Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and like I say, welcome to the show. We have an exciting one. It's aviation again. We had that I don't know, maybe a month or so ago speaking with Todd Curtis, and tonight we have a fighter pilot for the first part of the show and his name is VINCENTI Yellow and he'll be on, like I said, the first hour, and if all goes well, we'll have a aviation correspondent, Tyler Rogaway, who has written recently about some UFO sightings. He will be on the second part of the show. And before all that, we have news as usual with Alejandro Rojas. In just one minute. I will tell you that for those regular YouTube listeners and perhaps even some podcasts subscribers, you may not be aware of this, but we had a show midweek while actually mid show week on last Friday with the Heineck Brothers doctor j Allen Heineck's two sons. We had a Joel and Paul Heineck on a very good show. We had some interesting people call in and I'm sure you'll really enjoy it. That's for subscribers. It's as a podcast and anyone can watch that on YouTube, so go check it out. That was done last Friday and it's up on YouTube again and for subscribers. And that's enough. I do want to thank everyone that helps out with the show and we are ready to roll. Alejandro, how are you? Hello? Hello? Hello, how are you this week? Very good? That's so cool that you got you know, the Gentleman from the Fighter like podcast. In fact, I've got a link on the front page of my website to that podcast. So yeah, oh I was we can check that out. Someone sent that to me and I was fascinated. And I was very suled that Vincent was, um, you know what, come on the show so to talk about it, because I would say, you know, he's righteously a skeptic, but he was. You know, we fascinated enough to get in touch with David Fraver, who he actually knew, and uh interview him another really great interview. I'm glad you have that posted. It's a good one. I'm dying to know what he thinks of Braver too. This is so exciting that you have him on, just because it did interesting to know. I mean, Fraver is certainly very credible. His case is very compelling. You know, he was a commander, so and of course all the other people his colleagues who also witnessed all this event. It's interesting to know, you know, what their colleagues think of all of this. So yeah, yeah, exciting so news you and I have, Oh yeah, so it's pausing to make sure I had the okay to continue on with UFO news. So yeah again. You know, we've got a story today from Pennsylvania Penn Live called Pennsylvanians spotted UFOs seventy seven times in twenty eighteen? Did aliens visit your town? Kind of like the last part of course, a little goofy. But the point here is, yet again, we keep seeing these stories popping up. You know, I think just last week there was one a hundred sidings in New York. I think it was in New York. It was not the New York Times, but another New York paper. And we're seeing these pop up all over the place. Their reference the National UFO Reporting Center. However, they are inspired to write about all this because of Project Blue Book, the TV show. So I mean, it's just really creating a lot of attention everywhere about uh, you know, UFOs and I think that it's just really interesting. I think this phenomena, you know, of this show kind of opening people's eyes to that, to the fact that, you know, even scientific investigators inside the Air Force felt that there was something to the phenomena. It is really eye opening to people. Along with of course this information that there were pilots as well that had their own sightings, and there's some stuff in the news regarding some of that or at least related stuff as well. So yeah, so that's the Pennsylvania paper. I just pointed that out for for mainly for that reason that we keep getting these people looking into this. Yeah, you know, project book. You know, series has really stirred up a buzz in the UFO field community, at least it really has well, and now we know that it's stirring up a bus everywhere else. Yeah, and the well, this is what's funny because the general public we have, you know, they're they're very positive, you know, about the credibility of UFOs and they reference the Pentagon Project and you know, they're treating it very seriously. But then when you look at let's say a UFO blog or a UFO forum, you know, all the a lot of the hardcore UFO researchers are are upset and you know, oh it's not accurate, but they've just gotten so negative. It's like, and I think that they like having their own niche. They don't get excited about the mainstream looking into the topic. Maybe they feel territorial or I mean for me, you know, as a journalist and a writer, I would rather have the mainstream looking into it, so we have more credibility, more resources to look into what might be going on. But it's a really funny phenomena. But we almost got this really with the Pentagon Project as well and lu Elsondo, because you would think, oh, wow, people are excited. Look the Pentagon has this project, lou Alesando used to run it, wants to come out and help investigate UFO sightings. But no, they get all upset. No, he's got to be lying, he's got to be full of it. Rah rah rah run. And so it is there is this weird kind of disconnect, and I think they're really losing the point and that you know, what their project is or what they're most enthusiastic about, is becoming much more mainstream and popular and easier for people to to digest, which is pretty exciting. I think I wonder if that's part of it. I wonder if that's part of the the I don't want to say anger or whatever it is. The negativity out there is that it's becoming mainstream and like they, you know, it's too mainstream for them or I guess, I don't know. I don't completely have a figure out either, you know, one of us I think what we have to do and there are people sociology and psychologists who are interested in this field. Maybe we need to talk to them and see if they can examine and what this phenomena is. Yeah, but you know, there is some news related to that as well, because some people are skeptical that the group that Alesando worked for the Advanced Airspace Identification Program what doesn't really exist or at least they didn't do what Alesando did in that Alesando's lying or misrepresenting all of that. And we do have some documents that just came out recently. They came out to the Federation of American Scientists and also to Nick Pope, who did Foyer request for more information about a tip and they did get some information. So these documents list the products that were produced by a TIP and the products being in this case, the papers that came out of it. The papers are mostly along the lines of theoretical science around propulsion systems such as warp drive, stargates, this sort of thing, and the potential for these sorts of things. But so they're interesting documents. None of them reference UFOs, but it is interesting that at least in the document it does kind of list it separately as Advanced Aerospace Threat and Identification, which, of course Louilllizondo has said that part of that program was not just to theorize, but also to try to identify these unknowns, many of which, of course lou fills were unidentified, including one of those being the case it in two thousand and four within the midst to carry a stripe group, which you all are about to talk about, that being the main case we know about. In fact, we know very little to nothing about any other case except for the nimits one that a TIP had looked at and determined to be something unusual. So I mean, it's just further confirmation that this organization did indeed exist, that it could possibly and according to lou it does exist to this day and they're continuing this sort of work, which of course is surprising because we never knew that before. We were always told for decades that the government has no interest in the UFO phenomena. And here we have a Pentagon program was going on, even with people we had talked to, even with people we had interviewed, and we didn't even know that was happening. So and I was even managing pr for a project that was being funded by this and I didn't even know that when I was with Muffon. So it's an extraordinary situation. And here again, you know, projects like Elizondo and him coming out and Favor coming out has really opened the door to the media being more accepting of taking this whole thing very seriously, and also people in the aerospace industry taking it more seriously, people like Tiger Rogaway, who you're going to interview it, you know, defense writer. He writes about advanced technology that is known, but he am feeling more open to being able to talk about this Favor being all over the place, And then you know your guests tonight, I'm not sure and maybe you could ask if he would have been as forthcoming or wanting to even talk about talk on some Weird Guys podcasts about UFOs. You know, if it hadn't been for like Favor and some of these other credible people with military backgrounds coming out and finally revealing that, you know, they've had these experiences and they believe there is a mystery here right right. You know, I've said, you know many times that I I don't think there's any part of our government that actually knows actually what it is. Do you feel the same way about that? I mean, that's just it's hard to say, And I think you do make a good point. We have, of course, John Alexander, who was an army intelligence and he got together a group of people in intelligence who also believed that UFOs post a real mystery. They went looking for the secret keepers and they didn't find any. And essentially what they found, which maybe I think you should bring up tonight, is that people don't want to report anything. Just like in this report that came out about Nimmet's Favor and the pilots when they got back to the aircraft carrier, they were made fun of people. They're the intelligence debriefing guys had tinfoil hats on other people at Tinfoil hats made fun of them. You know, there was even it was expressed some you know, real frustration at the ridicule that they faced. And so they don't want to report these things, so that would end. So that's what Alexander says. Is it it more kind of a conspiracy of incompetence. It's not really that they're hiding secrets, is that they're just not organized enough or willing enough to take a strong look at this. On the flip side, we have documents that we've known to have had. You know, I've got a video out on this on Open Minds TV about military secrecy and UFOs. So we have these documents where they're looking at UFOs, they're sending these they're flagging them with their you know these flags that essentially say this needs to go to the leadership. We need to take a serious look at these cases. Paul Deane for Instances, a researcher out of Australia who's followed where these documents have gone, and they've gone to departments that are not well known, that close and open up up under a different name. So at least there's somebody that was looking at these How seriously were they taking it was it a group like a TIP that didn't have a lot of resources that maybe we're able to examine them and write up some reports. That's probably most likely what they did, which is more along the lines of what you're talking about. They took these reports, they looked at them, see saw what they could glean for them. Can't really figure anything out. And that's about it. But of course some people believe that there's somebody somewhere that we're taking these reports and then also you know, uncovering major secrets and keeping hurting people to make sure that they stay quiet, or even you know, housing aliens and bunkers underground or something like that. I don't think really we have any evidence of that. Even with this recent Bob Lazar you know documentary, we have anecdotal stories from people, some of whom are somewhat creds, seem somewhat credible, but don't really have any evidence to back that up. So, at least for me, the scenario that you're expressing that Alexander even talks about it is probably more accurate that there could be some reports going on, some examination of reports, but no you know, major discovery or hanger with UFOs or and aliens or something like that. Right, M. One of the things that I'm going to bring up tonight is UM the I know you're very well aware of. This is the chapter that from the Air Force Academy, out of the physics book that talks about UFOs that j. Allen Heineck gave to Lee Spiegel and um so I put a copy up. There's a copy on the podcast UFO dot com, um pdf. Anyone can check out their thirteen pages talks about