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Speaker 2: Now. Pw Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Speaker 2: Pro Wrestling Podcast.
Speaker 1: Today on the Wade Color Pro Wrestling Podcast, we jump
Speaker 1: back ten years to a special episode the Helena Cell
Speaker 1: Post Show. James Caldon and Greg Parks hosted this right
Speaker 1: after the event ended with live callers. This event included
Speaker 1: two Helena Cell matches, one featuring John Sene against Randy Orton,
Speaker 1: the other Dean Ambrose against seth Rawlins. Also Nikki Bella
Speaker 1: versus Bray Bella where the loser head become the others
Speaker 1: assistant for one month. Seamus took on the Miz for
Speaker 1: the US title, Page took on aj Lee challenge Jjlee
Speaker 1: for the Davis title, and more so. Again they're live
Speaker 1: callers and interaction throughout the show, which originally live stream
Speaker 1: on October twenty six, twenty fourteen, ten years ago this week,
Speaker 1: and it is today's ten years ago we Keller PROG
Speaker 1: Wrestling podcast Flashback.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the P to B Torch Live Cast.
Speaker 2: It's Sunday night, October twenty six, twenty fourteen, on a
Speaker 2: special edition of live cast here at P to B
Speaker 2: torchlivecast dot com. Following ws Hell in a Cell pay
Speaker 2: per view from Dallas, and I'm your host on tonight's show.
Speaker 2: P to B Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell joined by
Speaker 2: Torch columnist Greg Parks breaking down tonight's pay per view
Speaker 2: and we will get to Greg right here in a second. Greg,
Speaker 2: how are you doing tonight?
Speaker 3: I'm doing well, James, always glad to be with you
Speaker 3: here on these pay per view postgame shows.
Speaker 2: Yeah, first one since Night Champions last months. I was
Speaker 2: like six weeks ago. I think for a long time, Greg,
Speaker 2: we didn't know what to expect from the show in
Speaker 2: terms of would they have some sort of big angle,
Speaker 2: would there be a big development perhaps with the w
Speaker 2: title situation, no major title match on this show without
Speaker 2: brock Lester. Paul Hymn was there, but no brock Lesner.
Speaker 2: So there's a new number of contenders, John Cena, so
Speaker 2: we're gonna get seen a Lesner again. They tipped a
Speaker 2: big angle for the main event, main event, South Rollins
Speaker 2: Dean Ambrose. More than half of that quote unquote match
Speaker 2: was before the match even started, and then the main
Speaker 2: event ends with the return of bray Wyatt, costing and
Speaker 2: Ambrose the match against Rawlins. But what was your reaction
Speaker 2: when you saw that, Greg, Just initially when you saw
Speaker 2: the finish, and then we'll kind of get to the
Speaker 2: you know, the implications, But your reaction to how the
Speaker 2: main event the pay per view ended.
Speaker 3: Well, it was a little surprising to me because it
Speaker 3: didn't seem like the Seth Rollins Dean Ambrolse feud was
Speaker 3: over yet, and it looked like they were already transitioning
Speaker 3: into Dean Amberls versus bray Wyatt. So I'm curious to
Speaker 3: see how they fit Wyatt in with those two. If
Speaker 3: you remember, this is how bray Wyatt's feud seemed to start.
Speaker 3: He just randomly attacks someone and then they make up
Speaker 3: a reason later. This is how his feud with John
Speaker 3: Cena started too. His feud with Chris Jericho started a
Speaker 3: very similar way. Where he just came out of the
Speaker 3: crowd and randomly attacked Jericho. So we shouldn't be surprised
Speaker 3: that this is how it starts, but I think I'm
Speaker 3: surprised at when it's starting. When Ambrose and Rollins, we
Speaker 3: still haven't gotten a decisive, clear cut winner yet in
Speaker 3: this feud.
Speaker 2: What do you that's gonna happen? I mean, do you
Speaker 2: think it's WrestleMania, Like they're gonna save the you know,
Speaker 2: Ambrose's victory of Rawlins, You're gonna save it for WrestleMania
Speaker 2: The Bowl twenty seventeen. I mean like when, I mean,
Speaker 2: like honest, when do you think they because obviously you
Speaker 2: said they're going to go off to Bray and Ambrose
Speaker 2: and I assume Rowlins does someone with Orton sort of
Speaker 2: the internal battle the authority. But how when did they'll
Speaker 2: get back to a point where Ambrose finally get set
Speaker 2: win over Seth Rollins.
Speaker 4: That's a good question.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon.
Speaker 3: I think there were some thoughts that it might happen
Speaker 3: here tonight. Obviously that wasn't the case. I think WrestleMania
Speaker 3: is a possibility. I think that would be the very
Speaker 3: latest though, that you could do it, because Bray Wyatt
Speaker 3: and Dean Ambrose and then Seth Rawlins and Randy Orton.
Speaker 3: If you extrapolate those two out, do those two feuds
Speaker 3: stretch out to say the Royal Rumble and then Rollins
Speaker 3: versus Ambrose somehow picks up at the Rumble where they's
Speaker 3: off here, And how does that happen? How do they
Speaker 3: go back to Ambrose Rollins and have both of these
Speaker 3: two new feuds finish at the same time. So I
Speaker 3: don't know what the thinking is from WWE as to
Speaker 3: why they feel the need to go in a different
Speaker 3: direction right now without giving the fans a clear cut
Speaker 3: winner in this feud. But you know, for a WrestleMania match,
Speaker 3: Ambrose versus Rollins sounds appealing. But remember the last few
Speaker 3: weeks it feels like that feud has been kind of
Speaker 3: running on. So are they going to able are they
Speaker 3: going to be able to reheat it in the winter
Speaker 3: next year to really get it going and make it
Speaker 3: feel like a WrestleMania match comes springtime?
Speaker 2: And then like what kind of match can they even have?
Speaker 2: I mean, Helena Cell seems like the blowoff, you know,
Speaker 2: like as far as the match structure, so they've had
Speaker 2: a Lumberjack, they've had Helen to sell, you know, I
Speaker 2: quit I mean is that I just don't know what
Speaker 2: else they can do. Wants to go to hell in itself.
Speaker 2: But like you said, maybe enough time passes where they
Speaker 2: can kind of refresh it. It doesn't feel like it's,
Speaker 2: like you said, running on fumes and they can make
Speaker 2: it interesting again for Russellmania or some other pay per view.
Speaker 2: Ambrose has got to get the win. It just a
Speaker 2: matter of win. I mean, they could be back to
Speaker 2: it at TLC. I mean, they could have a TLC
Speaker 2: match and they might have a month off here, but
Speaker 2: that would be kind of a short change and presuming
Speaker 2: Bray Wha Dean Ambrose feuds. So yeah, I'm not sure,
Speaker 2: but I'm gon lean towards Mania to give them a
Speaker 2: really strong match between two younger stars, you know that
Speaker 2: that guaranteed showcase match for the younger you know, for
Speaker 2: the basically the recent NXT development of wrestlers, if you
Speaker 2: want to put Ambrose Rollins Wide in that sort of category. Uh.
Speaker 2: As far as as far as how the how this
Speaker 2: pay per view played out, Greg Roy Strong. I was
Speaker 2: Roy Strong undercar or with the opening match with Ziggler
Speaker 2: and c Sorrow, and then you have the first home
Speaker 2: of some match was seen in Orton and the top
Speaker 2: of the second hour, so that that's your entire first
Speaker 2: half hour of the show, an hour and a half
Speaker 2: of the show, and then they kind of went into
Speaker 2: some okay stuff. It made you've been Like I said,
Speaker 2: it was sort of all over the place. How do
Speaker 2: you assess this show overall when you look at a
Speaker 2: pretty strong first half of the show and then sort
Speaker 2: of a you know, okay, the good second half of
Speaker 2: the shot, how does it all balance out in your mind?
Speaker 3: Well, it's definitely a thumbs up show for me, and
Speaker 3: I think I saw it very similar similarly to how
Speaker 3: you saw it, James, where the first half of the
Speaker 3: show was a really strong thumbs up for me. Things
Speaker 3: sort of tapered off from there, but it didn't fall
Speaker 3: off a cliff, you know, the quality was still there,
Speaker 3: but it was harder to find than in the first
Speaker 3: half of the show, So it was a little bit
Speaker 3: of a dip in the second half. And your mileage
Speaker 3: me very on Ambrose versus Roll, that's again a match
Speaker 3: a lot of people were excited to see, and this
Speaker 3: is the one that people thought they were finally going
Speaker 3: to get a full fledged Ambrose versus Alland's match. You
Speaker 3: did sort of get that, but you didn't get a
Speaker 3: conclusive finish or a clean finish rather and you didn't
Speaker 3: get the kind of I don't think match quality from
Speaker 3: a pure wrestling standpoint that a lot of people were
Speaker 3: hoping for. And I'm okay with that trade off of
Speaker 3: the match quality wasn't four and a half stars to
Speaker 3: me or five stars. But was this a star making
Speaker 3: performance for Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins. Did they come
Speaker 3: out of Helena sell the pay per view stronger than
Speaker 3: when they went in? I think you could make the
Speaker 3: argument that they that they did based largely on the
Speaker 3: fact that they Maine invented this pay per view. So
Speaker 3: even though the match quality wasn't maybe what people were anticipating,
Speaker 3: there were enough big moments in the match to further
Speaker 3: each man's career and to make them bigger stars in
Speaker 3: the eyes of some of the fans.
Speaker 1: You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
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Speaker 2: And I know one of the big issues that people
Speaker 2: are gonna have with the end of the pay per
Speaker 2: view was again another non fit. I mean there was
Speaker 2: a penfall, but an interference filled finish to a mean event.
Speaker 2: Last month Summer Slam, I'm sorry, last month of the
Speaker 2: Night Champions was Rowlands interfered in the Brockwaster John Stenham rematch.
Speaker 2: They've had a slew of raw TV made events where
Speaker 2: there's either not even a finish or a DQ finish
Speaker 2: or non finish whatever. Are they pushing it, Greg or
Speaker 2: are they able to get away with it? Because the
Speaker 2: Ambrose Rawlins was pretty good. Like you said, it was
Speaker 2: a pretty good match. It wasn't technically a great like
Speaker 2: four Star match, but it was a pretty good match.
Speaker 2: Are they pushing it? And have they've gone too far
Speaker 2: with the cop out non finish DQ finishes as of late, well, there's.
Speaker 3: Still a long way from that Randy Yorton versus Daniel
Speaker 3: O'Brien non finish escapade of four paper four or five
Speaker 3: pay per views in a last year or whatever it was,
Speaker 3: So they haven't quite reached that point yet. But I
Speaker 3: think the the intrigue surrounding bray Whitt's return and him
Speaker 3: going after Dean Ambrose, I think that may largely make
Speaker 3: up for the finish that we saw. I think fans,
Speaker 3: because they're so high on very WIAT and obviously Dean Ambrose,
Speaker 3: I think they the intrigues surrounding in Ambrose versus Why
Speaker 3: the feud may make up for the uh, the anger
Speaker 3: that they may feel and not having a clean winner
Speaker 3: in in Rollins versus Ambrose.
Speaker 2: Very good, good thoughts. We're gonna jump to phone calls.
Speaker 2: Got lots to unpack, especially the undercard. Undercard deserves a
Speaker 2: lot of attension tonight. Usually it's right, right, we kind
Speaker 2: of sit and talk about, you know, two matches because
Speaker 2: the undercard's kind of you know, it's fine or wasn't
Speaker 2: that good tonight? The undercard really really held its own.
Speaker 2: So we'll get the phone calls and and some other
Speaker 2: thoughts on on the undercard. I think it deserves attention,
Speaker 2: so we would touch on that as well with of
Speaker 2: course the main events, UH before I had the phone calls, though, Greg,
Speaker 2: I always like to ask this question, how was your
Speaker 2: feed a network extreme? But what was it one your end?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 3: Last time, if you remember, I was one of the
Speaker 3: few times that I actually had problems UH with the
Speaker 3: feed at night Champions, and they were minor, but they
Speaker 3: were still enough for me to make mention of them.
Speaker 3: I had a perfectly clean feed the entire show on
Speaker 3: my laptop today, so I have no complaints about that.
Speaker 2: Very good. Yeah, I had a couple of glitches in
Speaker 2: the main event. I wasn't sure if it was the
Speaker 2: network or my internet connection, so I'm not sure about that,
Speaker 2: but yeah, otherwise it was pretty clean throughout, so I
Speaker 2: was pleasantly surprised that there were no issues. That that's good.
