WEBVTT

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It's the lapsed fan Wrestling podcast with
Jack and Carnes, e O and JP

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Sorrow. He's a lapsed fan.
In all my years and wrestling, I

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never seen anything and it's the laps
fan man like the one in the ring.

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Forget about Sado. He the real
king of swing. When the bell

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goes in with the kick, like
me throwing in the corner, but it

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splashed like stick. Even Jerry King
can say off the crowd nodded in his

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head like it. Steve low Brown
would get low down for the goat,

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even high up flipp you on your
head. But you know cool driver speaking

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more now and Dragon spits fire give
you more shock than when Edge treats higher

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drop a more truth than the con
of sniper unless you with a coconut,

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Roddy Piper, Jack a JP he
like j Y d drop the cupcakes and

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gold the grain. Bob means the
best podcast. First start to close round.

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If you all be a classic pose
Boss is two thousand or twenty twenty

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four of the year of living dangerously
You tell me, I would say there

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about equal maybe around these parts.
Thanks to the random draw, We're back

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and the realm of extreme and the
land of extreme. It wasn't too many

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weeks ago, boss that I said, Hey, why aren't ECW shows in

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our random hopper draw? And I
just had to fucking like say, well,

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you know what, let's just probably
won't happen right away, Let's just

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see what let's just throw them in
and and just fucking go with it.

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My surprise, you jumped in with
both feet and we drew a show that

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I'm sure you enjoyed deeply but is
also full. Tell you they definitely it

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definitely moved up to its ECW standard. There which extreme cringe worthy waste?

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Oh my goodness, Well, I'm
sure you've been waiting days and weeks to

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deploy that one ECWD Living Dangerously two
thousand and say that you will about the

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show, it is replete with historical
significance. I'm sure you appreciate that.

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No, I don't. I mean
the historical significance is that it pissed me

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off. Dusty Roads at an ECW
ring Why he was he was amazing?

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Huh he uh. I mean again
it comes back to really to the to

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the TNA stuff in a way,
believe it or not. When you've got

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these these legends who are older and
they still and and Terry funk in some

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ways how they need to prove their
worth, and so they got to get

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in down and dirty with what's current. And it just I can't help but

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feel sad and a little sick to
my stomach. Yeah. Yeah, they

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didn't have to prove their worth.
They had to find a way to pay

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the bills, especially in Dusty's case, Well, they had to find some

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kind of worth I suppose, and
released from WCW and was sort of casting

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about. And as we'll get to
it, it's a moment in Paul Hayman

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hiring Dusty Roads to come into CW
in two thousand that the Rhodes family really

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appreciated because budgets were getting very tight. The American dream wasn't wasn't the American

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dream in two thousand? You know, he was not. He was more

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like his son now, he was
an American nightmare. If being able to

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I don't know, a four year
mortgage is part of the American dream,

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then Dusty was about to really put
his moniker to the test. Nah,

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But his old buddy from back in
the day, you know, from old

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buddy might be stretching into it.
Can I say you know, we had

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a great run. By the way, you know, we had a run

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of no ECW shows for three years. Has it been three years? Three

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years? Been wonderful. I mean, I don't know. I don't know

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if TNA is worse or not.
It might be equal talking about TNH right

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TNHTNA. I mean, you know, general, I'm shocked that you didn't

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enjoy the new Jack viit rhymes match. I mean, if you're good.

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I don't even know where to begin. It's a serendipitous an ECW show is

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going to get why because we just
talked about Greed and Dusty coming back at

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the end of the Dying Days and
sort of got a glimpse into that period

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of Dusty's life and and him meeting
some him having some more greed with a

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trying to find you don't get another
job, right, And this ECW run

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really starts that period in chapter of
Dustiness. So there's that serendipity. Greed

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has Mike Awesome and Lance Storm and
several others who fled this precise ECW.

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This is close to the final show
at ECW, certainly is in terms of

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pay per view for Mike Awesome,
but also Lance Storm would be leaving for

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WCW quite soon after this as well. That's kind of crazy, Like I

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guess I didn't realize how little they
were actually in WCW before it died.

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I know, I thought lan Storm
did all of two thousand in WCW.

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Then I looked at this show.
I was like, wait a minute,

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it wasn't until like June. I
don't think that he made the jump.

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That's crazy. As we'll talk about
Mike Awesome. Certainly everyone knows he made

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the jump in April because it went
down in history, and it went down

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in a courtroom, his right departure
as ECW World Heavyweight Champion for the greener

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grasses of WCW, and Paul Hayman
in increasingly desperate mode getting a lot more

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litigious about folks leaving Saboo as well
try to leave in two and he stood

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in the way with lawyers on that
one as well. So stressors starting to

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appear. Of course, ECW is
at the point now where they're straight up

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mocking their network television partner TNN by
putting Don Kallis, I mean the cyrus

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of the virus network representative characters that
that network is a heel to the one

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of a kind DCW fan base.
It is. It is one of the

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most self indulgent, obnoxious and like
I just I felt kind of just kind

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of weird and ikey. It just
didn't sit well with me. The whole

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show, well, that storyline,
how it played out on this show,

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Like I don't know the whole I
don't know what happened by the time,

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I'm sure, but it was just
like it just felt so icky, do

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you know what I mean, Like
it just felt weird and desperate. Yeah,

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especially in retrospect knowing that it all
fell apart between Paul and TNN,

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and if you're following the sheets at
the time, you certainly knew that it

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wasn't all paradise. But what basically
is happening is, I mean, who's

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on TNN in two thousand and September. And so Paul kind of gets a

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whiff of you know what, We're
just sitting here as proof of concept for

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wrestling on TNN, and they have
no intention of actually leaning into us.

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They're just trying to see if wrestling
works in their network so that they can

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make a huge offer for WWF.
And that's kind of how his side of

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the narrative has gone down in history, and so you see those frustrations expressed

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by making the network a heel on
ECW Television and almost and als we'll talk

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about quite literally daring TNN to throw
them off the air before the contract was

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up. Wow, before they had
delibered all contractual episodes. Wow. I

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feel like that's a big disconnect for
ECW fans because as smart as they were

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quote unquote is tied into the behind
the scenes as they were, I'm not

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sure that they were as ready to
go to war with a network as Paul

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Hyman to tell himself, as fans
were like, I mean, they don't

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really give a fuck, Like can
we just see some action please? Like

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that's enough. That's kind of a
little like you know, you've got to

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be ballsy, you know, Like
I don't know, I mean, I

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don't know's you're either you're either really
really stupid or you're really really ballsy.

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Yeah, to do that kind of
thing. Yeah, it's probably both.

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I wouldn't say really stupid. Paul. Like when Paul knows something isn't gonna

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work out, he starts healing the
other side that most people in wrestling.

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That happened staying power figure that out. They figure out, how can I

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make this isn't going anywhere, but
before it becomes a parent anybody that is

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collapsing, how can I make a
heel out of the person that kind of

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one up to me in this situation? Right? And I think that's where

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St. Paul realizing that they're not
going to thrive on TNN and what can

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we do? But it was it
was so interesting because living through this and

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watching ECW as it was happening,
I feel like it never really set in,

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like, yeah, people hated don
Kallis because just he's he's a natural

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heel walking around him you look at
his face, right and the way he

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talks and all that, and that's
why they put him in the role.

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But I don't think they ever like
hate it TNN. I don't think they

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ever right. And I don't think
the fans, you know, as much

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as they were all about ECW getting
on pay per view and really about the

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company succeeding and getting clearances, I
don't think they were so tv nerdish to

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turn on. I don't think it
made any sense to turn on the company

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that was putting them on national television. I think that was sort of like

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the fans never really bowed Cyrus for
that reason and never really connected that what

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he was doing what was supposed to
be somewhat of a representation of what was

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actually going on behind the scenes between
ECW and TN. Yeah, just like,

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what's this guy doing? This guy
talking about fuck? This guy's that

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he's a jerk, He's he's a
geek. You know. It just feels

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Yeah, I don't know, it
just feels weird. It's a very weird.

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It just like it's like, I
don't know, I just it just

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felt petty and stupid. Steve Carrino, Yeah that's a name. Go ahead,

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the weird looking annoying and he's okay. Actually I don't mind, right,

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don't. I've been really looking forward
to the chance to talk with you

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about Steve Greenough because he's he's a
kind of wrestler that, like, I

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really have no idea what you're gonna
think of him. I really don't,

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because I didn't. I don't.
I mean, we've seen him before.

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I don't hate him. I didn't
hate him. I actually I actually admired

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him in a way for the amount
of shit that he took from Dusty,

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Like in terms of brutality. So
there was, there was. I didn't

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hate him, he was all right. I mean I like that, you

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know, I I I know it's
extreme. I get it and stuff.

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But I don't know that whole thing
with the wife and you know, uh,

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Sandman's wife and hitting her or not
hitting her, but like telling her

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she's a whore, and I don't
know it. Just you know, I

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listen there there, I am the
last person who should be criticizing any sort

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of like derogatory terms towards anything or
anybody. I admit that. But when

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it comes to when it comes to
a when it comes to a sort of

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a genre maybe or something that is
not used to kind of going that far

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down by like it just kind of
it really hovers in the PG thirteen era

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area rather, you mean the wrestling
business, the wrestling business in general.

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That when you start using a million
F bombs in one show and saying fuck

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this, you're a whore. Da
da da da da, it just it

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seems like I don't know it,
just it doesn't work for me. Yeah,

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it doesn't work for me at all. And because you know what,

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it reminds me of a lot.
I remember when so I remember I saw

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some right after I graduated Emerson.
I was living in LA Some of my

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friends in the class behind us came. We're out the next semester and then

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they were doing their stuff and they
you know, a bunch of actors and

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they were doing an acting showcase at
a at a theater and I went to

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go see it, and they were
just there's a mentality of we're going to

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do it because we can do it. And so they were doing these scenes

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that were very adult, very sexual, like pretty much, I'm gonna say

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I saw ten scenes and they were
and I'd say like eight out of ten

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had to deal with very very physical
let's see how far we can go sex.

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Yeah, you know, like they're
they're making out and they're like touching

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each other and like a girl's got
a shirt off, and it's something like

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I don't I mean, listen,
I'm fine with that. But when you're

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kind of like when you're been,
when when you've kind of been uh uh

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set up to not it's like it's
like watching a show on NBC and like

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it's like watching SVU for example,
and they actually show a scene of really

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significant rape. Yeah, and it's
hardcore like it's almost because it feels like

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gratuitous, Like I don't. You've
you've proven that you don't need it to

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succeed, So why are you doing
it? Do you know? I do?

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I do. I think one of
the things that's interesting about our generation

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is we took all the way to
its extreme, the idea of insulting prudes

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as a drawing card. Yeah,
right, we've seen it all. We've

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seen the most extreme violence, we've
seen the most extreme porn, we've seen

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the most extreme curse words. We've
seen the most extreme and it's old hat.

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It's old hat. And I'm not
sure if it wasn't a nineteen ninety

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nine or two thousand, to be
frank, it may have already passed.

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But certainly, as we sit here
now, like there's absolutely nothing you can

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do to make our generations say you've
gone too far, except you know,

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you know, potentially offend our current
political sensibility, which you know kind of

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changes every five to six years.
There are certainly third rails. I'm not

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suggesting the third rails, but like
that's different third parties. What you said,

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I heard that, I heard a
third party. I think it's time.

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There was a time for Jesse the
Body even tour to get back in

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the race, but they won't let
him on the debate stage. That's the

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problem. You know what, I'll
debate, you know what, I'll debate

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via zoom. I don't care.
I want him to do one of those

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Robert F. Kennedy Junior simulcasts where
he's debating them on a screen, but

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he's like, not in the room. Yeah great, but I would love

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if they had, if they had
a whole a bunch of podiums, and

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then on Jesse's they had like a
screen. Yeah exactly. Well, he

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can't cross the borderies Jesse the Body
of in tour on you know, Live

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from Mexico. I promised to come
off the grid if I win. You

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know, he sat home all pissed
when Haulk did the RNC speech. Oh

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you know, yes he did.
One guy's stepping up again, trying to

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take another thing out of my hat. I say it's time we put a

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wrestler in the White House, brother, exactly somewhere into yup. A light

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goes on in a darkened room,
President Dude. So as he does this

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be called by the way, President
dude or President Brother. Well, Steve

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Greando's game certainly was digging into that. He didn't just say that barrel for

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sure. That was how he he
got noticed on his promo sol though interestingly,

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at first he got noticed by going
around the indies before he c W

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signed him as the King of Old
School, mister anti hardcore. So his

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gammick was, you know, just
chewing and shit talking the weapons use in

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extreme violence that the indie scene was
becoming characterized as he wouldn't directly criticize.

207
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She try to be ironic, I
know, because by the time he got

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TCW and and well we'll talk about
it and hear from him on it and

209
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:45.240
shoot interviews that he's done when they
realized how great he looked with color on

210
00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.799
that blonde air, all of a
sudden he was bleeding more than anybody else

211
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in easy other while still playing the
king of old school character and taking chair

212
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of shots and all that shit.
So that's what he c W does to

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00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:58.440
you, you know, like you
can you can come in and be noticed

214
00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:01.799
for the gam that speaks against it. We saw it with Mick Foley,

215
00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:03.600
remember during the lapsed funk. That
was his gimmick. Yep. Yeah,

216
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the fans were so unforgiving and the
fans have just you know, watched my

217
00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:09.639
sacrifice and given and giving me nothing
back, and so fuck you, I'm

218
00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:13.720
just gonna do drop toe holds and
all that. And that's the that's the

219
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kind of the funny, you know, that's the funny thing about it.

220
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Like that actually is in a way
more interesting, And it's almost like that

221
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.799
gimmick got Steve Creano more heat backstage
with ECW locker room than it did the

222
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fans in the ECW buildings, who
I'm not sure of course, were fully

223
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cognizant that he was doing the smaller
and he's doing this. What are you

224
00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.039
doing? Man? What are you
doing? That sounds like a shot at

225
00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:35.159
me? Brother? You can see
Taz, Oh my god, Oh yeah,

226
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.519
you can see you can see him. Just fucking uh. Tazz is

227
00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:41.399
not on this show. He's already
in WW, but he is. He

228
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:46.000
is part of the spirit of what's
left over his departure Inarchy Rules In September

229
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of nineteen ninety nine, as Danny
Doring put it, who was someone who's

230
00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:52.120
on this show and broken and the
team Taz you know ECW Training School said

231
00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:54.320
what when Taz and and the Dudley's
but Taz mainly left. It was like

232
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the father left the ECW locker room. And when dad leaves the ECW locker

233
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room, there there is drugs,
there are rats, there is fun,

234
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right, yes, in the locker
room. Yes with that that that really

235
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:12.360
deplorable woman there, elektra Oh,
I kill she's getting it down. I

236
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:15.120
can, I can, I really
don't want to. She was on the

237
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.240
Sopranos. You know, she was
one of the one of the girls in

238
00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.440
the strip club that Tony Soprancars.
She was. I mean, listen,

239
00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.480
any girl who lived in New Jersey
was in there? Is that not?

240
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:27.360
I am thinking she did something else? Yeah? Did nothing else? All

241
00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:33.360
right? Yeah, you damn right. So look look look fucking rock hard

242
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:36.320
tits like that. She's going to
be in the Sopranos. Yeah, they've

243
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:40.639
been commoditut right. Those tits are
for commercial use only, yeah, exactly.

244
00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:42.159
You know you don't get those unless
you have a business, unless you

245
00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:45.039
have a ten ninety nine related to
your tips, exactly, and tell you

246
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.879
that, you know what, and
those tits are going straight to the home

247
00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:52.720
box. That's among other boxes.
So it's E C. Dub and you

248
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.480
know the thing you're talking about,
you know what the offensive and sort of

249
00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:59.759
like that show you saw where they
were going way too like gratuitously into it.

250
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.759
And again, it's not because it
offends us. It's because we've been

251
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:06.039
offended to the max. It's over
well, it's only you know, it's

252
00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:08.319
not even Matt, it's that it's
that instead of actually, this is what

253
00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.799
it is. I'm I'm, I'm
I just it's just crystallizing your thesis here,

254
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:17.319
Yeah, in real time, it's
not what really what it comes down

255
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:23.880
to is this does it serve the
story? Does it serve the story?

256
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:30.359
Because listen, you can't have the
Departed or or Good Goodfells without eighteen thousand

257
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:36.240
fucks in there. Yeah okay,
so so, but does it serve this

258
00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:40.680
wrestling story for Paul Haymen to come
out and drop like five f bombs and

259
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:44.400
two sentences or scream at the Hall
of Fame this year suck my fucking dick?

260
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.200
Yeah right, you know like it. But he said that. I

261
00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:49.920
just like had a look on my
face like yeah, like really when right?

262
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:53.519
Because you know what it does is
it calls attention to itself and it

263
00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.759
doesn't actually serve anything. It doesn't
it doesn't move anything along. Well,

264
00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.920
it's said in the absence of a
direction, right, these things that Steve

265
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.480
Kreno is saying in this flashpoint moment
at the beginning of the pay per view

266
00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.400
where he calls out Sandman's wife,
who's front row of course, Lourie Fullington,

267
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.400
a long time GCW on screen character, as well as their son Tyler,

268
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:14.079
who's there as well. It all
it is is a promo that Steve's

269
00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:17.279
cutting, Steve Creno's cutting to get
around the fact that they're not going to

270
00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:21.079
actually deliver Sandman versus Rhino in a
match is advertised in the TV Title Tournament.

271
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.440
They're going to do an angle instead
where Laurie gets speared through the table

272
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.200
by Rhino, and then it just
sort of, you know, the tournament

273
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:30.400
moves on from there, and then
Steve Kreno goes on to work with Dusty

274
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:32.920
Rhodes, which has nothing to do
with the promo he caught on Lori or

275
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any of the heat lines that he
delivered to Sandman's wife. So yeah,

276
00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:38.319
this is sort of like him saying
it, I don't know, I don't

277
00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:41.119
know. I wish there was more
meat on the bone as far as what's

278
00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:45.200
been said about this angle and why
it happened. As you'll hear later in

279
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.680
the episode, we tried to get
an answer from the Sandman, and that's

280
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:49.599
like try to get an answer from
a I mean, I'll tell you what

281
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:56.000
the answer is worth a visual,
all right, that's all he's CCW guys.

282
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Man, they're still in the wild, you know, they're still out

283
00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.559
there, and like wild know what
you're gonna find. And we've done some

284
00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.039
mining on this episode for you.
Let me tell you we have done some

285
00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.839
mining in the in the land and
the mines of extreme But yeah, that's

286
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.559
that's pretty good example. I mean
he's just saying these things, you know,

287
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:15.200
to kind of get a reaction and
a rise out of these people for

288
00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.599
a segment that really served to do
nothing but perhaps distract from the fact that

289
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.599
they weren't going to deliver sanman Vers
Rhino didn't you right? That's that's just

290
00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.920
it, like it just yeah,
and and and and it's more about look

291
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.400
what I can do. I'm gonna
say, fuck, yeah, you know

292
00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:32.960
what. I'm not looking forward to
that coming back when WB gos to Netflix

293
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.000
in January. I don't talk about
serendipity we're at the exact point now in

294
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.480
twenty twenty four visa the WWF rod
jumping to a new network that that we

295
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.119
were in this time period of two
thousand as they were wrapping up in USA.

296
00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:48.200
What they're gonna do, you know
what they're gonna do. They're gonna

297
00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:52.480
have They're gonna have an adult version
and a clean version probably you know,

298
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.400
they're probably gonna have them where they
have all the swears kind of bleeped out

299
00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.680
or whatever, and then they're gonna
have one that's just that's tvm A.

300
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.920
Yeah, yeah, i'd imagine so. And I'm sure the wrestlers were chomping

301
00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:04.960
at the bit to to finally be
able to use the language of their favorite

302
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:10.440
HBO Prestige TV. You know,
fuck this ship. And when Rock said

303
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:12.640
fucked like ten times in March before
WrestleMania, was like, oh boy,

304
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:15.640
here we go. There's gonna be
the new thing who says fuck yeah.

305
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.599
Look, look, you know,
you know I mean, and you know

306
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:22.359
whose idea is going to be to
uh to have two different versions of the

307
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:26.279
show. It's Dwayne's. Oh yeah, Dwayne's gonna call Dan's gonna Dwayne's gonna

308
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:30.519
call a power play with the board, and Triple Ith is gonna sit there

309
00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:36.119
staring and just kind of arms folded, not saying a word, trying to

310
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.279
play it cool as mostly could,
but you can't. But you can't help

311
00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:45.960
but notice the brow on his head
just fucking getting so tight, like the

312
00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:48.279
like when the Grinch has an awful
idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

313
00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:52.400
you know, and it's like almost
one of those old blade wounds is just

314
00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.039
gonna fucking burst open, sort of
bleeding from the crevices. Yeah right,

315
00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.519
and uh and and he's just you
know, face is gonna beat red.

316
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:06.039
He's gonna be sweating it great,
So that was creative thinking. He's looking

317
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:07.240
for those like did he just say
that lines? You know what? Another

318
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:11.880
one is that he deployed on Dusty
around this time period. What he told

319
00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:14.799
Dusty, I know, you cut
Magnum's break line so he wouldn't be a

320
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:18.839
threat to you his top baby face. Oh my god, that's okay.

321
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.279
I'm okay. I was fascinated to
the reaction. That was all right,

322
00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:25.119
that was all right, well,
because you know what, because again it's

323
00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:29.640
towards dustus, it's towards Dusty.
It has it has resonance. But like

324
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.160
but like saying, you know,
you know Dusty's wife is a fat whore.

325
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:41.000
Okay, told my mom, big
deal. Fuck let me tell you

326
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.599
you want to disarm somebody in a
rat battle, call your old mom a

327
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.640
whrror before they do. There goes
like thirty percent of the material right there.

328
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.559
Yeah, exactly, Well, speaking
of your mom. We have sat

329
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.640
down, although I'm not sure it's
dropped and Wrestle Mamia yet available to Moti's

330
00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.200
only at Patreon. The nineteen ninety
nine Living in English Lead TV title match

331
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.720
between Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn. Yes, yes, what was surprising

332
00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:08.519
about that? And that hasn't dropped
yet. No, when it does,

333
00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:12.759
listen closely because I happened to sit
in for that session and it was your

334
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:15.920
idea, that was your on it. That was your idea. That was

335
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.839
your idea. By the way,
too, that was your your I I

336
00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:22.720
I I said to remember W match
me c W match and you that was

337
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:25.079
a that was whate you thought of. And I picked this one because I

338
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:27.079
was thinking, all right, what's
a match that I think shows a side

339
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:33.319
of ec W that boss doesn't think
about what he characterizes the company at the

340
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:34.960
time. I like that you did
it about me too, That's what's funny.

341
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:37.480
Well, yeah, I was thinking, like what what can get a

342
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:40.720
reaction? It's not just the same. You know, the ECW sucks and

343
00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:42.599
I still kind of thought you would
shoot on it. But tell tell me

344
00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:45.920
what you thought of that match.
I think that was good thought. I

345
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:48.359
thought it was fine. It was, it was it certainly I had much

346
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.000
more of a of a story being
told, and it was, if I

347
00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:53.680
if I remember critically, it was
a little it was it's a little flip

348
00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:56.640
floppy for me. Oh yeah,
but most of his offenses, you know.

349
00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:00.440
But yeah, but I don't but
I don't mind Van van Dams as

350
00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:03.640
much because he doesn't usually do it. It doesn't come across as for the

351
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.920
sake of flip floppy. Yeah,
Like I get the I get the vibe

352
00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.119
that he that he is, that
his moves have more impact when he does

353
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:15.480
something like that. But I don't
think I hated it. I don't really

354
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:18.000
don't remember. Well, you were
saying like, that's like kind of the

355
00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:19.799
best DCW match i've seen. Yeah, you're right, yeah, all right,

356
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:23.119
that's sort of yeah, I would
say that I definitely would agree with

357
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:27.400
that now, and so it definitely
was a real It was a real match,

358
00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:32.920
you know, it wasn't It wasn't
eighteen thousand chairs getting fucking thrown in

359
00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:37.559
the in the ring and for the
sake of no reason, really, just

360
00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:41.160
for the sake of having the power
to do that. Yeah. I think

361
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.440
the difference is often, is it
two guys in there who can work for

362
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:48.079
any company and are just doing ECW
style spots to please that audience, or

363
00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:51.160
is it a match between two guys
who couldn't work anywhere but ECWS at that

364
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.880
point in time. Yeah. Yeah, witness Vic Grimes taking the ultimate plunge.

365
00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:59.240
You know, witness a fucking idiot
like like road kill, not a

366
00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:02.200
fan, not a fan. Well, what's his face? What is it?

367
00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:04.079
I mean, it's everything, It's
a face. It's his gimmick,

368
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:11.200
Like I don't chickens what. I
just never understood the thing about e c

369
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:15.319
W where I thought I always thought
ECW was supposed to be this not only

370
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.119
the extreme, like to be what
what wrestling fans wanted to see, And

371
00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:21.920
I didn't want to see goofball gimmicks
and I didn't want to see it in

372
00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:25.240
an ironic way like he just felt
stupid. Well, there was this right,

373
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:26.799
there were the mainline characters that pushed
the promotion, and then there was

374
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:32.079
like the undercard like let's amuse myself
kind of gimmicks for sure, but it's

375
00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:34.200
not I mean, okay, fine, but I mean I just I wasn't

376
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.039
amused. I thought it was stupid. Yeah, yeah, that was That

377
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:41.599
was definitely a thumbs down. And
they had different ideas for those two coming

378
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:44.359
in. I'm trying to remember what
roadkills one. I know, Danny Doring.

379
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.920
At first they were thinking of as
a porn star character and and you

380
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:49.240
can kind of see a little bit
of that and the way he carries himself

381
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.880
at ECW. But by the time
he got to television, they had already

382
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:56.960
unveiled Valvenus on WWF, so they
kind of tacked away and just made him

383
00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:57.839
someone that fucks ring. Well,
they could have done it. They could

384
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:03.720
have done it and then just had
it actually show him fucking have videos of

385
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:07.640
him having sex. I suppose that
was an option. Yes, that's extreme

386
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:11.319
after all, Yeah, not quite
as extreme as you know. Rob Black

387
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.200
would take the concept an actual porn
producer be extreme when it has to do

388
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:19.359
with your extremities, that's true.
Yeah, I don't deny that, although

389
00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:23.960
I want to. Yeah, and
so you know it goes. It goes

390
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:26.559
in the direction of I think a
Scotty Anton who's on the show, the

391
00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.279
former Scotty Riggs who carries Rob Van
Dam of the ring. You remember that,

392
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.240
yes, I do. He Vandam
had broke his foot, as we'll

393
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.160
talk about, his ankle early in
two thousand, leading to this whole TV

394
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:41.160
title tournament because after the longest TV
title reigned in ECW history, he kind

395
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:42.440
of look at legacy defining one.
He had to relinquish it and that was

396
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:45.319
supposed to be heat and by the
time the ankle healed up, he would

397
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.799
come back for a world title run
a belt he had never won an ECW,

398
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:51.480
which would have been pretty pretty money. And you can kind of taste

399
00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:53.119
the set up here on the show
and the television around it. They ever

400
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.559
got to it, of course,
but with Scotti Riggs, they had him

401
00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.960
come in and do the American Mails
clap, not because they thought the clap

402
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:04.119
was cool, because they thought the
ECW audience would see it as something that's

403
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:07.319
like so obnoxious that he's doing this
in front of us that we almost like

404
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.960
him for it. It's similar in
that insider where you kind of play,

405
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:17.319
you know, for someone that's not
a main event talent. It's just,

406
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:21.079
yeah, that seems weird. They're
sort of like this, like this kind

407
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:25.119
of baseline understanding that the fans are
going to get a lot more inside references

408
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.559
than I think the fans actually did, I mean get it. Here's the

409
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:30.519
thing, whether they get it or
not. Do they want to? They

410
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.720
want to, and they're on the
road so much more, and they're going

411
00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:37.000
to brand new markets. You know, it's not like DCW Arena fans anymore.

412
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:38.359
And that was one thing Todd Gordon
said about Paul Hayman in his book,

413
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:41.160
like, really Paul got really uncomfortable
when they had to push beyond that

414
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.519
the greater Philly area in New York
and Queens. Like sure, he didn't

415
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:48.200
really want to go to these new
markets, but mostly because of the cost

416
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.200
involved. But also, you know, you're getting a crowd that's showing up.

417
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:53.119
Yeah, they might know ECW and
that it's violent and hardcore, but

418
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:56.839
you can't count on them getting all
those little fucking references, you know,

419
00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:00.759
right, you can't count I have
to. There's some stuff you can do

420
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.960
that continues the storyline or continues the
way you're doing things, but you also

421
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:07.440
have to have other stuff that that
sets it up for a new audience.

422
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:10.039
You know, you got to have
stuff that's going to grab them, you

423
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:11.519
know, surprise me. To your
point about sort of like, you know,

424
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.799
going as offensive as possible, that
surprised me. So South Park,

425
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.240
right, you want to talk about
something that defined the era that we're looking

426
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.880
at here this week, South Park, that's that's the limit tester. Sure.

427
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:26.640
And of course on Comedy Central,
all the swears would be bleeped.

428
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.759
Yeah they'd still say them, but
they'd be bleeded. But if you watch

429
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:32.759
it on demand now to your point
about you know, mature non mature streaming

430
00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:34.839
options, the focks are all over
the place, the ships are all over

431
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:38.559
the place. And I hadn't realized
this. I just happened to watch an

432
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:42.920
episode and I was like, this
is actually less funny because how how the

433
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:48.319
swears aren't bleaped you know, That's
the thing. Sometimes it really is like

434
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:53.160
sometimes the humor is in the fact
that it's it is bleeped out, you

435
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:57.319
know, because you know that it's
like they're breaking the fourth wall in away

436
00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:02.440
and there and their share wearing something
that was they said something so quotan,

437
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:07.559
you know, extreme, that we
can't actually play it on on the air.

438
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:08.839
And if the network doesn't feel it
needs to be bleeped, then why

439
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:12.599
should we feel it's riskue? Right, you know, it's interesting, but

440
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:18.160
all that is part of the soup
that is discussing ECW here at tlf But

441
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:22.000
say thoop data here you saying thoop
and I'm on the show. I need

442
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:26.440
to drink some thoop. Well,
perhaps Dusty, you can enjoy a ladle

443
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:32.640
from the cauldron of the TLFX games. Ah, we've unveiled the brackets and

444
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.319
we've amended the brackets after your feedback. No no, no, no,

445
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.599
no, no no not there said
no, that's what you thought. But

446
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:42.920
really there were issues there, There
were some those issues. Those issues pre

447
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:47.480
existed, yes, well they did, but they actually came into play in

448
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:53.480
regards to you know, the the
UH issues and the the gentlemen who are

449
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:56.640
participating in the thing. You know, again, I didn't make this clear.

450
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.759
I didn't really feel like it was
my place. But the warrior,

451
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.640
the lapsed warrior was indeed, you
know he was. He was injecting me

452
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.960
with growth hormone in order to do
a better impression of him. But I

453
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:11.119
did I he get caught and I
just, you know, I just had

454
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:15.559
too much pride and maybe I didn't
have enough self respect to bring it up

455
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.279
and and and and and you know, admit it. And uh maybe I

456
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:23.359
was groomed, you know, maybe
that was the case. Not making fun

457
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:29.000
of grooming, definitely not. Definitely
not uh definitely not with some of the

458
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:33.680
hairdos on this show. Klondike,
you know, Uh, I don't.

459
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.319
I don't know if this made mainstream
news. But he, you know,

460
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.920
he created a h laps Klondike created
this kind of maze, this glass maze

461
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.799
where anywhere he went in this may
this like kind of glass tunnel, a

462
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.559
maze thing on the record or show
that you just said, lapsed Klondike,

463
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:55.519
by the way, and now I'm
hungry, go ahead, right, you

464
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:59.759
know, And and I guess so
much, so many hookers had shipped on

465
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:03.480
it that he just couldn't get lost. So that happens. And then last

466
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:08.680
for a lapse Jr. He you
know, he smoked a bowl and in

467
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:14.039
the tub of and was a tub
of barbecue sauce. And he's still there.

468
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:18.640
Still he's still mar he's still marinating
for all I know, And he

469
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:19.640
could go on for a couple more
days, you know, and then they're

470
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:26.480
gonna put him the smoker. So
I smunny, funny. Let me tell

471
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.920
you, it's kind of funny.
Uh jr. Is the only kind of

472
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:37.200
meat that you smoke before you marinate. Oh my god. So if you

473
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:40.480
don't know what we're talking about,
if you haven't seen our social posts,

474
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:44.599
this will be the summer of the
TLFX games. Oh yes, we are

475
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.960
running a thirty two person tournament to
determine or is it sixty four? Aren't

476
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:51.160
even a sixty four? I think? Who is the greatest lapsed character of

477
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:56.319
all time? Okay? Judged by
you, the fans, and voted exclusively

478
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.119
on our x profile at the Lapsed
Fans, And you can expect on his

479
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:04.200
feed in the days and weeks to
come some promo battles from the participants in

480
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:10.160
each round matchup and hopefully that will
serve and in the spirit of an election

481
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:15.119
year right here in the United States
and really across the globe, the case

482
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.000
will be made. The campaign will
be made for not only what your memories

483
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:22.200
here as we celebrate TLFX, tell
you or the greatest lapsed characters of all

484
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:25.359
time? But what case can they
make in the here and now for being

485
00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:27.759
the best in the great yesty or
in the true sense of pro wrestling?

486
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:30.200
How can they convince you the other
guy isn't the guy as opposed to who

487
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:36.160
I am the guy? Right?
Right, so true. We hope you've

488
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.640
we hope you've taken a good look
at the brackets. We hope you've decided

489
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:44.039
your mental favorites. And we know
some people are already asking can you gamble

490
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:45.000
on it? I have no idea. I have nothing to do with that.

491
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.359
Now wouldn't make me mad if it
was an option, not that we

492
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:52.920
would partake. We hereby pledge not
to partake as people that are sort of

493
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.599
in the diver seat. But we
don't decide. We decide the brackets in

494
00:31:56.680 --> 00:31:59.039
terms of who was matched against two, but we're not going to decide who

495
00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:00.680
wins each round here. We are
really in you're It's going to be transparent

496
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:07.039
for all to see on X everyone
could vote for each matchup and who will

497
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:08.640
be standing at the end is the
greatest lapsed character of all time. It's

498
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:13.160
it really is interesting. I I
you know, I don't want to say

499
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:15.799
my my personal opinion just yet.
I want to see kind of how the

500
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:20.079
first the first brackets go along.
But I mean I definitely did play it

501
00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:22.119
out in my head and it was
hard. I mean, I texted you,

502
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:28.519
I told you it was kind of
hard in in in because it's not

503
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:30.640
like you know, I know,
I saw people like commenting on stuff that

504
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:32.720
like, you know, laps Nash
is going to book himself to win.

505
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:36.920
It's kind of like, well is
he? Though, Like, because you've

506
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:40.519
got to compare some characters to kind
of you know, what is what's what

507
00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:44.599
are their strengths. It's not the
person, it's the character. You know,

508
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:49.160
how do you put how do you
match up a you know, potentially

509
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:53.319
you know, a lapsed Nash versus
Pat Patterson fascinating? You know, it's

510
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.160
a fascinating you know, and it's
a possibility for the woman, for the

511
00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:00.160
for the end game. You know, it's a possibility right now. Who

512
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:04.880
knows. It's very interesting and also
you know, I mean how people are

513
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.920
voting, you know, are they
voting in terms of the impact that they've

514
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:15.319
had on the show. Are they
voting on the closeness to the actual person,

515
00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:21.880
are they voting on who knows?
It's a very I am very,

516
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:29.000
very intrigued. This is one of
those This is a weird masturbatory engagement that

517
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:32.079
I'm I'm oddly intrigued in. And
a big hat tip to the homie rusts

518
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:36.279
out there in the Solar System who
came to us with the proposal. It's

519
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:37.559
like, let's do this. It's
not like we just sat around and thought

520
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:42.079
about it. He came to us
with it months ago now, and we

521
00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:44.640
were like, yeah, let's really
take our time with this thing. Let's

522
00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:47.200
really yeah, you know, make
sure everyone is sort of dialed in and

523
00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:52.160
that people have time to think about
it and actually take their selection seriously.

524
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:54.799
It's part of you know, the
special ten year celebration content we've been trying

525
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:59.359
to give you an addition to you
know, dropping entrants and inductees, we

526
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:01.799
should say in the Lapsed Fan Hall
of Fame. Here in the main feed,

527
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:05.519
you've been hearing a lot of callbacks
to some great moments, as decided

528
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:08.519
by some of the most serious members
of the Solar System. You've been hearing

529
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:14.440
TLFX testimonials as listeners YEP talk about
why the show has meant something to them

530
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.880
and perhaps taken all together, why
we've been around for ten years. Yeah,

531
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:22.559
we definitely want to thank the folks
who've recently sent in testimonials. Kind

532
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.039
of a fresh round starting to happen
in the inbox, and if you have

533
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:29.719
an audio recollection that you'd like to
share, please do send it to us.

534
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:31.760
That mailbox is still wide open for
the remainder of twenty twenty four the

535
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:35.840
lapsed fan at gmail dot com and
we'll put the best ones up there for

536
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:39.480
everybody to hear. It's a celebration
and so the TLFX Games is going to

537
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:45.400
be fascinating. We're really proud to
announce that our friends Assage Beer Oh yeah,

538
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:49.840
go first, you go first,
are here and want in. They're

539
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:52.719
proud presenters of the TLFX Games tournament. They heard about it, they saw

540
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:54.519
the social activity, they said we
need to be a part of this,

541
00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:58.079
and we said, you're goddamn right, you do, yes, And so

542
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:01.039
we're proud to have a presenting sponsor
as well as we as we have the

543
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:05.519
only summer tournament that matters, the
real main event in pro wrestling of the

544
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:12.800
summer. I wanted to say that
there was some interesting I noticed some interesting

545
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:21.079
kind of comments on on the very
you know, main event like opening matches,

546
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:23.639
and I think that's great. That's
how tournament should be. I think

547
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:29.519
I think it's great because yeah,
I think what it does is it eliminates

548
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:34.679
people's expectations right from the get go. You know, like putting putting Patterson

549
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:42.159
and Vents together in a match that's
huge and savage and savage. Absolutely what

550
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:45.280
would people shortlist of the eight survivors
be, just put them put against each

551
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:47.760
other? So the tournament isn't just
like we'll just sit around and wait for

552
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:52.639
right exactly. So now there's you
know, I mean, it's it's it's

553
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.840
it's very you have to really think
about it to really think what it you

554
00:35:55.880 --> 00:36:00.960
know what it is. Uh,
And I I kind of played it out.

555
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.239
I came down to a to a
to a final, to a final

556
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:07.239
pairing and uh, I don't know, We'll see, we'll see what goes

557
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:08.320
along. And I'm all about this
on the fly. But one thing I

558
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:12.360
would encourage folks to do is they
make their decisions is not only to cast

559
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:15.000
their vote of course on X,
but also send us an email to the

560
00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:17.679
LAPS fan at gmail dot com explaining
the rationale behind why they chose one together.

561
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:22.360
I'd love to hear, yes,
what it was that people decided on

562
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:24.559
that would be so TLFX you know, Oh, one time Hogan said this,

563
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:29.039
One time Nash or Fritz or only
said this. I'd love to know

564
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:31.800
what resonated? What will comes straight
to mind when you were presented with this

565
00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:36.400
matchup, this this binary choice of
one or the other? What makes the

566
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:38.559
difference? And we'll yeah, well, if the missives are good enough,

567
00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:42.280
we'll share them too on the main
feed as we go through the TLFX games.

568
00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:44.239
But it's going to be a really
fun summer feature. I think,

569
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:46.719
something that the time is now for. We're going at it so hard that

570
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:49.960
it's like this is just a one
and done, you know, because like

571
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:53.679
there's we're not half asking anything.
Well, you mentioned the three characters that

572
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:58.719
fell off the bracket, but that's
to say nothing of who joined the bracket.

573
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:00.719
I mean the first thing, people
have lap editor right right right,

574
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:05.000
People said we want laps editor and
more like you know, because when I

575
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:07.039
thought about it at first, it
was like who when we say lapsed characters,

576
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:12.239
I thought of pro wrestlers or people
involved in the wrestling business. No,

577
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:15.559
it's all it's all the voices.
I mean, yeah, especially that,

578
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:19.000
but that's the only one that's like
truly not as I think. I

579
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:22.039
also think the Boston copp family too, they could have had a Yeah,

580
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:28.360
maybe it'll be like a what do
they call those know, it wouldn't be

581
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.960
you don't have the tournament the uh
the compensation round, if forget the term

582
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:35.679
for it. Yeah, but that's
that's more for the consolation round, the

583
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.199
consolation bracket. That's more for people
who were in it but you know,

584
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:39.719
didn't do well aspposed to people who
weren't in it at all. Maybe we

585
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:44.199
can have an off to the side
sort of the you know, yeah one

586
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:45.400
be kind of tournament for some of
your favorite I mean, honestly, I

587
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:49.360
was when I know, I know, listen, it's a it's a crazy

588
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:52.480
thing to even consider, but I
was actually kind of surprised that it was

589
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:55.719
only thirty two. Yeah, you
know, we could have easily had a

590
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:59.400
sixty four person See, I don't
think. I don't think easy because I

591
00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:02.280
game that out and I started running
out of names around like forty somethings.

592
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:07.239
But you know, there there there
are there are moments and names that there

593
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:09.880
are kind of one off things like
I mean, look, you know what

594
00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:16.920
there are there are a number of
of cittemaut only characters that have certainly made

595
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:21.880
their presence known. Laps George Lucas
know where we found you. We put

596
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:24.480
on their chief Brunch nowhere. I
mean, are we sitting here right now

597
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:30.920
calling for a UTC tournament expansion?
I mean, hey, I don't know.

598
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:34.800
I don't know if that enough have
been created, but I think they

599
00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:37.639
could have been included. Certainly bracket, you know, and just do a

600
00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:40.519
sixty man bracket. Let's do it. I don't know, I gotta think

601
00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:45.280
about it. I guess there was
a There was Lapstron Howard too, right,

602
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:50.320
we had Lapstron Howard Chief Brunch was
there? Chief Brunch? There we

603
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:57.360
go absolutely, I mean, come
on, Peterene could have a Sean Connery.

604
00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.519
Sean Connery, h I mean,
I mean, I'm gonna say that

605
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.360
who would win right away? Roger
Moore would win right away. I wouldn't

606
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:09.280
be so sure. You can do
a hell of you could do a hell

607
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:12.119
of a day. But our cat
I don't know if that was on ready

608
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:15.320
to rumb it or not. We
ain't even do one. I didn't even

609
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.519
doing that was just off the off
the cuff. There I mean, I'm

610
00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:22.480
just saying, you know what I
mean, Yeah, that's possibilities are endless.

611
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:24.079
Possibly he is a endless So we're
excited to bring this to you,

612
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:29.480
and we are confident, especially with
that round of feedback, that the must

613
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:32.480
the must includes are in there,
you know, laps editor, I wouldn't

614
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:35.760
say it was it oversaid. It
was more like a different category of character,

615
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:37.920
and it was like, Okay,
people want it, let's do it.

616
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:40.880
He's in. Yep, Colonel Rob
Parker, he should Yeah, he

617
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:45.719
should be in. Yeah, I
totally agree. So Helen Hart, and

618
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:46.719
that person's in approph for you of
the business, you know, sort of

619
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:50.800
like she was never a wrestler or
even I guess you could say wrestling personality,

620
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:53.159
but she's the only female in the
bracket too, and that's going to

621
00:39:53.159 --> 00:40:00.400
be interesting. It's crazy. So
we do want your enthusiastic participation. If

622
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:04.440
the response we've seen in social media
to thus far as any indication, that's

623
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:07.840
almost a guarantee the TLFX games taking
place. Hey right, fuck Paris,

624
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:14.320
Yeah, yeah right, these are
the games that matter in the summer of

625
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:17.280
two thousand and twenty four. So
excited for your participation. They're excited to

626
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:22.199
get your patronage over a Pro Wrestling
Teas dot Com slash the lapsed fan where

627
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:24.199
we continue unloading shwag. Maybe we
should do a TLFX game shirt. I

628
00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:28.880
think it might be appropriate to celebrate
the occasion. Oh for sure, we

629
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:30.400
definitely need something like that. Our
friends at Chopped Tea. You know what,

630
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:32.119
you know what we'll do, you
know what? You know what is

631
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:36.360
what we can do. We can
do a bracket games TLF games on the

632
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:38.320
front and then put the bracket on
the back. Aha, and then we

633
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:44.039
can do the semifinal bracket shirt where
we fill in the people of advance,

634
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:47.719
collect them all bitch all right?
Right that now, I've never forgot that.

635
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:54.280
Always getting assignments over there are a
graphic designer. Our friends at chop

636
00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:59.760
Teas always bringing that exclusive non T
shirt merchants, insane track jackets and Fanny

637
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:05.239
pass and Zubaz pants and mother fucker
the boy Dicky has really taking that merch

638
00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:07.280
game to another level, which it's
high time ten years in, wouldn't you

639
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:12.800
say? Absolutely? I mean there
are some there are some outfits that just

640
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:16.320
didn't you know, didn't get the
uh, don't get the love, you

641
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:20.159
know, from from other places,
which you know, makes total sense.

642
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:23.360
But I'm happy that they're finally getting
they're getting the they're getting me attention.

643
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:25.519
Can't see. I can't wait to
say that here out in the wild,

644
00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:30.199
like I said, Oh I stat
back lapstat or a fucking like hoodie or

645
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:34.159
a track jacket. I mean,
god, I can't wait. I know

646
00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:36.840
some great members of the Soloists have
already bought their ship, but you want

647
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:39.599
to check us out. Also on
chop teas we're on Cameo. If if,

648
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:43.239
if this is a season to deliver
a gift to the lapsed fan in

649
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:45.199
your life, that's certainly the way
to do it. Or if you just

650
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:47.280
want to have some fun and some
lap, you know, activate some lapsed

651
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:51.320
cannon. A lot of our characters
have come to life on Cameo. A

652
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:54.039
lot of the lapsed editor backstory happened
on Cameo, did it not? Mm

653
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:59.440
hmmm, oh god, yes,
we found out. We found it exactly

654
00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:04.079
where. Uh uh, we found
out where where he kind of got his

655
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:07.039
hatred. I hope you don't mind
me bringing up Cameo. Boss. Are

656
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:09.239
you still swimming in backlog? No, we're good, We're We're up to

657
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:13.679
date. Now I've I've been able
to kind of get back on back on

658
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:17.320
track with that. I've had quite
a few, uh kind of some funny

659
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:25.400
ones actually that I thought was really
hilarious. Uh uh, I guess someone,

660
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:30.119
I mean, it's is it a
let me see? Oh no,

661
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:30.920
never mind, I don't want to
say it's a private one. I'm not

662
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:32.920
going to say what it is.
So I'm glad I checked them. Brother,

663
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:37.000
brother, so sorry, sorry,
you don't get to know what that

664
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:42.639
one was. But I guess I
could say someone someone worked for a company

665
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:47.760
and they wanted they wanted laps events
to make a make a pass at them,

666
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:51.360
to bring them over to another to
w w E, which I thought

667
00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:54.480
was funny, so great, some
of the sickest ship you've ever heard.

668
00:42:54.719 --> 00:43:01.559
Oh yeah, let me see here, this one we have this someone wanted

669
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:07.039
someone wanted to labs snashed was an
mappy birthday and then and then uh,

670
00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:14.880
play a weird running joke with them. It's kind of hilarious. Yet you

671
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:16.599
want a lapse character to say something
that only your best friend will think is

672
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:20.920
funny, which we thought the whole
problem in the first place, and turned

673
00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:22.800
out to write the secret to the
whole podcast. Right, that's the you

674
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:27.199
know, that's where the that's where
it all matters that you know. No,

675
00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:29.119
it's been good, been good,
getting it, getting back on,

676
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:31.159
getting back on track, very good. So cameo dot com, Slash the

677
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:35.840
lapsed fan for the lapsed fan in
your life, and of course Patreon rock

678
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:37.199
and all summer long. We've got
a live call of the biggest party of

679
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:42.599
the summer, w W Summer Slam
coming up soon. An interesting blow by

680
00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:49.320
blow for those who realize that we
watch modern ww yeah under the cinematic exploding,

681
00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:52.239
I mean, Bond Journey unbelievable,
Oh something going on? What's going

682
00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:54.760
on? Tell me about that Bond? What does tell them about journey?

683
00:43:55.119 --> 00:44:01.440
What are they missing? Let me
tell you. So we're right now,

684
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:06.840
we are at the very we're close
to the end of the of the Roger

685
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:12.880
Moore era in our Bond journey.
And he he himself, legit, Roger

686
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:15.199
Moore not even laps Roger Moore.
Legit. Roger Moore has turned out to

687
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:21.760
be a real fucking gem. Like, who knew that Roger Moore was such

688
00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:27.599
a fucking my, My level of
respect for Roger Moore as just quadrupled.

689
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:30.760
We think we know workers in wrestling. This guy's a fucking worker. This

690
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:35.639
is a worker. Yeah yeah,
this guy. You can't. This guy

691
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:39.599
will always, this guy has you
can't. You can't one up. Roger

692
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:45.360
Moore, all right, he's gonna
fucking have you all tangled up before you

693
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:52.760
know it. He's a beast.
We did, we did the uh James

694
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:58.440
Bond and the Eight Pussies. Uh
this week Octopussy, Yes, you know,

695
00:44:58.599 --> 00:45:00.559
kind of a nice little surprise,
and got to learn a lot about

696
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:08.840
Hercules the Bear, our wrestling connection. Hercules the wrestling Bear. What a

697
00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:15.079
story, huh oh amazing trained by
Scottish grappler Andy Robin. Andy Robin,

698
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:16.800
yep, who I also learned a
lot about. But what a great story

699
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:22.119
about where these wrestling bears came from? Yeah, yep. And how this

700
00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:25.199
one right? They actually did it. You know, it's a it's a

701
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:30.039
commitment, it's a sacrifice, but
they did it right, and they created

702
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:36.079
a one of one of a kind
attraction who you know, could actually get

703
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:38.960
in and work a match. It's
a riot. It's an absolute riot what

704
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:44.920
they were able to do with with
with Herky the Bear, say sheated a

705
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:47.360
curiosity I've long had about how they
trained these beers to work and not turn

706
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:51.519
our trainers in the ring, and
yeah, or turn on a wrestler in

707
00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:53.039
the ring. And it's it's just
so great because the bear makes the briefest

708
00:45:53.079 --> 00:45:55.639
of cameos and octopussy, but that's
all the only thing we need under the

709
00:45:55.679 --> 00:46:00.119
cinema. As you know by now
absolutely, I mean, hey, you

710
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:04.639
know, I mean, I I'll
I'll come out and say it right now.

711
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:08.920
We're we're going back in time a
little bit on the next on the

712
00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:14.320
on the next episode, we're taking
a break from Roger Moore because looming,

713
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:19.519
as as has been alluded to for
the past several weeks, is this upcoming

714
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:24.320
Rogue Bond film that was that is
a remake of Thunderball, And it just

715
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:29.400
came to my attention that there is
a reason Thunderball qualifies front of the cinemat.

716
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:31.960
Did the Solar system step up and
pointed out? The Solar System stepped

717
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:36.519
up, pointed it out, and
it's that's the virgual circle we always talk

718
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:38.239
about. Folks. Yep, we're
in this together. Whether you realize it

719
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:45.440
or not. It's laps there indipity
because it's honestly, yeah, it would

720
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:47.960
have been great to have it in
terms of the actual timeline, but there's

721
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:55.199
no there's no better time to go
and do Thunderball than right before we do

722
00:46:55.880 --> 00:47:01.079
never seen ever again. So it's
very exciting. Wow. So I was

723
00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:07.119
a lot listen called on the fly
that was that was a that was a

724
00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:14.159
complete uh uh you know, uh, organic thing. So I'm very excited.

725
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:16.840
It's evolving in real time. Yep, totally, that's what's happening here.

726
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:21.480
And it's available to the Executive Producer
tier and above of course the Mote

727
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:23.760
tier as well. Over at patreon
dot com, Slash the Lapse Fan Wrestle

728
00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:28.639
Mamia still rolling out every Monday,
get back in the living room and carpet

729
00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:30.840
with your mom watching wrestling with you
in the same room. Whether that's good

730
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:36.639
or bad, there's no doesn't matter, no substitute for that. But we'll

731
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:39.800
come damn close for your Entreon dollar. It's great. It's great. I

732
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:44.280
can say you know, uh,
it's it's funny, you know, because

733
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:50.599
I can talk about you know,
it's it's recorded so far ahead just for

734
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:55.159
the sake of having stuff in the
can brother, uh, so that we're

735
00:47:55.239 --> 00:47:59.280
not you know, there's never a
week without it. You know. That's

736
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:01.719
always been my goals. Just keep
doing it so that there's no you get

737
00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:04.639
it so far ahead that you don't
have to worry, you have a strong

738
00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:10.320
buffer. And uh yeah, coming
up. They just they just what what

739
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:15.280
just came out? When this drops? What just came out was Hogan versus

740
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:21.159
Flair at Clash of the Champions twenty
eight I think it was nw O Hogan

741
00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:22.639
versus Flair. Wow, I remember
that clash. I think that's the final

742
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:25.480
clash. Ever, there's one more
after that, brother, I think,

743
00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:30.599
or one or two more after that. Yeah, and then oh God,

744
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:38.679
upcoming for for folks this coming Monday
on that fucking mote tier Kurt Angle versus

745
00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:43.440
Shane McMahon, King of the Ring
two thousand and one. What would your

746
00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:47.599
mom say about that match? Ask
yourself that and then tune in all that

747
00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:52.559
goodness happening at patreon dot com,
sash Man. It's the way podcasts justify

748
00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:57.119
their existence, and over ten years, we've certainly done just that thanks to

749
00:48:57.159 --> 00:49:00.719
your generous support and votes of confidence. Long may it continue, and long

750
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:05.719
wait, maybe shamelessly give credit to
those who pay over and above those who

751
00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:08.199
just sit there and bitch and don't
spend a dollar and expect us to cater

752
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:13.320
to them or to even really give
a shit about what they say. Yeah,

753
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:17.440
we continue serving those who serve us, and it's a wonderful It's a

754
00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:22.880
wonderful thing. So it's ECW.
It's living dangerously. Can you acquaint me

755
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:25.599
or orient me boss around the living
dangerously? I know there's a movie The

756
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:30.159
Year of Living Dangerously. What does
living dangerously mean to you? Separated from

757
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:36.159
wrestling? I've always wondered about that. If you don't know the movie,

758
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:37.880
then it's kind of a nonstar.
I mean, I know I do not

759
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:42.519
I've never seen the movie that I'm
familiar with the movie and the and the

760
00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:51.360
story. But I uh, in
terms of actually living dangerously, I guess

761
00:49:51.719 --> 00:50:00.239
living living each day to the brink
of death that that that would actually add

762
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:06.360
up quite a bit. Yes,
yeah, oh my god, it's it's

763
00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:09.440
one of the oldest ECW kind of
I mean, I guess living dangerously could

764
00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:13.480
also be living with Paul Hammond.
Well, of course, pouly dangerously is

765
00:50:13.480 --> 00:50:17.039
another thing I think of. But
living dangerously that's the one, The Year

766
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:22.760
of Living Nature, that's the one
where the the woman right, the woman

767
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:27.800
won an Oscar for playing a man. I see, yeah, yeah,

768
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:31.159
that's right, that's right. I'm
not sure that that that's part of what

769
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:35.400
they thought of when they start,
when they came back of Sigourney Weaver,

770
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:37.480
maybe were Linda Hunt. Now Linda
Hunt. Linda Hunt is the one who

771
00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:43.920
plays Billy Kwan and she won an
Oscar for for playing a man. Yep,

772
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:46.639
and uh, it's based on a
novel, so the so the the

773
00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:50.840
idea of Living Dangerously has some heritage
to it, but it's been long one

774
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:53.159
of ECW's. It long was one
of VCW signature shows, even before the

775
00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:57.800
pay per view days when they would
name the arena shows Living Dangerously it was

776
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:00.000
always a big one. And as
we talked about ninety nine being dangerously highlighted

777
00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.920
by Rob van Dam and the throes
of his great TV title reign with his

778
00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:07.519
best ECW opponent, most would say, in Jerry Lynn, here are much

779
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:13.159
different ECW. A lot of talent
is left, a lot of things that

780
00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:15.599
were going to be the next you
know, growth vector for ECW came up

781
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:19.960
lame, and as many talked about, by this point you started to see

782
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:23.280
up Paul Hayman lean in a talent
that more was like budget conscious than anything

783
00:51:23.320 --> 00:51:28.119
else. Paul's gift always was to
have some other star ready to go as

784
00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:31.239
soon as somebody bolted for WWF ANDWCW, which you always had to consider inevitable.

785
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:36.440
Though certainly Hayman around nineteen ninety nine
started finding the pressure to be too

786
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.000
significant, and he was offering huge
guaranteed contracts, not a huge, but

787
00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:43.119
huge relative to what you were accustomed
to making in the early days of ECW,

788
00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:45.119
and so we had to compete.
You know, you can't just go

789
00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:47.880
on pay per view and make these
stars and just lose them instantaneously like he

790
00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:52.639
was able to do. But suddenly
it seemed like the stars he had on

791
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:58.440
the bench were kind of like,
I don't know, further further back than

792
00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:01.119
usual in terms of the fans perceiving
them as ready for that spot. When

793
00:52:01.159 --> 00:52:04.719
the time came, a rhino kind
of came out of nowhere and was rocketed

794
00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:08.480
to the top. Steve Carino,
relative to the gestational phase, let's say,

795
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:12.559
of other ECW headliners, was kind
of fresh out of the gates.

796
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:15.320
He just really came into the company
and I believe ninety nine, maybe it

797
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:20.760
was ninety eight, but didn't have
much of a profile until suddenly they pushed

798
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:23.320
him strongly, and they talk about
how they felt their pushes came out of

799
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:27.239
nowhere too. They're grateful for them, but it happened kind of before they

800
00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:29.400
were ready. When suddenly someone pokes
him on the shoulder and says, you're

801
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:32.079
working with the dream and not Tommy
Dreamer. By the way, the roads

802
00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:37.639
brother, that's true, that dreaming
driven hard. And as I mentioned,

803
00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:42.519
Hayman's trying to keep talent under under
his thumb because now he's signing actual contracts

804
00:52:42.559 --> 00:52:45.519
that he's delivering these kinds of guarantees, and he's got a lawyer and he's

805
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:49.079
ready to at the very least try
to get a try to get a settlement

806
00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:51.400
out of one of the Big two, to get some cash flow going,

807
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:53.639
you know, dangle this contract.
We talked about this a bit in the

808
00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:57.800
Lapsed Funk Journey. One of you
know, as much respect and admiration and

809
00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:00.880
love the Terry Funk had for Paul
Hayman, the one thing he really held

810
00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:02.679
against him till the end was that
he stopped Saboo from getting a Big two

811
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:07.119
contract because he was signed to the
deal that was in two thousand. In

812
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:10.559
that short period of time WOW in
early two thousand, where Kevin Sullivan took

813
00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:15.320
the book over from Vince Russo,
and Kevin Sullivan played a good part in

814
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:17.559
bringing in Sabou to WCW for that
very short lived run in nineteen ninety five

815
00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:21.719
as well saw to it, you
know as Funk came in as well as

816
00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:23.800
as we talked about and lapsed Funk. Terry comes in at the beginning of

817
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:28.760
two thousand as well to WCW,
and Sabo was supposed to follow close behind,

818
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:30.599
but Paul Hayman said, no,
you've got a contract, you can't

819
00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:32.039
go. And it's like, okay, we're really going to do this,

820
00:53:32.239 --> 00:53:36.440
like you a voided the contract because
I was owed this for merchandise. Okay,

821
00:53:36.519 --> 00:53:39.119
we'll take me to court and you
know how that goes. So what

822
00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:44.639
he brought when Saboo sort of came
back after the the failed attempt to go

823
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:47.599
to w CW, Paul proposed that
Saboo job to Super Crazy, and we

824
00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:52.960
see Super Crazy become ECW Television Champion
in the tournament final in the main event,

825
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:57.360
Yes of Living Dangerously, So clearly
there were big plans for Super Crazy

826
00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:00.239
and he would go on to a
WW career as well, not hardly any

827
00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:04.880
English but somebody that just had great
flying skills and had kind of a unique

828
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:07.239
charisma for a lucha door. He
wasn't masked, He wasn't somebody that only

829
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:12.719
had charisma or the Ruskin fan base. He just I don't know something about

830
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:15.880
him. I think his example,
what I'm talking about somebody that they wouldn't

831
00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:17.360
have pushed to this level a year
ago when they had, you know,

832
00:54:17.480 --> 00:54:21.320
kind of higher profile talent under their
thumb. Somebody that would have certainly been

833
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:23.599
thriving in ECW, but not someone
that closes a pay per view hoisting the

834
00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:28.000
title. Yeah right, you know
the expectation the fans are going to behind.

