You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas.
I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now
trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other
victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway
murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with
Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher,
a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media
manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in
crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Over Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly.
That makes me Bill Thomas. And it's been a crazy twenty four hours,
hasn't it, Bill Thomas. Yeah, I'm exhausted. Yesterday was an adrenaline
high. Today, the reality of the developments and the Colonial park Ray murders
are beginning to settle in and we are getting deluged with information which we will
be trying to sort out and pass along to law enforcement to help keep the
forward momentum of the Colonial Parkway murders happening. For everybody who immediately asked,
what are you guys going to put an episode out? We hope this is
what you had in mind. We're doing our best. But as Bill said,
it's been an adrenaline pact twenty four hours. And I was so amped
when I got home yesterday and I couldn't settle that. I had to go
for a run around the neighborhood at top speed and I still wasn't able to
bleed off all of it. Yeah, I will admit quite exhausted on Monday
because I actually knew this was coming. And Sunday night I usually sleep really
well. I'm one of those frustrating people that just fly down, go to
sleep, sleep through the night. I figure, if you're going to spend
a third of your life doing something, why not try to get good at
it. Pamela, my partner, teases me about being an incredibly good sleeper
and she wishes she could follow suit. However, Sunday night was not one
of those nights. First of all, Sunday evening, my phone started blowing
up with people reaching out to me to let me know that people that lived
in Lancaster, Virginia were aware the fact that the FBI had conducted a raid
up in that part of Virginia, which is about an hour and fifteen minutes
or so north of Williamsburg. Yeah, this beautiful area that I've never been
to, but I've looked at online up near the Rappahannock River. It's called
the Northern Neck, and I had to look all this stuff up. Somebody
asked me today, We've been hearing from a ton of people with information which
the FBI is seeking. We're doing our best to help the FBI and the
Virginia State Police move these cases forward. People have been reaching out to me,
and one of the questions that someone asked me today was have you ever
been to the Northern Neck? And I said, nope, have you ever
been up there? I have not often, but I think Mark and I
decided to take a very random road trip there a couple of months back.
I don't remember for why. I think we were just looking for a really
good burger, of all things, and we were in a rut and decided,
you know what, let's just go someplace else, anyplace else, and
let's go see if we can find a good interesting restaurant to eat at.
Sometimes we'll just go places looking for good restaurants. Got it. It is
very pretty up there. Yeah, so let's get into why we might be
talking about the Northern Neck with a little bit of a conversation about January eighth,
twenty twenty four's press conference with developments in the Colonial Parkway murders. So
you knew this was coming. I had an inkling, and I remember calling
you the night before and saying, I don't want to get your hopes up,
but and you were like, no, go ahead, and I said,
I just heard there's going to be a press conference tomorrow, and the
two of us figured out, okay, it's probably about these cases in the
Colonial Parkway, at least some of the Colonial Parkway cases. I remember waiting
on pins and needles all morning for you to text me and say, hey,
there's going to be a press conference at one, and then it was
wait till pins and needles until one thirty. But when we finally got to
one thirty yesterday, the Virginia State Police, the FBI, and several other
law enforcement agencies held this press conference to announce that they had they classified it
as major updates in cold case homicides, and at that point they announced that
Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior of Kilmarnick, Virginia, who is now deceased,
was responsible for the the deaths of Robin Edwards and David Nobling on Ragged Island
in nineteen eighty seven and Teresa Howell in Hampton in nineteen eighty nine. And
that was a bombshell. It sure was off the bat. Something struck me
as odd and still does, which is the announcement regarding the press conference did
not highlight the Colonial Parkway murders. In speaking to reporters, I did some
interviews yesterday and today. We want to keep the focus primarily on the three
families. Of course, the families of Robin Edwards, David Nobling and Teresa
Howell. I was also asked to do some interviews. Some of the reporters
were looking for kind of a general reaction to the news and how the other
families felt about how this might help move the rest of the Colonial Parkway murders
forward. But one of the things that the reporters told me was wasn't very
clear that they were going to be discussing the Colonial Parkway murders, and there
was even an odd reference to Isle of Wight, which is Isle of Wight
County, again without really highlighting the fact that we're going to be talking about
Robin Edwards and David Nobling, one of the four double homicides in the Colonial
Parkway murders. We talked about that when I was leaving school to come back
home to watch the press conference, and I was wondering because they hadn't said
anything in the press release about Colonial Parkway murders. We've speculated, you and
I that maybe they were burying the lead on this and that they wanted to
maybe make the announcement and then say, oh, and we have tied him
to X number of other cases in the Colonial Parkway murders. Obviously they didn't
do that, but I also was curious, like, why did they not
immediately say two of the Colonial Parkway murders cases have been linked to this guy.
