WEBVTT

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Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your
host, Cliff Dunning. This is your

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last chance after this, there is
no turning back. You take the blue

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pill. The story ends, You
wake up in your bed and believe whatever

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you want to believe. You take
the red pill. You stay in Wonderland,

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and I show you how deep the
rabbit hole goes. I remember,

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all I'm offering is the truth,
nothing more. That's the beginning of the

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movie Matrix, and the character Neo
is getting a choice to stay in the

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Matrix, a artificial world created by
machines, or understand where he has coming

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from, how he was born,
and understand that he has a choice to

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be in the machine world or be
out of it observing what is going on.

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We're talking about artificial worlds today,
featuring a book called The Simulation Hypothesis

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by author Ritz wine Urk, and
I've been wanting to have on the program

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for a while simply because he is
of the belief that we are living in

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an artificial created world, that we
are living karmically, we are living through

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different multi universes, and I've been
wanting to him on the I've been wanting

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to get him on the program for
about eight months and today we will be

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speaking to him on his theory,
on his discoveries of our artificial world.

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Now, if you follow the Eastern
philosophies, and we talk a lot about

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the yugas, we talk about meditative
practices, we talk about yoga, they

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have always contended that we are living
in an artificial environment, that we incarnate

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on a huge platform. We incarnate
in the body. The soul activates the

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body when we're born, and we
live out our life according to a script,

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and the script is karma. The
script is an agreement prior to incarnating

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that you must fulfill and it is
people that you meet, the work you

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do, the relationships you have,
the career you have, and so on.

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And if you can step outside the
creation that you have incarnated in through

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meditation, through yoga practice. In
some cases this includes ayahuasca or psychotropic drugs,

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where you can actually step out and
see and look back into what you're

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up to. This is important and
the various stages, including present day yogis,

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are all about developing what they call
self realization, where you know you're

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in the matrix, you know you're
in an artificial environment, and you can

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begin to manipulate it so that you're
having more positive reactions, you're having more

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positive lifestyle, you're more successful,
and you begin to burn karma. And

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that's a big one. And I've
never really understood how you accumulate karma,

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but you know, the obvious ones
are you hurt people, you kill people,

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you traumatize others and animals, And
I think most likely the environment.

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If you're a big polluter, if
you're the CEO of a big company and

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you're polluting, I think you're creating
karma there. And then you come back

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through different lifetimes and you try to
burn through that karma, and it's a

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huge, huge cycle. Now today
we're going to learn that we actually live

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in a mo multiverse, which is
multiple realities, concurrent lifetimes where you could

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be living a thousand different lives and
experiencing karma and creating karma, all in

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an environment that you can consider a
matrix or a school. We're learning we

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are applying our karma, our scripts, and we are discovering ourselves. We're

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discovering why we came to the reality
that we're experiencing, and so forth and

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so on, and it becomes fascinating
and becomes a little confusing. I have

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been meditating for over thirty years,
and occasionally, not every time, but

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occasionally, when I go very,
very deep, I will kind of link

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up with what I can only consider
is my higher self, and I feel

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this extreme peace. That's the only
way I can describe it. But the

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other thing is when I'm hooking up
with the higher self, that is,

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in a way, the Godhead or
the Nirvana is what the Hindus call that

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space. And when I'm in that
space, just for a few seconds,

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I have tremendous relief, tremendous peace, and I guess you could call it

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profound awareness. It's very very strange. It's hard to explain. But again,

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it doesn't happen every time. It
happens infrequently, and I would say

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the majority of my meditations are just
deeply relaxed, and in the evening I

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do twice a day, I do
morning meditation. I do one right after

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I kind of finish the day,
I'll do a meditation and I use that

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to reset my day, my evening, I should say, and by doing

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that, I can stay fresh,
I can stay focused into the early evenings

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and then I'll retire for the day. But I have found great benefits with

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meditation, and a lot of people
have, and today we're going to talk

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about the one of the great benefits
of meditation, one of the effects of

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meditating on your reality, on your
wellness and holistic outlook. So one of

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the fascinating aspects of this book we're
going to discuss today is the fact that

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Riz the author is a video game
developer and had his aha moment that we

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are living in an artificial environment during
an experience with video games and actually virtual

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reality, which is a huge step
up from simple video gears. You're actually

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wearing the headgear and you're interacting in
an artificial environment, and they're getting so

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good now that you can actually lose
a sense of where you are. And

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it's important that you have people around
here because you could walk out and get

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all kinds of trouble because you're actually
living and experiencing a virtual reality or an

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artificial environment. So this is a
fascinating program today. It's mystical virtual reality,

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it's sci fi, it's video all
combined into one fun interview. Today's

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program is the Simulation Hypothesis, and
my guest is rit swan Verk. Don't

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look down, so it is the
matrix real? We saw the movie with

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Neo, and we see other bits
and pieces of reality creation in movies and

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books. But are we living in
a artificial environment? My guest today has

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written a book called The Simulation Hypothesis
where he not only looks at it from

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a computer scientist, and we're gonna
learn a little bit more about his background,

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but he also uses spiritual wisdom,
some of the church editions of Eastern

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philosophy to kind of explain what he
believes is an artificial reality. My guest

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today is riswan Vik and he is
a computer scientist. He's a graduate of

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MIT. Very impressive. He had
a successful video game career. It's also

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a film producer of Venture Capitalist and
a best selling author. So we're going

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to learn more about this shortly.
Riz, Welcome to Destiny. Great to

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see you. Great to see it
as well. Thanks for having me on.

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All right, I have to ask
you this, and I've watched a

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couple of YouTube channels. As a
computer scientist, you were playing with developing

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videos, successful videos. When did
it come to you that we were perhaps

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involved in a for lack of a
better word, a matrix, perhaps not

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our own design, perhaps there's an
overlord situation here we're going to talk about

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in a second. But where did
this focus come in your mind? Sure?

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Well, so you know, as
you mentioned, I had a successful

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video game company. We created the
number one game in the app store back

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when the iPhone was relatively new and
the app store was relatively new, and

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I had sold that company, and
I was visiting a startup. I became

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an investor, So I was investing
in a lot of different startups in Silicon

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Valley and back in twenty sixteen,
which I guess six years ago now,

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I you know, I ended up
going to visit a company that had a

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virtual reality software that they had built
for playing different types of sports, virtual

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sports. In one of those games
was a ping pong or table tennis game,

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and so I put on this headset
and it was a kind of a

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bulky headset that were bigger than they
are today. There were wires coming from

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the ceiling they had blocked off the
room, and so you know, it

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was no mistaking that I was in
a virtual reality headset. So I started

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playing this virtual ping pong game,
and what happened was that the physics engine

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of the game was so responsive that
it felt like I was really playing a

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real game of table tennis against a
real opponent. Now this was six years

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ago and the graphics weren't even that
great, but somehow the responsiveness fooled my

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brain into thinking that this was real, so much so that at the end

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of the game, very instinctively,
without thinking, I tried to put the

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paddle down on the table, and
I tried to lean against the table,

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but of course there was no table
right, so the controller fell to the

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floor. I almost fell over.
And that's when I started to realize that

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we were building technology, you know, in Silicon Valley and elsewhere, that

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would basically make something like the matrix
possible. We would be able to create

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a video game that was so realistic
that we would not be able to tell

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if we were inside a game or
we were inside physical or what's called base

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reality. And so I started to
think about this theoretical point in the future,

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which I call the simulation point.
So it's a type of technological singularity.

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When people hear the term singularity,
they think AI characters and superintelligence and

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robots taking over the world. But
this is another kind of singularity, which

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basically means that technology advances exponentially at
past the point of no return, and

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so as I started to think about
how long it would take us to get

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there. The more I started to
investigate this idea, I found that there

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was a whole lot of arguments out
there already, including one by an Oxford

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philosopher named Nick Bostrom that said,
if somebody can make these types of simulations,

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then it's pretty likely that we're already
inside a simulation ourselves. And so

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I found these arguments and I started
to think more deeply about it. And

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then I started investigating quantum physics and
realized that quantum physics was telling us that

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there is no physical reality. And
then when I looked at the world's religions,

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particularly the mystical side, I had
spent a lot of time with different

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techniques of consciousness, yoga, meditation, auto body experiences, lucid dreamings.

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I'd been kind of living a double
life while I had been an entrepreneur in

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Silicon Valley. I'd go investigate this
stuff on the weekends, like I'd fly

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out to them in the Roe Institute, et cetera. And the more I

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looked into the different religious traditions,
whether it's Islam, it's Yoga, Buddhism.

