The opinions expressed by Chayo Busquets are supported by his extensive experience as a family
therapist and in the previous analysis of the cases presented here welcome. This is
Chayo with you. In jewels. We begin very good afternoon to everyone as
I am Chayo Busquets, this Chayo with you and we are ready to start
today' s program. We' re going to have a program that I
' ve already started announcing to you since last week and I already have it
on social media today. I put them there, then, that we'
re going to have this program and I' m especially happy to have this
program on a holiday, because it' s going to allow these women who
are either pregnant or wanting to get pregnant, or they' ve just given
birth or not so recently, but they just don' t feel good.
Today we' re going to talk a little bit about it and that they
can be accompanied with their family, with their partner, so that they can
get acquainted with everything we' re going to talk about today. Because,
in fact, many times in pregnancy or postpartum delivery, there are many symptoms,
from physical to emotional, that we don' t just know where to
accommodate and that sometimes can even give pity, can give guilt because what happened.
If I wanted to have this beautiful and wonderful creature and now it turns
out that I don' t jump from emotion, what happens to me.
Well, let' s talk about all this. She is with us the
psychologist and doctor in psychology, Tania Villanueva, and I especially thank her for
coming to participate here with us, because she is a survivor of depression and
postpartum anxiety. It sounds to them, they have heard it, it approached
them, or or or at some point in their lives. Well, that
' s what we' re talking about today. So Tania, welcome Hi,
chayo. Thank you very much and thank you for the invitation and this
opportunity. No, thanks to you, and most of all, I appreciate
your sharing. Since I asked him how I' m going to introduce you,
he told me as a survivor of depression and postpartum anxiety, and that
I thank you immensely, because I think he already gives a door along with
the profession that you have and that you do a little bit of that and
here we' re going to talk about it today. What the hell is
depression of anxiety is invented by the chiptile moms who just gave birth and want
attention what a very good question you look at. Usually the term postpartum pressure
is used to encompass as a bunch of as you said symptoms or manifestations of
discomfort in moms who have just had a baby u. These can actually be
because of a hormonal issue. The first two weeks. It' s usually
a matter of hormones. Not where a change is not known eh as drastic
in the whole life of the human being as the one that occurs in pregnancy
and with the hormonal change in the postpartum. So, well, the first
few weeks, there' s an upset there, and that, as you
say, not being Chippy, they don' t cry so much. Not
the first two weeks can be part of this adaptation like our body, not
to that hormonal change, but sometimes that of that sadness, that desire to
cry a lot bad humor. There may also be little desire to do things,
not as if this one felt super tired, that good. Besides,
of course there' s a lot physically, but there' s something in
this tiredness that' s a little different. Not then all of this has
been called postpartum do and depression and can be as a sadness and as a
discouragement, but it can also be anxiety, a constant over- concern about
any issue that has to do with the baby, about hygiene, for example,
at home and around what the child occupies. Anyway, there' s
like a lot of going. You can go for a bunch of ice creams
and say technically they have different names, they' re not different diagnoses,
but they' ve been covered a lot, like in postpartum depression. But
there may be anxiety, there may be an obsessive compulsive disorder in rare cases.
But if there are registered, there' s postpartum psychosis, anyway,
there' s a variety of that there' s being there is and we
' ll talk about it. But you jumped rather. I jumped in with
my question straight to childbirth. No and to this postpartum and depression or postpartum
anxiety a little, so you shared with me since you arrived another little,
because it is what is most familiarly heard, that comes to pass. But
that' s not how it starts. Birth starts by getting you pregnant,
let' s go back to pregnancy and it' s normal and it'
s not normal. When if anyone has to say this thing here that'
s happening, I need to see what' s going on. That'
s also a big question and I also like how you connect not postpartum.
But of course, before there was something and although we know a lot about
postpartum depression, or it is the one that is most commonly talked about when
there is depression, postpartum in pregnancy there were already the first signs of emotional
discomfort, which are generally overlooked. Okay. Then it is expected to say
embraces are more sensitive, not that there is as an easier cry, that
situations are lived as more emotionally intensely. And so, uh, that'
s considered normal. Not then, oh, well, it' s the
hormones. Oh, well, it' s the baby' s emotion.
