I feel like it's been a while since I've been on This feels a little
strange. Actually, all right, guys, I got through a lot of
work and now I can present to you part three of three years ago in
Waco, And these are the last two videos that were posted by the Hour
of the Time on bit shoot. It's just called Hour the Time, and
it's all of Bill Cooper's archives. I think he posts one a day and
they're up into the eighteen hundreds now, so there's a lot there that you
can learn from. And I'm gonna start with Bill's what do you call it?
What would you say? It was his request basically, and we're gonna
hear that, and then I'm gonna go right into his two broadcasts and it's
actually gonna be video, so don't worry, but I'm going to probably have
to interject a few times because I'm not sure who made this video, and
I'm sure Bill would have commentary on this too, that some of the things
were kind of a little bit whitewashed or steered in a direction based on the
assumption that were, you know, the official narrative given by the FBI and
the ATF. So there's a little bit of that going on. Part two
I personally have not even seen yet. It just came out. It was
just uploaded today. So Part one I did watch and while I was working
yesterday, and it was very still, very informative, and there's a lot.
There's a lot there. Each each one of these parts that I put
out, it's another piece of the puzzle. And you just got to pick
them, you know, find them when you say, oh, and that
one grabbed at you know, this one over here, and then formulate the
new overview of what you've been told versus what is reality? All right,
so let me go ahead and get the show started here. Oh yeah,
I gotta do that again. Okay, all right, So this is the
beginning. This is William Cooper asks us to share his tapes after he is
well you'll see, and it says William Cooper. This is hot clip number
one. William Cooper asks us to share his tapes after he is killed.
I remember, ladies and gentlemen, I have given up my whole life.
I don't have any money. I'm not getting rich from this. In fact,
the only thing that's happened to me and my family is we have been
destroyed. I'm doing this because I love the principles and ideals which made this
country the greatest nation on earth. Even though I may call the vast majority
of American people stupid, apathetic, and ignorant, it's because they are.
But I know that if somehow we can get them out of that, they
will become once again the greatest people that's ever lived upon the face of this
earth. And I do all of this out of love. I'm telling you
this because I want you to know it, because I don't have long to
live. What I am doing now makes me the biggest target in America.
William Jefferson Clinton did not call me the most dangerous radio host in America because
he loves me. And one of these days you're going to tune into this
frequency and you will not hear a thing. And when that happens, I
want you all to dig out all the old tapes of my broadcasts and I
want you to get on whatever radio station's legal, illegal, micro FM,
AM, shortwave HAM, I don't care, and play them over and over
and over and over and over again, because it's the only truth that anybody
in this world is going to hear today. And by now you all know
that that's the truth, okay, And we're gonna get right into it now
here is Is this the part two? Yeah, I'll get the part one.
The Hour of the Time number one eight zero seven Waco a New Revelation
Part one And this is his video. You're gonna hear him introduce it,
and and it's gonna show. It's gonna switch over to the actual video.
You are listening to the Hour of the Time. I'm William Cooper. Good
evening, ladies and gentlemen. Regardless of what you may think initially, you
have never heard this broadcast before. On the Hour of the Time, pay
very very close attention. Get here part one tonight, Part two tomorrow and
on Thursday night. I'll tell you where to get it and make sure that
you do get it. It's important. Normally I would skip the music,
but I think this is suitable suiting to fulfill the long held promise of a
new world order, for brutality will go unrewarded. Just in case you don't
remember, let me jog your memory. In a church they called the Way
Cool Compound. Back in April ninety three, seventeen little children, also helpless
and so small, died a senseless death of gas and flame? How many
names can you recall? Seventy little children? Don't it make you wonder why?
Seventeen little gil Dream? How could they deserve to die? Maybe we
should stop and ask our sin if we become so blind? Well? Seventeen
little gin Hildrum, Finally open up your mind? How did you sleep last
night? Bill Content? Tell me did you feel their pain? Seventeen Little
chim Dream cried out and perished in the flame? Attorney General Janet, we
know I accept your offer to resign. How can you stand for law and
norder now when you won't answer to your crist Seventeen little chief also helpless hands
so small? Seventeen Lucchi, how many names can you recall? Maybe we
should stop and ask us say if we becomes so blad gill seventeen little child,
finally open up your mind. I've heard it, said the branch da
Vidians only God what they desert? Yet no one seems to know what laws
were broke? Again, what was in the warmth they never served? Yesterday?
I sold my TV set, stop my subscription to the tidess. To
me, it's plain to see me was an accomplice to these crimes. Seventeen
little children don't even make you wonder why seventeen little Chill Drew? How could
they deserve to die? Maybe we should stop and ask our SA have we
become so blind? Will seventeen little Chill Hill Drew finally open up your mind?
Ople up your mind. You're gonna find throughout this video that there is
over twenty that actually died in not seventeen. Hello, I'm doctor Frederick Whitehurst.
I was employed by the FBI for sixteen years as an agent, the
last twelve of those years at the FBI Crime Laboratory in Washington, d C.
After reviewing the results of a six year investigation into the tragedy at Waco,
Texas, I am convinced that the American people have never been told the
full truth about that matter. On February twenty eighth, nineteen ninety three,
agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms rated the Branch Davidian compound
near Waco, Texas. Four ETF agents and six Branch Davidians were killed.
The Branch Davidians were immediately charged with murder, thus beginning a fifty one day
siege. On April nineteenth, which is the first day of the Feast of
Moloch nineteen ninety three. The siege ended in a fire which destroyed the compound
and took the lives of seventy nine men, women, and children. The
FBI later claimed that the Davidians had committed mass suicide. Since nineteen ninety three,
former FBI special forces and CIA operatives have come forward with evidence to suggest
this claim is not true. This is the story of that evidence. Having
served with the FBI's hostage negotiation team during this crisis, April the nineteenth would
mark the end of one of my duties and the beginning of another. Unknown
to me, my life was about to change forever. As I would come
to know what failure is. Today, I saw the gates of hell.
I saw the gates a hell. Holding a child in your hands that lost
its light in a fire where the temperatures reached an excess of three thousand degrees
is something that pierced in my heart. April nineteenth, turned the TV on,
and there I saw the tanks ramming into the front of the building,
of the fire shooting out, and it was just it was horrifying. Mommy
says, you know, they told us about their fire says, they said
my daddy and my brother is my zagon. Things will be said straight.
People will know the truth of things. Today two subcommittees undertake historic joint hearings
and executive branch conduct during that led up to the events at Waco, Texas
in nineteen ninety three. In human terms, these hearings are about a tragic
loss of life. Four brave young law enforcement officers lost their lives on February
twenty eighth, nineteen ninety three. A plan raid went badly and off course.
These four agents, dedicated and proud, deserve our full respect. They
did not use to die, but like many others in law enforcement community,
they chose to serve. And let's not forget that those four happened to be
security detail at one point for William Jefferson Clinton and it was with the four
that died. But this is a complex event. On April nineteenth, nineteen
ninety three, after a fifty one day siege, other decisions led to the
use of so called cs gas and a fire broke out. The fire rapidly
consumed the entire Davidian compound, killing all twenty two innocent children and more than
sixty adults. The truth behind that part of the tragedy is also important,
and is the obligation of those who have responsibility for oversight to pursue the truth
relentlessly. The Branch Davidians were a Seventh Day Adventist or a sect of Seventh
Day Adventists. They were an offshoot developed first in California under the leadership of
Victor Hottoff. He moved to why Cohen nineteen thirty four thirty five founded a
community called Mount Carmel. His followers, in turn moved to the location we
know in the early sixties. If you once get to know these people,
they're different from you and me. They're more religious than you and me.
They know the Bible better than you and me. They lived apart from the
rest of us. They lived in a manner different than the rest of us.
They had different marriage customs and different property practices than the rest of us
have. They had a religion that was absolutely incomprehensible to most Christians. Well
with people from all walks of life, various nations, and lot of them
came from England. They were colored people as well as white people. The
majority of those people in there were not criminals in the sense of the word
that we think about them. They were truly believing people. I believe ninety
nine per cent of those people. Their sole purpose was the attainment of eternal
life, which is after all what I believe. All of us that you
know at least that are Christians and believe in the Branch Davidians believe first of
all, that is the remnants of the true faith. They would be attacked
by a hostile army representing on apostate government Babylon, they called it, and
that it was their religious duty to defend the faith. In nineteen ninety two,
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms began an investigation into David Koresh
for the possession of illegal firearms. They formed a dynamic entry plan to secure
the premises and seize illegal weapons with approximately one hundred federal agents and three helicopters,
which would ultimately cost the lives of four ATF agents and six Branch Davidians.