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I found that they all agreed that
the world is a kind of delusion

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and it's not real. And I
found out they were saying pretty much the

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same thing. So really, when
I started drawing those connections, that's when

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I decided to focus in and write
the first book about simulation theory, which

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is called the Simulation Hypothesis because it
turns out all three of these areas,

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the technology, which was kind of
my day job, the philosophy, the

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quantum physics, and the mystics,
we're all kind of saying the same kind

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of thing that we're in some kind
of an artificial construct or some type of

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simulation. Okay, we're going to
talk about some of the key triggers that

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you have uncovered that would identify a
matrix like setting. But was there and

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I should mention to our listeners that
you are a meditator. I don't know

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what practice you use or what systems
you use, but you do meditate on

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a regular basis. Correct, Yes, that's correct. Is this transcendental meditation

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or is it another form of yoga
meditation that you describe in the book.

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It's another form of yoga meditation,
and I've over the years, I've learned

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different techniques from different people. But
it's basically a chakra technique where you focus

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in on certain energy centers within the
body and you use that to focus the

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mind. And other times I might
use the mantra. So I kind of

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jump between different techniques that I've learned. Other times I may do more of

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a pranayama technique, which you will
definitely get you into the state where it's

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easier to meditate. And so I've
kind of combined two or three techniques that

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I learned from different groups at organizations
over the years. Okay, so if

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we are in a matrix, who
do you hypothesize is the creator? Who

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is the one who is sitting up
the fields the environments that we call our

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reality. Well, you know that's
the big, you know, sixty four

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thousand or million dollar question, I
guess you would say. And it's one

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of the ones I get asked a
lot. And if you look at it,

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you know, look into it,
there's several different options for what that

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might be right, And so why
don't we just run through a couple of

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those options. Sure we can see, you know, where we might end

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up. So the guy I mentioned
earlier, the Oxford philosopher Naed Nick Bostrom,

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who put out this simulation argument,
you know, he thought it was

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a future version of ourselves, right, so a kind of what he called

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an ancestor simulation. So that would
be as if today we were making a

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video game of ancient Rome that was
really realistic, right, it would be

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a simulation of our ancestors, and
so it could be a future versions of

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us. Other people think it's an
alien civilization that's not really human, but

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they want to investigate what it would
be like, you know, to have

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humans in this simulation. Some people
think that it's God and it ties to

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the religious idea of a creator,
which you know, I think has some

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merit because anyone who created the simulation
from our perspective, would seem like the

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creator, or rather a set of
creators is more likely. My favorite answer

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is that it's us right, that
we help design the simulation, and that

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we are basically players of the game. And so there's actually two flavors to

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the simulation hypothesis, and they're not
mutually exclusive. But it's worth getting into

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it because I think most people haven't
thought through the differences if the simulation is

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this way or that way, and
most likely it's both. But there's what's

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called the NPC version of the simulation
hypothesis, and what that NPC stands for

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is non playable character. So you
know, inside a video game, you

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have your character, which is typically
called like an avatar, which is a

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term borrowed from ancient sanscript by the
way, which was a term for you

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know, divinity to descend into a
body, into a small body. And

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the guys out at Lucasfilm right there
in the Bay Area where you are up

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in Marin County. You know,
at the time, they were creating a

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video game called Habitat on the Commodore
sixty four way back in like nineteen eighty

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nine. You know, we dial
up lines and they had a little too

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d spriked character on the screen and
they're like, what should we call this

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thing? And they said that it
felt like they were taking a big self

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and they were stuffing it into this
little guy. And so they used the

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term avatar for like a divine presence
that stuffs itself into a little human body.

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And so there's your avatar. But
then there's all the other characters that

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are AI within the video game,
and so NPC are all those other characters,

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the bartender, you know, the
opponents or whatever is controlled by the

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computer. So in an NPC version, everyone is AI within the simulation and

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you don't really exist outside the simulation. You only exist when the simulation is

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running. In the RPG version,
which stands for role playing game, you

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are a player and you're plugged in, like in the matrix, right in

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the matrix with Neo and you know, Morpheus, they all existed outside the

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matrix, and they had what we
today call a brain computer interface, right,

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it was right in the back of
the head, and you plug yourself

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in, and then they chose the
cartridge that they wanted, right, They

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were using kind of a console model
of video games. Constructs, I think

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they call them, that's right.
They call them different constructs, right,

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including the what the dojo was a
construct where he was, you know,

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learning. And so in this version
you have a character or an avatar that

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is your body. You exist outside
of the simulation as the player. And

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meanwhile, when you're plugged in,
you forget that you are outside. And

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so that's the RPG version, and
so these are not mutually exclusive. In

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a multi massively multiplayer online video game
like World of Warcraft or Fortnite. Right,

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you have your character, your avatar, and then there are other people's

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avatars, and then there are NPCs
as well, so you have all of

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these. But so if we are
living more in an RPG simulation, right,

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then it's more likely us that had
some say in the simulation, and

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we are here because we chose to. If you will put on the headset,

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right, that's a it's a metaphor
for getting plugged in and crossing what

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the Greeks called, let they the
river of forgetfulness. Right, when you

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incarnate here, you forget about your
life. And this summer I was asked

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to speak at a conference in the
UK that was at an Islamic scholarly institute,

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and I gave a talk about Islam
and the simulation hypothesis. And they

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were all talking about what is insulment, When does the soul connect to the

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body, right, debating all these
ideas, and I said, I'd like

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to give you a different, different
definition of what insulment means. It is

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the moment you put on the headset
and you forget about the life before.

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That is when the soul gets connected
with the body now, you know.

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So in that version, I think
it's it's a version of ourselves. And

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I think the question you asked is
you know, it's it's a deep question

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when you say who's outside the simulation, because it touches into this other question,

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which is what is the purpose of
the simulation? Right? Yeah?

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And and I say, well,
let's think of it in two ways.

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Think of two questions. Why do
we run computer simulations ourselves? Why why

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do we run simulations? Well,
we run like simulations of the weather.

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We'll run simulations of you know,
economies, we run simulations of you know,

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number of people in a in a
particular area, traffic simulations. We

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run them to see what are the
likely outcomes? Uh, and what is

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the most optimal outcome? So and
we change the variables of the simulation.

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And so that's why we would run
an NP simulation. We would run it

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in order to see what would happen. You know, does this this sim

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city or sim Earth if you will, that we're in. Do they blow

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themselves up? Do they destroy the
planet, do they get off the planet?

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You know, are they able to
get to that point? Do they

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become conscious that they're in a simulation. So that's the first question, and

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then the second question is why do
we play video games. We play video

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games to have experiences that we can't
have outside of the game. Right,

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So I can't fly on a dragon
and fight you know, goblins and orcs

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right in physical reality, or fly
out of spaceship and shoot at you know,

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tie fighters in an X Wing Fighter, but I can do it inside

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a video game. So we use
it to have experiences that we can't have

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outside the game, and we may
also use it to learn things, you

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know, train ourselves. You know, if you've ever seen the VR fitness

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games now where you like Beat Saber
and these others where you know you're doing

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like you're doing physical fitness, but
you're doing it with a VR headset.

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I'm kind of like the ping pong
game I was playing years ago. And

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so so that would be a reason
for us to actually co create the simulation

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and then choose our roles and then
jump in and play a specific role.

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This is fairly theoretical at this point
in your dialogue of this and your explanation

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of it, but I want to
dig a little deeper, and you may

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not be able to do this,
where you had an AHA moment where you

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got to blip in the in the
matrix and you were like doing something and

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you're like, wait a minute,
Like like at the very beginning of the

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matrix, they have the cat,
the black Cat, and then it repeats

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itself because there's a little blip in
the in the in the programming. Have

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you had an AHA or did you
have an AHA moment where you were like,

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wait a minute, this is weird, this is artificial. I think

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I'm proving my hypothesis is correct and
this is real. This is a matrix.

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Yeah. Well, you know I've
had many of those, and oddly

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enough, you know, I had
them kind of even before I actually hunkered

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down to write the book about the
simulation, right, and I called them,

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you know, glitches in the matrix
or clues right on a treasure.

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In fact, I wrote a book
called Treasure Hunt a couple of years ago

279
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that was published by Watkins in London
that was about this idea that synchronicity a

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deja vu, and sometimes we would
I would see something in a dream that

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would show up the next day and
it would be a certain kind of synchronicity,

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right, And that was really one
that made me think, Hmmm,

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something is off here, right,
something is not like what they've been telling

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us. Reality is like right.
And the first time this happened, it

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was a long time ago, back
in the nineties where I was running a

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startup and we were building some software
related to you know, IBM and Microsoft

287
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products at the time. Uh,
And we were partners with IBM. It's

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called Lotus at the time. That
was bought by IBM, and you know,

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we work with them pretty closely,
and so our products were like these

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these add ons and they bridge the
gap. Then all these companies, Fidelity,

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General Motors, they all used our
products to kind of interface with IBM's

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products. And then that night,
that that morning, I had a dream

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of a competitor of ours, and
it was a competitor that I hadn't seen

294
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in over a year. I didn't
know what happened to the competitor. I

295
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figured, maybe we're out of business, maybe somebody bought them, but it's

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not wasn't somebody I thought about in
a while. And I had this dream

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and I'm like, it's weird,
what are you doing here. I haven't

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thought about you, I haven't talked
to you in a year. And so

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I get up and I just thought
that was strange. And I go into

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the office and that competitor was a
company called Edge Research in New Hampshire.

