What is krack lacking Hardwoo knocks listeners. I am Damp Valley coming at you once more without my fantabulous co host Adam Fromwell. I am, however, please to keep our season look Ahead train rolling, We're gonna move on to the Charlotte Hornets today. I speak with Kanada Edwards. He is the co host of the Locked On Hornets podcast. It's a great podcast. He co hosts it with Walker Mell. Followed Kanada on Twitter at not a describe that's at an A TA T E S c R I b E. We get into a lot of things Hornets. They're fascinating team. We talk the mellow potential trades, all that good shit. Before we get started, just my used realminder to please continue rating, reviewing, and subscribing to us wherever you get your podcast, whether you use iTunes or not, though we do ask that you head over their search Hardwood Knox throw us that fire, start rating right review. It takes ten seconds and it helps us out so so much. Cannot stress that enough. If this is your first time listening to us, consider making this a permanent subscription. Throw us in your rotation stable. We are a league y podcast, we try and dive deep into every team one weeken. As you will see, we're about to have a sixty plus minute conversation about the Charlotte Hornets. So follow us on Twitter as well at hardwoo Knocks. We were also on YouTube. Go to YouTube dot com search hardware Knocks will come up. Subscribe and just want to reiterate, subscribe to this podcast in general. Download every episode helps us out a ton please and thank you. Without further delay, though, let's get into our Charlotte Hornets look ahead for the twenty twenty one twenty twenty two NBA season and beyond. Kind of talking a lot of big picture stuff with locked on Hornets co host Kannada Edwards, Kannada, thank you so much for coming back to the Hardware Knox podcast to talk Charlotte Hornets with me. Where I can say now and forever, I'm never going to troll you again because the past two years it's come back to bite me in the ast on draft night. I'm sorry. I want to get that out of the way now. There will be no trolling here and not just during this podcast, but ever again, I am terrified. Most importantly though, how are you doing wait wait, wait, hold hold on, hold on, Dan, what are you doing here? I thought this was like the Grant Riller like apologist group. I was told that this was the Grant Riller apologogist group. Like it's me, it's Nicias and it's Adam. That's it, Like like that was that? That was it? What are you doing here? So basically you tricked me into doing this podcast after trolling me, and yes, yes I did get the last laugh because now it's been again the Obie topping, and then you gave up, basically gave up Kai Jones for free, which thank you, thank you for that, thank you, because those picks are gonna those picks are never going to transfer. But yes, it is, it has been. It has been good. It has been good. It just trying to enjoy what's left of this off season because it is. We're rapidly coming up. The day will be Monday, and it's gonna be It's gonna be crazy because there's a legitimate superstar and Charlotte face yes I mean the Melo ball and obviously get to him is fascinating. But look, imagine your disappointment thinking that you're gonna be on a podcast with Adam Framo and Nikaia is Duncan and then it's just Dampa Valley. That's gotta be like, I'm sorry to ruin your weekend. Set the knot it's it's it's not, You're not ruining my weekend. I thought we would just get this, like sob over Grant Riller being in Philly because I thought Grant Riller was gonna do something last year and then the pandemic kind of ruined it for him, and then he got hurt, and then he's in Philly. Now then they put then the Hornets put him at point guard for no reason whatsoever, and they put him in the worst possible position, and then they ship him and then he goes to Philly. I'm so we could I could legitimately spend a half hour talking about the disappointment that was Grant Riller. We're not going to do that, but I could. I will say what was that? Like? Why why isn't he still there? It's not like they have you know, they do have players at his position, but it's not like he wouldn't have if he was healthy and actually showed like he has zero path to plying Timber is it worth at least still taking a flyer on that seems bizarre to me. I would tell you that the Grant Riller experience was made kind of expeditious, like he was expendable, because he's kind of redundant when you think about it, He's not a point guard, and with the departure of Devonte Graham, their point guard is going to be necessary. Enter Ish Smith, which you ended up with James Book Knight, and then on top of that you have Kelly U Ray. Plus they got rid of one of the Martin twins. So Grant Riller had such an uphill climb. I think it was kind of done to him as a favor. And on top of that, this team might give a I'm not a two way spot, but lo Angelo Ball might take a roster spot. And unfortunately, if you went just by summer league only, which granted is a very dangerous proposition, you're talking about lo Angelo Ball looking loads and I mean the loads better than Grant Riller in Summer League, no matter how you slice it. Unfortunately, that's also the thing, like I like, I want to say, I want to say I believe in Grant Riller. I think he's gonna do well in Philly. But at the same time, I'm like, when lo Angelo Ball looks like more of an NBA player than you do, there's a problem and it just means he's not a fit on this roster somewhere. Adam, my co host ears are bleeding right now. I know, I know, and I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't want to be the one to be the best. Like I said, I thought this was the I honestly thought that this was going to be one of those where it was just again, I could cry about the disappointment because I was so happy that grant Rella was on this team and then he did that, which was nothing. Looking at the actual people that are still on the Horns then wanted to pick or pointing about some of their offseason stuff. Yeah, do you think they made the right call not taking a more expensive swing at center? And maybe I should rephrase it as I actually I'm fine with that concept because it was what was it, Jared Allen or Rashaun Holmes. And I mean I did say on this podcast, if it only cost a little bit more than what he got to get out of Sacramento, Charlotte should be fine A draft pick for letting Rashaun Holmes return to Sacramento is more of a joke, but I'm actually overall fine with the concept. But I guess the rephrase question will be should they have gone with a cheaper defensive swing at the center position than a Mason Plumley. I struggle with this question because I honestly do struggle with this question because there's a part of me that absolutely grace with you. There's also the part that you could make a case the biggest like we could go back to when the Hornets were as high as fourth and granted, no matter how you see that, if you saw that as a pandemic mirage, this team was as high as fourth in the East and then fell apart when Gordon Hayward wasn't able to continue the season. That was a giant hole that they were never going to be able to fill. I would argue with worst centers on the roster last year that filling the hole that was left with by Gordon Hayward's absence with a guy similar, with a guy that can do something similar in Kelly Oubrey was more important than filling the center position, and then more than getting another center. I love Rashaun Holmes I'm not sure I'm paying him fourteen fifteen million a year, especially, Hey, it turns out you didn't have to apparently apparently apparently, And I think and I think Mitch Kupcheck alluded to that, like they didn't think that he was going to be available for the fourteen fit like the fourteen fifteen that maybe it might have taken. I get it, But I also understand that they believe in internal development. I think that's one thing that the Orneans have kind of proven, Like we're gonna trust our own guys, We're gonna trust the system. It's worked thus far with Miles Bridges DeVante Graham being what he was, even though he kind of leveled off last year. Like I think this team trusts. Okay, we're just gonna have to. We're gonna we're gonna be the type to go to the farmers market. We're gonna go get some raw materials. We're gonna trust trust ourselves to chef it up and make ourselves a decent basketball team. And I get that because I like Kai Jones. I granted, I think he's a year away, but I also think that they like Kai Jones. I think they like JT. Thor more than more than we think. I think this team wants to invest in younger guys because they feel like they know that Miles Bridges is going to be super expensive coming up. They're still gonna have to make a decision on PJ Washington at some point. I get wanting to stay cat flexible and not blowing the budget on the center when they don't necessarily have to right now. And I get that part of it. I'm just wondering, like, should they have been looking at a new Lands Noel or kem Bircher, just somebody who would give you more defensively than amaze him plumbly, because I feel like what he does best. I'm just not sure that the Hornets need even on offense, and so oh no, I disagree there. I disagree on offense what they they because a lot of the time when the ball got to the center position, and granted it's Cody's element bismack bambo, so your expectation should have been lowered off the gate. What I would tell you is that at some point you were going to need a guy that was going to help facilitate and move the ball. That was one of the good things that PJ. Washington did from the center position. So if they're going to lean in on in a position leaning in on offense and understanding that yeo, the defense is not going to be there this year, and understanding that and being comfortable with that for one more year, I completely