WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:27.320 Weird things happened in the back yard. Weird weird. Wow, Hey guys, 2 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:30.879 welcome to Bledsoe said, So, I see you waving over there in 3 00:00:30.920 --> 00:00:36.960 the back Nick. Everybody in the in the virtual world likewise, I mean, 4 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:39.560 we can't see anybody, but you know, I'm pretending, man, 5 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:42.399 I'm imagining I can see them. Yeah, we can feel you. Yeah, 6 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:46.159 we can be so tonight we have Mike Clellen with us. Mike and 7 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:49.799 I go way back. We've known each other. I can't put my finger 8 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:52.119 quite on it. It's close to ten years now. I feel like it's 9 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:57.240 eight ten years Okay, yeah, ten years, yeah, spring, it 10 00:00:57.280 --> 00:00:59.359 was right around this time he or something might be ten years to the day. 11 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.119 I could probably figure it out. I looked at my calendar, but 12 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:06.319 always in North Carolina. I was in North Carolina visiting my sister, and 13 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:15.079 your father had just done a podcast with the site called Veritas. Oh yeah, 14 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.599 I remember that. I was. I just called your dad up, 15 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:19.959 called him up on the phone. He was in the phone book, lady. 16 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:23.079 He answered the phone like, hey, he had no idea who I 17 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.239 was. Can I come and visit? And he said, sure, come 18 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.400 on over and uh. And that was the same weekend that um he met 19 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:33.840 Chase Letsky. Also, remember I didn't know she was going to be there, 20 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:38.159 so and I had already interviewed her on my podcast, so there was 21 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:42.159 a dense little thing. So yeah, wow, I didn't realize y'all were 22 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:45.000 there at the same time. I mean, as time goes on, you 23 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:49.200 know, memories things like that you tend to forget. But um, yeah, 24 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.840 so I distinctly remember you being there, and you was your book, 25 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.439 Um was your first book out? Nope, not yet, No, it 26 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:00.920 wasn't out to twenty and fifteen. So this second time I came there was 27 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:05.319 with my partner at the time, Andrea, and then we were there for 28 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:14.319 my sisters daughter's wedding, so it would have been my niece's wedding, which 29 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:19.120 was in Davidson, North Carolina. Okay, cool, and Andrew and I 30 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:23.599 just drove over and spent the well we spent we were there for night. 31 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:25.759 We spent the night there at the house. Yeah. No, I definitely 32 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:30.439 remember, and you had camping gear and you were I just my vivid memories 33 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:35.400 of you from all those years ago was like very devoted camping nature man, 34 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:40.039 who's who's very much into owls and synchronicities and the paranormal. And I really 35 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:44.280 want to pick your brain about owls because I'm not sure if you've had the 36 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:47.759 chance to read my dad's book, but there's at least three different occasions where 37 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:53.120 he's had some very bizarre experiences with owls. And um, you're the owl 38 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:57.400 man. I mean you're you're the guy who, the one guy I know 39 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:00.719 who when you google owls, you know in the parent it pops up. 40 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:06.639 So um, I'd love to talk as much as you would enjoy. You 41 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:09.919 laid me, You're not gonna so I yes, I within this funny little 42 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:15.120 sox of the UFO researchers, I am well known as the owl guy. 43 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:17.479 I did not pick that moniker. It picked me. Um. And then 44 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:21.599 I'll also say that, uh oh yeah, I'm very very familiar with your 45 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:27.360 father's owl stories. In fact, he this is going back probably twenty twenty 46 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:38.719 two nineteen, so just three years ago. So I interviewed. Did we 47 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:42.400 lose everyone? And I'm back? Yeah? There your father for that website. 48 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.919 Oh should I start over? Yeah? Please? And for the listeners, 49 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:49.800 apologize, we are having a little delay. We're trying to do our 50 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:53.560 best with it. So if you wouldn't mind running that back? Where was 51 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:59.919 I? So I your father has had more owl experiences, then there's a 52 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:01.919 couple people out there. I'm one of them, And there's a few people 53 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:04.879 out there kind of them on one hand, really that have had a lot 54 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:09.639 of owl experiences. Your dad is right there on the list, and I 55 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:15.199 have to think that's filtered down into you and your siblings and family and such. 56 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:19.240 But um and I did a podcast where I interviewed your father only on 57 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:24.759 his owl experiences. Just as owl experiences, and there's like a bunch of 58 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.519 them that are like they're kind of like they seem like a kind of throwaway 59 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:32.040 events like this owl showed up this and it was like there was one where 60 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:39.800 he was like a neighbor had a had a tree. There was a windstorm 61 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:43.199 and a tree kind of fell and kind of was pinned to the roof and 62 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.240 he climbed up on the roof with a chainsaw. And then when he got 63 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:51.079 to the like they can had to like put the ladder on the top of 64 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:56.000 the roof and then climb up to the tree. And there was an owl 65 00:04:56.120 --> 00:05:00.279 that landed in the tree and everyone went like all those buddies were there with 66 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:03.720 a truck and Jane saws and ready to rip this tree apart. And and 67 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:08.279 and he went climbed on the ladder. Everyone felt the same thing, like, 68 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:12.160 don't you go up on that ladder. Everyone felt it, so no 69 00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:14.519 one had to explain it to anyone. No one had to say, you 70 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:16.279 know, the owl is kind of a symbol of something for boating, so 71 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:20.519 everyone just like knew it intuitively. Everyone went to get off the ladder, 72 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:25.639 and so he downclimbed the ladder and then they did a whole thing where they 73 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:28.600 tied the ladder up special ways and rigged it this way and that way, 74 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:33.319 and and when he did cut the tree, it likes I can't remember exactly 75 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:38.639 the story, but you know, the the tree was tilted on and he 76 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:42.040 was the ladder was there, and then when the tree it like bucked and 77 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:46.040 the ladder slipped off, and your dad was tied on somehow. So oh 78 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:51.759 wow, yeah really yeah, well so yeah, so it's it's totally right 79 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:58.600 there, dead center as far as the the lore of the owl, right, 80 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:01.240 don't there's no flying saucers or UFOs or anything like that connected with that 81 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:08.040 event, but there certainly was that ominous presence. I feel like I feel 82 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:13.040 like owls just like have that presence. It's really wild. But like when 83 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:15.879 you see an owl, especially when you see an owl in the wild, 84 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:23.439 it's like stunning, like and it's it's unexplainable, but I mean it is. 85 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:29.040 It feels like it feels unless you're the owl guy, yeah for sure. 86 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:30.920 But I mean, like, you know, I saw one just recently, 87 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:34.240 just within the past couple of weeks, and it's probably been years since 88 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:39.079 I've seen an owl, and every time I see one, it's almost like 89 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:41.759 a shock. It's like, you know, you can't even explain it. 90 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:45.240 I'd love to know what your thoughts are on that kind of that feeling. 91 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:49.040 Oh, every it's a universal everyone. So so you could do it right 92 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:55.439 now google UFOs owls and my name is gonna be the first thing that comes 93 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:58.480 up, and then about the next twenty five things below that is going to 94 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:00.720 be me. Um, you don't have to do it, but I mean, 95 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:04.079 oh yeah, there are so so if anyone any and that's been that 96 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:10.680 way for over a decade. Wow, Like before I was even like yeah 97 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:15.040 I was so, I was archiving and putting stuff on my website and writing 98 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:20.040 about owls and UFOs starting around two thousand and nine. Wow, so what 99 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:24.920 happened? I just got one like minutes ago. So I get and your 100 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:29.920 father must know what this feels like like, or you're running website, so 101 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:31.839 you must know a little bit what it feels like. But I'm getting like 102 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:34.920 the people who are reaching out to me have had UFO and owl experiences. 103 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:39.839 There's a little fluctuation where they might have had some other thing or some owl 104 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:43.519 experience that was mystical but not with the UFO, or some UFO experience that 105 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:47.360 was didn't quite have an owl. But I'm but anyone anywhere in the world 106 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:51.839 if they have never heard of me, if they had a UFO and owl 107 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:58.240 experience co joined, they're gonna there. I'm like two mouse clicks away and 108 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:01.680 they get you the guy. They and I say red top of my website, 109 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:03.160 I say, I want to hear your owl stories, and they send 110 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:07.759 them to me. So so I it's tough to come up with a number, 111 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:11.959 but you know, many thousands, yeah, like, and I only 112 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:15.160 count the good ones. Like if there's a lot of people who say, 113 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:16.240 I saw this owl in the fence, it was so pretty, and I'm 114 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:20.279 like that's all well and good, but it's not going in my files. 115 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:26.879 So but uh yeah, so what your question was. Your question was what's 116 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.399 the mythos of the owl? And so even the person who sees the owl 117 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:35.879 on the fence, it says the same thing like, oh, like it 118 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.200 was an honor. Oh it was so majestic. Oh, it had an 119 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:43.080 ominous presence. All these things are you know these they had a mystical feel 120 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:45.720 to it. Then, boy, will you see a bunny rabbit in the 121 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:48.840 backyard. You don't get that feeling, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 122 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.440 yeah, So an owl has got a majestic presence. And I would 123 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.519 argue that one of the reasons it has a very strange presence is because owls 124 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:00.600 don't have um Like I can turn, I can turn my eye and I 125 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.320 can look right and left with my eyes. Owls can't do that. Owls 126 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:07.600 owls, their eyes are locked in position and they have to turn their head 127 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:13.679 right and left in order to look around. So they have a weird presence 128 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:18.879 because they cannot turn their eyes. It's very Once you understand that, then 129 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:24.480 you realize like, oh that is unsettling. But there's something just about their 130 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:28.080 look about how their eyes move or don't move in their head is very unnerving. 