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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to another episode of the crime Pace

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a Bond. He doesn't podcast. I just wanted to have

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my friend Damon Tyan again to talk about composts. You know,

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he's always posting this stuff on his inter sham stories

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on the inter web, and you know it really inspires

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me and motivates me because they dabble and compost myself sometimes. So,

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by Dave, what is your day job? Actually? Man? What

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do you I don't understand what you do. I see

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you post on all kinds of You're sequencing DNA, you're

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teaching high school kids, you're doing zoom seminars, you're traveling

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all over the country. What is your actual job title?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Mike, my day job is I'm a curriculum

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train specialist for a company called bioad And so they're

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a big biotech company, usually sells stuff to researchers, but

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they've got a little plenty of education group. The translates

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what's going on in biotech and the stuff you can

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do hands on in a classroom. So that's everything from

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like extracting your own DNA and taking it home in

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a necklace if you're a second grader, all the way

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from doing DNA sequencing for taxol and your work for

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like high school and college kids.

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Speaker 1: You sequence, I mean, I use sequence a lot of

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fungi in the Oakland area the Bay area because that's

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where you live. So explain how to I mean, you're

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just you basically are extracting DNA to get solid identifications

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on the mushrooms that you find.

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Speaker 2: Right so, you know, on the West coast of America,

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we got this problem which is a lot of our

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mushrooms got European names because they kind of looked like

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stuff from Europe. But then as soon as you do

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a little micross could be and definitely sequencing, you realize, oh,

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this is somebody new. And so you know, I've been

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doing what I used to called bathtob PCR for a

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couple of years, which basically I'd take a shower in

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my bath, which you clean it out enough that I

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could do.

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Speaker 3: Molecular work in there.

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Speaker 2: I extract the DNA out of fun guy in there,

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and then do PCR. PCR is the plum raised chain

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reactions the way you can amplify DNA, and depending upon

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the primers that you use, these are just a little

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pieces of the DNA that target locations of the genome,

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you can amplify out specific piece of the geno. So

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what we would do is amplify out these kind of

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universal positions with in fungal genomes that we know little

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changes in them can help you understand the taxonomy.

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Speaker 3: So we amplify that out. And then once you.

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Speaker 2: Had that PCR product, I used to send that out

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for sayinger sequencing, but now there's been such a big

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change the last couple of years because everybody is using

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these nanopore sequencers that my you know, my buddy Hart

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who's been the sequencing head for the California Fungal Diversity Survey. Yeah,

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they're just pumping out, pumping out shit like crazy. I

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mean like you know, thousands of sequences every single run

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that he runs. And so last couple of years I've

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been a volunteer collector for that group, the California Fungal

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Diversity Survey, basically a harvesting fun guy from all over

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California and then feed into this pipeline and so like

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in two years that group where we put like twelve

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thousand collections in a fungarium calif csu E S Bay

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and then I think about ten thousand of those now

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have sequences thanks to Heart's probably blistered out, sore hands.

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Speaker 1: But great poor was the real game changer.

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Speaker 3: It was a huge game changer.

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Speaker 2: It brought the price down and then also you could

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just be dirtier, which is like anybody that works in

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community science trying to do molecular work, this is always

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a hiccup. Is like stuff comes in with bonus organisms,

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bonus DNA bananopore. Since it reads one DNA molecule at

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a time, you can just read the same sample, you know,

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one hundred times and then take the stuff that's garbage,

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put it in the trash ben and then take the

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stuff that's good and assemble it to understand what your

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actual sequence is.

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Speaker 1: When is it going to be the game changer? When's

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it going to be doable with plants? Like bathtub sequencing

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with plants.

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Speaker 2: Well, the technology isn't the problem. The choice of what

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to look for in the genome is the problem with plants.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, agentye matt ka or yeah so fun guy.

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Speaker 2: It's been relatively easy because like I t S, the

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inn h gets you pre dame far for most groups

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of like macro fungi. You know, we're ants. Yeah, exactly.

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This is the problem, like, which gene do I choose?

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Do I need five genes in order to be able

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to make an assessment of what I have to.

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Speaker 1: Compare it to and see how closely they're related and

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where it comes out, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But that being said, there's no reason somebody couldn't

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start doing this in the same way that I'd say,

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Stephen Russell's guy in Indiana is really the one that

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kind of kick the fungal amateur mycology group in the

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nuts and got us all doing nanopore. Somebody just needs

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to do that for plants, And then I think you'd

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see these kind of leaps and bounds in the knowledge

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of what genes to look for. Plants want to take

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it on.

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Speaker 1: Plants have a bunch of different gums and resins and

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cuticle and other shit to get in the weight. To

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make it a little bit more complicated, you know, right,

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removing that it's not the same as just grinding up

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a mushroom or something.

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Speaker 2: Right, it's a little more complicated. But that doesn't mean

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that somebody couldn't come up with a relatively universal protocol

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for extracting DNA. It would probably just be a little

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more tents where maybe you would be using some sort

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of solvent in order to remove those resins and then

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doing you know, more of this strait across six tractions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we need like we need an Allen Rockefeller

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for plants for doing sequencing of place. Yeah, making it,

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making it more accessible, doing it in the back of

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a car, you know whatever. But anyway, okay, so let's

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talk about Let's talk about the compost thing, because that

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was what I originally want, and then I want to

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ask about all the different the fly fungie that you

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were studying for a while to try and infect house flies.

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Speaker 3: Which was oh and I got I gotta go with

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the new place. I'm stoked.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about that first. Actually, what's going on there?

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What are you doing?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So it was like twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: I was on a hike Point Raise, this peninsula kind

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of sticks out in the Pacific in California, and I

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found this giant yellow dumbfly that was just fluffy, pink

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with a fungus and it was sitting on top of

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a grass stalk and I was like, WHOA, that's crazy.

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I started looking around and there's all of these lies

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beneath it in different basically well levels of infection. Then

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what happens with this fungus it's called the yeah, yeah,

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So what happens is we're back.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we had a little brief cutout. Okay, so you've

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seen all these flies with this stuff. They were all

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infected with this fungus. What's the name of the fungus.

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Speaker 2: Fly death fungus is the common name Entroopermafa moose Gue,

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and it basically turns them into zombies. And so what

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will happen is it takes over their neurosystem and all.

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The first thing happens is they can't use their wings,

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so they're kind of walking around like all kind of

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like awkward, like a zombie. And then they get some

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of disease, so they'll start climbing things and they'll usually

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want to get themselves, you know, a couple of feet

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off the grounds, and from a fungal point of view,

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you want to do this because you're gonna want to

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shoot spores down on things beneath you.

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Speaker 3: So they want to get them high and then right

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at sunset.

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Speaker 2: And this is the paper that just came out this

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year by the Elo Lab in New York. They realize

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that the fungus actually kills the fly right sunset, which

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is really kind of cool to kill the flight sunset,

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and then it busts out of the abnum and just

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like a joint I can find basically, and then just

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starts shooting spores. So the reason you kill the fly

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at midnight is the spores are unprotected.

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Speaker 3: They don't have melanin or anything in.

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Speaker 2: Them, and so you don't want to be shooting spores

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when there's a bunch of UV light out. So if

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you kill a fly at midnight or right at sundown,

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the spores will usually start launching around, like you know,

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one am or so, and so they're blasting out and

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then flies at this point are usually kind of still

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right there hanging out someplace, and so they have the

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chance then to get covered by these spores, get the

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infection before the sunlight comes up.

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Speaker 1: Does it have applications on farms? Do you think?

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Speaker 3: I think so.

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Speaker 2: I've seen Max Muddy from the UK a couple of

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years back set me a photo from like a farm

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situation he was at, and I've never seen an infection

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this big, but it was literally an entire wall of barn,

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thousands of flies all dead. I've never seen anything like

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that in the United States. But it's like you could

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potentially turn this into a biocontrol if you needed it,

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you know, and I think it does just you'll show

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it'll show up anytime you get a big enough density

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of flies around.

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Speaker 3: It will eventually find its way there.

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Speaker 1: But insects can get I mean, because of their their

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short generation will turnover. They can get. They can it

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seems like they can evolve resistance pretty quick. Do you

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think that's the case of this pathogen or no.

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Speaker 2: That's that's my gas. And that's why I think like

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when I have introduced it in places before, I won't

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see it blow out my entire population. It'll take a

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portion of it, you know, but it won't take the

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whole thing. And that's also kind of like being a

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good pathogen, right, you don't want to kill all your hosts.

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You want to kill this like fifty percent of them.

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We'll leave the rest there to eat later, you know,

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by your progeny.

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Speaker 1: But still, if you can reduce a ship fly population

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by fifty percent, that's going to make for a more

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pleasant picnic or outdoor eating of that. Yeah, you know,

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it's like fucking yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well for me, yea, I used to like make it

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so my my own apartment was more livable because I,

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you know, would compost like outside my window in my apartment.

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I used to brew beer in the apartments that had

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brain fruit flies and stuff. So that one fungus fly

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that I found out point raise, I brought home, put

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it in like just a mason jar with a couple

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of my fruit flies from my kitchen while I'm hanging

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out for you know, about half a day, and I

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released them and I never didn't think about it. And

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then I don't know, two months later, I was cooking

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in the kitchen. I got all hot and sweaty in there.

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I was like, oh man, I should I got to

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open these windows, opprik the windows. And then the next

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day when I come by to look at those windows,

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I had about four flies, all infected spores out stuck

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to the windows. And then ever since that primary infection,

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for seven years while I lived at fifteen oh two

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Allis Street, every time that apartment got warm and a

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little bit humid, I would get infected flies all over

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the place. And it took down three species. While I

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was there so I could can jump posts. At least

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the one I had that complex seemed like it was

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jumping hosts.

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Speaker 1: So any dip throat would it hit mosquitoes too, I wonder.

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Speaker 2: Ah, that's a good question. I mean, I have found

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this pastor. I did find one at my new place

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in San Leander that was coulex species of mosquito that

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was infected by something that looks like fly death fungus.

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I haven't sequenced it yet, but I think there is

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something that probably does infect mosquitos in the same way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're still you still got the You still

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have a little, uh magnifying clip for your phone that

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you just keep attached to your head all the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it looks like you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the majority, the majority of biological stuff is

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smaller than us. You got to be able to quickly

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like jump down and like look at small stuff.

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Speaker 3: As soon as you do that, you realize there's tons

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of shit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. This stuff, the stuff that I end up seeing

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on your stories is unlike shit that anyone else I

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know posts. It's like it's so fascinating. I'm like, what

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the fuck, man, where what does this guy? I mean,

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you pay attention to things that you know, like I

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would never notice. It's so few people pay attention to

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and that just goes right underneath everyone's noses. Like but

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like fascinating, you know, parts of the ecosystem, of the

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human environment, of like the you know, the built environment,

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like all kinds of weird fungal stuff, insects. It's really fascinating.

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So with the so to inoculate a fly, what do

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you You brought an infected fly home? Was it still

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alive or it was dead? It was dead already, I

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was dead. So you put it in the jar, but

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it had spores, and you put it in a jar

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with a couple other fruit flies and then release them.

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Speaker 2: Yep, and then release them because I want them to

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hopefully get an infection the spores and then fly away

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with it, and then hopefully it does its thing right,

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it sorts spreading through that population, and it seems it

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seems to you know, it seems to have worked. And

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then I did that at the new place, once I

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got my compost going. I'd found some fly death fungus

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on a hike, brought it home, mixed it in a

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jar with some fruit flies and let them out into

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my compost, and now it's much more seasonable. In the compost.

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There's like a couple of months during the summer wall

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see like fly deathlungers just go crazy in there. We'll

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open it up to the top and I've just got

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zombie out flies stuck.

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Speaker 1: To so but you basically it's just trying to figure

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out a vector for the to get the spores onto

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living flies and then they do the rest of the work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh and the other like interesting little thing that's

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also I think Ela Labb figured out from New York

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was that the fungus also produces a pheromone, at least

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in fruit flies, and that is the faeromone for.

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Speaker 3: Hey, come come after me.

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Speaker 2: So other fruit flies will be like, oh, yeah, I'm

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gonna go have sex with that zombies Jesus.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 1: God damn.

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Speaker 3: Brilliant, you know. So you're brilliant.

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Speaker 1: You could so if you wanted to, if you had

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a horrible fly problem on a farm, away to and

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would probably be to culture the fungus, get dead flies

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and then put it inside of like an insect trap

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that also had an attract and then like you know,

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something putrid, something rotting that would like a dog turt

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or something, right, and then yeah, I mean the spores

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in there and then just get them. I mean, yeah,

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what would a good what would a good vector be

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a good way to infect a mass amount of flies,

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like on a farm or something.

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Speaker 2: I mean exactly what we're talking now, which is go

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to where the flies are already showing up. Take a

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couple of these zombified flies that you found and just

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put them in that zone, and the other flies are

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going to walk all over them because they're producing sense

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you know, that attract other flies to them, and so

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they will get covered in those spores, you know. And

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so for most people, like if you learn to look

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for this fungus, you'll realize it is everywhere. But it's

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like learn you find your first one is going to

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be the biggest barrier. So for the most part, at

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least where I'm out in California, they will show up,

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namely in the spring after like a rain, h so

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we'll have high humidity and warmer temps. And then what

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you want to do is you want to walk through

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places that have big leaf trees, especially at the edge

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of like an opening, like a meadow or a field,

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or like a suburban lot, right, and I tend to

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be on the underside of leaves of you know, big

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leaf trees. So you just kind of go through and

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check the underside of a bunch of leaves and you'll

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find like a fly that's like stuck in a weird

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position and kind of white. And then sometimes you can

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see like a spray of spores all in the leaf.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh, damn.

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Speaker 2: That's great, And then you just take that to take

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that home, put it wherever you got a bunch of flies,

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and somebody will eventually get infected, is what I've seen.

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Speaker 1: So there's lots of entomopathogenic fungie, that's fungi that infect

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the insects. But Entomopra this genus is it is it

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related to Cordyceps or is it in its own family

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or or.

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Speaker 3: It's in its own family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's a group that elolab is ones that

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are really working on the taxonians right now because they've

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had a program for the last where you could send

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them your zombified flies, and what they're trying to do

329
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is figure out how diverse is this group that's attacking flies,

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you know, because like right now, there was a paper

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that came out maybe two years ago that shows that

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there is you know, host besipithy to some degree with

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some of these molecular signatures that they have, but it

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seems that some of them can still be relatively broad.

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So there's a lot of like you know, unanswered questions.

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I feel like with the taxonomy is still on.

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Speaker 1: I think i'd find one that attacked mosquitos like eighties agipti,

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which is invasive nearly everywhere. Yeah, it's not Africa. God,

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that'd be amazing, man.

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Speaker 2: And I think and I think it's I really think

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it's out there. I think it's just unseen. Can I

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mean just in this past year of kind of looking

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just in the East Bay Hills and by place in

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San Leandro, I mean I found the one that's on

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coulex on a mosquito, and I found that it was

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on a completely new like fly host up in Huckleberry Preserve.

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And I'm like, you know, I ask around and everybody's

348
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like all the excerpts like no, we haven't seen it

349
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on this yet. Uh. And so I think it's just

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they go miss the whole bunch because they're on small insects, right,

351
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and they're on small insects, usually under leaves, which turns

352
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out a ton of people aren't just like walking around

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looking under every leave.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and who's pretty small insects Mosquitos that are that

355
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,200
aren't flying around anyway. Man, they're so small there.

356
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think this, I think you you're right there.

357
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There could be a potential kind of like limited biocontrol,

358
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,399
you know, then that could happen here if we found

359
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,440
like a good, a good fungus that takes down mosquitoes, mosquitos,

360
00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:40,000
that's really what you want, right because everybody gets focused

361
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on like having like a one, one tool that's going

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to go after this pest. And that's the worst management

363
00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:51,000
strategy ever. That's like, that's just like not fucking understanding evolution.

364
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,840
That's how you get antibiotic resistance, right because people are like, oh,

365
00:16:53,879 --> 00:16:55,679
this use one antibiotic, which is a ship ton of it.

366
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Speaker 3: Oh bacteria of all the fight it.

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Speaker 1: Right, you need to diversify your.

368
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Speaker 2: Arc exactly because that's harder to evolve against.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh yeah yeah man. I on the on the

370
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,960
the regarding anthemopathogenic funny, there was this is kind of cool.

371
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,319
A friend of mine, uh in Equador, who lives in Equator.

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They he just helped the he just wrote a paper

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00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:18,799
on it. I'm pretty sure it just got yeah, just

374
00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:20,880
got described. I think it was in New York Times.

375
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,640
But yeah, the spider that mimics infection with a funk?

376
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What would the adaptive benefit.

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Speaker 3: Of that pep?

378
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,599
Speaker 2: I mean, I was that's like I've had this background

379
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,960
conversation with colored people and it's like, I don't know

380
00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:38,559
unless it's like, is it so prevalent that birds are like, oh,

381
00:17:38,559 --> 00:17:40,200
I don't want to eat that. That one tastes bad,

382
00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:44,400
you know, like actual you know, fungused out ones.

383
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,119
Speaker 3: Well, what's going on there?

384
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,119
Speaker 2: I really need to know more about that eco habitat

385
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:49,480
that's in.

386
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Speaker 1: Right, is it defense or does it help it hunt?

387
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,799
Or what? What is it? It's yeah, but it's such

388
00:17:54,839 --> 00:17:58,799
a weird it's such a weird adaptation. But something selecting

389
00:17:58,839 --> 00:18:00,960
for it obviously, like it wouldn't be there if something

390
00:18:01,039 --> 00:18:02,000
wasn't selecting for it.

391
00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:04,119
Speaker 3: Something's definitely sec for it.

392
00:18:04,519 --> 00:18:06,720
Speaker 1: How I don't know how big is the thing? Did

393
00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:08,359
you read that? I didn't actually read the paper. I

394
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,319
just saw photos of it and he posted about it.

395
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,319
Speaker 2: But I mean, the spider itself is about the size

396
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:14,160
like a thumbnail.

397
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, so like an inch, it's not.

398
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:17,279
Speaker 3: It's not huge.

399
00:18:17,599 --> 00:18:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

400
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,160
Speaker 2: This is where you see a lot of like kind

401
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,240
of like they give chivolulas and things like that that

402
00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:26,839
are infecting spiders. They tend to go after smaller spiders

403
00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:30,400
and they're not like the quarter steps. They're going after tarantula's.

404
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, God, there's a bunch of weird shit though.

405
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,079
In the tropics too. We were finding so many courtus

406
00:18:36,079 --> 00:18:39,400
steps down there when we were we were there a

407
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,759
few months ago. You were just in Vietnam, were you?

408
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:43,559
Speaker 2: Yeah?

409
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:44,680
Speaker 1: What were you? What were you doing there?

410
00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:50,440
Speaker 2: That was my My wife wanted to go and actually

411
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,279
I was trying to go to Sumatra and then she's like,

412
00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:53,640
I just really want to go to Vietnam.

413
00:18:53,759 --> 00:18:55,559
Speaker 3: So I was like, all right, whatever you do, you

414
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:56,400
plan it, I'll go.

415
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,240
Speaker 2: Sorry, man, the neighborhood crows just found me and don't

416
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,200
have my peanuts on me, so they're pissed off.

417
00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:03,880
Speaker 1: Oh you've been feeding them.

418
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 3: They they hey, hey, c one, shut up.

419
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, you get scrub jays too.

420
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,640
Speaker 1: I used to always love feeding the scrub jays when

421
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:14,400
I lived out there.

422
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got the scrub jaze in my arm. But

423
00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:18,440
like there are a lot more timids. We don't quite

424
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,920
have the relationship yet. But the crows I've been Uh,

425
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:23,960
I kind of feed them because they come in and

426
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,359
like harass my squirrels. You mean I get to actually

427
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,920
have like apricots in the spring.

428
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 1: Oh, they drive the squirrels away. Oh shit. Oh so

429
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,000
this is like a symbiotic setup. You've got. It's a

430
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,079
mutualistic association. You're not just feeding the birds, You're you're

431
00:19:39,079 --> 00:19:40,960
paying them to keep the squirrels away.

432
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:42,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like that.

433
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,559
Speaker 2: So you're walking down the street and it feels like

434
00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:47,200
I'm getting harassed by the mafia. Here got those fun

435
00:19:47,519 --> 00:19:49,839
those my shorts, my shirts.

436
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,279
Speaker 1: The fox squirrels in the East Bay are were a

437
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,640
fucking nightmare. Man. They're where they they're from. They're from

438
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,759
the East coast right where the Where are fox squres?

439
00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:58,799
Speaker 3: The Midwest?

440
00:19:58,880 --> 00:19:59,079
Speaker 2: Yeah?

441
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,039
Speaker 1: Got the I liked youwhere man?

442
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 2: Everywhere? I mean, I've got your have a heart trap

443
00:20:04,759 --> 00:20:07,440
and I swear to God, like during the springtime, I'm

444
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,039
pulling a squirrel like every other day and then taking

445
00:20:10,079 --> 00:20:11,480
it up to the Coyote hill zone.

446
00:20:11,559 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 1: Oh.

447
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,880
Speaker 2: I just thought they just keep they just they just

448
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,200
keep coming. That's crazy.

449
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,559
Speaker 1: But I just started shooting the fuckers. I felt bad,

450
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:19,799
fuck it, you know, with like a little pelican, because

451
00:20:19,839 --> 00:20:22,559
it got that bad. It would destroy so much and

452
00:20:22,599 --> 00:20:25,240
nothing was keeping them in check, you know, like the

453
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,039
nine thousand feral cats on my block wouldn't do anything.

454
00:20:28,079 --> 00:20:30,359
And then the it was so I would just started shooting.

455
00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:33,039
It sucks, but you know, it's you have to become

456
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,799
You're part of the ecosystem. You have to be the

457
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,599
checks and balances. My friend Martin would do that too,

458
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,920
you know, like this him and his husband, like this

459
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:42,920
seventy five year old gay cup. I remember I came

460
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,480
to their door once and and I knocked on the door.

461
00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:48,079
I was with a friend visit them from New York.

462
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,559
We knocked on the door and and uh and Martin's

463
00:20:51,599 --> 00:20:54,759
husband opens the door and just sees a squirrel, reaches

464
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,880
to the side of the inside of the door, pulls

465
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,759
out a fucking pellet rifle and shoots the thing like

466
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:01,960
clear of you. And my friend was like, oh my god.

467
00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:03,720
I was like from New York, she's not used to,

468
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:09,279
you know, such acts violence of aggression. Yeah, and so

469
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,119
and then he's like, he closes the door, he sees

470
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,480
the mail man. He's because you know, in Emoryville that's

471
00:21:14,519 --> 00:21:16,279
like a big deal. I don't want you doing that shit.

472
00:21:16,759 --> 00:21:18,359
In Texas it wouldn't be anything. But he was like

473
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:19,920
all right, you know, he's like, go run the back.

474
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,319
You know, he's like he's so sketchy and shit. I

475
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,559
was like, what the fuck. It's like, oh yeah, man,

476
00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:28,799
they'll destroy you know, exceptionally wear plants and yeah, they

477
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,200
dig up, they'll fucking ruin everything. Man. So but uh

478
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,920
but yeah, anyway, so okay, so uh well let's talk.

