The Carpentry Show with Robin Clever and Festal A passion for high quality power tools
for over ninety five years. Discover the full innovative eighteen volt cordless range at
Festal dot co dot uk. Festal with you every day. Welcome to the
Carpentry Show with Festal on Fix Radio. I'm Robin Clevert with you for the
next hour. In the coming weeks and months of twenty twenty four, I'm
going to look at specialisms in our trade in more detail. I'll look into
the aspects of the trade that some of us have chosen to focus on and
had great success building a business around. We're going to have a first look
at timber roofing and structural carpentry, something which is really close to me with
my guest Jason Joyced, a timber roof specialist with a growing social media following.
So this week I've actually got something really interesting happening. You often hear
me talk about my previous week, but this week I am going up to
Skill Build. Now. Skill Build is a competition which starts off regionally and
it sort of ends with a big final competition. Now, this is a
coming together of apprentices and crafts people, young crafts people from all over the
country, all different colleges and in ten categories. So we've got everything from
brick lay and carpentry, joinery. We've even got stone masonry and stuff like
that, and it is an amazing opportunity for these young people to actually compete
and showcase their skills. This is going to be in Milton Keynes, and
I've been invited by CB and Construction Skills to actually be there and take part,
if you like, I'm going to see what's going on. Obviously I
won't be able to interfere with the competitors, but we're also going to be
doing an award ceremony on the Thursday evening where we actually give out the prizes
to the winners. So I actually think that these initiatives are so important for
confidence, for confidence not just for the young people, but confidence in our
industry, confidence in the future skills people who will be taking my place and
your places as well, and building the homes and repairing the schools of the
future. So I'm really really looking forward to that. Hopefully I'll be able
to give you some of this sort of information that I find out there or
things I see in future shows fixed radio time to crack on, I'm Robin
Clever and joining me to discuss specializing in timber roof construction is Jason Joyce from
Essex. Jason, So, first of all, tell us a bit about
your business. Okay, we're all around carpenters, but we specialize in timber
roofs. I like to see tim playing builds excellent. Okay, So and
whereabouts are you? Where about are you working? We're based in Essex,
but we tend to travel all over really between Essex Stuffolk, Kent's kind of
venture out into East Sussex area and Cambridge. So okay, so who else
have you brought into your business and what does that enable you to do?
Work wise? So have you got other people with you? Subby's or employee?
How we work is there's four of us, so we try and keep
it into small team and a lot of our rooms are big enough all four
of us. But what we try and do is get double booked, so
if anything falls through, we can all jump on the roof. And if
we double booked and we need to split into two teams, then we can
pull in as and when we need. So we have a couple of people
at a part time and that just works well for us. We try and
keep it like that. Yeah, that's a really good idea because quite often,
you know, you get people screaming at us saying we need you next
week, we need you next week. And then next week comes and you're
ready to go and they say no, the brick layer has not got the
plates on or something like that. And so by having that double book situation,
you're right, you can spread a bit thin, or you can all
hammer into something to excuse the carpentry punt. All right, you can all
just get you can all just get stuck into it. And so tell us
a little bit about the structures that you sort of complete. Well, starting
to get the reputation for the HANDCUF roots and specialize in that it's sort of
it's open doors. Were the first ones in. So we get the opportunity
to do more if we choose to. But a lot of people, we
get a lot of people that want to do like self build and I say,
look, will you come in and do the structure side. We're not
I feel confident I'm doing it. Some people developers and builders, and that's
that's basically that really, So we do the structure side, get them in
a dry it's quite rewarding. And then once we've got to that stage and
then the peace of mind, they can do it at their leisure. There's
a good section of build to do first really. Yeah, and you mentioned
something there about the fact that once you much you get called in to do
the first fix. Let's say they get you in a joy tite, get
the joys in, then you come back to do the roof. Once they
see you perform and they're like, what else can these guys help us with?
Or who else do they know that can help us? Because self builders,
they struggle to find good trades people. There's no denying that it's really
difficult. And the fact that they can say to you, by the way,
and if you really like these people, as I do. Sometimes I
meet people and I think, God, there's such nice people and they say,
would you like the second fix? You think, well, why not?
You know? Is that what you do? Yeah? It depends really.
If I feel a at work can be quiet, I'll happily do that.
