Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host,
Alejandro Rojas, and I have with me Martin UFO News. Willis all right,
finally I get the title I deserve. Is that? Do you like
that one? I like that one? Again? Do you know a lot
about the news, the UFO news current UFO News? No, actually,
but I still like the title. I was gonna say, because that's not
why we hired you for the job. You think we would. That would
be the primary, you know, qualification. But you're just a cool dude.
We actually, which is a good thing because that means that you're such
a cool dude you don't even have to have knowledge in the area that you
know the job pertains. That's right. I just talked to talk, but
you know, walking, I don't know. That's kind of how it goes
though, Like they say, it's who you know. I mean, often,
being a cool dude will get you a job even if you don't know
crap about what the job is that you're supposed to do. That's right.
Those who know doing those who don't know teach. I think that's what it
is. Something like that. I heard something like that. Well, anyway,
there you go. Showing off your charm again, right there, That's
what it is, all right. So yeah, so the guest today.
So I had a really good guest, but I don't anymore. Yes,
you did so, and I won't say who. I'm not going to necessarily
disparage this person. Maybe I should thinking about it, maybe, but I
had a really good guest who is a witness to a famous case. I
won't tell you who this person had contacted me. I'll just say this that
the way that they canceled, if you can call it that, at the
last minute, was less than respectful. Yeah, les's an honorable This man
has no honor. No. So yeah, so I'm I've definitely got It's
not good, not good at all. So you knows your listeners are gonna
like, okay, who was it? I know you're going to be getting
some email. But they do that a lot because whenever I talk about someone
who made me mad who, or I talk bad about someone, I don't
say their name mostly except for I think you know, there's a couple of
people Michael Horn. I will say his name when I talk bad about him,
but there's not many people that all all. And you know, bless
his heart. I don't know that he's necessarily an evil person. We just
disagree. But anyway, uh yeah, so you know that didn't work out?
Well, say who? Yeah, but I need you're not going to
say the guests who it was. No, I'm not going to say who
it is. But I told oh man, people might have heard that.
What's it heard? What? Anyway? Yeah, cute, I'm gonna go
beat that. By the way, the first thing that we've had conversation where
I'm gonna have to edit. Oh no, yeah, okay, so but
that's okay. Here's the first time for everything. And I'm surprised we've gotten
this far without me having to edit something, because I've expected maybe you to
slip up in other ways. But anyway, my point is that, yes,
and because I need to my listeners, I'm a daylight with a show,
and I told them before that I may go a couple of weeks without
a show and they hate that and they get mad, and I'm sorry,
but you know, there was move On the move On symposium we went to.
There was also San Diego. I went to San Diego to hang out
on the beach for a week, and I wasn't going to struggle to find,
not like you, you were trying to get a guest. I was
like, screw that, I'm going to the beach. Listeners be damned,
and I hung out on the beach. That's all I did. Well,
not true, because now I do real estate, and some real estate stuff
came up, so I did have to do some work. But it's been
a while since I've had a show, and I really wanted to do a
show. It's going to come back with a bang and have this great guest
and get everybody excited, and it was going to be wonderful. And then
this guy he screwed me. He screwed me and my listeners. You know,
bad enough for me, but to do this to my poor listeners.
So I apologize that I'm a daily with the show and my guest, though
this week is a genius when it comes to UFO news. Yes, ladies
and gentlemen, my guest today is Martin Willis. Yes, so we're just
gonna blab for like an hour. Cool, I suppose, And yeah,
that's fine. I am excited to do this, But what can I say.
I'm not your your guest, you know, I mean, I I'm
second fiddle. But I'll do what I can here. No, stop it,
stop it before hey, stop before you push pause or stop. Listener,
people, we're gonna get into UFO stuff. We have lots of good
UFO stuff. Because now they're probably like, oh yeah, they are just
gonna blab and be boneheads this whole time. But no, we're gonna talk
UFO. We have good UFO stuff. Martin does know UFO news, we're
just kidding earlier, and he does have some good We do have some really
interesting UFO settings to talk about. So before we lose them all, why
don't we just get into the UFO news. Does that sound good? Yeah?
I think we better quickly? Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
Okay, so uh go for it. What's the right story you got?
Well? I think this is an interesting one and it was posted rely
by Roger Marsh and there's a video involved as well. Tennessee Witness describes UFO
as a orange line and this happened at UH in Nashville, and there's a
video of it. And I do caution the person that's going to watch the
video that there is some foul language on the video, which seems to happen
quite a bit when it comes to people filming UFOs, and I understand because
people are kind of like baffled, what the heck is that? And they
use other words. Yeah, it's almost if someone sees a UFO, the
knee jerk reaction is not to grab the phone, it's to say what the
f is that? And then grab the phone and film if they if they
have their wits about them, and continue to say over and over again,
what the f is that? Which is the case in this film? That
is and it isn't. It is a pretty interesting video to watch, and
I do encourage you to, you know, if you can get by the
language, of course, you can watch it. And there is you know
a lot of times you'll see on these videos you can't really you know,
an iPhone or whatever it is he filmed it on. You know, it
doesn't have all that great of quality when it comes to it to nighttime sightings,
but this definitely shows up. And there's a couple of stills in there
of this story you can check out too. So the guy basically here's a
quote from him. My first thought was that it may be the moon behind
a cloud cover or something like that, but it was directly above me at
the time, and there was no cloud cover at all that night. I
still haven't thought of anything else it might be. I couldn't make out the
features of the object as it was very dark and it was far enough away
I couldn't see any details on it, but it did have lights on it,
and he's filming it, and a couple of hours before the sighting he
started feeling uneasy. He did mention that I've heard other people say stuff like
that, and I don't know if that's related or just quin coincidentally, and
so this came out. I think it was around midnight that he saw this,
and so he films it, and you know, he is talking the
whole time he's filming it, and then all of a sudden the object disappeared,
which again you always hear a lot of people say, and then he
felt strangely calm and peaceful for the rest of the night. Interesting. You
know, I've heard of people saying that, you know, like the Allagash,
they felt like really tired afterwards after they thought they just had a sighting,
but it was more than a sighting. So it is interesting how people
can say kind of the same thing or so more things. They have these
type of sightings. Yeah, this is a weird one. Okay. So
this was investigated by Jula Sheer and field investigator Roy Messer of the Tennessee Move
On and it's still closed as an unknown, which they often do. Mm
hmm. Yeah. And you know what, there's a good point someone made
in the comments here that the photo that is taken of the daytime where someone
he took a picture of his alleged perspective does not match up with the video
unless he zoomed in quite a bit, because the video dish seemed to show
like a couple of radio towers to the left of this bright, long,
kind of orange light, and those radio towers cannot be seen in the daylight
image. So the radio towers also often indicate that this is on a hill,
So this object could be on a hill. However, the object is
a little bit higher. It's like mid radio tower. It's not like,
you know, on the bottom. So I mean it could be something on
a hill, but it's long and bright. You know, a car is
not going to look like that. So this one is a big mystery.
