WEBVTT

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Good morning, friends and friends,
I am Julio Pérez and this is the

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train of life, a radio adventure
along the routes of the heart. I

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want to invite you to travel with
me and dream together in a better world,

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a different world where men and women
of good will can live in peace

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and freedom. The train of life
is a magaxin of good news and hope.

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This is a radio time specially designed
for people like you and as so

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many seekers of truth, of the
only truth that can make us authentic,

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the free mind see you. I
invite you to travel with us on the

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safest train of all, which will
definitely take you to safe harbour. This

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is the train of life. Or
very good morning, Spain, bon day,

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friends and friends, impenitent travelers,
tireless of the train of life.

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Thirty- one year later we continue
to travel through the children of the human

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soul and the most intimate paths of
the heart many times and also the present

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day accompanies us. Let' s
go there today too. But very good

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morning, ladies and gentlemen and ladies
and gentlemen, also to all the pilgrims

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of the waves. It' s
a very affectionate greeting from the one you

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' re talking about. Julio Perez, a good friend, a good friend,

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I don' t know if to
say of the soul. For so

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long I don' t think it' s because being a friend of the

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soul is being in the good and
bad moments of life and it' s

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always being very close. No,
but here we are. Here, are

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we with God' s favor?
Never better said, with God' s

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favor. We' re with you
on this train. This is a living

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parable of the things of life the
train. The train suggests really impressive route

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routes. Sometimes there are trains of
these mythical, but also in our geography,

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in Spain, the train is an
important element. It is associated with

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our good way of life. Now
at the same time not only has the

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Euromet and Albia been left behind and
I no longer tell the oldest trains.

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But the train is still a suggestive
place. Let' s go reading now.

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Everybody' s got their tablets,
their laptops. There is also WiFi

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on trains, because what else we
want. If this is Hollywood in the

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European version, and there we are. And that' s where we'

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re traveling on one ho and the
other. And today we will also pick

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up good friends from this traveling train
We will be in first place, today

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we will pick up our friend Gina, Gina Campallance. Gina Campallance. She

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was originally an artist, she was
a singer there in her years. Well,

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it' s not that I'
m too old, because she always

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jokes about her own person, but
it' s not much less. She

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is a woman with a lot of
nerve, with a lot of determination and,

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obviously, she is the president of
the association to help mourn those who

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are grieving. Saying goodbye already lost
a son in the flower of youth,

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a boy David, a beautiful boy
that I knew very well, the letta

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boy that things were going very well
and in a way also unexpected, suffered

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an ovite in the sea and well, since I, for imagine for a

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mother and then, from there,
she started, because her process was long

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to disconnect from bitterness and I do
not know of so many feelings found because

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of the loss of a son in
the flower of life. And of course

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all this to her took her later
by a person who always gleaned if a

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person very quiet for everything, communicator, worked on zero wave also as an

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announcer. She has been a singer, the woman of faith too, but

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a very enterprising woman with her husband, Julio architect, a renowned architect there

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in the city, on the island
of Ibiza, And well, this led

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her to think about helping others,
the people who suffer this handicap of the

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loss of a loved one and organized
meetings, conferences, radio programs, she

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was for a time, a year, she was in Barcelona for professional reasons

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and the truth that she even worked
with us here with a weekly program in

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wave peace and the program was,
say, goodbye and all. And it

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' s years and the concern for
this and it' s still there and

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it' s still there. In
fact, they are going to have a

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forum, a conference to a workshop
shortly that also communicates us of organized by

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the Spanish Evangelical Alliance also in this
regard and we will be talking with how

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to process, how to manage the
loss of a loved one and how to

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deal with it and until when how
to what Well, there are several questions

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that we are going to ask you
to help us to answer them from your

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experience and that of so many others
that you have already seen and heard and

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have gathered many things. Well,
then, this will be the first stop

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of the train of life with Gina
Campalans and we will arrive at the second,

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our friend, Dr Rocca. Again
we' re going to take back

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the doctor of this traveling train,
the train of life with the dotor.

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Rocca is everyone' s doctor in
this house. But today, about spring,

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that blood alters and allergies shoot,
the sacks begin to seem devouring,

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they begin there to attack all the
most hypersensitive places, the allergic vulnerability of

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human bodies. And there' s
the other rock to go through. How

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to try to see those allergies and
also what are the most relevant treatments against

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allergies. Well, then, we' ll be listening to you here today

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on the train of life, to
our friend, Dr Roca, talking about

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allergy treatment. Let' s see
what he tells us and then we'

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ll finally get to an interesting station. There we are already going to get

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a little more sane and we are
going to talk to Don Alfonso Ropero,

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Alfonso Ropero for us Alfons Ropero is
a walking library and that is eh,

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apart from that he is a bibliophile
man in the most benign sense of the

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word, because he has a huge
library in his house in Ciudad Real,

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and he has been for many years
Clie' s publishing director. Now he

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' s retired, but he'
s still working on some issues. He

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is a national and domestic lecturer.
He is a historian and also a writer

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of very good works, and we
are going to talk to him today about

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something he has worked and published in
CLI, among other things, and he

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is the apostolic fathers. We'
re not going to see them. I

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' m going to put in perspective. Those who understand more than they are

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readers know what I am talking about, but some of us are not so

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up- to- date about this
is the successors of the apostles, already,

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for example, John Policarpo Tertullian,
a little later, Ambrose Gregory and

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all the fathers of the first century, especially the second century III, especially

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those first three centuries, who were
the men of faith who led the church

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of Jesus Christ in the midst of
those avatars until Constantine arrived and somehow made

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the Edict of Milan, with the
conversion to Christianity of the Roman Empire,

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which was beautiful. Also at first
it was impressive because it was super positive,

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but then everything became institutionalized and lost
vigor, lost strength. Christianity with

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that, too. But evidently it
was also Constantine' s political strategy to

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unify the empire of the time in
the 4th century And well then there were

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already characters like St Augustine of Hippo
in the 4th century and a little later,

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and the truth that they were insignious
characters and others and so many others

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and what they told us. These
men also had to fight heresies, some

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very important against the Christian faith.
But well, Augustine Dipona was an enlightened,

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he was a teacher of philosophical rhetoric
who experienced a dramatic conversion to Christ

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to Christianity. His mother Monica stole
God for her life, because it was

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once he lived a very dissolute and
such life, but very interesting. But

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then he became a man, a
champion of the faith, and he contributed

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much to Christianity and so many others, and it is interesting to see and

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all these men have created historical sequences
and have led the Church by the best

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possible ways in the midst of many
historical avatars, incidences of kingdoms, attacks

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and counterattacks, persecutions, martyrs,
favors and misfortunes. Well of all good,

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then we' ll talk to Don
Alfonso wardrobe about this issue here,

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on the train this morning don'
t miss it. Today here and on

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the train we will travel together.
Here we go. You can send your

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message through our Facebook, through our
Facebook entering between its double- point see

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the train of life, point is
the train of life, point is.

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They remember that this way you collaborate
with us. Tell us your impressions,

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ask us and participate actively. We
want to meet you. We want to

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meet you. Enter our website three
month double points the train of life,

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dot is and follow us through Facebook, through fok even if the sun stops

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shining and the moons will turn out
the night, even if they are denied

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coma and once as I go through
if in fine I will not meet,

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I will rejoice and in front of
the war I will smile, although the

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bird of which they sing to me
and a dense fogmerde even though the fire

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no longer hot the same already it
costs me breath, I will not give

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up, I will not give up, I will rejoice who amate you already

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will smile, I will not give
up, I will resist and in the

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midst of the test I will overcome, I will not laugh, I will

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resist. We will cross the valleys
and the great finite cities, plains,

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endless mountains, low that not of
stars, come out soldiers of flame,

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we will open the way to where
we are sold, We are pilgrims,

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see these stations the arrows, my
bimsic words, Masto does not rekindle me,

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I rejoice and before the war or
will not surrender me? Georsstigan and,

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in the middle of the test for
your safety, wear the belt.

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We' ve replaced this announcement of
nine hundred and seventy- three because not

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putting on the seatbelt looks like things
from the pin. Let' s look

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at the effect of a collision at
fifty kilometers per hour lin pin tulo,

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but it isn' t and one
in four road deaths wasn' t wearing

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a seat belt. Put on a
belt Directorate General of Traffic, Ministry of

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the Interior, Government of Spain.
I want next to me to control everything

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you do, you see and you
feel. If there' s everything you

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get, I want fat time.
Abuse doesn' t come suddenly. Ministerio

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de Sanidad, de Servicios Sociales a
egalidad Gobierno de España. My project,

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that my grandson, my man,
is super- grandmother, is a pillar

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and shell and one of them has
depression, but their dreams, like any

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other, have no limits. Let' s not put them on us.

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Integration is always the best response for
the social inclusion of people with mental health

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problems, Ministry of Health, social
services and equality Government of Spain. If

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you want to visit our website,
the wwwww. Point the train of life,

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the train of life or better,
ladies and gentlemen, we already have

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our friend China Campallance in the bud, talking to us today about keys,

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because we need some keys to overcome
the mourning for the loss of a loved

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one. The death of a loved
one without a doubt is a traumatic episode

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for those who live it, for
those who go through that experience, it

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is as if a piece of the
world had been completely broken, like a

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part of the map that had disappeared. For us he has or has to

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suffer it, he has to learn
to live a life in which that loved

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person will no longer be and it
is not easy. It must be through

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grief and with an emotional response to
loss, which is long and the answer

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is sometimes ambiguous. Not many mixed
and painful feelings, but it is necessary

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to regain stability again. And let' s talk to someone who is precisely

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president of the mourning aid association,
like Gina Camparals, say goodbye also as

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he told them in his own experience
has lived and he has lived with many

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others who he has accompanied during their
lifetime. And there we have it.

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Gina Campalance, good morning, Gina
good morning, July, long time no

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see. There yes, yes,
live and live, virtually wanting to see

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you and see you, our dear
friend Julio, my compadre hears talking about

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the subject, the theme of mourning
is a thing that is always good since

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you lived the dramatic experience of losing
a child. Right, that' s

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where it all starts. Not sure. Evidently, I never thought it would

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be for this that I would dedicate
myself habitually and professionally. I don'

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t know what to call ministerial.
Or, well, what I spend more

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time apart from my family, is
really this. But, as you have

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made clear, twenty years ago,
our eldest son, we had six children

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and on September 12 of the year
two thousand three, David, who was

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our eldest son, died of a
scuba accident. Then, evidently, our

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life was paralyzed, so to speak, our happy world up of the great

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family, for of course, there
is a before and there is a after,

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because you can' t expect anything
like that to happen in your life

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and for any family that suffers a
loss of a child, for it is

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a tsunami, yes, and but
thank God, it had to be enough

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years for me, to put it
this way, to go through it in

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a healthy way. I mean,
I' m not traumatized. Our family

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' s fine. We can talk
about David normally without everyone crying. But

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obviously David' s gone. Then
we have had to relearn to live without

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him, to cling to other hopes, I as a believer to the confidence

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that one day I will see him
again. But you have to relearn to

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live without the presence of absence,
that is, with the absence of the

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presence of your loved one is not
an easy way. As you said,

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there are no magic formulas, but
it is true that there is an ingredient

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that is what makes the difference and
is the attitude. I always say we

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' ve had hundreds of people we' ve been with all these years and

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right away, not right away,
but soon you realize the person you want,

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you want to get back on your
feet and the one you don'

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t. Then there are two groups
of people. There are people who fall

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into the poor victimism of me because
it has happened to me, because if

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I am a good one, if
I did things. Well, there are

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people who just don' t understand
why it happened to them and then get

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stuck in this question. And then
there are people, because it costs them,

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but they accept it and then they
try to reconnect to life clear tools

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that they have around them and with
what they have, of course, because

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that' s what we have to
learn how we can help ourselves. But

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someone has, someone has. It
is good that someone is next to these

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people who live in the loss of
a loved one, of course. Obviously,

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recovery will be better if there is
a good family support, of friends,

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of grief support groups, although it
is also important to highlight Julio that

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not all people, i e,
need external help. That is to say,

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I believe that within the human being
there are capacities to survive the most

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tragic events that may occur to us. But, obviously, to have a

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support around and people who know how
to understand that they can listen to you

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in a quiet, active way,
without giving you advice, without making the

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famous phrases made. It has been
God' s will or you will have

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another son or lived the time.
In short, there are phrases that would

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00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:26.039
be better not to pronounce them.
But of course it' s good to

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be with you in this process.
What happens many times July is that this

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is a very long process and most
people, both friends and people in your

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community, of faith or family,
are there for a while, but then

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they get tired, among other things
because they don' t know what to

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do or what to say. Then
the person is left alone with it,

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feeling the same intensity of pain,
and it is usually when they ask help

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groups where they see that already in
their environment they do not even dare to

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verbalize their pain, to express it
with weeping, because they think that they

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are tiring those around them and then
they seek a space in which they can

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be understood, where the common language
of all people who meet is grief.

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It is the language of mourning,
of course, because there are the stages

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of mourning. The confusion, the
anger, the anger, the pain,

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the guilt, the sadness, finally, the affectation and the restoration. These

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are the seven stages identified. As
you identify them like that, I kind

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of do. In fact, what
happens is that many times these stages can

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be overcome. I mean, I
always say and besides, I just lived

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it a short time ago because the
mother of a friend of mine died,

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the husband of a friend of mine
died. So I' d say the

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first part is like the show,
I mean, the person doesn' t

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just believe that this is happening,
even when it' s funny Julio,

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even when we could say that there
was an announced death, not because of

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a cancer disease, a long illness, like the person should be preparing for

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the end. And yet, my
surprise is that, well, it'

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s no longer a surprise, but
I was shocked, but I keep seeing

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that people don' t think this
is going to happen they always think that

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there will be a pill or something, a new medication, and that will

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make the person finally not die.
But, as I was saying in that

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first stage of the shok, the
person does not assimilate it. But it

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has some advantages. This first stage
is that it allows you to do all

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those things that need to be done
when a loved one dies, I call

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00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:15.119
you I know how to get in
touch with the funeral pomps, do the

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funeral, the preparations that I tell
you. In these days I have been

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remembering how it may be that Julio
and I, after David died, the

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next day, could be talking to
a gentleman quietly, quietly in quotation marks,

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the coffin you are looking for,
the people you are calling the newspaper

251
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' s announcement the flowers. But
this is because emotions have not yet blossomed,

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that is, they have not exploded. You' re still in a

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bubble where you just didn' t
believe this. Then, as you well

254
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say, there is a whole process
at this stage in which it already begins

255
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to emerge, since all the anger, sadness, misunderstanding, non- stalgia,

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well, a whole series of emotions. Then, little by little,

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one comes to what is called acceptance. And in this process it is when

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we can begin to elaborate, healthily, because the process of mourning. And,

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lastly, it would not be emotionally
relocating the deceased and continuing to live,

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that is, adapting yourself to the
fact that he is not present.

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But you' re integrating all those
memories that you have with that person and,

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of course, it' s not
about you forgetting it and going through

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it, but you learn to live
without that person, because you should learn.

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Not everyone gets it, of course. But there' s another one

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among that you' re mentioned,
which is very interesting. There is a

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danger and it is not to process
the duel well, that is, to

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make a shortcut, a momentary run
forward. But if there is not a

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well- run process, this can
turn out to be a boomerang that can

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turn you back and give you a
very strong one in your life. You

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can' t come down. We
are clear, obviously, as I have

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always said. I mean, grief
is not a disease, it' s

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a natural process, absolutely natural,
as it is a reaction, as if

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you drop boiling oil on it,
because you have some burns, then you

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have to pass some balms, you
have to make some cures sooner or later.

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This is gonna be all right.
If you obviously don' t put

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on the right ointment or don'
t put on, don' t do

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it, this can infect you then
with grief at the emotional, psychic and

278
00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:00.319
spiritual levels is exactly the same.
I mean, mourning isn' t a

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disease, but if you don'
t perform those tasks we call what we

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should do during mourning, mourning can
be conquered. It can become a pathological

281
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flight. We can get to have
what a deep depression. And that'

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s when you really need psychological,
psychiatric help and there are people who have

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00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.359
a hard time getting out because look. I' d like to read you

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00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:32.519
what you' re looking at.
This is the brochure that we have from

285
00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:37.640
our association can not see no.
Yeah. Everybody does, yeah. Look

286
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:44.680
I' d like to just read
this to you which is very important,

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00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.400
because I think it' s what
helps people. It says the benefits of

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attending groups, of helping grief or
not, but what it says is the

289
00:30:55.000 --> 00:31:00.039
fact that putting words to pain helps
a lot to start healing it. We

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00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:04.559
know that the only way to heal
grief is through it and the best way

291
00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:11.279
to do so is to experience and
express the emerging feelings. The pain,

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00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:14.079
the sadness, the going to,
the guilt, the shame, the longing,

293
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:22.519
the disbelief, that is, the
tasks of mourning partly have to do

294
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:30.200
with that verbalization that express how I
feel. So, in groups, what

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00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:37.759
we do is we actively hold and
listen to these people who need to repeat

296
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:41.440
over and over again, because I
was at home and the phone rang and

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00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:45.599
they told me that my son had
had an accident and we had to go

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there. Then you' re putting
order in the middle of the confusion and

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00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:56.279
you' re slowly assimilated. This
is real. Then go expressing how I

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00:31:56.359 --> 00:32:02.480
feel. I feel like that day
you might have been mad at your son,

301
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:07.519
at your husband, and a few
hours later they tell you he'

302
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:13.000
s dead. Then it' s
there. Often the feeling of guilt is

303
00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:19.200
left in many of the following.
That too, the feeling is curious,

304
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.839
but it is very true. Hey
people who have got something left behind with

305
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.920
that, but or something that hasn' t done well and they think they

306
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:32.000
' re part of the problem causing
death and everything, and this is very

307
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:37.000
fustigating. Not sure, that'
s very fustigating and then it' s

308
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:43.519
one of the things to try to
help the person first forgive himself in case

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00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:49.160
he might have some guilt. That
is to say, imagine some parents that

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00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:52.440
it is the birthday of their son, who turns eighteen, buy him a

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00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:58.720
motorcycle, The boy goes out with
the bike and has an accident and dies,

312
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:02.200
that, of course, that is
left to that family. If we

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00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:07.839
hadn' t bought him the bike, then well, we have to work

314
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:12.000
hard to free people from what good
we' re going to see was an

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00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.359
accident. Another brother had a motorcycle
and it didn' t happen to him.

