1
00:00:15,759 --> 00:00:20,199
Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast
where we watch blockbuster movies and psychoanalyze them.

2
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,399
My name is Brittany Brownfield and I'm
a child therapist and I'm joined by

3
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,839
Ben Stover, individual therapist, Hannah
Espinoza, marriage and family therapists. We're

4
00:00:27,879 --> 00:00:32,079
all licensed clinical professional counselors also known
as therapists who practice out of Chicago.

5
00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:36,520
Even though we are licensed mental health
professionals, this podcast is purely for entertainment

6
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,640
purposes and to fulfill our love of
dissecting pop culture and all forms. Please

7
00:00:40,679 --> 00:00:44,280
remember that, even though we are
all licensed therapists, we aren't your therapist.

8
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,520
If you are struggling with mental health
symptoms, please find a local mental

9
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,399
health provider. Welcome to today's episode
of Popcorn Psychology. Today we are going

10
00:00:52,439 --> 00:00:58,479
to be covering the nineteen ninety seven
Studio Ghabli classic Princess Mononoke, which was

11
00:00:59,159 --> 00:01:03,840
the top selling film in Japan for
a great many years until it was replaced

12
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,040
by Spirited Away. But what we
will acknowledge is that this is one of

13
00:01:07,079 --> 00:01:12,680
the most beloved anime films ever and
as we're going to dive into this film

14
00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:17,280
today, we're going to start off
by acknowledging that this is a really complex

15
00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:22,920
film and very different than a lot
of the other movies done by Studio Ghibli.

16
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,959
This one's pretty rough. It's PG. Thirteen. It has pretty significant

17
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:34,840
violence, pretty significant complicated adult and
young adult over and undertones about society and

18
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:44,239
death and nature and capitalism. It's
a very hefty movie. And something that

19
00:01:44,719 --> 00:01:47,879
I was just explaining to Hannah Brittany
that I don't know if our audience knows.

20
00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,959
I'm sure many of you do,
probably better than us, is that

21
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:56,280
a lot of their films or all
of them, are all created with art

22
00:01:56,319 --> 00:02:01,000
first and then narrative added later.
So they create a visual, complete story

23
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:06,719
through storyboarding before they ever even add
dialogue to tell the story. And I

24
00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:09,719
think that's a really critical piece of
information if you watch these films to understand

25
00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:15,400
sometimes it's very clear that there's a
visual aesthetic, a visual story and narrative

26
00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:20,120
being told that sometimes it feels like
the dialogue maybe catching up to a little

27
00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:24,080
bit. Yeah, I agree,
absolutely. So today we're going to be

28
00:02:24,159 --> 00:02:31,319
covering values and how they are formed
and how they change throughout time, particularly

29
00:02:31,319 --> 00:02:38,120
through the critical aging points that people
hit of starting to separate out from your

30
00:02:38,159 --> 00:02:42,560
family and culture of origin and getting
into a larger world that forces you to

31
00:02:42,759 --> 00:02:46,439
change your perspective and adopt some truths
that you may not have had, and

32
00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:52,360
how that can become something that people
start to struggle with at different phases of

33
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,639
life. And we definitely see that
represented by some of the different characters we

34
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,759
see in this film, and we're
going to kind of break down how we

35
00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:06,800
see that play out amongst some of
our characters here with Son Lady Aboshi,

36
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:13,840
Ashitaka and Jigo, and then as
always treatment and final thoughts. However,

37
00:03:13,879 --> 00:03:16,680
before we get any further, i'd
like to remind you all that if you

38
00:03:16,759 --> 00:03:23,560
could please take a second like our
show, rate our show. Our show

39
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,000
only grows when you guys do that
and share us with people who listen to

40
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,280
us. We know we've had over
seven hundred thousand downloads now and we're really

41
00:03:30,319 --> 00:03:36,240
thankful for that. Wild wild stuff
as wild. It's amazing, right for

42
00:03:36,639 --> 00:03:40,639
this is a show we put together
literally in my basement, and we are

43
00:03:40,759 --> 00:03:45,240
at a level that is mind blowing
to us, and we're really thankful for

44
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,039
you all. But if you all
could keep this going, keep this growing,

45
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,759
and share it with people who may
also like it. We really appreciate

46
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,400
that. Before we talk about values
and all that, let's do a quick

47
00:03:54,439 --> 00:04:00,120
plot rundown of Princess Mononoke as simple
as that can be. So in this

48
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:06,520
story, we start out with a
demon attack on a Village's story takes place

49
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:14,240
somewhere around the thirteen hundreds in feudal
Japan, and we see this exiled community

50
00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:19,120
being struck by some kind of worm
covered monster attack that turns out to be

51
00:04:19,199 --> 00:04:28,439
a bore, and this boar is
attacking in A young, handsome, athletic

52
00:04:28,519 --> 00:04:33,319
prince comes writing by on his elk, his red elk, and slays the

53
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:39,879
boar, saving the town, but
in doing so he gets cursed with the

54
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,879
same curse because the boar touches him. This leads to him being exiled from

55
00:04:44,879 --> 00:04:49,519
his community and having to give up
his home because they can't have anybody leave,

56
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,519
so he has to give up his
identity as their prince and go seek

57
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:59,439
his fate, knowing that he very
well may still die. And his name

58
00:04:59,519 --> 00:05:06,040
is Ashitaka, who is our central
lead character of the film, Our paladin

59
00:05:06,079 --> 00:05:10,560
if you will, he is the
force of good in this film. You

60
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,680
can look at me with nerd language
judgment all you want, but that's what

61
00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:15,959
he is. He is the Paladin. I will be relating all of these

62
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,959
characters to D and D archetypes.
You're welcome. People don't know what that

63
00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:28,560
means, Some people do. Some
A paladin is a knight that is devoted

64
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:36,439
to a cause, or an order
or a holy god and maintains their commitment

65
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:46,040
to their oath against all situations and
comers. That's basically Ashitaka AnyWho. As

66
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:51,240
Ashitaka goes out into the world,
he starts encountering a much larger world than

67
00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:59,759
his small and almost exterminated community has
kind of isolated from where he starts running

68
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:09,120
in to Iron Town and meeting Lady
Aboshi and also meeting San, who is

69
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:15,560
in conflict with Lady Aboshi's sn is
raised by forest gods and wolves, and

70
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:23,439
then Lady Aboshi is leading Iron Town
but is also the representation of capitalism and

71
00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:29,600
firearms development occurring throughout Japan, and
it turns out to be one of her

72
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:35,279
musket balls that killed the God by
the boor god that cursed Ashitaka, so

73
00:06:35,519 --> 00:06:44,040
the plot starts to thicken. Ashitaka
follows San into Iron Town as San starts

74
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:49,639
to attack Iron Tone, town trying
to rescue the forest and keep the miners

75
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:56,800
and forgers at Irontown from going into
the forest destroying it to get to the

76
00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,959
iron they want from the grounds and
from the mountains, which the animals and

77
00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:05,399
animal gods that Son represents and is
raised by want to stop them from doing.

78
00:07:05,959 --> 00:07:12,399
And then there's a third faction here, which is the imperials, the

79
00:07:12,439 --> 00:07:15,519
samurai and the local lord that are
trying to also get their hands on the

80
00:07:15,639 --> 00:07:18,720
iron. Because the backdrop of this
story is sort of the fall of the

81
00:07:18,759 --> 00:07:25,360
Samurai era, which was brought about
by firearms, because samurai armor, much

82
00:07:25,439 --> 00:07:30,519
like Knight's armour in feudal Europe,
did not stop firearms. So their way

83
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:38,000
of life is getting exterminated and they're
obviously resisting that. So we see these

84
00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:42,800
rival factions clashing, but all the
while people are trying to conquer death and

85
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,240
nature, which are two things that
can't be conquered, and ultimately nature and

86
00:07:47,639 --> 00:07:53,279
the circle of life went out in
this film as it should, as it

87
00:07:53,279 --> 00:07:57,600
should, and when everyone finally restores
the balance of nature and realizes we can

88
00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,639
all thrive, but we can't take
more then we're due, and when our

89
00:08:01,639 --> 00:08:03,759
time is up, our time is
up and we got to stop trying to

90
00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:11,920
fight that. We reached the conclusion
of our film and a weirdly, I

91
00:08:11,399 --> 00:08:15,600
want to say agnostic, but that's
not the right term. I go anti

92
00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:20,639
climactic ending. Son and Ashitaka develop
a little romance. But it ends strangely,

93
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,639
is what I was trying to say. Yeah, I'm with you.

94
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:28,839
It's very very accepting of Son getting
to have her life, but it's it's

95
00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:33,080
a little strange like that. There
is a resolution to the plot because what

96
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,759
happens is one of our friends,
Jigo, we meet along the way,

97
00:08:35,759 --> 00:08:45,279
who is a monk, is our
roguish character. He is operating as an

98
00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:48,159
agent of the Emperor, and his
goal is to try to get the forest

99
00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,639
god's head to stop death, to
also stop the fall of the Samurai,

100
00:08:52,639 --> 00:08:56,120
because if there's no more death,
then if they can't get their hands on

101
00:08:56,159 --> 00:08:58,919
the weapons, it doesn't matter because
they can't die, and they maintain the

102
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,799
rule forever. Holy Grail stuff,
Holy Grail stuff, and we see the

103
00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:11,279
conflict there is. Ultimately, what
happens is the monk betrays everybody, including

104
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:16,039
the forest animals, and leads a
assault on the forest to try to cut

105
00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,960
off the head of the forest god
who represents the cycle of life and death

106
00:09:20,159 --> 00:09:24,039
and succeeds in doing so, and
then death starts coming for everyone until he

107
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,240
restores the head exactly. That's a
good memory, Ben, Yeah, I

108
00:09:28,279 --> 00:09:35,639
kind of said all that, well
done. So values values with each of

109
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:43,440
these three factions or four, I
guess if we're keeping track and can count,

110
00:09:43,759 --> 00:09:45,960
which is questionable. I'm like,
why, I'm not a doctor,

111
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:54,480
I can't count. But we see
four very different sources of values coming into

112
00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:58,039
this film. But before we talk
about the four different kind of factions we

113
00:09:58,039 --> 00:10:01,360
see in their values, we should
we talk about how people form values in

114
00:10:01,399 --> 00:10:05,919
the first place and why that's so
relevant to their behavior. Exact immoon though,

115
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,080
because when I think about values,
I think about motivators. Why do

116
00:10:11,159 --> 00:10:13,279
we do the things we do?
Where does that come from? Why does

117
00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:18,039
certain things feel important to one person
and not to another? Or even like,

118
00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:22,440
why do we both think we're holding
the same value but we're going about

119
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,000
it in very different ways? So
values is really good. I talk about

120
00:10:26,039 --> 00:10:31,720
values all the time with clients because
I think it's important to understand why,

121
00:10:31,799 --> 00:10:33,639
Like I said, why we do
the things we do right? And a

122
00:10:33,639 --> 00:10:37,960
lot of times when I'm talking about
values, I will start sometimes all the

123
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,639
way back into someone's childhood, because
I think where you're going with that,

124
00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,480
Ben is a lot of times our
values are formed by both our family of

125
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:50,240
origin and also the community around us, both like our micro community and also

126
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:56,679
our culture. Correct, all values
for everyone are formed that way. So

127
00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,360
when I talk about values, I
usually talk about them in the in the

128
00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:05,600
context of like having people sort of
list their values, so it'll be things

129
00:11:05,639 --> 00:11:13,200
like family, financial security, physical
health, recreation, religion, spirituality,

130
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,159
friendship, parenting, all that kind
of stuff, right, And so I

131
00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:22,519
like I talk about values less in
the abstract and more in the literal,

132
00:11:22,919 --> 00:11:26,679
more in the concrete. But it
can also be things like, well,

133
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,480
I guess physical health would be longevity. When people talk about like I want

134
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,720
to live longer, I value that, you know what I mean? So

135
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,519
I have people think about what feels
most important to you, but then also

136
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,679
what are your behaviors attached to?
And so that's what I think about I

137
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,759
think of values. I try to
take it less abstract and more critical and

138
00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:52,000
more concrete with clients to help understand
why does something feel so important, Why

139
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:58,240
am I willing to do that?
And when my partner gets on my ass

140
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,600
about something to so that to them
seem small, Why does it piss me

141
00:12:01,639 --> 00:12:05,960
off so much? Because it's connected
to a higher value than Maybe they're not

142
00:12:05,039 --> 00:12:11,919
understanding right, and values are very
personal even though they are formed by the

143
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,600
culture around us. They also,
in a lot of ways are very individual.

144
00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:20,159
And what feels important to me might
not be feel important to you.

145
00:12:20,879 --> 00:12:24,919
And that doesn't mean that because I
value something differently than you, that my

146
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,279
values are the white ones and your
values are the wrong ones. And I

147
00:12:30,279 --> 00:12:33,440
think what's so interesting about this movie
is it does a good job of showcasing

148
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:41,399
how everybody thinks that they're doing the
right thing based on their values. And

149
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,000
why people feel so insistent upon the
actions they take in this movie specifically is

150
00:12:46,039 --> 00:12:50,120
because it is tied to these higher
values that we will talk about later.

151
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:58,200
Absolutely, these values that we see
represented in this film really guide our characters

152
00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:07,440
just like they guy all humans,
and understanding values happen essentially across three layers.

