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When 21 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.959 you sign up for email in text that's ten percent 22 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:11.000 off at tacovis dot com slash Wade. That's t e 23 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:16.560 c o v as dot com slash Wade. See the 24 00:01:16.599 --> 00:01:20.120 site for details. To Covis point your toes West. 25 00:01:31.959 --> 00:01:35.920 Now. Pw Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller 26 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:39.239 Pro Wrestling Podcast. 27 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:43.120 Today on the Wade Color Pro Wrestling Podcast, we jump 28 00:01:43.159 --> 00:01:45.400 back ten years to a special episode the Helena Cell 29 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:48.159 Post Show. James Caldon and Greg Parks hosted this right 30 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:50.760 after the event ended with live callers. This event included 31 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:54.200 two Helena Cell matches, one featuring John Sene against Randy Orton, 32 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:57.760 the other Dean Ambrose against seth Rawlins. Also Nikki Bella 33 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:00.560 versus Bray Bella where the loser head become the others 34 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:03.560 assistant for one month. Seamus took on the Miz for 35 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:07.200 the US title, Page took on aj Lee challenge Jjlee 36 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:09.719 for the Davis title, and more so. Again they're live 37 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:13.520 callers and interaction throughout the show, which originally live stream 38 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.080 on October twenty six, twenty fourteen, ten years ago this week, 39 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:19.639 and it is today's ten years ago we Keller PROG 40 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:20.800 Wrestling podcast Flashback. 41 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:25.719 You're listening to the P to B Torch Live Cast. 42 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:29.719 It's Sunday night, October twenty six, twenty fourteen, on a 43 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:32.039 special edition of live cast here at P to B 44 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:36.479 torchlivecast dot com. Following ws Hell in a Cell pay 45 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:39.439 per view from Dallas, and I'm your host on tonight's show. 46 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:42.919 P to B Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell joined by 47 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:46.240 Torch columnist Greg Parks breaking down tonight's pay per view 48 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:49.800 and we will get to Greg right here in a second. Greg, 49 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:50.599 how are you doing tonight? 50 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:54.639 I'm doing well, James, always glad to be with you 51 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:57.400 here on these pay per view postgame shows. 52 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:04.120 Yeah, first one since Night Champions last months. I was 53 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:08.120 like six weeks ago. I think for a long time, Greg, 54 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:10.199 we didn't know what to expect from the show in 55 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:13.159 terms of would they have some sort of big angle, 56 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:15.719 would there be a big development perhaps with the w 57 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:20.680 title situation, no major title match on this show without 58 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:23.240 brock Lester. Paul Hymn was there, but no brock Lesner. 59 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:27.080 So there's a new number of contenders, John Cena, so 60 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.800 we're gonna get seen a Lesner again. They tipped a 61 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:33.319 big angle for the main event, main event, South Rollins 62 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:36.560 Dean Ambrose. More than half of that quote unquote match 63 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:40.919 was before the match even started, and then the main 64 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:45.599 event ends with the return of bray Wyatt, costing and 65 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:48.319 Ambrose the match against Rawlins. But what was your reaction 66 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:50.840 when you saw that, Greg, Just initially when you saw 67 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:53.039 the finish, and then we'll kind of get to the 68 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:55.599 you know, the implications, But your reaction to how the 69 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:57.840 main event the pay per view ended. 70 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:02.520 Well, it was a little surprising to me because it 71 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:06.159 didn't seem like the Seth Rollins Dean Ambrolse feud was 72 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:08.719 over yet, and it looked like they were already transitioning 73 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:12.039 into Dean Amberls versus bray Wyatt. So I'm curious to 74 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:16.519 see how they fit Wyatt in with those two. If 75 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:20.279 you remember, this is how bray Wyatt's feud seemed to start. 