WEBVTT

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We came up with the idea that
Okay, like if they want to invest,

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why they're not investing with their own
currency, which is pay USD And

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we felt like, okay, we
can use Mesh api to transfer assets from

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PayPal to like Mesh account and we
did that. So that was that was

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a big deal because it was first
time that a big public company investing in

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a stable coin in a startups.
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Please visit vchain dot org. Link
will be in a description. Welcome

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to the Thinking Crypto podcast. You're
home for cryptocurrency news and interviews. With

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me today is Bamazezi, who's the
CEO and co founder at Mesh. Bam

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great to have you on. Yeah, thank you for having me. Great

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to me. Yeah, likewise and
Bam, I'm excited to speak with you.

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Excited to learn about Mesh. We'd
love to start with your background,

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you know, tell us about yourself, where you're from, and what's your

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professional back. Yeah. Sure,
I'm originally Persian get like many other immigrants,

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came to this country for higher education. So I was a PhD student

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like back then when I started my
kind of life in the US and uh

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uh, and then I started my
first company, sold it, and then

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I enjoyed what they what I've done, I'm continue doing that. I'm I

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call myself serial entrepreneur. But I've
heard that that means a series of failure,

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but it's a back up honor.
Yeah, I mean that's awesome.

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And you know the fact that you
built a company and then sold it.

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I think it's called no password,
is that right, that's correct? And

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you know what was I guess your
first encounter with bitcoin and crypto and what

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was your amlement? Was that,
like after no Password? You know,

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where was that in the timeline?
Sure? Uh yes, I mean like

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it was definitely, uh exactly around
the same time that I started No Password.

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Uh. I like, because of
my background and coming coming from a

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country that was famous for like general
trading historically, you're like part of the

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like old like Emperor basically the trading
platform or like we had this stock exchange

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back then, uh in in in
Iran or Persia as as an as a

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country or continent back then. And
and I like, and my dad was

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a businessman, so I was like
always eager to learn more about the business

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aspect of things, but I was
like more into coding and being an engineer

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and then building stuff. Uh So
the combination of those two kind of help

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me to be who I am today. Definitely, When like when you're coming

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from that background, when you're hearing
something new about like generally speaking about money,

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which was bitcoin back then, like
a peer two peer payment in a

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decentralized way, it was quite interesting. So I remember doing some research online

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to understand what bitcoin is. Back
then, we just had one cryptocurrency,

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which was bitcoin, and then like
I opened the first link, it was

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like, okay, this website is
seized by the government, And I opened

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the second website. It was about
dealing drugs and doing some illicit activity,

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and I was on a visa in
the US, so I didn't want to

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do anything with it. So I
went through that phase of exploration and maybe

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like being a little bit pessimist about
the future. But the more I studied

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about that, I learned. I
learned a lot. But I can maybe

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click a double click on the no
password piece and I can connect the dots

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for you and your audience at no
password without like knowing anything about what I'm

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going to do. Ten years after
that, we did a lot of things

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around PKI or public che infrastructure.
As you may know, the entire crypto

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is based on blockchain, which is
a PKI type technology that basically when I

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learned more about crypto and I learned
about the relationship between crypto and PKI,

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because of my background, my expertise
and security, it was really not that

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hard to kind of figure out what
we want to do next. But there

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are other interesting stuff that happened no
password that is correlated to what we're doing

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at MESH. No password mission was
very simple. We wanted to bring secure

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authentication or we call it friction list
biometric authentication without like compromising the security.

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So if you dig a little bit
deeper, what we were solving was back

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then that like all the security company
was, like security tech was a hot

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tech like AI now today in Silicon
Valley ten years ago, so everybody was

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talking about additional factor of authentication.
They wanted to add basically your inter password,

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you enter your text message or OTP
or TOTP, and on top of

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that you prove like you own some
sort of a device. They call it

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what you know, what you have, what you are, which is the

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biometric aspect of it. And I
felt like this is a little bit too

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much of friction for an end users
from experience perspective. So without like no

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password, like a password less authentication
could solve that without like compromising the security.

