1 00:00:08,519 --> 00:00:13,080 Good afternoon. You're listening to Gambling with an Edge. Now here are your 2 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:18,679 host Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin. Good afternoon, Welcome to Gambling with an 3 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:24,640 Edge on Bob Dancer and I'm Richard Munchkin. Today we have three guests, 4 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:36,200 Colin Jones from Black Chack Apprenticeship, Darryl Purpose from Ben Munchkin's gambling partner for 5 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:43,560 forty years, and Burning down the House, who is from Black Chack Apprenticeships 6 00:00:43,679 --> 00:00:49,840 Stable, so to speak. We're going to be talking about black jack. 7 00:00:50,799 --> 00:00:54,920 So, gentlemen, thank you for being here, Welcome to Gambling with an 8 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,960 Edge. Thanks for having us. Nice to be here, yeah, happy 9 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,799 to be here, all right. So what's new and different in the blackcheck 10 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,359 world? You should? You should ask burning down the House. He's playing 11 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,719 a lot more than I do. He's out there hitting, hitting the tables 12 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:15,560 hard. Yeah. Actually, I want to say that we've done blackcheck round 13 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,959 tables in the past, and so I wanted to before we end Gambling with 14 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:26,680 an Edge, I wanted to have somebody burning down the House is out there 15 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,719 playing one hundred, one hundred hours a month, still just counting cards, 16 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,040 I think, just counting cards. I want to ask him that, and 17 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:41,480 Daryl started forty five years ago, and um, and so I want to 18 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:46,719 talk about how things have changed. I just realized that it was fifty years 19 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:51,319 ago this year that my mother put the book Beat the Dealer in my Christmas 20 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:57,239 stocking and the rest is history, right right, right? So yeah, 21 00:01:57,239 --> 00:02:01,319 why don't we start with you burning on the house? Uh, what's going 22 00:02:01,359 --> 00:02:07,560 on out there these days? Well, I gotta say my fam of reference 23 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:14,159 seems pretty shallow after Darryl just mentioned fifty years longer than I've been around. 24 00:02:14,199 --> 00:02:19,000 But uh, um, you know, it's it's it's a grind, It's 25 00:02:19,319 --> 00:02:22,000 it's a lot of hard work. You know. I get people messaging me 26 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,759 on BJ all the time asking how do you do it? And sometimes on 27 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,520 trips, I don't even I don't even know how I do it. You 28 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,879 know. It's back off after back off and straight into a trespass into this. 29 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:37,439 It's uh, there are there are many beatable games out there. You 30 00:02:37,479 --> 00:02:39,919 can there's no shortage of that. Um, you know, I think, 31 00:02:40,039 --> 00:02:44,319 uh, I think facial recognition and different things like that got kicked in the 32 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,520 high gear, especially so many people took advance of it straight out of twenty 33 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:51,560 twenty with the face masks and got extra time and now I feel like the 34 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,879 casinos are really flyer happy and different things like that. But you know, 35 00:02:57,479 --> 00:03:00,719 with with with all things, it's it's it's it's a lot of hard, 36 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,639 hard work. It's a lot of travel. Uh, it's you know, 37 00:03:05,159 --> 00:03:07,199 got on top of that, dealing with working for three months and losing one 38 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:13,400 hundred K or sixty k or you know whatever your stakes are. But um, 39 00:03:13,439 --> 00:03:19,159 but it is definitely still doable. And I managed to bring my family 40 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:23,159 along for most of it, so even you know, racking up higher expenses, 41 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:27,759 I'm still able to make a very good income off of card counting. 42 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,360 But it's there's no you know, like everything else, if you want to 43 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,680 be successful, I mean, you really gotta you really got to put in 44 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,800 the effort. Oh go ahead, Daryl, I was just gonna say, 45 00:03:38,919 --> 00:03:42,599 burn it. Tell if you did what you're doing right now and just kept 46 00:03:42,599 --> 00:03:46,120 doing it month after month after month, how long would it be before there 47 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:52,719 would be you'd be really be burned out. I am burnt out, okay, 48 00:03:53,479 --> 00:03:57,719 I mean I mean to play or burnt out like most like I mean 49 00:03:57,759 --> 00:04:01,240 places to play. But I'm interested in the other question as well places to 50 00:04:01,319 --> 00:04:05,919 play. That's interesting. I've you know, I don't really keep exact numbers 51 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:12,719 on the number of actual completely burnt trespass casinos. Um. You know. 52 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,639 But but you have been going three