understand. And more importantly, we're talking about a guy and Mason Plumberly that if you pair with the no non guaranteed contract of a Kelly Oubrey in that second year, you may be able to get you somebody similar like a Miles Turner, Like you're going to be able to do something with those two contracts at the end of the day. And I understand exactly why they went for that, Like I understand why they didn't do it this year, because I think they feel like we need to really have a eighty two game test and figure out what this roster really is outside of the certain pieces that we have absolutely locked down. I understand why they're doing it. I just hope that if they don't necessarily get to the point where we think they will, that people are understanding of why they did it. Yeah, And so, like I said, I'll have to watch more closely them to see how Mason Tumley does with them. I probably just I guess I didn't look at that closely enough, but I think I just would have liked you to have seen them go more defensive minded, even if they weren't going to spend, which is I do agree with you on that concept of it, and even to take the Flyer and Kelly Ubre it deepened your roster, like you've essentially you used that money, let's just say, on two players instead of one, and in a time when bigs are I'm wanna say, inherently less impactful, but like they're just not unless you apparently jared out and getting one hundred million dollars over five years, you're just not. They're getting squeezed. I think Rashaun Holmes a perfect example, where how did he only stay on early bird writes? So you already kind of answered this, though you don't expect hid Jones to really get any crack at playing time in year one. I think there is also I'm staring at the Protections on the pick that they sent to the Knicks, and I could cry. I'm just like, normally I understand that like that wasn't the Knicks guy, but I my criticism for them in the draft. I think I had a good overall season. Was take a bigger swing than you did in the draft. And normally when you are giving up your first the other team is I don't always want to say overpaying, but there's a pick that's probably going to convey in the next two years. And I don't think you look at these protections and think that this pick has like the best chance of conveying before twenty twenty four exactly. And that's you're talking about year four, Lamello at that point. And if I'm not mistaken, isn't it like, doesn't it go to second rounders at that point? I think it's also I have written down and maybe I'm wrong. I have a lot of protection in twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five. Okay, yeah, okay. And I don't know if you've noticed this. This is just a random note. It feels like the protections on picks you're just extending out longer and longer in these trades. Absolutely, like the thing is, And it's funny that you talk about this because this is the issue I have. When they traded Devonte Grammont only got the first round pick. That's eventually going to turn into two seconds. Like I understand that, like the asset sometimes is very very like the player is much more worth than the picks that you're going to get kai Jones, And to answer your question a little bit, I think kai Jones has a strength issue a little bit. I think kai Jones also, like there's a lot of this. He's still got to figure out how to play and if he does that, and honestly, if he cracks the rotation, it's because he can protect the rim, he can functionally rebound, and he can play decent pick and roll defense as the five. If he does all of that, sky's a limit. If he can't, he's going to be in Greensboro, and I think that that's gonna be okay. I think a lot of what we saw in Summer League needs to be ironed out. He was trying to take dudes one on one. Now. Granted, there was some explosive plays that he made in Summer League, and it's stuff that you really really really really really really want to take note of. At the same time, that kid needs to learn like the game and learn where he needs to be as as a five, and if he figures that out, like I wouldn't. The earliest estimation for me would be if he shows up in let's say January. I wouldn't necessarily be surprised, but that's the earliest I think he shows up. I also do think that this also depends on what happens with a burning carry. I'm not counting Nick Richards. I don't think Nick Richards will be on this roster come like the start of the season. But if we're talking about, like if running carry somehow becomes a body on defense and becomes functional on defense, that changes what the Kai Jones trajectory. I think this is going to be one of those things where he's going to show up. It's just a matter of when, because ad athleticism, you can't keep off the floor very long. I fell in love with him during summer League. He threw this pass that I can't remember right now, but it was just so emphatic and flamboyant. It was like he wanted you to know that he was passing like mellow when he's cussing on rebounds. I loved it. I also just really want to see what LaMelo looks like, or you know, see lameloill play with someone who has pogo stick hops wants to crush it on the finish views, you know, offensive rebounds. This is one of his most important food groups. So I'm kind of hoping he does get and just some type of run this year because I would just loves Bridges wasn't enough. What's that's that Miles Bridges wasn't enough. I don't consider Miles Bridges a big If you want to throw Miles Bridges at the five more often, then no, no no no no no no no no no, we can't do that. That does lead me to this question. So it sounds like we can expect PJ. Washington to you know, have a timeshare at center and power forward again, if not spend even more time at the five this year. Yeah, yeah, I would. I would say that's the plan right now. And that's because honestly, the best lineups last year had PJ. Washington at the five. That's like they're gonna have to really, really, really really lean into that. And I just there's a part of me that understands that, there's a part of me that wants them. It's it's one of those things like I would only use that to close games. I would never feature him or I would never basically slot him in to be the five for anything other than it's winning time, because I think it just wears him out. I do think that, And it's one of those things like the physicality of the five in the NBA is one of those things that we do not talk about nearly enough, and how much it wears you down and brians you down, and then the compact and in a compacted season, that's the type of stuff that'll get someone hurt. And I'm not the biggest fan of seeing one of the more impactful bigs that they have being put in a position to consistently be worn down. And at some point, like we're gonna have these conversations of who do they keep Miles Bridges or PJ. Washington, And the tempting pick is Miles Bridges. I'm not sure versatility wise that they can deal do without Peter Washington at all, not right now if they won't to play the Fox so much. And I'm you mentioned it takes a toll the I was surprised at how good the rebounding was obviously an issue when he played the five. I was actually surprised at how well the defense held up overall. Through like huge chunks of the seasons, and I was looking through the lineup data. Charlotte's defense was in the sixty nine percent file of efficiency when he played the five, which was for almost cleaning the glass has a like eighteen hundred possessions, which is that's a lot for someone his size. Do you view him as someone though that's going to be able to like you, I guess you kind of ermission but like hold up or be more of a back line, Like he seems like a better switch defender right now than he ever would be a rim protector or just a back line. He's actually underrated on that. He's actually underrated. He I do believe that he can do that. Whether you want him to do that is the question. He can do it. I'm just not sure that it actually helps you. Like the the switcher switchable five. Love what he does, and he helps basically stop a lot of these a lot of these drives because unfortunately LaMelo's probably their second or third best perimeter defender and I don't think he's all that good, so they give up a lot of drives. And he just had to clean up a lot of stuff in that back line. The problem becomes as like you noted the rebounding because I just remember, and I think you probably watched the game's second that either the second last game or the last game of the season against the Knicks in the third and fourth quarters where PJ. Washington was the center and they just kept getting giving up offensive rebound after offensive rebound after offensive rebound is not one of those things that's sustainable when you get closer to the end of the season. So that's why I think it works. He can do that. The problem becomes what happens when you overuse it and you're back into March April and hopefully maybe a little bit of may what happens then with that team with that lineup. The thing I've given some consideration too is if having Kelly Ubrid Jr. Helps in that regard, because all of a sudden, you can play him Bridges and Washington if you really wanted to at the same time, and Kelly brid Jr. Has shown he's not. I think Kelly Virginior's defense has been probably like the idea of Kelly Ubrid Junior is fantastic. It's better than ashell Kellyer Brirjinior. But he can kind of guard up a little bit, and so I'm wondering if they can just Mitchett mix and match more in those lineups, and that Kelly brid Jr. Might help them most. They're curious what you think about that, but overall, I'm just curious as to what you think about Kelly Ubrad's overall fit on this team, which that seemed I'm shocked a lot in free agency, not being an insider, but that was like maybe one of the most random signings that I saw and I