WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.080 Proof that the Bible is woke. Some eighty two, three and four. 2 00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:09.039 Defend the week and the fatherless. Uphold the cause of the poor and the 3 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:13.400 oppressed. Rescue the week and the needy, Deliver them from the hand of 4 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:17.000 the wicked. Proverbs thirty one, eight and nine. Speak up for those 5 00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:20.839 who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. 6 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:24.640 Speak up and judge Fairley, defend the rights of the poor and the needy. 7 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:27.879 I gotta say, I kind of like where the Bible is coming from 8 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:31.359 here. This book is used all the time, time and time again to 9 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:35.920 oppressed, marginalized people. Maybe it's time for Bible believers to get a little 10 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:39.880 more woke. Well whatever that means. If you disagree, then give us 11 00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:49.840 a call because the show is coming right now. Okay, Well, welcome 12 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:54.079 to Talk Heathen. Today is Sunday, September seventeenth, twenty twenty three. 13 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:58.759 I am your host, Christy Powell, and joining me today is anti theist 14 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:03.920 Derek Matthias. Thanks for being here, Thank you. I'm overjoyed to be 15 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:07.319 here. Thanks. Yeah, Well, this is our first time actually doing 16 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:10.920 a show together. Tell us a little bit about who you are, what 17 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:15.280 you do and I guess what kind of questions we're looking to get into today. 18 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:19.840 Okay, sounds good. My name is Derek Matthias. I have a 19 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:26.799 channel on YouTube called Underlings and it's basically an anti theism channel. I cover 20 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:34.799 both atheism issues and topics and evolution and anything related. My background is as 21 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:42.079 a naturalist. I have a degree in evolution. Basically that my bachelorist in 22 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:47.280 evolution and I studied in the Charles Darwin Institute in the Glaucos Islands and I 23 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:51.519 was a naturalist, worked as a naturalist teaching evolution on a cruise ship in 24 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:56.640 the Gloucos for a year. And yeah, that's my background on this topic. 25 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:59.920 Man, there are so many things I know I would love to ask 26 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:04.560 about. I've been reading Friends to All all summer and getting very excited about 27 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:08.560 evolutionary psychology, comparative psychology, what we can and can't learn from the animal 28 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:13.120 kingdom. But I'm interested to hear what our callers are interested in, Like, 29 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:15.400 what do you guys want to talk about? We are here to take 30 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:20.039 those calls. This is Talk Heathen. We are a product of the Atheist 31 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:24.199 Community of ASTA five oh one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of 32 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:30.000 atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the separation of religion and government. 33 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:34.120 Give us a call with those calls, because we are a live call 34 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:37.319 in show with open lines, So get your calls in now while you still 35 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:42.120 can at five one two nine nine two four two, or from your computer, 36 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:46.439 you can give us a try at tiny dot cc slash call th And 37 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:51.479 before we get started, let's look at the answers to last week's talk Heathen 38 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:55.080 to Me, our weekly segment where we ask for viewers to chime in with 39 00:02:55.159 --> 00:03:00.000 their answers to questions. Last week we asked you what is a sin Jesus 40 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:05.240 didn't intend to die for. Our number three answer this week came from j 41 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:09.639 D Martin. JD says Jesus didn't die to forgive call center scams, but 42 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:14.400 when he returns, he will need to break in that new sword on something. 43 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:17.400 I'm with you. I think that's a fair plan. Number two came 44 00:03:17.479 --> 00:03:22.360 from Chuck Guidos, who says Jesus was willing to die for someone's sin of 45 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.520 picking up sticks on a Saturday, but surely he didn't mean to include picking 46 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:29.879 up a fumbled football with the end zone insight. So that time of year. 47 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:35.280 My team is getting destroyed already in college football. You know what, 48 00:03:35.319 --> 00:03:37.319 I think. I'm just ready to move on. I'm a little bit too 49 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:42.039 worked up about it. Our number one answer from last week came from senlt 50 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:46.080 says, Jesus didn't intend to die for killing someone's fig tree because he was 51 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:50.840 hungry and it wasn't bearing fruit out of season. It's cold, it's cold. 52 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:53.159 That actually is a pretty good call out. Well, this week, 53 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:57.719 Derek, We're interested to hear from all of our viewers, but I'm gonna 54 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:01.199 start with you. What is a lesser known fruit of the spirit of the 55 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:06.919 spirit? Well, the only spirits I know are alcohol related, so I 56 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:13.479 would say durian, chetty, moya, and dragon fruit. How are those 57 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.680 were lesser known fruits? I think that those are a number of things that 58 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:21.000 could probably still be distilled, and I'd be interested to find out and see 59 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:24.680 what we can find from that, what kind of spirits can we get. 60 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.439 If you are listening to the sound of my voice, chime in in the 61 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:32.000 comments section of this video let us know what your answers are. Possibly be 62 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:35.959 featured in next week's episode, and without a whole lot of to do, 63 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:39.879 Derek, if you're good for it. We've got calls on the line. 64 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.319 We've got so many interested people I think, ready to call in, and 65 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.759 so many questions that all ask you if we don't hear from our viewers, 66 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.319 So let's just start off with the folks we have on the line. Agreed. 67 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:56.519 Yeah, I'd like to start by checking in with Drey from Texas. 68 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:00.279 We spoke a couple of weeks ago about the ethics of porn bography. Andre, 69 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:03.480 I'm curious what your thoughts are where you'd like to go with this today. 70 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:08.639 Well, how you doing. I want to start this solve by saying 71 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.759 I did not know that you were going to be on a show today, 72 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:15.879 so it's purposed like a crazy coincidence that I have. I have the information 73 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:19.759 that you're asking for on the prior show. I'm glad to hear it. 74 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:24.279 I'll just catch up some I don't mean to interrupt you. I definitely want 75 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:27.360 to hear your take on things, but I'll catch people up a little bit 76 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:30.560 after our conversation a couple of weeks ago, after a couple of the calls 77 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:35.680 from that show about pornography, I ended up writing an open letter on my 78 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:42.839 website about this topic because I am somebody who is for better or for worse, 79 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:46.079 have found myself in this spot of like wanting to advocate for people's sexual 80 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:49.680 expression, I'm wanting to advocate for sex workers and these different things. And 81 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:55.240 that may mean talking about pornography to the internet, but it feels like every 82 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:59.319 time we do, the conversation really turns into, well, porn is bad. 83 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:01.439 Well, why is porn bad because God says it's bad? Okay, 84 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:05.079 why should I care about that? Well, it's bad because it's bad for 85 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:08.560 you? Okay, Well, how is porn bad for you? Because it's 86 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:13.959 bad? And that type of circular answer and reasoning is such a part of 87 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:17.040 this discussion that Drey, I'm really hoping we can push past that part today. 88 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:21.920 So am I fair in kind of framing it as porn is bad? 89 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:26.639 And here's why? Is that the conversation you're looking at half today? Yeah? 90 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:30.000 But I have scholarly studies to support my position. Cool. Yeah, 91 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.879 I don't have time to read those on air while we have this discussion, 92 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:38.360 but I'm curious of what you're looking at, and I'd be excited to see 93 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:41.680 what we can share. I will give you the study. So I got 94 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:47.040 Internet Pornography and Pedophilia by doctor Hilder Wood. And the other study I have 95 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:53.920 is Pornography as a Public Health Issue Promoting violence Expectation of Children using adults by 96 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.800 Elizabeth Taylor. Okay, yeah, so Dad, I'm not going to have 97 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:01.560 the opportunity to like really get into the veracity of these studies. Who were 98 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:06.199 they by, how were they conducted, were they properly pure reviewed? Those 99 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:11.000 are all questions I'm not equipped to really answer while you and I are having 100 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:15.519 a live conversation. But tell me what you've seen in these studies that makes 101 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:18.839 you feel as if as if corners quote unquote bad. And I'll read an 102 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:23.240 excerpt for one of the studies. Yeah, let me give you, like 103 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:26.480 maybe a sentence or two. This is a live talk show, so I 104 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:29.720 want to keep things humming. But I am really excited that you've brought some 105 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:34.000 meaningful evidence with you. Okay, So this is an excerpt from what is 106 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:36.959 I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I got This is a very long study. 