I'm glad that you brought this one up because I forgot about this one.
It's funny because I'll write these stories and then I forget about them, and
sometimes it's not till the end of the year that I when I put together
the best cases, that I remember them. But yeah, this is a
weird one. I don't know what the heck this one is. And but
it would be nice if someone could go get a picture of the actual area.
In fact, maybe we can email the move On investigators and see if
they can do that. But it's a weird one. Yeah, no,
they It could be the place where he saw the the object or whatever it
was, but at a different angle. In other words, he may be
facing the wrong way, you know, Yeah, just turning the wrong way
if there's mountains on the other side, or you're right, radio towers,
so you know, the majority of them are on a higher level, you
know, like mountains and hills things like that. Yeah, so this is
a good one. Yeah, that's it for me on this one though.
Yeah. He did say he zoomed into, though, and in the picture
that he provided of the data, it doesn't look like he zoomed in,
so that could be the difference. And on the horizon it looks like there
are some hills, so maybe he was just zoomed in a bunch when he
took the video, and he's not in this picture. That is a possibility,
I think. So yeah, one for people to check out. The
other one is it my turn now? Oh yeah, true turn sweet.
The other one I want to talk about is one I just posted, and
this is also a good one. I think this one was a New York
witness between Florida and Gosh, which don't sound like they sound like countries or
something, but these are, you know, a couple of weird named towns
in New York, Florida and Ghosh, Gosh. I'm not sure. I
think it's yeah ghost. If it's German, one of these German towns,
you know, it would be Giche more like giche. Oh really, I
know that's really yeah. I think that's how they pronounce huh. Yeah.
It's pretty weird. But anyways. This guy says he was driving with his
girlfriend at nine between nine and ten pm on August fourth when they saw this
light. It was to their left. They describe a completely lit surface on
a craft with blinking lights and if you look at the video, that's kind
of what you see it. If you didn't know anybody better, you would
think it was a disc with a notch, and in that notch there's a
blinking light, which is really weird. Now, So you just see this
light and this guy is taking a video of this. It's somewhat reminiscent of
the Turkey videos. Some people may remember there were these videos taken in Turkey
that are pretty interesting and debated. Now, those Turkey videos, unfortunately,
I have a feeling might be a reflection from the lens. It's there's a
phenomena that happens with lenses, and this guy had a big, you know,
zoom lens attached to his camera where a single point of light can reflect
on the rim inside the lens and where the rim and the lens has these
notches, and it can create this image that the Turkey video got with this
distinct notch, and that's what was captured, or that's what a lot of
people feel, and some people have demonstrated pretty well that that could be what
happened in Turkey, however, and this one has a distinct notch, but
this one looks different. And the other weird thing is the blinking the on
and off light in the middle of this notch. So this is a really
weird one pretty strange. Yeah, I think it's I think it's really an
incredible looking whatever it is. Yeah, I mean it's a great video.
And another one this doesn't really a lot of There is a little bit of
a language in this one too, but anyway, it's uh. The one
thing I did want to ask you, going back to the Turkey UFO that
you just talked about, I think that's fascinating, but didn't people say they
saw that with the naked eye as well. But the problem is all they
saw was a point of light and it's I mean, to me, the
descriptions of that light fit a star, they fit like Venus or something.
So that's the problem with that one. There were other sightings, and some
people say, well, even if it was that, there were other sightings,
but sure, there's other sightings everywhere. That doesn't necessarily mean, you
know, that phenomena that was captured by Roger Lear by other people was not
And you know, I looked into this really I thought I'd be able to
figure out what it was very quickly, and I wrote a story in Open
Mind's magazine where I felt lots of the theories didn't fit. So I was
left thinking I don't know what the heck this is. And finally, only
like a year ago, some people had sent me some information about this theory
and that may fit about the reflection inside the lens. But hmm, yeah,
it does seem to that could be what this is. But I would
want to see, you know, it's still in both cases, it's still
a point of light that is in the sky, and in this case there's
a blinking going on. Yeah, this one seems a little more involved than
that to me, and the other witnesses sound like it sounded like they were
seeing it as well. And by the way, that is pronounced gosh,
oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Another thing you pointed out about this video
is what you're going to point out again, no go ahead, is that
this guy is, like if he's listening, I don't know even if he
is, he could he a little bit nicer to his girlfriend and apparently mom,
who was there, that's what you mean. Yeah, Yeah, he's
not very nice. Yeah, and you know, maybe he's stressed out or
something, but he doesn't treat them very respectfully. He was telling them to
shut up, and I was almost for a second, I was thinking,
Man, I hope that where you don't hear any sort of domestic violence going
on here. Yeah, and almost suddenly that could be an issue. Yeah,
he keeps telling him to shut up. But I don't know, a
lot of us can be nicer to our girlfriends at times, well vice versa
more often, you know, we sometimes we tell our loved ones to shut
up a little too much. Maybe. Yeah, So maybe this video gives
us all a chance to reflect on our actions and how we treat the people
we love. Yeah, especially if you're seeing a UFO. Be nice to
your witnesses. Yeah, but it is a good video. They need them.
No, it's really a great video. Really weird. Yeah, anything
else? I felt like you were going to say something else about it.
No. I think it goes on for a pretty long time. And there's
also an object that does appear and disappear, but you can't see it.
They see it, but we can't see it on the video. Some red
object appears to the left of it, according to the eyewitnesses while they were
talking. Yeah, very little information seemed to come across with this video,
so it is being investigated by the local move on. This isn't another one
from Roger Marsh, Director of Communications for mofon. So this one's still being
looked into and who what's got lots of likes. I thought people would like
this one because I just posted it. But it's just a really weird video.
