WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:07.960 A passionate instigator and dynamic problem solver. Doctor Kevin ross Emery, the host 2 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:12.080 of the Doctor Kevin Radio Show, will be taking you outside the box, 3 00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:17.160 behind the curtain and identifying the load of bs we are fed every day. 4 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:27.280 And now Doctor Kevin Hello, Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Doctor 5 00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:33.759 Kevin Show here on own Times where we're changing the world. Wait for it, 6 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:40.560 one oh of a time. Oh good, I have been promising you. 7 00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:47.200 Uh, we have some changes and upcoming changes for the Doctor Kevin Show 8 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:51.280 and we're going to be releasing a new format and a new lineup coming in 9 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:58.920 January. Part of this new lineup and new show is going to be including 10 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:04.719 by co host today Ashley Ashley Olstein. Ashley, Hello, Hello, how 11 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:11.640 are you today? Well, you know, I'm only fabulous, but I'm 12 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:15.319 kind of trying to work towards fantastic. You know, it's a stretch. 13 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:25.359 Yeah, I understood. But how are you today, miss ash You know 14 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.439 I'm doing pretty well. Today. It was a I woke up to a 15 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:33.719 little bit of snow, which was nice. I liked it just a little 16 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:34.680 bit, and then it went away, which is how I like it. 17 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:40.560 Yeah, I mean it's been a little I didn't even really see it. 18 00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:46.439 And you know, I've been actually with clients since eight point fifteen this morning. 19 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:53.519 I'm on my twelfth mile of walking today and it's been miserable and rainy, 20 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:59.439 but no snow. No snow. Well it was early. It's been 21 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:01.439 miserable and rainy for the rest of the day too, but I kind of 22 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:07.120 liked it. It fell cozy. So uh, we're going to be seeing 23 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:14.680 ash Ashley on a very regular basis that all of you have been part of 24 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:19.599 the Doctor Kevin experience, the Doctor Kevin Joe experience for the last several years. 25 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:23.400 Here has known that Laurie, who was doing some co hosting with me, 26 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:28.719 had to step away, and we miss her. Dally and miss ash 27 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:32.319 you have big shoes to fill. I know, I know I will never 28 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:37.879 fill them. I will just change them. But I am I miss hearing 29 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:42.960 LORI too. Good. Good answer, good answer. I like that. 30 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:49.120 I'm not going to tell them, going to change them somehow. I suspect 31 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:55.159 your heel might be a little higher. You know me too well. But 32 00:02:55.400 --> 00:03:00.439 for our listeners, I'm going to have Ashley to produce tonight's guest in just 33 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:05.319 a moment. But do remember this is a live call in show and you 34 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:10.159 can be part of the conversation. You know, everybody wants to complain and 35 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:15.360 moan and do all of the what's wrong with the world or why blah blah 36 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:22.560 blah, but ask them to call in and actually maybe participate, maybe be 37 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:24.719 part of the change. No, no, no, no, Well, 38 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:29.000 we give you the opportunity on the Doctor Kevin Show. You can call in 39 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:31.960 at two O two five seven O seven oh five seven two O two five 40 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:37.000 seven oh seven oh five seven and you can be part of the conversation. 41 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:42.479 We just asked that it's respectful because we do have a disconnect button, Ashley. 42 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:46.960 We do like to introduce tonight's guest. I sure would. Tonight we 43 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:53.080 have Chuck Whisner. Hi, Chuck Hi Hi. So. Chuck is the 44 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:59.840 president of Whisner Consulting. His client list includes companies such as Google, Rivian, 45 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.719 Asked, Apple and Tesla, Harvard Business School, Ford, and Chrysler. 46 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:10.520 I'm sure many of us have heard of some of those. Chuck Whitner 47 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:15.879 was a senior affiliated mediator with a Harvard Mediation program and was among the first 48 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:20.399 to be certified through the Mastering the Art of Professional Coaching program at the Newfield 49 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:27.319 Institute. So welcome, Chuck. Thanks for being here, Thank you, 50 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:33.319 thank you for inviting me. I'm happy to be here. So, Chuck, 51 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:41.319 I want to talk to me about certified through the Master of the Art 52 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:50.680 of Professional Coaching program. I'm gonna I'm gonna claim ignorance here. Can you 53 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:58.319 tell me a little bit about Newfield Institute and like how long ago the program 54 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:01.920 was and what the program entailed, because you know, coaching is a really 55 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:10.759 overused term these days, and a lot of people are out there, and 56 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:16.360 so I would love to have you fill in for our audience some of that 57 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:24.199 life. Great, So let's start there. Okay, great. I couldn't 58 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:30.000 agree more that coaching is an overused term and probably somewhat abused. The last 59 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.920 few years, I've been calling myself a trusted advisor that people can talk to 60 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:40.759 me about almost anything, especially senior leaders who often don't have someone to let 61 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:43.560 their hair down with and say, what the hell do I do about this? 62 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:51.040 So the Newfield Institute was one of the earliest programs that certified coaches, 63 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:57.160 and they had a program called the Ontology of Language, and they fundamentally were 64 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:00.600 coming from a philosophy of language as how it shapes us as human beings, 65 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:06.680 and that sort of the foundation, this language and conversational sort of deep dive, 66 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:15.600 that was the structure around their coaching program. So this was happening in 67 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:24.399 the late eighties nineties before there was a mass certification of coaches all over the 68 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:30.120 world. So I was an early adopter. I would say, well, 69 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:32.800 you and me both. I didn't go to the institute, but I started 70 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:39.920 when I started to try to describe what I did in my practice, and 71 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:46.279 I felt that counseling was too limited of a term because it didn't expand into 72 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:50.399 tools and skill sets and things like this. That I think it was about 73 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:57.720 ninety two that I started using that as a spiritual coaching council. Wow, 74 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:03.959 you know, you know I'm I'm there to hold that energy and I'm there 75 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:09.839 to help you feel safe, but I'm also wanting to get the tools and 76 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:13.079 skill sets to get up off your ass and move forward, like let's go 77 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:16.639 somewhere. Yeah, right, let's move it. That's good. I like 78 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:23.959 it. So we had similar paths. Yeah, yeah, So I remember 79 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:28.680 because I didn't never heard anybody using the coach and then suddenly they were three 80 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:30.759 