straight years of one hundred hours a month, 53 00:04:16,759 --> 00:04:21,560 right, Well, yeah, I've I've fallen a little short. So 54 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,240 basically I shoot for one hundred hours a month, but the annual goal is 55 00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:30,639 a thousand hours a year. Um. I usually follow a little short of 56 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:32,720 a thousand hours a year, but this year alone, I have like three 57 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:38,720 hundred and seventy hours up to this point, so I'm actually really on track 58 00:04:38,759 --> 00:04:41,360 for one hundred hours a month. Um. But yeah, it is, 59 00:04:41,439 --> 00:04:45,720 it is doable. It's doable, and it's you know, it's it's it's 60 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,000 just tough work. But yeah, you can definitely do it. I do 61 00:04:47,079 --> 00:04:54,240 it. I make I make money of you know, a specialized college degree, 62 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,439 maybe even like a doctorate. And I've I've never I didn't go to 63 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,480 college, so you know, I came out of being a professional musician. 64 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,519 Um, So to me, the stress and the income uh is still you 65 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:12,680 know, something that's worth it and just straight counting, just counting. Yeah, 66 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,839 I got introduced to a promotion through machine play once and I ended up 67 00:05:17,879 --> 00:05:24,399 losing money and getting trespassed from the whole you knows, and pretty much my 68 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:28,519 own my only, uh my only experience doing something outside of card counting. 69 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,560 You know, I know the basic strategy to whole carding, and I've done 70 00:05:30,759 --> 00:05:34,480 whole carding a few times that I've found it, but usually it's been that 71 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,680 session they've already corrected it, so never I haven't personally found I know other 72 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:45,199 people have, but I personally have many like lastable lasting whole card games. 73 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,040 But it's strictly, yeah, just straight up card counting, your your hours 74 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:54,800 count scouting and backcounting. They do not. So that's on the table. 75 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,800 That's on the table. Yeah, okay, yeah, And and your approach 76 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,279 is basically put it in their face, no cover that as little as possible. 77 00:06:04,439 --> 00:06:09,160 Well, and then last I heard, you were maxing out at two 78 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,360 hands of a thousand, Um, do you go any more than that now? 79 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,399 Or or you go? So yeah, I was recently in the UK 80 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,319 maxing out at two by h two by a thousand pounds, which you know 81 00:06:21,439 --> 00:06:26,240 is technically more like two by twelve hundred, So I guess that's kind of 82 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,240 the highest I've I've done I've done two by fifteen hundred a few sessions and 83 00:06:30,399 --> 00:06:35,879 got absolutely slaughtered and then backed off. But uh but I yeah, I 84 00:06:36,319 --> 00:06:40,519 so I'm bringing out So I used to max out a two by five hundred, 85 00:06:40,519 --> 00:06:44,519 but now I'll I'll bring out out of a true three and then kind 86 00:06:44,519 --> 00:06:47,079 of like bring out two by a thousand at a true five or two six. 87 00:06:47,519 --> 00:06:53,480 So uh my, my so far my career has always been kind of 88 00:06:53,519 --> 00:06:57,759 like the next level of of max bets, all put way out there, 89 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,959 like maybe you've been out of true eight or nine, and then I just 90 00:07:00,079 --> 00:07:03,240 slowly bring it down just to kind of help get myself ready for swings. 91 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:08,759 It's it's pretty amazing what variance can do. Just moving your max bets down 92 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,839 one true count. It's pretty it's pretty drastic from what I've noticed. So 93 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:15,879 that's always been my technique, is it kind of when I want to brace 94 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,439 myself or get myself used to swings, hire max bet, I put them 95 00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:24,600 way high in a high count, slowly move them down as my bankroll grows, 96 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,199 and also, you know, as my stomach thickens, I guess from 97 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,759 the swings. So, Daryl, when you first started, I mean very 98 00:07:31,839 --> 00:07:36,120 quickly you got onto the Ken Houston team. And was your approach the same 99 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:41,759 kind of thing to, you know, go minimum to maximum basically, or 100 00:07:41,839 --> 00:07:46,560 did you guys try to play some cover. Well? When I, you 101 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,360 know, I went to Las Vegas, I had just started practicing in my 102 00:07:48,399 --> 00:07:54,040 apartment and I just I practiced, you know, ten hours a day and 103 00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:59,240 more for many many weeks. I got my ten thousand hours and really quickly, 104 00:07:59,279 --> 00:08:01,600 and I met a guy who knew a guy, and I got a 105 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,759 tryout for the Ken Euston team, right. And they had