It's it's not besides a turkey video. I don't think I've ever seen
anything like this video. And not only that, it's very clear for an
iPhone and a nighttime sighting right Unlike the last video where you have to zoom
in to see the object, this one is just right there, right in
your face. It's it's clear, and it takes up a good part of
the screen, so you can definitely understand this person's excitement. One thing they
did mention in this video where the one of the girls mentioned, was is
it possible it's a blimp? And no, so that is a possibility,
but the whole thing I think so too. And he said, that's not
a blimp. Shut up. No, he didn't say it like that.
I think he did. Well. She was bugging him because it sounds like
she was worried they were going to get hit that they didn't pull over far
enough on the side of the road, I think, And so he's like,
whatuit bothering? Me about that. So yeah in New York. Yeah,
so yeah, so that it's really good. So other than you know
that, there's not other necessarily news I want to talk about, but there
is something we've done recently I would like to talk about and get your opinion
on. I am all ears, Okay, So I finally put together I've
been telling people about this Open Minds magazine and how we're kind of re launching
it and doing it in a video format and stuff like this, and we
finally got it done, and I'm so excited about it. And I'm really
excited about this piece because essentially, if you haven't watched it, and I
know many of you listeners have not listened to it, because I know how
many listeners we have for the most part, and I can see how many
hits we have in the video. Now, not to say that the video
hasn't gotten a lot of hits. It has, but it can't get more.
And I just am very excited to share this with my listeners and and
to share this information. So the video starts off where I explained what Open
Minds Magazine is and how we're going to start to look at this phenomenon,
how the government and military and public have reacted to it, and it's kind
of setting the base. So talking about how Project Blue Book, of course
was the first investigation by the Air Force, well that there were other projects
involved, but that the Air Force did look into all of this stuff and
the Air Force said, essentially there isn't anything to it. However, they
the files themselves, of course, tell a different story because a lot of
these files are very interesting. You know, they've said there's seven hundred and
twelve or or you know, all of these numbers of unknowns. That number
is inflex because you know, depending on different reports, you get different numbers.
But there were hundreds of unknowns, some of which were very very good.
We've got one on our front page actually too, if people look at
the military section, one of the best Blue Book unknowns. I like it
because it's a bunch of police officers from several different precincts who saw this UFO.
But what's great about the nineteen fifty two Washington sidings, which I cover
here, is that, in particular is that this was witnessed over the Capitol,
so the most secure locations in the United States, and they were witnessed
by the Blue Book investigators Bluebook investigators from the Pentagon raced over to National Airport
in Washington, DC to go into the control tower to see these objects being
picked up on radar, to scramble jets, to be there when the jets
cannot catch the objects, and so they were there. They were present the
whole time. The best the reason we have such detail on what happened there
is because of Edward Rupelt's book who was He was the man in charge of
blue Book during this period of time, and he tells us in his book
in detail what had happened. So all of that, I think it's really
important to show that the Air Force did witness cases that they thought could be
extraterrestrial, and that the Air Force wasn't all on the same page to think
that there was nothing to this. And I end it with the idea because
this is essentially blue Book. We've all heard of blue Book, We've all
looked at these old cases, So this is the only episode that will address
that sort of thing directly. But I ended with that to set the base
that they did continue to look into UFOs and as they said when they closed
Project blue Book, that the most important cases were not going through book,
blue book. They were going through their regular procedures and why is that important?
Because then we're going to get into what were their regular procedures for reporting
UFOs and what were some of these really important cases that made it to the
most important methods of you know, essentially really high important incidents, how they
get reported, and why some UFO cases have made it to that reporting system.
So that's essentially setting the base for this that it was a big deal
to the Air Force continues to be a big deal. And I think that
this is a new era for this because I don't think people have looked at
this in this detail or looked at those issues so much. We get caught
up in these real kind of fringe conspiracy theories and stuff like that. Not
only that, the idea of an organization spinning information so they don't get embarrassed
is par for the course these days. I think the average person is much
more savvy about that. What do you think, right? Yeah? And
I think the government is much more savvy about that as well. Well.
And I think that the average person is much more savvy about the idea that
everybody does this. Oh that's interesting, Yeah, I mean everybody does it.
Politicians, sure, government, I mean every product. Unfortunately, I've
been saying this that you know, typically the commercials are false. You know,
it's like it's okay to lie, it's okay to spin. That's just
kind of the culture. So I think people can better understand that just because
the Air Force said they weren't interested, doesn't mean they weren't and that can
be demonstrated. Yeah, and you know a lot of this when you go
back to you know, nineteen forty seven, when they first started investigating UFOs,
we had just gotten through World War Two, and everybody like took the
government's word for one hundred percent face value and you know, led us through
the war safely and all that. But as time went on, as time
has gone on, there's just many more cases where the government has either covered
things up and has been found out about it. So why not UFOs.
It's something unexplainable and something that you know, they say it's not a threat
to national security, maybe because there's never been any real threats to national security
from a UFO, but still for them to not be able to understand or
to understand what's actually going on in our skies, it's still like a mystery.
We really don't know what the government really thinks about it well, and
you know, a couple we have some interviews that are in there where we
just get a few quotes from people just to show that you know, there
there are others who have observed this and who understand it, and very credible
people who are insiders when it comes to the government. So we have Colonel
John Alexander who was with Army Intelligence. We have Nick Pope, who of
course worked for the UK Ministry of Defense investigating UFOs. And the other person
we have because I think someone who's been doing great work in this area is
Paul Dean. Dean who both of us have. You've interviewed him so if
I and I'll continue to. But he is doing some great work and putting
these pieces together. But you know, some people, and I don't know
how well I think, I don't know how you feel, because a lot
of people will say, you know, oh, Colonel John Alexander and Nick
Pope they're with you know, how can you trust what they say? They're
they're part of the hiding the information. And I don't believe that to be
true having known them for many many years now, both of them are have
been especially nick instrumental and bringing credibility to the idea that UFOs are real phenomenon.
And the point is is if even if they were some sort of part
of some sort of disinformation, to engage them or to discuss I mean,
you've got to catch them in a liar or something, which I don't believe
has happened to this point. I am not afraid to challenge either of them
when I do my interviews, but because it's not necessarily that I disagree with
them, but I know people do, and I like to explore those ideas
because I don't know how I feel about some of those things. But I
think that we can just do this intelligently enough where we can put pieces together
to put together more of a story than what we currently have. And that's
what I'm trying to do and to get that across to people, because I
think what's going to be really interesting going forward is looking at these lesser own
type of things, you know, like these systems that were used to alert
high you know, the command of very important situations, and that they were
in fact used for UFO situations. Right, and I'm still going on today.
