WEBVTT 1 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:19.679 Hello, and welcome to the wadd You're Talking About Willis 2 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:25.519 Podcast with atp. Sixty Marcus Willis and me his mate Dave. 3 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:31.719 Now you heard that right, Marcus is eightp six zero 4 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:37.359 whoa Marcus is having a week's rest. But earlier in 5 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:40.159 the year, we caught up with Ollie Clark, who's a 6 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:45.960 friend of Marcus, a tennis coach and a mental health campaigner. 7 00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:50.840 In this special This is Your Lifestyle episode, Ollie talks 8 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.640 about his relationship with tennis, how are you cross pass 9 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:56.439 with Marcus, and what life looks like on and off 10 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:00.359 the court. This episode does discuss some sensitive topics related 11 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:03.240 to the mental health that some listeners may find disturbing. 12 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:06.840 If you or someone you know is struggling, please don't 13 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.599 carry it alone. Reach out to a trusted friend, family member, 14 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:15.280 mental health charity, or contact the Samaritans. I hope you 15 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:20.480 enjoy hearing at p. Sixty Marcus Willis. By the way, 16 00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:22.120 if you see him in the street and assist and 17 00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:25.079 we call him in, that's really getting me down. Me 18 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:30.319 is mate, Dave, and our star guest this week, Holly Clark. 19 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:35.879 So I started playing tennis. I think it was about 20 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:39.959 three or four, like my mum had a friend that 21 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:44.760 was a tennis coach and we just went as all 22 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:47.120 the local villages, went down to the local court and 23 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:51.319 just played. That's how we did it. Didn't think much 24 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:53.239 of it. I mean, the lady in question, the coach, 25 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:56.000 must have been about seventy at the time, so god 26 00:01:56.040 --> 00:02:01.920 knows how old cheers now and honestly I look back 27 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:05.640 now and thinking you're really old at that point. But 28 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:08.400 she was great, you know, she got she got us 29 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:11.319 interested and that was it. And I joined then my 30 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:14.000 local club, which was done Mo Tennis Club in Essex 31 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:16.560 because it was just down the road from me, and 32 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:20.360 I stayed there pretty much until I left coaching there 33 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:23.240 what four and a bit years ago, and just worked 34 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:26.360 my way up through just playing and then assistant coaching 35 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:30.120 and coaching. So just did that. That's how it all 36 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:34.240 got going. It was nothing, nothing major, It just was. 37 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:36.560 It kind of just fell onto my lap. That makes sense. 38 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:39.240 So many people's journeys in tennis are a bit like that, 39 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:41.280 aren't they. It's just the addiction of it. 40 00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:42.560 So what were you? What were you? 41 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:45.280 How are you playing as a kid? Were you competing? 42 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:47.439 Were you playing multiple times a week? Was it part 43 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:50.120 of like a secondary sport or or was it just 44 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:51.400 an obsession. 45 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:54.039 If I was younger, I think it was more of 46 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:58.800 like a secondary sport. My main one was football, and 47 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:02.159 then I quickly realized I wasn't any good at that, 48 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:06.439 so I thought, you know what, I'll go with tennis. 49 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:08.199 And I did a bit of golf as well, but 50 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:11.400 then I just signed up I think from about thirteen fourteen. 51 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:15.159 Would then start playing regularly a couple of times a week, 52 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:17.840 would start playing to the local team for the club teams. 53 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:22.800 I wouldn't go and play many tournaments as such, because 54 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:25.759 my dad used to work away a lot in Nigeria, 55 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:27.360 so it would be left hand to my mum and 56 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:29.439 she couldn't get me to tournaments quite a lot because 57 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:31.759 as my sister as well, who was doing other stuff. 58 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:35.719 So I just competed quite locally really, and then got 59 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:38.360 in the adult team from the age of like fifteen 60 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:40.759 and that was it really, So I wouldn't say I 61 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:45.080 competed loads as a kid. I haven't really competed that 62 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:48.120 much at all, truth be told, just loved it. 63 00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:51.039 Well, I mean you say that, Oli, but apparently there 64 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:53.719 was quite a big exhibition match a couple of years 65 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:55.560 back in December. 66 00:03:57.479 --> 00:03:58.520 Quite a big exhibition. 