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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellows? Teko's I Am Dan to Valley

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joined by for the first time in three episodes, my

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certified fantabulous co host men for Granted, Uson has agreed

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to sit down with me for more than a ten

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to twelve minutes, with which he can only stand me

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for at this moment, so I'm very much appreciative. We're

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gonna go through teams that we think are going to

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play better for the rest of this NBA season, that

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have maybe struggled out the gate or not met expectations.

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Then we'll wrap that up. We have like four or

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five teams there therefter that we're gonna ask questions on

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a handful of teams. Are will these teams play better

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because their possibilities? But we're not quite sure. But my

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first actual question is and the one that everyone's dying

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to know the answer to, mister Hughes, how.

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Speaker 2: The heck are you Have I told you about a

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Loha Friday? Have you mentioned that to you? No?

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Speaker 1: Why aren't you in a tank top? That sounds like

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a tank top?

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you why. Well, by the way, we're recording

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this on Friday. Every Friday, I'm a coffee drinker, not excessively,

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but on Fridays, I guess I should say on Thursday

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nights when I set the coffee maker, I use a

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different kind of coffee and it's a vanilla Macadamian at

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coffee that I've only ever had before when I was

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in Hawaii, and it conjures like a lot of good

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sense memories. Right, It's like it takes you there. It's

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a little different. It's a little treat every Friday, so

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we call it Aloha Friday around here. And that's what

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I've got in this cup right now, so I feel transported.

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And also the meter's running. You're two minutes into your ten,

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so get going.

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Speaker 1: Look, if that's not living, I don't know what is

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is there. Is it a psychological thing that you only

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make it one day a week, or is the coffee

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just so unbelievably expensive that it makes more sense to

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go just the way.

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Speaker 2: It's not like fancy coffee at all. You just buy

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it on Amazon like anything else. It's it is psychological

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and it like I've been doing it since July and

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it really does work because like on Friday morning when

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I get up and it's just like I gotta go

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talk to Dan for at least ten minutes today, and

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I'm really just down about it. I think, like, oh,

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when I walk downstairs, though, I'm gonna smell it and

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I'm gonna get that a low hot Friday coffee. And

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it's real, like, you know, you gotta do these little things.

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You know it takes. You'd be surprised the impact that

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can have.

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Speaker 1: I do the same thing since I cut down my

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own caffeine, even though no one probably believes me. With

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my energy drink, I have a favorite flavor, but now

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I don't really drink energy drinks as much. It's like

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when I get to have that sour Patch RedBerry energy

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drink that I allow myself, Like, by the way, I

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was like having like maybe two to four of those

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a day at one point.

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Speaker 2: That's too much. That's too much.

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Speaker 1: Some people. I'm still here, some people are some people

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are saying it's not enough, you might argue, But now

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when I have it like once or twice a week,

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it's just like, I look so and it's just you're

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still consuming other caffeine that you like. But because it's

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this one thing, I'm just enameter by it. However, also

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related to this, I did sign on today, and I

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brought a lot of energy. I yelled your name, and

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you either didn't hear me or didn't have it out.

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You just said nothing. And I was just like, Wow,

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he really isn't He's not about this today?

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Speaker 2: So I, you know, I could come up with any

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number of excuses like technically related, or I was too

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into my coffee cup, or you know, I just well,

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I was like, well, do you really want to start

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the ten minutes now?

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Speaker 1: Dan?

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Speaker 2: Is that you want to waste it on this? I

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say that after we talked for an hour and ten

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minutes off air, which should just be paywalled. I don't

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think there was a basketball discussion had, but whatever.

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Speaker 1: There I don't I sometimes wonder if people would want

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to know that stuff because it's nothing. It's nothing that's

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ever controversial, but it's the subject matter might be a letdown.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I doubt anybody would be interested, but you know,

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at least let them pay money to find out they're

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not interested.

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Speaker 1: You know, well, we should probably talk about basketball now,

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I guess would be a pretty good decision. First up,

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the Denver Nuggets grant this. Now we're into the teams

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that we think are going to be better for the

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rest of the year, So why is this team going

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to be better?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just and I guess we should

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have said at the outset, these teams will be a

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very different strata of the league, Like there'll be some

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bad ones with some good ones and some in between.

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So it's just we're just saying like it's it's gonna

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be brighter, days are ahead to whatever that means relative

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to the specific team. So for Denver, it's kind of

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just like, well, this is a by low right, Like

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they're you know, they're they've won a title in recent memory, Nicole,

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this is really where it starts. And Nicole Yogic is

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the best player on planet Earth and he's playing better

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in a lot of respects than he ever has, and

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guys like that to the extent there are any uh,

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just generational all timers. It's just kind of like he's

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just not gonna let this team do this forever. And

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it's like, well, what else do you want him to do?

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Because we've all seen the on off splits to where

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you know, this team is sub Wizards without him on

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the floor, and the offense is like beyond elite. When

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he's out there, so he can't control what's happening when

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he isn't in the game. I don't know. I just

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have like this misguided belief that if he is who

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we know him to be, like, the Nuggets can't just

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be like a hanging around five hundred team for much longer.

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So a couple things like Aaron Gordon missed time he's back,

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Jamal Murray has shot thirty percent on wide open threes.

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And even if you think it's not great, not great,

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especially without defenders in your general area, even if you're

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convinced that, like you know, physically, he doesn't look the same.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: There's also I don't know if you've seen any of this,

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but maybe this is a week old now, but there

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are stuff circulating that always sitting outside the huddle during

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timeouts and he just looks pissed off and all this

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team's falling apart. I never know how much stock to

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put in that kind of like cherry picked, you know, clips.

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But anyway, so if you're convinced that like that's all,

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you know, ominous, I still think he's going to make

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more than one out of fewer. You know, he's making

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fewer than one out of three wide open threes, Like,

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that's it's gonna happen. He's gonna get better. I don't

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think the on off splits can stay quite this extreme.

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The half court defense is actually like fine, It's just like,

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you know, some of the transition stuff isn't great, and

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they have all these young guys that are playing more so,

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if anybody can be like coached to get back once

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in a while, it's guys that have fresher, younger legs.

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So couple all that with the schedule actually has been

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pretty tough. It's one of the ten toughest schedules in

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the league. To this point. You have Denver's like well

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known home court advantage, so you pick up a few

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wins from there that you might not otherwise assign to

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teams that we'll talk about going forward. But does that

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make sense, It's kind of there's some numbers in it,

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there's some I Jokic is Jokic. There's just this isn't

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where Denver's gonna finish the season. I don't think now

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if you get to a point where there is a

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real locker room fracture or Mike Mallon's voice gets tuned

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out or something like that. Then different conversation. But I

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just think you have so many factors pointing to this

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team isn't gonna be kind of so ho hum, so

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like uninspired hiring for you know, going forward the rest

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of the season.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I think there's real concern here. When I

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was doing report card grades at the quarter season mark

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for bleacher Board, I gave them I think a D

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or a D plus. And I think there's probably been

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the extremists who think that they need to make a trade.

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I can't get behind because one, I just I don't

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know what you're You're not getting better by trading Michael

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Porter Junior. It's not happening. And you're like, you're not

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trading Gordon, Like you can't trade Gordon or Murray. I

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just could trade Jokich. There might be a couple teams.

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Speaker 2: That I mean, you could trade Gordon right of.

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Speaker 1: The isn't he ineligible to be traded?

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Speaker 2: Oh? You know you're right. No, you're right, you're right,

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you're right, you're right.

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Speaker 1: So my whole thing, though, is I don't think And

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then you also look at some of the data. Do

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you know what they're starting lineups? Net rating is grant

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plus a million, it's plus sixteen point six. So it's

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just it's working, and the defense has like slipped a

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little bit. I think Aaron Gordon, he's missed time. By

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the way, other teams this, I'm not assigning this to you.

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Other teams have had players miss games with injuries, and

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so I've seen a lot of Nuggets fan like, well,

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Gordon missed that extensive it matters, but like that's not

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the excuse. I do think he's been a little bit

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worse on defense this year, or at least noticeably worse,

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and that's hurt them. It does feel like objectively when

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you're watching them, I don't know, the half court defense

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is fine. This team feels more screenable. I don't know

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how much that has to do with maybe some of

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the effort that's being exerted on the offensive end for

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some of these guys. The defense of rebounding has been

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all over the place too, So I think there are

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real concerns. But you have Nicola Jokic. I think Jamal

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Murray's probably at the nadear of his on court value, right,

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and so do you really think that he's going to

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get worse from here? No, it's probably going to look

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up at some point, and he's never been someone who

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I know. Now we're like twenty plus games of the season,

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so it's more concerning. He's always been inconsistent, even at

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his best, and it's like he's never just come into

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the season like gangbusters, in part because he's usually coming

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off an injury. Yeah, so I think it's fair to

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be concerned. But you look at this team, and as

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we're recording this, they're hovering around. I mean, you could

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hover around play in territory if you're the third seed

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in the Western Conference at this point. But I think

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they are going to be one of the six best

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teams in the Western Conference when all is said and done,

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and I think it would be I think Calvin Booth

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whether this is coming down from ownership with Josh Cronkey,

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I think we are now seeing kind of the fallout

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from years is worth of poor asset management. Yeah, players

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you already had, and however, I still think this team

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is pretty damn good. Are they as good as they

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should be when you have a top ten NBA player

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of all time in his prime? Probably not, but they're

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still gonna be really good.

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Speaker 2: This is gonna get us into a trend of making

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this a longer episode than we intended. But like, there

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are no numbers for this, But do you think there's

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anything to the idea that like Jokich is so good

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and so obviously able to just make sure his team

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dominates when he's on the floor that it almost like

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and you know, again, the easier explanation is, well, Denver

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just doesn't have enough quality depth and that's why the

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on off splits are so insane. But I wonder if

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just like he's it's almost like they're a victim of

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how good he is to where when he's off the floor,

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it's just like nobody knows what to do because it's like, well,

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the dad's not out here like telling us what to

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do and where to go and like our safety blanket

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or whatever. It's just it almost like has a negative

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effect on the Nuggets who play that when they're in

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the game without him.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think you're right, But I also think

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that speaks to the roster that they've assembled to where

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who do you look at on this team and say, well,

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they can be really good independent of Yokic, And so

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it's not like he that Jokic is messed up the

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way that these guys can be maximized. It's that they've

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only surrounded him predominantly with guys who are maximized by him.

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And I think that, yeah, the issue that was coming

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to bear. But the way you phrased it is perfect.

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It's just we're on supervised dads, right. But the other

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thing you could talk about too is I understand he's

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your most important player, and I would never invest real

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equity in a backup center. But like you've now kind

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of made a few decisions where like DeAndre Jordan is

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eighty seven years old and gets more minutes than ze Nagy,

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you've never taken the I guess people could say the

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Dario Sharrett signing was supposed to be a sign that

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they were taking it more seriously. That was never a

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sign that they were taking the backup fivest its more seriously.

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I mean, that's been a disaster. So I agree with

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what you're saying, it's just well, I will ask you

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you don't think this could be a matter of because

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the way he plays, like his true usage is through

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the roof when you're fracturing in playmaking, But you wouldn't

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consider him at least not by choice heliocentric.

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Speaker 2: No, he doesn't want to be. It's almost like you

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have to force him to do it and he's still great,

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Like big surprise, he's the best at it, Like when

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he asked to do a thing he doesn't want to do.

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I yeah, I think your explanation is probably right. Is

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that really what's happening is everybody just looks incredible when

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he's out there, and like Jamal Murray to answer your

262
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first question, is like supposed to be the guy that

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is like I can prop up second units and the

264
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thing that's probably closer to reality than some theory that

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Jokic is so good he makes everyone bad. Is that

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like the other guys just actually aren't that good, Like

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they're all you know, we rate everybody in his supporting

268
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cast a little higher than we should in terms of

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like you know, the Gordon's and mpjs and Murray's because

270
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they're only good when he's out there Like that. That's

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kind of the thing. The other thing, sorry, you want

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to it looks like you want to say something.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I was going to add to that, too,

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is is some of these players, let's look at Christian

275
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Brown done some more ball handling this year, Michael Porter

276
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Junior definitely more self sufficient on the offensive end. I

277
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would say that stuff still just doesn't scale right, like

278
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in minutes without Jokich, at least in terms. I actually

279
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,840
think Denver's come close to playing net even basketball, when

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Porter and Brown are on the court without Jokich. I

281
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think their net ratings like minus point five or somewhere

282
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around there. But if I remember correctly, and I'm just

283
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gonna assume I due because I looked at it recently,

284
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the offense stretches in the fourth percentile, So like a

285
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lot of that is like the defensive returns. It's just interesting.

286
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I don't think that has anything to do with Jokic,

287
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but it's even when you think, like even when we

288
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like Jamal Murray, his peak is hit some of the

289
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biggest shots in postseason history, and even those players at

290
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their peak when you think they might be doing more

291
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on their own and Brown and I think Porter Junior

292
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are good examples, it doesn't scale the same way to

293
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,799
the minute tech Nicole Yokic is off the floor.

294
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Speaker 2: Can I make one more Denver point before we move on?

295
00:13:17,279 --> 00:13:21,519
We've probably already gone long. I if I hear one

296
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more how many games do the Nuggets need to win

297
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for Jokic to win MVP, or like how low can

298
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they finish? And still would would you? Where do you

299
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disqualify him? What if they make what if they are

300
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a playing team, can Yokich win MVP? Yeah? Yeah he can't.

301
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He should and I hope he does. Look at what

302
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,840
he does. So if you look if the Nuggets are

303
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,879
a playing team and they continue to play like the

304
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best team in the league when Jokic is on the floor,

305
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you're penalizing him in the MVP race for something that

306
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,279
is by definition out of his control if he isn't

307
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in the game, and that and those minutes are the

308
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reason Denver finishes eighth, tenth, what, sixth, whatever. I can't

309
00:14:04,519 --> 00:14:08,039
listen to that because, like, okay, if SGA is right there,

310
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like in terms of impact and you've got to break

311
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,360
the tie somehow and the thunder wins sixty five games

312
00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:17,399
and the Nuggets win forty five, maybe I get it.

313
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But if Jokic continues to so clearly be the biggest

314
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,840
driver of success when he's in the game, you have

315
00:14:23,879 --> 00:14:25,840
to give him MVP. I don't care if the Nuggets

316
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,480
win thirty games, if he's the best player. Now if

317
00:14:29,639 --> 00:14:31,879
then come up with a different award. If you're deciding

318
00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:34,519
that MVP depends upon what happens when the guy isn't

319
00:14:34,559 --> 00:14:36,960
in the game. If you need, if you need to

320
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,759
have valuable mean team success, then give that to whoever

321
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,679
is on the best team in the league, Give best player,

322
00:14:42,679 --> 00:14:45,320
best team, whatever. Come up with a different award that

323
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,519
says to the best individual basketball player on planet Earth

324
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is for that season, because that's gonna be Jokics, whether

325
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the Nuggets win thirty games or sixty and until the

326
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,720
on off splits changed, and look, I'm not forget the split.

327
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That's that's an imprecise term. If Denver continues to be

328
00:15:02,519 --> 00:15:06,720
incredible when he's on the floor and it's because of him,

329
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,879
he's MVP. I don't care what happens. I don't care

330
00:15:10,919 --> 00:15:13,320
about the fourth percentile offense when he's off the floor.

331
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He's not in charge of that. Does that make sense?

332
00:15:15,559 --> 00:15:18,039
Like I feel like that's just an insane thing. That's

333
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,240
we're discussing this all the time. All the talking heads

334
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,159
can't shut up about how many games they have to win.

335
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,399
Speaker 1: I don't care, well, so how many games do you

336
00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:25,440
think they have to win so.

337
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:27,840
Speaker 2: Fifty one.

338
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Speaker 1: Here's my issue with your argument is that when you

339
00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:34,840
kind of look at other all time greats, Michael Jordan

340
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,159
would have had his soul separate itself from his body

341
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,960
and nudge the players during his minutes to play better.

342
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,799
And the fact that Jokic hasn't pushed that type of

343
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,480
button yet to where his spirit can still be on

344
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,519
the court when he's not there, it just makes me

345
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wonder if you can build a title team around him

346
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as your best player. Anyway, I just feel like.

347
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Speaker 2: I was ready to jump down your throat until I realize, Okay, great,

348
00:15:56,519 --> 00:15:57,399
he's not serious.

349
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,519
Speaker 1: Look I I I get what you're I agree with

350
00:16:01,559 --> 00:16:05,600
everything you're saying. I do actually wonder though, because voters

351
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,440
do tend to think differently, and I do wonder if

352
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,240
we've evolved passed that because we saw, like in my head,

353
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I have it as it becomes a discussion for the

354
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how the voting is going to turn out, But there

355
00:16:16,519 --> 00:16:19,360
is the debate. Nobody can catch him at this point

356
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,480
like in the voting. Maybe they can because of context,

357
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but as of right now, I don't. I'm trying to

358
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,639
think and it probably hasn't been since Lebron was the

359
00:16:27,639 --> 00:16:31,039
best player in the NBA. I really don't think I

360
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,399
can remember a time where there's been a larger gap

361
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,960
between the best player in the world and number two.

362
00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:39,360
I don't care whether you think it's Shay, I don't

363
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,480
care whether you think it's Gianness. I don't care whether

364
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:44,279
you think it's Luca like that you want to The

365
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,879
Luca thing is the one that I think we might

366
00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:48,480
receive the most pushedback for in any given season. Do

367
00:16:48,519 --> 00:16:50,759
I think Luca could be better than Nicole Jokic, Sure

368
00:16:50,799 --> 00:16:53,000
it's up for debate, But how often are we talking

369
00:16:53,039 --> 00:16:56,120
about that Luca's effort that night just wasn't there, or

370
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,039
he heard his team on defense, or he was complaining

371
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,879
too much, Like it's just it's there's this, there's this,

372
00:17:02,159 --> 00:17:05,559
a gap exists. Can Luca can absolutely win MVP like

373
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,640
at some point and I think that he's one of

374
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,000
the five best players in basketball because of right now,

375
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,759
there's I think there's a real chasm between Nicole Jokic

376
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,160
and the field, and I don't when the last time

377
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:16,759
that happened.

378
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,599
Speaker 2: And that's not to take any I totally, it's not

379
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,000
to take anything away from I think Sga is really

380
00:17:22,039 --> 00:17:25,160
the guy that is just like I don't know, pick

381
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,319
a random year in the last twenty five and like, well,

382
00:17:28,599 --> 00:17:31,720
you're dealing with Lebron and Steph and like he's an

383
00:17:31,839 --> 00:17:35,200
MVP caliber player, as is Luca, as is like even

384
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,640
Tatum the throw Jannis whatever, Jannis has won it, like

385
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,480
Ronagner before Bee was right there. This will go down

386
00:17:43,519 --> 00:17:45,839
to the hear Fronz Bogner was robbed of MP But

387
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,519
Yoki is just just at a level that's higher, right,

388
00:17:49,599 --> 00:17:51,799
Like that's that's what we're saying. And I think you

389
00:17:51,799 --> 00:17:54,839
you make the right distinction. The discussion about how many

390
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,799
games do the Nuggets need to win or whatever for

391
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,079
Yokics to win MVP. You you can have that discussion

392
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,200
if you're talking about will he You can't have it

393
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,920
if you're talking about should he? Right, like, because if

394
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,839
you're saying will he win it, you're trying to predict

395
00:18:09,839 --> 00:18:11,599
what voters are going to fixate on and who the

396
00:18:11,599 --> 00:18:14,720
fuck knows what like some what they're going to care about,

397
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:18,079
or how little they're going to actually critically think about

398
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,559
what Yoka is doing and how like divisible it is

399
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:24,359
from what the rest of his team is doing so

400
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,400
will he win it? Okay, fine, have the conversation about

401
00:18:28,279 --> 00:18:31,000
where they need to finish, because that's just pricing in

402
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,359
stupid analysis of what MVP is. But should he That

403
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,319
discussion's over unless he goes down tomorrow and doesn't play

404
00:18:39,319 --> 00:18:40,440
the rest of the year. Then you can make the

405
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,599
case he should not because he's played twenty five games

406
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,559
or whatever it is. But you can't have the how

407
00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:47,160
many games do they need to win? If you're talking

408
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,359
about should he win MVP or does he deserve it?

409
00:18:49,519 --> 00:18:51,920
That's like that's a good distinction to make.

410
00:18:52,079 --> 00:18:54,160
Speaker 1: And isn't I hate doing it this way, but if

411
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,160
you're trying to argue that even the way we're framing

412
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,599
it would be inaccurate, wouldn't it be? If you put

413
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:01,920
which player do I want to if I'm not even

414
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,400
gonna pickup player so I don't want to make them mad.

415
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,279
But if you put Nikole Jokic on any of the

416
00:19:05,279 --> 00:19:07,880
players we just mentioned teams instead of them, and then

417
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,400
you flipped it, which team is going to be better?

418
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,640
It is the team with Nicole Jokic every single time.

419
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,920
Because you want to know why all of the players

420
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,240
we just mentioned have better supporting casts right, Like, maybe

421
00:19:18,319 --> 00:19:20,079
I guess you could make the case that Gianniss is

422
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,079
all over the place right now. But Nicole Jokic on

423
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,079
the Bucks, the Bucks are better than they are right now,

424
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,000
so that's not up for debate. To me, we have

425
00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:30,559
other teams to talk about.

