Black in technology, Black black in technology, black in technology? Why black
in technology? In technology? Why black in technology? On this episode of
the bit tech Talk podcast, Greg sits down with recent tech boot Camp graduate
Dshay wood Dushe shares her journey of participating in the Tech Elevator boot Camp after
receiving a Bit Foundation scholarship in twenty twenty two, when she made the decision
to pivot from a career in the education and nonprofit and dive into the tech
sphere. Sit back and relax as we learn more about our wonderful guest with
our hosts of the Bit tech Talk Podcast, Greg Greenley, Hey, Dshay
Welcome to the podcast. I'm happy to be here, Greg. How are
you going pretty well? About you? I'm doing pretty good. I can't
complain excellent, excellent. So you know, we're always typically start our Q
and A with, you know, telling us a little bit about yourself,
you know, kind of where you're from, your education and things like that.
Righty, will Um, I'm originally from Detroit, Michigan. I was
born and raised there. Um and I did my undergrad over at Western Michigan
University in Kalamazoo. Got my degree in our education, then decided that,
UM, I wanted to move to Grand Rapids where I currently am. UM
did a little bit of work within education and nonprofit and UM now currently I'm
making I just made that career change and I'm in tech right now and I'm
loving it excellent. Are you Are you a Pistons fan or is how what's
what is your loyal cy la at in Detroit? UM, I'm pretty loyal
to all the teams, you know, the Lion you know, I always
say, like, especially with the Pistons and the Lions, like we always
have like this underdog faith even though like we're hoping that they can get to
you know, the finals, we're always you know, cheering a rooting for
him, UM every year. So you know, I'm always gonna have faith.
You know that the Pistons don't make it, the Lions don't make it.
Everybody from Detroit it's gonna make it right right right? Yeah, I've
been in Detroite a few times. UM. There was actually a conference,
a software developers conference up there called self uh and it was held is it
the River River City Casino or Motor City Motor City Motor City Casino? Uh?
And UH, the wife and I we used to we go up there.
We just make kind of like a weekend of it. I like I
like Detroit. I like to, you know what, because I come from
you know, I live in Cincinnati. Uh in Detroit is black, yes,
yes, seeing people there, so it's it's a totally different atmosphere and
environment and people are super welcoming and yeah, so I love I love coming
up there. Nice. So you came, you know, from a career
educationally, what specifically did you do? I know you you know you you
graduated from uh was it Western Michigan with a degree in education. But you
know after that, like kind of what were some of your your your jobs
and your titles? Yeah, so, Um, originally I was running an
arts program for the Boys and Girls Club in the Greater Kalamazoo. UM did
that for a couple of years, so, you know, did all of
their arts, music, UM, creative writing, dance, pretty much anything
you can think of creatively was what I ran over at the Boys and Girls
Club. UM decided to kind of shift more into education a little bit and
became an e LA specialist at a charter academy over in Kalamazoo. Realized that
education wasn't necessarily something I wanted to do, but I still wanted to be
involved with the youth, with the kids, and so I ended up getting
a program manager program coordinator position for the City of Wyoming for their Parks and
Recreation program and ran that program for two years. And yeah, that's pretty
much what I did prior to making that transition on over into tech. So
it sounds like you were kind of like on the artistic side of education for
a while. Were you an artistic person? Like how did that come about?
Yeah, Like, I've always been told that I was extremely creative,
and I felt, if I'm creative, then I might as well, you
know, go to school of doing something that you know I'm good at and
I love to do. So what my education consisted of was art education specifically.
So I wanted to go in being an art teacher, but I kind
of realized that I didn't necessarily want it. I didn't necessarily want to teach
in like a formal a formal classroom environment. I wanted to have a little
bit more freedom and flexibility on how creative I could be teaching the kids.
And so that's kind of why I steered a little bit away from teaching in
the actual like classroom classroom as an art teacher. But I loved working in
nonprofit you know. I loved being able to expose, especially like black kids
to certain things that maybe they don't get the opportunity to do in school or
in their normal day to day lives. And I just wanted to be kind
of a representation of Hey, there are black you know artists, there are
black you know creatives that love what they do and want to be able to
give back to their community. And so, yeah, I loved my time
as an artist back then. I still to do a little bit of it
now. I'm mostly a painter, So painting was that I concentrated in when
I was at Western. So I just pretty much do that on my downtime
when I just need a break and I need to do a little bit of
mindless work. So yes, that's pretty much you know, what I do
creatively right now. Very cool, very cool, and and you know,
I know software engineering is not exactly um all right, but I think I
think there's a creative side of you know, coding and and things like that,
uh, that you can bring from you know, your artistic in your
creative mind as a matter of fact, people a lot of what a lot
of people don't understand or might might not know, is that especially nowadays with
uh non traditional you know education around boot camps and you know self you know,
being able to be self taught, that there are software engineers that don't
come from like a CS background, right and and and when you start looking
into their backgrounds, you see that, uh there's a number of them that
are actually artists and their musicians, uh you know, their painters, their
you know, creatives and things like that. And from what I understand,
it really helps them, you know, and their and their software development and
you know kind of being able to think creatively and things like that. Yeah.
Absolutely, it definitely helps me per se because I will say, when
you're in a creative space, so when you come from a creative background,
um, you you deal a lot with criticism and making mistakes. To how
it kind of helped build you grow, I mean help you build and grow.
Um. You allow yourself to make mistakes, you allow yourself to fall
so that you can find different methods of doing different things. And so that's
really one of the big things that really helped me, UM in my transition
was you know, not being afraid to make those mistakes and kind of being
able to think outside the box a little bit, right, because when you're
a creative, you always want to you know, make that shock value or
you always want to either get people to think or you want people to you
know, kind of see your vision of what it is that you're trying to
put out there. And a lot of times you do have to think outside
of the box or you know, kind of disrupt the pattern in terms of
what is normally done. And I feel like a lot of that, you
know, is easily transferable, you know, into a software engineering role,
right because you're gonna be able to find different pathways to get to the same
goal and sometimes doing it, you know, one way may not necessarily work
for you, and sometimes you do have to kind of think creatively or think
outside the box and say, hey, you know, I need this solution.