Speaker 2: But if people did have issues, let us know when
Speaker 2: you do call up and talking about how to sell
Speaker 2: This is Torch, This is Nedder. James Caldwell joined by Torch, Columbus.
Speaker 2: Greg Parks taking your calls at six four, six, seven,
Speaker 2: one nine, eight two eight, and we'll kick things off
Speaker 2: with the six one four area code. Welcome to Show
Speaker 2: sixty one four. Please say Jena and riclling from.
Speaker 6: Hey Greg, Hey James, this is Adam calling from Colemas,
Speaker 6: Ohio again.
Speaker 7: How are you guys doing tonight?
Speaker 2: Hey? Doing good?
Speaker 7: Adam?
Speaker 2: What's your mind?
Speaker 6: A couple of things first, I'll start with a stream.
Speaker 6: So time winner Cable Internet Provider PS three was the
Speaker 6: media source, perfectly clear, maybe one of the best qualities
Speaker 6: I've ever had, So I was gonna mention I did
Speaker 6: think that something was going goofy with my stream. Once
Speaker 6: the bray whyatt fiasco started, I was like, because it
Speaker 6: kept repeating the same thing over and over and it
Speaker 6: was not one of those you know blackouts three seconds
Speaker 6: the crowd's reacting. It was literally I you know, maybe
Speaker 6: it was shorter, but it seemed like ten to fifteen
Speaker 6: seconds at least for me, And I was almost ready
Speaker 6: to fast forward or tried to see if something was
Speaker 6: going on my stream, and then it came back and
Speaker 6: I was like, okay, so yeah, so no, Adam, the
Speaker 6: stream over people like.
Speaker 2: That because they shouldn't scare peop because I think people
Speaker 2: are gonna think that their stream is messed up. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I will. I don't think they should scare people like that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was totally convinced. I was like, and I
Speaker 6: was like, no, what is going on? This is the
Speaker 6: high spot or something's big happening, and now I got
Speaker 6: to try to rewind or something. So I'd like, yeah, anyways,
Speaker 6: so I'm I'm probably not alone in that. I'll just
Speaker 6: give my my couple of thoughts, and I have a
Speaker 6: question here. So I'd listened to the live past from
Speaker 6: Thursday and I think it was I don't know who
Speaker 6: it was, one of you guys, I'll say both of
Speaker 6: you came up the idea that Foley's appearance on Raw
Speaker 6: was was maybe a prelude to some type of a
Speaker 6: high spot or an attempt to you know, his off
Speaker 6: the top shelf. It was good, obviously, that's for me,
Speaker 6: that was the high spot of the match. But but
Speaker 6: when they realized, you know, that the match quote unquote
Speaker 6: hadn't started, that was kind of like, well, what was
Speaker 6: the point of that? I mean that that should have
Speaker 6: maybe gone outside of the for me, it would have
Speaker 6: been better had they started the match inside, didn't gone
Speaker 6: outside and done that that and then it seemed like
Speaker 6: maybe it ended and then gone back in. I don't
Speaker 6: know that that would that would have been interesting. Sure,
Speaker 6: I'll probably take some heat from Sergeant or or some
Speaker 6: other folks, but I thought best match with Sina Orton,
Speaker 6: just just because, I'll tell you, I hated that finish.
Speaker 6: I hated the finish or the rawlins Ambrose match. It
Speaker 6: made no sense. As Greg mentioned, you know, if bray
Speaker 6: Wyatt's goal is just to come out of nowhere and
Speaker 6: start feuds with people just because with no background, that's
Speaker 6: a real turn off. I mean, the pay per view
Speaker 6: was really good overall. That was probably one of the
Speaker 6: worst parts of it. I thought, I think that my
Speaker 6: thoughts on this or that that they are actually now
Speaker 6: almost in concrete with Rains against Lesnar at Mania. I
Speaker 6: think they're gonna have either a survivor or at the rumble,
Speaker 6: it's gonna be Sena versus Lesnar. I think Lusner's gonna
Speaker 6: win that match, and I think they are now back
Speaker 6: into the Rains mode. That's just my opinion. I hope
Speaker 6: I'm wrong, actually, And then The last thing I'll say
Speaker 6: is I think the second best match of the night,
Speaker 6: and I'm not joking here. I think you got to
Speaker 6: give it up for the Bella twins. Nicki and Brie
Speaker 6: put on a heck of a match. I mean it
Speaker 6: was really good. I think Page and AJ actually looked
Speaker 6: a step or two behind them. I'd like to hear
Speaker 6: your thoughts on that, but overall on a ten point
Speaker 6: scale and give it a six and a half to
Speaker 6: oh seven. I thought it was a pretty good pay
Speaker 6: per view with except for one of the screw screw
Speaker 6: aut finishes with the I don't know if it was
Speaker 6: Star Wars they were trying to do with the hologram
Speaker 6: and the smoke or what, but it didn't work that well. Yeah,
Speaker 6: the smoke came up and I saw the hologram. I'm like,
Speaker 6: is that supposed to be very white? Because that's the
Speaker 6: only thing I mean, obviously a lantern. But yeah, I
Speaker 6: didn't like to finish, if you can tell. But other
Speaker 6: than that, I'll shut up and let you guys come.
Speaker 6: I want to hear your thoughts though on the bell
Speaker 6: match because I really actually enjoyed that.
Speaker 2: Thank you, guys. I could call that I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Good kickoff.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well let's start.
Speaker 2: I'm like gonna mention the undercard. I think that again
Speaker 2: that deserves some attention. I would have put the the
Speaker 2: Intercontinental title two or three falls match, as then I
Speaker 2: agreed I had seen Orton as a number one match
Speaker 2: of the show. I would put Greg the Intercontinental title
Speaker 2: match number two. Ambrose Rowlands that. Yeah, that's there's so
Speaker 2: much there going on, a lot of breakdown. We'll get
Speaker 2: to that in a second. But yeah, I mean, what
Speaker 2: do you mean about the Bellows match? Was? You know,
Speaker 2: we don't often see a good brother versus brother, you know,
Speaker 2: the rare sister vers sister match. You know, Jeff and
Speaker 2: Matt haven't always had good singles matches against each other.
Speaker 2: They have to play one or two, but we all see
Speaker 2: that too often. Booker and stev Ray, what were your
Speaker 2: thoughts on that match? And I think it was Elliot
Speaker 2: at the very least the surprise of the of the night.
Speaker 3: I was really impressed, in fact, to have a match.
Speaker 3: I tweeted that I was surprised at how well timed
Speaker 3: the match was, as far as the timing between the
Speaker 3: two and how crisp and tight a lot of the
Speaker 3: moves were because in some of the divas matches you
Speaker 3: see a lot of light between moves and it's not
Speaker 3: very hard hitting, I guess, is what I would say.
Speaker 3: But they did a really good job with both of
Speaker 3: those things, and both of those boxes were checked for me,
Speaker 3: and that surprised me. So I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: working together because they're sisters, that they're more comfortable with
Speaker 3: each other or what it was, but I was very
Speaker 3: impressed as well with that match.
Speaker 8: Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
Speaker 8: will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress
Speaker 8: Paradise at Pine Torch, VIP as we mask on the
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Speaker 2: It is also Adam mentioned in the Hell of the
Speaker 2: Cell match. Yeah. They started they started the match brawling
Speaker 2: on top of the sell. Yeah, and there was some
Speaker 2: of that awkwardness of you know, the crowds booing because
Speaker 2: they folk, you know, they're taking the bait that all
Speaker 2: this match isn't gonna happen. Uh, they might have also
Speaker 2: been booing it the match had happened, the spot happened,
Speaker 2: and then their t's in the match isn't even gonna conclude.
Speaker 2: So either way, the crowd probably gonna was probably gonna
Speaker 2: boo that sequence as people are being rolled out of
Speaker 2: the ring or ring side. Greg Hindsight was out the
Speaker 2: right way to go starting the match on the cell,
Speaker 2: having the big bump. Then you kind of go around
Speaker 2: the cell and then you send it back in the
Speaker 2: ring and then the bell sound or should they have
Speaker 2: done the you know, as Adams suggests, they have the
Speaker 2: match go to the top spot, okay, if the match
Speaker 2: going to continue, and then they make the way back in.
Speaker 2: It does in hindsight, which you think was the best
Speaker 2: way to go about it.
Speaker 3: I think the way they did it was the better
Speaker 3: way to go about it.
Speaker 6: And here's why.
Speaker 3: The whole point of the hell in cell structure is
Speaker 3: to keep these guys in it and in theory keep
Speaker 3: others out unless they're hiding under the ring. So to
Speaker 3: start the match on top and get the big bump
Speaker 3: in and then move into the body of the match
Speaker 3: inside the cage, I think was the right way to go.
Speaker 3: I don't think you want to start the match inside
Speaker 3: the case. It then expose the cell gimmick by going
Speaker 3: outside of the cell and on top of the cage
Speaker 3: and then coming back in. I think that you know,
Speaker 3: we talk about before another Hell on a Cell matches
Speaker 3: when this stuff happens, about how they're ruining the concept
Speaker 3: and the whole gimmick of the hell on a Cell
Speaker 3: cage when it's proven it's so easy to get in
Speaker 3: and out of the cell. So once they were into
Speaker 3: the cell and the door was locked, I'm glad that
Speaker 3: they stayed in there.
Speaker 2: And that kind of leads to the bray Wyatt topic
Speaker 2: of you know, he shows up inside the cell. Are
Speaker 2: they able to get away with that, because it is
Speaker 2: sort of the mystical, sort of a supernatural type character
Speaker 2: that going with bray Wyatt, where you can kind of
Speaker 2: be engrossed and the the the the smoking mirrors or
Speaker 2: the smoking lantern, the weird hologram. I don't, Yeah, like Adams,
Speaker 2: I don't know what they're going for as far as
Speaker 2: the image goes, I didn't. I never could tell what
Speaker 2: the image was. Is that excusable because it is bray
Speaker 2: white or is that still kind of a little bit
Speaker 2: of hokey, a little bit too hokey.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't use the word excusable. I'd say it's more
Speaker 3: explainable because of bray Wyatt and how he has a
Speaker 3: tendency of when the lights go out, to just appear
Speaker 3: out of nowhere. So it fits the character to be
Speaker 3: able to do that, and it does add some mysticism
Speaker 3: and some mysteriousness to the character to have him do that,
Speaker 3: and I think that's what they're going with or with
Speaker 3: that character. So it made more sense for bray Wyatt
Speaker 3: to do it as opposed to almost anyone else on
Speaker 3: the roster. If that had happened with them, then I
Speaker 3: can see the complaint. But with bray Wyatt, it's something
Speaker 3: we've sort of come to expect from him and it's
Speaker 3: part of his character.
Speaker 2: I hesitated to go here because last month I talked
Speaker 2: a lot about what they might do on TV coming
Speaker 2: out about what I got it right on Ambrose and c.
Speaker 2: You know, it's sort of form an alliance against Rawlins
Speaker 2: and the authority they The other big tought I had
Speaker 2: was there'd be a big follow up on brock Lester
Speaker 2: Paul Hayman against Rawlins. You know, the cash in, you
Speaker 2: know what, you know the way that MAINVN and Night
Speaker 2: Champions ended. They really just sort of brushed that aside
Speaker 2: in a major way after the pay per views. So
Speaker 2: I hesitated to go here. But bray Wyatt the authority,
Speaker 2: is there a link? Are they going to explain a link?
Speaker 2: Is it just gonna be bray Wyatt's on his own.
Speaker 2: It just kind of just so happened that he cost
Speaker 2: Dean Ambrose a match that benefited seth Rawlins and slashed
Speaker 2: the authority. Uh do they go there? Greg? Do you
Speaker 2: think if you're gonna put on your prediction cap, I
Speaker 2: will too. I'm gonna say no. I think they're just
Speaker 2: gonna have these sort of bees standalone. But what do
Speaker 2: you think, Greg? Any chance they kind of link up
Speaker 2: Bray with the authority slash Rawlins.
Speaker 3: I don't think they should. It wouldn't be beyond my
Speaker 3: imagination to think the wwe would do that. But the
Speaker 3: authority in the Wyats seemed to be living in two
Speaker 3: separate worlds. And I think we've talked about those separate
Speaker 3: worlds before, you know, when Sampunk was champion and then
Speaker 3: John Cena was still made of any pay per views
Speaker 3: against John Laureniis, and even more recently we've had, you know,
Speaker 3: certain feuds taking place almost in a different world than
Speaker 3: other feuds are. And I think you've got to keep
Speaker 3: the Wyats separate from the authority. I don't think them
Speaker 3: being in bed together makes any sense from any sort
Speaker 3: of angle. I'm sure WW we could try, but I
Speaker 3: think it would be best to keep those two way
Speaker 3: far apart from each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just imagine. You know, first of all,
Speaker 2: they got to explain why Bray is going after Dean,
Speaker 2: and then if they then try to explain, Okay, well
Speaker 2: Bray it was benefiting the authority, then you just kind
Speaker 2: of get lost. Yeah, it's that might get a little messy.