76 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:22.879 He just randomly attacks someone and then they make up 77 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:25.800 a reason later. This is how his feud with John 78 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:29.160 Cena started too. His feud with Chris Jericho started a 79 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:31.160 very similar way. Where he just came out of the 80 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:36.480 crowd and randomly attacked Jericho. So we shouldn't be surprised 81 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.920 that this is how it starts, but I think I'm 82 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:44.319 surprised at when it's starting. When Ambrose and Rollins, we 83 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:48.399 still haven't gotten a decisive, clear cut winner yet in 84 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:49.120 this feud. 85 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:51.759 What do you that's gonna happen? I mean, do you 86 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:55.720 think it's WrestleMania, Like they're gonna save the you know, 87 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:58.920 Ambrose's victory of Rawlins, You're gonna save it for WrestleMania 88 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:03.079 The Bowl twenty seventeen. I mean like when, I mean, 89 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:05.639 like honest, when do you think they because obviously you 90 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:07.639 said they're going to go off to Bray and Ambrose 91 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:11.279 and I assume Rowlins does someone with Orton sort of 92 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:15.399 the internal battle the authority. But how when did they'll 93 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:17.920 get back to a point where Ambrose finally get set 94 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:18.959 win over Seth Rollins. 95 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:22.000 That's a good question. 96 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:22.560 I don't know. 97 00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:25.240 It doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon. 98 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:27.800 I think there were some thoughts that it might happen 99 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:33.480 here tonight. Obviously that wasn't the case. I think WrestleMania 100 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:37.240 is a possibility. I think that would be the very 101 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:40.959 latest though, that you could do it, because Bray Wyatt 102 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.879 and Dean Ambrose and then Seth Rawlins and Randy Orton. 103 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:48.480 If you extrapolate those two out, do those two feuds 104 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:52.959 stretch out to say the Royal Rumble and then Rollins 105 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:57.079 versus Ambrose somehow picks up at the Rumble where they's 106 00:05:57.160 --> 00:05:59.360 off here, And how does that happen? How do they 107 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:05.040 go back to Ambrose Rollins and have both of these 108 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:09.639 two new feuds finish at the same time. So I 109 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:12.839 don't know what the thinking is from WWE as to 110 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:16.680 why they feel the need to go in a different 111 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:19.240 direction right now without giving the fans a clear cut 112 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:23.720 winner in this feud. But you know, for a WrestleMania match, 113 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:30.360 Ambrose versus Rollins sounds appealing. But remember the last few 114 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:32.160 weeks it feels like that feud has been kind of 115 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:34.160 running on. So are they going to able are they 116 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:37.160 going to be able to reheat it in the winter 117 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:41.040 next year to really get it going and make it 118 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:43.240 feel like a WrestleMania match comes springtime? 119 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:46.639 And then like what kind of match can they even have? 120 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:50.040 I mean, Helena Cell seems like the blowoff, you know, 121 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:52.519 like as far as the match structure, so they've had 122 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:56.959 a Lumberjack, they've had Helen to sell, you know, I 123 00:06:57.079 --> 00:06:59.279 quit I mean is that I just don't know what 124 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:01.519 else they can do. Wants to go to hell in itself. 125 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:04.480 But like you said, maybe enough time passes where they 126 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:07.399 can kind of refresh it. It doesn't feel like it's, 127 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.800 like you said, running on fumes and they can make 128 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:13.639 it interesting again for Russellmania or some other pay per view. 129 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:15.879 Ambrose has got to get the win. It just a 130 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:18.560 matter of win. I mean, they could be back to 131 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:21.199 it at TLC. I mean, they could have a TLC 132 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:24.399 match and they might have a month off here, but 133 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:27.079 that would be kind of a short change and presuming 134 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.959 Bray Wha Dean Ambrose feuds. So yeah, I'm not sure, 135 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:34.519 but I'm gon lean towards Mania to give them a 136 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:40.480 really strong match between two younger stars, you know that 137 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:43.959 that guaranteed showcase match for the younger you know, for 138 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:48.360 the basically the recent NXT development of wrestlers, if you 139 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:52.079 want to put Ambrose Rollins Wide in that sort of category. Uh. 140 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:56.480 As far as as far as how the how this 141 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:59.120 pay per view played out, Greg Roy Strong. I was 142 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:02.000 Roy Strong undercar or with the opening match with Ziggler 143 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:05.040 and c Sorrow, and then you have the first home 144 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:07.160 of some match was seen in Orton and the top 145 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:09.560 of the second hour, so that that's your entire first 146 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:11.519 half hour of the show, an hour and a half 147 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:13.680 of the show, and then they kind of went into 