Good morning, friends and friends, I am Julio Pérez and this is the
train of life, a radio adventure along the routes of the heart. I
want to invite you to travel with me and dream together in a better world,
a different world where men and women of good will can live in peace
and freedom. The train of life is a magaxin of good news and hope.
This is a radio time specially designed for people like you and as so
many seekers of truth, of the only truth that can make us authentic,
the free mind see you. I invite you to travel with us on the
safest train of all, which will definitely take you to safe harbour. This
is the train of life. Or very good morning, Spain, bon day,
friends and friends, impenitent travelers, tireless of the train of life.
Thirty- one year later we continue to travel through the children of the human
soul and the most intimate paths of the heart many times and also the present
day accompanies us. Let' s go there today too. But very good
morning, ladies and gentlemen and ladies and gentlemen, also to all the pilgrims
of the waves. It' s a very affectionate greeting from the one you
' re talking about. Julio Perez, a good friend, a good friend,
I don' t know if to say of the soul. For so
long I don' t think it' s because being a friend of the
soul is being in the good and bad moments of life and it' s
always being very close. No, but here we are. Here, are
we with God' s favor? Never better said, with God' s
favor. We' re with you on this train. This is a living
parable of the things of life the train. The train suggests really impressive route
routes. Sometimes there are trains of these mythical, but also in our geography,
in Spain, the train is an important element. It is associated with
our good way of life. Now at the same time not only has the
Euromet and Albia been left behind and I no longer tell the oldest trains.
But the train is still a suggestive place. Let' s go reading now.
Everybody' s got their tablets, their laptops. There is also WiFi
on trains, because what else we want. If this is Hollywood in the
European version, and there we are. And that' s where we'
re traveling on one ho and the other. And today we will also pick
up good friends from this traveling train We will be in first place, today
we will pick up our friend Gina, Gina Campallance. Gina Campallance. She
was originally an artist, she was a singer there in her years. Well,
it' s not that I' m too old, because she always
jokes about her own person, but it' s not much less. She
is a woman with a lot of nerve, with a lot of determination and,
obviously, she is the president of the association to help mourn those who
are grieving. Saying goodbye already lost a son in the flower of youth,
a boy David, a beautiful boy that I knew very well, the letta
boy that things were going very well and in a way also unexpected, suffered
an ovite in the sea and well, since I, for imagine for a
mother and then, from there, she started, because her process was long
to disconnect from bitterness and I do not know of so many feelings found because
of the loss of a son in the flower of life. And of course
all this to her took her later by a person who always gleaned if a
person very quiet for everything, communicator, worked on zero wave also as an
announcer. She has been a singer, the woman of faith too, but
a very enterprising woman with her husband, Julio architect, a renowned architect there
in the city, on the island of Ibiza, And well, this led
her to think about helping others, the people who suffer this handicap of the
loss of a loved one and organized meetings, conferences, radio programs, she
was for a time, a year, she was in Barcelona for professional reasons
and the truth that she even worked with us here with a weekly program in
wave peace and the program was, say, goodbye and all. And it
' s years and the concern for this and it' s still there and
it' s still there. In fact, they are going to have a
forum, a conference to a workshop shortly that also communicates us of organized by
the Spanish Evangelical Alliance also in this regard and we will be talking with how
to process, how to manage the loss of a loved one and how to
deal with it and until when how to what Well, there are several questions
that we are going to ask you to help us to answer them from your
experience and that of so many others that you have already seen and heard and
have gathered many things. Well, then, this will be the first stop
of the train of life with Gina Campalans and we will arrive at the second,
our friend, Dr Rocca. Again we' re going to take back
the doctor of this traveling train, the train of life with the dotor.
Rocca is everyone' s doctor in this house. But today, about spring,
that blood alters and allergies shoot, the sacks begin to seem devouring,
they begin there to attack all the most hypersensitive places, the allergic vulnerability of
human bodies. And there' s the other rock to go through. How
to try to see those allergies and also what are the most relevant treatments against
allergies. Well, then, we' ll be listening to you here today
on the train of life, to our friend, Dr Roca, talking about
allergy treatment. Let' s see what he tells us and then we'
ll finally get to an interesting station. There we are already going to get
a little more sane and we are going to talk to Don Alfonso Ropero,
Alfonso Ropero for us Alfons Ropero is a walking library and that is eh,
apart from that he is a bibliophile man in the most benign sense of the
word, because he has a huge library in his house in Ciudad Real,
and he has been for many years Clie' s publishing director. Now he
' s retired, but he' s still working on some issues. He
is a national and domestic lecturer. He is a historian and also a writer
of very good works, and we are going to talk to him today about
something he has worked and published in CLI, among other things, and he
is the apostolic fathers. We' re not going to see them. I
' m going to put in perspective. Those who understand more than they are
readers know what I am talking about, but some of us are not so
up- to- date about this is the successors of the apostles, already,
for example, John Policarpo Tertullian, a little later, Ambrose Gregory and
all the fathers of the first century, especially the second century III, especially
those first three centuries, who were the men of faith who led the church
of Jesus Christ in the midst of those avatars until Constantine arrived and somehow made
the Edict of Milan, with the conversion to Christianity of the Roman Empire,
which was beautiful. Also at first it was impressive because it was super positive,
but then everything became institutionalized and lost vigor, lost strength. Christianity with
that, too. But evidently it was also Constantine' s political strategy to
unify the empire of the time in the 4th century And well then there were
already characters like St Augustine of Hippo in the 4th century and a little later,
and the truth that they were insignious characters and others and so many others
and what they told us. These men also had to fight heresies, some
very important against the Christian faith. But well, Augustine Dipona was an enlightened,
he was a teacher of philosophical rhetoric who experienced a dramatic conversion to Christ
to Christianity. His mother Monica stole God for her life, because it was
once he lived a very dissolute and such life, but very interesting. But
then he became a man, a champion of the faith, and he contributed
much to Christianity and so many others, and it is interesting to see and
all these men have created historical sequences and have led the Church by the best
possible ways in the midst of many historical avatars, incidences of kingdoms, attacks
and counterattacks, persecutions, martyrs, favors and misfortunes. Well of all good,
then we' ll talk to Don Alfonso wardrobe about this issue here,
on the train this morning don' t miss it. Today here and on
the train we will travel together. Here we go. You can send your
message through our Facebook, through our Facebook entering between its double- point see
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They remember that this way you collaborate with us. Tell us your impressions,
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meet you. Enter our website three month double points the train of life,
dot is and follow us through Facebook, through fok even if the sun stops
shining and the moons will turn out the night, even if they are denied
coma and once as I go through if in fine I will not meet,
I will rejoice and in front of the war I will smile, although the
bird of which they sing to me and a dense fogmerde even though the fire
no longer hot the same already it costs me breath, I will not give
up, I will not give up, I will rejoice who amate you already
will smile, I will not give up, I will resist and in the
midst of the test I will overcome, I will not laugh, I will
resist. We will cross the valleys and the great finite cities, plains,
endless mountains, low that not of stars, come out soldiers of flame,
we will open the way to where we are sold, We are pilgrims,
see these stations the arrows, my bimsic words, Masto does not rekindle me,
I rejoice and before the war or will not surrender me? Georsstigan and,
in the middle of the test for your safety, wear the belt.
We' ve replaced this announcement of nine hundred and seventy- three because not
putting on the seatbelt looks like things from the pin. Let' s look
at the effect of a collision at fifty kilometers per hour lin pin tulo,
but it isn' t and one in four road deaths wasn' t wearing
a seat belt. Put on a belt Directorate General of Traffic, Ministry of
the Interior, Government of Spain. I want next to me to control everything
you do, you see and you feel. If there' s everything you
get, I want fat time. Abuse doesn' t come suddenly. Ministerio
de Sanidad, de Servicios Sociales a egalidad Gobierno de España. My project,
that my grandson, my man, is super- grandmother, is a pillar
and shell and one of them has depression, but their dreams, like any
other, have no limits. Let' s not put them on us.
Integration is always the best response for the social inclusion of people with mental health
problems, Ministry of Health, social services and equality Government of Spain. If
you want to visit our website, the wwwww. Point the train of life,
the train of life or better, ladies and gentlemen, we already have
our friend China Campallance in the bud, talking to us today about keys,
because we need some keys to overcome the mourning for the loss of a loved
one. The death of a loved one without a doubt is a traumatic episode
for those who live it, for those who go through that experience, it
is as if a piece of the world had been completely broken, like a
part of the map that had disappeared. For us he has or has to
suffer it, he has to learn to live a life in which that loved
person will no longer be and it is not easy. It must be through
grief and with an emotional response to loss, which is long and the answer
is sometimes ambiguous. Not many mixed and painful feelings, but it is necessary
to regain stability again. And let' s talk to someone who is precisely
president of the mourning aid association, like Gina Camparals, say goodbye also as
he told them in his own experience has lived and he has lived with many
others who he has accompanied during their lifetime. And there we have it.
Gina Campalance, good morning, Gina good morning, July, long time no
see. There yes, yes, live and live, virtually wanting to see
you and see you, our dear friend Julio, my compadre hears talking about
the subject, the theme of mourning is a thing that is always good since
you lived the dramatic experience of losing a child. Right, that' s
where it all starts. Not sure. Evidently, I never thought it would
be for this that I would dedicate myself habitually and professionally. I don'
t know what to call ministerial. Or, well, what I spend more
time apart from my family, is really this. But, as you have
made clear, twenty years ago, our eldest son, we had six children
and on September 12 of the year two thousand three, David, who was
our eldest son, died of a scuba accident. Then, evidently, our
life was paralyzed, so to speak, our happy world up of the great
family, for of course, there is a before and there is a after,
because you can' t expect anything like that to happen in your life
and for any family that suffers a loss of a child, for it is
a tsunami, yes, and but thank God, it had to be enough
years for me, to put it this way, to go through it in
a healthy way. I mean, I' m not traumatized. Our family
' s fine. We can talk about David normally without everyone crying. But
obviously David' s gone. Then we have had to relearn to live without
him, to cling to other hopes, I as a believer to the confidence
that one day I will see him again. But you have to relearn to
live without the presence of absence, that is, with the absence of the
presence of your loved one is not an easy way. As you said,
there are no magic formulas, but it is true that there is an ingredient
that is what makes the difference and is the attitude. I always say we
' ve had hundreds of people we' ve been with all these years and
right away, not right away, but soon you realize the person you want,
you want to get back on your feet and the one you don'
t. Then there are two groups of people. There are people who fall
into the poor victimism of me because it has happened to me, because if
I am a good one, if I did things. Well, there are
people who just don' t understand why it happened to them and then get
stuck in this question. And then there are people, because it costs them,
but they accept it and then they try to reconnect to life clear tools
that they have around them and with what they have, of course, because
that' s what we have to learn how we can help ourselves. But
someone has, someone has. It is good that someone is next to these
people who live in the loss of a loved one, of course. Obviously,
recovery will be better if there is a good family support, of friends,
of grief support groups, although it is also important to highlight Julio that
not all people, i e, need external help. That is to say,
I believe that within the human being there are capacities to survive the most
tragic events that may occur to us. But, obviously, to have a
support around and people who know how to understand that they can listen to you
in a quiet, active way, without giving you advice, without making the
famous phrases made. It has been God' s will or you will have
another son or lived the time. In short, there are phrases that would
be better not to pronounce them. But of course it' s good to
be with you in this process. What happens many times July is that this
is a very long process and most people, both friends and people in your
community, of faith or family, are there for a while, but then
they get tired, among other things because they don' t know what to
do or what to say. Then the person is left alone with it,
feeling the same intensity of pain, and it is usually when they ask help
groups where they see that already in their environment they do not even dare to
verbalize their pain, to express it with weeping, because they think that they
are tiring those around them and then they seek a space in which they can
be understood, where the common language of all people who meet is grief.
