And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Wranglestampars incident. It doesn't
involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our
heads. He's so gossic. Guy Sorcerer is standing in the cleary. He
turned over to my father, held his hand, and he looked in his
eyes and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live
show. We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on podcastufo dot
com. During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room,
and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. Hello,
and welcome to the show. This is Martin willis your host, and
in just a minute we have Alejandro Rojas coming up with UFO updates. Our
guest this evening is Charles Holt, and I'm very excited to have him on.
He was, of course, the Air Force colonel and former base commander
of RAF Bentwaters near Woodbridge and during a course the nineteen eighty encounter I think
is probably one of the most documented or the most documented. Actually UFO siting
real excited about tonight's guest. I want to thank all the supporters for helping
out with the show. Now, if you can't support the show and you
still want to listen to the entire show for free, all you got to
do is listen every Wednesday evening at eight to ten Eastern Standard time on podcastufo
dot com, or you can listen to the show as a podcast the following
evening Thursdays at ten to midnight Eastern Standard Time on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
Supporters, I would like to thank you also in a couple of different
ways. Next week I'm going to draw some email names out for two prizes,
and one of the prizes is going to be a book that is signed
by Charles Holt and it's called The Whole Perspective. If you look online,
you'll see that book is forty some odd dollars up because it is an eight
hundred page book. So this is going to be signed by him, and
that is one of the Christmas drawings I'm going to do. The second one
may take a few different people before I can get someone to actually take me
up on it, and that is four nights at my guest house up on
the Mountain in Maine. You would probably want to come in the summertime because
there's lakes nearby, there's hiking right outside the door, There's a lot to
do in the area. It's a beautiful area. And so I'd love to
have a person or a couple or even two couples if they'd like to come.
But I'm going to be drawing for that. And also the person can
sit in on a Wednesday night live in the studio during one of the shows.
So that's another gift I'll be drawing. And again, how that's going
to work is they're going to reach out after I do a drawing and reach
out to that person. If they can actually make it here to Maine,
then they will be the winner. And I will keep drawing names until I
find someone that can actually make it here and take me up on the Christmas
offer. So that's it. What if I draw your name, Alejandro,
that would be great for which prize? No, I can't. I want
to win at the book because it's forty something dollars and why the heck.
That's one thing I want to ask is why is it so dang expensive?
That's a lot of money, and you price yourself out. Nobody wants to
buy a book for that much. Yeah, it's eight hundred pages. I
think that's the justification of it. That I am going to ask him this
evening about that. And my concern is I want people to get it,
you know, I want more. I think it's a great book to have,
It's something everybody should have. But when it's that expensive, you know,
you just you don't reach as big of an audience. And I think
it needs as big of an audience as possible, right right, And you
and I both saw Charles down in North Carolina speak and I always going to
be at the UFO Congress is coming February. But I tell you what a
solid, solid man. And there wasn't a word that he spoke that I
didn't believe. I was very I was glued to watching him speak about this
situation and his emotions, and you know, all that was really something He
can come across gruff. I mean I get to see him fairly regularly.
Last I saw him was in Roswell. He was out there. But some
do this panel in Vegas and some others, and he comes across gruff,
no doubt. But it's because you know, you got to think these kernels
are like this. My girlfriend's dad is a colonel. Of course, there's
John Alexander, who I speak with quite a bit. Colonels are the boss
and they are demanding and they come across it's do this, do that?
You know? This is this is the way things are. And he,
you know, integrity is a big Dylan and the integrity of the story he's
trying to tell. And of course, and I think people can understand he
experienced this amazing thing and when people are expressing things that are inaccurate, it
frustrates him. For instance, last week we talked on your show about this,
Steve Longero. We've got the interview at Openminds dot TV that Philip Mantle
did and that made some news of this guy who was a witness at Randall
Shimp but doesn't have a very good memory of what happened when and so he's
definitely seems to have some things wrong, at least when it comes to details.
And you know, I was on and I had asked to hold a
couple of things about that, and he was a bit disappointed, and you
know, the information that was was off and I'm sure he'll share that with
you if you ask him about it here. But and then we had a
reply some lady saying, oh, I saw him the next day at the
hospital, and he's like, no, I wasn't at the hospital the next
day. Who the heck is this lady? And she may have seen him
there at some point, maybe even months later or weeks later, but it
wasn't the next day as she claimed, But she probably just it was a
long time ago. She probably has her memory wrong. In fact, I
have absolutely no idea what I was doing on any given day in nineteen eighty,
let alone Christmas, right, right, you know, I mean I
can understand how the you know, the night of the events would be like
burned in your memory. But you know, a day or two after,
you know, you're right. I mean, that's a long time ago to
try to remember something accurately. Yeah, unless there was something that would tie
that she thought tied him into the event the next day. Otherwise, you
know, it doesn't make any sense. Well, meeting you for the first
time was a very big life event for me. But and I remember it
was at our conferences at the UFO Congress. But beyond that, I can't
remember the details. See, I think you were wearing that T shirt though.
They see, now you got that wrong. See how the memory works.
Oh I got it wrong. Yeah we met in North Carolina first,
Oh see exactly, which was years before. Yeah, wow, you're right.
You even just referenced it earlier. But there you go, there you
go. Proof is in the pudding. Mmm, pudding in the pudding.
So what you said, there's not a lot going on in the UFO world,
Well, you know, and it's hard to say that, and I
know lots of people be like, oh man, you're missing out. And
there are a couple stories. Now Here's the thing is that there are a
couple of stories I'm following up on that look interesting, but I don't like
to talk about them until I can verify them because there's so much bad information
out there. Otherwise, if I'm not referencing a story that you've heard about
or seen on Facebook, it's probably because it's a BS story that's in one
of the UK tabloids that is just being blown out of proportion and it's not
substantiated, and I just don't feel comfortable, you know, sharing that kind
of stuff. So I try to bring you know, some good information.
But there is I mean, there's a couple of sightings that we have remove
on that are interesting. And also John Glenn of course passed away unfortunately in
the last week, and there is kind of a cool video going around Time
magazine. We have a link for them in our UFO headlines posted it as
well. But it's this clip. It's a really funny clip from Fraser.
Did you see this? No? I haven't, Oh so this is really
funny. So essentially Fraser and I can't remember what was her the assistant's name
her or like the yeah, Daphne I think, oh no, no,
no, Daphne was his girlfriend. Yeah no, no, no, no,
no, I got the one who worked in the radio station with him.
Oh okay, yes, I know I could see her, but I
don't remember her name. Yes. So anyways, they're in the booth next
door arguing about something and John Glenn is sitting in the other booth and he's
like, he's like, you know, they're recording him and they're not paying
attention to what he's saying. They've got him muted and there are well meanwhile,
John Glenn's like, you know, I just for me, honestly,
he's a big deal and I've got to come clean on something. One time.
We were out there and we saw this thing zipping around and and I
don't know what the heck it was, and you know, they told us
to shut up about it and not tell anybody, and it could have been
an alien or something, and it was. And so he's going off about
this u bothing and then he comes in after it's done, you know,
and it's real funny because they're going back and forth. It gets done and
he comes in and he's like, hey, guys, about what I was
just talking about. And they look at him, said, oh, yeah,
that's great, even though they needn't hear it. He said, you
know, I think I went too far. Did you record? Where's that
recording? And she points to where the tape is and he's like, yeah,
I better take this, and he takes it and leaves. And it's
just funny because of course that would have been a huge story and they lost
it. But yeah, yeah, So that's that's the only real UFO story
around him. Really. I think that that's a that's a anything you know,
that you can hang your hat on or anything, which is in the
story. It's just a fraser thing, but that's something fun to look at.
Otherwise, we do have another triangle UFO sighting that was submitted to move
on. And these, of course are just always fascinating, as you and
I have talked about many times. This one's in Connecticut, a town called
New Milford. And what's interesting with this is that this gentleman was approaching a
stop sign. It was November seventeenth at eight forty five pm, and he
saw a brightly lit craft. It was really bright, and it was moving
towards him, and as he got closer, he saw a blinking red light
and but it was moving really slowly and the low and he said it was
silent, and then it made a ninety degree turn and at this point he
could see it more clearly and it was a perfectly it was a black perfect
perfect black triangles what he called it. So and he put a drawing with
the sighting of what he had seen. But that's a that I think is
a pretty interesting sighting and that you know, like we talked about what's up
with these black triangle deals? Man, I know, And did he happen
to say how big he thought the thing was? Now? Yeah, because
that's you know a lot of times you hear they're you know, just enormous,
you know, but not always you know, Yeah, and you know
if the the thing that is puzzling when people say it's military secret spacecraft and
all that, you know, top secret, is you know, if we
do have something like this, it just seems like it would be such an
astonishing, you know, invention that it would be talked about more or something
or used in a war or you know, something it just for to go
over silently, quietly and and you know, slowly. It's just something that
just is really puzzling. Yeah, especially for this phenomena to have been going
on for so long, so it's pretty weird. So but we're really excited.
I really haven't announced it, but you know a lot of the theme
of the congress is going to be around the Phoenix Sights because it's the twentieth
anniversary, twenty seventeen will be and the conference is a month before, you
know, the sightings happened in March, the actual twentieth anniversary. So we're
going to have a panel and David Marler's going to be speaking at the conference.
He's going to be speaking about the Battle of La and he's spent a
lot of research on the famous photograph and he's got some research and discoveries nobody's
ever heard before that he's going to be talking about. So that's exciting.
But he's going to be on the panel. Link Tai, who did the
documentary about the Phoenix Lights, a great documentary, is going to be there.
We haven't announced this, but James Fox will be there all right,
and because he did, you know, a couple of documentaries, and his
documentaries included the Phoenix Lights, and he's going to be bringing with him some
of these witnesses to the Phoenix Lights, so we'll hear first hand from them
on the stage. But we're going to have a panel with these guys,
and I think Richard Dolan too will be on that panel to talk about the
Phoenix Lights and their significance and triangle UFO and those sort of topics. So
that's going to be fun. Wow, that's going to be awesome. I'm
really excited about that. So I you know, I know that James is
still working on this seven oh one movie, and I know he said,
you know, it's a couple of years out still, there's a lot that
goes into something like that, and if anyone hasn't caught his previous movies.
They're really really good. One of my actually, my favorite UFO movie is
is Out of the Blue. And what's the last one? I know what
I saw, I know what I saw. Yeah, yeah, they are
Most people say the one or both are their favorite UFO documentaries and they are
really really good ones. So yeah, I know. On the seven oh
one, they lost their funding for a period of time, so that happened.
