Hey, I'm good inning all and welcome to another space with me calu Aja.
Of course, we call it our money space, and on the space,
we are talking money, the economy and finance, and we try to
make it personal to you. How do the topics of the week, those
big money topics affect your wallet personally. That's what we want to talk about
right this week, we are talking in general about Nigeria's fiscal issues i et.
Tax, budget issues, and we're asking a very very simple question.
Does Nigeria have an endings problem i e. Revenues flowing into the country are
not enough? Or does Nigeria have a spending problem i e. We get
the revenues, but it's been wasted through you know, wasteful spending. I
want to talk about today. Of course, that's a topic that's gonna take
us into many areas, into how the government is set up, into how
the states and the local governments get funds and how they are spent and how
they're all tied back into a general plan. So a very simple question,
forever wide topic here for us to discuss. As usual. I to give
like an intro with the fact that the numbers and of course you guys can
all hop in if you want to speak, request to speak, or send
a DM or grab it and then you can have your take. I just
sheard a tweet, so that's going to be my last tweet just before this
space started, and I'm reviewing the Nigeria's income statement in financial year twenty twenty
three. So just that tweet alone sort of encapsulates all we want to talk
about in this space. Just take a look at that last tweet. It's
literally there. It startled Nigeria's Income Statement financial Year twenty twenty three. I'm
going to read it rather slowly just so that we understand and we take in
the point I'm making. And these figures are all from the Federal Government of
Nigeria. All these figures it's published online the Budget Office, Federal Government of
Nigeria. Number one, Nigeria's oil revenues cannot cover the cost of salaries of
MDAs. Again just salaries. We're not talking about allowances, what about pensions,
Just the salaries. So all the oil you see, all the Dangote
refinery, Shell eggz On oil and gas, every infrastructure you see in Nigeria,
in Portaco, Delta, a Quaibum, all the revenues from those assets
cannot pay the salaries salaries alone of mds in Nigeria. Salaries alone. We're
not talking about pensions or servis, white votes, just salaries alone. And
the receipts are then the tweets. I've posted the budget nombers so you can
look at it. Receipts are all there. Number two Nigeria's total revenue.
So now we're talking about the oil and gas, What about coco? What's
on about the fines that MTM pays everything Nigeria makes. Everything that you has
earned for financial year twenty twenty three cannot cover debt service, not the loan
we've borrowed. I think we're in about one hundred and one trillion or something
crazy like that to service that debt Nigeria has borrowed. All the revenues.
If you take every revenue from oil, gas, cock Cowpe finds electronic money
payments, every revenue Ninjera has earned cannot cover the debt service that Nigeria is
paying for financial year twenty to twenty three. Second Tata point ten Thatta point
the interest the Federal Government of Nigeria paid to the Central Bank of Nigeria.
For borrowing under the now discarded ways to ways and means is three times what
Nigeria and from V. Eighty. So let's go back again. Nigeria's largest
largest enning source, even if you include crude oil, is from taxes corporate
income taxes then V. Eighty. So what we're saying here is that what
Nigeria, the Federal Government of Nigeria paid to the Central Bank of Nigeria as
interest for borrowing from the Central Bank of Nigeria seventy twenty three trillion Mira,
is three times the amount of money that was earned from that to the Federal
Government of Nigeria. How I mean, these are crazy. If they are
not there, we will argue this was real and of course sec and zero
for the Federal Government of Nigeria in the whole of twenty twenty three. So
all the noise, all the run around you sees is doing when they are
red knights cute jackets, they contributed absolutely zero to the Federal Government's budget or
revenues in twenty twenty three. Again, figures from the Federal Government of Nigeria's
Budget Office have posted it online. The receipts are there so you can see
it. It's not my handwriting, it's literally there. How do you have
a country that the total revenues, I mean, America is borrowing a trillion
dollars every one hundred days. So if you say one hundred days, America
bullows borrows one trillion. But America is paying their paying back at four percent,
but they're still paying back. Nigeria's case, Nigeria's total revenues, everything
we earn. We can service the debt from the total revenues, even the
crude oil and gas that is worth supposed to be the largest exporter of crude
oil in Africa. Right, we can't pay salaries of just salaries, not
debt, not fixed roads. Forget about fixing roads or or something. I'm
about salaries alone, not not like allowances, not like training, just salaries
alone. What kind of countries? What does it look like a serious country
to you? Let's look at the nationals snouts sound of pick a national semi.
Particularly of all the budgets in Nigeria, there is only one budget that
is not broken down line by line. The President's budet is broken down.
The Defense Intelligence Agency, our own version of the CIA, the FBI,
the n s A all these secretive institutions. If you go online, you
can see their budgets broken down line by line. The NSAS budget, Nationalistic
Advisors budget is broken down line by line. The President's budget is broken down
line by line. Many states governors they break their budget down line by line.
The only institution in the whole of Nigeria whose budget is not broken down
line by line is the National Assembly of Nigeria. They simply give you a
figure and that figure should be a figure. Three is a nine billion?
End of story, go to town. That's it. They don't break it
down. Why don't they break it down because that's where they put all the
waste that they spend money on. National Assembly had five billion for a library
or so last year. Waste the library. All these cars they import,
the SUV is the import. It's in that non broken down budget. All
the quotes unquote, tokens and pray as they get, it's in that budget.
So go back to our question, is the problem with that twenty three
budgets I just read? I just read that now is it a question of
that Nigeria is not ending enough that the total revenues from crude oil and gas
can only pay salad, they can only cover salaries or is it that the
salaries are too much if you citicize are too much. Remember that the minimum
wage of Nigeria is still thirty thousand naira even though yes, oil and gas
workers and more, but still the minimum where the baseline is still thirty thousand
naira. And we are saying that when we export crude oil at eighty dollars
a barrel ninety a barrel, when we sell gas from Nigerla financial gas and
we get the dividends when we export cocoa, when we find empty and empty
and pills in dollars, whatever we do in Nigeria as a country, the
total revenues from Nigeria cannot pay the salaries off the Federal MDA workers alone.
There's the problem, guys. It's no longer a mass question and it's a
problem of the structure. I argued that the issue is wasteful spending, not
the revenues. We know everybody in these revenues. We know there is no
nation on earth that has revenues to spend at will. But in Nigeria's case,
they relate to we get we have blown it into we just spend and
it's not just the spending guys. Let's get the structure right. When oil
prices go up, Nigeria increases salaries. We did this with the Udoju report.
We've done this with win more wage increases. When we had the golf
war, increase golf war revenues, we increase salaries, we increase expenditures.
But the income of Nigeria is tied to crude oil and crude oil revenues are
variable. So when could oil revenues go back down? Nigeria does not reduce
her budgets and her salaries back down, so the baseline is always high in
Nigeria. Exact same thing has happened today. We want to increase minimum with
Nigeria from thirty thousand, so accurding to label four hundred and fifty thousand.
That means that if label gets untyre ThReD thousand, they might not get it,
might maybe get something lower than that. That becomes the baseline. But
we're making this baseline because corude oil is at eighty. What happens when colde
goes to fifty? What happens we see have to pay a wage bill based
on the crude oil of one hundred and twenty five or whatever it is that
label has negotiated. You see the problem. We have never in Niger's history
cut down costs of salaries. We've only had one austerity budget and we called
it SAP. If it's in Nigeria's sap it elicits huge negative connotations because Nigerians,
instead of fixing the problem, want to spend more to fix the problem,
to bother up the problem. Look at the federal government's response to the
economic crisis that's going on today. They want to spend more. They want
to spend about two trillion. My cl collision, I'm going to spend nearly
four trillion. They're going to borrow. This is not the budget too,
this is the more they're going to borrow extra to spend on things like giving
money quote unquote wink wink to the poor. They're going to buy CNNG bosses.
Had If I hear CNG bosses one more time, one more time,
If I hear anybody saying CNG bosses, just one more time, we're gonna
buy those things again. You know. So there is no rhyme, there's
no strategy. It's just, oh, the people are complaining, let's give
one to the poor. Let's buy bosses. Let's let's do farming. Remember
we're going on to farming. I saw the first lady. I comment her
with her guardian farm. She was wearing gloves to farm. I command her.
Fine, I have no issues with that, but Nigeria needs me.
Let's let's leave that. So dot my rant. I've given you numbers,
giving your figures. Like I said, just go to the last treet I
did before the space started. It's right there. I didn't purpose, so
you're gonna have to search for it. You see a total breakout of Nigeria's
twenty twenty three ACTU oil budget. If you look at the projections, they
are a joke. Oh, before I forget, Nigeria says they want to
get to two million barrels of crude oil a day in twelve months, so
by this time next year, we'll have two million barrels a day. That
just tells you that this is a joke to the guys we're in the economy
with all sense of responsibility, Nigeria cannot get to two million barrels at the
crude oil just like Chelsea Football Club can now win Champions League last year.
It's just not possible. Have you seen the oil experts figures? You have
gone from two point two million barrels in two thousand and five. That's when
your country was booming. That's when you had reversed Jack Bart, when you
had people coming from the UN and the World Bank to work in Nigeria,
When you had people coming back to Nigeria. Your oil price was about sixty
seventy and you had sixty billion in your point reserves. There was no speculation.
How can you speculate when there's sixty billion in the CBN to defend then
ir because you had two million, two point two million barrels a day export.
That export number today is about one point four one point five. Our
own budget, Nigeria's own budget is one point seven. We haven't met it.
Opek give us the target of one point five. We haven't, so,
Opek says Nigeria, you can't export one point seven which is in your
budget. We want you to only export one point five. We haven't met
the OPEC one point five, but we want to miraculously in twelve months increase
that one point four to two million baros a day. Because they know that
nobody will challenge them and people will praise them online. So it just tells
you the level of who you're dealing with. Put just true figures out there,
because we are are companying rice is expensive. Oh, just true figure
out. They just do a plan. They qull it the ASAF plan.
So, guys, if you haven't noticed, we have a problem. My
fifteen minutes is up with means in my time to get out of the way
and let the real owners of time. Jia. You guys listening speak,
I'm harding to talk about Kenya and we're going to talk about this. Samar
agreements sometimes, but for now, let's deal with the issue that we have
a spending problem or revenue. Like I said, it's a very simple question,
but you don't tail in too many things. First to speak, I
got Oak, then I got after it. Bill. Here, mister Oak,
what's going on, sir? What's your take? Do you agree?
Where do you stand? Do you have a spending or do you have a
revenue problem? You've seen my numbers, I've given you received. What's your
take? Answer? Good? Everyone? Yes, I can go for it.
Yeah. I don't want to be rude, but Nanja is a joke
of your country, your political class. Kay, are taking us for a
right. There's no checks, there's no balances on what they're doing. It's
sure, it's osure that we have a spending problem. When you're talking about
the further, you're also put in the status as swell the elephants project,
the airports that are necessary, that the directing left, right and center,
the aids. We all know what they're doing. But how can the country
grow? In fact, I usually say that we don't have a purpose as
as a people if the policular class can look backward and look what the the
the our fur father has fought for the escess of gaining independence. I think
with the theaters from that angle, we are actually seen individual glow. Agree.
We don't know how propose on the community of Let me ask you a
question. How don't have to tell me you exactly, but how old?
What? What band are you? Twenty twenty five, forty five to fifty?
What band? Would you say? Your ages? That's my lad?
Did you have you voted in Nigeria before? Yes? How many times?
Twice? Twice? So would you vote the next time? Just just curiosity?
Do you think your voting had an impact? Would you vote next election?
I mean, irrespect of who's running. I'm done. I'm done with
voting in Nigeria. Why I'm done there is why I'm done, because we're
seeing how the the political class have hijacked all the institutions that're supposed to work
for everyone. We say that it was what happened. The last lection was
a joke. I hear you. But how else do you think you can
change the country if just a joke, if the project have debated on track,
what's your idea? How would you change something your local government? How
do you change your local government? We need we need to go back to
the blueprint. We need to go back to regional government. That's my home
take. We need to shift away power, take it away so much from
the center and give it back to the people. Let us go back to
the way we were were. Those are too far from the grassroots. Let
us go back the way we were and let us get it right from there.
Got your good points, I hear you, go back to regional You're
not really happy with the politics of the country. I want to take it
back to a more You want to get governors that is nearer to you.
I hear you. Every well, you had the young man he's thirty,
he has bought there twice. He's done with elections, but he wants to
have this new regional framework to get governance back home. Every boy, what's
your take on this? Oh? Thank you, appreciate you, sir.
I think we got the floor. Hi kind of can you hear yes?
Second? Yeah, I was. I was just laughing when you were fifteen
minutes because he touched most of the points. Let's take it off, most
of the bags you got up there. It's a sept a question. As
he said, we've always had a spending problem. I cand of recall atleas
in the last twenty years where we didn't have a spending problem, but our
revenues were enough to upset that. Our revenues were safety net in a way
for politicians in discretion. They never really had to have fisical discipline because if
you waste money this month, yeah, you said, you have the ex
amount of brilliance coming interesting point, Yeah, you have excess funds. This
is that is the that was the reality for the last for the last eight
years, the last twenty years before that. Now a lot of these politicians
now the same class of politicians then, And I don't think mentally they've made
the adjustment. Well, obviously they haven't made the adjustment because how we are
not deep into austerity measures now. I'm not sure it should be I should
I should have started austerity measures. We have the governments of web looks even
for democratic system of governments of weblooks. You have too many ministries, diministries,
have too many prior statis, they have too many programs. I don't
know what to sidetrack and get into this. Giveaways and I call them giveaways.
These are giving money to the board. Nobody's tracking this. I've never
seen I've never even seen a follow up. Yeah, it's waste, waste.
You give, you give cash to you give you. You know what
happens in that when you have political pressure in the part of the country.
You se you're giving money to the poor, you give it to the politicians
there the potions keep quiet. That's how you buy silence. So we took
five hundred million dollar loan from the World Bank to institute a cash this once
supposed to the poor. Unless very very clear, I support that policy.
It's worked in Brazil. It's not the cash given as a problem. It's
that the money doesn't get to the poor people in Nigeria. That money is
stolen. You know you how it's stolen, and that's why I sometimes you
fold the World Bank. This money is not giving away with biometrics, and
you just kept quiet. Now we have five million while going to pay back.
You and I were paid back. The poor didn't get the money.
The money is probably in Dubai and London right now. So yeah, exactly,
But even that I could even add to your point. It does affect
when you give money out. You can't treat economics as a system. There
is an inflationary pressure when you pump one into the system, whether you're giving
it out or your wistnesses project. That doesn't mean it doesn't have an impact
for the goal of it, but there is a slight it's an inefficiency.
If you have to be handing out money, well we're not an all time
country. If you have to have money to the poor like chunks, there's
a bigger there's a bigger problem, much bigger problem. But get so we've
always had They don't have a media. They don't they haven't media adjustment.
If you look at I think I saw maybe you've seen this as well.
The budgets of the Chief of Staff office in the last ten years, literally
going from millions to billions. The chief of Staff is gnified executive assistant to
the President. It doesn't do, it doesn't do, It doesn't have any
function outside as a work. But you have a budget matching some part of
staff. I mean, if you want, if you want to play that
game, look at the National Assembly budget is larger? That is it twenty
two states? Twenty two states? Or is it eighteen states? In masch
know as smily budget, it's larger. I think it's eighteen or twenty two
states in the federation. How is that even possible? How is that possible?