835
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:30.760
At this point, he had a
wonderful series of matches with Tajury did

836
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:32.920
Super Crazy that kind of introduced him
and oriented him to the ECW fan base,

837
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:36.519
and we do see to Jury making
appearance on the show as well,

838
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:38.840
but that was about the extent of
it. Before suddenly he was he was

839
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:42.239
chasing the TV title and in the
idea of being you know, if you

840
00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:45.199
beat Saboo, that's even a bigger
deal. Sabo was not having any of

841
00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:50.519
that, So that's kind of a
symptomatic of the period of time we're talking

842
00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:54.039
about here in March of two thousand
for Extreme Championship Wrestling, the newcomers.

843
00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:59.360
He's building upper guys like kid Cash, Doring, and Roadkill. Briefly Amy

844
00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:01.840
Dumas, who go was on to
be lead. Oh oh yeah, she

845
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:07.800
started her first American gig. Really
was his miscongeniality as the valet, Adoring

846
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:08.960
and Roadkill. I don't know if
you knew that. I did not know

847
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:12.719
that she played. She's supposed to
be like a ring rat, basically,

848
00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:15.519
like a ditsy kind of spacey ring
rat, and she would like hang on

849
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:19.760
Dooring, and the idea was just
that Dooring fucked rats, and she was

850
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:23.400
like the best rat or the chief
rat. And when she bolted for WWF,

851
00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:25.719
that kind of left that gammick in
the cold. And then you see

852
00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:30.760
Electra sort of an attempt to fill
that in just not great Simon Diamond to

853
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:35.360
talented Definite. It's someone that they're
pushing really hard where they wouldn't have before.

854
00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:37.639
I don't think you know, friends
of Steve krenocw Anderson, Now,

855
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:40.719
these guys are talented workers, but
it just, yeah, it does seem

856
00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:45.159
like they're just really there's some desperation
going on. Yeah, yeah, sort

857
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:47.800
of like family and friends discount.
You know, it's like, where do

858
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:51.039
these guys come from? Oh,
they're tied to this guy. And maybe

859
00:55:51.079 --> 00:55:52.239
I was always the case in ease
W. I just felt like at this

860
00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:55.360
time, and maybe it's because it
was so well known the financial difficulties they

861
00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:59.440
were running into. When some guys
were going public with their frustrations about not

862
00:55:59.480 --> 00:56:02.000
getting paid on time, particularly after
they left ECW to go to w w

863
00:56:02.119 --> 00:56:05.800
F and WCW and try to explain
themselves, you know, right, that's

864
00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:08.320
the big U sold out crowd ECW. Right, it's like, well,

865
00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:10.800
I'm not getting paid, what would
you do seventy five dollars a night?

866
00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:15.039
Pay days you hear about back then, It's like that's you know, that's

867
00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:19.719
really that's really Hayman is really not
able to dangle big carrots. Besides,

868
00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:22.960
like you could be a star.
Yep. Yeah, at this point in

869
00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:27.679
time, he's still getting his speeches
and his raw wrong you know, cult

870
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:30.480
of personality thing, but it's not
I don't feel if it's quite working the

871
00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:32.559
way it used to work. And
I mean, yeah, when when you're

872
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:36.679
kind of like when you're kind of
fizzling, it can't help. But question

873
00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:38.159
is like, wait a minute,
is he just full shit? Or is

874
00:56:38.199 --> 00:56:44.320
he actually you know, is he
actually believe in this shit? Oh?

875
00:56:44.840 --> 00:56:47.000
It's that's the genius of Paul Hayman, as you can make both cases,

876
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:52.119
you know, and still somehow be
any closer to the truth. Sab Wou

877
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:53.639
put it this way in his book. Towards the end, ECW had lost

878
00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:57.360
a number of guys and new people
were taking their spots. The locker room

879
00:56:57.440 --> 00:56:59.800
kept changing, which was bad for
continuity. At one point, a new

880
00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:00.719
guy, Steve Carino, came up
to me and said, I know you

881
00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:04.840
don't like me, but I'm hoping
to change that. Wait, who the

882
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:07.800
fuck even are you? I replied. So those of the guys are starting

883
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:10.719
to come in, people that like
think people even know who they are,

884
00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:16.679
and then they don't. Tracy Smothers
or of course veteran of the game Seen

885
00:57:16.719 --> 00:57:22.119
it All was in ECW the Full
Blooded Italians gimmic. Hilariously, he gets

886
00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:24.159
released at this point in time where
leaves and and he's out there saying that

887
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:28.679
this is the writing's on the wall
here. They're bringing in talent that's cheap

888
00:57:28.760 --> 00:57:31.440
first and foremost. That seems to
be the primary consideration all of a sudden

889
00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:36.519
these days. As Danny Doring talked
about in a Great r of video shoot,

890
00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:39.519
I want to take this time here
to announce that Danny Doring least likely

891
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:42.719
candidate. I did not know this
was coming. I had not watched the

892
00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:46.000
shoot until preparing for this episode.
I mean, this guy is like Bob

893
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:52.320
Holly lovel shit talker. Really,
Danny Doring is the guy you want when

894
00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:53.800
you want to be sure that if
there's dirt on somebody, it's going to

895
00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:57.599
be it's gonna be said. Yeah, and he has his allies. But

896
00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:02.159
he shits on Hayman. He shits
on so many people, and it's tremendous.

897
00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:05.000
It's a guy who, you know, he didn't make it enough to

898
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:07.800
have to worry about who he's going
to offend by what he says. He's

899
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:10.360
more interested in making sure that when
he says something people hear it, and

900
00:58:10.400 --> 00:58:14.679
then it it's a dart to the
heart of motherfuckers who didn't do him right

901
00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:16.079
in his eyes, you know,
so far it sounds good to me.

902
00:58:16.159 --> 00:58:20.039
Paul Roma is another example. These
these are our people here at TL Left

903
00:58:20.199 --> 00:58:23.199
Yes, these are the people that
make wrestling fun to follow in your adulthood.

904
00:58:23.320 --> 00:58:28.000
The people that just just didn't quite
make it but saw the top guys

905
00:58:28.039 --> 00:58:31.199
in operation and are and are here
to report back. They're here to report

906
00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:34.880
back. Yeah, and they're here
to tell you that that this guy's a

907
00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:38.519
fucking asshole, this guy's a piece
of shit, this guy fucked me over.

908
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:44.400
Guy. I mean, all I
care about are people who remember all

909
00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:46.159
the guy did to me was like
roll his eyes once, and they bring

910
00:58:46.239 --> 00:58:52.039
that up to this day. Grudge
holders, Yes, grudge holders that we

911
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:57.559
could rename the podcast that, Yes, fucking tremendous. So I want grudge

912
00:58:57.559 --> 00:59:00.519
Holders highly recommend his or if it
a shooting interview, because it really orients

913
00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:02.960
you well with this time period in
e c W, because you know,

914
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:07.039
Danny Doring was a talented guy,
but I think he's also kind of symptomatic

915
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:10.360
of that kind of lessening of the
bar at ECW in terms of totally you

916
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:14.559
know, he's pushed really before you
would expect him to be that. There

917
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:16.960
isn't that acquaintance period with him,
like like like you know, Paul was

918
00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:21.280
so good at bringing guys along that
way to you really felt compelled to cheer

919
00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:24.239
for them and saw them as like
people who were rising above their their lot

920
00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:28.760
in life. You know. But
Dorring says in the shooting interview, when

921
00:59:28.760 --> 00:59:30.239
Taz left, it was like the
fucking dad left the house. Bubb and

922
00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:34.079
Devon were gone, Taz. It
was like the locker room police guys.

923
00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:36.719
After that, man, it was
a fucking zoo. I mean, you

924
00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:38.239
know, the place was a fucking
zoo. There were hookers back there,

925
00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:43.320
strippers doing blow all sorts of shit
going on backstage. I mean there was

926
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:46.360
fucking just rats galore. It was
like a fucking backstage rock concert. It

927
00:59:46.519 --> 00:59:50.679
was great and certain there we go. Sounds good to me. I mean,

928
00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:59.719
just come from the lying everywhere.
It's like it's like fucking a battle

929
00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:01.920
zone. And look these women,
bless their hearts, they're all not very

930
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:05.400
attractive either. That's the thing I
have to I know, I know,

931
01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:07.000
and even says that he shoots like, you know, I'm not saying these

932
01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:14.079
were like knockout women either, like
to beautiful women. Yeah, like you

933
01:00:14.199 --> 01:00:19.400
knows, as they're they're there to
serve a purpose, and they're coming to

934
01:00:19.480 --> 01:00:22.400
the show because there at a certain
point in their lives, right I mean,

935
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:24.559
they're coming to show the intention of
fucking wrestlers because they find themselves at

936
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:30.400
a certain and listen, they're they're
also listen. There's an empowering thing because

937
01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:35.039
they know that they can do this, and there's the closest they're going to

938
01:00:35.079 --> 01:00:37.199
get to be able to fuck a
celebrity. Yeah, right, is an

939
01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:42.679
e c W wrestler finishing on their
stomach. Let let that sick. Let's

940
01:00:42.679 --> 01:00:46.880
sink in for a moment, very
much. Fucking uh uh? What the

941
01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:52.039
Fuck's his name is? Sally Graziano? There he goes Sally Gratziano. Just

942
01:00:52.119 --> 01:00:57.400
imagine, just imagine having to fucking
straddle that motherfucker, all right, because

943
01:00:57.400 --> 01:01:00.800
I adn't even know why you're gonna
let him get on top of you fucking

944
01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:05.480
die? Can you imagine? Can
you imagine just like mounting, you know,

945
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:08.639
and mounting him, having to ride
business? Yeah? Now, let

946
01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:12.440
me let me ask you. Can
you imagine the food bill? Oh?

947
01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:15.760
This guy the takeout? I mean, he takes businesses out. He doesn't

948
01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:20.079
just order take it, He takes
them out. He takes them out exactly,

949
01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:28.519
are you kidding? I mean,
aw just demolishes businesses. Restaurants are

950
01:01:28.599 --> 01:01:31.400
like is actually the biggest regret,
Like they they have to close up because

951
01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:37.599
this guy just totally destroyed everything they
had built, built, built for you,

952
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:39.360
built up for themselves. You ever
be on like DoorDash, you're scrolling

953
01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:42.719
and suddenly you see like a four
hundred dollars thing, Like what is this?

954
01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:45.440
It's like a family, you know, it's like a party. That's

955
01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:52.119
what he'd order. That's a snack
for him, just an animal. I

956
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:57.920
can't imagine what it took to keep
him fed. I mean, bless a

957
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:00.679
sense of sure, just have I
mean, God, please bless his heart.

958
01:02:00.679 --> 01:02:07.280
God knows what's going on with that
ticker, all right, Like just

959
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:09.719
a people would have said the same
thing about ECW if it was a publicly

960
01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:21.239
traded company two back then. So
to the point, like Taz leaves,

961
01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:24.559
we need a bully wrestler, tough
guy, demolisher, Rhino. You know,

962
01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:29.039
it's like Rhino's brought in for that
Taz spot, that unbeatable task spot,

963
01:02:29.079 --> 01:02:31.039
and they push him that way and
he starts killing everybody. Hayman's like

964
01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:35.400
it's almost like Hayman is so desperate
to plug holes that like he starts seeing

965
01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:38.199
things in talent that that's kind of
forced, you know what I mean,

966
01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:42.199
just forced to do a little bit. It's not it's not these guys don't

967
01:02:42.199 --> 01:02:44.559
deserve it, but it's forced a
little bit more than I think the ECW

968
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:45.840
fan was accustomed to. That's my
thesis. I could be wrong about this,

969
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:49.679
but that's how I remember feeling.
Yep, when this time period of

970
01:02:49.719 --> 01:02:52.480
VCW started to set in, post
really post Taz leaving more than anything else,

971
01:02:53.480 --> 01:02:55.719
and they brought in Steve Carino.
Well, they didn't bring him in

972
01:02:55.719 --> 01:02:59.280
expressly for this. He came in
before they decided this would be a good

973
01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:00.760
role for him. But one of
the first sort of roles of prominence they

974
01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:05.599
gave Steve Krino was the mouthpiece for
Rhino because Rhino wasn't a great talker,

975
01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:07.800
or wasn't perceived to be a great
talker, and didn't really have a gimmick

976
01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:10.119
where he should talk a whole lot. I mean, Tas hardly talked at

977
01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:15.320
all when he was building his legend
in ECW. He would eventually you know

978
01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:20.119
do he was a very silent wrestler, Okay relative to other guys. Yeah,

979
01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:22.679
And so Karna was supposed to be
doing the big promos for this guy,

980
01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:24.079
and he was a great talker,
so they brought him in. But

981
01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:27.639
that would be a problem because the
locker room, according to Krino, started

982
01:03:27.639 --> 01:03:30.960
to perceive him as a manager and
not a worker. First. Of course,

983
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:35.159
one of the big problems Corrino points
to in his r A video shoot

984
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:37.880
interviewer on one of them. I
think this one was from twenty oh one,

985
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:40.639
shortly after ECW folded. Was it
Lance Storm once made a remark that

986
01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:45.239
he's a manager in tights. That
would really pissed him off. It was

987
01:03:45.320 --> 01:03:50.159
land Storm talking shit. Oh yeah, Well, Lance is a guy who,

988
01:03:50.320 --> 01:03:53.000
like you know, he doesn't think
he's a shit talker because he's smarter

989
01:03:53.119 --> 01:03:55.920
than the rest of the locker room. He thinks he's he thinks it doesn't

990
01:03:55.960 --> 01:03:59.840
count as talking shit because if you
confront him, he'll make an edge,

991
01:03:59.840 --> 01:04:01.880
he'll make an intellectual case for it. It's like, now that you're still

992
01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:05.440
a shit talker, dude, you're
still talking shit, which is great.

993
01:04:05.599 --> 01:04:10.320
I mean, I love that about
Landstorm. That's he judges people. Of

994
01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:13.079
course, he still has a podcast
Brian Alvarez and judges people all the time.

995
01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:15.960
Of course it's usually pretty fun to
listen to, but that's kind of

996
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:18.960
the those are sort of the frictions
that are starting to get introduced as this

997
01:04:19.039 --> 01:04:24.920
sort of generation generational line gets crossed
in ECW, as guys get lured away.

998
01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:27.880
Sandman himself got lured away. We've
gotten a taste, haven't we,

999
01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:30.480
Boss of Hardcore Hack in WCW.
Oh, yes we have. It wasn't

1000
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:34.280
that money in the bank. No, I don't think he was on that

1001
01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:38.599
show. Yeah, and he came
back shortly after ECWA, back on TNN.

1002
01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:40.920
One of the great moments in ECW, and some may say the greatest

1003
01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:44.280
sad Man moment, was when he
returned to the arena after going to WCW.

1004
01:04:44.679 --> 01:04:46.039
That's one of thing about ECW fans. They screened you sold out when

1005
01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:48.800
you left, but that just meant
there were ten times more excited when you

1006
01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:53.159
came back. Even when Task came
back just briefly, when he was still

1007
01:04:53.239 --> 01:04:56.039
under WWF contract. We'll get to
this in more detail later, but do

1008
01:04:56.079 --> 01:04:59.159
you remember this WWF it signed him. He debuted January two thousand, Royal

1009
01:04:59.239 --> 01:05:01.360
Rumble, but then he it was
back DCW to win the title. And

1010
01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:04.480
I feel like I feel like we
I feel like we did a show.

1011
01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:06.559
We did that show. Yeah,
we definitely have talked about this whole thing.

1012
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:09.760
We'll talk about it all again.
But I felt like we actually did

1013
01:05:09.800 --> 01:05:13.920
it. Uh well, we didn't
do that show because that the show where

1014
01:05:13.960 --> 01:05:15.840
he comes back to ECW and beats
Mike Austin was not televised. It was

1015
01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:17.880
a house show. Oh okay,
okay, and then they get back to

1016
01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:21.119
the arena and he loses a Tommy
Dreamer And we've never done an ECW arena

1017
01:05:21.199 --> 01:05:26.840
show before. I thought we saw
him on a show after he had gone

1018
01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:30.599
to WCW auctionall on pay per view
to ww F you mean, yeah,

1019
01:05:30.199 --> 01:05:33.559
I'm almost certain we did talk about
it. You know what it probably was.

1020
01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:39.079
It was probably Guilty Charged in nineteen
ninety Anarchy Rules nineteen ninety nine,

1021
01:05:39.079 --> 01:05:41.960
which is the show where he loses
the title and a triple threat to Mike

1022
01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:45.119
Austain and Masato Tanaka and then walks
off for the final time and they show

1023
01:05:45.119 --> 01:05:46.400
oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's that's what thank you to remember that.

1024
01:05:46.480 --> 01:05:48.679
So we probably yeah, we went
on to follow up like what it

1025
01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:51.559
was, sort of like in a
PostScript fashion. It wasn't a show of

1026
01:05:51.679 --> 01:05:55.159
him winning the title. It was
sort of like it, Yeah, we

1027
01:05:55.199 --> 01:05:58.159
did it. We did do anarchy
rules. Yeah, that's that's almost definitely

1028
01:05:58.199 --> 01:06:00.800
what it was. So so Folks
says, let's of that episode. Might

1029
01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:02.960
hear refrains here and echoes here,
But the reason it comes all back is

1030
01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:06.639
because this is Mike Ausom's final pay
per view appearance as ECW World Champion,

1031
01:06:08.199 --> 01:06:11.639
and what happens from there is is
very telling us. To me, we

1032
01:06:11.719 --> 01:06:13.880
have talked. I guess we did. We did a heat wave two thousand

1033
01:06:13.960 --> 01:06:15.840
as well. Oh, maybe it
came up then, sure, six years

1034
01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:19.039
ago, I forgot six years ago. Six years ago we did that show.

1035
01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:21.719
That's when Van Dam had come back. I think he'd recovered. Now,

1036
01:06:21.800 --> 01:06:26.519
no, he returned into guilty charge
against Jerry Lan. Yeah. You

1037
01:06:26.599 --> 01:06:30.559
know what, I don't care that
they're we're in that fortunate position. You

1038
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:33.159
don't have to worry about whether you
care. It's it's it's just it's just

1039
01:06:33.320 --> 01:06:39.199
absolutely I mean, it's insulting.
Do you know who's also putting money in

1040
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:44.480
at this time to ECW acclaim.
Oh yeah, there's there's an acclaim.

1041
01:06:44.519 --> 01:06:47.519
All right. There's a moment on
the show where they show, you know,

1042
01:06:47.599 --> 01:06:50.679
footage of the game of Joey Styles, the character in the game Wrestling

1043
01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:56.320
don Kallis Cyrus the virus, and
and they talked about the graphics being so

1044
01:06:56.519 --> 01:07:00.559
realistic, and I mean, you
know, they probably you know, I

1045
01:07:00.599 --> 01:07:03.760
don't. I don't know actually if
they if they would be even then,

1046
01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:14.000
I mean, I know the the
engine was certainly the Attitude and war Zone

1047
01:07:14.039 --> 01:07:16.519
games from w w F, right
from w w you know, it definitely

1048
01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:21.800
was that same game engine. But
I I don't know if I ever thought

1049
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:27.519
they looked that realistic. No,
you know, well Blockie and Ship,

1050
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:31.320
Yeah, I was not a fan
then and uh yeah, but to me

1051
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:34.280
that that exemplifies E c W right
there. And again, why would it

1052
01:07:34.280 --> 01:07:38.440
trying to be out there looking for
wrestling game licensee after having those w w

1053
01:07:38.559 --> 01:07:43.280
F games, WWF had jumped to
where they jumped that year. I think

1054
01:07:43.360 --> 01:07:47.599
they just take had or No the
year before ninety nine t K T K

1055
01:07:47.679 --> 01:07:55.480
O and uh uh ux was it
UX and t HQ What I say,

1056
01:07:57.840 --> 01:08:00.360
I am losing my mind. No, that's that's not how I want to

1057
01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:02.559
make the HQ. Yes, but
but Wrestling in two thousand was the first

1058
01:08:02.679 --> 01:08:05.679
w F game on t HQ.
Right, Yes, and that came out

1059
01:08:05.679 --> 01:08:10.159
in ninety nine. Okay, ninety
nine got it and then no Mercy,

1060
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:13.559
of course, no mercy, and
then they took that away from the w

1061
01:08:13.719 --> 01:08:16.800
which is an an underplayed aspect of
the w CWWW four. I know,

1062
01:08:17.319 --> 01:08:21.760
I know, I agree, and
you know they were supposed to be another

1063
01:08:21.800 --> 01:08:27.159
one, you know, like that. I didn't know that there was supposed

1064
01:08:27.159 --> 01:08:30.439
to be I don't have really heart
to fold in that possibility. I believe

1065
01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:40.479
it was called WWF backlash. I
believe that it was uh, and it

1066
01:08:40.600 --> 01:08:45.640
was going to be yeah, they're
going to add yeah, yeah, non

1067
01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:53.680
existent unfinished N sixty four follow up
too, and there was going to be

1068
01:08:54.239 --> 01:08:57.880
uh. I think they were going
to have Helen to sell or something like

1069
01:08:57.920 --> 01:08:59.920
that. They're want to add Helen
to sell to the to the game.

1070
01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:04.479
But because GameCube they were come up
with game Cube, they they they nixed

1071
01:09:04.520 --> 01:09:11.720
it. That could have been it
and tiked two K got it right.

1072
01:09:13.119 --> 01:09:16.840
No, No, TSQ still TSQ
held it for up until the two K

1073
01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:24.319
got it in twenty fourteen, twenty
thirteen they had in twenty thirteen they took

1074
01:09:24.399 --> 01:09:30.720
up the It was THHQ and US
that had it for I could be wrong.

1075
01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:38.000
They had the whole smack down and
SmackDown versus Raw games and then the

1076
01:09:38.199 --> 01:09:41.199
WAT number games. It could be
wrong, but it doesn't matter. The

1077
01:09:41.279 --> 01:09:45.560
two take t they TK two K, my on two K took it over,

1078
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:48.920
but W two K fourteen was the
one where they took it over.

1079
01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:54.600
Got it? And what did you
think about the uh the CW game?

1080
01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:57.640
You never played it? Oh?
Fuck that? No, I didn't even

1081
01:09:57.880 --> 01:10:00.319
you know what, honestly, if
you played, if you played Arizona,

1082
01:10:00.359 --> 01:10:01.960
is the same exact thing, all
right, I bet you'd ten dollars.

1083
01:10:02.039 --> 01:10:05.560
I didn't even fucking know that existed. But those guys were kind of,

1084
01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:09.159
you know, looking for a new
player in the wrestling space who's a huge

1085
01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:12.560
part of their revenue of course,
or a huge significant you know, you

1086
01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:15.600
can't just leave the wrestling category on
the table because WWF leaves you high and

1087
01:10:15.720 --> 01:10:19.399
dry. So they ended up putting
so much money in ECW as kind of

1088
01:10:19.439 --> 01:10:23.279
like a co promotional deal that they
ended up taking, according to Scott Williams

1089
01:10:23.319 --> 01:10:26.479
Great book on the History of VCW, a fifteen percent stake in the company.

1090
01:10:27.119 --> 01:10:29.920
A lot of this became known because
when ECW filed for bankruptcy in two

1091
01:10:29.920 --> 01:10:31.560
thousand and one, a lot of
the court papers indicated who was owed money.

1092
01:10:32.239 --> 01:10:34.399
That's something you have to do in
bankruptcy court, of course, at

1093
01:10:34.399 --> 01:10:38.960
a claim like own so much,
and the documentation indicating and they actually,

1094
01:10:39.119 --> 01:10:42.279
you know, owned a part of
ECW. I don't think it was necessarily

1095
01:10:42.399 --> 01:10:44.680
known at the time how much money
a claim is putting in. But when

1096
01:10:44.680 --> 01:10:48.039
you hear Joey Styles on this broadcast
make this constant reference to the video game

1097
01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:51.439
really sort of shilling it, I
mean, it starts to make sense.

1098
01:10:51.439 --> 01:10:56.800
I mean, they're they're financing the
operation as our other sources, as we'll

1099
01:10:56.840 --> 01:10:59.880
talk about. But according to the
Scott Williams book, a claim put its

1100
01:10:59.920 --> 01:11:03.680
Moneyworreds Hopes were wiring ECW three hundred
thousand dollars between May and August of nineteen

1101
01:11:03.720 --> 01:11:08.119
ninety nine, before the two companies
even finalized their deal, and under the

1102
01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:11.439
agreement, Acclaim would pay for its
fifteen percent of ECW with a series of

1103
01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:15.399
two hundred and fifty thousand dollars payments
until east W had received one point five

1104
01:11:15.640 --> 01:11:20.600
million dollars Jesus one point five million
dollars put into ECW by a claim during

1105
01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:24.840
this time period as part of the
Oh my God, did they know what

1106
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:27.840
they were getting into. No.
I think they felt like that to keep

1107
01:11:27.880 --> 01:11:31.520
ECW live so their video game would
actually sell copies. You know, they

1108
01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:35.640
probably had some math somewhere where they're
like, you know, if ECW goes

1109
01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:40.000
out of business, it's worse than
if we don't, you know, like

1110
01:11:40.119 --> 01:11:44.520
we'll sell enough games to justify this
money we're pumping W based on wwif games

1111
01:11:44.560 --> 01:11:46.520
we sold, That's what I imagine
would be their psychology. They'd be wrong

1112
01:11:46.520 --> 01:11:49.239
about that. I don't know if
the game was a failure necessarily, but

1113
01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:53.920
it's not going to be good if
there's no TV show to push this game.

1114
01:11:55.079 --> 01:11:57.640
And then, according to Scott Williams, acclaim poured another three hundred and

1115
01:11:57.680 --> 01:12:00.800
fifty grand into ECW and January and
February already of two thousand Boss right before

1116
01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:05.079
Living Dangerously because, as Scott Williams
wrote, Hayman had no other way of

1117
01:12:05.119 --> 01:12:10.039
even covering his payroll for the talent
when he was trying to build up the

1118
01:12:10.119 --> 01:12:12.880
upcoming EACW One Night's Stand. In
June twenty oh five, we find out

1119
01:12:12.880 --> 01:12:16.319
from the bankruptcy filings Vince McMahon himself
Boss Yes, had made five hundred and

1120
01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:23.079
eighty seven thousand, five hundred dollars
worth of loans to ECW. You know,

1121
01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:25.800
Paul then knew that might back.
Yeah, that's what people say,

1122
01:12:25.880 --> 01:12:29.920
like One Night's Stand and the whole
revolution and a resurrection rather of VCW intellectual

1123
01:12:29.960 --> 01:12:32.000
property in O five, it was
just Nce trying to make that money back

1124
01:12:32.039 --> 01:12:35.239
on the loan. It wasn't him
trying to make much profit on its own.

1125
01:12:35.319 --> 01:12:38.720
And by the time he was done
with the WW version of ECW,

1126
01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:42.199
no one's chant in ECW anymore.
No, not at all that amazing.

1127
01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:47.520
I mean, I wasn't to begin
with. But right, let's see McMahon

1128
01:12:47.520 --> 01:12:51.640
made that sizeable loan Williams rights to
HHG. That was the that was the

1129
01:12:51.800 --> 01:12:58.239
name that ECW was incorporated under and
its nine days AHHG in summer two thousand.

1130
01:12:58.399 --> 01:13:00.840
Okay, So, according to Scott
Williams and the bank see paperwork,

1131
01:13:00.920 --> 01:13:03.880
Vince in the summer of this year
living dangerously makes a big loan to ECW

1132
01:13:04.039 --> 01:13:08.680
to keep it afloat. And apparently
that was done as part of the deal

1133
01:13:08.840 --> 01:13:14.600
to negotiate going to TNN keeping the
wrestling property that was on TNN alive.

1134
01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:17.479
Wrong enough so that when he came
in there was, you know, someone

1135
01:13:17.479 --> 01:13:20.800
of a smooth transition. I suppose
would be the thought there part of the

1136
01:13:20.840 --> 01:13:25.640
deal, right. But I'll tell
you what, I want this to go

1137
01:13:25.760 --> 01:13:29.640
easy. I want this to be
simple. I'll give you this money,

1138
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:34.640
but I'm taking your slot bound believable. That's so, that's so like mob

1139
01:13:34.720 --> 01:13:38.800
mentality. You know, yes,
yeah, come in with a helping hand,

1140
01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:42.760
only when you're under deep distress,
and the terms you agree to leave

1141
01:13:42.800 --> 01:13:45.520
you with nothing. In the end, he almost would have been better just

1142
01:13:45.560 --> 01:13:48.840
to go out of business than to
be beholden. But you know, people

1143
01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:51.680
who got on the wrong side of
Paul, or people who decided Paul was

1144
01:13:51.840 --> 01:13:55.840
at the end of the day just
a piece of shit definitely saw a greater

1145
01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:00.800
design at work. When Paul actually
goes over to WWF, you know,

1146
01:14:00.079 --> 01:14:03.920
they're yeah, interesting, yep.
Was he fed his own nest the whole

1147
01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:06.960
time? How far back does this
go? Of course? Anything about al

1148
01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:11.079
Snow and others going down there at
ECW when they were floundering in WWF and

1149
01:14:11.119 --> 01:14:14.359
never quite getting cut from their w
WF contracts but basically being sent to ECW

1150
01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:17.720
and getting off mention the whole,
the whole fucking uh. You know,

1151
01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:24.880
the whole ECW invasion ninety seven to
show great example, don't a great example.

1152
01:14:27.640 --> 01:14:30.800
So yeah, this is this is
all taking shape in real time.

1153
01:14:30.560 --> 01:14:32.560
This is the shift in the industry. At ECWS in the middle of it,

1154
01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:36.119
they try to make a move to
USA, but eventually Barry Diller,

1155
01:14:36.159 --> 01:14:39.520
I think it was decided at USA
network that if we can't have the number

1156
01:14:39.520 --> 01:14:41.640
one wrestling company in the world on
our network, we're not gonna have wrestling

1157
01:14:41.640 --> 01:14:44.039
on this network. This is redgau
You're damn right, You're damn right.

1158
01:14:45.399 --> 01:14:50.560
Fuck it. Williams also right at
the ECW Hardcore Recket video game was the

1159
01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:56.079
number two selling game on PlayStation.
Interestingly enough, Jack puts a PlayStation on

1160
01:14:57.199 --> 01:15:00.880
Tony DeVito's balls and hits it with
a crutch on the show and number six

1161
01:15:00.920 --> 01:15:04.680
and Nintendo sixty four for the week
of February thirteenth to the nineteenth, which

1162
01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:09.479
means the game sold over six hundred
thousand units, an amazing total. I

1163
01:15:09.520 --> 01:15:12.640
think this is from the observer since
ECW reaches just under one million homes per

1164
01:15:12.680 --> 01:15:15.079
week for its main show on TNN, so actually that is a pretty impressive

1165
01:15:15.159 --> 01:15:18.239
number. All he's considered in that
context, you might see why I claim

1166
01:15:18.239 --> 01:15:21.720
would see fit see it in their
business interest to make sure ECW could continue

1167
01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:26.479
as a going concern. And according
to you know the paperwork and what Scott

1168
01:15:26.520 --> 01:15:28.560
Williams wrote in his book, by
the time it was all said and done,

1169
01:15:28.600 --> 01:15:30.720
Paul Hayman through family trust funds.
Remember his father is a very successful

1170
01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:36.319
lawyer. Three point seventy five million
dollars of his own family's money went into

1171
01:15:36.399 --> 01:15:43.079
keeping ECW rolling for as long as
it did. It's unbelievable you can afford

1172
01:15:43.119 --> 01:15:45.399
to be a creative genius with that
kind of a parachute to catch up.

1173
01:15:45.399 --> 01:15:48.720
Of course, that's that's kind of
wrestling. That's always what we've always said.

1174
01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:56.279
Wrestling needs, you know, a
money that you that is just disposable,

1175
01:15:56.479 --> 01:16:00.159
right, right, You can't take
the risks that it takes to to

1176
01:16:00.720 --> 01:16:04.319
strike on something that works in wrestling
without being able to fall flat on your

1177
01:16:04.399 --> 01:16:08.760
ass and not be destitute. There's
if you're going to be a profitable wrestling

1178
01:16:08.800 --> 01:16:13.239
promoter, like you have to say
so small that it almost like has a

1179
01:16:13.279 --> 01:16:15.800
shelf life in it of itself.
You basically can only go as far as

1180
01:16:15.840 --> 01:16:19.000
E CW WAN basically, right,
and then you collapse under the weight of

1181
01:16:19.079 --> 01:16:21.960
national TV and trying to keep trying
to keep talent. It's not unlike what

1182
01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:27.000
happened to Jim Crockett Ale or you
or you collapse under the weight of of

1183
01:16:27.159 --> 01:16:30.600
Sally Graciana. So the last TNN
show for ECW was in October of two

1184
01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:35.079
thousand, so there's actually a bleed
over points ros started in September, but

1185
01:16:35.399 --> 01:16:41.840
Vince willing to give a little waiver
to the exclusivity thing, and that would

1186
01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:44.880
come to bite them because so they
watched, so they would they weren't the

1187
01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:46.560
same time for a moment. Yeah, they were on. Yeah. I

1188
01:16:46.600 --> 01:16:49.640
think there was a few weeks where
ECW is still on TNN on Friday nights

1189
01:16:49.640 --> 01:16:51.960
and Rob was on Monday nights.
I'd just like a week or two.

1190
01:16:53.039 --> 01:16:59.279
Wow, that's crazy. Yeah,
that is pretty wild. So Wan So,

1191
01:16:59.319 --> 01:17:00.960
I don't know I ever talked about
this, you know, did I

1192
01:17:01.000 --> 01:17:06.039
ever? So? Where I was
when they made the turnover? I was.

1193
01:17:06.600 --> 01:17:14.840
I used to for three years I
did. I did workshops film and

1194
01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:21.920
television and acting workshops up in place
in Maine, way up you know,

1195
01:17:23.159 --> 01:17:30.159
up Rockport, Maine. Oh,
it's like way up there. And it

1196
01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:34.159
was in the fall of two thousand, the last time I went up there

1197
01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:45.000
for I was doing four one week
workshops and they were all consecutive. So

1198
01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:51.439
I was up there for a month
and uh I and I knew that Raw

1199
01:17:51.560 --> 01:17:55.640
was changing, and I also knew
that was like stone coall Steve Austin was

1200
01:17:55.680 --> 01:17:59.239
coming back around the same time for
the first episode, you know, for

1201
01:17:59.239 --> 01:18:02.840
the first episode, right, So
I knew I needed to have I don't

1202
01:18:02.840 --> 01:18:05.399
know if they had if they gave
me a TV in my room or not,

1203
01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:09.640
but I needed to get a TV
and I needed to get a VCR.

1204
01:18:10.239 --> 01:18:14.720
And I remember I got all this
stuff so I could Maybe I didn't

1205
01:18:14.720 --> 01:18:19.800
get a TV, but I definitely
got a VCR so that I could so

1206
01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:26.159
that I could record. Wow,
stone Cold coming back amazing. That's why

1207
01:18:26.439 --> 01:18:29.079
that's why they brought him back,
because that was like a card they could

1208
01:18:29.079 --> 01:18:31.760
play to be sure that people would
make it a point to find them on

1209
01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:34.439
the new network. That was That
was wild. You think about Rob being

1210
01:18:34.479 --> 01:18:40.039
on the USA since nineteen eighty three
at that point in time, well,

1211
01:18:40.119 --> 01:18:43.960
it was weird when they went back
to USA. You know, there are

1212
01:18:43.960 --> 01:18:47.640
a lot of odd things about the
whole It's It's weird because like TNN BES

1213
01:18:47.680 --> 01:18:53.039
became that thing, and I was, you know, you were kind of

1214
01:18:53.760 --> 01:18:57.239
it just I don't know, it
just felt okay, this is the way

1215
01:18:57.239 --> 01:19:00.079
because I remember being when I heard
about that, I was like, what

1216
01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:02.520
the fuck? Why are they going
to the National Network? Not knowing that

1217
01:19:02.760 --> 01:19:10.479
they were changing their whole you know
brand. Yeah, they called it the

1218
01:19:10.600 --> 01:19:14.760
National Network the National Network and actually
reimagine the logo in the style of the

1219
01:19:14.880 --> 01:19:17.960
w WF Attitude scratch logo. I
mean that was only for when w was

1220
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:24.159
on. Tell you I won't say
that would be when that's right exactly.

1221
01:19:24.279 --> 01:19:26.439
The only reason you know that is
because you know you wouldn't know that is

1222
01:19:26.479 --> 01:19:30.880
because but I think they had a
more more blocky instead of the scratch.

1223
01:19:30.920 --> 01:19:34.239
I think the scratch was exclusive for
when raw was on the new TNN.

1224
01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:40.279
The new TNN We we Know Popp
was that when it was yeah, we've

1225
01:19:40.319 --> 01:19:44.239
got pop pop, We've got pop
right, And I don't know where Spike,

1226
01:19:44.279 --> 01:19:45.159
I don't know where, I don't
know where MA is, but I

1227
01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:49.039
guess they get pop at least a
colony is ending. And that's kind of

1228
01:19:49.079 --> 01:19:53.760
like the history of Spike and comeback
sports. And its predecessors like you c

1229
01:19:54.000 --> 01:19:56.680
WS just fuck you on the way
out, WWS just fuck you on the

1230
01:19:56.680 --> 01:20:00.119
way out. And remember there was
some sure they announced Raw was canceled for

1231
01:20:00.279 --> 01:20:04.000
Raw got into negotiations so that they
lost all the leverage because everyone had negotiated

1232
01:20:04.039 --> 01:20:06.640
with knew that the current home of
the show didn't want them back, and

1233
01:20:06.720 --> 01:20:12.119
they announced it publicly. There was
the show now where Fince had to like

1234
01:20:12.239 --> 01:20:15.840
approve show notnes wrong word, but
approved Ultimate Fighter coming on after Raw with

1235
01:20:15.920 --> 01:20:20.560
US leading to the UFC's explosion because
he had exclusivity for what would be considered

1236
01:20:20.640 --> 01:20:25.880
combat sports I suppose on the cable
station. And it's that long history we

1237
01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:28.359
see it here, we're going to
talk about it, which like Spike slash

1238
01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:32.399
TNN, it's always like the people
leaving the station from the wrestling of the

1239
01:20:32.520 --> 01:20:36.199
MMA side say fuck those guys or
those guys were those guys did as dirty

1240
01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:39.039
and them saying I don't know what
you're talking about. We saw it with

1241
01:20:39.159 --> 01:20:45.479
TNA. Remember how in the end
everyone was cavetching about how you know Dixie

1242
01:20:45.680 --> 01:20:48.560
kind of overplayed her hand with Spike. Not everyone, but there were people

1243
01:20:48.600 --> 01:20:51.600
who who are familiar with the gossip
at the time who say that, you

1244
01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:57.000
know, Spike ended up not maybe
they want to buy the promotion, maybe

1245
01:20:57.199 --> 01:21:01.359
not, but it did not end
well and that they the relationship came to

1246
01:21:01.439 --> 01:21:05.960
an end with Dixie and the TNA
side sort of pointing fingers through emissaries and

1247
01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:11.199
through proxies and you know, TNN
Spike being like, oh, we love

1248
01:21:11.239 --> 01:21:15.199
the heaven and then UFC disappears and
they turned around and put Bellatour on there

1249
01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:17.720
to fuck with them. They did
an interim MMA show called Uncensored for the

1250
01:21:17.840 --> 01:21:21.720
year that the contract didn't allow them
to put anybody else another, but they

1251
01:21:21.720 --> 01:21:25.199
could turn back around try to fuck
you. It's like w W Raw leaves

1252
01:21:25.199 --> 01:21:27.319
and they grabbed TNA, right,
you know, they put TNA on on

1253
01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:32.680
Raw left and what how do those
games continue? They brought Bellatour in against

1254
01:21:32.760 --> 01:21:39.159
UFC and then and then when TNA
left, they never put any of the

1255
01:21:39.199 --> 01:21:42.880
wrestling on there. They flirted with
a ring of honor for a little bit,

1256
01:21:42.960 --> 01:21:45.960
but they never really made a move
in that direction. But it's just

1257
01:21:45.039 --> 01:21:47.720
like, you know, Paul was
like the canary and the coal mine for

1258
01:21:48.479 --> 01:21:51.640
wrestling and MMA companies dealing with these
guys you could grow with them and have

1259
01:21:51.720 --> 01:21:55.720
great success with them, but it
always ended up with them doing something that

1260
01:21:55.920 --> 01:22:00.479
was like embracing your competitor when you
left, you know. Yep, probably

1261
01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:01.920
because it was one of the few
things they could hang their hat on that

1262
01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:04.479
they were trying to, like they
brought ACWN as far as I can tell,

1263
01:22:04.479 --> 01:22:08.359
because they were trying to redefine the
network around like an extreme sports block

1264
01:22:09.119 --> 01:22:14.159
or like an extreme sports advertising proposition
where it was ECW and bull riding and

1265
01:22:14.239 --> 01:22:16.119
this like souped up bowling, this
weird bowling. They make fun of it

1266
01:22:16.239 --> 01:22:19.439
during the Living Dangerously broadcast. We'll
call it out when Joe Stalls mentions it.

1267
01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:24.600
Rock and bowl they called it where
they tried to like spice up like

1268
01:22:24.800 --> 01:22:29.119
collegiate bowling names facing off against each
other. Oh Jesus Christ, roller Derby,

1269
01:22:29.239 --> 01:22:31.560
roller jam. They were they were
trying to really like they saw UCW's

1270
01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:34.800
part of that play kind of you
know when you hear the TNT guys back

1271
01:22:34.840 --> 01:22:38.600
in the day talking about nitro,
was like they're always trying to fit it

1272
01:22:38.680 --> 01:22:43.399
into like a broad category of programming
of course, when really it was just

1273
01:22:43.479 --> 01:22:45.399
like it has to be in here, which is the only thing that's gonna

1274
01:22:45.439 --> 01:22:47.119
draw any numbers, but we pretend
it's part of a strategy. No,

1275
01:22:47.319 --> 01:22:50.159
there's no strategy. Guys like how
they try to make a ECW sci Fi

1276
01:22:50.239 --> 01:22:54.119
When they put it on sci Fi, they put oh yeah, they had

1277
01:22:54.199 --> 01:22:57.880
like mummies and zombies and shit,
even though that's horror, not sci fi.

1278
01:22:58.039 --> 01:23:00.680
But yeah, the show itself,
Living Diners two thousand one of the

1279
01:23:00.760 --> 01:23:02.840
underplayed parts. While ECW was struggling
financially, their pay per views were actually

1280
01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:06.359
doing quite well. There was evidence
that being on national television did help.

1281
01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:10.079
They didn't always do great numbers,
they did phenomenal numbers. I remember a

1282
01:23:10.159 --> 01:23:13.560
Christmas Eve of nineteen ninety nine,
which is a Friday night, and I

1283
01:23:13.600 --> 01:23:15.520
remember watching Mike Austin versus Mesado Tanaka
and one of the best matches they ever

1284
01:23:15.560 --> 01:23:18.159
put on television, and just being
like, this is Christmas Eve, is

1285
01:23:18.279 --> 01:23:20.640
so weird, Nobody's gonna watch this. Why they're putting such great stuff on

1286
01:23:20.640 --> 01:23:24.520
here? And it did a great
number. So it was like that Friday

1287
01:23:24.600 --> 01:23:28.159
night thing was kind of working for
ECW. They were making Friday Night's work

1288
01:23:28.159 --> 01:23:30.439
before SmackDown ever did. Yeah,
and by work, I mean relative to

1289
01:23:30.479 --> 01:23:34.039
the expectations of what you would expect
a cable channel of TNN's profile to do

1290
01:23:34.399 --> 01:23:38.680
on a Friday night, And there
were some some weeks where the ratings were

1291
01:23:38.760 --> 01:23:42.159
underwhelming. For the most part,
they were good. And this show Living

1292
01:23:42.199 --> 01:23:45.920
in Intertly two thousand does a point
two to four by rate at the time,

1293
01:23:45.039 --> 01:23:48.239
which meant nearly a million people ordered
the show. It's a lot of

1294
01:23:48.239 --> 01:23:50.600
people. That's crazy. That's a
lot of people. You're not getting a

1295
01:23:50.600 --> 01:23:56.800
million people ordering aw pay per views. I'll tell you that that's wild.

1296
01:23:58.000 --> 01:24:00.039
This says, according to Scott Williams's
book that this that's this rating was the

1297
01:24:00.119 --> 01:24:03.640
largest number for an ECW pay per
view in seven months. Still, of

1298
01:24:03.680 --> 01:24:06.199
course, not a fraction. That
was He notes of what WWF shows were

1299
01:24:06.199 --> 01:24:10.079
doing at the time. I mean, you talk about fucking two thousand WWF.

1300
01:24:10.159 --> 01:24:15.600
My god, they're just printing money. It's just not public it's fucking

1301
01:24:15.680 --> 01:24:18.159
it's a madhouse. I like to
Patterson, I've got an idea, boss,

1302
01:24:19.399 --> 01:24:27.119
I would like to to put a
printing press in the basement. Can

1303
01:24:27.159 --> 01:24:32.359
we get a printing press for for
for monetary? Uh uh? Talk about

1304
01:24:32.520 --> 01:24:35.840
confe bills. We don't deal an
no, no, no, no,

1305
01:24:35.880 --> 01:24:38.279
no, no, no no,
I want to create no no, no,

1306
01:24:38.319 --> 01:24:40.760
no no no, don't listen,
I'm not I'm not talking counterfeit,

1307
01:24:40.880 --> 01:24:47.439
all right, I'm talking a new
a new monetary option, all right.

1308
01:24:49.399 --> 01:24:54.760
Vince Bills, Yeah, Paul got
a few of those delivered to the offices,

1309
01:24:56.920 --> 01:25:00.319
payment pending. I would like I
would like to have to have a

1310
01:25:01.560 --> 01:25:08.079
currency that that is that is you
know, it's global, like because is

1311
01:25:08.079 --> 01:25:11.760
a global brand. But I would
like to have a currency that is that

1312
01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:16.399
that we create that revolves around W
W E than me. That's right,

1313
01:25:17.239 --> 01:25:23.119
So, Vince Bills, and you
know, we can have a different different

1314
01:25:23.199 --> 01:25:30.800
establishments of of of monetary incretion,
secretion, absolutely, excretion, whatever it

1315
01:25:30.920 --> 01:25:38.760
is. So can you get me
a bill press machine? M Yeah,

1316
01:25:38.800 --> 01:25:43.880
that was one of his finishers,
but the jackhammer was really you know,

1317
01:25:43.960 --> 01:25:47.039
as I was researching this episode,
Boss, the bill press machine, what's

1318
01:25:47.079 --> 01:25:50.960
that? The bill press machine Goldberg's
other finishing move. And it's funny you

1319
01:25:51.079 --> 01:25:54.960
mentioned this because you know, says
research in this episode, I heard more

1320
01:25:55.000 --> 01:25:57.840
than one person say, you know
that nobody in the history of the business

1321
01:25:57.880 --> 01:26:00.920
is fucked more guys than Paul Hayman. And then I thought about pat Patterson,

1322
01:26:01.439 --> 01:26:05.239
and I said, well, actually
I might, I might take issue

1323
01:26:05.239 --> 01:26:10.479
with that. And they're strong at
the gate too. I mean, ECW

1324
01:26:11.039 --> 01:26:15.680
was doing pretty good crowds at the
time, especially compared to you know,

1325
01:26:15.760 --> 01:26:18.479
when they were being much more conservative
about geographical expansion. You would see them

1326
01:26:18.560 --> 01:26:21.279
do week you know, month in
and month out of the arena. This

1327
01:26:21.439 --> 01:26:27.159
show in Danbury, Connecticut, interestingly
enough, Yes, I know that was

1328
01:26:27.239 --> 01:26:29.880
funny. Yeah, back to Danbury. You've seen shows in Danbury, right,

1329
01:26:30.640 --> 01:26:32.640
I yes, I saw one show. I saw one show in Danbury.

1330
01:26:32.680 --> 01:26:36.439
I saw a big time wrestling not
there. I think I saw it

1331
01:26:36.600 --> 01:26:44.319
at a y or something some kind
of why Yeah, exactly exactly. I'm

1332
01:26:44.319 --> 01:26:47.920
still asking myself that question. But
I know I do know where. I

1333
01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:54.960
do know where it is though,
because oddly enough, that same college my

1334
01:26:55.159 --> 01:27:00.239
daughters had piano recitals there. Wow, in the past. So the show

1335
01:27:00.359 --> 01:27:05.880
does five d and forty three paid
for ninety seven thousand dollars at the gate?

1336
01:27:09.239 --> 01:27:13.039
Let me get this straight. Hold
on, do I have this right?

1337
01:27:13.159 --> 01:27:16.079
Yes? Two thousand. So in
WCW, you remember how we always

1338
01:27:16.079 --> 01:27:19.000
talk about how in the shits WW
was In this short Kevin s Solon run

1339
01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:21.640
in two thousand and that I were
like Hogan back and Red and Yellow doing

1340
01:27:21.760 --> 01:27:26.960
like fucking nineteen eighty five promos.
Again, Yes, they actually only did

1341
01:27:27.039 --> 01:27:31.119
a three thousand and three ninety so
EASW came in, came within a thousand

1342
01:27:31.279 --> 01:27:35.279
paid of matching WCW live pay per
view attendance at this point in time in

1343
01:27:35.279 --> 01:27:39.039
two thousand. Wow, that's not
what you, I don't think could expect

1344
01:27:39.079 --> 01:27:42.279
it. That's more reflection of how
pathetic WCW had gotten than how great the

1345
01:27:42.439 --> 01:27:45.680
CW had gotten. But still in
the dying day that that's kind of what

1346
01:27:45.800 --> 01:27:49.199
was really the the the mind fuck
for a lot of the guys back then.

1347
01:27:49.199 --> 01:27:51.159
I feel like when you listen to
him talk about this time period,

1348
01:27:51.159 --> 01:27:55.520
it's like we're actually doing stuff that
we were making money. It's not like

1349
01:27:55.600 --> 01:27:57.880
a company that's dying and you go
to the shows and can see it.

1350
01:27:59.039 --> 01:28:01.119
It's not a company's dying. There's
nobody in the audience or the sheets or

1351
01:28:01.119 --> 01:28:03.880
fright reports about how nobody's find the
point reviews or the ratings are in the

1352
01:28:03.880 --> 01:28:08.119
toilet. None of that is happening. In fact, all those metrics relative

1353
01:28:08.159 --> 01:28:10.800
to history are at their all time
best. In ECW they actually have numbers

1354
01:28:10.800 --> 01:28:13.640
they can point that, so they
were actually generating revenue. Here the guilty

1355
01:28:13.760 --> 01:28:15.119
chart show we mentioned from nineteen ninety
nine, that was their biggest pay per

1356
01:28:15.159 --> 01:28:17.760
view ever. I think it did
over a one point zero by rate.

1357
01:28:18.079 --> 01:28:23.880
Did their highest ever paid attendance for
e CW in history in Chicago. Great

1358
01:28:24.359 --> 01:28:28.159
things to point to, but it's
just on the back end. The expenses

1359
01:28:28.199 --> 01:28:30.920
were piling up way, way too
fast, and Paul was making commitments just

1360
01:28:31.000 --> 01:28:33.840
kind of like Jim Crockett did in
a way, making commitments based on pay

1361
01:28:33.840 --> 01:28:35.680
per view money coming in, and
it's like, yeah, but the pay

1362
01:28:35.680 --> 01:28:39.880
per view money doesn't come in instantaneously. You know, you have to budget

1363
01:28:40.000 --> 01:28:42.000
like for that to come in in
like ninety days and one hundred days.

1364
01:28:42.079 --> 01:28:45.119
I think in the bankruptcy filings they
said like they were still owed like eight

1365
01:28:45.239 --> 01:28:47.479
hundred thousand dollars from the Inn Demand
pay per view company when they went bankrupt.

1366
01:28:47.840 --> 01:28:50.640
Oh my god, it's not that
they were owed it as if someone

1367
01:28:50.720 --> 01:28:54.560
was trying not to pay it,
although maybe knowing they were in trouble,

1368
01:28:54.640 --> 01:28:57.039
they were delaying the payment to see
if they could get away with not sending

1369
01:28:57.079 --> 01:29:00.439
the check. But it just took
ninety days, so much longer than you

1370
01:29:00.479 --> 01:29:04.239
would think for all the cable systems
to get together, add up the buys

1371
01:29:04.279 --> 01:29:08.279
from each region, and then parcel
out credit. You know, here's your

1372
01:29:08.319 --> 01:29:10.880
piece, here's our PCs. And
by the time the check gets there,

1373
01:29:11.600 --> 01:29:15.520
you know you don't necessarily your expenses
don't can't wait for that moment to arrive.

1374
01:29:15.600 --> 01:29:17.600
And so what do you do.
You take out credit because all right,

1375
01:29:18.199 --> 01:29:20.720
we know the money's coming. Let's
take a loan now, so we

1376
01:29:20.760 --> 01:29:25.399
can actually put money in guy's pockets
and they can stop complaining about not getting

1377
01:29:25.439 --> 01:29:27.680
paid this week. I mean,
that money comes in, we'll pay back,

1378
01:29:27.680 --> 01:29:29.840
well, what about interest? Right, and just keeps going and going

1379
01:29:29.960 --> 01:29:32.399
and going. And it's like you
have this money on paper theoretically, but

1380
01:29:32.479 --> 01:29:35.840
you're taking out loans to give people
money right now, and you get fucked.

1381
01:29:36.079 --> 01:29:41.359
And that's the American way, of
course. So UCW a victim of

1382
01:29:41.399 --> 01:29:46.520
Americana there in that in that sense, and there in the booking struggling.

1383
01:29:46.720 --> 01:29:50.000
One thing I kind of heard a
lot of guys talking about researching this episode

1384
01:29:50.000 --> 01:29:53.319
that I never really appreciated about ACW. It's a lot of guys in this

1385
01:29:53.399 --> 01:29:56.600
time period are saying that Paul Haman, you know, he's only booking the

1386
01:29:56.640 --> 01:30:00.039
top one or two programs, kind
of like Vince at WWF. Really like

1387
01:30:00.039 --> 01:30:02.039
he's still consumed by the top guy's
programs and all the other shoot, he's

1388
01:30:02.039 --> 01:30:05.960
got to deal with that. He's
not really the guy that guys lower on

1389
01:30:06.000 --> 01:30:10.680
the poll in ECW thought about is
delivering their message, delivering their creative and

1390
01:30:10.760 --> 01:30:14.640
envisioning where they're going. Tommy Dreamer
was very much of the emissary to Paul

1391
01:30:14.640 --> 01:30:16.119
Hayman in that regard. And that
adds up because when you realize, like

1392
01:30:16.159 --> 01:30:18.920
you know, Tommy Dreamer went on
to get an office job at WWE in

1393
01:30:19.039 --> 01:30:21.640
DNA, and for years was kind
of thought of more of it was like

1394
01:30:21.680 --> 01:30:25.920
a more like a booker and like
an office guy and like a manager.

1395
01:30:26.600 --> 01:30:29.319
I really didn't know that. Yeah, And so a lot of the guys

1396
01:30:29.359 --> 01:30:31.039
that were lower on the card,
especially in this point in time in ECW,

1397
01:30:31.399 --> 01:30:34.399
much more associate Tommy Dreamer with the
guy they went to for direction,

1398
01:30:34.680 --> 01:30:39.439
for you know, communication around where
they were going with their careers, how

1399
01:30:39.479 --> 01:30:42.399
their storylines were going to progress.
He'd even called them up and signed them,

1400
01:30:42.600 --> 01:30:44.159
you know, he called them up
and asked them if they wanted to

1401
01:30:44.199 --> 01:30:46.760
come in, And they talk about
Paul as sort of like a more distant

1402
01:30:46.760 --> 01:30:50.279
figure on something. Would he invite
them over to get a pizza at the

1403
01:30:50.319 --> 01:30:53.720
pizzeria? I doubt that. I'm
sure he had it all fro himself.

1404
01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:58.399
That no. Dart Nannie during in
particular, talks about how Tommy like would

1405
01:30:58.399 --> 01:31:00.600
actually go out with the guys,
like, you know, go to a

1406
01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:03.479
movie or hang out at the club
with them and stuff like that. Paul

1407
01:31:03.600 --> 01:31:06.439
wasn't a guy that you you know, dealt with that way. He wasn't

1408
01:31:06.479 --> 01:31:10.800
somebody that was as much of an
actual presence in most of the locker room's

1409
01:31:10.800 --> 01:31:14.800
lives. I kind of wouldn't think
he would. I don't think any It's

1410
01:31:14.880 --> 01:31:16.520
like, I don't think the boss
would ever do that, because the boss

1411
01:31:16.520 --> 01:31:18.560
has got other shit to do.
It makes sense. It's just that Paul

1412
01:31:18.560 --> 01:31:23.279
Hayman's reputation is finding these diamonds in
the rough. Paul Hayman's reputation is finding

1413
01:31:23.319 --> 01:31:26.319
these guys that no one saw any
star power in and imagining ways they could

1414
01:31:26.319 --> 01:31:29.439
become stars. And some of these
guys didn't even ever deal with him,

1415
01:31:29.840 --> 01:31:32.039
So it's hard to know where to
assign credit and not for guys who got

1416
01:31:32.079 --> 01:31:35.359
over in ECW because Paul didn't deal
with everybody. You can't well, no,

1417
01:31:35.479 --> 01:31:40.159
I mean it's it's always the individual. I think the individual got themselves

1418
01:31:40.199 --> 01:31:46.880
over. But the idea is that
is that Paul Hayman is credited for giving

1419
01:31:46.960 --> 01:31:50.560
them the outlet, yeah, to
show off what they can do without limitation.

1420
01:31:51.279 --> 01:31:54.760
Right. There's a great story Danny
during tells about how when they got

1421
01:31:54.760 --> 01:32:00.520
a dark match opportunity at Madison Square
Garden from WWE after ECW had folded their

1422
01:32:00.560 --> 01:32:02.920
backstage. They don't know anything about
how ww works the circuit, They don't

1423
01:32:02.920 --> 01:32:09.000
know what the expectations are around working. They bump and feed nothing about that,

1424
01:32:09.640 --> 01:32:12.640
and Tony Garia gives them some direction
like it's nineteen seventy two about take

1425
01:32:12.640 --> 01:32:15.159
a backdrop. You're in the opener, kid, like take keep it simple,

1426
01:32:15.239 --> 01:32:16.960
just do something flashy at the end. And then Paul, who's now

1427
01:32:17.000 --> 01:32:20.239
backstage and kind of insinuating himself from
the WWF back office, comes up to

1428
01:32:20.279 --> 01:32:23.560
them and says, you know,
go out there and go balls to the

1429
01:32:23.600 --> 01:32:26.159
wall like it's the ECW arena.
And they go out there and they do

1430
01:32:26.199 --> 01:32:28.720
an ECW match wherever you know,
no matter where you are in the card,

1431
01:32:28.760 --> 01:32:30.680
you can do all you want.
You can do power bombs, you

1432
01:32:30.720 --> 01:32:32.880
can do diamond cutters, you can
do you don't worry about other people unless

1433
01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:34.880
it's task. If you do want
to tas this moves, he's gonna have

1434
01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:40.239
an APPS right out down. And
I'm sure the guy's on roster too.

1435
01:32:40.239 --> 01:32:42.399
I'm sure if you went out there
and did a five star frog splash or

1436
01:32:42.479 --> 01:32:45.279
triple jump moon salt, you know, RBDY and Saboo would have something to

1437
01:32:45.279 --> 01:32:51.159
say about it. But they didn't
know about the the that's right. So

1438
01:32:51.239 --> 01:32:54.399
they go out there and have this
like match with all these crazy moves and

1439
01:32:54.479 --> 01:32:57.239
doing moves, kicking out of moves
that like the heart foundation, the heart

1440
01:32:57.279 --> 01:33:00.279
attack you know, oh yeah,
can kick out of that in WWF the

1441
01:33:00.279 --> 01:33:03.640
it's supposed to be finished or the
power arm last ride was there, And

1442
01:33:03.720 --> 01:33:08.000
they get all this fucking heat afterwards, all this heat, and Danny Doring,

1443
01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:10.520
who hates Paul Hayman or did at
the time, chucks it up to

1444
01:33:10.560 --> 01:33:13.600
Paul doing it on purpose, sending
it out there to fuck themselves because he

1445
01:33:13.680 --> 01:33:16.319
knew the locker room culture and he
knew how that would play. But it's

1446
01:33:16.319 --> 01:33:19.399
like these guys that they're learning,
like you said, they were able to

1447
01:33:19.479 --> 01:33:23.319
go out there and do things without
restriction and find ways to get over.