131 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.440 Yeah. Yeah, I always knew that they could, like they could, 132 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:35.159 you know, turn their heads all the way around. I thought I 133 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.600 always thought that was just like a preference thing. I didn't know they actually 134 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:48.840 couldn't move their eyes. And there's their spine and there there it's it's partial. 135 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:50.320 It's I did. There's a chapter in the book on the on the 136 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:58.000 physiology of the owl. So their spine allows for what's called like heads very 137 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:01.120 good head stable as like when an owl turns its head. You know, 138 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.200 some birds are kind of twitchy, you know, you see like a gyroscope 139 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:07.559 like well like a well, it doesn't it's not like quite like a gyroscope, 140 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:13.799 but but sort of where it's eerily smooth and um, they actually have 141 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:16.159 and they can turn their head all the way around facing back. They can't 142 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:20.679 turn it three sixty. They can turn it around a face completely backwards. 143 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:24.879 What it does is it pinches off the blood vessels to their to their brain, 144 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:30.080 and they have in so we have jugular veins. They have jugular veins 145 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:33.840 too. If we try that we sees up our jugular veins, wouldn't get 146 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:37.440 any blood to our brain. When an owl does that, it has a 147 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.960 special reservoir that stores up the fresh blood. And then when they do straighten 148 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:46.440 their head back up, their blood is flooded with fresh blood. So they 149 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:50.799 have special Yeah, very strange. And then what it's what So what we 150 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.639 have where we get our stabilization is from our ear canal, like our ear 151 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:58.440 right, that's how we that's how we stay balanced. Woods in the ears. 152 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:03.039 Yeah, that's how we can stay balanced and ride a bicycle. So 153 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.679 the owls have that same thing, and that's what they're they have, that's 154 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:13.960 what they use to keep that ear steady. So an owl, so when 155 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:18.559 owl can fly at night in what would we would consider absolute complete darkness, 156 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:24.720 they can fly through the forest between branches in on a starless night, on 157 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:26.679 the darkest night of the year. They can do it comfortably, no problem 158 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:30.879 at all because of their big eyes. They have that much ability to see 159 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:37.919 into the dark. And then they and when they hunt, what they are 160 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:43.080 doing, they are flying over they are flying through the forest, and their 161 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:50.440 feathers are so highly attuned. Their feathers have there's a ridge on one side 162 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:54.120 that's kind of downy along one ridge and then it's sharp on the other don't 163 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.080 ask me how it does it, but it baffles the noise in flight. 164 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.679 So if you it. This is another thing people say all the time, 165 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:05.039 like an owl flew right over my head. I didn't hear it. Yeah, 166 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:07.720 like you can hear other birds. You can flap and pigeons and ravens 167 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.519 and stuff like that ton of noise. But owls are what would be completely 168 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:20.799 silent to our ears. And they fly at night and they listen for mice 169 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:26.919 on the ground. Right, So they're flying, they're listening. They can 170 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:31.360 target the noise of a mouse on the ground and then they lock their eyes 171 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:35.159 on that spot and then that's how they hunt in complete darkness. So yeah, 172 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:41.600 they're amazing. They're wildly special. Yeah, really cool animals. Um 173 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:45.559 yeah, anyway, go keep going. So you asked the question was why 174 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:46.840 do they have a mystique? And oh, yeah, they certainly do. 175 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:54.320 Yeah. Yeah, they are spectacular creatures for sure. So I'm very curious 176 00:12:54.360 --> 00:13:01.720 about like the mythology of bowel, the spiritual mystique. So so right, 177 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:07.080 So every culture has a slightly nuanced different mystique or let's say folklore or mythology 178 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:11.240 about the owl. For instance. Um, so what I just said before, 179 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:15.399 the owl can fly in the forest at night, in complete darkness, 180 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:20.799 and that like go back to ancient man. Every everyone would have understood that 181 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:24.080 about an owl flying at night, flying in the darkness, it would have 182 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:28.159 seemed magical to ancient man. Now we are like sign. You know. 183 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.559 Biologists can say, oh, their eyes are especially tuned, they have heightened 184 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:39.799 hearing. But the mythology would be that the owl. So we live in 185 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.879 a land of electric light bulbs, right, forest isn't scary anymore, right, 186 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:46.600 we can just light up the forest. We can go in the forest 187 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.080 with flashlights. We can, you know. But there was like not that 188 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:56.080 long ago, like my great grandfather's age, there was no electric light bulb 189 00:13:56.840 --> 00:14:05.159 the night at it completely different mystique. And so the owls in flying into 190 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:09.639 the night became a metaphor, became a they were magic. I mean still 191 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:16.080 like that that what they're doing. Now obviously there's biology that allows them to 192 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:18.120 fly at night, but wow, it's magic in many ways. So they 193 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.480 all would fly into the darkness. That became a metaphor for flying to the 194 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:26.600 land of the dead, flying to the land of the ancestors, flying to 195 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:35.720 the land, flying to that other realm or other place, and you take 196 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:39.720 that one step further and it they come back with a message. Right. 197 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:43.080 So, when I was working on the first book, I had to pick 198 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:45.919 a title for the first book. And what was happening is I was getting 199 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.200 letters from people. And it still happens, it just but at the time 200 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:52.799 I wasn't. I didn't do anything. It was just happening organically. People 201 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:54.960 would send me letters and they would say, oh, this owl landed on 202 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.840 the fence, and my grandfather had just died, and I had these paranormal 203 00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:00.879 events in my life. And when I looked at the fence, the messenger 204 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:05.840 told me my grandfather was fine. So I'm paraphrasing roughly, but people would 205 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:11.039 call the owl the messenger. The messenger was at my window. Everyone was 206 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.159 calling it that, not everyone, but enough that it was recognized as a 207 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:22.879 pattern. And so so I just that's that's the ancient Lord. That is 208 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:28.799 the ancient Lord. The owl flies into the darkness, travels to another realm, 209 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:31.960 whatever, you know, like that changes depending on if you're Christian or 210 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.679 Hindu, or or if you're a you know, living in the plains of 211 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:39.399 South Dakota and a you know, but it comes back as a messenger. 212 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:46.559 Now that's the ancient mythology, so present day, the most popular series of 213 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.720 books in the history of publication is Harry Potter. I was gonna say it, 214 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:56.879 Potter. Harry Potter has an owl that delivers the mail, the messenger. 215 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:02.559 It is perfect, it is per wow. I never this is is 216 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:06.120 that's present day? Wow. Right makes a lot of sense. And my 217 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:11.519 I wondered, so jk Rowling as owl in her name, but so don't 218 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:18.840 start that One's that one's more how my quirky brain works rather that Yeah, 219 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.919 yeah, right and better. So, so, like the question is I 220 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:26.840 would love to ask her, right, did she did that happen organically? 221 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.200 Did it happen spontaneously? Did it just like oh, I'll just like that 222 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.720 felt like the right animals, so I'll put it in place for there. 223 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:38.039 Or did I doubt that you think she was a student of mysticism enough that 224 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:41.320 she would have Yes, I think we've done a whole episode on Harry Potter, 225 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:45.320 and like, I don't want to derail the owl conversation. You know, 226 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:48.600 aside from the fact that the surface level of Harry Potter is witches and 227 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:52.519 wizards and wands, and spells. When you dig beneath the surface of of 228 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.519 you know, the fantasy aspect of it, there's a lot of real world 229 00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.840 esotericism and a cult packed into it, some massa symbolism, templar myth stuff 230 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.440 like that. Like I have no doubt my mind, that's intentional. Yeah. 231 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.880 You even look at the first book, you know, it's the Philosopher's 232 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:12.759 Stone. It's an extremely occult symbol it's in mystic lore, and it's like, 233 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:18.160 you know, I mean, every book is jam packed full of deep 234 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:23.160 occult stuff. It seems pretty apparent that she was at least like intrigued and 235 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:29.599 in that kind of yeah, if not very very well studied on it, 236 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:32.839 because there's some deep stuff in Harry Potter. Yeah, like there's a textbook 237 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.720 in the in the series written by a lifeish Levi. But anybody out in 238 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:38.279 you know, out here in the real world, if you know who that 239 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:42.000 is, that's that's a very uh prolific name in the in the occult world. 