I would guess can we talk more about this, this, this whole
flap during nineteen fifty two is Yeah, let's do because I wanted to ask
you since you've watched the video and I've been so immersed in all of this
information for so long, did you see Steph in there that you didn't know
about? Yes? Well, first of all, one of the things I
didn't know about right off the bat, and I'm I'm gonna be honest with
you, and that is the videos that I've seen in the past and pictures
about the UFOs over the Capitol. I never realized that was just a reflection
of the lampposts and how how so that is something I learned in the video
right off the bat to talk about that, But how how does that happen
where the light posts make the reflections in the sky like that? Is that
a camera? Yeah? So essentially it's totally a camera lens thing. So
what you're talking about is I mentioned that there are no pictures or video from
the nineteen fifty two Washington event. There are alleged pictures and video, but
none of those panned through. They all have either been mistakes mistakenly you know,
from nineteen fifty two or we're recreations. So for instance, all the
videos are recreations from documentaries, and the most famous picture, the when you're
talking about it appears it's actually from the sixties. Nightcap is the best source,
and I think I'm pretty sure I have a link in there to the
Nightcap investigation. But if you go into Nightcap, I think they've got the
best examination of that photo. It's not completely sure where the photo came from.
People are pretty certain they've been able to determine it's actually from the sixties.
But it's actually not too difficult because even if I tell you this now,
you'll probably go aha. And once I read this, I kind of
did the same thing. They line up perfectly with the lights. Look at
the shape of the lights and then look at the lamp posts below and you'll
see they're exactly the same. So it is reflectant or I think it may
be technically refraction someone you can read in the analysis, But it's the same
thing that happened with like these Texas videos and stuff. And I've got we
get these videos of someone going down the highway recording with their phone these ring
lights, you know, or taking a picture of this. Those lights are
reflections of the highway lights. Typically the highway lights are so bright you can't
tell the configuration of the lights there. But usually those pictures, it turns
out like those ring of lights are exactly the same configuration as the highway lights.
It's because of the reflection. It's the same sort of thing that's going
on here. Really bright lights just can reflect in a lens and then appear
elsewhere. So it's how you get land flares and stuff like that. So
yeah, So that one is not to take away from the amazing story that
it is, but that was just one part of it that I have just
taken for granted that that picture and images were in effect the real You have
one of the real UFO sightings. But the thing goes along a lot longer
than I expect that it has in the Washington area, and you point that
out in the video how it starts and and you know the final I think
it's pretty interesting that it was ongoing even the night on July twenty ninth of
the press the press conference they had. Yeah, and I think that's another
thing that I think people UFO people have seen this press conference. So essentially
when the nineteen fifty two thing happened, and the Air Force witnessed the event
happen. One of the jet pilots then spoke to the press and said,
you know, we chased these things, we couldn't catch them. That's where
you get the famous photos of the Washington Post where it says jet outpaced by
saucer and then there's a quote in there from the jet pilot. So the
Air Force felt pressured then to make a comment, so they had a press
conference and General Samford, who was a Director of Air Force Intelligence at the
time, was a one to do the conference. But, like Rupelt said,
he didn't have a clue to what the investigation was. He was not
briefed on the investigation. The investigation had only just begun, and so he
didn't know what the investigation was. But if you're just going to do a
spin, you don't need to know. You just tell people what you want
him to hear, which of course is what the Air Force did a lot
of when it came to UFOs. So Samford comes out the interesting thing,
and this is where people will recognize the video, and that's what's fun because
people know the video, but they might not know what it's related to.
This nineteen fifty two event, because he does say, you know, in
our investigations of UFOs, most of them are not interesting, but some of
these are some very credible people reporting some incredible things. But that was part
of this press conference. But he did say that the Washington sidings were temperature
most likely temperature inversions. However, that only would playing the radar part of
it, not the visual part. Also, uh, the they had already
ruled that out in their investigation because right, they were aware of the inversions
exactly, they were aware of the inversions. They never mistook them for UFOs.
Mm hmm. It just was a good spin on yeah at the time,
well, and it was it was an answer that would appease everyone and
hopefully deflate, you know, all of the attention and make people the news
cover the next story and get their answers so they can move on. So
yeah. So it's really interesting though that now we have on YouTube to this
day, you know, General Sanford at this press conference making these statements,
right, And I think it's pretty interesting also that these pilots reported that,
you know, as they got near the objects, how they would disappear but
still be there on radar. Now to me that wouldn't you know, there
wouldn't be any any other answer for it, that it was, you know,
a total unknown. I almost said extraterrestrial, but I didn't. Yeah,
right, I mean they saw these things. That's the other thing.
You don't temperature and versions, as far as we know, do not floras.
They don't make some sort of you know, bright light. They don't
emanate any bright light. So where as these objects were and what's interesting,
I mean really I think what would be what's interesting another story or if someone
maybe somebody's done this is to really lay down all of the incidents where jets
were scrambled after lights that were also caught on radar and couldn't catch them,
because it's happened many many other times. Helt covers these in his book.
In fact, he said that I can't during this flap, there was a
really big case in San Diego where that had happened at a military base as
well. Wow, And so there was a number of times that they just
said that they were trying to chase these things things and just could not gain
on them basically at full at full speed. Right, So was it?
Yeah? So outpaced is like the term they use so, yeah, this
sighting is just so important for so many reasons and and I think it's it
lays down really well the importance and I and what's great is having Nick Pope
as a part of you know, his comments in the video too, because
I think he puts it really well as to what the military would be thinking
and and we're thinking when this took place, right, And I had never
heard of Major Dewey fournee either, if that's how you say his name,
of his involvement in this, but didn't didn't RuPaul Edward RuPaul didn't he show
up during a flat but he did not witness it. Well, that means
during one of the sightings, Yeah, the big sighting where the air Force
saw what had happened, where like you said, where the people went from
the Pentagon to National Airport, he was not there. Which is kind of
funny because he talks about how he went to Washington, DC a week prior
for unrelated business. When he got to his hotel, there were a bunch
of reporters there and his friend had to get him through all this crowd of
reporters asking questions and they were asking about UFOs. So there had been UFO
sidings that were in the paper. He was not aware. That day,
called is Superior, said hey, what's going on? They said, you
know, you can go get briefed at the Bowling Air Force Base where they,
you know, were part of this whole thing. They described essentially the
same thing, jets being scrambled. They couldn't catch them. Jets took forever
because they weren't sure. I guess they even wanted to go chase UFOs.