479
00:21:36,039 --> 00:21:38,240
I want to talk about your compost setup because you're

480
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,079
doing I mean the ship I see you doing with

481
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,039
you do the biochar uh and then you're I mean

482
00:21:44,319 --> 00:21:46,279
I was I wrote you because I was having trouble

483
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,359
with my own setup. I got a wood shipper and

484
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,000
I was putting coffee grounds in it, and the ship

485
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,519
would get hot, it would get like one hundred and

486
00:21:53,559 --> 00:21:56,799
forty five degrees for and I'd measure with the thermometer.

487
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,839
But then you know, I had, like I also have

488
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,799
got like a bunch of tumbler that I was putting

489
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:04,359
coffee grounds and dog shit in and just whatever. You know,

490
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,759
I was like, fuck it, just let it, let it roast.

491
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:09,559
I'm not growing vegetables, so I have to worry about

492
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,240
you know, uh, pathogens. I just want to get it hot.

493
00:22:13,279 --> 00:22:16,519
And and but then the fucking tumblers slowed down like

494
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:19,240
they weren't hot. They were like one hundred degrees maybe,

495
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,359
which is you know, it's gonna be.

496
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 3: Here hold for your prie Texas.

497
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well we're in like the mid eighties mid

498
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:29,119
and it's gonna be ninety six today. But but yeah,

499
00:22:29,279 --> 00:22:32,000
normally it's super hot, and it's it's generally too hot

500
00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:34,839
for earthworms. So we you know, soldier fly larva are

501
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,240
what really you know, quote unquote meal worms. They're mostly

502
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:42,920
what do most of the the breaking down here. But

503
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,480
but yeah, man, I mean I don't I don't know

504
00:22:44,519 --> 00:22:46,119
what was So if you got to, if you get

505
00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:48,799
I'd like the tumblers because they're easy. What's your opinion,

506
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,960
You like the tumblers or you like the big towers

507
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,319
that you just stir with a shovel like a sharpshooter

508
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:53,799
or something.

509
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I like I like the big towers that

510
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,720
there's actually one specific one that really like and maybe

511
00:22:59,759 --> 00:23:02,319
it's just it was one of the first compost heaps

512
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:03,880
I ever got, so it's used to using it. But

513
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,039
it's these biostacks, and it was by Cooper Hawkins. They

514
00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:11,119
don't make them anymore, but they're basically just a tall

515
00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:16,839
stack of these three by three by one foot plastic

516
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,559
bands and you can just stack on top of each other.

517
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,200
So the nice thing is you get two of them

518
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,079
and you can just load one up and then as

519
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:25,960
soon as it's like kind of starts to slow down

520
00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:28,680
the heat, you just pull out the shovel and then

521
00:23:28,759 --> 00:23:31,359
just shovel into the other one or the restack it,

522
00:23:31,799 --> 00:23:33,519
and so you can just kind of you can turn

523
00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:35,559
it relatively quick that way. And the reason I like

524
00:23:35,599 --> 00:23:39,880
that one is it's just the tumbler's breakover time. I

525
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,119
don't care how well you build a tumbler, like they've

526
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,480
kind of just rattled themselves aparts. I feel for these biostacks.

527
00:23:46,519 --> 00:23:49,039
I mean, all the ones I got, I'm getting from

528
00:23:49,079 --> 00:23:52,960
like Criigslist or Facebook, marketplace or my buddy will we'll

529
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,279
see them online or like on his bike and just

530
00:23:55,279 --> 00:23:58,440
call me up and be like corner of Addison, you know,

531
00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:01,920
thirty second, come get one and so you know, I've

532
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,319
just been giving me out to all my friends because

533
00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:06,279
they're just so stable. Like most of these ones that

534
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:08,680
are in the Bay Area, they were giving them out

535
00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:11,880
basically like an early two thousands, So all these people

536
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,279
have them and they're still you know, twenty years later,

537
00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:16,759
and they're like fucking rock solid.

538
00:24:17,799 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: There's no stackable like compost. Then. Yeah, I haven't seen

539
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,000
like this.

540
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,079
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, all these all these ones, I see that,

541
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,799
like you know, you know, buddies that aren't in the

542
00:24:28,839 --> 00:24:31,200
area by or these ones are kind of as like

543
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,200
roundish or squarish domes.

544
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,039
Speaker 3: They have one ass.

545
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 2: Flap on the bottom and then a place to put

546
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:37,799
stuff in at the top.

547
00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:40,039
Speaker 3: And the problem is you can't get it irrated.

548
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you gotta get this.

549
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 3: What I got to do.

550
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: My mine's a fucking workout if I want to. It's

551
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,960
like a three foot tall cheap plastic thing I got

552
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,440
on Scamazon or something. It's like three feet tall, but

553
00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:54,680
like you know, in the door on the bottom brakes

554
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,359
and ship it doesn't really fit. It'll work, I mean,

555
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,200
because where I live it's just it's so hot that

556
00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:02,519
like I can't have it open. It'll just it'll fucking

557
00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:05,640
dry out and turn into tryout. Yeah, and then the tumbler.

558
00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:08,160
The issue with that is that it's too it's like

559
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,359
a wet wad inside, so like eventually I spin it

560
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,920
and it doesn't even it doesn't even tumble. Man, it's

561
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,279
not even tumbling. I don't know what I should do,

562
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:16,799
if I should just open the top and let it

563
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,920
dry out a little bit or what.

564
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 2: Probably Yeah, so it's just becoming like one giant like

565
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,319
roving dog turn in there.

566
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: Well it's not just dog shit, but there's there's like

567
00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:30,519
food scraps in there too. But then I put woodships.

568
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:33,000
But it's not like it's not tumbling right, It's like

569
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:35,319
I think it's too small. It's not the right size.

570
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,880
I used to have this one by tumbleweed that was

571
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,759
more like pill shaped, like a long pill shape, like

572
00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:45,759
a you know, like the fucking antibiotic style pills, not

573
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:48,359
like a tablet. This is more like a tablet shape,

574
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,680
so it's more like a disc. But so I'll have

575
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,519
to go in there and just and then stir it

576
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:54,559
around anyway, which is a pain in the ass because

577
00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:56,799
the holes not big enough. And it's yes, I think

578
00:25:56,799 --> 00:26:01,799
I'm gonna move to towers, but but getting that you're getting.

579
00:26:01,559 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 3: The something in there.

580
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get the ratio is right, But I'm wondering

581
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,319
if all some of those tumblers, if you could do

582
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,200
with like what people do with like their dryers. You know,

583
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,519
they'll put like a big ass like ball in there.

584
00:26:12,599 --> 00:26:14,119
But bas so you don't want something that like doesn't

585
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,799
break down. So maybe like stone or just some really

586
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,119
you know, dense wood kind of help mil mill it

587
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,519
a little bit probably.

588
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,079
Speaker 1: When you think it, yeah, a stone, so it'll actually

589
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,599
move it around. But also I think just not filling

590
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,440
it up, which is important. So anyway, I off to

591
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,000
go in there and like shovel the ship out. And

592
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:34,880
I just the reason I wanted to start doing this

593
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,200
was because just for making my own soil, because for

594
00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:41,440
h you know, for an additive to soil, because it's

595
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,279
hard to get soil down here. I've have like tried

596
00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:45,920
all different mixtures for just like for potting up anything

597
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,039
from cacti to fucking whatever. And because again because it's

598
00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:50,720
so hot, I've got to use thick soil. I only

599
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,920
had a little bit of parlay, but I would put

600
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,200
you know, get coarse sand normally just get it from

601
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,720
the steel from a golf course or something makes it.

602
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,519
Mix it with some ship They call it soil conditioner,

603
00:27:01,559 --> 00:27:04,799
but it's essentially just like pine bark chips. It's really good.

604
00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:07,319
Whatever it is, it's like pine bark or juniper, but

605
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,839
it like really improves the soil texture and because of

606
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,599
the residents, it doesn't rot, so it's not you know,

607
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,480
it's a great additive. And then yeah, and then I'll

608
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,599
put composts and maybe some vermiculate to give aeration and

609
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,960
soil and I don't know, I'm like a soil chef.

610
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,960
I mix it, just mix around.

611
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the first guys I saw like, I think,

612
00:27:28,279 --> 00:27:31,079
like you're going to these long explanations as you're like

613
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,519
blending up stuff in a bucket more or less. And

614
00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:35,000
I was like, oh sure, I'm gon have to start

615
00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:36,759
doing that. They way back in the day.

616
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,519
Speaker 1: I was trying a year ago. I was trying to

617
00:27:38,599 --> 00:27:42,720
use juniper like they call it cedar shames so you

618
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,119
can get it from the store here. But that was

619
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,160
actually shitty. It's got to break down more. I used

620
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,960
a little bit. I mean, if you could chop them up,

621
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,920
you know more, that would work. But it was like

622
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:56,359
just shaved junipers ashyi shavings, which sucked. That was fucking goofy.

623
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,119
That was clownish. I mean I learned my lesson after

624
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,279
like a month or two. But you know what help

625
00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:02,039
those get in that woods? You have a woodship or

626
00:28:02,079 --> 00:28:04,720
don't you like one of those little ms that those

627
00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:08,079
are fucking great man, and they shave it. They give

628
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,319
you really like fine particled shavings. You know.

629
00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a prizingly good And I see a lot

630
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,079
of people like shit, talk to them and like their

631
00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:18,640
problem is they don't take them apart and occasionally sharpen

632
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:19,119
the blade.

633
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,799
Speaker 3: Yeah it's going downside, pull them apart, sharp blade case.

634
00:28:22,079 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: It takes five minutes with the fucking dremal, you know,

635
00:28:24,519 --> 00:28:26,279
I do it five minutes with a dremal and a

636
00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:28,759
dremal attachment, and you can see the blade. You're like, oh, yeah,

637
00:28:28,759 --> 00:28:31,680
that's dull. I just got to shave it, basically shave

638
00:28:31,759 --> 00:28:34,759
the edge off, sharpen it, and it takes it literally

639
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:36,720
takes five minutes. I do it like if I'm using

640
00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:39,640
it every day. I do it once a week. And

641
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,440
like the molts you get, the woodschips you get, they're

642
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,279
not really it's not really like enough to mulch with.

643
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,839
I guess you could, but it's mostly just for for

644
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,160
compost because that's the for organic mix for soil. That's

645
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,559
all it is. It's just broken down organic material. So

646
00:28:53,599 --> 00:28:56,599
I'll mix that with coffee grounds. You can go to Starballs.

647
00:28:57,039 --> 00:28:59,759
You can get a fucking you know, two pound or

648
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:03,559
ten pound bag of soil of used coffee grounds in

649
00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:06,880
a morning, you know, And that gets how what else

650
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,559
should I be doing to this though in the tower?

651
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:11,960
If it's just coffee grounds and wood wood chips.

652
00:29:13,599 --> 00:29:16,559
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the other things that I've started

653
00:29:16,599 --> 00:29:19,559
doing in the last two years I really like is

654
00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:23,640
all my leeds on the property. I will ferment those

655
00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:26,559
before going into the compost with them, and I feel

656
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:29,319
like that just blows up the heat really quick. So

657
00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:31,480
it's acting kind of like as like a brown a

658
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,240
little bit in your compost because like compos most people

659
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:35,720
talk about having greens and browns.

660
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: Greens are mainly like your nitrogen.

661
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:40,359
Speaker 2: Stuff, like your food waste, and then browns are kind

662
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,680
of your scrappy, you know, woody stuff or plant stuff.

663
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,000
But the beautyful I'm doing the fermentation is it changes

664
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:49,319
the redox state on a lot of the compounds in

665
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:52,440
these plants, and so when you then throw that into

666
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,079
an aerobic environment, we got a bunch of oxygen, which

667
00:29:55,119 --> 00:29:58,079
is your compost, it'll just release a bunch of heat

668
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,720
because you have this redox reaction taking place.

669
00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:02,039
Speaker 3: And so I feel like that's great.

670
00:30:02,119 --> 00:30:06,039
Speaker 2: And then also the fermenting of the weeds guarantees me

671
00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:07,960
that even if I screw up my compost, I'm not

672
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,839
gonna end up with a bunch of weed seeds in

673
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:12,079
my compost material later.

674
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 3: On, because like, explain, how do you a lot of seeds.

675
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: How do you ferment? How do you ferment the weeds?

676
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,359
If you're pulling weeds five gallon bucket?

677
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a really tough protocol. Where you get a

678
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,319
five gallon bucket and you just jam the weeds in

679
00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:27,640
there as much as you can, and then you top

680
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,160
it off the water and then forget about it for

681
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,000
about two to three weeks. It kind of bubble or anything.

682
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,119
You Actually, I want it to get anaerobic. So I

683
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,920
want it to get smelly, because that tells me that

684
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,920
ship's going down and that I've got this redox reaction

685
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:44,720
taking place.

686
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:48,039
Speaker 1: Explain the redox reaction for the listeners because they may

687
00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:53,119
not you know, we got guys that are just paying houses. Yeah.

688
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 3: Either way you think about this is like.

689
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: You're anything that goes through fermentation will accumulate a bunch

690
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,759
of acids, and acids are basically ways to kind of

691
00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:10,799
store electrons and compounds to some degree, and so that

692
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,200
is now a reduced substance. So your beer, your beer

693
00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:17,880
is a pretty reduced kind of material. So when you

694
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,960
drink it, you know, it goes in your gut, which

695
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,599
is relatively aerobics. Got much oxygen there. You'll release a

696
00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:27,519
bunch of energy like warmth from it due to oxygen

697
00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:30,720
coming in and stealing those electrons, and in that process,

698
00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:34,359
heat is released, and so that's what's going on there.

699
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,680
So you're basically producing a munch of acids and then

700
00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:41,640
using oxygen later to then liberate those the electrons in

701
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,599
those acids, and that's what's going to give you.

702
00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:46,119
Speaker 3: That extra heat in the compost. And you know, it.

703
00:31:46,079 --> 00:31:48,839
Speaker 2: Doesn't take much to kind of run this. It's literally

704
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,079
put stuff in water, let it sit for a couple

705
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:53,960
of weeks and you start to get that kind of

706
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,039
you get that a little bit of sewage smell to

707
00:31:56,079 --> 00:31:57,680
it and then you're like, oh, yeah, now I know

708
00:31:57,759 --> 00:31:59,799
it's good. And so there's two things you can do

709
00:31:59,839 --> 00:32:02,519
with the point. You could take that liquid, pour it

710
00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:04,759
into another bucket and kind of pour it back and

711
00:32:04,759 --> 00:32:07,519
forth a couple of times, and you'll oxidize that liquid now,

712
00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:11,839
and that'll kill most of the anaerobic bacteria that you've generated.

713
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:15,119
Speaker 1: Oxidizing it just by just by mixing it up. Essentially,

714
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:16,720
it's like.

715
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,519
Speaker 2: Just just by mixing it up. Yeah, you'll see like

716
00:32:18,599 --> 00:32:20,720
people on I don't know YouTube and should try and

717
00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:24,920
sell you like oxygen stones and like errating basically.

718
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: So just throwing it like back and forth between the

719
00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:30,519
buckets and it gets the oxygen in there. And it's

720
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:37,200
so readox stands for reduction oxidation, and you know reduction

721
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:40,000
is the gaining of electrons. So it's kind of counterintuitive

722
00:32:40,039 --> 00:32:43,440
you think, you know reducing, but you're actually gaining electrons.

723
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,920
Reduction gain electrons, oxidation loss of electrons. And so when

724
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,000
you're getting so basically you're you're oxidizing it that mixture

725
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,480
when you're pouring it back and forth between the buckets.

726
00:32:55,599 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 2: Right, and it's through two things you're going to oxidize

727
00:32:57,759 --> 00:33:00,279
those compounds. But then more importantly here for me, what

728
00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:01,880
I'm gonna do with this is I'm ultimately gonna use

729
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,960
it as a liquid fertilizer on my plants. So the

730
00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:07,319
reason I want to oxidize all of that is it'll

731
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,400
kill those organisms that only live in that anaerobic environment.

732
00:33:11,039 --> 00:33:14,359
And this is why people that do like oyster mushroom cultivation.

733
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,559
You'll see some of them do this kind of like

734
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,839
cold barrel technology. It'll take a bunch of head. They'll

735
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,920
put it in a barrel, cover with water, let it get funky,

736
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,759
and then pull it out and then let it basically

737
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:26,599
sit out for you know, a couple of minutes on

738
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,920
a table, and then they'll just mix their my ceiling

739
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,720
in there, and and then my and the mushroom my

740
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,599
ceiling takes off. The reason it can do that is

741
00:33:32,599 --> 00:33:36,400
because all of those organisms that codd that straw, as

742
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,480
soon as you expose them to air, they all die.

743
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,799
And so you've got like at that point that one

744
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,640
moment time you kind of have like a semi stero ish,

745
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:47,279
you know, environment where you don't have much competition.

746
00:33:47,359 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: They need an anaerobic environment. That's why they die when

747
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:51,920
you expose them to air.

748
00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, damn, damn.

749
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,839
Speaker 1: So so sorry, go ahead.

750
00:33:57,799 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 3: A bucket.

751
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: You can take that liquid. You can take that liquid

752
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,640
after you oxidized that, and then you know use that.

753
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:05,640
You know, I will usually dilute it like one to ten,

754
00:34:05,799 --> 00:34:08,360
one to twenty in water, and then you know, use

755
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,280
that on my plants and then the and then the

756
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,159
leftover biomass that's in that bucket, that the real stinky,

757
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,440
sludgy old weeds that now goes into compost and that

758
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,599
you know, that usually picks up the temperature of my

759
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:22,679
compost pretty well.

760
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: So that fermented stuff that you put on your plants,

761
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,920
that liquid that's rich in nitrogen, which is a product

762
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,079
of the plants, the weeds breaking down or what.

763
00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:34,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a product of that and

764
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,599
those microbes right that have been growing in an anaerobic environment,

765
00:34:38,039 --> 00:34:40,360
because you've also grown a bunch of them, and so

766
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,119
they've kind of increased the complexity of the compounds from

767
00:34:44,119 --> 00:34:47,360
the plants right by having to run their metabolism. And

768
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,079
so I mean usually when I think about like trying

769
00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:51,280
to do with my property, I don't have like a

770
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,199
target compound. I'm trying to get to. My big thing

771
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,360
is just diversity. That's diversity in terms of organisms, it's

772
00:34:58,519 --> 00:35:02,159
diversity in terms of CA pounds, because the more diversity

773
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,159
any place has, the more likely it'll survive changes inny

774
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,320
you know, environment or conditions and things like that. Yeah,

775
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,280
and so I know a life people get really focused on, like, oh,

776
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,039
I just need to get some more I don't know

777
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,440
uria from my plants. That's like, yeah, it was like some,

778
00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:21,079
but it'd also probably like a diversity of nitrogen carrying compounds.

779
00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:23,400
You know, that's going to make your plant survive a

780
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,280
lot better as things as things change around you.

781
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 1: So that I wanted like a nasty ass five gallon bucket.

782
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,360
I remember I stepped in one of those. I when

783
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,480
I was a kid. I'm fucking I'll never forget, man.

784
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,719
I was like seven. We were you know, we used

785
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,039
to go crawl through the alleys and in between people's

786
00:35:38,039 --> 00:35:40,719
houses and garages and shit. You could get away with

787
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,480
trespassing thing because you know, we were seven. And I

788
00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:47,079
remember behind this old man's garage that lived on my block,

789
00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:50,119
I stepped in this fucking bucket that it just filled

790
00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:52,000
with rain water, had a bunch of leaves in it,

791
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,000
and it was the most putrid smelling shit, and I

792
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,079
didn't I remember that smell. It was such a traumatizing

793
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:00,679
event because it was like up to my ankle, up

794
00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:02,199
to my knee, it was actually up to like my

795
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,840
shin in this nasty bucket and it smelled like, yeah,

796
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,199
like sewage, but it was just rotting leaves. I couldn't.

797
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,559
I'm like that someone pissing his bucket. But it was

798
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:13,880
just rotting leaves behind the Stude's house. So you're saying,

799
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,519
you want all that's all good shit, that's all nutrients,

800
00:36:16,519 --> 00:36:18,400
that's stuff breaking down. You want to put that on

801
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,079
the plants and then throw that shit in the compost too.

802
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,599
Speaker 2: Yep, exactly, And that smell will go away as soon

803
00:36:24,639 --> 00:36:26,960
as stuff has a chance to kind of oxidize, so

804
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:29,320
that smell will be really bad, right, and then as

805
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,719
soon as you add it to your soil, you know it,

806
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,840
that smell is gone, probably within about two days tops

807
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,639
it's you won't even notice that it's there.

808
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: All the bacteria are dying. All the bacteria are dying

809
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,800
upon exposure to oxygen basically exactly.

810
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, all those methanogens that are producing all those really nasty.

811
00:36:48,079 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 3: Scents you know, will go away.

812
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,679
Speaker 2: However, you know, cautionary tail here you get your hand

813
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,239
in there and you stick your foot in there by accident, Yeah,

814
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,639
your your leg, your skin is gonna smell like that

815
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,039
for a solid day. Like I accidentally just dropped my

816
00:36:59,199 --> 00:37:01,360
uh phone in my bucket last night.

817
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,679
Speaker 1: God damn, what did you do? How did you get

818
00:37:05,679 --> 00:37:07,639
out of that? Just tea troil or something? What do you?

819
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,119
I mean, how do you get rid of that?

820
00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:13,119
Speaker 2: Mean? Ico probele alcohol, so that'll pick up a lot

821
00:37:13,159 --> 00:37:14,599
of that stuff. So I just went through with some

822
00:37:14,679 --> 00:37:16,960
toilet paper and Ico propeleluccol wiped it down in most

823
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:17,920
that sense called.

824
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: But your phone didn't die, like it was just a

825
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:20,400
quick dip or what.

826
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 2: It's just it was a quick dip I remember, Like

827
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,000
my phone, you know has gone swimming lake merrit and

828
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,880
stuff like that, Like it's yeah, this is park par

829
00:37:28,039 --> 00:37:29,280
for the course probably why.

830
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: Just like merits smell so bad? That's just like bird

831
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,400
shitt and rotting seaweed or what.

832
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yeah, it's the birch of the Ryan seaweed.

833
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,559
But then also you get these anaerobic mudflats there, you

834
00:37:39,559 --> 00:37:42,559
get all that stuff just precipitating, you get a solid

835
00:37:42,639 --> 00:37:45,440
later on top, and then it goes anaerobic, especially a

836
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,000
foot down. You're completely anaerobic in Lake Merit. Uh huh.

837
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,880
I mean I've gone digging in there one time, and

838
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,559
I mean it gets Jesus. You get down a couple

839
00:37:55,519 --> 00:37:59,360
of feet in there, Holy crap, that smell. It's really

840
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,079
hard to get off for a couple of days.

841
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,039
Speaker 1: So why do why do aerobic bacteria generally not smell

842
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:06,679
as terrible as anaerobic.

843
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: I can't point to the exact compounds, but you know,

844
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,960
in general, it's just the compounds are producing during their

845
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,679
metabolism are way way different. Yeah. So a lot of

846
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:22,400
these methanogens, right, they can process sulfree compounds that other

847
00:38:22,519 --> 00:38:23,679
things aren't.

