Welcome Friendsis the movie podcast podcasting time show JACKI again, Brian, they're talking
down Black. Welcome to a movie film commentary track. I am Zakison.
I'm here with Brian Hall. Hey. How's it going, Zachi? Brian?
Have you ever been afraid to go back in the water? I was
about to say something to that effect too, Just when you thought it was
safe to go back to the podcast, We are here to talk through Jaws
two, which was for a time the most successful sequel ever made for a
very long time, almost two decades. Actually, for a very brief time.
Oh sorry, sorry, yes, no, I was I was mixing
facts. I was mixing facts. This was in the top ten box office.
Yes, that's accurate all time, for like into the nineties, which
I was kind of shocked. That's correct. However, it was the most
successful sequel of all time until about a year later when Rocky two came out
yep, yep, which was then you served by Empire Strikes Back. Yeah,
and then and then after that we stopped counting. Yes, basically,
yeah, movie box office had changed forever quite drastically in the interim. But
yeah, so this year is the third No, sorry, it's the forty
fifth anniversary of Jaws two. Under that Brian drink that in what were you
doing when Jaws two came out? Brian? I was just of nineteen seventy
eight. What were you up to? I was just a twinkle in my
daddy's eye. There you go. So you were just a concept and ye
in search of completion. Yeah. So so, uh, this is a
movie that predates us and it's an It's an interesting film for me, certainly
because uh I I have long said I think it's entirely fine. I think
that Jaws two has the misfortune of being the sequel to Jaws, but I
think working more against it is it has the greater misfortune of being the prequel
to Jaws three and four. Yeah. Yeah. It almost feels like a
like a shift in direction, like this is a pivot. This is the
pivot, Like like if there was just Jaws one and two, you would
have this really great DVD two pack sitting on most people's shelves. You're totally
rudy. Yeah, yeah, so this is this is This was one when
I suggested to you for a commentary. I was like, I think we
could have a really fun conversation about it. So hopefully, hopefully I'm right.
I think so, I think so. I mean, this is one
I've this is only the second time I've ever watched it, so it's still
kind of newish to me. So it's it's kind of fun to go back
and not remember hardly anything and collect my thoughts. I was worried that me
trying to convince you to watch this was gonna I was gonna be like Martin
Brody trying to talk to you know, the city hall. That was my
word. Yeah, we get it on a ferry and one unbroken shot and
talk with the mayor and no, no, that's one movie ago, Brian,
I know, but you know what I'm bringing it over. It's too
strong. I don't know what's a reference from this one. Well, we're
gonna have a fun discussion, so if you want to watch along with us,
please take this opportunity to get your copy of Jaws too. Cute up.
I know, I know y'all got a copy of Jaws too, But
if not, hey, you know, we'll try to keep the conversation in
trusting and lively. But while you queue up, let's take a short break
and let our sponsors do their thing and we will be back right after this,
and we're back and ready to go. Brian, you queued up,
I'm ready to rock. Okay, So we are watching the one and only
cut of Jaws two and we will hit play on three. So one did
three play, and here we go one two, three play? All right,
Well, I guess we should note I'm starting a version that has the
It begins with the old school universal logo, and yours has both, right,
Yours has the new one and the old one. That's right. So
I queued it up just before the classic logo. Yeah, fade up underwater.
So this was a film. Now, it's it's worth remembering that at
the time Jaws two was made, the idea of doing a sequel without Steven
Spielberg was not, you know, blasphemous, right, because he what he
done. He done the duel, the TV movie, he'd done Sugarland Express,
and then Jaws was this surprise humong his hit. Right, that's right.
He hadn't done Close Encounters yet. Yeah, he begged off of Jaws
two so he could do close to it. Yeah. Yeah, they offered
him, I mean they did ask him, and he felt first of all,
the first film was kind of a miserable experience for him. Right,
but he Oh, by the way, the number two. That's the first
time ever a movie sequel had the number two in the title. Yeah,
I thought that was interesting. Yeah, not the Roman numeral. How I
learned Roman numerals from the Rocky movies, like much like. Yeah. So
they had asked Spielberg, and he he kind of felt like, well,
he he'd made his statement with the first one, and again that was not
a it was not a deal breaker situation because there was no reason to think
that audiences wouldn't show up for a sequel regardless of who directed it. And
they were in fact correct, because this was a massive hit when it came
out. Yeah, and he said in talking about the sequel, he said
that the planned plot, I don't know if this was from him, if
they wanted something from him, or was pitched to him. But oh,
by the way, here's our first ever member Barry in movies. I it's
exactly yes, Hey remember the Orc? Remember that boat you liked? Well?
Speaking of is, he said that the planned plot when he was asked
was the sons of Quint and Brody hunting a new shark, so kind of
it would have been set in like the the nineteen nineties or something. That's
a good point. Actually, it's like they're back to the future too,
where we get their idea of the future. They have their jet packs that
they use to outrace the sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads. Probably,
well, now, I'm sad we didn't get that now now. Richard
Zannik and David Brown were the producers of the first film, and they they
were sort of dragooned into doing the second, and I think I think they
were essentially told like, look, there's gonna be a sequel whe or without
you, and they were like, well, we don't. At the very
least, we want to take, you know, ownership of our own thing,
you know, right. And and it's kind of interesting because Jenno Swore,
who directed this film, h he I think he does a good job,
and I think he it helps that he's he's working within a sort of
a framework that is familiar, you know. So so a comparison I make
is like Superman two Distracted by by Richard Lester, where it still is similar
enough to what Dick Donner did with Superman the movie. Yeah, yeah,
where you've kind of feel like you're in the same place and and we'll talk
a little bit about what's work does. But but you know, the original
idea that uh, I think I think William Sackler had the idea of of
doing like, oh, let's do the USS Indianapolis movie. Yeah, yeah,
right, like the prequel, right, which I think they're still threatening
like now by the way, yeah, that feels familiar. Like I heard
that not long ago Joe Alvis would direct the third film. The production designer
No, but but yeah, so so I hope they don't do that.
I think it's a terrible idea. But yeah, the the studio and the
producers said no, I we think audiences will want to carry the Brody character
forward, and I think in terms of this film, I think that was
the correct choice. But I'm curious what do you think about that that decision,
UH, to say no, we want to we want to stay with
with Martin Brody and Amity, et cetera. Oh, I think that's one
the right direction. You know. Something that I thought was interesting was reading
that there was another director who had shot footage for this first that's right with
but it started with the town of Amity being sort of like boarded up.
You know. Yeah, after the events of the first film, I was
like, that's like a nice natural continuation. So yeah, I think I
would rather stay with the town. I think. I mean, you you
run the risk of getting repetitive, but that's right. I think I was
kind of impressed with thinking about the script of this where it isn't just repeating
beats like okay, like he gets another shark expert and then they go out
on a boat and they hunt it down. Like it's not like they're playing
the same beats. It's sort of like, as much as I can't say
that I really care about these kids characters, I think that's why I didn't.
I couldn't even really remember much about this movie having seen it once,
and it's because I remember it. I'm like, oh, yeah, it's
because these kids get trapped and I'm not really connected with them, you know.
But to that point, because I just popped this on the other day
and it had been a little while, but I definitely remember this moment right
here where Brody sit right here and I'm like, oh, it's them.
Hey, look it's them again. Yeah. Yeah, life continues, you
know, It's like, right, chicking back in and I again, I
thought that multiple times. I'm like, oh, they're not ticking the boxes,
you know, They're They're doing a different story in the same place with
the people we know, and I like, I appreciate that. Now.
Now that being said, the first Jaws is to me, and I'm sure
you would agree. It is a perfect movie. Yes, there is not
a hair out of place. This is a film that does have at least
a few plot points where you sort of you squint past it. What do
you mean? You know? Well, I think foremost among those is in
order to make this movie work, you have to believe that Amity is just
full of the just the most dumb assholes. Like Martin Brody killed your shark
the last time, and he's like, there is a shark again, and
they're doing the same freaking shit again. That that's pretty funny. That's a
good point. Yes, yeah, like you have to buy Like there's a
moment later in the film where he kind of has you know, he this
thing happens on the beach and it's like the whole town turned against him,
and I'm like, I don't know, man, maybe he gets one right,
Maybe he gets to be wrong this one time and you don't just you
know. Yeah. But that being said, I you know this film,
the fact that it is, you know, in broad strokes, you know,
it has a similar setups first film. One thing. I was talking
about this with my old kid yesterday. I was like, I was like
Jaws to me, it's like die Hard where you get one, you get
you get one where you have the character essentially be like, how can the
same shit happen the same guy too? So this is that one that's yeah,
yeah, that's hilarious. Yeah, Diehard too, where it's like,
yeah, but what's his line? He says something about that, Like I
think he literally says what I just said, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you know, I gotta say, going back to crediting the director and
keeping sort of the I don't know if I'd go so far as to say
the visual language, well, no, I will. I will say the
visual language like it's uh, it doesn't look like someone just plopped in and
tried to shoot like another movie that just happens to be Jaws too. I
mean, there's still like some style to this, Like there's that really impressive
shot where the band is playing and Brodie's entering the the whatever this is this
area with the pool, and I was like, oh, that's wow,
Like there's some there's some vision to this, you know, some scope and
style. And I think that helps it not just feel like some monster sharp
flick from the seventies, you know, like it feels a little elevated in
terms of its presentation. Yeah, and that that term elevated has sort of
become like a bad word, you know. And sure, but I mean,
you know, potential, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and the
interesting thing is that I certainly, as it pertains to the first film,
I've never considered it a horror film. Sure, yeah, yeah, I
considered it a thriller with some horror aspects to it. But but I think
this one slides more easily into that genre. Yeah, and you sort of
right here, you're talking about the kids, Like, here's a bunch of
kids. You're like, Okay, well, you know which ones of these
are gonna get picked off? But but that said, the one thought I
did have is they they do a decent enough job. I don't I can't
distinguish that guy on the right, by the way, tell me they didn't
cast somebody looks just like Steven Spielber, I know, yeah, right,
it's it feels like he just walked in and got the job based on that,
right, But I couldn't name these kids other than like Larry Junior and
you know, you know, miss miss Amity whatever her name is. Yeah.
Yeah, But but here here's my my thought is I'm not actively rooting
for any of them to die. And I consider that a good thing.
And I think, like you said, when there's not a hair out of
place with the first one, I think with this one, to its credit,
I mean, well, you have John Williams back, which is amazing,
and then you forgot I think it looks like it shot like a a
quote unquote good movie. Right. But the thing that doesn't work, and
I'm tracking with Brody and I'm feeling for him, is he's trying to convince
everybody you know, of the danger there. But I can't say that I
care about all the like the characters. I just didn't connect with them like
I do in the first one. Right, so other than the Brody's,
other than the Brody's yeah, even his kids, you know. And so
they are misadventures at the end I think are thrilling enough, but it's not
enough for me to like love this one. I think what you're saying is
actually quite relevant in that the films after this tried to be like, Okay,
now the further Adventures of Martin Brodie's kids, and nobody gave a crap.