I'm trying to more reputation just to specialize in, but it's nice to
have that option. And if I don't feel I want to do it personally,
I'll recommend people and just passitive people that I feel confident with, and
it just tells people out and that's what's about really. Yeah. Absolutely,
So you've also got another aspect of your business that you'd like to focus on
around clouding. So what motivated you to sort of start that up and what
have been your results so far? The clodding company was good. It was
what I found is it was trying to find these infield jobs. So what
I find is I'd have a two day slot and then before you know that,
I turned into weeks before working use delaying people and I wanted to stick
to the date, So I was either delaying people or bouncing between two.
So I found that challenging. So we set up a cloud in because it's
perfectly windfields and they never never need to be in a rush for people that
have its way. I felt that we had a little slot to do we
could just squeeze that in. But to be honest, it's come really well
and I'll probably keep busy all year round just doing that. What sort of
clouding every issue. We've done a lot of large lot of burnt larch Japanese
methods so it's quite interesting. Yeah, yeah, barn Yeah, do you
burn it up yourself? Were you buying like that? Yeah? It was
bought in like that. But yeah, just doing the edges, you've got
to cut it, so that was interesting doing something different and a lot of
the concrete. So I don't know if that's going to be a phase at
the moment, but yeah, a lot of stuff I like to do.
I prefer would Yeah, I do as well. In fact, sometimes the
cladding job's beautiful, isn't it. You can just sort of really lose yourself,
can't you. This is mindless, isn't it. You can just once
you set up and you've got your corner set up and your window reveals and
you know how you're going to go. It's just brilliant, isn't it?
Just behind it? Yeah, I do. I love one of those sort
of jobs like that cladding. Okay, Jason, let's discuss why you decided
to specialize in this next corventry show on Fixed Radio. This is the Carpentry
Show. I'm Robin Clevitt, and I'm talking to Jason Joyce about his experiences
taking on tim the roof construction and so, Jason, how do you get
into the trade. Leaving school, opportunities are quite small. I wasn't best
behaved, and you had free choices. It was either going to get into
mischief, army or carpentry. I had a lot of learning difficulties and still
to this day. So for me, hands on was the best way to
be skillful of my hands and to release some of that energy as a young
teenager. You're learning now, I bet you're amazed at what you can learn,
at what you can take on. If you look back at your fifteen
fourteen year old self, I bet you could never imagine then what you're doing
now. Though. It's phenomenal, isn't it. Yeah, And it's been
only been the last four years that the doors are really opened, has it.
But I mean, I know some of the stuff that you do is
just phenomenal. And who would have thought, you know, would you have
ever thought that when they were saying to you, oh your you know,
your trouble you you was messing around? I was like, that is school.
I was a class clown in school. So it was kind of you
just have to sort of prove it to yourself, isn't it. So where
is your interest? So where is your interest in structural carpentry come from and
how did you learn those skills? Well, I always enjoyed being on the
roof. It's hand for the tools. You're up outside during the fresh air,
and you left the loane to do what you've got to do. And
I think, I don't think these starite agents now are what they used to
be many years ago. A lot of them inexperience and I didn't like the
lack of organization. So if I was on the roof, I could finish
it completely done and get paid. And I think I tried to get away
from the site work and it was quite challenging because you go for small little
companies. You enjoyed a nice people, but the money wasn't there, So
is what do you do? And I remember listening to an audio with Robert
Kazaki reached their poor dad, and I said, you know what, I'm
going to start my own business. And I see there was a roof near
me not being started, and they was there. So I said, look,
guys, you need a hand. I've done a few rules which would
be interested as help. And they said, now I've got my own guys.
So I stead of giving in when I got my best pictures up.
I sent it to buy email. We rang it straight up and said right,
come and do this group. No going back out a maze. That
was it. But that took a lot of guts, isn't it. Yeah,
I mean I get quite nervous, to be honest, I'm quite nervous
one to you. It's what I am. But it's the only way you
get buy. I keep pushing yourself. I mean, that's amazing. It
reminds me of years ago. I went to Mortar and I was fascinated with
the build there because they excavate a hole, take all of the limestone out
the hole, cut that into bricks, and build the house. It's phenomenal.
And once they get it all built and ready, it's ready for what
they call that plaster in And the local plaster goes along and paints his number
on the building, and that means I'm ready and I'm available to do it.