316
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.640
Then it also depends on how the
child drove, not that of skipping

317
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:24.759
a traffic signal or running too much
or simply that it was an accident.

318
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.359
I mean, getting people out of
guilt isn' t an easy task,

319
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:37.920
but we' re trying to work
a lot on this. No, yeah,

320
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.480
yeah, yeah, well, sure, it' s very important.

321
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:44.920
It is very important, after that
what remains is also I think that during

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00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:50.480
the meeting groups, where it is
verbalized. That is very important, because

323
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:57.640
when people sometimes talk on a recurring
basis, they also free themselves from these

324
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:01.960
things. And it is that a
group therapy that you also perform, in

325
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:07.679
the groups that you good organize to
see. It' s funny, because

326
00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:13.440
we say that a meeting group is
not a self- help group or a

327
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:17.079
therapy group. A meeting group is
a group from which experiences are shared and

328
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:23.760
experience is not considered therapy, but
development, that is, groups are not

329
00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:30.199
necessarily therapeutic. That' s what
I' m talking about. Yeah,

330
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:35.360
sure,' cause there' s
that feedback. I tell you, I

331
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:38.119
tell you how I am, what
happened to me, and there' s

332
00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:42.760
another person who' s listening and
maybe he' s at another point and

333
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:47.400
listening to the other person as the
tools he' s used to go through,

334
00:34:50.360 --> 00:35:00.800
through, help, so there'
s a therapy generated among people who

335
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:02.400
are through using the same situation.
Yeah, at that level, at that

336
00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:07.559
level I understand therapeutic. Yes,
but it is true that, as you

337
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:12.559
say, and then there is a
question throughout that process longer or more not

338
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:17.000
so long for some and longer for
others so many and some lake to others

339
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:24.280
pathological, because never get rid of
him that mother or father that carries in

340
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:30.519
the soul this and there is no
way. The tragedy that happened with your

341
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:40.039
son or wife or husband is always
present. But good memories also when processing

342
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:45.039
those groups, it' s important. Either in family or between husbands,

343
00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:52.440
the good memories of the person who
is already deceased, disappeared are very important,

344
00:35:52.440 --> 00:36:00.920
right. I think so, because
they are fundamental, because when a

345
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:06.400
family member is missing, what can' t is not going to disappear from

346
00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:09.840
the map of that family. So, for example, since David died,

347
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:17.119
from the zero minute since the first
year, we commemorate that day, then

348
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:24.559
we remember David with pictures, with
videos, we remember anecdotes, so what

349
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:30.559
we do is that what we should
do is not take that member out of

350
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:37.039
the family as if it had never
existed. This happens on many occasions.

351
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:42.440
I mean, it' s such
a taboo that there' s around the

352
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:45.239
person who' s passed away,
that you don' t talk about it

353
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:47.960
anymore. It doesn' t matter, it takes out all the things that

354
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:53.239
were there from that person and because
it hurts them, because it' s

355
00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:58.280
very painful. At first, I
realize that the encounters we have now,

356
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:01.239
after twenty years, or even those
we had ten years or fifteen years ago,

357
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:08.119
are not the same as those we
had at the beginning. In my

358
00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:13.880
case, I used to take a
little pulse from the family. How were

359
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:19.119
the rest of the family, because
this is very important. Julio. Many

360
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:23.440
times when a mother loses a child
she forgets that her other children have lost

361
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:28.199
her brother, that the father has
lost his son, that is, I

362
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:31.800
have lost my son, that I
carried him in my bowels, but my

363
00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:38.880
husband was her fishing companion. They
had their brothers. He was a very

364
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:43.960
important figure to them, their older
brother, that is, the whole family

365
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:47.360
hurts. Then you have to work
with the whole family to help get through

366
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:52.360
it in a healthy way. And
it' s true, as you said

367
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:57.320
there are many women who, and
above all I wouldn' t say that

368
00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:00.360
it doesn' t happen now,
but everyone, everyone is. We have

369
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:06.199
in mind the image of these women
dressed in black in time in villages or

370
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:09.599
in many places where as a child
had died when, therefore, they have

371
00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:15.159
stayed there not and is the victim
of the family and the family cannot evolve

372
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:23.559
because there is a member is always
suffering. Not how interesting the whole subject,

373
00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:30.280
talking about how to overcome through grief, a process of mourning, the

374
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:35.840
loss of a loved one. Hey
I give a little strike to the interview

375
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.719
with one thing that was going through
my mind at first and it' s

376
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:44.639
a little bit may seem a little
strange, but not to me, it

377
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:47.360
' s not and I would like
you to do a reflection on this.

378
00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:55.239
I was thinking about the war in
Ukraine, the loss of so many children

379
00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:00.800
who lose good. Here we have
several orphanages, even in Spain, in

380
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:07.760
various places of Ukrainian children, in
Europe many and then the women who have

381
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:15.039
lost their husbands countless of them and
well, and entire families who have also

382
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:27.679
died from the bombings of this sinister
character who indiscriminately attacks Ukraine to invade it.

383
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:30.920
But beyond political issues, that is, the loss of a country like

384
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:38.320
this, the trauma has to be
enormous. Huge, right, it'

385
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:44.800
s a country in mourning. It' s a country in mourning and it

386
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:49.559
' s obviously going to leave some
impressive sequels. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

387
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:52.400
we don' t know how long
it' s gonna last, but

388
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:58.079
of course, as you say,
separate families first. We' ve usually

389
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:01.719
seen most women, grandmothers, mothers
with children, fathers stay in front of

390
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:12.400
us on buses. That separation already
leads to trauma in families. Then,

391
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.480
then, if they find out that
the father has passed away, for imagine,

392
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:28.400
this will require many years of help. Let us trust that there are

393
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:37.119
organizations that put in place psychological aid
plans, because it is a traumatized country.

394
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:39.880
Yeah, and I' m gonna
tell you an example that has nothing

395
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:45.199
to do with it, but just
so you see it' s like the

396
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.679
tip of the Iceberg last year,
not the other one. He died in

397
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:57.360
Ibiza in a French boy from French
school. He died tragically, very young,

398
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:02.199
at the age of twelve, making
Snorkell also died gado. As David

399
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:10.719
I had an only child and I
was called from French school. I was

400
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:17.280
called by the director of the French
school to see how we could make an

401
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:22.480
intervention in crisis because the whole school
was in mourning. The parents were in

402
00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:25.920
mourning, I was in the teachers, the parents of the children going to

403
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:31.000
class with their children were in pain, with this child and all these children

404
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:37.960
who had lost their classmate were in
mourning. So, imagine, this child

405
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:45.960
dies because a week before the start
of French school, which you already know

406
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:53.199
begins French school usually starts a week
before national schools. Then I remember,

407
00:41:53.280 --> 00:42:00.800
because having to give talks and help
the whole collective. It was a collective

408
00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:07.239
duel and I did see the most
that impressed me clearly. The parents did

409
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:13.159
not know if they still had to
see the parents of this child who had

410
00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:19.760
died. The children did not know
how to manage the loss of their classmate

411
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:22.360
they had been with since they were
five or four years old. No,

412
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:28.199
then we use it. I went
with a partner, with a girl from

413
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:32.079
my team who has also written several
books about the help of the grief that

414
00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:37.599
is called" Thanks life for how
to teach children" And then what we

415
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:42.840
did was in class. We took
off all the tables and we all sat

416
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:47.800
on the floor, we all sat
in a circle and then with a cushion

417
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:51.360
we were passing this cushion as a
child. Every time a child had the

418
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:58.039
cushion in his arms, that is, he had it, he had to

419
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:02.679
comment on how clear he felt.
The children began to verbalize for the first

420
00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:08.519
time what had meant to them the
death of nells of this child and then,

421
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:15.199
well, it was tremendous July,
when one began to cry and the

422
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:19.840
other began to express that he dreamed
of him and the other that he would

423
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:22.960
not see him again and that where
he was was tremendous, that is,

424
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:27.920
it was therapeutic and helped them to
a barbarity. So I think all these

425
00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:30.920
people, especially these kids that you
were asking me, what they' re

426
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:37.840
going to need is to verbalize how
they feel, that is if they leave

427
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:45.000
it inside. These children may end
up very traumatized, but they find a

428
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:52.679
channel through institutions, groups that worry
about helping them express themselves. I assure

429
00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:58.480
you, they can be fine.
You do not understand why they are clear,

430
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:01.079
because in addition to the horror of
war, besides the loss, which

431
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:07.800
is the worst of everything and the
disappearance of families and sometimes entire cities,

432
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:12.360
the horror of everything, of the
noise, of the noise of war,

433
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:16.119
of the situation of chaos. And
that must also be borne in mind that

434
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:21.840
I have spoken to many of the
Ukrainians, of those who have arrived and

435
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:27.000
of those who have already been here, and the Ukrainian people are a strong

436
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:32.440
people, they are a brave,
wary people, it is probably in Europe

437
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:36.599
of those who are most eh and
that is good. But yet it is

438
00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:42.559
insufficient, because the tragedy is there. But, well, anyway, we

439
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:45.639
do good in help, but good
was a note or it' s not

440
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:50.760
okay. I believe that specifically yes. Yes, I do not know whether

441
00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:53.679
Ukraine has already entered the European Union, or is about to, not yet,

442
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:59.800
but it is, it will,
it will, despite the whole of

443
00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:06.199
it. I believe that this would
be an outstanding subject for the countries that

444
00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:10.679
are neighbouring and that we have not
gone through that war to take over.

445
00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:16.599
I want to say if, thank
God, this war is over and they

446
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:22.559
are starting to return all to their
countries and all first of all the state

447
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:25.599
in which they are going to find
their homes, their country, their city,

448
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:31.159
that is, this is a collective
drama, but I believe that one

449
00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:39.000
of the tasks that the rest of
the countries have will be to help,

450
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:45.800
to send psychological help, that is, to help alleviate all this situation that

451
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:49.000
all these families have left. No
doubt. Surely that is certainly envisaged in

452
00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:54.360
the reconstruction of Ukraine. When the
war ends one way or another, it

453
00:45:54.480 --> 00:46:00.239
will have to end because and then
the reconstruction will most require a very,

454
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:08.519
very large, very massive psychological attention. Yes, it' s true,

455
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:15.079
and as far as this aspect is
concerned, we were talking about therapies,

456
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:20.800
accompanying water therapists. In fact,
you do that, you do it so

457
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:25.159
much with so much affection and with
that burden that came up in your heart

458
00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:30.400
to help people in this emotional crisis
situation. But also, in addition to

459
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:36.000
all the tools that are the most
interesting for the day to day, there

460
00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:39.440
is also faith and spirituality, truth, also that is an important ingredient many

461
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:45.639
times in this whole process of pain, truth, well, many times I

462
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:51.559
think it is fundamental, because,
obviously, I always say that faith makes

463
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:58.920
a big difference. Having faith in
God. Having faith in God in the

464
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:05.239
midst of a tragedy like this for
me marks two great differences. First,

465
00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:08.760
we believe that God is good,
this is not a punishment, that there

466
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:17.079
is a purpose behind what may have
happened and then we hope that we will

467
00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:24.400
meet our loved ones again. So
I' ve seen for all these years,

468
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:30.559
as you know, our groups are
neither evangelical nor anything, i e,

469
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:35.519
they' re grief aid groups where
people come with faith, without agnostic

470
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:40.800
faith. I' ve had even
a Muslim woman, we' ve had

471
00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:49.360
people with all the philosophies in place, and then it' s clear that

472
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:54.239
lack of faith makes such a thing
meaningless. I' ve also seen,

473
00:47:54.920 --> 00:48:00.880
unfortunately, Julio. But it is
also part of the process of people who

474
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:07.000
have staggered in their faith because it
has been raised, as I told you

475
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:09.960
at the beginning, because God has
been able to do something to me,

476
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:15.360
as if it were a thing that
God, a direct intervention of God to

477
00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:21.519
harm you. Then I have seen
believing people that their ugly staggered in the

478
00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:23.599
midst of this, and yet I
have seen other people, for they have

479
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:28.880
grasped more, whether or not they
believed. Now we have the case of

480
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:34.079
a man who was not a believer
and yet his wife has recently died.

481
00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:37.760
On Christmas Eve, his wife dies, on Christmas Day, his mother dies.

482
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:43.079
A few days later he dies of
his brother. Then a man truly

483
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:51.280
troubled, a name which he has
found in the priest, in the priest

484
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:54.760
who is in the people, for
a balm of peace. That' s

485
00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:59.320
good, I' m amazed.
I' m looking forward to meeting this

486
00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:02.440
priest. I' m going to
go see him one day because I realize

487
00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:07.280
that the person who came in this
man, who came in at first a

488
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:12.239
few months ago, who was very
angry at everything and I see how he

489
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.480
' s calming down. Then he
tells us in the groups that I have

490
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:22.000
spoken to this priest and that this
priest has given him a series of advices

491
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:25.079
of words that relieve his soul.
Then this man is clinging to the faith

492
00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:30.480
he did not have before the death
of his wife, mother and brother.

493
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:38.000
However, I have other people who
were very believers who participated and I am

494
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:45.039
referring to a general Christian belief.
Most who connect are Catholic people, because

495
00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:52.079
they had their own fellowship that they
went to their Masses and stopped going and

496
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:58.360
attending because they were angry with God. Not then, well, what I

497
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:02.119
do in these groups is talk to
them about what helped me and I grabbed

498
00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:07.400
God like an anchor. You understand
I said this. If I' m

499
00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:12.280
not holding onto him, I don' t know how I' m gonna

500
00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:19.960
get through this. But I can
also tell you July that faith does not

501
00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:25.639
free us from suffering. Of course
not. That is, there are some

502
00:50:25.719 --> 00:50:31.239
words of Jesus that say in the
world you will have affliction, but trust

503
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:37.280
I have overcome the world. Then
I interpret this as suffering. No one

504
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:42.360
' s going to take it from
me, that is, I didn'

505
00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.320
t suffer less because I was a
believer. Come on. I spent a

506
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:49.920
long time, but a long time
it was a pain in my chest.

507
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:54.880
I remember it was like a daily
moaning. Sir, please help me because

508
00:50:55.119 --> 00:51:00.239
I can' t stand this pain. What is true is that I never

509
00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:07.079
fell into despair. I never let
myself be dragged away by the pain,

510
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:10.320
I mean, I didn' t
let the pain take over. I was

511
00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:15.400
aware that it was a stretch of
storm in my life, that I had

512
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:20.320
to pass it. I didn'
t know why or why, but it

513
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:23.719
had to be passed. And that' s what I did then. Me.

