1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,640 murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together 6 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:28,519 with Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a 7 00:00:28,559 --> 00:00:32,479 researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,799 media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:51,039 in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to My Never Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly 10 00:00:51,119 --> 00:00:54,719 and I'm Bill Thomas. We're gonna go ahead and kick off this edition of 11 00:00:54,759 --> 00:00:58,960 True Crime Holiday Gift Guide with the discussion about Christmas music. As mister Thomas 12 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,359 suggested, Bill, have you been listening to Christmas music? I'm easing into 13 00:01:03,399 --> 00:01:06,319 it now. Of course, we find ourselves a week before Christmas. Now 14 00:01:06,359 --> 00:01:11,359 I've been listening. This was recorded a few weeks ago where I transitioned into 15 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:17,400 Christmas music by playing George Winston's December, which is holiday adjacent, as you 16 00:01:17,719 --> 00:01:22,359 like to say, holiday adjacent. There we go. I've been playing Trans 17 00:01:22,359 --> 00:01:26,439 Siberian Orchestra because that is the only bit of Christmas music that I can stand 18 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,879 after having worked many years in retail throughout many a hallacious Christmas season. So 19 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:37,200 the only thing I can stand really is Trans Siberian Orchestra's Carol of the Bells 20 00:01:37,239 --> 00:01:40,640 and that sort of thing Christmas. Youve, Sirievo, that I will listen 21 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,480 to in your era of working retail, and I also worked retail, but 22 00:01:44,519 --> 00:01:47,439 it was many decades ago. I was going to say it was a long 23 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,359 time ago. Hah. Now to give you an idea how far back it 24 00:01:51,439 --> 00:01:55,359 goes, I would be working in retail. Source you want to talk about 25 00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:00,680 annoying. There was a Christmas tape. It was one hour long. It 26 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:06,319 played the same songs in order. Yeah, so there would be these were 27 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:12,360 a tape cartridge machine. Oh my gosh. So there would be Snoopy's Christmas 28 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,400 followed by a Little Drummer Boy, followed by and these are all the Perry 29 00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:19,919 Como versions. Just things that your mom and dad would have loved and then 30 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,000 there'd be an audible click and then it would play the same song in the 31 00:02:24,199 --> 00:02:29,280 same order. Nope. So you have to think about this from the perspective 32 00:02:29,479 --> 00:02:32,919 of the people that work in the retail store. Now, they are there, 33 00:02:34,199 --> 00:02:38,400 let's say eight maybe ten hours per day, especially during the holidays. 34 00:02:38,759 --> 00:02:40,960 The rest of us who go into the store, this is back when you 35 00:02:42,039 --> 00:02:44,960 used to go into retail stores, might be in and out in less than 36 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,039 an hour. So we hear have a hollow jolly Christmas and all the others. 37 00:02:50,159 --> 00:02:53,879 I say that song, but we're out of there and we're onto the 38 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,680 next store, at the mall or whatever. If you think about it from 39 00:02:57,719 --> 00:03:02,080 the perspective of the people who worked there, they played the same one hour 40 00:03:02,159 --> 00:03:09,240 tape for the entire holiday season. It was insane. You would think that 41 00:03:09,719 --> 00:03:17,319 there actually would be more strangulation murders of retail people, killing store managers who 42 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,800 refused to play anything except the one hour tape sent to them from headquarters. 43 00:03:23,479 --> 00:03:28,120 Oh jeez, No, It's been many years since I worked retail, and 44 00:03:28,599 --> 00:03:36,840 I still have these traumatic flashbacks to Mariah Carey and was she around singing all 45 00:03:36,879 --> 00:03:39,840 I want for Christmas is you? Yes, I grew up in the Mariah 46 00:03:39,919 --> 00:03:46,039 Carey era. She is one of the people that girls my age would go 47 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,520 to see in concert. So yes, Mariah Carey was very visible, and 48 00:03:50,639 --> 00:03:53,360 yes, all I went for Christmas Is You? One hundred percent was on 49 00:03:53,439 --> 00:04:00,159 repeat the whole entire Christmas season. I know this is a true crime podcast, 50 00:04:00,199 --> 00:04:02,120 and I know this might be inappropriate, but it just popped into my 51 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:09,319 head. Just shoot me now. I was in a retail store recently with 52 00:04:09,479 --> 00:04:12,759 the lovely Pamela. We were at an outlet mall, which I had been 53 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,800 to in quite a while. It was fun, but I knew there was 54 00:04:15,839 --> 00:04:19,879 no way We're going into half a dozen stores with Oliver into By the way, 55 00:04:20,199 --> 00:04:24,199 I knew that I was going to hear All I Want for Christmas Is 56 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,319 You at least twice in an afternoon, and of course there she was. 57 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,680 There's just no escaping her. There is no escaping Mariah Carey, and there 58 00:04:31,759 --> 00:04:35,240 is no escaping Wham's Last Christmas I Gave You My Heart. In fact, 59 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,279 on the internet now they call it Wammageddon. And can you go the whole 60 00:04:39,399 --> 00:04:45,279 entire Christmas season without hearing that song? And if you cannot, the day 61 00:04:45,319 --> 00:04:47,959 that you hear it is the day that you lose Wammageddon. I actually will 62 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:53,879 admit I'm still rather fond of that song. I am not fond of any 63 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,000 Okay, I will take that back, the one Christmas song that I actually 64 00:04:57,079 --> 00:05:00,160 really do like legitimately, and I'll sing along with it. I like anything 65 00:05:00,399 --> 00:05:03,959 from How the Grinch Stole Christmas. I love your a mean one, mister 66 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Grinch. I think it's hysterical. I can sing it from memory that I 67 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:13,240 will do over and over. My older brother, Richard is a big fan 68 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,040 of the Grinch, and that's one of his favorite songs, and he always 69 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:23,519 stands up for some reason and sings your amine when mister Grinch in his best. 70 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:28,160 Boris Karloff I was explaining to my film students today that Boris Karloff is 71 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,800 the voice of the Grinch, because we had seen Boris Karloff in The Mummy 72 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,720 and Bride of Frankenstein and they were blown away to make that connection. They 73 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:40,800 loved it. And it's funny not having seen those original Universal horror films in 74 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,399 a while. Boris Karloff doesn't talk that much in some of those roles, 75 00:05:44,439 --> 00:05:47,800 does he not? In Frankenstein or Bride of Frankenstein. He