WEBVTT

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View. Chili Effect is sponsored by
Wallstreet, Window dot Com and listeners like

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you Now and Now aggervated and in
all media tat April fourth, twenty twenty

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four. Allegedly, according to that
thing we call a calendar, this is

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the o'celly effect. And you're hearing
us live if you tuned in almost an

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hour late, because take two I
did a whole big intro and then I

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turned to my guest, who I'm
really excited to have on, and yeah,

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his audio wasn't working, so we
had to straighten that out. And

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now it's almost an hour later.
But whatever, we're gonna get this done.

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Have to take the time. This
is not a throwaway. Guess this

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is not somebody well, I guess
I'll have them on. This is somebody

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who I'm surprised I haven't made an
effort to get on before because I've always

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appreciated his work. I mean,
well always, what do I mean A

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couple decades now. I've appreciated his
work mostly I've seen public presentations. He

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was in The Men Who Killed Kennedy. He's been you know, referenced in

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different documentaries and things like that.
He's been part of collective works where you

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know, he has a section on
certain things, and he is a doctor

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in more than one way MD and
PhD. You know, so you got

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the medical side of it for a
reason, which will become relevant shortly in

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the discussion. And also a physicist, which I find interesting. I think

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that's what his PhD is in.
I'm going to ask him about that,

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along with many other things. What
are we here to talk about specifically though?

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The latest book, the Final Analysis, okay, which has a picture

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of a subruter frame and a representation
of might be an enhanced skull X ray

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photograph based called x ray. But
anyway, that's on the front of the

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book. It's got a black and
a green stripe which is obviously the grass

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from the subruter background in the imagery
on the front of the book, the

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Final Analysis, and it is co
authored by Jerome Corsi. Interesting there,

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But doctor David Mantick, now before
I even go into this book, want

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to just give a special note here
because amazing book I have in my hand

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here which I was unaware of,
and I usually keep myself, you know,

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up to date on literature when it
comes to the JFK case, you

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know, stop counting after I read
three hundred books, and you know the

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reason was that a lot of them
didn't really count after the three hundred.

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But anyway, an amazingly well put
together book which has had more than one

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name, and is I already know
even though I haven't finished it is already

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a reference material. Okay, So
I would suggest not only the book we're

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going to talk about tonight, but
in the future I'm going to try and

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convince them to come back and talk
about this really really useful, educational and

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solid book, which is JFK Assassination
Decoded. Now I'm not going to say

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that name again because I don't want
you to get confused. We're going to

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talk about the final Analysis, which, by the way, I'm sure there's

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gonna be a little bit of a
crossover relating to material here, but somehow

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I think you're gonna want to own
both once you read either one. So

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anyway, David Mantick, I haven't
had him on before, so this is

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going to be different, really happy, and here we go. Take two.

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David again, I haven't seen you
except for on my screen right now.

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I haven't seen you in person since
two thousand and three. Oh wait

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a minute, I missed you that
day because I only went to the conference

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the one day and it wasn't your
day. So how are you tonight,

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doctor Mantick. Well, I'm doing
fine. I'm living in Paradise, home

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of Gerald Ford, Frank Sinatra,
and Bob Hope. I'm looking out at

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snow covered mountains and birds swimming happily
on our pond, the sun shining,

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the sky is blue. So I
just got out of the pool, the

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swimming pool myself. So everything is
great. Wow, Paradise, California.

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Yes, but it's called officially Rancho
Mirage. Okay, well, question about

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that. You know there was a
devastating fire in that area a couple of

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years ago, was your Were you
living there then? Well, yes,

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we've been living here for well over
thirty years. But the desert doesn't have

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enough trees to sustain a fire,
so we will disappoint you on that score.

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Ah Okay, well you know,
but then again, every time I

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turn around for a couple of years
there it seemed like California was on fire

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for three years. But anyway,
we're not here to discuss that tonight.

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Again. I'm super pleased and I
want to talk to you about this book.

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And the first thing I want to
ask you about directly is, well,

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I guess the title the Final Analysis. Does this mean we're not going

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to see any more publications from you? You're done with your research. A

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lot of guys I've known over the
years have said, whether they meant it

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or not, was another thing to
be seen, but have said this is

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it. You know, Mark Lane
put out the last Word, sent me

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a nice letter, you know,
around that time when you put that out.

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Walt Brown said, when I did
that massive chronology, I'm done.

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He's published a couple of books since
then. You know, does this mean

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done? Has published several dozen fiction
books since then, and included me in

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several of them, including his forthcoming
one in June. I was wondering if

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that was gonna come up. Were
you in the Mickey Mantle one? Were

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you in that one too? Or
I believe so? Okay, so these

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are side stories, but that's great. I did not know that you were

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included in those books, you know, because I'm only glanced at them.

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I mean, I'm still working on
reading the Chronology thirty thousand pages, right,

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But it's a joke. I have
gone through it all now, but

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it took me a while you know, I got it on CD a while

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ago. Anyway, that's not the
point. We're not here to talk about

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Walt, although shout out to you
Dr Brown too, thank you for that,

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no problem. But the final analysis, are you done? I mean,

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do you think that this is everything
that you're gonna have to say or

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is there still more stones to be
overturned for you? I look at myself

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now as being in semi retirement insofar
as the JFK work is concerned, but

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I've started work on another book which
is not directly related to the JFK business.

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Okay, well, look, I
mean I'd love to see what else

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you decide to write, and uh, you know, interesting choice of co

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author Jerome Corsi. And you know, like I said, I also want

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to in the future, I really
do want to talk to you about this

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other really really excellent piece of work. And not saying that this one that

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we're talking about tonight is bad,
but this other one is remarkable in format,

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style, everything, even illustration color
illustrations, which the current book that's

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a really have. Yes, the
current book is the illustrations are black and

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white, that's true. But look, I mean, you know the printing

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cost anymore? I understand, you
know, I mean, like the why

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is it that Bob wants You know, Bob Roden wants a hundred bucks for

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a book because it costs so much
to print a thousand pictures in it kind

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of means that you need to spend
that much to get that book out.

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Anyway, back to back to you
again the final analysis. All right,

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so do we have a solution in
this book? Am I am? I

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jumping ahead to the end sometimes do
you have a solution to the crime?

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Or what do you mean by the
final analysis? I'm stuck on the title.

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Still, Well, those three words
are actually taken from several of JFK's

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press conferences, where he often wrapped
up the interview by saying, in the

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final analysis, this is how it
stands. So it's a direct quote from

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many of his press conferences. Yes, well, I mean, and I

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recognize that as well. Oh that's
very good, because not everyone does know

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a lot of people, as a
matter of fact, inadvertently, a lot

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of people without realizing it, I
believe consciously that are constantly reading material related

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to President Kennedy wind up using that
phrase. Actually in the final analysis,

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I hear it in conversations, and
I recognize and go, you know what

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this is. You've been exposed to
so many of his speeches, yes,

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and various other things. I mean, you know, if you're like me,

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you listen to the private tapes and
you've gone through you know, dictations.

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I told you a little story about
a dictation that I actually re recorded

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for a presentation before we went live
here. But anyway, he uses that

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phrase all the time. That's one
of his phrases. And I notice again

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that if people are researching him,
either for the purposes of the assassination or

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otherwise, you know, there's other
reasons to research President Kennedy, they might

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start using that phrase because they're so
often exposed to it. So no,

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it makes perfect sense to me that
that's what it means. But it could

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have several meanings, right, I
mean, that's sure the nature of you

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know, alliteration, reference, sub
reference, and homage when it comes to

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titling something. So anyway, so
we begin with the title, but let's

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get into the purpose of it.
What inspired the creation of this book after

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you had put out this other fairly
substantial I mean, this is not a

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thin book, you know, this
other one before. It seems like you

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put out a very large amount of
material, very carefully and thoughtfully assembled.

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I mean, what inspired you to
do the final analysis? So soon after

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that book, well, Jerry Corsi
proposed that we do a book really more

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intended for the lay public. That
was not the purpose of the previous book.

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Previous book was designed for the cognate, sent to you, the people

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who knew a lot of things about
the case. But this book is more

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of my story, my personal story
of how I got into this and what

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steps I took to do the measurements
at the archives. And I even brought

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my five year old and six year
my five and seven year old into the

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story. So it's a little more
personal, and it is written at a

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lay public level rather than as a
textbook. So this was Jerry's idea,

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and of course I understood that my
previous book wasn't really designed for the lay

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public. That was never my intention. So I totally agreed with his assessment

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that we needed something for the lay
public. I think we've known that for

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a long time, right, and
every few years there needs to be a

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new one. Indeed, because Jfkane, The Unspeakable was like this, It

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was a good introduction book. Jim
Douglas did a very good job on that

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one, and that was very accessible
to the uninitiated. Let's say this other

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one is definitely more for if you're
familiar with the the minutia already. Let's

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expound upon that and that makes sense. So okay, that's the reason for

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it. But let's get into that
story, that personal story a little bit.

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Should we begin with the National Archives
and a little problem you had going

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in there to go and get permission
to examine certain materials, or should we

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begin with the you had a little
bit of a visual issue which I can

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sympathize with, empathize with going in
Where should we begin with this story to

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give people a taste of it,
not the whole thing, because we want

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to buy the book were good?
We could begin at the breakfast table when

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my children were five years old and
seven years old. And since I'm director

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of Radiation Oncology, I don't have
a lot of spare time. So there

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I am at the breakfast table looking
at the X ray images as printed in

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David Lifton's book, and I keeping
at this apparent cross section of a bullet

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inside of JFK's right eye socket,
and I said to myself, you know,

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this is so obvious. There's no
way they could have missed it.

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But they did miss it. Nobody
saw it at the autopsy. There were

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dozens of people looking at the X
rays, which are up on a public

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view box. Nobody saw it,
Nobody ever discussed it, And when the

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pathologists were asked about it during the
RB in the nineteen nineties, they each

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one independently denied ever seeing anything like
that. So how is it possible that

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this thing pops up in the X
rays years later but wasn't there originally?

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Well, really quickly, let's describe
that scene. Right, Gerald Custer and

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I think the other guy's name was
Reid were being run back and forth by

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the doctor who was in charge of
the X rays, you know, constantly,

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go develop this, bring it back, go develop, bring it back.

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And in fact, if you look
at this stuff at the National Archives,

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you can see pencil marks on it
and stuff like that from where it's

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allegedly being pointed to and exhibited here
for the doctors to see. And they're

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having the doctor who is in charge
of the X rays I'm using Layman's terms

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here point to the other doctors.
This is what I see because it's an

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area of expertise to be focused on
the X rays. Right, So there's

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a whole other doctor they're interpreting to
the three you know autopsy doctors, right,

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Fink, Boswell and Humes. Look, here's what we see in this

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X ray. Here's what we see
from this side, here's what we can

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find. And allegedly this is them
looking for bullets. And meanwhile, there's

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this obvious object in the X ray
that they should have been looking for during

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this whole event, right, but
they missed it. So I said to

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myself at the breakfast table, how
obvious is this? I wonder if my

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seven year old could spot this right
away? So I said, Chris,

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come over here, look at this
picture. Can you find the bullet?

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And he looked at it and he
said, yeah, is that it?

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He pointed right at it. So
my seven year old, who I had

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not really trained in radiology, he
had no trouble seeing it. But nobody

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could see it at the autopsy.
So I decided to take it one step

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further. My daughter, who's only
five years old, was sitting across the

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table didn't see what we were doing. So I said to her, mereth,

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come over here, can you find
it? So she marched around the

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table and she looked at it,
and she looked at me and she said,

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well, what's it supposed to look
like? And I said, well,

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it's white, and she said,
oh, there it is. So

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my five year old, who also
had no radiology training, had no trouble

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finding this. But we're supposed to
believe that three pathologists and dozens of people

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there and one radiologist could not see
this. So I had the chance on

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the telephone a few years later to
ask the radiologist, John Eversaw about that

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thing. I said, well,
there's a six point five millimeter a parent

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cross section of a bullet there.
Can you tell me whether you saw that

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on the X rays that night?
And just like that, our whole conversation

206
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totally stopped. He never said another
word about the Kennedy assassination. So up

207
00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:31.720
to that point, you're having a
friendly conversation with somebody. I was on

208
00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:37.799
for about fifteen minutes. And of
course the transcripts in one of James Fetzer's

209
00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:41.200
books you can read it might be
an assassination science. I think I think

210
00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:45.240
it's in Murder and Daily Plaza.
Oh, Murder and Daily Plaza. Okay,

211
00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:48.559
I stand corrected, but I do
know. Yeah, that transcript is

212
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:50.840
in one of those two books.
And there you go. I mean,

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00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.600
this is a guy who you could
have a friendly conversation with anyway, because

214
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you're eat in my specialty. For
God's sake, of course, that's my

215
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.759
point. He's in your field,
your specialized my field of radiation oncology.

