What is krak Alakin Hardwin Knocks listeners, I am Damp Valley coming at you
with my fantabulous co host Adam Promwell. Today. I'm just recording a quick
intro because we recorded we went sort of deep into the Celtics next series,
Pelican's Sons as well, and also talked about the youngsters showing out in this
year's playoffs, specifically Jordan pool, Tires, Maxie and the not so young
Jalen Brunson. But we recorded that podcast before the news about Chris Middleton broke
that he has this sprained left MCL and is going to be revaluated in two
weeks meeting that he's out for this series of the Bucks make it for Round
two, maybe most part of that one. So that's a big blow to
them, especially because they lost Game two and they almost lost Game one after
getting out too that huge lead. So I wanted to talk about the impact
of that really quickly before we dive into that actual podcast, and we will
have more on the Grizzlies Timberwolves in a future podcast. That series has been
a freaking acid trip and it's been tough to get a grips on, but
super enjoyable for me specifically anyway, until we are not neglecting them. That's
just been we talked about it off air bunch. That's been the toughest series
for us to sort of wrap our heads around, just sort of looking at
the counters, the high variants on two teams that like to get out in
transition. So it's been a fun one. Minnesota blowing that huge lead,
will certainly have to test their metal looking ahead to Game four, but we
will again go a little bit more in depth with them on another podcast.
So with Middleton and the Bucks, I picked a Buck sweep. No,
I think I gave the Bulls a game which they've already gotten. I think
you could easily argue that they're going to get at least another one. The
Bucks, to me, should still advance, but they're in real danger of
losing this series. There are there are things that you can look at correcting
that have gone wrong through the first two games. Uh, you know some
of their You know, Drew Holiday is going to have to shoot better,
That's just the thing, and he should eventually. Janice would be nice if
he shot better as well, especially at the at the three from line.
I'm talking about his jumpers, specifically, if he's going to take threes,
which I do think there is value in his just volume overall, you're gonna
still want him to hit them at a higher clip than you know, sixteen
points seven percent hitting was the two of one to six through his first two
games. Not a huge volume, but fifty eight point six percent of the
foul line is the number that's going to stand out more. Those need to
go down at a higher rate. The Bucks, I still think, could
probably do a better job of getting out in transition on live balls. Give
credit to the Bulls' defense for really hassling them and slowing them down on the
catch, especially when you're looking at Chicago after missus, the Bucks got on
the break about thirty two percent of the time for cleaning the glass after missing
after grabbing a defensive rebound. During the regular season, that numbers down below
twenty six percent in this series through two games. You look at some of
the other vitals and it's not like Milwaukee has lost the three point battle.
They're winning the three the free throw battle, but they should be winning it
by more given the number of free throws that they've taken. You know,
you're looking at even just second chance opportunities points off turners, Like, there's
no big gap here, just aside from the fact that the Bulls have done,
I think, a much better job of executing their defensive game plan overall,
and kudos to Alex Caruso picked up some big reps against Janis in game
two the Bucks for the series, and I would hazard a lot of this
is from game two specifically, as a team matchup data is imperfect when I'm
just looking at this as a team. On the possessions in which Alex Caruso
is registered as a primary defender or partial defender. On honest, the Bucks
are averaging as a team point eight nine points per possession. That is really
freaking low, and it's a testament to the job. But I think the
Bulls have done kind of throwing Milwaukee out of sorts there, and I think
you could, you know, make the argument that there's a level of unsustainability
to the way that the Bulls are defending. But it's not like they're shooting
the lights out from three collectively at the other end, or shooting a ton
of threes in general. Zach Lavine is just not playing his best basketball right
now. And I know he has the knee thing going on, but we've
seen him play better. Nicola Vouchers had a really off Game one before going
off in Game two. This has not been you know, like a necessarily
an ideal offensive series for them. It's even been tight for Demard Rosen at
points. He is you know, he is yet to make a three.
He's O four in the series. Patrick Williams is also O four from three
in the series. You have two of those guys if you have to make
threes. They've been I don't want to say thrown out of their element,
but they've even explored some Derek Jones Junior at the five combinations because of the
way that Milwaukee plays, which I you know, some of those minutes have
looked pretty good for them. So kudos to Billy Donovan for making that adjustment.
But I'm just saying that I don't think that the Bulls have played above
their head in this series. And that's you know, maybe defensively, but
I think they have the potential to be even better on offense, even though
Milwaukee is built to come up a lot of what Chicago does. That being
said, it becomes a lot harder without Chris Middleton and the Bucks should be
okay. Defensively, you still have Wesley Matthews, who's done a lot of
heavy lists in there to begin with. You can go with Pat Conaton,
though I think they'll probably lean on Grayson Alton Allen more than Pat Conaton,
just given incandescon Grayson Allen was at points during the regular season not to be
confused with what's happened in this series where he has just not really played a
factor whatsoever. He is he had to hit a three if we're going over
players, if he had to the three in this series. So I think
it's going to impact them. It impacts their defense because I just think you're
plugging in someone who's worse than Middleton there as well. But it's gonna hurt
you even more on offense, where Middleton is just your second primary ball handler
essentially, and I'm not you know, Jannie is going to get more fron
Core touches and he has improved his playmaking a lot, but Johannis is not
the guy that you want to slow things down and run pick and roll.
That is Drew and Chris Middleton on this team. We've seen it in crunch
time where they want to even go with the two man game with Jannis,
you need a Drew or Chris Middleton to initiate whatever actions you want to run
there. That's not Yannis's game, and Yannis cannot you know, run actions
for Yannis in those situations, Like Jannis is so dangerous in part because of
the things that he can do away from the ball or someone who's not going
to get the ball to a little bit later in some of the places.
Yes, we want to see Jannie get out and run, but being more
realistic, when you're slowing things down, you need to Drew Holiday and Chris
Middleton, both of them equally. And now Chris Middleton is just gone.
