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And we're back with another edition of
Federalist Radio Hour. I'm trist Injustice.

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As always, you can email the
show at radio at the Federalist dot com,

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follow us on Twitter at fdr LST. Make sure to subscribe wherever you

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download your podcast and to the premium
version of our website. Today, I'm

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joined by Nina T. Colts,
the best selling author of Big Fast Surprise,

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Why Butter, Meat and Cheese Belonging
a Healthy Diet. Nina, thank

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you for joining me. Thanks for
having me on. I appreciate it.

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So I was really excited to talk
to you about this latest docu series on

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Netflix that came out at the start
of the year on veganism. The team

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of researchers at Stanford University followed a
few pairs of twins over an eight week

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period to study the impact of a
vegan diet. Now, when I first

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started the documentary, I actually thought
I'd have a similar reaction to the first,

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you know, set of vegan documentaries
come on Netflix called The Game Changers.

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It was out in twenty eighteen.
I watched the documentary under lockdowns and

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actually was I mean, I didn't
know. I don't even writing about health

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and nutrition for a year and a
half. But I felt so convinced by

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the documentary that actually went vegan for
a month. Of course, this was

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during lockdowns. You know, I
was living alone, no kids, nothing

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else to do other than work.
I just didn't have so many responsibilities,

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and so I gave a shon I
was actually a vegan for a month.

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I thought I would have a similar
reaction to this documentary, but I actually

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left more skeptical about the merits of
a vegan diet than before. So I'm

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curious to hear about what your initial
reaction to the docuseries was. Well,

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you know, I'm a science journalist
and I have been writing about nutrition science

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for now like nearly twenty years.
So my approach to it was actually didn't

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even know about the docuseries. I
was interested in the eight week twin study

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and where they had looked at They
had divided these twins up into two groups.

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They had given one a vegan diet
and the other an omnivore diet.

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And it was by the lead researcher. It's named Christopher Gardner. He's a

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Stanford professor. I've known about him
for a long time because he himself is

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has been vegan for decades, long
before he got into research, and I

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was curious about this study. I
mean, I think the study was problematic

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for a bunch of reasons that we
can talk about. But then I discovered

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that the whole thing had been filmed
and was within practically days of the study

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coming out, was already and produced
for this docuseries. And that really raised

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this question in my mind that was
what was the study done for science or

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was it done as a kind of
PR stunt? And I wrote a column

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about that that was called science or
PR stunt question mark because and I think

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that over the course of my investigation
into this study and the funding for it,

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and the funding for the Netflix study, and looking into Christopher Gardner's background

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a little bit, I really came
to the conclusion that this was most likely

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science masquerading as public relations, and
that the whole thing had been done in

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order to create a docuseries. Because
I think, as we all know,

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convincing people with fact sheets and scientific
studies is not nearly as successful as persuading

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people with a documentary film. I
mean, we all know those films are

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like what the Health Game Changers.
They're very persuasive. They convince people,

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and that's more effective than trying to
show people to present a bunch of facts

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and figures and scientific information and that
sort of bewildering to people. So I

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think that this was designed to try
to convince people to become vegan through a

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film that has a kind of a
thin vernier of science overlaying it. I'd

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say those was probably one of the
biggest red flags for me. When you

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are conducting a scientific study for the
sole purpose of commercializing it for a Netflix

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docuseries that clearly came with an agenda. I don't think there's any doubt about

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that. Watching through the four episodes
where they start going to chicken farms and

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talking and really going after the meat
industry itself, it was pretty clear to

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me that this was not some type
of rigorously conducted scientific experiment. It was

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clearly a commercialized product as a kind
of pr stunt. And of course it

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only took you know, I came
across your column, and of course it

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comes from people who are behind the
beyond meat industry, the industry to kind

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of create synthetic meat and sell it
as real meat, but it's actually a

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vegan product of course it's ultra processed
and so, but I remember watching The

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Game Changers during lockdown, and I
remember watching it with a certain enthusiasm of

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someone who's going to start writing about
health and nutrition, and so I thought,

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you know, let's give it a
shot. And so I went vegan

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for entire month, and I did
responsibly. I phased out meat products solely

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over the course of a few weeks. I stuck to a strict regiment outlined

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in a vegan diet cookbook for athletes
because I was doing cross it at the

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time. And I remember at the
end of that kind of self experiment,

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I thought it was going to feel
like a monster in the gym. I

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thought it was going to feel the
best I ever had in a lot of

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ways. I did feel really good. But I felt really good because I

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cut out all the ultra processed foods
in my diet. When I put eggs

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back in my diet, I felt, you know, put real eggs back

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in my diet. I felt so
much better better than I did over the

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course of the month long vegan diet. And just to get all the amino

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acids you need through through veganism required
another full time job. Ended up itself.