It is the language of mourning, of course, because there are the stages
of mourning. The confusion, the anger, the anger, the pain,
the guilt, the sadness, finally, the affectation and the restoration. These
are the seven stages identified. As you identify them like that, I kind
of do. In fact, what happens is that many times these stages can
be overcome. I mean, I always say and besides, I just lived
it a short time ago because the mother of a friend of mine died,
the husband of a friend of mine died. So I' d say the
first part is like the show, I mean, the person doesn' t
just believe that this is happening, even when it' s funny Julio,
even when we could say that there was an announced death, not because of
a cancer disease, a long illness, like the person should be preparing for
the end. And yet, my surprise is that, well, it'
s no longer a surprise, but I was shocked, but I keep seeing
that people don' t think this is going to happen they always think that
there will be a pill or something, a new medication, and that will
make the person finally not die. But, as I was saying in that
first stage of the shok, the person does not assimilate it. But it
has some advantages. This first stage is that it allows you to do all
those things that need to be done when a loved one dies, I call
you I know how to get in touch with the funeral pomps, do the
funeral, the preparations that I tell you. In these days I have been
remembering how it may be that Julio and I, after David died, the
next day, could be talking to a gentleman quietly, quietly in quotation marks,
the coffin you are looking for, the people you are calling the newspaper
' s announcement the flowers. But this is because emotions have not yet blossomed,
that is, they have not exploded. You' re still in a
bubble where you just didn' t believe this. Then, as you well
say, there is a whole process at this stage in which it already begins
to emerge, since all the anger, sadness, misunderstanding, non- stalgia,
well, a whole series of emotions. Then, little by little,
one comes to what is called acceptance. And in this process it is when
we can begin to elaborate, healthily, because the process of mourning. And,
lastly, it would not be emotionally relocating the deceased and continuing to live,
that is, adapting yourself to the fact that he is not present.
But you' re integrating all those memories that you have with that person and,
of course, it' s not about you forgetting it and going through
it, but you learn to live without that person, because you should learn.
Not everyone gets it, of course. But there' s another one
among that you' re mentioned, which is very interesting. There is a
danger and it is not to process the duel well, that is, to
make a shortcut, a momentary run forward. But if there is not a
well- run process, this can turn out to be a boomerang that can
turn you back and give you a very strong one in your life. You
can' t come down. We are clear, obviously, as I have
always said. I mean, grief is not a disease, it' s
a natural process, absolutely natural, as it is a reaction, as if
you drop boiling oil on it, because you have some burns, then you
have to pass some balms, you have to make some cures sooner or later.
This is gonna be all right. If you obviously don' t put
on the right ointment or don' t put on, don' t do
it, this can infect you then with grief at the emotional, psychic and
spiritual levels is exactly the same. I mean, mourning isn' t a
disease, but if you don' t perform those tasks we call what we
should do during mourning, mourning can be conquered. It can become a pathological
flight. We can get to have what a deep depression. And that'
s when you really need psychological, psychiatric help and there are people who have
a hard time getting out because look. I' d like to read you
what you' re looking at. This is the brochure that we have from
our association can not see no. Yeah. Everybody does, yeah. Look
I' d like to just read this to you which is very important,
because I think it' s what helps people. It says the benefits of
attending groups, of helping grief or not, but what it says is the
fact that putting words to pain helps a lot to start healing it. We
know that the only way to heal grief is through it and the best way
to do so is to experience and express the emerging feelings. The pain,
the sadness, the going to, the guilt, the shame, the longing,
the disbelief, that is, the tasks of mourning partly have to do
with that verbalization that express how I feel. So, in groups, what
we do is we actively hold and listen to these people who need to repeat
over and over again, because I was at home and the phone rang and
they told me that my son had had an accident and we had to go
there. Then you' re putting order in the middle of the confusion and
you' re slowly assimilated. This is real. Then go expressing how I
feel. I feel like that day you might have been mad at your son,
at your husband, and a few hours later they tell you he'
s dead. Then it' s there. Often the feeling of guilt is
left in many of the following. That too, the feeling is curious,
but it is very true. Hey people who have got something left behind with
that, but or something that hasn' t done well and they think they
' re part of the problem causing death and everything, and this is very
fustigating. Not sure, that' s very fustigating and then it' s
one of the things to try to help the person first forgive himself in case
he might have some guilt. That is to say, imagine some parents that
it is the birthday of their son, who turns eighteen, buy him a
motorcycle, The boy goes out with the bike and has an accident and dies,
that, of course, that is left to that family. If we
hadn' t bought him the bike, then well, we have to work
hard to free people from what good we' re going to see was an
accident. Another brother had a motorcycle and it didn' t happen to him.
Then it also depends on how the child drove, not that of skipping
a traffic signal or running too much or simply that it was an accident.
I mean, getting people out of guilt isn' t an easy task,
but we' re trying to work a lot on this. No, yeah,
yeah, yeah, well, sure, it' s very important.
It is very important, after that what remains is also I think that during
the meeting groups, where it is verbalized. That is very important, because
when people sometimes talk on a recurring basis, they also free themselves from these
things. And it is that a group therapy that you also perform, in
the groups that you good organize to see. It' s funny, because
we say that a meeting group is not a self- help group or a
therapy group. A meeting group is a group from which experiences are shared and
experience is not considered therapy, but development, that is, groups are not
necessarily therapeutic. That' s what I' m talking about. Yeah,
sure,' cause there' s that feedback. I tell you, I
tell you how I am, what happened to me, and there' s
another person who' s listening and maybe he' s at another point and
listening to the other person as the tools he' s used to go through,
through, help, so there' s a therapy generated among people who
are through using the same situation. Yeah, at that level, at that
level I understand therapeutic. Yes, but it is true that, as you
say, and then there is a question throughout that process longer or more not
so long for some and longer for others so many and some lake to others
pathological, because never get rid of him that mother or father that carries in
the soul this and there is no way. The tragedy that happened with your
son or wife or husband is always present. But good memories also when processing
those groups, it' s important. Either in family or between husbands,
the good memories of the person who is already deceased, disappeared are very important,
right. I think so, because they are fundamental, because when a
family member is missing, what can' t is not going to disappear from
the map of that family. So, for example, since David died,
from the zero minute since the first year, we commemorate that day, then
we remember David with pictures, with videos, we remember anecdotes, so what
we do is that what we should do is not take that member out of
the family as if it had never existed. This happens on many occasions.
I mean, it' s such a taboo that there' s around the
person who' s passed away, that you don' t talk about it
anymore. It doesn' t matter, it takes out all the things that
were there from that person and because it hurts them, because it' s
very painful. At first, I realize that the encounters we have now,
after twenty years, or even those we had ten years or fifteen years ago,
are not the same as those we had at the beginning. In my
case, I used to take a little pulse from the family. How were
the rest of the family, because this is very important. Julio. Many
times when a mother loses a child she forgets that her other children have lost
her brother, that the father has lost his son, that is, I
have lost my son, that I carried him in my bowels, but my
husband was her fishing companion. They had their brothers. He was a very
important figure to them, their older brother, that is, the whole family
hurts. Then you have to work with the whole family to help get through
it in a healthy way. And it' s true, as you said
there are many women who, and above all I wouldn' t say that
it doesn' t happen now, but everyone, everyone is. We have
in mind the image of these women dressed in black in time in villages or
in many places where as a child had died when, therefore, they have
stayed there not and is the victim of the family and the family cannot evolve
because there is a member is always suffering. Not how interesting the whole subject,
talking about how to overcome through grief, a process of mourning, the
loss of a loved one. Hey I give a little strike to the interview
with one thing that was going through my mind at first and it' s
a little bit may seem a little strange, but not to me, it
' s not and I would like you to do a reflection on this.
I was thinking about the war in Ukraine, the loss of so many children
who lose good. Here we have several orphanages, even in Spain, in
various places of Ukrainian children, in Europe many and then the women who have
lost their husbands countless of them and well, and entire families who have also
died from the bombings of this sinister character who indiscriminately attacks Ukraine to invade it.
But beyond political issues, that is, the loss of a country like
this, the trauma has to be enormous. Huge, right, it'
s a country in mourning. It' s a country in mourning and it
' s obviously going to leave some impressive sequels. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
we don' t know how long it' s gonna last, but
of course, as you say, separate families first. We' ve usually
seen most women, grandmothers, mothers with children, fathers stay in front of
us on buses. That separation already leads to trauma in families. Then,
then, if they find out that the father has passed away, for imagine,
this will require many years of help. Let us trust that there are
organizations that put in place psychological aid plans, because it is a traumatized country.
