Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Oh my godness,
Frank Being Frank point where the only way to be is Frank. Hello
everyone, and welcome to Being Frank, where the only way to be is
Frank. I'm your host, Frank Leblona, and I'd like to thank you
for joining us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation podcast, where
no conversation is out of bounds and all points of view are welcome. You
know, we record live to tape and I give you the date so you
have some context and relevance for our conversation. It is May twenty third,
twenty twenty four. This is actually our one hundred and seventeenth show. By
the way, we keep rolling right along and May has been designated as mental
health Awareness month, and considering the state of the world today, we could
all use some effective ways to treat ourselves well first, so that we may
do the same to others. But we find respect for ourselves, we can
never truly respect those around us, even those we may love. This,
in turn, can create destructive behavior. It may include addiction and or violence.
It seems that every time we turn on the TV or go to social
media, there's an abundance of stories of seriously mentally disturbed people committing random acts
of violence, particularly in New York City. According to the National Alliance of
Mental Illness, more than fifty million American adults experience a mental illness each year,
which is over twenty percent of the population. And of course, no
matter what side your sympathies may lay on, the images of death and destruction
and gods that can bring even the most hardened person to tears. So has
our capacity for cruelty increased while our compassion has decreased? Is this perception based
on sensational media reporting or is it fact based? Is the world simply getting
meaner? Is so? What may be causing this? Why are so many
young people falling into the depths of Why are there so many homeless people,
many of them suffering with mental illness? Why are we closing and defunding agencies
that might provide some help? And if we address the issue, is it
possible to find a solution or are we damned to keep going until we destroy
ourselves? As we say virtually every week, the mission of this program is
to use intelligent conversation to create the dialogue necessary to facilitate positive outcomes, and
I can't think of anyone more qualified to bring his most qualified opinions to this
most important topic. He's the best selling author of Some Assembly Required, based
on his own true life experiences overcoming addiction, and is a frequent contributor to
Psychology Today, where his articles have gotten millions of views. And he's also
my friend, a former Long Island High school basketball standout. I get that
in I make him smile. You can't see it, but he's smiling right
now. Please welcome my dear friend, Dan Major. Dan, thank you,
Thank you, Frank. It's a pleasure to be here with you again.
Yes, you've been on a few times before with the topic of addiction
mental health, and we're back again because we need to talk about it.
And I think the more that we do talk about it, the more we
can bring certain things to light. There's a greater chance of helping people.
And I certainly know what you're about, and that's what this program is about.
At the same time, so you know, there's a lot to unpack.
Let's get into our conversation. First of all, I mean, you
hear mental health and awareness, et cetera. What makes for a mentally healthy
person is that someone who's smiling all the time, happy all the time.
What can we see as someone who's well adjusted mentally has good, solid,
strong mental health. Well, there are certain outward indicators, but there isn't
a direct correlation between how people look on the outside and there and what's going
on on the side their internal experience. Smiles can be an indication of contentment,
of being at piece, of being happy, but they can also be
a cover up. They can also be a mask or a disguise where the
internal experience is completely different and a person wants to literally put on a happy
face, you know, sometimes because they're not interested or simply you know,
aren't able to show their true internal experience outwardly, or they're concerned about outward
appearances and they're really interested in people viewing them a certain way, thinking of
them in a certain way. But what makes for healthy mental health is a
function of of balance on a variety of levels. You know, certainly in
terms of you know, mental balance related to the cognitive realm. That has
to do with with how we think, you know, to what extent are
people conscious of their thoughts and the stories that our thoughts automatically combine to create