216
00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:08.840
But that night he was playing the
role of a diagnostic radiologist. He was

217
00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:14.120
the only one who was there.
Well, because obviously that's better than no

218
00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:17.000
expertise, and what are you going
to do rely on texts? Sure?

219
00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:22.200
No, but okay, so yeah, and the conversation stopped, so obviously

220
00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:27.879
there had to be something to this. The curious thing is that during our

221
00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:33.879
conversation he told me that he liked
to write mystery stories. Really, yes,

222
00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:38.399
that was his hobby. Yeah,
maybe maybe him and I Howard Hunt

223
00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.720
could have gotten together. I mean, he likes spy novels. How about

224
00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.440
a spy Yeah. I think the
git it off very well. So okay,

225
00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:49.240
sorry, I sometimes make piece of
sides. It's fun, but but

226
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:53.120
let's get back to the seriousness here. So in your field, you see

227
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something and also you can demonstrate it
by having a five year old basically play,

228
00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:00.480
you know, the game that some
of us grew up with on Sesame

229
00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:03.599
Street. They used to do this
thing. I'm in my fifties. I'm

230
00:17:03.599 --> 00:17:08.200
going to be fifty two on Sunday, you know. So Sesame Street used

231
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to have this game called which one
of these things doesn't go with the other?

232
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If you see something out of place
here in the X ray, I

233
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.440
mean, that's the point of what
was going on there that night. Let's

234
00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:25.519
find the objects. Let's find the
foreign objects here in the X ray.

235
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.319
Right, So, all right,
that's part of what's supposed to be going

236
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.039
on. You talked to eversall,
so we started at the kitchen table.

237
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.839
Where do you go from there with
this? Well, I knew then that

238
00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:40.039
I had to go to the archives
to do some serious work with this.

239
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:44.839
Okay, so you can come to
my training in radiation oncology. I knew

240
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:51.000
about optical density, which is just
a very simple technique of measuring the transmission

241
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:57.119
of light through X rays at a
given point. So if an object is

242
00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:03.440
looking white like this cross section,
it'll transmit a lot of light and you

243
00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:11.119
can actually effectively measure or calculate how
long this object is from front to back,

244
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.079
and we're looking from the front on
the front of JFKX ray, so

245
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:21.480
we could calculate pretty closely how long
this would be. And I could compare

246
00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:26.359
my measurements, for example, to
the optical density of all the mercury silver

247
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:33.680
amalgams that Kennedy had, and he
had more than four on each side.

248
00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.359
So it turned out, if you
believe these measurements, which have been confirmed

249
00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:44.319
by Mike Chesser, this so called
cross section was longer from front to back

250
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:49.160
than all of those mercury amalgams lined
up in a row. H that's preposterous.

251
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:53.599
Well, that's a ridiculously long projectile. Yeah yeah, but what was

252
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.920
even worse You couldn't you couldn't see
it on the lateral X ray. So

253
00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:03.039
how is it possible for a piece
of metal that long not to show up

254
00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:07.039
on the lateral X ray. That's
ridiculous. That's not the universe I live

255
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:10.559
in. My only guess would be
moon Rock, I don't know, you

256
00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:14.200
know, yeah, maybe off world, because it doesn't make sense when you're

257
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:18.319
talking about what you're saying is that
each one of these, a different type

258
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:23.240
of metal has a different density obviously, right. Sure, So if you're

259
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.799
dealing with silver, that's one thing. If you're dealing with lead, that

260
00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:32.000
as yet another thing. Lead I
do believe is more dense than silver.

261
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:36.680
Again, I don't claim to be
a scientist, but just you know basics

262
00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:41.119
here. Mercury is very dense mercury, and that's that's what was in the

263
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:47.640
dental amalcoms with silver. Okay,
and yet this thing is more dense than

264
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:51.720
the mercury. Yeah, it's effectively
longer from front to back than all of

265
00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:55.279
those mercury silver amalgams lined up in
a row. So it should have been

266
00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:59.599
flagrantly obvious on the lateral X ray. But yeah, it's not there.

267
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:08.480
So one would have to posit that
either the object was removed in between X

268
00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:12.720
rays or it was put in place, depending on the order of the X

269
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:18.480
rays. Well, we actually have
comments from the technologist about that, Okay.

270
00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:25.559
They said that they took the let
me see if I get this right,

271
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:32.799
they took the lateral X ray first, as I recall, so it

272
00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:37.920
should have been on there, but
it's not right. So given that the

273
00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:42.359
lateral X ray went first, that
means that the only thing that one could

274
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:47.200
surmise here is that an object was
placed in there after the lateral X ray.

275
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:51.640
Yeah, you have to have this
crazy scenario where somebody sneaks in between

276
00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:56.960
these two X rays and puts this
object on Jf's case skull somewhere. Wow.

277
00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:02.359
Okay, right, that's that's how
ridiculous this is. That that is

278
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.720
across the world I live in.
Well, and it doesn't make sense,

279
00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:10.640
like there's no benign explanation for that. Like you know, for instance,

280
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:15.160
there's this practice I I read about
at one point where these guys would put

281
00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:19.359
a metal object in an X ray
on purpose, uh, in order so

282
00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:26.119
that they had a point of measurement
like that on JFK's X rays. Right,

283
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.039
okay, so that's not what we're
talking about. They did do that,

284
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.720
but it's totally unrelated to the issue
I'm talking about with that cross section

285
00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:37.759
in JFK's right, I thought,
right, right, so what do you

286
00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:41.240
what do you come up with that
that? What? What is your Obviously

287
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:45.920
this object was added later, right, added later, So that's why nobody

288
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:53.559
saw it that night. So you
have a post operation on the X ray,

289
00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:57.279
okay, yes, And we have
pencil lines on the X ray which

290
00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:03.119
still already alluded to. These were
placed by John Eversall by his own admission,

291
00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:08.960
when he later in early December examined
these same X rays at the White

292
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:12.400
House. He was specifically called there
to look at the X rays, and

293
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:15.680
while he was there, he drew
a pencil line on the X rays.

294
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:21.319
And I saw that pencil line.
It's only on one side of the X

295
00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:23.880
ray, so that has to be
the original. It's not on the other

296
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:27.279
side, so that this is the
original. This is what John Eversall did.

297
00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:33.079
Well, So you whoever put that
object on that X ray did it

298
00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:38.480
between the autopsy and Eversall's visit,
and so it happened within a few weeks

299
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:45.319
after the autopsy. We know that, okay, And again you know this

300
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.680
is kind of astounding. What does
this mean. It means that clearly evidence

301
00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.200
has been tampered with. In my
mind, you had to get permission in

302
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:57.599
order to view the original, the
original articles here, the original you know

303
00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:02.240
X rays at the archives, right. You had to go through that process

304
00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:04.400
as well. I had to apply
to Burke Marshall, who was then the

305
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:10.400
Kennedy family attorney, and he took
his good time thinking about this. I

306
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:15.240
suppose he investigated me, but it
took him twelve months to investigate me before

307
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:18.240
he finally let me in. Wow, okay, a year, Yeah,

308
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.440
it was a whole year. Well
you imagine that. I don't think it

309
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:26.759
would take a year to find out
that you're a doctor, You've been a

310
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:30.200
notable doctor for a long time.
I think they could have looked through a

311
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:37.200
directory or a phone book and probably
found you and verified who you were pretty

312
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.920
easily, even back then. What
year was this, by the way,

313
00:23:42.279 --> 00:23:45.720
nineteen ninety three, ninety three,
Okay, so you know we're not talking

314
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.599
the Internet age. So it didn't
take a couple of keystrokes on Google.

315
00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:53.240
But it was something that was relatively
easy to do, especially for a lawyer,

316
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:57.240
to find out if somebody is legitimately
a doctor. And that's the whole

317
00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:02.400
thing, right, it's supposed to
be legitimately for research purposes, that you

318
00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:07.880
are a qualified person to view these
things. That's allegedly the criteria, right,

319
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:12.279
That's correct. And I hadn't written
anything about JFK at this point,

320
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.359
so there was nothing for him to
find. He didn't know what my political

321
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:21.160
views were, he didn't know anything
about my views of the assassination, so

322
00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:26.480
there wasn't really anything to investigate.
Well, I guess it takes a year

323
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.240
to figure that out. All right, So this is the journey to the

324
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.680
National Archives and you find this out. But this isn't the only thing you

325
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:37.599
found out examining this material at the
archives, right, No, I found

326
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:45.799
several other crazy, totally illogical,
unphysical things, both in the photographs and

327
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.720
in the X rays. Well,
you want to give us a couple of

328
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.319
broad strokes, obviously, not everything
that's in the book, but a couple

329
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.880
of broad strokes about what you were
finding and how you were finding that,

330
00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:02.240
if you don't mind. So on
the lateral X ray, there are two

331
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:07.279
of them. There's only one frontel, so that just gives us three extant

332
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:12.279
X rays. Although the radiologists and
the technologists both both told me they took

333
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:18.279
more X rays than three, So
obviously, if you trust their memories,

334
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.640
both of which were given to me
independently, some X rays have disappeared.

335
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.400
So all we have now are three. So now we're going to focus on

336
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:27.960
the two lateral X rays. Right, you just really quickly, all references

337
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:33.279
to the X rays do not amount
to there should only be three in existence.

338
00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:37.599
There were many taken the folks who
were there who did this. So

339
00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.799
there were five or six altogether,
including oblique X rays, which would be,

340
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:45.359
you know, something that I would
have insisted on as the radiologist.

341
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.559
So that makes a lot of sense. What is an oblique X ray exactly

342
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:53.640
taken at an angle between the front
and the side I see? Okay,

343
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:56.640
I just want to, you know, clarify for people listening, what's an

344
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.599
oblique X ray. Okay, So
we have the full frontal, we have

345
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:06.240
the side view and oblique, so
you have different angles that this should be

346
00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:08.680
the way it should be done,
so you get sort of a panoramic view

347
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:14.839
of say the skull just to begin
with, and also the body. There

348
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:17.839
should be body X rays as well, shouldn't they? There are, but

349
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:22.920
we've focused mainly on the head X
rays. Okay. So on the two

350
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:30.279
lateral X rays on each of them, there's a surprisingly transparent area behind the

351
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:34.799
ear on both of them. There's
a lateral from the right and the lateral

352
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:37.960
from the left, but behind the
ear on both of them, this area

353
00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:42.000
is very transparent in books, in
prints, that is, it looks white,

354
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.799
whiter than it should look. So
I was really keen to measure these

355
00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:52.279
areas using optical density, and it
was totally beyond anything I've ever seen in

356
00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:55.960
any patients. So I measured a
lot of patients and duct de sills,

357
00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:03.000
and I measured nineteen cases that he
he collected the X rays from the forensic

358
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:07.359
examiner's office and we did measurements on
those too. I have never seen any

359
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:11.920
area like this on any living patient, and we didn't see anything like this

360
00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:15.119
on those nineteen forensic cases. Well, let me just ask you an odd

361
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:21.119
question here, because there's some discussion
about what type of machine was used.

362
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:25.480
There was a portable X ray,
a portable GE machine made in Milwaukee,

363
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:29.799
right, and you know, some
people have stated that the quality of the

364
00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:33.400
X rays might have been bad because
of the nature of this machine, that

365
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:40.799
really they should have utilized. They
had much better X ray equipment on premises.

366
00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.920
They should have utilized that instead of
this thing. Do you have any

367
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:48.359
thoughts on any of that. Yeah, I've discussed this in great detail in

368
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:53.160
some of my work. I've measured
the transmission, that is, the optical

369
00:27:53.160 --> 00:28:00.519
density through the area around the skull
where there's essentially air. I've done this

370
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:04.079
for the head and the chest and
the abdomen and All these exposures are entirely

371
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:11.720
normal ranges. There's just nothing wrong
with them. That kind of talk is

372
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.519
just totally useless. Okay, fair
enough. You know, I'm asking this

373
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:19.000
question just as you know somebody who
is not necessarily familiar with these things,

374
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:25.319
and I'm just figuring out the people
who say the opposite have done zero measurements.

375
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.960
I've done zillions of measurements. Well, right, let's talk about that,

376
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:30.960
I mean before we get into the
because I want to talk about the

377
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:37.279
operation you went through here with the
machine and going over this thing. Really,

378
00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:41.319
I guess millimeter by millimeter, you
know, No, no, tenth

379
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.400
of a millimeter, tenth of a
millimeter, sorry, Mike. Grasts were

380
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.680
taken at tens of a millimeter steps. In other words, for that cross

381
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:53.880
section of a bullet, I took
over sixty measurements and going from one side

382
00:28:53.880 --> 00:29:00.359
to the other over sixty measurements.
Wow, okay, So give people idea

383
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:02.599
about that. I mean, how
long did it take you to do that?

