WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:29.160 Hm. We are joined by Brian into Insomnia Games hot off the presses, 2 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:34.000 I guess from the release of Spider Man two. I'm very excited to have 3 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:36.880 you there. I'm joined by Lucy James, of course, and we are 4 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:40.560 going to be talking about Spider Man two in this spoiler cost That's what we're 5 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:42.719 talking about. That's what we're doing. Do you know have you heard of 6 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:48.679 that game? I haven't played any other games, so that's probably so. 7 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:51.679 Yeah, we're going to dive deep into the game and the story. So 8 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:54.520 if you haven't played it, first of all, you should probably go play 9 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:58.280 that and then come back to check this out. But yeah, let's get 10 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:03.719 straight into it. So, Brian, obviously successful first game and then the 11 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:07.159 successful kind of spin off game based on that, You're coming up to Spider 12 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:11.599 Man two. What is it as a team that you go into it thinking 13 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:15.799 that your objective is and what do you want to achieve with a follow up 14 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:21.000 game? Great question one is I think first one was really about, hey, 15 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:23.319 can we do it right? Can we can? We? We've never 16 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:26.799 worked on a license I peop before, obviously something working on something like something 17 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:32.879 as popular as Spider Man, like probably the most popular Marvel character. You 18 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:34.560 know, it's like, hey, can we prove we can do it? 19 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:38.760 And now thank you for the compliment that the first one was successful. It's 20 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:42.239 like, okay, can we do it again? And expectations are real, 21 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.239 right, it's it's real. And I think whereas before people are like, 22 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.319 hey, can they just do it? Now, it's like they have these 23 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:52.640 expectations like, oh, it's going to be everything and more and I and 24 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:57.840 that can be It can be intimidating, it can be like very stressful, 25 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:02.719 very stressful. I think think what we kind of said was okay, kind 26 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:07.919 of let's think about things in three buckets. One is, don't screw it 27 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.120 up, Like, here are the things that, like, don't make it 28 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:15.479 worse, like people love swinging around the city. Don't make that worse. 29 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:20.080 Like, just find the things that that will make it better. So that's 30 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:22.960 an example. And then there's like, okay, hey, we we we've 31 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:24.719 played the game ourselves, we've seen what fans are saying, we've read the 32 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:32.199 reviews. What are areas like boss fights or injecting more narrative and exploration and 33 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:36.080 the side content. That's stuff that we can actually improve upon. Okay with 34 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.879 that stuff, And then The third thing was, hey, we know this 35 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:44.840 is we knew very early on this was going to be a PS five only 36 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:46.120 game, like we were going to make it exclusive for the PS five. 37 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:52.000 What can we do whether it's the way we're leveraging the console, what we 38 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:55.159 want to do from set pieces, you know here we're switching all different features, 39 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:59.120 like how can we take advantage of the PlayStation five? And that's kind 40 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:00.960 of how the journey starts, so like the pillars of the game kind of 41 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:05.479 represent that that journey. It's like, you know, we obviously we want 42 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:07.560 to you know, tell a story of two Spider Man right, that was 43 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:10.479 like something right, and we want to say, okay, how can we 44 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:15.240 you know, make this more of a reactive city, so having more exploration, 45 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:19.479 discovery, more narrative, having more cause and effect. So like seeing 46 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:23.879 the aftermath of the Sandman fight. You know that that the early on in 47 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:28.840 the mission where they're in the boat, the overturn boat were craving leanscropping first 48 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:30.120 cephal missions later you can see the boat still in the water, right, 49 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:34.240 And I think because like you know, in Spider Man one, we had 50 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.599 that one mission where like you know, the helicopter or that's what you know 51 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:40.039 in that it's a cool sequence, right, but like in video game world, 52 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:43.400 if you just turn your head out of the missions, almost it's gone, 53 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:45.879 and we want to have more of that cause and effect. And then 54 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:49.719 it was like, hey, looking at combat and traversal, which I thought, 55 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:53.319 we're relatively really good in the first two gate the first game, what 56 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:55.560 are things we can add to that? Just up that more? And then 57 00:03:55.560 --> 00:04:00.960 the fourth thing was like really like taking those those back to pieces and really 58 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:05.240 upping, like making them bigger. Reason one reason why we started with Samdman 59 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:09.319 in the beginning, and then all the different ways we could leverage the console, 60 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:11.520 so kind of that was kind of the journey that we went on with 61 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:14.080 this game. Yeah, when it came to the narrative as well, I 62 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:16.319 think let's just kind of jump right into it because now it can let's do 63 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:23.160 it. When did the idea for Venom, you know, Harry being Venom 64 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:27.319 kind of come about? And how important was it to us a team to 65 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:30.120 implement that in a way that feels like you're going on a journey with the 66 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:34.959 characters and it feels like an authentic to really really I would say probably halfway 67 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:38.959 through Spider Man one, like because we you know, we had that teaser 68 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:42.199 scene and that shows Norman in the tank and Harry with the cymbia, right, 69 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:45.439 so we knew that, yes, we're kind of hitting ourselves in the 70 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:46.680 corner, like you better do. I mean, we could have like said, 71 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.120 oh, that's another thing, but we knew that's where we want to 72 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:54.639 go, right. And I think that, you know, I's there was 73 00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:57.959 a reason why the black suit wasn't the Symbio suit wasn't in that first game. 74 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:00.240 I think I even said at one point after the game ship, I'm 75 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:01.759 like, oh, that that kind of story that it needs its own game, 76 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:05.839 and that's what we do. But we did, And I think the 77 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:10.519 kind of the the are kind of guiding light through this whole nine years of 78 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:14.439 working on Spider Man has been like, let's respect the DNA of the franchise, 79 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:16.319 yeah, but let's not be afraid to mix things up. So, 80 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:18.319 for example, I think Venom is a good example of that. Like you 81 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:21.480 look at Venom. If you're a fan of Venom, I hope when you 82 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:25.639 see Venom you're like, oh, that's I recognize that character. He has 83 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:29.759 the traits, the personality, the characteristics of a great Venom. But the 84 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:32.040 host is different, it's Harry because we wanted to have more of a we 85 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:34.959 want to have a character who had more of an emotional attachment to our heroes, 86 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.560 right, So that's that's one of our change ups, right. And 87 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:43.000 then we did little things like you know in the comics the Venom has multiple 88 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:46.000 weaknesses, like its fire is and I freak. We said, hey, 89 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.439 can we just limit it to to sound, because it'll be not It'll just 90 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:53.199 be I don't want to sit there and go, Okay, everybody, boys 91 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:56.040 and girls, here's the lessons on symbiotes, and here's the five different ways 92 00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:59.399 it's weak. Let's just pick one and make it something unique and interesting. 