Yeah, and I' m gonna tell you an example that has nothing
to do with it, but just so you see it' s like the
tip of the Iceberg last year, not the other one. He died in
Ibiza in a French boy from French school. He died tragically, very young,
at the age of twelve, making Snorkell also died gado. As David
I had an only child and I was called from French school. I was
called by the director of the French school to see how we could make an
intervention in crisis because the whole school was in mourning. The parents were in
mourning, I was in the teachers, the parents of the children going to
class with their children were in pain, with this child and all these children
who had lost their classmate were in mourning. So, imagine, this child
dies because a week before the start of French school, which you already know
begins French school usually starts a week before national schools. Then I remember,
because having to give talks and help the whole collective. It was a collective
duel and I did see the most that impressed me clearly. The parents did
not know if they still had to see the parents of this child who had
died. The children did not know how to manage the loss of their classmate
they had been with since they were five or four years old. No,
then we use it. I went with a partner, with a girl from
my team who has also written several books about the help of the grief that
is called" Thanks life for how to teach children" And then what we
did was in class. We took off all the tables and we all sat
on the floor, we all sat in a circle and then with a cushion
we were passing this cushion as a child. Every time a child had the
cushion in his arms, that is, he had it, he had to
comment on how clear he felt. The children began to verbalize for the first
time what had meant to them the death of nells of this child and then,
well, it was tremendous July, when one began to cry and the
other began to express that he dreamed of him and the other that he would
not see him again and that where he was was tremendous, that is,
it was therapeutic and helped them to a barbarity. So I think all these
people, especially these kids that you were asking me, what they' re
going to need is to verbalize how they feel, that is if they leave
it inside. These children may end up very traumatized, but they find a
channel through institutions, groups that worry about helping them express themselves. I assure
you, they can be fine. You do not understand why they are clear,
because in addition to the horror of war, besides the loss, which
is the worst of everything and the disappearance of families and sometimes entire cities,
the horror of everything, of the noise, of the noise of war,
of the situation of chaos. And that must also be borne in mind that
I have spoken to many of the Ukrainians, of those who have arrived and
of those who have already been here, and the Ukrainian people are a strong
people, they are a brave, wary people, it is probably in Europe
of those who are most eh and that is good. But yet it is
insufficient, because the tragedy is there. But, well, anyway, we
do good in help, but good was a note or it' s not
okay. I believe that specifically yes. Yes, I do not know whether
Ukraine has already entered the European Union, or is about to, not yet,
but it is, it will, it will, despite the whole of
it. I believe that this would be an outstanding subject for the countries that
are neighbouring and that we have not gone through that war to take over.
I want to say if, thank God, this war is over and they
are starting to return all to their countries and all first of all the state
in which they are going to find their homes, their country, their city,
that is, this is a collective drama, but I believe that one
of the tasks that the rest of the countries have will be to help,
to send psychological help, that is, to help alleviate all this situation that
all these families have left. No doubt. Surely that is certainly envisaged in
the reconstruction of Ukraine. When the war ends one way or another, it
will have to end because and then the reconstruction will most require a very,
very large, very massive psychological attention. Yes, it' s true,
and as far as this aspect is concerned, we were talking about therapies,
accompanying water therapists. In fact, you do that, you do it so
much with so much affection and with that burden that came up in your heart
to help people in this emotional crisis situation. But also, in addition to
all the tools that are the most interesting for the day to day, there
is also faith and spirituality, truth, also that is an important ingredient many
times in this whole process of pain, truth, well, many times I
think it is fundamental, because, obviously, I always say that faith makes
a big difference. Having faith in God. Having faith in God in the
midst of a tragedy like this for me marks two great differences. First,
we believe that God is good, this is not a punishment, that there
is a purpose behind what may have happened and then we hope that we will
meet our loved ones again. So I' ve seen for all these years,
as you know, our groups are neither evangelical nor anything, i e,
they' re grief aid groups where people come with faith, without agnostic
faith. I' ve had even a Muslim woman, we' ve had
people with all the philosophies in place, and then it' s clear that
lack of faith makes such a thing meaningless. I' ve also seen,
unfortunately, Julio. But it is also part of the process of people who
have staggered in their faith because it has been raised, as I told you
at the beginning, because God has been able to do something to me,
as if it were a thing that God, a direct intervention of God to
harm you. Then I have seen believing people that their ugly staggered in the
midst of this, and yet I have seen other people, for they have
grasped more, whether or not they believed. Now we have the case of
a man who was not a believer and yet his wife has recently died.
On Christmas Eve, his wife dies, on Christmas Day, his mother dies.
A few days later he dies of his brother. Then a man truly
troubled, a name which he has found in the priest, in the priest
who is in the people, for a balm of peace. That' s
good, I' m amazed. I' m looking forward to meeting this
priest. I' m going to go see him one day because I realize
that the person who came in this man, who came in at first a
few months ago, who was very angry at everything and I see how he
' s calming down. Then he tells us in the groups that I have
spoken to this priest and that this priest has given him a series of advices
of words that relieve his soul. Then this man is clinging to the faith
he did not have before the death of his wife, mother and brother.
However, I have other people who were very believers who participated and I am
referring to a general Christian belief. Most who connect are Catholic people, because
they had their own fellowship that they went to their Masses and stopped going and
attending because they were angry with God. Not then, well, what I
do in these groups is talk to them about what helped me and I grabbed
God like an anchor. You understand I said this. If I' m
not holding onto him, I don' t know how I' m gonna
get through this. But I can also tell you July that faith does not
free us from suffering. Of course not. That is, there are some
words of Jesus that say in the world you will have affliction, but trust
I have overcome the world. Then I interpret this as suffering. No one
' s going to take it from me, that is, I didn'
t suffer less because I was a believer. Come on. I spent a
long time, but a long time it was a pain in my chest.
I remember it was like a daily moaning. Sir, please help me because
I can' t stand this pain. What is true is that I never
fell into despair. I never let myself be dragged away by the pain,
I mean, I didn' t let the pain take over. I was
aware that it was a stretch of storm in my life, that I had
to pass it. I didn' t know why or why, but it
had to be passed. And that' s what I did then. Me.
For me faith is my anchor, my anchor, my support, which
has allowed me to get here and over the years discover that who could help
other people who were going through the mourning, but someone who has gone through
it, who is fine, who has regained hope, who has projects that
I am happy with. I mean, I' ve forgotten David. David
is never the engine of this, for I would not have created this if
David had not died. But I' m fine, but I have illusions
and I' m able to have a good time and enjoy life. And
this I admit breaks the taboo or the idea that it circulates around that if
a mother has lost a child, she can never be happy again, because
I do not agree. I' m happy. I feel full, I
' m excited about a lot of things. I' m still excited about
a lot of things in life. I think there are still many adventures to
live, but I have had to relearn to live without David, whom one
day I will see again hear how beautiful all these reflections, besides this testimonial
experience and what we have spoken is magnificent. I think it is doing a
lot of good to many people who have lived it, who are living it
or who have friends or family in the area of influence. And this is
balsamic. And it also guides and helps. And for that very reason the
Evangelical Alliance has organized a workshop on Saturday, April 29, which can be
by zoo, not for the people who want to follow it. How to
create a grieving aid group, right, tell us a little bit. This
yes, well, for a while now, well, I don' t
know if our listeners know him, but you do, Marcos Zapata, who
is the president of the Evangelical Alliance, proposed to me the idea of creating
groups to prevent suicide and accompany and help the mourning? Why with the idea
of forming, informing, teaching, bringing light to the churches, Spanish speaking
with the aim of forming, because there is a lot of ignorance right within
the churches in relation to mourning, in relation to suicide. Many leaders may
not know how to deal with all these things. So, well, we
have created this group in which they are part of different people, among them,
so, to see that I' m going to tie up here,
is Charo López Pareja, who is a cop, a police girl, and
who also created the association Vence that is an association for prevention and help victims,
relatives, victims of which have died by suicide. Then there is Hans
claus Ewen, who is a German shepherd, as he says a German shepherd
who does not bite. In addition, he has written several books about grief,
Yes, very good. And then there' s conchi González, who
' s in Galicia and she' s a psychologist, she' s frames
and there' s me. So, what we' re doing periodically every
good x months. We meet regularly every month. And the idea is to
teach, teach, teach about different things. We did some workshops recently on
the accompaniment in the mourning and charo God on the prevention of suicide. And
now this is what he' s trying to teach. The aim is to
teach people to create mourning support groups within churches, who may be trained to
do so. So, we' re going to teach you how to create
a grief aid group, which is a grief help group? How should it
work, how should it work or how should it work? Give some brushstrokes
so that they begin to see people, specialized groups within churches that can be
dedicated, I do not tell you in exclusivity, but that it is another
tool for ecclesiastical or ecclesiastical within churches. So, April 29th, as you
well said at 5: 00 p m through a link that I guess you
' ll spend later. No yes, yes, I' m already climbing
it to the wall, to the walls of Facebook and Instagram, to both,
then nothing. People just have to sign up. It' s not
free, because Marcos has come to the conclusion that free things a lot of
people sign up and then they don' t go. No. So you
already know that creating these events is not the same platform for a hundred as
for five hundred, as for a thousand people. Then it is put as
a donation five euros for the person who pays it, because it says hears,
because this interests me. I want to do it. Then the organizer,
Carlos Fumero, already knows. Well, we' re going to create
a platform, they' ve signed up, they' ve written a hundred
or two hundred, so let' s see how we do it. Not
magnificent, magnificent, done, this is priceless. I' d tell you
yes, that' s right here. I think it' s interesting to
keep on training and learning and being in order or knowing what' s happening
in the world and that we' re people who have some training for different
things. I think it' s important that there are people within the churches
who specialize in something. I always say ah forgive, no, no,
no, go ahead, I believe you I always say that when a person
I have a vision of the Church as a hospital, as a place where
people arrive with a series of ailments apart from their desire to follow Jesus.
But we all come with backpacks. So, if you notice, I don
' t know if you' ve had to go to the E R,
I hope not, but I, with six children, imagine the times I
' ve gone to the E R. So we all know that when we
get to the E R, the first thing they do is a triage.
No, then, first they take you to a little room where there'
s a nurse, where she asks you a series of things and finds out
what your discomfort is, what your pain is, and then they already refer
you to a heart specialist or a trauma, everything or whatever, not then
I think that in the churches it would be good if there was something like
a kind of triage. When a newly converted person arrives, let' s
see what backpack this person brings, where it comes from, because if not,
if you notice, I know we' re drifting, but there are
people who have been in the Church for years and years and carry the same
backpack. Yes, ma' am, because maybe it hasn' t been
figured out, not what it is you' re carrying. And I'
m telling you this because I have psychologist friends who have told me that many
times it comes to someone with a series of problems and they start throwing and
it' s a poorly crafted duel. When they were little, Grandma died,
they pulled her out of the way. She never saw Granny again,
no one said anything to her, she took away in silence and was traumatized.