148 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:17.360 some okay stuff. It made you've been Like I said, 149 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:18.680 it was sort of all over the place. How do 150 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:21.319 you assess this show overall when you look at a 151 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:24.759 pretty strong first half of the show and then sort 152 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.519 of a you know, okay, the good second half of 153 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:29.439 the shot, how does it all balance out in your mind? 154 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:34.200 Well, it's definitely a thumbs up show for me, and 155 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.120 I think I saw it very similar similarly to how 156 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:40.679 you saw it, James, where the first half of the 157 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:43.399 show was a really strong thumbs up for me. Things 158 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.000 sort of tapered off from there, but it didn't fall 159 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.240 off a cliff, you know, the quality was still there, 160 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:52.720 but it was harder to find than in the first 161 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:55.320 half of the show, So it was a little bit 162 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:58.360 of a dip in the second half. And your mileage 163 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:02.039 me very on Ambrose versus Roll, that's again a match 164 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:05.799 a lot of people were excited to see, and this 165 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:08.039 is the one that people thought they were finally going 166 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:11.840 to get a full fledged Ambrose versus Alland's match. You 167 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:14.519 did sort of get that, but you didn't get a 168 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:19.799 conclusive finish or a clean finish rather and you didn't 169 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:23.440 get the kind of I don't think match quality from 170 00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:27.600 a pure wrestling standpoint that a lot of people were 171 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:31.759 hoping for. And I'm okay with that trade off of 172 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:36.159 the match quality wasn't four and a half stars to 173 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:40.320 me or five stars. But was this a star making 174 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:43.679 performance for Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins. Did they come 175 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:47.519 out of Helena sell the pay per view stronger than 176 00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:49.840 when they went in? I think you could make the 177 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:53.720 argument that they that they did based largely on the 178 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:56.440 fact that they Maine invented this pay per view. So 179 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:00.279 even though the match quality wasn't maybe what people were anticipating, 180 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:07.039 there were enough big moments in the match to further 181 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:12.000 each man's career and to make them bigger stars in 182 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:13.679 the eyes of some of the fans. 183 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:18.639 You can support us on Patreon and get these shows 184 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:21.440 with ads and plugs. Remove the Weight Killer prosing podcast. 185 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:24.360 Weight Keller prossing post shows and the PW Torch daily 186 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:27.399 cast throughout the week with ads and plugs remove, plus 187 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.879 a few bonus VIP shows throughout the month for just 188 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:32.919 four dollars and ninety nine cents a month. Check it 189 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:37.960 out patreon dot com slash PW Torch VIP. That's patreon 190 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:40.919 dot com slash PW torch VIP and you can also 191 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:44.600 upgrade to other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon. 192 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:50.159 And I know one of the big issues that people 193 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:51.559 are gonna have with the end of the pay per 194 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:55.360 view was again another non fit. I mean there was 195 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:59.960 a penfall, but an interference filled finish to a mean event. 196 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:02.879 Last month Summer Slam, I'm sorry, last month of the 197 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:07.600 Night Champions was Rowlands interfered in the Brockwaster John Stenham rematch. 198 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:11.360 They've had a slew of raw TV made events where 199 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.559 there's either not even a finish or a DQ finish 200 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:19.559 or non finish whatever. Are they pushing it, Greg or 201 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:22.759 are they able to get away with it? Because the 202 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:25.279 Ambrose Rawlins was pretty good. Like you said, it was 203 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:27.600 a pretty good match. It wasn't technically a great like 204 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:30.559 four Star match, but it was a pretty good match. 