848
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: In the same way.

849
00:38:24,679 --> 00:38:26,519
Speaker 2: And so that's why you get this really bad stink

850
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:28,840
usually a lot of times due to these sulfur compounds

851
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:32,440
and and some of these answer of the nitrogen compounds

852
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:33,360
that they can produce too.

853
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,639
Speaker 1: Okay, so what about what about like, because you're in

854
00:38:35,679 --> 00:38:37,960
a mild climate, you're in a Bay area, what about

855
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,159
people like me who are living in South Texas or Tucson,

856
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,519
who are I mean composting, there's a whole different ballpark

857
00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:48,480
when it's one hundred hundred. Yeah, freeze, and then what

858
00:38:48,599 --> 00:38:53,679
about like cultivating or trying to isolate or cultivate and

859
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,320
bring out the more heat tolerant natural species of bacteria

860
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,800
and fungi that are just naturally occurring. How you know, Like,

861
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,880
what's that method called the Korean.

862
00:39:04,519 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 3: K and F Korean natural farm.

863
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 2: So, I mean this is something this is something anybody

864
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:11,280
should do any place they live. You're about to start

865
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,000
your compost heap, first thing you want to do is

866
00:39:14,119 --> 00:39:18,320
go to some like native plant habitats that are close

867
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,519
by to you that have some sort of duff layer.

868
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,880
You know, not everybody has a big duff layer. So

869
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,239
it's like, you know, if you can just find someplace

870
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,679
where a little bit of like plant debris is.

871
00:39:28,599 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 3: Accumulating, you can do two things.

872
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,119
Speaker 2: You can be lazy, like you could just take a

873
00:39:33,119 --> 00:39:35,360
couple of fistfols that home and then just throw that

874
00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:38,639
in the compost. Or the classic K and F Korean

875
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,159
natural farming way of doing this, you'd make a little

876
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,360
box and you'd put some basically cooked rice in there,

877
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,440
and then you'd bury that in the place where that

878
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:51,239
plant debris being broken down in the dust or even

879
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,880
in the soil a little bit into the ground. Let

880
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,480
that go for a couple of days, and then go back,

881
00:39:56,639 --> 00:39:59,639
harvest that and take that home. What happen is a

882
00:39:59,639 --> 00:40:02,039
lot those microorganisms that they are gonna be good for

883
00:40:02,079 --> 00:40:04,760
your composts. We'll grow onto that rice and you can

884
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,320
use that rice to inoculate your compost with.

885
00:40:07,679 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the ship that's what. That's pretty, that's nice.

886
00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:14,639
Speaker 2: And that's the smart thing, right because all those microbes

887
00:40:14,679 --> 00:40:20,079
are already evolved to deal with your habitat. You know,

888
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,480
they're used to that temperature, they're used to that humidity,

889
00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:24,280
they're used to that soil complexity.

890
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: There is some wild stuff in the soil here too,

891
00:40:27,159 --> 00:40:30,519
like wild very regionally specific, because we've got these you know,

892
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,519
sandy loam, fine particled calcareous clays and shit. And then

893
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,320
you got like you know, go to like a spot

894
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,159
where there's like Texas ebony trees and blackbrush and they

895
00:40:40,199 --> 00:40:43,239
create a nice duff on the ground mesquites of the leaves.

896
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,559
When last year's leaves fall off, you go in that

897
00:40:46,039 --> 00:40:47,800
big a little hole on air, put the box in

898
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,079
their probably have to do it before a rain down

899
00:40:50,119 --> 00:40:52,320
here because it's just or bring your own water somehow

900
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,039
or something, you know, and get the water around the

901
00:40:55,079 --> 00:40:58,519
soil around it wet, and then yeah, just let it

902
00:40:58,519 --> 00:41:00,159
go to town and come back in a week or to

903
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,840
and pick it up, throw it on the compost. That

904
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,039
would be really cool to find out what's in there too.

905
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean a little exterm that any of

906
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,280
you can do, even if you're not gonna be starting

907
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,159
combos at your house, you know, is go out to

908
00:41:11,159 --> 00:41:13,960
that native habitat, get a couple of those leaves that

909
00:41:14,079 --> 00:41:16,039
fall on the ground, and then just put it like

910
00:41:16,079 --> 00:41:18,840
in a plastic to go container and splt it with

911
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,199
a little bit of water, pop a couple holes in

912
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,119
the top, and then just set that on a shelf

913
00:41:24,159 --> 00:41:25,719
and then look at every couple of days and what

914
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,639
you'll see is you'll see all that micro you know,

915
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,920
world pop out of those leaves over the course of time,

916
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,760
so a lot of those fun guys that are inside

917
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,280
the leaves will start to erupt. You'll see bacterial colonies start,

918
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,360
and you can kind of get you know, you can

919
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,039
put yourself in a place to appreciate actually the biodiversity

920
00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:45,199
in your place. Even if you think you don't have

921
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,880
any because you're in a hot, dry place. No, man,

922
00:41:48,079 --> 00:41:50,599
life has not a way to make it everywhere. A

923
00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:53,400
lot of times it's just add water, you know, and

924
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,480
give it some time and you'll see stuff pop out.

925
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. For me, what I think is so cool about

926
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,199
where I live. I mean, you know, I'm not talking

927
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,719
about the fucking car dealerships and the billboards and all

928
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,280
the heinous shit that Texas is so good at, but

929
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:11,480
you know, the regional specificity of the climate and the

930
00:42:11,519 --> 00:42:14,239
soil and the fucking plants. There's just so much cool

931
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,239
stuff down here. You know. That's why I want to

932
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,320
get people, you know, over to thorn scrub to like

933
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,719
study and sequence you know, soil fungi and bacteria. But

934
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,360
you know, there's it's just it's learning. It's a whole

935
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,079
different set of rules from you know, like the Eastern

936
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:36,360
Seaboard or like the temperate, temperate Midwest, the temperate latitudes

937
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,400
of North America. Like it's just different. And people in Tucson,

938
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,039
it seems like, have been doing this for a good

939
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,599
thirty forty years, Like they're really figuring it out how

940
00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:49,519
to garden in a desert and compost and grow natives

941
00:42:49,519 --> 00:42:52,320
and like make the landscape thrive down here in South Texas.

942
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,639
You know, the culture here is so isolated and alienated

943
00:42:55,639 --> 00:42:57,360
from the land. They're still trying to pretend they're in

944
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,760
fucking you know, grow They're trying to like grow the

945
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:04,400
land landscapes of Maryland or Ohio, uh, down here in

946
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,320
South Texas. And so it's but I think people can

947
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,280
figure it out. I mean, you just gotta. Yeah, man,

948
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:15,039
it's just a different, different suite of tools and strategies

949
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:19,000
that you need. So yeah, like I figured that out earlier.

950
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,159
I was like, oh, just get some worms for the compost,

951
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,559
and it was like, man, it's too fucking insanely hot

952
00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:23,800
in there.

953
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 3: They all die.

954
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then I was like and then the Soldier

955
00:43:27,199 --> 00:43:29,280
flies just shot up, showed up, and I was like,

956
00:43:29,679 --> 00:43:33,079
what are these giant fucking fly larva in here? And

957
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:35,639
then I saw a soldier flyes like, oh shit, that's

958
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,760
I you know, I identified it on I NAD. I

959
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,079
put it on IADS. It's a soldier fly and it

960
00:43:40,199 --> 00:43:42,360
mentioned on there that their larva are used for composts.

961
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:43,920
And I put two and two together, like, oh, that's

962
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,159
what just showed up naturally. Holy shit, how do I

963
00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:47,679
get more of these? You know? How do I get

964
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:53,239
more soldier flies to fucking show up in the compost?

965
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,199
The hash? But yeah, the tumblers are fucking me up,

966
00:43:55,199 --> 00:43:57,480
man there too. I need to errate them, and I

967
00:43:57,559 --> 00:43:59,320
might even just stop using them, or I think you

968
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,119
just have to keep a like half full so they

969
00:44:01,159 --> 00:44:04,159
can actually tumble. You know. But if it's getting you wet,

970
00:44:04,199 --> 00:44:07,840
what would you recommend like just letting it.

971
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 2: If you're getting to yeah, letting it dry out and

972
00:44:10,039 --> 00:44:13,159
then adding more browns, adding more coarse browns to it,

973
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,800
more of your kind of like yeah, yeah, more of

974
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,639
your chips kind of like woody, you know, stuff to it,

975
00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:20,360
and then they'll help break it up.

976
00:44:20,599 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: What about the stuff out of the topic of Yeah,

977
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:25,599
go ahead on the.

978
00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:28,199
Speaker 2: Topic of like those like organisms showing up, because everybody

979
00:44:28,199 --> 00:44:30,320
like that does. Composts are starting comblets are like, oh,

980
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,880
I got to get like some red wigglers from someplace,

981
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:35,440
or like, you know, I gotta buy some soldier flies.

982
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:36,599
Speaker 3: Like no, no, you don't.

983
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: Just make the habitat and whatever lives in your environment

984
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:45,079
anyway will show up for it, you know, Like I'd

985
00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:47,400
never added worms to mine I never added soldier flies,

986
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,119
but they're all they're all there now, and they come

987
00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:51,159
with different seasons, you know, And that's what you want.

988
00:44:51,159 --> 00:44:54,639
You want to make this little robust ecosystem of whoever's

989
00:44:54,679 --> 00:44:56,199
already around you.

990
00:44:56,199 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: You know.

991
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,119
Speaker 2: It's like the whole like Shield of Dreams Kevin Costner bullshit,

992
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,000
Like if you build it, they'll come. It's like the

993
00:45:01,039 --> 00:45:03,239
same thing with the compost, Like it's not going to

994
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,480
happen overnight, you know, so just you know, put a

995
00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:09,320
year in on it and then start watching what happens

996
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,920
around your compost and you'll see things show up, like

997
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,800
I've got the souldier flies, but they only show up

998
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,280
for the summer season it's hot.

999
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:18,280
Speaker 1: But they're still around.

1000
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, only when it's hot.

1001
00:45:19,679 --> 00:45:22,039
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's actually perfect because I'll get so many

1002
00:45:22,119 --> 00:45:24,400
of them in there that that's a protein from my chicken.

1003
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,639
So I'll just open the top on the compost, let

1004
00:45:26,639 --> 00:45:29,239
the chickens out. They'll go in there dig for soldier

1005
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,679
fly larvae. At the same time they'll airrate my stack

1006
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,559
by digging, you know. And so it's oh.

1007
00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:38,079
Speaker 1: The chickens go in there, and oh that's nice, man,

1008
00:45:38,119 --> 00:45:41,840
But don't they fuck up other plants though too, you.

1009
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 2: Know what they're I've kind of probe because the chickens

1010
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,440
are easy to program, per se, So when I release

1011
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,320
them from their pin, they'll just follow me all the

1012
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,320
way through the yard to the compost and then jump

1013
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,400
up and get in the compost, pop the top.

1014
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: Where does the rabbit come into all of this? You

1015
00:45:55,559 --> 00:45:57,960
got a rabbit that you found somewhere too, right, like

1016
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:58,480
that one of.

1017
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 3: Those Yeah, yeah, this guy was this crib.

1018
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: He he looks like an anime cartoon or a Pokemon

1019
00:46:06,039 --> 00:46:09,599
or something. He's not a normal rabbit. He's a cultivar rabbit.

1020
00:46:10,639 --> 00:46:13,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this weird like lion's main cultivar, and he's

1021
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:16,199
a double mutant and that usually they have just like

1022
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,239
one big poof of hair behind their heads.

1023
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,039
Speaker 3: They kind of look like I guess a lion per se.

1024
00:46:20,599 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 2: This guy's got two mutations, so he's got that, and

1025
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,800
then his whole body has this giant furry skirt and

1026
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:27,960
he's in a flat face. So he, like he said,

1027
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,440
he looks like an anime character. And he was breaking

1028
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,400
into our yard four years ago to eat our cherry leaves,

1029
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:34,840
and I thought he was just a weird looking cat.

1030
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,159
Because I kept seeing this thing at night, and then

1031
00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:39,159
I finally caught it and I was like, oh jeezure's

1032
00:46:39,199 --> 00:46:42,679
somebody's weird pet rabbit. And then nobody, nobody the neighbor

1033
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,400
claimed him, and my wife was like, oh, it's too cute.

1034
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 3: We got to keep him. I'm like, ah, shit, all right.

1035
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: It was just loose, but you found his ass. He

1036
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,079
just showed up.

1037
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And after like a couple of years later, we

1038
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,760
found out that there was somebody in the neighborhood who's

1039
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,199
had a giant, fair whole rabbit colony in their backyard

1040
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,239
and they were gainst their starved and most of them died,

1041
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,599
and this guy somehow escaped damn, and then have just

1042
00:47:05,599 --> 00:47:07,519
been living in the neighborhood for I don't know how long.

1043
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:13,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's yeah, yeah he does.

1044
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's still he's still around. The wife's wife brought

1045
00:47:18,079 --> 00:47:20,199
him inside, so he gets he has he has a wife.

1046
00:47:20,199 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: Now.

1047
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,079
Speaker 2: My wife's like, well he needs a partner. I'm like,

1048
00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:26,239
I guess. So he now is inside, but he's like, dude,

1049
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,559
he's better train than their dog. I open up the

1050
00:47:28,599 --> 00:47:30,159
door and I'm like, hey, mice, he's you will go outside.

1051
00:47:30,159 --> 00:47:33,360
He'll run outside, goes does his thing like eat some ship,

1052
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:36,039
terrorize the chickens, and then he'll come back to the

1053
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:37,599
door and be like, hey, I'm done, ready to come

1054
00:47:37,639 --> 00:47:37,960
back in.

1055
00:47:38,159 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 1: He doesn't ship in the house.

1056
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 3: We got a little like box that he'll like jump

1057
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:44,079
up on.

1058
00:47:44,159 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: Ship in the house.

1059
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,119
Speaker 1: Just pellets though, man, So it's not it's not like

1060
00:47:47,199 --> 00:47:49,039
dog shit or anything that's not that's.

1061
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 3: It's not dog shit. And the rabbit.

1062
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: The rabbit pelts are great because they're not hot and

1063
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,360
so you can you could actually use them just straight

1064
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,760
in your garden. I'm like, you know, my chicken ship

1065
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,000
I got of put through the compost.

1066
00:48:01,679 --> 00:48:08,199
Speaker 1: So the carbon yeah, it's just broken down. Yep.

1067
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 2: And it's great too because has been a fungus guy.

1068
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,480
There's a lot of fun guy that right live undung

1069
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,280
and so I've been using mister mices to we're trying

1070
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,599
to find what plant and we think it's a rush

1071
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:26,400
up in Mendocino County produces this crazy xylariaceous fungus that

1072
00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:28,719
is just out of this world. I mean it looks

1073
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,960
like it looks like something from like a b horror movie.

1074
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,280
And so I've been up in Mendocino and these bogs

1075
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,559
harvesting plants up there, and then I'll just feed them

1076
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:39,000
to mister Mice's and then cultivate his poop to see

1077
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,159
if I can cultivate this fungus because we think it's

1078
00:48:41,199 --> 00:48:42,119
probably an indo fight.

1079
00:48:42,519 --> 00:48:47,119
Speaker 1: Oh wow, So it lives inside the plant non pathologically,

1080
00:48:47,159 --> 00:48:50,440
like not harming it, and then just the right and

1081
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:51,559
then fruits and the shit.

1082
00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1083
00:48:53,519 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so people are familiar indo fights are these fun

1084
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,000
guy that live inside plant tissue, and the plant basically

1085
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,519
gives me a home and the fun it's usually what

1086
00:49:00,559 --> 00:49:02,280
it's doing is it's get in a place to live

1087
00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:05,320
in a place where it's rent by keeping other fun

1088
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,400
guy from invading it and bacteria. So lnies are producing

1089
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:13,400
really interesting secondary metabolites compounds that can kill bacteria or

1090
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,639
kill their fung guy, and so some of these end

1091
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:20,639
up being like blockbuster drugs. Like Taxol is a compound

1092
00:49:20,679 --> 00:49:24,599
that's used in cancer treatments. It basically stops your microtubules

1093
00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:28,920
from polymerizing. And it was originally found in the yew tree,

1094
00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:31,639
and people forever thought it was the yew tree, and

1095
00:49:31,679 --> 00:49:33,360
they're like, oh damn, how are we going to make

1096
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,000
enough of these yew trees to make a drug out

1097
00:49:36,039 --> 00:49:37,920
of it, and somebody realized, like, oh, it's the fungus.

1098
00:49:38,039 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: Cool, we came from a little fungus. It didn't come

1099
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,880
from I mean, it was in Texas, but it was

1100
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:47,280
only in Texas because of an endo fight. Yep, God damn,

1101
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,440
I had no idea. That's wild.

1102
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,159
Speaker 2: And I guarantee you a lot of compounds that we

1103
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,960
thought were planting were from the plant originally, and we're

1104
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,920
going to realize they're actually the indefit a fun guy,

1105
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,159
especially when you look at alkaloids like my like my

1106
00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:04,159
little pet, my little pet. Ideas that a lot of

1107
00:50:04,159 --> 00:50:06,960
these alcoholis that people really enjoy from plants might actually

1108
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:08,280
be fantasytic sung guy.

1109
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,119
Speaker 1: Jesus, like mescaline and Trico Serious, which you've You've got

1110
00:50:12,159 --> 00:50:14,960
an amazing Tricho Serious collection, by the way, right, which

1111
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,000
you frequently fertilized with urine.

1112
00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:21,119
Speaker 2: Oh man, Yeah, urine is the way they go, big.

1113
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: Proponent of piss fertilizer, which you know some of the squares,

1114
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,199
especially Texas is full of squids, might be vibed out

1115
00:50:27,199 --> 00:50:29,239
by that. I think that's I piss on all the plants.

1116
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,119
You just gotta mix it with water a little bit.

1117
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just mixed with wild but I usually go

1118
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,840
one to ten, one to twenty right the right of

1119
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,679
the water and can't and then just do everything in

1120
00:50:37,679 --> 00:50:41,719
the yard. You know, everything loves urine. Everything. Yeah, the

1121
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,440
beauty is like you know, it's it's something you're just

1122
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,119
throwing away and you're going to the storm and buying fertilizer.

1123
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: I never I don't like pissing inside, and then you

1124
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,800
waste you weigh first off, if you don't flush, which

1125
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,199
you shouldn't flush piss because it's a fucking waste of water,

1126
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:57,239
especially in a droughtstress to way, and then when you

1127
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,480
leave it in the toilet, it starts stinking. And so

1128
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,239
I I prefer pissing outside all its way, it's way

1129
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:04,119
more enjoyable.

1130
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,159
Speaker 2: So well, the reason I actually started doing this was

1131
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,000
due to we had this harmful alga bloom events in

1132
00:51:10,039 --> 00:51:12,800
the summer twenty twenty two in the San Francisco Bay

1133
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,480
where we had I mean just fish dying everywhere in

1134
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,480
the sf BA, like we we almost killed all our

1135
00:51:18,519 --> 00:51:22,199
sturgeon and this was due to a giant algae bloom

1136
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,239
due to our nitrogen levels in the SFA are crazy.

1137
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,119
They're higher than the Chesapeake, you know, and so I

1138
00:51:28,159 --> 00:51:30,280
was like looking around, I was like like, how do

1139
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,000
we how do we stop you know, some of this

1140
00:51:32,079 --> 00:51:34,000
or how do I stop this? And it's like, well,

1141
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,320
my own property, I could take fifty percent of my

1142
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,039
nitrogen that's coming out of me and piss and just

1143
00:51:39,079 --> 00:51:40,960
not put it into the system that's going to be

1144
00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:44,039
ultimately dumping into the bay, which is your local you know,

1145
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:48,199
municipality that handles your wastewater. And if you can put

1146
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,320
it right on the ground into your plants, you've just

1147
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:51,519
trapped all that nitrogen.

1148
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 3: You know, it's most of.

1149
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,599
Speaker 1: The nitrogen that was polluting the bay. I mean, do

1150
00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:56,920
you think it's from sewage or is it some other

1151
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:58,360
source or where is it?

1152
00:51:58,440 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1153
00:51:59,159 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's man from It's mainly from wastewater facilities. So

1154
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,880
the SFA has thirty seven wastewater facility plants that more

1155
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,199
or less dump you know, their processed sewage into the

1156
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,360
San Francisco Bay. And people have looked at you know,

1157
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,239
that versus nitrogen coming from you know, the Central Valley

1158
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,679
coming through the rivers into the bay. And now it's

1159
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,559
the It is definitely the wastewater that's the main carrier.

1160
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,559
Speaker 1: So what does process sewage? It just means it's been

1161
00:52:24,599 --> 00:52:29,000
decontaminated for most of the you know, harmful bacteria, but

1162
00:52:29,039 --> 00:52:31,079
there's still a shit ton of nitrogen in there or what.

1163
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 2: Yep yep, and you can and you could and you

1164
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,000
could transform the nitrogen. There's like more modern plants. So

1165
00:52:39,039 --> 00:52:42,039
actually South Ay down by San Jose they did this,

1166
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:44,840
I think in the eighties or nineties. They updated their plants,

1167
00:52:45,039 --> 00:52:47,800
so I forget if it's nitrade for which one they're

1168
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:49,760
putting out. They're putting in a different form of nitrogen

1169
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,840
by doing another additional couple steps, and in that way,

1170
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,119
the algae doesn't have as quick access to it, but

1171
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:59,559
most plants in America, because we're horrible building infrastructure anymore.

1172
00:53:00,039 --> 00:53:01,079
Don't get me started on that.

1173
00:53:01,079 --> 00:53:05,679
Speaker 1: I should all be private industry, private private industry. And

1174
00:53:05,679 --> 00:53:07,920
then you get a fucking middleman involved is going to

1175
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,280
start fleecing the government that you know, it's yeah, it's

1176
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,960
part of the did all this. It's like the Republican

1177
00:53:14,039 --> 00:53:17,960
fucking way of doing everything's private and then it's more

1178
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,280
costly and more inefficient, right.

1179
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, but basically, like you could be doing this the

1180
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,760
right way where you're not putting out these nitrogen compounds

1181
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:27,519
that are really accessible to algae.

1182
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:28,760
Speaker 3: But most places.

1183
00:53:28,519 --> 00:53:30,639
Speaker 2: Aren't doing that in the United States, and so you

1184
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,239
have these huge ballooms that can take place. And to

1185
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,719
be honest, to even be better about this, we should

1186
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,840
just find a way to retrap that nitrogen and then

1187
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,519
use it as fertilizers. You know, every gets grossed out

1188
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:43,039
by that, and it's like, you know, what, this is

1189
00:53:43,079 --> 00:53:46,480
what's going on in your environment every day. Were shouldn't

1190
00:53:46,519 --> 00:53:48,480
just going from all these other organisms, it's going into

1191
00:53:48,519 --> 00:53:51,079
other organized Italian ecosystem work.

1192
00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: Italian grandfathers have been watering their basilin tomato plants with

1193
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:59,800
pists for centuries. Seriously, Yeah, it's fucking yeah, it's it's pretty.

1194
00:54:00,039 --> 00:54:02,960
So let's move on to a more controversial topic now, Daman.