Speaker 2: I'm with you on that.
Speaker 3: Plus you'll have to go through you'll have to sit
Speaker 3: through reading interviews with Stephanie McMahon talking about how Bray
Speaker 3: Wyatt loves to play this heel character on TV and
Speaker 3: and how this physical character really really makes him smile
Speaker 3: behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: So you don't want that, No, I don't know. No,
Speaker 2: yeah that that that's your cat's only idea of that happening. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just no, no. And in the last ye adam mitched
Speaker 2: was Roman rings. Do you get more assurance or or
Speaker 2: I guess confidence or more more? I guess more evidence
Speaker 2: is the more evidence that they're going to go in
Speaker 2: a direction of Brock and Rains of WrestleMania with perhaps
Speaker 2: as there was in mentioned the top rollin an Ambrose,
Speaker 2: maybe in the separate WrestleMania match.
Speaker 3: I don't think tonight's pate for view results will have
Speaker 3: swayed me either, way, I don't think there is enough
Speaker 3: on this show to really make me jump up and say, okay,
Speaker 3: that right there happening has convinced me that they're going
Speaker 3: all in on Roman reigns. I think it's as much
Speaker 3: far of staying the course and playing it safe and
Speaker 3: leaving options open. I certainly don't think any door has
Speaker 3: closed right now the way WWE is booked, whether they
Speaker 3: want to go all in with Rains or whether they're
Speaker 3: having second thoughts, I don't think either of those two
Speaker 3: avenues is really obvious coming out of this pay per view.
Speaker 3: So in my opinion, I've seen nothing to make me
Speaker 3: believe that they're not going to continue with the push
Speaker 3: of Roman range when he gets back to eventually headline
Speaker 3: WrestleMania against brock Lesner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it all depends on, like you said,
Speaker 2: where they are, And then I would add, what's Rain's health?
Speaker 2: You know, when is he able to come back? And
Speaker 2: we don't know the answer to that yet, so we'll see.
Speaker 2: But I feel pretty good about Ronind's Ambrose being in
Speaker 2: a WrestleMania Mania bit and now, obviously a lot of
Speaker 2: things can change in between now and then, but I
Speaker 2: got down in Pennsylvan for mania now based on what
Speaker 2: happened tonight. But we'll see what happens Adam, good call,
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Let's go to our next caller, six o
Speaker 2: one area Code're up next six o one. Please set
Speaker 2: your name where you're going from.
Speaker 7: This is.
Speaker 9: God, This is Sorge, Sorrge.
Speaker 2: You sound despondent.
Speaker 9: I told you I made myself promise I would. I
Speaker 9: really didn't here tonight. I just happened to click on
Speaker 9: the last I let my daughter had a TV. I
Speaker 9: clicked on the last few minutes. I said, I don't
Speaker 9: feel like I said, said, oh great man, I'm piped
Speaker 9: up Dean Ambrose and Steth. I was doing the main
Speaker 9: event and then, like the guy called it early, I
Speaker 9: was like, what is this start? The lights went out
Speaker 9: and I'm like, uh, fifteen seconds later, Hello, what's on on?
Speaker 9: Then I saw the little Jedi Howler Graham. I'm gonna say, Okay,
Speaker 9: Bread White Great seth Rawlins is gonna win this one.
Speaker 9: I'm like, oh, well, but at least I got my
Speaker 9: main event out of them. Then I went online to
Speaker 9: I'm out that the since we on PG, the y'all
Speaker 9: a mighty super sayt sena kickout it to eat sleep,
Speaker 9: he has to win, repeat, is going to face. Hey,
Speaker 9: we gotta deal with him again. Yeah, and after I
Speaker 9: hang up, I'm gonna get kick out. What greed he
Speaker 9: says about this. But yeah, really a third time, I
Speaker 9: would rather see Rock often three over senor getting another
Speaker 9: shot bam head on wall. I'm done often leave and
Speaker 9: I'm fain to watch some real wrestling called Miss South
Speaker 9: on YouTube the current Wrestling PWG. I'm out see you
Speaker 9: guys Thursday, have fun. I'm done five all.
Speaker 2: Right, George, I think I think we got how how
Speaker 2: Sarage feels about it. And I mean it's funny because
Speaker 2: you know Ben Tucker at b Tucker Torch on Twitter,
Speaker 2: he goes all the pay per views. He had a
Speaker 2: funny tweet earlier than day where he was just kind
Speaker 2: of standing in the line going in the building and
Speaker 2: someone around I'm assuming a casual fan and said to
Speaker 2: somebody else, like, you know, I hope ran New Orton
Speaker 2: wins so we don't have to watch scene in brock
Speaker 2: Lesser again. And so they they kind of baby faced
Speaker 2: Orton to a certain percentage of the audience tonight. It
Speaker 2: was a good match. It's just you know, SNA one
Speaker 2: that's gonna upset a lot of people, also gonna make
Speaker 2: a lot of people happy. It just sort of depends
Speaker 2: on whether you're a seen a fan or not so
Speaker 2: Greg your thoughts. You don't see a wins, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be another round of seeing them. Brock. We don't know
Speaker 2: yet if it's gonna be Survivor series next month. We
Speaker 2: don't know if it's gonna be TLCN Decend. We don't
Speaker 2: know it's gonna be Roll Romeo Jamu. We just don't
Speaker 2: know the timeline yet. They didn't say the next pay
Speaker 2: per view will be the title match. I presume next
Speaker 2: month is friber series.
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Speaker 2: Your take on Charge's phone call about Sena.
Speaker 3: Sena and Lesner, Hey, it doesn't really thrill me either.
Speaker 3: I think Orton versus Lessler at least would have been different,
Speaker 3: and Orton does feel like he has a certain amount
Speaker 3: of momentum behind him right now and that would lead
Speaker 3: to the Orton babyface turn that has been predicted now
Speaker 3: for a while. But you have to think back to
Speaker 3: Knighted Champions and Sina was basically screwed out of the
Speaker 3: title against Lesner and had to fight again to get
Speaker 3: a rematch when theoretically one should have been granted for
Speaker 3: him in the first place. And we talked to the
Speaker 3: Knight of Champions post show James about how we kind
Speaker 3: of just assumed that Sina versus Lesnar three was gonna
Speaker 3: happen at this pay per view and it didn't. So
Speaker 3: I think as far as how the story has been
Speaker 3: told so far, Sena is deserving of a third shot, but.
Speaker 2: I agree with.
Speaker 3: Sarge that it doesn't really thrill me, even though the
Speaker 3: matches have been good. Orton versus Lessner again at least
Speaker 3: would be different. And I don't know why Sarge brought
Speaker 3: up the straw man argument of kind of wanting to
Speaker 3: see Rock Austin three over, you know whatever.
Speaker 10: The other match was.
Speaker 3: No one's debating Rock Austin three. If we were offered,
Speaker 3: then of course we'd all take it, But that's not
Speaker 3: even in the argument right now, So I don't know
Speaker 3: why he brought that up. But yeah, storyline, whies it
Speaker 3: make sense for Seena to get the opportunity again at Lesnar.
Speaker 3: I don't know what story they're gonna tell at this point,
Speaker 3: because they've they've already told the story of overcoming the
Speaker 3: odds and overcoming the beatdown he suffered at SummerSlam at
Speaker 3: the hands of Lesner to try to get back to
Speaker 3: the mountaintop at Night of Champions, you know, do they
Speaker 3: kind of pick up where they lost off there and
Speaker 3: start telling the story? And you know, like you mentioned,
Speaker 3: a lot of it depends on when Lesner versus Scena
Speaker 3: is gonna happen. If it doesn't even happen till the
Speaker 3: Royal rumbo. We don't have to worry about it for.
Speaker 2: A few months.
Speaker 3: So what do they do in the meantime Withsina exactly?
Speaker 2: Yeah, does he get the match of Rawlins? You know
Speaker 2: that he was trying to get at this pay per view,
Speaker 2: you know, but Ambrose got the shot at Rowinds. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, if they don't have, but then that would
Speaker 2: kind of throw off what eye into, which is Rolins
Speaker 2: and Orton as the next pay review. I like to me, Greg,
Speaker 2: the card I have in my head is a Survivor series.
Speaker 2: Its scene verus Bronck. It's Orton versus Rolins, is Ambrose
Speaker 2: versus Bray? Whyte as your top three? That's a I
Speaker 2: mean to me, it's a pretty compelling card. Even if
Speaker 2: you're kind of tired of seeing and Brock, those two
Speaker 2: matches underneath are really compelling because they're new and different.
Speaker 2: If that's the way they goes, they don't go that way.
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not saying that whatever they come up
Speaker 2: was gonna be worse when I come up with. I
Speaker 2: just I don't know what else they would do base
Speaker 2: what happened tonight. They would be compelling and you know,
Speaker 2: get more compelling than what they set up tonight. Uh
Speaker 2: if you look at those if those three matches happen
Speaker 2: next month, Greg on paper, does that make it a
Speaker 2: little bit more digestible that we're gonna get another scene
Speaker 2: and versus Brock match.
Speaker 6: I think so.
Speaker 3: And to have a top three matches that strong is
Speaker 3: more than what we've seen from WWE pay per reviews
Speaker 3: in the past, where it's either been a one or
Speaker 3: a two match show. So we have a card three
Speaker 3: deep like that, and then still have the undercargo still
Speaker 3: out with probably strong secondary title matches. I think that's
Speaker 3: a good support base for those three top matches.
Speaker 2: Just past midnight Eastern eleven o'clock Central here on the
Speaker 2: PW Torch Live cast following Hell in a Cell, I'm
Speaker 2: your host, Torches Senator James Caldwell. I'm joined by Torch
Speaker 2: calling this Greg Parks and we're taking your phone calls
Speaker 2: at six four, six, seven, nine to eight. Let's go
Speaker 2: some more phone calls. Next up is the six to
Speaker 2: three zero area code. Welcome to show, six to three, Hope,
Speaker 2: please set your name where you going from?
Speaker 10: Hey, this is Craig from Chicago.
Speaker 2: Hey, Craig, what's you mine today?
Speaker 10: Okay, well, my bears got whooked today and then I
Speaker 10: just had my intelligence insulted for like three hours tonight
Speaker 10: watching this pay per view. So I'm gonna rant, and
Speaker 10: I'm gonna rant. Good. All right, First of all, go,
Speaker 10: I'm SEENO should be nowhere, nowhere near the world title anymore.
Speaker 7: Nowhere.
Speaker 10: I don't care how much merchandise he sells, which, by
Speaker 10: the way, it's not that hard to do. When your
Speaker 10: merchandise it's available out numbers next guy's thirty to one. Okay, Now,
Speaker 10: Dean Ambros seth balance. That was a star making match
Speaker 10: ruined by this ridiculous bray Wyatt thing. And let me
Speaker 10: tell you something. It wasn't that long ago. Bray Wyatt
Speaker 10: was made to look like a bungling idiot by guess who,
Speaker 10: John Cena. So you know it's just and so on
Speaker 10: my intelligence and had these two hell and the cell
Speaker 10: matches with all this stuff going on there, the weapons
Speaker 10: and everything, and nobody walks out with a scratch on them.
Speaker 10: Come on, you know this is this is like nineteen
Speaker 10: ninety five garbage. Now, I mean, I'm paying for this crap.
Speaker 10: You know, if they don't get their act together, I'll
Speaker 10: just watch it illegally on the internet again like I
Speaker 10: was doing before. I mean, it's all over the place,
Speaker 10: it's free. All the programming on there sucks anyways, so
Speaker 10: you know. But I mean, I love pro wrestling. I'm
Speaker 10: not gonna walk away from it though. That's the thing.
Speaker 10: This is what I love watching. I've been watching it
Speaker 10: for thirty five years. Give me something that I can
Speaker 10: that I can enjoy, you know. I mean, Jesus Christ,
Speaker 10: that you can hit a star making match tonight ruined
Speaker 10: by this ridiculous finish that made no sense by a
Speaker 10: guy that was made to look like a bumbling idiot.
Speaker 10: I I just don't get it. Somebody, somebody's not There's
Speaker 10: nothing going on there in their heads there when they're
Speaker 10: writing this stuff out.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Exactly any redeeming quality on the show tonight, any any
Speaker 2: undercard matches, anything else that you found.
