Speaker 1: Good evening, viewers, thank you for joining us on this
Speaker 1: lovely Wednesday night. Tonight, we have an article that examines
Speaker 1: the use of the Bible, particularly the Book of Revelation
Speaker 1: throughout American history, in characterizing certain immigrant groups by demonizing
Speaker 1: them with revelation like rhetoric. However, is this still occurring,
Speaker 1: and if so, is it being done on purpose or
Speaker 1: is it just a case that immigrant groups usually just
Speaker 1: happen to be demonized similarly, regardless of the time period
Speaker 1: or the circumstances they fall into. That is, are they
Speaker 1: blamed for a given society's problems and used to prey
Speaker 1: upon a given society's greatest fears. The Bible has not
Speaker 1: or is not only used to vilify immigrants, by the way,
Speaker 1: but it has been the justification for slavery, the subjugation
Speaker 1: of women, the slaughter of ethnic groups. It is a
Speaker 1: convenient instruction manual for any group in power to oppress
Speaker 1: smaller groups, the ones not in power, and those who
Speaker 1: also perceivedly pose a threat to the group that is
Speaker 1: in power. Is from RNs by ye John Lynn on
Speaker 1: October twenty fourth, twenty twenty four. All right, so we
Speaker 1: are looking at an article, right now that characterizes Americans
Speaker 1: throughout history as people who use the Bible to vilify immigrants. Obviously,
Speaker 1: immigration is an issue, a hot button issue in this country. So, Kelly,
Speaker 1: what's the significance of the author's message in this article.
Speaker 2: I think his name speaks volumes in that respect, right eye,
Speaker 2: John Lynn. It seems like he's getting he's a Christian
Speaker 2: and he's trying to get fellow Christians to re examine
Speaker 2: the rhetoric that they use. As far as I can see,
Speaker 2: I mean, here's it here. It's funny because he's really
Speaker 2: talking to non white over to white Western Christians who
Speaker 2: don't get the message that they themselves have been trying
Speaker 2: to spread around the world. That's kind of funny in
Speaker 2: that respect to me. But I think that's it. I mean,
Speaker 2: Jesus said to walk in the four oigners into your lands,
Speaker 2: and that's exactly what Christian nationalists aren't doing. You know,
Speaker 2: they're using religion by cherry picking Bible passages to push
Speaker 2: bigoted ideas. So is a refutation of the lessons in
Speaker 2: the Bible altogether that we're getting here, That's what I'm seeing.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like he's saying, hey, look Christians. You need to
Speaker 2: start being better Christians or stop calling yourself a Christian.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I got that from the article. I
Speaker 1: also thought, you know, this is kind of this article
Speaker 1: is a little bit misrepresented. It misrepresents American history somewhat
Speaker 1: because I think, especially you know, as you go through
Speaker 1: American history, you can survey that not all Americans are
Speaker 1: using the Bible to uphold these kind of values. I
Speaker 1: think that the Bible is used by people who benefit
Speaker 1: from vilifying certain people.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: We saw this with the slave Bible. We saw this
Speaker 1: throughout slavery. We see this in a lot of different areas.
Speaker 1: Like I, Like I mentioned in the in the intro,
Speaker 1: but what the author also talks about is the use
Speaker 1: of imagery, the kind of fire and brimstone stuff from
Speaker 1: revelation that really strikes fear into people. And I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to Eli about that. Eli, what is the
Speaker 1: significance of religious imagery in promoting the policies in the
Speaker 1: United States or any policy in general.
Speaker 3: Well, I kind of I touched on this on Monday Night.
Speaker 3: They the politicians have learned that don't have to believe
Speaker 3: what they're saying, They just have to get the right
Speaker 3: imagery like we're talking about or say the right things.
Speaker 3: So and it basically is is if they can terrify
Speaker 3: their voters enough into thinking that like, you know, hell
Speaker 3: awaits if you don't, you know, stop this terrible thing.
