1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:09,640 Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol, an 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,720 idea. The population of atheists this country is going through the rule, rejecting 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,879 faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I tell the truth, 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,960 it's because I tell the truth, not because I put my hand on a 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:29,320 book and made a wish and working together for a more rational world. Take 6 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:33,640 the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness. Truth Usian wisdom will 7 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:41,320 come to you that way. Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. 8 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:56,960 This is the Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews. We did a 9 00:00:57,079 --> 00:01:02,560 show recently on the awfulness of talk Carlson. You can find it in the 10 00:01:02,679 --> 00:01:08,280 archives. It aired last year as I went back twenty years to find soundbites, 11 00:01:08,359 --> 00:01:15,680 quotes, opinions, perspectives, and just general toxicity from this former Fox 12 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:21,319 News prime time host who is now just running around saying awful things as a 13 00:01:21,359 --> 00:01:26,840 freelancer and on his own terms. He just did the Joe Rogan podcast and 14 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:32,560 I had to talk about it with my brother and the Lord arn Raw, 15 00:01:32,599 --> 00:01:37,480 fellow atheist activist and an educator, specifically on well, you do a lot 16 00:01:37,519 --> 00:01:42,599 of palaeontology, I know, but Darwin's theory of evolution. Arren, hey, 17 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,319 brother, and good to see you man, Thank you you too. 18 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,599 I have so many I mean, you caught me on a day we were 19 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,560 up all night with the storms. I'm not rested, I'm cranky, I'm 20 00:01:53,599 --> 00:01:59,680 sweary, and so I'm going to say that I am so frustrated at the 21 00:01:59,719 --> 00:02:05,920 peaceeople who just love goddamn fucking Joe Rogan. I listened to him talk to 22 00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:10,960 Tucker Carlson and it was about all kinds of crazy stuff, and he just 23 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,159 he does this thing Joe does where he's like, right, oh, interesting, 24 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:21,199 and if he pushes back, he pushes back just a dent and then 25 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,639 he says nothing else. In fact, let me start with a clip as 26 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:31,479 they began the conversation talking about UFOs and the Bible. No, it's not 27 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:38,759 American technology well, or Russian or Chinese. It predates you know all of 28 00:02:38,759 --> 00:02:40,639 that, Well, some of it does, right, Like for sure, 29 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:46,080 the Kenneth Arnold sightings that was really early on, that was like the nineteen 30 00:02:46,159 --> 00:02:50,639 early nineteen fifties. He was seeing these flying saucers, these discs that were 31 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,759 moving over mountains. Well, right, I mean the prophet Ezekiel writes about 32 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,080 it in the first chapter Wheels in the Sky. Yeah, that's a crazy 33 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,639 one. Well it is crazy if you read it, it's like, oh 34 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:06,719 wow, you know, and so not just you know the Hebrew scriptures, 35 00:03:06,759 --> 00:03:12,639 like it's all over every Vedic texts of course. So these are spiritual phenomenon. 36 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,319 There's no evidence there from another planet. I mean, I think that's 37 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:21,080 the op that's the lie, that they're from Mars. Look space. The 38 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,560 atmosphere is really well monitored, right, both for military for defense reasons, 39 00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:30,120 but also because it would be nice to know when asteroids are coming. And 40 00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:32,000 there's no evidence, has never been any evidence that there are lots of these 41 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:37,159 objects, these vehicles coming into our atmosphere from somewhere else in other planet. 42 00:03:37,159 --> 00:03:40,800 There's no evidence of that at all. H So they're from here, and 43 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:46,840 they've been here for thousands of years, whatever they are, And it's pretty 44 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,520 clear to me that there are spiritual entities whatever that means, are supernatural, 45 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:57,159 and which is to say supernaturalis means above the natural, above the observable of 46 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:05,159 nature, and they don't behave according to the laws of sciences as measured by 47 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:11,159 people, you know, and they've been here for a long time, and 48 00:04:11,159 --> 00:04:13,759 there's a ton of evidence that are under the ocean and under the ground. 49 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,759 So like with that fact set, what do you conclude? Lots do unpack 50 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:23,879 arin So he's talking about the Bible and the Vedis and for thousands of years 51 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,480 people have seen shit, but it can't be from outer space, but it 52 00:04:27,519 --> 00:04:30,399 is buried under the ground in the oceans. I remember when I was when 53 00:04:30,399 --> 00:04:33,519 I was a kid, when I was like twelve or thirteen, and I 54 00:04:33,519 --> 00:04:39,720 had or maybe even eleven, when I when I referenced the Bible for something 55 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,759 about a shield in the sky, that somebody had seen a shield in the 56 00:04:42,759 --> 00:04:45,959 sky. I can't remember because what what translation I was even reading at that 57 00:04:46,079 --> 00:04:54,879 time. But I don't know what all of these phenomena are, or if 58 00:04:54,920 --> 00:05:00,959 in fact they are all the same thing. So I'm not going to say 59 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,639 that they are extraterrestrial, nor am I going to say that they are spiritual, 60 00:05:04,759 --> 00:05:15,319 whatever that means. Yeah, because there's there is no spirit. No, 61 00:05:15,439 --> 00:05:17,040 there can be optical illusions, there could be a number of other things, 62 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:23,000 maybe things we haven't even happened across. I would think that a lot 63 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:28,120 of these phenomena are a mix of different things. You know, I've heard. 64 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,879 My own family has given me their observations of what they called the UFOs, 65 00:05:31,959 --> 00:05:34,959 and on at least two of those occasions it turned out to be the 66 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:41,920 northern lights. They just didn't know what the northern lights were. Okay, 67 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,079 so it's awesome. No, it's awesome. Every time somebody throws a frisbee 68 00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:50,079 into the air and takes a photograph. The people who want to believe will 69 00:05:50,199 --> 00:05:57,800 believe. I am also, this is absolutely true. There is someone in 70 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,399 my family, a devout biblever, who is convinced, and people are going 71 00:06:02,439 --> 00:06:06,839 to think I'm making this up, who is convinced that the UFO sightings are 72 00:06:06,879 --> 00:06:13,120 the UAP sidings are. The unidentified things are in fact spacecraft, but they 73 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:19,040 are not carrying extra terrestrials. They are carrying or being piloted by the Nephelum 74 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:26,079 as referenced in the Book of Genesis, right, the giants. We're talking 75 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,199 about the angels who came down and fornicated with human women, and then there 76 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,639 were giants around the time of Noah's ark. And she believes, this adult 77 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:43,000 woman with a college edic of a master's degree, she believes that these spaceships 78 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,399 will land Nephelm are going to come out and they are in league with the 79 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,879 Catholic Church, so they and the Pope are apparently going to go and have 80 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:57,920 a kagger and plan the apocalypse. It's just jacked up. So to hear 81 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,319 somebody reference the Bible, know, the Ezekiel, to me just blows my 82 00:07:01,439 --> 00:07:05,399 mind. Well, I noticed that he said that there's when he's talking about 83 00:07:05,399 --> 00:07:11,680 that there's no evidence of transitional species, or of Darwinian mechanisms or whatever, 84 00:07:12,519 --> 00:07:15,240 or just evolution in general. But he also uses the exact same tone of 85 00:07:15,319 --> 00:07:21,000 voice when he says that there's no evidence of the different type, different possible 86 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:26,519 natures for unidentified flying objects. You know that he was there's no evidence, 87 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,920 there's no evidence of that at all. But that's that's exactly what he said 88 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,480 about transitional species. So now hang on, let me make sure I'm understanding. 