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I mean, I was someone who's
living alone, no kids, and

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so this time I was watching this
documentary with a little more skepticism as a

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someone who's been writing about nutrition for
much longer than a year and a half

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now, but also with the face
with the reality of Okay, this is

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a docuseriies produced for television. And
also I thought it was incredibly ironic that

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at the end of the series a
lot of the results actually came back against

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a vegan diet. You had participants
who went through the study on the meat

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diet who actually gained muscle and lost
fat, and I just thought that was

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amazing that they would present that in
a documentary that the other way around it

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lost Sorry to interrupt you, but
the vegan diet. So let's just talk

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about the science of the experiment for
a second. So first of all,

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an experiment that is two months long
is a ridiculously short experiment. You can

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learn very very little information from a
two month long study. And it's notable

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that Christopher Gardner, the lead researcher, he has done one, one,

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and I think even two year long
studies, and so he knows that you

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know, meaningful results in a scientific
experiment, especially having to do with weight,

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but also with cardiovascular risk factors.
They're just not meaningful after only two

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months. And then and you're right
that there were a number of negative outcomes

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on the vegan diet. So they
lost I think you got that slightly reversed,

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but they lost they lost more muscle
and gained fat compared to the omnivore

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dieters, who who lost more fat
and not as much muscle. There was

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also a significant drop I think by
seventy nine percent of the vitamin B twelve

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which was available to in the in
the could be measured in the blood of

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the vegan dieters. And that's because
vitamin B twelve is only available in animal

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foods. It does not come from
plant foods. It's an absolutely essential vitamin

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for neurological health and all other kind
of number of other functions, including lung

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function. So that precipitous decline in
B twelve was a very worrisome outcome.

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The study sort of trumpeted their main
outcome, which was a drop in LDL

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cholesterol, so that's your supposedly bad
cholesterol going down, but it did not.

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It sort of squashed the result that
the vegan dieters also saw their good

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cholesterol drop. You don't want your
good cholesterol dropping. You want your good

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cholesterol to be going up. Uh
so, and that always happens on a

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plant based diet, that your good
cholesterol will will come down. So best,

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it's kind of a wash in terms
of the heart disease risk factors.

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And again, you just can't know
after such a short period of time what

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the real heart disease risk is coming
out of a study like that. There

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were other problems I found in the
studies, such as, you know,

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the original protocols which you have to
register with the National Institutes of Health,

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and you do that so that you
cannot then subsequently cherry pick your results.

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Well, it turned out the protocol
that they registered they abandoned without filing any

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paperwork, and they did then cherry
pick their outcome data to look better for

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the study. And so in all
I think it's a it's a pretty weak

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study, short term and with very
very mixed results. So then when you

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go and you look into the to
the conflicts of interest, you're like,

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well, what is this study for. I mean, here's here's someone who

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knows how to do a long and
rigorous uncle trial and now he's doing like

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a really quick short trial. So
you start to look into his you know,

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what are his motivations. Well,
that the study itself was funded by

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the Vote Foundation. I'm not sure
I'm pronouncing that correctly, but Vogt Carl

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Vote is a he's one of the
so called vegan mafia, or is called

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by some members of the press,
a very very committed animal rights activist.

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All of his foundations, expenses and
over the course of years have been entirely

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in the field of animal rights.
And he funded the Game Changers movie,

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so he has and he funded this
movie. He funded both the study,

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and he funded the production company that
made this current Netflix series. So what

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emerges, I think is a picture
of you know, interests and animal rights

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interest funding a steady study, a
scientific study that will ultimately get people not

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to hope. The idea is to
try to get people to avoid meat,

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but not somebody in terms of this
foundation has no record of funding any scientific

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research. I mean, they are
clearly an advocacy a vegan advocacy organization.