93 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:04.120 So but I think the the number one thing that we talked about Venom was 94 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:09.000 we want to make it our own story. Yeah, and we and it 95 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:11.959 was and this is gonna sound. I hope this didn't come across. She's 96 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:15.600 like, how can we make this an emotional Venom story? And I that 97 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:18.560 was kind of the thing like I'm really proud of is that, you know, 98 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:23.519 even though Harry's motivation once the the symbio is, I mean, what 99 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:27.680 he wants to do healing the world is right the way he's doing about it 100 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:30.639 through the cymbio is wrong. So I think we always want to that's kind 101 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:33.600 of important to us as like there's something with every whether it's you know, 102 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:38.600 Auto, whether it's Tinker, and now it's whether it's Venom, there's something 103 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:41.439 you can connect to with with the with the villain. Yeah, I was 104 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:46.160 gonna say, like you talked about expectations, like it must become more tricky 105 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:48.839 to kind of obviously you're you're playing with the same pieces that a lot of 106 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:51.879 other stories have. In the first one, you had the Auto story, 107 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:55.519 which is something that has been done before, but you kind of subvert it 108 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:59.639 in really interesting ways. And the expectation from a narrative point is like the 109 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:01.680 more games you make, the harder that gets. Right, Like so, 110 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:05.879 and the way you did it with Venom was I think done really well because 111 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:10.759 up until then, like Venom is Eddie Brock and he's kind of like down 112 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:13.279 on his luck that kind of thing. But the fact that you went with 113 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:17.319 Harry was very very unexpected. And it also unless I'm like reading it wrong, 114 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.680 like it let you work in stuff like Agent Venom, like that that 115 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:25.040 costume and that kind of stuff. I mean that that Harry moment is very 116 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:28.600 much inspired. Yeah, so like that remixing, How hard is it to 117 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:30.920 get that? I know people always ask like how hard is it to work 118 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.600 with Marvel to do that stuff? How hard is it for you to kind 119 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:38.319 of draw those connection points? Like most people wouldn't think of, oh, 120 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:42.360 agent Venom perfect Harry, you know, I don't. It's I'm trying to 121 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:44.560 remember. I'm like, Okay, when did we think of agent ven I 122 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:49.000 think I think what we started was was what is the path of getting to 123 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:51.480 Venom? Right? Like what like like we were kind of starting what's the 124 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:54.639 end? Right? Okay? We want Harry to be venom? All right? 125 00:07:54.720 --> 00:08:01.040 Now? At what point? In like is to sound really complicated, 126 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:03.360 but it's not. It's like, Okay, I look at the lore and 127 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.759 I'm like, okay, what are the elements that people If we don't do 128 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:11.879 it, they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna be really mad, Like you, 129 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.360 some point you need, no matter what we do, we need some point 130 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:20.000 where Pee gets the symbiom, and we need some point where he doesn't have 131 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:22.399 the symbiote anymore, right, Okay, so like we need those things to 132 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:26.279 happen. Well, all right, but we want to but we we know 133 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:31.800 we've seen Harry in the tank with the symbio. Now how does it go 134 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.440 from Harry in the tank to having the symbio? But he's not Veno and 135 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:39.519 yet because he hasn't been bonded with Peter yet, and then how can it 136 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:41.159 get to Peter? And then so he starts like it's like a puzzle, 137 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.679 like and what you have is you have all these pieces, but then what 138 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:46.519 you realize is like the puzzle pieces actually don't fit, so we start cutting 139 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.200 the pieces of the puzzle fit thing. And I think it kind of starts 140 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.879 with that, and then you go like you just geek out, man, 141 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:56.320 you just like figure like I read this comic book and I saw this thing, 142 00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:58.320 Agrian Venam, What if all of a sudden we said Harry wants to 143 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.320 not only be as part and are in business, but also wants to be 144 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.840 a superhero like that kind of thing. Yeah, that's the question. Like 145 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:05.960 the follow up to it is like how early how much of this is is 146 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:09.879 like fortuitous because the idea of you know, reach the end and you realize, 147 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:16.080 oh, part of this is Harry feels really powerless and that you don't 148 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:20.000 really realize up until the very last moments that it's not just because he wants 149 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:24.399 to feel healthy again. He wants to feel like he's got some ability to 150 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.559 affect the world and it's being perverted. Like was that always the plan or 151 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.519 is that like, oh, that element allows us to connect to this element. 152 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:35.080 I wish I could tell you that I'm so smart that I plan all 153 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:37.440 out and we're so brilliant. It's one of those things that just comes through 154 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.240 iteration, Like you know, where as we start working on the story, 155 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:45.039 you know, basically we sit in a room and we just take a bunch 156 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:48.600 of not cards and we're just plotting out like okay, this is this is 157 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:50.519 gonna happen first, and then this and this, and then we like, 158 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:54.759 okay, this is a story. We want. Now what missions? What 159 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:56.799 would you actually do? Because it's you know, you got to play the 160 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:01.480 game, just not watching a movie, right, And I think what happens 161 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:03.240 is you start to move all those pieces around and play it around. You 162 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:09.679 start to the game in the development process kind of shows you where to go, 163 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:16.720 if that makes any sense, Like, for example, I don't even 164 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:20.320 though we wanted to make a story about Pete and Miles I'm not going to 165 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:24.519 sit here and lie to you and say it was a It was totally from 166 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:28.399 day one to be about them. One percent is going to be like, 167 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:31.080 oh, they both have something happened in their past, the death of aunt 168 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:33.799 May, Martin Lee responsible for his father's death. They're going to go on 169 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:37.519 a journey on you know, let's just say January one of twenty nineteen. 170 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:41.120 They're going to go on a journey where they have to learn to move beyond 171 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:48.000 the past they could move forward. That kind of came as we started putting 172 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.159 things together and we're like, because like in the risk going okay, what's 173 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.960 relatable thing? Okay, and then we're like, okay, so what what 174 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:58.480 if if Peter's in the dealing with aunt May? Like what is what is 175 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:01.600 Miles obstacle? And that was really important, Like yes, they have this 176 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:05.039 story of like Craven coming to town and then eventually Symbiot. We want to 177 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:09.799 have these individual stories and we're like, listen, we we haven't really been 178 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:11.840 with Pete since on May passed away, so like, I mean, we 179 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:15.320 all know we've lost them in others them in their lives, like it's it 180 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:18.120 impacts you in many sometimes in obvious ways, not the bivist ways. You 181 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:22.840 can see it obviously impacting Peter. And then I'll say and then it impacts 182 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:26.480 him going I lost on May. I ain't losing Harry in no way, 183 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.960 right, So that and then you look at Miles and you're like, Okay, 184 