1
00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280
You're listening to the Mind Over Murder
podcast. My name is Bill Thomas.

2
00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080
I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now

3
00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039
trying to use my experience as the
brother of a murder victim to help other

4
00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280
victims of violent crime. I'm working
on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway

5
00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,760
murders and I'm the co administrator of
the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with

6
00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:29,120
Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin
Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher,

7
00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,840
a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media

8
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,880
manager and co administrator for the Colonial
Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in

9
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:44,479
crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to
Mind Over Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly.

10
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:50,119
That makes me Bill Thomas. And
it's been a crazy twenty four hours,

11
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:56,039
hasn't it, Bill Thomas. Yeah, I'm exhausted. Yesterday was an adrenaline

12
00:00:56,119 --> 00:01:00,439
high. Today, the reality of
the developments and the Colonial park Ray murders

13
00:01:00,799 --> 00:01:07,879
are beginning to settle in and we
are getting deluged with information which we will

14
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,680
be trying to sort out and pass
along to law enforcement to help keep the

15
00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:17,840
forward momentum of the Colonial Parkway murders
happening. For everybody who immediately asked,

16
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,079
what are you guys going to put
an episode out? We hope this is

17
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,280
what you had in mind. We're
doing our best. But as Bill said,

18
00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,599
it's been an adrenaline pact twenty four
hours. And I was so amped

19
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,799
when I got home yesterday and I
couldn't settle that. I had to go

20
00:01:33,879 --> 00:01:38,120
for a run around the neighborhood at
top speed and I still wasn't able to

21
00:01:38,159 --> 00:01:42,319
bleed off all of it. Yeah, I will admit quite exhausted on Monday

22
00:01:42,359 --> 00:01:49,319
because I actually knew this was coming. And Sunday night I usually sleep really

23
00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:52,239
well. I'm one of those frustrating
people that just fly down, go to

24
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,239
sleep, sleep through the night.
I figure, if you're going to spend

25
00:01:56,239 --> 00:01:59,040
a third of your life doing something, why not try to get good at

26
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:04,840
it. Pamela, my partner,
teases me about being an incredibly good sleeper

27
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,000
and she wishes she could follow suit. However, Sunday night was not one

28
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:14,439
of those nights. First of all, Sunday evening, my phone started blowing

29
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,439
up with people reaching out to me
to let me know that people that lived

30
00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:24,000
in Lancaster, Virginia were aware the
fact that the FBI had conducted a raid

31
00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,039
up in that part of Virginia,
which is about an hour and fifteen minutes

32
00:02:29,199 --> 00:02:34,319
or so north of Williamsburg. Yeah, this beautiful area that I've never been

33
00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,360
to, but I've looked at online
up near the Rappahannock River. It's called

34
00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,759
the Northern Neck, and I had
to look all this stuff up. Somebody

35
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,520
asked me today, We've been hearing
from a ton of people with information which

36
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,719
the FBI is seeking. We're doing
our best to help the FBI and the

37
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,039
Virginia State Police move these cases forward. People have been reaching out to me,

38
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,919
and one of the questions that someone
asked me today was have you ever

39
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,639
been to the Northern Neck? And
I said, nope, have you ever

40
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:07,039
been up there? I have not
often, but I think Mark and I

41
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:12,680
decided to take a very random road
trip there a couple of months back.

42
00:03:12,719 --> 00:03:16,840
I don't remember for why. I
think we were just looking for a really

43
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:22,719
good burger, of all things,
and we were in a rut and decided,

44
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,439
you know what, let's just go
someplace else, anyplace else, and

45
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,639
let's go see if we can find
a good interesting restaurant to eat at.

46
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,639
Sometimes we'll just go places looking for
good restaurants. Got it. It is

47
00:03:34,759 --> 00:03:38,840
very pretty up there. Yeah,
so let's get into why we might be

48
00:03:38,879 --> 00:03:44,520
talking about the Northern Neck with a
little bit of a conversation about January eighth,

49
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:50,840
twenty twenty four's press conference with developments
in the Colonial Parkway murders. So

50
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,800
you knew this was coming. I
had an inkling, and I remember calling

51
00:03:55,879 --> 00:04:00,240
you the night before and saying,
I don't want to get your hopes up,

52
00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:02,120
but and you were like, no, go ahead, and I said,

53
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,840
I just heard there's going to be
a press conference tomorrow, and the

54
00:04:04,919 --> 00:04:11,479
two of us figured out, okay, it's probably about these cases in the

55
00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,040
Colonial Parkway, at least some of
the Colonial Parkway cases. I remember waiting