153
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:13,960
There are some values that all things
that are alive have the basic needs

154
00:13:15,159 --> 00:13:20,799
survival, the biological needs, the
core values of humans. Don't kill if

155
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:26,159
you don't have to make sure you're
protecting your loved ones, your children,

156
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,519
make sure you're eating and sleeping.
These are core values that everyone who's born

157
00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:37,600
has, and every animal for that
matter, protect your own. That gets

158
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,840
pretty relevant, don't you think in
this film? Yes, absolutely, But

159
00:13:41,919 --> 00:13:50,799
then we form also our own values
off what we're taught by our parents first,

160
00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:56,279
then by our education, by whatever
religion people are brought up in,

161
00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:05,440
whatever larger cultural identities are present in
your value formation, all show up in

162
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,480
how you think about what you should
do, why and when and what's important.

163
00:14:09,879 --> 00:14:13,039
And that can be different person to
person, depending on how they were

164
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:20,039
raised, where and when and by
who. And then also life changes will

165
00:14:20,039 --> 00:14:24,440
influence your values. When people become
parents, a lot of times you will

166
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:31,159
hear them say, all of a
sudden, my life in perspective radically changed.

167
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,440
A lot of times of people will
say something along the lines of I

168
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:39,360
was really self fish and now I
feel more selfless, right, And that's

169
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:45,639
because their value shifted from more like
self serving to I have to take care

170
00:14:45,679 --> 00:14:48,840
of this child and put their needs
first, right. I think another thing

171
00:14:48,879 --> 00:14:52,600
that also can shift values in a
way that I don't think I always think

172
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,799
about as trauma. So then like
when people go through trauma that bumps against

173
00:14:56,799 --> 00:15:01,080
the value of what survival. So
when you are having like trauma reactions later

174
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,200
in life that can be connected to
the value of survival, Right, I

175
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,440
have to fight, you, I
have to flee because those triggers now are

176
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,159
connected to my value of surviving,
Whereas if you hadn't gone through a trauma,

177
00:15:13,679 --> 00:15:20,120
you might not have connected that value
to those things. Absolutely, yeah,

178
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:28,960
Absolutely Understanding trauma brings people from a
point of view where they are perceiving

179
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:35,679
all the layers of value in a
holistic way, every value you've ever encountered

180
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:43,919
that's meant something to you and snaps
you back into the hardcore biological realities of

181
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:52,720
you could die right now, and
that can be where we get moral injuries.

182
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,960
And while we're not going to discuss
that in great detail today because it's

183
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,759
not necessarily a huge part of this
film, it's important to understand that there

184
00:15:58,759 --> 00:16:03,440
are things that we encounter in life
that put us up against our survival and

185
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:10,639
oftentimes people have an idealistic way of
teaching what we're supposed to do in those

186
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,600
moments that becomes very culturally bound.
That has shit to do with what your

187
00:16:15,639 --> 00:16:21,879
body will decide you're going to do
because your body is going to perceive the

188
00:16:21,919 --> 00:16:26,960
best solution and decide based on perception
only when it's live or die right now.

189
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,399
Yeah, And I think the how
that ties into this movie kind of

190
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,600
what you were saying earlier, Ben, this movie is pretty gory for like

191
00:16:34,679 --> 00:16:38,799
an animated movie like this, yet
to capitation violent. I guess that's the

192
00:16:38,799 --> 00:16:42,279
way I'm looking for, arms falling
off again kinds of stuff. And I

193
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:48,440
think that's a good example of how
in an ideal scenario, we would value

194
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,440
the safety of others, right,
Like, no matter what, I wouldn't

195
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,879
cut someone's head off, cut someone's
arms arms off like happens in this movie.

196
00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:02,480
But then if that's tied to my
survival, that value will be reprioritized,

197
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,880
like the value of other people's safety
and like not being violent will get

198
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:12,039
deprioritized from my value of survival.
Right. And so a lot of this

199
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,759
movie, I think, does talk
about how different people view survival and how

200
00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:22,079
that leads them to do things that
they wouldn't necessarily do in accordance with their

201
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:27,720
morality and values and other situations.
Correct, And we see multiple moments where

202
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:34,960
people's core values what they've internalized from
all those lessons show up and other moments

203
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,640
where they respond in a more primal
way. Ashitaka is a great example of

204
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:48,720
that. It's not everybody in the
world who will take an arrow or a

205
00:17:48,759 --> 00:17:52,319
bullet for another person because they believe
it's right, but some people will.

206
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,720
There are quite a few stories of
Metal of Honor winners of people who did

207
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:02,920
not survive a conflict by jumping on
ad that saved a whole platoon, But

208
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,519
it's not every person that would do
that. How someone's values got internalized and

209
00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:14,039
developed and actualized right in that moment
of survival or not will determine what they

210
00:18:14,079 --> 00:18:19,000
do, and they may not even
know themselves. But seeing how complicated that

211
00:18:19,079 --> 00:18:23,799
can become is really important to understanding
a story like this, that life has

212
00:18:23,839 --> 00:18:30,880
a way of pulling out our core
values and also our survival instincts, and

213
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,519
those can be constantly in conflict before
we take a break. What might be

214
00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:41,599
interesting, especially from Hannah's perspective,
would be how those start to collide with

215
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:47,720
couples, in particular, because this
movie is all about conflicting values. That's

216
00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:52,240
true if you have one person and
a couple who is from a more individualistic

217
00:18:53,720 --> 00:19:02,359
society and cultural background versus another who
might come from a more collectivistic society.

218
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:07,079
That can lead to some pretty significant
challenges. Absolutely, yeah, I feel

219
00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:11,799
like, you know, I don't
know that I do specific values work with

220
00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:18,039
couples, but hearing you describe it
that way, it definitely is a lot

221
00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:22,200
of what I do with couples really
is what do you think is important,

222
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,559
and what do you think is important? And how can we compromise right towards

223
00:19:26,599 --> 00:19:33,640
something that is comfortable for both of
us, or how can we share things

224
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,519
in a different way where to you, dishes are more important and to you

225
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,000
doing laundry is more important, and
so how do we figure that out right?

226
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,400
And one of the ways that we
can do that is the person who

227
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,920
is the most feels the most value
towards something or feels like something is the

228
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,359
most important, you just do that. Then you're the person who gives a

229
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,400
fuck about dishes. Then you're the
one who's gonna do them. You're the

230
00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,519
person who gives a fuck about laundry, You're gonna do the laundry. And

231
00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:03,160
so that's kind of that's one of
the ways that I do that when I

232
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:08,440
work with couples and even with families, there's a lot of you know,

233
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:15,519
we've talked before about unwritten rules in
families and how that has a lot to

234
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:19,240
do with the values of the parents
and what the values of the parents are

235
00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:22,640
and how that can affect their children
and what they want their children's values to

236
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:30,720
be. So there's a lot of
there's a lot of different ways that values

237
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:37,880
can connect to all different kinds of
therapy. Absolutely, and we'll get into

238
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,119
that with each of our characters and
how that makes sense in this film after

239
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:49,279
this break. All right, So
we're gonna start with the title of the

240
00:20:49,319 --> 00:20:56,440
film, Son or Princess Mononoke a
young girl. So was she a princess

241
00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:02,160
before she was taken in by the
wolves? No? Okay, that's just

242
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,519
like a cutee nickname they gave her. She's a princess of the forest because

243
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,839
the princess of the Okay, so
that's what okay, I think is Okay.

244
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:15,519
So we get introduced to Son,
who is a young girl who has,

245
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,799
like we're talking about, raised by
the wolves in sixteen seventeen. Oh

246
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,480
okay, I feel like it's hard
for me to tell. With his animation

247
00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:23,920
style, everyone looks twelve and a
half. Yeah, like you're the twelve

248
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,640
and a half or you're a full
adult. Yeah, and there's no in

249
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,680
the middle, right, thirteen hundred
sixteen seventeen is pretty much full adult.

250
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,839
Okay, okay, that makes sense. Well, probably twelve thirteen, this

251
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,240
is probably full adult. Yeah,
what we would think of is full adult.

252
00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:45,960
Remember this time period, you know, sixteen seventeen, people are moving

253
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:52,480
towards child maybe yeah, maybe.
Yeah. So she is a young woman

254
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,519
who is raised among the wolves and
the forest and the forest gods, and

255
00:21:56,599 --> 00:22:00,920
so we see in her right away
that she is someone who is connected to

256
00:22:02,039 --> 00:22:07,880
the values of that community. So
Son is a young woman who is raised

257
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,640
among the wolves in the forest and
the forest gods. And I think she's

258
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,480
a great example of even though she
is technically a human right a different species

259
00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:19,119
than her family that she's been raised
with, she is connected to the values

260
00:22:19,599 --> 00:22:27,119
of them. She is fighting literally
tooth and nail for the vitality of the

261
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:32,680
forest, for the vitality of her
community. She was once human, she's

262
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:40,680
not now. So that makes me
think of with sund that she was also

263
00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:44,680
abandoned by her family, and that's
why the wolves took her in, and

264
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,480
so that's also so that's a trauma. Right, So that's a trauma that

265
00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:51,559
she experienced, and because she experienced
that, now she has a value that

266
00:22:51,599 --> 00:22:56,240
she doesn't she hates humans. What's
happened when she was a baby? The

267
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,359
wolves are attacking and through the baby
and ran. The parents ran the wolf

268
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:06,799
says. It's like how in the
second Batman movie, Penguin's parents put him

269
00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:11,279
in the sewer and then he was
raised by penguins. I'm so glad that

270
00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:18,279
you said that doing your work for
you, Ben. That will not be

271
00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:22,319
the last Batman referenced today. I'm
sure it will be. That's why he

272
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,359
wrote he rides so hard for the
penguin. People do it? No,

273
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:32,440
No, the penguin, the penguin, the penguin. So yeah, like

274
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,559
what So? I think that that
is a really important part of sons story

275
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:45,000
because it seems like it would be
easier for her to lean into the values

276
00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:56,160
of the forest in order to connect
to her new family, to show solidarity,

277
00:23:56,759 --> 00:24:00,039
to fit in, to adapt.
Yeah. But more, I guess

278
00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:03,640
more of what I'm trying to say
is it would make a lot of sense

279
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,960
if you had a trauma where you
were abandoned that the family that accepted you

280
00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:11,720
like you're gonna like hardcore believe everything
that they are giving you, like really

281
00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:18,240
identify with, really identify, maybe
over identify with it, almost because they're

282
00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:22,799
the people who saved you, and
it feels like you have to be you

283
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,559
have to be on their side.
I guess I think that. Well,

284
00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:30,319
I think that can be true whenever
you work. Whenever I'm working with someone

285
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,119
who is taken from one community to
another, maybe rescued by one community.

286
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,559
Is that they they want to well, they want to fit in, right.

287
00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:44,200
That's also like the value of survival, right is like a lot of

288
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,200
times some people will asimilate, Yes, is to survive right to because that's

289
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:55,359
connected to being taken care of,
Yes, to not being ostracized. And

290
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,839
she's someone who's already been ostracized,
yes, and so to not have that

291
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,440
to her again, she like,
yeah, you're right. Like I get

292
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,960
why she rides hard for the forest
and the gods and the wolves is because

293
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:11,319
she needs to do that. And
that's something where I don't even think that

294
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,480
she would be cognizant of that,
Like that's one of those things where I

295
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,960
don't think she's thinking about that when
she's doing all this. No, No,

296
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,680
she's Mowgli. Yeah, just you
know, some of the things that

297
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,319
are important. She's Mowgli. She
was taken in as an infant. She

298
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:32,359
doesn't know what necessarily what she's not. This is all she's ever been.

299
00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:37,359
But everyone around her knows what she's
not. So she has to fight to

300
00:25:37,559 --> 00:25:45,039
prove yeah, she is, which
can cause an overidentification with the adopted group,

301
00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:51,640
and that certainly becomes true Ofsan.
She is extremely aggressive. She's vicious,

302
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,160
which I kind of love about her
me too. She's like a fair

303
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,960
little animal, she is. But
she fights harder than the wolves do.

304
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,759
Oh yeah, she's spitting blood out
of open wounds. She's climbing up roofs.

305
00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:07,559
She's high, she's like all up
on people's business's. She means it.

306
00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:11,680
She is a druid at the very
in D and D terms, she

307
00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:15,839
is identified with nature. She will
defend nature at all points. Nature is

308
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,720
better than anything else, and anything
that intrudes upon that, yeah, absolutely

309
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,160
comes your way. And so,
as we know, is what we've been

310
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:32,119
talking about. When you identify so
strongly with a value, the people that

311
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,079
seem to be an opposition of that
value are your enemies, your antagonists,

312
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,720
right, So obviously all the people
that she's fighting against. All she sees

313
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,519
is how they are destroying what's important
to her. All she sees is them

314
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:52,039
overcutting the forest and trying to destroy
them. Right, Like there's in her

315
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,160
mind they are the villain and she
is the hero. Correct. Yes,

316
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,640
even though she's actively taking life and
doing the things that are against what she's

317
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:08,480
necessarily wanting. Because they have crossed
a certain line of survival, that action

318
00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:15,200
becomes warranted even though it's not necessarily
within her full value system. Yeah.

319
00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:22,880
And looking at why that's especially important
to consider is there is no pure character

320
00:27:23,839 --> 00:27:29,880
in this film. It makes it
a really complicated one to watch because no

321
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:36,640
one is represented as a true hero. Ashitaka is the closest to a hero

322
00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:40,720
we have and because he is the
benefit also of being almost like an unbiased

323
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,240
third party correct, Like he's coming
in fresh to this situation. Correct,

324
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:52,920
And he rides in and kind of
adheres to what is almost closest to objectively

325
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:59,640
right and seeks to solve conflict and
see the middle sides of things rather than

326
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:08,160
lock into his own perspective because the
Samurai exterminated his race of people. Oh

327
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:14,200
and he has every reason to be
very angry, and he doesn't choose that.