been doing this, 106 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,199 uh, they had been counting cards in their way. And I went 107 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,560 to this meeting at the Jockey Club on this strip, and I guess I 108 00:08:13,639 --> 00:08:16,360 was going to be tested, you know, I was a teenager. And 109 00:08:16,399 --> 00:08:18,000 they handed me a deck of cards. They said, count this down. 110 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,720 So I counted down. I realized they were timing me, and I stopped 111 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,000 and they said that's ten seconds. And I said, is that good? 112 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:31,519 And they said that's the fastest we've ever seen and so and so they fired 113 00:08:31,679 --> 00:08:39,200 all their other counters. The Ken Houston team fired their other counters and they 114 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:43,200 hired me and Craig Brennan, who you know, and we became the card 115 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,559 counters, and we went right into a big player thing where we'd sit on 116 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,080 a table and we would you know, try to go and notice spect the 117 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,759 minimum and call plays for the big player on the other end of the table. 118 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,039 Actually, you guys were that song, you probably would go because the 119 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,480 big player was considerably older than you. Right, So that's right, So 120 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:11,039 that must have worked really well in the beginning. Well, they put me 121 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:16,360 with some people that were pretty heated up, so it didn't actually go like 122 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:22,879 Ken right, who had written a book by that point explaining the move with 123 00:09:22,879 --> 00:09:28,080 his picture, you know, yeah, yeah, and this wasn't It was 124 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,799 a little different. You know. They did the BP thing for a while 125 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:37,399 where they called like Ken did in the Big Player book, and but this 126 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,240 was a little different. We would just sit on one table, one BP, 127 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,799 one card, one card counter and you asked, like, were we 128 00:09:43,879 --> 00:09:46,440 just going for it? And I would say, yeah, we were pretty 129 00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:50,519 much. We just bet high when the count was good, and we sat 130 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:56,759 through negative decks. We you know, spread we ate cards, the card 131 00:09:56,399 --> 00:10:01,320 the play caller would eat cards, and we just yeah, we just bet 132 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,879 big. You know, you'd have to sit and await. But the penetration 133 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,360 was a lot better in those days. Yeah yeah, what about you Colin 134 00:10:07,399 --> 00:10:11,399 with the Church team? Oh yeah, I mean none of us were planning 135 00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:16,840 on doing it for for very long, so we absolutely and we were largely 136 00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:24,320 influenced by a couple national teams that were you know that that we either learned 137 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,639 from or were inspired by that. I don't think they liked being named, 138 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:33,080 but the way they went was so fearless that, you know, it was 139 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,480 like, yeah, we wanted to live up to that same that same standard 140 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,080 of fearlessness. UM. But you would ask the question of how's it changed, 141 00:10:39,519 --> 00:10:43,000 um over over the years. And I started twenty years ago. I 142 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,039 can't believe it's been twenty years. But even just in the last you know, 143 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,480 couple of years, the things that come to mind when people ask me 144 00:10:50,519 --> 00:10:56,519 this, UM one is that, I mean, yeah, there's there's better 145 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,919 surveillance stuff, but not not really as much as people are afraid of. 146 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,399 I was in Vegas a few weeks ago. My friend Stephen Bridges spoke at 147 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,399 the World Gaming Protection Conference, and I thought it would be a funny idea 148 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,720 if he and I went to the Las Vegas Strip and just see it. 149 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,039 If you know, the two people that put their faces on YouTube if we 150 00:11:18,039 --> 00:11:24,320 could actually play during a surveillance conference. And the goal was to get some 151 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,000 like he's got his little undercover camera. And I couldn't get backed off bet 152 00:11:28,159 --> 00:11:31,480 enough to two by four hundred at places I've been backed off multiple times before. 153 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,360 I figured two by four hundred is more than ninety percent of card counters 154 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,600 out there are betting, So it was enough to like, and I was 155 00:11:37,639 --> 00:11:43,039 playing I won't say the names, but major strip casinos, and we ran 156 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:48,279 out of time to try to get any backofs because because we had to be 157 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:52,120 somewhere. So of course, yeah, maybe we got lucky. I was 158 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,919 expecting back offs, but it's not that like, oh man, you walk 159 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,679 into an MGM property and you're getting backed off because of facial recognition or whatever. 