day, we'll see you everything you know, need to know, and you 81 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:36.279 know, the running joke in the professional world for because I was a teacher 82 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:42.759 at an NBA level boot camp for entrepreneurs, and the running joke was coach 83 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:46.439 meant somebody that got fired, that couldn't find a new job and needed to 84 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:53.639 make money. And there's all kind of promises out there. Just do this 85 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:59.920 and you'll have one hundred clients within a month. Yeah, and no system 86 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.000 in place and no idea what to do with them. And you know, 87 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:05.920 and then you can come back and talk to me, because I'll spend the 88 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:09.560 rest of your money and your life telling you why it wasn't my fault you 89 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:20.680 failed. Yep. So I'm going to start with this question, which is, 90 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.240 well, I've already started with the questions so that it didn't correct use 91 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:35.320 of language. But where do you want to take this concept of coaching and 92 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:41.360 what people may think outside the box? What would you like to expose our 93 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:48.320 listeners to that may give them a different perspective of what somebody likes It's like 94 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:52.919 For me, I'm a spiritual coaching counsel or catalyst. Those are my three 95 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.960 terms, coach, counselor, and catalysts. But I'm sure, you have 96 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:01.519 a very different approach, so take us outside the book. Yeah, so 97 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:09.759 I too have a very rich philosophical, psychological, spiritual background. So it 98 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:16.720 informs my work quite a bit. I think in my work, in my 99 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:24.840 studies around language and conversations. I really don't like what I see in social 100 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:30.480 media these days, where there's plenty out there that says, just do these 101 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:35.360 three things and you've changed your life. Because really, when we're talking about 102 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:41.279 people changing patterns, I like to call our habits patterns, we're talking about 103 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:45.240 changing patterns. We're messing around with people in people's neurons and their brain, 104 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:50.039 the one hundred million billion that we have, and it takes effort and there's 105 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:56.080 work involved. There's no magic switch, and so part of this is number 106 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:03.039 one. In fact, to be better a conversations with others, the individual 107 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:07.440 has to do their work. We have to look at our own ways and 108 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:11.440 our own emotions and our own conversational patterns, where we get triggered, how 109 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:16.919 we react automatically when we're on autopilot, and so I think we have to 110 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.879 take an inside look before we can actually even think about, well, how 111 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:24.960 can I better that conversation or how can I be a better listener, et 112 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.759 cetera. So, so there's in you know, if you don't if you 113 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:33.879 don't go inside, you can't find out. There's an inside look that we 114 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:37.159 have to take and and that can be for some people that can be a 115 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:43.440 little scary to really, uh take take an honest look at at some of 116 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:48.840 our thought patterns and some of our private conversations. But that's where it has 117 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:58.080 to begin for me. Ask any questions or thoughts you'd like to share. 118 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:03.960 Well, I am fascinated by all of this. And you know, doctor 119 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:09.399 Kevin and I we've talked a lot about communication skills and the like. So 120 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:15.120 and I think that one of the things you touched on was about listening and 121 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:22.320 that I think that's a part that a lot of people kind of skip over, 122 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:26.120 that part. I don't feel guilty of it sometimes too, you know, 123 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:31.080 thinking about as somebody else is speaking, thinking about what you're going to 124 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:35.960 say and responding before you've actually even absorbed what they're trying to get across. 125 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:39.159 And so I think that we're living in these little bubbles that interact a little 126 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:48.039 bit, but they're really isolated. Yes, And part of that, A 127 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:54.360 big, big reason for that is we actually are never really taught u interactive 128 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:58.759 conversational skills. We picked them up from our families, from our cultures, 129 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.759 from our experience, every experience we've had, from from a good leader, 130 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:09.679 from a bad leader. We pick up these patterns of communicating and and often 131 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:16.120 they're self centric. Uh. And that's why the notion of the pattern that 132 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:22.159 you mentioned about are listening, we're thinking while we're while we're trying to listen, 133 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:26.600 there's an incredible amount of noise that goes on in our brain trying to 134 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:30.159 make sense of the world. That's a good thing. Our brain takes all 135 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.759 these buillions of bits of data and helps us create a story about what's happening. 136 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:43.799 But if we are just taking that and operating on autopilot and not able 137 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:48.200 to sort of be more aware of our own thinking patterns which are running underneath 138 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:52.679 the conversation, then you know, that's what's happened. That chatter just sort 139 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:58.039 of the community, the committee up in our heads sort of is running all 140 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.600 the time. And there are ways to sort of quiet that committee down so 141 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:07.879 we can be my present and more aware. So so there are practices that 142 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.960 we can do, and and it takes a little bit of work. Does 143 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:20.159 that make sense? What does that sound like? Ash? Does that make 144 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:28.000 sense? Yeah, you're out a million times. Yeah, if I had 145 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:35.360 a nickel, well, you know, and you you talked about the committee 146 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:39.720 and I've myself have used that kind of reference as well. But sometimes isn't 147 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:46.360 it just to help if we could start by identifying whose ears we're listening with? 148 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:54.279 M hm, I like that? Now, go ahead, go ahead? 