240 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:45.160 So she's she's definitely packing some secrets in there. Okay, good, 241 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.039 good, Well that's good to know because I'm my I was, It's to 242 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.400 me it would be more fun if she didn't know, and it just happened 243 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:56.400 organically. But that I certainly it certainly happens sometimes where people will put an 244 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:00.000 owl in fiction and it just happens. Um, did you ever read Slaughterhouse 245 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:04.599 five? I've read it. That's a fantastic book. I ready, yeah, 246 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:08.519 Yeah, it's a it's like it was. It's easy to find a 247 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.480 garage sales. It was. It's like came out I think in nineteen sixty 248 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:18.880 eight, might be sixty nine, And um, story it's World War two, 249 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.960 correct, it's like it's it's The author, Kurt vonigut Is, is 250 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:26.640 dealing with his traumatic memories of being a prisoner of war in World War Two. 251 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:32.920 He was in Dresden and was locked in a a meat locker. They 252 00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:34.319 didn't have anywhere to put the prisoners, they just locked him in a meat 253 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:38.839 locker. The Americans came and bombed the city and when made their way out 254 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:41.920 of the meat locker, the city was gone, just flattened level. Everyone's 255 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:47.960 dead. So it's a really nightmare story. But he uses this this science 256 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:52.599 fiction platform where the character that was Billy Pilgrim is the name of the character, 257 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:57.880 is like gets abducted by aliens and because he's abducted by aliens. He 258 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:02.640 has his vault back and forth through time. So the story has this kind 259 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:07.960 of jumping narrative where he's going jumping back and forth in time. But when 260 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:11.400 he gets seducted by a flying saucer, there's a line I can I'm going 261 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:12.440 to riff and do this off the top of my head. It basically it 262 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:18.599 says something like, um, I stepped into the yard because he's because he's 263 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:22.519 like skipping through time, he knows what's going to happen. And I went 264 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:26.400 into the backyard knowing full well the flying saucer was going to arrive. There 265 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:33.839 was an owl hooting, and big flying saucer hovered over me and took me 266 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:37.759 to Trafalmador, which was the science fiction planet where he was taken. So 267 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:45.359 and the owl shows up a bunch of times symbolically each time the contact events 268 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:48.559 take place. I don't Kurt Fonic gets gone and there's no one to ask. 269 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:56.720 But I don't think that happened because he was a student of right this 270 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:00.240 lore. I think that happened organically. He was just tapped in as the 271 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.720 creative type. He was tapped into that to that creative like he was that 272 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:10.160 that book is like if you if there was a list of top I might 273 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.400 even be top ten books of the twentieth century, but certainly in the top 274 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:17.160 fifty, everyone would include that book. So that's not like a fly by 275 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:22.599 night kind of insignificant piece of work. That's a major piece of popular culture 276 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:30.000 literature. And it has flying saucers and UFOs, like totally interlocked. You 277 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.279 know, you know what might the other you might like this reference. We 278 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.000 recently, in the last like six to eight months, did an episode with 279 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:42.279 a friend of ours name Tom Batforce, who runs like a pretty large DC 280 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:47.839 comics um podcast where they talk about just comic books, not even you know, 281 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:51.400 spiritual stuff. But he did a crossover with us because he wanted to 282 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:55.440 start talking about spiritual stuff, and we did a whole episode about this series 283 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.680 called The Invisibles. No no, no, no, no, no, 284 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:00.799 it's not the Invisibles, is it? Yeah? Invisible is Grant cameras? 285 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.079 No, not that one, not the Grant Grant. Oh. The Department 286 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:07.359 of Truth. Department of Truth, the Department of Truth, And it has 287 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:12.640 UFOs and owl symbolism. There were owls in that right, Yeah. Did 288 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:15.839 I'm gonna write this down? What is it. It's called the Department of 289 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:18.559 Truth. Yeah, we did talk about the invisibles, but I got confused, 290 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.720 that's not the one I'm referencing, and I said it was Grant Camera. 291 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.920 It's not. It's Grant Morrison. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And 292 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:33.039 as far as as far as the idea of like the divine inspiration sort of 293 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:37.000 thing, like you you you mentioned that, you think, uh, maybe 294 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.640 the idea of using the owls and the UFOs in Slaughterhouse five just kind of 295 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:45.279 like happened organically. We talk about that pretty often on the show as well, 296 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:51.599 like those those like divine downloads whatever you want to call them. Um, 297 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:56.000 it's like that spark of inspiration. It's like whispers from the other realm. 298 00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.680 Well, it's kind of like a kind of like how you're describing the 299 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:03.119 owl, like bringing a message from the other realm. You know. I 300 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:07.000 almost almost look at it like that. And we also relate it often to 301 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:11.640 the Greek muses, you know, whispering inspiration into the ears of men. 302 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.680 So I think that does happen quite frequently. And it's even possible that, 303 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:21.000 you know, that could have been the case with Harry Potter, who knows, 304 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:26.440 but I think it I mean, you see occult symbolism and information in 305 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.480 so many movies, books, video games, music, It's everywhere now, 306 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:36.559 and it's all that that divine inspiration, those eerie downloads from that other realm. 307 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.119 Well, also we can talk about, like um, Carl Jung, 308 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:45.079 who just pretty much established in his work that like animal symbolism is universal in 309 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:48.720 the subconscious mind. You know, everybody, no matter if you're aware of 310 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:52.200 it or not, everybody is tapped into the symbolism of the animal kingdom on 311 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.279 a subconscious level. So like that that just you know, I feel like 312 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.440 that supports what you're saying, Mike. Yeah, Well, that's the term 313 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:03.279 is that would be the archetype. That's that's that's the vocabulary word that both 314 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:11.519 Carl Young used and Plato used was archetype. And uh, Carl Young took 315 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.079 it a little deeper than the than Plato's whatever would be like three thousand year 316 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:22.440 old definition, and uh, that's kind of tied into the collective consciousness. 317 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.240 So given Carl Jung's model, if there's a young and like scholar here, 318 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.400 they might cringe a little bit as I try to riff on this, but 319 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:36.240 let me te gus um he would he would argue that that within our collective, 320 00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:41.200 like all of us universally, all of us have an inner knowing of 321 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.599 what an owl means. Right, So there's things that like are inherent to 322 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:48.119 all of us. Right So, even as little kids were, we have 323 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.920 a fear of heights, we have a fear of loud noises. That that 324 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:59.000 was genetically. We can make sense of how that got fed into our to 325 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:03.200 our psyche. But it's a little more, a little esoteric. It's it's 326 00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:08.319 a little more like why would owls? Why would someone in Kenya have the 327 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:15.720 same mythology about owls as someone in Siberia. Right, So they're not exactly 328 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:21.799 the same, but wow, they they follow the same lore almost universally. 329 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:25.880 Owls are associated with death all over the world. Wow. Well, I 330 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:29.079 mean, I'm sure you recall this, Mike, But back in twenty thirteen 331 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:33.440 when my grandfather died, um we were riding in a limousine to my grandpa's 332 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:38.559 funeral and we saw an owl on um On. It was raining too, 333 00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:41.200 so there should not have been an owl. Owl. It was a dark 334 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:44.759 oh I mean I say dark, but you know it was a cloudy, 335 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:48.839 dark, rainy day in December and there was an owl on a dead tree 336 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.599 stump while we were writing to the funeral. So death, okay, now 337 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:59.000 so so so, so this is the question I ask, So what was 338 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:00.880 your What was your sense? I've talked your father at length about this, 339 00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.480 But what was your sense? I mean in the moment. Honestly, it 340 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:07.960 might not be a surprising answer. It's just that you know, we're on 341 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:11.279 the way to honor the death of my grandfather. The owl was just comforting 342 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:17.599 us or or or you know, just guiding us through the process. I 343 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:21.680 mean, my grandpa's death was very sudden. He actually, very shortly before 344 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:26.079 he died, he had been healed of cancer. And he got the phone 345 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:29.720 call pretty much like right in front of my dad, and it was kind 346 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.160 of like a Hallelujah moment. Threw his hands up to this guy and we 347 00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:34.319 saw orbs that he was healed of cancer. It was oh. And then 348 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:38.119 there was another instance where an owl flew right down on the patio um next 349 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.680 door where my grandpa. If you recall you've been to my old house, 350 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:44.799 I met your grandfather at that weekend. I was there. Yeah. Oh 351 00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:47.400 wow, so you were there just before he died. Then well it would 352 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:49.319 have been see if he died in December, I was there, and probably 353 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:57.599 it might have been. This was twenty thirteen when he might have been may 354 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:00.839 so might I think it was there? Me? Yeah, well, um, 355 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:04.279 there an owl you know, flew near them and he kind of had 356 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:10.519 this like miraculous healing of cancer and he believed in that. Ever you know, 357 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:12.240 past that, I mean, initially when this UFO stuff broke with our 358 00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:15.759 family, they didn't believe any of it. They thought it was crazy, 359 00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:18.400 they thought it was drugs. They didn't want to accept it. And then 360 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:21.880 he started having these experiences seeing orbs, see and owls, and then you 361 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.960 know, and then he suddenly died and we were all in huge shock. 362 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:27.640 And I just feel like the owl was guiding us through it, you know, 363 00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:33.160 it was it was um, you know, I can't sit here and 364 00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:36.319 say why it showed up, but it was very ominous and very strange. 365 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:45.240 I'm what you're sharing. I've heard hundreds of times, maybe thousands realistic, 366 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.920 well, but by not thousands, I've heard thousands of owls and the UFO 367 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:53.680 accounts, the owl and death accounts almost universally. There's some variation, but 368 00:26:53.759 --> 00:27:03.440 it is apparent passes and an owl shows up. So what's the conclusions? 369 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.039 What does it mean? What you just said it? You said it as 370 00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:11.640 plainly as you possibly could. You said it. What did you feel that 371 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:17.039 it was significant? I just I just felt like it was like, you 372 00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:19.400 know, it was all divinely orchestrated. I mean, nobody, nobody wants 373 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:22.000 to sit there and say, wow, you know, fate or God took 374 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.559 my grandpa away from me, but it was clearly meant to happen, and 375 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:29.880 we were you know, I had the sense that like it was just fate, 376 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.680 like I just had to you know. Okay, So so here's this 377 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.279 is very common. So you were in a car with your whole family. 378 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:38.720 The whole family was in the car. It was a limo. You know. 379 00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:41.640 Yeah, yeah, that's true. I talked to your dad and he 380 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:47.160 he said, exactly the same thing. That's in He says, that's in 381 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:49.000 it's in his book. That's in my book too, that's in this book 382 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:52.839 too. It's certainly that that story is in this book. Oh cool, 383 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:56.279 Yeah, you're the whole I was actually going to do I when this book 384 00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.240 got updated in two thousand, I just added a little bit of extra stuff. 