384
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:06.880
By the way, well, I
was there nine days all together over

385
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:11.119
the years, so each time I
was there is essentially a full day with

386
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.000
just a break for lunch. So
just a break for lunch and you're just

387
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:21.119
taking measurements the whole time. Yeah, measurements after measurements, and collecting three

388
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:27.839
notebooks just full of data. So
ultimately, this is only one aspect that

389
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:30.480
I mean, you've studied other aspects
of this, but I mean the X

390
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.680
rays. You started in the place
where you should, the place that you're

391
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.559
most familiar with, right, and
you go over this and I mean,

392
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:42.759
what is it that you know besides
this bizarre object that really shouldn't exist in

393
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:48.200
the X ray but does and is
for some reason not present when it should

394
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:52.759
be. And then another time is
present, you know, all seemingly out

395
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.119
of order, things like this,
and you know you're looking at something that

396
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:00.440
was in you know, in people's
hands time. Like you said, you

397
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:04.759
got a pencil mark on one side
of it, which matches up with exactly

398
00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:08.759
what the doctor said he was doing
that night. Makes sense, he's pointing

399
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:15.000
at it showing things like that scene
I described. What else did you discover

400
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.880
about these original materials? And then
maybe we can move into the photographs a

401
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:21.920
little too. Well, we have
to say a few more things about those

402
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.359
lateral X rays. Sure, I
called this area of the white patch because

403
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:29.599
that's literally what it was. It
was added in the dock room, and

404
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:34.640
so in print it looks like a
white patch. Anything that dense because it's

405
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:38.799
white, it's got to be very
dense. So it's telling us that it's

406
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:45.079
either a very dense bone or something
like mercury that's a liquid at room temperature.

407
00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:52.440
That's even more ridiculous. But the
optical density measurements suggest that this whole

408
00:30:52.519 --> 00:31:00.000
area behind the ear is almost totally
bone. So I've said that if you

409
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.240
really believe this, you would have
to say that JFK was a bonehead.

410
00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:11.079
But it's worse than that, because
if there's a fairly large area like that

411
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.680
that's mostly bone, then if you
look at the frontal x ray, you

412
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:19.960
should be able to easily see that
very large area of bone behind the air.

413
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:26.640
But it's not there. It's not
there, so you have that's not

414
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.680
the world we live in. If
you change the X ray from the front

415
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.519
to the side, the bone's not
going to vanish on the frontal view.

416
00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:37.799
It has to be there, right, the bone or lack thereof right,

417
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.480
I mean, it's not there on
the frontel. So where'd it go?

418
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:45.960
Did somebody sneak in between those two
films? And take out all that bone.

419
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:49.039
Of course, that's ridiculous. Yeah, that and I have heard you

420
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:53.400
make that statement. You'd have to
think JFK is a bonehead and what But

421
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.640
what you mean by that is you're
you're talking about an area of the skull

422
00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:01.839
which should be housing other things things
is just entirely made of bone. Is

423
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:07.759
that? Literally? When almost almost
entirely made of bone? And specifically I

424
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:12.519
compared it to the area around the
ear that's the petrus bone, which is

425
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:15.720
the densest bone in the human body, and the measurement showed that it was

426
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:21.440
almost as dense from one side to
the other, left to right as the

427
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:24.279
petrance bone. Is that makes no
sense. There's no room. There's hardly

428
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:29.079
any room left for brain in that
case. Right, Well, that's that's

429
00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:32.039
the point, is that whole area
would then there's no room for in the

430
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:37.000
cranial vault for the brain, you
know. But on the frontal view,

431
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:38.759
we know that there's a room for
the brain, so that the two views

432
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:44.519
are totally inconsistent. See, that's
the thing, it's extremely inconsistent. Does

433
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:50.000
the frontal view strike you as legitimate? And yeah, yeah, the frontal

434
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:54.720
view strikes me as legitimate. That's
JFK skull. It's also JFK skull in

435
00:32:54.759 --> 00:33:00.960
the lateral. But somebody, probably
John Ebersol that six point five millimeters cross

436
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:06.079
section on the front X ray and
then he got cute, got carried away,

437
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:08.359
shouldn't have done this, but he
added the white patch on the back.

438
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:15.400
And the impression left is that the
back is full of tissue, whereas

439
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:19.559
the front of the skull looking on
the lateral X ray is very dark.

440
00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:22.799
So it suggests that the brain is
missing from the front. And you would

441
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:27.559
then conclude that the brain blew out
of the front because it was shot from

442
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:31.599
the back. So brain and bone
missing from the front is what this is

443
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:38.759
meant to look like with completely intact
rear. Mostly intact rear, okay,

444
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:43.519
mostly on the lateral X ray,
on the lateral X ray right, But

445
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:49.759
then the front to back X ray
is inconsistent with that. So they they're

446
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:53.400
telling they're telling us two totally different
stories. That's not how the world works,

447
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:55.680
No, not at all. I
mean, obviously, if you have

448
00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:00.880
a you know, a disruption of
the skull, you should see it from

449
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:05.599
one way a certain way, and
from another way a little different. You

450
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:08.159
know, like if you have the
disruption on the one side, and that's

451
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:12.039
the other thing. By the way, if it's taken the lateral, it's

452
00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:16.000
taken from one side and then the
other. Right, does that appear to

453
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:20.360
be consistent? Did the two laterals
appear to be consistent with each other?

454
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:25.280
They are consistent with each other,
except for the white patch. The densities

455
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:30.960
are not the same or even close. It's because the fakery that went out

456
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:36.639
in the dark room was not consistent
from one side to the other. You

457
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:43.239
needed a very precise clock so that
you got the same exposure when you added

458
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.840
this white patch. And obviously John
Eversoll wasn't careful about that. He was

459
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:51.519
careless. But of course he was
even more careless when he added that six

460
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.639
point five milimeters cross section on the
front lacks ray. He way overexposed that

461
00:34:54.639 --> 00:35:00.039
that wasn't necessary. Right, So
what happened when these were dansd you know,

462
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:04.960
during the time of the House Select
Committee. What happened during that time

463
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:08.440
period when they actually went in and
did the enhancements. Well, the reason

464
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:14.920
they did that is because if you
try to publish these things in books and

465
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:21.320
you have to use the prints,
it's very hard because of the extreme range

466
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:27.159
of density to get useful images.
So that's one reason that they had to

467
00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.639
enhance them to make that possible.
But they did something else that was really

468
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:37.840
criminal. I would say on both
the frontal and the lateral X rays,

469
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:45.039
you can appreciate a long trail of
bullets, a long trail of bullet debris,

470
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:50.800
I should say, I think this
is most likely mercury. From a

471
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:57.360
mercury bullet. It starts high in
the right forehead and goes three quarters of

472
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:02.159
the way back to the rear,
and then it just stops. I think

473
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:07.119
that did not exit, but we
can see that clearly on the X ray,

474
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:14.159
and most of the fragments, and
especially the smaller ones, are toward

475
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:19.320
the front. So that strongly suggests
a frontal bullet high on the right forehead.

476
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:24.880
Okay, because the fragments would begin
to be lesser as the projectile travels.

477
00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:30.199
If it's leaving behind fragments, they
would and the larger ones would travel

478
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:32.840
the greatest distance, and that's exactly
what we see. The largest fragment in

479
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:37.880
that trail is closer to the back
of the head, the smaller ones are

480
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:39.920
in front. Right now, this
is what some people have described as like

481
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:45.119
a snowy sort of pattern that goes
out exactly right and not at all characteristic

482
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:50.280
of the six point five millimeter mannech
or carcnel bullet. They don't break up

483
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:54.280
like that, No they don't.
They're specifically designed, according to the Geneva

484
00:36:54.360 --> 00:37:00.199
Convention with the jacket to pass through
soft tissue and things like that, not

485
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:04.719
fragment as they travel through the body. That that's part of the that's part

486
00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:07.480
of the accords that are there,
you know, regarding weapons and war,

487
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:14.119
if I if I remember correctly.
So so again we have a real problem

488
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:19.920
here for the pathologists because in their
official report that is not what they described.

489
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.760
Instead, they describe a bullet trail
coming in low on the back of

490
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:31.880
the head where it's where it's actually
almost five inches higher than that. So

491
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:39.440
they totally displaced this trail in their
report. That's not something that even my

492
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:45.360
seven year old son would have done. He would have immediately seen that as

493
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:50.280
nonsense. So this was not a
mistake. This was a deliberate obfuscation of

494
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:55.159
the actual data. A complete inconsistency
again not only between the X rays,

495
00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:02.400
but then the descriptions and the use
of the X ray supposedly to describe something

496
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:07.960
in written form, they describe something
that's entirely not present on the image.

497
00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:15.719
All three of the pathologists agreed with
this mislocation. That's not a mistake.

498
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.280
There's no way that's a mistake,
right because one guy, Okay, he's

499
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.199
not familiar with I mean, people
have brought this up over and over again

500
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:28.679
that Fink is the only one who
was actually familiar with this type of work

501
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.760
when it comes to figuring out where
bullets might have come from and examining autopsies,

502
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:36.880
as he had done previously with the
army. Because remember, Fink is

503
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:39.320
the guy for the listener. Fink
is the guy that was brought in later.

504
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:44.800
Initially he got Humes in Boswell,
and Fink shows up a little late,

505
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:49.360
right, But he's actually the only
one who's got some training regarding gunshots

506
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:52.800
and what to look for when it
comes to autopsies, if I remember correctly.

507
00:38:53.760 --> 00:39:00.360
Well, Humes was actually fairly experienced
himself because he conducted the weekly brain

508
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:06.639
cutting sessions at Bethessa Hospital. He
was responsible for that, and presumably he

509
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:10.519
did that nearly every week as a
training tool for the residents and medical students

510
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:14.800
who were there. Well, so
he should have had a good deal of

511
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:20.760
experience with head trauma. Well,
head trauma possibly, but gunshots are pretty

512
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.440
specific. You know, we don't
know how many gunshot cases he did.

513
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:29.079
Unfortunately, we can't really comment on
that, right, But generally, the

514
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:31.360
way I understand it is that think
you could say, though, was more

515
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:37.800
familiar because yeah, visited us all
the time, right, So familiarity wise,

516
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:40.400
I mean, think was there was
a reason why they brought him in.

517
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:44.360
You know, they brought the Army
guide to the Navy hospital, right.

518
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:49.960
So okay, moving on though through
your story, Right, you have

519
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:52.840
these inconsistencies, You have this stuff, and you gathered it over the course

520
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:57.760
of a couple of years. Nine
visits, you said, right, nine

521
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:00.960
visits all together, nine one a
full day each one a full day.

522
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:05.960
So as you're collecting this, what
are you doing with it? I mean,

523
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.639
what are you deciding to do with
it? What are your thoughts about

524
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:14.440
what you're going to do with this? Well, the ninth visit was especially

525
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:19.920
remarkable because I saw things that I
had missed on my first eight visits.

526
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:24.960
Okay, So on one of the
lateral X rays, which is not in

527
00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:29.960
the public domain, I can't show
it to you or printed in any of

528
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:37.480
our books. It's not available.
Okay, there is a T shaped inscription

529
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:42.599
like the letter T, lying on
its side. It's not a piece of

530
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:47.400
metal. The only way it could
have gotten there is somebody scraped emulsion off

531
00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:52.079
one side of the film. I
don't really know why they did that.

532
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:58.519
Nobody's ever commented on doing it,
but somebody at the autopsy must have done

533
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:04.039
that, maybe just as a personal
marker that I was there. I did

534
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:07.360
this, but nobody's ever said anything
anyway, there it is. There is

535
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:13.079
a T shaped inscription on one of
the lateral X rays, so that means

536
00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:17.360
that the emulsion is missing. If
you could have looked on the other side,

537
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:21.840
the emulsion would be there. These
are double sided emulsions, I should

538
00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:24.360
make clear, so the emulsion should
be present on one side, but not

539
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:30.159
on the side of the T shaped
inscription. So in my ninth visit I

540
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:35.000
realized this finally, I had missed
it in my eight first eight visits.

541
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:42.239
So I had Steve Tilley take the
X ray film out of its transparent plastic

542
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:47.639
cover so that I could actually observe
the emulsion directly without any intervening surface,

543
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:55.760
and I was amazed. Both sides
have intact emulsion. There's no emulsion missing

544
00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:05.000
anywhere. That was like a gunshot
to me, because it means it can

545
00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:08.960
only mean one thing, that these
are copy films. A copy film would

546
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:15.280
retain the memory of that t shaped
inscription from the original, but because nobody

547
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:20.079
had scraped any emulsion off a copy
film, it would still have intact emulsion

548
00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:23.440
on both sides, and yet it
would still show the original image. So

549
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:29.519
that's a copy film. But that's
not what the National Archive says, as

550
00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:32.599
I clarified in a follow up letter, their claim is that all these X

551
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:38.280
rays are originals, and I swear
that one cannot possibly be an original.