56
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,959
on pins and needles all morning for
you to text me and say, hey,

57
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,279
there's going to be a press conference
at one, and then it was

58
00:04:24,759 --> 00:04:29,240
wait till pins and needles until one
thirty. But when we finally got to

59
00:04:29,319 --> 00:04:35,680
one thirty yesterday, the Virginia State
Police, the FBI, and several other

60
00:04:35,879 --> 00:04:44,839
law enforcement agencies held this press conference
to announce that they had they classified it

61
00:04:44,879 --> 00:04:50,160
as major updates in cold case homicides, and at that point they announced that

62
00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:58,319
Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior of Kilmarnick, Virginia, who is now deceased,

63
00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,120
was responsible for the the deaths of
Robin Edwards and David Nobling on Ragged Island

64
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:10,600
in nineteen eighty seven and Teresa Howell
in Hampton in nineteen eighty nine. And

65
00:05:10,639 --> 00:05:15,079
that was a bombshell. It sure
was off the bat. Something struck me

66
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:21,680
as odd and still does, which
is the announcement regarding the press conference did

67
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:28,240
not highlight the Colonial Parkway murders.
In speaking to reporters, I did some

68
00:05:28,399 --> 00:05:33,600
interviews yesterday and today. We want
to keep the focus primarily on the three

69
00:05:33,639 --> 00:05:39,560
families. Of course, the families
of Robin Edwards, David Nobling and Teresa

70
00:05:39,639 --> 00:05:44,040
Howell. I was also asked to
do some interviews. Some of the reporters

71
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,639
were looking for kind of a general
reaction to the news and how the other

72
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:54,240
families felt about how this might help
move the rest of the Colonial Parkway murders

73
00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:59,680
forward. But one of the things
that the reporters told me was wasn't very

74
00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:04,759
clear that they were going to be
discussing the Colonial Parkway murders, and there

75
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:10,279
was even an odd reference to Isle
of Wight, which is Isle of Wight

76
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:15,720
County, again without really highlighting the
fact that we're going to be talking about

77
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,519
Robin Edwards and David Nobling, one
of the four double homicides in the Colonial

78
00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:26,839
Parkway murders. We talked about that
when I was leaving school to come back

79
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,959
home to watch the press conference,
and I was wondering because they hadn't said

80
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,160
anything in the press release about Colonial
Parkway murders. We've speculated, you and

81
00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:39,120
I that maybe they were burying the
lead on this and that they wanted to

82
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,240
maybe make the announcement and then say, oh, and we have tied him

83
00:06:43,319 --> 00:06:46,519
to X number of other cases in
the Colonial Parkway murders. Obviously they didn't

84
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,920
do that, but I also was
curious, like, why did they not

85
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:56,319
immediately say two of the Colonial Parkway
murders cases have been linked to this guy.

86
00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,600
It's quite curious. So what did
we learn about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior,

87
00:07:01,879 --> 00:07:06,720
who is the suspect in question.
We learned that this guy is a

88
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:12,720
waterman from the Northern Neck, which
is why we were discussing the Northern Neck.

89
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:18,439
He's described as transient, often living
on his wooden boat, the Denny

90
00:07:18,879 --> 00:07:24,959
Wade, and that's named for two
of his kids who'd be grown ups by

91
00:07:24,959 --> 00:07:29,720
this point, Denny and Wade.
He spent time on the York River and

92
00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:35,079
this I think is very important,
and often docked in Gloucester and Hampton.

93
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:45,279
This is really important. He drove
a blue nineteen sixty six Dodge Fargo truck

94
00:07:45,639 --> 00:07:53,639
with a custom license plate that said
em raw as in edam Raw. Keeping

95
00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:58,040
in mind, this guy is a
crabber fisherman and most importantly an oysterman,

96
00:07:58,279 --> 00:08:03,920
so the em raw, in addition
into being a sexually explicit suggestive license plate,

97
00:08:05,959 --> 00:08:09,519
also refers to oysters. One would
assumed I took it to a much

98
00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:16,160
different, darker place, which probably
says a lot about me. Perhaps Alan

99
00:08:16,519 --> 00:08:24,759
Wade Wilmer Senior. It's very important
to make that senior distinction because he has

100
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:30,360
a son who has the exact same
name, who's Alan Wade Wilmer Junior,

101
00:08:30,399 --> 00:08:33,200
who would have been, by the
way, about eight years old at the

102
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,120
time of the Colonial Parkway murders.
So he's a grown man now, but

103
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,759
he was a little kid back then, and he was absolutely horrified to learn