See I've never even seen three and four. Yeah, I mean you're
fine, You're fine. Wait, so what happens so the kids from this
I know one involves like a theme park or something, right, yeah,
So the third one is, yeah, it's it's a it's a sea world
type place, and and Michael Brody is played by Dennis Quaid. Okay,
and the shark or not the shark. A shark shows up there and Shenanigan's
and Sue, and then the fourth one I believe ignores the third one,
oh, okay, and and that has Sean Brody is killed by a shark
and Michael and that one is played by Lance Guest from from The Last star
Fighter hmm. And and it's terrible. I mean, you know all the
stories about it, You're not you're not missing anything, and it really you
talk about like ruining a legacy, right right. It's kind of remarkable because
I believe the fourth one has a zero percent rating on Rotten Tomato. Wow,
And that's exactly Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think,
yeah, I haven't seen I haven't seen the fourth one the whole way through,
but I have seen the third one. The third one is bad,
but based on what people say about the fourth one, I think the fourth
the third one feels like Brian the Magnus and Amberson's compared to it. Well.
That that's where that legendary quote from Michael Kine comes from, right where
he's just like, they're like, why'd you do Jaws? Ford, He's
like, I've never seen it and all accounts it's a terrible movie, but
the house I bought with it is quite lovely, you know. Yeah,
He's like, I've seen the house that it bought me in. Yeah,
yeah, paraphrasing, but that's kind of the famous thing that I remember about
Jaws. For now. What's interesting is is Jeno Swark who stepped in after
John Hancock who I think it was John Hancock. I think that's the Yeah,
I think that's right after he tapped out uh Swark Again, he came
at it as like he stepped in late in the game. But he's like,
they basically came to him the producers, They're like, what would you
do. He's like, here's what I would do with Jaws two, based
you know, based on the script that they had, and and they hired
him almost immediately. And I think a lot of his instincts in terms of
how to depict the action sequence and stuff were pretty spot on. Actually,
I think I think the action sequences are some of the best parts of this
movie. I agree. I think it's h I think the shark has handled
really well in this Yes, yeah, I was. I was thinking that's
very interesting because obviously so much of what made the first movie work was just
the necessity of all the shark's not working and so we have to work around
it. And then that sort of created this mystique of like, oh,
you can't show the shark, and Zork was like, well, we've seen
the shark already, like we know, like you can't replicate that again.
Yeah, so all you can do is really like lean into it and find
new ways of depicting it, which I think he does well. I think
so too. He doesn't go over the top with it, and it's you
see it enough. I love like, at one point it gets kind of
a scar from an early accidentally, it's extinguishing, and so when you see
that, you're like, I don't know, there's just something sort of visceral
about that that connects you with it, like, oh, this thing is
a hunting machine and it's been hurt and it's dangerous and it's angry, you
know, but there's some still some clever sort of stuff we're seeing from its
point of view. You know, it doesn't go overboard. I don't feel
with it jumping out of the water, and I agree zationnannigans, which actually
they probably couldn't have pulled off. But yeah, and and well, and
the other thing is is the movie again, it does feel of a piece
with the first one, where we're not sort of ascribing sort of supernatural powers
supernatural intent. I mean, it's just a shark and and I think that's
smart. And that's where going back to what I was saying earlier, it's
like, I think you get one sequel m hm. The premise of the
first film allows for potentially one, and then after that you kind of have
to be like, okay, pencils down, uh, you know, collect
your winnings, you know, like yeah, yeah, you know, see
the cashier because because that's the problem, it doesn't allow for a franchise that
just stretches into the sunset, which obviously the studio figured out too late,
right. I I was, you know, we were talking about Psycho two
earlier in this week, and and I do find it amusing that, you
know, uh, there was there was a when Psycho two was announced.
You had filmmakers, including Jeno's Swark was like, man, why would you
make a sequel to Psycho? You know? And and and this was after
he had made Jaws, too, right, And I was like, That's
what's funny to me, is like that that tells you where where this movie
existed in time where the idea of a Spielberg Liss Jaws was not you know,
like yeah, you know, yeah, you're treading on hollowed ground.
It's just like, hey, it's this popular movie, let's make another one.
Let's make it. Why not? Apparently wasn't there some other business between
Hancock and the suits where I guess they wanted Ellen Brody to be a bigger
character because the rain Gary was dating Sid Sheinberg the universe, Yeah, I
mean, or she was married to him at the time. Oh yeah,
yeah, yeah, and yeah, in in Hancock's version, Ellen Brodie's role
was lessened, right, and and that was something that they wanted to bump
up. The other thing is is, yeah, there was a whole there
was a storyline in the novel right about the Mob, about about Larry Vaughan,
the mayor, you know, being tied in with the mob and stuff,
and they resurrected that for the movie for the sequel. And and again
I think Hancock's idea of a darker movie, like nowadays we're like, well,
a darker sequel. It's a darker number two. That's what you do.
Yeah, isn't it right? But but that's us, that's our post
empire strikes back brain m m. You know, yeah, I guess this,
by the way, what we're looking at here where there're this guy's I
don't know, parasailing and I don't know what you'd call it, but that's
his Hancock's footage. Yeah, there's there's a few bits and pieces of Hancocks
that made it in, but a lot of his casting was redone. It's
interesting because because Zwark was much more about preserving sort of the general ethos of
Spielberg more than Hancock wanted to. I think Hancock wanted to sort of shake
up the etches sketch a little bit. I mean, even in terms of
bringing in the the the actor who plays the Deputy Hendricks right right, because
as originally written, he wasn't in it. He's in the first one,
and and he was like, well, why don't we bring him back?
Right? And I don't know about you, but I'm like, yeah,
no, I liked him in the first one. Yeah, same. I
mean, he just brings makes the world seem that much more real, right
where you have familiar you know. Yeah. Yeah, this whole idea of
the kids on Amity sort of having like it's like hot rod culture but with
boats. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of clever. I think so too.
You know. I actually wondered. I was like, oh, is
this what it's like? You know, sort of like a Dawson's Creek kind
of thing where it's like these kids who live there just all have boats.
Like it's just so far from anything, I know, you know, just
kind of we all go out on our boats and we kind of sail beside
one another. Whether that's real or not, I don't know, but it
works for this movie. It makes sense and gets them out on the water.
And it feels like a contrivance for the film, but I buy it
within the world that they've created. Yeah, same. Now this is kind
of from the poster, right, this woman water skiing. Yes, that's
right. Yeah, I was thinking, I have you ever been water skiing?
I have not, although I went to tubing once and it was miserable
for all seconds. Yeah. Now, I've not done it myself, but
I've watched people do it who are very good on the water and seen how
difficult it is. And so I was kind of admiring this woman here,
like it's one thing to be good at being champion water skier. Oh oh,
well, there it is, I was gonna say, because she looks
so confident and to like have to do this on film too, you know
what I mean, like get it right, hit the marks and all that.
I was really impressed. So Tina over there, played by Anne Duson
Berry. She obviously this is probably the most prominent role she ever had.
She did continue acting somewhat, but I found it interesting. She's married to
a composer, Brad Fiedel, he of the Terminator score. Wow that is
yeah, huh, just one of those things you can't make up. Yeah.
Right, that's really impressive, isn't it. The choreography here, like
the staging or the blocking of the shot is what I'm trying to say.
Like where you have her on the water skis and then from the side angle
especially and then the shark fin rising in the foreground in frame. I mean
that just feels hard to pull off. Yeah, and I my understanding is
a lot of these shots sort of obviously relied on a lot of timing and
sometimes just good luck, you know, almost by accident. You ended up
with some really memorable shots. Now, now that said, one thing that
bugs me is that we never see the tail fin of the shark. We
only see the dorsal fin. Hmmm. That's funny. And like, well
they I mean they have multiple Like if you're swimming, if it's a shark,
like you're gonna see both, you know, you know what. Never
in my life as that crossed my mind, and like that's just one of
those things where movies, it's like movies, it just looks cooler to see
one that is true. Oh boy, here we go again, the handle
skidaddling across the water empty. Yeah, so now this woman. Right here,
we're about to see possibly one of the dumbest people in any horror movie
ever. I think when I first watched this, this did sort of color
my take for the rest of the movie, where I was like, oh,
so this Jaws one, it ain't. I was a little it went
easier on it the second time, kind of appreciated it for what it was.
So so the woman who was driving the boat that the water skier was
on, she's like, hey, what's going on? And then and then
the shark comes back for seconds and and her reaction is is somewhat bit fuddling,
and I was thinking about it. I was like, I have to
imagine that something got like lost between conception and execution. Yeah, yeah,
right, because because you know, I mean, we're about to see it
where she's freaking out about the shark and then and then you know, naturally
her reaction is all, let me pick up this gas tank and pour it
on top of me. It made it's just yeah, like you said,
execution, I think the execution is not great because yes, it's like she's
getting hysterical, understandably, but then she picks up this gas can to throw
it at it. I don't know, but it's leaking gas all over herself
and then she immediately picks up a flare gun and then in a comical,
overblown explosion, just like I think we were saying before we got on mic
where it feels like a family guy moment of like, yes, hysterical person
like accidentally doubts himself in gasoline and blows himself up. Like it just feels
that old lady by the way I was, I was. I was hoping
she'd be like a Missus Deagle character. Yes, damn, she'd have some
ironic come up and by the shark, you know, right right, serves
them right, you know, like skiing in front of my proper tie,
you know right. But nope, Nope, she's she's quite sweet. Yeah,
I know this is degal by the way, I should say the woman
from Gremlins. Oh, I was hoping that the shark would like its Finn,
would bat her automatic wheelchair and then she'd you know, ramp into the
ocean or something, you know, by the way, that that was one
of the things. I went on the Warner Brothers tour several months ago and
they show you that house. I was like, wow, that's where she
flew out the window. Wow, no kidding. Yeah, you know the
town, you know, Kingston Falls, which is also used for Hill Valley.
Yeah, that's also Brian, That's that's the town in Psycho too.
Yeah, yeah, I noticed that. It's pretty cool. So so Roy
Scheider, we got to mention we talked right past. Roy Scheider did not
want to be in this movie. And and I should say the late great
Roy Scheider. One one consistent thing I've seen about Roy Scheider's career is how
often he did not want to be part of the thing that he was in.
Way to elaborate on that, what else I get something? Well,
he was cast in The Deer Hunter, right, and and he he didn't
didn't want to be in it, you know, it was having disagreements with
Michael Chumino. So he was replaced by Robert de Niro, who my understanding
is did all right, right, right, But but him walking off Deer
Hunter was actually what ended up landing him in Jaws two. Although you know,
again the script it was developed with the intention of carrying the Brody characters
forward, but essentially Universe was like, look, you owe us a movie,
so you're going to do this, But you know. Years later,
he starred on the television series Sea Quest for two seasons. Yeah, and
he was pretty much miserable the whole time until finally, you know, he's
like, no, I don't want to do this, and I'm like Roy
Scheider walked off of just as many things as he stayed on. You know,
that's so interesting. I wonder what his principles were. Well, I
think when it came to Jaws, I would have to imagine again it was
not a pleasant experience. The other thing is is he probably had a little
bit of like Chuck heston Planet of the Apes, feeling like we've already told
the story. M sure, sure, right, and because remembers, I
mean, Heston had the clout too when it came to the second and be
like, all right, well I'll just do the beginning and end as a
favorite to you, right mm hm. With By the way, here's here's
Chekhov's power cable. Yes, I wonder if that's gonna have some significance later.
It's so random, you know, because they're they're dragging the ocean,
I guess, and uh yeah, then they accidentally hooked this power cable.
And I remember I've seen this movie before. I did not remember how this
movie ended, but I was like, I know that, how's that going
to come up? How's that going to come into play later? It's so
funny? Yeah, so so so Scheider. Again, contractually he sort of
forced to do the movie, so he already doesn't want to be there.
