Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Today we are kicking
off four days in a row of talking about Avatar the Last Airbender, the
live action show on Netflix. All eight episodes have dropped, but we do
want to have some modicum of sanity, So instead of recording on all eight
episodes or doing something where we've spoiled everything already for ourselves, we're going to
watch two episodes at a time and then record each day. So today we're
recording on episodes one and two. If you've watched ahead, awesome, and
if you want to send us questions or feedback or thoughts that you want to
have us discussed about episodes we haven't talked about yet, please send those in
to Matthew Atthethicalpanda dot com and just make sure to label them episodes three,
episode five, whatever it is, so we know not to be spoiled.
We'll have more to say in a bit about other ways you can help be
part of the conversation, but let's just jump right into it, and I'll
start with you, Paul, episodes one and two. What'd you think?
Well? I turned the show off within ten minutes, okay, and then
I gritted my teeth and came back to it, and then I turned it
off again. Oh no, and then I used the Sikh bar to basically
be like, Okay, yeah, they're going to do that. Okay.
I skipped a chunk of the first episode okay, and then I picked it
up where the original series starts and watched the rest of episode one and then
all of episode two, and I thought there were some things that they did
really well. I think that they kind of completely missed the essence of the
original show in a way that is somewhere between heartbreaking and infuriating. To say
something good in all this, I think that Dallas Liu as Prince Zuko does
a fantastic job up with I think the scripts are very bad. I think
the dialogue is brutal, but I think a lot of the acting performances are
actually very good. Also. Ken Leung as Commander Choo, I think is
fantastic. And you know it's that's good because spoilers for you know, season
one of the original series, like, he's actually no okay yet, So
what we're actually gonna do this is I think a lot of people are probably
have already seen the animated show and we're going to be comparing the two the
whole way we go. But what we're gonna do is the first part of
the conversation, we'll try and just talk about what happens in episode one and
two, and then in a later section we'll talk about what we know having
seen all of Avatar, about what's happening in these episodes. Well, then
I'll just say that I think that Ken Leung brought a a lot of nuance
and like verve. I don't know exactly the best word, but just he
brought a lot to a role that I think. I think at this point
in the series, both Joao and Zuko are more interesting characters to me than
they were in the original series. So I would say those are the two
spots where I feel like it's really shined so far. It makes sense,
makes sense, Ricky, What about yourself? It was interesting for me listening
to Paul's reaction to the beginning, because I had maybe not as strong a
reaction, but a similar, oh, we're doing it this way reaction to
the opening. And so what we're talking about here is that it starts in
the past, like from the perspective of the main story one hundred years ago
with the comment that and the beginning of the Fire Nations war on the other
tribes, and we get we get Ang's like kind of full backstory in the
first I think like ten to fifteen minutes, and that is completely different from
how the animated show starts. And I questioned it, like, my reaction
is not as strongly negative, I think as Paul's, but I definitely wonder,
like how it's going to play out. And I often use the term
manipulative in terms of writing of television and movies, and to me, like,
I kind of felt manipulated, like emotionally manipulated by that opening, which
is not it is not necessarily a negative thing, but again, it's very
different from the animated show, and it sets a different tone I think is
the main thing. Yeah, I hear that. I hear that. I'm
kind of in a mixed place because I think I had a very similar reaction,
Paul to what you were talking about the first time, and kept thinking
to myself, this is not the show that I was looking for. And
then about two and a half hours later, while doing some other work,
I turned it on again and watched the first two episodes again kind of like
I've talked about with something like Mad Max, the most recent one, or
you know, other things like that. When I was looking to compare it
to the original, it fails and does not grasp so much of what I
love about the original. And we'll get into more specifics about that. We're
all kind of dancing around it, but I'm guessing we're on the same thing.
But then when I watched it again, I feel like I was able
to say to myself, Okay, they're going to tell a different story.
They're going to tell a story in which, among other things, a character
of Aang is fundamentally different. And I actually I asked myself, is that
a story I'm interested in hearing? And my end result was yeah, I
think that's an interesting story to hear them tell. But I do agree it's
going to be hard, because I think I went into this with fairly low
expectations of how close it would or wouldn't be to the original. But I
agree that that first, the first part of it was just I mean,
the whole thing was also just you know, I really missed what it was
about the original, and so let me let me see if the biggest thing
that I thought was different let me see if it's the same for you.
For me, and we talked about this for those who have heard it on
our out our primary episode. So much of what makes Aang the character he
is is that he is. And you know what, forget what I just
said, because we're gonna there's no way to have the conversation without spoiling stuff
that comes later. So if you haven't seen the animated show, we are
going to spoil you about that, at least in general terms. We'll try
to avoid too many specifics. I will say that I think what you're about
to talk about is not what bothered me so much about the beginning. Okay,
sounds good. Well for me, this is not just the beginning but
the whole two episode. Okay, what I came to love about the show,
and I admit I didn't love it as much, especially in the first
season. Ag is a child. He's an incredibly wise child. He's an
incredibly powerful child. But he is a child, and he is not,
as we first meet him, trauma stricken. He is joyful. He is
able to take joy in small things, and you know, he gets rescued
and people want to talk to him about the war and one of the first
things he wants to do is go penguins ledting, and and it is kind
of the spoiler part we come to realize that he is deeply traumatized. It's
just that one of the things he's he is still the kid who loves doing
those things, but also on some level he's focusing on those fun things to
not focus on the trauma. And there's a great episode about helping him kind
of reconnect with that. And I didn't see any of that in this.
I saw Aang as a kid who went through some horrific experiences and carries a
lot of guilt and carries a lot of trauma. And I didn't see the
whimsy in him at all. I didn't see the joy, and so I
think that was the And that's where I was like, Okay, well what
if if I can view this as a very different kind of Ang. But
let's see where that goes to the story instead. Okay, that's not what
I would have chosen for them to do, but that's an interesting thing for
them to do. But what about you, guys? Is that is that
all in line with Paul what you were seeing, or is that, as
you said, something totally different well, I feel like they tried to have
some of that a little bit along the way. I agree that they The
the way it came about, or the way that it was revealed, or
the fact that, you know, the trauma was kind of front loaded a
little bit compared to the series sort of sort of disrupts that there was you
know, there's a moment where he's like splashing in the water with Katara,
right and like, and I think they were kind of trying to go for
that. I'm like, Okay, there's there's a little bit of that there,
you know. I agree that it's not as much the thing that we'll
do Riki, do you want to respond to that first and then we'll get
into the other separate thing that actually like well, yeah, I mean,
like I was stricken. I guess I disagree about the lack of whimsy.
I mean, okay, I saw the same thing, the scene with Katara
practicing her water bending and then they end up I can't remember if she starts
teaching him in the animated show this early, but the fact that they were
playing in the water I thought was meant to show that that he's not there
yet at the point where he wants to learn water bending. He just wants
to have fun. Yeah, And I guess basically I feel like some of
that's there, but I think it's just not as much as it's like very
prominent in the show, Yeah, with like the whole penguin sledding and stuff
like that. The thing to me that told me that I was watching a
very different show was like all these murders in the beginning that none of the
protagonists saw, none of the protagonists, none of the people that we see
in the presence, I saw them take place. So the way I feel
is like, there's absolutely no reason to put them on screen. They're purely
gratuitous. They're just telling us what sort of show we're watching. You know
that we're watching a Netflix show where a defenseless person is going to get burned
to a crisp on screen, and in a situation that makes no sense for
the story by the way, Like it's just so that the arch villain can
like spout inane exposition and give the audience like a sense of stakes. So
you're like, oh, people get burned by fire bending, which the animated
series like very kind of pointedly occasionally people get burned by firebending. But mostly
they just like get knocked down, you know. And I think in the
animated show, there's a sense of all this tragedy having taken place in the
past, and especially in the case of Aang, he's trying to process all
these things that happened when he wasn't there, right, And I feel like
by not putting all of that directly on screen, then we're like living that
along with Aang, right, you know. And there was a show that
we did a while ago, I guess on the Sibling Podcast where somebody dies
off screen and the character, the main character doesn't isn't there for that,
and so we kind of share that feeling of hearing about the death instead of
seeing it, you know. And I feel like that can be a useful
thing where you actually have the audience experience parts of the story the same way
that the you know, the protagonist does. But mostly just it just felt
like crass and disgusting, and if I wanted to watch that, I just
watched the Boys. Like to me, the thing that I loved so much
about the original show is that it does deal with many of the horrors of
the world and the horrors of war, and particularly like the after effects in
a way that has a certain lightness that you you rarely get and that I
think this show is deliberately trying not to have. And so I was just
like, honestly, like my biggest pet peeve in fiction also just like things
I don't want to watch are just like defenseless people getting murdered, Like I'm
just not interested in that. And I feel like they just very pointedly were
like, we want to put this in your face in this way, and
I'm like, that's not why I want to watch this show. You know,
I want to watch this show for other reasons. So I got through
that part and it, you know, I guess warmed up to it.
