1 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,160 And I just turned around and I call ass out of there. I was 2 00:00:07,679 --> 00:00:14,599 done. I wasn't deal with them. The hypocrisy of the cult is one 3 00:00:14,599 --> 00:00:22,199 of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my head 4 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,559 lights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:32,159 I remember the most, where the eyes were glowing red. I see an 6 00:00:32,359 --> 00:00:37,719 orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for 7 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:46,320 me. And he begins to tell them that he saw Ufo. They're basically 8 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:52,560 like, what are you talking about. That's seven foot up on a tree, 9 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,159 peeking around it, and that's where I saw the top of the muzzle, 10 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,280 nose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye contact with this 11 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:07,480 thing, it don't like death. Welcome back to Tenfoil Tells. I'm your 12 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,400 host Brandon right nine's episode, We're going to be joined by Jaren and Matthew. 13 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,239 They are the authors of Christ Before Jesus. Now, what this book 14 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,799 entails is they've done a lot of research into the topic of Jesus and the 15 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:25,120 New Testament. What they've been able to discover could be eye opening for some, 16 00:01:25,519 --> 00:01:27,359 could be offensive, But as I've always said, try and keep an 17 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,920 open mind, but before we bring them on. If you've ever had an 18 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,319 experience and you'd like to be on an episode of ten Foil Tells, you 19 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:38,000 can send an email to Tenfoil Tales Podcast at gmail dot com, or you 20 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,680 can go to the website Tenfoiltales dot com and send a message there. There's 21 00:01:41,799 --> 00:01:45,359 contact section. Just go there and you can reach me that way too. 22 00:01:45,599 --> 00:01:47,920 Either way it works for me, So just send your message and we'll get 23 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,519 your scheduled for a future episode. You'd like to continue to help the podcast 24 00:01:51,519 --> 00:01:53,719 out, please share it around. Word of mouth is the best way to 25 00:01:53,719 --> 00:01:57,000 get the podcast out there to new listeners. With every new listener there's a 26 00:01:57,079 --> 00:02:01,120 chance for a new guest that means more episodes for you guys. 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Make sure 45 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:15,879 to go to the YouTube and click the bell to subscribe. Be notified whenever 46 00:03:15,879 --> 00:03:17,560 the live streams are going on so you don't miss out. You can join 47 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:21,319 the discussions. If you have an experience you want to share, you can 48 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,120 even hop on there and share with the audience. But I think now we're 49 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,439 going to go ahead and bring Jaren and Matthew on. Been looking forward to 50 00:03:27,479 --> 00:03:30,520 talking with them. I hope you guys enjoyed the episode. And again, 51 00:03:30,879 --> 00:03:34,400 this could be a controversial topic for some, so if this is something that 52 00:03:34,479 --> 00:03:38,280 you might be offended by, I recommend that maybe you just skip this episode. 53 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:39,919 But at least if you do listen, keep an open mind. But 54 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:46,280 on that note, sit back, relax and enjoy the show. Like take 55 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,039 time to welcome my guests, I, Jared and Matthew, thanks for coming 56 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,199 on here and talking to me. Thank you very much for having us. 57 00:03:53,439 --> 00:03:57,199 Yeah, happy to be here. You guys reached out to me a while 58 00:03:57,319 --> 00:04:00,719 back about a book you were writing and kind of peaks my interest. So 59 00:04:00,719 --> 00:04:03,199 if you want to give a little background about yourselves and then we can talk 60 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:09,240 about the book that you have been writing. Absolutely so. My name is 61 00:04:09,319 --> 00:04:14,520 Jaron and I am the co author of this book along with Matthew, and 62 00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:21,920 the book is Christ Before Jesus and we are we're I want to say that 63 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:28,800 we're finished with it, but we're trying to put in as much recent data 64 00:04:28,959 --> 00:04:32,040 as possible up to date and keep it up to date and everything. So 65 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:40,560 it's officially coming out on March the sixteenth onto Amazon and you know, print 66 00:04:40,879 --> 00:04:46,560 ebook, even audiobook version. But we are still trying to iron out any 67 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,519 kind of you know, typos or anything like that and making sure all the 68 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,240 information is up to date, and even still working on some citations. So 69 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,800 definitely coming along. My background is in economics and statistics, that's what my 70 00:05:00,519 --> 00:05:05,120 degree is in. And then Matthew, he's got a couple degrees Matthew. 71 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:12,639 Yeah, So I'm Matthew. I have a bachelor's in philosophy and religious studies 72 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,800 minor and master's in public administration, which I used basically, you know, 73 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,720 end up getting a job with that type of degree, and my job ended 74 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:27,079 up doing a lot with database work, and that led into some of the 75 00:05:27,079 --> 00:05:30,319 tools we end up using in the book, so which we can talk about 76 00:05:30,399 --> 00:05:34,079 later. Yeah, it's been an interesting process writing the book. Do you 77 00:05:34,079 --> 00:05:36,600 want to talk about the gist of the book, Jared or you know? 78 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:43,360 Yeah? Yeah. So in short, we present our theory, which is 79 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:53,199 that not only do we find very compelling evidence that Jesus as presented by the 80 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:58,240 Bible, even in a historical sense, did not exist, but on top 81 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,839 of that, we have a lot of evidence that suggests that there is not 82 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:06,759 a single New Testament book that was written prior to the start of the second 83 00:06:06,759 --> 00:06:18,040 century. And we have, you know, theological and logical and textual evidences 84 00:06:18,079 --> 00:06:25,199 for this. And then finally in our book we present our case backed up 85 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:32,040 by stylometry. And this stylometric analysis is ran for the first time ever on 86 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:38,680 not only the New Testament, but on Greek text for the first few centuries 87 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:45,800 CE and even going back to at least one century into BCE. It is 88 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,360 the first of its kind, or I guess I should say the first of 89 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:56,839 its magnitude to actually include all these different texts and take a look at the 90 00:06:56,879 --> 00:07:03,839 New Testament. Now, I had a question, and you'd mentioned that you'd 91 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:09,680 like done all this research and everything into this. What made you, of 92 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,519 all things to research? What made you want to start the book? Like 93 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,800 what made you the research on Jesus? Like what led to that? Well, 94 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,639 I think it was just kind of curiosity. Matthew and I were both 95 00:07:24,079 --> 00:07:30,480 raised in Southern Baptist homes, and you know, I consider myself a Christian 96 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:39,399 for the first twenty years of my life twenty twenty one. And you know, 97 00:07:39,519 --> 00:07:43,639 I had, even though I was an atheist at a certain point. 98 00:07:44,439 --> 00:07:47,879 I had always assumed that there was a historical Jesus that the stories just kind 99 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:53,600 of got attached to and just kind of the supernatural elements got added to. 100 00:07:54,439 --> 00:07:59,759 But it at a certain point a couple of years back, Matthew and I 101 00:07:59,759 --> 00:08:03,399 were talking and we were talking about the idea of, you know, what 102 00:08:03,959 --> 00:08:09,720 happened at the very beginning of Christianity, because you know, even if Jesus 103 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:15,480 did exist or didn't exist, doesn't you know, either way, Christianity exists. 104 00:08:15,839 --> 00:08:18,279 And so what did they see, you know, what led them to 105 00:08:20,759 --> 00:08:26,319 believe what they believed and write down what they wrote. So it was just 106 00:08:26,399 --> 00:08:30,920 kind of jumping in and diving in because we were just curious. And I 107 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,600 don't know if Matthew would have a different take on that, but that's that's 108 00:08:33,639 --> 00:08:39,840 at least where I started. Yeah, I mean, if you wanted to 109 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,039 trace it back all the way to like our youth or childhood, I grew 110 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,440 up in a multi faith house and led to a lot of debates and then 111 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:52,679 at one point, I think early college, Jaron presented this case that Jesus 112 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,799 didn't exist to me and a friend and we kind of rejected it at the 113 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:01,759 time because the mainstream theory is that there was a historical Jesus, even if 114 00:09:01,879 --> 00:09:05,799 you know, the miraculous parts of his life didn't happen. And then, 115 00:09:07,159 --> 00:09:09,919 like you're saying, a few years ago, it just kind of popped back 116 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:15,120 up in our lives and we were looking into it and noticed a few odd 117 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:20,159 things, and those odd things led us to ask ourselves, is there a 118 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,919 way to approach this that's more objective because a lot of these things rely on, 119 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,600 you know, theological arguments that it's kind of it's a matter of opinion 120 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,159 sometimes or he said, she said, and that led us to get into 121 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:39,519 stylometry, and you know, kind of ball got rolling from there. Now 122 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:45,159 there's been a lot of theories out there. I've heard something before about the 123 00:09:45,159 --> 00:09:48,399 Bible, like the New Testament wasn't written until like two hundred years after the 124 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,080 supposed crucifixion of Christ. So it kind of made me wonder, like who 125 00:09:54,120 --> 00:10:01,320 were writing these stories two hundred years later? If the people that would have 126 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,279 witnessed it wouldn't have been alive. But then even there's parts of the Bible 127 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,080 I think was Abraham was like seven hundred or something years old. I never 128 00:10:09,159 --> 00:10:11,799 understood like the ages when it come to the Bible. None of that stuff 129 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:18,720 ever made sense to me. But no, I will say, before we 130 00:10:18,759 --> 00:10:22,879 get into it or whatever, I know a lot of the listeners and a 131 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:26,559 lot of things they relate to Bible stuff. And I've said it before that 132 00:10:26,919 --> 00:10:30,679 I'm not really a religious person. I don't really mean one way or the 133 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,360 other. I think there's I would hope there's something, but I don't know. 134 00:10:35,639 --> 00:10:37,480 I'm not going to say I'm a Christian. I'm not going to say 135 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,120 I'm an atheist or whatever. I'm just I'm a person. I try and 136 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:46,440 do good right, no right, I don't know I'm out out there doing 137 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,879 crimes or committing murders or whatever else. So hopefully if there is something that 138 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:52,399 I'm rewarded sometime, I don't know. Before we just dyeing, we never 139 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:58,320 know. We've definitely heard the idea that you know, without without God or 140 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,919 without Jesus, you know, where's your moral compass? You know you could 141 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,919 go out and you know, commit a whole bunch of murder and stuff like 142 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,000 that without God's laws and stuff, which, first of all, you know, 143 00:11:09,039 --> 00:11:13,960 there's obvious problems with that kind of thinking. But on top of that, 144 00:11:13,159 --> 00:11:18,039 I commit as much murder as I want, which is zero. But 145 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,960 that I do, I commit as much murder as I like, and that's 146 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,840 zero. I know there will be people if they ever find this episode, 147 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,960 not so much the normal listening base, but like I know, there's very 148 00:11:31,159 --> 00:11:35,879 religious types out there. They would try and use this as you guys were 149 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,840 working for the devil. I have a feeling. I just I know how 150 00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:43,679 certain groups are and then said that your work, your book or whatever, 151 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,759 this is the work of the devil trying to disprove Jesus, and that you're 152 00:11:46,399 --> 00:11:50,519 just going to dig their feet down in deeper just because that seems to be 153 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,559 how they operate, right right, Well, I will say that not only 154 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,600 do we not believe in Jesus, we also don't believe in Satan. So 155 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,159 yeah, I think we're good there. