Speaker 1: It's night with Dan Ray. I'm telling you Feazy Boston's
Speaker 1: new radio.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome back everybody. Thank you very much, Dan Watkins.
Speaker 2: As as you may know, it's a week or so ago,
Speaker 2: maybe a little longer. Then there was what's been characterized
Speaker 2: as the National Public Data breach, in which I'm told
Speaker 2: two point nine billion records were stolen from National Public Data,
Speaker 2: which is a Florida based credit and criminal background check company.
Speaker 2: The records reportedly include a large amount of sensitive information,
Speaker 2: including social security numbers. There's a hacking group called us
Speaker 2: DoD doesn't stay it for. The Defense Department has taken
Speaker 2: responsibility for the massive data breach. So I heard about this,
Speaker 2: and I read about it, and I couldn't find straight
Speaker 2: answers anywhere. And today I asked our producer Marita to
Speaker 2: see what she could do, and she introduced me to
Speaker 2: Professor Sheldon Jacobson, who's PhD and director of the Institute
Speaker 2: for Computational Redistricting. He is also the founder of the
Speaker 2: computer science program at the University of Illinois. So, Professor
Speaker 2: Sheldon Jacobson, I'm hoping you're going to have some answers
Speaker 2: as to what happened and how we can prevent it
Speaker 2: from happening anything worse happening to us. How are you tonight,
Speaker 2: good evening, sir.
Speaker 3: Well, it's a pleasure to be with you. Thank you
Speaker 3: for having me.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks very much. First of all, what is the
Speaker 2: National Public Data Is that the organization that was hacked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is an organization that basically provide data for
Speaker 3: people who want background checks on people. Do is They
Speaker 3: scrape data from the Internet and other sources. Some of
Speaker 3: it is publicly available, some of it is not, and
Speaker 3: they have that in a repository which they then sell
Speaker 3: it for people who want to do a background check.
Speaker 3: So if someone is going to apply for employment and
Speaker 3: you want to get some background information on them, you
Speaker 3: pay a fee and you're able to get information. Or
Speaker 3: if someone's just curious about their neighbor and they want
Speaker 3: to get some background information, they can pay the fee
Speaker 3: and also get information. So there's so much data out
Speaker 3: there on the Internet, in our digital economy, in a
Speaker 3: technical society that in essence, so much is known about
Speaker 3: so much of us. Some people just want to know,
Speaker 3: some people need to know, but some people just want
Speaker 3: to know. And an organization like the National Public Data
Speaker 3: Company isn't an entity that sells this information and makes
Speaker 3: it available.
Speaker 2: Okay, Now what troubles me most is that I always
Speaker 2: thought call me naive, I'll be happy to respond to
Speaker 2: that appellation. I always thought that your social Security number
Speaker 2: was something that you were supposed to protect with your life,
Speaker 2: that even when people asked you for the last four
Speaker 2: digits of your so scurity dumban, you should be careful
Speaker 2: who you're talking to. And I also thought that that
Speaker 2: was our identification number, almost like our fingerprints. That was
Speaker 2: what I've always thought it was. And my understanding is
Speaker 2: that amongst these two point billion pieces of information, they
Speaker 2: may have your social Security number or my social Security number.
Speaker 2: What's the likelihood of that or can you even begin
Speaker 2: to estimate that likelihood?
Speaker 3: Well, a better way to frame that question is, what's
Speaker 3: the likelihood that someone out there has your social Security
Speaker 3: number that you did not give permission to have? And
Speaker 3: the probability the likelihood is extremely high. I always tell
Speaker 3: people that don't assume that your information is being protected.
Speaker 3: Assume the worst, which is that all of your information,
Speaker 3: your social Security number, your address, your phone numbers, everything
Speaker 3: about you, your family members is a known entity. Because
Speaker 3: this is valuable information for bad actors who want to
Speaker 3: do something which is take your money in an instance, Yeah.
Speaker 2: That I understand. But for example, when you sign up
Speaker 2: for the draft or when you're conscripted in the military,
Speaker 2: they do want your SOB scurity number, but you're giving
Speaker 2: that to someone who represents the Department of Defense. And
Speaker 2: you assume when you file your income tax returns you
Speaker 2: have to include your sole security number when you pay
Speaker 2: your estimated taxes every quarter. There's a lot of interaction
Speaker 2: with government agencies. When when I'm opening a bank account,
Speaker 2: I think I have to provide my SO security number,
Speaker 2: But I'm not giving my SO screuty number to someone
Speaker 2: who calls up and says to me, Hi, I'm the
Speaker 2: prince from Nigeria and I want to put money in
Speaker 2: your bank, But can you give them my SO scurity umber.
Speaker 2: I always assume that anyone who who would ask me
Speaker 2: and I'm going to be naive now, anyone who would
Speaker 2: ask me by my SO security number, I ARAUS Defense
Speaker 2: Department on whomever would guard that? Or am I just horrible?
Speaker 2: You naive? Professor?