The federal government, the National As Center, how many are they?
They have a budget larger than eighteen or let's just go with eighteen? By
it, by that the eighteen states if you call if you call it,
they made the case. I think a company many years back, I don't
remember how that you know they have to increase their salaries to reduce corruption.
Is that a joke? But that was a formal statement. But I think
we can find it a formal statement. I mean, if you take away
the National Assembly today, if you took them away today the GP of Nigeria
will go up and we wouldn't miss them. They have no purpose in Nigeria.
I'm talking about the House and the Senates apart from passing the laws.
I get it. They're not providing the check and balance, they don't providing
oversight. They are simply spending money. We don't need them at all.
Function what they've done, what they done lost even say some of the lost
suggestions, they're not They're not doing anything at least they clearly. I mean,
we have how long did we spend talking about the national anthem to the
line in the state of emergency? When it comes to our finances, we
have four Nigeria has got four budgets concurrently running four budgets twenty twenty three budgets,
twenty three suplementary, twenty four budget, twenty fourth supplementary. Then we're
still going to start the twenty twenty five budget process. So you might have
four budgets and one in progress. Why not simply collapse all four into one
new austerity budget and start all over again. Why do you need four budgets?
I tell you why because the money that is that that is tied to
approa one budget. If you collapse it, they lose that budget. That's
why they don't collapse it. Who's who? Whose house or company here on
this space runs four budgets? You have you say, oh my, I
want to spen money, but it's on year twenty twenty five budget. Let
me let me leave that. Who's who does that? You always have one
budget. But if you're a politician and you have you your mind to smuggle
in some spending into your budget, and it's in twenty twenty three budgets and
it's not being done, of course, you vote that it extended so the
money can come out and you get your money out. That's why they're doing
it. It has don't do it. It doesn't make any sense. There's
no country on earth that has even one or two budgets. China does ten
year, US does two years. You've got to sit on a plan.
How do you plan with four budgets? So, oh, oh, twenty
three budges. It was inflicted in twenty twenty three, was inflicting twenty four.
Everything is gone out of the window. Four budgets. There's no there's
noa each year. The budgets is disconnected from reality, especially economic reality.
Even more, and then they get even more ambitious with the with the metrics
over how many bottles of oil we expect, definition numbers we expect those.
Those keep going down and the expectations keep going up. And I'm not sure
why they're not making that adjustment two million going to two million abouts per day
in the time frame they suggested. It hasn't even been done, and it's
an insult. But I hear. I mean, like you said, Nigeria
has a baseline. We haven't adjusted. The people have adjusted people, are
you seeable but doing sachees, spending one on one or even eating one the
population taxpayers have adjusted, but the politicians have not adjusted to keep at all.
Gotcha, Ken? Thanks to people. Can what's up? Man?
Yeah? Thank you for the opportunity living in calum believing in everyone to be
honest. I would like to say that after watching the video today from the
first lady, I just flashed back and I remembered the military error when the
same message was being propagated telling people to plants in their in their backyards and
feed themselves, and that was the Nigeria. Then you know that Languia where
where where you could find pure water? The truth of the matter is that
one of the one of the one of the efforts that helped to reduce colora
cases in Nigeria was the introduction of pure Sasha water the more we called pure
water. So Nigeria moved from pure water pure that was basically water from tap
directly into an ireland and then they sell on the street for one are back
then that was that was that was that was pure water then, but or
rather they call it ice water, Yes, I remember they call the coll
it ice water back then. Then, having pure water helped to kind of
show that households had some I would say sanitized water, you know, portable
water for people to be able to drink people who don't have access to you
know, water bought by burn water in their house. That's that was that
was the substitude. But right now do you know that Calu, Nigeria has
gone back to the age of ice water. People are now selling icewater on
the street because pureat is now expensive. And then you ask yourself, how
did cholera come back? All of it so out of nowhere? When have
you heard in the last ten twenty years that one hundred Nigerians died as a
result of cholera within a very short period of time. All of these things
are adding up. All of this they adn't know, But I would like
to bring decades of Argentina. You know, you've been flu in Argentina very
well, and the kind of inflation they've been dealing with before the new administration
came. This new admistration that came, they did four or five things,
which includes some fiscal measures and the monitary measures. In Nigeria, we have
done the monitoring measure. We've seen frantic efforts from the siblent coming, you
know, issuing circular on a daily almost on a daily basis to sanitize the
moneyitory side. But on the physical side, if you sit down with our
politicians and you tell them that they need to cut course. If an economist,
if there's been a professional and knowledge in that space, they will throw
you out of the room. They will tell you that you don't know what
you're saying. How can we reduce costs? And it typic an Anglian politician,
they don't understand that a country like Nigeria can be broken. They don't
get it. They don't believe when you say that we can no longer print
money or we can no longer borrow. It doesn't make sense to them.
For them, they will continue to spend and they will continue to borrow.
If they cannot find the money anywhere, they will borrow, they will manufacture.
They will do whatever they need to do to do that. And Argentina
right now they've reduced an inflation from one hundred and fifty to as at me
what they have they have target to get it down more and Calu what they
did. What he did that was significant was on the physical side, which
include cuting costs of governor's bars more than seventy percent, including using salaries of
government officials. That was what he did in Argentina. But can you do
that in Anglia? Can and any politician think of doing something like that and
it's going to be successful? I don't think so we need to. Yeah,
Boharry had the political capital to do it, to change the jerior fundamentally,
he could have done anything he wanted and survived politically. He didn't do
it, and maybe he maybe when he felt sick he came back and to
completely lost his way. That was the last guy I think that could have
done something like that and still won re election you know, to scrap all
this waste and all that, and you make the point, you know,
I don't know how it works. You know, the the Cardoso and while
I do are Boat are both quote and I'm not trying to be disrespect to
They air boat ten noble boys. They work with mister Tenobu, so they
have their own kitchen cabinet they meet. Now. They are both quotes and
quote economy, so they understand money money flow. So on one line,
you have mister Cardoso increasing own a tip policy rates because there's too much cash
in circulation. On the other hand, same government, you have mister waller
Do increasing money supply in the economy by passing this new two trillion asap policies,
by spend all this money. So Cibian is increasing rates because cards,
because Wile I Do is increasing spending all under the same government who is paying
for this taxes the people of Nigeria. So why not come and say we
can't fight inflation because inflation is driven by food, So why not just reduce
the interest rates. Let's drop the inflation, but let people be able to
feed. Open the borders, get food. In Argentina opened the borders,
they caught spending. There's a lot of pain and they're not finding it easy.
People are softing Argentina, but the man is saying, you've got to
suffer today, so aftermorrow things get better. Were also the money in flying
commercial went on to see his girlfriend. That video in Nigeria. Go back
to the comments on that Nigeria. You see people defending Oh it's yeah,
it's a stunt, but you've got to show the perception that you understand the
mood of the room. In Nigeria. The president's planes are bad, and
I get it, for security reasons he has to fly private. I get
it, But read the room. Why not read the room and say,
okay, even if we're going to buy a jet, maybe not now,
but it's almost like once it's the president's then we must, we must spend
up with that. Once it's presidency or any to do with foreign airlines.
Nigeria has money. Once it is assu or anything to do, it's spending
off a structure. We don't have money. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I mean I mean you've you've okay, go ahead and just
let spoken Okay, Okay, No, I mean you've you've you've captured it
excellently. Well, I mean, I don't I don't understand. I've said
it to one of your space spaces. That Andian government officials right now,
the most speciality letter ones they should be a minimum wage as issue of seriousness,
that we are really committed to the minimum wage. Back to can,
there are many can the minimum wage, Well, it depends on what you
define as minimum, because they keep complaining that even the ones they are collecting
is not enough. That's what they're saying that it depends on what you define
as minimum. At the end, if you pull up the salary of it
Nigerian senator, he ends less than a Nigerian bank manager. The problem is
this allowances that they get satory salaries and allowances, most especially that the black
box, the black box of the National Assembly members most especially. That's that's
where the issue is. Nobody knows what is happening in there in their space.
They do whatever they like. They have the power of appropriation. Because
of that, they use it to their to their advantage. And and and
I mean it's quite it's quite. It's quite unfortunate. You talk about flying
commercial flying commercial link, why YU back then in Singapore did the same thing.
He was doing the same thing, not to appear like their rich country.
Meanwhile, they were a poor country. But he needed help from the
rest of the world, and because of that he abandoned his private jet and
flew commercial. For goodness sake, you want to save the country, they
told us. In fact, the wife said, the president's wife said to
Nigeria's that they don't need Nangelia's money. But for goodness, why why is
there projects for the first for the first lady? Why why is there an
office for the first lady? Look at what has happened in Kenya to the
point that if the project of the first day that that's that, that is
not if we needed at all. We have this problem, not a revenue
problem problem. We need to change that culture. It is key. Let's
have take slow down, let him finish, then you can speak. Let's
slow down, Ken, thanks for the submission. Is Naja has a spending
problem? I got you all me just just don't worry when you speak.
That's why you're already added. So you speak. That's want to take put.
I have joined it earlier than you a lect you to speak. Just
hanging there, yeah, olimity high doing Ken, Thank you Olimita. Hi,
are you with us today? Yeah? Yeah, great. I mean
I find your comments where you you are attached the capital markets to Nigeria's day
to day spending. I find it very very refreshing. What's your take really
on this topic? We all know we want, we need more revenues,
but the excess spending is just mind blowing that a country that does that cannot
pay salaries. It's contemplating buying new private jet has already built twenty one billion,
marshals for the VP, is buying SUVs for the first lady of the
first lady. It's it's just a tone death, let them eat cake kind
of administration. What's your take on this? First of all, you know,
I've been wing for a while, and you know that I've written so
much on this part that I get tired about it. I think, you
know, I know the narrative and I know where you stand that I know
the CONCERNSS. We definitely have a big spending problem and it's so bad that
it has created in depleted revenue structure and in niger economy. You know,
I was just looking at the numbers and I spoke with different policymakers on why
revenue endemic. And the answer is that simply because the structure of the economy
is not efficient. You know, we often have been shouting why is revenue
this low? Why is the level of competence and accountability? I just want
to make a little anatomic structure so that people can understand. You know,
the body is so structured that a lot of people think they had produces the
blood. But blood is producing the boom marrow. And if you understand what
they had does simply just osciliate and distribute around the body. And you know,
when you look at that, you put it in the context of the
CBN, When you put the boom, Mary, put in the context of
the NMPC. Now when you put the brain and put it in the context
of the presidency. Now, the problem we're having is that the most functional
set up in our economy is the CBN. The physical side, there's nothing
to say about that. Now. The MPC side. Why it gets miscarried,
cal is that if you look at this year, you know, I
remember I came to this space, and I remember decident when you are lighted
that as long as we don't fix our other experts now keep that, are
you really right? But then what we were looking at was that the CBN,
with the aggressive approach towards bringing liquidity in form of elevating in a strates,
do it also include the cost of the cost of girth and everything give
us some lifeline. But what we've been able to see is that the fiscal
side has been unable to bring that to light. And you know, if
we break it down, the still much more comforable from EFTs, importation,
to invest the culture and educates. I think, no, you don't have
you don't have the floor. Please hold on somebody speaking, please go ahead
on them there. Yeah, So I think in retrospect to you, I
think it's the doing that the Nigerian economy is in a big mess. And
what gets mess scared is that you know, when I look at the outook
from United edition that by the end of this decade it's two million, it's
a two millionaire, you will be hungry. And you look at a number
of kids out of school. You don't need to be an economics or an
analysis to say that it feels state system syndrome is already in play. And
you know, for me, that is an active captol market and including you,
you could see that it retails on the look because we have investments in
this country and the way things are wrong, no no, no, no
businesses wrong like that. When you have his states where the number of new
cars are much more than number of educational projects, when you have like the
National Assembly for example, this is the administration has come to power. I'm
not seen any and a strong framework that has really helped the Nigerian economy from
the other sector, to the educational sector to the secure sect. So Calu,
it's really a deep, deep and it's getting really worrisome because I don't
know what else someone has to do. We've don't the flexible approach. We
don't the town cried approach. We don't the aggressive approach. We don't written
approach. We don't ever approach. You know. Let's let's let me read
just what someone's sent the DM now. So one says Calu, Nigeria's are
not yet suffering, that Najers are going through hard times, but they are
not yet suffering. That when Nigeria's start to suffer, they will I don't
read what he said that, but he's saying, I just am not yet
suffering. We're just going through hard times. What's your take. I think
I think the guy I think the guy is in. I think it's been
extreme amore is joking either of the two because I don't know what it means
better. I think it's just trying to make it look like you really the
issues that it's not that Nigers are not fortunated. You need to understand the
cultural and the social economic characteris of the Nigera people. If you look at
the middle class, for example, you see the middle class for example,
is dewell into two. We are middle class, privileged middle class. Some
people that come from you know, from the political family or the civil servants
that they have been able to go abroad. I see many of them on
Twitter talking about gender, talking about this, talking about the certain people.
They're not hungry people. They're not hungry people. Now, these are people.
So when I try to do this, when I want to write stories
or when I want to go deepend the said, I speak with people that
go down to the villages and people are crying cald You know, there are
some households that have not seen fifty thousand name months in this country. So
you can't really look at that optics and say pay people. But Another issue
is that because of the penetration of technology offra structure money point data the NBAS
did that showed that penetration in the area is still very low, so we
don't really get the true picture. But the rites that calor people are hungry,
you know. Edation also said that about sixty five percent of we have
with Niageral project is spent on food. When in an European city where I
am, I spent less than seven eight percent calor and I asked to complain
seven to eight percent of my project goes on food a month? What really
take a chump my house, abius. But when you have a nigiastic experience
of the five percent on food the loan, how does that person invest?
How does that person improve his kiss life? How does that person imput the
Nigerian economy? How does that person become productive? You know? And my
fear is that you know, I've always called the eye food index because it
makes the aggressive noticed to Diana, did that the younger it becomes, the
more basically is if it gets another thousand business points, Carl, I think,
hey, we might not be able to have this conversation in this ent
environment. Show him there okay, thanks hanging there. Thanks for that insight.
Let me get a liar yar me or liar me. You've got the
floor, Olim. The appreciate you. Than I might have a question for
you again, you've got the floor. Go ahead, are me let's get
ka or basa PhD kassa? How you doing? Okay or bassa? How
are you doing? Sir? Yes? Can you hear me? I can
hear you? Please go ahead? Okay, Yeah, I think the question
is very uptent, is very timely. But I think that to make it
reflect the current status for Nigeria's expiracy thing, Najeria is not having a spending
problem. We're actually having a humongo spending problem. Now. I do not
object tout describe it as because in a system where you have this spending,
uncontrolled spending, spending situation where there is lack of accountability, and you know
that there's a bigger problem than the problem of itself. Now, insteader of
a Naguria as a project, for every item you spend there should be a
visible deliverable. I mean we've had budgets, and budgets are being implemented.