Speaker 10: The main event was great. It was great despite the
Speaker 10: lack of realism. It was still great until until the end.
Speaker 10: I mean, Dan Ambrose is your guy. You got they
Speaker 10: got to that's the guy they should run with. I mean,
Speaker 10: the fans are just there. You can tell they're dying
Speaker 10: to just exploding that arena and and sheer like beyond belief,
Speaker 10: but they just won't scramp the locket to anybody not
Speaker 10: named Sena. I don't get it. It makes no sense, you know,
Speaker 10: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, real quick. Let me go on that point,
Speaker 2: because I've had this thought in my head's in the
Speaker 2: pay per view into Greg, and I wanted to get
Speaker 2: your thoughts on it. We seem to be in another
Speaker 2: period of the delayed gratification. Last year it was Daniel Bryan.
Speaker 2: You know, he was cut off, He was cut off.
Speaker 2: He was cut off over and over and over and
Speaker 2: over again, and the steuter of Orton trying to get
Speaker 2: the title fu on the guy to WrestleMania big moment,
Speaker 2: and then of course Brian gets injured right afterward. Or
Speaker 2: here he kind of already was injured, but then he
Speaker 2: got to the point where he couldn't wrestle after WrestleMania.
Speaker 2: Do you get the sense of doing the same thing
Speaker 2: here with Ambrose, Greg, where they're delaying the gratification of
Speaker 2: Ambrose finally beating Rollins and getting revenge on the shield breakup,
Speaker 2: and are they is it working if you, if you're optimisty,
Speaker 2: they're gonna get to a point where Ambrose gets his
Speaker 2: you know, his big moment at the big finally he
Speaker 2: finally won. Assuming they get there with this, it feels
Speaker 2: like the same thing as Brian last year in some ways.
Speaker 2: Is it working or are they risking not seizing a
Speaker 2: moment where the crowd, as Craig said, they're ready to
Speaker 2: get behind Ambrose in a big way.
Speaker 3: Well, I think they're definitely risking something by holding off
Speaker 3: having Ambrose get the victory. The difference between Ambrose and
Speaker 3: Daniel Brian, of course, is that Daniel Brian is going
Speaker 3: after the WWE World title. He's going after something tangible
Speaker 3: in addition to getting his big win. He wanted the
Speaker 3: title in that big moment with Dean Ambrose. It's not
Speaker 3: a much smaller level. It's just we want him to
Speaker 3: get a win over Seth Rollins, who's not even really
Speaker 3: a main event heel. You know, he's I guess he
Speaker 3: proved me wrong tonight.
Speaker 2: He wasn't main event heel tonight.
Speaker 3: But you know, when you look at over the long haul,
Speaker 3: he's an upper midcard heel. Okay, he's just breaking through
Speaker 3: right now. But he could just as easily get bumped
Speaker 3: down when this is over, or he's not sort of
Speaker 3: a made man yet. I don't think. And you know,
Speaker 3: if you disagree with me, that's that's fine. I can
Speaker 3: see the other side of the coin too. But you know,
Speaker 3: it's Dean Ambrose getting a win over Seth Rollins. That's
Speaker 3: a lot different than finally breaking through and getting the
Speaker 3: WWE world title. So yeah, and when you when you
Speaker 3: see stuff like we saw this past week with the mannequin,
Speaker 3: it makes you think WW is trying a little too
Speaker 3: hard or maybe running out of good ideas what to do.
Speaker 3: And that really makes you think, oh boy, if they're
Speaker 3: going to keep delaying this gratification, what are they going
Speaker 3: to keep coming up with to the top this stuff
Speaker 3: every week on TV? So you you start to really
Speaker 3: worry about when Ambrose does get to win, is it
Speaker 3: going to mean anything.
Speaker 11: Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
Speaker 11: relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
Speaker 11: your passion.
Speaker 12: Do you want to be topped off the ledge after
Speaker 12: a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
Speaker 12: they thinking?
Speaker 11: Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
Speaker 11: is doing right and what they could do to improve.
Speaker 12: Then join me Joel and me Greg for the All
Speaker 12: of THEE Conversation Club every Friday on the PW torch
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Speaker 2: And you've also got the hurdle of let's assume Rolinson.
Speaker 2: Let's say Rowlinson and bray Wyatt have a match the
Speaker 2: next pay per view. I'm sorry, Ambrose and bray wy
Speaker 2: have a match the next paper view. So you've got
Speaker 2: Ambrose who really needs to win, and you've got bray Wyatt, who,
Speaker 2: as Craig said, I mean he was made to look
Speaker 2: pretty weak in the especially the last time I really
Speaker 2: saw bray on television, which was, Hey, John Can just
Speaker 2: got squashed at SummerSlam, Craph, we need to make Steal
Speaker 2: really strong on TV, Like now, let's rush through this
Speaker 2: and let's have him squashed bray Wyatt. Oh, that makes
Speaker 2: a lot of sense, you know. So that was the
Speaker 2: last time I really saw Bray and relevant position. Let's
Speaker 2: boom off TV for about a month and a half,
Speaker 2: brought it back here. You really can't have Bray lose
Speaker 2: his first major match since coming back and in the
Speaker 2: last segment, last moment of a pay per view that's
Speaker 2: you know, maybe an angle here, So you kind of
Speaker 2: run the risk if yeah, lose momentarly either Ambrose or
Speaker 2: bray Wyan unless you have another non finish. Uh so
Speaker 2: great hypothetically we haven't any build up obviously, but right
Speaker 2: now Ambrose bray Witan, what would you do with the
Speaker 2: booking of that match if that would have happened in
Speaker 2: Survivor series.
Speaker 3: I would do See this is the time use a
Speaker 3: Survivor's series. He's eliminate tion of style match. Have Ray
Speaker 3: White is one of the captains, to have Dean Ambrose
Speaker 3: as one of the captains. That way you can delay
Speaker 3: that one on one match and delay rather than putting
Speaker 3: on one matches Survivor series where you have to come
Speaker 3: up with a creative finish where nobody wins and nobody loses,
Speaker 3: you just do them all time an tag match and
Speaker 3: you can sort of get away with it there and
Speaker 3: then delay the actual one on one match till later on.
Speaker 3: But Ray's a guy who he can lose, but he's
Speaker 3: so into that character, and that character is so different
Speaker 3: and it is so gripping to a large portion of
Speaker 3: the fan base. He's not a guy who loses much
Speaker 3: by losing one, two, three, I don't think. And that's
Speaker 3: what he has going for him.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: That's not to say I think Deana Ambrosse is going
Speaker 3: to beat him in their first pay per view encounter.
Speaker 12: But.
Speaker 3: He can always get that heat back with a stare
Speaker 3: or you know, the mic works that he does so well.
Speaker 3: I'm not as concerned about that as someone who's maybe
Speaker 3: tenuous in their footing and who is just starting to
Speaker 3: get over and you know who, who needs some wins
Speaker 3: to be taken seriously in the eyes of fans. I think,
Speaker 3: to a certain extent, Dean Ambrose is there too, because
Speaker 3: the fans are gonna He's got that persona, he's got
Speaker 3: that aura about him that fans want to follow, and
Speaker 3: fans hang on every word he says. So I don't
Speaker 3: think he loses a lot by losing either. So I
Speaker 3: think they're both in good situations. I think a guy
Speaker 3: like Seth Rollins might be the opposite of that, where
Speaker 3: he needs some wins to really build up that credibility.
Speaker 3: He's not there yet to the point where he can
Speaker 3: start taking losses and recover from the from them and quickly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great comparison Bray and Seth Rollins. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think you're exactly right. Bray can he can take
Speaker 2: a loss and then like five seconds later you're like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, I'm scared, you know, because he can do
Speaker 2: like you say, you can do the look, he can
Speaker 2: do some magic show thing that they can really hype
Speaker 2: and make it seem like it's a big deal and
Speaker 2: you kind of forgot that Ambrose won, but Ambrose still won.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great contrast between the two. And you
Speaker 2: mentioned you know, maybe some heels who were on you know,
Speaker 2: sort of unsettling footing, they were a little bit shaky.
Speaker 2: It made me think about to Sorrow. To Sorrow, Greg
Speaker 2: lost clean sweep to Doves Nigger, but they gave Cin
Speaker 2: Sorrow a lot of offense. They gave him that memorable
Speaker 2: probably the spot of the night, the the sort of
Speaker 2: the the power lifts superplex from the second rope on
Speaker 2: ziggla just really nice move. Did he lose a lot?
Speaker 2: Did he lose not that much? Was he about the
Speaker 2: same as coming into the show? How do you feel
Speaker 2: about Sosorrow coming out of this lose, you know, lost
Speaker 2: two falls, had all of the offense, did not get
Speaker 2: the title? How do you balance all that?
Speaker 3: Sorrow didn't have a lot to lose here because he
Speaker 3: hadn't really been booked very well and so long he's
Speaker 3: the guy who could take the loss, not because he
Speaker 3: can recover quickly, but because he hadn't been built up
Speaker 3: much at all. So when you look at it from
Speaker 3: that perspective, I liked the booking of Ziggler winning two
Speaker 3: falls because Ziggler is a guy now, instead of the
Speaker 3: fifty to fifty booking where one guy wins a fall,
Speaker 3: the other guy wins the fall and then you know
Speaker 3: it's a slip out of an NFL finished, so no
Speaker 3: one goes over. They put Ziggler over pretty strongly here,
Speaker 3: having him win two falls. As much as I like Cesorrow,
Speaker 3: I liked the Wwe had the balls to put Ziggler
Speaker 3: over in two straight falls and really not just put
Speaker 3: him over by having him win, but really putting him over,
Speaker 3: and you know, not a star making performance. Or anything,
Speaker 3: but it's one that he can build on. It's a
Speaker 3: building block for Dolph Ziggler at this point if WWE
Speaker 3: chooses to see it that way. But it's an opportunity
Speaker 3: for him now because he did so decisively beat Cesorrow
Speaker 3: in this two out of three falls match, that he
Speaker 3: can use that as a stepping stone, uh in the
Speaker 3: future weeks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I agree with you. I just hope
Speaker 2: they don't come out of Raw tomorrow and have him
Speaker 2: lose non title to somebody, you know, just w bar
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have somehow some Sorrow gets a title rematch
Speaker 3: tomorrow and wins the title and it's like, well that
Speaker 3: was for.
Speaker 2: Not and they were like, oh, I'm still up two
Speaker 2: to one falls in the last twenty four hours, you
Speaker 2: know exactly.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like, how how could you now We're
Speaker 3: getting after w W for something they haven't even done yet,
Speaker 3: but it would like to Yeah, he gives to Sorrow
Speaker 3: a rematch. It's like, how did we get a rematch?
Speaker 3: He lost two falls to zero. It's very decisive. There's
Speaker 3: no question that he lost.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, You're like, uh, we need a title match and
Speaker 2: there's nobody else in the division. So Sorrow, I wa'n't
Speaker 2: you get in there get a title shot? Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: with you. Yeah, so Sorrow should be out of the
Speaker 2: running and what you know, whatever that means, because they
Speaker 2: don't really they don't really have any rankings. They don't
Speaker 2: really hype some sort of you know, title chase. Maybe
Speaker 2: you know, maybe once a year that have a tournament.
Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, so I'm with you. I think the
Speaker 2: Sorrow goes to the back of the fictional line and
Speaker 2: somebody else gets in the line for Siglar, whether whether
Speaker 2: it is a seth Rollins or somebody else along that uh,
Speaker 2: that level. It just it's so hard to find people
Speaker 2: at that level who aren't already in separate programs. So well,
Speaker 2: we'll see what happened with I just don't I don't
Speaker 2: know what happens now because it wasn't clean sweep, and
Speaker 2: you know, I don't see any way that so Sorrow
Speaker 2: gets another title shot soon. It's just logically that shouldn't happen,
Speaker 2: So we'll see. But it was a good night for Sigular.
Speaker 2: It definitely was correct. Picture of the phone call. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Good to hear from you. Let's go to our next
Speaker 2: phone call, it's a seven seven three area code. Welcome
Speaker 2: to show seven seven three. Please see your name where
Speaker 2: you're going from?
Speaker 3: Wyat?
Speaker 2: I thought shot that was by White Yeah, with a
Speaker 2: magic tree? Bors? Are you there? Maybe that's Boris's contribution,
Speaker 2: is the sound effects? Bors? That are you their bors?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 4: Boys?
Speaker 2: If you really are trying to call, I'm not just
Speaker 2: going to sound effects, hang up and call back inn.