And if you're looking, you know, let's just throw the playoffs data out
of the equation for now. Like Drew Holiday and Chris Middleton were one and
two respectively in picking rolls run this season with the Bucks five per game for
Middleton, five point nine for Holiday. Janice was third at one point eight,
and so like they're not relying on it as much as other teams given
the way that they play, which is fine, but that's a huge drop
off. And so now all of a sudden you're looking at this from the
perspective of, oh shit are they is Javon Carter like the guy they're gonna
need to run picking rolls because you know, if George Hill was healthy,
which he hasn't been, He's had like one injury after another. Information on
that feels like it's been super murky. We already know that he's gonna be
out for Friday's games, So I guess there's at least that foresight there that's
going to put some real strain on Milwaukee's offense, I think. And so
you're gonna need to find a way to Yes, there's the element of okay,
well, Grayson Alan, should you better? Drew Holiday will have better
games, Maybe Janna slip more of his three throws, you can get on
the break after defensive rebounds a little bit more. There are things that the
Bucks can do, but their half, their life in the half court,
has gotten inherently and substantially more difficult without Chris Middleton, who for all the
Chris mid jokes that were being made, he was on the come up when
when he went down with that left mcl sprain. And this is a guy
who's had some big, pretty big playoff moments in the past, even predating
the Bucks as these super duper contender types. I don't know what this does
for Milwaukee's long term ceiling. When you're looking beyond this series, they're I
guess they're probably happy now with the way the Brackett ran out, Like this
is why you want to avoid the Nets, so that if you get into
this situation, you don't have to worry about being down. You know,
you were going up against the team that maybe you thought I could go punch
or punch with you, at least offensively to begin with, or maybe even
exceed your offense. But you lose Chris Middleton, and that, you know,
going up against Katie and Kyrie down your one star even with then that's
depth being as shadow as it is. That's just the thought process behind landing
in this three spot. And now though you get into the issue of okay,
well, you're either going to face Boston or Brooklyn in round two.
Maybe you view that as a better pull than Philly, which feels faded complete
at this point, or I'll just Miami that also feels faded complete too,
to be honest, But to do that without Chris Middleton and looking at what
Boston can just do defensively the way that they've really just rained hell down on
Katie's life. You're giving them, if it is Boston, just as an
example, like you're allowing them to zero win on be honest or Drew Holiday
even more than you already were. And so I think the next most like
the most important player now who needs to sort of the cliche of step up
Middleton's absence, I think it winds up being grace and Now, which is
a wildly uncomfortable place to be. And I do think it helps a little
bit for the Bucks, especially on defense that they have Brook Lopez, but
this Middleton absence I think they're going to feel And I would still pick them
to come out of this series. I did pick them to win in five.
I just they are at a real risk to me of losing this series.
Still, what does work in their favor to reiterate, I do think
a lot of the things that they've done wrong are correctable. I don't want
to discredit everything the Bulls have done. They have just the energy levels there.
That's another cliche, just like the effort they're putting in on defense,
and I've liked some of the lineup creativity there, and I do think that
you can argue that there's a kaboom game to come from a Zach Levine or
Demard Rozen. Still so interested to see whether the defense can hold up against
Milwaukee specifically. I didn't think the Bulls without Lonza were built very much to
defend these guys, and they've done a much better job of that. Again,
that's a huge that's a pretty big transition drop off when you're looking at
how much Milwaukee just rely on that in the first place, and to keep
them out of transition after they're grabbing rebounds to that degree, is it booked
twenty five percent of their possessions is still pretty high quipped, but it's it's
noticeably less than it was in the regular season. So that's my view on
the Chris Middleton injury. It is huge, really super quickly we talk about
Devin Bookers if he won't be playing again versus the Pelicans. We only mentioned
games three and four we recorded just before it came out that he would be
could miss as much as three weeks, So keep that in mind as we're
talking about his loss. I still think the Sun's ultimately fine that series.
I think it boils down to not to dismiss the Pelicans, who I was
too dismissive love in our preview. You know, maybe Phoenix can't figure out
the second chance opportunity stuff for New Orleans, but I would expect him to
do a better job of maybe mirroring minutes of Larry Nance Junior when he's at
the five, or just on the floor in general with their front court,
where you won't see Javal going up against Larry Nan Junior if there's no other
Pelicans big on the floor in those minutes. I also think that you can
expect the rest of the team to shoot better from three. David on Twitter
four point play at four point play, I believe he had pointed out that
Cam Johnson has also just been like mesmerizing when he started, and that's someone
who's gonna slot right into the starting lineup. I think you get better performances
from at the four point play. It's at the ivy point play, just
so just to be clear on that one. So there's that point at Cam
Johnson. I think like Jake Protter has to play better in this series.
At some point he has been I would say bad. The detrimental to them
through the first two games. Maybe you know, we saw some heightened aggression
from mcal Bridges in game two. I just I think they'll be fine.
But if Devin Booker is gonna miss three weeks, there's no such thing as,
you know, an easy walk through the Western Conference. And maybe you're
not afraid of Dallas if you don't have Booker and your Phoenix, you definitely
shouldn't be afraid of Utah at this point. Let's let's be honest, but
if you're gonna face Dallas and they have Luca back at that point, you're
missing Booker for any sort of time he has carried their offense or at least
and like their shop making specifically, we saw that in game two. That's
a huge loss. You still think they get out of this series, though,
and so I'm hoping all these guys get healthy. Fuck injuries forever and
ever and ever whatever. You always want to see the best players on the
court. Sucks with happening to Scotty Barnes in Toronto as well. Before we
dive into the real meat metails of this podcast, the final thing I will
say is please remember to rate and review this podcast wherever you consume it.
If you haven't done so well already. If you haven't subscribed, definitely do
that. Consider throwing us a subscription permanently. If this is your first time
listening, follow us on the YouTube YouTube dot com search Hardwinknox We will come
up. Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter. All the handles and
the links are in the podcast description, but it's at Hardwood Knox on Twitter,
at Hardwood Underscore Knox on ig, and at Hardwin Knox on TikTok.