385 00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:04.880 In twenty twenty, when this book got updated, and so there's a 386 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:07.599 couple extra paragraphs about your dad and there, and that was. But that 387 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:12.559 story was already in there. So let's go. Um, I'll tell a 388 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:19.960 story that happened to me. Okay, this would have also been This would 389 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:26.279 have been twenty and thirteen, twenty thirteen, how about that when my mom 390 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:27.839 died. So my mom, my dad died in two thousand and twelve. 391 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:32.799 My mom died in two thousand and thirteen, thirteen months later, so this 392 00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:37.400 would have been in the very end of July. My this wasn't My mother 393 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:44.319 was an assisted living facility just outside of Davidson, and my sister lives in 394 00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.319 Davidson. So my sister was taking care of my mom and she has she 395 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:52.160 had Alzheimer's in the last few years of her life. Were I'm sorry, 396 00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:57.200 Oh it was. It was. It was so sad. So Alzheimer's is 397 00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:03.160 tough. Yeah. So I was already well immersed in this OWL stuff at 398 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:06.759 that point, and I, my brother, sister, and I were there. 399 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:07.680 So here, let me back up a little bit. You want to 400 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:10.759 hear us, man, I'm going to back up a little bit. So, 401 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:15.039 yeah, I want to hear all about I was owl. This is 402 00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.359 so this is you were asking about owl symbolism. I was in living in 403 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:22.640 Idaho at the time. I'm presently in Seattle area right now, but my 404 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.079 little cabin in Idaho, I lived at high elevation. It was right near 405 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.119 Jackson Hole. It was a beautiful spot near the Titans and Yellowstone and it 406 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:34.039 gets hot during the day in the summer and then it cools off like you 407 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:37.960 need to Nobody can have a convertible and where I lived there because it gets 408 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:40.119 too cold at night, right, so you drive around the convertible, Hey, 409 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.359 what a beautiful day, and then they're like freeze at night. So 410 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:47.599 so so nobody has air conditioning. So what happens is at night you just 411 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:49.559 opened the doors and there's not really any bugs to speak of at night once 412 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:53.079 it gets cold, so you just everyone just opens their doors totally wide open. 413 00:29:53.880 --> 00:30:00.160 So I'm sitting here at my computer and the and in the kitchen the 414 00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:02.599 way the house was where my desk was, I could look right into the 415 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:06.880 kitchen and I'm typing away. It's about nine thirty at night, and I 416 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:08.839 hear this like noise in the kitchen. I think it's my cat, and 417 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.160 it's like that doesn't sound right. And I look over and there is a 418 00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:17.799 ferret in my kitchen, like a big wild ferret, whitey inch long wild 419 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:23.119 ferret, like a big in my kitchen. So I get up and I'm 420 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.160 like, what my fear was that this thing is going to come deeper to 421 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:29.000 the house and like get into the couch and I won't be able to get 422 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:30.119 it out of my cats in there and stuff like them. So so I 423 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.960 walk up to this thing. This is like white linoleum floor. All the 424 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:37.039 kitchen lights are on like fully lit, like this is not like. I 425 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:40.839 get a fleeting glimpse of this thing, and I stand right over this thing 426 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:45.720 and I say I kind of go with I kind of like kind of you 427 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.960 know, gotta go, and and I said, you can't be here, 428 00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:52.319 you need to leave, you need to go, you can't be here, 429 00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:57.440 and it hops out onto the porch and that's when we have a real stare 430 00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:02.359 down, like full on like two minutes of just well probably a minute of 431 00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:04.880 just like and now ferrets, remember the mink family, Their fur is just 432 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:11.319 lust shiny and beautiful, and they've got these big adorable eyes and the big 433 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:14.799 wet nose and just they have this life and vitality when they move around. 434 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.839 And I started this thing and then it just walked off into the bushes. 435 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:21.839 So I immediately looked up what kind of ferret it was, and there's a 436 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:25.519 faret called a black footed ferret identical like I was, Like I was, 437 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:27.440 I'm sick. I was. It was at my feet. I couldn't have 438 00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:30.519 been any closer. I'd have the only way to get closer, I'd be 439 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:34.559 on my knees right. So and so I totally the idea blackfoot fair. 440 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:38.319 Black footed faret was considered extinct until the nineteen eighties, and there's only a 441 00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:45.799 few places where they're known to live in. One of them is in Colorado 442 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:49.000 and then right in the Colorado Wyoming border. How this thing got in my 443 00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:55.640 kitchen and Idaho a lot. So yeah, I go to bed that night, 444 00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:57.440 I put I put a Facebook picture, and I put a picture of 445 00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:02.039 the blackfooted fair that I found online. I put it on Facebook. I 446 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:05.599 get up really early the next morning, which is unusual for me at that 447 00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.079 point in my life. Get up at like six and my brother leaves a 448 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.799 message for me. My brother's in the East Coast. I'm in the Mountain 449 00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:14.440 Times so there's a few hours difference, and he says, might call me. 450 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:17.480 I called him up. He says, Mom had an aneurysm last night. 451 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:23.839 Get get on a plane. Now, WHOA. So I get in 452 00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:30.079 a plane and then I so, now just let me let me back into 453 00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:36.799 So my mom was unconscious. She never regained consciousness. This is a part 454 00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:38.799 that I don't tell very often. But I was like my brother's sister, 455 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:43.640 and I took turns always being in the room with her. So there was 456 00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:45.920 always something in the room with her. And there was a point there was 457 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.359 kind of any You sit there and Mom stowly unconscious, and I took my 458 00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:51.799 shoes off. This is a weird thing, but I took my shoes off, 459 00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:53.240 and the way the bed was and the way the chair was it was, 460 00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:59.440 I put my feet under the blanket and touched my mom's feet. It 461 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:01.119 felt great, It felt great, It felt it was really touching thing you 462 00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:04.720 do. So I and then I was typing up and I was writing up 463 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.400 this story, just exactly the story I told about the ferret. And I 464 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:15.319 said, um, I typed, could that does this connect it to my 465 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:17.599 mom in some way? In the ferret? And my mom groaned audibly. 466 00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:22.400 It was the only noise she made in three days. When I typed, 467 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.799 does this has anything to do with my mom? The ferret? So what 468 00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:35.160 I said, my mom like completely sad, tragic. Last year of her 469 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:44.519 life was awful. This shining glorious animals stands in my kitchen and I say, 470 00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:49.599 you can't be here, you need to leave, and that and that 471 00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:53.559 was the night she had the aneurysm. So it was an omen. It 472 00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:55.799 was let's say, what's an omen? It's like it is it an omen? 473 00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:59.839 Is it a premonition? Is a divine Is it a divine message? 474 00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:01.680 Is it? Is it me connecting to the spirit of my mother? You 475 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:05.359 can look at this one hundred ways. I don't know what the answer is. 476 00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:08.000 Yeah, yeah, So so I'm a couple of three days later, 477 00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:12.920 I'm I'm with my mom. I'm sitting on one side of the bed, 478 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.920 my sister is sitting on the other side of the bed, and my brother 479 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.639 was out of the he was at the hotel at the time and which was 480 00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:22.199 right nearby it. But we called, but my mom passed. I was 481 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:24.440 holding her hand and my sister was holding her other hand. It was really 482 00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:30.880 touching, beautiful life experience that I I'm not the only person who's had that 483 00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:37.280 experience, but it was really it felt really important. Wow. So mom 484 00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.639 passes. It's like it happens at like three in the morning, and oh 485 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:45.199 my gosh, there's ten thousand things to do and phone calls and planning and 486 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:47.840 people to contact, and my brother's sister and I took turns in and we're 487 00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:51.960 like trying to sleep. And so finally that next day kind of comes to 488 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:58.599 an end and we're in the back porch where my sister lives, and her 489 00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:02.639 neighbor from across the street, Ruthie, is there. So Ruthie's sitting there's 490 00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:06.960 like this kind of you can imagine like a pretty backyard in the North Carolina 491 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:08.840 with the big trees and and a big deck. And so we're on this 492 00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:14.480 kind of big couch, kind of wicker couch thing, and Ruthie's directly across 493 00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:17.079 from me my sister, So I'm in the middle. My older brother Jim 494 00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:22.679 is on one side, my sister Jeanie's on the other side, and Jim 495 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.440 and jean like every morning I would get up and it's the Jim Jeane. 