What's up, y'all is Drewski and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce
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Hello, Hardwood Knocks fans, This is Adam frommel here with my co
host Dan FAVALLEI. We have a special episode today about the all NBA teams.
We're going over our first team, our second team, our third team,
and because we're apparently overachievers who both somehow did this without consulting each other,
we also have a fourth team for you if anyone from the NBA is
listening. We don't have official votes. We would love to, but these
are unofficial. And this whole episode is brought to you by our sponsors deal
Dash and bet Online dot Ag. You'll be hearing from them with some promo
codes in a minute. But before we get there, Dan, how's it
going today? So refreshing to be asked how I'm doing on a podcast that
I co host. That's all that's so, I'm doing amazing. Everyone always
asked me when I'm a guest, But it's refreshing. Is now beyond on
the receiving end of that question, how are you doing? I'm doing well.
It's just nice to know that everyone cares right or at least you at
least, and even if it's superficial. Yeah, I like it. It's
it's more folk care. But you know, I'm excited to talk about all
of NBA teams though, and basketball is back and it seems to be I'm
you know, I'm like kind of a pessimist by trade with this stuff,
and so I'm I'm like cautiously optimistic now that the NBA like might be okay.
And we've already talked about how there are more moralistic things that go into
this too, where even if it can work, should they even be trying
to do it? But it's I will say one, just objectively, I'm
happy that basket like basketball has been fun to watch since it's been back.
And two, I'm obviously happy regardless of the other issues, that the Disney
campus at least seems to be doing well so far. Yeah, and it's
nice to see the NBA take it seriously enough that, you know, Kylo
Quinn missed a test, he's not allowed to play. It'd be great if
all the players did the same. Looking at you, Terrence Davis, probably
stop putting holes in your mask. God, But it is it is good
that for the most part, everyone seems to be taking it seriously and the
NBA is doing a good job. It's still it's still a little bit disconcerting
that we're watching all these resources be allocated and the focus beyond basketball, even
with the social justice focus as well. But if they're going to do it,
which they are, we have to be pleased that they're doing a good
job with it. That's the way to look at it. If they're going
to do it anyway, at least it seems like they found the way to
do it. And hey, it's at least proved to be. EON's more
effective than whatever the hell baseball is doing right now. Absolutely, and we've
had so many close fun games. I was I've been shocked by the quality
of play right off the bat, Like you can definitely see that that some
players came more prepared than others. I think the best example was the first
game of the restart where JJ Reddick, like the veteran consummate professional that he
is, he looked damn good, just showing new pieces of his game,
showing the same old piece that have made him such a successful role player throughout
his career. But like it, the quality in general has surpassed my expectations.
I'm with you, even some of the uglier stuff like Clippers Lakers,
like that wasn't the prettiest basketball, but it was just so much fun.
Maybe I was just went without basketball competitive basketball for too long, but seeing
Lebron really try guarding Paul George and Kawhi Leonard, that was spectacular. Kyle
Kuzman was hitting threes all of a sudden, like it was just and it
was a close game, Like he said, that's been the biggest thing.
I was going to wait until after the All NBA teams to ask you,
this is there like any player or team thus far, given we're so early
into the bubble or campus mesh hat, whatever you want to call it,
that's just floored you with how things have undergone, whether it's bad or good.
Yeah, I think the Phoenix Suns are a good basketball team, and
it's been a while since we've been able to say that. But Devin Booker
is incredible. DeAndre Aiden looks to keep making strides on both ends of the
floor. Ricky Rubio ended the pre hiatus portion of the season season on this
absolute tear. He's continued to play effectively. They have depth, they have
top level talents, and I don't think that they're going to make any noise
this season aside from proving their competitiveness and earning respect from other teams they're playing
against, But watch out for them next year. Yeah. I was actually
gonna cite Michael Bridges, who's been like my Sirens song for quite some time.
And I know Suns fans are quick to point out that they've been in
on him for a while, so congratulates them. But he's going to be
ridiculously good if he becomes like the offensive constant that he's kind of been since
in the past play stopped, but just the past few months that ends up
being huge. Just playmaking off like on his drives is really just subtly great.
And if you have that three player base with Booker, Eton and Bridges,
you're in good shape. Cam Johnson is good too. You have Ricky
Rubio there. I think they're like a power like a perfect fitting power forward
away from being a consensus playoff team. Would be the way imagine if they
still had TJ. Warren, who they just gave away. I mean,
we're still complimenting the Suns, but they do deserve criticism for that because t
J. Warren has probably the single most impressive performance of the bubble experience so
far with his fifty three spot. And I think it's like a disservice to
him when people are including him in that Tony Delk Corey Brewer conversation as the
most unlikely fifty P scorers because he has been such an effective scorer and has
been improving and this wasn't like some totally out of nowhere performance based on what
we'd seen earlier this season. Yeah, TJ. Warren's always been kind of
a bucket with smoking face emoji. The one thing I'll say, in sort
of the Sun's defense, look they needed to get They never should have just
gotten cash considerations for TJ. Warren. But he also would have never been
this good defensively in Phoenix, because Indiana just turns whatever they get in terms
of wings just into good defenders. And I also don't think he was the
best fit for this roster specifically because Kelly Uber Junior was already there at that
point they were planning on. Part of the reason that they moved Warren was
that they could afford with Rubio and and Kelley Bridge Junior, so they needed
to get more. But I don't think that we can act like they missed
out on this like talent who would have pushed them over the top, which
is how it was being framed. After a fifty three spot, I will
also have gotten the touches either next to Aiden and Rubio and Booker, and
he is one of the guys that like kind of in the vein of Marcus
Morris where they can hit their catch and shoot threes or jumpers because India doesn't
take enough catch and shoot threes if they're also getting the required number of touches
because they're so much more comfortable on ball, and Indiana afforded him that opportunity
in away that Phoenix this season would not have the other thing. I'll say
it is way, way, way way worse to only receive cash considerations for
your G League team. Yes, that was also not the greatest move and
just kind of representative of the franchise in general under server. And that's why
if he want to doubt whether the Suns will make the playoffs next year or
anytime soon, I'm willing to roll with you, not because someone in the
G League would have helped them get there, but because that's the line of
thinking that goes on behind the scenes. Yeah, that's totally valid. It's
like the polar opposite of the new like Model franchise, which is the Toronto
Raptors. And that's been one of my other big takeaways from the bubbles so
far, as like, you know, if you were doubting Toronto's legitimacy before
that the NBA went on hiatus, shame on you. If you still are
extra shame on you. Because this is absolutely a contending team. Nick Nurse
is a very deserving Coach of the Year candidate, even if he's not going
to get the award. The team has depth. Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siakam
are incredible. Everyone on that team plays defense, and we're going to talk
more about them on the All NBA Teams. I'm sure I'm with you too
this podcast. We can be proud to say it feels like they've been in
on the Toronto Raptors appropriately, But I'm actually amazed. I must have followed
the right people on Twitter, because I'm not. I wasn't seeing all the
anti Raptors takes in the first place, and now all the people are coming
out saying, oh, you slept on the Raptors. I'm like, I
didn't see anyone sleeping on them in my timeline, but maybe I follow too
many people on rap or Twitter, which whatever that ends up working out.