Join our discord, come have some fun with us. The link is in
the podcast description to come hang out. Let's dive into a lot of NBA
playoffs talk now, though we welcome back my fantabulous co host, Adam Problem.
We should probably start with Celtics nets, just because that's the freshest in
our minds. Were recording this like thirty minutes after Game two, in which
Brooklyn Blue I think they led by his money at seventeen. I think they
scored like negative two in the fourth quarter. Is that right? Yeah?
Look, Kevin Durant had more turnovers than made field goals. He had combined
eleven personal foulsand turnovers to four made field goals. Can I just say that
I'm like, not that surprise, and I'm not talking about Kevin Durant specifically
so much as Brooklyn's offensive struggles in general, because isn't this sort of the
natural byproduct of the best defensive team in the NBA going against a super isocentric
Brooklyn offense that quite honestly does not seem to be particularly well coached with Steve
Nash on the sidelines, and like, yeah, Robert Williams is out and
I stand by him as my DPOY leader, even though Marcus Smart was was
very deserving in and of itself, but he is more of a luxury than
anything else in this particular series because there isn't that interior pressure from Brooklyn.
So this this defense is still set up to thrive against it and just re
havoc with the switches and the double teams that they can throw at these stars
without the shooting around it to bolster the offense. It's like, nothing about
these offensive struggles have really caught me by surprise, and I'm curious if you
feel the same way. I mean, it's a little surprising. I Kevin
Durant had like a capsa bad game in Game two and that's just not something.
It wasn't that great in game one either. Yeah, but he's definitely
miss shots that he would normally hit. But I've never seen a defense impact
him like this. And gook Kyrie in game two. After a mesmerizing Game
one performance, he was bat in Game two for Brooklyn as well, and
you do get look, the math is going to start to get you there
because you're supporting cast. Okay, you've gone drugage, Like you can only
lean on some of these guys so much. There's also certain lineups. Yeah,
Boston might try and get away with a little too much Daniel tie,
but if you're going to try and play Bigs against some of Boston's other lineups,
like that's not going. That has not worked out as well for the
Nets either. And also it's like their offense in the aggregate has not been
dooming gloom. But you talk about it being ISO and it's just you look
at the fourth quarter of game two, specifically, when Boston is driving,
there's like an unpredictability although are they gonna kick? Is there gonna be like
an extra three passes after that kick? And with Brooklyn it's like, oh,
Kyrie, every he's driving he's gonna shoot it, or Kevin Durant's gonna
bail out and he's gonna shoot it. And there's like this that absence of
improvisation I get, or the lack of just creativity offensively in the fourth quarters
really come back to bite them. And I was impressed for a good chunk
of the game. Definitely in the first half. It actually how physical the
Nets were defending. And I give Boston all the kudos in the world.
There's there are two guys on Kevin Durant at basically all times in this series.
It feels like, but I do wonder part of me is just like
Steve Nash said in December that the minutes Kevin Durant was playing were dangerous,
unsafe, and untenable. And Kevin Durant, I think got injured after that.
He's been averaging like basically forty minutes for more than a month or over
the past month now, and part of me just wonders, like between him
and Kyrie playing all these minutes and look for Kyrie to take this as a
joke or a troll or a pot shot, but like you go from playing
like once or twice a week or even not at all to now having a
play sort of every other day. I mean, you're locking these heavy minutes.
He was also fasting for Ramedan. He broke as fast in the middle
of the game, and I just imagine that has to be super taxing on
his body as well. And part of me just wonders, like if the
lack of depth of the Nets roster is starting to catch up with them,
and it is, but to not see them counter with like any sort of
fourth quarter creativity. And it's look at the last possession of Game one,
people were like, Kyrie and Katie need to trust their teammates more, and
it's kind of like, yes, but they're not, like that's just that's
how the Nets have played, is they're going to run the ball through their
superstars. And if those guys are tired or there's not calls from them to
do something a little bit more creative than attack themselves, what else are you
supposed to do? I have most of the credits to Boston, I want
to be clear, but I'm just wondering how much fatigue and then just the
lack of innovation offensively, which can happen when you have superstars. I want
to make that clear right, we can fall into the low of leaning on
them to create something from nothing too much. The last possession for each team
in Game one, I feel like that's just the perfect microcosm of the series
as a whole, because we saw kyrie Le dribble the ball into a double
team, couldn't get open, kept trying to dribble his way open, it
didn't work, forced up a shot, it didn't work. Then on the
other end, Boston's kind of in a scramble drill, Jalen Brown kicks it
to Marcus Smart, who turns down a pretty decent look considering the situation and
the chance to win the game. There to find Jayson Tatum for that reticulously
impressive spinning layup. It's it's one team try to do it all by itself,
and it's the other team working as an actual team. Often during the
series, during the first two games, it's felt like Brooklyn is trying to
set a new record for the most possessions without a single pass in playoff history.
I have no idea how to track that or how to find what the
record is, but it might be Brooklyn. By the end of it.