UFOs. And once he started to make that public, it was removed from the book. The book was removed from Now, okay, that's not how the story, guys, but you're you're along the same signe. Something was changed. Yeah, so what had happened? That book was separate, so that book, you're right, It is really interesting. There were several versions of this chapter in this physics book that was taught at the Air Force Academy about UFOs, and it even speculated that perhaps we've been visited for thousands of years, speculating that you know, UFOs may be here from other planets to check us out doing this or that. So a lot of speculation in this chapter, which is really interesting and the Air Force Academy is in Colorado Springs. Well, the Denver Posts got a hold of the fact that they were they had this chapter in there. It was about nineteen seventy, so about a year after Project Bluebook closed, and so there was a lot of scrutiny. People are like, what are you teaching this weird stuff about UFOs at the Air Force Academy. So that's when they pulled that chapter. The least Spiegel thing is interesting though, and it does go back to what we were talking about earlier. The least Spiegel thing was he was going to do an article about how the Air Force reports UFOs and that they are reporting UFOs and they flag him with these Well that there's this section that was in the j NAP documents. It was also in the Air Force documents that said here's how you report UFOs. Well, when Lee first there, you know, John Greenwald from Project Blue Book showed him where to go to see these files. They were there. He started writing his story for the Huffington Post, and then when he went back just a couple of days later, they were gone. And that's and in the meantime, he had, you know, called up the Ear Force for comment about these files. He then called him back and said where did those go? And they said, oh, we we were cleaning out the files. And that was just something. So either it was a huge coincidence or you know, his inquiries did have a an effect. But one really important thing is that, and this is all in our video actually that I was just referencing, is that what it was replaced by. What is in its place are a different set of instructions form for submitting important intelligence sightings of other things. It doesn't specify UFOs in this document, and it's called op REP. It's a different level of OPERAP reporting, and that actually is what they use to report UFOs, and there are operap reports when you go look for those, and that did give a clue for different UFO researchers to look for these OPERAP flagged unknowns, and sure enough through FOYA there have been you know, a few found, especially UFO sightings over nuclear facilities where these they don't know what they are, or others where you do have there UFO reports that were escalated. We don't know what happened to them, but they still used that opera to them. That did indeed replace that JAPP one forty six set of instructions that were older. Well, I'm so glad you set that straight because guess who's listening. Who just texts me least? So if there's anything you want to say to them, feel free to leave. Good work, buddy is always doing some awesome work. So right, good work on that, dude. Yeah, Alejandro, thank you so much, and we'll be talking to you next week. All right, pleasure to talk to you later. All right, take care, all right everyone. Our guest tonight, Vincent Yellow. He became enamored with aviation while attending an air show at a very young age, eight years old, and so that was his gold become a pilot. He has flown mostly the F eighteen Hornet and super Hornet, which is like a rocket strap to your back. F sixteen fighting Falcon, and he was also a top gun instructor and an air wing operations officer. Now he has Fighter Pilot podcast, which is very well listened to podcast. We're gonna be talking a little bit about that, but also about his recent interview. Welcome to the show, Vincent. Thank you Martin. It is my pleasure to be here. Yes, I appreciate the fact that you would actually come on UH show and currently you're a commercial pilot and that that. I want to tell you a story real quickly. I have told it on this this UH show quite a while ago, because it was about a year ago or so. I was. I was flying on I think it was United Airlines and there was a gentleman I started talking. We had a great conversation, and he ended up he was jump seating to another location. I think that's what you call it, if I remember right, and hum. So he was a commercial pilot, but he said he used to fly F fifteens, and and the conversation came up. I asked him if he had heard anything about the Pentagon and researching UFOs um, you know a few months earlier. I think it was a February just after that first part of this year last year, and uh. He said no, I hadn't heard about it. And then he turns to me and he goes, but I know they're real, And I said, whoa. I said what I explained. I just want hear what you get to say, and he said, um. He was flying somewhere over the Midwest, and all of a sudden, he uh, he's his cockpit started getting like a green light in it, and he looked all around and behind him. I don't know, I know you don't call it the backseat or whoever they call that. Um he I think he said he was asleep, and I've heard that's impossible, but you know, maybe he was dozing off or whatever. But he um, he didn't wake him up. If that was the case, it was only him that saw it. And then it got so bright that it filled his entire cockpit and um, you know, made him really scared, and he called there was nothing, um, you know, nothing registered on radar um. But then he said, it just shot off. And so I I asked him if he'd be willing to talk about it, even anonymously on a UFL show, and he said, no way, he said, UM no, no, not in my position. So how do you feel, You're you're a commercial pilot now and you have no problem talking about UFOs. Are not worried about it in any type of No, I'm not because I personally have not had any experience with anything that I've seen while flying that I could not identify. I know there are people who have, and so I became involved with this, as you said earlier, with my podcast when I interviewed Commander Fraber, and I would just like to add, just for the sake of it, the terminology so to jump seat is up in the cockpit with the actual pilots flying. He was most likely what we call dead heaving very good. Yeah, it took. And I don't know if the Air Force calls the backseater a wizzo, but that's what we call him in AN eighteen, the weapons systems operator, and of course in an F fourteen it was a rio radar intercept officer. And I, you know, Martin, I am loath to say that anyone is wrong, because I've not walked in their shoes. But I will say that I've been drowsy in an airplane, a military airplane. I've never fallen asleep, And if I were flying with a backseater who did doze off, generally any little thing that's different would usually startle them. You don't sleep so deeply that you wouldn't come to if something out of the ordinary happened. I think your body just almost requires it. So I have some difficulty with that story. The fact that he is unwilling to discuss it seems a little convenient because maybe he was caught in a exaggeration. But again, I've never had such an experience, so I'm not prepared to say that anyone who has is either lying or hiding something or anything else. Now, in general, does I know you did this, you did this podcast with David, But in general, does the topic of UFOs ever come up in the academy or anywhere else? Is it ever discussed? Well, I did not go to the Naval Academy, so I can't speak to that. I was a ROTC shipman at UCLA, And you know, it doesn't really come up because there's just no concrete discussion about it. When it comes up with someone like Commander Favor, then the answer is usually as it was stated earlier, the tin hats and the silliness. Because we are I would categorize as a class of people fighter pilots and air crewman. We are used to being in control and knowing our environment and our surroundings and understanding what we're doing in a moment, and when we can't understand it, we've searched for defense mechanisms like laughter or ridicule, because how else do we admit that there's confusion or uncertainty? So that is, in my opinion, a very logical response to him, because when he returned, as I understand the situation, he walked into what we call civic or the carrier information center, and he told them what he saw, and people didn't know what to do with that. He didn't know what to do with it. He was not sure what he saw. And so it's just a person who nervously laughs when they are caught in Well, that's a bad example because again I'm not implying line, but as a tick that people have during certain things that are happening, maybe before a fight happens, or you know, people who laugh when they're really scared or something else. I think it's just a normal, quote unquote normal reaction for people in our line of business to make fun and ridicule and try to explain it away that way, or maybe not even so much explain it away, but but just deal with it that way, because a lot of people just don't know how else to him. Sure, if you were if you personally were flying yourself and actually saw something you couldn't understand, what would be the protocol would what would you do if you saw something unusual? Well, in my previous capacity as a military pilot, I would try to make sure my tape recorder was on. If I had wingman, I would search for justification from him. Maybe justifications not the right word, but I would point out to my wingman what I was seeing and what did he or she think it could be, so that it could be corroborated, maybe as a better word. And I would try to get whatever information I could. But it's difficult to ask, or I should say, it's not difficult to ask that. It's difficult to answer that because it's like asking people, well, what would you do in the face of a bully, and we all say, oh, I'd stand up to him, or I would do this or that, And in reality, when a fight's about to happen, people respond very differently. The fight or flight response is real, and so I would like to say that I'd be cool and do all the things I just did, but in reality I might scream like a little girl and run the other way. I don't know. In my current capacity as an airline pilot, of course, it would be easy to just reach over to the captain in my case as a first officer and say, do you see that, what does that look? Like to you, what, hey, air traffic Control, are you seeing anything next to us similar to the story your F fifteen friend told you? So it's hard to answer that, but I'd like to think i'd be cool about it. And what do you think about is there anything set in place to report something like that that may not seem like a danger. I know there's always a way to report a danger, but something that may not seem like a danger that was unusual or would you tend to want to keep that to yourself? Oh? I think I would be willing to report it, regardless of the ridicule I would receive, because in that line of work, you get ridiculed for almost anything, and it's a little bit dog eat dog cutthroat. And I've in the past on my podcast discussed why it is that we do that, and I think, frankly, it's because we need to hold each other to such high standards that it's just our way of kind of picking at each other once in a while, or frankly, all the time to see is there any weakness, is there any chinks in the armor, Because it's basically unacceptable when you are landing on the aircraft carrier at night, in pitching seas, you have to be on your game, no alibis, no excuses, no weaknesses, no doubts. And so in a situation like that, I'd like to think that I would say, look, this is what I saw. I don't know what else to tell you. You can tease me if you want, because if it's not about this, it'll be about something else in a few minutes. So it just comes with the territory. But yeah, i'd like to think I would respond and report, yes, okay, well we're going to go into our first break here and we'll be right back. So this is Martin Willis and my guest is Vincent I Yellow, and we'll be right back right after these messages. So um, let's say, well we'll talk about off topics during the YouTube break here, and okay. And so I can't imagine what it's like to fly a horn it or super horne, like I said, you know, introducing it's like strapping a rocket to your back, the g forces and all that. What does it take to get used to all that? I mean, it must be intense training for a long time. It is now. If you ever watch videos of the Blue Angels when