It's quite curious. So what did we learn about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior,
who is the suspect in question. We learned that this guy is a
waterman from the Northern Neck, which is why we were discussing the Northern Neck.
He's described as transient, often living on his wooden boat, the Denny
Wade, and that's named for two of his kids who'd be grown ups by
this point, Denny and Wade. He spent time on the York River and
this I think is very important, and often docked in Gloucester and Hampton.
This is really important. He drove a blue nineteen sixty six Dodge Fargo truck
with a custom license plate that said em raw as in edam Raw. Keeping
in mind, this guy is a crabber fisherman and most importantly an oysterman,
so the em raw, in addition into being a sexually explicit suggestive license plate,
also refers to oysters. One would assumed I took it to a much
different, darker place, which probably says a lot about me. Perhaps Alan
Wade Wilmer Senior. It's very important to make that senior distinction because he has
a son who has the exact same name, who's Alan Wade Wilmer Junior,
who would have been, by the way, about eight years old at the
time of the Colonial Parkway murders. So he's a grown man now, but
he was a little kid back then, and he was absolutely horrified to learn
this about his father. I feel really terrible for his family having to learn
that your father is a monster essentially. Yeah, I feel really terrible for
them. This vehicle, this sixty six Dodge Fargo truck, was very dis
because remember he is driving this truck as recently as the nineteen eighties, and
the truck has equipment that's attached to it which is designed for hauling, equipment
used in fishing, crabbing, and oyster pulling. You can tell I don't
know a lot about how oysters are harvested. Oyster and it is just how
you say it, but this truck is incredibly important. And one of the
things we're going to be emphasizing here on mind Over Murder is the FBI and
the Virginia State Police and the Hampton Police Department and local law enforcement have asked
for your help. They want to hear from people who recognize this very distinctive
truck. It's old and faded. I would describe the color as blue green.
It had writing on the doors of the truck, and of course the
em raw eden raw license plate, and then all of the equipment. They
almost look like a tow truck would look like with the these big tongs.
I'm told they're called that extend out and are used for oystering. This truck
is really important. Further, Alan Wade Wilmer Sr. And his appearance are
very distinctive. He's five foot five inches tall, so he is I think
the average American male is about five foot ten. I'm happened to be six
feet tall, so he is seven inches shorter than I am. And I
don't think I don't look like an extraordinarily tall guy. I think I look
fairly average in height. He's five foot five, very muscular, who weighs
one hundred and sixty five pounds. So if you saw this man in this
very distinctive truck, that's pretty memorable. And then if you saw him outside
his vehicle walking around or working or whatever, he's very short, really out
of the ordinary, and he's very stocky. His nickname was Pokey, and
he almost sounds like a cartoon character. When I heard him described, I
thought, this guy almost sounds like Popeye. This little guy with these big
arms is got to be a very striking figure. We've got pictures in our
show notes of Allan Wade Wilmer Sr. The folks from law enforcement did a
fantastic job. They had a whole photo array of what he looked like at
various times over the years. Yeah, which is incredibly helpful as a younger
man, all the way up to when he was somewhat older and he died
at age sixty three, which we'll get into in a minute. And then
they've got great pictures of the truck, the license plate. This should help
people. He was a very avid outdoorsman. He was a hunter, a
fisherman. What they're looking for are people that may have hunted and fished with
him. Keeping in mind, one of the four Colonial Parkway murders, that
of Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower, took place at a hunt club.