And then, uh, I think the other factor was he just did not
get along with the director. Yeah. I was reading about this like really
very a lot of blow ups, a lot of fights. Yeah. And
it's interesting because after the film came out his work was very complimentary of Shier.
He's like, we got into it, but he ultimately gave a really
great performance, and I think he said that having the film be a success
under his belt, right, So it's kind of like, well, all's
well, that ends well. But Shider, I don't think he ever came
around on this movie. I don't think he ever enjoyed having been a part
of it, and certainly he was sort of amused at, you know,
where the series ended up going. But but my point with all of that
is, notwithstanding the personal issues and whatever, you can't watch this movie and
tell me Schider did not want to be there. No, No, he's
he feels like the same character from the first movie. Yeah, I mean
he really, it's consistent, and he's he's there to he's there to act,
you know. Yeah, he's not phoning it in. And I think
Brody gets stuff to do in this that feels like a natural progression from where
we left off. I was thinking about that. I was like, you
know, there's a scene later where he has to sort of go into the
water to retrieve something, and I I was thinking about, how, yeah,
because he's not afraid of going into the water anymore. Like we haven't
wound the clock back, is my point, you know, yeah, yeah,
yeah, And you know there's also a scene where he gets a little
hysterical at the beach and I was like, this is a good scene.
This is a great idea, I agree, you know, or the scene
too well, we'll get to it. But where this here, by the
way, that that the the the killer Whale there, that's a little nod
to the movie Orca right, which which that that movie that that was a
Dino Delrientus hack job, trying to cash in on Jaws, because of course
that's what Dino de larent just did. But that movie starts with the killer
whale killing a great white shark. That's so funny. So this is this
is sort of like the war between the Jesus fish and the Darwin fish that
was played out on the on the bumpers of America during the nineties. It's
so funny, right, right, right, And so then here we got
an Orca with killed by shark bites. Yeah. If they had made Orca
too, that would have started with the killer whale, uh shooting a machine
gun at a shark. Yeah, and Jaws three would have had a rocket
launcher. We just kept going back and forth, right, and you know
what, now that you're saying it, I wish we had give me a
shark versus killer whale team, like a like a Godzilla versus Kong type mm
hmm. Yeah, let's make that happen. You know what was sort of
bothering me during this this not really, but when they're measuring it and he
takes it to the tip of the nose, but he's like not doing the
length that he's kind of like winding it over it, which is adding extra
inches to it. I was like, it's like, I don't know how
you would act. And I started I stopped listening and started thinking about how
you would accurately measure this tip to them so stupid this here where he's talking
to her about you know, the fact that he thinks it's a shark,
and you know again it I kind of like that that it's a progression of
what he's learned, uh from Hooper mm hmm. And then I don't know
about you, but she says car carrot in Carcarrius and I'm like, hey,
I know that that phrase right right yep. Now, now, Richard
Dreyfus was originally supposed to, or rather I should say his character was supposed
to come back. As conceived, Hooper would have returned. Dreyfus of course
went on to make he was making close encounters, so he was unavailable,
and I was thinking about that. I was like, while rewatching, I
was like, obviously I would have liked to say Hooper back. But on
on the on the you know, pluses and minuses of not having Hooper,
I think it helps distinguish this movie number one and number two. It it
kind of puts the onus more on Brody mm hmm to solve the problem.
And I you know, so it kind of like when we look at it
like, yeah, I mean obviously we like Hooper, would like to see
him back, but I don't think the movie suffers for his absence. Yeah,
no, I agree. I think I think everything with Brody is pretty
good, like yeah, like his progression and what he's learned and his fee
Like you understand why he is understandably like really really freaking out because he's had
a face to face encounter with this thing. He knows what it's capable of,
and so you can can see why he gets so concerned later, Like
I yeah, I think all his stuff I think is pretty good. Yeah.
I think the other stuff is fine too. I just don't can with
it in a way that I wonder if Spielberg had done it and executed it
and casted it, that I might feel a little more connected with all of
it. But I think that is the problem, right because the first film,
by virtue of it being Brodie's story, Yeah, the arc is woven
through him. So by virtue of here's Alex Kintner, he dies, that
spurs Brody into action. Blah blah blah blah, it's you know, the
culmination where it's you know, the third act is just three of them on
the water. I mean, I think that works because we're invested in all
three of those characters, right, And so yeah, to your point,
the movie throughout is like cutting away to be like, hey, and here's
like this douchebag, and here's Jarry Curl and here's you know, and it's
like, again, I just to be clear, like I I'm not rooting
for any of them to die, no, but yeah, I can't tell
you their names, you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's something.
Yeah, there's something that someone like Spielberg or not just him, but
you know, a good filmmaker would like really made us identify with at least
one of them. Yeah, you know, and I don't really track with
any of them. But to your point, though, when you go watch
certain movies and you're like, eh, well, I'm here to watch five
teenagers get killed, you know what I mean, Like that's the point of
this horror film. But like with this one, you know, later one
of them does get eaten at the end, and I was like, oh,
not her, you know, like I felt really bad. Yeah.
So I mean I think that's to the movie's credit that we're never rooting for
anyone to get eaten, right, Like it doesn't turn into like kids just
being fodder that we're rooting for the shark, like we're I was always rooting
for the kids to escape it, exactly, and I think that's really crucial,
honestly. Yeah. Yeah, and that's I mean, this is more
of a horror movie than the first film, but by the standards of the
types of horror movies that were being made at the time, it is pretty
tame. I mean, yeah, this is the same year as Halloween,
right, seventeen was seventy nine, I think, right, was it seventy
eight? I'm not sure. I'm not. I mean it's it's thereabouts for
sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is seventy eight, you're right.
Yeah, so you get the whole slasher thing and Halloween, I mean
really got that ball rolling. Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean,
it wasn't the first, but that's where I think it really kind of
kicked off. Yeah. See see this scene here. I think it's interesting
because I think, so we have Brody trying to convince Mayr Vaughan again,
you know about like, yeah, it might be a shark, and I'm
like, yeah, but he's been like they've both been through this, right,
and and so to me, I think, I think Murray Hamilton does
something interesting where he feels like much more of a broken man in this one.
He's sort of beaten down, and I wonder how much of that is.
You know, Murray Hamilton, at the time they were filming the movie,
he was dealing with sort of you know, personal issues because his wife
was sick and yeah, you know that those really were it really said,
yeah, And so maybe we see some of that in his performance. But
I'm like, why not, why not make Mayor Vaughan Brody's ally. I
was just going to pitch that to you because you have the council, and
that's fine if the council doesn't quite get it, but like, it feels
like it would be interesting if he was conflicted. Brody is one hundred percent
on this side, the council is one hundred percent on the other side,
and you put him in the middle, like no, yeah, no,
I know, I was there, you know, like, what is what
does he do? Maybe he had to get trimmed down because of the things,
you know, he could be there for. I don't know, well,
I mean there's definitely stuff of his that got left out. And I'll
talk about it when we get there. But but I mean in the first
film, it's that really great moment remember where after the Kintner attack, where
where Larry's like, you know, Martin, my kid was out there,
you know, Yeah, when he's got that and he's trying to like that
cigarette and he's at the hospital. Yeah, it's a terrific one. It's
a Spielberg wonner, you know. And and to me, I'm like,
well, you're not the same guy after that moment, and so it's kind
of frustrating that they kind of just put him back in that role. And
and you know, it's like a famous meme, right, like the Mayor
and Jaws is the same Mayor and Jaws too, you know, vote your
local elections, right, And it's unfortunate because I think there's an opportunity there
to make his character a little bit more more nuanced. Agreed. Yeah,
yeah, Yeah, here's that scene you were talking about. The Yeah,
I was like, he, I mean, he's he's not so much hesitant
about going back in the water. He's he's trying to catch the thing.
And I was like, again, yeah, because he used to be afraid
of the water, he's not anymore. Yeah, yeah. I mean I
was kind of relating to what I feel like his body language is doing,
which is, I don't really want to get all wet. Yeah, but
yeah he doesn't. I don't see fear. Right. Well, now after
this, he'll be afraid to go back in the water. Now, yes,
right, this is a pretty good jump scare. Actually, I've seen
the movie and I forgot about this me too. Yeah. Yeah, you
can you imagine that just like a wave just dropping that on top of you.
No, that crispy critter. Yeah, that'll haunt you. You know.
It'd be kind of funny though, as if like the coroner was examining
her and he's like, well, I think what happened was she saw she
saw the shark, irrationally grabbed a gas can, poured it all over her
head, and blew herself up. Like he's really, he's he's really,
he's the best quarter. I love this though. I love this is like
I've seen this monster, I know what it's capable of, and now I'm
going to go to the the stream here to prevent this from happening again.
And I love that he's a little private about it. He covers it up
right, he doesn't right, Yeah, the other guy to see it,
and and the other guy's like, what what did you just cover up in
there? Like I think this is all great. Yeah, this is good
stuff. And it feels different. That's what I'm saying about being a sequel,
Like this feels we're continuing the story. I don't remember a scene quite
like this in the original, Like this is good original stuff. It's you
know, I mean, this is that's the dilemma with sequels in general,
which is that balancing act of how much do we repeat, how much do
we mix it up? And what are what what what what combination of those
ingredients to audiences want and there's no one size fits all, right, And
you know, for example, you know, you look at something like Ghostbusters
Too, which you know you've commented like, I mean it it's so and
it's repeating so many of the beats from the first film, and it does
that thing where people sort of turn on them. And I was confused because
I was like, don't you remember when you were cheering for them like two
years ago because they saved the city. Yeah, it's hard and there's some
of that here. Yeah. Yeah, I want to point out to people
who just sorry, real quick for people who aren't watching along. What I'm
talking about is we see Brody after he knows, like what's happened. There's
a shark. He takes these holow tip bullets and he's putting poison and and
he's going to like, I am, there's no way this thing's getting away
from me. I like the little bit about you know, the very opening
scenes set up that camera, and that's sort of like we as the audience,
are like, come on, come on, develop the film, like
uh huh, yep, that'll make your case. Yeah, come on now.
Jenno's work before directing Jaws, he had directed episodes of Night Gallery,
and he went on to do Somewhere in Time, the Christopher Reeve Jane Seymour
romance, which I've never seen. Yeah, it is beloved by many,
but I am not among those many. Ah okay. He also did Supergirl
in nineteen eighty four, which I have not seen, wich Is, which
is beloved by nobody. And he also did Santa Claus the Movie in nineteen
eighty five. That's again I have not seen, so I am not a
connoisseur of him, but that is a total video store like I've seen that
box so many times, right, Like, I don't know why that one
always stood out to me. Santa Claus the movie, but I never saw.
Yeah, at this point, he's a very prolific television director. So
even up to now, I mean he Criminal Minds and Gray's Anatomy and yeah,
I mean he's still working. I know he did several small Ville episodes.
Wow, okay, yeah, so so he at least found a groove
there. But I mean, certainly at the time, I mean, he
he got to claim credit for the most successful sequel of all time, which
that was a short lived record admittedly, but hey, you know, but
stick it in your in your hat or whatever, that nothing, whatever the
metaphor is. You know, it's kind of I wouldn't say laughing, but
just sort of noticing the video game that they're playing. Like, you know,
just this past week, Spider Man two came out on PlayStation and you
can, like I can like find where my wife's you know, family's apartment.
Is that that game is so detailed in New York, Like you can
literally find like places the streets make sense. It's insane the scope of that
game. And then you're looking at the kids playing the game there where just
like four squares bouncing around the screen and you're like, at the time,
that was like, this is the most fun I've ever had, you know,
it is so funny. And that's just what it was, man.