89 00:07:34,519 --> 00:07:40,040 Forgive me. He's saying there is no evidence that it is from out 90 00:07:40,399 --> 00:07:46,199 there, outer space, beyond our atmosphere. Yeah, so if we're if 91 00:07:46,199 --> 00:07:51,399 we're we've seen where some of these UFOs are actually photographed in space, you 92 00:07:51,439 --> 00:07:56,519 know, so I mean plenty out there and buy out there. We couldn't 93 00:07:56,519 --> 00:08:00,319 mean the entirety of the cosmos. There can be all kinds of it, 94 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,120 not not intelligently designed, but you know, there can be phenomenon that produces 95 00:08:07,079 --> 00:08:11,759 lights certainly, you know, even what we perceive to be objects, the 96 00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:15,160 things that like. There was one that was recently analyzed. It was we 97 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:20,000 talk about how it flew fantastically fast, so much faster than everything that we 98 00:08:20,079 --> 00:08:26,920 own, and then they realize that it's a forced perspective situation where the ocean 99 00:08:28,279 --> 00:08:31,080 far on the other side of this object is moving very fast because you're turning 100 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,440 your camera to follow this object, and so it looks like the ocean is 101 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,480 moving at this ridiculous speed, when in fact the object isn't going anywhere near 102 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,960 that speed. And so if they're not all the same thing, if they 103 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,200 don't require all one explanation, you know, there can be many. I 104 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,200 mean, like I said, in one case, somebody mistook you know, 105 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,080 the Northern lights or whatever. Who knows what object they might have been seeing. 106 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,320 It could have been space de breed that they might have been photographing from 107 00:09:00,399 --> 00:09:07,039 the International Space Station or whatever. There can be optical illusion lights. There 108 00:09:07,039 --> 00:09:09,799 can be a number of different things involved. And I would say that that 109 00:09:09,919 --> 00:09:13,159 Joe Rogan was on the ball with one thing where he said that a lot 110 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:18,679 of this could be technology that we have that maybe not even our own government 111 00:09:18,799 --> 00:09:22,519 knows all about, because if you want to keep something secret, you don't 112 00:09:22,519 --> 00:09:26,840 tell a lot of people, and you certainly wouldn't be telling a lot of 113 00:09:26,879 --> 00:09:33,039 government officials. I just love the fact that beyond the planet space agencies like 114 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:39,000 World Space Agencies, Tucker Carlson is apparently mapped the hundreds of billions of galaxies 115 00:09:39,279 --> 00:09:41,759 in the universe to be able to just say nah, nah, absolutely, 116 00:09:41,799 --> 00:09:48,159 it's totally impossible. It must be something biblical that's buried in the ocean and 117 00:09:48,759 --> 00:09:52,879 under the ground. Do you remember where they announced the SR seventy one when 118 00:09:52,919 --> 00:09:56,399 they revealed that to the public. I do not. The SR seventy one, 119 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,519 I'm guessing, is what a planeplane. It's a mock three plus byplane. 120 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,399 It goes as ridiculous speed at an incredible altitude, so it's virtually undetectable, 121 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,440 or was undetectable at the time that it was an operation. They didn't 122 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,720 announce that to the public until the early eighties, I think, and it 123 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:20,879 had already been in service for like twenty years they were using this thing, 124 00:10:20,919 --> 00:10:24,480 I think late in the Vietnam saga. They've had it for a while. 125 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,919 So all the while that they're bragging that they're breaking the sound barrier, and 126 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,720 they can. They have planes that can go faster than sound, they don't 127 00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:35,679 tell you how much faster than sound. They don't tell you that they've got 128 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,759 something that rides on the edge of the orbit where that rides on the edge 129 00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:43,960 of the atmosphere and can go mock three plus and they won't even tell you 130 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:48,759 how fast it goes. But it can cover the United States in thirty minutes, 131 00:10:50,039 --> 00:10:56,559 and they don't tell you that until it's been decommissioned, declassified or decommissioned. 132 00:10:56,919 --> 00:11:01,159 Well, it wasn't. It wasn't being used as a spyplane anymore, 133 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,919 is what they're telling us. So now, at the risk of sounding paranoid, 134 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,399 I'm thinking, you didn't tell us that this thing existed in the twenty 135 00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:13,759 years that it's been in operation. And now you say, well, we've 136 00:11:13,799 --> 00:11:16,840 had this thing for twenty years. We just didn't tell you. But now 137 00:11:16,919 --> 00:11:20,879 you know that this thing exists, And I'm thinking, wouldn't you have replaced 138 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:28,080 that Oh you know yet, that secret we have something else, And like 139 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,360 I said, I don't want to be paranoid about it. I just it's 140 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:35,399 likely if they kept that secret, what's the chances that they have some other 141 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,080 type of technology that they haven't announced yet. I pulled up that classic quote 142 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:46,440 from Arthur C. Clark. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. 143 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,039 Okay, I don't want to interrupt the next thought, which is going to 144 00:11:52,039 --> 00:11:54,679 be a long win, and we'll start with a clip from Tucker Carlson explaining 145 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:01,720 why evolution is crap, and then get are In Raw to weigh in next. 146 00:12:13,039 --> 00:12:16,360 Talking here to my buddy arn Raw, we're speaking about the April nineteenth 147 00:12:16,519 --> 00:12:26,440 interview with Tucker Carlson on the Joe Rogan podcast. He believes that all of 148 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:33,559 those generations passed were wiser, smarter, more enlightened, even more educated than 149 00:12:33,799 --> 00:12:41,440 we are, and they rightly embraced biblical creation, whereas we went into evolution 150 00:12:41,639 --> 00:12:46,080 for which there is no evidence and science is walking away. Here's a clip. 151 00:12:46,879 --> 00:12:52,519 I don't actually think that individuals. I don't think I'm that important. 152 00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:54,679 My life is that important. I don't I will die. I know that, 153 00:12:54,759 --> 00:12:56,120 and I try to keep that in mind every day but you're important to 154 00:12:56,159 --> 00:13:00,360 everybody that cares about you. You're important to the people. But if we 155 00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:03,480 don't think, if we don't think people are important, then what do we 156 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:05,639 think is important? I guess that's what I'm not necessarily that we don't think 157 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,639 people are important. But if evolution is real, and if there is, 158 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:15,639 this is instant, I don't know, but it's it's it's visible, like 159 00:13:15,879 --> 00:13:18,720 you can measure it in certain animals. You can measure adaptation. Yeah, 160 00:13:18,879 --> 00:13:22,480 but there's no evidence that. In fact, I think we've kind of given 161 00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:24,759 up on the idea of evolution. The theory of evolution is articulated by Darwin 162 00:13:24,919 --> 00:13:30,039 is like kind of not true and in what sense, Well, in the 163 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,039 most basic sense, the idea that you know, all life emerged from a 164 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,480 single cell organism and over time and there would be a fossil record of that, 165 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:43,240 