Utah might be giving them a run. For their money too, with all
the one pass possessions that they've had versus Dallas. It's look Boston, their
defense is hellfire. And in Game two, specifically to rally like Jason Tatum
not even having like doesn't have the best offensive game, but he was just
he was fantastic defensively that team Al Horford before he fouled out, Like,
he made a lot of big plays at that end. They've been able to
force Kevin Durant into tough decisions, tough shots and losing the ball. It's
just something I've never seen happen, at least that I can recall immediately right
now to Kevin Durant. And you know this isn't This will definitely be a
tightly contested if it is a Celtics in five type of series. I did
predict the Celtics in five. I just thought these games wouldn't be as close
as they've actually been because of my lack of trust and the nets there and
just based off because we're discussing this, can you guess what Brooklyn's offensive rating
was in the fourth quarter of a Game two, like forty eight eighty five,
which is incredibly blow So that was a bit of a troll response,
but I think a legit guess would have been like the low seventies. It
feels like they did not deserve to be the eighties. And I don't know
what you do to change this series, and I touched on this in the
mail bag. I'm gonna throw it to you though, because now we have
the two of us. If Benji Simmons comes back for and maybe we'll have
the news on this already, But if he comes back by game four,
like, does he even materially change? I think so because Boston's offense is
slow downable and Simmons is Simmons is a game changing defender, and I think
that just having that option frees up Durant and Irving to expend more energy on
offense and not get so bogged down, because ultimately these games have been close
even with them trying to carry just an inordinately large load. They've also both
been on the parquet floors of the TD Garden, and series are not over
until a team wins on the road, you know, unless it goes seven,
of course, But it does feel like Simmons can move the needle enough
even if he's an absolute zero on offense, because some other players on Brooklyn
have been absolute zeros on offense already, and he's probably not going to be
because of his passing and transition game. Here's my thing is, what do
you actually expect him to do defensively after not playing for a year. Honestly,
it just doesn't. Yeah, I mean I don't. I don't think
he's gonna be like that that floor roaming, do everything switchable guy. But
if you give him a help assignment or ask him to be the double teamer,
you know that he's still physically able to recover because this hasn't been like
a devastating injury that's kept him from working out or staying in shape throughout the
time away, right because to the best of our knowledge, Yeah, because
practice is definitely a good proxy for NBA games or one on zero. No,
it's it's it's not. But like I would expect something out of him
defensively, and he's too talented and quite simply too long. That would be
fair. Now, my concern would actually be on the offensive end. If
you get him in transition, fine, and if minutes you know, I
mean some of the Kevin Durant minutes in Game two or a Problem or Brooklyn.
But like if you're trying to win the one star minutes, let's say
you attach Ben Simmons, Kyrie Irving or Kevin Durant try and get them out
in transition. I can't if you're playing Ben Simmons, I don't know what
the pathway is to playing then a big End or Bruce Brown, and that's
where things would start to bog down. I guess you can play one or
the other because we've seen Bruce Brown play with Nick Klaxton or Andre Drummond in
this series. But that's something you have to consider as well, and so
you're eventually sacrifice. We're making it. I know Ben Simmons defensively is better
than any of the guys I just mentioned, but that's going to be a
trade off that you sort of have to reconcile here. And I don't believe
that he's as clear I think if you have. But I guess the other
thing is just let's just say you're willing to surround him with enough shooters.
It has to be a minimum of three. You need a minimum of three
shooters around Ben Simmons, which is kind of easy to get to with Kyrie
or KD. My question would then be, are you actually putting the ball
in his hands ever, or are you going to I shouldn't say ever,
that's mean are you going to cater to the fact that he's better or more
effective with the ball, or are you going to have him do more dunker
spots stuff. Are you gonna have him be the primary screener, which is
a role that I think each of us and many people have called for him
to play, but he's never done so extensively, and it's never looked necessarily
great when he's done so in small bursts, And so you're able to just
come in and do something you've never necessarily had to do, at least at
this volume, and then do it effectively would be something that I'd be very
concerned about. Yeah, I think I think all of those are valid concerns,
but just from a bigger picture perspective, Like if we look at what's
happened in the first two games. Boston won Game one on a scrambling ridiculous
a sequence that resulted in the first game winning buzzer beater at home in Boston
Celtics playoff history. Game two, also at home, Boston one via a
I believe it was a sixteen point comeback with an absolute Brooklyn collapse in the
fourth quarter and an uncharacteristically poor performance from Kevin Durant. If Simmons gives them
anything as the year, as the series shifts home or comes back to Boston
in Game five, I don't know that it has to be a good fit
because ultimately, like even a fifty percent Ben Simmons trying to integrate himself into
a new lineup with entirely new teammates is going to be a defensive upgrade over
some of what is joining the two stars on the floor already. So I
get the schematic questions. I think they're all totally valid concerns that might matter
in a different series, but based on what we've seen in this one,
like that could be enough to tip the scales already because the margin has been
so small in both games so far, right, I just I don't know
how you can ascribe that much value to someone who hasn't played in a year.
And it's not even returning to this, but is it is it that
much value to just be like, you know, if he takes the minutes
that are being played by Goran drag I can't. After he was going draws
from eight to fourteen in Game two and kept the offense afloat what do you
want to bet on that continuing? Don't want to bet on it. If
you're asking me whether I think is a better chance of impacting this series than
Ben Simmons, I'm going to tell you that I think he has a better
really, Okay, okay, I feel like that's is that a hot take
at this point? I don't know. I don't. I just don't know
what you can expect from Ben Simmons offensively, aminimum should he come back?
What is the if you remove Ben Simmons from the equation? Do you see
anything that the Nets can do to change the outcome of like game three,
Game four, just moving forward? Honestly? Not really, because I don't.
I don't think I expect them the games to continue to be close,
but I think Boston has more juice to squeeze on offense than Brooklyn does.
Right now, they're not. Brooklyn has shown no in game adjustments, no
between game adjustments to convince me that some strategic masterpiece is coming that pushes the
game plan to something beyond let's give the ball to our starts and get out
of the way, and there's an answer to that, as we've seen,
and there's even just like I would argue, for much of Game two they
played above their heads defensively, and so that's just like I feel like they
start to run out of talent pretty quickly after Keimn Durand and Kyrie Irving and
Boston has at least shown that they're uniquely built to impact at least one of
them. You can like Kyrie had a masterful Game one and Keimn Durant struggled,
Like maybe it's one of those is more of the norm than both of
them not having great games. They combined to go eight of thirty four,
which is just like considering the why to win with that? Yeah, so
what would be? Do you have an adjusted prediction? I had Celtics in
five and I'm not going to move off of it now, but like,
do you see this? Is it like I had Celtics in seven going in
and I think I'm on board with you with Celtics in five. Now do
you think so? We both think it's kind of curtains for Brooklyn here,
as as curtains as it can be when it's been so razor thin to this
point, I just I see more improvements coming from Boston than I do Brooklyn.