104
00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:46,679
this about his father. I feel
really terrible for his family having to learn

105
00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:52,000
that your father is a monster essentially. Yeah, I feel really terrible for

106
00:08:52,080 --> 00:09:00,000
them. This vehicle, this sixty
six Dodge Fargo truck, was very dis

107
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,600
because remember he is driving this truck
as recently as the nineteen eighties, and

108
00:09:03,639 --> 00:09:09,799
the truck has equipment that's attached to
it which is designed for hauling, equipment

109
00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:16,360
used in fishing, crabbing, and
oyster pulling. You can tell I don't

110
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,639
know a lot about how oysters are
harvested. Oyster and it is just how

111
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,960
you say it, but this truck
is incredibly important. And one of the

112
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,120
things we're going to be emphasizing here
on mind Over Murder is the FBI and

113
00:09:28,159 --> 00:09:33,919
the Virginia State Police and the Hampton
Police Department and local law enforcement have asked

114
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:41,679
for your help. They want to
hear from people who recognize this very distinctive

115
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,360
truck. It's old and faded.
I would describe the color as blue green.

116
00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,440
It had writing on the doors of
the truck, and of course the

117
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,919
em raw eden raw license plate,
and then all of the equipment. They

118
00:09:54,919 --> 00:10:01,279
almost look like a tow truck would
look like with the these big tongs.

119
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,120
I'm told they're called that extend out
and are used for oystering. This truck

120
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:11,960
is really important. Further, Alan
Wade Wilmer Sr. And his appearance are

121
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,399
very distinctive. He's five foot five
inches tall, so he is I think

122
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,759
the average American male is about five
foot ten. I'm happened to be six

123
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,279
feet tall, so he is seven
inches shorter than I am. And I

124
00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:31,080
don't think I don't look like an
extraordinarily tall guy. I think I look

125
00:10:31,159 --> 00:10:35,039
fairly average in height. He's five
foot five, very muscular, who weighs

126
00:10:35,039 --> 00:10:41,200
one hundred and sixty five pounds.
So if you saw this man in this

127
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:46,960
very distinctive truck, that's pretty memorable. And then if you saw him outside

128
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:52,799
his vehicle walking around or working or
whatever, he's very short, really out

129
00:10:52,799 --> 00:10:58,279
of the ordinary, and he's very
stocky. His nickname was Pokey, and

130
00:10:58,639 --> 00:11:01,879
he almost sounds like a cartoon character. When I heard him described, I

131
00:11:01,879 --> 00:11:05,759
thought, this guy almost sounds like
Popeye. This little guy with these big

132
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:11,639
arms is got to be a very
striking figure. We've got pictures in our

133
00:11:11,759 --> 00:11:18,200
show notes of Allan Wade Wilmer Sr. The folks from law enforcement did a

134
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,639
fantastic job. They had a whole
photo array of what he looked like at

135
00:11:22,759 --> 00:11:26,600
various times over the years. Yeah, which is incredibly helpful as a younger

136
00:11:26,639 --> 00:11:31,559
man, all the way up to
when he was somewhat older and he died

137
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,480
at age sixty three, which we'll
get into in a minute. And then

138
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:39,639
they've got great pictures of the truck, the license plate. This should help

139
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:46,480
people. He was a very avid
outdoorsman. He was a hunter, a

140
00:11:46,519 --> 00:11:54,320
fisherman. What they're looking for are
people that may have hunted and fished with

141
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,039
him. Keeping in mind, one
of the four Colonial Parkway murders, that

142
00:11:58,159 --> 00:12:01,919
of Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower, took place at a hunt club.

143
00:12:03,639 --> 00:12:07,840
I know that law enforcement is looking
into could he have been a guest at

144
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,039
that hunt club that's the one off
Interstate sixty four. If he was coming

145
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:18,279
down to the Gloucester Hampton area,
he might have come down sixty four from

146
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,679
the Northern Neck. That hunt club, where Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower's

147
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,240
bodies were found in nineteen eighty nine, would have been a place that he

148
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:31,799
might have passed. And we're wondering
if he might have ever hunted or socialized

149
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,559
with the members of that Hunt club. So the background needed for the life,

150
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:43,519
if you will, of Alan Wade
Wilmer Senior, is very much needed.