But so the same kind of thing happened. So he was supposed to stay
and investigate, but because he was there for unrelated business, he had to
get an extension. It's kind of a funny story about the bureaucracy. So
he had to go to get permission to spend the money to essentially have more
money to stay in Washington, DC. And he had to go through all
these bureaucratic you know, and back then more so than now. You've got
to go to the office. You can't do this stuff online or you don't
have a cell phone, so you've got to find a phone. You've got
to go to this office, go to that office, back and forth,
and it just wasn't physically possible. He had to catch cabs to go here
and there, and finally he just they he couldn't get the paperwork approved and
done on time, so he just had to go back to Wright Patterson and
so he was back there when this all took place. He did fly immediately
to DC after everything took place, and then got briefed the next morning,
so he was there for the press conference. But he said it was just
too much a cluster it really they didn't even really get in a full investigation
because it was just a mess that. You know, they have very few
resources and you know, this is where you get some insight, I think
into what's going on here. They have very few resources towards this, and
they just wanted, you know, as far as the PR part, to
push it, shove it under the rut. Now, was there a full
investigation going on by this, Uh? You know, their regular reporting systems
that go to whoever investigate these important incidences. Probably, we don't have any
evidence of that that I am aware of, but probably. But who that
went to and when is the hard thing to know. But we do know
other cases went to these places and those cases are great, So that will
be in future episodes of Open Minds magazine the video version. Getting back to
the scrambling of the jets, because I'm stuck on that right. Yeah,
now as you see, Yeah, what do you suppose they would do if
if they could actually catch them? You know, is it just to observe?
Is that what they're told to do? Well? I mean, in
this case, it sounds like observe, because like they said, that's another
interesting thing is that you know, they they had the press and everybody leave
the control pat tower once they saw that they were getting these jets and these
objects were there, because they really felt we might get a close up look
at a UFO. We might be able to get to see what these things
look like. Maybe we'll be able to look into a window. Who knows,
and they didn't want people to know. Who knows what they would have
done at that at that point, but yeah, it was too observed.
Maybe they would have decided to, I don't know, maybe to shoot one
down so they could get an idea of what it looks like. I guess
at that point I would imagine And it's kind of like what Nick talks about,
is that they do demonstrate a threat. I mean, it's an unknown
object with unknown motives. You know, in highly secure airspace. I think
maybe they would have. But then again, you know, you try to
shoot at it, you could be endangering all of the people on the ground.
It could you know, what if it blows up like the Deaths Star
and you take out all of DC accidentally because you shot this this flex capacitor
that creates this huge mushroom cloud. Yeah. No, it must be hard
to be the decision person on this, right, like you know what to
tell them to do, and you know, I'm sure that I'm not sure,
but I'm guessing that at the time the president was alerted to this.
Well, there is someone who commented that they feel that they can see in
the record the president was consulted on this, but we don't know for sure,
so because I guess that the people there indicate that he possibly or probably
was. But so, but that's a yeah, really interesting question. Yeah,
and so how long are you aware that this flap go on over Washington?
I know it said the twenty ninth, there was I think it began
a few weeks ahead of time before that in the general area, but within
one hundred miles of Washington, DC, right, Yeah, I don't know
for sure. I mean, nineteen fifty two was a flap. He talked
about fifty three. A lot of this is in Rupelt's book, where he
has talked about these flaps and how long they last and everything. And like
I tell people, Rupelt's book I think is maybe one of, if not
the most important books to read. I think that if you're really starting in
this field, that's the book where you should. I think that gives you
a good grounded perspective at what the Air Force did and why, and from
that you can kind of stem off to other things. But yeah, it's
all in his book. So DC. There's somebody else who made me aware
of a book that they wrote about Washington d C sightings, and they said
they were kind of challenging me that there weren't video or photographs. But I
looked in that book, and I don't know if he understood that. I
just meant for that fifty two event. In fact, we have a sighting
from Washington, d C recently that we posted on the site. So there
are other sightings and other things seen. But yeah, this person's book contends
that, you know, it's been one of the biggest sighting areas of anywhere.
But he also, you know, says he believes these are extraterrestrials that
are visiting us too, and he believes they're making contact and all of this
other stuff. But yeah, I guess you'd have to look at the record.
I don't know for sure, you know, how many sightings in the
DC area. And essentially, what my goal was is to demonstrate, and
you know, I tell this to other people, is that my goal is
to make as strong a case as possible for the legitimacy of this UFO research,
but also to demonstrate more accurately what happened. Because the media has a
perception that the Air Force didn't take the UFO seriously, nor did they investigate
them after nineteen sixty nine, and that's just not true. That many people
in the Air Force believe that the extra interrestrial answer could be what's going on,
and that they took these cases very seriously, as they should. But
the question, the big question, which a lot of people have feelings about,
but I don't feel we have evidence regarding is examining who was looking at
what in the government and what they determined. And that's what I think it's
fascinating. I think it's fascinating Paul Deine's work, of course, John Greenwald's
work and others trying to get those answers, and people like Nick Pope seemingly
only has a little more information than we do, same with John Alexander.
But there could be information out there, and that's what we need to look
for. And I think some of the things like Paul Dean has found,
which we will be highlighting in upcoming episodes and stories, are not things that
have been really discussed in this field before, as far as who was looking
at web right right. One of the things that it does mention about one
of the sites that I thought it was pretty interesting on the object's speeds were
clocked at first one hundred to one hundred and thirty miles per hour, which
was for an aircraft would be fairly slow, and then speeds were clocked up
to seven thousand miles per hour. So of course they're going to investigate something
like that, and you know that can't be an inversion as well, that
would speeds like that, I don't believe. And one of the things that
Nick makes a point of, and Rupeelt and others, and I think that
there's just a real misunderstanding. We often use this term government and other people
say this, but Rupelt's book demonstrates this and to do Nick and I think
John's comments, and it's something we have to continue to remember, is that
government, it's not like that is one big organization. You know, let's
have a government meeting and there's a big table and everybody, Okay, what's
going on here? And that that there are multiple different departments. So when
something happens such as Washington, DC, and I think Nick even says this
in here in the video, is that, you know, the first thing
you're thinking is, okay, whose is this? Is this right? You
know that is this a navy thing? Is this a skunk works thing?