So yeah, they're Look, they're the biggest threat in the East to Milwaukee
to me, and that was before the restart. It's not just the byproduct
of Boston's poor game against Milwaukee since the restart itself, just the way they
defend. My big question with them would be their half court offense is does
Kyle Lowry put enough pressure on the rim as their primary score when things bogged
down? And can you turn to Pascal Siakam in those situations and be confident
that he can create I would lean towards yes, and Nick Nurse does a
good job of kind of forcing him into those situations. But that's still the
question mark for them. But if they're going to be competent in the half
court, it would it wouldn't come close to surprising me even now if they're
not. If they're the team that comes out of the East, I feel
like Nurse has some wrinkles he's saving for the actual playoff games too. I
don't know what there's are going to be, but I have confidence that they're
coming. Is it gonna be a ginormous lineup where it's Siakam gasol Abaka and
then maybe o G at the two, and then they can put Powell at
the one, or maybe I feel like Kyle Lowry by law has to be
in any Raptors lineup that matters. So if you're playing the bucks, put
a lot of size around the rim with guys who can still defend on the
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slash knocks. D e a l Dash dot Fm slash knocks my one,
well, not one, but one of my big takeaways or something that something
seems up with Dallas, like not in a good way. And I think
it was a question everyone was asking beforehand, where what's going to happen?
Can they win in crunch time when Luke is really their only true shot creator
And after losing two games in crunch time and blowing to double digit leads,
that question still stands Don Chich in Sunday Night's loss to Phoenix did a great
job of attacking the rim and crunch time in ways that he hasn't really done
earlier this season. But they still feel one substantial player short and maybe a
little bit further away from contention than people build them for initially. If one
substantial player short is actually considered close, then that's fine. I'm very curious
to see how they go about getting that guy, because they've sort of depleted
their trade stores with the kristaps Porzingish trade their picks unless you go really distant
into the future, they're not that valuable because don Chache is really good.
And then their trade assets are just like actual players are. They can match
money, but unless you're trying, like are they going to go out and
combine all their salaries into getting Chris Paul this summer? I mean, I
would totally do it. That would be fantastic, But I don't know what
the ceiling on a trade is, and so that sort of leaves you with,
can we get a difference maker using the mid level exception or during that
small window in twenty twenty one when Dontage is still on his rookie scale and
they'll have they can have excuse me, max cap space, are they able
to poach someone. This actually feels like something that could be a longer term
issue because christ Ops Zincis is really good. They won that trade. The
Knicks are a blustering, sorry excuse for an organization, not defending that in
anyway, but I don't know that what he brings is what you need as
a pure number two score, particularly in the half court and then especially during
crunch time. I kind of feel like they're going to make a surprising acquisition
with the mid level exception somewhere down the road, just because people are gonna
want to go play with Don Chichen Chris stops. But regardless, this is
a good problem for Dallas to have, because we're talking about how they're not
quite true contenders because they're missing a piece without really acknowledging how ridiculously far ahead
of schedule they already are. They weren't supposed to be a playoff team going
into this twenty nineteen twenty season, much less a playoff lock in the bubble.
I mean, they're they've exceeded expectations so dramatically that we have very knowingly
shifted the goalposts on them. We definitely shifted the goal post. But I
just I'm I would be worried that they could get locked into similar territory just
because when you look at their books, they have that work. Because once
you max out Don Chitch and you have him and Porzingis on max is like
the idea of having Immen's flexibility at any point in the near future, that
that sort of goes out the window a little bit. And so I don't
I don't know what their path to getting the player they need would be unless
Tim Hardaway Junior opts out this summer, which I don't expect, and then
they can create cap space, which very few teams have, and then you
get into conversations for anyone you want. You know, Fred van Vleet would
look good on this team. I don't know if he's the actual answer,
but that's the that's the question I have for them. Yeah, it's it's
a valid one. I think that it's a it's a strange situation because Rick
Carlisle alone always guaranteed some level of competitiveness just because he could turn anyone in
the rotation into a quality piece. And we've seen that for years and years
and years. So we're already operating with a high floor. And then Don
Chich expediting the growth of the franchise in some ways might almost limit the ceiling
a little bit, as you alluded to, because you're preventing yourself from getting
any more top draft picks that you might have been expected. You know,
it wouldn't surprise me if the Dallas front office going into this season was sitting
there thinking, like, we know, Don Chitch is going to be awesome,
but we're probably going to get one more to draft pick before we're really
a true postseason lock, and by getting there already, it's interesting. Yeah,
it's also fair to say, are you ready for my last takeaway?
That's probably a little bit spicier than it needs to be, and it's really
almost based on nothing that I've seen. I'm always ready for that. The
Bucks, who I would still pick to come out of the East. I
kind of feel like they are gonna need to trade brook Lopez after this season.
Wow, that is very spicy. I don't if you told me that
he's going to start shooting better from three, and he's just been terrible on
wide open threes this year under thirty percent. Maybe I feel a little bit
better, but something's just I don't the game against the Rockets. Maybe I'm
reading too much into I don't want to see them trying to post him up
as much. But the other thing is I really think there it needs to
be like a Marvin Williams type player at center alongside Janni's attend to Kompo long
term and maybe someone who and this is not as much to do with brook
Lopez, who's not going to hold the Bucks back from being you know what,
we need to go with Jannis at the five, like Jannis needs to
be the five. I'm not saying start him there, but those lineups need
to be given more minutes so that we can create some of our own mismatches
there. And look, if you're not gonna if he's not gonna hit his
threes two or you're not even gonna really ascribe real three point volume to him
in certain games, which they haven't. Now you're dealing with Bletso wasn't in
this game. But I'm saying, long tertain, Bletso, Brooke and Jannis,
those are three non or i'll say below average shooters on the floor.
Because we know Lopez and Bletso and even Jannis are willing to shoot. It's
a concern. And three years and thirty nine point nine million dollars, I'm
not sure it's the best value for him. And so if I'm the Milwaukee
it surely depends on how this season finishes. But if it ends in anything
but a title, I'm looking at seeing if Lopez plus Bletso plus you're gonna
need more salary than that, but you have some of it to offer,
it might be time to go swing and be like, hey, okay,
see what's it gonna take to get CP three. Maybe it takes a third
team who would want Lopez's contract. I don't know how Lezo's contract with two
guarantee years left on it would be, but that's just sort of where I'm
at With Milwaukee. I still would pick them to come out of the East,
but I almost feel like having Brook Lopez on the roster almost prevents them
from rolling out what would be the best late game version of themselves. And
maybe that's a stupid way to look at it. I have so many scattered
thoughts right now, so I'll just try to lay them out. One is
that I would love to see, and I don't know what the path to
make this happen looks like. I would love to see Danilo Gallinari next to
Jannis on this team instead of Brook Lopez and really lean into Jannis at the
five. I feel like it would be an interesting mix. You would definitely
have that functional shooting, but yeah, I don't know how you go about
getting there. As for Lopez himself, I'm not as concerned as you.
I think that he's demonstrated enough shooting ability in the past for me to kind
of write this off as a season long weird shooting funk that is very much
reversible because he is generating open looks, and those are open looks that he's
hit in the past, and that's not really a skill that just plummets at
this stage of his career, so it's not as much of a concern for
me. I will say last year is the only season he's ever hit more
than thirty five percent of his threes since he started taking threes in twenty sixteen
twenty seventeen on a regular basis. Thirty four point six percent, thirty four
point five percent, thirty six point five percent last year, twenty nine point
six percent this year, So it's a big difference. Though it's a big,
big difference. He's also never been like this elite shooter right right,
But he doesn't need to be elite. He just needs to do enough to
draw defenses out there. I'm also not worried about anything we see from the
Bucks during their eight game regular season restart, because they have nothing to play
for. The award races are wrapped up because the NBA decided that only the
pre high this portion of the season was going to count for those They for
all intense and purposes, have they actually locked. I forget they have.
They have not clinched yet. I don't think they haven't clinched number one,
but like they should have, like for all intents and purposes, they have.
So I feel like the Lopez post ups, the lack of three is
from Yannis. They're just messing around and like trying to figure things out,
playing with intensity, but like not necessarily revealing the true hand we're going to
see in the playoffs. So I just I have trouble like getting any takeaways.