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, 156 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,360 you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of different responses, 157 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:13,600 you know to what we what we postulate. You know, when we say 158 00:12:13,639 --> 00:12:16,519 something like, hey, we don't think that Jesus existed, we get a 159 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,159 ton of response. If we get a ton of questions about it, and 160 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,919 the way that our book is actually laid out, it is fifty different questions 161 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,960 that get asked to us the fifty most common they get asked to us whenever 162 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,360 we talk about what we believe and talk about our particular theory, and we 163 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,320 take each one of those questions and we give a response to it. And 164 00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:39,200 that's that's how the book is laid out. And the questions are categorized, 165 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:43,200 you know, like based on historians, or based on the Gospels, or 166 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:48,279 the epistles, or the stylometry, all these different things. We let them 167 00:12:48,279 --> 00:12:50,759 out, we categorize them, and so it's a little it's pretty easy to 168 00:12:50,759 --> 00:12:54,039 read, and you know, it makes it to where you know, if 169 00:12:54,039 --> 00:12:56,840 you if you already know the answer to something, if you already know what 170 00:12:56,279 --> 00:13:01,200 some people say to say Josephus the story, and then you can skip ahead 171 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,480 of the next question, you know. So we make it, try to 172 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,960 make it easier, try to make it digestible. And I would say that 173 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:13,600 it's not an atheist book per se. It's focused on whether or not Jesus 174 00:13:13,639 --> 00:13:18,639 was a historical figure. The reason we named the book Christ before Jesus is 175 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,639 something that we found is that there were people who believed in a mythical Christ 176 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:28,759 figure before the name Jesus and these historical stories got attached to it, right, 177 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,519 Yeah, And that's probably the most eye opening thing is that, you 178 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:37,120 know, at a lot of people kind of fall prey to what we come 179 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:43,480 up with in our book what we named the synonym problem, the idea that 180 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:50,000 when Christ or Christians are talked about, then that somehow means Jesus, that 181 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:56,240 somehow means Jesus was real, when Christians just means, you know, someone 182 00:13:56,279 --> 00:14:03,519 who follows a Christ or believes in a Christ, and a Christ. Christ 183 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,679 is just a title, that's not a name. You know, there were 184 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:11,559 plenty of people who were considered a Christ. John the Baptist from the Bible, 185 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:18,879 he doesn't have too tarily many scenes before he's killed by an overdose of 186 00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:28,159 guillotine. But the point is his followers, called the Mandeans, they considered 187 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:33,360 him to be a Christ. So yeah, I mean, you have a 188 00:14:33,399 --> 00:14:35,879 lot of people, You have a lot of people who are apparently following a 189 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:41,360 Christ and calling themselves Christians, but they don't have a story of Jesus until 190 00:14:43,399 --> 00:14:48,879 much later. All, if you guys want to dive on in from the 191 00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:56,360 beginning, oh yeah, started with it, absolutely absolutely so. The mainstream 192 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:03,720 opinion of Jesus, and the mainstream opinion of the Gospels or the New Testament 193 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,159 is that, you know, most historians, they assume that Jesus probably existed. 194 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,679 You know. You might run into a historian that says, oh, 195 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,120 there is absolutely proof of Jesus, you know, that kind of thing. 196 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:20,120 But a lot of that is based on either old or faulty reasoning, possibly 197 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:26,120 even circular reasoning, lots of times using the Christians themselves as sources for it, 198 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:33,879 which doesn't really make much sense. But overall, historians and Bible scholars 199 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:41,320 generally say that the first Gospel to be written was the Gospel of Mark, 200 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,720 and they claimed that it was written roughly about seventy CE, which would have 201 00:15:46,759 --> 00:15:50,559 been right around the time of the Siege of Jerusalem, because it talks about 202 00:15:50,559 --> 00:15:56,279 the destruction of the Jewish temple there in Jerusalem, and so historians they say, 203 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,159 hey, you know, if it talks about the if it talks about 204 00:15:58,159 --> 00:16:04,039 the destruction of the timp more or less, it can't be before seventy you 205 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,120 know, because that's when it happened. Because the historians don't want to they 206 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,320 don't want to admit that there's a like a prophecy or someone's telling the future 207 00:16:12,399 --> 00:16:18,000 or something, which makes perfect sense. But of course the Bible scholars they 208 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,159 want to move, they want to move the authorship of Mark is as early 209 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:27,159 as possible, so they just kind of compromised and went with seventy. But 210 00:16:29,559 --> 00:16:36,399 yeah, they've got Mark in seventy, and then Matthew in about about about 211 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:41,120 eighty or so, Luke in eighty five, and then John anywhere from ninety 212 00:16:41,159 --> 00:16:44,320 to one to ten I think is the range that they typically give it. 213 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,799 And then they say that the Epistles of Paul or the Letters of Paul were 214 00:16:48,799 --> 00:16:56,080 written prior to the Gospels by a few decades. And one of the things 215 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:07,160 that kind of gets floated around is the idea that Jesus is just a just 216 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,200 another demi god that takes from prior gods. So you've got like Egyptian gods 217 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:17,440 like Horus and stuff like that, and the people try to find parallels like, 218 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:22,559 oh, he was born on December twenty fifth, born of a virgin, 219 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:27,160 had followers resurrected all all kinds of stuff, And ultimately we looked at 220 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,440 a lot of that and we were like, wow, there's a lot of 221 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,880 this that just doesn't have any evidence for it. You know, like December 222 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,880 twenty fifth wasn't even a birthday given for Jesus in the Bible. So, 223 00:17:40,279 --> 00:17:45,480 you know, while we didn't think that Jesus existed, we were finding that 224 00:17:45,519 --> 00:17:48,839 a lot of the arguments for why he didn't exist were kind of bad. 225 00:17:49,599 --> 00:17:52,680 So we needed to kind of look into it, you know, a lot 226 00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:59,880 further, and ultimately that's when we ran into a guy named Marcion. And 227 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,519 I'll let Matthew kind of talk to you a little bit more about Marcion there. 228 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,240 Yeah, so Marcion is the name you won't really hear a lot, 229 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:15,559 but he was a second century Christian theologian and author writing in around the one 230 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:21,200 thirties or one forties, and he comes from modern day Turkey in the north 231 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:27,400 part which was at the time called Bethenia and Pontus. And according to all 232 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:34,759 of the church historians at the time and after in one four he was kicked 233 00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:40,400 out of the church in Rome after he went there for basically being a heretic. 234 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:45,279 They labeled him a heretic. But when he left he published ten letters 235 00:18:45,279 --> 00:18:51,519 from Paul and his own gospel. And that doesn't sound too significant, probably 236 00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:55,839 because you know, like Jaron just said, this is decades after the other 237 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:00,920 gospels supposedly came out. But there was a thing that stuck out that some 238 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:07,319 of the later historians claimed that Marcion said his was actually first, and that 239 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,799 you know, he could prove it, but then the church leaders would say, 240 00:19:10,839 --> 00:19:12,000 oh, no, we can prove that ours actually came first. And 241 00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:17,240 it was kind of a he said, she said thing. So we're like, 242 00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:19,240 well, it's interesting, but I don't know if there's really anything to 243 00:19:19,319 --> 00:19:23,680 that. And we started looking into it a little bit more and we came 244 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:30,319 across some interesting little incidents in Luke, which is the gospel he supposedly stole, 245 00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:33,880 that would seem to indicate, based on the order of the events, 246 00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:37,200 that Marcion might have actually been the first. And if that's the case, 247 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,599 you know, Jesus dying around the year thirty, the first Gospel not coming 248 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:47,559 out until around one forty four, that range, you know, you've got 249 00:19:47,599 --> 00:19:52,319 over one hundred years before anyone writes a story of Jesus, and then the 250 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,119 Letter of Paul's coming around that time. That's that's really significant too, because 251 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,640 that's supposed to be, you know, written within ten or so years after 252 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,599 Jesus has died, it's really significant that this would all be there. And 253 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,039 you know, we thought, well, if the Gospels had been around since 254 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:11,599 you know, the year seventy to eighty or that range, we should see 255 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,720 quotations from people in between the years, like you know, eighty and one 256 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,200 forty four. But it turns out there aren't any, and the ones that 257 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:23,680 people claim there are those those texts actually date to one fifties or later. 258 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,599 So we just asked ourselves, like, you know, is there any more 259 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,559 objective way we can look at this other than going off of these two groups 260 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:40,839 accusing each other of stealing each other's books. And yeah, that's when we 261 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:47,799 ended up with stylometry and specifically a program called Stylo. Yeah, more or 262 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,680 less, a lot of a lot of our findings started to push a lot 263 00:20:52,720 --> 00:21:00,480 of these texts into the second century. And that caused a problem because if 264 00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:04,039 Jesus dies in thirty roughly thirty, and then all of a sudden, you 265 00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:10,599 don't have anything else into the second century, there's just a gap. And 266 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:17,000 so a lot of the early church leaders and the church fathers, they just 267 00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:22,480 made people up. It just made people up. There's numerous people that are 268 00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:30,759 just that are talked about that straight up didn't exist. And not only are 269 00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:36,119 they making them up, they're writing letters as these people. They're claiming that 270 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,839 these people, you know, taught this person or learned from this person, 271 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,119 or went to this place or started a church here, all kinds of stuff. 272 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,920 It's also it's wild, not dinner rebel. There's also like a big 273 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,720 time gap in the supposed life of Jesus anyways, wasn't there, Like it 274 00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:56,119 started off when he was young and then all of a sudden that's when he's 275 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,960 out doing his miracles and everything else, Like what happened in between that was 276 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:08,359 never There are some gospels that are I mean, they're a trip because there's 277 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,839 a lot of gospels that didn't make it into the New Testament. So when 278 00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:17,799 they decided what's called the canon for the New Testament, they decided on four. 279 00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:22,799 The reason for it can be kind of ambiguous, but the best that 280 00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:26,359 we've got is that at a certain point they said, we need one for 281 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,519 the north, the south, the east, and the west. I have 282 00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:33,079 no idea what they I have no idea what the hell that means. But 283 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,440 that being said, they chose four gospels, but there are over forty that 284 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:42,200 were written. I mean, most of them are wild and crazy. They 285 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:48,000 have all kinds of stuff. But to answer your question, though, one 286 00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:52,160 of them, there's a couple that are that are considered the Infancy Gospels, 287 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:56,519 and they talk about how Jesus was when he was a kid and when he 288 00:22:56,599 --> 00:23:02,039 was like a teenager and stuff like that, and they are they're a trip. 289 00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:04,400 I mean, you've you've got Jesus. He's and one of them he's 290 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,559 just making birds out of clay and just like throwing them up in the air, 291 00:23:07,599 --> 00:23:11,400 and he just turned he's just doing it because he's bored. And then 292 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,119 another one he's he's like playing in the mud, and another kid comes around 293 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,240 and is just like starts like stomping all around, you know, in the 294 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,559 puddles and stuff like that. So Jesus as a kid, he gets pissed 295 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,920 and he makes the kids straight up fucking explode, like he just murders this 296 00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:33,559 kid. It just it's ridiculous. It doesn't fit the narrative of the yeah 297 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,279 righteousness exactly exactly. You mean, this guy is gonna say blessed O the 298 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:41,079 peacemakers and he just like off the kid like that doesn't make any sense. 299 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:52,519 And so there's no it's a no brainer to keep those out of a to 300 00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:55,640 keep those out of the cannon, to not present those as the best of 301 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,920 the best. But ultimately you are right. You know, there's this huge 302 00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:03,240 app there in the canonical gospels as we have him. The last time that 303 00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:08,319 we hear from him as a kid is when he's twelve and he's taken to 304 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,720 the temple and then he runs off, he gets lost, and his parents 305 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,079 look for him. Well, you know, he's he's talking to the high 306 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,599 priest and just amazing them, you know, according to the story. But 307 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,319 then his parents show up and they're like, you know, what the hell 308 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:22,960 have you been doing? Like you got us worried sick. And he's like, 309 00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:26,799 well, don't worry about him, you know, doing what God wants 310 00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:29,759 me to. And they're like, okay, whatever, and just take him 311 00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:33,200 home, and like that's it. Yeah, there's an important reason that there 312 00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:38,240 is no childhood for Jesus, and that's because that first gospel we talked about 313 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,400 from Marcion, he descends from the sky as an adult. Yeah, so 314 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,079 if that's the first one, all this other stuff gets added later to make 315 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,799 him more historical. But like we were saying, there was a whole Christian 316 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,920 movement and they believed in this celestial being and that's where he came from. 317 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,279 He came from the sky in this first gospel, and there was no childhood. 