Or what used to be said was that the children were not taken to
the cemetery or taken away because the children had to be taken out. In
the midst of all this, I believe that children have to live naturally.
What' s happening. Death is part of life and as soon as you
see it more naturally, you will be able to live it. And tomorrow,
if you have to go through a duel, you' ll be more
prepared. No doubt. It' s certainly not very interesting what you'
re saying. It' s true that you don' t. And the
workshop comes to the hair for it' s a formidable tool. We are
seeing, for example, suicide assistance also to accompany this is another chapter we
want to help people. We' ve got it in our DNA. It
is our vocation to accompany people in their pain and to know how to give
them some tools or answers in addition to the intelligent company. I said no
and I was thinking. Finally, already on the subject of everything we'
ve talked about during the pandemic, people who couldn' t process the mourning
because they lost their loved ones and couldn' t even see them. But
a lot, there were hundreds and thousands of people who could not say goodbye
to their spouse, their son, their grandfather, their mother, their father.
Well, a tragedy that was a national tragedy, really, totally.
In fact, I don' t know if you know Julio that I believe
in grief relief groups. I until then my grief relief groups were face-
to- face. In my ibiza a beautiful living room with my candles aromatized
that if the music is in the soft. That is, because it was
very important to me, because I continue to give it to the embrace of
the Presence. But all of a sudden, this is over. Then we
had to look for an alternative and I began to receive requests for help to
the duel from places that you can least imagine, from the Argentine pampa,
from Bolivia, from Lima, from different places in the world. People were
asking me, but you guys have groups online and I said no. I
' d say no. Me. I don' t know how it'
s done until I learned when I started seeing so much demand. And that
' s what I found. A lot of people who maybe, because they
haven' t seen the family in months. Suddenly they tell him the father,
they take him to the hospital, they die in the hospital. They
don' t even know if the boxes that gave them mortuary were their relative
inside or the covid thing It was terrible, terrible, terrible, because,
as you well said, performing the grieving tasks is fundamental and one of them
is the ceremonies. The ceremonies help to put a point and end, the
encounter with relatives, with friends, to bury the person who has died,
to fire them to receive the hugs of one and the other. Sure,
when does this go away? When this disappears, of course people stay?
It was very painful. But then they started creating groups. He came out
of the tzoom so people could see each other, even if it was through
the screen, they could create some sort of farewell ceremony. But, thank
God, that' s already happened. But we keep the zum that'
s wonderful. Yes, yes, yes and good And by the way,
on the 29th of April we go in addition to our listeners, on the
page of the Evangelical Alliance entered the ueblant and there are all the details.
Also, on my radio wave page, on the page of the Spanish Evangelical
Alliance, you see all the details of the day. That how to access
and everything accurate and understand is very simple. You' ll have to fill
out a form and it' s already there. Then on the 29th,
which is a Saturday, we will connect at five o' clock in the
afternoon and then we will tell a little bit how to create this group.
Then there will be a round table. It' s very interesting. The
truth is that the other one we did the previous one had a lot,
very good acceptance. There were a lot of people connected. And good for
what they tell us, because then they hang in the Evangelical Alliance, they
hang articles. And I think it' s a way, like you said,
of learning about the things we' re needing. Not without a doubt.
No doubt listen, Gina, it' s been a great pleasure to
be with you again. I also remember being good at many experiences we have
experienced. Radio you are a radio woman of the medium too, but the
year that you were in Barcelona, already with the program and well, with
two programs also very singular, very relaxed. Uh, yeah, I missed
you so much when you left that well, I had a good time.
Thanks for giving me this window, this opportunity, because I had a great
time. You remember what Julio was called. Yeah, well, one is
saying goodbye and the other is good. The show you were doing was this
one I can' t believe. I can' t believe it. That
' s true, but besides, it was very original things that were being
dealt with. It was the idea, not to rescue things that happen in
the world you say. I can' t believe people put their faith maybe
in bottles of bottled water that I know is going to do, I don
' t remember anymore, but the truth is I had a good time,
all right, all right. You have an extraordinary station and there we go
well, as I send you a very affectionate hug and a greeting towards July
and at any moment we can see ourselves until soon gins, but until soon
chao chao. Thank God, I can, too. The greatest pain occurs
when the most we want the pain or the greatest comes to us as a
blow to the heart without warning today that we are no longer there, today
that I have this pain and feel a great void and I can not fill
today that is no longer this only remains in the moments that gives the lived
to travel. He never dies when he leaves, he just dies You just
want to forget. Now you' re everywhere you' re part of my
life. From where you are and to heal my wounds, never die who
goes only die you want to forget? Today I feel you everywhere, in
a gasta, in a burning flame you are my angel you wink at me.
Never dies who leaves love never ends. Grievous pain can sustain us and
you are not reminding anyone of the greatest pain. Only time takes it away,
although a moment today that is no longer having this pain and being great
emptiness, I cannot fill today that it is no longer only left in the
moments that give the lived rough age. Who ever dies, who just dies,
who forgets? Now you are everywhere pathetic beings of my life, from
where you are dry, my wounds, never dies, that you leave only
dies what you forget today saying everywhere in a mestá in a burning flame you
are my angel you guide me. Never die who goes love, never,
nothing, Never finish my project study in the United States and teach them how
to play football They are really Emilio and Raúl and one of them has schizophrenia,
but their dreams, like those of anyone else, have no limits.
Let' s not put them on us. Integration is always the best response
for the social inclusion of people with mental health problems, Ministry of Health,
Social Services of Equality, Government of Spain. I' m up to it.
I' ve got two sorroco left They won' t sneeze at the
bartender I don' t panic between the containers. We can have a new
life or the cereal house you' re right. We can be useful and
do not recycle with forty plastic bottles. If you make a lining for the
or libri say yes and this stem we will do. What a quaqui bike
and give a new life to the containers. Put them in their container and
take care of the environment. How much to give a new life packaging recycles
San Marcos and COHENMBS communities. Never leave me alone in the bathtub or places
with water. Don' t let them emit luis fingers on a plug.
Don' t leave me at the age of an open window. I told
to my tosic substances, to micamientos, you already let me swallow the small
pieces of toys. If you neglect your eyes, you can be dangerous to
your children. Don' t neglect to avoid accidents. For what you want
most Ministry of Health and I consume a government of Spain or you travel on
the train of life and we have arrived as well as the one that does
intentionally want the thing to Dr Rock' s medical consultation. There are the
different allergies and their possible treatments for them. The other rock is going to
help us a little bit figure out the primary reasons for allergies. Come on,
Dr Rocca, you wanted a friend Hi, Julio. Allergies are expected.
There is a certain expectation that they may be somewhat of a source of
anger. Right. The truth is, we' re already seeing and treating
patients. They are consulted for this reason, because, for example, an
allergy to our listeners is a reaction of our immune system. Those who suffer
from it toward something that does not bother most other people, but those who
have allergies are often sensitive to more than one thing. For example, the
substances that usually cause reactions are pollen, dust removals, mold spores, animal
dandruff, certain foods, insect bites, medicines that can also cause serious allergies.
The truth is our immune system, of course this cannot be predicted to
have a true allergy at any time. The truth is that it is not
a question that, as doctors ask ourselves very often, it is not why
in recent decades we have seen so dramatically increase the number of allergic to see
shame, there always were, but not in the volume in which we have
been living and searched and searched and there are some answers. We know that,
apart from the existence of all these allergens, dandruff, animals, mites
that are in our rooms, our beds, our sofas, in addition to
the pollens, there must be something else that is the real cause for some
people to develop an energy that others do not develop. And some answers have
been shown. One of them is that it seems that there are molecules in
the air in suspension coming from the combustion of the engines tene and those substances,
because they are going to terarmamunitarian, in such a way that we have
greater ease to develop an allergy, a legia always has to be there a
protein, a protein that is strange in our organism. And when I come
into contact with this protein, then there' s a reaction. But it
is not a moderate reaction, but a tremendously exaggerated relationship. It can even
become dependent on intensity. It can be such. In fact, unfortunately,
I do not know if you will remember from a few years ago here in
the Port of Barcelona, that a ship loaded with soy arrived. Yes,
and it did not happen was tremendous, because there was, indeed, a
tremendous problem the leaves, not of the elements also frequent. As for his
polvito, it is that looses that it can cause, because great poems of
allergy. But here, let' s say, in our area, in
our territory, we have two large groups that is that of the sacks and
that is not springtime, it is not related to seasonality, but we are
seeing all year round and that of the pollens, which is so, it
is seasonal and that is now at its peak and surely we have it for
a long time or just, so you used to comment on the great amount
of rain and also the tons and tons that are in suspension of pollens in
the atmosphere. For example, what you have said about diesel bro uncle for
engines ten is already being warned and, in fact, there are already big
brands, not only that they are decreasing, but that they are stopping making
engines ten l That is, it is expected that in order to remember which
year no longer exists, tenel cars are no longer manufactured, everything is gasoline,
pure. It' s not like we' re turning our planet into
some kind of latrine. The polluted seas. Plastics are everywhere, even in
the pantas of marines, in the atmosphere molecules, well, some are natural
and have to be there because it is their place, and there is a
purpose. We are the pollens, but then the men add there a lofadal
of strange molecules because of fossil fuels and other substances. Some of them are
perhaps less concentrated and, therefore, perhaps less motivated, but others are not,
and one of them sees the products that eliminate the combustion of gazo engines.
S So, this is no longer a problem that is known now.
We have been in the past for years, and we know whether to get
into chemistry, the chemical route, because to say that this is a problem
that has been known for years and that we had to give a solution and
finally goodbye. Thank you, because it seems that the top ten, ten
have their days numbered and that this we suppose could improve. It should also
improve the volume of allergic people and other respiratory problems that we find all year
round, because not only will combustion generate a harmful contamination that will cause gers,
but it will generate a contamination that will cause multitude and multitude of respiratory
pathologies. Because of this contamination, respiratory allergies hope, especially allergies that have
to do with asthma. This is delicate, because there are cases that can
become highly sensitive and seriously endanger people' s health. With the asthma issue.