expected, but it makes it seems like it makes sense. It makes sense because Mitch basically was like and I think the thing that shocks me the most about Kelly Ubrey Jr. Isn't necessarily the fact that they signed him. It's what they signed him for because it's the twelve and then that second year is partially guaranteed. That's the part that surprises me, and I think, and it goes back to what we talked about earlier. I think he signed primarily because the wing spot was such a big hole when Gordon Hayward went down, and you can only rely and and we'll talk. I know we're gonna talk about this more, but I think you can only rely on Gordon Hayward so much. Gordon Hayward was their best player last year. Despite what anyone will tell you about LaMelo, I love LaMelo. Gordon Hayward was their best player last year. The minute he went down, that was it, and that was it for possibly getting a just an out and out playoff spot. The minute he went down. I think that that's Gordon Hayward insurance. And I think Hayward insurance is very very necessary considering some of the road trips that this team will take this year, specifically the pre Christmas one in December, which if you look at is fairly brutal. You're gonna need that because they're going to have to load manage him. So I look at Kelly Oubrey Jr. As more of Gordon Hayward insurance. We just need a functional body that isn't necessarily Jailen McDaniel or Cody Martin or maybe even James Buckneight, even though I don't think he's ready yet. I do think that Kelly Ubre. The idea of Kelly Ubre, especially when we're not asking him to do much. All you gotta do, come in, come off the bench, get your shots up, defend a little bit and be that insurance. I think doing that with his little expectation and basically being a part of a team that is going to be up and down again this year because the Hornet's believe in that brand. I do think that the idea of that is going to I think the idea of Kelly Oubrey is actually gonna match the expectation here for Kelly Ubrey, and I think it'll be a nice little marriage right there. He probably just benefits from getting out of Golden State, where they were making it asking him at least the beginning there and make too many read and react decisions. And that's just never been the type of player he is, So I'm fascinated he always fits in with this team. Miles Bridges, let's just keep talking about these you know, bigger wings or whatever you consider him. And if you're wondering whether Miles Bridges searches his name on Twitter, the answers yes, because he retweeted something thing I tweeted about him while I was doing research for this pod h and I found that hysterical. But he was so good last he was, and he just to me and you've seen way more of him so he might have shown this in past, but he showed more directional variants on the ball. He hits step back threes. What I mean, do you buy in to his quotes breakout last year and what's the next front tier look like for him if he gets there the next frontier. I'll I'll give you a real quick answer on the on the next frontier, the next frontiers consistency that that's literally it. The breakout isn't a surprise to me. And I'll and the only reason I'm not surprised because he put this together. He kind of put this closer to the end of last year. He put this together last year and then the pandemic happened and everything else like that, And it's the same thing that it's the same reason why I think Peter Washington's in for a big year this year. I do think it's very sustainable what he did. I think it's incredibly sustainable because he was doing a lot of this in the second year. And I also do believe that he is capable of doing a lot of this stuff from just there's a lot of this that just he'd been working on putting it together, and there's something that if you've ever heard our podcast before, it's been one of those like running jokes. The Hornets give their second year players more than they can handle and then realize they can't handle certain aspects and then start adapting and adjusting from there. We've seen it done with Moss Bridges in the year two they realize it's too much, and then in year three they figured let him figure it out off the bench and let him learn, adapt and go from there. We've seen it now with PJ. Washington, where they've done the same thing. So I think a lot of the stuff that you've seen is stuff that he's kind figured out and realized, Oh, I can do this at the next level. Oh I can do this also at the next level. I'm just so fascinating see what his next contract looks like. And he is. He is so good, and he talked about I think at the end of the season that he was going to try and focus on creating for himself more consistently. And the thing I alluded to before I actually this question was he shot fifty eight plus percent on step back threes last year seventeen of twenty nine. I think it was. And they weren't like Luca Dangs, James Harden step back threes, but they were starts at threes. Hello, yes, yeah, I'm here, I'm here. Sorry, I'm cut out for a second. Yeah sorry, Yeah. So just he was great and like going back and watching that, I'm so curious to see, like what could happen for him this year? Should he throw it all together? And what do you see? You know, I was what do you see for him in like that sort of next contract, Like you mentioned it's gonna be expensive to keep him, Like if you had to even peg or ballpark a number, what do you think that's gonna take to retain him? Eight Like seventy two for four feels like the number, okay, eighteen a year, I feel like because one we're dealing with a college sports client and they come very very expensive most like most of the time, I feel like it's a seventy two for like four, Like I feel like that's the number. I don't it's not one of those that I'm but I just don't think there's a lot of this that if you believe a Miles Bridges and I think the terror around the Terry contract is where you go and I think it's eighteen for seven. I don't think they're doing a five year deal with him. I do not think they're doing a five year deal, especially when like they don't have LaMelo lockdown down. I do think that a lot of this is also dependent on because you're you're talking about he may be the number one free agent if he has a big year next year because because of the waste land that is next year's free agency, like like that's the thing he has another he may be the number one free agent next year. So like eighteen for seventy two, like like seventy two for four just feels like the number in the sweet spot. I just wonder if they do it now and get it over with, or if they've basically decided, you know, we're gonna play it out and we'll just match anything, which I think is a very very very very dangerous pop proposition. I would agree with you because you look at the cap space landscape next summer and maybe it won't be too bad. What do you mentioned, there's a real path to you know, zach Lavine's going to hit the open market. At this point, we know but after him, and we don't really know what's gonna happen with Brady BeO and his player option really extend, Like, is he going to be traded somewhere where he'll he'll stay if four and seventy two is what it takes to get done now, unless you think that you're trying to use him to acquire a better player, and it gets so hard to trade guys who are on extensions. I am locking him down at four and seventy two right freaking now, Yeah, I would. I just don't know if they will like they've gotten. I thought that because again we talked about this last year. I thought they were locking down Devontae Gram. They tended not to be in love with him as much as in love with him as as they thought. Plus, and this is the other thing about Devonte Gram. Devonte Graham wanted more, more of a role than was going to be available to him after the emergence of LaMelo Ball. I do think a lot of this depends on how much they really want him to stay. I think they want him to stay. I wonder how much Clutch is waiting for him to play the open market to get as much money as he can, because I think they know the Hornets will probably match. And we also know Clutch really doesn't do the October deals. It's like again the Halloween extensions, as much as they probably want to. So I'm not I'm not sure. I'm not sure I would do it though. Yeah, and the last thing I'll send it also wouldn't surprise me that if he if he hits the open market, that they're trying to look for like a three year deal plus the player option at the end to give him more flexibility because with their you know, I think they've had some like rookie extensions where they've gone the full five years if the guy's a superstar, but they're like non superstar clients, even some of their superstar clients have just favored these shorter deals that get them back into free agency sooner. Yeah, that's the other thing, Like I actually know that you said that. That makes it a lot of sense because again, the three year deal, three year deal plus the option gives him an out just in case LaMelo wants to leave. Which again, I'm not the one that's going to start inciting that panic because Lord knows that New Orleans. Again, if you just take a look at New Orleans and the stuff that's going down there, like you could but I understand like if everybody wants a parachute out of this franchise sometimes because you never know because it's a small market. And this is part of the problem of dealing with a small market at times is if they again, if you can, you're stark and choose to leave at any time, and that's just the way it is. This sort of so Terry Rosier, this ties into the Devonte Grand stuff. I listened to the pod that you and Walker did in the reactions to the Rosier extension, and you both were kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum. It is a really good podcast. Everyone should check it out. Can you sort of