Three years after a national racial reckoning following George Floyd's death, Americans, particularly
religious groups, remain divided on issues of race and discrimination. Pere Research Center
data shows that white Christians, including Evangelicals, Catholics, and mainline Protestants are
more likely to believe that claims of non existent non existent racial discrimination are a
bigger problem than overlooking existing racism, and contrast, Black Protestants, non Christian
religious Americans, unaffiliated individuals, and Hispanic Catholics believe that not recognizing racism when
it exists is the larger issue. These divides reflect the ongoing polarization within American
Christianity regarding systemic racism. Experts suggest that politics often shape these attitudes more than
religious beliefs, and addressing these divisions may require more spiritual approach. Multi ethnic
churches and leadership that promote racial reconciliation can play role in bridging these divides.
This story is from Religious News, published on August twenty eight three. Aaron,
what are your thoughts? This is a really fascinating article. First of
all, that the stats they share are pretty eye opening. The uh eighty
eight percent of Black Americans, that's nine out of every ten Black Americans,
fifty eight percent of Hispanic Americans, and sixty six percent of Asian Americans are
all saying that the bigger problem is not seeing racism where it exists. That's
a lot of people and the fact that on the other side, people that
don't experience racism are saying, no, no, no, no, no,
there's no racism. The bigger problem is you think there's racism. I
don't think so. When nine out of ten black people tell me that there's
racism and there's problems, I should probably should probably listen to. That was
nine out of ten people, right, And I don't understand what people's avoidance
of trying of talking about it and trying to solve it is. What harm
is that gonna do to you? How's that gonna hurt your life? It's
only gonna make it better. Because you make life better for one group of
people, it's gonna make it better for everybody else. One of the examples
I like to do I like to bring out for making something better for one
group and it makes it better for everybody is the American with the Abilities Act.
One of its requirements was wheelchair accessibility. So when you go to an
intersection, with a sidewalk in the US, you have to have cutouts right
to those ramps so wheelchairs can get down into the street and back up on
the sidewalk. When you're in buildings that have stairs, there needs to be
ramps for people with the so that wheelchairs can get to other floors of the
buildings. And that's awesome. And you know who else, it's awesome for
people that were maybe temporarily in wheelchairs, or who are on crutches, or
who have other temporary health problems. They what's that cyclists, cyclists, people
on bikes. It helps, and it can help in ways that you don't
even intend or see. When you help solve racism so that more people can
get into housing, when you solve racism so that less people are going to
prison, it's gonna it's gonna make it for better for all other groups of
people. I just think that there's there's no problem, there's nothing wrong.
We's trying to fine and address racism. I just don't I don't see the
problem, Jimmy. I think the obvious answer here is that the failure to
address racism that already exists is much more of a problem than attempting to dress
racism that isn't there. On the one hand, you're avoiding a problem that
has plagued our society since its inception, and on the other hand, you're
attempting to curtail that problem that has plagued our society since its inception. I
think it's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of white people. I
can say that as a professional white person myself, many of us are inherently
racist. I heard somebody say that at a conference recently that I attended and
we discussed racism, and I thought it was a pretty good point, you
know, just having to look inside ourselves and recognize the system that we grew
up in the way that it oppresses other people. It also, i think,
in an exact reciprocation makes people into the oppressor, and so you have
to kind of go overboard when it comes to correcting that. And sometimes the
racism just might not be there, but it doesn't make you wrong for trying
to look for it. And this really isn't only a white problem, though.
I think we all have biases and stereotypes that we employ, and many
of us need to look inside acknowledge that we do have a certain level of
racism. However, white people probably do need to be a little bit more
sensitive with their thoughts, their words, and actions given the history that we've
inherited. And I'm not surprised at all that out of all of those surveyed
for this article, that the white people that were surveyed really were out of
touch with the levels of racism that exist, and that those that are not
white, well, they experienced it more than the white people. And so
that's no surprise to me, and I think it just speaks to the fact
that racism, and I think equality and justice in society is so lopsided towards
one group. And you know, Phoebe, actually it reminds me of a
segment that we did a few weeks ago where we were talking about kind of
a racist policy that was taking place in a district in California, and it
involves Southeast Asians. And you know, that district in California sixty six percent
Asian in Southeast Asian. The entire state of California thirteen percent Asian. And
so is no wonder that the these racial problems are taking place, and that
these these people that make up the large portion of that you know that specific
races population are the ones that can attest to it best. But our entire
legal system is founded on principles devised by, you know, men who rape
their slaves. And so none of this surprises me, and I'm of the
mindset that we do have to keep looking for racism are too correct. But
you raise an interesting point, and I think I raised in the discussion we
were having about California something Brittin the Hunter said, and as a brit it
resonates very well with me. He said, America does racism like an amateur.
