WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.240 Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about 2 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:06.759 a way that you can help support the podcast. If you're not already, 3 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:10.800 we would really appreciate it if you guys went and reviewed us on Apple or 4 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:15.919 Spotify. Those reviews really help people find the podcast and help it get recognized, 5 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:19.160 and you know, if you've been enjoying the show, we really appreciate 6 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:23.960 your support. Another thing that you can do to support the channel is to 7 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:29.079 become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that started just five dollars 8 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:32.759 a month, and when you sign up, you get access to all of 9 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:36.399 our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. I mean, 10 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:41.640 we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, but this is the 11 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:47.719 biggest and best way that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if you'd 12 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:51.280 like to, and we really appreciate that. So go and check us out 13 00:00:51.359 --> 00:01:03.079 at patreon dot com. Slash the Teamhouse, Special Operations SP and I the 14 00:01:03.239 --> 00:01:15.159 Team House with Your Hopes, Jack Murphy and David Park. Hey folks, 15 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:19.480 welcome to episode two hundred and sixty six of The Team House. I'm Jack 16 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:23.400 Murphy here with Dave Park and our guest on tonight's show is Jim Shorten. 17 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:30.400 Jim served in US Special Forces, worked in mac Vie SAG doing cross border 18 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:34.120 operations during the Vietnam War, and then he went on to have a very 19 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:38.200 interesting career as an Air Force PAARA rescue men and continue to have an interesting 20 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:42.239 career after he retired from the military, going to med school and becoming a 21 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:46.439 doctor. So, Jim, thank you very much for joining us on the 22 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:51.159 show today. Oh my pleasure. Thanks for asking me absolutely man. So 23 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:53.280 I want to start off asking you a little bit about your origin story, 24 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:57.719 about kind of like how you grew up and what kind of propelled you towards 25 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:02.799 military service. Well, I had kind of a kind of a rough childhood, 26 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:06.799 you know, I had I had a stepfather that used to, you 27 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:09.159 know, slap us around a lot. But I was born in Liverpool, 28 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:13.759 England, and came to the States when I was probably the final time was 29 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:20.439 around eleven years old, and moved all over the country and my mom remarried 30 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:23.080 a guy named Jones. That's where my name, Jim Jones came in. 31 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:25.560 If you look at my military it's all Jim Jones. And so when I 32 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.759 got out of the military. After twenty years, I went ahead and changed 33 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:34.360 my name back to Jim Shartan. I'm a junior to carry on my real 34 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:38.800 father's name. So but then, yeah, when I when I was about 35 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:43.840 I guess I was about sixteen or fifteen years old, I ran away from 36 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:49.039 home, and when I became seventeen, I decided I wanted to join the 37 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:53.840 Navy to go see the world. So what I had to do is I 38 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:57.080 had to become a citizen because I wasn't a citizen. I became a citizen 39 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.360 a sixty four. So I did that, and then from the Navy, 40 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:04.120 you know, they went and I stirred. Twenty two months in the Navy 41 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:07.560 over in Vietnam, I learned. I learned I had a working knowledge of 42 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:10.840 the Vietnamese language from a girlfriend I had there. And then then I decided 43 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:14.360 to go into the Army Special Force. I was going to go into the 44 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:17.479 Navy seals, but then I decided to, uh, you know, that 45 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:21.479 song came out only three out of one hundred and make it. So I 46 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:25.439 went ahead and joined the Army instead. And it wasn't it wasn't very hard 47 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:29.280 for me. I was a gymnast in high school, so I was in 48 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:31.199 really good shape. So and I stayed in shape. I did two hundred 49 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:35.319 push ups, twound of setups, two to jump jacks every morning. And 50 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:38.159 when I was when I left the Army and went into the pair. Oh, 51 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:38.919 when I left the Army, I came back to the States. I 52 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:44.719 was underwater operations. The whole team went down to Key West and went through 53 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:47.840 Scooba School and then we came back. Then Ian I was teaching a pair 54 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:52.680 of rescue guys foreign weapons and night vision devices and stuff. And I didn't 55 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.479 know who these guys were. So I went out and partied with them a 56 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:59.719 couple of times, and then I went on down and talked to their their 57 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:03.479 base at the one twenty ninth Air Special Rescue Recovery Service, and I decided 58 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.479 to leave the Army and go into the Air Force. So I did before 59 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:11.319 before we jumped too far ahead. I want to go back to you know, 60 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:14.479 your time in the Navy, that initial state you said you had service 61 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:16.399 in Vietnam there as well. I mean, can you tell us what that 62 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:21.920 that initial enlistment in the Navy was like and what they had you doing when 63 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:28.800 I first won the Navy. It's kind of funny, But I got this 64 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:30.839 duty. After training, I can't I don't even remember how long it was. 65 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:38.800 It was sixteen weeks or something. I went to San Diego for a 66 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:42.680 boot camp and so when I left there, I got orders to go to 67 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.120 Litchfield Park Naval Air Station in Phoenix, Arizona, or Litchfield Park, Arizona, 68 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:51.759 just outside of Phoenix. And so when I was there. When I 69 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:55.839 first got to the base, I told everybody I was a dental technician, 70 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:00.720 but it had me actually down as a storekeeper. So I'm telling everybody this. 71 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:03.399 You know I'm a dental tech. You know I'm gonna be working in 72 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:08.560 the dental office. So finally they said, just go find a place and 73 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:11.959 crash for the night and we'll see monday morning. Because it was like on 74 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:15.639 a late Friday afternoon. So I go down and I start shooting pool and 75 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:18.600 they had this massive arms and it was being a It was a real small 76 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:23.360 base, so everybody was wearing Sivenian clothes. Well the massive of arms, 77 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:26.720 make sure nobody fights on the pool tables and stuff like that. He was 78 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:30.240 a dental tech on the base. So I told him what the truth was 79 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:32.160 and he goes, well, I'll see what I can do. So when 80 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.000 you first go on a base, you know, you got to go around 81 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:38.120 like the medical, the dental, and personnel and all this stuff. So 82 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:42.720 when I went into the dental office and they checked my teeth, his name 83 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:46.560 was Dave Johnson, and he said to Captain Smith was a Navy captain, 84 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:49.759 you know, like a colonel. And he goes, he goes, this 85 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:51.560 is the thing I was telling you about you, sir, and that he 86 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:57.120 wants to be a dental tech. So Captain Smith asked me about the dental 87 00:05:57.199 --> 00:05:59.360 stuff, you know, like he put a tray out and asked me the 88 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:01.759 name off all of the instruments, and I rattled it all off because I 89 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:05.240 studied. I wanted to be a dentist, so I studied all that stuff. 90 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.920 So he goes, I'll have you in here in a couple of days. 91 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:15.199 Wow. So I actually became a dental tech. And so after so 92 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:20.839 after after a Captain Smith retired, we had this commander and I know his 93 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:26.399 son. His son is a locksmith up in Tucson, but his dad passed 94 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:29.600 away. But anyway, I wasn't school trained as a dental tech, so 95 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:31.240 he didn't want me in the office, so he booted me out of the 96 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:35.560 office and I became a lifeguard, and he always wanted me back in the 97 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:38.399 office, but he didn't want to, you know, he didn't want to 98 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.519 lose face, so he wouldn't say anything. But he got some guy that 99 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:44.199 was school trained, and the guy didn't know his butt from a hole in 100 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:47.759 the ground, you know. So anyway, from there, I went to 101 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:51.720 Norfolk, Virginia for a pre commissioning detail for the AGM R two, which 102 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:56.959 is the USS Arlington. It was an old aircraft carry and they put antennas 103 00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:01.519 on the ship for communications on the flight deck, and that took forever to 104 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:05.240 get commissioned. So while I was there, I worked on tugboats for like 105 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:09.759 three or four weeks, and I really loved tugboat duty. Really hard work, 106 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:12.720 but a great bunch of guys, good to work with, and so 107 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:15.839 I did that and then they had a levy come down saying they were looking 108 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:17.600 for guys that wanted to go on a ship. So I went on the 109 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:21.399 USS Denabala or Danabla, I don't really I never knew how to say the 110 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:26.600 word, but it was an A f fifty six was a refrigeration ship. 111 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:29.399 So we went over to the Mediterranean on a cruise. I was on it 112 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:32.519 for a couple of months. So went over to Mediterranean. We replenished all 113 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:36.040 these ships with you know, with supplies and food and stuff like that. 114 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:40.480 And so when I came back to the States from there, I got off 115 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:43.519 the ship and they were looking for people that wanted to go to Vietnam. 116 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.720 And I'm going like, hey, where's Vietnam. You know, I've never 117 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:50.240 heard of the place. And this one chief flips at me and he goes, 118 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:54.279 we're fighting a war in Vietnam. This is for sure duty. I 119 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:56.720 said, yeah, i'll go. He goes, this is a war. 120 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:59.399 I go, look, I'll go. I said. My dad served. 121 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:01.959 My dad my father was Royal Navy in the British during World War Two. 122 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:09.000 So I volunteered to go. So they sent me to counterinsurgency school and survival 123 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:11.680 school and that sort of thing. And then I went ahead and went on 124 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:15.560 over to Danang, Vietnam. And I liked it. There's so much. 125 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:18.519 I stayed there for twenty two months. I had a girlfriend. She taught 126 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:20.319 me how to speak a lot of Vietnamese. I had a good working knowledge 127 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:24.720 of it, and so that helped me with special forces. That was mostly 128 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:31.560 Marines in Danang. Yeah, it was mostly all marines there, and I 129 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:33.399 worked on the piers. I worked with the CBS. I was a seaman, 130 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.879 but they were so shorthanded on men that I worked with the CBS and 131 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:41.120 we worked eighteen hours on, six hours off, no days off, geez. 132 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:45.000 And we did that for a while and then finally they started getting more 133 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.080 people coming over, and then we started to get like one day a week 134 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:52.639 or two days a week off soon time. Like when you started your initial 135 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:58.639 training and then you know you're you're slotted for at logs right, or and 136 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:03.480 you go to dental tech and then do you have a rate or are you 137 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:07.240 like non rated and you're just like volunteering for whatever jobs come up. Yes, 138 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:11.240 I was non rated. Say I was a storekeeper. I had to 139 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:13.639 take all my tests in storekeeping. So I took all my tests up to 140 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:18.480 E five. I passed all the tests and everything. But you know, 141 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:20.000 in the Navy, you gotta wait for a slot to open up before you 142 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:24.039 go in. Yeah, and there's so many storekeepers, you know. I 143 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:26.879 spent three years seven months in the Navy. I was like what they call 144 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:31.000 a kiddy cruiser. When you're join when you're seventeen. You get out when 145 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.600 you turn twenty one. So I did three years seven months in the Navy, 146 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:39.000 and uh i, uh, I passed all my tests, but the 147 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:43.679 whole time I came out as an E three. Thats my highest rank in 148 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:48.120 the Navy. Three. Yeah, yeah, it was a seaman. So 149 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:50.720 and I worked with the CBS. H I had the white stripes. You 150 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:54.679 know, CBS have blue stripes. The snipes that work in there, you 151 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.639 know they have red and all that aviation have green. So uh yeah, 152 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.559 that's the That's pretty much it. And what did you do while you were 153 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:07.519 with the CEABS. I did a lot of shoring up ships and stuff like 154 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:09.559 that. I drove trucks. I used to drive from De Nang down the 155 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:15.120 Chuli and stuff like that, and then back and forth loading it takes it, 156 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:20.440 supplies, splicing cables. I got injured. I had a truck blown 157 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:24.799 off the road. In nineteen sixty six, they the enemy dropped some rockets 158 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:30.679 milimeters rockets into the Air Force base there. It and it they hit the 159 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.840 bomb storage. The bomb storage was. When it went up, it was 160 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:37.840 so furious that it lifted up a five ton dump truck over some trees and 161 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.240 dropped it into two story burbs. Wow, but everybody was out of the 162 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:43.879 barrack, so I knewod he was hurt in it. But it blew my 163 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:46.360 truck off the road and I went out the door and the truck rolled over 164 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:48.840 on me. So but I mean, I was okay. I was going 165 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.840 in to get people out of the area, trying to get him out of 166 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.159 there, get him in the safety area. So but yeah, that that 167 00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:00.919 was pretty much it. So and after I got injured, stuff, they 168 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:03.159 had me splicing cables, you know for the MIC boats and U boats and 169 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:07.240 where the ramp comes down. So I was flacing the five eighths cable and 170 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:11.639 three quarter inch cables for the ramps. And so you said that initially, 171 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:16.159 like I'd like to know you you've somewhere it got into young Jim's mind that 172 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:20.879 maybe you want to do this special ops thing. You said you'd heard about 173 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.600 the seals, and then the Barry Saddler song got you tell us like how 174 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:28.720 that all came about. Well, when I was you know, back when 175 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:31.559 I was in they they didn't really have seals. They were just now they 176 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:35.519 were just starting to come out. Yeah. What they had was UDT Underwater 177 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:39.759 Demolition teams. So and when I used to go to it was Camp Tenshaw 178 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:43.080 was the main camp, even though I hardly ever stayed there. I used 179 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:48.679 to stay downtown with my girlfriend. But the they had UDT guys there, 180 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:54.399 and I didn't know everything they were doing, but we used them. Like 181 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:56.440 if we were loading a barge and a bomb came off a cable and went 182 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:00.600 in the wire, the UTTU guys come in picking up, hook it up, 183 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:03.960 and we haul it back out again. But uh, but when I 184 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.159 went to have chow or something like that, you know, in the mess 185 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:11.080 hall, I see these guys walking around bandages and their arms and slings when 186 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:13.200 they caught a bullet the shoulder and all kinds of stuff, and I'm going, 187 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:16.720 you know, who are these masks men? You know? So I 188 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:20.120 started learning a little bit about ud T and the seal teams, and I 189 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:24.559 wanted to be a seal. So but then that song came out, and 190 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:26.960 I'm going, I can do three out of one hundred. I can do 191 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:33.279 that for people who might not know you're talking about the Seal or the song 192 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:39.639 the Green Beret. Uh yeah, ballad, right, yeah, yeah. 193 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:43.559 I think a lot of guys went on the Special Forces after hearing that song. 194 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:46.200 Yeah, and so, so you had to do a like a lateral 195 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:50.799 inner service transfer to the Army and and start that. Well, I I 196 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:54.120 finished my my hitch in the Navy. So when I got out of the 197 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:58.639 Navy, I wanted to go in the Army Special Forces. So I took 198 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:03.960 my bad test as a civilian. But the interesting thing is I had a 199 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:07.679 GED. I took a GED and if you ever heard of the evelyn Wood 200 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.320 speed reading course, I took it from actually from evelyn Wood, and that 201 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:16.039 did that when I was in Arizona. So, but when I wanted to 202 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.960 go into Special Forces, you had to have a high school diploma. You 203 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.519 couldn't get you couldn't go into the GED. You can get in the Army, 204 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:26.440 but not special Forces. So what I did is I went to San 205 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:30.600 Diego High School and I said, look, I said this, I told 206 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:33.919 my whole situation. I need to get a diploma. And they said, 207 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:37.399 well, if you take California history and government, we'll go ahead and give 208 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.879 you a diploma. So I was in school, probably not even a week, 209 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:45.679 and they came into the classroom because I'm like twenty one years old with 210 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:48.879 all these teeny boppers in there, right, So they came into the room 211 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:50.600 and they said, we want to talk to in the office, and they 212 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:52.799 just said, we're just going to go ahead and give you a diploma. 213 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:56.080 So I got my diploma, and so then I went down. I went 214 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:01.879 into Special Forces and I went straight to I went to ford Ord for basic 215 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:09.240 training, and then I went to Advanced Infantry Training and I got the I 216 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.519 was the outstanding training of the cycle, uh for the for the a I 217 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.799 T. So I got that. I got the little trophy and stuff. 