1195
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,480
Let's talk about shit composting, which I first became exposed

1196
00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:10,719
to in northern California at a friend's land project where

1197
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:12,599
they didn't have you know, they had a lot of

1198
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:15,679
people coming through there, you know, both to volunteer and

1199
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,639
do work, and so there was a lot of massive

1200
00:54:17,639 --> 00:54:21,039
amounts of shit and it would have destroyed the plumbing.

1201
00:54:21,079 --> 00:54:22,920
I mean that toilet would be flushing. They had like

1202
00:54:23,079 --> 00:54:25,159
two or three toilets, they would have been fucking wrecked.

1203
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,760
So they got a five gallon barrel, built an out house,

1204
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,280
and then people would shit in the five gallon barrel,

1205
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:34,519
cover it with a scoop of sawdust, pine shavings, whatever,

1206
00:54:35,079 --> 00:54:37,440
and then they'd put those out in the sun, which

1207
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,039
I don't know how much sense that make, but it

1208
00:54:39,039 --> 00:54:41,840
would certainly get hot and then you know, after a

1209
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:43,920
couple of years they'd be ready. But it doesn't take

1210
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,599
a couple of years to make it safe to actually

1211
00:54:46,639 --> 00:54:48,079
just dump on plants. I mean, you don't want to

1212
00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:50,440
put on veggies, of course. But how does this shit

1213
00:54:50,519 --> 00:54:54,039
composting work? Do you know of any stable and reliable

1214
00:54:54,119 --> 00:54:56,119
shit composters around you or what?

1215
00:54:57,519 --> 00:54:57,679
Speaker 3: Oh?

1216
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:02,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know quite a few. The way that works is,

1217
00:55:02,639 --> 00:55:05,480
I mean, it's very simple, simple, you know. It's it's

1218
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,519
similar to other composts. And we were just trying to

1219
00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:10,079
take a material and get it hot enough to get

1220
00:55:10,159 --> 00:55:12,800
rid of the stuff that you don't want anymore, which

1221
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,239
is going to be things like pathogenic bacteria and some

1222
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,320
of the viruses and some of the viruses that could

1223
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,639
also be in that pequal matter, and so I mean

1224
00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:24,679
you're basically and that's the reason why they're mixing in

1225
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,320
the pine shavings there, right, that's gonna be one of

1226
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,320
those browns. It's going to help that get really hot

1227
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:31,000
in the compost.

1228
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: The nitrogen, yeah, the ship is the green, the nitrogen

1229
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,480
and pine shavings are the carbon the brown yep.

1230
00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 2: And then and the reason that people are usually saying

1231
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,760
to let you know, go for so long is that

1232
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,239
you're just going to increase the chance, right that everything

1233
00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:52,400
has expired at that point, the bacteria and the viruses

1234
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,039
have turned over at that point, and so that's why

1235
00:55:55,079 --> 00:55:57,440
you have these really long time scales. But like most

1236
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,599
people I know they're doing human manure, I think are

1237
00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:03,360
kind of doing it most like a year cycle on it.

1238
00:56:03,679 --> 00:56:06,639
Speaker 1: That's it. After a year, it's it's safe if you've

1239
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,320
got it to the right temperature. And so what temperature

1240
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:10,960
do you want it at? So it's and also it's

1241
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,920
not just the process of the virus and bacteria getting cooked.

1242
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,360
It's a it's a process of them just expiring as

1243
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,559
well or getting eaten by microbes.

1244
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,760
Speaker 2: Right right, and and also them kind of getting you know,

1245
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,119
exposed to oxygen, right oxygen. So what's gonna, you know,

1246
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,000
slowly kind of break everybody down in the long run.

1247
00:56:29,679 --> 00:56:32,920
And so that's why that time, that time is also important.

1248
00:56:33,599 --> 00:56:35,719
I don't have the temperatures off the top of my

1249
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,559
head just because I'm not human manureing at my place yet.

1250
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,639
It's the wife wouldn't be too happy about that, but

1251
00:56:41,679 --> 00:56:42,760
one day in my.

1252
00:56:42,679 --> 00:56:46,760
Speaker 1: Grip probably would. I think it's illegal in most places too, Like,

1253
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:47,519
if you're going to mean.

1254
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:47,679
Speaker 2: It's a.

1255
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:50,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.

1256
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,079
Speaker 2: It is illegal in most places, So it's kind of

1257
00:56:52,079 --> 00:56:56,280
you gotta be a hushushed about it.

1258
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:02,159
Speaker 3: Gorilla ship. Yeah, you gotta understand that from a city

1259
00:57:02,199 --> 00:57:02,880
point of view.

1260
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 2: Right, Like the whole reason we have modern septic systems

1261
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,480
is you so you don't have like, you know, collar

1262
00:57:08,519 --> 00:57:11,159
outbreaks turn the centry.

1263
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could get out of control so easily, it could.

1264
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,559
You know, you've seen how how people how dumb and

1265
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:22,960
just not not even dumb, that's rude, How just not

1266
00:57:23,599 --> 00:57:26,679
on top of things people can be and you let, yeah,

1267
00:57:26,719 --> 00:57:29,320
that sounds like a horrible you know, it's only only

1268
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,079
for the eclectic hippies who really fixate on doing it

1269
00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:32,880
right right.

1270
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And and and have a you know, long

1271
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,039
term attention to stuffing, Like, you know, I'm really all

1272
00:57:39,239 --> 00:57:41,960
relatively attentive guy, but I'll still go out and find

1273
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,800
plants in my yard that are dead because I forgot

1274
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,400
to water them, right, stuff like that.

1275
00:57:45,679 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 3: I just imagine.

1276
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 2: Now that's a can of ship and right, you let

1277
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,679
a fifty five gallon vadas ship get out of control,

1278
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:54,840
you're or you know, you don't pay attention to it

1279
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:55,639
for a couple of weeks.

1280
00:57:55,679 --> 00:57:58,239
Speaker 1: Now you've got a color outbreak, right, So.

1281
00:57:58,400 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you can't just go out and now be like,

1282
00:58:00,039 --> 00:58:01,920
oh I screwed up, going to slide that into the

1283
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,079
trash can. No, like somebody's gonna notice. It's not going

1284
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:07,000
well for anybody. So the orac you're going to go

1285
00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:09,639
down that road, you really want to put your put

1286
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:11,800
the time in, get the investment down, and then get

1287
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,239
a protocol in place so that it's like a you know,

1288
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:15,840
it's a time behavior thing.

1289
00:58:16,159 --> 00:58:19,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the oracle here says maintaining temperatures above one

1290
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,079
hundred and twenty two degrees fairreheit, which is actually kind

1291
00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:24,400
of low, like you'd think it would need to be one.

1292
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,119
Speaker 2: I mean I'm trying to Yeah, I'm trying to get

1293
00:58:27,199 --> 00:58:28,800
like up to like one thirty to make sure all

1294
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,360
my you know, seeds are dead in a compost, you know.

1295
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, that's what my tower is at. It's

1296
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,719
at one forty. So how would you and you can

1297
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,039
feel it on the sides of this this compost tower,

1298
00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:40,760
So how would you if you got someone who's compost

1299
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,239
is not getting hot. We're not talking about human organ

1300
00:58:43,559 --> 00:58:47,559
commo's not getting hot. How what would you? I guess

1301
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,280
then you have to start thinking, well, what ratio is off?

1302
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,559
Is it carbon or nitrogen? And what do I need

1303
00:58:52,599 --> 00:58:54,079
to what do I need to get in there?

1304
00:58:55,199 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 2: Well, carbon nitrogen and then also moisture content, right, because

1305
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,360
there's lot some people that are like my, my, my

1306
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,000
pile's cool, and I'll go over and I'll look at it.

1307
00:59:03,079 --> 00:59:07,320
I'm like, well, it's also like, you know, barely drier

1308
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:11,519
than a bucket of water. And at that point you're like,

1309
00:59:11,559 --> 00:59:13,360
you want to you want to let this dry out,

1310
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,320
like air rate at first, because a lot of moisture

1311
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,239
is going to cause it to get more anaerobic. You

1312
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,239
want to air rate it, let it dry out, and

1313
00:59:19,239 --> 00:59:20,599
then let's see where you're at in a week or

1314
00:59:20,639 --> 00:59:23,679
two a lot of places, though I talk to people,

1315
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,800
what I realized is they've just got too much food

1316
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,320
straps going in there compared to browns, compared to carbon.

1317
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,559
So a lot of times for the wa it's like, hey,

1318
00:59:33,639 --> 00:59:35,800
my compass heat doesn't getting hot. We I'll tell them

1319
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,440
is add more browns and mix it and then let's

1320
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,119
talk in three days. And if it hasn't gone up,

1321
00:59:42,679 --> 00:59:45,639
then let's look at your moisture content and kind of

1322
00:59:45,679 --> 00:59:48,000
go from there. What's the most use I find it

1323
00:59:48,159 --> 00:59:51,480
most for most people, they're not enough carbons.

1324
00:59:51,079 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: For moisture content. What is the most what's the most

1325
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,360
common problem? Too dryer, to wet, too wet?

1326
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,239
Speaker 3: Right, too wet? Too wet?

1327
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, people, Well, and it tends on your habit, right,

1328
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,519
too wet in most most places on the West coast.

1329
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:04,559
Might talk to people, but I can imagine you know

1330
01:00:04,639 --> 01:00:06,960
a place like you or like Tucson, like it might

1331
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,880
just be that dries out really quick, you know, And

1332
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,039
so in that case, you might be wanting to add

1333
01:00:12,079 --> 01:00:16,840
water more frequently, or maybe jacket your compost heap a

1334
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,360
little bit so it doesn't lose moisture as fast.

1335
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: So the if it's too wet, then what you got

1336
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:25,880
to do is basically stir it up, get airflow in

1337
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,199
there and take the lid off. Maybe you know, just

1338
01:00:29,239 --> 01:00:34,199
get airflow and ambient uh, you know, atmospheric humidity to

1339
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,920
kind of pull the moisture out of it, or maybe

1340
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:39,840
even take some of the composts out and put it

1341
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:43,079
in its own separate bucket so that it dries quicker,

1342
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:44,920
because you know, a large volume is going to take

1343
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,840
longer to dry than a smaller volume. Yeah.

1344
01:00:49,039 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 2: Or other thing you could do if you're if you're

1345
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,559
already burning stuff on your property is grind up any

1346
01:00:53,639 --> 01:00:56,519
char you have and throw it in there and that'll sucked.

1347
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 3: Out a lot of water.

1348
01:00:57,719 --> 01:00:59,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you can kind of then you can

1349
01:00:59,639 --> 01:01:02,840
kind of get the little with the biochar world. So biochar,

1350
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,079
for those of you are uninitiated, is kind of this

1351
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:12,800
idea of taking pyalzed plant life and then basically adding.

1352
01:01:12,559 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 3: Nutrients to it and then adding us to your soil.

1353
01:01:14,519 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 2: So this kind of comes out of people discovering the

1354
01:01:17,639 --> 01:01:21,159
terra preta in the Amazon, which are these black soils,

1355
01:01:21,199 --> 01:01:23,400
and if you know anything about the Amazon, soils are

1356
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,559
actually kind of shitty, except for like rivul of plants

1357
01:01:25,599 --> 01:01:27,480
are right, because they've built up all this layer. But

1358
01:01:27,639 --> 01:01:29,199
these places where humans have been for a while, they

1359
01:01:29,199 --> 01:01:32,320
could dig down there are just like this, like soft, loamy,

1360
01:01:32,519 --> 01:01:35,400
black soil. And what they realize is people have been

1361
01:01:35,559 --> 01:01:38,880
burning stuff and then adding you know, they're probably their

1362
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:40,840
own human manure and stuff like that in there, and

1363
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,960
they just got these really dynamic, long lasting soils. And

1364
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,199
so there's been this fascination over the last couple of

1365
01:01:46,239 --> 01:01:50,199
decades about how could contemporary humans make these type of

1366
01:01:50,199 --> 01:01:53,119
soils again. So the general idea is you take wood

1367
01:01:53,199 --> 01:01:55,039
or something like that, you heat it really high, like

1368
01:01:55,079 --> 01:01:56,760
you're almost burning it. You try and do it in

1369
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,599
a relatively low auxygen environment, so you get the charcoal

1370
01:01:59,639 --> 01:02:03,159
stuff at the end. And then you would take this

1371
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,760
charcoal and then blend it with a bunch of like

1372
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:10,079
nitrogen or like you know, nutrients and then add that

1373
01:02:10,119 --> 01:02:11,280
to the soil.

1374
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: But the biochar will suck the nitrogen out of things.

1375
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,039
I mean, so like you A way to do it

1376
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:19,480
is get like one of those those god they're so overpriced,

1377
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:23,360
those fucking stoves that the smokeless stoves. You know, you

1378
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:25,880
can get backyard stoves. A friend of mine uses.

1379
01:02:26,199 --> 01:02:28,159
Speaker 2: Looks like the inside of a washing machine.

1380
01:02:28,239 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, like yeah, yeah, my friend of mine used to

1381
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:32,119
use one of those, the old inside of a washing machine.

1382
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,480
Heat the ship up and then before right when it

1383
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:38,119
starts turning to the white ash right and it's it's

1384
01:02:38,159 --> 01:02:41,760
like settling down. Then you douse water on it and

1385
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:43,800
then chop it up with a shovel if you can,

1386
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:47,800
because smaller I think smaller size is better generally, right right,

1387
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:48,760
like marble.

1388
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 2: Size depend on the plants you're trying to grow. So

1389
01:02:51,559 --> 01:02:53,719
people that are trying to grow like veggies and stuff,

1390
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:59,360
they want to get as much access to basically the

1391
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,360
biocharts possible in the soil, so they'll grind it relatively small,

1392
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,519
I mean, like fine almost dust size.

1393
01:03:04,239 --> 01:03:06,599
Speaker 1: But you're not using like lake gas logs.

1394
01:03:07,159 --> 01:03:09,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, using big ass logs in there.

1395
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,519
Speaker 2: But like me, for like at least like the trichoserius

1396
01:03:11,559 --> 01:03:13,800
I grow, I actually want it kind of chunky. So

1397
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:16,800
I'm like breaking it down to you know, maybe about

1398
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,360
stuff the size of like a dime or so, and

1399
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,719
then using that as as my soil mix because it

1400
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,760
keeps it really airy for those for those roots that

1401
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:25,320
don't like to.

1402
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 3: Have a lot of That was how I first learned application.

1403
01:03:28,559 --> 01:03:30,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how I first learned about my my buddy

1404
01:03:30,599 --> 01:03:34,519
Jeremy that runs Bona Terra Nursery and where it was Maryland.

1405
01:03:34,599 --> 01:03:38,039
I think, cool guy, he's like a Hessian with this

1406
01:03:38,119 --> 01:03:41,000
long ass beard and fucking listens to the metal and

1407
01:03:41,079 --> 01:03:43,960
just dozen native plants. But he was, uh, he was

1408
01:03:44,039 --> 01:03:46,719
using it as a soil amendment, like for potting soil

1409
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,800
in lieu of pearlite, and so I tried doing that too,

1410
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,440
but yeah, it just it was it took all my

1411
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,480
plants that I grew in that I didn't I didn't

1412
01:03:54,519 --> 01:03:57,320
buffe it up with nitrogen that bunch enough. So all

1413
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,480
the plants I grew and it started getting chlorotic and

1414
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,559
so I had to repot or I just used too

1415
01:04:02,599 --> 01:04:05,079
much of it, or maybe it wasn't the right size either.

1416
01:04:05,079 --> 01:04:06,840
I didn't chop it up enough. So but that's why,

1417
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:08,960
what's your solution to that? Piss? Right?

1418
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:12,239
Speaker 2: Piss? Pissing a bucket? So I take my I got

1419
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:15,960
kind of like a knockoff solo stove smokeless you know

1420
01:04:16,039 --> 01:04:18,840
thing I got flicked like eighty bucks. And what I'll

1421
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:20,960
do is I'll get that chart and I'll just move

1422
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,599
it into five gallon buckets. You know, I'll quench it

1423
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:25,639
with water. As soon as that fire starts to like

1424
01:04:26,159 --> 01:04:28,719
damper down, I'm seeing little bit of ashirmation, I'll just

1425
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:33,159
soak that whole thing water, move that to buckets, and

1426
01:04:33,199 --> 01:04:35,960
then just basically just pissing those buckets until.

1427
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 1: He's blowing the minds of the squares. He's he's he's

1428
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:43,159
traumatizing a square community, right, this is you gotta remember

1429
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:46,119
I'm in I'm in text. It's different here, so people

1430
01:04:46,159 --> 01:04:49,039
are not used to, you know, having a lab of

1431
01:04:49,239 --> 01:04:51,960
piss buckets, but they need to get on that, right.

1432
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,679
Texas needs to loosen the fuck up and get start

1433
01:04:54,719 --> 01:04:57,079
pissling in buckets. That's some more level. If you take

1434
01:04:57,119 --> 01:04:59,239
one thing with this podcast, start pissing in the buckets

1435
01:04:59,239 --> 01:04:59,960
in your backyard.

1436
01:05:02,159 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 2: And the beauty about this is is like because of

1437
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:09,920
that the structure of that carbon of that charcoal, as

1438
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:12,920
you piss, yeah, nitdrigen just gets bound right up into

1439
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,599
it because that carbonyl honity is really kind of forget

1440
01:05:16,639 --> 01:05:18,880
if it's a negative or a positive surface, but basically

1441
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,599
it'll pull that your area right in and it'll cover

1442
01:05:21,639 --> 01:05:24,679
in the surface, which means they won't start smelling. So

1443
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,320
if you're pissing your bucket and it's like fresh char,

1444
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:29,599
you can go put your head in the bucket and

1445
01:05:29,639 --> 01:05:31,239
take a big whiff, and you're not going to get

1446
01:05:31,239 --> 01:05:33,960
a big, you know, plume of like bum bum scent

1447
01:05:34,039 --> 01:05:36,320
in there. It's gonna be perfectly fine.

1448
01:05:36,679 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1449
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 2: And then as soon as it starts to get really

1450
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:40,760
bummy smelling, right like you come line, you're like, oh,

1451
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:43,360
I can smell some urine in there. That's telling you

1452
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,199
your biochar is close to getting saturated as far as

1453
01:05:46,239 --> 01:05:49,239
the nutrition goes. And at that point, you know, then

1454
01:05:49,239 --> 01:05:51,440
I would take it out and then I'd mix that

1455
01:05:51,559 --> 01:05:54,840
with my soils, because if you don't do that, you

1456
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,039
might have the experience where you had, which is you

1457
01:05:57,239 --> 01:06:00,719
pop that charcoal more or less in your soul and

1458
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:04,039
it grabbed all the nitrogen and other things and then

1459
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,639
causes your plants to starve. But what you want to

1460
01:06:06,679 --> 01:06:11,280
do is make it a resource for nutrition. And so

1461
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,519
if you fill a bucket with urine with that with

1462
01:06:13,639 --> 01:06:16,480
that charcoal, you'll have that so when it's in the soil,

1463
01:06:16,639 --> 01:06:19,559
the plant roots will go over to that, to that

1464
01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:22,559
biochar and then be able to pull the nitrogen back

1465
01:06:22,639 --> 01:06:24,360
off of it. And also the weird thing about the

1466
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:26,039
biotart that I realized, and this is why I really

1467
01:06:26,039 --> 01:06:29,320
love it for the cat die, is that it will

1468
01:06:29,719 --> 01:06:33,320
dry out relatively quick on its surface, like like you know,

1469
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:35,679
say I've got my dime sized nugget in there, but

1470
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,639
inside that nugget it'll still hold a little bit of moisture.

1471
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,800
And so my plants never like have the chance to

1472
01:06:42,079 --> 01:06:45,199
get you know, completely dried out, you know, which is

1473
01:06:45,239 --> 01:06:47,920
bad at the root tip zone. And so some of

1474
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,519
the guys I know that grind their biochar up a

1475
01:06:50,559 --> 01:06:53,599
lot for their seedlings, they'll see this when they pull

1476
01:06:53,679 --> 01:06:57,639
their seed wings out. The roots are just covered in

1477
01:06:57,719 --> 01:07:01,159
the biochar because the seedling roots hairs are going.

1478
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,119
Speaker 3: Into the biotrape probably ministre.

1479
01:07:04,039 --> 01:07:06,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, they're probably penetrating. So

1480
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:09,039
but it would do. Would you use biochar for other plantss?

1481
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:12,159
It mostly good for cacti because most cacti are more

1482
01:07:12,239 --> 01:07:16,519
tolerant of salts and salutes in the soil. Because you

1483
01:07:16,599 --> 01:07:18,480
get a lot of salts and salutes in the desert,

1484
01:07:18,519 --> 01:07:21,599
they've evolved tolerance for it. The habitat is literally selected

1485
01:07:21,639 --> 01:07:24,400
for plants that can tell, like we get like astrophytem

1486
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,639
grows with all these salt tolerant plants here in South

1487
01:07:27,679 --> 01:07:30,559
Texas right in same thing in Chili, you've got more

1488
01:07:30,599 --> 01:07:33,280
evaporation than you've got precipitation, so the water the ground

1489
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:35,079
is going to be really salty. So plants that have

1490
01:07:35,119 --> 01:07:37,480
spent six million years involving there have a lot of

1491
01:07:37,519 --> 01:07:39,639
tolerance of salt, right, so it may not be an

1492
01:07:39,679 --> 01:07:42,000
issue there. Do you think that's I mean, is it

1493
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:43,440
the same for like if we're trying to grow fucking

1494
01:07:43,559 --> 01:07:46,599
kale and in a in a biochart mix or would

1495
01:07:46,639 --> 01:07:48,000
it be Is it different?

1496
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 2: So what I what I've realized is through this process

1497
01:07:52,519 --> 01:07:56,199
of using urines is that it also causes me to

1498
01:07:56,239 --> 01:07:58,599
change my behavior because I have that thought process in

1499
01:07:58,599 --> 01:08:00,599
my mind when I'm going to go take a piss,

1500
01:08:00,679 --> 01:08:02,719
because if I'm like, I just had a big salty

1501
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:05,119
meal last night, that piece is going to go straight

1502
01:08:05,119 --> 01:08:05,800
into compost.

1503
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:07,559
Speaker 3: The reason that's going to go in the compost is

1504
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:08,559
the compost.

1505
01:08:08,119 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 2: Can handle a lot more salt because I'll have all

1506
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,039
of those you know invertebrates, you know, the soldier flies,

1507
01:08:14,119 --> 01:08:16,880
the worms, things like that, coming through there, and they'll

1508
01:08:17,239 --> 01:08:19,479
scavenge out those salts, right because they need them for

1509
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,439
their nervous system. But you know, if i'm if I'm

1510
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:24,920
like eating good, I haven't had a giant ass salty meal.

1511
01:08:25,039 --> 01:08:27,359
That's the stuff I'm going to water directly on my

1512
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,960
plants with, or I'm gonna put in the biochart bucket

1513
01:08:30,239 --> 01:08:32,279
because I know it's gonna have a lower you know,

1514
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:33,359
salt content.

1515
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 3: So it works really well.