You know, they're thinking more along the lines of, okay, it's one
of ours, one of our guys, is we just don't know about it,
and we may never know about this project because it's none of our business.
And you know, but that's probably what it is. So that's what
they're thinking, first of all, is that, you know, there's many
different organizations doing different things. We don't know what they're up to, but
we know they're capable and I can ask, but they may not answer.
So that's the first thing they're thinking. So, but in this case,
and that's what's great about this case is that they're able to see that these
things, Okay, wow, this isn't you know, the Navy, this
isn't DARPA or somebody else. This is something that's beyond beyond that, because
they're not gonna fly it over Washington, d C. First of all.
Yeah, so there's a lot going on where they don't know. And Nick
Pope says, this a lot. I don't know if other departments were doing
other things. They probably were. I've heard stories of other people doing this
and that, but you know, I don't have the information to say what
others were necessarily doing. And just like in the end of our story where
we say showed this boat, talk about this Bolander memo where he says that,
you know, these cases having to deal with national security go elsewhere.
So there are other elsewheres and who those are we don't know. And Nick
is kind of akin to Rupelt where he knows there were other elsewhees, but
who they are he's not necessarily sure. So's it's just so very very complicated,
and there's always the need to know basis too. Yeah, there's always
the need to know, there's always budgets, there's always in fighting, there's
always bureaucracy. There are all these things that get in the way and cause
all of these issues. So it makes it, it would make it,
I think, very difficult for any one organization to handle all of that.
So so yeah, so even if we have these advanced research groups looking into
it, I think our best case scenario, most likely scenario, would be
think tanks. That's kind of why I called my first group UFO think tank.
That that's often what happens is you have groups that are kind of think
tanks, that are policy advisors or advisors who are able to say, you
know, here's what might be going on. But they're often the ones with
the largest amount of information on given subjects. However, often they they're private
organizations, so they don't have to share their findings or any of their information,
which makes it very convenient then because then they're not a subject to FOYA
or anything like that. So and that's what it might just come down to.
It's interesting, Nick Pope told me in Roswell, I don't know if
I shared this with you or my listeners. I was asking Nick Pope because
I'm really interested about Project Condine. Project Condinne was a report that was put
together by the mod essentially and people in the government interested in UFOs. It
was a top secret investigation. People like John. He's one of the witnesses
at Rendelsham, John Burrows, he talks about it a lot because they mentioned
Rendell Sho. Now they speculated that UFOs could be a plasma sort of phenomena,
but they did acknowledge it as a phenomena, but the UK often does.
If you heard my talk at MUFON about government UFO agencies, you would
have heard that there too. But what's interesting about Condon is that it's kind
of they don't consult really any plasma experts, and there's reading Condon, you
get this idea that there's a lack of thorough examinations of their theories. So
I asked Nick Pope, why did Project Condon, which eventually came out I
think in twenty twelve. We didn't find out get the full report till then.
But why was the report put together? First of all? And second
all of all, why is it so shallow? Why aren't more experts consulted?
They're speculating about a plasma phenomena, yet we have no you know,
indication that such a plasma phenomena exists. I mean, who are these scientists
working on these theories of these plasma phenomenons and why isn't there research on that
in here, because that would be pertinent and interesting to go down that road
to you know, say that that's what's going on. And Nick said,
well, here's the thing, is that that the report exists is really important
because it's essentially UFO junkies. It's people in the government and in intelligence who
are interested in the UFO phenomena. They think there's more to it, so
they pushed for another investigation. The problem was it's a top secret investigation,
so you can't really you're very limited on who you can consult because if you
consult someone, you've just tip them off that this investigation is going on,
and you can't do that. So you can't question someone about UFO scientists and
otherwise because they're not in the loop and they don't have clearances or they can't
know about the investigation, so they can't be part of it. So it
can't be that thorough of an investigation then, which is really funny because it's
kind of the silliness of the bureaucracy, but it shows the limitations and the
limitations of that then investigation. Now John Burrows is saying that, you know,
this is evidence that the UK government knows that I was affected by a
UFO and that is called my health issue, caused my health issues. But
the paper are all it does is speculate, and it does speculate that that
perhaps because John Burrows and people at Reynoldstrom say they got close to one of
these things, these balls of light, that this plasma phenomenon has some sort
of radiation and that's how they got health issues. But it's just speculation.
There's no science added to that. There's no you know, they don't and
if you can go read it, you could go download Project Condine and read
it right now. So and I review that in a story about John Burrows.
But it's yeah, so it's it's interesting, Now didn't the didn't the
government award him his medical What am I trying to think there was some type
of lawsuit? So that's kind of monumental, right, there actually isn't it?
That there was issues They didn't admit to issues. So that's the thing
is that by giving John Burrows his disability, which he's saying in the facto,
they're acknowledging that I was my health issues are related to a UFO,
not necessarily. So essentially what happens is it's not uncommon. And I've interviewed
his lawyer and you could too. I could get you in touch with him
if you wanted to. So I asked him about this. He said,
it's not uncommon for people who work in top secret areas to have things like
medical records otherwise classified so they can't be used when with the VA or something
like that. However, what happens is you go through a process where they
can still approve your disability or approve without giving doctors or others the files.
And that's the process they went through. So all it did was then acknowledge
he has an now whole issue that may have been related to his military career,
and so he was then awarded what he was given. So that's all
they're really saying. They're not specifically saying anything. The strange part is,
though, is that his lawyer I can't remember his name right now, says,
although it is not strange for this to happen, it is strange because
John Burrows was not any on any classified detail, he was not working on
any classified projects, there is no reason for his medical records to be withheld.
So that's a mystery that still exists. And I think that's a really
important and strange mystery is why won't they release John Burrow's medical records, which
they haven't, And that is an unanswered question still. So it us all
allude to possibly having to do with the Rendall scham Forrest. I mean,
that's the only thing that makes sense, So it's all circumstantial. Going to
the next step to say de facto, you know, it might be a
little steep, but I think you would have a hard time with convincing many
of that letting in the mainstream, But those who are familiar with the case
and familiar with you know, it does seem that that's the only thing in
his military career that could warrant his records being kept. So and that coupled
with Project Condine, are they looking into these plasma phenomena? Who knows?
You know who is go ahead? No, you go ahead? No.
I was just saying, are the other witnesses that also have their medical records
with health as classified? I believe that. And I can't remember the details.