I don't know word choice, but you know, there were there were parts
that I really did enjoy, as I said, but just that really started
with like a I started it with a very bad taste in my mouth,
just being like, oh, I don't feel like the producers or writers of
this show appreciated the original show the same way I did. Perhaps they appreciated
it in some ways that I didn't. That's fine, and they're going to
do their own adaptation. But it said to me in like one scene,
this is not the adaptation that you would want. Not that I even really
want an adaptation in the first place, though, so right, yeah,
I would very much agree with all that. I think in some ways,
I think maybe my seeing the lack of whimsy from Aang is probably influenced by
the fact that we start so much darker, because you're right, that's to
me. Ang's journey is that we start, we the audience start very whimsical,
and as he gets darker and darker, and there's an extent to which,
like I wanted to see penguin sledding, but I kind of wonder would
it felt glaringly wrong after just watching, like, hey, this kid is
penguin sledding and his people all just got brutally murdered. Yeah, yeah,
I feel like it might. You know, I've seen things that I feel
like do that and it doesn't feel right. And in the show, they're
able to pull it off because they kind of they don't frontload the trauma,
right, They don't show us right away all of the horrors of what's happened.
They let us kind of uncover that along with the characters and particularly along
with Aang, and so it feels different. I think as a result,
it was so dark and like literally like that first sequence in the Capital City
was like physically dark. And then that matches what we've been talking about,
the emotional darkness of the violent acts. And the other part of that that
I thought was deliberate in the opening sequence was the action elements the bending.
Oh yes, right, because the other thing that this show has to overcome
is the history of the Life action movie, in which the bending was very
different and has often been mocked for how simplistic and how not martial arts it
was. So I thought the action portrayed with the bending was very good.
I'm not sure about the VFX of it. Maybe that's the reason it was
so dark, other than just for the mood is maybe they're trying to hide
some of it. But what was on screen looked very good. It looked
very much like the action sequences from the animated show in terms of their physicality.
So I enjoyed that. Yeah, And it felt to me like they
wanted to display some of that and that power and flash early on because in
the show, you know, it takes a while. It does, yeah,
be a bit of a slow burn, And I do feel like there
was a part I was apprehensive about that, and I think I don't like
how they do it, and Parker is what I was thinking is it's adults
fighting adults, which is something we almost never see in the original. There's
almost always a teenager or someone else young younger than you know, an adult
on screen. I will say, I do I want to hear more from
you guys at a later point about the martial arts of it. I did
think that the fire bending, in terms of the bending in general, in
terms of the CGI and all that looked very good, much better than the
earlier live action. It looked very believable to me. And one thing I
did think they did right because it threw me a bit. But here's here's
my understanding of it. Tell me if you all disagree. And this is
a very direct spoiler, so I want to be a little careful about it.
But I think fire alart always I himself said or someone else said that
at the time they attack the Air Temple, they're they're they're even more powerful
than they normally are. And you know, in that very first scene where
the Earth Temple person is trying to get away with the uh, you know,
the secret plans for the Death Star I'm sorry. I mean for the
invasion of the Earth Kingdom. He's literally hit by a fireball and he's knocked
down and then gets back up and like his clothes are fine, right,
right. And then later during the attack on the Air Temple, as you
said, it is like literally getting hit by fire. People are burned badly
and they're killed. At first, I thought that was inconsistent until I realized
later when again the you know, Zuko and General General Zoo and all of
them are attacking, We're back to fireballs can hurt you and can knock you
down, but won't always necessarily burn you or certainly not kill you. I
think that was because, and I assume they'll tell us about more about this
later, that during the time they attacked the air Nomads, fire bending was
more powerful. Well, it was during Sozan's Comet right, which got named
Sozan's Comet because they attacked the Air Temple during it, right and killed all
the airbands. I think Susan's comment was already in the sky before the first
scene. It was, right, but like maybe it wasn't as close to
the planet at the time, and so their strength was gradually increasing. Also,
though they actually did want the guy to get away, which is why
that makes no sense that they then captured him and brought him back for the
little expository session and you know barbecue, So like, why didn't they just
let him get away? You know, they just had to make it that
convince the other other guy got away. Yeah, but it just did,
you know. But yeah, I could see like a combination of like maybe
the comment wasn't as close yet, or you know, they weren't. They
were kind of half hearted in their efforts. They were trying to make it
look good. They like wanted him to at least get the scroll to the
other guy to then, which also this plan doesn't make sense and isn't really
from the original right where they leak a thing, because then they want everybody
to think about the Earth Kingdom. But then they think the Airbenders are going
to go help the earth Venders because they said he said that, then the
air air Nomads and the water tribes will go try and help the Earthbenders.
But then they're going to try and attack the Airbenders who are having a big
festival during the comment, which they have to know increases fire bending, right
like right, and they know that they're going to plan some attacks, so,
like, I don't know, it just it bothered me from that,
like they added a bunch of kind of does it it works for you?
No? No, No, I think you're absolutely right now. It doesn't
work because when we get to the Air Temple, they're talking about having to
send assistance to the Earth Kingdom, right, and the monks are talking about
shipping Ang away for training because he as the Avatar, he has to be
the one to help stop the Fire Nation. Yeah. So if the Fire
Nation just ever leaks these plans, they could have done a sneak attack on
the Air Temple like completely, and they could send for sneak attacks. I
mean I think, like plot wise, it would have made more sense if
they leak the attack on the Earth Kingdom, the Air Nomads send their best
warriors to the Earth Kingdom, and then the Air Temple is less defended.
Yeah, that makes it is how I feel like it should have happened.
So maybe there's a little bit of weird plotting going on here. Yeah.
Yeah, no, I can definitely see that. I can never see that.
Yeah, it did seem if you want to show off your CGI bending
early, I totally get that, but I agree doing it in this way
having to be so dark, and I guess that's all Here's what I think
is gonna for me be The fundamental challenge of this is in general, I
don't think there's anything wrong with saying, here's this fascinating story that was told
primarily for one audience. We are now going to take that story and tell
it for a different audience, which will in some ways change the story,
but will try to be as true to that story as we can be.
And often that is like, you know, it's written as a kid story
or a ya story, and now they're going to tell it for a more
adult audience or whatever it is. And I think that often works. But
I think, and again, as we all talked about for quite a while,
and Paul, you really convinced me of this many years ago, this
story it's not that it's a kid's story. It's not that it's a story
told for kids. It is fundamentally a story about a child, and that
that can be told in a more adult way than the cartoon was than the
animated show was, But you still have to keep that it is about someone
who can be both very wise and very strong and still have the whimsy,
and as you said, maybe it's more of it there that I'm doing credit
for. But I think what you said, Paul about them not getting that
point of the show. I'm going to give them some more chance to see
if they do, or to see if they're going to try and say,
what if we make it a different point, But it definitely is not that
original one, And that's that's said. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's
pretty much how I feel. You know, it's like it's a show where
the protagonists are kids, you know, or teenagers, right, and like,
you know, there's only so much like you can really chap that story
is really only going to work in certain movies, And there's an extent which
I feel like maybe the original series was the perfect, you know, marriage
of medium and story where this is a story that was meant to be told
in animation and that's trying to adapt it for live action is just a fundamentally
difficult idea if nothing else. But yeah, it's I don't know in terms
of like taking a story and making it darker or whatever, like if it's
not just for the sake of making it darker, I mean, I don't
know. I love the Dark Knight Batman. That's not who Batman always was.
You know. I love the Netflix Daredevil. That's not who Daredevil ever
always was. You know. It's like, I'm not opposed to like having
different versions of characters. I guess it's like when there's an animated series,
then you're just trying to make like the live action adaptation. It feels a
little different than when it's like comic book characters that have had forty iterations already
in the comics and then you're just adapting them in different ways. You know.
But as I did say, though, I think there are some things
that is doing very well, and I mean I am going to give it
the chance to, like hopefully, even if it doesn't capture some of these
things that I love, I do hope that it manages to capture some of
them and then maybe even bring something that that was absent. We're kind of
latent in the original show, but like, could we could get more of
right than we did? Yeah, this is coming out at a difficult time
because we had the Netflix live action one piece within the past six months.