426
00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:32,400
Speaker 2: We're not going to get to some of them at

427
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:33,480
this rate. That's all right.

428
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 1: Next up, Oh, look at that Giannis and the Bucks.

429
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,160
Tell me why the Bucks are actually Can you also

430
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,000
tell me why buck stands were mad that I gave

431
00:19:42,039 --> 00:19:44,519
them a C minus as their report card for the season.

432
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,559
I'm genuinely wondering I didn't read enough of it because

433
00:19:47,599 --> 00:19:49,480
no one gets into reasons. They just tell you you're wrong.

434
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,000
I thought I was being pretty generous. They've turned things

435
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,640
around since they dropped to two and eight, But why

436
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,559
are they going to be better? And why why do

437
00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:57,319
their fans hate me?

438
00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:00,759
Speaker 2: I mean the second answer, the second question is because

439
00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:02,599
you said a not nice thing. Are you give them

440
00:20:02,599 --> 00:20:05,319
a slightly below average grade after they were one of

441
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,599
the most disappointing teams to start the season. I mean,

442
00:20:08,039 --> 00:20:09,920
so they were on a little bit of a heater

443
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,720
before Chris Middleton came back and in his first three games,

444
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,240
even though the loss against Boston he was a he

445
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,039
had a positive plus minus, and then the plus sixteen

446
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,359
the next game, plus four the next game without him

447
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,960
shooting in all that well. So I'm starting to wonder

448
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,680
if it's just like, is Chris Middleton just the key

449
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,400
to all of this? And I mean maybe the answer

450
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,440
is yes, which makes the follow up a question like

451
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:33,519
how do you make sure he's around? Like how do

452
00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:35,799
you make sure he can be on the floor, because

453
00:20:35,799 --> 00:20:38,200
that's been the issue. I don't know, this is just

454
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,000
another by low right, Like even though the last what

455
00:20:41,319 --> 00:20:45,839
three weeks they've been like very good, I think like

456
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,920
it's still a flawed team. They're still old, they still

457
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,039
are generally getting out athleted like at most positions, they

458
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:55,920
don't get back enough, like Brook Lopez seems somewhat diminished.

459
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:57,960
There's all that stuff, But like I don't know for

460
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,039
every one of those you got, You've got Giannis, You've

461
00:21:01,039 --> 00:21:04,039
got Dame. That's like it's just they're not what are

462
00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:06,759
they twelve and ten as we're recording this, or thirteen

463
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:10,000
and eleven. This is just a team that I think,

464
00:21:10,039 --> 00:21:12,200
at least offensively, is going to be like a complete

465
00:21:12,599 --> 00:21:15,680
like load to handle defensively some of the athleticism stuff

466
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,160
and transition defenses if he but it's a little bit

467
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,279
like the Denver case minus minus, Like I don't know,

468
00:21:22,279 --> 00:21:25,359
I guess like for Denver it's like Jamal Murray should

469
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,759
be better. Maybe maybe for the Bucks, the Corolaria's Middleton

470
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:31,000
will just be out there more now and that just

471
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,039
raises them a level.

472
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm with you, and they have so

473
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,559
since they fell to it was two and eight, right,

474
00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:39,720
that's what they dropped to at one point. The Bucks

475
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:43,920
are seventh in point scored per possession and fifteenth in

476
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,000
points allowed per possession, which I think dovetails with what

477
00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:49,279
you're saying that the offense was just it was always

478
00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:51,680
going to figure itself out. And they've gotten Bobby Porter's

479
00:21:51,759 --> 00:21:54,759
Junior's hit more. Bobby Portish juniors hit more shots. Gary

480
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:57,279
Trent Junior has been better in his new role, so

481
00:21:57,319 --> 00:21:59,640
that's gonna help me. Chris Middleton, I know he's injured

482
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,359
a lot, but like do people do forget that he's

483
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,279
just like some sort of he's a playoff killer, like

484
00:22:03,279 --> 00:22:04,960
that dude in the playoffs is so like during the

485
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,160
regular season. Yeah, he's valuable, and I think it was.

486
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,519
John Schumann of NBA dot Com pointed this out. No

487
00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:13,599
one knows how to get Giannis the ball on this

488
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,000
team better than Chris Middleton, and so there's something to

489
00:22:16,039 --> 00:22:18,880
that effect where it's okay. The offense is I think

490
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,960
without Chris Middleton they could have a top ten offense,

491
00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:24,480
like top seven offense, whatever. But you add Chris Middleton

492
00:22:24,519 --> 00:22:26,160
and then the honest dynamic into the fold, and like

493
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:27,920
now you can reach levels to where you look like

494
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,039
the second or third best offense in the league for

495
00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:33,119
longer stretches. I just wonder what's gonna happen with the defense.

496
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,039
I think Brook Lopez still as a rim protector totally awesome.

497
00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:40,119
Mostly after that, there's been some slippers from Giannis defensively.

498
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,000
I did write that maybe that's what Buck fans are

499
00:22:42,079 --> 00:22:44,279
pushing back against. I don't know how much of that.

500
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,000
I do feel like he could have said the same

501
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,160
thing last year, but this year specifically, his workload was

502
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,920
harder as a self creator. When Chris Middleton's out he

503
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,480
comes back, that should make his life easier on offense.

504
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,119
I have a lot of faith in this team still,

505
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,400
and part of that might just be Okay, Look, the

506
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,079
Eastern Conference is if you're you know, twelve, that just

507
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,720
means that you're like three games out of first place,

508
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:05,839
or I shouldn't say that because the Cavs and Celtics exists,

509
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,480
you're three games out of third place or whatever. I don't.

510
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,519
I just wonder if they can get to a point

511
00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:14,160
to where we look at the defense and say that's

512
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,519
a decidedly above average defensive team or a majority of

513
00:23:17,559 --> 00:23:19,720
the game. That's where I have the question, and I

514
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,599
think they're almost I feel like they are gonna end

515
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,480
up continuing. Did you watch the the NBA Cup game

516
00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:28,559
against the Magic who had neither Franz nor Pallo. They

517
00:23:28,759 --> 00:23:30,480
just made it way harder than it needed to.

518
00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 2: They really they they excel at that.

519
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: That is I really do think that's gonna continue because

520
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,480
I think there's gonna be a lot of you know,

521
00:23:38,599 --> 00:23:41,240
even if it's not transition, guys are getting back, but

522
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,160
they still kind of opponents are looking to get They

523
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,759
still get out in transition a bunch against Milwaukee. There's

524
00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:49,119
gonna be ball containment stuff, especially in certain lineups. I

525
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,480
like this team is I'm I'm not gonna say I

526
00:23:52,519 --> 00:23:54,240
think I declared them the third one of the three

527
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,839
best teams in the Easy League end of the season.

528
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,079
I would walk that back off, but I think they're

529
00:23:58,079 --> 00:24:00,759
absolutely gonna finish with the top five record in the East.

530
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I feel good about that. I mean yeah,

531
00:24:04,039 --> 00:24:06,960
I just think like since since we're trying to be

532
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,000
measured about this, like I worry about Lillard as someone

533
00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:12,680
that has to be on the floor. All that's we're

534
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,000
talking playoffs now, not whether it'll get better. But like,

535
00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:17,920
isn't just having him out there as like something to

536
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,079
pick at just gonna be an issue? Just there's no

537
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,839
fixing that you can hide him, I guess, but teams

538
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,079
are so sophisticated now he's gonna get called up and

539
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:27,720
force the Bucks to do a bunch of pre switching

540
00:24:27,799 --> 00:24:30,519
or whatever. Like that's just like a sore spot that's

541
00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:32,240
gonna be there, so you're just gonna have to work

542
00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:34,680
around that. That falls on Lopez, that falls on Giannis

543
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,079
being better as like a swoop in and block shots

544
00:24:37,079 --> 00:24:39,480
from the help side type of thing. But like that's

545
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,279
not I don't think that's going away, And don't I

546
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:43,960
imagine Middleton's probably gonna get you know, challenged a fair

547
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,480
amount until he proves that he's like fit enough to

548
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:47,880
really be a stopper.

549
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 1: I think having so like so, they're in this weird

550
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,680
situation where teams probably want to get out and transition

551
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,160
against them because they're just not overall athletic. But then

552
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,039
if you get into the half court, you just have

553
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,000
multiple spots to pick out teams that are gonna be

554
00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:04,400
good at capitalizing on mismatches or just going after weak

555
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,720
points that could really wind up hurting them. I do

556
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,279
wonder though, and this is you know, this podcast is

557
00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:14,720
coming out after the unofficial official start of trade season

558
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,000
officially unofficial or unofficially official, unofficially official start of trade season,

559
00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:22,200
like can they do you view this as a team

560
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,200
that can still be good enough to where it's everything

561
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,440
everyone was talking about, not everyone but was saying, well,

562
00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:29,559
Yannis requested trade and they have to worry about him

563
00:25:29,559 --> 00:25:32,119
asking for out eventually. I still view this team as

564
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,759
that discourse has subsided. But I think when you're scaling ahead,

565
00:25:35,799 --> 00:25:39,160
there could maybe be hesitance from the Bucks perspective to

566
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,839
really go after it this year, especially when you're looking

567
00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:45,759
at Middleton has a player option. Brook Lopez is going

568
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:47,480
to be a free agent. But I view them as

569
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,119
a team as you have that Bobby Portis salary, you

570
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,480
even have the Pat Connton salary. You can't aggregate as

571
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,200
of right now unless you're shedding a ton of salary

572
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,599
to dip beneath the second apron like their twenty thirty

573
00:25:57,599 --> 00:25:59,240
one first round pick should just absolutely be on the

574
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,880
table for me. And who's the best wing defender that

575
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,559
you could get for that? I don't know the answer.

576
00:26:06,599 --> 00:26:08,039
I want to make that clear. And we're also talking

577
00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:10,640
about Bobby Portters makes what does he make like twelve

578
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,119
million thirteen million, so you're tied to that salary range.

579
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,200
But this is a team that I think is I

580
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,880
do mean it as a compliment, even it's not coming

581
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,440
off that way. I still think they're good enough that

582
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,599
that scenario needs to be on the table.

583
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,079
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think much more. Yeah. I got real

584
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,480
worried about the honest stuff when things were very bleak

585
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:29,720
for this team. But I think now, yeah, you're more

586
00:26:29,759 --> 00:26:32,799
thinking about and maybe this always should have been sort

587
00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:34,359
of the framing of it, Like you still need to

588
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,440
just say we have gi honest, we spent all this

589
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,240
for Dame. We're a little bit poc committed like that

590
00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:39,559
pick needs to be available.

591
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just don't. I'm trying to think as of

592
00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:45,279
right now, scrambling in my brain of who would be

593
00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:48,119
the best player they could get for that pick, plus

594
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,160
I would just use I mean, then you get into

595
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,440
the situation of, Okay, well now you're trading your primary

596
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,720
backup big but I'm just thinking perimeter defense, perimeter defense

597
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,640
at this point, and Bobby Portters makes He's at twelve

598
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,400
point five million, and I just don't know of I'm

599
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,359
like trying, there's players that would fix it, but in

600
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,000
terms of them being available, and you're also not even

601
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,200
in the Dorian Finny Smith sweepstakes because of the way

602
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,519
that the salary accuation works.

603
00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 2: So it's so funny that that was the name I

604
00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:13,279
was going to come up with. But I was like,

605
00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:15,400
I'm not sure I should know how much Finny Smith

606
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,759
makes since he's going to be in every trade discussion.

607
00:27:17,799 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: But I even thought would be interesting, just kind of

608
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,240
I know he's smaller, but you could just load up

609
00:27:22,279 --> 00:27:25,039
on like size that could theoretically space the floor. Is

610
00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:27,759
Isaiah Stewart for this team with too much money at

611
00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:31,279
fifteen million? So but I even if you like, could

612
00:27:31,319 --> 00:27:33,559
we just go get them? I've been campaigning for Io

613
00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:35,000
dis Soon MoU. There's got to be I'm not giving

614
00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:37,599
my twenty thirty one pick for him, but y'at pack conting,

615
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,720
Go get Io di Soon MoU. And there's some ball containment,

616
00:27:39,839 --> 00:27:42,680
right Yeah. Our next team is going to be the

617
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,880
Mina Soda Timberwolves. Mister Hughes, why are they going to

618
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:48,279
be better?

619
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: Because public callouts when done with a smile work, Anthony Edwards?

620
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: Can I interrupt?

621
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: Yes?

622
00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:57,559
Speaker 1: Did you did we already have this discussion or did

623
00:27:57,599 --> 00:28:02,000
you want? Like you know, when sometimes you read comments, yeah, yeah, yeah,

624
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,839
and it feels like they're taking out of context. But

625
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:06,400
even when you read the full quote, not like Aunt

626
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:09,839
was act this, he said this, It comes off so

627
00:28:10,079 --> 00:28:13,039
much differently when you watch the video of him because

628
00:28:13,079 --> 00:28:15,160
you said it with a it was like murder with

629
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:15,799
a smile.

630
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,799
Speaker 2: Yep, And well and it was just like I don't know,

631
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,160
sometimes you'd say to to like let someone off the

632
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,119
hook for comments like that, it's always coming from a

633
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,759
good place, like it clearly was coming from a good

634
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:30,640
place like he wasn't. It wasn't even like it was

635
00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:34,000
benigns the wrong word it was like as good natured

636
00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:37,400
a call out as there's ever been, because he you know,

637
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,680
he didn't he was literally smiling like almost the whole

638
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,160
time he was giving he was saying what he said

639
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:45,960
about we can't talk to each other, we got a

640
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,680
bunch of kids, like all that stuff. Some somehow, I

641
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,319
mean that the discrepancy between how that read and what

642
00:28:51,359 --> 00:28:54,720
it what came across watching him say it was is

643
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:56,759
like as big as there's ever been in a in

644
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:59,319
a money quote like that that's kind of been in

645
00:28:59,359 --> 00:28:59,960
the news cycle.

646
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: So there was a reward for like the MVP of

647
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,000
disemboweling your team. He would get it because even did

648
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,920
you see how he made a joke about Julius Randad

649
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,079
not playing defense, He would basically like it was nice

650
00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:15,279
to see Julius play defense for a change, And Julius

651
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:17,319
was right next to him and laughed. And I'm like,

652
00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:21,279
there's more than an undercurrent of truth to that, And

653
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,519
just like he knows how to probably because of what

654
00:29:23,559 --> 00:29:26,160
he's saying behind the scenes and he does as a

655
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,440
basketball leader, seems to very much uplift the way he

656
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:33,039
used to interact with Kat specifically, like I thought that

657
00:29:33,119 --> 00:29:34,880
was fantastic, So there needs to be some sort of

658
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,200
a I know we have there's probably like a teammate award,

659
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,359
but we need something else, just like who can say

660
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,720
the shit that's a tough truth, but like it's not

661
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:45,599
gonna come off like that. It's all it's it's.

662
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: Like, uh, I mean, he just his demeanor just makes

663
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,519
the medicine go down smooth like it because he says

664
00:29:51,519 --> 00:29:53,799
what needs to be said, but does it. I don't know.

665
00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:55,920
It's there's just like an inherent quality that he has

666
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,039
because it's since.

667
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: Sugar Mary Poppins was thinking him out, is that, Yeah, that's.

668
00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:02,799
Speaker 2: What it is. He's a spoonful like it just makes

669
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:06,279
it it's easy to digest. And it's like, one, he's

670
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:08,880
not wrong, like when that kind of all that criticism

671
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,039
and the random point that's yes, that he's making factual statements,

672
00:30:13,519 --> 00:30:15,440
but you I think you only get away with that

673
00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:18,160
if one, like you said, he's saying all the same

674
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,039
stuff you know off camera or like off mike, and

675
00:30:22,039 --> 00:30:26,480
and probably more right like and and just how he

676
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:29,160
must be. And this isn't like a shock because this

677
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,240
is like his whole image like just so likable, like

678
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,319
like guys cannot absorb that kind of criticism if it's

679
00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:37,000
coming from a source. They're like, I don't know, I

680
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,559
don't need to listen to this guy. I don't like him,

681
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,160
or if he's not leading by example too, like from anyway,

682
00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:42,920
this will probably blow up on our faces. It'll come

683
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,799
out that Anthony Edwards is like a terrible leader and

684
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:46,000
an awful person or whatever.

685
00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:48,559
Speaker 1: But they're just like, I mean, he's done some questionable

686
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:50,640
things independent of basketball.

687
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,799
Speaker 2: So sure, absolutely, but in this particular isolated that what

688
00:30:53,839 --> 00:30:56,279
we're you're talking about, let's confine it to that. It

689
00:30:56,359 --> 00:30:59,759
seems like this guy might just be a phenomenal leader,

690
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,079
Like at least early indications are that he's got some

691
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,680
qualities independent of like playing the sport that are really

692
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:06,319
hard to find.

693
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: And there's I can't believe. This is not why we're

694
00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:10,240
here to talk about this. I don't know why it's

695
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,440
turning into this. He also in shout out to the

696
00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:14,559
Dane Moore NBA show that I think he asked him

697
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:16,319
this question then I was listening to the podcast. They

698
00:31:16,359 --> 00:31:19,440
posted the audio clip. A lot of national media, like

699
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,319
they always ask if there are Wolves games about the

700
00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:24,119
uptick and three pointers, but I guess Dane phrased the

701
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,160
question differently. Well, I think they were facing Golden State,

702
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,119
and the answer Anthony Edwards gave was just like I'm

703
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,440
I'm summarizing here. He's like, yeah, I still want to

704
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,480
get to the fucking basket, like that's my bread and butter.

705
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,440
But I'm taking these threes because that's gonna open up

706
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,240
the floor for us and also just it makes it

707
00:31:40,319 --> 00:31:42,039
more of a threat off ball. And he said, that's

708
00:31:42,039 --> 00:31:43,400
gonna make it easier for me to get to the

709
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,359
basket at some point. And I just do you remember

710
00:31:45,359 --> 00:31:48,279
when the narrative was does he like basketball enough? Does

711
00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:51,279
he get it? And it's when it comes to basketball specifically,

712
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,000
this dude, he and like leadership with it. That's why

713
00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:58,160
I'm us. But everything about the game and being the

714
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,960
best player on a team. Yeah, there's been some weird,

715
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,920
not weird, but punch time moments where the decision making

716
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,559
has not been great from them. He can look over

717
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,279
taxed in some of those playmaking spots. He does just

718
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:08,720
get it.

719
00:32:09,079 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, So so we can move on and aside,

720
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,160
I mean, that's a lot of it. It's kind of

721
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,880
like the yogic thing. It's just easy to have faith

722
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,759
that some a team that has him is gonna sort

723
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:21,400
it out. And really they have, like because since since that,

724
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,440
and I think things were trending a little this way.

725
00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:25,519
So it's it's just nice to have that dividing line

726
00:32:25,559 --> 00:32:27,279
of like pre call out and post call out. But

727
00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:29,559
they've been the best defense in the league again since then,

728
00:32:30,079 --> 00:32:33,160
and they were at the time they were eight and ten,

729
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,200
they were twelve on defense, which normally that's not a

730
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:38,759
huge problem, but offensively they're still working the kinks out.

731
00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:41,319
So but like I think defensively going forward now, the

732
00:32:42,079 --> 00:32:44,559
Wolves are just gonna be like they're gonna finish in

733
00:32:44,599 --> 00:32:46,759
the top five. Right, You've got like okay See and

734
00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:49,039
Houston and Orlando that are just gonna be great. But

735
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:51,640
like I just I don't see a reason that Minnesota

736
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,559
can't be an elite defense. Again. They're not gonna run

737
00:32:53,559 --> 00:32:55,319
away with it because I think that's gonna be the

738
00:32:55,359 --> 00:32:58,559
Thunders thing this season, but they'll be good enough to

739
00:32:58,599 --> 00:33:01,680
where you don't need a top ten offense necessarily. Ideally

740
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,480
you want that if you're going to contend, but like

741
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,519
you can get away with the midpack offense if you're

742
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:08,240
gonna guard like that. The other side of it is,

743
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,960
I think there's reason to believe the offense can improve too,

744
00:33:11,119 --> 00:33:14,559
and and it might be uncomfortable, but like, well, the

745
00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:17,240
comfortable part is, I think Mike Conley clearly matters a ton,

746
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,160
even if individually his numbers aren't great, because there was

747
00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:22,680
I forget what the stats are. Okay, so here this

748
00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:25,319
is a little bit old. But like the four games

749
00:33:25,319 --> 00:33:27,400
he missed initially, all of which the Wolves lost, they

750
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,279
averaged one hundred and five. They scored one hundred and

751
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:32,160
five points, not rating, just put up one oh five

752
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:33,960
or fewer, and three of them. When he's been on

753
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,920
the floor this season, the Wolves score at a top

754
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,440
ten clip. So like, good enough, Conley's out there, We're okay. Now,

755
00:33:40,759 --> 00:33:43,240
this is somewhat similar to the Middleton situation, like how

756
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:45,319
do you make sure a guy with his mileage and

757
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:48,680
stuff is going to stay out there? Whatever? The other

758
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,799
thing is, I think I know I've been banging this

759
00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:52,640
drum for a long time, and maybe it feels like

760
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,440
out of touch or that I'm too stuck to this,

761
00:33:54,559 --> 00:33:56,799
but I think you just move Randall to the bench,

762
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,119
and I think you moved Devincenzo into the first unit

763
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,079
and gets to go back to doing what he did

764
00:34:02,079 --> 00:34:03,960
with the Knicks, which is run around and shoot threes

765
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,759
and not be saddled with playmaking duties. You open up

766
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:09,239
the floor that way, you put Randall on the second unit,

767
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,360
where you have Gnaw and you're gonna have nase Red.