552
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:43.119
That's a copy film, just based
on the fact that it's got the emotion

553
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:45.920
on both sides. Yeah, that's
all it takes, Okay, nothing more

554
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:52.199
than that. And I remember coming
out that just shaking my head and going

555
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:57.400
to dinner that night with my wife
and my children. My son, Chris

556
00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:01.519
was fifteen years old at the time, and so I started excitedly explaining to

557
00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:07.039
him and he said, stop,
I understand, just like that. He

558
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.440
immediately understood what that meant, right, But most of my colleagues in the

559
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:15.239
research divinity are not that sharp and
they still don't understand it. Well,

560
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:17.719
No, it makes perfect sense.
As a matter of fact, I think

561
00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:23.760
I've seen an illustration printed where you
you printed or someone printed on your behalf

562
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:30.519
alongside of what you wrote a representation
to it to show people what it is

563
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:36.840
you're you're talking about, and with
the explanation exactly as you just laid it

564
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:42.119
out now, and with a little
more detail, even exactly this. So

565
00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:45.400
I don't know why as somebody doesn't
get it, I don't. It's it's

566
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:49.239
it's an oddity though, because I'm
trying to think of what would be the

567
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:53.280
greater purpose for doing this and allowing
this uh, this letter T to exist?

568
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:57.840
Why is there a copy film?
What would somebody do with the original?

569
00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:04.280
Unless you were making a composite of
some kind, And therefore the only

570
00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:07.039
way to do that would be to
do it on a copy of the film,

571
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:09.639
not on the original. Instead of
altering the original, it would be

572
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:15.519
easier to make a copy where you're
adding something together, like if you're combining

573
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:20.199
to let's say, whoever did this
T shaped inscription, I think did it

574
00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:25.800
quite innocently. He had no idea
what it would later prove to mean well,

575
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:30.960
fair enough, but it's our best
guest because we don't know necessarily who

576
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:35.559
did that, I mean right,
So probably one of the technologists that that

577
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:38.280
sounds right, you know that that
makes the most spe typically do that in

578
00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:40.920
an xt right department. Well,
do you think that they would have done

579
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:45.320
that because they were ordered to make
a copy? Would that be the thing

580
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:50.039
to do? I mean, because
look, it's difficult to go through the

581
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:53.639
statements of you know, mister Custer
through the years, right, because they

582
00:44:53.760 --> 00:45:00.639
evolved, they change a bit,
so it's hard to maintain exactly what happens

583
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:06.400
step by step with him. And
you know, I'm not I'm not I

584
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:12.639
like your suggestion. It is possible
that Custer did that before he actually copied

585
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:15.320
the film. We don't know for
sure, for example, whether John Eversall

586
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:21.199
actually knew how to copy films.
Most radiologists probably didn't know how to do

587
00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:22.559
that. I had to learn how
to do it when I got into this

588
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:27.119
game, and I was able to
make fakes of my own, that is,

589
00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:31.519
fake X rays with strange objects on
them. So it's possible that Eversol

590
00:45:31.639 --> 00:45:36.360
actually did ask Custer to do this
and may have maybe and maybe Custer did

591
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:38.599
this on purpose? We don't know. Yeah, didn't you at one point

592
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:43.559
like make a fake with a duck
in it or something? Yeah? I

593
00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:47.960
made a bird brain, I heard. Next up my classic my daughter's plastic

594
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:54.360
tracing kit which was for a tyranodon, and I use it to make a

595
00:45:54.400 --> 00:46:00.360
fake skull X ray with a tyranodon
flying around inside, and I called it

596
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:02.440
brain. Oh that's right, Yeah, yeah, it was okay, Okay,

597
00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:06.239
now I remember. It's just a
vague memory. I know I have

598
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:09.599
it somewhere that there's a picture.
Yeah, it wasn't hard to make fake

599
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:15.639
X rays in that era, but
none of the government investigating agencies were aware

600
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:20.159
of this. They were totally oblivious
to this, and they didn't know a

601
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:24.760
thing about optical density either. That
was really tragic. So, I mean,

602
00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:29.639
you've been through these things and basically
you can prove that they're inconsistent and

603
00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:34.000
there's fakery directly in the X rays, and I can show how the fakery

604
00:46:34.119 --> 00:46:37.039
was done and produce my own fakes. There you go, Uh so what

605
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:40.719
else can you ask for? There? You know, is there is there

606
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.400
more to that story? Or should
we move to the photographs? Because you

607
00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:47.320
got a chance to look at also
when when you get access to the autopsy

608
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:52.039
materials, you also got access to
the photographs which the public is semi familiar

609
00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:58.519
with because there's that Fox set of
photographs which has circulated. You know that

610
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:02.039
they came from James K. Fox
as a source at one point, et

611
00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:06.480
cetera, et cetera. Anybody would
be familiar those If you just you know,

612
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:10.360
put in a search engine JFK autopsy
photo, you'll see one of these

613
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:15.079
photos. And I'm told by more
than one person who's been to the National

614
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:20.800
Archives and had permission that you know, there are photos that are consistent with

615
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:24.280
what you see in the Fox photos. There's other photos there too, but

616
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:28.760
there are photos that are consistent with
it. And in fact, one of

617
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.760
them, which is really interesting,
shows the skull, which we've been talking

618
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:37.880
about, the skin refracted away from
the skull, and there's some argument about

619
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:42.920
it, you know, and Michael
Boden had a little trouble orienting it during

620
00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:45.639
the House Select Committee things like that, and he got he got it wrong

621
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:49.840
and he got it wrong. But
anyway, if you wouldn't mind tell us

622
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:53.360
a little bit about that and what
did you see when comparing you know,

623
00:47:53.559 --> 00:47:59.280
a photo of the skull to the
X ray of the skull. Well,

624
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:02.480
of course, the the big deal
is that the photograph of the back of

625
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:09.840
JFK's head does not show the big
hole that all the witnesses at Parkland and

626
00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:19.400
Dealey Plaza and Bethesda all saw.
Then we're talking about perhaps as many as

627
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:23.760
a two dozen medical personnel, that
is, doctors and nurses at Parkland Hospital

628
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:30.440
who were right up next to JFK. They all were quite consistent about a

629
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:34.360
big hole in the back of the
head. But the photographs do not show

630
00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:37.480
a big hole in the back of
the head. They just show the scalp

631
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:45.639
intact covering that whole area, and
it's almost totally devoid of blood, which

632
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:51.400
is by itself astonishing because the shirt
was just totally soaked, as you can

633
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:55.199
see in public images of the shirt
online, and of course we reproduce them

634
00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:59.679
in our book too, So that
makes no sense. How is it possible

635
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:04.199
that the scalp is just like it
came out of the shower. It's all

636
00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:09.119
freshly washed and clean and hardly any
blood, But the shirt is totally silked

637
00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:13.280
with blood. How is that possible? Right? And the back of the

638
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:16.960
head still looks wet in most images, even though you know, the only

639
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:21.079
thing I have to say about that
is it appears as though a gloved hand

640
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:25.800
is holding up the skin on the
back of the head. That's the only

641
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:30.440
thing I can I can make out
of that photograph, you know, to

642
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:34.760
make sense of what it is I'm
looking at is if the problem with that

643
00:49:34.760 --> 00:49:38.519
photograph. But I examined, Oh, I should make this clear at first.

644
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:47.840
Sure, every view in the photographic
set has a twin that means it's

645
00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:55.159
possible to do stereo viewing of each
view. So there are two photographs of

646
00:49:55.199 --> 00:50:02.400
the back of the head. These
are taken in quick succession chronologe and displaced

647
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:07.679
in space by just a small amount, but just enough so that you should,

648
00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:15.079
in principle be able to see a
three D view. So I spent

649
00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:20.159
a lot of time at the archives
looking at all these pairs of photographs,

650
00:50:20.599 --> 00:50:24.920
and everyone essentially gave me a very
natural appearing three dimensional view, which was

651
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:30.840
quite startling to see. Except here, except in the back of the head,

652
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:36.079
it didn't work. And the reason
it didn't work is because these two

653
00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:42.480
images are exactly identical. You cannot
get a stereo view from two exactly identical

654
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:47.599
images. So this is obviously a
photographic insert and the people who did it

655
00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:52.199
were too lazy to do slightly different
views so that you could get a stereo

656
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:58.320
view. They took a shortcut and
just struck the same image in each set,

657
00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:01.679
so the images flat, it's just
two D. But that does not

658
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:07.159
happen in the other pairs. So
that's a dead giveaway that this cannot possibly

659
00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:12.599
be a true image from the autopsy. And at that time you were able

660
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:15.960
to use what they call a stereoscopic
viewer to actually do this what we're talking

661
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:22.719
about, and this on all these
pairs, right except the back of the

662
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:28.320
head doesn't do or what the other
ones do, Okay, and that that

663
00:51:28.760 --> 00:51:31.239
is an interesting point right there.
So what do you have there? What

664
00:51:31.239 --> 00:51:36.559
do you conclude about that? Again
not necessarily being a photographic expert, but

665
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:39.519
what are you to conclude? Okay, they're the same picture. There's something

666
00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:45.880
wrong with the technique here where you're
supposed to have a slight variation, because

667
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:50.960
obviously your eyes have a slight variation. Each eye independently comes together creates a

668
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:55.440
triangulation. This is how depth perception
is realized by the brain. Is the

669
00:51:55.480 --> 00:52:00.719
two eyes come together and triangulate on
a spot and do a measurement. Okay,

670
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:06.320
It's part of the way the eye
works, and that's why it works

671
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:12.760
the stereoscopic viewing when you have these
two very very slight variations in the pairs.

672
00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:15.480
So okay, I just wanted to
explain that again just in case somebody

673
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:22.159
missed it. So where do we
go from here in your story? I

674
00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:25.159
want you to keep going. Well, what you do see on this photograph,

675
00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:30.119
on these two photographs of the back
of the head is a small red

676
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:35.719
spot which was adopted as the entry
site for the post to your bullet.

677
00:52:36.440 --> 00:52:40.039
The problem with that is that nobody
at Parkland saw such a red spot,

678
00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:45.840
nor did any of the pathologists see
a red spot. It's clearly stated in

679
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:50.320
the record. They were asked about
this and they each said, no,

680
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:52.199
we didn't see anything like that.
That's not where the bullet came in.

681
00:52:52.320 --> 00:53:00.199
That's way too high. So no
living witness at that time saw what in

682
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:04.800
the photograph. And this is a
roundish, reddish spot that's around the kali

683
00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:09.360
that could that could conceivably be a
bullet entry, but nobody saw it.

684
00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:13.760
It's about in the calik about in
the calic area of the head is that

685
00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:17.039
right, we're talking about the kalic
area. It's a lot higher than the

686
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:24.119
entry site that the pathologist identified and
with which I agree. And meanwhile,

687
00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:30.039
again we have an inconsistency with the
description from the people that are there.

688
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:36.119
Yeah, that's an impossible disagreement,
right, So you have another another disagreement

689
00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:40.480
between the written record and the photographic
or in the case of the X ray,

690
00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:43.840
well, I guess you could call
that a photographic record as well.

691
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:47.360
So you have a photographic record and
a written record which is supposed to be

692
00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:53.280
based on observations of the body itself, and these things are inconsistent with each

693
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:59.159
other. Just going down the line
again, Now here's another thing that probably

694
00:53:59.159 --> 00:54:06.079
a lot of your even well educated
listeners, are not aware of. In

695
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:13.440
the lateral photographs, we see a
wall in the background, a tiled wall

696
00:54:13.519 --> 00:54:21.400
with a telephone on it. But
we have a very detailed picture by Harold

697
00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:29.920
Redberg which places the telephone in a
completely different location. If your audience has

698
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:37.400
my book, we're talking about figure
h one that's the autopsy photograph, but

699
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:44.599
Ridberg sketches figure six' two in
case people want to compare. So I've

700
00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:49.480
concluded that either Ridberg was totally stoned
at the time he drew this sketch,

701
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:55.400
or there was some obvious manipulation of
the photograph taken from the side right.

702
00:54:55.440 --> 00:55:00.119
I mean, in the detail in
that photograph. I used to have a

703
00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:01.639
very good copy of the Fox said, I don't have them any longer,

704
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:07.239
but they I could. I could
see the grout in between the tiles,

705
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:12.559
So I mean, this is not
a poor quality photograph all the way around,

706
00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:16.079
high quality. And here's another thing
that's very curious. In that tile

707
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:22.760
wall directly superior to JFK's forehead,
there is a tile that doesn't fit.

708
00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:28.199
It's narrow than all the other ones. It's just out of place. Yeah,

709
00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:31.360
happens to be just directly above JFK's
forehead. Yeah. The only thing

710
00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:36.079
I could make out of that when
I saw that is that maybe somebody had

711
00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:38.440
patched the wall at some point,
you know, for some reason. That

712
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:42.119
was the only reason why I thought
maybe a tile was out of place.

