Hey, everybody, welcome to coming out pods. It's been a minute.
Hi, Hello, how have you been pause for response. Great, it's
good to be back. I'm doing a queer root shout out today that I
know was close to Nicole's heart. Shout out to you if your queer root
is Lisa Bonet. Lisa Bonett, of course, first burst on the scene
with The Cosby Show, then God pretty much her own spin off. Yeah,
this is we're talking. We're talking mid eighties. Some of you are
way too young to remember these things, but Lisa Bonet is someone who I
say, she's Rachel Weissing, which is my term when somebody is getting even
more gorgeous with age. So yeah, no matter what age you are,
I'm certain Lisa Bonet is on your radar. And shout out to you if
you're a little bit older and she was perhaps a queer root. Y'all.
I am here today with Tahishia Timmans. Hello, Hi, Hello, how
are you? I am good? We've already been chatting a little bit.
It has been lovely to meet you. Tahishia works for herself and we are
leaving that vague and she has a whole bunch of like impressive titles and whatnot.
But we we're not We're not gonna name drop. We're not gonna humble
brag our way through this. If it comes up, it comes up.
But she is I could already tell a delightful human being. And I'm excited
to learn more about you. Thank you. I'm so embarrassed right now.
I'm embarrassed every time I do these intros. If it's any consolation, I've
done like three hundred episodes, and every time I start, I forget how
to talk. So it's you're in good company, Tayushia. How do you
identify for the folks at home? Yes, so I use she her pronouns,
and I identify as queer. And that's been a journey just to like
get to the queer right the queue because when I actually came out, uh,
there wasn't really a queue that was in use. Queer was a bad
word. And yes, so I'm on the queer. I'm I'm the queue.
And it has to do with really two things. I love all people,
and I'm sexually attracted to all people. You know, men, women,
non binary people, people. Uh, if you identify as a person,
I'm probably attracted to you, but then there's another flip to that.
I also sometimes have no sexual attraction to anyone or anything or like you know,
I'm very asexual leaning many times. So queer was the uh when when
queer started being acceptable for use, I was like, that is me because
it's always in flux. I feel like I'm always growing, changing and feeling
certain ways I looked at well, maybe I was CPO sexual, like maybe
I'm attracted to like knowledge or romance or now because I'm none of those things
other than I don't know what happens all of a sudden, I am just
like attracted to people, and I don't even have a type, though my
family would probably say, like, you have a type, but I really
don't because I keep ward to things like the visual, right and then the
internal absolutely. So, do you ever have the thing where you will meet
someone initially and not feel like it's like, oh, this person seems nice,
but there's no there's no like physical or romantic or sexual attraction. But
then at some point it's like a it's like a switch will flip based on
like maybe you've known them a certain length of time or something. This something
that I that has happened to me several times, and I've often wondered if
I might be on the DEMI spectrum. Like I feel like if I were
younger, I would maybe use that label, but at this point, I'm
like, I'm not in the market for anymore labels, but I wonder if
does that ring no? And so that was why DEMI didn't really resonate with
me, because it's either there and like, so an ex partner of mine
met them at a bar like and was asexual, had no sexual attraction to
anyone, and my best friend at the time was like, is this a
real thing for you? Because for a while you were just throwing your ass
everywhere right Like I was like I would walk up to people and be like,
I, we are going to do it tonight, but not use that
language. So when I when it just kind of like and it had nothing
to it wasn't lesbian bed death or like anything like that. No, these
things ebb and flow, yeah, yeah, yeah, And it was kind
of if you know, like in being in the community, the community is
often small, and so when you're shifty, when you shift like that,
people are just like your full of nonsense. Sometimes because I would be like
I'm just not attracted to anyone. I'm so sorry that you're attracted to me,
and maybe I'm not attracted to you and I'm not faking it or anything
like that. And so I had run into I met this new person and
I was like, holy wow, like all of my all of my lady
parts are tingling around you, like what is up with me? And I
said it to them. I was like, I have not been attracted to
anyone in like two years from a sexual perspective, and like I just want
to jump on you, and like this is like so new. So yeah,
and so we dated for a little bit and uh yeah. So for
me, queer really is this sort of umbrella for how I feel sexual attraction.
I relate to a lot of that, and I do think, for
the record, there are some people who are very sort of like even keel
their whole lives with their not only with their like libido, but with their
who they tend to be attracted to. And then there are many people who
that fluctuates and that can depend on any number. I mean, you know,
what's the we shed all of our skin cells or whatever it is every
seven hours. It's like yeah, and like hormones changed through as you get
older and stuff like that. So I think it is very common for people
to feel different levels of sexual attraction or who they're sexually attracted to. And
it's something that we don't talk about that much, especially within the queer community,
because that idea of something being a phase is so demonized because a lot
of us got told that, so we're afraid to acknowledge when our own attractions
change because we don't want to feed into that myth. And it's just like
it's a whole, it's a big mess. But I love hearing I love
you talking about that because I think that that is probably true for a lot
of us. I think that's natural. Yeah. I think also in today's
world where everything is so rushed and you're juggling so many things in your head,
the reality is sex is another thing, right, and like they can
be a complication and sometimes I wonder if that piece turns off to allow space
for other things. Oh my god, I really relate to that. Yeah,
And again I know that's not everybody. Like I have friends who are
very sexually forward people, so they could be like diffusing a bomb and if
someone walks behy in the background, they'll still be like, hey, what's
up. But like for me, like if if my focus is on something
else that the sexuals, like I'm not like craving another person in my life,
Like I'm not looking today at all right now. And I know a
lot of my friends like don't fully get that. And I'm just like,
I have so much other stuff that is preoccupying my thoughts that it is not
it's not part of the pyramid currently, Like I don't think that's permanent,
but right now, it's just not it's not there. It is Oh my
gosh, that is so so not acknowledged right Like that sounds like a little
shame with that. There is a little yeah, yeah, so much shame
with that. And and for those who have partners or people THEREWI who identify
as asexual, there's all this questioning of what do you mean? How can
you wi or two just friends? And I think there is a deeper relationship
that forms when you have a love that's a little bit stronger than a friendship
with a partner who recognizes that asexuality is a sexual orientation itself. Yes,
yes, And I do think that we push sex a lot as a way
to like, I don't know how to communicate well with you, so I'm
gonna fuck you to show you that I love you. But that's not love.
