WEBVTT 1 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:26.440 Good Morney, Good morney, good morning. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. 2 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:29.679 It's time now for our community connection on King one of the one you trust. 3 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:31.920 Coming up a little bit later on we're gonna be talking about to our 4 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:35.320 prose from my Truity Credit Union. But right now, good friend of Barnes 5 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:38.679 Deal Lewis is in the house and Dale you always bring friends. Oh, 6 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:43.119 this time is really good too. We're going back to the past, back 7 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:49.280 to June twenty third, nineteen seventy six, and I brought with me today 8 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:55.640 the DA of o Sage County from nineteen seventy to nineteen seventy eight, Bill 9 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:58.960 Hall. And Bill, before I get to going too far, why don't 10 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:03.000 you introduce yourself up and tell everybody who you are? Well, I him 11 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:07.920 Bill Hall, and I'm a retired lawyer. I'm kind of up in years 12 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.079 now, so I'm slow and that kind of stuff. But I did used 13 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:17.040 to be the District Attorney in os Agan Ponnee Counties in nineteen seventy one to 14 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:22.879 left office in nineteen seventy nine, and Osage County was like stepping back in 15 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:26.400 the history back then, and it was very busy county. We had a 16 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:32.799 lot of criminal activity, and Sandy Kenny's case was one of them. Now 17 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:38.400 since Kenny, this is the young girl for the reference to our audience who's 18 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:42.439 been the subject of some news stories as of late. But back in the 19 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:46.359 day, it was in nineteen seventy six. She was last seen at a 20 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:52.840 laundromat in Pawhuska and no one has seen him since. Well, can you 21 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:56.400 tell us about that period? Well, you're correct on the what you just 22 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.159 said. I was a district attorney at the time, and I lived out 23 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:05.640 in the community of Nilauguny, Oklahoma, and it so happened that the Kennys 24 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:09.400 lived about a mile from me, and I knew the Kenny family. The 25 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:13.479 father had worked on my house that were built, and I got to know 26 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:17.840 him quite well later along with the kids. Cindy Kenny was one of two 27 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:23.240 children of the Kenny's and they rode the same school bus into town that my 28 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:28.039 kids rode. So I knew her well. And I can remember that particular 29 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:31.919 morning when I first learned that she was missing. That was on I understand 30 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:38.000 June of nineteen seventy six. I can tell you this that I went into 31 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:43.919 the office on that day for the regular business we had court appearance as schedule, 32 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:46.680 so I went to work and was taking care of that, and some 33 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:52.319 time later in the morning, I received word that Cindy Kenny was missing, 34 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:57.280 and that's when we begin to get the information. I had to continue to 35 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.800 work that day, but I had continuous feedback coming from the search for Cindy 36 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:06.680 Kenny. So I knew Cindy well, I knew the family well, and 37 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.680 we had some very competent law enforcement officers in a stage county at that time. 38 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:14.800 The case was hard worked, but we never got the break that we 39 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:20.639 needed in the case. You had probably some clues, but they seemed to 40 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:23.360 be dead ends, didn't they Well, everything was dead every What I can 41 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:29.439 tell you is that every clue that came in for a long period of time 42 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:35.960 was diligently worked by law enforcement, but we never got beyond what information was 43 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.319 available at the laundry, and there was not enough available there to give us 44 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:45.439 any direction to go. And folks do if you weren't around. Back in 45 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:51.039 the mid nineteen seventies, surveillance cameras weren't everywhere. They were quite rare. 46 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:55.280 Usually discovernment installations had those. Very few banks even had them back then. 47 00:03:55.439 --> 00:04:00.560 Yep, So you're right. There was a bank across us the road, 48 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.599 and I remember that there were a lot of efforts and some workmen over there 49 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:09.039 at the time, but efforts were made to obtain any surveillance, and there 50 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:15.080 wasn't any. All the bank workers who were constructing people weren't interviewed. There 51 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:17.959 was nothing over there. Nobody saw anything. So she went to work on 52 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:24.160 that day disappeared. As I remember, her purse and car keys were left 53 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:29.920 in the laundry. The car was there, she was missing. And it's 54 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:34.879 hard to give you any more information except that no case was worked any harder 55 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:40.600 than what that was because all the law enforcement knew the family. It was 56 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:44.079 just a shocking thing to the community. A matter of fact, the laundry 57 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:46.519 was down just a block or two from the courthouse where I was working, 58 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:53.160 so it was very possible that the abduction occurred after I had arrived at work 59 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:57.319 at the courthouse, you know, within just a few blocks. But nobody 60 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:03.839 saw anything, and the long years of work, nothing of substance ever developed. 