Speaker 3: That's clearly the devil causing this, and this is against
Speaker 3: what God wants. You know, if you don't vote against this,
Speaker 3: you're compliant or complicit and that it's it's ecological torture
Speaker 3: essentially to get into voting into their policies. Like I
Speaker 3: gave the example on the last episode about like immigration,
Speaker 3: if they just decide, okay, well here's the reason I
Speaker 3: really want more strict immigration. But that's not going to
Speaker 3: get the voters. What'll get the voters as if I
Speaker 3: say this thing about immigrants and the people, there are
Speaker 3: enough people who agree with that that it'll get me
Speaker 3: those votes. And that's essentially all it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, the the kind of hot button topic, right,
Speaker 1: the buzzwords that really get people and the images that
Speaker 1: are associated with those things. It's almost like a marketing
Speaker 1: tool using the Bible to vilify the people that you
Speaker 1: that you can in order to I guess gain support,
Speaker 1: you know, praying on the fears of Americans by vilifying
Speaker 1: a certain group and using imagery to do that. The
Speaker 1: thing that I think is funny about this that we
Speaker 1: really need to apply, and this comes with an education
Speaker 1: on the Bible, is that Revelation was written as kind
Speaker 1: of a cryptic text. It was written about the Romans, right,
Speaker 1: And you couldn't be you couldn't be a Hebrew and
Speaker 1: say things about the Romans without you know, being punished,
Speaker 1: as we see in the case of Jesus.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So this is essentially written by a smaller group about
Speaker 1: an invading force, right, about the Romans, about people from
Speaker 1: foreign lands coming into their country. And now we see
Speaker 1: it being used again that way, right, And we've seen
Speaker 1: it used multiple times throughout our history and throughout other histories.
Speaker 1: In Aaron, I want to talk to you about that.
Speaker 1: You know, how does the Book of Revelation, or maybe
Speaker 1: even the Bible in general relate to the human psyche
Speaker 1: and the kind of different circumstances we may find ourselves in.
Speaker 4: Well, the whole point of Revelation, like you said, is
Speaker 4: that Jesus wins, and if you're not with Jesus, you lose. Right,
Speaker 4: the revelations, there's some really poignant verses in the Book
Speaker 4: of Revelation about the people that you know make it
Speaker 4: to the end, that make it into heaven, their robes
Speaker 4: will be made white, and God will literally wipe all
Speaker 4: your tears from your eyes. Very poigt of right, who
Speaker 4: doesn't want to be part of the group that God
Speaker 4: where God is wiping the tears from your eyes? So
Speaker 4: the Book of Revelation is definitely an US versus them narrative,
Speaker 4: and it really encourages you to be part of the
Speaker 4: US because you're not part of the us. Holy cow,
Speaker 4: do you have some shit that you're gonna have to
Speaker 4: deal with?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: Plagues and death and famine and pestilence and all those
Speaker 4: awful horrible things. That's one of the points.
Speaker 2: And then an eternity in hell after.
Speaker 4: That, hell and fire and brimstone. And that's one of
Speaker 4: the points of this article is that when Revelation talks
Speaker 4: about the other they don't just say, oh, and then
Speaker 4: there's some other people that they just went their own way. No,
Speaker 4: they call these other people filthy, dogs, sorcerers, murderers, idolators,
Speaker 4: and awful horrible words to describe this other group that
Speaker 4: isn't part of the in group. That isn't part of
Speaker 4: the in crowd. And this isn't the Bible didn't come
Speaker 4: first and engendered this bigotry. It's the bigotry in all
Speaker 4: human beings that the Bible is then preying upon. Right.
Speaker 4: If we were to make way of our magic atheist
Speaker 4: wand and get rid of all religions, guess what we
Speaker 4: would still have all the problems we have today because
Speaker 4: religion isn't the problem. Religion feeds on the problems that
Speaker 4: we have just being human beings. We are bigoted, and
Speaker 4: it's really easy to get us worked up and other
Speaker 4: and tribal against other groups. It's really easy to get
Speaker 4: that fear response going, especially in uncertain times where people
Speaker 4: can't make ends meet, they can't they can't find a job.
Speaker 4: Even though people are saying no, it's easy to find
Speaker 4: a job, Well, how come I can't find a job, right,
Speaker 4: And so it's really when you're fearful and you're scared,
Speaker 4: it's really easy for people in power to take advantage
Speaker 4: of that fear. So I'm not getting into that as
Speaker 4: a skill that you have to learn to turn off.