So and if you don't have the space for having a real, valid
and respectful relationship, I think we try to use sex as the tool,
right. Like there's so many movies where people get into trouble and they're like,
you're mad at me, but look how sexy I am. Don't you
want to have like, don't you want to get on me? And that's
for heterosexual and like queer movies. The sex is like the oh, well,
you know that person is in the community if they if they have sex
with you, versus just like why can't you just be flirty or have a
like you know, that is the proof, Like you know. I had
a really great conversation about this with a guest a couple months ago where we
were talking of about again that kind of like shame or guilt of like if
you are and we both identify I believe she identified as a lesbian. I
identify as lesbian, And we talked about that sort of where you feel like
you have to be like I'm so like, look, I'm like sexy,
and like open and like all this stuff. And even I did it when
you and I were talking off Mike shout out to an artist named Ivy J
and her song Strawberry Lotion, But I said you were like, it's a
sexy song, and I heard myself say, I was like, good,
we need more sexy songs. We have all these tender songs. We need
set. Like even I'm giving that narrative because I think with women we do
get sort of that thing lesbian bad death was mentioned, but like that thing
where it's like, oh, it's like so emotional, but like with gay
men, it's like all sex and like primal and animalistic. And right now
we're in this period where I feel like queer women are trying to be like
we also of sex, and look how sexy we are and how forward,
and you feel kind of guilty if you're not in that sort of in the
mix with all of that. And I did it myself, even though I
try to push against that narrative, so like, yeah, it's just God.
And I get jealous because I don't think heterosexual people don't worry about all
this shit so much like be representative of their people of Oh my goodness.
Okay, So so we've laid a good foundation. But let's we're gonna go
way way back in time. So where does everything start for you? What
do you consider your coming out story? Yeah, oh my gosh. Uh
So I kind of feel like I've been coming out, Like I'm a chronic
coming out person because when it comes to like my identity, like facets of
my identity, right, so, like I feel like I've gotten so used
to sharing intimate pieces of myself, you know, I've been coming out about
my sexual identity, my disability, Like I'm actually disabled. I was in
an accident and have some mobility issues being autistic late diagnosis, coming out about
that. I'm also Jewish. People don't know that or realize that. So
sometimes people will say stuff and I'll say, well, actually my mom is
Jewish or you know what are you? Well, my dad is black and
my mom is the Eastern European white identifying I guess visually. And so I
also grew up poor. People don't realize that you know all types of things.
But yeah, when it comes to my sexuality, I think I came
out twice when I was younger, and so to my friends, I was
like thirteen or fourteen, and this is like in the eighties. My parents
are hippies. They are like free love and so open. So I never
didn't I never had an experience of not knowing queer people in my life,
Like we were surrounded by activists and advocates and you know, people who were
fighting for the rights of others. So it didn't seem odd to me at
thirteen or fourteen and be like, you know what, I really I have
this crush on this person and I think I like them the way that you
know. And it happened to be a young girl, and so I came
out to my friends and they were just like whatever, so he should like
I think it was just another thing. Well, because I was a weird
kid too, Like I was the kid who was like, you know,
let me tell you all these facts about you know, all these different like
things that I was were special interests, yes, and then, but I
didn't tell my mom, Like looking back, I didn't tell my mom back
then because one like at thirteen or fourteen, I wasn't thinking sex, like
I was just thinking I just like I just want to be around you and
I want to call you girlfriend, like you know, we're calling each other
like like heterosexual couples were doing. And then when I was seventeen, I
came out to my mom and my mom had a reaction that I wasn't expecting
and she was terrified. She was terrified for me. She was frightened,
she was upset, and it was a completely different view of my mom than
I had up to that point. My mom was my light of like,
this is how you have to be in the world as someone advocating for people.
My mom was like on the front lines of AIDS, activism and homelessness
in the eighties, so she was always fighting for something. So when she
said to me and her and I have talked about this before, so I
don't have an issue sharing this. She said to me in that moment,
why would you want or choose to be gay bi sex? What are you
lesbian when you're already black as a woman. Yeah, And when I say,
my heart felt crushed because two things happened, I thought, Wow,
she thinks actually being queer or being gay is a bad thing, And this
is not something I had seen because my mom had gay friends. Her best
friend was a lesbian, And I'm thinking, Wow, she doesn't think they
should actually be doing that. And I also realized my mom didn't really think
that it was a good thing to be black or a woman in our world,
like you can't change that people will see you as black and that you
present as a woman, and we didn't say present back then. Sure,
but she was terrified of like who will harm you? And I had no
compassion for her, like with that, And one thing I will say I
wish I had done differently back then was had a little bit compassion. But
I was seventeen so recognized, oh that's a bad yes, So I'll recognize
that at seventeen, I probably wasn't very forgiving. Those seventeen year olds today
are super smart and they are super aware of who they are internally, So
at seventeen, back then, I wasn't forgiving. And I was very angry
at her. And you know, she said to me, don't tell your
dad because your dad will be so upset and he'll be disappointed. And so
I didn't tell my dad, and then organically my dad just kind of knew
because like my mom, you know, she it wasn't like she was like,
you know, you can't be gay here or anything that that it was
just the disappointment that the and the fear that she had. Yeah, yeah,
and so and I. When I finally had a conversation with my dad
about it, he was like, well, why would I care? And
then he said something. He was like, you know, who hasn't slept
with someone who is the same as then I have? And that was something
I didn't know. And so my dad like bolstered me up, like what's
the deal, what's the big deal here? Like people back then, he
was saying stuff like, hey, sometimes we love who we love him,
We're attracted to who we are attracted to, And it was like nothing for
him. My mom was actually the one who was more worried. But my
dad also does not have a good societal sense, so he was just like
who cares like, but my dad was always out there by kind of who
cares about everything? So I love both my parents. They're amazing. But
my mom was probably more into the social the society piece and influenced by oh
oh yeah, it sounds like, yeah, that fear that parents have comes
out in a way that I don't think they realize how damaging that is for
us. Oh my gosh, I'm personal. That feels and like, yes,
it comes from a place of love and concern, but it's still a
rejection, like it's just like, oh god, yeah, that's it's tough.
