Speaker 1: Hey, Funky Fresh Michael, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2: I am well, the sun is shining, the weather is peaceful,
and I have a neighbor on the phone that wants
to talk to you for the next twenty minutes.
Speaker 1: Look, it's not my stereo. I have to turn down that.
It's my neighbor's stereo, and they just think it's coming
from my house.
Speaker 2: There's a party going on right here. It's a celebration.
Speaker 1: Good morning, Bridget. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2: I'm good? How about you?
Speaker 3: Eron?
Speaker 1: Fantastic and very excited to share a conversation with you
because this podcast really opened up my eyes and it
also scared the crap out of me because I didn't
know any of this was taking place. I mean, I'm
one of those people, you know, where everybody thinks everybody
lives happily ever after, and oh my god, this is
so beautiful. We're opening up the door for other creative people.
And then we get to be taken behind the scenes
like you've shown and it's like, oh, that's right, this
stuff does happen.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
Speaker 3: So one thing about this podcast, and one thing we
discovered is that you know, we als would have thought
that I started watching this in high school, so I thought, like,
this is a glimpse into the modeling world.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: And what we find out is that this is a
reality show, right, which is something that I think clicks
for us these days because reality TV has been around
for so long. But back when America's Next Top Model premier,
it has been on for like two or three years.
So we thought, you know, a lot of what we
were seeing was real, and it just turns out that's
not the case. And what they did to achieve having
a great TV show wasn't always great for the models,
for the contestant who were on that show.
Speaker 1: Well, you brought up something very interesting, you said, reality show.
And I can relate with that because one of my
podcasts is based on life at a grocery store, and
there are many times as the producer and as one
of the talent on the show that I will sit
there and say I should I prefabricate this? And I go, no,
this has got to be real because retail people will
call me out in a heartbeat. So I mean, I
just sit there and I wonder, did anybody ever call
this show out saying you wrote that into the script
that didn't really happen.
Speaker 3: Well, what's interesting is there were lots of models who
today are saying, you know, this didn't really happen or
this is not how this went down. But a lot
of the models signed NBA's so they couldn't talk about
those things for years later.
Speaker 2: They couldn't talk about it.
Speaker 3: Some of them are able to talk about it now,
right because the show was until twenty eighteen, so a
lot of them couldn't speak out. But behind the scenes,
when these models would leave the show and go to
like actual modeling agencies, right like they've been on TV,
everybody seeing them work with Tyra Banks, they have this portfolio,
so now like their career is supposed to start. So
when they would go to actual agencies, the agencies would
laugh in their faces or wouldn't know what to do
with them because the people that the agencies knew what
they were watching wasn't realistic. This isn't how modeling is
in the real world, and so they didn't take the
contestants seriously. So imagine you've gone through all of this
for nine ten however many weeks, you know, ever many
weeks you were actually on the show, You've been humiliated,
You've hadn't slept, You've had to do all these ridiculous challenges.
You're being hung off the side of a building and
told dismise, and then you find out that you did
all of that for nothing. If your dream ultimately is
to become a supermodel, a top model, which is what
the show promised.
Speaker 1: See, and what that does? That redefines that word curse
that you're using, curse of America's Next Top Model, because
the curse basically is the fact that you stepped into something.
Is it that situation of you knew what it was
when you picked it up?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think that's the arguing me for the models.
Speaker 1: For me, when I got into this, I mean after
a while, I mean it's like, Okay, I know what
this show is about, but come on, it's national attention.
They're gonna love me, okay, you know, because what's not
to love about me? Oh, let's do it. And then
all of a sudden, you're getting your butt beat.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think that's a big part of it. It Also,
you get to look at this show was on for
twenty four seasons, twenty four cycles as they call it,
and I think the contestants on the first season didn't
know quite what they were getting into. I think they
are some of the people who can actually have like
this cover up. I did not know what this was
going to be. I actually thought it was a model
in competition. And then of course there are others who
got on the show and realized, Okay, maybe I might
not become a top model, but I might get some fame, right,
Like I might be able to further my career in entertainment.