I have to stop there to remind everybody that they knew damn well that
those firearms were not on the property at that time, because they were selling
them as a business and they happened to be taken already off premise to a
gun show, and that two hundred dollars tax stamp that they used as an
excuse they never even had an automatic weapon in the first place. On February
twenty eight, nineteen ninety three, the approximately ninef ATF agents, while attempting
to execute a warrant, were met with heavy gunfire by a group of individuals
occupying a compound approximately ten miles northeast of Waco, Texas. The group is
identified as the Branch Davidian. A gunfight broke out that would become the longest
shootout in American law enforcement history. According to the ATF, their men pull
up to Mount Carmel, pile out of their cattle trailers, running towards the
door, guns pointed, shouting police search warrant lay down. According to them,
David was standing at the front door, unarmed, and she shut the
door when they started running towards him. And the next thing the ATF knew,
it says, it was receiving gunfire from inside of Mount Carmel, in
particular from behind that front door. He knew law and horsement was coming,
and he was so diabolical that he laid an ambush. Gravid Koresh expresses this.
He says in this tape that he went out on his porch, he
said, stop, there's women and children in here, and a shot rang
out and hit the door on to the right. That door, he says,
kicked. I went running down the hall and found Perry Jones laying in
the hall screaming that he had been shut Perry Jones was in his sixties.
He was unarmed, as was David Koresh when they went to the front door.
Both was shot in the area of the front door. David was shot
in the wrist. Perry Jones was shot in the stomach. And then he
says, if you don't believe me, look at the video tape. I
know you have that tape. He says, I saw you making it across
the road. According to the agency, there were three or four video cameras
pointed at the front door could tell you everything that happened at the front door
of that building that day. They claim they can't find a single one of
them. Every one of those videotapes vanished. In addition to the missing videotape,
the ATF's onun scene activity logs also disappeared. I'm sorry, sir,
I just you mentioned that notes were torn out of the surveillance log I was
just wondering, how does that happen. I don't know, sir, I
had never heard that before. My dad's name is Perry Jones. He was
an unarmed man and if you guys just shot through the door killed him,
thanks a lot. Well. Ballistaaros was one of the first ones to the
door. Officer Ballist doors. He's an ATF agent, and they had a
plan that if the dogs came up to attack him when they came to the
front door, if they were to shoot the dogs to kill the dogs,
and he testified at a pre trial hearing that in fact, they did fire
and shoot the dogs. At that time, it didn't take much of a
spark to get a war going. I'm remember gunshooting through the windows. Our
room was shot up completely. I did my best at getting the kids under
the bed. All of a sudden, now there's I don't know how many
fifty seventy one hundred people outside, but at some point before I got Jake
and Brian under the bed, bullets came flying in my window. For a
law enforcement agency, we don't fire through walls indiscriminately. At people greatly feared
that they would come in, they would open that door, and even though
I didn't have a gun, it wouldn't matter that they would shoot me in
the kids. They had already shot it into the window, and I had
no clue what was coming back. Just so you know, the video cut
right there after those people entered. The ATF entered that window. What you'll
see in Waco, the big lie is that another ATF agent from outside the
window starts firing into that room that the ATF agents just entered. So who
shot who and who was killed by whom? The government tried to say that
everybody they could put a gun in everybody's hand at the beginning and during the
raid, and that's it's not true. Most people were unarmed. There were
a few that had guns, and I admit that. And there were probably
those that reacted to seeing David Perry and others gunned down who responded by firing
back. But it was not a general ambushious they would like you to believe.
I am in sympathy with the families of those that lost, the families
of the four agents that died. I know what they're going through. We
lost a lot of friends and a lot of our families. I lost a
daughter inside mouthcomel. After about two hours, they had a real truce.
It wasn't a pretty sight. I mean, there were grown men crying all
around. There was a group of guys that were down on their knees and
they were praying. Very disturbing, you know type thing. I don't think
the deaths on either side were justified as well as those wounded. Judy Snyder
was shot while nursing her baby through the chest. Here my battery gone.
Here my battery hind the bus. Immediately following the at fraid, the Branch
Davidians were charged with murder and conspiracy to commit murder of federal agents. A
year later, the jury found all the Branch Davidians not guilty of both charges,
but some were convicted of lesser offensives. Since the initial February twenty eighth
orra ede, a review is before federal court to determine if the ATF used
excessive force while serving the search warrant. Sir, I've got a people shot.
Get the hell off of here. I'll get off the property. That's
what I'm doing, sir. Hepical respect, I am, sir. You
could have arrested me any day as I jog up and down this road.
You could have arrested me going to town or going to Walmart. All this
stuff you make, you guys may want to avoid and deny, and I
do not appreciate it, and never will I ever appreciate somebody coming here and
pushing people around with guns. See, I'll meet you at the doorstep any
day, you know, and somebody will get hurt if you want to keep
playing that game. I'm talking to you, somebody's going to get hurt,
because this ain't America anymore when the ATF has that kind of power to come
into anybody's home and keep doors down and things like that. The federal agents
said they are headed back through the house. So this thing is not over
by a long shot. And the only way that this is going to end
is is for all of the people inside to die or to surrender. Bread.
I was walking out, Uh, there wasn't any room in the car,
and when they saw me, they just swarmed on me. No forget,
they're hitting me, trying to take my camera away from me, yelling
at me. And after all this went down, the Secret Service asked me
if I wanted to prosecute the agents. I said no, I said,
I understand them. I was their first vent valve. At this point,
we were surrounded. At this point, we did not have a clue what
the government Babylon, in our opinion, was going to do in retaliation.
But we knew it wasn't going to be fun. On the evening of February
twenty eighth, well Mount Carmel is under siege three Davidians not present during the
gunfight, trying to return home to their families. Two of the men are
taken into custody, but Michael Dean Schroeder is killed. They say that they
stopped them and they asked for who they were or whatever. I don't see
how any of the ATF agents were close enough to ask him any questions.
Michael Schroeder's body is left in a ravine for five days, three hundred yards
from Aunt Carmel. According to the ATF statements, Schroeder refused demands to surrender
and raised a pistol. Eleven agents fired on Schroeder. The autopsy report indicates
that he had seven bullet entries. Why it takes so many fatal bullet wounds
to knock somebody to the ground. According to testimony, as the ATF agents
were walking away with their prisoner, leaving Mike lay there like a piece of
meat in ATF eight and stated that they heard two more gunshots. Norman was
picked up. He told the others when he was in jail with them,
he said, after I surrendered, he said they were taking me away.
He said, I heard two more shots up the beck. Schroeder's autopsy report
also indicated that there were two entry wounds behind his right ear, only two
inches apart. The bullets passed through this blue stocking cap. However, the
stocking cap was not examined during the autopsy, nor was any forensic testing conducted
before Schroeder's relatives had his body cremated. I said, Mike Ambushen, there
was seventeen of them as against him, and they were dressed up as trees.
He wasn't armed either. They've got a love to answer for. After
the initial rate happened on February twenty eight, we got several phone calls in
from the ATF that said if they saw any movement inside the building, hands
in front of the windows, if people were standing in front of the windows,
that they felt that it was a threatening situation and that they would shoot
us. On March the first, the FBI begins negotiations with the Davidians.
Heavy military equipment is brought in, and a stalemate begins that will last fifty
one days. Several adults and children leave Mount Carmel and are transferred to atf
custody. The children are turned over to Texas Social Services. We have twenty
one children that have been released to our care. That's the youngest of those
children is five months old and the oldest one is a twelve year old.
The children appear to be smart and well educated, very sharp children. They
seem to have been very well cared for. In early March, Koresh had
promised to come out, but at the last minute he believed that God had
told him to stay in to wait. During the siege, David Koresh believed
that the name prophecy was being fulfilled and which we believe spiritually speaking, that's
talking about the one World order. David Koresh believed that he was going to
be the one that initiates the downfall of this one or new world order,
the fall of Babel of the Great, by sacrificing himself in this denomination.
The description of Ninevah in the Book of Nam David, liking to the description
of this country being all stagnant in its ways, and the battle that takes
place talks about these chariots and shields being bloodied and what's not He likened that
battle to what took place on February twenty eight to read name or Habackic and
you're in it, you're experiencing it. It all fits together. It's all
a conglomerate of different prophecies by different men at different times, talking about a
world Babylon, a great war. These tanks are for solely defensive purposes and
they will not be armed. We have no plans to assolve the compound two
thousand years ago, Hey, who believed in christ doctrine, a man had
to die as no one would believe what he had to say. So is
there a lesson to be learned by looking back at the history of the prophets
that came contrary to what people looked for. Where they killed Isaiah, they
killed Hushi, they killed Zachariah, and Jesus came to say in Matthew twenty
three to the Jews, warned you to believe. Not all the provinces of
spoken, so you know, today it's all together just totally disregarded. It's
another religious fanatic's another religious group. Ever since the rise of television, there's
been a merger of news and entertainment. Monster stories and fairy stories are good,
simple entertainment. Here you have media from all over the world is flown
in and expected by their home offices all around the world to produce a story
every day. I mean, the government could have just issued a press release
every day and the media would have read it word for word over the air.