Money is being allocated to several quarters and different areas. But at the end
of the day, do we really see these deliverables? Is somebody somewhere accounting
for this expenses? And if there is nobody accounting for these expenses and nobody
to hould anybody responsible, And the problem is bigger than we ever think it
is. I work in the project a program development sector. For every allocation
that is being needed, it is being strutilized. Now, the executives send
the budget to the National Assembly and then you look at the review process.
It's just like the stamped and then everything goes. Nobody takes time to actually
scrutinize every item that is contained in the project. And then at the end
of the day, let's look at the monitoring process for every project. It
should be monitored from inception up the concusion for every item captured in the project
to be implemented. Talk about capital project, do we see them being implemented?
Monitored? And then we get deliverables disciple deliverables. We don't see that
happening. And so you see the cycle of recurrent spending that is uncontrollable or
accounted for, going on over and over again. Now the question is what
do we do. I had the first speaker who was the close O Caul.
After you saw me, you made your solvation. That is done vote
And then I looked at the chart and the response to somebody said that is
actually where they want to get you. And that's true, that's what the
way they want to get you because in the system where you don't have accountability,
everybody they just want to get to explited, exhausted, and then you
become hopeless. Oh I did so very much the last time. I hoping
that I'm going to get the best results. Now I'm getting nothing, So
why would I invest that again? But we ask you to have a duty
to really continue to stand up and keep looking at every gathering, at every
forum to make sure that there's people here. Maybe some day we are going
to get the results with this, but for now, and I think they
damage that Nigeria and Nigerians are experiencing from the hands of our leaders is big.
It's a real problem that most be tackled. Our instlutions are not working.
I mean, tell me which of the institution is working, I mean
working to reflect these statues for which it was set to reflect. No,
and so you know, to have that better spending problem and I don't know.
I'm sorry, I'm not being pessimistic, but I don't know if there
is any end insight. I don't know if there is any insight to the
current status or the current level of uncompretable and unaccountable expenditure that we are experiencing
in the country. I mean there is, I mean, I mean,
I hear you. I just want to make the point again that just to
make it shure, don't I don't lose my chune of thought on that point.
You just highlighted why I asked that guy about the voting was. I
just had a sense that he was he was, he was done, And
I will just confirm whatever you do, don't stop voting, don't stop being
involved in the quote unquote politics, especially the local politics states, local governments,
the states, the counselors. Absolutely don't ever stop because some distans are
done to make you lose hope. When you lose hope, that's when braggarts.
That's when the unelectables get into office, and there was the office hard
to get them off. So please don't so there is there isn't. The
reason I haven't highlighted that that young man's position was because he is not the
only one that is in that particular position. He is not the only one
that has had its field up to that level. So we all haveself that
duty. I mean, I've had discussions, I mean after the elections,
I've had discussions with a couple of presences in these small gatheries. And then
there will sits the past election. With all the efforts you're put in the
last election, look at the mess with God. Why would you want to
encourage me or tell me to go and for the gain? And to be
very honest in a way, it is exhausting. They might be right in
their position, but we still duty. Even though I have said I don't
see any any insight to the current I mean the spending problem that we're having,
we still have a duty to continue to push forward to see that certain
rights and certain quoters, I mean, certain wrongs and certain quarters are made
right at the end of the day. I submit at that point, thank
you very much. Appreciate that. Appreciate that. Guys. We want to
make sure we keep the pressure of the way. It sounds like, it
sounds quaint, but we only have a democracy, right, so that's the
really only way you can get in through a democracy. So don't let it
go. Keny, there you've got the floor. Thanks k ken They you've
got the floor. Go ahead, sir mister Kenny. Day a day full
going once? Nag nag three, seven, five, four nine one.
How are you? So you've got the floor. Let's go ahead, Nagy.
Okay, let's get whole Love Valley? Did I get that right?
Hall Love Valley, Hall Love Valley. You've got the floor. Let's go
ahead, Hall of Valley. Really? Oh, how are you doing?
Where are you calling it from? From? How is U show? Is
it the state of usan or ocean state? The state of the State of
Uscean? Okay, go ahead. So I've got the floor to me,
I say, and you both have spending and revenue problem. We can't have
both. We can't have both. In my own theory, I feel this
this is like an intertwined case because believe the revenue that we are generating.
Do you understand, I can't say we are generating a world in my revenue.
The regions are there's a lot of leakages in the remediances of the revenues
that have been generated, and even most of these ministries are not even remitting
it to the to to to the right places. So I feel that aspect,
I would say we have we have a revenue problem now going down to
the is spending part of it. There are a lot of capital projects that
that we are not even supposed to be borrowing for help you understand, can
you okay? So in my own in my own opinion, I feel there
is no way out. Could a country be borrowing, be borrowing to to
to to finance to finance. It's spending. And as an ignom incident,
I feel we are qualified as as an IMF member, right mm hmm,
we are, yeah, And there are some there's there are some certain rules,
there are some boxes that we have to tack to to get some to
get some fronts from from from the I m F. So I'm still wondering,
Ah, we're able to get on this phone, Nigela. It's not
borrowing from the IMF. We haven't borrowed from the MFS. I think the
sing is twenty two two thousand. I think we're not going from that.
I get your points about borrowing. We're mostly borrowing from China bilateral and then
eurobonds is the eurobones one that is a problem because expensive, but in terms
of IMF and the rest, not really a lot. Yeah, okay,
So on the spending aspect, on the spending aspect, on the spending aspect,
what I just feel this? Did you try to cut the cost?
Okay and try to generate more revenue? Let me ask you a question I
don't want to put on the spot, just a question. How what do
you think Nigeria makes federal governments alone? How much do you think they make
in a year. Let's let's pick say twenty three. How much do you
think if someone just give, just just true a figure in the air,
how much do you think Nigerian federal government total revenues? What do you think
it was in a particular yeh three? Just a figure, just your What
do you think? I know the figures are being billions, to be billions,
I can really put a figure to it. It's one trillion, a
lot of money, one trillion mira. It's no, no, no,
no, that's not it. There's not a lot to nasty even the government.
What of five trillion, five trillion, I can't say it's enough to
finance the government? Seven What of seven trillions? It's still not enough?
What about eleven trillion. Oh, I can't put the figuret no, but
I'm saying, do you think eleven trillions enough to finance the federal governments operations
for one year? Eleven trillion? Yes, yes, I think it is
enough. They call the cost. So the revenue of the revenue, of
the revenue of the Federal god of Niger is about eleven trillion, that's what
they're making. Eleven trillion, ten eleven trillion. But still, but you
see the problem. So how much do you think again? Is the total
salaries just salary alone alone? Not, that's not the rule, just salary
alone. What do you think is salary for one year for the federal governments
just salaries alone? The salaries for the federal government alone? Yes, just
not just not storaries alone. Oh that ages how much? How long?
How much do you think? I have to check? It's about four trillion,
four trillion narrow for the salaries alone. Yes, m d is salaries
alone is about three point nine six y five trillion. So the point I'm
making to you is that the eleven trillion we got from the total revenues where
they spending nearly four trillion on only only salaries, were not not roads,
not debts, not pensions, just to pay monthly salary. So is the
question now is that do you think the problem is that we should make that
eleven trillion twenty trillion? Or should we go to the salary people and say,
I think we should reduce your salary? What do you think? Keep
in mind that oil we used, we're now pumping less oil today than we
pumped quote unquote yesterday. So what do you if you are the CEO your
run a company, your income is going down, your salary is going up,
what would be your suggestion to move over? Move for all years?
You have to show the people that okay, this is starting from me,
it is not starting from you. Good just like what just like what the
president did? Yeah, so good things like that, even even the things
that the salary. And as we see, although there will be some wrong
boots, there will be some actions that will go after it, but with
when they see that, Okay, the president that brought out this policy or
the ministries they are really they are they are really doing it to themselves.
So it was really hard on the people to turn the newly and follow the
new policy that has been perfect answers. I think you got it right.
So you you, you in five minutes have diagnosed the problem that the problem
is not just the revenues, is the spending. And according to you,
we should go ahead and lead by example on spending. You're just on spending.
So you did it in like five minutes. You did it in five
minutes. You don't have you have no aid, you have no power point.
You just summarized it. So thank you for that. I appreciate you
doing that. Thank you, sir aling me. Thanks, I called you.
I think you were not online. I know if you can speak now,
sir, yeah, thank you very much. Yeses, So let me
start by apologizing for interjecting earlier problem. How this worked. I thought you
had called me, so it wasn't intentional, So apologist to everyone. It's
really very insightful conversation and I've enjoyed a little bit of it. I've heard
the arguments from both sides of the divide and have to confess a very compelling
but my personal opinion is this, I think even though Ndinia has this spending
problem, I think we have a much bigger revenue problem. And demonstrate this.
Nigeria correctly has a population of around two hundred million people, and as
at the last project, the estimated revenues of the federal government is around ten
trillion Nira. If I divide ten trillion by two hundred million, I get
fifty thousand NRA. What does this mean? It means the federal government has
just fifty thousand narra to spend on every Nigeria for a whole year. Okay,
can I can? I? Can? I? Can? I interject
at that point, and when I finished the chaninnel thoughts, then give you
a time to respond. If you don't mind, do you mind not?
Please go ahead? All right, thank you. I'm not an economist,
form an accountant. I'm a CPA, I'm an SCA. I'm also in
a jemmy, right, so I have about four designations. Understand accounts and
understand revenues, understand and expenditure, understand budgeted. Right now, let's just
oppost this with a country like Canada. I currently live in Canada. Canada
has an estimated population of forty million people. If I take the revenue of
the federal government of Canada and I divided better forty million individuals, it comes
to around ten million ERA per person per year. So clearly even to the
blind, it's clear that we have a huge revenue problem and we need to
solve that. It's also important for us to solve the expenditure problem, the
spending problem, but I think a more critical and orgaged problem is the revenue
problem. It's like a family earning five thousand error per month and you are
telling them cost, cut cost, what are they going to cost, what
are they going to cost? Two fee for a week? We probably take
five thousand error. So even if the court ondred percent of their posts,
they're still going to be in poverty. They're still going to be lived in
penury. And that's the situation Nigeria is in right now. And also,
if you cut course, if you cat, you contract Nigeria the kind of
economy we run. In your opinion, if you court governments spending too quickly,
you might have an economy that will contract significantly because most of the economic
activities in the country is center around the government. So for me, I
think it's very good that you have discussions like this, but when the kind
of conversation we should be having is helping the government find out how they can
expand their revenue based increase the revenue generating activities, and I think once we
have that, we can start talking about plugging the gaps, plugging the leaks,
and that will help. And that's my opinion. Thank you very much.
Don't go anywhere. I think you make a very very valid point that
Listen, if you simply take the revenues of the federal government divided by the
population, you get that number there, but a few points. Number one,
the ten tune is only for the federal government in Nigeria, the states
and the local governments and more. Federal government gets about forty eight or forty
two states and local government gets more verf fac. So if we take one
hundred Nira, states and local governments get more than the federal so that fifty
would have to add what the state government and the local governments are spending per
Nigeria to get an accurate number. But again I'm gonna counter to say that.
Listen, you compared federal federal with Nigeria and Canada, so at that
point should not stand. You'll say that, but then let's look at what
Canada is spending money on, which is where we now have the discussion.
What is Canada or even the US spending money on social services. So for
every one hundred that comes to them to America, about twenty three goes to
social security, two in three or maybe goes to health and human services.
Then they have their military, then they have all that. Right. If
you flip the skill for Nigeria, out of giving your figures, out of
every hundred narrow that comes to Nigeria, about forty four nira goes to salaries
of only federal workers. So it's not just the fifty thousands a problem,
it's where who are this fifty It is only going to federal workers. A
person living in Niger States, in Bidder, in a small local government does
not feel the effect of that fifty thousand narra at all, But a person
living in Chananuokua in Canada is going to feel the impact of that ten million.
The point I make is this, if you flipped it and you brought
the ten millionaire, the kinder would end to Nigeria. The ten million would
go to the civil servants in Nigeria, not the guy in the local government
in Nigeria. That's the problem is not the nyra proportion per se, but
where that money is going to, which is the topic. The spending problem
or the revenue problem. If you increase Nigeria's revenue by one trillion dollars today,
can you say on that course of maybe they would. Can you say
on that I don't know. I want to use now that in Nigerian National
Assembly will not buy a private jet for each nationals in the member and build
an airport in the local government areas to allow them do oversight. No Nigerian
can say for a fact that will not happen. In Canada and America,
I can say, for in fact, it will not happen in Nigeria.
I can say for a fact. So let me know what you say.
Thank you very much for your response. It's a very intriguing one and very
interesting one. And I do agree with you that the Western governments, a
good chunk of their spending goes to social services, which is commendable. But
in Nigeria, I think over time we realize that our government is not very
efficient at allocating resources to these social services. So I think indirectly, what
we then do is to thing salaries and it then trickles down to the grass
from people. I think there's something called domino effects and economics. So if
you by any times call the salary payments, some states will collapse. So
for each civil servant you have in Nigeria, you have at least hundred people
depending directly or indirectly on them. So even though in countries like Canada they
have the world structured system, they call it social welfare, they give it
childe benef it's in Nigeria. It is unstructured. It is by pain salary
to as many people as possible so that the money can filter down. So
it's still the same thing. And that brings it back to the main problem,
which is the revenue. We need to increase the revenue at all levels
in Nigeria. We may need to tax more people who need to move away
from just refinding resources or sorry, attracting natural resources and selling. We need
to think together as the people come up with ways of increasing the revenue of
the government. And when that happens, it's got to trickle down and everyone
will feel the effects. But I don't think cutting costs right now it's sensational.
It's interesting. We can't do like that agentinagomy. How much is how
much is the airplane for a new government? If you cut that, what
impact would that have in the economy? Of our size. I'm not saying
I don't encourage extravagant spending on the part of leaders or rulers. I don't
encourage that, But I'm saying we shouldn't spend too much, too much time
chasing after the wrong problem and the instances I give people financial financial advice,
and there are some families I told me, yeah, I lost my revenue,
I lost my source of income, so my next strateage is out.
Of course, I told him that is not your apporentity for now. You
should look for how you can regain your source of income. And that's the
problem with Nigeria. We have lost a good chunk of a source of income.
So the story should not be or the solution should not be right now,
how do we podcast? I think the solution should be, how do
we get back that revenue that we lost and how do we increase it?
That's opinion, Thank you very much. Okay, let me and again just
last one, just to let you go, just last one. So let's
look at the actuals now. So if we if we take your point at
yes, that the I think the word looking for us wasn't imaginal propensity to
consume or to invest so if you pay salaries and say you Bay State or
our airborne in state, these salaries go further because that's the only source of
income in those sense sectors. I get the point you're making completes the correct
The point I'm making again is let's go back to Nigeria and say, okay,
Nigeria has got what we're called the Universal Basic Education where the federal government
puts up a put up money and says if the states want to invest in
education, bring a billion and take a billion from the federal government and then
go build schools. So you bring one mirror, you get one there,
you go build schools. So that's revenue sitting there for you to go take.