496 00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:28.880 Look, I got more owl stories. They just arrive in my email inbox 497 00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:30.480 and they're like, well, Mike, what are you talking about? Why 498 00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:32.000 I'm doing this research about owls? And it's all really weird, and it's 499 00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:35.400 like and I would read these letters and it's totally like, yeah, I 500 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:37.599 saw UFO and then this awlf flew over and then you know, then I 501 00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:42.000 had like you know, I was had esp or whatever it might be. 502 00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:43.920 And they're just like, my broom. You could tell. They were like, 503 00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:47.119 what are you, Mike, what do you into? And so I'm 504 00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:51.480 sitting in the middle of them, and then Ruthi's sitting across from us, 505 00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:57.639 and she says she's like told my sister's best friend. She's like like she's 506 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:05.400 she's this really lovely, heart centered, like angel of a person. So 507 00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:08.840 she says, jim Chen, Mike, I know there was an afterlife, 508 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:17.159 and I know because of an experience I had with an owl. And and 509 00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:21.719 my sister does the thing where she kind of goes, no, no, 510 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:24.079 I don't want to hear I don't want to hear it. My brother looks 511 00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.119 at me like, what the like, did you did you plan this? 512 00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:30.360 Did you put her up to this? Did you pay her? Did he 513 00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:32.719 give you this? Look like like what is going on? And I'm like 514 00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:37.920 Ruthie like sees it and like just before Ruthie's face like what did I say, 515 00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.639 Like like okay, Ruthie, just just so you know, you don't 516 00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:43.960 know this, but I've been doing this research about owls. I want to 517 00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:49.880 hear your story. She says, when my daddy died, she's the same 518 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:52.840 agent as my sister older sisters. This would have been ten years ago. 519 00:36:52.880 --> 00:37:00.599 She would have been in her late fifties. She's she I when my daddy 520 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:05.239 died, I was grieving. I was grieving. It was so hard for 521 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.440 me. And every day, as part of my grieving process, I would 522 00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:14.079 walk this path and the neighborhood has this little kind of nature trail that goes 523 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:16.079 around through the trees, and she would she would walk that every day, 524 00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:20.239 and then she came. Every day she would pass an owl on a branch, 525 00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:22.880 and then finally she said, the owls shouldn't be out. The owl 526 00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:27.599 hooted, and she stopped, and she said, the owl shouldn't be this 527 00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.920 shouldn't be here every day. All shouldn't be out during the day. And 528 00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:37.760 she looked at this owl and she said, are you my daddy? And 529 00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:43.920 she just said her grieving ended. Whoa, and the owl flew off. 530 00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:47.960 And she says, because of that experience, I know my daddy. She 531 00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:53.679 said it. She said the messenger there was a message delivered, like the 532 00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:58.800 owl flew off. She never saw the owl again. She was she was 533 00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:06.199 grieving. The grieving stopped. Wow, that story I have heard I don't 534 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:12.079 know how many times a lot and so that and I'm I would argue that. 535 00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:15.000 So there's a I just held the floor here for a long time. 536 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:20.400 But there's a lot going on in that story with owls archetypal animals. Right, 537 00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:23.519 So a ferret which has got which is a symbolic of life, it's 538 00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:29.079 very feminine. It's a symbolic of life and dynamism. And the owl, 539 00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:35.280 which is symbolic of it's less a symbol of death and more a symbol of 540 00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:44.159 that of that transference or that transformation from life to death. So yeah, 541 00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:46.599 yeah, no, I don't I don't get the bad sense of owls like 542 00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:50.599 a you know, a warning of death. It seems more like it's they 543 00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:53.679 appear around death, right like when you know, to sort of guide through 544 00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:58.039 the process. Am I just making this up here? Nope? No, 545 00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:00.599 I mean that's there's every story is different, right, I got one for 546 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:05.119 you to go to help that claim. And I'm sure if you've read my 547 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:07.639 dad's book, then you know this story. But I'm sure not every listener 548 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:12.000 out there has read my dad's book. So in chapter two or three, 549 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:20.440 he writes a chapter basically about how he had a pretty crazy owl experience at 550 00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:22.920 the church when he was ten years old. As a little boy, he 551 00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:25.679 would always um, you know, back then, living out in the country's 552 00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:30.360 area of Grace Creek, it was like not many street lights, dirt roads, 553 00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:37.760 very dark, very secluded country area, and he would always get dropped 554 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:39.400 off at like church, and he would be there till night, and he 555 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:43.280 would have to wait at the church until you know, my grandma drove up 556 00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:45.000 in the car and pick him up. Anyway, So one night he's waiting 557 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:50.159 there and an owl just flies up and basically gets right in his face. 558 00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:53.079 And then it was within a few days that he was shot by a shotgun 559 00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:59.360 and basically died and was completely changed for the rest of his life. And 560 00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:02.079 it's like, you know, the owl appeared, but he didn't die, 561 00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:07.960 you know, he did, he did, he did. So this is 562 00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.519 I don't want to speak for your father, but like given his explanation, 563 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:16.159 he did have the transformational process, right yeah, I mean he basically died, 564 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:20.800 but he lived. You know, it's like people people back. Yeah, 565 00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:23.320 yeah, yeah, and he always just I've been to that tree. 566 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:27.519 He drove me there. We got out of the car. He stood there, 567 00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:29.679 He pointed right to the tree. He pointed right to the branch where 568 00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:31.639 the owl was this old, big, like big fat oak tree. I 569 00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:35.119 guess like that was in the parking lot of the church. Yeah, so 570 00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:37.400 I stood right in that exact spot. Yeah. Wow. And then he 571 00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:40.800 was um shot in the hunting accidents. Actually, when I think about it 572 00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:47.280 was doves. They were hunting doves and another another symbol archetypal, right right, 573 00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:50.280 Yeah, that's why I said, now that I think about it, 574 00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:52.599 it's a bird. It was dove, and um, it was just an 575 00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:55.199 accident. You know. He was ten, his cousin was nine or ten, 576 00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:59.760 and his best friend out there with him was nine or ten. And 577 00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:01.960 Dad bent down to pick up a shotgun shell or something like that. And 578 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:05.559 then when he stood up, Um, you know, a bunch of nine 579 00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:07.840 year old shouldn't be handling shot guns. And he got shot in the back, 580 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:13.679 um, you know, and he he almost died. I mean he 581 00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:17.119 always described to me my whole life and everybody who ever asks that, it 582 00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:21.119 was like immediately he left his body on What he felt like was, you 583 00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:22.760 know how the silver surfer flies around on a surfboard. He felt like it 584 00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:25.760 was like that, like kind of like on a surfboard, just shooting through 585 00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:32.639 the stars. I'm interested to know, um, if you don't mind, 586 00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:37.679 when when was the first time that you kind of put the whole owl and 587 00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:42.159 UFO thing together? How did that? How did that come about for the 588 00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:46.880 first time? Uh? Two thousand and six, I was living in the 589 00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:52.719 little town in Idaho, which so I was working as an outdoor educator teaching 590 00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:58.079 mountaineering in Alaska. So I would spend the summers in Alaska teaching mountaineering, 591 00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:00.880 and then in the winners I would teach winter skiing, and then there was 592 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:05.360 some shoulder season stuff I would do with climbing and camping and stuff like that. 593 00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:09.000 But I was where I lived, in the little town of Driggs, 594 00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:13.440 Idaho. There was a branch for the school I worked for. There was 595 00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.119 a branch there, and all my friends worked for the school. So you 596 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.119 just it was I could ride my bike there. It was this beautiful idyllic 597 00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:22.519 life that I lived there for those years. And and there was this young 598 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:27.920 woman there and she had been working all summer. This would have been the 599 00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:30.440 end of September early October. I can't pin the date down exactly. End 600 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:34.400 of September early October of two thousand and six. I would have been forty 601 00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:39.559 four years old. I'm sixty now. And she and I got in a 602 00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:45.159 conversation. She knew my books, my cartoon books where I did cartoon instructional 603 00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:50.920 books for for camping and such. So I said, oh, wow, 604 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:53.000 you've been here all summer. You've been all summer and the Ta Tons and 605 00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:55.880 the yellow Stone, you must have been camping all the time. And she 606 00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:59.519 stood, I never camped once, and like, oh, that's terrible, 607 00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:02.360 terrible. I'll take a camping, so this total stranger, I'll take a 608 00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:06.320 camping for one night. Let's go. And so we went out. And 609 00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:08.639 this was kind of a first state. That might sound kind of funny to 610 00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:14.920 a lot of people, but in in in that part of the world, 611 00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:19.039 like camping is like a normal total thing that's going in a hike and going 612 00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:21.760 skiing or I don't think it's weird at all. Yeah. So I just 613 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:23.880 took this woman camping for a first date. So so and I didn't really 614 00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:29.880 know where. Her name is Kristen and we're still good friends. Oh yeah, 615 00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:34.440 and so she uh, so we went. We got to the spot 616 00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:37.480 in the mountains and this is like whereas the sun is setting. I just 617 00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:39.480 walked in with really light packs. We went without a tint. It was 618 00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:42.440 going to be a beautiful to night. I could read the weather. It 619 00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:45.519 was gonna we're only one night get this weather in the autumn at just magical, 620 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:50.119 perfect cloudless sky and you know it's good. So nope, we didn't 621 00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:52.239 take an tent. So we're we're sitting on speak flat rock and this field 622 00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:58.599 of wildflowers and the stars are coming out and she's she this to tell the 623 00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:05.880 story correctly. There's there's some details this she's telling me the story, and 624 00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:09.079 I'm like, whoa, Wow, this is someone smart, this is someone 625 00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:14.960 with some depth. This someone was like, this is I did not expect 626 00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:19.360 this of this stranger. Like wow. We had a really deep conversation and 627 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.159 as that happened, this owl flew right over our heads. Wow. And 628 00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:27.480 then the next two owls, then another owl, then a third own. 629 00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:30.320 For the next two hours, these owls just flew around us. So we 630 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:32.599 were in bare countries. So where we were cooking, we had to put 631 00:44:32.599 --> 00:44:36.360 everything away and then we walked for it. We didn't walk free far, 632 00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:37.719 like a little bit, so we had to walk away and the owls followed 633 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.039 us. And then we found us about to sleep, and we set our 634 00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:45.239 sleeping pads out on the ground, and so we're like lying on the ground, 635 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:50.639 and what would happen is these owls would like, We're in our sleeping 636 00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:54.519 bags loking up at the stars, total complete inky black night with the trillion 637 00:44:54.599 --> 00:45:01.960 stars far north Rocky Mountains, high elevation, and these owls would like totally 638 00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:06.559 silent fly in front of our faces and for just half a second that would 639 00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:10.199 be inky black, like splotted out the scar So the next day we were 640 00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:15.719 oh so So the next day we were like on fire. Wow the owl 641 00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:16.559 thing. That was so cool. So I said, hey, if you 642 00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:19.960 ever want to go camping again, let's go. She said great. So 643 00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:22.719 four days later we own camping one more time, went to a totally different 644 00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:27.000 part of the mountains, and then it was kind of cold, that night, 645 00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:29.719 so I said, let's hike up to that hilltop and we'll warm up. 646 00:45:29.719 --> 00:45:30.840 So we'll hike up to this hiltop. We were way above what would 647 00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:35.639 be called tree line, so it's big open tun drub, you know, 648 00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:38.360 where there's no trees at a certain elevation. So we hike up to this 649 00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:43.480 lone peak and watched the sunset, and as the sun is setting, an 650 00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:45.960 owl flies over us, and then a second owl, and then a third. 