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:33.960 what's a relatable story for a seventeen eighteen year old? And we're like 185 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.360 and I go, oh shit, like like can I sparing us? Okay, 186 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:39.879 okay, sorry, sorry, I know I've asked that every single time 187 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:43.679 after I do it, and uh, and we go, well, I 188 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:48.320 remember how stressful was to apply to college and then writing that college essay going 189 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:52.399 like or universe, I'm like what am I gonna write? And him kind 190 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:56.519 of distracting himself and seeing his friends and like making confident next steps and and 191 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:00.320 we're like and then we then you start to like you start to like play 192 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.039 around those pieces and we're like, wow, like, well we could bring 193 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:05.639 Martin Lee back, and Martin Lee kind of it's you got to start doing 194 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:11.320 like and that's the really fun part, Like it is thinking about those days 195 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:13.559 is like kind of you're like, oh my god, like we had like 196 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:18.120 what we're gonna do? But that's where like that's the fun part of the 197 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:20.120 job, right, is to kind of put it all together and you see, 198 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:22.799 like I mean, it's really like putting a puzzle when you find like 199 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.120 ah, I found it, and it goes in right and then you know. 200 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.840 But then there's like the but then there's the thing where you have the 201 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:33.679 the story treatment and it reads right on paper and you start writing scripts and 202 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:37.759 you're like, well, that stinks. That's not gonna work that or like 203 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:39.039 we start putting that mission together, that's not gonna work, and then you're 204 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:46.080 tinkering again, you're moving things around. So I've learned, and it's I 205 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:48.759 think I'm feeling like I'm crystallizing this thought as you asked that question. It's 206 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:50.440 like a game kind of tells you where to go, Like you have an 207 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:54.360 idea of where you want to go, but let the experience happen naturally. 208 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.840 And I think sometimes when you're like it has to be this no matter what, 209 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:01.320 now, there are some things I can tell you, Like I was 210 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:05.360 like, we're starting with Samman no matter what, Like we're gonna make it 211 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:07.600 work. And maybe maybe that's not a good thing, but I was like, 212 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:09.440 we're gonna start with Saman, but other things you kind of like ride 213 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:13.320 the wave. You know, Okay, I see us heading in this direction, 214 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:15.799 let's go that. Like, you know, I knew we were gonna 215 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.039 start with Saman. I knew at some point you're gonna play Venom like I 216 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.639 didn't want. I didn't want. I didn't want the Internet to talk about 217 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:24.639 not playing the Venom right, So, like you put some you know, 218 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:28.840 stakes in the ground, but these other things you got to learn to bend 219 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:33.759 because these games are too big, too complicated, and like once you make 220 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.000 something interactive, it just becomes that much more difficult. So you gotta be 221 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:39.480 willing to bend a little bit. And also, like I work with really 222 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:43.039 smart people, I want them to tell me what we should do, not 223 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.240 me tell them what to do. Like I can tell you we can go 224 00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:46.919 through every mission, every story point in the game, and I can point 225 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:50.240 to three to twenty people who go took that and made it ten times better. 226 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:54.480 So I just like I don't want to know. It's not you know, 227 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:58.440 our our games are made collaboratively, and we are always kind of it's 228 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:03.360 it's what is the best idea that we have in West Worm one, we 229 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.679 go with it. Doesn't come. It's not it's not that sitting room go 230 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:09.000 all right, I got all the answers. I don't I don't even want 231 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.919 that responsibility. It's not because I think everything what people bring to the to 232 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.080 the table is just so much more interesting. I want to talk to you 233 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:20.320 a little bit about one of my favorite missions in the game is with the 234 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.960 Coney Islands going around effect, because it definitely feels like in a game full 235 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.399 of such huge, bombastic moments, it was this really nice, just very 236 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.559 human interaction between the three friends, and I really love the way that obviously 237 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:37.080 it culminates in a very bastation, yes, but the way that those interactions 238 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:41.879 were just felt so genuine. Yeah, And so where did you know the 239 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:45.879 the idea for that come from? How do you kind of craft a scene 240 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:48.240 like that one? So I can tell you it started with the idea of, 241 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:50.399 like, hey, so we did the Halloween party in the first game, 242 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.000 how can we drive everybody crazy with something even crazier in the second game? 243 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:58.519 The in the next Insperiment two, we're like, we're gonna build Broken 244 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.960 and Queens. There's Coney Island and we could just do that. So there 245 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:07.399 was that there's and I think we're like, oh, they would be really 246 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:09.200 cool to go around to Coney Island and play all the mini games and have 247 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:16.879 this thing. But the real, the real answer is we talk about Spider 248 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:18.799 Verse, the Spider Verse films, and they have their own identity the way 249 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:20.799 they do things, right, you look at the MC and Spider Man, 250 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:24.679 they handle it a certain way. They chap their own identity. And I 251 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.279 feel like when you look at our Spider Man franchise is something I'm really proud 252 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:31.759 of. Nothing they have to do, didn't do this stuff. But I'm 253 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:33.679 saying like, for us, a big focus has been like a three hundred 254 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:37.000 and sixty degree view of the world. And I think that you know, 255 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:41.360 it's why not. Yes, we have Pete and Miles in their suit and 256 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:45.840 they're doing cool things, but it's just important to see their lives outside the 257 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:50.200 suit. It's also why MJ's playable. It's we want to see these characters. 258 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:52.159 We want to see Well, guess what, Pete Miles aren't the only 259 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:56.240 people in the world in this world, right we have characters who are important 260 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.759 to the story, to the world and they don't have super powers. What 261 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:03.120 are they like? But the most I always say, we want to deliver 262 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:07.559 the fantasy of superheroes, but we want to deliver a very human story with 263 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.879 believable characters just as much because you don't care about the stuff in the suit 264 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.559 if you don't care about the stuff outside suit. So I was like, 265 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:19.840 we were like, we're gonna do moments like Conye Island where it's just three 266 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.919 friends catching up and enjoying a good time in Conyel and somewhere they grew up 267 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:26.720 and probably enjoyed as kids. That's I think we can all find. Like, 268 00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:30.240 you know, I think like to me was going to the arcade, 269 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.440 Like I love going to the arcade with my friends, or when I got 270 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:37.080 a little bit older, drink a little bit more, I could we could 271 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:38.759 go bowling together, Like you know, I think about those moments like you 272 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:42.039 go down that trip of memory Lane, and that was kind of the reason 273 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:45.720 to get that human side of the story in there and to do it on 274 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:49.200 a on an interactive level. For me, I love Cone Allen, but 275 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.480 I would say the Queen's Mission where they went back to Midtown High is very 276 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:57.080 similar. Yeah, like riding the bikes together and then like doing the flashbacks 277 00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:02.080 in between, and like running through the hallways and stuff. So I think 278 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:04.920 it's just I don't want to make these games if we don't do those missions. 