expand upon your thoughts about why you're okay with the price point relative to the responsibility that he has. And I'm wondering if part of this calculus was because Devonte Grand was gone and now they looked at Terry Rozier is even more important because yes, you have is schmith, but is smith is a smith at the end of the day. There And also, I know Terry Rosier slipped off with his efficiency last towards the end of last year, and I think that probably a lot to do with you. Gordon Hayward banged up, LaMelo banged up. Statistically speaking, he was also one of the most accurate crunch time shooters in the league. And I know he's not taking these difficult off the dribble attempts, but just to have a guy who can stretch the floor like that and knock down those big shots, I understood both sides of the argument. I'm just not sure where I still land on it because that number is huge, and so I'm just curious whether you could expound upon your thoughts for our listeners on it. Honestly, I was one of those that understood it because this team was searching for the next Marvin Williams. And what I mean by that is Marvin Williams came in, taught the rookies how to work, taught Miles how to work, taught Dwayne Bacon, who's now a nick how to work. He taught PJ. Washington how to work. There's a lot of these guys that came in with the work ethic that they did because there was a tone setter. So Terry Rose here is a tone setter. On top of that, he was, as you said, one of the best clutch shooters in the League last year and on and even more so had a career year with the guy you just drafted. That's and it wasn't one of those things like, oh this would it may be a pandemic insited clutch shooting performance. No, this felt sustainable. This felt like and even if it was, even if you're not going to get the highs that he hit. Going back regressing to the meme with LaMelo ball feeding you easy passes and easy shots, it feels easily replicable. And if he's going to give you those kind of numbers, I would say he's worth the mccollumn money that he's going that he's getting right now. And if that's going to be the case, on top of the TV money that is coming and the cap is going to go back up, I think this is one of those deals that ends up looking better than it is a couple of years down the line. I really do believe that you at some point you do have to start committing to guys. And as we said, Devonte Graham, thing could not happen because Demonte Graham wanted to be the starting point guard. Turns out there was somebody better. On top of that, you are also getting a whole bunch of like the Miles thing has to play into it. And at some point you have to develop your own guys because for a long time they weren't paying their own guys. They needed to pay one of them to say, hey, if you do X, we will invest in you so much. So I get it, but it's one of those things like I can honestly see the other side, but I also believe strongly that the people business part of this is why you sign a guy like Terry Rochier, because you want him to be the best, to be the shining example of see, we'll pay you if you do this, and we believe in you. And on top of that, Terry just loves this place, man. Terry's everywhere in Charlotte. Harry loves Charlotte. Terry chose Charlotte. I think that matters at the end of the day, because again, this is a people business. The other thing with him too, is he and this isn't a staple part of his game, but he gives you a lot of people for him is just a catch and show guy, and I think he's more than that. He actually hit a higher he had to post a higher effective field goal percentage on his pull up jumpers than Devin Booker last year. That's not to say that I think he's better than Devin Booker. I just think there's a little bit more to his game. And then also I often forget he's six one when I watch him play defense at certain times, and so maybe you're more comfortable giving him that money. And it's sort of the perfect age to do it. He's entering his age twenty seven season, so this takes him straight through his early thirties, and so that ends up being fine. As you mentioned the Capspike, whether it's smoothed out or whether it's this huge jump that deal in year four when it's twenty six point whatever million dollars, it doesn't look I don't even want to say it's bad because I'm fine with players getting paid. And I look, if he's gonna if Terry Row's year from last year, if that's just the new stasis for him, he is absolutely worth this deal. I guess I'm just not sure yet whether that's the Terry Rosier to expect for even you know, two to three years of this contract, but I'm open to the idea that it could be, which is why it was. I didn't know what to think of it, and listening to that podcast between you and Walker was absolutely fascinating. Thank you. Like the thing is and I understood. I also think that they needed to have some sort of certainty because I do believe that if Terry, if they came out to a slow start, and looking at that schedule, slow start is very very very very possible, they would have they would you would hear all the whispers of Terry Rogier, like Terry Roggier being on the trade block, and also we talked about the wasteland that is next offseason. Yeah, like Terry Rogier. If Terry Rogier puts off anything similar to what he got to what he did last year, what's his number compared to what it is now? Think about it that way, I'd probably argue they gave him the deal he would have gotten if he were maybe he got like four one hundred or something, but I think he would have gotten more. Like honestly, Dan, I think he would have got. I think he left. I think he left a good little bit of money on the table. And that's the other thing. Like the longer I think about this, the more people that sign too. Again, before the next offseason. I really, really, really really do think that this was going to be one of those scenarios where Terry Rogier would have been right behind Zach Lavine as number two free aid because of the catch and shoot and because we all know NBA front offices are enamored with shooting and you can never have enough, he would have gotten more. I think he would have gotten four for one twenty. I really do. Okay, wow, Look, if that's what you think, then they absolutely needed to make that deal, and I lean towards being indifferent with it, which I think is that's just probably a borderline compliment then to what he did. But he was. He was so good. I don't think people would realize how good he was last season. Let's I have not asked you about James book Night yet. What did you think about that pick? Because I fell in love with him at points and I'm trying not to read too much in the Summer League, but in defense of myself, the game in which I fell in love with him was when Davion Mitchell was basically swallowing his soul, So I feel like that sort of balances it out. But I loved it, and I'm just curious as to what your early impressions of him has been. What did you think about that pick the whole nine there. I was surprised he fell am I still am legitimately surprised the Hornets came away with the draft class that they did this year because I think getting j Teeth or getting Kai Jones and getting book Night is a coup. I do think that, like people are going to be surprised when Cody Martin plays over him to start the season. I don't expect it to last because James, because one thing about James Brego is he sticks with his guys until he gives him a reason. He sticks with the guys until those guys give him a reason not to play them as much anymore. We've seen it now with the Terry Rogier at point guard experiment that didn't last because of the explosion of Devonte Graham. That was a slow burn to earning that starting point guard position for DeVante Graham. We saw it last year with LaMelo Ball. LaMelo Ball was clearly a starter, even though I was kind of defending it at the same time. But we've seen this happen James book Night. It's going to take a while for him to crack real rotation minutes because because of Brego's love of the veterans and love of the system, and the system has kind of worked at this point. So if that's going to be the case, book Night's going to play, it's just not going to be when everybody thinks it is. He's not like I love James book Knight. There's an outside shot he's not going to be in the Rookie All Star Showcase, the Rookie Sophomore Showcase because he's not going to have the numbers. I understand why that's going to be the case. He's going to be good. I am not worried about him. I am very, very stoked. The playmaking ability is what really makes me fall in love with That's the thing, not as scoring, because I think the scoring is always going to be there, but his ability to just play, make and distribute the basketball was something that we did not see it. You gone. I did not think his defense was going to be as good as it was, even on summer league level. He defends at a competently at an NBA level, And the sooner he does that, I promise you, the faster he's going to play. It's going to come down to his defense because they're going to have more than enough guys that can score. If he can defend and he can shoot, the sky's the limit for this kid. And that maybe the one caveat to the why did you sign Terry Rogier to all that money? Because you I have a guy that can possibly be better. I would call him this year's Tyrese Halliburton. And I know it's a painful. I know that's a painful fact for you. I hate, I hate moving on, but but I think that he can do a lot of things. I think he can do a lot of things. Well, it's just when does he explode onto the scene. If he does that, if he takes over for Cody Martin early, sky's limit for him this year. And it's interesting that you mentioned about how Charlotte likes to throw a lot more on their year two players than they can handle, because it does seem like, at least in recent years, Dy've