107 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:43.160 This is an expert from Elizabeth Taylor's study, so from her conclusion. So 108 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:47.439 in her conclusion, one of the one of the main concerns was that it 109 00:07:47.560 --> 00:07:54.000 sets perhaps the most concerning evidence that pornography is starving to expand, managrom sexually 110 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:57.480 takes it to the few it every is still considered table, such as sex 111 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:01.040 with children. The role of PCP presenting two as legitimate sexual partners for men 112 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:07.680 has encouraged the proliferation of extensive international network sharing massive quantities of cuntent, driving 113 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:13.040 demand or the creation of press content. The children abused in the process are 114 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.920 film to grow on others. That's just excerpt from one of the studies, 115 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:20.920 but our will send both of the studies to the email that you would give 116 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:22.560 me. Okay, yeah, and I'm happy to look at that in a 117 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:26.399 little bit more detail. I do want to I don't want to play silly 118 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:31.000 word games today, but I do want to start off by really meaningfully dividing 119 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:37.879 up the idea of pornography a form of entertainment, a form of sexual expression 120 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:43.279 that is made in responsible and appropriate ways, from child abuse. Child abuse 121 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:46.480 is wrong. That's clearly the point here when we talk about porn is good 122 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:50.080 or porn is bad. I don't ever want to leave any lingering doubt about 123 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:54.919 whether or not abusing a child on film is quote good in any form or 124 00:08:54.919 --> 00:09:00.960 fashion. But what I seem to be getting from you is that because pornography 125 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:05.840 exists, that it leads to the creation of more of this childhood sexual assault 126 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.639 material. Is that sort of the crux of what you're positing here. That's 127 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.960 one of the conclusions from the study and IM and the other study. I 128 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:18.240 just have excerpts from it because that study, I don't have access to it 129 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:20.600 because I don't I'm not currently in rolled, so I don't have access to 130 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:26.200 the study by Heather Woods at the moment, but I have read experts from 131 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:31.440 her being cited in public articles. Sure well, I definitely find value in 132 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:33.879 that. If we were playing this game a little bit differently, I feel 133 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.399 like I could call into your talk show and also cherry pick a bunch of 134 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.480 research that says there's no connection, that none of this is happening. But 135 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:46.080 let's try and play with the tools that you have brought to us, the 136 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:50.000 toys that you're bringing along today, and see if we can't wrestle some of 137 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:54.799 this out. What is the method of action that's being presented in this study? 138 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:58.200 What is it that demonstrates that there is a connection between an increase and 139 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:05.679 the availability of say Internet pornography and the eventual creation of more childhood sexual assault 140 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:09.799 material. I can't say, I can't say fully what was the methods of 141 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.639 study, So I'm just gonna go on a limit just because I know that 142 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:22.960 the Jennifer study cited Heather study, so Heather is a clinical psychologist. I 143 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:30.000 don't remember what necessarily Jennifer's credentials were, but I know that her study was 144 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:35.639 heavily cited from scholarly resources. So that's why I'm saying it would be better. 145 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:37.200 I just wanted to I just wanted to come on here. If I 146 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:41.440 can present the information, and then what's I guess. I guess once you 147 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:45.919 get a chance to review the information, maybe you get to email me back. 148 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.639 I really don't want to have like a moralistic standpoint on this. I 149 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:54.519 didn't wanted to present you some research that backed up my position. Sure well, 150 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:58.279 I suppose I will keep an eye out for that email from you. 151 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:01.799 You can certainly hit us at t at Atheist hyphen Community dot org. I 152 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.840 will be more than happy to look over what you send over. Perhaps you 153 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.080 and I can have a little bit of an email discussion if there is anything 154 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:13.200 there of value, I'm more than happy to publish that to the Talk Heathen 155 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:18.240 fan group on Facebook so that we can bring other people into that discussion. 156 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:20.840 If there's, you know, something that kind of surprises me, or something 157 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:26.879 that maybe challenges some of the things that I've spent years advocating for here on 158 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:31.080 the ACA's channels, that's something I'm more than happy to read on air after 159 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.759 I've taken a look at it and gotten and understand of what it is. 160 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.919 But softly, now, just for the for the purposes of this conversation, 161 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:39.720 which we can, you know, maybe wrap up. If that was most 162 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.519 of what you wanted to present, I guess I just sort of want to 163 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.159 check in on what you think is at work here, you know, having 164 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.960 done a little bit of research. I'm not going to hold you to any 165 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.000 specific numbers or whatever else, but what is sort of your understanding of the 166 00:11:54.039 --> 00:12:01.320 way that children are being harmed by the I guess wide spread availability of pornography 167 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:05.039 in our world, because I do think that there's harm there that needs to 168 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:07.639 be discussed. But I'm interested in your position on all of that. I 169 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:13.639 don't I don't like to add if I may please, just a brief question, 170 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:20.399 are you advocating for the removal of or the non dissemination of pornographic material 171 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:26.039 of any sort. I won't. I don't have a concrete position on what 172 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:30.159 I would do. I just have a moralistic position on how I feel about 173 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:33.480 it. I have studies to back up my moralistic position, but I do 174 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:39.440 not have a concrete what do you call legal? Legal? Not legal? 175 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:43.559 I'm just talking moral. Yeah, I mean, do we sort of into 176 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:50.240 it on a certain level that having widespread access to R rated action films? 177 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:56.600 Uh, you know, watching Neo or John Wick mowed down hundreds of bad 178 00:12:56.639 --> 00:13:00.799 guys over the course of an episode, does that lead to increase gang violence 179 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:03.240 for instance? Kind of? Maybe, you know, there is some interesting 180 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:09.759 data presenting. Possibly possibly, but kind of also maybe not? Really is 181 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:13.759 that the nature if you're concerned here? Not the different things comparison, because 182 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:18.759 not just the act of fictionalized violence. Pornography is an act of actual sex 183 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:24.279 action most of the times hardcore six That's what I'm doing. Okay, So 184 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.679 it is hardcore sex if if we take the camera out of it, if 185 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:30.759 we take the Internet out of it, if two people, three people, 186 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:35.440 fifty people go into a room and have quote unquote hardcore sex. However, 187 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:39.279 we're choosing to define that notion. Does that make the world a worst place? 188 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:43.879 Let's see, we're not talking about sex in private, We're talking about 189 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:50.799 the public displays that's easily accessible by children. So the hardcore sex being on 190 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:54.240 film is what makes it important? What about writing? What does that also 191 00:13:54.480 --> 00:14:00.399 count? Written porny? What written porn as well? Are you including that 192 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:03.759 not just the visual I don't have a I don't have a position on writtenforn 193 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:09.720 Well. The reason I'm asking that is that if you are advocating against pornography 194 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:16.360 being displayed disseminated worldwide, then you'd have to be against the Song of Solomon 195 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:22.279 in the Bible, which is all about some serious hardcore porn. So I 196 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:26.519 think I think would be removing all the Bibles from all the hotel drawers. 197 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:31.000 And yeah, I mean that Bible has incest in It's got a ton of 198 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.879 rape, there's lots of torture. I mean, some of it gets pretty 199 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:39.960 hardcore. We're not listen, listen, we're not talking about we're not talking 200 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:45.120 about erotica. We're talking about actual porn videos, internet porn. We're not 201 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:48.519 talking about written form. Yeah, I'm pushing back against your definitions but I'm 202 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:52.600 okay with, say, limiting this to something very specific. Yeah, I'm 203 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:56.480 not trying to move the goal post. I'm trying to get maybe a very 204 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:58.960 clear statement. I hear you. I would like for this to be your 205 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:03.799 a moment, to give me a very clear statement, like what is your 206 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.480 what is your eventual premise? Like what is the thing that you want the 207 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:11.519 world to believe because you believe it, whether you can support it or not 208 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.480 or anything else. Let's just start with I believe that, and maybe we 209 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:22.080 can go from there. I believe that porn is harmful to the vast majority 210 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:26.639 of the population of the world. And it's okay, yeah, how like 211 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:31.200 I don't disagree at this stage. But why is it harmful? How is 212 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.000 it harmful? In what ways? Is it hurting people? I've name won 213 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:37.240 because it also but for some reason, well I'm not going to say, 214 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:41.639 for some reason, the fact that it's yet hard to what do you call 215 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:45.759 it? I can't think of a word. I'm