Just I mean, that's how you know, desperate. It was what
the public was seeing and hearing on TV during the siege, demonized to people
in that church, the ones that I met new the survivors, we're people
that were basically just trying to get to have them. The world can hate
us, the world can laugh at us and taunt us all they want.
The world's a two thousand years to learn this book, and there's been people
all up until now we've been interested in it. Now people don't want the
Bible anymore. People don't seem to want to read the Bible or you know,
they want to go to church and just be saved, you know.
And that's great if that's how faith works. But if God is a will,
and it is written in that book, his spirit's written in the book
through all the profits, then there's a knowledge she wants us to know.
And the knowledge is here and it's being revealed. And that's all I can
say. By March twenty fourth, twenty five children under the age of fifteen
and approximately fifty four adults remain inside the church compound as Steve Schneider negotiates with
the FBI. Let's reflect on this for a minute. Why were they there
in the first instance, A good question. They were there to serve and
execute and arrest and search for They never said anything, not by a bullharn,
not by a knock at the door, not by any reason, not
by any reason, even before they got just about the time they got to
the porch, is when David opened the door and poked his head out.
What we want to do and what we will do when the time is right,
is we will process the crime scene there. Do you know that we
know that that wouldn't be so bad. The biggest issue that I've raised with
you, Dick, is not that you would be here even or that the
Texas Rangers. But I am adamant about this part that the APF is playing
the ones that came to this place, and when I've heard on the press
conference the outright lies and to think that that agency would be involved in any
aspect of this from here on out blows my mind that that would even be
allowed in America. Well, Steve, let's face it, there are some
things that we will we will deal with when the time is right. No,
no, no, we're not dealing with it now. See we can
come out. I mean, that's one of the biggest reasons I have not
been able to hurdle talking to the people getting them to come out. Kay,
Steve, why don't you and your family come out and then you handle
these issues? Okay, why don't we all? Am I going to handle
them? And I'll bet when I'll be shackled for hands and feet and throwing
the key? Will he's throwing away? Who's going to hear me? They're
after blood? Come out? Did they put me in the jail and way
go ahead? After I'd been there a short period of time, they brought
me in and I judge came and told me what I was been charged for.
And he says, you're being charged for murder, conspiracy to murder.
He said, it'll be it one hundred years, seventy five or fifty.
They were assuring us that we would be cared for in a professional manner.
Then you turn around and you've got people that are flipping you the finger over
top of the tanks. They're dropping their drawers and bearing their butts, and
these are the type of people that you're supposed to go out to. I
said, I had heard that you guys had wrote on some of the windows
there at Mount Carmel that we see you, David, etc. And I
asked the agent was this true? And he said, yeah, it's true.
And I said, aren't you guys concerned about when this is over that
the news medium might see this and thinking a little antagonistic on your part.
He just looked at me in the walk the boy. Everything flip flopped from
day to day. You went through a feeling of being real hopeful to you
sunk at the bottom again because from day to day you never really knew what
was going to happen, what the negotiations were going to be. Steve,
Yeah, there's been a change. The tactical people have changed the situation,
and for security reasons and for safety reasons, no one is now authorized to
come out of there for any reason. And what they're telling me is that
if anybody does, they are going to be dealt with in such a fashion
that the people have to retreat back to the compound. Well, what I'm
missing, I guess what you're saying. Are you saying? I would make
it as plain as possible. The patience of the bosses is normal curve where
it was earlier. Okay, I'm about listen to me now, Henry.
I don't really give up out your bosses. When you tell me one thing
or you tell us that is okay, and this Bradley comes up and says
something contrary to what you are. You tell your bosses to get their butts
together. Do you hear me? Would you respond to the allegations that the
reason why we had a wake um is because the FBI was in disarray,
It is obvious that from the time of the change in the administration, it
was very clear that there was a great discussion about the replacement of the director
of the FBI. In a March eleventh letter to President Clinton, Acting Attorney
General Stuart Gerson recommends that the President rely on other FBI leadership to resolve Waco
and dismiss Director Sessions. Chief among those mentioned in Gerson's letter is Assistant Director
Floyd Clark. Don't confuse him with Jeff Says, it's William Sessions. Sessions,
I can't talk today. This situation created a competitive environment for the directorship
of the FBI in the midst of a major crisis. I know this was
a very political thing, and I agree that with your observation that it could
be that the FBI was impaired in its ability. Certainly I was impaired in
my ability. FBI Director William Sessions attempted to fly to Waco during the siege
to conduct face to face negotiations with David Koresh, but he was impeded by
government officials in Washington, d C. The reason Bill Sessions never came to
Waco during the siege was that the Justice Department refused to let him board his
flight. Everybody knows that I had contact directed from people associated with mister Koresh
about the possibility of my going down and negotiating with them. Coming in down
there. Now some people played that as rediculous and ridiculed it or as grand
standing, But it's indicative of what I felt and continued to feel. You
can't discard any possibility that you can resolve that kind of circumstance when you can
take and apply that negotiating capability. The Justice Department wouldn't allow an FBI director
to go and negotiate directly with a so called terrorist who they felt had killed
a number of federal agents more or less in cold blood, and try to
defuse a serious situation ended up in a calamity and a great embarrassment for the
FBI and even greater embarrassment for law enforcement in general. And it was all
politics. They were not about to see this standoff in Waco negotiated again because
it was an opportunity for Floyd Clark and come to show that they were were
the FBI capable of handling a standoff and coming out winning in this kind of
an incident with military kind of tactics. It was a paramilitary organization. Maybe
you might ask them if you can have some ice cream too? Huh care
I have some ice scream? Little browbery there? You know you're right now,
you're considered a big terrorist, you know, and you can demand some
important things like an ice cream or something, you know, maybe they might
adhere to you. By late March, the FBI has cut off electricity to
the compound and is preparing a series of military tactics to force a resolution.
A direct quote from the transcript where it is said by a negotiator to mister
Krash, we had a very good dialogue last night. The electricity will not
go off tonight because we've had a good dialogue this evening, as a negotiator
to mister Krash. Half an hour later, I'm sorry, it's negotiator to
mister Steve Schnyder. And half an hour later, the lights are turned off
and left off permanently. The electricty shut off. Why. I can't answer
the why, but I can tell you that the negotiation team was disappointed in
that decision. Since mid March, negotiations have begun to fail and the FBI
resorts to psychological warfare. I appreciate the music get out Sleep at night.
From the music, I thought you've being a teenager, you might like Martian
starn Oh. I see went through varying degrees of hell with noise music,
bright lights. The children were suffering along with the adults. We were without
water, having had our water tanks shut up. We were living on rainwater.
Whenever it would rain, people would put buckets out the window and collect
rainwater, and it was rationed. I doubt whether anybody got more than eight
ounces a day. If that, how long do you fit with that mini
resource is tied up and disrupting the whole community, with people that are violate,
in violation the laws that are in fact in a state of anarchy.
I can remember looking out the south side of the building. My attention had
been drawn to the fact that the tanks were coming in and they were pushing
all the things on the south side of the church, on the chapel.
The south side of the chapel into a big heave. Looked like they're building
a bonfire. We know from the evidence that the tactical helmet of the FBI
was eager to put a quick end to this standoff. The irony of the
situation is that the tactical people are actually precipitating the crises of the nineteenth They
tell me the commanders want more, and I'm telling them, they're wrecking everything
that we're doing. And it's getting ten times worse. And the more they
threaten these people, the more they'll they bounderate on the floor and they can
run the tanks over them. I mean, that becomes the attitude. Steve
Snyder and a telephone call during the standoff to his sister Sue, refers to
the prophecies in the Book of Naem chapter two. We're talking about Bible and
all the prophetment. I know, look at when you get off the phone,
you look at the Book of nam Yeah, that suriots with flaming torches
are tanks. That's what Naam saw in the final days they're surrounded us.
It's the first time in the history of the United States that the government has
used tanks against its own people. Who it's stupid. I know it well.
I had been talking to the negotiators myself and I and I would tell
them things that I thought would help, and it seemed like like, for
instance, when they started playing the music that they would laugh, They acted
like they wanted to do everything to antagonize them. They really didn't want to
help, And it just seemed like every prediction that David was predicting they knew
about, and they were making these predictions come true, and I kept saying
to my family, why are they doing this? If they want them to
come out? I am bewildered in the wake of Jonestown. Wh I more
time wasn't spent in somebody, not out in the plains of Waco, but
maybe in a nice comfortable office in Washington, didn't immerse themselves in the religious
tenets of this branch Davidian group. If I knew about his plans to burn
the place, we'd had a whole other approach with him. We know about
your plan to burn the place and destroy your people, we would have been
broadcasting it. We would not even come close to approaching that place. Numerous
microphones were planted inside of Mount Carmel that recorded several conversations of the Davidians reacting
to the tanks and the FBI hostage rescue team. I mean, if they're
the comments out here and stole in this place, who was the sieve they
think they're going to go the experian? When will have the experian call there?