514
00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:30.880
For me faith is my anchor,
my anchor, my support, which

515
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:37.440
has allowed me to get here and
over the years discover that who could help

516
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:43.000
other people who were going through the
mourning, but someone who has gone through

517
00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:46.719
it, who is fine, who
has regained hope, who has projects that

518
00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:52.039
I am happy with. I mean, I' ve forgotten David. David

519
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:57.000
is never the engine of this,
for I would not have created this if

520
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:01.519
David had not died. But I' m fine, but I have illusions

521
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:06.880
and I' m able to have
a good time and enjoy life. And

522
00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:15.800
this I admit breaks the taboo or
the idea that it circulates around that if

523
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:19.760
a mother has lost a child,
she can never be happy again, because

524
00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:24.400
I do not agree. I'
m happy. I feel full, I

525
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:30.000
' m excited about a lot of
things. I' m still excited about

526
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:34.280
a lot of things in life.
I think there are still many adventures to

527
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:39.039
live, but I have had to
relearn to live without David, whom one

528
00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:47.360
day I will see again hear how
beautiful all these reflections, besides this testimonial

529
00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:52.480
experience and what we have spoken is
magnificent. I think it is doing a

530
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:55.920
lot of good to many people who
have lived it, who are living it

531
00:52:57.039 --> 00:53:00.400
or who have friends or family in
the area of influence. And this is

532
00:53:00.519 --> 00:53:07.840
balsamic. And it also guides and
helps. And for that very reason the

533
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:14.239
Evangelical Alliance has organized a workshop on
Saturday, April 29, which can be

534
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:16.840
by zoo, not for the people
who want to follow it. How to

535
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:21.400
create a grieving aid group, right, tell us a little bit. This

536
00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:28.280
yes, well, for a while
now, well, I don' t

537
00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:31.320
know if our listeners know him,
but you do, Marcos Zapata, who

538
00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:37.760
is the president of the Evangelical Alliance, proposed to me the idea of creating

539
00:53:37.480 --> 00:53:43.480
groups to prevent suicide and accompany and
help the mourning? Why with the idea

540
00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:51.960
of forming, informing, teaching,
bringing light to the churches, Spanish speaking

541
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:59.599
with the aim of forming, because
there is a lot of ignorance right within

542
00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:07.760
the churches in relation to mourning,
in relation to suicide. Many leaders may

543
00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:13.960
not know how to deal with all
these things. So, well, we

544
00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:19.519
have created this group in which they
are part of different people, among them,

545
00:54:19.719 --> 00:54:25.599
so, to see that I'
m going to tie up here,

546
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:30.320
is Charo López Pareja, who is
a cop, a police girl, and

547
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:37.800
who also created the association Vence that
is an association for prevention and help victims,

548
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:44.440
relatives, victims of which have died
by suicide. Then there is Hans

549
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:47.039
claus Ewen, who is a German
shepherd, as he says a German shepherd

550
00:54:47.079 --> 00:54:52.679
who does not bite. In addition, he has written several books about grief,

551
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:57.880
Yes, very good. And then
there' s conchi González, who

552
00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:00.719
' s in Galicia and she'
s a psychologist, she' s frames

553
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:05.719
and there' s me. So, what we' re doing periodically every

554
00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:14.039
good x months. We meet regularly
every month. And the idea is to

555
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:17.880
teach, teach, teach about different
things. We did some workshops recently on

556
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:23.440
the accompaniment in the mourning and charo
God on the prevention of suicide. And

557
00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:30.039
now this is what he' s
trying to teach. The aim is to

558
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:35.519
teach people to create mourning support groups
within churches, who may be trained to

559
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:42.480
do so. So, we'
re going to teach you how to create

560
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:45.679
a grief aid group, which is
a grief help group? How should it

561
00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:52.039
work, how should it work or
how should it work? Give some brushstrokes

562
00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:58.679
so that they begin to see people, specialized groups within churches that can be

563
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:04.639
dedicated, I do not tell you
in exclusivity, but that it is another

564
00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:09.679
tool for ecclesiastical or ecclesiastical within churches. So, April 29th, as you

565
00:56:10.239 --> 00:56:17.119
well said at 5: 00 p
m through a link that I guess you

566
00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:22.199
' ll spend later. No yes, yes, I' m already climbing

567
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:24.840
it to the wall, to the
walls of Facebook and Instagram, to both,

568
00:56:25.239 --> 00:56:30.880
then nothing. People just have to
sign up. It' s not

569
00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:37.280
free, because Marcos has come to
the conclusion that free things a lot of

570
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:38.519
people sign up and then they don' t go. No. So you

571
00:56:38.599 --> 00:56:44.719
already know that creating these events is
not the same platform for a hundred as

572
00:56:44.840 --> 00:56:51.320
for five hundred, as for a
thousand people. Then it is put as

573
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:55.159
a donation five euros for the person
who pays it, because it says hears,

574
00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:59.079
because this interests me. I want
to do it. Then the organizer,

575
00:56:59.800 --> 00:57:04.119
Carlos Fumero, already knows. Well, we' re going to create

576
00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:07.360
a platform, they' ve signed
up, they' ve written a hundred

577
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:07.239
or two hundred, so let'
s see how we do it. Not

578
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:13.960
magnificent, magnificent, done, this
is priceless. I' d tell you

579
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:15.639
yes, that' s right here. I think it' s interesting to

580
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:21.840
keep on training and learning and being
in order or knowing what' s happening

581
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:29.719
in the world and that we'
re people who have some training for different

582
00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:36.239
things. I think it' s
important that there are people within the churches

583
00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:40.159
who specialize in something. I always
say ah forgive, no, no,

584
00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:46.440
no, go ahead, I believe
you I always say that when a person

585
00:57:46.519 --> 00:57:52.679
I have a vision of the Church
as a hospital, as a place where

586
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:57.280
people arrive with a series of ailments
apart from their desire to follow Jesus.

587
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:01.880
But we all come with backpacks.
So, if you notice, I don

588
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:05.679
' t know if you' ve
had to go to the E R,

589
00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:07.559
I hope not, but I,
with six children, imagine the times I

590
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:10.199
' ve gone to the E R. So we all know that when we

591
00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:14.000
get to the E R, the
first thing they do is a triage.

592
00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:19.079
No, then, first they take
you to a little room where there'

593
00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:23.400
s a nurse, where she asks
you a series of things and finds out

594
00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:29.840
what your discomfort is, what your
pain is, and then they already refer

595
00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:32.119
you to a heart specialist or a
trauma, everything or whatever, not then

596
00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:37.480
I think that in the churches it
would be good if there was something like

597
00:58:37.480 --> 00:58:40.800
a kind of triage. When a
newly converted person arrives, let' s

598
00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:45.280
see what backpack this person brings,
where it comes from, because if not,

599
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:50.159
if you notice, I know we' re drifting, but there are

600
00:58:50.199 --> 00:58:54.519
people who have been in the Church
for years and years and carry the same

601
00:58:54.519 --> 00:58:57.920
backpack. Yes, ma' am, because maybe it hasn' t been

602
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.920
figured out, not what it is
you' re carrying. And I'

603
00:59:01.039 --> 00:59:07.239
m telling you this because I have
psychologist friends who have told me that many

604
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:13.800
times it comes to someone with a
series of problems and they start throwing and

605
00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:16.920
it' s a poorly crafted duel. When they were little, Grandma died,

606
00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:20.280
they pulled her out of the way. She never saw Granny again,

607
00:59:20.800 --> 00:59:22.880
no one said anything to her,
she took away in silence and was traumatized.

608
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:28.039
Or what used to be said was
that the children were not taken to

609
00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:31.039
the cemetery or taken away because the
children had to be taken out. In

610
00:59:31.079 --> 00:59:35.320
the midst of all this, I
believe that children have to live naturally.

611
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:40.639
What' s happening. Death is
part of life and as soon as you

612
00:59:40.719 --> 00:59:45.199
see it more naturally, you will
be able to live it. And tomorrow,

613
00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:52.559
if you have to go through a
duel, you' ll be more

614
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:54.960
prepared. No doubt. It'
s certainly not very interesting what you'

615
00:59:54.960 --> 00:59:57.559
re saying. It' s true
that you don' t. And the

616
00:59:57.639 --> 01:00:02.440
workshop comes to the hair for it' s a formidable tool. We are

617
01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:07.880
seeing, for example, suicide assistance
also to accompany this is another chapter we

618
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:12.639
want to help people. We'
ve got it in our DNA. It

619
01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:19.639
is our vocation to accompany people in
their pain and to know how to give

620
01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:23.800
them some tools or answers in addition
to the intelligent company. I said no

621
01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:29.320
and I was thinking. Finally,
already on the subject of everything we'

622
01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:32.840
ve talked about during the pandemic,
people who couldn' t process the mourning

623
01:00:32.920 --> 01:00:37.800
because they lost their loved ones and
couldn' t even see them. But

624
01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:44.719
a lot, there were hundreds and
thousands of people who could not say goodbye

625
01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:46.639
to their spouse, their son,
their grandfather, their mother, their father.

626
01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:51.079
Well, a tragedy that was a
national tragedy, really, totally.

627
01:00:52.920 --> 01:00:58.400
In fact, I don' t
know if you know Julio that I believe

628
01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:00.800
in grief relief groups. I until
then my grief relief groups were face-

629
01:01:01.159 --> 01:01:07.239
to- face. In my ibiza
a beautiful living room with my candles aromatized

630
01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:10.960
that if the music is in the
soft. That is, because it was

631
01:01:12.199 --> 01:01:16.360
very important to me, because I
continue to give it to the embrace of

632
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:21.599
the Presence. But all of a
sudden, this is over. Then we

633
01:01:21.679 --> 01:01:28.119
had to look for an alternative and
I began to receive requests for help to

634
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:34.159
the duel from places that you can
least imagine, from the Argentine pampa,

635
01:01:35.159 --> 01:01:37.920
from Bolivia, from Lima, from
different places in the world. People were

636
01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:45.840
asking me, but you guys have
groups online and I said no. I

637
01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:49.199
' d say no. Me.
I don' t know how it'

638
01:01:49.239 --> 01:01:52.880
s done until I learned when I
started seeing so much demand. And that

639
01:01:52.920 --> 01:01:57.679
' s what I found. A
lot of people who maybe, because they

640
01:01:58.159 --> 01:02:02.639
haven' t seen the family in
months. Suddenly they tell him the father,

641
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:07.760
they take him to the hospital,
they die in the hospital. They

642
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:16.159
don' t even know if the
boxes that gave them mortuary were their relative

643
01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:21.679
inside or the covid thing It was
terrible, terrible, terrible, because,

644
01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:30.719
as you well said, performing the
grieving tasks is fundamental and one of them

645
01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:36.679
is the ceremonies. The ceremonies help
to put a point and end, the

646
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:40.440
encounter with relatives, with friends,
to bury the person who has died,

647
01:02:40.599 --> 01:02:45.920
to fire them to receive the hugs
of one and the other. Sure,

648
01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:51.079
when does this go away? When
this disappears, of course people stay?

649
01:02:51.960 --> 01:02:57.880
It was very painful. But then
they started creating groups. He came out

650
01:02:57.920 --> 01:03:00.239
of the tzoom so people could see
each other, even if it was through

651
01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:07.719
the screen, they could create some
sort of farewell ceremony. But, thank

652
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:10.400
God, that' s already happened. But we keep the zum that'

653
01:03:10.519 --> 01:03:14.199
s wonderful. Yes, yes,
yes and good And by the way,

654
01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:19.159
on the 29th of April we go
in addition to our listeners, on the

655
01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:23.639
page of the Evangelical Alliance entered the
ueblant and there are all the details.

656
01:03:23.679 --> 01:03:28.760
Also, on my radio wave page, on the page of the Spanish Evangelical

657
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:34.039
Alliance, you see all the details
of the day. That how to access

658
01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:39.280
and everything accurate and understand is very
simple. You' ll have to fill

659
01:03:39.320 --> 01:03:42.880
out a form and it' s
already there. Then on the 29th,

660
01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:45.800
which is a Saturday, we will
connect at five o' clock in the

661
01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:49.440
afternoon and then we will tell a
little bit how to create this group.

662
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:52.519
Then there will be a round table. It' s very interesting. The

663
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:57.360
truth is that the other one we
did the previous one had a lot,

664
01:03:57.960 --> 01:04:00.440
very good acceptance. There were a
lot of people connected. And good for

665
01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:04.960
what they tell us, because then
they hang in the Evangelical Alliance, they

666
01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:12.400
hang articles. And I think it' s a way, like you said,

667
01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:17.239
of learning about the things we'
re needing. Not without a doubt.

668
01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:21.840
No doubt listen, Gina, it' s been a great pleasure to

669
01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:27.360
be with you again. I also
remember being good at many experiences we have

670
01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:32.920
experienced. Radio you are a radio
woman of the medium too, but the

671
01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:36.840
year that you were in Barcelona,
already with the program and well, with

672
01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:43.639
two programs also very singular, very
relaxed. Uh, yeah, I missed

673
01:04:43.639 --> 01:04:46.360
you so much when you left that
well, I had a good time.

674
01:04:46.840 --> 01:04:50.679
Thanks for giving me this window,
this opportunity, because I had a great

675
01:04:50.679 --> 01:04:54.719
time. You remember what Julio was
called. Yeah, well, one is

676
01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:59.559
saying goodbye and the other is good. The show you were doing was this

677
01:04:59.679 --> 01:05:01.960
one I can' t believe.
I can' t believe it. That

678
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:06.280
' s true, but besides,
it was very original things that were being

679
01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:12.599
dealt with. It was the idea, not to rescue things that happen in

680
01:05:12.599 --> 01:05:15.880
the world you say. I can' t believe people put their faith maybe

681
01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:20.480
in bottles of bottled water that I
know is going to do, I don

682
01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:24.280
' t remember anymore, but the
truth is I had a good time,

683
01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:30.239
all right, all right. You
have an extraordinary station and there we go

684
01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:34.559
well, as I send you a
very affectionate hug and a greeting towards July

685
01:05:34.679 --> 01:05:40.880
and at any moment we can see
ourselves until soon gins, but until soon

686
01:05:40.880 --> 01:06:05.719
chao chao. Thank God, I
can, too. The greatest pain occurs

687
01:06:08.719 --> 01:06:18.440
when the most we want the pain
or the greatest comes to us as a

688
01:06:18.599 --> 01:06:29.760
blow to the heart without warning today
that we are no longer there, today

689
01:06:29.920 --> 01:06:35.599
that I have this pain and feel
a great void and I can not fill

690
01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:45.159
today that is no longer this only
remains in the moments that gives the lived

691
01:06:45.159 --> 01:06:53.000
to travel. He never dies when
he leaves, he just dies You just

692
01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:59.000
want to forget. Now you'
re everywhere you' re part of my

693
01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:09.159
life. From where you are and
to heal my wounds, never die who

694
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:16.400
goes only die you want to forget? Today I feel you everywhere, in

695
01:07:16.519 --> 01:07:23.960
a gasta, in a burning flame
you are my angel you wink at me.

696
01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:42.440
Never dies who leaves love never ends. Grievous pain can sustain us and

697
01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:51.840
you are not reminding anyone of the
greatest pain. Only time takes it away,

698
01:07:53.159 --> 01:08:02.639
although a moment today that is no
longer having this pain and being great

699
01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:13.159
emptiness, I cannot fill today that
it is no longer only left in the

700
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:24.000
moments that give the lived rough age. Who ever dies, who just dies,

701
01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:30.920
who forgets? Now you are everywhere
pathetic beings of my life, from

702
01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:44.279
where you are dry, my wounds, never dies, that you leave only

703
01:08:44.399 --> 01:08:50.760
dies what you forget today saying everywhere
in a mestá in a burning flame you

704
01:08:50.880 --> 01:09:04.239
are my angel you guide me.
Never die who goes love, never,

705
01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:15.319
nothing, Never finish my project study
in the United States and teach them how

706
01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:19.439
to play football They are really Emilio
and Raúl and one of them has schizophrenia,

707
01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:23.640
but their dreams, like those of
anyone else, have no limits.

708
01:09:23.960 --> 01:09:27.560
Let' s not put them on
us. Integration is always the best response

709
01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:30.239
for the social inclusion of people with
mental health problems, Ministry of Health,

710
01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:34.399
Social Services of Equality, Government of
Spain. I' m up to it.

711
01:09:34.520 --> 01:09:39.279
I' ve got two sorroco left
They won' t sneeze at the

712
01:09:39.279 --> 01:09:40.640
bartender I don' t panic between
the containers. We can have a new

713
01:09:40.960 --> 01:09:44.039
life or the cereal house you'
re right. We can be useful and

714
01:09:44.119 --> 01:09:45.720
do not recycle with forty plastic bottles. If you make a lining for the

715
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:50.279
or libri say yes and this stem
we will do. What a quaqui bike

716
01:09:50.359 --> 01:09:55.119
and give a new life to the
containers. Put them in their container and

717
01:09:55.159 --> 01:10:00.640
take care of the environment. How
much to give a new life packaging recycles

718
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:05.800
San Marcos and COHENMBS communities. Never
leave me alone in the bathtub or places

719
01:10:05.920 --> 01:10:10.439
with water. Don' t let
them emit luis fingers on a plug.

720
01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:13.640
Don' t leave me at the
age of an open window. I told

721
01:10:13.680 --> 01:10:18.199
to my tosic substances, to micamientos, you already let me swallow the small

722
01:10:18.279 --> 01:10:23.640
pieces of toys. If you neglect
your eyes, you can be dangerous to

723
01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:26.680
your children. Don' t neglect
to avoid accidents. For what you want

724
01:10:26.760 --> 01:10:34.239
most Ministry of Health and I consume
a government of Spain or you travel on

725
01:10:34.359 --> 01:10:49.680
the train of life and we have
arrived as well as the one that does

726
01:10:50.319 --> 01:10:56.560
intentionally want the thing to Dr Rock' s medical consultation. There are the

727
01:10:56.600 --> 01:11:01.560
different allergies and their possible treatments for
them. The other rock is going to

728
01:11:01.560 --> 01:11:09.960
help us a little bit figure out
the primary reasons for allergies. Come on,

729
01:11:13.319 --> 01:11:18.920
Dr Rocca, you wanted a friend
Hi, Julio. Allergies are expected.

730
01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:26.640
There is a certain expectation that they
may be somewhat of a source of

731
01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:30.840
anger. Right. The truth is, we' re already seeing and treating

732
01:11:30.840 --> 01:11:35.600
patients. They are consulted for this
reason, because, for example, an

733
01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:41.720
allergy to our listeners is a reaction
of our immune system. Those who suffer

734
01:11:42.479 --> 01:11:46.800
from it toward something that does not
bother most other people, but those who

735
01:11:46.880 --> 01:11:50.920
have allergies are often sensitive to more
than one thing. For example, the

736
01:11:50.920 --> 01:11:56.159
substances that usually cause reactions are pollen, dust removals, mold spores, animal

737
01:11:56.199 --> 01:12:02.520
dandruff, certain foods, insect bites, medicines that can also cause serious allergies.

