WEBVTT

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Hi, This is Fred Green of
golf Smarter with the eighth appearance that Tony

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Manzoni made on golf Smarter number four
hundred and fifty six that was recorded back

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in September of twenty fourteen. This
is the first of two consecutive episodes from

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that month as we're getting close to
the end of our annual series as we

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spring back into golf season with Tony
Manzoni. Tony's book The Lost Fundamental,

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One Simple Move Better Golf Forever is
available on Amazon in paperback and on kindle

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format, and the DVD that he
created, which we converted to a private

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link online, is also available when
you write to me. For the most

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comprehensive information ever collected on Tony,
please go to Golfsmarter dot com. Slash

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Tony and Tony is all lowercase.
If you'd like access to that video,

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please write to me directly golf Smarter
Podcast at gmail dot com, or just

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click on the Heyfred button when you
visit golf smarter com for members only.

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Golf Smarter number four hundred and fifty
six published on September thirty, twenty fourteen.

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You're headed address Hitting behind the Ball
in more Part one with Tony Mantoni.

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This is Golf Smarter. Welcome back
to the Golf Smarter podcast. Tony,

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Hey, Fred, how are you. I'm doing fine. It's nice

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to have you back on the show. I apologize immediately for the banging,

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but there's some construction being done outside
my office, so if it sounds like

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someone's knocking to get in, I'm
not answering the door. All right,

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you got it? How things going
down there in Palm Desert, I get

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It's amazing, continues to be amazing. This is what your ninth appearance on

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Golf Smarter, and every time you're
on there's this just a tremendous reaction to

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your work and purchases of your book
and your video, The Lost Fundamental.

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It's well, that really pleases me
to hear, obviously, and hopefully this

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ninth podcast will generate more interest.
Yeah. Well again, the book is

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called The Loss Fundamental. It's also
the name of a DVD and it's only

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available on Golf Smarter website because your
site's not working properly. But maybe we'll

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get that fixed too. And we're
still to those of you who are not

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in the United States, we apologize, but we're still trying to figure out

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how to make both the book and
the video available as a digital download.

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At this point it's not, but
as soon as it is, we'll let

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you know. So that's we're working
on that. So how's the team doing

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down to College of the Desert.
Well, this is a rebuilding period for

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us. Last year's team primarily broke
off to other colleges and so forth,

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and that's always problemly to your schools. You can't build a dynasty. But

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that being said, we did win
our twenty eighth conference championship in a row.

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Then you have built a dynasty.
It is a little crazy, and

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I think that we've got a shot
at twenty nine. I brought in a

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bunch of boys that are freshmen,
but they're good players. They just need

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guidance like always, and that's my
job. So you know, we have

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high hopes again, Fred, Yeah, awesome. How is it, Tony?

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Now you're dealing with kids that are
eighteen nineteen years old primarily? Correct?

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That's correct? And how you're not
close to that age, you're probably

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closer to their grandparents' age. How's
your communication? Well, well, I'm

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trying to be nice about age is
a number to me. It always has

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been. Yeah, you're right,
But I've been lucky enough to stay current

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with everything that I can. I
try to stay current with music. It

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doesn't please me as much as Frank
Sinatra, but I still stay current with

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it. And I try to keep
myself at their level and try to understand

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what they're going through, what their
peer pressure is, and so forth,

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because if I'm going to be an
effective a teacher, and I am a

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teacher, I've got to understand where
they're coming from. And then we kind

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of meet in the middle somewhere.
So that would be the Beatles. If

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that's the middle, we're going from
the forties to twenty twenties. Well,

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I mean just the things that they
do recreationally that I didn't do, and

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the things that they strive for that
I didn't strive for. You know,

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the PGA Tour, for instance,
it was a very very small faction.

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I didn't have any dreams of being
I wanted to play competitive golf. But

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you can become a zillionaire playing professional
golf at when I played now, I

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mean, you know, first prize
when I played a lot of terms for

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five thousand dollars was first prize,
and you know, everything today is pretty

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close to a million or more,
and there was no endorsement because golf really

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wasn't an important sport on television.
It is now. I've been watching the

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Ryder Cup and it's just it's amazing. It's like the Super Bowl. Really.