stories about how things are, you know, in our direct experience, what
we see on TV, what we read on social media, and so often
our thoughts combined to create these stories, these narratives that are incredibly compelling,
convincing, and often seductive, and yet they may have relatively little to do
with the reality of our experience. But they latch on to our attention and
they pull it in various directions, sometimes to places back in our past,
stuff that happened yesterday, last week, two years ago, back when we
were kids, even or pulls it into the future. Oh no, what's
going to happen tomorrow, next week, six months from now, and and
and so forth. And what happens is our thoughts have the capacity to pull
us very far away from present moment experience. And when when that happens,
usually it happens unconsciously, automatically and habitually, and people are very unaware of
it. And then then what happens is that our thoughts and the stories they
create, they contribute directly to the emotions that we experience, and so so
so balanced cognitive experience. Good mental health in that area relates to being consciously
aware of our thoughts and what our thoughts are telling us so that we can
make an informed determination. Okay, this is what I'm thinking. Does this
make sense? Or is is this bolt wrap? You know which which which
it often is? And then our thoughts, our thoughts lead directly into our
emotions. So when our thoughts create stories that that rap onto our attention and
and uh and pull it back into the past. Often the emotions that go
along with that are things like sadness, regret, guilt, shame, anger,
resentment, loss, and so forth. And when when the stories are
about things that might happen in the future, well that's that's the preferred hangout
of anxiety and fear about the things that that we get caught up in thinking
in such powerful ways that we're almost certain that it's going to happen, and
yet so rarely actually does. But you know, creates this intense anxiety or
fear that that has direct influence over over our our perspective and and our and
our actions. So you know, when that happens, we are you know,
we talk about being people being under the influence of alcohol and other drugs,
for example, and they're you know, they're impaired, their decision making
and their judgment is uh is uh is not online effectively, I think the
same thing happens when we are operating under the influence of really intense, powerful
emotion we are in we're under the influence, we are in some respects impaired.
So healthy balance related to our emotional life has to do with with being
consciously aware of what our feelings actually are, what we're feeling in this moment,
and being present with it rather and just allowing it to be part of
our experience so that we're not overwhelmed by those emotions, or because they're so
uncomfortable, we're actively trying to push them away, to run away from them,
to medicate or to numb them. Yeah. I'm certainly no theologian,
and I'm not a Buddhist, but I've done some studying and what you've said
echoes with me from my understanding too. Even with the budh of the middle
path of the floating lotus going neither north nor south in bounds, and it
seems to me that seems to be part of their of the Buddhist philosophy,
of their of their belief system, is to be in touch with all feelings
that I saw it. It's funny internet meme, and I want to get
into some of the good and bad parts of social media and the Internet,
and some of the good things that you do see is the exchange of ideas
and information and some of them. It was very interesting today. It was
about being in touch with your feelings. I wish I could remember it exactly,
and it said something along the lines that you really you don't have friends
or enemies in life, you only have teachers. And that really struck me
if you look and read between the lines there that all experience. It depends
on how we accept the experience. That makes the difference. Is that am
I on the right track? That way? Absolutely, frank And in fact,
there are several notable psychotheraic psychotherapeutic approaches that have evolved over the last ten
to twenty years or so that incorporate mindfulness as one of the one of the
core principles and set of and sets of skills that people's mental health can benefit
from their learning and practicing. But being being able to be present with the
full continuum of our experience, you know, not getting too attached to the
pleasurable and and the things that we want and not not not running away from
or needing, needing to avoid, whether it's whether it's by literal avoidance or
numbing or self medicating the things that we find uncomfortable or or or painful.