1516
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,199
Speaker 2: I feel like for my vegetable garden, you know, as

1517
01:08:39,239 --> 01:08:41,199
long as I think about you know what pisch is

1518
01:08:41,239 --> 01:08:41,760
going where?

1519
01:08:42,039 --> 01:08:42,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.

1520
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 2: Actually it's kind of funny because thinking about wanting to

1521
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:47,560
grow plants is actually going to make you have a

1522
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:51,319
better diet. I didn't really, I didn'tbody attend that when

1523
01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:53,920
I started this this piss experiment in twenty twenty two.

1524
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:54,720
I didn't.

1525
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:55,359
Speaker 3: I didn't think that.

1526
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 2: Like every time I ate, I was like, ah, but

1527
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:58,479
how is this going to affect my ventre?

1528
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:04,239
Speaker 1: More green tea, more water, more you know, juices, less

1529
01:09:04,399 --> 01:09:07,560
nasty high fruit those shit. It's I can't believe people

1530
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:11,239
don't fucking mountain dew and like Coca Cola's so gross

1531
01:09:11,279 --> 01:09:15,760
to me. But but uh, anyway. But yeah, so okay,

1532
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,880
so I wish that there was a way to like

1533
01:09:19,159 --> 01:09:22,359
a grinder, you know, like a grinder for biochary, to

1534
01:09:22,399 --> 01:09:24,840
get it to a smaller really for anything. Because when

1535
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:28,279
I was I was grinding, I was grinding up coffee

1536
01:09:28,279 --> 01:09:29,600
one day and I was thinking, I'm like, man, it

1537
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,079
goes from like a bean to this very small particle

1538
01:09:32,199 --> 01:09:34,199
so easily. This is a great And that's what actually

1539
01:09:34,199 --> 01:09:35,880
made me get the wood chipper because I was like, fuck,

1540
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,239
I've got all this brush. If I could grind this

1541
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:40,159
material up, and the wood chips that I got from

1542
01:09:40,159 --> 01:09:42,279
the Tree Company they were too large because that's a

1543
01:09:42,279 --> 01:09:44,399
big ass wood chipper. So I'm like, this isn't good.

1544
01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:46,279
I need something smaller. And that's why that's when I

1545
01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:48,920
got that little wood chipper and Scamazon for like one

1546
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,840
hundred and twenty bucks. I got your York brand or something.

1547
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:53,560
But they're probably all the same. They probably all come

1548
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:55,880
out of the same factory in China, right, you just

1549
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,960
get like one hundred Yeah, I just get one hundred

1550
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,119
and twenty dollars wood schipper into canzons, So all the same.

1551
01:10:01,399 --> 01:10:05,119
But you know, but uh, and so that fine stuff, Yeah,

1552
01:10:05,159 --> 01:10:07,359
that was great, So I really I and that occurred

1553
01:10:07,359 --> 01:10:09,119
to me because I was thinking about what a coffee

1554
01:10:09,119 --> 01:10:10,920
grinder does. I was like, fuck, we had something like

1555
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,720
that for biochar, because all I do now is chop

1556
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:15,479
it up with a shovel and it takes forever. Man,

1557
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:17,479
someone should invent something like that, you know, like just

1558
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:21,760
the fucking electric plugin grinder for like basically a big

1559
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:24,479
coffee grinder, right, that's like the size of like yeahbcap

1560
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:24,960
or something.

1561
01:10:26,039 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 2: Well, I've seen people that'll take their biochar outher five

1562
01:10:29,039 --> 01:10:31,159
gallon bucket and then feed it through their wood.

1563
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 1: Chipper No shit, really and just kind of yeah.

1564
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:36,079
Speaker 2: I mean you're gonna like sharpen that blade a lot more,

1565
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,560
but you can grind it down that way. Or I'll

1566
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:40,960
see people just move it into like, you know, a

1567
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,479
canvas sack and then just back over it a whole

1568
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:45,760
bunch of times with their vehicle.

1569
01:10:46,119 --> 01:10:48,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it'll work. Yeah.

1570
01:10:48,159 --> 01:10:50,119
Speaker 2: I Mean what I do is like I like to

1571
01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:52,159
stir my biochar, you know, every once in a while

1572
01:10:52,159 --> 01:10:54,000
to make sure that nutrition, make sure that urine is

1573
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,199
getting nice and homogenious in the bucket. So I'll just

1574
01:10:57,239 --> 01:11:00,159
take a big ass branch and then kind of do

1575
01:11:00,239 --> 01:11:03,039
a stamping motion when I'm doing my swirling and so

1576
01:11:03,079 --> 01:11:05,640
by the time it's coming out of my bucket, you know,

1577
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:09,079
about thirty percent of it now is really fine dust

1578
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:11,199
and then the rest of it's kind of that you know,

1579
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:14,800
quarter to dime size stuff, I like the cactus.

1580
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 3: And then we'll do is.

1581
01:11:15,399 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 2: I'll split out the stuff, so the big stuff will

1582
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,159
go towards the cactus, the fine stuff will go towards

1583
01:11:21,159 --> 01:11:22,039
the vegetable beds.

1584
01:11:22,159 --> 01:11:25,239
Speaker 1: It seems like you definitely want smaller particle size though

1585
01:11:25,279 --> 01:11:26,039
with that stuff.

1586
01:11:26,319 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 2: Like that's yeah, because like the more the smaller you are,

1587
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,479
the more surface area you're getting, which means the more

1588
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:36,640
nutrition it can manage, it can move around, and so

1589
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,119
that's why the finds really good for the vegetable gardens.

1590
01:11:40,039 --> 01:11:43,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, for going in general, it's probably good for your soils.

1591
01:11:43,399 --> 01:11:45,319
Speaker 2: Like if you've got stuff you've got just other plants

1592
01:11:45,319 --> 01:11:47,600
and you're not trying to eat or your property, that's

1593
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,159
probably what you want to use too, is that finer stuff.

1594
01:11:50,239 --> 01:11:51,920
And then if you've got something that like a cactus,

1595
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:53,159
then you have the bigger blocks.

1596
01:11:53,239 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: The tri the trikes though, I mean they respond to

1597
01:11:56,159 --> 01:11:59,279
urine really well. They do right, Oh my god, you paid,

1598
01:11:59,319 --> 01:12:01,479
like you know what differences have you done? Like a

1599
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:04,640
control where like trikes that don't get your in same

1600
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:06,640
clone and then trikes that do get pissed.

1601
01:12:08,119 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 2: I've tried doing that with seedlings, but I realized that

1602
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,079
with seedlings there's so much genetic diversity and a batch

1603
01:12:13,119 --> 01:12:15,319
of seedlings, I feel like it's not it hasn't been

1604
01:12:15,319 --> 01:12:17,279
a well controlled experiment. So I really need to do

1605
01:12:17,399 --> 01:12:21,560
is take a single column, cut it into two pieces,

1606
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:24,760
and then use those to run the experiment. But in

1607
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:26,800
general I do see is I mean they can handle

1608
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:30,920
a ton of urine. I mean, in the Trico serious community,

1609
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:34,159
a lot of people will use straight urine at the

1610
01:12:34,199 --> 01:12:36,800
base to try to get them to pup, because like,

1611
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,000
sometimes you don't want to cut your column, its beautiful

1612
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:40,079
and you're like, I'd like to be able to get

1613
01:12:40,119 --> 01:12:42,399
a piece to give to somebody. You know, you basically

1614
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:45,039
piss on the bottom of it. And they, especially if

1615
01:12:45,039 --> 01:12:49,119
it's springtime, they will shoot pups like nobody's business. And

1616
01:12:49,199 --> 01:12:51,560
to be honest, like I'm I always was afraid that

1617
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,359
you could like overdo the urine. And that's why I'd

1618
01:12:54,399 --> 01:12:57,439
never gone straight on a lot of my cactuses. And

1619
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:01,079
that's just this past though. I started just on a

1620
01:13:01,079 --> 01:13:02,520
couple of them, just being like, all right, I don't

1621
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:03,359
care that much about you.

1622
01:13:03,359 --> 01:13:04,520
Speaker 3: You're just gonna get straight piss.

1623
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:07,560
Speaker 2: Holy crap, The columns on the top just swoll up,

1624
01:13:08,359 --> 01:13:10,119
like I can look at my column be like, oh yeah,

1625
01:13:10,159 --> 01:13:12,319
that's why I just started giving it straight piss.

1626
01:13:13,039 --> 01:13:17,119
Speaker 1: So why is the piss so full of nitrogen? Because

1627
01:13:17,159 --> 01:13:19,520
it basically everything we eat is carbon and nitrogen.

1628
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so as your proteins break down your way,

1629
01:13:24,279 --> 01:13:26,920
your body gets rid of it ultimately turns into urea,

1630
01:13:27,239 --> 01:13:31,079
and so you know urea that's really nice nitrogen containing

1631
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:35,079
compound is what a lot of your urine is. It's

1632
01:13:35,119 --> 01:13:37,880
the breakdown products from proteins in your body.

1633
01:13:39,119 --> 01:13:39,600
Speaker 3: Proteins.

1634
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 2: I know people wanted to hear proteins. Yeah, and people

1635
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:47,079
want to hear proteins. I know, Like there's this it's uh,

1636
01:13:47,399 --> 01:13:50,239
as a biologist and as somebody that hears like health stuff,

1637
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:54,239
we're talking almost two different things. So proteins are basically

1638
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:57,079
almost everything of you that you can touch right now

1639
01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:01,039
is basically protein and water and your protein, like the

1640
01:14:01,079 --> 01:14:04,399
health world, they're talking about you know, just a subset

1641
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:07,039
of these proteins that you know are important for like

1642
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:13,239
animal growth. But basically any cillilar process you have in

1643
01:14:13,279 --> 01:14:15,520
your body is going to be involving proteins.

1644
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 3: Those will eventually turn over.

1645
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:19,920
Speaker 2: Your body gets rid of it through turning it into

1646
01:14:20,399 --> 01:14:21,760
urea and then pissing it out.

1647
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,039
Speaker 1: And so what is the structure of a protein then,

1648
01:14:24,119 --> 01:14:26,479
I mean what elements is nitrogen and.

1649
01:14:26,399 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 2: Carbon and ye, nitrogen carbon, some oxygen in there and

1650
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:34,840
that's pretty much it. And so your body can get

1651
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,239
rid of you know, the other things will recycle some

1652
01:14:37,279 --> 01:14:40,800
of the other stuff, but the nitrogen, it'll it'll off

1653
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:41,399
as your reea.

1654
01:14:42,159 --> 01:14:44,279
Speaker 1: Do you do you have a favorite book you could

1655
01:14:44,279 --> 01:14:48,159
recommend the listeners regarding just this kind of backyard biology

1656
01:14:48,319 --> 01:14:51,319
stuff like regarding compost thing and just creating like a

1657
01:14:51,359 --> 01:14:55,520
cyclical ecosystem that people can nerd out on. I mean,

1658
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:57,359
do you have any references?

1659
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:00,359
Speaker 3: You know? I wish, I really wish I did.

1660
01:15:00,399 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 2: I feel like maybe this is something that's kind of

1661
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:05,840
missing from the popular culture, is like you know, pissing

1662
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:08,039
in my backyard by Damon Tie or something like that.

1663
01:15:08,159 --> 01:15:10,159
Speaker 1: Seriously that you got to catch the title and then

1664
01:15:10,159 --> 01:15:13,680
you could just cover everything like biochart compost all this ship,

1665
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:17,439
which is like basically making people self sufficient less wasteful.

1666
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,439
It's really fascinating shit, right, I mean it's I think

1667
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:24,000
it's yeah cool. I love the stories you post on Intagram,

1668
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:27,039
which is you're in Instagram's date. Just what is it,

1669
01:15:27,119 --> 01:15:28,479
Damon Tian? What is it again?

1670
01:15:29,079 --> 01:15:31,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just it's just Damon Tai e A.

1671
01:15:31,319 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 1: M O n and then Thai t I I g

1672
01:15:34,159 --> 01:15:34,760
h e.

1673
01:15:36,159 --> 01:15:36,399
Speaker 3: Yep.

1674
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:37,159
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1675
01:15:38,119 --> 01:15:39,520
Speaker 2: And I mean the thing is like a lot of

1676
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,640
it's like I've pulled from, like I say, different cultural groups.

1677
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,520
People are into biocharts. You can find forms just about

1678
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:47,920
that where people nerd out about that. You can find

1679
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:50,319
forms about people that just do k and F Korean

1680
01:15:50,399 --> 01:15:52,840
natural farming, and then calm posting.

1681
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,239
Speaker 3: So if you if you kind of stick your.

1682
01:15:54,199 --> 01:15:56,159
Speaker 2: Head in those three worlds, you'll pick up a lot

1683
01:15:56,199 --> 01:15:58,359
of stuff we're just talking about. But nobody I feel

1684
01:15:58,359 --> 01:16:00,800
like has really taken those and like weighted them into

1685
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:02,560
one easy to like consume.

1686
01:16:03,399 --> 01:16:05,039
Speaker 3: You know, book, you should do that.

1687
01:16:05,039 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 1: I'm serious, man, you should do that, because that would

1688
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:08,800
that's fucking I mean, the stuff you post is so

1689
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:13,359
fucking interesting, and you're a biologist and a scientist and

1690
01:16:13,359 --> 01:16:16,159
and have a like a understand I mean, this is

1691
01:16:16,159 --> 01:16:18,039
your career. It's an understanding. And then you take that

1692
01:16:18,079 --> 01:16:22,800
approach to just growing things in a backyard, composting and

1693
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:24,960
that kind of just you know, and it's and it's

1694
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:28,760
fucking fun and rewarding obviously for people. So it's I

1695
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:31,760
think it's a unique lens. You know, it'd be really Yeah,

1696
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:34,560
I encourage you to put it together in some sort

1697
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:37,239
of format, even just the website. It's really cool shit.

1698
01:16:37,399 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 2: So it's kind of funny, you because like I didn't

1699
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:41,359
get into this because I was like trying to grow

1700
01:16:41,399 --> 01:16:42,840
a thing in my yard, which is like what most

1701
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,199
people get into guarding for. I got into this as

1702
01:16:45,279 --> 01:16:49,159
like a person that loves ecology and was like, all right, cool,

1703
01:16:49,319 --> 01:16:51,640
how do I basically keep all my nutrients here and

1704
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:53,600
not have to bring anything in? I don't need to,

1705
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:55,039
you know, if I can, if I can stand it.

1706
01:16:55,079 --> 01:16:57,680
So my whole goals since moving to like my new

1707
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:00,720
place has been to never use the green bin and

1708
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:03,439
then to like minimize how much we use the trash

1709
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:06,119
and the recycling bins. Yeah, and I think we've only

1710
01:17:06,199 --> 01:17:09,800
used the green bin twice since we've been here, So

1711
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:12,800
I mean everything I figure out how to cycle, which

1712
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:14,520
is weird because like most people they talk about gardening,

1713
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:17,960
they're like growing stuff, and I would say, like seventy

1714
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:21,239
percent of my effort is how do I break stuff down?

1715
01:17:22,199 --> 01:17:23,640
Speaker 3: I really interested in making soil.

1716
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:26,239
Speaker 1: But also it's like on another level, it's like you're

1717
01:17:26,319 --> 01:17:29,800
you've created this ecosystem on your fucking property, right, not

1718
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:32,760
just you personally, but the proverbial you me anyone listening,

1719
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:34,880
and now you're in charge of it, and you're kind

1720
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,840
of you know, you learn so much more by paying attention,

1721
01:17:39,039 --> 01:17:40,720
and it gets your ass outside so you're not just

1722
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,840
sitting inside staring at a screen. And it's fascinating stuff

1723
01:17:44,199 --> 01:17:46,560
and it's it sure beats fucking video games, but it's

1724
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:49,560
a similar thing going on. There's lots of different factors

1725
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:53,359
to think about their strategies. There's and it's really cool

1726
01:17:53,359 --> 01:17:55,680
stuff like that. Was that when I got the wood chipper,

1727
01:17:56,279 --> 01:17:58,119
you know, because I was I was like, man, I'm pruning.

1728
01:17:58,199 --> 01:18:00,960
I'm not growing grass. I don't have turf grass I

1729
01:18:01,239 --> 01:18:03,079
live in time a leaping thorn scrubs. So that's what

1730
01:18:03,119 --> 01:18:05,239
I'm growing. I'm growing thorn scrub plants. That's what brings

1731
01:18:05,239 --> 01:18:07,680
in all the cool lizards. I had a fucking Texas

1732
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:10,239
spiny lizard, you know, doing a face off with me

1733
01:18:10,319 --> 01:18:12,840
today when I opened my front door. I've got cool

1734
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:16,199
birds coming by, all these cool insects, all these cool moths.

1735
01:18:16,239 --> 01:18:20,079
I get dragonflies, you know, chirping frogs in the back.

1736
01:18:21,039 --> 01:18:22,600
And so I was like, you know, I was like, well,

1737
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:25,920
I'm wasting and I'm cutting brush a lot because like

1738
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,479
these shrubs grow, I want to keep them from getting

1739
01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:30,479
too big so I can pack a lot of stuff

1740
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:32,199
in here. I don't want them to shade out some

1741
01:18:32,239 --> 01:18:34,199
of the cac that I got, So I prune these

1742
01:18:34,199 --> 01:18:37,319
shrubs and then I was just taking the clippings, which

1743
01:18:37,319 --> 01:18:40,640
are all like an inch diameter at most branches, and

1744
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:41,960
just throwing them on a street. And I was like,

1745
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:44,359
this is a pain in the ass, and you know,

1746
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:48,159
the fucking neighbors probably don't like it. And so if

1747
01:18:48,199 --> 01:18:49,399
I could just use these and I was like, oh,

1748
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:51,079
I just get a wood shipper and then I can

1749
01:18:51,119 --> 01:18:52,800
turn it into compost and I can then use for

1750
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:55,119
soil to grow more stuff so I have more trees

1751
01:18:55,159 --> 01:18:58,399
to plant and you know, and it's yeah, it was

1752
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:00,439
really fulfilling. And so I'm just like, man, and I'm

1753
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:04,439
like cultivating this ecosystem. I want less roaches. I need

1754
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:05,800
more lizards. What do I need to do to get

1755
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:09,640
the lizards in there? You know, I want the chirping frogs.

1756
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,000
What type of habitat do they like? Right? Like, how

1757
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:15,920
do I I've got mosquito traps to keep the mosquitoes

1758
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:18,319
down because the mosquitos will naturally be attracted the plant

1759
01:19:18,359 --> 01:19:21,520
life as opposed to like an empty parking lot. And

1760
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:23,760
so there's all this. You know, you just start thinking

1761
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:26,119
about these things and you're like, damn, I'm like this

1762
01:19:26,279 --> 01:19:28,520
is what people have been doing forever, like stewarding the

1763
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:33,079
land essentially right, like managing it right, enabling the diversity,

1764
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,239
et cetera. It's really fucking fulfilling, man, It's really fun.

1765
01:19:36,279 --> 01:19:37,880
That's why I love seeing what you do. I mean

1766
01:19:38,199 --> 01:19:41,319
talking about like fly pathogenic fungi trying to cultivate fundy.

1767
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:44,159
You grow oysters in everything too. You grow oyster mushrooms

1768
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:46,520
on all your composts. I haven't hit that yet.

1769
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:49,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, so oysters are one of the ways for me.

1770
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 2: Oyster mushroms are one of the ways for me to

1771
01:19:51,079 --> 01:19:52,920
deal with a lot of the woody substrates I was

1772
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:55,439
getting because I've got a like around life property. You know,

1773
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:58,159
We've got a bunch of like really old established shruit

1774
01:19:58,199 --> 01:19:59,920
trees that you know, I got to prune and stuff

1775
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:02,520
like that's you know, with all this heavy biomass that

1776
01:20:03,079 --> 01:20:04,880
you know, I can chip and I can throw into compost,

1777
01:20:05,079 --> 01:20:07,119
but it's something that also breaks these things down our

1778
01:20:07,159 --> 01:20:08,399
fun guys. I was like, well, it'll be nice, but

1779
01:20:08,399 --> 01:20:09,960
I could also get a little food out of this.

1780
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:12,319
And so I'll do is I'll take some of that

1781
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:16,079
woody biomass and then run native oysters on it.

1782
01:20:16,199 --> 01:20:17,079
Speaker 3: And it's really important.

1783
01:20:17,079 --> 01:20:20,600
Speaker 2: I'm trying to work predominantly with native fung guys. Like

1784
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:23,119
you know, you could buy oysters online, but a lot

1785
01:20:23,159 --> 01:20:25,840
of times you might be getting something that is a

1786
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:28,920
potential threat for your ecosystem. I e. You would get

1787
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:31,119
a species that if it got out of your yard

1788
01:20:31,119 --> 01:20:34,199
for some reason, might end up taking over your native habitat.

1789
01:20:34,239 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 3: And we see this with the yellow oyster.

1790
01:20:36,119 --> 01:20:38,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the kind of like northeastern United States through

1791
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,359
the Midwest. Now it's a species of originally from China

1792
01:20:41,399 --> 01:20:41,840
and Russia.

1793
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:44,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw that Wisconsin over the summer. I was like,

1794
01:20:44,359 --> 01:20:46,039
what the fuck? And then I was like, this is beautiful.

1795
01:20:46,039 --> 01:20:47,319
Then I learned it was in vasive, was like, god

1796
01:20:47,399 --> 01:20:47,800
damn it.

1797
01:20:49,079 --> 01:20:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that's why it's important to work with

1798
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:53,000
the natives. And then also the natives are already adapted

1799
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:54,479
to where you're at, and so they're going to be

1800
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,439
able to throw easier and stuff like that in your habitat.

1801
01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:59,960
So I'll use that to break down the woody biomass,

1802
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:02,279
get a little bit of food from it, and then

1803
01:21:02,319 --> 01:21:05,079
I'll take the spent substrate and then just add out

1804
01:21:05,079 --> 01:21:06,920
of the compost because all the lignin and a good

1805
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:09,520
portion of the cellulus has been broken down at that point,

1806
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:11,920
and so it just you know, breaks down even faster

1807
01:21:12,159 --> 01:21:13,239
in that compost heat.

1808
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:15,239
Speaker 3: And the beauty about that too is that's going.

1809
01:21:15,159 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 2: To bring in a different set of microinvertebrates. You know,

1810
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:21,680
that will bring in a lot more springtails, a lot

1811
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:23,880
more things like fungus mites and things like that.

1812
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:28,239
Speaker 1: Springtails easy, Yeah, that's I didn't even know what they

1813
01:21:28,279 --> 01:21:29,960
were until a few I mean, i'd heard the name,

1814
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:31,840
but I didn't really know a roll in an ecosystem

1815
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:35,159
till a few months ago. So what so for like

1816
01:21:35,199 --> 01:21:38,119
someone who wants to cultivate oysters but doesn't want because

1817
01:21:38,119 --> 01:21:39,600
I don't want to do the whole setup. Man, where

1818
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:41,800
you're sterilizing shit in a pressure cooker, wohild you? Is

1819
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:44,119
there like a easy method to do it? Or you

1820
01:21:44,159 --> 01:21:46,439
always need the pressure cooker? Can you do it outside?

1821
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:47,399
What's your method?