205 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:33.840 Are they pushing it? And have they've gone too far 206 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:38.440 with the cop out non finish DQ finishes as of late, well, there's. 207 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:41.600 Still a long way from that Randy Yorton versus Daniel 208 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:46.679 O'Brien non finish escapade of four paper four or five 209 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:51.039 pay per views in a last year or whatever it was, 210 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:55.039 So they haven't quite reached that point yet. But I 211 00:11:55.080 --> 00:12:01.480 think the the intrigue surrounding bray Whitt's return and him 212 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:08.399 going after Dean Ambrose, I think that may largely make 213 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:13.840 up for the finish that we saw. I think fans, 214 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:18.039 because they're so high on very WIAT and obviously Dean Ambrose, 215 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:21.679 I think they the intrigues surrounding in Ambrose versus Why 216 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:27.000 the feud may make up for the uh, the anger 217 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:30.919 that they may feel and not having a clean winner 218 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:32.559 in in Rollins versus Ambrose. 219 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.080 Very good, good thoughts. We're gonna jump to phone calls. 220 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:39.960 Got lots to unpack, especially the undercard. Undercard deserves a 221 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:42.799 lot of attension tonight. Usually it's right, right, we kind 222 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:44.960 of sit and talk about, you know, two matches because 223 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.519 the undercard's kind of you know, it's fine or wasn't 224 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:51.120 that good tonight? The undercard really really held its own. 225 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:53.960 So we'll get the phone calls and and some other 226 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:57.519 thoughts on on the undercard. I think it deserves attention, 227 00:12:57.559 --> 00:12:58.919 so we would touch on that as well with of 228 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:01.759 course the main events, UH before I had the phone calls, though, Greg, 229 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:04.039 I always like to ask this question, how was your 230 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.519 feed a network extreme? But what was it one your end? 231 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:09.159 Well? 232 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:12.080 Last time, if you remember, I was one of the 233 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:14.679 few times that I actually had problems UH with the 234 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:18.240 feed at night Champions, and they were minor, but they 235 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.799 were still enough for me to make mention of them. 236 00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:24.840 I had a perfectly clean feed the entire show on 237 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.919 my laptop today, so I have no complaints about that. 238 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:32.919 Very good. Yeah, I had a couple of glitches in 239 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:34.679 the main event. I wasn't sure if it was the 240 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:38.200 network or my internet connection, so I'm not sure about that, 241 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:41.440 but yeah, otherwise it was pretty clean throughout, so I 242 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:43.960 was pleasantly surprised that there were no issues. That that's good. 243 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.559 But if people did have issues, let us know when 244 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:48.720 you do call up and talking about how to sell 245 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:52.240 This is Torch, This is Nedder. James Caldwell joined by Torch, Columbus. 246 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:55.759 Greg Parks taking your calls at six four, six, seven, 247 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:58.840 one nine, eight two eight, and we'll kick things off 248 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:01.600 with the six one four area code. Welcome to Show 249 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:04.000 sixty one four. Please say Jena and riclling from. 250 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.960 Hey Greg, Hey James, this is Adam calling from Colemas, 251 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:08.480 Ohio again. 252 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:09.360 How are you guys doing tonight? 253 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:10.559 Hey? Doing good? 254 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:10.840 Adam? 255 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:11.440 What's your mind? 256 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.159 A couple of things first, I'll start with a stream. 257 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:19.360 So time winner Cable Internet Provider PS three was the 258 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:23.639 media source, perfectly clear, maybe one of the best qualities 259 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:27.039 I've ever had, So I was gonna mention I did 260 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:32.159 think that something was going goofy with my stream. Once 261 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:36.240 the bray whyatt fiasco started, I was like, because it 262 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:38.279 kept repeating the same thing over and over and it 263 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:42.039 was not one of those you know blackouts three seconds 264 00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:46.399 the crowd's reacting. It was literally I you know, maybe 265 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:48.480 it was shorter, but it seemed like ten to fifteen 266 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:50.639 seconds at least for me, And I was almost ready 267 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:53.440 to fast forward or tried to see if something was 268 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:56.320 going on my stream, and then it came back and 269 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.440 I was like, okay, so yeah, so no, Adam, the 270 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:00.639 stream over people like. 271 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.559 That because they shouldn't scare peop because I think people 272 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:04.840 are gonna think that their stream is messed up. So yeah, 273 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:07.240 I will. I don't think they should scare people like that. 274 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:10.279 Yeah, I was totally convinced. I