It's basic marketing. But you know, turning up and saying to a
builder, it's horrible walking onto anyone's site, Isn't it Absolutely horrible? Because
you know people just like, who the hell is this walking on the site?
Is he going to nick my tools or something you know. But yeah,
yeah, yeah, but that's really I mean, that's really brave and
sensible thing to do. And that was the thing that obviously tipped you over
for I can do this. I'm confident and you know you've proved it.
So so that was an opportunity. So you saw in the market that you
thought, I'm going to go from site work to going to do smaller works
with nicer people hopefully, And you're right, small building firms are generally much
nicer places to be, aren't they not? Just the fact you haven't got
those awful rules, which I know that we have to have, but it's
much more straightforward. And was it at that point you sort of realized that
specializing in something like this could create some success for you. Yes. What
I was finding was so I was turning up to look at jobs, and
I was saying, I'm really glad your enthusiastic they could see it shine through.
Yeah. For me, I like the challenge, And what they were
saying is we've had six people look at the job and now one's been interested
because it's too complicated. Really, So for me, I'm self taught.
So every time I do a roof, I say if I can get over
there, I wouldn't do anything, and then before you know it, next
job, next job, and just keep going. There's some good colleges in
the country that actually teach roof construction. West Suffolk College, Iris recently villaged.
Sorry, I recently visited and it was amazing what they're doing over there.
But they're few and far between. So you're right. What you've got
to do is literally earn it on the job. And with roofing, especially
if you're extending an existing building, there's so many things that can be out.
The brick layer might just not be particularly good at setting out in the
ground, so at the time it comes up to you, it's out of
parallel, it's out of square, it's out of level, and you just
have to basically get over it, you know what I mean. It's it's
just one of those awful things. So is that the most enjoyable aspect of
structural carpentry that you do? Exactly problem solving? And when I get asked
by a client and they say, looks any chance to do it this way
and look speak to the architecture architecture, is that it can't happen. Said,
that's fine, but I've got as on behalf of the client. There's
the way we can overcome that. Yeah, I would like to give them
that opportunity to do so. And there's been times we're designed to designed to
have gone to the engineer or building control and we've made it happen and that's
rewarding. It certainly is. And again that's a confidence thing because when you've
got a bit of paper and it's got an R I B A Architects stamp
on the side, and you sort of think, actually, I know for
a fact if we take that steal out and put a timber trust here,
for example, we can make the job better. It's a really hard thing
to actually overcome. But again with confidence, you build your confidence. It's
brilliant, isn't it. Fixed Radio? This is the Carpentry Show with first
All on Fixed Radio. I'm Robin Clevitt. So I would need to look
at different specialisms within our trade and those working in them. And still on
the line with me today is Jason Joyce, who is a self described timber
roof specialist. So, Jason, are there any particular memorable jobs that you've
worked on. I think one of the best ones was done is an Emerson
Park and you're run for Genetics and that had a total top route. It
had ninety two triple timbers for hi ull scarf twented and we had three big
curved dormers. I would say it's member. It was a really nice job,
nice nice buyer and it was really enjoyable to do. Yeah, that's
the one with the barrel vault dormers. They looked at absolute business mate,
they did. So can you talk us through some of the most impressive timber
roof and timber frame structures that you've also completed, Well, that's chanting.
There's been a few, I quite like the one in Hawsham, which is
the curve roof. There's three meters different height between a lower end of the
ridge to the high end. Every raft was a different peach. We started
off at twenty six degrees I believe to about sixty two degrees, so that
was interesting. Recently we've done a little job at the Tower of London on
a little turret roof and that was an honor to be there. Amazing,
amazing. You should be knighted for that one, mate, I'll tell you.
But going back to that one that you're talking about in Horsham, which
was absolutely phenomenal. I've got a question about that roof, Who on earth
is go insulated and how's it going to be done? Yes, good question.
So this is some of the things that come into conversation becaus when we
were talking about the steels and trying to get the fire, talking about the
cats back in underneath. Now none of the papers much for various things like
that. It was going to be sell text because of the angles. What
they're going to do now is they're going to put expand in home in there.
So we've been back with counter back the timber and eighteen milk pie on
that and it was the last day to day. We've just managed to get
that curve there. Yeah, and the guys out measuring the zink, so
he'd be getting ready to stall the next face and we'll be back and into
year training would be good BlimE me. Yeah, it was. It was
an amazing job that could keep you busy for some time, I reckon.