just groomed or brought their rookies along very slowly. And even LaMelo. I know he was LaMelo last year, but he was coming off the bench for part of the season, and so I'm just you mentioned that maybe mid season he's able to get a regular spot in rotation. But do you think there's actually a chance where they sort of follow the route of the other non LaMelo rookies where he's brought along on this lower end. Oh, I think I think they're absolutely bring them along. I'm slower end. I do think that. I just think that at some point, like the gifts that we saw, and granted it's summerly, so we have to put it like a cap on it. But at the same time, what you saw is something that the Hornets haven't had in a two guard with SA in terms of size distribution and not even the shooting, but the size distribution and athleticism. Like, I kind of really like this kid. I think he's just it's just a matter of time. I'm not saying he's not the Kai Jones thing where I don't think he's going to be a factor until probably January. I think book Night gets in early because I think he's that gifted at what he can do. It's just a matter of time. And I know you said, I don't mean to be all points per game Twitter right now, but I know what you said, the scoring doesn't matter as much I love guys that can seemingly toggle between working on and off the ball, and I think you Summer League was telltale of that, where there's like, he hit some jumpers that left me slack jawed, and I don't know that the Hornets have aside from a mellow and maybe even not Lamel Like the level of jumpers or shots that he could create for himself is just I would argue this team long term because still use that, but to also know that he can just play off of everybody else, maybe that gives him a pathway to not only making an impact as a rookie, but having some staying power in the rotation. That was the one of the other parts of his game that I fell in love with during Summer League. Yeah, now that would like the staying the jumper, the ability to make jumpers, because you gotta remember it after I would say, what after game one? Because you watched it with me, you watch you watched a whole bunch of this stuff. After game one, he became the number one guy to take care of about offense, like that was obvious. They were like and that was the davey On Mitchell game where Daveon was like was told yo, look, we're taking him out and we're winning this game, right, Like, this kid did a lot and especially and you know, the game I honestly fell in love with him was the day A fellow in love was his first game because he was going up against that Portland team that basically was the All China League team with Michael Beasley on there. There are a couple other guys there like that Ship that were too old to be there that just and he essentially held his own. That was the day that I realized, Okay, cool, this kid can play. I do think that his skill set is going to be very very rare because you talk about guys that can get their own shot, it's LaMelo and it's book night and maybe Terry Rosier. Actually no, and I'll tell Gordon hitwd in there too, Like there's those are the four guys that you can feel comfortable maybe he can get their own shot. And after that it becomes a whole lot of guys that need to be spoon fed, and he's good at that too. So I think he's the Halliburton of this class. I just wonder how much how much does the coaching system and how much does he take to everything, because as sooner he takes everything, the more you're going to see him activated, and the more you seem activated, the more I think he's going to be really, really good for this steam. It's two Tyres Halibert mentions right now. My soul has been cut couple times at this point. I'm sure some people I do timestamp the podcast, so I don't think they would be too angry. But me waiting this long to ask about LaMelo Ball one, I want to I don't want to say plugged this for you, but the podcast you and Walker did after the LaMelo Ball GQ article came out, that was also I think that might be my favorite pod, one of the few favors, but one of my top five favorite locked on Hornets pods. So appreciated. Go check that out. That was a great episode. But LaMelo Ball, what are we? What are we should be? What should we be looking to see from him in year two? What are your expectations for him as he heads into that sophomore campaign? Increase increased, increased outside shot. I think the first the pre LaMelo Ball, pre risk injury, LaMelo Ball, the shooting. If I think that's here to stay, I think it may even improve. I think we're going to get a better finishing in the I think we're gonna get a better finishing inside the paintin LaMelo ball. I just I think we're going to see a guy that's completely comfortable with the offense and has fully mastered the offense. That's the kind of guy that we're talking about. We're talking about a guy that for the most part, has stayed in Charlotte, which should tell you some things. Not many guys like it's Terry that stays in Charlotte, it's Miles on occasion, but LaMelo's basically been in Charlotte the entire summer. That should kind of inform you on how these things are going to go. I really think that he may be the one Hornets second year guy in the Barrego era that they're going to throw everything on, and I think he's going to live up to it more like that's and for me, and you've listened enough to the pots, No, that's fairly high praise for this guy, because normally they don't live up to the second year, second year hype. This kid could probably do it. And you know what, I'm okay with, Like I am excited to see what happens. I don't know what's gonna happen. I think, could I see him averaging twenty twenty two and like, could I see him averaging twenty two and eight on like literally forty forty and again forty forty eighty? Yeah? I can. And if he does that, we're talking about possibly a playoff team, not like playing game, no playoff team, like top six team. He does that, and I think they're going to be in a really, really good spot in terms of the East. So I guess the two things were you pleasantly surprised with his shooting off the dribble, asked year even though there's room to grow, Like I look, he hit over thirty two percent of his off the dribble threes, and I was just like, you know, want year one for what people expected of him. That's fine. I was also more impressed than he did down a pretty good number of his his catch and shoot looks as well. I think my bigger concern with him just from a scoring perspective. I mean, when you watch when you watch the mellow, you throw the end of the like the play or whatever. His actual numbers are out of the equation. He is transcendent when he is on the court, like they have a transcendent building block. And that is the hardest aspect of any rebuild, retool, whatever you know, general managers or team presidents want to call it these days, that's the hardest person to find. They have found him, and so now it's about like what does that doesn't even have a ceiling. But I think what I was most I don't even want to use the word concerned, because he actually took more shots at the rim than I expected him too, but his finishing was a little wonky. Do you see that being something that's that's that I think that. I think the increased strength. I think he's going to increase strength. I think that's going to be that's going to fix itself. I think that's how we training program that is. I think it's going to improve. I don't think it's going to be functionally there. I think it's going to improve to the point where we're not going to think about it nearly as much. That's the only thing that like I was concerned about was his finishing, but the jump shot, like I was never one of those. I think we'll talked about this last year too. I was never one of those that was worried about the jump shot because I thought he could get to the rim at any time, any point he wanted to. I think that increases this year because of the increased strength. I do wonder, like the only thing I wonder is does that increased strength mess with his jumper. That's the only thing I work about. And if it does cool, then that forty forty forty eighty doesn't happen. But I think we're going to see a better finishing at the rim LaMelo Ball, and I think a lot of that is going to I think a lot of that's going to change what we do, what we see with the Hornets because he becomes the primary guy on offense and maybe Gordon Hayward takes a slide down, and if that happens, this team is gonna be really, really good. This question probably ties into you know, I don't know if we need to curtail expectations for LaMelo Ball, but I will not overreact if he has a lateral season or if he hasn't improved by as much as people expect. I still see and I should mention it's probably just among fans the Hornets being listed as this playoff hopeful and you know, being interchangeable with some of the teams in the East. If LaMelo stays healthy, if Gordon Hayward stays healthy, should that really be the expectation? Though? That just feels like okay, good, m no, no, no, Like this team feels like they're a year away from being really competitive there. They feel like a year like last year. And they'll admit this to you. They've admitted it publicly. This team was ahead of schedule ninety A good sixty five percent of that was because of the emergence of LaMelo Ball. The other part was obviously the improvement of Miles Bridges the Terry roseyear, basically becoming a flame thrower. Like there were parts that they just caught the league by surprise. They're not catching the league by surprise this year. Everybody knows how to go at them and be prepared. This is no longer the load management game on the schedule, on the road trip that matters. They're going to get everybody's best shot because of LaMelo Ball and the Wonder Kid. I can see a cig scenario where