The Simmons factor notwithstanding, I would like to see at this point because
I don't think they care about Kevin Durant's body. Clearly, maybe it's time
to try playing without a big for more stretches or any stretches at all,
Like rather than having Nick Claxton and or Drummond on the court, just just
try it, I mean, and Ben Simmons making it easier obviously, but
for the time being, that might be something I'd try to get. Weird,
but the nets have not showed. I've seen I think Kevin Durant closed
like one or two games this year as the day fact of five next to
Bruce Brown, but not a ton. I don't it's weird to sound so
doom and gloom with the team that has Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving and just
had a double digit lead pretty handily against the Celtics. But man Boston's defense
and just like their ability to keep coming at you. I mean, Jalen
Brown doesn't really have a great game until against the fourth quarter, and then
he just absolutely goes off and the offense on the stretch right, and then
the motor that they have on defense not being impacted by how much they're struggling
on offense. That's probably a cliche to say, but there was. I
think it was a kimber if it was the third quarter to close the second
half at this point, like Jason tam just wasn't touching the ball. Brooklyn
did a good job of the nine at him, but he went possessions without
getting the ball, and then there he is on defense just still fucking shit
up. So this team is scary. And I wrote the Celtics off when
they were in their early season to lay. So I can't be like,
oh I was ahead of them or anything. Even without RW three, they
look like a team that could actually come out of these This defense, I
said, the word is hellfire. Their defense is hell fire. I couldn't
agree more. I think coming out of the East has to be the goal
at this point. Nothing, nothing short of that is acceptable given how well
they've played. Acceptable. Yeah, I mean I think it's it's massively disappointing
if they lose at any point in the Eastern Conference side of the playoffs at
this point. If good the boss is disappointing. Absolutely, that is a
hot take. Why what is it? Because this team has played like the
best team in the NBA for the second half of the season, But you're
saying that there's a huge gap then between them. Just I mean, disappointing
is relative. I'm not saying like, oh my goodness, we need to
blow things up if they don't. But yeah, like there's reason for fans
to be disappointed if they're not representing the East, given how how good this
team is. Maybe that's hot. I'll stand by it. Fans to be
disappointed. It feels like a different framing than the Celtics would be a disappointment.
I meant, I meant Joka into third a third of the coach at
the top three of Coach of the Year voting, just saying the Celtics are
going to be a disappointment if they don't come out of no fans, fans
would have a right to be disappointed. Thank you for catching me on the
phrasing. That's and that's fair because I think the extra I would The other
thing is like Tatum and Brown have played together for a while now, going
to break them up is That's what I'm they don't win a title just they
both need to leave town. I do agree with you that it's fair to
expect that this team could come out of it. No, this is this
season is not a disappointment for Boston, just to be clear. But but
yes, given how well this team has played, like it's real, it
is reasonable to come out of the Yes, that's what I'm trying to say.
And failing out that is we both failed there, But that is That's
a perfect segue into Son's Pelicans Devin Booker hamstring strain out games three and four.
At least that look, the Pelicans aren't going away. They were.
I want to point this, actually I have, I have. I don't
know if this is a classic Dan rant, and I went on a twenty
five minute I did the solo mail bag up a few things. When Devin
Booker went down. The Suns were actually losing by three, so this is
not the Pelicans catching some huge break. So that's the only reason they won
the game. And I would also like to point out that Zion Williamson is
not playing. That is a pretty massive piece to not have on your team.
I know the Sun's dealt with their own absences during the regular season,
Booker eton Cam Johnson towards the NCP three as well. The Pelicans are missing
Zion Williamson, who is an All NBA player at full strike. Just let's
not forget how good Zion Williamson is. If you want to make fun of
how out of shape he was coming into this season, still feels like gray
areas he's so at the end of the day, you could be like a
forty something guy making fun of a you know, young adults. Weight is
just it's weird. I get he's under a microscope as the MBA. They're
missing Zion, so they're not getting lucky here. They've already been unlucky by
not having him. What do you think this does to change the complexion of
the series, knowing that Devin Booker is not going to be there for two
games at least. I actually, I don't think it changes that much in
my head, because as good as Booker is, it feels like the Pelicans
have overachieved through the first two games, where like they're shooting forty nine point
one percent on threes as a team, and Phoenix has been a machine while
missing pieces before, and I just I don't expect that to change. I
mean Game two was also a Scott Foster officiated game, and that's fourteen straight
losses for Chris Paul teams in the playoffs with Foster blowing the whistle, So
like that's a factor too. I don't think it was a huge factor in
Game two. I didn't really feel like it was egregiously officiated or anything,
but like there's still that undercurrent. I would like to interject though, do
you ever problem with people making jokes about that? No, neither do I
anyone on Twitter who was sort of just policing people making what was clearly a
joke, even brands about the Scott Foster record when he's ref or CB three's
record in the postseason. When Scott Foster the ref, that's fucking funny and
shut the hell up. It's like it's a demonstrated pattern. And also Foster
has Tim Donny ties, so like, yes, you can make those jokes,
Yeah you can, So thank you. I'm just glad that we're on
the same phage there because I was just I mean, I think it's a
legitimate thing. I don't. I don't think that it was a big factor
in game too, to be clear, Like I'm mostly joking here, not
entirely, but mostly there was a sentiment on Twitter that it was somehow damaging
the game or making perception of the game unfair. And I won't tweet this
because I try not to be super combative on Twitter, but like, shut
the hell up, like this is this aspect of stuff is fun. What
is clearly over the top jokes. It's better than the incessant complaining about refs
that you see in every single playoff series all the time. It's better than
talking about the defensive Player of the Year discourse or the Nicola Yoki shouldn't be
the MVP conversation, a lot of a lot of toxicence Foster debate is more
reasonable than right just like I apologize for interrupting now, no no, I
mean, but I mean like again, like forty nine point one percent as
a team on threes, and it feels like a lot of the role players
are overachieving right now, Like we haven't seen that this version of Larry Nance
Junior in years, brandon Ingram just making a superstar leap all of a sudden
against a defense as potent as Phoenixes and just nailing one shot after another like
he is incapable of missing, I mean towards the end of that, and
Game two was just so phenomenally entertaining down the stretch. The shot making from
both teams on display was just superb, and Ingram chief among everyone just net
not even rippling on these difficult turnaround jumpers that he's hitting. So it feels
like there's so many things that would have to continue for New Orleans to even
have a chance. Not to mention that their roster is so heavily comprised of
players who haven't been here before, you know, Ingram is still in his
first postseason series. They're playing three rookies, prominent minutes, prominent roles.