738
01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:17.920
The truth is our immune system,
of course this cannot be predicted to

739
01:12:17.960 --> 01:12:25.479
have a true allergy at any time. The truth is that it is not

740
01:12:25.560 --> 01:12:30.239
a question that, as doctors ask
ourselves very often, it is not why

741
01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:35.039
in recent decades we have seen so
dramatically increase the number of allergic to see

742
01:12:35.119 --> 01:12:41.319
shame, there always were, but
not in the volume in which we have

743
01:12:41.439 --> 01:12:46.760
been living and searched and searched and
there are some answers. We know that,

744
01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:54.279
apart from the existence of all these
allergens, dandruff, animals, mites

745
01:12:54.319 --> 01:13:00.399
that are in our rooms, our
beds, our sofas, in addition to

746
01:13:00.399 --> 01:13:08.560
the pollens, there must be something
else that is the real cause for some

747
01:13:08.600 --> 01:13:15.479
people to develop an energy that others
do not develop. And some answers have

748
01:13:15.520 --> 01:13:20.720
been shown. One of them is
that it seems that there are molecules in

749
01:13:20.760 --> 01:13:30.680
the air in suspension coming from the
combustion of the engines tene and those substances,

750
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:36.159
because they are going to terarmamunitarian,
in such a way that we have

751
01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:41.680
greater ease to develop an allergy,
a legia always has to be there a

752
01:13:41.720 --> 01:13:45.000
protein, a protein that is strange
in our organism. And when I come

753
01:13:45.039 --> 01:13:50.000
into contact with this protein, then
there' s a reaction. But it

754
01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:56.880
is not a moderate reaction, but
a tremendously exaggerated relationship. It can even

755
01:13:56.920 --> 01:14:00.279
become dependent on intensity. It can
be such. In fact, unfortunately,

756
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:05.239
I do not know if you will
remember from a few years ago here in

757
01:14:05.239 --> 01:14:10.680
the Port of Barcelona, that a
ship loaded with soy arrived. Yes,

758
01:14:10.760 --> 01:14:15.439
and it did not happen was tremendous, because there was, indeed, a

759
01:14:16.479 --> 01:14:23.239
tremendous problem the leaves, not of
the elements also frequent. As for his

760
01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:29.159
polvito, it is that looses that
it can cause, because great poems of

761
01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:32.920
allergy. But here, let'
s say, in our area, in

762
01:14:33.039 --> 01:14:38.640
our territory, we have two large
groups that is that of the sacks and

763
01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:43.199
that is not springtime, it is
not related to seasonality, but we are

764
01:14:43.279 --> 01:14:48.119
seeing all year round and that of
the pollens, which is so, it

765
01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:55.119
is seasonal and that is now at
its peak and surely we have it for

766
01:14:55.319 --> 01:15:00.119
a long time or just, so
you used to comment on the great amount

767
01:15:00.199 --> 01:15:05.000
of rain and also the tons and
tons that are in suspension of pollens in

768
01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:10.560
the atmosphere. For example, what
you have said about diesel bro uncle for

769
01:15:10.600 --> 01:15:15.920
engines ten is already being warned and, in fact, there are already big

770
01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:20.319
brands, not only that they are
decreasing, but that they are stopping making

771
01:15:21.039 --> 01:15:26.600
engines ten l That is, it
is expected that in order to remember which

772
01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:33.800
year no longer exists, tenel cars
are no longer manufactured, everything is gasoline,

773
01:15:34.479 --> 01:15:41.239
pure. It' s not like
we' re turning our planet into

774
01:15:41.359 --> 01:15:46.960
some kind of latrine. The polluted
seas. Plastics are everywhere, even in

775
01:15:46.960 --> 01:15:54.960
the pantas of marines, in the
atmosphere molecules, well, some are natural

776
01:15:54.960 --> 01:15:58.600
and have to be there because it
is their place, and there is a

777
01:15:58.800 --> 01:16:03.199
purpose. We are the pollens,
but then the men add there a lofadal

778
01:16:03.359 --> 01:16:13.039
of strange molecules because of fossil fuels
and other substances. Some of them are

779
01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:18.560
perhaps less concentrated and, therefore,
perhaps less motivated, but others are not,

780
01:16:19.039 --> 01:16:25.920
and one of them sees the products
that eliminate the combustion of gazo engines.

781
01:16:27.079 --> 01:16:30.079
S So, this is no longer
a problem that is known now.

782
01:16:30.119 --> 01:16:33.279
We have been in the past for
years, and we know whether to get

783
01:16:33.760 --> 01:16:40.840
into chemistry, the chemical route,
because to say that this is a problem

784
01:16:41.039 --> 01:16:45.159
that has been known for years and
that we had to give a solution and

785
01:16:45.159 --> 01:16:48.640
finally goodbye. Thank you, because
it seems that the top ten, ten

786
01:16:48.680 --> 01:16:57.560
have their days numbered and that this
we suppose could improve. It should also

787
01:16:57.640 --> 01:17:02.439
improve the volume of allergic people and
other respiratory problems that we find all year

788
01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:10.560
round, because not only will combustion
generate a harmful contamination that will cause gers,

789
01:17:10.760 --> 01:17:14.640
but it will generate a contamination that
will cause multitude and multitude of respiratory

790
01:17:14.680 --> 01:17:25.760
pathologies. Because of this contamination,
respiratory allergies hope, especially allergies that have

791
01:17:26.119 --> 01:17:33.239
to do with asthma. This is
delicate, because there are cases that can

792
01:17:33.239 --> 01:17:42.479
become highly sensitive and seriously endanger people' s health. With the asthma issue.

793
01:17:43.479 --> 01:17:48.840
There are people who suffer to a
superlative degree. Yes, and also

794
01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:53.920
that is to say that there are
cases in which they are more serious,

795
01:17:54.399 --> 01:18:00.720
because there are people who good at
coming into contact with an allergen, will

796
01:18:00.880 --> 01:18:05.840
segregate greater volume of mucus, block, there will be basis of sneezing respiratory

797
01:18:05.880 --> 01:18:13.800
ditty. But there' s a
kind of percentage of patients that are for

798
01:18:14.319 --> 01:18:16.600
me, the believers and the most
at risk. But what they do is

799
01:18:16.640 --> 01:18:21.479
a bronchial spasm, the bronque,
when it comes into contact with the geno,

800
01:18:23.239 --> 01:18:28.119
contracts that part of hypertrophy muscles contract
preventing the passage of air and clear

801
01:18:28.600 --> 01:18:33.960
that of tremendous consequences. Well,
even as you said quite rightly they can

802
01:18:34.159 --> 01:18:36.880
carry and, by deracially we'
ve lived it. They can lead the

803
01:18:36.960 --> 01:18:42.880
patient to death in case the doctor
is not there at that time, it

804
01:18:42.920 --> 01:18:49.520
takes time to consult, sometimes the
family' s little success has to be

805
01:18:49.520 --> 01:18:54.239
moved. How to react, especially
if it occurs in rural areas now early

806
01:18:54.239 --> 01:18:58.840
in the morning, that is,
complications. There' s no emergency service

807
01:18:58.920 --> 01:19:02.079
24 hours, there' s no
hospital nearby. Well, unfortunately we have

808
01:19:02.600 --> 01:19:10.479
experienced this situation and the patient has
become critical. Or it' s for

809
01:19:10.479 --> 01:19:12.920
terminal. It' s very serious. Very serious. Sure, sure,

810
01:19:13.720 --> 01:19:20.960
sure, treatments and therapies. In
addition to nasal sprays, antistamines and anti

811
01:19:21.680 --> 01:19:28.640
- allergic injections, there is also
the issue of vaccines to assess the possibilities

812
01:19:28.479 --> 01:19:35.520
of detecting the causative agent. Not
true. The issue of vaccines. The

813
01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:44.439
vaccine you already know that means that
the treatment is punctured, an intermuscular sucultary

814
01:19:44.479 --> 01:19:50.239
whatever, but punctured and this can
sometimes reinforce new problems. You have to

815
01:19:50.279 --> 01:19:57.439
be very careful. Some of us
prefer, I unquestionably prefer oral v has

816
01:19:57.520 --> 01:20:01.720
the great advantage that the organism will
take what it needs and what the latrine

817
01:20:01.840 --> 01:20:06.119
will not discard and we will have
far fewer problems, much less complications.

818
01:20:08.800 --> 01:20:16.359
These laboratories care about and make study, research and market vaccines. And this

819
01:20:16.479 --> 01:20:23.079
kind of pathway we call vaccines,
we call it isotherapy. It would be

820
01:20:23.199 --> 01:20:27.359
the same thing that causes the disease. We use it as a medicine,

821
01:20:27.560 --> 01:20:31.920
because there are very prestigious laboratories and
that their products really work wonderfully well.

822
01:20:33.159 --> 01:20:41.800
Even some very frequent allergies already have
classified small bottles, type vejiguita of plastic,

823
01:20:42.079 --> 01:20:46.479
because, with the monodoses of this
vaccine from sotherapy to decensitize the patient.

824
01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:54.680
The problem we also live in is
that, as we are immersed in

825
01:20:54.800 --> 01:21:00.239
this valley of pollution, because sometimes
the patient heals an allergy and develops a

826
01:21:00.319 --> 01:21:05.479
new one. This I can see
with relative frequency. When a patient has

827
01:21:05.560 --> 01:21:10.840
given in a treatment, it has
been positive, beneficial, the patient has

828
01:21:11.239 --> 01:21:15.439
improved dramatically, it has even healed
and after x years it reappears with alertness,

829
01:21:15.600 --> 01:21:20.760
because already one suspects and many times
when we repeat the tests of allergy,

830
01:21:21.119 --> 01:21:26.720
we discover, therefore, a new
cause. And the truth is that

831
01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:30.960
this is quite, quite common with
pollens, with food, it' s

832
01:21:31.399 --> 01:21:35.039
quite complex. It' s a
very exciting subject, but it' s

833
01:21:35.039 --> 01:21:41.199
quite complex. Yes, it has
a very particular complexity. The other rock

834
01:21:41.199 --> 01:21:45.600
before we say goodbye. There'
s an allergy. There' s an

835
01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:48.359
allergy, an answer to this big
question. There' s an allergy.

836
01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:54.039
In recent times, it wasn'
t that much. I' m saying

837
01:21:54.159 --> 01:21:57.479
not to remember them in the past
either. In the past there were things,

838
01:21:58.319 --> 01:22:02.239
for that is good, that we
have improved a lot and that are

839
01:22:02.239 --> 01:22:04.720
and better that they have disappeared.
But there are other things that weren'

840
01:22:04.920 --> 01:22:08.640
t and there was something in the
environment in the past. I' m

841
01:22:08.680 --> 01:22:15.800
not talking about repression of religion,
which there was also a lot of it,

842
01:22:15.399 --> 01:22:24.359
but there was a sense of respect. Let us call the figure of

843
01:22:24.359 --> 01:22:28.279
that God who somehow did not know
where he was at all right, but

844
01:22:28.439 --> 01:22:33.479
who had created us. We'
ve become allergic. Our society has become

845
01:22:33.560 --> 01:22:40.920
allergic, authentically allergic, to contact
with God, to the search for that

846
01:22:40.920 --> 01:22:45.159
God that we so much need truth, the truth that you are bringing all

847
01:22:45.319 --> 01:22:51.399
reason to chastity, to which society
has a good part. He seems to

848
01:22:51.399 --> 01:22:58.039
have an alert. One of them
is the word God. Another allergy is

849
01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:00.880
the word Church, to which one
speaks of Church, God, Gospel,

850
01:23:01.920 --> 01:23:13.039
Evangelical, Christianity, etcetera. Well, we see that there is in some

851
01:23:13.039 --> 01:23:16.199
of our neighbors, in the people
with whom we relate some kind of tartullidos.

852
01:23:17.119 --> 01:23:24.279
There is an allergy red because,
well, what happens is that when

853
01:23:24.640 --> 01:23:29.760
we analyze and when we speak in
depth and there are people who are very

854
01:23:29.840 --> 01:23:35.000
that, not and good, because
they have an attitude to life, to

855
01:23:35.079 --> 01:23:39.640
the universe. On the other hand, you have others that not others,

856
01:23:40.720 --> 01:23:51.479
because you will really reason some of
them because being at an intermediate point diagnosticism

857
01:23:51.600 --> 01:23:56.600
of difficulty in accepting, but there
are some that do. So, when

858
01:23:56.680 --> 01:23:59.920
we go to the cause, no, I' ve wondered good, why.

859
01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:06.560
Why people, traditionally human beings.
Since prehistory we know that the human

860
01:24:06.920 --> 01:24:13.680
being has sought God through religion.
Religion, for it has that purpose.

861
01:24:14.640 --> 01:24:17.039
So when the human being has sought
God, especially in Christialism, we know

862
01:24:17.039 --> 01:24:24.520
that God comes to pass, but
in all cultures, all over the world,

863
01:24:24.880 --> 01:24:28.479
from history, we see that there
is this search for the spiritual and

864
01:24:28.600 --> 01:24:32.960
suddenly it is like that, because
you general said it very acesarously, a

865
01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:39.760
kind of allergy And of course,
then one has to realize the ones of

866
01:24:39.800 --> 01:24:43.840
the one who lives. The sequence
is the one we live with. It

867
01:24:43.920 --> 01:24:48.960
is a society that has in Jewish
Christian principles, especially Christians. Now the

868
01:24:49.079 --> 01:24:53.000
Jewish, it' s there at
the root, but we don' t

869
01:24:53.079 --> 01:24:55.800
see it so much anymore, we
don' t perceive it so much anymore,

870
01:24:55.800 --> 01:24:59.520
but the Christian. And then people
often have no problems with God,

871
01:24:59.720 --> 01:25:04.279
but with Christians. There' s
one that brings her in, and there

872
01:25:04.279 --> 01:25:10.520
' s the secret. Then I
always tell people we share. The faith

873
01:25:11.159 --> 01:25:14.680
is that the Christian must live,
live in the city, he must try

874
01:25:14.760 --> 01:25:21.439
to be of an extraordinarily formal conduct, because that pleases God and, besides

875
01:25:21.439 --> 01:25:27.119
that, it is light to the
world. Look at yesterday, at the

876
01:25:27.159 --> 01:25:31.479
Bible study, at the Church,
with the brothers of Martorel we were commenting

877
01:25:31.640 --> 01:25:36.359
on the well- known texts of
you are the salt of the world.

878
01:25:38.039 --> 01:25:41.920
And the Lord Jesus does not say
you have the salt of the world,

879
01:25:42.479 --> 01:25:46.800
but you are. And then he
says he also speaks of the light and

880
01:25:46.880 --> 01:25:50.479
also says that he is the light
of the world and that we are the

881
01:25:50.560 --> 01:25:57.279
light of the world. There is
there a reflection of its holiness and its

882
01:25:57.359 --> 01:26:01.960
characteristics. But sometimes we' ve
wanted Jew we do it so poorly?

883
01:26:03.760 --> 01:26:10.199
We do it so poorly that then
people do not see in many Christians or

884
01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:16.199
in many pseudo- Christians what they
should see. Then we blame God for

885
01:26:16.239 --> 01:26:21.520
everything. God is like this since
Adam and Eve sinned. You know,

886
01:26:21.680 --> 01:26:27.159
Adam blamed the woman, the woman
of the foot, and the serpent had

887
01:26:27.239 --> 01:26:32.359
to shut up. He was guilty, but the jeds were guilty. And

888
01:26:32.399 --> 01:26:35.680
that' s where we all go. Many times we blame God for our

889
01:26:35.720 --> 01:26:41.039
misfortunes, for our insanity, for
the misfortunes for which we are responsible and

890
01:26:41.159 --> 01:26:46.600
mothered the name of God. People
curse God' s name when it goes

891
01:26:46.680 --> 01:26:50.000
wrong, but they don' t
remember God when it' s right.

892
01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:57.840
It' s a society full of
contractions, so I think we can heal

893
01:26:57.840 --> 01:27:04.760
from that ally. Goodbye is the
allergy to Christianity and it is knowing him

894
01:27:04.760 --> 01:27:11.640
personally. God can be known personally. Moreover, although he is the highest

895
01:27:11.680 --> 01:27:15.479
character in history, neither kings nor
anyone is taller than God, but God

896
01:27:15.239 --> 01:27:20.039
is in the position of humility,
in the stubbornness of Christ and is ready

897
01:27:20.079 --> 01:27:25.720
to receive us all right now,
each of us, and he has the

898
01:27:25.720 --> 01:27:30.520
answer. He is the answer,
because small saves of the equation of this

899
01:27:30.600 --> 01:27:33.720
world to the person of Christ,
the one who remains nothing. This is

900
01:27:33.800 --> 01:27:43.000
devastation, moral devastation, devastation in
every way. And well, he is

901
01:27:43.039 --> 01:27:49.359
the Creator God, he knows our
nature and he has so much compassion for

902
01:27:50.079 --> 01:27:56.000
us that we still often feel his
caress, in the midst of our ignorance,

903
01:27:56.279 --> 01:27:59.640
in the midst of our evil to
do, in the midst of our

904
01:27:59.800 --> 01:28:03.279
failures, that we all dare already
myself, but he and, being there

905
01:28:03.399 --> 01:28:10.279
to leave like the eternal rock of
the centuries that we can trust, because

906
01:28:10.319 --> 01:28:16.760
he has overcome, we will overcome
so it is, dear friend, I

907
01:28:16.840 --> 01:28:24.520
believe it is a masterful conclusion to
take into account that counterpoint of something that

908
01:28:24.640 --> 01:28:30.640
seems also vital to the health of
the soul and to the destiny of the

909
01:28:30.680 --> 01:28:31.319
human being here and now, because
purgatory does not exist. This, yes,

910
01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:34.600
which is a true invention, is
an invention of the Middle Ages,

911
01:28:34.960 --> 01:28:39.720
nonexistent in the Bible. Don'
t say hello to that or out of

912
01:28:39.720 --> 01:28:45.560
amazement. Well Dr Roca, dear
friend, we are satisfied with what you

913
01:28:45.600 --> 01:28:50.920
have told us to take into account
some things yes and, above all to

914
01:28:50.960 --> 01:28:56.399
go to consult if necessary, welcome. Thank you well, thank you,

915
01:28:56.720 --> 01:29:50.479
a hug that gramidista so goodbye the
train of life you when you find the

916
01:29:50.800 --> 01:30:29.119
meshes with his sword for you borders, you contiguously beat flagbantar to tusca,

917
01:30:30.840 --> 01:30:57.399
you conduct faint with his spread for
your grari france psychotista you will conquer flag

918
01:30:57.399 --> 01:31:26.159
bantara. Not without pain, no
cattle. Everything costs a value for which

919
01:31:26.279 --> 01:31:36.119
you have to fight, even though
you stumble that it would matter to win,

920
01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:46.279
if it was so easy, to
fight the goal and at the end

921
01:31:47.800 --> 01:31:54.760
that you will know more if I
don' t know, sometimes you have

922
01:31:54.760 --> 01:32:00.000
to be bumping in order to be
able. Thank you and reach a little

923
01:32:00.359 --> 01:32:15.199
maturity, because there would be no
way to know how to twirl what will

924
01:32:15.199 --> 01:32:25.279
come. The pain in your times
can be so cruel but God won'

925
01:32:25.520 --> 01:32:48.439
t let you stay ah any longer. You don' t want to go

926
01:32:48.760 --> 01:33:02.359
through difficulty, but sometimes it boils
to awaken the gift inside it goes and

927
01:33:02.600 --> 01:33:11.119
get out of the comfort that you
will read the place and to the goal

928
01:33:11.119 --> 01:33:18.359
confirm it to advance. If you
are Sometimes you have to be shaken up

929
01:33:18.680 --> 01:33:33.800
to move, grow and reach a
little more fearlessness, because glory would be

930
01:33:34.159 --> 01:33:46.760
a way to handle what will happen
The pain can be so hard and so

931
01:33:47.880 --> 01:34:00.520
cruel, but God won' t
let us stay there any longer in power

932
01:34:00.520 --> 01:34:19.479
that we can bear. If you
can create, anything is possible. If

933
01:34:19.680 --> 01:34:26.079
you can create, confess that it
is, even if you can' t

934
01:34:26.079 --> 01:34:32.720
see. If you can believe,
no matter what miracle it is it has

935
01:34:32.720 --> 01:34:41.319
to do according to its will it
is to make clear victory, not fear.