279 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:10.359 I just I like, I'll never I'll never not do those like in 280 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:15.119 a way like especially you know, even in like the most bombastic things, 281 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:19.279 we should be able to still have a huge Like I was just watching Endgame 282 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.960 the other day because it was like the anniversary of Tony Hawk Tony Stark diy. 283 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.480 I don't want to say Tony Hawk Tony Stark dying. Yes, yes 284 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:30.119 he is, thank god. And I was thinking about Endgame, right, 285 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:34.680 it's this bombastic, crazy setting, like some guy purple and have this finger, 286 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:37.079 fifty percent of things go away, right, But if you look at 287 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:41.359 all of the motivations and the stories and the arcs of all of those Avengers 288 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:47.039 completely relatable. Tony doesn't want to lose what he's gained, Thor feels responsible 289 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:52.880 for what he did. Natasha is just lonely. Those were Yes, it's 290 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:57.759 crazy circumstances, but their their story is so like normal, right, Like 291 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:00.079 it's just in a weird time, is just in a weird world. So 292 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.559 I think that's that's something I always want us to do in our games. 293 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:10.680 In our Spider Man games, and I think that it's something from day one 294 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:11.640 we want to do. We've always just wanted to do it more and more 295 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:56.359 and more if those games go on and games go on. One of the 296 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:00.240 things that I like about these games and your team's approach to it is that 297 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.920 you apply that same kind of humanizing and relatability to the villains as well. 298 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:08.759 And it feels like redemption is a big part of this story. Like how 299 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:14.880 I mean, like I guess the question is like what came first, Martin 300 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.119 Lee or anti Venom? Like did you know you want an anti venom in 301 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:19.799 this game? And Martin Lee came because of that, and you knew you 302 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:23.400 could also kind of like redeem him to it because that was like fascinating. 303 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.079 And then the other part of this is like in a very bold move, 304 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:33.039 like you seemingly killed off a bunch of villains and there's almost like a sympathetic 305 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.039 quality Like when I heard that you know Scorpion was dead, that you know 306 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.319 and I seen Tombstone, Yeah, that was quite weirdly emotional for me because 307 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:42.839 it's like you have a history and there's almost like, as Spider Man fans, 308 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.920 you just expect them to be there to do that dance. But then 309 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.599 you have this agent of chaos in Craven who appears and just starts wiping the 310 00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:55.720 board off. What was the kind of thinking behind that? So I do 311 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.279 think, you know, we we probably work on the villains as much as 312 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:06.720 we do the hero because I think we've grown away from this everything's a mustache, 313 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:07.720 truly. I want to blow up the world and want to I want 314 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:12.400 revenge. Right that we've we've I think everybody is gonna move beyond that, 315 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:18.319 right, So we always say we want the villains to be the heroes of 316 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:21.640 their own story. I know I stole that from somebody. I'm not that 317 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:23.119 smart. I know someone said that that's really a lot smarter than me. 318 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:27.359 But I remember it's something that's kind of grain in my head. And we've 319 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:33.880 always said, like, you know, Martin Lee in many ways is you 320 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:37.680 know, he's a he was basically experimented on, right, and he you 321 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:40.960 know, and now he was a little bit obviously more on the revenge side, 322 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:42.839 right, but he's a man who's really hurt. I mean, you 323 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:48.799 know, normally a lot of it was responsible for. But in terms of 324 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.440 your question about anti venom and Martin Lee. I can tell you there's I'm 325 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.960 not sure what came first in termed the Chicken or the Egg and there, 326 00:20:55.960 --> 00:21:00.279 but I can tell you that we knew. We knew the symbio powers gonna 327 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.160 be really popular. Like we knew once we put Pete in the black suit 328 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:06.720 and the symbil suit and they're gonna like, oh, this is awesome because 329 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:08.799 it's a power fantasy, right. We also knew if we took once, 330 00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:12.680 we're gonna take him away. People are pissed, and we're like, okay, 331 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.119 we got ven Miles is like, you know, like got all these 332 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.920 cool powers. Now we got Pete with the arms, but like people are 333 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:26.039 gonna miss those smile powers. And we're like, okay, what can we 334 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:30.200 do And I'm like, wow, we do have anti van and we could 335 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.839 have we can do that. And I was like well, and then I 336 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:37.799 think someone said like, well we could also you know in the lore anti 337 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.720 Venim is mister negative and the symbio come yeah, right, And we're like, 338 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:44.000 well, if we do that, then Martin Lee's back in the game, 339 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:45.480 and then we can have Miles have a story with him that ties to 340 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:51.039 him. It's the puzzle people again. Right, So, yeah, that 341 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:53.839 was I don't know if it's happy circumstances or knowing the lore and those kind 342 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.640 of things and like having a lot of puzzle pieces to play with, but 343 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:04.400 I do think one of my favorite moments in the game is that moment between 344 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:11.880 Miles and Martin Lee, just so he can't forgive them, right, he 345 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:17.400 has that he can't let this bother, and that's that's the moment where Miles 346 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.559 can finally write the essay. Like, that's the moment like he needed to 347 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:26.920 do that in order to write the essay, right. And again that's one 348 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:30.519 of our writing team getting together and going how we're gonna map out Miles' story 349 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.359 and now we're gonna have Martin Lee and how and then it coming through and 350 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.279 then obviously then you have two amazing actors who take your script and make it 351 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.480 even better. So yeah, it's like, but I and you talk about 352 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:45.839 the deaths. I know they do this in comics because there's you know, 353 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:48.720 well they're just they're bringing them back, right, I get it. And 354 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.640 not not to say that's right or wrong whatever I think for us as like, 355 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:56.640 I just think there has to be real consequences to things. Happening, 356 00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:57.640 and I think that, you know, if we're gonna do it, like 357 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:03.119 if all that if I like, if we're saying Craven's this brutal character who's 358 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:07.559 like really like he's a mysterious brutal character who has like this weird fascination with 359 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.839 like I want to find the person who's gonna be strong enough to defeat me, 360 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.960 and I'll be happy with my death, right, he wants a good 361 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.799 death basically, Well, if I was Sten, I said, like, 362 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.240 well, guess what, Scorpion and Vulture whoever aren't really dead. It kind 363 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:26.119 of weakens his story, right, and like or like you know, all 364 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:29.599 of a sudden, like you know, we have this big emotional thing with 365 00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:32.640 on May and I'm like, oh, guess what some random character came back 366 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.559 and resurrected or like yeah, yeah, all that thing was for not So 367 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:40.319 it's like it's having like real stakes, real consequences, Yeah, And I 368 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:44.759 think like it. It also plays into the idea that when Pete has the 369 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:48.559 venom suit, there's the idea of he could just kill him off. Yeah, 370 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.880 And there's that the mention of it where I think you will. Martin 371 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:53.440 Lee actually talks about it and he's like, I think he's scared of what 372 00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:56.440 he could do as Venom, and like you see that, Oh, this 373 00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:00.480 is what it means, is what Craven is actually doing. Like yeah, 374 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.559 and in certain respects, Craven by killing them off, has actually helped the 375 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:07.680 city in a more meaningful way than Spider Man has pointing them in the wrong. 