Speaker 3: Well, people will give their Social Security number if it's requested,
Speaker 3: and they often even don't think about it. So if
Speaker 3: you apply for a department store credit card, you will
Speaker 3: have to give your Social Security number. You are entrusting
Speaker 3: them to maintain the confidential of it. The challenge is
Speaker 3: that we've had so many security breaches over the last
Speaker 3: several years. Just think back to twenty seventeen when Equifax
Speaker 3: had their security breach that involved over one half of
Speaker 3: all adults in the United States had their personal information
Speaker 3: basically be breached. That information is valuable to bad actors.
Speaker 3: In fact, for this particular security breach, they found that
Speaker 3: someone is trying to sell these records for over three
Speaker 3: million dollars. Three million dollars, and someone is going to
Speaker 3: buy it because they will have access to all this
Speaker 3: personal information that ultimately can then be resold, redistributed, and
Speaker 3: ultimately an attempt to get financial gain. Sounds our information
Speaker 3: is all out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds to be professor. Let that if they are
Speaker 2: going to provide someone with two point nine billion pieces
Speaker 2: of information three million dollars almost sounds like chump change.
Speaker 2: That there will be a bunch of people are going
Speaker 2: to step forward and say, hey, I'll give you four
Speaker 2: millions for that. I mean, so this now is going
Speaker 2: to be out there, which of course leads us to
Speaker 2: the question, what should all of us do. You mentioned
Speaker 2: prior breaches of security. Can we assume that somehow we're
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't change my Social Security number. I
Speaker 2: know I can't do that. What defense mechanism do I
Speaker 2: have left in my arsenal of defense mechanisms to utilize?
Speaker 3: Well, there's a tremendous number of things you can do.
Speaker 3: The first thing is you want to freeze your credit,
Speaker 3: which means that if someone has your social Security number
Speaker 3: and they attempt to get a credit card, take out
Speaker 3: a loan, purchase a car, do anything like that, they're
Speaker 3: going to require a background check, and that background check
Speaker 3: will involve knowing their social Security number. If someone has it,
Speaker 3: that's wonderful. They can say, oh, yes, I am you
Speaker 3: know Mary Smith or John Jackson, and here's my social
Speaker 3: Security number, and then they put it through. But if
Speaker 3: you have a security freeze in place, the organization who
Speaker 3: wants to give you credit will say, I'm sorry, you
Speaker 3: have a freeze. You're going to have to unfreeze it,
Speaker 3: at which point the person, oh I forgot I'll be
Speaker 3: back and they never see them again.
Speaker 2: Okay, So how does one for my listeners? How and
Speaker 2: my listeners rings the gamut in terms of age and experience?
Speaker 2: How do they freeze their credit? And what are the
Speaker 2: implications they're off?
Speaker 3: Well, it's very simple, but it's not necessarily easy. It's
Speaker 3: simple because if you go to the three agencies that
Speaker 3: basically oversee credit in this country, which is Experience, Equifax,
Speaker 3: and TransUnion, you can set up an account online no cost,
Speaker 3: or you can call them and say I want to
Speaker 3: freeze my credit. They'll know exactly what that means, and
Speaker 3: then they will require some paperwork or some information about you,
Speaker 3: but ultimately it will get frozen. And once it's frozen,
Speaker 3: you have locked down the ability for these bad actors
Speaker 3: to use the information they have about you to in essence,
Speaker 3: takeout loans, buy cars, you know, set up a cell
Speaker 3: phone service, whatever they're trying to do. Many any many
Speaker 3: financial interactions will require Social Security number. The fact that
Speaker 3: they have it isn't the problem. It's the question of
Speaker 3: whether they can use it to gain financially and you
Speaker 3: can stop that with a credit freeze.
Speaker 2: Okay, and what if? What then? The implications?
Speaker 3: What is it?
Speaker 2: What's the downside? You freeze your credit? You can still
Speaker 2: use your credit card, you just can't go. You could
Speaker 2: cure a new credit.
Speaker 3: Card exactly, and you can still use your credit card.
Speaker 3: But if you want it to for example, take out
Speaker 3: a loan, a mortgage, you know, buy a car with
Speaker 3: an auto loan, you're going to have to temporarily unfreeze
Speaker 3: it to allow the legitimate agency who wants to give
Speaker 3: you credit to check your credit. But once you do that,
Speaker 3: you just refreeze it right away. So literally this can
Speaker 3: almost beat that in five or ten minutes.
Speaker 2: How difficult is it to unfreeze it? So in other words,
Speaker 2: what do you have to do to prove to TransUnion
Speaker 2: or Equifax or Experience that you know and again, you
Speaker 2: do it with one, you don't have to do with
Speaker 2: all three. I assume if you freeze it with one,
Speaker 2: you also can unfreeze it with all three.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you have to freeze them all individually, and
Speaker 3: you'd have to unfreeze them individually. But most entities who
Speaker 3: want to give you credit, they'll say we're going to
Speaker 3: use TransUnion or Ecofax or Experience. They won't use all
Speaker 3: of the typically and they'll tell you which one. The
Speaker 3: easiest way is to set up an account with these
Speaker 3: and then you can go in and to freeze or unfreeze,
Speaker 3: you're literally pressing a button. You're clicking on one little
Speaker 3: icon and it's done. It's so simple, okay, and it's
Speaker 3: amazing that people don't do that because it is the
Speaker 3: single most important thing to do, given the fact that
Speaker 3: your information is already out there.