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm talking about. You know, this kind
Speaker 1: of cookie cutter type pattern when we see this kind
Speaker 1: of rhetoric surface. Okay, now I'm going to walk kind
Speaker 1: of a fine line here because I don't want to
Speaker 1: be perceived as you know, kind of overtly bashing political
Speaker 1: candidates or leaders to be. But I do want to
Speaker 1: harken back to what our vice president elect said about
Speaker 1: his future boss, and that he called Donald Trump the
Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler of our time. And he's not alone in that, right.
Speaker 1: A lot of the language that Donald Trump has used,
Speaker 1: such as yeah, talking about immigrants poisoning the blood of
Speaker 1: our country, right and really minimizing them down to the
Speaker 1: vermin level, if you will, reflects a lot. I don't
Speaker 1: know if anybody has read mind Camp or even just
Speaker 1: skim through it, but Hitler's book, you know, really has
Speaker 1: a lot of comparisons about the Jews, and I want
Speaker 1: to say that there were uncertain certain times there as well.
Speaker 1: The economy was not good. People needed somebody to blame,
Speaker 1: and so they kind of attack these people using religon.
Speaker 1: If you consider the religious difference between the larger population
Speaker 1: of Germany and the Jewish people, right, religion is also
Speaker 1: at play in the United States, and I don't think
Speaker 1: it's all Americans doing it again. I think that there
Speaker 1: are certain people that are afraid of immigrants, and the
Speaker 1: people that need their support are playing on their fears
Speaker 1: by using religion and so on that note, you know, Kelly,
Speaker 1: I want to come back to you and just talk
Speaker 1: to you about that a little bit. You know, is
Speaker 1: it fair for this author to characterize Americans as people
Speaker 1: who use the Bible against others? Or or is it
Speaker 1: a larger problem? Isn't this a worldwide issue that we
Speaker 1: see more and more? Yeah, I mean we it is
Speaker 1: a worldwide issue, and we see it a lot. Here's
Speaker 1: the crazy thing. Though we don't see it in other
Speaker 1: first world countries. We only see that here in America.
Speaker 2: Right when we see that, we see that in third
Speaker 2: world countries and South America and in Africa, we see
Speaker 2: that militant Christianity being that's going to cleanse all the
Speaker 2: evil from the world.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So, I mean, and that I think is bothersome. Why
Speaker 2: is it that we here in America who could be
Speaker 2: that shining city on the hill are the ones who
Speaker 2: are spreading so much hatred. I don't get it. And
Speaker 2: especially when you talk to most Christians and they tell
Speaker 2: you that Jesus's message was a message of love and understanding,
Speaker 2: and yet they don't practice that, right it just do
Speaker 2: as I say, but not as I do. And it's
Speaker 2: pretty it's pretty bad, and it's nothing new. It's been
Speaker 2: going on for decades in this country. When the Irish
Speaker 2: were coming over here, they were portrayed in political cartoons
Speaker 2: as monkeys. Now, personally, I don't mind living up to
Speaker 2: being a monkey. That it'd be like a step up
Speaker 2: for me. But I don't think most people of Irish
Speaker 2: descent would agree with that. And it goes to show you, though,
Speaker 2: how US definitions of what is acceptable has changed. Right,
Speaker 2: You couldn't make fun of Irish people back then, but
Speaker 2: you can now have like the Notre Dame fighting Irish guy,
Speaker 2: which is still making fun of Irish people, but it's
Speaker 2: acceptable now. So it's yeah, it's kind of weird, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. And you bring up an interesting point,
Speaker 1: you know, is our Americans sensitized desensitized to hate over time,
Speaker 1: and do we just accept it as normal? Eli? You know,
Speaker 1: how long do we have to put up with this?
Speaker 1: I mean, should we accept it as normal? Or or
Speaker 1: or what's the alternative here? What do we do to
Speaker 1: denormalize the hatred.
Speaker 3: I think kind of between like the three of you,
Speaker 3: you guys have kind of touched on something that gives
Speaker 3: me the answer. I think it probably is just a
Speaker 3: sort of a thing that will naturally happen. I like
Speaker 3: to say a lot that the two things as humans
Speaker 3: are best at are pattern recognition and tribalism. And that's
Speaker 3: basically like those two things go hand in hand when
Speaker 3: it comes to like who is in my in group, right,
Speaker 3: there is this common characteristic between all of these people.