151
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,039
Right now. People are really coming
forward and contacting us, and I've

152
00:12:48,039 --> 00:12:54,360
been talking to a number of people
online trying to catch up on the calls

153
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,039
and texts. I know the same
thing is happening with Joyce called Canada and

154
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:03,240
other family members. We really want
to try to push these folks to talk

155
00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:07,919
to the FBI and the Virginia State
Police because they need more information about this

156
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:15,000
guy. Yes, absolutely, and
they are better equipped with the tip lines

157
00:13:15,039 --> 00:13:18,519
and everything to handle the kind of
volume that we're getting. I know that

158
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,080
you're rather overwhelmed with it right at
the moment, So we do want to

159
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,320
stress to folks, thank you very
much for reaching out. We really do

160
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,639
appreciate that. As the FBI,
I'm sure would like us to stress we

161
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,840
are not investigators. We are not
equipped to handle the volume of tips that

162
00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:39,519
are coming in. Please, by
all means, make sure that you send

163
00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:46,039
that information to the FBI the Virginia
State Police. We will put links to

164
00:13:46,279 --> 00:13:50,320
everything on our show notes, and
you're welcome to give the information to us

165
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,399
as well, But please do you
send it to the FBI or the VSP

166
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,200
first. They really need that information
and they can do a whole lot more

167
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:03,559
with it than too humble podcasters,
both of whom have day jobs and can't,

168
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,879
unfortunately go out and do the amount
of sleuthing that we would like to

169
00:14:05,919 --> 00:14:13,159
do. The investigators know what they're
looking for. They are definitely looking to

170
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:18,000
fill in some blanks on this man's
life. He died of natural causes at

171
00:14:18,039 --> 00:14:26,360
home in December twenty seventeen. As
a result of his death, his body

172
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:31,320
was not discovered for quite some time, and he'd gone into an advanced state

173
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,320
of decomposition, which is again a
very sad way to die. When somebody

174
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:41,919
dies in a situation like that and
they're in an advanced state of decomposition as

175
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,720
he was, they take a DNA
sample to confirm is this actually the person

176
00:14:46,759 --> 00:14:52,679
we think it should be, and
they were able to confirm his identity.

177
00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:58,919
Later on, when law enforcement was
looking for more information about this potential sub

178
00:15:00,039 --> 00:15:05,879
suspect in the Colonial Parkway murders,
they were able to request and receive a

179
00:15:05,919 --> 00:15:11,159
copy of his DNA report that led
to the discoveries that were announced at the

180
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:16,600
press conference. Yesterday. I know
that I, like everyone else who was

181
00:15:16,679 --> 00:15:22,720
watching, was holding my breath to
see what they were going to say with

182
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:28,559
regard to connections to the other Colonial
Parkway murders cases. I want to quote

183
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:35,200
directly from my transcript of the press
conference here because I think it's very important

184
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,320
that everybody hears the wording used,
and I know not everybody was able to

185
00:15:39,399 --> 00:15:45,600
stream that live on their computer or
their phone. And this is from the

186
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:50,399
joint press conference on January eighth,
and the person speaking was Corinne Geller,

187
00:15:50,559 --> 00:15:56,600
who is the pr person for Virginia
State place. Many in the region will

188
00:15:56,639 --> 00:16:03,039
recognize that the Isle of Wight double
homicide as one that occurred during a series

189
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:08,399
of double homicides collectively known as the
Colonial Parkway murders. Although the similarities in

190
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,960
these double homicides, which spanned a
three year period, cannot be ignored,

191
00:16:14,279 --> 00:16:18,799
at this time, there is no
forensic or physical evidence to link the Isle

192
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:26,440
of White County homicides to those other
double murders. The remaining double homicides,

193
00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:30,000
the two in York County that occurred
on the Colonial Parkway and the one that

194
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:37,000
occurred in New Kent County, are
still active. Investigations and our combined investigative

195
00:16:37,039 --> 00:16:41,919
efforts continue. End quote. Let
me push back a little bit here,

196
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:47,639
go ahead. First of all,
I don't know why the Virginia State Police

197
00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:52,799
and the FBI are suddenly referring to
the murder of Robin Edwards and David Nobling

198
00:16:52,919 --> 00:17:00,679
as the isle of white homicides.
Nobody calls them that. This distancing language,

199
00:17:00,679 --> 00:17:07,519
in my opinion, seems to be
actually separating them from the colonial Parkway

200
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:12,880
murders. Also note the fact that
they use the expression no forensic or physical

201
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:22,880
evidence. If anything, the identification
of this suspect confirms that Robin Edwards and

202
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:30,440
David Knoblings murder is directly related to
the disappearance of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley,

203
00:17:30,759 --> 00:17:40,000
because we know that Allen Wade Wilmer
was a leading suspect in the disappearance

204
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:45,200
of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley.
So I don't understand why the law enforcement

205
00:17:45,279 --> 00:17:48,240
spokespeople, and there were a number
of them, and they did a great

206
00:17:48,319 --> 00:17:53,359
job, but why they're parsing things
in this very odd way. I do

207
00:17:53,559 --> 00:17:57,559
understand, as someone who's been following
this case for thirty seven years, that

208
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:03,319
we currently have no for ransick or
physical evidence that links the four double homicides

209
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,279
in the Colonial Parkway murders together.
In other words, it's all circumstantial.