768
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,440
So those three are you know, you're gonna get some

769
00:34:13,519 --> 00:34:16,559
offense out of those guys, and the ball stopping matters less.

770
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,639
I just the rand There's a couple guys this year.

771
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:23,199
Bennettict Maatheren's one, we may talk about him, and Randall's

772
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,760
another where I regret vacillating on like what I had

773
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,280
as pretty set opinions on them, like being sotold, like oh,

774
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,320
he's moving it quicker, like there was those stats with

775
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,280
the Knicks maybe last year or the year before, whereas,

776
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,800
oh his touch time is down, he's making Oh yeah,

777
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:38,400
I was, I was.

778
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,639
Speaker 1: I was spoon feeding you those bad boys.

779
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 2: Well it's and but like if the numbers say that,

780
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,000
it's like it's easy to be swayed. I regret being swayed.

781
00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:47,400
Julius Randall stops the ball. It's really hard to have

782
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,039
a like a smooth flowing offense with him. In the game.

783
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,599
That's not to say it's hard to have an effective offense,

784
00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:55,039
like we've seen proof that, Like, yeah, it can work

785
00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:58,039
in certain situations. I just think if the Wolves want

786
00:34:58,039 --> 00:35:00,360
to be the best offensive version of themselves, he has

787
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,079
to come off the bench, and you have to put

788
00:35:02,119 --> 00:35:04,679
another shooter in the first unit, because then maybe Aunt

789
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,000
does get downhill more and then maybe the floor is

790
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,840
space more and pick and rolls work better and Rudy

791
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,159
Gobert actually becomes useful offensively. Like there's that to me?

792
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:14,639
Tell me if is that too simple of a fix,

793
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,840
set aside the like the ego of it or whatever.

794
00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:21,119
Just like from a tactical perspective, why isn't Julius Randall

795
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:21,880
coming off the bench?

796
00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: I wonder if they're trying to insulate him defensively as

797
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:29,039
much as possible, because he's been I think, even by

798
00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:32,519
Julius Randalls standards not really that great this year. And

799
00:35:32,639 --> 00:35:34,920
I think a lot of people were harping on the

800
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,719
Wolves's demeanor in transition for a while or maybe lack thereof,

801
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,039
and there were some rough spots there. But as this

802
00:35:42,159 --> 00:35:44,840
takes in the entire season into account, they are first

803
00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:47,519
in points lout per possession after they miss a shot

804
00:35:47,679 --> 00:35:49,760
on the offensive end, And when you break it down

805
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,679
to twos and threes, their defensive rating is second after

806
00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:55,239
they miss a two, and it's second after they miss

807
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,599
a three. And so like, this team has the talent,

808
00:35:57,679 --> 00:35:59,039
but if you go, then you go and you dig

809
00:35:59,079 --> 00:36:01,280
into it and it's oh, teams just get out and

810
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,400
transition all the time when Julius Randall is on the court.

811
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: So how is that an argument for letting him continue

812
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:07,280
to start?

813
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying, how do you insulate him coming

814
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:10,800
off the bench defensively?

815
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: Is your idea?

816
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 1: Just well, then he's gonna face inferior offenses, so it

817
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:15,920
won't matter, yes, and.

818
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 2: You'll be you'll be in a better position during those

819
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,679
bench minutes because I think the starters will just be

820
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:22,800
better and the lead will be bigger. Like I just

821
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,599
like I don't understand, Like I don't know.

822
00:36:25,639 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: I I So that's actually an interesting point. I guess

823
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,760
my whole thing is Mike Conley is so weirdly important

824
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,360
to this team, and at his age, I guess do

825
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,320
you view that as something that then does it increase

826
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,159
or decrease their dependence on Mike Conley as someone to

827
00:36:45,199 --> 00:36:46,960
have the ball in his hands and like, because if

828
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,760
you're bringing him off the bench, they've actually just the

829
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,719
minutes that Conmley's played without Edwards this year, I think

830
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,679
the Wolves are like a plus nine per one hundred

831
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:54,880
then we get it done. So bringing Julius Randall off

832
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,719
the bench doesn't necessarily I guess, could it optimize minutes

833
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,119
without Anthony Edwards?

834
00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 2: I don't. My underlying theory is just I think randal

835
00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:08,119
Is has a negative effect in a lot of ways

836
00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:12,719
on the players that really matter, which is Edwards obviously

837
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,960
the spacing component of it, and honestly Devincenzo, because Devincenzo

838
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,280
I think, even though we love Naw he's awesome as

839
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,559
a second unit guy, I feel like he's having to

840
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:24,480
make plays and it's like that's not what he is,

841
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,599
I don't think, or at least that's not what he's

842
00:37:26,639 --> 00:37:28,679
best at. So if you put Devincenzo in a role

843
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,440
that really makes sense where you are running, you're just gunning,

844
00:37:31,519 --> 00:37:33,639
like catch and shoot as much as you want, fly

845
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,559
around shoot, you know, fifteen threes per hunter possessions. That

846
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:39,280
makes so much more sense to me in the first

847
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,000
unit than Randall, who just like yeah, you want playmaking,

848
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,760
but I don't want playmaking that has to come from

849
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,679
a dead stop like that just doesn't That doesn't help anybody.

850
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. I guess where I'm at

851
00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:52,840
is I just increasingly don't love the idea of Julius

852
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:54,320
Randall on this team, and so you're.

853
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,599
Speaker 2: I don't either. I'm trying to get him, minimizing him

854
00:37:56,639 --> 00:37:57,039
right now.

855
00:37:57,639 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: But that's why I so I'm just like seeing that

856
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,159
there's kind of good answer. I'm just wondering. So you

857
00:38:02,199 --> 00:38:05,440
think moving him to the bench is like the better

858
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:06,360
of two evils?

859
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,079
Speaker 2: I mean, well, what's the what is what's so your work?

860
00:38:12,119 --> 00:38:15,000
If we let's we've moved Randall to the bench other

861
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:17,119
so I think he would hate it. I think that

862
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:18,000
would be a problem.

863
00:38:18,079 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: I don't think that's what. I don't care you get paid.

864
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,599
Speaker 2: I don't care the wolves and also the counter that

865
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,400
is the wolves traded for him, I think because of

866
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,599
the financial side, I think that's clearer and clearer all

867
00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:30,280
the time. And so you're not this isn't someone that

868
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,679
you need to appease, I think is what I would say,

869
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,119
Like because he's he's a short timer, you're not I

870
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,320
just I don't think he's a guy they look at

871
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,039
as like, we really need to figure out how to

872
00:38:39,079 --> 00:38:40,440
make him part of the machine here.

873
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: I don't.

874
00:38:41,079 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: I think it's more like, how do we keep him

875
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,800
from like the making the gears grind.

876
00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:48,079
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm worried about is if he's in

877
00:38:48,119 --> 00:38:51,880
the starting lineup, yes, he's kind of inhibiting the best

878
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,480
version of that. And now if you get to closing

879
00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:55,880
lineup situations, it should be easier to say Julius Randall

880
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,280
doesn't need to be on the floor, especially if my

881
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,000
Comley's there and we've seen my Finch experiment a little

882
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:02,800
bit down the stretch. But now if you so, if

883
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,960
you dig into a lot of their lineups without Anthony Edwards,

884
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,320
which I assume that's a lot of the minutes that

885
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,199
Julius Randall's gonna be playing, that if he's coming off

886
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,159
the bench. None of the good lineups for the Timberwolves

887
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,000
include Julius Randall without Anthony Edwards, And so you're almost

888
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,719
tying this anchor to your bet, like your best defender

889
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,199
in Rudy Gobert, and even Jane McDaniels is out there

890
00:39:22,199 --> 00:39:23,800
for a ton of those minutes too, and then you

891
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,079
have enough offense with Conny and Edwards to Okay, we've

892
00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:29,360
decided that Julius Randall is just important to this team,

893
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,360
and I wonder if you bring him off the bench,

894
00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:37,920
if that exacerbates or complicates your situation? There? Does it?

895
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,679
Here's how I'll frame it. Does the starting lineup? Does

896
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,440
those top unit minutes improve enough to offset the damage

897
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,000
that could potentially be done by no longer having Julius

898
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:52,679
Randall inoculated by I'll say at least two or three

899
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,679
of your best five players at all times.

900
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 2: I think, especially on defense, it would be a problem.

901
00:39:58,559 --> 00:40:00,880
Like those second unit minutes if if you don't have Gobert,

902
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,280
maybe you don't even have you don't have Edwards, Deer McDaniels,

903
00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:07,800
The defense might be an issue, would be an issue,

904
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,920
but you're still going against the other teams less threatening

905
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,440
players generally speaking. One and two. I think in answer

906
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,920
your question, I at least I'm optimistic, and if I'm

907
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,360
the Wolves, I would certainly want to find out if

908
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,159
the gains the first unit would make could offset that,

909
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:27,400
because I I kind of lean towards it could because

910
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,920
you get something Devincenzo has just not been very good.

911
00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:32,559
I think you could get You're probably not gonna get

912
00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:36,320
Nick Stevincenzo again. That feels like the outlier I got closer.

913
00:40:37,039 --> 00:40:39,519
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, though, like Dante DiVincenzo still gets

914
00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:42,719
guarded like he's Nick Dante Divini. Yeah, right too, And.

915
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: What if really the focal point of all this should

916
00:40:46,559 --> 00:40:49,719
just be Edwards And like I think the three point

917
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,199
volume in accuracy has been one of the most impressive

918
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,599
individual developments of this season. I still think like if

919
00:40:56,639 --> 00:41:00,159
you could just open the floor for him, and now

920
00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:03,320
he's being guarded tight like good God, like he's gonna

921
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,239
get into the middle and it's just gonna be havoc.

922
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,719
Like I really think you should be fixated on what

923
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,880
can we do to make more productive and just make

924
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,800
it easier on him by letting him kind of go

925
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:13,880
back to some strengths.

926
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: I don't know.

927
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 2: I you gotta try it, I think. And so this

928
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,639
is all to say that's a reason the Wolves could

929
00:41:19,679 --> 00:41:22,239
be a lot better. Is there's a good chance that

930
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,119
this could get the offense like to a level that

931
00:41:25,159 --> 00:41:26,159
it hasn't been at yet.

932
00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:29,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just man, is there a team that would

933
00:41:29,519 --> 00:41:32,159
trade for Julius Randall. If you're just like even looking

934
00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:34,920
a wht like, could you get probably not? Could you

935
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,639
get like Javon Carter and Lonzo Ball from that? Even?

936
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,119
Could you get Vouch and Javon Carter? Would they just

937
00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:43,800
take Julius Randall for that, thinking, Oh, he's gonna opt out,

938
00:41:44,119 --> 00:41:45,880
so we're getting out of money a year sooner than

939
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:46,719
we would be for Vooch.

940
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know Randall's not alone in this trade.

941
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: Would you just trade Julius Randall in some sort of

942
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,920
like there have to be other money involved. But Patrick Williams,

943
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,440
if the Bulls are really looking to get off that

944
00:41:58,519 --> 00:42:00,599
deal the five and ninety, that's.

945
00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:02,159
Speaker 2: Enough on the Wolves, right, they're going to be better.

946
00:42:02,679 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: They're going to be better. But do you think that

947
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,239
they get there if they don't change the way that

948
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,639
they're using. I think they've already proven they can get there.

949
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think yes, And I think the

950
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,079
games could be like astronomical if they could get the

951
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:15,760
rotation optimized.

952
00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:20,079
Speaker 1: Our next team, they're going to be better, according to

953
00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:21,320
you the New York Yes.

954
00:42:21,599 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 2: Can Can I start this with a question because the

955
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,480
Knicks have been really good and they've been one of

956
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:25,960
the best.

957
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,199
Speaker 1: Off just did so. No, you may not ask another question.

958
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 2: One of the best offenses in the league. Are they

959
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:31,840
number one? They might be number.

960
00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 1: One still, I think Boston overtook them after their disaster

961
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:36,199
class against the.

962
00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:38,639
Speaker 2: Hawks the other Yeah, they did those oh Man by

963
00:42:38,679 --> 00:42:42,159
three tenths of a point per hundred. The question is

964
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:48,559
do you think getting the defense, which currently is ranked sixteenth,

965
00:42:48,679 --> 00:42:50,440
which isn't you know, terrible if you've got one of

966
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,400
the two best offenses in the league, Well, is it

967
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,880
as simple as a second big because the rim protection

968
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,239
is the issue. Cat's numbers have come down from like

969
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,519
one hundred percent allowed inside six feet to the high sixties.

970
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,960
Is it as simple as Mitchell Robinson or someone they

971
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,920
trade for moving Kat out of the back line anchor

972
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,280
role and onto like being essentially a wing defender again

973
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,599
like he was with Minnesota. You're not going to get

974
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:16,719
the Wolves defense. You don't have Gobert and you don't

975
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,000
have I mean he Actually you could make the case

976
00:43:19,039 --> 00:43:21,760
that if mckel bridges remembered how to guard, that you

977
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,760
have at least as good of a perimeter defense as

978
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,000
did do you So?

979
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:28,199
Speaker 1: I wanted to look this up because when you watch

980
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:33,360
Mcal Bridges now, it just feels like screens or his kryptonite,

981
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,079
which is a problem for someone like the defense world

982
00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:38,960
that he is. Yeah, he rakes in the fourth percent

983
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,320
tile of screen navigation this year, Isn't it like?

984
00:43:41,559 --> 00:43:46,039
Speaker 2: What if this is the anti Anthony Edwards shoots a

985
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:47,679
ton of threes and makes them all Now it's like

986
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,519
Bridges just can't guard anymore. What do you think what happened?

987
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 1: Do you think the power of friendship is actually complacency?

988
00:43:56,559 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: We really need to reassess. Should friends be on the

989
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,360
same team together? Do you need to hate your teammates

990
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,280
to play defense? Is that is that it?

991
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,519
Speaker 1: Let's go back to Michael Jordan, which is why Nicole

992
00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:08,039
Yogas can't win MVP? The answers, yes, yeah, there needs

993
00:44:08,039 --> 00:44:10,840
to be that. Nope, there needs to be that underlying animosity.

994
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,679
Speaker 2: If you don't fear your best player, where are you

995
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,559
going as a team? If you add a it? If

996
00:44:15,559 --> 00:44:18,519
Mitchell Robinson comes back, he's and like it's just your

997
00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:21,559
and now he's again not Gobert. But is that it is?

998
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,320
Does does having Kat not be your back line anchor?

999
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:25,920
Does that solve the k next defense?

1000
00:44:26,519 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: Uh? Okay, solve you know what I mean, it might

1001
00:44:30,679 --> 00:44:33,159
because then the McHale Bridges stuff isn't as damaging. So

1002
00:44:33,199 --> 00:44:35,000
here's the problem. And I know a lot of fans

1003
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,079
had pointed to their almost the averaging defense. If they

1004
00:44:38,119 --> 00:44:41,000
go up against a top twenty top twenty offense, grant

1005
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,639
not top ten. If you go up against the top

1006
00:44:43,639 --> 00:44:45,239
ten offense, you want to who has the worst defense

1007
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,559
in the league, the Knicks. Okay, if you do a

1008
00:44:48,679 --> 00:44:51,480
top twenty, so the middle ten and the top ten,

1009
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,360
they're still in the bottom five of point slot per possession.

1010
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,480
There's a talent issue here, and it's exacer a defensive

1011
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,320
talent issue. Excuse me, they have I have multiple week

1012
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,280
points that teams will prod at when you look at

1013
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,920
towns and you look at bruns In and now McHale

1014
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,800
Bridges has been included in that way too often, certainly

1015
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,840
more often than someone you gave up ninety seven first

1016
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,079
round picks for it should be. Here's I think, now,

1017
00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:17,719
here's where things get easier if you put that back

1018
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,079
line stopper in. Even if you're gonna pick a weak points,

1019
00:45:21,119 --> 00:45:23,320
now you know you have someone who doesn't need to

1020
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,039
be ogn and Obian covering the entire floor can help

1021
00:45:26,039 --> 00:45:31,199
you cover it. Getting that player while preserving your top

1022
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:35,960
two offense feels impossible. And because look quickly they might

1023
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:37,559
just have that player on the roster. It doesn't sound

1024
00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:40,440
like he's gonna be healthy before February, Mitchell Robinson, it

1025
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:43,519
comes at an offensive cost. And so what I've not

1026
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:45,199
that I've proposed because I don't know what I would

1027
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,800
do it if you just substituted in Robert Williams the

1028
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,480
third for Mitchell Robinson, and he's the guy playing alongside Kat.

1029
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,280
I have two questions for you. One do you think

1030
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:01,320
that that makes the offense still top two material? And two, like,

1031
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,239
who are you? I know the answer of who you're

1032
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,440
subbing out, but if McHale Bridges is playing like this

1033
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,800
on defense, is Josh Hart still the one you sub

1034
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,199
out in that instance? And also how much does that

1035
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:13,960
matter if you're not gonna go to that look during

1036
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,280
crunch time. I'm not even saying they should because part

1037
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,199
of the appeal of the Knicks and their offense is

1038
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,920
they do play when Josh Hart when defense is feel

1039
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,800
inclined to close out on Josh Hart like that. This

1040
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,960
offense just looks unguardable, yeah and so, and even when

1041
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,719
they don't, it looks unguardable most of the time. Even

1042
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,559
when they don't look great by their talent standards, the

1043
00:46:33,639 --> 00:46:37,800
offense looks unguardable. Putting another big into the like if

1044
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,880
you could get another og Ananobi, this doesn't become a problem.

1045
00:46:41,199 --> 00:46:43,639
But you have neither the assets, nor is there another

1046
00:46:43,639 --> 00:46:46,679
og Annobi floating around out there. I've seen some people

1047
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,360
say that they think Dorian Finney Smith could come in

1048
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,239
and then maybe you make og your back line stopper.

1049
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,400
But og is never he's you want to call him

1050
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,840
a five position defender, fine, he's never been good as

1051
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,880
like a primary backline stopper, so I don't know, he

1052
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,599
shouldn't be, Like, that's not something you can ever you

1053
00:47:03,639 --> 00:47:08,119
hadob he's been amazing this year. I just I guess

1054
00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:11,519
you could argue, yes, it would fix some of their

1055
00:47:11,559 --> 00:47:14,519
defensive concerns. Does it fix enough to where you're willing

1056
00:47:14,519 --> 00:47:17,559
to withstand? What I would believe, especially in the playoffs,

1057
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,039
would be the difference between a top one or top

1058
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:22,840
two offense and maybe like top seven.

1059
00:47:25,119 --> 00:47:28,159
Speaker 2: So what I'm getting is you're not sold that this

1060
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:33,519
defense can be better than league average asterisk factoring in

1061
00:47:33,559 --> 00:47:35,719
what you said about like it really depends on the

1062
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,960
level of offensive competition they're going against.

1063
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,519
Speaker 1: I really do, and the caveat there would be as

1064
00:47:41,559 --> 00:47:43,639
long as this is the version of mckelbridge as you're

1065
00:47:43,639 --> 00:47:45,480
getting on the defensive end. And then I don't know

1066
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:49,119
what the answer is because and maybe, look, maybe it is,

1067
00:47:49,159 --> 00:47:50,960
though I could just be wrong, because if you sub

1068
00:47:51,039 --> 00:47:54,159
in Mitchell Robins for Josh Hart, you could just say, well,

1069
00:47:54,159 --> 00:47:57,159
then we're gonna kill the offensive glass even more, and

1070
00:47:57,199 --> 00:47:59,440
that's how we're generator offense. It'll be a little bit uglier,

1071
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,519
But do you trust I think part of what's made

1072
00:48:02,559 --> 00:48:05,400
Bridges be better on offense, part of what's helped Kellen

1073
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,480
Brunts's playmaking, part of certainly what I think makes og

1074
00:48:08,559 --> 00:48:12,199
Atnobi so dangerous is the five out look. Yeah, and

1075
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,239
you just inherently make everybody easier to guard if you're

1076
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,559
going to the towns and Robinson or even like Robert Williams,

1077
00:48:18,639 --> 00:48:20,760
the third can have a floater, can make more plays

1078
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,119
out of the short so he's more dynamic, like teams

1079
00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:24,719
aren't you put him in the corner? Like teams aren't

1080
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:25,599
going to guard him.

1081
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is like we're you know, this isn't a surprise,

1082
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,679
but like it is kind of a trade off debate

1083
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,880
then or a conversation, I guess, because like we've seen

1084
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:40,039
Brunson lead an offense that was real limited to pretty

1085
00:48:40,119 --> 00:48:43,599
high highs and if you reintroduce a second big and

1086
00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:46,119
we'll just use Mitchell Robinson even though you like you

1087
00:48:46,119 --> 00:48:49,679
know who knows health wise and whatever, like if you

1088
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,760
introduce him into it and he at least helps the

1089
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,440
defense to some extent and Bridges plays better, which is

1090
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,039
like I just I don't know what to make of that.