I know that law enforcement is looking into could he have been a guest at
that hunt club that's the one off Interstate sixty four. If he was coming
down to the Gloucester Hampton area, he might have come down sixty four from
the Northern Neck. That hunt club, where Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower's
bodies were found in nineteen eighty nine, would have been a place that he
might have passed. And we're wondering if he might have ever hunted or socialized
with the members of that Hunt club. So the background needed for the life,
if you will, of Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, is very much needed.
Right now. People are really coming forward and contacting us, and I've
been talking to a number of people online trying to catch up on the calls
and texts. I know the same thing is happening with Joyce called Canada and
other family members. We really want to try to push these folks to talk
to the FBI and the Virginia State Police because they need more information about this
guy. Yes, absolutely, and they are better equipped with the tip lines
and everything to handle the kind of volume that we're getting. I know that
you're rather overwhelmed with it right at the moment, So we do want to
stress to folks, thank you very much for reaching out. We really do
appreciate that. As the FBI, I'm sure would like us to stress we
are not investigators. We are not equipped to handle the volume of tips that
are coming in. Please, by all means, make sure that you send
that information to the FBI the Virginia State Police. We will put links to
everything on our show notes, and you're welcome to give the information to us
as well, But please do you send it to the FBI or the VSP
first. They really need that information and they can do a whole lot more
with it than too humble podcasters, both of whom have day jobs and can't,
unfortunately go out and do the amount of sleuthing that we would like to
do. The investigators know what they're looking for. They are definitely looking to
fill in some blanks on this man's life. He died of natural causes at
home in December twenty seventeen. As a result of his death, his body
was not discovered for quite some time, and he'd gone into an advanced state
of decomposition, which is again a very sad way to die. When somebody
dies in a situation like that and they're in an advanced state of decomposition as
he was, they take a DNA sample to confirm is this actually the person
we think it should be, and they were able to confirm his identity.
Later on, when law enforcement was looking for more information about this potential sub
suspect in the Colonial Parkway murders, they were able to request and receive a
copy of his DNA report that led to the discoveries that were announced at the
press conference. Yesterday. I know that I, like everyone else who was
watching, was holding my breath to see what they were going to say with
regard to connections to the other Colonial Parkway murders cases. I want to quote
directly from my transcript of the press conference here because I think it's very important
that everybody hears the wording used, and I know not everybody was able to
stream that live on their computer or their phone. And this is from the
joint press conference on January eighth, and the person speaking was Corinne Geller,
who is the pr person for Virginia State place. Many in the region will
recognize that the Isle of Wight double homicide as one that occurred during a series
of double homicides collectively known as the Colonial Parkway murders. Although the similarities in
these double homicides, which spanned a three year period, cannot be ignored,
at this time, there is no forensic or physical evidence to link the Isle
of White County homicides to those other double murders. The remaining double homicides,
the two in York County that occurred on the Colonial Parkway and the one that
occurred in New Kent County, are still active. Investigations and our combined investigative
efforts continue. End quote. Let me push back a little bit here,
go ahead. First of all, I don't know why the Virginia State Police
and the FBI are suddenly referring to the murder of Robin Edwards and David Nobling
as the isle of white homicides. Nobody calls them that. This distancing language,
in my opinion, seems to be actually separating them from the colonial Parkway
murders. Also note the fact that they use the expression no forensic or physical
evidence. If anything, the identification of this suspect confirms that Robin Edwards and
David Knoblings murder is directly related to the disappearance of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley,
because we know that Allen Wade Wilmer was a leading suspect in the disappearance
of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley. So I don't understand why the law enforcement
spokespeople, and there were a number of them, and they did a great
job, but why they're parsing things in this very odd way. I do
understand, as someone who's been following this case for thirty seven years, that
we currently have no for ransick or physical evidence that links the four double homicides
in the Colonial Parkway murders together. In other words, it's all circumstantial.