I can't figure out the solution to this specific problem. What are some
other things that I can do that I haven't done yet that could possibly get
it to work. So, you know, I'm always a big proponent of
you know, creatives turn tech because you know, they always bring that that
innovation, they always bring that creativity to the space. And I always say
that, you know, if you really want to go far in tech,
you really have to be innovative and you really have to be creative with how
you move about in this space. So um yeah, yeah, he said
a lot, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Uh. And it's it's
really a good time to to you know, kind of have that mindset as
far as uh, failing and you know, kind of learning from those failures
because I've been I've been in tech for over twenty something years and you know,
back in the day, making a mistake could be a death wish uh.
And nowadays, you know, more more company cultures are adopting, you
know, having a blameless culture, right and using using failures as teaching moments
as opposed to disciplinary and our disciplinary you know moments right uh. And so
you know, it's it's all about the post mortem, right, Like if
something that there's an outage, or if there's you know, some bad code
that happens to make it way in production and cause everything to fail. Oh,
like how did that happen? And you know, what can we do
to mitigate that in the future, And you know, let's have this post
mortem and you know, hash everything out so that we all can learn from
it. Like that's kind of where things have been or for a number of
years. So I think, you know, that's that's a really good mindset
to have and it's a really good time to be in tech because of that.
Absolutely, that is always focused on forming new partnerships and opportunities to assist
the community and our members with their continued professional growth and development. If you'd
like to partner with us, send an email inquiries at blocks and Technology dot
net. So you were you were, I know you mentioned what what what
the job worlds do? Non profit UM? So I worked for several So
the first nonprofit I worked for was the Boys and Girls Up UM, and
then I made a transition UM into the City of Wyoming Forum there after school
program. And then my last nonprofit that I worked at was called Playworks UM.
I don't know if you've heard of it before, but essentially UM they're
revolutionizing the way that kids play and it's basically being able to kind of take
recess and turn it into UM a classroom where kids can learn about social emotional
learning UM and be able to learn kind of like those social skills UM.
While they play um and so I worked there for a little bit before or
I transitioned into tech. So I love play works, you know, if
you if you ever get a chance to you know, yeah, definitely,
definitely. They have a great curriculum and a great program over there. Okay,
nice, Nice, So tell me, like, you know, you
work in educational space, nonprofit space. What what made you decide to pivot
and your career and get into the tech. I always say that I think
for a lot of people, COVID has played a big part in kind of
making people, you know, be really self reflective and an introspective on kind
of like where they are in life and where they're looking to go and what
I loved what I did. I felt like I was very stagnant in my
learning. I consider myself to be a lifelong learner. So if I'm in
spaces that continue to challenge me or continue to push me to learn and grow,
I feel like that's where I thrived. And I felt like in that
moment why I didn't feel like I was being you know, challenged enough,
and I felt like I just wanted something different. And I got exposed to
tech through like a number of different things. You know, I had friends
who were considering tech that had recommended like, hey, you should, you
know, try to check out coding and see if you like it. You
know, social media has definitely played a big part in you know, exposing
people, especially black people to tech because I think a lot of us and
you know, I'm sure you've been in it for a long time, so
I'm sure you've noticed that a lot of times there's not a whole lot of
representation or there hasn't been a whole lot of representation of you know, black
people within the IT space, within the tech space. And so social media
really opened up that door for me to be able to see like real life
people being not only being able to make that transition, but to be successful
in tech regardless of whatever background they came from. And so I said,
you know, hey, um, I'll make the dive, I'll make the
risk. Like what's the worst that can happen? You know, Um,
I can always just go back to nonprofit and education and be fined there.
And I always tell people like, once I started coding, I literally couldn't
put it down. It was something that you know, challenged me. It
was something that pushed me to learn. Um, pushed me to grow and
UM it just sparked my creativity that I felt like I had lost UM kind
of being redundant and and and doing the kind of the going in the hamster
wheel UM of education. And I'm sure a lot of educators can you know,
relate to that, and that you're you're constantly being regulated by UM you
know, rules and lesson plans and UM benchmarks and you know, trying to
get test scores up or trying to you know, meet meet reach those deadlines.
And I didn't I didn't necessarily want want to be constricted by that UM
and and so yeah, that was really the big Those are some of the
big things that really pushed me to tech and I mean less we really like
when you're in education, Like it's almost a double whammy to be a creative
in the nonprofit or education space because we probably do the most amount of work
and get the least amount of pay. That's pretty much what I tell people
off the time. So UM tech gives me the opportunity to you know,
be able to do something I love and have that financial stability to be able
to kind of pass that on to the next generation. Nice I'm glad you.
You said that because well, a couple of things you know, um
about what you said. You know, you were mentioning like seeing things on
social media friends were kind of encouraging you to start coding, and you know
that's that's the whole reason, you know, or not the whole reason.
That's one of the reasons why I BID exists, like part of our mission
as too increase the representation of black people in tech. And whenever I give
interviews and I say that, I always try to caveat that with like I'm
not I'm not trying to say to you know, quote unquote white America like
hey, we're in this space. I'm actually trying to reach back to our
community and say, hey, this is a space that we belong in too,
And if if you see me and you see others in this space,
you know, maybe that will encourage you to want to pursue it or at
least see as as an option for yourself. Um. And so that that
representation is more more for us than than than anything. The second thing you
mentioned is about, you know, just having that economic stability and a lot
of people you know kind of assume like, oh, you know, Greg,
you you found it bit, you know, just to you know,
uh, to tackle diversity. And I'm like, no, uh, I
mean that's I guess you can say that's part of it. But the other
part is like I've I've thrived in tech you know for the past twenty years.
It's enabled me to be able to take care of my family and do
things that you know, my mom or dad weren't able to do, um,
create generational wealth, those types of things. And that's that's the biggest
thing I feel anyhow for wanting to get more black people in tech is to
you know, kind of want to have that progress, uh and be able
to have other people built that generational wealth and pass it down to their kids.
So for the economic part of that is more important to me than and
you know, fulfilling you know, whether or not you know, a company's
diversity numbers go go up. I feel I feel like if we can get
more people in tech, you know, for the economic part, the other
part to handle itself, right, absolutely, So, yeah, those are
good points. Um, you were you know a bit scholarship elevator. Yes,
talk a little bit about that. Well, how did you learn about
tech elevator? Actually I learned about it through a website called career Karma.