713
00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:46.239
But it is weird. But if
you believe Ridberg's sketch, that wall wasn't

714
00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:52.360
there like that, Well there you
go see more inconsistencies. I so wonder

715
00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:59.559
that the word inconsistency didn't make it
in your book title here because there's a

716
00:55:59.559 --> 00:56:01.880
lot of them. Well, we've
also got the Zapruiter film, don't we

717
00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:07.679
Ah, Okay, so let's talk
about that. We see the black Do

718
00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:10.400
we see the large exit hole in
the back of JFK's head on the Zapruiter

719
00:56:10.519 --> 00:56:15.519
film. Actually there are a few
frames where we do. Most people are

720
00:56:15.559 --> 00:56:21.280
not aware of that, and we
discussed that in our work, and I

721
00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:28.360
also discussed it in my Zapruter Film
lecture last November in Dallas, Sorry Pittsburgh,

722
00:56:28.360 --> 00:56:35.880
but anyway, Sidney Wilkinson and I
went to the sixth floor Museum to

723
00:56:35.960 --> 00:56:39.639
look at the MPI images which were
taken from the original, well the supposed

724
00:56:39.679 --> 00:56:47.880
original Zapruter film. These are first
generation images. The extant film in the

725
00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:54.000
archives is called the zero generation,
So this is just one generation removed from

726
00:56:54.119 --> 00:57:00.559
what purports to be the original in
Washington, DC. That's actually in Maryland

727
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:07.119
now. So Sydney and I were
sitting there opposite each other at the table,

728
00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:13.199
and when I saw the black patch
that had been placed over this exit

729
00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:17.440
hole, I almost burst out laughing
because it was so childishly done. I

730
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:22.079
swear my daughter at age seven would
have done a better job of covering that

731
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:27.840
up than these so called Kodak experts. So they had to do this because

732
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:31.880
if there was any evidence that there
was a large exit hole in the back

733
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:37.440
of the head and any of the
photographic work, I think a lot of

734
00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:42.239
people would have immediately concluded that there
had to be a shot from the front.

735
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:45.519
That is, after all, with
the Parkland medical personnel all concluded.

736
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:53.320
So my basic summary is this,
All the evidence points toward a big hole

737
00:57:53.360 --> 00:58:00.679
in the back of JFK's had except
for that pair of autopsy photographs. But

738
00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:04.599
we know that we don't get a
stereo view there. And to really make

739
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:09.199
the case, we know that the
autopsy photographs have no chain of possession.

740
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:17.599
They have no prominence right because there's
a disconnect here as to where they went

741
00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:22.679
when they were being developed and everything
else right isn't now. The Department of

742
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:30.880
Defense found the camera and lens combination
that were used at the autopsy and they

743
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:37.400
delivered this to the HSCA, the
House Select Committee on Assassinations in the seventies,

744
00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:45.079
and the House Select Committee decided that
it was politically expedient to disagree with

745
00:58:45.159 --> 00:58:51.960
the Department of Defense. They offered
no argument for this. It was strictly

746
00:58:52.039 --> 00:58:57.800
a political decision, just politically,
we're going to disagree with a camera.

747
00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:00.880
They had to or their case would
have totally loaded. They would have been

748
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:04.760
left with nothing to stand on,
so they had no choice. Well,

749
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:07.599
no offense to you, but what
you just said doesn't make any sense to

750
00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:09.440
me at all. Can you make
sense to that for somebody listening to this,

751
00:59:09.559 --> 00:59:14.559
please, because I know what you're
going to say, but i'd really

752
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:17.119
like you to say it, because
it's like, wait a minute, a

753
00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:23.719
political decision is made to disavow,
to disagree with. They say they matched

754
00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:28.840
up. Yeah, the Department of
Defense says, here's here's the camera because

755
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:31.719
look it's the Navy hospital, so
the DD has possession of this stuff.

756
00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:36.000
They say, look, here's the
camera, here's the lens, this is

757
00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:39.559
the combination. That's all there is. Okay, and here you go.

758
00:59:40.039 --> 00:59:45.800
And they say, no, that's
not right, and it can't be right

759
00:59:45.320 --> 00:59:53.519
because we know these photographs are authentic. That happened. Okay. See maybe

760
00:59:53.519 --> 01:00:00.159
it's just me, But it doesn't
sound like a political decision, does it.

761
01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:04.280
It sounds like something else. Ok
People, we're an honest decision.

762
01:00:04.280 --> 01:00:06.760
And they would have said, oh, okay, so we can't trust these

763
01:00:06.760 --> 01:00:12.000
photographs because things don't match up,
so we can't trust these photographs to make

764
01:00:12.039 --> 01:00:15.840
any conclusions. That's what they should
have said, right, So we have

765
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:19.760
a lot of inconsistencies here. And
by the way, if if you the

766
01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:25.480
listener, go to themanticview dot org. There are many articles and uh images

767
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:30.960
on the website, a lot of
stuff that you've written here, and I

768
01:00:31.159 --> 01:00:36.320
just just suggesting to people that they
go ahead and check it out. A

769
01:00:36.360 --> 01:00:39.159
couple of links to this and that, a whole bunch of links at the

770
01:00:39.159 --> 01:00:44.960
bottom. Actually, I guess a
few reviews of the things you've written,

771
01:00:45.039 --> 01:00:49.639
stuff like that. A whole lot
of stuff on themanticview dot org. So

772
01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:52.639
the mantic view M A N T
I K. By the way, view

773
01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:58.239
that's all one word dot org.
And I'll put links to that and some

774
01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:02.840
other things in the show. No
for everybody, but yeah, please continue

775
01:01:02.840 --> 01:01:07.320
on. I mean, we we've
just touched on the photographs. And okay,

776
01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:10.639
so now you've looked at the photographs, you've got inconsistencies everywhere. Let's

777
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:15.679
talk about some more inconsistencies in the
photographs. Sure, go ahead, photograph,

778
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:20.559
let's talk about the photograph of the
of JFK's back, back of his

779
01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:25.320
torsehole. Okay, Now this is
interesting to me because there is something that

780
01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:29.480
you know, a layman, just
from a quick glance. You look at

781
01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:32.239
it, you say, well,
this round thing here looks like a hole.

782
01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:38.440
Right, looks like this would be
a bullet hole in his back on

783
01:01:38.519 --> 01:01:42.360
the right side, on the right
side. Yeah, you're looking at the

784
01:01:42.360 --> 01:01:46.519
photographic scapula there you go. Right, Uh so, what what about that?

785
01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:50.960
Well, that's not what I want
to focus on. Okay, sorry,

786
01:01:51.159 --> 01:01:55.039
And that's that's why it took me
nine viewings to see what was really

787
01:01:55.079 --> 01:02:00.159
important. Okay, the important fact
is on the left side. Ah see,

788
01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:04.280
I was drawn to that on the
right side initially. That's why I

789
01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:10.800
started there. That purports to be
a very shallow projectile wound. We don't

790
01:02:10.840 --> 01:02:15.039
know what caused it. We don't
have any physical evidence, but it was

791
01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:21.440
very shallow. The pathologists could only
enter their fingers or probe a very short

792
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:27.039
distance, and James Jenkins has confirmed
that he says the probe did not enter

793
01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:30.840
through the lining of the lung.
He could see the probe putting pressure on

794
01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:34.440
the lining of the lung, but
it never entered the lung, so it

795
01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:40.039
was obviously very superficial and had nothing
to do with killing JFK. But yet

796
01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:45.639
no projectile. I'm sorry, there's
no projectile associated to that wound. That

797
01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:51.199
no physical evidence, right, and
there's just this thing that appears to maybe

798
01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:53.639
be a hole. And by the
way, I read one description from one

799
01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:59.000
of the autopsy doctors saying that they
thought that it wasn't even a hole,

800
01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:02.679
that they thought it was a drop
of blood, you know, on the

801
01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:07.159
right side. Yeah, on the
right side, no, I think I

802
01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:12.679
think most people agree that that was
a wound from some kind of projectile.

803
01:03:13.239 --> 01:03:15.800
Yeah, most people would. But
I did read a description once where this

804
01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:19.480
is what was said. But anyway, let's talk about the left side though.

805
01:03:19.719 --> 01:03:22.599
Yeah, let's focus on the left
side, which nobody has ever done.

806
01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:25.360
And and me too, I'm guilty. My first age visits, I

807
01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:30.239
missed it, Okay, so there
is a real value to going there nine

808
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:35.760
times, I guess. So the
ninth time is the charm. Okay,

809
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:39.599
it's amazing. So on the on
the left side, there is what appears

810
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:45.880
to be a drop of blood reasonably
sizable, and you can see it in

811
01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:51.239
the images in our book and also
in my previous textbook, like hardcover book

812
01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:58.320
in color, which is even more
impressive. So, as I said,

813
01:03:58.960 --> 01:04:05.119
there are two images for each view. So I compared these two images for

814
01:04:05.239 --> 01:04:10.360
the left back, and they're not
the same. But I already said they're

815
01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:14.559
not supposed to be the same.
Boh, but these are two different to

816
01:04:14.639 --> 01:04:16.920
make any sense. Okay. So
one of them is a black spot,

817
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:21.880
all right. The other one is
not a black spot. It's a more

818
01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:29.639
light colored spot and it has a
horizontal line through it. So what happened

819
01:04:29.639 --> 01:04:33.039
there? Did somebody tell the photographer, stop, I've got to change this

820
01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:36.719
spot for some reason. Give me
a minute. I'm going to lighten it

821
01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:40.880
up and give me a minute more
because I'm going to draw a line through

822
01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:46.840
it. That's what you have to
propose to explain that wildly different second image,

823
01:04:46.880 --> 01:04:49.320
which is not in the public domain, so I can't show it to

824
01:04:49.360 --> 01:04:57.360
you, but I simulated it and
it appears in my hardcover book, right,

825
01:04:57.480 --> 01:05:00.719
because sometimes you've had to just you
know, create your own version of

826
01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:03.519
something that is not a public domain
not in the public domain, right,

827
01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:10.480
Okay, So obviously no one's going
to say that my described scenario here makes

828
01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:14.559
any sense. Of course it doesn't. Nobody jumped in front of the photographer

829
01:05:14.559 --> 01:05:16.800
and said, let me make this
a little different. That didn't happen,

830
01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:23.880
right, This was obviously photographic manipulation. I don't really know why it was

831
01:05:23.920 --> 01:05:29.599
done, but it was obviously photographic
manipulation. This is not an original photograph,

832
01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:33.440
it can't be. So therefore we
conclude, yeah, there was photographic

833
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:38.480
manipulation. You can see it in
the set in the National Archives today if

834
01:05:38.519 --> 01:05:43.000
you know what you're looking for.
Well, so, yeah, there was

835
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:46.800
photographic manipulation. So that makes sense
because we know the telephone on that child

836
01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:50.639
wall is in the wrong place.
That's another example of it. Now that

837
01:05:50.679 --> 01:05:56.280
we know that they are messing around
with these images, right, so we

838
01:05:56.360 --> 01:06:00.039
have various images and they're not even
consistent with each other. It's almost as

839
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:04.960
if they sent three different guys to
do this and they didn't talk to each

840
01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:11.079
other about it, because they're not
even consistent with their changes they're making.

841
01:06:12.119 --> 01:06:15.599
Yeah, let's go back to the
Zapruter film for example. Sure, as

842
01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:21.119
I said, we saw the first
generation copies of the back of JFK's had

843
01:06:21.159 --> 01:06:30.360
in the Zupruter film frame three one
seven in particular and when well, I

844
01:06:30.360 --> 01:06:38.559
should say, Sidney Wilkinson ordered a
six K scan directly from the National Archives.

845
01:06:39.239 --> 01:06:44.400
This would be something like I think
it was third generation as compared third

846
01:06:44.480 --> 01:06:47.239
or fourth generation as compared to the
first generation we saw in Dallas at the

847
01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:53.440
sixth four Museum. But even in
the sixth K scan that she has,

848
01:06:53.599 --> 01:07:00.559
the resolution is still incredible. So
Sydney has shown this to over seventy Hollywood

849
01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:05.480
experts. These are the people who
have done all the major films and restorations

850
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:13.320
that everybody in our audience would recognize. In one of them, Ned Price

851
01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:19.119
was head of Warner Brothers Restoration,
and I'm going to quote what he said,

852
01:07:19.480 --> 01:07:25.280
Oh my god, I can't believe
they made such a bad fake.

853
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:30.639
That was exactly my response when I
saw. That's why I almost laughed.

854
01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:36.159
It was too ridiculous, too childishly
done. So even ned Price said that,

855
01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:43.960
wow. And this is based on
three seventeen. Yes, that's right,

856
01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:46.360
that's the best example. But there
were multiple frames where you can see

857
01:07:46.360 --> 01:07:50.960
the black patch, and it's not
even consistent from frame to frame. If

858
01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:56.320
you look at it carefully, the
patch moves around from one frame to another

859
01:07:56.960 --> 01:08:02.719
within fractions of a second, that's
not what a real pad us. No,

860
01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:06.199
just ridiculous for certain. As a
matter of fact, I'm going to

861
01:08:06.360 --> 01:08:12.880
just drop you with my my three
seventeen Zapruder frame, uh, just just

862
01:08:12.920 --> 01:08:19.520
for you to look at later.
But the resolution in the first generation images

863
01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:25.039
we saw are vastly superior to that
of course, of course. But that's

864
01:08:25.079 --> 01:08:28.359
the thing is that there are so
many different versions of it out there now

865
01:08:29.520 --> 01:08:32.800
that it's you know, almost impossible
to tell what somebody's even working with any

866
01:08:32.840 --> 01:08:38.880
longer. But but but they actually
went and got the scan from the National

867
01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:44.560
Archives because for a while there you
had to get a contact print at your

868
01:08:44.600 --> 01:08:45.720
expense. Of course, they couldn't
just you know, put it on a

869
01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:49.520
DVD for you or something. You
had to actually go get a contact print

870
01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:56.039
of a film, which was this
whole process, and I think it ran

871
01:08:56.079 --> 01:08:59.960
about nine hundred bucks at one point. Yeah, it was pretty expensive for

872
01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:02.720
Sydney. I don't remember the exact
amount she paid, but it was sizeable.