was like, and I 275 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.440 was like, no, what is going on? This is the 276 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:15.519 high spot or something's big happening, and now I got 277 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.600 to try to rewind or something. So I'd like, yeah, anyways, 278 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:22.279 so I'm I'm probably not alone in that. I'll just 279 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.000 give my my couple of thoughts, and I have a 280 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:27.960 question here. So I'd listened to the live past from 281 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:30.960 Thursday and I think it was I don't know who 282 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:32.480 it was, one of you guys, I'll say both of 283 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:35.080 you came up the idea that Foley's appearance on Raw 284 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.000 was was maybe a prelude to some type of a 285 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:42.200 high spot or an attempt to you know, his off 286 00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:45.480 the top shelf. It was good, obviously, that's for me, 287 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.120 that was the high spot of the match. But but 288 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.440 when they realized, you know, that the match quote unquote 289 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.000 hadn't started, that was kind of like, well, what was 290 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:56.600 the point of that? I mean that that should have 291 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:01.080 maybe gone outside of the for me, it would have 292 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.000 been better had they started the match inside, didn't gone 293 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:06.039 outside and done that that and then it seemed like 294 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:08.159 maybe it ended and then gone back in. I don't 295 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:11.080 know that that would that would have been interesting. Sure, 296 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:15.559 I'll probably take some heat from Sergeant or or some 297 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.480 other folks, but I thought best match with Sina Orton, 298 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:23.320 just just because, I'll tell you, I hated that finish. 299 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:26.440 I hated the finish or the rawlins Ambrose match. It 300 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:29.759 made no sense. As Greg mentioned, you know, if bray 301 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:32.399 Wyatt's goal is just to come out of nowhere and 302 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:37.399 start feuds with people just because with no background, that's 303 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.240 a real turn off. I mean, the pay per view 304 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:41.279 was really good overall. That was probably one of the 305 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:44.600 worst parts of it. I thought, I think that my 306 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.080 thoughts on this or that that they are actually now 307 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:52.000 almost in concrete with Rains against Lesnar at Mania. I 308 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:56.240 think they're gonna have either a survivor or at the rumble, 309 00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:01.320 it's gonna be Sena versus Lesnar. I think Lusner's gonna 310 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:04.920 win that match, and I think they are now back 311 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.640 into the Rains mode. That's just my opinion. I hope 312 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:10.880 I'm wrong, actually, And then The last thing I'll say 313 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:13.200 is I think the second best match of the night, 314 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:15.880 and I'm not joking here. I think you got to 315 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:19.039 give it up for the Bella twins. Nicki and Brie 316 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.400 put on a heck of a match. I mean it 317 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.440 was really good. I think Page and AJ actually looked 318 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.720 a step or two behind them. I'd like to hear 319 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.359 your thoughts on that, but overall on a ten point 320 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:33.640 scale and give it a six and a half to 321 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:35.200 oh seven. I thought it was a pretty good pay 322 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.640 per view with except for one of the screw screw 323 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.039 aut finishes with the I don't know if it was 324 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:44.400 Star Wars they were trying to do with the hologram 325 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:49.640 and the smoke or what, but it didn't work that well. Yeah, 326 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:51.759 the smoke came up and I saw the hologram. I'm like, 327 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:53.680 is that supposed to be very white? Because that's the 328 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.759 only thing I mean, obviously a lantern. But yeah, I 329 00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:58.920 didn't like to finish, if you can tell. But other 330 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:01.559 than that, I'll shut up and let you guys come. 331 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:03.680 I want to hear your thoughts though on the bell 332 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.079 match because I really actually enjoyed that. 333 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:09.319 Thank you, guys. I could call that I appreciate it. 334 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:10.000 Good kickoff. 335 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:12.319 Yeah, well let's start. 