Yeah, yeah, and it probably was fun. I was. I was
telling my class about Atari games. Yeah, and I might as well have
been, you know, just like a man from Pluto the way it was
just I was like, yeah, you had like this square and that square,
and you know there's like a little square you tried to get in between
those other big squares and that was a game. The hell. Yeah,
that's so funny. You know. When I was watching this, I was
like, that water ski or not the water ski v like jet ski or
whatever that guy's on. I was like, huh, what was the jet
ski invented? Like it looks like sort of an early version of it.
And it turns out that I guess the first time it was like a prototype
of the jet ski was first used on screen and the spy loved me a
year later or earlier. Wow, okay, so it was like brand new.
It was like brand new. Yeah, So like the prototype for that
thing was in a year earlier in the James Bondfield just a year earlier.
Yeah, yeah, I remember it in The Spy Who Loved Me. I
didn't realize that was a prototype for it though. Yeah. So the Yeah,
the character that Ellen Brody works for, who's played by Joe Muscolo.
He's kind of meant to be like a romantic rival for her. That's fine.
I did not pick up on that at all. Yeah, exactly right,
And I think that's kind of a problem, Yeah, because because there's
sort of this element of like Brody being jealous of him, and and there's
some stuff cut out where like Brody gives him a ticket even though he didn't
really need to, and stuff like that. And I think the problem there
is you don't like Ellen Brody is very clearly devoted to Martin, right,
and so that subplot doesn't make sense. If you have that subplot, one
of them has to look bad then yep, either either Martin or Ellen.
Yeah, you know, and I realize you want to give her some business.
But like I liked it, they are a unit, that's right.
Yeah, Yeah, I mean I like later on where yeah, it's the
two of them together that go on the water and you know, they find
you know, after the shark attack later, you know, m hm,
see this whole thing where Brody is up there, He's not doing anything,
He's just up there keeping an eye out. And the way these guys are
shipping their pants over it. I was just about to bring this up,
and I was like, maybe I even missed something, But I was like,
yeah, he's just in a lookout tower, just keeping an eye on
things of his job, you know, like and everyone is like they're that
bastard. Yeah, like I told him, you know, like what won't
people think? I'm like, I don't know, I don't think I think
anything. Yeah, it's very funny, like if he had like some sort
of harpoon that he was like squinting through a scope and pointing out at the
ocean, like maybe I'd feel like you look like a crazy person, right.
See again, Like that, that to me is like a fundamental flaw
in the story construction. Where again, where you're not talking about a shark
attack like fifty years ago. It was three years ago. You know that
that Alex Kintner was eaten alive. It's not that long ago. And this
is an opportunity to have the mayor sort of like in an awkward place between
you know, the two camps. You know, it's like, well,
you know, he's not hurting anybody, and just let him do the thing
it's like, and then the other guy could be like, it's not a
good look, Mayor. Yeah, you know like that that would be some
good business. Yeah. And I think you know, the the Joseph Muscolo
character, if you have him representing a power that sort of outranks Mayor Vaughan,
you know where where he's powerless to to stop that, you know,
yep, yep, Yeah, I think that that would have been good.
But the I agree, Yeah, no, I was. I was gonna
say, I think it's a nice juxtaposition of you know what we're sort of
you know, the the Alex Kintner seen in the first one. That's what
we're used to, and so you think this is going to be something in
that vein Yep, yep, And it's you can appreciate how he feels.
I mean, we've seen seen this shark shaped shadow in the water. We
know what he's been through, and then but he he goes I don't know
if I want to call it too well, I guess he does go too
far because he starts before actually seeing anything. He like fires his weapon.
That's right, but you you understand where he's coming from, and you also
feel the embarrassment, you know, like of how he's being perceived by these
people who don't quite know what's going on, aren't in his head. And
I just, yeah, I feel like this is a great moment for this
character. And and the I mean, the the panic he's evincing is real.
But since there isn't any context of a shark attack specifically that people are
aware of, it's just yeah, the crazy guy shooting at the water.
Yeah, I mean in that shot is pretty good there where we see the
weapon pointed at the ocean, but there's still a person in frame like yeah,
that's yeah, point your weapon, yeah yeah. And then wet bluefish.
He's bluefish, Brian guy. But it's like a sweet moment. You
know, we have that moment in the first movie very Spielberger. He likes
people sort of mimicking other people's motions. Right yere, he's folding his hands
and you got the sun folding his hands and they mimic making faces at one
another. And in this one, I I like, I don't feel like
it's it's copying it. I feel like it's another sweet moment. Oh he
picks up the casings. Yep, yeah, no, that that was a
nice moment. I agree. It reminded me of that that piece in the
first film. I agree. Now, look at the way that everybody's so
mad. I wish there was like one kid who like who has like a
Martin Brodie doll, and they're just like so disappointed. They just like leave
it on the ground and they just walk away, like, Oh, I'm
just gonna say, is he is he loyal or is he disheartened? Like
he disheartened, Like he's like, no, I believed in you, Yeah,
you were my hero, Blody, Now I don't believe in anything.
Go right there. It just glared at him. She like she throws away
her Brody doll. Meanwhile, Ellen is going off to screw that guy and
me, I guess, not being very observant, didn't pick up on the
movie trying to make me feel that at all. It's right, yeah,
this this right here, right and then and then his son comes. I
mean it's it's it's it is a nice moment. Yeah yeah, And I
mean you talking to too, Schider showing up for this, even though he
didn't want to be there too. I mean, look at the way he's
so like embarrassed and still having to do his end. But I love how
he how he looks at his son like I don't know, it's just it's
just a really nice moment. Yeah he needs it. That that actor who
plays Sean by the Mark Gilpen. I just read that he he just died
like a few months ago as were recording this. Oh uh you know,
he's like fifty three. You know, wow, I said, what does
that saying? Yeah, plaque on his desk, but I had like a
little smaller sort of Jaws preserved skeleton. Well, I wouldn't want to face
my boss after this, after awkward and a crowded beach. Yeah. Yeah,
they needed like a the Amity Register or something like that newspaper. And
it's like gun toting madman, you know, a picture of him like waving
the gun around, you know, yeah, yeah, him putting that down
on his desk, like uh yeah, but yeah, But like I was
saying, though, I feel like the movie makes me believe that he would
do that, but you can also appreciate how that would appear to everyone else,
you know, right right. Yeah. See, Now I'm curious,
like, what is your history with this this film Jaws too, because I
mean you you probably saw the first one like when you were a kid,
right, yeah. My grandpa showed it to me when I think it was
like early junior high. I was visiting and there's some cousins over and you
know, the adults are altogether, and he was like, I think he
had taped it off of TV and was like, here, you'll enjoy this,
and I did, but and he just left you alone as you're yeah.
Yeah, but that was the first time I saw it, and I
remember like enjoying it, but it wasn't one of those movies I went back
to a lot. I think I revisited it in like early college ish okay,
once you became a bona fide film nerd yes, yeah, kind of,
you know, like knowing that this was like one of those hallowed movies,
and so I was like, oh, I should I should watch that
again. And I think I did see it through a different lens, you
know, the way that I was beginning to watch movies. How about yourself,
Yeah, I so, I you know, they showed the first two
movies on television in Satdi Arabia when I was living there, and by chance,
I happened to be out of town when they showed the first one,
but I was there when they showed the second one, so I actually saw
the second one first, okay, uh. And you know, I saw
it and I thought it was fine and and and it must have been just
edited to within an inch of its life, because I don't know how you
would have had like all the all the all the kissing and the bikinis and
stuff in that Saday TV that. So I just in hindsight, i'm thinking
about that. I'm like, it was probably like thirty seven minutes long,
you know, but I you know, I thought it was fine, and
and I didn't end up watching Jaws until later for sure. H and and
I only say that because, like, you know, I probably in the
DVD era now that I think about it. I watched one and two together
and I revisited too, not with like, oh it was such a great
movie, like I had an affinity for it from when I was a kid.
It wasn't like that, but I watched I was like, no,
this is good, like the second one, and and I felt confident in
that, you know, where I've said what I said earlier, Like I
think if it was just one and two and nothing else, then you'd have
this, like even now thought what's thought of as a pretty good you know,
two pack or like a digital bundle on Voodoo or whatever. I just
Jaws one and two. You know. I think you're so right, because
I think I was sort of tainted with that with all the sequels, you
know, just thinking, oh, well, there's one classic in the rest
are just these cash grabs? Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean kind of
what we were saying about Psycho Too. I think I think if it was
just Psycho Too, you'd have, you know, two well regarded movies,
you know, hm, not as good. The first one is still better,
but now it's a pretty decent one, you know. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, they found some interesting things to mine, to continue mining.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know, And and and I think,
you know, it's unfortunate that the yeah, they really did sort of pee
in the pool with the with the third and fourth ones. Where where now
the notion, I mean, when you think about it, Marty's reaction in
Back to the Future Too is a reflection of what those sequels were thought of
as, right, and oh oh yes, right, yeah, I forget
I would the shark still looks fake. Well, the shark doesn't look fake
in this one. That's the joke, right, Jaws nineteen exactly. They
never stopped. They never they will never stop making those Yeah, yeah,
exactly, yeah, this see this real quick, like you know, Murray
Hamilton, uh he you know, he they had to he had his wife
had like a health scare. So he ended up being like he told the
producers like, look, I gotta I gotta go, right, and they
very generously, well, let's just will you let us shoot all of your
remaining stuff in the next two days, And they pulled everybody back and they
were able to do that, and I'm glad they did that, and I'm
but I do wonder like did his character have more to do later in the
movie, because he's like, this is the last time we see Mayor Vaughn
in this film, right right, and you know there's this is this is
one of the frustrations. There is a deleted part of this sequence where they
show the vote and they show that Mayor Vaughn is the only one who sides
with Brodie. Oh I love that, right, that's sort of speaking to
what I was talking about earlier. I mean, that's so it is,
it was there. I I kind of can't believe that they didn't keep that.
That feels really important. Yeah, I don't know why they cut it
out because I can't imagine it would have impacted the pacing that much, but
it would have added this dimensionality to Mayor Vaughn you know, yep, yeah,
and yeah, I mean he he died not too long after this movie
came out, maybe five six years later. Murray Hamilton, I mean,
yeah, he's so good, just the looks he's given Brody in there,
you know, sitting, Yeah, even his sort of song like hey this
is a private meeting, you know, it's just so good. Yeah,
it's I mean, there is like a sadness there, and I I feel
like it would have been beneficial to show that, well, Vaughan and Brody
kind of went through this thing together and they are joined by that experience,
but the movie doesn't delve too much into that unfortunately. Yeah. I would
have loved just just at least having that one deleted scene that you were talking
about I think was, yeah, like he's a dimensionality. I mean,
it just would have added that much more to it. I do think it's
interesting that, you know, his son, Larry Junior is one of the
characters, and I did appreciate that they didn't make his son like Moider.
Yeah, that's a good point. That feels very eighties. I guess maybe
like like set him up as a douchebag and have him get killed by the
shark. I actually appreciate that they steered away from that. You know what,
whoever was making films in the eighties probably saw this and was like,
you know what, the only sour note in this movie. They should have
had his son this douchebag. Yeah. No, but I agree, I
like that too. Just feels too cliche. I mean, he's the only
kid I can think of by name right really other than you know, like
you know, Tina or whatever. But like, I do feel like there
was an opportunity to have some kind of relationship between Larry Junior and Michael Brodie.