376 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.599 We even talked about I think at one point we even talked about how 377 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:14.519 like do we even have Jamison talk about like, well, yeah, this 378 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:17.599 is a good thing and stuff like that. There's so many it's thing we 379 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:19.400 have so many characters in the scams, like sometimes juggle all these storylines is 380 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:22.440 the same we have. Thank God for a writing team, they follow along 381 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:27.799 better than I do. But yeah, I think that it's just really important. 382 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:34.599 Like I think back to like just my favorite superhero movies, Like I 383 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:37.799 think kill Monger is probably one of the best villains in the MCU because, 384 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:44.079 like kill Manger, you totally understand his motivation, why he wants to do 385 00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:45.880 it. He just goes about it the completely wrong, complete wrong way, 386 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:51.119 right, there's an level I guess empathy would be the word for they for 387 00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:55.279 these characters in a bit, And I think that's now Craven's a little bit 388 00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:57.640 of an X factor because he's just so like but like, but then you 389 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:00.279 learned that he's dying, yes, and you're like, oh, yeah, 390 00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:03.839 well I don't I can't relate to it, but I can see how it 391 00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:08.839 can be exactly, So you know, I do think that I'm really first 392 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:11.440 of all, thank you for the compliment about the villains, because it's it's 393 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:15.759 really hard because you can screw them up really easily, and we work really 394 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:21.240 hard to get it right. Because yeah, it's just I mean, if 395 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.000 a guy wearing a line vest, you know, it's like sometimes you know, 396 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.079 I love I mean, as a comic book fan, I love that. 397 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:30.240 I love the look of him. I think you look super cool. 398 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:33.440 But like, you know, we got to make you understand him and be 399 00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.599 scared of him and believe him. You know, that's the most important thing. 400 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.680 So same thing with Venom, you know, seeing like that giant, 401 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:42.079 you know thing, you got to understand there's a person in there. Yeah. 402 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:45.039 For me, I think, like what I really appreciate as a longtime 403 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:51.160 fan of Spider Man is in so many X games specifically, I think have 404 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:56.039 been the best iteration of those characters in a long time because for better or 405 00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:59.799 for worse, they kind of marvels kind of turned a lot of the character 406 00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:03.200 into kind of jokes right now with like you know, you've got Venom through 407 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:07.000 the Venom movies, Like they have their value, but it's played for Lass 408 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:11.359 in a lot of ways. And same with like Morbius and and like Craven's 409 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.920 now got his own movie coming out and believe, but these are like this 410 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.920 was like a reminder of why Craven is fearsome and I haven't had that in 411 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.200 a long time since, maybe since like the original animated series where I was 412 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:23.680 like, oh, this dude's scary. Yeah. I think for us, 413 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:26.279 at the end of the day, it's just focusing on you know, we've 414 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:29.759 set us. I think it's for us, like we always talk about tone, 415 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.880 and I think that for us, it's just what we try to do 416 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.559 is have a consistent tone for the world and the characters in the game. 417 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:40.079 So I think that's it's not about one way is right, one way is 418 00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:41.279 the wrong. It's just we felt like this is what we want to do. 419 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:47.400 We want to have I would say, larger than life characters that you 420 00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:49.599 believe. Yeah, I think that's kind of that's kind of the way we 421 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:52.559 look at it, like I don't want to like, I'll never I never 422 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:56.720 want us to be embarrassed of the of the lore and the costumes and stuff 423 00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.119 like. Now now we're going to embrace it, and we're gonna do a 424 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:03.000 way that makes you like love it. Yeah, I think a good example 425 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:07.079 of embracing that is I'm interested in how whether it was a discuss, whether 426 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:11.160 you found yourself being like, is this too far the inclusion of Scream as 427 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:17.359 a character, because obviously Scream is like one of a few symbio characters and 428 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:19.799 it's not as far as I remember in any instance, been Mary Jane before. 429 00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:22.480 So like, that's where it starts to be, like, you're delving 430 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.799 into symbio mythology. Yeah, so I can tell you that we were always 431 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.440 going to have her turn into a symbio and actually the first concept we did 432 00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:33.839 is actually of her, but she's more like black and white. It kind 433 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.160 of looked more like them kind of thing. And then you know, this 434 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.039 is where you kind of go, all right, we're gonna put the Marvel 435 00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.200 hat on for second, and we're like, well, she has red hair 436 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:48.640 already. We don't have any plans for scream. Why can't Harry turn her 437 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:51.359 into scream? Like and just and it's like, if you know, you 438 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:52.519 know, like if you're a Marvel fan, you're like, that's cool, 439 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:55.599 that's scream And she has all the ability to scream, and if you don't, 440 00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:57.279 you're like, oh, Harry, just like he turned other people on 441 00:27:57.319 --> 00:28:00.839 symbios, he turned MJ into this type of cymbia. It's more like that. 442 00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:04.319 Because I was going to see Speaking of m and you said, like 443 00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:10.000 so many more characters. I really loved the the impact felt on them way 444 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:14.759 more like I think particularly the screen fight when MJ obviously under the influence of 445 00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:22.279 the symbia, but like the stuff she says like God couples therapy, She's 446 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:27.079 basically like here's everything that you're terrible and it's really effective because like I was 447 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:32.359 distracted while playing it listening to her, being like wow, this is awful 448 00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:34.440 and like I'm getting my ass kicked at the same time, but also like 449 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:38.039 not not just the fact that you know she's dealing with essentially being like left 450 00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:42.640 behind by Peter a lot, like she is absolutely second to Spiland, but 451 00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:45.920 like everything with her job, like as soon as she's like, Oh, 452 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:48.079 I've got to hit these metrics. I've got to get on the front page. 453 00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:52.599 This girl compromises through it, and she is going to she's compromising herself. 