sorry, but you can't 216 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:50.039 regulate it. It's not regulated. And since it's not regulated, how pornography 217 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:52.799 gets put in the mix, rate gets put in the mix. Actually, 218 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.639 porn hub is going through an issue, right now because a lot of their 219 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:00.919 videos happen to have actual rate and they didn't have I hear you. I'm 220 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:04.399 going to push back on that a little bit. It's much more nuanced what 221 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:10.440 you're actually discussing here, if we're being sincere about it, Facebook has a 222 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:15.039 much bigger issue in terms of sheer numbers of spreading any any of the types 223 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.960 of materials that we're talking about, the childhood sexual assault and other forms of 224 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:25.279 rape and abuse. There are very meaningful issues with the way that the Internet 225 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:30.000 has created possibilities for data to be shared very freely, and it is true 226 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:37.320 that there are meaningful conversations about free speech and about moderation and about how we 227 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:41.360 actually manage and stem the flow of some of these things. To say that 228 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:45.399 it's not regulated is a little bit ridiculous. It's more an issue that the 229 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.960 regulation is really awkward, and that we've done a very poor job of managing 230 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:53.879 what we do and do not allow to be widely distributed in the end on 231 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:59.600 the Internet. But again I'm still a little bit challenged with how we're getting 232 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:06.519 from pornography exists, or very specifically, videos of people having sex are on 233 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:11.119 the Internet, and therefore childhood sexual assault, Well, just make the case 234 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:17.119 for f to legislation around it. I mean more regulations. I would say 235 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:21.839 different regulation for sure, but no question, there's nuance here. There's meaningful 236 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:26.359 laws that ought to be written. We've advocated for that on well, on 237 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.640 this show, but in particular when I was working with secular sexuality. You 238 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:33.119 can check out the back catalog for a lot of the things there. We 239 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:38.640 do need some better strategy for how to keep childhood sexual assault from happening. 240 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:44.200 It's happening, there are people filming it, that those films are making their 241 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:48.359 way around the world, and this is a meaningful issue, And I don't 242 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:52.880 know why we can talk about that issue in the same conversation where we're talking 243 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:57.000 about erotica, where we're talking about forms of expression, where we're talking about 244 00:17:57.079 --> 00:18:03.480 sex being filmed. That's not the same thing. People shooting each other in 245 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.519 a video game is not the same thing as like actual street violence. We 246 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.640 can't compare those two directly, and until we establish some sort of causal links, 247 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:17.400 this conversation is not really helping inform me about it. I remember talking 248 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:23.880 about video games anything fictional. I'm talking about total nonfictional, nonfiction visual sexual 249 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.279 X because I'm expressing to you that they're the same things, right, The 250 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.400 two performers the same thing. When two performers are on stage acting, they 251 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:41.160 are acting. And if an actual penis actually penetrates an actual vagina, is 252 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.720 that still acting? I mean, you know, it's sure there's maybe nuance 253 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.079 in all of this. And again, art is a very tricky subject, 254 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:52.880 but ultimately that's what porn is. It's art the same way a TV show 255 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:56.559 is art, the same way a movie is art, the same way a 256 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.960 video game is art. Pornography is art. Art is not the same thing 257 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:04.519 as violence. I can, I can, I can make you can make 258 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:07.400 the case for that. I can, I can. I can rock with 259 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.279 that. But my whole thing, I'm not talking about the the the quote 260 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:15.880 unquote artful types of nudity. I'm talking about the hardcore porn is really the 261 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:21.640 issue. I mean, hardcore porn is still actors acting. You know, 262 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:25.759 That's That's one of the reasons I like to jump towards John Wick. I 263 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:30.359 don't mean to let my crush on Keanu Reeves like overtake my professional objectivism. 264 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:36.880 But the reality is there are people who are in those films who are doing 265 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:42.240 these incredibly athletic things. They're jumping over live explosions, they're holding real guns, 266 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:48.039 like there's incredible work happening. People are getting punched, and sometimes those 267 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:52.440 punches land, and sometimes people get hurt. It's the same thing when you're 268 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.559 on the set of a porno shoot and two actual people are having actual sex. 269 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:00.920 We did an episode of secular sexuality at one It was awesome and it 270 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:07.240 was thanks performance that we're not accounting for. Ye done wick suit somebody in 271 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:11.240 the movie. Nobody's getting shot. However, at a point actress of a 272 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:17.440 point actress or actor actually has an STD and they have and they participate in 273 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:22.319 the act of set, and somebody accounts that's not that's not fictional. We 274 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:27.000 account for that. But to follow that logic, if two people kiss in 275 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:33.279 a PG family film and one of them have has a herpes outbreak or the 276 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.599 common cold or the coronavirus, we're also transmitting that. So to just leap 277 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:44.440 towards the scary monster of sexually transmitted infections really feels like a cop out. 278 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.000 Friend. Yeah, anything even not even kissing, if they've got if they've 279 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:49.920 got COVID, or if they even have a cold, they can spread it 280 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:56.319 around through the entire shooting arena. So yeah, I wasn't using I wasn't 281 00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.200 using STDs to make my case. I was just using STDs to sold the 282 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:04.039 actual sex acts happening. And it is not a fictional sex act. This 283 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:10.480 is an actual, real sex act that happens in porn. Are wrestlers actually 284 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:14.880 wrestling? I mean, I get it, I kind of do. But 285 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.400 I don't have a problem with sex, and so I don't really have a 286 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:22.920 problem with people having sex on or off camera. And none of this gets 287 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:26.400 me too, right, none of this gets me to assault. None of 288 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:32.039 this gets me to assault of children, which seems to be the problem that 289 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:36.920 we're looking to solve. So how is the solution of removing all internet porn 290 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:41.480 from the Internet solving the problem of childhood sexual assault. Let's keep in mind 291 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:51.240 a lot of clergy are guilty of abusing children sexually, and there's in theory 292 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:55.839 they're not looking at pornography when they do that, or it may not be 293 00:21:55.880 --> 00:22:00.599 the motivating factor for that. It exists regardless of pornography. All right, 294 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.799 Well, Dre, I'm gonna maybe give you the last word here. If 295 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:07.079 you're still on the line. I will keep an eye out for your email 296 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:11.119 and anybody who is interested in this conversation the way that I know, I 297 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:15.240 am keep an eye on the talk Heathen Facebook group and we will kind of 298 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.799 keep that live if we can. Okay, well, I believe that maybe 299 00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:23.519 all from Dre for today. Sorry, guys, I don't mean to always 300 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:27.359 be that guy talking about porn, but like, if you want to give 301 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:33.200 us a call, We've still got more lines open. There's plenty of fascinating 302 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:38.200 conversation to be had around evolution, around moral philosophy. There is so much 303 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.839 for us to discuss, and we hope that you will join us in that 304 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:45.200 discussion. But for now, let's maybe touch in with Felix and Florida. 305 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:49.119 Yeah, all right, Felix, you have some concerns about the destruction of 306 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:53.759 the nuclear family. Yeah, yeah, tell me about it. What are 307 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:57.880 your concerns, What do you see and what's happening. I see that secular 308 00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:02.880 is a normalize divorce, and they're saying, oh, okay, if people 309 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:07.039 get a divorce and children living two separate households, it's fine, it's just 310 00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:10.319 didn't work out with the parents, But that's not something that should be normalized. 311 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:15.039 We can't glorify single motherhoods. Okay, let's start there. Okay, 312 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.079 I heard we shouldn't normalize it. It's not a good thing. Why children. 313 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:22.920 I also would like to jump in on this at some point, but 314 00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:25.559 yeah, go ahead and answer this question first, if you would please. 315 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:29.079 Yeah, children going through a divorce, I've been having to live in two 316 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:33.680 separate households. They spend less time with both of their biological parents. Or 317 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.240 if a child is just with their mom and not with their father, they're 318 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.759 spending less time with their father. And divorce does this to children. So 319 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:44.519 it's not good for their development to spend less time with the parents, and 320 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:48.039 the split itself is traumatic. Yeah. Sure, I mean, I think 321 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.759 what you're getting at is that children are experiencing distress because of a lack of 322 00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:59.039 connection to their parents. By that same token, jobs that make you work 323 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:03.880 more than forty hours a week are bad. Hobbies like golf are bad. 324 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.440 I mean, I don't really think that you can say that divorce leads to 325 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:11.920 bad outcomes for children, because we don't really see that in the research. 