I would have to check, but I believe that his buddy you know
who was also out there, yeah, Penison. I believe his records were
also withheld. Yeah, okay, what were you going to say? I
was gonna say, you know who is looking into plasma phenomenon related to UFOs?
No, the universe, guess if you want no, no, no,
forget it. The University of Norway. Oh, because of the hesdeline
exactly because of the hesdelin lights and so Muffon actually had erling Strand, who
was a professor who is part of the research into the plasma phenomena. He
had some very very interesting things to say. I'm sure that's that. That's
up. I know we're we're getting way, we're going around in different topics,
but I think that, uh wow, I'm just really what's it called
when someone up? I'm setting you up? Okay, this is what it
is? All right? Yeah, but you got it. You're not You're
supposed to be like you're supposed to make it. I just want to do
I know, but I wanted to do one of these awkward moments. Yeah,
those are fun. Yeah, that's why I was kind of playing along
because it's fun to do the awkward thing. Yeah. So what I was
setting up for you is like, oh wow, what did he talk about?
And I was going to say, well, lucky for you and anybody
else who wants to come to the UFO Congress. I haven't even announced this
yet, but Earling Strand will be speaking at the UFO Congress in February.
Yay. So a professor that is conducting a UFO investigation as part of his
university work. Now they do it pretty much under the auspices of investigating a
plasma phenomenon. However, he says this is no plasma phenomenon. He doesn't
believe that theory, which is I think fascinating. That's one of the best
takeaways I took from the Muffon conference this year is that. Yeah. Interestingly
enough, Irling Strand does not subscribe to this plasma theory that Project Condine and
others have put forth for some of these UFO cases. Do you know if
he stands alone in this or are there other people that have the same opinion.
That is a great question. He did not answer that in his talk
at the symposium. It's a great question. I think for him, and
it's a great question to ask him at the UFO Congress February twenty seventeen.
Yeah, UFO Congress dot Com. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I'm
excited about that because I'm going to be there again. Really. Yeah,
that's awesome looking forward to it. Yep, it's so awesome that you come
to that every every year. Now, that was a major goal of mine
to get you there, and you are going now, so that is really
really cool. And so yeah, you'll be able to see erling Strand there.
Some of the other speakers at the Moufon Symposium were Tony Angiola and Ben
Moss. They talked about Socorro and I'm going to have them on my show
next week. So we've got it scheduled. My show will be on time.
People, we'll have another show next week. Yeah. Great. Those
two guys are fun. Yeah, they're cool, and I'm really looking forward
to hearing the show because I know, even if you know a lot about
that show and you've spoken in the past or read Ray Stanford's book, there's
still some things that are going to be revealed next week, right, I
don't know, you must know more than I do. Well, I'm guessing
they have not promised me anything that is groundbreaking and new, but it is.
I mean, they know more about the Siicoro New Mexico UFO sighting.
In fact, the last administrator of Project blue Book, Hector Kintania, who
was a skeptic, he said that the Siicoro New Mexico case was the best
case and the only case he found convincing during his tenure as the head of
Project Blue Book. So yeah, we'll talk all about this crazy Succorde case,
but we will get into details that others don't know. In fact that
you know, they went into a lot of stuff I did not know about
the sucur O case, and so I'm really excited to talk to them about
it some more next week. Yeah, have them if you think of it.
I would like to know more about the symbol. Okay, the symbol
was on the craft and lannie Zamora was told to not reveal the symbol,
the correct symbol because they were afraid of any copycats. So they could they
could find out if someone was a copycat and would if they released the symbol
for what lannie Zamora was supposed to have seen, then they would know one
way or the other wather, the people would be telling the truth. So
finally the real symbol is going to be revealed. What was already revealed?
Sorry, ready revealed? Okay you know yeah, because Ray, I told
you I didn't know anything about UFO News. You were right. Yeah,
Ray revealed that like a year or two ago, but it's only been fairly
recent that Ray wrote the story up and revealed that story. I remember that
because, yeah, I thought that was fascinating. Yeah, I should know
that because I do speak with Ray, Yeah, you do. Yeah,
I talked to him and or he mentioned in an email to me or something
that Martin came to my house. You got to come to my house,
and I wish I could go to lots of people's houses, but he was
just so enamored with you. Oh well, I'll tell you. He is
an amazing guy, you know, and I think he did a wonderful job
on the book. It's I believe there's stole some copies out there of his
book. It's called Flying Saucers in the Pentagon Pantry, The Lonnies and moor
Case or something like that. I'll bring it up. But that is definitely
the best book, even Lonnie Samara told his daughter that was the only real
good story written about it from Ray Stanford. Yep, yep, Yeah,
raise the guy, and we'll be plugging him a lot next week because Ben
and Tony have gotten most of their stuff. You know, they work with
Ray. They kind of raise investigation team. So yeah, so we'll talk
about that. So is there anything else you wanted to talk about, my
friend? I think I'm pretty much expended here. I can't think of anything
else. I think I definitely want people to check out the video that you
have posted on the nineteen fifty two UFO flap in Washington, DC. Very
very well done, I got to tell you, very nicely done, and
you will definitely learn something. I do believe. I think you will,
and I, you know, think this is a good piece to send to
your skeptical friends. That's what we're trying to do, because if you send
this to a skeptic, I think it just it very firmly demonstrates that this
subject was not a joke to the Air Force and that there, you know,
there, there's something substantial here. So and that's what I think we
we wanted. What I'm trying to do is to demonstrate even to mainstream media.
In fact, I'm working on in the next couple of days posting this
story to Huffington Post that you know this, Uh, there's a lot of
pieces here that if you follow the government story, uh that the official record,
you see that there is some fascinating, mysterious stuff that went on that
baffled even serious Air Force investigators. M M. Yeah, it's a great
one. Thank you, Thank you very much. So if you want to
stick around while I close it out, yeah, sure, So thank you
for joining us again for another great show. Wow. This Martin Willis guy
is awesome. So he'll be back next week hopefully, assuming he doesn't hurt
himself or some or get sick or something or have to go to the beach.