does a little 76 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,800 bit later in the movie when the monster develops his voice. He does talk 77 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:57,759 in The Mummy, so you can hear him as great voice. Yeah, 78 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,759 but yeah. When I mentioned to the kids, I was like, yeah, 79 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,079 Baris Karloff. They were blown away with that. It's actually really funny 80 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:09,519 my film kids don't have a good sense of time of when movies came out. 81 00:06:09,959 --> 00:06:14,120 We were watching mister Smith Goes to Washington last week, which is classic 82 00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:18,800 original version, original version, Yes, and the page boy in the Senate 83 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:25,000 who shows Jefferson Smith where his desk is was a little young actor by the 84 00:06:25,079 --> 00:06:30,800 name of Dickey Jones. And Dicky Jones went on to voice Pinocchio for Walt 85 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,560 Disney, and I asked the kids, I said, listen closely to this 86 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,879 kid's voice. Do you know who that is? And they were like no. 87 00:06:36,959 --> 00:06:40,319 I said, it was from a classic Disney movie. And they're naming 88 00:06:40,399 --> 00:06:47,240 things like Enchanted and Ratchuey and classic Disney movies. Those are fun Disney movies. 89 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,720 Because I'm trying to give them a sense of context, and they just 90 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,800 they don't have a good understanding of how old some of these films are. 91 00:06:54,879 --> 00:06:58,079 Like they didn't know that snow White came out in the nineteen thirties. I'm 92 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,240 like, here, I am just to give you a timeline of all of 93 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,800 this. But it's funny how many classic actors did voices for Disney. And 94 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,759 so I was pointing out in Stagecoach, the guy who drives the stage coach 95 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,279 buck Andy Devine, he was Friar Tuck in Robin Hood. I explain these 96 00:07:13,319 --> 00:07:15,560 to these kids, but a lot of them haven't seen the original cartoons, 97 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,839 so they don't have a really good frame of reference for it. I've been 98 00:07:18,959 --> 00:07:24,839 easing into the Christmas music, and of course now there's no stopping it when 99 00:07:24,879 --> 00:07:29,199 you're ready, once you've gotten yourself mentally there. And I refuse to listen 100 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:32,639 to Christmas music before Thanksgiving, and certainly I try to hold off until December 101 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,720 first. Once it's actually December, I'm okay with it. But I am 102 00:07:36,759 --> 00:07:41,839 a strong believer that if we're going to have a holiday about once a month 103 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,319 in this time of the year, let's do Halloween first, then Thanksgiving, 104 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,160 then Christmas or Kwanza Orhanika or whatever it is you celebrate. But I don't 105 00:07:51,279 --> 00:07:56,199 like going into Tarja, which is a place I don't go very often, 106 00:07:56,279 --> 00:08:03,040 and seeing Christmas decorations in late August or something like that, I just find 107 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:09,600 it incredibly annoying. Speaking of the holidays, it's that time of year again, 108 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:13,639 Yes it is. It is time for the True Crime Holiday Gift Guide, 109 00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:18,000 a project that I started back when we were solely concerned with the Colonial 110 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,319 Parkway Murders facebook page. And then I figured, hey, we've got a 111 00:08:22,319 --> 00:08:26,439 podcast. Why don't we expand this, Why don't we turn this into a 112 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,399 thing that we can provide for all people who love true crime? And now 113 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:33,639 here we are, and I believe this is the fourth iteration of the True 114 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:39,440 Crime Holiday Gift Guide. I am still waiting for it to go national or 115 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:46,720 multinational what does that mean? But I love the idea. I thought it 116 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,840 would be a fantastic idea. If the New York Times decided, Hey, 117 00:08:50,159 --> 00:08:54,200 I think that's a fabulous idea. Let's do a true crime Holiday Gift Guide, 118 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,279 and let's ask Kristin Dilly, renowned podcast host, to write it. 119 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:01,000 I would love that that doesn't happen. Oh okay, sorry, I wasn't 120 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,440 quite sure what you meant. But in the meantime, we do love providing 121 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:09,120 the Holiday Gift Guide. And in case you have someone is a great, 122 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,960 big fan of true crime, but you're just not sure what to buy for 123 00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:16,559 them because you yourself have not kept up with it throughout the year, maybe 124 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,360 as much as you would like to. We've done the work for you, 125 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,840 and we are providing you with some of the best books of the year and 126 00:09:22,879 --> 00:09:26,279 some of the best places where you can find interesting merchandise or tickets for crime 127 00:09:26,279 --> 00:09:30,759 con and so on and so forth. The twenty twenty three version of the 128 00:09:30,759 --> 00:09:33,320 True Crime Holiday Gift Guide starts now. You heard it here first, and 129 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,879 we'll go ahead and launch into it, starting with one of the best books 130 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,600 that I think I have ever read. Actually, I think Kim would probably 131 00:09:43,639 --> 00:09:46,879 blush to hear me say this, but I can say it with total and 132 00:09:46,919 --> 00:09:50,000 complete honesty. The best true crime book of this year for me, and 133 00:09:50,039 --> 00:09:54,480 possibly one of the best I've ever read, is In Light of All Darkness 134 00:09:54,720 --> 00:10:00,279 from Kim Cross, and I highly recommend it to anybody within interest in the 135 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:05,840 poly Class kidnapping case. Kim really offers the book of record on the Polyclass 136 00:10:05,879 --> 00:10:11,519 kidnapping from nineteen ninety three. She takes you through the case itself, the 137 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:16,080 investigation. She takes you through the aftermath. It is the most thoroughly researched 138 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,559 and well written book on the case. I would venture to say it is 139 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,200 one of the most thoroughly researched and well written books that I've read in recent 140 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,120 memory. It is just so well done, and it really gave me the 141 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,679 opportunity to understand the case, gave me the opportunity to cry a little bit 142 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:37,559 