149 00:13:54.360 --> 00:14:03.759 Checked No, Well for me, the first point of being more aware 150 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.759 about our listening is to realize that we aren't radio transmitters. We aren't like, 151 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:13.200 you know, signal scent, signal received. When our ears are picking 152 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:20.240 up the signals, there's a whole filtering process that goes through before you know, 153 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:22.440 while we're while we're listening, there's a whole filtering process. And there's 154 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.440 actually a part of our brain that makes sense of it all and creates a 155 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:31.799 story based on our beliefs and based on our experiences. And so we have 156 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:43.279 to start realizing that our our initial intake isn't always correct and often that sometimes 157 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:46.039 the best way to stop that is to take a pause and rather than react 158 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:50.840 to people, is to ask questions to better understand, or to even repeat 159 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:56.000 back what you heard to say is this is this? Am I am? 160 00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:00.519 I getting the right signal here? Because there's this whole filtering is on to 161 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:07.799 our beliefs in our sort of the our pattern thinking that has us ready to 162 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:13.279 do the automatic response. So our ears are just receivers, but then it 163 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:18.559 goes into our brain and that's where all the magic happens for the good and 164 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.320 for the bat Well. You know, when I say what ears are we 165 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:28.360 listening to? Listening with? Is when you know, at such a young 166 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:37.559 age, we take on the belief systems of our parents, of our older 167 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:43.080 siblings, of the TV we watch, and sometimes it's you know, we 168 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:48.480 always hear that horror story when the when you know in the situation comedy where 169 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:54.639 the person goes, I've become my mother or I've become my father. And 170 00:15:54.919 --> 00:16:00.879 and but you're looking at saying are you listening with your ears or are you 171 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.720 listening with your father's news to that story? Right exactly? And yeah, 172 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:08.480 and our parents' ears and all our experiences that are in that filtering system, 173 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:15.600 so we lived that. You know, a story in my book The Art 174 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:19.519 of Conscious Conversations is about I was told when I was a young man I 175 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:25.120 had three sisters older than me who could do all the girl things and have 176 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:29.519 emotions and cry, but all the things I didn't like to do. I 177 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.759 was always told you're not a big enough man, and I adopted that story. 178 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:37.240 I adopt that story for twenty five years of my life until I was 179 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:41.720 able to bust it. And that's because if my grand the grandfather's words that 180 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:47.440 he said time and time again stuck in my brain and that became a belief 181 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:51.799 that I adopted as an innocent child. Didn't do it consciously, but because 182 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:56.720 I gave his voice authority, I adopted that story and that lived inside me 183 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:03.240 for a long time. So I think that's great. And you know, 184 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:08.480 I think we all when we get to the point that we break the myth 185 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.559 sometimes, you know, in my practice, I call them the big lie. 186 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:15.759 You didn't know the big lie. They might not have known it was 187 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:21.200 a big lie, but it's breaking the big lie, right, and you 188 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:26.759 know, and so I think that's great. I as you're telling the story, 189 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:30.880 I'm thinking, I remember. The big lie for me was that I 190 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.839 was stupid, and I went well into my twenties telling people I was stupid 191 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:41.279 and people are like, you are not stupid. It doesn't even cute. 192 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:44.960 And I'm like, yeah, but that's what I heard growing up. I 193 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.079 was stupid, and so that's what I repeated, so I get it right. 194 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:52.200 Yeah, yeah, the messages are I mean, that's the power of 195 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.240 the power of parenting that if we aren't realizing how powerful a voice is. 196 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:00.160 You know, you can give messages like you'll never turn into anything, not 197 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.559 worth anything, you're you're not as smart as your girlfriends, your boyfriends. 198 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:08.240 Those those are critical things that stick because we unconsciously give those voices so much 199 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:15.240 power. Absolutely, And I also think that our parents learned it from their 200 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:21.119 parents too, so they're just right and using the mouth to the ears that 201 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:26.400 they you know, heard their parents say it right and the and the difference 202 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:32.440 is in the work you're doing and I'm doing is they were asleep, they 203 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:37.119 were on automatic pilot, just just projecting their pattern that they learned. We 204 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:40.880 have an opportunity to go, wait a minute, I can make a choice 205 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:42.319 here about what I want to believe and what I don't want to believe. 206 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:48.279 What stories do I want to live by? We that's the that's the point 207 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:52.440 of waking up, that's the point of becoming more aware, and then the 208 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:59.720 journey begins because we no longer are just running on autopilot. Oh my god, 209 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.440 talk, don't tell me you want to know, don't tell me you're 210 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:10.720 woke? Yeah, you know. I'm trying to write an article of writing 211 00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:18.839 an article about that for for Psychology Today. And what's interesting is the origination 212 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:25.200 of that term is from a black gospel song down South, which was a 213 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:32.400 warning because these four men were uh, accused and found guilty of murder, 214 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:37.920 and it was a total, you know, sham. But there was a 215 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:42.200 song where it says, be you know, be woke because they're they're you 216 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:47.160 know, you have to be careful. They're going to come after you. 217 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:52.160 And so interesting that that original term, which really didn't mean wake up because 218 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:57.480 you're in danger, has gotten adopted by the radical, radical right wing, 219 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:03.640 uh. And what could be better than to have people be more awake and 220 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:11.599 more tolerant and more accepting and more compassionate than in being awake. So it's 221 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:18.200 quite an interesting twist that we have going on. And that's a perfect segue 222 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:23.799 into the next question that I like to ask is through through your work and 223 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:30.839 through your book The Art of Conscious Connections, Conversation sorry, conversation through the 224 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:41.440 art of conscious conversation? Where would you like to expose what's behind the curtain 225 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:48.400 today? And I always like to ask my guests this, So when I 226 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.200 bring up this segment, which I don't always do, but I am with 227 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:55.319 you, which is, so, where did this come from? Ignore the 228 00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:03.359 man behind the curtains. It's a good old wizard, right, wizard of 229 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:10.759 odds? Yeah, like here we go os. Yes, I've had clients 230 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:17.440 say, oh no, I've been wisnerized. But the whole thing is the 231 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:22.559 great and powerful Oz was a you know, was a shuckster sham who's balloon 232 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:30.359 blew away? And so what you see today that is doing more damage to 233 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:37.519 the art of having conscious conversations, that's trying to be portrayed as actually facilitating 234 00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:41.799 it. What would you say that is? What? What? What would 235 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:47.599 you like to expose that's actually behind the curtain of what people are hearing today 236 