they take up the local reporter when they arrive at a location for an air show. The reporter generally gets sick, but always, but a lot of them do, and they don't tolerate the g forces very well. And I mentioned that because it's nothing like that. We crawl, walk, run. We start off with a low wing propeller trainer that we build maybe one hundred hours of flight experience in, and then we moved to jets, and then we begin to fight in the jets, doing aerobatic maneuvers and rolls and chasing each other around. Then we land on the carrier, and then we moved to in my case, the F eighteen. And you don't just walk into it like anything. You build a tolerance. And in some ways that's a good thing, like pulling gs and flying. Of course, in other ways it can be a bad thing, like people who build a tolerance alcohol and need to drink more and more to get a buzz. And so it's just thankfully something that you get used to. Really, what about simulator time? Is there a lot of that before you actually get get in behind the stick. Yes, The simulators are used to build procedural knowledge so that when you get in the airplane, you're not foundering around and wondering what to do now. So course of training begins with self study, and then academic instruction in a classroom, and then simulators, and then finally the airplane because by the time you get there, they don't want to waste everyone's time in the fuel in the range space to have someone fly who's not ready. It's very convenient and simple to practice in a simulator where they can critique you if you or procedures are not sound. Do they actually remind you of how much one of those babies cost a lot? Oh? Sure, quite often. That was always hope that the F eighteen Hornet was thirty five million dollars. So I tried to take that scratch part. Well. As long as you don't scratch it for reasons that you are messing something up, you know, on your own volition. If you're following procedures and something happens, well that's then you're still You're still doing what you're supposed to be doing. Now, is it classified? That is a speed classified on those No, not at all. It's well known that the F eighteen is advertised to do about Mack one point eight and I will tell you the only time I ever got close to that ninety seconds is Mack one point six, and that was in about a fifty or sixty degree dive with no pylons or external stores on the aircraft, and I started about fifty thousand feet and it was all I could to keep watching the Earth get bigger and bigger, thinking how fast is this thing really going to go? So it's a theoretical speed limit. And what's more protected are some of the what they call energy lines at different altitudes when they compare them to other aircraft, because then you start to see advantages and disadvantages, and so you see some of the some of the more classified stuff there. But otherwise it's pretty common that the F eighteen will do one point eight, and I think an F sixteen will do in fact, I know it'll do over mark two. Amazing. And I know the fuel consumption. I think they call it pounds instead of gallons, but it just it just click click, click, and just going away. It's like being dumped out of a big old dragon bucket. That's right, yeah, yeah, all right. Welcome back. This is Martin Willis withth podcast UFO and my guest is Vincent I Yellow, and we're talking aviation, and we're talking UFOs as well, and he was during the YouTube break, he was just telling me what it was like. So getting back to speaking with David Fraver, you actually knew David before, right, and he was he part of some TV series or something. Yes, he and I met in I want to say it was two thousand and three on the USS limits and then between two thousand and three and two thousand and five we were in the same air wing, both based at Naval Air Station Lamore, California, just about thirty miles south of Fresno in the middle of the state, and we would see each other around base, but because of the rank difference, he was an executive officer and then the commanding officer and I was a rank or two. But let behind. I wouldn't say we were friends, but we were acquaintances. And I was on the carrier the day in November of two thousand and four when the episode happened off the coast of Mexico, and on our deployment in two thousand and five, that is when the PBS carrier TV crew came out and spent the entire deployment with US and followed a number of people around, including some squadron mates of mine and Commander Framer. Now, what do you think about that whole encounter and also David story, it's quite compelling, wouldn't you say? It is very compelling? Martin? And I will tell you that the answer to your first question is, I don't know. Prior to that interview, I would have done as I intimated earlier and probably just made funds funny or a joke about whatever they thought they saw. And I'll be blunt. I thought anyone who believed in UFOs or at least outer space, but vehicles, you know, coming into our atmosphere were just wacky guys that just had an agenda or something else. And that attitude changed after my interview with Commander Favor. Yeah, yeah, because yeah, we're having a little bits tissue here. I'm sorry, Okay, no problem. So I didn't hear the last part of what you just said. Okay, Well, I was saying that my preconceived notion had changed after my interview with Commander Fraber because he did not fit the mold that I had built Wrongly, I would say, of people who have these beliefs, and when he told his story and I asked him point blank, what do you think it is? And he said, I don't know. It could be a super secret black project from the government or someone else's government, or it could be from outer space. I decided that that is an interesting conundrum to be in because usually as fighter pilots and we like to know, as I said earlier, are surroundings and what is real and what is not. And I think it's a mystery to him, and I don't know what to think either. I should announce that next week on this show, we're having Robert Powell and the whole discussion is going to be about the Nimitz and Nimitz encounter. He's done some great research on that. Yeah, I mean the description of the vehicles and then at one time them seeing so many of them is just bizarre. And they look just like tic TACs. They looked like they had little antennas on them, no sort of wing, any type of wing or any type of visual or detected propulsion system. And the way that it just you know, was in one spot and that instantly was in another spot, and it's just so bizarre. I mean, if it's not, if it's not from outer space, you know whatever, wherever it's from, it's it's bizarre wherever it is, right, and then go ahead, Yeah, well, I found and in fact I used in his episode a little pre roll snippet of his discussion. But I found that the part that he said that it did not seem to comply with the laws of physics that we take for granted on Earth to be very compelling, and so that was part of what I used in the opening bumper if you will, Yeah, yep, and it's I don't I don't know, I don't know, but I do find it interesting that the just class cruiser that was there had been tracking these for a period of time, and then that they were even out there after Commander Faber's event when he landed. His squadron mates went out right after that. And so it's not just again, one person who might have an agenda or wants the notoriety or just thought it'd be funny to make something up. There is evidence elsewhere. But then you turn around and say, well, why is none of that evidence available anymore? The Princeton's tapes, the tapes from Commander Faber. I guess there is some imagery that might be from the off coast of Florida. I guess in twenty fifteen. I'm not totally sure where it came from, but it is convenient, I think, to assume that maybe there is a cover up or something else because information is misplaced. But on the other hand, I could make a case, having lived the life, that it's very difficult to keep track of various things, even if they are important, because they get used another aircrew. In the case of the tapes, he was trying to say if he mentioned that in his interview, that someone else might have taken them out and used them the next day, and it just records over what was already there. So it's hard to know. It really is hard to know. And how how unusual is that that they actually had them you go out and check to see what it was. Is that a typical thing that would happen if they saw some unknown object in a certain area, certainly, especially if we were deployed away from our own shores. So I would say that it is not uncommon, But it is interesting that it was just one hundred miles off the coast of Mexico. But if we are ever on deployment somewhere Martin and the world with a situation as it is today, we don't always know who intends us harm that we have alerts that are ready, and if there's something that people don't understand, they will launch aircraft to go and identify what is out there. I see, I see. One of the things that doesn't get brought up too much in people are talking about this case is that people have seen things like this for a long long time. It's it's not something you know when a number of people will say, hey, look, you know this is could be some experimental craft. Well that's fine. Well what about fifty years ago when they were seeing you know, almost identical type things happening, you know? I mean that that's where it gets even more of a mystery, and that's what keeps me doing this show. It's it's a mystery. I agree, because it would be very convenient if we could look at something from fifty years ago and say, oh, that turned out to be the F one seventeen, right right, I don't that's true. And again, you never really know what motives people have or what is incentivizing them to either report something or to not report something, as the case may be. And I do know that there are different governmental initiatives that could be I guess suppose misconstrued depending on what it is they're doing. Of course, have to be careful because even though I'm retired from the military, I'm still bound by classification laws. But it's very possible that things that the military was doing but not admitting to is something that people misunderstood. And let's not lose track of the fact that we call something a UFO because it is unidentified, that does not necessarily imply that it's from outer space. I know, other you know, some organizations are using UAP and other you know, ways to talk about the subject. Because of the tainted you know, UFO, people just assume means alien. A lot of people do assume that you're feeling. So I probably picked a bad name from my podcast, but it's well, what is UAP. I'm not heard of that? Actually, oh, aerial boy, unidentified aerial phenomena, okay, or very close to that if I got it off a little bit, okay, yeah, problem, And so that's another one that's being used. But still and you'll see that there's a few, like I said, a few organizations that will use that. And actually when it comes to to pilots reporting that nightcap I believe is that's what they use for that term. M Now, I have a question for you. A lot of people are seeing, especially in the last several years, but going back really far, but they're seeing black triangles as far as UFO sightings. That's what we hear a lot about recently. But you know, least Eagle was actually listening to the show had quite a sighting back and I think it was nineteen seventy eight or thereabouts. And people have seen them for many, many years, and a lot of speculation is that they are, you know, secret military aircraft. A lot of people also report that they make no sound when they go overhead. Some people say there's a humming. Some people feel that there's some type of electrical charge. I've heard that sometimes ignitions and cars go off things like that. Do you think it's possible that there is military, secret military craft that would be flying for so long or is that you know? Do you think? I mean, I consider it just a mystery myself. I have no idea, But what is your thoughts on that. My thoughts are complex because, on the one hand, you take a project like the SR seventy one, or the F one seventeen or the B two, which all began very classified and then came out later if you will, as acknowledge programs, and now you can know all kinds of things about just about all of them. And also am mindful that it's almost hard enough for one person to keep a secret. Anytime you have more than one person, a secret is virtually impossible to keep, and so anything. So to answer your question, I do believe there are projects the government is working