over the case because it is very moving, and it really got me thinking 143 00:10:37,879 --> 00:10:43,879 about the big changes that have occurred in the policing space since nineteen ninety three, 144 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,480 and we've made a lot of really good and interesting strides. So my 145 00:10:50,039 --> 00:10:54,919 first highest recommendation of the holiday season for a really good book that you or 146 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:58,600 any trucharm lover in your life would like is In Light of All Darkness by 147 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:03,120 Kim Cross. And we did interview Kim on episode three hundred and seven of 148 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,879 Mind over Murder and that ran on October ninth, twenty twenty three. So 149 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:11,559 for more information about Kim and her book, check out that episode. Our 150 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:18,360 next book is Tangled Vines by John Glatt. As we've talked about several times 151 00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:20,559 on the podcast, this year has seen a lot of twists and turns in 152 00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:26,320 the Murdoch case, as Kristen likes to say, and the Murdock adjacent cases 153 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:33,039 been a tremendous amount of media coverage. Out of all of the different books 154 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,679 and documentaries and podcasts, the thing we thought was the best in terms of 155 00:11:37,879 --> 00:11:43,360 capturing the essence of this case came from veteran true crime author John Glatt, 156 00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:48,120 and we had interviewed John on August seventh, twenty twenty three, and we 157 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,759 liked the conversation with John so much that we actually re ran that Mind Over 158 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:58,120 Murder episode as a bonus episode on October nineteenth, and it's our episode number 159 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:05,159 two eighty nine. It's a really fantastic overview of the Murdoch case, which 160 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,480 is just a tragedy all the way around. And actually Alex has been back 161 00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:15,440 in the news recently because he's been hit very hard and found guilty of stealing 162 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,679 what I think ultimately maybe hundreds of millions of dollars. It's certainly tens of 163 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:24,960 millions of dollars from his clients in his law practice. The Tangled Vines book 164 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:31,320 provides an incredible overview of that case, and we really enjoyed talking to John 165 00:12:31,399 --> 00:12:35,879 Glatt about the book. Oh, John is a total sweetheart. Even now, 166 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,960 as recently as last month, there were new books still coming out about 167 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,919 the case. But for my money and I about the most recent book, 168 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,919 and I've watched some of the documentaries, and we try not to listen to 169 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,240 the podcast that other people are putting out just so that it doesn't color our 170 00:12:50,279 --> 00:12:52,759 own reporting. But I do sit down and watch the documentaries when I can. 171 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,240 It's good company for grading. And I have picked up the most recent 172 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:01,399 book about the case. But for my money, John's got it nailed down. 173 00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:05,720 It is truly excellent, and I really enjoyed Tangled Vines. If you 174 00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:09,120 haven't had a chance to check that out from John, we do definitely recommend 175 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,679 that. And the other case, of course, that has made massive headlines 176 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,279 here starting in July and going all the way up to now, is of 177 00:13:18,279 --> 00:13:22,159 course, the Long Island serial Killer or LISK case. I know we're still 178 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,639 going back and forth and do we call it Lisk, do we call it 179 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:30,039 Gilgo Beach. I just got stuck on Lisk, So hopefully people don't take 180 00:13:30,039 --> 00:13:33,000 offense to that. That's just where I am right at the moment. But 181 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,080 after I have quite a great deal of time out of the news. It 182 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:41,720 came roaring back in in July with the arrest of Rex Huerman as the suspected 183 00:13:41,799 --> 00:13:48,120 killer of Marine Brainerd Barnes, Melissa Barthelemy Shannon Gilbert, Megan Waterman, and 184 00:13:48,159 --> 00:13:52,200 Amber Costello, as well as other unidentified victims on nearby Fire Island. As 185 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,000 we were all aware, unless we have been living under rocks, Rex Hereman 186 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:03,320 is currently in jail awaiting. The best way to catch up on all of 187 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,279 the information that you may have missed about the List case the first time around 188 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:13,399 is to check out Lost Girls by Bob Colker. We had the real pleasure 189 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:20,240 and privilege of talking to Bob about this truly excellent book on the September eighteenth 190 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:26,240 episode of our podcast That is episode three hundred and one, so right over 191 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,720 our big three hundred mark. It was really just absolutely fascinating to talk to 192 00:14:30,759 --> 00:14:35,399 Bob not only about the details of the case, but also about the amount 193 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,120 of research that goes into writing a book like this and the emotional toll that 194 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,240 it takes on you when you have to spend this much time with such dark 195 00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:46,120 subject. One of the things I think that Robert Kolker did better than most 196 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,720 people in the true crime space, and this is a reminder for Kristen and 197 00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:58,120 me and everybody is lost Girls. Focuses on these women, giving the backstory 198 00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:01,120 for these women, many of whom we're set workers, but talks about the 199 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:07,440 small towns they came from, how they came to be on Long Island or 200 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,440 in New York City. It's very moving when it gets into what their hopes 201 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,639 and dreams and aspirations were. He spent a lot of time with their families, 202 00:15:16,799 --> 00:15:20,759 mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, and friends, just trying to 203 00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:24,440 find out more about what these people were all about as people. And I 204 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,320 think that's one of the most striking things about the book. The book's almost 205 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,799 ten years old now, it came out in twenty fourteen. Still think it's 206 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:37,639 probably among the best writing I've seen in the true crime space, without question. 