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So that creates a whole other agenda
behind this film, which is, you

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know, they want to find veganism
better because they have animal rights interests.

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There is also the fact that the
entire center, this Stanford Center where Christopher

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Gardner works, is underwritten with a
five year grant by Beyond Meat, as

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you said, which is a fake
meat company and ultra processed food. The

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whole center is underwritten by Beyond Meat, and Christopher Gardner, when in his

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own interviews and his own conversation,
says he is he does not even talk

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about health in his classes. What
he talks about and what he's concerned about

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are animal rights issues, labor issues
having to do with labor on an animal

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livestock production, and he's worried about
environmental concerns of livestock. Those are all

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completely valid concerns. But he's a
professor at Stanford Medical School, and presumably

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his job is to answer questions about
health. People who come to the medical

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school are seeking advice about health,
and that is his uh, that would

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presumably be his you know, his
you know, his metier, that would

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be what what his profession is designed
to address. And instead he has these

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other social justice issues that may be
appropriate in some other department at Stanford,

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but certainly do not seem appropriate at
the Stanford Medical School, and so I

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mean, ultimately you're seeing a kind
of conflation of agendas that confuses the study

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and I think is not transparent to
people who are just reading reading the science.

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I mean, I think it's pretty
clear in the film that it's got

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multiple agendas going on, but yeah, the science. It's disturbing when science

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is being used towards these other ends, because that, of course is that's

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science in service of advocacy, and
that is not what science is supposed to

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good times. Yeah, I'm ba,

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00:15:00,039 --> 00:15:01,440
I'm glad I did me speak earlier. I'm glad you caught me on that

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00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:07,399
it was the vegan dieters who were
losing muscle, and it was the meat

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00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:13,279
eaters who were of course having outcomes
that or beneficial. But it kind of

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brings me into my next question.
Your note about the different kind of complating

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agendas throughout the document series. Why
do you think nutrition has become so politicized

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in the last decade? Is it
about health or is it these other issues

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that surround climate change? Is there
a spiritual battle going on? Why do

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you think it's become so political in
recent years? Well, that is a

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very big question, I'm afraid.
I think what we have seen is the

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growth from the nineteen sixties and seventies
onwards of a move towards a plant based

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vegetarian diet that has that came about
originally in the seventies with Francis Morlapay's book

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Diet for a Small Planet, and
the whole idea was, we cannot afford

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to feed the burgeoning number of people
on the planet. We we have to

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we have to shift our diet,
you know, And she famously said,

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you know, a pound of plants
is takes much, many fewer resources to

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produce than a pound of meat,
So we should all switch to eating plants

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in order to be resource protective.
The vegetarian that idea has really gained a

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lot of momentum, and it has
been joined by other interests or advocacy agendas.

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One of those is animal rights,
which has grown to be very very

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strong, I think since the seventies. Also, there's a very extremely strong

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animal rights movement. It's not always
obvious that they're operating. For instance,

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there's a pretty well known known group
that is quoted by mainstream newspapers called the

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PCRs, the Physician Center for Responsible
Medicine, led by Neil Bernard. Neil

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Bernard is an animal rights activist who
is also a doctor, but he's got

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his group of I don't know,
fifteen thousand members is mainly or mainly not

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doctors. They're mainly animal rights activists
and that's the source of their motivations.

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So there are sort of an animal
rights movement that is clad in white doctor's

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codes, but that movement is very, very strong. And then there is

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another strand which has to do with
climate change that has come in, which

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is probably we don't want to get
to go into all of that, but

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I think there's a lot of very
bad science that is blaming cows for a

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big chunk of global warming. And
so there are people who don't want to

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eat meat in order to save the
planet, and I feel like that's the

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most important contribution people can make.
And then behind all of that are the

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vast enormous interests of the food and
I would add the pharmaceutical industries, and

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all these interests converge and are intertwined
with each other. So the food industries

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have been extremely active. And I'm
talking about the multiprocessed food industries. You're

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talking about Nestley, Unilever, Kelloggs, the big giant multinational corporations that mainly

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make ultra processed foods. Most ultraprocessed
foods are made up of three ingredients vegetable