on. Whether one could exist for fifty years without it being acknowledged and without the secret to get out, that to me seems less plausible than maybe at one point whatever people saw it turned out to be the F one seventeen or the B two, and whatever we're seeing now just has not been acknowledged yet. And so there again, it's very difficult to say with any authority. And it's just my own opinion that I'm virtually certain that there are aircraft that the military is flying that we don't know about you and I, and maybe someday we will, maybe we never will, and if so, then they have a pretty darn good system in place for keeping it under wraps. Because if you think about the various locations in Nevada that became as very covert if you will, and now are relatively well known, it seems, and other projects that have been leaked or spilled or intentionally released. I don't know if anything, frankly, that it was developed and still not told about if you will, And if I did, I guess I couldn't tell you anyway, but I don't to make it simple, and so I think it is possible that there are aircraft out there being employed. Whether they're manned or unmanned, I don't know. And could they be using different propulsion sources and could have an electromagnetic pulse type impact on electronics near it? Sure, but I don't know if any Yeah, yeah, are you willing to while I actually put the phone number up there so anyone can call in. Now. We're only about fifteen actually eleven minutes. We're going to be going to a break and taking in another guest. So if anyone has a question they'd like to ask Vincent, please give a call. Now. That number's up on the screen, and that's six O three. Uh not that number that's up there. Let's see, we had a we had a problem with our last call in number. So it's a six O three nine sixty seven four h three zero and the number you see up on the screen is wrong. Hang on just a minute, please, Okay, there you go anyway. Um, So, uh, jeez, I had something I was gonna say, just but the number of thing? Um problem. Yeah. When when um, when you are are up in a jet and you're at say thirty forty thousand feet somewhere around there. Um. I know from experiencing myself, I've mentioned on this show that I was a flight attendant, you know, years ago. So um, and I've been up in the cockpit. You can see for miles and miles, miles and miles, and so you would think that if something is coming into the Earth, Earth's atmosphere and flying around, you'd be able to you know, with all the how many hours do you have in military aircraft three thousand, eight hundred and approximately a thousand and civilian? Yeah, so there you go. I mean that's you know, I don't know how many days it is, but you know you're out there. You know, you're usually your eyes are out there. I know, with autopilot you don't always have to be you know, concentrating, but still, you would think that you would see something. Have you ever been in a situation where anybody talks about they had a sighting they didn't know what it was. Only on the November of two thousand and fourth episode on the Nimits, and even then I don't recall being part of any discussions. I imagine I was going about my life as I normally would on the ship, and someone might have made it funny about it or pointed out, you know, the next day on our flight schedule called the air plan. Once in a while, on the back where all the notes are, there's a little extra real estate, so they'll put a cartoon of something recent or relevant. And for the next two or three days, of course, there were all these cartoons about men in black and all these other things, and so we might have made jokes about that, But truthfully, I don't really remember anything out of the ordinary or people talking about it, So no, I have no experience with that. Unfortunately. Well, I was wondering. I was wondering, how as you're a commercial pilot, probably that the you know when you said you know, probably the captain you're sitting next to, that conversation wouldn't come up even if that person saw something at one point, you know, it would be a strange conversation to get into, wouldn't it. Normally It would be because again, airline pilots are much like the military pilots that we like to have the answers because a lot rides on us, and we like to be in command of things and to be knowledgeable. And it's difficult for people to admit they don't know what it is they saw or are saying. And so I don't know if that's a pride thing per se, but I assume I don't know of any but I assume there are airline pilots out there who have said, hey, I saw something and I don't know what it was right right now? You know you've heard this a million times. I'm sure that there's there's a thousand hours of boredom for every fifteen seconds of terror or something like that, right, isn't that how they goes or I don't know the exact ratio, but that sounds about right, except when you are deployed in the Navy and at night you have to land on the carrier, then I would say it's more like an hour and a half of boredom depending on your mission, and about sixty seconds maybe of terror because for the last minute you're about to land. It can be depending on environmental conditions, it can be quite sporting. Hit right. We have a caller calling in great will the call and uh, caller, welcome to the show. Your first name? And where are you calling from? It sounds like i'd call me, are you weak? Now? This is all I'm the concert form. Hi there, how are you good? Good listening? Hi? Could you ask the your guests our gliders. I've even normally seen it night on. I just saw something as you mentioned new ap like flow over. I'm I'm on the east coast of Florida and I'm by the report. I'm not sure. Okay, what is the question? I think Martini's asking if gliders mostly FLI during the day or at night? Yes, and so I could hear the question. I did not catch your name, but hello from My name is Adney Adam not a glider pilot. Hello, Abner, I am a glider pilot. I've not seen gliders fly at night, except at an air show one time when a glider was towed up intentionally with lights and pyrotechnics, which was quite mesmerizing, and I went to a night air show here at that Marine Corps air station Mirramar some years back. It was quite fun. And other than that, as I understand, most of them fly in the daytime because the gliders are generally unpowered many of them. Some have avionics and radios, but some of them are just old school airframe cables and pollees with a stick and rudder and some pedostatic instruments which don't require power, and so to fly at night you would either need to hold a flashlight to those or have some other systems so you don't get lost or run into something you shouldn't. So, to my knowledge, most glider flying is in the daytime. Also, don't you use some thermal thermal up drafts and a glider generally speaking, yes, can also fly with wind up drafts, which is why you see hang gliders oftentimes at coastal cliffs. Is the way the wind comes off the ocean and goes up those cliffs that can keep hang gliders aloft for long time. All Right, all right, thanks for the call, right, thank you? All right? All right, so yeah, we're we're out to our breaking about four minutes. I do want to make sure though, before you leave, that people can find your podcast and it's a good one, and so go ahead and to give that information out if you would, I appreciate that, Martin. Any podcast player you have should list us. Just look for the Fighter Pilot Podcast. But you can also listen on our website, which is of course Fighter Pilot podcast dot com. And we are on all the usual social media Facebook, Instagram, Patreon, Twitter, YouTube. I recently began a discord channel, and I'm maybe even forgetting some because I've been responding to the interest in the podcast and going where people have asked us to go. So there could be more. But if you look for the Fighter Pilot Podcast, we show up in many different venues. All right now, after you interviewed David Fraber, do you have any more of an interest in looking into aviation regarding UFOs, you know, encounters were there's so many of them. I understand that, Martin, and I feel a little bit badly in this venue saying no, But the truth is no. And I say that because the podcast is about military aircraft, and I always say it's about the aircraft, the weapons systems, and most importantly the people. And in this case, I had a compelling people's story, and many of my listeners had asked me to interview Commander Fraverer, and so I willingly oblige because he's a friend. Anyway, it was good to see him, and I would like to be able to say it's interests me more and to pursue it. But it's a little bit like golf. I've never considered myself a particularly good aviator because I don't play golf, and so I find it difficult to pursue it because there's just no interest. There could there be an interest developed into this, Sure, but there is so much that I'm looking to do with my podcast, and there are so many other topics that I'll probably continue to move on, and if at some point it circles back around or an opportunity presents itself, well sure I won't shun it, but it is not something I intend to actively continue to pursue. Sure, and I didn't. I didn't actually mean that in the podcast way. I just meant that there was a number of aviation related UFO encounters. There's actually been some, you know that I'm going to be talking about with Tyler rogue Away. There was one in Ireland just a few a few weeks ago. I think we have a call coming in see about that, and uh, we just have a couple of minutes. Okay, Uh caller, you're you're on the line here and your first name? And where are you calling from? Brent from North Carolina? Hi there, welcome to the show. We have someone else trying to call into UM. So you have a question for our guests tonight. Yeah, I just wanted to ask him what his opinion UM the recent gun fodder pilot or the gun video of the UAP that rotates untilts and you can hear the pilot's talking about it, just what his opinion on that was. Thanks. That is a nickname. It's called the gimbal Ufo. That was the gamble. That's right right, Hello Brent, and thanks for your question. I don't know very much about it. I did you clear video forward looking in for red of that episode to provide a what I call behind the scenes video on my YouTube channel recently, and I used it mainly to explain what my aviation aficionado listener base was seeing on the flea or display itself, and in fact I incorrectly identified it as the Commander Faber episode, and I believe it was the gimbal one instead. And there again, when you look at the imagery, it is perplexing. I don't know what they were seeing. I don't know how to explain or justify what they said or saw. So it's a mystery to me. And I did not watch the entire bit. I don't know what's available on YouTube, if everything from start to finish is available, But the little bits that I listened to, their responses like check that out, dude, and wow, it's rotating that all sounded very authentic pilots, at least for me. I am. I'm not a good actor. I have learned, and I have a newfound respect for actors and radio hosts like you, Martin and others who do put themselves out in front of people to be interpreted and judged, frankly, and so to me, they sounded very authentic. And I think they weren't sure what they saw either, So I don't know. Is unfortunately your answer Brent? All right, Well, thank you very much. All right, you're welcome, thanks for the call. So why don't you hang in there, And I'm going to go to break right now. So this is Martin Willis. My guest is Vincent a Yellow and we'll be back hopefully with Tyler Rogue away. You know, when did you actually make the decision that you were going to go for this was going to be your thing, all right? Well, As Martin stated at the top of the show, I was taken to an air show at the tender age of eight years old by my stepfather who had just joined the family, and his father had taken him air shows as a child, and what my stepfather enjoyed about them was the technology. He specifically remembers they had an AIM nine sidewinder, which is a heat seeking missile on display, and one of the people explaining it held up a cigarette wider or the cigarette itself, I don't recall, and the missile growled and followed it, and it created an impression in my stepfather's head that he always just enjoyed because he's a technology aficionado. So when he came into the family, he took us to a show. It was at the Naval Air Station in Pointmagoo, California, just north of Malibu, and he enjoyed, still at that point in his life, looking at the technology. But for me, I became