207 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,879 So far, it's the best writing I've seen about the Long Island serial 208 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,559 killer Go Go Beach four case. I have no doubt that once rex Hreman 209 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:50,480 goes to trial, there will be a number of different books that come out 210 00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:56,039 about the case after that. For our money, right now, the definitive 211 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,279 book, The Book of Record, if you Will, is from Robert Kulker, 212 00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:03,759 and that is called Lost Girls, released in twenty fourteen. We also 213 00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:10,279 recently discussed her in Mind Over Murder the intriguing idea that could Rex Heuerman, 214 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,759 suspect in the Long Island cases, also be the Route twenty nine stalker in 215 00:16:15,879 --> 00:16:21,159 Virginia, and we had a really interesting discussion with Sarah Sherman sewell her theories 216 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,879 and ours about whether or not rex Huerman could be the Root twenty nine stalker. 217 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,240 There are some very interesting potential areas of linkage, including the fact that 218 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:36,600 Jurman's mother lived in Pelmyra, Virginia, which is not far from the Route 219 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,720 twenty nine area where Alicia Showalter Reynolds was murdered and a number of other women 220 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:48,440 were assaulted. Very intriguing possibility whether or how that plays out. Next on 221 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,519 the list is a book that we are just absolutely delighted to be able to 222 00:16:52,559 --> 00:16:56,720 recommend because it is definitely something that we have both been looking forward to, 223 00:16:56,399 --> 00:17:00,159 and that is a Light in the Dark from Kathy Clinner Ribbon. I think 224 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:07,359 really the best aspect of Kathy's book is the extraordinary amount of hope that she 225 00:17:07,519 --> 00:17:15,359 brings to a very dark situation, not only her attack by serial killer Ted 226 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,400 Bundy, but also the various other things that she has gone through. She 227 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,799 has gone through enough in one lifetime for six people, right and come out 228 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,160 with an incredibly optimistic attitude. I don't know that I would have this sort 229 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:32,319 of fortitude in me that Kathy does to just put one foot in front of 230 00:17:32,319 --> 00:17:36,160 the other. But here is a woman who has survived childhood, lupus, 231 00:17:36,279 --> 00:17:41,319 breast cancer, Hurricane Katrina, and then that horrific attack by Bundy as well. 232 00:17:41,799 --> 00:17:45,960 Kathy's story is the one that I think we all need to guide us 233 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,519 in times of trouble and times of strife, because ultimately, what you get 234 00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:55,200 out of a light in the dark is if you can survive one truly terrible 235 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,359 thing or many truly terrible things, you can survive anything at all. I 236 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,480 really love Athy's upbeat, optimistic attitude. She is just an absolute gem of 237 00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:07,200 a person, and we are so thrilled to be able to spend time with 238 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,319 her at our various social engagements when they happen across paths. We've seen her 239 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,400 at crime Con, we've seen her at Savannah Crimexpo, and we're just thrilled 240 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,640 to be able to call her our friend because she is just so amazing, 241 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:26,000 very inspiring story and totally worth your while. Our next selection is another amazing 242 00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:33,160 story told from the perspective of an investigator and forensics expert, Lindsay Wade and 243 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:40,759 her book In My DNA. This is a fantastic story that outlines the work 244 00:18:40,839 --> 00:18:45,319 that Lindsay and her team did in seeking two missing young women in Seattle. 245 00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:52,960 Lindsay's career is really notable in that she has done so much amazing work on 246 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,759 these cases. I was reading Lindsay's book and really what I left the book 247 00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:00,000 with was this idea that I think, I think I'd like to grow up 248 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:06,119 to be Lindsay Wade. There are very few people whose lives I look at 249 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,799 and go, you know what, that's pretty amazing, and Lindsay is one 250 00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:15,400 of them for sure. We had the pleasure to speak to Lindsay about her 251 00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:21,640 career and her cases and her work on episode three point fifteen of Mind Never 252 00:19:21,759 --> 00:19:25,960 Murder that was November sixth. It was just a real pleasure and a privilege 253 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:30,319 to be able to talk to Lindsay and learn all of this great information about 254 00:19:30,759 --> 00:19:34,960 her life as an investigator and the cases that matter most to her. Lindsay's 255 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:40,599 book is a very quick read because it's so well written and it's very compelling, 256 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,200 and of course she takes you down quite a dark road in terms of 257 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,079 the work that she did in solving the case of Jennifer Bastian, who was 258 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,279 killed in nineteen eighty six. We actually thought the book was so good we 259 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,160 even said to Lindsay on the air that we think she should write another book 260 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:03,319 because her story is fantastic and it it's a very uplifting and inspirational story. 