In fact, you know, learning how to be okay with discomfort is one
of I think the most crucial life skills anyone can develop, learning how to
be comfortable with discomforts, as it were, And that doesn't mean that we
like being uncomfortable, that we like discomfort or various forms of pain. Of
course we don't that, you know, unless unless you're a masochist. Discomfort
is uncomfortable, and pain is painful, and who wants that, you know,
it'd be nice if we could avoid it. But the reality is life
has, you know, ample doses of discomfort and pain for everyone. They
are simply part of life, part of being human, and to attempt to
avoid it is a self defeating, foolish, ultimately effort, because it always
backfires on us and and amplifies and extends whatever form and discomfort for we're trying
to avoid. So learning how to be present with and move as gracefully through
our present moment experience. Whether it's whether it's pleasurable or painful is one of
the keys to quality mental health. And when we can do that, we
develop much greater capacity to be fundamentally content, to experience peace of mind,
greater peace of mind and peace of heart. It isn't I see wellness,
and I'm sure that you share this with me too. Wellness is being all
connected. It's a total bodily experience, if you will. It's a holistic
I guess is the modern term for it, where everything being connected. I
used to be what was a boy scout, say, a healthy mind,
healthy body, or healthy body leads to healthy mind. It sounds kind of
pollyanist today, but there's some truth to that. Living a healthy lifestyle both
physically improves your mental outlook and vice versa. Is that not true? It's
absolutely true. You know. There's something like forty or forty five years of
really substantial scientific research that demonstrates, unequivalent, unequivocally that the mind and the
body are so directly and intimately connected that inevitably whatever affects one will affect the
other. And so we can, by virtue of what we think and how
our thoughts and the stories they tell us influence our emotions that affects our body
in the same way that when we're ill or we're injured, think about how
that affects how we think and how we feel emotionally. The relationship is absolutely
reciprocal and very powerful and and and there are you know, beyond the mind
and the body. We're talking about about the mind, heart, body and
spirit. So it relates to you know, how we how we think,
how we how we feel emotionally, what's going on in our body or physical
sensations and physical health and well being, as well as our spiritual centeredness and
by by spiritual, you know, for for some people there's a direct connection
between the spiritual and religious, and what spiritual for them relates to uh a
specific conception of God and a particular form of organized religion. For many people,
those those two things have nothing to including myself, They have nothing to
do with each other. And spirituality in the big picture sense related to mental
health and well being me is simply a connection with that beyond oneself, you
know, with with other people, with the world around us, with nature,
with the with with the universe more more more broadly and doing you know,
what we can to believe also have some faith in something beyond ourselves,
say you hear. That's often a belief in something greater than our than ourselves.
And it doesn't necessarily have to be a supreme being, I believe I
hear you saying, but but some connection that you're part of something greater exactly,
you know, for from for many For many people, it's being out
in in nature, or or being part of other larger communities, you know,
the twelve step community being being one, you know. And I'm a
member of twelve step program and as we were talking before the show started,
I was asked by a friend who lives in Tehran via Facebook to share what's
referred to as my experience, strength and hope related to long term recovery at
my twelve step meeting. I'm not going to say which fellowship it is because
that technically is against a specific tradition that guides activities in twelve step programs.
Now people may be able to figure it out, but you won't hear it
directly from me. But so I was asked to speak at this meeting via
zoom that's based in Tehran, Iran, this afternoon, and so you know,
I spoke for about half an hour to one hundred and fifty Iranian men
and women. And one of the things things that I mentioned was that you
know right now and the Iranian people are are very different from the Iranian government,
which is important for ever everyone to know. But one of the things
I mentioned was how how how at odds Iran and America have you know,
are and have been for a very long time. And yet this community,
this commonality of shared experience as well as interest and goals, brings us together
across the globe for common purpose, with the idea of getting better, of
improving the quality of our of our lives by assisting one another, by being
of service to one another in these ways. And you know, every every
significant spiritual tradition in the history of the world, including religious traditions, they
all have as one of their principal values being of service to others. And
that's one of these specific actions that contributes to good overall mental health and well
being, because when we're of service to others, we are not anywhere near
as self absorbed as as we can be when we're just caught up in our
own stuff. Perfect segue, because I wanted to ask, and you know,
that's very much the upside of social media, and I want to develop
that in a little bit. But before that, and I hinted at it
in my introduction. So people meaner today? I know, I've heard it.
I've heard it from my friends. You can't have a civil discussion anymore.
People have behind behind the internet. They get nasty. And again I
don't I think it's not fair to to equate all the violence that's happening that
we see on the news with with with mental illness. But there certainly is
a connection in many cases. So are we becoming meaner as a society?
We hear it often and we see it often. Are we You know,
it's impossible to say in any sort of objective or certain sort of way,
I think, frank, although it's certainly an important and worthy question. I
think that that because of the increasing influence of not just social media, but
but online information where people, you know, where people get their information,
where they get their news, because it has become so hyper partisan, you
know, it has become so much more divisive and vitriolic. And these divisions
have always existed, but you know, everyone didn't have the same access to
a platform. And then there are all these all these alleged sources of news
that quite frankly are complete distortions and inaccurate presentations of the reality of what is.