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Now, if you look at Krypto
today, you're kind of solving the

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same problem. Everybody is talking about
the upside of crypto, but little we're

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hearing about how we can make it
so user friendly that is no brainer for

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everyday people to use it. You
still need to be one of like either

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a tech pro or crypto pro to
be able to kind of own piece of

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crypto and if you want to transfer
it, if you want to pay for

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things, you want to use it
on a daily basis gopless, there is

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no easy way to do that as
of today. So we are like tackling

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that experience problem in an industry that
has a lot of upside, but nobody

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has figured out how we can make
the experience as simple as possible for everyday

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people. So from that perspective,
you're kind of doing continuing doing the same

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thing that we were doing No Password, and I can I can give you

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a little bit more background No Password
we had like more than two thousand integrations.

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We're doing kind of the same thing
mesh. We're building integrations exchanges and

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wallets. UH and and No Password
got acquired by a big company, a

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public company back then called log me
in UH they acquired themselves by private equity

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firm. Now it's a private private
company. They are the owner of Last

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Pass and I think Last Past that's
been off recently too. And we were

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part of the Last Pass and I
am UH division and UH. Then then

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I got out and we started mesh
uh and and the rest is history.

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Wow, pretty incredible. I've used
both platforms last pass and of course locked

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me in. I'm sure a lot
of people have. So pretty incredible that

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you know the technology you built,
uh, you know as part of that

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holy ecosystem and so forth. So
Mesh, you know, it's enabling easier

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crypto deposits, payments on ramping and
so forth. Tell us a bit more

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about that. And the connections is
it with exchanges, wallets and so forth?

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Tell us about the logistics. Yeah, so I wish that you were

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like so smart that that was like
our idea day one. But as you

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know, we're like almost a five
years old company, so initially we're not

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this company that you are seeing now. Even the name of the company was

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not Mesh. So we initially it
started as a B two C application.

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And you can compare us to Eli
and that they did the same thing.

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They were a B two C app
and then they pivoted to a B two

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B application. So the B two
C app that we had was like modern

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version of Mint. You could connect
your robinhood, your coinbase, and manage

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everything in one place. And and
we wanted to do better than what plaid

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Or was offering back then in terms
of like not just reading information end of

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the day, especially when you're talking
about crypto and equities, you want to

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get the pricing and the holding like
in every second, right, especially when

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there is a big change in price
upward or downward. People like checking their

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portfolio constantly, you can just tell
them like come back end of the day.

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So we wanted to make that a
more immersive real time experience that you

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could read information in real time,
and not only that, you could be

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able to trade and also transfer access
from one place or another, rebalance your

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portfolio, things in that nature.
So you felt like, okay, if

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you want to do that, you
have to build your own integrations. There

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is no product out there off the
shelf that provides those functionalities. So we

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started doing that and then and then
like our usage can skyrocketed, but it

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was all free users. You couldn't
monitize it. And twenty twenty two happened

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and then like it was not easy
anymore to raise money on just based on

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growth metrics, so we had to
make money and be post revenue company to

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raise our Series A. So we
decided to launch this B two B vision

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that like, Okay, this API
is amazing. This is the brain of

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what we have built. And this
is more in line to our background,

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which is identity security integrations with different
exchanges. Maybe there are some other companies

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that they want to use that,
so let's open that to the world.

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And we launched it on product hunt, ranked top three that day and landed

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our first five customers same day,
and we felt like, Okay, this

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is this is that's that's what we
need to do. So it was like

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some sort of an organic evolvement.
But I think our background and ten years

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of like building what we are building
no pass Wild help us to kind of

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get that conviction faster. Today we
have more than hundreds of platforms using mesh

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Connect API to deliver a better service, better user experience to the end users.