Thinking historians? Will they do have the original tool and I lay a
thirteen or did he can take a company plane the fire? The FBI cannot
get up here and say they did not know that David Koresh would respond when
they made that assault. They knew that David Koresh was going to respond by
trying to burn the place down. And they knew that because they had overheard
undercover tapes and because I'd had prior negotiation tapes with him. The tank started
the fire, not the Davidians. Now things are only going to get worse
out there. This whole situation is not going to go away, you know,
and I know the only way we're going to resolve this situation is you
folks come on out' That's the end of it right there. And now you
were going to have to work to a point where this is going to happen.
And now the trick is how And a situation like this, Hey,
there's that's the answer. I'll tell you what. It definitely isn't an unusual
situation for sure. H oh. Sometimes when you have a chand three days,
Theiah thirty three of our people living in fire and walking through it and
coming out and surviving, seriously says, who can dwell in their lasting burnings?
That's the question. There is a tradition in the Branch Davidian history that
God would in the end time protect his people through a wall of fire.
They understand the Bible prophecies to be warnings of what could happen, but not
necessarily what must happen. Krash wrote a letter to his attorney, Dick de
Garrett and which he said he had good news. God had spoken to him.
The waiting period was coming to an end. He and all the people
could exit Mount Carmel and go through the system. But first he was commanded
to write down the meaning of his message, the meaning of the seven Seals.
After he wrote that manuscript, he and all the people were commanded to
leave. They actually had no choice to remain. God had told him to
leave. This message is communicated to the FBI in an attempt to end the
siege. Koresh writes his first seal and is preparing the second when the FBI
begins implementing its final tactical resolution. They'd been knocking down trees and dragging things
off from outside Mount Carmwell a little by little for several weeks. On the
eighteenth, they got rid of everything that was left. It's just like the
Pafecy during the Dark Ages. But if all people were heretics. They went
in and dout with them. That was the way they believed. And you
know, we have to all follow our conscience. That's why America is supposed
to be a great nation where we can follow our conscience according to our beliefs.
There was an aura there that we're going to end this thing. The
individual empim Brand in Amdium compound. We are now the proaking gear gap in
the building and the pro we would not be entering the building. Gas was
instarted using a mark by delivery system secured to a boom. We would not
use dosages that would would harm those children, and they hear gap. Now.
The FBI's position on this from day one was to be very deliberate,
very careful, and not to do anything that would be provocative that would cause
some reaction. There were no injuries to FBI agents, and FBI agents did
not return any fire throughout the entire day, in spite of being fired upon
numerous times by occupants of the compound. The plan was for this to continue
for forty eight hours, but there was a catch to the plan. If
the tanks took fire from the Davidians, they were then allowed to escalate the
plan. According to the official briefing given to Attorney General Janet by the FBI
on April to twelve, the assault plan called for demolition of the building and
permission to shoot streams of automatic weapons fire into the building to support an armored
vehicle's approach. And we told them what was going to happen. This tank's
going to come up, it's going to insert gas. We are not entering
the compound. We're not fulfilling this prophecy. Don't presume that was The Attorney
General warned that while we'd been very cautious about selecting what your experts say or
experts say was non lethal gas, we might still crush sections of the building.
Did she understand that people might be killed? I find an inconsistency between
the efforts of the gas insurtion plan to save life and the actions of this
tank. At Mount Carmel, we had people that were confined to an area.
Where were they going to go? Who were they going to hurt?
They ran out of gas canisters I think about ten o'clock in the morning.
Everything they had planned for forty eight hours was gone by then, and they
were flying in more from Houston. The cs gas used at Mount carmel was
more potent than normal tear gas. Cs gas would induce nausea, vomiting,
and disorientation as the FBI tanks demolished the building. Csgas has a cyanide component
to it. The gas was dispersed from high pressure bottles mounted on the boom
of the combat engineering vehicles. Any indication about danger or harm to those children,
the rule was back off. One of the first locations gassed by the
FBI is the buried school bus the entryway to an underground store shelter. Following
the gassing, the mothers of the children take them to an enclosed concrete vault,
which the FBI calls the bunker. The FBI gases the bunker for two
hours, approximately half of a panel that we had testified that some of the
infants in children, since they didn't have gas masks, could in fact have
died from inhalation or effects of cs gas at the very least. A Department
of Justice decision in fact resulted in the babies and children being tortured for at
least three to four hours. I'd been told that earlier in the morning the
fields wouldn't last long. When it did block up, I'd taken my mask
off, only to find my face bunning and stinging, as like you had
acid all over. Some of them were trying to wipe it off with minimal
amounts of their drinking water on them, perhaps a rag or whatever, only
to find that it made it loose. So, as I say, what
the children would going through, only God knows. I saw grown men,
adults crying because of the sensation of the gas. As I say, we
were fortunate in as much as we were not in an enclosed environment like the
children were being sprayed point blank and not having any ventilation. We are now
at what we believe is the next logical juncture of putting sufficient pressure on them
to cause them to come out. We saw a hole that a tank had
made in the south wall of the chapel, and we were kind of standing
right just inside of that. There was a heap of rubble, sheet rock
and two or fours that the tank had pushed in. We were standing just
a little back from the hole, trying to decide whether if we went out
we would be shot. And as we were standing there, others were kind
of coming in behind us. Next thing I knew I kind of turned was
looking out the hole again, and all this smoke came down the outside of
the building and got sucked in the hole where we were, and the whole
place tourn pitch black. That was the first indication that I recall of any
evidence of fire. Any statement by you that they committed suicide, since we
never got to talked to him, is all a conclusion that you've drawn,
And as you just said, speculation on your part. I'm trying to resolve
in my mind why someone would sit in there for six hours with gas and
not come out with the full opportunity to come out. Well, who was
keeping them from doing it? Were they compelling themselves or what? I don't
know. I'm just it has to be speculation. In the very first video
that I did day fifty one, they talk about twenty five people trying to
flee and they were all gunned down. Hey, I think that's the point
is we don't know. It was so black. You couldn't even say the
flames. You could just feel the heat, oppressive heat that pushed you down
on the ground. And I can remember looking at my hands and the skin
was just rolling off. There's no blister, they were just rolling it off.
In whole layers, you might say. And I looked back over my
shoulder and I was just horrified the fact that I've just come through a mass
of flames. I heard some people screaming, kind of high pitched screams.
Sound anyone was like a scream of fear. It sounded like more of a
scream that someone's getting burned. We were hoping that the women in that compound
would grab their children and flee out. That did not occur. Unfortunately,
they've bunkered down the children the best we can tell, and they allowed those
children to go get up in flames with them. David Koresh, Steve Schneider,
fifty two other adults, twenty five children, and two trauma born infants
perish in the April nineteenth fire. The Davidian survivors were taken into custody by
FBI agents on the scene. No Clive Doyle and other injured French Davidians were
given emergency treatment at the FBI command post. The uninjured Davidians were transferred to
the custody of the ATF and booked into the county jail. The reason we
didn't wait was the thing I've tried to say several times I'm not saying it
well enough. Is that from his actions on the nineteenth when he made the
when he had some of those people killed when he my gunfire. Others died
in the fire but not being able to leave, which I think they were
concerned most of the other's salvation. That was his whole over then, is
that he would dictate when that occurred. Many people would argue, your actions,
how do you respond to their families. It's not because of our actions.
Those children are dead because David Korsh had been killed. There's no question
about that. He had those fires started, He had fifty one days to
release those children. He chose those children to die. I don't know who
started the fire or fires. I don't know who fired bullets into these people's
bodies. I don't know from what origin the bullets came from. So if
we can completely agree that we do not have a definitive answer of the sourcing
that in fact, what we have is an open homicide. Is there anything
that we've missed that we should go after in the remaining two days, Yes,
sir, I think we've missed some of the questions as to as I
mentioned earlier, why items of evidence have disappeared, why the crime scene was
destroyed before it could be evaluated. These areas, especially the evidence disappearing.
Okay, on to the next one. All right, here we go.
You are listening to the hour of the time. I'm William Cooper. Folks,
if you want to check out the number one source of news in the
whole world, the best news that there is anywhere, William Cooper dot net.
William Cooper dot net. One more time, William Cooper dot net.
For those of you living in the Round Valley, we are getting a new
antenna for one on one point one FM, which should triple our signal strength
just the antenna alone. We're not going to add any more power. We're
at the maximum legal power that we can do. But we can add an
antenna that will multiply the signal strength by about three times. We also have
now our amplifier for Channel fifteen for the Round Valley TV, and that's cost
us a bunch of money, and it's being built from scratch. Especially for
us, it was hard to find. It took us a long time and
I've got to publicly thank Scott Becker for that. Now stay tuned for part
two. Waco a new revelation. I mean you have an essence a crime
scene that was so seriously flawed through ignorance or through an air of an elite
mentality, or in fact, there was a conscious decision made to not collect
evidence for any sort of serious examination other than to try and prove that the
Davidians had weaponry and firepower enough to kill federal agents. Some of these bodies
exhibited characteristics of perhaps being shot. Did anyone fire from any other location?