And it's designed to to separate and divide and gas up the intensity of
negativity toward the toward other other groups basically, so you know, And and
then part of it also and this is this is this is a long standing
question. So are things getting worse or are we just better informed because because
we have so much more access to information than than ever before. And I
and I think it's I think it's probably a bit of both. But but
you know, when we when we look back at how at how at how
people lived in earlier times, you know, it tends to be romanticized and
and uh I idealized. And you know, like we think about like life
in the American as as as America was being developed and people were moving moving
west and trying to settle that was a horribly difficult life. And people got
killed all the time for very horrible ways often, yeah, and in some
cases for for very little reason, you know. So, but but you
know, worried about that didn't get around all all that often. And and
is there more mental illness now? Uh? Probably because you know, there's
there's Although I think life has always been stressful, I think the intensity of
that stress has probably increased and become become a bit more widespread. And that's
something that that you know, these many of these news sources and social media
certainly plays a role in how much impossible to discern. But you know,
so for example, I have I have some very dear friends whose politics is
on the opposite side of the spectrum from my own. And I work really
hard not to unfriend people or cut them out of my life for that reason,
especially when these relationships have in some cases existed for decades, and these
people have been you know, like old dear friends, and you know,
I love them and and and to an extent, I know they're I know
their heart. But you know, when when when someone says to me,
you know, this side of the political spectrum, they they actually are in
favor of post birth abortion, and I'm like, what what you mean?
You mean infanticide? You mean murder? No one, no one is advocating
for that, no one is suggesting that that is remotely acceptable, you know,
but they are convinced because they hear it from particular sources of news that
sound so convincing and so certain, and it aligns with certain aspects of the
way they think. And it's it's it's uh, it's it's a profound uh
example of a metaphor for how difficult things can be to find you know,
common ground and have a meeting of the minds. You know. A key
word that you mentioned and I did as well. It's something I very much
believe in is balance. And within that balance there's nature and nurture. If
I might use my personal experience by nature at times in certain ways, I
can be volatile. If I perceive that I'm being disrespected in almost any way,
I tend to be triggered, I guess is the right word, and
I can be violatal with that happened the other day. I was with my
girlfriend and somebody cut me off and one thing led to another, and the
road rage is this close. And that's my nature. But by nurture,
I understand. It's ridiculous people get hurt by that, especially today now with
the ever presence of guns. People pull guns out and they shoot you for
such silly things, and it's just stupid really in the bigger picture when you
think about it, or momentary for five minutes would have been gone and completely
forgot about. But within that short period of time, my nature is to
act that way, and I would like to preserve some of that, because
I think it's notable whatever to have some pride in yourself, okay, without
being overly much so, so I don't want to lose all of that.
So I don't know where I can put it. Sometimes how do I keep
what I think is somewhat worthy part of my nature but also can create problems
at the same time? How do we achieve a balance between nature and nurture?
If you follow where I went, we have that long Rambt dissertation.
Well, I think you know. We can't control the first thought that comes
to mind, because the human mind produces this continuous waterfall of thoughts, one
after another after another. But we can discern which thoughts make sense and which,
you know, which are helpful and healthy, and which which take us
further away from balance, which interfere with our ability to live the kind of
life we want to respond the way we want in different situations and be the
kind of person we want to be. Similarly, we can't control what emotion
springs up. Uh, you know, right? The first emotion that comes,
that comes to mind or that comes that comes to heart. However,
we have a choice as to what we're going to do with that emotion and
how we are going to act in in in response to it. And and
uh, you know I share that, Frank, I mean, you know,
we don't want to there's there's no need to lose who we are fundamentally,
you know, to to use kind of a cliche expression, at this
point, the the work is to become better versions of ourselves, better healthier,
more well balanced versions of ourselves. So we can still react with with
anger and with uh and and with and with uh, with upset, while
not having to follow that emotion in a reflexive, unconscious way where we can
oh, you know that, will well that that sucked, and uh,
and it was it was you know, it was. It was inconsiderate,
perhaps disrespectful, but you know, and maybe I want to you know,
maybe I want to give a horn or or or flip the new Jersey bird.