smitten with the pilots, between the swagger of the pilots themselves and airplanes that they flew and the noise, and my two older brothers and I began to fly remote control airplanes back when they weren't so popular as they quote unquote drones are now. And so somewhere along the way, I decided this was what I wanted to do with my life. And in high school I tried real hard, was not accepted to the Naval Academy, but I was accepted into an ROTC program, and so I was able to earn a degree from UCLA and a commission into the Navy, and I was able to select for flight school, and in flight school did sufficiently well enough to earn JETS, and after JETS, earned the F eighteen and stayed in the Navy for almost twenty five years A crewed three tho eight hundred flight hours and just loved every minute of it. Had a really good time, over seven hundred care landings on five deployments, plus a bonus deployment on the ground in Afghanistan. And along the way was married that three children, moved many times, and I have no regrets. I enjoyed my career immensely, and I know my children, although they were sad when I would deploy, they also think fondly of our time in the military and the friends we had in the location that's where we left. Wow. Wow same. Hi is this Tyler? Yeah? This is Dye. Hey, hi, Tie, you are on your alive right now? All right, welcome back. We actually have two guests on, Vincent and Tyler Rogue away. He's on the phone. Um, he's joining us. You two can meet via the internet here and h Tyler, why don't you give your background if you would to the listener. Yeah. Good. Be with you guys, and you've got to bear with me. I'm just getting over a cold here, so I might sound like I'm Kermit the Frog. Okay, so hanging there with me. But I run a what's I called the war zone dot com. Um. We do um everything defense, all spectrums of military technology, foreign policy, um, and sort of where those two nexus, the nexus where those two things meet. Um. So really it's it's defense. Reporting has to do with everything from like you know, secretive programs to you know, what's going on in the world at any given time. So that's sort of my background and where I come from on this right and Vince Vincent, I don't know if you want to hang out a little while and sure, it'd be happy to. Okay, that's great, thank you, and uh so Tyler, Um and if I yeah, go ahead, emiliar with your website and I'm impressed. H oh hey, thanks so much man, greatly appreciate it. It's definitely a passionate project and you know, we have a lot of fun with it. But yeah, it's uh, it takes up a lot of time, but we love what we do there. You go. Yeah, and it's very busy. It's a very busy website. Um. And you want to give that out. It's it's the Drive, but it's the war Zone. Is that? How does that work? Yeah? Yeah, so we're we're part of the Drive dot com, which is a transportation vertical. But we have our own your rail at the war Zone dot com and that will take you right to our own our own landing page and you can see what we're up to and uh scroll through some of the older articles as well. Uh huh and uh so, uh Tyler. The guest that I have on now Vincent Yellow. He has the Fighter Fighter pilot podcast and we were actually talking about he interviewed David Fraverer, who had the encounter. UM. It's it's titled now the Nimits Encounter back in two thousand and four. Are you familiar with that particular sighting. Yeah, intimately, especially over the last year since this thing really bulle you know, blew open. UM. Definitely an incredible, incredible encounter, an incredible account, and it's great that we're hearing a little bit more about it every single day. Yes, and the podcast I've listened to the podcast that we're speaking about UM with Vincent and David frav It's very good and uh, a lot of things are revealed in it that normally you wouldn't hear him say on any other show or whatever, because he's talking to another pilot and so it's very interesting. UM. And if you haven't heard it, I U I wou'd say check it out. It's good. UM. So, Tyler, you have written about UFOs have have you had any ridicule for doing that? It seems like that's kind of the topic tonight. UM. People are talking about how David Fraber was harassed and there was you know, a number of things, UM, I think we have a pilot actually calling in by this signal here, So we have a caller joining us here. Hello caller, your first name? Where are you calling from? The first name is command or command of Cobra. I'm calling from someplace in the continentally United States. All are you tonight, mister Martin so commanded Cobra. Uh military pilot. That's uh, that's the subject and a good timing for calling in. Thanks for calling. Hey, my pleasure. So let me tell you who have you been listening to the show? I know you, you know, I know. I'm I'm in a m com situation. I am total radio blocked block out where I'm at right now? Is that right? Okay? Um? So we have Vincent Yellow, Um he is uh, he has the Fighter Pilot podcast. He's here with us. And also Tyler rog Away who writes for the War Zone. Uh. Would I say that, Tyler? Is that the right way to say that? Or do you say the drive? Yeah? Oh yeah, that's fine, Yeah, no, no problem, that's good to go. Yeah. And actually I've been on the Mander Cobras show quite a few couple of times. Oh have you so? Yeah? I can sure Tyler one of my friends. I'm not sure if it's like why me is the same, but I think here him is one of my friends. Ah, okay, definitely have similar interest, that's sure. Yeah. Um so, Cobra, thanks for calling in. Do you have a question for either the UH Vincent or or Tyler in particular? I actually a question. We're both Vincent and Tiled. Good evening. Well. The one thing I would like to start out with this to til Tire. In the last few weeks, you have been even really having a great run with the stories on the page. I look forward to it. It's almost a daily event for me to go through and see what's what's updated. You and Joe have been doing your normal excellent job. I'm curious if you have picked up a lot of response from the Air Force in particular and pilots in general on your coverage that you've been putting on the F thirty five and some of the other I would say transitional issues. One of your latest parts talking about the light attack aircraft probably not being built. Oh yeah, I mean definitely. Yeah. Every day those procurement pieces that we do, which you're pretty hard hearing. You know, we don't hold inning back. We get a lot of feedback from everybody, from people that are our hands on and the kind of gone to people that have had just an interest in it, you know, on a day to day basis, And that's definitely actually how you know, we developed. A lot of our sources are just from people that are interested and you know, I have something to share, something to say, you know, just like to talk to us about what we taught, what we write about on a daily basis. A little bit further, but yeah, definitely all those things are big right now. Obviously there's a lot of money pouring into the DoD with Trump's larger budget. We'll see if that continues this year. But you know, it's especially on the what we can tell also on the black side, on the classified realm. You know, that whole world is going to just be ballooning, especially in the next couple of years as those dollars that have been invested to continue to mature. So we're going to see a lot of new things showing up. And really I mentioned this on a lot of it when I do you know, shows about UFO especially or anything like that, is that people have to realize what they're going to see in the sky, just as bystanders daily daily basis is going to change in the next five to ten years drastically with unmanned warfare and and new concepts and new technologies that are being developed. So when you think you see something, maybe you don't understand it first. There's going to have to be some knowledge education, self education about what really is out there potentially that you know, maybe has a different a different origin than maybe what you do you jump to if you're into this subject matter and you know, so all that goes into it. But yeah, definitely we always get a lot of feedback on a daily basis on that stuff. I'm gonna come back in a second. They Vincent, what's your golfing? Jello Jello boy? Your name sounds really familiar. What did you fly? I flew the FA team mainly. I had a stint flying the F sixteen towards the end of my career. Um, what you are squading about for top Gun? Yes, I was an aggressor pilot at the at the time, naval striking their warfare center and foul in Nevada. And sorry, what was the question? Uh? I was gonna ask you what what was your your VT squadron that you might do for primary Primary was VT two, the doer Birds. Yeah. I was an instructor there from ninety two to ninety six. Well, any time you would have overlapped. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I remember when when Martin said your name. I remember you, M Martin. Connect us up offline and I'll give you the big reveal you'll be You'll probably remember, um, but I'm pretty sure you and I flew together. And I was pretty sure if he said hornets, because I remember you want that way. Um. Two beers. Greg bis Bear was my one of my students. If you remember Greg, he's a Marine F eighteen guy. Greg. What was her name again? Two bevers was his qualifying No, I can't say I do, but my brain is getting worse as I age, so it's possible. Summer I just got to dust it. Duff. Yeah, why did you just come talk to you? Old? Why don't you tell tell the listening audience what David Fraver's name is? Who did you just to I'm asking you? Vincent? Oh? Uh? Sex is his call sign? Yeah? Because it's Central Fravers, David Fravers. That's what is that? How this all works? You you try to find something in their name that you can make. Sometimes a nickname. Sometimes yeah, it's names, or it is something you've done or something you resemble. And I say something deliberately can also be someone, especially movie characters, you never want to And sometimes yeah, I do know some I know a crash, I know a crunch, I know as skids, I know I knew a what was it bam bam or boom boom? Was bam bam? So yeah, you knew some of those and he had one more bam or No, it just means it just means we've lost touch. I also knew a torch. Pretty funny. Uh, yeah, man, Did you have any any other questions for either one of our guests here? Yeah, on Jello, on your case, what did you think of the footage that was released, your opinions of what's come out, and do you think anything else is going to come out in the near future. I was promised the only footage I've seen was apparently from the what did you call it, not the TikTok? What was the other one, Martin? The gimbal from Florida. Gimball was right. I think that's the only one I've seen. So I haven't really had a chance to scrutinize and too much video. But of the gimbal video that I looked at in order to make a YouTube video recently on my channel about the flare itself, frankly, not about UFOs, it looked pretty interesting. It was not clear to me that it was anything masquerading as something else. It looked like something I couldn't tell what it was, and I did not, As I stated a few moments ago, I did not watch the beginning. Oh, I don't know what else was involved, but I do know that the either the pilot or the Whizzo tried different zoom modes and different polarity and the TV mode of the at flare, and at no time did it look like, Okay, now we can tell it's a whatever. It all looked pretty interesting, frankly. All right, So my last thing, it's I guess it's for all three of you, because you gave me a little homework, mister Martin, as we were coming up for the show, and you asked me to look at the Air Force Academy's Physics book. Were talked about UFOs and the physic book in sixty eight. Did you see the answer. I post it back to you. I briefly did it. I had to leave early, so I didn't. I yeah, I guess in general, I'm gonna ask the three of you to discuss this, and I'm gonna actually try to put the app on, but I can hear the answer off air, and I look forward to talking Doll three. You get real soon. Tyler and Joe had had extremely interesting rue of of discussions of things that were flying that they couldn't identify, and they don't appear to be extraterrestrial. They appear to be projects that are out flying, and I'm sure that Joel has got some insights that as well. Where he was spending and operating some of his time, some sensitive aircraft flew. I postulate to you, mister Martin, that one of the reasons I was in there is that the Air Force was using and actively using UFOs as a way to cover in a former