and there's not. There's not a fossil record of transitionary species like species 166 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:48,240 that are adapting to its environments. Tons of record of adaptation, and you 167 00:13:48,279 --> 00:13:50,879 see it in your own life. I mean, I have a lot of 168 00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:56,080 dogs. I see adaptation and dogs, you know, through the shore litter 169 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,159 to litter. But no, there's no evidence at all, that non zero 170 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,720 that you know, people, you know, evolve seamlessly from a single cell, 171 00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:09,639 Amiba, No, there's not, there's not there's no chain in the 172 00:14:09,639 --> 00:14:13,279 fossil record of that at all. And that's why you don't actually hear people 173 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,480 you hear to make reference to evolution, because the theory of adaptation is clearly 174 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:22,679 obviously true, but Darwin's theories totally and that's why it's still a theory almost 175 00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:26,360 two hundred years later. You know, No, we have not found that 176 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,320 at all, and I can't even guess. I mean, I have my 177 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,159 own theories on it, but they're not proven. What are your theories? 178 00:14:33,679 --> 00:14:37,879 God created people, you know distinctly and animals? I mean, I think 179 00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:41,919 that's like, I think what every person on Earth thought until the mid nineteenth 180 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,799 century actually right, But it's not a new idea. They didn't have computers, 181 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,679 they didn't have a general understanding that we have today of the process. 182 00:14:50,919 --> 00:14:54,320 Do you think we understand more now? Yes? Really you don't think that 183 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,679 we understand more today. They stand way less. We understand so little that 184 00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:05,360 we're actually sitting here allowing like a bunch of greedy, stupid, childless, 185 00:15:05,679 --> 00:15:13,399 childless software engineers in northern California to flirt with the extinction of mankind, so 186 00:15:13,559 --> 00:15:18,919 no previous generations would be like what, no, stop now when he's talking 187 00:15:18,919 --> 00:15:22,919 about the childless software engineers. The front part of that clip, they were 188 00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:28,519 talking about AI and how we are creating what could be a runaway I don't 189 00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:33,120 know, technology that might surpass us, become a god, wipe us out. 190 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:39,080 I think Tucker actually suggested that we drop nuclear weapons on all the data 191 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:43,879 centers where AI is being developed. I'm sure there won't be any literal fallout 192 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:48,080 from that. But when he this is an example of Joe Rogan just sort 193 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:54,039 of chuckling because he's talking about evolution Tucker and he says evolution is real. 194 00:15:56,279 --> 00:16:03,320 Tucker says, is it? Everything that Carlson said about evolution, every every 195 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,360 single sentence was wrong. I mean where he says we don't have any evidence, 196 00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:11,240 where he says that there's no there's no fossil record of that. When 197 00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:14,840 he when he's just absolutely every single sentence, he said, well that's why 198 00:16:14,879 --> 00:16:18,080 it's still a theory two hundred years later. Just all of it is wrong. 199 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,960 Let me tee you up to go point by point, all right, 200 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:27,039 there's no evidence that all life, especially human life, specifically human life, 201 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:33,840 originated from a cell, an original cell. Yeah, embryology, we all 202 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,320 we you know, somebody was telling me that, one of the believers was 203 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,200 telling me, you know that I didn't come from a you know, a 204 00:16:40,559 --> 00:16:42,480 single cell. I didn't come from a drop of gou And I'm like, 205 00:16:42,519 --> 00:16:45,679 really, how were you? How were you created them? Because all of 206 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:52,440 the rest of us were formed from spermatozoa, from a zigo, from a 207 00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:56,960 drop of goo. And the guy was very confused by that. And then 208 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,200 when you get into as I did my fifty part series on the systematic classification 209 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:07,920 of life, I explained the taxonomy for human evolution. And then where I 210 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,759 would throw in, okay, embryological evidence, here's genetic evidence, here's fossil 211 00:17:11,799 --> 00:17:18,440 evidence, and so on. And here's where we've pinpointed beneficial mutations and identified 212 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,039 them as where exactly they are on the code on and when what this was 213 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,119 a you know, this was a missense you mutation that resulted in this this 214 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,720 feature, and and and and here's er vs that we share in common not 215 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:33,279 just with other apes, but with what with the other Old world monkeys and 216 00:17:33,279 --> 00:17:37,240 so forth. I include all of this data. It's like nine and a 217 00:17:37,279 --> 00:17:41,440 half hours worth of viewing. And this is this is all the evidence that 218 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,720 the Tucker Carlson says doesn't exist at all. I mean none, zero, 219 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:52,319 And I'm doing this is a summary. This is the briefest summary I can 220 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,720 give, and I don't even have a master's degree, much less a PhD. 221 00:17:56,839 --> 00:18:02,000 I'm giving you the bachelor level of the information. If you want to 222 00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:06,480 get more advanced in that, there's a fucked ton more that I didn't show 223 00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:11,200 that he's where he's talking about. That there's none. So we have overwhelming 224 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:18,599 evidence from a whole bunch of different fields for the commonality, you know, 225 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,880 like the single cell organ at least for a last universal common ancestor. I 226 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:29,319 would say, what applies at least for eukaryots, Maybe not for the procrits, 227 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:37,480 because evolution is by definition and ancestor descendant relationship, and with unicellular microbes 228 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:42,599 you get a lot of horizontal gene transfer and other processes like endosymbiosis where one 229 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:48,359 cell engulfs another and then they start working in symbiosis. There's there, and 230 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,200 these are not They're not evolution in the traditional sense of being an ancestor descendant 231 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:59,640 relationship. There's not a lineage there, nor even a branching tree pattern. 