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:52.839 about how to have conscious conversation? That's what are you doing? Well? 237 00:21:52.839 --> 00:22:03.799 Okay, So I think a lovely book by Yvall Harari called Sapiens has an 238 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.200 interesting take on history, and what I love about it and how it aligns 239 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:14.039 with my book is that he goes through and says how civilization came to be 240 00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:18.480 Because our brains, at some point, you know, five hundred thousand years 241 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:25.039 ago or I don't know how bright that number is, we learn to create 242 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:30.720 stories, and we learned to create myths. And when we have a myth 243 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:36.880 that many, many, many people can buy into, then our civilization grew. 244 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:38.720 So we can have more than tribes, but we can have cultures, 245 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:41.599 and we can have cities, and we have et cetera. And in my 246 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:49.160 book I talk about the parents. The main the fundamental conversation is how the 247 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:53.119 stories we live in, the stories we tell ourselves, the stories we tell 248 00:22:53.160 --> 00:23:00.039 about others, and the stories we tell tell others. And so to look 249 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:06.480 at our stories means we have to take them apart. There's the emotional part, 250 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:11.839 there's facts, which are crucial for society, and then there's our opinions, 251 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:17.599 which is where everything gets messy, because our opinions contain all of our 252 00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:21.440 beliefs and all of our patterns and all the things we adopted from our families 253 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:26.119 and our cultures. And so what I like to say is we have to 254 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.039 deconstruct our stories, the ones that are serving us well. I think you 255 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.440 know, enjoy. But the ones that are holding us back, are the 256 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:37.319 ones that are keeping us to get where we want to go, or the 257 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:41.079 ones that are keeping us and stuck in a relationship. We have to deconstruct 258 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:48.039 them, take them apart, and really try to transform them to something positive 259 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:56.400 and something that we can act on. Does that make sense? He's making 260 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:07.000 fun of me as you answer the question, I am getting it. Yeah. 261 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.200 So so one thing, one tool that I've done with hundreds of people 262 00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:19.079 is and this is something that was created by Chris Arduis at the Harvard Business 263 00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:23.680 School, probably thirty years ago, but it was too early. It was 264 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:32.319 he was before his time. And that is to simply take a tough conversation, 265 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:37.720 Take a conversation that you walked away from frustrated or angry, or you 266 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:45.000 know, you really upset about the other person who has a lot of judgment 267 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.039 involved, and take a piece of paper and on the right side of the 268 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:52.960 paper, write down what you were thinking, what you were saying. I 269 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.720 said, what do you think of the project? She said, it's too 270 00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:59.039 soon to tell. I said, well, we have two months until we 271 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:02.599 have to do a report. She said, X, So just write down 272 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.119 four or five exchanges of that conversation, take a breath, and then on 273 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:14.119 the left side, write down what you were thinking and feeling when both parties 274 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.839 were speaking. So when I was speaking, what was I thinking and feeling? 275 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:23.039 When she was speaking, what was I thinking and feeling? And it's 276 00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:27.039 remarkable how many people, when they actually write it down and get it out 277 00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:32.279 of the noise in their head. I actually realized that, oh my gosh, 278 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:34.480 my private conversation, which is what's happening on the left side of the 279 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:44.200 paper, is really toxic. It's very judgmental. Their curse words, I'm 280 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:51.200 defensive. Yeah, I'm defensive on this and this is fairly universal. And 281 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.519 so that's an eye opener to do. And then the question is how do 282 00:25:56.599 --> 00:26:03.880 we take that talk judgment, which is like, you've got to do something 283 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:08.400 with it. Because my analogy is if you keep stuffing a toxic waste into 284 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.440 an oil drum, sooner or later it's going to be two things. These 285 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:17.200 are going to leak out because it's so full, the scenes will burst and 286 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:19.920 it'll just leak out, or it's going to explode. And for people that 287 00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:26.960 hold in their private conversations and their private judgments, eventually it'll leak out, 288 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:32.960 either your body will be telling the story or you'll explode, and that's neither 289 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.440 of those options are good. So if we take the time to say, 290 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:40.960 Okay, I had a really bad judgment about that person, or I yesterday 291 00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:45.880 I had an encounter with a friend and I caught myself making it an automatic 292 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.759 judgment, and I just have to stop and go, Okay, let me 293 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.119 ask you where questions here to see what my judgment is about. Because under 294 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:56.079 our judgments, we have concerns, we have standards that we're measuring by, 295 00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:03.599 we have give different people's voices power, and we have desires and what do 296 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:04.880 we want to have happened? What do they want to have happened. So 297 00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:12.440 this process of a catching our our private conversation, writing it down, I 298 00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:18.319 open that eye opening experience and then we get to say, okay, what 299 00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:21.920 do we do with toxic waste? We process it, and so we get 300 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.839 to process some of our private toxic work. And that's the beginning of changing 301 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:34.920 changing our ability to have better conversations real time without so much noise in our 302 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:41.720 head. So I know at any moment, our music for break is going 303 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:44.759 to come on, and there it is. Okay, We'll be back in 304 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:52.839 just a Moment with Chuck Wisner and the author of the Art of Conscious Conversation 305 00:27:53.680 --> 00:28:04.720 right here on the Doctor Kevin Show. Conscious Media for Conscious Minds, Home 306 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:11.039 Times host your show on IOMFM, the radio network of ome Times Media, 307 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:15.279 one of the more recognized brand names in the conscious community and is backed by 308 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:22.119 the extensive marketing reach of ome Times. Hosting a show on IOMFM immediately connects 309 00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:29.920 you with our extensive, dedicated community. Vox Novus the New Voice, Vox 310 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:37.200 Novas the New Dimension, Vox Novas thought and movement leaders who will share from 311 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:42.680 their experience and offer tools to help us navigate our rapidly changing world. My 312 00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:48.279 name is Victor Furman. Join me every Thursday at eight pm Eastern on Old 313 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:56.599 Times Radio for Vox Novus the New Voice. If I could be you and 314 00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.920 you could be me for just one hour, if you