I actually talked to a contestant who was on the
last seasons. I know a lot of people didn't necesarily
seen it for the last seasons, but the last seasons
they did three co ed seasons, so they had guy
and girl girl models. And I spoke to a guy
who was on that first season, that first season of
co Ed, and he said he knew that it wasn't
going to be making him gg I D Like, he
knew he wasn't going to be a top model. He
was an entertainer, he's a singer, he was an actor,
and he thought being on this show, like I can model,
I'm tall, I'm really attractive, but I think being on
the show will help further my career. But that is
something separate from how you think you'll be treated. Right,
A person can go on and say, Okay, I'm very
clear out about this. I know I'm not going to
necessarily become you know, on the covers of Vogue. But
they don't necessarily know how they're going to be manipulated
behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: A lot of models went into this thinking I'll get
a fair shake. If I go and do well, I'll
get far. But a lot of times the winners were
being manipulated by producers based on who had the best story,
based on who would be interesting for the cameras. And
so I think that's something that you don't really know
until you're on the show, that like, wow, I'm not
necessarily going to be treated the way I wanted to
be treated or how I thought this was going to go.
Even if you went into a knowing okay, I may
not become a model from this.
Speaker 1: See, this is the power of a creative mind where
we sit there and we think we can bend the
story to make it believable in things, and it's like
it's sitting right there in front of each and every
one of us. Because we have to go to those
board meetings and everybody goes, Okay, you know, we kind
of slipped in the ratings. What can we do to
create some drama. We've got to have something here that's
gonna you know, let's put this person up against this person.
I mean, it's so easy to do because the viewer
wants to see it. We watch daytime soap operas every.
Speaker 3: Day, absolutely, And that's something I spoke with the creative
producer who was on like the latter seasons, right, and
one of the things he told me is they would
a creative producer in this sense is the person who
comes up with all those ridiculous runway challenges. They come
up with all of the over the top photo shoots.
Speaker 2: That's that's their job to design these things.
Speaker 3: You have to think on a season of Top Model,
you have anywhere from like twelve to fifteen of those.
And so he said when he came along by season
I think fifteen, they've done everything, he would come up
with something that he's like, no, this is going to
get them. He presented to Tyra Banks and her team
and they'd be like, you know, we did that sorry,
episode three, season six, and so he had to come
up with something that had to top that, and so
I asked him about that. I was like, you know,
like you encouraged to like make it even more ridiculous.
He was like absolutely. One of the he told me
about some of the photo shoots of her. Whence he
came up with one of them. They were at the
Macaw Tower. That's a that's a tower in Macaw, China.
It looks exactly like the CN Tower in Toronto. That's
that tower with a little needle on it, of course,
and then the models had to go to the very
very top and go out on the ledge and do
a photo shoot. Yes, mind you, it was raining, it
was windy. He was like, it may have been even hailing.
And I talked to one of the models, the model
who won that season. I talked to one of the
models who said her biggest fear was heights, and she
confirmed it was hailing and they had to go out
there and try to look fierce while they are scared
to death. Of course they were in a harness, right,
But like, that's not what your mind thinks about when
you're like on the side of a seven hundred foot building.
You're thinking, what if this harness malfunctions? What if I
slip off of this, But you you can't let those thoughts.
They couldn't let those thoughts sort of get in the
way because they were supposed to take a great picture,
or so they were told, because the whole point in
them doing that is so we could see the models,
you know, be really terrified, be really afraid, and see
what that drama sort of produces. So when you're at like,
you know, Cycle eighteen, that's when that happened. When you're
on cycle eighteen and you're trying to top seventeen seasons
before and which they've done all of the top stuff,
you know, you end up hanging models off the side
of the seven hundred foot building because, like you said,
the ratings are slipping, you want people to still watch,
and these are the things they're tuning in for. See.
Speaker 1: I can relate with this bridget, and the reason why
is because, as that radio host, I was the dude
that sat there in my doboken martial arts, my second
degree black belt, and let a US military man shoot
a paintball gun at me just to see if it hurts.
And then I was the dude that would pour salt
into an open wound on my hand because that's what
people talk about. You want them to turn it into
a water cooler conversation.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and actually I started out in radio too, and
you get it. I get it.
Speaker 3: My third job, I was working at a public radio
FIS in Baltimore, and there was a pastor who was
doing this campaign to get people to vote, and so
he went on the top of the roof of a
building and camped out there. He was on a camp
there until a certain percentage of people from his community voted.
Speaker 2: And so I was like, well, I'll just go up
there with him. So there I am climbing up this.
Speaker 3: Ladder on the side of a building because I thought
it would be a good story.
Speaker 2: So I absolutely relate to it too.
Speaker 1: Please do not move. We are just getting started with
Bridget Armstrong, the name of the podcast Curse of America's
Next Top Model. We are back with Bridget Armstrong. Tell
me you did not cry a tear during this story
because you can't help but sit there and have so
much emotion for somebody who physically won the show but
had nothing, absolutely nothing.