67 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:01.000 I mean, yeah, December twenty three, that was it. 68 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:01.960 Yeah exactly. 69 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:03.400 I mean it was a huge exhibition. 70 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:05.039 Double was huge exhibition. 71 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:05.360 Double. 72 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:09.080 Oh my, that only Clark, Wow. 73 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:10.919 Exactly. 74 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:13.439 I mean I always just say, you know when when 75 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:15.879 you know, Marcus at the time was what one eighty 76 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.240 surrounding the world. He had one afternoon with me, and 77 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:20.199 then suddenly he's down in the top seventy. You know. 78 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:22.240 So I think I'm the start of the process through 79 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:22.800 if we're sold. 80 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:23.240 Wow. 81 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:25.920 Yeah. And I mean, look, I'm no lawyer, but I 82 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:29.040 think fifteen percent of prize money is a minimum here. 83 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:30.680 I think it's a standard, isn't there. 84 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:33.839 Yeah, yeah, fifteen percent and nothing is nothing. 85 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:40.600 I'll still take fifteen percent exactly. 86 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:41.199 Yeah. 87 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:43.439 So is that how you two have met? You two 88 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:44.759 met in exhibitions? 89 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:46.959 Marcus he put out, didn't you on one of the 90 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:48.839 tennis group chats, didn't you about you know, looking to 91 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:50.720 come down and help some clubs out and stuff like that, 92 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:53.279 And I thought I'd just jump at the chance, got 93 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:55.839 in touch and we kind of went from there, didn't we. 94 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:58.160 Yeah, I know it was good. I think that's the 95 00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:00.959 first time we met in person. We were both on 96 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:03.600 the Facebook group, the tennis coaches Facebook groups? 97 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:04.519 Is that the one? 98 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:11.319 And yeah, yeah, people don't need to know. 99 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:16.879 We'll we'll remember it at four o'clock in the morning. Yeah. 100 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:19.800 So, so I got some time in the in the 101 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:24.319 off season, went down, you know, did some stuff with 102 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:26.959 the juniors, with the adults, and played an exhibition. I've 103 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.120 got to say my partner carried me to Jeremy. 104 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:34.439 Is it it was Jeremy? Yeah, yeah, my partner was 105 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:40.600 My partner was severely hungover it'd be on a lawyer's 106 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:42.920 work do, and literally got to the courts. 107 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.279 Yeah, I didn't need the proper way to play a 108 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:53.279 tennis match. Right, So you're set up now, you're set 109 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:56.879 up now in where you are? What does that look like? 110 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:02.439 And yeah, tell about your standard a week coaching? 111 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:08.680 Oh wow. So I mean you've got I do individuals 112 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:12.319 in the day, which I can't do at the center 113 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.120 that I'm based at because it's also a secondary school, 114 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:19.079 so for safeguarded reasons, you can't go in in the day. 115 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:23.000 So I do lots of individuals or small groups with adults, 116 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:26.120 but the day I'll go and do your primary school stuff. 117 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.079 And then you head off to the center and you 118 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:33.199 do your junior groups, your adult groups throughout the week 119 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:37.560 and at the weekend, and throwing as well. Now a 120 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:41.160 little bit of sort of pe what do you call it? 121 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:44.000 Ppa cover. I'm now started doing a little bit pee 122 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.399 teaching as well in a couple of primary schools, which 123 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:50.040 has added a little bit of difference. But it's a 124 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:53.079 great feeder forget people interested in playing in our in 125 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:57.639 our sport. Yeah, mixture of ages between the youngest we've 126 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:02.120 got is three and then our oldest is mid seventies, 127 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:04.680 so a wide variety of players. 128 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:09.839 Do you love it, Ollie, is because you know, coach 129 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:13.759 to coach? Do you just love being out there? Because 130 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:17.720 I've never found anything that replaces being on a court, 131 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:23.720 seeing the improvement, the upskilling whatever. Just the environment of 132 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:26.639 a tennis club is an addiction for me. And the 133 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:28.839 idea of being like a head coach who doesn't work 134 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:33.800 or being a tutor or it's never I know, nothing 135 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:35.959 can replace taking groups. 