326 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:17.880 There are some interesting correlations and things, but plenty of other factors that need 327 00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:19.319 to be brought into this, Derek, please let me let you take over 328 00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:25.519 here. Yeah. I also wanted to point out that the children who are 329 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:32.000 living in a family environment that's hostile, violent, angry, that's not healthy 330 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:37.000 either. So sometimes the lesser of two evils is to split up. So 331 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:38.960 as simple as that, I agree, if there's abuse in the home, 332 00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:42.079 divorce in the lesser of two evils. But that doesn't mean that divorce is 333 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:45.559 a good thing or this should be normalized. We should prevent abuse, not 334 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:51.359 say oh if you also mentioned you also mentioned that it's a secular thing. 335 00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:53.720 I think you mentioned at the beginning, right, But if you look at 336 00:24:53.720 --> 00:25:00.119 the divorce statistics, as I understand it, the ones with the lowest divorce 337 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:06.759 rates are Atheists, Lutherans, and Catholics, those with around something like twenty 338 00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:14.640 one percent something like that, whereas Evangelicals and other Christian faith denominations have higher 339 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:18.680 like around forty five percent. So this doesn't sound like a secular issue. 340 00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:23.240 This sounds like a people issue. Jacular doctrine say oh, it's okay to 341 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.359 good a divorce. Most Chris say no, divorce is not of God. 342 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:32.519 I'm not aware of a quote ute secular doctrine that I've ever read that says 343 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:37.880 divorce is good. I can actually point to a number of different religious contexts 344 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:44.319 that would express the idea that divorce is at least allowable, or acceptable or 345 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:49.559 sometimes necessary. Last week, Jim on This show detailed some data around the 346 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:55.119 reality around who is and is not getting divorced. I don't really know how 347 00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:59.079 to help you here, Felix. I also want the best thing for children. 348 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:00.720 I want the best thing for families. I want the best thing for 349 00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:06.640 everybody. And in a lot of cases, the best thing is for two 350 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:11.480 parents to no longer be in a relationship with one another. That is absolutely 351 00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:15.359 true in a non zero percent of cases. And I think that we have 352 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:17.880 to look at this in terms of, well, yeah, sure, fine, 353 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:21.359 no one should ever ever ever get a divorce unless they want one, 354 00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.119 in which case they should probably get one. I mean, isn't that eventually 355 00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:26.519 where we come down to on this, when we're saying, well, no 356 00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.640 one should get a divorce except in this situation, this situation, this situation. 357 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:34.160 Let's not normalize it, but let's allow people to get it when they 358 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.880 should or when they're supposed to. But like, let's not make it normal. 359 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.759 Let's let's only let people do it under very specific circumstances, and then 360 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:47.200 we as outsiders who don't know anything about what's going on in their relationships, 361 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:51.039 whether they're abusive or whatever else, we should shame them for it rather than 362 00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:55.559 normalize divorce. Yeah, you're present any different from what I'm saying here. 363 00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:03.200 Also, it might be worth noting that people who went off track here in 364 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:04.640 my mind, go ahead and continue, go ahead and answer this question. 365 00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:11.559 Let me reconsider that, Felix, can you walk us issue that we're solving. 366 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:14.680 Yeah, I didn't say I didn't say anything about shaming people for getting 367 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:17.920 a divorce. I didn't say anything by making it illegal. That would take 368 00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.960 a huge authoritarian type of state. Well, what's the difference. What's the 369 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:26.240 opposite of normalizing? If we shouldn't normalize, then we should fill in that 370 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:30.279 blank for me. We should work with social workers and churches too when people 371 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:33.279 want to get married, to say okay, is this a healthy relationship? 372 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.079 We should try to bring counseling to people who want to get married and have 373 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.079 children. We should try to just minimize terrible situations that we put children in. 374 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.799 That's actually what I wanted to jump on there, that I went off 375 00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:51.799 on a slight tangent about if I may continue with that. One of the 376 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:57.880 things that so many religion to, especially Christianity, is to frown upon marriage 377 00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:02.559 sex before marriage, and as a result, you find a lot of people 378 00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:07.759 getting married young because they aren't used to having they haven't had sex. They're 379 00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:11.240 not they're not they're desperate for it, but they're not allowed to have it, 380 00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:17.000 and thus marriage is the only option that they're supposedly morally able to do. 381 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:22.599 So if you give them the let's say, the freedom to have sex 382 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:29.039 in a safe sex environment, then people are more likely to make better decisions 383 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:32.000 when it comes to marriage, you know, not marrying out of horniness, 384 00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:36.799 but marrying because they really care about someone and want to live the rest of 385 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.400 their lives with them. So that would be one thing that would be helpful, 386 00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:45.079 and religions don't go along those lines unfortunately. What do you think, 387 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.559 Christie? Yeah? No, I mean I think that it's all fair to 388 00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:52.720 say. I like, I am one of those marriage therapists that you are 389 00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:57.720 advocating for, Felix, and I want to help people with their relationship. 390 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:02.759 I want to help people who aren't married yet decide whether or not they would 391 00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:04.920 like to get married. I'd like to help people who are married figure out 392 00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:10.039 how to have the healthiest, happiest relationship that they can. I work with 393 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:15.759 people who are considering going through divorce, and I don't ever tell them no, 394 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.400 don't do it. And I also don't tell them, yeah, you 395 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.480 should definitely do it, but I help them come to the conclusion that is 396 00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:26.359 best for them, which is exactly what you are advocating for. It sounds 397 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.039 like you're saying, on one hand, like it would take a really authoritarian 398 00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:34.480 government to force people into being able to end their marriage, or maybe they 399 00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.960 shouldn't get into a marriage unless things are perfect. But I just don't see 400 00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:42.599 that that's what's happening in these counseling offices. I don't think that that's what 401 00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:48.920 social workers are doing in these situations. They're helping people use the tools that 402 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.039 they have to make the best possible decisions for themselves. That's the system that 403 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.480 we exist in. That's the system I want to exist in, where people 404 00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:00.119 are doing what is right for them, and ideally they have good support from 405 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:04.960 their community, from their culture to help them make these decisions comfortably. That's 406 00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:10.359 what I was talking about. Giving support to people and while they get married, 407 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:14.720 trying to minimize divorce as much as possible, because saying it's not a 408 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:18.759 good thing, it's not the ideal thing, and it's just when Nilly get 409 00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:22.000 a divorce, whenever you want. Promoting that type of culture isn't healthy for 410 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.079 society, not for children. What do you guys agree that it is harmful? 411 00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:29.200 Most children do not want their parents be a divorce, that they preferred 412 00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:32.680 that their parents stay in a healthy, nothing permitted relationships. You know, 413 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:36.160 I don't know that I could answer that, and I don't know what that 414 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:40.519 answer would even mean if I could, but I would be pretty uncomfortable with 415 00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:44.759 actually making that assertion even if we could make it. The children want their 416 00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:49.119 parents to stay together. You know, just speaking exclusively from my own personal 417 00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:56.319 experience, I was so fucking relieve when my parents split up it was very 418 00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.279 much the right thing to do. It has dramatically of my relationship with my 419 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.960 mother and it has made her life a thousand percent better. I would seconds, 420 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:11.359 yeah, situation, but there's plenty of data. Yeah, So, 421 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:15.559 Felix, I'm all for people making the best possible decisions for themselves, and 422 00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:19.359 I am all for giving them tons and tons and tons of resources to do. 423 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.359 So do we agree on all of that? I agree, Okay, 424 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:29.119 well, fair enough, not the outcome, Felix. I would encourage you 425 00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:34.000 to really focus on your own relationships and how you can make them as positive 426 00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:38.279 as possible. To focus on the relationships of people you love. See if 427 00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:42.960 you can't offer some kindness, some support, some resources to the people you 428 00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:48.079 care about, perhaps the people whose marriages are a little bit shaky right now. 429 00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.799 But I would definitely encourage you to let go of this belief that staying 430 00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:57.599 together is the only or the best thing for everyone to do, because that 431 00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:00.720 belief is not serving you, and it is not serving the people in your 432 00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:06.480 life. It's clearly not something we can support with any meaningful scientific data, 433 00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:10.000 and so I would challenge you to let people make the best possible decisions for 434 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.319 themselves. Yeah, let people live their lives. That's fine. I'm not 435 00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:16.079 going to force people how to live. Cool. Well, all right. 