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And also you're like working with exchanges
and wallets and Vibtory platforms to offer

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this service to the end users.
I can talk about some of the market

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customers that we have. Probably you
have seen our announcement. We had COINDYCX,

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the largest Indian exchange, rolled out
MASHED to sixteen million users. Recently,

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Metamasks rolled us out to thirty million
active multi active users that they have,

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and then we're like talking with other
big names as well at the same

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time. So you're just at the
beginning of you're a series a stage startup

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and we have a lot of great
announcement coming up. That's awesome. So

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for the folks listening and who maybe
are a bit new to crypto, is

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this technology you running behind the scenes
that they don't even know it's there?

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Right, Like the integration with matamas
and so forth. Is that the gist

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of the platform that's running behind the
scenes and make things more seamless. That's

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correct. So we are a B
to B service, so we work with

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platforms that they are working with end
users and customers. So the more integrations

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we have, the more customers we
have, the more coverage we will have

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for the end users. So but
even though your B to B it's not

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all behind the scene like plat like, you have to connect your accounts through

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us, So there are some user
expence experience exponent as well that basically help

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users to connect their accounts and move
assets faster and easier and better. Right

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now, if you want to let's
say you want to pay like everybody's like

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adopting crypto. Now you want to
pay for your coffee with your assets in

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your coin base account. Even if
like let's say Starbucks or any other coffee

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shop accept scrypto, there is no
way, no easy way for you to

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pay for that. So the way
it works is you have to scan it

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your code copy of wall address if
it's there him like a good luck you

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have, like there are hundreds of
L two's that you need to pick one,

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and if you just miss one bit
of it, then you lost your

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fund. And then on top of
that, you have like if you're doing

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everything manually, there would be more
rigorous checks by exchanges in terms of like

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making sure you're sending money to the
right people to the right person. We

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can streamline the entire process with one
click. So if you think about it

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from end user's perspective, we're just
enabling new use cases that was not possible

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to do previously. Yeah, for
sure, and I saw that obviously.

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We talked about menimass and some many
other wallets. You're working with both exchanges

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as well as self custody wallets,
right, So that's great. So you're

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tackling both sides of the out in
regards to the exchanges. Does that include

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both decentralized exchanges and centralized exchanges.
Yes, So we really don't judge where

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like users own their assets. We
want like if you look at the crypto

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industry and compare it to the banking
industry. So initially banks they were like

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the best place you could store your
assets. You could like it was a

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safe place that it could store your
money, but if you wanted to go

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from one state to another, you
had to carry your own money. And

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then banks started like building branches so
you could go to another branch and ask

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for money, and then they would
check your account and give you money.

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And then banks started talking to each
other and so you could do like ah

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wire and payments and things like that
in the last like thirty forty years of

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history. But this kind of happens
at the same time history repits itself in

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the crypto industry. So in the
last fifteen years that crypto was around,

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we were like the whole industry was
focused on building the best in class custudio

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services that you can hold your assets
either in a centralized exchange or on a

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decentralized self custody wallet like companies like
Leisure, Metamasks and so forth, and

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without like feeling like your assets are
at risk. Now it's time to connect

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all these lethal islands, and MESH
connect would be that connectivity layer that connects

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all of these isolated islands so we
can freely move assets from one place to

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another. So that's kind of what
Mesh brings to the table. And if

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you think about it from that perspective, we want inclusivity as much as possible,

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right, so we want to work
with different type of assets, different

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type of tokens, different type of
chains, different type of exchanges and wallets.