That's tough as a series advances and the adjustments get made, especially with a
first year head coach who's done a great job to this point. On the
sidelines, Phoenix remains a machine and has a lot of schematic advantages even without
Devin Booker there, So I think these games get tighter. I think that
Phoenix actually has to worry a little bit, which might play to its advantage
because there will ultimately be a little bit more urgency than we'd otherwise have seen
in a first round series that didn't seem like it was going to be particularly
competitive, But I'm not. I don't think that we should all of a
sudden be writing off the Suns in this first round series, which seems like
some people want to do. This could very well end up being a five
gamer. Yeah, and I talked about this. We've probably I probably dismissed
the Pelicans a little too much in our preview by predicting a sweep, which
is funny because I was probably early or at least ahead of them than a
lot of other people nationally. But I'm just looking at the Suns, is
like these machines. I New Orleans has blown me away in this series.
What are the you know? And I think there are things that Phoenix can
do to where It's offense without Booker was pretty below It was around below average
when he was off the court this season. They still won the minutes when
CP three played without him by think over ten points per one hundred possessions.
I'm not too worried about their offense. There's been I mean, not having
your best score and your best your second best shot creator is certainly going to
be a problem. I just feel like they might have to be a little
bit more concerned about the defense side of things, where in Game two specifically,
it felt like the Guards weren't getting back in transition is quickly enough.
And I was digging in the data on this. They've actually won the minutes
that Javal McGee has played against Larry Nance Junior in this series, but the
Pelicans have won the minutes when they've used Larry Nance Juniors their day Facto five.
And I'm just wondering during those stretches if you need to steer clear completely
of Javal at center and whether it's eighten because eight and his matchup proof like
eight and versus Larry Nance Jr. Is not a mismatch, Or do you
even lean into like, Okay, is Tory Craig the five there or is
it a Tory Craig and Jay Crowner combination. Those are things I'm watching for
because I think winning certain tweaks or on the margins like that becomes paramount,
at least for these next two games when you don't have Devin Booker agreed,
and I if I'm the Suns, I'm leaning heavily on Aiden for the rest
of this series because you force the mismatches and you force the Pelicans to have
to play their true bigs as much as they can to try to slow him
down, and ultimately, like, without Devin Booker generating offense, you're leaning
as heavily as you can on the Chris Paul pick and roll game. And
I don't think there's an answer to that in this series, especially with the
wrinkles the Sun's throw in on their pick and rolls, and they felt like
they got away from them sometimes in Game two, like you can't even track
unless you go back and well, at least for me, I can't even
track everything that's happening on a Phoenix Suns pick and roll because there's so much
happening, And like, let's not overlook that in game two after the Booker
injury, that offense was still scorching down the stretch. It was just an
execution and shot making masterpiece for both sides. So this to me is more
about the Phoenix defense turning it up then, like, oh, no,
where are they going to turn for offense because that's not going to be an
issue. Yeah, they did have I was it felt like it shouldn't have
been this tide, but they had a one forty fourth quarter offensive rating against
the Pelicans, and it just didn't It didn't or they had a one twenty
four offensive reading it because the Pels. Just to put that in context for
any listeners who might not be able to do that just off the cuff,
that's like better than Brooklyn's was. In game two, the Sun seemed a
little bit more human and crunch time. I will when it got down to
that, yeah, I will say I will say that much. And I
do think that maybe seeing Devin Booker go down mid game like that impacts how
you're going to play. There were shots that you know, Cam Johnson missed
and I feel like he would normally hit. I do just hopingly think you
have Chris Paul as long as he's healthy, you're going to be fine.
And as you mentioned, having eighten and Michael Bridges is just you can quibble
about his level of aggression kind of waxing and waning, but like when he
you can put the ball in his hands and it's not hey, go run
set, pick and rolls. But if you're kicking out to him in the
corner or just giving him the ball like in the middle of your set,
like he will keep defenders on till by putting the ball on the floor and
so there are just counters that there. And even Cam Johnson is probably if
you wanted someone to go generate their shot from scraps, that's where I was
going to go. I think there's some scalability to his offensive we haven't seen
because we have had to right and I would argue you would pick him to
do that more than mchal Bridges since that's not his style. It's I'm just
interested to see like kind of what happens with the lineups, and I don't
know, you know, I guess shout out to Willie Green for sticking with
Jackson Hayes to start the game in game two, and that might be you
know, I think that increases the importance of winning some of these games on
the margins, because like, you're not going to win the rebounding battle just
they are. The Phoenix is I think dead last in opponent offensive rebounding rate
for the playoffs right now, which makes sense because they're going up against the
Pelicans. And the other thing they mentioned this on the sun of broadcast,
which makes a lot of sense, is that even when the Pelicans aren't getting
their offensive rebounds, there are just bodies around you because they're trying to get
offensive rebounds and that's going to then slow down your mode of offensive operation.
And my sentiment was to that is can you do something like maybe try and
throw more aggressive outlet passes? And I don't even know if you could do
that depending on size trees or around you when it's happening. So that,
I think is why it's really important to be like, okay, if Larry
Nance Junior is really I don't want to say hurting again, the Pelicans are
plus one point eight points per one hundred possessions with Larry Nance Junior at center
in this series, and it's been longer stretches than I would have anticipated,
but that's still that's a big deal. It's the suns. So I feel
like something there, whether it's can you win the transition battle? Can you
limit the second chance of points opportunities? Do you need to counter the lineups
for Larry NaN's junior? Is your excuse me? Is the center for them?
Can you do more things to get after Like I was a little bit
disappointed towards the start of that game with Phoenix's offense, like not it felt
like they weren't putting Jackson Hayes in enough actions when they were getting into their
offense, Like, those are the things that I'm going to be watching here.