232 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:06,279 And in fact, the branching tree that we recognize for Eukaria arises out of 233 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,200 what would be better described as a as a network, like a like a 234 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:15,839 spider web, rather than a root, if that makes any sense. But 235 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,319 there's a there's a lot of complexity there, but we have we have the 236 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:25,400 evidence to indicate that we do. What we don't have any evidence for at 237 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:30,480 all is his creation by God. And in fact, we have a whole 238 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,680 lot of evidence that the narrative that he's citing for the creation by God, 239 00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:38,519 we have evidence against that. So no evidence for it, plenty of evidence 240 00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:45,319 against it. He says that these these these extraterrestrial beings are spiritual, right 241 00:19:45,759 --> 00:19:49,440 we have we don't. It's not just that we don't have evidence of spiritual 242 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:56,119 anythings, it's that we have substantial evidence against them, and specifically for the 243 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:03,640 soul. I've interviewed a handful of philosophers and neuroscientists. I've interviewed Patricia Churchland 244 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,839 recently to seized, Daniel Dennett, a handful of other neuroscientists, and they've 245 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,079 all come to the same conclusion. Everyone that has talked to me has said 246 00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:19,000 that there's no support at all for mind body dualism, neither in philosophy nor 247 00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:25,079 in neuroscience right exactly where it would be. If such things were real, 248 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,240 there would be evidence in neuroscience of it, and instead what we have is 249 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,400 profound evidence to the contrary, that everything about your personality or quality, that 250 00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:40,119 the essence of what is yourself who you are, can be physically manipulated by 251 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:45,680 drugs, by trauma, by degradation or disease, things like this. So 252 00:20:45,279 --> 00:20:51,200 there's no spirit, there's no soul, there's no magic. All of the 253 00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:57,319 combined religions together can't show that there's a there there. Not only are they 254 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,200 violently at war with each other as to what each group wants to make believe, 255 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,039 but they can't show that the common thing they agree on exists. They 256 00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:11,440 can't even show that that there if. I often say this that if there 257 00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:19,119 was a supernatural aspect of the universe, there would be some indication of that 258 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,599 and people. So you can't. You can't ask for physical evidence of a 259 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,279 supernatural thing. Yeah, you can. If magic existed, you would have 260 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:33,279 gandolf Obi wan Hermione you know, Spock, these people would be showing that 261 00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:37,880 you can actually do a mind meld. You can actually you can actually do 262 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,079 these you can demonstrate this to some reliable ways. Okay, so science can't 263 00:21:42,079 --> 00:21:47,119 explain it. Can we verify that it's there? I don't have to know 264 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,720 how to explain it. It can remain completely inexplicable by science. When when 265 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:56,680 a faith healer walks into a child a child cancer center, and then all 266 00:21:56,759 --> 00:22:00,519 of the children's children children's cancer goes into remos, and every time he walks 267 00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:04,720 in and does this, I'm going to have to concede that, Hey, 268 00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:07,759 there's a there there, that's a thing that happens. I mean, why 269 00:22:07,839 --> 00:22:14,200 is this guy only doing these tent revival things where he's breaking in the money 270 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,640 from all these roubs. Why doesn't he ever actually walk into children's medical center 271 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,079 and do some fucking good Why does that never happen? Was because it's not 272 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,440 real? Well, you bring up a salient point that doesn't get brought up 273 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:30,400 enough. Doctor Julian Mussolino has written a book called The Soul Fallacy, and 274 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:37,359 he made the point that you have made. It's that the soul interacting with 275 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,720 the physical would still be there would be a point of interaction there something measurable. 276 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:48,119 The way I put it is that whenever God reaches his immaterial hand into 277 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,720 the prime material plane to affect some physical change, he pulls his arm out, 278 00:22:52,759 --> 00:22:57,039 dripping with physics, you would see a physical response to some sort of 279 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:02,960 agent that is outside side the physical It's the same reason that who was the 280 00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:07,000 gentleman who had the pipe. He had some sort of an industrial accident and 281 00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:12,640 the rod goes through his brain and it damages his brain and he begins to 282 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:18,799 exhibit personality changes. It's because the physical brain was his essence, so to 283 00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:22,599 speak, no magic required. It's funny listening to Tucker Carlson, I was 284 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:29,759 reminded of Christopher Hitchens talking to another Fox News host, Sean Hannity, who 285 00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:33,200 was saying the most asinine things and asking what you and I know are rude, 286 00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:37,319 aimentary questions, And he said, you give me the impression of someone 287 00:23:37,319 --> 00:23:42,319 who has never heard any position against your opinion ever, Like you sound like 288 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:48,240 someone who has never had these conversations. So when when Tucker says, it's 289 00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:51,400 just a theory, that's why, at two hundred years later, evolution is 290 00:23:51,559 --> 00:23:53,160 just a theory I mean, come on, people are walking away. How 291 00:23:53,200 --> 00:24:02,000 would you respond, Well, Democritus proposed twenty five hundred years ago that all 292 00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:07,720 elements, all compounds, can be broken down into elements, but that the 293 00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:11,160 element can only be broken down to what he called an atom. This is 294 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:17,519 what he theorized. That the atom is the smallest divisible element of the smallest 295 00:24:17,599 --> 00:24:22,319 indivisible part of any element that still retains the chemical properties of that element. 296 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:33,079 So that's atomic theory, and it's still a theory thousands of years later because 297 00:24:33,079 --> 00:24:38,680 it's never been proven, because science has a rule that no theory can ever 298 00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:42,960 be proven, because if you prove something, well, then you stop looking 299 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,759 into it, don't you, And you're never going to improve. You're never 300 00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:51,559 going to improve if you prove. If that makes any sense, well, 301 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,440 hang on, I mean if I say that evolution has been proven, if 302 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,680 I say it even in the more colloquial sense, I mean there's utility in 303 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,799 that world there. I mean, it has been demonstrated, it has not 304 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,480 been debunked, et cetera. The problem is this. The problem is that 305 00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:15,519 science has this definition that proof. Absolute proof only exists in mathematics, So 306 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:21,279 absolute proof cannot exist in science. Science is not mathematics. They're closely joined. 307 00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:26,119 They work communism, but they are different disciplines. But when people are 308 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,480 talking about whether it's been proven, yeah, they're not using that that term. 309 00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:34,920 They're using the colloquial thing. They're using the notion of a more. 310 00:25:36,279 --> 00:25:42,559 It's not absolute proof, it's a provisional proof. It's it's according to an 311 00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:48,119 overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond reasonable doubt, to a point where a jury would 312 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,200 would uniformly agree that, yeah, this is the If this theory is true, 313 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,799 then we should see this, this and this. We actually do see 314 00:25:55,839 --> 00:26:00,799 this, this and that. So yeah, effectively that evolution has been proven, 315 00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:07,680 Einstein's relativity has been proven, and of course atomic theory had been proven 316 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,240 even before Oppenheimer, even before they set off the bomb, germ theory, 317 00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:15,920 all those, Yeah, you had the cell theory of disease and all of 318 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,960 that, and yeah, these remain theories, they are also facts. But 319 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,599 then we have such a fundamental misunderstanding of science that people would think that a 320 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,599 theory is just a guess. Like Tucker says, well, I have my 321 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,720 own theories about No, those are first of all, they're not theories at 322 00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:37,839 all, because science considers that a theory is not a guess. It's a 323 00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:41,519 body of knowledge. It's a field of study. That's what a theory is. 324 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,400 In my high school, for example, they taught a class in music 325 00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:52,240 theory. And I remember, just because I was an obnoxious kid, I 326 00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:55,960 through the door open one day during class. I wasn't in the class. 