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You really don't care about like what
you do as a customer or as

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a partner. If you have end
users and you help people to hold some

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sort of a valuable asset, you
will like to be able to talk to

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you and partner with you and work
with you for sure. Now you mentioned

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you know it doesn't matter the assets. So I'm assuming you support the majority

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of the crypto assets out there,
including maybe the top thirty fifty or whatever

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the exchanges may support, or these
wallets. Yeah, so you know that

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there is eighty twenty rules in this
case. It's just like if you have

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forty tokens and fifteen network that we
have. You basically cover ninety nine percent

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of the volume. But we're now
going to stay there. We're going to

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add more based on the request,
but we have the majority of like top

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wanted chains and networks. Now you
got an investment from PayPal, I believe

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five million of the p y us
the stable coin. Tell us about that

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fundraising and how it came about with
PayPal. Yeah, so that's very interesting.

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Of course PayPal is very vulish on
Krypto. There is definitely a big

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sentiment and validation for us as a
series a stage startup. A public company

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with the amount of power and connection
comes forward and wants to invest and they

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really like the idea of what we
are doing because we have a product called

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mesh Pei that could potentially enable like
we're not a payment company, but we

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can enable payment companies like PayPal to
offer a better service on the payment side.

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And they have launched pay USD or
p y u s D last year

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as well, so they are like
super polish on stable coins and payment use

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case. So we wanted to kind
of leverage that in our platform, and

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then we came up with the idea
that Okay, like if they want to

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invest, why they're not investing with
their own currency, which is pay USD

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And we felt like, okay,
we can use Mesh api to transfer assets

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from PayPal UH to like Mesh account
and we did that. So that was

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that was a big deal because it
was first time that a big public company

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investing in a state a coin st
startups. It broke the news, it

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brought and brought a lot of attention
for us and eyeballs. That was good.

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But on top of that, we
proved that both technologies and products are

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working. UH you can use that
for different type of use cases, and

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I think that was that was the
kind of light bulb moment for many of

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our customers and partners as well.
Yeah, for sure. Now you mentioned

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like there was an exchange in India
that you guys are working with, so

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I'm assuming your technology is available globally. Essentially any exchange in any part of

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the world can essentially use use your
solution. Yes, I think one of

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the things that I mentioned all the
time is even if you wanted to do

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this like ten years ago, even
five years ago, we couldn't do that

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because crypto maybe it was not mature
enough. We didn't have enough coverage across

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the globe, and API as we
have it today was not sure enough.

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Back then people still like doing screen
of scraping and things in that nature to

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offer functionalities. So I strongly believe
that this two global phenomenon API, which

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is a global language. No matter
where you are in the world, you're

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using the same breast API as the
rest of the world and the same as

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crypto. Right, so no matter
where you are, you can own a

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piece of bitcoin or any other cryptocurrencies, and no matter what dual location you're

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in. And then stable coins and
government based the stable coins or cryptocurrencies definitely

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helping that pushing that initiative as well. So this exposure or I would call

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it coverage that we have on both
industry API and crypto helped us to offer

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this in a global manner. And
it was not like us going after well

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what companies. They came to us
and said, like, that's cool,

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we can use that as well for
this specific use case. As a matter

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of fact, we had no idea
that people can use us for payments,

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and there was a random company in
Latin America that they used us like you

253
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could pay for things. Using mesh, you connect your coin base or binance

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and pay for things and you feel
like, Okay, that's that's a very

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very interesting idea. We want to
build a product vertically for payment as well.

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So and companies across the globe came
for many different use cases and we

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felt like we can add value no
matter where the user are or what use

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cases they're going after. Yeah,
that's amazing. And you know, to

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your point of like in different markets, in different countries, people are using

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PP down different ways. You know, maybe in the United States it's more

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so the investment vehicle, but maybe
in other country is in South America or

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across the content in Africa, Uh, they needed for payments to bypass the

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old, outdated legacy payments rails right
that are out there and even their their

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few currencies and the daughter right.
So it's fascinating and it's great that you

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guys are presenting that solution to help. Yes, yeah, definitely we're seeing

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more global adoption. Uh. And
I think US dollar as a stable currency

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is something that probably people are taking
it for granted. The rest of the

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world is really not that stable.
Because of that, people are more interested

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in getting like stable coins because they
can use it as as as a saving