218 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.759 And from there they sent me to a jump school. But when I was 219 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.000 at Litchville Park in Arizona, you know, I started flying, air flying 220 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:28.960 of skydiving when I was there, so jumping was nothing for me, you 221 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:31.919 know, to go to jump school. So I went ahead and went to 222 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:37.519 jump school. Finished that. Then I went up to Fort Bragg you know, 223 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.440 for for s F training and they I finished Phase one back then that 224 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:43.360 was different than the Q course of what they have today. It was Phase 225 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.519 one. Then you go to your MS training whichever it is, and then 226 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.879 you go to phase two and then you get your orders and go so, 227 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.639 but after phase one, they put me in communications and I just couldn't get 228 00:14:54.639 --> 00:15:00.360 that diddy dum dumb diddy fast enough. So what I did, Yeah, 229 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:03.639 they morse code, so I told, I told the instructor. I said, 230 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:05.320 look, I said, don't lose me. I said, I'm good 231 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.000 in mathematics. I said, I worked with the CBS, I got a 232 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.720 working knowledge of Vietnamese language, I said, put me in engineers or something. 233 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.799 So they took me out out of Communications and I had to wait for 234 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:18.320 the next class to come through. And then I went to engineers and it 235 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:22.799 was a piece of cake for me. So I went through the engineer training 236 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:26.120 and then phase two was was a piece of cake too. It wasn't that 237 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:28.799 hard for me. So and I mean I had when I was a little 238 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:31.759 kid. I was raised up and well after I left England, we traveled 239 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:35.639 all over the country. But I tell everybody, I was raised in Colorado 240 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:39.639 and my stepfather was a hunter, and I used to go out, you 241 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:41.360 know, I used to go out in the woods all the time. I 242 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:45.480 knew how to be stealth and everything, so that all helped out quite a 243 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:48.159 bit. Yeah and yeah, I mean I actually would bury myself in the 244 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.879 leaves and stuff, and the instructors would walk right by me and you wouldn't 245 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:58.039 see me like that. You make it through SF training and then you know 246 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:03.519 where do you get assigned. I went to Vietnam into the Trang where the 247 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:10.039 headquarters was, and I went to the first sergeant or the sergeant major there, 248 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:11.320 and I said, I said, I'd like to go to Danang because 249 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:15.559 that's where our station with the Navy, and I knew the town pretty good 250 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.720 and stuff. And while I was he said, I'll see what I can 251 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:23.000 do. And during that time, another guy comes walking in. And oh 252 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:27.399 before that, I met a guy from India that I knew from Danang when 253 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.440 I was up there, and he left Danang and went down the Trang and 254 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:34.960 he said, Danang wasn't the same anymore. I mean it, it was 255 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:41.679 totally different. And so a guy comes walking into this combat orientation course, 256 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.960 the cock course that they had there. It's like an indectrination to Vietnam kind 257 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:49.279 of thing. So I'm sitting at the bar and the guy comes walking in 258 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.200 and he goes, hey, I'm going home. I said, we're we 259 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.000 stationed. He goes out station at eighty five or two one of the best 260 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:59.519 duty stations you can get, and so I said, he talk to me 261 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:02.679 about it, So he did so. Then I next day I ran down 262 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:07.279 the headquarters and I talked to this guy named Sergeant Micah, Mike Micah, 263 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:10.960 and he was, you know, giving out orders and stuff for where people 264 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.720 went. And so I talked to him and I said, you know, 265 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.519 I'd like to go to A five or two and he goes, well, 266 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.720 if anybody's going to a five with two, I'm going to go. So 267 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:25.319 anyway, about day later, he comes walking into the bar and he goes, 268 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:27.400 hey Jones, I go what he goes, We're both going to a 269 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:32.799 file two. So he cut us both orders. I WoT A five two, 270 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:36.240 and when I was there, they put me on this little outpost called 271 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:40.839 sue Yao. Now, a five two came directly under headquarters. It didn't 272 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:44.640 come under a BC team or anything like that. It came directly under headquarters. 273 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:47.119 And most A teams, you know, had twelve guys on it, 274 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:49.799 but uh A five or two had about fifty guys on it. And what 275 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:53.319 they were is they were security from the Trang up in the hills. If 276 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:56.880 you were in the Trang and you looked them in the hills. You saw 277 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:00.279 these little outposts out there. They had one American on all these outs post 278 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.880 except for one. There was two places where they had more than one American. 279 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:08.720 But the they were the security from the train. And I got an 280 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.079 now post that was way over on the other side of the mountains as the 281 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.039 first one out and it was called su Yao. And I had a CID 282 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:19.680 CIDG company, a Sylvan a regular defense group, and I had one hundred 283 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.680 and thirty three guys with me there and I was the only American. But 284 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:26.839 they would send Yeah, they would send guys down the every once in a 285 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:30.640 while because I was getting hit about it every one and a half days by 286 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.200 the enemy. They shoot into the camp to see if you're away, kind 287 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:38.759 of stuff like that, just test your camp. And so the guys would 288 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.640 come down once in a while and then they would go back. And the 289 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.640 Mondays was my day off. So what I did is they I'd get it. 290 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.480 I had a pickup truck, or they come down to jeep. I'd 291 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:51.240 leave the truck there, I'd drake the jeep and I'd go back to camp, 292 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:53.000 take my shower, change my clothes, and i'd go down the train 293 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:57.519 and you know, spend the night and I'd parked the jeep at the headquarter 294 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.200 and take a Jitney or something, you know, a Sicklow or something like 295 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.680 that going downtown. And I had a couple of girlfriends down there, so 296 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.640 I just hang out with them. We'd go have dinner, go to a 297 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.759 movie or something, and go back to the last You weren't like really on 298 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:14.440 in O d A. It sounds like that they just kind of no baptism 299 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:18.839 by fire. They put you out there. Yeah, you know that first 300 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.799 time I was on a real a team was when I was in the reserves 301 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:26.640 with the twelfth Group and it was underwater operations. Because after that initial stint 302 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.160 in the trag, Like, how how did mac vie SAG come about for 303 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:34.559 you? Uh? Well, they turned the they turned the eight team over 304 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:38.279 to the regional Popular Forces, the rough Puffs. And when they did that, 305 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:42.599 Uh, I volunteered to go to C and C. And so they 306 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:47.200 sent me to CCC up in Kantom. And you, I mean, I 307 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:49.480 guess you heard about SOG and the front from uh being so close to the 308 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:53.400 headquarters. Uh No, we knew, we knew from going from training group. 309 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:59.640 Oh really Okay, we all knew C n C and like I remember 310 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.400 start Orly and Frank's were there, and really I remember really telling me he 311 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.160 says, whatever you do, don't go to C and C. He says, 312 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:11.119 you get yourself killed. A go to an a team, get a 313 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:15.039 little bit of combat under your belt first and before you go there. Because 314 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:17.759 a lot of the guys that were killed in SAG, a lot of them 315 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:22.000 were like their first second mission. Yeah you know, yeah, we had 316 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:23.680 a guy that came with us on one on my first mission up there, 317 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:27.119 and this is the next mission. The whole team got wiped out. Yeah, 318 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:32.599 so tell us. So you get put in CCC Command and Control Central. 319 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:36.400 Tell us where that was when For folks out there who don't know what 320 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:40.880 your mission was, well, it was a Clindestine mission. What did you 321 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:42.920 When you first go in there, they take your ID card, your dog 322 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:47.000 tags and everything, and then you take your shirt off because you got your 323 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:48.440 rank on your shirt. You take your shirt off, you go into a 324 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:53.400 room and you're sitting there and they give you a hint of what you're going 325 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:56.799 to be doing. You know, you're going to be running clandestine operations. 326 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.279 They're very dangerous. That kind of thing. They didn't tell you where that 327 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:03.759 was. And then they'd say, if anybody wants to leave, leave now. 328 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.640 And most of the guys stayed there, so so I said, yeah, 329 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.400 yeah, I want to stay there. So what they did is they 330 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:15.480 put me an Archie, Delaware and it was Dan Sturr was the one zero 331 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.839 of the team and he was building up the team again. I I, 332 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.839 you know, to this day, I don't know why Dan was by himself 333 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:26.160 and that team. I don't know what happened. I need to talk to 334 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:30.160 him. I think he's on vacation right now. But anyway, so he 335 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.920 made me his assistant team leader because I had quite a few missions when I 336 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:37.480 was on the A team. In fact, when I was on the that 337 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:40.880 A team at eight five or two on Suyao, I turned away a ground 338 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:44.720 attack. They tried to overrun my camp and I turned him away. I 339 00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:49.279 had a well fortified camp. So so when anyway, when I was there 340 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:53.759 with Dan on Archie Delaware, we went on one mission. We had another 341 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:59.480 guy, Gary Harnin, and he came with us on it. And then 342 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.400 when we came back again after the mission, we almost got captured. It 343 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:06.400 was it was a pretty rough mission. They were supposed to put us in 344 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:08.759 outside of a regiment battalion. We were supposed to go in and try and 345 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:12.079 gather intelligence. And what they did is they put us in between them, 346 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:15.519 and so the enemy let us land and they tried to capture us. So 347 00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:21.880 we finally about three days later, you know, the CEO just kept saying, 348 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:26.240 break contact, continue mission. So but three days later we finally convinced 349 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:30.039 them to get us out of there. And so Dan blew an abte's on 350 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:32.480 a tree. That's where you blow a tree and it's still connected, you 351 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:34.519 know, so you can't move it. And so then the first chopper came 352 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.720 in being assistant. I got on the first chopper. Dan's always he's you 353 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:41.240 know, the team. There's always the first in, last out. So 354 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:44.839 anyway, I ran up the tree, had two mote yards with me, 355 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:49.279 the the mountain people that were mercenaries working with us. So two of those 356 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.319 two guys jumped in the helicopter. I ran the tree. I'm getting in 357 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.039 the helicopter and the chopper is taken off. I'm holding onto the skin. 358 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:02.000 Oh, I said, doesn't anybody see me here? Chopper's taken off and 359 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.920 the moneyards trying to tell the gunner to look down, and because he doesn't 360 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:08.480 speak English that well, so anyway, he looked. The gunner finally looks 361 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.240 down. He gets on the horn. He goes, hey, we got 362 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.640 a guy hanging on the skid. So anyway, they reached down one of 363 00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:18.039 the other yard laid over their legs and they reached way down by the skid 364 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:19.519 there and they grabbed my arm and I just let go and they pulled me 365 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:23.799 in. So that I was lucky. I could have killed my first mission's 366 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:30.480 bit. So Dan quit the quit running missions after that. He had a 367 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.640 lot of missions and that was a pretty scary mission. But so he decided, 368 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.240 you know, maybe it's time to just hang up the you know, 369 00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:40.640 the whatever, you know, your hat and go on do something else. 370 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:45.160 Jim, I'm sorry, I apologize to interrupt. I just want to do 371 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.720 this ad read real quick and then we can we jump right back into it. 372 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:52.640 Okay. 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Your your team leader on Artie. Uh 405 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:32.559 it was Doublaware, right, he decided an assistant team leader. I was 406 00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:36.599 assistant team leader. Then Dan quit, Yeah quick, right, And so 407 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:41.839 then I'm walking across the compound and the first start and said, Jim, 408 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:44.240 how would you like to take over Archie, Delaware? I go, I 409 00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.240 just ran one mission, you know, and he goes, well, we 410 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:51.359 think you're ready. And I found out when I was talking to Dance Sturr 411 00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:53.319 a couple of years ago at the Special Opster Union. He goes, yeah, 412 00:26:53.359 --> 00:27:00.200 he says, I recommended you. Oh wow, thanks buddy. So 413 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.839 but so that I became the one zero, and then Gary Harnet went on 414 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.960 to Artie, Pennsylvania, and the whole team got that they blew the chopper 415 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:11.880 out of the air and they were all killed. It was really sad. 416 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.440 He was a good guy. They were all good guys. And so anyway, 417 00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:19.599 I had to get a one a one one assistant team leader, and 418 00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:26.960 I got a guy by the name of Homer Hungerford. And Homer was he 419 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:29.519 had when I knew him. He had seven and a half years of combat. 420 00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:33.519 He served in World War two, Korean War, and in Vietnam. 421 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.960 Wow. So yeah, and and then he decided he owned a hotel in 422 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.200 Hawaii, and he was kind of like your Ernest Hemingway kind of guy, 423 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.440 looked just like him too. But Homer was really just a great guy, 424 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:48.160 and a lot of guys didn't want to run with him because he was a 425 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.000 little older. And I asked Homer, I said, you know, Homo, 426 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:55.359 would you like to be my one one, my assistant team leader? 427 00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:56.680 And he goes, yeah, because I want to get out in the field. 428 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.839 So I said, look great, So he became my my assistant team 429 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.440 leader. And he was good. I mean, they had a wealth of 430 00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.599 knowledge because you know, you know CCN. I think there's a story there 431 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.200 that Till talks about where they had one guy that coward coward and they started 432 00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:17.920 shooting. You got stared. That was when. Yeah. Yeah, So 433 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.480 I knew that Homer already had experience in combat, and I knew he wasn't 434 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:25.839 gonna freak out, but that that was worth That's that's worth a lot right 435 00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:32.119 there. Absolutely. So anyway, so I took over the team and the 436 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:34.680 heck, I think I can't. I think I had a couple of linear 437 00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:37.920 missions, you know, linary recon just going through trying to find out what's 438 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:42.240 going on there. Did a couple of road watch missions where you go up 439 00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:45.640 on the Hoachman Trail and you just count the trucks, go by Cray to 440 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.759 see what's inside him. They usually try to get those missions going when there's 441 00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:52.000 a full moon, so you can see a little bit in there. This 442 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:59.079 was all pardon, this was all in Laos, Yeah, Laos and Cambodia. 443 00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:03.200 Yeah. And so then then I had a bright light mission. Well, 444 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.240 I had a bright light mission with Artie Illinois. Uh it was Steve 445 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:11.680 Keefer was the team leader for RT Illinois. But he was on a thirty 446 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.880 day leave and so they asked me if I wouldn't mind taking the RT Illinois 447 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:19.720 up to Docta. It was our launch site and stand down for bright light. 448 00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:22.799 And a bright light mission is when a team gets in trouble or for 449 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:27.319 jet crashes, whatever it needs or a body you have to go in get 450 00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:33.119 a body out. Uh, So they would send the team in, so 451 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:36.000 you're gonna you know that bright light's are the most dangerous mission, so you 452 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:40.799 know you're going to go into heavy firefight. So anyway they asked me, 453 00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:42.319 I said, yeah, I'll go over and talk to the team and you 454 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:45.640 know, let him get to know me a little bit and then we'll we'll 455 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:48.759 pack up my head up there. So the choppers took us up the Doctau 456 00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:53.240 and as soon as we got there, a they had a team that got 457 00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:57.160 in trouble and I think he had one or two guys killed. They got 458 00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:00.599 they got the bodies out, or I think they I think they had to 459 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.519 leave one body there. And then when they were coming out on rope, 460 00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.359 they were coming out on strings of sable rig one hundred and twenty foot ropes. 