327 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,400 I just burst into the class to interrupt them, and I said, you 328 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:06,599 can't teach music in school just a theory. It's never been proven. You 329 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,000 were that guy even as a young person, like the Seeds of Rebellion, 330 00:27:11,519 --> 00:27:18,720 and you were a contrarian even back then a little bit. Yeah, But 331 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,960 I want to bring up something else that that that Tucker had mentioned when you 332 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:29,319 mentioned that, it's like he's never talked to he's never talked to an evolutionary 333 00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:33,160 biologist. That seems evident for him to say, no evidence of that at 334 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,720 all, nuns zero, right, He's clearly never spoken to anybody who knows 335 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,079 dick about this subject. But then he goes on about how the left, 336 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,240 because you know he has to. He says it's binary. He says everything 337 00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:52,000 is binary, and that's the problem, and he wants to divide everything between 338 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:59,039 good and evil. So when he was talking about these the whoever is, 339 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,680 who were whatever is involved in the UFOs, you know, he's just deciding 340 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,960 that they're spiritual, he's decided that they're beings. These are all assumptions. 341 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,119 And then he says that it's binary whether these beings are good or evil. 342 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:17,400 Well, it's if it were that these uh, these phenomena are at the 343 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,039 hands of some agent, and these are beings of whatever type, then they, 344 00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:27,920 like us, will not be binary. You know, there's this there's 345 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:37,240 this curve. I forget that, the the I forget what it's called. 346 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,160 But but you know, most people actually side right around the middle, and 347 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:47,519 it's it's harder and harder to reach either extreme where he thinks everybody is, 348 00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:51,960 and that everybody's either at this extreme or at this extreme, when virtually nobody 349 00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:56,039 is at those extremes. They're all more or less intimately, and that you 350 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,839 have to be more and more radical to get closer to the extremes where he 351 00:28:59,839 --> 00:29:03,079 thinks everybody is. So it's not a matter of being binary that it's good 352 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,599 or evil. If these were beings, then like us, they're going to 353 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,920 be They're going to be a mix, and they're going to have a certainly 354 00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:15,480 you know, different nuance, and we will completely agree with them on this 355 00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:18,160 point and this point, but maybe not so much that one. And maybe 356 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,119 they have this completely aberrant idea over there. It's not just that the world 357 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,880 is not just black or white. It's not just that there's a spec that 358 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:32,599 there's a gray scale, there's a spectrum of color. There's so many other 359 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,640 things to consider that in a binary mindset, like t Tucker keeps reverting back 360 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,400 to, you can't even begin to conceive all or you consider all these things. 361 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,599 So when you talked about politically, he's divided everything binary again, and 362 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,480 so it's just the left versus the right. And of course it has to 363 00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:52,799 be the far right versus the far left, because we can't have moderates. 364 00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:56,839 You liberals become the same thing as leftists. And that's just the way you 365 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:04,000 divide everything moderate right wingers, because far leftists and all of that. And 366 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:10,319 he wants to put a category on whether whether the opposition then is good or 367 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,119 evil. So of course he's decided he's good, therefore left is evil. 368 00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:18,000 And when he's talking about AI, then he's talked about how these uh, 369 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,759 did these people have no problem with AI. He has a problem with AI, 370 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,799 and the leftists don't have a problem with AI. I've yet to meet 371 00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:32,799 a leftist who did not have a problem with AI. Seriously, Well, 372 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,160 let's say concerns, and I want to be clear, I don't I'm not 373 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,960 just talking about the paranoid aspect of AI, that we've created something that is 374 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,920 that is too smart to to be controlled and all like that. That could 375 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,920 be a reasonable thing to worry about in the future. My issue, I 376 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,960 have several other issues with AI that don't have anything to do with that. 377 00:30:56,119 --> 00:31:02,319 It's it's the way that the AI produces artworkwild you know, by by basically 378 00:31:02,319 --> 00:31:06,279 plagiarizing all these other artwork projects and piecing things together so that you can just 379 00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:11,240 have an easy cheat on the So there's an ethical thing with AI the way 380 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,720 it's being implemented dealt with, and the AI that we have now is not 381 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:21,119 even AI that people worry about, you know, there's wholly different categories there. 382 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,160 Apparently all the people developing AI decided to not have families or not have 383 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:32,960 children either. It's amazing how he apparently has surveyed she's canvassed the entire technological 384 00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:38,160 landscape to see, and those who are childless are than what I mean. 385 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,759 I've got a couple of lovely step children. I don't I never parented a 386 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:48,440 child. I qualify as child less. I guess in that way somehow that's 387 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,440 supposed to diminish me, is it? Does it diminish me morally? I 388 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,200 mean, I'm trying to figure out what his point is. Yeah, well, 389 00:31:56,359 --> 00:31:57,839 she doesn't want me to identify her on this, I'm sure, But 390 00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:02,880 I know somebody who was a mother of three who's working the development of AI 391 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,640 and she has problems with it. She's working for the development of AI and 392 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,079 she has problems with AI, as does everybody on her team, as does 393 00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:16,519 everybody that reviews her work. Everybody has a problem with AI. Well, 394 00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:20,960 I don't mean to derat we are talking evolution. I'm one of those guys 395 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:27,279 that I have used AI tools like to partition out shows, and there have 396 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,200 been some times when I couldn't find the art that I needed for something. 