Speaker 2: I'll put you back on after the next phone call.
Speaker 2: So if that was just what it was calling in for,
Speaker 2: I thought that was pretty funny, So I'll get props
Speaker 2: to Boris for that. The night right there, short, sweet
Speaker 2: and with a good sound effect. I know the main
Speaker 2: even finders, so I'll buy that.
Speaker 1: Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or AW
Speaker 1: Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
Speaker 1: thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
Speaker 1: to address or a question for us. Wade Kellor Podcast
Speaker 1: at pw torch dot com, Wadekellor Podcast at pewtorch dot com.
Speaker 1: If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
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Speaker 2: Next Up, three one four, Eric Code, Welcome to show
Speaker 2: three one four. Please set your name. Where you're going from.
Speaker 7: From Saint Louis. What's up, guys?
Speaker 2: Damn do you have any sound effects for us?
Speaker 7: No? No sound effect. The only time effect on this
Speaker 7: wa network in the background. Well, actually I got it
Speaker 7: on mute this so I can talk to you guys.
Speaker 7: Check it out. Sounds good d on the self. I
Speaker 7: did see it tonight. Uh okay, you know I've obviously
Speaker 7: wasn't going into it with high expectations. I mean, yes,
Speaker 7: I do believe the undercard did deliver. I thought Ziggler
Speaker 7: and uh Sizarro was a great match. I actually thought
Speaker 7: Big Showan Russev was kind of cool. I actually thought
Speaker 7: that Mark Henry was gonna come out. I was like,
Speaker 7: oh crap, it's gonna be a heel turned. But we
Speaker 7: didn't get that tonight and further them and of course
Speaker 7: seeing the Orton, of course, who can. I did like
Speaker 7: that whole little that little sign that they pointed to
Speaker 7: before Randy made his ring entrance, enjoy seeing the versus
Speaker 7: Orton number one twenty three or something I did. It
Speaker 7: was it was hilarious. It's like, damn, they actually poking
Speaker 7: funded themselves because there's so many and I'll literally getting
Speaker 7: goll to try to have seen it Orton compared to
Speaker 7: all the great ribberies, not just some wa ae playing
Speaker 7: sports is history or you gotta be kidding me, right, okay,
Speaker 7: and so and then I'm gonna I'm gonna come.
Speaker 2: Back to Damn. I want to pause on those because
Speaker 2: those are some good points. One, yeah, I don't know
Speaker 2: if definitely realized what they were zooming in on, Like
Speaker 2: the directors say, oh yeah, enjoy seeing Orton, and they
Speaker 2: like missed the bottom line was like number one thirty
Speaker 2: two or with one twenty one, And I was like,
Speaker 2: do they realize they just zoomed in on a sign
Speaker 2: poking fund and how many time to do this match?
Speaker 2: I thought I found that hilarious.
Speaker 3: Uh, maybe maybe they thought this, maybe they thought the
Speaker 3: sign was not ironic at all, and that they really.
Speaker 2: Met Hey, I'm gonna.
Speaker 3: Enjoy Steena versus Our number one twenty three, Like, oh,
Speaker 3: here's a fan who really.
Speaker 2: Is excited to see this match again.
Speaker 7: Enjoy.
Speaker 2: You know what, they're in such a bubble, they might
Speaker 2: think that people were excited to see that match again.
Speaker 7: You know that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're right on Greg. And then the other
Speaker 2: point Damien brought up that I wouldn't mentioned, was I
Speaker 2: lost it? Yes, yeah, Mark Henry. Yes, so Mark Henry.
Speaker 2: I've been tweeting about this for like two pay per views, right,
Speaker 2: I thought Henry's gonna come out and cost the match.
Speaker 2: So I guess now they're just the point where they're
Speaker 2: having Henry. His presence is a distraction a Big Show,
Speaker 2: And to me, Greg is going to Italy one or
Speaker 2: two things. Either Big Show snaps gets fed up with
Speaker 2: Henry and blast him, or he feels like Big Show
Speaker 2: blames him for losing and Big Show has kind of
Speaker 2: passive aggressive about and then Henry eventually finally turns on him.
Speaker 2: How do you see this, Henry Big Show dynamic sort
Speaker 2: it out? And then on the Russo side of the coin,
Speaker 2: where's this thing going? Do we have a person in mind,
Speaker 2: either on the roster or not the roster, who eventually
Speaker 2: would take down Russov.
Speaker 3: I think it's gonna be John Cena WrestleMania. Well that's
Speaker 3: what I was gonna say. I don't know if they
Speaker 3: can stretch it out that far with Russev dominating that
Speaker 3: long without you know, trying to It's the same argument
Speaker 3: when Crimson was undefeated in TNA many moons ago, and
Speaker 3: he was on his undefeated streak and everybody was talking
Speaker 3: it up, and I'm thinking, Okay, why is he getting
Speaker 3: a title shot? If wins and losses are supposed to
Speaker 3: wins are supposed to earn you a title shot. Here's
Speaker 3: a guy who's undefeated and he's running for everybody. He's
Speaker 3: not getting a title shot. I think it would be
Speaker 3: difficult for Russ to keep going through all these big
Speaker 3: stars in WWE, and how do you explain him not
Speaker 3: getting a shot at the title with all these victories.
Speaker 3: So WrestleMania as where I guess, But I guess the
Speaker 3: next possibility, if not WrestleMania, would be Royal Rumble, Big
Speaker 3: Show and Mark Henry. I thought Mark Henry he'll turned too.
Speaker 3: But with Big Shows comments a few weeks ago about
Speaker 3: how he wants to do this alone and he wants
Speaker 3: Mark to kind of back off, and then Mark Henry
Speaker 3: coming out tonight and Big Show losing although he tapped.
Speaker 3: I think that could be the impetus for a Big
Speaker 3: Show too, as you said, become passive aggressive or maybe
Speaker 3: even turn heel. But it's still a toss up to me.
Speaker 3: I think it could really go either way. I think
Speaker 3: there's enough evidence on both sides to to argue and
Speaker 3: he'll turn for either man at this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder how long they're gonna stretch this out,
Speaker 2: you know, and then you know, Roussep, where do you
Speaker 2: go from? Like you said, he's one of these matches
Speaker 2: you think he's in line for a title shot. If
Speaker 2: that is the case, you know, does he go after Shamless,
Speaker 2: does he go after Dolls Ziggler? And if he does,
Speaker 2: if he win the title. I mean, I think we've
Speaker 2: all been kind of wait for him to go after
Speaker 2: the US title. That would be the next logical progression
Speaker 2: with the whole Rushia versus USA thing and shame Shamus
Speaker 2: the Irish Man defending the USA. I guess I have
Speaker 2: to figure that one out. But I just Uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I wonder where else they go with rosep until they
Speaker 2: get to if that's the case, Like you said, with
Speaker 2: Sina as a destination, that I mean, that makes the
Speaker 2: most sense in terms of how w usually books these
Speaker 2: sort of things. Maybe not, so I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 2: would have somebody else be the one who finally takes
Speaker 2: on Recev because that that that's probably true. But the
Speaker 2: way they book is that the conquering hero is John Cena.
Speaker 2: I am curious if they can make it all with
Speaker 2: wrestle may that'd be interesting, Greg, if they can.
Speaker 3: I think if they do, if they do what you
Speaker 3: suggested with Russev going after a secondary title and feuding
Speaker 3: with Shamus over the US title, for example, I think
Speaker 3: that would be a good way to stretch it out
Speaker 3: a few more months, because you've got Russev going after
Speaker 3: the title, then you've got him winning the title, then
Speaker 3: you've got him defending the title for a few months.
Speaker 3: But is he going to be wrestling John Cena as
Speaker 3: the US champion. He still have to be champion to
Speaker 3: fight John Cena because you don't want him to lose
Speaker 3: the title and lose a match before he goes against
Speaker 3: Sena but he would have to be US Champion facing Sena,
Speaker 3: which I don't know how that would work without the
Speaker 3: title on the line.
Speaker 7: I would assume.
Speaker 2: It might have been one of those things where they
Speaker 2: ignore the title. They acknowledge the Russev's US Champion, but
Speaker 2: they never way acknowledge that he's not defending the title,
Speaker 2: you know, like it's just it's almost like.
Speaker 3: It this is this isn't about the title. It's something
Speaker 3: It's about something much bigger.
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, yeah, that that yeah, something like that,
Speaker 2: we've seen that before. Yeah, but yeah, I kind of
Speaker 2: have that same picture if they do go to Mania
Speaker 2: and if it's see Nui verus rousselve, let's say, receive
Speaker 2: is the US Champion because they've got a kid building
Speaker 2: and building building. Yeah, that's kind of have the same picture.
Speaker 2: That's just sort of like it's there, but they don't
Speaker 2: really acknowledge it. Yeah. Uh dam man, I cut you
Speaker 2: off there. Continue on your question of comment.
Speaker 7: Oh, okay, no problem. I know you had to get
Speaker 7: that in, but also I wanted to just comment on,
Speaker 7: of course the finish. I mean, well, the whole Ambrose
Speaker 7: versus Violins match was a very good match, and I
Speaker 7: actually thought it was the match of the night. They
Speaker 7: actually did some really good spots, and then of course
Speaker 7: the finish chain. I really didn't understand everybody else has
Speaker 7: talked about that. I can just say that I didn't
Speaker 7: know what La was doing with that, and that's pretty
Speaker 7: much all I had got.
Speaker 2: Keep it up, all right, David, We're gonna talk to you.
Speaker 2: I hope you call it on Thursday. We'll talk to
Speaker 2: you again later on this week or sometime again before
Speaker 2: the next paper, if you appreciate the phone call.
Speaker 3: I got a question for you, if I can jump
Speaker 3: in first. Yeah, with his with as popular as Bray,
Speaker 3: why it is amongst a certain percentage of the fans.
Speaker 3: Are you surprised at how negative people have been about
Speaker 3: the finish to Rollins versus Ambrose, with why it getting involved,
Speaker 3: especially knowing that it's probably going to set up Whyatt
Speaker 3: versus Ambrose, which are two very popular wrestlers right now
Speaker 3: amongst that certain percentage of fans. Are you surprised at
Speaker 3: how negative the reaction has been to that.
Speaker 2: Slightly? Yeah, because Bray is such a fan favorite. I
Speaker 2: think that what's trump that is that that sense sort
Speaker 2: of that that w you know, the smoking mirrors, that
Speaker 2: sort of silliness, you know, that just being way over
Speaker 2: the top of the hologram, and I think that turned
Speaker 2: people off. And then I think people I think what
Speaker 2: people wanted to see more than Bray White in a
Speaker 2: cool moment, which again may have not been a cool
Speaker 2: moment because the Halo Graham thing, which was weird. I
Speaker 2: think people wanted to see Dan Ambrose beat Seth Rollins,
Speaker 2: or at least maybe not so much they want to
Speaker 2: see Dan Aubus be souther Owlands. They just wanted to
Speaker 2: see a finish to the match. You might have to
Speaker 2: debate which people wanted to see more finish or Ambrose winning.
Speaker 2: Kind of gets to another issue, but I think that
Speaker 2: the lack of a finish or the lack of Ambrose
Speaker 2: winning trumped anything that's, oh wow, you know, bray White's
Speaker 2: in a MANIMN situation cool. I think they were more
Speaker 2: annoyed by I think we were more annoyed by the circumstances,
Speaker 2: not necessarily that it was Bray Wyatt, or not necessarily
Speaker 2: looking at it as oh, bray Whyatt's in a MAINVN
Speaker 2: situation now, more looking at like the circumstances of how
Speaker 2: the match ended annoyed me, and that Trump's that bray
Speaker 2: White is now in a position of many bit positions.
Speaker 2: So I think people more annoyed by how it played
Speaker 2: out more so than excited at bray White's in the
Speaker 2: main event. That's I don't know if that made sense,
Speaker 2: but that's kinds the reaction right now. Is that kind
Speaker 2: of what you're sensing too, Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 3: I guess I expected fans to be a little more
Speaker 3: excited about Why versus Ambrose, but I think you're right
Speaker 3: that fans are There's still that Daniel Brian memory of
Speaker 3: how he was jerked around with Randy Orton for so long,
Speaker 3: and I think fans wanted to see Ambrose finally vanquish
Speaker 3: Rollins and what better place to do with than Helena
Speaker 3: Sell and to not get a finish, I think what
Speaker 3: was the frustrating thing for a lot of the fans.