The information that we've always been given will that there was no federal gunfire on
the day of April nineteenth. Well, in reviewing the photographs and the three
oh two's, the statements in them, I would say there are some questions
that need to be answered. The FBI named the sniper positions Sierra one,
Sierra two, Sierra three. On April nineteenth, FBI Special Agent Charles Riley
stated in his after action report that he had heard shots fired that morning from
sniper position number one, the undercover house. The position was occupied by the
Blue Sniper Team, led by Special Agent LN Horiochi. Horyuchi stated that LN.
Horyuchi, does anybody remember that name? He is the guy who shot
Vicky Weaver in the head while she was holding her baby at what, yeah,
the Ruby Ridge incident that happened just before this, well, you know,
before this, neither he nor his snipers fired their weapons on April nineteenth.
The fact that Agent Haruchi states in History or two that the snappers at
Serra one, which was in the cover house, did not fire, and
there is a shalecase and expended shallcase and they're visible on the floor with also
lase of question four. Expended shellcasings are later found at Sierra one, the
location of Agent Horiuchi's Blue Sniper team. What makes this particularly interesting is mister
Horiuci coincidentally happens to be the FBI agent who shot and killed Vicky Weaber at
Ruby Ridge and had been charged with manslaughter by the State of Idaho. In
August nineteen ninety two, white separatists Randy and Vicky Weaver were involved in a
stand off with the FBI at their Mountain home. Agent Horiuci shot and killed
Vicky Weaver, who was standing in the window of the door holding her ten
month old daughter. She was standing there holding baby in her arms, holding
the door so we could get in after they'd wounded me. And this guy
is still running free. According to an internal federal government investigation, Horiuci's shot
is termed unconstitutional loan Horiuci was never tried. Seven months later, he was
the leader of the Blue sniper team at Waco, accompanied by most of the
FBI team from Ruby Ridge. Our desire was to get them out to use
non lethal means in a systematic manner so that they would come before the bar
and face justice. We did not want this to occur. At some point
we had this up the ante. He was continually fortifying. He was demanding
and was seeking provocation to get into a shootout with us, which we were
refusing to do. According to the FBI's on site activity log, at nine
o three am, FBI Command advised zero two that an unknown subject could be
seen traveling on foot at the back of the building. In this aerial photo
taken at approximately nine am, a Davidian appears to be leaving the building and
walking toward the back of the compound. The log indicates that Falcon two,
an FBI helicopter, took off to intercept the subject. As it approaches Mount
Carmel, Several flashes can be seen coming from the side of the helicopter.
Doctor Edward Allard, a former supervising scientist in video and Television Imagery at the
US government's Night Vision Directorate, examined the helicopter footage and concludes that the flashes
are gunfire. We analyze these flashes, as we have done in one sixtieth
of a second time frames. It appears that there's three shots coming from the
helicopter, but in fact, each one of those three shots can be broken
down into one sixtieth time frames sixtieth of a second, and we find,
for instance, in the first flash, there is five separate shots being fired,
and it's indicative of a machine gun that's firing at about six hundred rounds
per minuted. In this view of one of the FBI's helicopters, a pedestal
mounted machine gun can be clearly seen in the doorway. FBI agents did not
return any fire throughout the entire day, in spite of being fired upon numerous
times by occupants of the compound. On the other hand, since this is
on a helicopter, and people might say that it's reflections from the windshield,
it's impossible for these shots that you're seeing with your own eyes that to be
solar reflections, because if it were so, the helicopter would have to be
violently moving back and forth like a mirror in your hands, and this is
impossible. So it's it's in our opinion that's clearly machine gun fire from the
helicopter in coming out. The conversation as I remember it was well if we
come out, we we'll be shot. According to the autopsy reports, Philip
Henry was shot several times in the chest, shoulder, and head. Jimmy
Riddle was shot once in the forehead. Neither of them had sot of accumulation
in their trachea or bronchial tubes, or carbon monoxide in their blood, indicating
that they died before the fire started. Later, when I saw the autopsy
report and seeing that he died of a gunshot wounded the head, it made
me wonder if it was in fact the snappers that were in the barn garage
that was in the back of the The autopsy reports also indicated extensive body mutilation
to Philip Henry and Jimmy Riddle. The entire right side of Riddle's body from
the shoulder to the hip had been torn away. In previous testimony, doctor
Nizam Kirwani, the medical examiner, observed that this could have been the result
of the collapse of the building or an encounter with a tank tread. Philip
Henry's body was interred during the year following his death. However, a new
autopsy was requested by Jimmy Riddle's relatives to settle the circumstances surrounding the missing portion
of Riddle's body and the gunshot wound to his head. Doctor Ron Greser,
the forensic pathologist who conducted the examination, concluded in his findings that the damage
to Riddle's skeletal remains is consistent with a tank having torn the body apart.
A forensic examination of the bullet entry wound in Jimmy riat skull could not be
conducted because the evidentiary portion of the skull was missing. Doctor Pierjuani performed the
original autopsy and was asked to provide a certified copy of his report for comparison.
According to Riddle's relatives, the local Texas authorities and US marshals refused to
allow doctor Pierjuany to turn over the documents. We got to doctor Pierjuany's office
trying to get the information. I'm my brother, Jimmy Riddle. Doctor Pierjuani
told me that he didn't know why they kept trying to keep the information promise.
He didn't know what they were hiding, and that he had the information,
but he was ordered by the US marshals and the JPS not to release
any information to me. While Americans were watching events unfold at the front of
the building, the FBI's infrared video shows what took place at the rear of
the structure. What a flair really does is it takes invisible radiation, which
is called infrared radiation, and it converts it into visual radiation. You might
say that we can see with the eye. What we have here is a
tank infantry type of an operation. As the tank moves forward, two men
have dropped out of the escape patch, they roll over, and as they
roll over, they open up with automatic gunfire. We've measured the actual time
of the individual flashes, and they occur at a fraction of a second,
in some cases a thirtieth of a second. There is absolutely nothing in nature
that can cause thermoflashes to occur in a thirtieth of a second. Somebody related
or who had prepared a film or analyze a film. Representatives of the Department
and representatives of the FBI went over it in detail and concluded that there was
no basis for suggesting the shot that shots had been fired. As the tank
crushes the roof of the gymnasium, gunfire can be seen streaming into the dining
room from positions in the courtyard. I stopped counting after about sixty two individual
shots. Interviewed on NBC's Meet the Press on May fourth, nineteen ninety seven,
FBI Director Lewis Free stated that no shots were fired by any federal agents
outside of the compound, and that allegations raised about gunfire seemed to be based
on some inferences from infrarey flash patterns and heat patterns. I think the overwhelming
evidence clearly shows that no shots were fired. It's indicative of sunlight reflecting off
something and registering on the flare. It could be a thermal pattern. If
it were a thermal pattern, there is nothing that persists from that, so
therefore it is more likely to have been reflected light off of something shiny,
in which the sunlight now gives an apparent temperaturize. From the basic physics,
it's safe to say that it's impossible for the Waco Fleir to detect any solar
reflections of any kind on our wish list. As investigators was taking a harder
look at the Fleer, the Congressional staff was never able to find or take
advantage of a genuine Fleer expert to watch the Fleer video with us and to
understand exactly what we were seeing. By comparison, this Department of Defense Fleer
video taken in Somalia in October of nineteen ninety three as troops exit a helicopter
shows gunfires similar to the thermal signature on the Fleer videotape at Waco. A
former analyst from the US Intelligence god Immunity, Maurice Cox, tested the FBI's
claim, applying the principles of solar geometry. For an aircraft flying at an
altitude of nine thousand feet, a flash anomaly occurring on the ground would be
visible in an area only one hundred feet wide. Frame by frame measurements of
the Flair videotape showed a repetition of ten flashes per second, the same rate
as a machine gun firing at six hundred rounds per minute. According to the
sunlight Reflections Report. In order to duplicate these multiple flashes, the reflective surfaces
would have to be exactly the same shape and size and positioned in an array
too precise to occur by chance. To record sunlight reflections at ten flashes per
second, the FBI small aircraft would have had to travel at mock one point
eight, nearly twice the speed of sounds. The sun Reflection Report concluded that
the flash signatures on the Waco Flear video could only have been caused by gunfire.
In January nineteen ninety nine, mister Cox challenged Director Free and Bureau scientists
to disprove his findings. They did not respond. If someone comes to me
to understand the data, I need to tell them the uncertainty associated with it.
If the government is only telling them this was not a field of fire,
well the government is refusing to look at this, and anybody with their
playing eyes could see, well, something's going on there. You know,
when you think of the fact they're shooting automatic weapons fire into a building with
children in it, there's something wrong. Doctor Allard has stated that this video
shows gunfire being directed into Mount Carmel from the outside of Mount Carmel on April
nineteenth, The only people that could have come from would have been federal agents.