397 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,519 I try to filter AI out of my image searches when I'm using stock images, 398 00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:38,119 but there have been times when I had no other choice and has been 399 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:43,319 a resource. But at the same time, I feel the way you do. 400 00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:47,559 I used an AI image because somebody, the person that I was addressing, 401 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,359 had used this image of based their argument on this image, and so 402 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:58,839 I used it. And I was criticized for using their image against them because 403 00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:05,119 they use that image. I'm not promoting AI they did. I'm just showing 404 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,799 you what they created that where they created this. But there's so much criticism 405 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,079 about it. To say that nobody on the left has any problem with AI 406 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:19,039 is just is myopic and stupid and wrong. There are two issues concerns that 407 00:33:19,119 --> 00:33:22,160 I have, and I don't want to become my parents, you know, 408 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,359 we're like these kids today. But I don't think this falls into the same 409 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,079 category. The first reason is the one that you mentioned where instead of being 410 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:37,319 a tool for the human creation, you know, art and expression and writing 411 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,359 and painting and music and all these things that I think are part of the 412 00:33:42,519 --> 00:33:52,079 human experience, and when machines replace us in that way by often plagiarizing stuff 413 00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:55,599 that has already been done and mixing it into a soup and taking the human 414 00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,440 element out of this wonderful form of express and I have real concerns, you 415 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,920 know, I think technology should serve us, not replace us, unless it's 416 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,599 a menial task. You know, they become the calculators that help us to 417 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,400 do what we do more efficiently. The second thing is, I think we're 418 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:21,159 moving so freaking fast. What's that line from Jurassic Park, right signedists, 419 00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:24,719 we're so busy doing it because they could they didn't stop to think if they 420 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:30,800 should. I'm not sure we've stopped to assess the implications of what we're making. 421 00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:36,360 So I have another friend, my best friend of all time, was 422 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:42,639 doing He was driving for Lyft or uber or one of these, and they're 423 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:50,840 testing self driving cars in Phoenix, and so he's paid to not drive a 424 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,119 car. He sits in the passenger seat. He's supposed to monitor everything. 425 00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:58,880 You can't. If you touch your phone at all, you get fired. 426 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,639 You have to be paying attention to the road. All of that. Well, 427 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,960 somebody, one of these self driving cars ran over somebody at one point, 428 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:15,039 and the whole project gets scrapped. And they look at the driver of 429 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:16,800 this driverless car, and at the moment that they hit that person, he 430 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,800 was looking down. He wasn't looking at the road, and so the whole 431 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,039 project is scrapped. Somebody got killed. That's the end of it. That's 432 00:35:24,079 --> 00:35:29,440 you know, we're not going to have self driving cars yet. You were 433 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:35,280 an American atheist in Phoenix, you saw downtown you had that little that cab 434 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,960 driving around by itself with the lie dar thing on the roof. It's exactly 435 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,719 what my friend was driving or not driving. They went ahead with it anyway, 436 00:35:43,199 --> 00:35:45,519 it didn't matter. And what they did was they just took the human 437 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,239 out of it. They had a human in the car that was supposed to 438 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,840 prevent this from happening. The human didn't prevent it from happening, so they 439 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,679 removed the human and just let the car drive around downtown by itself anyway. 440 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,800 And you order the car with an app, you know, the car pulls 441 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,480 up, you get in, and then it takes you where you're supposed to 442 00:36:06,519 --> 00:36:09,119 go, and all that, no driver at all. I don't know if 443 00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:13,519 I'm opposed to that. I mean, I would live in a minority report 444 00:36:13,559 --> 00:36:16,360 future where you could just make a car your living room, chill out and 445 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:22,159 whatnot. But let me help you with this, Okay, friend, I'm 446 00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:24,639 gonna put Tucker hang on, people, I gotta put talker over here for 447 00:36:24,679 --> 00:36:30,639 another three minutes. Go ahead, go ahead. My friend is again driving 448 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:37,360 for Uber ear lyft I get him confused whichever one it is. But that's 449 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,679 because he he needs a way to make money, and the other industries that 450 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,840 he was working in, it just it's easier for him to do this. 451 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:51,880 Then the cost benefit, the travel benefit, the commute of times and all 452 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,360 that, it's easier for him to do that. Now, what happens when 453 00:36:54,679 --> 00:37:00,559 he can't do that? Because he trained the machine to replace him and it 454 00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:05,199 replaced him, which is what's going to happen. So in Arizona, now 455 00:37:05,519 --> 00:37:08,719 there is a truck that's been driving from Tucson to Phoenix on it I think 456 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:13,000 a daily route. It's doing the same thing as that light our taxi downtown 457 00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:20,039 Phoenix. It drives by myself completely. When you replace the trucking industry with 458 00:37:20,159 --> 00:37:23,239 automated trucks, and you've replaced all the cashiers with automated cash you know, 459 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:28,920 to put the self scan thing right, how can we complain that there's not 460 00:37:29,079 --> 00:37:34,079 enough jobs when we've automated everything. When you've got forty five percent of the 461 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,719 of the workforce is in you know, driving something, whether it's trucks or 462 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:45,079 taxis or whatever's that's almost half. How can you say to go get a 463 00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:47,280 job, there's no jobs to get. So that's one of my complaints with 464 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,239 automation and with a Now everyone knows what it's like when we are at a 465 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:57,480 convention and I'm sitting at a table with a root beer and ur and is 466 00:37:57,599 --> 00:38:01,920 drinking something as thick as pens oil with a cryptic Viking name that probably has 467 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,320 fire coming out of it, and we start talking and you look up and 468 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:12,119 it's hours later. This is why. Because you put us in a room, 469 00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:15,800 you put ron in a room, and time time speeds up or slows 470 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:22,440 down. I can't really decide, but you are just that good. Coming 471 00:38:22,519 --> 00:38:27,800 up, I'm going to talk about a biogenesis, the first cell. Right, 472 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,880 there's a first cell argument, and that's where it all came from, 473 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:44,000 including us. I'm going to talk to arn about that next. My supporters 474 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,840 