But but taking it beyond that, you know, serves no useful or
or health or healthy purpose ultimately. And and so so having that having that
conscious realization and being able to to rather than being held captive by an automatic
reflexive reaction to be able to respond more intentionally and skillfully. But but I,
but I, but I know how that is, Frank. I've been
meditating basically every day for forty five years, literally missing very few days during
that time. And in the in the car, I can still be subject
to what a friend of mine refers to as vehicular turets at you know,
at any given instant, you know, I will go off cursing in the
cursing in the in the car when when someone does something stupid or or unsafe
or or in a way that's really really self centered. And and even with
that, you know, again, meditating every day literally for forty five years,
I'm you know, I'm so much better than I used to be,
and that I would be otherwise, But I can still be so incredibly impatient
at times. It's me yes, yeah, so again to do what we
can to become better in the in the areas where we struggle or where we're
challenged. I think you've mentioned it as a word. I think it's important
we mention it again here. Mindfulness. You hear it, and Beyonce,
oh, it's a new age, it's not there to be mindful of your
place, where it is in the world, what's going on, your reaction
to things, others' reactions to your reaction. It's a much bigger picture,
and you have to be mindful. A certain awareness helps with that, I
would think absolutely, you know, And as it relates to the press have
changed the process of healing, of getting better in any area of life.
You know, it tracks back to a statement that many people have heard a
version of, and that's basically that the journey of one thousand miles starts with
the very first step. I know you've heard some version of that. Do
you know what? Do you know the origin of that statement? No?
Please, I've heard it many times, but I don't you know. In
contrast to this being trendy or fetish, that statement is twenty seven hundred years
old and it comes from from the Seminole Book of Taoism, and that,
you know, Taoism is different from Buddhism in that in that it's kind of
a general approach to living, more a philosophy of life rather than its Buddhism
is much much richer and more detailed in terms of its various practices and approaches
to life. Daoism is more of a more of a general overview, a
philosophy of sorts. Buddhism comes originates from India about five hundred years before the
birth of the historical Jesus Christ, and Taoism. Daoism precedes Buddhism by about
one hundred years and came out of China. And so the book that contains
that statement, the Journey of a Thousand Miles, starts with the very first
step comes from It's a little volume called the Dowbte Ching, and it's only
eighty one verses that reads in many respects more like poetry than prose. It's
really exquisite and has has tremendous wisdom embedded in it. But far from being
trendy or fetish. This is twenty seven hundred year old wisdom, and it
has survived through through going on three millennia at this point because of how universally
true it is. And we're still at it, and we still have to
keep working at it. We're still not there yet. This is all of
these things, Frank, It's really the work of a lifetime. Yes,
the proverbial journey as opposed to any discreete destination, I hear you. You
know, it's so important, and we gave a number that's startling, the
fifty million American adults experience of mental illness each year, which is over twenty
percent of the population that comes from the National Alliance on Mental Illness. With
those kind of numbers, yet we continually see institutions that would deal with mental
health being defunded. They're harder and harder to find programs to get people in.
We've had people on with children with autism, for example, two which
to even have them placed. It gets difficult, more and more difficult all
the time. Why if so many people have need for it, why is
it such a tough sell on the congressional level to get funding for things that
we really need to have done. There isn't enough will for it people.
You know, people do not put the their their actions in terms of financial
decisions as to what priorities in our country deserve funding relative to to the to
the words that they that they use programs, programs that are designed to help
people with really significant challenges. They cost money, and there are basically never
enough of them. You know, some some states, some areas have have
more and better programs and and easier access to them than others. But in
in most places, the the demand for mental health services dramatically exceeds the supply.