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account. A lot of these emerging
crypto markets, people are using like their

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minus account as a bank account,
or the openings account or the coin basico

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as a bank account to hold the
stable coins because it's a hyperinflation market and

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they don't want to hold like local
currencies. And as a result of that,

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we have like central bank based cryptocurrencies
or CBDCs that basically offering the same

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services across the globe. And like
recently I've heard like there is a there

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is a digital pound coming up or
digital euro coming out coming out soon,

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and I would not be shocked that
the US fat also issues government back cryptocurrency

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or a stable coin as well.
Yeah, it seems all these governments are

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working on their CBDC and you know, obviously there's a lot of concerns around

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that because of privacy and what they
can do with it. So hopefully they

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do it right and at least here
in the United States, they you know,

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align it to the US Constitution.
Question about you know, stable coins

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and how the US dollar being the
world reserve currency, people want that US

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backed stable coin or the US denominated
the stable cooin with your partnership with PayPal

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and the investment. Are you facilitating
the usage of p y u s D.

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You know, obviously PayPal launched that
last year and they're trying to get

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market penetration and grow. So are
you are you facilitating payments in p y

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u s D. Yes, you're
working closely with the PayPal team, and

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there are many different use cases that
we can leverage mention piousd to offer that.

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But you're acid class agnostic. Uh, we want we're working with other

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stable coins as well, because if
you're thinking globally, like Pius is not

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available across the globe as of today, of course because of our close relationship,

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whatever they are available, that would
be our like top choice. So

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you know, obviously you guys got
a lot going on. I'm sure you're

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wrapping up globally with different exchanges,
different wallets. But what else is on

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your twenty twenty four roadmap? You
know, what can we expect later this

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year? Yeah? So on the
roadmap we have like you're going to be

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more focused on global expansion. We
want to work with all the local exchanges,

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like an emerging market like Korea,
Turkey, Middle East, Africa to

300
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be able to offer the services to
a mass number of users. We just

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launched our product called Mesh Ramp basically
no KYC ramp. They can like basically

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you're bringing your own exchanges and your
accounts and we just use our API leverage

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that to on ramp for like self
custody walllets. So if you are a

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user of Meta mask in Korea and
you have already your uppit account and you've

305
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:07.200
done the KYC, you don't have
to pay three percent credit card fees or

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five percent on ramp fees and you
can basically on ramp it in a cheaper

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way using Mesh solution. So our
focus is being able to build partnerships so

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we can offer that across the globe, not just being focused in the US.

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And our platform helps our customers to
be more compliant, more secure and

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follow the regulations depending on where they
are. We can definitely help them to

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understand their customers and their customers need
better and it helps them hopefully to kind

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of detect many listed activities that they
cannot do that now based on the manual

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transfers and deposits, so we can
add a lot of value there. So

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we're focused on three product core products
that we have today Mesh Ramp, Deposit

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and Mesh pay, and launching a
product is one thing, like evolving it

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to like finding is true places that
different things. Of course we're going to

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build many different products this year,
but these are like top three focuses for

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us. Sure, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I forgot to

319
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ask you earlier. But tell us
about the security, like how are you

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what the approach are you taking to
security, because I'm sure that's going to

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be a question that comes up to
folks, right, and that is often

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a question within crypto because we've seen
different hacks, exploits and all these things.