Speaker 3: They are were all born here in America or you
Speaker 3: know what we now call America. We're all born here.
Speaker 3: And you know, some people take that further. They're born
Speaker 3: here and they look a certain way, and they were
Speaker 3: born here and they look a certain way, and they
Speaker 3: believe this and they only sleep with these people. And
Speaker 3: the different people have different a different radius as to
Speaker 3: how big that circle goes. But that tribalism and that
Speaker 3: pattern recognition is just kind of that's just a part
Speaker 3: of who we are as like it's a part of
Speaker 3: our identity as an animal on this rock. So I think, yeah, honestly,
Speaker 3: it may just be a thing that just continues.
Speaker 1: That was actually excellent. I really like that idea of tribalism.
Speaker 1: You know, when I consider the political spectrum from conservative
Speaker 1: on the right to liberal on the left, and then
Speaker 1: fascism on the far right and socialism on the way
Speaker 1: or communism really on the way far left, the tribalism
Speaker 1: those people with the smaller radius tends to fall towards
Speaker 1: the fascist point right, and the people with the larger radius,
Speaker 1: those are a little bit more left leaning. Right, they
Speaker 1: will accept more people into their tribe, whereas the tribalism
Speaker 1: on the fascist side of things really want to keep
Speaker 1: their tribe small. They want to eliminate competition from other tribes,
Speaker 1: and that's where you kind of get the scale between
Speaker 1: fascism to communism, and so I thought that was spot on.
Speaker 1: You know, I think this kind of rhetoric comes from
Speaker 1: the tribal folks who are often associated with being conservative,
Speaker 1: who are often demonized as fascists, although I've heard leftists
Speaker 1: be called fascists and that actually doesn't work, that doesn't fit.
Speaker 1: But that's a topic for another show. But you also
Speaker 1: bring up pattern recognition, and I think somebody who wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about pattern humans being pattern matching machines is
Speaker 1: Aaron coming into the show. You talked a little bit
Speaker 1: about that, and I just wanted to see if you
Speaker 1: wanted to expand on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So yeah. As Eli said, our brains are literally
Speaker 4: wired to be pas matching machines. If anybody, if anybody's
Speaker 4: near a light socket right now, go ahead and look
Speaker 4: at it, or an electrical outlet, go ahead and look
Speaker 4: at it. What do you see a face? Right? You
Speaker 4: see two eyes in a mouth, But that's not it's
Speaker 4: not a face, it's electrical socket. Why do you see
Speaker 4: a face? Because your brain is pattern matching right. And
Speaker 4: it goes to such an extreme that when some people
Speaker 4: toast their toast, they can see Jesus. And a few
Speaker 4: months ago, somebody posted pictures of themselves the shirtless online
Speaker 4: and you can see Jesus in this person's abs. I
Speaker 4: kid you not. If you search for Jesus abs, there's
Speaker 4: a guy out there you can see Jesus in his abs.
Speaker 4: It's the craziest thing you've ever seen. This is such
Speaker 4: a common thing. There's actually a name for it. It's
Speaker 4: called appo fenia. The tendency to see meaningful connections between
Speaker 4: unrelated things, or this patterned magic ability and this is
Speaker 4: why books like the Bible can be a little bit
Speaker 4: dangerous because the Bible, when you speak in generalities like
Speaker 4: the Bible, there's no really specifics in their prophecies or
Speaker 4: in their here tos and what force and here's what's
Speaker 4: going to happen. Because they speak in such generalities, the
Speaker 4: human brain says, oh, well, I can map all these
Speaker 4: real world events onto these general things in the Bible,
Speaker 4: and that makes the Bible true. That's really that's really dangerous.
Speaker 4: And that's even more specific version of apple Fini. It's
Speaker 4: called paradolia, the tendency to impose meaning on things we
Speaker 4: perceive that don't actually have any meaning. Actual examples can
Speaker 4: include or shot rorshock block, blood tests, seeing the man
Speaker 4: in the moon, the face on Mars, and things like that.