461 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:11.400 So when they were coming out on those ropes, a bullet or something 462 00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:12.920 hit a rope, but the rope broke and one of the guys fell to 463 00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:17.400 his death. It was one of them, So he fell to his death, 464 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:18.359 and they want us to go in there and get his body out there 465 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.200 in case he had any intel on him, cause you you know, because 466 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:26.279 you know that there was nobody's supposed to be in Laus Cambodia. So I 467 00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:30.920 asked him the situation and everything and how many enemies, and they estimated around 468 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.240 three hundred and fifty enemy they got hit with. So I said, well, 469 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:37.359 I don't have time for two helicopters. I said, what I'm gonna 470 00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:41.680 do is I'm just gonna take one helicopter. And at that time, Steve 471 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:44.920 Keeber came up on the helicopters and he got off the helicopter and I go, 472 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:45.920 Steve, what are you doing here? He goes, they just got 473 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.119 back from leave And I told him. I says, well, we got 474 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:51.319 a bright light mission. You want to go. I mean, I can 475 00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:53.039 just see the wheels turning. Damn, I just got back from leaving and 476 00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:56.599 I'm gonna go die, you know. And then it didn't help matters when 477 00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:00.200 I said, I'm just taking two other guys and myself, you know. 478 00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:03.720 So because there's four ropes, and I had to leave one rope open for 479 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:07.440 the body so we would ahead. We flew in, were repelled in, 480 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:11.400 and they couldn't get us on the ground that there was triple canopy, you 481 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:14.920 know, it was really high. So the chopper just came down, just 482 00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:18.680 started mowing down the jungle trying to get us down on the ground. So 483 00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:21.559 we got on the ground. We unhooked, you know, because there's stable 484 00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:25.079 rigs that you're you're repelling down on, you know, not the stable rig 485 00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:26.720 but the rope, you know, and it's got a bag at the bottom 486 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:32.319 of it. You can't just you know, jump on. Yeah. So 487 00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:36.440 we got on the ground, we unhooked, and the Cobra gunship flew overhead 488 00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:38.200 and he goes, hey, my code name was the Wild Carrot because I 489 00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.119 had really bright red hair, and he goes, hey, Carrot, follow 490 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.200 me. So we go up this hill and I could see the rope in 491 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.079 the tree where it came down. It whipped and wrapped around a branch, 492 00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:51.680 and I could see it. And we dug the guy up and told him 493 00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:53.279 to come and get us, and we can hear the enemy coming. You 494 00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:56.200 can hear him streaming and yelling. Because you know, they didn't care if 495 00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.720 we knew where they were or not. They just come running up the hill 496 00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:02.480 trying to get us. So they came overhead, they dropped the ropes, 497 00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:07.039 we hooked the body up, the other guys up, they hooked me up, 498 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.799 and then they just started getting pulling us up. So when they pull 499 00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:14.279 us up, when we got about halfway through the triple canopy, we we 500 00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:16.839 could see the enemy coming but they're all shooting at the helicopter because when they 501 00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:21.440 get the helicopter, they got all of us, right. So, but 502 00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:22.839 the chopper took a lot of hits, but he managed to get out of 503 00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:27.960 there. He pulled us up and got out. And you know, I'm 504 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:30.480 just I'm just sitting there saying, you know, I could hear the bullets 505 00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:32.839 whizzing by, you know, but they weren't breaking the soundberry because they're shooting 506 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:37.039 up, you know, they slowed down a little bit, but so I 507 00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:38.759 could hear all that. And then the brass is falling down on us, 508 00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:45.559 and an a whee skyraider came right underneath me, just like fifty feet underneath 509 00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:47.599 me, and he just waves at me, you know, like like this, 510 00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:52.680 you know, and he was he's firing rockets with flaschetts and everything, 511 00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:58.079 and you could see the white smoke when it leaves the the It was an 512 00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.519 whin he skyraider. So when he first left this sky raider, you can 513 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:02.559 see the white smoke. But when he gets halfway to the ground, you 514 00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:06.920 get this puff of big orange smoke and it just blows all like thousands of 515 00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:08.680 flesh sets out there. Wow. So that day we got out of there 516 00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:10.519 and I'm getting you know, Dear God, get us out of here. 517 00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:14.519 Man. That was a freaking mission. But none of us got hurt, 518 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:16.319 you know. We got out of there and we got back to doc To 519 00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:22.759 And there was one that you shared a picture with me where you guys were 520 00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:24.839 able to actually do a prisoner snatch, which I know was a huge thing 521 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:30.480 for SOG. You guys were actually successful and nabbing a few all the I 522 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:35.200 took around fifteen prisoners when I was in Vietnam. I didn't take any in 523 00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:38.359 Laus or Cambodia. I wanted to grab one one time, but I was 524 00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:45.440 strap hanging on another team and Joe Vanderger had the team, and so I 525 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:49.000 went out with him and we decided to take a break. We were doing 526 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.440 a linear recon and we're just we're just sitting there on the ground and we 527 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.599 didn't know but we were only a couple of feet from a trail. Because 528 00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:59.759 the jungles so thick, we didn't get to the trail yet and we didn't 529 00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:01.960 know the trailer. So we're there and all of a sudden we can hear 530 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:06.240 this voice, you know, guy speaking and you see him and they walked 531 00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:09.639 like not even three feet four feet away from me, just walks right by 532 00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:13.119 me. And I'm looking at and you know when you when your heart's beating, 533 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:15.000 your body's shaking like this, you know. And I'm sitting there going, 534 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.119 man, these guys, I'm just waiting for the bullets to go through 535 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:20.519 me, you know. But they just walked right on by, just walked 536 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:22.400 right and I wanted to get up and grab one. There was there was 537 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.000 three of them that walked by us, and I figured we could take two 538 00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:28.519 guys out and take one of the guys or take them all, you know, 539 00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:31.679 and what I would have done, But Joe said no, He said, 540 00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:35.519 we don't know who's behind him. And I figured I would have taken 541 00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:37.639 it. I would have taken a chance. But he was the team leader 542 00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:42.519 on that one. So but the yeah, I would have just put them 543 00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:45.360 on stable rigs and just had them haul them back by themselves. Just tie 544 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:47.079 them up, blindfold them, take them back. Yeah, they're probably not 545 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:50.760 going anywhere. Well, they'll hung up on the strings. Yeah, they're 546 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:52.400 not going to go anywhere. And the guys are going to be out there 547 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:57.360 with weapons anyway in case anything happens. So and they're not gonna be able 548 00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:00.800 to untie themselves and get off that stable. Rig touro on a stable where 549 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:04.320 you can't get off it until you're on the ground because those hooks are way 550 00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:08.280 up here, way up high, so we have them on here on here, 551 00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:13.719 but it pulls way up and then that bag that comes down has these 552 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:16.280 straps that come down with the hooks on them, so you can't really get 553 00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:22.519 to them. So but anyways, that that that was that mission, and 554 00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.119 you see where can we go from there? We'll tell us some of the 555 00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:29.039 other ones that were where you did take some prisoners. Uh those were in 556 00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:32.760 Vietnam. And when I was when I was at Suyao on that outpost, 557 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.480 we knew there was a hospital up on the hill because one of one of 558 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:44.159 the other camps up just just you see it would be it would be north 559 00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:47.800 of me. There was a camp up there that got overrun and uh I 560 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:52.679 went in as a reaction force to it, and it was pretty nasty. 561 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:55.559 There was a whole bunch of everybody was It was a mess. I mean, 562 00:35:55.960 --> 00:35:59.920 you know, enemy blown in half and heads blown off, and our 563 00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:04.760 arms and legs gone. It was horrible. But but we went up there. 564 00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:07.599 We knew there was a hospital up there, and that's where these guys 565 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:10.239 were taking their wounded after a battle. So what I wanted to do is 566 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:14.480 go up there and capture somebody going up into those hills and find out where 567 00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:20.920 the hospital was. So I went ahead set up an ambush site and a 568 00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:24.920 bunch of people came through and they were mostly VC Vietkong, and we ended 569 00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:30.880 up getting a two NBA and one was a nurse and I think I think 570 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:34.079 that male was a nurse too. There's one woman and two men. But 571 00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:39.519 we took those guys and got them back. And the sad thing in Vietnam 572 00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:44.320 is that when you take these prisoners, you know, we talked to them, 573 00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:46.960 interrogate them, then we turn them over to the district chief. The 574 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:51.559 district chief will say something like I'm going to let you go, but please 575 00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:54.440 tell your commander not to hit our town or village, you know, just 576 00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:57.800 leave us alone. We'll let you go. So they do that, and 577 00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:00.079 that was a big thing over there. So in fact, one of the 578 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:04.480 guys, one of the guys that I took as a prisoner, was a 579 00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:09.639 mott yard and he was he was he was sitting there making chopsticks. He 580 00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:14.400 had some chopsticks soon, and I told him, I said, hey, 581 00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:15.800 once you make me a set of chop sticks. And he goes, no, 582 00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:19.239 this isn't very good wood. He said, I'll get some good wood 583 00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:21.800 and i'll get him to you. So when the guy was in this little 584 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:24.760 prison jailor whatever it was where they send him, one day, I'm walking 585 00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:30.840 across the main compound on my day off. So I'm walking across and at 586 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:34.280 the main camp and this guy comes up and he says, hey, somebody 587 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.679 told me to give these to you. I've got the chop sticks in my 588 00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:42.519 kitchen. He actually maybe a set of chop six. So it was kind 589 00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:45.679 of weird. So, but yeah, taking prisoners in Vietnam, ra I 590 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.519 was, was not that hard. It really wasn't. Guys in SAG think, 591 00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:52.360 you know, wow, you know I never took a prisoner, But 592 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:54.679 I said, I never took a prisoner in SAG either. That's interesting because 593 00:37:54.679 --> 00:37:59.559 it's a whole different ballgame, right right right, You're out there totally by 594 00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:02.599 yourself. Yeah, I mean it's like in Vietnam, you got all the 595 00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:07.199 Americans fighting, They're all in our camps and you see five or six guys 596 00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:09.800 walking by, you can take them out, put them on a cat. 597 00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:14.599 It's the same thing. It's just reversed. We're five or six guys and 598 00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:17.760 got all the enemy there. You know, they were they're not afraid to 599 00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:22.440 come after you. There was also you know the and we've talked about this 600 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:25.039 on the show before, but one of the other things that made uh sag 601 00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:32.400 like very dangerous and very challenging for you guys is at like headquarters. It 602 00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:37.719 was getting leaked right that there were the headquarters had been infiltrated. So almost 603 00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:44.440 if you guys did the the Vietnamese or the NBA like knew what you guys 604 00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.480 were going to do. Yeah, I mean we had guys going out in 605 00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:52.239 the field and they'd say, Sergeant so and so, welcome nail Z number 606 00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:54.840 two. They actually had signs set up. They we had one team that 607 00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:58.719 went in. I can't m if it was the CCN team or one of 608 00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:02.519 our teams. Uh CCS folded up for pretty early, you know when they 609 00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:08.559 made that big push into Cambodia, so CCS shut down pretty early. But 610 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:14.559 the this guy he goes, he goes in, he gets in the l 611 00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:17.599 z H I never went in on LZ. I went on LZ's when I 612 00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:22.760 went with other teams as a straphanger, but when I went in, I 613 00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:25.079 never went on on LZ because I always knew there's gonna be somebody there watching 614 00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:30.880 it, either Dan or went out by ladder. But this guy gets off 615 00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:37.840 the helicopter. He's starting to run off the l Z and this an officer 616 00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:42.760 of North Vietnamese officer steps out around a tree and he just says, start 617 00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:45.480 and so and so, call your helicopters back, get on it and go. 618 00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:49.800 And he called the helicopters back and said come and get us. And 619 00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:54.519 yeah, yeah, when he's got the cone, he's a step out behind 620 00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:59.079 a tree like that, you can bet you're going to go. It was 621 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:02.760 a totally different animal war in Laos, Cambodia. Any any other missions that 622 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:06.800 you were on with SOG that you know really stick out in your mind that 623 00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:10.880 you'd like to talk about before we move on. There was I had one 624 00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:15.159 mission where the guy lost a man on his previous mission, and so they 625 00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:19.039 asked me if I would straphang and help him out. So I went over 626 00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:22.760 and I taught him his name was Hill, and in fact that that is 627 00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:24.280 I can't remember. I can't. I don't remember the name of the team. 628 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:27.880 I wrote it down someplace so I wouldn't forget it, and I did. 629 00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:31.599 But anyway, so I asked him. I told himself, I heard 630 00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:35.119 you lost a man your last mission, and you got a mission coming up. 631 00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:37.039 And he goes, yeah, I said, I'll run with you. 632 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:42.280 And now he's got two team leaders, right, So uh, he said 633 00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:45.360 thanks, I really appreciate that. And he goes, we're going in a 634 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:47.639 couple of couple of days if you want to do a you know, aerial 635 00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:51.599 recon. So I flew over and I checked out the area. It was 636 00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:55.039 all slash and burn, and I asked him, I said, what what 637 00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:58.480 is the mission? Anyway, he goes, hey wants to go knock out 638 00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:04.239 a tank. And I've got high sting me. I said, there's gonna 639 00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.400 be thousands of enemy around that tank. It's not be bumping down the road. 640 00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:12.440 It's not balking a lot. So anyway, we go and we take 641 00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:15.239 off and we go in. We go in our primary and the bullets are 642 00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:19.440 flying all over the place. You can hear him hitting the helicopter. None 643 00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:22.519 of us got hit, so but the bullets are flying all over the place. 644 00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:24.119 So then we take off out of there. You go to put us 645 00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:27.920 in our secondary. So we go over to the secondary, try to go 646 00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:30.800 in the same thing. Bullets are hitting the helicopter, flying all none of 647 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:34.440 us got hit. So He'll gets up between the pilot and the co pilot 648 00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:37.159 and says, hey, push down over there. So go over there, 649 00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:39.800 and beginning down, we're getting close to the ground. Then all of a 650 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:43.320 sudden, the bulls start flying again all over the place and are hitting the 651 00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:46.960 helicopter, and and I hear Hill going I'm hit, I'm hit, I'm 652 00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:50.800 hit. So I reached across and I grab his arm and hold on to 653 00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:53.519 him because of the centrifugal force because he's laying on the deck, you know. 654 00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:57.000 So I'm holding on to him, and they pull us out of there, 655 00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:00.519 and then they canceled that mission. But that was a pretty That was 656 00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:04.519 hilazious being in a helicopter getting hit with that many rounds. I mean, 657 00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:07.280 it's it's a lot of rounds and it's pretty scary. What's shocking is with 658 00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:10.719 the bullets going going through the helicopter and nobody getting hit. It was just 659 00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:15.840 somebody watching over us, you know. Let me see I had some others. 660 00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:21.920 Let's see what was some of the others. I had a bright light 661 00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:25.559 where some guys parachuted in they got separated. It was Paul Boyd. We 662 00:42:25.639 --> 00:42:30.880 flew in and but it was there was was. We had no problems at 663 00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:34.440 all. We just went ahead and just dropped the lattery, climbing hooked onto 664 00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:37.519 the lottery. We don't climb the ladders. We just hooked in the the 665 00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:40.639 ladder and just fly out hanging on the ladder. So but we got back 666 00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:45.679 out and there was no problems. I had another I know I had some 667 00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:54.559 other missions, but I had another bright light which was Cobrat four and that's 668 00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:58.840 the that's that one. There was a it was a codebreak four. It 669 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:02.840 was an F four Phantom that there was two pilots in the aircraft and they 670 00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:07.079 were going in the blow up a bridge in Cambodia and they took a fifty 671 00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:13.000 one caliber round and they lost. Our hydraulics hit the first hill, went 672 00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.880 across, hit the second hill, and landed on the third hill. And 673 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:20.039 the engines when they hit the first hill, the engines the motors just left 674 00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:23.000 the fuselage and they traveled. They landed not too far, like about one 675 00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:30.360 hundred meters or so from where the jet landed. Wow, But that one 676 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:35.119 I went in on. I went on, went down a short ladder and 677 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:37.199 got on the ground. I waited for the homer to come in on the 678 00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:42.079 next ladder with I had a seven man team. I always ran a seven 679 00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:44.599 man team. I always kept a string open or a ladder open, you 680 00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:49.119 know, for a pow. But anyway, they got on the ground. 