Other flashes can be detected on the Fleer tape within an hour of the
fire, such as this detonation in the courtyard, which has a thermal signature
that is consistent with a hand grenade exploding, and more gunfire can be seen
near this tank. But if the FBI's claim is true and the hostage rescue
team didn't fire at Ranch Davidians, then there is another possibility. According to
what we saw written in the Book of Mayhew, we were to undergo a
military style attack. We were to be attacked by tanks and people from the
military. On the use of military personnel and heavy equipment against US citizens.
Other questions linger how much was used and why there was concern express that the
FBI had only one hostage rescue team and they were tiring. Do you recall
that conversation in that meeting, I recall I believe I asked for that meeting.
Yes. On April fourteenth, just five days before the fire, a
meeting was held between Attorney General Janet Reno, the FBI command team, and
Special Forces commanders. Brigadier General Peter J. Schumacher and Colonel Gerald Boykin of
Delta Force. The purpose of this meeting was to convince Reno to authorize a
final assault at Waco. Military is trained to find, fix, and destroy
the enemy. You don't worry about warning your military enemy of constitutional rights.
What is generally known or known in public as Delta Force is a reality called
Combat Applications Group. So anybody who asks about Delta will get told with a
straight face by the Army that no such organization exists. What organization does exists
as Combat Applications Group, and their state admission is to perform counter terrorism operations
overseas and defensive US interests. Earlier in an opening I gave this morning with
regard to the Posse Commatatis Act, just to refresh my colleagues memories. The
kind of tatas statute is a criminal statute that states that it's a crime to
use any part of the army or air force to enforce the laws of the
land unless authorized by Congress or the Constitution. There is, in my judgment,
it is absolutely clear that no law was violated, no action was taken
that comes close to violating Posse comitatus or any other law. General Huffman,
is that your Do you agree with that, Congressman? So far as the
Army is involvement in this, I would say that is correct. An Army
Delta, any Terrist, or any other military operational asset. The question is
are we getting any help from from the military? King to the Delta teams?
Asked the questions, are we getting help from the Delta team and we're
not. In mid March nineteen ninety three, I attended a Senior Executive staff
meeting at CIA Headquarters and it involved senior agency management along with the liaison officers
from the US military, in particular from Delta Group. The briefing centered on
Delta's operations in Waco, Texas. This previously classified military document confirms the presence
of Delta Force at Mount Carmel with approval of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
An observer was deployed to the scene on March twenty first, nineteen ninety three,
accompanied by three other operators also characterized as observers. One particular was questioned
by a member of the hearing and pressed and pressed he did not want to
reveal even the existence of Delta Force and finally had to admit that they were
present. Originally, I was told that there was just going to be one
or two Delta personnel there as observers. But during the briefing it was mentioned
that there was over ten Delta operators at Waco, Texas, and they were
not there merely as observers, but would be participating in any type of operational
or tactical effort against the Branch Davidians. My understanding is that in some way
the US Military Delta Force were advising the hostage Rescue team from inside the tanks
or inside the Brady fighting vehicles, or were present at the sniper posts to
provide support or assistance. And those types of activities to me would mean for
deployed they were not back at a conference room or table giving advice or and
you ought to think about this year, they were out there a working shoulders
soldier with the HRT. Approximately a year after the Waco incident, I was
deployed overseas in Europe and I had the chance to meet some of the Delta
operators that I had been on previous assignments. They had told me several different
occasions during my meets with them in Europe that not only were they forwardly deployed
at Waco, Texas. But they were actually involved in a gunfight with the
Branch Davidians. When you see the individuals roll off from the tank and come
around the size and start shooting in from the building, what they're doing,
they're defending the vehicle. The f HRT or kind of the applications group,
whoever was pulling the triggers, expected resistance, expected shots to be fired.
Then their moves on April nineteenth made tactical sense. But I did talk to
some Combat Applications Group, but the guys and they did confirm that, yes,
the portions of B Squadron were there pulling triggers. There's no doubt in
my mind that the flashes on flair tape was far from us any automatic or
automatic weapon farre being returned into the building. I mean, it's inconsistent to
even think otherwise. There were people there on the ground with automatic weapons,
and flashes such as that only come from one thing, and it comes from
rifle barrels that are that are firing back into the building. Their operators had
penetrated the buildings on several occasions, planning surveillance devices, listening devices, sensors,
and on one occasion, I believe it was April seventeenth, late seventeenth,
early eighteenth, Koresh was actually within six feet of one of the operators
and they radio it back to the Tactical Operations Center for permission to grab them.
Within minutes, the word came back from Justice Department. No, we
already have a plan in place, that plan, of course, being what
happened on April nineteenth. To me, that would be an offensive gesture when
you enter someone's home. That's pretty offensive, and I would personally have a
problem with that. I think that it violates everything that I've been taught that
you don't use a military against civilian personnel in this country. Reports that the
military Delta forcement have been involved in one way or another, will you make
an inquig into that as well. We will pursue any issue that is in
question. I will not let this become a show trial with law enforcement as
the defendant. These Waco hearings must not degenerate into a kangaroo court. It
is unfair for us today to look at what law enforcement did at Waco in
a vacuum, and it is unfair to twist the facts, making law enforcement
the villain, and David Koresh, the lawbreaker, the victim. David Koresh,
you may not think he was innocent. The mothers and the fathers of
the children, you may not think were innocent, But those seventeen children that
died here were truly innocent. We had heard during the meeting various scenarios that
they were going to use down in Waco, Texas to try to bring a
speedy recovery or speedy end to what was taking place down there, And at
that time, guess was talked about. A couple other situations were non lethal
situations were talked about, and the primary concern around the table was a lot
of the people that a lot of the Branch Davidians that were inside the building,
we're willing or did not want to end their lives in such a fashion,
especially the seventeen children that were down there. Who's God's sad on the
throne? Who's that out point? Where's God lived? He's he gonna save
you? How come? Well? People ask why we didn't let the children
out? If they saw all that was happening and they were in there with
their children, would they have sent them out to the animals outside? That
was shooting at them and doing all those terrible things. No, federal law
enforcement officers obviously did make some tactical errors prior to and during this tragic incident,
and I hope this body, somebody holds them accountable. Please, I'm
pleading with you, somebody out there. When the federal government still screwed up
big tank. Okay, but they didn't start this fire. Based upon the
ATF's arson investigation, accelerants were used at all points of origin of the fire.
There was no disagreement between us that this fire was intentionally started inside the
compound by the people in there using flammable liquid as accelerants. I don't remember
who it was, but he was pouring this liquid on the floor and Bubble
was saying, I pour it inside, pour it outside. It was clear
to us from listening to those tapes that the government was going to be able
to prove that the Davidians, at least some of the Davidians had a plan,
and that some of the Davidians were aware of this plan. I'm sure
that the FBI down there had a lot of fiber optics, audio and visual
equipment installed in the building there. I'm sure they knew exactly what the parents
Davidian's plans were, what their intentions were if there was an attack inst the
buildings, such as a gas attack like that, if they believe we were
going to try to enter the compound and then wait the over here sounded like
there was one comment that we're going to wait until they come in before we
like this. Why in the world would the FBI make the assault knowing that
information the border lines on criminal misconduct For the FBI to make that assault when
they knew that he was going to respond like that, particularly on the most
windy day of the year. The FBI claimed that it never used pyrotechnic CS
rounds munitions capable of starting a fire. However, in this footage made prior
to the fire, two agents are seen firing projectiles from an M seventy nine
grenade launcher into the storm shelter at the north end of the building. Seconds
later, white smoke pours from the shelter. According to CS expert Colonel Rex
Applegate, any tear gas that create smoke is considered pyrotechnic. There's been some
unfortunate reporting talking about that if tear gas were utilized, it would deprive the
children of oxygen and it perhaps could be fatal. What they were describing is
not the type of tear gas that we are using. We're using a non
pyrotechnic type of tear gas which does not deprive them of oxygen, so it
is not a lethal type gas. This is the US Military Mark six point
fifty one CS projectile recovered in the aftermath of the Mount Carmel fire. It
is pyrotechnic and has a burning time of twenty five to thirty seconds. It
generates a distinctive cloud of white smoke. I am very, very troubled by
the information I received this week suggesting that pyrotechnic devices may have been used in
the early morning hours on April nineteenth, nineteen ninety three, at Waco time.
All available indications are that the devices were not directed at the main Wooden
compound, were discharged several hours before the fire started, and were not the
cause of the fire. In the fall of nineteen ninety eight, unprecedented access
to the Waco evidence lockers was granted. The pyrotechnic projectiles identified in the crime
scene photos were missing from the evidence boxes. However, two additional forty milimeters
munitions were found. These devices are identified by the manufacturer's literature as pyrotechnic rounds.
They were found in the rubble behind the compound. These munitions were examined
and the preliminary results indicated these devices may have passed through the wood structure.