436 00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:21.319 I don't know if you've got anything else here that you want to really jump 437 00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:23.640 in with, or if there's more to be said on this topic, but 438 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:29.279 I'm glad that we can at least agree that people in marriages are the ones 439 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:34.000 most qualified to decide whether or not to stay in those marriages. I just 440 00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.559 have one more questions. I'm sure, yeah, what's that most of in 441 00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:43.240 many of these situations, their decision whether to stay together or not almost excludes 442 00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:46.480 the children's will be it's just the relationship. Shouldn't their mentality be that? 443 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:52.400 Okay, the kids should be a factor. Yes, children should be a 444 00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:57.000 factor in whether or not parents decide to end a marriage. I agree with 445 00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.960 you, and as somebody who I'm just making this shouldn't here, Felix, 446 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:06.559 but I'm going to suggest that it's highly likely that I have had intimate conversations 447 00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:09.799 with a great number of people about whether or not they should stay in their 448 00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:15.039 marriage. Certainly I imagine more than you have. And I never once have 449 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:21.519 had one of those conversations with anybody that didn't involve concern and consideration for the 450 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:24.319 children involved. If you're saying, as a society, we're too careless and 451 00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:28.359 flippant with divorce, okay, all right, I don't really know what to 452 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:32.119 do with that information, but maybe it is worth kind of being careful in 453 00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:37.759 the way we discuss divorce and the way we represent it in film and all 454 00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:40.680 of these different kinds of things. But I don't think that there is this 455 00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:46.000 massive problem that you're presenting of people getting divorced without quote unquote thinking of the 456 00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:51.839 children. Every single time I have ever sat across from somebody who is making 457 00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:54.680 the difficult decision whether or not to stay in a marriage, their child has 458 00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:59.279 been, if not the only thing on their mind. Certainly one of the 459 00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:04.880 most important things to suggest otherwise, I think is to really misunderstand these people 460 00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:07.000 that you are suggesting that you want to help. Yeah, I'm not sure 461 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:12.079 where you get the idea that they just disregard the children. That seems like, 462 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:15.360 I mean, even in popular TV you see that all the time, 463 00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:22.119 with the kids being involved in the decision making process, So that seems a 464 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:24.360 little odd. Do you got anything else for us, Felix, or is 465 00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:27.639 that sort of where we'd like to leave it. I think that was the 466 00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:30.000 topic of the conversation. Thank you much. All right, Well, fair 467 00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:34.559 enough, thank you so much for calling. I'm glad we could we could 468 00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:37.559 see our way through all of this. You have a great day, all 469 00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:40.239 right. Well, it seems like we are actually in the rare situation, 470 00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:45.960 Derek of maybe possibly making a little bit of headway, particularly with some repeat 471 00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:51.000 callers. I don't know, maybe Drey just hung up because we weren't making 472 00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:53.440 headway. But the discussions a little bit more interesting. So I'm here for 473 00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:59.920 it. Yeah, no, I'm I'm fascinated by it. It's it's interesting 474 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:05.639 to me, how you know, they'll often come in with a certain negative 475 00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:08.519 viewpoint on a particular topic, and it turns out that there's a lot more 476 00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:13.519 in common than they actually seem to think. Sure, yeah, and when 477 00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:19.480 we start picking through all of the exception finding and all of the if then 478 00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:22.599 types of statements, we eventually get down to, oh, well, you 479 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:27.039 know, this bad thing happened to me and it was upsetting to me. 480 00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:32.000 And I don't necessarily experience the nuance in other people's situation that I experienced in 481 00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:35.800 my own, So, you know, put yourself in somebody else's shoes, 482 00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:40.280 or maybe just trust that these other people also have a rich and complicated internal 483 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:45.639 life and that they are doing their best to make a complicated decision as well 484 00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:47.480 as they possibly can. I don't know, that's a that's sort of the 485 00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:52.039 Riggerian counselor in me in all of this. But it's important to me that 486 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:57.000 we all take it for granted that everybody around us is just kind of doing 487 00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:00.880 their best, and sometimes their best is total bullshit and we can call that 488 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:07.280 out, but that doesn't mean that we know better necessarily. Amen. Well, 489 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:09.800 we still have some lines open, We've got some colors we're going to 490 00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:14.159 speak to in a moment, but I want to make sure to highlight this 491 00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:19.840 brand new way to support the atheist community of Austin. We are offering engraved 492 00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:23.199 bricks that will become a part of our library and part of our long term 493 00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:28.039 legacy. Let's take a look at this video walking through it all. Have 494 00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:30.760 you ever wanted to make a permanent impact on the atheist community of Austin. 495 00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:36.079 Help support our Space for Free Thought by buying a custom engraved brick to be 496 00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:39.360 laid on the building grounds to help raise funds for improvements. Our building has 497 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:44.360 stood as a beacon for years bringing people together, but three years of emptiness 498 00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:47.039 due to the pandemic have taken a toll, leaving it in disrepair. Help 499 00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:52.159 us restore this hub of connection and support by buying a brick. Moses had 500 00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:55.039 his stone tablets, but we're doing our own version. Join our brick fundraiser 501 00:36:55.159 --> 00:37:00.639 and let your engraved messages stand the test of time minus commandments. Visit tiny 502 00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:05.880 dot cc forward slash ACA bricks for more information. Beautiful, that's definitely an 503 00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:09.440 opportunity to check out. I haven't gotten to see the live bricks in person 504 00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:14.039 just yet. I'm really excited to see what it looks like once we begin 505 00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:16.639 to etch and install and everything else. I think this is a great way 506 00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:22.159 to support our community, and let's leave it there while we touch base again 507 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:29.920 with our repeat color Otari from the Nation of Georgia. Otari, I understand 508 00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:32.760 that you would like to talk again about pornography, and I'm just gonna give 509 00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:37.480 you the same little caveat I've been giving on this subject. I don't want 510 00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:42.320 to hear porn is bad. I would like to hear porn causes distress, 511 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:45.440 because and then we can maybe discuss it. Is that a fair way to 512 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:50.519 frame all this? Hellll de tress you mean, I mean I want to 513 00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:54.719 talk about sexual assault? Yeah, you're you're interested in talking about the harm 514 00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:59.239 caused by adult films. Yeah, yeah, okay, tell me about it. 515 00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:01.360 What's the stress? What's the harm that you were seeing in the world. 