There are people who suffer to a superlative degree. Yes, and also
that is to say that there are cases in which they are more serious,
because there are people who good at coming into contact with an allergen, will
segregate greater volume of mucus, block, there will be basis of sneezing respiratory
ditty. But there' s a kind of percentage of patients that are for
me, the believers and the most at risk. But what they do is
a bronchial spasm, the bronque, when it comes into contact with the geno,
contracts that part of hypertrophy muscles contract preventing the passage of air and clear
that of tremendous consequences. Well, even as you said quite rightly they can
carry and, by deracially we' ve lived it. They can lead the
patient to death in case the doctor is not there at that time, it
takes time to consult, sometimes the family' s little success has to be
moved. How to react, especially if it occurs in rural areas now early
in the morning, that is, complications. There' s no emergency service
24 hours, there' s no hospital nearby. Well, unfortunately we have
experienced this situation and the patient has become critical. Or it' s for
terminal. It' s very serious. Very serious. Sure, sure,
sure, treatments and therapies. In addition to nasal sprays, antistamines and anti
- allergic injections, there is also the issue of vaccines to assess the possibilities
of detecting the causative agent. Not true. The issue of vaccines. The
vaccine you already know that means that the treatment is punctured, an intermuscular sucultary
whatever, but punctured and this can sometimes reinforce new problems. You have to
be very careful. Some of us prefer, I unquestionably prefer oral v has
the great advantage that the organism will take what it needs and what the latrine
will not discard and we will have far fewer problems, much less complications.
These laboratories care about and make study, research and market vaccines. And this
kind of pathway we call vaccines, we call it isotherapy. It would be
the same thing that causes the disease. We use it as a medicine,
because there are very prestigious laboratories and that their products really work wonderfully well.
Even some very frequent allergies already have classified small bottles, type vejiguita of plastic,
because, with the monodoses of this vaccine from sotherapy to decensitize the patient.
The problem we also live in is that, as we are immersed in
this valley of pollution, because sometimes the patient heals an allergy and develops a
new one. This I can see with relative frequency. When a patient has
given in a treatment, it has been positive, beneficial, the patient has
improved dramatically, it has even healed and after x years it reappears with alertness,
because already one suspects and many times when we repeat the tests of allergy,
we discover, therefore, a new cause. And the truth is that
this is quite, quite common with pollens, with food, it' s
quite complex. It' s a very exciting subject, but it' s
quite complex. Yes, it has a very particular complexity. The other rock
before we say goodbye. There' s an allergy. There' s an
allergy, an answer to this big question. There' s an allergy.
In recent times, it wasn' t that much. I' m saying
not to remember them in the past either. In the past there were things,
for that is good, that we have improved a lot and that are
and better that they have disappeared. But there are other things that weren'
t and there was something in the environment in the past. I' m
not talking about repression of religion, which there was also a lot of it,
but there was a sense of respect. Let us call the figure of
that God who somehow did not know where he was at all right, but
who had created us. We' ve become allergic. Our society has become
allergic, authentically allergic, to contact with God, to the search for that
God that we so much need truth, the truth that you are bringing all
reason to chastity, to which society has a good part. He seems to
have an alert. One of them is the word God. Another allergy is
the word Church, to which one speaks of Church, God, Gospel,
Evangelical, Christianity, etcetera. Well, we see that there is in some
of our neighbors, in the people with whom we relate some kind of tartullidos.
There is an allergy red because, well, what happens is that when
we analyze and when we speak in depth and there are people who are very
that, not and good, because they have an attitude to life, to
the universe. On the other hand, you have others that not others,
because you will really reason some of them because being at an intermediate point diagnosticism
of difficulty in accepting, but there are some that do. So, when
we go to the cause, no, I' ve wondered good, why.
Why people, traditionally human beings. Since prehistory we know that the human
being has sought God through religion. Religion, for it has that purpose.
So when the human being has sought God, especially in Christialism, we know
that God comes to pass, but in all cultures, all over the world,
from history, we see that there is this search for the spiritual and
suddenly it is like that, because you general said it very acesarously, a
kind of allergy And of course, then one has to realize the ones of
the one who lives. The sequence is the one we live with. It
is a society that has in Jewish Christian principles, especially Christians. Now the
Jewish, it' s there at the root, but we don' t
see it so much anymore, we don' t perceive it so much anymore,
but the Christian. And then people often have no problems with God,
but with Christians. There' s one that brings her in, and there
' s the secret. Then I always tell people we share. The faith
is that the Christian must live, live in the city, he must try
to be of an extraordinarily formal conduct, because that pleases God and, besides
that, it is light to the world. Look at yesterday, at the
Bible study, at the Church, with the brothers of Martorel we were commenting
on the well- known texts of you are the salt of the world.
And the Lord Jesus does not say you have the salt of the world,
but you are. And then he says he also speaks of the light and
also says that he is the light of the world and that we are the
light of the world. There is there a reflection of its holiness and its
characteristics. But sometimes we' ve wanted Jew we do it so poorly?
We do it so poorly that then people do not see in many Christians or
in many pseudo- Christians what they should see. Then we blame God for
everything. God is like this since Adam and Eve sinned. You know,
Adam blamed the woman, the woman of the foot, and the serpent had
to shut up. He was guilty, but the jeds were guilty. And
that' s where we all go. Many times we blame God for our
misfortunes, for our insanity, for the misfortunes for which we are responsible and
mothered the name of God. People curse God' s name when it goes
wrong, but they don' t remember God when it' s right.
It' s a society full of contractions, so I think we can heal
from that ally. Goodbye is the allergy to Christianity and it is knowing him
personally. God can be known personally. Moreover, although he is the highest
character in history, neither kings nor anyone is taller than God, but God
is in the position of humility, in the stubbornness of Christ and is ready
to receive us all right now, each of us, and he has the
answer. He is the answer, because small saves of the equation of this
world to the person of Christ, the one who remains nothing. This is
devastation, moral devastation, devastation in every way. And well, he is
the Creator God, he knows our nature and he has so much compassion for
us that we still often feel his caress, in the midst of our ignorance,
in the midst of our evil to do, in the midst of our
failures, that we all dare already myself, but he and, being there
to leave like the eternal rock of the centuries that we can trust, because
he has overcome, we will overcome so it is, dear friend, I
believe it is a masterful conclusion to take into account that counterpoint of something that
seems also vital to the health of the soul and to the destiny of the
human being here and now, because purgatory does not exist. This, yes,
which is a true invention, is an invention of the Middle Ages,
nonexistent in the Bible. Don' t say hello to that or out of
amazement. Well Dr Roca, dear friend, we are satisfied with what you
have told us to take into account some things yes and, above all to
go to consult if necessary, welcome. Thank you well, thank you,
a hug that gramidista so goodbye the train of life you when you find the
meshes with his sword for you borders, you contiguously beat flagbantar to tusca,
you conduct faint with his spread for your grari france psychotista you will conquer flag
bantara. Not without pain, no cattle. Everything costs a value for which
you have to fight, even though you stumble that it would matter to win,
if it was so easy, to fight the goal and at the end
that you will know more if I don' t know, sometimes you have
to be bumping in order to be able. Thank you and reach a little
maturity, because there would be no way to know how to twirl what will
come. The pain in your times can be so cruel but God won'
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through difficulty, but sometimes it boils to awaken the gift inside it goes and
get out of the comfort that you will read the place and to the goal
confirm it to advance. If you are Sometimes you have to be shaken up
to move, grow and reach a little more fearlessness, because glory would be
a way to handle what will happen The pain can be so hard and so
cruel, but God won' t let us stay there any longer in power
that we can bear. If you can create, anything is possible. If
you can create, confess that it is, even if you can' t
see. If you can believe, no matter what miracle it is it has
to do according to its will it is to make clear victory, not fear.
If you can believe this is what Luis, Juanjo' s friend,
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Well, ladies and gentlemen, now, in a few moments we are
already in zoom communication, but also audio for all our listeners of the modulated
frequency in the different Spanish cities. Think that every week more than a hundred
major cities in Spain tune in to the train of life. Then I am
sometimes in a city when I go from here, I imitate it since Thursdays
leaves our hangar the train of life in march and on Friday Saturday I sometimes
travel to different Spanish cities and go around, I go with some friend or
some pastor who is taking me here and listen to the program. I tell
you well, I' m glad that you can hear it and I hope
that the interviews are helpful and that they help, that they are. The
purpose is for them to be a social help service as well as the one
we have talked about. Well then, ladies and gentlemen, we already have
our friend Alfonso closet there that we are going to go in with him to
talk about the topic of the apostolic fathers, the first leaders of the church
beyond the apostles who died. The last living apostle was John, who died
about ninety- eight, apparently for dating. He died in Ephesus after having
also had a captivity on the island of Patmos. And, well, there
are more things that are very interesting. We' re going to make some
breaks because, obviously, the subject is immense and I' m going to
welcome my good friend, the doctor, also historian and writer, Alfonso Ropero
good morning, Alfonso Hello, Good morning, Well, Alfonso. We could
talk about a thousand themes, but the theme of parental patristics, what is
patristic from the most popular point of view to situate our listeners a little bit?
What is the patristic one that has to do with the origins? After
the years of Jesus and the apostles in the world, when they all disappear,
they are the ones who continue the work, the Christian work and how
this would be defined. Yes, patristic is a name given to an academic
discipline that has at last the study of the more of the Church. Istristics
within certain seminaries, for it studies or if it was important, the study
of the church, understanding as the Father of the Church, the successors of
the apostles. Once they are dead, the cane, the so- called
new testament, closes. But Christianity continued. After the new will. Works
continued to be written, including some very famous ones that almost entered the canon,
such as the Letters of Clement Romano or the Shepherd of Hermas. That
' s already part of that part or falls into the category of patristics.
That and then were the names as well known as Jerome Agustín Gpona, for
that is the subject given in certain academies at that period, to the study
not only of the life of his men, but of his works. Yes,
because of course the ge was, for example, one of the writings,
Pastor Armas, one of the most popular of the first after the apostolic
era. True, exactly if it was the immediate writings. Let us say
that patristics introduces us to what happened in the church after the death of the
apostles. He certainly didn' t disappear. The church has already been on
earth for two thousand years and, moreover, interesting I know that in the
evangelical world, although a fact that is true, the reform was the first
that already in the sixteenth century, they put patristics as a subject in their
studies, because sometimes it is thought that patristics is also spoken of as patrology.
It belongs to a rightful defect which he believes is in the proper right
of the Catholic Church. But it' s not like that. Protestants,
Luther as well as Calvin and other authors, including the Spanish evangelicals, such
as Salamuel Villa, in their books, as well as returning to the sources,
sought the Bible on the one hand, but also wanted this biblical teaching
to be confirmed by the ancient authors, the so- called Fathers of the
Church. So, the Protestants of the sixteenth century, in order to say
give a certain character of seriousness to what they bring of continuity of rupture.