160 00:11:58,759 --> 00:12:01,799 But the other things I would say is I think an act is more 161 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:07,639 important than it was twenty years ago or even ten years ago. And I 162 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:11,960 think that's a big mistake a lot of young cardcameters make, is that they 163 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,960 have no act. They just they learned the math of it and they look 164 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,240 like a robot. But anybody that I know that's had made significant money knows 165 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:24,080 how to fit in and look look like a gambler. And then the third 166 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,360 thing I'd say is is that I think that you want to know more than 167 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:31,279 one way to generate EV. Whereas when I when I started, we were 168 00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:35,720 able to play full time for for several years just counting. And you know, 169 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,799 I suppose Burnon is proving me wrong, but but I tell people, 170 00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:43,120 hey, it would be good to know more than one way to generate EV, 171 00:12:43,279 --> 00:12:46,960 just so that if the tables aren't playable counting, you got you got 172 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:52,919 other options. Go ahead, how do you how do you fit in and 173 00:12:52,919 --> 00:12:58,080 look like a gambler. I'm not telling you all my secrets, but I 174 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:03,240 did after only the best ones. Well, I mean it's it's the same 175 00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:07,080 same, I'm sure you guys you know, like um, when when Stephen 176 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,080 and I were done, we ended up playing the same pit for our for 177 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,080 our last session, and I asked him afterwards, I was like, hey, 178 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,320 did you know what did you think? He's like, yeah, I 179 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,639 would have just thought you were a gambler. It's I think it's the mannerisms 180 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:26,919 and and uh, you know, the celebrations and and any of the things 181 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,759 that the people on on this uh call our prosap but I think a lot 182 00:13:31,799 --> 00:13:35,279 of people don't don't work on that, and then they say I don't get 183 00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:37,080 it. I get backed off all the time. You know, you're making 184 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,279 this stuff up. It's like, no, maybe you suck at the act. 185 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,759 Yeah, I want to I want to say that. Um. The 186 00:13:43,759 --> 00:13:50,919 the in terms of how things have changed, the worst things that have happened 187 00:13:50,000 --> 00:14:00,080 for card counters are the um the ability for the casinos to communicate and to 188 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,320 take very good photos, which I mean when Darryl and I started, a 189 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,200 lot of the places still didn't even have cameras, they had fake ones or 190 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:13,720 you know, they couldn't print out a picture and even put it in their 191 00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:18,200 own pit. So and now the fact that they can communicate with all the 192 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:24,159 other places so quickly is one. And the other thing that's just been horrible 193 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:31,519 is the government regulations, because the casinos now have an excuse to track who 194 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:39,600 you are, and that has really has really hurt things because forty years ago, 195 00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:43,559 it was much easier you could walk up to a cage at you know, 196 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:50,000 the Sands and cash out fifty thousand dollars with nobody would dream of asking 197 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,559 you your name and fifty thousand dollars which today is I don't know, two 198 00:14:54,679 --> 00:15:00,360 fifty. But try to cash out fifty thousand dollars today anywhere. I mean, 199 00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:05,720 they're gonna crap their pants and it takes an Act of Congress. Yeah, 200 00:15:05,799 --> 00:15:09,000 yeah, three thousand in some places. Hell, at the Gold Coast, 201 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,600 one five hundred dollar chip. They have to call the pit, you 202 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,879 know, you have to tell them where you were. But yeah, so 203 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:24,240 that part. But the things that have gotten so much better are Number one, 204 00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:28,799 there's a million casinos just in the United States. I mean when we 205 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,720 started, there was just Nevada, you know, Vegas, Sabrino at Lake 206 00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:39,960 Tag. Atlantic City wasn't even open now, and then and then New Jersey 207 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,240 opened, and even that it was years before anywhere else opened, and and 208 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,600 it was just Nevada. But it was mostly Las Vegas, and it was 209 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:50,279 mostly the Strip, and it was mostly like six clubs right right, right, 210 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:56,879 right right. So, uh so I want to burn it down. 211 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,399 The house. You, I think had been playing a lot of foreign places. 