328
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,400
But when looking at Son, Son
doesn't know necessarily who she is outside

329
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:25,160
of who she's been told she is, and she doesn't know who humans are

330
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:33,119
outside of the perspective of animals,
which gets complicated really fast when she's at

331
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,240
least part human like, she's not
someone who's been transformed into an animal.

332
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:45,680
But it's said by other characters in
the film that the Wolf Goddess has kind

333
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:52,920
of taken over her soul. Oh
I miss that? Oh same, okay,

334
00:28:53,079 --> 00:28:59,559
okay, that she has some rain
over it, and that's kind of

335
00:28:59,559 --> 00:29:03,720
how she it's sort of the immortality
ish kind of godlike features that she gets

336
00:29:04,279 --> 00:29:10,000
is because the Wolf Goddess has a
kind of controlling interest in her, which

337
00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:18,599
is why after the Wolf Godess dies
we see some values challenging done by Son

338
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,559
and she becomes a little less warlike. Also the war stops. But okay,

339
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,359
yeah, I guess at this time, me and Hannah can say that

340
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,720
this is the first and one I've
ever watched this movie, so there might

341
00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:34,400
be things we've missed that we could
gain on a second watching. Yeah,

342
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,920
for sure. Also, it's really
hard to see a Japanese Monk voiced by

343
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,480
Billy Bob Thornton. That was weird. Yeah, that was weird. That

344
00:29:45,559 --> 00:29:49,880
was a weird that was a weird, uh weird take. That's weird flex.

345
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:52,680
Yeah, that's the word I was
looking for. So it's weird flex.

346
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:59,000
And some of the really important dialogue
and uh information may or may not

347
00:29:59,039 --> 00:30:03,799
be true. And I think it's
more or less true because when she drinks

348
00:30:03,799 --> 00:30:07,920
the blood and it's I guess kind
of taken on by the wolf, she's

349
00:30:08,279 --> 00:30:12,759
kind of taken into that godlike status. So she's she's kind of she's a

350
00:30:12,759 --> 00:30:25,240
demigod at like Hercules Percy Jackson.
Possibly, sure, I mean, I

351
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,920
think what's coming to mind also with
you saying this is how if we can

352
00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:34,759
understand values, it can also help
us access empathy in terms of perspective,

353
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:41,240
right, because you can kind of
well you can see in the movie how

354
00:30:41,359 --> 00:30:45,960
when Son comes into Iron Town,
how they all view her as, like

355
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,880
I said, like this feral animal. Like they probably would use word savage

356
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,240
if they didn't use that in the
movie, which is a very loaded term

357
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,799
in the United States. Yeah,
because we used to use the word savage.

358
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:56,960
Is a lot white people. We
use the word savages a lot to

359
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,519
talk about Native Americans First Nation people, right, And I think that's what's

360
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:06,200
also coming up for me and thinking
about this is how when they say,

361
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:14,960
like history is told by the victors, how we can dehumanize others because we

362
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:17,839
are looking at it through this lens
of like I don't understand them. Why

363
00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:19,400
would they act like that? Right? And I think this movie is a

364
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:25,440
good representation. And like the son
character of if you're looking at her from

365
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,519
the perspective of the Iron Town people, she would look maybe how the white

366
00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:33,359
colonizers in America would think about the
people that are already here, the indigenous

367
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,240
people of America, of like,
why are they fighting us? Look at

368
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,799
them. They'll come in and they
are aggressors and they'll hurt you, and

369
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,039
they'll like all the horrible propaganda we
would talk about, right, because they

370
00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:47,720
were only seeing it from their point
of view, whereas Forsan and like when

371
00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:51,559
we think about Indigenous people, like
they're viewing the Iron Town people, the

372
00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:56,119
white people as these colonizers that are
coming in and they're trying to destroy us.

373
00:31:56,599 --> 00:32:02,039
So of course we're going to act
accordingly to preserve our culture, our

374
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,279
land, our lives, and how
it is good to think of things that

375
00:32:07,319 --> 00:32:15,160
way when we're trying to be culturally
competent and yeah, just more empathetic that

376
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:20,200
like, we have to be aware
of what perspective is driving the narrative.

377
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:29,160
Correct. It's really important to remember
that in the simile you've drawn here,

378
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:37,759
that the people who were coming into
the United States were taking from nature at

379
00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:42,680
a rate that threw off the balance
of the circle of life that led to

380
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:50,039
food and survival for everyone. And
then just slaughtering the buffalo herds for their

381
00:32:50,079 --> 00:32:53,359
tongues and leaving them to rot in
the sun meant people would starve on the

382
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,720
plains because they wouldn't have enough herds
to feed everybody, et cetera. Throw

383
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:06,039
off the whole balance of nature for
greed, and that ties directly into this

384
00:33:06,119 --> 00:33:12,559
story because it's a human greed issue. Wasn't Europeans versus Native Americans. That's

385
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,480
just North American history and South American
history and African history and world history.

386
00:33:20,359 --> 00:33:23,839
Yep. People come from other places
and don't understand the culture, values and

387
00:33:24,079 --> 00:33:29,680
balance of nature the ecosystem. Here's
the word I was looking for that exists

388
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,160
in a particular region and think,
ooh, well, this resource is rare

389
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:37,279
to us. Therefore it's valuable,
so it's worth me killing them to get

390
00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:42,079
it because it will advance my stature. Where they're going, what are you

391
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,640
doing here? Yeah? Or even
the idea, which I know kind of

392
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:52,759
slides into talking about Irontown, of
this idea that like living beings already are

393
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:58,400
already here using these resources. Correct, Like this idea from like the more

394
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,960
like Lady Oboshi point of view of
like, oh, we found this place,

395
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,759
and so we can do with it
what we will. It's ours now.

396
00:34:05,799 --> 00:34:10,000
It makes us rich and totally deluding
themselves of the fact that there was

397
00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:15,039
already things people, human beings here
and nature and nature well that's what Yeah,

398
00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:22,440
nature here using this stuff, and
like in the colonizers as history we're

399
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:28,000
talking about, there's already people here
using these things, correct, and they're

400
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:34,960
using them to atterate that has made
sense for a long time to their culture

401
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,559
and has kept their culture alive.
They've worked out a delicate balance with nature.

402
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:49,559
And then industrialization tends to have the
opposite effect. And looking at Lady

403
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:53,280
Abashi and Irontown, where they or
what they kind of represent in this story

404
00:34:53,360 --> 00:35:00,199
is the growing movement of industrialization and
the power of greed over the forest and

405
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:07,159
the animal kingdom that had existed before, and how they're completely blind to the

406
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:14,559
impact that their greed has on destroying
that habitat when there could be a balance

407
00:35:14,599 --> 00:35:17,599
worked out, but they choose to
absolutely ignore that. And the forest and

408
00:35:17,639 --> 00:35:23,039
the gods come from their own perspective
of having seen things work a certain way

409
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:30,000
for a very long time, and
they're willing to fight against that. Yeah,

410
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:32,599
like everything, the Ape tribe says, we got to kill these humans

411
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:38,000
because they ain't letting us grow back
the trees. We grow back the trees

412
00:35:38,039 --> 00:35:44,679
they cut down the trees. They
gotta go. And because the Bashi Iron

413
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,920
tribe of Iron Town, all of
them, they are the villains. They

414
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,000
are a threat. They are an
existential and literal threat to the forest.

415
00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:57,320
They are yep. Yeah, So
do we have anything else we want to

416
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:04,360
say about our friends son? All
Right, we'll take a break here since

417
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,800
we've started talking about Iron Town a
little bit, let's keep that up.

418
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,559
So Iron Town is led by Lady
Abashi. What do we know about her?

419
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:17,440
She's a bad lady Abashi. She's
a lady entrepreneur, which I wonder

420
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,960
it does make me wonder culturally at
that time what that was like would have

421
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,400
been rare. Yeah, I assume
so, but I also don't want to

422
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:30,719
assume that based on white culture that
I'm aware of. So she is a

423
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:36,079
female entrepreneur, business owner. She
is running this iron mine, right,

424
00:36:36,679 --> 00:36:42,119
they are deforcing to mine for iron. I think I'm using the word deforced

425
00:36:42,159 --> 00:36:49,280
right, yes, yes, and
strip mining basically. Yeah. And she

426
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,239
is creating firearms, you know,
and that is pretty revolutionary right at the

427
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:58,760
time, and not just firearms for
the sake of firearms. The feeling I

428
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,920
got from her is that she was
creating firearms so that she could arm the

429
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:10,599
people that she was supporting, as
like a wait for them to protect themselves

430
00:37:10,599 --> 00:37:15,079
too and tip the balance of power. Yes, I think that's kind of

431
00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:20,880
what I mean. And so she's
someone that is creating firearms, and she

432
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,519
could definitely be seen as like the
villain, right, evil corporate lady comes

433
00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:31,599
in starts fucking up the local ecosystem, cutting down trees pretty maliciously and unfeelingly,

434
00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:35,360
unepathetically. She's like, this gotta
go. She wants to kill the

435
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,760
forest spirit God, cut its fucking
head off, pretty much. And she

436
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,800
also has moments in the movie where
she's like, leave the women, fuck

437
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,159
them, we gotta go right.
In a lot of stories, like I

438
00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:52,559
think it would stop there, she
would be just this very two dimensional villain,

439
00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:53,920
right. I think what's interesting about
her, kind of going back to

440
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,679
what we're talking about with like the
complicated value systems of the people, is

441
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:06,960
that she takes care of people who
are disenfranchised marginalized within the community. The

442
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:13,639
women who work Iron Town are women
who were sex workers that she seems to

443
00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:17,239
have saved from like the brothel lifestyle, and they are very grateful to her.

444
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,679
And then she also supports a lot
of people who are suffering from leprosy,

445
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:28,280
which was one of those diseases at
the time that was very connected to

446
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:34,239
karma and value, like character value, like people would say like you have

447
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,440
leprosy because you're bad or something like. It was part of a class system

448
00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:38,760
kind of thing in a lot of
different countries, actually, I think,

449
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:44,679
yeah. And so she takes in
a lot of people that are normally disregarded

450
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:50,800
discarded by society, which makes her
like a very interesting, complicated figure where

451
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,119
she's not all bad and she's definitely
not all good. Yeah, but it's

452
00:38:54,320 --> 00:39:00,079
it is. I did find it
very interesting watching this that they complicate her

453
00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:05,119
in that way specifically. Yeah,
she's a complex character, for sure.

454
00:39:05,159 --> 00:39:14,239
She sits in the kind of neutral, a true neutral alignment, where she's

455
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,679
willing to do good or bad whatever
suits her and whatever suits her mission.

456
00:39:20,119 --> 00:39:23,920
I think she by the look of
her, the way she's drawn, she

457
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,559
looks like she was samurai. I
believe she has two swords on, which

458
00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:35,679
is a firm marker that she was
samurai. She's obviously trained to make great

459
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,440
links in the film to indicate once
she takes her robes off and stuff that

460
00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:45,199
she's wearing very ruling class samurai style
kimono and traditional dress of the ruling class,

461
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:50,320
and women were part of that class. There were female samurai, and

462
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,960
she carries all the markers of it. But it looks like something happened or

463
00:39:54,159 --> 00:39:59,920
something obstructed her societally from obtaining her
goals, and she's rebelling against it,

464
00:40:00,159 --> 00:40:06,760
and she's finding outcasts from society to
protect and to bring into her mission.

465
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,239
And she is protecting and rescuing people
from the dregs of society. She's rescuing

466
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:15,760
lepers and giving them jobs and giving
them a place in society as opposed to

467
00:40:15,559 --> 00:40:19,960
what would have happened at the time
was to be banished to leper colonies on

468
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,760
the coast and you go them in
a cave until your skin falls off.

469
00:40:23,079 --> 00:40:28,280
But they say they she bandaged us, she cut our rotting flesh and like

470
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,400
gave us work. And she seems
to hold great respect and doesn't seem to

471
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:37,840
fear that she's also going to contract
this horrible disease. And these Yeah,

472
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:44,840
because if I remember correctly, the
people who have leprosy are the ones who

473
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,760
actually come up with the designs for
everything, Like they're the creative part of

474
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,159
the mine. I think, didn't
they say they're the R and D Department.

475
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,679
Oh yeah, yeah, exactly,
they're the gunsmiths. Yeah, yes,

476
00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:05,480
right, and so they actually make
the weapons and had the undertones to

477
00:41:05,519 --> 00:41:09,719
her. She's rebelling against Samurai society
and is recognizing the shift that's coming,

478
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:15,440
which we know happened everywhere. She's
taking these people into fold and note,

479
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,079
we're driving progress forward. We can't
stay stuck in these old ways. But

480
00:41:19,639 --> 00:41:24,960
something in her value system must have
changed to make her resent that so fiercely

481
00:41:25,639 --> 00:41:30,880
that she's willing to fight against it
and tip the balance of power to her.