873
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:05.600
Yeah, I mean that's you know, look for twenty six seconds of

874
01:09:05.640 --> 01:09:10.920
film, that's pretty expensive, you
know, because that's the approximate length I

875
01:09:10.920 --> 01:09:13.479
think of the Zapruder film, right, twenty six seconds. Yeah, that's

876
01:09:13.479 --> 01:09:15.840
pretty close, you know. So, yeah, it's a little a little

877
01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:23.880
rough, and it's supposed to be
the original, which well, there's problems

878
01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:27.960
there too. And Doug Horn talks
about this a lot. I mean,

879
01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:30.199
you're familiar with Doug stuff on this
too. Right, Well, if people

880
01:09:30.199 --> 01:09:34.000
are interested in the Zapruder film issue, they should look at my lecture from

881
01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:40.119
Pittsburgh last November, which is online, and the link to it is in

882
01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:43.880
the book we're talking about, so
it's all there, right right, Well,

883
01:09:43.880 --> 01:09:48.000
I was busy that week last last
year, but I did hear about

884
01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:53.760
this, And did they put it
on YouTube for you? I think?

885
01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:59.279
Or no? Yeah, my live
lecture is available online, okay, and

886
01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:02.279
the link is in the book.
And Doug Horn was there and participated in

887
01:10:02.359 --> 01:10:06.800
it as well. A lot of
this is based on his work, Okay,

888
01:10:08.079 --> 01:10:10.439
I just wanted to That's why I
thought it was good to mention him

889
01:10:10.520 --> 01:10:14.000
right there, which, by the
way, along with the reference books his

890
01:10:14.159 --> 01:10:16.359
five volumes you know, are going
to sit next to this book here on

891
01:10:16.399 --> 01:10:21.119
myself. Yeah, he's credited on
the front cover of the book for much

892
01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:27.479
of the information we learned about nineteen
sixty three. There you go and an

893
01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:31.199
incredible amount of information in that five
volumes that he put out, you know,

894
01:10:31.279 --> 01:10:35.159
and a step by step. I
mean there's one volume I think it's

895
01:10:35.520 --> 01:10:39.640
maybe Volling four is entirely devoted to
this. The Bruder film, I think.

896
01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:43.680
But you know what impresses me good. Dug's book came out more than

897
01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:47.520
ten years ago. Yes, and
I discussed this, I think in my

898
01:10:48.159 --> 01:10:53.600
previous book. I list all the
things we've learned since Doug's books came out,

899
01:10:53.680 --> 01:10:58.319
and it's really quite astonishing how little
we knew even when Doug wrote those

900
01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:02.159
books. So this case has not
stood still by any means. Well,

901
01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:05.119
that's the thing is, you know, this journey that started out at your

902
01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:10.079
kitchen table there, uh, you
know, has continued on now. I

903
01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:14.319
mean, because you were talking about
the the early nineties when you were when

904
01:11:14.359 --> 01:11:17.239
you were first examining this, and
then you made your nine trips, uh,

905
01:11:17.319 --> 01:11:20.439
you know, and later on you
would do the lectures and like I

906
01:11:20.439 --> 01:11:24.680
said, you'd been on the Men
who Killed Kennedy, Uh, you know,

907
01:11:25.119 --> 01:11:27.000
so on and so forth. And
I saw you in a couple of

908
01:11:27.079 --> 01:11:30.119
documentaries this year. I don't know
if they were using old footage or new

909
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:32.600
I think there's a mix of stuff
that went out there this year, this

910
01:11:32.640 --> 01:11:38.960
past year with you. And again, it's always always really interesting to hear

911
01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:41.760
the points that you make. Some
of them you just made right here tonight,

912
01:11:41.800 --> 01:11:45.439
and I appreciate that because this is
a great overview. But again,

913
01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:54.760
what is the additional information in the
final analysis here that the limousine we didn't

914
01:11:54.760 --> 01:11:58.319
go to right? Right? So
let's talk about that just really quickly,

915
01:11:58.359 --> 01:12:00.720
if you don't mind, I mean, yeah, I don't you have time

916
01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:02.600
yet? Yeah, yeah, Let's
go for it and cover the limousine a

917
01:12:02.600 --> 01:12:05.359
little bit. Give people an idea
of all what they can find in here,

918
01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:09.760
because I do want to recommend the
book, and I'll give you the

919
01:12:09.800 --> 01:12:13.000
link, by the way, in
the show notes, guys, would you

920
01:12:13.039 --> 01:12:15.720
prefer they go to Amazon to buy
it? Or is there somewhere else or

921
01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:18.800
no, there's just Amazon? Okay, fair enough, I'll give you the

922
01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:24.560
Amazon link to the final analysis,
which is co authored by David W.

923
01:12:24.720 --> 01:12:29.560
Mantick and Jerome Corsi, just so
you know, and again you know,

924
01:12:29.560 --> 01:12:31.479
I don't have mister Corsi here today, but I do have David Mantick and

925
01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:38.000
fascinating conversations so far and again,
I'm just pointing out some things and trying

926
01:12:38.039 --> 01:12:41.880
to walk through this experience that he
represents here because you said, this is

927
01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:46.840
about your you know, trajectory,
your personal trajectory through the case, so

928
01:12:46.840 --> 01:12:51.359
to speak. Yeah, and the
limousine also incorporates my personal experience. Okay,

929
01:12:51.399 --> 01:12:55.680
So let's talk about that, because
I usually don't see you speak about

930
01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:58.960
the limousine. In most places,
they often have you talk about the X

931
01:12:59.039 --> 01:13:02.119
rays. You're one of the few
doctors who has gotten access to those materials.

932
01:13:02.720 --> 01:13:10.399
That is a fairly limited club of
gentlemen that I have encountered that have

933
01:13:10.520 --> 01:13:15.039
actually been there to see the stuff, that got the permission from the Kennedy

934
01:13:15.079 --> 01:13:18.439
family lawyers and all that. But
the limousine, I don't usually hear you

935
01:13:18.479 --> 01:13:23.920
talk about it, So go ahead, No, this is new. So

936
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:27.920
the basic question is what caused the
throat wound. We know that it was

937
01:13:28.720 --> 01:13:33.800
a small wound. One of the
doctors described it as being about the diameter

938
01:13:33.920 --> 01:13:40.159
of a pencil, so just a
few millimeters. It was nearly round,

939
01:13:40.239 --> 01:13:45.840
and it was surprisingly smooth. The
smoothness, of of course, is characteristic

940
01:13:45.880 --> 01:13:50.880
of an entry wound and is not
characteristic of an exit wound. So most

941
01:13:50.920 --> 01:13:56.199
of us who have a little common
sense I long believe that this represented an

942
01:13:56.439 --> 01:14:00.159
entry of some kind of projectile.
The problem was, but there's no bullet

943
01:14:00.199 --> 01:14:04.319
in the case to explain this.
So what in the world did this?

944
01:14:05.680 --> 01:14:11.560
And the amazing thing is that the
pathologists never really did figure this out.

945
01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:15.279
I think to the day they died, they didn't know what caused this wound.

946
01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:24.520
So I had suspected a long time
ago that it was possibly caused by

947
01:14:24.560 --> 01:14:30.199
a small piece of glass, a
glass shard that had come from the windshield.

948
01:14:31.159 --> 01:14:36.640
That would fit the picture rather well
because windshields break up in small pieces,

949
01:14:38.239 --> 01:14:46.079
very small pieces, and the trajectory
from the windshield what we know what

950
01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:49.560
the damage to the windshield was,
So I'm talking about the trajectory from the

951
01:14:49.640 --> 01:14:57.079
damage to the windshield to the throat
is consistent with a shot from the left

952
01:14:57.199 --> 01:15:02.439
front of the limousine, possibly the
south knoll opposite the grassy gnome. So

953
01:15:02.479 --> 01:15:06.840
we knew that. We also knew
that there was a contusion, a five

954
01:15:08.079 --> 01:15:13.760
centimeter contusion where blood had leaked out
at the top of the right lung apex.

955
01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:20.960
So whatever projectile this was had gone
from that throat wound to the top

956
01:15:21.079 --> 01:15:25.439
of the right lung. In other
words, that all implies a shot from

957
01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:30.319
the left front. But there's no
projectile in the case. So when in

958
01:15:30.359 --> 01:15:33.880
the world is going on? But
a glass shard would explain this? A

959
01:15:33.960 --> 01:15:39.640
glass shard would not have exited,
It was too small to had too little

960
01:15:39.800 --> 01:15:43.800
energy to go very far, but
it could easily have gone to the top

961
01:15:43.880 --> 01:15:48.319
of the right lung and caused all
that bruising. Is there any other material

962
01:15:48.359 --> 01:15:54.319
aside from glass that you could imagine
that would be consistent with that idea?

963
01:15:55.880 --> 01:15:59.960
Now, nothing that I can reasonably
think of. We don't have any matis

964
01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:02.960
fragments in the case that would explain
it. For example, it's just a

965
01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:10.720
total desert of metal there. Now
here's another curious thing about the autopsy.

966
01:16:11.359 --> 01:16:15.520
We know that there were two tiny
holes in JFK's cheek, the right cheek,

967
01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:20.199
as I recall, two tiny holes
that were leaking fluid, and leaking

968
01:16:20.279 --> 01:16:28.239
so much fluid that the embalmbers had
to plug those holes. What was that?

969
01:16:30.399 --> 01:16:32.439
Well, if you believe the throat
wound was caused by a glass shard,

970
01:16:32.479 --> 01:16:36.159
then of course you wouldn't be surprised
to learn that there were a couple

971
01:16:36.159 --> 01:16:43.640
of more tiny glass shards that caused
those holes in JFK's cheek. So how

972
01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:48.159
many autypesies do you know of that
described tiny holes in anybody's cheek that they

973
01:16:48.199 --> 01:16:55.520
had to plug with wax. The
only is it unique it is considering the

974
01:16:55.960 --> 01:17:00.159
circumstances, because look, when you
have a death in a motorcycle accident,

975
01:17:00.239 --> 01:17:08.399
sometimes gravel gets driven up into different
parts of the body, saw tissues,

976
01:17:08.840 --> 01:17:11.600
things like that. That was the
only thing I could imagine that was the

977
01:17:11.600 --> 01:17:15.159
other material I was imagining here is
that, you know, if not in

978
01:17:15.199 --> 01:17:17.720
the limos so we can't invoke the
No, there's a problem there. I'm

979
01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:21.000
just saying that theoretically, I'm thinking
that, you know, sometimes small stones

980
01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:26.560
get embedded in the body of someone
in a motorcycle era era for the forensic

981
01:17:26.600 --> 01:17:30.119
examiner, you've probably seen that more
than once. Yeah. So anyway,

982
01:17:30.199 --> 01:17:36.199
in the nineteen nineties, Doug Weldon
accidentally, as he tells the story,

983
01:17:38.119 --> 01:17:45.760
ran into a technician from the Ford
Motor Plant who saw the windshield on Monday

984
01:17:45.840 --> 01:17:49.680
after the assassination. He saw the
limousine JFK's limousine on the Monday after the

985
01:17:49.720 --> 01:17:56.760
assassination, and he saw the windshield
the original motorcade windshield, and he describes

986
01:17:56.840 --> 01:18:00.239
where the hole in the windshield was, which is consistent with the location seen

987
01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:04.159
in the photographs taken Indie League Plaza, which we showed in our book.

988
01:18:05.399 --> 01:18:12.720
He also said that he has many
decades of experience in the glass business and

989
01:18:12.760 --> 01:18:17.560
that he swore that the hole in
the windshield could only have come from a

990
01:18:17.560 --> 01:18:23.600
shot from the front, judging from
the way the glass was broken, and

991
01:18:23.720 --> 01:18:31.960
we discussed this in detail in our
book. So Doug Wheldon's witness was actually

992
01:18:32.079 --> 01:18:36.640
reviled, I think that's the right
word. Reviled by many of my colleagues

993
01:18:36.640 --> 01:18:43.119
in this JFK case is totally unbelievable, and they did not accept it.