But if anything, this identification of this suspect confirms that Robin Edwards and David
Nobling are part of the Colonial Parkway murders. And I actually don't appreciate law
enforcement suddenly calling this the isle of white homicides. They are not the isle
of white homicides. Robin Edwards and David Nobling were killed in a series of
murders that are referred to commonly as the Colonial Parkway murders, and this announcement
confirms that. So I want to follow that up by continuing with another statement
that they made from Again, this is Karen Gellar, She stated quote or
we recognize this announcement has been a long time coming, especially for the families
of these victims. What we do hope is to provide some closure to them,
and we recognize that there are still other families related to the Colonial Parkway
murders double homicide victims who are still hoping for answers. That is why we
continue to push forward with our investigations. We are not ruling anything out.
We are examining other cases and pursuing new ones. Our agencies are still working
to reconstruct the movements and encounters of Alan Wilmer Senior, which is why we
are asking for the public's help. Bill. What did you make of We
are not ruling anything out. We are examining other cases. We are pursuing
new ones. That's three interesting pieces of assertion right there. I really appreciate
what Kareem Geller and the other spokespeople are saying. I think this is quite
important. First of all, I am highly confident based on what I know
about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. I think he will be linked to other unsolved
homicides in Virginia. I think he is participation in at least some of the
other Colonial Parkway murders. Should be confirmed and fairly soon. He was a
suspect in the disappearance of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley, and that's an unavoidable
fact. I know that the media is starting to cover this idea that it's
very curious that the FBI and the renew State Police are not highlighting that in
their announcement, and I find it a bit off putting. Yeah, the
way we were talking earlier. I don't think it's curious. I think that
they're trying to hide the fact that they screwed up very badly. The information
about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior and his early involvement as a suspect in the disappearance
of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley comes from the book of record on this case,
A Special Kind of Evil by our friend Blame Pardo. We're looking forward
to having Blame Pardo on Mind Over Murder with us in the very near future.
I spoke to Blaine this morning and he is more than willing to come
on and give us more background on his reporting in A Special Kind of Evil.
The Colonial Parkway Serial Killings, the book that Blaine Pardo wrote with his
daughter Victoria Hester. If you don't own this book, I urge you to
buy a copy of it. It's available online in both hard copy and in
electronic form ebook as well. We're going to be asking Blaine to come on
the show and talk to us. The short version is that he confirms that
this man, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. He doesn't mention him by name at
this time, but he mentions the license plate which he changes slightly because he
didn't want people to be taking it upon themselves to be looking up this guy's
license plate information and perhaps harassing an innocent man. He was a suspect from
the very beginning of the investigation into the disappearance of Keith Colin Cassandra Haley.
Very odd that this was not highlighted at the press conference. You're listening to
Mind over Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors.
We're back here at mindover Murder now. When Special Agent in Charge Brian Dugan
of the FBI stood up to speak at the press conference, he did go
into great detail as to what precisely he is asking the public to look for
when they send in tip information. I want to quote for a moment here
from sac Dugan on behalf of the FBI. I want to express my sincere
condolences to the victims' families. That is why we're asking the public to take
a good look at the suspects photos. If you had any encounters with him
or his vehicle or his watercraft, hunted with him, farmed oysters or clams
docked next to him, spent time with him on a personal basis we want
to hear from you. We are also interested in hearing from the public about
areas where Wilmer was working as a fisherman and as a tree cutter, locations
where he may have been known to hunt, or bars, clubs and lounges.