681 00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:52.559 We waited for the you know, the leaves to break and stopped falling, 682 00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:54.559 and wait for our ears to pop, you know, because you're coming from 683 00:43:54.599 --> 00:44:00.800 altitude down. And we take off and we start going down this hill and 684 00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:02.159 you know where the jet went through it, it was all burned out. 685 00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:06.400 I walked down the hill just a little bit and all of a sudden, 686 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:08.679 I catch three guys, three enemy off from my right, and one of 687 00:44:08.679 --> 00:44:13.519 them's got a weapon on me and the other two guys I couldn't tell there 688 00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:15.960 behind a bush, and I figured they were going to shoot. They would 689 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:20.039 have already shot me. So I told my guys, I said, comsong, 690 00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.639 comsong, you know, don't shoot. And because they're mountain yards, 691 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:28.639 but they understand the Vietnamese phrases so but anyway, I just told the guys 692 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:32.239 my rifle, said move on, and so they they left. And because 693 00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:35.519 my job was to try to get the pilots, I didn't want it to 694 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:37.519 deal with all this other stuff. So anyway, I go ahead and I 695 00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:46.480 walk down a little further, and I start seeing bunkers and I started seeing 696 00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:52.199 these bunkers, and I walked a little bit further and I see this graveyard 697 00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:55.000 with a Communist star over and I go in there and I counted about six 698 00:44:55.039 --> 00:45:00.360 seven graves. When DPAA Defense pow Mia Accounting Agency went in and they they 699 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:05.000 found thirteen bodies in there, so they're probably stacking them inside one grave. 700 00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:09.320 And then I went a little further and I saw this meeting room on stilts 701 00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:15.519 twenty by twenty foot and all bamboo. So we go up the hill a 702 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:17.360 little bit. I found a boot with a foot in it. It was 703 00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:22.480 an American boot, but it was a Indigenous foot, so we put that 704 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:24.920 in the rucksack. And where we go ahead and head up the hill a 705 00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:28.480 little bit further, and then all of a sudden, I can hear these 706 00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:34.239 trucks and everything coming down the Hoachman Trail and the pilots overhead said you got 707 00:45:34.280 --> 00:45:37.920 six truckloads of enemy, two armored cars and a whole bunch of troops running 708 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:40.000 behind it. So I tried to get up the hill. I got to 709 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:43.760 the top, I found a bomb laying there, and at first I thought 710 00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:45.039 it was a bomb from the coachman trail, and they were diececting for the 711 00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:49.920 comp B to get it out of there to make satchel charges. But apparently 712 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:53.519 I think it's it came from from the F four that crashed. So and 713 00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:57.719 then I noticed all these square patterns on the deck, on the floor, 714 00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:00.239 on you know, And so I realized that this was some kind of a 715 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:05.400 village or something, an enemy village. And we saw some hooches around the 716 00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:09.639 area. And then the whole village was had bamboo woven over the top of 717 00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:13.079 it. It was all woven over the top, so you couldn't see it 718 00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:16.400 from the air except for where the jet went through. So and I had 719 00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:20.599 Homer go for one direction. I went on another direction, and we picked 720 00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:24.519 up pith helmets, uniforms, belts, medicinal bottles, and you pick up 721 00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:29.159 all that stuff and then you send it the Saigon and they can analyze it 722 00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:32.119 and try to figure out what unit it is that has that. And they 723 00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:36.039 can see where the unit's going from here to here to here, so they 724 00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:39.719 can figure out what direction they're going. So we did that and then we 725 00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:45.880 I saw the jet on the other hill and the guys up above. You 726 00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:50.159 know, the guys are flying over us. They said, we got to 727 00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:52.400 get you out of there, and I said, I'm not to the other 728 00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:54.239 hill. He goes, well, if we're running out of aund, because 729 00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:58.800 they're firing like crazy trying to get these enemies down. Uh. Main, 730 00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:00.920 the miniguns were going right over my head just I mean, it felt I 731 00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:04.840 thought they were gonna hit me in the head they were so low. And 732 00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:08.920 but the enemy started coming up the hill after us, and I said, 733 00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:12.599 okay, you know, go ahead and get us out. And so I 734 00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:15.639 had the one chopper come in. Homer took off with two guys, and 735 00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:20.239 then the next chopper comes in and just says he's coming in. He's like 736 00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:22.519 one hundred feet away. The enemy starts coming through the bushes and one gets 737 00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.519 an RPG off. I get hit in the arm the chest and I still 738 00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:30.039 got strapping on my wrist. But we're keeping the enemy down and I had 739 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:34.079 two gunships on both sides of the kiwie as he's coming in, and I 740 00:47:34.119 --> 00:47:36.360 said, I want you to parallel that que and I just want you to 741 00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:39.039 shoot into these these the jungle as much as you can. They keep these 742 00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:42.880 guys down and we're shooting like crazy. But he comes in. They dropped 743 00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:45.199 the ladders. We hook into the ladder and then they pick up and they 744 00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:47.719 got us out of there. Chopper took up. Oh. When the chopper 745 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:52.199 was coming in, I thought he got hit with an RPG because as I'm 746 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:54.760 jumping on the ladder and hooking in, I hear this boom, big loud 747 00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:58.320 bang, and I thought I was waiting for it to come down on top 748 00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:01.360 of me. And what happened as the gunner was shooting so furiously into trying 749 00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:06.440 to get the bad guys down that he wasn't watching the roader and the rotor 750 00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:09.159 hit a tree. He got two feet of his rotor off on both both 751 00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:13.239 roaders. Wow, he managed to get us out of there. But he 752 00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.960 still got us up and got us out of there. And I could see 753 00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:19.960 the trucks down there. I could see the the jet over on the other 754 00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:22.480 hill, but I couldn't get to it, you know. And I so 755 00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:29.800 I went back in. I went back in two thousand No, yeah, 756 00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:32.760 two thousand and two. I went back to Cambodia and on my own dime, 757 00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:37.960 and I hired six Cambodian rangers. There were park rangers, not like 758 00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:42.800 military rangers. And because the Radican Carry Province is right there south of the 759 00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:46.920 triborder and it's a big game refuge. So I had these guys and I 760 00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:50.920 said, hey, you know, i'd liked I'd like for these guys too. 761 00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:53.559 I'm looking for some guys to go with me, take me up there. 762 00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:58.400 I want to take some pictures of wildlife and stuff. And he goes, 763 00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:00.760 I'll see what I can do. So I got this park ranger guy 764 00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:05.800 that he was the son of the province chief, which turns out that saved 765 00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:10.119 my butt later on. But we got together. I told him what I 766 00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:13.920 was really gonna do, and he goes, oh, I know the jet 767 00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:15.800 crash. I go, really, he goes, yeah, he goes, 768 00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:20.519 it'll take us ten days to get there. So we hiked for about one 769 00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:22.920 hundred miles going up into there, and it took us ten days to get 770 00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:25.840 up there. When I first started, it was killing me because I was 771 00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:30.039 in my fifties. So I turned around, I said, let's go back, 772 00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:34.360 and I started jogging and running and exercising and trying to get myself in 773 00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:37.320 shape, and then we took off again, and then we made it ten 774 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:40.760 days got up there. We spent three days there. We found the jet, 775 00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:45.519 and I realized then that there was no way that I was going to 776 00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:49.320 be able to get to that jet fast enough from that second hill because it 777 00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:54.519 was just like that, it was really steep. And so anyway we did 778 00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:58.039 that. I found parts of the jet. I brought parts of the jet 779 00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:01.239 back, gave to the family. I haven't met the other family yet. 780 00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:08.119 It was Eric Kuberth and Alan Trent and Eric Kuberth's family and I were still 781 00:50:08.119 --> 00:50:15.039 pretty close. Uh, and but I haven't contacted Alan Trent's family. I'm 782 00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:16.960 hoping that who Berth, they're in t Toreuch with him, and I'd like 783 00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:20.039 to get him in the piece of the jet if they would like it. 784 00:50:20.679 --> 00:50:23.599 So I've still got a piece down stairs. That's incredible. Gym And uh, 785 00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:28.239 you know your your one one. Homer is the man. What was 786 00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:30.159 that guy like forty five at the time when he was doing all of this. 787 00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:36.760 Yeah, he was about that ageing. Yeah, well I didn't. 788 00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:40.199 He passed away in twenty fourteen and I think he was in his nineties. 789 00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:44.320 Yeah. Yeah, that's a long that's a long spell there. Good for 790 00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.559 him. Yeah, that's amazing. Well for the disposition, Like, how 791 00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:52.599 does the how did at the time, how did the government handle these two 792 00:50:52.599 --> 00:50:59.679 pilots that went down in Cambodia when obviously we didn't have anybody in Cambodia. 793 00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:02.639 Well, DPA knows that, you know, I mean, they knew there 794 00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:07.760 was people over There's still a bunch of people missing over there. We may 795 00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:10.440 never find him because you know, the minerals in the soil there, it's 796 00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:15.360 a cidic and it destroys the bones. One of the interesting things. Well 797 00:51:15.400 --> 00:51:21.239 I'll get to that in a minute. But yeah, anyway, when I 798 00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:23.360 came back from that mission, when I went back again in two thousand and 799 00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:28.320 two, we stayed there for three days. On the third day we got 800 00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:32.320 held up by bandits. And what saved my butt is they didn't want to 801 00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:37.119 have them to deal with the province chiefs son. So they came out of 802 00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:39.119 the bush of the Ak's and they were screaming at us and you know, 803 00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:43.199 I don't know what they're talking abou. I can't speak Cambodian. So anyway, 804 00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:45.400 the next day we were leaving anyway, so it took us ten days 805 00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:49.000 to get back. I threw a party for the guys, and then from 806 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:52.000 there I went up to Laos and went up the Coachman trail we'll wait up 807 00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:54.079 there, and checked everything out. A lot of damn. I've got a 808 00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:57.800 picture of I think I sent you the picture of the truck with the bomb 809 00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:00.519 sitting on it next to the Coachman trail. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 810 00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:06.239 yeah, that and I found a tanks that were blown up, you know, 811 00:52:06.280 --> 00:52:08.000 from guys dropping, you know, our guys dropping bombs on them. 812 00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:14.840 Found all kinds of like thirty thirty six millimeters anti aircraft weapons and stuff, 813 00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:19.119 all kinds of fifty one machine gun, you know, fifty one caliber machine 814 00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:22.840 guns, all kinds of stuff up in there. Sam missiles are still there. 815 00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:27.599 So if we're to wind back to uh, you know, from two 816 00:52:27.639 --> 00:52:30.199 thousand and two, back to what was it about nineteen seventy nineteen seventy one 817 00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:36.079 when that mission happened. It was nineteen May of nineteen seventy seventy when the 818 00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:39.039 mission took place. So how did how did Vietnam start to wind down for 819 00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:44.559 you personally? I mean, you finished your tour with SF over there. 820 00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:49.920 What was that like for you in returning back home and you know the next 821 00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:54.119 stage of your life? Really well, I didn't want to leave. I 822 00:52:54.159 --> 00:53:00.880 missed my flight home twice. Yeah, yeah, I just rather go on 823 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:07.199 on a mission. The second time I missed my flight home. I taught 824 00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:08.639 what you know. When I left CCC, I went down to be fifty 825 00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:12.400 three and I trained a lot of the guys for one zero School to be 826 00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:19.480 team leaders. And I taught in Philexville and pow Snatch. And so when 827 00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:23.920 when I was down there, OURTI Mama came down from Cend to go through 828 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:28.679 the pow Snatch school and they were going out to take a prisoner. Well, 829 00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:31.320 I wasn't about to miss out on that. So I got my gear 830 00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:36.280 and I'm walking out early in the morning out of the ship. The first 831 00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:38.880 sergeant comes walking out there was Veril R. Glenn. A Veril R. 832 00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:44.599 Glenn is an amazing man. He had stars all over his Master Blaster wings. 833 00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:47.119 He made every possible combat jump you can make during the Korean War in 834 00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:51.039 the Second World war. Wow. So they had two jumps going on at 835 00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:54.440 one time, so he only can make one. But anyway, he sees 836 00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:57.400 me and he goes, hey, Jones, where are you going? I 837 00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:00.920 said, I'm going out on this mission. He goes, aren't you supposed 838 00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:02.719 to be going home? I go, damn, Top, If I'm supposed 839 00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:05.920 to be going home, let me know, man, I didn't. I 840 00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:12.159 haven't heard anything. Because if I find out you're supposed to be going home, 841 00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:15.079 I go, really, Top, I haven't heard anything, you know, 842 00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:16.440 Please let me know if i'm you know, I'd like to go home. 843 00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:20.039 And so anyway, so I go out in the mission. I come 844 00:54:20.079 --> 00:54:22.599 back and Man, as soon as I got off that shopper Man, I 845 00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:24.519 walked into his office, they had two guys. They said, take this 846 00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:28.639 guy back his bags, march him down to the top sinute, and get 847 00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:32.679 him out a plane and get him out of here. So I finally, 848 00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:37.119 so they kicked you out of Vietnam. That's how it came about. Yeah, 849 00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:38.079 pretty much, you know, because I would have stayed. You know. 850 00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:43.360 One of the things that with SAG is the guys don't want to leave 851 00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:45.440 their buddies, you know, yeah, they you know, it's it's a 852 00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:49.880 camaraderie, you know, like we're we know we're both going we know what 853 00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:52.559 we're going through, and you don't want to leave them there by themselves. 854 00:54:52.599 --> 00:54:53.239 You don't want them to go on this mission. You know, like, 855 00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:54.960 man, if you're going on to a mission, I want to go with 856 00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:58.639 you to make sure you're going to be safe, you know that kind of 857 00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:02.679 thing. And a lot of the guys like what they would say is that, 858 00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:06.760 how do you know when to quit? Some of the guys would say 859 00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:08.519 that when my uniform falls part and I can't wear it anymore, it's time 860 00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:12.679 to quit. Yeah, because I was the same uniform and every mission, 861 00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:15.239 and that uniform is in a museum now, so really, which museum can 862 00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:19.159 we go see it in? There is a guy named Jason Hardy. Yeah, 863 00:55:19.239 --> 00:55:22.960 Jason Hardy's building a museum. You know who he is? No, 864 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:23.960 I don't. Is it. Is it going to be a Sog museum or 865 00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:30.199 Vietnam or what's the I think it's pretty much Soga because he's the guy that 866 00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:35.480 wrote all the books on the patches and all the teams and everything. Cool. 867 00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:38.039 Yeah, like a six or seven volume set. Cool. It's always 868 00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:42.159 going to have a museum. Yeah, he's getting it all together for a 869 00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:45.800 museum. That's awesome. So you bought my uniform, he bought it. 870 00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:50.159 I gave him some map I gave him some original maps. I made copies 871 00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:52.480 of the maps because I don't care if they're original or not. But I 872 00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:55.960 gave him the copies. I gave my uniform that I wore around the camp. 873 00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:01.719 It was a black uniform. I gave him that. So but yeah, 874 00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:05.360 Jason Harry is quite a good guy, real good guy. I was 875 00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:07.760 just talking to him just the other day. So I was trying to get 876 00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:09.320 that to find out what team Hill was on it. When I went, 877 00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:14.320 I didn't even know what team it was. So, so you get kicked 878 00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:16.800 out of Vietnam and now you're you're still in Special Forces. I mean, 879 00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:22.079 what what was the next What was the next step for you? I came 880 00:56:22.119 --> 00:56:23.719 back to the States. Well, they wanted me to be an officer. 