If you pull up the UBE allocation in Nigeria, you'll be shocked at
the states that have not taken that UBE revenues. You'll be shocked. And
there's a particularst day. I don't have to mention all the states. I
don't have to get poor accusm of being politic out. The state has not
accessed UBE. But the state is building a federal airport. So the state
is partnering with the federal going to build an airport for private jets, but
has not accessed the UBE funds that are aligned there to build schools for the
people. It goes back again to this point, sir, and this is
the point where we can really escape from that. If we increase the revenues
to the households in Nigeria, they will spend properly. But if we increase
the revenues to the Government of Nigeria, they have not shown the capacity to
spend more. That's the problem. When Nigeria in nineteen seventies, and I
want to get my dates right, I believe in the nineteen seventies when Nijera
had the Young Kiper War and oil prices went up, Nigeria had the point
where Goan was saying, our issue is not money, but where to spend
it. In that period, Sir, Nijer did not increase allocation to education.
They did not. We did not, so I again will have to
be a good agree. I just think the problem, sir is we are
not spending the little we have properly. If we increase revenues today, it
will still be wasted. That's why people don't pay tax in Nigeria because they
don't trust the taxman to take that revenue and to spend it properly. But
I do agree with the point of making and thank you you know, yeah,
you know those two. But just what you said, I think whatever
you wise, I don't talk on a market perspective. What every wise policy
paper would use. That what you use with one go, that is what
you use with THO. If you look at Biblical u for example, one
of the things that relive primas was the allocation of resources. And we went
to see if we want to spend you see the argument like the guy from
par that I say is that we all know we agree revenue problem mentioned and
if I were company that does do poo, I can't give you a hundred,
don't you know? I was looking at don't bas Bloomberg for example,
Boombeg is making more money than the fer governments almost double, almost double.
So the question is that we're not saying we don't have a revenue problem.
But see even Jesus said that the person with one talent that buries his talent,
who was taking away from him and giving to together, had ten talents.
If you cannot make good resources with you, they want talents. Sorry,
where they didn't go up and that is why if you understand investments,
when investors see a management team spending unnecessary despite the fact that they have reserves,
it becomes an issue. Why do you think Apple, Microsoft, Google,
our wants most valuable competed apart from their matches, didn't have to spend
money they save operation? Of course, did we just cost look and Meta
did to have the metal d then shut it that way for losing money.
The problem that you is that we have so many unfunctional projects and the edit
and the children of the adit they don't have time for prob because see look
on are doing in this work are the headline? It should be food inflation,
it should be basic educational. If we're not talking about gender world,
we're talking about someone that is spending twenty thousand on the set talk about people's
weddings. So we have issues. We have cultural issues, we have so
column issues, we have political issues, we have met that issues, we
have spiritual issues. Because if you don't look at things bualistically, you will
not get the picture. Every country. Look at what's happening in Europe.
The right are trying to chase an immigrant away because they're tired of people and
rather than Africa sitting down and we're thinking, like what the Chinese did in
the eighties, they are still playing around. I'm thinking that we buy to
passport by passport, we are getting insured, and we forget that the color
o sking can never change. So we need people that really understand the termine
of the future, are not just bringing out numbers, and that is the
problem. We're being gotcha. I think it's a good discussion contribution than that.
You yes, you go ahead, allow me. I preached the comments
really really do don't you go ahead? Thank you, thank you. I
think that we're missing the elephant in the living room. The problem with Nigeria,
and I say that guardedly, is not so much as the spending problem
or revenue problem. It's an accountability and accounting problem. Accountability in the most
larger sense in which some of yours beakers have expanded. It's not just a
purely financial issue. There's a social political dimension of it to which we don't
want to talk about. And that's the elephant in the living room. You're
talking about. The hard numbers about the school and financial policy of Nigeria does
are just numbers. They mean nothing if you do not deal with the issue
of holding a political and edits accountable. But it couldn't get anywhere because it
doesn't matter how much you put into the pool. The management, the mind
set of the leaders means that we'll just waste it. We cannot revenue because
of the institutional corruption. There is a system. And the thing that I
know, my bidney feeling and just listening to these conversations, and this is
not the first time I've been in this kind of a forum, is that
there's a lot of agency in Nigerian's that always talking about Nigeria seem to be
some other country. Even the comparisons you make are totally unrealistic. Compare Nigeria
to Canada, comparing Nigeria to Meta. It has absolutely the non secretal The
key thing here that is missing is a social contract between the citizen and the
states. The states itself, we know is irresponsible to that extent. Yes,
for you, the citizens, you want all the rights, but you
don't want the attended responsibilities of holding your leaders accountable. You don't want to
have the attendant responsibility of accounting and making sure that people and policies and institutions
are held accountable. But you're making all the analogy between the federal government.
What about this governments you just said we talked about the state. That's not
you know, buying into the university a free university of basic education scheme,
but building an airport. The problem here is the agency of the citizens.
We cannot be demanding rights without the attendant responsibility number one. Number two,
we sho to stop this displacement activity of thinking that somebody is going to come
a solver problems or that we are citizens an arrest for this. So I
could go on and on, but the bottom line for me is that the
challenge here is the misture of the technical, physical financial problem of revenue and
spend expenditure. It is really one of accounting. How do you account for
the health of the nation itself collectively? And accountability? How do you hold
your political leaders accountable? But you can't do that if you do not hold
yourself accountable for them. You said, it's also right, most Nigerians and
I'm Tinnists respectively, do not know the numbers or what you even hold to
account. I know if you were here from the very beginning where I listed
the federal government's income statements actual for twenty twenty three where we said that the
total oil revenues of Nigeria cannot pay salaries, the total revenues of Nigeria cannot
pay debt service. I just asked a young man, now, how much
you're taught were income from Nigeria. He didn't know. I told him the
incomes as well salaries. Did know his is in Nigeria. It's a patriot.
But the point is that if you don't know the numbers or the facts,
then how do you hold people accountable? How many people understand that the
local that their local government areas and how many people know what their local government
makes a month. You're stating a problem that is looking for a solution.
Within this three people who are listening in, there's a collective capacity to be
able to bring o those numbers and create an alternative platform where we know.
You cannot act. You cannot manage what you don't know. It was at
your tenmy management, right. You can't manage what you can't manage what you
can measure? Problem? What are we doing here? What? What?
What? What are we doing here? Tinji? What are we doing here?
What I'm saying? One of my I said, we're having a talk
shop about revenue and all of that. We're talking about a young who does
not know well. Provide the platform so that people can know and make what
we're doing. You listen, I'm not asking you just calm down. I'm
saying we all have a collective responsibility towards knowing right, and you are leading
the chart and we're all following you. Right. I noticed that almost three
hundred people on this platform. Surely even if we take ten percent of that,
that is what's thirty right, can come together for the sake of this
country. We have cps, we have accountants, we have people with masters
in public administration, we have there's a whole body of knowledge just embedded here.
But we're not organizing that knowledge. We're not putting it out there.
Instead, we are complaining the problem with Nigeria. Conversation turning and twelve.
Listen to me. It is a critique and it's a critique of all of
us. I'm not criticizing you. This is a wonderful platform, and you
know, kudos to you. You know I follow you. I see you're
very pithy, very informed and enlightening comments. Right. But what I'm saying
the task is the latter we have to take it to another level. We
have to take it to another level. There's a grand I've been talking to
a friend of mine Doingslami about doing a report on the informal sector of Nigeria.
When we talk about Nigeria and the physical and financial or whatever, we
never factoring the informal sector where most Nigerians and the livelihood from. There's no
reports comprehensively. There's one now by money Point I think, which I saw
the other day. But these are some of the large numbers. Let us
fight facts. I get you, I hear you. I'm not defending myself.
I'm saying I don't want us to go into the to go into borderline
shaming the victim borderline. That's why actually going to for me, it's not
a problem. I'm just saying they are issues, and the one big issue
Nigeria is the lack of information on finances. People say things in Nigeria and
just put it out there. The government just told Nigeria that in twelve months
will have two million bios of crude a day. In twelve months, it's
not going to happen. And they have base spending two trillion naira on achieving
two million bios of crude. It's not going to happen. What means they're
going to borrow to ens all that money that they're going to spend happens.
It's going to come back in a year's time, will have the same space,
and I'll say that has gone up their pool, like, how come
that went up? I'm seeing people saying that five billion dollars is going to
come to Nigeria because Nigeria has a headquarters of an energy bank and people say,
oh, it's wonderful, Tabo is working five billion. These things are
not true. The same way to beyond the year the Sibian was it was
making Nayra stronger by borrowing dollars. What we are trying to do is to
give people and I'm not defending myself. People need to have people who want
to know what to do. If you tell people physical they don't understand what
that means. You've got to break it down then people can take action.
SAP riots was not cast by SAP. If you old ANFSIR, SAP work
was caused by a report that the first Theady had a watch factory in Switzerland.
It wasn't cast by the effect of SAP or people started a satin questions
too much people, that's what people move. So people in Nigeria do not
have conngent information or do not understand the economics of what happened. No connect
taxation, we what's going on in their wallets. And this is what we're
trying to break I think. I think as the next level of work that
has to be done, some kind of break up much more accessible treaties on
financial literacy and the whole business of public sector finance and how it affects them.
You have to really establish the causality between all of these numbers that are
running around and the fact that you know, we don't feel it, you
know, in our pockets at the ground level. I mean, I len
tell me today about the way in which we provide our social services is to
make sure we pay salaries and there's a checkle down, there's a doomption of
a chickle down effect and better in the salaries. What we're saying is that
we're all dancing around the key issue right and that issue is how do you
redesign a bigger and better Nigeria. Even if you start from the entrepoint of
revenue and expenditure. Right, it will leads you to the same set of
challenges. And when I'm challenging what I'm throwing to your own generation. Right,
and thank you for the thing. We were there and that was a
while ago. But is that we have to start thinking differently about this problems.
You have to use fresh eyes and looking at all problems. Right.
I'll leave you guys with just two quotes. These are my two famous quotes.
The very first one is very popular. Most people know it. You
can't keep doing this thing over and over and you expect different results. Right,
we do that. The second one is actually doable to Einstein, and
he says, you can't solve a problem thinking at the level that costs that
problem. Right now, the conversation mostly is thinking where they were talking about
it, at the level that costs the problem. Our leaders are to solve
problems thinking below the level that caused those problems. We can never solve those
problems. So we have to up again. I think beyond the level that
causes problem. This problems are chronic and they you. For you, for
a younger generation is to look at this thing differently. I said, Okay,
we've been doing the same thing over and over. Mentally, there has
to be a mindset switch. We can't be expecting different results. It is
a mindset thing. It's not the problem at some level. Again, to
give you another set of don't you gotta rotate the room? We got ate
the room. Sorry, but that's my two cents. Well, thank you
for this government. Thank you for listening. I'm saying my speech. I'm
grateful, Thank you, appreciate that reducer. Thank you so much. Doctor
a day in PhD. How are you doing, Yes, ma'am, doctor
doctor, please go hopping and talk. Yes, ma'am you can, please
go ahead. Good morning, it's been a while, all right, Thank
you. This topic. You know, you come up with an important topics
like this and I like to listen and learn. But of all of these,
I don't know. You have a spending problem. If you focus on
this very question directly, you will give one very simple answer. Nigeria do
have spending problem. No revenue, Yeah, we do. We do.
We do need to invest more in Nigeria. So we do have a little
of a revenue problem because we are not generating as much as we would have
generated. If you look at Nigeria with all the mineral resources. We have
the manpower that we have, you would say we are on that performing as
a nation. We are not doing everything we're supposed to be doing right because
there is stuffs in the are you industry. The ministers are stealing money,
you know, the customs are overcharging, the impactus and all of that stuff.
So we are not doing well. But when it comes to spending,
you look at every other aspect. Our government is focusing on spending money.
They are the epic, the most world I call it, the most unimportant
things, and that they spend money on it. You remember, does anyone
remember how much is spent trying to discover oil? And they're not three billion
about a billion dollars conservatively just to be conservated. Now, now that is
wastage. You spend all of that. There is There is oil already in
Nigeria. We have oil already. We have not finished that oil. If
we are still getting about I think about two points something. It's a billion
barrel per day something like that, right, and then you are looking for
more oil. There's no oil. There was no oil there to start with.
If there was oil there, shell would have been there. We told
them a long time ago. Shell is not stupid exactly. So that is
a very huge wastage that we have. These other waste where we hear news
like dif federal government is giving fifty billion to our poor, you know,
and then you don't see news like this decided they are giving fifty thousand per
family. These things are a huge waste of resources. Now you are spending
one way, you are not supposed to spend it because the people you are
giving fifty thousand two it is a stipend. They're kind of spending for a
week. The money is exhausted. If you can create job, job that
is tangible that this book can work, I'm make money for themselves if they
are Oh, I think we lost you. I can hear you, just
me can hear her. She's gone, oh sorry about that. Let me
get I am a due my name doctor, I think we lost you.
Let me get I am a due to speak. I am a jee here
go ahead. Okay, good evening, Carl, Thanks for the opportunity.
In fact, I am can you hear me? I can, sir?
In fact, when you mentioned that we spend four chillion on Salari's I just
got angry. I think we plan to talk. I just got angry.
You mean we spent about forty percent of our earnings or salary? Are the
people people MD workers? I want to I don't know. I don't know.
I I person myself too. I don't think that I will say that
when I'm like, twenty percent of my profits will be your salary. So
it doesn't just make sense. And the tennis. A lot of people in
these ministries have no business been there. I can tell you that the effective
people, brilliant people who are already doing the work, are not up to
twenty percent. The rest don't know what they're doing. They just sit down
there and collect money. And these are the issues that we for me,
for me, if it's okay, fire them right. They may be churious
and all that. But if we can be product creative, create new opportunities
and push them there, we should be having agricultural revolution like the United States
government. Right, God is eventing about fifty thousand Send all of them.
Yeah, they should want to learn how to write, drive tractor, do
other things and get busy. You cannot spend forty of your aims on salary.
It's sure that we are. These people are not effectively, are not
efficient at all and I year when people say, uh, the fact is
making state governors, uh busy, The thing is they're not lazy. A
lot of them are clueless because you cannot there you really love money. If
you really love money, you will want to work hard. You want to
see opportunities. Take for instance, the we do that that's very rich,
but is one of the most hard working artists around. He didn't just sit
down there because it's for the hard money, right, He's working very very
hard. Had a lot of people, a lot of the artists who came
from But that is the point. That is the point. It is who
you are. So a lot of the people who are leading on at the
state level are very very clueless. They are very very clue. I don't
think anybody can ask you because let's say IDR, who requestion your IDR?
Why can't you generate two hundred billion every month and still twenty billion? I
don't think anybody will know. But you don't want to generate because you are
clueless. It's not because you are lazy. That getting free money you're lazy,
it's not that. That's not true. And when they talk about I
know somebody said talking about the four trillion. She code down to the economy.
The T four trillion is not doing anything. Do you know the the
that's where the mets were around twenty billion annually. That is what he's sustaining
this country. If you take that away, this country will shut down.
I grew up in Beni. I know, I don't think. Okay,
for about five over almost ten years i've left. I've not stayed in Beni.
I know for sure that a lot of the banks that came they did
not come because they are industries, and I would think they're industries in belling
to match the banks that day. What I just living on, that's are
every dance going to keeping the dose stage running. That's what is keeping the
stage running. That is keeping the human bus governments, that's what is keeping
their running. You understand, So that that that's what it is the life
of this country. It is free money. Did that money is cyn Yeah?