It's from that team, and it's how I'll feel about the Lakers too.
It's maybe this point forward and again, and maybe it was just a
weird inkling from that Rockets game, But if you also told me that Bud
would be willing to close games with Jannis at the five, because I feel
like the idea of taking brook Lopez off the floor seems ludicrous because he's borderline
all defense this season, and so that's what I'm worried. I still think
there might be a better version, or a more suited version in a lot
of matchups for the Bucks to tap into and the Rockets, obviously you wouldn't
meet them until the finals, but even a team like the Celtics. It
might even be it depends on what Toronto's actually closing with, but it could
be true versus Toronto. Maybe it could definitely be true with Miami. So
I that's just where I'm at. And that's not that I'm not trying to
denigrate for Glopez, who's had a fantastic defensive season and he's also a pretty
good post up score. But that's just a weird inkling I have, and
that I think that might be zooming too far out into the future as well.
It could be, But come on, tell me you don't want to
see an Eric Bledsoe, Dante de Vincenzo, Chris Middleton, Janis and Gallo
lineup. Gallo is just impossible to get because he's gonna be so expensive you
would have to trade for him. I know. It almost has to be
like a weird sign and trade situation. Tell me you don't want to see
Chris Paul, Chris Middleton and Janie and then whoever they fill out. Let's
say George Hill is in that. No, like Chris Paul, Middleton and
Janie that I want to see Chris Paul anywhere? Like, you don't have
to sell me on seeing him in any lineup I did see people were saying
that I can't wait to see Chris Paul and a contender again. I just
want to say, news flash, that it wouldn't shock me if Oklahoma City
made it to the conference finals. Wow, you're gonna bet on Chris Paul
in the playoffs? Yes, He's been historically great in the playoffs and his
teams just haven't won. So yes, I'm gonna bet on Chris Paul in
the playoffs as you should. Speaking of elite as you brought up, though,
I feel like maybe it's time to get into these all NBA all NBA
jams. Unless you have any quick thoughts on the Jonathan Isaac turn left ACL
just such a bummer. I mean, we saw so much growth from him
early in the season, just becoming more than this defensive Player of the Year
caliber stopper. He was starting to show a lot more than just flashes on
the offensive end. We saw it again very briefly in Disney before the ACL.
It's just it's a shame when any young up and coming player, especially
one that has such an excitable game on the court, goes down like it's
never fun to see and this now, I would probably agree with everything you
just said. The only one of the long term concerns I've always had with
him is that there's just a chance where his offensive type of game doesn't even
really fit at the four unless you put a very specific type of five around
him, because he doesn't really have a floor game, and he hasn't shot
threes well or in high volume, and so one of those things needs to
change so that you don't need to view him as like this day fact of
five on offense. But this now jeopardizes next season for him, which in
turn kind of complicates what the Magic are doing because they don't have the worst
contracts, but they're also not flexible, and it's like, what's the pathway
to get better? How much sense does it make to trade Aaron Gordon now
when Jonathan Isaac's not going to probably play next year. And one of the
reasons you would trade Aaron Gordon is either one you're just out on him,
or two because the logjam with Isaac and Gordon and Voots just doesn't really make
sense. They have a lot of They've had awkward questions to answer before,
but now even more so, I would say, knowing that he's not going
to be and look, the next time he plays could be when he's on
his next deal because he's extension eligible this summer. And so what do you
do about that? I really struggle to see a path forward for the Charlotte
Hornets, I mean the Orlando Magic, who are just now stuck on pretty
tread honest. Yeah, but Horns belong in that statement too, So you
were just right on both fronts. All NBA teams, though, Are you
ready? I'm as ready as I've been since the start of this one.
I know we're originally planning on doing our Bubble conversation afterwards, but the best
laid plans and all that, we're the worst laid plans because it is this
podcast. Yeah, that's fair. So we agreed to go buy position.
We'll go positions through the three teams, since all NBA teams are still done
by position, and I believe we're both want we both want the NBA to
get rid of positions on the All NBA team, like positions in general are
dumb. Let's just get that out of the way from the start. I
don't know if I'm actually allowed to say that as someone who doing NBA one
Bleach report, I have to rank by position, but yes, get rid
of positions, please, positions are dumb. I'm allowed to say it.
Look, the ll NBA discussion could then be we did point this out,
But that would be a fun discussion. It would just be the best fifteen
players in the lead that year, and that's that's obviously debate in and of
itself. I think it's a more fun discussion than trying to like shoehorn worst
players into these spots because we have to, right, and that's nothing against
these players, because you know, the fifteen slash twenty that we're gonna highlight
are all fantastic. They'd be in that conversation for those top fifteen spots.
But I would much rather like acknowledge how guard heavy and wing heavy the league
is and give credit where credit is due. And look, it does hamstring
like the big just a little bit too, because now you only have three
spots on the roster anyway, and in a season, if In Beid plays
more in comm Anthony Towns plays more like, that becomes like an issue.
But the NBA is like clearly conscious of this and trying to make some exceptions
by like somehow making Nikolai Yokich eligible at a forward spot, which doesn't make
any sense. And Lebron James is very much a positionless player, but he
hasn't been eligible at guard in the past, and now that we're putting him
there as well, it's like he's not eligible to be voted in amongst guards
for the All Star Game, but he's you could put him in for the
All It's just very it's all very arbitrary, very much so. And I
don't I don't know why they're trying to preserve positions. I don't know if
maybe and this isn't wouldn't be an insult to them, but maybe the more
casual fans appreciate positions. I would argue that no one who listens to this
podcast likes the positional designations just because of what this brand is. But if
you do, that's that's fine. I'm just curious as to what the loyalty
to the positions actually is. Well, to be clear, it's not fine,
get over yourselves. Okay, fair enough. If someone is listening to
this and still is in favor of having positional designations, let us know so
that we can we can talk you out of it. Well, I would
know. I would like to hear their argument. I'm not going to be
as just right to hear their argument and then we can shut it down.
Please go to me with your cases for the positions first, and then we
will bring them to Adam together. I'll be the positional arbiter here. Sports
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You're online wagering experts. Okay, So on that note, do you want
to start with guards or centers. Can't start with fowards. I'm not allowing
it. I mean, I like that you're making me choose a position now
after our last segment here, but let's start with guards. Do you want
to roll us off with the first team because I believe we were consensus on
the first team guard. Yeah, it's it's It's pretty obvious here. I
mean, James Harden was the best true guard if that's even a thing in
the league this year, and I'm gonna have him joined by Lebron James,
who, as we said, is eligible at guard, leading the league and
assists. Now, the cases here are are so incredibly obvious. They're two
of the top three MVP candidates this season. They're both the unquestioned leader of
their team playing at a remarkably high level. Lebron is to do everything die
Harden is one of the absolute best offensive forces we've seen in NBA history,
and there's absolutely no one who should challenge them for either of these spots.
Yeah, even with Harden's kind of like rut leading into the the NBA's hiatus,
it just wasn't enough to be like, hey, let's put don Jich
over him in this case, Yeah, I don't really have anything to add,
Like, I just feel like there's not much too at all. The
only discussion would be like, why is Lebron at guard if he wasn't listed
there for the All Star Game? But since he's eligible at guard, Like,
we have to finagle these teams the best way possible, So I'll take
us to the second team guards. I have Chris Paul and Damian Lillard as
do I. Look, we're consensus sharing the same brain here, I wis
are less obo right, So I don't know if people will definitely pick Chris
Paul, but he should be to me consensus MBA inclusion. He is like
one of the three highest offensive rating swings in the league. They are so
dependent on him for his offense. He's shooting a trillion percent from mid range.