136 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:39.639 Are you still the same? I've got to say actually 137 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:43.839 now since I've set up by myself, so I'm not 138 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:46.879 a club as such, I'm just a program coaching program. 139 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.560 So it's all down to me. I love it more 140 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:52.800 than I have ever done before, and I can't. I 141 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:56.079 just love being on court. It's just the best feeling, 142 00:07:56.199 --> 00:08:00.279 it really is, and I feel like I'm I've generally 143 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:02.199 you feel I'm actually getting better as I'm getting older 144 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:06.839 as well as a coach, more experienced, more knowledge and 145 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:07.800 willing to learn. 146 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:09.879 Well, that's where you and I did, for I already 147 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:11.680 know everything, so I don't need to learn. 148 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:12.920 I'm very fortunate. 149 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:19.439 That's lovely. Obviously, I've come to know you more than 150 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:23.240 just you know through tennis, Olie. You've been a great 151 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:28.240 friend to me, and you've got a really powerful, full 152 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:30.759 story your end that I think you know you've told 153 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:38.240 you know certain Could you tell me where you were 154 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:43.279 this time kind of just over three years ago and 155 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:48.720 how you came to that and how you overcame that Situationally. 156 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:56.480 Yes, So it was yes, twenty three now, my marriage 157 00:08:57.080 --> 00:09:01.480 coming to an end, and I'd already had a bout 158 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:08.720 of depression back in twenty twenty one. I think the 159 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:11.200 lockdown was a massive factor. I was having a lot 160 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:14.000 of issues with my tennis club at the time, and 161 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:17.320 having a newborn in the house. I just didn't feel 162 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:20.519 like I was I was good enough for anyone, really, 163 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:24.759 and then twenty three all hit everything at once and 164 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.840 I genuinely saw no way out, and I thought the 165 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:32.720 only way out would be to leave this, to leave 166 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:37.000 this earth. And I'm very open and honest and about 167 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:42.759 talking with that, and I just well, while I couldn't 168 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:48.159 do it, I couldn't do it to Sophia and my family. 169 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:51.559 And then I thought, right, okay, let's get some let's 170 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:54.399 get some serious help, and let's and start helping myself 171 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:59.120 and making me better. So, yeah, I was in I 172 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:04.399 was in a rough place, no doubt in that. But 173 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:08.240 I look backer now and I go, that was a 174 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:10.960 great time if you look at it that sense, because 175 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:13.480 you look how far I or anyone else in that 176 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:15.840 situation can come. 177 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:19.960 Well, I really appreciate you talking to us about this, 178 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:23.080 and it's something that Marcus and I have spoken about 179 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:27.679 on previous podcasts. But this is something that definitely the 180 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:32.720 discourse amongst men is changing, and men are able, hopefully 181 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:36.600 now to feel freer to talk about these subjects. What 182 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:40.639 does depression feel like for you? How does it manifest? 183 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.840 Oh? So it used to manifest in a few different ways. Actually, 184 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:52.879 So I've had a neurological condition since the age of 185 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:57.559 about seventeen, where I would get pins and needles all 186 00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:00.200 over my body and I'd lose I'd almost do the 187 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:03.960 ability to do stuff like even silly things like holding 188 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:05.919 a glass. The cup would just fall out of my 189 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:08.159 hand and it would smash on the floor, and the 190 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:09.840 pins and needles will then go all over the body. 191 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:12.799 And that's the that's brought on by stress and anxiety 192 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:15.879 a lot of the time. So that's how it would start. 193 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.799 I would start feeling I'd get the pins and needles, 194 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:22.360 and I'd feel ill, and then it would just spiral 195 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.120 into my brain would just go well, I'm just not 196 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:30.039 good enough and I'm not worthy of anyone or anything, 197 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:33.399 and I would I would shut off from the world. 198 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:37.960 But then on court, I would be game face on 199 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:42.559 and whack this wonderful smile on which actually a lot 200 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:44.519 of people saw through and saw it was a fake smile. 