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Yeah. Actually, the last episode
that we did, Neil Sagabel,

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author of The Drawing the Dunes,
he was talking about golf in nineteen sixty

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nine. The book is about the
nineteen sixty nine Ryder Cup and the concession,

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and he talks about the money to
be earned even in the late sixties,

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how little it was, and how
difficult it was for American players to

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go and play in overseas because it
just didn't pay. I mean, it

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cost you money to do it.
Even if you won, you probably didn't

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make very much money because of the
expenses. So, you know, the

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money is dramatically changed, and that's
that's got to be thanks to television.

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Oh, you know, people like
Arnold Palmer kind of created the interest for

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television to want to put golf on
TV. I mean, you know,

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he was really kind of the driving
force, as did in modern day Tiger

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Woods. Uh. And but I
can remember we hosted two PGA events at

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the club. I was at the
Almaden Open and we had everybody there and

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I mean, I'm I'm talking about
venture Tony Lima, I mean the best

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names in golf and first prizes it
was five thousand dollars. So things have

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changed dramatically, and and what they
make and residuals nowadays from sponsors and so

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forth. It's just staggering and become
if you can make it to the tour

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in last even a couple of years, you're you're a multi millionaire. And

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that's crazy, right, right,
Yeah, And the expenses went up to

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Yeah. I'm fascinated about the team
concept. When you're doing a college team

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like this, how similar is it
to team competition like we're experiencing the Ryder

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Cup. Well, you know,
the chemistry and camaradity is a big portion

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of playing golf team wise. When
we're out there playing, our egos get

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involved sometimes and sometimes when we're having
a bad day, we just let strokes

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get away from us. We just
cavalier with that. And as I have

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to really really impress my students is
that sometimes we're going to be forced to

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keep their score and sometimes they could
take an eighty and maybe keep it at

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seventy six or seven, or they
can let it go to eighty five.

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You just can't. You can't waste
strokes. You have to always believe that

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your score is going to count.
You can never say, well, somebody

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else pick up slack because when we
play in community college golf, we played

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six player. Yeah, you know, six players, and we keep five

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scores, so we can drop one. But you never know who's going to

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get dropped when you're out there beating
balls, and you can't assume that,

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God, I'm having a bad day, somebody else had picked up the slack

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for me, because lots of times
you're incorrect. So the scoring is a

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conglomerate of all the scores. It
is a team sport in that way.

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Yes, yes, how's the scoring
done? Well, it's the total of

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five scores, and you know that
number, whatever that number may be,

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is goes against the other teams.
We're always trying to get for five players,

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we're always trying to get somewhere near
par, which is very difficult.

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You know, usually the number one, two and three man will shoot near

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power, sometimes even under. But
it's the four and four or five and

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six players that make or break you, because somebody could shoot sixty six or

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sixty eight, but if you have
to keep an eighty, that takes care

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of that sixty eight. So we're
we have to as a coach, I

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know that when all the conference championships
we won and all the state championships we

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won, our bottom three were the
driving force, not the top three.

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Kind of like the starting rotation of
a baseball team. It's your one,

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two, and three guys that are
going to carry the team, and you

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hope for the best for number four
and five, or even your batting lineup

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for that matter. Right, So, do you only play one round of

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golf? Well, in some cases, in some cases, we play two

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rounds of golf when we play.
When we play conference championship or regionals or

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state championship, you play thirty six
holes that day, and they're carrying their

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backs and the weather gets pretty warm
at that period of time. So you

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know, it's a physical challenge on
top of a mental challenge, which golf

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is consistently right, Right, So
when you're playing two rounds, is it

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a conglomeration of all ten scores or
is it two separate rounds In the conference

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Championship, it's two different contest.
In the regionals, it's thirty six holes,

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so it's a total of all your
scores for thirty six holes, and

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it's best ball. It's best scoring. It's not match play or anything,

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or four ball any of the other
other games. It's metal play, right

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right. Have you ever been involved
in any type of competition that's similar to

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the Ryder Cup. No, I
have not. I have not. I

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think probably everyone that's ever played golf
professionally probably dreams of that. Now.