482
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,960
So she has control now and she's
trying to remake society in her own

483
00:41:35,079 --> 00:41:42,320
vision, and she's taking women who've
been cast into brothel life and giving them

484
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,679
empowerment. Sort of, yeah,
I would say so. I mean,

485
00:41:46,559 --> 00:41:52,760
I feel like the women feel very
taken care of. They feel respected,

486
00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:57,760
they feel they feel like they're being
taken care of, like and I think

487
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,239
that that's something that I would imagine
coming from a brothel in the thirteen hundreds

488
00:42:02,519 --> 00:42:08,079
was probably a nightmare status. And
so I feel like when somebody again,

489
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:14,039
right when we talked about earlier about
trauma having an effect on your values,

490
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:20,039
it would make a lot of sense
that these women would feel very strongly about

491
00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:22,920
Lady Aboshi and feel and want to
follow her and want to help her and

492
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,679
want to do things for her because
she took them in and she is and

493
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:32,639
she's taking good care of them as
point to a point for sure, even

494
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:40,599
though, like Britney said later on
in the film, she says, leave

495
00:42:40,639 --> 00:42:45,719
the women, don't worry about it. Mm hmm. She's willing to sacrifice

496
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,440
them. She was willing to sacrifice
them in that moment. And I think

497
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,800
a part of that might be because
her goal became bigger than the women it

498
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,800
always was. Yeah, I mean
she says, I've done all I can

499
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,639
for them. They're on their own
now, Yes, that's what she says.

500
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:05,480
Yeah, there's a caveat to leave
them, but I've done all I

501
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:09,840
can for them, which is also
false. Yeah, but within her value

502
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:17,960
system, she's justifying her manifest destiny. If you will to tip the balance

503
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:24,360
of power and complete this mission of
exterminating the forest god who is making the

504
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:29,000
animal smart and capable of fighting against
her and blocking her will, If she

505
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:35,760
exterminates that forest god, she can
have a clear path to conquer the forest.

506
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:40,599
Yeah. And this is where you
can even get into a more nuanced

507
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:47,280
discussion of values and motivators. Right
is does she taken these people because she

508
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:52,960
genuinely feels like they deserve a safe
place to be, that they deserve to

509
00:43:52,119 --> 00:43:57,079
be taken out of these situations that
maybe she'd been in it sometimes, you

510
00:43:57,119 --> 00:44:00,360
know, like take them into a
place where they feel more empowered. Or

511
00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:06,320
does she know she's wiley? And
does she know that if I take in

512
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,840
these kinds of people, they will
be so grateful for me to me that

513
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:22,360
they will follow behind me no matter
what she's that mostly because these are always

514
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,199
her servants, Like the women are
treated well and they're treated well as compared

515
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,800
to being at a brothel, and
it could be prepared to many places.

516
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:37,280
But also they're not doing great,
you know, they're they're working four day

517
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,320
shifts, like they have their own
little community. They're given some agency and

518
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,920
respect over their lives, but there's
a huge glass ceiling and there's no way

519
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,280
to step up well. And also
there's a ton of misogyny. Those guys

520
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,679
that work there talk mad shit about
these women, right, They basically call

521
00:44:54,719 --> 00:45:01,880
them horse, dirty horse basically and
more subtle language, well not even really

522
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,880
not subtle. I said, like
look out for the fishy smell or something

523
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,400
was it was, I remember exactly
what they said. All I wrote was,

524
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:15,480
Wow, these guys are misogynistic.
And so it's like it's like what

525
00:45:15,519 --> 00:45:22,239
we're talking about, which that she
will Obashi will create a sayer system to

526
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:27,480
a point, but she's not creating
a system where she's like, don't talk

527
00:45:27,519 --> 00:45:31,440
about women like that, you know, where there's more like true egalitarianism going

528
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:37,159
on. Are we starting to say
that she is Lady Abashi, the breaker

529
00:45:37,199 --> 00:45:43,119
of chains, the mother of forges, we're talking about Denaris. Yeah,

530
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,559
my main girl. Yeah, if
she's your main girl, you missed the

531
00:45:46,599 --> 00:45:52,639
point of that moment. I think
the show missed the point. Agreed.

532
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,360
I think she was always going to
take that route, but it was a

533
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:02,159
bad Yeah whatever that or on the
tenth of never Yeah, exactly, but

534
00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:06,880
exactly like Yeah, look at lady
aboushi Is. She's complicated, but there's

535
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,320
clearly something that's causing her to start
compromising both the values of the Samurai and

536
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,760
also the values that she's setting up
for these people that allows her to pursue

537
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:21,719
her own sense of Why is the
word ambition? I guess m is this

538
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,800
word I'm looking forward to. Her
own ambition seems to drank higher than anything

539
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:30,199
else because she has placed herself and
this mission above everyone else's needs her.

540
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,559
The representation she's sold to these peoples
I'll keep you safe song as you serve

541
00:46:35,639 --> 00:46:39,039
me. But when that clashes with
her mission, she's quick to abandon them.

542
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:45,840
Yeah, because she'll find more showing
her true value she places on them.

543
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:50,320
At least that part does Yeah,
or even just like Hubris, right

544
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:55,639
of believing that which we can all
fall into, of believing that our viewpoint,

545
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:01,960
and our greatness is what's most important. Like we are currently in our

546
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:07,280
society struggling with a lot of people
like this, like the Elon Musks,

547
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:13,159
the Jeff Bezos, the politicians who
are very much like I am, the

548
00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:19,719
Way, the True, and the
light. And so to keep me prioritized,

549
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:25,159
to value me is to value the
future and society and my brain and

550
00:47:25,199 --> 00:47:29,920
my ambition, like you were saying, Ben, and that other people are

551
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:37,440
more are well, are less valuable, are more disposable because they don't have

552
00:47:37,039 --> 00:47:40,320
as much to offer the world.
And so this is where like people can

553
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:49,440
also take values ideas and kind of
twist them to fit their needs to do

554
00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:54,239
bad when we all do this mental
gymnastics to justify ourselves to ourselves, you

555
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:59,719
know, I'm sure there's stories that
lady Obashi's telling to herself about why it's

556
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:05,199
okay that she's doing stuff that like
looks on paper horrible. I'm cutting down

557
00:48:05,199 --> 00:48:07,079
all these forests, I'm fucking up
all these people that were animals that already

558
00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:13,480
hear these gods, which that's tempting
a lot of bad energy vibes, you

559
00:48:13,519 --> 00:48:19,320
know, And what she must have
to tell herself to make that okay,

560
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,599
as it aligns with her values and
ethics correct. She's literally informed that her

561
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:27,760
weapons are responsible. That's how she
Taka's entire point of talking to her is

562
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,760
informing her her weapons are killing the
gods of the forests that are changing the

563
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,400
world for everyone, making them into
demons that go into other communities and fuck

564
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:45,280
their shit up like pollution basically and
poison including him like he's got proof and

565
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:51,719
she's like, nah, m hm, the samurai hurt me and fuck them,

566
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:57,079
Yeah, pretty much at all costs, which could be coming out of

567
00:48:57,079 --> 00:49:02,840
a trauma that she experienced. Certain
to be that hyper focused on the goal

568
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,320
the way that she is, I
think it would make a lot of sense

569
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,320
that that would come out of trauma. Absolutely, Yeah, she was stripped

570
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:16,360
of something and yeah for sure,
and she's taken power back. That's the

571
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,400
last fucking thing she does. That's
what she's doing. And it kind of

572
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,400
makes me think of when I do
values work with clients sometimes where I have

573
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:30,320
to kind of like throw down the
hammer is are you really holding up to

574
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:36,159
this value you're telling me that you
believe in or are you prioritizing your ego?

575
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:38,880
Like and then when I say you
goo I mean how it connects to

576
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:45,559
like your defensiveness of yourself and how
and that can show up as a trauma

577
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:47,280
reaction. It can also show up
like we talk about with couples. This

578
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,400
is a good one. Do you
want to be a writer? Do you

579
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,079
want to have a good relationship?
Exactly? You could argue that's a valuous

580
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:57,719
conversation. Oh, certainly. Do
you want to value your relationship or do

581
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,360
you want to value your ego?
Yeah? And what that can next to?

582
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:06,800
Exactly? And yeah, And so
I think with someone like Lady Abashi

583
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,840
and people in the real world to
remind me of her, that's something to

584
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:15,760
contest with, right. And some
people can't look in the mirror and really

585
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:23,840
acknowledge where they might be prioritizing values
like my ego. Most people know that

586
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,800
that wouldn't be good to say out
loud. It's not gonna feel good to

587
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,920
say. I'm not going to feel
good to hear that. Like I actually

588
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:37,719
value my physical appearance, my status
more than anything else money, Right,

589
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:45,079
And so we will connect sometimes those
things to values that feel more palatable to

590
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:51,039
justify, like I said, justify
ourselves to ourselves and others, Like I

591
00:50:51,039 --> 00:50:52,760
said, like a lot of things
that maybe we'll talk about this more with

592
00:50:54,320 --> 00:51:02,000
Gigo is where we can be prioritizing
things that are individual and self serving and

593
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:07,679
telling a story that like, no, actually, it's because like I'm so

594
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:09,480
important or my mission is so important
or what I bring to the world so

595
00:51:09,519 --> 00:51:14,039
important that I have to be doing
this stuff and you all should be grateful

596
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:19,039
for it. Correct. Can you
tell that I'm thinking of Elon Musk really

597
00:51:19,079 --> 00:51:24,880
hard? I mean, there's a
meme going on about him that or going

598
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,400
around about him for the past couple
of years. It makes me laugh really

599
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,800
hard. It's a really unflattering picture
of him taking a sun shower somewhere that

600
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:35,440
says bro had enough money to be
Batman, but chose to be the Penguin.

601
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,119
The second Penguin refends one episode.
The one I always think about is

602
00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:43,000
everyone this is years ago, back
when he's still kind of a good reputation,

603
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:46,280
is that everyone thinks Elon Musk is
Tony Stark, but he's Lex Luthor.

604
00:51:46,639 --> 00:51:50,840
It's like, well, I read
that and it forever changed how I

605
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,559
thought about him. That was like
started the crumbling of him in my mind.

606
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,679
Yeah, m hmm, yeah,
makes sense. That makes sense.

607
00:51:59,679 --> 00:52:05,679
And you know, when we see
these characters like lady Abashi kind of represents

608
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:14,039
a fallen paladin, a vengeance paladin
or oathbreaker is what would be called in

609
00:52:14,159 --> 00:52:19,320
D and D where she's representing a
promise but she stopped and there's consequences to

610
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,480
that and those have to be sorted
out before you can get on the right

611
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:27,679
path again. And that's absolutely what
happens to her. She must be humbled

612
00:52:27,679 --> 00:52:34,119
from her ridiculous ideas that she's larger
than this community that she represents, that

613
00:52:34,159 --> 00:52:38,199
she's sworn an allegiance to protect,
and then she stops protecting them and she

614
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:44,239
nearly loses her life. Yeah,
she loses her goddamn arm. She does.

615
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,719
And then she's like maybe, oh
yeah. So what I kind of

616
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:52,000
wanted to ask both of you is, what do you think about her saying

617
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,760
well, we're going to do it
better next time. Do you feel like

618
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:00,679
she'll be able to shift her values
after having that experience or does it feel

619
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:06,679
like she won't be able to shull
fall right back into that pattern? So

620
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:12,000
which experience, because I think that's
an excellent question. What are you talking

621
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,599
about, like the totality of the
whole experience or just the wolf head,

622
00:53:14,639 --> 00:53:19,840
ripping, tortality, losing the arm
just I think also the impact of like

623
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:24,159
death almost like encompassing everything. Yeah, the way I think of it is

624
00:53:24,199 --> 00:53:29,119
like she has witnessed the bigness of
what she was trying to conquer and she

625
00:53:29,159 --> 00:53:31,800
got her ass handed to her.
Yeah, pretty much. I agree,

626
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:37,320
pretty much. And I think that's
an excellent question at the meat of the

627
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,480
story. Do I think that's enough
to cause a value shift for her?

628
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:44,440
I do so do I That's why
I was just curious what you both thought,

629
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:51,960
because I really feel like because also
because it went so badly, So

630
00:53:52,199 --> 00:53:57,920
it went so so badly that I
think that that is enough for her to

631
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:00,440
kind of take a step back and
look aside and kind of figure out,

632
00:54:00,519 --> 00:54:05,280
like, I don't think that that
value is actually serving me anymore, and

633
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,000
I think I need to do something
different. I mean, it's it's what

634
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,199
we say all the time, right
that people change when they're uncomfortable enough.

635
00:54:13,159 --> 00:54:16,760
And if this ain't her rock bottom, baby, I don't know what it

636
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:21,000
is, you know, And this
is the reason, like the real world

637
00:54:21,079 --> 00:54:24,119
examples of this, white people come
to therapy, right, like something catastrophic

638
00:54:24,159 --> 00:54:30,599
happens that changes something really huge for
them. They lose something very significant they

639
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:32,480
can't keep. They've learned a lesson
that can't keep doing things the way they

640
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:38,360
used to. They cannot. And
I just had one of those had a

641
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:44,400
spark, a spark at a teacher
wants to tell me that I think she

642
00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:45,960
like to watch the gears go on
my head because they'll go like click clicklickick,

643
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:51,280
click and then lock onto something.
And I just realized who, Lady

644
00:54:51,280 --> 00:55:00,440
Abashi reminds me of Wanda Maxima.
Yep, oh so so long okay song

645
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:05,119
as Sam Raimier, whoever wrote her
story in Multiverse of Madness, isn't writing

646
00:55:05,159 --> 00:55:10,119
her story? Yeah, I believe
the answer to your question is would this

647
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:20,519
be a big enough event of actually
facing down pure extinction and a world destroying

648
00:55:20,559 --> 00:55:23,840
event enough to shift her values of
realizing, Oh, you must in fact

649
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:30,280
accept the truth that death and life
cannot be conquered by any living thing.