Well and wildly enough. When my own child came out to me at
a young age, my first response which I look and I had talked to
my mom and I said, I slapped my hand for this, I said,
well, how do you know? And then like reflecting after it came
out my mouth, it was so like automatic because I was really curious as
someone who didn't really think, like, you know, I automatically went to
sex right when they came out to me, and I was like, well,
you seem too young to be bank good sex right, like instead of
well, I would never ask a heterosexual person, how do you know you're
here? And so and it's not even about sex if you really think about
it, it's about attraction, and so I like, really, you know,
I it's like, oh my gosh, I am a queer person,
like asking another person like what And it was it was that was when I
grew compassion for my mom. I was like, this is how someone who
could seem so awake and aware could misstep. So this is the thing though,
like and I've had this conversation with so many guests who feel guilty.
They'll be like, I grew up in the most like liberal household, and
I don't know why I was afraid to come out, and when I finally
did, my parents were like amazing about it, and I don't know.
And it's like, you can have your own individual experience. Your family can
be amazing. But we're not growing up in biospheres like we are or biodomes.
Rather, we are in society, and we absorb, especially when we're
younger, this messaging of like this is wrong and be scared of this,
and this is different, and this is gonna make your life harder. And
so it's like, yeah, there's no amount of familial or like your inner
circle acceptance that is going to block out the general kind of global consensus that
this is like different and something to be concerned about. So yes, And
you know, I look at the different reactions for my mom and my dad,
and sometimes I wonder if it is also the burden of raising children that
mothers tend to get saddled with. So I'm sure, you know, I
want to say it's the gentleman who used to be on the Daily Show.
He has a stand up and he talks about how like dads, like dads
will run away and preserve themselves, but like moms like throw themselves on the
fire. So because like you know, and he has a little skit about
that, and it's really true. Because I felt like, you feel so
invested in I can understand why my mom felt like she had a bigger steak.
She was probably like I went through like twenty seven hours of labor with
you, Like, no one's getting harm you my product I've put out there
with so much attention and love. So and my dad was just like,
eh, you know you love who you love. Good luck, You're you're
an adult now, like why do I care? So and my mom to
this day is still like, how's my baby? Like yeah, and my
Dad's like she's not a baby. So and I'm turning fifty one. So
yeah, it's so sticky. The parents stuff. Never oh god, let's
not get into parents stuff that could be its own up. Yeah, she
said, as she was currently dealing with parents stuff in her own life.
So now in terms of so you come out to your friends at like thirteen
and they're like very but for you, it sounds like first awareness crushes were
same sex, but were you also then having quote unquote more mainstream crushes on
God? Like, I'm always curious for folks who have attraction to multiple people
how that sort of maps out, because if you're just if if you're you're
a little gay kid and you're like freaking out, but you kind of like
know what's You're like, oh no, uh oh. But if you're having
attraction to multiple people, what do you what do you do with that?
You know what I mean, like, do you I don't know if I'm
making sense, No, you are. And so I am probably not a
great example of this because I do feel like my attractions are pretty equal.
So I had I had a boyfriend in high school. I also had a
fake girlfriend in high school because back then, so you figure, it's like
nineteen ninety she was my best friend, and I also used to let people
believe she was my girlfriend when they would be like, oh, you're a
lesbian and you're always hanging around with this person, and I wouldn't deny it
and she and she came up to me actually at one point in high school
because I was a year ahead of her, and she said, can you
stop like like not denying that we're a couple. Can you like just say
we're best friends, like because you know, I love you and we've and
like, you know, there was not a sexual attraction there. I'm still
really good friends with her. And I realized the harm I was doing because
I was so okay with it and so supported that, whereas like I it
wasn't that I you know, I wasn't outing her or anything. I just
was just like, you know, oh yeah, yes, we are close,
and I just didn't deny it or dating. She's like, you're leaving,
sir? Did I have to stay here and deal with homophobia and all
of this? And I just sort of had easy ignorance to it, And
so it was pretty much like an equal sort of attraction. I will say
from an emotional connection piece, I did once, or at first, I
used to lean into did I have stronger emotional connections with women or women identifying
folk? And I thought that was true, But it's not necessarily true.
As I've gotten older, I've seen that some of the stereotypes out there are
that men are not as emotional, that men are not caregivers, and they
are and they can be. And it has to do with socialization and will
you allow them to have that space even like when I said Dad's Russian,
I'm sure if the house was on fire, my dad would rush in.
But you know, I think it's some of that piece. And so if
I were to say I was like demisexual or sapio sexual, like in any
of those areas, it would be I do like people that have the access
to their emotion because when I've been attracted to actually not when i've but the
people i'm attracted to tend to be you know, maybe a little like I'm
going to access my emotions and I meditate or like, you know, I'm
into the I know about diversity in equity and inclusion, and I don't have
to teach them anything. Yeah. Yeah, that said, I do have
an ex who is a raging Republican. Wow the time two of them,
so, oh my goodness, at the time that did y'all were dating or
yeah, So I'm thinking I have an ex husband who's a Republican, and
I have a ex girlfriend who is Republican and also in the and also a
police officer. So yes, So which is interesting because like, how did
I compartmentalize all of those pieces and that's what I was wondering if at the
time. Yeah, no, I mean, wow, that's so interesting.