I'm going to say, and that was such that was such a success at
capturing the essence of the characters of the one piece manga and anime, and
it just like blew everything away in terms of all of the other adaptations we've
had, like Cowboy Bebop, u U Hawk Show came out after and and
so like this is coming out at a time when it's like, oh,
now we have this example of something like it finally succeeded, whereas like so
many other anime to live actions have not succeeded. So it could have it
could have struck you know, a couple months before and been successful, right,
But now it's like when the MCU haven't, it's like, oh,
the MCU worked. How about if we try to make the DCU work or
the Sony Spider versus verse work and they don't, and it's like, well,
why can't we be the MCU. Right, So it's difficult when one
like very prominent example succeeds so well and now like it's probably even harder to
follow that up at this time. Yeah, And I personally am judging it
on that like, oh, well it's not quite one piece yet. Yeah,
I think it's fair. I think I don't know one piece, but
I know for Cowboy Bebop, for example, it is animated, but it's
by no means a kid's show. Like if someone asked me, what's a
good show to have their eight year old watch? Like, I think some
eight year olds would enjoy it, but I think I, you know,
it deals with very adult topics and very adult themes, and you know,
so does Avatars to a lot of other kids shows, But to me,
Cowboy Bebop is it's animated, but there's nothing about it that says, oh,
this is primarily aimed at kids, in the same way someone like Avatar,
I think was, And in some ways, I think, like it's
always weird talking about that separation between the two, because I think the best
shows are ones that maybe aimed at one audience, but that all audiences can
enjoy, you know, which I think Avatar very much was. Yeah,
has something for various different people, right, Yeah. Yeah. When I
watched The Muppet Show as a kid, my mother absolutely loved it. And
then when I grew up and watched it again as an adult, I realized
there was a whole leverage layer of meaning and jokes and references that as a
six year old I was totally missing that my mother loved, you know,
let's talk about the bending just a little bit more. Paul, as a
martial artist yourself, someone who's talked a lot about this and studied a lot,
and one thing you always said that you loved about the animated show was
how each of the four benders, you know, it was their own martial
arts. It was clearly drawn on different martial arts from our own world,
and each of their martial arts seemed to really fit the ethos and philosophy of
the different element that they were doing. It did seem to me like the
movements were different between the different groups, but as so a lot more training
and understanding of this. How did that look to you? Fine, I
guess I would say. I'd say overall, you know, the martial arts
mostly looked good to me, believable. You know, I think pretty much
everybody who was who was doing action was was moving well. It felt well
choreographed. There were some kind of conspicuous cuts where I felt like the fluidity
between the martial arts, like the actual physical active bending and then the results
of the bending, right, the elemental result doesn't feel as fluid to me
as as it does in the animation. I mean, part of that is
because you're layering you know, VFX on top of physical action, right,
whereas in the animation you're just you're just drawing the whole thing. So not
to minimize that achievement, because I think in the the animated series it's fantastic,
but just that to me seems like a more straightforward thing where you're working
in one medium. Here you basically have two forms of media that you're laying
one on top of the other, and I think it's harder to do.
I haven't rewatched the m Night Shyamalan adaptation recently. I mean I maybe watched
five to ten minutes, and I was like, I just I just can't
which, to be honest, is how I felt in the beginning of this.
But then when I got back to it, I was like, Okay,
there's there's definitely strong things here. I mean, there's you know,
two performances that I think are arguably arguably better than in the original, and
definitely some some stuff. But in terms of the martial arts, like it
seemed fine, Katara isn't really that powerful yet, so it makes sense that
she doesn't, you know, her movements, they don't show too much of
that yet. Right, I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing more of that.
It does kind of develop in the first two, but there's some spots where
they kind of cut from the result of her bending to then her kind of
like holding her arms, and I'm kind of like, okay, you know,
that was a choice, and I think it was because they wanted to
be a surprise specifically, like where she you know, brings the water guyser
up to knock aside Zuko's fireball to try and knock them off off of right,
and that's just that. But to me that like maybe that's more editing
than like choreography, you know, But overall, I thought the choreography was
good and you know, better than I mean, I would compare it more
to the twenty ten adaptation than the original series. Was like felt a cut
above this so far. But also it's like it's animation. You can have
people move however you want, you know. Here it's like you actually have
to have people doing those stunts, and I think in terms of them just
being human beings doing all of that. Yeah, so far, so good,
that is what I would say. Well, especially because one thing I
was thinking about was that, you know, the voice actor you cast has
nothing to do with the physicality of the animated character on screen. Yes,
whereas there are some people who were cast who think were quite good, but
I don't think of them as martial artists. Like you know, the the
actor who's playing Uncle Appa. I'm sorry, I mean uncle mister Kim.
I mean Paul Sung Young Lee, the actor who played mister Kim and Conconvenience
and has been many many other things. I think he's fantastic because Uncle Iro,
I'm really liking him. I don't know if he's ever studied martial arts
in any way. Maybe he has, but he certainly has exhiited that in
any of the other stuff he has. Really Okay, okay, okay,
I'm going to talk about here you go. Because I was very disinterested in
the idea of another live action adaptation of The Last Airbender. And I saw
some video someone talking about something. It might have been on his like some
like Canadian Awards show where he's getting an award for playing you know, Kim
Sagiel on Kim's Convenience, and I was just like, stud would be a
great Iiro, he would be a great Uncle Iro. And one of the
reasons was, I mean, you know, he's got the build, right,
he's like he's got a certain size to him. Yeah. You know,
at the time, I was saying, like, well, he can
definitely do an accent that feels convincing and doesn't feel like really fake. And
he's obviously chosen not to and to you know, just speak as normal Canadian
English, right, And that's fine. I don't think that really matters one
way or the other. But like, if you're going to have someone do
an accent, you don't want someone to do a terrible accent, right,
Like that's you really don't want that. And and he could do comedy while
also being serious. And he can move well because in Kim's Convenience the first
season there's a hot Keto episode where he goes and does hot keto. Oh,
you're right, And I could tell the actors like he's moving like he
can move, and so I can definitely see him be someone who you know
is mostly going to be kind of have a cup of jasmine tea and then
at some point, you know is going to be like, did I ever
tell you how I got the name Dragon of the West. It's more of
a demonstration, really, you know, and then just be like a total
badass and it's like, oh yeah, okay, yeah, so yeah,
I anyway, that's why I watched the series. And he can do that,
but he's not like a martial artist first and foremost, which is like
the aang that they cast in the In the m Night Shamalan one like sent
an audition tape that was basically just like a martial arts demonstration. You know.
But I think your point that you were getting to that I so graciously
interrupted, was that you need actors who can act but then also can do
action, right, Like those two things don't always live in the same body.
Yeah right, I mean they rarely do. It's because that's like two
totally different skills that you need to be able to put together. And I
mean, of course you can have stunt doubles, but you don't want to
do too much with stunt doubles because then you never have the character's face in
the shot and it can be jarring, right, and you know, unless
it's like din jarring and then it works. But sorry, I'm on,
But even the basics like, of course they're gonna have stunt doubles. Of
course there's probably gonna be some wirefood going on. Here, but even just
like the basic forms of the kata, like when they take their stances and
poses like that, that has to be believable that they know their stuff.
So I do think it's very important, and that's why like casting live action,
I think the most prominent example for me is going to be fire Lord
Ozi in the animated shows, played by Mark Hamill, right, fantastic voice
actor. But now like at the end of episode two here we got the
image, we got Daniel day Kim is gonna be Ozi, and I'm looking
forward to seeing some of his fights and looking forward to seeing him take his
shirt off for one of those fights. Right, And I don't know,
like the martial arts I was even though I didn't like the storytelling style of
the starting in the past, I did like that we got to see trained
Airbenders at the Air Temple fight off the Fire Nation soldiers, because in the
animated show it's only aang. I don't think we ever get to see a
flashback of the Airbenders maybe one of the avatars, right, But seeing like
this very prominent martial arts battle between the Fire and Air and the movements of
the Air Monks, to me was very reminiscent of the I believed the tallow
in hung Chi, the way that they moved in the circular fashions, and
of course both literally manipulating you know, airflow and causing circular wind patterns around
them. Like I really love that. Yeah, I can see it,
and I mean I was really struck by that battle, and even in that
early scene, which again the first time, I was just like, why
is this here? Then I went back and rewatched earth bending looks terrifying as
it should, like you know, the ability to like throw rocks, throw
boulders, throw you know, sharp pebbles at people, and then just to
pull up a wall to help keep you safe in some ways, to be
the only one that hasn't really looked badass so far as water bending. And
that's because, as Paul you were saying, so far, we're going seeing
Katara and she is still still learning right now. Yeah, for sure,
for sure, I actually didn't see that whole battle because that's the part that
I'm like, oh, here's the genocide. I'll skip through the genocide,
but like maybe I'll go back and watch it at some point. But yeah,
I think seeing a lot of airbending sounds cool. You know. I
mean the thing in the in the original series is that it's like the whole
point is that it's the last Airbender, right, but like, you know,
this this does provide more context for that, and to me, it
kind of having Aang be the only Airbender that we ever see I think made
sort of Katara and everybody else who lives in this generation their point of view.