210
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:15,960
But if anything, this identification of
this suspect confirms that Robin Edwards and David

211
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:21,519
Nobling are part of the Colonial Parkway
murders. And I actually don't appreciate law

212
00:18:21,599 --> 00:18:26,039
enforcement suddenly calling this the isle of
white homicides. They are not the isle

213
00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:30,559
of white homicides. Robin Edwards and
David Nobling were killed in a series of

214
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:36,920
murders that are referred to commonly as
the Colonial Parkway murders, and this announcement

215
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,960
confirms that. So I want to
follow that up by continuing with another statement

216
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:48,039
that they made from Again, this
is Karen Gellar, She stated quote or

217
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,359
we recognize this announcement has been a
long time coming, especially for the families

218
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:57,079
of these victims. What we do
hope is to provide some closure to them,

219
00:18:57,319 --> 00:19:02,960
and we recognize that there are still
other families related to the Colonial Parkway

220
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:07,359
murders double homicide victims who are still
hoping for answers. That is why we

221
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,920
continue to push forward with our investigations. We are not ruling anything out.

222
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:21,079
We are examining other cases and pursuing
new ones. Our agencies are still working

223
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,759
to reconstruct the movements and encounters of
Alan Wilmer Senior, which is why we

224
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:30,880
are asking for the public's help.
Bill. What did you make of We

225
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,480
are not ruling anything out. We
are examining other cases. We are pursuing

226
00:19:34,519 --> 00:19:41,559
new ones. That's three interesting pieces
of assertion right there. I really appreciate

227
00:19:41,839 --> 00:19:45,839
what Kareem Geller and the other spokespeople
are saying. I think this is quite

228
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:51,039
important. First of all, I
am highly confident based on what I know

229
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:56,079
about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. I
think he will be linked to other unsolved

230
00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:03,119
homicides in Virginia. I think he
is participation in at least some of the

231
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:10,119
other Colonial Parkway murders. Should be
confirmed and fairly soon. He was a

232
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,039
suspect in the disappearance of Keith Call
and Cassandra Haley, and that's an unavoidable

233
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:21,839
fact. I know that the media
is starting to cover this idea that it's

234
00:20:22,039 --> 00:20:26,440
very curious that the FBI and the
renew State Police are not highlighting that in

235
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:30,200
their announcement, and I find it
a bit off putting. Yeah, the

236
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,759
way we were talking earlier. I
don't think it's curious. I think that

237
00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:38,880
they're trying to hide the fact that
they screwed up very badly. The information

238
00:20:40,319 --> 00:20:48,680
about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior and his
early involvement as a suspect in the disappearance

239
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,160
of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley comes
from the book of record on this case,

240
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,559
A Special Kind of Evil by our
friend Blame Pardo. We're looking forward

241
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:03,240
to having Blame Pardo on Mind Over
Murder with us in the very near future.

242
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,160
I spoke to Blaine this morning and
he is more than willing to come

243
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:12,559
on and give us more background on
his reporting in A Special Kind of Evil.

244
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:18,200
The Colonial Parkway Serial Killings, the
book that Blaine Pardo wrote with his

245
00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:22,079
daughter Victoria Hester. If you don't
own this book, I urge you to

246
00:21:22,079 --> 00:21:27,519
buy a copy of it. It's
available online in both hard copy and in

247
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:33,119
electronic form ebook as well. We're
going to be asking Blaine to come on

248
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,279
the show and talk to us.
The short version is that he confirms that

249
00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:42,640
this man, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. He doesn't mention him by name at

250
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:49,559
this time, but he mentions the
license plate which he changes slightly because he

251
00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:55,319
didn't want people to be taking it
upon themselves to be looking up this guy's

252
00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,799
license plate information and perhaps harassing an
innocent man. He was a suspect from

253
00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:07,559
the very beginning of the investigation into
the disappearance of Keith Colin Cassandra Haley.

254
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:14,759
Very odd that this was not highlighted
at the press conference. You're listening to

255
00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:18,759
Mind over Murder. We'll be right
back after this word from our sponsors.