1448
01:33:23.880 --> 01:33:26.199
What I love too. What I
what I find to be so funny about

1449
01:33:26.199 --> 01:33:30.840
that whole thing too, is is
is so what do their things happened there?

1450
01:33:30.600 --> 01:33:33.359
So they saw so that it was
it was a dark it was a

1451
01:33:33.439 --> 01:33:36.680
dark match. Yeah, yeah,
it was shown MSG. Yeah, okay,

1452
01:33:36.800 --> 01:33:43.279
how showing MSG? Okay, So
what it's on TV? Just go

1453
01:33:43.319 --> 01:33:45.039
out there saying, guys, you
know what you I appreciate you guys went

1454
01:33:45.079 --> 01:33:47.319
out there doing your thing, but
you shouldn't do that in the future,

1455
01:33:48.439 --> 01:33:50.560
he said. They get all this
fucking like you said, they get all

1456
01:33:50.600 --> 01:33:54.520
this ship like it ship starts is
back. It's not even just it's like

1457
01:33:54.560 --> 01:33:57.479
you know the other boys like,
oh you fucked out one up. I

1458
01:33:58.039 --> 01:34:01.680
love to do that ship I know. It's so fucking it's the culture there.

1459
01:34:01.840 --> 01:34:06.159
Can't wait to tell on you,
right. They can't wait grown men,

1460
01:34:06.720 --> 01:34:11.720
right, they can't wait to fucking
they can't wait to take you down.

1461
01:34:11.800 --> 01:34:14.560
That's right, all right. They
can't wait to because they can't wait

1462
01:34:14.600 --> 01:34:19.520
to feel better about themselves by it
doesn't exactly feel more secure, and exactly

1463
01:34:19.840 --> 01:34:24.760
all they want to do is,
yes, they they want to feel good

1464
01:34:24.760 --> 01:34:29.399
about themselves, so they have to
make sure and listen, the one who

1465
01:34:29.479 --> 01:34:31.840
gets there first is the one who's
gonna feel best about themselves, all right,

1466
01:34:32.119 --> 01:34:36.560
totally you they're all racing to be
number one, so gross, you

1467
01:34:36.640 --> 01:34:42.159
know, just to fucking take you
down eighteen notches until well you got to

1468
01:34:42.159 --> 01:34:44.359
pay your dues, you know,
and that's just part of the game.

1469
01:34:44.439 --> 01:34:45.640
And who is the best at that
triple h And look where he is today,

1470
01:34:46.359 --> 01:34:49.520
Bence, I've been paying my due
since you know, I'm a twenty

1471
01:34:49.600 --> 01:34:53.199
year veteran. Well, you know
what, I've never seen you before.

1472
01:34:53.199 --> 01:34:56.520
You're a rookie year. Maybe you'll
get Rookie of the Year. We have

1473
01:34:56.640 --> 01:35:00.039
ways of doing things around here that
have no basis in logic whatsoever. I

1474
01:35:00.119 --> 01:35:01.560
mean, we like to bump and
feed. But now, at this point

1475
01:35:01.560 --> 01:35:03.960
in time, the point is ECW. When it started, you had guys

1476
01:35:04.000 --> 01:35:08.800
who had experience all over the place, you know, internationally, other indies

1477
01:35:09.319 --> 01:35:13.600
like Terry Funk, National Television,
worked every circuit. But by now ECW

1478
01:35:14.199 --> 01:35:18.319
much I'm a I'm a I'm a
I'm a bona fide honorary Japanese man.

1479
01:35:19.359 --> 01:35:23.279
Did you know that I have a
record. It's not anything, it's not

1480
01:35:23.359 --> 01:35:26.199
a Great Shakes or anything, but
you know, but hey, you know

1481
01:35:26.239 --> 01:35:30.079
what, I got a record.
I'm going to live in immortality. We

1482
01:35:30.239 --> 01:35:35.000
hate school rock and roll, you
know the Funk Brothers. We know,

1483
01:35:35.159 --> 01:35:39.159
we know exactly what's going on.
We know where we're been, we know

1484
01:35:39.199 --> 01:35:41.159
where we're going. We just don't
know where we are. I wonder where

1485
01:35:41.199 --> 01:35:45.279
Terry's going to make out in the
t lf X games. We're gonna flip

1486
01:35:45.319 --> 01:35:46.680
a coin to decide whether I do
it or you do it? Oh,

1487
01:35:46.760 --> 01:35:49.720
I know, that's that's a question. That's a question a couple of characters

1488
01:35:49.840 --> 01:35:54.680
lapsed. Only will it be traditionally
or buy you all? It's not,

1489
01:35:54.840 --> 01:36:02.399
it's it's not decided. It doesn't
specify, so who knows. So you

1490
01:36:02.479 --> 01:36:05.520
know, ECW has been around long
enough by this point that they've they started

1491
01:36:05.560 --> 01:36:12.439
their own gym to train guys during
Chris Chetti came out of there. There

1492
01:36:12.479 --> 01:36:15.680
are a couple of other guys,
I think Pablo Marquez, Tom Marquez came

1493
01:36:15.720 --> 01:36:17.399
out of there. They were starting
to like train their own guys, guys

1494
01:36:17.479 --> 01:36:20.680
off the street, guys who didn't
know the business, guys who they trained

1495
01:36:20.720 --> 01:36:25.640
from jump and that's that's the wrestling
they know, that's how to get over,

1496
01:36:25.920 --> 01:36:28.600
and it that that's how they know
how to get over, and that's

1497
01:36:28.680 --> 01:36:30.239
the sort of lack of restriction that
they're used to dealing with. And you

1498
01:36:30.319 --> 01:36:34.319
set these guys loose in a business
full of all these esoteric rules based in

1499
01:36:34.640 --> 01:36:38.239
a culture that they just didn't come
up in, that are taught to you

1500
01:36:38.319 --> 01:36:41.239
by trainers who know those locker rooms, and they didn't have that benefit,

1501
01:36:41.520 --> 01:36:45.159
and they're gonna come out completely normally
the problem. And I think the point

1502
01:36:45.239 --> 01:36:47.000
is by this point around Living Dangerously
two thousand, you're singing an ECW locker

1503
01:36:47.079 --> 01:36:50.399
room that's more replete with guys like
that than ever before, because they're they're

1504
01:36:50.439 --> 01:36:54.840
trying to save a buck on talent, and they're bringing in guys with less

1505
01:36:54.920 --> 01:36:59.279
kind of broad based experience in that
in that in that way, which is

1506
01:36:59.319 --> 01:37:01.640
why so many of the guys that
were available when ECW one under didn't get

1507
01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:08.720
WWF contracts. Necessarily, they didn't
always they weren't always quick enough to figure

1508
01:37:08.720 --> 01:37:12.479
out how to adapt themselves some of
them just might not have been that that

1509
01:37:12.560 --> 01:37:14.920
talent that. I'm not saying everybody
deserved a contract, but I think a

1510
01:37:14.960 --> 01:37:17.880
lot of it was that culture clash
for sure. As for the pay per

1511
01:37:18.000 --> 01:37:23.520
view here, they were not on
their game as far as promoting matches.

1512
01:37:24.560 --> 01:37:27.359
There wasn't even a match listed for
the pay per view a week out from

1513
01:37:27.399 --> 01:37:30.920
the show. Oh my god,
I'm on saying ACW was great about announcing

1514
01:37:30.960 --> 01:37:33.760
full lineups or anything like that.
That was never something that Paul Hayman cared

1515
01:37:33.760 --> 01:37:38.199
a lot about, but it was
it was reaching let's say, extremes in

1516
01:37:38.279 --> 01:37:42.279
two thousands, okay, with the
belief being apparently according to the newsletters that

1517
01:37:42.359 --> 01:37:45.000
Hayman thought, you know, they'd
get eighty thousand buys for just about every

1518
01:37:45.000 --> 01:37:46.000
show, no matter how good or
bad the card was, or how good

1519
01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:49.159
it was being hyped up. And
I think the show proves the opposite,

1520
01:37:49.520 --> 01:37:53.800
and that it did an above average
number. And you got Dusty and you've

1521
01:37:53.800 --> 01:37:57.479
got a pro you know, you've
got a program that's culminating, You're buying

1522
01:37:57.520 --> 01:38:00.560
something that's going to come to a
conclusion. And I think if they did,

1523
01:38:00.640 --> 01:38:03.000
if they managed to pull off Mike
Austin versus Rob van Dam for the

1524
01:38:03.039 --> 01:38:06.960
world title back then. I think
that definitely would have done bigger numbers than

1525
01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:11.520
something that only had like a month's
build or or even any I think the

1526
01:38:11.640 --> 01:38:15.880
lack of announced card was more a
function of disorganization than it was strategy.

1527
01:38:16.439 --> 01:38:19.560
Yeah, I would imagine that,
that's for sure. And it wasn't just

1528
01:38:20.640 --> 01:38:26.479
It wasn't just a video game that
ECW suddenly found from a licensing opportunity at

1529
01:38:26.479 --> 01:38:30.199
the worst possible time to deal with
it. Uh you know who else?

1530
01:38:30.279 --> 01:38:33.920
They They cut a deal with San
Francisco toymakers. Oh yeah, great,

1531
01:38:46.920 --> 01:39:00.000
look like another DC out of your
tank team cut the mark I make figures

1532
01:39:00.000 --> 01:39:09.199
then ranking sold differently. DC W
ever see these toys? Yeahs yeah,

1533
01:39:09.800 --> 01:39:14.439
the awful. They were awful.
I hated him. Did you ever hold

1534
01:39:14.439 --> 01:39:16.159
one in your hand? Not an
actual one? I I. I saw

1535
01:39:16.239 --> 01:39:19.439
them in the in the stores and
I was like, oh, yeah,

1536
01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:25.880
right, nope, because they were
just like they were They were that weird,

1537
01:39:26.079 --> 01:39:30.199
uh like very they weren't they weren't
They kind of like very thick hasbro

1538
01:39:30.319 --> 01:39:34.199
E type. Yeah yeah, yeah, but not not cool Hasbro Like they

1539
01:39:34.199 --> 01:39:38.359
were just kind of goofy looking.
Some of them were They had more points

1540
01:39:38.359 --> 01:39:41.199
in particulation than it has bro like
you could bend the elbows on some of

1541
01:39:41.279 --> 01:39:44.159
them. I like the Saboo figure. I like the Taz figure. The

1542
01:39:44.199 --> 01:39:45.960
rest were kind of bogus. The
Van Damn figure kind of sucked. It

1543
01:39:46.119 --> 01:39:48.680
should have been a lot better.
You know, you got guys if they

1544
01:39:48.720 --> 01:39:51.760
have an offense where their legs go
out. If the toy only goes up

1545
01:39:51.800 --> 01:39:56.399
and down, it sucks. You
know, that goes like if the legs

1546
01:39:56.439 --> 01:40:02.279
can't like extend in a split,
you gonna have different I'm looking at oh

1547
01:40:02.279 --> 01:40:05.680
I see yeah, yeah, yeah, they although you know what they're there

1548
01:40:05.760 --> 01:40:09.079
there there could be some possibilities there. They were pretty cool. The Taz

1549
01:40:09.119 --> 01:40:12.680
one was cool because you could do
all of his moves and they looked like

1550
01:40:12.760 --> 01:40:15.079
they actually looked Sabo too, because
while Sabu did a lot of flying,

1551
01:40:15.119 --> 01:40:18.600
he often did it with straight legs. Yeah, the play sets, the

1552
01:40:18.680 --> 01:40:21.640
tables and everything is It's not something
I've expected ECW to figure out. A

1553
01:40:21.680 --> 01:40:26.199
lot of the guys on roster just
talked about being floored that they didn't have

1554
01:40:26.239 --> 01:40:30.279
to leave VCW to get action figures, you know, right, But there

1555
01:40:30.319 --> 01:40:31.239
were a lot of promises, so
weird. I mean, that's kind of

1556
01:40:31.239 --> 01:40:34.479
a weird thing because like you don't
think about what's the uh yeah, age

1557
01:40:34.560 --> 01:40:41.319
is four and up, so they're
they're thinking that kids age four fucking see

1558
01:40:41.359 --> 01:40:46.039
these cec W. Yeah, yeah, I guess so so much of that

1559
01:40:46.159 --> 01:40:53.479
Oh my god, a c W
you got Taz there and he leaves exactly.

1560
01:40:54.079 --> 01:40:57.560
That's probably probably part of the problem
is that they get action figures and

1561
01:40:57.720 --> 01:41:00.159
they they're not there anymore. Absolutely, but you know, they got a

1562
01:41:00.239 --> 01:41:02.640
national TV slot, so that probably
opened up chances. And I know San

1563
01:41:02.680 --> 01:41:06.399
Francisco toy makers used to make WCW
toys. I think those big ass rubber

1564
01:41:06.439 --> 01:41:13.359
ones was them, if I'm not
mistaken. Oh the Wow. So they're

1565
01:41:13.359 --> 01:41:18.119
also like ECW's benefiting from wrestlings exploding, but the old license holders like are

1566
01:41:18.199 --> 01:41:23.479
losing out because there's new interest,
you know, for the video games and

1567
01:41:23.520 --> 01:41:28.039
stuff. Sure, so they're catching
like these falling knives and winning. They

1568
01:41:28.079 --> 01:41:30.760
even published an ECW magazine. We've
talked in the past, including in the

1569
01:41:30.800 --> 01:41:33.560
Greed episode about the Wow magazine that
came out like a shoot pa. Yeah.

1570
01:41:34.159 --> 01:41:36.159
Yeah, there was another one that
was put up at the same company,

1571
01:41:36.159 --> 01:41:39.479
So it was the exact same dimensions
and the same design, but it's

1572
01:41:39.520 --> 01:41:43.800
just the ECW magazine. Wow,
yeah, it was wild, so all

1573
01:41:43.880 --> 01:41:45.479
you know, that's that's what's so
crazy is they're getting all these things that

1574
01:41:45.520 --> 01:41:48.880
are the hallmarks of success at a
time when the financial wheels are coming off.

1575
01:41:49.000 --> 01:41:51.439
It's just you couldn't is that kind
of a isn't that kind of what

1576
01:41:51.520 --> 01:41:54.960
they wouldn't? I mean, right, that's wrestling though, you know they

1577
01:41:55.159 --> 01:42:00.279
all that shit. It's everything's on
a delayed wheel. Well it's on a

1578
01:42:00.319 --> 01:42:02.800
delayed wheel, and that you're seeing
the fruits of something that was pasted potential.

1579
01:42:02.800 --> 01:42:04.960
But that doesn't mean that by the
time it gets there, you're fucking

1580
01:42:05.039 --> 01:42:09.039
almost out of business. This is
I'd be like, you know, by

1581
01:42:09.079 --> 01:42:12.760
the time the coliseum videos hit the
shelves, w W f have than you

1582
01:42:12.800 --> 01:42:15.359
know, revenue or or not have
in revenue, but was in like a

1583
01:42:15.439 --> 01:42:19.319
severe financial distress. You know.
Yeah, those things kind of were came

1584
01:42:19.399 --> 01:42:25.439
online as they were only growing more
like the reason people wanted to sign those

1585
01:42:25.439 --> 01:42:28.079
deals with them. Oh it is, I've got it. I've got issues

1586
01:42:28.119 --> 01:42:31.000
of THEMW magazine. Yeah, what
do you see? What do you like,

1587
01:42:31.680 --> 01:42:34.760
well, I've got let's see when
when was the show's March that's right?

1588
01:42:35.079 --> 01:42:41.239
So here we have the the April
two thousand issue, okay, which

1589
01:42:41.279 --> 01:42:45.880
would have been you know, release
in March. So uh oh, and

1590
01:42:45.920 --> 01:42:47.640
it's all about the video game.
There on the cover, a claim presents

1591
01:42:47.920 --> 01:42:55.279
cyber sab Oh wow yeah, e
CW the official magazine e c W e

1592
01:42:55.359 --> 01:42:59.720
CW Magazine dot com. Mike Austin's
on page two picture of Mike Ausoin with

1593
01:42:59.840 --> 01:43:09.039
the championship. YEPWW already a claim. Hardcore Evolution the video game presents ECW

1594
01:43:09.279 --> 01:43:14.079
Wrestling Living Dangerously Live on pay per
view Sunday, March twelfth, to excuse

1595
01:43:14.119 --> 01:43:16.760
me, two thousand, contact your
local local cable or satellite provider. What

1596
01:43:16.800 --> 01:43:21.640
are the contents here? Well,
we have a six. The features are

1597
01:43:23.720 --> 01:43:30.520
A claim gets extreme exit Light,
Enter Night, ECW fans wake up to

1598
01:43:30.640 --> 01:43:34.439
Sandman again, ECW's Year in Review, Some wrestlers leave, some return in

1599
01:43:34.560 --> 01:43:43.279
RVD holds on a TV title that's
every years exactly right. There's a bald

1600
01:43:43.399 --> 01:43:45.520
to the Bone Tony DeVito, an
angel known as the Baldies, unite to

1601
01:43:45.560 --> 01:43:51.479
oppose New Jack. November to Remember
nineteen nighty nine ecwnety nine with extreme pay

1602
01:43:51.520 --> 01:43:56.840
per view guilty has charged two thousand, said he keeps off a new millennium

1603
01:43:56.880 --> 01:44:00.479
with hardcore competition, and they have
the whole f and mail bag, news

1604
01:44:00.560 --> 01:44:05.399
and rumors, TV and events schedules, Wrestler over the Month, ECW Talent

1605
01:44:05.600 --> 01:44:12.680
close Up, Uh, Joey Styles
has a column in Styles The Extreme Intellectual

1606
01:44:12.760 --> 01:44:17.800
by Cyrus, Bumps by Donnie Label, and the Whistleblower by Bill Alfonso.

1607
01:44:18.840 --> 01:44:21.640
Very cool, Thanks for that tour. That's that's good that those are out

1608
01:44:21.640 --> 01:44:26.439
there. Yeah, well we got
we got them, they got it all?

1609
01:44:28.479 --> 01:44:30.520
Or is this anything you keep going
on the I'll see there's anthing worth

1610
01:44:30.560 --> 01:44:33.840
reading. Yes, the CW magazine. Do you remember seeing it on newstands

1611
01:44:33.840 --> 01:44:38.079
at the time and being like that's
pretty cool, like that they're a company

1612
01:44:38.119 --> 01:44:42.640
that justifies their own magazine. But
again, these are all not not necessarily

1613
01:44:42.720 --> 01:44:45.039
signed to the strength they would appear
to be because it's chaos and this is

1614
01:44:45.039 --> 01:44:48.720
how the Progressing Torch reports it and
uh, this is around the same point

1615
01:44:48.760 --> 01:44:54.720
in time. Cluster fuck keller rights
is the word most commonly used by wrestlers

1616
01:44:54.760 --> 01:44:58.720
to describe the pay per view that
would be living dangerously. There is growing

1617
01:44:58.800 --> 01:45:02.000
sentiment among the wrestlers that Paul Hayman
should step stream cluster wrestling that works for

1618
01:45:02.079 --> 01:45:05.600
me, I know yeah. There
is a growing sentiment among the wrestlers that

1619
01:45:05.640 --> 01:45:10.760
Paul Hayman should step down as booker
in favor of a committee approach, yet

1620
01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:13.439
retain his final say as an editor, much in the same way Vince McMahon

1621
01:45:13.520 --> 01:45:16.359
final say when Vince Russeau is running
for the WWF. Few are doubting Hayman's

1622
01:45:16.359 --> 01:45:19.119
ability as a booker, but feel
he's too involved in other business matters to

1623
01:45:19.159 --> 01:45:24.039
give booking proper time and attention.
Several wrestlers saying Hayman claims to be open

1624
01:45:24.079 --> 01:45:28.000
to suggestions but rarely use his ideas
given to him. One wrestler told the

1625
01:45:28.039 --> 01:45:30.560
Torch quote, Paul is doing everything
I know that is his style, but

1626
01:45:30.640 --> 01:45:32.720
it's starting to hurt the company.
He needs to delegate more. He has

1627
01:45:32.760 --> 01:45:35.560
people begging him to do things,
but he won't let them. They have

1628
01:45:35.640 --> 01:45:41.920
a merchandise section and a merchandise catalog
that the ads for it are cut out

1629
01:45:42.000 --> 01:45:45.520
of the Peacock version of the paper. Okay okay. With that a mail

1630
01:45:45.520 --> 01:45:47.439
away catalog, they sure did.
Wait a minute, they've got oh ware,

1631
01:45:47.760 --> 01:45:54.039
this isn't this is Oh I see
it's a it's a it's a superstore.

1632
01:45:55.079 --> 01:45:58.920
I see it's a it's not an
ECW exclusive thing. So I was

1633
01:45:58.960 --> 01:46:02.800
like, wait a minute, they've
got They've got WCW championship belts here you

1634
01:46:02.880 --> 01:46:09.960
could get you they could get the
nWo wolf Pack Version nWo Championship Belt,

1635
01:46:10.920 --> 01:46:13.840
they get four hundred and fifty bucks. You can get the big Gold Belt

1636
01:46:13.880 --> 01:46:15.680
with the nWo on it, which
you know, you could just get the

1637
01:46:15.720 --> 01:46:21.760
Big Gold Belt and do it yourself. Yeah, that's wild, that's hilarious.

1638
01:46:24.000 --> 01:46:28.920
But they would even have that what
is it? Was this a time?

1639
01:46:28.960 --> 01:46:31.119
Oh my god? The timeline they
were tied into the same publishing company

1640
01:46:31.159 --> 01:46:35.039
that Wow was, and Wow would
have kind of like cross company merchandise.

1641
01:46:35.159 --> 01:46:44.600
Sure, sure, uh they got
talk about Sunny being released from DUCW ECW

1642
01:46:44.840 --> 01:46:49.600
rather again in December ninety nine.
Yeah, that's after Paul did a a

1643
01:46:49.720 --> 01:46:55.439
several part confessional about with Tammy and
Chris talking about how addicted to drugs they

1644
01:46:55.479 --> 01:47:01.840
were. Oh my god, I
wrestlers, Keller wrote, are growing tired

1645
01:47:01.920 --> 01:47:05.640
of the company's lack of organization.
Some wrestlers complained that they weren't given their

1646
01:47:05.680 --> 01:47:10.239
match finishes until an hour before match
time. Vignettes were being taped to minutes

1647
01:47:10.279 --> 01:47:13.399
before the fans were let inside the
building. Other wrestlers were upset the show

1648
01:47:13.479 --> 01:47:15.079
ended nearly a half hour early.
That is the Living Kandersley show. You

1649
01:47:15.119 --> 01:47:18.319
didn't notice bos this is a short
run time relative to most pay per views,

1650
01:47:18.479 --> 01:47:23.560
It's very short, and Keller wrote
all the most believed the show ended

1651
01:47:23.600 --> 01:47:27.199
early due to new Jack's injury.
Many were blaming Hayman's book on the Fly

1652
01:47:27.319 --> 01:47:30.760
style and don't believe he booked enough
material. The atmosphere backstage was said to

1653
01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:33.119
be chaos. Many noted that there
were roughly one hundred and fifty people with

1654
01:47:33.239 --> 01:47:36.479
family friends, members of the production
staff, people from Acclaim Pioneer Video,

1655
01:47:36.800 --> 01:47:42.119
which distributed ACW home videos at the
time, which was another hallmark of success.

1656
01:47:42.159 --> 01:47:45.520
They were all over like fye and
you know, you go these oh

1657
01:47:45.640 --> 01:47:48.239
yeah ECB tapes for all of a
sudden everywhere. Yeah, that was that

1658
01:47:48.319 --> 01:47:49.920
was kind of the thing. I
remember that. I mean, I've talked

1659
01:47:49.920 --> 01:47:56.720
about that. How it's like you'd
go to you'd go to a Sun Coast

1660
01:47:56.840 --> 01:48:03.439
video to to get something, and
they'd have like weird, they'd have weird

1661
01:48:04.560 --> 01:48:12.640
compilations, compilation WWWE tapes, and
then they'd have or like or superstar centric

1662
01:48:12.720 --> 01:48:18.319
ones, and then they'd have Springstamped
ninety four, always Springs Stamped ninety four,

1663
01:48:19.000 --> 01:48:21.760
and then yeah, yeah, best
of Sting, and then a shit

1664
01:48:21.880 --> 01:48:28.039
ton of ECW ones until then,
you know, probably ninety eight ninety nine

1665
01:48:28.079 --> 01:48:32.760
when they started they started loading up
on and like two thousand they started loading

1666
01:48:32.800 --> 01:48:35.319
up on pay per views finally,
yeah, yeah, it was. It

1667
01:48:35.399 --> 01:48:39.239
was. It was definitely jarring to
see ECW tapes because I was always like

1668
01:48:39.239 --> 01:48:42.239
you saithing, you had to buy
underground, Like you'd go to an ECW

1669
01:48:42.359 --> 01:48:44.880
how show and RF video would have
a table and then then were they had

1670
01:48:44.920 --> 01:48:47.399
everything there, but it was like
just white labels with plain black print on

1671
01:48:47.520 --> 01:48:51.119
it of an ECW show. You
know, so weird. It is so

1672
01:48:51.239 --> 01:48:56.119
weird. So you have a TNN
et ceter backstage two in a room so

1673
01:48:56.319 --> 01:48:59.920
dark. Someone told Keller that people
were walking around with flashlights, bumping in

1674
01:49:00.119 --> 01:49:02.319
one another. One source noted,
if this company doesn't make it, it

1675
01:49:02.319 --> 01:49:06.239
will be due to the lack of
organization. Look at that so many people

1676
01:49:06.279 --> 01:49:11.640
backstage at living dangerously in such a
small underlit room that you needed to flashlight

1677
01:49:11.720 --> 01:49:15.319
this. That's crazy veteran into the
locker room. A kellor reported fear Hayman

1678
01:49:15.399 --> 01:49:19.359
is losing the younger wrestlers. Sources
say several mid carters are quietly complaining that

1679
01:49:19.439 --> 01:49:23.680
they aren't being elevated. Many so
the recent injuries suffered by Rob Van Dam,

1680
01:49:23.800 --> 01:49:26.239
Jerry Lennon, Spike Dudley is their
chance to step up, but don't

1681
01:49:26.239 --> 01:49:29.159
feel as though they've been put in
a position to do so. The wrestlers

1682
01:49:29.199 --> 01:49:31.199
are saying, don't they don't feel
part of the team theme that Hayman is

1683
01:49:31.199 --> 01:49:34.680
pushed. Sources feel Hayman needs to
elevate one of the long time undercard wrestlers

1684
01:49:34.720 --> 01:49:39.000
to set a positive example for the
mid carters. They're losing hope and don't

1685
01:49:39.000 --> 01:49:42.039
buy into the hype anymore, said
one wrestler boss. Make that kool aid

1686
01:49:42.079 --> 01:49:45.199
be coming in a bit underflavored.
Hey, uh, you know, I

1687
01:49:45.279 --> 01:49:50.720
don't. I don't want to sit
here and chudge anybody, but come on,

1688
01:49:51.079 --> 01:49:55.520
And because Paul's involved in much more
important things, he has time to

1689
01:49:55.520 --> 01:50:00.159
actually issue a statement to the Torch
in response to this of course anonymously of

1690
01:50:00.199 --> 01:50:02.720
gossip. That one that's always more
difference betwe Keller and Meltzer. You know,

1691
01:50:02.760 --> 01:50:06.920
Meltzer will report the backstage discontent as
sort of like stated as fact.

1692
01:50:09.359 --> 01:50:13.119
Keller will quote anonymous sources. That's
something Dave usually doesn't do. But that

1693
01:50:13.319 --> 01:50:16.600
used to get people so and worked
up that someone gave that quote. You

1694
01:50:16.720 --> 01:50:19.479
know, you couldn't just yell at
Keller. You had to yell at the

1695
01:50:19.560 --> 01:50:24.359
person who gave Keller the quote because
it's in quote. Ah, I love

1696
01:50:24.439 --> 01:50:27.720
that. When asked for comment,
Hayman told The Torch on Tuesday night he

1697
01:50:27.760 --> 01:50:30.600
had time to give this statement out
because he doesn't follow the sheets quote.

1698
01:50:30.439 --> 01:50:34.920
Those who feel they should have more
character development perhaps should have more character to

1699
01:50:35.000 --> 01:50:40.000
develop. Oh my god, what
a fucking idiot. Normally I would be

1700
01:50:40.039 --> 01:50:44.479
against nitpicking and criticizing others in public, But if the critics from within want

1701
01:50:44.520 --> 01:50:47.039
to criticize under the veil of vanimidity, then I have no compulsion to protect

1702
01:50:47.079 --> 01:50:51.680
them from my criticism in public.
I have never punished anyone for criticizing me

1703
01:50:51.800 --> 01:50:56.880
from within my own company ever.
Case in point two weeks after a very

1704
01:50:56.960 --> 01:51:00.800
public pissing contest with Raven, he
laid out dream in Cincinnati, took Francine

1705
01:51:00.880 --> 01:51:05.039
turn heel beat Dreamed or in the
Sea Doll You Arena, and won the

1706
01:51:05.079 --> 01:51:09.279
World Tag team title. Well,
isn't that fake? Though? That was

1707
01:51:09.319 --> 01:51:13.159
two weeks after a public pissing contest
with me. That's his point, it's

1708
01:51:13.199 --> 01:51:15.760
fake. I still let him go
even though he was having a pissing contest

1709
01:51:15.800 --> 01:51:18.920
with me, So don't complain.
I pushed Raven when he pissed me off.

1710
01:51:20.560 --> 01:51:24.119
I welcome to Actually, i'll tell
you what. I am. Pissed

1711
01:51:24.159 --> 01:51:28.439
off that you fucking pushed Raven when
wissed off at him. It was another

1712
01:51:28.479 --> 01:51:31.199
guy that came back. That's a
bad sign. Like it's good to bring

1713
01:51:31.279 --> 01:51:33.119
him back. You had to do
it. They were legends in ECW.

1714
01:51:33.319 --> 01:51:35.640
But no, it's not. It's
not good. But you think about how

1715
01:51:35.680 --> 01:51:41.279
inflated their salary expectations were by that
point, right, Yeah, jeez.

1716
01:51:42.119 --> 01:51:45.000
I would welcome criticism, even from
within, but I detest the cowardice of

1717
01:51:45.119 --> 01:51:48.439
hiding behind the label of unnamed people. If you're going to be a rebel,

1718
01:51:48.439 --> 01:51:54.039
at least have enough belief that your
rebellion is warranted and demonstrate that belief

1719
01:51:54.119 --> 01:51:58.079
by waving the flag of your revolution. Okay, Paul, excuse me,

1720
01:51:59.399 --> 01:52:02.479
shave. It's time. It's time. Yeah, dude, it's it's Listen.

1721
01:52:02.560 --> 01:52:04.960
You've been up for three days straight. Okay, you can't see.

1722
01:52:05.079 --> 01:52:08.840
You can't see two feet in front
of you. Go to bed. You

1723
01:52:08.880 --> 01:52:12.760
can say put your name to it
without it being fourteen fourteen sentences. Yeah,

1724
01:52:13.359 --> 01:52:16.199
oh my god, what a fucking
Hayman added, we elevated super Crazy

1725
01:52:16.239 --> 01:52:19.039
to main event status from mid card, and he is carrying the ball.

1726
01:52:19.399 --> 01:52:24.199
We elevated Rhino from nowhere within a
year, and he is carrying the ball.

1727
01:52:24.560 --> 01:52:27.239
We elevate it's part of the problem. But yeah, no, I're

1728
01:52:27.279 --> 01:52:31.560
waiting for you to make a convincing
case. We elevated Cyrus from the broadcast

1729
01:52:31.600 --> 01:52:33.840
booth to the lead. He loves
a company? My god, is he

1730
01:52:34.039 --> 01:52:40.319
carrying ball? No, no,
they're listen us Lovestein Kallis heart stock.

1731
01:52:40.399 --> 01:52:44.680
I can't stand that. And that's
why he's a great deal. And no,

1732
01:52:44.960 --> 01:52:47.359
no it's not. It's it's because
it's because he just looks like a

1733
01:52:47.399 --> 01:52:54.479
pedophile. Oh, ref get in
there, all right, that's the do

1734
01:52:54.560 --> 01:52:59.680
you know? Oh really? Oh
no, oh god, you Get'm excited

1735
01:52:59.720 --> 01:53:03.760
I was no, no, actually
is one. I'm just saying, who's

1736
01:53:03.800 --> 01:53:08.159
to say. It's the wrestling business, right, And he has had not

1737
01:53:08.359 --> 01:53:13.520
not not underage allegations. But the
end of his run in TNA most recently

1738
01:53:13.960 --> 01:53:17.039
came with very little detail. Let's
put it that way. He was had

1739
01:53:17.079 --> 01:53:20.960
a front office guy in TNA,
and I don't know, I don't want

1740
01:53:21.000 --> 01:53:26.600
to say more than that, but
it seemed like it seemed like inappropriate behavior

1741
01:53:26.680 --> 01:53:30.039
may have been part of the suite
of issues at play if I was reading

1742
01:53:30.039 --> 01:53:31.359
between the lines correctly. I can't
say I read it very closely, So

1743
01:53:31.760 --> 01:53:34.560
take what I say with less than
a grain of salt. But it's out

1744
01:53:34.600 --> 01:53:38.720
there to look into. Let's see
what Wikipedia has to say in fairness too

1745
01:53:40.880 --> 01:53:44.479
to mister Callous. I don't mean
to be fair to mister Callous. He's

1746
01:53:44.560 --> 01:53:47.920
callous absolutely, and he would never
heal on anybody, So I would never

1747
01:53:48.039 --> 01:53:54.720
lie about someone in public, So
he doesn't deserve it being done to him.

1748
01:53:57.039 --> 01:54:00.239
Fucking don Caallous and Tommy Dreamer stepped
in. Yeah that's that's right.

1749
01:54:01.319 --> 01:54:09.239
Yeah, just suddenly he was no
longer a president with Impact Wrestling. Yeah,

1750
01:54:09.279 --> 01:54:13.600
we'll leave it at that. Anyway, it's just funny. So here

1751
01:54:13.640 --> 01:54:15.399
he is saying, you know,
we elevated Cyrus and my god, is

1752
01:54:15.439 --> 01:54:19.119
he carrying the ball. We elevated
Jim Mitchell from a guy WCW couldnt even

1753
01:54:19.119 --> 01:54:23.119
put on their television show to the
guy that brings home the TNN show and

1754
01:54:23.199 --> 01:54:26.560
opens up our pay per views.
I'm comfortable with our track record of elevating

1755
01:54:26.600 --> 01:54:29.720
people at the right time, at
the right place, under the right circumstances

1756
01:54:29.720 --> 01:54:33.000
over the past six months. So
there you go, all speaking up for

1757
01:54:33.079 --> 01:54:36.800
himself in two thousand. That's where
you got to be. That's where you

1758
01:54:36.840 --> 01:54:41.359
got to be. He thinks TNN, in addition to eventually coming to the

1759
01:54:41.399 --> 01:54:46.640
realization that they're going to WWF thinks
TNN is not advertising them nearly enough.

1760
01:54:46.720 --> 01:54:49.760
This is the big refrain from ECW
loyalist at the time. He ends on

1761
01:54:49.840 --> 01:54:56.399
advertising that ECW's on TNN anywhere else
beyond other TNN shows, which I suppose

1762
01:54:56.520 --> 01:54:59.520
is a fair point. I don't
know how much of a expectation they had

1763
01:54:59.600 --> 01:55:01.439
in that re are. You know, they probably just gave them a line

1764
01:55:01.479 --> 01:55:04.359
of shit and then didn't do anything
and just expected the ratings to take care

1765
01:55:04.359 --> 01:55:09.880
of themselves. Yeah, so it
kind of pissed them off that DCW was

1766
01:55:09.880 --> 01:55:14.920
seen as like replaceable by raw It
is, well it is when they didn't

1767
01:55:15.079 --> 01:55:18.880
hardly do anything to try to grow
it on the network anyway. But WWF

1768
01:55:18.920 --> 01:55:21.800
officially gives notice to the USA Network
on March first, just two weeks before

1769
01:55:21.920 --> 01:55:26.720
Living Dangerously, one week even before
this show we're talking about this week Living

1770
01:55:26.800 --> 01:55:30.439
Dangerously to the USA Network that it
is canceling its contract with them, effective

1771
01:55:30.439 --> 01:55:35.880
in September when the new TV season
starts. So it's known as Living Dangerously

1772
01:55:35.960 --> 01:55:42.039
goes into the ring that WWF is
not going to renew with USA. Wow,

1773
01:55:42.319 --> 01:55:45.560
whether people necessarily connected the dots that
they're going to TNN. Perhaps Hayman

1774
01:55:45.600 --> 01:55:47.159
was in a position to connect those
dots, being you know, plugged in,

1775
01:55:47.760 --> 01:55:53.920
but I'm not sure the public written
large necessarily made that connection. The

1776
01:55:54.000 --> 01:55:59.279
HEAT contract also expiring at that point
in time as well. So here's Hayman

1777
01:56:00.439 --> 01:56:03.279
on TNN. Okay, well,
he expected it to be on TNN.

1778
01:56:04.680 --> 01:56:13.680
He's realizing as the worm is turning
here that his time on TNN is is

1779
01:56:13.840 --> 01:56:20.079
not not open ended. And what
he does is he sends them a tape

1780
01:56:20.560 --> 01:56:27.239
of him looking into the camera and
just skewing them. This is late,

1781
01:56:27.319 --> 01:56:30.439
This is after living Dangerously. I
think this air is in June, if

1782
01:56:30.439 --> 01:56:34.159
I'm not mistaken, of two thousand. But the symptoms of why he would

1783
01:56:34.159 --> 01:56:38.239
come to do this start to foment
around this time at e c W.

1784
01:56:39.039 --> 01:56:44.399
Listen to what Paul Haman sent on
his television show to be true actual,

1785
01:56:44.560 --> 01:56:47.880
these are actual, uh he cuts
in the pocket. The CCW television show

1786
01:56:56.840 --> 01:57:00.239
The Night's Program features some controversial footage. In fact, it was so contro

1787
01:57:00.359 --> 01:57:05.680
arsal it was censored by TNN,
an MTV network, and you will see

1788
01:57:05.720 --> 01:57:12.079
it here tonight, and you are
going to see the comments made by the

1789
01:57:12.159 --> 01:57:15.520
owner and executive producer of this company, Paul Hayman, comments that were too

1790
01:57:15.640 --> 01:57:24.119
controversal for TNN. TNN is an
EMPTV network MTV which featured Beavis and butthead

1791
01:57:24.399 --> 01:57:30.279
now features Tom Green talk about his
missing testicle and Loveline talks about premature ejaculation

1792
01:57:30.640 --> 01:57:36.600
and multiple orgass But Paul Hayman is
too controversalos. My name is Paul Haman,

1793
01:57:38.359 --> 01:57:42.680
and I'm the executive producer and the
owner of Extreme Championship Wrestling. And

1794
01:57:42.840 --> 01:57:45.520
since this show apparently is gonna make
air this walk about. I'd like to

1795
01:57:45.600 --> 01:57:49.199
take this moment to thank you for
watching ECW. You have to be an

1796
01:57:49.199 --> 01:57:53.800
ECW fan to watch this show,
because God knows, the network has never

1797
01:57:53.880 --> 01:57:57.560
put out one freaking commercial or one
press release to let you know that we're

1798
01:57:57.600 --> 01:58:01.159
here. But that's their scheme of
things to see. In just a few

1799
01:58:01.199 --> 01:58:05.479
weeks, the network is gonna give
one hundred million dollars to Vince McMahon like

1800
01:58:05.640 --> 01:58:11.760
he needs it to replace us in
case they haven't thrown us off before then.

1801
01:58:12.600 --> 01:58:15.880
And the fact of the matter is, we're not a publicly funded company

1802
01:58:15.039 --> 01:58:21.760
like Vince McMahon or WCW. We
survive or even thrive on your support,

1803
01:58:21.880 --> 01:58:26.920
and for that we thank you.
Now. In an industry where everybody wants

1804
01:58:26.960 --> 01:58:30.720
to be real, everybody wants to
do a shoot, this, my friends,

1805
01:58:30.079 --> 01:58:34.640
is a shoot. We hate this
stinking network. We hate their guts

1806
01:58:34.840 --> 01:58:39.600
for abandoning us, We hate their
guts for not supporting us, we hate

1807
01:58:39.600 --> 01:58:43.279
their guts for not advertising us,
and we hate their guts for not having

1808
01:58:43.359 --> 01:58:46.119
the balls to throw us off the
air. And just in case you're watching

1809
01:58:46.159 --> 01:58:49.479
this, hey network, I dare
you to throw me off the air,

1810
01:58:49.880 --> 01:58:54.359
because I'm gonna break every rule that
you put in front of me until you

1811
01:58:54.560 --> 01:58:58.600
throw me the hell off the air. Now, this, my friends,

1812
01:58:59.279 --> 01:59:03.000
is a shoot. You better take
that hundred million dollars that you're gonna give

1813
01:59:03.079 --> 01:59:10.119
Vince McMahon, and you better spend
it on attorneys, because I promise you

1814
01:59:10.279 --> 01:59:18.399
Network the war has just because I'd
like to take this personal time to say

1815
01:59:18.479 --> 01:59:24.359
hello to all of my executives,
friends and TNN, the ones who have

1816
01:59:24.439 --> 01:59:31.479
been incarcerated for smuggling underage farm animals
across state lines for the purposes of sexual

1817
01:59:31.600 --> 01:59:35.840
gratification. But at least while they
were doing it, they were safe about

1818
01:59:35.920 --> 01:59:44.520
it. They only picked the calves
that didn't kick back. I didn't include

1819
01:59:44.560 --> 01:59:47.039
it there. But then Paul Hayman
puts his head in the frame and goes,

1820
01:59:47.279 --> 01:59:50.800
how do you like that pigfuckers or
something like that, and they bleep.

1821
01:59:51.079 --> 01:59:54.960
I mean, of course, I
hate Joel. Yeah, that's a

1822
01:59:55.000 --> 01:59:58.800
whole get that's a whole other things. He spent a lotime in the ring

1823
01:59:58.880 --> 02:00:02.119
of the The feud was versus Cyrus
the virus, the Network representative. In

1824
02:00:02.199 --> 02:00:10.560
some ways, he is such a
vile individual, like just the fucking absolute

1825
02:00:11.920 --> 02:00:15.239
worst of humanity, takes a long
time to get from the point of his

1826
02:00:15.399 --> 02:00:20.960
chin to his chest a long It
takes a long time to do one rotation

1827
02:00:23.159 --> 02:00:27.640
right, one rotation around his entire
physique. So there you have, Paul

1828
02:00:27.720 --> 02:00:30.680
try you know, that's the Cyrus
character. I just I just don't,

1829
02:00:30.800 --> 02:00:33.159
okay, but I just don't understand
it. Sounds like a delight to deal

1830
02:00:33.239 --> 02:00:38.880
with. Huh. He sounds like
a great business partner there. Well,

1831
02:00:39.159 --> 02:00:46.279
uh, Paul, I saw I
saw what you put on the television there,

1832
02:00:46.760 --> 02:00:51.239
on your your little TV show.
Just kind of what's what's the deal?

1833
02:00:51.319 --> 02:00:54.960
Pal? Do you think this was
going to improve things between us?

1834
02:00:55.399 --> 02:00:58.560
I mean, look, I don't. I don't. I'm not trying to,

1835
02:00:59.279 --> 02:01:01.680
you know, but listen, we're
happy to have you guys, all

1836
02:01:01.760 --> 02:01:05.199
right, you know, you guys
push the envelope with still the network guy.

1837
02:01:08.039 --> 02:01:10.000
They've got a whole new like thing, but it's still that guy.

1838
02:01:15.399 --> 02:01:19.000
You know. We're just we're just
you know, we we we've allowed you

1839
02:01:19.079 --> 02:01:23.000
to kind of have your Look.
We believe in the freedom of speech,

1840
02:01:23.800 --> 02:01:25.920
all right, we believe it.
I mean, especially as we're making that

1841
02:01:26.000 --> 02:01:31.119
transition to being the the more national
network as opposed to just being the the

1842
02:01:31.199 --> 02:01:33.840
relative Nashville network. You know,
we're trying to we're trying to open up,

1843
02:01:35.399 --> 02:01:41.079
and uh, I just uh,
you know, I don't know what

1844
02:01:42.560 --> 02:01:44.920
do you? What do you?
I don't know. I forget the term.

1845
02:01:45.039 --> 02:01:50.960
You've used the terms before in my
office there are you call me a

1846
02:01:51.000 --> 02:01:55.760
pig fucker? Is what you called
me? You call me a pig,

1847
02:01:56.640 --> 02:02:00.960
a pig farmer? I won't use
that word, all right, And then

1848
02:02:02.079 --> 02:02:04.199
you know, under the eyes of
God, I'm not going to use those

1849
02:02:04.239 --> 02:02:11.279
words. But I guess what are
you? I forget? I apologize,

1850
02:02:11.319 --> 02:02:15.960
I don't. I don't know the
wrestling terms? Or are you? Is

1851
02:02:16.039 --> 02:02:20.319
this a work? Or are you
gunning me down? I thought you didn't

1852
02:02:20.319 --> 02:02:25.359
know the wrestling terms. Well I'm
trying to remember one. I remember work,

1853
02:02:28.000 --> 02:02:29.880
so is that it? Or are
you going to a job? Are

1854
02:02:29.920 --> 02:02:33.720
you from a traditional television back or
are you are you or are you gunning

1855
02:02:33.800 --> 02:02:36.239
me down? Is that what it
is too? If you're not, what's

1856
02:02:36.279 --> 02:02:40.520
what's real and what's phony? Blogny? I mean, I know everything you

1857
02:02:40.600 --> 02:02:43.000
do is phony blogna, but I
just want to know exactly what it is

1858
02:02:43.600 --> 02:02:46.279
because because I don't, I'm a
little lost here and I'm all I have

1859
02:02:46.359 --> 02:02:49.520
to tell you, as much as
we know appreciate having you, I don't

1860
02:02:49.600 --> 02:02:53.880
have to spend anywhere near this amount
of energy with anybody else that's on our

1861
02:02:53.920 --> 02:02:58.439
airways, including companies and and and
production companies that do ratings tantamount to yours

1862
02:02:58.479 --> 02:03:00.399
and frankly draw better ad rates the
fact that I have to spend this much

1863
02:03:00.520 --> 02:03:06.479
time decoding what you're saying is I
think definitely a reflection of time not well

1864
02:03:06.520 --> 02:03:12.439
spent. There's an opportunity cost here, Paul, What I mean, what

1865
02:03:12.600 --> 02:03:15.680
is some thing I can't remember stand
half of the things in this business.

1866
02:03:15.680 --> 02:03:18.840
You guys are excuse me, I'm
all about. I'm all about you know,

1867
02:03:19.199 --> 02:03:24.960
just here you are we have this
kind of you know, we're investing

1868
02:03:25.039 --> 02:03:28.479
time in ethodemically. I just but
I'm just I just want to know when

1869
02:03:28.520 --> 02:03:31.399
I'm going to get a return on
my investment in the time that I've given

1870
02:03:31.439 --> 02:03:39.359
you. You like what I just
I want to understand and I want you

1871
02:03:39.520 --> 02:03:42.000
to understand. I wanted us to
be on the same page. But all

1872
02:03:42.039 --> 02:03:51.600
I see is is just this kind
of absurd just it looks like one big

1873
02:03:53.920 --> 02:04:01.000
circus, a violent, you know, derogatory and im moral circus, and

1874
02:04:01.520 --> 02:04:04.680
we put up with a certain amount
of that. We realize this is the

1875
02:04:04.760 --> 02:04:08.880
two thousands, Paul. We do. That's why we entered into business with

1876
02:04:08.960 --> 02:04:11.039
you. But then all of a
sudden, I got this, you looking

1877
02:04:11.079 --> 02:04:15.119
into the camera on our show and
calling us, you know, basically every

1878
02:04:15.199 --> 02:04:17.560
name of the book. I mean, where did you get the idea that

1879
02:04:17.640 --> 02:04:23.600
that was? Where did? I
mean? I don't have we have we

1880
02:04:23.760 --> 02:04:29.239
wronged you in some fashion that I'm
not aware of because I'm national television.

1881
02:04:29.239 --> 02:04:30.640
How I just want to tell you. I want to tell you these guys,

1882
02:04:30.920 --> 02:04:34.039
these boys of yours she got there, They're not They're not going to

1883
02:04:34.119 --> 02:04:38.319
make it on TV anywhere else.
I've seen it. I've seen them.

1884
02:04:38.880 --> 02:04:42.399
They got they got faces for radio, and they got faces not even for

1885
02:04:42.560 --> 02:04:46.920
radio. And and I just don't
appreciate being called a you know, a

1886
02:04:46.960 --> 02:04:54.880
pig fornicator, a swine fornicator.
All right, So so I want to

1887
02:04:54.960 --> 02:05:00.279
get I want to get on the
same page here, and and I want

1888
02:05:00.319 --> 02:05:04.479
to understand what is it? You
know, you know, obviously you guys

1889
02:05:04.520 --> 02:05:11.479
are extreme, and how can we
be extreme enough to do business? Call

1890
02:05:11.600 --> 02:05:18.840
me back, dude, that was
a voicemail. So you heard reference to

1891
02:05:18.960 --> 02:05:25.000
it. That promo was actually from
the ECW syndicated television show, because when

1892
02:05:25.039 --> 02:05:31.520
it aired on ECW on TNN,
they muted Paul Hayman's voice. What he's

1893
02:05:31.600 --> 02:05:34.920
talking, his lips are moving,
He's looking into the camera intently, but

1894
02:05:35.520 --> 02:05:41.239
not a word he says is broadcast
over the TNN airwaves, and on the

1895
02:05:41.279 --> 02:05:45.880
bottom off screen, this text scrolls, please ignore this gentleman's temper tantrum.

1896
02:05:46.920 --> 02:05:50.880
Could it be that he's been thrown
through too many tables? TNN Harbor's no

1897
02:05:50.920 --> 02:05:58.119
ill feelings against DCW. TNN fully
supports CCW Wrestling and all of its redeeming

1898
02:05:58.239 --> 02:06:02.319
qualities to be the smarmy son of
a mitch that wrote that copy. Huh,

1899
02:06:03.479 --> 02:06:05.560
all right, I mean this is
war. Hey, Hey, I

1900
02:06:05.680 --> 02:06:10.359
need you guys in my office right
now. Family, Maiden Family. I

1901
02:06:10.479 --> 02:06:13.720
just all right, we're having will
come to Jesus here, all right now.

1902
02:06:13.800 --> 02:06:15.560
Listen. I just love to voicemail
for Paul Hammon. All right.

1903
02:06:15.640 --> 02:06:20.920
I just tried to. I tried
to kind of like just trying to let

1904
02:06:21.000 --> 02:06:26.159
him think that we're trying to get
on the same page. Here's what I

1905
02:06:26.239 --> 02:06:29.319
want you to do. Now I've
seen this video, all right, We've

1906
02:06:29.359 --> 02:06:31.359
all seen this video. Calls me, I believe a pig fornicator at the

1907
02:06:31.479 --> 02:06:36.479
end, calls me, he calls
me a swine fornicator. I don't fornicate

1908
02:06:36.520 --> 02:06:44.439
with swine. I eat it.
I don't fornicate with fight being in business

1909
02:06:44.600 --> 02:06:46.720
with ECW and what that might tell
you. So I want to this is

1910
02:06:46.760 --> 02:06:54.840
what's gonna happen, all right now, I want you to silence that meglamoniacal

1911
02:06:54.960 --> 02:06:59.840
son of a fingo. No,
yeah, Bob comes out from God.

1912
02:07:00.079 --> 02:07:06.960
I'm gonna kill that mother right.
So what I want you to do is

1913
02:07:08.000 --> 02:07:13.880
I want you to erase his goddamn
motherfucking voice, little Racing, and then

1914
02:07:13.920 --> 02:07:17.720
you put some some bullshit statements saying
that we support E c W and all

1915
02:07:17.760 --> 02:07:21.640
their horseshit and all the fucking bullshit
the minds of contracting good faith and all

1916
02:07:21.720 --> 02:07:25.680
that run up by the laws.
Do all that ship, you know,

1917
02:07:25.840 --> 02:07:28.159
make it make it sound good,
make it sound like we're talking with the

1918
02:07:28.199 --> 02:07:31.039
grace of God and all that horse
shit. But I want you to fuck

1919
02:07:31.119 --> 02:07:38.399
him up, and I'm want to
destroy that motherfucker. Nobody talks like that

1920
02:07:38.520 --> 02:07:42.880
to me. Temper tantrum on our
airwaves. Are you we're gonna throw him

1921
02:07:42.920 --> 02:07:45.960
off? Thinks he's gonna force our
hand. I've dealt with titans. I

1922
02:07:46.079 --> 02:07:48.920
bet at the table with some of
the Redstone, Okay, I bet at

1923
02:07:48.960 --> 02:07:54.800
the table with Brandon Tartakoff. This
guy ain't shit of my cowboy boot.

1924
02:07:55.760 --> 02:08:01.119
We are at the goddamn national man's
that's that you missed. You're not dealing

1925
02:08:01.159 --> 02:08:03.920
with the Nashville network anymore. You're
dealing with the guys behind the Nashville Network

1926
02:08:03.960 --> 02:08:09.560
who decided they're going national. We're
not the goddamn little territorial motherfuckers. We're

1927
02:08:09.600 --> 02:08:16.720
gonna kill and I don't want to
eat him alive. I'm gonna have me

1928
02:08:18.720 --> 02:08:28.800
of Paul Hayman sized latkeey Oh Ship
sour cream. It's not goddamn homemade apple

1929
02:08:28.840 --> 02:08:37.600
sauce from my wife. Kill the
motherfucker that that's that's an underreported part of

1930
02:08:37.640 --> 02:08:41.319
this. Is an addition to muting
his voice and putting that smarmy text on

1931
02:08:41.359 --> 02:08:46.079
the screen, they also sent a
mail bomb to his house. It's true.

1932
02:08:46.920 --> 02:08:54.039
Can you imagine that DNA supports ECW
Wrestling and all of its redeeming qualities?

1933
02:08:54.800 --> 02:08:58.159
As I want Here's here's what I
want to have happen as that is

1934
02:08:58.279 --> 02:09:05.600
playing and that exacts that is playing
on the air. I want to hire

1935
02:09:05.640 --> 02:09:11.880
a team of men with guns to
bombard his house and shoot those motherfuckers after

1936
02:09:11.960 --> 02:09:16.960
death. You mean his mother's house, to be clear, I don't get

1937
02:09:18.319 --> 02:09:22.479
are you fucking kidding that mother?
Fine? I don't give a ship where

1938
02:09:22.479 --> 02:09:28.319
the fuck he lives. I want
him dead, and I want the men

1939
02:09:28.439 --> 02:09:31.319
wearing the goddamn outfits. I want
these men with guns, this swapped team

1940
02:09:31.359 --> 02:09:35.439
of sorts. I want them to
be wearing TNN logos. I want him

1941
02:09:35.479 --> 02:09:39.880
to know because this, ladies and
Gentlemen, is the new TNN. This

1942
02:09:41.039 --> 02:09:46.119
is the new goddamn TNN. And
I want to know exactly who fucking killed

1943
02:09:46.199 --> 02:09:52.279
him. In fact, you know
what, put pictures of men put him

1944
02:09:52.279 --> 02:09:58.319
on their fucking chest, me smiling, smile at that motherfucker has the bullet

1945
02:09:58.600 --> 02:10:07.560
through his body. Fucking I'm gonna
lead that goddamn tan. I'm going to

1946
02:10:07.680 --> 02:10:11.840
lead the team to the Haymans,
and I want to fucking shoot him in

1947
02:10:11.840 --> 02:10:15.640
the head. By the time it's
over, its fault as far as Paul

1948
02:10:15.680 --> 02:10:20.680
Haman is concerned, you can call
us the Nightmare Network and I want to

1949
02:10:20.720 --> 02:10:26.600
be skullfucking his mom. So yeah, that's kind of how it went down.

1950
02:10:28.439 --> 02:10:31.520
Oh, by the way, the
grammarian who wrote this smart ass copy

1951
02:10:31.119 --> 02:10:35.840
wrote it's with an apostrophe, so
apparently it's ECW wrestling and all of it

1952
02:10:35.000 --> 02:10:41.960
his redeeming quality. Good good work
there. I wanted to find this on

1953
02:10:43.079 --> 02:10:46.119
Peacock because I know ECW on TNN
and its entirety was on the network gone

1954
02:10:46.720 --> 02:10:52.479
scrubbed. Why of course, where's
the CW on TNN. What's the problem,

1955
02:10:52.560 --> 02:10:56.399
folks, what's the problem. What
isn't the problem? That's the question.

1956
02:10:56.560 --> 02:11:01.600
It's because it's a CBS viacom work
that it aired on, but it

1957
02:11:01.720 --> 02:11:07.039
was episodes of Russia Be Gone Too
from Yeah, I remember when they launched

1958
02:11:07.079 --> 02:11:13.039
the network. Everyone was on there
really really questionable, and I got,

1959
02:11:13.039 --> 02:11:16.279
did you do it? Did you
happen to do a search for it?

1960
02:11:16.039 --> 02:11:20.560
I tried everything, okay, because
I know, I know sometimes I've looked

1961
02:11:20.600 --> 02:11:24.439
for shows like in the actual like
just scrolling through it to find it,

1962
02:11:24.720 --> 02:11:26.720
and I can't find the unless they
do a search, Like I know,

1963
02:11:26.760 --> 02:11:30.760
I couldn't find Tuesday in Texas.
Ridiculous the other day, I was looking

1964
02:11:30.800 --> 02:11:33.399
for Tuesday and Texas to mommy,
and I couldn't fucking find one guy like

1965
02:11:33.479 --> 02:11:37.600
fifty grand you know, who has
a passion for this stuff and it'll be

1966
02:11:37.640 --> 02:11:41.239
fixed in like a year or even
half a passion. Fuck stead, we

1967
02:11:41.319 --> 02:11:43.920
have to give it to somebody who's
dealing with like a million different video files

1968
02:11:43.960 --> 02:11:50.880
and doesn't know WWF from fucking qv
QVC whatever. That's that's a losing battle.

1969
02:11:50.880 --> 02:11:52.239
I'm pretty sure we'll lose access to
all this soon anyway. Not the

1970
02:11:52.279 --> 02:11:56.640
wor worried about it, of course, because we're the fucking TLF Solar system.

1971
02:11:56.319 --> 02:12:01.319
But let's just say it's not gonna
gett I know. It's even worse

1972
02:12:01.479 --> 02:12:05.319
is I found instances, you know, links to the files of ECW and

1973
02:12:05.359 --> 02:12:09.159
TNN on Peacock. So not only
did they not only is it gone,

1974
02:12:09.439 --> 02:12:16.239
they migrated it and then took it
away. That's crazy or what the story

1975
02:12:16.359 --> 02:12:20.199
is? What was it? I
mean? Yeah, but it's it's a

1976
02:12:20.279 --> 02:12:24.039
damn shame. They do have hardcore
TV up there, which is get I'm

1977
02:12:24.079 --> 02:12:26.039
in an ECW wrestling thing right now, and this is from nineteen ninety nine

1978
02:12:26.039 --> 02:12:30.560
to two thousand. Is that it
is that TNN. I don't know,

1979
02:12:30.760 --> 02:12:35.279
doesn't say TNN. What are the
what's the last episode? That's a good

1980
02:12:35.359 --> 02:12:39.319
question. I don't know why they
would have changed the peacock links to where

1981
02:12:39.319 --> 02:12:43.680
there's de October October sixth, two
thousand? Is it October sixth? Probably

1982
02:12:43.680 --> 02:12:46.960
it? Thanks for that I was
talking all this shit. Well, no,

1983
02:12:46.079 --> 02:12:48.880
hey, it happens. I mean
again, Yeah, you can't find

1984
02:12:48.920 --> 02:12:50.079
it all the time. It's just
it's just ECW wrestling. If you go

1985
02:12:50.119 --> 02:12:54.960
into the ECW it used to be
on there is w TN. No,

1986
02:12:54.079 --> 02:12:56.760
they don't have that. It's just
ECW wrestling. Then. See when I

1987
02:12:56.800 --> 02:13:00.560
see east W Wrestling, I think
that that's hardcore TV. But I think,

1988
02:13:00.680 --> 02:13:03.119
but they have ECW hardcore TV as
well. It's a separate thing.