261 00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:07,799 She's gone on to have a very interesting career as an investigator, and we 262 00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:11,759 actually hope that she'll continue writing. She did say it's a lot of work, 263 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,359 as we both know, and it took her through quite an emotional journey 264 00:20:15,519 --> 00:20:19,480 to get all this down on paper. But we'd actually love to see her 265 00:20:19,519 --> 00:20:23,839 write a second book. Absolutely, Lindsay, if you're listening, please start 266 00:20:23,839 --> 00:20:29,839 writing another book. You absolutely must keep us entertained. We really appreciated your 267 00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:34,279 first one, but we want more. You had no pressure there. Your 268 00:20:34,319 --> 00:20:38,160 public is asking for it, but no pressure. You're listening to Mind over 269 00:20:38,279 --> 00:20:45,839 Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors. We're back 270 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:52,079 here at mindover Murder. The next book on our list is Evidence of Things 271 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,720 Seen by Sarah Winman. She is known for her wonderful newsletter that she writes 272 00:20:56,799 --> 00:21:03,720 as the Crime Lady, where she outlines cases that are of interest, books 273 00:21:03,759 --> 00:21:07,920 that she has found compelling and interesting to read. She was the editor of 274 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:15,319 a first collection of long form true crime pieces called Unspeakable Acts. And since 275 00:21:15,319 --> 00:21:18,160 I found Unspeakable Acts, I've been waiting and waiting with baited breath for a 276 00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:22,880 follow up because I very much wanted there to be more. Unfortunately, Evidence 277 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,680 of Things Seen came out in March. We were also lucky enough to get 278 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:32,880 an early edition of the book. That is one of the nice side benefits 279 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,920 of this podcast that makes me so very happy is that sometimes we get to 280 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,920 read stuff before the rest of y'all do. And so Evidence of Things Seen 281 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,039 is an excellent collection of long form true crime reporting. But they do take 282 00:21:45,079 --> 00:21:49,279 a lean towards social justice and the ethics of true crime, which is something 283 00:21:49,319 --> 00:21:55,640 that's very important to both of us. Here we ran our interview with Sarah 284 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,839 on episode two forty nine, which ran March twentieth two some twenty three, 285 00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:04,200 and again that was an episode that we liked so much we ran it as 286 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,599 a bonus episode this past October. Sarah is one of those people that I 287 00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:14,240 definitely want to meet, and so I'm very much hoping that she is able 288 00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:18,000 to free up her schedule enough to come to our next crime con because I 289 00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:22,519 would definitely like to meet her and discuss all things crime with her. She 290 00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:25,920 lives here in the Northeast. If necessary, we could track her down on 291 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,039 one of your next visits to the Great Northeast. A lot of people tend 292 00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:33,160 to live in the I found that a lot of our guests actually live up 293 00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:36,599 in your neck of the woods more so than live in my neck of the 294 00:22:36,599 --> 00:22:38,759 woods. We may have to go on a road trip to grab Sarah and 295 00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:44,759 Greg Overacker and Kate Miles and have a real crime evening. There'd be some 296 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,920 You'd be going through the beautiful New England States, that's for sure, And 297 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,680 actually I have not been any further north than Massachusetts, so hey, I'm 298 00:22:55,759 --> 00:22:59,160 perfectly happy to take us swing up through Vermont and Maine. I love to 299 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,799 make fun of my friends in New Hampshire, including Jane Burrowski and others, 300 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,480 so we could venture forth there. The world doesn't end at the Massachusetts border. 301 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,039 There's more. I feel like maybe a mind of a murder road trip 302 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:17,680 is in order. Not during the winter, though, not during the winter. 303 00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:21,400 Y'all are freezing cold, and I absolutely cannot stand it. Okay, 304 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,880 you didn't want to come up here for Christmas? Hmm, no, thank 305 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,880 you? All right, no, thank you. It was sixty degrees here 306 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,039 the other day, and I bet it hasn't gotten out of the thirties for 307 00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:36,680 you guys. It's been chilly, yeah, down in the twenties. Some 308 00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:40,279 snow, yeah, I'll stick right here with the South. You guys can 309 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:45,480 keep your snow in your freezing temperatures perfectly fine. Okay. Speaking of people 310 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:48,559 we'd like to have on a true crime road trip, I definitely think that 311 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,880 doctor Michael Boden is someone that we would love to have on our true crime 312 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,240 road trip. And we were just honored and thrilled to be able to interview 313 00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:03,000 the iconic doctor Michael Bodden. If you were to ask most true crime fans 314 00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:07,119 to name a forensic expert, you'd have people who named doctor Henry Lee, 315 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,079 doctor Cyril Weckt, But probably the name that would come up more than any 316 00:24:11,079 --> 00:24:15,200 other would be doctor Michael Bodden. His amazing book American Autopsy, focuses on 317 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:23,000 his career. He also takes a look at the very real and very complex 318 00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:30,039 issues of racism in policing, as well as just the most challenging cases that 319 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,000 he has spent time on throughout the years. Really gripping stuff, and for 320 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:37,400 that reason, I would also put doctor Boden's book up there with some of 321 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,079 the best true crime that I've read this year. It's truly, truly fascinating 322 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,480 to read. He got into some really interesting discussion points with us. We 323 00:24:45,559 --> 00:24:52,240 interviewed him on episode two eighty two, which ran in July twenty twenty three 324 00:24:52,319 --> 00:24:56,119 this year. We weren't certain he was necessarily going to open all of these 325 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,920 avenues, but he chose to answer our question very directly. Talked about the 326 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:10,079 balance that forensic pathologists and medical examiners have to strike between their obligation to their 327 00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:15,480 patients even though these people are deceased, and the law enforcement partners they work 328 00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:18,240 with. I think both Kristin and I were very surprised when he talked about 329 00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:25,559 how much pressure law enforcement will put on medical examiners and pathologists looking for certain 330 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,319 outcomes that might make law enforcement look better rather than worse. But as he 331 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,799 was explaining to us, it's not always that easy. Really fascinating conversation. 