can find a way 315 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:04.000 to get inside each other's mind, walk a mile in my shoes, Walk 316 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:10.559 a mile in my shoes shoes. We've all felt left out, and for 317 00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:15.319 some that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn 318 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:18.759 how it Belonging begins with us dot Org. Brought to you by the ad 319 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:32.039 Council. Welcome Mile Shoes Hio. Hello, Hello, and welcome back to 320 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:38.559 the Doctor Kevin Show here on od Times. Remember that we are a live 321 00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:41.559 calling show and you can call in at two O two five seven oh seven 322 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.400 oh five seven two oh two five seven o seven oh five seven. Tonight's 323 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:53.880 guests has wrote the book The Art of Conscious Conversations, and I was listening, 324 00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:59.279 Uh, I'm sorry, Chuck Weisner, and I was listening to the 325 00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:06.319 ads which said that, uh, you know, conscious media, Conscious Times 326 00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:12.839 consciousness that I got. We're making Chuck Faille right home, aren't we Jee's 327 00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:21.359 right, very very happy here with my tribe of conscious people. I was 328 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:27.279 gonna say, you know when you've when you've reached your tribe. So now, 329 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.160 one of the things you said about writing down, and I love that 330 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.720 exercise, I will freely admit, I'm I'm It's not one that I am 331 00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:42.720 familiar with. But let me ask you this question. I often find because 332 00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:47.279 I do a lot of couple's work, and I know you do. I 333 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:52.440 mean, I do some stuff in with businesses still because that was really my 334 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.079 gig at the beginning of my life back in the last century. But I 335 00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:00.920 do more like a lot of one on one work, you say, for 336 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:10.599 most of my stuff, And what I find so interesting is how much the 337 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:17.079 memory gets altered to support how the person needs to perceive that they are. 338 00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:21.319 And how do you avoid that happening in this exercise? Because I know you 339 00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:26.519 know what I mean. I hearing a couple tell you each what happened, 340 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:30.200 and you go, we in the same room, we in the same year. 341 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:34.759 You're not even in the same country here because it was so different. 342 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.720 Do you think that ever could could get in the way or is there a 343 00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:47.799 way to help that not happen by doing this writing exercise, because you know, 344 00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:52.680 it takes a lot of self awareness, a lot of self honesty, 345 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.960 and a lot of courage to really write down what you said, and our 346 00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:02.599 memory will oftentimes give us the shine job. What are your thoughts? Yeah, 347 00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:10.920 so I think that if people do the exercise, and it can be 348 00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:17.200 frightening at first, but if you do the exercise without thinking too hard, 349 00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:22.839 you have to be very honest about writing the conversation as though it were tape 350 00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:27.359 recorded, so you know, the I said, she said, or whatever, 351 00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:31.559 you have to really be honest about that. You can't you can't editorialize 352 00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:36.319 and then when you go to the left side of the paper and write there, 353 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:40.079 you're just asking what was I feeling, what was I thinking? What 354 00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:44.880 was I feeling? And there you have to really just let that roll. 355 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:47.240 You can't self edit. You have to just let it rip. You know, 356 00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:51.319 I said, what do you think about the project? And I'm thinking, 357 00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:53.400 we are so far behind. I can't believe we'll ever make the game 358 00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:58.720 deadline. And she says it's too soon to tell. And I'm thinking, 359 00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:02.240 and I'm feeling this woman doesn't have a clue how far behind we are. 360 00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:07.759 We're in big trouble. So you have to just let that rip because that's 361 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:15.599 that's where you're going to catch the things that aren't that that you know that 362 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:22.160 aren't you're not editorializing so much. And then and then that gives you material 363 00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:25.599 to work with. And the other analogy I like is sometimes we get into 364 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:31.240 these conversations, whether it's in therapy with another person or whether we're just talking 365 00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:36.880 in a tough conversation, we're often entering them with a closed fist, like 366 00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:39.400 we have our position, we have our opinion, we believe in it, 367 00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:46.480 we defend it to death, and that only makes for misunderstanding and a lot 368 00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:51.880 of frustration. I like to say what happens when and I don't want to 369 00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:55.759 take anyone's opinion away, but what happens when we open our hand and we're 370 00:33:55.799 --> 00:34:00.000 able to share the thinking under our opinion? So I have an opinion. 371 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:05.640 I don't like how the meeting went well, I can I have four archetypal 372 00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:09.440 questions that I introduce to people, like what are my desires? What are 373 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:15.159 my concerns for the future, what authority issues are playing out? What standards 374 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:17.920 am I using to make judgments? When we ask those four questions, we're 375 00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:25.119 like opening our hand and we're revealing the thinking underneath our position or our opinion. 376 00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:32.599 And that's like a a tied not a tied sheet. It's like a 377 00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:38.000 taekwondo move or something wherever. It's almost like it takes other people sort of 378 00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:44.320 by surprise, and we can actually change the energy of a conversation by showing 379 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:47.960 that bit of vulnerability and that bit of open mindedness and that bit of open 380 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:54.679 heartedness, and one person can stop the war. You know, that's the 381 00:34:54.760 --> 00:35:00.440 old saying. And so this notion of I love these four questions because their 382 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:06.039 universal no matter what what what how we're frustrated or what our opinion is. 383 00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:12.280 I love those full questions feasted along with making sure we're asking ourselves are their 384 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.079 facts that we can agree on, because it gives us a firm foundation to 385 00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:22.639 stand on. Well, I think the tie you were looking for was my 386 00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:28.599 tie. Give everyone three and you'll find there a lot that's perfect. Yeah, 387 00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:30.679 that's right. Yeah. You know, in some cultures you don't get 388 00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:36.480 feedback unless you go out and have multiple my ties or multiple sakes, you 389 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:40.679 know, and then then you get the real truth. Yes, truth sarum. 