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But what are the steps and guardrails
that mash has in place. Yeah,

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So because of our security background,
from day one, we wanted to

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make sure that we are offering a
zero trust platform for our customers. I

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want our customers to trust this,
but that's not the best way to build

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a business because you want to show
them even without without like even with a

328
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zero trust level, they can basically
use the service without risking anything. So

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that's the whole meaning of zero trust
like term, and we wanted to offer

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that from day one. So to
do that, that's very simple. You

331
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don't have to store anything, and
you have to act as a pass through

332
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authentication and instruction layer, so you
don't hold any assets, you don't sit

333
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in the floor of the fund,
you don't custody any assets even for one

334
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:37.200
milli seconds, you don't save any
user and impass where access tokens or two

335
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FA methods, And we did that
in no password, and the name is

336
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.599
the name is obvious, and we're
doing the same thing and that Mash as

337
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:55.400
well from day one, So when
a customer is using Mesh, they can

338
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basically control everything that will be shared
with us and they can rest the shore

339
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:06.720
that we don't store anything after the
usage as as like, it doesn't change

340
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.920
anything from user experience perspective, but
it has a lot of security and a

341
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:18.000
scalability upside that we wanted to leverage
from day one. Even though in the

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industry that we are in, like
companies like planuly MX, they're storing a

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00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:29.599
lot of information, which is nothing
wrong with it, but there are like

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multipillion dollar companies and they have a
lot of resources that they can deploy that

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necessarily we don't have. So we
chose a more conservative way of doing business.

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But I'm sure at some point it
will pay off for our customers and

347
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ourselves. Yeah. Absolutely, So
let's talk about the market, crypto market

348
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:52.440
at large. I would love to
get your perspective on how the market has

349
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:55.519
been doing. You know, given
that we get the big cooins body t

350
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.599
apps approved and crypto seems to be
going mainstream right and we had a run

351
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up from twenty twenty three until now
a little bit of a cool down.

352
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:07.400
What are your thoughts on the performance
and what you expect later this year.

353
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:15.000
Yeah, I think we're in the
beginning of a massive bull run in crypto.

354
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I think institutions being able to buy
spot Bitcoin's that's massive years and what

355
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.799
we're seeing is just tip of the
iceberg. So we are like in a

356
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positive way, I think we can
do a lot with that. So now

357
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:36.960
like every pension fund, every family
office, they want to own piece of

358
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:41.160
crypto. And as we know,
like top cryptos like Bitcoin, Ethereum and

359
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:49.880
Solana, they are very like they
have a limited limited supply by the huge

360
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:56.359
demand. So like that is something
that basically helps a lot of crypto companies

361
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in this ecosystem to grow and row
fast and they become the next big things,

362
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:05.680
like the next you're going to see
the next Venmo, the next PayPal,

363
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.759
the next Stripe coming out of this
boiler on companies that they were like

364
00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:15.680
head down building during the winter,
like Mesh could be one of them,

365
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:24.359
uh that or like basically those companies
are in the heart of the next generation

366
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:30.839
of cool technology that will be built
or expanded during this wor run. The

367
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:36.720
other thing that we're seeing a lot
is like on top of like we're seeing

368
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:42.519
like money or the center of crypto
or the MECA crypto is going from Silicon

369
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:47.480
Valley to to Singapore to New York
to Dubai. We're like all these big

370
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:55.880
hitch funds and family offices and and
and financial institutions are there. So that's

371
00:32:55.960 --> 00:33:04.039
a that's a huge sentiment for for
crypt as a technology. And the other

372
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:09.119
thing that we're seeing and monitoring the
market is a massive shift from centralized exchanges

373
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to self custody. So the term
that is if it's not your key,

374
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:19.599
it's not your money or your asset. That's something that we're going to see

375
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more more development around it, both
on the regulation side and also on the

376
00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:32.279
technology side. You can see more
companies are offering NPC like companies like Fireblocks,

377
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:37.039
Leisure, Metal Mask, Institutional and
many others. And then on the

378
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:42.400
regulation side, I think we will
have for the first time you can be

379
00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:45.880
like you can leave in a quantum
state. You can be a custodian but

380
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:52.640
not a custodian, which was not
possible in the traditional term. So if

381
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.559
you were a bank or you were
not a bank now but we have like

382
00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:00.960
companies like Leiser, Fireblocks that they're
just purely ticlogy company. Even though they're

383
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:06.359
offering the technology, it doesn't mean
they own assets because of the self custody