256
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:34,359
We're back here at mindover Murder now. When Special Agent in Charge Brian Dugan

257
00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:40,079
of the FBI stood up to speak
at the press conference, he did go

258
00:22:40,319 --> 00:22:47,000
into great detail as to what precisely
he is asking the public to look for

259
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:52,880
when they send in tip information.
I want to quote for a moment here

260
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,720
from sac Dugan on behalf of the
FBI. I want to express my sincere

261
00:22:56,759 --> 00:23:00,960
condolences to the victims' families. That
is why we're asking the public to take

262
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,680
a good look at the suspects photos. If you had any encounters with him

263
00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:10,400
or his vehicle or his watercraft,
hunted with him, farmed oysters or clams

264
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,359
docked next to him, spent time
with him on a personal basis we want

265
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,240
to hear from you. We are
also interested in hearing from the public about

266
00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:22,119
areas where Wilmer was working as a
fisherman and as a tree cutter, locations

267
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,599
where he may have been known to
hunt, or bars, clubs and lounges.

268
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:32,400
He frequented a piece of information,
no matter how small, could be

269
00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:37,400
useful to investigators. He gives all
the information about the tip lines, which

270
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,839
we'll put up on our show notes, and then he had this very interesting

271
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:47,559
thing to say here. We recognize
relationships and loyalties change over time, as

272
00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:52,039
do people and their perspectives. There
are occasions when people who may have had

273
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:57,599
information of a crime do not feel
comfortable coming forward with that information. This

274
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:02,799
may have been due to relationship with
the persons involved, or out of concern

275
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,759
for their own safety, reputation,
or standing amongst friends. Even though mister

276
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:11,960
Wilmer is deceased, we want you
to know it is not too late to

277
00:24:11,079 --> 00:24:18,119
come forward. And again he repeats
the FBI tip information and that FBI tip

278
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:25,920
line is one eight hundred call FBI
or submit a tip online at tips dot

279
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,359
FBI dot gov. You also have
the option, if you choose to want

280
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,480
to somebody from the Virginia State Police. You can email them at Questions at

281
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:41,279
VSP dot Virginia dot gov. And
we really want to encourage people if you

282
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:48,720
know anything about this man. Now
is the time. I thought sac Dugan's

283
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,839
remarks were very well thought out,
and I totally agree with him. We've

284
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,880
heard this in other cases. Over
time, relationships change, People get married,

285
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:02,359
they get divorced, people are born, people die, people get older,

286
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,839
and calm down. I'm still working
on the calming down part. People

287
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:12,160
have said to me even today online
that some of them were reluctant to come

288
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,039
forward, and all I can say
is, look, I get the fact

289
00:25:17,079 --> 00:25:19,680
that this man is never going to
be brought into court. He's never going

290
00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:25,839
to be found guilty, punished,
incarcerated. But there are still people,

291
00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:30,759
my own family included, who are
still waiting for answers. We're thrilled that

292
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:36,799
Robin Edwards, David Nobling, and
Teresa Howell's family have some answers. It's

293
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,279
never going to bring their loved ones
back. The rest of the Colonial Parkway

294
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:47,119
murders families and other families I believe
throughout Virginia are still looking for answers in

295
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,519
their unsolved murders and disappearances, and
I think this man is involved in those

296
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:57,319
cases. There is no question.
At this point he's been confirmed with three

297
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:03,559
kills. We're dealing with a Virginia
based serial killer. Now would be the

298
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,519
time to step forward and say,
yeah, I used to dock my boat

299
00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:11,400
in Gloucester and that guy had this
very distinctive fishing boat, the Denny Wade.

300
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,960
It has very splashy painting on the
side with the names of the two

301
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:19,200
kids, Denny Wade. That would
have been memorable not to mention as we

302
00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:26,400
talked about his trucks, his physical
stature, his look. I think sac

303
00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:32,480
Dugan makes a really good point that
even though he's gone, there can be

304
00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:37,960
so much value created with people coming
forward now and speaking to law enforcement.