994
01:18:45.199 --> 01:18:49.119
Then a few years ago, I
was discussing this case with one of my

995
01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:55.119
best friends, who is my roommate
in medical school at the University of Michigan,

996
01:18:55.960 --> 01:18:59.319
and he said, oh, yeah, my dad saw the limousine after

997
01:18:59.399 --> 01:19:01.800
they brought it to Dearborn because he
worked at the fort plant. I said,

998
01:19:01.800 --> 01:19:05.159
what, your father worked at the
hort plant and he said, oh

999
01:19:05.239 --> 01:19:12.359
yeah, I was there a number
of times, okay. And it turns

1000
01:19:12.399 --> 01:19:17.479
out that his father had also seen
the windshield and had seen the hole in

1001
01:19:17.520 --> 01:19:23.680
the windshield, and he was really
really upset about this because he knew that

1002
01:19:23.760 --> 01:19:30.560
it totally contradicted the case that we
heard in the media that there was no

1003
01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:34.159
hole in the windshield, right,
And the explanations about this have always been

1004
01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:38.159
that, well, apparently, you
know, part of the because they did

1005
01:19:38.199 --> 01:19:42.640
find bullet fragments in the rug and
things like that. So they said that

1006
01:19:42.760 --> 01:19:48.880
part of the broken bullet had probably
struck high up on the windshield and even

1007
01:19:49.479 --> 01:19:53.960
part of the metal, you know, towards the top of the windshield,

1008
01:19:54.079 --> 01:19:58.720
right, and that's probably where it
came from. It was the idea,

1009
01:19:58.880 --> 01:20:01.520
and that makes some sense if you
had a bullet that broke apart upon impact.

1010
01:20:01.840 --> 01:20:05.520
It's not supposed to, as we
discussed earlier, but if it broke

1011
01:20:05.560 --> 01:20:10.159
apart on impact, it could go
anywhere, could do damage to different things.

1012
01:20:10.159 --> 01:20:13.960
It could strike the car, the
seat, people, whatever. But

1013
01:20:14.079 --> 01:20:16.319
none of these metal fragments were in
the body. They were not seen on

1014
01:20:16.359 --> 01:20:18.920
the X ray. They were found
on the floor of the limousine. Right.

1015
01:20:19.079 --> 01:20:25.920
Well talked about something else must have
caused the throat wound and the contusion

1016
01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:28.680
at the top of the right long
apex. So we have Now, we

1017
01:20:28.720 --> 01:20:34.600
have two witnesses who were there at
the Dearborn Plant on Monday, immediately after

1018
01:20:34.600 --> 01:20:40.439
the assassination. The limousine was there. Well. I always found that remarkable.

1019
01:20:40.479 --> 01:20:44.760
And the other thing is that you
don't have any damage to you know,

1020
01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:47.800
for the bullet to change the trajectory
or for the thing to break apart

1021
01:20:47.880 --> 01:20:54.399
or anything else. I don't see
evidence of damage to bones at least,

1022
01:20:54.760 --> 01:21:00.319
you know, in around the neck
like all of the uh oh it's the

1023
01:21:00.319 --> 01:21:03.640
cervical vertebrate. Yeah, seemed completely
uninjured. I don't think if there was

1024
01:21:03.680 --> 01:21:09.600
any any useful evidence there of bone
injury. And that's correct, right.

1025
01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:14.399
I can't find any in what I've
been able to view, and obviously I

1026
01:21:14.439 --> 01:21:17.039
didn't get to view the materials you
did. But I've seen versions of this

1027
01:21:17.359 --> 01:21:23.800
and you don't have damage there.
Nobody counts for any damage there. I

1028
01:21:23.920 --> 01:21:28.720
find that extremely remarkable. And the
House Committee looked at this quite specifically and

1029
01:21:28.760 --> 01:21:31.520
they agreed with you and me.
Yeah, so you know, you have

1030
01:21:31.560 --> 01:21:38.039
a very odd situation here. Now, bullets can change trajectory and soft tissue.

1031
01:21:38.039 --> 01:21:40.199
That happens. I mean, even
if you take a look at when

1032
01:21:40.399 --> 01:21:43.479
the slow motion versions of when the
bullets shot into that gel. Right,

1033
01:21:44.760 --> 01:21:48.000
there's lots of films out there of
these demonstrations. You've seen them. You

1034
01:21:48.039 --> 01:21:54.000
know, bullets don't necessarily travel in
exactly straight lines, but they don't do

1035
01:21:54.960 --> 01:21:59.239
you know, you don't have something
that passes through and strikes the windshields and

1036
01:21:59.399 --> 01:22:03.720
is in all the different pieces all
over the place that doesn't wind up leaving

1037
01:22:03.760 --> 01:22:06.439
behind. See, that's the thing. There's a cleanliness to the wound.

1038
01:22:06.439 --> 01:22:10.399
And by the way, the neck
wound that you're talking about where you think,

1039
01:22:10.560 --> 01:22:14.600
you know, you're you're theorizing about
this piece of glass. The other

1040
01:22:14.640 --> 01:22:20.039
problem there is it was obviously destroyed
because the tracheotomy. You know about that.

1041
01:22:20.439 --> 01:22:25.239
Obviously, anybody who knows this case
a little bit knows about the tracheotomy,

1042
01:22:25.279 --> 01:22:28.520
the attempts to save his life at
the time and all of that.

1043
01:22:28.800 --> 01:22:34.520
So that wound was completely mutilated at
the time of life saving measures being taken.

1044
01:22:35.239 --> 01:22:39.880
Well, that's not what the surgeon
there, Malcolm Perry said. He

1045
01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:45.319
said he left the wound in violet. That is his word. He did

1046
01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:49.319
not mutilate it. Here comes the
contradictions. Why do I say they mutilated

1047
01:22:49.359 --> 01:22:54.279
it, because look at the pictures
of the photographs show. Yeah, so

1048
01:22:54.479 --> 01:22:59.159
nothing happened Parkland and the photographs right, because if you take a look at

1049
01:22:59.159 --> 01:23:02.640
what is often referred to as the
Stare of Death photo where Kennedy's eyes are

1050
01:23:02.680 --> 01:23:06.359
open and he's on his back,
and you know, you get a very

1051
01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:11.760
clear view of, you know,
from above, of that throat wound,

1052
01:23:12.239 --> 01:23:15.399
it looks completely mutilated. And then
it gets even worse, by the way,

1053
01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:18.279
when you when you go lateral on
the body, because it appears to

1054
01:23:18.319 --> 01:23:25.039
be an evulse almost exploded. This
is gonna sound really bizarre and insensitive,

1055
01:23:25.159 --> 01:23:28.840
my apologies to anybody, but truth
is, it is almost like a Jiffy

1056
01:23:28.920 --> 01:23:32.279
pop has come up out of Kennedy's
throat and been torn open so you can

1057
01:23:32.279 --> 01:23:38.479
get the popcorn. That's how mutilated
it looks from the side in the set

1058
01:23:38.520 --> 01:23:44.199
of photographs that I had. You're
absolutely right. I even asked the radiologist

1059
01:23:44.239 --> 01:23:48.960
John Eversall about this trachiatic wound,
and I still remember the horror in his

1060
01:23:49.119 --> 01:23:54.800
voice when he said, I would
never want one like that, No,

1061
01:23:54.840 --> 01:23:57.920
because you know you can't. You
couldn't even fit a garden host. Look

1062
01:23:58.520 --> 01:24:02.760
when when you do a ttrachaea me
even an emergency trachiata like I've been taught

1063
01:24:02.800 --> 01:24:06.319
to do this. I had a
different training for a couple of things.

1064
01:24:08.119 --> 01:24:13.520
Here's the thing. You need a
tight seal for whatever it is you're inserting,

1065
01:24:13.560 --> 01:24:15.079
even if you're doing the you know
on the spot, you can use

1066
01:24:15.079 --> 01:24:18.319
a pen this kind of thing to
open up the throat because you have an

1067
01:24:18.359 --> 01:24:24.880
obstruction above it, something like this, Okay, that can't be removed otherwise,

1068
01:24:25.479 --> 01:24:29.560
et cetera. You have to have
a tight seal there. You can't

1069
01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:32.960
have a wide open hole and then
stick something very small in there to to

1070
01:24:34.159 --> 01:24:40.000
use the tube as a way of
allowing air to travel. Okay, it's

1071
01:24:40.039 --> 01:24:46.680
not possible to do it that way, right, So somebody middlelated this intransit

1072
01:24:47.279 --> 01:24:51.680
Yeah, definitely like somewhere in between
what Perry describes, because what Perry describes

1073
01:24:51.720 --> 01:24:57.199
is very sensible, a very small
incision in order so that you can open

1074
01:24:57.239 --> 01:25:02.199
it up without tearing it any further
and you the existing opening. It makes

1075
01:25:02.239 --> 01:25:06.720
a lot of sense what he says, but that's not what it looks like

1076
01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:13.199
by the time it's photographed at all. Crenshaw Charles Crenshaw, who was in

1077
01:25:13.760 --> 01:25:17.279
Er when JFK was there, also
said that what he saw in the photograph

1078
01:25:17.399 --> 01:25:23.079
is not the way JFK left the
emergency room. No, not at all.

1079
01:25:23.199 --> 01:25:27.439
I mean, and you know,
he had this very short book something

1080
01:25:27.640 --> 01:25:30.680
I believe in the title said Trauma
Room One. It was a very small

1081
01:25:30.680 --> 01:25:35.039
book, yes, paperback that he
released, which describes us in great detail,

1082
01:25:35.239 --> 01:25:40.000
what exactly the way it should have
looked. And even this year,

1083
01:25:40.640 --> 01:25:44.840
what was it. Paramount Plus put
out a what the Doctor saw, What

1084
01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:47.840
the doctor saw? Yes, everyone
shood. Everyone really interested in this case

1085
01:25:48.159 --> 01:25:54.680
should watch that documentary. It's quite
shocking, especially if you've been brainwashed into

1086
01:25:54.720 --> 01:25:58.359
the media view. Well, what's
amazing to me about this is, you

1087
01:25:58.399 --> 01:26:01.439
know, much like the Rob Ryaner
thing, you know, who shot JFK.

1088
01:26:01.960 --> 01:26:06.279
Well, in nineteen eighty eight,
Okay, NOVA did a show and

1089
01:26:06.399 --> 01:26:11.560
had these doctors on there, a
different set of doctors. The majority of

1090
01:26:11.560 --> 01:26:15.800
the doctors on the NOVA special in
eighty eight have since passed, but still

1091
01:26:15.039 --> 01:26:18.760
many of the people that were witnessed
there in Trauma Room one in the nineteen

1092
01:26:18.800 --> 01:26:23.199
eighty eight around the twenty fifth anniversary. Okay, this is the sixtieth,

1093
01:26:23.279 --> 01:26:26.319
That was the twenty fifth. This
is one of the things that actually got

1094
01:26:26.359 --> 01:26:30.640
me into the case and starting to
study it, you know, for real,

1095
01:26:30.680 --> 01:26:33.920
and actually calling up witnesses and doing
all this kind of stuff. Was

1096
01:26:34.399 --> 01:26:40.800
that special because these doctors who also
got permission and NOVA brought them in there

1097
01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:43.880
one by one. I'm sure you
recall this, right, doctor Mantick,

1098
01:26:43.920 --> 01:26:46.319
you've seen that. Oh yeah,
of course, yeah, this is very

1099
01:26:46.359 --> 01:26:51.079
important stuff. But to have this, what the doctors saw come out at

1100
01:26:51.079 --> 01:26:58.640
this time is really remarkable. People
should watch this. If you really think

1101
01:26:58.680 --> 01:27:01.640
the Warrant Commission has any truth at
all, watch this and see what sense

1102
01:27:01.640 --> 01:27:04.439
you can make out of it.
It doesn't fit with the Warren Commission at

1103
01:27:04.439 --> 01:27:09.760
all. And I mean to go
even deeper into it just a little bit

1104
01:27:09.800 --> 01:27:17.560
more. The video that was recorded
by William Matt's in law called the Gathering,

1105
01:27:17.920 --> 01:27:23.159
which is not a blu ray out
there. Yeah, there's various medical

1106
01:27:23.159 --> 01:27:27.680
witnesses come together in one place on
that blu ray and tell you, guess

1107
01:27:27.760 --> 01:27:30.640
what about the same story that we
just told you, and doctor Mantick is

1108
01:27:30.680 --> 01:27:36.079
telling you based on people who were
witnesses to what the body was like not

1109
01:27:36.119 --> 01:27:43.159
only at Parkland but at Bethesda,
you know, and and various various different

1110
01:27:43.199 --> 01:27:47.319
stops in between. Here you got
everything from you know, a basically an

1111
01:27:47.399 --> 01:27:53.720
orderly to a doctor, to people
who actually worked on the body itself and

1112
01:27:53.960 --> 01:27:58.840
were part of the life saving efforts
that were made all come together in that

1113
01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:01.039
video too. Again, I'm not
trying to just mention a whole bunch of

1114
01:28:01.079 --> 01:28:03.640
people when I'm talking to you,
doctor Mantick. I'm just saying that there's

1115
01:28:03.800 --> 01:28:09.600
other independent stuff outside of what you
have that supports a lot of the stuff

1116
01:28:09.600 --> 01:28:14.640
you're saying. William Law has done
absolutely fantastic interviews with so many of the

1117
01:28:14.720 --> 01:28:18.399
parent professionals who were at the autopsy, and I have been fortunate enough to

1118
01:28:18.439 --> 01:28:25.720
be at one of his encounters with
these people, and so I've met most

1119
01:28:25.760 --> 01:28:31.039
of them on multiple occasions. They're
all highly believable. No, absolutely,

1120
01:28:31.079 --> 01:28:34.800
And you know again, another one
of those great reference books is in the

1121
01:28:34.840 --> 01:28:40.560
Eye of History, Yes, which
I rush forward to the first edition.