390 00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:47.960 Yeah, well you know you're now when you're working with people. And 391 00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:52.360 again, the day of the book is the art of conscious conversation. And 392 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:57.239 where can they find the book once we'll get to plug in now. Yeah. 393 00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:00.440 Yeah, the book is on Amazon, Barnes, and Noble, ask 394 00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:05.639 for it at your favorite bookstore. Get online has audio book as well as 395 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:12.840 you know, a for a real book ches versus the virtual book. Yeah, 396 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:16.039 so that they can go and hop get it there. And basically the 397 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:22.000 book breaks down to understand conversations better, uh so to learn the lessons we 398 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:27.440 never were taught. I break it down into four types of conversations and that 399 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:34.480 in each type has has different tools and different practices involved. So it's it's 400 00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:36.519 you know, it's not a book you're going to sit down and read in 401 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:39.000 one night, but it's a book that you can use as a guide to 402 00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:45.679 improve in how you think about it and how you can participate in conversations. 403 00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:50.559 Oh, you don't know our athlete, she'll she'll read it all in one 404 00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:54.800 night. You can highlight the bit she thinks I should look at. That's 405 00:36:54.880 --> 00:37:02.239 great. So what so I to ask what are the four types? What 406 00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:08.079 are the four types of communications? Yeah, so the first one is storytelling 407 00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:15.199 conversation, and basically the byline on that one is your stories aren't the truth. 408 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:19.159 And when we hold our stories as we believe our stories as the truth 409 00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:23.400 or our opinions as the truth, that's when we're we're operating with close fists. 410 00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:30.199 So that conversation is really about looking internally and saying, let me investigate 411 00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:34.119 my stories, let me be more vulnerable about how I'm thinking, let me 412 00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:37.360 you know, let me open up a bit. Because when we do that, 413 00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:45.360 the next conversation is the collaborative conversation. And the collaborative conversation isn't possible 414 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:50.280 when there's two close fists, closed fists, or ten close fists trying to 415 00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:55.559 win an argument and meeting. We're in family gathering thanksgivings coming up. There 416 00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:01.960 will be plenty of bad uncles appearing. But so the collaborative conversation is about 417 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:08.239 the art of of inquiring and the art of advocacy. So we learn to 418 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:15.360 be open advocates, not closed advocates, and open people asking open questions not 419 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:20.719 close questions have proven wrong. That's the collaborative conversation. If we do that 420 00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:25.639 conversation really well, it sort of it automatically slides into a creative conversation because 421 00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:30.320 if we're getting in sync and we're saying wow, I and I'm open to 422 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:32.519 say wow, I never thought of it that way, doctor Kevin. This 423 00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:36.840 gives me a new window into how you're thinking. It makes me think differently. 424 00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.519 When we get into that space of mutual learning and our hearts and minds 425 00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:45.760 start synchronizing, then creativity bubbles up. It's like ideas start coming up. 426 00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:51.440 And we all had that experience where ideas come and we you know, we 427 00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:53.000 might claim them, but we are worded. The hell that come from it 428 00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:58.400 came from that open space of creativity. And then the last conversation, which 429 00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:01.320 is universal, is to commit the conversation. It's how business gets done. 430 00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:07.199 It's who's promising to do what by when, And that's a crucial conversation. 431 00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:13.119 And we actually do that conversation pretty poorly. So the book helps will say 432 00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:17.760 how do we navigate and do that conversation much much better? But before in 433 00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:22.320 a nutshell? You know what I love about that too, though, is 434 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:28.599 it doesn't take two people having to come to the conversation with open fists, 435 00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:34.559 just one right and just one In that action, it disarmed the other. 436 00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.880 As you said, you know, you kind of stop the war before it 437 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:44.199 begins. But in it it's just a bunch more powerful way to approach it, 438 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:50.519 because then you're kind of dictating how it will all go. I really 439 00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:54.199 like it, and I love the part about the creativity and the intuition and 440 00:39:54.239 --> 00:40:00.800 allowing that to come in and by stepping into the flow of it, allowing 441 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:06.400 that to flow naturally. Yeah, the creative conversation is really about reacquainting ourselves 442 00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:08.400 with our right brain and trusting our intuitions. You know, we often have 443 00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:13.719 doing intuitions, but the other part of our brains are less rational brain shuts 444 00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:17.360 it down, and the collaborative conversation, that art of opening our fists. 445 00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:23.519 It's amazing how not only do those four questions that I talked about desires, 446 00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:29.960 concerns, power, issues, and standards apply to understanding our own thinking, 447 00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:36.159 they become a template for asking good questions. So if you came to me 448 00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:39.400 Ashley with like, well this is really a stupid idea. I think we 449 00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:44.440 should be doing X, and I don't agree, one thing I can do 450 00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:50.760 is really have open inquiry with you where I really really want to understand your 451 00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:53.159 position. Why are you thinking this way? We have a position, but 452 00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:57.599 what's under that? What's your thinking under that? And so those four questions 453 00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.920 become a really good template for me to ask you good questions, help me 454 00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:05.960 understand your concerns. Well, what do you want to get out of this? 455 00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:07.960 And let me tell you what I want to get out of it best 456 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:13.239 desires and by the way you're you know when you say it shouldn't happen this 457 00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:19.199 way, by what measure? By what standard are you are you basing that 458 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.920 on? And those kinds of questions, it's like it's like that kind of 459 00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:30.039 question is like I'm taking someone else's assist and I'm just one by one sort 460 00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:34.079 of taking each finger and opening it up to see if I can get them 461 00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:38.000 to open their hand and reveal the thinking under their position. Right. That's 462 00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:47.559 that's that's a really great way of practicing good questions, which has to be 463 00:41:52.760 --> 00:42:02.239 done by the person who has a willingness to learn, is actively listening and 464 00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:09.599 isn't just using it as a way to find the right way to get the 465 00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:15.320 get whatever they want. It has to have to put the you know, 466 00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:22.559 the agenda that we go into conversations with. You know, people are tend 467 00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:31.039 to be very blind to their agenda a lot of times, but they strongly 468 00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:35.519 have one, but they don't want to they don't they don't want to say 469 00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:38.840 that because then that makes them go, well, you know, you know, 470 00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:42.840 like it's a bad thing. And in a way it is a bad 471 00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.280 thing. If you're doing a collaborative conversation and you've got an agenda and your 472 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:52.639 only job is to sell your agenda, then you're you're you're only just talking 473 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.559 at each other. That's right, that's right. That there's the fifth gift 474 00:42:55.599 --> 00:43:01.920 bumps, right, and and from in the first part of the book, 475 00:43:01.960 --> 00:43:10.119 I talk about awareness the ego and and and when people are at behaving that 476 00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:14.800 way or speaking that way, or engaging that way, like you just talked 477 00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:20.880 about, doctor Kevin, it's they're they're actually attached to their position. Their 478 00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:24.480 their ego is attached to their and their identity is attached to that position. 