I mean, even even for people who are doing okay and and experience
some sort of trauma or they have they have anxiety that's gotten worse that they
want to do some some work on they want to you know, feel they
want to they want to be more functional, uh, degrees of sadness or
or depression. Even just for outpatient therapy, the uh, the demand can
so far exceed the supply of therapists or of agencies that provide those services,
that that some times people are left waiting many weeks or months. And that's
assuming that they have the insurance coverage necessary to pay for it, or they
can afford to pay out of pocket. Because qualities, you know, you
get what you pay for to such an extent, you know, these services
simply are not are not inexpensive. And unless and until there's enough will to
provide funding compared to other priorities, you know, related to what Congress believes
is important, there's no reason to think that this is going to change significantly.
Unfortunately. Yeah, we want to take a break when we come back.
I want your feelings. We had a great guest last week, a
gentlemen who grew up on the West Bank in the West Bank and gave us
an interesting perspective there, Cada Harmani, and he mentioned something about the victim
mentality for both Palestinian and Jews. I want to learn more about that,
what that means in context also, and what war can do to a whole
generation of people that grow up under those circumstances. I think it's something that
bears discussion. So we'll get to that when we get back from the commercial.
So we're going to take a quick break. My very special guest for
Mental Health Awareness Month is Danny Major, and we're back with more being Frank
right after these brief commercial messages. Please don't go anywhere. This is great.
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to Being Frank, the Intelligent Conversation podcast. Thanks for sticking with us.
I'm your host, Frank Lebono. You know we bring our audience a fresh
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comment and please consider subscribing to the podcast, and if you really like us,
share Being Frank with your family and friends. May is Mental Health Awareness
Month, and my very special guest is my friend, best selling author Danny
Major. Before we went to the break, I tease a little bit.
I had a great guest on last week, Nikader Hamadi, who grew up
in the West Bank, and in part of our conversation he mentioned something about
a victim's mentality. He said, both Palestinians have it because of their experiences,
but he also felt like as particularly Israeli Jews also suffered from victim mentality
and Jews in general from the Holocaust, et cetera. Can you explain a
little bit about what that means in context of what we might be experiencing in
Gaza right now. Well, the the socio political stuff gets extremely complicated,
Frank. I mean, from a psychological perspective, a victim mentality simply relates
to perceiving oneself as a victim. And and I mean there there are reality
based situations in which everyone can experience being a victim, being taken advantage of,
exploited, treated, unfairly treated, poorly, you know, in all
sorts of different ways. Victim mentality is a particular, more enduring perspective that
morphs into kind of a personality trait where, no matter what the circumstances may
be, the person sees them sees themselves as being treated unfairly, as getting
the short end of the stick, and that that's yeah always and and uh
and and and One of the indicators that a person is stuck in that perspective
is when someone provides a contrary way of looking at things such that that it
makes clear that that their sense of victimization doesn't have much to it in a
reality based way. Rather than really acknowledging that directly, they are much more
likely to shift sin aimlessly to a different situation in which they perceive themselves as
being victimized treated unfairly. Uh and and and and and so forth. And
you know, it's it has to do with their view of the world,
with their sense of themselves, and they get they get attached to it.
It becomes part of their identity and embedded in in who they are and how
they are, and and that gets, you know, it gets very difficult
to do anything with uh and in part it's they get a certain degree of
gratification out of it. There's you know this, there's a self righteousness to
it. So they get they get attention with as a result of it,
and and various secondary games. You know, in terms in terms of of
what's happening in Israel, in the West Bank and Gaza, you know,
that's that's where that's where reality and the psychological combine to create such a powerful
and pernicious dynamic. You know, in terms of in terms of Jews,
anti Semitism is the is the longest standing form of discrimination and bias in the
history of the world. There is no question about that. And you know,
one of the things that's happened is that and and the government of Israel
has has has I mean what this wouldn't have happened if Hamas didn't do what
they did on October seventh, So that that precipitated the current conflagration. Regardless
of how you see or how how you saw the relationship of Israel and the
Palestinians to each other prior to this, if I might, oh, I'm
sorry, because it's perfect. I just might jump in because it's it's burning
it because I think it's so pertinent. I haven't written down with all that
in mind, and you've set it up beautifully. How does one balance so
called righteous anger with compassion? I mean, people say Israel has a right
to protect itself. What happened on October seventh was et cetera, et cetera.