936
01:34:49.039 --> 01:35:00.399
If you can believe this is what
Luis, Juanjo' s friend,

937
01:35:00.760 --> 01:35:08.680
said to prevent him from abusing his
partner. When there' s abuse in

938
01:35:08.680 --> 01:35:12.119
a couple, it' s not
just couple stuff. Don' t allow

939
01:35:12.199 --> 01:35:15.159
gender- based violence. Call zero
sixteen There' s an exit from the

940
01:35:15.319 --> 01:35:19.560
Ministry of Health, Social Services and
Equality. Government of Spain prohibited tweeting while

941
01:35:19.600 --> 01:35:23.199
with your I have forbidden chatting with
your scepter and villa you do in eulogy

942
01:35:23.279 --> 01:35:25.640
of the dangers are so obvious that
it is not a matter of prohibition.

943
01:35:25.960 --> 01:35:29.800
It' s a matter of common
sense, because the smarter our phones are,

944
01:35:30.199 --> 01:35:32.760
the stupider the deaths they cause behind
the wheel. Ninety- nine percent

945
01:35:32.840 --> 01:35:36.880
of your attention isn' t enough. Directorate- General for Traffic, Ministry

946
01:35:36.960 --> 01:35:42.840
of the Interior, Government of Spain. If you have drinking problems and you

947
01:35:42.920 --> 01:35:46.039
see that you just can' t
solve them, maybe we can help you.

948
01:35:47.840 --> 01:35:53.479
Groups of anonymous alcoholics are the solution
for millions of people around the world.

949
01:35:54.560 --> 01:35:58.880
Call us on the phone nine,
three, three, seventeen, seventy

950
01:35:59.039 --> 01:36:15.880
- seven, seventy- seven,
the train of life, an exciting journey

951
01:36:15.000 --> 01:37:03.720
along the paths of the heart,
an unforgettable trip at the rhythm of trems.

952
01:37:13.319 --> 01:37:17.720
Well, ladies and gentlemen, now, in a few moments we are

953
01:37:18.199 --> 01:37:25.159
already in zoom communication, but also
audio for all our listeners of the modulated

954
01:37:25.279 --> 01:37:30.159
frequency in the different Spanish cities.
Think that every week more than a hundred

955
01:37:30.359 --> 01:37:36.279
major cities in Spain tune in to
the train of life. Then I am

956
01:37:36.359 --> 01:37:41.800
sometimes in a city when I go
from here, I imitate it since Thursdays

957
01:37:41.920 --> 01:37:45.560
leaves our hangar the train of life
in march and on Friday Saturday I sometimes

958
01:37:45.640 --> 01:37:49.960
travel to different Spanish cities and go
around, I go with some friend or

959
01:37:50.000 --> 01:37:58.760
some pastor who is taking me here
and listen to the program. I tell

960
01:37:58.840 --> 01:38:01.960
you well, I' m glad
that you can hear it and I hope

961
01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:06.399
that the interviews are helpful and that
they help, that they are. The

962
01:38:06.479 --> 01:38:13.079
purpose is for them to be a
social help service as well as the one

963
01:38:13.079 --> 01:38:16.880
we have talked about. Well then, ladies and gentlemen, we already have

964
01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:25.039
our friend Alfonso closet there that we
are going to go in with him to

965
01:38:25.159 --> 01:38:29.359
talk about the topic of the apostolic
fathers, the first leaders of the church

966
01:38:29.479 --> 01:38:32.800
beyond the apostles who died. The
last living apostle was John, who died

967
01:38:32.880 --> 01:38:40.239
about ninety- eight, apparently for
dating. He died in Ephesus after having

968
01:38:40.359 --> 01:38:46.000
also had a captivity on the island
of Patmos. And, well, there

969
01:38:46.079 --> 01:38:50.680
are more things that are very interesting. We' re going to make some

970
01:38:50.720 --> 01:38:56.960
breaks because, obviously, the subject
is immense and I' m going to

971
01:38:57.039 --> 01:39:01.800
welcome my good friend, the doctor, also historian and writer, Alfonso Ropero

972
01:39:01.880 --> 01:39:06.279
good morning, Alfonso Hello, Good
morning, Well, Alfonso. We could

973
01:39:06.359 --> 01:39:13.039
talk about a thousand themes, but
the theme of parental patristics, what is

974
01:39:13.079 --> 01:39:17.560
patristic from the most popular point of
view to situate our listeners a little bit?

975
01:39:18.079 --> 01:39:25.119
What is the patristic one that has
to do with the origins? After

976
01:39:25.159 --> 01:39:29.479
the years of Jesus and the apostles
in the world, when they all disappear,

977
01:39:29.840 --> 01:39:35.479
they are the ones who continue the
work, the Christian work and how

978
01:39:35.560 --> 01:39:41.880
this would be defined. Yes,
patristic is a name given to an academic

979
01:39:42.119 --> 01:39:46.680
discipline that has at last the study
of the more of the Church. Istristics

980
01:39:46.800 --> 01:39:55.960
within certain seminaries, for it studies
or if it was important, the study

981
01:39:56.039 --> 01:40:00.680
of the church, understanding as the
Father of the Church, the successors of

982
01:40:00.800 --> 01:40:04.399
the apostles. Once they are dead, the cane, the so- called

983
01:40:04.479 --> 01:40:10.199
new testament, closes. But Christianity
continued. After the new will. Works

984
01:40:10.359 --> 01:40:15.760
continued to be written, including some
very famous ones that almost entered the canon,

985
01:40:16.279 --> 01:40:20.479
such as the Letters of Clement Romano
or the Shepherd of Hermas. That

986
01:40:20.560 --> 01:40:27.199
' s already part of that part
or falls into the category of patristics.

987
01:40:27.680 --> 01:40:33.399
That and then were the names as
well known as Jerome Agustín Gpona, for

988
01:40:33.479 --> 01:40:41.319
that is the subject given in certain
academies at that period, to the study

989
01:40:41.439 --> 01:40:45.720
not only of the life of his
men, but of his works. Yes,

990
01:40:45.880 --> 01:40:48.359
because of course the ge was,
for example, one of the writings,

991
01:40:48.920 --> 01:40:53.560
Pastor Armas, one of the most
popular of the first after the apostolic

992
01:40:53.600 --> 01:41:00.600
era. True, exactly if it
was the immediate writings. Let us say

993
01:41:00.800 --> 01:41:08.640
that patristics introduces us to what happened
in the church after the death of the

994
01:41:08.760 --> 01:41:13.680
apostles. He certainly didn' t
disappear. The church has already been on

995
01:41:13.720 --> 01:41:16.920
earth for two thousand years and,
moreover, interesting I know that in the

996
01:41:17.039 --> 01:41:25.560
evangelical world, although a fact that
is true, the reform was the first

997
01:41:26.279 --> 01:41:30.560
that already in the sixteenth century,
they put patristics as a subject in their

998
01:41:30.560 --> 01:41:34.920
studies, because sometimes it is thought
that patristics is also spoken of as patrology.

999
01:41:35.520 --> 01:41:40.680
It belongs to a rightful defect which
he believes is in the proper right

1000
01:41:40.680 --> 01:41:42.199
of the Catholic Church. But it' s not like that. Protestants,

1001
01:41:42.960 --> 01:41:46.520
Luther as well as Calvin and other
authors, including the Spanish evangelicals, such

1002
01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:53.640
as Salamuel Villa, in their books, as well as returning to the sources,

1003
01:41:54.119 --> 01:41:58.680
sought the Bible on the one hand, but also wanted this biblical teaching

1004
01:41:58.880 --> 01:42:00.760
to be confirmed by the ancient authors, the so- called Fathers of the

1005
01:42:00.760 --> 01:42:09.279
Church. So, the Protestants of
the sixteenth century, in order to say

1006
01:42:09.399 --> 01:42:14.239
give a certain character of seriousness to
what they bring of continuity of rupture.

1007
01:42:15.359 --> 01:42:19.439
They have They were the first to
create the professorship of patrology, that is,

1008
01:42:19.960 --> 01:42:26.399
of study of the parents to show
that they were rebels who were breaking

1009
01:42:26.520 --> 01:42:30.479
the Church. They simply continued what
they believed to be the best of the

1010
01:42:30.600 --> 01:42:36.199
Church in the Bible and in the
parents, the parents of the churches.

1011
01:42:39.279 --> 01:42:43.720
The characteristics, as you are saying, of the patristics of the initial Fathers

1012
01:42:43.800 --> 01:42:48.279
of the post- Apostolic Church who
pre- empt and defend Christian beliefs before

1013
01:42:48.359 --> 01:42:54.319
the pagan dogs of the time,
regard the faith as the only truth and

1014
01:42:54.439 --> 01:43:00.520
knowledge, above all other knowledge and
many more things that also have to do

1015
01:43:00.560 --> 01:43:03.880
with the philosophy of the time.
True, yes, it has to do

1016
01:43:03.960 --> 01:43:10.399
with philosophy and a fact for us
to understand about the Christian faith. We

1017
01:43:10.479 --> 01:43:15.880
have been Christians for many years and
we have a great legacy of a great

1018
01:43:15.880 --> 01:43:19.439
heritage. But there is a curious
fact that can guide us, and that

1019
01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:27.479
is that the Christian faith began as
a translation movement that I mean by this

1020
01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:30.680
and to the same, Lord Jesus
Christ, does not follow the Old Testament

1021
01:43:30.800 --> 01:43:34.520
to the letter. He clearly tells
the men and women of his day and,

1022
01:43:34.760 --> 01:43:41.239
above all, the doctors and the
scribes and the Pharisees. Have you

1023
01:43:41.239 --> 01:43:45.239
heard that it was told to our
fathers or elders, but I tell you

1024
01:43:45.359 --> 01:43:50.279
then he says have you heard of
the eye for an eye, tooth for

1025
01:43:50.279 --> 01:43:54.760
a tooth? I say amaze the
enemy who has your cheek to right and

1026
01:43:54.840 --> 01:43:58.239
puts you on the left or the
other way around. Then a rereading is

1027
01:43:58.399 --> 01:44:03.439
done. He after rhinestones the Old
Testament in the light of what he considers

1028
01:44:03.520 --> 01:44:08.560
to be the essence of God,
who is God love, since they had

1029
01:44:08.640 --> 01:44:13.600
derived that newer doctrine in Jesus Christ, God is love from the beginning.

1030
01:44:15.399 --> 01:44:20.920
But the Pharisees had concentrated on the
legislator God and had made a sort of

1031
01:44:21.079 --> 01:44:27.000
system of laws. I think there' s one. They codified six hundred,

1032
01:44:27.239 --> 01:44:31.760
and I do not know how many
laws they needed to be fulfilled to

1033
01:44:31.760 --> 01:44:38.199
please God and Jesus Christ, for
he understands that this is not the basis

1034
01:44:38.319 --> 01:44:40.760
of the law, and that is
why the law is summed up in only

1035
01:44:40.760 --> 01:44:45.319
two laws. In six hundred and
sixty- six thousand we go and say

1036
01:44:45.399 --> 01:44:48.960
that we love God and love the
next for him. Then to the translation

1037
01:44:49.039 --> 01:44:51.960
that he does And the Church will
do the same when he reads the Old

1038
01:44:53.079 --> 01:44:59.560
Testament and St Paul himself already begins
with that spiritual way of understanding it.

1039
01:45:00.439 --> 01:45:04.359
Sarah, Abraham' s wife,
is the symbol of the free Church and

1040
01:45:04.439 --> 01:45:10.279
to give that she was the slave
concubine. It was, for those who

1041
01:45:10.399 --> 01:45:15.840
live under the law mean that they
make a spiritual translation of the Old Testament.

1042
01:45:15.960 --> 01:45:17.640
They don' t take it to
the letter. They take it in

1043
01:45:17.720 --> 01:45:21.800
the light of the spirit of that
letter, in the light of Jesus'

1044
01:45:21.800 --> 01:45:29.800
teaching. And that' s why
the apostles. This translation is produced and

1045
01:45:30.159 --> 01:45:34.039
the parents of the church continue the
same translation. In fact, we'

1046
01:45:34.680 --> 01:45:39.520
re always translating. We say,
we read the Bible and the Bible says

1047
01:45:40.000 --> 01:45:45.239
well, the Bible says according to
our preconceptions. We' re always doing

1048
01:45:45.479 --> 01:45:50.439
a translation job. When we read
an ancient and modern text, then the

1049
01:45:50.560 --> 01:45:56.520
Father of the Church what they do
is complement or complete that process. And

1050
01:45:56.640 --> 01:46:02.800
they make comments to the Old Testament, such as that stila still make Bible

1051
01:46:02.960 --> 01:46:08.880
comments and apply those principles to the
Old Testament. Christo told them that Moseser

1052
01:46:09.239 --> 01:46:14.279
bears witness to me and that all
scripture is a witness to Christ. Then

1053
01:46:14.560 --> 01:46:17.560
they read the entire Old Testament in
the light of Christ. Do not read

1054
01:46:17.600 --> 01:46:20.920
it in the light of the law, do not read it in the light

1055
01:46:20.920 --> 01:46:25.479
of Israel, do not read it
in the light of the kingdom, but

1056
01:46:26.000 --> 01:46:28.920
of the kingdom which is manifested in
the person of Christ. And they do

1057
01:46:29.000 --> 01:46:33.560
the same with philosophy, as we
have commented because George, certainly, the

1058
01:46:34.399 --> 01:46:40.439
Church begins very soon in the Gentile
or pagan world, because first, because

1059
01:46:41.199 --> 01:46:45.600
the Jews persecute the early Christians,
like all to that fact of the apostles

1060
01:46:45.720 --> 01:46:50.720
were dispersed. Stephen goes to Samaria
and becomes Simon the Wizard, then to

1061
01:46:50.760 --> 01:46:56.399
the Antioch and St Paul makes trips
all over the world carrying the Gospel.

1062
01:46:56.800 --> 01:47:02.239
But it also happens historically geographically,
that the Jews rebel against Rome in the

1063
01:47:02.319 --> 01:47:10.159
sixties and are totally destroyed by General
Titus the Roman. And then they reveal

1064
01:47:10.159 --> 01:47:13.680
themselves again in the year one hundred
and thirty, and then, already when

1065
01:47:13.760 --> 01:47:21.479
the Jewish state is totally destroyed and
the Roman state even forbids the stay of

1066
01:47:21.600 --> 01:47:27.920
the Jews physically in Israel. And
it means that the Jewish world was no

1067
01:47:28.079 --> 01:47:33.880
longer the one who questioned the missionaries. Now it' s the pagan world

1068
01:47:35.359 --> 01:47:40.000
they' re missioning to. But
of course, the pagan world was followed

1069
01:47:40.159 --> 01:47:43.840
by another book, Not followed by
the Old Testament. They were followed by

1070
01:47:43.880 --> 01:47:46.960
their philosophers, by their myth,
by their gods. Then they also make

1071
01:47:47.079 --> 01:47:54.199
a translation of that philosophy and speak
of the ci just as Paul says that

1072
01:47:54.359 --> 01:47:57.760
the Jew is made to the Jew
and Greek to the Greek the parents of

1073
01:47:57.760 --> 01:48:01.600
the church, that period in which
Christianity becomes Greek to the Greek and shows

1074
01:48:01.720 --> 01:48:06.159
that true philosophy, which at that
time, philosophy was the way of life

1075
01:48:06.199 --> 01:48:12.640
that we still use today in colloquial
language. We do not understand philosophy as

1076
01:48:12.880 --> 01:48:16.279
an academic discipline. I have these
my philosophies directly my way of being,

1077
01:48:16.600 --> 01:48:19.960
this is my way of life.
This was how philosophy was understood in ancient

1078
01:48:20.079 --> 01:48:25.479
times and why the philosophy of the
Christian era was the most important and had

1079
01:48:25.520 --> 01:48:29.680
the most to do with the Spanish. Seneca, who was Spanish Cordobés,

1080
01:48:30.119 --> 01:48:32.720
was stoic philosophy, which was a
way to behave in life, in the

1081
01:48:33.000 --> 01:48:36.399
face of happiness, but also in
the face of misfortune. The death of

1082
01:48:36.439 --> 01:48:43.800
a loved one a return from destiny
that leads to ruin. How to deal

1083
01:48:43.840 --> 01:48:48.319
with those situations that can destroy a
person psychologically and physically That was called the

1084
01:48:48.359 --> 01:48:54.279
end, I said tor and today
we still say this we have to take

1085
01:48:54.439 --> 01:48:57.199
it with philosophies, take it patiently, see it prologue against. So Christianity

1086
01:48:57.199 --> 01:49:01.279
says this is Christianity, because Christianity, in this we all agree. It

1087
01:49:01.359 --> 01:49:04.880
is neither a religion nor a philosophy. It' s a way to be

1088
01:49:04.880 --> 01:49:09.399
a way, it' s a
way to follow, as he says Jesucrista

1089
01:49:09.399 --> 01:49:13.880
seizes from me. We are simply
apprentices of Jesus Christ in his way of

1090
01:49:13.880 --> 01:49:16.439
life. He didn' t even
bring theology. That we have done afterwards

1091
01:49:16.600 --> 01:49:21.960
and is correct, but good is
what Saint John showed us above all fourteen

1092
01:49:23.079 --> 01:49:26.760
six. I am the way,
the truth and the life. Then Christianity

1093
01:49:26.840 --> 01:49:32.359
translates these simple concepts of Jesus Christ, because he spoke with clarity for even

1094
01:49:32.720 --> 01:49:38.720
the uneducated child, because they translate
it into philosophical language and speak of our

1095
01:49:38.880 --> 01:49:44.600
philosophy, because of course this anibujo
has a philosophy of trust, that of

1096
01:49:44.720 --> 01:49:46.239
hope, that of faith, that
of love, charity, and mutual help,

1097
01:49:46.720 --> 01:49:53.159
for all that I develop. That' s the patristic period that comes

1098
01:49:53.239 --> 01:49:58.039
to our day. Of course,
when you talk about a kind of allergy

1099
01:49:58.199 --> 01:50:02.760
to philosophy, which is also not
good grecolatine or to which the mixture of

1100
01:50:02.880 --> 01:50:08.640
those terms is pure ignorance. People, perhaps the one who reads and the

1101
01:50:08.640 --> 01:50:12.279
day is there, know what they
are talking about and those who do not

1102
01:50:12.359 --> 01:50:15.079
hear it, because they misunderstand it. No. But, well, that

1103
01:50:15.119 --> 01:50:19.000
note is very important, very timely. One of the first parents or followers.