336 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:14.240 I'm like gonna mention the undercard. I think that again 337 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:17.119 that deserves some attention. I would have put the the 338 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:21.400 Intercontinental title two or three falls match, as then I 339 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:23.559 agreed I had seen Orton as a number one match 340 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:26.720 of the show. I would put Greg the Intercontinental title 341 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.680 match number two. Ambrose Rowlands that. Yeah, that's there's so 342 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.480 much there going on, a lot of breakdown. We'll get 343 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:34.559 to that in a second. But yeah, I mean, what 344 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:36.119 do you mean about the Bellows match? Was? You know, 345 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:40.640 we don't often see a good brother versus brother, you know, 346 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:42.839 the rare sister vers sister match. You know, Jeff and 347 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:44.880 Matt haven't always had good singles matches against each other. 348 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.680 They have to play one or two, but we all see 349 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.759 that too often. Booker and stev Ray, what were your 350 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:51.759 thoughts on that match? And I think it was Elliot 351 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:54.039 at the very least the surprise of the of the night. 352 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:58.039 I was really impressed, in fact, to have a match. 353 00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:02.720 I tweeted that I was surprised at how well timed 354 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:05.440 the match was, as far as the timing between the 355 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.960 two and how crisp and tight a lot of the 356 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.119 moves were because in some of the divas matches you 357 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:13.960 see a lot of light between moves and it's not 358 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.039 very hard hitting, I guess, is what I would say. 359 00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:19.960 But they did a really good job with both of 360 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.119 those things, and both of those boxes were checked for me, 361 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:25.960 and that surprised me. So I don't know if it's 362 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.440 working together because they're sisters, that they're more comfortable with 363 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:32.440 each other or what it was, but I was very 364 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:33.920 impressed as well with that match. 365 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:39.640 Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, 366 00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:43.000 will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress 367 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:46.599 Paradise at Pine Torch, VIP as we mask on the 368 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:49.279 bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the 369 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:53.759 great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan, 370 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.640 Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past 371 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.799 and the paradise too, and we've done Funnest Oracle shows 372 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:04.079 such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious 373 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:07.200 career of Juician thunder Lighter and Our Eye was There 374 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:09.640 When shows where our guests will join me to talk 375 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.240 about a classic bout that they were in attendance for. 376 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.400 We love variety and you can expect lots of it 377 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:20.200 at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PW Torch VIP subscription information 378 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:23.319 and a list of all the VIP benefits is available 379 00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:27.279 at pww torch vip info dot com. And yes, all 380 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:31.559 VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone 381 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:34.880 and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from 382 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.680 our ad free VIP mobile site See you in the Paradise. 383 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:44.920 It is also Adam mentioned in the Hell of the 384 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:48.319 Cell match. Yeah. They started they started the match brawling 385 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:50.400 on top of the sell. Yeah, and there was some 386 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:54.200 of that awkwardness of you know, the crowds booing because 387 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.319 they folk, you know, they're taking the bait that all 388 00:20:56.359 --> 00:20:59.440 this match isn't gonna happen. Uh, they might have also 389 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:02.240 been booing it the match had happened, the spot happened, 390 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.440 and then their t's in the match isn't even gonna conclude. 391 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.359 So either way, the crowd probably gonna was probably gonna 392 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:09.000 boo that sequence as people are being rolled out of 393 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:13.400 the ring or ring side. Greg Hindsight was out the 394 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:16.079 right way to go starting the match on the cell, 395 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:19.720 having the big bump. Then you kind of go around 396 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.440 the cell and then you send it back in the 397 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:23.880 ring and then the bell sound or should they have 398 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:25.759 done the you know, as Adams suggests, they have the 399 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:28.279 match go to the top spot, okay, if the match 400 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:30.480 going to continue, and then they make the way back in. 401 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:33.519