on Patreon get the show early and commercial free. You can sign up at 475 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:57,840 patreon dot com. Slash Seth Andrews continuing my conversation here with arn Raw, 476 00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:04,400 I want to talk about out a biogenesis. People say there must be a 477 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:10,159 creator because who created the first cell? It. Let's allow that everything came 478 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:15,440 from a single cell. Who made the cell? Hence, God, how 479 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:20,639 would you respond, well, almost every part of that is wrong too. 480 00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:25,119 That it's not that everything came from a single cell. There was never a 481 00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:31,960 point when it was just one and there was there's this there's this vast gray 482 00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:40,280 period as to whether these these first cells are alive or not. Because we've 483 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,960 got these precursor stages. People always want to say, you know, you've 484 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:50,039 got this powder that we just get this inorganic substance sand or whatever and just 485 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,079 pour it into this blender and out pops a rabbit. That's what they're asking. 486 00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:59,000 When when is science ever produced life from non life? They don't understand 487 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:05,760 that it is many different increments of different chemical processes in different in different environments. 488 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,679 There's different processes that are not even related to each other that can happen 489 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:14,920 sequentially but in different environments. So I've been following this a little bit. 490 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,800 I've got a list of a few dozen, or at least a couple dozen 491 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:22,639 of different peer reviewed studies for different aspects of this, for how this developed, 492 00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:25,960 how that other thing developed this one. And then you get up into 493 00:40:27,519 --> 00:40:32,039 homeostasis, which is like the final criteria when all of the chemical things going 494 00:40:32,039 --> 00:40:37,920 on in the cell have differentiated from the exterior of the cell to maintain a 495 00:40:38,039 --> 00:40:45,039 kind of temporary balance, and then we can call that life. But that's 496 00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:57,400 still although biochemistry is grotesquely unnecessarily complex, so complex and inefficient that the complexity 497 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,920 alone argues against a design that you wouldn't a designer wouldn't make something this bad. 498 00:41:04,599 --> 00:41:07,320 Okay, a designer would make something that worked better, more efficiently, 499 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,599 and wouldn't have all of these different parts. Is like this. You know 500 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:19,159 this is a haphazard compilation, that something this complicated could only happen by accident. 501 00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:23,880 Sure, the most effective efficient designs are whittled down to have the most 502 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:30,960 economy a few as necessary moving parts. Yet people see something that's wildly complicated 503 00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:37,039 and they say, well, the complexity proves design. No. An efficient 504 00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:40,800 simplicity would be the hallmark of an intelligent designer. And what we have throughout 505 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:49,079 biochemistry is just insane complexity and inefficiency. And the way that life developed was 506 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,480 not as the believers always want to say, it wasn't like in this. 507 00:41:53,480 --> 00:42:00,920 They imagine the world as it is today and then suddenly, poof something came 508 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,679 alive, and because they have to shorten everything, they always want to look 509 00:42:04,679 --> 00:42:08,480 at every evolutionary change. They want to say that an individual fish decided to 510 00:42:08,559 --> 00:42:13,760 grow legs and then walked out on the land. They want they want everything 511 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,760 to it's going to be an individual in the course of one lifetime, and 512 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:22,199 it has to be like, you know, one hundred million years worth of 513 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:27,280 diversity happening in one lifetime of that one individual. That there's no way you 514 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,079 can understand evolusion when you're trying so hard not to. How did a rabbit 515 00:42:31,159 --> 00:42:35,800 give birth to a kangaroo, give birth to a shark, give birth to 516 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,000 a primate, right, give birth to a monkey fish? Frug, Yeah, 517 00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:45,599 it's just weird. One of the resistances I hear out there is when 518 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,119 I say the human animal, you know, we're an animal, and a 519 00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:54,599 lot of believers blanch. They will physically blink where we're humans, there were 520 00:42:54,679 --> 00:43:00,920 humans and there are animals. And I try to explain how animals are categorized 521 00:43:01,039 --> 00:43:07,360 using my civilian knowledge base. I know you've had this conversation in much more 522 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:13,079 depth. I come to you and say, I ain't no animal. Ecclesiastes 523 00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:16,079 three eighteen to twenty one. The Bible admits that we are but beasts and 524 00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:22,360 that the only reason people will people refuse to acknowledge. This is our vanity. 525 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:27,920 That's what the Bible says. Well, describe or define animal a human 526 00:43:28,039 --> 00:43:32,719 animal? What makes me an animal? Well, the common definition biologically you'll 527 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:37,039 get a little bit of if you look it up in regular dictionaries. Some 528 00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:45,639 dictionaries will include unicellular life forms of like protests and such, they'll call unicellular 529 00:43:45,639 --> 00:43:49,960 animals. There's no such thing. By definition, all animals are multicellular. 530 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:58,159 They're mult multicellular eukaryotes with an internal digestive tract, meaning we're heterotroph We have 531 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:04,800 to we sustain ourselves by ingesting and digesting other living cells, so we can't 532 00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:09,239 reproduce, so we can't feed ourselves via photosynthesis. We can't exist on sunlight. 533 00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:15,360 We must consume external organisms to survive. That's one of the criteria for 534 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:20,840 an animal. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Really multicellular, you multicellular, 535 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,800 you carry it heterotrophe. Doesn't it have something to do with you know, 536 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,639 we have the symmetrical eyes and ears, arms, legs, et cetera. 537 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,840 We have most animals don't. No, I mean I know those flounder 538 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:38,400 doesn't educate me, Come on, educate Okay, Well there are they're like 539 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:45,800 tenophores that don't have any organs at all, and they have cilia with which 540 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,599 they move around. They can even produce lights and such, but they don't 541 00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:54,599 have actual organs, and they eat like every animal has to eat. The 542 00:44:54,639 --> 00:45:02,360 simplest animal is a sponge and that has a a system of tubes and cilia 543 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:09,960 that they attracted the their their food and and and and digested internally like everything 544 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:17,559 else. And there are a vast array of very simple animals that don't have 545 00:45:17,639 --> 00:45:22,960 eyes, that don't have any organs or that you know, or that have 546 00:45:22,119 --> 00:45:27,000 very few, and that just don't fit, and so many of them don't 547 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:32,000 move. Is it true that at some point in our development, both the 548 00:45:32,039 --> 00:45:37,480 top and the bottom, the front and back of me was just an asshole? 549 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:43,519 Is that true? That is the difference between protostomes and deuteros domes. 