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I've played some match play competition,
but nothing like that, nothing that lasted

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three days and a bunch of different
kinds of game, from match play to

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stroke play to partners. I've never
been involved with that, but but it

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sure would be nice. It would
be a lot of fun. Oh yeah,

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yeah. But I'm just fascinated about
the team concept on playing and the

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mental part of the team concept and
how somebody can coach that. Well,

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that's really the challenge, you know, when we play regular tournaments, whether

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they're PGA Tour or sectional tournaments,
professional, when you're playing, if you

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miss a putt, no one's going
to clap. In the Ryder Cup,

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you've got two groups of people out
there, those that are with you and

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those that are against you, So
that's an additional, additional challenge. And

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then on top of it, you're
playing for your country and some of those

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rounds where you know, you hit
the T shot and then the other fellow

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plays or you hit that T shirt
from now you have that pressure. Also,

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I got to put it on the
fairly. I don't want to put

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my friend Bob in the weeds.
So it's so different than typical competition,

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and especially with the pride of being
an American and winning, and you know,

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we're big underdogs right now, but
we're holding our own I'm very proud

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of the guys. Well. By
the time that people get a chance to

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hear this, the whole thing will
be over. So we really have no

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idea what's going on. We're recording
this on the Friday of the Ryder Cup

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twenty fourteen Ryder Cup. If someone's
listening later, Hi, welcome. Let's

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change channels here a little bit and
let's get into your wheelhouse, which is

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swing mechanics, ball striking, the
loss fundamental. You know, there's so

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many different things and it made to
you just come back to the same thing

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over and over. But there's things
that I see that go wrong or I

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suffer from or see my playing partner
suffer from that. I want to pick

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your brain about and I want to
start that with people who are continually hitting

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behind the ball. I mean,
you'll see a divot that is three to

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four maybe five inches behind the ball, even with their especially with their driver.

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What do you have to help us
out with that? It's a really

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easy answer, believe it or not. I'm glad you think so it is.

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What's happening is that they're not transferring
their weight as the first move of

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the downswing. What they're doing is
they're dropping the club down to the ball.

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The old adage about staying behind the
ball, that's true. In its

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falls. You have to drive through
the ball, and if you're a right

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handed golfer, your right shoulder at
your right hip have to go past that

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ball. So imagine the ball was
a line, and when you set up

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to the golf ball, half of
your bodies behind the line and half of

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your body's forward of the line,
with your head being in the center on

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the dolls wing, You've got to
get that part that's behind the ball forward

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of the ball. In a rotational
move. And when you hit behind the

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ball, it's because you are behind
the ball at impact and you can't be

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You've got to be moving through it. When they say stay behind it when

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you hit it. That's a millisecond, but you have to be moving through

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it now. In the past,
years gone by, or your head went

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backwards because we swung and we finished
in what we call a C position,

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and everybody got a bad back from
that. Yes, your head stayed back.

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But you watch today's players. First
of all, they don't finish with

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their hands high. They finish with
their hands low, and that's because they're

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turning their body and rotating their core
to the left of the target. So

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the width of the swing is increased
from impact to finish. That's the big

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change. And you can see that
this has happened on the tour. Everyone

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is talking about it. And I
knowed it because like my new boys that

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came in and I said, and
I talked to them about the golf swing,

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and there's two ways to do this. You can be an arm player.

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You can be a body player.
They all say, oh, no,

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coach, we're body players. So
I'm finding that I don't have to

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I don't have to prove my point
anymore. They already know that because they

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watch the Mceilroys and the Coochers and
all these players that in some fashion are

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more rotary than sliding through the ball. So on setup your head. Should

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your body be a little angled behind
the ball or should you be completely upright?

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I believe you should be centered to
the golf ball. I don't want

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my head behind the ball. There's
an old same you want to stand above

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the ball, but not behind it. Your head's like a bowling ball and

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weight, and you know you've got
to get to the left side, So

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why put more weight on the right
side to start it? Just you know,

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it's unless you're a neuia of or
somebody like that that can move quickly

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to the left, you're gonna either
have to slide or something to get over

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there. And then that opens up
another Pandora's box of bad shots. By

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staying centered to the ball and not
being so tilty with the shoulders. Although

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some people teach that, and I'm
not saying it's wrong me, I want

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to be clear on that. It's
just harder to do. You know,

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you can shift your weight to the
right and then shift it back to the