318 00:25:00,279 --> 00:25:07,200 He never was a human. So yeah, the earliest versions of the 319 00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:12,559 Jesus story just had the guy coming down as an adult man out of heaven, 320 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,559 probably naked, but that's beside the point. So the whole story of 321 00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:23,720 his birth and everything that was all wrote way later. Yes, yes, 322 00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:29,720 And that's actually one of the little pieces of evidence were able to use to 323 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:36,839 prove that Marcion's Gospel was first. In our style of metric analysis, one 324 00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:44,039 thing that we noticed was that the authorship for those birth narratives match acts the 325 00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:48,319 Acts of the Apostles, which is the technically the second part of the Gospel 326 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:53,640 of Luke in the canonical Bible, right, but it didn't match the rest 327 00:25:53,880 --> 00:26:00,119 of the style of the main body of the text where Marcion's Gospel started off, 328 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:06,680 which means somebody took Marcion's Gospel and tried to make it theirs, but 329 00:26:06,759 --> 00:26:11,000 couldn't cover up their tracks in terms of style and other things. They actually 330 00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:15,240 get a story completely out of order. Which is if Jared you want to 331 00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:17,400 talk about that one. That one, Oh yeah, that was what really 332 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,920 tipped us off that Marcillon's gospel had to have come before at least Luke. 333 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,480 Oh yeah. So in in Marcion's Gospel, which is called Evangeline and like 334 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:33,119 like we said, it was published in one four CE, Jesus comes down 335 00:26:33,319 --> 00:26:37,240 as an adult into a town called Copernium, which is in the region of 336 00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:41,799 Galilee there in Judea. So he comes down to Capernium and he, you 337 00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:44,119 know, does some miracles and whatnot, you know, wows a whole bunch 338 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,720 of people, you know, just absolutely blowing their minds. And eventually some 339 00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:55,279 people are around him, they're they're all amazed, and and he goes, 340 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:00,079 well, this is Jesus. He says, uh, I suppose that next 341 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,720 you're going to ask me to do signs like I did back in Copernium. 342 00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:11,640 And you know, he goes on to kind of dismiss these people, and 343 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,160 that's fine. You know, he came down to Copernium, did some signs 344 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:19,759 and then started talking about started talking about how he had done signs before. 345 00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:27,599 But in the Gospel of Luke they take that same verse. They take the 346 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:33,039 verse that says, oh, do signs like you've done for us back in 347 00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:37,799 Copernium. But the problem is, in the Gospel of Luke, he hasn't 348 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,279 been to Copernium yet. They took that part out. They took the part 349 00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:47,680 out where he came down as as an adult into Copernium, and they slapped 350 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,000 on a birth story, and in doing so, they removed the part about 351 00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:56,480 him doing signs of Capernaum. So all of a sudden, that line is 352 00:27:56,559 --> 00:28:02,920 completely out of order. It doesn't make any sense. And Evangeline from Marcion 353 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,400 is the only other gospel that has it other than Luke. So it's I 354 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,400 mean, it's the smoking gun, like he's just he just took it, 355 00:28:12,519 --> 00:28:15,279 like it's there in our English version of the Bible. He took it from 356 00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:18,680 Marcion. Where did you guys go from that point? Like, once you 357 00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:23,240 come across that and you just kept diving into it further. Yeah, So 358 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,799 stelemetry, I know that we've mentioned it a couple of times. Basically, 359 00:28:27,799 --> 00:28:32,440 I mean I have Matthew correct me because he does a lot more of the 360 00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:37,000 work on it, But at least my words, what it is is it's 361 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:45,839 a peer reviewed mathematical mathematical analysis, it's literary analysis. What it does is 362 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:52,519 it tries to using math and peer reviewed formulas, it tries to assign authorship, 363 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,279 or it tries to attribute authorship. So, in other words, if 364 00:28:56,359 --> 00:29:00,319 I was to write something and you were to write something, and we run 365 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:07,160 both of the texts, provided that they're the same language, we run both 366 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:12,039 of these through styleometric analysis, it would be able to determine whether or not 367 00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:18,039 it was all from the same author, or if it was two separate authors. 368 00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:21,839 And then if another text gets introduced that could be yours, could be 369 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,079 mine, it would be able to determine if it was yours or mine. 370 00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:29,519 It would go to either your text or it would be right next to my 371 00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:33,680 text. It just kind of spits out these results and it puts them all 372 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,799 on the same branch if they're on the or if they're from the same author. 373 00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:44,279 So what we were able to do is dive into Luke and sure enough, 374 00:29:44,839 --> 00:29:48,079 the birth story at the very beginning, and you know, the story 375 00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:51,000 about him being really little and stuff like that in the temple and whatnot, 376 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,119 that was all one author, along with the along with the ascension story at 377 00:29:56,119 --> 00:30:00,559 the end, that was all one author. But then every everything in the 378 00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:07,279 Middle came up as a different author, and that's because Marcion's Gospel has that 379 00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:12,960 same content. So you have the Christians saying, oh, Marchion stole from 380 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,839 Luke, and the followers of Marcion said, no, no, no, 381 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:22,640 Luke took from Marcion. So they're arguing back and forth. But if Marcion 382 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,359 had taken from Luke, then we when we ran Luke, it should have 383 00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:30,519 all came up as the same author. But it didn't. They took from 384 00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:34,759 they took from Marcion. And in our book we have the graphs and this 385 00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:40,720 is all free, open source software that anybody can run. We did all 386 00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:42,920 of this in the original Greek. You know, all the New Testament was 387 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:49,119 written in Greek. There are definitely manuscript problems in terms of we don't have 388 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:56,720 any originals. The earliest copy of anything we have dates to around the year 389 00:30:56,759 --> 00:31:02,400 two hundred. But you know, to the best of what we have, 390 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,680 we ran. Not only did we find this, we found that, you 391 00:31:06,759 --> 00:31:11,519 know, we said Mark was supposedly written in seventy and there's this prediction that 392 00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:14,759 you know, this temple's going to get destroyed, and how that's how they 393 00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:17,680 date it, well, we ran it, and that chapter was not in 394 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,559 the original version of Mark, right Mark thirteen. Mark thirteen comes up completely 395 00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:27,720 separate from the rest of Mark, which means that it was it was not 396 00:31:27,759 --> 00:31:32,200 there originally, so which didn't make any sense because you know, if that 397 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,720 was all one story written around the year seventy, why would some other author 398 00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:38,440 have written that part. And so what we were able to piece together is 399 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,599 that the original version of the Gospel of Mark was written around the year one 400 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:47,039 twenty or so, maybe one thirty. And then there was another destruction of 401 00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:52,759 Jerusalem in the year one thirty five, called the Barcopola Revolt, and that's 402 00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:57,680 what all this is about. That is what spurred Christianity onto what it became 403 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,839 today. That's why every version of what's called the Synoptic Gospels, Mark, 404 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,880 Matthew, and Luke, you find a copy of this, they all copied 405 00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:14,359 each other more or less. And Marcion moved to Rome in one thirty six 406 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,119 that time, range bringing with him that story, that prediction, and they're 407 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,759 just using that as an analogy for the destruction of Judea. The temple represents 408 00:32:23,839 --> 00:32:29,400 Judea in that story, and Mark thirteen, the prediction of that was added 409 00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:34,440 after the year one thirty five, meaning all of our canonical gospels and all 410 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,480 the gospels that anyone has found, you know, Thomas, Peter, all 411 00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:44,240 these other gospels were after the year one thirty five, which kind of just 412 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,079 blowed the you know, traditional dating out of the water. And then we 413 00:32:46,119 --> 00:32:51,799 started looking into Paul and all these other things, and it just kept everything's 414 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,839 kept showing up in the second century. Yeah. One of the big points 415 00:32:57,839 --> 00:33:04,759 there that how we know that Mark thirteen or where it starts talking about the 416 00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:07,359 destruction of the Temple and stuff like that in the gospels. The way that 417 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,720 we know that that's related to one thirty six the bar Kopa revolt as opposed 418 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:16,119 to the destruction of Jerusalem there in seventy is that it has this line and 419 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:22,920 it's kind of it's kind of weird, but it says, it says, 420 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:28,640 when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it shouldn't, let the reader 421 00:33:28,759 --> 00:33:34,359 understand. And it's a that's a really weird line. It specifically says, 422 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,000 let the reader understand. So it's it's basically telling the reader, think about 423 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:45,319 what I'm saying here and the abomination, the abomination of desolation was a statue 424 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:52,559 specifically in the Book of Daniel, and so in that particular story, it's 425 00:33:52,599 --> 00:33:57,839 this more or less like an idol, so to speak. But in one 426 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,160 thirty six and the bar Kopa revolt, when Hadrian took over the area, 427 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,400 when he he when he finished off bar Copa and all the rebels, he 428 00:34:07,639 --> 00:34:15,280 went to the temple mount and he installed a statue of himself where the Jewish 429 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:20,079 temple used to be. And so that's them right there saying, hey, 430 00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:22,320 look, that's the abomination of desolation. That's the new one. That's the 431 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,239 new abomination of desolation. And they're talking about it there in that in that 432 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:32,199 little that little line, it's it's it's all like like Matthew said, it's 433 00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:37,119 spurred on by bar Kopa. It has nothing the Gospels, have nothing to 434 00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:43,239 do with seventy. It's everything to do with one thirty six. When you 435 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,199 guys were able to figure all this out, I know there's gonna be people 436 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:52,079 listening, even ones that will read your book or whatever. In like Layman's 437 00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:57,920 terms, you mentioned, like what you used to everything. How does it 438 00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:01,880 determine how it was written like wrote to different writers? How is it like 439 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,480 an algorithm or like how is it function? Because I know people are going 440 00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:07,320 to like, well, how can they can't prove that? You know what 441 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:13,000 I mean? Yeah yeah so oh yeah yeah yeah, we'll have Matthew talked 442 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,800 to that. Yeah yeah. So, like Jerry was saying, we used 443 00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:21,719 form of stylometry and the program is called stylo, which is written in the 444 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,960 programming language are. It's all available here, reviewed, free, open source. 