201 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:48.000 Because I think as coaches or even as players, you know, 202 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:51.360 you have to have to do a job right, and 203 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:54.960 you have to be there for your clients, and you 204 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:59.120 have to look like your love in life, and when 205 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:02.360 and and then I think that's tiring. And then when 206 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:04.000 they used to come home. I just didn't want to 207 00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:11.039 do anything. Ah And yeah, now it's hugely different, you know, 208 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:13.440 with with the tools I've got and you know, work 209 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:15.919 you do on it doesn't mean you're ever going to 210 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:19.679 be okay all the time, because you're not. You can't be. 211 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:23.000 But yeah, for me, it was just a spiral really 212 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:26.919 and just I would have no motivation to do anything. 213 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:29.200 Yeah, I can. 214 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.840 I can relate to a lot of that, especially the 215 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:35.879 part about turning up and putting on the smiley face. 216 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.480 And you know, I call it for me, it was 217 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:42.159 playing an actor and I found especially like looking back, 218 00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:44.919 I've only just figured this out recently, but you know, 219 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:47.639 most of my life when I was younger as acting 220 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:53.120 fitting in and you know, not want people to see 221 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:56.679 what I'm really feeling because I was embarrassed. 222 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:56.960 About it as well. 223 00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:01.320 But it's such as it's such a complex thing and 224 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:07.279 we get so good at it gets acting as to say, 225 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:09.600 or putting on a smiley face. And I think it's 226 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.600 a good skill somewhat because I think personally when I 227 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:15.279 was in it, I didn't want to bring people down 228 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:19.559 or you know, have that kind of attention. But it's 229 00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:21.919 also a desperate place to be in as well, and 230 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:26.759 you know it's it's dangerous. You know, my my head's gone. 231 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:29.080 As far as you know, there was a there was 232 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:32.039 a phase a few years back, probably just over five 233 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.840 years ago, where I didn't want to die, but I 234 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:39.039 didn't want to live and actually, had I something bad 235 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:40.799 happened to me or you know, a pasthedway, I had 236 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:42.559 have gone, ah, that that that would be good because 237 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:44.799 then people feel sorry for me. But then I'm not 238 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:48.720 in pain anymore. And I used to think stuff like 239 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.159 you know, people around would be sad, but you know 240 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:55.559 they'll be all right in the end. And you know, 241 00:13:55.799 --> 00:14:00.840 it's a pretty devastating place to be. As you say, 242 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:04.080 the motivation to do anything just goes. So I can 243 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.279 relate to you, and I know we've we've chatted in detail, 244 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:09.960 you know, personally, and thank you for being such a 245 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:13.840 good friend. We chat a lot, and it's it's nice 246 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.639 to be to have that outlet and check in each other. 247 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:21.279 But how did you get better? How did things start 248 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:25.559 looking up? Who helped you know this? This this part 249 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.039 I want you know if someone's listening and struggling or 250 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.600 know someone that's listening and struggling, we want them to 251 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:34.639 know there's a way out and just explain how how 252 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:36.720 you did that and what life looks like now. 253 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:42.519 Yeah, so I said, I remember it vividly. It was 254 00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:46.320 the fifteenth of feb twenty twenty three and I've gone 255 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:49.960 out for a walk and I'd actually collapsed with my condition, 256 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:54.080 my neurological condition, and I was rushed off to Broomfield 257 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:59.200 Hospital in Chelmsford. And well, what was a bit strange 258 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.799 was the parent medic who came to look after me 259 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:06.399 was a member of the tennis club that i'd left 260 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:08.960 only two years what a couple of years, two years beforehand, 261 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:12.559 and we hadn't spoken since because it'd all a bit gone, 262 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:14.720 a bit awry. And I looked at him, I was like, 263 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:16.879 that's the last person I need to look after me. 264 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:19.879 But they were just amazing with me, and they noticed 265 00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:21.759 the signs straight away. They like, you need to get 266 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:27.120 yourself like checked out, like properly, not just physically mentally. 