Sometimes when you have funding, you know, sometimes producers providing many back
off for whatever reason, their own financial reasons. But they lost funding for
a period of time. But supposedly they have gotten some new funding, so
they are moving forward again. But we'll get an update on that at the
conference. Great, awesome, Well thanks so much, Alejandro, no problem,
Thank you, my friend. All right, and we'll talk next week.
That'll be just a couple of days before Christmas. That's right, next
week, all right, okay, everyone, So hanging there. After this
quick music break, we'll be back with Charles Halt. Charles. Welcome to
the show. Charles, are you there, it's that mute button. It's
yeah, it was the mute button again. How are you welcome to the
show. So let's say I was just looking. It was about two years
December eleventh was the last time you're on. You're on with John Burrows,
but so glad to have you back. You have a new book out and
uh, it's eight hundred pages long and it's called The The Halt Boy.
I'm having a brain all perspective. Thank you so sorry about that, the
Halt perspective. And how long did it take you to put that that book
together? I know you did with John hands for years now. That book
is not written as a best seller necessarily. That book is written for the
serious UFO person that really wants to know the whole story, because it covers
more than just what I did. It covers a whole lot of other how
shall I say, peripheral stuff, some of which is nonsense and explains it
and I comment on it. Uh huh. It's got a thousand pictures,
some in Keller, oh in color. Yeah. So this was a just
just to clear the air a little bit, because I know, you know,
you heard aliha and mentioned that it was an expensive book, and you
know a few people commented in the chat room. But this thing, anything
I know from experience from printing that anything you, print in color costs a
good deal of money, so this book was very expensive for you to actually
have published and printed. I don't expect to make any money maybe a buck
or two. In fact, that's not the intent of the book. The
intent of the book is to get the truth out there. Uh huh.
Wow. Good? And how's the response been so far? I saw it
had some really good reviews. Well, I just looked at Amazon and the
first five reviews are all five star. Yeah, yeah, that's great.
I'm going, in fact, I'm going over to my vacation home to meet
a guy from driving all the way up from Gatlinburg, Tennessee that wants to
talk to me about the book. Really, that's great. Wow. You
know, we've had a ton of questions come in, and I'm sure there'll
be plenty of the chat room as well. But we've had come in from
email from a forum from the forum, so well, I'm sure we're going
to get to them. But I had a couple of questions. I don't
really want to bore the listener who this to me is one of the iconic
cases, and we really don't have to go into the whole story of it.
There's plenty of information out there. If you're new to the show,
you can just check anything about Rendlsom Forrest is a ton of things on YouTube
and that TV shows that is nonsense. Yeah, that's kind of goes across
the board with anything, you know when it comes to what people put on
on YouTube. I think it does anyway. But so I would like to
ask you a couple of questions. Now maybe these have been asked before,
but just a couple of things I was thinking of that may not have been
asked, And I'd like to start right out with those some questions that I
put together for you. And that is after the incident. I understand that
you know, everybody was debriefed or interrogated or whatever you want to say.
But the thing that really puzzles me is why did they let you and Peniston
keep such strong evidence, such as the recording, Peniston's little notebook, the
plaster casts, and things like that. Why did they not want those things
handed over? I don't At number one, I don't think they knew about
the plaster casts. Keep in mind, Penniston's plaster cast disappeared. Maybe you
don't know the whole story all that, but one of them was put inside
a sealed, taped up box numbered inventoried and put inside a larger box put
inside a huge shipping crate which is clocked, concealed and nailed closed and shipped
to the States. When they opened up big box, guess what, the
cast was gone and the other cast disappeared. The only cast that still available
was the one he gave me, which I hid away. That's number one.
Now, I don't think anybody knew much about my tape. Yes,
the senior officers did, but they didn't think it would ever go to light.
My memo. There was no copy ever kept in the office. It
was typed on a select typewriter you probably remember those. That was before word
processors. We did have a carbon manifold which disappeared somewhere in the office.
So when Larry Fawcett and Barry Grinwood, the authors of Clear Intent, came
in initially and requested under freedom of information to get the copy of my memo,
we didn't have it. When I needed a copy, I had to
go on the internet. Would you believe that to get it and the tape
I kept the tape. I did not share it with anybody, but Ted
Conrad who was my boss at the time, asked me to make him a
copy. I realized now that that copy was given to General Gabriel. I
didn't know that. Two years later the British told me that. Would you
believe he put it back to the copy back in his desk grower. It's
on a little micro cassette and Sam Morgan found it. Sam Morgan and I
weren't exactly on the same frequency. That's put it that way, and Sam
fought was funny. So he started playing into cocktail parties and somebody told somebody,
who told somebody, and Harry Harris, the UFO investigator and a lawyer
so to speak, from Manchester, managed to get his hands on it and
sold it for a small fortune. So the tape got out, My memo
got out, and what can I say? Oh, I didn't tell you
how the memo got out. The memo was sent to the mod through Don
Morland. Don Morland kept a copy and unbeknownst to me, he sent a
copy to the liaison officer, his boss at Third Air Force. He put
it in a file. Well. When Larry Fawcett and Barry Greenwood came in
to Bentwaters and we said we didn't have anything, which we didn't. They
went to Third Air Force and my good friend Pete Bent, who was in
the Third Air Force commander, talked to the RAF and they said, oh,
we have a copy in our files. So he called me and he
said, hey, Chuck, because we were friends, I'm going to have
to release your memo. I said, no way, burn it. Your
life and mine will never be the same. I didn't want all the publicity.
It was not career enhancing. He said, I've got to release and
I said, no, you don't. He released it well after that,
a day or two later after it hit the States, BBC one, BBC
two, ITV, German TV, Japanese TV radio, Warwell, on and
on and on. We're all on my doorstepped. Wow, I had to
go into hiding. I was furious. I bet well. Let me let
me ask you this question, kind of following that line, if this had
not come out in that way, or that you know what Larry Warren did,
if it did not come out publicly, would you do you think,
knowing your personality, do you think eventually that you would have talked about it
or would you have just kept this thing to yourself? Your whole life.
I just would not have talked about it anymore. Really, Wow, I
had no intent. I did not want the publicity. I didn't need it.
I have my own life, you know, I knew what would happen,
right, right, So what has it changed? Obviously we can see
that it's definitely changed things in your life. But what are some things that
it's changed in your life besides you just you know, writing a book and
things like that and speaking at conferences. Well, what I try and do.
And John Burrows and Jim Penison have retal problems, and we can talk
about that later, but I put it on the shelf. I don't even
deal with the daily. I don't pay any attention to it. In fact,
I wasn't even going to do the book until I was pushed into it
by Well. We can talk about that a little later too. No,
it hasn't affected me much other than I've gone to a few conferences and I've
talked a few times a few people such as you, just to get the
truth out. It's important. Uh huh. Yes, And I don't know
you were listening to the news earlier, and I mentioned that when I listened
to you in North Carolina, I really felt like I was hearing the truth
and I really appreciate that now. Being a base commander in general, you
must have a terrific amount of pressure on you, and especially a base like
RAF Bentwaters. And I know it's classified. You can't talk about if there
was or was not nuclear arms there, but whatever you had your hands full.
Was that a real high pressure job to begin with? Well, let's
put it in perspective. That was the largest tactical fighter wing in the free
world. Two geographically separated bases in England, succes fols for active to stand
by and fourteen thousand people. You know, it's a small city. Yeah.
I worried about paving the runway, paving the roads. I worried about
security of the fence. I worried, you know, I had a confrontation
with a motorcycle gang, on and on and on you name it. Wow.
Yeah, so you But your day to day life, I'm sure was
full of uh was very busy, I bet especially. I never realized there
was that many people involved. Amazing, My day never stopped right. So
you had to make a lot of decisions, you had to direct people.
And when you first heard about this happening on the twenty sixth or twenty seventh,
whenever, it was the night of the twenty fifth, the morning of
the twenty sixth, and you just at that time, did you just think
it was a bunch of bologney or did you No, I didn't think it
was blooney because I knew some of the people involved. But I thought there
had to be a logical explanation, and I just, I won't say I
brushed it off, but I didn't pay a lot of attention to it.
I picked up the blotters and I took them up to the office, and
and then that was a Monday morning, as I remember, we had a
staff meeting and the senior officers all read the blotter and they kind of chuckled,
and I said, yeah, something happened out there. We don't know
what it was, but I'm not concerned. Then I realized, as a
day wore on, et cetera, that all the cops were looking to the
sky, and you know, the cops went crazy over this. Wow.
Now, did you feel like ahead of time before this ever happened. Let
me rephrase that, before this ever happened, did you ever think about the
UFO topic at all or was it just something so far removed from your your
daily life that you didn't think about it. Well, let me explain.
When I was about thirteen or fourteen, our church had a big rummage sale.
You know what that is, sort of like a big garage sale.
Everybody in a church puts stuff up, brings all the stuff, you know,
everything from paintings to you name it. And I got tasked by my
mother to help unload vehicles and put stuff out sort of things. Big box
of books came in and I was an avid reader, and it was a
book in their by Donald Keihoe. You've probably heard of the book ye a
classic, along another book or two, and so for about twenty cents,
I bought two or three books, including that one. I read it and
I thought that's very interesting. I forgot all about it. I never gave
another thought the UFOs or anything of that nature until what happened at Ben Waters.
I don't even remember reading about the Battle of La I don't remember reading
about the stuff over DC. I certainly remember the Korean War, but I
don't remember anything it didn't pay any attention to it all. Wow. Yeah,
and then it just got shown right in your face. One question I
think I heard you talk about it one time is when you came out and
publicly, when you actually spoke about it yourself. You know, you heard
everyone else talking about it, And I do want to talk about the kind
of convoluted controversy among the witnesses. But before that, was there ever any
type of threatening feeling or any type of blatant threats to you about it?
None? Whatsoever. But I have to say, very early on when I
started, I actually was trying to work with Faucett and Barry Greenwood, and
when they finished crash their intent and were ready to start another book, and
they were working with Larry Warren till they found out he was a fraud.
So anyhow, I even signed an agreement. But the agreement was they would
stick entirely to the truth, entirely to facts. Well, they gave up,
but I did give them, you know, a good listen, and
I sat down, I made a tape of everything I knew, and I
think Barry Greenwood probably still has it, and I have several copies that,
how shall I say, have been put away in separate places. Uh huh.