Oh, well, that' s the way it goes, not that it
' s women and their hormones that we culturally even evaluate quite aha eh,
but if the discomfort, it often starts eh since pregnancy and the way we
can see how this is no longer very normal. This is no longer the
cry of I' m very sensitive. It' s not when, for
example, I start to lose my taste for my activities, uh, not
that I used to get a lot of anxieties all the pleasure, when I
have little energy, when I start to sleep badly, let' s not
talk later. That' s why you' ve already conquered me, of
course, you have to sleep and sleep well. Or we' re back
here in Chayo with you and talking to Dr Tania Villanueva. She is a
doctor in psychology and expert in all these things of pregnancy, postpartum and so
on, and we had started to talk Tania about this as a context of
how suddenly the discomforts begin and when the discomforts are no longer normal discomforts,
because it seems that you are pregnant. And then you have to put up
with everything. Don' t hold it all, because it' s pregnancy.
It doesn' t become the easy answer to be giving him jef and
I would even tell you when you said well, we started with because I
did it saying good before postpartum, there was labor. Let' s go
back. Right now you mentioned these as comments. That' s where they
' re some of the women. It' s women' s hormones.
There is some connection between the premenstrual syndrome that many women suffer and how it
will go in pregnancy. Then you have nothing to do with it, yes
and it' s not like a direct complan relationship. But it has been
seen that those who present as more discomfort in the premonstral phases, premenstrual history,
if they are people who can be as more susceptible in the psychological emotional
part to hormonal changes and then present later this m ok yes, what about
it, with the pregnancy, then there is. Yes, there are physical
and emotional discomforts, either one or the other or both. Or it'
s a rule. It' s not a rule. And something I like
to say a lot every time I talk about this topic, how good to
me if it means a lot to me. But it is how we are
also forgotten that every story and every woman and every pregnancy is also different,
what we live, different. Then we can' t just assume that if
one thing comes up there' s gonna be another. Or what every circumstance
in which a pregnancy occurs moves different things into a woman' s mind,
into her emotions, and into the circumstances that are surrounding also everything that is
happening with her working life, as a couple and so on and, if
well, the most common discomforts of pregnancy, especially when it is the first
case not when she is the first baby to have a woman. Eh what
is usually presented is a lot of worry, there is a lot of anguish
and again there is a normal part where Í m ejaculating you, because
Í m facing something very big for the first time and Í m
nervous, no, but theré s another part where this concern can,
for example, as I told you a long time ago, take away your
sleep, that is, you may start spending all day with a thought that
we can say obsessive, not or it́ s very repetitive, very constant,
that doesń t let you think much about other things or about everything
that can happen no, and theý re usually thoughts that go towards the
negative, not like catastrophic scenarios. Let' s say not that such that
something goes wrong in childbirth, how about that right now something that I'
m doing is wrong for my baby that such that my emotions at the moment
are causing, uh a damage not to my son how much so that I
' m not going to make a good mom, that such that it changes
a lot the relationship with my husband, because already from now on I notice
that things start to be different, that such that they don' t help
me, that such that at work I don' t fuck myself there are
a lot of things and I tell you a part, those concerns are very
valid. But when they already start to do something that they don' t
let you enjoy the rest of the pregnancy, you can' t live it
also from the beauty of this transformation, because we can already start thinking perhaps
to someone who would like to approach a therapeutic environment where he works, what
is all that that is moving him. No, what' s going out
there and the part of the dream I' m going to say again,
because stopping sleeping can be at the end. Above all, it is said
well, pregnant women stop sleeping in a hurry, because the position is already
comfortable. The body such, but there is something that is also the head.
I mean, I' m thinking all the time. I feel like
I' m very active all the time mentally and I can' t figure
out how to turn off that head activity. And that is already another of
these signs. And for the most important reason that we should attend to that
as soon as possible is because also the lack of sleep is a very strong
factor in presenting later also depression and postpartum anxiety ok is that, like everything,
we are discovering how one thing is related to another in our history process.