445 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,599 Anyone can download it. And what it does is there are a number 446 00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:35,119 of formulas you can use. We use a formula called Eaters delta, which 447 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,400 is a distance formula, and you put all of your texts you want to 448 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:45,280 look at into a collection and then the computer will analyze the frequency of the 449 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:51,199 words in that collection. So you know, you think about the frequency of 450 00:35:51,199 --> 00:35:53,920 the words we use each day. It's not words that you would see in 451 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,960 like, you know, theological things. It's not talking about you know, 452 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:05,159 crucifixion or temple or things like that. We use words like it, I, 453 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,159 the A, and and same goes for Greek. You know, they've 454 00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:13,360 got their own version of these function words. And it turns out that these 455 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:20,960 function words are basically a linguistic fingerprint where everybody who talks and everybody who writes 456 00:36:21,639 --> 00:36:27,880 and this, this software, this type of analysis has actually been able to 457 00:36:28,039 --> 00:36:32,079 prove modern day authorship of something as small as a tweet. So the example 458 00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:37,760 we use in the book, we use two examples. One is two different 459 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:44,280 researchers actually were able to determine when former President Trump wrote a tweet or if 460 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,519 he had one of his interns do it, based on styleometric analysis. So 461 00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:53,320 they would just look at the tweets and be able to tell based off of 462 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,000 you know, running it through these kinds of formulas and tell you know who 463 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,800 wrote it. Same goes with JK. Rowling. So she has a pen 464 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:07,199 name Robert Gailbraith, and for a long time people didn't know who that was. 465 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:13,639 And somebody ran a program very similar to the one we ran and was 466 00:37:13,679 --> 00:37:19,119 able to correctly identify that she was the author behind Robert Gailbraith, and eventually 467 00:37:19,159 --> 00:37:22,239 it forced the publisher to admit, yes, she was, you know who 468 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:28,519 wrote that book. And so we when we did this, we created a 469 00:37:28,599 --> 00:37:31,800 test corpus, which is like a test body of texts, and we got 470 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:37,400 it up to ninety six percent accuracy in Greek for that time. Range Jaron 471 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:43,159 was talking about you know, it's about four hundred year range. And the 472 00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:45,599 way we tested it, you know, we have letters and all kinds of 473 00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:52,079 documents from people all over the Roman Empire that spoke Greek. You to collect 474 00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:54,440 things that you know were written by the same person, and when it correctly 475 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,719 attributes them, it'll put them all in this group and say this is all 476 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,199 one author. Then you know it's working because a lot of these people, 477 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:07,039 like say Clement of Alexandria or Origin, these Christians writing in like an around 478 00:38:07,079 --> 00:38:13,119 the year two hundred or so, we were able to use them for an 479 00:38:13,119 --> 00:38:15,760 example out of many as part of our tests, and we saw that, 480 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:21,440 okay, it's the way we're doing this is getting it ninety six plus percent 481 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,559 of the time right. And then we went back in and we tested it 482 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:29,440 on the New Testament. And with what we're using, we're actually able to 483 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,440 look at it at a chapter by chapter level. And that's how we were 484 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:37,519 able to look at that text with Luke and Marcion and see that chapters one 485 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:44,199 through three of Luke were not in the original version, and part of chapter 486 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,559 four and part of chapter twenty four, the final chapter, we're not in 487 00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:54,239 the original version of the Jesus story. So it's it's something that you know, 488 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,039 we didn't come up with ourselves, and that was a concern of ours, 489 00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:00,519 is we didn't want to have some black box formula if we did record 490 00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:06,679 or did you know, do this all ourselves and program it ourselves. So 491 00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:10,280 we really, honestly, we're just at a lucky time in this period of 492 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:15,800 history where this software came out in if you're twenty fifteen or twenty seventeen. 493 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,199 A bunch of Greek texts just became available online in the past five or ten 494 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,679 years too, and we're just now getting to where we can reconstruct Marcian's Gospel, 495 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:32,559 because go figure what became the Catholic Church destroyed all the copies of Marcian's 496 00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:38,159 Gospel, along with all kinds of other you know what would be invaluable texts 497 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:43,880 if we can look at them. There's a bunch that the Catholic Church tends 498 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,920 to keep from people. I felt like, oh yeah, oh yeah, 499 00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:51,960 and hey, we came out with this book thinking, you know, it's 500 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:53,599 possible that you all of a sudden, the Catholic Church might hit us with 501 00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:58,440 some giant hurdle. You know, they may come up, come up and 502 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,760 say hey, look, you know, we got this thing down in the 503 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:07,599 Vatic somewhere in some some some library that just completely destroys all your work. 504 00:40:07,639 --> 00:40:09,199 And yeah, hey, look hey, if we're wrong, we're wrong. 505 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,719 You know. That's why in our book we we tell people exactly what software 506 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,199 we're using, how to get it, how to run it, you know, 507 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,960 and we say, hey, look, go prove us wrong. You 508 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,760 know, if we're wrong, we're wrong, and we'll admit it. But 509 00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:28,039 you know you can probably run it and exactly see or see exactly how how 510 00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:31,800 how you guys came up. Yeah, man, it's the idea. That's 511 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,400 the idea. I've got some questions, but I don't want to keep like 512 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,880 derailing. No worries, no worries. Yeah. Well, as Matthew stated, 513 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,440 there is what's called a reconstruction of Marcion that we were able to run. 514 00:40:47,079 --> 00:40:52,519 Uh, and it's really really cool. So, as as he stated, 515 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:58,280 what eventually became the Catholic Church. The Christians deemed Marcion as a heretic, 516 00:40:58,599 --> 00:41:01,280 and all of his followers to Marcia Knights, they were considered heretics too, 517 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,519 so they wanted nothing to do with them. They destroyed a lot of 518 00:41:06,599 --> 00:41:12,559 those gospels and everything like that. But we're able to reconstruct it because they 519 00:41:12,599 --> 00:41:15,880 talked so much shit. If it wasn't for them talking shit, we wouldn't 520 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:22,559 have the ability to reconstruct it. So early church fathers actually at certain points 521 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:30,039 literally went line by line and talked crap about all these different all these different 522 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:35,239 quotes, all these different verses from Marcion and said, oh, well, 523 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,880 he says this, and we think it's wrong because of this, and he 524 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,960 says this, and he says this, and we have so many quotes that 525 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:45,159 were able to actually take that and reconstruct his gospel. We didn't do it. 526 00:41:45,559 --> 00:41:52,119 Scholars did it. Our favorite and specific is a text from Jason Badun, 527 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:59,679 who's a scholar who was able to put together Marcion's gospel. He was 528 00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:02,800 able to piece it back together. And I mean, this is all like 529 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,480 Matthew said, it's stuff that is, it's within the last ten eleven years. 530 00:42:07,519 --> 00:42:10,320 I think Jason be Dunes correct me if I'm wrong, Mathew, but 531 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,039 I think his his his reconstruction came out in twenty thirteen, I believe. 532 00:42:15,519 --> 00:42:20,599 Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. So that's the one thing that 533 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,280 is really something to remember here, you know, and for you, for 534 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:29,239 anyone listening to this, it's the idea that you know, if you're thinking, 535 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,079 wait a minute, you know, all these scholars and stuff like that, 536 00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:35,519 I've been saying for years that Jesus did this and Paul did this, 537 00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:38,360 and we have historical blah blah blah blah blah. No we don't. That 538 00:42:38,519 --> 00:42:43,519 was the old idea. Those are the old ideas based on old information. 539 00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:47,639 What we're talking about here, these reconstructions of Marcion, and in fact, 540 00:42:49,079 --> 00:42:52,039 the reconstruction of Marcion that we just talked about in twenty thirteen, that was 541 00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:55,880 the English one. We didn't actually have the Greek and specific until like a 542 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:04,079 few years ago at most. So ultimately, the information that we are able 543 00:43:04,159 --> 00:43:08,360 to that we're able to use here and run through this analysis and present in 544 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:14,960 our book, like Matthew said, it is really recent. And so this 545 00:43:15,039 --> 00:43:20,760 is this we're on the forefront of what will more or less be a wave 546 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,639 of methicism that comes in here. And not to to our own horn here, 547 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:29,119 but ultimately that's what we're seeing. You know, you look at scholars 548 00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:35,159 today and they are absolutely starting to say there's some there's some reasons to doubt 549 00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:40,079 this Jesus character there really is right, and mythicism being the belief that Jesus 550 00:43:40,199 --> 00:43:45,239 was a mythical figure, and that's something you know, it's it's not acceptable 551 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:51,920 in a lot of circles to even question. You take a figure like Zeus 552 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,199 or Hercules, and it's a legitimate question to ask, did this start out 553 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:02,719 as a mythical like story like full or is there some historical truth behind it? 554 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:07,400 Was Hercules or Zeus or Jesus? Were they myths first that then became 555 00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:15,880 historicized or were they actual historical people who became mythicized or you know, turned 556 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:21,039 into gods. And so mythicist is the term for people who think that Jesus 557 00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:27,400 started out as a myth or folklore or a deity as opposed to starting out 558 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,400 as a historical figure who then got called Christ or God. Yeah, and 559 00:44:32,639 --> 00:44:37,360 consider what Matthew was talking about with the Gospel of Luke and what we already 560 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,679 said there where they took from Marcion which said he came down from heaven as 561 00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:45,719 an adult and they put a birth story. That's because they're trying to they're 562 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,840 more or less trying to historicize them. Matthew comes first as a response to 563 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,519 Evangeline, and it has kind of a burst. It has a burst story, 564 00:44:52,519 --> 00:44:57,480 but it's not as ornate, it's not as detailed as Luke's, which 565 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,400 comes later. But that's the idea. But surely you can see how they're 566 00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:07,400 coming up with the more historical Jesus Mark Evangeline, no burst story. All 567 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,519 of a sudden, Matthew, they got a burst story, and they've got 568 00:45:10,559 --> 00:45:17,760 a bit of a fairly primitive like genealogy. Luke goes a little bit more 569 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,559 into the genealogy and everything like that. It tries to not only have a 570 00:45:22,559 --> 00:45:25,559 burst story, but it tries to place it in a certain time. It's 571 00:45:25,639 --> 00:45:29,400 like, oh, hey, while Corinius was here and Herod was here, 572 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,119 and you look at the dates that it gives in the names that it gives, 573 00:45:32,119 --> 00:45:36,079 and they don't even line up. You know, it's clearly just somebody 574 00:45:36,119 --> 00:45:40,199 guessing it's not actually historically reliable. But at the same time they're attempting to 575 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:46,679 make him fit into history somewhere. That's the idea. You think that the 576 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:51,960 reasoning behind all of this is, like, what's the purpose? I guess 577 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,840 I don't want to I was gonna ask this later, but right, well, 578 00:45:54,880 --> 00:46:00,320 what is the purpose of Jesus, Like, what was the whole game 579 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,360 if they wrote stories about a character that didn't exist, Like, what was 580 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,320 their end game if they already had the Old Testament? What was the point 581 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,199 of why they wanted to write this? Doing about a want of reference like 582 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:15,880 comic books, but like the superhero Yeah. Well, I will say that 583 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:22,639 there are some mythicists out there who do have some wilder takes, some that 584 00:46:23,079 --> 00:46:30,480 don't really have really any evidence who's supported or anything like that. The the 585 00:46:30,599 --> 00:46:34,960 more recent one that we've kind of seen floating around is the idea that the 586 00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:40,480 Romans started it, and that the Roman government was trying to come up with 587 00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:49,920 a more pacifist religion and was trying to put down the the Jews and specific 588 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:57,239 who were being rebellious in these wars, these these these revolts, and they 589 00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,559 were saying, hey, you know, look at Jesus. You know, 590 00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:02,360 he said pay your taxes, you know. Uh, And you know, 591 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:07,000 ultimately the Romans we put them on the cross and everything because we're in charge, 592 00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:12,119 ha ha ha, you know, and so they there is some there 593 00:47:12,159 --> 00:47:19,480 are some ideas, there are some ideas that are floating around regarding more or 594 00:47:19,559 --> 00:47:22,920 less like a like a conspiracy from the Roman government. There's just no evidence 595 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:28,239 for that. And ultimately a lot of these books come after the Barcopa Revolt, 596 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,599 and the Barcopa Revolt would have been the last time that that there was 597 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:38,880 really anything there between the Jews and the Romans. I mean, after the 598 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:46,719 bar Cocoa Revolt they renamed Judea Roman Palestina because they just pretty much just wiped 599 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:53,159 them all out and everything, and the Jews were spread out there in the 600 00:47:53,199 --> 00:48:00,599 outlying areas and provinces. So there's so there's not really the not really like 601 00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:04,599 a there's not really a lot of evidence to suggest that it was like a 602 00:48:04,639 --> 00:48:09,440 conspiracy per se, not really at all by the time it was written. 