454 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.720 But that's that's the thing, like we talked about, like that's something 455 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:59.480 somebody might actually have to go through and like maybe are they going to make 456 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.640 decisions for the right reasons for the wrong reason she realized she was going down. 457 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:06.400 She eventually realized that she's going down a path that she doesn't believe it 458 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:14.759 and it was like complete does something else? Yeah, I think that MJ 459 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:18.440 is a really important character to me because I do think she provides a perspective 460 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.039 on a viewpoint of the world that you get we need to see from the 461 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:29.039 from Pete and Miles obviously have this really we we've seen their their perspective a 462 00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:32.680 lot in terms of like we see how they see the world. What is 463 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.039 it like on the other side of that relationship, what is it like? 464 00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:40.160 And I think that And I think the other thing is when we talk about 465 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:44.920 Cymbia in many ways we talk we talk about the addiction a lot, right 466 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.960 and you and there's you know, at certain points, like you see Peter 467 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:52.759 kind of loses himself to it and it changes personally changes, and he says 468 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.279 things like, I mean, could you ever imagine Peter is saying to you 469 00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:59.000 know, I'm not the You're not the hero I am. Like he says 470 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:02.160 that, like you know, he would never he would never say to Harry's 471 00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:04.640 once you go pop some more pills and you know, and or or you 472 00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:07.079 know, yelling at her for her headline and stuff like that, And I 473 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.559 think, you know, you talk about some of the exchanges. One of 474 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:15.640 my some of my favorite stuff is the fight between Miles and Peter, and 475 00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:19.079 and to me, that's like it's real, It's it's happening during the combat, 476 00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:22.880 but it's actually really emotional and like you can hear Peter like trying to 477 00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:29.759 justify himself and Miles is like you gotta. And I think the thing is 478 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:33.920 with both that that that fight with Peter and then with the one with Scream 479 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:40.160 is like we we talked about not only the impact on the person who's under 480 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.759 the you know, the symbio, how does that impact the people around them? 481 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.480 And I think that we realize is like your friend we talked about is 482 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.240 your friends and family and everybody around you can only get you a certain way, 483 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.079 but at the end of the day, it's you that to take the 484 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:53.559 final stuff. That's why Peter is the one at the end that rips it. 485 00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:56.359 It's why MJ kind of goes, I'm going over here for the sound 486 00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:59.400 to kind of rip it off. It's like that final step needs to be 487 00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:02.559 taken by you. And it's kind of the same thing happens with Harry. 488 00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:04.519 He's like he's the one who goes, Pete do it. Yeah, you 489 00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:08.880 know, so I think you know it's it's I'm not trying to say, 490 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.119 oh, like we were telling all the levels levels of addiction and now it's 491 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:17.400 but we did. It's just kind of again like taking this big crazy thing 492 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:22.359 about an alien substance and trying to add some believable believability about what these characters 493 00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:26.799 are going through. Yeah. I think one of the most interesting kind of 494 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:30.319 takes that you guys have put into this game, and it feels like a 495 00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:33.920 like a pot bubbling and just about to flow over the entire time is Norman 496 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:40.000 Osborne, where like, if you know the universe, you just that's it 497 00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:44.400 will happen. You're waiting for the bomb to like explode and I really love 498 00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.279 the way that you guys played with it, where he's he's more doing as 499 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:51.920 a father than he ever has been before, even though you can tell it's 500 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:56.559 kind of like not all genuine. And then the way like you play with 501 00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:00.279 colors with green and like the way it builds up, and then if you 502 00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:02.240 know, like the Goblin story, the way he starts to be more like 503 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:06.519 fatherly towards Pete, you're like, oh, no, we know where this 504 00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:09.079 is going. Yeah, there's a One of my favorite scenes is when so 505 00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:15.680 Pete screams at Harry and MJ and then he goes sees he goes to he 506 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:19.160 sees Norman yelling and they have that like very solid father sim moment. And 507 00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:22.359 that's what Harry overhears a little bit and he's like, oh, so I'm 508 00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:25.920 basically being replaced. Yeah, Norman. First of all, Mark Rolston is 509 00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:30.920 our actor who plays Norman Osborn, and like, that's just like yep, 510 00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:32.119 Mark, you just do what you want to do. We're going to record 511 00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:37.839 it, right. I When we think of Norman and where we're going, 512 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.279 I think I'm glad you said sympathetic, because I think there's a there's a 513 00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:43.799 or I don't know if I I said it, maybe you said, I 514 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:45.960 don't know, but I want I wanted, I wanted to get I think 515 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:52.839 we want to get away from like this, the very like the expected storyline 516 00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.880 with with Norman, Like we I think if we make if we can, 517 00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:04.319 the way we're going, what could happen to him maybe might be more understandable. 518 00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.680 Yeah, I think the setup is definitely there, because like it's easy 519 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.359 to forget because you play the game for thirty hours, but like he's the 520 00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:14.200 one that put the symbia into play, so like, and then at the 521 00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.480 end where he's like, you know, what have you done to my boy? 522 00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:21.559 To them, he's really trying to deflect from the fact that he started 523 00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:24.000 all of this. And then the ending obviously where he's trying to get the 524 00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:27.279 names of who they are out of doc Cock. You can tell like, 525 00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:31.759 oh, he's fixating his like kind of obsession on them being the problem. 526 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.960 And it's a really fantastic setup that I hope, like you guys explore further. 527 00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:40.559 Well, I will tell you that scene I've had in my head between 528 00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.319 Auto and Norman since the beginning. I said, I don't do a lot 529 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:47.240 of things right, but I said, if we can get this, if 530 00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:50.559 we can get if we can if we can go down the path, I 531 00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:55.000 go. I want that last scene between last scene to be between Auto and 532 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.519 Norman having that conversation. So if we ever, you know, continue doing 533 00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:06.720 these things, we can you know, if we're to see because you know 534 00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:10.800 they're so adversarial on that first game, Yeah, that relationship changes, you 535 00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:14.519 know, and I think it could be fun to explore. Yeah. I 536 00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:19.519 like how menacing it is when Otto is like when he tells them like, 537 00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.880 hey, he tells him like they, you know, hurt my son. 538 00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:24.639 He's like good, good, yeah, and you're like, oh, this 539 00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:29.480 is about to be a really awful like partnership. Yeah. One of the 540 00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:32.159 others got me excited. Yeah. One of the other smaller stories that I 541 00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:38.079 really really like appreciated with Tombstone, like that that idea of rehabilitation, and 542 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:42.840 I was waiting for the moment where he's like, actually I'm evil and it 543 00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.960 just never happens, and I was like, I really respect that they showed 544 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:50.360 that in this world people can turn. And the same with Mysterious as well 545 00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:52.079 to a degree, like yeah, it's really really yeah, it's funny. 