516 00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:06.880 Yeah, But if I may before I get into my topic, may 517 00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:09.800 have something grlit to prior call. You know, I'd like to keep it. 518 00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:14.239 I kind of on a one track here if we can. What was 519 00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:16.119 on your mind when you decided to pick up the phone today? Alright, 520 00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:24.400 twelve? So here this party buy American Psychological Association. It said, meta 521 00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:29.400 studist starts a compilation of stabists. As far as I know, a meta 522 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:35.440 studies are compilation of statists. And it concluded that a little doubt that on 523 00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:40.880 the other, individuals to consumt pornography more frequently are more likely to hold atitus 524 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:47.920 contusiltal aggression and engage in acts of sexual aggression. Sure, I'm struggling a 525 00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:52.320 little bit with some of the connection in some of the words that you said, 526 00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:55.840 But I believe you're referring to a study that I've actually read. And 527 00:38:55.880 --> 00:39:00.719 there is some research to indicate that people who use a lot of pornography, 528 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:07.599 particularly violent or aggressive pornography, are also people who are likely to hold violent 529 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:13.039 or aggressive views that we might consider misogynistic or aggressive towards women. There's a 530 00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:17.199 lot of complication and nuance in that correlation. But is that sort of what 531 00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:21.360 you're what you're getting at here? And what you were talking about it, 532 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:27.920 well, I was really just meaning to to sort of summarize what I understood 533 00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:31.960 you suggest, and what I am looking to point out is that there does 534 00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:37.199 seem to be some amount of research and there's a lot of issue I would 535 00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:43.639 say, perhaps with a lot of this research that suggests that people who are 536 00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:50.239 likely to use a lot of pornography are also likely to have violent viewpoints or 537 00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:54.400 be more willing to endorse a violent perspective when it comes to women, when 538 00:39:54.440 --> 00:40:00.039 it comes to sexuality, and there is a lot of nuance to get in 539 00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:02.039 into all of that. I think the most important word here in all of 540 00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:07.280 this is the word correlation. I'm going to see if I can't pull something 541 00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:09.920 specific up here in just a moment, but I wanted to hear from you 542 00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:15.039 Otari, whether or not that is sort of your concern and the position that 543 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:19.159 you're taking here. I mean, this is a sappy and the specifically meta 544 00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:25.480 stati and the this is pompile of the statist of the chron that's the awful 545 00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:30.920 results of adult films, and if you're usually said, most people don't sis 546 00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:39.159 is aggressions in adult films. Here's another stati which estimates that nearly forty percent 547 00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:45.840 of adult film cell contents such aggressions. Okay, so again, what we're 548 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:53.079 ultimately saying is that there's a correlation between watching sexually aggressive pornography and holding the 549 00:40:53.199 --> 00:41:00.280 view that women are perhaps deserving of sexual aggression what we often refer or two 550 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:07.960 as the confluence model of sexual aggression that they called there, but they that 551 00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:12.719 is not research that I'm aware of ever having existed ever. In fact, 552 00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:15.679 this is something that I looked into to a fair amount of length within the 553 00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:22.039 last couple of weeks and have some kind of ready to go studies and things 554 00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:23.639 that I may be able to share with you if you would like to reach 555 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:29.320 out over email. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how best to help you 556 00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.039 or what I might be able to explain or describe to you now, other 557 00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:37.760 than to say, if there is any amount of data showing that watching violent 558 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:43.960 pornography then leader later leads people to be more likely to commit acts of violence, 559 00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:47.519 I've actually seen a lot of data saying the exact opposite is likely true. 560 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:52.320 So if you want to maybe again send us an email and let me 561 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:54.639 take a look at what you're looking at, maybe help you understand what it 562 00:41:54.679 --> 00:41:58.719 is that you're reading, or share some of it with our audience with a 563 00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:00.679 little bit more nuance. I'm happy to help any way that I can, 564 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:06.920 or I'll share my studied system. Okay, well we will. We'll take 565 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.920 a look and appreciate you sharing that information. Thanks for giving us a call, 566 00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.280 Derek. How does that notion land with you at all? Just this 567 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:23.480 sort of correlative idea that because pornography exists, that children are more likely to 568 00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:29.480 be assaulted, that women are more likely to be assaulted. Does that pass 569 00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:31.880 the smell test for you on any level? Is there well smoke to that 570 00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:40.079 fire. I've been a writer for many years and having read a gazillion basically 571 00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:46.280 novels in fantasy science fiction that's contained sexuality and all that, you'll see people 572 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:50.280 acting things out, so you know, like I don't know, if a 573 00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:54.559 kid reads a book on Valiant Night slaying a dragon, they may act it 574 00:42:54.599 --> 00:43:00.360 out as a kid. I was briefly banned from Watch in the teenage Mutant 575 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:06.719 Ninja Turtles after being caught karate chopping my refrigerators. So you know there is 576 00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:12.320 a monkey see monkey? Do component to humanity? Right? Again? Does 577 00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:15.360 that mean that you know playing Halo or watching John Wick leads to violence, 578 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:22.639 doesn't mean that watching violent pornography whatever that actually means leads to assault. More 579 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:24.400 tenuous, right, yeah, very tenuous especially. I mean, you know, 580 00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:29.360 there's a difference between adults and children when it comes to sex and violence, 581 00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:34.800 of course, and I think you're going to find that. It's. 582 00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:39.599 Yes, you're gonna even see adults acting out things that they might see in 583 00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:45.559 pornography and the like. I mean, hell of Larper's live action role players, 584 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:52.559 they're acting out of fantasy adventure. You'll also see the same thing with 585 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:59.280 uh those you know those uh what's the term for it, the martial arts 586 00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:05.119 with using using armor and wealth fencing and things along those lines. No, 587 00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:09.760 I was thinking more along the lines of the actual enacting combats. But oh 588 00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:13.920 yeah it starts with an h. I think, sorry, it's eluding me 589 00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:15.599 at the moment. But yeah, so people will act out things, and 590 00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:19.920 when it comes to sex. Sure, if someone sees some interesting act in 591 00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.760 a porno, they may act it out in their regular lives. But to 592 00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:29.880 go to the extent where you're saying, well, you can't watch this because 593 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.159 that might influence you in some way, you'd have to eliminate all fiction, 594 00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:39.039 all movies, books, there would be no you'd be to coin a phrase, 595 00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:44.880 you'd be destroying the soul of humanity by getting rid of all those arts. 596 00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:47.639 Yeah, okay, there can be some negative aspects that perhaps come out 597 00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:52.760 of it, but you'd have to really establish that well scientifically in order to 598 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:58.800 justify removing that from the public sphere. Yeah. No, I am well 599 00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:01.920 aware that the last thing that the Internet needs is another middle aged white guy 600 00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:07.960 defining art. But I very much think of pornography as a form of art, 601 00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:12.400 and art as a form of play. You know, it's it's something 602 00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:16.599 that mammals do. We are afraid of snakes, and so and a. 603 00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:21.639 You know, a young kitten needs to learn eventually to not only be afraid 604 00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:23.639 of snakes, but possibly to be able to kill one. So the mother 605 00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:28.559 cat finds a snake, wounds it, brings it to the kittens, and 606 00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:32.280 they play around with it as a way of working through the fact that snakes 607 00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:37.159 are scary, as a way of working through the skills that they need to 608 00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:42.639 eventually be able to utilize as a way of forming bonds between one another. 609 00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:47.559 Like play and sexuality, pornography, art, all of these things are just 610 00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:52.280 ways for us to sort of work out the fact that we're afraid of dying, 611 00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:57.039 and so we kind of like to see John Wick live on the edge. 612 00:45:57.119 --> 00:46:00.440 You know, we're afraid of finding relationships, and so we want to 613 00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:05.960 watch romantic comedies and see people love each other and connect. We want to 614 00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:09.239 maybe have the emotion of what it was like going on our first date now 615 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:13.679 that we're on our fiftieth year of marriage. Like even what is all here 616 00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:17.400 to do is appealing because it makes you feel certain emotions. I mean, 617 00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:24.199 we are emotional beings. It's nice to have those emotions titilated in various ways. 618 00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:29.039 So even horror, even fear, is an excitement. It makes one 619 00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:32.159 feel alive. Yeah, you don't want to eliminate that absolutely well, all 620 00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:37.519 right, let me take a quick break here to mention our new limited edition 621 00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:43.480 T shirt one that reads this month in the Talk Heathen store, Jesus can't 622 00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:47.559 answer prayers because the WiFi in heaven sucks. Love that you can find that 623 00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:53.199 at tiny dot cc slash merch Aca to get one now. And of course 624 00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:58.960 I want to take a moment to remind people about our next upcoming live show. 625 00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:01.360 If you happen to be in the Austin area on September twenty fourth, 626 00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:06.960 twenty twenty three, consider joining us for a live broadcast of Talk Heathen and 627 00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:10.320 the Atheist Experience Talk Ethan this month is going to be hosted by Objectively Dan 628 00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:15.760 and Sophia Spina, as well as AXP hosted by Dan and Jamie. The 629 00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:19.400 Blimelimy doors are open at noon. Really hope to see you there. I 630 00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:22.920 know you hear us talk about it each week, but it is absolutely a 631 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:28.000 really great time and I think it brings so much new energy to these shows 632 00:47:28.039 --> 00:47:30.039 that we've been doing for years now and gives us all a chance to form 633 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:35.079 community around him. It's definitely a great time. And with that, let's 634 00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:39.599 talk to Dave in India, who mercifully I think has something for us other 635 00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:44.280 than Sex's bat him. Okay, Dave, what did you want to talk 636 00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:49.360 to us about today? Hello? Hey, so visim my understanding. I 637 00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:54.119 see that atheism is the denial of a metaphysical substrate. Would that be would 638 00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:58.119 you say that's a great understanding? No, not at all. Yeah, 639 00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:00.000 I'd need to define all of those terms to get there. But why don't 640 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:05.039 you walk us through you mean, so, I mean like an inverted pyramid, 641 00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:09.199 like an inverted triangle, And the more you go down, everything gets 642 00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:14.199 smaller and smaller, and it gets much difficult to measure each of those things. 