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Uh, and that guy was named
Mark something at the time. And so

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I go into the office and the
first thing that happens at like nine AM

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is I get up the phone range. You know, this is back in

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the days of you know, of
landlines. And I pick up the phone

305
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and it's a guy from IBM.
It's a product manager. He's saying,

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Hey, I just wanted to let
you know, because we're you're a partner

307
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of ours, that we're going to
be announcing a product that's gonna unfortunately it

308
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might crush your product, but you
know, we just wanted to give your

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heads up that we're announcing it today. That was like great, great,

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But then I said, heck,
come, I I haven't heard of this

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product before. I mean, you
got IBMS, big company, there's a

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lot of people. It's odd that
you would keep it secret this long.

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And he goes, oh, that's
because we bought that competitor of yours called

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Edge Research, last year and they're
releasing the product today. And it was

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that same morning that I had the
dream, and I remember thinking, Okay,

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00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:37.559
something really odd is going on here, right. The dream happened at

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00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:41.799
the first and then I got the
call about edge research, and so that

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led me to believe that there's there's
another mechanism, right, We're tapping into

319
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different timelines or something. And that
kind of made me pay attention to synchronicities

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and when things go a certain way
when we weren't expecting them. I mean,

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even around twenty sixteen, when I
was doing the virtual reality Ping Pong

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game, I had sold my last
company and I was thinking what should I

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do next, And I had this
idea, Hey, maybe I can go

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back to MIT. Maybe I can
go to the Media Lab, which is

325
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where I did my undergraduate degree.
But it was like twenty years earlier,

326
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:17.599
and I hadn't really done anything with
MIT since then, and I was like,

327
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:18.720
well, okay, but what would
I do there? And I looked

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00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:22.160
online and I couldn't find anything that
looked interesting, so that maybe it was

329
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just a random thought. Within a
week, I did an email from a

330
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.319
MIT professor whose office is in the
Media Lab saying, Hey, I'm coming

331
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out to the Bay area and I'd
like to talk to you. And then

332
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.240
he came out and talked to me
and gave me an invitation to come and

333
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:38.119
talk at their classes. And then
because of that, I ended up running

334
00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:41.559
a whole startup program called play Labs
at MIT, which was at the Media

335
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.559
Lab. And so it was this
weird case where I wasn't necessarily trying to

336
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.759
manifest it right, but the thought
came in my mind that hey, maybe

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this would be an interesting idea.
And so again I've had enough of these

338
00:27:52.599 --> 00:28:00.440
experiences to realize that sometimes there's a
strange synchronicity going on and that might relate

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very much to this idea that we're
in an information based reality. Okay,

340
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those are those are pretty good examples. I want to get to the Eastern

341
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philosophy side of this book, which
makes it really hit home for me because

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I'm very much involved and focused on
Eastern philosophy Eastern techniques when it comes to

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reincarnation and karma, which are a
big part of Buddhist theory, Hindu theory,

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and other ancient traditions. It looks
like we reincarnate the situation, where

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as I understand it. You can
tell me if this doesn't work for you,

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but we have a script before each
lifetime. We are given a script

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and you're gonna follow it, and
you're gonna this is gonna be your pro

348
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.640
I'm gonna call it programming. So
you incarnate into a body, you have

349
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this script that you kind of follow, and within this script there's karma,

350
00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:03.440
things that you needed to relearn,
things that you perhaps in the previous life

351
00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:10.279
didn't do well, or perhaps you
were rude and you were a mass murder

352
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:19.920
or something, and you're coming back
to perhaps cleanse out or pay homage to

353
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:27.319
people that may have followed in the
same foot print or footpath or whatever you

354
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:36.559
want to call it. So my
question is talk about reincarnation as a program

355
00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:41.319
in the matrix and how you can
actually dial in and out of that to

356
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:47.200
create success. That's a little bit. That's a lot. So that's a

357
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:49.519
lot. Well, why did I
start with the Eastern side? Okay?

358
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:55.440
And you know karma and reincarnation and
so you know what's fascinating to me is

359
00:29:55.480 --> 00:30:00.920
that you know in the ancient traditions
that they used certain metaph force to try

360
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:07.279
to describe this idea of reincarnation and
to describe the insulment right and one of

361
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:11.319
in the baghav Ghita for example,
it uses a phrase that actually recurs in

362
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.839
other religion religions, which is that
it's the soul or the atman in this

363
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:22.759
case, which is the kind of
personal element of the overall Brahma or soul.

364
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.559
It puts on a pair of clothes, right, And that's what the

365
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:29.240
body is like you put It's like
you're putting on a pair of clothes,

366
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:33.359
uh, And then you're living that
particular life. Uh. And I found

367
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.039
that, you know, pretty fascinating. There. There's an old story,

368
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:41.359
uh, in the in the Hindu
traditions, of a warrior named Narada who

369
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:45.119
goes to the god Vishnu and says, I want to learn about maya.

370
00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:51.440
And so maya means illusion in Sanskrit, and it's a key term within Buddhism,

371
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.680
right and within Hinduism. And but
the interesting thing idea about it is

372
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that it's not just illusion. If
you look more carefully at the meaning,

373
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it means something like a carefully crafted
illusion, meaning that we deceive ourselves in

374
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:11.279
order to enjoy disillusion enjoy in quotes
there, but meaning to immerse ourselves.

375
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:15.920
It's like you go to a magic
show. You know that the guy on

376
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.559
the stage is not really sawing that
woman in half, right, but you

377
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:22.079
kind of suspend your disbelief because you
ought to be like, wow, that's

378
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:26.079
amazing. How the heck did he
do that? Right? And so that's

379
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:30.240
what Maya is. And so Narada, this famous warrior, goes to the

380
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.799
god Vishnu and says, I want
to learn about Maya, and Vishnu says,

381
00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:37.119
well, you can't learn about it. I'll just show you what Maya

382
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:38.759
is, and he goes, Okay, so he says, step into this

383
00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:42.799
pool of water. Narada steps into
this pool of water, and suddenly he's

384
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:48.359
a young baby girl named Sushila,
and he goes through and he forgets completely

385
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:52.759
about the Narata and he goes through
the life of Sushila, who's the princess

386
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:57.359
of a king and she marries another
prince and then the prince her husband fights

387
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.799
with her father and all the males
and her family get killed, and she's

388
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:06.039
really disfunded, and she goes and
steps into this pool of water and suddenly

389
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.200
she's back as Narrata with Vishnu and
he goes, now, do you understand

390
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:14.480
what Maya is? That was Maya, right, wow? And it was

391
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:16.920
that entire life where you know,
he forgot about it, and so,

392
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:22.559
you know, the metaphor of the
dream is used a lot Yoga Nanda,

393
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.319
who wrote autobiography of the Yogi,
which is a topic of my most recent

394
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:29.200
book called Wisdom of a Yogi.
You know, he used to say that

395
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.240
life and death are but doors through
which we go from one dream world to

396
00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:37.079
the next dream world, right,
and so this and the butdh of course

397
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.200
used the dream as a metaphor for
life. In fact, but Buddha means

398
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:45.240
awake right. Somebody said to him, what are you and he used a

399
00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:47.880
term that was based on the ancient
Sanskrit in his native language of Poli.

400
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:52.240
He said, I'm but right,
which means awake right. And if he's

401
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:54.400
awake, that means the rest of
us are dreaming. And we can talk

402
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:59.200
more about the dream metaphor later if
we on. But so those were interesting

403
00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:02.839
metaphors what it's like to incarnate.
And I believe today that we have a

404
00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:07.160
better metaphor, and that is of
an interactive video game. Right, so

405
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:09.880
when you choose a particular character,
you know you're going to play Grand Theft

406
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:15.039
Auto, right, or you're going
to play you know, Eve Online,

407
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:20.680
or you know Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven. You're choosing a role, and in

408
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:23.400
some games you actually it actually shows
you here's the different avatars you can have.

409
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:27.480
Choose which one you want, right, And so you choose that role,

410
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:31.680
and you have a basic storyline and
you have what are called quests.

411
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:37.680
And so for me, you don't
have to make an analogy that much for

412
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.400
this idea of playing a video game
and having a life, and then you

413
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:44.440
finish that game and you can go
back and review that and then you can

414
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:47.480
play again. Right. In fact, the term multiple lives is used in

415
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:52.680
video games right that back in the
seventies when Atari was the main video game

416
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:57.039
company, they came up with that
Termoh you're playing multiple lives? What were

417
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:00.519
they you know, they weren't thinking
about the Eastern traditions. But it's funny

418
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:04.400
how it relates so well to that
idea is that you take on this world

419
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:08.079
of the character. So I view
karma as almost like a questing algorithm.