1822
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? It's I mean my method right now. I mean

1823
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:54,000
I do a mix of things. I do. I do

1824
01:21:54,039 --> 01:21:55,760
a pressure cooker and my pressure cooker.

1825
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:56,399
Speaker 3: I mean instapot.

1826
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:59,119
Speaker 2: I don't mean like a fancy pressure cooker, like it's

1827
01:21:59,199 --> 01:22:01,039
the thing we're already cooked and rice within the house,

1828
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:03,600
because that can get that can get you a high

1829
01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:07,279
enough pressure over extended period of time to sterilize your substrates,

1830
01:22:07,359 --> 01:22:09,399
especially dude, if it's just coming straight out of your

1831
01:22:09,399 --> 01:22:10,319
wood chipper.

1832
01:22:10,399 --> 01:22:13,000
Speaker 3: Like I'm not saying that stuffs clean, but it's.

1833
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:15,680
Speaker 2: Pretty clean, you know, And so just doing it in

1834
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:17,760
the pot will get you there. But I've also been

1835
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:22,239
experimenting the last man three four years with just using

1836
01:22:22,239 --> 01:22:25,000
a solar cooker instead of a pressure cooker in order

1837
01:22:25,039 --> 01:22:28,600
to sterilize the substrates and stuff, and that's worked well,

1838
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:30,399
but I think it's only it works well in my

1839
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:34,520
hands to play have that molecular cell biology background, and

1840
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:36,159
so I'm trying to figure out ways to make that

1841
01:22:36,319 --> 01:22:39,439
easier for other people to pick up. But I would

1842
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:42,800
say that, you know, the really the full proof way

1843
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:45,720
is to get an instapot. Go online and watch a

1844
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:47,840
couple of people that are using instapot to do much

1845
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:49,800
from cultivation and you'll be able to get there. The

1846
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:51,720
other thing I'm trying to do get away from like

1847
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:54,960
online you'll see everybody using plastic bags for muscu fultivation

1848
01:22:55,119 --> 01:22:58,119
and drive me fucking crazy. So I mainly just use

1849
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:02,039
canning jars and they work great. You can resh them,

1850
01:23:02,039 --> 01:23:04,000
you can use them. They're dirt cheap, you know. You

1851
01:23:04,119 --> 01:23:07,239
go to small March and get a case of them

1852
01:23:07,319 --> 01:23:10,039
for like ten bucks and that'll that'll do you well.

1853
01:23:10,239 --> 01:23:12,359
Speaker 1: So you do them inside right, like you keep them

1854
01:23:12,359 --> 01:23:14,359
inside while they're being inoculated.

1855
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:18,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, keep it inside while they're being inoculated. Well, actually

1856
01:23:18,159 --> 01:23:19,600
I take that back. They used to be in the

1857
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:22,159
closet with a closet is full of dried mushrooms right now,

1858
01:23:22,159 --> 01:23:23,239
they need to get sequenced.

1859
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 3: So I did move them outside. They're just in okay,

1860
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,960
weide ice chest.

1861
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:33,680
Speaker 1: Okay, put them outside, just in an ice chest.

1862
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, just in an ice chest.

1863
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:38,680
Speaker 2: So that way, like their temperature isn't fluctuating a whole bunch.

1864
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 1: Oh sure, it's more moderated instead of going up and

1865
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:43,560
down a lot. Yeah.

1866
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:45,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more moderated in there.

1867
01:23:45,359 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 2: And then once I see that my ceilium has run

1868
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:50,399
through all the substraight, then I'll take them and I'll

1869
01:23:50,399 --> 01:23:52,960
put them in my fruiting chamber, which is literally just

1870
01:23:53,159 --> 01:23:55,840
like a box with holes in it, so I can

1871
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:57,720
kind of keep a high humidity in there. And they'll

1872
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:00,960
put that outside so that way that the airflow comes

1873
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,560
through exchanges enough oxygen to get them the fruit.

1874
01:24:04,039 --> 01:24:05,720
Speaker 1: It might be too hot where I am to do

1875
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:09,039
it outside though, huh.

1876
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might be ease. I mean you see oysters

1877
01:24:10,359 --> 01:24:11,079
in your native.

1878
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:14,119
Speaker 1: Environments, right, yeah, totally right.

1879
01:24:14,159 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 2: You know it's like that's like one of these things

1880
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:18,800
like you're using a fungus, you really want to look

1881
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:20,760
around and you're like, who survives.

1882
01:24:20,319 --> 01:24:21,359
Speaker 3: In my area already?

1883
01:24:22,079 --> 01:24:23,159
Speaker 2: And then lean into that?

1884
01:24:23,359 --> 01:24:25,199
Speaker 1: What would be? So what is it?

1885
01:24:25,319 --> 01:24:27,600
Speaker 3: Unless you do inside? Unless you do inside cultivations.

1886
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:30,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So what would be just really easy for

1887
01:24:30,319 --> 01:24:32,319
someone who wants to just do oysters. You would just

1888
01:24:32,359 --> 01:24:36,760
get canning jars, put stuff, probably chop it up to

1889
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:38,600
a decent size so you can actually stuff it in

1890
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:41,239
the canning jar. After you heat it, heat it up

1891
01:24:41,239 --> 01:24:44,680
in the pressure cooker, sterilize it, and then when it's

1892
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:46,960
still kind of hot, put it in the canning jar.

1893
01:24:47,079 --> 01:24:47,720
Or what would you do?

1894
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 2: You So, I'll just a'll fill my canning jars with

1895
01:24:52,039 --> 01:24:54,920
my woody debris, just kind of smash it in there

1896
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:57,159
as tight as I can because you'll always have air

1897
01:24:57,199 --> 01:24:59,079
pockets and any kind of like wood. You biomas your

1898
01:24:59,119 --> 01:25:02,359
jam into a jar, make sure that there's there's moisture

1899
01:25:02,359 --> 01:25:04,319
in it, so you could put water in there, let

1900
01:25:04,319 --> 01:25:07,159
it sit for like overnight, pour the water out, and

1901
01:25:07,199 --> 01:25:11,000
then put that in your your your insta pot. And

1902
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:13,039
you're gonna want to have a couple of holes poked

1903
01:25:13,079 --> 01:25:15,960
in the top of the jar, and you can just

1904
01:25:16,039 --> 01:25:18,760
put like athletic tape over the top of that, and

1905
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:21,680
that's gonna act as a way to keep bacteria from

1906
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:24,520
getting in there, and it'll keep you making a bomb.

1907
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:28,199
Speaker 1: Put a lid on the jar when you put it

1908
01:25:28,199 --> 01:25:28,399
in there.

1909
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm actually going to put a lid on the

1910
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:32,600
jar and put that in the insta pot with holes

1911
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:35,640
in them though, yep. And and then so I'll just

1912
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:38,640
cook that for two hours, you know, on the insta pot,

1913
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:40,880
let it sit overnight and let it cool down, and

1914
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:43,880
the next day I'll take that jar now, and then

1915
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:47,079
I'll transfer my spaw into it my mycelium.

1916
01:25:47,159 --> 01:25:50,239
Speaker 1: Does the have water around the jars too, or is

1917
01:25:50,279 --> 01:25:52,039
it just just in the Yeah?

1918
01:25:53,199 --> 01:25:53,640
Speaker 3: It does.

1919
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:56,800
Speaker 2: So like I'm usually putting i don't know, like a

1920
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:00,000
fourth of the size of the jar for the fourth

1921
01:26:00,079 --> 01:26:03,239
the heighth of the jar of water in the bomby instapot. Okay,

1922
01:26:03,319 --> 01:26:06,399
all right, because that steam right to get the pressure yeah.

1923
01:26:06,359 --> 01:26:08,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, cool, okay, cool.

1924
01:26:08,119 --> 01:26:11,239
Speaker 2: Soot we'll get up to about yeah yeah, inSpot, we'll

1925
01:26:11,239 --> 01:26:15,359
get up to twelve psi, where like a typical kind

1926
01:26:15,359 --> 01:26:17,680
of like sterilizer that people are using gets up to

1927
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,680
fifteen psi and the thing is just run out longer.

1928
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:22,680
Speaker 1: The water also makes it so I can't get hotter

1929
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:26,560
than two twelve inside. Yeah cool, okay, great, Just we

1930
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:28,560
want to make they get up of water in insta

1931
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:29,039
pot and.

1932
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:30,800
Speaker 2: So then well you got to go in there.

1933
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:33,640
Speaker 1: So after two hours, then you take what you what

1934
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:34,000
do you do?

1935
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:37,000
Speaker 2: So then I'll let it cool down, because you don't

1936
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,279
want add your my celium to it. When it's blazing hot.

1937
01:26:39,359 --> 01:26:42,479
It'll kill it. And I will try to, you know,

1938
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:46,000
as cleanly as i can, take a clean spoon that

1939
01:26:46,119 --> 01:26:49,239
i've wiped off with, say isopropyl alcohol, and then I'll

1940
01:26:49,279 --> 01:26:52,960
scoop out some of my uh spawn and so spawn.

1941
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:56,239
All this is is a grain that you've grown your

1942
01:26:56,760 --> 01:26:59,800
mushroom my celium on. And I'll just make a layer

1943
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:02,680
of that on top of my wood chips in that jar,

1944
01:27:03,279 --> 01:27:05,319
and I'll pap that down so that it's a solid

1945
01:27:05,399 --> 01:27:07,039
layer nothing else can get in there.

1946
01:27:07,279 --> 01:27:09,520
Speaker 3: I'll put the lid back on and.

1947
01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:11,079
Speaker 2: Then I'll just put that away like you know, in

1948
01:27:11,159 --> 01:27:14,960
the cooler or in the closet, and then let it run. Oysters,

1949
01:27:15,239 --> 01:27:18,079
you know, if I'm doing a you know, a five

1950
01:27:18,159 --> 01:27:21,319
hundred mil jar that'll run in about two weeks, you'll

1951
01:27:21,319 --> 01:27:23,239
see the my celium grow all the way down to

1952
01:27:23,239 --> 01:27:23,760
the bottom.

1953
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:26,399
Speaker 1: No shit, and it's it doesn't get contaminated in that

1954
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:28,680
brief moment when you take the lid off and spoon

1955
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:30,039
the my celium in there.

1956
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so this is the reason why I'm just

1957
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:34,720
doing like a solid layer at the top. You'll see

1958
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:37,199
a lot of people that make mushroom bags online. They'll

1959
01:27:37,239 --> 01:27:39,319
add my celium to it and they'll shake their plastic

1960
01:27:39,359 --> 01:27:41,720
bag around. And that's great if you're working in a

1961
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:44,640
totally sterile environment. But I know I am dirty as fuck,

1962
01:27:45,159 --> 01:27:47,279
and so what I'm trying to do is make kind

1963
01:27:47,279 --> 01:27:50,159
of like a casing layer of the myceelium at the

1964
01:27:50,199 --> 01:27:52,159
top there. So even if a spore from something I

1965
01:27:52,159 --> 01:27:54,479
don't want gets in there, there'll be so much of

1966
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:57,000
that my celium right there at that top level that

1967
01:27:57,039 --> 01:27:59,079
it'll usually out compete it and kill it.

1968
01:27:59,079 --> 01:28:01,520
Speaker 1: Okay, And you'll leave it a contamination in the jar.

1969
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:03,159
When you're filling it with wood chips, you leave what

1970
01:28:03,319 --> 01:28:04,399
like an inch or two or what.

1971
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:07,079
Speaker 2: I leave like a lead, like a little like you know,

1972
01:28:07,119 --> 01:28:09,199
inch at the top maybe a space, And that's that's

1973
01:28:09,199 --> 01:28:11,399
where you're gonna put your my ceilium ultimately, And.

1974
01:28:11,359 --> 01:28:13,439
Speaker 1: If you don't have easy access to my ceiling, can

1975
01:28:13,479 --> 01:28:15,720
you just start with like an oyster grow kit, like

1976
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:17,640
order one of those, and then just use it, you know,

1977
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:19,800
after it fruits, just take that my celium or.

1978
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:23,680
Speaker 2: What Yeah, or being better at that point is don't

1979
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:26,479
let it fruit, and then just harvest right from that

1980
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:29,439
and you'll have a bunch of viable my celium because like,

1981
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:34,039
once the mushroom fruits, it kind of slows down its

1982
01:28:34,039 --> 01:28:37,119
immune system from what I've seen, Yeah, and so it's

1983
01:28:37,239 --> 01:28:39,560
more liable to get infected. So I would just take

1984
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:42,720
a new kind of you know, grow bag, and then

1985
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:45,279
you use that as my starter and.

1986
01:28:45,279 --> 01:28:47,399
Speaker 1: Just start like five jars or whatever with it.

1987
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what you could do is start five you know,

1988
01:28:51,039 --> 01:28:54,239
start five jars you know, of your woody substrate, and

1989
01:28:54,239 --> 01:28:56,319
then if you want to make your own spawn at

1990
01:28:56,319 --> 01:28:58,600
this point, take some of that from your from that

1991
01:28:58,640 --> 01:29:01,680
grow bag and then just make a jar that's just

1992
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:02,840
like grain.

1993
01:29:03,039 --> 01:29:04,640
Speaker 3: So a lot of people will use rye.

1994
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:06,399
Speaker 2: I don't like rye because I feel like it's contamining

1995
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:09,439
all the time, So I'll use millet. And all you're

1996
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:12,479
gonna do is just basically fluff up some millet in

1997
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:15,760
your instapot and then just add that layer of my

1998
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:17,720
celium on at the top of that and it'll run

1999
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:19,880
through it just like it's running through your woody stuff

2000
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:23,000
and your other jars, and now you've got this kind

2001
01:29:23,039 --> 01:29:25,520
of like super charge my celium because it's got all

2002
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,000
the nutrient access from all that grain.

2003
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:32,119
Speaker 1: When you say fluff up some millet, you mean fluff

2004
01:29:32,159 --> 01:29:34,239
up millet in a jar already, or literally just make

2005
01:29:34,279 --> 01:29:37,680
an instapot full of millet and then spoon on it.

2006
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:39,399
Speaker 3: Make like an instant pot full of millet.

2007
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:40,840
Speaker 2: So I mean the way I do it, and I

2008
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:43,720
don't like to measure anything because I'm becoming a lazy biologist,

2009
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:47,079
is I will literally add half a jarbi millet, and

2010
01:29:47,119 --> 01:29:50,399
I'll just add water to that millet until it covers it.

2011
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:52,159
Speaker 3: And then I'll just put the lid on with.

2012
01:29:52,239 --> 01:29:53,600
Speaker 2: You know the holes in the lid, and then pop

2013
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:54,720
that into pot to cook it.

2014
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:57,279
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, okay cool, and then you spoon that into

2015
01:29:57,319 --> 01:30:00,000
the jars. Let that cool, and then add the spot

2016
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:00,159
on it.

2017
01:30:00,199 --> 01:30:03,720
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, just that'll that'll fluff up. And now

2018
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:06,199
your jar when you pull it out, it'll be it'll

2019
01:30:06,239 --> 01:30:08,239
be like a half an inch to an inch left

2020
01:30:08,279 --> 01:30:10,760
of the top of headspace. And you'll just take that

2021
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:14,720
my celium now from that, you know, store bob bag whatever,

2022
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:16,640
and then just add that to the top and then

2023
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:18,800
put the lid back on. And what will happen is

2024
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:20,960
that my celium now will grow through that millet.

2025
01:30:21,239 --> 01:30:23,640
Speaker 1: Oh okay, and so it's now it's growing on millet

2026
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:26,399
instead of the woodchips. It'll probably you're basically creating like

2027
01:30:26,439 --> 01:30:29,479
your your own starter spawn that you can keep using.

2028
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:32,960
Speaker 2: Right. And then so once I have that jar, what

2029
01:30:33,079 --> 01:30:36,560
happens is I will take that jar to make more

2030
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:39,399
millet jars, and that is being the stuff that I

2031
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:42,920
add to all of my jars going forward, because mill

2032
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:44,359
it's a lot easier to work with, and a bunch

2033
01:30:44,399 --> 01:30:46,960
of woody scraps to adsw a little more nutrient dense.

2034
01:30:47,039 --> 01:30:50,439
You're you're my ceium's a little bit healthier usually mm hmm.

2035
01:30:51,479 --> 01:30:54,680
Speaker 1: Damn, but you're still but I mean you still. But

2036
01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:56,800
then once you've got that going, then you can use

2037
01:30:56,840 --> 01:31:00,319
that my celium to to inoculate the woodship.

2038
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:04,880
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, exactly, and then you can just regenerate it

2039
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:08,199
every time that you're you know, making more jars.

2040
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 1: And then that mushroom compost that comes out of it

2041
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:11,960
when it's spent, that's probably really good for the compost

2042
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:12,359
as well.

2043
01:31:13,239 --> 01:31:16,079
Speaker 2: Oh it's great, yeah, and I'll kind of do it

2044
01:31:16,119 --> 01:31:19,279
to make an extra like liquid fertilizer out of that sometimes.

2045
01:31:19,279 --> 01:31:20,720
So there's two things you can do with that. So

2046
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:23,640
once you've got that substrate, you've already pretty your mushrooms,

2047
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:26,479
you could add water to it and let it ferment

2048
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:28,840
for a week and you'll get this really really nice,

2049
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:32,319
complex nitrogen rich fertilizer that you can dilute out and

2050
01:31:32,399 --> 01:31:34,560
use on your plants. Then the other thing you can

2051
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:38,239
do is take that block out, put it someplace like

2052
01:31:38,399 --> 01:31:41,840
rolled in the dirt, and then put it in a

2053
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:45,560
humid zone and let it get infected. And what you'll

2054
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:48,039
see is you'll get this green fuzz that shows up

2055
01:31:48,039 --> 01:31:52,119
all over that substrate, and that is usually trichoderma. And

2056
01:31:52,199 --> 01:31:54,920
so trichoderma is a fungus that eats other fung guy.

2057
01:31:55,319 --> 01:31:57,640
It is one of the main additives you will see

2058
01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:02,319
in like seedling starter like soil mixes, because it will

2059
01:32:02,399 --> 01:32:05,960
keep pathogenic fungi from coming after the roots of your plants.

2060
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:10,000
And so sometimes I'll just generate a bunch of trichoderma

2061
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:14,640
and then I will scrape off basically all about green

2062
01:32:15,359 --> 01:32:17,960
into just a little cup and then I'll keep that

2063
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:20,640
for when I'm making seedlings in the spring, I'll mix

2064
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:23,760
that in with my compost in order to make kind

2065
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:28,000
of a more you know, seedlings safe starting mixing soil.

2066
01:32:28,279 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 1: I didn't I saw trichaderma because I've always heard it,

2067
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:33,159
you know, as being the bane of existence of mushroom

2068
01:32:33,199 --> 01:32:35,319
growers because it will infect the message.

2069
01:32:35,319 --> 01:32:36,880
Speaker 3: I mean you mean you mean cube, you mean cube,

2070
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:37,800
you mean cube growers?

2071
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,439
Speaker 1: You growers, right, yeah, cube gros but it but it's

2072
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:44,640
actually beneficial to plants because what is it. It's a

2073
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:46,279
fungus that eats other fungi or what.

2074
01:32:47,319 --> 01:32:50,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, wow, it's great to having the soil and

2075
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:54,720
it will tightly associate with plant roots. And I think

2076
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:56,680
the first guy I saw doing this is like Temo.

2077
01:32:57,880 --> 01:32:59,640
He's like down in Mexico now, but he was up

2078
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:01,720
in Humble for a while. He was at some place

2079
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:03,920
in Costa Rica and they're just making these giant batches

2080
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:06,479
a trichoderma like in fast. I'm like, dude, what are

2081
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:09,000
you doing? Like that seems corible. I know you're like

2082
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:10,560
a mushroom guy. And he's like, oh no, we're doing

2083
01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:12,199
this for our plants. And I was reading up on it.

2084
01:33:12,239 --> 01:33:14,000
I was like, oh Jesus, that's brilliant.

2085
01:33:14,199 --> 01:33:16,079
Speaker 1: Holy shit. I didn't. I didn't. I don't know why

2086
01:33:16,079 --> 01:33:18,840
I didn't realize this. Yeah, because I've seen it listed

2087
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:22,000
as additives and some of that, like you know, beneficial

2088
01:33:22,079 --> 01:33:25,640
soil mix. So trichoderma is beneficial to plants. It's not

2089
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:29,000
beneficial to silasi by cubensus for people that are trying

2090
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:32,039
to grow psychoactive mushrooms, but it's it's beneficial to plants

2091
01:33:32,079 --> 01:33:35,479
because it it out competes. It keeps the bad the

2092
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:39,560
quote bad fungi away, the rots and the other eagens

2093
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:41,399
and so.

2094
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:43,319
Speaker 2: And also, you know, for those of you doing home

2095
01:33:43,319 --> 01:33:46,199
coolation of mushrooms with you know, your giant ecological project

2096
01:33:46,239 --> 01:33:47,920
like I'm doing in my yard, you know, you don't

2097
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:50,680
want to like go rub yourself in your trichoderma and

2098
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:52,800
then go work on your mushroom projects because you're just

2099
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:54,880
gonna f everything over. So you want to, you know,

2100
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:57,479
use some logic there of like hey, I'm gonna work

2101
01:33:57,479 --> 01:33:59,439
with the trichoderma today, I'm gonna make sure I wash

2102
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:01,199
his clothes. I'm not going to come into the place

2103
01:34:01,279 --> 01:34:04,319
I'm moving mushroom stuff around, right, you know, to keep

2104
01:34:04,359 --> 01:34:06,640
those two separate. But man, yeah, it's a great it's

2105
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:07,960
a great additive to have.

2106
01:34:08,359 --> 01:34:10,880
Speaker 1: Who is that you said some guy was? He was

2107
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:12,720
in Costa Rica. They were mixing te like a derma

2108
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:15,560
into the seedling mix, the plant seedling mix chemo.

2109
01:34:16,159 --> 01:34:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Timoin. His last name is Menendez. He was up

2110
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:23,039
at Humboldt State for a while and yeah, I met

2111
01:34:23,079 --> 01:34:25,960
him through foolks up there. He's just an incredible guy,

2112
01:34:26,439 --> 01:34:29,560
just knows a whole bunch of stuff, really into a

2113
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:31,760
lot of this kind of you know, dirty biology for

2114
01:34:32,079 --> 01:34:35,359
like yard use, and he was doing at in dirty

2115
01:34:35,359 --> 01:34:38,960
by A Rica. Yeah, dirty biology for yard use.

2116
01:34:39,960 --> 01:34:42,560
Speaker 1: I gotta use it again. That's nice. Yeah, Okay, sorry,

2117
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:44,159
going so.

2118
01:34:44,239 --> 01:34:46,000
Speaker 2: He just said he has been an inspiration for me

2119
01:34:46,199 --> 01:34:47,560
in a lot of ways, just kind of like seeing

2120
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:49,640
his stuff. He doesn't post online that much anymore, but

2121
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:51,079
he's as one of these guys you get a chance

2122
01:34:51,119 --> 01:34:53,159
to have a conversation with him and you just walk

2123
01:34:53,239 --> 01:34:56,239
you walk away excited about trying new shit again. You know,

2124
01:34:56,319 --> 01:34:58,239
those the type of people you want to surround yourself with.