So that's amazing And I would imagine that would have been one of the more
challenging projects that you've taken on. Yeah, I was challenging because it's so
much you think about it not just for the carture side. It's getting not
just the consistent flow. If whether the steels vary, they might have given
upstands of the steel. So you're trying to get that natural curve, beging
all the class forwards, the information hourison to finish on the outside, try
and type, make sure it works for ever other trade. Yeah, no,
it's amazing and people need to have a look at your Instagram to actually
see all of those amazing pictures. Okay, so that's what sort of kind
and tell do you work with and how do you find it other than turning
up and saying I can do your roof. I think when it first started
it was a lot of pictures off Facebook because I had this routine where I'd
get onto the last ten stiles and I'd just be posting all the time.
Or I'd pass places and i'd been knocking on doors. Literally if I see
someone who's got a fourteen, I'd put a lease it through and I had
written out, don't look, get in touch. And I think over time,
I choose the quality builders that I would like to work for, and
we've got lots of property developers, so it's gradually bit by bit and I've
noticed that it's sort of changes changed, especially with like the economic slowes down
which happened at the moment we're trying to go more higher end by and tell
yeah, who may be less sort of affected by cost of living crisis and
rising interest rates and well, inflation's coming down, so that's a good thing,
so hopefully we should see rates follow and so talking about finding sort of
better work, better qualities of work. We're in winter now, so what's
your seasonal approach with your business? Sort of you still taking an outdoor work
always? Yeah, the worst of the weather gets the more we take it
on betaween know others. One that's so true, isn't It is so true?
And let's be honest. You can have an amazing December, can't.
You can be dry and cold, which is absolutely perfect. It's October this
month this year was one of the wettest on records. So you just don't
know, do you. You can never tell. You just got to get
on with it. I've worked a board of work to Australia, Canada,
so I know the extremes to remind myself, but this took its toll on
me this week. I think when you look at your friends and they smile
or or are they just are the grumpy? It does make you laugh and
you just get up of it. Yeah. Absolutely proper, proper geezers.
That's what we are. We get out and get stuck into it. Anyway,
let's come back to wrap up our chat as we're running out of time
on today's show on Fixed Radio The Builders Station Campentry Show Monday from three and
catch up anytime at Fix Radio dot co dot uk the Builder Station Fix Radio.
I'm Robin Clevitt wrapping up my chat today with Jason Joyce about his experiences
focusing on timber roof construction. What's your dream ambition, Jason, Perhaps a
structure or project that you're yet to take on that really interests you. Oh,
that's challenging. I see what I do really like. I like to
a church roof, So I'm really a seat steep steeple roof or an eyebrow.
Yeah, that's amazing. I've done both of those things. I did
an eyebrow in Windsor and I was literally young and who was a big extension
had a huge gable gable roof at right angles to existing that was a piece
of cake and it was huge, and I spent you know, a couple
of weeks getting it all up and building it. And then they had an
eyebrow. They said, we want to match this eyebrow and the roof next
to it. And it must have taken me half the time to do one
our eyebrows. It did do the rest of the roof, and they were
saying, what you've been here? Do you know what I mean? It's
kind of like it's one of those okay, tell us about your plans for
twenty twenty four and beyond. Okay, next year. We've done a lot
of new durabields for those who don't know where that is, the concrete field
with the Palistine installation, so they're quite good because that they think they take
time, so that will open up the doors for a lot more internal work.
I've also started networking with a lot of people around the country. We've
come through timber roofs. So my plan is to take on as much work
as I can, getting people going to be local. If we're busy,
I can lead them to their own device. If not, we've got a
line of work and hopefully the weather would be good and we can carry on
camping out and traveling around. Well, I reckon you're going to smash it
mate, There's no doubt about that. You are ambitious, and you're keen,
and you can most of all do the work and get it done.
So how can people connect with you online? I would have a look my
Instagram account. Take us out there and I'll get back to anybody that contacts
me and Google JC timber Rooths. That's this. Thank you so much for
your time today, Jason. I'll catch up with you soon. Thank you.
You can hear this show again from ten pm with more great music right
here on Fix Radio. You can sign up to the newsletter for this show
at fixradio dot co dot uk and doing that will give you access to exclusive
news, competitions and links to the podcast, which often has exclusive content in
it not aired on the radio.