Speaker 2: Okay, So assuming the information is out there, you have
Speaker 2: to go to each of these credit agencies, is that
Speaker 2: the correct term? Or no credit monitoring suce that's.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: Three companies, that's.
Speaker 2: Right, TransUnion, Experience, Equifax, So there's those. If you freeze
Speaker 2: it with each of those big three, you have provided
Speaker 2: a layer of protection that is that's important, okay. And
Speaker 2: then in order to unfreeze it, you you can move,
Speaker 2: you can do it. Okay, let me do this. I'd
Speaker 2: like to pause, if you would. I got to take
Speaker 2: a commercial break. I also would like to invite some
Speaker 2: of my listeners to join us and ask you questions,
Speaker 2: because frankly, I know a little bit about this, but
Speaker 2: I'm smart enough to know that I don't know all
Speaker 2: that that my listeners know, and so there may be
Speaker 2: some questions that my listeners have. Would you be willing
Speaker 2: to take a few questions.
Speaker 3: Be happy to help?
Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent. My guest is doctor Sheldon Jacobson. He's with
Speaker 2: the University of Illinois. He's the founder of the computer
Speaker 2: science program there. He's also the director of the Institute
Speaker 2: for Computational Redistricting. We'll explain well, I'll get an explanation
Speaker 2: of what that is. If you would like to ask
Speaker 2: doctor Jacobson a question, offer a thought, I'd love to
Speaker 2: have you joined the conversation. This is one of those
Speaker 2: programs that I think is really important. We can talk politics,
Speaker 2: we can talk you know, Trump, Harris, we can talk
Speaker 2: all of that sort of stuff any night, but this
Speaker 2: is we've found a great resource. Uh. He's very forthcoming
Speaker 2: and very clear. Give us a call six one seven
Speaker 2: four ten thirty or six one seven nine ten thirty
Speaker 2: back on knights I would Professor Sheldon Jacobson at the
Speaker 2: University of Illinois. Right after a few messages.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 1: Nights Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: My guest is Professor Sheldon Jacobson. Uh, And as I expected,
Speaker 2: we have a bunch of phone calls. So without any
Speaker 2: further ado, is there anything that I have not asked
Speaker 2: you that you think is narrative for you to share
Speaker 2: with my audience before we go to phone calls. I
Speaker 2: love the idea of freezing the credit account, and I
Speaker 2: have seen that mentioned earlier in other venues. But you
Speaker 2: explained and have convinced me that it one should be done,
Speaker 2: and that it can be done simply, and it can
Speaker 2: be undone simply. Anything else that people can do on
Speaker 2: a short term basis.
Speaker 3: The thing that you can also purchase identification theft protection,
Speaker 3: which would be the next layer, which in fact they'll
Speaker 3: do the freezing and unfreezing for you if it's because
Speaker 3: you pay for that service. That's another thing which makes
Speaker 3: it a little easier for people. Does cost money obviously
Speaker 3: to do this well, just freezing does not cost anything.
Speaker 3: So there's different layers of protections you can put in,
Speaker 3: and you have to ask yourself how much layers do
Speaker 3: I want to pay forward and provide? Because think of
Speaker 3: it this way. If you're in a group of people
Speaker 3: and you're being attacked by a bear, you don't have
Speaker 3: to run fast than the bear. You just have to
Speaker 3: can't be the slowest person running.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was about to say that, Yes.
Speaker 3: You just want to stay ahead of people so that
Speaker 3: when they go through many, many social security numbers, if
Speaker 3: you've provided some headwinds to them accessing cure credit, then
Speaker 3: they're going to go to someone else. And that's the
Speaker 3: way it works. Keep that in mind. You're not going
Speaker 3: to be able to be completely risk free, but you
Speaker 3: want to be more protected than everybody else. And freezing
Speaker 3: is a really an important thing.
Speaker 2: Okay, who are the companies because I think I hear
Speaker 2: them advertised that we have a million dollars worth of protection.
Speaker 2: Is there a company that you feel is the gold
Speaker 2: standard in terms of again this unlimited threat protection.
Speaker 3: Well, I prefer not to mention the name of a company.
Speaker 3: What I would suggest people to is simply Google IDs
Speaker 3: have protection. And there are so many surveys out there,
Speaker 3: and they're all a little different, but they're providing some
Speaker 3: moller services. I'll let each person to choose. But I
Speaker 3: don't want to get into an endorsement in this particular case.
Speaker 2: No, No, I understand that, and I respect that, I
Speaker 2: really do, you know, but I I also I know
Speaker 2: that there are probably some companies out there that might
Speaker 2: promise you the world, but in the event of a problem,
Speaker 2: you know what, what what can you do to make
Speaker 2: sure that they beg back back up their problem? You
Speaker 2: know their promise? I meaning you know you you hire
Speaker 2: a lawyer to uh TO to do some estate planning
Speaker 2: for you. If he doesn't do the estate planning, then
Speaker 2: you don't pay the lawyer. That's I just but but
Speaker 2: I'm not going to pressure pressure you on that, that's
Speaker 2: for sure. So other other than freezing the accounts on
Speaker 2: your own Google I D threat protection and do your
Speaker 2: own research. But find a company who you would pay.