881 00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:28.159 They asked me three times, and the third time I said what I got 882 00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:30.400 to do? And I said, well, you're gonna have to reap and 883 00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:32.559 I go, I said, you know, I've got a you know, 884 00:56:32.559 --> 00:56:36.840 a high school diploma. You know I'm not gonna last as an officer, 885 00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:40.039 They're gonna riff me back to a sergeant or something. So I went ahead 886 00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:43.599 and said, I'm gonna want to go back to the States and I want 887 00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:45.400 to get an education, you know, go to college. So I came 888 00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:50.719 back to the States and I joined the Special Force of Reserves and that team 889 00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:52.760 turned over to underwater operation. They send the whole team down the Key West. 890 00:56:53.079 --> 00:56:57.719 We all passed. We all did really good. But you know, 891 00:56:57.719 --> 00:57:00.440 we had a team starteant that pumped it into us. We didn't go out 892 00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:02.920 and party at night. We studied every night really hard. I got a 893 00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:07.480 ninety nine on the test. My dive partner got in ninety nine. Everybody 894 00:57:07.480 --> 00:57:12.480 got ninety seven, ninety eight, you know, but we did really good 895 00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:16.639 on the written tests and stuff. And so let me see where are I 896 00:57:16.679 --> 00:57:20.599 go from there? Oh? When I was there is when I was a 897 00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:24.039 police officer in Sunda as a police department. So and then I ended up 898 00:57:24.079 --> 00:57:29.000 getting a divorce and I was married, and so I ended up getting a 899 00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:32.679 divorce. And so what I decided to do is I was teaching the para 900 00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:40.920 restry guys night vision and submachine guns and stuff like that, you know, 901 00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:45.079 foreign weapons, and I didn't know who these guys were. I didn't know 902 00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:50.800 what pjs were, and so anyway, they told me what they did, 903 00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:52.440 and they were doing this stuff all the time, these missions all the time. 904 00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:55.920 And I'm going really, because I was bored to death. You know, 905 00:57:57.480 --> 00:57:59.519 you don't want to be special. If you're going in to be a 906 00:57:59.679 --> 00:58:01.920 dream, you're going to be a green bray to go fight a war if 907 00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:06.400 there's nothing going on. After a while, crust training gets old. Yeah. 908 00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:10.719 So so I went ahead and went on down and saw these guys were 909 00:58:10.719 --> 00:58:15.280 doing and I saw their equipment. My gosh, they had air raider scuba 910 00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:19.880 tanks. You know, you jump with twin tanks, so you're packed, 911 00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:23.440 you know, so it's a stay. Yeah. And they had all this 912 00:58:23.599 --> 00:58:29.000 climbing gear. They had all kinds of stuff, and I'm going, damn, 913 00:58:29.639 --> 00:58:32.039 you know. So I went back to the eight team and I told 914 00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:37.239 Jimmy Gaston was my team sergeant, and I told jam I said, Jimmy, 915 00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:38.400 I said, I'm going to go be a PJ. He goes, 916 00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:42.239 no, you can't, you can't be a PJ. I go, yeah, 917 00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:45.480 I'm bored. He goes, no, your your your family, you 918 00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:47.119 can't leave the team. I go, man, I'm bored to death, 919 00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:54.320 Jimmy. So I left. I went down and this guy whose name is 920 00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:58.880 Al Richmond, he said, in charge of the PA section. He shows 921 00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:01.440 me this letter where PJ need to have more combat training and I'm going, 922 00:59:01.480 --> 00:59:04.639 well, you know, I'd like to just kind of do all this other 923 00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:07.800 stuff. I don't want to teach combat stuff, and so he goes, 924 00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:08.679 well, that's your ticket in. I go, well, if I have 925 00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:13.679 to. So I went ahead and did that, and they put me through 926 00:59:13.719 --> 00:59:15.960 a little mini training thing to make sure I can pass the school and that 927 00:59:16.039 --> 00:59:19.519 was a piece of cake for me. And so then I went down to 928 00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:25.039 the school and passed everything through school and everything they told me they would. 929 00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:28.679 You know, the Air Force has what they call Air Force Now films, 930 00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:31.320 and it is to get the young guys interested in staying in the Air Force 931 00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:37.280 and promoting into another field if they haven't want to. And so they were 932 00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:39.639 doing an Air Force Now film. So we were doing our full scuba jumps 933 00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:44.440 out down in Florida off the coast there, and I jump out of the 934 00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:47.280 plane and I've got, you know, probably one hundred and fifty jumps out 935 00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:51.639 of C one thirties at this time, you know, And so they told 936 00:59:51.639 --> 00:59:53.840 me. He says, oh, you hit the door. I called shit, 937 00:59:53.880 --> 00:59:58.159 having hit the door. He goes, yeah, you hit that door. 938 00:59:58.440 --> 01:00:01.000 I go what I say? Then I find out they're doing an Air 939 01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:06.239 Force Now film and they wanted the young guys my assistant because I was in 940 01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:09.440 charge of the group. So they wanted my assistant to be the guy in 941 01:00:09.559 --> 01:00:13.960 charge because they were all young guys and I was an old part. So, 942 01:00:14.239 --> 01:00:15.320 you know, I didn't even know how old I was. I think 943 01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:22.159 I was thirty thirty two something like that, So I was I was a 944 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:27.119 I was the oldest guy for like about a week that went through PJ training. 945 01:00:28.119 --> 01:00:31.400 Then there was a guy that like two weeks behind me, and the 946 01:00:31.480 --> 01:00:37.159 guy was phenomenal. The guy was like my age, but he whipped that 947 01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:43.119 training like like it was nothing. I mean, he was built, he 948 01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:45.440 was in good shape, thin, a lot of muscle, and he made 949 01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:52.239 me look bad. But so anyway, I finished the school and no, 950 01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:53.199 I went down to the school and they told me I hit the doors, 951 01:00:53.199 --> 01:00:55.639 I had to wait for the next cycle to come through. It's for them 952 01:00:55.679 --> 01:00:59.440 to do their scuba jumps. And so I went through and through and I 953 01:00:59.559 --> 01:01:01.280 jumped and I found out if you're doing this Air Force Now film. And 954 01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:06.239 that's why they actually told me I hit the door because they didn't want me 955 01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:10.320 to graduate the class because they were doing this film. So the next time 956 01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:13.960 I got there, I jumped out of the calf. You got over one 957 01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:16.440 hundred pounds of gear on you. How do you kind of shout out of 958 01:01:16.440 --> 01:01:22.199 that frigging how? You know? So I used to put my arm against 959 01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:25.760 my side and put it against the door, and I just swing out to 960 01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:29.440 like a pendulum, right, And that's how I went out. And so 961 01:01:29.599 --> 01:01:30.559 I went ahead and got out of the plane. I get it. I 962 01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:34.000 land on the water and to go, whoa, you left that door by 963 01:01:34.039 --> 01:01:39.039 ten feet, I go, you're so full craft. So anyway, I 964 01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:45.119 went up. You know, when I came back to the it's a do 965 01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:49.079 we go train for PJ training. It's in New Mexico, Albuquerque, New 966 01:01:49.079 --> 01:01:53.559 Mexico Hurklan Air Force Base. So I go there and I'm walking. I'm 967 01:01:53.559 --> 01:01:55.719 sitting in the class and then they called me up to the front of the 968 01:01:55.800 --> 01:02:00.760 room. They give me my beret and my my certificate and they were going 969 01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:02.559 to take a picture. I go, now, I'm out of here. 970 01:02:02.679 --> 01:02:07.320 I just left. I was so furious and fist at him. So I 971 01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:09.360 got my Volkswagen van and drove all the way back to Bunch twenty ninth and 972 01:02:09.440 --> 01:02:16.199 started doing missions. So and you know, because you talked about, you 973 01:02:16.239 --> 01:02:20.559 know, being sf and being bored, because yes, f mission is a 974 01:02:20.599 --> 01:02:24.960 combat mission, but these parush you guys were like doing missions all the time. 975 01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:29.679 Can you talk a little bit about that mission, why they were so 976 01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:35.960 active and what about that appeal to you? Well, I've always kind of 977 01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:39.920 pushed the envelope, you know. I yeah, I've always pushed the envelope 978 01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:45.800 just a little bit. But they just the idea of making jumps out in 979 01:02:45.800 --> 01:02:49.039 the middle of the ocean, making parachute jumps into the mountains, for plane 980 01:02:49.119 --> 01:02:52.639 crashes, doing a lot of most of the civilian stuff. Yeah, you 981 01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:57.519 know savans on ships, plane crashes, you know they have We had went 982 01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:00.920 with the plane crashed and there was a husband, wife, and two girls 983 01:03:00.920 --> 01:03:06.360 in there and they were all killed. But they got the girls, the 984 01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:08.760 guy out, I mean the wife out, but the husband we had to 985 01:03:08.840 --> 01:03:13.039 leave. He was halfway out one window and half out the front window of 986 01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:15.159 the plane, and we just cabled the plane down, left it there, 987 01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:20.880 and then during the summertime when the snow and everything melts, then Sheriff's apartment 988 01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:24.599 will go in and get the remains. So but all that kind of stuff 989 01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:30.559 just really it had home with me. You know. I just just had 990 01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:35.119 the thrill of mountain climbing. And because we did a lot of mountain climbing, 991 01:03:35.559 --> 01:03:37.920 you know, we had got We used to work on McKinley all the 992 01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:43.320 time, uh, you know, just practicing ice climbing and stuff, Ruce 993 01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:47.920 glather glacier climb, Mount Shasta, mount Hood up in Oregon. I was 994 01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:52.480 one of the paramedics for when Mount Saint Helen blew. Uh, we did 995 01:03:52.519 --> 01:03:53.039 that kind of work, you know, we'd go up there and look for 996 01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:58.760 remains. I was also a paramedic for the Space Shuttle, you know, 997 01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:01.320 for the first three landings, because it was a motiate contingency. So the 998 01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:06.760 first three landings had only the pilot and the pilot and the commander so if 999 01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:10.840 if anything happened, they could bail out of it. They had ejection seats, 1000 01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:14.119 but when they put a third person in there, they disconnected the ejection 1001 01:04:14.199 --> 01:04:18.119 seats. So that's that took me out of the picture because if if they 1002 01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:21.039 had to reject, then I would parachute in take care of them. So 1003 01:04:21.159 --> 01:04:25.639 they had other pjs that did the other work for when it landed. If 1004 01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:29.840 you look at the when the shuttle lands like it Edwards Air Force Base, 1005 01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:33.880 you see these guys with the suits on the tanks and they're breathing oxygen and 1006 01:04:33.920 --> 01:04:39.360 they're testing the Space Shuttle for poisonous gases. So those are all pjs. 1007 01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:43.119 And what they do is they those two big arms that go into the back 1008 01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:45.880 end of the shuttle you see there. Those aren't What they're doing is they're 1009 01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:48.039 freezing all the gases. So if they freeze all the gases, then the 1010 01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:51.119 PJS go in. They test all the air to make sure it's it's stable, 1011 01:04:51.320 --> 01:04:55.920 and then they open it up and let the astronauts come out. And 1012 01:04:56.000 --> 01:05:00.000 so those guys continued with the missions, but I stopped after STS one, 1013 01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.679 two, and three. I mean, that's a whole like other ballgame. 1014 01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:06.079 Like you, I take it you probably had to learn about like aerospace medicine 1015 01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:11.519 at that point. Uh. Yeah. I trained with Annelie Fisher, the 1016 01:05:11.519 --> 01:05:15.440 first mother in space. She worked with us mostly and I became friends with 1017 01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:19.719 Jim Beaijan. They're all they're medical doctors and astronauts. And then ray A 1018 01:05:19.800 --> 01:05:24.880 Sedden and I bumped in the Raya Seddon quite a few times. Anna Fisher. 1019 01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:28.360 I bumped into her a couple of times and talked to him. And 1020 01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:33.679 then STS three h Jack Lausma, Uh he was an STS three. Uh, 1021 01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:38.239 I've I've bumped in him a few times and we sit and talk and 1022 01:05:38.239 --> 01:05:41.159 stuff. Uh. They go to I go to the space Fest because they 1023 01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:44.480 have they have a section for Metea rights there, so I go there for 1024 01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:46.519 that and some of the astronauts that they are signing autographs and stuff. So 1025 01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:51.119 I'll go in and meet him and talk to him and stuff. And Anna 1026 01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:56.920 remind remembers me. Ray didn't remember, but she was always asleep anyway in 1027 01:05:57.079 --> 01:06:00.639 class. And she's married to a guy named Who Gibs and another astanaut and 1028 01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:05.559 who he goes. Yeah, she still falls asleep all the time. But 1029 01:06:05.679 --> 01:06:12.079 she's she's really she's adorable. She's really nice looking. Lady is really nice 1030 01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:16.440 and a Fisher. She remembers me because I was sitting there taking a picture 1031 01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:20.239 and she was yelling at me put down the camera, get over here, 1032 01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:24.000 and learn something, will you? I go, okay, okay, I'm 1033 01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:27.159 taking pictures. Now she's glad I took the pictures because now I gave her 1034 01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:30.159 a copy of them. Yeah. Right. So, in addition to the 1035 01:06:30.159 --> 01:06:34.320 mountain rescue, because I know that the para rescue units, the guard units 1036 01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:40.360 in California and Alaska are extremely active with like the mountain rescues and things like 1037 01:06:40.360 --> 01:06:43.159 that. But you guys also do a lot of the ocean rescue. So 1038 01:06:43.199 --> 01:06:48.360 if there's a fishing trawler or something out there, high see somebody there appendix 1039 01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:54.280 versus you guys are the ones they call. And how do rescues like that 1040 01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:58.079 go down? Well, if it's over three hundred miles or over one hundred 1041 01:06:58.079 --> 01:07:00.760 fifty miles or something like that, if it's close to shore, the coast 1042 01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:04.440 Guard will do it. But they're not refuelable, so they've they're limited on 1043 01:07:04.480 --> 01:07:08.480 how far they can go because they have to have return fuel and are reserved 1044 01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:12.559 by the time they land, So they would What they do is they take 1045 01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:18.400 two C one thirties and a helicopter and we get into the sea one thirty 1046 01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:21.840 We fly out out to the ocean where the ship might be eleven hundred miles 1047 01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:26.039 out of sea, and then we load up and on the way out we're 1048 01:07:26.079 --> 01:07:30.360 talking to back then it was Scott Air Force Base and you're talking to the 1049 01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:32.599 doctors that are in charge over there, and they're telling you what you can 1050 01:07:32.639 --> 01:07:35.639 do and what not to do, what medications you can give them and don't 1051 01:07:35.639 --> 01:07:41.719 give them medications that depending on what's going on with them. And so then 1052 01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:45.440 we go out and we pursued in and the Sea one thirty, the other 1053 01:07:45.480 --> 01:07:47.960 Sea one thirty is refueling the helicopter all the way out. Now you see 1054 01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:51.559 those helicopter with that big snorkel in the front that's refueling. Those are usually 1055 01:07:51.599 --> 01:07:56.360 pjs, so they're refueling them all the way out. And then we'll get 1056 01:07:56.360 --> 01:07:59.239 the guy ready because we're out there way ahead of time. Well can put 1057 01:07:59.320 --> 01:08:01.360 him in a stokes Well, well, the CHAPERI come out and drop a 1058 01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:04.880 stake slitter and then we're getting the guy already. We've already got him up 1059 01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:09.039 on the deck and we're going to put him in a sleeping bag, seal 1060 01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:12.480 him up, put ear muffs on him, goggles on him, and strap 1061 01:08:12.559 --> 01:08:15.279 him in. And then we got a rope tied onto the the stakes litter 1062 01:08:15.319 --> 01:08:18.159 so it doesn't spin, and then they'll bring it up and get him into 1063 01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:21.800 the helicopter. They take the litter off and they put a penetrator on it. 1064 01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:26.039 It's a thing that comes down with little seats, and then we get 1065 01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:28.800 on my buddy and I'll get on it, and then we'll go back up 1066 01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:32.399 and get it in the helicopter and then we'll refuel like on one, and 1067 01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:36.560 we went out eleven hundred miles like I had a rupture appendix. And what 1068 01:08:36.680 --> 01:08:41.079 we did is we we low leveled a one hundred feet off the water and 1069 01:08:41.079 --> 01:08:44.359 refueled all the way to the Cruise Bay, Oregon. That was the closest 1070 01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:46.319 point, and we got there at night, and then all the crews were 1071 01:08:46.319 --> 01:08:48.279 there. They were, you know, the camera crews. I gotta get 1072 01:08:48.399 --> 01:08:51.159 I gotta get a copy of the news film. But they took vers of 1073 01:08:51.239 --> 01:08:56.920 us coming off. I'd love to get it for my kids. And so 1074 01:08:57.560 --> 01:09:00.920 from there we just we get rid of the guy and then we moseyon down 1075 01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:05.199 to the base down in California. So, Jim, I know that this 1076 01:09:05.399 --> 01:09:09.920 was your job, so it was just like normal half to you. But 1077 01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:14.000 I feel like there's a point between where you're on a sea one thirty and 1078 01:09:14.359 --> 01:09:21.279 an airplane there is a boat or a ship in potentially high seas right storm 1079 01:09:21.319 --> 01:09:27.920 conditions. Whatever managed to get from a sea one thirty because it's not going 1080 01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:32.359 to hover over this rocking ship? Right, how do you manage to get 1081 01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:36.800 from the sea one thirty onto that ship? Oh? We just jump out? 1082 01:09:40.840 --> 01:09:45.119 What you do? They usually give us the old parachutes, you know, 1083 01:09:45.119 --> 01:09:46.159 because if you blow a panel on the old shoot, you know, 1084 01:09:46.239 --> 01:09:50.800 that doesn't matter. You're hitting water. But what we do is we've got 1085 01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:57.640 medical gear on us, We've got a raft on us, we've got a 1086 01:09:57.640 --> 01:10:01.399 bunch of stuff, and we got double scuba tant on the parachute, the 1087 01:10:01.439 --> 01:10:05.760 reserve chute, a knife and other stuff in case you're run. But you're 1088 01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:11.039 not going to run the sharks out there. So on that mission we flew 1089 01:10:11.079 --> 01:10:17.520 out. It was John Stevens and I and John seems he was at PGA 1090 01:10:17.600 --> 01:10:20.520 a lot longer than I was, so and he had time in Vietnam I 1091 01:10:20.520 --> 01:10:24.760 think I think he did anyway, So he was a team leader on that 1092 01:10:24.800 --> 01:10:28.800 one. So we go ahead and we jump out, we drop a What 1093 01:10:28.840 --> 01:10:30.439 we do is we drop up, we go over the ship where we want 1094 01:10:30.439 --> 01:10:32.960 to land. We don't land on the ship. We land in the water 1095 01:10:33.439 --> 01:10:36.079 because you don't want to get tangled up on the ship. So what you 1096 01:10:36.159 --> 01:10:39.600 do is you we find a place in water where we want to go, 1097 01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:43.479 so we go over it and we drop streamers down and watch where the streamers 1098 01:10:43.520 --> 01:10:46.359 go, and then you count backwards. So if the if you want to 1099 01:10:46.439 --> 01:10:49.560 land here and the streamer lands over here, well you jump out over here. 1100 01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:54.640 So you land here. So so we go ahead and we jump out, 1101 01:10:54.920 --> 01:10:59.560 and then they'll push bundles out with all the other medical gear that we 1102 01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:03.079 might we could use, and then there the ship puts a dinghy in the 1103 01:11:03.119 --> 01:11:08.680 water and so they'll come over and they'll pick you up. And on that 1104 01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:14.039 mission we had thirty two foot seas and it was it was we had to 1105 01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:15.560 get there to get the guy because he was going to die. We had 1106 01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:17.760 to get him, get him out of there and get him to a hospital. 1107 01:11:17.960 --> 01:11:21.640 He was twenty one year old. Taiwanese. They're working on those ships 1108 01:11:21.640 --> 01:11:29.039 that bring the Honda cars over and so, uh, I'm coming down in 1109 01:11:29.079 --> 01:11:30.600 the parachute. I'm not in the water yet, and I'm look at the 1110 01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:33.439 top of the wave and I'm going, oh, this isn't going to be 1111 01:11:33.439 --> 01:11:38.199 good. Yeah. So so and on the way out we're eating donuts, 1112 01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:43.439 which you don't want to do. So so we get in the water and 1113 01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:46.159 I'm waiting. I wait for a top of a crestlal wave so I can 1114 01:11:46.159 --> 01:11:49.079 see the dinghy where it is. And this is why pja's got to be 1115 01:11:49.079 --> 01:11:53.560 strong, because you got to swim below this gear on. So you cut 1116 01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:56.399 the canopy loose and just let it sink, get rid of it, and 1117 01:11:56.439 --> 01:11:59.279 then you're swimming with your harness, with all your gear, and so you 1118 01:11:59.359 --> 01:12:01.520 swim on over and the dinghy. When I got to the dinghy, I 1119 01:12:01.640 --> 01:12:04.319 grabbed the side as it was coming up, and when the boat came all 1120 01:12:04.359 --> 01:12:08.479 the way up, I could see all the way underneath it. It just 1121 01:12:08.560 --> 01:12:11.000 came up to the crest of the wave like that. I could see all 1122 01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:13.720 the way under it. And when it went down, it went down like 1123 01:12:13.760 --> 01:12:17.600 this, and I just rowed right into it. What they couldn't get the 1124 01:12:18.079 --> 01:12:21.000 Yeah, they couldn't even get the dinghy running. The motors kumped out on 1125 01:12:21.279 --> 01:12:28.439 and these guys are merchant marines and it's really windy and nasty out and everybody's 1126 01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:32.840 getting sick, and it's blowing all over everybody, and it's just frigging miserable. 1127 01:12:32.880 --> 01:12:38.159 So they finally the swell of the boat washed you onto the or I'm 1128 01:12:38.159 --> 01:12:41.119 sorry, the swell of the waves washed you onto the deck of the ship. 1129 01:12:41.720 --> 01:12:43.680 I just rolled no no, no, no, on the dinghy. 