That's really interesting. Oh my god, I feel like I want to know
more about that. But we'll see if we'll see it becomes up organically,
because I don't want to jump ahead. But so I think for a lot
of people who are queer or bisexual, tand sexual, they kind of naturally
in most cases will be dating the opposite sex first because that is easier or
not. I'm so sorry. I don't mean easier like you took the easy
route. I mean that's more accessible to you. Like that is what is
presenting itself to you, Like guys are going to ask you out in school
as opposed to like in the eighties, girls aren't going to be as readily
asking girls out. So if you are genuinely attracted to guys as well,
it feels like that is something that's gonna happen first, and then there's good
as that sort of Am I in the ballpark of that, Yeah, I
think you're right with that. The only thing that probably worked against me was
I went to a very white high school, and I think that that was
why I was I was never asked out in high school. I like,
I my entire like twenties thirties, I was teens. I was like,
I must not be attractive to like men because I went to a very white
high school. We grew up, so my parents moved when I was in
the eighth grade to a richer area. We moved out of Patterson, New
Jersey, to Clifton, which is was that was back then called the Great
White Elephant because it was maybe white and so it was one of maybe my
freshman year. I think they were like, I could count on one hand
how many other people of color period were in the school I went to go
in Westport, Connecticut. So I am on, yeah, I feel like,
yep, yep, yep, yep. So I think even if I
had wanted to date a white boy back then or what into or I said,
white boy, but that's mainly what was there. Even if I wanted
to data guy, I don't think that it would have been cool for them
to date me. Though I did date a guy in high school. He
was actually younger than me and my neighbor and that was nat like. We
didn't meet in high school. I knew Hi from the day. Oh okay,
yeah, because you had mentioned having a boyfriend, so that was more
a off campus connection. Yes, okay, I guess, okay, that
makes more sense. Yeah, so he he like they say, once you
know someone, then you know it's slightly different. He didn't see me as
black, he didn't see me as like bisexual, he didn't see any of
that. He was just like, this is this neighborhood kid who I know
from like the neighborhood. So yeah, girl next door. Yeah, he
used to sneak over when my like because I had a room above like my
parents porch, and so yeah, I had a separate entrance, so he
would sneak over my senior year, we get up to no good. This
is Dawson's Creek. This is literal Dawson's Creek. I love this. Okay,
okay, this is also tracking more. It feels like on why your
mom maybe had that reaction if you're in this like wealthy white neighborhood, Like,
oh, we weren't wealthy. We lived we were like the last block,
right. Someone came to the neighborhood and they were like, oh,
you live on the bad side, and then oh that makes sense, and
I was like, back then, I wouldn't have seen it as a microaggression.
But now I look back and I'm like, oh, you're terrible.
That's maybe just an aggression. Aggression think of that. But no, sorry,
I didn't mean your family, but I mean, like, if that's
you're surroundings, like, and then that instinct of your mom to not add
another layer of quote unquote difference onto already having to like be swimming upstream with
some of that, and again, not like not to justify it, but
just to like where she's coming from in terms of like, oh, fear
one hundred percent. And now as I've gotten older and I realize all the
things at play when we talk about systemic oppression and you know how capitalism and
finances plays into that poverty, all those layers, I have more compassion for
her. And when you have kids, I think you also have a little
bit more compassion because I do sort of look at my two kids and I'm
like, a lot of effort went into you don't do anything like don't get
hurt, Like I don't want to see that. Yeah, you incimated those
for almost a year, you know, like, don't fuck up that body.
I made exactly make good choices, which should be for you. But
obviously I'm putting myself on you, like make good choices that preserve you.
I think that's a good I think, yeah, I think that's a very
common parental line of reasoning. So when when ish did you start also dating
women or people who are non binary people identified as women, And was that
something that you just like when you were younger that you always sort of assumed
what happened because you had these attractions or once or did you just think like,
well, I'm also attracted to men, so I'm probably just gonna end
up dating men because that's what society, This is what I always want.
I always sound like I'm like Diane Fosse when I talk to non lesbians,
because I'm like, now, if you are also attracted to men, what
is that Like? It's just so so for myself. I didn't really think
about it because honestly, I didn't ever think I would get married. I
thought I would one day be a parent, but for very selfish reasons,
like I was like, I think I could do this better than my folks
did, and like, you know, that's one of the reasons why some
people have kids, and that's not the greatest reason they have kids. But
I always felt like I was very caring, so I saw that as something
in the future or I started. I can think of probably when I was
I wasn't in college, and I just think it was because I wasn't dating
anybody after high school. I didn't have like I had. I had a
boyfriend for a little bit, but he wasn't actually in the US. He
was over at desert store, like he was a marine. And he was
also someone from the neighborhood back when I lived in Patterson in the eighth grade,
like my mom, Yes, my mom ran into him and she was
like, I ran into this friend of yours from when you were in grammar
school. You guys should hang out. He's gonna be leaving to go to
the to basic training. So I ended up hanging out with him. I
had a crush on him in the seventh grade and like I'm like, oh
my gosh, like he's so cute, sto like. And so he was
my first after high school boyfriend and we had a long distance relationship. And
I'm sorry to say, Ralph, I cheated on you back then, like
but it was like one night stand, so don't worry about it. It
was like making out with girls, and like, I think I slept with
a couple of guys, but I didn't actually sleep with a woman or have
sex with a woman until it's probably twenty twenty or twenty one. I had
a girlfriend before this person, but she was not out. She was oh
my gosh, wow. She was like maybe fifteen twenty years older than me,
and she was it out to her family and wow, yeah okay,
and like interesting, yeah, and so like, we didn't really do much
stuff until the best friend who I who had back in high school and who
was like, hey, who stops, you know, stop pretending we're girlfriends.
We were at a diner and there was this beautiful girl who came in
and I was like, oh my gosh, I love her, like her
so much. And my best friend was so much braver than me in all
things. She was like, yeah, let's go and talk to her.
And the girl said she wasn't interested in Looking back, I realized she wasn't
interested in me. She was probably interested in my friend. But she was
like, oh, I go to Henrietta Hudson's in New York. Yeah,
And she's like, I'm usually there these days, and I bagged my best
friend to go with me. She went with me. The girl wasn't there
on the day we went, deep disappointment for me. But there was another
girl I met who happened to be my very first girlfriend who I lived with
Wow, yes, who ended up taking me to where I actually live right
now. I met her and did I know nothing about like queer protocol,
lesbian vertical any of that stuff. Don't even think she could possibly be on
a date with someone. I've got my friend who's like, send her a
dree And I'm like, oh, yeah, because you know, I'm underage.