1104
01:50:20.439 --> 01:50:25.840
Polycarp of Smyrna, according to the
historical records of Irenaeus and Tertullian,

1105
01:50:26.079 --> 01:50:30.640
Polycarp of Smyrna, was apparently one
of the disciples of John the Apostle.

1106
01:50:31.840 --> 01:50:36.800
And, well, there is also
mercifully previously Irenaeus of León, Gregory of

1107
01:50:36.920 --> 01:50:43.479
Nisa, John Chrysostom and Well,
those are the first, basically between the

1108
01:50:43.560 --> 01:50:49.479
first century I II. Fundamentally we
move on to the 3rd century And it

1109
01:50:49.600 --> 01:50:57.479
is still clear here, we already
enter into other Eusebius of Caesaria, Tertullian,

1110
01:50:57.720 --> 01:51:00.199
Well, already the Great Augustine of
Hippo, who is a man who

1111
01:51:01.079 --> 01:51:06.199
marked school frame too and the conversion
of many of these men we know is

1112
01:51:06.319 --> 01:51:12.279
also very dramatic and very much like
St Augustine' s call but as holy

1113
01:51:12.279 --> 01:51:15.359
as you and as I, no
more and no less. But the truth

1114
01:51:15.399 --> 01:51:21.239
is interesting because these men who exercised
a social influence from the Christianization of the

1115
01:51:21.359 --> 01:51:30.840
Empire, an imposing social influence,
true, yes, yes, that aside,

1116
01:51:30.199 --> 01:51:34.880
because yes, Augustine is already the
one who really good of Augustine is

1117
01:51:35.560 --> 01:51:42.239
born already in a period where the
Church is legally recognized. Before St Augustine,

1118
01:51:42.279 --> 01:51:48.279
the Church was considered an illegal religion
because it did not worship the Emperor,

1119
01:51:48.520 --> 01:51:54.119
it did not burn incense in honour
of Rome. They believed that if

1120
01:51:54.239 --> 01:51:58.720
one lacked respect to the Emperor,
he also annoyed the gods and could come.

1121
01:51:58.760 --> 01:52:02.560
The misfortune, which more than one
of the most influential was Origen who

1122
01:52:02.680 --> 01:52:06.640
even the mother of one of the
emperors at the time that the Church was

1123
01:52:06.680 --> 01:52:13.399
persecuted, sought counsel from him,
sought the teaching. Origins, lived in

1124
01:52:13.439 --> 01:52:18.359
Alexandria, which was like the Athens
of the time that was in Egypt and

1125
01:52:18.560 --> 01:52:24.279
was there there there were a large
number of Christians and also Jews, that

1126
01:52:24.319 --> 01:52:30.960
there is there born the so-
called sectoakhinta, the Greek version of the

1127
01:52:31.039 --> 01:52:36.760
old Testament made by Jews, and
that the Church then used Christianity precisely because

1128
01:52:36.880 --> 01:52:41.640
of its way of being and living. He was very attracted to the attention

1129
01:52:41.840 --> 01:52:47.920
of the pagans, although they also
despised him, because he was a thriving

1130
01:52:48.520 --> 01:52:55.800
movement that grew, aroused envy and
suspicion, especially when someone wanted to speak

1131
01:52:56.000 --> 01:52:59.439
ill of someone, because they did
not know to investigate reality. And there

1132
01:52:59.479 --> 01:53:05.119
was talk that Christians participated in the
Holy Supper by eating the body of Christ

1133
01:53:05.119 --> 01:53:09.760
and drinking its blood and literally taking
it and saying that Christians were anthropophages,

1134
01:53:11.199 --> 01:53:15.800
that is, cannibals almost and that
a series of stories and legends were created

1135
01:53:15.920 --> 01:53:21.600
and that the clear people despised Christians, except when the people saw if these

1136
01:53:21.720 --> 01:53:28.880
people helped us, because in the
church they not only testified. It is

1137
01:53:28.960 --> 01:53:33.159
known that the Church of Rome,
where Paul was also the apostle Peter and

1138
01:53:33.239 --> 01:53:39.479
so many great Christians, she alone
kept three thousand poor of the city than

1139
01:53:39.560 --> 01:53:43.359
in which no one took care.
The Church of Rome. It is known

1140
01:53:43.479 --> 01:53:46.000
that there was a square of the
foundlings, that is, the unwanted children,

1141
01:53:47.319 --> 01:53:50.640
the way they had, apart from
abortion, the unwanted ones, were

1142
01:53:50.720 --> 01:53:56.319
taken from Java in that square.
There was like a kind of tumulus,

1143
01:53:56.600 --> 01:54:01.600
a high place and then the one
who wanted to go for those children either

1144
01:54:01.720 --> 01:54:08.720
adopted them or employed them as slaves
when they grew up or as gladiators Christians,

1145
01:54:09.239 --> 01:54:13.479
knowing the sad fate of those children
exposed there to what might happen to

1146
01:54:13.479 --> 01:54:16.560
them. They were picked up to
treat them as what they were or what

1147
01:54:16.640 --> 01:54:21.920
they had to be worthy people,
slaves or wrestlers in the circus. All

1148
01:54:23.000 --> 01:54:26.279
that. People saw it as humanity, but it cost time for all time.

1149
01:54:26.880 --> 01:54:31.199
But they had that certain prestige of
men who loved the world, but

1150
01:54:31.359 --> 01:54:35.000
at the same time believed it to
have been doctrine. It was dangerous and

1151
01:54:35.039 --> 01:54:40.680
tertullian that you mentioned that he is
the first Latin theologian, he created what

1152
01:54:40.680 --> 01:54:44.399
Hispanic. He was from North Africa, he was and they spoke Latin as

1153
01:54:44.520 --> 01:54:47.439
being the language from which Spanish comes, Spanish. Then he was a great

1154
01:54:47.520 --> 01:54:54.079
defender of the Christian faith in front
of the judges, saying to value things

1155
01:54:54.199 --> 01:55:00.479
as they were and disassemble slanders.
Bullies didn' t pay much attention to

1156
01:55:00.640 --> 01:55:01.880
him, though he didn' t
die a martyr. He tried, but

1157
01:55:02.039 --> 01:55:05.159
he didn' t. He was
a lawyer, but he defended the faith.

1158
01:55:05.319 --> 01:55:10.560
That is why it is a book
of apologetics or apology quicir defense,

1159
01:55:11.159 --> 01:55:15.159
defense Christianity. Yes, it was
interesting all that Christian struggle to gain a

1160
01:55:15.279 --> 01:55:20.560
worthy place. The one he deserved
was not a privilege, just as other

1161
01:55:20.680 --> 01:55:26.239
religions were tolerated. They were to
be tolerated and left at once the bull

1162
01:55:26.359 --> 01:55:30.880
that they were cannibals or that they
were going against the State, because it

1163
01:55:30.960 --> 01:55:35.000
was believed that, since they did
not burn incense in the altars, they

1164
01:55:35.000 --> 01:55:45.279
went against the State and I specifically
said tertullian. We prayed for the Emperor,

1165
01:55:45.800 --> 01:55:50.479
our best way of showing the fidelity
of emperors we pray to God for

1166
01:55:50.600 --> 01:55:56.000
the good of empire, we pray
to God for the peace of the Empire,

1167
01:55:56.479 --> 01:56:02.720
and that hurt them that they were
unjustly criticized, because Christianity always St

1168
01:56:02.920 --> 01:56:08.520
Paul says so in the Letter of
the Romans, that we honor the authorities

1169
01:56:08.600 --> 01:56:11.920
and those bi- Christianism has always
done so. And that' s what

1170
01:56:12.000 --> 01:56:14.159
' s beautiful about this period,
the period of the church fathers. It

1171
01:56:14.960 --> 01:56:21.560
is how they try to manifest Christianity, which is peace and love in a

1172
01:56:21.760 --> 01:56:28.279
hostile society. It took time,
but they got it. It is also

1173
01:56:28.479 --> 01:56:33.279
interesting to observe and because some magnify
ignorance as if this were the vow of

1174
01:56:33.800 --> 01:56:42.479
necessary humility, and it is with
Tertullian eusebius of Caesarean section of his ecclesiastical

1175
01:56:42.479 --> 01:56:47.319
history. Well, there' s
such an agustín of origin. Well,

1176
01:56:47.319 --> 01:56:53.920
and there the list that adds up
and continues even among them there are others

1177
01:56:54.079 --> 01:57:00.800
that are authentic apologists intellectuals, but
with a colossal intellectual formation. True,

1178
01:57:02.800 --> 01:57:13.239
they are. In one of the
earliest Christian intellectuals, it is Justino,

1179
01:57:13.920 --> 01:57:15.479
Justino, Justino Martís. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Of course, he

1180
01:57:15.720 --> 01:57:21.600
was a man who had been moving
in the philosophical schools of the time,

1181
01:57:21.960 --> 01:57:29.319
the stoic, the ticury and they
all read and knew well the aristotelian platoon.

1182
01:57:30.079 --> 01:57:33.079
But he came into contact with an
old man, a Christian elder,

1183
01:57:33.399 --> 01:57:35.439
and did not know at that time
that he was a Christian. But they

1184
01:57:35.560 --> 01:57:40.119
speak of the soul, they speak
of destiny in the afterlife, and what

1185
01:57:40.279 --> 01:57:43.479
that man said to him he saw. He agreed that he became interested in

1186
01:57:43.520 --> 01:57:46.039
the faith, became a Christian,
and not only became a Christian, but

1187
01:57:46.159 --> 01:57:53.840
paid with his ruin for his life. From there I could find a way

1188
01:57:53.920 --> 01:57:59.560
to save myself and give orchards to
sufer by saying no, but I believe,

1189
01:57:59.640 --> 01:58:02.119
but to that of respect I could
have looked for the tricks to save

1190
01:58:02.399 --> 01:58:06.920
the peronol life when they told him
to deny the Christian name, which was

1191
01:58:08.000 --> 01:58:12.520
the way the judges had to prove
that they were Christians, because a true

1192
01:58:12.560 --> 01:58:16.239
Christian did not deny his lord went
to the Church, but they were not

1193
01:58:16.239 --> 01:58:20.399
Christians, because they refused because they
were going to attend or because they received

1194
01:58:20.399 --> 01:58:27.159
help. The true Christian when faced
with that option of release, deaths for

1195
01:58:27.319 --> 01:58:30.399
they said if the renegade freedom of
my Christ prefers death. And that'

1196
01:58:31.119 --> 01:58:38.960
s what Justino did, and then
right away he saw a pantheon that in

1197
01:58:39.079 --> 01:58:42.359
the faraway would be the tainting of
the holster stain, because Justino had already

1198
01:58:42.359 --> 01:58:45.399
done it. In Rome he founded
a school of philosophy, but Christian philosophy,

1199
01:58:45.600 --> 01:58:49.039
what he said before and that at
that time philosophy and theology were almost

1200
01:58:49.119 --> 01:58:53.720
united, because it had to do
with life, the way of life.

1201
01:58:54.079 --> 01:58:57.840
Well, I' ll pantenum and
then it comes in graciously and then seeing

1202
01:58:57.840 --> 01:59:03.319
origins. They were three scholars and
at the same time attracted many people who

1203
01:59:03.439 --> 01:59:10.760
in the anguish of the world and
who did not see an answer in pagan

1204
01:59:10.920 --> 01:59:15.079
gods, in polytheism, in those
gods that sometimes he who has seen in

1205
01:59:15.159 --> 01:59:19.720
that it is seen in film odyssey, for gods who are jealous commit adultery

1206
01:59:19.800 --> 01:59:23.800
among themselves, because the truth was
that they were not exemplary. And the

1207
01:59:23.840 --> 01:59:27.159
Christian god, of course, had
nothing to do with it and they were

1208
01:59:27.239 --> 01:59:33.119
amazed by that Christian God that they
preached but at the same time it is

1209
01:59:33.960 --> 01:59:41.399
known that the same gracious one that
still persists his very thick books had a

1210
01:59:41.520 --> 01:59:44.199
tremendous culture of philosophy, of Aristotle' s platoon. Now, why Christians

1211
01:59:44.279 --> 01:59:50.000
in the evangelical world have suspicions or
sometimes feel a sort of repulsion or rejection

1212
01:59:50.560 --> 01:59:57.800
of philosophy. Because, of course, as in politics there are good politicians,

1213
01:59:58.159 --> 02:00:01.239
bad politicians and in theology there are
fabulous c and there are other Christians

1214
02:00:01.319 --> 02:00:05.680
who are not ashamed to call themselves
Christian philosophy. There was what Paul calls

1215
02:00:05.760 --> 02:00:11.479
false lanosis philosophy. Paul calls it
falsenoses, and Paul says it was these

1216
02:00:12.079 --> 02:00:17.079
people, the Greeks themselves criticized them. They were people who made philosophies to

1217
02:00:17.199 --> 02:00:23.479
make money, which was to win
lawsuits were because philosophy was linked to oratory

1218
02:00:23.640 --> 02:00:28.840
and in trials, because the one
who had the best oratory at the best

1219
02:00:28.880 --> 02:00:33.960
gold peak could win or lose the
case of his client. And there were

1220
02:00:34.000 --> 02:00:39.680
many philosophers who lived not looking for
the truth, but the way to make

1221
02:00:39.760 --> 02:00:45.880
the black or white, said to
use words or language to transmute or transform

1222
02:00:46.000 --> 02:00:53.439
the sense of things. And that' s what Christian critiques and it'

1223
02:00:53.520 --> 02:00:56.520
s called philosophy or whatever it is. But the Bible does not condemn true

1224
02:00:56.600 --> 02:01:04.279
philosophy, but that false philosophy that
they were traveling people who, let us

1225
02:01:04.399 --> 02:01:11.199
say, lived selling their knowledge,
but the true philosopher did not go around

1226
02:01:11.199 --> 02:01:16.920
selling his knowledge. To disguise the
lie. They had their schools and people

1227
02:01:17.039 --> 02:01:23.039
chose them because they saw in them
serious, honest, responsible people. And

1228
02:01:23.119 --> 02:01:29.359
so Christians also opened schools and received
many students because they saw in them that

1229
02:01:29.520 --> 02:01:34.359
seriousness and honesty that Paul says.
We can do nothing against the truth,

1230
02:01:34.600 --> 02:01:38.960
but with the truth. The Christian
has always gone with the truth of the

1231
02:01:39.079 --> 02:01:44.039
part and philosophy in his popular senses, love of truth, love of wisdom.

1232
02:01:45.319 --> 02:01:50.760
The opposite. That' s right, either I cheat or whatever we

1233
02:01:50.920 --> 02:01:53.920
call it, it' s interesting, it' s really recommendable. That

1234
02:01:54.039 --> 02:01:59.279
is why you have collegiate and directed
a series of patristics in clie and you

1235
02:01:59.560 --> 02:02:05.840
have also written some of those works
to us. Well, we wanted to

1236
02:02:06.600 --> 02:02:13.640
initiate the evangelical reader in this inheritance, because it is an inheritance the books

1237
02:02:13.760 --> 02:02:16.560
of the church fathers, and we
started with the first ones, who are

1238
02:02:16.640 --> 02:02:24.960
called apostolic fathers. The Apostolic Fathers
described them this way because they had known

1239
02:02:24.960 --> 02:02:29.880
some apostle, for example, you
mentioned him to Polycarp, they had known

1240
02:02:29.880 --> 02:02:36.800
John. Then they belong to the
Apostolic, Apostolic, Apostolic period. Friday

1241
02:02:36.840 --> 02:02:42.640
after they are already disciples of these
apostles, like this Tullian and as it

1242
02:02:42.760 --> 02:02:46.119
is the Itineus himself, he did
not know the apostles. Then we have

1243
02:02:46.239 --> 02:02:53.199
published to the Apostolic Fathers in a
volume also the works of mentioned Irenaeus,

1244
02:02:53.640 --> 02:02:58.359
Clement, Alexandria, Origen, Augustine, Tertullian, not all the complete works

1245
02:02:59.199 --> 02:03:05.279
are we could draw out hundred and
so many volumes. We got what we

1246
02:03:05.439 --> 02:03:12.000
first called him the best thing we' ve put in because it' s

1247
02:03:12.000 --> 02:03:14.800
the second edition. Thank God it
was exhausted, that is, it had

1248
02:03:14.880 --> 02:03:20.279
a good reception and we call essential
writings. Their essential writings are many more.