If Devin, let's just say Devin Booker doesn't play again this series,
what do you think happens? Is this still Sun's victory in your eyes?
At the risk of dismissing the Pelicans again, because I admit that we did
that a little too strongly going into the series. I and I don't want
to discredit how awesome and fun and deadly and dangerous this Pelicans team can be
and will be for years into the future. But it kind of feels like
the Booker injury is kind of obfuscating the bigger picture here, which is like
the Pelicans came out with their best shot in Game two and pulled off an
awesome victory. I'm not sure they're going to get another one. I might.
I might still lean Phoenix in five here, even without Booker playing again.
And the other thing I'll kind of point out is I don't actually I'll
give you a chance to guess over under on the Pelicans three point percentage in
this series forty seven, Well, it's forty nine point one percent. Sorry,
you knew that they are not already said it on this episode. It's
like you're not even listening to me here. Oh I must have missed that
then, So I think you said it twice too, madam, that you
would expect to regress it. I love questions like that that make me look
good, by the way, like the more of those, the better you
have to I mean Brandon Ingram and CJ McCollum. If hit and this doesn't
extend adjust the three point, like the shot that Brandon Ingram was hitting in
game two, we're just unfathomably difficult. You have to think like, oh,
Herb Jones and Trey Murphy the third like or their SHOT's going to continue
to fall me. I mean Trey Murphy was the best hys might that shot
looks good even? I mean Jose Alvarado having that night of going to for
two, is that someone you still expect to you know, he's actually been
reliable off to catch in those situations. So the level I do think the
level of difficulty, even when I feel like there hasn't been a defender close
enough too, it's been mostly CJ McCollum. After he's run a pick and
roll when I feel like they could have contested a little bit better or defended
it better. They've made the shots inherently difficult, and I feel like that's
gonna eventually tilt towards the Sun's favor. But I will say the and no
opportunity is open for the Pelicans because they were going to punch for punch before
the Devin Booker injury. And that's what makes this, I think, such
a compelling series for these next two games, specifically when Devin Booker is not
in. And look, if you're the Suns, let's be honest, if
you can split in New Orleans and you open the door for Devin Booker to
hopefully come back in game five, that's maybe it's not ideal because you're probably
hoping to get some more rest before the second round, but that's like,
that's almost ideal at this point because you're missing an All NBA player. That's
what Devin Booker was the top five m MVP candidate for me. He was
keeping your offense afloat for much of game to early in Game two, he
hadn't scored in the third quarter when he went down, So that is what
you're probably hoping to do in this situation, this series that was already interesting
and infinitely more so, this is to close. Could you try again?
Shut up? SERI, this is to close with this. We both still
think the Pelicans are gonna lose, but I'm not shutting the door on it.
I definitely I'm not going to be as dismissive of them as I was
in our preview. Of the top five players in points per game and during
play on Wednesday Night, Jalen Broughts entires, Maxie and Jordan Pool are three,
four five respectively. Not a development I think many would have seen coming
of those three. Who is most impressed you during the postseason? Pool has
because Maxie Max Maxie is the number two. But to me, it's Pool's
ability to seamlessly blend with the Golden State machine in a way that elevates it,
because it feels like he's just learned so much from both Play Thompson and
Stephen Curry to the point that he can be a reasonable facsimile of either of
them on any given possession. So you see him employing ridiculous off ball movement
to generate these open looks and hit step back jumpers like Steph. You see
him knock down these deep catch and shoot threes like Clay, and it works
so well. And the ability to thrive in such different looks while still catering
to these bigger names stars and upping his defensive chops in the process has been
ridiculous. And that's not to take anything away from Maxio. I think is
just like a hair behind. And then Brunson has been fantastic as well.
But I think I think the answer is cool for me. Tyree's Matt.
Yeah, I think it's pool for me too, because of you already mentioned
the mechanisms through which he's traveling to as we're I'm actually not going to talk
about that because that will date the podcast. Well, actually, it looks
like you're about to go down three. Oh, that won't date the podcast.
That's a different discussion to have. But I agree with you that is
probably Pool with Brunson. It's almost not fair, but he's just been doing
so much of this all season, and a lot of it has been all
right. If you weren't cooking this Jazz defense right now, they're probably being
still the Jazz defense. There's been one not on the perimeter or not on
rotations. I should say it might be a better way of framing that.
Still, I will say for Brunson, well, to wrap it up on
Pool, he has made nineteen shots through the first two games. One of
them has come inside the restricted area one and finishing is like part of the
appeal with him. I'm just it impresses me more. Oh so you are
this reliant on the perimeter I think because of the personnel that's available now he
has an effective field goal percentage of eighty eight point two right now outside of
twenty four feet two games. But that's still that's going to melt your mind.
Tyrese Maxie, I think is probably like one of the five fastest players
in the league. Maybe that's hyperbole, after watching him in the series,
it does help, Like the caliber of players he gets to play beside,
That's what we probably why Brunson deserves so much credit is like he is the
one A or one B at this point with Spencer did White for Dallas's offense
without Luca. But on the flip side, he's getting opportunities that the other
guys aren't because he is the one A and one B for them. That's
do you think that either of these two other players can be the one A
one be in a playoff series. I guess the defense with Jordan Pool,
that's you know, I think that Maxie is probably the best candidate to be
that unquestioned leader of an offense. Pool does feel like he fits in better
as either a co star or a secondary star because there isn't that constant creation
to his game. But I think that the all around package is still more
impressive. Is that fair? That's fair? I just I mean Brunson has
done like his in between game has been monstrous against Utah. He's even hit
a couple of step back jumpers already. In this quote, to quote some
guy from before we started, ri he's gonna get put aid. Yeah,
that's for Jalen Brunson. I'm gonna say eighteen million is I'm gonna set the
over under at for it. That is incredible in a market where not many
teams have that much. So maybe he'll be assigned in trade. De Troy's
floating around there with money to spend, so and look, he might I
would be against if I can do, if I was a team, just
I want players to get paid, but I don't think he's on that level
of player long term. But He's making a very difficult case against anything that
I could say against it. And if if Luca doesn't play this series,
or if Luca returns in Game five and the Maps are up three to one,
because Jalen Brunson is playing like just out of his mind spectacular, I
mean, he'll definitely secure the bag in that vein. Tyres Maxie, though,
has been just through and through for Philly, And someone had said this,
I can't remember who it was. They said that the Ben simmonsaga was
almost a blessing in disguise for Philly because they never would have tapped into this
version of Tyrese Maxie if it never happened. And I thought about that,
and I'm like, you're right, because he never would have even had a
chance to be this level of number three if James Harden wasn't there, like
the offense would have looked different. Maybe the Sixers had bigger plans for him.