We can see their point of view because they've all only ever seen this
one Airbender and we've only seen this one Airbender, whereas now we've seen you
know, centuries apart and you know, score of Airbenders. It was was
anything in the original series about and being like a super powerful Airbender? Did
that ever come up? Or is that kind of something that they either added
or is in the graphic novels. I think the editor was in the graphic
novels because in agreanted, I didn't memorize it. But I watched the original
animated just a couple of days ago, and one of the things about the
episode where he likes the event except for the whole Earth Kingdom spy thing,
like was totally right, the attack on the Air Kingdom something like we and
the plotting of it all is something that we do find out about, and
so the going there is something we see. But and and we've seen flashback
him, you know, running away when he's told he's going to be the
Avatar. It part of why I think he in the in the animated show,
he's deeply surprised because he doesn't think of himself as better than everybody else,
right, And and I think that was something that was that was lacking
here. This is very Anakin Skywalker the way they talked about him when he
when they were like, he's the youngest Airbender ever to receive his tattoos and
stuff like that, like not just the chosen one, but like the chosen
one of chosen ones. Yeah, not only is he the Avatar, he's
the greatest, the youngest, greatest Airbender we've ever had, right right,
right, Yeah, Because I think part of the thing in the original is
that he's a good Airbender, but he's made the Avatar. They know that
he's the Avatar for things that have nothing to do with the quality of his
bending, right Yeah. It's just like a sign or something, and it's
it's it's a weird decision because why he doesn't have to be the greatest Airbender.
He's the last airbender in this world. He's literally the only one who
can do this now, right, So he's now the greatest. He's also
the best anybody's ever seen exactly, No one living result was under people,
right, he doesn't have to be the best that ever was. So yeah,
that that does feel like a weird choice to make because it it sets
him up as special beyond being the Avatar, which I feel like should already
be special enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It also felt like,
again, I don't want the show to be all about making a twelve year
old boy feel guilty and terrible and us thinking he's terrible. But it let
him off the hook for him leaving a little bit more than the animated show
did it in that he's just like, I just need to kind of like
go fly to clear my head, and then he specifically says, let's go
back. He's like on his way back on the right, right, because
in the animated show, doesn't he like leave, like actually run away and
like leave a letter, right, wasn't that what happened? So he actually
do this, whereas this he's like, I'm just going to go for a
drive, and yeah, yeah, and it and it leads to a very
and it's this is important because it he's to a very completely different sense of
responsibility and guilt for this character going Forwardah, Like he he didn't abandon his
tribe, Like he just happened to not be there when the attack happened and
then got caught up in a storm. Yeah. At the same time,
in if he's not like the greatest of all time, you know, like
then it's like, what could he have done in that moment if he'd stayed
at the Southern Air Temple in the in the animated serious Whereas here it's like,
if he's that good, you know, maybe it wouldn't have been the
difference, but like he probably could have helped, you know a little more
than just like, you know, he's just a twelve year old kid who's
an Airbender but isn't like the greatest and you know, yeah, I don't
know, Well, I was just going to add the like, as Star
Wars fans, did we all get like the the Order sixty six flashbacks during
that scene? Yeah, yeah, yeah, when they're hurting, when they're
hurting the kids, and I'm just like I see the lightsaber lighting up.
Yeah, well, it felt like, again, this was a way in
which it was choosing to tell a different story, and it made a bit
sad because it seems to be leaving out when I think is one of the
best parts, at least in some or at least changing because I think you
write, Paul, the public perception of why did the Avatar why has the
Avatar not been with us for the last hundred years is somewhat inaccurate, And
there's this weird thing of ag feels guilty for something he did, but it's
not quite what everybody else doesn't is mad at the Avatar for, And it's
why I really missed. It feels like this show is basically doing a We're
just going to tell the key parts of the story, and we're going to
leave out all the side quests and the side quest that we missed that is
part of the story these epatodes tell is the trial of the Avatar. In
the original part of what happens when he goes to Kiyoshi Island is he finds
out that there's an island right next door that hate the Avatar because as they
see it, Kyoshi came and killed someone who was very important to that town
some time ago, and in going that he connects to Kyoshi as part of
his trying to figure out what really happened, and it really opens the door
to these real questions of sometimes what the avatar needs to do is not what
the people want the avatar to do, and sometimes the avatar might be wrong
about what that is, and that there's a tension there and that that has
a lot to do with how people perceive the Avatar. And to me,
it's one of my favorite episodes from the original series, and I was sad
that it's not here because I think it foretells that a lot of those side
quests are not going to be here. I don't think we're going to get
Secret Tunnel, much as I love it, but that's at least a year
away. But also, I just think it's such an essential story. I
was reading and Senile and the phrase secret tunnel was literally in the book because
the characters go down a secret tunnel, and I had to I might have
sung it out loud for a moment. I couldn't help it. I was
like, it was reflexive, But yeah, I mean, they're doing eight
episodes, right, They're not doing a twenty episode season. The episodes are
twice as long, so you should be able to cover or even three times.
Right, the first one was over an hour, you should be able
to cover a similar amount of ground. I kind of liked the way they
did Kiyoshi here. I felt like it worked like just that whole episode,
that second episode, the second episode definitely worked a lot more for me than
the first one. You know, although again, like ag just like turning
into Kyoshi also felt to me like just an excuse to like show extremely impressive
bending before any of the characters are that strong. Yet, you know,
that was weird, Like I was not expecting that to physically be Aang's body.
Yeah, yeah, I thought that was very weird, like, and
there wasn't any look of like it being an apparition. It's like, no,
he just literally morphed into Kyoshi. And you know, the whole past
lives thing was never my favorite part of the whole story, but like I
do like Kyoshi as a character, and like, when I watched that,
I was just kind of like, why don't you just do a Kyoshi series,
Like if you wanted to tell a different story that was fundamentally different from
Aang's story, Why not just do Kyoshi's story, like, well, it
could be great, Like you could just do a great Kyota. Yeah,
you could do a bunch of different avatars. And maybe they will and maybe
this was their sort of like, ah, did you like that? Well,
guess what we have a spin off coming taking place two hundred years earlier.
Yeah, I mean I thought the actors playing Kyoshi was great, and
I will say what I would hope would be a part of it, because
I thought it was really well done. You know, last time when we
talked about this, one thing we said was that we all kind of wish
that we had more Suki and you know, her story. Oh and I
really I loved how they did suki story. Yeah, but now as I
did too. I loved the character in this one, the live action.
I loved the scenes with Sokka, but that that's going to make me miss
her even more, Like, oh, when she's she's not gonna show up,
I mean okay spoilers right, like she's not going to show up again
for a while, maybe not for the rest of the season. And then
yeah, like I this is the This is a problem when you adapt something
that already exists, right, is that these two characters, and the actors
in particular just sold that. I loved their interactions and it was i'll say,
like it was hot right like it was that the tension was there between
them. It was it was beautifully done, beautifully acted. And now it's
like nope, like he Sawka's going off to the Northern Water Drive, like
their adventures are going to happen. You'll see Suky later. Yeah. I
feel almost like they did that too well, because then things that might happen
at the end of this season that we won't talk about yet will kind of
feel yeah, like I don't know, I mean, maybe they can really
sell that too, who knows. And this is also the problem with a
like a full season television show, like back in the day when you had
a twenty six episode television show and you filmed the episodes, you know,
kind of one at a time. If you had an episode like this and
you saw the interaction between these actors and stuff, ooh, I like this,
let's bring this character back or like or get back earlier than we had
kind of plotted out. Like that's the kind of change that would happen in
those TV shows. Yeah, Mat Carrow, the character Felicity was like just
barely going to be just a thing, and then they're like, oh,
everybody loves this and the chemistry is great, let's just like make her a
regular and now she's like in the comics yeaheah, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Spike was supposed to be a one of villain in a week, Yeah,
and she became a part of the regular cast. Yeah, in those ways.
If they do do go pretty far afield, I'd be okay with it.
Like at one point I was watching with I was watching with Mary and
she was like, wait, Suki just going to join them, And I
was like, I hope when he gets the end of the season, they'd
be great. Yeah. I think I think they could just not be doing
anything with her. I think that'd be a mistake. I think we could
have her show up again in various ways. I think we might get like
her doing things with like the Spirit of Kyoshi in some way at Kyoshi's temple,
Like I'm hold, you could you could show some other stuff that happens
not within the presence of the central crew. Yeah. Maybe, Yeah,
for sure. Her martial arts were spot on too, by the way,
like that she was like she can move well. The makeup was amazing.
I was like, why do you take the makeup off? Like that felt
like we just wanted to shook it off as like one wipe too. Mary
was so upset about that magical make myself also like tried for twenty minutes to
get all the makeup off, but kind of sleep still knowing some of it's
there, Like I want to buy those makeup wipes. But yeah, they
did change the story pretty dramatically. Socca is arrogant and obnoxious, but he's
not specifically sexist, right, you know. But I was okay with that,
Like I felt like they giving Socca a different journey. And in some
ways I always got the sense that there's a tension at this point in their
story, but they don't really get together until much later, in part because
she sees how much he's grown up. And but I'm like, look,
I have that story. This is just gonna be a different version of it
in a different way. And so yeah, in some ways that I was
a lot more okay with than some of the other changes we talked about.