they win thirty five, thirty six, thirty seven games and be a better team and just lose because they're still trying to figure it out. I don't call them a play and hope, Like the best case scenario is their six and I mean everything has to go right. We're talking Gordon Hayward plays seventy games cheapen exactly, exactly, Gordon Hayward plays seventy games. We're talking about Terry Rogier staying healthy. We're talking about book Night being Rookie of the Year. Like that's the best case scenario. And even then, I don't necessarily subscribe to that. There's a chance that they finished ten in the East and it's a successful season because why because this team got better and they're still younger and they're still trying to figure this out. This team is a year away from making noise consistently in the East. And I'm okay with that because there's a lot of these moving parts are still very, very young. And I think that's important to remember that growth is not formulaic. You can't just be measured in wins and losses. Because the East is different and it's the same thing. It's a different version of this, but like it's with the Knicks, I think they could show real progress this year, be a better team long term, and they're just going to be substantially worse than the Eastern Conference standings. If LaMelo Ball comes along, If you get great reps from James book Night, if it looks like Miles Bridges has real staying power for you as someone that you want to pay or you've already paid, and that contract looks like a bargain after the fact, that's great for them because they have the it's you know, they'll have their first round picks. Still it won't go to the Knicks and in that case, and then you get a chance to add maybe another potential long term million block and you're just dealing with I think what's most important to me from an outsider is just get more information about the younger, longer term part of this core together to see what it can be, to get a feel for it. And I also think that's why regardless of how I feel about Mason Plumley, although by the way, the fact that he had to be a salary dump like his not like they like they got JT. Thor to take on Mason Plumley, and so that does change the calculus of getting Mason Plummy for sure. I didn't think that was a contract Detroit would have to include a buffer for but I digress there. So like that's almost why I'm okay, well not almost. I am okay with them not spending big on a center, even if I don't necessarily love Mason Plumby's fit, because they're not ready to like just you know, shoot up the Eastern Conference. And so I'm happy that you said that because I think that's some people, because of how good Lamello is and also how how cool of a personality he is, that people are just gonna expect, like they need to make this leap in the standings next year, and I just I don't think that's the case. Not like if they had one more guy, I would be like, yeah, okay, it's time to make the playoffs. For me, Like this year is gravy like last year. I know you saw me say it to a whole bunch of Horn and his fans. Just enjoy the ride. They're not supposed to be here, they're not supposed to be this good this year. They're gonna be expectations and I don't like it. I don't like it at all. Dane, not like because you know what the best part about this the best part about doing this job sometimes is that you're a small market team that bubbles up and you're not expected to And again you're in the VIP section when you're not supposed to be. You don't have the wrist band that says vi IP the set. And third, you're basically enjoying VIP for free and that's cool. But at the same time, like now you're in VIP and you're actually paying for it. That's that's what this is. Now. Now people are wanting are paying for the VIP access and everything else like that, and now they're expecting to be wowed, and then they're going to realize it's just VIP. It doesn't really matter because they're only they're not getting past that velvet rope to the next thing. So fantastic analogy, by the way, for me, like this team, like this team has I have no expectations for this team because we get I'll continue to references for for the POD. But that December schedule. If you think they're going to do anything, they have to get through the basically the first two months of this schedule and be five hundred and I've made this joke before, and I'll continue to make this show. If the Hornets are five hundred or above by New Year's Day, just just give Brego that Coach of the Year award now. Because it's brutal, rutal, brutal stretch and it doesn't get any easier because teams aren't going to be as competitive as they've ever been because there's no money in tanking this year. You have to justify people come into your arena, and you have to do it in a pandemic basically, so you're gonna have to be exciting as possible. There's no gonna there's not going to be that blatant tanking that we've seen before because owners are broke that's or not broken. They need them, but they need the money, so they're gonna field competitive teams. So there's not going to be those easy nights that you normally get, those back of the back of those back of the schedule nights. Those aren't necessarily going to be there either, Like the back half of the schedule where people give up. I'm not sure you're going to see that as much of this year because owners need to justify people come into the arena and it's going to be a harder sell if you're blatantly tanking this year. So I think this is one of those years where everybody's super competitive, the like from six to twelve is separated, especially in the East and West, where both conferences are ridiculously deep this year, like six through twelve are separated by maybe three games. Like this is going to be a super super competitive playoff run this year, and the Hornets may get caught in that washed because they're super super super young. Yeah, and look, you're right to say that, especially needs because depending on how you feel about teams like the Wizards, the Pacers, the Bulls, the Raptors, assuming those teams don't turn into scare me by the way, I am troubled by how high I am on the Raptors, uh, even though I have like no idea necessarily what they're doing. But depending on how you feel about sort of those teams and including Charlotte, there's a chance that like they're only like like it's six through twelve, like you said, that could be just actually, you know what, it could be even more than that, because I'm not even convinced that after booking in Milwaukee, maybe it's Miami. Maybe it's Atlanta fools Gold. What would you say Atlanta Miami feels like Fool's Gold. Feels like fools Gold. Like they feel like a team that they're they are the old like they're the guy that's like, we're gonna do They're to see students, That's what they are. They're going. They they're possible. It's possible that they're like they could get a's if they really really tried, but they're not. They're they know what the mission is. They're gonna do just enough. They're gonna enjoy just enough. There's enough there that they're going to load management. They're going to load manage a lot. They're going to preserve Jimmy, they're gonna preserve Lowry, and it's going to be the Bam Hero and Autobio show for a lot of this season. And then once it gets to the back half of the schedule and it's time to get really get it ramped up and get it going, they'll be they'll be six, but they're going to take their time getting there, so I like they're not going to be They're They're one of those teams I can see getting caught in the wash. I can easily see them getting caught in the wash with an injury or two. But they're they feel like fools gold Like we're putting them top four and I'm not sure they're really that good. Yeah, So that's and also their offense can wind up being a slog. They're two best players like don't shoot threes, and I do think that's a problem, especially when you know PJ. Tucker is not high volume. They just don't have a ton of raw offensive talent on that team. But you know, this is to my point is that it could be there will probably be a third team that distinguishes themselves below Milwaukee in Brooklyn. I don't know if you get to four or five there. And so there's a chance that we're talking about like five through twelve in the East is just like separated by a matter of games. Uh. For Charlotte, though, what is the weakness of this roster that concerns you the most? I have a feeling we've already discussed it, but just it's the center's position. It's the center position. I think Mason plumb is good. If Mason plumblely gets hurt, you're talking about probably running carry starting. That's a problem. Wow, that is a massive, massive, great way to frame it. Like that's that's where we're at with this, Like that is a massive problem. You are a Mason plum Leo injury away from major minutes for arning carry and Kai Jones, who I don't think is ready for a center position minutes yet, Like that's where we're at with this. It's the center position I do see, Like the one like the one name we haven't brought up and I wanted to bring him up a little bit was Jalen McDaniel. And I think he's very, very useful. I think he's very very I think he's been underrated a little bit. I think he's a great three indeed stretch again three in d wing. Just I wish I wish he'd put any sort of muscle on him to put and put. Like literally, he would work as a center if he was just a little bit stronger, but physically he just does not have the frame to put the weight on to be a center. And like it's just the defensive center, the defensive like the center position. I thought it was going to be bad enough to where they were going to theoretically bring Bismack Bionbo back I still think there's a possibility of that. And I and I'm one of those as you know, that is not nearly as negative