Yeah, just just just as a way of like just adding some character
texture, you know. I think, Yeah, that goes back to what
we were saying earlier, like there's nothing for me to latch onto with these
kids, so like if you give them some sort of like at least one
or two of them some sort of hook. Then I think the whole peril
of the last act would hit a little harder, right, Yeah, I
agree with that. Yeah yeah. I like the little bit here about Jeff
the deputy like being like, look, I don't want your job. Yeah
yeah, how loyal he is to him. And it's funny because then later
at the end when he's taking over the boat and he's just yelling at the
deputy like I was like, hey man, this guy's like on your pal,
like he thinks you're the greatest chief. Come on, Yeah, you're
talking to him like some sort of I don't know, we'll do it ordinate
yeah, trunk, trunk Brody. Now you know we're talking about how how
Dreyfuss didn't do this one because he was off making he was making close encounters.
You know. That kind of reminds me of how, you know,
Roy Scheider is in the French Connection the first one, but he's not in
the second one because he was off making Jaws. Oh funny. So it's
just like franchise musical Chairs, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
but it's like you're glad that all those exist. Yeah, well, French
Connection too, I was actually thinking as like, that's a good example of
like, you know, it's like a sequel that I think is generally thought
of as pretty okay, right, and they stopped there. I think that
kind of helps. Hmmm. You know, I don't know if I've seen
two French Connection, You've seen the first one, right, Yeah, French
Connection two is like it is like textbook. It's okay, Like I don't
think you need it. John Frankenheimer directed it. Yeah, And if you
liked Gene Hackman as Pop Bye Doyle, here's another pop by Doyle. You
know. But they didn't like Dirty Harry, that bitch, you know what
I mean, they didn't just right right, right right, you know,
it's just like no, it's just these two movies. And I think it's
totally fine, you know. Yeah. I like by the way, this
picture that he has as evidence that he got from the camera at the beginning
of the movie. I like that it's clearly to him and to us we're
like, oh, yeah, that's a shark. But it's obscure enough that
if you think you're talking to some someone who's hysterical, that's right. Look,
man, like I don't know what I'm looking at Yeah, this is
not enough. This is not enough for me. I think I like that.
I think it'd be funnier if it was like a Crystal Clear like iPhone
fourteen. Obviously it's a perfect, quickly framed shot of a shark, yeah,
from from from from you know, stem to stern, all contained within
the frame. And they're like, I'm just not seeing it. Yeah,
I don't know what am I looking at. It's like, are you crazy?
I would love that? Well, you know, you know after this,
you know, Xanak and Brown, they wanted to do Jaws three people
zero, Yeah, which was going to be like an airplane type y,
right, that's right. They were like, at this point, there's nothing
but parody, So why not like own that too? You know what do
you think about that? I mean, obviously you don't want to like stain
the ones that came before it by just poking fun at them. Yeah,
but like maybe there's some something to that, right, It's like, look,
there's nowhere else to go here but to laugh, So yeah, why
not? Like like a airplane was what nineteen eighty I think that one.
The first one was in the seventies. Airplane was not in the seventies.
That was a eighties movie, the first one. Yeah, I'm fairly certain
it was in the seventies. There's a sequel that was early eighties. The
sequel was like eighty four, let's see Airplane, Oh eighty you're right,
Yeah, Okay, that sounds right. So my thought is they probably x
Anakin Brown probably saw the success of Airplane. Yeah, and based on that,
we're like, why don't we do this? And they were basically told
by the studio, you know, don't shit where you eat kind of thing,
you know. Yeah, And and I think, well, objectively,
they were proven right in that there was nowhere else to go. Mm hmm,
right, because because you know, three and four are are essentially unintentional
parodies. Yeah, right, right, So what's to lose? Maybe that's
just me with you know whatever, forty plus years of hindsight looking at it.
But I mean, don't you think, like, well, why not?
What the hell? Like? Yeah, I mean that's how I feel.
But I again, I mean I also understand that you don't want to
like damage the integrity of like if you start parrooting specific things from the first
ones, then you may run the risk of people never looking at those movies
the same way. Oh yeah, okay, that's kind of a good point.
I don't know. I can see it both ways, honestly, Yeah,
I can see the wisdom in it. I can see why it could
be a good idea, at least, I don't know if it's worth it.
Well, at least they made two more after this. That's all I
have to say, you know. Yeah, Well it's funny that you say,
though, then they became accidental comedy, so yeah, I mean,
I mean, it's that's pretty much right, Like it's it's neither of the
latter films even touch forget the first one. They don't even touch this one,
you know, I know, And that's kind of like, man,
talk about just immolating your brand, right. I wait, now, who
is the woman or girl? I guess who is taking the younger brother.
I don't remember her from the start of the movie. She's like, yeah,
no, she's the one. She's one of them, honestly, Like,
I know who she is. But I couldn't pick these characters out of
a lineup. Yeah I couldn't either, I mean except for you know,
this kid kind of looks like Napoleon Dynamite and like, yeah, and and
and Napoleon over here earlier in the movies, like I want, I asked,
gouddad girl whatever, and we're supposed to care even a little bit.
I know none of this stuff works. Yeah, they're interplay, but but
yeah, I was confused because she struck me the person who takes the younger
brother on her boat. She struck me as a little older than all of
them. I don't know why, Like she just came across as more mature,
and so I was like, wait, is she with them or is
she just another person who's taking a boat out and they know her? Like
I I was kind of confused. And she's so sweet that she's going to
take the brother out by herself, you know, and like not go out
with her friends. I think I was confused. Well, in the in
that vein, Brian, I kind of I did like that, you know,
Michael sort of like forced to take Sean. But it's not like hey,
why did you bring your dumb brother? You know, yeah, they
all like they look after him, which I actually really liked. Yeah,
yeah, I wonder I don't know if they even put this much thought into
it, but like sort of small town, it's like, well, yeah,
we all know each other, you know. Plus he's the chief's son,
so you probably don't want to. Yeah, that's true, that's true.
But yeah, this is this is what I remembered most when we were
going to revisit this, just that the the third actor revolved around these kids
being trapped on the water, and I just didn't connect with it. Yeah.
I think that's you know, like we were talking about earlier, I
mean with the first film. By by this point in the first film,
where you know this it's the quest now you know it's it's it's the three
the three amigos, you know, And and that's the fun of it is
seeing these three men get bonded together on this experience and who couldn't be more
different exactly, but bond yep. Yeah, I mean it's it's really meaningful
when you know they're singing, you know, they're they're doing their sing along.
And then when Quint has his monologue about the Indianapolis and stuff and and
and that that makes it matter when Quin dies and and I think in this
film it's it is a little bit like you have to imagine that the writers
are like, all right, who can we kill off? Sure? Yeah,
yeah, right, And I'm sure some of the thinking was like,
well, we don't want to know, we don't want to kill off that
person because we like them, we don't and so you're left with like,
okay, well, I guess it's you know, pick the kid, right,
yeah? Yeah, or or the woman who Brian doesn't understand. But
and she was the one I was like really upset over. I was like,
no, she's so nice, right, that's right. I was so
sad. Yeah, I mean you wonder if they would have considered killing off
Brody in this I yeah, well I was gonna say when you were talking
about who to pick off, I mean, you don't want to do one
of his kids. That feels a little yeah, too close to home or
something, but yeah, him saving his kids, I could see a version
of that. I mean, given what the films ended up retroactively doing to
his character, which is just freaking bullshit and it pisses me off. Wait
what they're like, Oh, like in between movies, Brody died of a
heart attack because he was terrified of another sharkcoming. I'm like, okay,
so just like undermine everything that was accomplished in the first two movies. Then
dude, that is ridiculous. I didn't know that. Yeah, Like,
I mean, it's one thing to have him die, but like, oh,
he died because he was scared of another shark, Like dude, he
screw you, Like yeah, I mean seriously, you know. And by
the way, like this is I'm not somebody who like a bad sequel will
ruin a previous movie for me, I know some people like that. I'm
just like, well, I just ignore it. It doesn't exist in my
dojo. And it's not like I need to watch Jaws the Revenge in order
to get my complete Jaws experience, you know. But definitely, yeah,
like, okay, you know, Roy Scheider's one hundred percent out. There's
like a million different ways to write out his character without again actively undermining what
the first two movies are explicitly about, which is him overcoming his fear.
Yeah you know, yeah, or like I don't know, how many times
can you put up with a town that gives you so much crap? You
know? Like yeah, yeah, I mean I guess you don't want him
abandoning people that could use his help, but you find some a little more
heroic. But well, in the context of of you know, at least
the third film. I mean, it's you know, Ellen Brody. Oh.
And that's the other thing, right because because suddenly Lorraine Gary's the main
character, is a problem right there, and it's like her, you know,
she's forming a relationship with Michael Kaine's character, and nobody wants to see
that, you know, like, you know, so all these real baffling
choices. And it's very funny because early in the film, remember when when
Brody is talking to that woman who was sent to sort of look at the
damage to the orca the killer whale, I mean, and and he's like,
well, you know, I've heard that, you know, sharks maybe
they communicate telepathically, and you know, maybe this one was called by what
happened before, you know, And she says, sharks don't take things personally,
mister Brody, And and in other words, the movie is itself dispelling
that. But they actually follow through on that and the fourth one by giving
by by saying, oh, somehow the you know, the Jaws family has
like a grudge against the Brody family. This is like the Hatfields and the
McCoy's. Yeah, they have like a dart board with Brody's picture on it.
You know it is, you know. Yeah, Now, in the
novelization of this movie, which was based more on the earlier draft, the
Hancock version, they say that the shark is a female and it's the mate
of the one from the earlier film. Oh that's interesting. Wait, so
it's based on an earlier version than what we Yes, the novelization is based
on an earlier draft. So yeah, that that includes the idea of Amity
being kind of, you know, a town on the outs, and you
know, I believe it does include the mafia subplot and all that. Oh
wow, And I have no idea how good of a novelization. It's not
it's not by Benchley. I know that, but you know, I I
think that aspect of like, oh, and it's the mate, and I
don't think you need that, honestly, I think I think I think the
first movie buys you the license of somehow another shark ended up here. Yeah,
it makes sense to me. It happened once, it can happen again
again. You do the same thing a third time. You got a problem,
but you get two. That must be weird for Benchley. Right,
you have this big bestseller, Yeah, and it gets turned into a movie
and then like a sequel comes out and then someone's like, I'm gonna write
the sequel to your book, Like, oh, okay, you know that
is weird. Yeah, right, because like like David Morrell who wrote First
Blood, he did all the novels, the novelizations for the sequels. Did
he sort of like Game of Thrones, you know, like did he do
continue what he wanted or did he then just go all right, well that's
what the movie is. And I'll transcribe that to to not he Yeah,
no, so he well because because in First Blood he killed off Rambo at
the end of the book, right, mm hmmm. And so he didn't
do like a Michael Crichton. I don't if you remember, like Michael Crichton
in the Lost World novel he because in the Jurassic Park novel Ian Malcolm dies,
right, and then in the Lost World he's like, oh, actually
I didn't die because something they kind of contrive a reason he's alive. I
think David Morrell just treated his novelizations as sequels to the movie, okay,
and just went that way with it. Yeah, but yeah, that's always
the dilemma, right, Like what it's like, you know, the the
movie is the more well known thing, and so at that point the original
novelist sort of let's go of it. You know, Yeah, that's got
to be hard. Yeah, that would be hard. Yeah. So I
just look, I just pulled up the novelization. It's the cover says based
on the screenplay by Howard Sackler and Dorothy Tristan, Orthy Tristan being the wife
of John D. Hancock, and it says inspired by Peter Benchley's Jaws.