But back in New York, back then, like you know, New
York didn't care. Yeah, going, So I'm doing this like very like
you know, heteronormative. I'm gonna send a lady a drink type of thing,
and I send her a drink and we actually we sent them both drinks
and say we go over there and start talking to her and like and we
just connect and kick it off from hit it off from then, of course,
she gets a little she gets a little backlash from the girl, who
I learned later they were on a date, because I was like, why
does your friend always hate me? And she was like, well, like
remember, like you know, like that was actually a date, and so
I'm a better queer person now, I'm like, oh, two people together
are intimately talking. I'm probably not gonna I'm not gonna be like, hey,
like, yes, you you poached her. Essentially, I did knowing
it that it was on her because you didn't know, and she did know
and she went for it. So that's more. Well, you know what
she said to me, She said, well, I wasn't sure it was
a date because they worked together. That's the most queer statement of all times.
Yeah, like is it is it? Is it drinks or is it
drinks? Yeah? I mean this is our community. We know we have
an issue with this. So let's all just sort of put it out there
clearly concisely. Let's we pride ourselves on her communication skills. Let's put those
to use. Yes, absolutely, on the person I'm dating. Now.
She's very clear with you know that you live together, right, you're pretty
sure you're dating. No, we don't live together. We are, we're
just dating. We're just dating. We do not live together. I've lived
with people in the past, but I don't live with the current person.
And I thought that they were so brave in they came up to me and
were like is this seat taken? And I was like classic, and I
was like, nah, you could sit here. And then I proceeded to
ignore them completely because I thought they just wanted to sit, and then they
kept talking to me and then they were like, you know, I'm trying
to connect here. There it is, Oh okay, that's what. Yes,
Yes, they did everything right. It's like you don't have to come
out of the gate and be like I thought you were hot, so I
wanted to sit next you. That's a little maybe coming on strong, but
it's perfect to be like is this seed taken? And then like oh they're
not getting this. Now I'm going to be clear, but like say,
I'm trying to connect with you. Is that's the A plus A plus.
I really like how that went down. Yes, she gets an A plus
for all days. That's great. So, okay, this woman who you
read at Henrietta Hudson's that is the first relationship that's like you you consider like
I am in a relationship. I'm in it. It's sexual like it's not
just like oh I'm like I'm crushing on you, Like it's a it's a
relationship that I'm in. I ended up living with her moving uh like and
really I have to say that person, Okay, the first person who breaks
your heart, who is the safe sex with you, is like someone you
remember forever. And I remember we broke up and I just thought I could
not go on and I consciously did not want to date a woman again because
I felt like it was so and that is probably where the myth in my
mind of emotional connection came from. I was like, I'm not going to
feel like that again, and I was young. I don't want to feel
like that again. I think I'll just date guys because I felt like there
was some distance there. But I also was younger when I dated guys,
and I didn't date a lot of guys. I think I dated like three
guys before I dated her. And I've actually, over time dated more women
at this point or non binary people or transgender people than men. That doesn't
mean I don't date men though, but like I remember just feeling like devastated,
like and it was around the fact that so we break up, like
I want to say, like middle of the nineties, so mid nineties,
we break up after being together for five years, which is a decent not
forever, Like I know, there's a lot to be a doubt there who
have been together since they were eating. Yeah, but for a first relationship
and when you're young, like five years, that is an eternity. It
felt like an eternity I wanted and what I wanted where we started to part
ways. I wanted to plan for a future that had too many Do you
remember the term breeder for heterosexual people? Still use breeder because it makes me
laugh and it pisses them off so much. I am guilty of still using
breeder. So I'm probably twenty four when I break up. When we break
up, and I all of a sudden, I don't know why at twenty
three, twenty two, which was older than my my mom had me.
My mom was very young when she had me. I start thinking about,
like what's a little person and how much I would love to have a little
person. And I start talking about this with her and she's like, we're
not like and that was her statement. She's like, we don't. You
don't want those things that leaning into like breeder mentality and I and I'm just
like, like, I put I guess if I you know, and so
we do end up like not being together. And that was pretty really the
reason, like I wanted all the things that quote were those are only for
heterosexual breeder people, like we can't have those things. We're fun, we're
queer, like we're out here just having fun. And I didn't. I
went to the house and I went to like like old people things, and
I was we were ahead of your time because now that's the lesbian stereotype is
like baby, how like domest like that is so in. That feels like
such an early nineties problem to have because now it's all about the getting married
and having babies, and like every storyline on TV is like these lesbians are
trying to have a baby. Like it's just like it's done so turn since
the early nineties when it was like breaking all of those those norms. It's
really interesting. Yeah, that was not something that you did. And I
felt very much like why am I the only And I was thank goodness.
I mean I did end up having kids, obviously, but thank goodness that
like I didn't have a kid at twenty three. I had a kid at
twenty five, not that much later, But why, I why? I
felt such a longing for that, I don't know, and it felt very
like I don't even know what was going. It was definitely hormone driven because
like I because that's like your fertile time, right, like in your early
twenties, like they say, like early twenties to thirties is when like Shiper's
fertile and it's the safest and all those things. So something kicked in and
I was like, oh, I want a baby, like and she was
like no. And you know, from the sense of freedom and being able
to and like capital that's disposable, children take that away very quickly. Oh
yeah, that's the best way to lose your freedom. I believe this is
having a two mile yes, but it definitely was in high uh, Like
I was in high gear with that, and I you know, it probably
would not have been the thing for us to do because there were less resources,
but I definitely I wanted and like, in all honesty, if we
could have made a baby together, I was like, I want to have
a baby with you, with your eyes and like all this, like you
know, which is like makes me a little but sad that we can't.