Speaker 13: I'm Kelly Wells, host of pw T Talks NXT, the
Speaker 13: longest running NXT podcast anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Speaker 13: Bruce Lee, Hazelwood special guests, live every Tuesday night, just
Speaker 13: minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
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Speaker 13: in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream
Speaker 13: later wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 2: And then there's more of the It's almost more of
Speaker 2: an annoyance with the booking, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It gets beyond man, that character is screwed over Ambrose.
Speaker 2: It's more like, man, why did we book that? You know,
Speaker 2: you're more annoyed by the booking taking you. It's kind
Speaker 2: of takes you out of the moment and then you
Speaker 2: completely or like, yeah, I don't even I don't even.
Speaker 2: I don't even care that bray White's the Maven position
Speaker 2: right now, you know, because you're so annoyed by the
Speaker 2: booking more so than excited about bray Wyant. That's kind
Speaker 2: of what I sense people are feeling. And part of
Speaker 2: it is a Brian effect from last year, I think,
Speaker 2: also the recent non finishes and also Dan Ambrose beat
Speaker 2: on this neverending chase for seth Rollins. You know, this
Speaker 2: thing is a great great How long ago to the
Speaker 2: Shield break up? Was that? Was that after Extreme Rules?
Speaker 2: Was that when that breakup happened?
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't remember it in terms of.
Speaker 2: I wish paper it happened that. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 2: gonna say extreme rules. I could be wrong, but Okay,
Speaker 2: that was like four months ago. And yeah, I think
Speaker 2: if people were expected.
Speaker 3: That doesn't it does.
Speaker 10: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think part of the Ambrose was off TV for
Speaker 2: a whole month after the cinder Block spot. So I
Speaker 2: think people are like ready for this to be over,
Speaker 2: and now it feels like they're gonna kind of put
Speaker 2: it on the shelf for a little while, and then
Speaker 2: as we're talking about the very top of the show,
Speaker 2: maybe they get back to it leading to wrestle media.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's when the blowoff is and well, and as
Speaker 2: you brob earlier in the show, Greg, we'll people have
Speaker 2: the patience and the memory and will people want to
Speaker 2: see that when it happens. I don't know what to
Speaker 2: say how that plays out, but I think people more
Speaker 2: annoyed by the booking in the main event than excited
Speaker 2: about bray Wyant. That's kind of my feeling about it.
Speaker 2: That's kind of that's kind of what I felt about
Speaker 2: it too when it played out. Uh, but that's a
Speaker 2: great question. Let's go another phone call and next EPO
Speaker 2: is the two O nine area code Welcome to the
Speaker 2: show two oh nine. Please state your name? Where you
Speaker 2: calling from?
Speaker 4: Hey, guys, you remember Eric from stock in California.
Speaker 2: How's it going, Hey? Doing good to Eric, appreciate it.
Speaker 2: What's in your mind tonight?
Speaker 4: Well, getting back to when the Shield broke up, they
Speaker 4: actually played a little video package before the Rowands and
Speaker 4: Ambrose match, and I believe it said April eighth was
Speaker 4: when the Shield actually broke up. I think that was
Speaker 4: the date that they had, so about six and a
Speaker 4: half months ago, give a cake.
Speaker 2: I think I think that video was right after wrestle
Speaker 2: Mania when they were talking about the group, you know,
Speaker 2: all our best friends and all this sort of stuff,
Speaker 2: and then I think that so, yeah, that was kind
Speaker 2: of confusing me too. Not confusing in the sense of like,
Speaker 2: like they the way they presented is kind of what
Speaker 2: you're talking about, Eric, is they presented as if they
Speaker 2: broke got up on April E's But that video was,
Speaker 2: in my mind was when they were kind of talking
Speaker 2: about how cohesive they were right after Wrestlemting, and then
Speaker 2: you know, they want to be match to WRESTLEMINGI or
Speaker 2: whatever it was. I don't remember I remember wrestling anymore.
Speaker 2: It's been so long, but I think that was more
Speaker 2: about how cohesive they were, and then whenever that breakup
Speaker 2: happened was shortly there after that one, I think is
Speaker 2: the point they kind of rough. We were trying to
Speaker 2: make me. Yeah, I know what you're talking about, Eric, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but go ahead.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, I just said to comment in two questions.
Speaker 4: First to comment, I was watching the I was watching
Speaker 4: the pay per view on ROADKU three with contrasting, and
Speaker 4: I had a couple of a couple of hiccups during
Speaker 4: the bell of match, which really wasn't that big of
Speaker 4: a deal. It just kind of throw it just kind
Speaker 4: of throws on the loading screen for a couple of
Speaker 4: seconds and then went right back to it. So, I mean,
Speaker 4: other than that, it was it was perfect all the
Speaker 4: way through. But my two questions is I'm one of
Speaker 4: the I'm one of the guys who is a fan
Speaker 4: of Barry Whitett. I just think his promos make you
Speaker 4: want to watch him, or at least make me want to
Speaker 4: watch him, kind of like back to where Jaco the
Speaker 4: Snake Roberts did. It just made you want to listen
Speaker 4: to him. He has that kind of tone about him
Speaker 4: to me, and I'm just I'm anxious about the Ambrose
Speaker 4: Wyatt fused because of the promos that the two can
Speaker 4: act back and forth. I'm just going to the exchange
Speaker 4: between those two guys, and I wanted to get your
Speaker 4: guy thoughts on that potential, and then I had another
Speaker 4: question after that.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, gregor to me, I think that the frustration
Speaker 2: with how the main event ended will be kind of
Speaker 2: like for tonight only. And then, as Eric brought up,
Speaker 2: once we get into the Ambrose bray Wyatt program, the promos,
Speaker 2: whatever whatever happens physicality wise, before before we assume they
Speaker 2: have a paper you match, I think people will then
Speaker 2: switch over to being excited about that you see. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I agree, that's sort of the you're looking for the
Speaker 2: silver lighting come out of the main event. It is
Speaker 2: Ambrose and why I can have some promos and hopefully
Speaker 2: we're able to interpret them. There might need to be
Speaker 2: an intron involved, but it should make for smitter to
Speaker 2: say in television. So if look at that that silver lining, Greg,
Speaker 2: is that something people kind of can Okay, Sunday night
Speaker 2: this happened, not really thought about it, but Monday, I anticipate, Hey,
Speaker 2: this is gonna be a pretty good come out of this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Nick Foley tweeted after the show, you know
Speaker 3: something to the effective for those who are upset about
Speaker 3: the finish of the main event. Just think of the
Speaker 3: promos that will take place for the Ambros Versus Wyatt feud.
Speaker 3: And I think there's something to be said for what
Speaker 3: you said about Tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Night on Raw.
Speaker 3: WWE has the opportunity to do something big to kick
Speaker 3: off Ambrose versus Wyatt that will get fans talking about
Speaker 3: that rather than still being upset about the finish of
Speaker 3: that rawand Versus Ambrose match tonight.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, a great way of putting it. And what
Speaker 2: I mean, I assume we're going to promo unless they
Speaker 2: kind of do more of a more mystery and that
Speaker 2: that's a hard thing is do you want to go
Speaker 2: ahead and have that first promo or do you want
Speaker 2: to kind of carry over the mystery, the mysticism from
Speaker 2: the pay per view to Raw for the people who
Speaker 2: didn't see the pay per view and kind of introduce
Speaker 2: that to the main audience and then had a promo
Speaker 2: week two. That's gonna be a big question mark for
Speaker 2: tomorrow or Tonight's Raw, is do they go into that
Speaker 2: first promo or do they just have Dean Ambrose and
Speaker 2: Dress Bray and then Bray's only response is more sort
Speaker 2: of smoking mirrors, So yeah, we'll kind of see how
Speaker 2: they handle that. Do you want to go ahead and
Speaker 2: just jump right in with that or already delay it
Speaker 2: until next week, so see what they do with that.
Speaker 1: Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to
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Speaker 2: Eric, I think you had another question of comments.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 4: My other thing is it seems that WWE seems to
Speaker 4: be skipping between feuds more than usual now with Ambrose
Speaker 4: switching all of a sudden from Rawlins to Wyatt, and
Speaker 4: has seen a flipping from Lesnard to Rawlins to sort
Speaker 4: of Ambrose to Orton now back to Lesnar. I mean,
Speaker 4: it just it's I'm just wondering if it's another example
Speaker 4: of last minute rewrites by McMann or anybody else, or
Speaker 4: is this kind of a sign of panic with a
Speaker 4: lot of the top stars either being out of the
Speaker 4: company in punk or injured with Brian and Rank.
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I think there's a lot of
Speaker 2: factors involved. Great I mean, what's your thought on though,
Speaker 2: I'll throw that to you first. What do you think
Speaker 2: about you know, as Eric Gast, is it just sort
Speaker 2: of circumstances or is it more decision making behind the
Speaker 2: scenes or some sort of other factors and combinations.
Speaker 3: I think it's the lack of main event talent available
Speaker 3: right now. You sort of don't have a lot of
Speaker 3: options for John seen to the face. So he keeps
Speaker 3: going back and forth between the same guys, and that's
Speaker 3: what we see a lot of, whether it's a healer
Speaker 3: of babysas you just end up rotating back and forth
Speaker 3: between us select few guys who have gotten to the
Speaker 3: main events, because so few guys have been allowed to
Speaker 3: get over to that extent to where they're taken seriously
Speaker 3: as main event talents. And even with Seth Rolinson, Deana
Speaker 3: Ambrose visiting the main events and newly minted main eventors,
Speaker 3: I guess you could say it's still there's still that
Speaker 3: John Cena, that Andy Yorton, even the brock Lesner, especially
Speaker 3: when now he's going back to John Cena. So there
Speaker 3: does feel like there's this rotation of okay scenes facing
Speaker 3: this guy this guy, and now he's gonna go back
Speaker 3: to this guy because there's just not enough other guys
Speaker 3: for him to rotate in with. So I think it's
Speaker 3: the lack of top tier main eventors. And even a
Speaker 3: guy like Seamus, you know he's got the main event credibility,
Speaker 3: he should be a guy who's able to be rotated
Speaker 3: in and out with WWE. It seems like once you're
Speaker 3: in you're in forever, and they don't like to rotate
Speaker 3: guys into the main event and then pull.
Speaker 2: Them back.
Speaker 4: Short term.
Speaker 3: You know, we've seen again Seamus has been in the
Speaker 3: main events, Dolf Ziggeler to a certain extent, has been
Speaker 3: a main eventor but when they were pulled back, they're
Speaker 3: still pulled back. I mean they didn't go back and forth,
Speaker 3: They went on up and then they went We've been
Speaker 3: back ever since. So I think that it would help
Speaker 3: if they alternated, say a guy like Seamus or a
Speaker 3: guy like Dolph Ziggler. And I know I'm picking two
Speaker 3: of the secondary champions right now, but it would feel
Speaker 3: a little fresher on top if they were a little
Speaker 3: more willing to push some of these guys who are
Speaker 3: stuck in this mid card more ass and aren't able
Speaker 3: to get out. If they were able to push them
Speaker 3: to one or two main event pay per views or
Speaker 3: main event matches at pay per views, and then pull
Speaker 3: them back when they're not needed anymore.
Speaker 2: Is there a way to do that without having to
Speaker 2: go through the authority is my question? And I think
Speaker 2: dolps Zigger kind of touched on this a little bit
Speaker 2: in an interview with the UK son leading into the
Speaker 2: pay per view where he almost kind of recognized that
Speaker 2: the main way to get the main event level is
Speaker 2: you have to be in a program with the authority.
Speaker 2: And you look at you know, Seamus is in He's
Speaker 2: on the replay right now on the networks, he's in
Speaker 2: a few with Miss Miss you know, mid card at
Speaker 2: best kind of doing this comedy stick with Damian Sandel
Speaker 2: where Sandal's getting more over than Miz or Seamus. Uh
Speaker 2: so sorrows again mid card. You know in title, if
Speaker 2: you was Ziggler, Greg can Shamus can Ziggler? Can they
Speaker 2: get to that level you're talking about in any way
Speaker 2: other than having some sort of program with the authority?
Speaker 2: Is there any other way to do that?
Speaker 3: Well, in theory, yes, but in execution perhaps not so much.
Speaker 3: I think the authority is sort of backed off a
Speaker 3: little bit from being so involved in making the top matches.
Speaker 3: At least that's how it feels to me. But once
Speaker 3: you have an authority figure, and you've established these authority
Speaker 3: figures are the ones who make the matches, you kind
Speaker 3: of have to have everybody go through them or at
Speaker 3: least get approved by them, because they're they're not going
Speaker 3: to put you in a top match unless they've signed
Speaker 3: off on you on air, or they've had, you know,
Speaker 3: backstage segments with you, or you're somehow you've been pulled
Speaker 3: into their orbit somehow. So I think that's the That's
Speaker 3: the bad thing about having on air authority figures wield
Speaker 3: so much power is that now you do get the
Speaker 3: feeling that nothing can be done without them signing off
Speaker 3: on it. And if adult Ziggler somehow makes it to
Speaker 3: the main event, the obvious question from the fans is,
Speaker 3: so did the authority approve this? Do they like Ziggler?