Speaker 4: And so we have if we understand that's how our
Speaker 4: brain works, we can kind of take a step back
Speaker 4: and think, am I really seeing a pattern here? Is
Speaker 4: prophecy really true? Or is my brain imposing some kind
Speaker 4: of pattern on it? Because our brain literally likes to
Speaker 4: make shit up. Our brain has to know things, and
Speaker 4: it will literally make shit up so that it has
Speaker 4: a cohesive story and a cohesive worldview on things, So
Speaker 4: you have to be really, really careful.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I always thought my brain was the most important
Speaker 2: part of my body, and one day I realize what's
Speaker 2: telling me that exactly?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Kelly, you've got a fine brain. You
Speaker 1: often joke about being a monkey. Well you said tonight
Speaker 1: being a monkey'd be a step up. And you often
Speaker 1: joke about having two brain cells that stick together. But
Speaker 1: you know, I want to pick your brain cells and
Speaker 1: ask you.
Speaker 2: Never say pick your brain to a geologist?
Speaker 1: Why why is that?
Speaker 2: Because a rock picks a rock picks was a pick
Speaker 2: a rock pick?
Speaker 1: Oh, got it, got it? Got it? Okay, I thought
Speaker 1: you were telling me a really bad address for a second.
Speaker 2: What it was?
Speaker 1: You know, Kelly, you think that this kind of thing
Speaker 1: will eventually play out. You know, but what's the risk
Speaker 1: of not vehemently pushing back against this kind of thing?
Speaker 1: And should we be doing that? And where do we
Speaker 1: stand right now as a nation, as a as a
Speaker 1: country that has a history of weaponized marketing toward groups,
Speaker 1: you know, like immigrants.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I've got a lot of fears about
Speaker 2: where we're at right now. My son often says, we
Speaker 2: are just one major economic crisis away from fascism, and
Speaker 2: I think we've been in a cold civil war for
Speaker 2: years now because of it. And when we're when I
Speaker 2: see like promises of twenty percent tariffs being put on
Speaker 2: all everything we buy a Walmart, think about that, and
Speaker 2: that's going to be pushing us towards that economic maybe
Speaker 2: pushing us towards that major economic crisis. So I'm really
Speaker 2: worried about what could happen in the future. And I'm
Speaker 2: worried about people who don't fit the Christian nationalist demographic
Speaker 2: and what's going to happen to them. It's like, I
Speaker 2: don't think they're making an America for everybody. They're trying
Speaker 2: to make an America for them, and that scares me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think the fear is that maybe
Speaker 1: some people in power or people who are coming into
Speaker 1: might willingly drive the United States into a state of chaos.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to be conspiratorial, but I mean it's
Speaker 2: definitely a possibility.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I mean, let's look at we're not
Speaker 1: being conspiratorial, but this is an article that we're covering
Speaker 1: tonight that talks about kind of the patterns right of
Speaker 1: how religion can be used or how politics can be
Speaker 1: used to be divisive, and we covered what World War
Speaker 1: two was like in Germany and how that kind of
Speaker 1: sparked the fascism that we're you know, it sparked fascism.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to take the leap and say the
Speaker 1: kind of fascism that we're afraid of, but it certainly did.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you know, so in those fears that many
Speaker 1: people have, I think rests the possibility that some people
Speaker 1: might willingly be willing to go be ready to go
Speaker 1: down that road. And that's what strikes me.
Speaker 2: But yeah, just to point I wanted to make real quick,
Speaker 2: is that if Jesus were born today and he's said
Speaker 2: the same parable today, it would probably be the good
Speaker 2: Mexican because that's the way Samaritans were looked upon in
Speaker 2: his day, which is why he chose the Samaritan, right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I mean, just to bring that to our modern times,
Speaker 2: that would be that purble today, the good Mexican, the
Speaker 2: guy from outside the country who came to my aid
Speaker 2: when nobody else would.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, man, there's there's so many ways to take this,
Speaker 1: I think. I think in short, you know, this really
Speaker 1: comes down to, uh, since we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: politics and religion, and we we harkened on that a
Speaker 1: little or we harped on that a little bit. On
Speaker 1: Monday Night show, we talked about education in politics. You know,
Speaker 1: with a better education, people can get a better understanding
Speaker 1: of what it is they actually believe and ascribe to. Right,
Speaker 1: Jesus said, uh, accept, you know, love your neighbor and
Speaker 1: welcome immigrants and you know, be kind to everybody. But
Speaker 1: that's not what we see. And that's because there's no
Speaker 1: education really uh in working against these kind of tribalist
Speaker 1: views and have people open up their patterns or break
Speaker 1: their patterns. Lightning round, gentlemen, Eli, We're gonna finish off
Speaker 1: starting with you, so we'll go Eli, Aaron Kelly, Eli,
Speaker 1: what do you have with us to close out on?