550 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:45,719 Well, of course, I mean that's what I was going to say. 551 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,400 I mean, next, but go ahead, I mean, I know what 552 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,719 you're I know what you're talking about. But go ahead and elaborate in a 553 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,320 common folk out there. Go ahead, for the when the when the zygot 554 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,679 first exists, when you of the two gammeats meat, and they produce a 555 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:06,360 zygot and it's a single cell. Now the cell starts multiplying. Now that 556 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:14,159 cluster of cells, the first structure to be developed is this invagination on one 557 00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:21,840 side that continues through to the other side. And so at least with nephros 558 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,840 I think it's nephrozoans that we have this passage that goes all the way through 559 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:32,159 where where things like sea and enemies and stuff like that, and jellyfish they 560 00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:37,719 don't they have a mouth that is also their anus, so they take food 561 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:38,840 in and have to expel it in the same place. But then we have 562 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:44,480 nephrozoans that the passage goes all the way through mouth on one side, anus 563 00:46:44,519 --> 00:46:49,480 on the other. And it's the difference in which one develops first. So 564 00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:54,039 in us, in humans, or at least in the classical definition of the 565 00:46:54,119 --> 00:47:01,599 deuterostome, that first structure, that first imagination, which eventually continues through to 566 00:47:01,639 --> 00:47:08,840 become the other whole, the tunnel through that first thing becomes your asshole. 567 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:17,039 And so there is a point when that is literally all we are. When 568 00:47:17,039 --> 00:47:23,039 I was a Christian, I remember thinking about evolution in terms of robbing me 569 00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:28,760 of my specialness. I was just a monkey. My granddaddy wasn't a monkey. 570 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,480 I don't know. And then of course the conversation is, well, 571 00:47:30,559 --> 00:47:34,840 I'm related to the monkey, but I am not a monkey. But you 572 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,800 disagree? Am I a monkey? Are? Right? Yeah? We all 573 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:44,280 are. A monkey is any member of the taxonomic sub order of Anthropoidia, 574 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,800 also known as Semiformes. In either place, it's the monkey clade. If 575 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:55,119 you describe what the diagnostic characteristics are that identify any monkey that applies to all 576 00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:01,440 universally accepted monkeys, then you're describing people. And then a subset of that. 577 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,599 You've got the Old World monkeys and the New World monkeys, and then 578 00:48:04,639 --> 00:48:08,360 there's some extinct groups too. But if you describe the Old World monkeys Katarini, 579 00:48:09,199 --> 00:48:14,320 all the diagnostic characteristics thereof is distinguished from the New World monkeys. Again, 580 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:20,760 you're describing people, and then there's another distinction. People often distinguish the 581 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,599 modern Old World monkeys from the apes, but there's a fossil group that is 582 00:48:24,639 --> 00:48:29,400 also Old World monkeys, pro play Epithecoidia that a lot of people neglect. 583 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,639 If you describe what those characteristics, you know it still applies to it to 584 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,559 us. If you describe what the subset of Old world monkeys called apes. 585 00:48:38,639 --> 00:48:45,480 That's any member of the taxonomic superfamily Hominoidia, and that's that's lesser apes and 586 00:48:45,519 --> 00:48:49,320 great apes. But if you if you describe what great apes are, that's 587 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:54,239 Hominidae. Again, you're describing people. And this is how the cladistics works. 588 00:48:53,639 --> 00:48:59,679 It includes all of our all of all of the descendants of a given 589 00:48:59,679 --> 00:49:04,079 group, without making any exceptions. This idea that I wasn't created by a 590 00:49:04,119 --> 00:49:08,800 divine king used to just I don't know, it diminished me. I'm just 591 00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:14,440 I came out of the muck. I'm as common as the other animals, 592 00:49:14,639 --> 00:49:17,639 you know, the lower things. And of course I had to totally change 593 00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:22,239 my perspective to see my connection with the living world as really, if, 594 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,119 for lack of a better word, even more miraculous, you know, if 595 00:49:25,159 --> 00:49:30,519 they're a natural miracle kind of thing. Where as imperfect as evolution is. 596 00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:37,400 I feel a greater connection to all living things today. Imagine you know, 597 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:42,840 somebody comes somebody comes to you and they're like in the middle class economically, 598 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,440 and they tell you that they started out as a great billionaire, but they 599 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:52,239 pissed it all away. You know, that's their fall from grace or you 600 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,199 know, they arose from humble beginnings. They were in the projects. They're 601 00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,760 the self made man. They got their own education, they work, they 602 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,159 worked the three jobs, got to where they are. You know, that's 603 00:50:01,639 --> 00:50:05,679 the story, right, They came from nothing, they arose to something. 604 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,239 That's where we are right in evolution. So that's the more appealing tale to 605 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:15,880 me. And then you know the Buddhist idea of I love this joke and 606 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,119 that the Buddhist goes up to a hot dog vendorances make me one with everything. 607 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:28,599 If that's the goal, we are inextricable. We are animals. We're 608 00:50:28,639 --> 00:50:31,119 part of this biosphere. We are a part of nature, not apart from 609 00:50:31,199 --> 00:50:36,920 it. And I have a sense of massive sense of belonging. Well, 610 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,679 since we know not to get our science from Tucker Carlson, is there a 611 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:49,239 series of videos on evolution science based videos or resources that you would point this 612 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,079 audience too, and I can link it in the description box. Well, 613 00:50:52,119 --> 00:50:57,960 as I mentioned before, I did do because I noticed that nobody had done. 614 00:50:58,039 --> 00:51:00,639 I did a series of videos of fifteen fifty part series on the systematic 615 00:51:00,639 --> 00:51:07,920 classification of life that shows are the human evolutionary lineage literally from Microbes to Men 616 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:16,280 fifty videos, which is a summary. It just blows my mind. Are 617 00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:20,880 and if nothing else, it's my chance to see you, which I rarely 618 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,039 get to do these days. You and I are both speaking in Sarnia, 619 00:51:23,079 --> 00:51:30,400 Ontario at the Bluewater Atheist Humanist Conference coming up in August, So I am 620 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,280 looking forward to, you know, seeing you again, and I'm sure you'll 621 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,880 have that drink that is thick and dark black and there's smoke and fire coming 622 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:42,599 out of the top and whatnot, and we'll catch up then. But it's 623 00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:45,880 always a pleasure, my friend. And you keep kicking and educating out there, 624 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,440 okay, thank you, and you keep communicating because you are a great 625 00:51:49,519 --> 00:51:53,880 at that very kind thank you. Follow The Thanking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter 626 00:51:54,199 --> 00:51:59,599 for a complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and t shirts 627 00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:04,960 featuring the Thinking Atheist logo, links to atheist pages and resources, and details 628 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:09,480 on upcoming free thought events and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist 629 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,719 dot com.