420
00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:13.440
And so the way video games work
today is you have a series of quests,

421
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:15.920
right, You don't just to go
play and you see the list of

422
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:20.320
quests and only some of them are
open because they're right for the level of

423
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:22.840
the character that you're at, and
you choose to unlock these quests. And

424
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:27.199
after you do the quests, sometimes
you can't achieve it. You have to

425
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:30.159
go back, you die, something
happens, you have to go back,

426
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:32.119
and you have to redo the quest, right. And then at other times,

427
00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:36.320
at the end of a quest,
it unlocks multiple other quests. And

428
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:38.880
so in Silicon Valley, we like
to say this stuff is stored in the

429
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:42.840
cloud, and that's where karma is
stored. Right. So in a video

430
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:45.119
game, you have the rendered world, which is what you see around you,

431
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:50.360
and then you have all the information
that drives the game. That information

432
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:53.400
like what's in your inventory, what's
your level, and sending messages to your

433
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:58.599
friends. All of that is information
that's not in the rendered world, but

434
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:01.079
you can kind of see it you're
playing a video game, but if you're

435
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:05.079
in the eyes of the character,
it's not really there. And and so

436
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:08.880
Karma is like a questing algorithm,
uh, and it puts these new quests.

437
00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:12.559
So every time we create karma.
And so if you look at the

438
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:15.679
ancient definition of yoga from Patan Jolly, and you know, I did kind

439
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:22.599
of a new translation of this phrase
from the yoga south thras where you know,

440
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:28.760
it'says yoga jit ritty naroda, and
what that means in sounds great is

441
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:35.960
yoga is the cessation, which is
naroda of the ritzis and one of the

442
00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:39.239
rittis. The frittis are like it
literally means world pools, world pools,

443
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:45.280
and chitta means mind stuff. So
it's like saying it's whirlpools of mind stuff.

444
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.280
Well that that doesn't translate so well
into English, but basically I said,

445
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:52.920
you know, if you're retranslated,
it's yoga is the cessation of the

446
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:57.960
whirlpools of thought and feeling. Right, because when we translate a lot of

447
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.360
the Indian stuff, particularly the Buddhist
traditions, we talk about stopping thoughts,

448
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:06.280
but really it's the attachment, which
usually means there's an emotion involved. So

449
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:08.559
it's not just thought, it's thoughts
and the emotion that go with those thoughts.

450
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:13.880
Together, what they do is they
create these little whirlpools that get stuck

451
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:16.840
in our energy fields, and then
once they're stuck, they become some scars.

452
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:21.880
And then the some scars lead to
what are called masanas or tendencies,

453
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:27.400
which then become karma, which become
part of our script for the next life.

454
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.639
And so yoga, even though we
think of it as being more about

455
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.199
you know, physical saunas today,
right, if you read Automography and Yoga,

456
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.800
there's very little about the asanas in
that book. And that was one

457
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:42.159
of the first books that was really
made yoga popular in the West back in

458
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:45.280
the sixties. All the all the
you know, the counterculture folks in the

459
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:51.519
sixties and seventies past around copies of
that book. And so yoga is about

460
00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:55.079
stopping those which means stop creating new
karma, right, And if you stop

461
00:36:55.119 --> 00:37:00.920
creating new karma, means your database
isn't growing, it's actually really shrinking,

462
00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:04.639
right, And that's you know,
the Buddha said, if you stop doing

463
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.840
this, then that will stop too. What is that? That is sansara

464
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:12.599
and the wheel and so in the
simulation setting, it's like, stop putting

465
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.239
stuff in your database for yourself to
do in the future. And if you

466
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:17.880
do that, you can then start
to see, oh, look, this

467
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:24.159
is all just a game, and
this is how this is all. We're

468
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:30.599
going to take a short commercial break
to allow our sponsors to identify themselves and

469
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:35.960
we will be right back with my
guest today risbon Verk, discussing his new

470
00:37:36.000 --> 00:38:16.440
book The Simulation Hypothesis, will be
right back. I guess today is video

471
00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:22.760
game designer riswold Vik, who has
written a new book called The Simulation Hypothesis,

472
00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:29.239
where he believes that we are living
in an artificial environment and we're discussing

473
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:37.800
the means by which we get around
this unusual world. I think what you're

474
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:40.599
saying is, and I'm going to
use this term right now. Yoga Nana

475
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:46.719
talked about this, But I have
Maharishi mesh Yogi who handed down the easiest

476
00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:51.599
system of meditation in the world.
I don't know how many millions of people

477
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:57.440
adopted it and continue to adopted it
adopt his form of meditation. I think,

478
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:09.119
in the most succinct language, becoming
self realized is understanding the karmic system

479
00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:16.079
and understanding that you are reincarnating.
But I'd like to hear from you if

480
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:22.800
being completely self realized in the matrix
means that you're consciously playing the game,

481
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:30.360
and that you're consciously able to manifest
what you want when you want it,

482
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:35.719
and at some point you can get
off the playing field and say I want

483
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:43.159
to transition this physicality and go and
do something else. Yeah, well I

484
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:45.440
think there's two. There's two ways
to think about it, right, And

485
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:50.679
I'm glad you asked the question that
way because I think you know it's worth

486
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:57.199
considering both. Both kind of trast
towards self realization in a sense. Right.

487
00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:01.519
In one way, it'sly immersing yourself
in the game and playing the character

488
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:06.280
that you're supposed to be playing,
right, That is why you're there in

489
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:09.920
the first place, right, so
completely experiencing it. Right. It's like

490
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:14.679
back when I was at MIT,
I had a there was a physics instructor.

491
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:19.239
He was a pig farmer from Ireland
who became a physics instructor at MIT,

492
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.559
A very interesting guy named Bill Kennedy. I fund you. I think

493
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:24.480
he's past now, but it's been
many years, but you know, he

494
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:30.559
used to run these workshops and we
used to talk about what happens to your

495
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:35.000
mind when you meditate. And I
remember one of those, either him or

496
00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:37.559
one of the guys there, who
was saying, there's two different things you

497
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:42.400
can see. One is where the
meditator his brain waves are exactly in sync

498
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:45.079
with what's happening. So if somebody
makes a loud noise like Yeah, you

499
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:47.599
can see it jump up and then
the next second it goes right back to

500
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:52.079
where it was. So it's completely
in the moment, whether it's excited or

501
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:57.400
not excited, it's completely experiencing the
moment. The other approach is where the

502
00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:00.480
meditators brain waves are just completely stable, right, they're not affected at all

503
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:05.960
by the loud sound or anything like
that. And those are two different ways

504
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:08.880
of thinking about meditation. But it's
also two different ways of approaching this question.

505
00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:13.199
So the first way is to completely
enjoy the game as it is,

506
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:22.039
uh And but I think self realization
is partly in understanding that you are in

507
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.360
fact playing a game and remembering,
right, remembering that there's a part of

508
00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:30.400
you that actually chose to be in
this game. And when you do that,

509
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:35.760
and that is you know, like
within autobiography the Yogi, for example,

510
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:37.960
there's a ton of miracles that happen, right, all these stories of

511
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:43.719
these saints lemitating saints bylocating saints.
You know, you got a guy materializing

512
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:46.440
a palace in the himalayas U and
you know, I know the Beatles.

513
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:52.800
You know who visited Rishikesh for the
Mahrishi. You know George Harrison used to

514
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:55.639
give away copies of autobiography the Yogi
just to get people thinking about you.

515
00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:01.760
Called it regrooving right themselves right.
But you know what Yogananda says is because

516
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:05.840
if you realize the whole thing is
a dream or a game, you can

517
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.840
then manifest things like creating a palace
in the Himalayas, et cetera. But

518
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:15.719
at the same time, I think
once you realize it's a game, it's

519
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:20.920
also okay to not try to manifest
all these things because you realize that it's

520
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:25.760
just the desires themselves are what creates
more karma for creating what. So,

521
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:30.199
for example, I mentioned materializing a
palace in the Himalayas, and this was

522
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:34.639
a start. I'll just tell the
story briefly from Automak for you because it

523
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:39.360
ties to the simulation and the desires
and the karma. And so Yogananda's Guru's

524
00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:44.239
guru was a guy named Lahiri who
when he was thirty years old, was

525
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:47.360
called to go to by his office
to the mountains and he had nothing to

526
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:50.760
do. He was called to go
to some office in the middle of nowhere,

527
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:53.079
so he decided to hike the mountains
and he ran across this guy Babajie,

528
00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:58.559
who supposedly lived hundreds or maybe even
thousands of years, depending on who

529
00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:00.880
you believe. And he goes,
look, here you have come. And

530
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:02.639
he goes, I don't know who
you are. Who are you? He

531
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:07.519
goes, don't you remember? You
know you meditated with me in this cave.