651 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:51.320 Our three hours before they kind of stayed over there. They'd kind of 652 00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:53.000 land on a branch way out there, but this time, like they were 653 00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:59.039 they were right up close. They were like landing on the branch right next 654 00:45:59.079 --> 00:46:01.039 to us, on a little bush. They landed at our feet. I 655 00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:07.599 can so clearly see the look on Kristen's face of just like just astonishment. 656 00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:10.559 And this is a completely different area, rightly, a different area. And 657 00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:13.679 this is a weird thing to say. It's a weird thing to say, 658 00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:15.880 but I'm going to say that they were the same three owls, don't. 659 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:17.079 I mean, I can't prove that, but that's certainly my sense. Ye, 660 00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:22.800 we're in it now, Yeah, yeah, Wow, that's that's an 661 00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:29.039 incredible story. So hold it. Wait so so so so yeah, yeah, 662 00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:32.920 what was the relationship to UFOs? Yeah, so so I so when 663 00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:37.679 I so. I did not say this at the time, but I'm saying 664 00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:43.840 it now. As I was having real experience of looking at real owls, 665 00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:46.239 I had a voice in my head that said, a voice in my head 666 00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:50.199 could have been my own, right, murky, you know, like a 667 00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:52.039 voice in your head. What does that mean? The voice said, this 668 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:57.440 has something to do with the UFOs. So I'm looking at an owl. 669 00:46:57.719 --> 00:47:00.199 Your voice in my head says, this has something to do with the UFOs. 670 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:06.159 Whoa, And I'm so started. Well, in my youth, I 671 00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:08.679 had like missing time events and I saw gray aliens in my yard and I 672 00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:13.079 saw UFOs and stuff. So but that had been a long time before, 673 00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:15.960 and I had just been I could talk about here about that now? Well 674 00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:22.280 yeah saw so so so here's so so like to have it happened once, 675 00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:23.840 it was pretty cool, right, like, wow, it's awesome to have 676 00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:27.960 it happened twice with the same person and what might be the same owls. 677 00:47:28.039 --> 00:47:31.639 And four days later I was like just like I lost my mind, Like 678 00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:35.000 I totally lost my mind. I was like, ah, what does this 679 00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:38.360 mean? And I like and I and what I and So this was at 680 00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:44.480 the point in my life when I was like I knew I had to look 681 00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:46.800 into the UFO stuff in my life, Like I knew I had to deal 682 00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:51.119 with this in my life, Like I knew I couldn't push this away. 683 00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:54.320 And then like it was like there was always this gonna like there's gonna be 684 00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:57.960 a day I'll get around to it. And I but I'm not going to 685 00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:00.280 do it now, no way, not yet, not now. But that 686 00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:06.000 just that just like pushed me right. So I started reaching out to UFO 687 00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:10.440 researchers, and I reached out to Bud Hopkins. Do you remember that there's 688 00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:14.599 a character named Leo Sprinkle. Have you come across his name in the literature? 689 00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:20.039 I've heard his name. I know he died. He died just a 690 00:48:20.119 --> 00:48:22.519 year. That's met him or he's told me about him or something. Yeah, 691 00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:23.400 your dad may have met him, I bitch. So, but he 692 00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:27.320 died about a year ago. He was like ninety five or something like that. 693 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.599 But he was really sharp right up to the end and really great. 694 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:32.199 But anyway, so, so he was in Wyoming, so I could I 695 00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.719 met with him and he said he did this thing. He was like, 696 00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:37.679 Mike, here's here's a call this guy. Give me. Here's this number, 697 00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:42.079 call this person. So every person I talked to I would ask, 698 00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:44.840 you know, I'd ask like, you do know what's your UFO story? 699 00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:46.920 And then but I would also always ask like, if you'd had any odd 700 00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:52.360 experiences with owls? You try it? Asked someone who said UFO experiences, 701 00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:55.320 asked him if you had had any odd experiences with owls? Get ready? 702 00:48:57.079 --> 00:48:59.400 Get oh yeah, get ready. It's not gonna be one hundred percent, 703 00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:02.320 but I'll tell you sure, get ready. You're gonna hear the weirdest can 704 00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:10.400 I swear absolutely? Hear the weirdest shit imaginable? So let's so I started 705 00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:15.239 a blog in two thousand and nine. Kristen the girl, the young woman 706 00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:21.760 I was but camping. She moved out of the valley and so, but 707 00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:23.159 we kept in touch, had her phone number and stuff. So when I 708 00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:28.400 the story, I just told about the owls and flying around and that without 709 00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:30.679 without the detail of the voice in my head. I talked about that. 710 00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:36.079 Now I'm kind of overall that at this point. I don't try to hide 711 00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:39.360 anything at this point. So so um, I got a hold of her 712 00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:44.760 and because I did a blog post and I put it out the blog post 713 00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:46.599 up, and that would have been in March of two thousand and nine, 714 00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:51.480 so three years later, and I contacted her and said, Kristen, what 715 00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:54.360 were we talking about? I remember we were talking about something the very first 716 00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:59.239 night we saw the very first owls. What were we talking about? And 717 00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:01.719 she said, oh, I remember exactly what we were talking about. I 718 00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:10.199 was giving my deepest, most heartfelt definition of what God means to me when 719 00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:16.199 the first all showed up. Wow, I say. She just basically told 720 00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:20.079 she basically, well, that's that would be more for her to answers has 721 00:50:20.119 --> 00:50:28.000 been so yeah. So basically she gave a very thoughtful definition of like of 722 00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:32.840 how God is riff I should be able to do this pretty closely so that 723 00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:37.280 she's not at all churchy as and neither of my but I certainly rank suddenly 724 00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:47.719 recognized the spiritual and enormity of that. And though I'm certainly like I believe 725 00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:52.559 in a in what we would call God, oftentimes I don't say that, 726 00:50:52.599 --> 00:50:55.519 I'll say the universe or the ever present all or something like that or and 727 00:50:55.519 --> 00:51:01.679 and uh so she was just get she gave a very beautiful anyway, she 728 00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:06.440 would answer that better than I could. But what that did. So this 729 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:10.079 is three years later, I've got a website that I'm writing about UFOs novels 730 00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:14.079 on. Actually it was only the first few days of the website of the 731 00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:19.320 blog then this happened. And wow, like wow, like for me, 732 00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:22.920 I'm already like that thing where I said I went insane, like that feeling 733 00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:27.199 of being insane, I say this, I'm I'm not. I don't. 734 00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:30.760 I'm maybe exaggerating a little bit, but I'm not much. Between two thousand 735 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:37.480 and six and two thirteen, I felt I feel like I spent ninety five 736 00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:43.280 percent of my waking hours wondering if I had gone insane. Because after that 737 00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:47.960 event, it wasn't like I was hit with not so much UFO experiences and 738 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:51.760 not so much I'll experience that a little of that, but but I was 739 00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:57.800 hit with so many synchronicities at a level that was blew my mind, and 740 00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:02.079 so I was. I was just basically things were happening to me with such 741 00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:07.760 an overwhelming intensity in a way that like the world, my parents, the 742 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:10.920 schools, the New York Times, all New York Times changed a little bit 743 00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:16.119 the last few years. But like the general consensus said, this cannot happen. 744 00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:20.719 What you're what you're describing in your life cannot happen. But it was 745 00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:24.440 happening, and I was. I was so off balanced. And it was 746 00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:30.920 in those years that I was writing furiously on my blog about my what would 747 00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:34.920 be a lot of it was about synchronicities, and a lot of it about 748 00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:37.159 what is about owls, and a lot of it was about UFO contact memories 749 00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:40.239 or events that were taking place during that time. Okay, sorry, I'm 750 00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:44.119 do the thing this is I should have the coffee is. Oh no, 751 00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:51.480 you're very thoughtful, intentional storyteller. I'm it's amazing. Yeah, I'm enthralled. 752 00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:54.079 Um. Yeah, no, I know exactly the feeling you're describing, 753 00:52:54.119 --> 00:52:58.880 Mike, And you're definitely not insane. I've had many you do know. 754 00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:01.800 Yeah, and your father certainly knows that I actually know the Book of Half 755 00:53:02.039 --> 00:53:07.480 Yeah, you know. Yeah, And it's une else for sure. For 756 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:10.199 sure, lots of people know that feeling when you have some sort of paranormal 757 00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:14.639 experience and it's like everyone around you is telling you it's not happening, and 758 00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:16.599 you're like, this shouldn't be happening. And it can make you feel very 759 00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:21.960 ungrounded. You know, it's like, not not that you're going insane, 760 00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:25.119 but it certainly feels that way when you have no there's there's low key it's 761 00:53:25.159 --> 00:53:29.639 low key gaslighting when people do that to you, because they're trying to make 762 00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:32.400 you believe in a reality that is not your reality, you know what I 763 00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:37.000 mean, Like, yeah, they're they're trying to tell you what your reality 764 00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:43.920 is. But I think many of them, Oh absolutely, it's but it's 765 00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:46.400 it's both at the same time. It's it's like, you know, the 766 00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:52.719 the thing that's so bad about gaslighting is you make people feel like they're insane. 