1989
02:13:03.239 --> 02:13:05.119
Okay, good, we'll see.
We worked this out in the air.

1990
02:13:05.760 --> 02:13:07.520
Yeah, but you can tell a
sensitive I am about shit disappearing because I

1991
02:13:07.560 --> 02:13:11.640
don't have time to make sure everything, you know what I mean, it

1992
02:13:11.680 --> 02:13:16.640
is still there. I know,
I know. Let's take a look e

1993
02:13:16.279 --> 02:13:22.439
C Double Q Wrestling. Okay,
two seasons, No, that's hardcore TV.

1994
02:13:24.920 --> 02:13:31.319
See if I'm hard to ascertained if
this is TNN. Okay, here

1995
02:13:31.399 --> 02:13:35.319
it is. Yep, yep,
this is it. August twenty seventh,

1996
02:13:35.359 --> 02:13:37.800
ninety nine is when it started.
It's almost like they don't want to say

1997
02:13:37.880 --> 02:13:41.119
TNN. I think that's the problem, right right. I agree they used

1998
02:13:41.119 --> 02:13:43.119
to identify it as such. Okay, I take it back. That might

1999
02:13:43.159 --> 02:13:46.960
be a that might be an NBC
thing that makes sense, like, really,

2000
02:13:46.000 --> 02:13:50.119
what is TNN? I would want
to have that on the on Peacock,

2001
02:13:50.479 --> 02:13:54.039
you know, all right, I
take it back. When I saw

2002
02:13:54.119 --> 02:13:56.279
that dead link, it set me
off because I thought they took it away

2003
02:13:56.319 --> 02:14:00.079
from us, But they might have
just changed what they called it. The

2004
02:14:00.159 --> 02:14:03.880
catalog. Ye. Actually, it's
funny. You want something funny. I'm

2005
02:14:03.920 --> 02:14:09.119
looking at the link right now.
It's one of It's Peacock TV dot com

2006
02:14:09.199 --> 02:14:15.199
slash Watch, slash Asset, Slash
Sports slash ECW on TNA. There you

2007
02:14:15.239 --> 02:14:18.239
go. Yeah, yeah, I
used to be called that. I know

2008
02:14:18.359 --> 02:14:20.920
it did, because that's why I
thought it was gone. I know on

2009
02:14:20.960 --> 02:14:22.399
the network it was called ec W
on TNN because that's how you could tell

2010
02:14:22.399 --> 02:14:28.520
the difference between that and hardcore TV. Bizarre. This is bizarre. So

2011
02:14:28.600 --> 02:14:31.279
you see Rob zan Dam's got a
boot on, right, Well, where's

2012
02:14:31.279 --> 02:14:35.199
the thing. I want to know
what episode was that on? Oh it

2013
02:14:35.279 --> 02:14:37.800
was in June. June. Yeah, you can find them more on YouTube

2014
02:14:37.800 --> 02:14:41.880
if you really want to see it. Oh right, But the point is

2015
02:14:41.960 --> 02:14:46.479
they send it to their syndicated stations
as well. So people did hear the

2016
02:14:46.520 --> 02:14:52.520
actual promo and record it for posterity. I don't know if ten and counted

2017
02:14:52.560 --> 02:14:54.760
on that or not, but as
far as their networks are concerned, and

2018
02:14:54.800 --> 02:14:58.319
what was it within their control,
they muted it. Mm hmmm. I

2019
02:14:58.399 --> 02:15:01.800
bet that or mentioned Nashville network exec
was working the phones all night trying to

2020
02:15:01.840 --> 02:15:05.239
call every single market ec W had
syndication in to see if they can.

2021
02:15:05.439 --> 02:15:07.680
I need a list, all right, somebody give me a goddamn list the

2022
02:15:09.239 --> 02:15:13.439
KBR the fucking places that they are. And then wait, you did you

2023
02:15:13.479 --> 02:15:16.600
show a c W? Do you
show you the extreme ship? It's eleven

2024
02:15:16.680 --> 02:15:18.239
thirty at night. I don't give
a ship. What talent is? I

2025
02:15:18.359 --> 02:15:22.720
need to know exactly right now?
Do you show that ec W fucking extreme

2026
02:15:22.800 --> 02:15:26.640
shit? So if you're gonna curse
at me, I can't help you.

2027
02:15:26.800 --> 02:15:28.800
Oh you're gonna help me, all
right. I'm gonna come down there and

2028
02:15:28.840 --> 02:15:35.079
I'm gonna strangle you to death?
Where is the fucking ec W? Sorry,

2029
02:15:35.079 --> 02:15:37.399
sir, I don't have to deal
with pigfuckers like this on the phone.

2030
02:15:39.479 --> 02:15:46.239
God, God, you fucking cut, fucking bitch. Guess having a

2031
02:15:46.279 --> 02:15:52.600
great night. Send him the tape
and see if they've got a problem with

2032
02:15:52.760 --> 02:15:58.840
what I got to say. Say. So, uh, you notice Van

2033
02:16:00.199 --> 02:16:03.960
has a walking boot on? Right? I didn't actually, but you didn't

2034
02:16:03.960 --> 02:16:07.079
notice that he comes in on Scotty
Rigg's back and is like limping around on

2035
02:16:07.159 --> 02:16:09.960
the show. I you know what. I was trying to just get through

2036
02:16:11.039 --> 02:16:13.600
it. So geez, So I
just was probably doing other shit. It's

2037
02:16:13.640 --> 02:16:18.279
in the main event too, and
he brawls a bit with Rhino and company.

2038
02:16:18.880 --> 02:16:20.159
Because let's see if I even let
me see if I'll tell you what

2039
02:16:20.319 --> 02:16:24.399
this is what I definitely know if
I if I if I noticed it or

2040
02:16:24.439 --> 02:16:28.079
not, And let's see if I
noticed him coming out in my notes on

2041
02:16:28.199 --> 02:16:31.680
the thing he was on Scotty's shoulders. She must have been a note of

2042
02:16:31.720 --> 02:16:35.520
that. Nope, I didn't.
It's so ridiculous. I didn't. I

2043
02:16:35.600 --> 02:16:39.479
just then my my things are then
to Jerry comes down, r v D

2044
02:16:39.559 --> 02:16:43.559
and Alfonso come down, and then
next thing is already puts Rhino through a

2045
02:16:43.600 --> 02:16:46.840
table. Oh my god. Okay, that's pretty funny. You didn't notice

2046
02:16:46.879 --> 02:16:50.680
he had a Bobby Duncombe football jersey
on because Bobby Duncan Junior had just died.

2047
02:16:50.920 --> 02:16:56.000
Yeah, Bobby dunclem Junior coming to
ECW and then died. When when

2048
02:16:56.040 --> 02:16:58.319
you're when I'm minutes away from finishing
ECW show, it's just like, let's

2049
02:16:58.360 --> 02:17:01.440
just get through this show. Amazing, all right, So he had broken

2050
02:17:01.479 --> 02:17:05.360
his foot on a house show,
wasn't on television, so there's no footage

2051
02:17:05.360 --> 02:17:07.159
of it. Wrestling Rhino on January
twenty ninth of two thousand. He broke

2052
02:17:07.200 --> 02:17:11.959
it sounds like a TV show right
there, right and wrestling Rhino. What

2053
02:17:13.159 --> 02:17:15.879
is it? Wrestling Rhino? Yeah? It could be a fucking reality show

2054
02:17:15.959 --> 02:17:18.879
right there, wrestling Rhino. Yeah, that's that's something else that a Robin

2055
02:17:18.920 --> 02:17:24.239
could have trained. So do you
think considering Van Dam's high flag offense and

2056
02:17:24.239 --> 02:17:26.440
all the risks he took, you
know, he broke his foot and just

2057
02:17:26.479 --> 02:17:28.680
doing a baseball slide, right,
of course, that's the business. I'm

2058
02:17:28.680 --> 02:17:33.799
surprised he didn't like I'm surprised he
didn't make it break his leg like lighting

2059
02:17:33.879 --> 02:17:39.200
a fucking joint. So this is
rather significant because Rob Vandam had held the

2060
02:17:39.239 --> 02:17:43.959
television title for almost two years.
It was like the longest long term storytelling

2061
02:17:43.040 --> 02:17:48.239
going on in ECW and it was
it just it exploded his run. It

2062
02:17:48.319 --> 02:17:52.520
was almost like, I'm trying to
think of someone who held the IC title

2063
02:17:52.639 --> 02:17:54.600
so long that you were just dying
for them to win the WWF title.

2064
02:17:56.479 --> 02:18:01.879
Honky talking man, I guess you
could say that, Yeah, who held

2065
02:18:01.920 --> 02:18:05.719
it for so long? A Warrior
maybe? Maybe? Yeah, maybe Warrior?

2066
02:18:05.920 --> 02:18:09.440
Yep, Savage. Yeah, so
Savage is a good one. You

2067
02:18:09.559 --> 02:18:11.200
know it's coming, you know,
and it's just what are we going to

2068
02:18:11.200 --> 02:18:13.879
get there when it's the time going
to be right? But for now,

2069
02:18:13.959 --> 02:18:18.280
the story is this incredibly long title
reign against all manner of opponents. But

2070
02:18:18.520 --> 02:18:20.280
when he breaks his foot, it
creates or his ankle, it creates a

2071
02:18:20.319 --> 02:18:22.680
big question mark as to when and
how we're going to do this. And

2072
02:18:22.760 --> 02:18:28.360
again heat on Kallus as the network
representative Cyrus. They have Cyrus because he's

2073
02:18:28.399 --> 02:18:31.520
TNN and he's heel and he wants
to do everything that pisses the fans off.

2074
02:18:31.639 --> 02:18:33.920
Yeah, I'm sure there are a
lot of employees at ten and look

2075
02:18:35.079 --> 02:18:39.120
just like him. I'm sure he
forces Van Dam to forfeit his long held

2076
02:18:39.159 --> 02:18:43.000
television championship, which really, of
all the things they could have done at

2077
02:18:43.040 --> 02:18:45.079
the time, he is one of
the biggest heat getting things. Considering the

2078
02:18:45.200 --> 02:18:50.440
very real history behind Vandam holding that
belt. He in fact confronts Paul Hayman

2079
02:18:50.479 --> 02:18:52.479
in the middle of the ring on
ECW before he confronts RVD and tells him

2080
02:18:52.479 --> 02:18:56.559
he's going to do it, and
and Hayman clutches the belt sort of as

2081
02:18:56.559 --> 02:19:00.840
if he's trying to protect the belt
from the evil network that as it has

2082
02:19:00.920 --> 02:19:05.360
a say over what he does.
But he's fighting against the network on television

2083
02:19:05.399 --> 02:19:07.399
and storyline as well as in reality. That's that's what's going on at this

2084
02:19:07.799 --> 02:19:11.719
time. God, I'm so annoying. Yeah, Cyrus telling Hayman in the

2085
02:19:11.799 --> 02:19:15.920
ring you will bend over for the
network, and Hayman and his leather trench

2086
02:19:16.000 --> 02:19:18.280
coat clutching the belt and then he
cracks down Kallas in the head. Does

2087
02:19:18.360 --> 02:19:24.520
Paul Hayman okay with the ECW Television
Championship and then Rhino goores him, So

2088
02:19:24.600 --> 02:19:28.319
Haman putting himself out there to elevate
this angle as well. And then finally

2089
02:19:28.360 --> 02:19:31.239
it comes down to it, there's
nowhere to hide, there's no way to

2090
02:19:31.319 --> 02:19:35.719
litigate a round it. Cyrus has
the power to force Rob Van Dam to

2091
02:19:35.799 --> 02:19:39.479
vacate his long held DCW Television Championship
due to injury and inability to defend.

2092
02:19:41.079 --> 02:19:45.760
And here's how it plays out.
Well, other wrestlers have left DCW for

2093
02:19:45.879 --> 02:19:50.479
what they fought with greener pastors.
If some of them have return, all

2094
02:19:50.559 --> 02:19:54.840
the fans knew they could count on
one thing throughout this whole time. When

2095
02:19:54.879 --> 02:20:00.319
they bought their ticket to see ACW, they knew they were going to get

2096
02:20:00.479 --> 02:20:09.319
what they pay to sea. And
that's me go ho, that's because of

2097
02:20:09.399 --> 02:20:13.520
this piece of metal that I'm holding. Got to that you're gonna take all

2098
02:20:13.600 --> 02:20:16.520
that away from a c W,
all that time that I've invested, these

2099
02:20:16.600 --> 02:20:20.719
fans have invested, They're gonna take
that away from us and put us back

2100
02:20:20.760 --> 02:20:33.159
to doing house shows. A c
W will continue on T N N And

2101
02:20:33.280 --> 02:20:35.879
all I got to say to you, Cyrus, to put a bottom line

2102
02:20:35.959 --> 02:20:41.760
on this is good luck fighting somebody
to fill the shoes of the standard I've

2103
02:20:41.879 --> 02:20:54.000
said is the a c W World
Television champion, don't fully what do you

2104
02:20:54.159 --> 02:21:00.879
bring me to the dick if she
won that title one book shop only two

2105
02:21:01.079 --> 02:21:05.680
year champion in wrestling, it rap
the hats one we'll never see rom Ban

2106
02:21:05.760 --> 02:21:11.600
Damn has relinquished the point. Whoever
it is that you think is gonna carry

2107
02:21:11.639 --> 02:21:15.719
that world television belt. I want
you to know that I'll be back to

2108
02:21:15.799 --> 02:21:20.040
beat their betass to take my whole
TV title pack, and I'm gonna do

2109
02:21:20.159 --> 02:21:26.760
it. I'm joined now. He
had he could save his television ship.

2110
02:21:28.440 --> 02:21:33.719
I want to suck a hitch I
being damn. Can you imagine how badly

2111
02:21:33.760 --> 02:21:37.000
he wanted to be a two year
champion. He was only run of money,

2112
02:21:37.079 --> 02:21:43.159
going to get out here, Foti
who shut the felt right now?

2113
02:21:45.319 --> 02:21:48.440
Look at this sham felt the way
here right now. So with they Ha

2114
02:21:50.319 --> 02:21:58.200
Cyrus and Fancy J. L.
Tay Oh, he doesn't people that it

2115
02:21:58.280 --> 02:22:05.680
even money. I never thought I'd
be rooting for Bill out park right out

2116
02:22:11.680 --> 02:22:15.600
Wow. And that was a Paul
special because when he does something that'd pissed

2117
02:22:15.639 --> 02:22:18.639
the fans off like that, he
would also he would package it. He

2118
02:22:18.680 --> 02:22:20.959
does it on the pay per view
too, package it together with like another

2119
02:22:22.000 --> 02:22:26.239
angle immediately following it that shifted the
focus to something else, which in this

2120
02:22:26.319 --> 02:22:31.520
case was Rhino stepping up and goring
Rob van Dam's manager Bill Olfonso to signal

2121
02:22:31.600 --> 02:22:33.680
that Rhino was now kind of like
the lead dog in the hunt for the

2122
02:22:33.760 --> 02:22:39.600
future of the Television Championship and thus
a future opponent for Rob van Dam against

2123
02:22:39.639 --> 02:22:43.520
whom he suffered the injury that forced
him to relinquish the belt in the first

2124
02:22:43.520 --> 02:22:45.079
place. So that's how that all
played out, and you can hear van

2125
02:22:45.159 --> 02:22:48.719
Dam kind of channeling the spirit of
an ECW that was kind of bruised by

2126
02:22:48.760 --> 02:22:50.760
some top star departures and trying to
which was a shoot, you know,

2127
02:22:52.159 --> 02:22:54.680
win the support of the fans because
he didn't leave even though he had ample

2128
02:22:54.719 --> 02:22:58.120
opportunity. So that's how that plays
out. And Scotty Riggs is involved because

2129
02:22:58.120 --> 02:23:01.639
Scotty Riggs is a long I'm friend
of Rob van Dam's, dating back to

2130
02:23:01.680 --> 02:23:05.079
it before they really broke in as
national stars. They worked similar indie circuits

2131
02:23:05.360 --> 02:23:13.120
very early on in their lives and
careers, and gross Rob asked if Rigs

2132
02:23:13.159 --> 02:23:16.200
could be featured on screen in some
role with Van Dam to associate him with

2133
02:23:16.280 --> 02:23:22.000
him, and I think that was
legal how so to be showing rigs on

2134
02:23:22.120 --> 02:23:24.840
screen. Well, they certainly do
it a lot here and I don't think

2135
02:23:24.840 --> 02:23:30.280
anybody went to jail, but you
know, I mean, you know,

2136
02:23:30.479 --> 02:23:33.079
for such a rigs and I mean, were they filled with juice? Were

2137
02:23:33.120 --> 02:23:35.639
they juiced up? Rigs? That
I can't speak to, But there were

2138
02:23:35.639 --> 02:23:39.399
certainly no shortage of those in the
ECW locker room at the time there,

2139
02:23:39.959 --> 02:23:43.399
so if you wanted to find one, you could, but it was always

2140
02:23:43.399 --> 02:23:46.079
looking, always looking for a cycle. Yeah, well the business is cyclical,

2141
02:23:46.200 --> 02:23:50.559
so that's a good point. But
it surprised me researching this that there's

2142
02:23:50.680 --> 02:23:54.920
kind of like a dearth of commentary
from Rob van Dam about what it meant

2143
02:23:54.559 --> 02:23:58.159
to lose the TV title that way. I mean, not to mark out

2144
02:23:58.239 --> 02:24:00.399
for it, but it really was
his calling card. It was something I'm

2145
02:24:00.399 --> 02:24:03.360
sure he would have liked to have
to hear him talk about it, you

2146
02:24:03.440 --> 02:24:07.360
know, become world champion while also
holding the TV championship and only lose it

2147
02:24:07.079 --> 02:24:09.239
or relinquish it after he won the
main belt. That was kind of how

2148
02:24:09.360 --> 02:24:13.559
he seemed to see. Sure,
but you know this not very unfortunately timed

2149
02:24:13.559 --> 02:24:16.280
injury forced this angle, and how
he felt about that and I couldn't find

2150
02:24:16.360 --> 02:24:20.360
much in the way of commentary about
it. But we didn't have a way

2151
02:24:20.399 --> 02:24:22.440
of reaching RVD. Did we not? Indeed, we've done it before.

2152
02:24:24.280 --> 02:24:26.959
We were able to put the question
to him via cameo. The question is

2153
02:24:26.360 --> 02:24:31.079
does he answer it? We asked, That's always the question. We asked

2154
02:24:31.079 --> 02:24:33.840
them some other things about what's going
on at ECW at this point in time

2155
02:24:33.920 --> 02:24:39.360
and presenting now made possible by your
generous support in the solar system some primary

2156
02:24:39.440 --> 02:24:46.559
research here RVD on this whole time
period, what a JP? This is

2157
02:24:46.799 --> 02:24:52.959
Hall of Famer and the whole damn
show. When he went he flashed the

2158
02:24:52.079 --> 02:24:56.200
ring? Oh he did he really? Okay, Yeah, there's another way

2159
02:24:56.200 --> 02:25:00.520
you can't dance? I saw him. I actually I just you know what,

2160
02:25:00.600 --> 02:25:01.360
I just haven't no time to do
what. I forgot about it after

2161
02:25:01.520 --> 02:25:05.840
I got it, after it came
in r v D. If I'm in

2162
02:25:05.959 --> 02:25:09.159
person and I was signing an autograph
to you, I'd say, how do

2163
02:25:09.200 --> 02:25:15.280
you spell JP? And I have
to catch you stonefaced, and you would

2164
02:25:15.360 --> 02:25:20.600
not know if I was joking or
not. You say j P, and

2165
02:25:20.680 --> 02:25:24.799
I'd say, I know, not
feel a little bit. So if I

2166
02:25:24.840 --> 02:25:30.760
would have a good, laugh together. Let me get through your questions here,

2167
02:25:30.920 --> 02:25:33.520
bro, I can help you out
because I already read them. I

2168
02:25:33.600 --> 02:25:37.280
got the answers. Okay, it
was the coolest Scottie Riggs carrying me to

2169
02:25:37.360 --> 02:25:41.000
the ring with a broken foot.
Uh. Yeah, I thought that was

2170
02:25:41.079 --> 02:25:46.799
a cool Uh, A cool little
thing. And one of the fans to

2171
02:25:48.239 --> 02:25:54.200
associate he and I together is being
bess. But which I need to call

2172
02:25:54.319 --> 02:26:01.360
him? Text him more likely?
Uh, because a couple of text him

2173
02:26:01.399 --> 02:26:05.879
more likely. We don't want to
be calling Scottie Riggs these days weeks.

2174
02:26:07.079 --> 02:26:11.280
He's still doing good. We're still
doing good, We're still framings. Of

2175
02:26:11.360 --> 02:26:16.000
course, I have fantastic thoughts on
the TANN angle where they stripped me of

2176
02:26:16.159 --> 02:26:20.559
my TV title. So there it
is. We ask him if he has

2177
02:26:20.639 --> 02:26:22.920
thoughts of the angle where TNN stripped
him of the TV title? Right?

2178
02:26:24.559 --> 02:26:31.920
Oh boy? Well, see,
I had a contract that said I get

2179
02:26:33.200 --> 02:26:37.479
X amount of money for seventy five
matches a year. That's interesting. It's

2180
02:26:37.479 --> 02:26:41.479
the first time I've ever heard of
a ECW contract of matches attached to it.

2181
02:26:43.159 --> 02:26:48.239
Yeah, and then every news and
what happened was they went over my

2182
02:26:48.440 --> 02:26:54.040
seventy five and I didn't bother tell
them because I was getting paid extra that

2183
02:26:54.799 --> 02:26:58.040
hear that, Yeah, what was
the deal? If I go over your

2184
02:26:58.120 --> 02:27:05.920
seventy five, then I get paid
per each match and at the same rate.

2185
02:27:07.360 --> 02:27:11.440
So I was collecting money. And
but what does this have to do

2186
02:27:11.520 --> 02:27:16.239
with the injury? No, I
didn't tell them. They were so unorganized

2187
02:27:16.280 --> 02:27:18.520
they had no idea. And then
when they found out that, I was

2188
02:27:18.799 --> 02:27:24.239
like, I don't know, eighty
matches, eighty one matches or whatever.

2189
02:27:24.120 --> 02:27:33.920
Boom, wait a minute, they
left me for dead, filade open like

2190
02:27:33.040 --> 02:27:41.319
a dissected frog. Rob. I
didn't ask you what happened when TNA took

2191
02:27:41.360 --> 02:27:46.840
the title off you? Oh my
god, Oh my god. You remember

2192
02:27:46.879 --> 02:27:52.280
on TNH where he was attacked by
a business metal spikes. Yes, he

2193
02:27:52.399 --> 02:27:58.000
thinks the clues, Oh my god, he thinks. Not not what he

2194
02:27:58.079 --> 02:28:01.040
thought about when they took the TV
title off of him on TNN, but

2195
02:28:01.200 --> 02:28:07.920
rather when TNA took the title off
of him on TV on TV. And

2196
02:28:07.000 --> 02:28:09.120
it's the damnedest thing, because I
can't be mad about it. You know

2197
02:28:09.200 --> 02:28:13.760
why, because when we were doing
TNH, I had a hell of a

2198
02:28:13.879 --> 02:28:20.559
time finding corroboration for the reports in
the newsletters that the reason that's funny RVD

2199
02:28:20.719 --> 02:28:24.959
was suddenly written out as world champion
after so much hooplah putting the belt on

2200
02:28:24.079 --> 02:28:28.840
him on the first Live Monday Night
show was that they fucking realized his contract

2201
02:28:30.079 --> 02:28:33.719
was such that they put the belt
on somebody that they couldn't agree to pay

2202
02:28:33.760 --> 02:28:39.040
as much as they had to.
And it was classic TNA. It's fucking

2203
02:28:39.120 --> 02:28:43.079
classic, you know, finger pointing
from there on the top. God starts

2204
02:28:43.159 --> 02:28:46.600
the top, bishoff and Dixie should
have known about this for putting the belt

2205
02:28:46.639 --> 02:28:50.239
on him, but they they you
know, they whistle past graveyards, that's

2206
02:28:50.280 --> 02:28:56.000
what they do. So unbelievable.
So at least we've got that confirmation a

2207
02:28:56.079 --> 02:29:00.840
couple of years later. Goddamn no, it was a two years yeah,

2208
02:29:01.040 --> 02:29:03.000
year ago, two years well,
a year ago, year and a half

2209
02:29:03.040 --> 02:29:07.920
ago. We're suffering through that.
So there's your confirmation seventy five days that

2210
02:29:07.079 --> 02:29:13.120
that's that is. That's crazy.
I'm like, at first he's talking,

2211
02:29:13.159 --> 02:29:16.079
I'm like, wow, this is
I've never heard this about ECW contracts.

2212
02:29:16.120 --> 02:29:18.959
And I'm listening right, I'm like, no, he's not, he's not.

2213
02:29:20.159 --> 02:29:24.120
He just thought it was DNA.
So that's how much it meant to

2214
02:29:24.200 --> 02:29:30.440
him to have that long standing man. He confuses it for his TNA world

2215
02:29:30.440 --> 02:29:33.440
title run. I mean, hey, you know what though it I mean,

2216
02:29:35.399 --> 02:29:41.000
I mean I can understand him looking
at TNN and thinking tnayah, same

2217
02:29:41.040 --> 02:29:45.760
network. Oh my god. But
we asked him a lot more about this

2218
02:29:45.799 --> 02:29:50.399
time period, so more to come
here from mister for all of my fans

2219
02:29:50.520 --> 02:29:54.120
to see. And I brought my
back with a band aid and they started

2220
02:29:54.200 --> 02:29:58.360
my next seventy five. So you
know, what do I think about it?

2221
02:30:00.520 --> 02:30:07.280
Not the best business from any perspective? Really, Okay, the heat

2222
02:30:07.360 --> 02:30:11.680
between Polly and TNN, what was
it about? Uh well, dude,

2223
02:30:11.760 --> 02:30:20.239
so here we are e c W
pause pause, I can belief you didn't

2224
02:30:20.239 --> 02:30:22.159
make the connection there. I know
we're gonna ask you about TNN in the

2225
02:30:22.200 --> 02:30:26.040
middle of two ECW questions, and
Mike also, we've talked. I literally

2226
02:30:26.799 --> 02:30:33.159
you know that you literally put down
TNN the angle, like talking about TNN

2227
02:30:33.239 --> 02:30:35.159
and the angle, and he doesn't
pick up on the fact that, oh

2228
02:30:35.680 --> 02:30:39.000
shit, yeah, I she said, Cyrus took the belt off you.

2229
02:30:39.959 --> 02:30:45.840
But you know you don't think about
that potential for misination, right exactly.

2230
02:30:46.280 --> 02:30:50.280
We're awesome. Also, knowing the
world can't see us because we have a

2231
02:30:50.399 --> 02:30:56.040
sty time slot. Uh, and
some areas don't get us at all.

2232
02:30:56.360 --> 02:30:58.559
The ones that do watch us at
three in the morning. But if we

2233
02:30:58.639 --> 02:31:03.280
had an national channel, holy crap. If everyone got a chance to see

2234
02:31:03.399 --> 02:31:07.680
us, a lot of them.
I just knew a lot of them would

2235
02:31:07.719 --> 02:31:13.920
be like minded like me, and
they would prefer the cool, extreme factors

2236
02:31:13.000 --> 02:31:22.040
of ECW over the mainstream product that
they were being subjected to. There was

2237
02:31:22.079 --> 02:31:26.600
getting pushed down their throat and we
all believed that. And we're looking at

2238
02:31:26.680 --> 02:31:30.399
channels. When I shopping for channels, and man, for a while,

2239
02:31:30.520 --> 02:31:33.040
Paul at us, going, you
know, it's either going to be USA

2240
02:31:33.239 --> 02:31:39.399
or if not, then it might
be I don't know who else. Did

2241
02:31:39.479 --> 02:31:43.280
he say Fox was on the list
the one time, but anyway, it

2242
02:31:43.440 --> 02:31:50.399
ended up being TNN. All right, Well, at least they're available everywhere.

2243
02:31:50.799 --> 02:31:56.600
Everyone gets TNN. At the time
TNN was I think it's called the

2244
02:31:56.719 --> 02:32:03.360
Nashville Network or was it before the
Nashville Network. He remembers they were national

2245
02:32:03.440 --> 02:32:07.280
network. But he has trouble connecting
that despite Fox is interesting right now,

2246
02:32:07.360 --> 02:32:11.760
I think he has I think he's
got a lot of trouble connecting a lot

2247
02:32:11.799 --> 02:32:13.360
of stuff right now. You know, it's weird. He's all spacey and

2248
02:32:13.399 --> 02:32:18.079
he's got the voice in his face, but he actually has better recall than

2249
02:32:18.120 --> 02:32:20.879
most guys of his age. Oh, totally, totally. I'm just I'm

2250
02:32:20.920 --> 02:32:22.479
just giving him a hard time.
I don't I know what you mean that

2251
02:32:22.559 --> 02:32:26.680
sounds pulling it out of his Yeah, I mean also, I mean he's

2252
02:32:26.719 --> 02:32:31.280
shirtless in this one, right,
and I'm sure baked. Oh absolutely,

2253
02:32:31.520 --> 02:32:35.840
Yeah, dude, he's stoned off
the wazoo. So there's that too.

2254
02:32:35.959 --> 02:32:37.600
But uh, yeah, the Fox
one's interesting, becau. I'm pretty sure

2255
02:32:37.639 --> 02:32:41.959
that's the deal that ended up going
to TNA Fox Sports Net, So they're

2256
02:32:41.959 --> 02:32:46.200
shopping around in There was even a
brief period where George Greenberg, who was

2257
02:32:46.239 --> 02:32:50.840
running Fox Sports through Lenita Erickson,
who was an on screen television commentator for

2258
02:32:50.120 --> 02:32:54.200
w CW interviewer, I should say
for a very brief period of time,

2259
02:32:54.239 --> 02:32:56.120
and who actually got together with JJ
Dillon and Jerry Jarrett. He was trying

2260
02:32:56.159 --> 02:33:01.600
to facilitate an alternative offer to buy
w CW you from the Fusion offer that

2261
02:33:01.719 --> 02:33:05.000
Eric Bischoff was putting together. Really
yeah, the guy who ran Fox Sports,

2262
02:33:05.040 --> 02:33:11.040
George Greenberg, according to guy Evans
book, calls up Lenita and says,

2263
02:33:11.079 --> 02:33:13.040
hey, Lenita, I got this
guy Eric Bischoff coming in here.

2264
02:33:13.559 --> 02:33:16.559
Says he owns w CW and is
looking for television, and she tells him,

2265
02:33:16.719 --> 02:33:22.319
George, he does not owned ww
He just he can't make those representations.

2266
02:33:22.479 --> 02:33:24.840
He's don't do it. He's not
in a position to make a deal.

2267
02:33:28.200 --> 02:33:31.399
So sniffing around wrestling. For a
while, there was was Fox No

2268
02:33:31.559 --> 02:33:35.559
I think it was back then on
the National Network, and then it changed

2269
02:33:35.559 --> 02:33:43.799
to something else and then Spike TV. But at the time everyone got TONN

2270
02:33:45.040 --> 02:33:50.360
but there was shit for programming on
there. It was like the I think

2271
02:33:50.399 --> 02:33:56.600
the most popular show that they had
was Dukes of Hazard reruns from the eighties.

2272
02:33:56.799 --> 02:34:01.840
So I thought, for sure,
we're gonna be the number one watched

2273
02:34:03.479 --> 02:34:05.920
show on the channel easily. We'll
be able to be the big fish in

2274
02:34:05.920 --> 02:34:09.600
a little pond. Who's gonna be
good for us. It's gonna really get

2275
02:34:09.600 --> 02:34:13.040
our name out there and everyone to
be able to tune in and watch us.

2276
02:34:13.760 --> 02:34:20.040
And it didn't really go that way
for a lot of reasons. They

2277
02:34:20.120 --> 02:34:24.200
didn't get really good behind us,
and we were noticing that they put us

2278
02:34:24.280 --> 02:34:28.920
on Friday Night, which is really
like one of the worst time slots.

2279
02:34:31.040 --> 02:34:37.360
People weren't watching TV back then.
They were going out and they didn't advertise

2280
02:34:37.440 --> 02:34:41.920
the show at all. They didn't
get behind us at all. I was

2281
02:34:41.000 --> 02:34:46.440
thinking, Wow, when we get
on a nast shot network, you gotta

2282
02:34:46.440 --> 02:34:50.239
see v c W. Russell is
on the side of semi trucks on the

2283
02:34:50.360 --> 02:34:56.680
highway, big billboards telling everyone tune
in to TNN Friday night at eight o'clock.

2284
02:34:58.680 --> 02:35:03.639
None of that happened. Commercial that
I ever saw was one that we

2285
02:35:03.799 --> 02:35:09.319
made and we aired it during our
show, so the rest of the time

2286
02:35:11.239 --> 02:35:18.079
there wasn't any pushing a VCW.
We saw that happening, and then according

2287
02:35:18.120 --> 02:35:26.600
to Paul, it was because they
were using us as a testing pattern because

2288
02:35:26.760 --> 02:35:33.319
they were already planning on getting WWE
and moving WWE to their channel, and

2289
02:35:33.559 --> 02:35:37.280
we went it out of there and
we couldn't get out, and so we

2290
02:35:37.399 --> 02:35:41.200
felt trapped, and so that's what
they heat was. That's why Paul did

2291
02:35:41.239 --> 02:35:48.520
the promo that they aired without the
audio. We says, you know what,

2292
02:35:48.959 --> 02:35:52.799
dnn Ie Darian to kick me off
the air. If you had the

2293
02:35:52.879 --> 02:35:56.000
balls, you'd kick me off the
fucking air. Because we wanted to get

2294
02:35:56.079 --> 02:35:58.680
kicked off. We knew that they
were using us, and we were actually

2295
02:36:00.479 --> 02:36:03.639
losing money from the way I understood
it. When we got hooked up to

2296
02:36:03.840 --> 02:36:09.719
the TV networks and stuff. You
know, Paul signed some contracts for some

2297
02:36:09.920 --> 02:36:15.959
of us for some money, so
we wouldn't leave, couldn't. You know,

2298
02:36:16.239 --> 02:36:18.479
you can't invest in ourselves if they
might leave and go somewhere else.

2299
02:36:18.600 --> 02:36:22.319
And he had the long term plans
in mind. He wanted to see this

2300
02:36:22.479 --> 02:36:26.440
work. So for all of those
reasons, we got fucked over by TNN

2301
02:36:26.959 --> 02:36:33.000
mister King Spike and then just aired
WWE and a little did I know that

2302
02:36:33.079 --> 02:36:39.520
Paul was working with WWE anyway,
So maybe maybe at this time he might

2303
02:36:39.639 --> 02:36:46.680
even had something to do with that. I only know when it comes to

2304
02:36:46.760 --> 02:36:56.280
Paul Hayman. That would he tells
me is one thing to go by,

2305
02:36:58.040 --> 02:37:01.879
but there's probably more. M all
right, JP, this is the whole

2306
02:37:01.959 --> 02:37:09.159
affing show. R v D enjoyed
it. Bam, good talk. I

2307
02:37:09.239 --> 02:37:15.399
gotta jump in the pool. Good
talk, pal amazing talk. Soon he'd

2308
02:37:15.440 --> 02:37:20.079
say he is one of a kind. Well, I'll tell you what I

2309
02:37:20.200 --> 02:37:24.959
do. Believe that his feet are
more educated than himself. But that's just

2310
02:37:24.040 --> 02:37:28.520
what I've heard, so a lot
there, but a lot of confirmation around,

2311
02:37:28.559 --> 02:37:31.239
you know, the nature of how
the talent was feeling about TNN and

2312
02:37:31.000 --> 02:37:35.040
and how Paul was feeling about TNN, but not necessarily answers as to the

2313
02:37:35.079 --> 02:37:39.639
emotion of having to vacate the television
title. That will have to be resolved

2314
02:37:39.680 --> 02:37:43.479
at a future date. Maybe maybe
maybe we should ask him about the TNA

2315
02:37:43.559 --> 02:37:48.959
title sometime and maybe he'll talk about
the TNN. Well, I'll tell you.

2316
02:37:48.040 --> 02:37:50.079
You know, we've ever seen Rob
at a convention, that's the one

2317
02:37:50.120 --> 02:37:52.479
to ask him, But now we
got it answered inadvertently, so now we

2318
02:37:52.559 --> 02:38:00.280
have to ask him instead exactly.
But at the time, who was Rob

2319
02:38:00.319 --> 02:38:05.760
Mandam on an Ultimate Collision course with
equal parts Rhino but also ECW Heavyweight champion

2320
02:38:05.840 --> 02:38:07.959
Mike Awesome? That was the big
Oh, there we go. That would

2321
02:38:09.000 --> 02:38:11.440
have been a great program. Yeah, I'm sure I could have gotten behind

2322
02:38:11.520 --> 02:38:13.040
that one. And they were sort
of associating the two in some of the

2323
02:38:13.120 --> 02:38:16.040
angle I think Mike Astlin's pretty good. Yeah, I can't wait to talk

2324
02:38:16.040 --> 02:38:20.159
about it. They were associated the
to a bit and in angles before that

2325
02:38:20.600 --> 02:38:22.959
sort of dropped dead forfeit the championship, they shared the ring together. They

2326
02:38:24.040 --> 02:38:26.520
got a couple of episodes of tn
N where they kind of barbed back and

2327
02:38:26.600 --> 02:38:28.319
forth but who had the better belt. You could tell that they were on

2328
02:38:28.479 --> 02:38:33.639
track to have Van Dem versus Awesome
as the big program, with Van Dam

2329
02:38:33.719 --> 02:38:37.040
finally winning the world Championship at some
point in two thousand and of course,

2330
02:38:37.319 --> 02:38:39.319
that doesn't quite come to fruition,
not because of Vandam's injury, but because

2331
02:38:39.399 --> 02:38:43.159
Mike Ausam leaves with the championships.
So what we see here on a show

2332
02:38:43.200 --> 02:38:46.079
where he makes a sudden run in
and power Bomb's kid Cash of all people

2333
02:38:46.159 --> 02:38:52.600
to death and then leaves is a
Mike Awesome as ECW champion for the final

2334
02:38:52.680 --> 02:38:56.920
time on ECW pay per view.
It's crazy because he's getting ready to jump

2335
02:38:56.920 --> 02:39:00.840
ship to a WCW that's reconstituting under
Eric Bischoff and Vince rue So, and

2336
02:39:01.000 --> 02:39:03.879
we know that Awesome comes in quite
soon after that begins and eventually becomes the

2337
02:39:03.879 --> 02:39:09.840
fat Chick thriller. This very well, Oh god, I remember, and

2338
02:39:09.959 --> 02:39:15.120
that's where he's wearing the Hawaiian shirt, right, it's right, Yeah,

2339
02:39:15.120 --> 02:39:20.799
he's that seventies guy, so stupid. So you saw awesome here and kind

2340
02:39:20.840 --> 02:39:24.559
of like the strongest presentation that was
the idea. Mike Austum comes out and

2341
02:39:24.680 --> 02:39:26.920
fucking obliterates smaller guys with power,
bombs off the top rope, through tables,

2342
02:39:28.360 --> 02:39:30.639
and just destroys people and gets,
you know, display some of his

2343
02:39:31.040 --> 02:39:33.079
one of a kind areal ability for
a guy of his speaking of Rob van

2344
02:39:33.120 --> 02:39:37.280
Dam, one of a kind are
for a guy of his size. And

2345
02:39:37.639 --> 02:39:39.200
what did you think? What do
you think what you saw? I like,

2346
02:39:39.319 --> 02:39:43.639
I mean, I I've seen Mike
Austin before. I like Mike Austum.

2347
02:39:43.680 --> 02:39:48.559
I think he's I think he was
great. I think I I I

2348
02:39:48.719 --> 02:39:52.360
wish uh you know, I wish
he'd lasted in uh in ww after.

2349
02:39:52.680 --> 02:39:56.360
You know, I think it's funny
they didn't really see much in him,

2350
02:39:56.399 --> 02:40:01.959
but he's got all those all this
all the characteristics of they what they usually

2351
02:40:01.399 --> 02:40:05.680
like, especially at that time.
You know, he's big, he's quick,

2352
02:40:05.879 --> 02:40:09.639
and you know he's he's you know, he's got he's got the look

2353
02:40:09.719 --> 02:40:13.600
and everything. I don't know,
it was always kind of bummed that it

2354
02:40:13.639 --> 02:40:15.959
didn't work out with him. Yeah, one thing he thought I didn't have

2355
02:40:16.120 --> 02:40:18.200
was he didn't have the voice to
match the presence. He had kind of

2356
02:40:18.200 --> 02:40:22.319
squeaky, goofy voice, but you
know, that's nothing that can't be overcome.

2357
02:40:22.000 --> 02:40:26.920
His thing was he was huge in
Japan as gladiator, huge in FMW,

2358
02:40:26.159 --> 02:40:30.239
not huge in the big Japanese leagues, but a FMW with GCW had

2359
02:40:30.239 --> 02:40:33.520
a promotional alliance with dating back to
the you know the Italian with that Shushio

2360
02:40:33.600 --> 02:40:35.600
Nita and Terry Funk that we talked
about on the Lapsed Funk. Yeah,

2361
02:40:35.760 --> 02:40:39.600
there was a lot of talent training
going on. I think Ken of Muras

2362
02:40:39.639 --> 02:40:41.799
on the show, we'll talk about
him, he's part of that. I

2363
02:40:41.840 --> 02:40:45.840
getto and Jado as well come in
before they were in New Japan and they're

2364
02:40:45.879 --> 02:40:50.520
on this pay per view as well. There was a pretty strong relationship there

2365
02:40:50.639 --> 02:40:54.000
and as gladiator with a painted face, he was standing out a lot.

2366
02:40:54.040 --> 02:40:56.920
Mike Assam had been in the sort
of proto ECW in ninety three and ninety

2367
02:40:56.959 --> 02:41:00.680
four a couple of times. It
was able to show some of his wares

2368
02:41:00.719 --> 02:41:03.520
then, but he really broke through
and got a healthy gig in Japan as

2369
02:41:03.520 --> 02:41:09.920
a world champion, where he feuded
with Massato Tanaka quite expansively, and when

2370
02:41:09.920 --> 02:41:11.760
they brought that feud into the United
States. Starting in the summer of nineteen

2371
02:41:11.879 --> 02:41:16.520
ninety eight, became very clear that
Mike Austin versus Massado Tanaka was one of

2372
02:41:16.559 --> 02:41:18.280
the best things going in ECW.
They were having the best matches on most

2373
02:41:18.280 --> 02:41:22.319
shows later on, and they were
just elevating things. They were not just

2374
02:41:22.440 --> 02:41:26.360
doing chair shots, they were doing
incredible, high risk spots for guys of

2375
02:41:26.399 --> 02:41:30.239
their size, just in a really
state of the art matches for American wrestling

2376
02:41:30.319 --> 02:41:33.040
rings at that point in time.
And so eventually the thought came to be,

2377
02:41:33.120 --> 02:41:35.959
this guy's got the size, he's
got this incredible agility and athleticism,

2378
02:41:37.120 --> 02:41:41.559
Maybe we can build around the guy. And so as it begins playing out,

2379
02:41:41.040 --> 02:41:43.920
and after their series of great matches, at the August nineteen ninety eight

2380
02:41:43.920 --> 02:41:48.559
heat Wave event, Awesome loses to
Tanaka and then September nineteen ninety eight,

2381
02:41:48.639 --> 02:41:52.319
Awesome gets an injury, so it
takes him until September of ninety nine to

2382
02:41:52.399 --> 02:41:54.600
come back. But when he does
come back, it's in the vacuum of

2383
02:41:54.680 --> 02:42:00.520
Taz leaving as champion at the time. So what a perfect setup to set

2384
02:42:00.600 --> 02:42:03.159
up Mike Awesome to be the guy
to pick up the torch, so they

2385
02:42:03.200 --> 02:42:05.159
do do that at Interview rules.
As we've covered in the archives, there's

2386
02:42:05.159 --> 02:42:11.479
a three way tas Masado, Tanaka
and Mike Awesome, and Awesome uh leaves

2387
02:42:11.520 --> 02:42:15.959
as champion in that matchup as tasks
the first to be eliminated from the three

2388
02:42:16.000 --> 02:42:18.239
way dance, and then they turned
the stage over to Awesome and to not

2389
02:42:18.319 --> 02:42:22.719
going to do their thing, finally
culminating in Mike Austain becoming the flag bearer,

2390
02:42:22.760 --> 02:42:26.399
if you will, of Extreme Championship
Wrestling in a post TAZ era.

2391
02:42:26.680 --> 02:42:30.000
He then also goes on prior to
this show to win the ECW World Tag

2392
02:42:30.040 --> 02:42:33.440
Team titles and a strange pairing with
Raven. Yeah, what was that?

2393
02:42:33.680 --> 02:42:37.600
We see them defend the titles and
lose them on this show and he gets

2394
02:42:37.639 --> 02:42:41.520
a manager and judge Jeff Jones and
it's Mike Austome's company, and uh,

2395
02:42:43.159 --> 02:42:48.479
he defends here. And you'll never
guess who played a role in tilting the

2396
02:42:48.559 --> 02:42:56.319
scales to one, Mike Awesome choosing
w CW over ECW when it starts to

2397
02:42:56.360 --> 02:43:03.920
get tough, You'll never guess.
I'm gonna guess it was Henry Godwin.

2398
02:43:03.239 --> 02:43:07.479
There's a high spots shooting interview that
Mike Ausain once conducted about the whole situation,

2399
02:43:07.559 --> 02:43:13.239
where he explains the mentality and the
influences and him leaving ECW. Right

2400
02:43:13.319 --> 02:43:16.479
around this point in time for WCW
particularly, I was driving to the show

2401
02:43:18.200 --> 02:43:20.399
and I was thinking to myself,
you know what, we did not get

2402
02:43:20.440 --> 02:43:24.079
paid last week. We're not getting
paid this week. What's going on?

2403
02:43:24.319 --> 02:43:26.600
Why do they keep missing our pay
days? They just kept, you know,

2404
02:43:26.680 --> 02:43:31.920
we get paid sporadically, and just
kept missing pay days and missing pay

2405
02:43:31.000 --> 02:43:35.239
days. And I was like thinking, what did I do? I left

2406
02:43:35.280 --> 02:43:39.120
my job in Japan for this.
I just bought the house that I'm doing

2407
02:43:39.159 --> 02:43:41.000
this interview in right now. I
started thinking, oh my gosh, I'm

2408
02:43:41.079 --> 02:43:48.159
letting go and make my mortgage payments. So I was talking to Horace actually

2409
02:43:48.200 --> 02:43:52.360
on the telephone, and he said, Mike, He goes, what are

2410
02:43:52.440 --> 02:43:54.200
you doing? He goes, I
can't believe you're doing that. He goes,

2411
02:43:54.239 --> 02:43:56.079
I got a Hongkog and right next
to me, boom, He hands

2412
02:43:56.120 --> 02:43:58.879
the phone. Hogan. Hogan gets
on the phone. My brother, what

2413
02:43:58.959 --> 02:44:01.559
are you doing. You can't be
working for free? He goes. Just

2414
02:44:01.600 --> 02:44:05.120
turn around and I follows you.
I'd dig my ass home. I basically

2415
02:44:05.239 --> 02:44:09.799
that's what I did. I turned
around and went home and from there started

2416
02:44:09.840 --> 02:44:16.159
talking with Bishop from Russolf and Bishop
and Russo, and you know what happened.

2417
02:44:16.200 --> 02:44:18.760
Then got a job, Then Paul
and all the legal wranglings came down

2418
02:44:18.799 --> 02:44:22.399
on me. And if I had
a contract with Paul, I would not

2419
02:44:22.479 --> 02:44:28.879
have been able to go to WCW. So what what was your solution?

2420
02:44:28.200 --> 02:44:31.399
You did you just want to get
the belt back because you didn't have a

2421
02:44:31.440 --> 02:44:33.280
contract, or yeah, I could
care less about the belt. I mean

2422
02:44:33.319 --> 02:44:35.959
the belt. So really, while
I was there, and I was even

2423
02:44:37.000 --> 02:44:39.600
though I was the champion, it's
cool to be the champion, you know,

2424
02:44:39.719 --> 02:44:43.479
that's not everything. You know,
being able to provide for your family

2425
02:44:43.600 --> 02:44:46.479
is number one. Actually, so
the belt meant absolutely nothing at that point

2426
02:44:46.559 --> 02:44:52.000
because I wasn't providing properly for my
family and I felt like it made a

2427
02:44:52.040 --> 02:44:58.079
bad career move by leaving Japan.
San And I'm sure you've heard the criticism

2428
02:44:58.159 --> 02:45:00.680
and everybody talking about yeah I hold
out. I want I want you to

2429
02:45:00.760 --> 02:45:03.200
tell me your signing story. My
signed the story basically, like I told

2430
02:45:03.239 --> 02:45:07.159
you, I could not provide for
my family or well, I wasn't getting

2431
02:45:07.159 --> 02:45:11.200
paid. Basically, the text just
weren't coming in the way they were supposed

2432
02:45:11.239 --> 02:45:16.680
to. All the promises that were
brother were made were not coming to It

2433
02:45:16.760 --> 02:45:20.360
was Hulk Hogan. Wow, brother, do you know why? Why?

2434
02:45:20.719 --> 02:45:31.079
Because Mike Awesome is Horace Hogan's cousin. He's related to whole fuck out of

2435
02:45:31.200 --> 02:45:35.360
here? Absolutely do all. I'll
thinking, Brother, why don't you come

2436
02:45:35.399 --> 02:45:39.600
over? Dosey w Do you know
we can kind of hang and bang brother?

2437
02:45:39.799 --> 02:45:43.639
A family reunion going, Brother,
You're gonna have the Hogan's Dude,

2438
02:45:43.200 --> 02:45:46.799
Yo, we could have brother yo. Hulk Hogan. Dude, Yo,

2439
02:45:48.079 --> 02:45:50.040
dude, you get Hulk Hogan brother
working for free. Dude, you got

2440
02:45:50.159 --> 02:45:58.159
Horace Hogan. Dude, got Mike
Hogan brother. Awesome Mike Hogan. That's

2441
02:45:58.200 --> 02:46:05.920
a much better name. Honestly,
I repeat, Awesome Mike Hogan. Hm

2442
02:46:07.600 --> 02:46:11.639
hm oh we can all do we
get down there, brother, We'll get

2443
02:46:11.639 --> 02:46:15.440
down the ring all three of us
shirts at the same time. Dude,

2444
02:46:15.479 --> 02:46:20.239
Hollywood hul Cogan, Horace Hogan and
Horrible Horace Hogan. Dude, you got

2445
02:46:20.319 --> 02:46:24.159
Hollywood hult Cogan. You got a
Horrible Horace Hogan brother, and you got

2446
02:46:24.200 --> 02:46:31.200
Awesome Mike Hogan, Dude, I
can I'm seeing the dollars getting printed.

2447
02:46:31.280 --> 02:46:39.000
Brother, Are there, Mike,
dude? Wait a minute, Mike,

2448
02:46:39.360 --> 02:46:43.879
Ma, Horace, are you there? Are you sure sure? This is

2449
02:46:43.959 --> 02:46:48.159
Mike on the phone, triple h
Brother? Come on over here, dude,

2450
02:46:48.200 --> 02:46:52.680
horrible Horace Hogan, dude, get
over here? Are you shurees?

2451
02:46:52.840 --> 02:46:56.559
Mike? Dude? Hold on?
Did you call Mike? Awesome? Dude?

2452
02:46:58.239 --> 02:47:01.680
You know you called me Terry?
I was what who called you?

2453
02:47:01.799 --> 02:47:03.760
Dude? What Mike called me?
I was? I picked it up.

2454
02:47:03.799 --> 02:47:05.559
I mean, he had a lot
on his mind, and you took the

2455
02:47:05.600 --> 02:47:09.760
phone from me, and I don't
know what's happening. Then this is my

2456
02:47:09.840 --> 02:47:13.239
Horace Hogan. By the way,
Hi, holl cry something like that,

2457
02:47:13.879 --> 02:47:18.879
Uncle Holk. But then whom I
on the phone with right now? Dude?

2458
02:47:22.120 --> 02:47:28.239
Hello? Oho? Brother? Who
am I on the phone with?

2459
02:47:28.399 --> 02:47:33.200
Right now? Dude? Hello?
He decides to check the phone line again.

2460
02:47:35.840 --> 02:47:37.520
Who phone line just goes dead.
Meanwhile, on the other side,

2461
02:47:37.559 --> 02:47:41.159
somewhere, Mike Austoin is on his
cell going through like a dead zone,

2462
02:47:41.200 --> 02:47:43.879
like hello, Terry, you there? Hello, But he can't hear it.

2463
02:47:43.959 --> 02:47:48.840
He just hears silence. Awesome,
Mike, sounds good. I'll take

2464
02:47:48.879 --> 02:47:50.879
it as long as I get paid, Horace. Brother. As soon as

2465
02:47:50.920 --> 02:47:54.600
I said horrible horrors, dude,
as soon as I said he should be

2466
02:47:54.840 --> 02:47:58.920
Mike Hogan, he went dead silent
on me radio. How am supposed to

2467
02:47:58.920 --> 02:48:01.680
be into that? How do I
even know that? I don't even think

2468
02:48:01.719 --> 02:48:03.360
this is Mike? Dude, Dude, I think who's on the phone,

2469
02:48:03.440 --> 02:48:07.479
Dude, I think you've got a
copycat brother ending me phone calls. Brother,

2470
02:48:07.520 --> 02:48:09.520
You don't even know who's on the
phone. Are you sure that could

2471
02:48:09.559 --> 02:48:13.239
be? You think of who that
could be? Who's dude you're talking about?

2472
02:48:13.440 --> 02:48:16.840
You said hold on, brother,
You said it was Mike Awesome.

2473
02:48:16.920 --> 02:48:20.799
Dude? Are you sure they said
Mike Awesome and it Mike comes through just

2474
02:48:20.840 --> 02:48:33.000
a little signal or it goes silent
again? Hello? Of course? Are

2475
02:48:33.040 --> 02:48:41.280
you sure they didn't say Steve Austin? Dude? Right exactly? I mean,

2476
02:48:41.520 --> 02:48:43.000
you can make that common mistake,
brother, Mike Awsome does sound like

2477
02:48:43.040 --> 02:48:50.600
Steve Austin. I can understand,
brot, I can tell you that.

2478
02:48:50.520 --> 02:48:52.959
What how do you know, dude, how do you know he wasn't put

2479
02:48:54.040 --> 02:48:56.319
on a Mike Awsome voice? Brother? Hold on, dude, when did

2480
02:48:56.360 --> 02:49:00.600
you shave your head anyway? Do
you trying to look like brother? That

2481
02:49:00.719 --> 02:49:03.200
go to you? Gut? I'm
putting two to two together. I'm sitting

2482
02:49:03.239 --> 02:49:05.360
here at the house. Why are
you, brother? Why are you wearing

2483
02:49:05.399 --> 02:49:11.159
black? Dude? Wait, uncle
Hawk, I'm wearing nWo callers? Brother,

2484
02:49:11.239 --> 02:49:15.959
don't even start. Are you saying? Are you saying Steve? Wait?

2485
02:49:16.040 --> 02:49:18.239
Are you seeing Steve Austin rolling off
the nWo? Dude? Whoa?

2486
02:49:20.000 --> 02:49:22.280
And have you're going down? I
need a minute, dude, don't leave.

2487
02:49:22.760 --> 02:49:24.799
You cannot leave my house, brother, but I need a minute.

2488
02:49:28.040 --> 02:49:28.879
Linda. Can you have all the
doors locked? Please? Thank you?

2489
02:49:31.440 --> 02:49:35.559
Okay, Linda, can you do
me? I think we have a situation,

2490
02:49:35.680 --> 02:49:37.559
Terry, Why are you still holding
phone? I just I have a

2491
02:49:37.600 --> 02:49:45.680
situation right, No, I don't
know who's on the phone. I gotta

2492
02:49:45.719 --> 02:49:52.239
keep this line open. Brother.
Why if he says something, dude,

2493
02:49:52.920 --> 02:49:58.760
it's getting a call from a hostage
taker. I need you to listen,

2494
02:49:58.920 --> 02:50:01.200
Linda. I need you to get
the kids. I need you to tie

2495
02:50:01.280 --> 02:50:05.000
up horse all right. Oh,
the kids are gonna help. I say,

2496
02:50:05.719 --> 02:50:09.159
get nasty, nick. I want
to get brook Tean. You brother,

2497
02:50:09.520 --> 02:50:11.920
get nasty, you get broteeny.
I need you to tie up,

2498
02:50:11.000 --> 02:50:15.000
Horse. I needed to gag him. I need you to keep him fucking

2499
02:50:15.360 --> 02:50:16.719
shut off. And it just comes
in the room like Horace, I'm sorry

2500
02:50:16.760 --> 02:50:20.040
to do this. He wants us
to tie you up and gag you.

2501
02:50:20.479 --> 02:50:22.959
Can we just can you just cooperate
to be over quick. But it'd be

2502
02:50:22.959 --> 02:50:24.879
a lot better than if we have
to have a big fight about it.

2503
02:50:24.920 --> 02:50:28.639
Horse, like fine, all right, all right, yeah, alright,

2504
02:50:28.959 --> 02:50:31.280
alright. I don't want to cause
any trouble. All right, just sit

2505
02:50:31.360 --> 02:50:33.719
there, Nick, can you get
the left wrist? Brook, you get

2506
02:50:33.760 --> 02:50:37.040
the right? Thank you so much, Horse, I'm sorry about this.

2507
02:50:37.879 --> 02:50:41.520
And then for some reason, and
for some reason, Hogan opens the door

2508
02:50:41.559 --> 02:50:46.840
to his basement. He does.
It's like he's just staring down into the

2509
02:50:46.959 --> 02:50:56.200
darkness. I know you're down here, dude. Who did I just say

2510
02:50:56.280 --> 02:51:01.200
to come to w C W brother? I mean, who do what?

2511
02:51:01.879 --> 02:51:07.760
Brother? I don't want to hang
it. I can't hang up. I

2512
02:51:07.799 --> 02:51:15.479
a landline, dude, that line. We got a line, doctor line,

2513
02:51:15.559 --> 02:51:20.479
Dude, doctor don like you,
dude, Terry, you know we

2514
02:51:20.600 --> 02:51:26.799
have a landline. Why are you
asking that question? Why why do you

2515
02:51:26.120 --> 02:51:30.719
answered the question with the questions?
Horas tied up, Yes, Terry,

2516
02:51:31.559 --> 02:51:35.360
how could be sure? Well,
brother, if he's tied up, tell

2517
02:51:35.440 --> 02:51:37.239
him to tell him to tell me
he's tied up, Terry, he has

2518
02:51:37.280 --> 02:51:41.200
a brother. I don't give it. Then you're gonna take a picture of

2519
02:51:41.280 --> 02:51:45.760
him. Brother, have it developed. We'll do it our development. Can't

2520
02:51:45.760 --> 02:51:46.760
you gim here? Brother? Just
watch this basement. I'm gonna go talk

2521
02:51:46.760 --> 02:51:50.399
to Horace. He goes upstairs,
talks to him, and as he's walking

2522
02:51:50.479 --> 02:51:52.000
up, he said at the phone
next to his ear trembling, but but

2523
02:51:52.120 --> 02:51:56.120
but making his way to that part
of the house puts him back in signal

2524
02:51:56.239 --> 02:51:58.239
range, and all of a sudden
he hears like the sound of a car

2525
02:51:58.319 --> 02:52:03.799
on the highway. Sorry, are
you there, Terry? I'm sorry.

2526
02:52:03.959 --> 02:52:05.079
I think I keep losing you.
But I didn't want to hang up.

2527
02:52:05.079 --> 02:52:09.000
I don't want to lose the call. Who I'm driving? What didn't hang

2528
02:52:09.079 --> 02:52:11.559
up anyway? Or are you driving
to? Who are you? Brother?

2529
02:52:11.319 --> 02:52:16.399
I was just talking about Stone Colt, Steve Austin. I know who it

2530
02:52:16.479 --> 02:52:18.319
is. Brother. What you're trying
to come here? You're trying to kill

2531
02:52:18.319 --> 02:52:24.920
the NW dude, You're trying to
fuck me up, parlor? What highway?