Yeah, but it's a shame because the version of the story that these characters
portrayed to me, like the natural conclusion that I felt would have really worked
here was Suoki joining them at the end of this episode, right right,
like just some scene with her mother and her like her mother having already packed
her bags and saying like you need to go with them or like whatever,
like tearful goodbye between them, and then like she runs after Rappa Like I'm
coming to like, yeah, like if you were writing the series from scratch,
that would just be like, oh, yeah, she should join Team
Abacue. Yeah, right, Like that just makes sense. It was that
good. Yeah, I wonder tell me if you guys think this is true.
I'm starting to feel like I would like this show as an adaptation a
lot more if the movie had been much better. And what I mean by
that is, Paul, you were saying about how part of why the Dark
Knight version of Batman works not that Christopher Nolan was the first to come up
with it. There have been comics that went that dark, but it's also
that we have so many other versions of Batman, including on screen. We
still live a world where a lot of folks, I don't think this is
anything wrong with them, it's just different perspectives. Like I would love them
to see Avatar, but they're like, eh, I just don't like animation,
or they'd probably watched the first couple episodes and have a reaction much like
I do. Of this is really a kids show and I'm not here for
it. And I think part of what I was hoping with it, I
think I would really love for there to be a live action. I could
show those folks and be like, hey, this has all the main points
of the animated it's not animated, it's you get to enjoy it and we
can talk about it and just have more of that story out in the world.
And I like them telling a different kind of an Avatar the Last Airbender
story, But I feel like I would I want the first live action that's
actually a good live action to be a lot truer to the story. And
then I want to see things that go for their field. And that makes
sense, Yeah, I can see that. I mean I feel like,
I don't know. I'll circle back to what I said earlier, like maybe
that story is an animated story. Maybe it's just not a story that you
can execute in the same way live action, Like if you literally just took
the same script and tried to have all the characters do exactly the same thing.
Like, I don't know that it would work. Maybe it would maybe
if I'd seen one piece and liked it, I would feel that way.
I mean, I having seen the series Keenchin and then watching the movies,
I was really surprised the extent which they could capture the essence of the characters
who are There's a lot of like very anime specific things right in the series,
and they have a lot of those in the live action, which also
has like, I mean, one of them has some like bloody fighting scenes,
you know, although it's very different in tone from the others for various
reasons, but like it somehow. I feel like that felt to me like
a huge achievement and like a lot to ask, you know, And I
didn't think they would do it, and then they did, maybe not perfectly,
but very well. Here I feel like actually capturing the original animated series
in all of its everything about it that was it, I feel like would
probably be really hard to capture in live action. Cowboy Bebop, I think
they could have done a more kind of direct adaptation instead of taking some of
the liberties that they did because of the nature of the show. Like you
said before, it's a different sort of show, you know, that's a
different feel. I've always felt that like Airbender and Kenshin actually have a certain
similar there's a similar something to them, something in their essence that feels kind
of connected. Well in Kenshin might be the perfect example then, because I
absolutely love the live action Kenshin. Yeah, I do not at all like
the say, the kiddies version watch show, yeah, because and I think
that's not fair. But to me, I agree, yeah, the because
the first thing came to mind. But to me, the Kenchin animated show
very much feels like a kid's show, and it makes me feel like I'm
watching something that I'm just too old to enjoy. And that's probably my personal
failing. But to me, the movies are much much more mature in ways
that are And probably that's also because probably it's about adults and it's about yeah,
yeah there's kids and there's like a teenager or whatever. But you know,
it's like it definitely I agree, and I don't. I don't think
failing is fair. I think preference. Let's go as preference. I mean,
you could say whatever you want, but like I feel like, yeah,
people have preferences. Some people just can't watch animation at all, and
like I try to dispel the notion that like it's necessarily four children, But
like if you don't like it and you just and you give it a chance
and you still don't like it, like you don't like it, that's fine.
You know. Also, the first like twenty thirty episodes of Ken are
like quite different from the next like thirty or so and whatever. But yeah,
but yeah, I agree. It's like it's nice when there is a
live action version of something that people who just can't with the animation or a
specific animation can enjoy, like because it to me, I mean, the
Last Airbender is a story that I would like more people to enjoy because I
think it's a great story and I think there's a lot of value there,
you know, and you know they're trying, they're making choices, and you
know, we'll see how it goes. So I just want to get some
clarification. The Kenshin was an anime, right, Yes, I'm trying to
draw a distinctioneer when I say anime, I mean a Japanese product. Yeah,
and the live action adaptation was also Japanese film. Yeah, because so
it's not the same. Yes, sure, And I'm not trying to be
a snob here, like this is anime, Like Avatar is not anime because
it's not Japanese. I don't care like about that distinction. But when something
is written for a Japanese audience specifically, like It's, it's very different.
So I'm wondering if some of that is maybe what Matthew didn't enjoy. Because
one of the things that strikes me, like we're talking about Sokka being less
misogynistic in the live action and I was while you were talking, I was
thinking, if the original Avatar had been a Japanese anime, Socca would have
been a pervert, Like that's you have to have one character and that that's
like a pervert, and like that's one hundred percent who that would have been.
So even even the animated Avatar version of Socca is like okay, Like
I can live with that because I don't need this character that just like knows
bleeds every time he sees a beautiful woman, right right, right, Yeah,
that makes sense. Let's talk some more about the casting, uh Riggi,
what do you think about some of the casting choices and how well they
did it didn't work. Okay, I'm gonna say this. I love Paul's
son, Yung Lee. I love him to death, and I was excited
when I saw his name attached to this. Didn't didn't love his portrayal of
Iro quite yet. But you know, I'm a huge Iro stan So it's
like it's just not quite there yet. I don't know what it is.
I may have to like watch it again and specifically watch the Iro scenes and
maybe, like I haven't seen Kim's convenience, so maybe you all who have
seen it can can chime in a little more with with his performance and like
what he brings to the table, like it just some something wasn't there,
something was missing, and I'm not quite sure what it is quite yet.
I really liked his performance, but I also felt like I needed it was
a performance. Like his acting was fine. Maybe it's the writing. I
just don't know quite yet. I don't know if gravitas is the right word,
but it's something like he felt more like a peer than kind of a
wise old man. You know who is Uncle Iro, especially in the earlier
seasons. Well there's only three, but he strikes me very much. Is
that kind of like he's a little bit kooky, but very very wide,
like there's almost Yoda like aspect to him. Yes, yeah, that I
felt, And maybe it may also be because I've seen him play you know,
Appa mister Kim for so long, who is also he's not a kooky
old man. He's a very kind, very loving old man who's a bit
of a buffoon sometimes. And that to me, those is like probably about
our age, right, say again, just for the record, he's probably
about our age, just like in his forties or early fifties. That's just
saying, yeah, yeah, that's fair, that's fair, And it may
also be part of it. It's to me like I wrote someone like in
his like sixties or seventies. But right, it's yeah, I want to
give him the chance, and I think he has the chance to really be
good. And I thought there was nothing about him that I was like bad.
I was just like, this isn't quite striking me in that way,
right, And it was, like I said last time, Iro's my favorite
character. So it's like there's a very high bar for me in terms of
like an Iro performance. And I think the what you mentioned, the koo
keeness, that could be part of it. I think this portrayal of Iro
was much more. I don't know, like it's not necessarily I guess deadpan,
yeah, like like he talks about t but there's it just maybe it's
the Zuko as well, like he has to play off Zuko in a certain
way. And there was only really one moment where I felt like they got
that really right. Was when they're walking around the the village and he's talking
about food and says something like very serious and then part way through is like,
oh, sticky Rice. Yeah, it just like walks away and then
the face that Zuka made, like that was their relationship to me, And
maybe just because we have fewer episodes, like they can't sprinkle those in as
much or something. Yeah, I felt like in the second episode they were
really getting it, especially in that spot in some other spots as well.