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oils, grain and sugar of some
kind in different proportions. That's your cookies,

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crackers, chips, cereals, everything, almost everything is made from those

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basic ingredients. They see meat as
competing for the central place on the dinner

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plate. They would like to get
rid of meat. Instead of meat,

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you're having pasta and grains. And
because meat has always occupied the center spot,

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the prize spot on the American dinner
plate for centuries. So these companies

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have in fact worked very hard to
promote that climate narrative that meat is bad

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for health. And I mean,
I can tell you about Gorilla Pasta,

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which which spent hundreds of millions of
dollars promoting the idea of that meat is

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bad for health. Back in the
mid twenty fifteen sixteen, they successfully kind

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of launched that idea because Berrilla Pasca
Brilla Pasta is the biggest pasta maker in

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the world and they would like you
to eat their pasta rather than meat.

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And then there's another whole contingent of
companies that are invested in also replacing meat.

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But these are the new fangled ultra
processed fake food companies. So beyond

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meat impossible Burger, the fake mill, the fate, there's now fake seafood,

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fake eggs, and they may be
bubble companies, but there are still

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in a sense that they may not
be successful in that industry because it seems

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that there's not a lot of consumer
interest in those products, but there are

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still companies. They go through their
bubble periods with a lot of run up

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investment and they still make investors quite
a lot of money. And then there

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of course the people invested in bugs. But there's a lot of investment money

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that is going into replacing meat.
So and all of these financial agendas are

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are mixed in with the ideological or
advocacy agendas. You really never know quite

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what is behind any advocacy agenda,
whether there's financial interest there or whether they

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are genuinely concerned citizens. It's a
very confusing field. I'll just add one

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other factor which is actually not minor, but the Seventh day Adventist Church is

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famously known for the Seventh Day Adventist
studies we're purported to show that vegetarians live

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longer. They believe as the most
important matter of their faith that everybody should

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follow a vegan diet because if the
whole world is not following a vegan diet,

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then there will not be a second
coming Jesus Christ will not return to

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save us. And so they have
an extremely active outreach program through hospitals and

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clinics all over the world to try
to move people towards a vegan diet.

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They own the Blue Zones franchise,
and some of the members of their university,

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which is called Low Molinda University,
are very high level nutrition scientists who

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participated in the most influential nutrition committees
that guide government policy. So they are

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actually, surprisingly, i mean,
i would say shockingly, a major player

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in this field, and their motivation
is religious. So there you have a

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very bizarre constellation of different interests involved. In nutrition. It makes your head

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spin. I'm sure it seems like
every time I watch something like this Netflix

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docu series, or I'm listening to
a lecture about how we need to be

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living on a plant based diet,
my mind always goes to, well,

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we already are living on a plant
based diet. I mean, the majority

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of the food in our country is
plant based. Cheerios and oreos are plant

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based foods. It just happens to
be ultra processed, which of course we

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know is linked with BCD, chronic
disease, and all kinds of health problems

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that we're seeing across the country.
Today, I want to talk about this

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paper from Harvard University that really sent
the media haywire last fall, talking link

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apparently linking red meat with diabetes.
It drew all kinds of headlines from the

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Washington Post, the New York Times, but of course, taking you know,

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a few minutes just to look at
how the study was conducted. They're

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lying on recall questionnaires, which of
course we know are notoriously unreliable because people

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often can't remember what they had for
lunch the day before. But also on

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a practical level, it doesn't make
a lot of sense considering how red meat

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has actually very little impact on blood
sugar levels. So just on a practical

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level, it doesn't make sense.
It just I think it's really testimony to

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how we've not just institutionalized the wrong
diet of a low fat, high carb

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diet, but we've industrialized it to
the point where we are living on a

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plant based site. It just happens
to be one based on ultra processed foods.

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Yeah, I mean, I'll just
to give you some statistics that to

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confirm what you're saying. We have
increased our consumption of grains since from nineteen

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seventy to twenty thirteen by forty percent, So we eat more grains as we've

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been told, I mean we and
we eat twenty to thirty five percent more

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fruits and vegetables as well, So
we're eating we're going in the right direction

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on a plant based diet. And
I put right in air quotes because we

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are going in the direction that we've
been told is that a healthier diet.