Speaker 2: Is that a one time only fee or is that
Speaker 2: sort of you pay so much every year and if
Speaker 2: you don't pay, the threat protection vanishes? Does these type
Speaker 2: actually do it differ? Linked?
Speaker 3: It's a service you pay on an ongoing basis, much
Speaker 3: like your cell phone service and others. You just pay
Speaker 3: it regularly, either in a yearly or on a monthly basis,
Speaker 3: and it provides the kind of prediction that you know,
Speaker 3: it's peace of mind, what you want to pay for
Speaker 3: and what you're comfortable with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like having an alarm system on your home.
Speaker 2: I get it. It's it's peace of mind. So let
Speaker 2: me ask you this question. What is a reasonable amount
Speaker 2: of money? Do they charge you based upon what your
Speaker 2: assets are? Or does every person who would who would
Speaker 2: present themselves as a potential customer they treated the same way? Uh?
Speaker 2: You know, obviously life insurance, the the fee for life
Speaker 2: insurance is correlated to your age. And maybe if you
Speaker 2: have to take a medical exam, what is the what's
Speaker 2: the standard? If you know and I get them I
Speaker 2: learned in law school. The only dumb question of the
Speaker 2: questions you don't you're afraid to answer to ask so
Speaker 2: uh is do you have any idea what the standard
Speaker 2: sort of range of fees would be on an annual
Speaker 2: basis for something like that thread protection?
Speaker 3: It depends on the level of protection that you want.
Speaker 3: There's minimal amounts that you can have, which is a
Speaker 3: more modest monthly fee or an annual fee, and then
Speaker 3: they have, you know, higher levels of protection which also
Speaker 3: increase the coverage. So it's not so much based on
Speaker 3: your assets, it's what you want to purchase in terms
Speaker 3: of protection.
Speaker 2: Okay, So so almost as if you were going to,
Speaker 2: you know, get protection for a home that's worth of
Speaker 2: two hundred or three hundred thousand dollars worth. It is
Speaker 2: worth a home that's worth two or three million dollars. Okay, perfectly,
Speaker 2: perfectly clear examples which I love. My guest is Professor
Speaker 2: Sheldon Jacobson. We're right at the bottom of the hour,
Speaker 2: virtually within a minute, and I don't want to short
Speaker 2: change anyone, so I will tell you the only lines
Speaker 2: that the only line open right now is six one seven,
Speaker 2: nine three, one ten thirty. If you're dialing two five,
Speaker 2: four to ten thirty, the lines are full, try six
Speaker 2: one seven, nine three one ten thirty. Hoping doctor Jacobson
Speaker 2: will be kind enough to stay with us for another
Speaker 2: half hour and take as many questions as possible. We
Speaker 2: will be back with doctor Sheldon Jacobson, who is a
Speaker 2: fabulous guest, and I very really describe my guest as fabulous,
Speaker 2: Doctor Jacobson. Your answers are thorough, comprehensive and clear, which
Speaker 2: is exactly you must make a terrific expert witness in
Speaker 2: a quote of law. Because you really are very, very good,
Speaker 2: and I just want us to thank you for your
Speaker 2: time tonight. This You're exactly the type of guests I've
Speaker 2: been looking for, and my producer has been seeking for
Speaker 2: about a week. So she did a great job finding you.
Speaker 2: I thank you for your time tonight. Stay right there.
Speaker 2: We got a news break. It's about three or four minutes.
Speaker 2: If you need to get up and get a glass
Speaker 2: of water. Now is the time back with doctor Sheldon
Speaker 2: Jacobson and the University of Illinois. Fighting a Line A
Speaker 2: Line Knight. I believe is the name of the correct
Speaker 2: is that you're a fighting a line night? Correct Or
Speaker 2: have they changed that? All right? Just as look, please
Speaker 2: don't change that name. I love that name. Improve me
Speaker 2: back on night Side right after this with your phone calls.
Speaker 1: It's night Side with Dan Ray on w BSS, Boston's
Speaker 1: news radio.
Speaker 2: That I did have pizza and ice cream. I just
Speaker 2: felt like pizza and ice cream. Not gonna eat pizza
Speaker 2: and ice cream every night, but I don't waking when
Speaker 2: any you could splurge and I felt like it tonight.
Speaker 2: Let's go to the call for the phones, my guest,
Speaker 2: uh see, I had ice cream on my mind. I
Speaker 2: was thinking of ice cream cones. Professor Sheldon Jacobson at
Speaker 2: the University of Illinois. Let's go to Bill and Danvers, Massachusetts. Hey, Bill,
Speaker 2: welcome back, how are you sir.
Speaker 4: Good good, yes, doctor that I am experient and you
Speaker 4: can go on. Of course I wanted there's your credit,
Speaker 4: you know, and you can go on and get all
Speaker 4: three credit reports.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Maybe if I'm going for col Loo, and sometimes I'll
Speaker 4: do it, I'll look at my overall, but that auction
Speaker 4: to lock it is on there.
Speaker 5: Also.
Speaker 4: I have love luck. If I were to fill an
Speaker 4: application out right now for a credit card, probably as
Speaker 4: soon as I hit click that button, probably within one
Speaker 4: to two minutes, I would get a notification, a text
Speaker 4: message and email, and if I didn't answer it was
Speaker 4: me or not, then the phone rings. They also alert
Speaker 4: you if you find anything on the doc web. They
Speaker 4: monitor that because some stuff you said.