They have They were the first to create the professorship of patrology, that is,
of study of the parents to show that they were rebels who were breaking
the Church. They simply continued what they believed to be the best of the
Church in the Bible and in the parents, the parents of the churches.
The characteristics, as you are saying, of the patristics of the initial Fathers
of the post- Apostolic Church who pre- empt and defend Christian beliefs before
the pagan dogs of the time, regard the faith as the only truth and
knowledge, above all other knowledge and many more things that also have to do
with the philosophy of the time. True, yes, it has to do
with philosophy and a fact for us to understand about the Christian faith. We
have been Christians for many years and we have a great legacy of a great
heritage. But there is a curious fact that can guide us, and that
is that the Christian faith began as a translation movement that I mean by this
and to the same, Lord Jesus Christ, does not follow the Old Testament
to the letter. He clearly tells the men and women of his day and,
above all, the doctors and the scribes and the Pharisees. Have you
heard that it was told to our fathers or elders, but I tell you
then he says have you heard of the eye for an eye, tooth for
a tooth? I say amaze the enemy who has your cheek to right and
puts you on the left or the other way around. Then a rereading is
done. He after rhinestones the Old Testament in the light of what he considers
to be the essence of God, who is God love, since they had
derived that newer doctrine in Jesus Christ, God is love from the beginning.
But the Pharisees had concentrated on the legislator God and had made a sort of
system of laws. I think there' s one. They codified six hundred,
and I do not know how many laws they needed to be fulfilled to
please God and Jesus Christ, for he understands that this is not the basis
of the law, and that is why the law is summed up in only
two laws. In six hundred and sixty- six thousand we go and say
that we love God and love the next for him. Then to the translation
that he does And the Church will do the same when he reads the Old
Testament and St Paul himself already begins with that spiritual way of understanding it.
Sarah, Abraham' s wife, is the symbol of the free Church and
to give that she was the slave concubine. It was, for those who
live under the law mean that they make a spiritual translation of the Old Testament.
They don' t take it to the letter. They take it in
the light of the spirit of that letter, in the light of Jesus'
teaching. And that' s why the apostles. This translation is produced and
the parents of the church continue the same translation. In fact, we'
re always translating. We say, we read the Bible and the Bible says
well, the Bible says according to our preconceptions. We' re always doing
a translation job. When we read an ancient and modern text, then the
Father of the Church what they do is complement or complete that process. And
they make comments to the Old Testament, such as that stila still make Bible
comments and apply those principles to the Old Testament. Christo told them that Moseser
bears witness to me and that all scripture is a witness to Christ. Then
they read the entire Old Testament in the light of Christ. Do not read
it in the light of the law, do not read it in the light
of Israel, do not read it in the light of the kingdom, but
of the kingdom which is manifested in the person of Christ. And they do
the same with philosophy, as we have commented because George, certainly, the
Church begins very soon in the Gentile or pagan world, because first, because
the Jews persecute the early Christians, like all to that fact of the apostles
were dispersed. Stephen goes to Samaria and becomes Simon the Wizard, then to
the Antioch and St Paul makes trips all over the world carrying the Gospel.
But it also happens historically geographically, that the Jews rebel against Rome in the
sixties and are totally destroyed by General Titus the Roman. And then they reveal
themselves again in the year one hundred and thirty, and then, already when
the Jewish state is totally destroyed and the Roman state even forbids the stay of
the Jews physically in Israel. And it means that the Jewish world was no
longer the one who questioned the missionaries. Now it' s the pagan world
they' re missioning to. But of course, the pagan world was followed
by another book, Not followed by the Old Testament. They were followed by
their philosophers, by their myth, by their gods. Then they also make
a translation of that philosophy and speak of the ci just as Paul says that
the Jew is made to the Jew and Greek to the Greek the parents of
the church, that period in which Christianity becomes Greek to the Greek and shows
that true philosophy, which at that time, philosophy was the way of life
that we still use today in colloquial language. We do not understand philosophy as
an academic discipline. I have these my philosophies directly my way of being,
this is my way of life. This was how philosophy was understood in ancient
times and why the philosophy of the Christian era was the most important and had
the most to do with the Spanish. Seneca, who was Spanish Cordobés,
was stoic philosophy, which was a way to behave in life, in the
face of happiness, but also in the face of misfortune. The death of
a loved one a return from destiny that leads to ruin. How to deal
with those situations that can destroy a person psychologically and physically That was called the
end, I said tor and today we still say this we have to take
it with philosophies, take it patiently, see it prologue against. So Christianity
says this is Christianity, because Christianity, in this we all agree. It
is neither a religion nor a philosophy. It' s a way to be
a way, it' s a way to follow, as he says Jesucrista
seizes from me. We are simply apprentices of Jesus Christ in his way of
life. He didn' t even bring theology. That we have done afterwards
and is correct, but good is what Saint John showed us above all fourteen
six. I am the way, the truth and the life. Then Christianity
translates these simple concepts of Jesus Christ, because he spoke with clarity for even
the uneducated child, because they translate it into philosophical language and speak of our
philosophy, because of course this anibujo has a philosophy of trust, that of
hope, that of faith, that of love, charity, and mutual help,
for all that I develop. That' s the patristic period that comes
to our day. Of course, when you talk about a kind of allergy
to philosophy, which is also not good grecolatine or to which the mixture of
those terms is pure ignorance. People, perhaps the one who reads and the
day is there, know what they are talking about and those who do not
hear it, because they misunderstand it. No. But, well, that
note is very important, very timely. One of the first parents or followers.
Polycarp of Smyrna, according to the historical records of Irenaeus and Tertullian,
Polycarp of Smyrna, was apparently one of the disciples of John the Apostle.
And, well, there is also mercifully previously Irenaeus of León, Gregory of
Nisa, John Chrysostom and Well, those are the first, basically between the
first century I II. Fundamentally we move on to the 3rd century And it
is still clear here, we already enter into other Eusebius of Caesaria, Tertullian,
Well, already the Great Augustine of Hippo, who is a man who
marked school frame too and the conversion of many of these men we know is
also very dramatic and very much like St Augustine' s call but as holy
as you and as I, no more and no less. But the truth
is interesting because these men who exercised a social influence from the Christianization of the
Empire, an imposing social influence, true, yes, yes, that aside,
because yes, Augustine is already the one who really good of Augustine is
born already in a period where the Church is legally recognized. Before St Augustine,
the Church was considered an illegal religion because it did not worship the Emperor,
it did not burn incense in honour of Rome. They believed that if
one lacked respect to the Emperor, he also annoyed the gods and could come.
The misfortune, which more than one of the most influential was Origen who
even the mother of one of the emperors at the time that the Church was
persecuted, sought counsel from him, sought the teaching. Origins, lived in
Alexandria, which was like the Athens of the time that was in Egypt and
was there there there were a large number of Christians and also Jews, that
there is there born the so- called sectoakhinta, the Greek version of the
old Testament made by Jews, and that the Church then used Christianity precisely because
of its way of being and living. He was very attracted to the attention
of the pagans, although they also despised him, because he was a thriving
movement that grew, aroused envy and suspicion, especially when someone wanted to speak
ill of someone, because they did not know to investigate reality. And there
was talk that Christians participated in the Holy Supper by eating the body of Christ
and drinking its blood and literally taking it and saying that Christians were anthropophages,
that is, cannibals almost and that a series of stories and legends were created
and that the clear people despised Christians, except when the people saw if these
people helped us, because in the church they not only testified. It is
known that the Church of Rome, where Paul was also the apostle Peter and
so many great Christians, she alone kept three thousand poor of the city than
in which no one took care. The Church of Rome. It is known
that there was a square of the foundlings, that is, the unwanted children,
the way they had, apart from abortion, the unwanted ones, were
taken from Java in that square. There was like a kind of tumulus,
a high place and then the one who wanted to go for those children either
adopted them or employed them as slaves when they grew up or as gladiators Christians,
knowing the sad fate of those children exposed there to what might happen to
them. They were picked up to treat them as what they were or what
they had to be worthy people, slaves or wrestlers in the circus. All
that. People saw it as humanity, but it cost time for all time.
But they had that certain prestige of men who loved the world, but
at the same time believed it to have been doctrine. It was dangerous and
tertullian that you mentioned that he is the first Latin theologian, he created what
Hispanic. He was from North Africa, he was and they spoke Latin as
being the language from which Spanish comes, Spanish. Then he was a great
defender of the Christian faith in front of the judges, saying to value things
as they were and disassemble slanders. Bullies didn' t pay much attention to
him, though he didn' t die a martyr. He tried, but
he didn' t. He was a lawyer, but he defended the faith.
That is why it is a book of apologetics or apology quicir defense,
defense Christianity. Yes, it was interesting all that Christian struggle to gain a
worthy place. The one he deserved was not a privilege, just as other
religions were tolerated. They were to be tolerated and left at once the bull
that they were cannibals or that they were going against the State, because it
was believed that, since they did not burn incense in the altars, they
went against the State and I specifically said tertullian. We prayed for the Emperor,
our best way of showing the fidelity of emperors we pray to God for
the good of empire, we pray to God for the peace of the Empire,
and that hurt them that they were unjustly criticized, because Christianity always St
Paul says so in the Letter of the Romans, that we honor the authorities
and those bi- Christianism has always done so. And that' s what
' s beautiful about this period, the period of the church fathers. It
is how they try to manifest Christianity, which is peace and love in a
hostile society. It took time, but they got it. It is also
interesting to observe and because some magnify ignorance as if this were the vow of
necessary humility, and it is with Tertullian eusebius of Caesarean section of his ecclesiastical
history. Well, there' s such an agustín of origin. Well,
and there the list that adds up and continues even among them there are others
that are authentic apologists intellectuals, but with a colossal intellectual formation. True,
they are. In one of the earliest Christian intellectuals, it is Justino,
Justino, Justino Martís. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, he
was a man who had been moving in the philosophical schools of the time,
the stoic, the ticury and they all read and knew well the aristotelian platoon.