We' re going back with more of this and we' re also
going to talk back from nothing else. We' re worried. There'
s a reality if things could happen for this little guy and you have to
take precautions. I say one that comes to mind a lot is often folic
acid, for example, we' re not going to talk about that too.
You' re properly taking care of everything you have to attend to,
what we have to be with on this good Earrings. With regard to the
growth and development of the baby, yes, we need to have adequate,
balanced feeding. Now there is also a topic with this new forms of feeding,
but well, proteins, for example, in pregnancy you need a lot
of good fat protein consumption. Not that also helps the development of the baby
' s brain. Em we need to go periodically to doctor' s consultations
and when there are, for example, contractions ahead of time. Some are
normal, but also depending on the intensity and frequency n degrees if there were
bleeding. And all these things are and indicators that we have to always keep
in mind, not when the baby is already moving and we feel it good,
when we already feel it, because they can move from more or less
soon, but when we can already feel it being no longer super pending every
second, but if you have a normal rhythm of usually moving a little bit
in the evenings, then be aware that this continues to happen to the extent
that it has happened for us previously and when it has not, then,
yes, it is important to call the specialist gynecologist asnos orienta you coordinate a
talk group of this. Yeah, and I coordinate a circle of moms,
mom circles, Tuesdays is a day a week. We do it in a
virtual way and the idea is that women who are pregnant or in the postpartum
period can meet with other women who are in these stages as well and talk
about how they are doing, their experience, with these changes, with everything
they are living, how they feel about the family, the couple, friends.
Sometimes they like to hear the cute part. I don' t feel
super happy. I' m so excited. I' m very excited and
that' s a very important part, not in the maternity project, but
there may also be days that I feel so distressed about bad, uh,
I don' t know, uh, a little nervous, worried when there
' s some discomfort. That is very difficult to communicate to anyone, not
even health personnel, for example, gynecologist, gynecologist no. Sometimes they are
very focused on the body part, no, and when a mom tries to
communicate from the emotional part, they don' t always know how to respond
to this. Then women, when they begin to have this, this other
experience that is not expected, because they can feel very alone and very guilty.
Not what' s happening to me, because I feel this. Maybe
there' s something wrong with me, no, and circles help us listen
to other women who can say don' t look. We' ve all
felt that way at some point. That' s how it went for me.
I was able to solve it this way and what I do in the
Group is not only eh, because allowing this contact between them and the support
that they can give themselves if we do not also work relaxation tools, not
strategies with breathing, and also e and make us expectations more real, because
many times part of the discomfort comes from the idealization of motherhood in magic,
the exact magic. So much we can land in our reality and in our
circumstances this new event and e and well, because we go together, not
as walking the path of motherhood, together that becomes much richer, much more
full, with less guilt, with less sense of loneliness. These are precious
experiences. Yes, and above all I' m thinking about whether this is
an ordinary pregnancy and it can generate all those suspicions in our treacherous mind.