And then they showed the little the bamboo leaf rapped sticky Rice later which makes
me hungry. But I mean, I have a theory and I don't like
it, but like I think it's possible that the sort of feeling that we
get from Iro and the difference between the animated series and here is like his
accent, Like I think that that is probably an unfortunately significant part of how,
yeah, I mean, how someone's words are received, right. And
I think there is this perception that if you have like an older wise you
know, generally Asian, but it could be a number of different backgrounds with
an accent that sounds somehow different to what you might be worth used to hearing
day to day. I think there's a certain sort of wisdom that's ascribed to
that, particularly in the realm of martial arts, you know. And I
don't want it to be that way, you know. And I know that
he could have done an accent. I mean, I know that the actor
has done many different accents throughout his career, and he specifically said that the
first time he did a Korean accent, or agreed to do a Korean accent
is when he did Kim's Convenience, because it always felt it felt like kind
of not right to him. And and I know, I know, like
the idea of like Asian American and Asian Canadian actors like having to do an
accent all the time is like this very unfortunate type casting thing that finally were
somewhat getting pasted, right. But I do think some of I mean like
a huge part of the original Uncle Iro was like the performance of Maco,
right, Yeah, And I believe that was just the actor's natural speaking voice,
right, and his accent, because I've and I don't know for certain,
but like I've been sleeping with like Fraser running in the background, and
I'm like, that's Uncle Iro and he's playing like a book editor or a
publisher or something. And he sounds the same, you know, the same
way you can hear Batman if you hear a cheers Kevin Conroys in an epism.
But so I feel like, and when you say Yoda, I remember
a time passed when I was talking about and whatever. And like, I
mean, like, why do you think George Lucas or whoever actually wrote the
dialogue for Yoda, like, had Yoda not use standard English grammar? Ye?
Like, it's probably to make him seem sort of different, and it's
probably kind of supposed to be. I mean, it's not the same kind
of grammar that someone of any particular language would necessarily speak with, right,
But like I do think it's to try and kind of replicate that feeling where
people get this sense of kind of perceived wisdom. I mean Ironically, people
also often ascribe incorrectly the like ignorance to people who have various accidents, right,
and so it can swing both ways. But I do feel like that
was that was a part of the character. In terms of the way most
people experience the character and see the character, that shouldn't be an integral part
of the character. But I think for me, I think I had to
sit with Paul Sunken Lee as Iro for like a full episode before in the
second episode, I was ready to be like, Okay, this is who
Iro is here, and I feel it his interaction with with Zuko, and
I think really Dallas Leo does a like brings a lot to that as well.
That that dynamic, I feel is going to be one of my favorite
things through throughout the show. And it did take me a little bit to
get into because you know, I didn't know what he was going to go
with, you know. And I also think that the writings is not the
best in terms of dialogue overall. And you know, as an actor,
you just you work with what you're given, right, and then maybe you
can make some suggestions or whatever. But if the dialogue's a little a little
clunky, maybe then it's probably just harder to bring it kind of, I
think, you know, Yeah, I mean, I think you are right
that the accent of the original Iro played by Maco, And it's weird because
in that show, very few other people from the Fire Nation had had any
kind of accent, including his own brother by Mark Hammel. Right, he
just played it straight up as he usually does. Yeah, it's just the
joker, and it's I agree with everything you said about how you know,
Asian actors were or are sometimes still often forced into roles where they have to
play it a certain way, a certain accent, so I do appreciate it.
But it is something about his voice and something about the accent combined with
it's his like cadence and speaking speed just made Iro right, and it's it's
hard to replicate that and have that without the accent. I think is part
of it, no doubt, No, I think it's arry true. I
think I hadn't thought about it, but I think you're right. I hate
that, but it's part of just though you know, where we're all taught
and things like that. And it's funny because I think you're right that it
is primarily experienced with Asian accents and things like that, but definitely not exclusively
because one of the ones that I was thinking about this was is that often,
especially a lot of the TV and movies I grew up with, there's
a time when the character will go see their like their Jewish grandfather, and
I couldn't have life. Let me tell you what it was, But there's
some movie I saw in the nineties where it was a Jewish grandfather but clearly
like the family had been in New York for a number of generations, or
I know they weren't even in New York, because often the Jewish accent and
the New York accent are often intermingled. Person just had like a kind of
standard American accent, and it felt completely wrong to me because I associated,
you know, wisdom coming. And granted this is in part because my uncle
Lou had that kind of an accent, and he was very much the wise
old man of our family. Right he's been passed away for twenty years.
We still tell stories of you know, what Uncle Lou would say and things
like that. So yeah, yeah, so we'll see where that goes.
I do think that the casting as you were bringing up Paul of Commander Jao
and of Zuko is phenomenal. I heard people online complaining that Zuko's scar is
a lot more understated than it is, but I think it's perfect. I
think again, it's the kind of thing like in anime you have to go
not anime and animation, you sometimes have to go over the top a little
bit with a scar, and I think this looks much more realistic but still
incredibly you know, like affecting, like this person's clearly been through something terrible.
I thought, Sokka again, a soaka. We talked about the Saka
suki chemistry. I really like Socca Yeah, Soccer okay, played by Ian
Ousley. He just he just nailed it right. Like of all the characters,
I think he is like the most similar to the animated version of the
character, like the look, the way he talks, like his voice,
the comedy. Like I just probably probably my favorite of the character so far
is the soccer character. Yeah. I think in part because I don't hate
him. It's curious what you said about how like every anime has to have
certain things. I think a lot of American animation often has to have that
one guy who's a chauvinist and he's arrogant and he thinks that he's the hot
shit with all the ladies, and like Wally West in the the Wally West
version of Flash in Young Justice is what comes to mind most. But often
there's that character and you're constantly like eye rolling in work because it's so over
the top. But it's animation, and that's kind of how Socca comes off
to me. In the first couple episodes of Avatar Last Airbenner animated and he
changes rather quickly, And I've always wondered if that was always the idea,
or if they weren't getting test audiences earlier they were like, we just this
soccer guy is just kind of painful to have on screen. But I felt,
and maybe this is just the way they're playing a story. Maybe it's
the actor in this He's not arrogant in the way that just I don't want
to watch the way he was early in the show. To me, I
much more feel the weight of this is a thirteen year old boy who was
told this is a boy of like fifteen sixteen who is told at thirteen you
have to protect the village, and who took them on and it, you
know, it did things to him and the way Toll often do to any
person of any age, but especially a thirteen year old. But I felt
much more sympathetic to him and like eager to see him grow than I did
with the animated Yeah. I mean, I think he has the arrogance and
the chip on his shoulder, like without the side of misogyny. Yeah,
right, which, like we were talking about that in the pre episode right
where it's like, yeah, I feel like he needed the kind of arrogance
that's the it's not even arrogance, it's like the faux cockiness. That's the
clearly kind of compensating for the fear of inadequacy, basically the like the weight
of this responsibility with the knowledge that he might not be up to it,
you know, Yeah, and like you just that to me feels like an
important part of the character. And I think they've showed that nicely without like
it having to be this whole misogynistic thing, which which is nice. Like
I feel like they they they got the essence and left out some of the
specifics, And that is what I'm looking for most of the time, is
like, Okay, what what drives this character, What's what's kind of really
import about this character and then like kind of what sort of just like surface
you know, oh, his scars a little smaller, okay, whatever,
you know, like her head tails aren't long enough. Okay, well they're
probably really heavy on a live action yeah first, yeah, you know,
Like so to me, it feels like a good instance of getting the essence
of the character without necessarily trying to match all the specifics. I do feel
like I could get a little bit more humor hopefully as we go along.
Maybe, Yeah, I feel like they're definitely missing a misogyny, But it
also felt like the in the animated show, it feels like his confidence is
so overblown that it is often humorous because it's often like Katara and Aang or
both of them, or sometimes even Tough who will meet later rolling their eyes
and just how ridiculous he is, and that you know he did take control
of the of the town and defend them quite well. You know, he
is very confident than this. So yeah, it feels like it's it just
dialed down from like a ten to a seven in a way I really appreciate.
Sure, what do you guys think of bang medium, Like obviously like
a very important character, but I think given how young the actor is,
Gordon Cormier, it's it's more important that he not be bad than he gets
good. Does that? Does that make sense? Right? I think he's
doing the job that he needs to do and that's fine. Like he doesn't
need to carry the show, but he needs to be there throughout the entire
show. And like, I don't hate it, I don't love it,
and that's what he needs to do. Yeah, I mean Aang is one
of my favorite characters of all time. And I don't even know if he's
one of my favorite characters or if he's just one of the characters I feel
like I identify with the most in some ways. Like those are kind of
two things, right. There's characters that I love that I'm like, yeah,
I think the Joker is a great character, but I can't say I
identify with him, you know. Yeah. Like, but like Ang is
a character who like feels important to me, and I feel like so far
this feels like Aang. I feel like there's not as much of the whimsy
as there could be, not as much of the lightness. I think some
of the dialogue, some of the lines are not great. And I don't
fault the actor for that, I think he moves well. You know,
I'm not like blown away, but I you know, I feel like that's
a role where you have time and like kind of like what Riki was saying,
like sort of like get the job done, and like to me,
like, don't blow it, kid, you know, just don't blow it
and it'll be okay because you get more to build on as you go on.
And I think one thing about young actors, and not necessarily just in
terms of twelve versus twenty four versus thirty six, but like in terms of
within their career, right, people who haven't been acting for decades and don't
have the most experience. I think when paired with actors who have more experience
and do bring a lot, I think that's a it's like a learning opportunity.