So say for that. But it's very very annoying that you use forty
only form to pay inefficient people. I don't so I don't know them.
Just make this point right, I don't honestly to you, honestly to the
comments, right, if you pay salaries it's a stimulative effect if you especially
in the states of the Federation where there's no economic activity. I mean what
is in say or half your localugments area in happier state. If you pay
salaries there, you are bringing income there. There's consumption there, so economic
says that that's a good thing to do. The problem. The problem is
it's not done properly and it's not linked to anything. If you are paying
salaries and there are no roads, there's no power for those guys to take
that salary and buy a small tractor and then start to firm castave. But
they just point water into a basket. So it is the linkages that is
a problem. In the UK, they pay the doll if you're an employee
going to employment wages. It's in America going to employment wages. So it's
not a new thing to do. And those economies are more developed than ours,
but we are doing ours properly. If salaries are welfare, then make
it so. Employ one million people and pay them salaries unless it is welfare.
Every month you get all revenues, you take out forty percent you say
it for welfare, you pay them, then you reduce costs. Everybody knows.
This is what it's all about. Don't call it employment. Create a
civil service that is elitist, that is professional, that is very reproductive,
and separate them from the welfare. You can't turn the federal Ministry of quote
un quote to a welfare scheme. You can't put pull there to get a
job. People are go to get a job now they po can't get a
job in a bank, or go and see this minister who'll give you a
job. So you go to million ministries. They are on qualified people walking
there. Ask to your honor, suggest John in Cuba, when if you
catchal took over, he sent everybody young old. Everybody went to teach the
guys in wural areas how to read and write. You have people work in
the ministries you should be teaching. Take everybody out. Go to your local
government area foragverone will pay you slarry. Start a school, teach reading and
writing. We have ten million plus kids out of school, so there are
ten million kids that you can open up in school. You're in a federal
ministry of whatever, whatever, whatever. If you're not productive, package the
person into his hometown, give him money to build the school, let him
stay there and become a teacher and teach the kids maths and English. You
don't need ai for now. That's matts. I need to start from there.
Un, Let's see what's going to happen. I've got cheap beneficials.
Che is that you. She got the flog going once? She going twice.
Let's get your tea, your team, mister, yourta at it for
real? Now do believe? Okay, I think she. I think she
hopped it. You out? She go ahead, I'll take you next,
chee, you've got the flog ahead? Yeah, Hello, good evening,
Yes, ma'am. I can hear you, please go ahead. I can
hear her your say, please go ahead. I can't hear you cheat your
take go ahead? Okay. So I think for me, the answer to
the question is Niger does have to spending problem because if we put the money
that we're having in the right place, then we cands to its growth and
then get driven. So if we invest in infrastructure, if we create policies
that allow people to get Briton from whatever is that they invest in, then
we have a multiply effect and then we have more revenue the time. But
the problem we've had in Nidia for so long is that the spending is to
a level that is almost parasitic hypnoparacity. People spend recklessly and there's not a
comfortability. And so I think that's the pain of our problem in idea and
on to we can fix this. I really can't see a way forward for
us as a people now. I heard someone say earlier that it is the
responsibility of the people to hold the people in governments are comfortable. But I
think what the problem is is that democracy really is the numbers game, and
the majority of the people are not aware of the power that they hold in
the democracy, then the minority one power will use them as cannot hold us.
Really, they're just tools that they used to get into position, and
all power by themselves or when they be by their process. So onto there
is a massive awakening, you know, across let's say, our brothers and
sisters in that year, and this will keep going on and going on and
going on. The way it was in the time of our parents is the
way it will be in the time of our children, our generations to come.
And I think a solution to this really is all wes see during elections,
which is always saw during that all we saw we do aspitalpe do with
healthy which is grassroots outreage, you know. And I think there's someone Ontel
does who strive to do general YouTube but is getting people to create awareness,
but by people that they're close to, so people around them, and it
will have that multiply effect again where people know their power. Now, for
me, I think as the people, our strongest democratic our strongest democratic tool
is true to the legislative. So the legislators are the only elected officials that
we can recall. We don't have to wait every four years to elect someone
into position. Most people don't even know who's who's their representation. If they
know their representative, they can tell them that these issues that we have in
our communitee we don't have, we don't have What are you doing there in
the House of Say you're not going to speak for us about our issues?
Then come back home and then we'll have someone who can you know, voice
out the issues that they all know by the way, you know, in
the House, and then we can see any effect. The check of balance
thing we talk about that the people in the States can impeach the presidents if
they feel like the presidents are taking is taking steps that doesn't benefit the whole
country. So if we have people that reflect the mind of the people in
the legislature, then I feel like that is the easiest way for us to
move forward as a nation. Now, another issue of another point of raised
is that you don't mind real quick, yeah all right, random, if
you don't mind, second the room, yeah, okay, I'll just I'll
just make this last point in then around them and that's it. So the
legislative, the system is flawed in a way or this is flow on purpose.
So the legislative or the people who benefit from the system that is corrupted,
unfortunately, are the people in positions to make the change benefit all of
us. Right, And so I saw you tweet earlier, which is that
the cost of running the bycome more parliament is too much to go back to
learn paletarian system. And that makes absolute sense. We saw what happened in
England. They elected, they voted for their representative and then the following day
we knew was the prime minister and then we had a new prime minister.
So if we unfortunately, people that can make this happen are the people that
benefit from corruption. So untwo, we Nigerians realized that you know this democracy,
that we core powers of the people. We realized the true minion of
this. I think it will really be a really long route. Pumps gotcha
again. Would look at the cost of the governors in Nigeria. I don't
think that you can afford a U S style democracy. We will have a
president VP, two houses of two houses, Senate and House, then governors,
then state governors. I don't think we can afford it. I prefer
the British system where we have MPs go to your place, get elected,
come to our Buja from the elected guys. We form our ministers from there.
So we cut away ministers we have. We can even need the House
to expand it will be much much bigger than what it is today, maybe
maybe in the thousand seats, but we can run. This is what we
have right now. We can't afford it. It's not whether it's good or
bad. We simply can't afford it. We all that we can afford the
Rose Roys. So let's just move away from this western thing of House of
Assent. And I don't do anything. It's a waste of money if you
ask me, everything. So Toshi, welcome to our party. How are
you feeling? What's your take on this everything? So are you there going
on? Mister mister o'lup mis how you doing? Did you have a comment?
Dev B? I t oh, yeah, sorry about that. I
apologize, Yeah, please go ahead. Yeah, thank you so much for
I mean for giving me the mic. Right. I think this is my
second time on your space, and I will always love coming about, you
know because I usually learn a lot on the space. So, uh,
my contribution would be a little bit slightly off context, right, because I
I think I'm more of, you know, this kind of person that I
believe in. Let's be doing, you know, let's do something. Speaking
too much on grandma apologies? Right? So I feel like in this country,
I mean, this is not it's not this is not not just happening
right now. That's been happening over and over and over and over, right,
So talking about generating more revenue and then talking about you know, spending
too much from our leaders, right, I mean, it's it's not something
I just you know, spring of overnight. This is something that has becoming
you know, uh, realccurrence, you know, activities. Right, So
I feel like instead I was picking too much of grammar. This is a
space right here. Now, it's space like this where we can you know,
synthesize each other and then you know where we can you know, come
up with it strategy and active strategy for us to actually take actions. You
know, look at what is happening in Karia and right, so we can
actually speak to government democratically, you know, one voice. So I feel
like if we preach more unity, I mean it sounds more like like an
householder you know, terminology that has been you know, that has been in
place over the years. Right, we are not saying that in naturally,
but how about we you know, we use platform like this to preach more
unity so that we can speak them to our voice unity of what you know
when when I say you need to write because you know people some people you
know, we're we're looking at okay, what is currently these guys are speaking
with one voice and then they are trying to change things around and did you
see it's the results right because I mean the build that the administration. Yeah,
but what I what I trying to say? What what what do you
what in by unity? What I think we should do? We should because
we're just talking money economics finance. Here, we're just giving information to folks
like you. What I is what I imply. Okay, So so when
I when I when I mentioned unity, right, I mean if we are
to eat the street RDEA. Now, okay, we want to we want
to protest. I don't want to. I don't want to go there.
Just let's let's just them just they just stick to the I don't want to
go there. I don't want to yeh. The space, the space exists
to give information, right, So if you want to do whatever I want
to do, at least you come here with a note, or you listen
to the tape recordings, you will get information. So that's why I let
everyone speak. You hear the good side, you hear the other side.
Then you can say, okay, I want to use this as my platform.
Then you can do whatever I want to do. But we just want
to make sure we give you information on this space. I feel you put
your handle all right. I'm loving the information. Actually, gotcha got a
problem? Yeah? Wellways love to come listening to people you know, with
different your divers opinion, right. I love that In terms of you know,
the spending, I feel like government can cut down spending right, favorers
things. I mean that is literally affecting your you know, your own nation
and your ProPolice as a right. Mean, cutting down ministries is one of
them, right, there's some ministries we can collapse together and the lies like
you know, So I feel like, uh uh spending on the part of
the government, you know, if we are a case more on that me,
they can cut down some spending, just like you know, uh the
previous speakers, you know, we've mentioned it. I wouldn't want to be
you know, going there art again, so it doesn't sound like repetition,
right, So I feel like there's too much of spending three rollow spending from
the government, you know side, which they can cut down on and then
of course generating more even you as well, right, and then we are
citizens, you know, we are you know, we are doing our duties
right, so well with that, I feel like we can get it right
maybe one day. But that is like I said when I, you know,
when I when I, when I collected your mind said my own contribution
is that you coming from another you know, I got so thank you.
You're welcome. Let me get you to fibro youse, fibro right, and
ificant go ahead, everyone, how are you doing? So? Where are
you calling from? I'm calling from a how is that? Buddha? Today?
I saw a video with fewel lines? Do you guys have few?
Castidy back in a wow, yes, yes, yes, yes, you
go you know by well for life? Four hours? Five hours? Have
you been doing this platform? And mister, whatever you're saying is true,
and that's why I so many people on this platform. You know, I
follow you for a very long time and they are patching you from here to
there. But all what you're saying is true. Let me tell you something,
mister Cary, we are no serious. And why I say we're no
serious? I'll give you an example twenty sixteen, when you want to a
bad importation of rice, we said give us time. They give us time.
We came up with a fantastic document. They do comment that we came
out with. Mister. Now, a prison, now what is the essence?
You know? In a broad maybe the prisoners they eat a good food,
But you go to all night derum prison. They do eat good food.
Honestly, giving a dog eat better food than a prisoner. I'm sorry
to say that because I entered dare we do our investigation. We know how
it's what is happening. And I locate billions of netror and those billions of
never go down. The dream people eat the money. We say, okay,
now you want to band inportation of price, Okay, please let's do
something about it. We now came up with good recommendation. We picked like
a KB for our other places. The farm rise Futo, Minister of Agriculture,
open this farm settlement there a prisoner that was sentenced five years, let
him spend if he spent two years in the prison, let him go and
spent the remaining three years in farm settlement. They are you training? After
you train him, open account for him, which is v be giving him
some hours everyone, but don't give him cash. Don't allow him to have
access to their money until when he's done with these sentences. When he goes
there four hundred five hundred thousand, and you know, go back to crime.
But do what I want to those documents, those documents there they are
did you not even look at it? If to say we follow this recommendation,
but not about foods on food So rather the government spending money for for
for building airports. I used to surprise Safaa. Look at the state airport
airport. I went to go he went two three weeks ago. I saw
the airport. I was shocked and surprised. They spent billions of nearror former
governor of Aparm state instead of him to pure refinery. The biggest charge.
I'm sorry to say that. Look at my state Araba states that God gives
us a good lamp, very fatal lamp. But the governor's they would rather
have come to maybe this man now he's trying so and so that's what people
say. What the truth is that the government are no serious. One of
the speakers is saying that the people should pay that. My brother, if
you are painters and you know what's the money it's been channel to, you
will pay more. But Mageria, you will pay the time. Some people
who steal the money, I can't tell you. I know this is face
hand. So many some of those ministries, some of the good good,
good good ministers, they will okay the money that they are as reading from
people. We are at the money. They will not tell you. So
many so many bank charges okay PPP that go to some account. We know
all about that where the money is going. People are not asking. They
charge money. They will do some some tire. Let's say, if you
do something, will draw up. They charge your money. Where are the
money going? Do you tell your security how many were founded by? How
many from there by? Hello? No, I hear yourself. I'm not
saying yeah, I hear you. Yea. So the treaty is that in
Nigeria we are no serials and the government. Look at now, almajury this
this armagy, sir, I want you to round up if you don't mind,
small small should begging. What is the government doing the whole world you
cannot see whay people are begging, auries are begging. It's only in Nigeria,
you see. I've been to so many countries. I have no see
any alma even this, they don't have armaguries. But when you come to
Nigeria, here see small som huldren four years three years old. Like we
don't we don't have government as far as some concern in Nigeria, I'm sorry
to say that we don't have goment. Sorry, so thank you very much.
I hear you. We have a government maybe I know where can properly,
but we do have a comment. After your hands, do you have
anything the commentary real quick after boll Yeah that's a while back, can you
hear it? Yeah, yeah, that's a while back. So a two
points when you know, we we keep touching on this generating more revenue.
If if you're taking the revenue position and it makes sense, of course we're
our revenues are done. But I think not much is being considered on how
how much time it takes to actually generate sub sticking with revenue. If you're
looking at building out sectors, you will have the unstam the gentlemen before I
think it mentions the vice industry, vice production, I can hear. Yeah,
yeah, you can't. It's not overnight. You know, if you
raising taxes has consequences. Any taxes were also sitting level has consequences, and
you see that slowly now and then yeah, if you're looking at building out
the sectors, when you talk about it, those things take time. You
take planning, and it takes a coordinated effort to actually have a master plan
that will pan out in five ten years. You now have some seable revenues
journeated from industry that has been cultivated through the right policy, right infrastructure direction.
It's not something that's done so easily. But then what I'm saying that
lives on the more immediate austerity and spending. I mean, AFTERBOD you can
increase taxes in but you can get money by just adding maybe electronic money transfer,
which is what they've done. Money is coming immediately, like the next
day you can do V eight. Money comes immediately. The effect, like
you've said, is that people stop using banks. You know I went to
when I went to data the taxes taxes, I agree, I think,
but the tax the tax option legals to certain point. It's it's it's it's
it can get to it easily, gets also stable level taxes correct, and
that may also make this point again to people. I see people are saying
that we don't have two problems. You can only have one problem. We
don't have the spending and no, it's one problem. But let me challenge
people here. I want you to tell me since nineteen sixty when Nigeria got
revenues that did not plan for and it used those revenues for any social service.
From nineteen sixty till twenty twenty four, I give you two examples.
We had the goal for no before God. For we had the oil crisis
in Middle East, Nigeria got revenues. What do we do with that revenue?