479 00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:30.960 And so it's only until we can sort of separate from the position and say, 480 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:34.079 well, it's just the story, it's not the story, it's not 481 00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:37.559 the truth, that we can sort of disidentify and get a little space between 482 00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:43.960 our ego and our position, so we can open our hand and be vulnerable. 483 00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:46.000 So we can open our hand and go, you know, I don't 484 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:51.039 have the answer, but I certainly have some ideas. And if we can 485 00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:55.000 go into a mutual learning space, that's form many many people. That's the 486 00:43:55.760 --> 00:44:00.719 that's a good practice because we aren't trained to do that. We're trained to 487 00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:07.559 have answers. Hell. In elementary school, we were rewarded we raise our 488 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:12.800 hands to have the answer, to get the gold star, and so through 489 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:15.880 school and through a business, we're pretty much rewarded to have the answer. 490 00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:22.320 And there's nothing wrong with being an expert. But you can be an expert 491 00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:27.880 and know that you can't know everything. So there's a there's a good amount 492 00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.800 of practice there that we can all do. And believe me, I've been 493 00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:35.880 doing this for twenty five thirty years and I still catch myself daily, especially 494 00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:39.639 with my wife. I was just gonna say, that's just disheartening. Uh, 495 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:46.159 nobody gets better, you know. I like to think that, Yeah, 496 00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:52.519 yeah, I love this image of a pendulum, that time zero is 497 00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:57.840 your vertical. And then if I if we do something that, would you 498 00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:00.079 know, two days later we go, oh my god, I really blew 499 00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:02.960 that conversation. I never should have done that. I shouldn't have defended myself. 500 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.800 I shouldn't have told him he was a jerk. But if we catch 501 00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:09.800 ourselves two days later, and then we do a little bit of personal work, 502 00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:13.000 and then we do a little reflection, well, what was that concerned 503 00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:15.960 about? Why did I do that? What was my thinking? That is 504 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.880 a moment of learning, and then we move that. Then the next time 505 00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:22.920 it happens, maybe it's not two days but two hours, And the next 506 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:25.559 time it happens it is two minutes, and the next time it's real time, 507 00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:28.920 we can go, you know, here's what I'm really concerned about. 508 00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:36.639 And so this practicing is just making ourselves more able and more competent to be 509 00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:44.480 tolerant and in a mutual learning space, real time. And one of the 510 00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:50.519 things sorry, go ahead, god now you know well, one of the 511 00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:54.360 things is is then I want our listeners to keep this in mind, which 512 00:45:54.639 --> 00:46:05.239 is that weally never get rid of all of our triggers. We don't go 513 00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:14.239 through life and reach some kind of nirvana of oh and you know, we 514 00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:17.280 get better at recognizing we can get rid of some of them, we can 515 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:22.400 get rid of a lot of them, or we move them into a place 516 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:25.800 where you go, oh yeah, trigger. Excuse me, wait a second, 517 00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:30.079 let me back that statement back up, let me go halfway back. 518 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:37.719 Or I work with my couples to take time to learn how to recognize a 519 00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:40.559 trigger in their partner and a trigger in theirselves, and know that when a 520 00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:44.400 trigger happens, they're not going to be rational, they're not going to be 521 00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:46.440 able to hear you, they're not going to be engaged, able to engage 522 00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:51.079 in a healthy way. So back off and just say, hey, you 523 00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:53.320 know, I think there might be some triggering going on around here. Why 524 00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:58.320 don't we both go kind of think this through and come back and instead of 525 00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:07.239 saying, and you're triggered, let's take a big long breath here. Yeah. 526 00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:10.559 No, I was trained in something called voice dialogue. In was doctor 527 00:47:10.599 --> 00:47:15.599 hol Stone many years ago, and he was sort of ahead of neuroscience. 528 00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:19.159 But his idea was we we aren't going to ever get rid of our triggers, 529 00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:22.840 or even our demons, our ego, our negative ego demons. But 530 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:28.079 instead of trying to exorcize them and get rid of them, we need to 531 00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:31.360 acknowledge them and befriend them, because they at some point in our life, 532 00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:36.679 they came about to to help us, to support us, to make sure 533 00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:40.719 we we we were safe in life. And so just sort of naming it, 534 00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:45.159 naming the trigger, understanding it, and then saying, you know, 535 00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:47.519 I'm not going to get rid of it, but let me understand why I 536 00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:52.960 have this trigger. And that's the process where we can start transforming some of 537 00:47:52.000 --> 00:48:00.719 the underbelly thoughts that are that are driving the trigger. So that notion of 538 00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:04.639 let's not try to rid ourselves of everything, but let's try to understand them, 539 00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:10.719 and through the understanding they get transformed. Well, yeah, go ahead 540 00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:13.920 to ask, go ahead, Well, what I was going to say is 541 00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:20.440 what I like also is sometimes when I'm triggered. Oftentimes I'm triggered, I 542 00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:24.920 don't have the language, I don't have the ability to like process it through. 