I don't know if you've you've heard of that site, but essentially it provides
people with resources on you know, different types of tech boot camps or programs
that are focused on bringing you know, minorities or people of color into the
tech space. And so, uh, they actually do like a quick like
quiz or questionnaire on you know, what is it that you're looking for?
You know, where your strengths um, you know, kind of where do
you see yourself in the future. And that's kind of pretty much how I
stumbled upon tech Elevator, and I got the chance to do a little bit
of research on the program and what it was like, and I really loved
UM a whole process of how they nurture people from all different backgrounds UM and
build them up to be able to be successful UM going out into the tech
space UM and whatever feel they choose to UM go after. So yeah,
yeah, and we have a we have a real good relationship with with tech
Elevators. I know that there's a you know, a kind of a rigorous
process in the beginning. To tell us a little bit about that about that
onboarding, product application process. So I will say that tech Elevators. Onboarding
process or application process is pretty um, I wouldn't say grueling, but it
definitely takes a little bit of time. They definitely take the time to weed
out people who are really committed and want to do it. So UM,
the initial process was filling out an application, and after that application was just
a small like aptitude tests maybe like ten question um, just to see if
you have the aptitude to potentially be able to get in the program. And
then once you pass that aptitude test, UM, there's a little bit more
an extensive application process in that you know, they kind of give you a
little insight on what the program will teach based on whatever it is that you're
going into. And then there is a more extensive aptitude test. And I
will say that that aptitude test is it's somewhat difficult. It definitely challenged me
a little bit, but it really tests your I would say personally, it
tests your you know, your visual awareness, a little bit of your math
skills, problem solving, you know, deductive reasoning, you know, how
do you approach you know, certain tasks that you're given and how do you
come to the solution. Um. They're really good at kind of like you
know, putting that in kind of like a quiz format, and then you
know, after that, that's when they you know, based on that those
scores, that's when they determine whether or not you're admitted into the program.
So that was pretty much my application and on boarding process. Yes, it
was. It was a lot. Yeah, you know, and I feel
like in you know, it's somewhat necessary there there, because those boot camps
are not easy. Um no, they are not. They want to make
sure that people, you know, stick with the program, and especially if
you're if you're receiving a scholarship and things like that, they definitely want to
make sure that it's going to the right person. So yeah, I definitely
understand. Do you have a product or service that you would like to share
with a bit audience or maybe you'd like to support the bit community and do
your part in helping us with stomping the divide. Start by sponsoring one of
our podcasts. Please email us at contact us at blacks and Technology dot net.
So what preparation you stated that they kind of gave you a little bit
of insight as to, you know, what to expect from the bootcamp.
So after that, how did you prepare and if so, how what type
of preparation did you do prior to the bootcamp. I would say, you
know, I did do a little bit of preparation. There are some things
that they kind of suggest for you to do. So when you get admitted
into the program, there's some free work that you're required to do, and
they give you a little bit of time to complete that pre work before the
boot camp starts, which you do have to complete that freework in order to
be able to officially start going into the program. So the pre work pretty
much just covers like the foundation of coding, like mostly front end so like
CSS, HTMLU, a little bit of JavaScript, not a whole bunch,
and basically just helping you to kind of get your feet wet a little bit
and getting you prepared for kind of like the rigorous, the more rigorous and
fast pace learning that you're getting ready to go into. So they definitely give
you that pre work to just kind of prepare you for what's next. So
that's pretty much how I prepared. And I will say that some of the
things that I wish that I would have done earlier on was you know,
whatever, you know, topics or things that I was learning in the pre
work that I really struggled with. I wish that I would have, you
know, taken the time out to really do my own self study and really
deep dive into some of those topics, just so I could have a little
bit more you know, understanding foundation or maybe what it was that I was
like, what it was that I wasn't piecing together, or you know,
what concepts I wasn't grasping very well. Because I will say that take elevators
Pace, like I'm sure any other like guided bloot Camp, boot camp space
is it is essentially there, They're gonna pretty much teach you a topic and
review it and then move on to the next topic. Right Because it's not
a two year program, it's not a four year program, so you don't
have the kind of like luxury of having a whole lot of time to review
things and look over things and take your time with learning concepts. You pretty
much have to, you know, take the time to do your own research,
your own studying, so that when it gets down to kind of seeing
if you have that knowledge or if you're able to do some of the tasks
that they're asking you to do, you kind of are you set yourself up
better for success by you know, kind of doing that self study. So
that's one thing I wish I would have done, and one thing that I
do highly suggest if you are going to a boot camp and they're giving you
concepts and work prior to that and you are just still like, I'm still
not quite getting it, you know, go to YouTube, go to Google.
Google is every software engineer's best friend. I feel like at this point,
um, you know, because a lot of people have already you know,
solved, you know, solved whatever it is that you're looking at,
So doesn't hurt to you know, kind of see what solution they've come up
with and figure out how they got there. So yeah, I would those
are definitely some of the things that you know, I did or I wish
I would have done during my time preparing for the boot camp. Yeah,
it was a great point. I think, um that it also prepares you
for how you know your career and tech are going to be because a lot
of times that's what you're you're doing. And so like, you know,
a lot of self studying because you know, tech is const changing, its
constantly moving, so you constantly have to make sure that you're you know,
on top of the latest, you know whatever, whatever technology it may be
in your space. You kind of have to stay on top of that.
So you're it's a continuous learning journey. Um. And you know the other
part is that that you made a good point about is you know, YouTube
and Google like because and there I think people tend to get I know,
people tend to get intimidated, especially when they meet someone and you know,
and there at their job who seems like they're just a genius like person.