Nothing? In nineteen seventy four, nothing, That's when we're saying our
problem was money and not to spending. We paid the Saturdays in Guyana,
we hosted first Tack seventy seventy seventy seven. We did all that. What
else did we do with their revenues? Nothing. Nigeria did not increase its
educational budget when we had the oil bonanza. Go back to the records,
it stayed the same. We increased our spendings on things like building Buja back
then. Back then we increased our support to a n C. We increased
all those things. We did all that stuff, but we did not increase
schools in Nigeria. The budget in Nigeria. Golf War one, Nigeria got
the purported twelve billion back then. No, this is the first golf for
not the second. I took away on the first one range. I bought
bicycles, brand new fiber far cars for every member. If you were in
the Army, Police, Navy, you got a brand new car from Posio
Posiu five O four brand new. Every officer got a car. Everyone the
high officer has got Mercedes Benzes. The middle color has got Santana, Focus
Santana. The lower guys got five fours. That's how we spent the money
amongst other things we build. The money has gone every time we get we
have an revenues. We don't spend this correctly with every time. So what
makes you think that if we get revenues today that if we increase revenues by
times too today, does it mean education what is going to go up by
times too? It will not. We have already said on the start of
the space that all the revenues that Nigeria generates, it's going to pay debt
service. I said all, I didn't mean my all the revenues oil gas,
every revenue goes to cannot I cannot pay debt service. Oil revenues cannot
pay salaries. That's where we are right now. And we didn't get here
in one day. We gotcha from successive governments increasing the size of the budget
and not increasing revenue of Nigeria. Nigeria has just one export product, that's
crude oil. Crude oil is eighty nine percent of our export earnings. Agricultural
exports do not exist in Nigeria. They are in minuscule and out of the
way. The only non ag culture export you have now is a Dangote yureat
as an export. That's what they're counting as non oil. They are counting
urea as normal. If you take the yurea take away dan Got's cement,
then we are not doing anything. This is the highest export of coudel in
Africa. We have no functionary refineries. The refinding today cannot even function.
We have to still import coulde oil. The country is not it's not such
a properly guys. The issue is not revenue. We have a revenue problem,
but that's not the problem. The problem is that that revenue came in
today, it will mismanaged tomorrow. That's the problem. And let's know how,
let's not get away from that fact. That's true. Let's let's yeah,
let's get jab in here. Job, you've got the floor. Job,
go ahead, just a devil JB. Go ahead. Yeah, a
good thing everyone. So to me, I believe that Najia has more of
spin problem rather than revenue problem, because I believe that one thing that we
lack in Nigeria most especially is accountability. People don't account for ministries that they
are in charge of local government, state governors. They don't account for anything
at all because at the beginning of the year we always have Like you said
earlier, we have three budgets running concurrently right now, if we monitor four
okay four now, if we monitor those budgets, compare them to the actual
Now, how much have they spent and let's see what they've been able to
achieve. We don't have a revenue problem. Is this spending we are nobody
is checking anybody because keep spending it. They initiate projects on the project and
then they don't have abandoned it. Then four years after that, our goverment
comes in the review it, they bring you amount of it crazy. We
cannot continue like this. I don't know what the I don't know is it
the Accountant General de Fagation, the office. I don't know what they're doing.
I don't want check in. I don't know if we have auditors in
the federal ministrators checking this project. The last the last the last account in
general, not the last one. I think the previous one stole eighty billion
nira. Yes, you say, arrested him. I heard it. Now,
is King or something like that. But he stole money, he's under
he was arrested, he was fired, he's not in jail eighty billion,
But continue, sir. Can you just imagine that that's the people that we
are even putting in charge to monitor these people in power. So one thing
that we can do, we already know that the true seris and as of
representatives is just a wisdom money we all know we need can just crap one
of them. We know that that is close to being impossible. So I
like to take a practical approach to things. Firstly, it's we need accountability
and I don't know how we can go about it past Nigeria's and as I've
forgotten this speaker's names somebody who mentioned earlier, we need practical approach because we
have to just stop talking about this. Is this getting more and more frustrating
most especially when you understand the numbers. Are you understand how it is affect
affecting you personally? Because currently now check the middle class in Nigeria, it
is there's no middle class anymore, there's no middle plans anymore. Everybody is
struggling. People are you know people are now advising people that you don't have
to eat three times. It's not crazy. Even middle class. When I
started my career, I know a lot of folks that were in the middle
class and that we're in the middle class and very brilliant people. Currently now
it is very very difficult the organization that I am now, this is very
very difficult for you to see expert and put their professional Most of them have
left the country because the economy is two kingdom And what do people need?
People doesn't need economic driven infrastructures to fund some that's what people need. People
need water, they need light. There are a lot of people that are
self driven in Nigeria. Provide water, provide light, provide accessibility to single
digit loan for people, entrepreneurs. We have people that have we We can
see what the Nigerias in the creative industry and it has to tell you how
creative we are in Nigeria. If only the government can provide that enabling environment
for them to try, people will try create economic developing projects. That's number
one. Let accountability, lets people come and give account of what they are
doing. It's not just about the presidency here. There are some organizations,
even private organizations in Adia that are poorly rung even more than public organizations.
It's about leadership. It is about accountability, not just about the presidency,
about governors and members of the House of Presidency. Wherever you are as an
individual, as a leader, give accountability. Give accountability is very very important.
Lastly, I will let you there's this thing that we do in Nigeria.
We have brilliant ideas. Everybody can just come and come and if they
are brilliant and brilliant ideas, but when it comes to implementation, it is
several zero implementation. At the end, people just you know, just talk
talk talk to get the money. Once they get money out, they share
money. We cannot continue this week. I don't know what mister calw of
people at the top that have access to I would like put it people that
have passion. There's still a passion for this country. What they are going
to do about this accountability problem. We need to really look at it.
We need to. I cannot say the usc or the specia are not working.
We need to start bringing put the book on how they are spending our
money. If you spend this money well and the infrastructures are working, we
will generate more revenue directly or indirectly. That's a low the economy works.
Last I think last year we generated almost twelve or something trillion or so.
How much did fi Arrage generates is trying to increase the taxing it. At
the end of the month, when I get email from for my pay for
Lego states, I see their mother and pain and I wonder, what are
this evening for me? From paying this amount? I go out and buy
things. You tag me some upon fire viearity. I come home right now.
There's no like, there's no hardline for almost for theaters are We're running
on generator all weekend and I'm paying for I'm paying pay and it is just
becoming very, very frustrating. You can see a lot of people here that
already in Canada, UK, but but there are some people that you know,
we are still in this country. We are looking for Let the convent
do something, don't make it a litle bit easier. It's becoming more and
more frustrated. I don't know what they can do about this accountability problem.
If they need to create maybe an agency that is driven by I T Nigerians
those there are anything to do with politics that need to be monitoring. These
are budgets. Thank you very much for this opportunity. Let me appreciate you.
All those things exist. There's nothing you will say here doesn't exist already.
We have budget monitoring reports, We have a depend on monitoring. Like
you writer said, implementation, who is going to do the hard work of
falling up with what said is going to be spent award at this spend.
Let me give you a way tracker if you go online, just do a
tracker. They are private initiative. They track your budget. They track what
was passed and what has been done with pictures. You can follow, you
can retweet, you can request to be one of the guys that they don't
track projects. You can say, okay, they're having my state on my
local gooment area. You can go there. You can take pictures, you
can send to them and they would post it up. So there are things
you as an individual can do that you can that is easy. You don't
have to even put your name. If you think will know you just flow
them tracker. They're on here on Twitter. It's Privacy Sector lad and that's
essentially what they do. So see if you can flow them. Let me
get Cindy Adele, is this Cindy adele ago, Hi, Cindy, if
you can speak ahead? Can I go ahead? No? No, I
just asked, Sindy. I just added, Cindy, don't mind by line,
Syndy, go ahead. Oh good evening, can you hear me?
I can thank you? Oh good evening. Everybody. Like you said,
does Nigeria have a spending problem? I would say yes, a problem is
more of a spending problem than the revenue problem. Like you said, you
can't have two problems. We have a spending problem in Nigeria. In the
era of the oil boom, what did we do with the revenue we see?
We saw dollars flying up and down everywhere. Money. Moneys were just
going from bank account to bank account, different circuits money. They were spending
money, some fibolities. But what did we do at the time. Nothing.
We were here when former Sybyan governor accused the National Assembly of consuming almost
twenty five percent of the budget. That's just one arm of the government consuming
up to twenty five percent of the budget. What did we do was that?
Probably never addressed? No, it was never addressed. He also accused
the NNPC of not accounting for tens of billions of dollars at the time.
What did he do that eventually led to his belief or his position at the
time, But the problem was never addressed. You see in Nigeria is just
we are just headed by people. I don't know if I was saying,
we don't know what we are doing. We just spend money on rubbish,
like people will say. You know, corruption normally is a human problem.
But until we start building strong institutions to chech make ecstasis of people, we
are not going anywhere. We are not going anywhere. Like somebody said,
you know, thinking of you know, charging more on taxes and having people
pay more taxes. The gentleman who mention paying more paye mister Carlo, you
run a corporation, the corporation tax you pay, the income tax you pay
for your PIIC, the educational tax you pay. How many people can conveniently
send their children to public schools in Nigeria and vouch for the outcome of those
schools. You pay taxes and expecting to get security from the government. But
how well does that go? It doesn't go well. We all know we
have spending problems in Nigeria. When we had money where they channeled in the
right direction. They've never done that. But every time we come on spaces
we say these things, retweet about them. No results. The financials you
published the last time. Look at the staff costs in the financials, it
covered the chunk of you know, the revenue, the receipt and then you
look at the cost of debt in the financials the same thing. Who is
going to pay for the cost of that debt? Nigerians and we Nigerians we
don't even know. We pay for all these borrowings that the government is collecting.
We pay without knowing. You do a bank transfer, you pay two
thousand and hours for buying tomatoes. They will charge you down duty, They
will charge you be eighty. They will charge you all these charges that you
can all account for. Where do they go? They go to the government
compass. What does the government do for you? Nothing. You provide water
for yourself, You provide security for yourself. You do better and everything for
yourself. At the end of the day, we are back to square one.
We keep talking, talking and talking. Nothing is ever done on that
note. Until we start building really really strong institutions to check make people's excesses.
We are going nowhere. Even in the West. That's corruption. It's
a human problem. Let's not delight the fact Westerners are also corrupt. But
why theirs is only limit because you have very very strong institutions that we check
made you regardless of who you are. We all saw what's happening to Donald
Trump. Can that ever happen in Nigeria? Never? He never does.
Every day we see ESCCY just play rig marooning around, just doing a show
for us. What happens to these people? Nothing? We go back to
square one. We are here form a governor, pay school fits in advance.
What are they to talking about today? No? So look did we
start checking these people, but to be clear, to be clear what we
had had we check them. It's it through the ballot boxes. No,
mister Carlum, not through the ballot box. We saw what happened in February
of twenty twenty three. Until we have strong institutions, look at the judiciary.
Can we vouch for them? No? The institutions are he headed by
humans. We have to check it headed. But for them to be headed
by people with you know, seemable character, people you know, we just
have to have strong institutions. Honestly, it's hard it's hard, and I'm
just being honest with you because if I become president, I put my quote
unquote cronies in these institutions, and those guys are supposed to be the ones
to check. Make me look at the guy that was in the Federal Consumer
Board, he's out of office. He's out of office. They just said,
oh he's out and he's gone. So that's that's a shot across the
bow. The minute star that was appointed that has been accused of corruption,
she's not fired, she's not just we don't know where she's since she's in
pogatory, we don't know if she's fired. So at the institutions, to
me, look like the federally appointed. What about What can the people do?
Like I like, like I said, tracker where you can say a
private lead can track money, like on on Twitter? Where to get information
and share it across the board? I go to the Budget Office on the
site I go to every time the Statics office. Want the Office of Statistics,
I go there. I get information I share all the time. Are
there things that individuals, private individuals can do to check the excess and spending
of this governments? Actually? Why I think there's going to be more impact.
The Ken guys, for instance, they got the bill and I was
listening they lead up to the protests that they had. They were explaining this
bill in their local language to people, explaining why this was bad, why
these taks will had to go up, and why the government could not reduce
his own expenses. And now the government has reduced their expenses. Why did
the government use the expenses for patting the bill? Kay also has institutions.
So when I'm going to it has to come to the people getting serious everybody,
like everybody your complaints. But people want to ask, but don't know
what to do. I get out of DMS every time. What can I
do? What can I do? And this is what I want to get.
What can people do if they see something wrong with the government? What
can they do? Of course people call out the government every now and then,
But what do we do as the people. You don't have the power
to you know, to cover whatever's going on. Like I said, the
institutions we build will have a serious role to play for these things. Okay,
how do we build these institutions? They will be headed by individuals just
like yourself and other people. Oh, you know, have high moral standards,
to uphold the true and what is supposed to be. I think that
we should we should make the attorney general position, maybe not not appointed,
but elective. I think it's one thing we can do and make it and
make it maybe a lot to say that the ruling party cannot appoint that in
general. It has to be an elective position from so if you win,
then the elected the other guys go and do a campaign for who become that
toney general. Maybe that's what we can do. It's way, but let's
let's start with that. Yeah, just one minute. I wanted to add
the naratives that you spoke about what we can do. I think we should
look at data first, you know, because I like to use that to
that pig. Nigerians averythly are not interested in the economy. If you look
at key, if you if you use Google trend, if you look as
key was entertainment, weddings social trend in Nigeria more than the economy. That's
the truth. You see. If you look at food influation, for example,
you can count the number of people that talk about food information on social
media. So you see the problem is that we give this is the kind
of system that enjoys in competence because the people are also because we only get
aggressive when things are born in or when maybe somebody's mothered, somebody is attacked
and we shout and goes in. But if we look at the data itself,
can we are not really interested in these co issues. So until we
get things done by informing people that see, financial craic is not just about
investing, not about blubbing, is about knowing the economic responsibility as citizen you
must play in the economy. Then that is where accountability starts. This is
themselves. I'm a failure accountable. You know, I was studying some people
in Africa, like, do ask me why is it that Nineturias, despite
the fact that we have so much in indeck, we don't really look at
our stock market with so much excitement because it's not attractive. It's not attractive.
So you know, apart from your space, if you look at your
calory, this is do his pace on David and his wife, you will
get five thousand, five thousand people who come on that space. Can do
his pace on a quarrier between one and one posician, you will get ten
thousand. But look at this space we're having. This is the problem we're
having, Ninageria caludy. It starts from the citizens. I hear you,
I hear. I mean how many nineteen years under started that twenty twenty five,
we're going to pay back one billion dollars in cash back to the eurobonds
principle. One billion we're going to pay back. We've already paid IMF for
about six forty three million, I think it was this last one. We're
paying a lot of money out. If you look at the iman, I
understand that what the stans mean for the Naira that fd EYES has been flat
for almost ten years, you know, since Bohari at the dying ages of
good Luck presidency and all true Bohari's presidency, fd I was flat. Foreign
dight investments and what we're saying with Smith's Clem Guinness leaving Nigeria has been a
long trend that has been going on. Do we understand what it means for
foreign companies to be pulling out of Nigeria on a consistent basis, How that
it affects jobs, how that affects even productivity. Do we understand what that
means? So you have a country Nigeria where the fd eyes are living.