Speaker 7: Now?
Speaker 3: So should we booz Ziggler because the authorities letting him
Speaker 3: rise at the rank? You know, it's it's it's.
Speaker 2: A little complicated, yeah. And then the lack of strong
Speaker 2: heels blow Orton, Rawlins or Rowins, Orton and Caine and
Speaker 2: you know Triple H non non wrestler or not in
Speaker 2: full time. You know, you would never see mows at
Speaker 2: that level. So you know Seamus, you know, like for
Speaker 2: Shamus and Ziggler, they're only gonna be at a certain
Speaker 2: level as good as the heels are going up against it.
Speaker 2: And I guess the number one to heal Greg outside
Speaker 2: of the Authority is Russev. So it's almost like, yeah,
Speaker 2: if you want to get that level and you don't
Speaker 2: go through the authority, you kind of have to get
Speaker 2: in a program with Russev because he's on a trajectory
Speaker 2: to as we talked about earlier, potentially John Cena to WrestleMania.
Speaker 2: That might be the ticket for a Shamus or a
Speaker 2: Ziggler to get up there is with Rusev, which is
Speaker 2: kind of you know, number one, no one would have
Speaker 2: thought that four months ago, but no one else is
Speaker 2: anywhere near that level. No one else is even protected
Speaker 2: at that level. Russev and the Authority. The only heels
Speaker 2: are protected. And even you know, even over Orton was
Speaker 2: not protected for a while there. Now he cuainly was
Speaker 2: because they had an event with John Cena this month.
Speaker 2: Uh So it's either they rebuild the roster, which they
Speaker 2: haven't shown any you know, desire to do that, or
Speaker 2: you kind of have to get paired up with the
Speaker 2: authority and maybe Greg survivors here is coming up. Maybe
Speaker 2: they you know, kind of something like Seamus and Ziggler
Speaker 2: and and Ambrose as you mentioned, kind of holding off
Speaker 2: on an Ambrose versus Wyatt match. Uh, maybe you have
Speaker 2: those three guys and another babyface. If if seen a
Speaker 2: lesson does not happened, then maybe it's Sena if not
Speaker 2: somebody else against you know, the authority as a way
Speaker 2: to get those mid cart babyface champions Shaane Misson Zigler
Speaker 2: into that into that orbit, into that era like you're
Speaker 2: talking about, where they actually be viewed as serious players,
Speaker 2: not just one of these guys kind of in the
Speaker 2: mid card matches every single month. But I don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't I don't know.
Speaker 2: They haven't really shown any desire to do that, so
Speaker 2: I don't know. We'll see about that. Eric, good call,
Speaker 2: appreciate it, and let's go to our next phone call.
Speaker 2: Next up is the four three four eerie code. Welcome
Speaker 2: to show four three four. Please take your name where
Speaker 2: you're calling from.
Speaker 5: This is Keith from Virginia.
Speaker 2: Hey, Keith, what's your mind tonight?
Speaker 5: Okay, forgive me if this comes off kind of random,
Speaker 5: because I'm just gonna sort of go through my thoughts
Speaker 5: on the show. Well, I don't know. If I'm the
Speaker 5: only person that doesn't like sand Out is act. I
Speaker 5: know he's uh, you know, a super talented guy and everything,
Speaker 5: but the whole thing just doesn't make any sense. Like
Speaker 5: Seamus is moving Mis around and and Sandow is you know,
Speaker 5: mimicking him, and it's supposed to be funny, but why
Speaker 5: isn't he helping his friend? You know, why isn't he
Speaker 5: stopping Seamus from you know, embarrassing his friend and broke
Speaker 5: kicking him in the face. I don't really understand that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, on that point, I'll come back to you, Keith,
Speaker 2: And I think that's a great, great topic. Uh yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's the thing I had in the post match Greg,
Speaker 2: where uh, Seamus is kind of toying with both Mis
Speaker 2: and Sandow and you're like, well, I mean the implication
Speaker 2: that Sandal is so loyal to miss that he's going
Speaker 2: to you know, mimic everything that he does. But yeah,
Speaker 2: you mean he's standing right there next to him, and
Speaker 2: you're like, Okay, why wasn't Sandow just drop the act
Speaker 2: and punch Seamous in the face? Like what? It's felt
Speaker 2: a little bit like they'd crossed the line into just
Speaker 2: as really absurd and ridiculous beyond the the the the
Speaker 2: you know, the the cute kind of trying to be
Speaker 2: a little cute with the whole stunt double thing. I'm
Speaker 2: a little bit more down on it than nothing a
Speaker 2: lot of people are. I think Greg, you might be
Speaker 2: a little bit more positive about it based on your
Speaker 2: tweets than I am. I'm distracted by Sandow a lot
Speaker 2: during the match, and I think sometimes the act takes
Speaker 2: away some Sometimes I think the act is kind of cool.
Speaker 2: I mean, I liked I liked the spot where uh
Speaker 2: Seamus did the forums of the chest and Sanda was
Speaker 2: kind of there rocking, taking the the imaginary blows that
Speaker 2: Shamus was doing it during the match. I was okay
Speaker 2: with that, But I think in general I'm more distracted
Speaker 2: by his presence and and and and imitating ticking bumps
Speaker 2: then I think he's helping. But that's my opinion. What
Speaker 2: do you think about Greg as far as overall to
Speaker 2: stand out, help, hurt, distract, benefit, enhance. What are his
Speaker 2: thoughts on that? And as far as as Keith brought
Speaker 2: up with the you know, not helping out, not helping
Speaker 2: out Miz.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't try to waste too many brain cells finding
Speaker 3: logic in the Damien mized out character. I think that's
Speaker 3: when you just got to throw logic out the window
Speaker 3: and you either sit back and enjoy it for what
Speaker 3: it is, this absurdist commentary on movie stars, or you
Speaker 3: hate it for being terribly business exposing. Right now, I'm
Speaker 3: enjoying it, and I was laughing out loud at some
Speaker 3: of the stuff he was doing.
Speaker 2: Like you said, the.
Speaker 3: Forearms were great. A true stunt double knows his role
Speaker 3: and he played that role perfectly, and he may have
Speaker 3: been tempted to break character to help out the Miz,
Speaker 3: but that's not what the stunt double's role is, so
Speaker 3: he didn't do that. At least that's my logic behind
Speaker 3: why he didn't help MS. But you can't argue that
Speaker 3: he's more over now than he has been in a
Speaker 3: very long time with this character, and there's something to
Speaker 3: be said for that. Even if the character is business
Speaker 3: exposing to a certain extent, he is over with the fans,
Speaker 3: so that's got to be worth something.
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Speaker 14: some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Past Cast Every
Speaker 14: Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
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Speaker 14: pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feed.
Speaker 2: There was one moment where he did break from it.
Speaker 2: It was when the match ended and mis got pinned
Speaker 2: and Sanda kind of wandered around the ring like gosh, frustrated, angry,
Speaker 2: and then he rolled back in the ring and then
Speaker 2: he started playing the Sun Double. So yeah, there was
Speaker 2: a little bit of a stretch there where they're trying
Speaker 2: to tell the story of you know, Sandal is still
Speaker 2: trying to be loyal to the cause, but he's still
Speaker 2: kind of his own person at times. But then he's like, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm still a Sun Double. So I can't believe we're
Speaker 2: analyzing this. This is I'm taking it really far analyzing it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it is a little bit silly unless, like,
Speaker 2: as you said, you're able to look at it for
Speaker 2: what it is and what they're trying to do. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it's good. It's a good it is kind of in
Speaker 2: the eye had the holder with this one, and it
Speaker 2: is mid card. It's not meaning been. If it was
Speaker 2: something that mean event, I'd be very much against it.
Speaker 2: It's kind of midcard. It's more of a distraction for me.
Speaker 2: But I'm not liking up arms about it. But I
Speaker 2: also see where Key's coming from that it is it
Speaker 2: can't stretch a little bit Kei's going with other thoughts.
Speaker 5: Well, just to you know, extending that point. You know,
Speaker 5: I can get past it because you know it's a
Speaker 5: it's a chiory thing. But then you see some of
Speaker 5: these huge logic holes, like take being Ambrose. I think
Speaker 5: one of the biggest things working against him is the
Speaker 5: fact that, you know, people compare him the stone Cold
Speaker 5: and they compare him to the Joker. But the same
Speaker 5: people liked about Stone Cold and the Joker with the
Speaker 5: fact that they're smart. They're smart guys when it comes
Speaker 5: down to it, they're clever. Stone Cold would get the
Speaker 5: upper hand because even though he was kind of impulsive
Speaker 5: and he had a temperate he could still out smart
Speaker 5: with Man and his cronies. Whereas Ambrose seems to fall
Speaker 5: for every trick in the book. He gets distracted and
Speaker 5: he you know, he doesn't have focus and it costs
Speaker 5: him and he and it constantly makes him look kind
Speaker 5: of like an idiot, you know, like he's he's a
Speaker 5: loose cannon, but he's also you know, kind of film
Speaker 5: And that whole finish of the main event, I figure
Speaker 5: maybe bray Wyatt was out all that time because he
Speaker 5: was trying to figure out how to get a hologram
Speaker 5: under their ring. And he spent all that all that
Speaker 5: time trying to figure that out. Why I don't understand
Speaker 5: why is it that Hell Want to Sell is supposed
Speaker 5: to be you know, this structure that's impenetrable that you
Speaker 5: can pretty much expect in experence in every Hell Want
Speaker 5: to Sell main event. It sort of defeats the purpose.
Speaker 5: But anyway, that's pretty much all I had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no great topics, Keith, Yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 2: right you and I kind of talked about, you know,
Speaker 2: is is bray Wyatt's you know, sort of magic tricks.
Speaker 2: Is that enough to kind of go around down the
Speaker 2: idea that you know, this is supposed to be held
Speaker 2: in the son no one should be able to get in.
Speaker 2: I think they kind of took some creative license with that,
Speaker 2: with this finish. I'm not saying it was the best
Speaker 2: use of creative license. It wasn't the worst I've seen.
Speaker 2: It wasn't like Lockdown. We we seen the much, yeah,
Speaker 2: especially with teeny Lockdown, So I don't think it was
Speaker 2: the biggest issue I had was just the way it
Speaker 2: was executed, you know, with a hologram. I don't know
Speaker 2: what they're going for. I just I thought that was unnecessary.
Speaker 2: I think Keith brings up an interesting point though about
Speaker 2: is Ambrose, by not winning this match the presumed blowoff
Speaker 2: you would assume, you know, helling to sell it was
Speaker 2: the ball off match. He didn't win it. We assume
Speaker 2: now that he's got keep going, going to WrestleMania perhaps
Speaker 2: or sometime soon it does Did he need to win
Speaker 2: this first, as Keith brought up, to show that he's
Speaker 2: not just reckless, abandoned and just this crazy guy, but
Speaker 2: actually he actually has some you know, he's got that
Speaker 2: cerebral mindset. We're should win a match where he when
Speaker 2: he needs to win it. Did they make a mistake
Speaker 2: with how they presented the finisher in that respect?
Speaker 3: I think so, because I think we've seen Ambrose outsmart
Speaker 3: others numerous times. You know, he had the hot dog card,
Speaker 3: he had the spring, the green gack in seth Allins
Speaker 3: face out of the money in the bank briefcase, we
Speaker 3: saw him a peer out of nowhere behind Cethrollins in
Speaker 3: the crowd to attack him. So, I think Ambrose has
Speaker 3: done a good job of being in the right place
Speaker 3: at the right time and out smarting his opponents in
Speaker 3: non wrestling segments. And I think the problem is he
Speaker 3: hasn't translated to the ring and he hasn't done it
Speaker 3: enough in matches to where it really feels ultimately effective.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great way of putting it is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's been able to outsmart the heels outside of the ring,
Speaker 2: but not really in there. Yeah. I think that's where
Speaker 2: I'll put in it. So I and I think that's
Speaker 2: why it's impative that he's got to win one of
Speaker 2: these big matches. Yeah, the next pay per view, whenever,
Speaker 2: the next big singles match he has. Is he not
Speaker 2: just DQ? We see a lot of DQ wins that'll
Speaker 2: they doesn't really count and the big picture of trying
Speaker 2: to establish this guy can win matches. Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: he brings up a good point. I think that's that's
Speaker 2: a pretty good point. Puts the phone call, Keith. Let's
Speaker 2: go to our next phone call. Uh, six to three
Speaker 2: one area code drew up next six to three one.