332 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,440 So happy to have been able to meet him at Crime con He had quite 333 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,920 the circle of followers and admirers around him. It was a pleasure to be 334 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,440 able to actually shake his hand in person. Super great guy and very funny 335 00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:53,200 too, And that was one of those situations where as we've talked about before 336 00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:56,960 here, a lot of our relationships, if you want to call them that, 337 00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:03,200 with true crime experts and investigators, authors, all sorts of people, 338 00:26:03,599 --> 00:26:10,759 they're electronic relationships. We make connections with people as a result of their work, 339 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,839 but a lot of times then we're setting up interviews via text or email, 340 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,920 usually conducting the interviews via zoom and Kristen, of course, is in 341 00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:23,720 Virginia. I'm here in Connecticut, and our third person when we have interviews 342 00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:29,759 can be anywhere, so the technology affords us this opportunity. Many of these 343 00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:33,720 examples, we've never met these people in person. So I know when we 344 00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:38,039 were at Crime Gon you were bound and determined to meet doctor Boden. When 345 00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:41,440 we saw him at the Clue Awards, you were like, that's it. 346 00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:45,839 I'm going, Oh, I got to weigh my way through this crowd of 347 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:52,839 admirers surrounding doctor Boden and introduce myself. I know he was very pleasantly surprised 348 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,920 to meet you and then me, because he obviously wants to make that personal 349 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:03,279 connection as well, and he's an incredibly charming guy. Yes, tickled to 350 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,400 say, oh, you're the people from Mind over Murder. I so enjoyed 351 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,599 our conversation, and yet it was that one additional step where you were finally 352 00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:15,839 able to thank him in person. And I also said I wanted to sell 353 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,880 for you with the handsomest guy in the room. I think that probably helped 354 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:26,200 too. That line works better for you than for me. Yeah, that 355 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:32,000 is true. Moving on to I would say probably the most recent addition to 356 00:27:32,279 --> 00:27:36,880 my reading list, and that would be The Hunt for Brianna Maitland from Greg 357 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,160 Overacker, one of our very good friends who is just a real delight to 358 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,480 be able to talk to. I absolutely adore Greg. Coming home one evening 359 00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:51,640 to find his book on my doorstep in a mailing envelope was one of those 360 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,319 happy surprises that you get. Bill's holding up his copy right there. One 361 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,000 of the most confounding cases to come out of Vermont over the last two decads 362 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,240 has to be the disappearance of Brianna Maitland. Our friend Greg o'backer, who 363 00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:11,559 is the private investigator for this family, has written the definitive book on the 364 00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:18,680 Brianna Maitland case, using his own investigation into Branna's disappearance in Probable Murder as 365 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,079 a stepping stone for how he tells the story. It was great to be 366 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,720 able to read absolutely everything about Brianna Maitland all in one place, and it 367 00:28:27,799 --> 00:28:30,519 was even better. I know Greg doesn't think this is the best part of 368 00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:33,200 the book, but I think it's the best part of the book. It 369 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,880 was even better to get Greg Overacker as bounty hunter stories as Welllyn. As 370 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,960 we said to Greg, and again easy for us to say, hard for 371 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:48,400 our guests to do. This was Greg's first book. We loved the Brianna 372 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,559 Maitland story, and of course it's a frustrating tale because ultimately we're still left 373 00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:57,000 with a lot of questions for Bruce and Kelly Maitland and their friends and family 374 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,160 in terms of what happened to Brionna. And it's a case that means a 375 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:06,400 lot to both of us the bounty Hunter story that Greg opens with. We 376 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,359 said, you've got to have more stories like that, and he said, 377 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,519 oh yeah, I've got a ton. And I said, we'd love it 378 00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:15,519 if you would do a book just on those bounty Hunter stories because they were 379 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:21,759 fantastic. Again, easy for us to assign Greg with yet another task. 380 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,200 Yeah, seriously, But I like Greg because he is very humble and unassuming, 381 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,240 and he was like, I don't get why people would want to read 382 00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:36,400 about that, because you're fascinating. He's on that na very very down to 383 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,319 earth about it. We would encourage you to order Greg's book if you're interested 384 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,599 in the Brandon Maitland case, but you do need to go through Greg's publisher. 