And what they don't understand, or they may not know, is that that
person is using Google and YouTube as well. Absolutely, and the difference usually
it's just experience, right, Like they just have more experience at finding like
it's solving their own problems, right They've had so many airs and bugs and
had to work through that. They start to gain all that knowledge from from
all their failures, and now they seem like this, you know a person
who's you know, came out of the wound coding, when that's not the
case at all. They just they know how to use Google, they know
how to search, stack overflow, you know, things like that. And
so I've seen a lot of you know, especially when I wasn't a senior
engineer. I've seen a lot of senior engineers just use Google like and say,
I don't know, I don't know, look it up. Oh,
this is how you do it. Okay. So, you know, for
for anyone that's listening, if you're you know, thinking about getting the software
engineering or any type of engineering and tech and you know you're kind of apprehensive
about it, just understand that this is a continuous learning journey. You're gonna
start at the bottom and you're gonna work your way up, and you're you
know, the same people that you say at the top, they were once
doing everything that you were doing. So it's no shame at all. Absolutely
absolutely, I will say, um to piggyback off of that, I've heard
a lot of senior engineers say that you're never gonna come a point, come
to a point in your career where you say, okay, I know everything,
because tech is constantly evolving. Um. You know, the space,
especially within software engineering, is constantly evolving, and so you're constantly going to
be you know, once you feel like you've kind of had something nailed down,
they're probably going to create or you know, um change something else.
Or uh, create a whole entire you know, coding language, and that's
going to be more efficient. And you know, there are things that you're
going to continue to learn. So if you feel now at the beginning that
you know, oh man, I don't feel like I haven't yet, Like
trust me, there are people who've been in the game for decades and are
still like, hey, I don't all the way get it either. So
you know, just a word of encouragement for people. It's conflantly going to
be a learning it's conflantly going to be a learning curve. But I will
say like the experience and the journey along the way is definitely rewarding. Yeah,
people, I think people have to understand or need to understand that less
than sixty years ago, like we were we were sending men to the moon
powered by computers that were not even as powerful as calculators that we have now.
Yeah, Like that's how far and how much tech has changed just in
that time span, right, Like that's not a long time, sixty years
and you know, comparison to how long everything else has been around, it's
nothing. It's like a blink of an eye. And so you know,
people who think that these people, you know, people know everything like that's
not, that's not. The things change way too often. There's huge advancements
in tech all the time, and so uh, you're you're constantly going to
be on that journey where you gotta you know. And there's even times where
when you know, for me, for example, I get involved in a
certain technology for instance, uh, and I start reading and research it,
read reading and researching it, and I feel like I gotta go, Oh,
I gotta go back to the beginning. I gotta basics because I forgot
something, you know, in this. So I'll go back and pick up
up a book that I've read, probably you know, several times before,
just to understand like the base concept like oh okay, that's how okay,
now you know everything kind of fits. So there's there's that as well.
So you're constantly going to be doing this dance as long as you you know,
you have a career in tech and it's okay, every everyone does.
Yeah, what's up everyone? We hope that you're enjoying this episode of the
Blacks and Technology BIT tech Talk podcasts. Do you or someone you know have
a dope story that they want to share with our Bit audience, Blocks and
Technology is seeking guests to be on our podcast. We're looking to highlight the
journeys and experiences of black women and men in the tech industry. So if
you know of someone, send them our way, shoot us an email to
contact us a Blacks and Technology dot net, or click on the link in
the show notes and fill out our form. We're looking to hear from you.
So look, you know, sticking with you know, the tech Elevator
topic, what was what was your experience like, what were some of your
your challenges and how did you overcome some of those challenges. Tell us a
little bit about that. So I was a part of m tech elevators first
part time remote cohort. It was a thirty two week cohort. Normally their
remote cohorts or their full time cohorts are about thirteen to fourteen weeks, I
believe, so it's a very short amount of time. So the part time
programs just allows you to be able to steal you know, work, do
your nine to five, and then continue to learn software engineering on Saturday morning.
So pretty much my experience. Definitely, I think people I know it's
like a running theme within the software engineering space where there's kind of like the
the motivation there's like the motivation bar, and so you start off pretty optimistic.
You go in saying, yeah, like I'm excited, you know,
I'm getting ready to learn about this new thing. And then you start learning
all these new concepts that you had never heard before, processes that you've never
done before, and then you start, you know, your your your confidence
starts going down and you're like, oh, this is getting a little hard,
but I guess I'm trucking along. And then you kind of get into
like the valley of despair where you're almost like, oh, this is too
hard, Like we learned about this thing yesterday and I still don't understand it.
There are concepts from like weeks ago that I'm still struggling with, like
I don't even know if I can can do this. And then, slowly
but surely, like once you once you kind of get past that that valley,
slowly but surely, you'll start like once you start practicing and creating like
your own projects and learning more concepts that kind of piece the puzzle together a
little bit, and you start saying, Okay, I don't know everything,
but I'm starting to learn a little bit more than I did, you know,
a day ago, a week ago, a month ago, and you
slowly start building your confidence back up and you start saying, okay, like
I'm actually under standing this and I'm getting that. And I will say like
that along with a lot of the other classmates that I had within my cohort,
that was pretty much our experience, Like you're so surprised, like the
first week, you have no idea, like what get is? You have
no idea what get hubbies? You have no idea, like you know how
to how to create like a class and Java, And then all of a
sudden, like you get to you know, the final a couple of weeks
and you're building like full stack applications and websites and you're just amazed that all
the progress that you've gone through. But I will say, like, it's
definitely so fulfilling when you get to the end, But there are tons of
challenges along the way that I definitely experienced. Yeah, a couple of things
from what you said there. I've been reading, uh several books around learning
UM techniques and uh one it's called Deep Work about boy Cal Newport, and
there's another one by it's called So Good they Can't Ignore You. Two books
by cal Newport. He's he's a really good author, and he always talks
about this initial like when whenever you're you're really really trying to learn something deeply
learn something, this initial shock that you have because you don't get it right
and how normal that is. But it usually, you know, throws people
for a loop. And because it's it's i would say painful from the standpoint
of, um, you know people, you know, if you feel like
you're not getting something, you're just like, oh, I'm not getting this,
and it's painful in that in that respect, right, Um, people
tend to, you know, kind of run away from it. And that
he talks about if you get over that initial shock over of it, right,
Like, if you start in this kind of habit of like going deep
into learning. So for instance, you might start setting up a routine where
you say, I'm going to spend thirty minutes you know, in deep you
know, learning, right, uh, And maybe the first the first week
or so, it's going to seem grueling because you're you're you're you want to
run away from it because everything seems foreign, you don't seem like you're grasping
it. Um and becomes a painful exercise. And then once you get beyond,
if you can survive like that first week, right or maybe that first
couple of weeks and stick to it, then it's gonna you want to make
leaps and bounds as far as you know, being able to engage in this
deep learning and exercises in this deep focus, because then it's not going to
feel as daunting, it's not going to feel us hainful. So there's definitely
that you know that aspect to it, and those two books have really teaches
you a lot about how to get into this mode of deep learning and focus
and you know, kind of getting over that that hump. The second thing
you were talking about is something that I don't want to take full credit for.