1091
00:48:57,119 --> 00:48:59,119
I haven't heard a good explanation or a good theory

1092
00:48:59,159 --> 00:49:01,960
on like what exactly he's going on there. So it's

1093
00:49:02,159 --> 00:49:04,199
it's easy to say, well, when he can't be this bad,

1094
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,519
but like maybe he is. Is the trade off is

1095
00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:10,480
the gain on defense enough to offset the offense getting

1096
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,639
worse because the spacing is is not as good or

1097
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,440
Brunson has to carry a heavier load. Again, Like I

1098
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,679
don't know, I think there's if you believe in Brunson,

1099
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,400
and I think you should, you could imagine him finding

1100
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,320
ways to make the offense not lose as much as

1101
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,480
it gained as the defense gains by adding some size

1102
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,119
and back line help. But I do think you're right that,

1103
00:49:31,199 --> 00:49:34,800
like there's really no move you make that doesn't to

1104
00:49:35,119 --> 00:49:38,920
improve the defense or theoretically improve it, that doesn't give

1105
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,079
something back on the other end. I just like because

1106
00:49:41,159 --> 00:49:44,760
because then there's who's that guy like that, you just

1107
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:45,719
can't go get that guy.

1108
00:49:46,159 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, it just doesn't feel like they can

1109
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,360
get the best of both worlds. I did wonder though,

1110
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,079
like if you were able to get r W I

1111
00:49:52,119 --> 00:49:54,320
don't know what that deal looks like. Like, I don't

1112
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,880
know you could get Mitchell. You could go Mitchell Robinson

1113
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,719
for r W three, But if you're Portland, do you

1114
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,039
want you have clinging? Like do you view Mitchell Robinson's

1115
00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:04,400
a backup long term? Do you know? Do you view

1116
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,039
him as less of a health risk than so what

1117
00:50:06,039 --> 00:50:08,800
do you include? Let's say you could get him carlthe

1118
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,519
Towns to get five corner threes this year if you

1119
00:50:11,519 --> 00:50:13,920
put him in the corner when r W three is

1120
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,480
going to be your screener. I do think that comes

1121
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,679
close to giving you the best of both worlds. I

1122
00:50:18,679 --> 00:50:20,960
know Karlnthon Towns doesn't like being in the corner. And

1123
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,639
I also feel like for bigger dudes it might just

1124
00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:24,880
be objectively harder to be there, but you could lift

1125
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,480
out and stuff once the play gets going downhill. Do

1126
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:29,960
you think that's the closest they could get short of

1127
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,440
finding another big who spaces the floor and protects the

1128
00:50:32,519 --> 00:50:34,320
rill and could protect the rim.

1129
00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:37,039
Speaker 2: I kinda, I kind of like that as as you

1130
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:39,280
have that option now at least, right, Like you can

1131
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,079
play that way for some and then you can put

1132
00:50:41,119 --> 00:50:42,599
Kat at the five and he can be above the

1133
00:50:42,599 --> 00:50:45,440
break or he can pick and pop, like at least Yeah,

1134
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,599
it's like, I don't know, we talk about changing lineups

1135
00:50:47,679 --> 00:50:49,360
or adding players and it's like, oh, they'll play this

1136
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,840
way all the time, you know, Like it's not saying

1137
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,199
you do that, but it's like, no, it just you

1138
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:56,440
you can now use Kat in the corner as the

1139
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:57,159
four or whatever.

1140
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 1: You can't to be clear, you don't get to and

1141
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,199
I know you know this. You don't get to do

1142
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,320
that with Mitchell Robinson, no, because when he catches the

1143
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,760
ball on the roll, he's definitely not passing it to

1144
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:07,360
the corner.

1145
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know. I think you've made me

1146
00:51:10,519 --> 00:51:12,119
rethink it a little bit. I think a couple of

1147
00:51:12,159 --> 00:51:14,880
things I point to, just on the improvement is coming

1148
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,840
side of it is the Knicks do actually have the

1149
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,159
most significant difference between their what their point differential says

1150
00:51:21,199 --> 00:51:22,960
their win total should be and what it actually is.

1151
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:24,920
They're fifteen to ten, they should have closer to eighteen

1152
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,079
wins based on map and saying.

1153
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,199
Speaker 1: Something based off the ass kicking they took from Boston

1154
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,719
on Open at Night, right, that's priced into there, so

1155
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:33,000
that's not a fake number.

1156
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 2: The other thing is opponents are shooting thirty almost just

1157
00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:38,880
under thirty eight percent. That's one of the sixth highest

1158
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,079
opponent three point accuracy rates in the league. We tend

1159
00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:44,679
to say that's going to regress, like now do.

1160
00:51:44,639 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: You want However, Nick fans told us for so long

1161
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,039
that their defense was the reason the three point shooting

1162
00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:52,679
was poor, and so now I don't think you get

1163
00:51:52,679 --> 00:51:54,239
if you went that way on that one, you don't

1164
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:55,559
get to go that way on this one and say, well,

1165
00:51:55,559 --> 00:51:56,480
it's good, it's good normal.

1166
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,519
Speaker 2: Sure we had this with the Pelicans last year, maybe

1167
00:51:59,519 --> 00:52:01,599
the year before, or I just I'm of the mind

1168
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:03,599
that like, you don't get to be in charge of

1169
00:52:03,599 --> 00:52:06,199
how accurate opponents are from three. It's just you just

1170
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,000
assume regression to the league average.

1171
00:52:08,039 --> 00:52:10,079
Speaker 1: You can control like the share of their shots that

1172
00:52:10,079 --> 00:52:11,760
are like wide open for.

1173
00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 2: Sure, right but generally speaking, I'm just if you're if so,

1174
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,880
Like right now, Atlanta teams are shooting thirty eight point

1175
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,039
six percent. That's the highest opponent three point attempt accuracy

1176
00:52:22,119 --> 00:52:24,440
rate in the league. Like, I think the right thing

1177
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,400
to do is assume that Atlanta will allow the fifteenth

1178
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,639
best three point accuracy rate two opponents the rest of

1179
00:52:29,639 --> 00:52:31,719
the way. It's just like you just I think we'll

1180
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,400
a should be lower than that if you're saying they're

1181
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,239
gonna eventually end up in the middle, But you know

1182
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,559
what I mean. So there those are small statistical things

1183
00:52:37,599 --> 00:52:39,599
I think structurally though it is it is a pretty

1184
00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:41,840
interesting discussion about what the Knicks can do to get better.

1185
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,159
You've made me kind of there's a little more nuance

1186
00:52:44,199 --> 00:52:44,440
to that.

1187
00:52:44,519 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: I think they will be better because there's just been

1188
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,320
they've been so inconsistent when you watch them from game

1189
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,639
to game that some of that I believe will normalize

1190
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:54,480
and that should even if it's only a smidge in

1191
00:52:54,519 --> 00:52:57,679
But at this rate, you've gotten here while being imperfect,

1192
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,440
and you've dealt with you know some I'll call it

1193
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,840
a shallow rotation to be respectful. You are fourth in

1194
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,039
the East and your point differential, as you said, is

1195
00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:08,360
what is their sixth in point differential right now? Right

1196
00:53:08,639 --> 00:53:11,320
so like you've gotten there or their fifth, so like

1197
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,199
if you moved a fourth or third, like that's a

1198
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,840
big deal. So I think they will get better. I

1199
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,039
don't know if it's going to be the kind of

1200
00:53:18,079 --> 00:53:21,039
better to where as of right now, if we went

1201
00:53:21,119 --> 00:53:26,239
inner circle of title contenders, I have Cleveland, Boston, Oklahoma City,

1202
00:53:26,679 --> 00:53:29,039
and like those are my inner circle. There are other

1203
00:53:29,079 --> 00:53:31,280
teams that can win it all the Knicks are among them.

1204
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,840
I don't see the pathway to this team. I really

1205
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,840
do think people probably think I'm ascribing too much out

1206
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,880
of him, like at our W three type acquisition. That's

1207
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,320
the closest I kind of see them getting to because

1208
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,519
even if they get a reserve wing like dr if

1209
00:53:44,599 --> 00:53:46,239
any Smith would be nice, But I don't think he's

1210
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:50,000
gonna change the He might deepen your rotation, and that matters,

1211
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:51,960
like eating up minutes matters when you look at how

1212
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,400
many minutes most of these guys are playing right now.

1213
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,679
But I would like someone that you have the option

1214
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,079
of saying we might close this way. And I don't

1215
00:54:01,079 --> 00:54:02,920
know if Dorian if any Smith, Like are you really

1216
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,480
going to play him over Michale Bridges or Josh Hart.

1217
00:54:05,639 --> 00:54:07,159
I don't. I don't think so.

1218
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 2: I wouldn't think real quick on Bridges, Like I was

1219
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,360
gonna say, like, what's your confidence, like one to ten,

1220
00:54:13,519 --> 00:54:17,199
what's your like just do you have any optimism that

1221
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,519
like what he doesn't need to get back to second

1222
00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:23,840
in Defensive Player of the Year, But like, do you

1223
00:54:24,079 --> 00:54:26,280
do you think that this is just what he is

1224
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,719
now or is there something that can change that he

1225
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,400
becomes a good defender again because he hasn't been a

1226
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:33,159
good defender.

1227
00:54:34,559 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 1: I honestly don't know. Because here's the thing. I think that, look,

1228
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:39,760
there are worse I want to make it clear, there

1229
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,400
are worse defensive players in the NBA than McHale Bridges. Yeah,

1230
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,880
and some of them are on the Knicks.

1231
00:54:46,159 --> 00:54:49,119
Speaker 2: But relative to expectations or relative to his billing.

1232
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,079
Speaker 1: I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt

1233
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,920
because I think what concerns me is we saw defensive

1234
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,519
decline almost as soon as he went to Brooklyn, and

1235
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,800
I chalked that up to this guy just has this

1236
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,159
monster two way workload now that he wasn't used to

1237
00:55:06,199 --> 00:55:09,239
carrying on a day to day gad in the game.

1238
00:55:10,039 --> 00:55:13,920
But like you know, fourth percentile on ball screen navigation

1239
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,039
is bad. But you go back through his even when

1240
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:19,679
he's been worse, like, he's never had a season where

1241
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,119
you looked at him and said, that's someone who's below

1242
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:25,320
average at navigating screens. And even if you look at

1243
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,400
the data, it's really it's obviously tough to measure this.

1244
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,840
He's never ranked lower than seventy seventh in ball screen

1245
00:55:31,039 --> 00:55:33,480
navigation of the percentile. So I think you can have

1246
00:55:33,519 --> 00:55:35,400
confidence that he gets better. But I do think the

1247
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,039
level he needs to get to for the Knicks to

1248
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:39,880
have what I would say is a notably above average

1249
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,840
defense with this personnel, I think you can question whether

1250
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,559
he's gonna get there for sure, don't. I don't have

1251
00:55:45,639 --> 00:55:50,039
that level of confidence. Sub Philosikos Dan Valley here interrupting

1252
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,079
this segment to talk to you about Blue Chew. No,

1253
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,119
I'm really not doing that. I'm interrupting this because when

1254
00:55:56,119 --> 00:55:58,719
we recorded this, it was before we're about to talk

1255
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,920
about the Philadelphia, seventy six slight spoiler alert. It was

1256
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,280
before Jowell and Bebid suffered a sionus fracture and before

1257
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:08,079
Jared McCain suffered a meniscus injury. So the stuff we say,

1258
00:56:08,119 --> 00:56:10,280
I still think. My thoughts on embiids still stand. This

1259
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,920
wasn't an issue that like, Holy the Sixers are I mean,

1260
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:15,760
the Pelicans and Sixers are cursed this year. I think

1261
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,039
that much is clear, But I just wanted to interject

1262
00:56:18,039 --> 00:56:19,880
and get that up front because we did record this

1263
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,320
before there was reporting on that. I think a lot

1264
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,199
of the stuff we still say applies, but it's fair

1265
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,440
to be more skeptical skeptical on whether or not the

1266
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,599
Sixers belong here. But look, I'm right now just staring

1267
00:56:32,639 --> 00:56:35,000
at Paul George's assist rate on drives, and I think

1268
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,199
the Sixers are going to be better for the rest

1269
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,480
of the year than we've seen thus far. But who knows.

1270
00:56:39,519 --> 00:56:41,960
Maybe as I recorded this, one of them, you know,

1271
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,800
tore their acl while making a peanut butter and jelly

1272
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,840
sandwich somehow, I don't know. Cursed cursed the Sixers are them,

1273
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,599
and the Pelicans this year just absolutely cursed. That's enough

1274
00:56:52,639 --> 00:56:54,400
out of me. Though, Let's get back to the discussion

1275
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,480
where again we're gonna talk about the Sixers now, but

1276
00:56:56,519 --> 00:56:58,880
we're not going to mention the Joel Embiid or Jared

1277
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,639
McCain injuries. I do have. This is mine, So I'm

1278
00:57:02,639 --> 00:57:04,920
gonna say we're gonna talk about the new War. Oh no,

1279
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,519
we go to Philly first. Sorry, I did this out

1280
00:57:06,519 --> 00:57:09,239
all to the alphabet get you? The alphabet got me more?

1281
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,840
Were I put the Pelicans at the end because we

1282
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,000
weren't planning yet talking about them at first? Grant, why

1283
00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:16,880
is Philly gonna be better?

1284
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:25,119
Speaker 2: Easy? They'll they can't be worse. I mean, it's just

1285
00:57:26,119 --> 00:57:29,159
this is the one that like we can be maybe

1286
00:57:29,159 --> 00:57:32,360
you will be like nuanced about it and cite the numbers.

1287
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,400
It's just if you get Maxi and Embiid and Paul

1288
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,760
George on the floor, what were they so coming into

1289
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,639
that game against the Bulls when prior to that game

1290
00:57:41,679 --> 00:57:46,199
they'd had six minutes together. They played twenty six against

1291
00:57:46,199 --> 00:57:49,400
the Bulls on December eighth and were plus fourteen. Uh.

1292
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,239
And so I just firmly believe that if you have

1293
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,320
those three guys on the floor like at all, you're

1294
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,960
gonna be good. Now the question is how often can

1295
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,800
they make that happen with Embiid Like Embiid, the ability

1296
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,480
to be on the floor is just a massive uncertainty,

1297
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:06,679
and I don't know if that's going to change anytime soon.

1298
00:58:07,199 --> 00:58:09,559
But that's really just it like and then you can

1299
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:12,239
get into and maybe you will like they can make

1300
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,719
trades there. This is a team that oh they went,

1301
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:16,559
they didn't go all in like. They are not asset

1302
00:58:16,639 --> 00:58:18,880
poor necessarily, or at least not as to the extent

1303
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:19,320
you'd think.

1304
00:58:19,679 --> 00:58:21,559
Speaker 1: I talked about this with more. They're just in a

1305
00:58:21,599 --> 00:58:23,639
situation where it's I think you have to just go

1306
00:58:23,719 --> 00:58:25,880
all in still because what is the alternative? But now

1307
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,920
you've been so bad and rickety and leaky that it's well,

1308
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:31,840
should we like, is this what we want to go

1309
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,480
all in with? I will say. So they've killed the

1310
00:58:34,519 --> 00:58:36,760
minutes that Paul, George and MAXI have played together so

1311
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,440
far this year, but just in minutes in general where

1312
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,320
they've had at least two of their stars on the court.

1313
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,679
So it incorporates combinations that are just two and some three,

1314
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,480
all three of them a minus two point seven points

1315
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,239
per one hundred possessions. Now again the sample size is

1316
00:58:51,239 --> 00:58:52,679
small enough that you could write that up, but it's

1317
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,800
just something unmonitoring, and you're probably gonna need something else

1318
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,840
on this roster aside to me, aside from Jared McCain

1319
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:02,920
contending for Rookie of the Year needs to go right, Like,

1320
00:59:03,039 --> 00:59:04,519
I'm not just talking about Joelle and beat In, Paul

1321
00:59:04,519 --> 00:59:08,679
George's health. Is it Kelly Gubridge Junior playing better closer

1322
00:59:08,719 --> 00:59:10,800
to last year? Is it? What if Caleb Martin could

1323
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,119
be a league averagehooter from three point range? That's what

1324
00:59:14,199 --> 00:59:18,039
makes me a little uneasy, but there's no question that there.

1325
00:59:18,119 --> 00:59:19,960
I don't like the idea that's the number I saw

1326
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,000
floating around. I think it was from the ESPN story

1327
00:59:22,039 --> 00:59:24,639
where the Sixers view it internally as we just need

1328
00:59:24,679 --> 00:59:26,360
to get to like thirty four wins and make the

1329
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,840
play in. I hate that line of thinking. Maybe it

1330
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,840
wasn't the Sixers internally. I think it was just the

1331
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,119
data says that that's the wins they need to aim for.

1332
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,440
I still think this team is probably gonna finish above

1333
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,800
five hundred. Is that stupid?

1334
00:59:40,559 --> 00:59:43,199
Speaker 2: No? I think so too. I just I wish I

1335
00:59:43,239 --> 00:59:45,679
had a more thoughtful take on it, but I just

1336
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,320
if Embid's gonna give you, what is every other game

1337
00:59:49,639 --> 00:59:52,639
just on aur like for what they got fifty five

1338
00:59:53,039 --> 00:59:56,960
left or so, so you need twenty three games from

1339
00:59:57,039 --> 00:59:59,920
him and you get Paul George for more than I just.

1340
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,039
Speaker 1: Can we split those? Can Paul George be injured when

1341
01:00:03,119 --> 01:00:04,039
Joel Embiid is healthy?

1342
01:00:04,039 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 2: Advice you just line up? Also, like, yeah, okay, it's Tuesday.

1343
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,320
All three you're gonna play on Thursday. They're all gonna sit.

1344
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:10,519
We'll just give it them away.

1345
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna repeat the entire rant that I went on,

1346
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,440
because then it's just doubling up on like the same episode.

1347
01:00:16,079 --> 01:00:18,800
I really just I can't also get up in arms

1348
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,320
about Joel bean missing time. It's a problem, but people

1349
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,320
worry about his play when he comes back. How many

1350
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:29,039
times have we seen this movie? He just the ramp up.

1351
01:00:29,239 --> 01:00:31,880
This isn't the James Wiseman ramp up lie Like the

1352
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:35,159
Joel Embiid ramp up is real and it takes time,

1353
01:00:35,599 --> 01:00:37,039
and like he when he's been on the floor, like

1354
01:00:37,079 --> 01:00:39,760
we've seen hints of it already, And that's that's also

1355
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:41,400
I'm a believer in this team. Is they could make

1356
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,039
no changes and I still think they're gonna be really

1357
01:00:44,039 --> 01:00:47,639
good the only reason, And I feel like this skews

1358
01:00:47,719 --> 01:00:50,599
too far into it, like we're just assuming the worst,

1359
01:00:50,639 --> 01:00:53,360
which I think even in situations that don't want the

1360
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,760
benefit of the doubt. Doesn't make sense. If you really

1361
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,119
think this team is gonna be a flop, you're telling

1362
01:00:58,119 --> 01:00:59,880
me that you don't think Joel Embiid is ever gonna

1363
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:02,719
be healthy, end or play well for an extended period

1364
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,400
of time this year. When is that aside from him

1365
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,880
like missing an entire season, When does that actually ever happened?

1366
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 2: I silence.

1367
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: So I didn't want to ask you though, because I

1368
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:17,760
don't want to short shrift them on this. What do

1369
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,320
you view as kind of there because they're going to

1370
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,039
go to the trade market and they have they can

1371
01:01:22,039 --> 01:01:24,239
combine salaries as long as they're not taking back more

1372
01:01:24,239 --> 01:01:27,519
money in return. They have they're not kJ Martin. That's

1373
01:01:27,559 --> 01:01:29,559
the human He's one of the human Traine exceptions out there.

1374
01:01:29,559 --> 01:01:31,880
They can train up the four first round picks. I

1375
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,159
assume Jared McCain's untouchable, but like if you priced it

1376
01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:38,320
in him, you could get to some really like with

1377
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:41,639
the offers from Phillies end, but just not even necessarily

1378
01:01:41,679 --> 01:01:44,039
a name. But I think a lot of people have

1379
01:01:44,159 --> 01:01:47,039
said and I do believe I tend to kind of agree.

1380
01:01:47,039 --> 01:01:49,800
The three that I've seen is another big man type

1381
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:52,079
to where it's not Andre Drummond in the non embid minutes,

1382
01:01:52,159 --> 01:01:54,480
or someone who can maybe play alongside Embiid or a

1383
01:01:54,519 --> 01:01:57,599
combo forward, like just upgrading the four spot next to there,

1384
01:01:57,719 --> 01:02:01,000
or just getting a bigger guard that I've seen the

1385
01:02:01,039 --> 01:02:02,440
most of the thing.

1386
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 2: My very first thought was a four. And then that's

1387
01:02:06,039 --> 01:02:08,599
assuming you don't want to use Paul George there, because

1388
01:02:08,639 --> 01:02:10,760
if you do feel okay with Paul George as a four,

1389
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,599
which probably is fine next to Mbid, then you need

1390
01:02:13,639 --> 01:02:16,239
a wing or early you need Cala Martin to play better.