603 00:48:09,679 --> 00:48:17,119 But at the same time, there are plenty of evidences for mystery cults, 604 00:48:17,679 --> 00:48:27,480 these little these little beliefs or these little religions that just kind of behaved in 605 00:48:27,599 --> 00:48:37,039 really strange ways. One of the well the the earliest attestation two Christians is 606 00:48:37,119 --> 00:48:43,519 Pliny the Younger, and he is a at the time in one eleven CE, 607 00:48:43,639 --> 00:48:47,480 he was the governor of As Matthew pointed out earlier, that that area 608 00:48:47,639 --> 00:48:54,599 that Marcion comes from, which was Bathennian Pontus, and he comes in contact 609 00:48:54,639 --> 00:48:58,400 with these Christians and he's writing a letter to the Emperor, Emperor Trajan, 610 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,599 and he's like, I don't know who the all these people are. I 611 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,119 don't know what they believe. I have no idea, So I started torturing 612 00:49:05,159 --> 00:49:07,079 them to try to figure out what they believed. So he starts torturing them, 613 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,719 and he's saying all this stuff about what they do. He says they 614 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,440 share everything they including money and food, and they help each other out. 615 00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:22,360 They get together, and they meet together and sing songs or hymns or whatever, 616 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,119 and they believe in Christ. But he never says Jesus. Never once 617 00:49:25,159 --> 00:49:30,280 does he say Jesus. He doesn't mention any texts that they have. When 618 00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:32,760 you know, according to Christian tradition, all of the books should have been 619 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:37,639 available by this point. But one to eleven nothing nothing, no text, 620 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:44,239 no name Jesus, No he was crucified by Pilot, nothing nothing. They're 621 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,159 Christians, they believe in a Christ, but they don't have a Jesus story 622 00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:53,800 yet. But ultimately, the way he describes them is incredibly similar to mystery 623 00:49:53,840 --> 00:50:00,880 cults that we have from the first century or even dating before there's a group 624 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:06,800 down near Alexandria called the Therapeutie, and the Therapeutie are written about in Philo. 625 00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:10,440 Now Philo was a he was a historian who was in the first half 626 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,800 of the first century. And he doesn't say, you know jack shit about 627 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,880 Jesus, but yet he talks about this group called the Therapeutai, which is 628 00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:23,960 like this offshoot of Judaism, that they all lived in this commune by a 629 00:50:24,039 --> 00:50:30,239 lake down in Alexandria, and they got together once a week, shared food, 630 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:37,039 sang hymns, read from the scriptures like the Old Testament, and they 631 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:42,559 after that they dispersed and went back to their communes and lived peacefully. And 632 00:50:42,639 --> 00:50:49,320 it was extremely similar. It's so so so close to Christianity that later church 633 00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:53,840 church leaders, church fathers in the second century tried to claim the Therapeutae as 634 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:58,519 the earliest Christian monks, and they weren't, but they tried to claim them 635 00:50:58,519 --> 00:51:04,519 that as that because they they saw the similarities. You know, it's it's 636 00:51:04,519 --> 00:51:08,360 pointed out a lot. Yeah, And we think, or at least we 637 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:13,039 speculate in the book towards the end when we ask ourselves that question, like 638 00:51:13,079 --> 00:51:17,320 how did it go from this, you know, just a belief in this 639 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:22,880 spiritual savior based on you know, whatever it might have been, based on 640 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:27,519 their personal experiences or what traditions they had at the time, into a oh, 641 00:51:27,599 --> 00:51:31,000 there was a historical guy, you know X number of years ago, 642 00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:35,800 you know, one hundred years ago. And what we think happened is when 643 00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,440 the first version of the Gospel of Mark came out, which was around one 644 00:51:38,599 --> 00:51:45,000 twenty it we were trying to reconstruct it right now, that's our next project, 645 00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:50,960 and it's so trimmed down from what you see in the modern version of 646 00:51:51,039 --> 00:51:57,039 Mark that we have available to us. It's we think what happened is somebody 647 00:51:57,079 --> 00:52:00,280 is just writing some kind of story or play. The language they use is 648 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:07,719 very, I guess, unsophisticated. Every sentence starts with and pretty much every 649 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:13,199 sentence I mean, yeah, just just every single yeah. And it looks 650 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,719 like what happened is once Marcion brought his Gospel, which was he had this 651 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:22,960 copy, this proto Mark. And it's important to note that we're saying Marcion 652 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,719 because that's how you say it in English, but in the languages they would 653 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,039 speak at the time, it would have been marking on and which means little 654 00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:36,360 mark, little Mark and Mark is you know, the shortest gospel, and 655 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,760 he brings it to Rome, and then we think he probably collaborated with another 656 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:47,199 group there to create his gospel Evangeline, and that what happened is after some 657 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,559 people saw evangelin you know, there's this figure walking around in this story, 658 00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:54,079 and yeah, he descended from the sky, but it just it made sense 659 00:52:54,119 --> 00:52:59,159 to people that he was historical, and this idea of a historical figure doing 660 00:52:59,159 --> 00:53:01,639 this stuff caught on, and when you get to the Gospel of Matthew, 661 00:53:02,599 --> 00:53:08,360 it just is historical for them. They interpret everything as literal and historical. 662 00:53:08,639 --> 00:53:15,360 And my favorite example in the Gospel of Matthew of that author taking things literally 663 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:21,039 is he's reading, or he's citing, basically a poem from the Old Testament 664 00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:27,920 in Hebrew and it says they will ride a donkey and a foal or something 665 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:32,880 to that effect, the child of a donkey. And it's a way of 666 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,840 writing in Hebrew that you duplicate things, but it doesn't mean it's actually two. 667 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,519 They're talking about one, and it's just you know, the style that 668 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:46,079 Matthew doesn't get that though, and so he has Jesus ride into Jerusalem on 669 00:53:46,119 --> 00:53:51,159 two donkeys at the same time. And so that's just what happens is they 670 00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:57,760 took this story literally, and then people really latched onto this literal story and 671 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,960 lost that concept of the you know, this was all a spiritual movement, 672 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:07,800 and it became this historical effective movement that had to be absolutely true because it 673 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,360 was history. And then you know that was it was tied in with all 674 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,280 those theological beliefs, and you end up with you know, it becomes the 675 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:23,119 religion of the Roman Empire, and Emperor Constantine writes this edict that all Marcianite 676 00:54:23,159 --> 00:54:28,320 churches have to be destroyed in the three hundreds, and from then on you 677 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,880 don't hear anymore about the Marcianites, and you don't hear a lot about Christians, 678 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:36,719 who up until that point might have still believed that this wasn't a historical 679 00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,920 story, it was just you know, a spiritual one. Yeah, the 680 00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:46,119 Marcianites continued on with that belief that Jesus wasn't really historical, or at the 681 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:50,000 very least, you know, if he had a body, he wasn't fully 682 00:54:50,039 --> 00:54:55,320 God, you know, it was it was a very different version of Christianity 683 00:54:55,519 --> 00:55:00,400 that wasn't holding to as much as the literal interpretation of the others were. 684 00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:07,400 But I mean they lasted until all of a sudden Constantine said do away with 685 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,440 them, kill them, you get rid of them. As luck would have 686 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:16,159 it. The oldest inscription that we have, like the oldest physical inscription that 687 00:55:16,199 --> 00:55:20,920 we have of Jesus, is a stone that appears to be from an archway, 688 00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:24,280 you know, above a doorway there, and it's it's from a church 689 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,760 of Marcion, like a Marcianite church, and it mentions Jesus. And we 690 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,760 know that it's a Marcianite church because of the language that they use there, 691 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,599 and so you know, it's kind of funny that, in a sense kind 692 00:55:36,599 --> 00:55:39,039 of Marcion kind of got the last laugh there, that like the oldest inscription 693 00:55:39,119 --> 00:55:45,920 that we have is from his church, not anybody else's. There's been several 694 00:55:46,039 --> 00:55:52,920 different religions or deities or whatever you want to call them, to have the 695 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,800 same story as Jesus too, which I've always thought was interesting because I'm pretty 696 00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:04,079 sure like you had. Wasn't the Egyptian Osiris. Wasn't he supposed to be 697 00:56:04,119 --> 00:56:06,480 like the son their son of a god or whatever? And he kind of 698 00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:13,119 died on like similar things. I've been attributed to the same stories, and 699 00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:16,480 I could be one hundred percent wrong on this, But in the Old Testament, 700 00:56:16,559 --> 00:56:22,639 they was never mentioned if Satan was there in the Old Testament. Satan 701 00:56:22,679 --> 00:56:30,000 shows up. Satan's definitely in the Old Testament. It's just that so the 702 00:56:30,159 --> 00:56:37,960 concept of Satan wasn't always there for the ancient Jews. The ancient Jews, 703 00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:42,679 go ahead, Satan shows up, but not the devil, I think, 704 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,480 is the best way to put it. Yeah, yeah, because that's what 705 00:56:45,559 --> 00:56:49,760 I was kind of thinking. Is like with the New Testament. I've said 706 00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,079 this years ago, before anything like this, I always thought it was strange, 707 00:56:54,159 --> 00:57:00,280 like you don't really hear much about the devil or whatever in the Old 708 00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:05,519 Testament. But they made the New Testament. Whoever wrote it, you had 709 00:57:05,559 --> 00:57:08,119 your protagonist, which would be Jesus. Yeah, so you had to have 710 00:57:08,119 --> 00:57:10,960 an antagonist. So who they make. They made the devil, Lucifer, 711 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,159 Saytan, whatever you want to call him, Like you had your good guy 712 00:57:15,159 --> 00:57:19,480 and your bad guy. That's the new And then the New Testament's God is 713 00:57:19,519 --> 00:57:23,519 completely almost different seeming from the Old Testament God. The Old Testament God is 714 00:57:23,559 --> 00:57:29,159 this almost like a jealous god if you say that, and the new one 715 00:57:29,159 --> 00:57:31,320 like, oh, he said the son here he wants to bless us and 716 00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,920 forget the old ones like no, I'm gonna wipe you all out. Well, 717 00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:42,440 there's a massive, massive reason for that. Marcion's theology was that Jesus 718 00:57:42,519 --> 00:57:49,320 was sent by a god called God the Father, who was different from Yahweh, 719 00:57:49,639 --> 00:57:52,679 and that Jesus was sent to more or less ransom or purchase the souls 720 00:57:53,760 --> 00:58:00,719 of humanity from this other god to basically save us from Yahweh. Was that 721 00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,840 was Marcian's idea. And so that, I mean makes sense that you would 722 00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,000 notice that because it's you know, it's definitely there. It's definitely there. 723 00:58:08,039 --> 00:58:12,199 And that's why Marcian was deemed a heretic because he believed in more or less 724 00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:16,280 another God. Yeah, that was one of the things. One of the 725 00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:21,599 take commands, wasn't the worship no other gods? And despite the fact that, 726 00:58:21,639 --> 00:58:22,400 you know, if there's only one God, then why would you even 727 00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:28,119 need to say that? Yeah, I've always thought that too. Is like 728 00:58:29,199 --> 00:58:35,199 when it comes to religious why I'm not religious? So I feel like of 729 00:58:35,239 --> 00:58:37,840 all the tragedies that happened all the things that we have to go through, 730 00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:43,559 everything that people go through, seeing children have cancers or whatever. Right, 731 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,280 why do we have to have all the suffering? If they sent as supposed 732 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:52,000 Jesus back to save us all this, and that it came back at a 733 00:58:52,039 --> 00:58:58,119 time frame where no one really knew much of anything to an extent, like 734 00:58:58,199 --> 00:59:01,679 not to how we are now like there was Know, it's weird to me 735 00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:07,239 that the way life has evolved, the way we've evolved and become, the 736 00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:13,519 technology and everything else. You keep hearing the story of Jesus is coming back, 737 00:59:14,119 --> 00:59:17,440 like that's the big Christian thing. At what point is he coming back? 738 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:24,280 Like how far off does life have to go before this Jesus is coming 739 00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,519 back to save us all? When's the rapture coming? You know what I 740 00:59:27,519 --> 00:59:30,639 mean? Like right right? None of it ever made sense to me, 741 00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:35,480 Yeah, I mean, and you got to wonder, you know, of 742 00:59:35,519 --> 00:59:38,000 course, you know this is kind of putting more supernatural concepts back into it. 743 00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,559 But ultimately, if you know, if God is sending his son, 744 00:59:42,599 --> 00:59:45,239 why did he send it or why why did he send him to to to 745 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:51,039 the Middle East back in you know, back two thousand years ago, Like 746 00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,920 if you're going to send him back. Then send them to China. They 747 00:59:54,000 --> 01:00:00,719 keep a lot of written records over there. The literacy rate is pretty good 748 01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:07,519 compared to three to five percent literacy rate over there and Judea. And if 749 01:00:07,559 --> 01:00:10,840 you're going to send them to that area, just send modern day when they 750 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:15,239 have cameras, when they have video, you know, something like that. 751 01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:19,039 And on top of that, even if even if you were to say, 752 01:00:19,079 --> 01:00:21,800 okay, there's some kind of weird reason why they went to Judea, and 753 01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,159 there's some kind of weird reason why he's picked that particular time. Okay, 754 01:00:24,199 --> 01:00:28,159 great, Why did you not offer us anything that was going to be valuable? 