on Biz as others. I want this to work. I'm not sure it's going to work, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Bismack beyonda Charltte Horness uniform this year. That should tell you how worried I am about this position there And do you think and this is what I'm getting and this is just gonna dovetail with the next question, or I will say so about Jaylen McDaniels. I was surprised last year based off how strong he isn't and even through his first two years in the league, he's just a better finisher at the rim than I expected when you look at him. So there's that in addition to him hitting a pretty good clip of his threes last year. But so the center position, is this something you could try and to see them dressing via Trader? Do you just think that they punt on it until ideally next offseason when they have a better idea of what this team is and overall, who is the player as of this day because a lot of things can change as we go through the season, You've all people know that, But who's the player right now? Who you would bill is most likely to be traded before the deadline. Before he signed his extension, I would have said it was Terry. Now that I think now that he's on this extension. Would if if this team falls on its face, and they could easily do it at the beginning of the part of the season, If this team falls on its face, part of me says it's ubright because of that partially guaranteed contract. Right, I think it's ub right for right now, small second, and this has and things have to go completely south, and and he may just need a change of scenery. It might be PJ. I think the only way this happens. But I also think the only way PJ is is done done in this town is if Miles Turner becomes available. Because we know that they've been, like the hornets in the Pacers have been flirting with one another. And it's two to three years at this point. Yeah, at this point, yeah, like it feels like the Miles Turner deal is coming at some point. PJ. Washington is probably the guy that helps grease the skis for that. I think like, if you're telling me the two guys again, the guys that are most likely to be traded probably Oubrey and PJ. Washington, But I also don't see them. The only other way I also see them trading is if they are better than I think, Like they're either better than they expected or far far worse, and some one of the young kids explodes onto the scene and basically makes it so that he's not necessary, that one of those guys is no longer necessary. So yeah, it's those two guys, but I don't feel confident that they're making a trade this offseason during an in season trade this year, And for them, I think you could argue that it would almost be better if Turner didn't become available, because that kind of then forces them to make a decision if they are worse than expected. That's a tough call to make all of a sudden, to give up assets on a win now player when you're not set up for that. I would be curious. I don't know if they would want him with his new deal coming up, but would you give up Miles Bridges in a Miles Turner trade? No? No, no, Because I don't Miles Bridges at worst is your second best defender, Cody Martin's your best one right now. That should tell you where you are defensively. Defensively, that exactly, exactly, that should tell you where you are. I honestly am at the point where if you trade one of those two, if you trade a Miles Bridges, you're telling me that you were scared of clutch, You were scared of Clutch Sports, which, mind you, doesn't help you because do you want to know who also is a Clutch Sports client on that team? That would be Kai Jones. What happens if he explodes? So I don't think And also I think Miles matters too much. If we're talking about locker room leadership, there are two guys that you obviously go to. Terry Rogier is the first, Miles Bridges is a second. Like this team runs off the heartbeat of those two guys. They're the ones that set up the infamous Miami trip where they're down there. They were down there, they got everybody like Terry organized it Miles again. Him and Miles shot a rap video over the weekend for one of those weeks in Miami doing it. But I think Miles Bridges matters too much. Because when you can get the coaching staff, when you can get Michael friggin Jordan down there to Miami to watch a practice, that should tell you about the impact and the leadership that Miles Bridges is bringing to the team. I don't think they're I don't think they're trading that, just that, like loosely for Miles Turner for a guy that is a win, Like you said, a win now move it doesn't make sense. I'm with you. I would rather give up PJ. Washington filler and then stuff. I don't know what that stuff is. It's not James book Knight for me. Jayalen McDaniels, jayale McDaniels right there. Well, I'm thinking and it's probably tough giving the protection, but I'm assuming Indiana is gonna want some future draft equity? Is my bet in that? Yeah? Yeah, But I also like the thing with a Miles Turner deal, and this is the thing, like you gotta do something with one of those guys, whether it's a bonus or it's Turner, Like, they gotta do something, and I think you're gonna like it's almost similar to a Ben Simmons situation. It's similar, but not like in the same avenue, Like you're gonna take pennies on the dollar for whatever you're trading, and for pennies on one of those guys for pennies on the dollar. Unfortunately, it's just a matter of which one. What do you think this team's go to crunch lineup will be should be? However you want to answer that question, Lamellow, Terry Miles, PJ. Gordon. I think that's it right there. I don't think anybody cry. I don't think anyone cracks that. And the only reason any or if anyone really really cracks it, it's because Gordon's hurt. That's it. Like, those are your five best players in your five best positions. You're gonna get killed on the glass, but you're gonna score a lot, and it's literally a five out team at that point, where Gordon does what he does best and get to the mid range and nail in the canny amount of mid range jumpers. Yeah, I don't even think that there's another answer there. I'm just thinking that I don't know why you would want, like maybe against a certain team, why you want Plumbly to close. I just I don't see it. Plumbly the only way I can see plumb Like, Pj's gotta be really doghouse. And we've seen Grego called PJL for being out of shape last year. He just got to be in the doghouse for that to happen. And even then, I like Pe, I like plumbley. PJ is a better shooter. And if you're gonna want to do five out and open the floor as much as possible with the thread of the three, you're gonna need PJ in that lineup. Yeah, And I also just I just like PJ Washington, Like is it? Obviously? I think Mason Flumley's making more complex decisions with the ball. PJ Washington is so quick with his decisions and I love that. What is And this is my favorite question to ask guests during these look aheads. I don't know if there's into it as I am, but if you were the coach, what is just a quirky, offbeat, random lineup that you would insist on rolling out just to try it to see what happens. Let's see Ish Smith, who I think is going to be who I think is going to be a solid solid backup for this team. Ish book Night McDaniels Miles p J. Okay, I'm with it. I think that's gonna be a fun lineup that allows that allows your three main guys to rest on top of which, on top of which is sneaky, dunk on you good like that is one of those I'm going to roll this out on two K and see how it goes, and I'm gonna have fun and I'm gonna slide, I'm gonna outscore you and dunk on you and you're gonna throw the controller. That's the type of lineup that that is. I think it's good that the Hornets fans were watching Devonte Graham for a few seasons so that they'll be used to a point guard who can't shoot at the rim in a schmith. It's good that you guys have been for that. I think my lineup would be LaMelo, Rosier, book Night, PJ. Washington, and Miles Bridges. I don't that might even be too realistic for this exercise. But that is entirely too realistic. I can see I can see that lineup, and I can see that lineup in like like MLK day, I can see that lineup all right. Well, I'm gonna stick with it because I really want to see. But yeah, So final question here is, as of this recording their win total over under a set at thirty seven point five, would you take you over or under? And where do you see them stacking up in the east. We already kind of got into that part a little bit. I'm under, but I'm slightly under, I think, and again and will continue to beat this into the ground. I think that hold on, let me go look at this right right quick while we're doing this, because I want people to understand exactly what I mean when I say the schedule in December is brutal, because it's one of those things that want like super ugly in December. Okay, so this is why I say the under This is their December schedule before Christmas stand oh boy at the Bucks December one, at the Hawks, December five, home for the six Ers. December six, another home date against the Sixers, which, mind you, and beat has killed this team because there's no real center. The King's game is the one one of those few recipes. Then you have Luca again going to Dallas to play Luca who look again who after the first time LaMelo and them beat them has taken it personally now the Spurs game, Lazers, Sons, Jazz Nuggets, that's all before Christmas. Dan how good like like like you see what I'm saying though, that's the stretch that I think kills any chance of over thirty seven and a half. Like, I don't see like, I don't see the easy pockets of games where you think they're gonna win or they're gonna steal them. And I don't see them as the load management team. As we've gone over before, this is a team that is really that is going to be on the radar of