He's made more buckets in crunch time than anyone in the NBA, where
he's basically just slashing an absurd percentage in crunch time. I even have that
written down in my notes. I think he's no, I don't have it
written down my notes, but he's just been Oh, he's slashing fifty four,
thirty six, ninety four in crunch time situations with an individual plus minus
rating of one O nine. The only two people higher than him are actually
his teammates Truder and Shakilos Auxander, which shows you how ridiculous the thunder has
been. And then with Lillard, maybe people will penalize him for Portland's record.
I find that to be weird, just given how many injuries they dealt
with. And also Lillard has been ridunculous twenty nine points eight assists on sixty
true true shooting in a league leading thirty six point nine minutes per game,
all of which our career highs. He's shooting the best that he has basically
of his career inside three feet. The fact that he's shooting almost forty percent
from three on just a high number of really hard attempts his mind boggling.
More than seventy percent of his threes go unassisted. And the thing that I
keep pointing to is that the Blazers differential with him on the court is that
of a playoff team, and it just plummets by almost nine points per one
hundred possessions when he's off. That matters to me because maybe, yes,
I do believe it's harder to do what Jannis does taking a really good team
to greatness, but like he's also this isn't him taking a mediocre team to
okayness. They're really bad without him on the court, and they look really
bad because the personnel that they've had available to this point. Both of these
guards are the unquestioned reasons that their teams are in playoff contention. And that's
more true for the Thunder than the Blazers at this stage of the restart.
But you know, without Chris Paul, who is playing very much like vintage
Chris Paul, with the mid rage jumpers, with the ability to get everywhere
on the court and dictate offense and control where his man goes on the defensive
end, Without him, they are not anywhere. But in the lottery conversation,
that's especially true, as you mentioned, in those crunch time situations,
you know, the NBA, the standard definition is the last three minutes of
games separated by or the last five minutes of games separated by five or fewer
points either. Here, Nikola Yokich has been the best player in crunch time
this season among high volume players who have been in that situation a lot.
So he's in the MVP discussion on the back end of the ballot, and
he absolutely belongs here. As for Lillard, just an offensive juggernaut, a
player who continues to get better and showcase new pieces of his game every season.
We're seeing more deep threes this season, We're seeing them find nine line
more frequently, and he might have the highest HIE of any player this season.
That stretch that he had in late January and early February, the rolling
player ratings that we use at NBA math the peak that he reached this season,
which looks at his ten game stretch and adjust for the difficulty of the
opponent, the location of the game, all of that stuff. His score
was thirty five point two on February first, which is one of the ten
highest scores in NBA history. It is easily the highest score this season.
The only other player who has even topped thirty is James Harton Janis, for
example, has only gotten too twenty eight point one one, donchich to twenty
eight point seven seven. So the singular stretch that he had right around the
All Star break before he got hurt was just so fantastic and captivating that that
alone is going to put him in contention for these spots. Yeah, he
was volcatic during that stretch, and so I think that this should be given
how the NBA structures his ballots, where Dontage can be a forward, you
don't have to worry about picking one or the other. I think that this
should this should probably be consensus. Second team, I hope, so who
do all? Right? So third team guards, this will be less consensus,
and I believe it's your turn to take us through them. Yeah.
I had Kyle Lowry in my first spot and Ben Simmons in the second,
two very very different players. I'm not sure that there's really like a statistical
objective case for Kyle Lowry because so much of what he does is the kind
of play that doesn't show up in the numbers. It's not represented in the
box score because he's taking charges, he's making the right decisions on both ends,
he's involving his teammates, he knows how to find the hot guy.
He has been one of the best players in the NBA for the last decade
without people really realizing it. And I'm not sure that he's going to get
recognized in this spot because the scoring numbers aren't there. The assistant numbers aren't
always there, but he has been unbelievable and is even more so than Pascal
Siakam. In my opinion, the biggest reason that the Toronto Raptors have remained
a championship contender is because of Kyle Lowry. As for Ben Simmons, it's
all about the defense. He isn't going to be the defensive Player of the
Year this year, but he is probably the most versatile defender in the league.
He's able to shut down so many different positions and give the seventy six
ers an identity beyond just Joe l Embiad's rim protection, his playmaking, his
ability to get to the rim even without a jumper. He's been effective on
offense, and it's just that that all around ability minus the three point shot
that has been so fantastic all year. Look at the thing with so mine,
I did not have Simmons on my third team. I did consider him.
Simmons has been his workload. I think people underestimate too. Christner Narsu
from Nylon Calculus has this two way primary usage metric where he measures the amount
of time a player spends as number one option on offense and then the amount
of time they spend guarding the number one option on defense. Ben Simon says,
the highest two way workload in the NBA by that metrics, So he's
definitely a deserving choice. I have Kyle Lowry, though, and Jayson Tatum.
I could only echo what you said about Lowry, and your last point
is the most salient one. He is the through line connecting every single version
of the raptors we've seen since he's been there, of which there are many.
It's not just going from demarterrozen to Kawai to whatever they have now,
but just looking at the struggles they had in the postseason where they would just
continue to get booted by Lebron. There was a point where it looked like
they were going to trade Lowry himself to the Knicks. This organization has undergone
many changes, and I think last season obviously was the darkest because you traded
Tomar you ended up trading Jonahs Valanciunis. But that has to matter too,
And it's like you said, a statisticals case is always going to be the
strongest, even though advanced metrics are going to love him. That to me
has to carry some weight as well. But what he can do for his
team. I mean, he will set up two to three shots on the
same possession for his team without even dominating the ball because he's gonna set screens
or just his placement on the floor, is he gonna end up helping them.
And he really works his ass off on defense. If you want to
argue that maybe his game is a little bit less valuable in the playoffs unless
he has someone to defer to, that might be. That's a case that
I'm willing to listen to. But he is still He's a top twenty player
in this league and should absolutely be in this discussion. And then I had
taied him for my thirteen because one he was eligible at guard, which allowed
me to put other people in that I wanted to. His season has been
I've mentioned this already kind of boiled down to this month long or six week
long rise, and it's just so much more than that. His escape dribble
three is one of the most dangerous weapons in the league. He's one of
the best off ball defenders in the league as well. I know people are
disappointed, some of them at least, that his playmaking hasn't really incurred this
huge uptick when they've basically doubled his pick and roll volume and really just his
responsibility overall. It's a fair concern. You'd like to see him get to
that Chris Middleton type level, but he has shown a knack for throwing more
complicated passes. I will still admit that his absence of playmaking at a higher
level can be a problem against certain defenses, and we've maybe already seen it
with Milwaukee. And then he's reliant on a high variant shot selection, which
is what pull up jumpers are. But he has n't putting a little bit
more pressure on the rim in recent months, maybe not since the Disney restart,
but before hand. And just a very good player fringe top ten this
season, and that's because we're factoring in injuries and things like that. So
just a clear if he's gonna be eligible at guard, I'm gonna pick him
to put him on there. He's the best player on what is one of
the five or six best teams in the league, and that has to count
for something. I'm gonna save my Jason Tatum thoughts for a little bit later
in this episode for reasons that will become clear. Then I didn't want to
follow up on Lowry. Is he a Hall of Famer? That's a good
question. So he has six All Star appearances, He's only made one All
NBA team, and I don't think that's going to be a second one this
year. He made the twenty fifteen sixteen third team. He's only appeared on
an MVP ballot once. It was in the same season he finished tenth,
and yet Basketball References Hall of Fame probability eighty five point seven percent. I
think he is. I think he is. I would say I think that
the volume, the championship, the ability to transcend through multiple eras for the
same franchise and become so iconic for that organization, I think he's in.