2125
01:34:58,439 --> 01:35:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, really, man, for real, I mean that's how I

2126
01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:04,239
feel when I talk to you. So, like, so, trichoderma

2127
01:35:04,279 --> 01:35:08,119
fungus acts as an antagonist to soil borne pathogens, which

2128
01:35:08,199 --> 01:35:12,119
is something through it damn. So, so what would be

2129
01:35:12,119 --> 01:35:16,760
a way to grow trichoderma and mass to inoculate soil?

2130
01:35:17,279 --> 01:35:19,479
Like use it like you said, just take an old

2131
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:22,199
spent mustard casing, roll it in the dirt, let it

2132
01:35:22,239 --> 01:35:26,479
get infected with the blue and greens, and then mix

2133
01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:27,760
that into a soil mix.

2134
01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:31,439
Speaker 2: Yep, that's like the that's the dirtiest way of doing it.

2135
01:35:31,479 --> 01:35:33,399
And like you know what Timo was doing. I think

2136
01:35:33,399 --> 01:35:36,319
in Costa Rica, I think they had isolated their own trichodermas,

2137
01:35:36,359 --> 01:35:38,880
probably buy a similar method or close right, and then

2138
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:41,000
they would take some of that trichoderma and then add

2139
01:35:41,039 --> 01:35:44,199
that to a liquid culture. And so that's just usually

2140
01:35:44,279 --> 01:35:47,319
water with some sort of sugar source. A lot of

2141
01:35:47,319 --> 01:35:50,239
people will just use like honey, like ten percent by

2142
01:35:50,279 --> 01:35:52,840
volume honey or five percent by volume honey, and then

2143
01:35:52,840 --> 01:35:55,359
the fungus will just grow like crazy that liquid if

2144
01:35:55,359 --> 01:35:55,920
you keep it area.

2145
01:35:56,119 --> 01:35:58,159
Speaker 1: The sugars act for a food as a food for

2146
01:35:58,199 --> 01:35:58,720
the fungus.

2147
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:01,600
Speaker 3: Yes, food source, and you can just grow a whole

2148
01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:02,039
bunch of it.

2149
01:36:02,079 --> 01:36:04,720
Speaker 1: They'll grow in liquid if you have a bubbler in there.

2150
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:07,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you got a bubbler in there, or even

2151
01:36:07,119 --> 01:36:08,720
if you can just put it like on a stir plate,

2152
01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:10,960
you know, little magnetic stir type thing.

2153
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:14,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, one of those oscillating like plates that's

2154
01:36:15,039 --> 01:36:16,840
you know, like the size of a compact disc and

2155
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:17,880
moves back and forth.

2156
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, or if you don't have that, you know, just

2157
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:24,399
poured into a shallow container so that oxygen can get

2158
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:27,359
exchange from the surface relatively easily, and I come through

2159
01:36:27,399 --> 01:36:29,159
and just shake it every once in a while, they know,

2160
01:36:29,159 --> 01:36:31,560
a couple of times per day, and it'll it'll do

2161
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:34,800
the same thing. You're just trying to keep oxygen throughout

2162
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:38,840
that liquid. But yeah, you can culture. Most fung guy

2163
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:44,319
will be happy in liquid cultivation, you know ascoes, basidio

2164
01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:46,840
my seats, things like that. They're easy to cultivate.

2165
01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:50,199
Speaker 1: So that's basically I know this is elementary for funky people,

2166
01:36:50,199 --> 01:36:53,319
but I'm not a you know, yeah, that's still blowing

2167
01:36:53,359 --> 01:36:55,399
my mind. So like that's how people when people do

2168
01:36:55,439 --> 01:36:59,720
that with zilosophy obviously with psilocybin mushrooms.

2169
01:36:59,359 --> 01:37:02,000
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, we'll do these liquid cultures of it and

2170
01:37:02,199 --> 01:37:04,880
inject that into a bag of substrate, you know, to

2171
01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:05,880
get it to grow.

2172
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,560
Speaker 1: Jesus and literally just giving them sugars and water and

2173
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:14,039
then keeping that moving bubbler or or an oscillating disk

2174
01:37:14,359 --> 01:37:15,920
plate or something. Wow.

2175
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2176
01:37:17,159 --> 01:37:19,319
Speaker 2: Or if it's just a shallow enough thing too, you

2177
01:37:19,359 --> 01:37:22,079
don't really need anything. If it's if it's an inch

2178
01:37:22,159 --> 01:37:23,960
or too deep, you know, you're making a really small

2179
01:37:24,039 --> 01:37:26,399
volume thing, or you got a big ass pan, you

2180
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:28,239
can get it to grow in there.

2181
01:37:28,359 --> 01:37:31,159
Speaker 3: Like, I'm pretty lazy. So actually, like the few times.

2182
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:33,039
Speaker 2: I've done liquid cultures, I've just done them like that.

2183
01:37:33,239 --> 01:37:33,319
Speaker 1: Roe.

2184
01:37:33,319 --> 01:37:36,359
Speaker 2: I just got a canny jar and you know, an

2185
01:37:36,359 --> 01:37:38,640
inch or two of liquid in there with sugars and

2186
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:39,439
they'll grow in there.

2187
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:41,840
Speaker 1: So when you're growing fungi in liquid culture, it's my

2188
01:37:41,960 --> 01:37:44,640
celium that you're growing, right, even though you can't really

2189
01:37:44,720 --> 01:37:46,960
I mean you can't really see my celial strands in

2190
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:50,119
the liquid, can you.

2191
01:37:50,119 --> 01:37:53,119
Speaker 2: You you'll see them ultimately, they'll they'll form like this

2192
01:37:53,159 --> 01:37:56,479
little like blob. You know, you'll get this like hairy

2193
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:00,760
blob growing in the liquid and that's all my celium.

2194
01:38:01,359 --> 01:38:03,800
And you know that's especially if you're doing my lazy

2195
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:06,000
method of not relays, sturring it and just using a

2196
01:38:06,119 --> 01:38:09,239
small liquid volume. But people that have a stir in there,

2197
01:38:09,319 --> 01:38:11,319
usually what you'll start to see is if you hold

2198
01:38:11,399 --> 01:38:13,439
up to the light, you'll see these little kind of

2199
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:16,920
like cloudy blobs in there, really small ones, and that's

2200
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:20,000
all just you know, my celial kind of clusters.

2201
01:38:20,279 --> 01:38:22,520
Speaker 1: Wow. So it just takes on a different form since

2202
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:24,960
it's in liquid and not on a solid substrate.

2203
01:38:26,079 --> 01:38:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the people the reason people like do those

2204
01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:29,640
all c's like that is each one of those little

2205
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:32,479
nodules that you end up seeing is a new initiation

2206
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:35,119
site right for fungus to grow out. So if you

2207
01:38:35,159 --> 01:38:36,880
pull up a syringe of that and you put that

2208
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:39,680
into your substrate, you can inject that all around your

2209
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:42,520
substrate and you'll be adding those little nodules all throughout

2210
01:38:42,600 --> 01:38:46,039
your substrate, and so that whole bag will then get

2211
01:38:46,079 --> 01:38:47,399
colonized much faster.

2212
01:38:47,760 --> 01:38:50,840
Speaker 1: I wonder if that would work for inoculating madrone trees

2213
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:54,880
with micro rhizol fungi if you found the right, if

2214
01:38:54,920 --> 01:38:57,039
you found the right you know, like at the base

2215
01:38:57,079 --> 01:39:00,279
of a madrone, there's an ectomycorrhizol mushroom stocking cap. You know,

2216
01:39:00,359 --> 01:39:02,880
this is probably associating with the madrone. You know, it's

2217
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:06,920
an Ecdo microhisol species. You could take that put it

2218
01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:09,239
in a liquid culture somehow, maybe just grind up the

2219
01:39:09,279 --> 01:39:11,319
cap or something or a little piece of the cap

2220
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:14,520
and put it in a liquid culture with what's in

2221
01:39:14,520 --> 01:39:17,279
the liquid culture against it is it? It's just sugar or.

2222
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:18,720
Speaker 3: Sugar your sugar.

2223
01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:21,479
Speaker 2: So a lot of people will just use honey, like

2224
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:23,000
five percent by volume honey.

2225
01:39:23,119 --> 01:39:24,119
Speaker 3: It works pretty well.

2226
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:27,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And then take that into like a meat

2227
01:39:28,039 --> 01:39:30,760
meat injector you know, for like injecting flavoring into meat,

2228
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:33,600
and then inject that into potted madrone trees. Do you

2229
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:34,600
think that's feasible.

2230
01:39:35,920 --> 01:39:36,680
Speaker 3: I mean it's feasile.

2231
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:39,239
Speaker 2: I don't know if it'll take because the madrone tree

2232
01:39:39,279 --> 01:39:42,079
is already kind of old and probably already has somebody

2233
01:39:42,119 --> 01:39:43,039
attached to the roofs by now.

2234
01:39:43,079 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 1: Well i'm talking about it. I'm talking about seedlings because

2235
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:48,479
people like in Texas madrones are a lot more sensitive

2236
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:51,600
than Pacific madrones because that's just the climate here is

2237
01:39:51,800 --> 01:39:53,760
it's more extreme and so and it's kind of the

2238
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:55,520
edge of the range, like they're only here because of

2239
01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:57,920
the place to scene. They're mostly in Mexico at higher

2240
01:39:57,960 --> 01:40:02,079
elevations and more music higher rainfall climates, but you know

2241
01:40:02,119 --> 01:40:05,000
there's some in the Austin area, Texas Madrones that and

2242
01:40:05,039 --> 01:40:07,560
they're they're like a fucking pain ask to grow. They

2243
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:11,319
die really easily, I think, until they get inoculated with

2244
01:40:11,399 --> 01:40:14,039
the fungus they need because their root structure, because of

2245
01:40:14,039 --> 01:40:17,800
that obligate acto microsissentation, the root structure is just different.

2246
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:20,359
So and they're like, man, they'll fuck. I had deer

2247
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:23,039
chew on one and instead of just re sprouting, it died.

2248
01:40:23,119 --> 01:40:26,239
It was like two feet tall. Yeah, I was so

2249
01:40:26,399 --> 01:40:27,039
fucking pissed.

2250
01:40:27,079 --> 01:40:27,199
Speaker 2: Man.

2251
01:40:27,239 --> 01:40:29,760
Speaker 1: The fucking deer in West Texas are awful. They just

2252
01:40:30,039 --> 01:40:32,439
they're like locusts that just live in the towns and

2253
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:34,880
you can't shoot them anyway. And so my and my

2254
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:37,239
friend Dan host Age was like, oh, yeah, if they

2255
01:40:37,279 --> 01:40:39,000
get chewed on when they're two or three feet tall,

2256
01:40:39,000 --> 01:40:41,199
they just die. They don't re sprout. And I was like,

2257
01:40:41,239 --> 01:40:43,560
what the fuck why. It's like, oh, they probably don't

2258
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:46,800
have the fungus yet. So I don't know, I'm just assuming,

2259
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:49,399
but yeah, that's really interesting.

2260
01:40:49,479 --> 01:40:54,000
Speaker 2: That's yeah, yeah, my assumption though, is it's probably what's

2261
01:40:54,199 --> 01:40:56,279
keeping the deer from eating. It probably isn't a mic

2262
01:40:56,439 --> 01:40:58,680
rizal fungus, it's probably an indefittic fungus.

2263
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:01,600
Speaker 1: Well, well, not keeping the deer. I think it's when

2264
01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:05,000
the leaves get knawed off and then now the transpirational

2265
01:41:05,079 --> 01:41:07,840
pull is no longer pulling water up from the roots,

2266
01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:10,159
and so then they just rode and fungie can get

2267
01:41:10,159 --> 01:41:12,119
at them. Maybe I don't know, but it was a

2268
01:41:12,119 --> 01:41:14,960
fucking bummer. I thought it would re sprout so but

2269
01:41:15,039 --> 01:41:15,439
it didn't.

2270
01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:16,840
Speaker 3: Hull.

2271
01:41:17,119 --> 01:41:19,239
Speaker 2: Do you see herbivore damage on them in the wild

2272
01:41:19,319 --> 01:41:21,000
very much. I'm also wondering if there's like if there

2273
01:41:21,079 --> 01:41:23,399
might be like an indo fight, it's like making something

2274
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:25,119
that keeps the deer from medium in the wild.

2275
01:41:25,359 --> 01:41:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's something in the ecosystem they seem

2276
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:29,520
to get that they're not getting when you grow them

2277
01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:32,479
in cultivation, or that you maybe have to introduce. That's

2278
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:35,119
my thinking. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know, but they're

2279
01:41:35,199 --> 01:41:38,720
you know, they're not I would they're not abundant in

2280
01:41:38,760 --> 01:41:42,000
Central Texas anyway, but you know, there's they do. There

2281
01:41:42,039 --> 01:41:44,600
are still quite a few left. But yeah, I don't know.

2282
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:47,319
Speaker 2: I mean what I would do is I would try

2283
01:41:47,479 --> 01:41:50,560
to just go get some soil from a wild species

2284
01:41:50,640 --> 01:41:53,560
or next to the wild plant, and then mix that

2285
01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:55,680
with whatever soil I'm using to try and you know,

2286
01:41:55,840 --> 01:41:58,640
grow my seedlings in. Because at least then you know

2287
01:41:59,079 --> 01:42:00,840
at least that by all would you is probably there

2288
01:42:00,840 --> 01:42:03,039
and the chance of it picking up the thing it needs.

2289
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:04,239
Speaker 3: You know, goes up a little bit.

2290
01:42:04,479 --> 01:42:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be That would be the quickest, dirty

2291
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:09,119
way to do it, you know, without having to do

2292
01:42:09,159 --> 01:42:10,960
some like lab work to try and figure out who

2293
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:12,640
it is that's associated and stuff like that.

2294
01:42:12,680 --> 01:42:15,880
Speaker 1: Seems like such an easy project for a grad student, right, Like,

2295
01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:18,760
it'd be really easy to have a control group and

2296
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:20,920
then have another group of seedlings because you can get

2297
01:42:20,960 --> 01:42:23,279
them to germinate easy, really easy. My friend really just

2298
01:42:23,279 --> 01:42:25,920
germinated a bunch from seed that I got for his

2299
01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:30,199
his nursery greensleeves in Flugerville. But it's keeping them alive.

2300
01:42:30,319 --> 01:42:34,399
They're just so they're so sensitive. So you know, you

2301
01:42:34,439 --> 01:42:36,119
could do a control where you've got a bunch of

2302
01:42:36,119 --> 01:42:39,039
seedlings that you just don't inoculate, and then it's like

2303
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:41,319
and you have to pick the fungal species. Then you've

2304
01:42:41,319 --> 01:42:44,159
got a group where you inoculate them with the meat

2305
01:42:44,199 --> 01:42:48,680
injector and a liquid culture or sport whatever of the

2306
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:50,760
fungus and see how it goes, you know, or just

2307
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:53,119
even grind up a dry cap into the mix it

2308
01:42:53,159 --> 01:42:55,319
into the soil mix. I don't know. I don't know,

2309
01:42:55,399 --> 01:42:56,600
but there's gonna be a way to come.

2310
01:42:58,000 --> 01:42:59,439
Speaker 2: Well, let's be something to like look at and we

2311
01:42:59,479 --> 01:43:01,880
can maybe asses through IAT and stuff like that. Is

2312
01:43:02,319 --> 01:43:05,600
what microhyzel fund do we see associated with these arbutists?

2313
01:43:05,720 --> 01:43:07,760
You know, like gods feeling, it's probably gonna be heboloma.

2314
01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:09,439
We seem to have a lot of those on our

2315
01:43:09,479 --> 01:43:13,279
beautist I see in California. But man, this would be

2316
01:43:13,319 --> 01:43:15,359
a great grad school project, like you said, for somebody,

2317
01:43:15,359 --> 01:43:17,920
somebody if they could do root tip sequencing and then

2318
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:20,880
do some indo fight prospecting and different tissues of the plant.

2319
01:43:21,279 --> 01:43:23,960
With that knowledge right there, you would you'd probably have

2320
01:43:24,159 --> 01:43:26,000
what you need to know to make a good plan

2321
01:43:26,079 --> 01:43:28,159
of like how to grow these out better.

2322
01:43:28,239 --> 01:43:30,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you what do you get associating with

2323
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:34,039
with our budhist men zizii in California? Like that? That's

2324
01:43:34,079 --> 01:43:37,239
that you know is an ecto micro hizal mushroom.

2325
01:43:37,319 --> 01:43:40,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you mean we do have like some belits

2326
01:43:40,399 --> 01:43:43,640
that will associate with them, like le sinum mans and.

2327
01:43:45,279 --> 01:43:50,119
Speaker 1: Like I saw, I saw it on Camaro Staphilus, a

2328
01:43:50,159 --> 01:43:56,560
relative of our beautiful Costa Rica. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2329
01:43:56,279 --> 01:43:58,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's definitely one of the big boys that's

2330
01:43:58,479 --> 01:44:01,520
on there. I think, uh, you do get hebolomas also

2331
01:44:01,560 --> 01:44:04,640
that associate with them. In fact, even that weird strawberry

2332
01:44:04,640 --> 01:44:07,920
tree they bring into California from the Mediterranean or from

2333
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:11,239
Europe that always comes to kiboloma on it. Yeah, so

2334
01:44:11,479 --> 01:44:13,279
those would be my those would be my two to

2335
01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:15,760
goose would be the lexium.

2336
01:44:15,239 --> 01:44:20,319
Speaker 3: And a heboloma. I'm pretty sure.

2337
01:44:20,479 --> 01:44:23,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think somebody somethdy can call me out, but

2338
01:44:23,319 --> 01:44:28,199
I'm pretty sure they're micro rhyzol let me see. Yeah,

2339
01:44:28,239 --> 01:44:30,439
and then also I'll see a couple of rhizopogons that

2340
01:44:30,479 --> 01:44:32,720
will show up on them too, and they always seem

2341
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:34,760
to pop out at the same time as the hebolomas,

2342
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:38,720
but I only see those on our buddhis uh uno,

2343
01:44:39,079 --> 01:44:43,079
the strawberry tree from Europe.

2344
01:44:42,079 --> 01:44:44,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's also.

2345
01:44:44,039 --> 01:44:46,720
Speaker 3: That's also but that's also a bully, you know. It's

2346
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:47,840
also bull of tallis.

2347
01:44:48,479 --> 01:44:51,720
Speaker 2: I would say, okay, yeah, so I would say try

2348
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:54,079
and get a hebeloma and try to get a bowl

2349
01:44:54,119 --> 01:44:56,720
of tallis. You know that you're scene associated with these

2350
01:44:56,760 --> 01:44:59,920
trees in Texas, and then use that in your soil mix.

2351
01:45:00,039 --> 01:45:01,920
At least then you know you're probably getting some of

2352
01:45:01,920 --> 01:45:04,840
the right Michaisal players there. I'm just gonna go to

2353
01:45:04,920 --> 01:45:07,000
Austin's got to do this, all right.

2354
01:45:07,039 --> 01:45:10,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to I naturalist type in Heboloma, Texas.

2355
01:45:10,960 --> 01:45:13,760
Set up a perimeter for the area where I know, like,

2356
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:17,640
set up a transect for central Texas where I see

2357
01:45:18,079 --> 01:45:20,920
where I know MA drones grow, and then see what

2358
01:45:21,199 --> 01:45:23,800
species has been observed there.

2359
01:45:25,199 --> 01:45:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean probably talking one of mycological clubs, San Antonio.

2360
01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:34,960
Austin's got to have one, Yeah, pulling samples and drying

2361
01:45:35,039 --> 01:45:37,039
for folks, that would be great, and then just grind

2362
01:45:37,039 --> 01:45:38,439
those up and out of the soils.

2363
01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:43,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. Heboloma crystulin of crystulino for me, and heboloma of

2364
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:44,520
the lutipis.

2365
01:45:46,319 --> 01:45:48,680
Speaker 3: Okay, the lutipees might be more of the native one.

2366
01:45:48,680 --> 01:45:50,479
Speaker 2: I think the other one for sure is from Europe,

2367
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:54,159
but also big aspects like people are horrible identifying hebolomas.

2368
01:45:55,840 --> 01:45:58,479
Speaker 1: It might be a neo, a new world one that's

2369
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:01,760
just been lumped in with Christ for me or what.

2370
01:46:02,119 --> 01:46:05,439
And then then let's see lex signum. What lex signums

2371
01:46:05,439 --> 01:46:11,199
occur in Texas? Just that one lex signum scam. Oh,

2372
01:46:11,239 --> 01:46:13,760
that's a beautiful one. God, there's only one. There's only

2373
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:17,000
fucking two le signum observations in Texas.

2374
01:46:19,079 --> 01:46:22,119
Speaker 2: Sam is probably wrong. That's that's like one that's more

2375
01:46:22,279 --> 01:46:25,199
like high latitude for the most part. Bars, I'm aware.

2376
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:29,159
So if you I, my guy feeling is that's probably misidentified.

2377
01:46:30,680 --> 01:46:34,159
Speaker 1: It's only got I can send you the U I'll

2378
01:46:34,199 --> 01:46:36,319
send you the link and maybe you can put an

2379
01:46:36,359 --> 01:46:37,079
idea on it.

2380
01:46:38,039 --> 01:46:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2381
01:46:38,880 --> 01:46:42,159
Speaker 1: Oh, I already commented on this one. Let's see. Yeah,

2382
01:46:42,159 --> 01:46:45,079
so it's probably not. It's probably not. Yeah, I was

2383
01:46:45,119 --> 01:46:47,439
already because I was already sniffing on this. I was like,

2384
01:46:47,479 --> 01:46:51,439
there's gotta be what what lex synum species are are

2385
01:46:51,600 --> 01:46:54,640
known from?

2386
01:46:55,319 --> 01:46:57,439
Speaker 2: You might also have some other you might have some

2387
01:46:57,479 --> 01:47:00,000
other bullet allies I'm not thinking about that shows up,

2388
01:47:00,560 --> 01:47:01,800
So it might be one of the riizopoge.

2389
01:47:02,319 --> 01:47:04,399
Speaker 1: I can't believe nobody has looked at this man, like

2390
01:47:04,479 --> 01:47:06,760
it's such an obvious fucking thing. It's like, Okay, you've

2391
01:47:06,760 --> 01:47:09,640
got a micro hyzyl tree that's hard to grow. Why

2392
01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:11,680
is it hard to grow in cultivation? Probably because it

2393
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:14,239
doesn't have the micro rhise unless it's you're planting in

2394
01:47:14,239 --> 01:47:16,560
the native soil. So now we have to figure out

2395
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:20,600
what what micro orsea grow with it.

2396
01:47:20,720 --> 01:47:22,399
Speaker 2: This is the reason why I think the strawberry tree

2397
01:47:22,439 --> 01:47:25,520
does so good in California's because whoever is making the

2398
01:47:25,560 --> 01:47:28,760
stock of it, I think accidentally has this rhizopogon and

2399
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:32,039
the hiboloma in the soil mix already, so just they

2400
01:47:32,079 --> 01:47:34,520
just do great, you know. Yeah, Like I don't see

2401
01:47:34,560 --> 01:47:36,880
people growing like our native our view is that much.