But he came into contact with an old man, a Christian elder,
and did not know at that time that he was a Christian. But they
speak of the soul, they speak of destiny in the afterlife, and what
that man said to him he saw. He agreed that he became interested in
the faith, became a Christian, and not only became a Christian, but
paid with his ruin for his life. From there I could find a way
to save myself and give orchards to sufer by saying no, but I believe,
but to that of respect I could have looked for the tricks to save
the peronol life when they told him to deny the Christian name, which was
the way the judges had to prove that they were Christians, because a true
Christian did not deny his lord went to the Church, but they were not
Christians, because they refused because they were going to attend or because they received
help. The true Christian when faced with that option of release, deaths for
they said if the renegade freedom of my Christ prefers death. And that'
s what Justino did, and then right away he saw a pantheon that in
the faraway would be the tainting of the holster stain, because Justino had already
done it. In Rome he founded a school of philosophy, but Christian philosophy,
what he said before and that at that time philosophy and theology were almost
united, because it had to do with life, the way of life.
Well, I' ll pantenum and then it comes in graciously and then seeing
origins. They were three scholars and at the same time attracted many people who
in the anguish of the world and who did not see an answer in pagan
gods, in polytheism, in those gods that sometimes he who has seen in
that it is seen in film odyssey, for gods who are jealous commit adultery
among themselves, because the truth was that they were not exemplary. And the
Christian god, of course, had nothing to do with it and they were
amazed by that Christian God that they preached but at the same time it is
known that the same gracious one that still persists his very thick books had a
tremendous culture of philosophy, of Aristotle' s platoon. Now, why Christians
in the evangelical world have suspicions or sometimes feel a sort of repulsion or rejection
of philosophy. Because, of course, as in politics there are good politicians,
bad politicians and in theology there are fabulous c and there are other Christians
who are not ashamed to call themselves Christian philosophy. There was what Paul calls
false lanosis philosophy. Paul calls it falsenoses, and Paul says it was these
people, the Greeks themselves criticized them. They were people who made philosophies to
make money, which was to win lawsuits were because philosophy was linked to oratory
and in trials, because the one who had the best oratory at the best
gold peak could win or lose the case of his client. And there were
many philosophers who lived not looking for the truth, but the way to make
the black or white, said to use words or language to transmute or transform
the sense of things. And that' s what Christian critiques and it'
s called philosophy or whatever it is. But the Bible does not condemn true
philosophy, but that false philosophy that they were traveling people who, let us
say, lived selling their knowledge, but the true philosopher did not go around
selling his knowledge. To disguise the lie. They had their schools and people
chose them because they saw in them serious, honest, responsible people. And
so Christians also opened schools and received many students because they saw in them that
seriousness and honesty that Paul says. We can do nothing against the truth,
but with the truth. The Christian has always gone with the truth of the
part and philosophy in his popular senses, love of truth, love of wisdom.
The opposite. That' s right, either I cheat or whatever we
call it, it' s interesting, it' s really recommendable. That
is why you have collegiate and directed a series of patristics in clie and you
have also written some of those works to us. Well, we wanted to
initiate the evangelical reader in this inheritance, because it is an inheritance the books
of the church fathers, and we started with the first ones, who are
called apostolic fathers. The Apostolic Fathers described them this way because they had known
some apostle, for example, you mentioned him to Polycarp, they had known
John. Then they belong to the Apostolic, Apostolic, Apostolic period. Friday
after they are already disciples of these apostles, like this Tullian and as it
is the Itineus himself, he did not know the apostles. Then we have
published to the Apostolic Fathers in a volume also the works of mentioned Irenaeus,
Clement, Alexandria, Origen, Augustine, Tertullian, not all the complete works
are we could draw out hundred and so many volumes. We got what we
first called him the best thing we' ve put in because it' s
the second edition. Thank God it was exhausted, that is, it had
a good reception and we call essential writings. Their essential writings are many more.
It doesn' t mean they' re the best. They are the
most basic or what best introduces us into your thinking. And, well,
I think there is a species today that observes an interest in knowing these men,
because of course it is that if not the Church is seen in a
problem. It seems that the Church begins with us from which, from the
New Testament to the present Church, there has been a vacuum. And that
is not possible, of course, because Jesus Christ, in his resurrection said
I am with you every day until the end of the world and every day
is century II. And so and so, when he says that the Church
is founded on the rock, which is Christ, which is to them the
rock of salvation, says the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
If we think, as there are many evangelicals who believe, that after the
death of the last of the apostles, the Church gave as a sort of
decay and apostasy, then Jesus Christ fails his word. If we believe that
there has been an apostasy until Luther' s time or even us those thousand
years, Christ was not present or was where he was, where is his
word that the gates of hell would not prevail against the rock, for he
was there in that, he was in Clemente, he was in origin,
he was in Tertullian and so many foot believers have written nothing, but they
did something very beautiful. When Rome falls, that is, when the Church
is already affected by the empire, we have all heard of the barbarians of
cara, of the Huns, of the eggs, of the same ones in
Spain that came the Visigoth odolus. Then those people were people used to fighting
and their ideal was the combat and Christianity that made against them for Christianity amazingly
domestic. Yes, great lords, they came the first thing they were to
steal in the churches, because there is the chalice that was used to take
it, the wine of representing the blood of Christ was usually of clear gold
that we were valuable and they killed or plundered. And yet, those men
or women who no longer remember his name, who also died at the hands
of the invasions in the long run conquered that empire and one of the most
violent peoples that Europe suffered were the Vikings or what were called the men of
the North, who were razing came to Spain, well, they arrived to
Seville, when the Guadalquivir Guadalquivir is navigable and in small boat and there was
the Church managed to convert these men, whose gods of Odin, the tor
that make films of this today the round with his hammer that kills a thousand
characters of a blow the Church or those people of that time. I'
m talking about the year eight hundred nine hundred managed to tame these peoples,
which was not easy to us in the twentieth century And until we leave our
habits, even if we become Christians, we still maintain that St Paul calls
the old man, for they fought a very strong old man, because he
was a very accustomed man to war. And Christianity is peace. Christianity is
concord, because all this was achieved by the Church. Not we have been
getting him churches century after century. I have said those examples, which are
the most dramatic, but it happened throughout history. The human being has always
been violent to the idea is today we have a war here on our pigs
and threaten us even with atomic bombs. At that time they were also always
warring and zero before reminds us of the books of cavalry. The cavalry books
were novels, but they were Christian novels. Sometimes we didn' t think
of that, because it was dealing with those soldiers who did what we saw
on television there in Ukraine and other countries, looting, torturing and raping.
And the ideal knight for Don Quixote, that the defense of women, the
defense of the Maiden and the keeping of her word, the not stealing the
contentment of his good deeds, was a way of civilizing those who lived as
mercenaries. And that was also a church product. Then, it is very
nice to think if we follow the word of God we are Christian, but
we have a past and a few brothers, as the Letter to the Hebrews
says, for a cloud of witnesses we can feel very proud of, because
they performed great miracles throughout history, a miracle of conversions. Yes, magnificent
explanation Alfonso to put us in perspective, because I remember, perhaps in a
personal anecdote, when I became, I could read bad at little, because
it was very sick and I went very little to school from eight to twelve
years old, and I began to read the new will and I remember them
and read it, I slowly read it the back had black. And then
I loved myself already when I joined the military at the age of sixteen,
at the age of twenty. I wanted to join the culture late. Okay.
I made a whole process possible until I was twenty- five years old
at the University, which was already a sprint. But I began to read
from everything I read, everything to the Ley, Mars, Lenina, Trowskia,
mause Toon, the authors, Saltrea, all those of the time Kamus,
all of Kiski, obviously, Nix, etcetera, etcetera. But I
began to read the history of Christianity and my faith strengthened the first history of
Christianity. Then I read others. When I read that, I was already
a fervent believer. I thank God, but I was greatly strengthened by knowing
the history of Christianity. He reaffirmed to me to see continuity, as you
have said, from the first century, second, third, fourth, until
the first millennium, then until the Protestant reformation and everything and to see the
variables that have existed in history. I was strengthened and reaffirmed and I said
this church the gates of hell have not prevailed against the church in 2,
000 years. And then you have to know how to interpret the story.
So it' s true. I highly recommend reading to the church parents.
Plus a lot of your thinking. It illustrates us, enriches us time practices
that are some were of faith principles so primary, but so genuine that you
say. Sometimes it is necessary to return some of these things to be more
genuine, more direct, not mediated by so many liturgies and that we Protestants
have also acquired them. Anyway, but the truth is, it' s
very interesting. That' s why the reference to Clie' s books is
very interesting. And we come to the subject of heresies. Well, from
scripturalism, docentism, agnosticism, Montanism and both adoptionism and archaeism. Well,
there are all Nicolaism, Martianism, Modalism, Manichaeism or Donatism, etcetera.
Arianism, especially Arianism, very interesting, because Spain was arian for a time
with the Visigoths in power, who succumbed to Christian culture, because they became.
That' s what you were saying, apolinarism, nestorianism, pelagianism,
the subject that is also very interesting in monophysicism, etcetera, monothelism, etcetera,
etcetera. So there is to give and give, but above all arianism.
Yes, that was a controversy that was very much in battle for a
long time. True, it was a hard battle in many years, because
Christianity proclaims itself as a monotheistic faith, a single God, but at the
same time that this God is a father, a son and a holy spirit,
how that is clarified. The Arians denied the trinity, the Orthodox for
calling it that or the great Church. Most believed without knowing is the explanation
that there is only one God who is the father, but that Jesus Christ
was not only a superior man chosen by the Father, distinguished with a second
God. He was God himself and then the Holy Spirit also admitted. They
recognized him as a personality. It was not an influence, it was a
living being that made the Church gain strength, etcetera. And in those years
that they lacked terminology to get to explain in a way, let' s
say logically the possibility of there being a god and at the same time three
people and not for that being a tritheism three gods that still continues to to
tory. Even in the evangelical world there are churches called Jesus alone, that
is, they do not believe that in the Trinity or sects such as Jehovah
’ s Witnesses or other groups that deny trinity because they do not fit in
their heads. Well, the Church had to deal with these heresies, not
only the Rianas, but many similar ones, because the subject was difficult and
coming to a description I think simple, but very beautiful, and but they
had to resort to a language that does not appear clear in the Bible.
The Bible mentions the father, son, and holy spirit, but without giving
it terms, Christianity had to resort to Greek terms as substance, essence,
hypostasis, and a person who is one God, but three different persons.
Substance or hypostasis is the same in all three, but there is a distinction,
what is called a dynamic monotheism, that God is communion relations, the
father in general, son, from eternity beginning the son to be has always
been the son and the holy spirit is also sent by both. Then you
have to develop these ideas of hypostasis, of what you call the same essence
homosis. And it wasn' t easy. It wasn' t easy.