deception. It's it's a documented the policy that they had in the sixties and seventies advanced aircraft designs that they kind of co opted the interest and they put a lot of information out there to throw people off. And I'm curious which I guests think about that and if that was the reason why they spoke about it, I had some other information there, but I'm curious what they think of that reaction to that. Which one are you going to take that? Either one of you, I'll I'll grab that one. That's an area that we are going to be really looking into the future, and we actually looking into it right now based on a lot of information and a lot of the initiatives that are coming to light and have come of light in the last year. That is definitely something that I think is just like very much under regarded in the UFO community as far as the relationship between you know, dark programs and for instance, the CIA and everybody else who had assets that they obviously did not want to have disclosed. And what a great cover were anybody that mentions, Hey, I saw this weird thing and it looked like nothing I've seen before, and you just get laughed at. You know, there's no credibility there from the start. That's an incredible asset or incredible embedded like you know, norm to have in our society. If you're trying to keep things that fly secret, now, does that mean that you know that they have the ability to do ant like grabby propulsion everything else. I mean, that's a whole other topic. But I think that keeping the perpetuating the myths side of UFOs right and keeping the our society really you know, a caclimated to laughing at this topic is a very important thing to very powerful people that aren't within the defense industrial complex. And we know that, like you said, we have documentation on that. That isn't my opinion, that isn't your opinion, And I think going forward, that's something we all have to keep in our minds when we see all the you know, new information come out of sightings, because it's definitely, like I say, what is flying today in the next ten years is going to look very different than what we've seen flying for the last fifty years. And with that, depending on if they want that that information disclosed or not on a what level, always being into the fault like hut, oh, this guy saw UFO, You know what a jackass. You know, that is a really powerful tool for them to have in their toolbag if they need to deny or deflect when it comes to disclosing a certain program that may be sensitive. Interesting. You have any thoughts on that Vincent. Well, like I said earlier, Martin, it's so difficult for people to keep a story straight. And if there is a program that said, hey, we're going to use this affinity for people to wonder about something and perpetuate that to hide what we're doing, it sounds fine and good. I guess if they must have done it pretty well, because you would think that it would be a little more known on that. Oh yeah, that for a while that picture from Roswell or something I don't know is turned out to be an F one seventeen or it turned out to be something else. There's still an element of this that suggests that not everything has been disclosed, and there are still some things that are being covered, and if so, good on them. But in my experience, it's been very difficult to keep secrets. Now that being said, I am doing my best on my podcast to continue to keep the secrets that I've been privy to. And so I guess it's a little bit of a circular error or a circular argument I'm making, But I just feel like certain things are just difficult to keep covered up for very long when too many people are involved. So I don't know, good one well gentlemen, it's it's in a pleasure as always. Uh, mister Willis, I deeply appreciate having a couple of minutes to chat with you. You're a good friend Tyler as well. And Jella, we have to we're gonna tie up again. It's still a long time since I saw you on the flight line at whiting Field, and I look forward to your website. So I'll have Martin dow a connection first. And Tyler, I'm going to beg you to come on the show not to distant future. We'll make it happen, all right, all right, you guys, be good. Congratulations happen twenty nineteen, toll of you. All right, same view cover, take care, good night. Tyler. I'm gonna ask you, do you do you have a well? Do you have a question for Vincent? You know I don't have something else caught in my hands. I talked to pilots so often, you know, I think I've gone through my rolodex of questions a million times over. I think it's cool that he is he's interested in this, because you know, I think everybody and I when you've asked me earlier about getting a crap for reporting on UFOs when there's not the topic that I do on a daily basis at all. And I truly believe that I've always had a fascination with a topic and I'm you know, I'm a skeptic, you know, I'm not here to promote something as real because I have an intuition about I need information. I'm still not sold on a lot of things. But that being said, I think anybody that's in the aerospace world, man, if they don't have an interest in this, if this isn't something at least they like, you know, they have just like a tacit interest and think it's cool to think what if, you know, then that's somebody that I really haven't met. I mean, maybe they don't talk about it a lot, but it seems like there's always, you know, some sort of interest in it, but they don't talk about it. You know, it's something that they're not really apt to come out and say, hey, you know, I think this is even cool and I think it's worth talking about it. And I've been, you know, like the other guests here. You know, I've been flying you know, horn it's for X amount of years, and I'm interested in it, and I think it's a cool top to discuss breaking down those walls are are going to be what's key. Um. So you know, I think it's really cool that you're here and that you're you're discussing it with us, and uh and that that's a really good step in the right direction in a lot of ways. I will tell you this, Tyler Um, before he interviewed David Fraber, Um, he basically had, you know, just thought that you know, wacko saw UFOs. He had no idea, but because he knew David Um from before and and then you know, did an eye to eye interview. UM, he totally you know, believes that David saw something very unusual and that that's uh, under exaggerating it. Really no, not at all there. I believe there are people who saw things unusual, as you put it, and that they don't know what it is. I have no doubt about that. I'm certainly not prepared to say that they're wrong, or to explain what they saw, or to agree that it's from another universe or a galaxy or whatever. Yeah. Um, and and Tyler, can you just can you explain about I believe you were the first one to get the radio recordings of an encounter. Can you remind me which one that was? Because I know those what there was one go Ahead, there was the Amozone one, and then there was the the Oregon one. So um, the Oregon one was really unique because we just didn't get the you know, the ATC audio UM we are FOY request and some of the work we did ended up giving us a troupe of information that was like unheard of. I mean, we had all the calls between FAA administrators um and in real time, and and we had the investigations with the pilots, all the audio on it so as well as the radar data and some of the staple stuff that you see. And the big takeaway I tell people on this and then, like I say, it's something that's really not convenient for a lot of people that are really enthusiastic about this topic is that it's very clear that the FAA this is a very rare account, a rare occurrence for the FAA, something that's like seen by multiple people that happens over a long period of time and where you know it can be investigated and the military is involved. It's not something that happens all the time. We know that because we have the calls with Quality Control back in DC, and they don't even know how to classify what is really a very interesting event but also a fairly basic event. So it's not like these are happening every day and everything that you know, they're just they're covering all this stuff. It's rare. And that's what made that account and all that information we got so rate is because we know it was a rare event and we know so much about it. Can you can you tell the story of what actually happened. Yeah, So it was an end of October I think it's October twenty fifth, twenty seventeen. UM, there was a object that showed up on Oakland Center's radar. Then they called it, you know, a fast mover. It was moving very we don't know how fast really, but the point to the point that the ATC, the guy that was there at the terminal control, he was like stunned by it, and um, it was moving to the south. Then it took a very hard right to the north and started speed speeding kind of toward the Oregon border. And by the time by the time the sort of you know, they reacted to it, this craft was flying kind of by Crater Lake area, Clamath Falls, Crater Lake area, and other aircraft, like three other aircraft seven thirty sevens, you know, airliners pilots who were looking at it, and it was cruising along a little bit faster than they were up in the flight levels above them, and they couldn't make it out what it was. Aside from that it was white, and from the investigations we know there's a pilots. It was much larger than like a lerid jet. It was the size of a large airliner. And this went on. It's not like they just saw it and disappeared. It continued on as they moved up to Waramted Valley and by the time it sort of approached the Portland area past Eugene. If you're familiar with kind of that I five corridor, the F fIF teams out of Portland, which you know is a top unit there, an air defense unit that there's a really good hardware too. I mean, they're they're highly equipped for the Noble Eagle Air Sovereignty mission. They launched on alert and by this time these airplanes that were watching this thing, it was getting dark, so you know, they were kind of losing it as it was, you know, the sun was setting and they were starting to send into Portland, so this thing kept moving north by all accounts, and it was it was not tracked on radar past that first moment. Everybody was looking for it. The military was looking for it, the FA was looking for it, and they could not see it. It didn't even show up as a primary on radar. So over that whole time, not intermittently that whole time. And so by the time the F fifteens went up and scrambled, um, they could only really set up a combat air patrol like just north of the city kind of over Vancouver and you know, look around with it with their radars and see if they could find anything, and they couldn't find anything at all. And that and literally that is the story, I mean, with some a lot of little details in between, but that is what happened. And it happened. Um, it's not wasn't you know, some balloon or anything like this. This this this is real. This is this happened. And the military, even NORAD which we talked to, which is not subject to freedom of information active quests, so a little bit different how you got to handle them and work with them, and usually they're really cool to work with. You know. They were the first to tell me on the phone. They're like, hey, yeah, we don't know what it was. It was white, and we scrambled confined it and eventually the FA confirmed it and that's when we ran with the story and started building it out. But what happened when once we got all the FA information had totally changed and it became a much more deep event. You know, we could really feel how unique this was, and it was a really cool opportunity for us to pull back that curtain and really show people the reality of what this looks like, you know, not the TV version, not the movie version, really what happens when something is unidentified and detected in airspace and seen by multiple trained observers, people that have your in my lives and their hands on a daily basis flying us around the United States. And so yeah, it was a really cool event and we were very lucky to have the information we had on right. Wow, very interesting. Well, I want to I want to thank you Vincent for hanging in UM for extra time here. I really do appreciate it. And so people can check out your podcast and say it one more time how they can find it. You're welcome, Martin. It's been fun being here with you today and nice to meet Tyler Rogaway. My podcast is thanks very much. It is Fighter Pilot Podcast dot com. Excellent. All right, Okay, thanks a lot, Vincent. I really had a good time and I appreciate