I actually agree with you. I just didn't want to be the first one
to say it. I don't think I am surprised that his Hall of Fame
probability percentage is yes, I know, yeah that. I honestly expected it
to be below fifty percent when I checked, but no, eighty five point
seven percent. I thought it might have been like an Igodala type situation.
I forget what his Hall of Fame probability was, but it was basically a
coin to us. Was it not? So? I might have expected him
to be the same. I will say he could probably turn himself anecdotally into
a shoeing if he's not there already, depending on what the Raptors do in
this year's postseason, if they win this title, put him in now.
Don't even wait for him first. No, it's it's interesting though. The
Hall of Fame probability leaderboard, the players who are next to him, I'll
just read the eighties. We have Dave Being at eighty, Anthony Vis at
eighty one, James Worthy at eighty two, Grant Hill eighty three, Adrian
Danley, Jack Sikma, Jojo White than Kyle Lowry is eighty seventh all time
in the Hall of Fame probability in DEX, followed by Chauncey Billups and David
Buscher. Those are some good names to be along. Those are some great
names to be next to. Who did you? Who did you? Who
else did you? Unless you have anything to add on this, who did
you consider? Just like, what's your fourth team for? Just for fun?
Guards? Yeah, my fourteen and I really struggled with this one because
I had I had three names that I really wanted to well really four names,
but we'll get to one of them later. Bradley Beale, Trey Young,
and Devin Booker. I ultimately left off Booker and hated myself for doing
so, just because Beale was so explosive and Young was so deadly as a
as an assist man and a scorer on teams that didn't have the ability to
draw defensive attention away from them. Booker has some better pieces around him.
You know, the Hawks would have with John Collins had he not been suspended
for what essentially amounted to half the season that the Hawks played. But because
of what they were able to do as one man juggernauts on the offensive on
the offensive end, I wasn't ever going to consider them for one of the
actual spots on the top three teams because winning does have to matter. But
I wanted to give them some love there. Yeah, I think that's all
fine. I had Russell Westbrook and Devin Booker. I wasn't really tempted to
put either of them in over my current selections of Lowry and Tatum. The
harder choice would be, as you'll see later, involved Ben Simmons. But
because I decided that Ben Simmons should be eligible at forward, but Devin Booker.
Russell Westbrook's case is clear. He was a monster for basically more than
half the season, and it was a little bit before the Rockets went to
the smaller units. I just don't I still question his ability to carry them
without Harden. Those numbers are all over the place. They're net negative on
the year, their net positive since January first, net negative since Clint Capella
left the rotation, which is arguably the more important sample size because that's when
they went super duper small just two. And then the fact that this was
like a tale of two or three seasons for him, I think worked against
him. For Devin Booker, just the level of growth he has shown as
a passer and scorer is amazing. He can get buckets at every level and
he's just doing so super efficiently. He's on pace since the regular season isn't
over to be the tenth player to clear twenty five points and five assists per
game with a true shooting percentage better than sixty one. I know these aren't
perfect comparisons, and there's a level of cherry picking to them, but his
company is James Harden, Lebron, James Michael Jordan, Stephen Curry, Kevin
Durant, Larry Bird, Janis, Isaiah Thomas, and I bet you could
guess the season that happened in and Damian Lillard. So he's just been fantastic,
And so why I do think you can make a case for a Trey
Young over him, or even a Bradley Beal over him. I felt like
his minutes ended up meaning more than theirs, at least more so than Beals
for sure. And maybe the fact that the Suns are in the bubble at
all speaks to that. Yeah, I have no counter arguments to that.
It really for me, you could have picked two of those of those three
Beal, Young and Booker. And to any Rockets fans who are listening and
are firing off hate tweets to me for not mentioning Westbrook. Yet, we'll
get there. I promise we're onto forwards. So who did you have on
your first team of forwards, which we are also in lockstep with I don't
think we were actually then, never mind we were not. I think we
have one difference on the first team here because I had Jannas, which duh,
he should be the consensus MVP. So that pretty much goes without saying,
and I did not have Kawhi Leonard because I had Luca don Chich taking
that spot. What he did, as as we talked about earlier, moving
the Mavericks's time frame so far up, he struggled in crunch time, but
there were so many games where that wasn't necessary. It didn't adder that he
struggled in those clutch situations because he'd pushed the Mavericks so far ahead by the
time we even got to the fourth quarter. He is the impetus behind the
most efficient offense in NBA history. He is carrying an immense workload on the
offensive end and still managing to show some defensive improvements. He involves all of
his teammates. He can score from everywhere. He's very much a candidate for
Most Improved Player if you're willing to consider second year contributors. He's been absolutely
phenomenal, and he's played a little bit more than Kawhi Leonard, and the
minutes that he's played have generally come at full bore, which I'm not sure
you can always say about Leonard Until later in this season. I thought the
minutes so I had Kawai and Janis as my powers bots the Jannis One is
an arguable let's just let's move on Ron good for great. Yeah, I
don't think Luca played enough minutes, like didn't play it like he was at
what is he at right now? Don't she sas at eighteen seventy nine for
the season and Kauai is at seventeen oh three, So it's not a huge
difference, but I do think that the intensity in all of those minutes it
is a little bit different. I feel like Leonard kind of flipped the defensive
switch midseason though, and a half season at Leonard like really getting accurate ends
up being a huge deal for me, And so the responsibility that he shouldered
on both sides of the ball this year because of how many pick and rolls
he was running for Los Angeles, particularly at the beginning of the season,
and then of course his defensive bandwidth just ends up mattering more to me.
And then Don's crunch time struggles really waited heavily here, and I understand that
you can't penalize him for the players he has around him, but also a
shot selection in there was just a tick uncomfortable if you just look at it.
He was getting to the taking a few of the shots in the restricted
area and settling a little too relying on those step backs and when you're not
hitting that, like hitting that at a thirty to thirty three percent clip is
great in general, but that high variance when it matters most, it's unsettling.
I'd say the same thing for James Harden. He's probably hitting them at
a higher clip. I have not checked that though, so that splicing hairs.
But that's what you need to do in these debates, right, And
I think Leonard is probably going to be the consensus pick here, and I
get it. I really strongly considered it. And this wasn't an attempt to
be contrarian so much as just to recognize the importance that Don Chich had on
that team, especially because we didn't know what we were going to get out
of Chris Stops all season. He wasn't there the whole season. He was
working his way back into form, and Don Chich alone pushed this team into
contention. Second team though I had and I had and I had Kawai,
and I think we agreed on the other one, which is Jimmy Butler.
Right, yeah, if you you know what's funny when people say if only
he could shoot, think about how good he can be. It's so weird
because that's such a fundamental skill that if you don't have it, to just
say something like that as if you're gonna get it, it's way too dismissive
of it. But Jimmy Butler has shown he's a better shooter in season's past,
and yet he's shooting like zero percent on threes this year. He's the
second worst pull up jump shooter in the league this season behind I think it
was it was it Aaron Gordon, That's who he was behind. He was
the second worst among people who took at least three pull up jumpers per game
and pull up effective field goal percentage. So that's not great for him.
But his defense it was there this year, and he carried some really what
could have been stinker lineups before the trade deadline. And then the responsibility he
shouldering on offense career high and assists per game, putting just basically more pressure
on the rim than ever getting to the line at a ridiculously high clip,
and the heat or just substantially better and when he's on the court, and
so it's it's weird to say, but he's had one arguably one of his
worst shooting seasons, and yet he's still probably a fringe top ten player.