546 00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:55.800 You're not the first person mentioned that. I don't know if that was I 547 00:34:55.800 --> 00:35:00.880 wish I could say complete plan. I'll say the writers planned it and they 548 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.039 did a great job executing it. But I mean that's reality, right, 549 00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:06.079 I mean people can change. I mean we know, I know, I 550 00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:07.480 know people friends, I have close fer friends. But I'm like, in 551 00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:09.880 the beginning, I'm like, I don't like you. I don't like you. 552 00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:13.400 And then I hope some people, you know, feel that the way 553 00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:15.480 about me, that like, hey, like you know, you're not the 554 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:20.199 person I thought you were in a good way. So I do think that's 555 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:22.920 important to show. Like again, it's more of that show the world. 556 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:27.519 You know, Yes, it's a world that has superheroes and super villains, 557 00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:30.960 but it doesn't mean like it's not reality. There's not a reality to it's 558 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.760 not a believability to it. So I think that's really important that we continue 559 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:37.679 to explore across it. It's not just that it's you know, showing Miles 560 00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:43.920 connect to his community community Harlem. It's you know, you know, showing 561 00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:49.639 showing him interacting with students in his Brooke colynvisions and helping them out. It's 562 00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:54.519 it's Peter sitting on a bench with a you know, an older gentleman listening 563 00:35:54.519 --> 00:36:00.360 to stories about his wife. It's showing all those it doesn't like to say 564 00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:02.920 I've been talking a little bit about, Like Pete Miles. Job isn't just 565 00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:07.039 to deal with sand Man. It doesn't deal with every it's it's it's to 566 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:08.320 help out with everything. That's what true hero is. You don't have to 567 00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:13.480 You also don't need to be a superpowered person to be a hero and help 568 00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:16.280 MJ and Haley show that. Yeah, definitely. One of my favorite missions 569 00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:22.480 is actually an example of how you know, they can solve problems in a 570 00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.079 way that you don't expect, and it's it's just random side mission. It's 571 00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:30.239 a monster one where it's like that a blind lady who's like something is digging 572 00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:32.440 up my my back. It's such a nice one. By the end of 573 00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:37.920 its, yeah, you realize that it's it's one of those robot wolves and 574 00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:40.480 you like reprogram it to be a nice dog and and she's like, I'm 575 00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:44.639 allergic to dogs, and he's like, here's a metal dogs would take it. 576 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:50.079 He's like like packs into it, and it's like I've uploaded thousands of 577 00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:53.119 guy dog videos and it's such a clever. Yeah, that's and that's like 578 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:55.880 I can tigure right now. We didn't have a like we said, hey, 579 00:36:55.920 --> 00:37:00.039 we want some we want some we calm friendly neighbor with Spider Man Quest, 580 00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:05.000 and the team just goes and creates stuff like like, for example, 581 00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:08.719 the the Howard mission, the one where you're helping Howard, that was created 582 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:13.199 by one of our designers, Brian Matheson, who did it during a game 583 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:15.400 jam, like like actually, he we had a we had like you know, 584 00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:20.039 we we have like this kind of somethings. We have like this week 585 00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.199 or two between Thanksgiving and the holiday break and someone are like, you know 586 00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:27.480 what, let's not schedule anything. Li'sten to people have fun and create stuff. 587 00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:30.679 And he designed this thing, and we're like, oh, that's going 588 00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:36.119 to you know. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's that's a good 589 00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:38.880 example of just insomniac being insomniac, you know. And I think that's one 590 00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:42.360 of the reasons why, you know, you It's like if I said, 591 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:44.159 oh, it's going to be this and this and this, we would never 592 00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:45.639 get those kind of moments, we'd never get those kind of creative missions. 593 00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:51.599 So yeah, it's just I'm it was It's funny when we sent out the 594 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:53.760 you know, the review code. I wrote a little letter you Who knows 595 00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:57.840 if anybody read it, but I was like, I was like, I 596 00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.639 still want to go. Just please play side content, and I think I 597 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:02.719 think I added like a comment like this is some of my favorite stuff, 598 00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:07.679 because I was like, I really want people just to understand like we put 599 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:12.360 a lot of time effort to improve the storytelling and the creativity they went into 600 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:14.920 that stuff because we knew like that was something we definitely want to level up 601 00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:16.920 this time. And I'm glad from talking to a lot of people, it's 602 00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:20.360 definitely resonating with people. So it's going to hear the team did a great 603 00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:22.920 job. A couple of loose ends to tie up. First one returning to 604 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:27.519 the idea of the expectation and kind of like the scale of it. So 605 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:31.840 you've now got you know, you moved into two Spider Men, which was 606 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:36.360 a big task, and by the end of this game, my like not 607 00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:38.519 the thing I'm like, oh my god, I do not envy them is 608 00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:43.639 the amount of things that are now on the table. Because obviously there is 609 00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:46.880 the Doc Hawk stuff where he's like I'm writing the final chapter. There's Norman 610 00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:52.599 Osborne there's the stuff with you know, yeah, silk will come to that 611 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.199 later, but like the if you collect all the spider barts is like if 612 00:38:55.199 --> 00:39:00.239 Miguel comes around, do this. But then there's also clears, cassidy and 613 00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:07.760 cornage, like you're making sweat. Yeah, what does that kind of mean 614 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:12.840 for for like the next entry. Obviously you can't talk in length and we're 615 00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:15.679 assuming yeah, yeah, exactly. There's a lot of that stuff. And 616 00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:20.840 at some point, I guess the question is is this something that you expect 617 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:22.360 to come to a head in a meaningful way or is this like, right 618 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.880 now, we just want to make something that's memorable and interesting, so we 619 00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:30.440 will do this this Connage story not necessarily with payoff in mind. Or is 620 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.400 it a case of no, we're building to something like this is going to 621 00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:37.199 be a big thing that it all comes together, and can I answer yes 622 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.800 and no at the same time. It's kind of like, listen, we 623 00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:44.239 have a lot of pieces to play with if we want to write, and 624 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:50.800 I think that's exciting. It can be daunting. But you know I said 625 00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:52.760 this, I said this to somebody and by the way, Internet, please 626 00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:58.320 don't quote me. If I'm I Chris warn to remember like I'm an MCU 627 00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:00.000 junkie, like I read everything like I'm reading new book about them, and 628 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:04.719 like I'm just obsessed. I'm obsessed with obsessed with that. How like like 629 00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:07.760 to me like movies like if any war an endgame should never worked, and 630 00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:08.400 I'm like, how did they even make it work? I just don't want 631 00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:13.199 to believe it? Right? And I remember hearing something like Marvel they don't 632 00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:15.559 like they're not like, oh, we're gonna hold this back because like, 633 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:17.159 oh it might be too something later, Like we're gonna put everything in to 634 00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:22.039 make the best game possible, the best movie possible. Now, we'll deal 635 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:23.960 with it later. I'll deal with it later. It's about doing the best 636 00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:28.760 thing now. Am I gonna here and say like I don't think about the 637 00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:32.039 future if we have those possibilities, well, sure, and I think we 638 00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:37.239 I don't think we've painted ourselves into a