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left, and if you can time
that move prior to impact, you're going

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to be just fine. But I
don't think very many people can do that,

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nor have the time to do that
in a sense of practice. So

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what I feel is what I think
I saw with Ben Hogan, the changes

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he made. He centered himself more
to the ball at address, and then

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his left side he turned level left. His left shoulder didn't go up,

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it went around. And if you
keep the left arm connected to the body,

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you block the rotation of the arms
so that you square the club by

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the turn of the body instead of
the rotation of the arms, and you're

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playoff of really one axis. Getting
back to hitting behind the ball, what

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happens is that we fixate on the
ball so much and instead of thinking about

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where we're going with the golf club, and our body has to go because

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it is going to go more forward
than it was at address and it's turning.

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So most people when they top the
ball or hit behind the ball,

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that's because their focus is too much
on impact. Impact is happening, and

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it's not something that you can just
stand there and wait for. You've got

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to be moving athletically, just like
everything, when you throw a ball,

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when you hit a tennis ball,
when you throw a punch, everything is

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moving forward in some form. In
golf, that forwardness can't be on a

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line. It has to be a
rotational move. So when I tell my

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people, you've got to get to
the left side, and your way should

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be at least at impact eighty percent
on that left foot. The right foot

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should just be driving forward. But
most people, when they hit behind the

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ball, it's just that they get
anxious from the top and they hit down

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on it too much and they don't
transfer their weight. That's it. And

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that's the same thing with a thin
shot. It's the same exact thing.

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Too focused on impact. You just
said, well, I find that I'll

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play better when I'm focused more on
playing the course than playing the ball.

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Does that make any sense? Sure? Again, in my teaching, especially

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with my boys that are going to
be in competition, I tell them when

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we practice, you have to pick
out a you have to go through a

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pre shot routine. When you're practicing, you have to pick out a really

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tight target so that you get yourself
used to visually your target being very small.

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Those things are very important in practicing. And then you have to you

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have to use the ball as a
point of reference to move through, but

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not as something to hint, because
if you're thinking hitting, you're going to

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anticipate impact. And if you anticipate
impact, your hands are going to tighten

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it impact, your arms are going
to pull back a little bit, and

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you're either going to thin it or
you're going to top it. But more

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importantly, you're going to stay behind
it. And that's not good. And

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that was actually I was going to
get to the concept of topping the ball,

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of hitting where it's just going to
roll because you've just I guess you

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you're glancing the club over the top
part of the ball. You're not making

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solid contact, and it's just going
to be a worm burner is just going

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to be rolling on the ground.
Yeah, and incorrectly it's diagnosed you looked

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up, and I don't believe anybody
looks up. I think that when they

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tighten up their body, their shoulders
hunch up a little bit, their arms

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pull back towards them. But what
is the core reason for that. The

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core reason is that they're trying to
hit the ball and the club head is

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moving too fast. You know,
there was an old saying, good players

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sense where the ball is bad players
stare at it. And I think that's

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really a true statement. I like
that good players sense where the ball is

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right and bad players stare at the
ball stare Oh man, great, I'm

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writing this one down. Sense Okay, what about you know your rotation,

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your movement. How important is it
to keep your lower body still? Try

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to keep that from swaying back and
forth. Where does that fall in?

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Well, when you set to the
ball, I believe, and everyone has

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their own opinion on it, this
is mine. I believe that you set

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up with the ball so that your
right hip is aligned on the inside of

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your right foot, on the end
step of the foot. That creates a

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kind of a brace. The first
move of the swing is it's a combination

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of your arms and shoulders working somewhat
together. I like to take the club

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back because I'm right handed. I
like to take it back with my right

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side. Don't buy into turn your
left shoulder to your chin. I've never

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bought that because it makes you move
to the right a little bit. When

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you pull your right shoulder back,
your right shoulder is really going behind your

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neck kind of towards the target and
for those of you that have a limited

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turn, if you work on turning
your right shoulder behind your neck, you're

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going to find that you're going to
increase your shoulder turn twenty percent. When

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I try. You know, when
I try to illustrate turning from my left

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side, I can't make as much
turn as when I pull my right shoulder

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back. By pulling my right shoulder
back, and also it also stops the