But Martin is dedicated, so even if he goes to the beach,
he's still going to do an interview. So that's really cool, more than
I can say for myself. Although I was getting kind of wound up in
stressed, so the beach did me very good. I wish I was still
there. In fact, so go to Open Minds at TV to get all
those news stories at Martin and I talked about those two video stories especially,
Go check those out the Tennessee one that was actually posted September fourteenth, about
a week ago, and then the New York Cylinder UFO video which was just
posted today. And let us know what you think, you know, put
in the comments, Oh Man Martin, you're right, this is cool,
or a hundre, You're an idiot, this is stupid. You know whatever
you want. I know you're gonna post that, but no, people are
pretty nice. But yeah, go check it out and let us know what
you think. They're really interesting videos, I think, and then please do.
I would just be so overjoyed if you would enjoy. I am so
grateful that you all come and listen to the show and enjoy the fruits of
our efforts that way. So go watch this YouTube video. It's called the
Beginning UFO Encounters over Washington, DC. And I call it the beginning because
it's the beginning of the Air Force investigation, and it's the beginning of our
investigation into who's investigating what and sharing with people more than they know about the
official record of the UFO investigations that have gone on. So check that out.
It's on our YouTube and it's on our front page at Open Minds dot
TV also the UFO Congress. So I listed a bunch more speakers at the
UFO Congress. In fact, let's see if I could go over there real
quick and tell you so. I haven't even listed Erling Strand from Norway yet,
so that's brand new information exclusive for you all. But oh, this
is cool, This is really cool, Martin. So I've got John Alexander
speaking, and some people are like, oh, he spoke before. He's
a debunker, he's a government stooge man, but he's at he was with
Army intelligence, and he's talking about the com UFO encounters more complex than we
can imagine. And he sounds like a new age woo woo guy when you
read his talk. He talks about this. His presentation includes my first hand
experience with a case so convoluted it defies both explanation and common sense. Nonetheless,
it is real and includes not only my observation of a UFO, but
spontaneous healing, plus sightings, recordings of orbs, possible spiritual beings, and
other phenomena. He's a disinformation agent. Isn't that crazy? That is really
something? Wow? Yeah, So John Alexander, who people think is you
know, he's he's into UFOs. Obviously he wouldn't be out talking about this
stuff. So he's hard edged. Yeah, he's hard edged, and he's
a colonel. If people know colonels, colonels are like that, they're black
and white. This is this, and this is that, you know.
But he's gonna be talking about this wild case that he's never talked about before
that included some very respectable people. So oh, he's going to be talking
about this amazing UFO encounter. I'm really excited about it. David Marler is
going to be speaking. He's going to be speaking. We don't have it
yet, so this is exclusive for you all too. Brand new information about
the nineteen forty two case over La so the Battle of La Battle of La.
Yes, he's got new photographs and information of that. So another really
fascinating camp case. Richard Dolan has put together a new talk just for the
UFO Congress. How cool is that? Wow? So he'll be speaking Noe
Torres, will be speaking about the real cowboys and aliens UFOs in the Old
West. So this is afropocus. We're in Phoenix. So he talks about
these cases like from the eighteen hundreds, UFO cases with Cowboys C and UFOs.
And then you all are familiar with Paul stone Hill, so he'll be
at the conference talking about Russia and Eurasian stuff like that. We have a
few more to list. We have some surprises, of course as usual.
But yeah, so now we have most of our speakers listed for the Congress,
a lot of them, So go check that out at Ufocongress dot com.
And of course, if you're planning to come, be sure to reserve
a room asap because any moment now the rooms will probably be sold out.
You'll be able to get on a waiting list. But you know, and
the other hotels really are nearby. They're very easy to get to. The
shuttle shuttle you back and forth. But it's fun to stay in the host
hotels. So oh, chet that out. Wonderful place. Do you have
a room? Very very relaxing. Oh yeah, you bet, I do
good. So UFO Congress dot com. So really exciting stuff, and of
course we're gonna have a lot of other great people. I'm very excited about
it. In fact, two of our speakers, Stanton Friedman and Kathleen Martin,
just put out a new book and will be available. It's called Fact
Fiction and Flying Saucers. So they've got a brand new book out and that
will be available actually on Amazon, I think maybe even today, but they'll
be at the conference to sign and sell those books as well. So lots
of exciting stuff. Martin right, yes, and I can't wait. Yeah,
it's gonna be cool. And of course you're going to be able to
meet the one and only Martin Willis at the conference. Also, don't forget
to check out the Open Minds Video portal, which you can find at open
Minds TV, where we have the lectures from the past conferences. We have
all from twenty sixteen, but we don't have all of them up, but
we're posting more on a regular basis and it's just a few dollars to have
access to all of these super cool video lectures, so really cool stuff.
I want to say thank you to. Well, speaking of the Hanks,
Micah Hanks, we have a story from Micah Hanks that he wrote for the
Paranormal Podcast, actually for Jim Harold, and Jim Harold was nice enough to
let me post part of that story on our website about satellites and mysterious satellites
mysterious stuff in space. So Micah Hank's really cool guy. He does a
great Allian Report, great writer. Love Micah. He's going to be at
our conference too, He's going to have a table. I forgot about that,
so that's cool. But the reason I thought of Micah you all probably
know because I end with this. Every show is at his brother, Caleb.
They're both musicians, extremely talented musicians. And I want to thank Caleb
Hanks for our great open and close music. Often people ask where can I
find his music? If you go to the Open Minds radio page, you
will see a link to his site where he lets you download a lot of
his original music for free. And I love it. I think it's really
really good. I think it's great to get in while before. These guys
are super famous, so we get to know them. So thank you to
Caleb Hanks. And finally, thank you to you. Not you Martin,
I know the listener. Yeah, I already thanked you. I didn't I
did I forget to thank you? No, I remember you thanked me.
Oh good, A couple of episodes back couple. Well, thank you Martin,
and yes, thank you to the listeners. Thank you so much.
Thank you to those of you who said hi at the move On Symposium.
Thank you to all of those that I met on the beach that said hi
there just kidding, but you know, although that makes me think, and
I don't know if I should say this. We'll see if I'll get some
bad feedback. But I'm just thinking of the beach and maybe we need to
make some open mind swimwear. Of course, first week came to mind,
honestly, I got to be honest, was open mind bikinis, but also
swim trunks would be cool too, so and you know, one pieces for
women if if they like that, But that would be really cool, some
open minded beach where huh I can see that now, I'm sure you can.
Yeah. I'm not even gonna say anything. I'll get myself, I
know, no, just like vague shells are out. So but thank you
all so much for listening. Say it with me? Do you know what?
You know what my last words are, right Martin? Not yet audios,
jos audios. So let's say it with me. Three two one audio
smooth jot motion