But um, I remember back in twenty nineteen, and I'm pretty sure
COVID had a lot to do with this as well. But I met with
somebody from tech elevator, Rita, you know Rita, Yes, I met
would reader. This is the first time I had she. I think she
reached out to me to learn more about bit and to see how you know,
there can you know, not only get some ideas from me, but
figure out like how maybe we can partner. And so we met at a
Starbucks I think I'm gonna say, for coffee like one morning, and she
was telling me more about the program, right, you know, she was
telling me how much your cost and the time frame of the program. And
I told her straight up, yeah, if you're trying to get more black
people or more minorities into your program, that right there is not going to
work because you know, you know, unfortunately we some of us don't have
the means to just up and quit a job and spend you know, the
next fourteen, you know, three months or so doing this full time.
And that's what I said. I was like, that's you know, some
of us are the brand winners. We don't have that generational wealth, not
all of us, and that requires us to have a nine to five.
And if you're trying to get more you know, black people, more minorities
into this program, it's going to take some adjustments. You're going to have
to do something in order to accommodate people's time. Like that's you know,
some people have to work first shift, some people have to work second shift,
Like there has to be some type of part time option, and at
that time they didn't have that. It was strictly four time. And then
then the second thing was around cost, right, Like I was just like,
that's just that's too expensive. Yes, that's expensive, you know,
like that's you know, like we're unfortunately and we don't have that head start
like you know people from other cultures and other races right like that. That's
just the reality of it. And so there needs to be either or cost
effective solution or you know, there needs to be some more partnerships that you
know, kind of take away that cost for for people if you're trying to
you know. So I'm glad that you know, and I'm not saying again
it could be a lot of it is I know some parts of it.
It's definitely COVID related because that force people, businesses, organizations to kind of
switch up things and you know, work remotely and you know, go down
a part time and things like that. But I'm glad we had that conversation.
And then the results of it are you know, them changing their curriculum
around to accommodate more people. So that absolutely, I'm I'm appreciative for you
putting that bug in her ear because if I if you had put that bug
in their ear, I possibly wouldn't have even have had this experience, because
both of those things were big reasons why a lot of the boot camps that
I had initially applied to just didn't work, and either conflicted with my work
schedule and that you know, I don't have the means to take off you
know, three months and not work and not essentially to be able to learn
something, and with the possibility that I might have to go a couple of
more months, you know, searching for a new software and searching for a
new job within software engineering. And then I like obviously the cost, you
know, especially since I went to a four year institution and gotta master certification
in school counseling because I thought I wasn't going to be a school counselor.
But that's a whole nother, a whole nother, a whole another journey in
and of itself, um, and and realizing like, hey, you know,
I don't have you know, the I don't think I have the resources
to take out any more loans than I've already taken out right now. So
any type of you know, help or assistance that I could get, you
know, I was all for so I'm so appreciative, um of Rita,
you know, because I know she really advocated for me, um to be
able to you know, get the scholarship because she she even saw like the
potential that I had and being able to go through the course. And so
UM, appreciative of you and appreciative of Rita. If you're listening to this,
Riata, thank you so much. That's that's cool. Rita's a cool
person. She was at at bet con her end. Uh. I can't
even remember his name. He's gonna she's gonna kill me. Um. But
the founder of tech Elevator was there, Yes, Anthony Okay, yeah,
yeah yeah, and we kicked it as well, so it was it was
real cool. UM. So I'm glad out all worked out right, absolutely,
But you know what to the other part of that is something that you
know, you touched on and I think it's really important, is you she
advocated for you, right, and you know that's something that we also need.
We need advocates, we need allies. But the other part is just
an opportunity. Like people think that, you know when when they say,
um, when they talk about you know, diversity and inclusion, the first
thing they want to go go to the kind of run two things. Oh
you're lauring the bar. It's like, now we're not asking you to laura
anything. We just want the opportunity absolutely, And so once you give us
an opportunity, advocate for us and you know we're we're able to take it
home. So you're you're now working as an engineer your internet. Tell us
a little bit about about that. Had our opportunity come about? UM,
so, I mean LinkedIn was really what UM kind of exposed me to Interrupt
today. UM interesting Lee Enough had a full stack immersive training program UM where
they take a certain amount of candidates and they'll essentially train you on the stack
that they're you know, third party company there that they're collaborating with. You
know, they want like they want entry level you know, UM engineers,
but you know, maybe they don't have like the time or the resources to
be able to train them on all of the you know, stacks that they're
looking for. And so Interrupt had an opportunity where you know, they're picking
candidates to essentially be a part of UM that immersive UM with the with the
goal of being able to transition us into UM. A spot over at CBS
Health as a software engineer. So UM, that's pretty much what I'm doing
right now along with nineteen other people, where kind of learning UM a little
bit of the full stack JAVA UM that CBS Health pretty primarily like works with
UM with the goal that at the end of the immersive the immersive training program
is about three months, so we're pretty much take the three months to kind
of learn about UM, what they're working with and kind of doing projects and
kind of you know, learning and growing with each other along the way with
the hopes of kind of transitioning into a role over at CBS Health. So
UM, a lot of what we're doing is pretty much learning learning learning learning,
And so how how does that compared to you know, what you were
doing at TECH. I know, you know, you're not starting from the
you know, from the bottom or anything like that, but you know,
kind of you know, compare contrast a little bit between that and Tech Elevator.
I would say it was it's very similar in that UM they're very accommodating
to people who may have had, like their own, like a lot of
experience within UM within software engineering, or people who may have had little to
none. But I think the goal for Interact, which I really love,
is they want to give the opportunity for UM minorities, especially people of color,
especially black folk, because I see a lot of us in there in
there, and I'm so happy they're they're all about giving us the opportunity to
be able to um UM have that role in the opportunity for companies like CBS.
And I know you mentioned opportunity, you know, not too long ago,
and Interact is really, you know, passionate about giving us an opportunity.