1130 01:12:44.039 --> 01:12:45.800 Oh onto the dinghy. Okay, I got it on the dingy. Yeah, 1131 01:12:45.840 --> 01:12:49.920 so so we got I got in the dinghy and then everything everything, 1132 01:12:49.960 --> 01:12:54.119 They finally got the thing going. So when you go over to the ship, 1133 01:12:54.760 --> 01:12:56.960 they have a door on the side of the ship and they drop a 1134 01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:00.840 rope ladder out of it. So what what what you have to do is 1135 01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:03.520 you gotta wait for the highest wave on that because it goes up on the 1136 01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:06.600 side of the ship. You want the highest wave. And then you grab 1137 01:13:06.640 --> 01:13:11.720 that ladder and you start climbing up, and that dingy's gonna just disappear thirty 1138 01:13:11.880 --> 01:13:15.640 thirty two feet below you. You guys are so crazy. Yeah, so 1139 01:13:15.680 --> 01:13:18.279 then you climb in. I'm climbing in and I'm just puking my guts out 1140 01:13:18.279 --> 01:13:23.439 from eating all those donuts and that nasty weather and stuff, and so these 1141 01:13:23.520 --> 01:13:26.720 I can just see those guys they're sitting there going these guys came to help 1142 01:13:26.840 --> 01:13:30.680 us. Yeah. Yeah, so and then John Stevens, he gets on, 1143 01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:33.319 He comes up, he waits for a big wave. He gets on, 1144 01:13:33.720 --> 01:13:38.439 climbs up the ladder. A bigger wave came along. The boat comes 1145 01:13:38.479 --> 01:13:41.840 up, knocks him off the ladder and he falls into the dinghy twice. 1146 01:13:42.119 --> 01:13:45.560 Oh my gosh. Yeah, so he finally got enough. They're a big 1147 01:13:45.640 --> 01:13:47.840 enough wave and he climbed in, got in there and we took care of 1148 01:13:47.840 --> 01:13:51.000 the guy. And then the choppers finally got there and we took him up 1149 01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:54.279 in the deck and you know, got him in the chopper and we flew 1150 01:13:54.279 --> 01:13:56.920 to Cosbay. Organ. He was so blown up, and you have to 1151 01:13:56.960 --> 01:14:00.800 go at low altitude because he's blown up from the gas is building up from 1152 01:14:00.840 --> 01:14:04.439 the rupture appendix Right, you can't altitude because it gas expands with altitude, 1153 01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:08.239 and that's why we had to refuel at one hundred feet off the water. 1154 01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:11.720 So, but he made it. He was a strong kid and he made 1155 01:14:11.720 --> 01:14:14.479 it. But he wanted me to cut his gut to get because it was 1156 01:14:14.479 --> 01:14:17.520 so distended because I got my sister and I was cutting off his underwear and 1157 01:14:17.560 --> 01:14:20.479 he's sitting't of trying to hold everything up, and he's telling me to cut 1158 01:14:20.520 --> 01:14:25.079 his gut. And there was no way I can do like a thors Andisis 1159 01:14:25.159 --> 01:14:29.000 or anything, because I couldn't. I didn't want to puncture his bow right 1160 01:14:29.840 --> 01:14:31.239 going and trying to get the air out. I didn't want to take a 1161 01:14:31.279 --> 01:14:33.960 chance on it. So yeah, but he made it, he lived, 1162 01:14:34.079 --> 01:14:36.800 you know. And then then I had another mission after that, and the 1163 01:14:36.800 --> 01:14:42.119 other one was I had a bunch of hoist missions, but that one I 1164 01:14:42.119 --> 01:14:45.119 had. Another one was a jump mission, and we flew Otters about one 1165 01:14:45.119 --> 01:14:49.399 thousand miles out. We jumped in and the guy had a bowel obstruction, 1166 01:14:49.479 --> 01:14:54.119 an ingwall and hernia and a bowl obstruction. And that was a pretty nice 1167 01:14:54.119 --> 01:14:57.359 That was a nice mission. The water was pretty calm out in the middle 1168 01:14:57.359 --> 01:15:00.239 of the ocean. We jumped in and it the sugar island that brings the 1169 01:15:00.239 --> 01:15:05.520 c and sugar over from Hawaii. So I became good friends with the skipper 1170 01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:12.079 of the ship, Bill mcculloff was his name, And so we went ahead 1171 01:15:12.119 --> 01:15:15.920 and and got on got on that boat and we stayed on the ship. 1172 01:15:15.399 --> 01:15:20.039 We just jumped in and the helicopter just stayed back in California, but we 1173 01:15:20.079 --> 01:15:24.960 went because the skipper told us it was nice cromp Seas and we just stabilized 1174 01:15:24.960 --> 01:15:28.199 the guy, got him set up for surgery, and we just stayed on 1175 01:15:28.199 --> 01:15:30.279 the ship for a day and a half and took care of him until we 1176 01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:32.039 got to Hawaii and then they took him off and took him in. Got 1177 01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:35.079 a nice letter from the doctor that did the surgery and everything said, we 1178 01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:40.439 prepped really well. Wow. I had another mission. It was a jump 1179 01:15:40.479 --> 01:15:45.000 mission and it got canceled when we're out there, but it was a drug 1180 01:15:45.039 --> 01:15:47.560 dealer ship and they was they blew a plug on their own ship. They 1181 01:15:47.560 --> 01:15:50.920 were sinking the ship. And then all these bales came out into the water, 1182 01:15:51.479 --> 01:15:55.439 you know, big giant bales, and all these boats came in and 1183 01:15:55.479 --> 01:15:59.560 they're loading all these bales and they had dea and uh, you know, 1184 01:15:59.640 --> 01:16:04.520 these other police organizations out there, both Mexican and American going out. They're 1185 01:16:04.520 --> 01:16:08.640 trying to get these guys, but they only got like three of the ships. 1186 01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:10.920 The boats. Yeah, the only got boats. It was like, 1187 01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:15.600 I don't know, thirteen bosa came out and about fifteen or sixteen bales in 1188 01:16:15.640 --> 01:16:17.279 the water. When we were going to jump in because one of the guys 1189 01:16:17.279 --> 01:16:21.359 got burnt when they blew a charge to sink the ship. And then they 1190 01:16:21.359 --> 01:16:25.079 found that there was a drug dealer and they said, no, don't jump. 1191 01:16:25.600 --> 01:16:28.439 So I want to jump. Yeah, I'm not worried. Damn I'll 1192 01:16:28.520 --> 01:16:33.760 jump, take their gun away and slap them around. But so anyway, 1193 01:16:33.800 --> 01:16:36.960 on that boat, I talked the pilots to stay there. Hey, let's 1194 01:16:36.960 --> 01:16:40.680 stay here and watch his ship sink. And we stayed there and got to 1195 01:16:40.720 --> 01:16:45.760 watch this big old ship sink. It was really cool. So that was 1196 01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:47.199 it. That was That was my jump missions. The other were a hoist 1197 01:16:47.239 --> 01:16:51.000 missions, you know, like we had one where the guy was an older 1198 01:16:51.079 --> 01:16:56.039 merchant marine and it was all young marine merchant marines and he didn't fit in, 1199 01:16:56.439 --> 01:17:00.680 so he was taking medication and drinking alcohol and he fell and hit his 1200 01:17:00.760 --> 01:17:04.560 head. Undilated pupils you know, bigger than the other. And we went 1201 01:17:04.680 --> 01:17:09.039 and we just hoisted him up, got down the boat, got him out 1202 01:17:09.039 --> 01:17:13.920 of there, took him to Chrissy Field in San Francisco, flew under the 1203 01:17:13.920 --> 01:17:17.159 Golden Gate, which is really cool, and and that was it, and 1204 01:17:17.279 --> 01:17:20.039 the others were just regular hoatsmission. You just bring the guys up, get 1205 01:17:20.079 --> 01:17:24.439 him out, taking them to safety, you know. So, But but 1206 01:17:24.479 --> 01:17:27.039 I love being a PJ. It's a great job, really good job. 1207 01:17:27.319 --> 01:17:30.479 In Mount Saint Helen's when we went up there, we were relieving the guys 1208 01:17:30.520 --> 01:17:33.960 up in Oregon because they were working around the clock and they needed a break. 1209 01:17:34.119 --> 01:17:38.560 So guys from New York came out, and then we went up and 1210 01:17:38.840 --> 01:17:43.800 we relieved those guys and that was that was that was horrendous. You know, 1211 01:17:43.840 --> 01:17:46.119 when you see those trees that are laying down the ground, they were 1212 01:17:46.119 --> 01:17:50.800 only about fifty feet where they were standing. All that bear area you see, 1213 01:17:51.039 --> 01:17:56.600 all those trees were disintegrated. Yeah, it was just disintegrated. And 1214 01:17:56.640 --> 01:18:00.159 if the trees laying on the ground, they looked like telephone poles. Know, 1215 01:18:00.159 --> 01:18:02.560 the branches are gone on the tops of trees are gone because we're disintegrated. 1216 01:18:02.600 --> 01:18:05.560 But the pressure wasn't strong, so it didn't destroy the whole tree. 1217 01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:12.239 There was a like a distance there where it stopped and were flying over and 1218 01:18:12.279 --> 01:18:15.199 looking down and seeing all these elk and stuff in the river and deer in 1219 01:18:15.239 --> 01:18:18.840 the river washing down with the mud and stuff, and it looked like the 1220 01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:24.039 surface of the moon. It was really pretty devastating when you look at it, 1221 01:18:24.720 --> 01:18:29.800 how massive it was. Now we're talking about sort of, you know, 1222 01:18:29.920 --> 01:18:33.119 the time between Vietnam and the Global War on Terror. But Para Rescue 1223 01:18:33.199 --> 01:18:39.560 did also have they do have a combat mission, even if even if that 1224 01:18:39.760 --> 01:18:44.680 wasn't necessarily the focus, because you know, that wasn't going on. What 1225 01:18:45.600 --> 01:18:48.079 how did they You mentioned earlier that they wanted sort of combat training from you. 1226 01:18:48.079 --> 01:18:51.359 You had been you know, Green Beret, Macty, SAG and Vietnam, 1227 01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:56.840 Like, how did how did that play in with your time with Para 1228 01:18:56.920 --> 01:19:02.279 Rescue. I taught them, you know, things like I set up shooting 1229 01:19:02.319 --> 01:19:08.680 ranges, you know, like like a pathway you walk through and they'll be 1230 01:19:08.760 --> 01:19:11.479 like guys. And one of the things that a lot of people don't do 1231 01:19:11.560 --> 01:19:15.279 is they don't look down by their feet. So I had enemy like just 1232 01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:17.520 because they're always looking out at around them like this, they don't look down 1233 01:19:17.560 --> 01:19:20.840 by their feet, and a guy could be in a little little hole right 1234 01:19:20.840 --> 01:19:25.359 there, you know, and and take you out. So I did a 1235 01:19:25.399 --> 01:19:27.319 lot of that kind of stuff, a lot of shooting, and trained them 1236 01:19:27.359 --> 01:19:30.039 a lot. I told me, you know, unless you can really take 1237 01:19:30.079 --> 01:19:31.000 the guy, if there's only a few guys, you can take the guy 1238 01:19:31.039 --> 01:19:34.560 out. But if there's a bunch of guys or something like that, you 1239 01:19:34.560 --> 01:19:38.880 can shoot down in front of them and the rocks will come up. Because 1240 01:19:39.720 --> 01:19:43.560 if you shoot the guy and you kill the guy, well they're just gonna 1241 01:19:43.640 --> 01:19:45.239 leave him there and keep fighting you. But if you will the guy, 1242 01:19:45.680 --> 01:19:48.439 it's going to take one or two other guys that take him out, get 1243 01:19:48.479 --> 01:19:53.600 him out to her and be saved. So those kind of tactics is what 1244 01:19:53.920 --> 01:19:58.800 I trained him, and I taught him in the iron a DROs immediate action 1245 01:19:59.560 --> 01:20:02.640 that wh's never worked by the way, you know, the one guy shoots 1246 01:20:02.680 --> 01:20:05.279 and then you run through the middle and the other guy shoots and they never 1247 01:20:05.479 --> 01:20:08.920 turned around. You run into a tree or a rock or something. It 1248 01:20:08.960 --> 01:20:12.680 did work, yeah, but but it gives you a starting point. Yeah. 1249 01:20:13.439 --> 01:20:19.880 So yeah, now that that's interesting. And then did you see I 1250 01:20:19.920 --> 01:20:24.720 don't know when you left Peroscue, and I don't know like when the twenty 1251 01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:30.119 fourth formed, but like did they you know, as did you maintain your 1252 01:20:30.119 --> 01:20:32.640 connection to the parish community as they started moving too the global war on terror 1253 01:20:32.680 --> 01:20:38.279 and they started taking on a more tactical focus. No, that that happened 1254 01:20:38.279 --> 01:20:42.319 after I left. I got busted up parachuting and I had an injury over 1255 01:20:42.319 --> 01:20:45.560 from Vietnam. I got thrown. I got thrown out of a helicopter about 1256 01:20:45.600 --> 01:20:49.199 twenty five feet or thirty feet, and I fractured my back and I sprung 1257 01:20:49.279 --> 01:20:53.760 my pelvis open my s eye joint. And I didn't know it. I 1258 01:20:53.840 --> 01:20:57.600 knew I got hurt. Yeah. I couldn't talk for for a couple of 1259 01:20:57.600 --> 01:21:00.039 weeks. I mean like that, and every time I try to talk. 1260 01:21:00.600 --> 01:21:04.680 So when I got injured parachuting, the doc comes out and he goes, 1261 01:21:04.720 --> 01:21:08.680 have you ever injured yourself before? And I go no, And I said, 1262 01:21:08.720 --> 01:21:11.000 why, well, you got a bunch of fractures. You got to 1263 01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:14.199 fractured T seven L five and you sprung your pelvis and I had a big 1264 01:21:14.199 --> 01:21:17.159 spur in my SI joint. And I go oh, I said, I 1265 01:21:17.199 --> 01:21:19.960 got thrown out of a helicopter in Vietnam. He goes, yeah, that'll 1266 01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:23.479 do it. He said, I'm taking you off jump status. I oh, 1267 01:21:23.560 --> 01:21:25.720 no, don't take me off jump status. You know, that's that's 1268 01:21:25.720 --> 01:21:30.920 my life, you know. Yeah that was an eighty two. Okay, 1269 01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:34.640 So in eighty four they discharged me and gave me a medical. I chose 1270 01:21:34.680 --> 01:21:38.960 the medical instead of being a desk jockey, and I had twenty years in 1271 01:21:39.439 --> 01:21:42.520 so I did that. But I'd still be in Peer Rescue if they'd let 1272 01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:48.079 me. And I still jump, by the way, So so yeah, 1273 01:21:48.119 --> 01:21:53.960 that's yeah. No, I loved I love Peer Rescue. Man. It 1274 01:21:54.000 --> 01:21:56.000 was great, and I still keep them touching. You know, they have 1275 01:21:56.119 --> 01:22:00.000 their reunion every other year, and they have a mini reunion in the years 1276 01:22:00.079 --> 01:22:02.159 in between, and the mini reunion this year is going to be in hell 1277 01:22:02.239 --> 01:22:05.399 and Georgia. So I'm going to run out there and I'll stay with my 1278 01:22:05.439 --> 01:22:09.439 brother. He lives in Chickapee, which is only forty five minutes away. 1279 01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:13.159 So yeah, so I'll take my brother and he can meet the other pjs. 1280 01:22:14.560 --> 01:22:16.000 But the if you want to see something really cool, go to a 1281 01:22:16.079 --> 01:22:21.239 Pera Rescue reunion. They're amazing, you know that. You be shocked with 1282 01:22:21.439 --> 01:22:26.000 they they take. They take from all the teams around the world. What 1283 01:22:26.079 --> 01:22:29.720 they do is they take one team from each group and they take the best 1284 01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:34.680 guys and then those guys they compete against each other at the reunion and you'd 1285 01:22:34.680 --> 01:22:40.359 be shocked what they get. The winners and stuff I mean rifles, guns 1286 01:22:40.920 --> 01:22:45.039 ATVs, all kinds of camping equipment, all kinds of stuff. I mean, 1287 01:22:45.079 --> 01:22:48.600 it's just freaking amazing. And I'm trying to get SA you know, 1288 01:22:48.640 --> 01:22:54.039 special Operations associated to do the same thing. There's a really interesting history too, 1289 01:22:54.039 --> 01:22:58.840 as far as like a crossover between both para rescue and smoke jumpers with 1290 01:22:58.920 --> 01:23:08.720 the c i A paramilitary guys during the Vietnam conflict. Yeah, I guess 1291 01:23:08.720 --> 01:23:11.840 pert rescue. I didn't know anything about PERST. I knew that the job 1292 01:23:12.079 --> 01:23:16.000 raised a super jolly you over there. Yeah, when when we got here 1293 01:23:16.279 --> 01:23:19.039 in trouble, they would come and get us. But I still didn't know 1294 01:23:19.039 --> 01:23:23.800 what pja's were, and i'd know anything about them. When I was in 1295 01:23:23.960 --> 01:23:29.680 sag Cia. I mean that the CIA was getting themselves killed. That's why 1296 01:23:29.720 --> 01:23:34.600 they brought SOG in because I mean I see some of these CIA guys and 1297 01:23:34.640 --> 01:23:38.159 they dressed up like cowboys. I mean they were on a cowboy hat and 1298 01:23:38.159 --> 01:23:41.039 they were going out there, you know what, the little Australian hat on. 1299 01:23:41.159 --> 01:23:45.279 And I mean it's like they didn't have the training that they needed and 1300 01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:49.600 they would get themselves hurt, which is really kind of sad. I think 1301 01:23:49.600 --> 01:23:53.079 they're a lot different now. You know, the guys over in the sandbox 1302 01:23:53.119 --> 01:23:55.920 and stuff. I think they're a lot different now because a lot of guys 1303 01:23:55.920 --> 01:23:59.560 in CIA now are guys from you know, Delta and CAG and all this 1304 01:23:59.600 --> 01:24:01.520 stuff. You know, I don't know how many pj's go into it, 1305 01:24:01.560 --> 01:24:04.119 but yeah, you know, it's a lot different now than it was back 1306 01:24:04.159 --> 01:24:08.800 in Vietnam. So after you were medically discharged, I mean, what what 1307 01:24:09.039 --> 01:24:11.399 I mean? You didn't slow down at all. You just kept golling. 1308 01:24:12.640 --> 01:24:17.000 Yeah. I went to school become a chiropractor, and I had a hard 1309 01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:20.279 time bending over because of my injuries in my back and everything, uh, 1310 01:24:20.760 --> 01:24:25.039 you know, to treat people. So I went and did a residency in 1311 01:24:25.119 --> 01:24:30.039 radiology and I was four point zero in radiology. I in pathology the same 1312 01:24:30.079 --> 01:24:34.680 way. And so I went to Saint Louis and I did my residency out 1313 01:24:34.680 --> 01:24:38.880 there. And so when I finished my residency, I came back. I 1314 01:24:38.920 --> 01:24:44.239 came to Tucson, Arizona. And what I did is I said a bunch 1315 01:24:44.279 --> 01:24:48.760 of letters to all the docks in Tucson and all the docks in Wisconsin, 1316 01:24:49.279 --> 01:24:55.359 Madison, Wisconsin area, and Tucson went out. They said we need you 1317 01:24:55.359 --> 01:24:59.079 here because they only they didn't have any They had one radiologist here for for 1318 01:24:59.199 --> 01:25:03.439 chiropractors, and so he was up in Phoenix, Gary Lungmier, And so 1319 01:25:03.600 --> 01:25:10.760 I came to Tucson and I was reading for over one hundred docs and chiropractor 1320 01:25:10.800 --> 01:25:13.319 for some reason, think they can read their own films, which is really 1321 01:25:13.399 --> 01:25:19.960 kind of tragic. But I ended up working for medical groups. So I 1322 01:25:20.119 --> 01:25:26.119 went. I went to work for Southwest Radiology here in Tucson and well up 1323 01:25:26.119 --> 01:25:30.159 in Tucson, and I opened up my own practice. Eventually, I wanted 1324 01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:35.479 to put an MRI in town and my own radiology suite. So what I 1325 01:25:35.520 --> 01:25:42.000 did is I kept pushing companies to finance me because it's a multimillion dollar deal. 1326 01:25:42.720 --> 01:25:46.479 And yeah, so I went to I got in touch with a group 1327 01:25:46.520 --> 01:25:51.840 called Modern Medical Modalities out of New York, and they came out and talked 1328 01:25:51.880 --> 01:25:55.880 with me, and they said, we want you to come out to New 1329 01:25:55.960 --> 01:25:58.479 York. So I went to New York. On they had a big Christmas 1330 01:25:58.479 --> 01:26:02.119 party, huge party at the Plaza Hotel, and so I went there and 1331 01:26:02.159 --> 01:26:06.520 they linked me up with a millionaire guy and I sat down and talked with 1332 01:26:06.600 --> 01:26:10.600 him and he goes, how many can you do? And I said, 1333 01:26:11.439 --> 01:26:15.479 I said, I guarantee you a hundred patients a month. And he said, 1334 01:26:15.520 --> 01:26:18.319 if you can guarantee me a hundred patients a month, you do the 1335 01:26:18.319 --> 01:26:20.399 write up, do all the paperwork on it. You know, let me 1336 01:26:20.479 --> 01:26:24.800 know what's showed me. Give me a you know what do you call it? 1337 01:26:24.920 --> 01:26:28.800 Just give me a folded with yeah, folded with all this information. 1338 01:26:29.319 --> 01:26:31.319 So I put everything together and he goes, okay, let's go. So 1339 01:26:31.520 --> 01:26:35.840 I did. I found a location and we went ahead and put the m 1340 01:26:35.960 --> 01:26:41.079 RY in there, put a cat scan in there, dexa scan, which 1341 01:26:41.119 --> 01:26:46.479 I think is worthless, general X ray, that kind of stuff. Everything 1342 01:26:46.479 --> 01:26:51.039 about mammography. Mammography is a pain in the neck. So went ahead and 1343 01:26:51.159 --> 01:26:57.079 just put all that together, and and I got a pay He got like 1344 01:26:57.119 --> 01:26:59.840 five thousand a month. So I was supposed to get a percentage, and 1345 01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:02.359 and he never I never got my percentage. So I told him, I 1346 01:27:02.359 --> 01:27:05.680 said, look, here's because he was the money end of it, and 1347 01:27:05.880 --> 01:27:11.239 he started changing everything. I would give everybody a rose, and that came 1348 01:27:11.359 --> 01:27:15.920 every patient a rose, and I had attorneys and doctors call me up, 1349 01:27:15.920 --> 01:27:18.000 said, you know that's a real nice touch, you know. But he 1350 01:27:18.079 --> 01:27:20.840 said, that's a waste of money. I mean we might end up with 1351 01:27:20.920 --> 01:27:24.640 one or two roses left over a day. That's one or two dollars a 1352 01:27:24.760 --> 01:27:29.720 day. And that bothered him. So we stopped that. And so then 1353 01:27:30.079 --> 01:27:33.760 we had a girl running around who would she would she would go and talk 1354 01:27:33.920 --> 01:27:36.319 all these docs and say, you know, hey, we've got this is 1355 01:27:36.359 --> 01:27:40.159 what we offer, you know, and what have you and try to bring 1356 01:27:40.239 --> 01:27:44.199 patients in. Well, he stopped that too. So when he didn't pay 1357 01:27:44.239 --> 01:27:46.079 me my percentage, I finally just said, look, here's the deal. 1358 01:27:46.079 --> 01:27:49.079 I want to check for twenty five thousand right now. And I said, 1359 01:27:49.199 --> 01:27:53.600 or I'm going to take it to court. So he wrote wrote me a 1360 01:27:53.640 --> 01:27:57.079 check for twenty five thousand. I left and opened up another business. And 1361 01:27:57.159 --> 01:28:01.199 so when I did that, he went down the tubes the place is. 1362 01:28:01.279 --> 01:28:03.520 I think it's gone now. I mean, it just went right down the 1363 01:28:03.560 --> 01:28:09.199 tubes. So when I opened up my other place, another guy comes walking 1364 01:28:09.239 --> 01:28:12.279 into my office and he goes, hey, we want you to read our 1365 01:28:12.399 --> 01:28:15.640 X rays. And I go I says, how much are you gonna pay 1366 01:28:15.720 --> 01:28:18.199 me? And he goes, we can give you five dollars a case. 1367 01:28:18.600 --> 01:28:21.680 I said, what's the other dock getting paid? Because this doc was getting 1368 01:28:23.000 --> 01:28:27.079 swamped with cases, so he wants somebody to read the cases for him. 1369 01:28:27.800 --> 01:28:30.000 So he says he was getting fifteen dollars a case. I said, tell 1370 01:28:30.079 --> 01:28:33.319 him, I'll split it with him seven to fifty a case. And he 1371 01:28:33.359 --> 01:28:36.159 came back and he goes, yeah, it's a deal. So I said 1372 01:28:36.199 --> 01:28:41.600 great. So I didn't do less than one hundred and fifty cases, one 1373 01:28:41.640 --> 01:28:45.520 hundred and sixty cases a day. I am around two hundred cases a day 1374 01:28:45.920 --> 01:28:49.439 at seven to fifty a case. So I was making good money. Yeah 1375 01:28:49.479 --> 01:28:54.479 you're busy though, Oh I was working twenty four to seven. Yeah. 1376 01:28:54.520 --> 01:28:57.560 Yeah, I mean I would go to bed and I'd get a phone calls 1377 01:28:57.600 --> 01:29:00.439 and we're sending you sixty cases. I did tolerate. I had six computers. 1378 01:29:00.720 --> 01:29:04.319 I was reading X rays from Kentucky, Los Angeles, San Diego, 1379 01:29:04.520 --> 01:29:09.880 Phoenix, and Tucson, and it was it was a friggin nightmare. That's 1380 01:29:09.920 --> 01:29:14.079 one day I did two hundred and seventy six cases and I just said I'm 1381 01:29:14.199 --> 01:29:21.399 done, So I quit and I retired. Yeah I still read. I 1382 01:29:21.439 --> 01:29:27.079 still read. In fact, I just picked up a book on wrist Emeriz 1383 01:29:27.159 --> 01:29:30.439 of the Wrists and Hands and stuff, and I'm reading that book right now. 1384 01:29:30.560 --> 01:29:33.399 I mean, all these books that you see right where are they? 1385 01:29:33.640 --> 01:29:40.079 Me? See right there? All those books right there are radiology. Those 1386 01:29:40.119 --> 01:29:44.359 are radiology books. But I mean, you know when when you say retirement, 1387 01:29:44.479 --> 01:29:46.439 like you kind of have to put that in air quotes, because I 1388 01:29:46.479 --> 01:29:51.039 mean, you're still flying, you're still half your hand in medicine a bit, 1389 01:29:51.239 --> 01:29:57.039 and you were talking about collecting media rights, and then you've also had 1390 01:29:57.079 --> 01:30:01.520 your experiences with DPIA. Yeah. I went back to that crash site in 1391 01:30:01.520 --> 01:30:05.880 Cambodia with DPA in twenty seventeen. They called me up and said, we're 1392 01:30:05.880 --> 01:30:09.439 going into that crash site. Would you like to go hi co? Yeah, 1393 01:30:09.439 --> 01:30:12.600 most definitely. So I was supposed to go there for two weeks. 1394 01:30:12.760 --> 01:30:15.960 They were going to be there for six weeks. So I went there for 1395 01:30:15.039 --> 01:30:18.439 the two weeks. And when I said goodbye to everybody and I was leaving, 1396 01:30:19.560 --> 01:30:23.319 the colonel said, we'd like that guy to stay here. So the 1397 01:30:23.319 --> 01:30:25.399 colonel says, would you like to stay here? And I go yeah, 1398 01:30:25.640 --> 01:30:28.359 So I went back out and I stayed there for six weeks with them, 1399 01:30:28.520 --> 01:30:31.640 you know, sifting through and digging and everything and looking for you know, 1400 01:30:31.760 --> 01:30:35.640 teeth or anything from the you know, pieces of old bone and plus you 1401 01:30:35.640 --> 01:30:40.720 know, I'm you know, my degree was an anthropology and a minor in 1402 01:30:40.800 --> 01:30:46.600 archaeology when I went into Caiopaths College. So I've got a big interest in 1403 01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:51.640 forensic anthropology. So I was, I was, I was, I could 1404 01:30:51.640 --> 01:30:54.920 pick out a bone when I see it, you know, versus like, 1405 01:30:54.920 --> 01:30:57.000 because they're gonna be brown, they're gonna look like a piece of wood, 1406 01:30:57.439 --> 01:30:59.880 you know. You know. So but I was good at that. And 1407 01:31:00.079 --> 01:31:03.840 the forensic antha pologies that they had was an m D and her and I 1408 01:31:03.880 --> 01:31:08.279 got along really good. She was a great gal. And we sit there 1409 01:31:08.319 --> 01:31:11.560 and talk and back and forth, and we could talk medicine back and forth 1410 01:31:11.600 --> 01:31:14.159 too, yeah, you know, pathology and stuff. So that was really 1411 01:31:14.239 --> 01:31:15.720 kind of good. So I stayed there for the whole six weeks and helped 1412 01:31:15.720 --> 01:31:17.800 them, and I still keep in touch with the guys. In fact that 1413 01:31:17.840 --> 01:31:21.560 I just contacted the guy just the other day. That just made sergeant major. 