2532
02:52:24.959 --> 02:52:28.840
Are you going to kill my family, Dude, hol Comnia is too

2533
02:52:28.879 --> 02:52:37.000
important. Brother. I've been trying
to keep this thing alive for twenty fucking

2534
02:52:37.079 --> 02:52:43.719
years. Dude, you will not
fuck this up. Proller. It's my

2535
02:52:43.959 --> 02:52:56.280
family, Dude, it's my house. Ah. Mike is just white knuckling

2536
02:52:56.360 --> 02:53:01.559
the steering wheel. No clue what
to say, no clue, and so,

2537
02:53:01.399 --> 02:53:05.399
in his moment of panic, thinking
well, maybe I shall have a

2538
02:53:05.479 --> 02:53:07.399
day a job at w CW.
I better not fuck this up, he

2539
02:53:07.559 --> 02:53:15.360
hangs up and suddenly hears the phone
dies. We'll call Dies. Without any

2540
02:53:15.440 --> 02:53:20.479
response to that whole big paranoid spiel
that he just let loose, no reassurance

2541
02:53:20.639 --> 02:53:24.959
that he's wrong, nothing like that. The call ends at that point.

2542
02:53:24.040 --> 02:53:31.559
At that moment, he turns to
Horace and says, what I think the

2543
02:53:31.600 --> 02:53:37.319
government's coming to my house? Dude, I think the government gonna kill you.

2544
02:53:37.399 --> 02:53:43.120
Brother. We're gonna dress you up
like Kulkogan, so they kill you

2545
02:53:43.239 --> 02:53:46.280
first. Yeah, all right,
we get the right and yellow brother.

2546
02:53:46.440 --> 02:53:58.600
We're gonna dress up Horace the end. Kids. So yeah, that's a

2547
02:53:58.639 --> 02:54:03.959
long way of saying Mike ass was
the cousin of Horace Hogan, Horrorce Hogan.

2548
02:54:05.639 --> 02:54:07.559
Well, yeah, he leaves,
but he mentioned the legal issues.

2549
02:54:07.719 --> 02:54:11.120
Paul Haveman goes into a court of
law with his ECW contract with Mike Austin,

2550
02:54:11.600 --> 02:54:16.680
says you cannot jump like that,
and he actually gets well. He

2551
02:54:16.799 --> 02:54:20.000
files for a restraining order preventing Mike
Austin from appearing on Nitro. According to

2552
02:54:20.079 --> 02:54:26.280
the Scott Williams book The scuttle but
what about Thunder, that's a workaround.

2553
02:54:28.399 --> 02:54:31.559
Going to Scott Williams book, the
scuttle butt was that Mike was going to

2554
02:54:31.600 --> 02:54:33.840
show up and do the Medusa.
He's gonna throw the ECW world title in

2555
02:54:33.879 --> 02:54:37.440
the trash. Oh my god,
back to the old playbook. That's that's

2556
02:54:37.479 --> 02:54:41.680
the style right there, and it
doesn't happen a judge, you know,

2557
02:54:41.760 --> 02:54:45.239
basically by filing it with the judge, WB s, sorry, we need

2558
02:54:45.280 --> 02:54:46.959
to settle this, like fine,
we won't fucking do this. We don't

2559
02:54:48.000 --> 02:54:50.840
want to deal with this. So
there's a settlement. I'm sure there's a

2560
02:54:50.879 --> 02:54:56.200
cash payment made to pay down the
mounting debts ECW, and eventually Mike Austin

2561
02:54:56.280 --> 02:55:03.040
is allowed to go after this,
living dangerously show over to WCW as as

2562
02:55:03.120 --> 02:55:07.120
we see here, Mike Austam,
well you heard him there, kind of

2563
02:55:07.120 --> 02:55:11.600
express the frustrations with the whole deal, but they set up a situation where

2564
02:55:11.000 --> 02:55:16.040
he can drop the championship to Taz, who's in WWF at this time.

2565
02:55:16.760 --> 02:55:20.280
But because obviously there's very close contact
if he's going to make a half million

2566
02:55:20.319 --> 02:55:24.520
dollar loan Vince in the summer of
two thousand tow that he's not more than

2567
02:55:24.520 --> 02:55:28.479
a phone call away. So they
negotiate Taz to come back to ECW for

2568
02:55:28.559 --> 02:55:33.559
one night to beat Mike Ausam in
an impromptu match to become champion. And

2569
02:55:33.639 --> 02:55:37.280
the thing is so negotiated because now
it's all legal, right, and this

2570
02:55:37.440 --> 02:55:39.879
is like the subject of a settlement
agreement between ww and ECW, that there's

2571
02:55:39.920 --> 02:55:43.360
all these fine points. You can
find Mike Austam talking about it, of

2572
02:55:43.479 --> 02:55:46.159
like he can't come into the building, he has to stay in the car

2573
02:55:46.399 --> 02:55:50.280
in the parking lot, he can't
be in the locker rooms, and he

2574
02:55:50.399 --> 02:55:52.799
is to enter this way and go. A lot of people put a heat

2575
02:55:52.840 --> 02:55:54.040
on Mike Ausam for not being in
a locker room and just showing up and

2576
02:55:54.159 --> 02:55:58.639
leaving, But according to him,
that was all sort of prescribed by Paul

2577
02:55:58.639 --> 02:56:01.879
Hayman's legal demands or ECW's legal team
to demands that he not be there because

2578
02:56:01.879 --> 02:56:05.840
they wanted to, you know,
minimize the chances that something could go wrong

2579
02:56:05.040 --> 02:56:09.879
or you know that that circumstances could
be manipulated in a certain way. So

2580
02:56:11.559 --> 02:56:13.840
he comes in, he walks in, I think, through the people with

2581
02:56:13.920 --> 02:56:16.159
his gear on. He gets in
the ring, Taz chokes him out.

2582
02:56:16.639 --> 02:56:18.879
He even says, Mike Austin does
that. He puts his hand up in

2583
02:56:18.879 --> 02:56:22.920
a certain way to block his carotid
artery so the TAZ couldn't choke him out

2584
02:56:22.920 --> 02:56:26.760
for real and double cross them and
leave him laying taps right away that I

2585
02:56:26.840 --> 02:56:30.200
thought that was a real possibility that
he don't fucking I guess he did.

2586
02:56:30.280 --> 02:56:33.479
Yeah, Jesus, Chris, what
a business, I know, I said.

2587
02:56:33.479 --> 02:56:35.440
And at this level too, there's
like, you know, six hundred

2588
02:56:35.479 --> 02:56:37.719
people in the maybe five hundred people
in the building. And so he jumps

2589
02:56:37.760 --> 02:56:41.559
the rail and takes off after losing
the championship in a flash, he barely

2590
02:56:41.600 --> 02:56:43.719
sells the TAS mission. He's gone
Taz and straight clothes basically is back in

2591
02:56:43.799 --> 02:56:48.040
ECW to win the championship and then
the next night at the arena, next

2592
02:56:48.040 --> 02:56:50.600
the next night, next show at
the arena. Shortly after this, Taz

2593
02:56:50.639 --> 02:56:54.959
returns in the full gear and wrestles
Tommy Dreamer, and Tommy Dreamer wins the

2594
02:56:54.000 --> 02:56:58.959
world championship from Taz. Tas does
a clean job for him will like a

2595
02:56:58.040 --> 02:57:01.799
roll up, and then exits the
stage and then just incredible again that Paul

2596
02:57:01.840 --> 02:57:05.799
Hyman playbook of when you kind of
you know you launch the next angle immediately

2597
02:57:05.879 --> 02:57:09.600
after the prior one ends just incredible, jumps in the ring, canes Tommy

2598
02:57:09.680 --> 02:57:13.079
Dreamer and convinces him to put the
championship on the line, and then beats

2599
02:57:13.120 --> 02:57:16.280
Tommy Dreamer. So Dreamer's reign is
ees W champion. Coming off all this

2600
02:57:16.399 --> 02:57:22.000
mess lasts about an hour and just
incredible leaves that night as the new ECW

2601
02:57:22.120 --> 02:57:26.479
World Heavyweight Champion. Jesus Christ so
confusing at the time, but we know

2602
02:57:26.559 --> 02:57:31.719
all the circumstances now afterwards. But
the Rock what show? What's that?

2603
02:57:31.840 --> 02:57:37.719
What a shit show? But the
court case, Now, when I was

2604
02:57:37.760 --> 02:57:43.840
fascinating things sitting in a courtroom about
the history of WCW and a ECW,

2605
02:57:45.319 --> 02:57:50.040
so so it was to be RVD
and Mike awesome. That was kind of

2606
02:57:50.079 --> 02:57:54.239
where the ECW that we observe here
at Living Dangerously two thousand was heading and

2607
02:57:56.280 --> 02:57:58.879
not only did we not get the
match in two thousand, we never would

2608
02:57:58.920 --> 02:58:03.200
get in the match because on February
seventeenth, two thousand and seven, Mike

2609
02:58:03.239 --> 02:58:07.120
Austom hung himself. Oh god,
I don't remember the man. He hung

2610
02:58:07.200 --> 02:58:11.120
himself ade his home in Tampa.
Holy shit. Here's RVD in a shoot

2611
02:58:11.159 --> 02:58:18.159
interview with James Romero the Resting Shoot
Interviews YouTube page, talking about what could

2612
02:58:18.200 --> 02:58:20.680
have been with him and Mike Austin. I know what would who would have

2613
02:58:20.719 --> 02:58:28.520
went over in your plan match with
Mike Awesome? No, I don't know.

2614
02:58:28.799 --> 02:58:33.040
I mean anything would be hypothetical.
If you're asking me to book it

2615
02:58:33.239 --> 02:58:41.399
right now, I think I would
have. I think I would have been

2616
02:58:41.799 --> 02:58:46.440
holding two belts after that match.
You know, that would have been awesome.

2617
02:58:46.799 --> 02:58:52.799
And literally there's a you know,
no pun intended. But also even

2618
02:58:52.959 --> 02:58:58.280
you know, having rematches, maybe
setting up three out of five or something,

2619
02:59:00.200 --> 02:59:01.920
we have to set the standards in
that first matchup. That never happened.

2620
02:59:03.360 --> 02:59:09.360
Him. He was great, But
I think, and this is in

2621
02:59:09.479 --> 02:59:16.440
my opinion being biased, him having
the heavyweight belt I think made him stronger.

2622
02:59:18.079 --> 02:59:24.120
And I think me having the TV
Championship Belt made the TV belt stronger,

2623
02:59:24.719 --> 02:59:28.040
so I think that would have been
the difference. I'm presuming this is

2624
02:59:28.120 --> 02:59:33.200
the time when Mike jumped ship to
WCW, so that's why the match never

2625
02:59:33.280 --> 02:59:37.719
happened. Because we don't really talk
about Michael some very much on the show,

2626
02:59:37.719 --> 02:59:39.520
and I really enjoyed him. He
was one of my sort of like

2627
02:59:41.120 --> 02:59:43.000
you know, like the undercover favorites, like everyone's got the phase, like

2628
02:59:43.000 --> 02:59:46.440
the Rocky whoever, but like Michaelson
was always one of my favorites. Did

2629
02:59:46.520 --> 02:59:52.959
you ever wrestle him ever? No? No, never, did you know?

2630
02:59:54.040 --> 02:59:56.600
We were I guess we were both
in the Alliance. So we've done

2631
02:59:56.639 --> 03:00:03.520
some segments together and he was my
road wife for a while. We in

2632
03:00:03.600 --> 03:00:05.719
two thousand and one, I guess
in maybe two thousand and two, I

2633
03:00:05.760 --> 03:00:09.719
don't know, but we we traveled
together, and he was, you know,

2634
03:00:09.840 --> 03:00:15.079
definitely one of my uh, one
of my better friends, and one

2635
03:00:15.159 --> 03:00:22.799
of my several friends who decided to
hang themselves, which I'm gonna have to

2636
03:00:22.879 --> 03:00:24.920
look at the lists of them and
see if there's a pattern, because I

2637
03:00:24.959 --> 03:00:30.440
grew up in a house where someone
hung themselves Jesus, so I have that

2638
03:00:30.840 --> 03:00:37.360
back in my mind, you know
how that foreshadowed Ashley my Sorrow, the

2639
03:00:37.840 --> 03:00:48.319
Lion, Lionheart in England. Well
obviously chrispin Law. But there's you know,

2640
03:00:48.799 --> 03:00:54.360
there's a huge list and it's it's
it's weird studying the patterns of life.

2641
03:00:54.680 --> 03:00:58.799
Never saw it coming. You know, it hurt a lot to know

2642
03:01:00.079 --> 03:01:03.920
that he would have opted to do
that to himself. Yeah, he loved

2643
03:01:03.959 --> 03:01:09.120
these kids so much. He loved
his kids, not his wife so much,

2644
03:01:09.479 --> 03:01:11.799
loved his kids. I could not
imagine that he would do that to

2645
03:01:11.959 --> 03:01:15.360
them. You know, he would
just tell me he can't wait to get

2646
03:01:15.360 --> 03:01:18.559
home and smell them. He was
like a dog in that way, which

2647
03:01:18.079 --> 03:01:24.399
I don't know anybody else that has
explained themselves I can, but he always

2648
03:01:24.680 --> 03:01:26.280
he uses nose a lot like a
dog. And he used to love just

2649
03:01:26.360 --> 03:01:31.959
smelling his kids and and he would
talk about that and uh and then you

2650
03:01:31.040 --> 03:01:35.680
know, like I said, I
get it where his wife and him probably

2651
03:01:35.760 --> 03:01:39.840
got in a really bad fight because
it didn't seem like they had the best

2652
03:01:41.520 --> 03:01:45.840
loving relationship anyway. And I would
imagine she probably threatened to take away his

2653
03:01:46.000 --> 03:01:50.719
kids. In my mind, that
had to been what happened. So another

2654
03:01:50.799 --> 03:01:58.639
ecw happy ending, Jesus Christ so
rest in peace, and I fucking Christ

2655
03:01:58.680 --> 03:02:03.360
all my Steve Karina. This is
kind of his show to shine besides the

2656
03:02:03.399 --> 03:02:05.760
one that he wins the world title
on. In the very dying days of

2657
03:02:05.799 --> 03:02:11.520
the company facing off against the American
Dream, Dusty Rose's funnyw runs, it's

2658
03:02:11.559 --> 03:02:16.520
so funny. There's like it's more
like the company is going to be dead

2659
03:02:16.559 --> 03:02:20.760
in less than a year and it's
still not even the darkest of the dying

2660
03:02:20.879 --> 03:02:22.760
days. Oh it doesn't. No, it still doesn't have the because you

2661
03:02:22.799 --> 03:02:26.040
got to think post T and N
dying. That's really like we've got nothing.

2662
03:02:26.399 --> 03:02:28.920
You know, we don't have a
national tea, we don't have a

2663
03:02:28.920 --> 03:02:33.280
TV anymore. We have syndicated shows. But we built all this time up

2664
03:02:33.280 --> 03:02:37.440
to get a national deal thinking that
that was the catalyst to make this a

2665
03:02:37.559 --> 03:02:43.520
really really serious enterprise here and it's
over. The thing you thought was the

2666
03:02:43.559 --> 03:02:48.239
springboard is now behind you. So
this is a chapter we've never foresaw being

2667
03:02:48.319 --> 03:02:52.159
on. Everything to this point has
been somewhat linear in progression, and it

2668
03:02:52.239 --> 03:02:54.159
feels like momentum. This is a
huge step back from where we thought we'd

2669
03:02:54.200 --> 03:03:00.520
be. So I don't know,
Steve Kreno thrives in this environment. They're

2670
03:03:00.520 --> 03:03:03.680
sort of hard up for people,
and he's ready to step up and cup

2671
03:03:03.719 --> 03:03:05.959
big promos and work, you know, kind of a style, some sort

2672
03:03:07.000 --> 03:03:09.920
of tentti amutter Shane Douglas. You
know, he's like the guy with that

2673
03:03:09.200 --> 03:03:13.799
traditional heel style amidst the land of
big time brawlers with great mike skills.

2674
03:03:13.840 --> 03:03:16.840
Yeah, right right. He told
U Scott Williams in the Hardcore History Book.

2675
03:03:16.840 --> 03:03:18.920
I used to see go see ECW
shows, and there would always be

2676
03:03:18.959 --> 03:03:22.040
guys who wanted to be hardcore.
I thought it would be cool if I

2677
03:03:22.079 --> 03:03:24.440
could be the opposite. I would
say wrestlers needed to go back to doing

2678
03:03:24.479 --> 03:03:26.159
the hip toss, not all these
chairs in the violence. It worked on

2679
03:03:26.200 --> 03:03:30.239
the indies, and that first night
I came in TCW, Paul Hayman asked

2680
03:03:30.559 --> 03:03:33.520
me where I envisioned my character.
I described my gimmick and he lit up.

2681
03:03:33.559 --> 03:03:35.520
He just said, Steve Corino,
that's what you're going to be.

2682
03:03:37.280 --> 03:03:41.159
So here, on a shoot interview
with our video, Corina talks about getting

2683
03:03:41.239 --> 03:03:43.719
hired. He tells the story a
little more colorful and less pithy way.

2684
03:03:45.440 --> 03:03:48.040
Nonetheless, the outcome is the same. So he calls me. He says,

2685
03:03:48.079 --> 03:03:50.879
look, he goes, Paul wants
a couple of indie guys to come

2686
03:03:50.920 --> 03:03:54.479
in that can make an impact.
Is Tommy Dram. He came to me.

2687
03:03:54.600 --> 03:03:56.879
He said he has reckless youth in
mind. He goes, I had

2688
03:03:56.920 --> 03:04:01.600
you in mind, and I'm like, all right, sorry, this is

2689
03:04:01.639 --> 03:04:05.200
actually Nova who's in the company and
calls him, Oh, to come in.

2690
03:04:05.239 --> 03:04:07.799
Nova was a was an associate of
his. So he calls me.

2691
03:04:07.840 --> 03:04:11.719
He says, look, he goes, Paul wants a couple of indie guys

2692
03:04:11.760 --> 03:04:13.559
to come in that can make an
impact. And he came to me.

2693
03:04:13.680 --> 03:04:16.920
He said, he has reckless youth
in mind. He goes, I had

2694
03:04:16.000 --> 03:04:20.959
you in mind, and I'm like, all right. He goes, you

2695
03:04:22.040 --> 03:04:22.559
know, do you want to do
it? I said. He goes,

2696
03:04:22.600 --> 03:04:26.360
it's try out. You know,
there's no promises. He goes, I

2697
03:04:26.360 --> 03:04:31.159
don't know how much you're gonna get
paid anything like that. So I was

2698
03:04:31.239 --> 03:04:33.879
like, oh, okay, you
know I'm thinking, but my shining thought

2699
03:04:35.040 --> 03:04:39.559
was, oh shit, what's gonna
happen? Because I was doing that anti

2700
03:04:39.600 --> 03:04:43.799
hardcore gammick where I wasn't mentioning ECW
but you need to know because everybody on

2701
03:04:43.879 --> 03:04:46.120
the Independence was trying to do that
hardcore stuff. So I figured if I

2702
03:04:46.159 --> 03:04:50.040
was the anti hardcore, I'm gonna
be different and I'll get booked more places.

2703
03:04:50.559 --> 03:04:54.200
So yeah, I'm thinking this is
it. They're gonna kill me thinking

2704
03:04:54.280 --> 03:04:56.600
that, you know, here I
am tried to make fun of them on

2705
03:04:56.639 --> 03:05:01.799
the indies and h So I'm thinking, yeah, I mean, I am

2706
03:05:01.000 --> 03:05:05.440
either gonna be in there two minutes
where I'm gonna hear Dan and that,

2707
03:05:05.799 --> 03:05:11.000
or I'm gonna hear the uh and
I'm just gonna see uh one insane black

2708
03:05:11.120 --> 03:05:16.200
man hitting the ring and I'm just
like, what's gonna happen. So I

2709
03:05:16.319 --> 03:05:20.120
get there and uh, you know, he tells me to come for the

2710
03:05:20.120 --> 03:05:22.760
workouts and everything. I do a
workout and uh Dreamer comes to me.

2711
03:05:22.879 --> 03:05:26.360
I meet I meet Paul real quick. After the workout. He said that

2712
03:05:26.440 --> 03:05:28.600
he goes, you're doing really good, looking forward to working with you.

2713
03:05:28.680 --> 03:05:31.120
I said, oh, okay,
cool. Dreamers Like, okay, you

2714
03:05:31.159 --> 03:05:33.719
guys are on first tonight. You
can have as much time as you want.

2715
03:05:33.559 --> 03:05:37.559
He's like, novas up. I'm
like wow, I'm thinking, you

2716
03:05:37.639 --> 03:05:39.079
know, I'm thinking, wow,
I'm really in trouble. Now. You

2717
03:05:39.159 --> 03:05:43.200
know they're giving me the open ended
you know, this is really gonna be

2718
03:05:43.200 --> 03:05:46.360
an ass kicking, so I said, I kept asking him, Sure,

2719
03:05:46.440 --> 03:05:48.200
they're not gonna you know, because
when I was meeting people like they were

2720
03:05:48.239 --> 03:05:52.000
giving me the eye, like Bubba
gave me that. You know, Bubba

2721
03:05:52.079 --> 03:05:56.479
and Taz were the enforcers in the
locker room. And I looked around like,

2722
03:05:56.680 --> 03:05:58.239
uh, you know, I had
no Impage and Tracy from doing jobs

2723
03:05:58.280 --> 03:06:01.399
in w w F, and you
know, I know no of I known

2724
03:06:01.479 --> 03:06:05.520
Axel from MWF, and Axel was
never a fan of mine, so you

2725
03:06:05.600 --> 03:06:07.559
know he was he was already throwing
the shots in and working against me.

2726
03:06:09.120 --> 03:06:11.200
So I'm like, oh my god, you know this is gonna be horrible.

2727
03:06:11.200 --> 03:06:13.280
And uh but yeah, me and
Nova went out. I think we

2728
03:06:13.360 --> 03:06:16.840
did like ten twelve minutes and it
was. It was a lot of fun.

2729
03:06:16.440 --> 03:06:20.959
And uh afterwards, Paul's like,
you know rip number one. He

2730
03:06:20.079 --> 03:06:24.399
goes, uh, I want to
talk to you after the show, right,

2731
03:06:24.440 --> 03:06:28.520
So everybody's like, you know,
hey man, that means you're in

2732
03:06:28.680 --> 03:06:31.280
yeah, and you do really good. So I didn't know, you know,

2733
03:06:31.440 --> 03:06:33.719
waiting to talk to him at five
o'clock, in the morning, and

2734
03:06:33.840 --> 03:06:41.479
it consisted of, let me ask
you a question, how old are you?

2735
03:06:41.920 --> 03:06:45.440
You go twenty five? He goes, twenty five years old. Do

2736
03:06:45.520 --> 03:06:50.680
you know that? Just incredible,
he's only twenty four years old. I

2737
03:06:50.799 --> 03:06:54.559
did not know that. And of
course maybe in the market, I am

2738
03:06:54.079 --> 03:06:58.680
I see Paul as Paulie dangerously with
the phone, hitting people in the head.

2739
03:06:58.680 --> 03:07:01.959
I'm going, wow. He goes, you could spend the rest of

2740
03:07:03.040 --> 03:07:05.840
your career here. Would you like
a job, mister Kreno? I go,

2741
03:07:05.280 --> 03:07:07.520
I won I want you know,
in my mind, I'm like,

2742
03:07:07.680 --> 03:07:11.280
yes, yes. He goes like
this. He goes, this is what

2743
03:07:11.319 --> 03:07:15.399
we're gonna do. He goes,
for ninety days, you're gonna get seventy

2744
03:07:15.440 --> 03:07:18.280
five dollars a night. I go, right then, I didn't care,

2745
03:07:18.399 --> 03:07:20.319
man, I'm thinking, oh my
god, I got a job. I

2746
03:07:20.399 --> 03:07:24.440
got a job. He goes,
go give He goes, DeBie, will

2747
03:07:24.440 --> 03:07:28.559
give you my number. That was
rib number two. You know, if

2748
03:07:28.600 --> 03:07:31.200
you've ever tried to call Paul,
and you know, I could give out

2749
03:07:31.200 --> 03:07:35.680
of his phone number because you will
never reach him. You know, he's

2750
03:07:35.719 --> 03:07:39.120
never going to answer the phone unless
you, you know, unless you he

2751
03:07:39.239 --> 03:07:43.639
really needs to talk to you.
And and I'm sure we'll get to that

2752
03:07:43.760 --> 03:07:46.760
later. So but you know,
I go over to Debbie, I give

2753
03:07:46.760 --> 03:07:48.479
her all my information, I'm all
happy and everything like this. He goes,

2754
03:07:50.239 --> 03:07:52.719
I'll see you next week, right. I'm like, oh my god,

2755
03:07:52.799 --> 03:07:54.840
Yeah, this is great. Yeah, And that's how that's how I

2756
03:07:54.879 --> 03:07:58.360
started. So that's what it's like
to break an easy debut at this flint

2757
03:07:58.799 --> 03:08:03.440
hilarious. He grew up a big
fan of George. He's a Pennsylvania kid,

2758
03:08:03.479 --> 03:08:05.959
but he grew up a big fan
of Georgia Championship Wrestling, in particular

2759
03:08:05.040 --> 03:08:09.479
Tully Blanchard, and he patterned a
lot of what he did after Tully to

2760
03:08:09.559 --> 03:08:11.680
hear him tell it. And so
when he got a chance to work with

2761
03:08:11.760 --> 03:08:13.920
the actual Dusty Rhodes, the playbook
is right there, the great Dusty Tully

2762
03:08:15.000 --> 03:08:18.319
program from Crockett. Sure, sure, and he does his best to channel

2763
03:08:18.360 --> 03:08:22.559
that and working with the Dusty Roads
in ECW and kind of bringing that back.

2764
03:08:22.079 --> 03:08:28.639
And as he's developing from that sort
of opening match, anti hardcore character

2765
03:08:28.840 --> 03:08:31.840
to somebody that's being featured more prominently, an opportunity presents itself where lymp Biscuit,

2766
03:08:31.879 --> 03:08:37.719
who as we know, is a
very popular act back then is doing

2767
03:08:37.959 --> 03:08:41.440
a stage show and for some reason
word gets the ECW's in town and word

2768
03:08:41.520 --> 03:08:46.159
gets out that they can actually do
an angle. This of course before undertakers

2769
03:08:46.159 --> 03:08:50.959
started using Roland Roland and this may
have been how WWF realized that lymp biscuit

2770
03:08:50.000 --> 03:08:54.760
Fred Durst liked wrestling and kind a
deal over there to perform at WrestleMania because

2771
03:08:54.760 --> 03:08:58.680
they worked first of these sop biscuits
doing this big ass concert and Steve Karna.

2772
03:09:00.520 --> 03:09:05.000
So, so, Fred, I
hear you're you're working with the extremists.

2773
03:09:05.520 --> 03:09:09.239
What he gets Fred Durst on the
phone, by the way, which

2774
03:09:09.239 --> 03:09:11.520
is hilarious in and of itself,
and it calls him Fred like he knows

2775
03:09:11.600 --> 03:09:16.520
him, He owes him, answers. So, so, I'm just curious

2776
03:09:16.559 --> 03:09:22.920
why you're why you like to go
to extremes. Yeah, Vince always had

2777
03:09:22.959 --> 03:09:28.479
a problem doing anything else besides plays
on words on extreme. When talking about

2778
03:09:28.479 --> 03:09:33.639
e c W as supposed to coming
here and being a superstar, can you

2779
03:09:33.680 --> 03:09:37.680
explain yourself please, Well, well, Taz were really excited to have you,

2780
03:09:37.760 --> 03:09:39.920
and let's put it this way,
we're extremely excited. Okay, yes,

2781
03:09:41.239 --> 03:09:45.319
I'll tell you what. I've never
been this extremely excited about anything.

2782
03:09:45.719 --> 03:09:48.760
Well, that's a lot. I
believe. I believe that you can go

2783
03:09:48.840 --> 03:09:54.239
to extreme heights here in WW.
How do you feel about your extremities and

2784
03:09:54.319 --> 03:09:58.959
their possibilities? Oh? Nothing,
nothing, vince My extremities feel pretty good,

2785
03:10:00.040 --> 03:10:01.879
you know, as long a second. Still get that grip, you

2786
03:10:01.920 --> 03:10:09.559
don't get that grip on people.
Fucking sounds fucking good right now, all

2787
03:10:09.719 --> 03:10:16.440
Taz, all Tazz, I don't
want I don't want to grip the grip,

2788
03:10:16.920 --> 03:10:22.520
grip, grip. He still still
doing the same ship and a whips.

2789
03:10:22.639 --> 03:10:26.200
You gotta get that grip and roll. You gotta pop, you gotta

2790
03:10:26.200 --> 03:10:31.120
pop those hips and really hold on
to that grip. Straight out of Hell's

2791
03:10:31.159 --> 03:10:35.879
kitchen. You see here, You
see here how the how he pops the

2792
03:10:35.959 --> 03:10:39.440
hips and he holds under the grip. Now Hell's kitchen from fucking red Hook

2793
03:10:39.639 --> 03:10:43.680
whatever. I don't give a fuck
Hell's kitchen. I don't give a about

2794
03:10:43.680 --> 03:10:48.040
New York neighborhoods red Hook. That
was the other one. What is Oh

2795
03:10:48.120 --> 03:10:52.399
my god, where do they announce
his son from? Something? Place?

2796
03:10:52.799 --> 03:10:54.799
Uh? Saint James Place, Saint
Mark's Place, Saint Mark's Place, Yes,

2797
03:10:56.079 --> 03:10:58.600
St Mark's place. Hook, He's
not from Red Place or something.

2798
03:11:00.040 --> 03:11:05.959
Red's play sat Red Hooks Place.
It's like, you hear about these neighborhoods

2799
03:11:05.959 --> 03:11:07.879
and you look it up, it's
like two blocks. It's like, okay,

2800
03:11:07.040 --> 03:11:09.680
is right now? Yeah, it's
nothing. I mean it's like,

2801
03:11:09.079 --> 03:11:13.280
yeah, the neighborhoods are nothing.
I mean that's like a building, like

2802
03:11:13.360 --> 03:11:16.760
a whole neighborhood. One building's name
right right. Anyway, olymp Biscuit is

2803
03:11:16.799 --> 03:11:20.879
doing a big concert. They're red
hot at the time, and somehow it

2804
03:11:20.959 --> 03:11:24.280
gets worked out with ECW that they
can do an angle during the concert.

2805
03:11:24.399 --> 03:11:26.639
So Steve Kreno gets up there in
his gear and starts cutting a promo on

2806
03:11:26.799 --> 03:11:31.840
Fred Durst about how olympis get you
know, represents the degradation of American society

2807
03:11:31.959 --> 03:11:37.639
and the defiling of American teenagers and
the downfall of everything we hold sacred and

2808
03:11:37.719 --> 03:11:39.000
that kind of holier than now thing, but at the same time being really

2809
03:11:39.040 --> 03:11:43.399
stiff and below the belt with some
of the things that he's he's saying.

2810
03:11:43.799 --> 03:11:46.319
So actually fred Durst like tells him
to shut the fuck up or something like

2811
03:11:46.399 --> 03:11:48.639
that, and then they do an
angle where Balls Mahony comes out and new

2812
03:11:48.719 --> 03:11:52.159
Jack comes out and acts Rotten come
out and they beat the shit out of

2813
03:11:52.239 --> 03:11:54.639
him, and they hold him open
and smack him with a chair. Nu

2814
03:11:54.719 --> 03:11:58.280
Jack does something to him in Kreno
actually blades on stage at Olympiscuit concert.

2815
03:11:58.879 --> 03:12:01.600
So this is fucking huge the time, I'm PRECW because Limp Biscuit's a very

2816
03:12:01.600 --> 03:12:05.799
serious deal at this point in time, and this totally you know, and

2817
03:12:05.879 --> 03:12:09.440
it was almost like a dumb luck
that Steve Corino was the guy that happened

2818
03:12:09.479 --> 03:12:13.079
to be in the position that could
deliver because he was talking for Rhino at

2819
03:12:13.120 --> 03:12:15.639
that point in time and was kind
of thought of primarily as a great talk

2820
03:12:15.680 --> 03:12:16.840
of free CW more than anything else, so they thought he'd be good for

2821
03:12:16.920 --> 03:12:22.200
this, and so he catapults that
into you know, the way to hear

2822
03:12:22.319 --> 03:12:24.760
him tell it a much higher profile
in the eyes of Hayman. You can

2823
03:12:24.799 --> 03:12:28.719
imagine if he does something like this
that you know, that's going to put

2824
03:12:28.719 --> 03:12:31.200
a premium on your name. And
just did develop more interest in Paul Himan

2825
03:12:31.399 --> 03:12:35.799
using you at a higher level.
And one thing Krina said is the TNN

2826
03:12:35.840 --> 03:12:37.200
guys in particular loved it. There
was a show in Atlanta where all the

2827
03:12:37.280 --> 03:12:41.920
TNN execs came after that and they
were all putting over how much they love

2828
03:12:41.959 --> 03:12:43.239
the limp biscuit thing. They put
it on the TNN television show, they

2829
03:12:43.280 --> 03:12:48.520
put it on hardcore television, the
Angle, and so Corrina all of a

2830
03:12:48.520 --> 03:12:52.959
sudden is like a made man because
he came through and did something really impactful.

2831
03:12:52.000 --> 03:12:56.079
And you know, Viacom, the
owners of a Spike, they're big

2832
03:12:56.280 --> 03:12:58.000
MTV all marks for like, you
know, the hot music act of the

2833
03:12:58.079 --> 03:13:03.079
time, so that that means a
lot to them that he was he didn't

2834
03:13:03.120 --> 03:13:05.319
angle with them. So that's pretty
much the springboard for Steve Creno to be

2835
03:13:05.360 --> 03:13:09.120
seen in a different light as a
single's top heel instead of just a great

2836
03:13:09.120 --> 03:13:11.399
talker. Yeah, and ECW in
this nineteen ninety nine developed, so does

2837
03:13:11.440 --> 03:13:13.600
he, and by the time we
get to guilty, he is charged.

2838
03:13:13.639 --> 03:13:18.000
In two thousand, they're in now
Alabama and Karinos in their stomping Jerry Lynn

2839
03:13:18.239 --> 03:13:20.360
calling him a washed up piece of
garbage, just like the American dream Dusty

2840
03:13:20.479 --> 03:13:24.760
Roads is. And it's kind of
a random drop of Dusty Roads's name if

2841
03:13:24.799 --> 03:13:28.600
I remember it correctly. And suddenly
Roads appears in an ECW show all of

2842
03:13:28.600 --> 03:13:33.079
a sudden, he's there, that's
crazy. And right after Karno says,

2843
03:13:33.079 --> 03:13:35.040
if Dusty Roads is here, I'd
kick his ass. And here comes the

2844
03:13:35.120 --> 03:13:37.239
dream and jeans and sneakers and throwing
elbows and body slams, and then Ryan

2845
03:13:37.319 --> 03:13:41.280
old Goore's Dusty Roads. They chant
Dusty, Dusty, Wow? What's that?

2846
03:13:43.319 --> 03:13:45.559
Then wow? And now they're on
board. You know, that's the

2847
03:13:45.600 --> 03:13:48.879
thing about ACW fans as much as
they you know, raged against the machine

2848
03:13:48.959 --> 03:13:52.200
and embraced wrestlers in large part because
they didn't think that they could get a

2849
03:13:52.239 --> 03:13:56.159
fair break in the Big two and
where the anti the Big Two, like

2850
03:13:56.360 --> 03:14:00.959
Sandman and shit whatever they got Sid
or they got Dusty Rhoades, or they

2851
03:14:01.040 --> 03:14:05.319
got Rick Rude or Jake Roberts,
j Jerry Lawler. They went fucking insane

2852
03:14:05.000 --> 03:14:11.000
to see big two superstars come to
ECW, even if they couldn't work the

2853
03:14:11.079 --> 03:14:15.319
hardcore style necessarily. Remember we joked
during the Art of War Games about how

2854
03:14:15.399 --> 03:14:20.319
Dusty said he innovated hardcore and he's
he wouldn't min getting something I'm hardcore exactly

2855
03:14:20.360 --> 03:14:22.479
because this is where this is where
that comes from. When he comes to

2856
03:14:22.639 --> 03:14:26.239
CW, they're like up his ass
about how you know, in so many

2857
03:14:26.280 --> 03:14:28.719
ways, you laid the foundation for
what we do at ec day. They

2858
03:14:28.719 --> 03:14:33.559
innovated hardcore down it. I am
the extreme baby, I'm bad baby.

2859
03:14:33.920 --> 03:14:37.799
And if I'm the innovator, that
I am owed royalties essentially right, I

2860
03:14:37.959 --> 03:14:43.000
believe that I'm back paid on ethan
W. Yeah, Dusty at this point

2861
03:14:43.000 --> 03:14:46.719
in time is not missing a single
opportunity to potentially monetize, oh, for

2862
03:14:46.799 --> 03:14:50.680
sure, any element of his personality
and legacy. He opens up like a

2863
03:14:50.719 --> 03:14:54.799
fantasy camp so that fans can sign
up to train for a couple of days

2864
03:14:54.799 --> 03:14:58.360
and work a match with a wrestler. He starts Turnbuckle Championship Wrestling and Independent

2865
03:14:58.600 --> 03:15:03.879
Wrestling operation out of out of Atlanta, trying to find a future after all

2866
03:15:03.920 --> 03:15:09.360
those years with WCW and WWF wasn't
interested in him. So this is that

2867
03:15:09.479 --> 03:15:13.360
time for Dusty where he's feeling around
and ECW was a place that actually embraced

2868
03:15:13.440 --> 03:15:18.559
him, made him feel valued,
and from what I can gather and we'll

2869
03:15:18.559 --> 03:15:20.760
talk about here, cut him a
pretty good deal. Paul was throwing money

2870
03:15:20.760 --> 03:15:24.760
around at the time, and Dusty
they could afford the American dream Dusty Roads,

2871
03:15:24.760 --> 03:15:28.840
who of course he knew and worked
fairly closely with when Dusty was booking

2872
03:15:28.879 --> 03:15:33.840
Crockett and Paul was just breaking into
the business as well as shortly after that.

2873
03:15:33.040 --> 03:15:35.879
Kind of like when Dusty came back
after the WWF Round nineteen eighty one

2874
03:15:35.959 --> 03:15:41.159
Datus alliance, that whole time period, Dusty and Paul got to know each

2875
03:15:41.200 --> 03:15:43.040
other, not unlike how Paul got
to know Terry Funk working for n WA

2876
03:15:43.159 --> 03:15:46.959
in nineteen eighty nine. And as
we talked about an elapsed Funk, kind

2877
03:15:46.000 --> 03:15:50.479
of observed Funk in the heroics that
he displayed getting into the ring with Rick

2878
03:15:50.479 --> 03:15:52.639
Flair despite his broken back at the
Great American Bash nineteen eighty nine and having

2879
03:15:52.680 --> 03:15:56.639
such a fantastic match him citing that
all those years later at Terry Funk's retirement

2880
03:15:56.680 --> 03:16:01.639
bank, what's kind of like the
the inspiration for the heart of what he

2881
03:16:01.799 --> 03:16:07.000
saw ECW to be like an expression
of what Terry Funk showed that night and

2882
03:16:07.120 --> 03:16:09.959
then ahead of that night. So
these are like little connections that Paul's making

2883
03:16:11.040 --> 03:16:13.079
that they're paying off in ECW.
Remember arn Anderson came in, Remember when

2884
03:16:13.079 --> 03:16:16.639
I hit you with that during Lapsed
Funk, Arn Anderson and ec god Yes

2885
03:16:16.760 --> 03:16:22.040
and Bobby eating these other dangerous Alliance
guys. You know, Paul made good

2886
03:16:22.040 --> 03:16:26.200
friendships there and is able to call
upon them to pretty high profile guys into

2887
03:16:26.239 --> 03:16:30.159
what you so weird, so weird. They didn't see it as going to

2888
03:16:30.200 --> 03:16:31.879
work for this distant number three little
group. They saw it as going to

2889
03:16:31.879 --> 03:16:35.719
work for Paul e. You know. That's that's that's more palatable, you

2890
03:16:35.799 --> 03:16:39.799
know, than just going to work
for this this new renegade group. So

2891
03:16:39.920 --> 03:16:43.719
here's the dream. He's part of
ECW now and he's attacking Steve Corino.

2892
03:16:43.760 --> 03:16:46.920
He's got Steve Corino in his sights. And then after that guilty charged January

2893
03:16:46.959 --> 03:16:52.239
two thousand, pay per view over
on TNN, Corrino cuts a promo when

2894
03:16:52.280 --> 03:16:56.799
they do a television taping with Dusty
in the crowd, and we're we're underway.

2895
03:16:58.520 --> 03:17:05.559
I figure it out. He styles, there's one man that was stupid

2896
03:17:05.760 --> 03:17:31.159
enough to start the hardcore revolution,
and that man is Dusty Rose. He's

2897
03:17:31.200 --> 03:17:37.079
a w K trying for hasty taste. You know, I'm sure Paul Hamon's

2898
03:17:37.120 --> 03:17:43.200
gonna bleep this out now. Since
I mentioned your name, and since I

2899
03:17:43.399 --> 03:17:50.600
had nothing to lose, Dusty,
I would like to thank you for ruining

2900
03:17:50.719 --> 03:18:05.879
in each and every one of these
people's lives, because ninety percent of I'm

2901
03:18:05.040 --> 03:18:16.239
probably trunk right now. Hey,
leearhim going all the time around? Talk

2902
03:18:16.319 --> 03:18:26.239
with you again? Oh, I
guess Dusty Round left his sline at the

2903
03:18:26.440 --> 03:18:48.159
last place, study tail, mister
Rose, mister dreaming, sir, Please

2904
03:18:48.319 --> 03:19:00.959
tho, we're not taking this Lea
think him. I don't didn't think it's

2905
03:19:00.959 --> 03:19:11.559
a contract any Chillie. I'm a
big boy. I haven't beaten everybody up

2906
03:19:11.600 --> 03:19:16.840
in the locker room in the last
year. Didn't think I'm gonna let it

2907
03:19:16.959 --> 03:19:33.719
old fossil push me around. You
see, Dusty Roads, the business has

2908
03:19:33.040 --> 03:19:39.600
changed since. This isn't nineteen eighty
five anymore, and you're not the ball

2909
03:19:39.680 --> 03:19:50.760
in the woods in my territory anymore. That's how Shore I eat Dusty.

2910
03:19:52.280 --> 03:19:56.120
To add all those great phrases,
do you have anything to say for yourself?

2911
03:19:56.799 --> 03:20:07.959
No, I didn't think so.
To see Dusty just starting into the

2912
03:20:07.079 --> 03:20:16.600
eyes of the future professional wrestling,
I have no respect for you. I

2913
03:20:16.879 --> 03:21:16.040
never did look at me whenout talking
to you. Exlam loves apping the bionic

2914
03:21:16.120 --> 03:21:20.440
elbow there at the end of Jesus, how's going nuts? That's insane,

2915
03:21:20.559 --> 03:21:22.600
that's for Dusty. You like that
line, You're out the bull of the

2916
03:21:22.600 --> 03:21:26.239
woods in my territory, I do. I like that. That's pretty good

2917
03:21:26.280 --> 03:21:30.120
work there. That's great. Yeah, I know a problem with him.

2918
03:21:30.120 --> 03:21:35.559
I like him, and it compelled
Dusty to up his game. He I'm

2919
03:21:35.559 --> 03:21:39.440
not sure he cut much in the
way of in ring promos in the CCW

2920
03:21:39.680 --> 03:21:41.360
run, but he did send him
a tape Like the old territory days.

2921
03:21:41.879 --> 03:21:45.760
You know, Funk used to do
the promos from the ranch. Yeah,

2922
03:21:46.079 --> 03:21:48.040
yeah, he does one that they
play in ECW TV that I think,

2923
03:21:50.040 --> 03:21:52.799
not Tobias the Jury is just just
fantastic. It's one of the best Dusty

2924
03:21:52.879 --> 03:21:56.559
promos I've ever heard. So he
is upping his game. He is feeling

2925
03:21:58.000 --> 03:22:01.479
he's feeling the pressure to make this
a really big run. I feel like,

2926
03:22:01.959 --> 03:22:05.360
sure, and here he is.
No, Cyrus, this is not

2927
03:22:05.799 --> 03:22:13.799
the network camera crew, if you
will, this is Dusty Rooms' psychedelic camera

2928
03:22:13.920 --> 03:22:20.079
crew ECWS bars in Town. I
want to talk about you for just one

2929
03:22:20.159 --> 03:22:30.840
minute, Cyrus. I forgot more
about television production, about networking, about

2930
03:22:31.200 --> 03:22:37.200
drawing money then you'll ever know it. Paul has also walked down that path.

2931
03:22:39.440 --> 03:22:41.200
One thing that you do better than
we do, though, when it

2932
03:22:41.280 --> 03:22:48.280
comes to networking, if you will
in public, it's kissing ass. Network's

2933
03:22:48.319 --> 03:22:56.280
not gonna stop me from my next
foray. If you will, we'll come

2934
03:22:56.319 --> 03:23:01.120
out here Florida on my ranch and
talk about Dusty roll the bull open Steve

2935
03:23:01.239 --> 03:23:05.360
Corino dragging your name and your family
and putting out all kinds of threats,

2936
03:23:05.079 --> 03:23:09.360
making a guy get fifty eight his
stitches on television. A blood letting,

2937
03:23:09.399 --> 03:23:11.520
they say it was. They said
it was a blood letting. Gon't hollick

2938
03:23:11.600 --> 03:23:16.040
if you will all on my account. I didn't come to E c W

2939
03:23:16.559 --> 03:23:20.959
to stop this thing. I didn't
come here to get over I didn't come

2940
03:23:22.000 --> 03:23:26.399
here to be love heavyweight chemmy hell
already done that. But I got thrown

2941
03:23:26.520 --> 03:23:33.920
into a situation with some bad ombridge
Jackie vick Frey rying overhead and young Steve

2942
03:23:35.079 --> 03:23:41.639
Corino trying to touch just a little
bit of that lightning boat that crushes so

2943
03:23:41.719 --> 03:23:45.639
heavily through the sky called Dusty Roads. Well, let me tell you someone

2944
03:23:45.639 --> 03:23:48.600
I decided to do. I got
my Bullope, it's in the bag,

2945
03:23:50.520 --> 03:23:54.319
it's got a new bell on it. Because what's gonna happen now is I'm

2946
03:23:54.440 --> 03:24:00.879
accepting that situation that I've thrown into
I will be at Living Dangers only on

2947
03:24:01.000 --> 03:24:05.319
pay per view. You can't see
this only but pay per view des Heero

2948
03:24:05.479 --> 03:24:09.399
via macadream strapping it on his arm
one more Time's help. I invented hardcore.

2949
03:24:09.760 --> 03:24:15.000
I was doing bunk houses, bull
ropes, Texas death matches by why

2950
03:24:15.159 --> 03:24:18.760
burn Somebody's as something matches long before
you was bon Carino for yeah, you

2951
03:24:18.799 --> 03:24:22.040
done got yourself into it. Now
better think about how you're gonna get out.

2952
03:24:22.200 --> 03:24:26.120
You ain't gonna get out Living Jajus
say only on pay view. Dust

2953
03:24:26.239 --> 03:24:30.879
rovia macadream Sleeve Greeno tied on,
take about this do let's take about you

2954
03:24:30.959 --> 03:24:33.799
a history of buff and yeah,
yeah, you're a history of buff.

2955
03:24:33.520 --> 03:24:37.520
Take about the history of the heads
and blood that had been on some of

2956
03:24:37.600 --> 03:24:43.719
my cow bells, the Holly Racists, the Flawers, the Jolaeduce, the

2957
03:24:43.840 --> 03:24:48.040
Prince cut his eye cares. We
talked about Cawbar, Bill Watts talking about

2958
03:24:48.079 --> 03:24:52.920
Superstar being a grand medical squack Aden
ever first ever hardcore bullo match, talking

2959
03:24:52.959 --> 03:24:56.639
about the legacy of the Funks,
whether be doing Funk or Carry Funk or

2960
03:24:56.719 --> 03:25:03.000
Papa Funk. All motherfuck it doesn't
they've all felt the steel of the mighty

2961
03:25:03.079 --> 03:25:07.600
bull rope. But a new bill
is waiting on you, and I'm gonna

2962
03:25:07.600 --> 03:25:11.760
break it to a living day justly
only on pay per view. And let

2963
03:25:11.760 --> 03:25:15.680
me tell you something, STEVEE when
it's over. You know, I kind

2964
03:25:15.719 --> 03:25:18.520
of had my ass kick got about
three or four times by this Rhino guy.

2965
03:25:18.319 --> 03:25:22.319
And I ain't said much about him, you know, but you kind

2966
03:25:22.319 --> 03:25:26.920
of got my juices up. Now
remember this, my friend, I'm in

2967
03:25:26.000 --> 03:25:33.639
the ball game to stay Living Dangerously
only on pay per view, The America

2968
03:25:33.719 --> 03:25:37.959
Dreaming Stevie Carrino bull Rope, I
ain't gonna get no better than that.

2969
03:25:39.920 --> 03:25:45.000
Pretty good? Yeah, that's great
feeling it in my veins. That's that's

2970
03:25:45.120 --> 03:25:50.440
Dusty really really trying, you know. Oh yeah, really like buy this

2971
03:25:50.559 --> 03:25:56.840
pay per view please. That's great
stuff, So fantastic playing off. Yeah,

2972
03:25:58.959 --> 03:26:01.559
that's what I point to. And
I look at an ECW Living Dangerously

2973
03:26:01.639 --> 03:26:05.239
two thousand by right, that was
a fair level above what ECW was accustomed

2974
03:26:05.280 --> 03:26:09.879
to doing. Is that kind of
shit? Yeah? On this program.

2975
03:26:09.719 --> 03:26:16.399
As to what's going on in Steve
Corino's head that he's not expressing, you

2976
03:26:16.440 --> 03:26:18.639
know, from a shoot perspective,
at this point in time, he talks

2977
03:26:18.639 --> 03:26:22.280
about working with Dusty. Here in
the shoot interview, what is your most

2978
03:26:22.360 --> 03:26:28.840
memorable accomplishment wrestling Dusty Roads on paper
view? Wrestling Dusty Roads in that Bullo

2979
03:26:28.920 --> 03:26:33.479
Roup match? Because sure, my
big hero was Tully or Tully and Dusty

2980
03:26:33.559 --> 03:26:37.159
had the all those Bullood matches.
And like the greatest thing Paul ever said

2981
03:26:37.159 --> 03:26:39.520
to me when I got back was
he gave me a hug and he goes

2982
03:26:39.559 --> 03:26:41.840
like this, he goes, that
was better than Tully ever did. And

2983
03:26:41.000 --> 03:26:45.120
man, as you know, not
that I'm a big fan of Paul,

2984
03:26:45.440 --> 03:26:48.639
but man, that was like the
greatest compliment of all time I've ever gotten

2985
03:26:50.159 --> 03:26:52.959
because I've always strived, I always
strive to make the matches of what would

2986
03:26:52.959 --> 03:26:56.479
Tully do in the spot? What
would tell you? I had never discussed

2987
03:26:56.479 --> 03:26:58.840
it with Paul, and he saw
it, so yeah, and just being

2988
03:27:00.120 --> 03:27:03.360
not few with us, he was
like the greatest thing, so a big

2989
03:27:03.440 --> 03:27:09.479
career highlight and in terms of it
coming together, already heard him scream at

2990
03:27:09.559 --> 03:27:16.200
him. So I think that that'll
do on that front. As for how

2991
03:27:16.280 --> 03:27:18.799
Dusty felt about it, well,
he was loving it too. Of course,

2992
03:27:18.879 --> 03:27:22.079
as mentioned, he just started a
term Buckle Championship Wrestling his own attempt

2993
03:27:22.159 --> 03:27:26.959
to set up an office, but
ECW was the place he turned to for

2994
03:27:28.920 --> 03:27:31.879
I don't guaranteed money, but more
stable money at a time when he when

2995
03:27:31.920 --> 03:27:35.920
he badly needed it. And because
his book Reflections of American Wrestling's American Dream

2996
03:27:37.200 --> 03:27:43.840
came out at around the time that
he was in ECW, it was kind

2997
03:27:43.840 --> 03:27:50.120
of reflective of his mentality on the
business in that period between w CW closing

2998
03:27:50.280 --> 03:27:54.159
and returning to WWE as an agent
and an n XT guru. He spends

2999
03:27:54.159 --> 03:27:58.879
a lot of time in the book
talking for our benefit here about ECW in

3000
03:27:58.959 --> 03:28:01.719
those years, and I'd like to
turn it over to the boss Man to

3001
03:28:01.799 --> 03:28:07.200
share reflections for American Dream on what
going to w That's what I'm going to

3002
03:28:07.360 --> 03:28:09.799
sid W is all about, Daddy. We're going to extreme levels, if

3003
03:28:09.840 --> 03:28:13.239
you know what I'm saying. We
go to extremities, We go to the

3004
03:28:13.319 --> 03:28:16.559
extreme, we go take it up
and down and all around. Baby.

3005
03:28:18.760 --> 03:28:22.000
After the fall of the small Roman
empart known as the World Championship Bresident in

3006
03:28:22.000 --> 03:28:28.399
the late nineties, I found myself
fucked over first by my assistant for many

3007
03:28:28.479 --> 03:28:33.799
years, James Jed Dillon and then
by real half witted accountant who Turner Properties

3008
03:28:33.079 --> 03:28:39.399
put in charge of WSIW Bill bush
Man, the business was shot to hell

3009
03:28:39.440 --> 03:28:43.719
in a handbag anyway. Out of
work for about twenty minutes, I formed

3010
03:28:43.719 --> 03:28:50.000
my own companies, Turnbuckle Entertainment and
Turnbuckle Championship Breathen Is that close to Turner

3011
03:28:50.120 --> 03:28:56.040
Entertainment by the way, sounds yeah
right? TCW. Little did I know,

3012
03:28:56.200 --> 03:29:00.680
however, that the independent wrestling business
was more fucked up than w W.

3013
03:29:01.479 --> 03:29:03.799
Well, I found what I mostly
found a fade from the handful of

3014
03:29:03.920 --> 03:29:09.360
legit guys out there were who were
really trying with the business was now made

3015
03:29:09.440 --> 03:29:13.319
up of kids promoting shows because they
went out on the we w on the

3016
03:29:13.399 --> 03:29:20.360
internet and they bought a computer,
and the computer took my job. How

3017
03:29:20.399 --> 03:29:22.840
did they go on the internet by
a computer? How if they didn't have

3018
03:29:22.879 --> 03:29:26.399
a computer, how did they go
on the internet. I'm telling you that

3019
03:29:26.440 --> 03:29:31.319
if I'll get some kids work these
days, baby in the library. Maybe

3020
03:29:33.600 --> 03:29:35.479
because they went on the internet and
bought a promotion book or something, or

3021
03:29:35.520 --> 03:29:39.399
they read the sheep from the guys
who never promoted a show in their life

3022
03:29:39.680 --> 03:29:43.399
and ran those shows off of what
these guys thought was good. And then

3023
03:29:43.479 --> 03:29:46.479
they made a They made a bought
a belt, a champion in the world,

3024
03:29:46.600 --> 03:29:50.639
of course, and made themselves champion. It was no longer a blueprint

3025
03:29:50.719 --> 03:29:56.760
of the mafia with regional godfathers,
but rather a blueprint of our gang comedy.

3026
03:29:58.280 --> 03:30:05.239
What what's our gang comedy? Arcane
comedy? Our gang comedy? Sure

3027
03:30:05.239 --> 03:30:09.920
what he means by that? And
the local wrestlers were alfalfa, it's the

3028
03:30:09.079 --> 03:30:18.920
the show the well know little wrestles, and the local wrestlers were our fal

3029
03:30:18.000 --> 03:30:24.440
from butch with spanky and dollars.
The promoters and all of that wasn't bad

3030
03:30:24.600 --> 03:30:28.079
enough. Some of these guys who
never drew it downs worth a business with

3031
03:30:28.319 --> 03:30:33.159
anybody and couldn't draw a fly that
they were covered with ship were opening wrestling

3032
03:30:33.239 --> 03:30:37.840
schools, teaching other guys who knew
even less than they did all the stuff

3033
03:30:37.920 --> 03:30:41.600
they knew which could fit on the
head of a pin and still have room

3034
03:30:41.719 --> 03:30:45.360
left over for some of the other
promoters who were doing the same thing.

3035
03:30:46.159 --> 03:30:50.680
That's why earlier I said Murdoch would
fought on the sounds, good kid fought

3036
03:30:50.799 --> 03:30:54.079
on that daddy f art. To
be clear, all right, baby,

3037
03:30:54.760 --> 03:30:58.120
I think you get the picture.
And it ain't really a pretty one.

3038
03:30:58.360 --> 03:31:03.319
So when I I gotta let go
by General Bush, the IRF agent accounting

3039
03:31:03.319 --> 03:31:05.760
of whatever he was there, I
started tv W and I went into that,

3040
03:31:07.280 --> 03:31:09.799
but I also started working the Independent. Why would Dusty, dating back

3041
03:31:09.840 --> 03:31:13.719
to Crockett and here, have such
a problem with accountants. I don't get

3042
03:31:13.760 --> 03:31:18.760
it. I never really worked independance
before. And Terry Funk warned me it's

3043
03:31:18.920 --> 03:31:22.719
really rough out there, but I
didn't believe it because he'd been doing it

3044
03:31:22.760 --> 03:31:26.399
for so long making a living.
He said, it's a it's a constant

3045
03:31:26.479 --> 03:31:31.840
hustle. It's just really a hustle
to do it. I got that way.

3046
03:31:31.760 --> 03:31:37.040
Yeah, Well I went out and
I went ahead and told Dusty it's

3047
03:31:37.280 --> 03:31:41.559
a constant hustle, it's just really
a hustle to do it. And then

3048
03:31:41.559 --> 03:31:46.000
I went ahead and put my head
into a shotgun and blew it off.

3049
03:31:46.319 --> 03:31:52.600
Mom Oh, I like that.
I got that trails off a mom and

3050
03:31:52.680 --> 03:31:56.559
it's just like where are we?
So I kind of tharted out of my

3051
03:31:56.639 --> 03:32:01.319
own making myself available for Independent and
the Prophet. One day, out of

3052
03:32:01.360 --> 03:32:09.120
the blue, I got a call
from Paul Dangeredly, So I guess so

3053
03:32:09.440 --> 03:32:13.639
what I don't understand. So when
did he get fired from? But he

3054
03:32:13.719 --> 03:32:16.360
was working to c W in two
thousand and one. He came back after

3055
03:32:16.479 --> 03:32:20.159
ACW. Oh, I see there
was a perird of time where he was

3056
03:32:20.280 --> 03:32:24.319
not working at WCW. That's a
fucking bird here. He was in ECW,

3057
03:32:24.000 --> 03:32:28.159
which is why the serendipity drove me
nuts when you pulled this one after

3058
03:32:28.239 --> 03:32:31.280
we did Greed. Yeah, yeah, no, it's all legit, all

3059
03:32:31.319 --> 03:32:35.319
legit. I wouldn't also, I
wouldn't fucking know. Oh totally, Yeah,

3060
03:32:35.760 --> 03:32:41.440
that's you know, Extreme Championship Refdent
at that time already had that Culton

3061
03:32:41.520 --> 03:32:43.799
niche going on around the country,
around the world, and Paul E.

3062
03:32:45.239 --> 03:32:48.799
Paul Hayman called me to say they
were going to be at the Tabernacle in

3063
03:32:48.879 --> 03:32:52.079
Atlanta, Georgia, a building that
used to be the House of the Blue.

3064
03:32:52.879 --> 03:32:56.600
He and the partner at the time, after me, would you cut

3065
03:32:56.680 --> 03:33:01.239
to come to ETHERI W with W. I knew that are unique. Fans

3066
03:33:01.319 --> 03:33:07.200
were a group of loyal followers,
kind of like the insane clown Poffy followers

3067
03:33:07.879 --> 03:33:11.840
who had dedicated to the wrestling papers, the Sheets and the home of ethid

3068
03:33:13.000 --> 03:33:16.079
W Court within Philadelphia, at Vacken
Hall, a Bengo Pola that the fans

3069
03:33:16.159 --> 03:33:20.399
renamed the ethid w Arena. So
I went with Paul at the at a

3070
03:33:20.520 --> 03:33:24.440
time when I was th really down
business wide because the independents were not paying

3071
03:33:24.520 --> 03:33:28.600
what I wanted. I figured my
press with a certain amount and I wasn't

3072
03:33:28.639 --> 03:33:35.040
going to come off it. Turmbucle
Entertainment did well the first year because but

3073
03:33:35.159 --> 03:33:39.280
then it went down and down with
spiral because I didn't We just didn't do

3074
03:33:39.440 --> 03:33:43.680
things right. Why didn't you do
things right now? Why did you choose

3075
03:33:43.719 --> 03:33:46.879
to do them right instead of wrong
right? Maybe just no one cared well

3076
03:33:46.959 --> 03:33:50.280
a while. The people I have
to round in it and actually worked working

3077
03:33:50.360 --> 03:33:52.959
for me, worked very hard.
We just all didn't do anything right.