It's an opportunity for growth and there's something to play off of. And
that's one of the things that I think is so challenging here having multiple young
actors working together. You know, that's going to be harder. But I
did think like his scenes with Giatsu, like I found them moving. Yeah,
Like I thought those were very well done, and I was definitely going
to bring that up the edition of that interaction earlier on and having Gyatsu on
screen really worked and that actor, hang on, I got it written down
right here case you lim is monk Kyatsu. Yeah, absolutely, like perfect,
and I can I can understand why they're going to use that as their
Luke use the force. They're going to keep like using his voice, right,
he says of like you are strong and kind and generous. Like I
feel like that's going to be repeating multiple times because it's perfect. It is
the perfect line for the character and for yeah, the delivery. Yeah,
And they're like, I don't you know, I don't want to have the
power, and it's like, that's why you're going to be a great avatar.
Yeah, yeah, I just want to be your friend and he's like
you will always be Yeah. Oh it's so hard. It did, it
did, and I actually I had to pause it and I had to like
talk to my television and say, are you really going to do this to
me? Yes? Yeah, yeah. Well one of the things I was
thinking about in terms of the acting is also whimsy is really hard to do
on screen, especially for a fairly newer actor. And I mean very clear,
I'm not saying this is the actor's fault. But whimsy can be done
very badly, especially by a young kid. And if you don't know what
I'm talking about, just see if you can hear in your mind Jake Lloyd
Anakin saying yippy like or now this is pod racing? No, yeah,
just blew up a ship that's not pod racing. Yeah. Those those are
terrible lines of dialogue. But also again, I do not if the director
could get Natalie Portman to give a bad acting performance. The acting is definitely
not Jake Lloyd's fault, but those scenes come off as cringe worthy in part,
you know, because of that. And I think so there's an extent
to which again, like I want whimsy, I am okay without whimsy.
If my option is bad or cloying whimsy, well, it's the last major
actress we have. So the last major actor we haven't talked about it yet
is Katara, and I want to start with her. I want the first
thing I'll say about her. I want to talk about her in her own
right. But big spoiler here, h So skip ahead if you really don't
want to be spoiled. But there is going to be the idea of romance
between Katara and Aang introduced later in the show, and to me, one
of the things that came across very strongly in live action, I feel like
it's a lot easier to know what ages people are, and there was a
set I never liked that idea. We talked about this in our last episode,
in part because Katara feels older than Aang to me in this it was
incredible, like, to me, looking at those two actors together and maybe
they're going to extend the timeline of the show, sounds that Angrily grows up
because in the original it all happens over six months. But looking at those
two the idea of him having a crush on her felt very much like,
you know, nine year old Anakin having a crush on fourteen year old Padme.
And yeah, it just made it made me very uncomfortable because it really
feels like they are two different age groups at this point. Right now they
are and I've looked into this. Right in the animated show, Aang is
supposed to be twelve, and I believe Katara is either fourteen or fifteen.
I thought she was thirteen, Okay, maybe, but she is older than
him, right, Yeah, And the I think part of the problem is
how young they are. Plus the three seasons take place in one calendar year,
so that they don't age up that much. My understanding is that the
live action show to account for the fact that they have to film over multiple
years, and the actors are going to age up, the human beings are
going to age up. They are going to let the characters also age up
at the same pace. So by the end of the show, in theory,
we should we should have a ang character who is like fifteen or maybe
sixteen, and I think that will make it more palatable and more believable that
they have this like young romantic relationship budding. Yeah. Right, But it
was just like the fact that the original show all happened in one year,
so he's at most thirteen. I think that is what really made that ending
off the romance, because to me, it's not even just that it's an
age, especially in this she is a teenager, he is a child.
Yeah, And that's what comes across to me. I mean, I know
those lines are arbitrary, but like puberty is not arbitrary, Like it's a
thing people go through. Sure, I don't know. I feel uncomfortable with
the discomfort to some extent, but I mean, I hear where you're coming
from. I mean, so here with these the actors here, I think
they're like three years apart, right, although I think he's like fifteen and
she's like eighteen or something something like that, which I guess they're both teenagers
then, but like, I mean, he's a centurion also, you know,
I mean he's like one hundred or something. Technically, yeah, you're
rolling your ice, but like literally, I mean, because that's the thing
though, It's like, I don't know, I think I think it's the
sort of thing that like it's one of those things that is usually problematic.
But to simply look at something and say this is usually problematic and therefore it's
never okay. I think it's problematic. And yeah, and I understand,
like in the first show kind of sort of where people are coming from,
you know. But also I don't think she's supposed to be fifteen or sixteen
in the first show. I think she's thirteen east twelve, and they're like
a year apart. Yeah, and in a lot of ways, like in
a lot of ways, he's more mature than she is, you know,
it's like they're mature in different ways, and I think it's complicated, and
I don't know, I do think that their romance kind of comes like a
little out of left field, you know, like it's not really it does
feel more like, you know, he kind of has a crush on her
and she's like just focused on She's obsessed with him as being the Avatar,
right, you know, like she's that's like her focus in the world in
life is like Aang is the Avatar and is going to save the world,
right, you know, So that like eventually blossoming into some sort of something
else is not sure illogical or unbelievable to me, and of a theory.
It's not that I think that it can never happen. Yeah, I do
think it's stages of like I said, you know, they're not always the
same. But I think that there's a you know, at first glance,
this feels wrong to me. The show can make me believe it it's okay
by telling me that in the story. I don't think they did that in
the animated And I mean in terms of how they feel for each other,
sure, but in terms of like reconciling the age difference. But and I'm
what I'm more and I can sort of reconcile it. I mean, like,
well, maybe she's not as old as I might have thought she was
in this it just looks much starker, Like sure, yeah, And I
mean I do think it's the sort of thing also that like, I mean,
if you're that young, you're actually not that se separated by that many
years years and if it's it's not like you know, it's not like they're
having a one night stand or something. It's like they're you know, kind
of like life mates for like decades and so after a few years, like
yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, I mean just like I've
never really dated anyone closer to me in age than they are to each other.
And granted I've been an adult, you know, but like and so
has everyone else. But like, you know, I didn't really date in
school. But like my point just being that, like over time, if
we're talking about like a long term relationship, like the age difference is like
irrelevant in terms of them like being interested in each other and like getting it
on. Like yeah, no, that seems weird. That seems weird to
me. He's twelve, right, But like I don't see that as that's
not like it's not that kind of show, you know, Like I feel
like it's not that kind of romance, right, but I don't know.
Yeah, so we'll see. Listen. It just was striking to me.
But let's talk about Katara herself, because again, I don't feel like she
had enough to do that made her really stand out. And I think Katara's
the character of Katara get some really great stuff later in the show, including
in the season, but there was nothing about her that made me feel like,
oh, this is the wrong person. Like, I thought the look
was great. I love that they got her hair perfect. She felt very
believable to me, and I really liked seeing her and I want to see
more of her. Yeah, she felt kind of like gang to me.
You know. Yeah, I kind of felt like they were both fine.
I enjoyed their scenes together. I liked the I liked them kind of teaching
each other a little bit. You know. You know, she's learning water
bending very fast, you know, but like that's fine, Like she's talented,
right, I Mean it's a world where like bending is kind of this
innate ability, It's like an innate talent, but then developing that talent is
a skill, you know, And so she's kind of not really been trained.
She's deliberately not been trained throughout her life, so she's been kind of
stumbling through on her own. And then finally she gets to talk to a
master bender who has some wisdom that helps her with her bending. And then
then she gets a scroll and like that's helpful too, you know, it's
like, oh, now here's some concrete knowledge related to like water bending.
I feel like she didn't have a lot of super cringey lines she had to
deliver. I'm trying to remember there were Grand Grand had to say. Most
of the things that were just grand had the expedition and exit. Yeah,
like yeah, maybe that saved us from having to like have Katara deliver that
lines and they have to like live with the character for the rest of the
series. You know. Well, so let me actually ask listeners, if
any of you did not watch the animated show, what did you think of
when Grand Grand is in the sort of hall with all of them and she
says, you know, once the Foig Nations lived in fire, Once the
Foig Nations lived in harmony, but then the Fire Nation attacked and she gives
them kind of like it's a speech, and she says, this is a
story we've all heard that is almost word for word in a way that made
it jarring that it wasn't exactly word for word the exposition that came at the
beginning of every single episode. So yeah, I'm wondering if to someone who
hadn't heard that before, did that sound like a grandmother telling a story in
a way that has been told down through the ages again and again, or
at least for these act or did it feel really awful? Because to me
it felt really awful. But to all of us I think, but I'm
curious to someone who has the the show, did it feel different. Yeah,
I'm I'm curious too. Yeah, it was too bad because other than
that, I did love Grand Grant as well. I thought she was very
good. Yeah, I don't know the casting beyond the main cast that we're
going to follow, Like, I'm really enjoying some of the people that they
are. They're peppering in here. So Grand grand was played by Casey camp
Horneck, and then Yukari, who is Suki's mother. The mayor of Kiyoshi
Island, is played by Tamlin Tomita, who you may recognize as I believe
it was Kumi Ko from Karate Kid two from way back in the eighties,
and she she came back for Cobra Kai whatever the season was. He went
back to Japan. So, and she's been in a lot of things.