It does it against people who look different to one another. Britain's gone
prone, it does it against people who look the same asu. I mean,
just as a context for this. In Britain, white on white racism
is a thing. There is a lot of discrimination and racism based in amongst
ethnically Anglo Saxon white people against ethnically white Irish traveling communities both white. But
the race, racism and the stereotypes are up the wazoo from the white English
towards the white traveler community. But I feel like I'm stating the obvious here
reading these statistics. I mean, I don't mean to sound surprised that a
stereotype has been proven here. But it's nice to have statistics to say that
the stereotype's been proven here. Shock horror, White people who sit there watching
Fox News listening that they are all going to you know, die from you
know, mythical white genocide. I will believe that racism is you know,
some non existent flash in the pan. And I mean, what kind of
thing were we expecting where they did this? Were they expecting, you know,
shock results that white people who sit in front of the Fox News all
day and listen to a pastor that shouts fire and brimsmon about how white people
come and are the greatest things since sliced bread with white Jesus and all this,
that and the other are going to say, well, you know there's
racism because I will write Jack, I will write Jack. I mean,
I feel like I'm sitting here looking at the most obvious of obvious things I've
ever sat sin. I mean, a racial minority who is a victim of
racism is going to say that actual racism is a real thing, whereas a
racial majority who doesn't actually experience racism, you're going to say that racism is
a thing. I mean, we now have statistics on it. I mean
blatant as the I hate to say it, as the resident non white person
on this tunnel. I'm professionally Black Jewish, so I'd look at this and
like, I think it has to be the result of like just the whole
no truth Scottlan Scotsman stuff. There's no other way that the Black Protestants,
non Christian, religious Americans, unaffiliated individuals, Hispanic cat all these groups.
There's no way, I mean, but thankfully they're in the majority here,
but no way that they can believe along the same lines as a group of
people whose beliefs are like antithetical to their existence outside of religion. Like you
can regree on a religious part, but everything outside of that is just polar
opposite. And I know the workaround with that is the no truth Scotman like.
They're not real Christians, you know what I mean that anybody that was
raised Christian like I was, we know that's the work around. That's how
you get your head wrapped around these weird relationships. But me personally, I
remember when George Floyd died. I remember the feeling in the pit of my
stomach when I watched them take his last breath. And there are humans that
live amongst us that watched that and their first thought was, we don't know
the whole story. There were adults that woke up the next day and they
were posting memes of a man being murdered with the caption, can't do the
time, don't do the crime, can't do the fake dollar bill and the
traffic ticket, So therefore you should go. You just play with your life,
I mean make money. I mean that's ridiculous. I think any person
would think that was ridiculous. You would think. But like, even with
that said, ignoring the irony in that statement, because if he had been
given the time instead of being murdered, we would have never known about it.
There would have been no national outcry. It just would have been someone
that went to prison for committing a crime that happens every day, and nobody
cares the problem with someone's life being stolen for a crime that was so petty
that it could have been resolved with change left over from lunch. Those same
people are later seen, like recently celebrating will just say pro life issues so
you can watch someone be murdered over a counterfeit twenty dollars bill and celebrate that,
but in the same breadth celebrate pro life issues. Does that make sense?
Then? I can't expect people who have that sort of reaction to a
tragedy and that sort of trained of thought to see anything that doesn't directly impact
their lives to care about racism. And you have to think about what the
people in these communities are usually spoon fed on a daily basis. It's usually
some right wing propaganda's confirming their bias and their fear based on opinions. And
of course they think that people imagining made up racism is the real issue here
because that's what they're being repeatedly told, that they're the real victim, and
that's what it does to the brain. Like we're dealing with the population of
peace people that believe that being replaced and their rights are being threatened every time
someone who doesn't look like them, or think like them, or believe like
them, or believe in the same psycho sky wizard. Every time one of
them gains rights, you lose rights. But these people, again are missing
the irony and saying that there's no racism or privilege for certain groups because their
fear of people gaining equal rights is apparent. If you fear equality, that
means you recognize that you have an advantage to be protected. That's all I've
got to say on that, I have an addition. I have an addition
to that. So the blatant, the point about the memes struck me.
You know, it wasn't just meme that people people were doing or creating.
That people would go out and openly let everybody else around them know what their
stance was, particularly on this issue, and so not so proudly. But
around the same time that this happened, I ended up moving to Florida,
and while I was living in Florida, a lot of people, a lot
of people tried to figure me out, tried to figure out if I was
one of them, if I was one of them, or if I was
somebody else, And so they'd have to bring up this issue. Meanwhile,
I don't even know them. I wouldn't even ask them to get my mail,
and they want to talk to me about how they feel about George Floyd.