385 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,680 It is not commercially available in stores at the moment, so please do 386 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,880 look for the information about that. We will include that in our show notes 387 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,880 as well. That availability issue with Greg's book, The Hunt for Breonna Maitland 388 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:02,480 may change, though, because seems to be getting more and more inquiries from 389 00:30:02,519 --> 00:30:06,880 bookstores, particularly in Vermont, that would like to carry the book. And 390 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,720 I'd love to see The Hunt for Brianna Maitland be available on Amazon and all 391 00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:15,880 the mail order houses as well as bookstores throughout the country because it's a fantastic 392 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,920 read. Yeah, I agree with you one hundred percent. We don't often 393 00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:26,839 offer nods to fiction because we are a true crime podcast emphasis on the true. 394 00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:32,319 However, I could not let my true crime Holiday if guide list go 395 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:41,119 by without including the fantastic, very interesting Nutcracker series from our very good friend, 396 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:48,160 doctor Katherine Ramsland. So this is the second installment of her Annie Hunter 397 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,559 series, and I don't think it's making too much of a stretch there to 398 00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:56,279 say that Annie Hunter is modeled on the good doctor herself. Yes, it 399 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:02,839 seems like any Hunter might be Catherine Ramslin's alter ego. Certainly seems like it 400 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,440 to me. This installment sees any Hunter and knee deep in a mysterious crime 401 00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:10,759 on the outer banks of North Carolina, one of my favorite places to go, 402 00:31:10,839 --> 00:31:14,880 one of Catherines as well, and she is, in addition to solving 403 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,359 a crime, also in for some nasty weather. So the book in the 404 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,799 Damage Path is the answer to the question how is a serial killer like a 405 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:29,160 violent storm? The answer is very interesting and highly entertaining. I definitely recommend 406 00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:33,720 the Nutcracker series. It's a lot of fun. If you are not a 407 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,920 fan of fiction, you can enjoy all seventy of doctor Catherine Ramslin's other books. 408 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,799 My personal favorites are her tie ends to CSI in Criminal Minds for Obvious 409 00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:49,319 Reasons in The Damage Path. The second book in the Annie Hunter series is 410 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,920 out now, and is she promising us more in the future. I'm hoping 411 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,680 she does. I haven't talked to her about it, but I am. 412 00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:05,079 I am blurbing her next nonfiction book even as we speak. Explain what blurbing 413 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:13,200 means for civilians. I am reading it and providing a glowing review for publication. 414 00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:16,240 So you're one of those experts they put on the back that says this 415 00:32:16,319 --> 00:32:25,039 book is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yeah, it's cool. See 416 00:32:25,079 --> 00:32:30,880 it's very flattering to be asked to blurb as they say. It's been very 417 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,480 cool. This is the second time I've been asked to do it, and 418 00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:37,160 I still can't get over it. I'm grinning like an idiot in case you 419 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,759 can't hear it in my voice. I'm very excited. So I'm having a 420 00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:47,240 wonderful time reading doctor Ramslin's newest and I cannot wait to craft the perfect couple 421 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,880 of sentence blurb to let her know how much I'm enjoying her book. Absolutely, 422 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,440 We've enjoyed having Catherine on our podcast several times. The most recent time, 423 00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:00,480 if you're going back to listen to one of those episodes, was July 424 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:06,519 twenty fourth, and it was our episode number two eighty five with doctor Catherine 425 00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:09,000 Ramslin. And of course we're going to try to have her on again as 426 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,799 soon as possible to talk about all of the many things on which she is 427 00:33:13,799 --> 00:33:15,880 an expert. And the number of things that she's an expert on kind of 428 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:21,559 makes my head spin in that in writing seventy books, it's an impressive track 429 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,799 record. She is a powerhouse for sure. And then to finish up, 430 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,799 this is a little bit of a it's a little bit of a cheat because 431 00:33:28,839 --> 00:33:32,440 you can't get your hands on this book yet, and I'll explain that in 432 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:37,960 a second, but you will be able to pre order this, and I 433 00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:44,759 highly recommend that you do pre order this because it is an amazing book from 434 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,200 Casey Sherman, author of Helltown and A Rose for Mary. It is called 435 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,880 a Murder in Hollywood. This is coming out in February twenty twenty four. 436 00:33:53,599 --> 00:34:00,440 It is the glitzy, gritty look at the Murder of hollyod would Starlett Lynnett 437 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:08,400 Turner's abusive boyfriend named Johnny Stumpinado. Very interesting subject matter, first rate storytelling 438 00:34:08,599 --> 00:34:15,400 as we come to expect from Casey. Absolutely fantastic. I highly recommend it. 439 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:20,960 So good, And this is a true crime story. Johnny Stompinado was 440 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,320 a real guy, and he really was Lana Turner's boyfriend, and he really 441 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,800 was murdered. This is one of those truth is stranger than fiction sort of 442 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,280 things. Because as soon as Casey had mentioned this is what he was writing 443 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,800 about, I was like, wait, is this actually true? Did this 444 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,760 really happen? And of course this is right up my alley because I teach 445 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:44,440 film class. I am movie buff. I'm very interested in all things related 446 00:34:44,519 --> 00:34:46,880 to Golden Age Hollywood. And I went and look this up and I realized, 447 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,199 Oh, this is a story I've never heard before. How very interesting, 448 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,840 how very cool, And this is another book where you will be featured 449 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,480 on the back cover with a pithy quote. Am I correct? Yes, 450 00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:01,480 Casey asked me to blurb it. He was the first person to ask. 451 00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:07,719 And I hit the ceiling. I who was so excited, so yes, 452 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,960 I was very pleased and honored to be asked to blurb this for Casey. 