267 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:31.159 And I remember I'm sitting in the hospital and I 268 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:33.279 said I could just walk out of here and just 269 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.279 go and no one would notice. And then this doctor 270 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:40.919 just called me and that was it. And my parents 271 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:43.360 and my sister at the time when they were living 272 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.320 they still they live in Norfolk, and they my dad 273 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:49.279 wasn't quite sure what to do with it, like thinking, 274 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.320 is it is this a bit of a is he 275 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:54.919 not saying is he making it up? But this is 276 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:57.039 he just playing on this a little bit. I think 277 00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:59.679 as a generation thing, maybe some people of that age 278 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.240 don't understand it. And it was my sister was like, no, 279 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:04.799 we need to drive down and go and see him, 280 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:06.159 you know, we need to go and pick him up 281 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:10.080 from the hospital first of all. And she came down 282 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.320 with my dad and my dad just took one look 283 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.399 at me and was like I get it. I get it, son, 284 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:20.200 you know, and like hugged me, you know. And my 285 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.799 dad's not a real hugger as such, and he just 286 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:25.799 got hold of me and was like, yeah, you're okay, son. 287 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:28.080 And my sister did the same, and they took me 288 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:32.919 back to their house up in Norfolk, and he really 289 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:36.039 really got it. I mean I opened up to him 290 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:37.399 and I said, Dad, I don't want to be here anymore, 291 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:42.279 and he was. And for my dad to cry at 292 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:43.840 the age at that point what it was, what mid 293 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:48.360 seventies for him to cry was hard to see. Yeah, 294 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:53.639 he but then I think he really understood how low 295 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:59.919 I was. And my mum and my were going to 296 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:02.559 be now my brother in law, they were all there 297 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:04.240 with my with my sister as well, and they just 298 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:06.319 sat me run a table and just let me speak. 299 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:09.960 So they were the first people that were on hand 300 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:13.279 and were just able to speak to me and let 301 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:15.480 me speak and be open and honest, even if it 302 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.319 was you know, it could have been even like a 303 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.559 bad thing about them. You know, let's get it all 304 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:22.599 done out in the open, get it on the table 305 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:25.519 and we can move forwards. So did it with them. 306 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:28.000 And at the time I also had private medical insurance 307 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:35.480 with Vitality, which had counseling sessions available, and I just 308 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:39.640 booked in with them. And I can't remember her. I 309 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:43.119 can't remember her name, she who she was, but my goodness, 310 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:47.119 me did she just pretty much saved me as well. 311 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.400 So they were that was the first point of call. 312 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:55.400 And I had therapy for a good, good sort of 313 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.920 eighteen months with that, and if I needed it again, 314 00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:59.559 I'd go back to it in a shop. 315 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:06.160 On an earlier podcast, Dotie, we spoke about some trials, tribulations, 316 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:10.480 ups and down, some mental health perspective Marcus and I 317 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:14.720 have had, and therapy was part of that. Something that 318 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:18.920 I've always suffered with is like a lack of confidence, 319 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.880 a small ego, negative self taught, lack of belief and almost, 320 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:26.720 like Marcus said, putting a game face on, which is 321 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:31.079 far from that, the most opposite. So somebody who would 322 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:34.000 meet me or maybe even listen to this would think 323 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:36.640 there's someone who's never short of a word, happy to 324 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:39.799 walk in a busy room, and it's actually the opposite. 