61 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:11.160 Now, you also were involved in kind of a big, big case 62 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:15.279 too when you first walked in, didn't the mutandor case which Neale is chronicled 63 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:19.120 quite well in his book with Princeton to do. That's a bailable bookstores everywhere. 64 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:23.000 That's true. We don't have time to go into all the details. 65 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:28.360 Actually, in nineteen seventy when mister mullendor was killed, I was running for 66 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.040 district attorney at the time, but I was not the district attorney, so 67 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:33.600 that means I did not go out to the crime scene. I was not 68 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:39.120 a part of the investigation. But I did win the district attorney's race, 69 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:44.560 and I took office in January of nineteen seventy one, and it was a 70 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:47.680 while before we could really work on that case. But Mullandor case was the 71 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:51.839 same. There was a tremendous amount of effort put in by all law enforcement. 72 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:58.519 We had an extremely competent sheriff's office. We all eventually formed our opinions 73 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:01.639 about what happened. Well, we could not prove it sufficiently to walk into 74 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:06.519 court. I understand there's a difference of having a strong belief and then having 75 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:13.519 enough evidence to make that belief stay, as in conviction course, on the 76 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:16.839 Mullin Door murder, there was a body. There's never been a body of 77 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:23.519 Cindy Kenny found and The next day after she was disappeared, the high school 78 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:28.399 was let out and all the kids went out and their cars and searched all 79 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:33.120 around Pahuska for miles. They would form chains by hand and they would just 80 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:36.120 cover the ground all around Pahuska. Is that right? Well, they were. 81 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:40.959 Everybody was searching everywhere. Yeah, you know, river banks, in 82 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.040 the place where things the bodies could be disposed of. Zero was found. 83 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:50.560 Had you ever heard of this Batku fella? Did the guy in Wichita? 84 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:55.879 Well? I heard of him later, but never at that time. Because 85 00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:01.480 my understanding is that the bat k killer either was arrested or convicted in two 86 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:06.439 thousand and five, so he never came to public attention until twenty or more 87 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:11.720 years after this case happened. I see that does not exclude him, but 88 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:18.079 we just had no information pointing toward him. There was a blurb that occurred 89 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:26.560 in the TV and radio with an allegation that a call came in regarding the 90 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:30.240 disappearance of miss Kenny, and that that call was not followed up upon. 91 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.839 But you say different, I'll tell you. I can tell you this because 92 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:40.519 I stayed personally on top of the investigation. I wasn't the investigator, but 93 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:44.000 I had a personal interest in the case. Sure I would have prosecuted if 94 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:47.319 we had a case, but at that time and for a long period of 95 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:51.879 time, because I was in there till seventy nine, and I maintained contact 96 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:58.279 with deputies even after that. During that period of time, every call of 97 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:03.639 any significance was carefully pursued. So if there was a call that came in 98 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:07.759 later and had any significant information, it was in much later years. I 99 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:15.040 did a series of stories about four or five years ago on the Cindy Kenny 100 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:22.279 disappearance and several of the mass killers that were around the country. I looked 101 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:26.480 to see if they were in this area during that time period. And one 102 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:30.879 of the Dixie Mafia fellas had broke out of prison. I forget, it 103 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:33.440 wasn't Albert McDonald. It was one of the others had broke out of prison, 104 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:37.639 and he was in the area, but not Pahuska. But but he 105 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.440 was loose. And these Dixie Mafia were bad boys too. Did you see 106 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:46.360 anything on the Dixie Mafia. Were they still operating when you were the DA 107 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:52.000 Yes? Were they of Osage County busted up to Tulsa and they probably drop 108 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.000 a lot of bodies out. You can go, you can go stand in 109 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:58.759 the southeastern part of Osage County through a rock and hit the Tulsa County Court. 