Speaker 2: I know that doctor Jacobson is not here to endorse
Speaker 2: any company. You said that you have LifeLock. I think
Speaker 2: you said yeah, yeah, and they advertised that heavily. Are
Speaker 2: you Are you happy with them?
Speaker 3: Bill? Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean I want to say, it's been years I've
Speaker 4: had them, and but they you know, they let you know.
Speaker 4: Also they had a thing because I went on one
Speaker 4: day and you know, the look and I don't know
Speaker 4: what the doctor field. They have this thing called the
Speaker 4: privacy scan. I don't know if you know it was
Speaker 4: it wasn't that much more a month. And you know,
Speaker 4: if you go punch in your name on some of
Speaker 4: the side, you know, if you kind of see who
Speaker 4: you're related to this, I mean, there's a lot of
Speaker 4: information on the computer. You spend ten minutes look around,
Speaker 4: and he roughly knew somebody's age and stuff and where
Speaker 4: they live. You could actually find out. So this privacy
Speaker 4: scan kind of goes on and it tells you what
Speaker 4: it's complete. They notified to pull stuff down and they
Speaker 4: scan every month. So in the beginning there was like
Speaker 4: two hundred and something sits. I mean now it's like
Speaker 4: five sticks, eight sites. They'll tell you if they found,
Speaker 4: what they removed and everything else. So I don't know
Speaker 4: how accurate it is, but I assume anything that kind
Speaker 4: of keeps stuff under control and maybe keeps less information
Speaker 4: out there for eight ninety nine a month on top
Speaker 4: of whatever, probably isn't the worst thing. So I don't
Speaker 4: know if the doctor knows anything about that.
Speaker 2: Say let's say he does. Doctor Jacobson. Bill is a again,
Speaker 2: he's with one of these agencies, and I guess there
Speaker 2: was an add on which you would expect. It's like
Speaker 2: go to a restaurant. You want an appetizer with that steak,
Speaker 2: how about the nice dessert at the end of the meal.
Speaker 2: I mean you can order what you know what I
Speaker 2: guess what you want? Does any of that do you do?
Speaker 2: You think what Bill is saying is accurate.
Speaker 3: Well, it really comes down to a comfort level for
Speaker 3: the individual. If you want more and more protection, you
Speaker 3: will pay more and more price. Remember, these companies do
Speaker 3: a very valuable service that you pay for to protect you,
Speaker 3: but they also want to stay in business and make money,
Speaker 3: so they will offer as many things that is available.
Speaker 3: Once again, if it's a question of how many layers
Speaker 3: you want to add in and will they lead to
Speaker 3: you having a compromise in your finances, because I think
Speaker 3: that's what most of us are interested in. We don't
Speaker 3: want someone taking money out of our bank account. We
Speaker 3: don't want money at people taking a credit card out
Speaker 3: in our name and compromising our financial life.
Speaker 2: And there's a cost us. There's a cost associated with everything.
Speaker 2: It's no company is going to do this for free.
Speaker 2: So people, as you say, doctor Jacobson, have to check
Speaker 2: out the companies that are competitors. I will tell you
Speaker 2: that when you go it, and I did during the
Speaker 2: I went to the idea of googling ID threat protection. Oh.
Speaker 2: At the top of the Google are are ads that
Speaker 2: are sponsored. You can look at those, but you may
Speaker 2: want to go past the sponsored ads to get to
Speaker 2: the to some of the more legitimate companies. Not that
Speaker 2: the ads that the ads are not legitimate companies, but
Speaker 2: just recognize you're looking at the first choice that you're
Speaker 2: going to come across is probably an ad that is
Speaker 2: that has been paid for. Bill. Appreciate you, Carl, Thank
Speaker 2: you forgetting it's calling. I got a whole bunch of calls.
Speaker 4: Ye oh yeah, I have a good night guys.
Speaker 2: Are you too, my friend? Let me go to John
Speaker 2: and Boston. John next on nice side with doctor Sheldon Jacobson.
Speaker 3: Go right ahead, thanks man.
Speaker 6: Thanks doctor Jickson. It's not good to email from TransUnion said,
Speaker 6: I got a doc web lord. I've never been on
Speaker 6: the doc web, so I was. I try to call
Speaker 6: TransUnion a number of times and I got disconnected. I
Speaker 6: couldn't get through. And I'm not because I wasn't even
Speaker 6: sure if email is legit from Transunions, because I've getting
Speaker 6: I've gotten other banks that they were basically they look
Speaker 6: identical also, but they weren't from the comedy. So I'm
Speaker 6: not sure at this point exactly.
Speaker 2: What was the John, what what was the the the
Speaker 2: email that was? Where did that email come from? Did
Speaker 2: it say TransUnion dot com?
Speaker 5: Did it say it does say TransUnion, but what else
Speaker 5: does it say? It's a TransUnion? Uh, let's see at
Speaker 5: E M t UC dot TransUnion dot console that that
Speaker 5: looms to be.
Speaker 2: That looks to me like a scam. Doctor.