212 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,320 Now. I guess when you travel around the United States getting thrown out 213 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:10,519 of everywhere after ten minutes, you need to expand. So is that is 214 00:16:10,559 --> 00:16:15,759 that a lot of the impetus to start playing more foreign clubs. There's two 215 00:16:15,799 --> 00:16:18,759 reasons that's that's definitely one of them. Also, I really like to travel, 216 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,360 and so does my wife, and we've got two young ones and one 217 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,440 still flies for free, so we figured we may as well take advantage of 218 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,960 that and go see the world before we're paying for an extra ticket everywhere. 219 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:37,840 But also I was probably just gonna keep traveling in the US. But actually 220 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:42,679 the night before the Blackjack Ball, I was in Vegas and my wife was 221 00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:48,360 home and actually we had someone try to break into our house while I was 222 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,960 away and like attack my wife. Well, yeah, it was, which 223 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:59,120 is why I think I shared a bottle of Scotch with Rob Ritson. We 224 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,000 killed the whole bottle of oban. I was pretty like distraught at the Blackjack 225 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,279 Ball because of this end, and what we ended up doing is moving and 226 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:10,559 we just bought that place, so we put it on Airbnb. So this 227 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,480 whole year we don't really have like a home base, and that's just kind 228 00:17:15,519 --> 00:17:17,880 of cash blowing. So I figured for a year, we're just going to 229 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,400 travel and go all out. So that kind of pushed us to do that. 230 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,480 Also because I'm still like kind of you know, freaked out to let 231 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,000 leave my family when I go on trips. So I was like, hey, 232 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,160 do you want to just travel this whole year and check out the world 233 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,119 and play blackjack? And my wife was totally down with it. So so 234 00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:38,079 that plus also going to see what you know, different areas of the world 235 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,960 have to offer, are both what led me to going international mostly this year. 236 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,559 Is your wife a player? Uh No, she just crushed a lot 237 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:53,480 and I'm just kidding. She's a she's a she's a supporter of me doing 238 00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:56,960 it, but she's she has no interest on being in being in casinos and 239 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:02,839 stuff. She's she doesn't like casinos it all. And but she's super supportive. 240 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,480 She understands the match, she understand she's she's actually the one, like 241 00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:08,759 when I get crushed really badly, she's always the one saying it's gonna turn 242 00:18:08,839 --> 00:18:11,920 and you know you got there. You're getting hours in here, so at 243 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,960 least you got that going for you. You know, she gets it so 244 00:18:15,079 --> 00:18:18,640 and I'm really lucky with that. But yeah, so important to have a 245 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:23,079 wife that understands the and the hard to find. Yeah, well, you 246 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:29,359 know, there were definitely some other women that came along before her that probably 247 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,039 this would have went horribly just because but we've always had a good connection. 248 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,519 So, I mean, outside of blackjack and every everything, I think it's 249 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,240 important for people to find, you know, the right match for them and 250 00:18:40,279 --> 00:18:44,039 they're you know, relationships. But yeah, yeah, I do feel lucky 251 00:18:44,079 --> 00:18:47,160 for that. That's that's a huge part probably of even my success at this 252 00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:49,440 grind and probably in other things when I go, is just having a supportive 253 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:55,880 partner. Yeah. So when you travel around the United States and you know, 254 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,400 you go into a casino, sometimes you'll only last ten minutes and then 255 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,880 sometimes you get to play for thirty hours. But when you're traveling in other 