Now I don' t even want to think if you had an unwanted pregnancy,
if you had a pregnancy outside the time when your family was waiting for
you, not if your partner didn' t answer the question and you stayed
as a single mother. Let' s do it. How useful it can
be to have an echo in a group like the one you coordinate. I
have the phone here for whatsapp or call in case they' re interested in
this group you' re talking about. Tania is called mom' s circles
and the phone is fifty- six, thirty- seven eight, zero eight,
forty- one fifty- six, thirty- seven, eight, zero
eight, forty- one. I' m going to put it on social
networks too so that everyone has access to the phone and you don' t
lose anything because, besides everything, I have extraordinary news for you. It
' s free. They are groups that meet in a virtual way. You
don' t have a problem with distance. You can do it from your
cell phone, from your computer. The thing that best suits you and Tania
is the one in front. So we' re going to ask you back
to talk to us a little bit more about this subject so you can just
give yourself an animated Tania. I' m pregnant. I' m in
labor I' ve got the best of things I can. They spend those
fifteen days that you told us about at the beginning of the program, where
what may be a mismatch as a result of our body being accommodated and adapting
to the fact that once again we are no more, not two, but
they follow the symptoms and I don' t feel well anymore, no,
no more physically emotionally and I don' t want to even imagine that anxiety
that must give of then not that the creature was going to be the happiest
woman in the world and besides I was going to give myself identity because I
am a mother, no and women or we are mothers to many people yet
or we are nothing. And then it turns out that I don' t
feel that instinctive love, not that they say it exists. So the first
thing is whether or not there is that absolute love for the baby and second,
what happens when a woman starts to feel that way? Look, I
like this question a lot too. There' s no such love is not
instinctive, the love for the baby is not eh, because it came out
of my body. Then I love him forever is, like all human relationships,
something that needs to be built. It' s a very, very
particular relationship that doesn' t look like the others, because, in fact,
how we bond with the idea of that person who' s coming and
who, in fact, is inside of us at the beginning. It'
s, uh, they give special characteristics to this bond. But finally that
' s a link where, at the beginning, the baby doesn' t
have so much chance to express, for example, it' s not then
for the mom to build it for her baby, not to destroy this for
both at the time of breastfeeding, of hugging, of talking to them to
look them in the eyes. All this is forming and many times what can
happen is the frustration of saying woe, for I thought that I was already
going to have it here and that I was going to feel incredible and suddenly
I see it and I don' t even know who is no, who
is this stranger or is unknown. That can be difficult. No e then,
well, there' s no such thing and a little bit of what
I was talking about before I landed expectations and being more in reality, because
it' s a first step to understanding this. We are not going to
build that relationship with our sons, daughters, nothing is going to be given.
Of course, now another thing that is very important and that I also
like to talk about it a lot and remind the moms a lot in the
circles and in all the spaces that I can accept is that, as in
all human relations, all human relationships are built up have eh a diversity of
emotions around and motherhood can generate a lot of ivalence. Motherhood can feel a
lot of love and a lot of closeness and desire, for example, to
take care of and be close to the baby, but at the same time
feel some rejection and some discomfort. They may feel sad because beyond hormonal,
they have changed a lot of things in life. If there were no babies,
well, the change from just being two in a couple and suddenly having
a third is very strong. Routine change everything changes a lot and that can
generate anger sometimes or sadness, and that' s also em It' s
okay to feel it, because no, and the problem can come when we
start judging by having this other part. No, not just feeling love.
And that' s what we' re going to talk about coming back,
because it' s very important how you treat yourself and what you allow and
what not of the others' treatment of You when you' re there totally.
I was asking you Tania, okay, I already peed the postpartum.
I' m in the postpartum, I' ve lived this situation. I
don' t make up, I feel bad and I' m blaming myself
for what we have to do to be more merciful to ourselves and what limits
we would have to put to others when they make comments out of place.
How important is the issue of boundaries. But, well, let' s
start with ourselves. The first is to remember that there will be no equal
maternity. There will be no equal experiences, something that I also think is
very important to keep in mind, not to compare with other moms, with
other things, with the maternity ideals that there are on social networks, that
we find on the Internet, where everything seems to be under control and perfect.
That' s not real. So let' s also land that part
and don' t judge ourselves from there, from the external reference, not
since I' m going to compare myself to us and then I' ll
say oh it' s not that she' s better, Mom, it
' s that she' s better, it' s that she can do
that and I can' t. And that' s a good first step
to becoming more merciful. The other is to understand that this experience of motherhood
well, is a challenge of the greatest that there can be and, as
I told you, each one lives differently and there are many who do not
have an incredibly good time. And that' s fine. Repeat it.