532
00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:10.400
You became enlightened in this previous life. And here he didn't remember anything,

533
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:14.639
but then he gave him some techniques
and he started to remember, and

534
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:17.599
he said, We've prepared an initiation
for you, and I've created this giant

535
00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:22.039
palace. And it's like this golden
palace in the middle of the mountains,

536
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:24.079
right, it's like something right out
of the Arabian Nights, right out of

537
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:29.199
a lad In fact, many people
accused Yogananda of basically, you know,

538
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:32.920
creating stories that sound like they were
from the Arabian Nights with the genies and

539
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:37.480
stuff like that. But anyway,
so he created this palace and here he's

540
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:39.679
amazed, like where did this palace
come from? And he goes, why,

541
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:42.920
how did you do this? Why
did you do this? And he

542
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.920
goes, well, because in a
previous life, you had expressed this strong

543
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:51.000
desire to live in a palace as
a prince. By creating this, now

544
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:53.880
we are resolving your karma, right, so you no longer have to worry

545
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:57.840
about that. And as soon as
he was initiated the palace disappeared. He

546
00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:01.280
didn't have to go and live an
entire life to satisfy that desire. So

547
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:07.280
karma is also about the thoughts that
we have and the desires that we have,

548
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:10.800
and so it's I think an interesting
lesson so that when you remember who

549
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:15.239
you are, you also don't I
think, have to worry so much about

550
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:20.519
creating you know, these different things
that you might desire, because you realize

551
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:23.920
the desires themselves are are sort of
immaterial, and that there is a script

552
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:27.920
that you still need to work through
some of that script, right, That's

553
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.519
why you're here. You still have
some things to do here. And so

554
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:35.239
I think I think becoming self realized
becomes, you know, being aware of

555
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:38.039
it, kind of like if you've
ever had a lucid dream. We're in

556
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:44.039
the middle of the dream, you
realize that it's a dream and you remember,

557
00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:45.280
oh, yeah, there's a part
of me that's asleep over there in

558
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.800
the bedroom, but it's not here, and it's something that you know,

559
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:53.639
the Tibetans with dream yoga, you
know, really perfected this technique. But

560
00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:57.599
the idea is once you learn that, then there are many different things you

561
00:44:57.639 --> 00:44:59.639
can do. You can enjoy the
dream, you can change the dream,

562
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:02.840
you can other things. But you
try to bring that same awareness into the

563
00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:07.159
physical life to remember that, hey, this is a game that I chose.

564
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:12.159
You know that I'm actually the warrior
Narata. I'm not the princess Sushila,

565
00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:15.400
if you will, right. And
so I think that's a part of

566
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:20.800
being self realized. I think for
a lot of people listening though, it's

567
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:25.159
like that sounds really great and and
self realization is, uh, you know,

568
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:30.519
something I should be thinking of attaining. But in the long run,

569
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:36.679
it's it's a lot to be self
realized. I mean it's it's it's so

570
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:40.719
unique. And we read about the
yoga. Nanda is someone I would consider

571
00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:49.039
self realized, and perhaps his teacher
Shu Kuwar scripture War, I mean he

572
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:53.440
actually changed the Yugas. Uh.
The guy did a sacred small book on

573
00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:58.880
sacred science which was very, very
unique, and we talked about the Yugas

574
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:05.239
quite a bit, simply because it
talks about epics or epochs of mankind uh

575
00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:13.760
coming and going. I want to
bring up another aspect that you don't talk

576
00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:17.679
about in the book, but I
have had people speak on and this is

577
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:25.719
using psychotropics like d m t lsd
ayahuasca, where a person is broken out

578
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:37.559
of current reality and they in some
cases, especially with doctor strass Strassman's analytics

579
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:45.199
of it, they pass into another
reality where they are told that their current

580
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:50.320
reality is a matrix or it's not
what they appear to be. And this

581
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:52.920
is what this is what I thought
you might have done it. You might

582
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:57.119
have said, Hey, Cliff,
my AHA moment was when I took ayahuasca

583
00:46:57.199 --> 00:47:01.039
on my trip to Peru and the
shop and said, I'm gonna be with

584
00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:07.039
you. I'm going to follow you
kind of as a guiding hand. And

585
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:12.920
this is another reality that you should
touch base with. Does that help or

586
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:19.960
hinder your hypothesis? Well, so
I will say that I personally haven't done

587
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:24.079
ayahuasca or d mt UH, and
I have had many people tell me about

588
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:29.440
the effects and how they relate to
this idea of bas so. I think

589
00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:31.239
one of the first guys to tell
me this was Sean Stone, who's Oliver

590
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:35.519
Stone's son. And you know,
I think it was when I first wrote

591
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:37.559
the book. We were having lunch
with a group of friends in La and

592
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:39.360
he said, oh, yeah,
well, you know, if you take

593
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:43.159
DMT, you'll see the lines,
the grid lines of the matrix, so

594
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:45.239
you can you know, you,
you know you you won't be in doubt.

595
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:49.039
And I've had many other people tell
me this, although not necessarily just

596
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:52.639
from d MT or ayahuasca, you
know. So for example, I learned

597
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:59.400
shamanic journey with a gentleman named Robert
Moss who wrote a book called Conscious Streaming.

598
00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:02.199
And it's where you use the drumming, that you used a certain rhythmic

599
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:07.360
drumming to put yourself in an altered
state, and you take a journey.

600
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:09.199
And we used to do it in
groups, right, so we would all

601
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:13.159
try to journey to the same place. And then you come back and you

602
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.320
have what are you know, travel
reports And it's when when they start saying

603
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:21.559
when many of you start having you
know, very similar experiences and you describe

604
00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:23.920
similar things, then you realize,
oh, we actually went somewhere. Where

605
00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:28.920
did we go? That we were
all seeing something quite similar, right,

606
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:32.519
as opposed to you know, especially
when you talk about specific details and not

607
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:37.199
that it worked for everyone, but
it worked for enough people to realize that

608
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:39.840
there are some similarities there. And
I've had other people you know, who

609
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:43.880
reach out to me now and say, you know, they've had experiences where

610
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:46.559
they felt pulled out of their body
and they saw the grid lines of the

611
00:48:46.599 --> 00:48:52.039
matrix itself, and so so you
know, that happens a lot where people

612
00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:57.000
tell me that they've seen something that
to them proves to them that they're in

613
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.920
the simulation. I think for us, for many of us who you know,

614
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:06.679
who meditate, we can often get
into altered states of consciousness without necessarily

615
00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:09.480
meaning psychotropic drugs, you know.
I mean, I've had a lot of

616
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:14.599
different visions that kind of convince me
that, Okay, these visions are like

617
00:49:14.679 --> 00:49:17.679
mini simulations, if you will,
like they really exist in the same way

618
00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:22.280
that what we think we're doing here
in the physical world, you know,

619
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:24.800
really exists to a certain extent as
well. And so I think there are

620
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:29.599
experiences that we can have, but
I think the easiest one is synchronicity because

621
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:36.320
it doesn't require us to really change
our our physical mind per se to notice

622
00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:38.880
that hey, that's really odd,
right, And it's when you start to

623
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:44.599
notice those things like A good good
friend of mine is Diana Walsh Pasoka,

624
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:49.400
who wrote American Cosmic UFOs, Religion
and Technology, is a professor of religion

625
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:53.880
and Catholicism and Universal and she spent
some time with Jacques Bela and they wrote

626
00:49:53.880 --> 00:50:00.360
about this idea of a technological singularity. And I think the best way to

627
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.000
describe that is, you know,
if, for example, I was on

628
00:50:04.039 --> 00:50:07.239
a website and I was looking for
a backpack the other day. Okay,

629
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:08.519
I was on the internet, and
then I went on my phone and I

630
00:50:08.559 --> 00:50:13.360
was on Facebook or some social media
app and there was an ad for that

631
00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:15.280
same backpack. Now I was like, that's really odd. I was just

632
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:20.519
on the website and here's an ad
for that backpack. Okay. If I

633
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:23.159
wasn't a computer scientist and I didn't
know, well, there's a thing called

634
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:28.800
a cookie that stores this information in
the database, and they can easily match

635
00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:31.960
where I was to where I am. Now, if I didn't know about

636
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:35.079
that, it would look like magic, right, it would look like a

637
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:38.840
glitch in the matrix. Right.
But because there's information that's stored, and

638
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:42.280
that's how I like to think about, you know, the physical reality is

639
00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:45.840
it's based on information, right,
That's where a lot of my computer science

640
00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:49.960
background and physics led me to.
Any investigating the physics is that we are

641
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.400
in a physical world that is really
just information that gets rendered. And I

642
00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:59.840
think, so these altered states of
mind, let us kind of peek behind

643
00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:02.559
that and see what other things might
be there. But that there are linkages

644
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:07.000
of this information. And that's why
syncreticity it seems so weird, but when

645
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:10.000
in fact it was there in the
database all along. It was just that

646
00:51:10.039 --> 00:51:15.000
we couldn't see that that that that
cookie to see that as we create.