Speaker 3: Well, you've got to be extremely careful because there's so
Speaker 3: much phishing out there that they will try and attract
Speaker 3: you to click on an email. If you get an
Speaker 3: unsolicited email, assume the worst. If you want to speak
Speaker 3: to TransUnion, Experience or Equifax, go to their websites directly
Speaker 3: and make sure it's a legitimate one. Look at the
Speaker 3: address very carefully, or else you may end up getting
Speaker 3: into a fake website and they will pull your information.
Speaker 3: So do not assume that an unsolicited email is legitimate
Speaker 3: because they're being sent out by the Penns hundreds of
Speaker 3: millions to everyone hoping that a few people will click
Speaker 3: on them.
Speaker 2: John, just think you just read to me what the
Speaker 2: return address was it said TransUnion and then.
Speaker 6: What uh so, let's see it says TransUnion at em
Speaker 6: deaf tuci dot TransUnion dot com.
Speaker 2: Absolutely fake, Absolutely in my opinion, John, I don't know
Speaker 2: if doctor Jacobson, Professor Jacobson the fact if it's going
Speaker 2: to be TransUnion dot tom and should say TransUnion dot com.
Speaker 2: I get those all the time, all the time. I'm
Speaker 2: a fairly well known radio personality, and I just if
Speaker 2: I see anything, even the ones that I see that
Speaker 2: I think are legitimate, I will call. I will call
Speaker 2: or I will send an email to them on an
Speaker 2: email address that I know is accurate. Simple as that.
Speaker 2: I would not touch that. I would not respond to that.
Speaker 6: John, that I I definitely didn't death I wanted to.
Speaker 6: I just got the other day. I didn't have fun
Speaker 6: to foll up when I heard your radio program. That's
Speaker 6: way well, John, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I think I know you. You know me. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to give you bad advice intentionally. If they
Speaker 2: really want to get to you, they'll they'll give you
Speaker 2: a phone call or they'll send you a letter like
Speaker 2: you never get anything for the government. John got to run.
Speaker 2: Thank you much. Thank Thank you Mary and Medford. Mary
Speaker 2: next one nights.
Speaker 7: I go right ahead, Hi Dan, thanks for taking my call,
Speaker 7: and hello Professor Jacobson. I experienced something like this a
Speaker 7: couple of weeks ago. I have a Discover card and
Speaker 7: Discover and one of the features of Discover card is
Speaker 7: they checked to see that nobody's bothered with your social
Speaker 7: Security number or anything. And they told me and they
Speaker 7: showed me that I was on the dark Web, and
Speaker 7: they showed me the last four numbers of my social
Speaker 7: Security card and they gave me a number to Discover with.
Speaker 7: This was all in an email. So instead of calling
Speaker 7: that number, I called the number I usually called Discover
Speaker 7: on and I asked the person you know, to direct
Speaker 7: me to the fraud group and all that, and they
Speaker 7: directed me to They told me my name came up
Speaker 7: on the dark web and to go to the three
Speaker 7: credit bureaus you know, Experience and the other two the
Speaker 7: TransUnion and block my credit and which I did. But
Speaker 7: one of my sons happened to come in when I
Speaker 7: was doing it, and he says, it's very important that
Speaker 7: you write down your password and put it someplace safe,
Speaker 7: because if you want to unblock it, you're going to
Speaker 7: have a problem. If you don't have the correct password.
Speaker 5: Perfect.
Speaker 7: I just wanted to pass that on.
Speaker 2: All right, Mary, good advice. Thank you very much.
Speaker 7: You're welcome.
Speaker 5: Bye.
Speaker 2: Let me get one more in here before the break.
Speaker 2: Let me go to Melissa in the great state of Oregon.
Speaker 2: Melissa and it's Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 5: Correct, that's correct me.
Speaker 2: Welcome back, Professor Sheldon Jacobson. Go ahead, Melissa.
Speaker 8: Hi. I have my question for your guests. Is this
Speaker 8: So the company that got hacked is the company we
Speaker 8: go through for background checks? How can this company be trusted?
Speaker 9: And the reason I asked that question is is I
Speaker 9: work with data and I have gone through several background
Speaker 9: checks so for NSA data and other types of data,
Speaker 9: and they're quite nitpicky, and now that I've heard they've
Speaker 9: gotten haacked, I'm wondering if I can trust their information
Speaker 9: that they're providing about me.
Speaker 3: Well, that's a great question. And the fact is that
Speaker 3: National Public Data scrapes their data, sometimes without your permission.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just public data, and not all of it
Speaker 3: is correct. So we exactly just assume that everything that
Speaker 3: they have out there is correct. In fact, they may
Speaker 3: have exposed some information about you personally, which isn't even accurate,
Speaker 3: and it has absolutely no value to the bad actors
Speaker 3: who are going to buy it and try and use it.
Speaker 3: That's why the metaphor of staying ahead of the bear.
Speaker 3: You know, you don't thrun faster, and the bear just
Speaker 3: faster than everybody, at least a few other people. You
Speaker 3: don't want to be the slowest to stay idea freezing
Speaker 3: your credit and putting fraud alerts on. Doing all these
Speaker 3: simple little things will make it a little more difficult
Speaker 3: for someone to use your information. That they'll have it,
Speaker 3: but if they don't use it, then it has no
Speaker 3: value to them and it won't hurt you.