So at the very least Benchley got some coin from that. I was gonna
say, yeah, it's nice to get some royalties. I guess why not
is that the I don't know what parts of a ship, but the the
pole holding the sale? Is that the thing that's the boat that gets stuck
that keeps them from getting over to that island. I was noticing that the
camera was like, look at this pole. Oh I didn't. I didn't
pay attention to that, to be honest, it looks to me now having
just watched this last night, it was sort of like, yeah, yeah,
you're not foreshad. But setting up seating, I suppose you could say
seating there you go. Yeah, So this after Gary Dubin, he could
not swim. Oh no, and so his terror one it imagines is incredibly
real. He did. You know, it's funny. I noticed him last
night. I was paying attention to him swimming, and I was thinking about
actors. You know, in a movie, it's like, all right,
he swims over thrashing through waves to a boat, you know, but it's
another thing in real life to be in the ocean, having to swim as
scripted on camera. You know. I was kind of impressed, like,
oh, he looks like a good swimmer. So that's funny. Specifically that
guy that I was admiring his swimming right here. Yeah, wow, that
would be scary. So he too. He passed away as well. Twenty
sixteen, My gosh, bone cancer. A lot of these yeah, it's
yeah. I mean it feels like a disproportionate number of these, these kids,
you know, the kids in this movie. I mean, yeah,
that's good. I like to fin going below the water, like, oh
boy, I mean, yeah, you said it earlier. I mean all
the I keep harping on this. I don't mean to do that, but
like where I just don't connect with these characters. But like the execution of
all this stuff is pretty good. You said that earlier, but yeah,
yeah, I think I think a Z works approach to the shark stuff all
works. The it's kind of interesting. There's there's like a POV kind of
thing where you're not from underwater, but like from above where you see the
shark heading towards the boat. If it's not in this sequence, it's one
of this this year. And the way he got that shot it's pretty crazy.
They were like trying to come up with a rig or something like that,
and then they basically, you know the model that they had with like
the fin the model shark. They basically got a somebody to ride the shark
model with us. They put a saddle on it, huh, and they
just pulled the model along in the water. And so you have somebody with
a handheld camera just going through. And I'm like, that's like pretty you
know, the old school, but it gets the job done. You know.
I think it's some clever new visuals for this. I mean, you
know, we've you can only show a fin ominously so off and yeah,
I thought it was good. Well, and that piece right there where Eddie
he's trying to get back in and then he gets pulled back under and he
pulls the wood off. Yeah, like you talk about instant shorthand of like
the force with which the shark is pulling him underwater. Yeah, yeah,
it's good stuff. She's really good too. I mean I like the the
how they calibrated her fear and you know, reaction to all this stuff.
Like later we get into some there's one character who is just like screaming,
Like if I was Brody, I'd be like, yeah, please, you
are not helping. Buta's reaction to Tina's good. Yeah, yeah, I
agree with you. Yeah, and actually I want to you know, we
were talking about Lorraine Gary and I was kind of like poking fun at her
being the lead and Jaws to Revenge, and I still think that's stupid.
But I think she is good in this movie. And I think we were
talking about earlier, like the the the way she plays off of Schier like
in this sequence and was I think it's done well. You know, yeah,
I agree. I agree. They do feel like a couple that supports
one another and another and I like that. Yeah, yeah, he knows
what's up, you know. It's what's interesting also is that you know Jaws
comes out in nineteen seventy five, and obviously it redefines what we think of
as a as a successful movie. I mean, it events the phrase blockbuster
nineteen seventy seven, Star Wars comes out, and that, you know,
my understanding is that one did okay. When Jaws two comes out, how
is it perceived in a post Star Wars world? That is a really good
question. I mean, it did well, it did well, but is
it like but it? I mean it did well. With an asterisk,
right, it cost twice as much to make and it made half as much.
That's true. I mean I think it had the biggest It set a
record for the biggest opening weekend, sure, which is quaint now. It
was nine million dollars worldwide. Worldwide it did one hundred and eighty million.
Five nights at Freddy's made thirty million yesterday in a yeah yeah alone, yeah
exactly, no, But worldwide it did one hundred and eighty seven million.
Two. Jaws one worldwide did just about half a billion. So yes,
quite a drop, but still a lot of people showed up, right,
And and bear in mind, I mean, yeah, the expectation during that
era was that a sequel will always do less than the first one. Sure,
you know, and and it's only in recent memory that that that has
kind of changed. But at the time this was not a flop. It
again, objectively, it did very well. But yeah, I mean,
you know, it's it's sort of like you have something that is popular and
then a new thing comes in, and then we revisit that older thing,
like is it thought of as oh that thing, is it passe? That's
true, I mean this is real world terror, right, and then you
have Star Wars, which is fantastical and ships and lasers and everything. And
then and then even Spielberg he's he's shifting that direction where it's like, yeah,
we're on Earth, but what if the fantastical visits Earth? Right?
And then you look at the eighties, and the eighties is all about fantasy,
even on you know, grounded like Back to the Future. You know,
it takes place on planet Earth, but it's fantastical. And you know
et is on Earth, but it's fantastical. It's I wonder, yeah,
if like Star Wars, then well, I don't wonder. I mean,
it's true like Star Wars did just put people's imaginations into overdrive about the fantastical.
So yeah, I wonder if kids, you know, I was thinking
about with the whole third act with the kids here, if that was like
a real calculated like, this is what's going to get teens to for sure
come see this movie if they see fellow teens battling a shark. And so
it seems like it did well, but not as well as the first one.
So yeah, I wonder if kids imaginations had shifted to the stars.
Yeah, yeah, because because certainly the late seventies saw a rapid shift in
that direction post Star Wars. You know, you get Superman and you know,
Black Hole, etc. But you know, I mean again, it
that whole obviously, that's like kind of generally even though some of the stuff
preceded us, that's that's the era in which we grew up, so that
stuff feels more connected to me. But like it was all kind of brand
new, right, Like we're talking about a year later Rocky two comes out
and it's just a mammoth hit. Yeah, so there was there was an
appetite for those types of things, you know, sure, yeah huh yeah,
So I'm thinking in my mind, but I should be saying it out
loud because this is a podcast, But I mean that's sort of no,
actually, I want to hear your thought first. No, I think that
the thought I have is like Jaws should not have been the monster hit that
it was. It just so happened to be this amazing alchemy. But if
you objectively look at Jaws and you say that's going to be the number one
movie of all time, I mean that seems odd, don't you think?
Sure? Yeah, right now? Now see, I think her perform Orman's
here. It's funny because some people mock it, but I actually think the
way she's like, I think it works for me. I don't know.
No, I love this, That's what I'm saying. I really like her.
It's the other well, I guess this shark thing is kind of could
be kind of like funny, but but no, her her, she's like
shaken, she's haunted. I like it. It's it's when people start getting
shrieky later where I'm like, you're like, all right, shut the hell
up, or I'm going to shove you in the water. Yeah, yeah,
well you know, but she's doing her job. I'm sure she was
asked to. I was thinking about this last night, like this actress was
told to do this, she did it. But I think the director put
a little too much of it or lingered on it a little too long,
and it starts to get almost like comical, where it's like that woman an
airplane where you want to shake her a little bit and be like, God's
right. But Tina here, I think is doing I like it. I
this hits for me. And this is funny too. I mean, this
is where you leave your other characters like all right by like this is my
movie's right, which I guess is kind of an argument right that they had,
right Sheinberg wanted her to go with. Yeah, and and thank goodness
he lost that argument. Yeah, I think just it, you know,
makes sense economy wise. Yeah, I mean, I mean again, we're
talking about differentiating it from the first one, making making making it. Brodie
has to has to do this on his own, Yeah, because you kind
of wonder, like, what what was Hooper's role in the initial you know,
because they had to rewrite it without Hooper, you know, and they
kind of do the thing like, oh, Hooper is you know, off
off on a boat somewhere or whatever. Yeah. But and you know what's
funny is we we talked about this before. I remember when we talked when
we did the Lost World and how you know it focuses on on Ian Malcolm
And I said, it's that's the equivalent of doing Jaws too about Matt Hooper,
and I said it Then I say, now I would still watch that
movie. Like if if you were going to do a Jaws three, that's
the Jaws three you should have done. Yeah. I agree, different setting
character. You know, we know he's been through something and how we see
him react now, yeah, yeah, And I think people would have turned
up for that. So I think they really miscalculated the notion of like,
oh, Roy Scheider's got none of the actors are the same, but oh
boy, them Brody's mm hmm, them Brody boys. You know. Yeah,
you know, I know this movie's forty five years old. Jaws is
even older. But I'm still really impressed with the mechanical shark. Yeah,
just how they're able to like in real ocean water. I mean, how
are they some sort of rig below ground making it move the way the way
they it does. I it just feels like a headache. Yeah, and
they were having a lot of the same issues because the shark, for you
know, there are a couple of different models, but uh, the one
you know, the the robot shark that they built was built on the chassis
of the one the Bruce you know, from the first one, and kind
of same issues. And and yet despite that, I think there's there's enough
of a difference in the staging and some of these sequences. Actually this thing
here with Mike and how they're trying to get them out of the water,
I really like that. The in terms of attention. Yeah, again,
the the what I going back to what I was saying earlier, are they
avoid some of the tropes of like your Camp Crystal Lake type movies where the
kids are just douchebags. Yeah, Yeah, that's a good point. I
like that. The Yeah, going back to what you're saying about the Mayor
Son too, It's like sometimes in a movie, Oh, we were talking
about this with in the Line of Fire, where it's like you have those
hunters, yes, who are set up to be killed, so you've got
to give them some sort of trait where you're like, yeah, I don't
really like that guy, And I kind of appreciate that they didn't do that.
There's something a little more because then in that way we might be rooting
to see, well, we can let that kid get eaten exactly. But
that's not what these movies are. It's like, we don't want anyone to
get eaten. Yeah, I mean we always talk about right, like how
much like Lee Fierro makes Missus Kentner feel like a real person. Yeah,
yeah, right, and we feel her grief. I mean, you know,
almost fifty years later, we still watch that sequence and it makes your
heart ache, you know, yep, and again because it's just a little
boy didn't ask for it. And so that sense of if it tips over
into wanting characters to become shark food, you sort of lose sight of what
makes a story like this effective. Mm hmmmm hm. This the Marge,
the one who's with Sean. That's the one who who gets picked off later.
And that's kind of interesting. I mean it is antithetical, like you're
saying to like these Friday the Thirteenth movies where it's like the nicest person gets
picked off, you know, like yeah, like she didn't commit any sin,
you know, like she's not mean to anyone. And and I really
I didn't remember at all that she got eaten, and last night I was
like really sad. I was like, no, not her, Well,
this whole bit here where they're trying to tie the tugs together and do all
that. I mean again, going back to what you were talking about earlier,
right, yeah, well they got boat culture here. These are people
who are familiar with the ocean they you know, and it's a unique way
of ramping up the tension. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah,
it's unique. It's I mean, you got to give them that, Like,
that's what I'm saying, Like they didn't try to replicate set pieces but
change one component, you know, like this is this is a different movie,
and I kind of appreciate that. That is always the challenge, right,
Like again, it's going back to what we were saying, right,
Like, like Gremlins two, which is my understanding, is a pretty polarizing
sequel. I never thought of it as a polarizing sequel because what I liked
about it growing up was like, man, it's totally different. Yeah,
you know, and and when you think about it, like another Gremlins two
in Kingston Falls, like you know, I mean, maybe I am you
could have made it work. I'm sure. Yeah, it's just another chance
to do the same thing but go bigger. And it's like, well,
you may as well, try something different, try something different, right,
and and you know it's the same thing back to Future Too. Right,
It's that. I mean, you know they had those conversations how much of
it do we keep? How much? What do what are the beats we
play again? What don't we? I mean because because Back to the Future
Too is like it's like an algorithmically decided. You know, they went in
and tried to try to come up with an equation for that movie. Yeah,
this percent, knew this percent, same, this percent repeat. You
know. Well, it's funny because the original script was almost a repeat of
the first movie, you know, where it's like Marty goes back to the
sixties when his parents are dating and once again has to get them back together.