Probably. I'm not embarrassed, I'm very, very upset. The Arson report
fails to identify the specific instruments used to ignite the fires or the individuals that
might have used those instruments. As a result, no Arson charges were ever
filed against any of the branch Davidians. What is not covered in the Arson
report is the presence of the government's own pyrotechnic devices at the points of origin
of the fire. This flash bang device, for example, was found in
the rubble of the dining room. The flash that results as the detonation of
this charge can cause a fire in any area where there is a high concentration
of volatile vapors. In the evidence locker, there are six pyrotechnic flash bang
grenades mislabeled as silencers or gun parts. According to the Texas Department of Public
Safety, they were found in the southwest corner of the building, the dining
room and the chapel. All three points of origin of the fire. Now,
maybe the government, the FBI, the ATF did some wrong things,
but they didn't light the fire. They didn't start the fire. That is
not one of these questions that is very debatable. There are times when you
cannot keep your job and put alternative explanations for data on the table. Any
of us can think about, yeah, I we'll stand a building burn up.
I don't think many people would do it, and I don't understand why
they didn't come out. At twelve ten pm, the Fleer videotape shows at
least two automatic weapons being fired into the back of the burning dining room,
the only undamaged exit from the building. And what we have is we have
then firing automatic weapons and they're firing into the burning building, and like some
sort of a cowboy movie, they're retreating down the building and firing as they're
retreating. I cannot remember something more sickening that I had the due to witness
this. According to the Justice Department report, at least fifteen people were found
shot to death at this location. The FBI conducted ballistic tests, which the
Justice Department later termed inconclusive and rudimentary at best, whether or not. You
argue that some people committed suicide, yes, that may be, but I
would say the majority of the people the bodies that I saw were clearcut homicide
victims. When there was shooting going on and things like that. It's kind
of tongue in cheeked and ten men and say, why didn't you come out
as a peace officer. You're trained that killing people and taking someone's life is
the absolute last thing that you ever want to do. Period. You signed
on to help people, you didn't sign on to kill them. If the
opinion is rendered that there was no shots fired from any other location other than
from within the building, i e. Meaning the branch Davidians shot themselves through
suicide or homicide, then the government is left with a position that we are
not going to do ballistics tasks on any one weapons, whether they be bureau
officials or other officials that might have been on the scene. The forensic evidence
on the bodies themselves is very trouble. The bodies were preserved in a frozen
or near frozen state inside two trailers for the purpose of examination. For some
reason, those trailers who were under the control of the FBI were allowed to
not have any electricity running to them, and the bodies deteriorated beyond which any
sort of forensic evidence could be gathered. And we were very, very troubled
by that the crime scene was declared a biohazard, and since the FBI predetermined
that this was a mass suicide, the crime scene investigators were instructed to sift,
wash, and bleach the evidence associated with the bodies, destroying much of
its evidentiary value, grinding up all the other crimes. And I'm standing to
myself on what the hell are they doing that for, except for are they
conveniently trying to cover up something that they don't want the public to know.
During the siege, some of the women and all of the children were sent
to the bunker located in the center of the compound. The monker was an
old church records vault which had survived a fire several years before. It is
here that the remains of some of the women and the young children were found.
Based upon the fact that the majority of the women and children protected themselves
by dousing themselves with water and blankets, trying to keep the smoke to a
minimum, trying to prolong themselves or life in a nearly fireproof container clearly demonstrates
that they weren't embracing the flame, that they were trying to flee the flame.
According to their autopsy reports, some of the children were still alive during
the fire, but upon the condition of their bodies, there was evidence of
a deadly explosion. I read that the FBI on foot, entered the building,
shot the Davidians, and planted an explosive device on top of the church
vault that he called it. We referred to it as the bunker because it's
a concrete cinder block. That's another theory that did not could not have possibly
happened in this particular incident. Referring to that explosion, the explosion happened well
after the building was totally destroyed. It was very unlikely that that explosion was
anything other than a propane cylinder. The fireball was created by a ruptured propane
tank on the ground adjacent to the bunker. But a large hole in the
roof of the bunker has never had an official acknowledgment or explanation. What it
tells me is that you had a demolition charge who went on on the roof.
General Ben Parton, a former military explosive expert testified that there were two
explosions. This footage shows the detonation of a high explosive device on the bunker,
which appears to ignite gas from a ruptured propane tank. After completion of
the FBI in Texas Rangers investigation, the bunker was bulldozed into rubble. Six
years later, in nineteen ninety nine, permission was granted to test the residue
from the blacks. Strangely, however, that portion of the bunker was not
found after a thorough search of the rubble. That's a childs I mean,
that's just a little bit a one year old. Yeah, see this boom?
Yeah, you know. According to the FBI and ATF investigation, the
Branch Davidians did possess some low order explosives like gunpowder, but this would not
be capable of penetrating six to eight inches of steel reinforced concrete like a high
order explosive such as TNT. The blast hole at the top of the roof
you can plainly see the rebar is spent in. The damage to the stainless
steel refrigerator, which appears to have been under the blast hole, is consistent
with a shape charge, and the blast being directed downward into the room in
this enclosed concrete room would very likely cause some seam rupture and create a huge
overpressure inside the room that would pretty much kill everybody in there. Anybody who
was under this device when it was blown would have been horribly mangled, probably
dismembered, pretty much like being thrown into a grain thrusher. Having examined still
photographs and videotape of the bunker, it was apparent to me that this was
caused by a shape charge. But what bothers me is who would have the
audacity to use such a charge rather than risk your own people going in there
and trying to shoot it out with them. It's a standard, it's a
standard tactic in city fighting. Children and women unarmed China, save their lives,
that's who he's talking about, trying to protect themselves from. And military
operations built up terrain to use explosives in this manner to kill people in the
targeted room. That you're going with that, The military's advice to the FBI
was that it should focus on the leadership and capture or kill David Koresh was
to our benefit that we were able to vent him from carrying out the second
part of his prophecy, and that is that he intended to kill as many
members of law enforcement as he could before his members were killed. It was
to our benefit, and we're most fortunate then none of our people were injured.
Well, it's very obvious that the effort there was demonstrated there assured that
there would be no survivors. In the Church record's vault was the Attorney General
pressured by the White House to end the siege? What were the roles of
Webster Hubble and Vince Foster who actually made the decision? You used cs gas
with twenty two children inside of the Vidian compound? After two years? Why
is there still no clear answer? Rangers had this. Remember it's pretty darn
likely that Clintons had Vince Foster killed two culties. Working with the FBI,
they had a major responsibility. We had our responsibility, and they seemed not
to go hand in hand. And as I recall, I testified for Congress
about having a name in the White House. I could have called to solicit
the support of the federal authorities in our objective, and it turned out to
be Vince Foster. Mister Hubblem, do you recall a meeting on or about
the fourteenth or fifteenth of April that you attended with Vince Foster, with mister
Noosebaum, and I guess some others in which was really a turning point.
Did you or others at that meeting recommend or was there any discussion about the
use of military force or equipment. There was not any discussion about use of
military force. There was discussion of having the military evaluate the FBI's plan.
The briefings by General Schumacher and Colonel Boykin of Delta Force gave Attorney General Janet
Reno the assurances she needed to okay the FBI assault plan. Presidential Council vents.
Foster was the White House's point man for the Waco affair. Ninety days
later, Foster commits suicide. He had a lot of things on his plate
at the time, the firing the Travel Office being one, but nobody was
killed in that one. What I think was really on his mind was Waco.
I to this day, I don't understand what he meant by the FBI
lied to me. Missus Foster said that her husband was depressed about a number
of matters, and she ranked the Waco tragedy very high, as any of
us would who were responsible for such an activity that resulted in such a tragedy.
In this FBI THREEHO two report, Missus Foster indicates that her husband was
troubled by the deaths of the children at Waco and believe that everything was his
fault. When you are troubled by something and you feel responsible for something,
you can only feel responsible for it if you could have done something about it.
And I would take this as a cover up of the Clinton's actions that
actually kill him because they were afraid he was going to talk. Perhaps mister
Foster felt that he could have done something about Waco, whether he tried to
intervene, whether he was overruled. The extensive use of governmental privileges against grand
jury and criminal investigations has of course been a pattern through this administration. Most
notably, the White House cited privilege in nineteen ninety to prevent Justice Department and
Park Police officials from reviewing documents in Vincent Foster's office in the days after his
tragic death. The day after Vince Foster died, I got a phone call
from a fellow who used to be on my squad who told me that they
not explaining who they were, but they had agreed that the FBI was going
to come over and do a regular crime scene search of Vince Foster's office.
During the Whitewater investigation, Deborah Gorum testified she saw a Waco file in the
security file cabinet next to mister Foster's desk. In addition, Michael Chertoff,
Council for the Senate Committee, inquired about a letter by Vince Foster involving Waco.
Neither was ever recovered during or after the crime scene search, and their
whereabouts are still unknown. However, White House Secret Service agent Harry O'Neill testified
that Maggie Williams was seen removing files from Foster's office the night of his death.