1249
02:03:21.000 --> 02:03:24.520
It doesn' t mean they'
re the best. They are the

1250
02:03:24.720 --> 02:03:30.359
most basic or what best introduces us
into your thinking. And, well,

1251
02:03:31.600 --> 02:03:39.000
I think there is a species today
that observes an interest in knowing these men,

1252
02:03:40.119 --> 02:03:43.039
because of course it is that if
not the Church is seen in a

1253
02:03:43.039 --> 02:03:47.119
problem. It seems that the Church
begins with us from which, from the

1254
02:03:47.159 --> 02:03:53.760
New Testament to the present Church,
there has been a vacuum. And that

1255
02:03:53.800 --> 02:03:58.039
is not possible, of course,
because Jesus Christ, in his resurrection said

1256
02:03:58.640 --> 02:04:02.479
I am with you every day until
the end of the world and every day

1257
02:04:02.680 --> 02:04:06.239
is century II. And so and
so, when he says that the Church

1258
02:04:06.359 --> 02:04:11.439
is founded on the rock, which
is Christ, which is to them the

1259
02:04:11.600 --> 02:04:15.159
rock of salvation, says the gates
of hell will not prevail against it.

1260
02:04:15.640 --> 02:04:20.319
If we think, as there are
many evangelicals who believe, that after the

1261
02:04:20.439 --> 02:04:26.119
death of the last of the apostles, the Church gave as a sort of

1262
02:04:26.239 --> 02:04:30.720
decay and apostasy, then Jesus Christ
fails his word. If we believe that

1263
02:04:30.840 --> 02:04:36.640
there has been an apostasy until Luther' s time or even us those thousand

1264
02:04:38.399 --> 02:04:42.680
years, Christ was not present or
was where he was, where is his

1265
02:04:42.720 --> 02:04:46.560
word that the gates of hell would
not prevail against the rock, for he

1266
02:04:46.640 --> 02:04:50.680
was there in that, he was
in Clemente, he was in origin,

1267
02:04:50.880 --> 02:04:55.960
he was in Tertullian and so many
foot believers have written nothing, but they

1268
02:04:56.039 --> 02:05:00.000
did something very beautiful. When Rome
falls, that is, when the Church

1269
02:05:00.000 --> 02:05:02.920
is already affected by the empire,
we have all heard of the barbarians of

1270
02:05:03.279 --> 02:05:09.199
cara, of the Huns, of
the eggs, of the same ones in

1271
02:05:09.279 --> 02:05:14.159
Spain that came the Visigoth odolus.
Then those people were people used to fighting

1272
02:05:14.800 --> 02:05:18.840
and their ideal was the combat and
Christianity that made against them for Christianity amazingly

1273
02:05:18.880 --> 02:05:27.359
domestic. Yes, great lords,
they came the first thing they were to

1274
02:05:28.079 --> 02:05:30.439
steal in the churches, because there
is the chalice that was used to take

1275
02:05:30.960 --> 02:05:35.680
it, the wine of representing the
blood of Christ was usually of clear gold

1276
02:05:35.760 --> 02:05:40.479
that we were valuable and they killed
or plundered. And yet, those men

1277
02:05:40.880 --> 02:05:44.560
or women who no longer remember his
name, who also died at the hands

1278
02:05:44.680 --> 02:05:48.800
of the invasions in the long run
conquered that empire and one of the most

1279
02:05:48.840 --> 02:05:54.880
violent peoples that Europe suffered were the
Vikings or what were called the men of

1280
02:05:54.960 --> 02:05:59.800
the North, who were razing came
to Spain, well, they arrived to

1281
02:05:59.800 --> 02:06:06.199
Seville, when the Guadalquivir Guadalquivir is
navigable and in small boat and there was

1282
02:06:06.279 --> 02:06:12.079
the Church managed to convert these men, whose gods of Odin, the tor

1283
02:06:12.119 --> 02:06:16.520
that make films of this today the
round with his hammer that kills a thousand

1284
02:06:16.560 --> 02:06:21.159
characters of a blow the Church or
those people of that time. I'

1285
02:06:21.279 --> 02:06:27.960
m talking about the year eight hundred
nine hundred managed to tame these peoples,

1286
02:06:28.319 --> 02:06:31.680
which was not easy to us in
the twentieth century And until we leave our

1287
02:06:31.720 --> 02:06:38.560
habits, even if we become Christians, we still maintain that St Paul calls

1288
02:06:38.720 --> 02:06:44.960
the old man, for they fought
a very strong old man, because he

1289
02:06:45.000 --> 02:06:46.560
was a very accustomed man to war. And Christianity is peace. Christianity is

1290
02:06:46.600 --> 02:06:50.960
concord, because all this was achieved
by the Church. Not we have been

1291
02:06:51.039 --> 02:06:56.279
getting him churches century after century.
I have said those examples, which are

1292
02:06:56.399 --> 02:07:01.359
the most dramatic, but it happened
throughout history. The human being has always

1293
02:07:01.439 --> 02:07:05.359
been violent to the idea is today
we have a war here on our pigs

1294
02:07:05.439 --> 02:07:11.279
and threaten us even with atomic bombs. At that time they were also always

1295
02:07:12.000 --> 02:07:15.399
warring and zero before reminds us of
the books of cavalry. The cavalry books

1296
02:07:15.479 --> 02:07:19.920
were novels, but they were Christian
novels. Sometimes we didn' t think

1297
02:07:19.920 --> 02:07:26.560
of that, because it was dealing
with those soldiers who did what we saw

1298
02:07:26.560 --> 02:07:31.119
on television there in Ukraine and other
countries, looting, torturing and raping.

1299
02:07:32.319 --> 02:07:38.600
And the ideal knight for Don Quixote, that the defense of women, the

1300
02:07:39.079 --> 02:07:44.399
defense of the Maiden and the keeping
of her word, the not stealing the

1301
02:07:44.520 --> 02:07:50.359
contentment of his good deeds, was
a way of civilizing those who lived as

1302
02:07:50.520 --> 02:07:56.079
mercenaries. And that was also a
church product. Then, it is very

1303
02:07:56.680 --> 02:08:01.000
nice to think if we follow the
word of God we are Christian, but

1304
02:08:01.119 --> 02:08:07.279
we have a past and a few
brothers, as the Letter to the Hebrews

1305
02:08:07.399 --> 02:08:13.760
says, for a cloud of witnesses
we can feel very proud of, because

1306
02:08:13.920 --> 02:08:18.000
they performed great miracles throughout history,
a miracle of conversions. Yes, magnificent

1307
02:08:18.039 --> 02:08:24.560
explanation Alfonso to put us in perspective, because I remember, perhaps in a

1308
02:08:24.680 --> 02:08:28.720
personal anecdote, when I became,
I could read bad at little, because

1309
02:08:30.159 --> 02:08:33.920
it was very sick and I went
very little to school from eight to twelve

1310
02:08:33.000 --> 02:08:37.800
years old, and I began to
read the new will and I remember them

1311
02:08:37.920 --> 02:08:45.199
and read it, I slowly read
it the back had black. And then

1312
02:08:45.800 --> 02:08:50.800
I loved myself already when I joined
the military at the age of sixteen,

1313
02:08:50.439 --> 02:08:56.000
at the age of twenty. I
wanted to join the culture late. Okay.

1314
02:08:56.000 --> 02:09:01.520
I made a whole process possible until
I was twenty- five years old

1315
02:09:01.600 --> 02:09:07.680
at the University, which was already
a sprint. But I began to read

1316
02:09:07.800 --> 02:09:13.000
from everything I read, everything to
the Ley, Mars, Lenina, Trowskia,

1317
02:09:13.560 --> 02:09:18.359
mause Toon, the authors, Saltrea, all those of the time Kamus,

1318
02:09:18.520 --> 02:09:24.840
all of Kiski, obviously, Nix, etcetera, etcetera. But I

1319
02:09:24.880 --> 02:09:30.319
began to read the history of Christianity
and my faith strengthened the first history of

1320
02:09:30.439 --> 02:09:33.960
Christianity. Then I read others.
When I read that, I was already

1321
02:09:35.039 --> 02:09:39.399
a fervent believer. I thank God, but I was greatly strengthened by knowing

1322
02:09:39.560 --> 02:09:45.319
the history of Christianity. He reaffirmed
to me to see continuity, as you

1323
02:09:45.319 --> 02:09:48.800
have said, from the first century, second, third, fourth, until

1324
02:09:50.000 --> 02:09:54.319
the first millennium, then until the
Protestant reformation and everything and to see the

1325
02:09:54.359 --> 02:09:56.560
variables that have existed in history.
I was strengthened and reaffirmed and I said

1326
02:09:56.640 --> 02:10:03.840
this church the gates of hell have
not prevailed against the church in 2,

1327
02:10:05.159 --> 02:10:07.960
000 years. And then you have
to know how to interpret the story.

1328
02:10:09.600 --> 02:10:13.399
So it' s true. I
highly recommend reading to the church parents.

1329
02:10:13.479 --> 02:10:20.399
Plus a lot of your thinking.
It illustrates us, enriches us time practices

1330
02:10:20.479 --> 02:10:26.840
that are some were of faith principles
so primary, but so genuine that you

1331
02:10:26.119 --> 02:10:33.479
say. Sometimes it is necessary to
return some of these things to be more

1332
02:10:33.479 --> 02:10:37.159
genuine, more direct, not mediated
by so many liturgies and that we Protestants

1333
02:10:37.199 --> 02:10:41.960
have also acquired them. Anyway,
but the truth is, it' s

1334
02:10:43.000 --> 02:10:46.640
very interesting. That' s why
the reference to Clie' s books is

1335
02:10:46.640 --> 02:10:50.439
very interesting. And we come to
the subject of heresies. Well, from

1336
02:10:50.520 --> 02:11:01.199
scripturalism, docentism, agnosticism, Montanism
and both adoptionism and archaeism. Well,

1337
02:11:01.239 --> 02:11:07.720
there are all Nicolaism, Martianism,
Modalism, Manichaeism or Donatism, etcetera.

1338
02:11:07.119 --> 02:11:13.640
Arianism, especially Arianism, very interesting, because Spain was arian for a time

1339
02:11:13.760 --> 02:11:18.239
with the Visigoths in power, who
succumbed to Christian culture, because they became.

1340
02:11:20.920 --> 02:11:24.520
That' s what you were saying, apolinarism, nestorianism, pelagianism,

1341
02:11:26.159 --> 02:11:33.720
the subject that is also very interesting
in monophysicism, etcetera, monothelism, etcetera,

1342
02:11:33.000 --> 02:11:39.399
etcetera. So there is to give
and give, but above all arianism.

1343
02:11:39.760 --> 02:11:43.760
Yes, that was a controversy that
was very much in battle for a

1344
02:11:43.840 --> 02:11:50.920
long time. True, it was
a hard battle in many years, because

1345
02:11:50.880 --> 02:11:58.000
Christianity proclaims itself as a monotheistic faith, a single God, but at the

1346
02:11:58.079 --> 02:12:03.039
same time that this God is a
father, a son and a holy spirit,

1347
02:12:03.600 --> 02:12:09.039
how that is clarified. The Arians
denied the trinity, the Orthodox for

1348
02:12:09.159 --> 02:12:15.640
calling it that or the great Church. Most believed without knowing is the explanation

1349
02:12:15.640 --> 02:12:20.760
that there is only one God who
is the father, but that Jesus Christ

1350
02:12:20.840 --> 02:12:26.239
was not only a superior man chosen
by the Father, distinguished with a second

1351
02:12:26.239 --> 02:12:31.279
God. He was God himself and
then the Holy Spirit also admitted. They

1352
02:12:31.359 --> 02:12:35.880
recognized him as a personality. It
was not an influence, it was a

1353
02:12:35.039 --> 02:12:41.680
living being that made the Church gain
strength, etcetera. And in those years

1354
02:12:41.800 --> 02:12:48.560
that they lacked terminology to get to
explain in a way, let' s

1355
02:12:48.640 --> 02:12:54.039
say logically the possibility of there being
a god and at the same time three

1356
02:12:54.720 --> 02:12:58.720
people and not for that being a
tritheism three gods that still continues to to

1357
02:12:58.720 --> 02:13:05.960
tory. Even in the evangelical world
there are churches called Jesus alone, that

1358
02:13:05.960 --> 02:13:09.479
is, they do not believe that
in the Trinity or sects such as Jehovah

1359
02:13:09.960 --> 02:13:13.359
’ s Witnesses or other groups that
deny trinity because they do not fit in

1360
02:13:13.399 --> 02:13:18.720
their heads. Well, the Church
had to deal with these heresies, not

1361
02:13:18.880 --> 02:13:26.039
only the Rianas, but many similar
ones, because the subject was difficult and

1362
02:13:26.159 --> 02:13:31.279
coming to a description I think simple, but very beautiful, and but they

1363
02:13:31.520 --> 02:13:35.520
had to resort to a language that
does not appear clear in the Bible.

1364
02:13:35.600 --> 02:13:39.640
The Bible mentions the father, son, and holy spirit, but without giving

1365
02:13:39.760 --> 02:13:45.720
it terms, Christianity had to resort
to Greek terms as substance, essence,

1366
02:13:46.640 --> 02:13:50.920
hypostasis, and a person who is
one God, but three different persons.

1367
02:13:52.720 --> 02:13:58.239
Substance or hypostasis is the same in
all three, but there is a distinction,

1368
02:13:58.399 --> 02:14:03.560
what is called a dynamic monotheism,
that God is communion relations, the

1369
02:14:05.199 --> 02:14:09.199
father in general, son, from
eternity beginning the son to be has always

1370
02:14:09.319 --> 02:14:16.880
been the son and the holy spirit
is also sent by both. Then you

1371
02:14:16.960 --> 02:14:22.520
have to develop these ideas of hypostasis, of what you call the same essence

1372
02:14:22.760 --> 02:14:26.399
homosis. And it wasn' t
easy. It wasn' t easy.

1373
02:14:26.800 --> 02:14:33.680
Many councils were needed. Today we
assume trinity almost by faith rarely a foot

1374
02:14:33.800 --> 02:14:39.960
believer in our church. Even pastors
can give very correct definitions, because it

1375
02:14:39.159 --> 02:14:43.079
is complicated, as I did not
study it myself in my pastor, in

1376
02:14:43.199 --> 02:14:48.079
whom I was baptized precisely at the
age that you became equal to seventeen,

1377
02:14:48.720 --> 02:14:52.479
I became converted and at eighteen I
was baptized because I had doubts whether to

1378
02:14:52.560 --> 02:14:56.039
be baptized into an adult or not. But whatever it was, that man

1379
02:14:56.159 --> 02:15:01.279
explained to me. Today I understand
it in its trinity ways in a heretical

1380
02:15:01.279 --> 02:15:05.600
way, they were as in what
is called fashionism. God, father.

1381
02:15:05.720 --> 02:15:07.960
It is the God who creates the
world, but the God who goes well

1382
02:15:09.960 --> 02:15:13.760
to redeem us then becomes a son, becomes flesh and redeems us, that

1383
02:15:13.760 --> 02:15:18.359
is, takes the form of the
son And as the now risen son lives

1384
02:15:18.399 --> 02:15:24.039
within us, the same God lives
as a spirit in three ways, in

1385
02:15:24.039 --> 02:15:26.920
three ways. That' s wrong. For him he convinced him because he

1386
02:15:28.000 --> 02:15:31.279
could not otherwise understand how to respect
the oneness of one God. But that

1387
02:15:31.359 --> 02:15:35.560
' s not the real way.
We' re not going to clear it

1388
02:15:35.560 --> 02:15:39.760
up today. But the idea is
this so basic essence, one God in

1389
02:15:39.880 --> 02:15:46.399
three different people and that people are
not manifestations, they are ways of being,

1390
02:15:46.680 --> 02:15:54.880
that shows us in front of that
Judaism in an isolated God it costs

1391
02:15:54.960 --> 02:15:58.279
us that it does not show that
God is community, that that involvement is

1392
02:15:58.359 --> 02:16:03.479
very important for human life, that
we are God relationship. It is also

1393
02:16:03.840 --> 02:16:07.840
a relationship or in front of the
Muslim, where it is also what is

1394
02:16:09.000 --> 02:16:15.800
called a strict monotheism, Christianity is
a dynamic monotheism. Strict monotheism is one

1395
02:16:15.840 --> 02:16:20.520
that knows only one will and there
is no dynamism in it. In the

1396
02:16:20.600 --> 02:16:26.720
Christian case, we believe that our
God is a god where there is inner

1397
02:16:26.880 --> 02:16:31.399
communion, and that makes many things
clear to us. God did not need

1398
02:16:31.520 --> 02:16:35.200
man to know what love is,
because he loved one another in that personal

1399
02:16:35.319 --> 02:16:39.159
variety, which is in him that
are mysteries that do not surpass his way

1400
02:16:39.280 --> 02:16:45.760
of understanding. This God creates us
by pure grace, because he wants to

1401
02:16:45.920 --> 02:16:50.559
love us, because he wants to
love him, not because he needs our

1402
02:16:50.559 --> 02:16:54.479
love, not because he needs our
praise, because he, like Jesus on

1403
02:16:56.719 --> 02:16:58.920
earth, says he is pleased with
the father and in the glory of the

1404
02:16:58.920 --> 02:17:01.760
father he always had. God has
always lived in a glory, communion,

1405
02:17:03.360 --> 02:17:11.280
communication, eternal love among himself.
It is the way that theology has to

1406
02:17:11.680 --> 02:17:16.440
explain that Christian God, which has
nothing to do with these extreme or strict

1407
02:17:16.559 --> 02:17:28.079
monotheisms, Judaism or Islamism. Although
Judaism was already opening up and speaking in

1408
02:17:28.399 --> 02:17:33.079
the book of proverbs of Wisdom,
through which God created the world. And

1409
02:17:33.200 --> 02:17:37.559
so the Gospel of John says that
Christ is wisdom, that is, the

1410
02:17:37.559 --> 02:17:41.399
wolf, is the verb by which
everything has been created. He was with

1411
02:17:41.559 --> 02:17:46.760
God and he was God. In
other words, there has been a process

1412
02:17:46.120 --> 02:17:50.840
of Christian doctrine. It did not
fall from heaven, it was a reflection

1413
02:17:52.000 --> 02:17:56.280
or, as I mentioned earlier,
it is a process of translation of the

1414
02:17:56.280 --> 02:18:00.799
experience of Christ. They experienced Christ
not only with a healer, not just

1415
02:18:00.879 --> 02:18:03.760
as a messiah. He was the
one who did it. Prophecies, not

1416
02:18:03.319 --> 02:18:09.840
just as a kind of privileged.
God experienced it as something that exceeded them.