453 00:35:12,559 --> 00:35:16,119 When A Murder in Hollywood comes out in February, if all goes well, 454 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,880 my blurb will be on the back cover. I am going to show that 455 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,320 off to everybody that I know. Boy, this podcast has used the word 456 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,519 blurb more than you ever read before. Yeah, it is. It totally 457 00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:36,280 has. So we're sorry to tease you with a Murder in Hollywood before you're 458 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,440 able to actually get it. But it is available for pre order, believe 459 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,920 it or not. I follow Casey on social media and he's already working on 460 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,280 his next book. Yeah. He is a hard worker and a prolific writer. 461 00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:53,199 Unbelievable. I wish that I had the amount of writing shots in stamina 462 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:58,119 as Casey and Catherine. I don't know how they do it. I can 463 00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:02,199 barely string two sentences together sometimes, as I'm getting ready for this podcast, 464 00:36:02,599 --> 00:36:07,119 I don't know how they're able to do what they do. Props to them, 465 00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:10,159 it's very impressive. One quick note, by the way, a few 466 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,000 of our listeners have teased us that we're blowing their budget with all of these 467 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:20,400 book recommendations. I do want to remind you that you don't necessarily have to 468 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,000 buy every one of these books. First of all, you could put this 469 00:36:23,199 --> 00:36:28,880 on your holiday list and someone might buy it for you. The second thing 470 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,800 is in our small town library, if I go to them and ask them 471 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,199 to consider buying a book, they will often add it to their list. 472 00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:43,599 And that way, if they want to provide interesting books that people in the 473 00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:47,599 community are interested in reading, they will actually listen to our recommendations, that 474 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,239 is, the local townspeople. So for example, if you say, would 475 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,719 you consider buying such and such a book, We're going to give you a 476 00:36:54,719 --> 00:37:00,800 little bit of ammunition here because in Kristen's write up about these upcoming books and 477 00:37:01,039 --> 00:37:07,039 books that are out now, you've got a nice little paragraph there that describes 478 00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:12,360 the book and talks about why we thought it was particularly compelling. So don't 479 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,360 feel like you have to buy every single one of these books. You can 480 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,079 also recommend them to your local library or put them on your holiday list, 481 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,079 and you never know, they may end up in your stocking one way or 482 00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:27,400 the other. Absolutely, the last thing that we do want to mention it's 483 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,000 just a reminder because I think sometimes people forget we do have merchandise for our 484 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:37,639 podcast, y'all. It's a really wonderful, high quality company that does our 485 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,599 merch for us. The company that we work with is called Tea Public and 486 00:37:42,639 --> 00:37:47,159 they do an amazing job custom making the kind of shirts, mugs, and 487 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:52,039 hats and phone cases and various other things that you may want with our logo 488 00:37:52,159 --> 00:37:55,760 on them, and they do it for a very reasonable price. So if 489 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,760 you love Minded a Murder, and we hope that you do, and you 490 00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:06,119 like to have a beach towel, or a phone case, or a journal 491 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,920 or some variety of t shirt, sweatshirt, hoodie, you name it with 492 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,599 our logo on it, we do encourage you to go to Tea Public and 493 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,639 just type in mind over Murder in the search bar and you will find a 494 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:22,559 wide variety of styles and colors of everything that you could possibly want that has 495 00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:25,960 our logo on it. If you are in need of an interesting gift for 496 00:38:27,079 --> 00:38:30,760 someone who loves the podcast or a gift for yourself, we do recommend going 497 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,039 to Tea Public. And this time of year, we also want to just 498 00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:37,559 take a minute to thank all of you for your support. We appreciate your 499 00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:45,559 kind remarks and thoughtful analysis on our social media pages. We appreciate the fact 500 00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:50,920 that you have taken the time to give us five star reviews on Facebook, 501 00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:59,159 Twitter, Instagram and of course now I'm on threads, which is another so 502 00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:02,280 so media. Please how do you keep track of all of this? I 503 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,000 have no idea. The key thing is always now, where did that person 504 00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:13,440 write to us? On what platform it was? But we really appreciate your 505 00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:17,119 kind remarks and your five star reviews. They mean the world to us. 506 00:39:17,199 --> 00:39:22,920 The feedback is incredibly helpful. We really appreciate all of the support that you've 507 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,159 shown us over the past several years, and we wish all of you a 508 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:30,400 very happy holiday season. Thank you all so much for listening. We hope 509 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:35,079 you have a very happy holiday and look for more from us in the coming 510 00:39:35,079 --> 00:39:38,079 weeks. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We'll see you 511 00:39:38,119 --> 00:39:52,960 next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog 512 00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:59,800 Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art 513 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:05,079 is by Pamela Arnoit. Our theme music is by Kevin McLeod. Mind Over 514 00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:09,360 Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. You can follow us on 515 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:14,360 Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also follow our page on the 516 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:19,280 Colonial Parkway murders on Facebook, and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on 517 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,199 Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six. Thank you for listening to Mind Over Murder.