650
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:35,679
It is for the gods, and
it can't. It's a spiritual thing.

651
00:55:35,679 --> 00:55:38,719
You just it's just truth, hard
truth. Can that be messed with,

652
00:55:39,199 --> 00:55:45,920
conquered, defeated? No? And
is that enough to cause a shift,

653
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:50,239
yes, But to me it's it
almost harkens to like Wanda realizing the effect

654
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,760
she's having on other people in Wanda
vision, realizing that her maintaining this narrow

655
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:59,280
vision of this reality, holding onto
it and not accepting the truths of the

656
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:07,679
world, that no one can conquer
death and life right absolutely, and then

657
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:13,039
that being enough to cause her to
drop that and finally grieve whatever Lady Aboshi

658
00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:22,239
is not facing in her life she's
playing out in progressively more. I don't

659
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,559
know what the right word is.
Dangerous, Sure, we'll go with that,

660
00:56:24,679 --> 00:56:32,360
dangerous ways that have significant impact on
radiating like layers of exponential destruction on

661
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:37,280
everyone else because she won't deal with
her shit. Yeah. And also I

662
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:43,400
think because she free and lost her
free arm, that that's a reminder to

663
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,000
her every day right to stay humble. You know, that's like a lot

664
00:56:46,039 --> 00:56:51,599
of when you come from that more
like ecocentric mindset like this happens a lot

665
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:53,880
of people when they have to do
recovery from substance use. Right, is

666
00:56:53,920 --> 00:57:00,559
that you have to keep mindful of, like your humility within the situation.

667
00:57:00,039 --> 00:57:06,119
Yep I. How easily we can
lapse into old patterns of behavior, old

668
00:57:06,119 --> 00:57:07,920
ways of thinking, like sort of
quote unquote the easy way out if you

669
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:14,400
will, even though it's not easy
on you. And so I think that

670
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,840
if she hadn't lost her arm,
if other things like that had happened,

671
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,360
I could see maybe her slipping back
into it. But I think because it

672
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:25,440
had such a profound she's a profound
reminder that's going to affect her every day

673
00:57:25,519 --> 00:57:29,079
for the rest of her life.
She's gonna have to change the way she

674
00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:35,880
does everything that I think that might
be enough for her to stick to the

675
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,840
change. I agree it has potential. Yeah, will it I don't know.

676
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:45,480
Will she follow the path of Wanda
and retreat back into it the path

677
00:57:45,559 --> 00:57:52,400
of Teddy in the Shutter Island story, where he comes face to face with

678
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:58,000
how bad a traumas and chooses to
continue to ignore it, further retreat even

679
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:04,000
to the point that his ability to
make independent decisions is taken from him and

680
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,719
he doesn't have to do it.
Yep, it's a risk with her and

681
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:12,719
her the ambiguity, but she seems
to have shown enough shift that it's hopeful.

682
00:58:13,039 --> 00:58:17,880
When I was watching videos about the
film this week, people did very

683
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:23,199
much talk about how she had a
shift at the end, and how and

684
00:58:23,199 --> 00:58:28,039
how they really felt like they really
believed that she would be able to create

685
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:36,679
a more natural town this time.
People felt very hopeful about that that if

686
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,159
things stay in balance, she's trying
to use the natural resources of the world

687
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:47,920
that are given to us and the
natural evolution that comes without destroying everything,

688
00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:53,440
but only taking what can be replaced. If she learns that message and accepts

689
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:59,480
it, she would grow. And
seeing as this is a teenager's kind of

690
00:58:59,519 --> 00:59:01,760
story, it makes sense that that
might be a lesson to learn at that

691
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:06,480
age. Oh yeah, do we
have anything else we want to cover with

692
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:12,760
her? I feel like that was
an excellent coverage of her character and ambiguity

693
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:17,000
of it. I'm good, Brittany
is good. I'm good. I am

694
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:22,599
also good. Let's take a break
here. So our our lead, our

695
00:59:22,639 --> 00:59:28,000
paladin, our main guy. That's
what I put in my notes. Yeah,

696
00:59:28,199 --> 00:59:31,920
as played by Billy crud Up.
I know, and in real life,

697
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:36,519
Billy crud Up and Claire Danes,
who was the voice of Son Princess

698
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,960
Mononoke, they got together in real
life. Hmm, it didn't last to

699
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,400
them, But that's interesting about how
who they play in this movie. Yeah,

700
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:53,199
for sure, indeed. And the
Prince is such an interesting character as

701
00:59:53,239 --> 00:59:58,519
he's well the nature God is the
Christ figure of the story, right,

702
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,559
yeah, oh yeah, for sure, for sure, even the even the

703
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:07,840
beginning of him getting cursed by the
demon and then the only choice he has

704
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:12,599
is to leave his community and he
can never come back, Like he loses

705
01:00:12,639 --> 01:00:20,159
his complete and full identity automatically and
has to go on this quest to not

706
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:25,039
die, which he might anyway,
which he might anyway because it's demon stuff

707
01:00:25,159 --> 01:00:30,280
and his culture. Right, I
don't know what else to say, Like

708
01:00:30,559 --> 01:00:32,039
he's fucking cursed by a demon.
I mean that shit's fucked. Like you

709
01:00:32,119 --> 01:00:37,000
gotta go and I never want to
see you ever, right, due to

710
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:38,360
our laws, we can't even watch
you, Like he got no ceremony just

711
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,800
to cut your hair, get out, Yeah, because you're you're gone.

712
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,360
You have to leave us. But
looking at that's important. He has to

713
01:00:46,519 --> 01:00:52,800
hold on to the truth that feel
most secure to him, because that's all

714
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:58,840
he has left. Well, And
it also makes me really curious if we

715
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,800
had got to spend more time with
his village, with his people. I

716
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:13,119
assume that they have a really highly
evolved moral value system because he is so

717
01:01:13,199 --> 01:01:15,519
like we were saying, we were
saying in the beginning, he almost like

718
01:01:15,679 --> 01:01:22,000
rises above all the foibles that everybody
else is falling into. Like, he

719
01:01:22,119 --> 01:01:31,320
maintains this very empathetic, neutral,
curious, open minded stance that is almost

720
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:37,599
like inhuman in a good way,
like the jesus Y part of it.

721
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,079
Yeah, like rising above a lot
of this stuff and having like a high

722
01:01:40,239 --> 01:01:51,559
moral standpoint he does. He maintains
is like lawful, good to neutral kind

723
01:01:51,639 --> 01:01:57,719
of alignment where I'm going to do
what feels like the most right thing to

724
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:00,280
me. But he was also like
like, yeah, I'm sure his culture

725
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:07,320
does have a very set way of
viewing things and has become more inclusive as

726
01:02:07,519 --> 01:02:09,400
they were almost exterminated, they say
kind of in the beginning of the movie.

727
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:14,440
There's only five hundred of them left, and they're getting weaker. Yeah,

728
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:21,679
they make she people right. Their
genetics are getting weaker. They're essentially

729
01:02:21,679 --> 01:02:23,960
it's unimplied they've reached the point of
starting to inbreed and like trying to fight

730
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:30,760
against that and recognizing that their time
on the planet as a cohesive tribe may

731
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:35,360
be coming to an end. Yeah, but it does make me curious because

732
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,760
they are so isolated. Is that
why they're able to like someone like Oshataki

733
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:45,360
can exist that has such moral yeah, high standards, right, because I

734
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:51,119
guess the assumption is like they're just
not as corrupted by everything else. Well,

735
01:02:51,159 --> 01:02:53,159
and also I mean, yeah,
I think so. But then also

736
01:02:53,639 --> 01:03:00,480
they have to figure out how to
compromise. They have to figure fure out

737
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:06,920
how to maintain a certain level of
morality, I feel like, in order

738
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,760
to continue on with their journey of
trying to keep their people and cooperativeness.

739
01:03:12,199 --> 01:03:15,800
Yeah, they have to be cooperative. They can't. They really have to

740
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:20,559
compromise because there's not that many of
them, and so they can't allow They

741
01:03:20,599 --> 01:03:27,960
also can't experience the loss of making
brash decisions, right, they can't murder

742
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,920
each other out of anger exactly.
Oh yeah, so it holds them to

743
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:37,559
a higher stated their survivals tied to
behaving, yes, and being good to

744
01:03:37,639 --> 01:03:39,360
each other. Yeah, which is
a great point. And what it also

745
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:45,079
makes me think of because when I
was reading the Wikipedia page about this movie,

746
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,719
one of the themes other than like
the obvious ones of like environmentalism stuff

747
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:52,360
like that, is like the loss
of innocence. And when you were saying

748
01:03:53,559 --> 01:03:59,280
about that with like that tribe and
how they are isolated and so that kind

749
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:04,400
of also allows them to live in
this way is how when we are younger

750
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:10,880
and our world smaller, if we
are safe, right, Like I'm sure

751
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,800
we all know kids and teenagers that
we've worked with where they're so sure of

752
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,880
everything. Everything's so black and white
and right and wrong, and good people

753
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:21,679
do that and bad people do that, and it's very unnuanced, right,

754
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,079
Yes, And then as you get
older and you leave, like Ashataki leaves

755
01:04:27,079 --> 01:04:31,199
his little community and goes out into
the world, he's exposed to all these

756
01:04:31,239 --> 01:04:39,440
more complicated ideas, right, that
sometimes you actually may hurt someone to save

757
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:43,480
someone else, like kind of like
ethical trolley problem kind of stuff. Right.

758
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:49,320
And it's so hard to have those
conversations with teenagers and kids because they

759
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:53,320
are so sure of themselves, which
is they're supposed to be except for them

760
01:04:54,440 --> 01:05:00,119
development developmental. And there's so little
wiggle room sometimes around why people do things

761
01:05:00,119 --> 01:05:05,440
that don't feel good or look good, right, And I think I wonder

762
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:09,519
if that's like the loss of innocence
that is sort of exploring this movie too,

763
01:05:09,519 --> 01:05:13,119
of like he's being exposed to this
idea that things aren't always able to

764
01:05:13,159 --> 01:05:17,599
be as clear cut as we would
like them to be, right every side

765
01:05:17,639 --> 01:05:21,400
is trying to kill the other and
they are doing it for their moral reasoning,

766
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:29,199
right, and they aren't. People
don't always leave you the option of

767
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,239
having like a safe and peaceful compromise
they do not. Sucks, Yeah,

768
01:05:33,239 --> 01:05:36,280
it does, it royally sucks.
Yeah. He seems real comfortable with that

769
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:42,039
because when he rides into that battle, Yeah, whoever he sees his the

770
01:05:42,079 --> 01:05:46,519
aggressor, he just immediately shoots with
his boone because of his now demon arm

771
01:05:46,599 --> 01:05:50,159
strength, Like their arms are just
getting lobbed off by his arrows. And

772
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:57,519
that was bananas, bananas when his
arrow would just like pop a head off

773
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,239
or pop off an armors, Like
what the fuck? But again because that

774
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:04,159
demon energy, right, and he's
I guess he's a palock, Paladin warlock,

775
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:08,599
multi glass, I got that demon. I feel like at this time

776
01:06:08,639 --> 01:06:13,159
in the podcast, I should explain
that Ben right now is leading a D

777
01:06:13,199 --> 01:06:16,639
and D campaign that he has manipulated
Hannah and I to be a part of

778
01:06:18,239 --> 01:06:25,440
just such a strong language offering.
Has offered to teach us how to play

779
01:06:25,519 --> 01:06:30,039
D and D it so it's fresh
on his noggin. Yes, which is

780
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:35,559
why I feel like you're using so
much of these vocal words I am.

781
01:06:35,679 --> 01:06:39,039
Also, you know a lot of
my network uses him and now speaks it.

782
01:06:39,159 --> 01:06:42,039
So you know, we we learned
to speak it in the pandemic when

783
01:06:42,039 --> 01:06:45,719
there was nothing else to do besides
learn things none of us thought we'd ever

784
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:51,519
do, including D and D and
golf and then golf. There was nothing

785
01:06:51,519 --> 01:06:55,000
else to do for the three years. So I mean, we get it.

786
01:06:55,039 --> 01:06:59,679
We watched everything. Listen, I
understand that men have to create a

787
01:06:59,679 --> 01:07:02,840
sport around taking long walks with their
friends. Yeah, it's very sweet.

788
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,880
I mean we some of us just
try to snuggle, but the others are

789
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,519
a little too masculine for it.
Still, I mean that's why wrestling got

790
01:07:09,519 --> 01:07:14,960
created, right, Yeah, I
mean that was obviously usually done for men

791
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,239
to be naked with each other and
exactly exactly. Yeah, so you know

792
01:07:19,239 --> 01:07:24,480
you poor guys, Yeah, I
know, just want a friend and nap

793
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:28,400
with me, like Chandler and Joey
or not, but Joey and Ross.

794
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:32,840
My wife would yell at me for
that anyway. Yeah. Looking at Ashitaka,

795
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:36,880
it's really important to understand, like
he's got a really clear cut sense

796
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:42,840
of right and wrong, and he
does have to start recognizing he can't just

797
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:47,960
ride it and start like dismembering people. Yeah, with his new you know,

798
01:07:48,039 --> 01:07:51,000
god like pars because the demon force
inside of him tries to take control.