Now, speaking of the recording, going back to the recording we talked
about earlier. That there's a little bits and pieces, and then there's the
twenty one minute version I listened to that someone posted on YouTube, and in
that it has you in the forest and you're looking at the scarred trees.
You're taking radio you know, one am I trying to forget great readings with
the seven right? And then there's the star what is that called the star?
That starlight scope? Actually night vision scope it's first. And then you
were looking at and there was some like heat or some type of heat.
Still well, I don't know, I just said heat. I didn't know.
I see there was something that illuminated when you look through them if you
ever look through a night vision scope, the original version, some of the
new ones much better. Everything is greenish yellow. There was some some brighter
stuff. I see. So you were getting readings on the inside. It
sounded like in your conversation you were getting readings on the inside of where the
indentations were in the soil. Now who ended up bringing you out to that
very spot where that where Peniston here's England came and retrieved me from we were
having the year end. We called it the Christmas party, year end party.
It was a family affair cover dish dinner on Woodbridge Base at the Woody
Bar, which is a very classic place. That's where twelve o'clock High was
partly filmed. And he came in and said it's back, and you know,
I almost went in shock. What's back? He said, the UFO's
back. I said, oh, I'm on, Bruce. He said,
no, there's something in the forest we can't explain. So Conrad had to
give a speech and make some awards and presentations and thank some people. So
he said, go put this to rest. That's how I got involved.
I see yeah, Now, but did you you actually went to the very
site where the craft supposedly had landed the day before. That's where Bruce took
me. I see, okay, and when did you actually? I also
took a soil sample. Now, an interesting thing is I had some a
British friend three or four days later come out and he also took a soil
sample and had an analyzed, which I had mine analyzed later, but we
can talk about that. And he said, oh, I know how this
happened. There's traces of calcium carbonate there. I said, yes, Peniston
made plaster casts, so obviously there'll be some calcium carbonate there, so I
knew I was where he took the casts. I see, okay, And
is that the vantage point from where you saw the object that looked like the
eyeball? Yes, so right from there and today from there, that's when
we first saw it. Yeah, And of course we moved to trying to
get closer to it. After it came and came into the forest, we
watched it, it went back ont into the field, we watched it.
We went up to the the edge of the fence, which there was at
the edge of the forest, and there's a farmer's field out there then,
and the farmer's house was beyond. Uh huh. And is that when the
is that when all the farm animals became quiet or they were real quiet them
when we went out into the field. And so I've been trying I've heard
you talk about this thing that looked like an eyeball, and it's really intriguing
because I also heard at one point that from the weapons area with a twelve
magnified binocular set of binoculars, it looked triangular. And so that's what Jim
Peniston also described. But This thing defied everything else it had like it looked
looked like molten dripping off of it. That's the best way I can describe
it. And I mean worked in the steel mill when I was in college
and watch them poor you know, stuff from the Crucible. M But you
know what the people in the U weapons storage area described was much larger and
up over them, not toward the coast more. WHI Jim Peniston saw was
nine feet approximately on the side and was on the ground till it levitated and
did whatever. Yeah, yeah, And did this thing like move like in
a steady line or did it move up and down or zig zagg or it
came straight toward us into the forest, and when it went into the forest,
it moved up and down and in other words, avoiding the trees like
it was under intelligent control. Wow. As far as I could termine,
it did not hit any tree. Wow. Now the forest was Corsica pines.
They were about twelve fourteen sixteen inches diameter and one hundred and fifty two
hundred or more feet high and with a heavy canopy overhead and very few lower
branches because they can shut off a light. Now, but the other craft
apparently when it exited the landing area, it actually bumped into the trees.
Right there was some branches and some scuffs on the trees. Well, I
don't know that for a fact. There were some branches on the ground,
and when you looked up her head, there was an equivalent of a hole,
so to speak, in the tree canopy right now. When you and
I met in North Carolina, I told you the story that a friend of
mine had when he was watching this UFO and his The one he saw was
in the shape of a box. He said, it was just square like
a box. And then it burst into five lights. And you said,
oh, my god, that's exactly the number that this thing, the eyeball
thing burst into the eyeball did it? It just sort of like a fireworks
display, But it did it silently? And did my friend that saw had
the sighting I just mentioned, said that these five lights they made like a
formation and blinked and things like that. Did the five lights that you saw
just disappear or did they do so? They exploded? They were not in
twenty thirty feet or something, I can't remember exactly how far, and they
just disappeared. They were gone, wow, And so that's when I said,
let's go out into the field and see if we can find some residue
or some burn marks on the ground or something from whatever was dripping off the
object. We saw, and we found nothing except you know, cow pies.
Is that must be? I mean, what were you thinking? I
mean, how could this happen when I was thinking I didn't want to be
there? And how did they ever get involved in this? Nobody's going to
believe this, this didn't happen. How can I get out of this now?
Yeah? I bet? I bet? Yeah. I mean to see
this thing like bursts and then totally disappear. I mean, this kind of
just defies everything that you can possibly think of, you know what I mean.
When I first thought was ball lightning or something like that, but when
it exploded, ball lightning doesn't do that, right. And someone else mentioned
that this thing looked almost like I had a pupil it did? I said
that it had a dark center? Yeah? Wow? And what were the
colors? It was a readish orange. It's very glowing, just like a
fire. Yeah. And we could see it clearly at that time. The
farmer's house, which was directly across the field from us, and it was
in between us. Now there's a large hedge, but there was low hedges
and first and second four windows on this side, the side towards us were
flickering brightly, and I was thinking, Wow, I wonder if this is
affecting those people in the house. I was concerned for them. Oh yeah,
and we're there were some other There were some civilian witnesses right that came
forward eventually, not right there with us, Uh huh. There were some
came forward later that saw things from you know, different vantage points. Right
right now, going and changing a little bit here. I do want to
talk more about the sighting, But one of the things that always seems to
be talked about is why is there so much controversy between all the witnesses,
not all of them, but the witnesses that actually speak about this. Well,
the biggest thing is the book left at the East Gate. It's the
biggest choke. I'll tell you what. It's the biggest fraud it's ever been
worked on the UFO community. And I can go through the book and give
you fifty examples with the impossible nonsense you know, didn't happen. Okay,
would you like me to do that you certainly can. I just one of
the things I wanted to ask you, did either Peter or Larry when they
were writing that book? Were they in touch with you and ask you questions?
Multiple times? And I kept telling Peter, Peter, you're on a
dying horse, riding at the death. I didn't think Larry was there.
There's a remote possibility he was very far in the background. But he's admitted
on multiple occasions the into Moltonhowe, Sally Rail to Barry Greenwood and on and
on on that he took somebody else's story which is not entirely correct, and
he made a big issue out of it. Now there's Steve. I want
to say. His name is long Longwood. Have you read that interview because
he Longaro I have. Let me tell you. I talked to his supervisor.
I talked to other people. Nobody saw him out there. His supervisor
said he was on duty in the Charlie area. If he left his post
and was out there, he had to climb over the fence or drive two
or three miles around to get there. Nobody saw him out there. Nobody
knows anything about it, and he has the first night and the third night
mixed up. He was not on duty the third night when I was out
there, and he says the first night he saw me. Well, I
was not there the first night. And there's more. I mean. Now,
I'm not saying he's a liar. I'm saying his probably time has taken
his toll on his memory. Maybe, but he had probably heard a bit
on the radio, the cop radio. That's the only thing I can think.
I have no idea, but I can tell you he was not there.
Someone just wrote me today and said they thought this story was very weak.
That's how they put it, Steve Longero's story. Now, the question
is the real story is what happened. But there's a very good story what
happened afterwards, to all the people and all these spooks that were involved,
and all the different funny things that have happened through the years, the different
people, especially they're bentwaters, and I could go in a great detail on
that. I have three or four file cabinets posts. I've saved every email
for thirty five years, all the newspaper clippings. I've been able to put
things together, if you know what I mean, And every time someone comes
out, I can go back and put fit it in and there's just so
much nonsense out there. I'll tell you what the spooks were heavily involved.
I have the picture and the name of the CIA cleanup doctor who was on
the base within days, the one who worked on the people with their debriefing.
Mmmmm, all right, how about that? Well I verified his name
with multiple very how shall I say, people, reputable people who are in
the UFO field that know what's going on. They said, oh, that's
the guy they normally sent in to clean things up. Okay, So you
were starting to tell us about there were some examples in the book Left It
east Gate? Did I say that right? Yeah? Yeah, So you
wanted to talk a little bit about that, and go ahead, Well,
you want to talk about the pictures of the book first, sure, okay,
okay. If you turn to the pictures in the middle of the book,
there's a picture that shows the entry to the base of the community.
Side, it shows a sign that says alert condition, but there's a bunker
in front of it that cuts off the bottom says all clear. If there
were an alert, there'd be a copy in black vest, helmet, et
cetera. Standing at the gate. Down there's a picture that shows an underground
facility that it infers there mayst be something there with fence. Guess what it
is. It's a fuel bladder. It has earth on top of it to
protect it to keep it cool, and also a blast protection. There's a
picture what's called the Base photo Lab where supposedly Larry was taken underground down an
elevator to a place the size of the astrodome. It's a command post.
The command post is a reinforced still concrete building with blast walls around. It
sits on three or four feet of concrete. It does have an emergency escape
patch, which people now say, oh, there's a secret tunnel going somewhere.
It's nothing but a door that goes on under the wall, and it
was never used in exercises or anything. In fact, the only reason I
knew about it is because my next door neighbor was one of the EYAK that's
the emergency action officer or the guys that men to command post round o'clock said.
I said to him one time, what happens if that big bank vault
like door ever got jammed with a nuclear explosion or something. He says,
Oh, there's a hatch over there. In what do you call it?
The computer room that we can all crawl out through, but we have to
break through the dirt to get out. But we can get out if we
have to. The command post is, now guess what a museum. I
would invite anybody to go there. Now, I'll tell you a little more.
The base on the airfield side where the command post is was bought by
my friend Bill Kimball and Jeannie, their personal friends of mine. Their son
John and Sarah run Bentwaters Park. People will be welcome to go there and
talk to them and say, where's the big underground facility? Guess what?
And I can go on and on and on. I mean, for instance,
on page thirty two it says there was a helping hand, which is
a very serious an event. There was no helping and shots bullets, shots
were fired at ay tens. Guess what if that happened there had been a
response like you can't believe. And I can just go on and on and
on and on. Now when did the base close nineteen? It's so oh
gosh, I can't remember the exact date. About six or seven, eight
years ago, Okay, much later. So it is the area open to
the public like or is it fenced invitation and when the museums opened. Yes,
I was there last year and took a tour of the base again with
some of the people. Like I say, I know the people that owned
the airfield because we had what was called an Angro American committee when I was
there, the senior officers on the base and all the high Shariff, all
the wealthy people around, the chairman of the county council. We had regular
social events. In fact, we would meet occasional at Bill Kimball's house.