2402
01:47:36,920 --> 01:47:39,960
I think it's probably a similar problem out here in California.

2403
01:47:40,199 --> 01:47:42,840
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, so there is. Okay, So

2404
01:47:42,920 --> 01:47:46,039
for bullet taile's the order, they're all micro rhyzol right,

2405
01:47:46,079 --> 01:47:48,439
They're all symbiotic with plants with trees.

2406
01:47:49,479 --> 01:47:52,039
Speaker 2: Like ninety five percent of them. Yeah, Okay, I think

2407
01:47:52,039 --> 01:47:54,439
there might be a couple of weird saprofitic things in there.

2408
01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:57,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, so there's one hundred species observed on inet

2409
01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:02,359
in central Texas in the order bullet dailies Piso lithus, which,

2410
01:48:02,439 --> 01:48:06,920
of course that you see that Scleroderma belitist luriddellis hord

2411
01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:10,279
of belitist rubellus is the most common one. So being

2412
01:48:10,279 --> 01:48:13,439
that that's the most common, maybe that's a good candidate.

2413
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:16,119
Zera comilis christ centron.

2414
01:48:18,479 --> 01:48:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2415
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:21,520
Speaker 1: Man, but any of these are wrong. That's not that's

2416
01:48:21,600 --> 01:48:23,399
not that's a European one or what.

2417
01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:26,640
Speaker 2: No, it's it's a nay. We've been applying to the

2418
01:48:26,680 --> 01:48:28,119
wrong thing for a long time. But I would be

2419
01:48:28,159 --> 01:48:32,239
surprised if Texas doesn't have multiple zero camealas that just

2420
01:48:32,239 --> 01:48:33,720
don't have appropriate names right now.

2421
01:48:33,840 --> 01:48:34,880
Speaker 1: Uh huh.

2422
01:48:35,159 --> 01:48:36,760
Speaker 2: You know, when people want to help out with this,

2423
01:48:37,239 --> 01:48:39,920
like you can literally dry your samples down and then

2424
01:48:40,039 --> 01:48:43,720
send them over to Stephen Russell is at Indiana, Michigan

2425
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:46,840
now at mycota dot com and he'll do like relatively

2426
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:50,279
cheap sequencing for you because he's basically, you know, trying

2427
01:48:50,279 --> 01:48:52,399
to base figure out what we have in North America

2428
01:48:52,479 --> 01:48:55,680
non academics, so this is totally on his own, which

2429
01:48:55,720 --> 01:48:57,680
is great because I feel like it's more accessible that way.

2430
01:48:57,800 --> 01:49:00,840
But you can easily contribute by just drying specimens down

2431
01:49:00,840 --> 01:49:03,000
and sending them to my CODA dot call.

2432
01:49:03,199 --> 01:49:04,600
Speaker 1: But but they have to be tied to an I

2433
01:49:04,720 --> 01:49:09,119
Naturalist observation too, right yeah, right, the yeah, So so

2434
01:49:09,319 --> 01:49:11,439
up upload it on in AT and then whenever you

2435
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:14,760
upload something to in AD on the web page, the

2436
01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:17,960
web link of that in AD observation, it'll have numbers

2437
01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:21,279
after the last forward slash, and that those numbers it

2438
01:49:21,279 --> 01:49:23,520
should be nine numbers? Are is it nine or ten?

2439
01:49:23,680 --> 01:49:26,359
Forget anyway, it's nine or ten numbers. Yeah, that's the

2440
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:31,119
that's the IGH Naturalists identification that pertains specifically to that observation.

2441
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:34,199
So you write the number on it and whatever ID

2442
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:37,880
the AI thinks it is the ID, and and then

2443
01:49:38,199 --> 01:49:40,000
you know, dry it, mail it off and it'll get

2444
01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:42,760
sequenced and uploaded to a database and you can contribute

2445
01:49:42,800 --> 01:49:47,399
to a community science. So this fucking thing with the

2446
01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:49,439
Madrones has been driving me nuts though, because it's they're

2447
01:49:49,479 --> 01:49:52,319
such dope trees and they need to be cultivated more.

2448
01:49:52,359 --> 01:49:54,720
And ours are probably different from the ones in Mexico,

2449
01:49:54,840 --> 01:49:57,319
being how much the climate has changed in Central Texas

2450
01:49:57,720 --> 01:50:00,279
compared to Mexico over the last you know, fIF fifty

2451
01:50:00,279 --> 01:50:03,640
thousand years and so you know, they've been selected for

2452
01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:08,359
a hot or drier climate and they're they're getting developed.

2453
01:50:08,359 --> 01:50:10,680
They're getting destroyed a bunch too, because Texas hates it's

2454
01:50:10,680 --> 01:50:14,279
the landscape, so you know, and the developers. Yeah, it's crazy, man,

2455
01:50:14,319 --> 01:50:17,960
It's Texas and Florida I think are like pioneering habitat

2456
01:50:18,039 --> 01:50:20,920
destruction because of the just the all the politicians are

2457
01:50:20,920 --> 01:50:25,399
corrupt and connected to developers. And yeah, they're just creating

2458
01:50:25,399 --> 01:50:28,359
some of the most ugly landscapes in the United States.

2459
01:50:28,439 --> 01:50:29,119
Really good job.

2460
01:50:30,399 --> 01:50:32,720
Speaker 2: Yeah there. Their choice of paradise is strip Mall.

2461
01:50:33,119 --> 01:50:36,079
Speaker 1: Oh god. Yeah, well people hate it too, like people

2462
01:50:36,119 --> 01:50:38,199
are miserable. I did these videos the last like a

2463
01:50:38,279 --> 01:50:41,000
month ago, called you know, spiritually depraved and misery inducing

2464
01:50:41,079 --> 01:50:44,319
Landscapes in North America, and I like uploaded it. I

2465
01:50:44,359 --> 01:50:46,880
didn't check. I just was like, you know, it's cathartic

2466
01:50:46,920 --> 01:50:49,960
for me because I hate this landscape, this kind of landscape.

2467
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:51,800
And I checked like four days later. In the video

2468
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:54,199
had like, you know, fifty thousand likes, and I was like,

2469
01:50:54,239 --> 01:50:57,319
what the fuck? Like this really resonates with people. This

2470
01:50:57,359 --> 01:50:59,960
is kind of hilarious, Like everyone agrees that this stuff

2471
01:51:00,119 --> 01:51:03,319
looks terrible and makes you feel terrible to be around.

2472
01:51:03,399 --> 01:51:06,159
And but we keep building it. Not we the developers,

2473
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:09,359
you know, so they can cash in and we all

2474
01:51:09,399 --> 01:51:11,640
have to suffer with the fucking is sores and you know,

2475
01:51:11,760 --> 01:51:16,640
autodependent communities and giant parking lots and you know consumer farm,

2476
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:20,159
the consumerism that's farming all of us. So yeah, it's

2477
01:51:20,199 --> 01:51:22,800
you know, it's been weird, you know, not living in

2478
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:25,880
a place with public land like California and Arizona have.

2479
01:51:26,079 --> 01:51:31,119
Speaker 2: So yeah, Texas is crazy about how i mean little

2480
01:51:31,119 --> 01:51:34,079
access you guys have any anything that's not from it

2481
01:51:34,159 --> 01:51:36,239
private land, right, So it's like hard for anybody to

2482
01:51:36,279 --> 01:51:39,279
like go experience like, oh this is what this is

2483
01:51:39,319 --> 01:51:41,520
what paradise is. It's actually like what grew here on

2484
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:43,880
its own, yeah itself.

2485
01:51:44,079 --> 01:51:46,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you cross, you cross, you know, an hour

2486
01:51:46,600 --> 01:51:49,840
over the border and you're in like beautiful uh you know,

2487
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:53,439
thorn scrub woodlands that aren't destroyed and paved over with

2488
01:51:53,560 --> 01:51:57,119
hideous ship It's crazy, I mean, the contrast, you know.

2489
01:51:57,159 --> 01:51:59,119
And I think it's just because Mexico has the whole

2490
01:51:59,239 --> 01:52:01,520
heto system that was set up after the Revolution of

2491
01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:05,119
Mexican Revolution, which basically was a way to guarantee that

2492
01:52:05,279 --> 01:52:09,600
you know, the poor, the peasants had access to land,

2493
01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:11,880
to agriculture. And it was you know, revolt against the

2494
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:15,439
hacienda system and all these rich, fucking pig land owning

2495
01:52:15,479 --> 01:52:18,479
families that were owning all the land and enslaving everyone

2496
01:52:18,520 --> 01:52:21,720
else in a feudal in a feudal like state of uh,

2497
01:52:21,800 --> 01:52:26,159
you know, peasantry. So yeah, so Mexico, you know, or

2498
01:52:26,159 --> 01:52:29,039
you can go to New Mexico or Nevada or Oregon

2499
01:52:29,119 --> 01:52:31,520
or Arizona or Utah or all these places that have

2500
01:52:31,600 --> 01:52:34,600
more public land that you can actually go appreciate the landscape,

2501
01:52:34,600 --> 01:52:35,520
but not in Texas.

2502
01:52:35,680 --> 01:52:37,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, anyway, and.

2503
01:52:37,479 --> 01:52:39,600
Speaker 2: I think Mexico actually has a step above like our

2504
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:41,439
federal lands at this point because like we're seeing this

2505
01:52:41,640 --> 01:52:44,720
right when you've got you know, big Papa Feds come in,

2506
01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:47,159
they can then do some of these public lands. We're

2507
01:52:47,199 --> 01:52:50,760
like in Mexico, like who owns the real rights? So

2508
01:52:50,840 --> 01:52:53,159
like what's going to happen to that property, to that land?

2509
01:52:53,279 --> 01:52:55,479
It's the people that live there, right, I mean, I

2510
01:52:56,039 --> 01:52:57,880
had I had Lineline blown away this year. This is

2511
01:52:57,880 --> 01:53:01,520
my first time down to Wahawka last September and just

2512
01:53:01,560 --> 01:53:07,000
like seeing the communities and the landscapes that they've basically preserved,

2513
01:53:07,640 --> 01:53:10,000
you know, and maintained more or less. Right, these natural

2514
01:53:10,039 --> 01:53:14,319
landscapes im just like holy crapped, Yeah, man, which we

2515
01:53:14,359 --> 01:53:16,079
had I was had have shreded this up here because

2516
01:53:16,159 --> 01:53:19,720
I'm watched I'm going through this years. You know this spring, dude,

2517
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:22,960
logging's going down like I haven't seen since like the nineties.

2518
01:53:23,359 --> 01:53:27,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Well what I assumed you to, Dude Trump.

2519
01:53:28,039 --> 01:53:29,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I think part of it was you get

2520
01:53:29,880 --> 01:53:31,680
rid of a bunch of the National Force Service folks, Right,

2521
01:53:31,720 --> 01:53:33,880
That's happened right away when you came in, and that

2522
01:53:33,960 --> 01:53:36,119
means all your watchdogs are gone, and then you can

2523
01:53:36,159 --> 01:53:38,800
slowly start to bring in, you know, your friends to

2524
01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:40,760
kind of come and take all the resources.

2525
01:53:40,760 --> 01:53:42,319
Speaker 3: And I think that's what we're starting to see.

2526
01:53:42,439 --> 01:53:44,680
Speaker 2: So there's nobody who were reporting on it because you

2527
01:53:44,720 --> 01:53:46,960
already took all the people that are usually walking over

2528
01:53:47,000 --> 01:53:49,279
the forest out of the picture. And now we're getting

2529
01:53:49,359 --> 01:53:52,239
rid of all the research hubs in the National Force Service.

2530
01:53:52,279 --> 01:53:54,239
Speaker 1: It was all planned. All this shit was planned. This

2531
01:53:54,279 --> 01:53:56,960
is all twenty protect, twenty twenty five, all this bullshit.

2532
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:02,640
These fucking pigs, these fucking vermin, these these human cancers. Yeah,

2533
01:54:02,680 --> 01:54:05,960
it's it's crazy, man, what's happening? And I to I mean,

2534
01:54:05,960 --> 01:54:08,359
I still can't believe people voted for the fuck thinking

2535
01:54:08,359 --> 01:54:10,560
he's gonna you know, that he cares about them. I mean,

2536
01:54:10,560 --> 01:54:14,239
that's what really blows my mind. Yeah, we got that

2537
01:54:14,279 --> 01:54:17,640
fucking that, the society got that fucking stupid Really, how

2538
01:54:17,640 --> 01:54:18,920
did that happen so quick?

2539
01:54:19,319 --> 01:54:19,520
Speaker 2: Really?

2540
01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:21,640
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you how do you this guy's

2541
01:54:21,680 --> 01:54:24,119
been out there and like annoying con artists and scam

2542
01:54:24,199 --> 01:54:27,000
artists for fifty years. How the fuck did you think

2543
01:54:27,039 --> 01:54:29,000
that this dude was on your side at any point? Like,

2544
01:54:29,199 --> 01:54:31,520
I know, the left got annoying the last you know,

2545
01:54:31,640 --> 01:54:33,880
ten years, But was it that annoying that it drove

2546
01:54:33,960 --> 01:54:35,840
you to the side of being a fucking moron?

2547
01:54:35,960 --> 01:54:36,039
Speaker 2: Like?

2548
01:54:36,119 --> 01:54:36,439
Speaker 1: Really?

2549
01:54:36,880 --> 01:54:40,279
Speaker 3: Apparently? God?

2550
01:54:40,640 --> 01:54:43,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, both sides aren't offering what anybody wants, right,

2551
01:54:43,720 --> 01:54:44,560
that's the problem.

2552
01:54:44,720 --> 01:54:45,359
Speaker 3: What do people want?

2553
01:54:45,399 --> 01:54:47,880
Speaker 2: They just want, like to know that the next generation

2554
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:49,800
is going to be doing as well, if not a

2555
01:54:49,840 --> 01:54:50,640
little bit better than.

2556
01:54:50,520 --> 01:54:52,920
Speaker 1: That, to own a home and have like a couple

2557
01:54:52,920 --> 01:54:55,119
of vacation days a year and not have to worry

2558
01:54:55,119 --> 01:54:57,800
about getting sick like those what people want, right, Like,

2559
01:54:57,840 --> 01:55:00,399
they don't they don't want to fucking go to war

2560
01:55:00,399 --> 01:55:02,560
with Iran. They don't want, you know, to know that

2561
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:05,399
people are afraid to use the word retard and everything's safe,

2562
01:55:05,399 --> 01:55:07,880
and we're not going to call the homeless homeless anymore.

2563
01:55:07,880 --> 01:55:10,239
We're gonna call the munhoused because like, oh, that shit

2564
01:55:10,359 --> 01:55:15,439
was fucking nuts, really nuts, well intentioned, but absolutely fucking insane. Insane.

2565
01:55:15,479 --> 01:55:18,920
You live in a bubble. You don't have any genuine concerns,

2566
01:55:19,000 --> 01:55:21,279
you know, holy shit, how do we go to It's

2567
01:55:21,359 --> 01:55:23,920
just and now we're here and now we're like Christian nationalists,

2568
01:55:24,319 --> 01:55:27,880
you know, losing access to fucking abortion, the myth of Priysta,

2569
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:30,880
all this stuff like it went. It's just this pendulum

2570
01:55:30,920 --> 01:55:34,319
swing back and forth between crazy and crazy. You know,

2571
01:55:34,439 --> 01:55:36,520
like when when does it get like things that are

2572
01:55:36,560 --> 01:55:39,840
actually going to benefit people that live here? It's so nuts.

2573
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:42,439
Speaker 2: Well, this is the most important thing you can do

2574
01:55:42,920 --> 01:55:45,840
is fucking walk around the place you live, meet the

2575
01:55:45,880 --> 01:55:48,000
people that you live near, and just start talking to them.

2576
01:55:48,000 --> 01:55:49,479
And you know what, You're not going to have the

2577
01:55:49,479 --> 01:55:53,359
same opinions, and that's perfectly fine, you know, but like

2578
01:55:53,439 --> 01:55:56,039
you need to learn to like live with other people.

2579
01:55:56,079 --> 01:55:58,640
And I feel like part of pendulum swing now has

2580
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:01,840
been people have gotten so used to finding their own communities,

2581
01:56:02,239 --> 01:56:04,039
you know, the people that think just like them, and

2582
01:56:04,079 --> 01:56:06,439
that just is going to create this political back and

2583
01:56:06,479 --> 01:56:09,520
forth pendulum until we fucking blow the thing off its rockers.

2584
01:56:09,600 --> 01:56:12,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's so easy for humans to do that too,

2585
01:56:12,359 --> 01:56:14,880
because we're just innately tribal. You look at chimps, it's

2586
01:56:14,920 --> 01:56:17,079
the same thing. They grow to the group grows to

2587
01:56:17,119 --> 01:56:19,760
a certain size, it splits. Now they're fighting each other.

2588
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:21,560
Then that group grows to a different side. Now you

2589
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:25,840
got more groups fight each other. Tribalism is unfortunately ingrained

2590
01:56:25,880 --> 01:56:30,000
in our genome. I feel like in our social behavior.

2591
01:56:30,039 --> 01:56:31,800
It doesn't need to, Like you can correct for it

2592
01:56:31,880 --> 01:56:34,399
with culture, but you have to really be conscious and

2593
01:56:34,479 --> 01:56:38,520
aware of yourself. And yeah, man, just grant people some grace, right,

2594
01:56:38,640 --> 01:56:41,279
Like you can disagree with someone and think their opinions

2595
01:56:41,279 --> 01:56:44,439
are idiotic and still be respectful to them and not

2596
01:56:44,600 --> 01:56:48,079
demonize them, right, I mean yep, yeah, man, I don't know.

2597
01:56:48,319 --> 01:56:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we used to be able to reach

2598
01:56:49,640 --> 01:56:51,680
cumpromises in this country, right, Like, Hey, people could have

2599
01:56:51,800 --> 01:56:54,560
radically different opinions, we'll find the midway point that that wrk.

2600
01:56:54,600 --> 01:56:56,439
It's a little bit of what they want. But like

2601
01:56:56,520 --> 01:56:58,720
now it's like everybody's like, oh, I need to either

2602
01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:00,760
win or just we're not doing this at all. I'm

2603
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:02,920
not going to even play the game. Like no, man,

2604
01:57:03,039 --> 01:57:05,760
It's like, look at all the human society. It's like

2605
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:08,000
this has been a problem, like you said, going all

2606
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:10,600
the way back to our you know, primate ancestors, and

2607
01:57:10,720 --> 01:57:11,720
how did humans get.

2608
01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:13,079
Speaker 3: To the point where we are at this point.

2609
01:57:13,600 --> 01:57:18,399
Speaker 2: We learned to find institutional or social ways to control that,

2610
01:57:19,359 --> 01:57:21,359
and we're like starting to lose that again. Some of

2611
01:57:21,439 --> 01:57:23,920
that was religion, some of that was you know, philosophy,

2612
01:57:23,960 --> 01:57:26,159
and this has been a big thing in philosophy since

2613
01:57:26,239 --> 01:57:29,279
the Greeks and prior to that. And I feel like

2614
01:57:29,399 --> 01:57:30,960
now we're just throwing out all to the wind to

2615
01:57:31,079 --> 01:57:33,239
like try and get winner takes all and not just

2616
01:57:33,319 --> 01:57:35,199
gonna burn us all to the ground.

2617
01:57:35,439 --> 01:57:37,479
Speaker 1: So stupid man. Yeah, and people really got a limit

2618
01:57:37,600 --> 01:57:39,600
phone times too. I feel like that's another thing, right,

2619
01:57:39,680 --> 01:57:42,920
get outside and start you know shiitcomposting and looking for

2620
01:57:43,039 --> 01:57:45,640
fly fungus and ping on trico. Serious, that's what you

2621
01:57:45,720 --> 01:57:47,920
need to do maybe.

2622
01:57:47,760 --> 01:57:49,880
Speaker 2: Take maybe take a little acid too in your yard.

2623
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:52,800
I really think so much going on here.

2624
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:56,079
Speaker 1: I really think the psychedelic thing helps once. I don't

2625
01:57:56,079 --> 01:57:59,560
trust anybody who hasn't done acid once, right, especially no

2626
01:57:59,600 --> 01:58:01,600
one who's had a bad trip. The bad trips are

2627
01:58:01,600 --> 01:58:03,960
what forced you to change. But it's so funny because yeah,

2628
01:58:04,000 --> 01:58:06,399
here at the Texas more oppressive you mentioned acid, they

2629
01:58:06,399 --> 01:58:08,760
think it's like PCP. They think it's like the same,

2630
01:58:08,800 --> 01:58:11,239
you know, like you're gonna fucking be jumping off buildings

2631
01:58:11,279 --> 01:58:14,199
and attacking p It's crazy, man, It's just it's nuts.

2632
01:58:14,239 --> 01:58:16,960
But I think the psychedelics are definitely and psychedelics and

2633
01:58:17,079 --> 01:58:21,159
nature not not this like party mentality. Oh let's get

2634
01:58:21,199 --> 01:58:23,840
fucked up. It's like no, it's it's completely against that

2635
01:58:23,920 --> 01:58:28,000
all that like college college kid booze mentality, the drug

2636
01:58:28,079 --> 01:58:30,920
war mentality. Let's get fucked up. No, no, no, you know,

2637
01:58:31,079 --> 01:58:34,840
do do psychedelics sparingly there are self limiting drug and

2638
01:58:34,960 --> 01:58:37,039
do them in nature and do them for self insight

2639
01:58:37,720 --> 01:58:40,960
and uh and the experience, you know, to step outside

2640
01:58:40,960 --> 01:58:43,199
of yourself. And they're really it could it could really

2641
01:58:43,319 --> 01:58:46,640
help people, so you know, but it's not a given

2642
01:58:47,039 --> 01:58:50,439
you might just have a act like a jackass whatever,

2643
01:58:50,560 --> 01:58:53,880
but it's a yeah, definitely, I don't know. I think

2644
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:56,720
it gets people out of that. So anyway, well, man,

2645
01:58:56,800 --> 01:58:59,159
thanks a lot for coming on. I I this was

2646
01:58:59,239 --> 01:59:00,159
two hours if yea.

2647
01:59:00,159 --> 01:59:00,840
Speaker 3: It's good to catch up.

2648
01:59:01,119 --> 01:59:03,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love keep hosting your stories and of

2649
01:59:03,680 --> 01:59:05,880
course if people want to follow you, I always recommend.

2650
01:59:06,439 --> 01:59:10,560
I recommend you to everybody. Damon tie on Instagram, and

2651
01:59:10,920 --> 01:59:12,760
I think it's just really Instagram that you got that

2652
01:59:12,880 --> 01:59:13,960
you use the most, right.

2653
01:59:14,880 --> 01:59:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I use the most. I'm lazy come

2654
01:59:16,920 --> 01:59:19,720
to social media. Yeah, but you're use one platform mainly.

2655
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:22,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good, yeah, limited to put the stories. Yeah,

2656
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:25,119
the stories are super interesting. So all right, man, well

2657
01:59:25,119 --> 01:59:26,479
thanks a lot, Damon, great talking to you.

2658
01:59:27,680 --> 01:59:29,159
Speaker 3: Right you too, man, take care, take care.

2659
01:59:29,199 --> 01:59:29,239
Speaker 1: But