799
01:07:51,639 --> 01:07:55,400
Yeah, and that starts to be
a valued conflict of He's getting this

800
01:07:55,719 --> 01:07:59,880
rage to strike that's not coming from
him, and he saw how that can

801
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,760
assumed the boor god and he doesn't. He's fighting to not become that and

802
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:08,360
to solve these problems before he loses
his battle with that. And that's a

803
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:12,599
lot for a teenager to recognize.
Of. Yes, in fact, the

804
01:08:12,639 --> 01:08:15,800
world can scar you, damage you, and force you to act outside of

805
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:20,239
your will out of fear and anger. And you are not immune to that

806
01:08:20,359 --> 01:08:26,920
because you decided you weren't going to
be Yeah, And that's what egocentrism leads

807
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:30,079
people to think. One of my
favorite questions to talk to first responders about

808
01:08:30,159 --> 01:08:35,560
is in your early career and childhood
life, who were you taught that bad

809
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:41,560
things happened to? Oh hmm,
And they always have the same answer,

810
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:47,319
bad people. Who are those?
Well that too, But I mean think

811
01:08:47,319 --> 01:08:51,800
about how simple we teach children.
Yeah, but when you ask them,

812
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:56,159
and now that you've been on the
job for five years, who do bad

813
01:08:56,239 --> 01:09:01,960
things happen to? Everybody, everybody, everyone, and then usually there's a

814
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:10,520
second term added to it is some
synonym of indiscriminately. And it's easy for

815
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:14,239
you too, because we're all therapists. Yeah, we know, we don't

816
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:15,800
go on. That's something we talk
about with clients all the time, is

817
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:20,479
like, sometimes bad things just happen, and not because you deserve it.

818
01:09:21,279 --> 01:09:27,760
Are they deserved it or you did
anything wrong? Just happens, And that's

819
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,520
really hard. That's a really hard
lesson to learn in life. It's a

820
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:36,359
really hard end. It's a really
mean lesson. It is acceptance, and

821
01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:41,840
sometimes it's because of evil, and
sometimes it's become a circumstance, and sometimes

822
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:47,920
evil latches on to circumstance a la
Lady Abashi, where we struggle to find

823
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:53,520
the lines and he struggles to explore
that because he gets kind of taken in

824
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:58,560
by her and sees the ambiguity of
where she's at. Like finding someone's on

825
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:02,159
that neutral evil spectrum is that's tough
to figure out, like okay, but

826
01:10:02,199 --> 01:10:05,760
they are doing some good, but
their basis like where do you? Is

827
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:10,880
this someone I need to exterminate?
But then that you know, forest rage

828
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,680
in him is like kill this bitch
yeah. Well, I think also an

829
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:18,239
interesting influence and maybe this is why
they had the kind of like flirty romantic

830
01:10:18,239 --> 01:10:24,119
stuff in it is that he starts
to get a crush on someone who is

831
01:10:24,159 --> 01:10:29,760
demonstrating a lot of behaviors that he
maybe wouldn't have aligned himself with but are

832
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:33,239
now awakening in him. Yeah.
So that complicates it too. That starts

833
01:10:33,239 --> 01:10:36,079
to complicate his also sense of morality
as well. It's a good point,

834
01:10:36,199 --> 01:10:41,600
Oh, I can like someone who
does stuff like that. Yeah, And

835
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:45,000
when you're younger, there is this
more like hardcore sense of like we were

836
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:45,880
saying, bad guys good guys,
of like, well, if they do

837
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:48,960
that, they're a bad guy,
and I can't possibly like them, especially

838
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:53,279
if I'm the good guy. Yeah. And so that leads to what we

839
01:10:53,399 --> 01:10:56,720
have talked a lot about this podcast
before, dialectical thinking, and when I

840
01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:00,840
have to use that with clients when
they have a really hard time wrapping their

841
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:04,439
head around the fact that there's someone
that they know or that they love or

842
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:09,119
maybe even themselves, we're like,
how can I be both this say and

843
01:11:09,159 --> 01:11:11,600
that it has to be a button
there? And then I'm like, well,

844
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,720
you can put an in the middle, you know, of like like

845
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:19,359
Lady Abashi. This can be someone
you've met who has done horrible things and

846
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:25,880
has done really beautiful things for people
who really needed help, and both those

847
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:29,439
things can move for at once,
and sitting in that is so uncomfortable for

848
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:33,279
us because we do like to choose
a side because it's simple and usually promotes

849
01:11:33,319 --> 01:11:39,960
survival. Yeah, who's the us
and who's the then? Correct, as

850
01:11:40,079 --> 01:11:43,880
at some point the world will force
you to make a choice. You got

851
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:48,159
that, right, though sometimes that
choice doesn't come or you can decide in

852
01:11:48,279 --> 01:11:55,479
degrees a lah Switzerland without everybody bank
here. Yeah, so nobody's gonna invade

853
01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:00,800
us because we control everybody's money.
But then you're you're still making a choice.

854
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,760
Yeah, A non choice is a
choice. Silence is a choice,

855
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:14,319
you know. Non action is a
choice. Right, and ash Taka really

856
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:21,640
chooses along the moral lines because that's
the only identity he has left. Yeah,

857
01:12:23,279 --> 01:12:30,359
is to represent I carry this burden
of saving the world within me and

858
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:34,039
making making it to the forest gods
that I can stop this curse from affecting

859
01:12:34,239 --> 01:12:41,039
everything and me. Well, he
also has the benefit of, even though

860
01:12:41,039 --> 01:12:44,479
he's coming from such an isolated community, he also kind of oddly has the

861
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:48,520
benefit of like seeing the bigger picture
because he's coming in from as an outsider,

862
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:54,920
right of like, this isn't just
who's gonna win right here right this

863
01:12:55,079 --> 01:12:59,640
area of the world, This has
lasting impact, and that's connected to a

864
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:03,840
higher value of like the lively like
the world right which we see now in

865
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:06,920
modern day world, which is climate
change? Right, what are we going

866
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:11,319
to prioritize and people saying, well, we have to prioritize these things that

867
01:13:11,399 --> 01:13:15,520
hurt the climate because that's kinect to
survival, while other people are like,

868
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,279
what does that matter if we don't
have an earth to live on? Correct,

869
01:13:20,039 --> 01:13:25,640
if we're living on Kevin Costner's water
World, Oh god, among the

870
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:30,399
worst films ever made. Oh god
that in so long never saw it?

871
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:35,119
Don't will don't don't, oh we'll
watch it? Oh God? AnyWho?

872
01:13:35,359 --> 01:13:41,479
But the uh, I think you're
right that Ashtaka comes in with an ability

873
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:44,840
to hold an end. He has
the ability to hold the dialectical thinking both

874
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:50,000
things can be true simultaneously where other
characters can't, which sorry, which I

875
01:13:50,039 --> 01:13:56,279
think is connected to the bigger picture
that his community had to always hold in

876
01:13:56,399 --> 01:14:00,279
hand if we want to survive.
Going back to survival. If we want

877
01:14:00,279 --> 01:14:02,439
to survive, we have to figure
this the fuck out. We gotta be

878
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:06,600
collective, like hyper collective. Yes, yes, anyway, go ahead.

879
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:13,520
Oh yeah, it's good. It
all ties exactly together, and it's it's

880
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:17,239
important to recognize how him coming in
with that outside perspective like you guys are

881
01:14:17,279 --> 01:14:21,960
mentioning, allows him to tie that
higher truth into break through people's values that

882
01:14:23,359 --> 01:14:27,319
are now also getting corrupted by survival. That we have an enemy present.

883
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:32,399
Yes, this is not a cultural
myth. We're perpetuating to prepare people to

884
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:38,319
deal with something. The wolf is
at the gates literally, yeah, that

885
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:43,359
is our introduction to Lady Abashi's people, a wolf attack by son writing the

886
01:14:43,399 --> 01:14:46,239
wolf pups and being told like,
oh they're not they're big, but they're

887
01:14:46,239 --> 01:14:49,840
not big, Like those are the
pups? Wait till you meet mama.

888
01:14:50,119 --> 01:14:57,600
Yeah yeah, and then they shoot
mama. Yeah they do, but it's

889
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:01,359
still yet again works into this higher
narrative, higher narrative, higher narrative that

890
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:06,399
ash Tuka is representing. You guys
need to get off your bullshit and recognize

891
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:11,119
we're all gonna die. Yeah if
you keep this up. And they're like,

892
01:15:11,199 --> 01:15:13,479
no, but these people are trying
to kill us, and of course,

893
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:17,840
the minute lady Abashi takes her guard
and leaves the samurai led by the

894
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:28,520
local shogun attack and she is now
forced to work with our boy, the

895
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:32,960
monk Jigo. Jigo, Jigo.
So should we take a break there,

896
01:15:33,159 --> 01:15:39,079
we should? All right, we'll
be right back. So coming from a

897
01:15:39,119 --> 01:15:45,560
super outward, hyper collective lens,
let's narrow right back down to a super

898
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:51,119
individualistic lens, a super self serving
lens, which is Jigo in the story.

899
01:15:51,239 --> 01:15:57,680
And Jigo is such an interesting way
to represent that because Jigo appears to

900
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:06,039
be the wise old man archetype and
assuming yes he does worldly sees everybody,

901
01:16:06,239 --> 01:16:12,399
knows everything, he knows all the
secrets, he knows people's culture. He

902
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:20,239
recognizes Ashitaka for being of his the
Amishi people's like I see that ball,

903
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:26,600
right and the bowl in particularly the
bowl, Oh okay, A big interchange

904
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:30,359
about that that really lets ashi Taka
kind of be seen as you know,

905
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:33,079
who he is and of his people, and he has a big conversation with

906
01:16:33,119 --> 01:16:38,479
about that. But appears to be
not a snake, but god damn,

907
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:41,960
is he the worst, the worst. But he doesn't reveal himself. He

908
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:45,239
appears to be just kind of like
advisors kind of around. I kind of

909
01:16:45,279 --> 01:16:47,479
like the he just seems to pop
up right, kind of like maybe I'm

910
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:53,960
the clericy kind of person the connection
to spirituality and morality, and I'm kind

911
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:58,199
of neutral to everybody. But he
is most certainly not. He is on

912
01:16:58,319 --> 01:17:04,600
his own side. He is a
sneaky, sneaky sneak who is the sneakiest

913
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:10,520
snake there ever was. Yeah,
and he's on a mission to get the

914
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:15,119
head of the forest God for the
Emperor so that the Emperor in anger must

915
01:17:15,319 --> 01:17:18,000
it needs to fear death and keep
his reign going forever and then doesn't have

916
01:17:18,039 --> 01:17:24,399
to keep fighting Lady Aboche anymore,
which I think probably lends to the undertext

917
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:29,600
that it was him, or that
it was the Emperor who cast out Eboshi

918
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:35,840
in the first place, or someone
like him. Sure, and then it's

919
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:44,600
really complicated for her to trust Jigo, although Gigo probably was not revealing to

920
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:47,720
her that he's on the Emperor's team
until the end. He's playing every side

921
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:50,760
he can, Yeah, I don't
think so. I don't think she catches

922
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:56,359
on until the very very end where
he finally reveals that he wanted it for

923
01:17:56,399 --> 01:18:01,880
the emperor. I think that sounds
right, and where he represents a particular

924
01:18:02,039 --> 01:18:08,159
dangerous he doesn't care, he's chaotic, he doesn't care what happens to anybody.

925
01:18:08,359 --> 01:18:13,119
Yeah, he's just looking out for
him. Somewhere along the story of

926
01:18:13,119 --> 01:18:17,600
his life. For whatever reason,
he decided that his value is number one

927
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:21,600
New Maruno, right, and that's
it. And that's it, and he

928
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:25,359
is and we also are taking other
stuff, and we also know the least

929
01:18:25,399 --> 01:18:29,199
about him. Yeah, I would
say we have the least amount of background

930
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:32,840
from him as well, so we
also don't really have a lot more awareness

931
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:39,920
besides what he shows in the film
as just being self serving, right,

932
01:18:40,399 --> 01:18:46,239
And he's representative of a lot of
characters that seem to exist throughout some of

933
01:18:46,279 --> 01:18:53,680
the stories of your and Japanese movies
seem to have this characters show up.

934
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:59,960
And even though the last Samurai was
kind of dances with Wolves with Samurai,

935
01:19:01,319 --> 01:19:11,359
never saw Avatar with Samurai. But
there's definitely a character in there who's representing

936
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:15,359
a little bit later in this process
of firearms coming in of the westernization of

937
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:23,439
Japan. It happened after Commodore Perry
started bringing Western uniforms and military culture and

938
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:29,199
the samurai really resisting heart as they're
facing their own extermination. That's the central

939
01:19:29,199 --> 01:19:30,159
point of this one. But there's
always a character like that, like the

940
01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:40,239
guy in three hundred who turns over
the Spartan goat path to the Persians,

941
01:19:42,039 --> 01:19:45,720
the kind of deformed character, yeah, who can't hold the shield and the

942
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:50,279
Spartans reject him, and then the
Persians welcome in in and give him a

943
01:19:50,319 --> 01:19:55,760
harem, which I think is also
how you can become self serving. Like

944
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:59,880
that is, if you feel ostracized
by a community, if you feel like

945
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,119
no one's taking care of you.
I mean, that's also like a lot

946
01:20:03,159 --> 01:20:09,159
of people that suffer from like pathological
narcissism. A lot of times that's a

947
01:20:09,199 --> 01:20:14,079
product of trauma, right, you
know, and they're not just borne that

948
01:20:14,239 --> 01:20:17,439
up their own ass like they it's
like I have to take care of me.