325 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:43.920 It spikes my anxiety being around people too much, kind 326 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:49.359 of perhaps me of enthusiasm. I wish that I could 327 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:52.839 go back to my sixteen year old, eighteen year old, 328 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:56.359 twenty one year old self and just explain what's happening 329 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:02.160 and why why you don't need to go down this path. 330 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:06.279 What would you say to yourself twenty years ago? 331 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.519 Life is what you make it, and nothing is ever 332 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:18.279 too big. You know, there's nothing that can that should 333 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:20.319 be able to really take hold of you. You know, 334 00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:22.960 I'm sure all of us in our lives have you know, 335 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:28.279 felt lost or tragedy and stuff like that. And it's 336 00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:30.759 I actually look at it this week in particular. So 337 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:36.240 I'm fortunate to put my dog down this week, and 338 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.559 my little girl, Sophia, she's five and a half and 339 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:42.799 she kind of doesn't dwell on it. And I think 340 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.039 we all need to be like children in the way 341 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:47.599 that we the way that they think, because we as 342 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:52.200 adults can overanalyze, overthink and read into even like a 343 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:55.680 message or someone, how they how they say something, how 344 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:58.720 you interpret it. Kids don't do that. And I think 345 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:01.400 that's if you were sixteen, eight teen, twenty one, I 346 00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:03.599 think that's almost the same. So if I could go 347 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.039 back now, I'd almost say don't worry about it, like 348 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.599 don't worry about life, because now if people want to 349 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:12.319 be around me, they'll be around me. And if they 350 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.039 don't want to be around me, it's one less person 351 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:18.039 of me to worry about, or one less thing to 352 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:21.960 worry about or concern myself with. My circle of friends 353 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.920 is a lot smaller now than it was twenty years ago, 354 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:29.039 but were they friends probably not. As it said, I'm 355 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.279 the same as you, Dave. I'll go into a room 356 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:35.240 and I don't really like being around people that much, 357 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:37.680 truth be told, I'm quite happy in my own space 358 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:39.920 and my own company or the people I want to 359 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:41.839 be with and I put on this face, but now 360 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.160 I don't anymore. If I don't want to go somewhere, 361 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:48.079 I won't go. And I'm really like I have the 362 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:53.680 I've said. I can now learn the word no, which 363 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:54.440 I never did before. 364 00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:57.440 That's such a good skill to have, mate, I'm still 365 00:20:57.519 --> 00:20:58.160 learning that. 366 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.599 I'm still I don't. Yeah, I'm the same. I don't. 367 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:04.000 It's amazing. Like you put a tennis racket in my 368 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:06.240 hand and put me on a big court. I'll go 369 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:09.720 and play because I love playing tennis. But you know, 370 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:13.559 public speaking stuff like that or Q and a's are fine. 371 00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:13.440 But. 372 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:19.519 Actually, like busy, busy crowds, I don't get out much 373 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:21.400 nowadays because I just want to be I want to 374 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:23.160 be at home. I'll go for a walk and stuff, 375 00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:27.720 but any event, stuff like that, especially now, you know 376 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:29.359 I used to I used to think I had to 377 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.880 drink or get some booze down me to socialize and 378 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.799 loosen up. And then you take that drink away and 379 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:39.160 you stood there and you're scared, is probably the right 380 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:43.960 way of saying it. Uncomfortable. So I'm the same. I 381 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:48.519 don't do much much public stuff nowadays, and my friend 382 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:52.400 group is a lot smaller, so I can completely relate 383 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:52.640 to that. 384 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:53.720 It's it's but. 385 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:55.559 I always used to try and try and fight it 386 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:58.519 and go Now it's normal. But actually a lot of 387 00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:00.359 other people are in the same position that room that 388 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.519 there's not not many people who absolutely love, you know, 389 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:07.680 socializing events, especially if they're not off their trolley as well. 390 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:12.680 So yeah, I suppose everyone's different. But oh did you 391 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:14.480 find when you're you. 392 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:16.680 Know, going going through what you're going through and rehab, 393 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:22.119 did you find getting outside playing tennis did that help 394 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:22.640 you at all? 395 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:23.519 Or was it. 396 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:27.839 Did that just you know, pick up hand in hand? 397 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.440 Did you always have tennis there as an outlet? Did 398 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:33.680 you go on court and forget everything for a little 399 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.119 bit or you. 400 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.359 Know, was it a bit more timely than that? 401 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:43.720