I felt comfortable putting him here. I didn't think for a minute really of
putting Actually I thought for like a half minute about putting one of my third
team forwards in front of him. But look, he shot thirty seven twenty
percent on two point jumpers this year two point jumpers, and he's made second
team All NBA. That's really I don't think it's an engagement, like a
lock for this spot. To me right, no one expected the heat to
be this good, and it's very much because of him. I don't want
to say we've rushed the coronation of bam Adebaio, but I still don't completely
trust him as a lynchpin of your defense, and he can't anchor offensive units
on his own. In theory, yes, but he doesn't have the range
in the half court. And I also just don't think he's ready to run
half court sets full time. And that's not a knock, that's something that's
like, oh, he was a backup for most of last year, and
now we're talking about him as a top twenty five player. So this is
more of a compliment to Jimmy Butler, and so forty three percent of his
attempts are still just coming at the rim. That's just absolutely mind melting.
And because he's putting so much pressure on the rim and half court defenses,
you can absolutely still rely on him in crunch time. I think the best
way I can put it is about how good he's been in the non shooting
areas, is that if he had if he had knocked down three pointers like
he did during his best seasons with the Chicago Bulls, I'm looking at like
twenty fourteen fifteen, his first All Star appearance, when he took three per
game and made thirty seven point eight percent of them, if he was able
to replicate that without changing any other portions of his game, I think we
have an MVP debate. Yeah, I mean you're probably. I think he's
been that good his I think we almost take his defense for granted now,
just because of how long he's been doing it, and maybe because his personality
or someone likes Bolstra too right, and maybe maybe his personality is too grading
off the courts that creates voter fatigue when there really hasn't been enough vote for
him to be fatigued. But because you know that he was the one who
called the snitch line on himself in Disney for working out too loudly. You
just know that Jimmy Butler called and said, I think someone from Jimmy Butler's
room is working out way too loudly. I could just I could picture it
now. Yes, someone's working out too loudly. And I think I even
feel like they have just this unparalleled commitment to winning, and it's just it's
it's too loud. Do you think it's performative, because it definitely like it
marves me the wrong way. You don't, you don't, I'm okay.
I hate the idea that like you're going to show up to a practice three
hours early at three am and try to inspire your teammates do the same,
Like, hey, we know how much sleep matters for athletic performance, Like
you are not listening to medical advice here, And I wonder if like he's
not making himself as good as he could be by trying to make himself like
appear to have the greatest work ethic in sports history. I'll frame it this
way. It's absolutely performative when he's talking about it. But I truly do
believe that he considers anyone who isn't willing to work seventy five as hard as
him as irrelevant, and that he doesnt want to be teammates with them.
So I don't think that part of it is. I do believe he expects
his teammates to live up to his standard, which maniacal as it may be.
I don't think that the standard exists as as performative. I think it's
something real. It's just the way he conveys it that's absolutely performative because he
wants people to know about it. I don't think he's doing it for the
recognition, but because he's doing it, he wants the recognition. If that's
making that makes any sense, it does, it does, And I just
I hate those early wake up things. It's like, if it works for
you, great, but it's not gonna work for everyone, And you might
be holding back some of your teammates if you try to like force them to
follow your ridiculous workout schedule. Yeah, right there, third team fowards are
all you. We were not in lockstep. I don't think right here,
No, we were not one of them. I had was Jason Tatum.
Who you had as a third team guard, so I did have him as
a third teamer as well. For all the reasons you mentioned. The post
All Star break explosion that we saw, it didn't come out of nowhere.
It was building towards that all season. He's been so much more than just
a late season breakout. He was playing at such a high two way level
that I think we're going to hear his name mentioned in the best two way
player discussions moving forward. He's he's just that talented on both ends, which
is not something that I expected to be saying when he was coming out of
Duke with a questionable shot selection, with a questionable work ethic on defense.
But kudos to him for proving any doubts wrong on that. On that pre
draft scouting report, I had him joined by Chris Middleton, who is probably
moving into that Mike Conley territory where he's been called underrated so many times that
it might not be true anymore. But he's just he's a damn good basketball
player. And if you think the Milwaukee Bucks is ceiling is limited by their
second fiddle to Jannis, you're wrong, because Chris Middleton is that good.
I mean, he's unquestionably been a top twenty player this year. Is he
he is on pace to join the fifty forty ninety club. I believe.
I haven't checked since he was nine overall field goal percentage when the restart began.
I don't know if he's clear. He's at one two nine one two
right now. Well here, so he's not quite there. But for all
intents and purposes, he's scoring twenty one point one points per game with fifty
ninety slash and while playing good defense, while creating his own jumpers from scratch
from all over the court, and forcing defenses to pay attention to mid range
zones because he's effective enough there to demand it. Like he is a great
basketball player who it's hard to find a flaw with. Yeah, and so
he was one of my third team forwards. I don't understand. I actually
still think he's underrated because I don't think people recognize that he added top ten
to fifteen value this season among players, and his stardom is plug in play
ninety third percentile on catch and shoot efficiency, eighty seventh percentile off the dribble.
The Bucks were a monstrous net plus. When he played without Jannis,
it was basically the same story last year. I'm with you on his defense.
People probably overlook it because Jannis Bletsoe and even Brook Lopez kind of have
to do more. That's not his fault. He's still in If he's going
to guard the third best player on the court, he still does a heck
of a job doing it. And then, just to reiterate his scoring efficiency
as it stands, the only other player in NBA history to average more than
twenty points while shooting well, let's say matching Middleton's efficiency on twos, threes
and free throws is Stephen Curry. His scoring is just he's not bad.
Stephen Curry's okay, and that's just he should I think Middleton. There probably
points to debate, but I think Middleton should be an All NBA shoe in
this year. Whether you put him second team might be a stretch, but
I would say third team for sure. Yeah, I think he should be
a third team lock my third team other thirteen powers, that's actually Pascal Siakam.
And people have pointed to the drop in efficiency, and so here's how
I countered that he was injured. At one point I think he was dealing
with was a groin injury. I believe it was. The other thing is
his role is so much different that skepticism. It feels like and I wrote
this, skepticist feels like pageantry. His usage rate has jumped by seven point
seven points compared to his five point one spike last year from his season before
that. And the other thing I'll point out is where last year's change was
more about taking on additional responsibility, this year's transition is both a matter of
volume and transformation because he's taking different shots. They're trying to turn him into
into more of this offensive hub, and so I think you have to expect
his efficiency to decline. I mean, listen to this. The frequency with
which he's finished possessions as the pick and roll ball handler has almost tripled from
last year. The time he spends in isolation has almost doubled, and he's
gone from attempting fewer than one pull up jumper per game to five. He's
shooting above thirty four percent on pull up three's, which is an acceptable number
by those standards. I would say Toronto's lucky that he's averaging let's say twenty
four twenty four points, eight rebounds, four assists, I'm rounding up here
on average adjacent true shooting given the context of his role and how different it
is from years past, even last season. And to me, I don't
know if it's because Toronto's defense is so success by committee and he's maybe been
a little bit worse there than last season because of all he's doing on the
offensive end. He's still borderline all defense to me too, and so he
Actually it was tough for me too. I was trying to figure out a
way to finagle Ben Simmons in here, but I couldn't do it at the
expense of Pascal Siakam. I'm not really sure what Pascal Siakam's role is because
he does everything. It seems like it varies from one game to the next
to the betterment of the Raptors. He was the most improved player in the
NBA last year. He's still somehow in the discussion this year. He's probably
not going to win the awarding back to back seasons, but the fact that
he even deserves mentioned in those conversations is telling in and of its stuff.
You know, you mentioned the numbers, you mentioned the specific roles, and
his it's it's tough to tell whether here, Kyle Lowry is more valuable to
the Raptors right now, and and that's another huge point in his favor.
I had him as a fourth team forward and it was it was tough for
me to leave him off the third Would you say, is it is this
a cop out to say Pascal Siakam is Toronto's best player, but Kyle Lowry
is their most important No, I agree with that. I think it was
probably the same story last season, even with Kauai. Maybe I don't.