everybody, and I don't know that this team can survive that while still trying to figure out the center position and oh yeah, they're still trying to figure out who belongs and who doesn't. At this point, there's a lot of this that that still needs to be figured out. And I don't think figuring out the fly gets you more than thirty five thirty six wins, even with Lamello. And you have to figure how many wins did they give up by letting Grant Riller go Not no, not no is there I would go under as well, just because I'm not just because but one of the reasons was it's it's the over unders in the East are tough, and I'm just I don't think that it's about this year specifically for the Hornets, and so, as you mentioned, they're not going to tank, but I could see them maybe the middle of the season focus more on are we gonna get Kai Jones real reps? What does James book Knight look like? And there's also the prospect of a Goring Hayward injury. What if Myles Bridges isn't as good and what if the center position is just disaster? What if everything else is the same as last season, but the center position is is somehow worse off. Well, well, to be fair, I was about to say the center position was a disaster election. Yeah, we don't have Bismac Bebo now, so it could textually be a little bit worse. Oh no, again, you act like they can't sign him. They can sign him in Milwaukee. Let me fighting over Bismack. Yeah even but even still, like I can this team feels like a tent, like they're going to compete for eight, nine, ten, And that's my like. If you're the Hornet's your goal is get at least one home game. Again, get one home game to play on playing. I think if they get that, it's a successful season. But I think you can get that for some reason. I think because everybody is going to be super competitive this year. I can see thirty seven wins being a seven seed, like I can see seven wins on the nose being the seventh Sea fishue. And literally they're just being that third because if you're thinking about it, the Tears, like we've talked about already, Brooklyn and Milwaukee are in a tier by themselves. If like I think Atlanta's three, I'm with you, Philly is probably four, but I don't feel good about it. You want to know who's my four right now? I think ye? Toronto, Man, I can't put no, I can't. They feel like a regular season team they would get their offense, I feel like would get slaughtered in the playoffs. They feel like a very good regular season team based on what looks like how they're going to be able to defend. That's where I stand, like I can see, I can I don't see them as four. I see them as I see them in that other tier with Miami actually like Miami, Toronto, Indiana, Boston, who I think, I don't think any of that was a flute, and I don't think they've exercised any of those timis, like I dare I say, I think like I would have had Indiana as four, had had T. J. Warrenhart not continue continue to be out, I would think I wouldn't have had Indiana's four because I think Carlisle is gonna was about to do some magic up there. I do if you had like done to my head, I probably actually know it done in my head. I think it's Boston. I think Boston has a snap back. But I think that like you said, they feel like a regular season team, so that five, six, seven, eight, It couldn't be like Chicago Nick the Knicks the heat, and I think the Hornets are like in that fourth tier that's going to be scraping and hopefully catches one of them sleeping for one of those seven or eight spots and hopefully gives at least one home game to get into the playoffs. And I think that's the goal for them. I think if they're there, I think thirty seven I think thirty seven wins can get them to at least that though, But that's that should be the goal. What I guess what would be interesting about the teams because they have Lamello. The overreaction train is ready to go. So if they if they're actually better than expected by let's say they go into Christmas or they just they let's say they eke out of December and they're like five hundred or better than five hundred, people are going to be off the walls so high on the Hornets, and I'm here for the Hornets to enter that type of mainstream overreaction conversations. I root as someone who covers with the get large for good stories but also chaos, and so I need the Hornets to be better than expected. That's what needs to happen. Here's the thing. I don't need that. I don't need that stress because I'm gonna be the one calming them, calming everybody down, like, hey, hey, hey, Gordon Hayward hasn't taken this injury sabbatical yet, guys, let's let's hold off. Let's wait to see what team is without him and everything else like that. This team, like they feel like a year away from being on that rocket ship. I want them to be good this year. Them being good made it easy to record a daily podcast, But at the same time, this team feels like, like we've talked about, the growth necessarily isn't linear to this. So if they do one of those things where they're a little bit worse, I'm trying to vocate with that, like they're gonna be a little bit worse. They're going to be one of those teams that just it just ekes out, like ninth place. They finished ninth again, Like I could see them doing that and people considering it a disappointment, and I'm gonna be the one screaming at everybody, like, have you seen that this team has gotten younger and yet somehow, somehow done the same thing. They're in a good spot for where they're supposed to be. But for now, I think, just again under like, even if they like even if they miss the playoffs altogether, this is not necessarily a bad season. Next year is going to be expectations. And next year is when you're supposed to be paying to be in vi IP, and lord knows, everybody hates to pay to be in a v IP. Is there anyone or anything about this team I didn't ask you that you think needs to be covered? Jalen, I'm going to continue to say his name, because I think when we throw, he might be the third guy, he might be number three on the list of guys that don't necessarily that don't get enough pub and he ends up being the third guy on that most likely to be trade the list. I think Jaylen mcganiels is playing for money, similar to Mouse Bridges. I think a lot of this will dictate I think a lot of his play will dictate where he goes, because right now he does not fit on this team. I do kind of wonder where his spot is and if he's going to be one of those guys that's a fill in or throwing on a trade. I think he's going to be really, really good. I think he's going to end up being somebody's in somebody's top seven, and just I don't think it's in Charlotte. And for right now, him Cody Martin, their rotation guys for a title team. It's just they're the back end, and those guys become valuable or decent throwing pieces to get additional picks. So I do wonder what happens with the back half this roster and if we're going to see a continue continual turn because I can see that happening and solidifying that top seven, top eight to where you're like, okay, we all we know all these are all these roster guys and all this roster. We'll figure out the roster by the end of this season at this point. Yeah. I mean, look, if if Jayalen McDaniels brings his three point clip back up to where it was during his rookie year when he dranted the only shot I think he was under twenty five three is total. But if that comes up from the thirty three point three percent of last season, which is not rock bottom thirty three point three percent, but that comes up, he becomes very intriguing for teams that are looking for like that wing, like bigger wing depth, the guys who can play maybe wings and the big spots. Canada. This was great as always were able to tell our listeners where they can find you and your work. Absolutely you can hear me starting on Monday, five days a week again here myself, Walker Mail. We do Locked on Harness. We try to keep it informal. We try to keep it fun. We did we literally jacked and on occasion we steal concepts for our podcast. We try to keep it fun. So we again last week. Again just Friday we ended up stealing PTI's concept, and then this again Monday. We'll probably come up with some other con concept. But you can find myself at Lockdown Hornets or at not a the Scribe. I will be screaming and live twitting about about Hornets games and filling your timeline with nothing but annoying Hornets anecdotes for the next six months. Again, it's I promise, it's not as brutal as I'm sounding. It's more fun than you think. Well, we try to turn into a party. It's fun. It's a great podcast. You're a fantastic follow so I highly endorse following not A the Scribe and a TA thh E s c R I b E. This was fantastic. As always, thank you for giving me so much of your time, and as you know by now, if you rest assured, I'll be passing you again in the future. But in what is a new theme, I will not be trolling you this season because I don't think karmically I have the bandwidth to do that anymore. You can't help yourself, Dan, No, I'm gonna resist. It's been you can't help yourself. Last again, I thank you for kai Jones. Like karmically, I thank you for kai Jones, I thank you for James book Night, and then I thank you for again the whole Obie topping thing, because you know, no one hurts more than the Kai Jon. I'm not gonna lie. It should hurt you because you passed on Tyrese Haliburton for it, your team passed on Tyrese Haliburton for Obie topping, and who mind you. We both had that discussion of, oh, dear lord, I hope he doesn't end on end up on one of our teams and guess who it is. Guess where he ended up. Guess where he ended up? Dan, Yeah, And I was so relentless with you for it too, trolling right up. That was just ah. I will not be doing it this season. I will try to resist, but it's not a thank you so much. I'll be talking to you here, dude. I love doing this. Fuck you, Sue, Mike