And so I would definitely say that they're similar in that regard to tech
Elevator, but I would definitely say the pacing is a lot quicker than tech
Elevator. I kind of got a little you know, I got got got
some luxury on that. You know, I had thirty two weeks, whereas
this is thirteen weeks. So it's a very short condensed process UM. And
it's it's definitely for UM. We're kind of looking for that UM that role
essentially, so we're kind of building our knowledge up to potentially kind of move
on into like a full time role UM over at CBS. So UM that's
a little bit different, and that like there's actually you know a job opportunity
that that is really lined up for us at the end. Um, So
there's a lot more you know, motivation to kind of do very well and
to learn as much as I can and UM, really support one another.
Um. And because I will say at interapts specifically, UM that UM,
the cohort that I'm a part of, we're really big on you know,
supporting each other. And not that that elevator didn't do that, but it's
it's nice to see people that look like me, that come from the same
backgrounds as me, be able to say, hey, we're all in the
same boat. Even if all of us don't get a job opportunity here,
let's all still continue to support each other and help each other so that whatever
opportunity that we end up getting, you know, everybody ends up winning and
everybody ends up eating, you know. So I love that aspect and that
you know, Um, there's there's that representation there, there's that support there,
and there's that relatability there, Like I don't have to feel like I'm
colde switching or you know that I have to kind of put on this like
professional hat for you know, eight hours of the day, Like I can
be myself. You know, I can you know, talk how I talk.
You know, you know, we we just talked about like, uh
the other day, like you know, somebody it's off topic, but somebody
talked about like what we have for lunch, and you know, somebody says
spaghetti, and then everybody kind of like had that growing dread of like if
you know, you grew up in a household where you didn't have a whole
lot of money to be able to eat good every day, you were eating
spaghetti, you know, threefold top four or five, six days of the
week. So we were just kind of relating on that. And it's it's
those small things you wouldn't think like like you think like, oh, you
know, it's just you know, it's something that you you know, could
talk about. But I've been in spaces where I talk about that and people
just stare at me like why that because they just don't understand, like they
can't unrelate culturally to what that means of represents for us. So you know,
it's it's always refreshing to be in those spaces. And I'm definitely enjoying
the journey so far. I definitely know what you mean. And sometimes spaghetti
would just butter not even throwing that out there too. But it's funny because
a friend of mine, uh this was probably back in twoy ten when bitt
was first getting started, and we were discussing like kind of the same thing,
and one of the things he brought up and this. And by the
way, this guy is exceptionally smart, probably one of the smartest people I've
ever met. He's an ex marine, and he just has this regiment about
himself when when when it comes to learning, So he so and it's not
just tech stuff. It's like our game theory. It's all types of stuff.
So economics, it's psychology. So what he does is, you know,
he's like, oh, well, I want to know about this topic.
Let's just say economics. I'm gonna read whoever are the top you know
economics people in the world. I'm going to read their book, and then
I'm gonna read three or four other books. Right, That's that's how he
goes at things. Um, and so he real instrumental. And I guess
me finding kind of like that, you know, like that what's that kind
of finding my footing And as far as like you know, in this space,
and when I say in this space, not just tech, but you
know, helping black people in this space, right being in having that knowledge
and being able to like help build community. And one of the things that
he said was, you know, it's not even going to these uh these
I think we were talking about um tech conferences at the time. He's like,
it's not about you know, being able to talk tech, he said,
I can talk tech on anybody, you know, and going into some
of these conferences. It's the other stuff like what if I want to talk
about and not saying that, you know, there are not other people that
can talk about, you know, the latest Rutang album or the latest this
order. But you know, there's a certain in a relationship that you have
with people in your community. And like you were talking about about the spaghetti,
Like if you brought that up somewhere else, people would be like,
let's what's what's what big deal about spaghetti? You know, And so it's
those things, those small that within that community, within that you know,
being that that those commonalities that you have that at that time were definitely missing
from tech and back in twenty two thousand and nine, twenty ten, you
know, they're definitely there was not this awareness that around black people in technology,
you didn't have these all these various programs. You had a few,
but not not as much as many as you have now. Uh, And
you definitely didn't have this community, right, so that part was missing.
So going to the you know, these tech conferences, you're definitely not going
to get that. So it's good to hear, especially you know, you're
being part of this cohort that you're surrounded by people you know who look like
you, walk like you, talk like you. You know, this community
where you have all these commonalities and you know, similar backgrounds and things like
that, and you're able to have that comfort, uh and being that that
safe space so that it actually when you're when you're not stressed out about those
things, it really helps your learning absolutely. So that's that's great to hear.
UM. So tell us a little bit about like, um, you're
you're you're in this cohort, like what what are they, what type of
what's the curriculum or what you know, kind of like a day to day
what is that like? Yeah, so pretty much how our day is structured
is um the majority of the time that we're kind of um on on online
with you one another is mostly learning. So we pretty much have our morning
at afternoon split into like a morning lecture an afternoon lecture where we kind of
talk about things that we learned the day prior and then we bring up new
topics that we're getting ready to learn. So we just kicked off yesterday,
so we're kind of building up a little bit, so I know pretty much
we're kind of getting into GET and we're kind of getting into like AHML and
CSS, so we're kind of getting our feet wet a little bit. But
I've done the boot camp thing before, and I know, like this is
just like the start of the snowball. It's definitely gonna snowball fast. But
I will say while we do have kind of like our morning lecture, our
study hall on our afternoon lecture, there are plenty of times for breaks,
and I do appreciate that they're developing a culture where they they encourage us to
kind of take that time away from the screen, because burnout is so real
in tech. Even if you're not even doing like a a tech focused job.
Within tech, it is very easy to kind of get into the cycle
of your clock in at nine, or you or if you mean, if
you you get lucky and you get a flexible schedule, kind of you clock
in whenever you want to clock in. You start doing your work on the
screen, and you kind of get lost in that for hours and hours and
hours, and you don't even take the time to take a step back to
you know, eat, to kind of you know, go outside to get
some fresh air, to relax. And they really do promote that, like
us getting those breaks, like, you know, every hour, even if
it's just you know, going and stretching or getting like a cup of water
or just taking a quick walk, Like those things make such a big difference
because they're kind of preparing us for kind of that work where I know,
at some point we might get a little bit more, they might let us
give us a little bit more autonomy with our work, and we really need
to kind of have that um kind of have that structure in that the amount
of time that you have for work, you need to dedicate that time for
rest because you're not gonna do any good when you're on em. You definitely
need to take the time to refill yourself, you know, kind of get
back to doing kind of like that work life balance, Like they really you
know, kind of encourage that, and that's pretty much what I love.