1391
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,280
Like that's just you know that that that's part of

1392
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,360
this is the old Like what what adjustment should they

1393
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:25,199
make play better? I think, like I don't know. I

1394
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,719
think it's yeah, power forward. I is it weird that

1395
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,239
I had, Like what about Vucevic, Like this might be

1396
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:37,239
the island I've ever thought, like the reunion? Yeah, yeah, right,

1397
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,320
full circle, bring him back. That's one of the like

1398
01:02:40,679 --> 01:02:43,320
most forgettable ten yures in NBA history, Like remember Vucevic

1399
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:47,199
was on the Sixers to start his career. Yeah, I

1400
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,519
don't know. I think like just to this isn't going

1401
01:02:50,599 --> 01:02:52,239
to answer your question and you can take this where

1402
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,039
you want to. But like, if the point of this

1403
01:02:54,119 --> 01:02:56,920
exercise is to isolate teams that are going to be better,

1404
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,880
the Sixers are seven and fifteen and they have a

1405
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,880
negative five one hundred differential, which is sixth worst in

1406
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,639
the league, They're going to be better than that. Like,

1407
01:03:04,719 --> 01:03:06,599
that's the low bar to clear. This is the team

1408
01:03:06,599 --> 01:03:08,760
with the lowest bar to clear that we've covered so far.

1409
01:03:09,639 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 1: I would agree, But do you think that they've become

1410
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:15,239
the best actual version of themselves that they don't approach

1411
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:20,039
the trade market with real aggression? Because I guess I'm asking,

1412
01:03:20,639 --> 01:03:22,639
like how is it? Because I can float out a

1413
01:03:22,639 --> 01:03:24,480
bunch of different names, like, yeah, okay, if you traded

1414
01:03:24,519 --> 01:03:26,840
for Cody Martin, you probably win the NBA title. But

1415
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,079
if you go get a Larry Nance junior versus going

1416
01:03:30,079 --> 01:03:32,800
to get in Isaiah Stewart. You know, like on the

1417
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:34,840
spectrum of what if you want this team to be

1418
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,599
a title contender, do you think it can be this

1419
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,599
as currently constructed or with a minor ish upgrade or

1420
01:03:41,599 --> 01:03:43,920
do you think it needs to be someone who is

1421
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:45,679
either playing a ton of minutes or might even be

1422
01:03:45,679 --> 01:03:47,800
a part of their playoff closing unit.

1423
01:03:49,079 --> 01:03:52,559
Speaker 2: Being a title contender with embiid's history of not making

1424
01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:54,800
you through the playoffs kind of is like the cop

1425
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:56,360
out answer is like I don't know if you're getting

1426
01:03:56,360 --> 01:04:00,679
there no matter what, I am inclined to think that,

1427
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,800
Like it almost like, oh, is it Nance or is

1428
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,159
it is it Stewart or somebody much better than that?

1429
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,320
Like I kind of think like working big to small,

1430
01:04:11,519 --> 01:04:13,679
if you just have your three best players that you

1431
01:04:13,719 --> 01:04:15,920
built this whole team around, healthy and on the floor,

1432
01:04:16,639 --> 01:04:20,480
then like, unless you're talking about a massive blockbuster, all

1433
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,480
of the other additions you might make in the trade

1434
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,000
market feel marginal to me. So like the difference between

1435
01:04:26,079 --> 01:04:27,760
Nance and whoever else you want to throw out there,

1436
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,039
like I don't, I don't know, Like it's almost like

1437
01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:32,840
a different version of the like what's the who's the

1438
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,679
worst player they could trade for that would elevate them

1439
01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:38,079
to title contention. I'm not sure what the answer is

1440
01:04:38,119 --> 01:04:42,760
because I again like we've seen these three guys play

1441
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,719
so little that I don't know if this team even

1442
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,400
really has a great sense of what it's real needs

1443
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:53,039
would be, assuming those guys are out there now, Again

1444
01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:56,760
that's like a non answer. I still think you kind

1445
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,199
of can't go wrong with someone that can play at

1446
01:05:00,199 --> 01:05:04,360
the other forward spot between George and Embiid. That would

1447
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,880
be a threat to defenses and help the you know, ideally,

1448
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,079
even if it was someone that could play some backup five,

1449
01:05:10,159 --> 01:05:12,719
that would be great. Like that's that's your two birds solution.

1450
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:16,320
The way you're framing the question, it makes me think

1451
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,679
you're kind of leaning towards you need to make a

1452
01:05:20,039 --> 01:05:24,559
substantial like starter plus level addition to consider this team

1453
01:05:24,559 --> 01:05:25,119
of contender.

1454
01:05:25,719 --> 01:05:27,119
Speaker 1: I do, and it's a lot of it is to

1455
01:05:27,199 --> 01:05:30,360
offset the uncertainty. I mean, like some of the we

1456
01:05:30,519 --> 01:05:32,480
focused a lot on the Big three, and we mentioned

1457
01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:34,119
Jared McCay, but as I meant, like Kayla mar has

1458
01:05:34,199 --> 01:05:36,440
not shot the ball well this year. Was that's somewhere

1459
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,000
you're trying, Like Calibridge Junior's not been as good as

1460
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:40,440
he was last year, which I think you could kind

1461
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,440
of see coming when you look at the makeup of

1462
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,280
this team. And so to me, it feels like, you know,

1463
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,360
I don't know whether it's a bigger guard. I gravitate

1464
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,119
towards the forward spot as well. You mentioned it'd be

1465
01:05:50,119 --> 01:05:51,719
great if they could play backup five. I just feel

1466
01:05:51,719 --> 01:05:53,719
like the list of names for like Larry NaN's junior

1467
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:57,679
probably comes the closest to actualizing that of an Isaiah Stewart,

1468
01:05:57,960 --> 01:05:59,719
I guess, but he's not like Larry and Junior is

1469
01:05:59,719 --> 01:06:01,480
going to do. We're on the wing defensively, I would

1470
01:06:01,519 --> 01:06:04,079
think at this point. So I'm just in my head,

1471
01:06:04,119 --> 01:06:06,880
I think they like, if they're gonna make a trade,

1472
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:08,639
I'm thinking of it as like, oh, they gave up

1473
01:06:08,719 --> 01:06:11,920
like a first round pick and more to go make

1474
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:13,840
this upgrade, and I think that's what they kind of need.

1475
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:17,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that. I just uh, I mean,

1476
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:21,039
the answer might just be the uncertainty surrounding the health

1477
01:06:21,119 --> 01:06:24,079
of Embiid specifically and George to a lesser extent, means

1478
01:06:24,079 --> 01:06:27,239
that like you almost I don't know if you. Half

1479
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,760
of me says, well, you've come this far, go all

1480
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,000
the way in, and the other half is like, you

1481
01:06:32,039 --> 01:06:34,000
can't trust that Embid's gonna be out there. So it

1482
01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:36,480
kind of is not smart to just throw the rest

1483
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,159
of your assets after somebody else, because what where where

1484
01:06:39,159 --> 01:06:41,280
does that get you? If Embiid can't play.

1485
01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1486
01:06:42,039 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 2: It's a tough spot.

1487
01:06:43,519 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 1: They'll be better, though, Like OA, our next team up

1488
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,719
before we enter the lightning round portion is we have

1489
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,719
the New Orleans Pelicans. This is another low bar. I

1490
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:56,239
think they're gonna be better because they can't get any

1491
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:58,760
more injured. But I do think I guess they could

1492
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,039
they because they've been more injured than they are right now.

1493
01:07:01,119 --> 01:07:03,800
I don't think they'll continue to get more injured. Could

1494
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:06,760
you make the case, though, that this is a flawed

1495
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,159
inclusion because I think it opens up the interesting discussion

1496
01:07:09,199 --> 01:07:11,960
of will they really just lean into the tank at

1497
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:12,480
some point?

1498
01:07:13,559 --> 01:07:15,719
Speaker 2: I mean, you'd got to. You kind of have to

1499
01:07:15,719 --> 01:07:20,360
talk me out of that being the likely path because

1500
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:22,280
you have.

1501
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:27,239
Speaker 1: Tank and win more than well, yeah, of your games though, yeah.

1502
01:07:27,079 --> 01:07:30,039
Speaker 2: We really burned the This is a low bar argument

1503
01:07:30,039 --> 01:07:31,960
on the Sixers. We should have saved it for this

1504
01:07:32,039 --> 01:07:35,800
team five and twenty or oh sorry, five and twenty one.

1505
01:07:37,559 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 1: Time you listen to this.

1506
01:07:40,239 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 2: Well, so just let's let's look at where they are.

1507
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:46,199
Like you have the Ingram trade urgency is significant. I

1508
01:07:46,239 --> 01:07:49,000
think they just gotta trade him, and you're not going

1509
01:07:49,079 --> 01:07:52,079
to get a lot for him, and maybe he's played

1510
01:07:52,079 --> 01:07:54,719
his last game anyway for them just because of the injury.

1511
01:07:55,239 --> 01:07:58,000
And why would he come back if he's gonna just

1512
01:07:58,079 --> 01:07:59,719
to just play out the string for a team that

1513
01:08:00,199 --> 01:08:04,480
clearly the divorce is basically all but final. The william

1514
01:08:04,599 --> 01:08:07,079
like Zion, I don't know, Like I don't think they're

1515
01:08:07,079 --> 01:08:09,440
gonna wave him. I think that's really unlikely. But like,

1516
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,119
what do you count? What does.

1517
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: The way? That was never a real conversation. You can

1518
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,279
you even make an argument? And I said this to Moret.

1519
01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:21,079
Speaker 2: Is that a challenge?

1520
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, make the okay, lawyer, where's the get the lawyers

1521
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,439
don't have gabbles, Go get a briefcase or something and

1522
01:08:28,199 --> 01:08:30,880
a and a and a really thick tie for some reason.

1523
01:08:31,279 --> 01:08:33,840
Uh that maybe clips on. I don't know. My whole

1524
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,840
thing is, can you make an argument we're waving Zion

1525
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:39,760
Williamson makes any sense for the Pelicans?

1526
01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:43,199
Speaker 2: Here's I'll try, and I'm and as a true lawyer,

1527
01:08:43,239 --> 01:08:45,159
I'm gonna make an argument. I don't actually believe in

1528
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:52,119
Uh what's the word? Okay? So the only the only

1529
01:08:52,199 --> 01:08:54,479
way that you would wave him and just wipe that

1530
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:58,960
salary off is if you are one hundred percent convinced

1531
01:08:59,079 --> 01:09:02,800
that you cannot aid him for positive value or neutral value?

1532
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:07,680
Right like, and I guess there is to me a scenario.

1533
01:09:08,279 --> 01:09:10,119
Look at look at who you can't who we haven't

1534
01:09:10,159 --> 01:09:14,439
been able to trade for positive or neutral value? Is

1535
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:18,039
Zion excluded? Like brandon Ingram that trade hasn't materialized?

1536
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:21,640
Speaker 1: Sure? Or New Orleans? Just I think we kind of

1537
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:23,840
have evidence that New Orleans doesn't really know what they're

1538
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:24,600
doing upstairs.

1539
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,600
Speaker 2: Sure, so zach Lavine, zach Lavine spent I don't know,

1540
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,399
eighteen months, couldn't do it, couldn't trade him, like you

1541
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:33,479
had to give up picks to get off zach Lavine's deal.

1542
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,119
So this does happen, So I guess you'd have And now,

1543
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:40,159
by the way, would the bulls have just waved zach Lavine?

1544
01:09:40,199 --> 01:09:41,880
Probably not. They probably would have waited it out, and

1545
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:43,560
now his value is high again and they will get

1546
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,600
something for him. But if with Zion, that's a unique

1547
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,039
case because this is every year he's hurt, every year,

1548
01:09:49,079 --> 01:09:51,399
he seems to get less athletic every year. It gets

1549
01:09:51,399 --> 01:09:53,039
harder and harder to believe you can build a team

1550
01:09:53,079 --> 01:09:54,840
around him. So you just have to get to a

1551
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:57,479
point where you're like, what are we waiting around for?

1552
01:09:57,880 --> 01:09:59,600
Why are we going to keep this salary on our

1553
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,079
book if we know we're never going to be able

1554
01:10:02,119 --> 01:10:04,239
to trade it. We're like, our best case is, let's

1555
01:10:04,239 --> 01:10:06,840
hope for a disabled player exception. We can nullify the

1556
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:09,840
contract that way if some doctor says like, okay, let's

1557
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,560
just wave him now and we have flexible Like, look again,

1558
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:15,520
I don't believe this argument, but you like that's the

1559
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,720
way it goes, right, I guess Like the counter I

1560
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:21,359
would say is show me the team that's gonna give

1561
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:25,279
up like clearly positive value for Zion And I don't

1562
01:10:25,319 --> 01:10:27,319
think that team exists right now. That's not to say

1563
01:10:27,359 --> 01:10:29,760
it couldn't exist in the future, But anyway.

1564
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,319
Speaker 1: Why you keep him? Though you could get hope at

1565
01:10:32,319 --> 01:10:35,079
some point, the only real reason would be they have

1566
01:10:35,199 --> 01:10:38,520
mega free agency plans, right and they don't. This is

1567
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,520
the New Orleans Pelicans, So he's not he's not ruining

1568
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,279
your tank. I mean, look at them right now, and

1569
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:45,960
if you have the off chance of maybe you do

1570
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,640
get him healthy for a year and he's either so

1571
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:50,880
good that you're so good or he's so good as

1572
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,319
crete value is rehabbed. I just I saw that float

1573
01:10:53,359 --> 01:10:55,760
around out there and I was just make the case

1574
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,279
and they're just you made as good of a case

1575
01:10:58,279 --> 01:10:59,079
that there is, and it's.

1576
01:10:59,239 --> 01:11:02,039
Speaker 2: It's not a real c case. Yeah, to be clear,

1577
01:11:02,279 --> 01:11:05,520
I like, I don't think that's realistic at all. But

1578
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:09,359
so well, we're talking about can New Orleans be better

1579
01:11:09,399 --> 01:11:09,760
this year?

1580
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: And if here we could boil it down to this,

1581
01:11:12,319 --> 01:11:15,920
exclude the low bar argument, say they're on pace to

1582
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,960
win sixteen games? Will they win more than sixteen games?

1583
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:21,479
And that's will they be better or not?

1584
01:11:23,399 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, they got you right. I mean, like they still

1585
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:28,840
have a bunch of NBA players, like they're not the herb.

1586
01:11:29,039 --> 01:11:32,319
The herb trade talk was was an interesting moment earlier

1587
01:11:32,359 --> 01:11:32,680
this week.

1588
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:35,159
Speaker 1: Was the other teams that try to bill it into existence.

1589
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:38,039
Speaker 2: I mean that seems like why of like where are

1590
01:11:38,079 --> 01:11:39,640
you going to find a player as good as him

1591
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:41,560
on a deal, Like it's just that you're never gonna

1592
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:45,760
trade that guy. But Trey Murphy, John Say Murra at

1593
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:49,399
least are like real NBA players on the roster, I think,

1594
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,199
And if you're gonna say, well they should really got

1595
01:11:51,239 --> 01:11:52,960
to trade McCallum and Ingram, like I don't know how

1596
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,319
much worse does that really make you like you might

1597
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:58,359
have some addition by some traction stuff there, certainly financially,

1598
01:11:58,399 --> 01:12:01,720
but even on the court, I don't know. I just

1599
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,560
I think steering into the tank, though, is likely. I

1600
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:07,199
just don't know that that actually means they'll be worse

1601
01:12:07,239 --> 01:12:08,479
because they've been so bad.

1602
01:12:09,279 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 1: I think if you get to a point, unless you're

1603
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,359
shutting everybody down, So let's just independent of Zion, you're

1604
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:16,640
just going to be better, especially with Eves and mecI

1605
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:19,640
showing a lot. You've gotten good minutes from Brandon Boston Junior.

1606
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,359
But there is this is there say that this is

1607
01:12:22,399 --> 01:12:25,039
the riskiest one. The Knicks feel like they might be

1608
01:12:25,079 --> 01:12:27,079
the riskiest one. But when you look at the Pelicans,

1609
01:12:27,119 --> 01:12:29,600
I bet you've I asked you to name how many

1610
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:31,840
of their leaders are in the top five of total

1611
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:34,279
minutes played on the team. I'm sure you get a few.

1612
01:12:35,239 --> 01:12:37,000
I'll give you. Brand Ingram is one of them.

1613
01:12:37,319 --> 01:12:40,079
Speaker 2: Hasn't Hasn't Boston played more minutes than anyone else on

1614
01:12:40,119 --> 01:12:41,720
the team this year? Did I see that right?

1615
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:46,039
Speaker 1: Boston is second, brand Ingram is third, Javonte Green is fourth,

1616
01:12:46,399 --> 01:12:49,359
Jeremiah Robinson Earl is fifth, and so there's like there's

1617
01:12:49,399 --> 01:12:52,159
a degree of here. If this keeps traveling down that path,

1618
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:55,640
I don't look at it. This is not based on

1619
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:58,560
anything else that anything I've seen personally. The fact that

1620
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:02,479
there's still twenty nine in RIM and three attack like

1621
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:06,239
RIM and three frequency that PBP stats tracks, it's just

1622
01:13:07,239 --> 01:13:09,560
mind boggling incompetence from the front office. I don't care

1623
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,720
who's been injured looking at this point. With that being said,

1624
01:13:13,119 --> 01:13:15,239
they're just gonna have to be healthier at some point,

1625
01:13:15,279 --> 01:13:16,720
So I'm not looking at this. Yeah, there's been someone

1626
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:19,079
intriguing lineups. There was the one. There's a lineup that's

1627
01:13:19,119 --> 01:13:21,039
killing it for them. It's like brandon Ingram and then

1628
01:13:21,119 --> 01:13:23,159
nobody else who is supposed to play for the Pelicans

1629
01:13:23,159 --> 01:13:26,039
this year and they're like plus a trillion per whatever.

1630
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:28,039
I think you get to a point where, even if

1631
01:13:28,079 --> 01:13:30,319
you move Ingram, you know what's gonna happen to that

1632
01:13:30,359 --> 01:13:32,119
even if you're getting players you don't want, you might

1633
01:13:32,159 --> 01:13:35,680
get players who are just better, Like they're more complimentary

1634
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:37,960
than brandon Ingram, and so you kind of boost your

1635
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,680
product that way. But I think they're gonna be better

1636
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:45,520
even if they wind up shutting people down or really

1637
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:47,479
leaning into the tank come March or something.

1638
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean five and twenty one. I mean, well,

1639
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:53,920
Washington would like a word, but like, it's hard to

1640
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:54,640
be worse than that.

1641
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 1: Okay, we're entering the lightning Round portion, which is these

1642
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,000
are the teams we're not sure about. So this is

1643
01:13:59,039 --> 01:14:02,159
the better or worse portion of the podcast. Who is

1644
01:14:02,239 --> 01:14:04,680
first up? I don't know the order of this one.

1645
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:06,960
The Dallas Mavericks.

1646
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 2: All right, So how good has Dallas been? I think

1647
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:12,560
a lot of people would say they're the second best

1648
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,000
team in the West, or at least in the conversation

1649
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:16,039
they are.

1650
01:14:16,359 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 1: They have the second best point differential against teams that

1651
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:24,600
have top ten point differentials. They are. There's been some

1652
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:28,920
crunch time wonkiness. We've had some weird Luca performances. We've

1653
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,000
had some there was cold shooting stretches at the beginning

1654
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,520
of the season from some guys. They're in here because

1655
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:34,920
I didn't tell you they're gonna be in here because

1656
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:38,520
I honestly think that they have another level to hit

1657
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:40,720
and I think they're gonna be better. I mean the

1658
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,640
Derek Lively instead of Daniel Gafford in the starting lineup.

1659
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:45,640
I know they still kind of split the minutes. That

1660
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:49,760
resulting starting five is destroying people. I really do think.

1661
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,119
I don't think they're gonna catch the thunder, but for

1662
01:14:52,199 --> 01:14:55,119
the rest of this season, I expect Dallas to be

1663
01:14:55,199 --> 01:14:56,800
the team that winds up with the second seed in

1664
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:57,720
the Western Conference.

1665
01:14:58,119 --> 01:15:03,199
Speaker 2: Okay, I could. I could definitely see it. I'm just trying, like, so, PJ. Washington,

1666
01:15:03,239 --> 01:15:05,359
how many games has he missed? It feels like a lot,

1667
01:15:05,399 --> 01:15:08,880
but maybe it's not. He's missed what five? He's like,

1668
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,119
low key really important to them. So I think I

1669
01:15:12,199 --> 01:15:14,760
was going to try to make the health argument. Maxic

1670
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,880
Kleiba missed ten games. Plus that's just when you.

1671
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 1: Got Maxen's prosper hitting those big shots. Even though they

1672
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:22,760
lost that game.

1673
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:24,680
Speaker 2: I saw him out there. Who is it against? Guess

1674
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:26,600
it must have been in the OKC game in the

1675
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:29,439
NBA Cup game. Was like, oh yeah, I forgot about him.

1676
01:15:30,039 --> 01:15:31,399
We were kind of high on him as a as

1677
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:33,720
a draft prospect. No, I think I think you're right.