This happened repeatedly, repeatedly, and exactly, and you know what those
memes, those memes were litmus test as well, because I think that those
people wanted to see what kind of responses they got, to see who their
people were, you know, and see what, pardon me, who was
on their crown? Yeah right, exactly, and and to see, you
know, maybe they're not the only ones, you know, And and I
could kind of relate because I, you know, we do it as atheists,
you know, I want to know who the other atheists are. Right
when everybody's at a work function or something, and everybody's got their head kind
of bowed and they're all doing their prayer, Me and the other atheists are
looking around like, oh, hey, you know, there's my folks.
But in reality, this is, you know, it's kind of an ugly
thing. Because all that to say, I think that people really do recognize
the level of racism, even if they want to deny it. And as
a white person, I don't like having the history that I have. You
know, I don't like what my ancestors did. I don't know if my
ancestors actually did any of that my particular bloodline, but it doesn't really matter.
It doesn't matter. I have benefited from the society that they created because
of how I look. I will say I'm the only bald guy on this
panel, so I do experience. I do experience some things that you all
know is trying trying. You can go read go read the YouTube comments if
you want to see how many people call me the bald guy. Okay,
but I'm sorry, I'm adding a little bit of humor to this. It's
not it's not funny. But I do think that people are not willing to
recognize how much racism there actually is, and I think they know more than
they let on. But I'm gonna I'll go something. I'm put someone's an
English Paris Barrison. He said the following, I don't see grace even though
I'm a black man. It's just a while creating divides amongst people for the
sake of it. Yes, okay, this colleague of mine like to indulge
in the South American marching powder. But what do people think of his sentiment
as that coming from a non white person, Aaron, I mean, I
think I enjoy the sentiment behind it, but it's not reflective of how the
world really works. I'm glad you don't see color. Unfortunately a large majority
of the people do see color, and they behave accordingly, and they vote
accordingly, and they treat other people that way. So we can get to
a point in our country where we value character over skin color, where we
seek out honest and good people and kind people, where we value those things
and we don't support people that are being dishonest and crooked and just seeking power.
Then maybe you can have a leg to stand on where you don't see
color. But I'm glad and also I'm glad that you personally might not see
color, but you still need to recognize that there are a lot of people
in this country that do, and we have we have some work to do
to combat that. But I mean, what do you think of his sentiment?
What do you think of his sentiment though that it's just an artificial dividing
line that we decide that we're going to divide people. Well, I agree,
I think it is artificial. But we have all sorts of artificial dividing
lines that we just create. We have. Religion is artificial dividing lines.
You mentioned earlier about the traveling folk in England versus Anglo Saxon non traveling folk
in England. That's that's an arbitrary dividing line, you know, Protestant versus
non Protestants, that's a dividing line. We're very tribal, and when we
identify example of that, and when we find our tribe, we will do
almost anything to protect that tribe. And I just instead of I would like
our tribes to be a character. Who we are, who we are,
how we behave, how we treat people, those should be the tribes that
we we gather around. So it always struck me whenever he used to say
it, because he would say it with I missing from what you were saying,
but it would always come across as ironic. But he would also quite
casually make the same jokes that you would expect a racist white person to make
about you know, other races. It's like, I won't repeat any of
them here, But it's just seeing it from a different perspective, because as
someone who has usually only seen it from it being a one way street in
this case, it's always struck me as slightly odd. And has anyone else
blatant Jimmy, have you ever encountered someone who has been that kind of an
individual? Oh? Yeah, yeah, I know plenty of black people that
honestly don't like black people. That's that's the first thing. But even along
those lines of I don't see color all one like. Cool. Go tell
that to the cup that just choked somebody up. Cool, Go tell that
to the politician that's making laws based upon race. Cool. Like you know
what I mean? Like, I get the sentiment. It's beautiful, everybody's
far and rainbowed, it's lovely, awesome. I get that, But that
doesn't reflect reality. So once it becomes the reality, then we can have
a conversation. But until then, you are living in an alternative fact world.
So I have my opinion on the whole I don't see color thing,
and I do appreciate the sentiment. I have a trouble believing that that that's
something like that can actually be true. I think we all do it,
right, I do, And I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with it.
If you're not unless you're not willing to overcome it, unless you're not
willing to recognize it and fight past your own biases, that's where the problem
comes, right. I just think kind of it's just an informational thing.
We kind of just create these characters. We create these personalities and people in
our heads the way that we think they are, and we have to when
that happens, recognize up, I did it again, and move on past,
you know, and kind of just give others the benefit of the doubt.
But to say that you are incapable of that happening to you, I
think is a little bit disingenuous. But what I would say, I think
I think we farted enough rainbows on this topic. And if you want to
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