But a lot of what we're doing right now is pretty much kind of like
soaking, Like we're pretty much spunge is at this point. You know,
they're giving us every opportunity that they can within that a our time span for
us to learn and um kind of test our knowledge and be able to work
with one another and share knowledge amongst each other. So it's been great so
far, and I'm glad that tech is matured in that way. There is
a there is a documentary that you can find on your tube and it's about
um man. It's about one of the earlier browsers. Uh. And now
I can't even think of the name of it. Um. But you they
have this deadline right where they're they're losing. It's about Netscape, the Netscape
browser, UM, and they're starting to lose market share, uh to I
think probably like Internet Explorer at the time, right uh An Internet Explorer first
came out, Microsoft started started dominating the browsers, wars and everything like that.
Netscape is trying to hold its footing um. And so you see these
engineers like you know, of course this was you know, back in the
nineteen nineties and things like that. So, uh, as far as like
software development goes and like the process of doing it, like it's it's definitely
different than they didn't have get you know and stuff like that back then,
so they didn't have that luxury they were so but you you'll see in that
documentary like these these developers are like spending like the whole entire night and in
the office, right Like that's and and and I've heard stories, you know
of software developers working on weekends, working through the night and things like that.
And so I'm glad that there's like this maturity in this in this space,
in this industry where they really value mental health, work work life balance.
Uh, because you can't you can't work people or the death and then
expect them to work at you know, their optimal level. Like that's just
not just not how we're wiring as humans. Like that's right, every every
you know, all muscles get tired, including the brain. Right. So
so it's good to hear that they are you know, kind of exposing you
to to that early because I think a lot of organizations are now you know,
catching onto that. They're like, hey, we got to have a
because people are demanding, especially with covid uh nowadays and people being able to
work from home and are having like kind of like that hybrid situation of just
like, yeah, I'm not going to be working thirteen hour days and you
know, I can go to this company and make the same amount of money
and they you know, I get five weeks of vacation and I can take
a day off here and there. They're not gonna yell at me or anything
like that. Like nobody wants to go through that anymore. Those days are
gone, hopefully, and so it's good days. It's good that that that
they're exposing your all to that right now. Yeah, Yeah, it's it's
really nice to it's really nice to be able to kind of see where tech
kind of see where tech has how far tech has come, and how far
the culture of tech has come. And I'm really hopeful that, um that
as we keep progressing that you know, tech will continue to become better and
better in terms of culture and you know, how to nurture like, you
know, the minds of the people that I'm working within it, because it
is not an easy job, like I know, especially like with a lot
of social media, like a lot of people sometimes have painted it like,
oh, yeah, I log in and you know, I work for two
hours, and you know, I log off and I get to go,
you know, vacationing for days and days and days and don't have to do
a whole lot of work. And you get in it and you start realizing
like, no, I mean, if you have some code that you have
to finish, or there are some books that you have to sort out and
you can't figure out what the problem is, sometimes you will go hours and
days just trying to figure out how to solve this one issue. And so
I'm appreciative that they kind of are giving us a little bit of wiggle room
to be able to kind of work out those issues without kind of dictating or
forcing us to, you know, constantly work around the clock because it's impossible.
And I feel like that's where education was for me, Like I felt
like we were getting more and more, we were having to do more and
more work outside of the clock, and it just didn't feel very fulfilling and
there wasn't a culture for educators. And I'm hoping that it's getting a little
better. I've only been one year out of the game, but I'm hoping
that it's gotten at least a little better where they're at least starting to recognize
that, you know, nobody is able to work twenty four hours, seven
days a week. It is just literally impossible, Like our bodies are not
formulated for that, Like we're not created to work twenty four to seven And
so yeah, I'm hoping that you know, people will look at tech in
other different spaces outside of tech and realize like, hey, we can incorporate
this not only in the tech space, but in other spaces. So I
agree, yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't envy teachers at all.
I don't. My wife volunteers UM at my son's school, UM,
and she tells me about some of the things that you know, and of
course, you know this this is elementary school and you're dealing with younkers kids
and things like that, and but just the amount of stuff that they they
have to do outside of it, and then you know, um, now
nowadays they they have you know, parents by a bulk of because I remember
when I went to school and I'm you know, like he's showing my age
here and tell my but you know, you you needed the real basic stuff
right right, Like a couple of councils and things like that, and I
didn't need to bring glue, and I didn't need to bring you know,
colored paper, and they schools had all that stuff, right, But nowadays
they they're sitting and higher list yeah right right right, um, And and
I've heard of teachers having to come out of their own pockets for f and
so yeah, and so I don't envy teachers as far as like the workload,
as far as things like that, and not only that, but they're
so so underpaid. Yes, I wish that it would, you know,
I wish there was something would happen. I don't know how would happened,
but maybe you know, take some of that lottery money and just right and
just kind of uh divert it to you know, paying teachers, man,
because I'm pretty sure that affects how teachers teach. I'm pretty sure that affects
how they want to work and and everything, like if you if I'm coming
into class, you know, and and I'm not saying all kids are like
this, but kids, you know, you have to pay for your own
supplies, you have to work later hours. You know, you got kids
acting food acting a food good and I'm only getting forty fifty thousand a year.