1678
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,319
I think Dallas has a level to climb, and a

1679
01:15:36,319 --> 01:15:39,199
lot of that is It sounds crazy because Luca's Luca

1680
01:15:39,239 --> 01:15:42,279
and his numbers are you know, insane for anybody like

1681
01:15:42,319 --> 01:15:44,279
he hasn't been. Luca hasn't been his best self at

1682
01:15:44,279 --> 01:15:46,800
all this season. Right like now, maybe you argue that

1683
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,640
Kyrie Irving has been and that's gonna balance, you know,

1684
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:52,399
as good as Luca. As much as Luca improves, Irving

1685
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:57,119
will regress. But I think you get Washington going. Klay

1686
01:15:57,119 --> 01:15:59,640
Thompson is having actually like one of his worst offensive

1687
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,159
seasons since he was a rookie. Maybe he gets up

1688
01:16:02,159 --> 01:16:04,880
over forty percent from three or or from the field,

1689
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:07,039
which would be nice. He's under forty percent from the field.

1690
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:09,680
I don't know why when I turned into like the

1691
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:11,960
let's dumb on Klay Thompson, I feel like I should

1692
01:16:12,119 --> 01:16:12,960
talk about these.

1693
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,159
Speaker 1: Guys take off a Warriors jersey and you become.

1694
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:20,640
Speaker 2: A monster dead to me, Yeah, I could see it.

1695
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:24,720
I guess like the question is, since Dallas has been good, like,

1696
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:29,399
are the is it capable of like splitting itself off

1697
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,920
from the Houstons and the memphiss And I hesitate to

1698
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:35,119
throw like Golden State and Phoenix in there, but you know,

1699
01:16:35,399 --> 01:16:37,520
to get to where they're closer to OKAC than they

1700
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:40,479
are to that like second tier I could see it, right, like,

1701
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,159
just Luca play better, Like that's that's maybe the all

1702
01:16:43,239 --> 01:16:43,640
it takes.

1703
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 1: I also think the others and he's been a little

1704
01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:47,560
bit better since coming back from injury. But I really think,

1705
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:50,399
and this kind of goes against what we're doing here,

1706
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:52,640
but the amount of time they have him off the

1707
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:54,840
ball is at an all time high, and I just

1708
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:59,119
think from an energy expenditure perspective, that's going to serve

1709
01:16:59,199 --> 01:17:00,039
them so well.

1710
01:17:00,119 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 2: Postseason, right, yeah, because if you avoid the wear down,

1711
01:17:04,159 --> 01:17:06,840
then who knows, like we've never we've kind of never

1712
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,039
seen a not worn down Luca as we get deep

1713
01:17:09,039 --> 01:17:12,119
into the playoffs. So good point there, Indiana Pacers next, Dan,

1714
01:17:12,239 --> 01:17:16,119
This is okay, this is this is all I've been

1715
01:17:16,159 --> 01:17:20,680
thinking about lately. The Atlanta the twenty one Hawks that

1716
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:24,079
made the conference finals. They to me, they they are

1717
01:17:24,119 --> 01:17:28,199
the most like side eyed big air quotes conference finalists

1718
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:32,159
in recent memory. Right. The other one that I thought

1719
01:17:32,159 --> 01:17:35,680
of is the nineteen Blazers that the Warriors swept and

1720
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:40,359
that that team you know, had Damian Lillard didn't win

1721
01:17:40,399 --> 01:17:43,520
a playoff series after that. The Hawks, same case. The

1722
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:45,600
Hawks actually look pretty good right now. I'm kind of

1723
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,079
in on the Hawks at the moment. But are the

1724
01:17:48,119 --> 01:17:51,399
Pacers now do they have the crown as the most

1725
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:54,760
Like remember when they made the conference finals? Like is

1726
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:56,600
that where they are now? Where we just look at

1727
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:59,319
that and think, like, man, what a like lightning in

1728
01:17:59,359 --> 01:18:02,560
a bottle? That wasn't who they are? Kind of thing?

1729
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:05,960
Because I do feel like Atlanta and Portland both carry

1730
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:08,880
that now that those teams the Portland's blown up, but

1731
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:12,159
like I think Indiana feels like that team. Now can

1732
01:18:12,199 --> 01:18:13,560
you talk me out of that feeling?

1733
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 1: I really? I mean if you look at the number

1734
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:19,279
of times that Portland made during the Dame and CJ

1735
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:23,960
eras where they just continued to make these half measure trades,

1736
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:26,159
are going for singles and doubles rather than going all

1737
01:18:26,199 --> 01:18:28,479
in on the exact type of player by the way,

1738
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:31,199
they needed and the Pacers today need.

1739
01:18:32,159 --> 01:18:35,159
Speaker 2: Sorry, can we talk about the similarities too? So Portland

1740
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:40,239
Dame offense only undersized guard that has to be high usage.

1741
01:18:41,119 --> 01:18:45,680
Atlanta Trey offense only undersized guard that has to be

1742
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:48,680
high usage on the ball, like can't guard any positions,

1743
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:52,039
let alone a different one than point guard. Halliburton not

1744
01:18:52,159 --> 01:18:55,439
as undersized but certainly slight like I don't know, do

1745
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:59,319
weve well who but he can't guard anybody. He gets

1746
01:18:59,319 --> 01:19:00,640
targeted more than as much as true.

1747
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:05,520
Speaker 1: I'm not defending I'm not defending his deed, but it's like,

1748
01:19:06,079 --> 01:19:07,399
I think we just got to stop.

1749
01:19:07,119 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 2: Building teams around offense only gart Like I just you

1750
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:12,479
need to build them differently. I think is the point

1751
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:13,119
you're about to.

1752
01:19:13,039 --> 01:19:16,079
Speaker 1: Make, right, and they're gonna be worse because I don't

1753
01:19:16,119 --> 01:19:18,239
think they've got you talk about the need on the

1754
01:19:18,239 --> 01:19:21,319
wing that what is this year twenty that they've had again,

1755
01:19:21,359 --> 01:19:24,560
they've just decided we're good, like we got them hard

1756
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:27,520
and TJ McConnell and Ben mcmathren, and we're not gonna

1757
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:29,600
play Jarris Walker nearly enough and he's never gonna be

1758
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:32,239
the player we need him to be. They're they're clearly.

1759
01:19:32,279 --> 01:19:33,640
I don't think they're good enough to say, well, we're

1760
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:35,319
gonna go out on the trade market and do something.

1761
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:38,279
I also think that they're kind of hamstrung because a

1762
01:19:38,319 --> 01:19:40,359
lot some of the outgoing salary for any trade like

1763
01:19:40,359 --> 01:19:42,479
an Obie topping, you might have to compensate a team

1764
01:19:42,479 --> 01:19:45,079
to take on that deal as part of the package.

1765
01:19:45,479 --> 01:19:47,359
I think their real flaw right now which is why

1766
01:19:47,359 --> 01:19:50,560
I don't trust him to be better. Halliburton, I think

1767
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:53,560
is more I don't even want to say definitely more

1768
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:55,600
so than Trey Young. You can use him in different

1769
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:57,479
ways than we've seen it, and we've seen them use

1770
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,079
him in a way more different ways than por and

1771
01:20:00,279 --> 01:20:03,840
use Damian Lillard. I feel like they've just run too

1772
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:06,520
far afield of how did we get here? Why did

1773
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:08,680
we go out and get Pascal Siakam in the first place,

1774
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:11,880
Because Tyre's Haliburton is one of the most transcendent drivers

1775
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:14,319
of offensive basketball when he's on the floor, And if

1776
01:20:14,319 --> 01:20:17,000
you wanted someone who's gonna go out and screen or

1777
01:20:17,039 --> 01:20:19,159
spend a bunch of time off the ball, you probably

1778
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:22,439
shouldn't have traded Buddy Heeled. And I think they've tried

1779
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:25,439
too much to accommodate the look of even some of

1780
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:28,560
Andrew Nemhard's offense, but mostly a Ben mcmather on offense

1781
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:31,760
and a Pascal Siakam on offense, and look Sakam I

1782
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:34,479
think he's worth accommodating. So now you have that where

1783
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:36,760
I think that you've leaned too far away from what

1784
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:39,039
Tyre's Halburton is great at. I'm not saying he's been

1785
01:20:39,079 --> 01:20:41,399
good this year, but his role Just go look at

1786
01:20:41,399 --> 01:20:43,800
the off ball usage stuff specifically, and I think it

1787
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:47,760
contributes to his true usage, which factors in playmaking. It's

1788
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:50,600
dropped by like ten percentage points this year. Grant, Yeah,

1789
01:20:51,239 --> 01:20:52,960
I blame that on the Pacers. It's also a little

1790
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:54,800
bit on him. He feels too passive even on his

1791
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:58,199
drives relative to last year. But now you have to

1792
01:20:58,359 --> 01:21:02,640
combine that with well turners not the level of defender

1793
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:05,520
that he was a year and a half ago or whatever.

1794
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:07,760
And then on top of that, so Nie Smith's been

1795
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:09,520
injured one of your best wing defenders, and you really

1796
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:13,119
just don't have a bunch of good, properly sized wing defenders.

1797
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:15,600
How does this team get better? Is it because you

1798
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:19,279
view that their baseline isn't any like, it's so low

1799
01:21:19,279 --> 01:21:20,960
it can only go up. I think it can get

1800
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:23,119
worse for this team. They might reach a point where

1801
01:21:23,159 --> 01:21:25,520
it's do we will like, you know, do we kind

1802
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:27,720
of reach a point where we need to consider about

1803
01:21:28,039 --> 01:21:30,000
like throwing in the towel on this season because they

1804
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:31,800
don't know a pick. They don't know, Oh, is it

1805
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:33,640
this pick they owe or is it next year's pick?

1806
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:34,920
That they owe to Toronto.

1807
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:37,079
Speaker 2: When when did the Toronto obligations start?

1808
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 1: I think I think it was twenty twenty six. Yeah so,

1809
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:42,640
and its top four protective, so you could take during

1810
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:45,800
that season as well, so they might reach a point

1811
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:49,279
where they're thinking in those terms. And I think you

1812
01:21:49,319 --> 01:21:52,479
could argue the Blazers are different, but certainly with the

1813
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:54,960
Hawks because like the Blazers didn't really come out of nowhere,

1814
01:21:55,079 --> 01:21:56,439
Dame was trenched as a star.

1815
01:21:57,039 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 2: They were good for a while with the Hawks at

1816
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:00,840
the time.

1817
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:03,239
Speaker 1: I don't remember it being they need to go out

1818
01:22:03,319 --> 01:22:06,840
and do this. For the Pacers, it has so long

1819
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,479
been they need to go out and do these two things.

1820
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,159
They got Siakam, which checked one of the boxes, and

1821
01:22:12,199 --> 01:22:15,479
they have just punted on the wing aspect of it all,

1822
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:19,119
and I think that makes it ultra frustrating as a

1823
01:22:19,159 --> 01:22:22,039
fan of the Pacers or just someone who wants to

1824
01:22:22,039 --> 01:22:24,479
see teams. Progress doesn't always have to be linear, but

1825
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:26,960
you want progression. And so I do not think they're

1826
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:29,840
going to be better this year. I am officially out

1827
01:22:30,199 --> 01:22:32,720
on the twenty twenty four five and you hada.

1828
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 2: Pacers, So I get it. It's just like it's looked

1829
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:41,479
so bad. I think the only reservation I have is

1830
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:45,920
that it's they've fallen so far and in ways that

1831
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:49,960
you would not have anticipated, Like just it's it should

1832
01:22:50,039 --> 01:22:52,600
be possible still for this team to be really good

1833
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:55,640
offensively and the like. I think it's just the sheer

1834
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:59,000
number of factors can like, so Halligerton has just been worse.

1835
01:22:59,079 --> 01:23:02,960
Like I I wonder sometimes about like do defenses have

1836
01:23:03,039 --> 01:23:04,880
defense has just got the book now where it's like

1837
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:07,479
we pressure so Indy takes forever to get into stuff

1838
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:09,159
and Haliburton's worn down, or we get it out of

1839
01:23:09,199 --> 01:23:11,039
his hands and we dare somebody else to make plays

1840
01:23:11,119 --> 01:23:15,720
and then like compounded with maybe Haliburton's not healthy, compounded

1841
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:20,439
with the like the Matherin Haliburton mix does not work.

1842
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:23,800
Kayln Cooper was talking about. She was as diplomatic as

1843
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:27,760
could be, but basically with citing how you know Matherin

1844
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:31,439
just isn't wired as someone that when the ball has

1845
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:33,800
gotten out of Haliburton's hands, that Matherin has it and

1846
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:37,560
like the decision tree like takes form before him and

1847
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:39,880
he like goes down it quickly. It's just he doesn't

1848
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:42,359
process quickly. He's not built to be a pastor on

1849
01:23:42,399 --> 01:23:44,640
the move. He has one of the lowest assistant usage

1850
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:47,319
rates at his position in the league. It's like third percentile.

1851
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:51,640
And so if he's not gonna give you elite defense

1852
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:54,039
on either backcourt spot, and he's not going to facilitate,

1853
01:23:54,039 --> 01:23:56,359
and he's just still is not someone that loves the

1854
01:23:56,399 --> 01:23:58,199
catch and shoot. He's not wired that way. This is

1855
01:23:58,239 --> 01:24:01,039
all recycled ship from last year. And I'll grant you

1856
01:24:01,279 --> 01:24:04,079
he's made improvements in some areas, I just don't think

1857
01:24:04,119 --> 01:24:07,520
that fit works. And so like the path to getting

1858
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:11,159
better is probably trading him and probably trading Jarris Walker,

1859
01:24:11,279 --> 01:24:13,600
and you know, seeing if you can get someone that

1860
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:16,159
fills the big wing need that you've talked about or

1861
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:20,000
you know, the Miles Turner role. There's like there seem

1862
01:24:20,079 --> 01:24:21,800
to be ways to do it, But do you think

1863
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:24,119
Indy is willing to do that? Like if if this

1864
01:24:24,239 --> 01:24:26,039
is as bad off as it seems like, are you

1865
01:24:26,079 --> 01:24:28,920
gonna trade your two most recent lottery picks? Like I

1866
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:29,399
don't know.

1867
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:32,560
Speaker 1: And I think also the problem there is who is

1868
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:34,960
the because I don't think either one of those guys

1869
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,399
and the Jars Walker stuff might be more on Indy

1870
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:41,520
than Jarreson Walker is not panning out. Neither of those

1871
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,399
players are viewed around the league as like even close

1872
01:24:44,439 --> 01:24:46,199
to a blue chip prospect, right.

1873
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:48,319
Speaker 2: We don't the guy teams aren't calling saying what'll it

1874
01:24:48,359 --> 01:24:49,000
take for those?

1875
01:24:49,079 --> 01:24:50,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so if you're if the best, if the

1876
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:52,920
best player you could get, And we had this conversation.

1877
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:56,199
Our discord was like Cam Johnson or Dorian Finney Smith

1878
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:58,600
with one of those guys as the anchor, and there's

1879
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:02,600
other salary involved, that's like kind of unspectacular. I would

1880
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:05,039
argue the values probably spot on for what we've seen

1881
01:25:05,039 --> 01:25:06,439
from these players of what they can know to be.

1882
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:09,960
But as a franchise to say we're gonna trade Jars

1883
01:25:10,039 --> 01:25:13,680
Walker to get Dorian Finney Smith or even Cam Johnson,

1884
01:25:14,159 --> 01:25:16,199
and you could even well, we're getting off Obi top

1885
01:25:16,199 --> 01:25:18,319
and in the process, fans don't want to hear that,

1886
01:25:18,359 --> 01:25:20,279
and they shouldn't want to hear that because you didn't

1887
01:25:20,319 --> 01:25:21,399
have to give Obi Topp.

1888
01:25:21,239 --> 01:25:23,520
Speaker 2: And that ridiculous deal.

1889
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and by the way, we're gonna move on.

1890
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:27,840
We boil it down to this. You don't get the

1891
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:29,960
benefit of the doubt when you're an offense first team

1892
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:32,560
that ranks nineteenth in points scool for possession the quarter

1893
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:33,359
of the way through the season.

1894
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:37,039
Speaker 2: There's no path to the defense being good, like the

1895
01:25:37,119 --> 01:25:41,359
barring total wholesale roster turnover grant.

1896
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 1: We're up to the Los Angeles Lakers. Will they be

1897
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,199
better or worse for the rest of this season? Say it?

1898
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:51,920
Speaker 2: I think worse. I think worse. I think the thing

1899
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:55,079
we fixated on, or I did before the season, was

1900
01:25:55,119 --> 01:25:57,479
how many games Davis and Lebron played last year, and

1901
01:25:57,520 --> 01:25:59,760
that that wasn't gonna happen. They've been other than this

1902
01:26:00,359 --> 01:26:02,960
like sabbatical that Lebron has taken for a couple of games,

1903
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:06,479
They've been healthy and and Davis has been if you

1904
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:09,479
just don't ever watch him play transition defense really good.

1905
01:26:10,079 --> 01:26:13,520
Uh So, I I just I think those two are

1906
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:16,640
gonna miss time. And as much as the negative on

1907
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:18,720
off splits for Lebron or out there, and as much

1908
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:21,600
criticism as Davis has taken for being so bad or

1909
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:25,680
disinterested in transition on defense, like, it's still better if

1910
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:28,319
they're available for the Lakers, And I just don't think

1911
01:26:28,399 --> 01:26:31,399
history says they're good. Well, you hear some people tell it.

1912
01:26:31,399 --> 01:26:34,840
It's like, oh, Lebron's a negative, like whatever, Like It's

1913
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:37,319
just remember when Kawhi Leonard had a negative on off

1914
01:26:37,359 --> 01:26:39,119
with the Spurs a few years ago. It's like he

1915
01:26:39,199 --> 01:26:42,039
turned out okay after that. Uh, not health wise, but

1916
01:26:42,079 --> 01:26:45,680
in terms of like production wise. Like so, if you

1917
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:47,359
if you don't think they're good, those two guys are

1918
01:26:47,359 --> 01:26:49,079
gonna be on the floor as much as they have been,

1919
01:26:49,159 --> 01:26:50,840
you have to say they're gonna be worse. The only

1920
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:52,880
way you say things will get better is if they

1921
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:54,359
do swing a massive trade.

1922
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:55,319
Speaker 1: And I just.

1923
01:26:55,359 --> 01:26:57,960
Speaker 2: Think I just think that's that shouldn't be the path

1924
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:58,520
they go down.

1925
01:26:59,199 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 1: They I feel like they have a button they haven't

1926
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:03,880
pressed yet. Would Ronnie just dropped thirty points to ju

1927
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:05,319
week thirty?

1928
01:27:06,239 --> 01:27:09,319
Speaker 2: Oh boy, yeah, the togs passed.

1929
01:27:09,359 --> 01:27:13,079
Speaker 1: It might be here. I sorry, you could go back

1930
01:27:13,079 --> 01:27:14,119
to your point because I think.

1931
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 2: You're about to make what I mean, do you do

1932
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:17,600
you disagree? Do you think they'll be better or worse?

1933
01:27:18,119 --> 01:27:20,199
Speaker 1: The only I was your point about them. The only

1934
01:27:20,199 --> 01:27:22,760
way they're gonna get better is if they make trades.

1935
01:27:23,359 --> 01:27:26,560
I'm asking this question. It's it's an absurd question. Is

1936
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,039
there a more cowardly front office in the NBA than

1937
01:27:29,039 --> 01:27:30,600
the Lakers when it comes to making trades.

1938
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:34,079
Speaker 2: Uh, they traded a lot of good things for Russell

1939
01:27:34,079 --> 01:27:36,520
Westbrook one time, Dan, so that was pretty brave.

1940
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:38,800
Speaker 1: It's like Chicago with the bad taste in their mouth

1941
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:40,279
from the Woo's trades. And we're not gonna make any

1942
01:27:40,319 --> 01:27:41,079
big trades.

1943
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:43,560
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, we're not good at this. We're just not

1944
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:47,520
gonna do it. I was thinking the other day, can't

1945
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:50,680
you view their what has it been? I mean, the

1946
01:27:51,199 --> 01:27:53,439
Westbrook trade is the last big trade they made, right,

1947
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:55,800
Like there's there hasn't been anything really hatcha Mura, I

1948
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:59,199
guess would be one. Uh, but I kind of am

1949
01:27:59,199 --> 01:28:02,880
starting to wonder if you can view their like I

1950
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:06,960
don't know, judicious approach to adding big names, as like

1951
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:10,640
we can't build a team around a forty year old,

1952
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:13,319
like that's insane. We like, we can't keep trying to

1953
01:28:13,319 --> 01:28:16,920
win now because Lebron is still in his prime, Like

1954
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:20,479
that's was there foresight, maybe if we're being charitable to

1955
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:23,840
the front office to say, like Lebron can't be the guy,

1956
01:28:24,399 --> 01:28:26,720
Anthony Davis maybe can't be the guy. Why are we

1957
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:29,159
gonna go trade the picks we have now when we

1958
01:28:29,239 --> 01:28:32,199
know we're on the precipice of like the post Lebron

1959
01:28:32,239 --> 01:28:33,560
era when we're gonna need those.

1960
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:37,119
Speaker 1: I actually think that's a very cold rational way of

1961
01:28:37,119 --> 01:28:40,720
looking at things, which I think is the front office's job. Yeah,

1962
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:42,600
why is Anthony Davis still on this team?

1963
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:42,760
Speaker 2: Then?

1964
01:28:43,359 --> 01:28:43,960
Speaker 1: Because you're not?

1965
01:28:44,039 --> 01:28:46,159
Speaker 2: That would be the coldest, most rational way to look

1966
01:28:46,199 --> 01:28:48,479
at it is we got to trade our number one asset.