305
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:44,720
People can speak to law enforcement without
incriminating themselves. They can say I want

306
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,519
to tell you the story, but
I don't want to be charged for something,

307
00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:52,240
or look the fact that you were
involved in something that might have been

308
00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:56,880
questionable, whether it's underage drinking or
drug use or whatever. Law enforcement is

309
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:03,000
trying to solve these cases. Do
not charge people for ancient offenses that happened

310
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:07,240
decades ago. If you knew this
man back in the nineteen eighties. Now's

311
00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:12,559
the time to step forward exactly.
And sac Jiggan made a good point about

312
00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:18,400
no piece of information being too small. So Okay, maybe you only docked

313
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,319
your boat next to his, maybe
you only ever ran into him when you

314
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,759
were cutting trees after Hurricane Hugo.
That is still information that the FBI needs

315
00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:33,480
to know. You do not have
to have knowledge of Alan Wilmer Senior committing

316
00:27:33,519 --> 00:27:37,119
a crime to call in or write
to the tip line. Right now,

317
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:44,440
they need the best fullest picture possible
of what this guy was doing, where

318
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,440
he was going, who he was
hanging with. As Bill pointed out,

319
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,480
he is a serial killer. The
current definition of a serial killer is two

320
00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:00,400
or more kills. He fits that
criteria. There was a serial killer roaming

321
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,440
this area of Virginia from nineteen eighty
six until the day he died in twenty

322
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:10,000
seventeen. We have to know what
he was doing during that time period.

323
00:28:10,319 --> 00:28:15,160
And the more people that come forward
with information, the better able the Bureau

324
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,960
is going to be to put together
a picture of other potential victims that may

325
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,000
have been impacted by this guy.
And I think you're right, Bill,

326
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,759
I think that there are going to
be other cases in the Colonial Parkway murders

327
00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:30,160
that are ultimately going to be linked
to this guy. And I'm wondering if

328
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,559
the other Parkway adjacent cases that we
have seen in recent years, like Lorien

329
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,599
Powell and Brian Pettinger, I'm wondering
if they aren't going to be linked to

330
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,160
him too in some way, shape
or form. Yeah, it's quite possible.

331
00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:45,880
One of the things that's really important
to emphasize, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior

332
00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:51,920
had no arrest record. He'd never
been convicted of a crime, even though

333
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,960
this guy was involved in multiple murders. And I think there'll be murders outside

334
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,680
the Colonial Parkway murders, as you
said, that can be linked to him.

335
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,039
Something as simple as I remember him
being at my hunt club, or

336
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,039
he came and cut down trees on
my father's property, or whatever it is.

337
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:17,200
Remember, the investigators know what they're
looking for. They're looking to place

338
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,920
him at certain times and locations,
and that may ultimately steer them towards creating

339
00:29:25,079 --> 00:29:30,039
a backstory on where this man was. I recognize that this is incredibly challenging

340
00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:37,039
for the investigators to be trying to
rebuild this history. Thirty seven years later,

341
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:41,640
every single bit of information. If
you know anything about this guy,

342
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:47,359
I've already heard some very interesting stories
which will be urging those people to pass

343
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,279
on to law enforcement. Failing that, I will if I have to just

344
00:29:52,519 --> 00:29:57,599
get the information to law enforcement so
that they have this information. We also

345
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:03,559
want to encourage any one who has
ever reached out to us with a story

346
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,559
about an incident that occurred to you
on the Colonial Parkway. If you have

347
00:30:08,799 --> 00:30:14,480
a feeling that the person that you
saw on the Colonial Parkway, the person

348
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:21,279
who's truck you encountered, was Alan
Wade Wilmer Senior, please reach out to

349
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,480
the investigators and let them know so
that they can place him on the parkway.

350
00:30:26,039 --> 00:30:30,319
It is very important that we determine
whether or not he was out trolling

351
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:34,440
the Colonial Parkway during this time period. If so, that might be an

352
00:30:34,519 --> 00:30:41,759
even better and closer connection to putting
him in the location and vicinity of the

353
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,279
murders on the Parkway, that of
Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski, Keith Call

354
00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:51,519
and Cassandra Haley. So, if
you have given us that information about run

355
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:53,880
ins on the Parkway in years past, we thank you very much for that,

356
00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:57,440
but we encourage you to please take
that information as well and get it

357
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:03,119
to law enforcement in what to reform
you feel comfortable it is vital that they

358
00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:07,039
have this information. We don't mean
to ignore the Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel

359
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:12,799
Lower murder that occurred in August nineteen
eighty nine, resulting in their bodies being

360
00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:18,720
found at the Hunt Club off Interstate
sixty four in New Kent County. This

361
00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:23,720
is something that law enforcement is also
very interested in because obviously he fits the

362
00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:29,599
profile and now we have a confirmed
serial killer in Virginia. I know it's

363
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,920
shocking, and we're still absorbing this
information ourselves. We don't know of any

364
00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:41,119
additional links that he has to my
sister Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski's murder,

365
00:31:41,319 --> 00:31:47,480
or the murder New Kent County rest
stop and Hunt Club, Anna Maria Phelps

366
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,759
and Daniel Lower. There's clearly a
link to the disappearance of Keith coll and

367
00:31:52,759 --> 00:31:56,000
Cassandra Haley, and I know they're
going to be working those angles hard in

368
00:31:56,039 --> 00:32:01,519
the coming weeks and months and will
be definitely reording back on what we're learning,

369
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:07,039
what we're hearing. We're looking forward
to having blamed Pardo on the podcast.