643 00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:17.400 So if you go beyond a certain point, there exists a layer which 644 00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:22.440 I understand as metaphysical substrate, which is like before the Big Bang. So 645 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:28.480 and I would I would understand that that is something which cannot be explained by 646 00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:32.559 science, but that might be God itself, like that might be the God. 647 00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:37.000 So just just wanted to get your thoughts on that. Yeah, Derek, 648 00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:42.880 I think you may have more experience with both metaphysics and substrate than I 649 00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:47.199 actually do. Are you making header tails of this? Yeah? Yeah, 650 00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:52.599 Well the first thing is I think you're working under the assumption that atheism is 651 00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:57.840 the denial of God's rather than just the lack of belief in God's There's a 652 00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:00.039 huge difference there. One is a belief, in the others a lack of 653 00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:07.960 belief. And I would think you'll find that most atheists are in the category 654 00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:12.320 of lacking belief, although there are some that actually actively don't and some are 655 00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:17.920 more nuanced in the sense that this God has testicle predictions that end up being 656 00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:22.599 wrong. So I actively disbelieve in that God, but this one does not. 657 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:24.880 It's too nebulous. So we just don't have an opinion on it, 658 00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:30.679 or we just have no belief in that. That's one second, and so 659 00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:35.960 second is the beginning of the universe doesn't have anything to do with atheism. 660 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:39.440 Atheism is the lack of belief in God's Whereas what you're talking about is physics. 661 00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:45.440 Go what happened before the Big Bang? If before actually makes any sense? 662 00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:51.519 For all we know, one of the simplest explanations that we have that's 663 00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:57.480 natural is that we have the quantum realm that exists. We know the quantum 664 00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:00.280 realm exists, We've got very good evidence for it in our universe. And 665 00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:07.480 what if it extends beyond our universe and our universe was just a fluctuation that 666 00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:12.920 resulted in our local universe and could result in many more universes. If that's 667 00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:17.840 the case, then what we have is a completely natural explanation that has no 668 00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:22.000 need for anything metaphysical. Yes, it's true we don't know where this quantum 669 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:27.119 realm would have come from in the first place, but that's for the You've 670 00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:30.800 got the same problem if you're a theist, where did God come from? 671 00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:36.679 What caused him to exist in the first place? You can't really answer a 672 00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:42.719 mystery by evoking an even greater mystery. It's easier, smarter, more logical 673 00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:45.960 to say, I don't know, simple as that. What do you think, 674 00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:50.320 Christie? Yeah, I'm curious how comfortable Dave is was sitting in that 675 00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:55.000 space, because it does seem like you have the simpler model and none of 676 00:50:55.039 --> 00:50:59.760 this really gets us to Therefore God, Dave, what do you say? 677 00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:04.880 Yeah? Yes, So like quantum, what I understand is that quantum is 678 00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:08.079 just a measure. But it's just that it's so small that we name it 679 00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:13.760 quantum. But there isn't really anything in nature that we can point to and 680 00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:15.960 say that this is quantum or that is quantum. It's it's still that the 681 00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:22.199 particle is so small that we have defined it as quantum. But what if 682 00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:27.400 we go not exactly and particles pop in and out of existence at the quantum 683 00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:30.639 level, these virtual particles. If if particles can pop in and out of 684 00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:37.119 existence out of evidently nothing, then why not universes? Yeah? So so 685 00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:42.840 like ether? Right? So ether would which is counterspace, would be that 686 00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:47.519 particular place from which the particles pop out of and then also pop back in 687 00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:54.960 two so every like twenty yeah. Ether. Yeah, that that concept was 688 00:51:55.039 --> 00:52:00.199 disproved a long time ago, one hundred years ago. I think I not 689 00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:04.480 a physicist, so I can't say for certain, but that was the idea 690 00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:07.679 of where the medium that light traveled through. I believe right. It doesn't 691 00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:13.480 do things like the base. Yeah, so like the base, the base, 692 00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:19.559 I would say the base substance in which everything exists is either because even 693 00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:24.480 Tesla quoted in one of us uh lecture, I think that light is nothing 694 00:52:24.679 --> 00:52:30.920 but a sound wave in the ether. So it's it's yeah, bringing up 695 00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:35.559 you're bringing up something from way, way way in the past. That was 696 00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:40.159 a misunderstanding of how physics worked at the time. It's like bringing up leeches. 697 00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:45.800 Well, no, leaches actually are useful. Bringing up the idea of 698 00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:51.239 humors in the blood causing people to be hot headed or sick, or the 699 00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:57.639 light that's discredited in modern in modern medicine and the ether, correct me if 700 00:52:57.639 --> 00:53:00.559 I'm wrong. Anyone else who's more versed in physics and I am. That 701 00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:07.679 was one of those long discredited explanations in physics Dave ultimately only check in with 702 00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:15.079 where you're coming at this from. What is your expertise in physics and what 703 00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:20.119 is it that you have discovered, and what you understand about what you've discovered 704 00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:24.199 that makes you feel like you have found something that isn't really being noticed or 705 00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:29.360 discussed by the people who are in that field, by the people who obsess 706 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:32.599 over these things. Yeah, I'm like, but I'm just a normal Joshmo 707 00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:37.920 to be honest, But like, I watch a lot of different stuff. 708 00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:40.559 But here's two things that I will point out. The first thing is that 709 00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:47.239 wireless TestU figured out wireless electric transmission, and that is only possible if there 710 00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:52.360 is a medium like ether, which is there for it to happen. And 711 00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:55.079 the second thing was I used to like two three years back, I used 712 00:53:55.079 --> 00:54:00.559 to meditate a lot, and during one of those meditations, I was able 713 00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:05.960 to experience ether in my neck while meditating. It was basically a state where 714 00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:10.440 I could see like a small energy, a small empty ball in our neck. 715 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:15.559 So so basically what I'm saying is that the base substance, but no 716 00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:20.480 matter which the realm it is, whate whether it's a different renewverse or disuniverse, 717 00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:23.920 would be ether, and on top of that we have different different particles, 718 00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:30.800 so that's like an inverted triangle upside down. Sure, Dave. I 719 00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:35.519 mean I appreciate that you are a average Joe punching above your weight class by 720 00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:39.719 studying these really complex notions of physics. And I have to point out that 721 00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:45.760 if you are coming to conclusions that are not well supported by the actual titans 722 00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:51.079 of that field of intellectual study, that there's likely something that you've missed. 723 00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:53.840 And I'd like to add in here, yes, the actual I did a 724 00:54:53.880 --> 00:55:00.559 quick look up here. Yeah, nineteen o five Albert Einstein made it the 725 00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:07.480 concept of the ether irrelevant with his formulation of special relativity. So yeah, 726 00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:15.400 that's not a thing in physics anymore back then, not now. Yeah. 727 00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:19.519 So but that's the thing, right that if you go to black hole, 728 00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:23.039 then all of the current physics space, right, like even Einstein's physics, 729 00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:27.679 and all of them fail if you go to black hole. So yeah, 730 00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:30.519 they are right. But what I've seen is that when you speak with an 731 00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:37.039 atomist or like materialists, they always deny ether and they don't acknowledge its existence 732 00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:42.679 and they try to replace it with some other substance. But business there's no 733 00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:45.920 evidence it exists. That the problem. So yeah, that is the thing, 734 00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:52.719 that it's counterspace, so like we cannot I don't think we can conceptually 735 00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:57.679 under like imagine a picture of it because all we can imagine is like space 736 00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:01.440 everywhere, but we can't really imagine space. But ether is counter space. 