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feeling of moving back to the right
foot, so I can stay inside that

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brace. And in fact, as
I turn the right shoulder back, my

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hip is going to respond back also, and the inclination of my right foot,

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because my hip is on the inside
of the instep of my right shoe,

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the inclination is going to steep in
a bit. And if you look

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at all the great players that lasted
a long time, you'll look at the

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right The right leg is not perpendicular. The right leg is steep. What

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do you find to be the most
common flaw that you have to help correct

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moving back from the ball head,
moving with the shoulder turn. I have

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a PE class, and I did
the College of Favor this year. They

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didn't have an instructor, so there's
about thirty five people in the class,

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and most of them never hit a
golf ball. So but a lot of

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young boys that are, you know, they've played baseball and so forth.

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So I teach them to grip in
a group, you know, a group

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setting. Obviously it's not going to
be perfect, but we get close.

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And then I watched them hit the
balls individually, and the first thing initially

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is that they're they're reaching back for
power, they're swaying off that right side,

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and when they hit the ball,
the majority of their wits on the

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right foot, and the ball slices
or they top it, and I have

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to get up, and I say, look, I'm an old guy.

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Look at a little effort I make, and I can hit the seven one

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hundred and sixty yards, and I
go ahead and bang the ball out there,

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and they look at me like,
how do you do that? But

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once they understand that they have to
be centered to the ball and then through

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the ball, then all of a
sudden, you watch these kids whack a

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ball out there. It's crazy how
far they can hit it. So I

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know one thing I've heard more and
more Turing Pross saying, I want to

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take the timing out of my game, and I want to take the compensations

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out of my game. I want
to be able to even when my feet

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are in the fire, because I'm
playing for something I dearly want. I

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want to still be able to play
well when you're timing the rotation of the

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golf club with your hands and forearms. That's a heck of a lot harder

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under pressure than rotating your body and
keeping your arm connected to the body.

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Is it easy to do. No, it's hard because it goes against your

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natural instincts. But once you get
it, I promise you that you'll not

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only hit the ball farther because you'll
hit a square them more often, but

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your shot dispersion is going to be
much narrower. You're gonna have a lot

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less side spin on the ball,
so when you push it, you won't

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push it with a cut or pull
it with a draw. And that's you

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know, that's what happens to everybody. And the better you are as a

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player, the more you fight the
draw or the hook. When you first

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start out, it's a slice for
everybody for a while, but if you're

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focusing on playing the game under pressure, you need something to block that hook

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without making a block move in a
sense, So you need something that traps

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that club square. And this is
the only way that I know how.

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And I know that there's a couple
of players out on tour that maybe are

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reluctant to do this, but if
they did it, they would hit some

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fairways every now and then. Come
on, name names. No, I'm

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not going to name any name.
They're not listening. I promise. Who

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would you think does that? Well? I think I think anybody that's an

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armed player. I think Phil who
is probably one of the most talented players,

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has said the game when it comes
to all the kinds of shots,

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he hiss. But he's got a
terrible record of driving the ball in play.

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And so does Tiger. I mean, and it blows my mind that

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Tiger doesn't because the guys are golfing
genius. Also, he knows he doesn't

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need anybody to teach him to play
golf. That's I think that's probably the

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biggest problem is he's ever had,
you know, I think Butch did him

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a favor by shortening his swing a
little bit. But Tiger knows how to

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play. And when you get too
conscious of how to do something, when

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you're purposely trying to do something,
you get awkward. Everybody does. I

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think if Tiger would go woodshed,
and I think he's kind of inclined.

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He's been saying things like, I
may not hire somebody, I may go

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out there and figure it out myself. If he would do that like Hogan

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did and all the great players,
where you own your own swing, because

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how they can instruct or feel what
you're feeling, I mean, it's not

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possible. So you can lead them
to you can lead them to some dynamic

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moves, or you can say,
hey, you're swaying, you're doing this,

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but there when you get to be
tired of woods, come on,

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this guy is one of the greatest
players of all time. But once you

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get doubt, you lose that mojo, you lose that feeling that you're going

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to win, and then you start
questioning everything, every move you're making.

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You've got somebody barking on instructions.
That's a road to nowhere, as far

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as I'm concerned,