Many councils were needed. Today we assume trinity almost by faith rarely a foot
believer in our church. Even pastors can give very correct definitions, because it
is complicated, as I did not study it myself in my pastor, in
whom I was baptized precisely at the age that you became equal to seventeen,
I became converted and at eighteen I was baptized because I had doubts whether to
be baptized into an adult or not. But whatever it was, that man
explained to me. Today I understand it in its trinity ways in a heretical
way, they were as in what is called fashionism. God, father.
It is the God who creates the world, but the God who goes well
to redeem us then becomes a son, becomes flesh and redeems us, that
is, takes the form of the son And as the now risen son lives
within us, the same God lives as a spirit in three ways, in
three ways. That' s wrong. For him he convinced him because he
could not otherwise understand how to respect the oneness of one God. But that
' s not the real way. We' re not going to clear it
up today. But the idea is this so basic essence, one God in
three different people and that people are not manifestations, they are ways of being,
that shows us in front of that Judaism in an isolated God it costs
us that it does not show that God is community, that that involvement is
very important for human life, that we are God relationship. It is also
a relationship or in front of the Muslim, where it is also what is
called a strict monotheism, Christianity is a dynamic monotheism. Strict monotheism is one
that knows only one will and there is no dynamism in it. In the
Christian case, we believe that our God is a god where there is inner
communion, and that makes many things clear to us. God did not need
man to know what love is, because he loved one another in that personal
variety, which is in him that are mysteries that do not surpass his way
of understanding. This God creates us by pure grace, because he wants to
love us, because he wants to love him, not because he needs our
love, not because he needs our praise, because he, like Jesus on
earth, says he is pleased with the father and in the glory of the
father he always had. God has always lived in a glory, communion,
communication, eternal love among himself. It is the way that theology has to
explain that Christian God, which has nothing to do with these extreme or strict
monotheisms, Judaism or Islamism. Although Judaism was already opening up and speaking in
the book of proverbs of Wisdom, through which God created the world. And
so the Gospel of John says that Christ is wisdom, that is, the
wolf, is the verb by which everything has been created. He was with
God and he was God. In other words, there has been a process
of Christian doctrine. It did not fall from heaven, it was a reflection
or, as I mentioned earlier, it is a process of translation of the
experience of Christ. They experienced Christ not only with a healer, not just
as a messiah. He was the one who did it. Prophecies, not
just as a kind of privileged. God experienced it as something that exceeded them.
And so they gave him the title of the lord, the title given
to Jave in the LORD, in the old Testament, because they believed that
he was in Christ, as he will then say in the Pauline letters and
in him dwells the fullness of deity. They couldn' t explain it any
other way. He wasn' t a man, he was God himself.
And that, of course. It must be translated into a language that sheds
light on the apparent contradictions in which language can resort to explain, to explain
the mystery of God. What an interesting explanation, ladies and gentlemen, and
in such a didactic way for all our listeners in the voice of Alfonso Ropero
and I tell you, obviously, look at the Bible. The new testament
implicitly manifests the deity of Christ and also explicitly, but very implicitly, conclusively,
as John' s theological preamble in his first verses. In the beginning
it was the verb he was and he was condid. The verb was God.
And then also, as Jo' s witnesses have sometimes said, it
was a God no, because the indeterminate article does not exist, that is,
it was a forgery of but many more interesting things. And then he,
that fashionism, has also wanted to fight the otri the ternity and so
many others. But it is true, and there I do see a point,
it is God' s revelation to the believer the believer and we dare
to say it is an authentic revelation, to understand the incomprehensible by the grace
of God, that God is community, father, son and espe three distinct
persons and one true God, as he says, the apostolic creed is a
definition more or less, as approximate as possible. Right. That' s
right and here we have and I want to recommend you look at this and
I have here before me all the books that Alfonso wardrobe has collegiate are published
in clie and directly his own hand, the whole collection of apostolic fathers,
which is sensational. I recommend it entirely from both Justin Martyr and so many
others who appear and the general the first. And then, obviously, there
are also not only books as an introduction to philosophy, philosophy and Christianity.
Speaking of this the apostolic fathers, also stories of monothematics, of origins Augustine
Lipona, Tertullian, John Chrysostom and so many others. Justin Martyr, who
we have talked about, but also martyrs and persecutors is another fantastic book and
one of the last is history of philosophy and theology connivance that has historically existed.
Don' t miss it. You can take one or two of them
as much as you can and have them in your private library. I don
' t know if you want to make any notes. Alfonso about it.
It' s not right. Good. Yes, well, Alfonso, he
always likes to talk a lot about himself, but I do because the truth
that has illustrated us and blessed us a lot with his writings, because listen
we left him here because we would follow him. But radio time also has
a limit and so does yours. I thank you very much, Alfonso,
for your appearance on the train of life again and we will speak again any
time you have a good time. Thank you, but before you ended up
half lost, not talking about it, but about this booklet, which is
a little booklet that ormes what were born in the fifties, as I count,
and six It has to remember was the catechism that, necessarily in school
from the age of six we had to know by heart. I was little,
but it' s literally I have it because I' m a collector.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we were small and clear it cost
us a lot and besides, it' s nice. There I see it
and at that time I didn' t realize it, but there is Jesus
Christ and underneath children of all colors, there are all blacks here in this
part are two black whites, a cobrizo. It will be beautiful the Christ
who had something to teach to all children. And I mention it more than
anything, because it has been since the sixties, as already of children we
were taught the apostolic creed. We' ve been talking about the church parents
and under it today I understand. At that time I recited it because if
not the Master punished me, because I did not explain, it had to
be memorized. Yes, yes, I create an almighty father uncle, creator
of the earth' s heaven. We believe Jesus Christ, that only son,
our lord and then follow the scripture, I believe in the Holy Spirit
and so on. But of course, this creed is very simple. It
was for the children, but we all remember and have ever been to the
Catholic Church that they also recite after this so simple so that we realize the
evolution, the idea, the trinity, the so- called constantinopolitan Nicene creed,
that is, the creed of Nicaea. If you notice one important thing,
if you see here more or less, in this column, it is
the apostolic creed, let us say the primitive creed and in this column,
which is much broader, it is the creed of Nicaea. And there you
can see that they have already passed between one and another almost three hundred years.
The first says I believe in God the Father the second to clear,
I believe in one God, because there and some accused Christianity that believed among
the gods they are clear, they believe one God father, almighty, creator
of heaven and earth of all things visible and invisible is worth that we have
no doubt. The first creed said because these were cretes, which were recited
to those who were to be baptized. This you baptize in this faith and
they had to recite from memory. That' s why atheism taught him by
heart. It is secret, as if he was a Christian who admitted that,
but they could only explain it to God the Father, for that is
it. Then they make it clear that this God is a God only says
so I believe in Jesus Christ nothing more. But then he adds the creed.
Here is a long sentence, but the way to read, because Julius
also knows it from memory, I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, only
son of God, born of the Father before all the centuries, God,
of God light of light, true God, true begotten, not created of
the same nature of the Father by whom all was made that by us,
men, and by our salvation under heaven that left here are already all theology
and the same in the Holy Spirit, says, I believe in the Holy
Spirit And there they ended already here, does not say. I believe in
the Holy Spirit, Lord and giver of life that comes from the father and
son, that with the father and son receives the same worship and glory and
that spoke by the prophets here And it is very nice to keep in mind
how the logs is a development, it is a process and that sometimes I
myself as young. This I recited because until I was seventeen years old I
became, for until I was fourteen years old, but until I was fourteen
I went to church because I liked the Catholic Church. And this we had
to recite every Sunday and they' re still in the subconscious. But it
’ s nice to see that process that you can’ t think about,
as already reading the Bible they have plenty for your spiritual life. But to
understand faith in depth we have to study a little bit, not advance on
the subject of theology with people who are able, so that we take advantage
of all the wealth and do not fall into heresies or that flutists who are
saying look. I have here a truth that you don' t know because
your Church has deceived you and I don' t know in groups and estates
what there are. No, then good that we see how the Church has
always had, in every age, has been specifying the terms to the principles
worth with the cred that of children. But now, as Paul says,
there are moments to drink milk, but there is another time, as a
Christian, that we must already eat solid life. He came to all who
I am not gain as Christians, who are already solid people, who are
well fed so that he will do better in life, in everything, in
all his relationships, not only in the mind, but in his way of
treating those around him. That' s how it is, my friend.
Thank you for this point. In addition, a review an example very very
very very graphic, because, for example, in the Creed Niceno is thinking
I good that Athanasius in the fourth century, just already does that he had
tried several times, but unsuccessfully. But finally Tarasius' s thesis is imposed
on claiming the divinity of Jesus Christ. And well, because widespread Christianity had
adopted this heresy, it was not that it minimized the person of Jesus Christ.
So the thing is, it' s interesting, it' s very
interesting. And then see about the creeds, me or the catechism. Yes,
the truth is that there were things that were interesting and now contrasting them
strikes us very much. But well, thank God we have all those writings
that help us, because nothing once again, Alfonso, dear friend, infinite
graces and until the next I send you a hug. Thank you, goodbye
Alfonso Wow. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we' re in a hurry.
But how good to fight Alfonso wardrobe historian and writer, prolific, besides,
very good writer and then doctor also in theology and history. And the
truth is that it places us, gives us those glimpses of history, because
nothing more and nothing less. We have reached the final conclusion. I remind
you that e- mail from the train of life. If you want to
write to me to suggest that I talk about anything, it' s Julio
Pérez Arroba the train of life. Period. It' s Julio Pérez Arroba,
the train of life, point that' s where you can write me
directly and I' ll go forward. We are already practically the week of
the beginning of April, April, May June and the 10th of June the
National Call for Prayer of all the evangelical churches of the country, of the
State in its seventeen autonomies, is called. We are called to pray for
our country, for Spain. We pray for this country. We pray that
God will bless this country. There are some specific proposals and for God to
bless our cities, bless local governments by helping them with wisdom, grace,
there are still open doors and freedom to proclaim Jesus' message and also that
our rulers be practical equity, in democratic equity and also in justice and remember
Saturday, June 10, in different cities. The calls are for marches,
points, and prayer meetings, for there we will be God through the direction
also of his national coordinator, Samuel Vázquez, and we will all be aware.
For today, nothing more and nothing less has spoken to them a good
friend, Julio Pérez. Until the next Chao. Evangelical churches are a place
of peace and friendship. You can freely attend the nearest evangelical church in your
neighborhood or your population. You' ll be very welcome.