3078
03:33:58.440 --> 03:34:01.680
I just I was putting one of
my chairs together Daddy for my death,

3079
03:34:01.920 --> 03:34:05.559
and I just fell upon because I
didn't put all the truth and I couldn't

3080
03:34:05.559 --> 03:34:07.799
put any scows that I just didn't
do it wrong. I worked really hard

3081
03:34:07.879 --> 03:34:11.719
doing everything wrong. We worked hard
at getting everything wrong. He said,

3082
03:34:13.120 --> 03:34:16.200
It's exactly what it was that we
worked. We worked really hard, but

3083
03:34:16.280 --> 03:34:20.639
we worked hard doing it the wrong
way. You know what I'm saying that

3084
03:34:20.840 --> 03:34:22.079
we didn't you know. We had
the blueprint in front of it, and

3085
03:34:22.159 --> 03:34:24.920
we said, you know what,
we don't need the blueprint. We know

3086
03:34:24.079 --> 03:34:28.879
exactly what we're doing. We don't
need papers, we don't need to be

3087
03:34:28.000 --> 03:34:31.479
shown the way. We just need
to do it, daddy. And that

3088
03:34:31.639 --> 03:34:33.479
was the wrong way. And we
worked so hard at that got it.

3089
03:34:37.079 --> 03:34:39.360
We just thought couldn't do anything,
didn't do anything right. If I had

3090
03:34:39.399 --> 03:34:43.360
to do it over again, I
would, I would, but you can't

3091
03:34:43.440 --> 03:34:46.840
go back. At that point,
I said to myself, I'm gonna have

3092
03:34:46.040 --> 03:34:50.040
to go out and hustle something like
Tara told me. As a result,

3093
03:34:50.159 --> 03:34:54.719
I went down there and made a
deal with them, a very lucrative deal

3094
03:34:54.719 --> 03:34:58.000
at the time, and I really
thought it was payback from Paul E when

3095
03:34:58.000 --> 03:35:01.639
I have him and I hide him
at w to do the original Midnight Express

3096
03:35:01.680 --> 03:35:05.879
angle and with the Newton mid Night
Express and Jim Cornette. Anyway, he

3097
03:35:05.000 --> 03:35:07.559
picked me up and it was like
he said, come on, I'm gonna

3098
03:35:07.600 --> 03:35:11.280
give you this this amount of money
no matter what you do. At that

3099
03:35:11.399 --> 03:35:16.120
point in time, it it was
kind of a godsend because it was really

3100
03:35:16.280 --> 03:35:20.959
rough. Because of that, I
was always very appreciative and I honestly didn't

3101
03:35:20.040 --> 03:35:24.840
know at the time what was going
to go on with their inner workings or

3102
03:35:24.920 --> 03:35:28.319
anything else like that. Though.
I went to the Tabernacle in Atlanta and

3103
03:35:28.440 --> 03:35:31.319
I did the spot with me hitting
the ring on Steve Carrino the first time

3104
03:35:31.360 --> 03:35:35.639
I had ever seen him, the
guy that had been around on the Independence

3105
03:35:35.639 --> 03:35:39.520
that could have all been though respectful, but never were there a group a

3106
03:35:39.639 --> 03:35:45.000
guy like the one that Polly had
who was as respectful as these guys were

3107
03:35:45.079 --> 03:35:48.719
too. The old school and what
I brought to the dance. They made

3108
03:35:48.760 --> 03:35:52.959
me feel really at home and it
was really cool. I remember the day,

3109
03:35:54.159 --> 03:36:00.799
who's he quoting? Here? Who's
he quoting? Oh? Steve,

3110
03:36:01.360 --> 03:36:05.799
Yes. I remember the day I
met him like it was yesterday. It

3111
03:36:05.920 --> 03:36:09.120
was December second, nineteen ninety nine
in Atlanta, and I thought the dream

3112
03:36:09.159 --> 03:36:11.159
who just left WCW, was there
to say hi to some people he knew

3113
03:36:11.360 --> 03:36:16.000
who were working for ECW at the
time. Never in my wildest dreams had

3114
03:36:16.040 --> 03:36:20.000
I thought I would be eye to
eye with him in the ring less than

3115
03:36:20.120 --> 03:36:24.520
three hours later there with a TV
tape in there, And when I hit

3116
03:36:24.600 --> 03:36:28.760
the ring, it was a phenomenal
With Bomp my debut with a surprise.

3117
03:36:28.840 --> 03:36:33.000
But Corino and I went on to
have a feud and I helped further his

3118
03:36:33.200 --> 03:36:35.639
career when he beat me in a
bull rope match of the ETHW Arena.

3119
03:36:37.040 --> 03:36:39.920
So we went on and made TV
and I was still working trying to make

3120
03:36:39.920 --> 03:36:43.639
an iependant at the time of my
own PAULI brought me up to the ETHW

3121
03:36:43.760 --> 03:36:48.280
Arena for the first time. He
was about twenty degrees out five. I

3122
03:36:48.399 --> 03:36:52.440
from the street, cold as shit. I read different articles on the Internet

3123
03:36:52.479 --> 03:36:56.840
about how the fan I want to
see Dusty Rhodes trying to channel the nitt

3124
03:36:58.040 --> 03:37:00.959
all right, that is like a
fucking must, Like, what is he

3125
03:37:01.079 --> 03:37:05.280
doing well? The trick guys of
his vintage had The problem that guys of

3126
03:37:05.360 --> 03:37:09.319
his vintage had at the time is
obsessively reading everything that's said about you on

3127
03:37:09.399 --> 03:37:11.120
the internet and then pretending you never
look at it. Yeah, that was

3128
03:37:11.120 --> 03:37:15.040
the part. But I just want
to see him, like, I just

3129
03:37:15.079 --> 03:37:18.360
can't picture him typing words on a
computer. You know who would have helped

3130
03:37:18.399 --> 03:37:22.879
him as Cody Cody running around I
think it's in high school. You shut

3131
03:37:22.959 --> 03:37:28.559
the fuck up, you dumb bitch. I'm trying to natch him and Fritz

3132
03:37:28.600 --> 03:37:31.360
van Erk on the Windows ninety seven
machine, trying to figure out how to

3133
03:37:31.360 --> 03:37:37.520
trade stocks and cattle futures. You
don't understand that, if this is technological

3134
03:37:37.600 --> 03:37:41.239
bullshit, you don't understand. You've
never had a computer to take your job,

3135
03:37:41.440 --> 03:37:45.760
he says. He says, you
don't understand this is technological bullshit.

3136
03:37:46.959 --> 03:37:50.079
Yeah, Dusty, something about the
way you put it does make it seem

3137
03:37:50.120 --> 03:37:54.920
hard to understand, considering it's bullshit, which you wouldn't know anything about.

3138
03:37:56.159 --> 03:38:00.239
This ship is written to make people
can food, daddy, So you don't

3139
03:38:00.280 --> 03:38:03.840
even talk to me fun. You
ship the fuck up, all right,

3140
03:38:03.879 --> 03:38:11.639
and you do your goddamn academic your
academic home work if you will. You

3141
03:38:11.719 --> 03:38:16.200
can picture him saying that if you
trying to make homework, if you will,

3142
03:38:16.520 --> 03:38:18.879
all right, then if you don't, if you don't get that ship

3143
03:38:20.040 --> 03:38:22.799
done, I'm gonna chop you up, put you in the student after dinner,

3144
03:38:22.959 --> 03:38:31.879
fucking count country road with what your
name is? H motherfucker? What

3145
03:38:33.959 --> 03:38:41.079
he talking about? What we just
heard? We just heard E W can

3146
03:38:41.200 --> 03:38:46.120
tap whether E E E waitmen or
Dusty d D? Where's the damn D?

3147
03:38:48.079 --> 03:38:52.440
I don't know a bitch, where
the fucking d tell you little bit,

3148
03:38:52.559 --> 03:39:01.920
she said, the roads are are
are are? What the fuck?

3149
03:39:03.360 --> 03:39:07.479
Why ain't this ship in alphaetical order? Go to? Gim me the goddamn

3150
03:39:07.719 --> 03:39:16.000
r Where the fucking I'm the keyboard
daddy. He's the only father who calls

3151
03:39:16.040 --> 03:39:24.760
his son daddy, and Steve Austin
the only guy who calls his father son.

3152
03:39:31.920 --> 03:39:37.879
Oh shit. On the internet,
what are they doing? Well,

3153
03:39:37.920 --> 03:39:41.920
of course the fans knew different on
the internet about how the fans in the

3154
03:39:43.040 --> 03:39:46.440
place that he sit and rest lives. And I wondered how they were gonna

3155
03:39:46.440 --> 03:39:50.040
receieve me if I didn't go there. Well, of course the fans knew

3156
03:39:50.079 --> 03:39:52.360
I was in Philly, but they
didn't know how I was gonna have it,

3157
03:39:52.920 --> 03:39:56.000
how I was gonna make it into
my entrance there. How, Paul,

3158
03:39:56.040 --> 03:39:58.600
do you have me go outside and
wait for the right time? There?

3159
03:39:58.639 --> 03:40:03.079
Running from the thad door, Like
I said, it was about twenty

3160
03:40:03.120 --> 03:40:07.280
degrees without fad and I stood about
there there about twenty minutes. It's about

3161
03:40:07.280 --> 03:40:11.520
to free them up, balls off. And then then the time came and

3162
03:40:11.639 --> 03:40:15.000
I had to received the reception like
I had, like I like I did

3163
03:40:15.079 --> 03:40:18.559
from those fans in quite a long
time, said, Dusty standing outside the

3164
03:40:18.680 --> 03:40:22.120
CW Arena and you're just driving by
and he's about to make his debut in

3165
03:40:22.159 --> 03:40:26.479
the building and he's waiting for the
high Side and he's like sitting there,

3166
03:40:26.520 --> 03:40:28.760
you know, he's standing there like, you know, arms folded, like

3167
03:40:28.840 --> 03:40:35.680
trying to just Oh this motherfucking Northern
with the Deddy goddamn fucking cock fucking bitches.

3168
03:40:35.799 --> 03:40:37.559
You know what I'm saying. We
saw the arena when we went to

3169
03:40:37.639 --> 03:40:39.719
Philly, like that industrial area it's
in. He's like standing there, Oh

3170
03:40:39.799 --> 03:40:43.440
yeahous, oh yeah, that wouldn't
be cars driving by at all. Actually,

3171
03:40:43.520 --> 03:40:46.879
God, I know it might be
people with guns walking by or that

3172
03:40:48.200 --> 03:40:52.559
maybe that uh maybe that Chief take
place. Oh yeah, oh yeah,

3173
03:40:52.639 --> 03:40:56.000
you're there. Oh yeah, oh
yeah, that's probably where he waited it

3174
03:40:56.079 --> 03:40:58.639
out. But then I tell you
what I'm gonna fit over. Tell you

3175
03:40:58.760 --> 03:41:03.399
what I'm gonna give you. I'm
gonna go to the Chief Steak place over

3176
03:41:03.479 --> 03:41:05.040
here. You give him a call, tell me when you want me to

3177
03:41:05.079 --> 03:41:09.360
be and give me about ten minutes
though. Give me about twenty minutes though,

3178
03:41:09.360 --> 03:41:11.959
because I'm gonna have to eat shit
and then come back to gyms.

3179
03:41:11.000 --> 03:41:16.319
By the way, Jimmy I'm gonna
go to gyms though. I'm gonna have

3180
03:41:16.399 --> 03:41:20.440
myself a chief fake have a pork
fam which. Baby, I'm gonna get

3181
03:41:20.479 --> 03:41:24.479
that ship down my gutt. But
I'm gonna have to take a ship before

3182
03:41:24.479 --> 03:41:26.360
I come back, Ollie, when
you're ready for me to run into let

3183
03:41:26.399 --> 03:41:28.680
the Malican dream. Now, I'm
gonna be a gems baby, I want

3184
03:41:28.680 --> 03:41:31.840
to be a gym. I'm gonna
be spending my money, got it?

3185
03:41:33.239 --> 03:41:37.120
And I just said tell you Daddy
again, I'm gonna need an extra You're

3186
03:41:37.120 --> 03:41:39.920
gonna get me know, twenty minutes
before time because I'm gonna have to unload

3187
03:41:39.959 --> 03:41:43.079
the American dream from my ass.
I mean, it was cold as balls

3188
03:41:43.159 --> 03:41:46.840
mere out there, but can you
imagine the steam off a gym's chief steak

3189
03:41:46.840 --> 03:41:58.479
when it's like at first bite it
was great, big thumbs up, highest

3190
03:41:58.479 --> 03:42:03.879
recommendation. Oh yeah, worth the
fucking weight. All those fucking wrestling family

3191
03:42:05.520 --> 03:42:11.799
miserable. We had a stake.
She's staking the room. Sure it did

3192
03:42:13.040 --> 03:42:16.959
a little step up from a burger
in the room, or step maybe a

3193
03:42:16.959 --> 03:42:18.200
step down actually, who knows,
depending on where you're looking at it.

3194
03:42:20.959 --> 03:42:22.520
Huh. I just said love it, That's all I said. Oh yeah,

3195
03:42:22.959 --> 03:42:26.120
party had me go out that way
to about twenty degree. I said,

3196
03:42:26.120 --> 03:42:28.360
they're twenty minutes. It's feeding my
ball off. And then when the

3197
03:42:28.440 --> 03:42:31.479
time came and I hadn't with it
you but and now I was thinking was

3198
03:42:31.600 --> 03:42:33.440
more out of the respect for me
and coming down to the building because it

3199
03:42:33.600 --> 03:42:37.440
was really with the Fans building,
coming into their home, coming into that

3200
03:42:37.639 --> 03:42:41.799
organization, and they really respected me
for it. That that thought they gave

3201
03:42:41.879 --> 03:42:46.280
me that shot me arm at that
point in time. So we went on

3202
03:42:46.520 --> 03:42:48.680
and just kept on with E f
W. And I was doing I wasn't

3203
03:42:48.719 --> 03:42:52.239
doing a lot, just showing up, but I was getting paid and doing

3204
03:42:52.280 --> 03:42:56.360
a lot of things. So he
wasn't doing a lot, but he was

3205
03:42:56.399 --> 03:42:58.680
showing up, getting paid and doing
a lot of things. Was it not

3206
03:42:58.799 --> 03:43:00.920
doing a lot or doing a lot
of things? Dusty, it's got to

3207
03:43:00.920 --> 03:43:03.000
be one of you. You got
to make up Youah, you can't not

3208
03:43:03.159 --> 03:43:07.559
do a lot and you can't you
know, I'm sure who is this speaking?

3209
03:43:09.879 --> 03:43:13.840
Who is that? That's a tough
one. These quote Steve need another

3210
03:43:13.840 --> 03:43:18.479
step. I'm sure most people would
say that they admired dreams charisma or the

3211
03:43:18.479 --> 03:43:22.200
way he sold for the Heels or
even his booking style. The thing I

3212
03:43:22.319 --> 03:43:24.600
admire most about Dusty Rhodes is his
heart. This is a guy who didn't

3213
03:43:24.639 --> 03:43:28.360
have to do what he did for
a twenty seven year old kid. Dusty

3214
03:43:28.479 --> 03:43:30.840
was already a legend. He didn't
need to do a program with an unknown

3215
03:43:30.879 --> 03:43:33.520
Steve Carino, but he did.
Not only did he do it, but

3216
03:43:33.600 --> 03:43:35.639
he made me look like a superstar. And I became an instant success with

3217
03:43:35.719 --> 03:43:39.440
the ECW fans. Why would they
put with the ECW fans in brackets?

3218
03:43:41.200 --> 03:43:43.920
Yeah, but I want you to
get the wrong idea by saying I was

3219
03:43:43.920 --> 03:43:46.440
an instant success. I was already
claiming to be the king of Old School,

3220
03:43:46.479 --> 03:43:52.239
but Dusty made the nickname a reality
for all the all for the purpose

3221
03:43:52.319 --> 03:43:56.920
of making someone. ECW didn't have
the money to pay Dusty what he deserved.

3222
03:43:56.200 --> 03:43:58.040
He did it because that is the
type of guy he is now.

3223
03:43:58.079 --> 03:44:01.959
He did it because he was broke. It's fine. In a few words,

3224
03:44:01.040 --> 03:44:05.440
Dusty Rhads made Steve Corino, There's
no doubt about it. Before dream

3225
03:44:05.479 --> 03:44:07.399
came to e CW, I was
a mid level heel that had just prematurely

3226
03:44:07.440 --> 03:44:11.200
finished a program with Taz and Tommy
Dreamer. I had heat. But to

3227
03:44:11.200 --> 03:44:13.760
the ECW fans, Tazz and Dreamer, we're not old school. They were

3228
03:44:13.799 --> 03:44:18.079
ECW born. But when Dusty came
to ECW, he legitimized my beliefs in

3229
03:44:18.120 --> 03:44:20.600
old school wrestling and put me at
the top of the card almost right away.

3230
03:44:20.920 --> 03:44:26.319
Steve Carreno would never have been either
the ECW World or NWA World Champion

3231
03:44:26.719 --> 03:44:28.959
without Dusty Rhodes. And just quickly, while we're on the point, here's

3232
03:44:30.200 --> 03:44:33.040
Steve in that aforementioned our video shoot, just talking about the beginnings of the

3233
03:44:33.079 --> 03:44:37.040
program with Dusty. It was easy
working with us, Oh my goodness.

3234
03:44:37.200 --> 03:44:43.200
Oh. The first time was in
Atlanta, and uh, you know how

3235
03:44:43.719 --> 03:44:46.200
we always called Dream or the Dream
all right, the Dreamer comes to me

3236
03:44:46.239 --> 03:44:48.680
and goes, I go, what
am I doing tonight? He goes,

3237
03:44:48.799 --> 03:44:50.760
oh, you're working with the dream
I go, great, door we work,

3238
03:44:50.920 --> 03:44:52.040
you know, we wrestling. Or
he goes, no, man,

3239
03:44:52.440 --> 03:44:58.559
you're working with the real dream,
you know. But Dusty, it was

3240
03:44:58.719 --> 03:45:01.280
like it was such an odd to
be in the ring with him every time.

3241
03:45:01.360 --> 03:45:03.120
It was just so much fun.
And you know, here's here's a

3242
03:45:03.159 --> 03:45:07.319
guy that you know, I had
watched since I was eight years old,

3243
03:45:07.520 --> 03:45:09.040
and now here I am in the
ring with him and you know, telling

3244
03:45:09.159 --> 03:45:11.360
it, saying all these bad things
to him. Like I was like,

3245
03:45:11.559 --> 03:45:15.760
like, I was totally blantern here
I am. Now I'm acting as if

3246
03:45:15.760 --> 03:45:18.639
I'm one of my heroes wrestling one
of my heroes. You know, it

3247
03:45:18.799 --> 03:45:20.840
was dream come true. You actually
got the penimities you know you're in Yeah.

3248
03:45:22.079 --> 03:45:24.440
Yeah, I was so against it. I mean it was. It

3249
03:45:24.559 --> 03:45:28.559
was to the point where when they
told me that, you know, Paul

3250
03:45:28.600 --> 03:45:33.200
told me it was Dusty's idea that, but uh, when we did it,

3251
03:45:33.319 --> 03:45:35.280
I was just like when they told
me, I was like, no,

3252
03:45:35.559 --> 03:45:39.479
can't be. It can't be.
You know this this you know it's

3253
03:45:39.559 --> 03:45:41.440
not right. I don't I don't
need to beat him. You know,

3254
03:45:41.600 --> 03:45:45.120
just being in the ring with him
was good enough. But you know he's

3255
03:45:45.159 --> 03:45:48.879
like, no kid is And I
remember him going, He's like, no

3256
03:45:48.079 --> 03:45:50.840
color, you don't get any color. He goes, I'll get it for

3257
03:45:50.879 --> 03:45:54.280
you. I said, okay.
I had a big cut on my head

3258
03:45:54.280 --> 03:45:58.280
from like, you know, a
week before first shot he took. I

3259
03:45:58.360 --> 03:46:01.559
saw the knuckle come out and when
big out, oh, and you know

3260
03:46:01.639 --> 03:46:05.920
he gave that little laugh and it
has some bloods coming down my face.

3261
03:46:05.920 --> 03:46:09.639
I'm like, ow so uh but
yeah, it was you know, the

3262
03:46:09.719 --> 03:46:13.000
memory, it was just, yeah, I felt like I did something right

3263
03:46:13.079 --> 03:46:15.879
that Dusty was like, okay,
I'm gonna put him over. What actually

3264
03:46:16.280 --> 03:46:18.639
changing your gimmick and you started doing
more of a hard cut, hardcore style,

3265
03:46:20.280 --> 03:46:24.959
you know, doing your matches and
stuff. It was just, you

3266
03:46:24.040 --> 03:46:28.280
know, the first time I blend
the match was with Dusty and Fort Lauderdale,

3267
03:46:28.319 --> 03:46:35.200
then every once in a while on
the house shows, and then it

3268
03:46:35.319 --> 03:46:39.200
was living Dangerously. Paul wanted me
to uh, you know, we did.

3269
03:46:39.479 --> 03:46:43.479
We actually did Asbury Park the week
before. It was gonna be a

3270
03:46:43.520 --> 03:46:45.719
tape for the week after. So
it's funny if you watch the thing.

3271
03:46:45.920 --> 03:46:48.120
Uh, not to give away what
goes on. I had my arm tape,

3272
03:46:48.200 --> 03:46:50.760
my head taped, and I was
wrestling New Jack. Then I wrestled

3273
03:46:50.760 --> 03:46:54.120
the arena the next night like with
nothing on. But it was like,

3274
03:46:54.200 --> 03:46:56.239
you know, I had to get
color for Dusty, and then uh,

3275
03:46:58.680 --> 03:47:03.479
in Saint Louis, we did like
an eat and I had just got a

3276
03:47:03.639 --> 03:47:07.600
major color that night, and uh, I think Paul's like, oh my

3277
03:47:07.680 --> 03:47:09.440
god, this guy bleeds, you
know, just like they did, you

3278
03:47:09.520 --> 03:47:13.799
know, just like Flair and Tommy
Rochus too, and I didn't know it

3279
03:47:13.879 --> 03:47:16.360
was any special talent. But you
know the thing with Tajery Man, I

3280
03:47:16.600 --> 03:47:20.760
bled buckets with Tijerry and then on
the house shows and it was like people

3281
03:47:20.799 --> 03:47:24.040
were starting to get into it and
it was like, oh my goodness.

3282
03:47:24.520 --> 03:47:26.360
And then you know, the big
one was with Cherry Lynn where I wrote

3283
03:47:26.440 --> 03:47:31.760
die on his chest. Yeah,
that was I think a heat waved two

3284
03:47:31.760 --> 03:47:35.040
thousand things where he's bleeding so much. And then I remember that. Do

3285
03:47:35.079 --> 03:47:37.319
you remember that? I remember to
die in his chest with Queno's blood.

3286
03:47:37.600 --> 03:47:41.440
But it all started here living Dangerously
two thousands. He told it there.

3287
03:47:41.479 --> 03:47:43.639
It was the first time he got
colored for a dusty hear, that's crazy.

3288
03:47:43.760 --> 03:47:46.719
That became his calling card for the
rest of his ECW career. But

3289
03:47:48.159 --> 03:47:50.559
that's what I was to resume,
Uh, tom I dreamer of the cool

3290
03:47:50.639 --> 03:47:54.840
guy. Not only did he show
me a lot of respect when I was

3291
03:47:54.879 --> 03:47:58.000
there, but I have a lot
of respect for him, and they really

3292
03:47:58.079 --> 03:48:01.239
took time to hone his left.
A lot of people don't realize just how

3293
03:48:01.319 --> 03:48:05.079
much of ethid w with Tommy.
He had his heart and soul in that

3294
03:48:05.239 --> 03:48:09.079
thing, which is why I booked
him a few times with tv W.

3295
03:48:09.719 --> 03:48:13.959
So anyway, I was still running
Turnbuckle at the time, while still running

3296
03:48:13.959 --> 03:48:18.559
the Turnbuckles at the time, still
trying to take independent bookings, and shortly

3297
03:48:18.680 --> 03:48:22.520
after eth W Jerry Lawler is book
an agent. And that's uh, that's

3298
03:48:22.639 --> 03:48:26.280
that's what he said. That's what
he said. That's what he is.

3299
03:48:26.360 --> 03:48:33.840
People say, oh, he's just
a guy. Brian Michael Bryan came came

3300
03:48:33.879 --> 03:48:39.639
to Nashville when Lawla and I did
an independent date for the first time where

3301
03:48:39.680 --> 03:48:43.159
we were we actually refered each other. The King introduced me to mic and

3302
03:48:43.239 --> 03:48:46.000
right away he said, let me
handle this. Then that time might have

3303
03:48:46.079 --> 03:48:50.840
been my agent, and we've made
a lot of money together. He's a

3304
03:48:50.959 --> 03:48:56.079
hardcore guy and that he knows how
to negotiate. Because of that, everybody

3305
03:48:56.159 --> 03:48:58.959
who does bides with him. No, doesn't like him on both occasion.

3306
03:49:01.280 --> 03:49:05.000
By the bottom line, if he
gets the job done, they don't like

3307
03:49:05.079 --> 03:49:07.479
it because they think it's just the
old school and if it should be dealing

3308
03:49:07.559 --> 03:49:11.120
directly with me. But I'll deal
with my heart instead of my wallet.

3309
03:49:11.479 --> 03:49:18.760
Michael deals with the wallet. Yes, that's true. He's been a great

3310
03:49:18.760 --> 03:49:22.040
effort and we've come to be good
friend. Part of the problem family promoted

3311
03:49:22.319 --> 03:49:24.840
Wait a minute, as another quote, who's that. Oh, this is

3312
03:49:24.879 --> 03:49:28.399
Michael O'Brien. This is the agent
du jour at the time he wrote the

3313
03:49:28.440 --> 03:49:31.520
book. Part of the problem this
agent says, some of these promoters have

3314
03:49:31.600 --> 03:49:35.600
with me is they don't understand that
the fee can change depending on where the

3315
03:49:35.639 --> 03:49:37.200
show is, what type of match
it is, and who Dusty's wrestling.

3316
03:49:37.200 --> 03:49:41.360
For example, promoter in Carolinas or
Florida is going to pay more if he's

3317
03:49:41.399 --> 03:49:43.600
working with Terry Funker Tully Blanchard than
let's say a promoter in Wisconsin were does

3318
03:49:43.680 --> 03:49:46.719
to be working with a local guy. Sometimes it depends on the economic situation

3319
03:49:46.799 --> 03:49:50.399
of the area too. Typically they
can pay a little more if their ticket

3320
03:49:50.440 --> 03:49:54.639
prices are higher because they can afford
to Okay, thanks Mike, good good

3321
03:49:54.959 --> 03:49:58.440
story. Meanwhile, Tom mashed off
for eth w and they were getting ready

3322
03:49:58.440 --> 03:50:01.079
to fall their camp. There were
a lot of guys, I'm not getting

3323
03:50:01.120 --> 03:50:05.040
paid, not getting checks. The
bitching and complain of PAULI had that old

3324
03:50:05.079 --> 03:50:07.920
school promoted the way of talking to
his guys when they said, I'm gonna

3325
03:50:09.000 --> 03:50:11.680
go in there tonight, I'm gonna
get my money. I'm gonna tell that

3326
03:50:11.760 --> 03:50:13.719
son of a bitch that I'm through
and it's all over. And they'd go

3327
03:50:13.840 --> 03:50:16.559
in and have a meeting, and
by the time they finished talking with PAULI,

3328
03:50:16.600 --> 03:50:20.159
they were ready to knock down a
wall. And that's the way the

3329
03:50:20.239 --> 03:50:22.920
old promoters were. You're ready to
quit. I'm leaving. I hate the

3330
03:50:24.079 --> 03:50:26.399
territory, the money ain't there,
and they would be leaving one foot out

3331
03:50:26.440 --> 03:50:30.639
the door, but that old fucking
mentality talks them into stay. And I

3332
03:50:30.719 --> 03:50:33.959
have a lot of respect for Paul. He was a guy who when I

3333
03:50:33.079 --> 03:50:37.159
was in charge of Jim Crockett promotion
than TBF. Oh he was in he

3334
03:50:37.319 --> 03:50:39.920
was. Did you know that Esse
Rose was in charge of TBS. Yeah,

3335
03:50:39.920 --> 03:50:43.000
I had the book, but that's
not quite the same. He's literally

3336
03:50:43.200 --> 03:50:46.079
it's like, no, Dusty,
you really weren't in charge of TBS at

3337
03:50:46.120 --> 03:50:48.000
all. Like you know, there
are plenty of people in charge of TBS.

3338
03:50:48.120 --> 03:50:52.399
You were a subsidiary of course,
or not even really you were the

3339
03:50:52.680 --> 03:50:58.879
Dusty Rhodes was in charge of TBS. Did I'm gonna charge of TBF,

3340
03:50:58.959 --> 03:51:03.360
baby? I am TBF daddy.
That's what it is. Turnbuckle Broadcasting the

3341
03:51:03.440 --> 03:51:09.799
baby. He always came to the
production meetings. I never ran him up

3342
03:51:09.799 --> 03:51:13.639
because he was always there involved,
but it took mental notes. It was

3343
03:51:13.760 --> 03:51:18.600
kind of like he went to school
and got paid to go by WSW and

3344
03:51:18.719 --> 03:51:20.920
as we know, back then,
they threw around money like it was fucking

3345
03:51:22.040 --> 03:51:26.040
chocolate barb that a Hershey convention in
Hershey, Pennsylvania. He said it.

3346
03:51:26.559 --> 03:51:31.920
They were throwing Hershey bob like it
was my fucking home Hershey convention in Hershey,

3347
03:51:31.000 --> 03:51:37.559
Pennsylvania. Not just a Hershey convention, no, but at Hershey at

3348
03:51:37.639 --> 03:51:41.280
Hershey headquarters. Daddy in fucking Hershey, Pennsylvania. Up my Hershey Daddy.

3349
03:51:43.319 --> 03:51:46.360
If a W with a good time
and it with the time, that helped

3350
03:51:46.399 --> 03:51:50.079
me out a lot and made me
appreciate how people really respect to the industry.

3351
03:51:50.559 --> 03:51:54.200
If at W with a good thing, I made a lot of money

3352
03:51:54.239 --> 03:51:58.559
on the it claimed to be WR
game. They were some good time there.

3353
03:51:58.879 --> 03:52:01.479
I enjoyed working with old guy that
eth W. Every single one of

3354
03:52:01.559 --> 03:52:07.399
them put his heart and sol and
life on the line really literally every night.

3355
03:52:07.280 --> 03:52:11.120
I got to see a lot of
guys, a lot of guys while

3356
03:52:11.120 --> 03:52:15.200
I was there. THEE and them
performative best they could, and then they

3357
03:52:15.319 --> 03:52:18.120
took it theory if Daddy, they
were all piffed at Paulie at the start

3358
03:52:18.159 --> 03:52:20.680
of the night, and they rallied
around him at the end of the night.

3359
03:52:22.000 --> 03:52:24.600
If at W with a great experience
for me at a time when I

3360
03:52:24.680 --> 03:52:28.280
really needed to get back up from
that fall from grief or whatever you call

3361
03:52:28.360 --> 03:52:31.879
it. But I never thought being
me a Marchan dream and that was really

3362
03:52:31.959 --> 03:52:35.840
cool, daddy. So this run
actually meant a lot to Dusty, all

3363
03:52:35.920 --> 03:52:39.280
right, pretty wild to think about, but that was the circumstance he found

3364
03:52:39.319 --> 03:52:41.079
himself in. And here he is
in an r video shoot interview, which

3365
03:52:41.120 --> 03:52:45.440
is probably only made possible as well
by the fact that he was aligned with

3366
03:52:45.479 --> 03:52:50.520
paul and of course our video had
strong relationships with ECW. Time to sit.

3367
03:52:50.600 --> 03:52:54.440
It's only time. Dusty did do
another shoot with him Gabes of Bolsky

3368
03:52:54.479 --> 03:52:56.760
one time, but it wasn't really
the same. So it's the only shoot

3369
03:52:56.799 --> 03:53:01.120
really as the Dusty is done,
and he talked a lot about ECW in

3370
03:53:01.200 --> 03:53:03.680
it because that's where his heads out
at the moment. So here's a couple

3371
03:53:03.760 --> 03:53:07.440
of a couple of pieces of what
ECW meant to Dusty. Kind of echoing

3372
03:53:07.479 --> 03:53:09.399
what he wrote in this book,
the things that the kids do at ECW

3373
03:53:09.680 --> 03:53:16.000
or its close to the old territory, the old time respect, the old

3374
03:53:16.079 --> 03:53:22.559
time workers that we had only with
new so quick and fast into some unbelievable

3375
03:53:22.559 --> 03:53:28.319
stuff at ECW. So uh uh
Yeah, it's changed a lot, you

3376
03:53:28.399 --> 03:53:33.719
know. And I see a company
that is uh that is struggled at times,

3377
03:53:33.799 --> 03:53:39.360
and not struggling, but competed against
these two guys in the SECW that's

3378
03:53:39.399 --> 03:53:45.200
pay. And after meeting the guys
the other night in the dressing room,

3379
03:53:45.319 --> 03:53:48.559
it was the best I had felt
in many years. Whether it was sincere

3380
03:53:48.600 --> 03:53:50.920
or not, I think most of
them were. It was a tremendous amount

3381
03:53:50.920 --> 03:53:54.440
of respect. I felt the best
I had felt in years about this business,

3382
03:53:54.920 --> 03:53:56.319
being with these kids that just wanted
to be around them. I didn't

3383
03:53:56.319 --> 03:53:58.520
want to work with I wanted to
teach him. I wanted to talk to

3384
03:53:58.600 --> 03:54:03.280
him about I wanted to give them
some of them, them dusty finishes and

3385
03:54:03.360 --> 03:54:05.959
see what they thought about them without
doing them not. I didn't want to

3386
03:54:05.000 --> 03:54:07.840
book, I didn't want to do
nothing. I wanted I seen lights who

3387
03:54:07.879 --> 03:54:11.600
they should have been. I seen, I seen a vision of putting the

3388
03:54:11.680 --> 03:54:15.360
camera over here and doing a different
shot. I've seen something that could really

3389
03:54:15.879 --> 03:54:18.600
beat balls out because I've been Pauli's
been with me and I and I've been

3390
03:54:18.639 --> 03:54:22.719
with him in his heart for a
long time and respect he has to fight

3391
03:54:22.840 --> 03:54:26.920
these these big companies and say them
to get to this point. He has

3392
03:54:26.959 --> 03:54:31.200
an opportunity, I think to take
it to another level. And I wouldn't

3393
03:54:31.360 --> 03:54:35.520
take the true might be a part
of it, and uh, just in

3394
03:54:35.600 --> 03:54:39.360
case, you know, occasionally in
the ring, you know what I mean.

3395
03:54:39.959 --> 03:54:41.799
As I told him the other night, and I told h a couple

3396
03:54:41.840 --> 03:54:46.600
of kids and a Tommy Dreamer kid, I don't want to come here and

3397
03:54:46.120 --> 03:54:50.799
give the bony cab on the dusty
roads in the seventies and eighties people that

3398
03:54:50.840 --> 03:54:54.840
were that were following the people that
were the godfather. Yeah, maybe,

3399
03:54:54.000 --> 03:54:58.159
but not. I do not want
to take any thunder from any of these

3400
03:54:58.239 --> 03:55:01.600
kids. That's where you work here, ask they work their ass off to

3401
03:55:01.719 --> 03:55:05.200
get to this point. So I
think the business is going to another level.

3402
03:55:05.520 --> 03:55:07.799
I think there'll be another company involved, whether it be Mine, whether

3403
03:55:07.799 --> 03:55:13.799
it be ECW, whether it be
j W B, or whatever the hell

3404
03:55:13.840 --> 03:55:16.639
it is. It's going to be
something else. Will happen. Two thousand

3405
03:55:16.959 --> 03:55:20.479
are taking to a little different level, and I think that's important. So

3406
03:55:20.120 --> 03:55:24.680
I think it's only good. I
think it's going to be because now we

3407
03:55:24.840 --> 03:55:28.559
understand you and me interviews like this. We understand now that it is sports

3408
03:55:28.680 --> 03:55:35.159
entertainment. These are great athletes doing
unbelievable things, unbelievable things, telling your

3409
03:55:35.239 --> 03:55:37.440
story and for two hours of this
story that I'm telling you, for two

3410
03:55:37.479 --> 03:55:41.120
hours, you're going to believe it
with all your heart. You go out

3411
03:55:41.159 --> 03:55:45.879
and fight and say that it's real, that really happened. I'm telling you

3412
03:55:45.920 --> 03:55:48.159
should have seen it. And now
our lady, your friend's going to talk

3413
03:55:48.159 --> 03:55:50.719
to you and saying, oh,
that's, you know, just entertainment everything.

3414
03:55:50.799 --> 03:55:52.680
But for that two hours, I
want to make you feel that this

3415
03:55:52.840 --> 03:55:56.319
is the most intense situation you ever
been in. That's the key to success

3416
03:55:56.520 --> 03:56:01.680
in this industry. If you lose
that complete, he won't be successful.

3417
03:56:03.200 --> 03:56:07.920
Amen to that. He did bring
that DCW a promotion that often could feature

3418
03:56:07.000 --> 03:56:09.879
things that were kind of a little
hokey and hard to believe in a little

3419
03:56:09.879 --> 03:56:13.399
contrived. Yes, some of the
spots a little bit dusty, came and

3420
03:56:13.479 --> 03:56:18.200
brought that that deeper residence, and
you can tell and the difference between kind

3421
03:56:18.200 --> 03:56:22.319
of the fan reaction to his segments
versus some others. You know, they

3422
03:56:22.319 --> 03:56:24.920
went crazy for just about everything on
ECW cards, But that stuff with Dusty

3423
03:56:26.040 --> 03:56:28.040
was kind of a reminder that,
like, I don't know, no matter

3424
03:56:28.079 --> 03:56:31.639
how against type these ECW fans are, they still fall for the same tricks

3425
03:56:33.159 --> 03:56:35.680
went done well, right right,
and Dusty knew how to do that even

3426
03:56:35.719 --> 03:56:37.760
at his advanced age. And as
we talked about, even on the Greed

3427
03:56:37.799 --> 03:56:41.200
Show, he was actually moving around
the ring pretty well. He wasn't really

3428
03:56:41.200 --> 03:56:43.360
as hobbled as you would think he
would be. No, no, he

3429
03:56:43.440 --> 03:56:46.799
was all right, Yeah, for
sure was now. In this interview,

3430
03:56:46.840 --> 03:56:50.319
he also talked a bit about what
he sees missing from ECW. He talks

3431
03:56:50.319 --> 03:56:54.079
about slowing down, slowing down,
and he talked about how at the time

3432
03:56:54.159 --> 03:56:58.920
Bubba Ray Dudley, who was power
bombing people through tables like Fabulous Mula May

3433
03:56:58.000 --> 03:57:03.479
Young and stuff, and they were
taking out the ladies. You know how

3434
03:57:03.920 --> 03:57:07.520
sort of like it would offend him
if after doing something so intense to someone

3435
03:57:07.559 --> 03:57:13.520
like Mulla Baba just Mulla just got
up from going through the table and then

3436
03:57:13.760 --> 03:57:16.760
he body slammed her again, and
just how gatuitous that would be because the

3437
03:57:16.159 --> 03:57:18.600
power bomp through the table was enough. You don't have to do something after

3438
03:57:18.719 --> 03:57:22.079
that, right, And that's what
he saw as he talks about here and

3439
03:57:22.159 --> 03:57:26.159
observing ECW at the time, Mula, what if what if he would have

3440
03:57:26.200 --> 03:57:28.440
wretched down, I would have I
would have gone on a plane and when

3441
03:57:28.479 --> 03:57:31.200
to get out of him. If
he would have wretched down and picture up

3442
03:57:31.239 --> 03:57:35.159
and slammed her, he didn't,
you know what I mean? But she

3443
03:57:35.239 --> 03:57:39.639
went down. That was it the
shot, That was it, you know

3444
03:57:39.680 --> 03:57:43.079
what I mean? These kids the
other night through two tables to the floor

3445
03:57:43.799 --> 03:57:46.719
right away, the bayface is picking
them up, dragging them back in doing

3446
03:57:46.760 --> 03:57:50.719
the second one. So at home, me going, oh so what you

3447
03:57:50.799 --> 03:57:56.159
know it's like Saboo will say,
it's if you're hurting, God, damn,

3448
03:57:56.159 --> 03:57:58.639
you're hurting. I don't want the
bay face around me if I'm hurt.

3449
03:58:01.840 --> 03:58:05.639
So you can slow down and still
go fast. And if that if

3450
03:58:05.719 --> 03:58:09.079
that was the part to learn of. Now that I see, that's a

3451
03:58:09.079 --> 03:58:15.000
little bit different. It's to slow
down, you have to to have the

3452
03:58:15.120 --> 03:58:22.479
babyface we talked about. You have
to have the baby face that contradicts the

3453
03:58:22.600 --> 03:58:26.280
bad. So the kids at home
are seeing all this stuff. You have

3454
03:58:26.399 --> 03:58:28.520
to have the one guy, whether
the net people hate him or not,

3455
03:58:28.600 --> 03:58:31.200
I call him. The net people
know the marks and it's morning marks whatever

3456
03:58:31.200 --> 03:58:37.079
we call them. What who,
that's honky, that's corny. You've got

3457
03:58:37.159 --> 03:58:41.879
to have that one guy that says
he's wrong and I'm right, America or

3458
03:58:41.920 --> 03:58:45.159
whatever it is. You have to
I don't give a show what it is

3459
03:58:45.920 --> 03:58:50.200
in the movies or whatever, So
we need to do that. But this

3460
03:58:50.399 --> 03:58:52.920
is the most exciting time that I've
seen in our industry right now. So

3461
03:58:54.600 --> 03:58:58.399
it's cool. Sounds like he's calling
out the John Cena dynamic of a few

3462
03:58:58.440 --> 03:59:03.040
years down the road. Yeah,
it does does. Indeed, Tommy Dreamer

3463
03:59:03.159 --> 03:59:05.440
kind of fit that role in ECW
word Like sometimes he would be so like

3464
03:59:07.600 --> 03:59:11.399
so emotional and over the top about
ECW that it was kind of corny.

3465
03:59:11.559 --> 03:59:18.040
But he was that guy that like
as outlandish and outlaw like as everybody else

3466
03:59:18.239 --> 03:59:22.440
was, he would kind of stand
there and like say no, that this

3467
03:59:22.520 --> 03:59:24.840
isn't the right thing. Like I
mean, it's not like he wouldn't use

3468
03:59:24.879 --> 03:59:28.600
weapons and stuff, but like he
wouldn't be the first to use weapons.

3469
03:59:28.120 --> 03:59:31.520
He wouldn't be the first to do
something like you know, inhumane. He

3470
03:59:31.559 --> 03:59:35.879
he wouldn't beat up women like all
the heels did and right, and so

3471
03:59:35.000 --> 03:59:39.000
yeah, I think Dusty really puts
his finger on something significant there that even

3472
03:59:39.120 --> 03:59:43.360
was alive and as unconventional promotion as
ECW. No matter what, you have

3473
03:59:43.520 --> 03:59:48.959
to have a guy who is standing
up for traditional values in his own way,

3474
03:59:50.040 --> 03:59:52.239
and I think Cody did that brilliant
sure, and it does that brilliantly.

3475
03:59:52.399 --> 03:59:54.719
Yeah. Yeah, you know,
he's a guy that if you just

3476
03:59:54.799 --> 03:59:58.680
like wrote down on paper that his
characteristics, you think he'd get booted out

3477
03:59:58.680 --> 04:00:03.200
of every bilding he was in,
like John Cena right, right. But

3478
04:00:03.319 --> 04:00:05.559
it's probably in no small part plugging
into the insight that we hear his own

3479
04:00:05.600 --> 04:00:09.120
father expressing there in that interview all
these years ago, that he can appreciate

3480
04:00:09.159 --> 04:00:13.440
how to thread that needle more carefully
to where he doesn't get wholeheartedly rejected,

3481
04:00:13.440 --> 04:00:15.319
at least not by the w B
fans. He had to deal with that

3482
04:00:15.719 --> 04:00:18.000
at the tail end of AW,
and so did Tommy Dreamer. I mean,

3483
04:00:18.120 --> 04:00:20.840
I don't remember Dreamer every being out
right booed, but fans would kind

3484
04:00:20.879 --> 04:00:24.760
of be subdued and kind of like
ambivalent towards him sometimes because he wasn't out

3485
04:00:24.760 --> 04:00:28.319
there to do the craziest thing of
the night necessarily, and he was out

3486
04:00:28.319 --> 04:00:31.479
there kind of taking a stand for
something that they thought was kind of hokey,

3487
04:00:31.559 --> 04:00:35.920
and they would much much rather the
storylines be much more sort of aggressive

3488
04:00:35.959 --> 04:00:39.000
and bloodthirsty and kind of violent.
But that's that. So in the room

3489
04:00:39.040 --> 04:00:41.959
as the shooting, interview is going
on, and we know this because at

3490
04:00:41.000 --> 04:00:45.239
one point you hear like a door
open in the background, and he tells

3491
04:00:45.440 --> 04:00:48.079
Rob Einstein and company that are interviewing
him that it's his son, Cody,

3492
04:00:48.200 --> 04:00:50.479
or his youngest coming into the room. They don't see him, but you

3493
04:00:50.559 --> 04:00:56.000
hear him. And the truth is
that, you know, Dusty was trying

3494
04:00:56.040 --> 04:01:00.680
to latch onto something at the time
to make ends meet. And it wasn't,

3495
04:01:00.760 --> 04:01:03.520
you know, the Dustin version of
the family. It was the Cody

3496
04:01:03.600 --> 04:01:07.079
generation right that Dusty was tending to. That was his flock at this particular

3497
04:01:07.120 --> 04:01:11.200
point in time. And all those
years later, when Cody's getting set to

3498
04:01:11.200 --> 04:01:16.280
wrestle Roman Reigns at WrestleMania for the
ww World title, he has an in

3499
04:01:16.440 --> 04:01:20.079
ring promo battle with Paul Hayman,
and it all kind of comes full circle.

3500
04:01:22.040 --> 04:01:26.920
But if we're gonna pull back the
curtain, ear might as well pull

3501
04:01:26.959 --> 04:01:31.639
it back for everyone here in attendance
tonight, might as well pull it back

3502
04:01:31.879 --> 04:01:35.399
for everybody watching at home. I
want to tell a story that should be

3503
04:01:35.559 --> 04:01:37.559
told, that should have been told
a long time ago. The year was

3504
04:01:37.680 --> 04:01:46.959
two thousand, but till in my
family had dried up a bit. Hard

3505
04:01:46.079 --> 04:01:54.280
times became more than just the promo. Simply put, my family went broke

3506
04:01:54.799 --> 04:02:00.360
one hundred dollars in a WAKOVI at
checking account for all of us, if

3507
04:02:00.399 --> 04:02:03.239
you need a visual aid for it. My dad doing local car commercials and

3508
04:02:03.399 --> 04:02:22.440
not for the money, just so
that he could keep the car. But

3509
04:02:22.879 --> 04:02:33.239
then he got a phone call.
You called him, You told him a

3510
04:02:33.360 --> 04:02:37.360
CW was in town. You told
him that Steve Carrino was going to talk

3511
04:02:37.399 --> 04:02:43.239
a little smack about him, and
that if he would just agree to appear

3512
04:02:43.319 --> 04:02:46.719
on camera, if Dusty Rhodes would
be on e CW, you would pay

3513
04:02:46.840 --> 04:02:58.000
him, and you would pay him
well. You kept your word. In

3514
04:02:58.079 --> 04:03:07.520
addition to that, we sorely needed
ECW gave my father his confidence back,

3515
04:03:07.719 --> 04:03:11.360
and I can never ever repay you
for that, Thank you very much.

3516
04:03:15.159 --> 04:03:20.959
So that's what we're seeing here,
That's what we're seeing Dusty getting his confidence

3517
04:03:20.040 --> 04:03:26.479
back, says in his book,
does Dusty Rhodes. Paul Hayman, who

3518
04:03:26.520 --> 04:03:28.399
said he wanted a comment but couldn't
officially because he didn't want to get into

3519
04:03:28.440 --> 04:03:33.120
trouble with Vince at the time,
did write in an email this is not

3520
04:03:33.319 --> 04:03:37.000
Dusty talking, but in fact,
author Scott Williams in the notes at the

3521
04:03:37.079 --> 04:03:39.760
end of the book, I got
this quote from Paul the email. I

3522
04:03:39.799 --> 04:03:43.200
would love to tell the story of
how Dusty gave me a huge, huge,

3523
04:03:43.319 --> 04:03:46.600
huge break in WCW and then was
removed as booker and lead writer.

3524
04:03:48.680 --> 04:03:52.319
Everyone turned their back on him,
but I refused to at starkade because he

3525
04:03:52.360 --> 04:03:54.680
had given me the chance of a
lifetime and upset a lot of people by

3526
04:03:54.719 --> 04:03:58.360
doing it. I would be happy
to tie that into his ECW ten yours.

3527
04:03:58.399 --> 04:04:01.239
I truly believe in my heart I
owed him, and even though bringing

3528
04:04:01.319 --> 04:04:05.600
him in TCW was repaying him quote
unquote, he contributed more to ECW than

3529
04:04:05.680 --> 04:04:09.760
we could ever compensate him for.
Steve Greanno went on after this program to

3530
04:04:09.799 --> 04:04:13.719
win the ECW World Title in December
of two thousand and then, of course,

3531
04:04:13.600 --> 04:04:18.200
we turned the calendar to the final
year of ECW's existence. They had

3532
04:04:18.200 --> 04:04:22.600
a Guiltiest Charge to pay per view
in January and then per the schedule that

3533
04:04:22.600 --> 04:04:28.000
had been established, everybody was looking
forward to another Living Dangerously after this one

3534
04:04:28.000 --> 04:04:31.840
really and in around March of two
thousand and one, but that was not

3535
04:04:31.959 --> 04:04:35.040
to be. Shout out to the
Homie Rudy, who wrote to us to

3536
04:04:35.120 --> 04:04:41.239
point out that this still exists on
the old archived version of IGN dot com,

3537
04:04:41.239 --> 04:04:45.760
which used to cover pro wrestling.
This article dated March tenth, two

3538
04:04:45.760 --> 04:04:50.799
thousand and one, title ECW Living
Dangerously pay per View update. After weeks

3539
04:04:50.799 --> 04:04:56.239
of wondering and speculation, the inevitable
finally occurred. Today. ECW officially canceled

3540
04:04:56.239 --> 04:05:01.559
this weekend's Living Dangerously pay per view. Shortly after their last pay per view

3541
04:05:01.600 --> 04:05:03.879
generally force Guilties charged, DCW took
some time off in hopes of coming back

3542
04:05:03.920 --> 04:05:07.799
strong for Living Dangerously in March.
During that time, several LECW stars began

3543
04:05:07.879 --> 04:05:11.760
negotiating with the WWF and WCW.
Just Incredible Rhino, Jerry Lynn and Yo

3544
04:05:11.799 --> 04:05:16.239
Show to Jerry have recently come to
terms with the WWF. In the meantime,

3545
04:05:16.239 --> 04:05:20.600
Easy Money, Jason b who of
course went on to be Jason jett

3546
04:05:20.680 --> 04:05:24.559
On Greed that we talked about,
and Johnny Swinger have both appeared on ww

3547
04:05:24.680 --> 04:05:28.120
television just bedding in the Cruiserweight Tag
Team Tournament. Coming into this week,

3548
04:05:28.159 --> 04:05:33.200
the event had no matches and no
venue, therefore no sole tickets. Jeez,

3549
04:05:33.239 --> 04:05:35.399
it came even more apparent that the
pay per view would not be taking

3550
04:05:35.440 --> 04:05:46.200
place when, of course, boss
uh, this happened. Hello Money,

3551
04:05:46.200 --> 04:05:52.239
and welcome to the Wall. We're
here in easy I'm Jim Robson, barely

3552
04:05:52.559 --> 04:05:56.479
know who you are, but tell
me Warria. Now I'm joined by Wall,

3553
04:05:56.159 --> 04:06:05.479
joined by Wall, I'm trying her. Um. Jerry, the King

3554
04:06:05.600 --> 04:06:09.040
Lawler, to his credit, walked
down right alongside with her. But where

3555
04:06:09.079 --> 04:06:13.959
there's chaos, j R. There
is opportunity. And tonight, just like

3556
04:06:15.120 --> 04:06:18.920
PNN threw off ec W for the
w w S, the King is gone.

3557
04:06:20.120 --> 04:06:24.079
Finish Chair, Chris Paul E turn
to E Chris bore back Street.

3558
04:06:28.520 --> 04:06:33.000
Do you remember Paul Hayman the feeling
out of nowhere is the raw colored guy?

3559
04:06:33.920 --> 04:06:37.600
Yes, And I didn't have any
clue who the fuck you never saw

3560
04:06:37.680 --> 04:06:41.120
him before, That's amazing. I
really I didn't. I didn't. It

3561
04:06:41.159 --> 04:06:45.920
took me. I don't remember.
I'm trying to remember when I realized that.

3562
04:06:46.479 --> 04:06:52.760
I when I realized Paul E.
Paul Hayman was Polly Dangerously. I

3563
04:06:52.920 --> 04:06:58.680
don't recall when I made that connection. I really don't remember. There he

3564
04:06:58.920 --> 04:07:01.559
was, and people in ECW did
not know he was going to be there.

3565
04:07:01.600 --> 04:07:05.000
Most people did not. Most people, when you ask them years later,

3566
04:07:05.239 --> 04:07:09.799
when they knew ECW was truly done
was when they watched Raw on this

3567
04:07:09.879 --> 04:07:15.920
Monday night and saw Paul Hayman shouldered
to shoulder with JR. Water disgrace,

3568
04:07:16.159 --> 04:07:20.079
unbelievable. So this is with they
living dangerously. If we're going to talk

3569
04:07:20.120 --> 04:07:26.200
about that show this week on the
calendar, not anymore, Jesus. And

3570
04:07:26.319 --> 04:07:30.879
it's been you know, shorthand over
the years to talk about how people drank

3571
04:07:30.920 --> 04:07:33.799
the poly kool aid, how he
would give these incredible speeches backstages depicted and

3572
04:07:33.879 --> 04:07:37.040
beyond the mat backstage at the first
DCW pay per view, barely legal,

3573
04:07:37.319 --> 04:07:41.360
that really rallied these troops without,
you know, instead of being able to

3574
04:07:41.399 --> 04:07:43.680
pay them substantial amounts of money,
giving them cause giving them reason to think

3575
04:07:43.959 --> 04:07:48.200
that by going out there and really
killing themselves for relatively little money, that

3576
04:07:48.280 --> 04:07:50.479
they were contributing to some greater cause. They were pushing in some greater direction

3577
04:07:52.040 --> 04:07:56.040
for themselves and for the company.
And one thing I found interesting from the

3578
04:07:56.079 --> 04:08:00.239
aforementioned Danny during shoot interview is he
kind of put it more. It's more

3579
04:08:00.280 --> 04:08:03.079
simply than that you can say what
you want about drinking the kool aid as

3580
04:08:03.079 --> 04:08:07.319
an explanation for a guy that can
be as shifty as Paul Hayman getting people

3581
04:08:07.360 --> 04:08:11.440
to still sort of work for him
and be loyal to him. This is

3582
04:08:11.479 --> 04:08:13.680
how ye Denny Doorin describes the whole
kool Aid thing. And I thought it

3583
04:08:13.719 --> 04:08:18.879
was It was interesting. What point
did you realize ucws and serious jeopardy.

3584
04:08:20.239 --> 04:08:24.760
We should have realized it when the
checks are bouncing, but we were all

3585
04:08:24.879 --> 04:08:26.280
drinking the kool aid. But I
mean, you know what, let me

3586
04:08:26.360 --> 04:08:28.760
break down the myth of the fucking
kool aid real quick. You know what

3587
04:08:28.799 --> 04:08:31.520
I mean? The kool Aid wasn't
Paul in his bullshit speech, So I

3588
04:08:31.559 --> 04:08:35.920
said, there's only one the kool
aid was, there's two, fucking there's

3589
04:08:35.959 --> 04:08:39.680
three companies, and everybody wanted to
work somewhere. The kool aid was we

3590
04:08:39.799 --> 04:08:43.239
believed in three letters called DCW and
we didn't give a fuck and anybody else,

3591
04:08:43.280 --> 04:08:46.959
I don't give a fuck what they
say. Young kids on our level

3592
04:08:46.000 --> 04:08:50.000
in their early twenties working for a
company that's on TV, and we could

3593
04:08:50.040 --> 04:08:52.680
have done the same fucking thing.
It wasn't because we were pollie fucking guys

3594
04:08:52.719 --> 04:08:56.280
and we were going to go fucking
burn ourselves or David koresh ourselves somewhere.

3595
04:08:56.520 --> 04:09:00.719
We're following as mad scientists. It's
a bunch of bullshit. We wanted to

3596
04:09:00.760 --> 04:09:03.760
be on TV week we were getting
over. We knew people wanted to come

3597
04:09:03.760 --> 04:09:05.680
here to work. We knew we
had a dream opportunity, and that's why

3598
04:09:05.760 --> 04:09:09.040
we did it. That's why we
worked for free. That's why we did

3599
04:09:09.079 --> 04:09:11.840
all this ship. It wasn't because
we were following the mad scientists are drinking

3600
04:09:11.920 --> 04:09:15.280
is fucking cool and that's a crock
of ship. In fact, his fucking

3601
04:09:15.440 --> 04:09:18.319
this, I mean, he's so
called fucking he's a he's a creative genius.

3602
04:09:18.399 --> 04:09:20.399
But how many people did he write
for on the roster? Rob van

3603
04:09:20.479 --> 04:09:26.520
Dam, Rob van Dam, Rob
van Dam, you know, maybe maybe

3604
04:09:26.559 --> 04:09:28.719
one other guy but it was like, you know, the rest fucking was

3605
04:09:28.760 --> 04:09:31.360
handled by somebody else, and he
wrote all that ship and was taking care

3606
04:09:31.360 --> 04:09:33.600
of all that ship. I mean, he gets all those credit. The

3607
04:09:33.639 --> 04:09:37.479
guys, the internet guys want to
fucking kiss his ass for being a genius.

3608
04:09:37.719 --> 04:09:41.920
I think Paul pretty much. I
think I think Paul. To me,

3609
04:09:43.559 --> 04:09:46.000
think Paul was used as a vehicle
to get to where he wanted to

3610
04:09:46.040 --> 04:09:48.399
go anywhere. I don't think.
I don't think he cared about it as

3611
04:09:48.479 --> 04:09:52.680
much as he wants the fans to
think he did. And I think he

3612
04:09:52.879 --> 04:09:56.239
just needed, he wanted, He
wanted places he wanted to be and things

3613
04:09:56.280 --> 04:09:58.239
he wanted to do with his own
career. And I think that's that's where

3614
04:09:58.239 --> 04:10:01.799
it led. I think there's was
you know, it could have been saved.

3615
04:10:01.799 --> 04:10:03.879
They I think really was going to
be now, especially we got to

3616
04:10:03.920 --> 04:10:09.639
Poplar Bluff and the Sam Man PJ
do that big Ya thing that's a reference

3617
04:10:09.719 --> 04:10:13.280
to the final ECW House Show,
the final ECW show ever in populap Bluff,

3618
04:10:13.319 --> 04:10:15.879
Arkansas, I think it was.
And they did something in the ring

3619
04:10:16.000 --> 04:10:18.239
that told most of the locker room
that we're never going to be back here

3620
04:10:18.280 --> 04:10:20.959
again. I think Tommy Dreamer brought
out a big trash can full of beers

3621
04:10:20.959 --> 04:10:24.520
and they did like something that that
indicated we're not going to be back together

3622
04:10:24.840 --> 04:10:28.239
anytime soon. So there you have
it. Wow, right, he's just

3623
04:10:28.239 --> 04:10:30.520
saying, like, you know,
fuck the kool Aid. We were kids

3624
04:10:30.559 --> 04:10:33.559
in our twenties and we were on
television. We were over and we're not

3625
04:10:33.600 --> 04:10:35.840
going to work for either big two
guys. It's not a mystery. That's

3626
04:10:35.879 --> 04:10:39.520
why the kool Aid worked. It
wasn't kol Aid, it was fucking no

3627
04:10:39.600 --> 04:10:45.159
one else was going to give them
the access to pussy and exposure. ROCW

3628
04:10:45.360 --> 04:10:48.760
was going to considering their relative and
experience in the business, and most importantly,

3629
04:10:50.360 --> 04:10:52.879
we're talking about pay. Look,
Peydon, pussy is a wrestling thing.