So there is nothing there. There is a partly below ground conference room under
the OSI building. The Intel building had a partial underground storage building, and
there is a building across the far side of the base that was built later
that may have an underground storage facility. And we're talking something the size of
a house or less. There is no astrodome size thing with elevators, et
cetera, et cetera. All the nonsense about the nonsense about being picked up
by Chinese looking guys driving a limousine and gas and going onto the the airfield
side of the base, let me tell you something. If somebody came with
a limousine on the base. We all knew it, the senior officers,
all the cops, because they were bored to death at the gate. And
he would never have gotten onto the airfield side of the base with a plate
New York City plate on the car. Gosh, now, let me ask
you so much, how many people would you say? In and both occurrences
in total actually witnessed something. The first night, the only people that witnessed
anything probably were the three people Burrows, Peniston and Cabanasack that went out the
rest of the gate didn't see much of anything except perhaps lights from a distance.
The second night, Bobby Ball and what's her name, Lieutenant, I've
forgotten her name now, Bonnie Tamplin were probably the only ones, although somebody
else may have been there too. The third night, when I went out
with Bruce England, there were four people with me, five of us total.
There were probably fifteen cops, maybe sixteen or seventeen, including John Burrows,
who hitchhiked the ride out there available or there, but they were told
to stay back where the vehicles were on the Forest Service road. They did
not come into the forest until the five of us returned. I sent everybody
back to the base. Was still one or two copp vehicles there with a
couple of light alls and Burrows said to me, I want to go forward
and look again. I said, okay, but make it quick. And
Bastenza, who was with me the whole time, I mean, he hugged
me so tight he could have kissed me. He was frightened to death.
He and Pastenza went forward to where the supposed landing site was and came back
and I don't know, five minutes or less, because it was only one
hundred yards and we could see them, and we all went back to the
base and that was it. Now how many people in WSA, I don't
know. There were multiple people out there. Some people went up in the
tire, some people were on the ground on the bunker. So I can't
tell exactly how many. Less than twenty years, twenty five at the most,
not not even that many. Probably now are there some people that refused
to speak about it at all that you remembers. Singlem won't talk about it
anymore. Bastenza doesn't want to talk. I really feel for Bestenza. He
was worked on something happened to him in indeed briefing, because he talked about
underground facilities and all kinds of things. He never left my side until he
went back with Burrows for about five minutes. Now, so he was messed
with, and so were other people and Larry. So were other people,
including Larry Warren, because Larry Warren was running around the base with his hair
on fire. Larry Warren in the book says he was in Germany. His
girlfriend says that's not true. He was in the dorm drinking with us in
a dorm bar. Somebody set up in their room and was very furious that
he wasn't involved. Then big evidence that Peter Robbins says is that boy he
wrote a letter OF's mom. Read the letter. It says some guys saw
a UFO. It doesn't say I was out there and this happened. Oh
wow, so hmm, well, well interesting and so they were worked on
and they mind if you go do your little research, go to Nick Pope's
website. THEOSI has a document, so it's the CIA. They are allowed
to use hypnosis. There's a list of four hundred or five hundred drugs that
they're allowed to use, everything from sunny emerald sodium, pentathon lste the stuff
I've never heard of before and there's the procedures. Here's how you get permission
to hypnotize somebody when you need to do it. Would you believe that?
And they they did this in hopes that people just wouldn't talk about it.
Is that right? I think what they were doing is putting up a smoke
screen disinformation, which they're skilled at. Believe me, there's the whole science
of that. I know a lot more about that than I can talk about.
But yes, so when it came out, if it came out that
everybody would say, oh, little green men, this and that and the
next thing, oh hau hau. Well yeah, and boy, I just
it just bothers me to hear this. And I know that John Burrows he
scratched the surface. You have no idea. Yeah, And John Burrows is
actually getting some compensation for what he is relating to some health issues. Read
my book a copy of my letter and Gordon Williams's letters in there. And
he also got some help from the CIA. By by the way, now
what now is what John's heart problem? Is that related to the event.
I don't know. It could be. I have no idea. I'm not
a doctor. Jim Pennison has some medical problems I understand be stenza does I
don't know. I can't tell you. Yeah, Jim, I've invited on
this show and he keeps saying he's going to be on eventually. I'm not
sure if he will or not. You know, one of the things I
question about him, and a lot of people a couple of questions came in
about that, is he seems like a good guy and all that, but
this this download that he supposedly uh received it. You know, I kind
of question that, I'll put it that way, and well, I'd better
not comment on that because I have no knowledge of it. Yeah, yeah,
and he is, uh you from what I understand from the past things
that you said, you kind of go along the line where you think it
it's most likely or it does make sense that this could be extraterrestrial. And
he thinks it's time travel, and I think it's exterrestrial, and I think
they're here. Uh huh, Yeah, I do too. That's why I
do the show for you. Yeah. So someone you just mentioned disinformation and
that fascinates me because there seems to be so much of that in this uh
when it comes to UFOs. So how would disinformation uh up in this case,
it muddy the water. Now, let me tell you something happened in
the last when we started working on the book and got pretty serious and turn
the end of the book, Larry Warren's girlfriend from that timeframe came forward and
she, amongst other things, says when Larry wasn't there for starters. But
that's one thing. The other thing she says is she was used, as
they say, what do you want to call it, a snitch, an
undercover or whatever for the OSI, and they took her in, they drugged
her, and they hypnotized her. In fact, she've used the term they
called her Bambie eyes, which kind of indicates maybe she knows what she's talking
about. Then she says she was out in the forest all three nights.
Nonsense, and she remembers seeing me and getting me a ride back. Nonsense.
Warzon. There's so much stuff coming from you know, that's way out
there. Wow, I see, And so this is all an attempt just
to make the whole thing screwy. Basically, Yes, in the news,
I'm sure you heard Alejandro mention that someone claims they saw you at the hospital
the day after or something like that, and that was that's another thing.
The only time I remember going over there was a talk to a hospital commander
on official business from time to time, and I did we have a problem
with my wrist or my carpal tunnel on mine and whenever, and got a
what do you call it a brace to put on my arm for a while.
I don't ever remember going to the clinic for anything other than a routine
shot or something. Uh huh, Okay, let's see. There is a
question in the in the in the forum, and by the way, if
you're listening, you can join the forum and there's a lot of conversations UFO
sightings, things like that that people post that they've seen. But anyway,
you can also post questions for the guests that are upcoming. And this question
here says, with the benefit of hindsight, would you change anything that you
I did that night and the following from that night on if you go back
in time, I wouldn't have gone number one, number two. I probably
wouldn't have shared my tape with Jordan Williams. Oh yeah. But the problem
was he heard me on the radio because he never turned his radio off.
I don't think he even turned off at night. Because his comment to me
when I ran into him. The next morning. See, after the incident,
I went home, I couldn't sleep, I took a shier, I
had something to eat. I went into the office and we shared a building
with him. He was on the one side and we were on the other
side. And as I was going into building, he came in and he
made a comment something like that, that must have been some experience last night.
And I said, yeah, Boss, I said, and I made
a tape. He said, let me hear it. And I played the
tape for him and he said, let me have it. So he took
my tape and the recorder. I said, what are you going to do?
He said, well, we have a staff meeting and I knew it.
Third Air Force, which was all the commanders in England, got together
with the Third Air Force commander every Wednesday morning. He said, I'm going
to play for General Baisley, the commander. Well, I worried. That
was Monday. I worried till he came back on Wednesday. And I was
waiting for him when he came in the door and I said, why do
I still have a job, boss, And he threw me the tape and
laugh I said, well what happened? He said, Well, I played
it for General and the staff and everybody was quiet, and he said,
I said, well what happened? He said, well, the General turned
to the staff. He says, what do we do? And nobody said
anything. So the General, in his infinite wisdom, said, well it
happened off the base. It's a British affair. Case closed. Wow.
Yeah, well I thought that was a pretty good response. That's what I
would probably said if i'd have thought about it a general. So I couldn't
do anything with it because dahn Moreland was on holiday in Wales. That was
his home. He'd gone up there for the Christmas holiday. By the way,
the book says he was hut in the field with me. Nonsense.
But anyhow, I left the these gates says that he came back about eight
or ten days later. That's why my memo is dated much later. And
I said, what do you want to do and he said, well,
I don't know. So he made some phone calls and he says, well,
do me a memo or something. So I wrote the memo. It
was typed in the office. Conrad read it. My boss. He took
it found at Gordon Williams's office, okay, came back, gave it to
me, said okay, So I gave it to Don Morland. Never thought
any more about it. Well, I find out later, not too long
ago, that the CIA had it almost immediately. We'll guess where they got
it from. Gordon Williams or his office. His exec didn't know anything about
it, because I know him personally, and he said to me, well,
tell me about this. I don't know aning about it. So guess
what. Well, So when these when who would be the agency or what
part of the Air Force or whatever interrogated did the witnesses or to brief them
so to speak. Well, the OSI didn't do it. They facilitated it.
It happened in their facility. Keep in mind, a day or two
later Chuck Matthews, who was the OSI commander and a good personal friend.
I said to him, do you have any interest in this? I thought
they would be all excited and interested in him. He said, no,
we don't do this sort of stuff. We're not interested at all. What
a lie, So you know, I thought, okay. Then I found
out that anis well or ncis or whatever the term was, and then I
forgot I think it was NIS. Then Naval Intelligence has responsibility for Great Britain
as far as intelligence and spook stuff. They were the worlds divided up amongst
the various service Army, Navy, air Force, et cetera. And the
Navy had the UK. So when some of the guys say some naval officer
was there and did things in guys in civilian clothes, it was probably a
naval officer who worked with their for the andis CIA or ansay or who knows
who. There's so many spook agencies they all fight amongst themselves, but we
do know that the CIA was there, and we do know that the doctor
was there that administered whatever they did. M Now, why do you do
you think the reason for I guess you would call it the cover up would
be for reasons of national security. What else would it be if it was?