And you know, you can understand why that was considered because that does
feel like, okay, well let's take the things people like from the first
one. But I love how what we ended up with. I mean,
it's a wacky idea, right where we do get a whole different plot at
the beginning, but that plot screws up the first movie, so you have
to fix the first movie. I mean, it's pretty ingenious and I think
how many times in the past five years alone, have we said, oh,
oh, it's like back to the future too, Like so many movies
lately have been sort of, you know, inspired by that idea in their
secres. Yeah, right, you know the Avengers Endgame and I remember Happy
Death Day to even like calls it out like, wow, we're just living
back to the future too, you know, like, yeah, I mean
I I think that. Oh. By the way, this the helicopter sequence.
I love this. It's it's original, it's different. Yeah, I
love it. Yeah, I agree. He's got like the Gary Kurtz beard
going on too, which I was like, when was that ever something that
someone like looked at themselves and went, yeah, this will do and that's
the ticket. Yeah, it's kind of an interesting basically for people can't see
it. It's like it's a beard, but the mustache part is shaved off,
so it's just sort of like a chin strap. I guess you'd say
it's like an Abe Lincoln kind of thing. Yeah. Actually, you know,
he really rocked that, didn't he, Uh Lincoln? He wrote Lincoln.
Yeah, I mean he really did, because I don't think I've seen
it on anyone else and thought nice, but but Lincoln, Lincoln I'm like,
yeah, no, he looks he looks good. And by extension,
Daniel day Lewis, Yes, yeah. Now Worth Mansion and Siskel and Ebert
were not big fans of this movie. What did they say? They just
they said, oh, it's just nonsense, you know, you know,
And I can actually appreciate that take on this. But I think with forty
five years and seeing what sequels have too often become, I think I can
look at this with a historical, you know, appreciation and go, oh,
well, at least they tried something different. And I do think,
like I said earlier, I think it's it's good filmmaking, you know,
like maybe the characters don't hit like the first one and whatnot, but like
it's it's at least they try, you know well. And and I I
think that, especially during that that period, it's to me what struck me
is like they at that point right away recognize that the first Jaws is this
really impressive movie, right Like, that's not a movie that sort of came
into its reputation. It pretty much came out and everybody who's like, this
is one of the greatest movies ever made, right right, And and that's
a reputation that has stuck, which is pretty remarkable and you think about it,
yeah these years later, Yeah, I think so. But but like
a sequence like this, well we don't. Again, we're talking about something
different from the first film. There's nothing like that. And and yet I
love the tension here because as a viewer you're like, well, something's going
to happen. Yeah, You're like, there's half an hour left, and
and the way in which to me this is like you know when the t
Rex is about to show up in Jurassic Park and you're like, turn the
light off, turn the light off, you know, yeah, because the
blades start spinning whatever, and it's like it's drawn to the rhythmic right the
It's like a sandworm from Dune basic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well
this is great. Look at that. I mean, the helicopters pulled under,
the blades come off, I mean, it's goddamn terrifying. Well,
and it's cool too, because the yeah, the blades are are are then
now broken and flinging at the kids and ruining their sails. Like it's like
the danger of the entire situation is really uh well realized. Yeah, I
mean you almost wish like they would have had somebody get taken out by one
of those those blades. Yeah, are injured or something like get like a
yeah, shrapnel in their leg. Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, that's
yeah. I agree, that would have been good. I guess that was
a real helicopter pilot too, and he did the whole stunt with the thing
going underwater, and they just gave him an oxygen tank and said a little
prayer and said action. Well. I love that they came up with this
idea like, oh, we got to have the shark like pull a helicopter
underwater. Yeah, and then they had to sort of reverse engineer a story
reason and a real world application like how would that work? How how do
we end up with a helicopter getting pulled underwater? You know? Yeah?
And they did it in the way we were like, no, that tracks,
you know yeah, yeah, And you're right. I mean the tension's
really good because it's compelling, Like I was wondering what he's going to do.
So it's like, oh, well, they attach a rope and he's
just gonna Wow, he's gonna pull them. Interesting And so you see every
step of it, throwing the rope, attaching the rope, turning the key
and it really yeah, and you know, something bad's gonna happen. And
yeah, I don't know about you, but I'm like, come on,
come on, come on, come on. Yeah, yeah, let's go
now. Definitely watching this, you know, with Sean and just this trauma
that he's dealing with. I can't help but think of that cute little boy
in the first movie, h and be like, man, that kid's in
for some serious therapy, you know, like yeah, in terms of the
character, you know, it's a cute little boy and he's doing the little
thing with his hands and stuff. And then you're like, one movie later,
he like several near death experiences. I know, I know. And
is he the one that becomes Dennis Quaid. No, that's Michael okay,
but Sean. Sean dies in the fourth one. Mm. Fun. But
again, like I told you, we're by the fourth one, we're in
like the the into the Jaws verse because that the fourth one ignores the third
one. Oh I don't know. So this is not a recent phenomenon of
sequels ignoring prior sequels. Yeah, yeah, it's been going on for a
while. Yeah. Well, and then sadly, my my person just died.
The person who was nice. I can't keep track of all the names,
but yeah, the boys, I think her name was Marge, Marge,
Marge, Martha Marg swa Tech. I'm curious if she did anything else
other than this movie, just because we're sort of tracking the careers of these
Jaws two kids. Yeah, well she's still around. It says, yeah,
she's you know, she occasionally shows up for like the Hollywood Show and
does you know signings and stuff. Great, perfect, Yeah, I'm looking,
I'm looking at a think. It says this is from twenty seventeen.
It says, Martha Swattech, best known for a role in Jaws two,
will be appearing in person at the Hollywood Show, so you can, you
know, meet her and get autographs. And I was thinking, like,
I think that's nice that, like you have this person who you know,
she did this role in this one movie, and you know, forty years
later people want to come and talk to her about that one movie. Shot.
Like, I think, I think that's nice. Personally, I one
hundred percent agree. And I feel I don't know a lot about those shows,
but I feel like I'm seeing more of them, or at least noticing
more people in my orbit attending them, and I love that. I love
that there's this opportunity for these people to, like you say, I mean,
they still get to go out and connect with the people real quick,
real quck. Hold on. When he's like yelling at him, were you
like, dude, relax, dude. Yes, he's like yelling and swearing
at this poor little kid, and I was just like, I sort of
get he's he's he's sort of doing like a tough love thing, like he's
trying exactly. You get that later, yes, but I was just like
I would not respond to that personally. I like, I don't want to
go on the boat with that guy. He's like, I'm gonna break your
ass. It's like he's a little kid. Dude. Yeah. It's funny
because then when the kid gets over there, he's like, oh, you're
safe now, and he's like kissing his head like moleman, you know.
And I was just like, I was like, huh, I had that
exactly action. Anyway, Sorry, you're talking about the Hollywood sh I'm glad
you brought that up because I was thinking that last night. But I think
the kid's doing a good job by the way his acting. You know it
makes sense. I mean he's traumatized. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But
no, no, no, I'm just saying that I love that there's the
opportunity for the actors and it's like nice income. They still get to,
you know, profit off of something they did that people still love. I
think it's cool. Yeah, I think I mentioned you know, a couple
of years ago, I was at the Silicon Valley Cohn and Tony Dow who
has now passed away, but Tony Dow and Jerry Mathers were there. Wow,
it'd be surreal to me. Yeah. Well, and it was like,
you know, there wasn't like a huge line. There were a few
people talking to them. And on the one hand, you're like, it's
kind of sad that there'sn't a big line, But then they're like, well
why would there be, right as time marches on? Yeah, right,
but there's still people there, right, So like that's that was my thought,
Like just turning it around. It's like, you know, however,
many decades later, there's still people who are interested to talk to you.
You know, nobody's lining up to talk to me. I know that s
so, you know, I think that's that's just nice to be able to
have that ability. You know. Yeah, if I met Tony Dow,
I'd be like, could you say to me stop giving me the business?
If I met Tony Dow, I'd be like, can you tell me the
secret of overcoming death? That would be my question. It was because he's
gone, he's not surrounding oh right right. I was like maybe some b
horror movie he was in or something that clearly clearly you've mastered. You always
to say that, like, come on, beef, stop giving me the
business. Stop giving me the business. Yeah, I didn't. This moment
like her her little prayer, and we get the kids like this this shot
here, then we can cut to this wide shot where they're all like it
looks very hopeless. Yeah, you know, and just well they got this
jury rigged kind of thing together and things aren't looking good well, and and
the the whole power Juncture Island thing as a plot conceit, I think it's
effective, but also just the on a behind the scenes level, the work
that went into creating that thing. Yeah, as bananas, I was reading
about how excuse me, like it was like all these different pieces of you
know, fabricated material put together and they had to be anchored to the bottom,
and I'm like, what an absolute nightmare because apparently they didn't anchor it
properly and half of it just started floating out to Cuba or whatever. Because
this is like Florida where they were shooting all this stuff, right right,
I'm like, what a nightmare? Cheese you know, yeah, you would
have no idea. I mean it looks real to me. Yeah, yeah,
I think so. But I mean just think about the executing all of
this. I mean, I think about this. We know how hard it
was on Spielberg with the first one, but I mean you've got all these
kids and they're on like four or five different boats, and they need to
be a certain distance from each other, but then they pull themselves toward one
another really quick. Hold on this moment here again. I actually really like
this moment where it's you know, Brody, he's understanding everything that's happened.
He knows Sean is there, and how the son is like I'm sorry,
right yeah, and he's like, no, no, it's fine, right,
and it's this great like family moment, and it really solidifies the kind
of father Brody is. I'm glad you pointed that out because that stuck out
to me last night too. It's funny you're pointing out all the things that
I remember stopping and thinking about in my mind because I appreciated that is like
a father moment, like you're saying, you know, or it's like,
yeah, look, we're in the thick of this. There's no point in
being like, how dare you sneak out? You know? Yes, exactly.