647
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:19.079
I like to think of the world
as karma as an engine of creation,

648
00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:22.639
which is really if you go back
to it, right, maya is not

649
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:25.519
just an illusion, it's an engine
of creation. It creates things. Right,

650
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:30.800
So how do the lords of Carmon
which is a metaphoric term create the

651
00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:36.119
situations in our lives? Right?
How do they manifest these things? And

652
00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:39.559
I believe they do it by looking
at all this information that's been stored and

653
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:43.760
then you look at what is being
created by the people around you, and

654
00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:46.400
you try to match the two.
And in my book, I get into

655
00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:51.800
some details of how karma is a
questing algorithm, but it chooses based on

656
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:54.760
the people that you are physically around
and that you're interacting with and what their

657
00:51:54.840 --> 00:51:59.280
database says and what your database says. So I went off on a little

658
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:02.880
bit of a tangent here from the
you know, the mind altering substances.

659
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:07.880
But yeah, I have heard from
many people that you know that that that

660
00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:10.280
that they see different types of things. But sometimes people have bad trips too,

661
00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:14.440
so you know, it's you have
to be a little bit careful.

662
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:17.519
I think sometimes I like, and
you write this in your book, Karma

663
00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:24.559
is is the programming is how you
phrase it, and we come in the

664
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:30.559
karma is the script with a few
variations. We incarnate into the physical body

665
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:36.320
and then we live that karma and
then die and then go back to heaven

666
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:40.280
or whatever you want to call it. And this is near death experience.

667
00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:43.960
And by the way, you mentioned
Daniel Brinkley, who is a close friend

668
00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:51.760
of mine. Yeah, and he
describes the other side is another form of

669
00:52:52.039 --> 00:53:00.920
schooling or university where you evaluate the
lifetime and then you perhaps modify the karma

670
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:07.320
for the next life and you would
guard it again. Is fascinating. Yeah,

671
00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:08.760
well, I mean, if I
could just say something on that life

672
00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:13.239
review the life review which Daniel and
he's a good friend of mine as well,

673
00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:17.360
you know, he describes as the
holographic, panoramic, three dimensional review

674
00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:22.159
of his life where he's reliving every
moment. He's not just reliving it though,

675
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.400
he's reliving it from the perspective of
the other people now a few years

676
00:53:25.400 --> 00:53:30.119
ago. And this actually led me
to include this as a key part of

677
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:32.519
the book. Was I was working
at a virtual reality startup. A friend

678
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:36.519
of mine had started it, and
what we would do is we would take

679
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:39.079
a video game that you have already
played, like League of Legends, which

680
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:45.400
is a popular, very popular esports
game, or counter Strike Global Offensive,

681
00:53:45.639 --> 00:53:47.960
which is a first person shooters as
a very popular game. You would shoot

682
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:53.760
people, and we would take that
game play session. He would replay it

683
00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:57.800
virtual reality, so you would put
on a virtual reality hell of it,

684
00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:00.639
even though it wasn't a VR game, it was just two D grade,

685
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:04.760
and then you would replay it from
any X, Y Z coordinate you want

686
00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:07.360
it. So basically you could replay
the game and see what it was like

687
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:12.440
to be in the middle of the
battlefield and to be shot by yourself,

688
00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:15.719
which is exactly what Daniel described,
right. He said that he had to

689
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:17.880
see what it was like to be
the guys when he was in the military

690
00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:22.840
that he shot right in Vietnam or
whatever it was, that sharpshooter, right,

691
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:27.280
he actually killed people, but he
had to not just see them,

692
00:54:27.400 --> 00:54:31.000
he had to see the effect what's
called the ripple effect of the emotions,

693
00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:36.360
of the emotions, and then on
the wife or the kids of the people.

694
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:37.960
And so you know, as I
got into the simulation theory, and

695
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:43.000
you know, as a computer scientist, if the life review happens, which

696
00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:45.719
many people have told us that it
does, and actually it turns out there's

697
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:52.400
actually pretty strong evidence for in various
scriptures around the world. It's just you

698
00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:54.840
they use different metaphors and different names
for the same thing. There's a scroll

699
00:54:54.880 --> 00:55:00.480
of deeds in Islam where you have
two angels, one right down all your

700
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:02.559
good deeds and write down, right
down all your bad deeds. That's a

701
00:55:02.599 --> 00:55:06.360
metaphor, I tell people. Doesn't
mean there's a feather pen with an angel

702
00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:09.119
is sitting on your hop sholder.
That's writing in Arabic or Chinese, every

703
00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:12.440
little head and he went to the
bathroom, right. No, what it

704
00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:15.639
means is it's recording everything and so
as a computer scientist, my question is

705
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:20.320
how you have to record it,
and that's what we do in video game

706
00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:23.400
sessions, and then we replay those
sessions. Like on YouTube, the most

707
00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:28.719
popular content on YouTube, like number
one or number two is rewatching a video

708
00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:34.239
game session, and that is like
the simulation you step out of and then

709
00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:37.480
you replay, right. Some people
describe a life review as a big giant

710
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:42.199
screen, others describe it as more
like a theater, a theatrical production.

711
00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:46.760
Dany And I think describes it with
this holographic panoramic where you're stepping back into

712
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:51.079
the roles, and I think that's
very powerful and that that's another thing that

713
00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:55.159
led me to this idea that the
universe is a simulated universe and that we

714
00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:00.440
delve in. Then there's the life
preview, which gets in to the whole

715
00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:05.519
idea of the karmic reaction, of
karmaic plan like what happens if you do

716
00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:07.760
this, what happens if you do
that? Because I still believe we have

717
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:13.920
choices to make in our lives.
So we may have scripts, but the

718
00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:16.960
scripts are more like, you know, a set of possibilities and key points

719
00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:21.559
that we know we're going to get
to and you can choose not to.

720
00:56:21.639 --> 00:56:24.559
So, for example, I became
an entrepreneur in this life after college,

721
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:30.159
and I could have just as easily
gone on to become an academic and kind

722
00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:32.400
of VHD. Well, now I
at the age of fifty, I've decided

723
00:56:32.440 --> 00:56:37.119
to go back and get a PhD. And now I'm teaching classes on simulation

724
00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:42.880
theory, among other things, which
is kind of fun. But it's like

725
00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:45.199
a piece of the script that you
still have the choice of whether to invoke,

726
00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:49.360
you know, this path or that
path at different points in your life.

727
00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:53.920
I believe. Well, you're finishing
this answer with my next question,

728
00:56:53.960 --> 00:56:59.400
which is, and you don't address
this in your book, kind of you

729
00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:02.760
really don't. Is how do we
consciously create our reality? How do we

730
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:10.800
not necessarily sidestep the karma script that
we incarnate with, but how do we

731
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:17.760
ensure that we are not suffering and
getting the most we can out of the

732
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:22.800
reality. Well, you know,
for me, people often ask me,

733
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:28.320
how has this affected your life?
Right, this idea, that word of

734
00:57:28.360 --> 00:57:31.079
simulation. And one of the ways
this affected my life is to realize that

735
00:57:32.599 --> 00:57:38.800
if you play game right, you're
going to have challenges in the game.

736
00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:43.800
That's what makes the game interesting.
If you remember in the Matrix movies,

737
00:57:44.199 --> 00:57:47.039
in like the sequel, they mentioned
there was a first version of the Matrix

738
00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:52.719
that was just this idyllic matrix and
you just had every everything you wanted.