This is beyond the government. Let me tell you, you know,
everybody got all excited I when Hillary Clinton looked like she was going to be
elected because John Podosa is going to push her and they're going to release all
the government files. There are no government files to release. The agencies collect
stuff, forward stuff, fight amongst themselves, but there is a how shall
I say, offshore, not necessarily out of the country, agency, civilian,
contracted. However, I would look at some people, well, I
guess see as they say, I see big low industries, Lockey and on
and on and on, and perhaps some retired senior executives and military whatever,
a small group loosely put together that records are impossible to get to, that
are managing this whole thing. So if you don't believe me, talk to
some people like John Allen Sanders, who's done extensive research. Yeah, Now,
how do these things get do they not get passed down? Like let's
just go all the way back to Roswell. That's always been a question like
if someone some part of the government government knew what was happening, or at
least knew that there was a crash and all that, and does this generationally
go to another person the information or does it just like get tucked away and
sort of die out. I have no idea. You're talking something that's way
beyond anything that you know that most of us will ever have access to.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's interesting to think about how, you know,
how this just gets swept under the rug and then and protected and you know,
I would think some of it, of course, would have to do
with national security when it comes to you know, the weaponry at the base
and just the fact that something invaded the sky that couldn't be controlled. Now,
uh, speaking of that, when this beam of light came down,
I know you mentioned that on the tape, but it kept you kept watching
this come down for another forty five minutes or something like that, I think
it was, but not that long. No, No, it was only
I'm guessing thirty seconds or less. No, but I mean this, the
the crafts were flying around and the beams are coming down. Oh yeah,
okay, yes, I see what you meane. Yeah, when that beam
actually came down near you, did that scare the heck out of you?
What? Certainly did? I had no idea? What you know? Is
this a weapon? Is a method of communication? This a warning? What
is this? Now? And I always went into shock. In fact,
I think it was Chuck DeCaro, you know who he is, the name
from my type analyzed boy stress analysis. He said, boy, you guys
went off the scale there a couple of times. Oh wow, So when
this this, uh yeah, I mean did you did you just stand there
or we like or did you. I just good there and not. I
didn't know what to do. When it kicked off. I was relieved,
I bet. And it came down like almost like a laser or something.
Right, It wasn't like a it didn't radiate. It was a straight theme.
Yeah, ten or twelve or so inches in diameter. Wow, amazing.
And it's so we saw similar beams from the one that was over Bentwater
space and the chatter on the police radio because we had three radios with us.
I was on the command net and I don't remember who one was on
the law enforcement one was on the security net of the cops. Wall was
on one, and Bruce Ingham was on the other. In fact, I
think be Stenza had one on too. And we could hear those guys over
there chatter and I'm making a lot of noise. Uh huh. What the
beam itself? I've heard people describe a beam coming down from a UFO that
actually it's kind of hard to describe. Actually had like an end. In
other words, it didn't go all the way to the ground. But this
thing just shone directly on the ground. It hit directly to the ground.
Yeah, and color, and I could see I could see the dirt party,
you know, dust particles in the air in it. Wow, Oh
boy, that would scare the heck out of me. Well it did,
yeah, absolutely wow. That's why I couldn't sleep when I went home.
I bet, I bet. And going back to the triangular craft that I
mentioned earlier, that people said they saw the crafts looked triangular, but you
they were too far away for you to distinguish that yourself. All the objects
in the sky, all I could see was a bright white light and illuminated
so bright. I couldn't you know, I couldn't pick on a definite I
couldn't say it was a square, rectangular or whatever. Yeah, and this
this thing, you know, you talked earlier about this thing, the eyeball
that blew up into five lights. And did anything else strange like that happen
or formations of the lights in the sky other than the objects we saw to
the north in the sky before that the object came overhead and sent on the
beam. We saw the objects that were elliptical with multi colored lights. That's
what I was calling. The command post said, call Eastern, the air
defense people and the air traffic control people and see what they see. And
they kept telling me nothing. Why I find out later they did. Yeah,
air traffic control people were on record. Now they didn't say anything then
for fear losing their job. Now there's some people are talking about that.
Retired people are talking about that. Now, are you familiar with that?
I know them. I've talked to them. Uh huh. And so they're
actually admitting that, you know, something actually happened. What they said the
air traffic control people was something went across their scope in like eight seconds.
The hundred and twenty miles across the scope, in other words, five thousand
or so miles an hour came back across their scope. And normally when something
goes on the scope, there's a blip blip, you know, when the
radar makes it sweep. They said, these things went straight line, straight
across the scope. Then the object came back again and they saw a glowing
orange red object from the control tire and they saw it go into the worse
where we were. Wow. Wow, now we've gone a record on that.
Uh huh. Now there's Sawn Robert Hastin's movie. Yes, someone asked
if you had watched that. Of course, I'm sure you have. I
was involved in it. Yes, I know all about it. Robert is
a good personal friend. In fact, I had lunch with him two days
ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's he's pretty solid. Uh,
tell me the facts, no nonsense, and he digs in right right.
Let's see, getting back to some of these questions, what do you think
is the motivation of those associated with the government or military who want to suppress
information about ben waters? We kind of covered that, but it's basically probably
a number of different things. He also wanted to know, Oh, how
was the elevated radiation enough to actually be considered evidence? Yes, but not
enough to be dangerous. In other words, I suppose if you ate some
of the soil there, you might have an issue, But to be in
the proximity, no, I was not concerned because I know enough about it.
I did take several physics courses in college, and I was very familiar
with disasterparentness. I've been through a couple of special schools, and I understood
the APN twenty seven. And yes, it was about eight to nine times
higher than background radiation. Background radiation you know you're always exposed to. But
it was enough that you could get readings. Now, keep in mind we
were there on the third night. What we were looking at was from the
first night. No, I don't know what was there and what the half
life was, so I can't tell you, but it was probably pretty strong
the first night. Now, I'm sure you heard in the I don't know
if you noticed it or not, but in the opening that I have in
the opening music clip I have for all my shows, it has Seth Shostak
from SETI is saying that he can explain what happened at Rendlstrom Forest that had
nothing to do with aliens at all. I don't know if you heard that
little clip, but I have met Seth and I spent time on a panel
with them. Let me tell you something. He's a big waste of money.
There's no sense of looking out there for something. It's here. I
try to tell him that, but he doesn't want to hear it because he
loses funding. Absolutely, Yes, I went, I went. I had
to go around with him on this show, which was one of my most
listened to shows. Actually, I have a good comment about him, A
closed mind. Yeah, yeah, you wonder how close it really is,
you know. I mean, there's a on my homepage there's a clip of
Carl Sagan a paper that he wrote back in nineteen sixty two where you know,
he thinks that we've been visited. You know, this was something that
he came out with. Eddie later either changed his mind or stopped talking about
or whatever. But it is interesting. I'm I think that you kind of
hit the nail on the head when you said, of course he lose funding,
so he can't really he can't really go along with that, you know.
I mean he's he's quite a talker. That's my job. Don't threaten
my job, right, So let's go into the debunking, because you know,
you must be so sick of people trying to say this whole thing was
the lighthouse. I mean, that's one of them. The lighthouse. I'm
very familiar. The lighthouse is on a Bodley village. It's actually it's on
Horford Nest. I used to go out there for dinner because there's two pubs
out there that have very good food, reasonable prices. It's a nice plan,
you know, a nice quaint place to go have a dinner sometime quietly.
I'm very familiar with the lighthouse. Now, all the cops may not
have been familiar with the lighthouse, I'll have to say that that's bobabbly true.
I was, In fact, I had a friend that lived in an
apartment out there. It just made it just must seem so ridiculous, ridiculous
to you to hear after everything you saw, the beams coming down to the
feet, the eyeball looking thing bouncing around, Peniston's story of actually seeing the
physical craft and touching it and all that, and for them to you know,
people just are saying it was a lighthouse and that's it. You know,
Well, I made a point. I found the lighthouse keeper, Keith
Siemens is his name, and his wife's name is mar Linda. I had
a drink or two with him, had a long conversation about the lighthouse.
He just laughed. He said, the lighthouse has three lenses, red,
green, and a clear white one. You know clear, he says,
the clear one shines to land. The red end green one or navigational lights.
And if you're a booter you'll know what that means, shine off to
sea. He said, there's no way you could have seen a red light
from the light us right, yeah, red right return, that's how I
remember, yeah, when you're navigating. Yeah, wow, yeah, Well
I'm not. I'm like I say, I'm not a boter, but I
do know that has significance and so and then you know they're saying, oh,
it bounced off the people's windows, you know, the farms nearby and
all that. But you know what I mean, they tell me something.
The lighthouse is not the sea. The farm house was in front of us,
The reflection from the object was off the windows on our side. The
lighthouse is on the other side, you know, a mile or two away.
Now, can is your attitude like you just can't even be bothered with
these people? Or do you actually wow? You know, Ian ridpaths to
want to push us a and I've met him. He and I sat down
a couple of times and talked, and there's no talking to him either.
Yeah, I'm firmly convince that somebody's gotten to them or paying them or whatever.
I have no idea or they're they're is just totally made up. And
it's the same thing I think with many different things. When someone's mind's made
up, there's no way of changing it. You know, they just have
their set ideas and that's it. And we can take a call if anyone
is listening out there and they'd like to give us a call. That number
is six h three nine six seven four three to zero. If you'd like
to ask Charles Halt a question. And so your your book, Let's get
back to that a little bit. So what is some of the work that
John actually put into this book himself. Now he's a retired police officer,
right, yeah, he is. Actually his son is still a police officer.
In fact, I was over last summer with my son and his sign
of arrange for my son and I to go down and visit ten Donny Street.
We actually got in and got up to the door and inside and talked
to people and talked to the cop. Of course, my time was impressed
with the cops are carrying glock seventeens or glock nineteens, I forgot what it
was. But John has done a lot of research. I mean, you
cannot believe the amount of research he's done. He has probably talked to half
the people in Great Britain. I swear he has hundreds and hundreds of cases
in the book of that area things happening really YEA Sizewell which is a nuclear
plant just north of Bentwaters. It's only a couple of miles away has as
many as one hundred sightings in a month. Oh my god. Wow.
Now the base obviously is not active anymore, so probably no sightings. Actually
the basis sort of active, Bill Kimball. They have activities there land yachts
and autocross and things like that. In a film World War two movies there,
it's an industrial park. He raises mushrooms in some of the shelters.