you coming on the show. You're welcome. It was my pleasure, all right. Okay, So um, Tyler, um, let's see when when a plane is actually like a commercial plane or even a private plane, do they have do they have a transponder or some way to know that it's actually a plane instead of you know, just an unknown right, Yeah, absolutely, there's a transpounder that gives them the altitude the aircraft, you know, gives the basic information about what the aircraft is. Otherwise without that that that system is off. At best, they have a primary contact, which usually just gives them a position, and you know, a primary radar like that. It's not perfect. So even non stealthy targets can be intermittent, you know, you can environmental factors and limitations of the gear, etc. Can interfere sometimes with having a really steady blip on a radar of an aircraft. Okay, but what made this so interesting is not only did not have a transpounder and it was not communicating because Nordo was not communicating with FA aircraft controllers or any aircraft around it. But once it disappeared off radar after that first you know, like I say that real Fast moved south over northern California, it was gone. It did not exist on radar at all. They could not get it. And you hear in the tapes the FAA and the military talking about trying to look for it, getting even just getting a primary return on it, and they can't. So what they did was they use the airliners in the vicinity to give them, you know, updates and reports on what they could see. Um. And you know, they're not like your past guest here. You know, they're not in then F eighteen or on F fifteen or they you go and check the thing out. I mean, they could, but that's probably that's it's not a good decision, especially when you don't know what it is. Right. Um, So you're limited sort of to you know, Okay, carry on your path, give us a report of what you see, and we'll try to keep a location on the object. That way. So yeah, it was very much an eyewitness account after the first initial contact on radar, and it did not have a transpounder I don't believe at that time either there was no I don't believe there was a transpounder signal at the time. And recently you did a really nice article. Um, I don't know if it was you or your partner there, one of your coworkers wrote on the Irish um on the Irish encounter. Um was that you that wrote that? Yeah? Yeah, and we were together. Um, we did some quick research on that deal. Um. Yeah, that was that was a wild one. I mean, that was one that uh, you know, once again, trained observers you have and and not I mean when you talk about pilots are all great, you know, I'm not saying that you know that there's any difference really, but these are intern you know, international flights that are flying mainly so so these are really experienced air crews that were that were flying you know, crossing the Atlantic to you know, go ahead to Europe or whatever that saw this you know craft and multiple angles of it or whatever it was. Um. And you know, that was another one of those things that we've we've looked into afterwards. But um, we're dealing with uh, you know, Ireland and their rules and everything else. It's a little bit different, um than getting information out of it than you know, what we know here with the FAA, which is actually FA is pretty cool about working with us. And I can't give those guys a high five enough really because they haven't generally there's been some hiccups. But we had a thing even over Long Island. Another thing that I reported on that I found the aircrew and talked to them about what they saw. That was a smaller point. I saw a very bright light over Long Island, very congested are oh yeah, yeah, And you know FA usually, you know, if it's not logged like this. This Oregon thing was a bigger deal. But like the Arizona thing, that was my story. You know, everybody stole it, but that was us. We did that. We recreated, forensically, recreated a flight and found out where it was when it was, went to the FAA and said, we want the tape because we know, we think that there was a sighting by multiple aircraft of an unidentified aircraft or flying object of some sort at very high altitudes meaning add or above airliner traffic levels for flight levels thirty five thousand plus and uh, you know Albuquerque Center, the main guy there. Oh yeah, I mean that that audio immediately and you know they knew who we were and they've been awesome. Well that's so. Have you a typical or it has not. You probably know this, and I'm sorry. I didn't mean to step over what you were saying there. Um, but it has been like pulling teeth when it comes to the FAA in the past. So I think there's there's that must be some type of change, or perhaps they just respect what you're doing and they will, um, you know, they will be more leaning with you than they will you know, the average joe out there. You know, I can't I can't, um, you know answer that. I don't know for sure, but you know, I just tell them, listen, you can give it to us, or we can avoid it. We can go through the process. I just don't want to waste your time doing that because it's just atc Audio. It's not you know, it's not like classified material or that you need to be you know, the glass like I'm just you know, when it comes to all this, like when I and I did, I followed this my whole life. I've been interested in it. And you know, also because of the military side of it, right, because in multiple ways. Um. Because sometimes when people see could be built you know, defense projects and not you know, UFOs in the classical sense. Um. But I really, I'm really going to tell you, like the community hurts itself more than it helps itself in most ways. I hate to say it. I say this in every radio show I'm on. You know, Yeah, they just they don't, you know, instead of I get a lot of correspond from people about this topic, and a lot of it is very aggressive, very you know, like this is you know, it's a viewpoint that they're not They're only willing to look at. And I think that comes through as well when people want to go and talk to the government about it and say, hey, you know, we like to know more about this. It helps that I'm a defense writer and I know how that world works a little bit, and you know, when they go to my site, they don't see UFOs. They see you know, military news, defense news, technology news, all that all that goes into it, probably you know, But I like it'd be nice if they treated everybody the same. But I'm gonna tell anybody that's out there listening to your show that maybe has an instant that they're interested in and that they'd like to go and you know, ask about like, just be as professional as possible, you know, be as respectful and professional as possible. Do not do not tell them what this was, Do not bring anything else into it. And I think you're gonna have a better shot. And they're taking you seriously and getting some good data that maybe will change your perspective of what happened that event. And there's also many tools out there, guys, many tools out there now that there weren't, you know, ten years ago when it comes to just tracking air traffic that you can use when you see something weird in the sky and you just want to say, gosh, what was that? You can go to flight RATEAR twenty four and you can go and roll back. You know it's all the transpounder signals at that time and you're a and visually see it. You know. I want to bring this up. I think this is really important. Debunking is the most powerful thing anybody can do on this topic. If you can go and say this was a military aircraft, here's why you're wrong or this was a play on light. This is the most powerful tool because there's enough weird stuff that we have not been able to explain that if you waste time and try to push things that are explainable, it makes you incredible. I know that's you're my new friend because I feel exactly the same way. And you know, a lot of people seem to bash the people that are actually have an explanation. I want to tell a real quick story about that, and that is uh in Utah. I believe it was Utah. Recently, there was some filmmakers filming with a drone and they filmed this unusual object and uh, you know went it went semi lad have to say and uh Mark Diantonio, he's a video analysts, he's also a special effects guy and uh and a friend and he said, you know, I believe it's either a falcon or a hawk chasing the drone. And he went into all these different graphs. It was very thorough and you know, UM, a lot of people came back and they said, well, you know what, I believe he's right. Wouldn't the bottom line is, wouldn't we rather know than um to carry on like like you were saying, there's enough weird stuff out there, um to not have to worry about um, you know, hanging onto the belief of something just because it's it's hard to identify it first. Yeah, and everybody I found there's a huge issue with this community that so many people want to have some special connection to it. They wanted to Oh this happened to me, and I had, you know, I had this experience. Man. I have been shooting aircraft. I'm a photographer, you know, pretty well accomplished in this field only aviation. Okay, I've been looking in the sky with high powered high you know, expensive gear at military bases around the United States for years. Okay, every aircraft you can imagine. And I've never seen one thing I could not explain. Okay, not one. And that's not saying that there aren't. I think that, you know, obviously, while I'm on your show, I think there are, and I just I report on these things, so um, there are. I'm just saying that, Like, I get a lot of pushback from people that want to have their experience validated. And if you say anything that isn't Like you just mentioned that Drune video, I said the exact same thing. Saw them in social media and Twitter. I said, man's a bird flying up the camera. I look at video all the time. It's nothing. It was just like a little thing, a little sparrow or hawk or something flying at the camera. Yeah, move on, you know instead, you know it's as aggressive, a real quick thing. I wanted to share about this, and I think, I think this validates everything that we're talking about. There was I woke up one morning and there was all these tweets about a potential missile launch over with the island. I'm from the Pacific Northwest, Okay, that's up north of Seattle in Washington. Beautiful place in the Pugets down there. Oh yeah, and yeah, yeah yeah. And there's this guy on had a really nice weather station, right, credible guy, not some weirdo guy that makes things up, and he caught something that looked really amazing on a weather station camera. And I first looked at it and I said, oh my god, that looks like a missile launch. Now, there's nothing up there that launches missiles. There's no rocket launches. People have no idea what it takes to actually pull that off or do that where it wouldn't be noticed by the whole community immediately. I mean so immediately. This is what I do. I debunked. That's that's our job, that's our best suppost to do or debunk post. So we leaped into it, and within six hours I had totally solved that meal and had actually gone found out the aircraft that flew over talked to had the business that owned it. It was an air ambulance helicopter. Talked to the pilots to find the light configuration of the aircraft, and it all lined up as well as just my knowledge of photography and doing time last photography, you know, mastering that art, which is a hard art to master time last night photography. So we totally looked debunked this. This was totally debunked. This was a helicopter that flew over, and it's an optical illusion on the camera with how it looks like a missile being launched. Okay, I mean one hundred percent I could recreate if I had to. Okay, And the blowback was like worse than anything I've ever seen on any post, probably any political post I've ever done. I know it was. It was threats being you know deep state. This you can't imagine. And it wasn't. This wasn't UFO people. Okay, this wasn't the people that are into this topic. This was another subset that were mainly into this. But the reality is people don't like having what they think is something really special if they have an insight connection to being told it's not real and having evidence to support it. For the UFO community, that needs to be totally embraced. That is that should be the modus oper run day that if it can be thrown out in any way, it is, and we move on to those experiences, those things that happen that truly have no explanation, and then we know there could be something larger there. Well, it's