Speaker 9: So many corporate one hundred, two hundred, three hundred and
Speaker 9: four out of five hundred organizations though, are doing major
Speaker 9: background checks on people for them.
Speaker 3: To get jobs.
Speaker 9: Because of the use of data in the workplace, this
Speaker 9: can prevent someone from getting a job within accurate data,
Speaker 9: and so we're now putting the employee at risk, the
Speaker 9: potential employee. So it feels like there's good, there's a
Speaker 9: gap here. It feels like you know, not only is
Speaker 9: the individual at risk for having their their personal information
Speaker 9: out there, but that they're possibly at risk for not
Speaker 9: getting a job or am I totally conspiracy theorying this.
Speaker 3: Well, a smart employer will understand exactly what you said,
Speaker 3: and what they will do is they will go to
Speaker 3: multiple sources to check if there's a consistency, then they
Speaker 3: will come to the potential employee and talk to them
Speaker 3: about it. So remember, data is valuable, but data doesn't
Speaker 3: give the whole picture. Ultimately, it's human interactions that determine decisions.
Speaker 3: The data informs it, but it's about people. Let's never
Speaker 3: forget that.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a great point. But they unfortunately they outsource
Speaker 9: it to these companies, right, and it's just kind of
Speaker 9: a paper, but it's really a great topic. I'm so
Speaker 9: glad you covered this.
Speaker 2: Dand Melissa, my pleasure are always great to.
Speaker 9: Hear your voice you too, behave bye bye.
Speaker 2: How are you Cincinnati? Red's doing?
Speaker 9: Oh I've lost seven in a row, but that is
Speaker 9: out of the last ten. But that's okay, there's always
Speaker 9: next year. Take care.
Speaker 2: We're going to be saying the same thing in Boston
Speaker 2: unfortunately as well. Thanks go Red, sox H take a
Speaker 2: very quick break. My guest is Professor Sheldon Jacobson, University
Speaker 2: of Illinois. Steve Joel and Laurie. We will get you
Speaker 2: on before we have to say good night to doctor Jacobson.
Speaker 2: And doctor Jacobson, thank you so much again for being
Speaker 2: here and sticking with us until eleven o'clock in the east.
Speaker 2: We'll be back as as I told you, we have
Speaker 2: listeners all over the country. We'll be back on night
Speaker 2: Side right after this now.
Speaker 1: Bent to Dan ray Mine from the Window World night
Speaker 1: Side STOs on w b Z News Radio.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're not going to get everyone in. We're going
Speaker 2: to continue our conversation of this after the eleven but
Speaker 2: let me go next to Joel in Natick. Joel, you're
Speaker 2: next on Nightside with Professor Sheldon Jacobson. Go ahead, Joel.
Speaker 3: Yes, So my question is does he know anything about
Speaker 3: the website pentesta dot com.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's see if you heard that, how do you
Speaker 2: spell that website.
Speaker 3: Pen testa dot com. Pen test is one word?
Speaker 2: Okay, it sounds like it's p E n T E
Speaker 2: s T a pen testa e pen tester Okay, like
Speaker 2: a fountain pen being tested pen tester. Doctor, are you familiar?
Speaker 2: First of all, Joel, what type of tell us what
Speaker 2: website is? Give us a hint.
Speaker 3: Well, if it's I'm kind of a company that said
Speaker 3: you have a break, recommended going to this website, and
Speaker 3: by putting in your email, it tells you what puts
Speaker 3: on infanation is out there, what companies have the infanation
Speaker 3: in you user name, your password, and your IP addresses?
Speaker 2: WHOA Have you ever heard of such a website? Doctor professor?
Speaker 3: Well, I know that websites as such exist, and they
Speaker 3: certainly provide some useful information. But once again, there's a
Speaker 3: couple of things to be careful of. One is people
Speaker 3: can put up stake websites to have you put in
Speaker 3: that information so they can access it. So you have
Speaker 3: to be very very careful this particular one. I am
Speaker 3: not fam you're with. That doesn't mean it's not legitimate.
Speaker 3: It's just that I'm not aware of it. But there's
Speaker 3: many sites like this. But once again, the thing to
Speaker 3: remember is that all of our information is already out there.
Speaker 3: It's already out there, which means that let's set up
Speaker 3: some layers around us to protect us. So as a
Speaker 3: result of that, Pentester, there's also a company called Atlas Privacy.
Speaker 3: They will you can put in information and I can
Speaker 3: say with probability ninety ninety nine that your information will
Speaker 3: come up saying yes, yes, yes, you have been compromised.
Speaker 3: Because with such a large data breach, everybody's been compromised.
Speaker 3: But they've been compromised from Equifax in twenty seventeen and
Speaker 3: so many others. We'd like to believe in an ideal
Speaker 3: world that we're safe and protected, but we have to
Speaker 3: take some ownership of the fact that our data's out there.
Speaker 3: Let's do what we can. And that's why freezing is
Speaker 3: so critical. Every single person listening, you should be creating
Speaker 3: accounts on Equifax, Experience and TransUnion tonight and freezing your
Speaker 3: credit You might as well. And the sooner you do it,
Speaker 3: the safer you will be. In particular, the safer your
Speaker 3: finances are going to be.