110 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:03.039 Hell. So a large amount of Tulsa is in Osge County, and 111 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:07.919 at that time it was primarily the rural area, So it was really convenient 112 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:11.960 to the criminals to commit a crime in Tulsa County, cross the line, 113 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:16.919 sometimes bringing the victims with them, and do whatever they did in Osage County. 114 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.919 So we had a lot of contact with Dixie Mafia stories to tell there, 115 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:28.639 but we had no ties in the Sandy Kenny case to any Dixie Mafia. 116 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:37.360 And we also investigated as best we could other possible serial killers who we 117 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:43.519 learned of at the time, but we could always exclude because that's a part 118 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:48.720 of your process of investigation, is to exclude persons first and then to see 119 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:54.120 who's left and who's includes. I never found any We had zero evidence that 120 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:58.080 I am aware of, unless it came up much later that pointed toward any 121 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:05.039 serial killer, except the BTK killer is of interest because he is in the 122 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:13.360 local area. His method of operation I would suspect would master Cindy Kenny case. 123 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:18.039 So it's well worth pursuing, and I'm happy that the case is being 124 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:22.240 reopened and investigated at this time. Did they find all the bodies from the 125 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:24.360 bt K killer? Do you know that? Well? I don't know about 126 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:30.440 that. I don't know. I don't think they know either, be interested 127 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.600 in it. They said that they he had killed ten people and would be 128 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:39.200 interesting that they found all ten of those people. And why didn't they find 129 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:43.480 Cindy Kenny if he was part of that murdersprase? Again, that's one of 130 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:48.759 those paths you go and it's like gosh, you know, and you come 131 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:50.039 to a standstill and it's like, oh my guys, where do we go 132 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:52.279 from here? Well, now, the one thing I can say is, 133 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.440 yeah, we hate to hit hands standstill's we hate to not We hate to 134 00:10:56.519 --> 00:11:01.000 leave us crime unsolved. Sure, but when I left office, we probably 135 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:07.440 had three major homicides that I was personally aware of that had occurred and we 136 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:13.320 could not solve it. One was a molitor. I consider that solved now 137 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:18.799 with what with the information we have. One was Cindy Kenny. One came 138 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:24.600 out of Tulsa County, a young student at the University of not University of 139 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:30.799 Tulsa but Community College was kidnapped and killed down there in a rather violent way, 140 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:35.159 and we had a bloody fingerprint at the scene on that particular crime, 141 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:41.120 but the case was not solved when I was DA was not solved for a 142 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:46.039 long time because we could make no match on that bloody fingerprint. Except within 143 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:50.240 the past seven or eight years they were able to get a match on that 144 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:56.279 fingerprint and arrest the guy from California. He was prosecuted in Tulsa County because 145 00:11:56.279 --> 00:12:01.200 it was on the county line, and I think he eventually played guilty, 146 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:03.960 a truck driver from California. So, in other words, we had three 147 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:11.240 unsolved what I consider major crimes, two of now are solved, and this 148 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:15.960 one remains on the Kenny case. Wow, I want to thank you for 149 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:18.159 being here with us, and Dale, I want to thank you for being 150 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:22.320 here too. And of course, Dale, your book is a footprints and 151 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.399 to do you can get that anywhere, can't you? Well you can get 152 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:28.159 him a moxie saying Bill is going to be at elder Care. Oh yeah, 153 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:33.559 twenty eight and he's going to give a talk on the Mullendor murder and 154 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:37.519 the Cindy Kenny thing and you need to call Elder Care for a ticket because 155 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:43.159 I heard they're going fast here too as well. Great to have you here, 156 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:45.679 sir, Thank you very much, Dale, always a pleasure. Thank 157 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.039 you all right, stay tuned, we're gonna be talking with our friends.