949
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:20,520
I have to take care of number
one because no one else is going

950
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:29,760
to right and I need to be
hyper prioritized to and how much that's connected

951
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:33,279
to your survival. Correct. And
this character is represented in media all over

952
01:20:33,319 --> 01:20:40,000
the place. You see it over
and over again. They're frequently carry some

953
01:20:40,199 --> 01:20:45,960
status in society, but not enough
that they get jealous and they get really

954
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:49,479
close to power without having any really
close to money without having enough and no

955
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:56,000
recognition, they start to seek that
and start taking matters into their own hands

956
01:20:56,039 --> 01:20:59,520
for their own means. And I
think you of Game of Thrones, there

957
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:04,800
were two characters in particular who are
among the most powerfully dangerous characters in the

958
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:09,640
series that fit this archetype very very
well. Who am I thinking of?

959
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:15,479
Little Finger? Ding? It's one
And you wouldn't say with Saraus, would

960
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:20,640
you, Varus? Varus? Is
that you're thinking of, Oh, look

961
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:27,439
at me, well done, well
done? Yep, exactly. I think

962
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:33,079
he's Those are great parallels too,
little Finger, especially what a bastard?

963
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:38,680
Yeah Varus too? Yeah, oh
yeah, for sure. I think because

964
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:43,119
we get more of a backstory of
Faris, I can have more empathy for

965
01:21:43,359 --> 01:21:45,800
why he does the things he does. The Little Finger feels like more of

966
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:48,520
this character where you just don't know, yeah, and so you can kind

967
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:53,399
of fill it in with a lot
of just like more of that moral black

968
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:58,119
and whiteness we've been talking about.
And this character sits, it doesn't care.

969
01:21:58,199 --> 01:22:00,680
He's going to do whoever's going to
pay him, and he's going to

970
01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:05,039
organize his forces to do the shady
thing and think you see they kill all

971
01:22:05,039 --> 01:22:09,720
those bores that the boar god leads
into war, and they do it deceptively,

972
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:15,359
which is very against the balance of
nature destruction with mines and gunpowder,

973
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:21,279
killing mass numbers of them, which
is very against the seam of this killing

974
01:22:21,319 --> 01:22:27,239
something to eat. It seems to
be relatively regarded as okay. Killing thousands

975
01:22:27,279 --> 01:22:31,279
of them in one fell stroke could
shift the balance of power, while deceiving

976
01:22:31,319 --> 01:22:36,000
them and then wearing their skins to
get close to the animal god feels real.

977
01:22:36,119 --> 01:22:40,720
Gross. Oh real gross. I
forgot about that partial just see me

978
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:44,880
too, me too. And it
also didn't like how they moved they were

979
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:49,479
wearing those skins. I don't think
you were supposed to. Yeah, yikes.

980
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:58,119
But I think recognizing that there are
ways that people form values that are

981
01:22:58,119 --> 01:23:02,159
connected to no one and nothing but
themselves in these stories always represent the most

982
01:23:02,279 --> 01:23:06,720
dangerous and least predictable character, and
it's important to remember, like who you're

983
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:11,239
letting close to you, who you're
letting provide context to the world, and

984
01:23:12,399 --> 01:23:16,000
watch carefully what people do, not
so much what they say. But I

985
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:19,720
think Gigo is a really interesting character
to look at. It, and it's

986
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:25,000
important to include as we're looking at
values versus acceptance. He's accepted he'll never

987
01:23:25,119 --> 01:23:30,880
have enough, so he does whatever
fuck he wants. Yeah, and if

988
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:34,680
he's someone that has experienced ostracization himself, then it becomes a thing of like,

989
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:39,079
I've accepted that people, I'm not
gonna be part of a group anyway,

990
01:23:40,239 --> 01:23:44,760
so I might as well get mine. Yeah, pretty much, you

991
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:46,840
know. And also too, I
would say, depending on the cultural he

992
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:54,119
grew up in, like our culture, American capitalistic culture, we also do

993
01:23:54,159 --> 01:24:00,920
a lot of moralizing of that very
linear way of success. Yes, like

994
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:05,760
the way that we like believe we're
mere talk so when we're not. But

995
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:14,279
also like the way that we assume
billionaires are millionaires earned that, you know,

996
01:24:15,359 --> 01:24:18,039
because they're better, smarter, whatever, And if we just idolize them

997
01:24:18,199 --> 01:24:23,159
enough and try to form our life
around them, that we can do what

998
01:24:23,239 --> 01:24:26,079
they did and we can have enough
money. We just haven't wanted to bad

999
01:24:26,199 --> 01:24:30,800
enough. I literally my last note
when watching this movie was my paraphrasing of

1000
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:35,399
the John steinback quote that everyone thinks
that they're a temporarily embarrassed millionaire and that's

1001
01:24:35,399 --> 01:24:40,520
why people will like vote against their
interests and act against their interests because we're

1002
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:45,319
not a We're I'm not an actual
poor person, I'm a temporarily embarrassed millionaire,

1003
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:47,600
right. And I was like,
that's such a I think about that

1004
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:56,279
quote all the time. It's pervasive
throughout history, in our own history right

1005
01:24:56,319 --> 01:25:03,680
now, pretty pretty firmly entrenched in
millionaire billionaire worship exact, ammouondo anything else

1006
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:10,640
we want to say before we shift
into treatment, Nope, I think it's

1007
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:16,720
a clear picture of how these values
collide in the ambiguity and lack thereof all.

1008
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:21,319
Right, let's take a break here. So treatment, we've kind of

1009
01:25:21,359 --> 01:25:26,560
like touched upon treatment here and there, you know, we were talking about

1010
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:30,199
Lady Abashi and stuff. Something that
came to mind for me in thinking about

1011
01:25:30,239 --> 01:25:40,279
treatment was thinking about the groups of
marginalized people that are in Iron Town and

1012
01:25:40,359 --> 01:25:45,920
how much they're willing to do things
that we would maybe describe as a moral

1013
01:25:46,359 --> 01:25:53,119
because they have connected their resources getting
their needs met and their survival and their

1014
01:25:53,159 --> 01:26:00,239
dignity to Lady Abashi and this Iron
mind, right, and how that is

1015
01:26:00,279 --> 01:26:04,359
a way that people will get stuck
in these cycles. And then like,

1016
01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:10,520
even when we've talked before about why
people will do like criminal behaviors right and

1017
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:15,760
join gangs, join gangs. Yeah, that's a great example. And how

1018
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:21,079
I think from a treatment, from
a more broader treatment lens, I think

1019
01:26:21,199 --> 01:26:28,000
what is helpful to actually cut through
this kind of stuff is having social services

1020
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:34,199
programs for people so that they can
have dignity resources get their needs met,

1021
01:26:34,239 --> 01:26:42,119
so they don't have to rely on
people with slippery moral values, and then

1022
01:26:42,159 --> 01:26:45,399
they don't have the desperation factor where
they're willing to compromise. Maybe they're even

1023
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:50,119
their own values for their survival,
you know. So in this situation,

1024
01:26:51,159 --> 01:26:56,760
part of maybe being able to hold
that compromise between like Iron Town and the

1025
01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:02,920
forest is having resources that can come
in and lift up the community so that

1026
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:10,479
they can't be corrupted by lady Abashi
and her agenda where they don't feel like

1027
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:14,039
they have to. I think a
lot of what we see in our country

1028
01:27:14,119 --> 01:27:17,840
too, like why people want to
keep doing coal mining and stuff like that,

1029
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:23,680
is that they don't have resources to
do something else, right, and

1030
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:27,520
so you have to provide people with
an opportunity to get their needs met in

1031
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:31,640
other ways so that we can evolve
all together and make choices that are good

1032
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,680
for the collective. We can't just
be like, just get on board,

1033
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:40,640
forget about the fact that you don't
know how to make a living besides relying

1034
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:45,399
on fossil fuels, you know,
because we need to help climate change.

1035
01:27:45,399 --> 01:27:48,199
What does climate change mean to me
if I can't afford to take care of

1036
01:27:48,239 --> 01:27:51,960
my children? Right? So I
think it's just good to know that in

1037
01:27:53,119 --> 01:27:56,399
order to help people grow and help
communities grow, we do have to go

1038
01:27:56,479 --> 01:28:00,640
in and provide resources that help people
be able to make more values based decisions

1039
01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:04,640
that aren't just survival value. So
that's kind of what I wanted to highlight

1040
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:10,479
because sometimes people will be like social
services, social services, like why do

1041
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:14,640
we need things like that? Because
that is a deep part of asking for

1042
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:17,840
change as an individuals. You have
to make sure that people get those needs.

1043
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:23,920
Bat Yeah, absolutely absolutely. And
I feel like something else that I

1044
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:29,079
want to add to that is they
have to be well funded social services.

1045
01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:33,439
A big part of the problem in
our country is that they are not well

1046
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:42,000
funded. They are not properly funded, and so that then creates a scarcity

1047
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:45,479
experience for a lot of people.
There's a lot of people who need this

1048
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:51,560
kind of support, and we in
this country one of the values that we

1049
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:56,520
have is not about poor people.
We don't give a fuck about poor people.

1050
01:28:56,920 --> 01:29:01,319
We don't give a fuck about marginalized
people. We say we do,

1051
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:04,359
we say we do, but we
don't. None of our actions match that.

1052
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:12,560
And so also, you know,
all three of us have worked within

1053
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:16,800
agencies and had all different kinds of
experiences, and I think a big part

1054
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:21,439
of what I always hoped could be
better is the is the funding of some

1055
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:27,560
of the social services, that it
could be more consistent, that it could

1056
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:34,439
be just not based on donations.
If we had to run something based on

1057
01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:40,520
donations only, like, that's not
going to be enough. It's just not.

1058
01:29:41,079 --> 01:29:46,000
Nope, it's not. And it
produces the same problem over and over

1059
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:54,960
that the most qualified staff leave,
leaving only the least qualified staff who are

1060
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:59,640
also the most burned out to work
with the highest need people. Yeah,

1061
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:03,399
it's fucked and none of us do
it anymore. And none of us do

1062
01:30:03,439 --> 01:30:13,720
it anymore because we don't have to
just fucked. Yeah. Yeah, and

1063
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:17,119
you see some of the best people
stay and do that, but they choose

1064
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:25,720
poverty or near poverty to probably the
mission. And having well funded, well

1065
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:34,359
resourced, well educated staff and well
societally elevated and received social services that are

1066
01:30:34,399 --> 01:30:40,000
given a status with a society that's
not oh you know, well that's good

1067
01:30:40,039 --> 01:30:42,880
for you. Yeah, it's good
for you. You're taking care of those

1068
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:47,720
people they really need help. Yeah, AnyWho like looking at the importance of

1069
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:55,000
that and how much shamee it can
create. It creates class mobility, which

1070
01:30:55,199 --> 01:31:00,720
doesn't exist in this story. People
get stuck in the world that they have,

1071
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:05,840
which the example of people that are
coal miners or farmers or whatever other

1072
01:31:08,039 --> 01:31:18,439
devalued class that is also simultaneously incredibly
necessary for society to function. It creates

1073
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:25,600
a big problem that people also are
taught that poor people are bad and that

1074
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:30,000
you may be poor, but you're
not as poor as them. And if

1075
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:32,399
you like your children to eat,
you got to keep doing what you're doing.

1076
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:36,840
And you can't look at the world
beyond that because that's not relevant to

1077
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:43,680
you and people like us, And
that creates a really dangerous dynamic that keeps

1078
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:47,600
people kind of like is happening in
Iron Town. Yeah, they are operating

1079
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:54,119
against their own interests because they're not
willing to go backwards because if they go

1080
01:31:54,399 --> 01:31:58,840
backwards, they know how bad it
is, and they're not willing to give

1081
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:02,600
that up. They don't believe they
have class mobility. They're sex workers living

1082
01:32:02,640 --> 01:32:11,800
another life, right, That's what
they They and lepers cast out. Anybody

1083
01:32:11,800 --> 01:32:15,640
else will just exterminate us or throw
us on a rock. Yeah, which

1084
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:18,119
is what's so funny about that is
that there's more of them than her,

1085
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:24,359
Lady Obashi. They can rise up
almost always. She gives them guns,

1086
01:32:24,359 --> 01:32:27,119
but they would never turn them on
her. Oh, there is what she's

1087
01:32:27,199 --> 01:32:31,199
doing. I hate to say it. She rolls high on that charismas stet.