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Well, I think the evidence shows
that, especially for grains and sugars and

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startsy vegetables, even that those foods
do not do not promote metabolic health or

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are actively bad for people who have
metabolic diseases. So we are, but

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we are on a high plant based
diet already, and that has not been

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consistent or been associated with improving health
in America at all. It's been just

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the reverse. And in the same
period of time, we have decreased our

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consumption of red meat by twenty eight
percent and of beef by thirty five percent,

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and that so you're talking about consumption
of meat dropping quite significantly during the

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same period that the type two diabetes
epidemic has just skyrocketed out of control.

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It seems just that alone would tell
you that it's just nearly impossible for red

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meat to be a driver of diabetes. And as you said, there's no

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sugar in meat, and sugar is
what drives blood sugar and an insulin response,

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and so with that, red meat
just doesn't contain the nutrient, namely

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glucose, which causes diabetes or which
fuels diabetes. So I also did a

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column on that study and on general
on the tremendous anti meat bias at Harvard

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and what that's due to. And
I also looked into the significant conflicts of

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interest that are president at Harvard as
well. Yeah, it's it's I mean,

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it's it is astonishing that there is
science that is just really flatly wrong

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or just doesn't even make sense from
you know, a very basic kind of

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intuitive perspective, and yet this is
a kind of runaway concept, this idea

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that we should not eat meat embraced
plant based diet despite all the evidence to

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the contrary. That's where you realize
this is not really about science. It's

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about these other agendas that people have, and you know, not just agendas,

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but belief systems that are that are
pushing them in this direction. I

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mean, you know, it's interesting. Just listening to an interview with Christopher

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Gardner again from Stanford. He was
saying how that it was career changing,

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life changing for him to get involved
in the vegan movement. It was a

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tribe of people that embraced him.
He loved a feeling of being involved in

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a kind of a social justice issue. It made him feel good about his

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work. It was I think it
made give an elevated feeling about his sense

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of purpose in his work. And
of course anybody could be sympathetic to that.

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Of course, it's nice to have
that feeling that you are maybe helping

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humanity on some larger levels saving the
planet. I know that's what Walter Willett

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is inspired by two at Harvard,
but that's not their job. Their job

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is to be a dispassionate scientist to
try to answer questions about what nutrition or

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diet produces good health. Mean,
that's really what their jobs are, and

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they've traveled far from that original you
know that that original scientific pursuit. I

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think you bring up such an interesting
and really under reported point about how these

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different diets have become so central to
activists identity. We talk about how this

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is I think this has kind of
become the latest ring on the social justice

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hierarchy, of social justice, of
identity politics. I've done a lot of

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coverage on body positivity movement and how
they're trying to claim obese people as the

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latest marginalized group that's entitled to specific, uh uh, specific guarantees from society,

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whether it's three airplane seats or or
other aspects that have kind of become

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popular in these different social justice movements. And so I think it's interesting how

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Gardner talked about how this movement has
become so central to to his identity moving

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forward. But I wanted to kind
of dive into your book a little bit.

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I think it was interesting at the
beginning of the book you talk about

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how two hundred years ago, Lewis
and Clark on their expedition, would actually

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be disappointed when they would shoe any
type of wildlife for consumption but had not

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enough fat on it to make it
even worth cooking. And so, you

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00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,160
know, fast forward two hundred years
now they're telling us read meat is instinctally

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bad for us, and so I'm
just kind of curious. I really think

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your book has really kind of broken
the dam on this issue. I think

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more and more people are starting in
the latest In the last few years,

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I've seen people embrace a higher fat
diet. But I'm wondering how hard you

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think the grip of a low fat
diet remains on the scientific community and the

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00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:55,799
general public, and how long you
think it'll be until people finally abandon it.