1122
01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:45.920
There you have it. So anyway, with that, I think we've gone

1123
01:28:45.920 --> 01:28:48.359
over plenty tonight, doctor Mantick,
and I really appreciate you taking the time

1124
01:28:48.399 --> 01:28:51.800
to do this with me. Is
there anything you'd like to add in conclusion

1125
01:28:51.840 --> 01:28:58.319
here? Again, I'm recommending this
book the final analysis, and we discussed

1126
01:28:58.359 --> 01:29:00.720
even the title and where that came
from at the beginning of this discussion.

1127
01:29:01.840 --> 01:29:06.479
But you know, obviously we could
do this all night, going over these

1128
01:29:06.520 --> 01:29:10.720
different things and what else did you
learn and the rest of your journey,

1129
01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:14.600
and we barely got even away from
the kitchen table with you. Actually,

1130
01:29:14.880 --> 01:29:17.760
we went from the kitchen table to
the National Archives and didn't even get into

1131
01:29:17.760 --> 01:29:23.720
the rest of the journey. Because
I have one suggestion for your viewers if

1132
01:29:23.720 --> 01:29:28.039
they purchased this book, and if
you're interested in the jfk assassination, you

1133
01:29:28.119 --> 01:29:30.760
really should, and you don't have
a lot of time, or you'd like

1134
01:29:30.840 --> 01:29:36.880
to get to the gist of things
quickly, just read my epilogue at the

1135
01:29:38.119 --> 01:29:42.319
end of most of the chapters.
That will summarize things very quickly for you.

1136
01:29:43.720 --> 01:29:46.600
Right, and look the epilogues and
again I haven't read them all,

1137
01:29:46.880 --> 01:29:50.960
But have you read the epilogu yet? Yeah? Yeah, Oh, that's

1138
01:29:51.000 --> 01:29:54.680
really good because it's not at the
beginning of the book at all, it's

1139
01:29:54.800 --> 01:29:58.159
the end, we see. I
do that a lot me too. I

1140
01:29:58.239 --> 01:30:01.760
read books back, skip to the
end a lot of times and go,

1141
01:30:01.800 --> 01:30:04.600
okay, where's I want to know
where we're going? Yeah, And then

1142
01:30:04.640 --> 01:30:09.119
it's like, Okay, now show
me how we got there. Uh that's

1143
01:30:09.359 --> 01:30:12.079
I don't know why my mind works
that way, but that's what I do.

1144
01:30:12.399 --> 01:30:15.880
Yeah, But I think the epilogue
is a really good summary of everything

1145
01:30:15.880 --> 01:30:17.840
we've talked about here. Yeah.
Absolutely, Well. I tried to hit

1146
01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:21.239
most of the key points, but
not bring everything in, obviously because I

1147
01:30:21.279 --> 01:30:25.560
want people to read it. But
I wanted to bring in some of the

1148
01:30:25.640 --> 01:30:29.000
key points, some they might have
heard before. And uh, you know,

1149
01:30:29.359 --> 01:30:30.960
I remember Doug Weldon and I didn't
know what to think of that,

1150
01:30:31.039 --> 01:30:34.359
to be honest with you, No, And I think the whole research community

1151
01:30:34.439 --> 01:30:38.880
was kind of baffled by that.
But there's no need to be. It

1152
01:30:38.920 --> 01:30:43.760
was it was the truth. It's
it's just it was so strange for him

1153
01:30:43.800 --> 01:30:45.800
to have come up with that,
and it was like, I don't know,

1154
01:30:45.840 --> 01:30:49.000
it just was aut of place with
everything else. I couldn't put it

1155
01:30:49.039 --> 01:30:53.920
together with the rest of what was
going on there. It required an amazing

1156
01:30:53.960 --> 01:30:58.920
coincidence. So I spend a lot
of time in my previous book reviewing all

1157
01:30:59.000 --> 01:31:03.800
the incredible incidences that have occurred in
my own life and discussed a little bit

1158
01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:10.840
about how probable some of these things
are well, it's an amazing uh Man.

1159
01:31:11.079 --> 01:31:14.479
By the way, in the future, I definitely want to discuss this

1160
01:31:14.680 --> 01:31:20.119
other very large, very densely illustrated
book, very colorful book. Colorful.

1161
01:31:20.560 --> 01:31:25.359
Yeah, and and and we didn't
even talk about the Harper fragment. We

1162
01:31:25.399 --> 01:31:28.600
didn't talk about you know, there's
a lot of stuff here we could go

1163
01:31:28.680 --> 01:31:33.159
over. H and I hope in
the future we can do this again and

1164
01:31:33.479 --> 01:31:36.720
again. If you go to let
me just make sure I've got the website

1165
01:31:36.720 --> 01:31:41.640
correct, because I don't want to
screw that up at all. The manticview

1166
01:31:41.840 --> 01:31:45.119
all one word dot org. Okay, yes, and if you go over

1167
01:31:45.159 --> 01:31:50.479
there, you can definitely find links
to books, presentations, a discussion about

1168
01:31:50.479 --> 01:31:57.600
how the title of this textbook really
this decoded book changed titles at one point.

1169
01:31:58.560 --> 01:32:00.239
Who knows. Maybe maybe the original
one is a collector's item. I

1170
01:32:00.279 --> 01:32:04.319
don't know how many of them got
out there many but you know, either

1171
01:32:04.359 --> 01:32:09.840
way, I am really impressed by
that book, even more so than this

1172
01:32:09.920 --> 01:32:13.800
one. But the final analysis again
not done with it, so who knows,

1173
01:32:13.840 --> 01:32:15.119
Maybe I'm going to be even more
impressed once I get you know,

1174
01:32:16.039 --> 01:32:19.359
from the beginning to the epilogue,
which I'm still in the midst of getting

1175
01:32:19.399 --> 01:32:23.159
there. Yeah, well, thank
you for your kind words. I should

1176
01:32:23.159 --> 01:32:29.000
add just this little bit. In
the first week after this book became publicly

1177
01:32:29.039 --> 01:32:32.920
available on Amazon, it sold four
thousand copies in just one week. Right,

1178
01:32:33.319 --> 01:32:36.279
well, hopefully we add to that
a bit, you know. I

1179
01:32:36.319 --> 01:32:40.680
hope we do. Yeah, thank
you for this opportunity, absolutely, and

1180
01:32:40.720 --> 01:32:43.399
I want to thank you again for
joining us, and thank you guys for

1181
01:32:43.479 --> 01:32:46.319
listening, because look, at all
times, I'm trying to examine these things

1182
01:32:46.439 --> 01:32:50.000
and I wanted to have doctor Manticon
for a long time. So I'm really

1183
01:32:50.000 --> 01:32:54.439
glad that I had the chance to
do this tonight. And I hope you

1184
01:32:54.479 --> 01:32:57.479
guys got a lot out of it, and we'll get more out of it.

1185
01:32:58.000 --> 01:33:26.199
And yeah, go get these books. Uh step getting ready, get

1186
01:33:26.239 --> 01:34:30.359
ready for And you're showing a fact. This is James Corben at Quorter Report

1187
01:34:30.359 --> 01:34:33.720
dot com and you're listening to the
Olly Affected o'slly dot com. Go ahead,

1188
01:34:33.760 --> 01:34:38.319
call it is given the truth about
the Javey assassination. Right, well,

1189
01:34:38.359 --> 01:34:42.439
what do you want to know Baker's
wild claim Oswald girlfriends you knew Ruby

1190
01:34:42.439 --> 01:34:45.920
and Barry Hanty weapons. Really,
I imagine I could claim I have four

1191
01:34:45.920 --> 01:34:48.159
wheels. It doesn't make me a
wagon, but okay, Oswald was on

1192
01:34:48.239 --> 01:34:51.199
the job and trying to prevent the
murder of John Kennedy. Come on,

1193
01:34:51.319 --> 01:34:55.399
now, has it real effort on
the day of pay assassination? Book into

1194
01:34:55.439 --> 01:35:00.760
Reclaim. Go to Amazon dot com
enter Judith Baker in her her own words.

1195
01:35:00.920 --> 01:35:03.600
You'll get the results for a digital
copy of a book where Walt Brown

1196
01:35:03.800 --> 01:35:09.760
utilizes her own words and the known
evidence in the case to get at well

1197
01:35:10.359 --> 01:35:14.399
a different perspective. Let's say you
can get Judith Barry Baker in her own

1198
01:35:14.479 --> 01:35:18.520
words from the author himself signed if
you request it by contacting doctor Brown at

1199
01:35:18.600 --> 01:35:24.520
k I as jfk at aol dot
com. It's a fun book and it

1200
01:35:24.640 --> 01:35:30.920
actually dissects the many, many fantastic
claims Judith very Baker in her own words

1201
01:35:32.119 --> 01:35:34.760
to use expressed my callers. School's
there anyone else who happens to get on

1202
01:35:34.760 --> 01:35:39.039
the air of Jelly dot com if
not necessarily reflect views of Jelly dot com

1203
01:35:39.119 --> 01:35:42.520
or JOCKO Chilly And we are not
responsible for any stupidity which might ensue.

1204
01:35:42.640 --> 01:35:47.239
Thank you in denial. The Secret
Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks by Larry

1205
01:35:47.319 --> 01:35:54.159
Hancock. Secret wars became a staple
of US covert operations and are still happening

1206
01:35:54.239 --> 01:35:58.960
today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial
rips the cover off many of them,

1207
01:35:59.239 --> 01:36:01.880
using new five else it exposes things
about the Bay of Pigs that no one

1208
01:36:01.960 --> 01:36:05.960
has ever written about before. It
shows why it really failed and why the

1209
01:36:06.079 --> 01:36:11.399
United States did not learn from it. It also shows why other countries today

1210
01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:15.960
are doing secret operations with more success. This is the book that puts what

1211
01:36:15.279 --> 01:36:21.359
some want to deny into the light. In Denial secret wars with air strikes

1212
01:36:21.479 --> 01:36:28.800
and tanks Larry Hancock. For more
information, go to Larry hyphen Hancock dot

1213
01:36:28.920 --> 01:36:31.920
com. Pick up your copy of
In Denial at Amazon dot com. In

1214
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Digital or Physical Force, The War
State by Michael Swanson explains the great national

1215
01:36:36.840 --> 01:36:42.159
transformation that took place and put the
Kennedy presidency in the context of the times

1216
01:36:42.439 --> 01:36:46.880
and revealed never before published information about
the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would

1217
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not have been assassinated if he had
been president two hundred years ago. His

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assassination took place in the context of
the Cold War and the rise of the

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01:36:55.960 --> 01:37:00.720
national security state before World War II. The United States was a continent republic.

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In the decade that followed it became
an imperial superpower. Generals such as

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01:37:04.319 --> 01:37:09.319
Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade
Cuba, but knew that there were short

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01:37:09.439 --> 01:37:13.880
range missiles on the island arn't with
nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because

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01:37:13.880 --> 01:37:16.640
they were on mobile launchers. Their
invasion could have led to a Third World

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War, and they wanted to go
to war anyway. The War State by

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01:37:21.000 --> 01:37:26.439
Michael Swanson reveals why, and we'll
show you what President Kennedy was up against.

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01:37:26.680 --> 01:37:30.359
For more information, The War State, dot Com, dot Com,

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01:37:30.720 --> 01:37:45.640
Radio Net, Wallstreet Window, dot
Gold Silver, the stock Market, Wall

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01:37:45.800 --> 01:37:51.920
Street Window dott. Perhaps you're invested
deeply, Perhaps you're not in deep enough.

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01:37:53.119 --> 01:37:58.439
Maybe you're thinking about getting started,
Wall Street Windows, Condo com.

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01:37:58.920 --> 01:38:03.159
Michael Swanson, the author of the
War State, understood these trends professionally for

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01:38:03.279 --> 01:38:08.960
many years, and now he gives
you the benefit of his knowledge. Wall

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01:38:09.079 --> 01:38:15.960
Street Streemo, Dott go there,
now go there, now go there Now

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01:38:15.279 --> 01:38:18.760
revelation through conversation, Oh Chili dot
com