And then the young youths in the country that are supposed to pay the taxes
are also living. So the Canadian companies are going back to Canada. The
Nigerians are going to Canada with the Canadian companies to pay taxes in Canada.
So who's there to Nigeria. You've followed out the potential middle class, which
means down the line, they're going to find it very, very difficult to
grow taxes because the bulk of your workers that can earn and grow taxes.
And in Nigeria, I some won't think that guy big boying Legos, he
has du our citizenship, so he's going to be paying taxes in the US
today because it's now a US citizen and US taxes to you based on your
citizenship, not where you live. So if you're a US citizen, you're
going to pay taxes in the US, even if you live in Nigeria.
But are we connecting the dots? It is my PRI's my question. And
eventually we scream that that things are hard, but all these are domino effect
that we're only anticipating. Imo imo or quote unquote, You've got the floors
Olympica. Thanks for that inside emom here Hi go ahead, Thank you so
much. Everyone doing from Scotland. All right, thank you so much for
the kind of program. Now, the question is if we are if I
haven't spending problem or avenue problem, I will say we are having boats.
Also, I would say that the the new problem that I have is as
a result of our spending habits. So if we are able to solve the
spending problem, then the revenue problem is no longer an issue. Why did
I say so? As if you check our tacks to to Russia, you
find out that in the whole of Africa, Manda is one of the country
that's guests very little from past contributed to the Google Boo boots. All right,
However, the problem is a problem of It's a problem that we'll see
in Nigeria. On average person, an average coman in Iberia, when you
increase his income, who definitely increased his number of flute. We definitely increased
the number of shoes instead of investing it. So he will continue to be
work because spending on those things it's what makes so it doesn't make riach.
That is exactly the picture of Nigeria. Today, our leaders, we are
spending on free volities. So that's means that even if we increase our revenue
then it will not transend to improvements and infrastructures. It do not to reducing
unemployment. It will not transcend to checking inflection. Why because uh, we
will spend the more of that revenue on buying aircraft, buying cars, changing
cars. Every month you look at your severe governor, is just let's say
a government just going how many meters away? We say the number of cars,
we see the number of people. Right, you're still an a.
We have an aid another head, we have an aid another so those offices
are just being used to cycle money, right, so we continue to borrow
for these things. Will continue to borrow for this thing. So you look
at our borrowing. The last time I checked at least our borrowing. Now,
if an averagement there is to pay, Okay, every dear will have
to pay almost five hundred thousand. Everything here is going over five hundred thousand
when you check our to write it by the population. So we kind of
that our problem now is not really uh, generating money. Our problem is
that I was spending habits. Spending habits will have a very poor spending habit.
We have a spending habit of a former So when somebody said that generation
is a problem, yes it's a problem. But our spending habit is why
we are having this problem. Generation problem all right, our imaginal propensity to
consume higher than our marginal propensity to save. So when that is the case,
there is no amount that you generate that will help the economy. How
However, it can only help your fleet of cars. The number of cars
will have. It will help your stature because you will have to eat more
and that is what is happening and the enjoy. So no matter how much
weight to tax the people now, it will not help the economy. Still
have that them attitude. That's the habits. So we need to change our
spending habits so that when we generate it will also general help the economy to
improve the economy, improve the GDP, improve the life of the people.
You see here somebody made mention of social security plain salary as a social security
How many persons are receiving their salaries? Okay, we have a number of
If you ask the federal government to publish the number of people that are receiving
a salary for the federal government. You have a lot of list, you
have a lot of people. But if you take incloser look at those numbers,
you find out that those numbers, most of them doesn't exist. It's
just one person trying to pay so many people to the same one person account.
Right, you find out that this one is just circulating within a part
a clars set of people. So Nigerians are not really getting it. So
if we want to get a social security can map out a plan and so
okay, every year, this is what we are budgecting for social security.
These are the people the category of people that are getting into who have accountability
for that, who have statistics, who have number for that, so that
at every point in time, you look at the numbers and you are seeing
the changes when somebody security, you're seeing the changes in the economy. Somebody
is getting Sealardy. You know, this person is getting seleb, this Wesson
is getting social Security. And we'll find out find ways to also make sure
we have a lot of people that are saving money. I want to summarize
with this that the problem we're having is spending problem, not really revenue problem.
Thank you so much. Got so it's more of a structure. Like
you said, it's a structure that even if we do get the revenues,
the structure is wrong, it will still revert back to this excessive spending.
I like the point in you've made about separating the welfare from the civil service.
Civil service can be a welfare scheme. It's got to be to this
separated. If a welfare scheme in Nigeria, let's build one, right,
let's separate it from giving people jobs because we want to give them a sense
of income separated completely, and I think to work from their legacy. Legacy
capitals, You've got the floor. Go ahead, thank you. In more
prediose comments, Legacy capital you've got the floor. Thank you. Some legacy,
You've got the floor. If not, I'm going to take my tongue
and tea togue Legacy go for it. Yeah, Okay, good living everyone.
I do. Actually, I've been I've been listening to this space,
and you know, I've been following all the consumers conversation we are having whenever
I have the time. You see, the issue with Nigeria is not a
peculiar one. And if I'm to say it's just a matter of a deliberate
problem. It is a problem that can even be solved within the very shortest
space of time. But the honest sho it is that Nigeria doesn't have a
revenue problem. We don't. What do we have is spending problem and a
lot of people have said that over and over and over again. The issue
is not you generating extra revenue or more revenue, but based on the allied
class that we have, the people that are the ruling class, whenever they
see a problem, you've been the individual that is facing that problem. You
see it as a problem that needs to be solved from their own angle.
They see it as avenue to make profits and Nigeria needs to understand it.
So long as you are not holding the people can accountable, especially your leaders,
and rather you are pulling back to worship them, we'll keep on having
this problem and at the end of the day, this problem will keep on
squeezing all of us. That's trusteeds. Some people will claim that it doesn't
consign them, they have nothing to do. They are booted ones and the
rest of well do stop that they cannot do anything anymore. This is exactly
what these people want you to do. For you to cower and move so
that they continue to do what they are doing. So for me, we
don't have the revenue problem. What we have is the spending problem. And
the worst aspect of the spending problem is that the people that we have in
the place of government are the people that has no business being there. In
almost all the offices in Nigeria, there is none that is functioning. There's
a difference that you paid something on a high price, like you paid premium
for this service and you got to that service because the person that is there
that you pay that premium to exactly what he or she is doing. But
in Nigeria we're just based on clunys and in the next man being the citizen
or somebody is just looking for the next avenue of opportunity for inm to steal
from the commonwealth of the people. So these had a problem. It's not
a problem of revenue generation. It's not a problem that there is no money
there or it's not a problem that people doesn't know what they do. But
for me personally, I see it's that's a problem of interest. The people
we have representing the government offices that are making the profit out of all distance
they don't have the interests of the nation at that work. They just know
is find it wherever you can get it, and get the money. Let
us share it. It's just a business interesting, I hear you, sir,
So for men, for me to solve this problem until we the people
who will deliberately become as in active participants in this government and die down the
narrative that it doesn't consign or some people who justify that God would provide the
perspion of me being very, very practical in this last lection that passed right
from twenty nineteen is when I started paying attention to all distance. But the
majority of Nineteerians doesn't have the information they need because number one is that they
are not interesting. And when you tell them these things, rather than them
pacing the issue or accepting the reality of whati on gird, they find a
way to either justify it or to hate you. And when our politicians look
at all this narrative and all these things, they don't see any reason for
them not to do whatever they wants to do. These are the problems because
you don't for me personally, I don't believe in forgiveness. I believe in
consequences, and whenever you see people, whenever you see people doing something,
it's either they have interests or they are moving to the direction of their own.
It's died. So everything we let it go. That's why we see
somebody. We still something that belongs to everybody, and there is no accountability
because nobody's going to hold in accountable for it. Even the masters will plenty.
I will tell you that even though if you get to it, you
can do your you don't run a country like that. All right, perfect,
Thanks for the contributions, Legacy. I appreciate it, very pointed statements.
If I may say so myself. I appreciate you commenting, Legacy,
hanging there, get involved, don't stop getting involved, right, appreciate that
I can exactly. All right, thank you, mister Akin. Hi,
how are you doing? Hello? Yeah? You doing here? You are
fine? I I so this this question you asked, if you've raised a
lot of really complicated things like so on so many levels, I partially agree
with almost everything everyone has said before. Yes, there should be accountability,
yes they should, Yes we should build institutions, Yes we should spend money
more effectively and efficiently. But then Nigeria also has a revenue problem. The
thing is, if you divide which are just those did a few minutes ago
vicum on on the podium. If you divide estimated budgets, so say about
sixteen billion by about ten two hundred and ten million Nigerants, that's about what's
seventy six dollars per person. If you convert that tonyra, that is what
pretty much maybe about say and say eighty thou ninety thousand or something like that
a person. Now, that is a very small amount of money per person
to do almost anything. Now one we now add the issue of the get
servicing and all the other things. You and I know that it's not going
to be that seventy six dollars. It's probably going to be more like forty
dollars per person. So clearly there's a problem of revenue generation. When you
look at Nigeria compared to our peers in Africa at a level of development,
you see that Nigeria stands at the lowest in terms of tax revenue to GDP.
It's still low. I'm not even sure Nidera has even cracked ten percent
yet in terms of tax revenant to GDP. That's low. So the thing
is just looking at it from those objective measures. Let's not talk too much
about developed countries, because if we talk about developed countries, there will be
so many tables that will have to be shaken because there are some truths that
I think Nigerians don't want to hear about development and what leads to development.
I think we so some there's this notion, and I'm hearing it from a
lot of people. We just think that somehow development happens by just voting people
or even democracy. Generally speaking, we have that notion that that is really
what leads to development. But it's much too much, much more complicated than
that. I think most people that study economic history economic development know that you
basically break a lot of eggs, and you waste a lot of eggs.
You break a lot of eggs, you learn as you're doing now, the
system of government that you have, the political system that you have, make
some of those things happen and some of those things not happen. So,
for instance, in the issue of effecting management of public resources, the think
is this, it is fundamentally a political problem. It's not a problem really
that can be solved by quote unquote having accountability who are the people that are
going to that are going to keep people accountable, those people to have political
overloads. Now, it's like it's like a chicken and egg kind of problem.
So if you say today that you're going to build institutions, who builds
those institutions? It's people whose livelihood depends on the current system. Now,
how likely is it that if you put the three hundred of us on this
space and you put us in that position, that will do any better than
the people that are currently exist. It's very unlikely. The thing is that
the system, the whole problem is a political problem. And I'm not so
sure that even greater greater participation by the ABAC nigrant is going to solve the
problem. Because the thing is, you and I know that Nigeria is a
country that is driven deeply driven by ethnic and trical issues like these are not
something that you can simply just wish awhere. I just think, oh,
everybody just speak with one voice. Nigerians will not speak to one voice,
even even when even during Covie nineteen, when when the country was at the
worst position it's it's been, this is the civil war. We're not speaking
with one voice. That's to show you the problem. So I think the
real issue is that I think it's it's it's it pains me to say this,
but I think Nigeria is a fundamentally ungovernable country. I think we just
had that eighty years under the Obasu administration and maybe two years or so under
Jonathan before everything really got so bad that we're living in this bubble where where
we thought this is the way things are. But the reality is that if
you look through Nigeria's history, what we got on that Barria and what we're
getting courrent on that to noble effectively, what Nigeria's governments usually look like.
This typical Nigerian government if you look from from the Balua era, let's even
assume that doing those a lot of things because it was the first person,
but from the aging Rosy to go on and they're like, this is the
sepical Nigerian kind of government. It's it's not something that just currently interested And
unfortunately, I think the thing about the about elections, I'm not certain elections
are going to even giving me a sort of check on anything that's going on
in the country. It's it's a really unfortunate thing for me. To say.
I think it's it's a very big problem. It's not a problem of
simply just saying, oh, we'll just get the right people. And how
do you get the right people in a political system where it's people that have
money and moneyed interests, people that have money and have access that I'm more
likely to get into governments, both dis civil service and the elected office.
I think so if I could have been a question, so, I think
I honestly agree with everything you said. But let's let's let's look at this
right. Let's look at Kenya and Nigeria. You know, the Kenyans have
many similities with us. Also the expressional government, also a corrupt government,
also tribes. You know there is for plassing that Obama would not have been
lettered in Kenya because of his dribe is so small you okay, all right,
Kenya went ahead when they were campaigning this Rutal guy, the Luto guy
went ahead, and I was negotiating with the IMF. They knew what the
IMF had ackeding to do. The imfers they're going to have to increase taxes,
blah blah blah. The past Defendance bill where rut was just I think
was last month Ruto got about nine hundred seven million dollars from the IMF.
The BIS for getting their money was to pass up this bill. So they
signed two point three million dollar loan. They give them about a billion or
so last month. We hope was that, okay, now you've got the
money, go and pass the Finance Act and we'll give you more money.
They did that right, They passed the Finance Act. They literally passed the
act. Then what happened? The youth came and says, no, this
cannot happen. You've got to go back and cut your expense even if you're
going to pass the act. We want you and I to suffer together.
You go and caught your expenses. They said no, we won't cut expenses.
The place went into chaos. Now what can I added to right now?
Where's the social where the Kenyan government? The Kenyan government has cut has
caught expenses. They've caught expenses right, So essentially it worked in Kenya whether
they cut one dollar or they cut one cent, but they caught it after
saying they would never cut it, that they could only pass the finance bill.
Now they have to go borrow. We can argue but they caught it.
The youths made them cut it because the youth got involved, were informed.
You health their ground. So why can we Solana say this? And
I think qinently, I think we're in Africa, we're currently saying the effects.
So you know, a few years ago, about two or three years
ago, we're getting some people going online saying what China is doing in Africa
is takes diplomacy, is colonial is colonialism by another name and everything. But
where are those people today? The Chinese? Basically we're giving loans to countries.
They give loans to even the same Kenya to go and build real China
just tells you, okay, you want to what do you want to use
it? You want to do, they'll give you. They don't tell you
how to change your your your loss. They don't change your political system.
They don't ask for human rights concessions and whatnot. We had Golibool, extremely
golibol africaans that we're going online and saying this is called realization or colonialism.
Now we have the IMF going to so many African countries essentially telling them that
they should cut their states. They should literally take a sledge armor and destroy
their states. These are upstates that already have a shuffle of teachers, of
police officers, of soldiers, work mods and we're telling them, and they're
telling them to stick a sledge amount to them telling them to adopt setting human
rights things. Yes, I suppose there's a lot of those human rights concessions
personally, but if your country is not at that position, you can't force
them to get to that position. So the thing is, I agree,
like I agree that everybody should be in the same board. Like, you
can't be telling somebody that they should tighten their belts. I don't even think
Nigerants have been impelled to even tighten because at this point, Nigers are dying.
It's not even an exaggeration anymore. So we saw the Guardian reports last
week about one in several nine Jeans are literally starving at this point. Yeah,
Okay, where I'm going to is that you know, like you know,
the first comment you made, I agree with it one hundred percent.