He had geese in some he had a Saudis Prince executive jet in and stuff
like that and storing carrots and whatever. But no, the base and also
at Woodbridge Base, the RAF is there now or excuse me, the British
Army and they have some helicopters and a small unit there, so there's a
little bit more security there, but the base is inactive. Yes, uh
huh. Now, getting back, this is a question that came up on
the chat room. So getting back to the beams of light coming down,
they they were reported to come down also in the weapons storage area. Now,
these these bunkers there are like really really reinforced, so there was no
damage or anything like that or anything reported. I I don't know that any
beam came down there, I said, in or near or you know,
beside whatever that's I got that because I was remember a mile or two away.
I got that from the chatter I heard on the radio. I see,
uh huh. I can tell you the bunkers are concrete bunkers. They're
earthen embanked. Yeah, so they could probably be there. They could probably
be bombed and not affect what's inside. Well, I have no idea,
but I can tell you they're pretty secure. And to get into that area
when we were active, but the only way you could have gotten into the
area is to ram your way in, was something very big and strong,
you know what I mean, some type of attract vehicle probably or drop in
by helicopter. But there were procedures that deal with all of that, and
we had a task force in there in the ATF Alert Fire Team facility of
eight or ten guys armed to the teeth with an armored vehicle. We had
patrols on the ground, we had a patrol in the tire. We had
a thirty and thirty, which means and within thirty minutes, thirty people armed
to the teeth with everything from machine guns that you name it, so wow,
and a backup possible force if necessary. So it was a pretty secure
area. It had a double chain link fence I think there was ten foot
high with razor tape on top, sensors in the ground, sensors on the
fence. Now, I have to tell you we did have some penetrations by
something strange, really on more than one. On more than one occasion,
something got inside, was actually banging on some of the doors and doing some
things and managed to get out with anybody you know catching them. Wow.
Now there was no video cameras obviously, No, there's no videos of that.
Yeah. Wow, there were multiple incidents like that there. That whole
area is very strange. There's some a lot of unexplained stuff happens there.
And a side note that's kind of funny is but the village which is just
up the street is the home of British witchcraft. Really not that that ties
into it, but I just think that's interesting. Well, now, someone
just to the south as if Bodsey, that's where some of the biggest experimental
radar was during World War Two, and a lot of funny things happened down
there, and orford Ness where the lighthouse is. It's where the British did
a lot of experimental stuff that they don't want to talk about, like nuclear
triggers and stuff like that. Mm hmm. So after it's fraught with unusual
things, right, Yeah, after these incidences happened, where there did things
go ongoing, like after say a few months down the way that did people
see other things? Yes, and they have to this day to this day
over and yeah, wow, even the guy had We had a problem in
the weapons storage area with the rabbits. Now you're going to laugh, but
the rabbits burrow and rabbits multiply like wow, and they made some of the
bunkers. The dirt on the bunkers looked like Swiss cheese. So we hired
mister Jolly to come in with an air rifle. And mister Jolly's job was
to commit at night with a couple of guards walking around with him when he
would shoot rabbit after rabbit after rabbit. And mister Jolly can tell you stories
about saying little green, little nut green, excuse me, little creatures wearing
long brown clothes like monks in the forest on more than one occasion. I
mean that's just one example. There's probably fifty one hundred more. Wow.
So this is like one of these areas that I've had a number of people
on the show talk about, areas where all these different things are happening.
But it seems to me, I mean, my first thought was that this
was happening, happening at the base because of what was there, you know,
the weapons and things like that. What is your general thought on why
you think it happens. I think that may have been part of an attraction,
But I think there's something else. There's some kind of an attraction there,
a portal there or something there. I don't know what it is.
Well, yeah, I didn't realize that with that many sightings that you're talking
about. Uh oh, it's a continual thing. Now. This seems to
me there's some people getting involved heavily involved in UFO Detection. There's Mark de'antonio
with his partner Don Trumble. There's also uh Leslie Kane is involved with a
bunch. He's no longer unless he's a good personal friend of mine. She's
no longer much involved. She's doing another thing now, Yeah, I know
she's uh she last time I spoke with her, she said she's writing a
book. It has nothing to do with UFOs, So maybe she's not.
Yeah, yeah, okay, well that's too bad because she she's a great
person to have involved in this. Like I say, I know her very
well. I've been up to stay with her and about Hopkins, and I
had a lot of dealings with them. So, but the UFO detection,
getting back to that, you would think that this area would be a place,
a prime area for someone to set up something to detect these things that
are going on there, I would suspect. So if I were to ask
this, you know, single out of sight, I would start that would
be a top of my list. But there probably many other places too that
I don't know about. Yeah, it's so puzzling because you know you mentioned
a portal. That's definitely one of the possibilities. Because it doesn't seem otherwise
to make any sense why something keeps happening in a certain area. To me,
it doesn't make any sense. You know, someone wanted to ask about
the air traffic controller. We already talked about that. But the there was
a claim of seeing a massive ship over the bunkers. Is that something you
heard about. One of the cops said he saw a large equivalent of I
guess the best way to describe as the mother Ship what I suspected what we
saw was something under intelligent control with probably you know, no intelligent life in
it, but some type of a mechanism that it was controlled. That's the
only thing I can think, because of the size and shape and what it
did, and the objects I saw in the sky, the way they moved
at such speed that you and I could never you know, they pulled fifteen,
twenty, thirty forty g's. There's no way, Wow, anybody intelligent
or you know or excuse me alive could handle that. Yeah. Absolutely,
turn into mush. I'm looking. There was somebody told seven g's. I
know what it's like. Your eyeballs go whip and your vision goes down to
a pinpoint if you keep that even with a g suit on right, right,
and I'm sure you get very absolutely. Oh you have no idea?
Yeah yeah, wow. Well okay, So what do you think this book
that you've written? What is you know, you say you really want to
get the truth out there. What are some of the things that you want
out there that perhaps there's some controversy about. Well, the biggest controversy is
the nonsense and left the the east gate. It's just so full of I
mean, it's unbelievable. They talk about cloudbusters. Have you read the book?
I have the book. I know that at one point I went through
it, but I don't think I read the whole thing. Wasn't there something
about beings in there as well? I don't remember about beams in there?
No beings three possible or something? Oh yeah, Oh supposedly. Gordon Williams,
my boss and Big Boss drove out there with a staff car down this
road that had ruts that you would have trouble with a four wheel drive.
He drove over a burm that would have to have a track vehicle, through
a barbed wire fence and drove out into the field to meet these things.
And Don Morland was with them. Well, Don Morland was in Wales.
Gordon Wins was a social event. If he had taken his staff car,
which was a Ford crime Victoria, we would have had it. He had
got part way down the road. We had had to send a wrecker out
and drag him back. So ridiculous. There were no beans out there,
unfortunately, that makes a great story. There was no craft that we saw
on the field. There was none. They talk about the soil samples,
while the sand was the sandy soil with the structure was changed. The farmer
had a brush fire and they said, well the grass is greener around the
edge. Guess what happens when you burn brush. One of the byproducts potassium.
Guess what potassium is. If he bought fertilizer lately read the bag that's
went the third ingredient on and on. I mean, it's the whole thing
is ludicrous. I don't know how else to say it right now. Have
you? Have you actually had conversations with Larry after the book came out.
Yes, a couple of times. I tried to tell him if tell the
truth, I tried to help them with a book. Yeah, yeah,
I threw up my hands right. And you may not be aware of all
his low and all his current problems now. And Peter is uh, you
know, really has basically a really big chunk of his life invested in this
year, has made a mistake. He's gotten on something he can't get off.
He's made his whole life on this thing, and now he has a
problem. Let's face it. They beat up Sally Rail who tried to write
a book with me years ago. They beat up Georgina Brunie. If you
know her, she wrote the book. You can't tell the people. They
beat up Nick Pope, they beat up me. It's all you know,
slammed by. How many people write books about other people's books. You know
what these two guys put p T. Barnum the shame talk about con artist.
Mister Warren is skilled and I hate to tell you, Peter's a good
speaker. Peter's a talented person, but he has nothing else to do.
This is his life. It's not my life. M hmm. Okay,
Well, I'm definitely going to get your book, and I wanted to.
I think I wrote you a note. I don't know, maybe three or
four weeks ago. Is it ever going to come out on Kindle? Have
you other plans in that happening? Yeah, here's the problem. John Hanson
published the book in England, so it's over there. I have a couple
of copies, but I you know, I don't have boxes on them like
most authors do here in the States, a publisher does this and then you
puts you on a circuit. You go here and you go there, and
you sell books and you do this. You do a promotional thing. It
isn't happening. Amazon has the book. Amazon will print it on demand.
I see they promised to put it on Kindle after the first of the year.
That's all I can say. But as I told you earlier, I
didn't write the book for everybody in the country to read. I didn't write
it to be a best seller. I wrote it for the serious people that
really care what's going on and want to know the truth. That's what the
book's for. Yeah, it's going to be a classic rested shirt. Uh
huh. Yeah. Okay, Now, if someone actually wanted to have a
signed book by you, can they can they arrange something like this? Well,
yeah, I don't come to open my mind in February outside any book
anybody brings in. But that's right. Yeah, and I'll see you there
as well some of that. Yeah, I'm going to be there, definitely.
I have a house you and I were talking before the show that I
feel like I have to babysit because it's just one of these problem houses.
I'm hoping I can leave it in the middle of February in the cold.
So anyway, someone wanted to know how the government deals with this type of
thing. Has it happened on other bases that you're aware of? Oh?
Yes, really wow. Let me tell you an interesting story. How I
did the first program, which was Unsolved Mysteries, back in nineteen ninety one.
I believe, I don't know if you ever saw the program. They
re rant it about twenty five or thirty times. I wish I'd made arrangements
to them to get some money from them and residuals, but then I didn't.
I just wanted the story out there. I was approaching I was still
on active duty. I was working for the Department of Defense Inspector General.
I ran the Inspection Directorate, which meant we'll oversea all services, all agencies,
and sadia, you name it. They called me from Unsolved Mysteries said
we'd like to do a program on bent Waters. What do you think?
I said, Oh, I don't know about that. So I went and
talked to the IG that I worked for, and I said, Derek,
I've been approached by Unsolved Mysteries to do a program on the Bentwaters incident.
He said, what's that sit on? So I sat down with him for
about an hour and I walked him through everything. I knew that I could
think of. He said, do it. This is the DODG, the
spector General. So I did the program. So obviously he didn't know anything
about it. When I left the military, because of my clearance, which
was beyond top secret, I got a specialty briefing by a team of people
and they said, you know, you can't talk about this, You can't
talk about that, and so on and so forth, signed here and so
on. And I said to them, well, what about bent Waters?