just and the problem go ahead, go ahead, sorry, oh so, And my final point is is the problem is it's like I don't get paid to write books about UFOs. You know, I get paid report on stuff that's truthful the best of my ability. Nobody's perfect. I do my very best. Okay. Yeah, Well, you know this community is infested with people that make money on it, that permatuating. Yeah, that may be a little bit. There's a few that make money on it. There's not too many people that make money on it. There's a lot of people trying to but that that always can muddy the water and make things more sensational. And you know, I've seen some cases it could because you're successful. It could be that you're just really good at your job and you do a great job, you deserve all the money in the world. Yeah. But where I have a problem with is when I see I see guys that are very good at this, that are very big names in this community, if they're on TV a lot, okay, and they push stuff that if I if I didn't have the knowledge I do about the history of Condestine programs, especially at an area fifty one man, I would believe this. I would say, my gosh, this is amazing. This is a death confession of UFOs and the walking Skunk Works is involved in. I would believe it. It's that good. But when you go to a specialist look side it, it's absolute crap. It's just it's just jump. It's just perpetuating a bunch of stuff down online that doesn't even even line up with things that we know about in history. So I'm passionate about this because I think that if this is ever to be taken seriously and people they're ever to were engaged, and we actually get somewhere with this, With this topic, we're going to need to be skeptics first and believers second. And no matter where, no matter where the cards fall, maybe it's maybe the answer isn't what you wanted. The truth is what matters. That's right, and there worse, you know, I'll point this out at in Project Bluebook, out of the ten thousand cases, there were seven hundred that they just could not explain. And so there are there is enough out there now I would I would suggest not to use the word debunk so much. Explain is actually a better word for it. Um, debunking I think, you know, even though as you're using it properly, it has kind of a bad connotation. And um, but when you're explaining something that you know, what I what I consider debunking. That phrase used more for if if someone is hoaxing, and then you can debunk that. There you can debunk that it's a hoax, you know, that type of thing. But when you explain something that's unidentified, that's uh to me. Um, you know, being skeptic and taking a real look at it and making sure you're understanding what it is. Um, you know, I agree wholeheartedly that you know, whatever the truth, whatever the evidence actually leads, that's what That's what it really is. And why try to pretend it's anything else. Yeah, And I think you're totally right on terminology. I think we need to people that are interesting this have to work together to come up with good terminology, right that isn't insulting to people. We don't want people not to come forward, we don't want people not to share and you know, unique experiences. Um, it's just if this is just from my reaction from being somebody that has taken the risks to go into this realm, and it's been one hundred percent good. I've never had one thing. I've never had with a whole some of the crazy emails and corrrespondence and everything else that's come from this, I've never had anybody question me or like it's never damaged anything that I do or anything like that. You mentioned that at the very start of the show. And and like I say, if it's done right, if you do, if you work this topic correctly, and you just go after the effects and you just display them for people, and you just you know, let's let that fall where it may. It's a totally different reaction than predisposition and talking like basically to acquire I want to get people interested in the topic that that aren't you know that that's my goal, you know, is to get people that say, oh man, this is junk and you know, this is all just stuff men in black movie, you know, Hollywood stuff. I like to have people open their mind a little bit, you know, and it seems to work. So there is a way to do it. I really believe it. And I to other reporters out there that stay away from it, you know, or always write a report about it with a laugh at the end, which is what we see mainly, right, that's not reporting. Yeah, you know, you should never written that report. If it's a joke, that's right. You should never should have never done that, you know. And that's just the same way. And you know a news report where at the end they'll play X files music, you know, the same sameer boy. Yeah, Leslie Kane, Um. I speak with her, um, you know, fairly often recently as well. And she are you familiar with who Leslie Kane is? I'm not. She wrote a really good book, Um, called boy. I'm gonna get this wrong because I I just do that General's Pilots in m hmmm, uh, Leslie, she's a journalist. She actually is one of the three that broke the story of the in December sixteenth about the Pentagon's search for UFOs her. Oh right, I know you're talking about. Yes, I'm very aware of her work. Yeah, she's done some other stuff. She did in the area fifty one book I believe because that's the same person. No, the one Mr Her book that really she's known for the most is General's Pilots and the government officials go on the record UFOs and the forwards by John Podesta. So that's the one she's mostly known for. But she shares exactly what you were saying, m as far as the philosophy about approaching this subject very very carefully, and she has been, you know, trying to work with people in Washington, and she's extremely careful. And I brought this up also with Vincent ahead of you. And that is the term has used UAP instead of UFOs because of you know, ufosum seemed to be associated with a little green man and you know, what do you think? No, I mean there's definitely a connotation there. You know. That was one thing with afraid to use I'll be totally honest with your listenership here. When I started, you know, taking the risk to do this stuff, I said, man, I just can't put you a phone in there, you know, I just can't do it. And after um, after a couple of the pieces, I think I think the Arizona piece was the one that I did. I used it and I thought I'm gonna push back from miss I got none. Because it's what matters is the facts. If you don't sell it as something, you don't try to make a conclusion, you know, people can overlook even you know, bad terminology or everything else. But yeah, that's definitely part of it, you know. Um, you know. But also we're living at the time now where you know, we have this to the Stars thing happening. UM, there's a lot going on with that. I'm very interested in skeptical about UM. And you know we're gonna be working on that a little bit in the future. Yeah, you know, it's good that there's Yeah, I hear I get a lot of email about To the Stars Academy UM with aired opinions and uh, one of my listeners is actually um, he toured with a Blank for several years and he's a friend of Tom Delongs and said, you want me to get him for the show. He won't. He won't be on the show. I mean that's he's told not to do any shows after he did one with Joe. Um. Who am I thinking here, Rogan? Yes, yeah, I watched that so not good. It was not good. It didn't help them any Um. As an outsider, someone that's not actually in the UFO field, what what do you think about in general? About um, what they're trying to do there. Hey, listen, I think it's cool, but they're invested in this topic. You know. I think it's good. Good for Tom too. You know, he he found a passion that he wants to explore. And I'm that's that's everything in life, right, So you know, I'm nothing about the people involved, and they all seem like dam they've got great people on that team. Um, you know everything else. But you know, I just am skeptical about a lot of things that Hal came about. And you know, I really don't want to say too much this time because it's something that we're gonna be developing in the future. Um, it's just to me, it's to me it seems a bit odd. But in fact, even the A Tip program seems very odd and it goes there's some common themes that run from that A Tip for their origins of the A Tip program, through the to the Stars Academy, in that whole back story and on um that I found very interesting I think need to be looked into. But um, we'll see what happens. You know, they've claimed a lot haven't seen anything. Um, if if I had material from a spacecraft potentially you know, something that we keep hearing or some non material, man, I'm taking that under under guard to a lab getting basic results done, and if they're abnormal, I am disclosing that immediately to major networks. Well you know what I mean. We have a party, We have someone actually listening to the show right now that I know is involved in something like that that we are going to know about this year the results of of what they determine, which I think is fascinating. You know. Of course we all have to be skeptic until um, you know, and just because something's unusual doesn't mean that it it uh, you know, came from outer space. But h but it could. I mean, there's possibilities. I think, like I think there's delivering needs to deliver more now, you know, because there's a just a lot of hype about it. There's just they've hype themselves up a lot, which is great. Listen. I don't want to be critical of them and their operation like that. I'm just telling you stuff that that red flags for me from doing being a journalist, you know, doing what I do. You know, it's just stuff that doesn't make sense. Lots of big claims that you know that there's all this stuff and things take time. I understand that for sure, but um, you know, it'd be nice to see more. Um beyond that, I think that as far as that, let's like that to the Star's idea, you know, I'm I'm a kind of problem with the name. I got a problem with the fact that they're winding entertainment into it. Yeah. That did really destroys credibility to me, and I get it. You need to pay for this stuff. It is. You know a lot of people think that's very strange. Yes, you're not alone in that thought, but yeah, they do. They do have to raise funds now, we only have about a minute and a half here or just just over a minute. Can you just for the listener out there, can you tell them some of the stories that you have reported on in a quick nutshell that you can get done in about a minute. Well, yeah, I mean for the for this whole world that we're talking about. Definitely the organ sighting that is follow up on that FAA. The Arizona one was pretty big. We did the Long Island one, and we've stayed pretty good on this. Um. The Nimits encounter in two thousand and four with the you know, the so called tik tac. We'll probably going to be revisiting that. But I'm really there's so many people that are on that I'm going to be recapping more than anything else. Um, but there's some interesting areas. The main thing I get asked is do you think this thing is extraterrestio? You guys, I'm not gonna fit leave your audience with this. The government has spent billions and billions and billions dollars a year in black budget programs for the better part of a century. Okay, eventually you're going to get some really incredible technology out of that, and some of that stuff is not going to be gonna be probably so incredible you don't want to even use it. Okay, So keep your mind open that even these extreme capabilities that these crafts are supposedly able to do, I'm not here to tell you like people say, oh, we don't have it from like looking into this particular world, like the Black Project world for so long, there's no way I can tell you that. Right. In fact, we have to have you one again. It's too short. We're out of time. So hey, thanks so much, and you go to the Drive or the war Zone. They can find your stories right absolutely, and hey, thanks for one with the like I say, they crumbered the frog and heavy breathing here. So next time we'll be a little bit clearer for you. All right, all right, Tyler, thanks so much and talk to you all right YouTube. Good bye? All right, everyone, So that's it for the show. I want to thank everyone that's helped out with the show. And also next week we're going to be talking more about this. We're gonna have Robert Powell on talking about the Nimits. I want to also thank you with the listener and people over at YouTube and over at the Dark Mendow Digital Network. Everyone and remember keep your eyes to the sky.