739
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.719
Everything was nice, and it said
the human mind refused to accept that as

740
00:57:55.800 --> 00:57:59.639
reality, right, right, and
so they had to create, you know,

741
00:57:59.719 --> 00:58:02.440
kind of the droll version of the
Matrix that Neo and you know,

742
00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:07.719
all these guys were in that we
saw and and this is true of video

743
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:10.199
games as well. There's a rule
of video games. And it was the

744
00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:14.679
rule I think that was best articulated
by Nolan Bushnell, who was the founder

745
00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:17.760
of ATARII and pretty much the grandfather
of the entire video game industry. And

746
00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:22.159
he said, make the game easy
to play, but difficult to master,

747
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:28.719
right, And that's the key to
a fun game. And that's often what

748
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:30.440
life is. Easy to play.
You're here, right, you got both

749
00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:34.119
you were born. It's easy to
be here, but it's not so easy

750
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:37.719
to master. And so if you
consider the fact that some of the challenges

751
00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:42.239
that you're going through might be challenges
that are part of your quest, right,

752
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:46.760
then maybe you take it a little
less seriously, or you remember that

753
00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:52.360
if you turn up the difficulty level
right in a game, like once you've

754
00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:54.199
mastered something, you can play it
again, but you turn up the difficulty

755
00:58:54.280 --> 00:58:58.119
level. Right. This happens in
video games all the time. So if

756
00:58:58.119 --> 00:59:02.039
somebody is born with the disability,
or if you have financial problems, consider

757
00:59:02.079 --> 00:59:06.639
that you've just ramped up your difficulty
level. Right. That it's the guys

758
00:59:06.639 --> 00:59:09.119
who have the easy lives where everything's
coming easy to them. Maybe they're not

759
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:13.880
the self realized ones. They're the
early players at the lower levels, right,

760
00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:20.639
the baby souls who haven't been Yeah, okay, you've signed up for

761
00:59:21.039 --> 00:59:23.800
the higher Now that said, I
believe that, you know, we can

762
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:30.440
manifest certain things in our lives.
What we're really doing is we're choosing from

763
00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:34.480
this grid of possibilities. So what
you're really doing, and in quantum mechanics,

764
00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:37.800
there's an interpretation of quantum mechanics and
the observer effect that talks about this

765
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:43.519
that when we talk about different possibilities, that they're actual possible futures that are

766
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:47.800
calling to us, right, So
they're sending information from the future to the

767
00:59:47.880 --> 00:59:54.039
current, and each of those futures
is a possibility. But when we tune

768
00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:58.639
into a specific one of those futures
we're kind of like resetting. It's like

769
00:59:58.679 --> 01:00:00.920
those train tracks, right, you
know, you have the train tracks,

770
01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:04.559
and then you have that little switch
that puts you back on this. And

771
01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:07.320
so, you know, one question
that I've pondered in my life, and

772
01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:12.079
even more so after you know,
writing about simulation theory, is why is

773
01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:15.159
it so easy to manifest certain things
at certain times in your life? And

774
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:20.679
it's really difficult at other times?
Right, to manifest something, you can

775
01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:22.199
sit there and visualize it all you
want and it doesn't happen, and other

776
01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:27.719
times, like like I mentioned this
example earlier where I said, well,

777
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:30.960
maybe I can go back to the
media lab and do something there. Right

778
01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:35.800
the next week, something happened,
and then I visited them and the whole

779
01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:39.400
thing just unfolded so easily. And
it wasn't even my pushing on it,

780
01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:45.199
right, I wasn't visualizing it,
but I did have an impression. And

781
01:00:45.239 --> 01:00:50.639
so it's a matter of I think, rather than simply visualizing anything, it's

782
01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:55.000
tuned in to one of these realities
that's already played out for you, and

783
01:00:55.039 --> 01:01:00.000
you tune into that, and you
tune in and you move forward along that

784
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:05.280
path and that's when creating the things
that you want in your life becomes much

785
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:09.639
easier when they are part of your
possible storyline, but you actually orient yourself,

786
01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:14.920
so it's more of like a navigating
rather than a simple creating. I

787
01:01:14.920 --> 01:01:19.159
think that's that's a good analogy and
a good explanation. But I would like

788
01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:24.039
you to address one topic which has
come to the forefront in the last decade,

789
01:01:24.079 --> 01:01:31.639
which is using intention. And I
consider intention kind of a step or

790
01:01:31.679 --> 01:01:37.760
a key to open the possibility.
So if I intend to get a good

791
01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:44.679
job that covers my bills and has
me meet new people and expands my experience,

792
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:51.559
that is kind of a key to
opening a new reality that can And

793
01:01:52.320 --> 01:02:00.000
I'm interested your take on that,
because the terminology intention may be in another

794
01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:08.639
form an Eastern philosophy or a terminology
that means access to multi dimensional realities.

795
01:02:08.679 --> 01:02:14.000
I don't know. Well, for
me, I would say that that is

796
01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:17.400
just the law of karma, right, not just meaning it's not important.

797
01:02:17.679 --> 01:02:22.960
But so people think of karma as
being actions, right, like, oh,

798
01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:25.079
you killed somebody in your previous life
and now they're going to kill you,

799
01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:30.840
right, But it's not just about
that's kind of the course version right.

800
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:34.320
The more subtle version is that in
his thoughts, actions, and deeds

801
01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:39.559
right, that and that creates karma. And so in a sense, you

802
01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:44.480
know, when you are visualizing something
and you're setting the intention, you are

803
01:02:44.599 --> 01:02:49.760
putting that into the database, you
are asking the engine of creation, which

804
01:02:49.800 --> 01:02:53.760
is karma in the Eastern traditions,
to create that situation for you. And

805
01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:58.079
so I believe that when we manifest, that's kind of what we're doing.

806
01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:02.199
By setting that intent, right,
you are focusing your mind and then that

807
01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:07.480
is going into the set of possibilities. And then if there are situations in

808
01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:13.559
your life physically around you that allow
that to happen, right, then it

809
01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:15.800
comes to you. So sometimes it
does work, right, It does work

810
01:03:15.800 --> 01:03:19.880
to set an attention, and it
does open up, you know, certain

811
01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:23.239
ideas because you the more energy you
put into it, the more I believe

812
01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:28.639
you're kind of you know, setting
that karma in motion to have it create

813
01:03:28.719 --> 01:03:31.239
those circumstances for you in this life. Now, we always think of karma

814
01:03:31.239 --> 01:03:35.920
as being for a future life,
but sometimes the karma happens here in this

815
01:03:36.039 --> 01:03:38.599
life as well. And so you
know, there's nothing that says karma has

816
01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:42.840
to happen ten lives down the road, right, it could happen ten days

817
01:03:42.880 --> 01:03:46.760
down as well, And so I
believe it's all part of that that same

818
01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:52.719
process, and that's why our thoughts
are important. Right. So in yoga

819
01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:55.760
they talk I talked about quieting the
mind, right, and of course anybody

820
01:03:55.800 --> 01:04:00.239
who's meditated knows about this. Or
even if you do a good physical that

821
01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:02.199
yoga session, at the end,
what do you do. You have the

822
01:04:02.199 --> 01:04:08.079
shivasan oppose, which is you know, translates to the corps pose or like

823
01:04:08.559 --> 01:04:12.960
the translation that an austral Australian yoga
teacher did better peaceful post. But it

824
01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:16.239
feels like something has settled down at
the end, right, It's like stuff

825
01:04:16.280 --> 01:04:20.880
that was at the storm of whatever
it was, it's kind of settled down,

826
01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:25.119
right. And so that's you know, one aspect of yoga. But

827
01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:28.159
when you do that, you get
a clarity of mind. So now when

828
01:04:28.159 --> 01:04:30.280
you visualize something, it's not one
of these millions of ritti's that are floating

829
01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:34.239
around, right, it becomes a
more powerful ritti, if you will,

830
01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:40.000
a more powerful world whool of thought
and desired intention which then gets floated out

831
01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:45.400
into the engine of creation. In
my opinion, the books called the stimulation

832
01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:49.440
hypothesis. My guest today has been
Rezverk who should read this book? Who

833
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:53.599
did you write this book for?
If you were to, if you were

834
01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:55.880
to, I mean, and by
the way, this book came out in

835
01:04:55.920 --> 01:05:00.280
twenty nineteen, so it's been a
few years. But if you were to

836
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:04.239
to look back and think about well
or even today, who should be reading

837
01:05:04.239 --> 01:05:09.559
this book? Well, you know, I wrote this book because it really

838
01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:15.320
bridged the gap right between people that
I spend time with in Silicon Valley who

839
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:19.360
are like more like technologists who may
be interested in meditation for mindfulness purposes,

840
01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:25.400
with academics who are more scientists right
who are thinking about the nature reality.

841
01:05:25.480 --> 01:05:29.159
With people that I spend time with
in you know, whether it's Buddhist monks

842
01:05:29.239 --> 01:05:33.119
or people that are out exploring different
levels of consciousness, or people in different

843
01:05:33.159 --> 01:05:36.679
spiritual traditions. And I felt like
this book was a way to bridge the

844
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:43.079
gap between all three of these,
in the fourth world being science fiction enthusiasts

845
01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:46.679
who like the matrix in these different
science fiction scenarios, and it really bridges

846
01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:49.920
the gap between those. And that's
why this book has actually been reasonably successful.

847
01:05:50.360 --> 01:05:54.800
You know, it's my best selling
book, and it's been translated into

848
01:05:55.039 --> 01:05:59.199
Portuguese. It hit the nonfiction bestseller
list like their version of the New York

849
01:05:59.239 --> 01:06:02.719
Times bestseller line in Brazil, for
example. It was censored in China.