1417
02:18:11.000 --> 02:18:13.600
And so they gave him the title
of the lord, the title given

1418
02:18:13.760 --> 02:18:18.280
to Jave in the LORD, in
the old Testament, because they believed that

1419
02:18:18.440 --> 02:18:24.879
he was in Christ, as he
will then say in the Pauline letters and

1420
02:18:24.959 --> 02:18:28.719
in him dwells the fullness of deity. They couldn' t explain it any

1421
02:18:28.719 --> 02:18:31.040
other way. He wasn' t
a man, he was God himself.

1422
02:18:31.799 --> 02:18:37.799
And that, of course. It
must be translated into a language that sheds

1423
02:18:37.879 --> 02:18:45.159
light on the apparent contradictions in which
language can resort to explain, to explain

1424
02:18:45.399 --> 02:18:50.319
the mystery of God. What an
interesting explanation, ladies and gentlemen, and

1425
02:18:50.399 --> 02:18:58.159
in such a didactic way for all
our listeners in the voice of Alfonso Ropero

1426
02:18:58.239 --> 02:19:01.040
and I tell you, obviously,
look at the Bible. The new testament

1427
02:19:01.040 --> 02:19:07.600
implicitly manifests the deity of Christ and
also explicitly, but very implicitly, conclusively,

1428
02:19:07.319 --> 02:19:16.440
as John' s theological preamble in
his first verses. In the beginning

1429
02:19:16.520 --> 02:19:18.399
it was the verb he was and
he was condid. The verb was God.

1430
02:19:20.440 --> 02:19:22.280
And then also, as Jo'
s witnesses have sometimes said, it

1431
02:19:22.319 --> 02:19:26.479
was a God no, because the
indeterminate article does not exist, that is,

1432
02:19:26.840 --> 02:19:31.159
it was a forgery of but many
more interesting things. And then he,

1433
02:19:31.239 --> 02:19:35.399
that fashionism, has also wanted to
fight the otri the ternity and so

1434
02:19:35.520 --> 02:19:39.040
many others. But it is true, and there I do see a point,

1435
02:19:39.239 --> 02:19:45.840
it is God' s revelation to
the believer the believer and we dare

1436
02:19:45.920 --> 02:19:50.280
to say it is an authentic revelation, to understand the incomprehensible by the grace

1437
02:19:50.399 --> 02:19:54.840
of God, that God is community, father, son and espe three distinct

1438
02:19:54.959 --> 02:19:58.239
persons and one true God, as
he says, the apostolic creed is a

1439
02:19:58.239 --> 02:20:01.799
definition more or less, as approximate
as possible. Right. That' s

1440
02:20:03.879 --> 02:20:07.079
right and here we have and I
want to recommend you look at this and

1441
02:20:07.360 --> 02:20:16.200
I have here before me all the
books that Alfonso wardrobe has collegiate are published

1442
02:20:16.319 --> 02:20:20.879
in clie and directly his own hand, the whole collection of apostolic fathers,

1443
02:20:20.879 --> 02:20:26.040
which is sensational. I recommend it
entirely from both Justin Martyr and so many

1444
02:20:26.159 --> 02:20:31.000
others who appear and the general the
first. And then, obviously, there

1445
02:20:31.040 --> 02:20:37.639
are also not only books as an
introduction to philosophy, philosophy and Christianity.

1446
02:20:37.959 --> 02:20:43.040
Speaking of this the apostolic fathers,
also stories of monothematics, of origins Augustine

1447
02:20:43.120 --> 02:20:48.959
Lipona, Tertullian, John Chrysostom and
so many others. Justin Martyr, who

1448
02:20:50.040 --> 02:20:56.360
we have talked about, but also
martyrs and persecutors is another fantastic book and

1449
02:20:56.479 --> 02:21:03.840
one of the last is history of
philosophy and theology connivance that has historically existed.

1450
02:21:05.239 --> 02:21:11.360
Don' t miss it. You
can take one or two of them

1451
02:21:11.520 --> 02:21:16.040
as much as you can and have
them in your private library. I don

1452
02:21:16.079 --> 02:21:18.799
' t know if you want to
make any notes. Alfonso about it.

1453
02:21:18.799 --> 02:21:22.799
It' s not right. Good. Yes, well, Alfonso, he

1454
02:21:22.040 --> 02:21:24.719
always likes to talk a lot about
himself, but I do because the truth

1455
02:21:26.639 --> 02:21:30.559
that has illustrated us and blessed us
a lot with his writings, because listen

1456
02:21:30.719 --> 02:21:37.479
we left him here because we would
follow him. But radio time also has

1457
02:21:37.559 --> 02:21:41.120
a limit and so does yours.
I thank you very much, Alfonso,

1458
02:21:41.319 --> 02:21:46.920
for your appearance on the train of
life again and we will speak again any

1459
02:21:46.000 --> 02:21:52.920
time you have a good time.
Thank you, but before you ended up

1460
02:21:52.920 --> 02:21:56.440
half lost, not talking about it, but about this booklet, which is

1461
02:21:56.559 --> 02:22:00.280
a little booklet that ormes what were
born in the fifties, as I count,

1462
02:22:00.360 --> 02:22:05.079
and six It has to remember was
the catechism that, necessarily in school

1463
02:22:05.079 --> 02:22:09.799
from the age of six we had
to know by heart. I was little,

1464
02:22:09.399 --> 02:22:13.360
but it' s literally I have
it because I' m a collector.

1465
02:22:13.879 --> 02:22:18.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but
we were small and clear it cost

1466
02:22:18.040 --> 02:22:20.520
us a lot and besides, it' s nice. There I see it

1467
02:22:20.639 --> 02:22:24.760
and at that time I didn'
t realize it, but there is Jesus

1468
02:22:24.840 --> 02:22:28.719
Christ and underneath children of all colors, there are all blacks here in this

1469
02:22:28.719 --> 02:22:31.239
part are two black whites, a
cobrizo. It will be beautiful the Christ

1470
02:22:31.360 --> 02:22:35.040
who had something to teach to all
children. And I mention it more than

1471
02:22:35.040 --> 02:22:39.120
anything, because it has been since
the sixties, as already of children we

1472
02:22:39.200 --> 02:22:43.559
were taught the apostolic creed. We' ve been talking about the church parents

1473
02:22:43.680 --> 02:22:46.959
and under it today I understand.
At that time I recited it because if

1474
02:22:48.040 --> 02:22:50.159
not the Master punished me, because
I did not explain, it had to

1475
02:22:50.159 --> 02:22:54.319
be memorized. Yes, yes,
I create an almighty father uncle, creator

1476
02:22:54.440 --> 02:22:56.719
of the earth' s heaven.
We believe Jesus Christ, that only son,

1477
02:22:58.280 --> 02:23:01.760
our lord and then follow the scripture, I believe in the Holy Spirit

1478
02:23:01.760 --> 02:23:03.159
and so on. But of course, this creed is very simple. It

1479
02:23:03.239 --> 02:23:07.639
was for the children, but we
all remember and have ever been to the

1480
02:23:07.719 --> 02:23:13.559
Catholic Church that they also recite after
this so simple so that we realize the

1481
02:23:13.680 --> 02:23:16.559
evolution, the idea, the trinity, the so- called constantinopolitan Nicene creed,

1482
02:23:18.440 --> 02:23:24.879
that is, the creed of Nicaea. If you notice one important thing,

1483
02:23:24.840 --> 02:23:28.600
if you see here more or less, in this column, it is

1484
02:23:28.680 --> 02:23:33.639
the apostolic creed, let us say
the primitive creed and in this column,

1485
02:23:33.040 --> 02:23:35.959
which is much broader, it is
the creed of Nicaea. And there you

1486
02:23:37.040 --> 02:23:39.600
can see that they have already passed
between one and another almost three hundred years.

1487
02:23:41.200 --> 02:23:43.239
The first says I believe in God
the Father the second to clear,

1488
02:23:45.440 --> 02:23:48.760
I believe in one God, because
there and some accused Christianity that believed among

1489
02:23:48.799 --> 02:23:54.719
the gods they are clear, they
believe one God father, almighty, creator

1490
02:23:54.840 --> 02:23:58.319
of heaven and earth of all things
visible and invisible is worth that we have

1491
02:23:58.440 --> 02:24:03.760
no doubt. The first creed said
because these were cretes, which were recited

1492
02:24:03.319 --> 02:24:07.879
to those who were to be baptized. This you baptize in this faith and

1493
02:24:07.920 --> 02:24:11.040
they had to recite from memory.
That' s why atheism taught him by

1494
02:24:11.040 --> 02:24:15.399
heart. It is secret, as
if he was a Christian who admitted that,

1495
02:24:15.879 --> 02:24:16.760
but they could only explain it to
God the Father, for that is

1496
02:24:16.760 --> 02:24:22.200
it. Then they make it clear
that this God is a God only says

1497
02:24:22.200 --> 02:24:24.399
so I believe in Jesus Christ nothing
more. But then he adds the creed.

1498
02:24:24.719 --> 02:24:28.639
Here is a long sentence, but
the way to read, because Julius

1499
02:24:28.639 --> 02:24:33.479
also knows it from memory, I
believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, only

1500
02:24:33.559 --> 02:24:39.600
son of God, born of the
Father before all the centuries, God,

1501
02:24:39.520 --> 02:24:45.200
of God light of light, true
God, true begotten, not created of

1502
02:24:45.879 --> 02:24:50.440
the same nature of the Father by
whom all was made that by us,

1503
02:24:50.559 --> 02:24:56.120
men, and by our salvation under
heaven that left here are already all theology

1504
02:24:56.239 --> 02:25:00.719
and the same in the Holy Spirit, says, I believe in the Holy

1505
02:25:00.799 --> 02:25:03.520
Spirit And there they ended already here, does not say. I believe in

1506
02:25:03.600 --> 02:25:09.000
the Holy Spirit, Lord and giver
of life that comes from the father and

1507
02:25:09.000 --> 02:25:13.520
son, that with the father and
son receives the same worship and glory and

1508
02:25:13.600 --> 02:25:18.079
that spoke by the prophets here And
it is very nice to keep in mind

1509
02:25:18.319 --> 02:25:22.040
how the logs is a development,
it is a process and that sometimes I

1510
02:25:22.239 --> 02:25:26.479
myself as young. This I recited
because until I was seventeen years old I

1511
02:25:26.600 --> 02:25:28.959
became, for until I was fourteen
years old, but until I was fourteen

1512
02:25:30.040 --> 02:25:33.360
I went to church because I liked
the Catholic Church. And this we had

1513
02:25:33.479 --> 02:25:37.520
to recite every Sunday and they'
re still in the subconscious. But it

1514
02:25:37.040 --> 02:25:41.479
’ s nice to see that process
that you can’ t think about,

1515
02:25:41.680 --> 02:25:45.000
as already reading the Bible they have
plenty for your spiritual life. But to

1516
02:25:45.079 --> 02:25:50.440
understand faith in depth we have to
study a little bit, not advance on

1517
02:25:50.559 --> 02:25:54.840
the subject of theology with people who
are able, so that we take advantage

1518
02:25:54.920 --> 02:26:01.719
of all the wealth and do not
fall into heresies or that flutists who are

1519
02:26:01.719 --> 02:26:03.760
saying look. I have here a
truth that you don' t know because

1520
02:26:03.840 --> 02:26:07.399
your Church has deceived you and I
don' t know in groups and estates

1521
02:26:07.440 --> 02:26:11.879
what there are. No, then
good that we see how the Church has

1522
02:26:11.920 --> 02:26:16.719
always had, in every age,
has been specifying the terms to the principles

1523
02:26:16.840 --> 02:26:18.879
worth with the cred that of children. But now, as Paul says,

1524
02:26:20.120 --> 02:26:24.120
there are moments to drink milk,
but there is another time, as a

1525
02:26:24.239 --> 02:26:28.399
Christian, that we must already eat
solid life. He came to all who

1526
02:26:28.520 --> 02:26:33.360
I am not gain as Christians,
who are already solid people, who are

1527
02:26:33.440 --> 02:26:35.000
well fed so that he will do
better in life, in everything, in

1528
02:26:35.000 --> 02:26:37.879
all his relationships, not only in
the mind, but in his way of

1529
02:26:37.959 --> 02:26:43.680
treating those around him. That'
s how it is, my friend.

1530
02:26:43.799 --> 02:26:48.719
Thank you for this point. In
addition, a review an example very very

1531
02:26:48.879 --> 02:26:52.440
very very graphic, because, for
example, in the Creed Niceno is thinking

1532
02:26:52.719 --> 02:26:58.000
I good that Athanasius in the fourth
century, just already does that he had

1533
02:26:58.159 --> 02:27:03.479
tried several times, but unsuccessfully.
But finally Tarasius' s thesis is imposed

1534
02:27:05.120 --> 02:27:11.000
on claiming the divinity of Jesus Christ. And well, because widespread Christianity had

1535
02:27:11.079 --> 02:27:18.280
adopted this heresy, it was not
that it minimized the person of Jesus Christ.

1536
02:27:18.840 --> 02:27:22.760
So the thing is, it'
s interesting, it' s very

1537
02:27:22.760 --> 02:27:26.520
interesting. And then see about the
creeds, me or the catechism. Yes,

1538
02:27:26.680 --> 02:27:31.440
the truth is that there were things
that were interesting and now contrasting them

1539
02:27:31.559 --> 02:27:35.520
strikes us very much. But well, thank God we have all those writings

1540
02:27:35.639 --> 02:27:41.879
that help us, because nothing once
again, Alfonso, dear friend, infinite

1541
02:27:41.879 --> 02:27:46.840
graces and until the next I send
you a hug. Thank you, goodbye

1542
02:27:46.920 --> 02:27:58.159
Alfonso Wow. Well, ladies and
gentlemen, we' re in a hurry.

1543
02:27:58.479 --> 02:28:05.760
But how good to fight Alfonso wardrobe
historian and writer, prolific, besides,

1544
02:28:05.120 --> 02:28:13.920
very good writer and then doctor also
in theology and history. And the

1545
02:28:15.000 --> 02:28:20.479
truth is that it places us,
gives us those glimpses of history, because

1546
02:28:20.600 --> 02:28:26.159
nothing more and nothing less. We
have reached the final conclusion. I remind

1547
02:28:26.440 --> 02:28:31.559
you that e- mail from the
train of life. If you want to

1548
02:28:31.639 --> 02:28:37.319
write to me to suggest that I
talk about anything, it' s Julio

1549
02:28:37.360 --> 02:28:41.040
Pérez Arroba the train of life.
Period. It' s Julio Pérez Arroba,

1550
02:28:41.559 --> 02:28:48.840
the train of life, point that' s where you can write me

1551
02:28:48.840 --> 02:28:52.319
directly and I' ll go forward. We are already practically the week of

1552
02:28:52.479 --> 02:28:58.559
the beginning of April, April,
May June and the 10th of June the

1553
02:28:58.760 --> 02:29:05.479
National Call for Prayer of all the
evangelical churches of the country, of the

1554
02:29:05.600 --> 02:29:13.319
State in its seventeen autonomies, is
called. We are called to pray for

1555
02:29:13.479 --> 02:29:16.040
our country, for Spain. We
pray for this country. We pray that

1556
02:29:16.200 --> 02:29:24.040
God will bless this country. There
are some specific proposals and for God to

1557
02:29:24.200 --> 02:29:30.360
bless our cities, bless local governments
by helping them with wisdom, grace,

1558
02:29:30.760 --> 02:29:35.600
there are still open doors and freedom
to proclaim Jesus' message and also that

1559
02:29:35.719 --> 02:29:41.920
our rulers be practical equity, in
democratic equity and also in justice and remember

1560
02:29:43.799 --> 02:29:52.959
Saturday, June 10, in different
cities. The calls are for marches,

1561
02:29:52.159 --> 02:29:58.040
points, and prayer meetings, for
there we will be God through the direction

1562
02:29:58.079 --> 02:30:03.959
also of his national coordinator, Samuel
Vázquez, and we will all be aware.

1563
02:30:05.639 --> 02:30:07.120
For today, nothing more and nothing
less has spoken to them a good

1564
02:30:07.120 --> 02:30:30.440
friend, Julio Pérez. Until the
next Chao. Evangelical churches are a place

1565
02:30:30.840 --> 02:30:37.879
of peace and friendship. You can
freely attend the nearest evangelical church in your

1566
02:30:37.959 --> 02:30:41.440
neighborhood or your population. You'
ll be very welcome.