Maybe he can't say that because of what he did in the finals. But
whereas beforehand it was Kyle Lowry was better than Demartar Rosen and more important than
Demartar Rosen, it feels like this season it's a Pascal Siakam's better in a
vacuum, but Kyle Lowry is still more important to this team's immediacy. Well,
I think part of the reason that they're so successful is that they don't
get caught up in those designations either. There's there's never any hint of selfishness
with this team. Fred van Vliet is going to take a lot of shots.
Siakim's gonna take almost nineteen per game. Lowry is going to take almost
fifteen per game, but it never feels like any of those key scorers,
maybe Norman Powell occasionally is going to take shots that they shouldn't be, that
aren't coming within the flow of the offense. And the ability to play off
one another, the ability to complement one another, no matter what role you're
filling, is so vital. Yeah, I'm totally with you right there on
that one. Who is your other quote unquote fourth team forward? Yeah?
My other fourth team forward was Russell Westbrook. Were you just assigning him the
forward minutes when he played with Gordon and Harden at the same time. Sure,
you know the Rockets very clearly don't subscribe to positional definitions, but their
microball lineups after they traded Clint Capella and even before that to some extent,
So why not let's go ahead and throw him in there as a forward,
because he does deserve recognition for deferring to Harden earlier in the season and then
just absolutely exploding in these microball lineups. If that's not allowed, if you
want to reject that, I'm more than willing to put Brandon Ingram in that
spot for how well he did carrying the Pelicans before Zion was healthy and then
his ability to adapt one Zion was back in demanding touches. But but I'm
gonna stick with Westbrook. I'll allow it. I don't know if anyone else
will. From all zero on Twitter and I had brandon Ingram's one. I
also people are like, let's not overthink brandon Ingram averaging like twenty five points
and five assists on really good true shooting. Like, let's not. That's
good. I don't care what the on a split say right now. He's
obviously going to struggle a little bit to operate with Zion once they put a
floor spacing five around them, which I think they absolutely need to do.
That's partnership. I think will end up being fine. But he was really
good. I had him, and then I shoe horned Ben Simmons into a
forward role. I actually don't know if he was eligible for that. So
I might be doing the same definitely should be. I might be doing the
same Sannaigans that you are, though, but I'm not sorry. Do you
want to speaking of Shenanigans? First team center is kind of a It's tough
because well, it's tough, but it's also like, well, do you
want to say it because we have the same guy. Yeah, I mean,
we have Anthony Davis, but he played more than half of his minutes
at power forward before the restart, and I understand that they've closed games with
him at the five. But it's like, and it makes sense under the
current context, because oh, if you know you're gonna have Yokich be a
forward when he was never really a forward, then yes, Anthony Davis should
be eligible at a position he technically did play for a good amount of time.
But it's just another instance where like the delineation is just a little bit
blurry. It is. I'm happy to have it though, because it made
the rest of this exercise a lot more flexible, right right, it was
it was tough to decide between Anthony Davis and Nikola Yokich for that first team
spot, but one of them showed up in shape and the other didn't,
And I think that's the difference. It is. It is Yokich was not
good at the start of the season and very quickly became good. But but
Davis was phenomenal and didn't skip a beat joining up with Lebron James, which
is an entirely different situation than anything that he had done to that stage of
his career, The ability to fit in seamlessly alongside a player who as good
as he is and as well as he understands the game isn't always the easiest
to play alongside. He did it so well on both ends of the floor.
We're talking about him as a primary threat to win Defensive Player of the
Year, and deservedly so, even if he's neither of our picks, while
also dominating on the offensive end as a three point shooter, as a as
a creator, as a cutter, as a pick and roll threat, you
name it, and he's able to thrive in that role. Yeah, he
can't. He can't carry units without Lebron. That's been a struggle for him
throughout his career to really float a lineup without another star next to him.
But that's okay. Yeah, it's tough for him to have that type of
influence over the offense, but I'm with you, it's okay. And also,
while we didn't pick him for Defensive Player of the Year, I think
people have used his on off splits to kind of discredit that case. Because
the Lakers are allowing fewer points per one hundred sessions without him, there's a
lot of noise there, and he had to try and carry a lot of
lineups that included regular season Rondo in there without Lebron, which makes it tough.
And then also there might be something too. He's not able to impact
the defense at the same level as an embiid or go bear because he's guarding
at every level and they're not, if that makes any sense. He guards
isolations more frequently this season than Ben Simmons. He's fifteenth in total spot ups
defended and fourth in three pointers contested per game. His two point nine deflections
per thirty six minutes ranked seventh among all players six ten or taller to clear
one thousand minutes, and he's defended more than twice as many pick and roll
ball handlers as post ups. Some of that's positional because he has spent a
lot of time at the four, but he's all over the place defensively,
and that sort of ubiquity actually kind of takes away from I would argue what
some of the numbers actually paint him as. So I think he's clearly there,
and it was actually an easy choice for me to put him in first
team if he was eligible at the five. Yeah, it was one of
those that I debated for a second and then I was like, yeah,
it's Davis. But that's not to discredit Yokich, who I believe was your
second team center as well, not forward, the implement forward, even though
he's eligible. I refused to do that. Had he come out of the
gates hot, I think the first team would have been his for the taking
because he reached that level that we expected to following his masterpiece of a playoff
performance last season. Now, he's still averaging twenty point two points, ten
point two rebounds, six point eight assists per game, shooting fifty two point
seven percent from the field. He generates free throws. He doesn't necessarily hit
his threes at a high clip, but high enough and frequently enough the defenses
are forced to cover him out there. He is questions where he shoots like
forty five percent from three two. Yep. He is the unquestioned lynchpin of
the Denver offense. Everyone cuts around him, everyone takes handoffs from him.
He makes full court passes look easy. He's the best quarterback in Denver.
All of these things are undeniable. He remains an underrated defender. He has
been arguably the best crunch time player in the NBA. Chris Paul is probably
the only player who's capable of taking that crown for him. And it goes
beyond that. No player has had more success taking shots within the final four
seconds of the shot clock this season. He is a bailout option who somehow
manages to get off shots from everywhere and they are high and they go through
the net. What he's done for Denver is everything. Yeah, I mean,
I don't I don't know what I could actually add to that. But
from the moment he turned the corner, since December sixth, he has been
averaging twenty two point four points seven point one assist, ten rebounds, slashing
fifty five point six thirty five point seven eighty two point two sixty three five
screw shooting during this stretch. That's forty six games. And like you said,
it's a matter of like you know, those first like between fifteen and
twenty appearances, if you if he was better during though, was the first
team probably would have been his spot to lose where we I don't know that
we talked about before we did we put third team center. I don't know
that we've listed it to each other. But I think I don't remember who
you picked. I have Rudy Gobert as my third Okay, so I think
it's like underrated. Now, yeah, it's It's tough because he kind of
has the same limitations as Davis where what are you? He can't influence the
offense the same way, so he's always going to be inherently less valuable than
certain players. But he's still a generational defender. And look, the Jazz
have been terrible. They're better with him playing without Donovan Mitchell than Donovan Mitchell
playing without him, and so you can read from that what you want.
And he's look on offense, he's a devastating, dedicated rim runner, so
he is relying on others to create his own looks, but like he can.