Speaker 3: I didn't have another thought too, Like you mentioned like
Speaker 3: is it all Americans that's doing this or is it
Speaker 3: just like some of them are? And I think that's
Speaker 3: probably a lot more accurate. There is a group that are,
Speaker 3: but like there's groups of Americans that describe people based
Speaker 3: on like their Hogwarts house at the same time, so
Speaker 3: I think like we should also like is it necessarily
Speaker 3: endemic that it is happening in the US. It was
Speaker 3: just that's not that I had interesting comparison. The fact
Speaker 3: that you can describe someone that way doesn't mean anything
Speaker 3: about like the reality of who they are, which is
Speaker 3: the the point that gets missed most of the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Aaron, you know your your comment about seeing
Speaker 1: Jesus in someone's abs, there's probably a whole lot of
Speaker 1: clergy members that are living in the closet surfing the
Speaker 1: way right now trying to find that photo. So good
Speaker 1: on you, But what do you got for us to
Speaker 1: wrap things up?
Speaker 4: Be really careful, be really skeptical of people that use
Speaker 4: fear to motivate you. They use fear to get power
Speaker 4: because they're trying to tie into our base in our
Speaker 4: tribalism as a human species. They're trying to get into
Speaker 4: that deep reptilian animal instinct part of us. We have
Speaker 4: to fight against it. Like I said, it's a skill.
Speaker 4: We have to learn to not let fear drive us
Speaker 4: and make us choose. Because from all everything that I
Speaker 4: know and understand, immigrants are not the problem. Immigrants are
Speaker 4: not taking our jobs. Immigrants are not more violent than
Speaker 4: other people. As you know. Fifty one hundred years ago,
Speaker 4: we didn't have an immigration policy. If you want to
Speaker 4: live in the United States, you got on a boat,
Speaker 4: you sailed across the ocean, you got off, and guess
Speaker 4: what you lived in America. This idea of closed borders
Speaker 4: is a new invention for our country. So immigration is
Speaker 4: not the problem. So what's the problem. Maybe think about
Speaker 4: that for a while.
Speaker 1: Excellent. Finally, our resident geologist, Kelly, you know, you said
Speaker 1: we got to educate people, and I mentioned on Monday night,
Speaker 1: I mentioned the Carlon effect.
Speaker 2: Common sense isn't that smart? And half the people are
Speaker 2: dumber than that. So how do you educate the people
Speaker 2: that you literally cannot educate? And Aaron touched on it
Speaker 2: animal instincts, We gotta I think maybe our the left
Speaker 2: needs to get better at appealing to animal instincts. And
Speaker 2: there are other instincts besides fear, Like a dog really
Speaker 2: loves having it's tummy rubbed, right, So maybe we need
Speaker 2: to start thinking about how we can rub society's tummy
Speaker 2: and get a lot of those people on our side.
Speaker 1: Maybe a Tommy that's got Jesus in it, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: an ice rock card set of abs. Yeah. Well, interesting,
Speaker 1: interesting conversation. You know, of course we never have enough time.
Speaker 1: I could probably talk about this for hours, you know,
Speaker 1: using the Bible to market fear, market hatred, not any
Speaker 1: new concept. Maybe immigration is a new concept, or closed
Speaker 1: borders or a new concept. Maybe the idea of the
Speaker 1: United States dipping into or slipping into fascism might be
Speaker 1: a new concept. But if the road that we take
Speaker 1: to get there is the weaponization of the Bible and
Speaker 1: the vilification of minority groups by using religion and preying
Speaker 1: on each other's fears, it's the same old stuff, and
Speaker 1: that's the pattern that we're falling into, and it's the
Speaker 1: tribalism that is so dangerous for our country. So we
Speaker 1: really do need to separate religion and government. We talk
Speaker 1: about that here a lot on the nonprofits, So if
Speaker 1: you want to see