Thomas Castleton, an intern and mister Foster's assistant, testified that he had
also removed a box of files. Just let you know where we are in
the state of the record. We have received evidence that, in fact the
box was in mister Forster's office. Did you understand the box you were taking
up was a box of files that originated in mister Foster's office. I did
understand that, sir. You heard that from Maggie Williams. Yes, And
in fact, it was Maggie Williams, the chief of staff to the First
Lady, that you accompanied in taking this box up to the residence. Right,
that's right. What were you told by Maggie Williams about why the box
was being taken up to the residence. I was told that the contents of
the box needed to be reviewed, reviewed by whom by the first Lady,
Maggie Williams was Missus Clinton's chief of staff. Maggie Williams took out, can't
big youth, You can't call anything else but what it is. It was
evidence. One of the interesting things that happens in an investigation is you begin
to get anonymous phone calls, and we in fact received anonymous phone calls from
Justice Department managers and attorneys who believed that pressure was placed on Janet Reno,
a biweb hubble, and pressure that came from the First Lady of the United
States. Now, we believed that because the military was President Waco in some
capacity, that the President may have made a decision to allow that to happen,
following some sort of illegal protocol where he says, this is of such
a serious nature that need to be involved, and we asked for those documents
and asked to see National Security Council documents and were not provided with any information
that enabled us to reach a conclusion. It's a serious allegation that the President
interfered with changed moved up the decision, and we can't just bandy these things
around unless we have some real evidence. If Combat Applications Group was on the
ground that day actually pulling triggers, the origin of that operation would have come
directly from White House. It would have come from the President, because Combat
Applications Group is, for all the tests purposes, the President's private army.
It was discussed at the meeting that the senior levels of the Clinton administration had
authorized Delta to be deployed to Wicco, Texas, and not just two or
three people deployed there, but enough people there to get the job done.
As we come to an end, all of us are looking for anything that
happened in these hearings after eight days and nights to indicate not that that General
A Reno had something to do with this, but now the President, well,
after we've exhausted that bit, the only one left that I can think
of is the butler. Maybe the butler did it. I am surprised you
hadn't tried to subpoena a butler. By now, our disappointment could not have
been greater as professionals and as humans who care about the plight of others when
the investigation was terminated by Congress. As I count up the deaths here,
eighty six and then if you want to make the leap, then Oklahoma City
has some connection because it was done on the anniversary of Waco. That's another
one hundred and sixty, give or take. So you're talking two hundred and
forty six lives. And for this Congress to try to oversee what the hell
happened and how did it happen, it just seems to be talking about the
butler did it. A little capricious, a little frivolous, and that's just
my opinion. I yield my time to mister mccombory. Which the struggle we've
had I was attorney gentleman. The Freedom of Information Act was passed, and
the government hated the Freedom of Information Act. They hated me for pressing for
it because they don't want to be questioned about what they do. They don't
want to have to explain what they do. And yet, if you want
to be a free society, if you want to have justice, if you
want to avoid a police state, you better know what your government does.
You better insist upon a right to know what your government does. Even though
you have a twenty million dollar investigation, you don't have twenty million dollar answers.
There's nothing about Waco I feel good about. But imagine seeing small children
disarticulated with bullets and debris and having to pick up their body, and their
head comes off in your left hand and their body comes apart in your right
hand. I mean that leaves a horrible, absolutely indelible etched in your brain
memory of a tragedy. The prosecutors during our trial tried to prove conspiracy and
murder, and all eleven defendants were found by a jury to be not guilty
of those two charges. And I think that, to me, is for
the President and for any media or anybody in this committee to continue to refer
to us as utterers. I feel that's unjust. The government cannot be proud
about what they did on February the twenty eighth. They cannot be proud about
what they did on April the nineteenth, and they certainly can't be happy about
what this jury said to them today. We found all of the defendants not
guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and of murder. In essence, there was
no way we could say that they did not use firearms. I think the
jury totally rejected the scary idea that came out in final argument. If someone
who would study a certain religion by virtue of the way he thinks, would
be guilty of a conspiracy to murder federal agents. That I think is one
clear message that came out of this trial. What we came to realize too
late to correct was that we could not have found them guilty of using firearms
without having them on them guilty of either conspiracy to murder or murder. Those
two charges were tied together. When the judge looked at the jury's verdict,
he said that this finding of guilty to commission of a federal offense is inconsistent.
I'll throw it out. But then he changed his mind, and when
it came to sentencing, he stood the jury's verdict on his head. He
said in his sentencing speech that since they were guilty of using a weapon and
the commission of a federal offense. He would find that the federal offense was
murder and conspiracy to commit murder. He went further on to say, you
murdered not only the ATF agents, but your own co religionist. Federal sentencing
guidelines allowed Judge Smith to choose the sentence of between five and forty years.
He gave all but two defendants the maximum sentence of years in federal prison.
I knew what was going to happen. I knew what the agents were going
to say, what they're going to blame myself, and I was in therefore.
But yeah, I was just something I had to go through. I'm
a school teacher and it's, you know, a good opportunity for me to
get away from the kids and forget all about them for a while and just
kind of relax for a while. Paul Fatter was not at the initial February
twenty eight shootout with the ATF, but was charged with aiding and a betting
and was also given a maximum sentence of fifteen years. I don't like being
in prison, you know. I don't like this situation. It's it's a
feudal experience. I don't understand it. I don't think it's making me a
better person or it's but I believe it's all for a reason. The system
had every opportunity to be fair and honest and truthful and treat us properly,
and they chose not to. They chose to lie, to deceive, and
to cover up, to cover their positions or their retirement or their whatever it
may be. And that's something they got to deal with. They got to
look at theirselves in the mirror every morning and say that, hey, I
made decisions that ended up costing a lot of people their lives. I want
to say that Branch Davidians are not anti government, why not anti law enforcement?
And I'm sorry that they're at full Hey, Instead, it did and
they're a lot of a wounded that we lost eighty five well friends and family
too, and it was unnecessary. I hear a lot of people saying that,
you know that they hope this will never happen again. What happened to
us. I believe that what happened to us was just the beginning. Many
of us had a heartfelt concern for individuals that chose to a particular lifestyle that
was a little bit of an off brand lifestyle. And who were cavalierly thought
of as unimportant and thought of as people who simply committed suicide or simply burned
themselves up. And that claim being so widely held by everything is also the
type of thing that the investigator wants to get in under and really find out
if there's another side of the story. They were my life and meant everything
to mine, and I still do now. I thank God for the hope.
But one day, and I hope it's soon, that I'll be able
to put my arms around them and play with them again and take care of
them, God willing, we cannot put this government in the seat of God
and go along with this government and say, look, you can take life
anytime you will please, just like you did right before our very eyes.
We had a play by play, just like it was a football game.
But you can't do this, you know. I think the media needs to
be the watchdog for the people. I mean, that's why it's the first
amendment, if not second, not to sixteenth, it's the first amendment.
Somebody way back when thought it was very important that the mediaud be the watchdog.
I mean in this system of checks and balances, and in this instance
it was asleep. If we choose to learn from our mistakes, it is
from admitting our errors that we come closer to understanding how we might prevent tragedies
like these from happening in the future. Those who cannot admit their mistakes,
well, all we can do is offer our prayers. Our government is an
imperfect one compromise of imperfect people. It can only be as good as we
choose to make it. We have come too far to quit or to coast.
We must continue to make it better. So we must not allow ourselves
to become bitter, only better. Perhaps the greatest lesson to be learned is
often the most difficult to remember until it's too late, And that is life
is very precious. It happens in moments, not seconds, not minutes,
not hours, but in moments. And let us forgive, but let us
never forget as we move from ashes to understanding. As a result of the
evidence uncovered by the making of this documentary, both the US Senate and House
of Representatives have opened new investigations, which are expected to result in full congressional
hearings. This is a long time I go, though. In addition,
US Attorney General Janet Reno has appointed former Senator John Danforth to conduct a full
and independent investigation to determine the facts behind the Waco tragedy, all of them.
All right, that's the end of it. He's playing music at the
end, I believe here the rest of it. Let me just don't check,
make sure, and I'm off him. I'm pretty sure it's just music
as a thing. Yeah, let me see. Yeah, it's solid music
at the end. Okay, So there you have it. I don't know
if I have anything I need to say after all that pretty emotional throughout that
I'm not afraid to say it. I can't stan seeing kids getting hurt.
All right, Well that's that. You'll see me again. It's pretty soon
with the return of Jack Anthony, a good friend of ours, for the
Jack Anthony Show that I'll be coming up in a live stream as soon as
my daughter goes to bed. Bye oh yeah, and looks at the bottom.
If you want to help people out, and you can go to supper
Fry lc dot com and get the link by clicking the picture of doctor Bonzo
to go druxy to the site and then to keep on couids right there for
you know what. All right,