So and then just getting that time as the Sixers primary point guard was
absolutely huge for him. He has yet to miss a shot in the restricted
area against the Raptors as we're recording this. That is absolutely incredible. And
if he's going to be playing like this, And I know Tobias Harris had
an off game in game three, but if you have Maxie and Harris is
your secondary weapons like really going off. And you can say what you want
about James Harden in the aggregate of this series, the floor balance still changes
for Philly in a great way when he has the ball because of how much
attention he is still commanding. And if you have MAXI always capitalizing on that
with his speed and his shooting. And then Harris even every other game of
Tobias Harris being the quick decision maker that he's buying large band, the efficient
quick decision maker. Philly went from I said they could come out of the
East after the hardened trade to me being basically out on them too. Now
I'm like, well, we give a shout out to James Harton too for
just altering his play style in a way that's beneficial, because it is it's
tough for guys who are used to competing for scoring crowns and taking all of
the shots could drastically alter the way they play and become a pass first,
past second guy. He's a damn good facilitator and he has embraced that role
and it's elevating this offense, and kudos to him for being willing to do
that on this stage with a new team when he's had playoff flop after playoff
flop in the past. That is not an easy thing to do, either
in terms of actually playing basketball or embracing it mentally, and he's done it
in a way that is benefiting Philadelphia. I agree with you. I the
only thing in to add I'm not trying to be an asshole here. How
much of that is he can't be the James Hart that you're referencing because he
there have been moments and how many players have been faced with that situation and
I've tried to push through it anyway to the detriment of their own team.
And I do think Toronto and I didn't see a good chunk of the second
half of Game three because we decided the podcast, but they've made life difficult
on him, And yeah, I mean, this is this is a weird
comparison to make, but like, one of the reasons that I was so
impressed with the totality of Vince Carter's career is that he, better than almost
anyone I've ever seen, embraced the decline from superstardom to stardom to role player
status in a way that he consistently elevated his teams even when it was clear
that he was no longer even close to the player that he was in his
prime. We're not seeing a drop off of that magnitude for James Harden yet,
but it's still a difficult thing to embrace seamlessly. And there has been
no like long terms step back period pun intended, because it's James Harden.
He has just gone from being the scoring superstar who racks up triple doubles to
this new pass first player like that, and it's working. That's hard to
do. The final thing I wanted to get to here in relation to the
younger guys, how has Jordan Pools upper trajectory kind of changed how the Warriors
look at their attempts to balance the future and the present at the same time,
Because coming in, I think there would have been fans analysts that said,
if they do lose in the second round, because they're not going to
lose in the first round, we know that's not going to happen at this
point, there would be a push or a call for them, maybe even
anything less than championship, there'll be a call, Oh, you have to
start cashing in some of your younger chips to go out and get a more
established player. I'm just marketing back to the flashes we saw from Jonathan Cominga
during the regular season. Now Pool started making this jump, and it feels
like I would I would, we would have said. I think both of
us said long ago that the Warriors were the biggest threat at peak peak.
Horrors are the biggest threat to the Suns in the West, even if the
season doesn't end in a championship. I probably would have before the playoffs started,
said the front office is going to push back against the idea that they
need to go out and make a consolidation trade because they're so one. They
have those legacy titles in their bad already two. They do seem just so
confident in their ability to blend rebuilding with competing. But now there's like a
certain legitimacy to it that it didn't have before, where he has to contacular
all season, but the stage on which he's doing it, the way that
the lineup has killed, which we need a name for it, I think,
was Rory Brazil on Twitter. I saw it called the title wave.
I thought that was good. I've seen some like really undreaded ones like fast
five or something. Wasn't good five for your funeral if we're willing to extend
the world account on a little bit. But I feel like this has sort
of unless things just turn and go with a completely wrong direction from here.
There's a level of vindication here for the Warriors front office, because it turns
out that if they have their best players available, they can in fact build
for the future without torpedoing or really even sacrificing the president I would expect almost
now, in large part because of Pool, but also because of Kamanga.
Maybe they still have a ton of faith in Moses Moody and James Wiseman.
For all I know, Wiman will play in twenty twenty seven. It'll be
for the Warriors, though probably not. But no matter how, no matter,
no mean, no matter how this season ends. Now it feels like
the Warriors are just going to keep along this route, and they almost feel
like they have every justification to do so. Maybe there is something to that
light Year's thing after all. Jordan Pool Man I late. I was late
on the Jordan Pool badwagon. All four we should start an appreciation thread.
We should. We'll get on that. This was great, shorter than normal,
not as short as we anticipated. We hope you enjoyed bouncing around.
As I mentioned on the last podcast, we're probably gonna get into some bigger
picture stuff throughout the playoffs as well, so we're not just constantly recapping games
or series and not aging our content very quickly. Please remember to rate and
review this podcast you've not done so already. If you haven't subscribed, this
is your first time listening to us, definitely do that. Follow us on
YouTube, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok where I post exclusives on
IG and TikTok. All the links are in our podcast description as well as
our discord. Join that pop in, have a great conversation. And if
you've done all those things, consider referring us to a friend and family member,
random person on the youth agender you know likes basketball Until next time You'll
move you at the shout out through the one the only semi finals bound inevitably
goat Frank Hiller teamm