Nah, I'd rather rather do something else. And I'm pretty sure and
now not that it's all about money. I know there's a lot of teachers
out there that you know, do it for the love of teaching, but
that's still a very high bar for people to overcome, right, So I
hope they figured this out one day. I mean, we were giving fifty
sixty million dollars to Baseball and bat and hey, I'm all about get your
money. I'm not saying don't get your money. But at the same time,
I mean they're teaching, They're teaching our kids, so something's got to
give, right eventually, absolutely, Yeah, So what are some of your
goals? Um, you know, next, next few years, Yeah,
next, for years. UM. I'm hoping that once I get settled into
a role as a software engineer. UM, I really do hope to give
back to, you know, my community. I really had a huge,
you know, a strong tie with the the youth that I worked with in
Coundla Zoo and in Grand Rapids, and I really want to be able to
give back to not only those communities, but like, you know, my
hometown in Detroit because I if I would have been exposed to seeing more black
women UM in this space when I was younger, I think about the possibilities
of HUME. Would I have taken that route a lot sooner if I had
just seen more people that looked like me? And so I want to be
able to UM, you know, help expose more youth, especially like little
black girls, and and letting them know, like, you know, you
have the capability to be able to be successful in this field. So my
hope and my goal is to kind of get back into that nonprofit space a
little bit. I want to be able to kind of develop my own nonprofit
or maybe collaborate with other nonprofits in the area to where we provide like free
software engineering courses or free exposure to software engineering engineering or software engineers to UM
schools in like UM at risk areas or in places where you know, they
don't have the means to be able to get that exposure you know, on
their own. And so that's pretty much, you know, my goal that
I hope to to That's pretty much my goal for the next five years.
So hey, if you're listening, then you know you got any ideas or
you want to kind of get on that ballpark with me. I would love
to have some people, you know, get on the bandwagon with me.
You know, I'm not superwoman, even though I would like to say that
I am. UM. I definitely would love to have a team that has
like that same goal and want that has that same mindset about UM creating like
that next generation of black engineers. Because I've always said, like, if
you want your company, if you want the tech space to grow, um,
you have to be innovative. And I believe innovation comes with diversity.
And if you are not diverse, you were, You're constant, you will
never be challenged to think outside the box. You know, when you when
you have a diverse group of people, you're gonna constantly always be getting new
ideas, new ways of thinking. You know, um, how somebody does
you know this in one area might be completely different than how they do it
in another area. And we see it all the time, um in many
other different spaces. And so I want to be able to help bring more
of that diversity into the space so that we can really see like like tech
sore, Like I really feel like we should be living like um um.
What is that one show called UH The jetsons. I really feel like that's
how we should be living. We should you know, I feel like we
should have discovered living in space and we should have like everybody should have,
you know, flying cars, and you know, we should be living in
like a futuristic era. But I do think one of the big setbacks is
that the tech space really has not UM has not like embraced bringing in more
diversity into the space. And so if I can like push the needle a
little bit more towards that, you know, I'd love to do that.
So, yeah, that's like my ultimate goal or dream for the next couple
of years. And you know, PLU a plug here for you know,
there's BIT foundation, so there's always opportunities for uh, you know, for
helping out there. But I think there's a chapter in Detroit, a BIT
chapter in Detroit UM as well, UM, and you know, there's always
possibilities to starting one and grand grand rapids as well. But I do agree
with your statement about helping at risk youth because one of the things that ends
up happening in this space, UM is that we end up grabbing the low
hanging fruit, which is a lot of times, you know, kids are
you know, young adults that are that have maybe you know, maybe a
little itch for tech already, right Like, they're not that so far removed
from it that they're you know, it immediately turns them off from they're here.
They're just like, oh okay, yeah, I've looked at that.
Right. So it's those people that you know, uh that organizations like ours
that normally grab but being able to the the real I think impact is going
to be made when we really start getting those at at at risk youth and
bringing them into the fold, uh and and growing that talent as well.
So I think like that's I don't I know that there are some there are
some organizations out there that have tapped into it a little bit, but I
still think I mean because if you look at you know, some communities like
this, there's a lot of at risk used out there that if they just
had something else to focus on, you know, they can make an impact,
They can make a career and and tech and so it's always been about
well, how do you go about reaching not only reaching out to them,
but but bringing them in and keeping them there? Right Like that's going to
be a key thing too. Uh So, yeah, I mean, you
know, if you have some ideas about it and you can bring some of
those ideas to bet and want to want to get something started with the chapter
near you, that that would be great. Absolutely, that sounds awesome.
Um, last thing, are you going to make it or be able to
make it to bitcoin? You know, we're in Nashville this year, and
yes, I am definitely gonna make it to bitcom this year. I loved
it last year when we were in Orlando. I loved the sun, I
loved connected I did. I was there there. I think I might have
seen you in passing. I know it was. It was a lot going
on and there was so many different like speakers and sessions that I really wanted
to go to. So I was jetting all over the place, and I
know that I might have seen you on the stage a couple of times,
but I don't think I got the chance to formally introduce myself because I know
when I saw Rita at the check in, she was like, you gotta
go meet Greg, you gotta go see Anthony, and I was like,
yes, and then never got the opportune to be It was my first tech
conference, so you know, I think I was a little bit overwhelmed by
everything and I just wanted to do everything and so yes, so hopefully we
can meet this ye yeah, when you see me, just come up to
me. I'm yeah, I'm super approachable, like you know, so,
uh yeah, that would be that would be fantastic. I didn't even know
you were there. That's so that's awesome too. Yes, excellent, excellent.
Okay, so before we get out of here, UM, you know,
how can people, you know, if they want to learn more about
your journey, or even if they want to contact you for you know,
to hear more about your journey, maybe they want to get you on another
podcast like this one, how can they get in contact with you? So
I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, So if you look up my name Dshaye d
E s h E what um, you feel free to send me a connect
or um, just a quick personal note and I'll be happy to get with
you. UM. I should probably do a lot more, um kind of
a journaling my experience. So I'm trying to kind of see if I can
do a little something on TikTok um, so kind of kind of you know,
documenting my journey of on interrupt. Since I didn't get the opportunity to
do it on tech Elevator, so you can follow me on TikTok at woods
d sche Um, so I'll be on there too, And hopefully if you
have any questions on what my journey was like in tech Elevator or what it's
like at Interact, you know, I'm more than happy to be able to
share my experience or kind of give you all some insight on you know,
kind of what my you know, experience was like transitioning from you know,
education into tech. So, yeah, it was a pleasure having you on
a podcast which you wish you nothing but the best. Hopefully we get to
meet at at Big Corn this year. Yes, we will meet at Big
com So good luck with everything. Good luck. We're interapt and and TVs
uh and I hope to hear from you soon. All right, thank you
so much, great, I appreciate it. Take care of you. Two
Blacks and Technology Wi Wack, Blacks and Technology, Blacks and Technology, White
wax and Technology, Blas and Technology, White Wax and Technology,