They said bent Waters? I said, yeah, there was a UFO incident
there and some month some very strange things and a lot of people have interest
in it. Can I talk about that? And they said sure, why
not. Guess what I did? Was that surprising to you? It seems
like it was. It was. The problem is people think the government is
a government, one coordinated agency, everybody works together, et cetera, et
cetera. Guess what, it's a whole bunch of dissimilar agencies. Whatever.
They compete for money, they compete for mission, they compete for attention,
they compete for everything. They share when it's appropriate, they share when they
want to. When they don't want to, they don't. They fight amongst
themselves all the time. That's a fact. I'm sure you understand that.
So what happens is all these agencies collect things and it goes somewhere. Where
does it go? These agencies do things they're told to do. You won't
find any documentation to speak of anywhere that you can get your hands on,
or you can use Foyer to get it won't be there. That's why I
kept I was joking. When I talked to John Podesta, I brief John
Podesta, and I tried to tell him, I don't care who you are,
if you're the president, You're not going to find on There's a very
interesting story which is well documented. When Bill Clinton first got elected, he
turned to Warren Hubble. You remember Warren Hubble got himself in a lot of
trouble, but he was he was chief of staff initially, and he said
to Warren when he got elected, I want to know two things. Who
killed Kennedy or a UFO is real? Guess what? He never got an
answer to either one, right right, I had to It's not going to
come out until it's deemed appropriate to come out. And when will that be.
I have a feeling we're beating groomed slowly for a release someday. You
think so, but I think the release the release will be more than a
shock. Yeah, well, there'd be a lot of explaining to do,
a lot of splaining to do. As they said, Now, I'm going
to ask you something you may and not have ever been asked. What is
uh since this happened to you, of course, that changed your way of
thinking in your life and everything. What is a sighting that you think is
really amazing other than Rendellsham. You know, I'm not a member of Euphon,
although I've gone to a couple of meetings to talk to them. I
don't subscribe to any of their publications. I've kept it on the shelf.
That's the easiest way to deal with it. So I really can't tell you.
I can say there's an awful lot of stuff out there. People send
me stuff all the time. I read and just put it in a file.
Yeah. I've been accused of everything from seeing the Second Coming of Christ
though hoots with the Devil to you name it. I've saved all those letters.
By the way, they make interesting reading. Oh people, some real
weird people out there, more strange ideas well. Obviously they can find you
too, so oh, yeah, you do have a website, of course,
but no, actually I don't. John has one. He put one
up, But you know, I don't have a I have a Facebook.
I didn't put anything on it. I don't want to be pestered. Yeah,
I've called legs that I dealt with in the military that have nothing to
do with UFOs to say, come on, I get on Facebook with us
and do this and do that. Said, no, I don't want,
you know, I don't want to be bothered all the time. I get
enough stuff email now, but that I can't keep track of. Yeah,
yeah, are there were there times over the years where you just did you
feel like someone else who we spoke about earlier that didn't want to talk about
it at all? Did you ever feel that way, like I don't want
to ever talk about this again. Well, I gave up on a book
really after trying to work one with Sally raiwan with Gary Hezel time. There's
a trip boy. I tell you, I don't believe his magazine. He
calls it the Truth Magazine. That's most ridiculous name for it. But anyhow,
yeah I did. I was going to just throw it all away,
but then John Hanson conned me into working with him on a book. Yeah,
yeah, and how about going forward? Do you think this is?
Is this going to be it for you? As far as the book goes,
I don't plan on doing anything else. Although I've come into some more
information that John's going to put in the book. There was something we didn't
want to put in air for fear of some legal reasons. I mean,
Larry WARN's got himself in a lot of trouble recently. I mean, it's
unbelievable. We even discovered some one of the photos, if not more in
the book or photoshopped. Yes, yeah, yeah, I saw exactly what
your I saw exactly what you're talking about. We have a call coming in.
Let's see if we can. Yeah, for some reason, it's not
letting me add the call. That's gonna put you on hold, and I
don't know how to yeh, it's gone already. That's too bad, because
I'd like to take a call, and it's unfortunate. So I'm sure you're
listening the caller that just called in. If you'd like to join the chat
room and just pose a question there, I'd be glad to be glad to
ask that. So Robert Hasting. You brought him up earlier. Does he
does he think this thing had to do with nukes? That's what the title
of his book is. Yeah, No, I mean, I mean Randalstrom
Forrest. Well, I think I answered your question. I said that's I
did a chapter in his book with him. Okay, yeah, I know
it's a sensitive subject to talk about that. You can't actually I believe you
can't even actually say one way or the other about that topic. I cannot
confirm or deny whatever was about waters, right right. You have to understand
and respect that. Please. Oh sure, yeah, I do, I
do. Okay. Someone just is trying to text me on okay, a
voice message. I can't get that right now. So okay, So what
part of the book do you think is like some any anything in there that's
other than what we've been talking about that is new that John added to the
Rendolsom Forest. Yeah, there's a there's about five pages in the back of
the book which have some interesting stuff. I mentioned earlier about Larry Warren's temporary
or whatever girlfriend at the time who came forward and she put a lot of
stuff in there, and a few other staff. We put all that stuff
in the book so people can read and make their own decision. And I
commented, So the book isn't just I saw this, I did this,
I did that. The book has all these incidents in it, oh gosh,
hundreds of them, a lot of color pictures, some are black and
white, comments from people. Then we put stuff in there that somebody said
this, somebody said that. I mean one of the locals said what we
saw was his manure wagon that caught on fire as he rode through the forest.
One of the cops, Kevin Condy, who I knew, who was
a trip in himself, says well, I took a police car out there
and put a red light on. Well, buddy, if you look a
police car enter, you'd never gotten it back. And then she had a
toad. Besides, what were you doing off the base? And you know,
it's all kinds of crazy stories out there about it. Everybody has.
It seems like a take on a thing. So we put that in a
book, read it, and then I comment on it. So you have
to read the whole book, if you know what I mean. You can't
just read a part of it. It doesn't read like a novel or you
know, I started here and went to there. So it has a whole
lot of stuff in it says a wealth of information, and there's more coming
out yet. So we're trying to decide how much more to put if we
ever revised the book. Oh, I see, you can revise it,
or you wouldn't be sending out an addenda to people that have already bought the
book. I don't know how John's going to do that. I leave that
to him. I'm not a writer and I'm not a publisher, Okay.
I just got unintentionally involved in an incident that caused a great dear fury.
Uh huh. Someone wanted to know what about the shadows moving around the craft
after people stopped walking? Are you familiar with that? No, I'm not,
okay, and speaking, I haven't heard that before. You mean the
first night. I suppose that's what he is meaning by the question speaking of
that, though when Peniston touched the craft, first of all, he may
be one of the only people's ever touched something possibly reached out purposely to touch
something that could possibly be extraterrestrial. I remember him saying it was warm to
touch and smooth like glass. That I think took a lot of courage to
do that. I would never do that anymore or something. Okay, I
don't think anybody sure what happened in the forest the first night. Mm hmm.
Have you read their their statements. I took statements from him after the
event occurred. They did not. Oh yeah, I have them. I
still have the original statements. They did not mention anything of that nature.
Really they know. He described the craft as being nine foot on a side,
triangular with lights, et cetera, et cetera. He never talked about
the symbols. He never talked about touching it. Cabanasak. Poor guy told
one person he didn't tell me. He didn't put in a statement. His
statement was, by the way, was coherced. I think they all were.
That he saw John being beamed up when the object went up off the
ground. How did that happen. I don't know what happened with him.
I'm not really sure, and I'm not sure they are. I'm not saying
Penison didn't touch the craft. What I'm saying is I'm not sure they know
what happened for sure, because whatever they confronted in the forest did something to
them, and then they were subjected to how shall I say, a debriefing
with drugs and hypnosis. Wow, so that can really mess you up that
much where you can have false memories like that. Oh yeah. In fact,
I had a long conversation when one time I was staying with Bun Hopkins,
you know Bun Hopkins, and Bud said the words he used were induced
in screen memories. We were talking about Warren. Isn't that something the craft
itself? Though he mentioned it seeing it and it was in your report.
You actually wrote that word. But when you spoke with him at first,
he didn't talk about that. No, no, no, he did that,
but he didn't tell me about touching, and he didn't tell me about
the symbols. And now I keep in mind they were debriefed before I got
to them. Oh okay, you mean and actually drugged and everything before you
actually yes. So. And it's interesting because some of the statements are typed
when you take an official statement by the police or the OSI or whenever you
do it in handwriting. Mm hmm. There's a good reason for that.
And what is that that is so that it's you know, an expert can
say that's his or her whatever writing. Oh okay, I see what you're
saying, yeah, okay, And we know that some of the states.
Most of the statements were typed when they brought them to me typed. The
only one in handwriting was John Burrows. The others were all typed. Guess
what, I think they were cleaned up, well, once they made up,
I think they were cleaned up. Yeah, but the story would probably
never have come up. A couple of things. And Larry Warne says he
was the whistleblower, He wasn't the original whistleblower. J. D. Ingles
was under the aka of Steve Roberts. He was set up and sent up
by mel Zickler, who was a squadron commander who was ted ties to the
OSI and perhaps other places, and told Brenda Butler's boyfriend in a bar he
was playing music that he got involved in it and whatnot. Brenda Butler got
involved, and next thing you know, Jenny Randalls and Dot Street were involved,
and they wrote the book Skycraft. You've probably heard of the book.
It'side of print now, I think. And I actually tried to help them
keep on track a little bit, but I got tired of them. They
got to be a nuisance pestering me all the time. I mean, they
kidnapped my teenage son at the time, and a lot of other stuff went
on. I had him physically removed from my house. They refused that they
came in and got the house and wouldn't leave. Oh yeah, it's it's
a very interesting story. Wow. Wow, Just a note here. I
just wanted to make sure that I said this to you. Someone wrote me
and they said that they would like to thank you and other personal other military
personnel for coming forward and talking about this story. So I just want to
do, you know, a public thank you to you for doing that.
Another question in the forum, do you think this event would have had more
media coverage if it occurred at a base in the US compared to Great Britain.