Speaker 3: Yo wanna story was one of the most heartbreaking, and
partially because I remember Yo wanna remember ya?
Speaker 2: Wanna vividly.
Speaker 3: Yowana was the one who took that iconic helmet photo
and it's just her face and she's looking straight onto
the camera. A lot of viewers will remember yo Wanna
ya Wanna left the show, and this is something I
didn't realize. In the first seasons of America's Next Top Model,
there was no monetary prize, so the winner was winning
a contract, but that contract wasn't necessarily tied to a
certain amount of money. That winner was getting agency representation,
but again it wasn't a connected to money, so Yoana
had to use her money. She actually used the per diems,
which was a really small amount of money they got
every day. She just saved hers every day. She used
her money to move to New York. And when she
got to New York, she's one found out that she
couldn't use her portfolio from Top Model because it wasn't
realistic enough. So she had to go take all these
new pictures with these fancy photographers, and she was being
charged for that. She was being sent wardrobe because she
had to do all these appearances because she's the winner
of America's Next Top Model and the show was huge then.
Speaker 2: But she was being charged for that.
Speaker 3: Yo Wanna ended up sleeping on the couch of a
makeup art because she could not afford to pay for
anywhere to live in New York City. Yo Wanna was
broke the first years of Top Model, and one thing
she told me, she modeled for a bit, but she
also got into hosting and that is kind of how
she made money and built a career.
Speaker 2: But from Top Model, yes she was in debt.
Speaker 3: She still had to do promo for Top Model, and
she could never say, oh, by the way, this isn't
as great as it looks. I'm paying for all this
stuff and I'm broke because she signed in NBA, she
couldn't talk trash about the show.
Speaker 2: And so when you think.
Speaker 3: About these iconic winners, the people who really put A
ANDTM on the map, and you think, wow, even they
had a tough time after the show, while even they
were broke.
Speaker 2: You know, it really starts to put stuff into perspective.
Speaker 1: You know, I got to tell you something, more and
more I dug into this podcast, the more and more
I mean, it has been well written, so we can
say it that. You know, Tyra Banks, you know, is
one of the most feared villains on reality TV, and
I got to tell you and you might be able
to relate with this. Being a radio person, I think
she's perfect for radio station programming because that's exactly what
we need in leadership when it comes to radio. Somebody
who's going to step in there and really bring the game.
And if you get hurt, you knew.
Speaker 2: What it was.
Speaker 3: Absolutely I went into this podcast thinking like, Okay, this
is we're going to talk about the real side, what
really happened behind the scenes. But also, you know, I
was a fan of the show, so we're going to
like also appreciate that and appreciate Tyra. The more interviews
I did, the more research I did, I came to
the conclusion that I think Tyra Banks is an evil genius.
I really do, because this is a reason why the
show had so many viewers, why it was on for
so long. And I think a lot of people think
Tyra was just sort of a host or just a
pretty face. We need a model to host this model show.
This was Tyra Banks's idea. Tyra Banks came up with
the concept for America's Next Time Model and she yes,
she brought it to her executive producer, Kid mock. They
shopped it around to networks. They ended up getting picked up.
But this was Tyra's entire idea, and I think initially
Tyra shopped the idea around the networks and they thought
it was gonna be a bad idea. She had an
agent who actually told her nobody wants to see models,
they're unsympathetic. But Tyra was like, no, I have a
hit like this is going to be good. And she
was right. And if you look at so much of
the creative that went into that show, Tyra Banks had
a say in it. And I think she really understands
program I means she really understands television. I found out
that if Tyra Banks didn't pursue modeling, she was going
to school to pursue mass calm.
Speaker 2: She wanted to be like n TV, which I thought was.
Speaker 3: Really interesting, and she I think she really understands television
and what viewers want to see and what makes interesting television.
But like you're saying, some times that is not what's
always best for the contestants. For the people that are there.
You have to make card decisions, You have to make
difficult decisions. Sometimes those decisions don't age well because we're
talking about the curse of America's Next Top Model.
Speaker 1: Twenty years later, you know, we see everything that's taking
place on the show, and I still want to do
the research on this. As bad as it is and was,
we still think we are the next top model. We
are I know I can be on that show and
make a difference. Bridget Come on, that's me.
Speaker 2: That was so many of the models. I think yes
in the later seasons.
Speaker 3: Because ultimately we all think we're the exception, right like
we all think that know I'm going to be the
one that can beat the odds, And I will.
Speaker 2: Say there are While there are very.