755 01:00:28,159 --> 01:00:30,159 Why did you not tell us about how you know, the Romans at 756 01:00:30,159 --> 01:00:36,320 the time, they thought that diseases were spread by bad smells, you know, 757 01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,960 not germs, bad smells. Teach us about germs, Jesus, you 758 01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:45,840 know, to just the ingredients for penicillin, like you know what I mean, 759 01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,719 Like, teach us something that's going to be useful. Well, that's 760 01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,519 the one thing that's not useful for me because I'm allergic to it. Oh 761 01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:55,599 okay, well you know there's that. But but you know, he's just 762 01:00:55,639 --> 01:01:00,639 regurgitating a lot of these old, older, older concepts. You if you 763 01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,800 ask, if you ask, you know, just anyone off the street, 764 01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:08,199 Hey, who came first? Jesus or Socrates? They'll probably say Jesus because 765 01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:12,639 just kind of the way that, especially in America, I guess, you 766 01:01:12,639 --> 01:01:16,280 know, the way that we kind of are raised to kind of assume this 767 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:23,719 like religious just confirmation, like in the sense that you kind of you place 768 01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:28,239 the Bible, you place Bible times, you place it into history in your 769 01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:32,760 mind, and it's almost more of an anchor than anything else. And again, 770 01:01:34,239 --> 01:01:38,800 I when I've asked people adults, teenagers, you know, people in 771 01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:43,480 my age, you know, whatever, Hey, who came first? Plato 772 01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:45,199 or Jesus? They say, I think Jesus came first, right, And 773 01:01:45,239 --> 01:01:52,800 I'm like, no, Plato he was, He predated him, like by 774 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:54,719 a couple hundred years, you know what I mean. Like, it's just 775 01:01:55,679 --> 01:02:00,639 people assume that Jesus is somehow delivering these messages first, when in reality, 776 01:02:01,079 --> 01:02:05,880 very little of it is new at all. There's a lot of things that 777 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:12,480 were taken from the concept of the Teacher of Righteousness, which was a Jewish 778 01:02:12,599 --> 01:02:15,719 leader in specific that had a lot of you know, teachings and everything like 779 01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:20,519 that from BCE, you know, and you know it just kind of got 780 01:02:21,079 --> 01:02:24,079 lifted. You know, there are some things that just get lifted from from 781 01:02:24,119 --> 01:02:30,079 previous writers. But you would talk a little bit about the concept of, 782 01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:32,079 you know, when Jesus is coming back and all that kind of stuff, 783 01:02:32,239 --> 01:02:37,360 and that kind of ties in a little bit with Revelation. And we found 784 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:42,159 some pretty pretty I guess neat to us, pretty cool to us kind of 785 01:02:42,159 --> 01:02:45,519 stuff about Revelation. I'll let Matthew kind of share with you what we found. 786 01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:50,679 Yeah, yeah, So you know, the standard view on Revelation is 787 01:02:50,679 --> 01:02:53,440 that it was written by John in his I guess nineties or so, or 788 01:02:53,519 --> 01:02:57,079 it was written in the nineties, and he was an old man at the 789 01:02:57,119 --> 01:03:00,679 time after I think what he had been and oil is the story something like 790 01:03:00,719 --> 01:03:06,199 that, and then exile the patents have a terrible right, just terrible time. 791 01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:12,800 And what we found when we ran it is that the first three chapters, 792 01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:15,599 which are just kind of the intro and then some letters to churches, 793 01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,800 all in you know, modern day Turkey, which is where we've discovered the 794 01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:25,159 religion actually started. It didn't start in Judea. The rest of the text 795 01:03:25,199 --> 01:03:31,280 after that was actually originally a Jewish text written in Hebrew. And the way 796 01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:35,519 we can tell is because when you translate a text, a lot of the 797 01:03:35,559 --> 01:03:38,920 wordings and word choices carry over, so that most frequent words in that document 798 01:03:39,199 --> 01:03:45,679 they show up like the Greek version of the Hebrew Bible, and it's just 799 01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:51,360 it was. What's interesting about that is it opens up the possibility for the 800 01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,119 dates having actually been further back, you know, because people like to date 801 01:03:55,119 --> 01:03:59,280 it and say it was in the nineties because it's talking about this emperor. 802 01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,480 It was in the sixties, was talking about this emperor. I mean, 803 01:04:02,039 --> 01:04:06,559 we don't really know now, But the point being it was a stolen document. 804 01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:12,559 It was just lifted from you know, whatever Jewish author wrote it, 805 01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,280 and Christians kind of made it their own. And we see a lot of 806 01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,960 that, you know, like you had said, a lot of you know, 807 01:04:20,719 --> 01:04:24,960 stuff is not original, whether it's like the concept of a dying, 808 01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:29,559 rising God or the moral teachings that Jesus has that are found in all different 809 01:04:29,639 --> 01:04:33,519 kinds of philosophies and religion at the time. If a scle heals as Sclepias 810 01:04:33,519 --> 01:04:38,719 heals people, Orion walks on water, right, yeah, Actually, one 811 01:04:38,719 --> 01:04:42,760 of the healing stories Jesus does you know he spits in somebody's eyes And that 812 01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:46,679 sounds really weird, but that was actually a thing from another cult at the 813 01:04:46,719 --> 01:04:53,519 time, in Yeah Therapist, where like the for some reason spit had healing 814 01:04:53,559 --> 01:04:58,159 power and so that's that's what they did. And when we were working out, 815 01:04:58,199 --> 01:05:02,119 you know, like you were saying, like a devil concept is not 816 01:05:02,159 --> 01:05:06,440 really in the Old Testament the way it is in the New Testament. So 817 01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:11,119 we're trying to figure out, like, how did this old worldview come around 818 01:05:11,199 --> 01:05:15,159 that the Christians had at that time, And we're working on that in our 819 01:05:15,199 --> 01:05:23,199 current one with the Proto mark work. And if you look into different languages 820 01:05:23,199 --> 01:05:28,199 and cultures all across Europe and even into you know, Iran and India, 821 01:05:28,639 --> 01:05:32,599 there was an underlying it's called the Proto Indo European language, and they had 822 01:05:32,639 --> 01:05:38,360 a god broadly across those various cultures called Deus or deuz Potter, which is 823 01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:44,239 like sky god or godfather and Zeus. The name Zeus comes from that the 824 01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:51,480 name Jupiter, it's literally a variation of Deus Potter Jupiter. But he didn't 825 01:05:51,519 --> 01:05:55,639 create the world. He was a father, but he didn't create the world. 826 01:05:55,840 --> 01:06:01,159 And then Judaism is from a Semitic language, Hebrew, and they have 827 01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:06,679 a creator God who doesn't necessarily really have a son, depending on how you 828 01:06:06,719 --> 01:06:13,599 read it and stuff. So what we think happened is these merged and they 829 01:06:13,639 --> 01:06:15,559 took some from Judaism, they took that creator God and they decide, well, 830 01:06:15,559 --> 01:06:18,159 the creator God's really mean in the Old Testament, so we need another 831 01:06:18,199 --> 01:06:23,599 God. And they've got this one from you know, the Indo European cultures, 832 01:06:23,639 --> 01:06:27,440 like you know, Greek, and that's where God the Father came from. 833 01:06:27,639 --> 01:06:31,599 And then he sends down the sun to more or less ransom the souls 834 01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:42,400 of humanity from the mean God yahweh. Another kind of I guess name or 835 01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:47,360 kind of variant so to speak of Jupiter is jovis j O v ees. 836 01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:55,840 And what's interesting is that. And I'm going to use the English letters here. 837 01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:59,159 I know that technically, you know, there's Greek and you know, 838 01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:01,000 some Latin to a certain point and everything in order to get there. But 839 01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:08,199 the Gospels, the New Testament, they use something called the nominous sacra, 840 01:07:09,079 --> 01:07:12,599 and no one really knows why. No one really has a good answer why. 841 01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,239 And what that is is they would abbreviate words. They would abbreviate these 842 01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:23,320 names, like, for instance, Jesus would and again I'm using the English 843 01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:28,400 variant of these letters, but Jesus would be JS. That's it. And 844 01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,400 they didn't actually spell out Jesus for a really long time, but in the 845 01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:38,519 text Jesus was JS. That's more or less what he would be called. 846 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:45,559 And it's interesting because that could be really anything that in English has j jay 847 01:07:45,559 --> 01:07:50,000 at the beginning and S at the end, so it could be Jovis or 848 01:07:50,039 --> 01:07:55,280 it could be Jesus. You know, it's very possible that the earliest writers 849 01:07:55,840 --> 01:08:02,960 were more or less combining, like Matthew said, these concepts from the son 850 01:08:03,079 --> 01:08:11,159 of the Skyfather, the Godfather Jupiter and combining it with Judaism. The thesis 851 01:08:11,159 --> 01:08:15,119 for like Jesus would be the Romans needed something, which I think is strange 852 01:08:15,159 --> 01:08:20,000 too, but like the Catholic Church is based in Rome. Rome were the 853 01:08:20,039 --> 01:08:26,479 ones that supposedly crucified Christ you mentioned earlier, they kind of needed something too, 854 01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:30,279 not so much persuade the Jews, but like a different type of religion. 855 01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:35,479 It's almost like everything was made just to change, like the narrative to 856 01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:40,479 like I said before, and I've always the psycho means to control, I 857 01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:45,319 mean to some extent. You know, you look at the early church leaders 858 01:08:45,319 --> 01:08:50,079 and you see that, you know, they're writing some of this stuff that 859 01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:54,760 you know, they're they're making up a lot of the religion as you go, 860 01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:00,600 you know, as far as control, I mean maybe sure, you 861 01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:05,720 know, to keep power positions of power. Again, I there's no evidence 862 01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:11,119 to suggest that the Roman government is behind it, but I mean, obviously 863 01:09:11,159 --> 01:09:15,439 somebody, somebody is coming up with these stories and everything, and we just 864 01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,159 think that they're you know, just people, you know, human beings who 865 01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:23,399 are just saying, hey, you know, let me let me keep this 866 01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:27,800 thing going, you know, let me let me keep my position of power. 867 01:09:28,199 --> 01:09:33,000 Uh. There's this guy who wrote and some Christians will actually try to 868 01:09:33,039 --> 01:09:36,680 claim him as proof of Jesus, but he's not so late. It doesn't 869 01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:41,319 matter. But his name is Lucian, Lucian of Samasada. He was a 870 01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:45,439 satirist. He wrote a lot of it's pretty funny if you you know, 871 01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:49,239 if you take time to read them. But he wrote a lot of little 872 01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:56,199 stories, little little books. And in one of his books he writes about 873 01:09:56,199 --> 01:10:04,399 this guy named Peregrinus, Proteus, and Proteus comes from well, he comes 874 01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:08,920 from Asia Minor. He comes from modern day Turkey, where all of this 875 01:10:09,079 --> 01:10:15,560 is uh. And somehow he gets involved in a pretty pretty early in life 876 01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:19,840 as a young man, he gets involved with the Christians and he convinces them. 877 01:10:20,279 --> 01:10:27,159 According to Lucian, he had convinced him that he convinced them that he 878 01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:32,960 was really, really smart, and they harold him, heralded him as the 879 01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:38,359 the second coming is of Socrates. You know. They they loved him. 880 01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,640 They gave him food, they gave him sheltered, they gave him tons of 881 01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:45,880 money. Uh. And he he was just a con man. Proteus, 882 01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,159 he just he just ate it all up. He loved it. They they 883 01:10:48,199 --> 01:10:53,640 promoted him to bishop and stuff like that. Lucian said that he not only 884 01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:56,920 wrote books, but he edited other books and sent letters to a whole bunch 885 01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:00,079 of different cities, which, by the way, sounds a lot like Paul. 886 01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:04,119 Sounds a lot like you know, all these different all these different people 887 01:11:04,159 --> 01:11:08,680 that are writing these letters. Sounds a lot like another guy named Ignatious. 888 01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:12,600 He was writing letters to different cities and stuff like that. It sounds a 889 01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,439 lot like them. But anyways, Proteus. Eventually he ends up eating something 890 01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:18,039 that the Christians thought was unclean or something, and so they kick him out 891 01:11:18,039 --> 01:11:21,680 of the church. I mean, really finicky cut people. But ultimately, 892 01:11:23,319 --> 01:11:26,800 the entire point that Lucian was trying to make was that the Christians were so 893 01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:32,640 gullible that they just threw all their money at this guy. And so the 894 01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:42,840 takeaway here is that you have these people who are bishops in this religion, 895 01:11:44,359 --> 01:11:46,319 more or less creating this religion, making it up as they go along, 896 01:11:47,039 --> 01:11:50,840 but there is an incentive to keep doing it. There's an incentive to keep 897 01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:55,000 going. And you know, lots of times people say, oh, well, 898 01:11:55,039 --> 01:11:58,279 you know, you know, why would the Christians lie if they were 899 01:11:58,319 --> 01:12:00,359 getting they were getting killed, And it's like, well, there's actually very 900 01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:04,119 very little evidence that they ever really did. Like I said earlier, when 901 01:12:04,119 --> 01:12:08,479 Pliny wrote that letter to Trajan and he was explaining that he was torturing the 902 01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,039 Christians to try to figure out what they what they believed, Trajan said, 903 01:12:12,079 --> 01:12:13,960 hey, hey, cut that out, cut it out, don't don't don't 904 01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:17,279 worry about it, you know, unless they're like Christians and they refuse to 905 01:12:17,319 --> 01:12:24,279 take part in anything. You know, as far as the Roman Empire goes 906 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:29,039 don't don't mess with them, no, that kind of thing. So ultimately, 907 01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,319 ultimately there's not a lot of evidence that these guys were killed. In 908 01:12:32,359 --> 01:12:40,199 fact, there's more evidence that they were thrown bookoos of money and had great 909 01:12:40,239 --> 01:12:43,359 positions of power and influence over all these people. So it doesn't have to 910 01:12:43,359 --> 01:12:46,960 come from the government, just has to come from these preachers, right. 