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That's a great question. I grew
up in the height of the low

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00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,920
fat mania in the eighties, when
everything had to be, you know,

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low fat, and people were trying
to convince themselves that salad with just vinegar

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00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:18,480
on it was yummy, delicious,
where your mouth is being like turning,

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00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,200
getting puckered from because there's just like
it's so tart in your mouth. But

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the low fat diet just you know, historically, it was introduced in the

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00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:36,079
early sixties by the American Heart Association
and told people to cut back on fat

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because fat has as a macronut there
are three macronutrients, fat, protein,

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and carbohydrate, and fat has about
nine calories program versus four to five calories

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program found in protein or carbohydrates.
So the thinking was, we'll just consume

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fewer calories if we consume less fat. It was an untested hypothesis, that

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00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:04,880
is to say, no clinicals on
that hypothesis at all when the low fat

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00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,960
diet was unleashed on the American population. So we were all just guinea pigs

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in that experiment, and that is
when that became official government advice in the

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form of the US Dietary Guidelines in
nineteen eighty. That is the exact inflection

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00:31:22,279 --> 00:31:27,839
point that obesity turns sharply upwards in
America, like a very strong inflection up

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00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,400
because those dietary guidelines are hugely influential, and all meat was bred to be

357
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leaner, all packaged foods changed.
You had some that maybe famous maybe known

358
00:31:40,359 --> 00:31:45,000
to your readers the snack well phenomenon, where you could eat low fat cookies

359
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all day long. That's fine as
long as they didn't have the fat.

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So people then gobbled up grains and
sugars and felt that was fine. So

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the low fat diet, this may
be a surprise to your listeners, but

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the low fat diet is no longer
recommended since two thousand and fifteen. Really,

363
00:32:06,079 --> 00:32:08,839
both the American Heart Association and the
US Dietary Guidelines, those are the

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00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:15,519
two major nutrition policies that exist in
our country. They both backed off any

365
00:32:15,559 --> 00:32:20,079
low fat language. You cannot find
if you search the words low fat,

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00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:27,279
you cannot find it on their websites
at all. So and they've kind of

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welcomed back into the fold things like
avocados and salmon and walnuts and almonds.

368
00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:38,119
I mean, those are now considered
okay, somewhat fatty things to eat.

369
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That was not true, you know, fifteen years ago. So they have

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backed off the low fat diet.
When they made that big change, they,

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00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,200
of course there was no press to
release to the public. They didn't

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00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,960
really tell anybody that policy had major
policy, a key pillar of nutrition policy

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of decades was changing so I think
a lot of Americans remain confused because our

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authorities really have not been straight with
us in letting everybody know that the low

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00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,799
fat diet is over. And I
would say it is still somewhat confusing because

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because we're still told to eat lean
meat and low fat dairy and one percent

377
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:30,680
milk. And that's because there's still
are caps on saturated fats, which are

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the kind of fats that are found
mostly in animal foods, and so that's

379
00:33:34,759 --> 00:33:39,519
why we're still told to avoid red
meat, or that that was the original

380
00:33:39,559 --> 00:33:43,720
reason we were told to avoid red
meat, and why we're not allowed to

381
00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:49,720
serve whole milk and schools, and
why we're still told to eat to avoid

382
00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:54,839
butter and eat whatever plant based version
there is as an alternative. So how

383
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,599
long will that last? I think? I think the low fat diet is

384
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,960
over. It just needs to be
recognized as such. I think the caps

385
00:34:02,039 --> 00:34:07,799
unsaturated fat, which really is the
main focus of my book, that those

386
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,960
saturated fats were unfairly villainized, and
it's a pretty amazing story about how that

387
00:34:13,039 --> 00:34:20,039
happened. There has been there's been
a huge change in the way that scientists

388
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:23,400
all over the globe now think about
saturated fats. I would I have to

389
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:29,039
say, I think in part or
largely because of my work on this,

390
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:34,840
Like I really a lot of scientists
read my book and there's now many papers

391
00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:40,760
that agree with me. But in
terms of official policy, it is so

392
00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:46,920
hard to roll back that particular policy. And in fact, the World Health

393
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:52,159
Organization just came out and said,
we believe you should keep caps on saturated

394
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:55,920
fat for the That's the first time
they've issued any dietary recommendation on that.

395
00:34:57,199 --> 00:35:02,000
And our government is not budging on
saturate facts for a bunch of reasons.

396
00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:07,280
But it's not about the science.
Once again, not about the science.