3630
04:10:52.920 --> 04:10:56.200
It's a real thing. It explains
why so many of these guys worked

3631
04:10:56.200 --> 04:11:01.040
for so little all these years.
You never have to leave high school and

3632
04:11:01.079 --> 04:11:03.479
for people who aren't inclined to get
it quote unquote real job, that's a

3633
04:11:03.520 --> 04:11:05.479
fucking sweet setup. That's what they're
looking for. That's what all those sad

3634
04:11:05.559 --> 04:11:09.200
sacks in the Bigger, Faster,
Stronger documentary. You are looking for some

3635
04:11:09.399 --> 04:11:13.799
kind of way to make money without
having a work in terms of like work

3636
04:11:13.840 --> 04:11:18.959
where they're not on display all the
time and basically, you know, getting

3637
04:11:18.959 --> 04:11:24.040
women to drop to their knees.
Yep, that's right, hey, is

3638
04:11:24.040 --> 04:11:26.959
it just facts? It's not right
kool aid, it's just fuck like like

3639
04:11:26.079 --> 04:11:30.479
you said, anyone in that position
at that age where have done the same

3640
04:11:30.520 --> 04:11:33.280
thing they would have believed whenever they
had to believe to get access to h

3641
04:11:33.440 --> 04:11:37.280
what ECW forded you in terms of
opportunity in the business and and in the

3642
04:11:37.319 --> 04:11:43.120
fucking sheets and I don't read the
dirt sheets. And there you have it.

3643
04:11:43.159 --> 04:11:46.120
What do you think of that thesis
there that Paul Hayman was actually didn't

3644
04:11:46.120 --> 04:11:48.559
believe in ECW as much as he
would have had everybody believe, but was

3645
04:11:48.639 --> 04:11:52.520
kind of using it to orchestrate his
own career mode. I totally love it

3646
04:11:52.639 --> 04:11:56.840
so much. He does on shout
out ECW rip on TNN. But he's

3647
04:11:56.879 --> 04:12:01.079
smart enough to know people are gonna
look at this right as me betraying my

3648
04:12:01.440 --> 04:12:05.959
right right right. I mean,
I think I think, I think there's

3649
04:12:05.079 --> 04:12:11.479
there is certainly so much evidence that
he could have easily done that. I

3650
04:12:11.520 --> 04:12:13.920
don't know if he did or not, but I guess I should say this,

3651
04:12:13.000 --> 04:12:16.520
and I wouldn't. I would say
that it would not surprise me.

3652
04:12:16.879 --> 04:12:20.440
Yeah, if that was the case, if he was like, you know

3653
04:12:20.520 --> 04:12:24.639
what, I did this to make
a name for myself. I mean,

3654
04:12:24.760 --> 04:12:31.280
honestly, it's it's it makes the
most sense that he would do something like

3655
04:12:31.360 --> 04:12:33.600
that to make a name for himself
and get a job someplace else, especially

3656
04:12:33.639 --> 04:12:39.280
meaning consider how it wasn't really arm's
length his relationship with Vincent WWF over the

3657
04:12:39.360 --> 04:12:43.840
years that became very clear in retrospect. He was never really more than a

3658
04:12:43.840 --> 04:12:46.280
phone call away from Vince's office,
and Vince had use for ECW. He

3659
04:12:46.319 --> 04:12:50.200
had had talent that hearted season down
there, he sure did a place to

3660
04:12:50.239 --> 04:12:54.040
put guys or Kurt Angle before he
signed with them, was down at the

3661
04:12:54.120 --> 04:12:56.840
arena and he saw that fucking Sandy
and crucifixion and quit, remember that,

3662
04:12:58.879 --> 04:13:01.760
right, I remember that. I
think so many guys went down there.

3663
04:13:01.879 --> 04:13:03.639
Lawler was there and Cornette for a
split second when they were WWF, they

3664
04:13:03.639 --> 04:13:07.360
were working an angle you already mentioned, you know, the crossover raw.

3665
04:13:09.360 --> 04:13:11.760
They did a couple of those ninety
six and ninety seven. Yeah, I

3666
04:13:11.840 --> 04:13:16.680
mean, come on, and the
word always was and this is brought up

3667
04:13:16.680 --> 04:13:18.719
in Danny Doring's interview, and he
admits they never really thought about it until

3668
04:13:18.719 --> 04:13:24.000
asked in that way. But it
is true that as much as it's you

3669
04:13:24.040 --> 04:13:26.799
know, ECW and if you leave
your cellout, there was never the heat

3670
04:13:26.840 --> 04:13:30.200
on guys who went to WWF like
there was heat, and the guys who

3671
04:13:30.239 --> 04:13:33.239
went to WCW it was considered much
more of a what the fuck are you

3672
04:13:33.319 --> 04:13:37.639
doing? Are you serious? Confront
you in the locker room. I heard

3673
04:13:37.639 --> 04:13:39.000
you're going to WCW kind of thing. But when guys went to WWF,

3674
04:13:39.040 --> 04:13:41.879
they're just there was so much less
friction and there was so much less hard

3675
04:13:41.920 --> 04:13:46.280
feelings. It seemed like, at
least until the bitter end, or shortly

3676
04:13:46.319 --> 04:13:50.079
before the bitter en, when guys
like Raven left and Perry Saturn left,

3677
04:13:50.959 --> 04:13:54.159
and that's, you know, frankly, that's probably because Paul was dealing with

3678
04:13:54.280 --> 04:13:58.159
Vince as much more of a home
team funding source, right, someone he

3679
04:13:58.200 --> 04:14:03.799
could call situation yeah, yeah yeah, and somebody you know that would provide

3680
04:14:03.799 --> 04:14:07.920
an exit strategy. When ECW hit
the skids, Paul was like the ultimate,

3681
04:14:07.159 --> 04:14:11.239
you know, thinking ten steps ahead
kind of guy, to the point

3682
04:14:11.280 --> 04:14:13.520
where you know, like if you
read Todd Gordon's book. It's almost like

3683
04:14:13.639 --> 04:14:18.600
comical how even in the smallest stakes
situations, Paul would be gaming out like

3684
04:14:18.079 --> 04:14:20.559
twelve steps ahead what this guy was
going to do, and then in reaction,

3685
04:14:20.639 --> 04:14:24.159
I'm gonna do this, and then
he's going to do this. You

3686
04:14:24.239 --> 04:14:26.600
can see him thinking as far ahead
as yeah, well, when he ECW

3687
04:14:26.760 --> 04:14:31.239
does crasheah, I can always go
work for Vince. It's right, absolutely

3688
04:14:31.239 --> 04:14:35.040
and perhaps striking when I seem referenced
there when Jerry Lawler walked out at w

3689
04:14:35.200 --> 04:14:37.559
w F and it created that opening
in the chair. You know, I'm

3690
04:14:37.600 --> 04:14:41.639
saying Paul was rubbing his hands together
planning this day, but when the opportunity

3691
04:14:41.680 --> 04:14:46.440
opened, he was ready to without
telling anybody at ECW, jump into that

3692
04:14:48.559 --> 04:14:54.360
that opportunity. Unbelievable business mm hmm. And we can't conclude any coverage of

3693
04:14:54.440 --> 04:15:00.000
Living Dangerously two thousand, speaking of
what a business without discussing fucking yeah,

3694
04:15:00.079 --> 04:15:05.200
the great fall, the great fall
between new Jack and Vic Grimes. Oh

3695
04:15:05.319 --> 04:15:09.959
fuck that. Now. This is
also serendipitous because in doing our Dark Side

3696
04:15:09.959 --> 04:15:13.040
of the Ring Unheard podcast Episode one
was on you, Jackie. I believe

3697
04:15:13.399 --> 04:15:16.559
you were able to watch the New
Jack Dark Side episode. Yes, they

3698
04:15:16.639 --> 04:15:22.200
talk about this fall. They talk
about how fucking new Jack had brain fluid

3699
04:15:22.280 --> 04:15:24.120
leaking out of his head because Vic
Grimes flipped off twenty feet in the air

3700
04:15:24.120 --> 04:15:28.479
and landed on his fucking dome on
the cement. We talked about how they

3701
04:15:28.520 --> 04:15:31.479
came back around x PW when he
tried to throw Vic Grimes out of the

3702
04:15:31.559 --> 04:15:39.799
ring and fucking kill him, right
thoughts, I mean, where do you

3703
04:15:39.840 --> 04:15:43.000
want? I mean, there are
two sides to it. There is the

3704
04:15:43.040 --> 04:15:50.479
moral side to it, and then
there's also the professional wrestling side to it,

3705
04:15:50.479 --> 04:15:56.200
like the looking in it as just
a part of the match. Because

3706
04:15:58.479 --> 04:16:02.799
the more I mean, I don't
think any Boddy should take that idiotic of

3707
04:16:02.840 --> 04:16:07.559
a fucking bump ever, I mean
stupid. I don't see what the point

3708
04:16:07.639 --> 04:16:10.559
is. I mean the problem is, you know, when it comes to

3709
04:16:10.600 --> 04:16:15.799
that kind of shit, you get
you suddenly now like then you have to

3710
04:16:15.879 --> 04:16:18.799
have someone top it. And then
you gotta have someone top that. And

3711
04:16:18.879 --> 04:16:22.879
that's why Vick Grimes came in,
honestly, because he was doing front flips

3712
04:16:22.920 --> 04:16:25.760
off high perches when other guys are
just doing straight dives. He would do

3713
04:16:25.799 --> 04:16:29.120
front flips off the top buckle to
the floor through a table, and here,

3714
04:16:29.280 --> 04:16:32.000
instead of just new Jack jumping off
the high perch and splashing someone through

3715
04:16:32.000 --> 04:16:33.639
a table, which is incredibly dangerous
as it was and fucked him up plenty

3716
04:16:33.680 --> 04:16:37.799
of times, was not as dangerous
as this completely flammixing situation. We're like,

3717
04:16:37.879 --> 04:16:42.239
why are they both up there and
rights? And that's the problem that

3718
04:16:42.319 --> 04:16:45.959
I have it from from if you're
going to do something this like this,

3719
04:16:47.159 --> 04:16:51.840
and I don't I don't condone these
kinds of stunts at all. I think

3720
04:16:51.879 --> 04:16:56.840
it's stupid, but if you're gonna
do it, like I sat there saying,

3721
04:16:57.639 --> 04:17:02.079
oh I see huh and this happened, I couldn't believe in my eyes

3722
04:17:02.079 --> 04:17:08.440
I watched this live. Yeah,
okay, like you were there or I

3723
04:17:08.520 --> 04:17:11.680
mean, do you really, because
I mean I thought it was one of

3724
04:17:11.760 --> 04:17:15.920
the most I guess I didn't even
put it together because I don't even I

3725
04:17:15.000 --> 04:17:18.799
never think about this one. I
always think about the one where he tried

3726
04:17:18.799 --> 04:17:21.600
to kill the guy. You know, I never real even think of this

3727
04:17:21.600 --> 04:17:25.360
as being a thing like I actually
it's hilarious. I don't remember seeing this

3728
04:17:25.360 --> 04:17:26.719
in the dark side up. It's
a whole pretext to why he would have

3729
04:17:26.760 --> 04:17:32.719
been so mad at first place totally. And so I'm just like watching there,

3730
04:17:32.760 --> 04:17:36.120
I'm saying, oh, they're gonna
do a stupid bump. You can

3731
04:17:36.200 --> 04:17:41.280
see it. You can see them
getting it ready, like because the way

3732
04:17:41.360 --> 04:17:45.079
they move, the way that they're
up there, it's just so and this

3733
04:17:45.280 --> 04:17:51.680
makes it even makes me angry actually
as a wrestling fan, Like I sit

3734
04:17:51.760 --> 04:17:55.040
there saying, how am I supposed
to believe this shit so true? How

3735
04:17:55.120 --> 04:17:57.520
much supposed to believe that you did
anything when you're literally just you guys went

3736
04:17:57.600 --> 04:18:03.399
up there for no reason at all, up a bunch of scaffolding and then

3737
04:18:03.399 --> 04:18:11.840
and then like he just he so
like the scenario is, and I know

3738
04:18:11.879 --> 04:18:15.040
we'll deep dive it. But Grimes
attempts like a power bomb or something,

3739
04:18:15.159 --> 04:18:22.200
but then new Jack low blows him, grabs Grimes and then he looks to

3740
04:18:22.280 --> 04:18:29.040
see where he's at. Yeah,
which, if it wasn't if my if

3741
04:18:29.079 --> 04:18:34.479
my suspension of disbelief, you know, wasn't destroyed before, it's fucking six

3742
04:18:34.559 --> 04:18:42.239
feet under now and he adjusts his
fucking feet and Graham's just Grimes just says,

3743
04:18:42.239 --> 04:18:45.719
look like an idiot, And it's
kind of like, why aren't you

3744
04:18:45.799 --> 04:18:49.840
defending yourself number one? Why aren't
you trying to act like something's going on?

3745
04:18:49.959 --> 04:18:56.719
But no, you guys have to
do this stunt and it's not safe

3746
04:18:56.680 --> 04:19:03.280
and you're scared you gonna either injure
yourself or die. And then without even

3747
04:19:03.319 --> 04:19:08.920
doing a move, they just kind
of It's one of the most phony,

3748
04:19:10.159 --> 04:19:15.719
yep idiotic wrestling stunts I've ever seen. It's so sad to me how knew

3749
04:19:15.799 --> 04:19:21.639
Jack, after doing years of dives, didn't feel like he could just stop

3750
04:19:22.319 --> 04:19:26.840
doing dives like this, And he's
talked about how, you know, he

3751
04:19:26.959 --> 04:19:29.959
wasn't really given a choice that once
he started doing it, it became an

3752
04:19:30.000 --> 04:19:33.399
expectation and people would come to him
backstage, but what's the dive tonight?

3753
04:19:33.280 --> 04:19:37.760
I'm diving. But it's sad to
me that they never reached a point in

3754
04:19:37.799 --> 04:19:40.920
ECW where he just didn't have to
do this anymore. You know, it's

3755
04:19:40.959 --> 04:19:42.120
one thing to do it to put
it in the bank so you can get

3756
04:19:42.159 --> 04:19:45.360
over and stay over and like make
money off that risk. Yeah, right,

3757
04:19:45.520 --> 04:19:48.760
But like, are you just showing
up until you die or until you

3758
04:19:48.920 --> 04:19:52.840
in this case end up in the
hospital for a year or or out of

3759
04:19:52.920 --> 04:19:56.520
action for a year due to the
injury suffered in this circumstance. And that's

3760
04:19:56.520 --> 04:19:57.760
what it is. Just like you
said, it's not because he's trying to

3761
04:19:57.760 --> 04:20:00.399
find creative ways to get to the
bump. It's because he's just you have

3762
04:20:00.520 --> 04:20:03.639
to find a way to climb that
high And if you show up in the

3763
04:20:03.639 --> 04:20:07.120
scaffold is in no condition or isn't
configured in such a way where you can

3764
04:20:07.200 --> 04:20:11.479
believably brawl up there and believably dive
up there, then just kill the spot.

3765
04:20:11.639 --> 04:20:15.479
No, I can't do that because
I'm new jack, and if I

3766
04:20:15.520 --> 04:20:19.319
don't dive, noone gives a fuck. And A I don't think that's true.

3767
04:20:19.360 --> 04:20:25.040
And b if it were true,
fuck them right if that's if they

3768
04:20:25.040 --> 04:20:26.440
don't have any use for you other
than if you're taking these kind of risks,

3769
04:20:26.479 --> 04:20:30.920
it's time to do something else.
Yeah, exactly, that's just stop

3770
04:20:30.959 --> 04:20:33.479
wasting everyone's time. And where he
was at And then you had a vic

3771
04:20:33.520 --> 04:20:36.159
Grimes like like I said, who
really only made his name because he was

3772
04:20:36.159 --> 04:20:37.680
willing to take big bumps like this
too. I mean, sack of shit,

3773
04:20:37.760 --> 04:20:40.600
you know, I guess a nice
enough guy. He pissed a lot

3774
04:20:40.600 --> 04:20:42.719
of people off too, but he
wasn't like an actively bad guy, but

3775
04:20:42.840 --> 04:20:47.079
he only got on the radar because
he was willing to do front flips from

3776
04:20:47.159 --> 04:20:52.360
high purchase and take you know,
inhumane punishment and basically be mcfoley times twelve.

3777
04:20:52.399 --> 04:20:55.840
You know, it's like he's the
guy that Flair is screaming at mcfoley

3778
04:20:55.879 --> 04:20:59.840
about inspiring from hell in the cell. Remember that TNA promo where he's screaming

3779
04:21:00.040 --> 04:21:03.440
out all these guys he brought into
the business. Yep, the pressure he's

3780
04:21:03.440 --> 04:21:07.159
putting on he ended up putting on
guys in the business to take these kind

3781
04:21:07.159 --> 04:21:11.319
of risks. So this is that
rit large, this is that manifest and

3782
04:21:11.399 --> 04:21:14.479
Nwjack was the same way. But
with Grimes, he's got a flip.

3783
04:21:15.040 --> 04:21:17.159
And that's big part of the problem
here. If you got a flip,

3784
04:21:17.760 --> 04:21:21.520
then you can't control your descent.
And if you get up there and you

3785
04:21:21.559 --> 04:21:23.040
get cold feet, which is what
happened, we'll talk about, you're gonna

3786
04:21:23.079 --> 04:21:27.319
land on his fucking head. And
there's two tables down there, and the

3787
04:21:27.360 --> 04:21:32.440
first one slides off instead of breaks
downwards. So Nwjack ends up sliding off

3788
04:21:32.479 --> 04:21:34.920
the top table from this incredibly high
perch and landing on the cement and then

3789
04:21:36.000 --> 04:21:40.280
big fucking three and fifty pounds viit
Grimes is flipping over at his ass lands

3790
04:21:40.319 --> 04:21:47.000
right in his head on the concrete
smush smashed. So all that I knew

3791
04:21:47.000 --> 04:21:52.920
you'd come around to shoot interview that
an Jack did with a YouTube channel called

3792
04:21:52.920 --> 04:21:57.600
the lad TV on this fateful night. Paul, you wanted men bait to

3793
04:21:57.639 --> 04:22:04.079
go through a table with through two
tables, and I was cool with it.

3794
04:22:04.239 --> 04:22:08.159
I wouldn't. I wasn't cool with
going through two tables because I just

3795
04:22:10.559 --> 04:22:15.639
it was a hazard. It was
to go through one table is easy,

3796
04:22:17.000 --> 04:22:18.719
but to try to go through two, you don't know the table gonna slip

3797
04:22:18.760 --> 04:22:22.399
off off the top table and what, and you don't know where you're gonnall

3798
04:22:22.399 --> 04:22:25.840
where you're gonna land. So I
didn't want to go through two. But

3799
04:22:25.959 --> 04:22:27.239
he went on and said, ya, just go through two and everything can

3800
04:22:27.360 --> 04:22:32.079
be fine. So I was like
all right. I was like, all

3801
04:22:32.159 --> 04:22:37.159
right, just we'll do that.
So Vig Chass when I went to talk

3802
04:22:37.200 --> 04:22:41.600
to him, he was like,
I said, did you want to check

3803
04:22:41.600 --> 04:22:42.360
the scaffold out? He was like
yeah, I wouldn't check it out.

3804
04:22:42.399 --> 04:22:45.760
I said, is it okay?
Because I was running late because it was

3805
04:22:45.840 --> 04:22:49.159
suing and he was like, yeah, I checked it out and everything's fine,

3806
04:22:49.200 --> 04:22:53.760
so will to be all right?
I'm like all right. So when

3807
04:22:53.840 --> 04:22:57.639
it came time for us to go
off the scaffold, we got up top

3808
04:23:00.079 --> 04:23:07.079
and Vic didn't want to go,
and I was like, let's go on

3809
04:23:07.159 --> 04:23:10.840
three and he was like and then
we having this conversation on pay per view

3810
04:23:11.159 --> 04:23:15.479
on TV live. You know what
I mean. He was like, Jah,

3811
04:23:15.520 --> 04:23:18.600
I can't go, it's too high. I said, who are we

3812
04:23:18.760 --> 04:23:22.959
going? He said, I can't
too high? So I just pulled him

3813
04:23:22.000 --> 04:23:26.280
down and he landed on top of
me and he did a flip and his

3814
04:23:26.479 --> 04:23:29.479
back lean up again into my head
and slay on my head into the floor.

3815
04:23:29.959 --> 04:23:34.239
Now, crack my skuld You imagine
being up there, your legs shaking.

3816
04:23:36.360 --> 04:23:38.159
If you haven't seen it, the
scaffold isn't like a flat piece of

3817
04:23:38.239 --> 04:23:44.120
plywood. It's like railings with wide
open spaces between. I mean, it's

3818
04:23:44.280 --> 04:23:47.840
it's it's real scaffolding, right all
right. It's the kind of scaffolding that

3819
04:23:47.879 --> 04:23:51.000
you get when you fucking paint the
side of your house. How do I

3820
04:23:51.120 --> 04:23:53.040
know this because I got scaffolding and
had to build it and paint the side

3821
04:23:53.040 --> 04:23:56.440
of my house. I was horrified
by Oh my god, it was the

3822
04:23:56.520 --> 04:23:59.639
worst thing ever. I was like, I can't fucking build this or go

3823
04:23:59.760 --> 04:24:04.639
up on this yet it's not,
no, it's it is. It's terrifying

3824
04:24:04.719 --> 04:24:08.440
stuff. And these two wrestlers two
hundred north of two hundred pounds a new

3825
04:24:08.520 --> 04:24:12.239
jack north of three hundred pounds vic
rhymes are standing up there with the bright

3826
04:24:12.360 --> 04:24:18.920
lights and their legs are shaking,
and it turns out Vick is sing,

3827
04:24:19.600 --> 04:24:23.280
I can't do it. It makes
it so much worse that he says that

3828
04:24:23.799 --> 04:24:26.639
to me. It's bad enough that
they did this, but that they did

3829
04:24:26.719 --> 04:24:30.440
it, yes, knowing it was
going to be a bad idea anyway,

3830
04:24:30.719 --> 04:24:34.440
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah
yeah, what a business? Yep.

3831
04:24:36.959 --> 04:24:40.040
I mean, id damn lucky that
no one died. This is kind of

3832
04:24:40.079 --> 04:24:44.200
the thing too. Seriously, they
all died years later. We we don't

3833
04:24:44.239 --> 04:24:48.079
talk enough about that, but they
didn't die on pay per view. It's

3834
04:24:48.159 --> 04:24:56.319
one of those weird things where I
I, it's sad to me that that

3835
04:24:59.239 --> 04:25:03.479
there really is is I And I
get the idea that you you know,

3836
04:25:03.559 --> 04:25:04.600
you set up something, you set
up kind of a gimmick, and so

3837
04:25:04.639 --> 04:25:08.239
you gotta you gotta. You feel
like you need to to live up to

3838
04:25:08.360 --> 04:25:15.479
that gimmick. But at the same
time, it's sad to me that there's

3839
04:25:17.959 --> 04:25:22.879
there's not enough self worth in some
of these guys to say no, no,

3840
04:25:23.000 --> 04:25:26.079
no, no, no, I'm
not doing that. That's crazy.

3841
04:25:26.079 --> 04:25:29.239
It turns out even if you do
say that, you still have to bump

3842
04:25:29.280 --> 04:25:34.040
anyway right of course, and looked
like idiots doing it too, Like it

3843
04:25:34.120 --> 04:25:37.760
doesn't even look cool, it looks
stupid. I remember just being mortified.

3844
04:25:37.840 --> 04:25:44.520
Looks like they just do that,
Like why that was so disjointed and dumb?

3845
04:25:44.719 --> 04:25:45.879
Like is one thing you know you
did you expect a new Jack to

3846
04:25:45.959 --> 04:25:49.120
jump off a balcony through two tables, That's what you expected. But that's

3847
04:25:49.159 --> 04:25:52.600
if they were both up there.
Made no sense because like you said,

3848
04:25:53.399 --> 04:25:56.879
you had to take such a contrived
path to get up there both at the

3849
04:25:56.920 --> 04:26:00.399
same time. Not to mention,
yeah, not to mention the fact that

3850
04:26:02.000 --> 04:26:03.959
And I don't know, I don't
know if this is what was on the

3851
04:26:04.120 --> 04:26:07.920
actual pay per view or if it
was a WWE thing, but like you

3852
04:26:08.000 --> 04:26:11.559
got this music playing over the whole
fucking thing. It's not even really a

3853
04:26:11.680 --> 04:26:15.680
match. Yeah, that's because they
played natural Born Killer by Ice Cube every

3854
04:26:15.719 --> 04:26:17.879
time New Jack came out, and
they played it for the entirety of the

3855
04:26:17.920 --> 04:26:22.280
brawl. That was a key part
of the ECW experience. But that's a

3856
04:26:22.520 --> 04:26:26.159
licensed song and WW can't play that
song, so they chose a they choose

3857
04:26:26.200 --> 04:26:29.280
not to, they choose not to
get there, write the license for it.

3858
04:26:29.360 --> 04:26:32.079
Whatever. Yeah, we talked about
that at nauseum, but it's disgusting

3859
04:26:32.120 --> 04:26:33.559
the solemn they pick. I mean, it's I guess it's a it's a

3860
04:26:33.680 --> 04:26:37.479
rough facsimile of the kind of song
that played, but God does it sucked

3861
04:26:37.520 --> 04:26:41.879
the life out of what was like
some of the most memorable parts of ECW

3862
04:26:42.040 --> 04:26:45.280
shows. When Knwjack would do that
brawl to that music, you just saw,

3863
04:26:45.360 --> 04:26:49.239
like you know, AW does Anarchy
in the Arena, which is a

3864
04:26:49.280 --> 04:26:53.159
similar concept where guys are just brawling
for like thirty minutes and the music.

3865
04:26:53.239 --> 04:26:57.040
It turns out, the music they
play continuous during that brawl is key because

3866
04:26:57.399 --> 04:27:02.479
they played wild Thing John Moxley singh
Entrance song, which they dealt you license

3867
04:27:02.520 --> 04:27:04.399
once and it was great. It
made the match so much more eventful and

3868
04:27:04.520 --> 04:27:07.680
it just it just you know,
as they cut to different sections through the

3869
04:27:07.680 --> 04:27:11.239
arena and different pairings off of guys
brawling. It just in sync with the

3870
04:27:11.319 --> 04:27:14.159
music. Was great. And then
this year they did the Final Countdown.

3871
04:27:14.200 --> 04:27:15.959
They paid for that. They played
it a couple of times, which is

3872
04:27:17.000 --> 04:27:21.360
a very expensive song to license,
and was dang O'Brien's Brian Dangelson's a Ring

3873
04:27:21.440 --> 04:27:23.440
of Honor theme in the first theme
he was known with. I mean,

3874
04:27:23.479 --> 04:27:26.600
they played that people want Nuts and
it made the brawling, It imbued the

3875
04:27:26.639 --> 04:27:30.280
brawling with like purpose and like a
cinematic quality. It was great. And

3876
04:27:30.360 --> 04:27:33.680
the other songs they played, they
played several songs during that thing. It

3877
04:27:33.760 --> 04:27:37.159
was great. The song is key
to this kind of match working and that

3878
04:27:37.360 --> 04:27:42.120
all started with New Jack really and
man, those things are just you can't

3879
04:27:42.159 --> 04:27:47.600
appreciate what they were with the song
ww overlays and it takes the real crowd

3880
04:27:47.639 --> 04:27:48.959
noise out of it. It's just
it's it's a poor thing. When we

3881
04:27:49.040 --> 04:27:52.600
do the deep dive of ECW Living
Dangerously two thousand and I'll play some snippets

3882
04:27:52.639 --> 04:27:56.200
of what it actually sounded like at
the time, but that but I totally

3883
04:27:56.920 --> 04:28:00.159
even though you don't realize it,
your point your finger on a huge problem

3884
04:28:00.239 --> 04:28:06.639
with the the editing of these things. I mean, but it also just

3885
04:28:06.840 --> 04:28:10.399
yeah, I mean, it just
it also takes away from I mean,

3886
04:28:10.440 --> 04:28:15.399
I'm not familiar with that style of
him brawling to the music. I'm not.

3887
04:28:15.879 --> 04:28:21.159
That's not something I'm very familiar with. And it just everything about it

3888
04:28:21.319 --> 04:28:25.879
just seemed so phony and stupid.
And I'm not a big New Jack fan,

3889
04:28:26.479 --> 04:28:27.520
not a lot to be a fan
of other than the Dives. I

3890
04:28:27.600 --> 04:28:30.760
mean, he was, you know, he was a character, and he

3891
04:28:30.799 --> 04:28:33.520
would he spent a lot of time
with the fans, like fans ay Stubby

3892
04:28:33.520 --> 04:28:37.840
shows, he'd like walk the line
while they're wait and get in and he

3893
04:28:37.840 --> 04:28:40.559
would joke around with them, and
he would make friends with the fans,

3894
04:28:41.399 --> 04:28:44.879
and I think a lot of the
reaction that he would get came from that

3895
04:28:44.959 --> 04:28:48.120
sort of good will. He's a
funny guy. He was always shit talking,

3896
04:28:48.319 --> 04:28:51.319
scary as fuck. You could believe
in him, but if you approached

3897
04:28:51.399 --> 04:28:53.479
him personally, he'd joke around and
be kind of like a nice, cool

3898
04:28:53.479 --> 04:28:56.600
guy too. At the same time, I think that comes through in some

3899
04:28:56.639 --> 04:28:59.879
of the reactions he would get.
But his matches and he just sat there

3900
04:29:00.040 --> 04:29:00.760
like, what's going to pull out
of his garbage? Can it's gonna be

3901
04:29:00.760 --> 04:29:03.959
a keyboard, a computer keyboard?
Is it going to be a laptop of

3902
04:29:03.000 --> 04:29:06.200
PlayStation? You're you gonna hit somebody
over the head with a guitar or a

3903
04:29:06.280 --> 04:29:10.719
crutch or a fucking lug wrench.
And then it's you know, how high

3904
04:29:10.760 --> 04:29:12.040
is the balcony he's going to dive
off of? I went to house shows

3905
04:29:12.120 --> 04:29:15.760
and you know, and that's shit. That's it's just the shit is just

3906
04:29:15.879 --> 04:29:21.520
so And I you know, I
speak this now as as as a forty

3907
04:29:21.559 --> 04:29:26.319
three year old and in twenty twenty
four, but I wonder I don't know

3908
04:29:26.440 --> 04:29:29.959
if I would have enjoyed it back
then. But it just seems so cheap

3909
04:29:30.000 --> 04:29:32.639
to me. Yeah, it just
seems I mean, I mean, it's

3910
04:29:32.680 --> 04:29:34.799
not it doesn't seem it it is
cheap. It is. It's just cheap

3911
04:29:34.959 --> 04:29:40.200
in a way that like you're you
know him, him and his violence and

3912
04:29:40.360 --> 04:29:47.879
his weapons and his stupid bumps in
many ways is no different than what happened

3913
04:29:47.879 --> 04:29:53.360
with the Godfather, the you know, the wrestler in that he it just

3914
04:29:53.440 --> 04:29:57.200
became about the women. Oh and
really wasn't about him, you know,

3915
04:29:57.600 --> 04:30:03.319
Yeah, he had no magician on
the card other than the brawling Yeah,

3916
04:30:03.319 --> 04:30:06.399
it's like he's gonna have this big
brawl. He's going to jump off something

3917
04:30:06.520 --> 04:30:08.920
high and be stupid and kid people
with weapons, and it's like, that's

3918
04:30:10.000 --> 04:30:14.559
not that's cheap. They would time
it well where like you know, somebody

3919
04:30:14.639 --> 04:30:18.319
was getting beat down and triple teamed
and nobody was there to save the day,

3920
04:30:18.360 --> 04:30:21.079
and that he'd come out and shits
on. But you're absolutely right,

3921
04:30:21.120 --> 04:30:22.520
there was there was a ceiling to
that. And you know, frankly for

3922
04:30:22.680 --> 04:30:26.840
new for New Jack, I mean, there's nothing else he was going to

3923
04:30:26.879 --> 04:30:30.600
do in the business. Like that's
the thing about head. A lot of

3924
04:30:30.639 --> 04:30:33.440
these guys that you can like knock
it's like if they didn't do that,

3925
04:30:33.479 --> 04:30:37.280
they would have a job. And
given the choice between the two, if

3926
04:30:37.319 --> 04:30:41.840
you didn't have many other marketable skills. Yep, I'm not trying to blame

3927
04:30:41.920 --> 04:30:45.319
them fucking sling egg salad. Yeah, no, seriously, that is the

3928
04:30:45.360 --> 04:30:49.120
alternative. But you know, yeah, this is you know, this accident.

3929
04:30:49.680 --> 04:30:56.040
You ever seen one trick punk this
accident where you know, I mentioned

3930
04:30:56.079 --> 04:30:57.559
grinds lands on New Jack's head of
the concrete and you can see all kinds

3931
04:30:57.559 --> 04:31:00.639
of medical personnel and security kind of
flood the area, they cut away for

3932
04:31:00.719 --> 04:31:03.920
a while, they cut back for
a little bit, and you can tell

3933
04:31:03.959 --> 04:31:07.600
it's very serious. The announcers kind
of go silent as they're trying to figure

3934
04:31:07.639 --> 04:31:11.879
all this chaos out. Does account
for why ECW Living Dangerously two thousand comes

3935
04:31:11.879 --> 04:31:14.959
in at such a short run time? The Torch reporting at the time,

3936
04:31:15.000 --> 04:31:18.319
sources say Hayman told all the wrestlers
who had matches following New Jacks, take

3937
04:31:18.360 --> 04:31:21.760
all of the time New Jack's fall
to quote, take all of the time

3938
04:31:21.840 --> 04:31:23.479
you need, but let's wrap things
up and get out of here, so

3939
04:31:26.000 --> 04:31:29.799
so we don't get so freaking out. You can only imagine the calculations he's

3940
04:31:29.799 --> 04:31:33.559
are giving his head. Oh my
god, but a knew Jack did did

3941
04:31:33.680 --> 04:31:36.959
fucking the city of Danbury is coming
to hunt. I now there's going to

3942
04:31:36.959 --> 04:31:38.440
be a serious issue with local officials. I mean, you know, you

3943
04:31:38.520 --> 04:31:41.520
got to think when you're running on
the edge like ECW did all those years.

3944
04:31:42.159 --> 04:31:45.319
There's no way Paul hadn't sat down
and thought, well, what if

3945
04:31:45.319 --> 04:31:47.920
someone dies. On one of my
shows, we talked about the Lapsed Funk

3946
04:31:47.959 --> 04:31:52.559
where someone almost got burned death in
the fucking area because Terry Funk's wielding a

3947
04:31:52.559 --> 04:31:56.760
flaming branding iron with a soak towel
on foley on a fully swinging a chair

3948
04:31:56.799 --> 04:31:59.959
with a soaked towel on it.
That's what it was. Soaked and kerosene

3949
04:32:00.120 --> 04:32:03.920
or whatever. Fucking bunch of fun. You know you weren't have to shave.

3950
04:32:07.280 --> 04:32:10.879
That's good. The New Jack did
come out with a book, and

3951
04:32:11.319 --> 04:32:12.719
in it he describes the scene in
quite a bit of detail. In fact,

3952
04:32:14.120 --> 04:32:17.479
the aftermath, as we'll get to
of this episode, is sort of

3953
04:32:17.559 --> 04:32:22.120
the the introduction to his book,
he writes, like, almost always,

3954
04:32:22.159 --> 04:32:23.479
even at how shows and in front
of a tiny audiences, I climbed to

3955
04:32:23.520 --> 04:32:26.559
a much higher level than he followed
me up the ladder, stepping out of

3956
04:32:26.559 --> 04:32:30.120
the scaffold, I could already feel
it's shaking. Maybe I was just on

3957
04:32:30.159 --> 04:32:34.000
an uneven part. I stepped farther
out and the shaking got worse. Then

3958
04:32:34.040 --> 04:32:37.040
he arrived at the top. This
is bullshit, by the way, It's

3959
04:32:37.079 --> 04:32:41.639
just I can't believe it's they wrote
this in the book because Grimes is up

3960
04:32:41.639 --> 04:32:45.440
there first. Yeah right, not
not gonna say I thought even I thought

3961
04:32:45.479 --> 04:32:49.479
even Grimes started though he climbed up. Then he arrived at the top.

3962
04:32:49.559 --> 04:32:52.440
It was too fucking scared to do
anything but crawl, which is not true.

3963
04:32:52.479 --> 04:32:56.479
He's standing. You can't crawl.
There's no space to crawl. That's

3964
04:32:56.479 --> 04:33:00.879
the whole point. There's huge gaps. I don't think it's going to hold

3965
04:33:00.959 --> 04:33:03.000
us, he said softly. His
voice is Shaky's the surface, So that's

3966
04:33:03.040 --> 04:33:07.279
interesting. It's not it's too high. In his book, it's the thing

3967
04:33:07.400 --> 04:33:11.720
itself is going to collapse, which
is a different fear. You know it

3968
04:33:11.919 --> 04:33:14.080
is, yes, I mean,
and that's kind of the that's funny thing,

3969
04:33:15.040 --> 04:33:19.840
like, that's that's really what what
I remember building the scaffold. It

3970
04:33:19.959 --> 04:33:23.159
was like, that's what was my
biggest fear, really was. It didn't

3971
04:33:23.279 --> 04:33:27.360
it wasn't necessarily that it was high. It was it was that it was

3972
04:33:27.560 --> 04:33:33.240
high and it Rickety was like Rickety, oh my god. Every step you

3973
04:33:33.319 --> 04:33:37.279
hear like a oh no, no, I mean I couldn't. No,

3974
04:33:37.639 --> 04:33:41.799
I'm no not doing it. No. I thought you checked it out.

3975
04:33:41.840 --> 04:33:44.959
I told him, all in front
of a crow like I was so.

3976
04:33:45.599 --> 04:33:48.720
I was so angry at my wife, ha ha. I was so angry.

3977
04:33:48.840 --> 04:33:51.919
I was like, why are we
doing this? Like because you have

3978
04:33:52.000 --> 04:33:55.200
to prove you're a man. That's
why Oh well, I did end up

3979
04:33:55.200 --> 04:33:56.040
not doing I couldn't do it.
I couldn't do it. I was so

3980
04:33:56.200 --> 04:34:00.479
fucking scared, and plus my size, I'm like, fuck this, I'm

3981
04:34:00.479 --> 04:34:03.959
gonna I'm gonna die. If you're
not risking, if you're not lifting something

3982
04:34:03.000 --> 04:34:07.040
incredibly heavy, or you're not risking
your life for home improvement, are you

3983
04:34:07.119 --> 04:34:10.720
even a man? Uh? No? And I'm okay with that. And

3984
04:34:10.840 --> 04:34:12.400
I didn't And she ended up doing
it. No, I will fully admit

3985
04:34:12.479 --> 04:34:15.680
she ended up doing it because I
couldn't fucking do it. I was like

3986
04:34:15.560 --> 04:34:21.360
mortified, mortified back the whole thing. Oh yeah, absolutely, listen badass.

3987
04:34:21.439 --> 04:34:23.080
So it was a badass, absolute
badass. I don't think it's gonna

3988
04:34:23.080 --> 04:34:26.040
hold us, he said softly,
his voice as shaky as the surface.

3989
04:34:26.279 --> 04:34:29.200
I thought you checked it out,
I told him, all in front of

3990
04:34:29.240 --> 04:34:33.680
a crowd. I didn't. He
didn't. He had known that at least

3991
04:34:33.720 --> 04:34:34.959
one of us was going off the
scaffold to the ground, and he hadn't

3992
04:34:34.959 --> 04:34:37.400
even bothered to climb up and step
across it. That was a big part

3993
04:34:37.439 --> 04:34:41.840
when you get into some more detailed
reflections of new Jack on this episode,

3994
04:34:41.000 --> 04:34:45.880
was that he he had told Grimes
and I think we'll get into a bit

3995
04:34:45.919 --> 04:34:48.880
more of it. That he that
the scaffold need to be looked at,

3996
04:34:48.240 --> 04:34:52.439
and then he got to the show
late because of snowstorm in Connecticut. Knew

3997
04:34:52.520 --> 04:34:55.240
Jack did, so he kind of
took it on. Is how he tells

3998
04:34:55.279 --> 04:34:57.159
the story on Grimes's word, that
Grimes had gone on there and take a

3999
04:34:57.200 --> 04:35:00.400
look at the scaffold. My god, confirm, oh my god, accommodate

4000
04:35:00.439 --> 04:35:03.880
what they were going to go for. There's many different versions of this story.

4001
04:35:03.919 --> 04:35:07.799
We'll get to, I think the
most important ones here in the moment.

4002
04:35:07.959 --> 04:35:11.319
I guess he figured new Jack wrote, I just go up there,

4003
04:35:11.439 --> 04:35:12.959
jump off, recover, and finish
the match. Right. So, the

4004
04:35:14.000 --> 04:35:15.959
way he's framing it is Vic doesn't
expect to go up there with him,

4005
04:35:17.319 --> 04:35:18.520
so of course it's fine because I'm
not the one that has to fucking climb

4006
04:35:18.560 --> 04:35:23.159
it. That doesn't make sense because
the hmm, not at all fucking great,

4007
04:35:23.200 --> 04:35:25.759
he writes. Now we're in the
middle of the pay per view,

4008
04:35:25.880 --> 04:35:26.840
dozens of feed in the air,
in a structure that could tip over a

4009
04:35:26.880 --> 04:35:30.840
collapse on itself any second, now, with over five hundred pounds of grown

4010
04:35:30.880 --> 04:35:33.279
men on top of it, and
only tables and concrete there to break their

4011
04:35:33.319 --> 04:35:36.919
fall. Vic wanted to climb back
down. Wasn't happening. This was ECW

4012
04:35:37.119 --> 04:35:38.319
on pay per view TV and one
of the biggest spots at the night.

4013
04:35:38.360 --> 04:35:41.000
If we crawled back down, we'd
look like coward and exposed the business.

4014
04:35:41.439 --> 04:35:45.040
Yeah, you exposed the business by
coming up there. Actually actually yeah,

4015
04:35:45.040 --> 04:35:48.319
you're exposed the business going up there, and you expose the business by taking

4016
04:35:48.360 --> 04:35:52.880
the fall like you did. I
am anything you would. He would have

4017
04:35:52.880 --> 04:35:56.040
gotten real heat for not fucking doing
it. It would been probably better better

4018
04:35:56.119 --> 04:36:00.240
for his career. Actually, yeah, it's like Vic climbed out. I

4019
04:36:00.360 --> 04:36:03.400
was going to do it. This
motherfucker was too afraid. That's heat exactly

4020
04:36:03.599 --> 04:36:07.759
ECW Newjack writs, And that was
new Jack and wolzzing out wasn't allowed under

4021
04:36:07.759 --> 04:36:10.880
any circumstances. I grabbed him.
We're going on three, I informed him,

4022
04:36:10.919 --> 04:36:12.599
not a request, not a question, exactly what was going to happen.

4023
04:36:12.759 --> 04:36:15.159
But even as we started to fall, he pulled back. And that's

4024
04:36:15.200 --> 04:36:18.040
true if you watch the tape,
that is the thing like new Jack's going

4025
04:36:18.200 --> 04:36:23.200
He's starting to fall downwards with a
hand full of shirt, but Vic doesn't

4026
04:36:23.240 --> 04:36:27.240
lean forward. As new Jack falls, he pulls back one second and so

4027
04:36:27.360 --> 04:36:30.240
when he's launching, he's launching,
you know, a second behind k Newjack,

4028
04:36:30.279 --> 04:36:33.599
which is why he falls on his
head instead of in concert with him,

4029
04:36:33.720 --> 04:36:37.639
he doesn't fall next to him.
So stupid, so stupid, so

4030
04:36:37.959 --> 04:36:40.720
stupid. We went down. I
turned my head to help land right,

4031
04:36:41.000 --> 04:36:42.799
hoping to fall backward when I hit
the table and take the impact spread out

4032
04:36:42.799 --> 04:36:45.400
across my entire back. I figured
he'd land next to me, or maybe

4033
04:36:45.599 --> 04:36:48.479
near my waist enough to maybe take
a powder, that is, to take

4034
04:36:48.479 --> 04:36:52.439
a minute to recover, but not
end things early. How wrong I was.

4035
04:36:52.560 --> 04:36:53.840
The guy had done a full flip, landed on me just as my

4036
04:36:55.080 --> 04:36:57.319
feet hit the table, and smashed
my fucking head right into the ground.

4037
04:36:57.639 --> 04:37:02.119
When Vic landed on Jack's head,
this is a quote. I was about

4038
04:37:02.159 --> 04:37:04.240
thirty feet away this Jerry Lynn.
It wasn't good. I could tell from

4039
04:37:04.240 --> 04:37:07.759
the way they went off that something
wasn't right. Knew Jack writes that clips

4040
04:37:07.799 --> 04:37:11.000
become one of the most infamous wrestling
history, and if you've seen it,

4041
04:37:11.040 --> 04:37:14.000
you probably remember more about it than
I do. I'm not sure if I'm

4042
04:37:14.040 --> 04:37:15.720
glad that it was filmed at all. It was crazy, crazy as an

4043
04:37:15.759 --> 04:37:18.599
understatement for how I felt at that
moment. As first my consciousness would let

4044
04:37:18.639 --> 04:37:22.720
me realize. I went from falling
off a scaffold of fading in and out

4045
04:37:22.319 --> 04:37:27.479
in a hospital bed. I'd laid
there and had a seizure right in the

4046
04:37:27.520 --> 04:37:32.119
middle of the ship. Oh my
gods, that's what I heard and saw

4047
04:37:32.240 --> 04:37:33.880
later on the tapes. I'd been
one hundred feet past consciousness at the time.

4048
04:37:34.360 --> 04:37:37.040
Then I was stretched out, spent
a week in the hospital, and

4049
04:37:37.119 --> 04:37:41.560
somehow been released. Not that I
knew what the hell was going on through

4050
04:37:41.599 --> 04:37:44.880
any of it. I couldn't see
that blow to the brain might have knocked

4051
04:37:44.919 --> 04:37:48.840
my sight out permanently. Even the
doctors didn't know what would happen. I'd

4052
04:37:48.840 --> 04:37:51.799
had an MRI and there was a
crack behind my left ear over two inches

4053
04:37:51.840 --> 04:37:53.759
long. A friend of mine down
in Atlanta had taken me, and then

4054
04:37:53.799 --> 04:37:57.319
I lost it. I'd never be
able to wrestle again. What the hell

4055
04:37:57.360 --> 04:38:02.360
are you supposed to think when your
sight suddenly disappears and your skull might be

4056
04:38:02.400 --> 04:38:04.680
permanently busted open? What would I
ever be able to do again? At

4057
04:38:04.720 --> 04:38:12.279
all? Nothing except this. I
was ready to end everything if my friends

4058
04:38:12.319 --> 04:38:17.720
hadn't hidden all the guns and knives
in the home, I probably would have.

4059
04:38:18.080 --> 04:38:21.959
Wow, it wasn't safe for me
to leave the top floor. I'd

4060
04:38:22.000 --> 04:38:26.159
tried and fallen down the stairs.
I was stuck recording and Andy Griffith Show

4061
04:38:26.240 --> 04:38:29.000
Marathon and sitting there every day in
the dark, just listening to it.

4062
04:38:30.080 --> 04:38:32.479
My friends made sure I got enough
to eat, and eventually they took me

4063
04:38:32.560 --> 04:38:34.759
outside, but I still couldn't tell
if it was night or day. They

4064
04:38:34.840 --> 04:38:37.599
even called my mother and told her
what was going on. Typical of her,

4065
04:38:37.720 --> 04:38:40.319
she said, you couldn't afford to
come see me. Just what I

4066
04:38:40.400 --> 04:38:44.959
expected. There was nothing to do
but wait. Like every wrestler i'd been

4067
04:38:45.000 --> 04:38:47.680
on top, I've been on the
go for years, bouncing all over the

4068
04:38:47.680 --> 04:38:48.840
place, from city to city and
show to show, and now I couldn't

4069
04:38:48.840 --> 04:38:52.319
do anything but sit there and hope
my body would heal itself. Way too

4070
04:38:52.400 --> 04:38:56.599
slowly, my sight began to come
back. Things got blurry as hell,

4071
04:38:56.639 --> 04:39:00.720
but then more focused on the left
side. At least even today, nearly

4072
04:39:00.840 --> 04:39:03.400
two decades later, I still have
only about five percent of sight in my

4073
04:39:03.520 --> 04:39:10.560
right eye. Holy shit, and
Knwjack said another interviews including The Dark side

4074
04:39:10.560 --> 04:39:12.279
crew. That what really got him
was when he got back and watched the

4075
04:39:12.319 --> 04:39:18.360
tape months later, he noticed that
Vic Grimes, after this horrible situation,

4076
04:39:18.119 --> 04:39:22.720
walks out of the arena with his
hand up in the air. I keep

4077
04:39:22.720 --> 04:39:26.959
won the match. Wow. That
pissed him off. Oh boy, he

4078
04:39:26.000 --> 04:39:29.639
remembers showing buffalo and had a knife
in his pocket. He started to kill

4079
04:39:29.680 --> 04:39:33.119
the motherfucker. She wopped up and
slapped him. What is wrong with these

4080
04:39:33.200 --> 04:39:38.279
people? I swear to God,
like, just fucking it's it's it's fucking

4081
04:39:38.400 --> 04:39:42.080
fake bullshit. That's why it's real. It was Jack, I didn't mean

4082
04:39:42.119 --> 04:39:45.000
to do it, said your motherfucker. You didn't even call me. And

4083
04:39:45.080 --> 04:39:48.799
that was a huge thing for knew
Jack that there was no phone call apology

4084
04:39:48.840 --> 04:39:52.319
from Vic Grimes after this happened.
I sat home for almost a year.

4085
04:39:52.360 --> 04:39:55.880
Didn't even call me to say the
fuck I was doing. So that's your

4086
04:39:55.919 --> 04:39:57.599
fault, no matter what the mistake
was it living dangerously, it's your fault

4087
04:39:57.639 --> 04:40:03.200
to not follow up. And he
kept saying I'm sorry, and people was

4088
04:40:03.240 --> 04:40:04.560
telling him to call me. He
didn't call me. But when we got

4089
04:40:04.599 --> 04:40:10.240
to XPW and we had a match
and his loser gets thrown off the side

4090
04:40:10.279 --> 04:40:15.360
of the scaffold forty feet and we
know how that went. Yes before the

4091
04:40:15.439 --> 04:40:21.400
match, According to what a new
Jack told dark Side, he Vic allegedly

4092
04:40:21.599 --> 04:40:22.919
came up to him and gave him
some coke as an eight ball and said,

4093
04:40:22.919 --> 04:40:26.439
here's the piece offering. I said, we straight, and then I

4094
04:40:26.439 --> 04:40:30.680
said I'm gonna do it. I
got up that scaffold, tased him.

4095
04:40:30.680 --> 04:40:33.240
He bought a taser. He talks
about this. He went and bought a

4096
04:40:33.279 --> 04:40:37.159
taser at a pawn shot before the
event, and he tases Vic grinds for

4097
04:40:37.279 --> 04:40:40.599
real up high on this forty foot
scaffold. This is in two thousand and

4098
04:40:40.639 --> 04:40:44.279
two, after ECW had folded in, another company called XPW had opened up

4099
04:40:44.279 --> 04:40:48.279
to run the arena run by porn
promoter Rob Black, which there's also a

4100
04:40:48.360 --> 04:40:51.759
dark Set episode about. And I
grabbed him and I threw him and he

4101
04:40:51.759 --> 04:40:53.400
went away. Did we do we
did? We? Did? We did?

4102
04:40:53.720 --> 04:40:57.479
Did we? Did we do?
An XPW in for journey a bit?

4103
04:40:59.720 --> 04:41:03.840
But he also did it some other
time too. Did they do a

4104
04:41:03.880 --> 04:41:08.759
war games match? You're probably thinking
of CZW Combat Zone. I remember the

4105
04:41:08.840 --> 04:41:11.119
other one. I remember doing one
other one though too. Maybe there was

4106
04:41:11.159 --> 04:41:18.000
an XPW warritty. It's like,
I just feel like I remember seeing something.

4107
04:41:18.479 --> 04:41:22.000
Well XPW does we did hardcore Homecoming
two thousand or heat Waved two thousand

4108
04:41:22.000 --> 04:41:26.159
and one of those two and that
was a show where XPW Maybe that's that's

4109
04:41:26.240 --> 04:41:29.200
what it was. I bet it
was the CW guys had a fight with

4110
04:41:29.400 --> 04:41:30.799
them out in the back of the
parking lot. Yet, yeah, yeah,

4111
04:41:30.959 --> 04:41:34.560
that was it. So he threw
him off the scaffold. Anyone,

4112
04:41:34.599 --> 04:41:37.080
if you haven't seen this clip,
you gott to look it up. He

4113
04:41:37.200 --> 04:41:40.599
just he sends Vic Grimes and Grimes
just the ring is filled with tables,

4114
04:41:40.639 --> 04:41:42.360
like thirty tables stacked on top of
each other, and Grimes gets thrown in

4115
04:41:42.400 --> 04:41:45.560
stow way where he clears all the
tables and lands on the buckle and the

4116
04:41:45.639 --> 04:41:49.880
top rope. And he lands where
he with such a spring from such a

4117
04:41:49.919 --> 04:41:52.840
height that he flips all the way
backwards and does a moon salt. And

4118
04:41:52.919 --> 04:41:56.200
it's only because he landed and springed
off the ropes he didn't fucking die basically,

4119
04:41:56.840 --> 04:42:00.880
and knew Jack after the fact would
talk about like I intentionally tried to

4120
04:42:00.959 --> 04:42:03.639
kill him. That's why that happened. Now you can question the authenticity of

4121
04:42:03.639 --> 04:42:10.840
that remark, but nonetheless it was
near death, no question. And according

4122
04:42:10.840 --> 04:42:11.680
to new Jackie went up to him
when he was laying in the ring and

4123
04:42:11.720 --> 04:42:15.680
said, now we're even fuck.
I don't think he did that. If

4124
04:42:15.720 --> 04:42:17.880
you watch the tape, Nu Jack
doesn't go towhere near him after he falls

4125
04:42:17.919 --> 04:42:19.279
off the scaffold, and he was
high as fuck up there, and k

4126
04:42:19.279 --> 04:42:22.680
new Jack said that as well,
So that only helps. That was the

4127
04:42:22.759 --> 04:42:26.080
last time he saw him. Now, of course there's always another story,

4128
04:42:26.200 --> 04:42:32.279
right, It's another person that had
a vantage point that no one ever Oh

4129
04:42:32.360 --> 04:42:34.080
boy and the ball. No,
no, no, this isn't This isn't

4130
04:42:34.080 --> 04:42:41.040
a proprietary this isn't primary research.
This is a recent interview that one of

4131
04:42:41.080 --> 04:42:45.000
the members of the Baldy stable that
Vic Grimes belonged to Angel, who's in

4132
04:42:45.119 --> 04:42:48.880
action here on this card and brawls
of it with new Jack. He was

4133
04:42:48.919 --> 04:42:52.720
recently on the Hannibal TVGNW podcast and
he's got some details on this Vic Grhymes

4134
04:42:52.840 --> 04:42:56.439
Nwjack Living Dangerously two thousand fall that
I'd never heard before. He says,

4135
04:42:56.479 --> 04:43:02.360
Boss that originally Angel was to be
the one to take the bump, So

4136
04:43:02.479 --> 04:43:07.080
really the ship that happened between him
and Vic. Grimes. Like perfect example

4137
04:43:07.119 --> 04:43:12.159
is because Grimes pushed Jack. He
just kept pushing them and pushing them and

4138
04:43:12.240 --> 04:43:17.240
pushing them. I like Vic,
I have no problem with Vic. Vic

4139
04:43:17.400 --> 04:43:21.080
is awesome, But just standing from
the outside looking in, you know,

4140
04:43:21.360 --> 04:43:23.319
watching the shit happen, I'm like, oh my god, Vic, shut

4141
04:43:23.479 --> 04:43:27.840
up. You know. Like the
original story was, is that like,

4142
04:43:27.959 --> 04:43:32.520
okay, let's just use the Denver, Connecticut situation. I was I was

4143
04:43:32.520 --> 04:43:36.959
supposed to fall off that scaffold.
That's a straight shoot. The original version

4144
04:43:37.159 --> 04:43:40.040
was it was me and Jack's supposed
to go to the top of the scaffole.

4145
04:43:40.599 --> 04:43:42.919
But on that scaffold, it was
just it was like an open floor.

4146
04:43:42.919 --> 04:43:45.919
If you watch the video, if
you look on the under their feet,

4147
04:43:47.040 --> 04:43:49.599
that's like an open hole. So
I originally said, hey, guys,

4148
04:43:49.680 --> 04:43:56.319
can we get a plywood big enough
to put on that to cover that

4149
04:43:56.479 --> 04:43:59.759
hole so we could have some stabilities. Because the origin was I was going

4150
04:43:59.799 --> 04:44:03.880
to was to get stoop suplex.
He threw four tables were supposed to put

4151
04:44:03.919 --> 04:44:10.200
him across and just go right through. So when they came back and say,

4152
04:44:10.240 --> 04:44:12.240
hey, hey, so we can't
we didn't get the table we didn't.

4153
04:44:12.279 --> 04:44:15.439
We didn't get to the plywood,
so we didn't have time. Something

4154
04:44:15.439 --> 04:44:18.720
like, I'm not fucking doing it
because I just knew it was unstable.

4155
04:44:18.880 --> 04:44:22.880
So Vic, when me and to
Devido were talking about it, Vic was

4156
04:44:22.919 --> 04:44:26.040
like, I'll do it now.
The original thing was that Jack said,

4157
04:44:26.159 --> 04:44:30.560
once we do that spot, everybody
gets laid out. We all get carried

4158
04:44:30.599 --> 04:44:36.279
out. Nobody, nobody wins.
It's just everybody just laid out. So

4159
04:44:36.759 --> 04:44:41.479
when I got laid out by the
guitar, he fell off the top with

4160
04:44:41.040 --> 04:44:45.520
Grimes and they landed and Grimes landed
on his head. We're all laid out.

4161
04:44:47.560 --> 04:44:49.240
It comes Grimes. He gets up
and hits himself on the head.

4162
04:44:49.840 --> 04:44:52.919
You know, yeah, he sticks
his hands up and stuff. I noticed

4163
04:44:52.959 --> 04:44:55.599
it, but I didn't say anything. I didn't, you know, it

4164
04:44:55.639 --> 04:44:57.240
didn't click. I was just like, oh shit, whatever. So we

4165
04:44:57.360 --> 04:45:03.319
went to the back. Jack goes
to the hospital and and all that Vick

4166
04:45:03.479 --> 04:45:04.599
was him was like, oh it
was Jack's fault. You know, he

4167
04:45:04.639 --> 04:45:07.840
didn't want to go, you know, he didn't want to do this,

4168
04:45:07.319 --> 04:45:14.000
didn't want so, you know,
he was afraid to fall. So Grinds

4169
04:45:14.080 --> 04:45:17.799
was still new and he you know, you know that old philosophy telephone telegram

4170
04:45:17.919 --> 04:45:21.000
tell a wrestler, and he never
called Jack. He never checked in on

4171
04:45:21.159 --> 04:45:26.959
Jack, you know, for that
injury. So Buffalo, New York at

4172
04:45:26.000 --> 04:45:30.479
the Burt Flickature Center, Jack was
gone from that time to that show.

4173
04:45:30.400 --> 04:45:36.240
And so we're in the locker room. I'm tying my shoes and it was

4174
04:45:36.319 --> 04:45:38.560
like a locker, you know,
like at high school locker room. So

4175
04:45:40.639 --> 04:45:42.040
Vick was on the other side of
the locker behind me, and I was

4176
04:45:42.080 --> 04:45:44.919
on the other side, tide of
my boots. And I look up and

4177
04:45:44.959 --> 04:45:48.119
here comes Jack and he's walking by
me. Yo, Jack, what's up?

4178
04:45:48.159 --> 04:45:51.080
And he just kept walking by me, turned like to walk behind me,

4179
04:45:51.119 --> 04:45:53.520
turned the corner and here talk shit
now, motherfucker talks shit now.