911 01:12:47,039 --> 01:12:51,760 And you know, we see in one of the letters that's used very frequently 912 01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:56,479 in terms of, you know, controlling a lot of what goes on in 913 01:12:56,479 --> 01:13:00,600 the church, multiple letters first Timothy, second Timothy entire and these are some 914 01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:05,640 of the latest letters. And in there we're actually able to tell that, 915 01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:10,520 not even we prove it with our style of metric analysis, but even without 916 01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:15,920 that in the text, we're able to identify that it is really late because 917 01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:20,039 the author is just so I guess self absorbed that he gives away who he 918 01:13:20,159 --> 01:13:25,479 is who is writing this letter, and it's not it's not Paul who the 919 01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:30,119 letter says this is for Paul. It's actually from someone named Polycarp and his 920 01:13:30,239 --> 01:13:34,439 scribe Crescence. And you see this name Carpus, which is the short version 921 01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:41,239 of what Polycarp's name would have been Polycarpus, Polycarpus, and then his scribe 922 01:13:41,279 --> 01:13:44,680 Crescence, which is in the actual letter from polycarp that we still have. 923 01:13:45,239 --> 01:13:53,960 And you know, these letters are used to fight back against other religious groups. 924 01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:58,199 It's the one i think that tells women to keep their head covered. 925 01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:06,359 It it more or less maintains the slave system in there. There's a lot 926 01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:10,279 of a lot of infighting going on. And then by the time you know, 927 01:14:10,359 --> 01:14:14,840 you get to Constantine, he has the church wipe out or not, 928 01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:16,680 it just church, the Roman Empire, wipe out, the Marcian knights, 929 01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:23,880 the opposing groups. And even up until like the twelve hundred's, the Catholic 930 01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:30,239 Church is putting out official decrees saying no one is allowed to read the Bible 931 01:14:30,359 --> 01:14:33,720 unless you are a priest. No one's allowed to translate it. Even if 932 01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:38,560 they can read, you know, they are not allowed to translate it, 933 01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:42,439 not allowed to read it. No one is able to access it except the 934 01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,199 clergy. Because when you actually read it, and if you read it close 935 01:14:45,279 --> 01:14:51,319 enough and with this you know, skeptical mindset about it, you start seeing 936 01:14:51,399 --> 01:14:57,600 names like you know, polycarp and things like that, and it's it's a 937 01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:02,439 trend throughout the history of the religion and a lot of religions. Yeah, 938 01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:08,479 I mean they're just they're they're clinging on to power and they can get away 939 01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:12,680 with it. I mean as soon as the I mean it's pretty well documented, 940 01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:15,920 believe it or not. You know, as soon as as soon as 941 01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:19,640 the Christians came to power in the three hundreds, they wasted no time destroying 942 01:15:20,039 --> 01:15:26,439 temples, destroying statues, destroying artwork, you know, claiming that you know, 943 01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:31,119 other people were uh Satanic and stuff like that. There's some there's a 944 01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:38,279 church father in the second century that said that uh Satan had gone around the 945 01:15:38,279 --> 01:15:41,880 world before Jesus even showed up and taught people how to take the Lord's supper, 946 01:15:42,159 --> 01:15:45,800 like drink wine as blood and eat bread as flesh, because that was 947 01:15:45,039 --> 01:15:48,119 a thing that was already around. There were already cults that were doing that 948 01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:51,039 before Jesus showed up. They just stole the idea and then just claimed it 949 01:15:51,039 --> 01:15:55,720 was satanic before Jesus shows up, which doesn't even make any sense. But 950 01:15:56,119 --> 01:15:58,960 you know that being said, you know, they just they did all kinds 951 01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:01,039 of stuff. I mean, look up, I mean, the listeners, 952 01:16:01,079 --> 01:16:06,760 anybody can can they can look up Hypatia. Hypatia she was. She was 953 01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:15,319 a Greek astronomer who was drug through the city into a temple called the Kasarian 954 01:16:15,399 --> 01:16:18,279 and murdered by the Christians in the three hundreds because they claimed that she was 955 01:16:18,319 --> 01:16:24,199 just a witch like she had. I mean, as soon as they came 956 01:16:24,199 --> 01:16:27,359 to power, they were just there was mad with it, mad with it. 957 01:16:27,359 --> 01:16:32,800 It was their turn to be the boot, and they went to town 958 01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:39,479 stopping Here we are almost two thousand years later, and it still seems to 959 01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:44,279 be that way. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I do have something again, 960 01:16:44,319 --> 01:16:47,000 Like I mentioned, I wanted to talk about. Yeah, and this 961 01:16:47,039 --> 01:16:51,039 is going to go on the wu wu side, that supernatural element. But 962 01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:58,199 many people that I've talked to at this show, they tend to think and 963 01:16:58,319 --> 01:17:05,720 say that when they have weird experiences obviously like something paranormal, and I've had 964 01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:11,079 my own weird stuff happen too. If they claim they use the name of 965 01:17:11,159 --> 01:17:15,279 Jesus Christ, it makes these into teas, the spirits, these whatever that 966 01:17:15,359 --> 01:17:18,800 could possibly be. Even people have claimed they've been abducted by aliens, claim 967 01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:23,960 they've rebuked the aliens with Jesus Christ and that leaves them alone. Why would 968 01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:29,439 a name have so much power if the thing didn't exist. Like that's where 969 01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:30,880 I've always come back to, Like when people say, oh, you just 970 01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:34,159 need to pray to Jesus this and that, I'm like, why would that 971 01:17:34,199 --> 01:17:39,319 even work if? Because I'm not a religious person. So it's like, 972 01:17:40,119 --> 01:17:42,920 if I'm praying, I'm going through here and saying this in the name of 973 01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,800 Jesus Christ whatever, it's going to listen to me even if I don't believe. 974 01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:51,399 Like, how does that work? Matthew, if you wanted to take 975 01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:55,720 that, I know that you had talked a little bit about that particular book 976 01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:58,600 of I think it was a book of spells or something that that was written 977 01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:01,640 or something. Yeah, actually was what I was thinking of. I don't 978 01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:05,520 remember exactly when it was written. It was somewhere between like the years two 979 01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:11,359 hundred and three hundred, I think. But there is a collection of spells 980 01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:15,199 from I think it's in Egypt, and it's just collection of spells from around 981 01:18:15,199 --> 01:18:19,880 the Roman Empire. You know, somebody went around the empire and collected what 982 01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:24,079 they believed were powerful sayings. And I say it spells, but it was 983 01:18:24,119 --> 01:18:28,079 just kind of variations. It might be spelled, it might be mantras, 984 01:18:28,119 --> 01:18:32,880 it's just variations of you know, spoken words that they thought had power, 985 01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:39,039 and one of them is actually Jesus and it's not Christ. It's a chrest, 986 01:18:39,079 --> 01:18:42,359 which is really interesting because it means like the Good, which is what 987 01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,439 a lot of Marcianites called him. It wasn't Jesus the messiah anointed one. 988 01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:51,039 It was Jesus the good or the righteous one. And this wasn't even necessarily 989 01:18:51,039 --> 01:18:57,279 a Christian book. They just but it was collected in with all these others 990 01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,279 we were saying earlier. I mean, this book that we wrote, Christ 991 01:19:04,279 --> 01:19:11,319 before Jesus is about the historical aspects of it. We really don't delve into 992 01:19:11,359 --> 01:19:15,960 the religious aspects. Obviously there was some belief that started a christ movement. 993 01:19:16,079 --> 01:19:23,119 We just think that the historical figure that it became like you know, like 994 01:19:23,159 --> 01:19:27,399 the guy with the beard and long hair and the white robes, if you 995 01:19:27,399 --> 01:19:31,000 whether it's that or like a more like historical so to speak, idea of 996 01:19:31,079 --> 01:19:35,239 him that just came later and is what was made up. We don't really 997 01:19:35,279 --> 01:19:41,920 speak to anybody's you know, experiences or their beliefs before we try to guess, 998 01:19:42,159 --> 01:19:45,640 you know, and try to do work out what we can based off 999 01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:49,680 of what texts we do have, but you know, it's beyond the purview 1000 01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:53,600 of this specific book we are working on. Like we said that proto Mark 1001 01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,760 one to try to get a better idea of where this all came from, 1002 01:19:57,319 --> 01:20:00,560 Jared, if you wanted to do right, but I would, however, 1003 01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:02,960 you know, just to try to attempt to, you know, answer the 1004 01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:08,680 book at all that you know, it seems to have been something that people 1005 01:20:09,199 --> 01:20:14,560 thought worked or felt worked or whatever, you know, going back you know, 1006 01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:17,760 you know, eighteen hundred years, you know, you know, I 1007 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:23,600 got the more or less the Marshie Knights were someone vaguely familiar with them. 1008 01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:28,359 There seemed to be using some kind of mantra with that name, thinking that 1009 01:20:28,399 --> 01:20:34,520 it would be beneficial you know, against you know, bad spirits or anything 1010 01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:39,600 like that. So I mean it seems to date back really, really far. 1011 01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:43,760 But again, you know, obviously he doesn't exist. He doesn't exist, 1012 01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:47,079 and so you know, people can deal with that however they want to 1013 01:20:47,079 --> 01:20:51,600 deal with it. But I mean, ultimately we do kind of see something 1014 01:20:51,760 --> 01:21:00,640 kind of trace back. I think the concept of Jesus was something that works 1015 01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:03,039 for people and if they want to believe in it, and if that helps 1016 01:21:03,039 --> 01:21:08,159 them be a good person and sleep better at night. I'm all for that, 1017 01:21:09,159 --> 01:21:14,439 but that's what that's. That's faith basically, like if you have faith 1018 01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:16,279 in something and you live a good life. That's what I said earlier. 1019 01:21:16,359 --> 01:21:20,319 I'm not a religious person, but I think if you're a good person, 1020 01:21:21,119 --> 01:21:25,840 That's what I think most of this stuff was always about. Is they're trying 1021 01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:29,600 to set like almost like guidelines, and for whatever reason, they made a 1022 01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:36,119 mythological main character to set out these guidelines. Yeah, I mean there was 1023 01:21:36,159 --> 01:21:43,479 obviously some kind of intent initially, whether that be you know, to try 1024 01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:48,720 to you know, poke fun or to you know, dismiss a lot of 1025 01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:54,079 the Jewish beliefs because I mean, you know, if you're writing Post one 1026 01:21:54,239 --> 01:22:00,800 thirty six and the Jews have just come out and droves from Judea because of 1027 01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:03,520 the Barkope revolt and everything like that, and they're now in your country, 1028 01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:11,800 I mean, maybe maybe there could be some animosity there which led to the 1029 01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:18,199 creation of the First Gospel proto Mark. There there's you know, we don't 1030 01:22:18,199 --> 01:22:20,640 know the intent. We don't know if it's that, we don't know if 1031 01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:25,600 it's someone who just really really really likes the Jews and wants to kind of 1032 01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:28,720 write something with that backdrop. We don't know if it's somebody who just picked 1033 01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:31,319 up the book of Josephus, you know, some of his books and thought, 1034 01:22:31,359 --> 01:22:34,079 okay, let me let me write a story that's kind of based on 1035 01:22:34,399 --> 01:22:38,920 We don't know. It seems to be a play. It seems to be 1036 01:22:39,359 --> 01:22:42,319 you know, some kind of, like you said, a mythological kind of 1037 01:22:42,359 --> 01:22:45,359 story at first that just kind of took off, but we don't know the 1038 01:22:45,359 --> 01:22:53,560 intent. And I mean, ultimately, you know, if somebody did truly 1039 01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:59,439 sort of kind of hope that there was some savior and that was their fictional 1040 01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,319 story of this savior that they were wanting, sure great. You know, 1041 01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:05,520 I don't know what the intent was. I don't know if it was to 1042 01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:11,079 establish rules or not. But eventually, you know, there was a you 1043 01:23:11,119 --> 01:23:15,800 know, it spread with a whole bunch of downtrodden people, people who are 1044 01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:20,119 uneducated and people who were you know, disenfranchised. So I mean, you 1045 01:23:20,199 --> 01:23:26,159 do kind of find that kind of like that that that faith element of it 1046 01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,800 that seems to keep people happy, which again, you know, I don't 1047 01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:35,439 necessarily don't want to necessarily step on anybody's happiness or anything I just care about 1048 01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:41,159 personally just the truth, you know, and putting that out there. And 1049 01:23:41,199 --> 01:23:45,800 so yeah, I mean, if somebody wants to believe in Jesus that yeah, 1050 01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:49,479 I mean that's fine. But I guess my only recommendation there would be 1051 01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:55,000 to, hey, you know, recognize that this is this is mythical that 1052 01:23:55,199 --> 01:23:58,000 you know, you can believe in Hercules, you can pray to Hercules. 1053 01:23:58,039 --> 01:24:01,439 I don't know, I don't give a shit, you know, just ultimately, 1054 01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:12,319 just come on, like, don't don't hold on to this dogmatic belief 1055 01:24:12,359 --> 01:24:17,800 system. This this book that was written years and years ago and is demonstrably 1056 01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:26,720 false, and and somehow use what's in it to dictate how you treat other 1057 01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:31,000 people and how you how you think about other people, and ultimately how you 1058 01:24:31,079 --> 01:24:36,520 vote. You know. I mean, if you have a belief in something, 1059 01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:40,640 you have a belief in something, you know, and if it's based 1060 01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:44,359 in truth, it's based in truth, and that's awesome. But you gotta 1061 01:24:44,399 --> 01:24:50,199 be careful when you back up your beliefs with something that isn't real. As 1062 01:24:50,279 --> 01:24:55,359 Voltaire said, you know, when we believe, when we believe absurdities, 1063 01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:59,760 we commit atrocities. We don't exist in a vacuum and eventually your beliefs will 1064 01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,520 come out, So be very careful as to what we put into our brains. 