It' s okay with you guys. Not good at motherhood. That'
s a very important thing. Yes, with all the good intentions of the
world, they make them around us to try to encourage us and not to
tell us things they shouldn' t say. Look. There' s a
lot of stuff. A fair one is that sometimes it is the others who
compare us. There can be no women who intend as if the mother who
is not having a good time, and thank or value some things that she
has in her favor. What he does is discredit his experience. Then tell
him don' t be sad. You have everything, you already have your
baby You could be very happy, or I had it very difficult. I
had only one of you. I had six and I washed my hand and
I had no one to help me and I don' t know what.
I' m not everything. All comparisons must be avoided. Please, always
another thing is the thing that people do with very good intention, but since
they don' t know what, another way to help and that is,
to a woman who is having a hard time, you can, you can,
don' t be sad, don' t be angry. So,
when we say this, we' re denying what a person is living that
we want this one of the worst things we can do. So the most
important thing for those around us, if they' re listening to us,
if they know someone so a mom who' s suffering from this start of
motherhood, the best they can do for them to tell her I' m
here with you, you' re not alone and ask her what I can
help you with, how you need me to support you, that' s
what and listen to them without judging, giving advice, without trying to solve
anything. Listen to what they have to say and ask them what you need
to fear how can I help you? Remind them that you love them and
that you are not alone, that you are there for them and well,
for the moms. We find it very difficult to set the limit. Sometimes
not because he who tells us these things, because they are close people and
we know well- intentioned. Then it can be hard to tell someone hurts
me what you tell me, or this doesn' t help me right now.
Please, please don' t tell me this, but we have to
try we also have to practice in the most loving way possible we also say
thank you very much this could help me in such then also give, as
an alternative to the person, thank the intention with which comes his comment and
ask Sometimes we also find it hard to ask for support. She' d
like me not to know that you' re going with me to see a
psychologist, a psychologist to help me, because housework is going beyond me between
the baby and this. Please help me with the dishes today, or help
me pick up my big son at school today so I can get some sleep
sometimes we need to say. We don' t know how to ask,
We don' t know how to ask clearly we lack to go into more
detail with how it is treated when already suspect someone who has postpartum depression that
that actually already merits the diagnosis, because that is already a diagnosis, it
is no longer a series of characteristics that we say to him, it is
a diagnosis. What' s to be done, Tania? It' s
very important to go with a psychologist, psychologist, ideally someone who specializes in
perinatal psychology. Okay, I' ve heard about women I' ve worked
with who psychologists and psychologists don' t have this specialty. Many times they
miss this diagnosis m because there are a number of criteria that do not always
meet. Postpartum depression has many faces and generally in the more general formation of
psychology, since some are not known, but another is left aside. So,
yes, yes, it would be important if you have the possibility that
it was someone with that specialty is the best thing, or someone good,
because you have this experience not working with women in these stages, eh just
there, in interview with specialists, because we can already know if the diagnosis,
in fact, is a depression, some anxiety, because already some disorder
not at this stage or if it is making an emotional crisis what is derived
from the change. But this, this difference, is very difficult to make
for someone who doesn' t have like this, or because it' s
important to make the difference changes. Yes, it is a depression I postulate
that it is an emotional alteration the consequence of such a clear strong experience as
having a child treatment, how you will treat the case depends on how what
we are saying is our diagnosis. No. When there is a diagnosis of
postpartum depression, it is often necessary to strengthen therapy, the therapeutic part with
some pharmacological part. Many times it is necessary are antidepressants, antidepressants, no
yes, anxiety also controls it with antidepressants. This is important and sometimes generates
as a lot of confusion or a lot of fear to say how you are
going to medicate with this type of drugs to a woman who is breastfeeding or
not seeing, living, living, exact adaptation process. But it' s
important that you know, because sometimes it' s also the reason why we
don' t come with a specialist, because it' s the fear how
much they tell me that if I have depression and then they' re either
going to take me away from my baby or they want to intern me,
they' re fantasies, no and fears, or how much so that the
medication they give me has me asleep all day and then I can' t
take care of my baby or how much the medication is bad for my baby
and it' s going to happen to him through my milk. In principle,
I tell you there are medicines that have been tested and are safe for
breastfeeding and that are good. Recently came out the first e, the first
drug that is specially designed for postpr WOW depression, but that works itself amazing.