Speaker 2: Please state your name.
Speaker 7: MARIYCN from from Long Island.
Speaker 2: Hey, Kyle, I'm gonna talk to you. What you mind tonight?
Speaker 15: I was actually on Twitter and I told one Greg's
Speaker 15: comments was actually really and he pretty much said, like,
Speaker 15: it's a shame that they can't build the pay per
Speaker 15: view up because the pay view was amazing compared to
Speaker 15: build And I just want to get your opinions on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't you know, I think we all agree,
Speaker 2: or most of us, at least you and I Gray,
Speaker 2: we agree with thumbs up show. Uh. I think these
Speaker 2: simplified things and told the second off of the show.
Speaker 2: But the first half of the show, they simplified things.
Speaker 2: They didn't have a lot of a lot of filler
Speaker 2: in the first half of the show. It was a
Speaker 2: pretty straightforward card. Good matches, some above average, some above expectations.
Speaker 2: I just think because it was straightforward. I think TV
Speaker 2: they just overcomplicate things for whatever reason, any number of reasons.
Speaker 2: Is that how you felt about it? Too great? To
Speaker 2: see some other factor of why. At least at least
Speaker 2: the first half of the show really came out pretty
Speaker 2: strong and you're sitting there looking at raw and like,
Speaker 2: why why can't they do this on Monday nights.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that was my point, was that the raw
Speaker 3: TVs have been just very I didn't even want to
Speaker 3: say hit or miss. It's been miss or slightly non miss.
Speaker 3: I don't know what other way to put it, but
Speaker 3: there hasn't been a raws and blown me away in
Speaker 3: a long time, and yet the pay per views they
Speaker 3: put out are consistently good, and it's just it's very
Speaker 3: frustrating to see that because that they know how to
Speaker 3: put on a quality program, a quality three hour event,
Speaker 3: and yet we get these raws that I'm not asking
Speaker 3: for raws to be pay per view quality or to
Speaker 3: have match after match after match like we see on
Speaker 3: pay per view, but the quality takes such a huge
Speaker 3: dip when you're talking about TV, and it would be
Speaker 3: nice for that product to at least be on par
Speaker 3: with what we're seeing on pay per view.
Speaker 2: I think they've got to remove a lot of distractions
Speaker 2: on Mondays. I think they're distracted. I think they're not focused.
Speaker 2: They're just something about Mondays where they just sort of
Speaker 2: lose focus and and they also don't have the long matches.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they'll have a couple of long matches and then
Speaker 2: they kind of padded out the rest of the show,
Speaker 2: you know, just sort of garbage and filler. And like
Speaker 2: you said, we're not asking them to have, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, just a pay per view series of matches.
Speaker 2: But I think they've gotta, you know, be more focused,
Speaker 2: be more intentional about what they're doing, because we're seeing
Speaker 2: they're capable on Sundays at least for the last several shows,
Speaker 2: so they got it. I just think they just sort
Speaker 2: of distract themselves on Mondays for whatever reason, and the
Speaker 2: reasons you mentioned too, Greg, Kyle, did you have another
Speaker 2: question to fall up on that.
Speaker 4: No, that's all good, guys.
Speaker 6: Have a great night, all right.
Speaker 2: Appreciate the phone call. I'll talk to you again later
Speaker 2: on the week, Kyle. Appreciate the call.
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Speaker 2: Let's go to our last phone call tonight. This is
Speaker 2: from the six one seven area code. Welcome to show
Speaker 2: six one seven. Please state your name where you're going from.
Speaker 16: Hey guys, this is Walter from Boston.
Speaker 2: Hey Walter, what's you in mind tonight?
Speaker 16: I have a comment and a question about the show tonight.
Speaker 16: I gave the show I think six and a half.
Speaker 16: I thought the positives actually the bellows were better than
Speaker 16: I expected they would be. But there were a lot
Speaker 16: of negatives to this event. The wrestling was good, but
Speaker 16: I really hate seeing a main event that took all
Speaker 16: those bumps that didn't have a real finish to it.
Speaker 16: And these guys have had a lumberjack match, a street fight,
Speaker 16: now a hell in a cell. And when is the
Speaker 16: payoff going to be and how are they going to
Speaker 16: present that payoff? It doesn't make any sense. My question
Speaker 16: to you guys, well that was one question, But one
Speaker 16: other question to you guys is so the tacking division
Speaker 16: seems really weak right now, and where do you see
Speaker 16: it moving forward? And who can can be like new
Speaker 16: contenders for the tacking title.
Speaker 4: And I'll hang up and listen.
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, Yeah, good, good questions, Walt, you appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Good call. Let's show the tag division to about the
Speaker 2: tag match. Yet usso's lose again. We assume they're kind
Speaker 2: of out of the running. Uh, most matadors aren't really there,
Speaker 2: slater gators sort of on you know, Made Events Superstars level,
Speaker 2: Greg am I missing some tag teams here? Who else
Speaker 2: they have in that division?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: And I think what happens when this scenario pops its
Speaker 3: head up if WWE just tends to cobble together random
Speaker 3: mid carters who aren't doing anything and puts them in
Speaker 3: the tag division. So, you know, we can look at
Speaker 3: the tag division as it stands today and what it
Speaker 3: can look like a month from now is very different
Speaker 3: based on where WWE decides to go. Do they call
Speaker 3: up the ascension, do they utilize you know some some yeah,
Speaker 3: some mid carters who aren't really doing anything right now,
Speaker 3: but can be teamed up as a you know, babyfaced
Speaker 3: team to face goald Us and start us at the
Speaker 3: next pay per view. So that's always a possibility.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned the Ascension. They popped in my head
Speaker 2: and I was gonna ask you, this Ascension feels like
Speaker 2: kind of a heelish tag team. The Rhodes Brothers are
Speaker 2: kind of heels. It's a little bit murky. Can you
Speaker 2: introduce the Ascension as a default babyfaced opposition or I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess you could. Nobody really knows them
Speaker 2: out so that people watch the network. Or are they
Speaker 2: kind of a natural healed team where you're like, well,
Speaker 2: that's kind of an odd pairing. I just I don't
Speaker 2: know how that would work out. They just brought the
Speaker 2: Ascension against the Rose Brothers.
Speaker 3: What do you think, Well, I think what you'd want
Speaker 3: to do with the Ascension on the main rosters, what
Speaker 3: they had done, as sad as this sounds, I think
Speaker 3: you'd want them to wrestle in a series of squash
Speaker 3: matches on TV to build them up before you put
Speaker 3: them in the tag title hunt, and by the time
Speaker 3: they're ready for that, after they've established themselves in these
Speaker 3: squash matches, I think by then, maybe Goldenson started US
Speaker 3: wouldn't be tag champs. Whatever Baby Faced team won the
Speaker 3: titles from them might be ready for the attention at
Speaker 3: that point.
Speaker 2: M Hm, there was a couple of waytts, Harper Rowland.
Speaker 2: Maybe bray Wyatt's return leads to them returning, but then
Speaker 2: again their heels. I you know, I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 2: it'd be a weird matchup for a whatever reasons, Rose
Speaker 2: brothers against the wives, but I don't know it would
Speaker 2: be fresh, but it'd just be kind of weird. U
Speaker 2: And then Walter alsounds about the payoff to the Ambrose situation. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, I thought this should have been the payoff,
Speaker 2: but I think they're gonna I think they're gonna extend
Speaker 2: this again. We'll talk about maybe the WrestleMania maybe before that,
Speaker 2: but I think Ambrose gets that winnever rollins at either
Speaker 2: the end of this year or sometime next year. I
Speaker 2: thought it should have been here, but they didn't want
Speaker 2: to go that route. So I think it just sort
Speaker 2: of delayed. It's just sort of a delay. And then
Speaker 2: it just mattered can they get people interested again when
Speaker 2: they get to that payoff? And that's maybe a question mark,
Speaker 2: so we'll see about that. Uh yeah again Walters.
Speaker 3: Walter's question and his point was that with the high
Speaker 3: spots in the match, those deserve to have a clean finish,
Speaker 3: and I think that might be why they did do
Speaker 3: all of those big spots is because they knew they
Speaker 3: weren't going to deliver a clean finish. Therefore, fans who
Speaker 3: maybe would have complained about the finish could at least
Speaker 3: look back on the match and say, well, we didn't
Speaker 3: get a clean finish, but man, they tore the house
Speaker 3: down when they you know, had the match and they
Speaker 3: did all these big spots. I think that might have
Speaker 3: been the reason they did those spots was because they
Speaker 3: knew they were going to give them a clean finish.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was kind of the argument last month for Lester
Speaker 2: and Senas I thought they had a pretty good matchup
Speaker 2: until the finish, and it seemed like they had a
Speaker 2: really they were trying to have a really strong, you
Speaker 2: know first, you know, ninety five percent of the match
Speaker 2: because they knew the finish was gonna maybe a little
Speaker 2: bit of upset and then kind of big picture on
Speaker 2: this entire show. It seemed like Gregor, they had a
Speaker 2: really strong first half of the show because they might
Speaker 2: have known that people might not be a sort of
Speaker 2: aout the gonna after the show. So as long as
Speaker 2: we have a good first half for the show then
Speaker 2: made maybe people are a little bit more accepting of
Speaker 2: how the end of the show is gonna play out.
Speaker 2: I certainly felt that way, especially when the show open
Speaker 2: was gonna clean sweep over so sorrow and that was
Speaker 2: really strong matchup, and then Sina order was really strong
Speaker 2: matchup and seen it once. That's gonna please that's that
Speaker 2: portion of the audience. So I thought there was some
Speaker 2: strategy involved in how they kind of laid out this show.
Speaker 2: It strotaly felt that way. But you know, now then
Speaker 2: if if that was the case, that's good. You know
Speaker 2: have you know, it's better than having a really bad show.
Speaker 2: No one, you're gonna have a screwy finished the MEDIMN.
Speaker 2: So I will take a good half first half of
Speaker 2: the show any day of the week. That's uh, that's
Speaker 2: all the phone calls have got V happy members. The
Speaker 2: roundtable is up way Calibers Mitchell, Patman, Neil. That has
Speaker 2: been posted since we've been on the air, so you
Speaker 2: can listen to to their to their audio roundtable review
Speaker 2: of the show simultaneous to our show here in the
Speaker 2: postgame show at peterwe torchlivecast dot com. Uh, Greg, I
Speaker 2: know you've got school in the morning. It's one o'clock
Speaker 2: your time. Final thaws and they also we haven't really
Speaker 2: touched on in depth that you'd like to mention before
Speaker 2: we wrap up.
Speaker 3: No, just sums up show for me, probably sitting into
Speaker 3: seven right now, but that's that's what I'm thinking as
Speaker 3: of right now. I'll sleep on it, see if see
Speaker 3: if I wake up with the same feelings.
Speaker 2: All right, Uh yeah, I think I'll probably add a
Speaker 2: six and a half. Yeah, I did probably six and
Speaker 2: a half, maybe a seven price six and a half,
Speaker 2: So yeah, we're all good in the same range there.
Speaker 2: I see Bruce Mitchell's round tap, he's out of six,
Speaker 2: So six or seven. I think that's a pretty fair
Speaker 2: range for this show. Pretty good show, just you know,
Speaker 2: didn't quite finish as strong as I think we would
Speaker 2: have liked. So we'll goe happens next month, and Greg,
Speaker 2: appreciate you being with me on the live cast. Have
Speaker 2: a great week of school, and we'll talk to you
Speaker 2: again later on leading up until Survivor Series November. We'll
Speaker 2: see they put together for that show, so we'll see
Speaker 2: what happens there. Thank you all you guys for calling
Speaker 2: into the livecast. Appreciate you guys support of the show.
Speaker 2: Tuning again on Monday, Bruce Mitchell, Travis Bryant seven o'clock
Speaker 2: pm Eastern with the pre show before Raw, taking your
Speaker 2: phone calls on Raw, plus other topics of the news
Speaker 2: on a Monday. So go at pwtorch dot com for
Speaker 2: the latest news and all kinds of news coverage from
Speaker 2: the world of wrestling include WT and A and other promotions.
Speaker 2: And I'll see you guys over there at pdbtorch dot
Speaker 2: com on behalf of torchcoms Greg Parks with Kids Up
Speaker 2: Bridges Planning is out. This is Torchstenator James called Wilson
Speaker 2: it Off for the live cast.
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