850
01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:09.719
Oh, I'm not surprised at all
because of all the Buddhist content. Probably,

851
01:06:09.760 --> 01:06:12.719
I mean, they wouldn't tell me
why, although you know, and

852
01:06:12.760 --> 01:06:15.679
it's been translated into other languages Japanese, it's done quite well. But I

853
01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:20.519
wrote it really to bridge the gap
between these different folks who are either left

854
01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:26.480
brain or right brain. Fantastic,
Give us your website and let us know

855
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:30.599
how people can contact you or learn
more about your work. Sure. So

856
01:06:30.639 --> 01:06:34.079
my website is zen entrepreneur dot com
and that's based on the title of my

857
01:06:34.159 --> 01:06:38.519
very first book, which was called
The Zen Entrepreneurship, which was about me

858
01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:43.159
living this double life being an entrepreneur
by day and exploring consciousness stuff at night

859
01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:46.400
and in the weekends. And then
they can follow me on Twitter or at

860
01:06:46.679 --> 01:06:54.039
RIZ Stanford like the University riz STA
and f RD. And you don't have

861
01:06:54.039 --> 01:06:56.679
a YouTube channel. I would think
that you would, but maybe not,

862
01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:00.800
you know, I don't at the
moment. I had a podcast that was

863
01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:03.519
called the simulated universe. But I
haven't done any episodes in a while,

864
01:07:03.559 --> 01:07:08.119
but if people really want to get
deep into the subject, I interviewed you

865
01:07:08.159 --> 01:07:13.000
know a number of philosophers and other
people who computer scientists and others, and

866
01:07:13.039 --> 01:07:15.280
I may revive that at some point. And this week, you know,

867
01:07:15.679 --> 01:07:19.599
all of my books are the ebooks
are on sale for two ninety nine for

868
01:07:19.679 --> 01:07:24.079
the holidays, and they have to
go to the website to download that get

869
01:07:24.079 --> 01:07:27.360
that deal, or I then go
to Amazon. So you're kidding me.

870
01:07:27.679 --> 01:07:30.239
Wow? Yeah, so all the
ebooks are in sale this week on Amazon

871
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:35.320
and on other ebook websites. Yeah, amazing. Okay, you guys listening.

872
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:40.280
That's there. You go. Your
your holidays are set. Riz.

873
01:07:40.320 --> 01:07:44.920
Thank you very much. I enjoyed
speaking with you and definitely going to have

874
01:07:44.920 --> 01:07:47.360
to have you come back. Yeah, I'd love to come back. Thanks

875
01:07:47.360 --> 01:07:50.440
so much for having me on.
This has been a great, great discussion,

876
01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:58.559
a lot of fun. I was
listening to that interview and kind of

877
01:07:58.599 --> 01:08:02.800
going back through the book the simulation
hypothesis. It's kind of scary in some

878
01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:09.320
ways when you think that, hey, we don't have control of our reality.

879
01:08:09.480 --> 01:08:14.320
But yes we do, but we're
not consciously aware that we manifest and

880
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:18.920
consciously create our reality. So it's
kind of a two way street where you're

881
01:08:19.800 --> 01:08:25.720
not conscious of manifesting. But we've
always been told, at least I've been

882
01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:32.640
told that everything you do you do
on your own, and people interact with

883
01:08:32.680 --> 01:08:38.640
you. But you know there is
a God, but you are also godlike

884
01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:45.880
and are able to manifest and create
your own reality. So but what Riz

885
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:51.960
is talking about is this matrix that
and I heard him say that, you

886
01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:58.079
know, we perhaps are the ones
who manifested ourselves. We didn't get into

887
01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:01.279
another good that we didn't have enough
time. But I think we had help,

888
01:09:02.239 --> 01:09:08.880
and I think we had help from
overseers or ancient beings of some kind.

889
01:09:09.319 --> 01:09:13.760
I'm not saying ets. I'm saying, you know, perhaps ancient ancient,

890
01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:17.760
ancient ancestors. It's a head trip. It's a total head trip.

891
01:09:17.800 --> 01:09:23.760
And when you read this book of
how he you know, uncovered and began

892
01:09:23.920 --> 01:09:28.279
to be suspicious of his reality,
it's kind of fun, but it's also

893
01:09:28.359 --> 01:09:32.119
kind of nerve wracking because it's like, wait a minute, this matrix.

894
01:09:32.159 --> 01:09:38.279
I'm in, this artificial, self
generated world, what does that mean?

895
01:09:38.880 --> 01:09:43.960
There's so much within the Eastern philosophies
that we really need to begin looking at

896
01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:49.640
it more closely. Some of us, I'm included, naturally gravitate towards Eastern

897
01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:55.479
philosophies like yoga, like meditation.
And I'll tell you why the more I

898
01:09:55.479 --> 01:10:00.920
think about it. But these are
practices from the earliest epochs, tens of

899
01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:04.479
thousands of years ago, perhaps one
hundred thousand plus years ago, when we

900
01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:10.439
were so syncd up with the Earth
and the other realities and the heavens,

901
01:10:11.279 --> 01:10:18.399
that we regularly interacted with these other
dimensions and these other realities. And we've

902
01:10:18.439 --> 01:10:25.319
lost the ability to do that.
And I think when we find books like

903
01:10:25.359 --> 01:10:31.560
this, the Stimulation Hypothesis and people
talking about manifesting reality, it kind of

904
01:10:31.960 --> 01:10:34.560
for some of us a light bulb
goes on. You're kind of like,

905
01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:41.119
yeah, I kind of do get
it. So what a fun consideration.

906
01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:45.159
We're gonna have to have him back
next year to talk about another book called

907
01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:50.159
the Multiverse, which is multiple realities
and how we work in and out of

908
01:10:50.159 --> 01:10:56.239
that. So, hey, if
you're enjoying Earth Ancients, please consider becoming

909
01:10:56.359 --> 01:11:00.359
a subscriber. For as little as
five bucks a month, you can support

910
01:11:00.439 --> 01:11:03.079
the work we do here on this
program, and I gotta tell you it

911
01:11:03.199 --> 01:11:08.720
isn't inexpensive. I mean, it's
not cheap to put these shows together.

912
01:11:08.760 --> 01:11:12.479
We got Earth Ancients, we got
Destiny, and occasionally we put out Earth

913
01:11:12.520 --> 01:11:19.760
Ancients Special Edition. The Archives at
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914
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:25.000
subscription of five, ten, fifteen, even twenty bucks a month makes a

915
01:11:25.159 --> 01:11:30.159
huge difference. All you gotta do
is go to Patreon register and you are

916
01:11:30.319 --> 01:11:36.479
a subscriber. So to register,
go to Patreon dot com Forward slash Earth

917
01:11:36.479 --> 01:11:44.439
Ancients. That's PA t R e
O N dot com Forward slash Earth Ancients.

918
01:11:44.680 --> 01:11:47.359
We have a ton of really nice
gifts for you, including I think

919
01:11:47.399 --> 01:11:54.159
we're close to thirty ebooks from a
various authors who have donated their books for

920
01:11:54.279 --> 01:11:58.199
us. And there's some galleries and
there's a chance to connect. And I

921
01:11:58.279 --> 01:12:03.760
also post videos and audios and short
articles that I find that might be interesting

922
01:12:03.800 --> 01:12:10.640
to you. So again, become
a subscriber, support us Patreon dot com

923
01:12:10.760 --> 01:12:15.279
Forward slash Earth Ancients. Hey,
I want to remind you also Christmas is

924
01:12:15.279 --> 01:12:20.840
here and you can give yourself a
wonderful gift this holiday season and join us

925
01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:27.520
in Egypt April twenty eighth through May
ninth. This is two weeks of amazing

926
01:12:27.680 --> 01:12:33.560
sights, amazing. This is ancient
Egypt through the eyes of an indigenous tour

927
01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:39.000
guide. That's Mohammed Imbrium. You've
heard him on the program before. Join

928
01:12:39.119 --> 01:12:44.960
us. This tour is almost full. It is half the cost of typical

929
01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:50.239
trips to Egypt. Everything's covered once
you get into the Cairo, your food,

930
01:12:50.319 --> 01:12:55.439
your beverages, all your travel,
all your passes, all your tour

931
01:12:55.640 --> 01:13:00.079
entrances, it's all covered. For
more information in the full light ten ter

932
01:13:00.439 --> 01:13:05.640
go to Earth Ancients dot com forward
Slash Tours. It's gonna be a blast.

933
01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:09.840
All right. That's it for this
program. I want to think my

934
01:13:09.880 --> 01:13:15.439
guest today, Rizwan Verk his book
The Simulation Hypothesis. As always, the

935
01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:20.279
team of Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster
and everyone who makes this thing happen.

936
01:13:20.920 --> 01:13:27.159
You guys rock, you really do
all right, take care of you will

937
01:13:27.239 --> 01:14:05.439
and we will talk to you next. Timetic sci