He frequented a piece of information, no matter how small, could be
useful to investigators. He gives all the information about the tip lines, which
we'll put up on our show notes, and then he had this very interesting
thing to say here. We recognize relationships and loyalties change over time, as
do people and their perspectives. There are occasions when people who may have had
information of a crime do not feel comfortable coming forward with that information. This
may have been due to relationship with the persons involved, or out of concern
for their own safety, reputation, or standing amongst friends. Even though mister
Wilmer is deceased, we want you to know it is not too late to
come forward. And again he repeats the FBI tip information and that FBI tip
line is one eight hundred call FBI or submit a tip online at tips dot
FBI dot gov. You also have the option, if you choose to want
to somebody from the Virginia State Police. You can email them at Questions at
VSP dot Virginia dot gov. And we really want to encourage people if you
know anything about this man. Now is the time. I thought sac Dugan's
remarks were very well thought out, and I totally agree with him. We've
heard this in other cases. Over time, relationships change, People get married,
they get divorced, people are born, people die, people get older,
and calm down. I'm still working on the calming down part. People
have said to me even today online that some of them were reluctant to come
forward, and all I can say is, look, I get the fact
that this man is never going to be brought into court. He's never going
to be found guilty, punished, incarcerated. But there are still people,
my own family included, who are still waiting for answers. We're thrilled that
Robin Edwards, David Nobling, and Teresa Howell's family have some answers. It's
never going to bring their loved ones back. The rest of the Colonial Parkway
murders families and other families I believe throughout Virginia are still looking for answers in
their unsolved murders and disappearances, and I think this man is involved in those
cases. There is no question. At this point he's been confirmed with three
kills. We're dealing with a Virginia based serial killer. Now would be the
time to step forward and say, yeah, I used to dock my boat
in Gloucester and that guy had this very distinctive fishing boat, the Denny Wade.
It has very splashy painting on the side with the names of the two
kids, Denny Wade. That would have been memorable not to mention as we
talked about his trucks, his physical stature, his look. I think sac
Dugan makes a really good point that even though he's gone, there can be
so much value created with people coming forward now and speaking to law enforcement.
People can speak to law enforcement without incriminating themselves. They can say I want
to tell you the story, but I don't want to be charged for something,
or look the fact that you were involved in something that might have been
questionable, whether it's underage drinking or drug use or whatever. Law enforcement is
trying to solve these cases. Do not charge people for ancient offenses that happened
decades ago. If you knew this man back in the nineteen eighties. Now's
the time to step forward exactly. And sac Jiggan made a good point about
no piece of information being too small. So Okay, maybe you only docked
your boat next to his, maybe you only ever ran into him when you
were cutting trees after Hurricane Hugo. That is still information that the FBI needs
to know. You do not have to have knowledge of Alan Wilmer Senior committing
a crime to call in or write to the tip line. Right now,
they need the best fullest picture possible of what this guy was doing, where
he was going, who he was hanging with. As Bill pointed out,
he is a serial killer. The current definition of a serial killer is two
or more kills. He fits that criteria. There was a serial killer roaming
this area of Virginia from nineteen eighty six until the day he died in twenty
seventeen. We have to know what he was doing during that time period.
And the more people that come forward with information, the better able the Bureau
is going to be to put together a picture of other potential victims that may
have been impacted by this guy. And I think you're right, Bill,
I think that there are going to be other cases in the Colonial Parkway murders
that are ultimately going to be linked to this guy. And I'm wondering if
the other Parkway adjacent cases that we have seen in recent years, like Lorien
Powell and Brian Pettinger, I'm wondering if they aren't going to be linked to
him too in some way, shape or form. Yeah, it's quite possible.
One of the things that's really important to emphasize, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior
had no arrest record. He'd never been convicted of a crime, even though
this guy was involved in multiple murders. And I think there'll be murders outside
the Colonial Parkway murders, as you said, that can be linked to him.
Something as simple as I remember him being at my hunt club, or
he came and cut down trees on my father's property, or whatever it is.
Remember, the investigators know what they're looking for. They're looking to place
him at certain times and locations, and that may ultimately steer them towards creating
a backstory on where this man was. I recognize that this is incredibly challenging
for the investigators to be trying to rebuild this history. Thirty seven years later,
every single bit of information. If you know anything about this guy,
I've already heard some very interesting stories which will be urging those people to pass
on to law enforcement. Failing that, I will if I have to just
get the information to law enforcement so that they have this information. We also
want to encourage any one who has ever reached out to us with a story
about an incident that occurred to you on the Colonial Parkway. If you have
a feeling that the person that you saw on the Colonial Parkway, the person
who's truck you encountered, was Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, please reach out to
the investigators and let them know so that they can place him on the parkway.