1414 01:31:21.800 --> 01:31:26.119 That's awesome. Well out of curiosity, you know, because you mentioned 1415 01:31:26.119 --> 01:31:29.720 she was a DPA or an MD, and and you know, and you 1416 01:31:29.760 --> 01:31:32.359 have this ability you know, you're used to seeing bones, seeing you know, 1417 01:31:32.520 --> 01:31:38.600 reading radiology, you know, reading stuff that's got to really play an 1418 01:31:38.640 --> 01:31:42.319 important part in archaeology right where, or not just archaeology, but in what 1419 01:31:42.359 --> 01:31:45.640 you're doing here in determining, like not just with the crash site, but 1420 01:31:45.720 --> 01:31:49.920 in determining like what actually happened to this person, like what was the trauma 1421 01:31:49.960 --> 01:31:54.000 and things like that. Right well, if you found a bone that would 1422 01:31:54.600 --> 01:31:57.520 that had a bullet hole in it or something, you know that they've probably 1423 01:31:57.600 --> 01:32:00.560 killed him right there at the site. I think that Alan Trump was actually 1424 01:32:00.600 --> 01:32:05.479 killed right there in the crash. And I think that Eric Kuber there's a 1425 01:32:05.600 --> 01:32:11.880 possibility because there's rumors that he might have been taken prisoner and died shortly after. 1426 01:32:12.239 --> 01:32:15.399 My guess he'd probably died before even got to the prison camp. You 1427 01:32:15.439 --> 01:32:18.359 know. One of the things is when I went back in twenty seventeen, 1428 01:32:18.399 --> 01:32:21.279 I was talking to Stony Beach there. I'm still in touch with the guys, 1429 01:32:21.920 --> 01:32:27.800 and they went down because the Vietnamese were there looking for their people and 1430 01:32:27.800 --> 01:32:31.319 they were killed in that battle. And I told him, I said, 1431 01:32:31.359 --> 01:32:34.119 let me draw you a map. So I drew a map. I said 1432 01:32:34.159 --> 01:32:36.279 take it to the guys down and tell him this is where they need to 1433 01:32:36.279 --> 01:32:39.840 look. And they looked at the map and they go, where'd you get 1434 01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:42.520 this map? And he goes, well, the guy that use guys were 1435 01:32:42.520 --> 01:32:45.560 trying to kill is up there on the hill looking for the two pilots. 1436 01:32:46.560 --> 01:32:49.840 And they said, well, we went into that area. He says, 1437 01:32:49.880 --> 01:32:55.159 so far we found one hundred and twenty seven remains. We're still missing over 1438 01:32:55.199 --> 01:32:59.840 one hundred. Yeah, and how many died after that battle, we don't 1439 01:32:59.840 --> 01:33:01.880 know. They have died in the hospitals and stuff, and and the place 1440 01:33:01.880 --> 01:33:06.439 didn't turn It turned out to be a hospital where the hooches were, and 1441 01:33:06.479 --> 01:33:12.159 everything turned out to be a hospital from people getting injured on the Hoachman trail. 1442 01:33:13.159 --> 01:33:15.079 I just wish they would have let us go. I don't know why 1443 01:33:15.079 --> 01:33:16.880 they don't just let you go in there and just get them there, you 1444 01:33:16.920 --> 01:33:20.800 know, get the bodies out and leave. You know, yeah, might 1445 01:33:20.920 --> 01:33:26.079 lose all those people over two dead Americans or something you know to me to 1446 01:33:26.199 --> 01:33:31.840 makes sense. But you know, do you have any opinions or speculation about 1447 01:33:32.279 --> 01:33:38.359 like the fifteen hundred plus Americans left you know that were m I A or 1448 01:33:38.399 --> 01:33:43.680 POW's do you have, and I don't want to put you on the spot 1449 01:33:43.720 --> 01:33:45.680 if you don't, but if you have any opinions or speculations about some of 1450 01:33:45.720 --> 01:33:50.359 that, it'd be interesting to hear. Oh, there we go. I 1451 01:33:50.399 --> 01:33:54.039 think a lot of the people, I think a lot of them died in 1452 01:33:54.079 --> 01:33:58.039 prison camp. I think a lot of them died on their way to the 1453 01:33:58.039 --> 01:34:00.600 prison camp, you know, especially guys who are did if they bled out, 1454 01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:02.960 they're going to carry the body. They're probably just gonna leave it on 1455 01:34:03.000 --> 01:34:09.399 the side of the trail. But I believe that when they did that was 1456 01:34:09.399 --> 01:34:16.000 that operation Welcome Going Home or Welcome Home or whatever. When they brought us. 1457 01:34:16.239 --> 01:34:20.119 Yeah, when they brought all those prisoners back to the States, well, 1458 01:34:20.640 --> 01:34:25.960 there was POW camps in South Vietnam, there was POW camps in Cambodia, 1459 01:34:26.039 --> 01:34:30.239 and POW camps in Laos. You can bet that they didn't have communications 1460 01:34:30.239 --> 01:34:32.199 going back and forth, so you know, it might have taken a week 1461 01:34:32.279 --> 01:34:35.319 or so to get them. So when they brought all those people and brought 1462 01:34:35.319 --> 01:34:40.079 all those POWs back, there was probably a lot of people left in those 1463 01:34:40.159 --> 01:34:44.520 prison camps, and who knows what happened to them, you know, because 1464 01:34:44.560 --> 01:34:46.439 the enemy said that, you know, the NBA said that we gave you 1465 01:34:46.520 --> 01:34:50.399 everybody we have, you know, and if somebody popped up, they're not 1466 01:34:50.399 --> 01:34:53.880 going to lose face. They're probably just gonna take them out right there, 1467 01:34:54.159 --> 01:35:00.479 right so, and which is really tragic. So I really believe that there 1468 01:35:00.520 --> 01:35:04.720 was quite a few left behind the prison camps from the other countries and they 1469 01:35:04.840 --> 01:35:10.000 just just killed him, which is sad. Yeah, I hate say that 1470 01:35:10.079 --> 01:35:15.880 because, you know, because people might be listening, but but yeah, 1471 01:35:15.039 --> 01:35:20.880 I mean, it's it's pretty tragic. Yeah. And the sad thing is 1472 01:35:20.880 --> 01:35:24.800 that at the end that the Eastern Offensive, I guess was the last big 1473 01:35:24.800 --> 01:35:28.359 push they were doing, coming across the DMZ to going to South Vietnam, 1474 01:35:28.399 --> 01:35:30.560 and that was going to be their last big push they were going to the 1475 01:35:30.640 --> 01:35:33.600 enemy was going to give up. They were going to end the war and 1476 01:35:33.640 --> 01:35:38.359 we would have won. And then the US, you know, listening to 1477 01:35:38.399 --> 01:35:42.279 all the hippies and everything and trying to keep their votes so they can stay 1478 01:35:42.279 --> 01:35:46.680 in office, and they threw the towel in. But you know, that's 1479 01:35:46.800 --> 01:35:50.199 really tragic, and they're still doing it. You know, look at look 1480 01:35:50.239 --> 01:35:56.800 at Biden just did over and and in the sandbox there you know, thirteen 1481 01:35:56.800 --> 01:36:00.840 guys killed right off the bat, leaving over Americans there. It's just tragic. 1482 01:36:00.119 --> 01:36:06.079 Yeah, our country's freaking gone down the tubes. So yeah, you 1483 01:36:06.079 --> 01:36:11.680 see what else can we talk about? Well a bit more about you know, 1484 01:36:11.720 --> 01:36:15.800 your quote unquote retirement. So you still fly around that, you still 1485 01:36:15.800 --> 01:36:19.920 collect metea rights? What's that about? What I do is I find that 1486 01:36:20.079 --> 01:36:23.720 locations, you know, I like they call it cold hunting when you just 1487 01:36:23.720 --> 01:36:26.600 go out in the desert and just look. If you can find a new 1488 01:36:26.640 --> 01:36:29.359 stream field, that'd be pretty good. Some metea ites are worth a lot 1489 01:36:29.359 --> 01:36:32.920 of money that In general, most of the old meteia rights you find are 1490 01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:39.199 roughly like anywhere from one to ten dollars a gram if and a gram is 1491 01:36:39.199 --> 01:36:44.840 about the size of a pea, a little green pea. And so if 1492 01:36:44.880 --> 01:36:46.920 you can find one that's they have different types of categories. You got iron 1493 01:36:46.960 --> 01:36:50.159 metea rights, but iron metea rights are surely five percent that comes from the 1494 01:36:50.199 --> 01:36:55.520 atmosphere or iron, and they usually come down in large prop quantity. You 1495 01:36:55.560 --> 01:36:57.920 know, if you look at the sick hotel end that came out of Russia, 1496 01:36:58.560 --> 01:37:03.039 there's one called Campbell date Cielo out of Argentina. There's a huge uh 1497 01:37:03.079 --> 01:37:06.239 the one that hit media creators, a big iron media right, it's called 1498 01:37:06.319 --> 01:37:13.279 Canyon Diablo. But there those those us to come down in big, huge 1499 01:37:13.760 --> 01:37:16.359 masses. But the the the stone ones that come down, like the one 1500 01:37:16.399 --> 01:37:21.600 that went in the Russia a few years that was called um I can't think 1501 01:37:21.640 --> 01:37:26.600 of it right off the head top of my head. But when those come 1502 01:37:26.680 --> 01:37:29.680 down, you know, like well, let's say the one that came down 1503 01:37:29.840 --> 01:37:34.960 in uh Sedan, it was called Almahatacida, which is Arabic for station six. 1504 01:37:36.760 --> 01:37:39.680 That one, when it came down, it was about the size a 1505 01:37:39.680 --> 01:37:43.720 little bit bigger than a Volkswagen. And when it hit the atmosphere, when 1506 01:37:43.720 --> 01:37:45.319 it by the time it hit on the ground, it was about the if 1507 01:37:45.359 --> 01:37:47.399 you put it all together, it be about the size of a grapefruit. 1508 01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:53.039 Wow. It burns up coming through the atmosphere quite a bit. And when 1509 01:37:53.079 --> 01:37:56.399 you see a meteor, you know, coming through the sky and you see 1510 01:37:56.399 --> 01:38:00.199 it, you know, flashing like this, yep, like that, it 1511 01:38:00.279 --> 01:38:04.159 is breaking up what it's traveling about seventeen eighteen thousand miles an hour. So 1512 01:38:04.199 --> 01:38:08.399 when it hits the atmosphere, it's like hitting concrete. It's like hitting the 1513 01:38:08.760 --> 01:38:12.159 ocean. So what it's doing is that the air can't get away from it 1514 01:38:12.239 --> 01:38:15.760 fast enough in the front and it just breaks it up. It just breaks 1515 01:38:15.760 --> 01:38:17.880 it up as it's coming in, you know, goes all that and the 1516 01:38:17.920 --> 01:38:21.600 air gets thicker, it's it's harder. It's hitting the media right harder. 1517 01:38:21.920 --> 01:38:26.119 So it just seven comes down to pieces. And so some of these ones 1518 01:38:26.119 --> 01:38:30.680 that are not iron are worth quite a bit of money. Yeah, actually 1519 01:38:30.720 --> 01:38:31.960 all of them can be. If you find a new iron one, it'd 1520 01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:34.840 be worth some money. If one that comes in, if you get it 1521 01:38:34.920 --> 01:38:38.479 like within a you know, most of them, they pick them up within 1522 01:38:38.520 --> 01:38:41.399 a week. The guys they do a lot. There's a lot of research 1523 01:38:41.439 --> 01:38:43.800 you can do, and you go out there and you find it. Those 1524 01:38:43.840 --> 01:38:45.439 are worth no less than one hundred dollars a gram, yeah when they first 1525 01:38:45.439 --> 01:38:48.800 got in. But if you get something like there was one that comes to 1526 01:38:48.840 --> 01:38:53.199 Sutter's Mill that came down in California a few years ago. Those are called 1527 01:38:53.199 --> 01:38:58.680 carbonaceous chondrites and they have a lot of carbon in them. Carbonaceous. Uh 1528 01:38:59.119 --> 01:39:03.079 though that one went for about two thousand dollars a gram. Wow. Yeah, 1529 01:39:03.119 --> 01:39:09.239 So most lunar meteaites, if they're new and you don't have a lot 1530 01:39:09.279 --> 01:39:13.119 of it. Are Martian meteorites. Those are worth about one thousand dollars a 1531 01:39:13.119 --> 01:39:18.560 gram. They what they do is when a meteor comes through and hits the 1532 01:39:18.600 --> 01:39:24.880 Moon or hits Mars, there's a very low gravitational pull there, so it 1533 01:39:25.039 --> 01:39:28.640 splashes and it calls the rocks to go out, and the further they go 1534 01:39:28.680 --> 01:39:30.920 out, they just keep going out into space. So when they're floating around 1535 01:39:30.960 --> 01:39:33.079 space, what they do is they get close to Earth, they get pulled 1536 01:39:33.119 --> 01:39:36.920 into the gravity. And so if you find one of the biggest areas for 1537 01:39:38.000 --> 01:39:42.800 meteorites is in the Sahara Desert, North Africa. It's called Northwest Africa. 1538 01:39:42.920 --> 01:39:45.560 If you go on eBay and look for media rights, you see nw A 1539 01:39:45.760 --> 01:39:48.960 Northwest Africa, and you'll see a number and that number because there's so many 1540 01:39:49.079 --> 01:39:55.039 of them. Because the the the bed what do they call the bedlin, 1541 01:39:55.319 --> 01:39:59.359 the run around the camels, pedouins. Yeah, when they're running around, 1542 01:39:59.800 --> 01:40:02.079 they find them and they just put them in bags and they take them into 1543 01:40:02.159 --> 01:40:05.680 like Morocco, and the dealers there will buy them from them, and then 1544 01:40:06.239 --> 01:40:12.159 what like guys on myself will buy them from the guys in Morocco and then 1545 01:40:12.239 --> 01:40:15.520 we sell sell them over if what I'd like to do is just go to 1546 01:40:15.600 --> 01:40:19.600 Morocco, just buy and bring them back and sell them wholesale to the meteorite 1547 01:40:19.600 --> 01:40:28.800 dealers here. Yeah, are there any really interesting myths, legends, conspiracies, 1548 01:40:29.680 --> 01:40:34.079 you know, anything around sort of the meteorite community that like enormy, 1549 01:40:34.239 --> 01:40:42.720 like jack orry like that we wouldn't know about. Yeah, there's lots of 1550 01:40:42.760 --> 01:40:47.000 different categories of meteorites. You know. If you take there's an iron one 1551 01:40:47.039 --> 01:40:53.399 called the attack site, and it's like looking at the core of the Earth 1552 01:40:54.039 --> 01:40:57.199 and they take It takes millions of years for these things to cool down, 1553 01:40:57.800 --> 01:41:00.520 so when they're going around out in space and stuff, they as you get 1554 01:41:00.560 --> 01:41:05.119 further away from that core, you start getting what's called a woodmint statin pattern, 1555 01:41:05.479 --> 01:41:10.119 and it crystallizes when it cools down over the millions of years, it 1556 01:41:10.159 --> 01:41:15.960 crystallizes, so you get a real fine it's called a fine woodman satin pattern 1557 01:41:15.239 --> 01:41:21.760 to a medium to a course. The one that came down in Russia, 1558 01:41:21.800 --> 01:41:26.760 the iron one there that was, of course they call it an octahedrite, 1559 01:41:27.119 --> 01:41:29.840 so there was a coarse one. But as you get into the stone, 1560 01:41:29.840 --> 01:41:31.640 as youre getting further close to the mantle. You know, you're getting all 1561 01:41:31.680 --> 01:41:38.319 these stones, and you'll get meteorites that have iron, meteorites that have oveline 1562 01:41:38.479 --> 01:41:42.399 or paradox crystals in them, you know. And then as you go further, 1563 01:41:42.439 --> 01:41:45.439 you start getting rock with olivine crystals in it, or you get what's 1564 01:41:45.439 --> 01:41:48.000 called the mesyl cinerite, which is it's got a lot of iron swirled in 1565 01:41:48.039 --> 01:41:53.479 it, you know. And then when you get to the my what my 1566 01:41:53.760 --> 01:41:56.760 opinion is, when you get to the mantle on the outside, you know, 1567 01:41:56.840 --> 01:42:00.760 the crust, then you're gonna get into carbonaceous chondrides. So and you 1568 01:42:00.800 --> 01:42:04.479 know, a lot of the scientists say that the asteroid belt was a planet 1569 01:42:04.520 --> 01:42:10.640 that never formed, but I would say probably a majority of the guys probably 1570 01:42:10.680 --> 01:42:14.039 think that it was a planet that they collided. It might have been going 1571 01:42:14.079 --> 01:42:17.920 the other direction and collided and it blew up and you got the fine ones 1572 01:42:17.960 --> 01:42:21.239 that are forming the rings around Saturn. Then you got the asteroid belt. 1573 01:42:21.399 --> 01:42:24.840 And so every once in a while I'll hit another one and to kick it 1574 01:42:24.840 --> 01:42:30.000 out of the gravitational pull and it'll float out in space and then it gets 1575 01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:32.920 close to Earth and atlands here or hits the Moon, or hits some other 1576 01:42:32.960 --> 01:42:39.760 planet. Out of curiousity, like, has there ever been an element discovered 1577 01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:43.479 from a media that we haven't encountered on? Oh? Yeah, yeah, 1578 01:42:43.520 --> 01:42:45.720 that's how you could. That's how we know how. Look, see, 1579 01:42:45.720 --> 01:42:47.039 we've been to the Moon, so we know what elements are on the Moon, 1580 01:42:47.479 --> 01:42:53.279 and we've got you know devices, you know, on Mars that's sending 1581 01:42:53.319 --> 01:42:56.520 back all kinds of information, So we know what elements are there. And 1582 01:42:56.560 --> 01:42:59.079 there are elements that we don't have on Earth, so we actually know where 1583 01:42:59.119 --> 01:43:02.079 they're coming from. They believe they've got some that came from Mercury, but 1584 01:43:02.479 --> 01:43:06.319 we've never been to Mercury, so we don't know for sure. But yeah, 1585 01:43:06.359 --> 01:43:12.680 so there it's kind of a guestimate. Yeah, but yeah, there's 1586 01:43:13.199 --> 01:43:15.000 The carbonaceous are worth quite a bit of money if you can find They're really 1587 01:43:15.079 --> 01:43:19.359 nice. There's one called the c One. I had four and a half 1588 01:43:19.359 --> 01:43:23.880 grams of it and it broke, so I kept one gram and I sold 1589 01:43:23.920 --> 01:43:28.479 three and a half grams get I set it to a gallup in Colorado and 1590 01:43:28.560 --> 01:43:30.199 she sold it for me because she knows a lot of heavy hitters around the 1591 01:43:30.239 --> 01:43:34.960 world. And my share was thirty five dollars. But what I did is 1592 01:43:35.119 --> 01:43:39.479 I traded it. I left it keep the money, and I took it. 1593 01:43:39.560 --> 01:43:43.920 I got the Almadasita, the station one out of Sedan, and then 1594 01:43:43.960 --> 01:43:46.840 I got I got a piece of the Tucson Ring, which is a famous 1595 01:43:46.880 --> 01:43:50.119 media right here in Tucson. They don't know, my guess is it's in 1596 01:43:50.159 --> 01:43:56.680 Mexico. But a guy, a blacksmith, found it and he used it 1597 01:43:56.680 --> 01:44:00.399 as an anvil, and it's sitting in Smithsonian now. But I had a 1598 01:44:00.399 --> 01:44:03.439 piece about the size of a quarter, and I had a hard time trying 1599 01:44:03.439 --> 01:44:06.720 to sell it, So I just I gave that one to and black Up 1600 01:44:06.800 --> 01:44:12.479 and she's got its impact as in a of her company and she's selling that 1601 01:44:12.520 --> 01:44:16.399 one for me. But it's probably worth about twenty five hundred, three thousand 1602 01:44:16.479 --> 01:44:23.039 dollars about the size of a quarter. And yeah, like who buys these 1603 01:44:23.079 --> 01:44:28.840 generally? Is it like aficionados and collectors or do do laboratories buy these? 1604 01:44:28.880 --> 01:44:32.640 Also? Some of the labs will buy them, but most of the media 1605 01:44:32.720 --> 01:44:36.159 right hunters like myself, we donate them. You know. I'll go to 1606 01:44:36.239 --> 01:44:44.600 ASU with what's his name? Lawrence Garvey is the curator for the media rights 1607 01:44:44.640 --> 01:44:47.680 up there. He's well known and Lawrence and our friends. So what I 1608 01:44:47.760 --> 01:44:51.079 do is, if I find something that he might not have or I need 1609 01:44:51.119 --> 01:44:55.720 it evaluated, I go up there and I'll call him up and he'll say, 1610 01:44:55.840 --> 01:44:58.720 I'll come down and get you, and he'll take me up into the 1611 01:44:58.720 --> 01:45:00.640 the area where they have their big lab. And they've got a huge lab. 1612 01:45:01.159 --> 01:45:05.960 I mean hits, it's huge. They got every kind of mediaite you 1613 01:45:06.000 --> 01:45:09.560 can think of up there. So but I'll give them to him, and 1614 01:45:09.600 --> 01:45:12.560 I donate a lot of meteorites to the Vatican. Yeah, I have to. 1615 01:45:12.640 --> 01:45:15.600 I have to ask Jim, you know, I want to follow up 1616 01:45:15.600 --> 01:45:18.560 about the Vatican definitely. Yeah, But like, how do you even find 1617 01:45:18.560 --> 01:45:21.479 a media right? Like you're describing things that are the size of a quarter 1618 01:45:21.640 --> 01:45:26.680 or even smaller. I mean, how do you that's a slice? That's 1619 01:45:26.680 --> 01:45:30.279 a When they found the Tucson Ring, it's a big ring, and the 1620 01:45:30.319 --> 01:45:32.079 guy used that as an anvil. There was a piece that stuck out in 1621 01:45:32.079 --> 01:45:36.359 the middle of the ring and they cut it off and then they sliced it 1622 01:45:36.439 --> 01:45:41.359 up and they sent it to all the labs around the world and the universities 1623 01:45:41.359 --> 01:45:43.520 and stuff to evaluate it. And study it. But I mean, how 1624 01:45:43.520 --> 01:45:45.560 do you even go about finding them in the desert in the first place. 1625 01:45:46.439 --> 01:45:49.199 This guy was on the ground. A lot of the stone media rights you 1626 01:45:49.239 --> 01:45:51.960 can find round on top of the ground. Really okay, yeah, they 1627 01:45:51.960 --> 01:45:55.840 don't they don't make good. You know. The one that can hit the 1628 01:45:55.880 --> 01:46:01.399 media crater that was that was probably the size of a two double wide sixty 1629 01:46:01.399 --> 01:46:06.319 foot trailers. You know that came in there. And my guess is it's 1630 01:46:06.319 --> 01:46:09.720 still down at the bottom. I think it blew down. The dirt cover 1631 01:46:09.800 --> 01:46:12.279 it over it. But you can go up there, and you know, 1632 01:46:12.560 --> 01:46:15.840 it's belongs to the Barringer family. It's called the Barringer Crater is the real 1633 01:46:15.920 --> 01:46:19.920 name of it. And it's on a lease to the US government and they 1634 01:46:19.960 --> 01:46:24.920 made it a national site so people can go and visit it. But it 1635 01:46:25.000 --> 01:46:29.119 still belongs to the Baringer Cret Baringer family and they live in Flagstaff, Arizona. 1636 01:46:29.760 --> 01:46:31.399 But you can't go out there and hunt. They don't want people out 1637 01:46:31.399 --> 01:46:34.880 there because some of these a good hunter will dig up the ground and look 1638 01:46:34.880 --> 01:46:38.800 for it, and if they take a metal detector and they can find it, 1639 01:46:39.000 --> 01:46:42.279 and then they dig it up and sometimes it's a it's a bullet or 1640 01:46:42.319 --> 01:46:45.159 a slug or something, or it could be a meteorite. So but a 1641 01:46:45.159 --> 01:46:48.520 lot of times they get so pissed they don't fill in the hole. So 1642 01:46:48.600 --> 01:46:51.279 what happens is cattle are through, they step in it, they break their 1643 01:46:51.359 --> 01:46:56.319 legs, right, So don't want anybody there. And I've actually found cattle 1644 01:46:56.359 --> 01:46:59.319 out there, you know, out by Tombstone, Arizona. I've been out 1645 01:46:59.319 --> 01:47:02.000 there hunting it and I've actually found cattle and you see they've got a broken 1646 01:47:02.079 --> 01:47:06.239 leg where they stepped down for a hole. So fill us in about how 1647 01:47:06.279 --> 01:47:10.840 you sell METEA rights to the Vatican or donate them to the Vatican. I 1648 01:47:10.840 --> 01:47:14.439 don't sell them to him. I I What I do is I go to 1649 01:47:14.479 --> 01:47:18.119 the the u of A University of Arizona and Tucson, and they have a 1650 01:47:18.159 --> 01:47:25.520 lot of the what do you call him astrophysicists there, and it's a big 1651 01:47:25.600 --> 01:47:31.680 METEA right Arizona State and a s U or big METEA right colleges. Uh. 1652 01:47:31.720 --> 01:47:35.199 So they when I'm up, what I do is I I go, 1653 01:47:35.520 --> 01:47:40.920 I go to lunch with these astrophysicists because they're more about the space stuff and 1654 01:47:40.960 --> 01:47:43.960 they're they're kind of interested when I bring a metea right and show them and 1655 01:47:44.039 --> 01:47:47.279 discuss, you know, and explain the media right to them. Because they're 1656 01:47:47.319 --> 01:47:51.079 there, they know a lot about the meteorite. Brother Guy consil Manu, 1657 01:47:51.239 --> 01:47:57.000 who's the curator for the metia rights for the Vatican. He's now in charge 1658 01:47:57.039 --> 01:48:00.359 of it, but they're the brother Bob Mack he is the new curator, 1659 01:48:00.760 --> 01:48:04.439 and we all know each other. So but we go have lunch and we'll 1660 01:48:04.479 --> 01:48:13.640 sit and talk. You know. A brother guy didn't have any The went 1661 01:48:13.720 --> 01:48:18.760 from Murchison out of Australia, which actually had twenty two amino acids in it 1662 01:48:19.039 --> 01:48:23.319 and it's carbonation's condract so he didn't have any. So I brought about three 1663 01:48:23.359 --> 01:48:25.720 or four of them up there, and I gave him a thin slice that 1664 01:48:25.760 --> 01:48:29.239 you can look under a microscope, and I said it, take whatever one 1665 01:48:29.239 --> 01:48:32.600 you want. And so him and I became good friends with that, and 1666 01:48:32.640 --> 01:48:35.199 so every once in a while I find one. I got a list of 1667 01:48:35.239 --> 01:48:39.039 all the media rights that he has, so if he doesn't have it and 1668 01:48:39.079 --> 01:48:43.439 I find one, I'll donate it to him. And he does a lot 1669 01:48:43.479 --> 01:48:45.479 of studying. He does a lot of research on medias. Yeah, it's 1670 01:48:45.479 --> 01:48:48.399 going to ask like, why is the Vatican so keen on media rights? 1671 01:48:48.439 --> 01:48:55.520 They have their own research facility scientific pursuits. Well, you know, I'm 1672 01:48:55.520 --> 01:48:59.359 a Christian, and so when I had lunch, when I have lunch with 1673 01:48:59.479 --> 01:49:02.079 Brother Guy, uh, he'll ask me, how do you feel about science 1674 01:49:02.199 --> 01:49:10.439 and and and and and Christianity and meteorites and stuff. And I told him, 1675 01:49:10.439 --> 01:49:14.399 I says, well, you know, it's the study of media study. 