543 00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:29.320 But I think through this practice it gives you that communication skill, the 544 00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:35.079 words, the language and the definitions that they're a little bit easier to grasp 545 00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:38.880 in those moments when you're feeling whatever, you know, unable to process it. 546 00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:45.559 So I like the practicing. Yeah, and so more we practice and 547 00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:52.360 processing some of the stuff that's that's setting us off, the less the less 548 00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:58.119 noise the committee has. I mean so in my years of practice about the 549 00:48:58.119 --> 00:49:02.440 committee, Yeah, in my years of practice, my internal dialogue is a 550 00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:07.159 lot quieter than it was twenty five years ago. And even when it rears 551 00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:12.280 its ugly head, I now have and this is true with my wife and 552 00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:17.039 we've been married forty one years. You know, if one of us is 553 00:49:17.079 --> 00:49:22.119 having a private conversation or we get triggered, we actually also and this is 554 00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:24.320 really important, we also have learned to laugh at one another, laugh at 555 00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:28.800 ourselves and sort of have fun with one another. And was like, oh, 556 00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:34.760 there goes that little bubby puppy. You know, So the idea of 557 00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:37.960 naming it and then sharing it, it becomes lighter. So it's not like 558 00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:43.920 you realize. That's why I love calling these things patterns because it's less judgmental. 559 00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:46.760 It's like, oh, wow, I adapted that pattern from my dad 560 00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:52.079 or my wife thinking you know, she adopted that pattern from her nanny or 561 00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:55.559 whatever. And so calling in patterns, we can step aside, step separate 562 00:49:55.599 --> 00:50:00.320 from a little bit and go oh wow, look at that. I don't 563 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:02.599 I don't need to believe that, or I can change that, and we 564 00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:06.960 can be a little more lighthearted about it. And it's good to have a 565 00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:13.360 good laugh at ourselves every once in a while. Yeah, I'm a I'm 566 00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:20.000 a big one of you know, if you can say something funny, it 567 00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:24.239 can break the energy, it can snap you back into going, Okay, 568 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:28.280 the world is really not going to end, and I need to I need 569 00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:31.159 to back off from the ledge. I don't really need to jump off right 570 00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:39.519 and I can exactly what were you gonna You're gonna go ahead? Sorry? 571 00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:49.159 I was great. So now do you have any you have the book? 572 00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:55.719 Are you still working with individuals or companies or is really the book you're focused 573 00:50:55.880 --> 00:51:00.840 are you teaching? Tell us a little bit about how you're bringing the art 574 00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:06.400 of conscious conversation into the world. Okay, So I do have I still 575 00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:14.440 have some corporate clients, but really one handful. I'm not actually taking on 576 00:51:14.519 --> 00:51:20.760 new corporate clients unless they're really special uh and and really willing to do the 577 00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:23.000 work I've I mean, over the years, I've turned plenty of clients down 578 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:27.719 that they don't want to do the work. They just you know, I'm 579 00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.119 I'm fine and I don't need to help. So I have some of that, 580 00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:36.119 but i also have one on one clients and I'm expanding that world. 581 00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:39.280 And then I'm doing a lot of podcasts and I've just in Detroit giving a 582 00:51:39.320 --> 00:51:46.239 talk about my book. So I'm saying I'm slowing down from the corporate consulting 583 00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:52.119 and I'm doing more one on one work and advising, and I'm and I'm 584 00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:55.880 also working to get the word and the book out in the world. By 585 00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:59.800 the way, people, if people go to my website, Chuck Wizzard, 586 00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:09.639 come, they can download a PDF of the introduction. Yep, So will 587 00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:16.360 we can get that put in the comment if ash, do you mind putting 588 00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:20.960 that into the comment under tonight's show, you don't, I don't take care 589 00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:28.440 of that, so we had no You know, it's funny because I'm coming 590 00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:31.320 up to my eighteenth year and I don't ever get a lot of call ins, 591 00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:36.960 but I get a lot of feedback from people. And what I most 592 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:44.480 often hear is, you know what I most often here is I asked better 593 00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:47.239 questions than they would have, like, like I would like to hear the 594 00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:51.760 questions you asked, Like you asked things that we wouldn't think to ask. 595 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:58.360 Okay, so I which is why I try to be very, very interactive 596 00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:00.599 and try to do that, you know. And I think one of the 597 00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:06.159 things is, so we've got a couple more minutes and the music comes in. 598 00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:07.199 When the music comes in, but it's going to come in the next 599 00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:15.199 couple of minutes. Where do you, in the art of conscious conversations think 600 00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:23.920 that the concept of faith plays out positive, negative, neutral, Go, 601 00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:30.639 Okay, that's a great question. So I make a distinction between religion and 602 00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:37.679 spirituality. I think there's a that's that's an important distinction for people to have. 603 00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:44.159 I believe that, you know, there's so many religions in the world. 604 00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:47.920 You just look at the state of the world and realize that a lot 605 00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:52.719 of battle we're still fighting battles because we believe our religion is the religion. 606 00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:59.239 So I think anybody can have the religion they want, and they do gather 607 00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:06.599 faith from their religion. But I think there's a there's a dearth of tolerance 608 00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:14.480 and that we should find we should find our our way that we want to 609 00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:21.559 connect with the universe or God or however you wanted to find that. Sometimes 610 00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:27.840 I like to call out the mystery and and for me personally, I believe 611 00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:32.119 that I am part of a much I am part of the whole, which 612 00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:38.360 is much greater than just my community and and and and my work and my 613 00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:45.039 family is the whole of earth. And there's there are things that's so complex. 614 00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:49.400 The mystery is so complex, and whether it's God's hand or however you 615 00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:53.199 wanted to find that that I have faith that and I've been blessed. I've 616 00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:59.840 I've been blessed in the sense that through many challenges, you know, and 617 00:54:59.880 --> 00:55:05.239 I I've had faith. You know, life comes and delivers something to me 618 00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:09.599 that I need it or that was good for me. So there's a sense 619 00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:17.119 of just having faith that we're bigger than ourselves, our self focus and we 620 00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:22.119 can sort of trust the larger, the larger universe and the larger wisdom of 621 00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:28.119 the world. And there's the sign of the closing of music. Thank you, 622 00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:34.119 Chuck Weisner, the art of conscious Conversations available everywhere. Next week is 623 00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:39.119 Planetary Influences with Rob Stewart, where we'll see what's up in the skies and 624 00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:43.599 how it's going to influence us as surely you've got to join us next week. 625 00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:47.039 You're invited. I would love to join you. Thank you for inviting 626 00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:53.840 me and Chuck, it was so nice talking with you. Yeah, great 627 00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:57.480 to meet you. Thank you for taking the time and inviting me to your 628 00:55:57.519 --> 00:56:05.960 show. And good luck when your book. Uh yeah, I