384
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:12.000
term or the MPC technology, And
I think you can offer a lot of

385
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:19.000
centralized services without being a centralized authority
or custodian of the money. So that's

386
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:22.920
that's another thing that we're seeing in
the market, and we continue to see

387
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that in the next five to ten
years. And then last, but not

388
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:37.360
least, is what we are noticing
is the number, the volume and the

389
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:44.800
market cap movement and shake up.
What do I mean by that? So

390
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:52.440
if you go back five years,
like in twenty eighteen nineteen, stable coins

391
00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:58.599
were like ten to fifteen percent of
the volume of the market in terms of

392
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:05.039
the number of transactions. That number
is now like close to ninety percent after

393
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:09.559
transactions happened on the chain or stable
coins. Now, the market cap of

394
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:14.440
stephal coins are around like ten to
fifteen percent now, and we know,

395
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:21.719
like there's always a lag between market
cap and the volume and the market cap,

396
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:24.119
right, so we know marketcap will
follow the volume at some point.

397
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:29.800
So what we're going to see in
the next five to ten years is the

398
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:35.960
crypto value that's coming from stable coins, not from Bitcoin or ethereum. And

399
00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:44.519
nothing nothing bad about those cryptocurrencies,
but that's like, that's the fact that

400
00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:47.440
based on what we're seeing in the
market. Yeah, that makes sense,

401
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:51.920
And there's certainly been you know,
we kind of touched a bit on it

402
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:58.360
earlier, growing demand for stable coins
around the globe, and I've spoken to

403
00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:01.199
you know, folks at tether tether
See and folks at Circle, and it

404
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:07.039
seems like the killer application at least
in so far, has been the stable

405
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:12.480
coins, right. Not not to
say there aren't other real world use cases

406
00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:19.880
and applications for different cryptocurrencies, but
staple coins are big and shows that people

407
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:23.679
really need them, especially around the
globe. What are your thoughts, well,

408
00:36:23.719 --> 00:36:27.559
sorry, what are your thoughts on
tokenization? You know, there's a

409
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.360
lot of talks about this, a
lot of different block beings working with different

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institutions. Black rock is tokenizing an
etherorem. Larry Fink, CEO of Blackrockets,

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said, this is the future of
finance. What are your thoughts on

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00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:44.960
that? One hundred percent agree with
Larry on that. I think every single

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asset on the planet will be total. That's going to take some time,

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but that's going to be the future. And here's the reason, because we

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00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:02.199
realized. It took us like fifty
in years to realize that blockchain is the

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00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:07.239
new cloud. Right, So when
like twenty years ago, if people were

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00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.480
talking about cloud, everybody was like
laughing, like, like, I have

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00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:15.400
to own my own server, I
have to have my own identity, I

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00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:22.519
have to have my own like basically
audit trails and checking balances and policies to

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make sure that nobody hacks me.
Like what do you mean like I can

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00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:29.400
just host everything, all of my
data, I should go to somewhere that

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00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:34.239
they don't have access to. And
you went from that to now everything is

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kind of run on clouds and people
don't have any more cost efficient way to

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00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:47.039
manage that the same thing will happen
with blockchain, so it's a global ledger.

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It has some downside, of course, but we're getting better and better

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every day. But the upside is
you don't have to make it interoperable.

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00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:02.800
It is interoperable by nature. Anybody
can have access to that. You can

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00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:07.960
build your own logic on top of
that. You can build your own layer

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00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:13.199
on top of that, if you
want to. And everything is democratized,

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00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:16.840
and all the developers know about blockchain, you don't, they don't. There

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00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:22.079
is no learning curve if you're building
technology, So you can hire ten developers

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00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:24.119
and from day one they know what
they're doing. They don't need to figure

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00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:30.599
out what's your existing systems to be
able to build a ledger system or interoperability

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00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:37.760
for you. So that's why if
you're thinking about holding an assets or transferring

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00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:45.039
assets, both of these two are
already democratized by blockchain. Why should you

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00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:52.280
build your own ledger system anymore?
Why should you build your own accounting system

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00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:58.239
anymore? Why? Like, like
you can get that for free, Like

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00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:00.840
there is no reason to build that. You can safeguard it, you can

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00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.559
make it more secure, it can
make it less accessible if you want to.