What we could do that designer babies, right, I know A couple that
kind of like matched up who their donor was. So we do have that
option now, but back then it wasn't. And it was a what do
they call that? Some of those things that are irreconcilable differences, and so
that's what that was. But it felt painful, and I was like,
I'm only going to date guys moving forward because they won't hard me Like this
not true either, not true at all. But also was your desire to
like I want to have a baby? Was that also driving you more towards
day and guys? Or was that sort of like put on the shelf because
of the heartbreak and you were like, okay, I'm not I think it
probably was a little piece of it because like full transparency, the person who
moved me out of the apartment is the person I have my kids with,
so sure it must have been in there as a driver. So yeah,
and you know, and it wasn't just the like I I have to say,
this is my kid's dad, and like I did love him, I
did, ye, not the same way, but I was definitely sexually attracted
to him, which for me is a big piece, right, So like
having some asexuality in there, But what was interesting was when when we started
to break up years later, one of the things that came out and counseling
was he was like, I never thought that you actually liked me as a
man like. He's like, I was always waiting for you to be like,
I met a woman and I'm gonna leave or I'm going back where I
came from, because I'd come from that community. He said, I never
felt like you were emotionally connected to me, like I always felt like,
you know, it was I wasn't like the person that you wanted to be
with, And he said, and I always feared that you would leave me,
so which surprised me. Surprised me because my kids, like I like,
we were so open about my sexuality. I did not to remember there's
no cue then I identified as bisexual. His family that like I my kids
knew that I had been with a woman like and so I think that probably
added to so you're thinking it's in like the back then, there wasn't a
lot of support for partners of people who like may be have some some blocks
or attraction to the same sex. And so I'm sure that probably was scary
and it probably was a little terrifying for him, like what he was like
there, that would be something I can't offer for you. I can't offer
that community like a woman would, and so you know, it was it
was interesting to go through that experience with him and realize like the fear on
both sides, right, Like lesbians when they date bisexuals or queer people say
they date other people will sometimes say, well, you know you're you can't
trust this group, But then also eat men feel a similar way. Sometimes
that's so interesting. I give him credit though, for being that open and
vulnerable about it, because I do think that the stereotype is like more I
mean, God, the thing of lesbians and their fear with bisexual women is
We've talked to me and my former co hosts. I've talked about this so
much on the podcast because I as lesbian who dates mostly bisexual women, I
just think, like, for Fox's sake, can we put that aside?
Like can we stop with that? But that is the stereotype with the fear,
And then I feel like the stereotype for men dating bisexual women is very
ego driven and like I'm not worried at all, Like now that she's with
me, like she's got all this, she's never gonna So I appreciate a
man actually speaking to that fear because I don't feel like we hear that very
often the other way around. So, yeah, he feels very evolved in
that sense of like yeah, yeah, And I have to say I think
he was very evolved in that sense. He's very aware of like his emotions
in that sense. And it was like it was an AHA moment to me
because I think men sometimes get this portrayal. Heterosexual men are portrayed as like
not being aware and not being able to be harmed, and men are.
They are just as emotional vulnerable creatures as we are, and we don't embrace
that and allow them that. Like I listen to my son who's eighteen,
and he'll talk about like his friends and his friends. So we'll talk with
each other, and I'm like, wow, they're to evolved. They're talking
emotions, they're talking supports, and like he calls me into things, like
calls me out when I'm being like not, you know the greatest emotionally,
And I just I love that we are allowing men to do this, yeah,
because their mental health needs it, Like right, like if you suppresse
your emotions, you're just you're you're harming half of the population by saying like,
oh, be strong. And my son was the one he said to
me, he said, you know, men have to be strong. They
like, it's not the barbies field. But I remember he pointed out to
me, like how come there's no fat models on the target wall when he
was little, or like why do sport people? Yeah, he was like
all the men are fit and there were women who were, you know,
because we were getting into like body awareness then, and like he was like,
how come the women have different shapes, but all the men are very
fit, and so we put a lot on guys and we think that they
don't feel similar ways. And being the mom of a son helped me to
realize that because I always just thought I have a brother who's very emotional and
I should have known that. But and then even it's saying who's very emotional
right, like is almost like a microaggression, like, oh, you're going
against the norm by being emotional, Like we're just people with emotions. Yes,
I know. Well we're used to that being levied as an insult against
us as women, so we feel what we say to somebody else like that's
probably an insult, right, because whenever someone says to me like, well,
you're really emotional, it's like you immediately are like defensive a pathy.
No I'm not, oh god, so but no, you had mentioned thinking
that you were never going to get married, did you? Were you married
to the to the guy who was then you did? Okay, oh my
gosh, in the most wild way. We flew to so I only we
worked together when I worked at a bookstore briefly, and we worked together,
and he helped move me out of my place that I lived with her because
he had a car that was big enough to accommodate the things I had to
move. He was a coworker who had a truck, and we hung out.
We like and and we had been sexually into each other what up dating.
I wouldn't even call it dating. I would just call it like two
weeks of chronic sex, right, And then we decided we would get married,
and we flew to love because we're wild and such a lesbian story though
he's a lesbian, Yes, he immediately lesbian. This is astounding. The
only difference is, you know, are you whole with man? And so?
Oh yeah, run off the Vegas. We get married. He's in
a totally different socioeconomic background for me too. His parents are like, yeah,
they they have like they belong to a country club and they have a
boat, and like he is a Republican now. When I knew him,
he was an NPR listener, like played in a hardcore band, like Okay
Bury Aware bookstore. Yeah, I got it. I think money makes I
hate to say this. The more money you have, yeah, and the
older you get, the more you worry about the material things you have to
lose. And I think the Republicans found a space in the eighties and eighties,
nineties and two thousands. I don't know how fiscally aware they are now,
but they pushed that you will say fiscally if you go with us,
where the Democrats weren't really I know this isn't a political discussion, but they
weren't that great at that. So I think coming from a Republican family and
being the outlier, that the kids were the outliers, it was easy to
go back to that once you started to advance in career and you earn more
things you start. Yes, so I am not a Republican just so everybody
out there. No, I felt that was quite clear. Yeah, just
in the way. Yeah wow, Okay, So post divorce, what what
was your take in general on like women's men dating at all? Like you're
raising kids, now that's a whole another like what yeah, well, you
know, so as a single mom raising kids. I was also getting a
master's back then, and so like I didn't like, remember, I don't
know if we talked a little bit about like when you have like a space
in your brain for things, I didn't even have a space in my brain
for like oh for sure. And so it was like convenience people that I
ran into. Okay, So I dated another nurse who happened to be a
guy. That was the first person I dated, And I probably would not
have been dating if we weren't like like they what did they say? College
and work are the places that people meet partners and if you don't, if
you don't meet anyone there, like maybe you're not going to meet anyone.
So it dated a coworker for a little bit. Realized that as he was
getting more interested in like, let's like move in together, I didn't want
that, like I didn't want to go back to ever like kind of being
like that with someone and then dated. So my car got broken into.