256 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,640 countries, sometimes if the casinos are a lot farther apart, and the expenses 257 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,200 of getting to them is more and all that, I mean, how do 258 00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:18,279 you deal with all that? Um? Yeah, especially this last trip where 259 00:19:18,279 --> 00:19:21,200 I went to the UK, it was it was pretty tough. It was 260 00:19:21,319 --> 00:19:25,680 it was really really expensive, you know, just moving around and going that 261 00:19:25,759 --> 00:19:29,880 far and then constantly getting a hotel and beating out all the time, and 262 00:19:30,039 --> 00:19:36,400 it's just it turns into something where I just have to get in a lot 263 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,200 of hours. So I basically calculate my ev and I low ball the EV 264 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,720 and then I calculate what I think the trip expenses will be and I try 265 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,799 to get it somewhere around ten percent of what EV will be. And uh, 266 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,640 and then I just you know, if I call a massive downswing, 267 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,880 then I'm stuck just obsessing about getting in time at the tables and it can 268 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,440 make things even more stressful. But um, that's that's basically how I planned 269 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,920 the trip, and uh, you know, I have my expected value and 270 00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:10,119 just you know, try try to not lose my mind if things go really 271 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,200 far south and still take time to hang out with the family. But uh, 272 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,519 but yeah, sometimes you're hit with other things, Like I wasn't ready 273 00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:21,039 for how hard it was to get cash in the UK, so I didn't 274 00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:25,079 bring like a massive bank or I just bought brought like twenty thousand in USD 275 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,160 and I lost that in like the first two days, and I was like, 276 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,400 oh no. And then like every place, you know, it's so 277 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,119 hard to get cash. The ATMs limit you to five hundred dollars a day, 278 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,440 so then I had to hit up like multiple ATMs a day, like 279 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,039 and then my max I could take out all my cards, it's like ten 280 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:48,680 thousand pounds and I lost that five pace in a row well bus like every 281 00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:51,440 day and then I finally hit like an upswing. But yeah, there was 282 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,880 a lot of traveling involved, and you know, most of the places over 283 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,559 there, and I'm talking specifically mostly about the UK because that was my first 284 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:02,799 big like international trip and we're we're leaving here in a few weeks and then 285 00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:06,440 we went like you know to another part of the world a few weeks ago, 286 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,559 but in a few more weeks we're heading back out internationally again. But 287 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,200 yeah, it was there was a lot of and then exchanging converting when I 288 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,359 had all the when I had all the British pounds. You know, I 289 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,920 had like about one hundred thousand worth of USD in pounds that I lost like 290 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:29,400 four to five thousand dollars just exchanging that. So there was like all these 291 00:21:29,519 --> 00:21:32,920 keys that I wasn't used to, but you know, it was all part 292 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,279 of the learning curve. Ended up still, you know, making a decent 293 00:21:36,279 --> 00:21:40,799 amount of money after all expenses and everything. So but it did make me 294 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,519 want to just travel more, you know, realizing that it was possible and 295 00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:49,039 out of like all the adversity and unforeseen things and still still came out positive, 296 00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:53,000 so and my wife enjoyed traveling, so we're gonna continue doing it this 297 00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:57,559 year. You probably know some people who know some people who have some cash 298 00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:02,559 over there. Yeah, it was just gonna say, like Colin just talked 299 00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:04,920 about Stephen Bridges, like, I'm sure he would have vouched for you to 300 00:22:06,039 --> 00:22:11,200 say hey, or you could have wired it to Steven and if he was 301 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,720 even in the UK. But I mean, yeah, thinking about that because 302 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:19,039 it also helps with the exchange rate too. Daryl and I our first international 303 00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:23,200 trip was also to the UK, and it sounds like we had the one 304 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:33,079 Yeah. Nice, it was eighty three actually, but but yeah, one 305 00:22:33,079 --> 00:22:37,839 of the problems we had was