767 00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:58.000 They're they're living in a world that's not real or not lining up to 768 00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:04.159 with what you believe or with what the other person believes. That's exactly what 769 00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:07.519 that does to somebody is it makes them feel like, well, what's wrong 770 00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:09.559 with me? Then? Yeah, yeah, I had to go through that 771 00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:13.119 all by yourself. That's awful. Oh but it was, you know, 772 00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:15.119 honestly, it wasn't all by myself. Strangely enough, the blog what a 773 00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:17.320 weird this is? Like, this was two thousand and nine. If you 774 00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:20.880 turn the clock back, that was really early on and like what would be 775 00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:22.559 called the blog sphere. That was so I was. I wasn't on the 776 00:54:22.599 --> 00:54:27.679 ground before past. Oh yeah, well I started plenty two thousand and nine. 777 00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:29.840 So I was, well, you were ahead of the curve, man, 778 00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:30.679 because it was not much ahead of the curve. I wasn't there. 779 00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:34.440 It was not a big common thing for everybody to just have a podcast. 780 00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:37.760 Oh yeah, yeah. So but um, but so I wasn't alone in 781 00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:42.119 that sense because I was meeting people through the through the blog. You know 782 00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:45.519 you. I just listened to a podcast you did with your might have been 783 00:54:45.559 --> 00:54:49.039 the last one that was on, and you were talking with your sister and 784 00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:52.039 and yeah, you said something. You said something like like you go to 785 00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:55.760 a party and people are just talking about this like boring stuff, like you 786 00:54:55.800 --> 00:54:59.199 know, this day to day stuff like you know, he said, she 787 00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:01.400 said, or like you know this new thing I got or this new TV 788 00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:05.960 or something, and it just it just it's just like it's I and I 789 00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:07.679 could tap into it totally. I can't remember exactly what you said, but 790 00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:14.000 but there's this this like what why are you wasting time on this? When 791 00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:16.960 there's like, you know, who are we? What are we here for? 792 00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:20.920 What does it all mean, you know, like those are like why 793 00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:25.719 aren't we where aren't you going there? There was the time in my younger 794 00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:29.039 years. I say that, I mean, I'm only twenty nine, but 795 00:55:29.119 --> 00:55:31.280 like even younger when this was stuff, you know, a lot more new 796 00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:34.719 than it is now. There was a time where it was all I ever 797 00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:38.159 ever wanted to talk about was the UFO stuff for the paranormal or whatever. 798 00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:44.079 And I had to learn the very hard way that most people don't want to 799 00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:47.199 hear it, and if they do, they'll let you know. And it's 800 00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:50.400 okay if they don't, because now I have a podcast that I could just 801 00:55:50.440 --> 00:55:52.760 go broadcast it and get that out of my system, you know. So 802 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:55.360 it's really helped me a lot. I'm sure like your blog helped you, 803 00:55:55.599 --> 00:56:00.159 this podcast has helped me in waste that people just couldn't even imagine. Oh 804 00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:01.639 yeah, oh yeah, yeah, oh wow. In fact, so the 805 00:56:01.880 --> 00:56:06.760 I did a podcast, My initial podcast was called Hidden Experience. It's all 806 00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:08.280 still archived, done, you can get it anywhere, find it anywhere. 807 00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:14.280 But I was that was like therapy, one hundred percent therapy. It's like, 808 00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:20.440 oh yeah, five years of therapy, Like who do I talk to? 809 00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:23.760 Richard Dolan, Like why do I even I just I'll okay, ask 810 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:29.679 him to me in my podcast. That was my that was my methodology just 811 00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:32.280 so so it's it's like I was you can hear it. I mean, 812 00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:36.519 it wasn't hidden, and I was needy and I wanted that. I wanted 813 00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:40.159 help. So that's awesome. Wow, you've come a long way, Mike. 814 00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:44.639 It's been incredible. I mean, is is there anything before we go? 815 00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:46.360 Is there anything that you feel like you haven't gotten off your chest? 816 00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:51.400 But like, oh, I so the problem is okay, like I got 817 00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:52.920 like off like I've gotten it all off my chest. I mean, if 818 00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:55.960 you if you stack my books up, it's was there, like it's like 819 00:56:57.039 --> 00:57:01.840 over it's like fifteen hundred pages of Okay, I got a go ahead. 820 00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:07.880 I got a question for you. Why do you actually think that owls appear 821 00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:12.960 with paranormal sightings, synchronicities UFOs? What's the meaning behind it? Why specifically 822 00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:15.800 do they appear? Okay, So, do you know Richard Dolan at all? 823 00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:20.719 Or he published my books? Initially? My dad's been on a show 824 00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:22.360 and I've met him once on the phone, but I don't know him that 825 00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:25.599 well. So he so, so I knew him pretty well because he published 826 00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:29.840 my books. Initially A nice guy. He's a super great guy, super 827 00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:31.000 great guy. And so so when I did the first book, this book, 828 00:57:31.039 --> 00:57:36.000 the Blue Book, um, he was he was. He called me, 829 00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:37.079 like, Mike, Mike, I'm loving your book. Your book is 830 00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:39.440 great. I really yeah, I'm really like, but like, when do 831 00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:42.199 you get to the point when you say, like, what does the owls 832 00:57:42.199 --> 00:57:46.519 mean? What are you going to get? You're going to be really disappointed 833 00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:50.880 at the book. So I kind of and and then I did a second 834 00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:52.360 book because I got my books here on the desk here. But the second 835 00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:58.719 book was Stories from the Messengers, which is cool, which is a all 836 00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:02.039 the stories that wouldn't fit into the first book, right, so here you 837 00:58:02.119 --> 00:58:07.360 must understand, so you know what it means to like like there's a thing 838 00:58:07.400 --> 00:58:09.880 in an event and then you try to tell it, but it's like, 839 00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:14.840 but I gotta in order to really understand, you gotta tell this thread over 840 00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:16.679 here. But we can't understand that threat until you tell this thread over here. 841 00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:21.519 And then and then this tapestry emerges and then there's like no beginning, 842 00:58:21.519 --> 00:58:23.960 middle, and end of the story because it's just like so many events are 843 00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:28.719 noted together. That's what I was finding in people's reports as well as in 844 00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:30.880 my own life experience. That that's how it was playing up. So that 845 00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:37.599 book was sort of this book was sort of examining that tight tapestry with about 846 00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:40.000 there's about sixteen stories. But in the here I'll even do it. I'll 847 00:58:40.039 --> 00:58:45.519 open this book up because this is in the So when I did the second 848 00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:47.679 book, he published a second book, and he's richest from New York City. 849 00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:50.280 He's pretty tough, and he was like, Mike, now, no 850 00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:52.800 way, you're not getting away with it this time. No way, not 851 00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:54.960 me. You gotta you can't do it. You gotta tell you, gotta 852 00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:59.440 give me your reasons of what it means. And so I'm just gonna read 853 00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:06.239 it because it's short. Okay, oh nice. So again, why owls 854 00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:09.519 On a purely intellectual level, I don't know, but my gut feeling gives 855 00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:15.639 me a glimpse into some possible answers. Here are four ideas on what owls 856 00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:19.840 might mean, each of which are followed with another question. So I kind 857 00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:21.559 of cheat, like I could say, oh, here's what it might mean, 858 00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:23.880 and answer, well, who knows? So Number one, owls are 859 00:59:23.920 --> 00:59:30.079 alarm clocks. The simplest answer is that they are here to wake us up, 860 00:59:31.159 --> 00:59:37.119 to wake us up to what. Number two. Owls are an archetype. 861 00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:42.519 They are a symbol, an image stored deep within humanity's genetic memory bank. 862 00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:49.000 It's as if there are hidden meanings locked away within our grand shared consciousness 863 00:59:49.360 --> 00:59:53.559 and the owl is a key. We think in symbols, and the owl 864 00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:59.519 is touching us on that level. And this deeper knowing goes back to the 865 00:59:59.559 --> 01:00:06.960 dawn of man. But what is the hidden archetypal meaning? Number three, 866 01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:12.960 owls are here to announce initiation. So so, like part of my researches, 867 01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:15.159 I've talked to a lot of shamans, people who do shaman, and 868 01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:22.199 it is well understood within shamanic communities that owls show up. It's like I'll 869 01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:25.320 show up at the time of the initiation of a shaman. They just show 870 01:00:25.400 --> 01:00:30.800 up. Wow. So given, so let's go. Let's so your dad, 871 01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:36.320 I'm gonna, I'm gonna just Shaman is a tough thing to define, 872 01:00:36.519 --> 01:00:38.760 right, So one person would have a one definition, one person would have 873 01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:46.199 another. Now, your father's doing healing work, he's doing has psychic abilities. 874 01:00:46.239 --> 01:00:50.280 I mean this that would healing work in a community, that would be 875 01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:54.880 a shaman. So when in the owl showed up during what would be his 876 01:00:55.000 --> 01:01:00.639 initiation, m I think that's fair to say that this is this is absolutely 877 01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:04.719 common. It's not just your dad. I definitely consider my dad like a 878 01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:08.280 shaman. Oh oh yeah, like like more or less you get shaman like 879 01:01:08.920 --> 01:01:15.719 a shaman, a wizard all yeah, So okay. Owls are here to 880 01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:21.239 announce initiation. An initiation is a ritual, like a young Catholic receiving the 881 01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:27.480 Eucharist for the first Holy communion. Owls often seem to show up just before 882 01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:31.800 the arrival of a UFO, as if to announce an important impending ritual. 883 01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:39.559 Religious scholars would argue that this initiation, that these initiation rights are metaphoric of 884 01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:45.440 a profound change within the initiate, but the true believer wouldn't see the initiation 885 01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:52.079 as a metaphor. The change would be entirely real. But an initiation into 886 01:01:52.159 --> 01:02:00.599 what number four. The owls are a totem of the transformational experience seeing a 887 01:02:00.719 --> 01:02:05.840 UFO can transform someone. I've spoken to a lot of people who have seen 888 01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:09.599 strange craft in the sky and in that moment, their entire definition of reality 889 01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:15.280 is altered. I've also, excuse me, I've also spoken to people who 890 01:02:15.280 --> 01:02:21.440 have had owl sightings at such highly charged moments that it transformed their lives. 891 01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:29.320 But a transformation into what wow. So so you asked that was that's the 892 01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:31.000 best I could come up with as far as men. So that was that 893 01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:37.000 was incredibly deep. And I do want to say something I just realized earlier. 894 01:02:37.039 --> 01:02:38.320 You asked me, what did I feel in the moment when I saw 895 01:02:38.360 --> 01:02:43.079 the owl going to the funeral? Well, I wanted the preface or not 896 01:02:43.159 --> 01:02:47.559 preface, but you know, speak in Hindsights twenty twenty right, proface, 897 01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:52.880 I don't really feel anything in the moment. What I feel like is what 898 01:02:53.039 --> 01:02:57.599 if the owl or you know, X, y Z, other symbolic thing 899 01:02:57.639 --> 01:03:01.400 in nature is there, so that afterwards the meaning can also be gleaned, 900 01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:05.760 because in the moment it's just grief, you know what I mean. You're 901 01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:07.599 not you're not thinking, oh, look it's an owl from the spirit. 902 01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:10.000 I mean most people are not thinking it's an owl from the spirit world. 