Like the kid is apologetic, but he's just like it's fine, like
let's go like, let's let's let's fix this. Yeah, exactly. Love
that. Yeah. So again, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
No, but I mean just the the technical aspect of like all these
boats and they're in the water and they're far apart, so the kids pull
them together. But then you go cut and you have to reset it,
not do the rope and pull the boats back on a certain distance, get
them in the frame of the camera, and you have real waves, you
know, knocking you about. I mean, this just feels exhausting executing all
this. It's impressive. I think it is. Yeah, and and uh,
this work has the misfortune of not being Steven Spielberg. Uh and yet
I think objectively, you say he did a good job of pulling the all
together, I think so. Yeah, yeah, I means as a whole
piece. Obviously it's not the masterpiece that the first one is, and that
sounded like it was a nightmare to execute, even for for Spielberg. But
in this one, I mean you you really have to admire. I mean,
I think it's all the story stuff for me that I'm sort of like
hit or miss on. But it's the execution I think feels like a thought
out movie. I agree with that. Yeah. So the the the actor
who plays that, that Steven Spielberg looking guy, Keith Gordon is his name,
And yeah, he went on to become a director, oh up to
and you know, just the last few years, like he's directed episodes of
Fargo, the TV show Fargo. Oh those are great. Yeah, better
call Saul. He did he did Legion, the TV Homeland. He's directed,
so he's doing all right, Keith go so he's got like those are
all show that I would say, you know, you actually think about how
great the direction is, So that's amazing. Yeah, exactly, Yeah,
I wonder I would love to see it behind the scenes image of this and
see how far away from land they are. Oh, that's a good point.
I mean they do a good good job of you know, you can
point a camera in one direction and see nothing but horizon and you're like,
oh, they're out there in the middle of nowhere. But I mean,
how far did they have to be shuttled out? You know, You've got
like you say, you got this fake island out there, Like how big
is the rig beneath it connecting to whatever it's connected to? Yeah, kind
of curious to see all. Now, this was all shot off of the
coast of Florida versus the first film, which is all off of Martha's vineyard,
right, and so I wonder if that helped in terms of the sort
of the topography of the region. Yeah, I wonder. I know that
they shot this during like winter, yeah I read that. Yeah, Like
they shot through like up to Christmas basically, and so they were like the
actors were putting ice ice in their mouth so that they wouldn't breathe, Like
you couldn't see them breathing the you know, when you breathe out what do
you call it? When you see the just see your breath, Yeah,
the frosty seeing the frost coming in her Yeah, Yeah, you know,
that's such a funny trick. My friend who's an ad she was telling me
about that, like shooting shows and you know, late into the night and
they have to put ice cubes and the actors have to put ice cubes in
their mouth for that. It's wild to me that it's just such a funny,
low fi trick, you know, right. So Roy Scheider really like
Tanning, didn't he? Yeah, yeah, that's what I hear. He's
got this sort of leathery complexion even back then. Yeah, I mean,
I yeah, that's you hear those stories where he's kind of obsessed with it.
But I saw recently, I mentioned on the show, but I saw
The Shark Is Broken, this play on Broadway that was written by Ian Shaw.
Turns out the only thing broken is Richard Dreyfus's heart. Yeah well yeah,
I mean, well yeah. Robert Shaw's son co wrote this play based
on the diaries or journals that his dad wrote about working on Jaws. And
I was going to bring up that there's actually a whole scene dedicated to Roy
Scheider. The character of Roy Scheider like basically stripping down to his like speedo
because he has a minute just so he can tan for a while, and
I was like, yeah, but yeah, what you're alluding to is that
Richard Dreyfus attended recently one of the uh the Knights, and was left heartbroken
at his the way they portrayed it less than thrilled. Yeah, yeah,
which who knows, by the way, like, you know, there's you
know, there's there's this side, that side and the truth, you know.
Yeah, sure sure, And I've I've heard from plenty of people who
say that Richard Dreyfus is is in fact a kind of unpleasant person. So
you know, you know, I wouldn't doubt that there's some veracity somewhere.
Yeah, I'm sure some of it is pretty accurate. But I imagine then
all these years later, though, it's not fun to watch, Yeah,
to be sort of the yeah, to be the goat in the traditional negative
sense, not right in the current positive sense, right right, right,
that's funny. Yeah, these actors, you know, I mean this this
construct like it's not actual rock, right, So they were just slipping and
sliding all over the place. Yeah, it's like fiber gins or something like
that. Yeah, exactly. Now, wait when it shows that injury there,
what is it is that supposed to be fresh or why? I was
wondering about that, Yeah, or it looks like it happened several days ago
or a week ago or something, so I was confused. So she pretty
much starts screaming here and doesn't stop until after the credits end. I think,
yes, yeah, she was starting to become grading to me. But
I was also appreciating, I mean truly, like you're an actor. You
do what they want you to do, and you trust that they're gonna put
all the puzzle pieces together in a way that's the most enjoyable and entertaining.
But I feel like they did her a little dirty where they just like keep
coming back to her just losing her mind. You have to make It's like
one take that they just kept inter cutting and so it seems like she's screaming
for the whole time. Yeah, there's one that happened maybe like five minutes
ago, where she screams for like seventeen seconds straight. And I was like,
no, no, no, I mean you can cut you can you
can edit that, like, you can cut that in half if you like,
you know, like he didn't have to awkwardly hold on her for so
long. I was. As I was watching this, I was sort of
fascinated by how fit Roy Scheider's legs are. I was like, those are
some toned legs. Yeah, I mean, well the shorts he's wearing really
shows them off. Yeah yeah, yeah, gotta respect the hustle there.
So this here, so we were talking about like the way the way they
contrived to get rid of the shark, and I was saying, I like
what they did here because it is extremely different and and it kind of works.
But more interesting to me is like the Jaws ride at Universal, Florida
was based on Jaws two, not the first Jaws. I wonder where that
is. Is that easier to execute? I mean they're like hey, because
it's specifically it has him, it has him electrocuted, right, and he's
like scar and stuff. But come on, right, I mean, I
think this is really cool. The rhythmic thumping of the of the the paddle
to draw the show. I think it's it's put together really well. I
agree, Yeah, yeah, this is it's good. I Like I said,
I didn't remember this movie very well, and I was wondering, like,
well, they can't put another tank in its mouth, like, right,
how are they gonna get rid of this, and this is completely different.
It's it's clever. The way that said open up and say ah is
not quite the the the bone mow that that smiley son of a bitch is.
You know that's true. Granted I don't want him saying that again either,
but yeah, yeah, but it's it's a little bit like in Diehard
too, if McLean is like it's Howdy Duty time, Like it's like,
yes, with each movie he's got a different you know, like Homer,
this is sixty minutes or whatever. Yeah, right right. I mean that's
the thing too, though, is it started to get ridiculous with McLain where
he just kept saying the same thing that's right over at each movie, you
know. But yeah, I agree they should have maybe done a couple alts.
Ye had to open up and say ah, that doesn't really work for
me. Yeah, don't forget to floss as he sticks the cable in his
mouth. You know, I just took a sip of water right when he
said that. Yeah, you know, Roy Scheider, I mean he passed
away what like two thousand and seven, I think, And it's like a
real shame because I feel like by the end of his career, he wasn't
making as many appearances. You know, he kind of you know, I
don't know why, but it just felt like we weren't seeing him on screen
as much anymore. Yeah, and it feels like that should well, if
he was in the Golden Age of television era, like he would have had
some but on some series and you know, yeah, that's right, older
wizend Schier. I can totally see that. It's just he's his face is
so iconic to me. You know, I've said about like Roy Scheider looks
like the Mad Magazine drawing of Roy Scheider. That's really funny. Yeah,
it's so distinct. Yeah, like you know, because the Mad Magazine carecatch
is like slightly exaggerated whatever. It's like, No, that's just what he
looks like. Yeah, yeah, you know, and it's really funny.
You know, it looks like a he looks like a Mort Drucker drawing.
That's so funny, you claude, Well, that'll leave a mark. Yeah,
that's a pretty uh sensational end. I like it. I think it's
good. You gotta do something different with the sequel. It's got to be
a little bigger. I think this should have been the fake out death where
they think they're safe and then the shark comes out of the water with the
machine gun and they're like no, you know, and then Carl Winslow kills
them. I don't know something, yes, right, right right? Have
the script doctors take a look at that. Yeah, yeah, but yeah,
no, I mean it's funny. It's like a combination of like bad
seventies visual effects and also kind of cool practical effects, like you get this
sort of funny sorry sorry, yeah, yeah, like the sort of weird
cartoonish looking like yes, the electricity and stuff, electricity or whatever, but
then also you know, you get the flames coming out of it and you
can see like steam coming out of its eyes. It looks cool. I
think they figured out the right way to cut that sequence together. Yes,
that the stuff that's slightly dodgy. You're never focus on it too long.
Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of a funny impressionistic sort of thing too,
where it's cutting, like right, if I remember right, like intercutting between
Schier and the shark very fast for a second there, like that's right,
yeah, cutting to both sides, back and forth, back and forth.
I felt like this was a little bit of an abrupt ending. We didn't
even get thought. Yeah, well we get like in the first one even
just sort of like he used to hate the water, you know, just
like a little well something to go out with. And here I just maybe
like a line or something like it just sort of like the shark is dead,
and then the credits start and we see him rescue. We get the
little piece with Sean where Sean's like, you know, they made me go
with them and he's like, yeah sure they did, uhh yeah, sure
sure, And that's that's meant to be like kind of the thing that deflates
the tension. Yeah. I think maybe if he had been like who was
the one who wouldn't stop screaming? And they're like this one he's like you
go last, Yeah, and then directed by you know, like something like
that. You know, credits we could work shout that, but you know
along those lines that's really funny. Well, hey, well this was Jaws
too. What's your what's your? You know, First of all, let
me just say, you know, thank goodness nothing else came after this movie,
because he got like two really solid movies with you know, I agree,
someone would deign to make a third or much less a fourth one.
Right, yeah, no, what I would say as someone who was sort
of hesitant to ever feel the need to even visit this one, much like
my experience with Psycho two, Like, look, it ain't Jaws one,
but I don't I think it's worth checking out. I mean, it's just
a little more time in that world and a little more time with Brody,
and there's some some good stuff in it, and you know, it doesn't
threaten your love of the first one, Like I think it's worth checking out
if you haven't. Yeah, I think you know sometimes I've said this before,
right too. There so much of the discourse around films is either best
ever or worst ever? Yes, And and sometimes it's okay to just be
like, no, it's okay. You know. I think Dresser Park three
is okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah yeah. Well and and you know
to to you know, we our friend Paul Spattero, he's got his podcast
is it Jaws? Yes? And I love that he uses that as a
rating system, like he so he looks at other films and he says,
is it Jaws one? Is it like a masterpiece? Is it Jaws two?
Not bad? Is it Jaws three? Or is it Jaws four,
and I think this Jaws two is perfectly Jaws two. There you go,
and unlike the film which didn't know quite the last line to end on,
I think you found the perfect line to end on, so obviously I'll just
leave it there. Thank you everybody for listening to our Jaws two commentary track,
and as always, hey, we'd love to hear your thoughts on this
film and what your relationship is to it, because certainly there are plenty of
vigorous defenders of this film and people who vociferously hate it, so I'd love
to hear from both. But if you want to let us know what you
think, you can email us at moviefilmpodcast at gmail dot com. You can
also hit like on our Facebook page Facebook dot com, slash moviefilm podcast and
messages there. As always, if you like what we're doing, please go
to Apple Podcasts and leave a review, leave a star rating. Let people
know because that is what will help drive the traffic, and that'll be kind
of a nice thing. If you're looking for me online, you can find
me on social media at Zankie's Corner. That's the A k I. S
Corner. I'm on you know, Instagram, and we used to be Twitter
everything else. Brian is out and about doing stuff. He lives his life
offline. I don't know if he's living his life one mile at a time
apparently, yeah, in this day and age, but no. But you
can catch my writing Puppy Dog Pals, Young Jedi adventures out there and the
Disney channels and the Disney pluses of it all. Well, there we go.
Thank you everybody for listening. This has been our movie film commentary track
for Jaws too. We will catch you next time.