1088
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:40,199
Yeah, she sure the buck does
not twenty right? Was there anything

1089
01:32:40,239 --> 01:32:43,279
else? Did you just speak D
and D Look at you? You know

1090
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:46,399
everything I learned is against my will? That's false. You guys played DD

1091
01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:50,279
before I did. We did?
We did? We did? They're misrepresenting

1092
01:32:50,279 --> 01:32:57,079
here any years before I played?
For that matter? Yeah, like two,

1093
01:32:58,359 --> 01:33:03,439
that would be more than one,
So plurals appropriate cut this out anything

1094
01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:08,560
else for true move We want to
talk about any other specific characters that we

1095
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:12,560
wanted to get further into. I
don't think so. I feel like the

1096
01:33:12,600 --> 01:33:19,199
plot resolves a lot of things.
I think having social services in some kind

1097
01:33:19,279 --> 01:33:28,399
of regrounding to a value of some
degree of spirituality, not religion, but

1098
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:32,479
spirituality and recognition of that there are
things that are bigger than you, kind

1099
01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:36,119
of like when we were talking about
with substance use, people must accept that

1100
01:33:38,399 --> 01:33:42,680
they are not bigger than the substance
they're trying to use and their body's chemical

1101
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:46,039
affinity to it, and that they, like everyone else, are susceptible and

1102
01:33:46,079 --> 01:33:57,119
in twelve step language, particularly more
susceptible to fall victim to the power of

1103
01:33:57,159 --> 01:34:00,840
the substance. And I think the
opposite also is true with in a good

1104
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:04,680
way, with spirituality that people lose
connection with is that there are things that

1105
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:08,680
are bigger than us. There is
a natural order that is larger than any

1106
01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:14,720
of us, and we must accept
our place in that and that we can't

1107
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:17,000
destroy the earth on which we live
if we would like to have a place

1108
01:34:17,039 --> 01:34:20,000
on which to live, I would
say the only thing maybe treatment wise,

1109
01:34:20,039 --> 01:34:24,880
but they'll kiva is really short,
is they probably could do with like a

1110
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:29,439
mediator of some sort a third party
that comes in to help with the compromising

1111
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:33,159
between Iron Town and the forest.
Yeah, I think it's always it's it

1112
01:34:33,199 --> 01:34:39,479
is really hard to not get in
your own head about your Like we're talking

1113
01:34:39,479 --> 01:34:45,159
about survival your needs. And so
that's why people will go to therapists to

1114
01:34:45,199 --> 01:34:50,039
do like co parenting, coaching,
and mediation, because they sometimes need a

1115
01:34:50,039 --> 01:34:56,399
third party to direct the conversations,
to keep it on track, to keep

1116
01:34:56,439 --> 01:35:00,159
it constructive. So I could see, like maybe as Ana should talk key

1117
01:35:00,239 --> 01:35:04,119
type, being helpful, ongoing,
someone with an outside perspective that can keep

1118
01:35:04,119 --> 01:35:11,720
them on goals. Yeah, and
the mission statement solid and a drawback yet

1119
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:15,439
again to the reminder that none of
us are bigger and none of our immediate

1120
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:17,800
needs are bigger than the world we
should live, and we can not sacrifice

1121
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:23,920
that. So we must come back
to this idea we're all playing on a

1122
01:35:24,039 --> 01:35:29,239
level playing field, and let's de
escalate so we can approach things from that

1123
01:35:29,239 --> 01:35:32,800
standpoint yet again, because the minute
they lose track of that, we get

1124
01:35:32,800 --> 01:35:38,119
war. So we will take our
last break here and be back with final

1125
01:35:38,159 --> 01:35:43,680
thoughts. All right, and go
first. Okay, I now that I've

1126
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:47,000
talked about this movie, I I
feel the same way I came in,

1127
01:35:47,399 --> 01:35:50,439
like very like take it or leave
it. I do want to watch it

1128
01:35:50,479 --> 01:35:55,279
again, Sam, because I do
feel like kind of what we're talking about

1129
01:35:55,279 --> 01:35:58,479
in the beginning, and I probably
said something very similar Spirited Away, to

1130
01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:02,279
be honest, So this is only
this second time I've watched Mayazaki movie,

1131
01:36:03,199 --> 01:36:06,319
the other one being Spirited Away for
this podcast when we did it there.

1132
01:36:06,359 --> 01:36:13,520
And so like this style of animation, this kind of storytelling, it doesn't

1133
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:17,640
really isn't something I seek out and
watch myself. I just don't connect with

1134
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:21,319
it emotionally for whatever reason. I
think it's just like a preference thing that

1135
01:36:21,399 --> 01:36:26,000
don't really have a lot of control
over, so it's hard for me to

1136
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:28,439
grab onto it. And maybe for
the reason you brought up earlier, Ben,

1137
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:32,840
with how they create the movie and
the art, is the way that

1138
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:38,399
my brain's trained to consume things through
this culture is just has a hard time

1139
01:36:39,239 --> 01:36:44,479
adjusting to it, right as Yeah, So I do think I would want

1140
01:36:44,479 --> 01:36:47,640
to watch again to see what I
can appreciate now that we've talked about it

1141
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:50,279
and I've already seen it, and
I feel like kind of the way way

1142
01:36:50,319 --> 01:36:55,520
about Spirited Away. So I don't
I don't know if I would ever watch

1143
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:57,960
this movie a ton. I'm interested
to watch it one more time to like

1144
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:00,600
see what I get out of it
in a second watch. I do really

1145
01:37:00,680 --> 01:37:04,159
like the character of Princess mononok I
love a little girl, well in my

1146
01:37:04,199 --> 01:37:08,560
mind, she's a little girl,
but like a young female character who's kind

1147
01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:12,479
of like bananas. Like like I
said, she reminds me of Louise Belcher.

1148
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:15,479
I like like those kind of characters. Maybe because I'm in aries,

1149
01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:20,920
I like connect to that kind of
vibe. But I do think it's very

1150
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:24,520
cute. I can definitely say people
love it, and like I said,

1151
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:28,000
it's one of those things that just
isn't like my type of art, but

1152
01:37:28,079 --> 01:37:30,600
I can see the beauty and why
other people love it so much. And

1153
01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:33,000
I also would be curious what one
of these movies would look like on the

1154
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:38,600
big screen and how like all encompassing, Like I could see that being a

1155
01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:42,439
very different experience than watching it at
home. So those are kind of my

1156
01:37:42,479 --> 01:37:47,279
thoughts on Princess Monon Okay, Okay, I'll go next. So I feel

1157
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:51,279
pretty similar to how Brittany feels.
I feel like after talking about it and

1158
01:37:51,359 --> 01:37:58,760
getting a better understanding of the characters, and I definitely want to watch it

1159
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:04,960
again. I don't know if I
can say that I like it and I

1160
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:10,840
want to watch it again because I
feel like it also deserves another shot of

1161
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:15,000
to really experience it now that I
kind of am not trying to figure out

1162
01:38:15,039 --> 01:38:17,560
what the fuck is going on the
whole the whole fucking time, which is

1163
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:20,000
kind of which is kind of what
it felt like. I think I thought

1164
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:23,479
I was started away too, like
my brain was trying so hard to like

1165
01:38:24,439 --> 01:38:30,920
keep track of what's happening, but
I wasn't like experiencing it almost exactly.

1166
01:38:30,079 --> 01:38:34,039
That's a lot, Yeah, it's
yeah, it is so so again,

1167
01:38:34,159 --> 01:38:40,000
like I totally understand why people love
this film, and I'm excited to give

1168
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:47,000
it a second watch. And I
think that it was really interesting to talk

1169
01:38:47,039 --> 01:38:53,039
about this film today, So I'll
go next. This film is near and

1170
01:38:53,039 --> 01:39:00,600
dear to my heart. We watched
this at like a Operation Snowball staff sleepover,

1171
01:39:00,199 --> 01:39:02,600
like we all kind of like were
in a basement kind of bonding and

1172
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:12,239
working before we did this huge I
don't know how to even describe Operations Snowball,

1173
01:39:12,279 --> 01:39:18,760
but like where we were peer teens
kind of like working on creating like

1174
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:24,000
large group, small group weekend experience
where we were the staff facilitators and we

1175
01:39:24,119 --> 01:39:26,520
had to learn to bond because we're
going out to be dealing with people's real

1176
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:30,920
emotions to not only the skits that
we do, but also the speakers and

1177
01:39:30,039 --> 01:39:35,439
the whole experiential kind of like Tavistock
Group program that I was part of in

1178
01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:40,840
high school and even junior high.
And we needed to bond and we had

1179
01:39:40,920 --> 01:39:44,359
kind of a sleepover at one person's
house to do this, and somebody brought

1180
01:39:44,399 --> 01:39:49,600
up watching this movie. And I'd
never seen anime stuff really outside of Dragon

1181
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:53,279
ball Z, which one of my
friends really liked. DBT never did it

1182
01:39:53,279 --> 01:39:56,279
for me. I was like,
Dad, I don't get this. That's

1183
01:39:56,279 --> 01:39:58,239
fine. I know people love it. It's okay, It's just not for

1184
01:39:58,319 --> 01:40:01,199
me. But this one, this
movie struck me. Like the beauty of

1185
01:40:01,279 --> 01:40:08,640
the art and the incredible animation and
the storytelling was huge, and I think

1186
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:14,199
watching this was something that just broadened
my mind, even though I think I

1187
01:40:14,239 --> 01:40:18,119
was fifteen and I watched it and
some of it was is overwhelming. Yeah,

1188
01:40:18,640 --> 01:40:26,399
the messaging and the oppressive realities,
it's a lot, and there's a

1189
01:40:26,479 --> 01:40:30,920
lot of watching that go really bad
in a really found the violent way in

1190
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:34,479
this film, and it caught me
off guard and expect any of that from

1191
01:40:34,479 --> 01:40:41,239
this and watching it again now as
an adult and looking back on it without

1192
01:40:41,399 --> 01:40:46,279
the egocentrism of being fifteen. You
see a little more echoed truth that we

1193
01:40:46,399 --> 01:40:49,880
have all realized as people who are
helpers, who sit and listen to people's

1194
01:40:49,920 --> 01:40:56,479
stories, that there are truths and
these are it. We must take care

1195
01:40:56,520 --> 01:41:00,840
of our world. We must recognize
that none of us can and conquer death,

1196
01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:03,840
and we must recognize that everyone has
their own agendas. And if we

1197
01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:10,840
have any hope of peace, we
must be able to both understand and recognize,

1198
01:41:11,880 --> 01:41:17,359
but also stay true to the growth
the world affords us. Like the

1199
01:41:17,399 --> 01:41:23,279
opportunities for growth the world affords us, we cannot stay stuck in the messaging

1200
01:41:23,399 --> 01:41:26,399
of our elders, because the world
will grow and change. There's a Hebrew

1201
01:41:26,399 --> 01:41:29,840
proverb I found doing restart. I
think for this podcast or maybe for a

1202
01:41:30,359 --> 01:41:33,239
paper that I was writing, But
there's a Hebrew proverb that as a non

1203
01:41:33,319 --> 01:41:38,439
Jewish person I wouldn't have come across, but it said, don't confine children

1204
01:41:38,479 --> 01:41:42,000
to your own learning for their of
a different time. Oh. I like

1205
01:41:42,079 --> 01:41:45,239
that. I like it a lot. And this movie kind of covers that,

1206
01:41:45,399 --> 01:41:46,880
Like, Yeah, at some point
we will have to go into our

1207
01:41:46,920 --> 01:41:54,279
own world and face the truths that
were hidden from us, that either our

1208
01:41:54,319 --> 01:41:59,800
elders didn't know or didn't want us
to perceive yet. But the balance of

1209
01:42:00,039 --> 01:42:02,840
understanding, you still get to find
your own path and do what's right for

1210
01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:09,880
you, and that can change things, but not everything. But the Yeah,

1211
01:42:09,920 --> 01:42:12,279
I really I like this movie.
I don't know how often I'll seek

1212
01:42:12,279 --> 01:42:15,239
it out because it's a lot.
It's all. It's sensory overload, it's

1213
01:42:15,239 --> 01:42:19,760
emotional overload, it's hard truth all
over and then just complete sensor overload and

1214
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:25,239
watching it and the TV that it
both is huge with a huge sound systems

1215
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:30,640
a lot too. Yeah, I
was really getting me overwhelmed. Maybe it

1216
01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:33,600
was just fund system. So the
one speaker was right over my shoulder and

1217
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:40,920
I'll be like, well, spooky, pooky, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1218
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:43,159
When I had a kid and I, you know, wasn't going on

1219
01:42:43,239 --> 01:42:45,520
vacation, so I bought a really
nice sound system for my TV. And

1220
01:42:45,560 --> 01:42:50,359
it's it's a lot like, oh, have you had a Have you had

1221
01:42:50,359 --> 01:42:54,039
an Atmas sound in your house before? I know I have not, but

1222
01:42:54,119 --> 01:42:58,039
I want it. And then you
like feel the sound all over your house

1223
01:42:58,079 --> 01:43:00,560
like you do in the movie theater, but the screen isn't nowhere near is

1224
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:05,279
big and not expected pot shit.
Well. On that note, as always,

1225
01:43:05,319 --> 01:43:10,079
you can find us on Facebook,
Instagram, and TikTok at Popcorn Psychology.

1226
01:43:10,319 --> 01:43:12,520
If you want to get in touch
with us, you can always write

1227
01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:15,439
to us at poplinnpsychologygmail dot com.
If you would like to support us,

1228
01:43:15,439 --> 01:43:20,479
so really appreciate it as we are
a totally self funded DIY podcast, So

1229
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:24,960
if you want to be a Patreon
patron, we really appreciate that. If

1230
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:28,159
you are a ten dollars or more
patron, you get early unedited access to

1231
01:43:28,199 --> 01:43:30,119
our episodes. If you're fifty dollars
or more, you get to pick the

1232
01:43:30,159 --> 01:43:33,039
movie that we talk about for an
episode. That's pretty cool. If you

1233
01:43:33,039 --> 01:43:36,000
would like to support us for free, the best way to do that is

1234
01:43:36,079 --> 01:43:41,000
to give us a review and to
hopefully give us a five star review and

1235
01:43:41,159 --> 01:43:44,159
send us a nice little message in
that that we will read to each other

1236
01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:46,439
and find a lot of warmth in
our hearts about Thank you for listening.