It is very important that we determine whether or not he was out trolling
the Colonial Parkway during this time period. If so, that might be an
even better and closer connection to putting him in the location and vicinity of the
murders on the Parkway, that of Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski, Keith Call
and Cassandra Haley. So, if you have given us that information about run
ins on the Parkway in years past, we thank you very much for that,
but we encourage you to please take that information as well and get it
to law enforcement in what to reform you feel comfortable it is vital that they
have this information. We don't mean to ignore the Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel
Lower murder that occurred in August nineteen eighty nine, resulting in their bodies being
found at the Hunt Club off Interstate sixty four in New Kent County. This
is something that law enforcement is also very interested in because obviously he fits the
profile and now we have a confirmed serial killer in Virginia. I know it's
shocking, and we're still absorbing this information ourselves. We don't know of any
additional links that he has to my sister Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski's murder,
or the murder New Kent County rest stop and Hunt Club, Anna Maria Phelps
and Daniel Lower. There's clearly a link to the disappearance of Keith coll and
Cassandra Haley, and I know they're going to be working those angles hard in
the coming weeks and months and will be definitely reording back on what we're learning,
what we're hearing. We're looking forward to having blamed Pardo on the podcast.
It's long overdue to talk about his work in the Colonial Parkway murders and
you know, get into some backstory with him as well. On this new
he's more than a suspect. He is a confirmed serial killer. Twenty four
hours on. It's been a wild ride. Again. We want to thank
everybody who has reached out, who's cheered, who's shared all of our updates.
Thank you for your unwavering support. We are trying very hard to answer
questions and comments as they show up on our various pages. Mind never Murder
and Colonial Parkway murders. It's been a deluge and it may take us a
little bit to get through all of those comments and questions. Please be patient
with us and know that we are seeing everything. We are trying to respond
to it where possible, but a little bit. It's like trying to empty
the ocean with a symbol. At the moment, there's a lot there.
Yeah, and I said something to Kristin yesterday, which is all I can
say regarding the Edwards, Nobbling and Howell families, is that we're thinking of
it. Yeah. I don't think there's a greeting card available out there that
says congratulations on finding out who killed your loved one. It's just one of
those situations where you just don't know what to say. Yeah. The main
picture on the Daily Press this morning was a picture of Jeanette Edward Santiago,
Robin's sister, at the press conference yesterday, and it broke my heart ye
to see it. I know that she's thrilled to have this information, and
it's got to be a relief that it doesn't bring Robin or David or Teresa
back, and I know that's got to be difficult for them. So while
we're thrilled on their behalf, we know that they're probably dealing with a crazy
amount of emotion right now. And their family statement at the press conference did
ask for people please to extend them their privacy, and the same went for
the Howell families, and the same went for the Wilmer family, who I'm
sure is dealing with an absolutely awful shock of learning who their father actually was.
I think, at the end of the day, what I'm carrying with
me and will continue to carry with me, is the fact that we have
two cases that are solved, they have answers, and I'm I was a
little afraid I wasn't going to see the day. Yeah for real. So
thank you to everybody who has continued to hang in there with us, who
is following our Facebook pages and all of our social media. Please keep it
up and please it is so vitally important share all of the information that we
put up about this suspect. And if you have information, please do not
hesitate to go to any law enforcement tipline that is available to you. We
will put all that information up on our show notes. We can't thank everybody
enough. It's been a roller coaster, but I like roller coasters, so
hey, I'm willing to go for the ride on this one. Fair enough.
That is going to do it for this episode of mind Over Murder.
Thank you so much for listening, and please stay tuned for more updates on
the Colonial Parkway murders and the Parkway adjacent cases. Thank you so much for
listening. We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of
Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin
Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by
Kevin McLoud. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media.
You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also
follow our page on the Colonial Parkway murders on Facebook, and finally, you
can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six. Thank you
for listening to Mind Over Murder