corner. Will be challenging for some 639 00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:42.239 sure, guess what game development is challenging in other ways? So but I 640 00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:45.840 would rather have that challenge. I'd rather have that challenge. And you tell 641 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:46.599 me, I don't like Spider Man two. I don't want to see any 642 00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:50.599 more of these characters, these characters stink we're done. So I'll take I'll 643 00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:53.559 take that. I'll take that over the other. But listen, I'm forty 644 00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:57.800 six year olds old and I get to play with Marvel characters like I got, 645 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.679 I got a pretty good life. I'll we'll figure it out somewhere or 646 00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:02.039 another, if we have, if we if we can ability to Yeah, 647 00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:06.559 And I guess the funny thing returned to what Lucy mentioned earlier, was silk 648 00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:12.039 was that always in the plan? How much I loved that that storyline about 649 00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:15.920 the old day, Yeah, old credits and I was like, oh wait, 650 00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:20.199 we never got to see the day. I forgot that. If forgot 651 00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:25.199 that the Rios had a date planned and then when about the day, I 652 00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:30.079 was like, so I wish I could tell you, like, yeah, 653 00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:37.360 nine years ago I knew and Albert mooning be at that's that door I didn't. 654 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:45.320 I think we talked about expectations, and I think we talk about you 655 00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:47.199 know, I think some of the hardest things I I do it we do 656 00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:52.119 is like because there's Marble fans are so passionate, they're like they're they're like 657 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:54.599 they're expecting this, they they want this or they has to do this, 658 00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:58.480 and you're like, oh my god, they're they're guessing everything, like how 659 00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:00.840 do you surprise them in There's a little bit of that, right and I 660 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:09.719 but I do think that we we have an opportunity, if possible, to 661 00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:15.519 explore a character that hasn't been fully explored yet. And I'm excited about that. 662 00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:20.199 Nice, very excited to see. Yeah, and I'm sure people are 663 00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:22.360 asking, well, did you think of another character it could have been there? 664 00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:27.719 The answer is yes, but we want to do something maybe unexpected. 665 00:42:28.360 --> 00:42:32.880 Ben Riley, I can ask me. I'm a lot His outface is cool, 666 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.199 and I think, like every time it's weird because his outfit is in 667 00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:39.840 the game, but it feels wrong to put Peter in that outfit. So 668 00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:43.039 I never there right now, if I didn't have that suit in the game, 669 00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:47.079 that would be would be very prob. But yeah, I think like 670 00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:51.920 the for me, like I think the thing big takeaway for me is like 671 00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:54.719 before the game came out, I think I guessed most of the pieces to 672 00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:59.760 be like, oh, venom anti venom? This is who is anti venom? 673 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:02.039 I figured there needs to be like obviously because of Miles and this, 674 00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:07.559 I thought like, cool, that's likely. I didn't Yeah, but like 675 00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:12.639 every guest that I made, the way you guys got there wasn't exactly how 676 00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:15.119 it wasn't how I predicted. It was completely different route. So I was 677 00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:19.639 like, Okay, you took the things that I know and you turned them 678 00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:22.280 upside down. So even me, as someone who's been reading and experienced Spider 679 00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:27.239 Man since a kid, didn't see it coming good. So I think that's 680 00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.239 a kind of fantastic. I you know when I I mean, you all 681 00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:36.800 know Greg Miller exactly without his shirt both and I know, I remember when 682 00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:37.360 we're doing the first thing, He's like, well, I kind of like 683 00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:39.880 I was like, there's no surprises, and I was like, I was 684 00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:42.880 like, oh, so you thought we weren kill on Ma And he's like, 685 00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:45.320 well, no, I mean not that one. And I think, 686 00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:47.079 you know something we talk a lot about, you know, just in terms 687 00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:53.440 of like pr hyjen and how much you show before even the game comes out, 688 00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:57.119 Like you know, like I didn't want I didn't want to show anything, 689 00:43:57.119 --> 00:44:00.239 Like I didn't want to show a thing like I got. I was 690 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:02.760 having meetings like I don't want to show anything for that very reason, like 691 00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:07.280 I don't want you to go into the game thinking but the fact that also 692 00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:10.199 I have to be an adult and know we have to actually market the game, 693 00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:15.920 and uh and uh, but the fact that, yeah, I I 694 00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:19.719 there are Like I said, there are certain things we have we I feel 695 00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:22.199 like we need to do as being Marvel fans. But if we can do 696 00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:24.639 it in a way that still surprises you, is that's the best of both 697 00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:29.159 worlds. Well, I think you definitely did that. Thank you. Thank 698 00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:31.239 you for joining us on this and a great question. I forget we're even 699 00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:36.400 recording, so yeah, we want to talk. Yeah, but I appreciate 700 00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:38.960 it, thank you, And uh, I'm just happy to It's just fun 701 00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:42.239 to at this point, like you know, it's been a long time just 702 00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:45.199 being able to talk. And I mean even say the Harry is Venom like 703 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:50.119 I mean forever, honestly. I the one thing that I did get wrong 704 00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:52.559 is I thought Craven was going to get this India because I only did that 705 00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:55.239 because of the physical stature of them, Like I was like, you know, 706 00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:00.000 big Venom. We talked just I think briefly, though, I will 707 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:06.760 tell you we at one point had of venomize Sandman. Oh wow, It's 708 00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:09.199 just a concept. It was just a concept. He was gonna be venomized. 709 00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:14.239 And then I realized, oh, sand Man's could be hard on stone, 710 00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:15.960 but there's a concept image. I'm probably gonna be in trouble forre me 711 00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:21.360 staying, but it looked really in concept for him. It was really cool, 712 00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:23.800 like this is really great whatever, Like there's this great top down shot 713 00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:30.199 Miles charging up up like his evolved venom and he's looking down and you see 714 00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:32.760 this giant Sandman who's like a venom face. Oh, that's amazing. People 715 00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:37.199 are gonna I'm probably can get so much trouble. At least the game is 716 00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:42.440 good, right hey, but yeah, we talked about venomizing more people and 717 00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.480 stuff like that. For sure. The bit where the stone is shown, 718 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:49.039 my first thought was, oh, are they going to do the King in 719 00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:52.000 Black? And then that was like that seems way too crazy, Like you 720 00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:55.280 cannot have no luck? Knock. Did you expect the wings? I did 721 00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:59.360 not expect the wings. That was very cool. Yeah, I'm a big 722 00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:01.760 fan of Donny Kates and Ryan Stegman who brings them coming for all the time, 723 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:07.000 and that was that was my that. Yeah, it was very cool, 724 00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:12.599 especially when like he's quickly trying to get back to the the Collider and 725 00:46:12.679 --> 00:46:15.199 it just like pops out and he's gone. You're like, oh, this 726 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:19.679 is deadly. Now we can fly. They fly now, Brian, thank 727 00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:22.679 you so much for your time. Congrats on. Thank you for the many 728 00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:24.920 years of effort paying off, and we are super excited to see the next 729 00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:32.880 phase of Spider Man and also the other guy that you're working on it to 730 00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:36.639 be very good. We're very excited to see it. Thank you on again.