903 01:03:10.280 --> 01:03:14.840 It's here right now, you know, I promise you it wasn't thinking that 904 01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:19.159 in the moment, Ruthie. But I'm sure you know. I'm sure people 905 01:03:19.239 --> 01:03:22.400 do. But I'm just wondering if what if the symbol you know, the 906 01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:27.960 animals, whatever, symbolism is present in the experience so that it can be 907 01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:30.960 contemplated past, present or future, etc. Etc. You know what I 908 01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:35.800 mean. So it could be the experience could be like contextualized, right, 909 01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:39.960 yeah, and understood as a spiritual experience. It's kind of like a reminder 910 01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:45.519 like like you know, he locks in. I think symbolism like locks in 911 01:03:45.519 --> 01:03:51.920 the significance of the metaphorical metaphysical stuff. I don't know. I'm just speculating. 912 01:03:52.800 --> 01:04:00.159 So we we Okay, So I had a hypnosisssion cool in two and 913 01:04:00.199 --> 01:04:03.840 eighteen. Oh my godson, Oh my god. The story is like I'm 914 01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:06.719 happy to tell it. It takes a long time. Yeah, well let 915 01:04:06.760 --> 01:04:10.079 me so, let me so. So do you know do you know Yevan 916 01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:14.480 Smith? My dad does. Okay, Yeah, that doesn't spies me. 917 01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:16.440 Your dad does. So. So I was I was going to be in 918 01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:19.320 California. Her offices are in Pasadena, So I was going to be in 919 01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:21.559 California. And I said, Hey, I'm going to be in California in 920 01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:29.559 this two thousand summer two thousand eighteen. So I visited her and so I 921 01:04:29.719 --> 01:04:31.559 we said, we're going to explore one night in my life with this. 922 01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:35.519 Sure sounds like a UFO contact event. I'll go into that right now. 923 01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:40.159 But but wow, because it's like textbook, well in the may not textbook, 924 01:04:40.400 --> 01:04:43.280 it's like you got to be pretty well immersed in the lore. But 925 01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:46.320 wow, but there was no fear associated with that night. So I was 926 01:04:46.360 --> 01:04:48.679 like, Okay, let's explore that. And then I said at the beginning, 927 01:04:48.679 --> 01:04:51.559 I said, hey, by the way, let's while we're talking. 928 01:04:54.320 --> 01:05:00.000 At some point we're talking when I'm under hypnosis, you ask me like, 929 01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:02.920 what's up with the owls? Can you do that? She's of course I 930 01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:05.039 can do that. I can do that. So we go through this whole 931 01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:10.400 thing, and I freaking swear at the stars and I'm like so worked up 932 01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:13.280 and I'm screaming and yelling and crying and like just so worked up. And 933 01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:16.519 then like it kind of comes to night kind of kind she gets me back 934 01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:19.840 to what I'm like things are. And then and then at the very end, 935 01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:28.480 she goes and Mike, what is your connection with owls? And I 936 01:05:28.519 --> 01:05:30.920 didn't skip a beat? Right, So, have you ever heard hypnosis? 937 01:05:30.920 --> 01:05:34.440 Trans transcriber, listen to it like the hip. I've had it, I've 938 01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:38.400 done it. Oh really yeah, have you listen. It's like it's like 939 01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:41.639 someone asked the question. There's like a deathly alter and then and then you're 940 01:05:41.639 --> 01:05:44.880 just like this whisper and you kind of stammer or I do I kind of 941 01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:47.480 well, I don't know what's happening, Like that kind of thing happens. 942 01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:54.400 So so she says, and Mike, what is your connection to owls? 943 01:05:54.920 --> 01:05:59.239 And I say, the owls aren't important. I don't whisper it. I 944 01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:04.159 don't kind of I'm not stuttering. This is I'd like for the last twelve 945 01:06:04.239 --> 01:06:06.920 years, I've been getting up every morning in owls, owls, owls all 946 01:06:08.400 --> 01:06:12.360 day long, and I get the books on owls and like podcasts on owls. 947 01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:14.719 And guy talked to I went to the UFO conferences, stood it like, 948 01:06:15.440 --> 01:06:17.440 I like, that's all I talked about. Owls are the most important 949 01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:23.159 thing. That wasn't you talking, so I said, And then I said, 950 01:06:23.679 --> 01:06:27.920 I said, I am an artist and I know the meaning of a 951 01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:30.159 symbol. This is like, this is coming out of me, so I 952 01:06:30.440 --> 01:06:33.840 can do this totally risk. This is like just like seared into my psyche 953 01:06:34.159 --> 01:06:39.760 whoa, And I said, the owls aren't important. The owls are a 954 01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:45.000 symbol on a door. It is the door that is important. We day 955 01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:50.639 are on it is the correct symbol for the door. But the owl isn't 956 01:06:50.679 --> 01:06:56.880 important. We are on this side of the door in a tight, claustrophobic 957 01:06:56.920 --> 01:07:00.679 little hallway, and on the other side of the door or is an infinite 958 01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:08.159 vastness. Wow. And then I and I would like, I didn't know 959 01:07:08.199 --> 01:07:11.679 where that came from. That and she I actually said, do you think 960 01:07:11.679 --> 01:07:14.920 I was channeling? She said yeah, she had answer. She said, 961 01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:17.239 how do I know? Which I mean? I don't want to like interpret 962 01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:20.679 your experience or whatever. But my first take is like the doorway is an 963 01:07:20.679 --> 01:07:25.719 initiation. It's yeah, it's awakening. You know. I was thinking that 964 01:07:25.760 --> 01:07:29.159 earlier when you said the owl showed up when you and um, your friend 965 01:07:29.960 --> 01:07:31.840 um christ Ruth Chris, Yeah, when you were camping and you saw the 966 01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:38.639 owls Christine's first five letters of christ same as your Yeah, there you go, 967 01:07:38.760 --> 01:07:41.800 there go. I didn't even catch that. This is I'm like weird, 968 01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:46.280 like that said, that's not weird, that's noticing the patterns because here's 969 01:07:46.280 --> 01:07:50.920 the thing reality is. It's it's from the mind. It's there. There's 970 01:07:50.960 --> 01:07:54.440 one original mind. You know. If we want to talk about concepts of 971 01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:59.760 God, God is the original mind from which everything is a thought form emanating 972 01:07:59.800 --> 01:08:02.559 from that mind, you know. And like the closer you get to to 973 01:08:02.760 --> 01:08:06.199 interfacing with that mind or understanding it and how it works and operates, you 974 01:08:06.239 --> 01:08:11.840 start to have these crazy synchronicities in the world around you like that, and 975 01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:16.079 like with numbers and like letters and symbols and animals and nature and UFOs and 976 01:08:16.159 --> 01:08:20.239 it's it's all just it's it's all weird, you know. My dad says 977 01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:26.239 this. He says, you know, everything's magic, literally, everything's magic. 978 01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:29.079 But yeah, yeah, you were definitely awakened. That's the sense that 979 01:08:29.159 --> 01:08:33.640 I got. And uh wow, incredible story. Um, if you had 980 01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:35.640 one thing, I know, I said that was the last question. But 981 01:08:35.640 --> 01:08:40.239 if you had one thing, if everybody in the world was listening right now, 982 01:08:41.319 --> 01:08:44.199 what's the one thing that you feel like you would need to tell the 983 01:08:44.199 --> 01:08:50.720 world? M So a guy came up to me at a UFUL conference And 984 01:08:51.239 --> 01:08:54.800 this is early on. I was going to u FUL conferences and I was 985 01:08:54.840 --> 01:08:57.199 just I did it just to be around people that I could talk with. 986 01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:00.000 He said, so what brings you here? And I'm like, oh, 987 01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:01.600 I've had these experiences and on this and time, So well, how's your 988 01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:04.560 life different now they've had these experiences? I had to think for a love 989 01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:12.800 it. I said, I now live in a magical universe, which checks 990 01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:15.960 that was true, And that's what I would say. I would say, 991 01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:18.239 like, wow, you wet, you get whatever, You're just you gotta 992 01:09:18.279 --> 01:09:20.560 get your car fixed, and you gotta don't have enough money, and like 993 01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:24.159 checking it out, and there's like these normal day to day things that are 994 01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:30.039 hard, they're real, they're hard, but beneath it all parallel to at 995 01:09:30.079 --> 01:09:35.880 all that we live in a magical universe and if you are open to it, 996 01:09:35.439 --> 01:09:44.119 it's happening all the time all around. That's a beautiful message. I 997 01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:48.640 love that it's deep. Mike. Where can everybody find you? Your books, 998 01:09:49.079 --> 01:09:51.800 your website, wherever you want to direct people to go to find you? 999 01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:58.479 And please mention that, um, you can just google UFOs and owls 1000 01:09:58.479 --> 01:10:01.439 and I'll come right up. And if he's not lying, it's real. 1001 01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:04.000 I try. You don't need to know how to spell my last name, 1002 01:10:04.039 --> 01:10:06.279 which is C L E L L A and D. You can go to 1003 01:10:06.359 --> 01:10:12.199 Mike klelland dot com and from there you can get to the books and the 1004 01:10:12.319 --> 01:10:16.119 podcast and the blog and the so so um yeah, so that would be 1005 01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:17.880 the best place to start. Oh, I'm gonna do one thing. I'm 1006 01:10:17.880 --> 01:10:21.039 gonna push this thing which I'm I'm from Michigan, so I'm who do I 1007 01:10:21.079 --> 01:10:25.479 have it here? I don't. I'm just gonna get up for one second. 1008 01:10:25.760 --> 01:10:31.039 Yeah, that's fine. You take your time. Wow, dude, 1009 01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:35.079 I'm reading. I'm reading those books. I can't wait. I just this 1010 01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:41.319 is I just got this book is called The Unseen. It is a fiction 1011 01:10:41.439 --> 01:10:49.439 book. And oh, I like I lost, like I gave. So 1012 01:10:49.479 --> 01:10:53.399 I've been working as an illustrator for most of my life and I kind of 1013 01:10:53.520 --> 01:10:58.640 artist illustrator, creative type. Wow, I've never done a deep dive like 1014 01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:05.039 this, so I try. I wrote a book when you must know what 1015 01:11:05.079 --> 01:11:11.239 I mean here? Like like, people will tell me one owl story and 1016 01:11:11.279 --> 01:11:13.520 then the next day I'll hear another owl story. It's like, not quite 1017 01:11:13.560 --> 01:11:15.960 the same thing, right, Someone allow the detail with this, and then 1018 01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:20.119 another We'll have other details and one person will say, am I alone in 1019 01:11:20.119 --> 01:11:21.640 this? And I'm like, oh, no, no, I have heard 1020 01:11:21.640 --> 01:11:25.920 that. I have not heard that exact story, but I have heard so 1021 01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:29.600 many with the same flavor and mood. I can't I cannot tell you how 1022 01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:33.479 many times I've typed flavor and mood in an email to someone said, You're 1023 01:11:33.520 --> 01:11:38.439 not alone. So this. I tried to imbue this book as much as 1024 01:11:38.479 --> 01:11:43.479 I possibly could with that elusive flavor and mood. So I love that. 1025 01:11:43.840 --> 01:11:45.119 And you just put it out like last week in the week or the week 1026 01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:48.600 before correct a little lesson a month ago it came out. Yeah, so 1027 01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:53.520 and then and it's a UFO book. And I never say UFO. There's 1028 01:11:53.560 --> 01:11:57.960 never say abduction. I never say synchronicity. I purposely tried to make it 1029 01:11:58.000 --> 01:12:00.119 as I wanted. This is going to sound really weird, but I wanted 1030 01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:02.880 people to read the whole book and like it and enjoy it and then not 1031 01:12:02.960 --> 01:12:09.039 even know what it was about UFOs. Oh, that's esoteric. That's amazing. 1032 01:12:09.119 --> 01:12:11.399 Yeah. I don't know if I'm notified. I don't know if I 1033 01:12:11.479 --> 01:12:15.079 succeeded it or not. But that's what was Michael. It's called The Unseen. 1034 01:12:15.239 --> 01:12:18.239 That was the title, The Unseen. Yes, it's a yeah, 1035 01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:21.399 I just came out and the everybody go and check it out and unseen by 1036 01:12:21.479 --> 01:12:25.359 Mike Allen. And if you're gonna start anywhere with the Owl stuff, just 1037 01:12:25.399 --> 01:12:28.159 the first book, The Messengers would be the place to start. Yeah. 1038 01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:31.359 I already have a tab open on Amazon. I want to get that excellent. 1039 01:12:31.840 --> 01:12:35.720 Well, guys, this was such a thoughtful, very just riveting. 1040 01:12:35.800 --> 01:12:39.760 I mean, Mike, you're a great storyteller. Yeah, that was incredible, 1041 01:12:39.880 --> 01:12:43.319 truly, and as good as you are, you know, orally dictating 1042 01:12:43.359 --> 01:12:46.399 your stories, I imagine you have to be a fantastic writer. So guys, 1043 01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:49.279 please check them out, give them some support. We do have a 1044 01:12:49.279 --> 01:12:53.079 tradition on our show. I know you've seen it because you've seen the show. 1045 01:12:53.119 --> 01:12:55.800 We liked to round out by saying, by guys, So if you 1046 01:12:55.800 --> 01:13:01.520 don't mind completing our ritualistic tradition with us on the one, two three, 1047 01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:09.760 by guys, weird things happen in the backyard of what so House said over 1048 01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:27.920 us descending God's so weird coming closer to players industry up like spiraling on the 1049 01:13:27.960 --> 01:13:53.479 inside of it. No one knows, Wow, it's come River shin