1065 01:25:03,319 --> 01:25:08,640 No, I agree with that. There's a lot of faith being put 1066 01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:14,920 into a lot of things, and I think what nowadays people's religion and faith 1067 01:25:15,039 --> 01:25:20,119 is what is being manipulated into other avenues of life. I'm not going to 1068 01:25:20,119 --> 01:25:26,760 go down that rabbit hole in this episode, but there's a lot of things 1069 01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:30,439 when it comes to religion that I feel like is being used as means now 1070 01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:36,319 more nefariously than what it was originally intended for. And I think Matthew would 1071 01:25:36,319 --> 01:25:40,960 probably agree on that too. Yeah, yeah, And that was kind of 1072 01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:45,039 almost the message of the whole thing is that, like it's just not what 1073 01:25:45,199 --> 01:25:49,279 it originally started out as, not as what it was intended for, for 1074 01:25:49,399 --> 01:25:57,079 better or worse, Religion now, especially Christianity, is a very big profitable 1075 01:25:58,119 --> 01:26:01,279 thing to be involved in. And I'll just at that. Yeah, yeah, 1076 01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:05,880 yeah, And I mean I think, you know, as time goes 1077 01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:10,760 on, I think that we're going to see like I mentioned earlier, I 1078 01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:14,520 think we're going to I think I mentioned earlier, I don't know that, 1079 01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:17,680 uh, you know, I think we're going to see yeah, that that 1080 01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:26,000 scholarship is going to start kind of more or less trending towards the mythicism, 1081 01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:30,720 uh standpoint, and the idea that Jesus didn't exist that uh. You know 1082 01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:35,439 a lot of these characters from the New Testament were probably you know, made 1083 01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:39,600 up for a particular purpose, you know, to advance the particular religion, 1084 01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:42,880 and made up over time, historicized over time, you know that kind of 1085 01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:48,000 thing. And so you know, I do see that things will probably move 1086 01:26:48,039 --> 01:26:54,119 that direction, and eager to see what that looks like and how that unfolds 1087 01:26:54,119 --> 01:26:58,479 into you know, daily life and society as we know it. You know, 1088 01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:00,319 obviously it's got to trickle down. It's starts with the scholars and then 1089 01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:05,920 and then finally you know, it gets maybe talked about in a college course, 1090 01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:10,720 and then eventually it goes to maybe K through twelve eventually, you know, 1091 01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:13,319 you know what I mean, Like, you know, over time, 1092 01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:17,800 that kind of concept just kind of trickles through, trickles through you know, 1093 01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:24,199 education, trickles through our understanding of the world and everything. I mean, 1094 01:27:24,279 --> 01:27:29,479 already we're starting to see a lower amount here in America of people who go 1095 01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:36,239 to church or people who consider themselves religious. You know, it's it's there's 1096 01:27:36,279 --> 01:27:44,000 a movement and specific that is seeming to really take place. And then when 1097 01:27:44,039 --> 01:27:48,560 you listen to the diehards that are still religious, Yeah, they people that 1098 01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:54,079 don't go to church and removing God from this, like you can't say in 1099 01:27:54,119 --> 01:27:59,800 God we trust or prayers in school and everything else depending on what part of 1100 01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:05,039 the country or in I'm in a very deep red state, so everything here 1101 01:28:05,239 --> 01:28:15,520 is super religious. And if you go down that route to where you're trying 1102 01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:18,960 to remove things, people are getting upset around here just because you're trying to 1103 01:28:19,039 --> 01:28:25,439 uproot everything they've been taught. And it's very hard for anyone to accept anything 1104 01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:30,800 new, right, right, And I mean, I mean that's that's what 1105 01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:33,239 life is all about, in my opinion, is growing as a human being. 1106 01:28:33,399 --> 01:28:38,439 And a lot of that is, you know, taking taking new information 1107 01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:41,520 and processing it and thinking, hey, you know, do I need to 1108 01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:45,079 do I need to change who I am? Do I need to change what 1109 01:28:45,159 --> 01:28:47,239 I believe? Do I need to tweak it? You know? Or is 1110 01:28:47,399 --> 01:28:51,560 you know possible that what you hear might be complete and total bs And if 1111 01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:55,640 that's the case, well you know that's the case. But I think the 1112 01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:58,880 best way to determine if it is is to make sure that you live your 1113 01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:02,159 life believing is many true things as possible and not believing as many false things 1114 01:29:02,159 --> 01:29:06,640 as possible, and possibly you know, being able to use that as a 1115 01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:13,439 as a barrier or that as a barometer for how you want to determine if 1116 01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:16,600 something is you know, a good new idea or not. You know, 1117 01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:21,000 anyone that's listened to the show should know by now that I remained skeptical on 1118 01:29:21,079 --> 01:29:27,359 a lot of things, and I've always encouraged everyone to keep a healthy dope 1119 01:29:27,399 --> 01:29:31,439 with dose of skepticism when it comes to any topics that people bring on here. 1120 01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:36,079 Not to discredit any guests or anything like that, but yeah, it's 1121 01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:40,960 I believe in what I believe. I know what I can see and what 1122 01:29:41,039 --> 01:29:43,760 science proves. But at the same time, science doesn't prove everything, and 1123 01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:46,159 I've seen some stuff that science shouldn't even say, like there's no proof of 1124 01:29:46,199 --> 01:29:50,600 it. So it's like, I know what I saw, So I'm not 1125 01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:54,760 going to discredit anyone else for like the weird things that they see too. 1126 01:29:54,880 --> 01:30:00,520 But when it comes to like religious aspects, wasn't there two thousand years ago? 1127 01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:06,880 So if someone wants to have faith. Like I've said, I if 1128 01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:13,479 religion works for people, what's great. But I've just always it's not been 1129 01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:15,840 my thing. Right, And like we said, you know, this isn't 1130 01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:20,079 an atheist book or anything. Christ Before Jesus is a you know, it's 1131 01:30:20,119 --> 01:30:23,680 a book that just presents what, you know, what we found, you 1132 01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:27,960 know. I mean one could literally read the entire book, believe everything that 1133 01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:30,600 we say and still have believe in God. I mean yeah, in fact, 1134 01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:33,600 you could even be a Christian. You know, you could just accept 1135 01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:38,479 that, you know, Christian just kind of means something a little bit less 1136 01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:41,600 historical now, maybe as a mystery cult or something. But yeah, you 1137 01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:45,079 could make one hundred percent. You know, we we debated whether or not 1138 01:30:45,159 --> 01:30:48,000 I think Matthew was thinking about whether or not. You know, we put 1139 01:30:48,039 --> 01:30:50,560 that into the to the end of the book. You know, something about 1140 01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:57,199 you know how Christianity. You know, if maybe it had accepted or maybe 1141 01:30:57,399 --> 01:31:00,920 if it today accepted you know, it's more of its roots, maybe you 1142 01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:05,199 would look different. I don't know, yeah, because we were saying, 1143 01:31:05,199 --> 01:31:08,960 you know, those a lot of the fake letters are where you find these 1144 01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:12,560 things, like you know, the women need to be silent and stuff, 1145 01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:15,279 like that those were like all of it. Yeah, I was written way 1146 01:31:15,319 --> 01:31:17,840 after the fact that those are ten to be the latest ones and the ones 1147 01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:23,399 that are being written by these bishops and such that have some interest in protecting 1148 01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:27,479 their power. So the original religion, you know, had that kind of 1149 01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:30,600 like the mysterious aspect of spiritual savior, things like that, and there still 1150 01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:34,039 are some moral teachings behind it, but it didn't have all of that the 1151 01:31:34,079 --> 01:31:40,880 baggage that it developed over the next hundred and plus years. Yeah, that's 1152 01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:45,239 kind of where I've said, not like it was used once you got out 1153 01:31:45,239 --> 01:31:48,399 there for the people in power to want to stay in power, like to 1154 01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:51,319 control their narrative. They wanted to feed it on the people, so everyone 1155 01:31:51,359 --> 01:31:55,359 had to believe what they wanted them to believe in so they could keep on 1156 01:31:56,399 --> 01:32:00,520 being in charge for the church and whatever else they wanted to do. I 1157 01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:03,720 think they influenced a lot of how life has become the way it is now. 1158 01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:11,960 But that's my my ten foil hat thought for the night. Nice, 1159 01:32:13,239 --> 01:32:16,319 No, if you guys would like to let everyone know where they can find 1160 01:32:16,359 --> 01:32:19,279 your book. We're getting about to get close to over an hour and a 1161 01:32:19,319 --> 01:32:24,000 half, so we kind of wrap this one up. Oh yeah, yeah. 1162 01:32:24,039 --> 01:32:29,960 So again, our book comes out specifically on March sixteenth, that is 1163 01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:36,079 three sixteen. We did that on purpose, and it comes out on Amazon 1164 01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:43,000 on print. We're going to we're finishing up an audiobook hopefully it'll be around 1165 01:32:43,039 --> 01:32:48,039 the same time, and also ebook copy, and as far as ebook goes, 1166 01:32:48,079 --> 01:32:49,960 you know, look, we're not trying to get rich off of this 1167 01:32:50,039 --> 01:32:55,439 kind of stuff. We're putting the ebook at two dollars and ninety nine cents, 1168 01:32:56,319 --> 01:32:58,720 so you know, right when it comes out, we're going to have 1169 01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:04,039 it at two ninety nine and and yeah, I mean it again, we're 1170 01:33:04,039 --> 01:33:05,760 not going to get rich off of it. We're just trying to get the 1171 01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:12,479 idea out there because the way that scholarship kind of looks at this, you 1172 01:33:12,479 --> 01:33:18,079 know, is they they want to see certain credentials before they really start taking 1173 01:33:18,079 --> 01:33:21,920 a look from a peer review kind of standpoint. You know, if we 1174 01:33:23,279 --> 01:33:25,840 submitted this to scholars, they'd say, oh, you know, did you 1175 01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:30,880 go to a seminary or did you do you have a PhD in Greek or 1176 01:33:31,039 --> 01:33:34,319 you know, all these different things that we just simply don't have. So 1177 01:33:34,479 --> 01:33:42,680 ultimately, we did notice that a lot of Mythhaesist authors would get mentioned by 1178 01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:47,479 scholars and they would feel obligated to respond to these authors. If the authors 1179 01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:53,720 were you know, if they sold enough books, if they sold enough books, 1180 01:33:53,720 --> 01:33:55,680 you know, if they got popular enough, then yeah, a lot 1181 01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:58,800 of these scholars would have to respond. So more or less, that is 1182 01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:01,039 our only way, that's our only way of actually getting in front of these 1183 01:34:01,079 --> 01:34:05,840 guys. So ultimately, yeah, we're not trying to get rich. We're 1184 01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:10,439 just trying to get the idea out there and you know, maybe have a 1185 01:34:10,479 --> 01:34:13,520 lot of scholarship taking take another look at the Bible, take another look at 1186 01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:17,600 the New Testament. Yeah, and we also do lives on TikTok just so 1187 01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:23,640 people like if you hear this and anybody wants to ask us questions directly. 1188 01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:27,359 We try to be accessible, just like that software we use, open source 1189 01:34:27,399 --> 01:34:30,000 free, everybody can do it. We welcome all different people come in, 1190 01:34:30,279 --> 01:34:33,000 ask questions if they get it or not, the book or not. You 1191 01:34:33,039 --> 01:34:40,560 know, we're on every week, so I will include a link in the 1192 01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:44,000 show notes to the book because by the time this airs, which will probably 1193 01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:45,960 be I think the first or second week of April, your book should already 1194 01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:50,119 be out for about a week or two. So I'll have the link in 1195 01:34:50,159 --> 01:34:53,920 the show notes for anyone that's interested, and if you want to send me 1196 01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:56,600 the link to your TikTok, I can put that on there as well, 1197 01:34:57,199 --> 01:34:59,840 defintely. Well, thank you, sir, Yeah, not a problem. 1198 01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:02,039 I appreciate you guys coming on here and talking with me and night. It's 1199 01:35:02,039 --> 01:35:08,159 been a pleasure, absolutely, been very informative and little eye opening here and 1200 01:35:08,199 --> 01:35:12,840 there. Well, thanks, thanks, and hopefully we didn't put too many 1201 01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:15,640 people to sleep, but you know, I throw it on if you need 1202 01:35:15,680 --> 01:35:19,600 a good night sleep or too many pitchforks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1203 01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:23,399 You're either going to get people who are like, wow, that was the 1204 01:35:23,399 --> 01:35:26,239 most boring thing ever, and then the other half are going to be like 1205 01:35:26,359 --> 01:35:30,920 we're gonna kill everybody. I think with the way my show is, they 1206 01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:34,640 kind of should know at this point, this after eighty something episodes, they 1207 01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:41,119 should know that there's always going to be those topics that don't always fall into 1208 01:35:41,239 --> 01:35:45,760 the weird paranormal stuff. But gotcha, I have noticed that when I do 1209 01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:50,079 I wouldn't say this is not so much conspiratorial, but like when I do 1210 01:35:50,159 --> 01:35:56,199 the stuff the ventures off, it seems to ruffle a lot of feathers, 1211 01:35:56,239 --> 01:36:00,319 so I enjoy having topics that might get people talking. So got you, 1212 01:36:00,359 --> 01:36:04,119 got you? Well, thank you very much for having us on. It's 1213 01:36:04,159 --> 01:36:10,560 been a pleasure. No, definitely, And again, anyone listening, if 1214 01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:13,600 you would like to find the book, you can just check out the show 1215 01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:16,000 notes and we'll take you right there. But again we're gonna head on out, 1216 01:36:16,079 --> 01:36:19,760 So thanks to Jared and thanks to Matthew, and good night everyone. 1217 01:36:27,079 --> 01:36:30,720 Remember the truth lies, and the stories we share, the connections we make, 1218 01:36:30,039 --> 01:36:33,239 stay curious, stay open minded. Thank you all for joining us on 1219 01:36:33,279 --> 01:36:38,279 this journey, and until next time, keep questioning, keep seeking, and 1220 01:36:38,359 --> 01:37:06,439 keep exploring the end nowe good night everyone,