Speaker 3: Few top models, right, there are very few that got
to that status. A lot of the contestants did model
in some capacity for a few years.
Speaker 2: They were able to make money of it out of it.
Speaker 3: There are a handful that had really good acting careers, right,
Like modeling wasn't the thing that popped off for them.
But there are movies, they are on television. There are
some models whose names we still today. There are some
models who went into other lanes of reality TV. So
there are people who went into it, and I don't
know if all of their intentions were to go on
and be a top model, or if some just wanted
to further their entertainment careers. There are people who were
able to take the opportunity and make the most out
of it. But also not everyone on that show got
it the same edit, right, Like not that everyone was.
If you go on that show and you're seen as
a winner who's a likable person, it may be easier
to roll that into something else.
Speaker 2: Maybe if you go on and you're a villain, right
and you.
Speaker 3: Don't mind being the villain, and you don't mind going
to go be the villain on another reality show, that
you can roll into something else.
Speaker 2: But a lot of the models just.
Speaker 3: Found that they were forgotten about that what they actually
wanted to do was to become a model, and they thought,
at least this was going to get me in the door,
and for some of them it did the opposite. It
got a lot of doors shut in their face.
Speaker 1: You have something on this show that really triggers me,
and I'm not the only one in the creative world
that goes through this, but it's one of those that
triggers me to the point where I will look at
somebody in the eyes and say, if you say what
you are saying, then you better get in this hole
and dig with me. It's when someone says I'm rooting
for you. Oh my god, that is a trigger in
my creative zone.
Speaker 3: We were rooting for You've seen into that. We get
into that. This is a this is a it's a
meme and this is why. Right, so pretty much everyone
has seen that. This is a moment in cycle four
where Tyra banks Like loses it. And Tyra's a lot
of things on that show, but she is rarely angry.
Speaker 2: You know, She's rarely angry and yelling at the contestants.
That wasn't her role.
Speaker 3: She's rarely mean to them, and but in this moment,
Tyra loses are cool. There was a contestant named Tiffany Richardson,
and Tiffany had been brought back from season three. This
is something we get into on an episode an upcoming episode.
Tiffany had been brought back from season three when she
got into a bar fight, right like, she got to
a bar fight with someone and she was sent away
to go get anger management and they brought it back
for cycle four. And when Tiffany comes back to the competition,
she is not doing well, right like she.
Speaker 2: Just feels like a fish out of water.
Speaker 3: She's sort of falling behind in the competition, and Tiffany
ultimately gets eliminated. And in the moment of elimination, Tiffany
goes to say goodbye to the other contestants, He's given
them hugs. She's kind of laughing, and that just kisses
Tyra off.
Speaker 2: What I think.
Speaker 3: You know, this is my opinion, but this is from
the research and like talking to people. I actually think
I think Tyra was telling the truth when she says
she was rooting for Tiffany. I think Tyra that was
Tyra's person to win, right.
Speaker 2: One of the things we kind of discovered is that there.
Speaker 3: Were I think, I don't want to say favorites, but
I think there were people who they wanted to win,
who had a good story.
Speaker 2: Right, and I think that was Tyra's person.
Speaker 3: And I think seeing her sort of laugh it off
or give up in Tyra's eyes, that just sent her
over the top. But we were able to talk to
some crew members who were there. We were able to
talk to other models from that season, and I will
say one of the things we discovered is that scene
is not what it appears there's a lot that was
going on behind the scenes. There's a lot that Tyris
said that was really mean and nasty to.
Speaker 2: Tiffany that got cut from what we actually saw.
Speaker 3: But there there's so many layers to that, and we
explore that in an upcoming episode, and we get into
Tiffany and Tiffany's original appearance on season three and how
she got sent home and how she got sent to
Anger Management and how that all came about, which was
through the psychiatric evaluations. We get into that on the
episode that came out today. So, yeah, that story. I
thought that that was just like, it's an iconic moment.
We should start with it. Oh, everybody knows that, But
there are layers to it.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, you've got to come back to this
show when I have more than just twenty minutes with you, because, man,
you and I can chew the same thing and be
on the same street speaking about things that just affect
our souls in the world of creativity.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I would love to come back.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Bridget, I'm so proud of you for
bringing this out. I really am.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
Speaker 3: Erro I hope everyone listens they can catch find this
podcast Curse of America's Next Top Model on Apple podcasts,
wherever you listen to podcasts, and that's when people prefer Spotify.
Wherever you get your podcasts, we're there. So thank you
so much for having me, Thanks for talking about this.
Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today? Okay, you too. Thank you