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00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:09.840
And as a result of that,
from economic perspective, it doesn't make

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00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:19.280
sense to not tokenize an asset.
Like you can sell a fraction of wine

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00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:22.440
now if it's tokenized, you cannot
do that with a physical asset if it's

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00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:27.800
not. So what we have seen
on NFT was just a proof of concept,

444
00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:30.039
and I know there are a lot
of bad players there. There were

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00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:36.719
a lot of bad type of hypes, but that happens in almost every single

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00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:42.400
industry. Doesn't mean the tool itself
it's a bad tool. And what NFT

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00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:46.599
has proven that this could be the
future of asset management, and that's why

448
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:52.800
I believe and I agree with Larry
on that part. Yeah for sure too.

449
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:58.800
You know. With that said,
and as tokenization becomes more prominent throughout

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00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:02.039
the globe, and whether it be
real estate, bonds, stocks, whatever

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00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:05.960
it is, is tokenized on a
blockchain. And let's say some of these

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00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:13.559
crypto exchanges can hold those said assets, right because it's fractionalized, they can

453
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:15.679
offer some of it, people can
invest in it and hold the tokens,

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00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:21.920
and it's minted on the rails the
blockchains that you already support and are already

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00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:27.719
part of these ecosystems like Etheroreum or
any of the layer twos on etherorem or

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00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:35.760
avalanche or whatever it is is mesh
preparing for that. You can handle those

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00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:40.360
transactions as well. One hundred percent. We are by nature, You're acid

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00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:45.519
class agnostic by nature, your chain
agnostic, broker's agnostic, chronos agnostic,

459
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:52.599
API is API, and no matter
what type, Like if we were a

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00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:58.239
custodian, that would have been different. But because we're just simply an instruction

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00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:02.239
layer, a connection layer that connect
things to each other, we have a

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00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:07.920
lot of flexibility. And no matter
what asset class you want to work with

463
00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:13.280
or transfer from place A to place
B, we can deliver that to you

464
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:19.960
as long as the source and the
destination can support that type of assets for

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00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:22.960
sure. All right, Beam,
I got some wrap up questions there for

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00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.280
you. First, if you could
create your own metaverse, what would the

467
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:34.440
theme be? Where would you go
to when you put on your apple heads

468
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:40.519
that are oculus space? I think
to space for sure. And I got

469
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:46.280
some rapid fire questions. First's favorite
food? Jesse ask me to say Italians.

470
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:52.079
I say, I love Italian food. I love pizza, but yeah,

471
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:57.760
I'm a vegetarian. Like every time
I go out I find Italians or

472
00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:07.760
the more like vegetarian friendly option for
US favorite musician or band while Republic m

473
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:14.360
HM. Favorite movie A Beautiful Mind
John Nash. Oh yeah, that's a

474
00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:22.440
good one. Favorite book Flash Boys
by Michael Lewis. I also love Guy

475
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:29.159
Kawasaki and his new book I think
remarkable for founders and entrepreneurs. I gotta

476
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:30.960
check that one out. And finally, when you're not working at MASH,

477
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:37.519
what are you doing for fun?
Uh? I always work. Yes,

478
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:42.719
sometimes I play poker, so I
love poker as well. Awesome, Bam.

479
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:45.800
I love what you guys are doing
in MASH, and I would love

480
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.400
to have you on as things progress. But thank you so much for joining

481
00:42:49.440 --> 00:43:00.400
me today. Thank you for having
me. I appreciate it. The Talk

482
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:04.199
posts, the Talk past,