1676 01:49:14.800 --> 01:49:16.840 Science is the study of how God put it all together, right, 1677 01:49:16.920 --> 01:49:21.079 you know, That's the way I look at it. So, but they 1678 01:49:21.199 --> 01:49:27.920 if you there's a Mount Graham just north of here about I don't know about 1679 01:49:27.920 --> 01:49:31.800 one hundred and fifty miles or so, and there's a big telescope on the 1680 01:49:32.079 --> 01:49:38.840 top of them out it's actually a Vatican. Oh really, And that's how 1681 01:49:38.880 --> 01:49:41.560 I know a Bob and Brother Guy. Yeah, because they when if it's 1682 01:49:41.560 --> 01:49:45.119 cloudy, they'll come on down have lunch with us on Mondays when we get 1683 01:49:45.159 --> 01:49:47.960 together. Yeah. So so that's how I met him. But when brother 1684 01:49:48.000 --> 01:49:50.399 and I get together, we usually talk about old black and white movies and 1685 01:49:50.399 --> 01:49:57.920 stuff. So, yeah, you you mentioned these amino acids and an asteroid. 1686 01:49:57.960 --> 01:50:02.119 Have you met with like astrobiologists and people like that who study this stuff. 1687 01:50:02.920 --> 01:50:05.479 Yeah, I've probably got a I don't know, fifty or sixty books 1688 01:50:05.479 --> 01:50:11.920 on meteorites, you know that I've read and and I read a lot of 1689 01:50:11.920 --> 01:50:15.640 science books. I really don't read novels. I read mostly science books. 1690 01:50:15.840 --> 01:50:23.600 I just finished one on transgenderism. It's called the End of Sex, the 1691 01:50:23.680 --> 01:50:29.920 End of Gender, the End of Gender by doctor Debrasaux. And she's she's 1692 01:50:29.960 --> 01:50:33.680 a sexologist that got into all that stuff, and so the books about you 1693 01:50:33.880 --> 01:50:38.520 thick. But I went ahead and I just finished it yesterday. I was 1694 01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:41.479 doing laundry, so I was sitting and reading all my laundry. Yeah, 1695 01:50:41.560 --> 01:50:44.920 so I found finished it. But so, but I read a lot of 1696 01:50:45.039 --> 01:50:46.159 books like that. I've read an awful lot. Like I'm right now, 1697 01:50:46.159 --> 01:50:49.880 I'm reading a book on amri the hand and wrist fresh from my memory. 1698 01:50:50.359 --> 01:50:54.079 Yeah, you know, because you can't when you're radiologists, you can't know 1699 01:50:54.159 --> 01:50:57.720 everything. You got to know where to look. That's the big secret. 1700 01:50:57.720 --> 01:51:00.319 You got to know where to look. What have you talked to any like 1701 01:51:00.600 --> 01:51:04.640 any astrobiologists about their thoughts of like finding things like amino acids or these like 1702 01:51:04.720 --> 01:51:10.960 these things in like what do they say about about or what are their theories 1703 01:51:11.079 --> 01:51:16.279 about like extraterrestrial life and whatnot. Oh, I think it's kind of silly 1704 01:51:16.319 --> 01:51:23.319 to think that we're the only humans and or the only living people or shores 1705 01:51:23.439 --> 01:51:27.079 or whatever in the universe. I mean, you look at all those stars 1706 01:51:27.079 --> 01:51:30.239 out there, are suns like our son, right, and I mean, 1707 01:51:30.319 --> 01:51:34.000 heck, what is it one hundred and twenty five thousand light years across our 1708 01:51:34.039 --> 01:51:39.399 galaxy or something like that, right, And there's galaxies that there's millions of 1709 01:51:39.439 --> 01:51:42.119 galaxies out there, billions of them, right, So yeah, to think 1710 01:51:42.159 --> 01:51:44.479 that we're the only ones out here, it would be kind of crazy. 1711 01:51:44.960 --> 01:51:49.119 But but but but I'm just curious in terms of like what they've found in 1712 01:51:49.720 --> 01:51:54.880 asteroids or what they've found amino acids, like the building the building block of 1713 01:51:55.439 --> 01:51:58.319 right. Yeah. Yeah, so, like, well, they don't believe 1714 01:51:58.359 --> 01:52:02.159 that carbonation chondrites are actually at the crust of another planet that might have exploded. 1715 01:52:02.920 --> 01:52:06.079 They think it's a different kind of a carbon than what we know is 1716 01:52:06.119 --> 01:52:11.159 carbon, like charcoal. I think it's different, but it's really it's black, 1717 01:52:11.319 --> 01:52:14.560 just like like when a metwright, when a stony metia comes in and 1718 01:52:14.640 --> 01:52:17.159 hits the ground, it actually bounces along the ground and you can pick them 1719 01:52:17.239 --> 01:52:23.840 right up. They're not hot like people think, and there's no radioactive activity 1720 01:52:23.840 --> 01:52:27.079 coming off of it. You can just pick them up. But what you 1721 01:52:27.159 --> 01:52:30.159 do is you put them in tinfoil because you know you don't want to you 1722 01:52:30.199 --> 01:52:33.399 don't want to disturb the what's on there. It'll pick up dirt on the 1723 01:52:33.399 --> 01:52:38.319 ground, obviously, but then you put it in tinfoil, and then you 1724 01:52:38.359 --> 01:52:41.720 can give it the A scientists and they can evaluate it and they'll tell you 1725 01:52:41.720 --> 01:52:44.640 what kind of media right it is. And because you have like h's and 1726 01:52:44.840 --> 01:52:49.520 l's H means there's more iron flakes in the stone than an L has low 1727 01:52:49.920 --> 01:52:54.960 iron flakes in the stone. And then they like, there's one that came 1728 01:52:55.000 --> 01:52:59.039 down in Wholebrook, Arizona, and it's an L L six, which and 1729 01:52:59.119 --> 01:53:01.159 the six is more the little conrols and that kind of thing in there. 1730 01:53:01.359 --> 01:53:08.119 But the LL mean ultra are very low metal in it. But you in 1731 01:53:08.159 --> 01:53:10.760 the up there, there's so much middle in the ground, salts on the 1732 01:53:10.800 --> 01:53:13.399 ground, you can't really use the metal detector. You got to use your 1733 01:53:13.439 --> 01:53:15.680 eyesight. And I found him up there. You can walk around you can 1734 01:53:15.680 --> 01:53:18.560 find him. After a rainstorm, they might be sitting on the surface, 1735 01:53:18.800 --> 01:53:21.800 so you can you can find them. They usually come up on the surface. 1736 01:53:23.479 --> 01:53:25.800 You never notice, like if you make a ground nice and smooth, 1737 01:53:25.800 --> 01:53:28.760 then after a rainstorm, while the rocks are on the surface, Yeah, 1738 01:53:29.119 --> 01:53:31.880 it's kind of like that, they come to the surface. My first media 1739 01:53:31.920 --> 01:53:35.800 right was six hundred and seventy eight grams. I found it up in Franconia. 1740 01:53:35.800 --> 01:53:41.319 It came down about seven thousand years ago, and it was named after 1741 01:53:41.359 --> 01:53:45.319 a train station called Franconia, and it's long gone now, but they still 1742 01:53:45.319 --> 01:53:49.479 call it that. But I found it thirteen inches under the ground and I 1743 01:53:49.640 --> 01:53:55.239 just got done digging up a fifty caliber slug and I went around the bush 1744 01:53:55.239 --> 01:53:57.920 and I got the same signal again, and I go, it's probably, 1745 01:53:58.079 --> 01:54:00.039 but you got to dig it up. So I dug it up, and 1746 01:54:00.079 --> 01:54:02.680 all of a sudden, I started seeing rusty soil and I'm going, whoa. 1747 01:54:02.800 --> 01:54:04.720 And I got down a little deeper and I pulled it out of the 1748 01:54:04.760 --> 01:54:10.239 ground. You know, I just gave it to my granddaughter. That's very 1749 01:54:10.279 --> 01:54:15.359 cool, such an interesting like passion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's 1750 01:54:15.399 --> 01:54:19.399 interesting. Yeah, it's And I got a really close buddy in New York. 1751 01:54:19.399 --> 01:54:25.680 The medical doctor's world renowned. Yeah, he's really big into meteorites and 1752 01:54:25.720 --> 01:54:29.640 he's written he's written books on how he thinks life came to the Earth because 1753 01:54:29.640 --> 01:54:33.399 he thinks that life might have come here by C one condrites, which is 1754 01:54:33.439 --> 01:54:40.720 a carbonation condrite. And there's only been three of them ever found. You 1755 01:54:40.760 --> 01:54:45.039 know, they find pieces of it, but only three falls. And I 1756 01:54:45.079 --> 01:54:46.439 had two of the falls, but I just kept the one piece. I 1757 01:54:46.520 --> 01:54:50.520 had over four hundred different falls in my collection and it was just getting ridiculous, 1758 01:54:50.880 --> 01:54:55.760 so I just kept different classes and just sold the rest off for don't 1759 01:54:55.800 --> 01:54:58.399 do you have any questions for Jim? Let me check do you have anything 1760 01:54:58.439 --> 01:55:02.479 on Pictundy? I just want to see we might probably have some fewer questions 1761 01:55:02.479 --> 01:55:04.720 for you, Jim that I want to get to. Yeah, that's great. 1762 01:55:04.720 --> 01:55:11.880 I love fewer questions. You know one thing we haven't don youse, 1763 01:55:11.880 --> 01:55:16.600 guys haven't done oh cures. Yeah, let me let me get a little 1764 01:55:16.640 --> 01:55:19.760 poor. What are you drinking tonight, Jim? You know what, I 1765 01:55:19.800 --> 01:55:26.039 had some provacier earlier and it didn't go down right. So this is this 1766 01:55:26.119 --> 01:55:35.800 is more creamy. It's kalua guh, yeah, what do you got the 1767 01:55:36.199 --> 01:55:41.880 Yeah? Sure, all right, we have from Joel uh. Given we 1768 01:55:42.000 --> 01:55:46.600 might have to fight each Asia again and are hardwired for desert mountain warfare, 1769 01:55:46.640 --> 01:55:53.399 what are some of the younger service members slash veterans I need to know about 1770 01:55:53.399 --> 01:56:02.319 the theater, the terrain and potential adversaries that isn't talked about now. What 1771 01:56:02.439 --> 01:56:05.560 is he actually asking? What's the terrain like back then and what it is 1772 01:56:05.600 --> 01:56:10.840 now? I guess what he's asking is like because we're like, we're not 1773 01:56:10.920 --> 01:56:15.760 ready exactly we had to go back into Southeast Asia militarily. Yeah, maybe 1774 01:56:15.760 --> 01:56:19.560 some lessons lost might be because now because we've been focused on like more desert 1775 01:56:19.560 --> 01:56:26.000 warfare. Well, you know, that's kind of interesting because when we were 1776 01:56:26.000 --> 01:56:29.000 going to Vietnam, you know, we were learning all the stuff from World 1777 01:56:29.039 --> 01:56:33.279 War Two in Korea, and and I think a lot of the guys that 1778 01:56:33.319 --> 01:56:39.560 were training up for desert warfare before the war actually broke out, they were 1779 01:56:39.600 --> 01:56:43.520 learning a lot of Vietnam stuff. So if there's another war that breaks out, 1780 01:56:43.600 --> 01:56:46.159 I think in between, I think we got enough knowledge now. They 1781 01:56:46.159 --> 01:56:49.520 should have enough knowledge just from Africa, you know, during World War Two. 1782 01:56:51.159 --> 01:56:55.079 But I think that. I think if we get into another war right 1783 01:56:55.119 --> 01:56:58.680 now, we're going to be in trouble because our country is really weak with 1784 01:56:58.720 --> 01:57:02.560 this woke garbage and stuff. It's just insane. It's crazy what's going on 1785 01:57:02.600 --> 01:57:09.359 now, So they would definitely be in trouble. I don't know. I 1786 01:57:09.359 --> 01:57:12.439 don't know any other way to answer that, because the young guys, you 1787 01:57:12.479 --> 01:57:15.960 know, right, you know when I went through it was when I went 1788 01:57:15.000 --> 01:57:18.560 out into the jungle, I just wore my shirt halftime. My shirt was 1789 01:57:18.600 --> 01:57:24.520 open because it's like one hundred and twenty degrees in that typle canopy, and 1790 01:57:24.800 --> 01:57:28.239 we didn't wear any protection. I wore a cavat on my hair to hide 1791 01:57:28.279 --> 01:57:31.000 my red hair. You can darken your face if you want, but you 1792 01:57:31.039 --> 01:57:36.159 know, it's just gonna melt. It's just gonna sweat off. But you 1793 01:57:36.199 --> 01:57:40.000 know, today, I don't know how the guys do it today, going 1794 01:57:40.039 --> 01:57:44.000 around that sandbox with all this gear on them and stuff in that temperature. 1795 01:57:44.199 --> 01:57:47.399 I don't know how they do it. So it's totally appear for Jim. 1796 01:57:49.119 --> 01:57:54.600 Yeah, let's hear it. I just lost it, okay. I actually 1797 01:57:54.760 --> 01:57:59.239 just one from Cormyn. Thanks Manny, Thanks buddy who said hit the like 1798 01:57:59.279 --> 01:58:01.000 and subscribe. I have a couple. I have a couple, Okay. 1799 01:58:02.319 --> 01:58:05.159 From m Corbyn. Will the public ever know the names of all the po 1800 01:58:05.399 --> 01:58:10.960 w's m I as from the Vietnam conflict that was that supposedly never existed? 1801 01:58:12.880 --> 01:58:15.520 Yes, that you can find those names now. They got the names of 1802 01:58:15.520 --> 01:58:18.159 all the people that are missing in Laos Scambodia. It's it. We couldn't 1803 01:58:18.199 --> 01:58:21.119 talk about it for I think it was twenty or thirty years. And then 1804 01:58:21.159 --> 01:58:26.399 Johnny Plaster came out with his book, you know, Commandos or whatever it 1805 01:58:26.439 --> 01:58:32.159 was, and Johnny and I we were at CCC together. But yeah, 1806 01:58:32.239 --> 01:58:34.840 now you can, you can. It's all been opened up now and if 1807 01:58:34.840 --> 01:58:38.399 you research it, you'll find the names of all the people that are missing. 1808 01:58:38.680 --> 01:58:42.640 Yeah. Well more from Jimbo. Did you ever use or work with 1809 01:58:42.760 --> 01:58:48.640 conventional army dust off, regular army dust off in Vietnam? I did, 1810 01:58:48.720 --> 01:58:53.319 Yeah, regular army. The chops were coming. We had guys wounded when 1811 01:58:53.319 --> 01:58:57.520 I was out there. On Frank Miller, you know Frank Miller, the 1812 01:58:57.720 --> 01:59:00.479 Metal of a Recipient. Yeah, him and I served together at A five 1813 01:59:00.600 --> 01:59:06.439 or two and he if you read his book Reflections Reflections of a warrior. 1814 01:59:06.520 --> 01:59:11.640 I think it was. He's talking about a guy named Carlson that was killed 1815 01:59:12.079 --> 01:59:15.159 and that happened right outside of my camp when my outpost, and so we 1816 01:59:15.239 --> 01:59:19.560 brought brought him in and we've got him on a dust off. But he 1817 01:59:19.600 --> 01:59:24.359 didn't make it. He passed away. Kind of a sad story. It 1818 01:59:24.439 --> 01:59:27.840 didn't go down the way Frank put it in the book. But Frank was 1819 01:59:28.479 --> 01:59:30.920 he was your rambo. He was really quite a guy. If you got 1820 01:59:30.920 --> 01:59:34.039 in trouble, you either want Frank Miller to come after you, you want 1821 01:59:34.039 --> 01:59:40.840 Bob Howard to come after you. Good. Is there any possible of a 1822 01:59:40.920 --> 01:59:44.920 Jim shortened book? Yes, I'm working on a book. Wow, I'm 1823 01:59:44.960 --> 01:59:46.640 in a bunch of books. I'm in like sixteen books. Yeah, you 1824 01:59:46.680 --> 01:59:50.640 know, even the radiology books. I'm in it, you know, just 1825 01:59:50.720 --> 01:59:56.279 like thirty papers and stuff. But uh, yeah, I'm working on a 1826 01:59:56.279 --> 01:59:58.359 book. I'm gonna there's about five. I want to do a couple of 1827 01:59:58.479 --> 02:00:02.279 children's books, and I want to do uh one on cod grade four. 1828 02:00:02.800 --> 02:00:10.199 I want to do one on SOG, one on my life story, you 1829 02:00:10.239 --> 02:00:14.000 know, and maybe one on Vietnam. I want to do one of PJS 1830 02:00:14.000 --> 02:00:15.479 too, because there's very few books out there on pay rescue. Yeah, 1831 02:00:15.560 --> 02:00:19.079 yeah, I hope you do. Jim. When you guys were going out, 1832 02:00:19.199 --> 02:00:24.439 you know, you know, whether it was when you're with SF or 1833 02:00:24.479 --> 02:00:28.880 when you moved on to CCN, what was your standard carry? Did they? 1834 02:00:28.960 --> 02:00:31.399 Did you have flexibility? Like did you have a standard carry? We 1835 02:00:32.479 --> 02:00:36.840 controlled everything. We took the weapons we wanted. We went in the way 1836 02:00:36.880 --> 02:00:42.720 we wanted. Uh we we we we're the ones fighting. The guys in 1837 02:00:42.760 --> 02:00:45.000 camp did know how to fight, you know. I mean they might have 1838 02:00:45.039 --> 02:00:47.560 fought in career or something like that. They're older guys, but the recon 1839 02:00:47.680 --> 02:00:54.079 guys, they they pretty much ran the show for themselves. How I wanted 1840 02:00:54.079 --> 02:00:58.039 to go in, how many people I wanted to take with me? Like 1841 02:00:58.119 --> 02:01:01.680 on the three men uh bright Light, I just took two other guys myself. 1842 02:01:01.840 --> 02:01:03.800 Yeah, you know, they don't say, oh, don't do that, 1843 02:01:04.199 --> 02:01:08.720 you know, But I carried about I would say, between thirty and 1844 02:01:08.760 --> 02:01:14.880 three six magazines. I carried a five court bladder and a canteen of water 1845 02:01:14.920 --> 02:01:19.319 on my on my side, I had the bladder in my backpack, and 1846 02:01:19.359 --> 02:01:25.560 we had this little tiny rucksack and I'd put a camouflage parachute panel in it 1847 02:01:25.920 --> 02:01:30.840 in case got really cold. And let me see, I had I put 1848 02:01:31.079 --> 02:01:35.680 five cans of peaches in there. All the missions were usually five days. 1849 02:01:36.199 --> 02:01:40.479 Most of them lasted anywhere from one to three days because you got and you 1850 02:01:40.560 --> 02:01:45.479 got in contact. But the can I put the cans in there, and 1851 02:01:45.520 --> 02:01:47.359 that's only eight was one can of peaches a day. Wow, And that 1852 02:01:47.479 --> 02:01:49.680 kept me going. But I was a young guy then, you know, 1853 02:01:49.840 --> 02:01:57.199 so, and you chose whatever weapon you want. And the car fifteen that 1854 02:01:57.239 --> 02:02:00.319 we had that was probably the best little weapon. When I was down at 1855 02:02:00.319 --> 02:02:04.199 P fifty three, I carried a Swedish k one time. That was an 1856 02:02:04.239 --> 02:02:10.279 interesting story. When I was down there, I uh, we were sitting 1857 02:02:10.319 --> 02:02:14.439 in the R O N and we heard noise coming through coming towards us, 1858 02:02:14.920 --> 02:02:16.000 and so I, you know, you know, the sweetsh cave fires from 1859 02:02:16.000 --> 02:02:19.399 an open boat. So I took it off and got ready, and all 1860 02:02:19.399 --> 02:02:24.319 of a sudden the bushes opened up and a tiger walked in. Wow a 1861 02:02:24.319 --> 02:02:28.119 little he just walked in. He just looked at us, looked actually looked 1862 02:02:28.159 --> 02:02:31.640 at me, and then he just backed out and walked away. Insane. 1863 02:02:32.000 --> 02:02:39.399 Yeah, really kind of funny. Yeah, uh think Yeah, I think 1864 02:02:39.439 --> 02:02:43.840 I carried a Newsy one time, and one time I carried a silence stoozy. 1865 02:02:44.239 --> 02:02:46.920 I had a stend gun that was silenced as well. That was really 1866 02:02:47.000 --> 02:02:50.399 a nice silence swap in the standown. Yeah. Yeah, you take it. 1867 02:02:50.560 --> 02:02:54.000 You take a little piece of leather and you put it between the boat 1868 02:02:54.000 --> 02:02:58.479 and the chamber, so when the boat comes down, the leather will keep 1869 02:02:58.520 --> 02:03:02.520 it quiet. Yeah, as long as still seats around. Yeah. Him, 1870 02:03:03.159 --> 02:03:06.279 Thank you so much for spending your Friday evening with us and telling us 1871 02:03:06.279 --> 02:03:11.479 about your story. You had a really incredible career in life, and you 1872 02:03:11.479 --> 02:03:13.479 know, when your book comes out, let us know, you know, 1873 02:03:13.520 --> 02:03:16.840 we'd love to have you on the show again to talk about it. Yeah, 1874 02:03:16.880 --> 02:03:20.479 and for folks out there next Friday, we're going to have another Vietnam 1875 02:03:20.560 --> 02:03:26.239 veteran on Herschel Davis served in the Navy Seals for a good long time. 1876 02:03:26.920 --> 02:03:29.880 Oh, very cool. I worked with quite a bit of the Navy Seals. 1877 02:03:30.239 --> 02:03:32.439 Oh really. When I was in the reserves. We did a raid 1878 02:03:32.479 --> 02:03:38.199 on Angel Island. We did a raid on Alcatraz with the Seal Team one. 1879 02:03:39.479 --> 02:03:42.079 That's cool. Yeah, and yeah, they're they're a great bunch of 1880 02:03:42.159 --> 02:03:44.359 guys. Man I love the Seals. They're a great bunch of guys. 1881 02:03:44.479 --> 02:03:46.600 That after Alcatraz was shut down, you guys used that as a training site. 1882 02:03:46.680 --> 02:03:49.279 Yes, it was right after the movie Gauntlet was filmed on it, 1883 02:03:49.319 --> 02:03:51.239 you know when they blew up that, because all the rebel was still there 1884 02:03:51.239 --> 02:03:56.640 from when they blew the tower. You mean the Clint Eastwood movie. Yeah, 1885 02:03:56.960 --> 02:04:01.159 yeah, that's funny. And the the Seal team was they were their 1886 02:04:01.199 --> 02:04:04.640 security and they had a guy in the prison. So what we did is 1887 02:04:04.680 --> 02:04:10.039 we came down underneath the Golden Gate and Hweiye's like four feet off. The 1888 02:04:10.079 --> 02:04:14.640 water came up instead of diversion, and then all the Seals came to battle 1889 02:04:14.720 --> 02:04:16.199 us out because they thought we were coming, and so we had another chopper 1890 02:04:16.239 --> 02:04:19.319 coming from the south side. They went in and took the guy out of 1891 02:04:19.359 --> 02:04:25.239 prison and got him out of there. I lived on that one, but 1892 02:04:25.279 --> 02:04:28.600 we did one on Agent Island and the Seals man, they just kicked my 1893 02:04:28.680 --> 02:04:32.600 they cleaned my butt. They killed me. We had a team another deal 1894 02:04:32.640 --> 02:04:36.359 with the Navy Seals out in Texas where they had a missile and we had 1895 02:04:36.359 --> 02:04:40.119 to go in and get the missile. We got the missile out and we 1896 02:04:40.199 --> 02:04:44.439 had to carry and that was that was an amazing mission. We had specter 1897 02:04:44.560 --> 02:04:48.800 over us and they were ten thousand feet up in the air and our team 1898 02:04:48.880 --> 02:04:51.920 leader goes, hey, do you have us? And he goes move. 1899 02:04:53.560 --> 02:04:58.720 We moved about not even ten feet. I got thirteen guys and they picked 1900 02:04:58.800 --> 02:05:02.720 from cattle. It was cattle out in the field. There was out there 1901 02:05:03.239 --> 02:05:06.199 and we managed to go through there and they actually saw every one of us 1902 02:05:06.199 --> 02:05:12.399 from ten thousand feet. It was amazing. Yeah, Jim, anything you 1903 02:05:12.439 --> 02:05:15.279 want to tell people about a promote or a website you want to send people 1904 02:05:15.279 --> 02:05:23.640 to before we get going for the evening, I well, I wish I 1905 02:05:23.680 --> 02:05:27.159 could think of, Oh, if you want to check out a cool with 1906 02:05:27.199 --> 02:05:30.520 the Navy swimmer, I mean the Coast Guard swimmer. He's really a great 1907 02:05:30.520 --> 02:05:39.760 guy, and it's called rescue, our quest, rescue, rescue, it's 1908 02:05:40.199 --> 02:05:45.479 our rescue. It's rest rest with a queue at the end. And if 1909 02:05:45.520 --> 02:05:48.960 you look at him, that would help, that would help him out quite 1910 02:05:49.000 --> 02:05:55.000 a bit. He's over in Saudi Arabia and one of my PJ brothers was 1911 02:05:55.039 --> 02:05:59.039 over there and told him about me and he had me on the show. 1912 02:05:59.720 --> 02:06:02.199 So but they're both over the other guys working as a what do you call 1913 02:06:02.239 --> 02:06:05.680 those guys that are civilians got out of Pair of Rescue and he's working rescue 1914 02:06:05.680 --> 02:06:10.920 over the contractor. And you know you you mentioned the Pair of Rescue reunions, 1915 02:06:10.920 --> 02:06:15.520 but you're also involved with the Special Operations Association. Yeah. In fact, 1916 02:06:15.560 --> 02:06:16.680 they just contact me the other day they want me to you know, 1917 02:06:16.720 --> 02:06:23.960 they have a scholarship foundation and they were looking for people to read the essays 1918 02:06:23.960 --> 02:06:27.359 that people are write in they try and get their scholarship. And so I 1919 02:06:27.399 --> 02:06:30.039 said, yeah, I'll be more than happy to help you with that. 1920 02:06:30.479 --> 02:06:31.880 And the next thing I know, they had me fill out the paperwork to 1921 02:06:31.920 --> 02:06:36.600 be the guy in charge of the chairperson. So there you go. Yeah, 1922 02:06:36.720 --> 02:06:41.000 that's what you get. That's a combination of being a Green Beret, 1923 02:06:41.079 --> 02:06:45.319 a Pair of Rescue guy, and also an academic and also being in the 1924 02:06:45.399 --> 02:06:47.720 Navy and a former sailor exactly. Yeah, yeah, we can't we can't 1925 02:06:47.760 --> 02:06:51.560 leave that out. Absolutely. Well, Jim, thank you again for doing 1926 02:06:51.600 --> 02:06:55.560 this interview. Really appreciate it, and you know, I hope to talk 1927 02:06:55.560 --> 02:06:58.760 to you again when you start, you know, ready to publish some of 1928 02:06:58.800 --> 02:07:03.319 these books about your life or about Pj's or Macvie, sag or whatever it 1929 02:07:03.359 --> 02:07:05.960 is. The kids books, Yeah, we love to talk to you about 1930 02:07:05.960 --> 02:07:08.800 it. Yeah, the kids books. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you 1931 02:07:08.840 --> 02:07:11.079 know when I was when I was making Colorado, I had a dog named 1932 02:07:11.119 --> 02:07:13.159 Mush. I think I sent you a picture when I was a little kid 1933 02:07:13.239 --> 02:07:15.840 with the dog. Yeah. So what I want to do is write the 1934 02:07:15.840 --> 02:07:18.439 true stories with Mush and I. When we went out in the woods. 1935 02:07:19.359 --> 02:07:23.399 I remember we came across bears. We came across we had a deer come 1936 02:07:23.439 --> 02:07:29.000 aftress. Luckily the deer it was a it was a buck, and already 1937 02:07:29.000 --> 02:07:31.760 lost his antlers, you know, he dropped his antlers already, but he 1938 02:07:32.159 --> 02:07:35.119 tried to butt us around, tried to check my dog. But it's a 1939 02:07:35.199 --> 02:07:38.680 lot of fun stories. I had at one time where I heard the pounding 1940 02:07:38.680 --> 02:07:41.520 on the ground and I got by a rock and the deer jumped over the 1941 02:07:41.600 --> 02:07:44.199 rock, you know, coming down a hill and the rock was here and 1942 02:07:44.239 --> 02:07:45.600 the hill went down. They jumped over the rock right over on top of 1943 02:07:45.720 --> 02:07:48.520 us. I think it'd make a great children's book. I had a lot 1944 02:07:48.560 --> 02:07:55.199 of great stories with a dog. That sounds awesome. So all right, 1945 02:07:55.279 --> 02:08:00.279 Jim, So next Friday, Herschel Davis, Jim Shorten, thanks again man, 1946 02:08:00.560 --> 02:08:03.520 and I appreciate it. Yeah, everyone out there, have a great 1947 02:08:03.520 --> 02:08:07.720 rest of your weekend you too, and have Saint Patrick's stay. I'm Irish, 1948 02:08:07.720 --> 02:08:15.680 by the way, so much IRIVERPO. All right, so I have 1949 02:08:15.760 --> 02:08:18.039 a great day. Thank you very much for the interview. Absolutely thank you.