So there's a certain level of righteous anger there, but the toll extracted
for that has been extreme and severe, with many, many innocent people suffering,
including children. So how do you balance something that has been simmering and
as you mentioned, so many factors geopolitical, been simmering so long. How
do you strike that balance of we have to protect ourselves and we have to
be strong in doing so, and sending a message that this can never happen
again one of the slogans never again. Yet at the same time level of
compassion so that fifteen thousand children are not killed. How do we do that?
I think a lot of people actually do do that. Frank you know,
some people get caught up in this completely US versus them sort of dichotomy,
whether they're on the side of Israelian Jews more generally or the Palestinians,
and the ways in which they have been arguably oppressed over the course of decades.
You know, by the way, the other Arab countries like to talk
a really good game in terms of the ways in which the Palestinians are oppressed,
but they do virtually nothing to assist in any sort of meaningful or material
way themselves. So arguably the Palestinians' plight and continued deprivation and desperation serves a
certain purpose within within the Arab world now. But I think there are a
great many people, myself included, who on the one hand, are very
sensitive to the forms that anti Semitism can take, including re emerging. And
there's a fine line between being pro Palestinian in terms of what's happening in Gaza
right now and anti Semitic. But I think, but I think a lot
of people are, you know, they they are horrified by what Hamas did
on October seventh, and you know, absolutely believe that a certain powerful,
significant response is it was indicated and is appropriate, but that there's been too
much and too many, too many innocent civilians, including children, have been
injured, killed, subject to you know, these horrific spirit conditions. It
doesn't it's not, it doesn't have to be either or I think it can
be both. And you know, and and unfortunately it's it's compounded. It's
it's compounded by by significant political and political slash survival issues on both sides of
defence, where you know, there are good arguments that netnyahu Is is taking
the approach that he is because his political survival is at stake. If at
the point at which he is no longer Prime Minister, which could happen as
soon as hostilities cease based on what's been happening in Israel over the last several
months, he is subject to ongoing charges of corruption and could not only lose
his position at Prime Minister, he could end up in jail. So he's
doing everything he can to avoid that and arguably using the situation in the service
of that. On the other hand, it's well known that Hamas uses the
civilian populace of Gaza and Palestinians as human shields and does everything possible to avoid
fighting military conflicts in a more direct way because their strategy is to is to
use the civilian population for as much of a disguise and as much of a
defense as possible, knowing that public opinion is going to be increasingly outraged as
civilian deaths and devastation increase progressively, and those are these are at this particular
moment fairly intractable dynamics, as horrible as they are. But this is woven
into the fabric of this of this situation, making it horribly complicated right now.
You know, when we talk about a mindset and obvious this is what
it's a mental health awareness. And what concerns me is the mindset. We
talked about the victim mentality and righteous rage, and it's been said certainly at
this point, and I think the point that I'm trying to make in terms
of mental health is that at this point for every terrorist eliminated, five more
are created in the mind in the mindset of young people who have only experienced
hatred, deprivation, degradation, et cetera. It's so hard for people,
it will be for this next generation to grow up quote unquote normally. I
can imagine the amount of work that would have to be done in a situation
like that to make people healthy again. And not only talking physically, you're
talking about food, but but as we mentioned, both spiritually and emotionally at
the same time, well and and you know, the more the more people's
material you know, basic fundamental legitimate material needs go unmet. You know,
the the hungrier people are, the more unhoused they are, the you know,
the the more vulnerable they are to the elements and to to disease and
too and to injury. The worse their mental health is going to be.