Most recently, I think she was in Star Trek Picard. So seeing her
in this was great for me. And that Kyoshi Island, like her Suki,
like the Kyoshi Avatar character, all of that, give me all of
that, like more of that. We're not getting more of that, We're
barely probably going to come back, but that, like we were talking earlier
about spin offs, that's the spinoff I want is like the Kyoshi Warriors spin
off and like all of those characters. Yeah, yeah, yeah, or
like just maybe like thread some of that goodness through the series. You know,
let's see what's going on in the rest of the world. We don't
like just have to follow the main characters, you know. Yeah, I
mean I don't know a lot of my absolute favorite characters get introduced in season
two or three. So yeah, Paul, you don't want to know about
any future any people that have been announced as being cast, right, That's
correct? Yeah, okay, cool. I'd rather only talk about the performances
we see. The only ones I knew of were paulse On Young and Dallas
Liu, who was in shunk Chi, who originally I thought played the young
hunk Chi, but he didn't. He played Aquafina's younger brother. Oh oh
yeah, ok yeah, who was like barely had he was just like there
to annoy her. I think mostly yeah, Katie's younger brother. Another thing
I thought was done very well. That again I was very trepidacious about.
I freaking loved Apa and Momo. Oh yeah, perfect Momo. Momo like
oh good Momo. Yeah, Like that was That was one of the few
spots where I felt like, I feel like they got more out of Momo
than the show did for most of the time than the original is a walking
machine, and they did perfectly. Yes, looks great, It's hilarious.
Like it's the relationship between Mobo and Sokka. Already I can see kind of
you know, Sokka makes his meat chokes or whatever. But then it's like
you could tell, Okay, you know they're gonna this is where some of
our whimsy and our humor and stuff is going to come from. And and
Opa as well. For sure. Yeah you know, I it's too bad
Iro never gets on Apa, because then we'd have Opa on top of Opa
exactly, exactly. Yeah, I mean the scene where uh, the scene
where Aang hugs Appa ill. Yeah, like that was very powerful. So
it's kind of like, like, don't put your hand right on his nose,
dude, that's that's not comfortable. I've had babies do that to me
and it sucks. But you know, like other than that, I loved
it. Yeah. No, the fact that that relationship is clearly so important
to the storytellers that they understand that, like Appa's Aang's only living friend from
his old life so far, you know, like that's a big deal.
Like that's a relationship that survived a hundred years in an iceberg, you know.
And so to me, that was like one of the top things that
I really was hoping that we get, you know, and it's it's just
a little you know, it's it's subtle so far. Hopefully we'll get,
you know, all the way through the various parts of the story that I
love so much, you know, but just even just getting that much is
something that I feel like the first adaptation was just completely disinterested in. Yeah.
Yeah, So that's it. So all right, we've gone for a
good long time. We're not going to do bonus content. Frankly, We're
giving you four episodes and four days, and I think that's pretty awesome.
But members who are getting these episodes earlier, and because of the way that
I post these episodes, I work with other folks who generally don't work on
the weekend. It may be that the episodes are going to come out Monday,
Tuesday, Wednesday, but I imagine a lot of people are not going
to watch the whole show until over the weekend. So but this episode will
definitely go out on Friday, and then you'll get the others possibly Saturday,
Sunday, Monday, or a couple of days later. But any of the
last comments that you want to make, I'm really looking forward to seeing more
of Zuko. I just think the sort of anger and desperation that I've gotten
from the character, along with the complete absence of malice. Yeah, you
know, like there's this rage, but it's this rage that's not at the
people that he like, he didn't want to burn the village to the town
to the ground. He just was going to you know, but like it
sells the character for me in a way that I feel like it took the
animated series a while to get to the point where I feel like they've given
me a better Zuko here than the animated series did in the first ten episodes,
and so I'm hopeful that the whole arc will just be I mean,
I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, And speaking of Zuko, one thing
I noticed that they seem to be maybe emphasizing more was Zuko's belief that the
Avatar. I think he calls them the Ultimate Warrior, right, yeah,
right, because when Aang gets escapes from his ship, he says he ran
the Ultimate Warrior, and so like he has this image in his head of
what the Avatar is supposed to be, and the fact that it's this kid
first off as a surprise, but then the fact that he's running away.
I hope that this is something that they keep revisiting, because ultimately it is
a part of Zuko's journey. Is that understanding that it's not about how you
use your bending in terms of fighting and might, but about the heart.
Yeah, I think it's all really true. And I'll say I still don't
think overall it's a good thing, but I will say one positive of those
first scenes was, in terms of what we're talking about here, that sense
of melos you're talk talking about, Paul, that we didn't feel. I
absolutely did feel from the fire Benders attacking first that Earth Nation guy and then
later the Air Nation, the Air Nomad, and I feel like it made
Zuko's really stand out because you know those people were they you know, they're
fighting for the Fire Nation. They wanted to defeat the Fire Nation's enemies.
They want to kill these other people. Zuko, to me, feels like
he wants to do what will get his his honor back in the eyes of
his father. Yeah, and the father has said the Avatar needs to be
captured, and so that's why he's captured. He doesn't. It's not that
he thinks his father's wrong, right, that he's just not questioning it.
He has no independent belief that the Avatar has to be captured or that the
Water Tribe Water Nation has to be destroyed. It's just like, sure,
this is the goal, and I will do anything that gets in the goal's
way. But yeah, no, no, no malice, no no sadism
there. Yeah, And to that point, I feel like the conversation between
Iro and Aang was actually I feel like that was actually a really nice addition,
you know, like Aang being like, why are you fighting this war?
Why is this war going on? And Iro kind of answering the question
without saying what he thought. Really, you know, I thought it was
a really nice way of framing it and kind of helping to understand how the
Fire Nation and it's military can be the antagonist. But it doesn't mean that
they're all evil, Like what they're doing is evil, but it doesn't mean
it's like most of the people are just doing what they're doing. And like
the fact that Zuko has just been brought up this way and then Iro's just
lived in this world as you know, the fire Prints once upon a time,
it's it's it. It gives some perspective that I feel we don't get
until season two or three in the animated show. And that's not a fault
of the animated show. I think it's interesting the way they do it,
but I think it's nice to kind of have that early here. Yeah,
and it gives me hope that we'll we'll get deeper into that, maybe that
maybe that'll be something that for all the things that I've complained about so far
that maybe maybe this series does have kind of something to say on top of
what the original series had to say. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the
that's the flip side of what I said earlier about the Suki situation, right,
Like, Suki is destined to disappear now as a character, unfortunately,
But the fact that the writers of this show know about the entire backstory Vira
means that they can better prepare the audience and Pepper stuff like that scene in
with any which I agree like was perfect. So yeah, yeah, that
was awesome. Well go ahead. Actually, I just want to thank both
of you because now I actually want to watch the next two episodes. Yeah,
and before this, I mean I was gonna but like I was,
like, you know, I feel a little more optimistic, a little more
you know, I can grab onto the parts that I enjoy and kind of
let the parts I don't as much. Maybe past I mean, I was
right there, like that opening is so jarring as a fan of the animated
show, and the brutality of what the fire Firelartsosan does in that scene was
just a shock. It's absolute shock, and it seems deliberate, like that
whole beginning seems very deliberate for setting the tone here and making sure that people
understand that A, it's not the animated show and B it's not the previous
live action movie both and all the good and the bad ways. Yeah,
I think that's really true, and I think that's probably exactly what it was
a sign of. If you're looking for a shot for shot remake of the
original, this is not it. You know, we are not doing that.
And in some ways it makes me almost wait, wish this was a
weekly show, because then you'll give it a little bit more time to settle.
But also I just want to know, I want to see everything else
because frankly, I just mostly was going to kill me. Is like,
if I do really get invested in this show, then waiting another year for
the Earth Kingdom stuff. So oh yeah, yeah, yeah we'll see.
But all right, Well, thank you both so much. This was such
a good conversation. And yeah, I when when Paul got started and I
was like, oh, he's right, They're so right. I was worried
this was going to turn into ninety minutes of bashing it, and I'm really
glad we didn't do that, and I thank you both for helping to make
sure we didn't go in that direction, So thank you both so much.
To our listeners, really want to know what you have to say. As
always, you can find all the ways to contact us by looking in the
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Behalf of myself, Riki and Paul, thank you so all so much.
We have spoken. Yep, yep,