737 00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:07.079 So yeah, I just I believe that it is there. But yeah, 738 00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:12.360 maybe I need to do more research on that. I would advise that because 739 00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:15.320 it's there's just no evidence for the ether. It was it was a proposed 740 00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:22.679 explanation no longer needed with the development of special relativity by no other than Albert 741 00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:28.760 Einstein himself, So yeah, I would look into that. Yeah. And 742 00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:34.920 really, as you are sort of being curious right and doing this not for 743 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:38.519 work, not for research science, but for your own curiosity, I can 744 00:56:38.599 --> 00:56:43.800 understand why you would want to go down some you know, tesla rabbit holes 745 00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:47.679 and start looking at some of this more like esoteric and outdated science. It 746 00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:53.679 makes for a good story oftentimes, and there's certainly value in looking at Euclid's 747 00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:58.880 geometry and looking at you know, like some of these like older forms of 748 00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:01.519 science and seeing what holds up and what doesn't. But if you are drawing 749 00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:07.079 your conclusions about the nature of the universe, about you know, whether or 750 00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:10.679 not there is a god creator, and some of these like really big picture 751 00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:15.519 important questions. You should probably be looking at the latest and greatest. You 752 00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:21.639 should probably be looking at what the people who really understand these subjects are saying, 753 00:57:21.880 --> 00:57:24.039 and be I don't mean to be at all rude about it, but 754 00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:30.119 very humble about the conclusions that you're drawing. Is that a fair framework for 755 00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:32.119 me to offer you days Yeah, yeah, no, that that's perfectly Yeah. 756 00:57:32.119 --> 00:57:35.960 I'm just an average guy. I don't claim to be an expert in 757 00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:38.280 anything, but yeah, I am curious, as you pointed out, and 758 00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:42.760 that's why I like look at all this stuff. But yeah, yeah, 759 00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:45.559 maybe I should, I should do more research, and yeah, I look 760 00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:49.800 at it that more. But yeah, keep reading, keeping keep having fun. 761 00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:53.639 You know you're doing good work. But consider your sources, right right, 762 00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:58.679 right, that's perfect awesome, Yeah, all right, I think I 763 00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:04.000 sure love to ask you to give us a call back after you have a 764 00:58:04.039 --> 00:58:06.800 little bit more under your belt. I know, we definitely have some folks 765 00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:09.199 here that would be very interested in talking you through some of the physics of 766 00:58:09.199 --> 00:58:13.400 this a little bit differently and maybe with a little more nuance and what we're 767 00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.400 able to offer, But for now, really appreciate your time. Yeah, 768 00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:20.599 thank you appreciate. Okay, by h you have a good one. Well, 769 00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:24.039 take a quick moment to read a super chat that came in earlier today 770 00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:30.440 from Ben nine, who offered four ninety nine stating the Vatican has been abusing 771 00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:35.360 children long before porn was on the internet. Apples and oranges definitely a fair 772 00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:37.679 point. I'm not somebody who wants to just throw his hands up in the 773 00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:40.960 air and say, well, humans are just awful and always have been and 774 00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:46.960 always will be. But when we talk about sex, we get so uncomfortable 775 00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:52.679 that something like pornography is something that we want to just blame all of society's 776 00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:57.760 ills on. Or if we had a bad experience with divorce or something along 777 00:58:57.800 --> 00:59:00.599 those lines, we'd like to say, well, then nobody should ever have 778 00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:04.639 a divorce because this is what's wrong with the world today. And you know, 779 00:59:04.840 --> 00:59:07.800 life is just a little more complex than all of that. Always shades 780 00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:13.079 of great, Yeah, certainly, Well, we've had some fun conversations today. 781 00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:16.159 Definitely, there is a lot that we are going to work to keep 782 00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:22.039 going. You can find more on some of these topics, maybe share some 783 00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:27.559 of the research that I'm skeptical exists but that has maybe been brought forward today 784 00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:31.559 in a lot of that is going to be including my open letter in the 785 00:59:31.960 --> 00:59:38.039 Talk Heathen community fan page on our Facebook fan page at tiny dot cc slash 786 00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:45.840 fb tg, and you can also follow us the atheist community of Austin on 787 00:59:45.880 --> 00:59:51.960 TikTok. Talk Heathen specifically has a TikTok at Talk Heathen. You can join 788 00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:54.880 us there for the pre show that we do every week. Richard Jilliver has 789 00:59:54.880 --> 01:00:00.840 been doing those and bringing in a lot of very interesting conversation, so we'd 790 01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:06.239 love to keep these discussions going. After we wrap up our show here today, 791 01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:10.320 Derek and I as well as Richard are going to be in the atheist 792 01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:15.880 community of Discord for a live after show, So if you were watching this 793 01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:20.920 live on September seventeenth, we hope that you'll join us there. Otherwise, 794 01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:25.000 Derek, we've been kind of bouncing back and forth between a variety of different 795 01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:29.760 things, I hope, yeah, yeah, and having a little bit more 796 01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:32.440 nuanced than maybe the last time I was on this show, which is such 797 01:00:32.480 --> 01:00:36.599 a relief to not just have to keep hearing porn bad, porn bad, 798 01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:39.639 porn bad. But for the things that we've maybe touched on, what do 799 01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:45.559 you feel is maybe important to revisit and get a second pair of eyeballs on 800 01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:50.000 it, or maybe just a little bit more attention to good question. Well, 801 01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:55.119 the one that keeps popping into mind for me is that every time somebody 802 01:00:55.199 --> 01:01:05.079 wants to bring up something bad about pornography violence, that when it's they're trying 803 01:01:05.079 --> 01:01:07.639 to get rid of it on a biblical basis, they don't have a leg 804 01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:12.039 to stand on because the Bible is full of that shit. So sure, 805 01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:16.800 yeah, that one always needs to be in the back pocket to bring out 806 01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:22.239 when somebody makes one of those assumptions. Really, all of these conversations can 807 01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:25.559 kind of fit into that box of like, okay, so there is a 808 01:01:25.639 --> 01:01:30.599 problem. What does God actually have to do with that problem? Like we've 809 01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:37.920 pointed out, being an evangelical Christian does not protect your marriage from divorce more 810 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:42.480 so than being an atheist does. Yeah, that must drive them nuts because 811 01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:46.239 quite frankly, yeah, that goes so against the whole idea that biblical marriage 812 01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:50.159 is the right way to do it, and that's the happiest way you're gonna 813 01:01:50.199 --> 01:01:53.920 put your focus on the family. Yeah, it definitely creates a great number 814 01:01:53.960 --> 01:02:00.320 of issues for us all to be working under these assumptions that they Biblical way 815 01:02:00.320 --> 01:02:04.159 of doing things is the best way of doing things. That idea may have 816 01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:07.719 made a little bit more sense when you were in a small village and trying 817 01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:15.360 to compare your understanding of your village to the village across the river and what 818 01:02:15.519 --> 01:02:20.639 that actually looked like. But here in modern world, we actually have the 819 01:02:20.760 --> 01:02:25.039 data. We have the capacity to see what happens when pornography is viewed as 820 01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:30.480 evil in a society or is made illegal in a society, and then that 821 01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:37.719 changes. Does it immediately lead to some huge uptick in divorce, in violence, 822 01:02:37.039 --> 01:02:42.480 in assault of children. No, it's complicated. There's nuance in all 823 01:02:42.519 --> 01:02:45.519 of that data, but there's certainly a lot to look at. Well. 824 01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:49.960 Before we begin to wrap up today, I want to make sure to mention 825 01:02:50.119 --> 01:02:52.760 all five of our top five patrons. We've got a little bit of a 826 01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:57.960 shake up this week, as left in the leaves, coming in at number 827 01:02:57.960 --> 01:03:01.079 five. Number four is Calvetti, hell Vetti, number three, DeVore Valgine 828 01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:06.719 number two, Oops all Singularity and again holding on to that top spot is 829 01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:10.480 Dingleberry Jackson, with our honorable mention this week being Neil the six oh four 830 01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:16.000 Atheists, our good friend and buddy. Otherwise, I suppose I appreciate everybody 831 01:03:16.039 --> 01:03:21.400 for giving us a call this week, for working to help us advance the 832 01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:27.960 conversation a little bit beyond the whole sex is bad. I want to say 833 01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:34.039 on a personal note, that these conversations can be so restricted to that idea 834 01:03:34.280 --> 01:03:37.679 that it can seem as if we are in two separate camps of porn good 835 01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:44.039 porn bad, and all of the nuance about how sex workers are being treated 836 01:03:44.239 --> 01:03:50.599 gets lost. All of the nuance around becoming hyper fixated on a outlet or 837 01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:55.000 a form of expression that can damage your marriage or damage your relationships gets lost. 838 01:03:55.280 --> 01:04:00.440 There are very real conversations to be had about the way we moderate the 839 01:04:00.519 --> 01:04:06.280 Internet, about the way we allow information to spread freely, and about the 840 01:04:06.360 --> 01:04:10.960 labor practices that we operate under. There's a hell of a lot to be 841 01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:15.519 said here, and I just appreciate being part of a community of free thinkers 842 01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:19.679 who are trying to have those conversations. So I really am grateful to all 843 01:04:19.719 --> 01:04:24.519 of you for calling in and for joining us. I want to say thank 844 01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:29.079 you to Derek for being here, as we have lost his connection briefly, 845 01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:33.239 and I suppose I will just take this as an opportunity to give out some 846 01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:38.559 love rings and to thank all of y'all for being a part of these conversations. 847 01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:43.960 We so appreciate you being here with us and look forward to seeing you 848 01:04:44.039 --> 01:05:01.840 next week. We want the truth, so watch truth oneted live Friday at 849 01:05:01.880 --> 01:05:08.360 seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot cc slash y t tw and call into 850 01:05:08.360 --> 01:05:13.400 the show at five one two nine nine one nine two four two or connect 851 01:05:13.480 --> 01:05:17.000 to the show. I'mline at tiny dot cc slash call tw