We can't answer that. I don't know. It didn't get any media
coverage there until later. Yeah, so actually what two years later? It
was two years later when the News of the World broke the story. In
fact, the senior editor, Keith Phoebe, came to me and wanted,
you know, the inside story, and I wasn't too excited about it,
and he said, well, I'll give you I think it was twenty thousand
pounds or something of a pretty significant amount of money. I said, well,
I you know, that's very tempting at all. And I thought about
it, and I said, gee, I could use that to pay my
daughter's education and all. And he said, well, i'll give you the
money, you give me the whole story. So I went and I said,
no, I can't do it. I've talked to the judge advocate who
was what was his name anyhow, and I said, well, can I
take the money and give it to the Air Force agents aside? And he
said you can't do that. So I told Keith Phoebe, I'm sorry,
I can't cooperate with you. Well, he managed to find some other people
to talk. When he came to the base, they called me from the
gate and said, Keith BB from News of the World is here. At
that time, News of the World was pretty significant. It was sort of
like the National Enquirer. And they said, then he wants your biography.
I saw, so I ran over to public affairs, which is across the
corridor across the parking lot and pulled my file which had my picture and my
biography in it, and he came in and I talked with him and we
said I said no way after talking to the judge. So he went over
there to find my file and he couldn't find my file, so he pulled
Gordon Williams file and he put his picture in the front page the News of
the World, which caused him some great grief. He still got promoted,
but I mean he became a laughing stock for a while amongst all the generals.
Yeah. Now, has anyone made any money off of this? You
know you said this guy was offering twenty pounds? Has Harry Harris sold my
sold my tape for small fortune? I've been paid expense money, you know,
enough to cover. In fact, I've lost money a couple of times,
going to a couple of conferences and whatnot and talking to just give a
speech. But gosh, have I made a lot of money? No?
Am I going to make a lot of money off the book? No?
I don't expect to make anything. In fact, the last time I went
back to England, which was two years ago, I went under the understanding
that they would just pay my expenses, in other words, my airfare and
my meals and pay for the hotel and any money made. The idea was
we would have it filmed. My presentation filmed and it will be sold and
all the proceeds would go to the Forest Service there, who desperately needed money
to improve that area. Well, the lady that filmed it, guess what
she did. She put her on the internet the next day and blew all
that. I was furious. That's one of the reasons I went, you
know, two reasons, to tell the truth and to make a little money
for the Forest service people because they put up with a lot of nonsense because
they get swam people coming in there. I bet, I bet, I
mean, I consider you know it said in the opening, you know,
I consider this, you know the It's one of the top cases and of
all time. I think, you know, I consider it. I've mentioned
that many times in the show, and oftentimes when I'm talking to a skeptic,
I bring up this particular case because I think, you know, there's
there's so much credibility to it when it comes to the military, and you
know, I remember Seth Shostak rebuttal to that was that it no one is
a better observer than you know. I mean, it doesn't it doesn't make
any difference, basically, is what he said, which I think is kind
of bolooney myself. Have you yourself since that time, since has happened?
Have you had any other sightings of any kind? None? None? What's
so of her? You don't want one either, do you? Not?
Particularly? But I have to tell you, I've had a lot of people
approach me to tell me some stories, and some of them are very credible
people that are pretty far out there. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that
happens it and you've probably had some kind of all the people that would not
want to talk to anyone else about it. Right. In fact, my
neighbor across the street, who has since moved, who was a very highly
respected doctor, told me a very interesting story that happened to him. He
said, but I've never told anybody else this, And he only did that
after I did the Unsolved Mysteries and he saw it. He said, I
have to tell you. I believe what you said. He said, let
me tell you what happened to me, and he told me. I said,
wow, And he's not the only one. Other, like I say,
other are very credible people and they don't advertise it and those cases.
Yeah. Yeah. Now, have you ever been like somewhere and someone recognized
you? Has that happened like walking A couple of times. Yeah, yeah,
a couple of times. Not very often. I keep a low profile.
I don't. I don't go around looking for public city, right right.
Yeah. Now, if I go to a conference somewhere and speaking,
obviously some people say hey and you don't want to talk about it and ask
me questions, which is it's very reasonable to be expected, right. But
no, if I go to the home depot or lows, or if I
go to you know, one of the department stores, or I go somewhere
to the gas station. I think maybe one oh one time my place in
West Virginia, the guy that put the propane tame a big pro Paine tank
because I use pro paanet heat along with wood. But the guy that installed
that recognized me. Oh, he knew the name, and you know,
he asked me a whole lot of questions and whatnot. But other than that,
no nobody bothers me. And that's fine. Yeah, I'm not looking
for that. Now. Do you stay in touch with a number of people
that were there, that that experienced that with you? From time to time,
John Burrows is after me for something. John's still looking for answers and
John's never going to get answers because there were only three of them out there,
and three of them, you know, and they don't know for sure
everything that happened. And he's just knocking. He's not going to get answers.
He keeps searching here and searching there. And I hate to tell him,
but you know, John, put it on. I've been telling him
for years, put it on a shelf. Get all with your life,
don't worry about it. Yeah, you're not going to get answers. Don't
get obsessed, which he is. Yeah, I think, uh, I
think that's kind of the truth for a lot of this field is you know,
I do this out of total interest. A question that came up that
I think could be kind of interesting. What does your family think about this?
People close to you think about the situation. Well, my wife is
just put up with it, but she's gone to it. No, I
don't talk about it every day or any day. Of course, a lot's
come out recently with the book, and you know, people and I get
going back and forth with John Hanson, trying to sort things out and whatnot,
and she probably gets a bit irritated that I spend all the time doing
that not all the time, but a lot of time doing that. And
no, but she's watched enough programs now and listened to a couple I've taken
to a couple of things I've done and listened to other people. But she's
convinced too there's something to it. And my kids are too, but they're
busy doing other things and I try not to get them involved. Uh,
were you? But I do remember you told me when we met in North
Carolina. You told me that your son was talking about the tape or something
being out on YouTube. He thought it was kind of cool or something like
that. Yeah, he just thought it was kind of funny, he said.
A couple of his friends say, is that your dad? Oh?
Yes, just just lost it off. Now, when you were you with
your wife at the time this happened, No, I sa asked away.
My first wife passed away. Oh gosh, twenty seven years ago. I
I'm sorry to hear that, Sorry to hear that. So now, the
reason I was asking that question is when you're in a situation like that and
you're were you actually ever told just the words you cannot talk about this?
Never? You were never told that. Never. The factor's kind of you
know, when I gave Don Morland a memo, I expected within days to
have somebody from the mod or whatever, you know, British come and say,
well, tell me more about what happened when we need to get involved
in this. And nothing happened. And nothing happened, and I kept asking
Don Morland, you know, doesn't anybody care, doesn't anybody interest? He
kept saying, I haven't heard anything. I haven't heard anything. It sort
of reminds me, are you familiar with the Beatle Bailey comic strip. Yes,
general half track goes out from the mailbox looking for letters from the Pentagon
and there's never any there. We never heard anything, nothing, And you
know, he just threw up his hands and he and I just said,
well, I guess there's no interest. Until obviously it hit the press and
then people started bugging, bugging an m D. You know. An interesting
thing is they've released most of them, not all their I say most of
their files. But there's a blank in there on Bentwaters. Yeah, I
remember hearing that is that's Nick Popos. Nick went back searching to try and
get all the details, and there is a big gap there that the files
went missing. Amazing now when after this happened, of say, within the
next few weeks, was there a lot of chatter like between everyone on you
said, there's fourteen thousand people that were involved in Is that a lot of
the rumors went around the base, and you know, everybody teach me about
it, really but no, But I have to tell you one thing.
I found a guy that was working in the call center communication center, and
he said, the night I was out there, he said, they were
overloaded with high priority calls going off the base, going off the base,
so people were actually talking to the loved ones or whatever and telling them what
was going on. Now, I don't think it was the people talking to
their loved ones. I think it was senior staff communicating or some people from
certain agencies that were on the base that were communicating. But he said,
boy, the switchboard lit up for a while. Wow. Wow, that's
something I never heard before. That's amazing. So wow, Well this has
been Oh have you seen any of the Hunted ski Oh I'm sorry this of
course you have. You've probably read the Hunters called volumes. Yeah, yeah,
I understand. They're very good. Actually I have never read. They're
very detailed. I'm telling you there. You know, it's periods of time
nineteen forty to nineteen forty three or whatever, on and on and on and
on. I don't know how John ever finds time or the effort or the
money or whatever to do all that, but he certainly does. Did he
have any UFO sightings while he was a police officer, He's never told me
about it. If he has, uh huh. But he just had a
fascination with the topic he may have had. I'm trying to think maybe he
did mention something, but I don't. It didn't stick in my mind if
he did. Uh huh. Well, this has been very delightful. I've
really really enjoyed this. Always enjoy talking to you, and it's always good
to hear from right from the source. You know, you had a high
powerful position, and you know you had to deal with that, which must
have been, you know, in itself, very trying. I still have
the t shirt they gave me when I left. It says Chuck the UFO
colonel. My immediate staff gave it to me as a joke. I kept
it. Okay, So let's talk about where you can find the book.
All you need to do is go to Amazon and put the whole perspective in
and punch the button and put in your you know, your PayPal or whatever,
your credit card, and what they're doing they're printing it on demand,
so it takes about a week to ten days to get it, is what
I'm told. Yeah, I think that's a really smart idea to do something
like that, because you know a lot of people are stuck with hundreds of
books, cases and cases of them that you know, this does happen a
lot. But anyway, I told you, the intent is not to make
a best seller. The intent is to put a various book got there for
the serious people that are really interested in care and they will buy it.
That's right. And I know you have You're going to get some people buying
it from listening to the show, I know for sure. So thanks so
much, Chuck. Oh you're quite welcome with my pleasure, all right,
and I hope to talk to you. Well, I'll be seeing you in
February. See you then look forward to it, all right, you take
care it'll be warm here, sure, well, okay, for tell anybody
else attend and if they bring a book, I'll be happy to sign it,
all right, excellent, all right, thanks to talk to you later,
all right, take care, all right, bye bye, all right,
everyone, So thanks so much for listening to the show this evening.
I thought it was a great guest and interesting. That's to me. It's
one of the very best UFO sightings on record as far as I'm concerned.
And I was really happy to have Chuck on the show. And next week
we have Jason McClellan. He is going to be on. He was you
may remember him. He was with Alejandro Rojas on Open Minds. He's going
to be on next week. And again if if you tune in next week,
we're gonna I'm gonna do a drawing of a couple of prizes. One
of them is for a book I'm gonna get Charles Halt to sign. Another
one is for a stay at the uh guesthouse here on top of the mountain,
and we can do a little I have a not a I have like
a viewing platform overlooking the mountains at my house that we can do a SkyWatch.
Possibly that's something I never actually do by myself. But anyway, thanks
so much for listening, and we'll be back next week, and remember to
keep your eyes to the sky.