1967
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:51,720
Speaker 1: Now, what are you preserving your assets for? Then? Because

1968
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:54,920
you're you're also a Lakers team that is never like, Okay,

1969
01:28:55,319 --> 01:28:58,199
you haven't rebuilt through the draft in how many years?

1970
01:28:58,359 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 2: You tried for a minute there, and then you trade

1971
01:28:59,960 --> 01:29:01,840
it all for Anthony Davis basically.

1972
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:03,479
Speaker 1: Which is just I mean, you want a title. You know,

1973
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:04,840
I don't care that it was in the bubble. You

1974
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:07,199
want a championship. You have to apologize for absolutely nothing

1975
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:11,119
everything else thereafter. I just pick a direction then that

1976
01:29:11,159 --> 01:29:13,199
would make them, you know what, make them better. They

1977
01:29:13,199 --> 01:29:14,960
could lose every single game for the rest of this

1978
01:29:15,039 --> 01:29:17,800
season if it's because that they committed to a longer

1979
01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:20,479
term view. And I get that. If Lebron doesn't want

1980
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:22,239
to leave and you're trying to sell tickets, why would

1981
01:29:22,239 --> 01:29:24,279
you I'm not saying get rid of him, but why

1982
01:29:24,279 --> 01:29:27,199
would Anthony Davis, What is the messaging you've been sending

1983
01:29:27,239 --> 01:29:29,520
to him? By the way, who shares an agent with

1984
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:32,199
Lebron So are you all just in Anthony Davis is

1985
01:29:32,239 --> 01:29:36,600
okay putting up numbers for a team that's sub media.

1986
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:39,079
I just find that aspect of it tough to believe.

1987
01:29:39,159 --> 01:29:42,439
I honestly do think that there's a really big disconnect

1988
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:45,800
between what the Lakers think they are internally and what

1989
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:49,840
they actually are. Isn't there isn't always a disconnect, but

1990
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:53,560
they've refused to upgrade the roster for like the closest

1991
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,000
they've come is the addition by subtraction with the Russell

1992
01:29:56,039 --> 01:29:56,840
Westbrook trade.

1993
01:29:57,079 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 2: Sure do you do you think? This is what is?

1994
01:30:00,079 --> 01:30:02,359
Made me think back to like when JJ Reddick was

1995
01:30:02,399 --> 01:30:05,520
doing press after he got hired. He kept referring to

1996
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:08,000
this as a program. Remember that, Like, I know, I'm

1997
01:30:08,039 --> 01:30:10,880
probably reading too much into it, but it's like that

1998
01:30:10,960 --> 01:30:13,760
really felt like in hindsight and maybe in the moment

1999
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:17,039
to some extent, a guy that knew he was signing

2000
01:30:17,079 --> 01:30:19,479
on for like this isn't just like we're chasing a

2001
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:21,720
title now, And maybe he even said that and talking

2002
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:24,800
about sustainability and like putting the right processes and structures

2003
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:27,920
in place and all this development stuff like it. It

2004
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:31,720
feels clear and clear that maybe he came into this

2005
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:35,319
with eyes open as far as like what and what

2006
01:30:35,359 --> 01:30:38,279
the reality is of having your best two players be

2007
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:41,039
on the I mean, Davis is I don't know, like

2008
01:30:41,319 --> 01:30:42,520
to quit Davis.

2009
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:44,640
Speaker 1: He would still get a boatload for Davis if you

2010
01:30:44,640 --> 01:30:45,720
put him on the trade.

2011
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:47,760
Speaker 2: Block, you'd get a ton Yeah, yeah, for sure.

2012
01:30:49,039 --> 01:30:50,720
Speaker 1: Do you think that they were also kind of because

2013
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:52,239
you and I I don't know if we were joking,

2014
01:30:52,279 --> 01:30:54,880
but we had this discussion because I remember talking to

2015
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:58,159
you about it. Were they also telegraphing they went after

2016
01:30:58,279 --> 01:31:00,880
Dan Hurley, which that was a move that he would

2017
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:04,239
have made, and they went after him after him. That's

2018
01:31:04,239 --> 01:31:06,279
not a move that you would think of a champ,

2019
01:31:06,399 --> 01:31:09,239
like a team that has I'm not even saying championship aspirations,

2020
01:31:09,239 --> 01:31:10,399
but top six in the West.

2021
01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:10,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2022
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:13,560
Speaker 1: And then remember the framing of they're excited about how

2023
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:17,479
JJ Reddick can help develop Ronnie and Max Christy and

2024
01:31:18,119 --> 01:31:20,319
thirty two year old Austin Reeves or however old years

2025
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:22,359
or whatever. I love that.

2026
01:31:23,079 --> 01:31:25,039
Speaker 2: I love this theory of the Lakers now that like

2027
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:29,760
they never were gonna like, quote unquote go for it,

2028
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:31,760
even though you have one of the best players of

2029
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:34,239
all time, maybe the best player of all time, playing

2030
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:38,399
somewhere close to all NBA level, like but not. And

2031
01:31:38,399 --> 01:31:40,720
then Anthony Davis, who is an All NBA player, Like,

2032
01:31:41,159 --> 01:31:43,720
did they come into this season knowing or maybe just

2033
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:46,159
going like, we'll see what it is, but if it's

2034
01:31:46,199 --> 01:31:48,960
not great, we're not gonna just you know, burn the

2035
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:51,520
house down to try to get the you know, six

2036
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:54,319
seed or whatever, like, and they.

2037
01:31:54,239 --> 01:31:56,399
Speaker 1: Don't, And I'm selling why wouldn't you trade? I still

2038
01:31:56,399 --> 01:31:58,199
would trade Anthony Davis because I think you're at a

2039
01:31:58,239 --> 01:32:00,920
point in his career where his value could decline from here.

2040
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:03,319
And I'd argue, now it's high, but you don't have

2041
01:32:03,399 --> 01:32:05,199
your own first round pick this year, so there's not

2042
01:32:05,239 --> 01:32:09,039
necessarily value in like we're rebuilding, So I understand that

2043
01:32:09,159 --> 01:32:11,800
point of it, but I also don't.

2044
01:32:13,119 --> 01:32:15,239
Speaker 2: I think it's a circle all the way back, like

2045
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:17,880
if you're not buying into our whole, like the Lakers

2046
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:20,800
actually are playing the long game and all that stuff,

2047
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:23,119
like the two best players are just not going to

2048
01:32:23,159 --> 01:32:25,600
be as available as they have been, and and that's

2049
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:26,880
just they're gonna be work.

2050
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:29,640
Speaker 1: Or they're not going to make even if they think

2051
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:31,600
that they're going to be better. I think we've seen

2052
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:33,760
that this front office is not going to make a

2053
01:32:33,760 --> 01:32:37,039
big mid season move to do that. Yeah, our next team.

2054
01:32:37,439 --> 01:32:40,560
I wanted to ask this the Oklahoma City Thunder. I

2055
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:42,840
gave them an a minus. By the way, in report

2056
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:47,600
card grades, Thunder fans were livid. I just have concerns

2057
01:32:48,199 --> 01:32:51,880
about the offense. It feels sticky at points. I think

2058
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:55,199
I think they're gonna win the West, do I ever?

2059
01:32:55,359 --> 01:32:57,319
I get accused of being a Thunder homer and I

2060
01:32:57,359 --> 01:33:00,680
didn't give them an a plus and excuse of being

2061
01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:01,279
an asshole.

2062
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:02,199
Speaker 2: I love this.

2063
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:06,079
Speaker 1: I love this business. It's so great. Here's my here's

2064
01:33:06,119 --> 01:33:07,520
my I don't want to spend a lot of time

2065
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:10,239
on this. You haven't had chet Holgren and I say

2066
01:33:10,239 --> 01:33:12,520
a heart instead available in the same game. Is there

2067
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:15,800
a chance that this team is just going to be

2068
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:18,439
better this season from here on out? And the answer

2069
01:33:18,479 --> 01:33:23,920
is yes, yeah, right, yes, that's it. There's unless you

2070
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:25,439
don't think he's not gonna come back.

2071
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:29,199
Speaker 2: I don't like what even if he doesn't, you still

2072
01:33:29,199 --> 01:33:30,960
have Hartenstein. You didn't have either of them.

2073
01:33:31,079 --> 01:33:33,680
Speaker 1: For I think it becomes one. If I tell you

2074
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:35,399
Chet Holger is not gonna play for the rest of

2075
01:33:35,399 --> 01:33:37,880
the year. We could have a conversation about will okay

2076
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:40,239
See continue to win at a sixty five victory pace.

2077
01:33:40,319 --> 01:33:43,239
That would be now just like they're gonna be. We

2078
01:33:43,279 --> 01:33:46,079
haven't even seen peak OKAYC yet, is my point. I

2079
01:33:46,119 --> 01:33:48,199
think that's right our next team. I think this is

2080
01:33:48,359 --> 01:33:51,319
gonna be more of a real discussion the Suns. They

2081
01:33:52,399 --> 01:33:55,920
can't win without Kevin Durant, mister Hughes, which, by the way,

2082
01:33:56,119 --> 01:34:00,439
before you said this, you said granted you, and it

2083
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:02,279
kind of sounded like Grant Hughes And I never thought

2084
01:34:02,279 --> 01:34:04,680
like if you ever use the phrasing granted you. Now

2085
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:07,399
it's like you're just saying the co like the one

2086
01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:09,439
of the co hosts of the most popular NBA podcast

2087
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:10,800
in the business name that's really cool.

2088
01:34:11,039 --> 01:34:12,640
Speaker 2: I just like to get my name out there. That's all.

2089
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 1: Where are you at? So the Suns? I don't know

2090
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:19,520
what to make in the Suns. I think we can

2091
01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:23,039
point to weaknesses of their too tiny. I just look

2092
01:34:23,079 --> 01:34:25,159
at them and I say, I think Devin Booker will

2093
01:34:25,159 --> 01:34:29,439
play better and like and he's still been like when

2094
01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:31,119
you look at the numbers and something like, he's still

2095
01:34:31,159 --> 01:34:33,920
been good, but he hasn't been Devin Booker. I just

2096
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:37,199
their level of dependence on an age thirty five year

2097
01:34:37,199 --> 01:34:40,840
old Kevin Durant at both ends of the floor disturbs me.

2098
01:34:41,079 --> 01:34:42,359
Is that too strong a word?

2099
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:46,159
Speaker 2: No, I mean it's it. So they're roughly five hundred team,

2100
01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:48,880
except what is it nine and one with Durant or

2101
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:54,079
something and nine without him or something like that. I

2102
01:34:54,119 --> 01:34:58,079
think they're like, oh and twenty completely reverse splits. I mean,

2103
01:34:58,520 --> 01:35:02,359
so if isn't it just I mean, this is almost

2104
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:05,680
like an embiid thing, but more so like, if Durant

2105
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:08,960
can get healthy and stay healthy, then I you they'll

2106
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:11,760
be better. And if he can't, or if it's this

2107
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:14,680
you know what, two weeks on, three weeks off thing

2108
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:16,920
or whatever for the rest of the season, then this

2109
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:20,159
is just what they are. I guess you probably got

2110
01:35:20,319 --> 01:35:23,279
to say they'll be better, because I agree Booker should

2111
01:35:23,359 --> 01:35:26,159
be better. I think they they're probably gonna trade that

2112
01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:29,439
twenty thirty one pick for something right like they're I.

2113
01:35:29,399 --> 01:35:31,520
Speaker 1: Do agree that they're the team most likely to trade

2114
01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:34,119
a pick twenty thirty or later. Do you actually think

2115
01:35:34,119 --> 01:35:34,880
they're gonna move it.

2116
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:40,319
Speaker 2: What about what about their recent history suggests that they're

2117
01:35:40,359 --> 01:35:41,920
precious with their draft assets?

2118
01:35:42,399 --> 01:35:44,680
Speaker 1: Well, because they kept this one past the off season.

2119
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:49,439
Speaker 2: Okay, fair, fair point. I think No. I think they

2120
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:52,199
are very likely to just make more window moves because

2121
01:35:52,199 --> 01:35:54,960
that's all they've done. And at this point, like you

2122
01:35:55,079 --> 01:35:58,000
can't even view them in like an objective or like

2123
01:35:58,119 --> 01:36:01,520
rational sense. It's just like, you've come this far, you

2124
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:05,239
can't like now isn't the time to start like looking

2125
01:36:05,279 --> 01:36:07,600
at the future. It just like you just got to

2126
01:36:07,680 --> 01:36:09,840
keep going, like dig the hole deeper. I guess is

2127
01:36:10,279 --> 01:36:10,920
what you should do.

2128
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:13,600
Speaker 1: I think one of a few of the reasons, they'll

2129
01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:15,279
be better and it might all be low hanging fruit.

2130
01:36:15,359 --> 01:36:17,840
And Kevin Durrant will just be more available. I know

2131
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:20,359
he's had a bunch of and I incorrectly said this.

2132
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:23,039
I don't know that he's he's never dealt with chronic

2133
01:36:23,079 --> 01:36:25,520
injuries and he's never really been like super injury prone.

2134
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:27,359
He's just dealt with stuff, and he had those two

2135
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:31,600
major ones back to back, so he'll probably be more available.

2136
01:36:32,039 --> 01:36:34,079
The other thing is I think Devin Booker will play better,

2137
01:36:34,159 --> 01:36:35,880
Like if we're having this conversation a month from now,

2138
01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:37,960
I think we've seen a completely different version of Devin Booker.

2139
01:36:38,239 --> 01:36:41,039
The lowest hanging fruit might be who was the worst

2140
01:36:41,319 --> 01:36:44,039
center you could insert on this team, and you would

2141
01:36:44,039 --> 01:36:46,680
think that they It would just change the complexion of

2142
01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:49,079
the Suns almost entirely. Like if you put a healthy

2143
01:36:49,159 --> 01:36:52,479
Nick Richards in Phoenix. I think we're talking about a

2144
01:36:52,479 --> 01:36:54,279
defense that's not twenty fifth in points a loud per

2145
01:36:54,279 --> 01:36:55,199
possession in the half court.

2146
01:36:56,279 --> 01:36:57,960
Speaker 2: I think that's possible. I think if you just play

2147
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:01,560
a Gadaro more or like, I don't know.

2148
01:37:02,520 --> 01:37:04,399
Speaker 1: They're done in the igodar o it all. I just

2149
01:37:05,119 --> 01:37:06,840
this is old school of me, I guess. But they're

2150
01:37:06,920 --> 01:37:09,159
rookies on a team with contender aspirations, and it's can

2151
01:37:09,199 --> 01:37:11,680
you ever play them enough minutes and that'll boot as

2152
01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:15,680
depth sure as like a primary lineup crux. It almost

2153
01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:18,000
feels like they just need upgrade at center. And the

2154
01:37:18,039 --> 01:37:20,479
other thing I would say is it feels like they

2155
01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:23,479
need a two way wing who's taller than Royce O'Neill.

2156
01:37:23,920 --> 01:37:25,520
Is that the best way to frame I think that's

2157
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:26,439
the best way to frame it.

2158
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:28,600
Speaker 2: That seems fair. I think like if you zoom all

2159
01:37:28,600 --> 01:37:30,000
the way out, and you just look at what their

2160
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:32,600
incentives are, because like sometimes if you say, well, they're

2161
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:35,039
gonna be worse, then you're pricing in like maybe they'll tank,

2162
01:37:35,199 --> 01:37:38,000
or like maybe they'll uh, you know, trade veterans for

2163
01:37:38,239 --> 01:37:41,039
young players and picks like those aren't happening, so we

2164
01:37:41,159 --> 01:37:43,279
rule those out in the calculus, and then it's just like, well,

2165
01:37:43,319 --> 01:37:47,399
are they more likely to trade that distant first for something? Yeah?

2166
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:49,039
I think so. So I think you have to say

2167
01:37:49,039 --> 01:37:52,720
they're going to be better independent of Durant and Bookers

2168
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:55,199
the Booker arguments, which I think are also pretty compelling.

2169
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:59,800
Speaker 1: Would you trade Grayson Allen and the twenty thirty one?

2170
01:38:00,039 --> 01:38:02,000
Actually I should confirm that I know what Grayson Allen

2171
01:38:02,039 --> 01:38:04,399
is making because the Sons are a second Apron team

2172
01:38:04,600 --> 01:38:06,880
and the player that I'm thinking, I think it would

2173
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:07,239
still work.

2174
01:38:07,239 --> 01:38:08,399
Speaker 2: He's a fifty thou.

2175
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:14,359
Speaker 1: So fifteen point six. So would you trade Grayson Allen

2176
01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:17,199
and a two thousand and thirty one first round pick

2177
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:20,560
for Robert Williams the third and to get back to

2178
01:38:20,640 --> 01:38:21,359
Monty Kamara?

2179
01:38:22,239 --> 01:38:26,159
Speaker 2: Ooh yeah, I would. I think I would.

2180
01:38:26,359 --> 01:38:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean not Portland would, because there's a purpose there.

2181
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:32,439
But to MONI, Kamara is really fucking good, but that

2182
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:34,920
twenty thirty one first Man in a Vacuum.

2183
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:38,119
Speaker 2: I wouldn't but for the sons and just what they

2184
01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:42,359
seem to care about. Like I find the sons, I would, oh, no,

2185
01:38:42,479 --> 01:38:44,720
we can't. You know, we've lost another pick who cares.

2186
01:38:45,079 --> 01:38:47,119
Speaker 1: I would be trying to pawn off use of Nurkic

2187
01:38:47,199 --> 01:38:49,920
instead of Grayson Allen. But I don't think you're not

2188
01:38:50,039 --> 01:38:52,279
giving up that. I mean, you might get Robert Williams

2189
01:38:52,359 --> 01:38:54,800
back and then they'll insert salary filler, but I don't

2190
01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:58,399
think you're getting like Nurkic in twenty thirty one. That's

2191
01:38:58,439 --> 01:39:00,880
not enough for Kamara and Robert Williams the third if

2192
01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:01,880
you're Portland right.

2193
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:07,239
Speaker 2: Probably not because really just because Kamara might be someone

2194
01:39:07,239 --> 01:39:09,800
that you think is going forward.

2195
01:39:10,199 --> 01:39:13,039
Speaker 1: And yes to anyone who's already commenting, we know Nurkic

2196
01:39:13,159 --> 01:39:15,840
was traded away from Portland very much aware.

2197
01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:18,560
Speaker 2: It's like we know Kamara was supposed to be a

2198
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:19,600
son to be in with.

2199
01:39:20,079 --> 01:39:21,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with better as well, though I'm with

2200
01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:25,039
you on that one. The Sacramento Kings.

2201
01:39:25,279 --> 01:39:27,800
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a tough one, so they gotta

2202
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:31,000
be better, right like they just I'm gonna take it

2203
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:31,640
a step further.

2204
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:34,039
Speaker 1: I think I've reached the point where I'm a bigger

2205
01:39:34,079 --> 01:39:38,000
believer in the Sacramento Kings than Sacramento Kings fans. Oh.

2206
01:39:38,079 --> 01:39:41,119
I just feel like they're right there and that you're

2207
01:39:41,119 --> 01:39:44,199
gonna get some more. I'll call it shooting progression from

2208
01:39:44,239 --> 01:39:46,520
Kevin Hurder already looks better. I think Keith and Murray

2209
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:48,439
will get better. They're in a weird spot where they're

2210
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:50,720
shot profile. They have the worst rim or three frequency

2211
01:39:50,720 --> 01:39:53,720
in the league, but they're only losing the three point

2212
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:57,479
battle by nine points per one hundred possessions, so three

2213
01:39:57,520 --> 01:40:00,880
makes per one hundred. That's not right. But that's not

2214
01:40:01,039 --> 01:40:03,039
the end of the world, and it's does that gap

2215
01:40:03,079 --> 01:40:06,079
get bridged as Kevin Herder continues to play better, as

2216
01:40:06,159 --> 01:40:08,600
Keegan Murray plays better. I think if they just get

2217
01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:11,119
like a combo big or maybe someone that you could

2218
01:40:11,159 --> 01:40:14,199
play during minutes with your main players, and that opens

2219
01:40:14,279 --> 01:40:16,039
up the floor for Keegan Murray a little bit more

2220
01:40:16,039 --> 01:40:18,199
where it feels like he's had to work harder for

2221
01:40:18,239 --> 01:40:21,920
some of his shots. I think that would be the move.

2222
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:24,000
But I look at them and you look at their

2223
01:40:24,079 --> 01:40:28,520
vitals too. Their defense statistically is just overachieved relative to

2224
01:40:28,520 --> 01:40:30,720
personnel they should. They have no business being a lead

2225
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:33,720
average defensive team. No, and I view that as a

2226
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:36,279
good harbinger for them. I think the Aaron Fox has

2227
01:40:36,319 --> 01:40:39,760
been mostly great. I think Demarta Rosen has been as advertised.

2228
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:42,560
I think the same with Domot like Sabonis like, he's

2229
01:40:42,600 --> 01:40:45,279
not super like, he's not worse from last year. Certainly

2230
01:40:45,279 --> 01:40:46,880
when he was did he make an All NBA team?