4180
04:45:56.639 --> 04:45:59.080
And then I just felt the locker
just boom, and I stood up,

4181
04:45:59.119 --> 04:46:02.319
like, what the fuck happened?
And I turned around and look and then

4182
04:46:02.479 --> 04:46:04.000
Vic's like was holding his cheek and
man, what the fuck you doing?

4183
04:46:04.119 --> 04:46:07.680
Jack? Will you know what the
fuck he goes? And then that's how

4184
04:46:07.720 --> 04:46:11.680
we all started. And then he
said he was gonna, you know,

4185
04:46:11.520 --> 04:46:14.799
light him up in the ring,
you know. So he was loading up

4186
04:46:14.840 --> 04:46:21.200
a guitar with like bowling pins a
mallet like he was filling it up like

4187
04:46:21.360 --> 04:46:23.560
metal ship. And then Paul found
out, and Paul's like, hey,

4188
04:46:23.759 --> 04:46:29.080
when Jack's music kids, Vic,
you take you powder. Angel will take

4189
04:46:29.119 --> 04:46:32.279
the hit with the guitar. So
when he told me that, I went

4190
04:46:32.319 --> 04:46:34.639
to Jack and say, hey Jack, things changed. Plans is that I'm

4191
04:46:34.680 --> 04:46:38.200
taking the guitar shot when your music
kids, VIC grabs is gonna take a

4192
04:46:38.240 --> 04:46:41.040
powder and take off. And he
just lost it. Fuck that. No

4193
04:46:41.759 --> 04:46:45.759
went to Paul started arguing about it, and he comes back. Paul was

4194
04:46:47.119 --> 04:46:48.560
Adam and like, hey, we're
done. This is the deal. Ae

4195
04:46:48.639 --> 04:46:52.360
just taking the guitar. So Jack
comes back to me, he goes,

4196
04:46:52.560 --> 04:46:55.200
you know, and he's just cursing
up his storm and he's like, motherfucker

4197
04:46:55.360 --> 04:46:59.439
this bullshit. And I'm like Jack, yeah, but uh yeah, man

4198
04:46:59.639 --> 04:47:00.880
fucked motherfucker. I'm gonna get him
yet, Jack, But you can you

4199
04:47:00.919 --> 04:47:04.040
do me a fan? Yeah?
Motherfucker I need Jack. Hey, can

4200
04:47:04.119 --> 04:47:07.119
you do me a fan? What
can you take all that ship out of

4201
04:47:07.159 --> 04:47:08.680
the guitar because I'm gonna get hit
with it. You know, he goes

4202
04:47:08.720 --> 04:47:11.119
not the way I got you,
I got you. But you know,

4203
04:47:11.400 --> 04:47:14.279
but even though he hit me,
he took all that ship out. He

4204
04:47:14.360 --> 04:47:18.759
taped the guitar with an electrical tape
so tight that even when he hit me

4205
04:47:18.840 --> 04:47:22.119
with the guitar, the guitar didn't
give. So it was still like getting

4206
04:47:22.200 --> 04:47:26.240
hit with like a you know,
big piece of wood. But again,

4207
04:47:26.319 --> 04:47:30.400
like I said that, that situation, and again I'm not trying to pass

4208
04:47:30.479 --> 04:47:37.799
blame, but Grimes always dug himself
in a deep hole, such a fucking

4209
04:47:38.000 --> 04:47:44.240
such a serious Grimes back there,
mister, I'm sorry, mister my fall.

4210
04:47:44.439 --> 04:47:49.240
And then he's fucking knew Jack wouldn't
go. He was scared, what

4211
04:47:49.360 --> 04:47:52.200
a bit pissed people off right,
I'm sure he would deny. Of course,

4212
04:47:53.240 --> 04:47:57.439
there's Angel saying it indeed, and
interesting to hear that he was supposed

4213
04:47:57.439 --> 04:48:02.479
to take it and said nope,
no thanks, because you know why,

4214
04:48:02.799 --> 04:48:04.840
he's fucking smart, well looking at
the end of the end of the heart

4215
04:48:04.840 --> 04:48:07.159
of Darkness when it comes to New
Jack, trying to get that revenge,

4216
04:48:07.200 --> 04:48:12.520
throwing the crimes off the confront.
So I guess before the message, I

4217
04:48:12.560 --> 04:48:15.720
want to do a pawnshop and bought
a stun gun. But yeah, I

4218
04:48:15.840 --> 04:48:18.400
was there when New Chad with New
Chad, he told me he was gonna

4219
04:48:18.439 --> 04:48:22.720
do it before it happened to his
south. What did he want to happen?

4220
04:48:22.959 --> 04:48:26.279
He told me he was in locker
room. He came to me.

4221
04:48:26.680 --> 04:48:30.639
I was ready to kill him.
He said, I'm sorry. I said,

4222
04:48:32.240 --> 04:48:36.400
you didn't even call me. I
said, almost a year as you

4223
04:48:36.400 --> 04:48:41.040
didn't even call me to see how
I was doing. This is the highest

4224
04:48:41.200 --> 04:48:48.439
elevation of any match in the history
our sport. But I mean I was

4225
04:48:48.599 --> 04:48:52.360
high, You know what I mean. I was high. So I just

4226
04:48:52.479 --> 04:48:56.279
tasted him. I tasted the ship. You're the tag tag. I can't

4227
04:48:56.279 --> 04:49:00.639
feel my legs. I said,
you ain't gonna need him on the way.

4228
04:49:07.439 --> 04:49:10.720
Vic was a foot for missing the
ring completely, which would have killed

4229
04:49:10.799 --> 04:49:12.360
him. I want him to hit
the floor. I just didn't throw him

4230
04:49:12.360 --> 04:49:18.200
hard enough. I was trying to
throw his ad to the I climbed down

4231
04:49:18.319 --> 04:49:19.959
over the yeah, and I went
up to him when he was laying the

4232
04:49:21.040 --> 04:49:26.919
ring. I told him, I
said, now we even you what.

4233
04:49:27.200 --> 04:49:33.439
First of all, the guy front
flipped like you didn't throw him anywhere.

4234
04:49:33.560 --> 04:49:34.919
You grabbed, you touched his shirt
and he went for the ride, like

4235
04:49:36.200 --> 04:49:38.159
to act like you actually threw a
three hundred fty pound guy in a way

4236
04:49:38.319 --> 04:49:41.759
you don't get it out of You
don't, but you don't fucking know.

4237
04:49:42.599 --> 04:49:47.479
But that's that was Jack, like
he would if he could latch on this

4238
04:49:47.639 --> 04:49:49.799
a version of a story that made
him seem like a homicidal maniac, which

4239
04:49:49.799 --> 04:49:56.919
I'm not saying he wasn't, but
he never ran away from those characterizations.

4240
04:49:56.959 --> 04:50:00.680
He wouldn't deny them, he would
embellish them, so that the story got

4241
04:50:00.720 --> 04:50:03.799
passed down through the years of this
guy's You know, this guy could take

4242
04:50:03.799 --> 04:50:06.840
it to a level of violence you've
never seen before, and he did,

4243
04:50:06.919 --> 04:50:11.159
you know, stabbing Gypsy Joe and
fucking stabbing that guy in that indie show

4244
04:50:11.159 --> 04:50:14.919
whatever his name was, Big Red
is depicted in the Dark Side episode.

4245
04:50:15.240 --> 04:50:18.319
That stuff really happened to the fucking
Eric Kulass incident that he got sued over.

4246
04:50:18.439 --> 04:50:21.880
That really happened. But this one, I don't know. This one.

4247
04:50:21.919 --> 04:50:22.680
I feel like, well, he
may have been really pissed at Vic

4248
04:50:22.720 --> 04:50:26.200
and probably did smack him in the
face, and probably I'm not sure he

4249
04:50:26.200 --> 04:50:30.400
showed up at that XPW show in
as much of the driver's seat as this

4250
04:50:30.759 --> 04:50:33.000
that version of events indicates. Anyway, that's what you get. You hear

4251
04:50:33.000 --> 04:50:37.279
a Stabbo. When his bookalks about
it, he kind of casts doubt on

4252
04:50:37.319 --> 04:50:41.639
the whole thing is something that knew
Jack was doing more, you know,

4253
04:50:41.159 --> 04:50:45.639
doing anything, but just trying to
bolster his character through anyway. Vic Rhymes

4254
04:50:45.680 --> 04:50:48.240
is very rarely talked about it.
There's very little interviews of him out there.

4255
04:50:48.799 --> 04:50:52.159
He's he's kind of an interesting dude. He he fell into like ministering

4256
04:50:52.240 --> 04:50:56.360
to bikers and shit. Like you
could tell he was a guy that like,

4257
04:50:56.880 --> 04:51:00.479
excuse me, ran with weird I
was outside of the business and stuff,

4258
04:51:00.520 --> 04:51:02.319
and it was kind of kind of
a fish out of water. He

4259
04:51:02.439 --> 04:51:03.919
was like basically, you know,
a backyard bump taker that found a spot

4260
04:51:03.959 --> 04:51:08.400
in the business and just kept doing
it until you know, there wasn't a

4261
04:51:08.439 --> 04:51:12.560
market for it anymore. And he
didn't make an appearance not too long ago

4262
04:51:12.759 --> 04:51:17.080
on a podcast called Extreme Memories with
Chris Klass, who was one of the

4263
04:51:17.200 --> 04:51:21.119
XPW annuncers. I think he's the
guy that you heard do that that wailing

4264
04:51:21.279 --> 04:51:25.240
sound when Vic Grimes got thrown off. You do that all the time whenever

4265
04:51:25.279 --> 04:51:29.279
there would be like a high risk
or incredibly violent bump in XPW. And

4266
04:51:29.400 --> 04:51:33.479
here Vic, that's so annoying.
I know, very annoying. I agree

4267
04:51:33.599 --> 04:51:40.119
does offer some contrition and kind of
like a go home point on the whole

4268
04:51:40.240 --> 04:51:45.759
new Jack dynamic. I do want
to say one thing about Jack, okay,

4269
04:51:45.720 --> 04:51:52.159
and hopefully if he's listening, he
won't kill me. I'm sorry.

4270
04:51:53.240 --> 04:52:00.400
I'm sorry if I heard you,
I'm sorry if anything physically, if you

4271
04:52:00.560 --> 04:52:04.040
really are hurt, and if I
left the mark, and if you're damaged

4272
04:52:04.159 --> 04:52:10.119
from anything that me and you have
ever done in the past, I'm sorry.

4273
04:52:11.000 --> 04:52:15.240
I did not mean to ever hurt
you. No shit happens, and

4274
04:52:17.720 --> 04:52:22.840
I hope you accept my apology,
all right. I don't know how to

4275
04:52:22.880 --> 04:52:29.279
say it any better than that.
After retiring, he knew Jack regularly.

4276
04:52:29.520 --> 04:52:32.119
I thought, you know, like, I mean, what about apology to

4277
04:52:32.200 --> 04:52:34.040
me to have him fucking suffer watching? I'm sure if he knew yet to

4278
04:52:34.040 --> 04:52:40.119
do this, he wor was my
apology Jesus retiring I knew Jack reclearly used

4279
04:52:40.159 --> 04:52:42.520
prescription painkillers and a series of drugs
and alcoholics. He's been very open about

4280
04:52:42.560 --> 04:52:48.319
discussing. He also had issues of
blood clots, and on May fourteenth of

4281
04:52:48.319 --> 04:52:52.319
twenty twenty one, he died of
a heart attack. That age fifty eight,

4282
04:52:52.560 --> 04:52:57.360
oh casualty of Extreme. One may
say bring us home, remembers of

4283
04:52:57.400 --> 04:53:00.759
the solar system a remedy that and
we were doing UCW Living dangerously that they

4284
04:53:00.799 --> 04:53:04.319
had something to contributed this one from
Sam dear co chairman. First off,

4285
04:53:04.360 --> 04:53:07.400
thank you for getting me through a
recent charity walk. I had to walk

4286
04:53:07.479 --> 04:53:10.720
forty five miles all around the island
where I live, which I managed to

4287
04:53:10.720 --> 04:53:12.599
doing just under fifteen hours. More
to goo, I listened a few episodes

4288
04:53:12.599 --> 04:53:15.680
of the cast on the walk,
including one of my all time favorites,

4289
04:53:15.720 --> 04:53:21.720
Uncensored ninety six in Aemania Wow,
just listen. Agreed tremendous episode by the

4290
04:53:21.759 --> 04:53:23.639
way, and heard you'll be heading
back to the land Extreme for the next

4291
04:53:23.680 --> 04:53:26.799
one. You're first sin is Born
to be Wired almost three years ago if

4292
04:53:26.799 --> 04:53:30.560
I remember correctly. Yeah, if
you don't count the terry funky CW matches,

4293
04:53:30.560 --> 04:53:33.080
probably right. I wanted to contribute
my thoughts for this show, which

4294
04:53:33.080 --> 04:53:37.560
your summarized Leslie one in the UK, which is where Sam is from the

4295
04:53:37.639 --> 04:53:41.240
spot where Rhino Gore's Lori Fullington Sandman's
wife through the table was actually censored on

4296
04:53:41.319 --> 04:53:45.360
the official release. Wow A moment
of impact. The camera cut to a

4297
04:53:45.400 --> 04:53:51.680
shot of her son's face. He
says, doesn't the BBFC no wrestling.

4298
04:53:51.720 --> 04:53:56.080
He's like, real, that's the
regulator. That's awesome. I don't know

4299
04:53:56.159 --> 04:54:03.119
why I kept gonna say, doesn't
matter, it's my sick brains. Two.

4300
04:54:03.279 --> 04:54:06.240
Dusty's brawl with theerated Steve Krino is
decent. But there's one thing that

4301
04:54:06.279 --> 04:54:10.200
doesn't need more cow bell. Yeah, well I get it, you get

4302
04:54:10.240 --> 04:54:15.400
it? Yeah, well, no, I don't get it. Oh uh

4303
04:54:15.919 --> 04:54:22.080
that's the Christopher walking uh sketch on
something. I'm glad you're hearing it.

4304
04:54:22.279 --> 04:54:26.479
More cow bell these more cow bell, pick up on that number. Three.

4305
04:54:26.599 --> 04:54:29.360
Mike austin Ver's Kid Cash is a
chaotic, violent little match. However,

4306
04:54:29.400 --> 04:54:30.919
you can see why Mike had two
knackered knees by this point in his

4307
04:54:32.040 --> 04:54:34.560
career. Or what the fuck was
the point of Kintaro Kenmora being flown in

4308
04:54:34.599 --> 04:54:37.360
for his match with Baal's mahoney,
great question, Hey, hey, hey,

4309
04:54:37.439 --> 04:54:41.200
bigger, more important question? What
was the question? Why? In

4310
04:54:41.319 --> 04:54:45.360
general? Why? And what the
fuck was five? New Jack versuviic rhymes

4311
04:54:45.400 --> 04:54:48.360
is horrific to watch, knowing what
the landing did to Nwjack and what benefit

4312
04:54:48.439 --> 04:54:52.000
did it bring in the long run, New Jack didn't live to be sixty

4313
04:54:52.200 --> 04:54:55.240
and Grimes did a few matches next
to p W before taking up residence in

4314
04:54:55.319 --> 04:54:56.840
the Where Are They Now file?
Yeah, that was it, Like people

4315
04:54:56.919 --> 04:55:00.799
saw the you know what when Vic
T. Rhymes is out there doing his

4316
04:55:00.840 --> 04:55:02.759
thing and Knwjack was out there doing
his thing. Enough, guys, we're

4317
04:55:02.759 --> 04:55:06.680
getting opportunities in spotlight and money to
take those kinds of risks that we hadn't

4318
04:55:06.680 --> 04:55:08.680
seen the other end of it,
And now we've seen that. Nobody short

4319
04:55:08.720 --> 04:55:11.159
of mc foley, who really only
made the millions he did because it was

4320
04:55:11.159 --> 04:55:14.799
also a great promo and a great
pro wrestler in his own right. In

4321
04:55:14.880 --> 04:55:18.439
addition to the risks you feeling to
take, we haven't seen anybody actually make

4322
04:55:18.560 --> 04:55:22.639
life changing money or have a sustainable
career doing that kind of style. So

4323
04:55:22.319 --> 04:55:26.639
it's over six Super Crazy versus Rhino
at times resembles a Vince Russo style sports

4324
04:55:26.720 --> 04:55:30.720
entertainment main event. The NCW one
pointless is by the time of the next

4325
04:55:30.720 --> 04:55:33.680
pay per view Rhinos TV champ anyway. Yeah, but that was also a

4326
04:55:33.720 --> 04:55:36.400
Haman thing. I wasn't really a
Russo think it was. Hayman would love

4327
04:55:36.439 --> 04:55:38.560
to have fourteen run into a main
event, and we basically saw that in

4328
04:55:38.599 --> 04:55:42.040
the wrestle Mania forty main event.
You know that's Hayman or yea. A

4329
04:55:42.119 --> 04:55:45.880
round of people come out to counteract
the last guy who ran out, and

4330
04:55:45.959 --> 04:55:49.279
you just keep going and finally our
man, Scott Michael Ferry writes in to

4331
04:55:49.439 --> 04:55:52.360
his co chairs at the very end
of w W Greed Part two, when

4332
04:55:52.400 --> 04:55:55.520
the Boss drew the name of the
next show, you'd be deep diving.

4333
04:55:55.599 --> 04:55:56.799
Part of me hope to hear him
say it would be an ECW event,

4334
04:55:56.959 --> 04:56:00.520
but I would never expect such a
stupid thing to happen on the lapsed fan.

4335
04:56:00.599 --> 04:56:03.240
JP would never do that to himself. Hell, even if he did

4336
04:56:03.360 --> 04:56:06.200
draw any Stebby pay per view,
I'd absolutely expect him to pretend he didn't

4337
04:56:07.279 --> 04:56:11.080
right back in there, I would
have known the difference. I'm sitting here

4338
04:56:11.119 --> 04:56:15.319
blind, I don't I'm I'm I'm
uh, you know, I go legit

4339
04:56:15.479 --> 04:56:18.319
here. This is proof that we're
doing an ECW show. As soon as

4340
04:56:18.360 --> 04:56:21.759
he said that this one would be
for all of us extremists, I felt

4341
04:56:21.799 --> 04:56:23.840
my heart rate increase. I haven't
thought to myself, please say living dangerously

4342
04:56:23.919 --> 04:56:27.639
two thousand but really, what were
the odds of that even happening? Why

4343
04:56:27.840 --> 04:56:30.840
say, why would you choose this
fuck? Why would you want me to

4344
04:56:30.959 --> 04:56:36.639
choose this fucking show? It's such
a shit bomb. I actually stood up

4345
04:56:36.639 --> 04:56:38.159
from my couch like a man who
just heard all of his lottery numbers get

4346
04:56:38.200 --> 04:56:41.479
called one after the other in a
winning powerball ticket. That was it.

4347
04:56:41.560 --> 04:56:45.159
I couldn't believe it finally happened.
I popped huge. Both arms were up

4348
04:56:45.200 --> 04:56:48.520
in the air. I know JP
probably couldn't be more miserable about his luck

4349
04:56:48.759 --> 04:56:52.279
or lack thereof, but I could
not be happier. I'm sure it's hard

4350
04:56:52.319 --> 04:56:56.040
to believe that anyone in the Solar
system could be excited about this. Okay,

4351
04:56:56.080 --> 04:56:57.000
so truth be told, I didn't
really feel like I just won the

4352
04:56:57.040 --> 04:57:00.919
lottery. I felt like I'd want
something greater, or something more special that

4353
04:57:00.040 --> 04:57:03.599
has tougher odds of winning the Hopper. I think you can guess why I

4354
04:57:03.720 --> 04:57:08.799
wanted to hear you talk about the
show for years. It's because I was

4355
04:57:10.319 --> 04:57:19.959
fucking there, oh, there there
when I hit my Why when I hit

4356
04:57:21.000 --> 04:57:22.159
my teens in the mid nineties,
I was fired up all the damn time,

4357
04:57:22.200 --> 04:57:25.639
like a seventy pad Ultimate Warrior,
springing to the ring and shaking the

4358
04:57:25.720 --> 04:57:27.759
ropes for about twenty hours a day. I pretty much ran on teenage angst

4359
04:57:27.799 --> 04:57:33.040
add mountain dew and being perpetually horny
for reasons I could not understand. I

4360
04:57:33.159 --> 04:57:36.680
craved violence, I needed chaos.
I felt like everything was changing. I

4361
04:57:36.799 --> 04:57:38.599
was still trying my hardest to stay
a wrestling fan, but at that point

4362
04:57:38.599 --> 04:57:41.319
in my life, I was becoming
a man, and it was becoming increasingly

4363
04:57:41.400 --> 04:57:45.240
tempting to turn my attention elsewhere because
so much of this child stuff like wrestling

4364
04:57:45.360 --> 04:57:48.200
was starting to bore me. Nostalgia
has always been my curse, and I

4365
04:57:48.279 --> 04:57:51.880
wanted per wrestling to grow up with
me so I didn't have to leave it

4366
04:57:51.959 --> 04:57:56.560
behind with other pieces of my childhood. Then one day my neighbor from across

4367
04:57:56.680 --> 04:57:59.159
the road stopped by and simply stated, you have to come over and watch

4368
04:57:59.240 --> 04:58:00.880
this new wrestling show I found.
I asked no questions, I just went,

4369
04:58:02.840 --> 04:58:06.200
and that's when I saw ECW for
the first time. I was such

4370
04:58:06.200 --> 04:58:08.759
a huge and memetal head that I
pretty much screamed when I saw a raven

4371
04:58:08.799 --> 04:58:11.240
in a Nevermore T shirt. When
Jerry Lynn walked to the ring, as

4372
04:58:11.279 --> 04:58:15.560
an old fear factory song blasted through
my neighbor's TV speakers. The music,

4373
04:58:15.639 --> 04:58:19.279
the violence, the wild crowd.
They drew me in immediately, and I

4374
04:58:19.400 --> 04:58:22.360
was all in. It felt like
I was watching something I couldn't be allowed

4375
04:58:22.400 --> 04:58:27.040
to watch, felt way too adult, felt so underground. It felt like

4376
04:58:27.080 --> 04:58:30.080
I was made It was made just
for me. We had to keep checking

4377
04:58:30.200 --> 04:58:33.000
to make sure his parents didn't come
home from their respective jobs in time to

4378
04:58:33.080 --> 04:58:36.799
catch us watching this. I instantly, I know it is like watching porn,

4379
04:58:36.880 --> 04:58:38.200
isn't it. It's like watching it. N It felt like it at

4380
04:58:38.200 --> 04:58:41.959
the time. Yeah, I instantly
had a new favorite wrestling promotion. All

4381
04:58:42.080 --> 04:58:45.360
my friends needed to see this,
my family needed to see this. My

4382
04:58:45.439 --> 04:58:48.639
grandfather needed to know what he was
wrong. And wrestlers do actually hit each

4383
04:58:48.639 --> 04:58:52.400
other. Yeah, but we said
that, man, even we talked about

4384
04:58:52.439 --> 04:58:53.880
Art Award games. What the hell
was the appeal of CZW and these big

4385
04:58:53.919 --> 04:58:57.560
time death match promotions. I'm like, Wow, these fans just want a

4386
04:58:57.720 --> 04:59:03.599
version of wrestling that they can show
to people who think they're basically disabled for

4387
04:59:03.720 --> 04:59:08.560
liking wrestling and saying, look,
how could they fake that? Well,

4388
04:59:08.560 --> 04:59:11.080
I'll tell you what you may you
may well better not be fake. I

4389
04:59:11.080 --> 04:59:14.479
don't. I don't. But here's
the bottom line there, son, I

4390
04:59:14.520 --> 04:59:18.080
don't give you. That's what you
miss. I don't give a shiet I

4391
04:59:18.119 --> 04:59:19.880
don't care. Here's the guy hit
out with a fucking trash can. All

4392
04:59:19.919 --> 04:59:22.919
right, well forget it. I
take your back everything I ever said about

4393
04:59:22.919 --> 04:59:25.159
wrestling. Are you out of your
fucking mind? You know what? You

4394
04:59:25.279 --> 04:59:29.200
know what? You're still a fucking
idiot for what guys, because they're actually

4395
04:59:29.240 --> 04:59:33.319
hurting each other. If they're faking
it, you're dumb. If they're not

4396
04:59:33.439 --> 04:59:37.959
faking it, you're dumb. It
doesn't matter. You're fucking dumb. What

4397
04:59:37.040 --> 04:59:41.439
we talk about here at TLF.
It's a permanent scarlet letter. Get over

4398
04:59:41.560 --> 04:59:44.400
here. I'm going to give you
some more. Do you think you can

4399
04:59:44.479 --> 04:59:47.880
do about it? The more pathetic
you are, get over the knee.

4400
04:59:48.319 --> 04:59:52.080
I could prove it now. Whenever
some random kid in the school bus that

4401
04:59:52.119 --> 04:59:53.520
I wasn't even friends with just had
to let me know wrestling was fake,

4402
04:59:53.720 --> 04:59:56.240
my response was to ask if they
had ever heard of E c W.

4403
04:59:57.400 --> 05:00:00.799
In the late nineties, both w
TOW fw AW were giving us some of

4404
05:00:00.840 --> 05:00:03.799
the all time memorable stories, matches
and angles to ever happen in pro wrestling,

4405
05:00:03.919 --> 05:00:06.479
but I actually started watching them with
a more critical eye. Of course,

4406
05:00:06.479 --> 05:00:07.599
I was still a fan, but
I had trained myself to see them

4407
05:00:07.639 --> 05:00:11.959
as being phonies. Compared to ECW, the matches didn't hit as hard for

4408
05:00:11.080 --> 05:00:15.360
me. The Reggie language and content
felt so toned down by comparison. It's

4409
05:00:15.360 --> 05:00:18.680
silly to think about in hindsight,
but I was just a rabbit ECW mark

4410
05:00:18.720 --> 05:00:21.959
who was blinded by Paul's vision,
much like most of his wrestlers were.

4411
05:00:22.200 --> 05:00:23.439
I know what JP is thinking,
but in my defense, we were all

4412
05:00:23.520 --> 05:00:29.720
idiots as teenagers there. I think
I think everyone's grandfather just said that,

4413
05:00:29.880 --> 05:00:33.119
I know you're not channeling JP when
you say they you're channeling your own grandpa

4414
05:00:33.360 --> 05:00:37.400
exactly. There came a time in
the summer of two thousand when I asked

4415
05:00:37.439 --> 05:00:40.400
my mom and her boyfriend to sit
in the living room with me so I

4416
05:00:40.439 --> 05:00:42.040
could show them something cool. I
bet you thought would be an ECW tape.

4417
05:00:42.119 --> 05:00:45.919
It I got down on the floor
in front of the TV and stopped

4418
05:00:45.080 --> 05:00:51.439
popped strangle Mania two. That's the
deathmatch tape and the VHS player. For

4419
05:00:51.479 --> 05:00:52.680
those who don't know, this was
an old tape of FMW matches with the

4420
05:00:52.720 --> 05:00:56.799
insane clown Posse providing insanely inappropriate commentary
as if they were ringside. We talked

4421
05:00:56.799 --> 05:01:02.599
about this during a lapsed funk and
with Mick Foley in Japan. I spent

4422
05:01:02.680 --> 05:01:04.360
half the time trying to convince her
that wrestling this violent, it just had

4423
05:01:04.360 --> 05:01:07.319
to be legit. You can't fake
this. Something about watching this type of

4424
05:01:07.400 --> 05:01:11.080
wrestling made me feel like I was
like, it was cool to be a

4425
05:01:11.119 --> 05:01:12.840
fan. That's a big mistake,
right there, Scott Michael, That's a

4426
05:01:12.959 --> 05:01:17.080
big mistake. Yeah, I didn't
have to feel embarrassed by it anymore.

4427
05:01:17.159 --> 05:01:21.080
Yes, you did even more so
still still do as you'd expect. My

4428
05:01:21.159 --> 05:01:22.680
mom was not a wrestling fan,
so she absolutely did not fucking care.

4429
05:01:23.119 --> 05:01:26.799
She could not have cared less.
I've told the story. I remember bringing

4430
05:01:26.880 --> 05:01:29.319
a tape of November Remember ninety seven, the first pay per view I could

4431
05:01:29.400 --> 05:01:32.240
order in my area, to a
friend's house who was kind of like marginal

4432
05:01:32.240 --> 05:01:34.720
wrestling fan. Had the NWWW World
Tour Game. So I felt like was

4433
05:01:34.759 --> 05:01:37.880
a could possibly be convinced to care
about wrestling if he only would see this

4434
05:01:37.959 --> 05:01:41.279
hardcore kind of promotion, that kind
of expanded the boundaries of what you thought

4435
05:01:41.279 --> 05:01:45.360
wrestling was, and they sat there
like what like, oh this sounded cool?

4436
05:01:45.520 --> 05:01:48.000
Like I felt so stupid. I
was like, I really thought I

4437
05:01:48.080 --> 05:01:52.479
was going to make them wrestling fan. This is this is this is the

4438
05:01:52.560 --> 05:01:57.319
response that that completely destroys anything.
He goes to the go why would you

4439
05:01:57.360 --> 05:02:03.479
think I'm something like that, even
if it's unstved, Why would you think

4440
05:02:03.520 --> 05:02:07.279
that I'd want to watch this with
you. It's really not. It's crazy,

4441
05:02:07.439 --> 05:02:11.159
Like, oh fuck, I mean
it, Oh look at that.

4442
05:02:11.240 --> 05:02:15.880
Oh wow, I guess so bad, soapathic. I guess it's crazy.

4443
05:02:15.159 --> 05:02:22.040
But you know, I don't know
what do you want that's going through those

4444
05:02:22.040 --> 05:02:26.360
ECW crowds, these rabbit maniacs.
They think this is like something that's more

4445
05:02:26.400 --> 05:02:29.599
respectable than what w w F was
doing or had done when they were kids.

4446
05:02:30.040 --> 05:02:34.479
And I'm like, guys, it's
it's worse. It put it puts

4447
05:02:34.520 --> 05:02:37.080
you in even lower regard from the
people. You think this is going to

4448
05:02:37.200 --> 05:02:41.439
impress, Yeah, it's it's not
gonna listen, listen, this is the

4449
05:02:41.720 --> 05:02:45.159
this is the thing. Give it
to them. Fuck this, Okay,

4450
05:02:48.319 --> 05:02:53.200
it doesn't matter. Let's go what
you show them? People who don't respect

4451
05:02:53.240 --> 05:03:00.279
wrestling are still gonna think less of
you. Bottom line, all right,

4452
05:03:00.840 --> 05:03:07.959
you can show them all. It's
like one in a million where somebody is

4453
05:03:07.959 --> 05:03:11.959
actually going to be interesting. What's
your best bet? Just shut the fuck

4454
05:03:11.040 --> 05:03:17.279
up, just you know, your
best bet is try to find you a

4455
05:03:17.400 --> 05:03:21.799
fan shirt in the wild. Try
to find some visual indication that someone's wrestling

4456
05:03:21.840 --> 05:03:25.799
fan without you having to bring it
up. Don't, don't out yourself.

4457
05:03:26.799 --> 05:03:32.720
It's not worth it. So true, all right, it's the one it's

4458
05:03:32.759 --> 05:03:37.400
the one thing. It's the one
thing every wrestling fan should be ashamed of,

4459
05:03:38.279 --> 05:03:44.360
is the fact that they're a fan
of wrestling. Every fucking I'm not

4460
05:03:44.560 --> 05:03:48.639
joking you're going to say is going
to make it so much worse. Yep,

4461
05:03:49.000 --> 05:03:56.159
I am listen this This podcast has
been a game changer for my for

4462
05:03:56.279 --> 05:04:03.000
my life. Okay, no joke. It's still can't hurt about it to

4463
05:04:03.080 --> 05:04:07.840
fucking say. When they when they
asked the question, what's your podcast about?

4464
05:04:07.279 --> 05:04:12.200
About it? I like, I
get through the pro wrestling part as

4465
05:04:12.240 --> 05:04:18.799
fast as possible to talk about Jack's
credentials hesitation. You should get right to

4466
05:04:18.840 --> 05:04:22.240
your TC instead. I mean that's
actually you know, you can say that's

4467
05:04:22.319 --> 05:04:26.959
yours, right, like you run
just talk about that one. It's still

4468
05:04:26.959 --> 05:04:32.200
about wrestling. That's true. I
could lie. I have lie before.

4469
05:04:32.599 --> 05:04:34.639
No, No, that feels worse, you know, I say it's about

4470
05:04:34.639 --> 05:04:38.680
sports and entertainment. That's not a
lie. I'm not a lie of But

4471
05:04:42.799 --> 05:04:45.000
my mom did not care. She
could not have cared less. She just

4472
05:04:45.119 --> 05:04:48.759
humored me because I'm her son,
and she liked that. I still asked

4473
05:04:48.759 --> 05:04:52.040
her to hang out. Important The
important thing that I took away from this

4474
05:04:52.599 --> 05:04:56.119
was that she sat there and watched
the whole thing with me without complaining.

4475
05:04:56.720 --> 05:05:00.240
Sounds like wrestle mommy to me boss, just a little bit, Yeah,

4476
05:05:00.240 --> 05:05:02.919
it does. Yeah. I don't
remember exactly how long after this night that

4477
05:05:03.000 --> 05:05:06.599
had happened, but as soon as
I saw the episode of ECWTV when they

4478
05:05:06.599 --> 05:05:08.240
announced there would be a pay per
view in Danbury, Connecticut, I couldn't

4479
05:05:08.319 --> 05:05:12.000
contain my excitement. I immediately got
the courage to ask her for tickets as

4480
05:05:12.000 --> 05:05:15.680
an early Christmas gift, and I
warned her that it would be violent,

4481
05:05:15.000 --> 05:05:22.799
but since she thought stranglemania, since
she got through stranglemania without being noticeably disgusted

4482
05:05:22.840 --> 05:05:26.400
by the action of the language,
that's amazing to me. This would be

4483
05:05:26.680 --> 05:05:30.240
nothing as for lack of a better
word, extreme, I had never gotten

4484
05:05:30.240 --> 05:05:33.959
to attend an ECW event before.
I just started looking for work after I

4485
05:05:34.040 --> 05:05:37.040
graduated high school in the summer of
two thousand and I had started my first

4486
05:05:37.040 --> 05:05:40.919
semester of college at Three Rivers that
fall, so I didn't have the money

4487
05:05:40.959 --> 05:05:44.040
to buy tickets to anything. I
could barely afford to put gas in my

4488
05:05:44.159 --> 05:05:48.319
Z twenty four. My mom was
always the greatest when it came to surprising

4489
05:05:48.400 --> 05:05:51.080
me. As I'm sure you'll remember, I'm the guy whose mother took a

4490
05:05:51.159 --> 05:05:55.159
day off from work working doubles at
the prison to break me out of school

4491
05:05:55.159 --> 05:05:56.959
at the end of the school year
to see Ghostbusters two on opening Day.

4492
05:05:57.000 --> 05:06:03.119
That's right, true. So guess
when I found out I was going to

4493
05:06:03.159 --> 05:06:06.919
an ECW pay per view? You
guessed it that fucking day, after she

4494
05:06:07.000 --> 05:06:08.360
already told me she wouldn't be able
to get tickets for me or be able

4495
05:06:08.400 --> 05:06:11.279
to take me. I had never
been more excited to go to a wrestling

4496
05:06:11.319 --> 05:06:15.919
show in my life. She picked
me up from my grandparents place in Griswold

4497
05:06:15.000 --> 05:06:18.279
and her dark Blue nineteen ninety seven
Ford Explorer and we took that long ride

4498
05:06:18.560 --> 05:06:22.919
toward her boyfriends in Stratford to be
closer to the venue. On the way

4499
05:06:22.959 --> 05:06:26.599
there, she ended up detouring and
brought me to the old Milford Amusement Center

4500
05:06:26.639 --> 05:06:32.119
where I could play arcade games for
a while to kill a couple hours with

4501
05:06:32.240 --> 05:06:33.959
my add She knew that video games
were one of the few things I could

4502
05:06:33.959 --> 05:06:37.759
easily focus on. It was the
perfect way to keep me distracted. Any

4503
05:06:37.799 --> 05:06:41.080
other day, however, all I
could think about was living dangerously well.

4504
05:06:41.080 --> 05:06:44.360
I can't remember the name of the
restaurant all three of us went out for

4505
05:06:44.400 --> 05:06:45.959
stakes just before the show. I
still remember what I ate, though,

4506
05:06:45.959 --> 05:06:49.040
and I'll even admit, shamefully that
I ordered a steak medium well, because

4507
05:06:49.040 --> 05:06:52.720
that's how my grandparents used to order
burgers and steaks for me when I was

4508
05:06:52.759 --> 05:06:55.040
young, In case she didn't already
know I was an idiot back then.

4509
05:06:56.759 --> 05:07:00.720
Burger. You know, it's funny. I don't know if this is I

4510
05:07:00.959 --> 05:07:03.400
I like my burgers different than like
my steak, like to an extreme difference.

4511
05:07:03.840 --> 05:07:07.759
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not
with that, Like I like a

4512
05:07:07.880 --> 05:07:11.319
medium, but I'm not with that
hole. Like if you get it well

4513
05:07:11.400 --> 05:07:15.319
done, bro, it's like you
shut the fuck up. Like, well,

4514
05:07:15.400 --> 05:07:17.720
when it comes to steaks, I
want to, I do want to.

4515
05:07:19.639 --> 05:07:23.080
I like it raw pretty much raw, you know. I like I

4516
05:07:23.279 --> 05:07:30.720
like a nice uh uh basically like
a quick sear it like like very crusty.

4517
05:07:30.799 --> 05:07:36.279
But then like fucking I want red
red but burgers, well done burgers

4518
05:07:36.319 --> 05:07:38.040
that are a little too pink,
a little too cold kind of freak me

4519
05:07:38.080 --> 05:07:45.759
out. I don't I don't like. I don't like juicy burgers because they

4520
05:07:45.360 --> 05:07:49.840
make it harder to eat because like
all the juice comes in and gets soaked.

4521
05:07:52.479 --> 05:07:53.919
I don't like that, and they
fall apart easier, like I want.

4522
05:07:55.599 --> 05:08:00.279
I want a very firm patty of
beef. I don't want it to

4523
05:08:00.360 --> 05:08:06.360
be. My dad looks at me
like I'm a fucking like like like I've

4524
05:08:06.439 --> 05:08:08.639
just killed a person every time.
It's funny, even though it's been years

4525
05:08:10.680 --> 05:08:11.279
that I've been doing it. Like. He just looks at me like,

4526
05:08:11.759 --> 05:08:15.119
are you serious? Meat? You
want it? Well? You want a

4527
05:08:15.200 --> 05:08:18.159
medium? Well, yeah, I
don't want any fucking juice coming out.

4528
05:08:19.240 --> 05:08:23.560
He's like so disappointed. I know, yeah, that's I'm I'm off that.

4529
05:08:23.840 --> 05:08:26.799
Like, you know, people feel
like they have to be embarrassed for

4530
05:08:26.840 --> 05:08:29.599
all the eat their steak. It's
like, dude, like, we're not

4531
05:08:29.720 --> 05:08:33.919
all trying to listen. Listen each
your steak the way eat listen, eat

4532
05:08:33.959 --> 05:08:38.240
your steak. However it tastes best
for you, just like anyone who has

4533
05:08:38.279 --> 05:08:41.880
a problem with it, like needs
to find other things to focus on.

4534
05:08:41.520 --> 05:08:45.599
I know exactly as an eighteen year
old adult, I knew. I know

4535
05:08:45.720 --> 05:08:48.040
there's no excuse for this, but
I spend most of the time at the

4536
05:08:48.040 --> 05:08:52.040
table just talking to them about ECW, the wrestlers, the feuds, the

4537
05:08:52.080 --> 05:08:55.400
insane shit I'd seen on TV these
past few years. They needed to know

4538
05:08:55.520 --> 05:08:56.919
what they were walking into. Even
though I didn't know much of the card.

4539
05:08:56.959 --> 05:09:00.240
I don't think the wrestlers even knew
much of the card. That night,

4540
05:09:00.439 --> 05:09:03.479
I tried to convince until they got
to the building. I tried to

4541
05:09:03.520 --> 05:09:07.720
convince myself that maybe they would be
invested if they knew some stuff about No,

4542
05:09:07.919 --> 05:09:11.000
they know, no mistake, they
knew some stuff about this. The

4543
05:09:11.080 --> 05:09:18.520
more because because now because now here's
the thing. Now you've exposed how much

4544
05:09:18.599 --> 05:09:23.599
you actually know. Now they realize
there's a problem. Now they're not just

4545
05:09:23.680 --> 05:09:27.200
taking you because this thing that amuses
you. Now they realize that this is

4546
05:09:27.319 --> 05:09:30.680
going to be like something that you
think about all the time every day for

4547
05:09:30.720 --> 05:09:33.919
the rest of your life. This
is this is this is a process.

4548
05:09:37.119 --> 05:09:40.959
I don't get that into it.
If it's and they wanted to be a

4549
05:09:41.040 --> 05:09:45.560
phase, yeah, they need correct
all right, that's a good T shirt.

4550
05:09:45.599 --> 05:09:48.040
They need it to be a phase. It's okay with a wrestling it

4551
05:09:51.560 --> 05:09:56.000
all right because they because they realize
if it's not a phase, their lives

4552
05:09:56.119 --> 05:10:00.680
just go hard. They have to
live their whole lives with this exposeure out

4553
05:10:00.720 --> 05:10:03.520
there that they raised a kid who's
a huge fan of pro wrestling. Ye

4554
05:10:04.119 --> 05:10:07.560
yep, but that they have to
talk, They have to like, oh,

4555
05:10:07.599 --> 05:10:14.479
what is he into? Well,
m well, you know, he

4556
05:10:14.840 --> 05:10:17.520
he he's into pro wrestling, you
know, I know, I don't know.

4557
05:10:18.759 --> 05:10:22.319
I feel I can't feel myself.
Ye oh my god, I feel

4558
05:10:22.360 --> 05:10:27.240
for him right now. Yep.
I'm so glad that my daughter stopped.

4559
05:10:29.599 --> 05:10:33.360
It's a great thing. Somehow I
knew better. Just imagine me looking grotesquely

4560
05:10:33.479 --> 05:10:38.319
thin with a pimply face and middle
part mushroom cut, wearing an oversized panted

4561
05:10:38.360 --> 05:10:41.759
T shirt and ripped up jeans,
legs bouncing non stop under the table with

4562
05:10:41.840 --> 05:10:47.200
excitement, telling them all about amazing
athletes like Rob van Dam and Jerry Lynn,

4563
05:10:47.479 --> 05:10:49.759
not knowing they were actually about to
be stuck watching job or asque clowns

4564
05:10:49.799 --> 05:10:56.560
like Pitbull Number one and Bill Wiles
instead and salt Well standing in line to

4565
05:10:56.560 --> 05:10:59.439
get into the building. I couldn't
help it envision how the night would play

4566
05:10:59.479 --> 05:11:02.439
out, imagine and taking in the
energy from the crowd to get myself even

4567
05:11:02.520 --> 05:11:06.599
more hyped up, the chills i'd
feel seeing my favorites walk through the curtain

4568
05:11:06.639 --> 05:11:10.400
as their entrance music played, seeing
them hit their signature moves live for the

4569
05:11:10.479 --> 05:11:14.200
first time, the loud echo of
out of shaped bodies bouncing off the canvas

4570
05:11:14.479 --> 05:11:18.000
after being dropped through a table that
they may have been lit on fire.

4571
05:11:18.720 --> 05:11:22.880
But when I walked into the O'Neill
Center, everything immediately fell off. It

4572
05:11:22.040 --> 05:11:26.439
wasn't like I had anticipated. These
didn't feel like the fans I had imagined.

4573
05:11:26.439 --> 05:11:30.400
The energy felt so low looking back
on it. Maybe they knew something

4574
05:11:30.759 --> 05:11:33.279
about the state of the company that
I didn't. Maybe I had just set

4575
05:11:33.360 --> 05:11:37.759
my expectations too high. Maybe I
couldn't let myself see that the ECW I

4576
05:11:37.799 --> 05:11:41.759
fell in love with was not the
same ECW I was about to see that

4577
05:11:41.919 --> 05:11:45.799
night, or maybe it's just timpally
because we weren't in Philly. I wasn't

4578
05:11:45.799 --> 05:11:48.159
going to let that affect my mood
though. I was just excited that I

4579
05:11:48.200 --> 05:11:52.599
could be there. My mom bought
me a signed event poster that felt like

4580
05:11:52.639 --> 05:11:56.799
a piece of paper staple to some
flimsy styrofoam with wrestler signatures all over it.

4581
05:11:56.000 --> 05:11:59.240
It got a little banged up over
the years, but I actually still

4582
05:11:59.240 --> 05:12:02.040
have it in storage. If I
remember correctly, I believe the show was

4583
05:12:02.080 --> 05:12:04.919
sponsored by a CW's Hardcore Revolution video
game. I was so obsessed when I

4584
05:12:06.000 --> 05:12:07.319
saw they were getting a video game
that I used to go to my local

4585
05:12:07.439 --> 05:12:11.159
mall at least twice a week as
power walk right over to EB Games to

4586
05:12:11.240 --> 05:12:15.919
annoy them by asking when the ECW
game was coming out. Oh my god,

4587
05:12:17.000 --> 05:12:18.279
no one could give me a release
date. They would just keep saying

4588
05:12:18.319 --> 05:12:22.720
they don't have it, and I'd
come back and oh, that's also that's

4589
05:12:22.840 --> 05:12:26.560
also like you know, when when
you because like hisse, here's the thing.

4590
05:12:26.319 --> 05:12:30.279
As a wrestling fan asking about a
video game, you just want to

4591
05:12:30.319 --> 05:12:33.360
do it once, get the game
and get out of there. But they

4592
05:12:33.400 --> 05:12:37.639
don't have it. It means you
have to admit yourself at least twice to

4593
05:12:37.720 --> 05:12:41.400
them coming back. You get because
you have to come out as friends now

4594
05:12:41.479 --> 05:12:48.319
because I had to. I pre
ordered No Mercy for the UH for N

4595
05:12:48.400 --> 05:12:52.880
sixty four and they didn't know the
date it was coming out. God,

4596
05:12:53.680 --> 05:12:56.639
And so I just kept going back
like every week like is it here?

4597
05:12:57.560 --> 05:13:00.639
Do you guys have it in yet? And it's like I have to keep

4598
05:13:02.680 --> 05:13:11.599
I mean, I'm looking like a
completely helpless like devian. Then one day

4599
05:13:11.599 --> 05:13:18.040
it was there. Then one day
it's there and I can take my game

4600
05:13:18.080 --> 05:13:19.880
home. But like at the first, it's like you just keep going,

4601
05:13:22.040 --> 05:13:26.040
it keep going, and you look
like a like a fucking like a problem,

4602
05:13:26.240 --> 05:13:30.520
a walking breathing another thing. Kids
these days won't know the first thing

4603
05:13:30.560 --> 05:13:34.680
about they download the game and Animity
they have it shipped to them in Animinity,

4604
05:13:36.479 --> 05:13:40.279
none of that. Yeah, they
would just keep saying they don't have

4605
05:13:40.360 --> 05:13:41.000
it, and I'd come back in
a few more days to do the same

4606
05:13:41.040 --> 05:13:44.439
thing all over again. It's wild
that now I can just pre order any

4607
05:13:44.479 --> 05:13:47.000
game, hey speak of the Devil, any game I want, and have

4608
05:13:47.040 --> 05:13:48.919
it on my doorstep on his release
day, or even downloaded, installed and

4609
05:13:49.000 --> 05:13:52.560
ready to play by the time I
get home from work. Kids these days

4610
05:13:52.599 --> 05:13:56.200
will never be able to appreciate the
thrill of the hunt. I had no

4611
05:13:56.319 --> 05:14:00.520
idea what a text bullo upe match
was, but I remember immediately feeling embarrassed

4612
05:14:00.680 --> 05:14:03.639
that I was making my mom want
a Texas bullshit match. Yes, there

4613
05:14:03.720 --> 05:14:07.159
is no way that some long rope
with a cowbell on it was going to

4614
05:14:07.200 --> 05:14:08.959
be used to give us something violent
or memorable. Boy was I wrong.

4615
05:14:10.159 --> 05:14:12.439
I'll never forget the image of a
bloody dusty out there in jeans flipping the

4616
05:14:12.479 --> 05:14:15.200
double bird. It may be my
favorite memory of old dust, not to

4617
05:14:15.240 --> 05:14:18.959
be confused with gold dust, because
at that point in my life I had

4618
05:14:18.040 --> 05:14:22.000
never seen him like that before.
I just wanted him to murder Steve Corino.

4619
05:14:22.159 --> 05:14:25.400
But when the match was over,
something instantly clicked and I suddenly appreciated

4620
05:14:25.479 --> 05:14:27.880
him. Even after I stopped watching
wrestling and then came back many years later,

4621
05:14:27.919 --> 05:14:33.200
I could not see Karina without immediately
thinking about that night every single time.

4622
05:14:33.520 --> 05:14:36.319
In the end, it was really
just some brawl that wasn't anything special,

4623
05:14:36.360 --> 05:14:37.919
but it was special to me because
of how it made me feel in

4624
05:14:38.000 --> 05:14:41.840
those moments. Remember when I said
I was a metal head earlier, while

4625
05:14:41.880 --> 05:14:45.759
I also fucking loved Ice Cube back
then, and hearing Natural Born Kills blaring

4626
05:14:45.799 --> 05:14:48.560
over the arena speakers repeatedly was an
absolute highlight. It was something I couldn't

4627
05:14:48.560 --> 05:14:52.560
wait to experience inside the building.
That's when I found myself just losing my

4628
05:14:52.639 --> 05:14:55.560
shit in my seat after Jack and
Grimes fell off of the scaffold. I

4629
05:14:55.560 --> 05:14:59.880
didn't quite understand how serious that actually
was. I figured that was no,

4630
05:15:00.000 --> 05:15:02.959
nothing compared to what they did on
a regular basis. I felt like Jack

4631
05:15:03.040 --> 05:15:04.840
was always jumping off of balconies.
Then again, from my seat, I

4632
05:15:04.880 --> 05:15:08.119
couldn't exactly see how they landed.
I mostly kept glancing over my mother's face

4633
05:15:08.119 --> 05:15:11.200
to see if I could observe any
sign that she was getting annoyed whatever.

4634
05:15:11.319 --> 05:15:15.799
His song started over again. That's
funny how you're like self conscious about the

4635
05:15:15.919 --> 05:15:21.279
level of enjoyment from the non fans
you dragged to the thing. That's that's

4636
05:15:21.360 --> 05:15:23.520
quite a pressure to feel the whole
time. Yep, yep. I know

4637
05:15:23.599 --> 05:15:26.880
it's going to be the moment that
is most remembered, or probably the only

4638
05:15:26.919 --> 05:15:29.439
thing people remembered that happened on this
show. But it was in that moment

4639
05:15:29.520 --> 05:15:32.959
that I vividly recalled truly taking in
the atmosphere, because that was the closest

4640
05:15:32.959 --> 05:15:36.040
I ever got to feeling like I
was in that Rabbit ECW crowd I had

4641
05:15:36.040 --> 05:15:40.000
fallen in love with on my TV
screen. When the WW network first rolled

4642
05:15:40.000 --> 05:15:41.119
out, this was the first show
I went looking for. Not only is

4643
05:15:41.159 --> 05:15:45.319
it crazy that there was so much
I'd forgotten from that night for good reason,

4644
05:15:45.680 --> 05:15:48.840
but it was then that I also
realized how much of ECW's appealed to

4645
05:15:48.919 --> 05:15:53.000
me was the music. That's right
amen. Without it, some of those

4646
05:15:53.040 --> 05:15:56.840
shows feel and sound like absolute ass. We're watching new Jack Verse Grimes.

4647
05:15:56.880 --> 05:15:59.959
Back at that time, I felt
like the ending had to have been edited.

4648
05:16:00.240 --> 05:16:02.319
There's no way they got them out
of there that fast. On the

4649
05:16:02.439 --> 05:16:03.639
night of the show, I felt
like they were lying on the floor for

4650
05:16:03.720 --> 05:16:07.560
several minutes. Then I found a
clip of the unedited footage with the original

4651
05:16:07.639 --> 05:16:10.400
music and everything, and it still
fell too short. My brain really had

4652
05:16:10.439 --> 05:16:12.360
me believing that time stood still for
so long that my mom had natural born

4653
05:16:12.439 --> 05:16:15.439
kill as memorized by the time they
got those two out of there. Even

4654
05:16:15.439 --> 05:16:18.680
though I didn't get to see a
lot of my favorites and action Like pretty

4655
05:16:18.720 --> 05:16:21.279
much everyone I told my mom about
at the dinner table, I still got

4656
05:16:21.319 --> 05:16:23.439
to see Mike Awsam do an awesome
bomb through her table, as well as

4657
05:16:23.479 --> 05:16:27.080
guys like Rhino Super Crazy, Masato
Tanaka, and of course a poly promo

4658
05:16:27.159 --> 05:16:30.560
that was still not as offensive as
knowing people paid money to be in the

4659
05:16:30.599 --> 05:16:34.479
building and they couldn't turn the show
off when Simon Diamond King Almost importantly,

4660
05:16:34.520 --> 05:16:37.520
it was another memory with my mom
that I will never forget. But imagine

4661
05:16:37.560 --> 05:16:41.080
me hyping up rvd's personality and athleticism
just to see him get carried out while

4662
05:16:41.080 --> 05:16:45.560
wearing sweatpants with the surgical booton at
the end of the show. So I

4663
05:16:45.639 --> 05:16:48.240
ward asked my mom what the entering
highlight for her was that night. I'm

4664
05:16:48.240 --> 05:16:51.799
sure the only thing she can remember
was seeing Sandman come out to that one

4665
05:16:51.880 --> 05:16:55.080
Metallica song she knows. Another reason
why the show holds such a special place

4666
05:16:55.119 --> 05:16:56.639
in my heart is because not only
was this the last wrestling show we would

4667
05:16:56.639 --> 05:17:00.599
go to together, but it would
also be the last wrestling show before I

4668
05:17:00.639 --> 05:17:03.799
became a lapsed fan for a long
time. Obviously, this wasn't too long

4669
05:17:03.840 --> 05:17:07.599
before both ECW and WW would go
under, and WW would just couldn't do

4670
05:17:07.720 --> 05:17:10.599
enough to make me care. I
was so bummed about my two favorite wrestling

4671
05:17:10.599 --> 05:17:12.279
companies folding that I didn't even want
to think about watching wrestling ever again.

4672
05:17:12.560 --> 05:17:15.400
I didn't even hear about One Night
Stand in two thousand and five until almost

4673
05:17:15.439 --> 05:17:19.479
ten years after it happened. That's
why so lapsed that The next wrestling event

4674
05:17:19.479 --> 05:17:22.680
I have attended was a RAW at
Hartford in twenty fourteen, when the woman

4675
05:17:22.720 --> 05:17:25.720
I was dating at the time bought
me a ticket to hang with her at

4676
05:17:25.720 --> 05:17:27.560
the show. Imagine that, fourteen
years after my last live wrestling event,

4677
05:17:27.599 --> 05:17:30.759
I finally got to see RVD in
a match that I saw two younger Roads

4678
05:17:30.759 --> 05:17:33.119
in action, including a brother I
had never heard of before, and that

4679
05:17:33.200 --> 05:17:37.720
all it took was hearing Jericho's music
hit for a surprise return to instantly make

4680
05:17:37.799 --> 05:17:40.880
me feel like a teenager all over
again. That was the moment that would

4681
05:17:40.880 --> 05:17:44.000
bring me back hard for several years. Just like with ECW, all it

4682
05:17:44.080 --> 05:17:48.759
took was the right music to make
me feel something anyway. That's why ACW

4683
05:17:48.880 --> 05:17:52.680
Living Dangerously two thousand is important to
me, and I'm probably the only person

4684
05:17:52.720 --> 05:17:55.639
who has had such fond memories of
what is otherwise a show that nobody else

4685
05:17:55.639 --> 05:17:59.040
would ever watch unless they had to
for a college podcast. Finally, I

4686
05:17:59.159 --> 05:18:02.000
know my mom will never hear this, but I was fortunate enough to have

4687
05:18:02.119 --> 05:18:03.880
someone in my life who took me
to wrestling events she wasn't interested in,

4688
05:18:04.279 --> 05:18:07.959
or other shows she would absolutely hate, no matter the cost, because seeing

4689
05:18:08.000 --> 05:18:11.919
me smile meant that much to her, and because she got to spend time

4690
05:18:11.959 --> 05:18:14.599
with me. Believe me, she
doesn't remember anything about the wrestling shows we've

4691
05:18:14.599 --> 05:18:17.119
went to, but she can always
tell you the details of our time together

4692
05:18:17.360 --> 05:18:18.759
when we went to these events.
Hell, one time I saw she was

4693
05:18:18.799 --> 05:18:21.759
watching Dark Side of the Ring and
it was the New Jack episode, and

4694
05:18:21.799 --> 05:18:23.080
when they showed the clip of the
Danbury incident, I told her we were

4695
05:18:23.080 --> 05:18:26.520
there, and she replied, wow, really she doesn't even remember that fall.

4696
05:18:26.759 --> 05:18:30.400
Of course not we didn't wait,
we were lying. We went to

4697
05:18:30.479 --> 05:18:33.400
wrestling missed. I would have missed
so much without her. Now I do

4698
05:18:33.520 --> 05:18:37.119
well enough that I still try to
return the favor whenever I can, all

4699
05:18:37.119 --> 05:18:38.840
these years later, by buying her
things like tickets to concerts, I know

4700
05:18:38.919 --> 05:18:41.400
she'd like them out of the cost
just to see her happy. Now,

4701
05:18:41.439 --> 05:18:45.479
she struggles to surprise me anymore because
I'll never again have to ask her for

4702
05:18:45.560 --> 05:18:48.319
anything. She's done more than enough
for me already. She's the reason I

4703
05:18:48.360 --> 05:18:51.919
can tell you all about of this
or about that one ghostbuster summer. My

4704
05:18:52.000 --> 05:18:53.959
birthday is coming up middle of July. We'll at least let her think she's

4705
05:18:55.000 --> 05:18:57.040
surprising me with a new TV.
Let's just hope she doesn't figure out that

4706
05:18:57.080 --> 05:19:00.919
her husband may have somehow ended up
using Mike card that happens to look exactly

4707
05:19:02.080 --> 05:19:06.319
like hers. That's funny, you
two legends. However, did manage to

4708
05:19:06.439 --> 05:19:10.279
surprise me with a perfect birthday gift
this year? Even if it costs JP

4709
05:19:10.520 --> 05:19:14.119
something you can't put a price on. So I took a I mean,

4710
05:19:14.159 --> 05:19:15.479
it's taking a piece of my soul
away. So thank you for that,

4711
05:19:15.840 --> 05:19:22.599
thank you for the memories, and
thank you for Steve Amania Scott. And

4712
05:19:22.720 --> 05:19:26.319
with that we hit the ECW Little
Universally two thousand death toll. Yeah.

4713
05:19:27.599 --> 05:19:33.599
It's uh, it seems small,
but I think I think I remember being

4714
05:19:33.759 --> 05:19:44.599
small. I have four, Well, I have four Dusty Awesome, Mike

4715
05:19:44.680 --> 05:19:51.720
Hogan, Balls, Mahoney and the
New Jack. Yeah. And I think

4716
05:19:51.759 --> 05:19:56.360
that's it. Yeah, that's about
the list man. That's crazy. It

4717
05:19:56.520 --> 05:20:00.959
is, it is crazy. It's
funny when when when it's funny that you

4718
05:20:02.080 --> 05:20:10.360
know, WWE is the one that
usually has the most dead, especially considering

4719
05:20:10.360 --> 05:20:14.759
a substance abuse going on in that
company at that time. I remember thinking

4720
05:20:14.840 --> 05:20:18.599
Sally was dead, but he's not. Nine one one is dead. I

4721
05:20:18.639 --> 05:20:21.360
don't know how the funck that guy's
alive. I know, I know he

4722
05:20:21.360 --> 05:20:23.840
should be dead. On that Dick
Dudley and Sally Gratziano in the same category,

4723
05:20:23.840 --> 05:20:27.560
and Big Dick is dead. So
there's that. But all right,

4724
05:20:27.680 --> 05:20:30.439
well, the table is set and
in ECW, you know what that means.

4725
05:20:30.439 --> 05:20:33.400
It's time to go through it.
Boss. On the other side of

4726
05:20:33.439 --> 05:20:38.040
the break, we Deep Dive e
CW Living Dangerously two thousand