Mental mental health is you know, is you know, and doing doing the
things that that quality mental health requires become much more difficult and at a certain
point relatively impossible under circumstances of you know, as as you as you described
it, gross deprivation and degradation, you know, fear, fear for one
survival, fear for the survival of ones of one's children, you know,
everything, but survival goes out the window in those kinds of circumstances. And
and in fact, and in those circumstances, the one emotion which can be
motivating and mobilizing is anger because because for for many people, the alternative is
helplessness and hopelessness. And that's, you know, it's it's it's absolutely a
double binding, no win situation. Let's try and end on a little bit
of a higher note. Yeah, I was, well, yeah, anyway,
interestingly to it mentioned to Cotter my guest last week too, and his
experience. He came to this country a little over thirty years ago and one
of his early experiences with was with the Grateful Dead. And I know you're
a dead head and I've seen hundreds of shows all over all over the country,
if not the world, But you mentioned the camaraderie that it's it's it's
it's more than just a show. It's happening, and how healthy that can
be for people. It's an experience. He kind of saw it in a
sense, kind of the best of what America could be. Peaceful people sharing
a peaceful time in music. Your feelings on that, Oh, absolutely,
I mean you know, in fact, Frank, that's one way in which
in which social media and that and the connections it can facilitate can be can
be wonderfully healthy. So so, for example, my wife and I are
are members of various Grateful Dead related Facebook groups, and in part through these
groups, we have met people all from all over the country and we got
to know them a little bit online and then we would meet them in person
at different concerts that we would go to in different parts of the country.
California, New York. And you know now Dead and Company, which is
the current incarnation of the Grateful Dead with two original members. They're doing this
twenty four show run at the Sphere, the state of the art indoor venue
in Las Vegas. And so so, you know, we're in contact with
each other via Facebook and and now you know, text and email depending upon
how close the relationships are, and then we make arrangements to see one another
and to get together and it has a feel of a joyous reunion every time
we do this. And you know, similar to the twelve Step fellowships and
community. You know, it's it's based on shared lived experience and and common
common interests and the and the joy that that comes about as a result of
what what the music evokes, you know, emotionally, physically, spiritually,
a sense of connection with that with that beyond self for example. And by
the way, the Grateful Dead community and the recovery community have very significant interfaces.
And so so you know, I I know people in my recovery community
who are part of the Grateful Dead community. And you know, sometimes I
met them first related to recovery, sometimes first through the Grateful Dead. But
there's this incredibly cool cross pollination that takes place well, you know, Dan.
We want to thank you as always for your intelligent conversation here on Being
Frank. I could talk to you for hours and days, and we'll do
it again. That sounds good, Frank, I look forward to it.
It's always a pleasure to be here with you. Of course, we offer
special thanks to our listeners who take time to give us a voice in their
lives. That's very important and we're grateful. Remember we offer fresh topic every
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consider sharing Being Frank with others. As usual. As to close the show,
I'll leave you with two last little nuggets. One is a slogan and
then some music. And I think everyone will appreciate this. I try to
choose something that's appropriate to our conversation. This comes from one of my favorites,
Marcus Aurelius and his meditations, who said you have power over your mind
not outside events. Realize this and you will find strength pretty simple and to
the point, and I think very apropos to our discussion. We've got some
great music coming up. That's Bobby Deblasio, my friend, with vocals by
Stephan Marsalis, a song called like You Do for our engineer Neil Richter the
Mailman. I'm your host, Frank Lobono, and we hope to have you
join us on the next being Frank, We're the only way to be is
Frank. Thanks everyone. I was a poor look at everything inside. I
was a drift and lives through her. I was a self don and the
never cold side. Then I faltered, and then I was a dreamer.
You could never get to sleep. I was a climber, show every mountain
to steak. I was a floater. You got in a little too.
And then I faltered and then the minihopy sells somewhere minnihppy. What when I
just showed me on the way than I was cobbled, never had I was
the next port. I'm blowing on little metals, but I'm never fail me
there fat and up there, maybe I shall maybe, boy, but I
consume me away. Shouldn't give me what was that thing that sent away under
his soul of food? And I always see the cat love without my bus
on the rules and there was a crosser and a never change and the ants.
I just could not cast that to a line with the bar will leave
the gods now the faults and out fair really out ell Mary love who I
were a person, but all love you love you love who like a person?
All you love love you you love me Hudson River Radio dot com. Mm hmm