It' s not going to commercialize yet, but yes, but we
' re on our way. It is completely ignored that this, that this
exists, is sometimes ignored with it knowledge and we ignore it or because you
don' t have the information and the poor woman doesn' t know what
the hell is happening to her. Yeah, Wow, Wow, Oh,
Tania, No, well, yeah, as you can see, all this
information was more than necessary for you to be aware and able to. Above
all, and as I say to you, as a woman, always validate
yourself. Start by validating yourself because you won' t validate the other one.
If you' re not valid, you' re probably already aware of
my pregnant nonsense. Not if you' re saying it yourself, then what
respect the one in front of me will have to say, hey, don
' t wait for me. You are in a temporary situation in which millions
of things are happening in your body beyond realizing that already in itself, but
there are a number of alterations that are very important, that take into consideration,
that validate them and that ask to be respected about this is temporary.
So you have to live with that. The result is something that we want,
because we want, that we want it to work out as best as
possible and that, somehow, makes us enter a next stage of life,
because we are not going to go back to what was before. That'
s for sure, but enter a better stage of life standing and in the
best position. Tania, I think it' s the greatest wish we can
give to a fully pregnant woman. And I' m glad you said temporary.
Sometimes there' s the fear of already too. I' m never
gonna be okay, I' m never ever gonna be me again, I
' m never gonna be emotionally, mentally balanced, and that' s in
doubt, with the right treatment, things are gonna be okay again. For
this it is good, because I remind you that Tania coordinates this group of
breast circles, which is virtually a day of the week, a time of
time, connected with other people in the same circumstances, with whom you can
talk about what in other contexts you cannot. So I give you the data
again. It' s already on social media, but I' ll give
you the data again. Fifty- six, thirty- seven, eight,
zero- eight, forty- one, fifty- six, thirty- seven,
eight, eight, forty- one can send whatsapp or call for information
about mom circles. Don' t let the opportunity pass, they' re
getting really rich. Self- help groups all their lives have been very famous
for the huge impact they have and Ti Tania thank you so much for coming
to discuss these issues with us. Thank you very much. To Ti Chayo
a taste and then good. I want to go xavi shando that the week
that enters Easter week major in our country we will have a series of programs
to all s Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays. The programmes will be aimed at
their children and adolescents. What problems do they have, what handling tips can
be given to them. Anyway, everything that has to do with this.
On Monday, in particular, we' re going to talk about whether your
parents got divorced, if they already told you that they' re going to
split up, how to deal with the conflict they have and if they'
re already divorced, they' re already separated and now they have a new
partner, how and what if it' s up to you and not,
and how you can adapt and help understand those circumstances. Tuesday how to handle
conflicts that arise at home and what happens to bullying at school, how you
can face it and, above all, identify what role you play in bullying
at school, because this is addressed to everyone. Wednesday we' re going
to talk about what happens when you feel sorry to speak in public and you
have to give the class, present the project. Well, some strategies,
how to handle it, how to do it, and how to handle it
Plus, the mockery and the joke that others can do to you. There
' s a lot of skills I' m going to recommend. And Thursday
and Friday notice that they have asked a lot again for the program we had
with our Taritron couple therapist of what are those things that impact a couple relationship
in a significant way. And she talked about seven skills that we don'
t have to acquire to not spoil our couple relationship. And on Good Friday
we will repeat the program that we had now in commemoration of Women' s
Day, with our dear neurophysiologist Eduardo Calixto, who came to talk about why
a woman stays in a violent relationship, Despite this, to be having a
hard time, what happens Neurologically speaking, have asked for those two programs very
much. So let' s take advantage of it and in Easter, Thursday
and Friday we will repeat them to you. That' s what you'
ll see We' ve got a super week ready. The week that comes
in, let' s notify your children because they' re going to be
pure tips and recommendations directly for them and well with this we get to the
end of the program. I' m Chayo Busquets. This was Chayo with
you until tomorrow here at 1: 00 in Chayo with you Audio Center