Speaker 2: Real quick follow up question, Professor Jacobson. By freezing those accounts,
Speaker 2: obviously you trust these accounts completely, Equifax, TransUnion and Experience.
Speaker 2: They could they recommend to you or to anyone if
Speaker 2: let's say this account that Joel's talking about pentester dot
Speaker 2: com is legitimate, or would they stay away from advising
Speaker 2: anyone on those type of accounts.
Speaker 3: Well, based on the information that I know, it is
Speaker 3: a legitimate company. It's Pentester Cybersecurity and they have a
Speaker 3: website and you can actually check your information and when
Speaker 3: you put it in you're going to find out, oh gee,
Speaker 3: I've been compromised. So they do exist. But once again,
Speaker 3: knowing that you've been compromised is not the problem. It's
Speaker 3: what protections you can put in place so that the
Speaker 3: information about you does not get used to hurt you financially.
Speaker 2: That's great, Jill, thank you very much. That's a great question.
Speaker 3: And one more. Thank do me.
Speaker 2: You got to be really quick on this one because I.
Speaker 3: I know stoneum Bank called me and said someone tried
Speaker 3: to open the account your social security number and SOONEUM Bank
Speaker 3: wouldn't open it up because apparently had the wrong address.
Speaker 3: And then he said, oh, by the way, this is
Speaker 3: the collect address was supposed to have. But they wanted
Speaker 3: to open their account but they had my solid security number.
Speaker 3: That's just a state story.
Speaker 4: Boy.
Speaker 2: You okay, appreciate it. Thanks, Joe, appreciate it very much.
Speaker 2: Let me go to Laurie and Clinton. Laurie, you were
Speaker 2: next on nights side. I'm going to try to get you,
Speaker 2: and if you can't get your question answered, I'll hold
Speaker 2: your wall over. Go ahead, Laurie, Hi, I.
Speaker 10: Just have a little story about one of the one
Speaker 10: of the three major ones. I'm not sure which one
Speaker 10: it was, but I was trying to buy a bed
Speaker 10: at Bob's Discount Furniture, and I was trying to apply
Speaker 10: for credit to get the you know, the free yearly
Speaker 10: free payments for a year, and I was able to
Speaker 10: go in. He don't now. There was a new guy
Speaker 10: that I was dealing with. He said, oh, go in,
Speaker 10: and I told him that all make accounts were frozen.
Speaker 10: I've they've been frozen for decades and I've never had
Speaker 10: to use I used it once about twenty years ago,
Speaker 10: and I couldn't get in. So I just I just
Speaker 10: never applied for any credit anymore. And then so I'm
Speaker 10: applying for a credit that about two weeks ago, and
Speaker 10: he told me to go in and unprease one of them.
Speaker 10: I unfroze that one and I still got rejected. So
Speaker 10: I went in and I froze, unfroze the second one.
Speaker 10: I still got rejected. And then but then then I
Speaker 10: was able to get them both unfrozen, and it was temporary.
Speaker 10: It was very nice because I could do it temporarily,
Speaker 10: so I just unfrozen it for like three days. I
Speaker 10: date three days from then, and and then I still
Speaker 10: got rejected. So then I said, I'll have to do
Speaker 10: the third one. The third one I think was transient,
Speaker 10: but I'm not sure. It required a pass code, and
Speaker 10: the other way I get the pass code, and I
Speaker 10: don't remember.
Speaker 3: My pass code.
Speaker 10: I remember getting it, but I don't remember where it
Speaker 10: is at the time, so I couldn't, you know, I
Speaker 10: wanted to do it just then, and.
Speaker 3: So I am.
Speaker 10: They said I could get a pass over, it would
Speaker 10: take three to five days to come in the mail.
Speaker 10: I couldn't.
Speaker 3: I just paid.
Speaker 10: I just played with my credit card.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a wonderful story, Laurie, appreciate it very much.
Speaker 2: It shows us about how carefully you have to be
Speaker 2: when you when you create a pass code. We've all,
Speaker 2: we've all done all been there. Thanks Laurie, love the story.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Professor Jacobson. You have been a
Speaker 2: fabulous guest. I'd love to be able to get you
Speaker 2: back at some point because more people are hanging on
Speaker 2: the line. I'm going to deal with them next hour,
Speaker 2: but I'd love to get you back if that would
Speaker 2: be possible. I really appreciated your your time tonight, your clarity,
Speaker 2: and your precision. It was excellent.
Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure joining you, and thank you very much,
Speaker 3: and I hope all of your listeners I appreciate the
Speaker 3: great work that you do to bring in important topics
Speaker 3: for everyone's interest.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Professor Jacobson. If they get the
Speaker 2: boss to let me know, and I owe you a
Speaker 2: cup of coffee, I mean that or dinner, thank you
Speaker 2: very much. All Right, when we get back, let's continue
Speaker 2: with our conversation. I really want to hear from you
Speaker 2: six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty the good,
Speaker 2: the bad, and the ugly. Six one seven, nine, three
Speaker 2: one ten thirty. Have you had problems? Let's share the
Speaker 2: information here on North America's back porch.