I like you said right rightly, the Nigers is difficult. I want to
use the word difficult, pays to govern youth. I agree. I'm saying
that Kenya also was difficulty, and Kenya had disputed elections like Nigeria before Utwo,
before Kenyata, people were killed for the elections. But they seem to
have now this. The youth seem to have come together now and held their
politicians to account. And remember the military were deployed. The court says not
go back to your barracks. The religious leaders came out and said we support
the Kenyan youth. So there was nowhere. There was no cover for the
politicians. The army didn't come out, the religious guys didn't come out.
It was them versus their youtes, and their youthes have won. In respect
of what happens to the economy, No Kenyan mp can tomorrow bring any bill
that would still are going to increase taxes with that out first, showing not
just cutting, showing that they have caught their own time. This is the
point I'm making to get it right, and we haven't. So the thing
is if I tell you, if I tell you today that the answer is
that I have a very good answer for your life. The truth is that
Nigeria is just it confounds so much that it's especially on the political state.
With the economics is quite straightforward, but the politics is so you won't believe
finish difficult. Like you can literally say today you're bringing a whole political party
the campaigned on We're going to bring say, consumptions production to enter day and
will start to allocate resources to buy cars, to buy this, to buy
that, to buy this. Literally things are not able to add value to
the to the policy making of the National Assembly, like this is this is
what you get in the country. Look at even the state too, States
like states that are even fr genius. Let's not even talk about the multi
more heterogenious states in Nigeria, say like United the Ator in the central part
of the country, not central Middle Belts as people call it. You still
see the same thing. Say there was the states just a few months ago,
literally six or seven months after the election that we didn't pitch there.
The speaker like, the thing is it is the politic is so finishedly,
so wickedly difficult, and unfortunately, on top of the poor politics and the
extremely terrible polities that the country has, you now have a bunch of people
who done will know the job of the administration parts, so it now compounds
the problem. It's like in visual cycle politics, printing all sorts of terrible
minded people that just have money and connections. Really, that's what they have
business bringing governments. Okay, okay, I mean I mean, yeah,
I hear you. I mean that's as I hear you. Complete, just
you know, like you said, like I had not a confounding place where
people would agree with you. People will be in a room together and we
both agree we are starving. Then you say, okay, we're both starving,
right, there is food in that cupboard. Let's go get food that
when says no, I won't go and get the food, but we're both
starving. Yes, so let's go get food. No, I don't want
to get the food. I want to I want to starve and I want
to support the personalice you know exactly. I don't Sometimes I can let just
let I don't want to go. I don't. I don't want to go
there. But it's it's it's I don't know, I don't get it.
Let's let's get my tongue, my tongue and take I can appreciate you,
thank you my tongue and say you've got the floors my tongue, my tongue
going. Once my tongue are ready to speak, let's get a twenty twelve
monster is that you, sir? Yes, that's me with a doubt that
I hadn't got the floor. Okay, well it's a very interesting conversation.
Well just to air my opinion about whether Nigeria's problem is senation, oh the
problem of spending. Well, I go with those opinion. That's my worst
problem, you know, is a combination of both because when we look at
it, uh, Nigeria is highly dependent on oil revenue, and beyond oil
revenue, we're not making you know, major strides in other in other in
other things that will drive money into the country. And even the revenue we
generate from oil, there is there is so much corruption and Nigeria is gettumbu
for its money. I know most of us have seen the documentary of how
the the oil company in Saudi Arabia monitors whatever it is you know, from
the ound and then you know monitor up today revenue, revenue, the chain
of revenue that comes to the country. So everything has been monitored and there
is open government accountability and so on and so forth. So actually, Nigeria
has to day versify its economy in order to generate the much needed revenue to
take the free to where we want it to be so much blessed. We
have you know, a good climate for agriculture. And it surprises me when
I checked the last time that's uh, China, even though it is leading
in terms of technology, is actually generating the most revenue in terms of agriculture
worldwide. And what is helping it do that. It's because the government is
supporting the agriculture reforms in China and you know there is a high you know
amount that I mean the large force of people that are in the agricultural team,
uh, you know are good enough to take the country to that to
that level. So we we really need to do a lot about agriculture and
then also look at the other mineral resources that we have. I I saw
the last time that you know, a symbolic goal was present and to the
president and I laughed because you know, they allowed people, you know,
stealing the gold reserves that we have, you know, and then you know,
coming symbolically on television that Nigeria is coming with an estimate of what it
is going to generate from from mining from mining gold. So actually we are
not a serious country in terms of optimizing the resources that we have. So
unless we do that we continue to have, ah, you know, shortage
of revenue and even the oil that we have is not really helping us.
And I remember watching an interview where a contrast is being made between Nigeria and
other oil rich countries. It wasn't you was the interviewe on that hard talk
with the of the program, and then he said, well, it is
not good to make this comparison between Nigeria and other countries in terms of what
we're hitting from oil because definitely you can't compare. So the oil industry is
such an industry that even the President does not have the cloud to actually you
know, control what is happening within that space. So and that is why
it is very important to strengthen our institutions. And I had the last time
you were asking how can these institutions be strengthened, and I liked it that
you said, well, we have to separate the office of the Attorney General
and the Minister Justice to make the office of Attorney General, you know,
an office that citizens can elect and the office will be independent. It is
not actually submitten to the President and commander into a popular with Nigeria or any
other political office holder. You know, so that that would be one of
the ways we can strengthen our institutions. We can our institutions also by by
by you know, promoting you know, the reforms in the judiciary, to
make sure that you know, cases are disposed quickly in our courts, you
know, to make sure that you know, laws are reviewed that are intend
them with the realities of our time. So all these things have to be
done in order to take this country to where we want it to be.
So in terms of spending, also, we have a huge spending problem as
a country. Corruption is the key because we don't haven't we are not serious
as a country. We allow every sector to be corrupt. This management is
at the highest level and so so Nigeria's problem is just a combination of the
two factors. We have shortage of revenue and even at that, we are
also spending recklessly. So actually we need to do or not. And I
like it that the majority of those contributing in this space are are young people
and we need to have a common vision. We need to have a shared
vision of how we want this country to be. We have to take this
country from those that you know are not ready to move it forward. So
I think this is uh yeah, and just also said it's just just so
cool to follow. Right. There is no organization or nation, or institution
or group of people you will ever ask do you have enough money? And
they will say, yes, we have enough money. Warren Buffett has nearly
two hundred because they want to fifty billions only they'll know the figure better in
cash. Now Google has billions in cash. They still are doing business today.
They still want more revenues today. So when we ask the question,
doesn't you have a spending problem or revenue problem? There is no country on
earth, even in Saudi Arabia that does not have a revenue problem. So
I hope people understand the question is tongue in cheek. We're not in any
way saying that oh they we we we we we shouldn't go and get revenues,
don't. We are trying to use just the you know, the use
of English cambridgements are asking me on DMS. It's just use of English.
How you say, oh do you have pepper? Things like that? We
we know what it were. We're saying Nigeria has got a revenue problem in
that it has to grow. It's GDP to revenues. Everybody knows that.
But the real question we're asking here is that what about the spending. Rarely
concern that if we grew our revenues tenfold, we are considered the nationalist budget's
gonna grow fiftyfold. That's our concern because I would factually, if you look
at National semil budget, it has grown over the years. Today the National
Semi budget is larger than eighteen states of the Federation. Eighteen states, so
if you take the budget, it is larger. So we're not in any
way saying that we have had We have enough revenue that if we if we
cut corruption today, if corruption was zero today, Niger cannot grow with a
fifteen trillion budget. Now that is not possible. But the fear is this,
This is why I put Niger on to pay taxes. If you go
and you pay taxes to the Federgo of Nigeria, you're gonna go to a
private jet, are gonna go to a year, are gonna go to SUVs.
That's why people don't want to pay. So we have we have the
revenue problem, but we want to make sure that if we solved that revenue
problem, that we don't have a spending problem. Right now, what we
see in front of us, which is clear, is that the spending problem
is more of a danger to the country than the revenue problem. If the
government is broke today, right there is still money from the private sector coming
in. But if the government is spending, if the government goes to it
and says we're gonna take away all the money from them account, the country
will stop functioning. That's the fear. So I just hope, hope that
we were just playing with words here to say, oh, spending problem.
If you're if you have a bucket and a bucket has a whole, and
you sneaking, would you now say, oh, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no no, I'm going to increase the
water flow. No, you plug the holes in the bucket. Before you
say you increase the water. You will put the tap off. You will
plug the holes. Then you put the tap back on to retain the wor
that has come to the bucket. You will say, does increasing flow of
the water so that the balance between what is escaping? I want to up
in the bucket. I'll take my bat to it. That would you look,
you'll be you'll be little a little lunacy so, but thanks so much
for those comments. Yeah, I mean we've got about ten minutes to round
up, guys, Thanks you so much. Every week coming we talk,
people hang out here for the l three hours talking about their calm of First
let's just start to wind down. Mister engineer Zick. We've got you on
top. Let's do Engineer Zick. Let's do a gum who will do tiwo?
Who will do sex? Will cause the day? So you guys,
you guys can do it nat or two. That will work just perfect.
So we have everyone on top speaking and then we'll go from there. Engineer
Zick, real quick, you've got the flow. If it's not, do's
go to tile Tai woman doctor t real quick, real quick, engineer go
ahead. A good evening, Yeah yeah, real quick. I I find
it need for have been listening from the world to speak been that on.
Every time I speak on this this, I always come up with one point
and it's something that so hots me in mind and it's about the cities in
mindset. It's a point that I always bring up. Nigerian has a spending
problem and it's a spending problem that leads to revenue problem. There's always revenue
problem. I believe that the problem is the citizens of the country. We
don't even know that their days over and I don't know, and we don't
defend it. We don't, we don't, I don't know. I believe
we don't know that they save over spending. Most people don't know that these
politicians are over spending their money. They don't care. As long as they
wake up, it's go back to sleep in the night, and that is
all. If the government are spending, well, you're creating roots that leads
to firms. You're creating giving contracts, the new contract. I'm not talking
of parted contracts. That's another part game on its own. If you want
to start going into contract and location in this country, if they're not giving
out part contracts, giving contract to politician, if they're giving the new contract,
people get to work from construction, they pay tax, you generate revenue,
you recycle the money, and you have a table economy at least.
But this problem is we have policians that only take money and bears with this
money. They don't do anything with it. And we are citizens, we
seat and we can't talk. We don't talk. I believe that is just
the major problem. The problem. It is far beyond the spending and it's
citizen mindset and it's not the key place we have to address. I appreciate
that, and I think you're spot on that spot on that. Yeah.
Everyone, if you have is between spending problem or revenue problem, I will
say has a spending problem. Revenue is not really a problem because independence,
I mean, Nigeria has been doing great, you know, but when we
begin to have irresponsible leaders, then the problem automatically manates. Coup plots,
you know, and all the adventures that are taking place over the decades,
and in Singapore started like Nigeria and fire. They are smaller than legals.
You don't even see them on the world map, but then they are to
create leaders. The first leader who was inquivalent of our lovers, they can
son, you know, was living in just a small house. Even to
today, if you go to seeing that I want to visit, you can
still see the small house was living. When our leaders live in comfort zones
and you do even okay, and I'm as well as ever seen and you
will come to your streets just to see yourself in or when up on their
parts. So when developed countries, you know, leaders many institutions. If
elections are there to take place today, who was your guardy that we're allowed,
you know, free have fair elections, you know, to to russhine
greatly. Does the world visions the years twenty years down the line? That's
number one. But I hate to talk about problems. Let's be pragmatic,
talk about solutions. You can you approach real quick? So you've got about
a minute to go through quick. Yeah, the can you approach is one
one one. When there has to be a revolution, a way to shame
leaders that truly and the change the system such that things will go the right
way. And again it's about the attitude sometimes, you know, let people
see that Tom and let these people know that they feel depend citizens field,
you know. But that said, I will, I will use the appreciate
that I hear you sucks X good everyone. Let me start. I don't
think there's any government in this world that has inexhaustible income, so that is
of revenue. I don't think that that's the problem. The biggest problem is
to spend the problem. And I think so by Nigerian standards. It's the
way our politics or our government is structure. Have im more always of the
opinion that it is too big in a way that it makes it very complex,
that it's inaccessible and reachable to the commodmer. I willways not on team.
We have to restructure our government back to lookal government, not even states.
Wheople just look back, says structure back to stay. Let's take government
to the people, take it down to local government. So I think if
local governments, local government is kind of more homogeneous. If your local government
is chairman is managing is managing your phone, people can easily reach in and
find a team and do all sorts of things done. Everybody's just looking at
that bug. So people are just go there to waste away phone. And
the lookers in every looks of this local government, most of them their voice
are not being heard by and they cannot do anything but it. So we
have to bring to the people. I hear, so let me get so
I start if I get Ugam in here as the last speaker for the close.
Ugam, you've got the floor, last speaker, and I hear you,
doctor, I take the governance back to the people. Then there to
the people is to counter them. There, Ugam, we've got the flow,
last last speaker, then we're run. Okay, thank you for this
opportunity to ear my views. I think listening here all of us can actually
recollectively that Nina has a spending problem. So I'm going to point an issue
something that all of us are overlooking. I think in the next twenty fifty
it's white fortunate that is will be the most better country in Africa and with
the issue for spending problem that will have Seriously, just if you can,
if you can actually imagine what will happen if you don't get by then then
secondly, with all the point being being spoken on by this as a all
of us can agree that you can talk about spending problems without talking about politics.
Like whatever is going into is about the politics or the politicians. So
again I think mostly the world we are actually missing is this country has to
be structured and again we have to do data has to come in in thens
of Okay, if you're putting this person up the at least the people supposed
to contry. But like, okay, let me say, if you're going
to appoint the maybe the ciby and governor for example, maybe you lease to
your candidates, then people can also food for person who has a credible record
and again the issue that will have in this country. Again, if I'm
just trying to round up, we don't have a goal, structure and continuation
culture whereby even if this passed administration that are left at least since will be
very coming of what to work with. You understand that problem can be.
I think I got you. We got a round up now, so I
appreciate you. Those are fantastic comments. Thanks for making them. Hey,
guys, thanks for hanging out here. Believe it or not, it's three
hours. We've been talking uh, the economy, public finance and of course
your own personal finance for the next last three hours. With all Nigeria's talking
about. If we have a spending problem or any problem. Of course,
the whole idea is to still and listening. Revenues are not ever going to
be enough, but we've got to get better with how we spend because be
more targeted how we spend that money. We've got to ensure that that one
era one plat one becomes eleven. That's the goal for Nigerian government. We
spend to stimulate the privatories to come in and consue that spending because we have
a large population to feed, and we really have that limited oil revenues,
but no oil revenues to spend it on. So let's get better. Lastly,
we've got to participate. Let's stop complaining too much. Let's participate in
the process. There are many ways to do it. That mentioned tracker,
track where money's going to see how it's been spent, hold your tax,
spend us to account. Don't fall back, don't say giving up. That's
what they want. Once you fall back, then the money, but of
course is going to be spent without any oversight. On that note, guys,
let me round up. My name is calu Aja'll see you guys here
next week. Again on that topic, we're gonna talk about your personal finances
and of course the governments and global finances as well. See you guys then,
guys, have a good week, love yourselves and please