Really he's going to finish well at the rim when given the opportunity out
of the pick and roll. And just what he does defensively too, there's
he's defended well outside the paint. It was Zach Lowe had this stat opponent's
average and embarrassing point six eight eight points on one hundred and seventeen isolations against
Gobert, the lowest figure in the league. Among all defenders who faced at
least one hundred ISOs. So like, if you pull him out of the
paint, you have won because it is going to open up lanes. But
if your first instinct is, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna cook him off
the dribble now instead of exploding the mismatch elsewhere, He's not gonna go down
without a fight there, And so his defense is actually more valuable, and
I think it gets credit for now. The final thing I'll say is it's
not on him. Really, there was some just I feel like there was
a stretch of like people in Utah pointed out or Utah like jazz writers for
like a month where he just wasn't engaged on defense, wasn't getting back in
transition with the same you know vim. But it's not on him that Utah
is tenth and defensive efficiency, they still take a nose dive without him there
in the seventy seventh percent tile of defensive efficiency when he's jumping center. And
the other thing I'll say that people haven't talked about enough, and this will
be the final thing. I say. They've veered away from defense heavily over
the offseason by letting Ricky Rubio walk even if you thought Mike Conley was going
to be healthy, that was a downgrade right there, And the fact that
Mike Conley wasn't healthy hurt you even more. Trading Jay Crowder who worked as
a small ball four for them, and bringing in boy On Badanovitch who was
fine in Indie because it's Indie, but also just wasn't adding like a huge
value as a defender. So if you're going from him to Jay Crowder in
essence, like that's a drop off as well. I'm definitely not surprised by
that Zach lowstat because anecdotally, I feel like Gobert is maybe the best I've
ever seen at bating dribblers into blowing by him knowing that he can recover to
block the shot. He seems to do it on purpose. There's to like
let guys get a step on him knowing that he's quick enough to recover.
I don't know who else I would even put in that category there, just
like there are some players that you could see he's like more hesitant with,
Like when it happens with Chris Paul. That's one where it seems like he's
really indecisive, but otherwise I'm just in total agreement with you. And the
other thing. They trust him as a rim protector so much that their defensive
game plan and I think it was one or I think it was just one
Houston game, it was two. We're gonna put him at the rim and
let Westbrook just challenge him right there, because that's how confident we are.
It doesn't matter whether it was super effective or not. The fact that they
felt they could do it like is a testament to his rim protection, and
that gives them ways to kind of fight sort of heavily switching, like if
he wants to drop all the way back and let the ball handlers come at
them, they funnel enough ball handlers his way anyway. You could watch many
of them will triple inside just to come back out because they see him there.
And then the final point on Gobert is his screen assists. So who
is your fourth team center triple double have or Rudy Gobert with his green assist,
so the fourth team. I also don't know if we went over this
with each other either. It's weird that wet over every Apparently we just got
bored. Yeah, this was a little bit tougher for me. I considered
brook Lopez here. I even looked at Karl Anthony Town's a little bit,
but he just didn't play enough. I ended up with Joel Embiid, and
he probably would have beaten out Gobet for me had he just played more.
I know there was like his defensive consistency was maddening, but he's still if
you just look at the thing that still just blows my mind is when you
look at the rim frequency differential of opponents with him on the floor versus off,
it drops by eight point two percent. That's the largest drop off among
every single player in the league. Made him I'm three hundred fifty minutes,
which is nothing I filtered out. I think it was someone I can't remember
who it was. It was like James Johnson or somebody had logged like no
time at all and was number one. I'll look up who that one person
was. But that is absurd. Eight point two percent. That's wild.
Zach Lows says this all the time, so I don't want to. I
know people think everyone just repurposes his takes as their own, and maybe that's
there's level of truth for that. Good for him, it's valid, but
he might be the most impactful defender in the league when he's healthy and available.
The fact is his availability is never gonna Supersede and Anthony Davis or or
a Rudy Gobert. So my pick I haven't written in my notes is sorry
Joe L. Embiad, but availability matters Bam Autobio, I'm I'm by the
way, I was right about it being James Johnson. I just want to
throw it out there that I was glad I remember that name. I feel
like they've become lower on Bam than everybody else, which probably means that I'm
wrong. I'll just flat out say I mean, yeah, it's it's probably
true, but yeah, Bam was seventh and minutes played in the entire NBA
this season. Embiid was scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, one hundred
and sixtieth one thousand, three hundred and sixty three minutes played to BAM's two
thousand, two hundred and sixty three, which is a huge difference. Embid
was better in the minutes that he did play, but BAM's growth as a
do everything center was huge for Miami. He's probably not going to anchor a
defense by himself. He's probably not an anchor an offense by himself, but
is his ability to try to fill every exactly. His ability to fill every
functional element in the offense and in the defense is huge. He grew as
a ball handler and distributor, he grew as a shooter, he grew as
a perimeter defender who has incredible lateral quickness for someone his size. And it
really not quite as much as Butler, but it did key their expedited rise
up the Eastern standings. The only other player I really consider for this spot
was Demontes Sabonis, who, while he had a fantastic season, did not
belong in this conversation. No, and that's why I'm making a face at
you right now. But and just some people don't think I'm a Bam hater.
The point you made about him really just filling a box score from every
angle. Only six other players have averaged at least fifteen points, ten rebounds,
five assists once the on one block as Bam is doing now, Kareem
Jannis, Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, Kevin Garnett, and Chris Webber.
I mean wholly surprised that there are Hakim or David Robinson seasons the Assists.
I'm not maybe with a kid, not so much Robinson, but the Assists
seem a little bit high of a benchmark for them. But so to your
point about embid, which I think is fair, I try in all NBA,
I don't really wait playing time as heavily, which is why I almost
put Karl Anthony Towns in this. I did not, just to be clear,
but it absolutely does matter. It's just not as much of a focus
for me. I've always kind of viewed it. I can't remember who said
this. I think it was like Kevin Arnovis once a couple of years ago,
and it stuck with me. Is that I'm more concerned about getting the
fifteen best players in under the criteria that I have to fit them into than
I am about sample size. Obviously, it needs to matter, which is
why I didn't pick Karl Anthony Towns. But that's the way I approached this,
and I'm look, bam, I having a BAIO is ridiculously good.
I do approach it from the perspective of who added the most value during the
season in question, and because of that, volume does matter pretty significantly for
me. I have no qualms about that. Do you have anything else to
offer on this discussion other than that it was it was fun to do,
not really, if let's recap him quick. So my first team was Lebron
Harden, Jannis Kawai, Anthony Davis. Mine was Lebron Harden, Jannis don
Chich, Anthony Davis. My second team was Chris Paul, Damian Lillard,
Luka don Chich, Jimmy Butler, and Nicola Yokich. Mine was Damian Lillard,
Chris Paul, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, and Nikolai Yokich. My
third team was Kyle Lowry, Jason Tatum, Chris Middleton, Pascal Siakam,
Rudy Gobert. Mine was Kyle Lowry, Ben Simmons, Chris Middleton, Jason
Tatum, and Rudy Gobert. The fourth team that does not exist, I
had Russell Westbrook, Devin Booker, Brandon Ingram, Ben Simmons, and Joel
Embiid. I had Bradley Beale, Trey Young with an apology to Devin Booker,
Pascal Siakam, Russell Westbrook was an apology to Brandon Ingram, and Bam
Autobio with an apology to Joel Embiid with also an apolo on the Russell Westbrook.
It's also apology of people who care about positional housing names. No,
there is no apology to them. That's regret those words in my mouth.
Hopefully you all enjoyed this podcast. This was fun to do. We will
be getting back to our decade player ranking series. We'll probably only have like
an episode a week on that though, since there's actually current events to be
moving forward with. We've already recorded the Knicks. Disregard when Adam does the
intro there and says it's his first intro ever back, because clearly it's not
anymore. Please please, please, pretty please with Sugar on top rate review
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Adam at FROMO zero nine. I'm at Damp Valley IV. Al until next
time, though, we leave you with the shout out to the one,
the only, one of the most underrated small forwards of the season, Russell
Westbrook, for the one standing guard, for the eagle eyed, for the
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