I'd broken up with this person. My car got broken into, and the
officer who came out happened to be a woman. This is the this is
the Oh my god, yes, yes, so the officer who happened to
come out happened to be a woman, and like her energy was just like
I was, like I hadn't really run into police that often, and like
that was my re entry back into the queer community because they were imashed in
the LGBTQ community. Started going back and in fact, I'd been in Philly,
like near Philly, the Philly area in South Jersey for years and just
didn't go out in Philly because I went out in New York when I was
at the height of like hanging out and going to bars. And so now
I'm rediscovering places with them, and I just I don't think I dated,
I date any guys after that. No, I think I've dated guys like
after that. But yeah, so that was sort of like the like,
oh, go back into the community. Yeah. So and there you're coming
out as a mom, right, like, oh, sure, that's a
whole another coming out, yes, because you know that that is a piece
that I learned that they coming out as a mom. Like, there's many
people who don't like to date parents, right and then you're like a large
section that doesn't like to date or back then didn't like to date parents.
Because sure, I think there's this only focus that happens sometimes with women and
kids are like there. I don't want to say they're a time suck gonna
come first, though, yes, I mean they're gonna come first. I
should come first. Yeah, So, oh wow, you have had to
do a ton of coming outs and different Yeah. Yeah, well, because
I think people assume when you are, I'm like to and depending on how
I'm showing up, sometimes I'm a little more feminine presenting, sometimes you're masculine
presenting. I think there's an assumption if you're in a queer bar or a
gay bar, like, you might not have kids, right like, and
that lesbian is the only identifier for women. You could be bisexual, you
could be queer like. So there's a lot of coming out that happens on
the other letters. So yeah, oh well that I mean, it never,
it never ends, it never yeah. Yeah, and do you want
to talk at all? I mean this is adjacent, but do you want
to talk at all about You mentioned the late diagnosis, the autism diagnosis later
in life. Yeah, because that's I mean, again, that's potentially a
coming out, Like is that we also totally don't have to talk about it
at all. But I'm just thinking about when you know, just saying all
of the different or you'd mentioned disability, which can be a coming out,
but this is all yeah, and we don't have to talk about any of
this. I just want to give you the opportunity if that. Yeah,
so I was a late diagnosis. I want to say it's been five or
six years now, but it was always there, Like it was probably some
of the motivators between the fluidity and my sexual identity, some of the ways
I think about things. And I will say that in workspaces, the idea
that people can be autistic and function and you know, like also have emotions.
I think there's this myth that autistic people are not empathetic. I'm probably
overly empathetic. That's the other side of it, which we don't talk about
enough. Like autistics can be very empathetic and overly emotional, and so I
would find myself like cheering up or like wanting to get involved in ways that
probably neurotypical people don't. And so that was a coming out. You know,
there was a time when neurodiversity was not was seen as something to hold
you back. I remember there was a nurse who had been very transparent when
she first got hired with struggling with ADHD and there and I was at a
leadership level at that point, and people kept saying like, ugh, I
don't know if this person is going to be able to work here because you
know, what if like ADHD that like you know, and there's so many
people with ADHD now oh my yes, and somebody undiagnosed like we it's just
and it's so like the idea of disclosing and that word has so much like
R behind it because that it comes like that you would have disclose indicates something
is negative because it's like otherwise why is it a disclosure? Like but yeah,
it's just like and yeah, And so I think in the healthcare field
there's an ignorance to the non visible intersections of identity, whether that be your
LGBTQ plus, whether you're neurodivergent, whether you you know, perhaps are a
parent, right, and you don't want to bring that into the mix.
There is so much bias, uh for the things that they can't visually say.
There's this assumption at all everyone is like the norm. And so I
remember thinking, like do I even share because I had a learning disability when
I was younger? Do I even share about this? Not autism at that
point, but a learning disability? Like how I navigated through that? And
I'm sure this person is sharing because they might need some accommodations, and we
have to accommodate those who disclose, right, So from a legal perspective,
so it's to me, it's interesting how all of this overlaps into society and
internally, right, because the more intersections you have, the more it impacts
your mental health and your wellness the way people interpret that. Right, So,
if I can be authentically myself for three of my identities, but two
of them I have to hie all the time, I'm still doing the mental
work, Like if I have to hide that I'm queer and I have to
hide I'm autistic, but I'm okay. But you love me as like a
woman and a black person and maybe a mother, Like how is that?
How how does that harm me? So? And how do we like,
how do we get workplaces to see that? If you're going to engage in
inclusion, right, that means all identities. You can't be holistic exactly.
Y yeah, because people are people. They're not like a pie chart of
their different Yeah. Yeah, I don't think we're quite there yet with it's
definitely be heard not yes. So I love those companies that are like,
we are leaning in against prejudice and we want to do DEI And here's what
we want to focus on. We want to focus on race, right,
and we want to focus on gender. But we don't know if we want
to focus on sexuality because we don't know if we're ready for that. Yeah,
that might be a bit much. Yeah. Yeah, but if you
open the doors, you can't be like, oh you can't come in.
So yeah, oh good, that's the opposite. Yep. It's it really.
It is exhausting thinking about we've come so far, but we still have
like so far Togo, because the intersectionality is that piece of the puzzle that
we again have not mastered yet and speaks going all the way back to the
beginning, speaks to your mom's fear. It's like, so now, all
of a sudden we have to count up the number of our differences, and
then what are we going to create privilege based on people who only have like
two differences based versus people who have six? Like then that's we're still doing
the same thing. Like it's so it's so complicated, and we're all intersectional
people whether yes, exactly like because and we're all kind of biased. So
and that is why I named the company that started out as sort of a
side hustle and enjoy conscious bias because we create our conscious right, our conscious
existence, that's all done by us, but there's also conscious bias and unconscious
bias. Right, So if we can consciously think about these things, what
could we shift and change and how much healthier could we be if we could
kind of like lean into those spaces because I kind of think like our health
and it's showing up in our health now. The more that we pull out
identities and say, well, it used to be that, you know,
these were the ways that we kept people oppressed. Well, now that we're
open to those things, well, let's oppress people in a different lay.
Yeah, We've just found new ways to do it. Because the system and
the infrastructure is what the problem is. It wasn't like the problem was this
specific way that It's like the whole in foundation is the problem. So so
you know, we we've wandered around and I love it. I love it.