397
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:15,719
And I think it's interesting. Last
in December, there is even legislation to

398
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,039
allow whole milky serve in schools.
Finally, of course, Senate Democrats that

399
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,440
shot that down. It's not it's
not clear why, but you had that

400
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:29,679
the Senate Agriculture Committee sair Woman w
Stavna from Michigan talk about go on the

401
00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:34,719
Senate floor and talk about how high
fat dairy products are still not recommended by

402
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,039
the dietary guidelines for schools, and
so it just feels like it's feel like

403
00:35:39,079 --> 00:35:45,599
pulling teeth, trying to trying to, I guess, change government guidelines on

404
00:35:45,639 --> 00:35:49,840
this issue, when when the evidence
is so clear at this point, even

405
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,840
even without digging into the scientific research
here, I think you can Americans can

406
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:59,440
plainly see that the level of product
disease and obesity in this country since the

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00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:05,320
sixties and seventies is really unprecedented.
And of course it coincides with a clear

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00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:12,679
change in diet and so but I'm
curious it just in case any of our

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listeners are curious too. As a
nutrition journalist who's been covering this for about

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twenty years, do you still pay
attention to how much fat you're eating in

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your diet? Do you worry about
do you count how many grams of thatt

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00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,480
you're eating per day? Or what
are kind of some of the limits that

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you might follow for your own in
your own life. Well, I do

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not count calories. I think that's
completely pointless. One of the great freeing

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things of moving from the low fat
diet which I was on for decades.

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I was also a vegetarian for twenty
five years, but moving away from that

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to a diet that is low in
carbohydrates, So I donate sugars or grains,

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and I have some berries is fruit, but otherwise I really don't eat

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much fruit. And I eat a
lot of animal proteins and I'm not afraid

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of them, and I eat them
with they're fat. So I don't have

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lean meats. I have meat with
the fat that comes with it, and

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eggs and fish and chicken. And
I think so one of the things that

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fat and protein do in your diet
is they satiate you. So when we

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00:37:31,559 --> 00:37:36,679
were avoiding fat, we didn't realize, oh, but maybe that fat has

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00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,559
more calories program but fat is uniquely
satiating. In other words, you just

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00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:45,239
fill up, you feel full,
and that stops you from overeating. You

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00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:51,039
don't eat too many calories. If
you stick to fats and proteins mostly in

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00:37:51,079 --> 00:37:57,400
your diet, you naturally do not
overeat. And that liberates anybody. But

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00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,440
I mean, I felt very liberated
from I'm counting calories, counting carbs,

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00:38:02,519 --> 00:38:08,000
counting anything. I just eat until
I'm full and then or a little even

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00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:12,760
more than full, and then I
don't snack, and then I wait till

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00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,880
the next meal, and then I
eat until I'm full again. And I

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00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:21,159
usually have two meals a day.
I skip breakfast which is a little fasting,

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00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:28,400
but that just works really well.
I'm twenty five pounds less than I

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00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:34,800
was when I was in my twenties, and it's completely effortless for me to

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00:38:36,119 --> 00:38:40,119
maintain my weight doing this, and
it's very freeing not to have to think

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00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:46,239
about food, worry about food count
any kind of macronutrients or anything. And

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00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,719
so I highly recommend it as a
way to eat, and I think it's

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00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:57,039
safe and effective for it's also effective
for reversing a number of metabolic conditions and

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00:38:57,159 --> 00:39:06,079
chronic diseases. Surprising things like I
had a skin condition on my face that

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00:39:06,199 --> 00:39:08,719
just disappeared. I had sinus infections
that went away. I mean, I

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00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,280
had no idea any of that was
related to diet, but now I understand

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00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:19,559
why that's true. But people see
remarkable improvements in a number of ways by

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00:39:20,119 --> 00:39:23,800
cutting out sugars and starches, no
grains, no sugar, and then really

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00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:30,880
not being afraid to have protein and
fat. Well, I definitely think many

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00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,559
of our listeners would welcome that message
on Why Butter, Meat and Cheese Blog

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00:39:34,639 --> 00:39:38,360
and a Healthy Diet. Nina,
thank you for joining us. Thanks so

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00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:43,079
much for having me. It was
great talking to you you've been listening to

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00:39:43,119 --> 00:39:45,559
another edition of Federalist Radio Hour.
I'm interested Justice. We'll be back soon

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00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:49,239
with more. Until then, be
lovers of freedom and anxious for the pray