370
00:32:07,079 --> 00:32:10,440
It's long overdue to talk about his
work in the Colonial Parkway murders and

371
00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:15,279
you know, get into some backstory
with him as well. On this new

372
00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:22,519
he's more than a suspect. He
is a confirmed serial killer. Twenty four

373
00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:27,480
hours on. It's been a wild
ride. Again. We want to thank

374
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:31,880
everybody who has reached out, who's
cheered, who's shared all of our updates.

375
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,920
Thank you for your unwavering support.
We are trying very hard to answer

376
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:42,440
questions and comments as they show up
on our various pages. Mind never Murder

377
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,400
and Colonial Parkway murders. It's been
a deluge and it may take us a

378
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:52,000
little bit to get through all of
those comments and questions. Please be patient

379
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:54,839
with us and know that we are
seeing everything. We are trying to respond

380
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,599
to it where possible, but a
little bit. It's like trying to empty

381
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,119
the ocean with a symbol. At
the moment, there's a lot there.

382
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:12,359
Yeah, and I said something to
Kristin yesterday, which is all I can

383
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,240
say regarding the Edwards, Nobbling and
Howell families, is that we're thinking of

384
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:27,119
it. Yeah. I don't think
there's a greeting card available out there that

385
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,559
says congratulations on finding out who killed
your loved one. It's just one of

386
00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:40,640
those situations where you just don't know
what to say. Yeah. The main

387
00:33:42,039 --> 00:33:50,200
picture on the Daily Press this morning
was a picture of Jeanette Edward Santiago,

388
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:57,880
Robin's sister, at the press conference
yesterday, and it broke my heart ye

389
00:33:58,119 --> 00:34:02,160
to see it. I know that
she's thrilled to have this information, and

390
00:34:02,279 --> 00:34:07,719
it's got to be a relief that
it doesn't bring Robin or David or Teresa

391
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:13,960
back, and I know that's got
to be difficult for them. So while

392
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:19,639
we're thrilled on their behalf, we
know that they're probably dealing with a crazy

393
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:23,199
amount of emotion right now. And
their family statement at the press conference did

394
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:28,679
ask for people please to extend them
their privacy, and the same went for

395
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,320
the Howell families, and the same
went for the Wilmer family, who I'm

396
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:37,239
sure is dealing with an absolutely awful
shock of learning who their father actually was.

397
00:34:38,039 --> 00:34:42,119
I think, at the end of
the day, what I'm carrying with

398
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:47,320
me and will continue to carry with
me, is the fact that we have

399
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:53,039
two cases that are solved, they
have answers, and I'm I was a

400
00:34:53,079 --> 00:35:00,559
little afraid I wasn't going to see
the day. Yeah for real. So

401
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:06,519
thank you to everybody who has continued
to hang in there with us, who

402
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,599
is following our Facebook pages and all
of our social media. Please keep it

403
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:16,159
up and please it is so vitally
important share all of the information that we

404
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,960
put up about this suspect. And
if you have information, please do not

405
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:24,440
hesitate to go to any law enforcement
tipline that is available to you. We

406
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:29,679
will put all that information up on
our show notes. We can't thank everybody

407
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,880
enough. It's been a roller coaster, but I like roller coasters, so

408
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,559
hey, I'm willing to go for
the ride on this one. Fair enough.

409
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:45,440
That is going to do it for
this episode of mind Over Murder.

410
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,519
Thank you so much for listening,
and please stay tuned for more updates on

411
00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:52,000
the Colonial Parkway murders and the Parkway
adjacent cases. Thank you so much for

412
00:35:52,039 --> 00:36:06,639
listening. We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of

413
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:13,199
Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions.
Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin

414
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,159
Dilley. Our logo art is by
Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by

415
00:36:17,199 --> 00:36:22,440
Kevin McLoud. Mind Over Murder is
distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media.

416
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,199
You can follow us on Facebook,
Twitter, or Instagram. You can also

417
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,760
follow our page on the Colonial Parkway
murders on Facebook, and finally, you

418
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:37,400
can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at
Bill Thomas. Five six. Thank you

419
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,159
for listening to Mind Over Murder