I love it well as we as we wrap up, do you want
to like shout out your your company that and like and what you are doing
now and just like yeah, just anything else that we haven't covered, I
wanna I want to hear about. Yeah. Yeah. So over the years,
I went from you know, being a nurse to working for a publishing
company where I started like thinking about, you know what, how could I
make a bigger impact? And that was really when I started thinking about things
like DEI getting different certifications and so what I what I try to do with
my company is focused on how can we see this inclusion and diversity and and
equity from a wellness perspective? Like are you are you looking at this need
for your employees from their health because we know mental health is a huge impact.
We know that mental health impacts our physical health, Like are you creating
psychological safety? If you're working for an organization, you will spend the bulk
of your day working for that company versus working with it. With yourself?
Right, So should not companies think about the health of their employees as well
as the DEI piece, Right, They go hand in hand. And I
find that they want to do workshops and they want to say okay, like
they bring a speaker in and the speaker bubbles up feelings. But what resources
do you have after rebubble up this, after it becomes like a discussion,
do you have something wellness? Do you recognize the identities that you're talking about
out? What like? Are you ready to really engage in thoughtfulness and create
psychological safety and spaces for people to be safe? You want them to say
to them, now go out and be authentic, yea, the resources?
Are you prepared? So I try to get companies to or individuals even I
do coaching, so I try to get people to think about like, you
know, let's have a let's have let's let's let's look up and also zoom
and are you ready for engaging in this? I think that's why DEI has
gotten not a great name because we haven't really mapped out like, yeah,
you can. You can start people talking about this, but if you don't
offer them resources and the support when issues arise and realize that, yes,
you will become innovative, but you will be innovative once you have a way
to recognize and keep voices safe. You're not being a well company. You're
kind of being unhealthy to your employees. So that's what that's what I kind
of do. Yeah, because I think d I. You know, it
became a buzzword and a lot of companies used it cosmetically as like a fresh
coat of paint and it's like there's termites in these walls, Like you can't
just paint over the ship, like we gotta deal with that. So yeah,
I love the termites in the walls. So yes, So where could
people then find you if you if you want to be found like and your
company and all of that. Yes, So they can find me on my
website www dot conscious by us uh spelled b y u s dot com linked
Yes, now it makes sense, right, I got it. I got
it. They can find me on LinkedIn. They can find me on Instagram
if they find my personal page, it's so and goofy on Instagram, so
please take it with a lighthearted you know. And on Instagram, we post
Monday through Friday, different stuff like little little like pop ups about like some
of it's cheesy. Some of it's cheesy. I will say I do a
woke Wednesday, and I know people are like, well who says woke?
But I'm old. I'm a Generation xer, so I can use that.
Come for me, don't what's this? No? Please? I look,
we are not an agist podcast. Well you know what you know, it's
always so so funny to be like yeah, and I'm putting out there and
like come for me if you want. But like, secretly, I'm like
really a scared child, so like like I hate when I get like scary
comments on anything I post, like you know, like like trolls, you
know, please don't troll me. No trolling. And also, yeah,
people are the scariest demographic because they're hopelessly hippen cool and when they make us
feel not been cool, that's very hurtful. So young people, please,
yes, be mindful mind by your elders. Be mindful of your elder who
sometimes make missteps because the language is also new for it changes so quickly.
Yes, the language is new for us. My kids were like they were
like, don't say anything silly or that's going to get you canceled. And
I we can be honest silly now that's not okay, Well, it would
be embarrassing to them because they are the hippies most they're like the most awesome
people ever. You said eighteen, and I was like, oh, yeah,
that's a scary age. That's like the coolest age. Yes, my
youngest is eighteen and my oldest is twenty six. Say okay, and I
feel like I still look good, Like yeah, you said your age and
I was like, oh I did not that, So yeah, yeah I
think. And so wait, which is the Instagram? What's the Instagram handle
for the one? So the Instagram so you can find me on Instagram at
conscious by us two it's under and so same moniker. But if they were
to type in like Tahisha Timmons, it would it would lead to the personal
page, which is the potentially just be aware, be aware, excellent and
if I'm not the sacred. There was one more thing that you wanted to
sort of like give a shout out to before I wrap up, So yeah,
do you want to Yeah, go ahead, yeah, yeah, So
I there are some voices out in social media Instagram LinkedIn, who I just
think are just queer powerhouses. So Adrian Marie Brown. She's a poet,
she's an activist writer, like love her, goddess to me, I'm probably
not using the correct identifiers for them. Family, How who helped me so
much? Thought leader out there in the tech field. I had a lot
of negative thinking when I first decided to kind of like explore what it would
be like to be really active in this community. And then there's two allies
that I just love and so Amanda Amanda Seals, the actress and comedian.
She is kicking ass right. I love her so much. I went to
her stand up show last year and she was just like, how we as
marginalized people cannot come together and just be the global majority we are, including
the LGBTQ plus community, like black people, we need to like stop being
homophobic. And I was just like, I love you, I love you.
I wish you were queer. I don't mean that. She feels very
like you're saying like an ally, like very adjacent, yes, a powerful
ally. And then someone who I work with, Melania Johnson. She's a
coach. She has a coaching group called Be Smart Coaching, and she also
works for an organization. And when I say she's and I call her an
ally. I'll call her into the ally space because other queer folk, where
she is like just a powerhouse, will say bring her because she will and
she's not queer. Bring her because she is so passionate about her voice,
because as a black woman, she gets it, like you know, we
can have empathy across and I just she's fantastic, fantastic. Wow, that's
thank you so much. Thank you for doing that. And then, as
you know, the podcast is at coming Out Pod on both Twitter and Instagram.
I am at Lauren on Twitter, learn underscore flows on Instagram. What
else, y'all? How do we usually do these wrap ups? Thank you
so much to all of my patrons. Uh, if you have not ever
rated or reviewed the podcast, it's never a bad time to give all five
star rating on iTunes or on Spotify Mobile. But yeah, just thank you
all so much for listening. It was so great to meet you to Yujia.
This was such a fun conversation. Thank you for going all over the
place with it and with me. I truly I really appreciate that. And
yeah, y'all I will I will see you next month. Bye.