2231
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:48,760
He was in contention for an All NBA team. So

2232
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:52,560
I think you get into some issues with the fact

2233
01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:54,720
that all four of their I guess you could say

2234
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:57,680
most well, four of their five most important players are

2235
01:40:57,680 --> 01:40:59,720
probably Molie Monk d Aaron Fox to Marta Rosen and

2236
01:40:59,720 --> 01:41:04,399
to some bonus there's some counterintuitive fit going on there

2237
01:41:04,399 --> 01:41:06,079
in the sense of, well, how much defense are you're

2238
01:41:06,079 --> 01:41:07,920
getting out of that group? How often can you play

2239
01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:10,479
them together? I just look at this team. They're a

2240
01:41:10,520 --> 01:41:13,119
little top heavy right now, but I think they could

2241
01:41:13,159 --> 01:41:15,199
make They're among the teams that I think could make

2242
01:41:15,239 --> 01:41:18,000
a trade that's we look at it and say, oh,

2243
01:41:18,039 --> 01:41:20,560
that's a middle rung type trade, and yet the Kings

2244
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:22,359
wind up being a lot better off because of it.

2245
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:24,960
Speaker 2: I think that's exactly right. And to that point, like

2246
01:41:25,960 --> 01:41:28,359
the lineups that we thought they would use most have

2247
01:41:28,439 --> 01:41:31,800
all worked. And now like I think both of us

2248
01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:34,800
came in thinking Kean Ellis is gonna start and keep

2249
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:37,319
it right and he and he hasn't and he hasn't

2250
01:41:37,359 --> 01:41:40,800
been what we thought. But the lineup with Fox, Ellis, DeRozan,

2251
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:43,720
Murray Sabonis, which which I thought was gonna be, it

2252
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:46,880
hasn't been. They're plus almost plus twenty five per hundred.

2253
01:41:47,439 --> 01:41:50,520
The two lineups that have played more than that are both,

2254
01:41:51,119 --> 01:41:53,279
So I'll just give them to you Fox Monk DeRozan,

2255
01:41:53,359 --> 01:41:57,039
Murray Sabonis plus nine point eight, Fox Herder DeRozan, Murray

2256
01:41:57,079 --> 01:41:59,359
Sabonis plus seven point two. Those are the three most

2257
01:41:59,479 --> 01:42:03,840
used lineups. You've got to go down eight nine lineups.

2258
01:42:04,039 --> 01:42:07,119
Their nine most used lineups are all positive. So this

2259
01:42:07,319 --> 01:42:10,199
just goes to shit when you don't have basically you know,

2260
01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:14,079
five of your six or seven best players on the floor.

2261
01:42:14,119 --> 01:42:16,439
So it is a bench issue that really that that's

2262
01:42:16,479 --> 01:42:18,279
the long and short of it. So if you can

2263
01:42:18,399 --> 01:42:21,159
make that middle wrung trade and get just another live

2264
01:42:21,199 --> 01:42:24,039
body that can help you're getting what you thought you

2265
01:42:24,079 --> 01:42:26,439
were gonna get from all your most important players, so

2266
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:29,359
like and then that's to say nothing of like Keigan

2267
01:42:29,439 --> 01:42:31,960
Murray has gotta be better, Like he's just he's gonna

2268
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:34,439
make shots at some point. And and like the you

2269
01:42:34,439 --> 01:42:37,000
can you can rejigger the math game so you're not

2270
01:42:37,079 --> 01:42:39,039
taking the most mid rangers in the league too, Like

2271
01:42:39,079 --> 01:42:42,079
there's so many ways for things to trend up. I

2272
01:42:42,399 --> 01:42:44,840
get that it feels bleak right now or like very

2273
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:48,479
disappointing maybe, but like you almost have to you have

2274
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:52,560
to try really hard to find a statistical argument for

2275
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:54,800
why things will get worse, right, Like, I don't know

2276
01:42:54,840 --> 01:42:55,800
what that argument is.

2277
01:42:56,159 --> 01:42:58,760
Speaker 1: I honestly, I don't even know if they need like

2278
01:42:58,800 --> 01:43:00,760
the change they probably do to change the math of

2279
01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:02,600
their offense. Like one of their biggest things when you

2280
01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:05,119
watch them is because of how committed they are to

2281
01:43:05,199 --> 01:43:07,479
limiting attempts at the rim, because they don't have good

2282
01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:12,119
rim protectors on this team, it really impacts their closeouts

2283
01:43:12,199 --> 01:43:13,800
on three point shooters. And I know we're saying you

2284
01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:16,720
can't affect three point shooting that much, but like even

2285
01:43:16,800 --> 01:43:18,840
Kegan Murray, who I said at the beginning of the

2286
01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:21,720
season is probably the most underrated defender in basketball. I

2287
01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:24,359
still think the workload he has, he's fine there. His

2288
01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:28,279
clothes ats are like they're unpleasantly anarchic sometimes where he

2289
01:43:28,439 --> 01:43:30,800
has to shoot such large gaps because the Kings are

2290
01:43:30,800 --> 01:43:33,119
so committed to making sure that opponents aren't getting all

2291
01:43:33,159 --> 01:43:35,119
the way to the basket. So if you can get

2292
01:43:35,279 --> 01:43:37,399
I'm not saying we know sobonus is the five. I'm

2293
01:43:37,399 --> 01:43:39,079
not like you're trying to build your team that way.

2294
01:43:39,119 --> 01:43:41,520
Perfectly fine, Like if you just get a better reserve

2295
01:43:41,600 --> 01:43:43,960
big than Trey Lyles, or maybe even a better rim

2296
01:43:44,039 --> 01:43:46,560
protector who could play next to Sabonis, which I think

2297
01:43:46,640 --> 01:43:48,640
that's probably a little bit harder to find the ladder,

2298
01:43:48,640 --> 01:43:49,640
I would argue, mister.

2299
01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:51,520
Speaker 2: Robert Williams team, maybe that's just it.

2300
01:43:52,119 --> 01:43:54,800
Speaker 1: I've I've floated that. I think to Greg Whistlinger when

2301
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:56,560
we were doing the look Ahead pod and he wasn't

2302
01:43:56,600 --> 01:44:00,560
into it, then maybe he's into it now and he's

2303
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:02,239
not a good enough room protector. But like Larry Nis

2304
01:44:02,279 --> 01:44:04,199
Junior is a name I've mentioned over and over again,

2305
01:44:04,319 --> 01:44:06,920
just someone to Nick Richards, like we're gonna recycle. This

2306
01:44:07,079 --> 01:44:10,600
might just stabilize some of the minutes. There so a

2307
01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:13,159
change like that where it allows you to play or

2308
01:44:13,199 --> 01:44:16,000
defend differently during some of your minutes, or more like

2309
01:44:16,399 --> 01:44:19,039
there'd be more variants in the way that your coverage

2310
01:44:19,079 --> 01:44:21,000
on defense. I think that could be huge for them

2311
01:44:21,039 --> 01:44:23,840
because you mentioned it. It really the bench stuff, but

2312
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:26,239
also just I can't get away from the numbers. Who

2313
01:44:26,319 --> 01:44:28,359
is on this team. Grant, they have no business being

2314
01:44:28,399 --> 01:44:30,760
thirteenth in points a loud per possession, do a great

2315
01:44:30,840 --> 01:44:34,079
job keeping opponents out of transition, even when they're missing jumpers.

2316
01:44:34,239 --> 01:44:36,199
They get iffy when they've like when they do actually

2317
01:44:36,199 --> 01:44:38,159
get to the basket and they miss shots or the

2318
01:44:38,199 --> 01:44:40,800
short mid rangers where they're deep into the other side

2319
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:42,760
of the court, they're not getting back as well. But

2320
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:45,000
I don't know. I'm not saying they're right there to

2321
01:44:45,039 --> 01:44:47,399
win a championship, but I think they're decidedly going to

2322
01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:47,760
be better.

2323
01:44:47,880 --> 01:44:49,800
Speaker 2: I think for sure. And I was gonna throw in

2324
01:44:49,880 --> 01:44:51,960
like I still as a playoff team, I think there's

2325
01:44:52,000 --> 01:44:55,640
just I don't think. I don't think this team has

2326
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:58,079
a very high ceiling. Like I don't see a way

2327
01:44:58,119 --> 01:45:01,159
the Kings get into the you know, okay, see Dallas

2328
01:45:01,199 --> 01:45:04,079
Memphis minute. I think like Minnesota, I think I've way

2329
01:45:04,119 --> 01:45:07,319
more faith in in Golden State, like maybe even Phoenix.

2330
01:45:07,359 --> 01:45:10,279
But like they're gonna win. I mean, they got to

2331
01:45:10,319 --> 01:45:12,479
finish with a high forties win total. I just I

2332
01:45:12,600 --> 01:45:15,479
just think all the best lineups suggest that, like that's

2333
01:45:15,479 --> 01:45:17,760
the expectation. They just got to figure out like one

2334
01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:19,920
or two more guys that can play fifteen minutes without

2335
01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:20,439
killing you.

2336
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:22,960
Speaker 1: I will say I'm less confident in them finishing top

2337
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:24,319
six in the West that I am Denver.

2338
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:26,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I forgot to say Denver, Denver. I've yeah,

2339
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:28,359
I would put Denver way ahead of them in terms

2340
01:45:28,359 --> 01:45:29,880
of like playoff equity.

2341
01:45:29,720 --> 01:45:32,680
Speaker 1: The spurs better or worse? And why is it better?

2342
01:45:33,239 --> 01:45:37,479
Speaker 2: Hmm. I that's an interesting one because I would you

2343
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:40,560
say they've pretty they've exceeded expectations, right, Like, I mean

2344
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:42,720
it depends because there was such a wide range of

2345
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:44,880
it was all just like well, how good could Wimby be?

2346
01:45:46,520 --> 01:45:49,760
I think, like, I don't know, do we have all

2347
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:53,239
the Steph castle stock? Can we get some more? I think,

2348
01:45:53,279 --> 01:45:55,520
like what if he just starts making He's been better

2349
01:45:55,560 --> 01:45:59,199
as a starter as offensively, like maybe he it's always

2350
01:45:59,239 --> 01:46:01,520
weird with rookies, it's like, are they gonna get that

2351
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:03,960
much better over the course of the season. I'm just

2352
01:46:04,079 --> 01:46:06,119
teeing it up for you because it's like, who's gonna

2353
01:46:06,159 --> 01:46:09,279
come into this rotation that's gonna make a huge positive difference.

2354
01:46:09,319 --> 01:46:10,439
I can't think of anybody.

2355
01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:15,239
Speaker 1: What if he's already there, grant Devin Vassell, Like, he's

2356
01:46:15,279 --> 01:46:17,840
only played nine games, he's averaging under twenty five minutes

2357
01:46:17,880 --> 01:46:20,239
a game. He's hit forty two point three percent of

2358
01:46:20,239 --> 01:46:23,760
his sixty three point attempts per game. And by the way,

2359
01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:26,399
this does not impact Devi Vesselle at the moment because

2360
01:46:26,439 --> 01:46:28,920
he's not a starter. But San Antonio starting lineup is

2361
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:32,439
destroying opponents right now. They're a plus eighteen point one

2362
01:46:32,439 --> 01:46:36,359
points per one hundred possessions. I do you assume, Like,

2363
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:39,359
but that's just a it's a side question. But do

2364
01:46:39,439 --> 01:46:41,720
you think Devin Vesselle is gonna stay off the like

2365
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:43,159
on the bench the entire season.

2366
01:46:43,520 --> 01:46:45,520
Speaker 2: Well, that's such a weird thing because it seems like

2367
01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:49,920
he's what you need in in this lineup right Like,

2368
01:46:49,960 --> 01:46:53,720
and for a minute there, vascell was like the prospect

2369
01:46:53,800 --> 01:46:57,319
on this team, Like he was the best guy. Now

2370
01:46:57,319 --> 01:46:59,479
you have the most hope of hitting an all star ceiling.

2371
01:47:00,079 --> 01:47:02,760
Speaker 1: I still think I love Steph Castle, but I still

2372
01:47:02,760 --> 01:47:04,720
have him as like the guy below Wemby for me.

2373
01:47:05,600 --> 01:47:08,720
But maybe they're thinking that he's not that guy. So

2374
01:47:08,960 --> 01:47:12,199
I I think. Look, they've been better on offense the

2375
01:47:12,239 --> 01:47:15,520
past month, their twelfth in points point scored per possession.

2376
01:47:16,039 --> 01:47:18,600
I do think their path to being better demseel is

2377
01:47:18,600 --> 01:47:19,920
gonna come in here, and I think that'll be a

2378
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:23,399
larger infusion over time. I don't have confident that. I

2379
01:47:23,399 --> 01:47:26,920
don't have confidence they're gonna make some mind melting trade

2380
01:47:27,359 --> 01:47:29,119
to do something, but they could, Like they could just

2381
01:47:29,199 --> 01:47:31,760
make a small trade. It doesn't have to be a blockbuster.

2382
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:34,079
That just improves the depth of their rotation and their

2383
01:47:34,079 --> 01:47:34,840
two way balance.

2384
01:47:35,399 --> 01:47:38,479
Speaker 2: Sorry, do you know how many lineups have played more

2385
01:47:38,520 --> 01:47:40,880
minutes than the starters for the Spurs that have a

2386
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:44,079
higher net rating in the entire league? So or three

2387
01:47:44,119 --> 01:47:48,640
hundred and nine possessions for that spurt for Paul Castle, Champagne,

2388
01:47:48,640 --> 01:47:49,920
Barnes and Wemby, how.

2389
01:47:49,760 --> 01:47:52,359
Speaker 1: Many have played I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna say

2390
01:47:52,399 --> 01:47:54,439
one because I'm gonna assume it's the nick starters.

2391
01:47:54,840 --> 01:47:59,239
Speaker 2: It's one and it's Boston starters, so oh, pretty good,

2392
01:47:59,359 --> 01:48:02,159
Spurs like pretty good. So yeah, what does that look

2393
01:48:02,239 --> 01:48:04,279
like if you have Vasel in there? Or it's just

2394
01:48:04,319 --> 01:48:07,479
like Champagne's been good, actually really good. It's a good

2395
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:11,439
Champagnee season right now if you have dev Vasel in

2396
01:48:11,479 --> 01:48:14,760
there playing more, I man, yeah, are they going to

2397
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:17,520
be better? They're five hundred right now. I think they

2398
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:17,880
might be.

2399
01:48:18,239 --> 01:48:19,960
Speaker 1: I could have got and say better.

2400
01:48:20,359 --> 01:48:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I go better too. That lineup is

2401
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:24,680
so good, Like it's the kind of the King's argument,

2402
01:48:24,800 --> 01:48:26,560
just get like one or two guys that can help

2403
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:28,399
in your your set of Toronto.

2404
01:48:28,479 --> 01:48:30,439
Speaker 1: After mister Hughes, this was we're throwing this one in

2405
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:31,880
as just sort of a ceremonial.

2406
01:48:32,279 --> 01:48:36,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I had this case made for them before

2407
01:48:36,600 --> 01:48:39,159
Scottie Barnes got hurt that maybe you could some of

2408
01:48:39,199 --> 01:48:42,439
it still applies, but I just it was really built

2409
01:48:42,439 --> 01:48:44,560
on like Kelly Linok had just come back when I

2410
01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:48,119
started thinking about this, and quickly I can't remember how

2411
01:48:48,119 --> 01:48:50,920
far off he is with the elbow, but like Kelly

2412
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:53,359
Linox shot almost thirty nine percent from three last year.

2413
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:56,760
Quickly was just under forty percent last year, and I

2414
01:48:56,800 --> 01:49:00,279
was thinking about just introducing two shooters like that quickly

2415
01:49:00,399 --> 01:49:02,079
is gonna be on the ball some or a lot

2416
01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:06,920
more Barns out. Yeah, But the theory of Okay, you've

2417
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:10,039
got two shooters the defenses really care about, and you've

2418
01:49:10,039 --> 01:49:14,079
got like just this glut of facilitating players that aren't

2419
01:49:14,199 --> 01:49:16,800
point guards like Barrett, and you've got Grady Dick can

2420
01:49:16,840 --> 01:49:19,000
do stuff with the ball. And then Scottie Barnes before

2421
01:49:19,039 --> 01:49:20,680
he got hurt and set to miss a bunch of

2422
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:22,960
time with the ankle. So the theory was gonna be

2423
01:49:23,159 --> 01:49:25,680
just like, you have all these guys that are elite

2424
01:49:25,800 --> 01:49:28,920
at their position in assist percentage, and you're gonna add

2425
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:31,960
two shooters to that group that hopefully will stay healthy.

2426
01:49:32,319 --> 01:49:36,279
So this team that averages the fifth most potential assists

2427
01:49:36,279 --> 01:49:38,239
in the league, when I put these numbers together, like

2428
01:49:38,319 --> 01:49:40,159
they're just gonna make more of those, like the shots

2429
01:49:40,159 --> 01:49:44,199
are being created like in large quantities, they'll just make more.

2430
01:49:44,239 --> 01:49:46,479
They were twenty third and three point accuracy just before

2431
01:49:46,520 --> 01:49:49,479
Barnes got hurt. So my thinking was the offense has

2432
01:49:49,560 --> 01:49:52,760
like a ton of upside just because you add shooting

2433
01:49:52,800 --> 01:49:55,840
to facilitation and there you go. I don't know how

2434
01:49:55,840 --> 01:49:58,520
I feel about it. Without Barnes, I think, like, now

2435
01:49:58,600 --> 01:50:02,640
you're you're really down your main playmaking guy. But there's

2436
01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:05,479
some argument the offense could be at least as good,

2437
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:08,640
but better is harder to get behind now that you've

2438
01:50:08,640 --> 01:50:09,600
lost your best player.

2439
01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:12,439
Speaker 1: I think you have to go worse because of the

2440
01:50:12,479 --> 01:50:15,199
barn stuff. And then also they're gonna then reach a

2441
01:50:15,239 --> 01:50:18,800
point where the lineups are gonna get weird, yes, the

2442
01:50:18,800 --> 01:50:21,960
rest of the season. I guess you could say that, well,

2443
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:24,159
they're bad enough right now to where if the season

2444
01:50:24,159 --> 01:50:27,880
had ended today, they're still looking at top four lottery odds.

2445
01:50:28,199 --> 01:50:30,960
But there's gonna be other teams that are tanking their

2446
01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:32,600
hearts out at some point and you're gonna have to

2447
01:50:32,680 --> 01:50:35,000
keep pace with them. So that's why I have I mean,

2448
01:50:35,039 --> 01:50:37,640
but also just you look at their win total right now,

2449
01:50:39,279 --> 01:50:41,880
they could theoretically just win more than twenty seven percent

2450
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:43,840
of their games, right Yeah, But.

2451
01:50:44,159 --> 01:50:47,399
Speaker 2: Like I mean, they they they're still gonna be kind

2452
01:50:47,399 --> 01:50:49,880
of fun even without Barns. Like we've they're they're the

2453
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:52,199
most fun bad team in the league right now.

2454
01:50:52,439 --> 01:50:54,520
Speaker 1: I think that's the take, one of the takes we've

2455
01:50:54,520 --> 01:50:56,680
had this season that have aged the best is we

2456
01:50:56,760 --> 01:51:00,000
recorded that segment on the Toronto Raptors are the perfect

2457
01:51:00,159 --> 01:51:02,720
kind of bad. Yeah, and it still just rings true.

2458
01:51:03,359 --> 01:51:06,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's what a bummer about Barnes, Like, I mean, yeah,

2459
01:51:07,560 --> 01:51:10,039
the steering into the skid argument is like even if

2460
01:51:10,079 --> 01:51:11,840
you think, oh, they'll be about the same, Like the

2461
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:14,279
innocentives are what they are for this team, So I

2462
01:51:14,319 --> 01:51:15,479
think I gotta go worse with you.

2463
01:51:16,439 --> 01:51:18,680
Speaker 1: That does it. We went through fourteen teams used and

2464
01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:21,239
our lightning round was not through to form, not very

2465
01:51:21,319 --> 01:51:24,520
lightning me. Is that a word? Are you ready to

2466
01:51:24,520 --> 01:51:25,239
take us out of here?

2467
01:51:25,359 --> 01:51:27,439
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sorry to end on a down note with the Raptors,

2468
01:51:27,479 --> 01:51:30,439
but we did call them fun, so you know, even

2469
01:51:30,479 --> 01:51:33,159
if they're not going to win more games as tag analysis,

2470
01:51:33,159 --> 01:51:36,119
it'll be exciting. Thanks everybody for watching, for listening. If

2471
01:51:36,159 --> 01:51:39,079
you have not already, do all the usuals, rate review, subscribe,

2472
01:51:39,600 --> 01:51:43,319
follow us on all your socials, Make sure that you're

2473
01:51:43,359 --> 01:51:46,039
commenting on the YouTube videos. Let us know if you

2474
01:51:46,119 --> 01:51:48,720
disagree agree with anything we said on the better or

2475
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:51,119
worse side of things. We forgot a team that is

2476
01:51:51,199 --> 01:51:53,760
like has a massive upside that we did not be

2477
01:51:53,800 --> 01:51:56,119
a credit to. Let us know that as well. Tell

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01:51:56,119 --> 01:51:58,319
your friends about the podcast, Tell your enemies about the podcast.

2479
01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:01,399
Join our discord pleaks for and YouTube and podcast description.

2480
01:52:01,439 --> 01:52:04,039
I think it's going to cover it as always. Shouts

2481
01:52:04,039 --> 01:52:09,359
to Frank Lookine, apologies. Jared Allen m HM