all of the casinos were private clubs and you 306 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,599 had to become a member, and back then you had to wait forty eight 307 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:47,240 hours after you signed up. Now so it sounds like a lot of the 308 00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:49,519 clubs now are not like that. You can just go into them like a 309 00:22:49,599 --> 00:22:53,640 regular casino. No, No, there's still all private clubs. You need 310 00:22:53,680 --> 00:23:00,680 to play raided and which is why I only have a handful of sinos left 311 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,559 to play after two months. I only have a handful of casinos to play 312 00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:07,680 in the whole entire UK. So so yeah, once they get you, 313 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,359 you're just done with the whole the whole chain, and you don't have to 314 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:17,000 wait. Though there are still a few of those private, super private clubs 315 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,440 um where there is a waiting list, and I tried actually to get a 316 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,160 membership at one of those and they just refused me right off the bat. 317 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,599 So yeah, once Scotland's, once Scotland Yard was onto us, we got 318 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,640 the next step. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got one night of 319 00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:36,720 play one night in Scotland Yard. They couldn't they didn't have enough money to 320 00:23:36,759 --> 00:23:40,680 pay us, and we came back the next day to cash the chips and 321 00:23:40,759 --> 00:23:44,480 Scotland Yard was there waiting for us. Search Star motel room. The only 322 00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:48,480 place they didn't look was my ankle and that's where the computer was. Yeah, 323 00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:56,880 yeah, that's right. It was a pretty harrowing first international experiences. 324 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:04,759 Several times on this show has been mentioned that clubs in the UK prohibit card 325 00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:11,319 counting, and if you do it anyway, some players have not been paid 326 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,319 by the casinos. If you lose, they'll they'll keep your money, but 327 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,720 if you win, they won't pay you, saying you broke the rules. 328 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:25,200 Now you're doing this currently have you had any experiences along those lines of being 329 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:32,400 stiffed, not in the UK, but multiple times from Caesar's properties. I 330 00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:36,640 had nine thousand and chips confiscated from me and they told me that I was 331 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:40,079 cheating, and I said, you know, card counting isn't cheating, right, 332 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:41,400 and they said yeah, And I was like, you know that's what 333 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,920 I'm doing, Like this is no secret, let's just call it what it 334 00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:48,160 is, Like you need to give me my chips back, and they said 335 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,519 no, and they kicked me out, and I actually end up calling Bob 336 00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:56,160 Lobe and he gave me like a list of what to do. I guess 337 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,480 I could share it, probably useful information for other people, but he told 338 00:25:00,519 --> 00:25:04,440 me to call the local gaming and he told me to tell them what time 339 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,880 this was, and to call the casino that where it was, and to 340 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,160 tell them to keep all the footage from this to this, this amount of 341 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,480 chips were confiscated and we want all the footage kept, and you know this 342 00:25:18,559 --> 00:25:22,960 is illegal, blah blah blah. Write at an official complaint to them, 343 00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:27,279 and so I did that and literally the next day, the head of casino 344 00:25:27,319 --> 00:25:32,200 security called me back like his job depended on it, and he was like, 345 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,640 We're so sorry. I don't train them to deal with cardcounters like that. 346 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,039 He's like, I'm so sorry. We can give you a check, 347 00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:40,359 you can come back and get the cash, whatever you want to do. 348 00:25:40,759 --> 00:25:41,839 And I was like all right. I was like, you know, I 349 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,839 tried to tell them that they were telling me that what I was doing was 350 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,440 illegal when they knew what they were doing was illegal. And if they didn't 351 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,599 know that, you guys, you aren't doing a good job at explaining to 352 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,519 your staff, you know, the laws of gaming. And uh yeah, 353 00:25:55,799 --> 00:26:00,839 but it worked, but you said it happened multiple times at Caesar's properties. 354 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:07,799 Another time, my chips were confiscated at Harrah's in Vegas and uh it was 355 00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:11,480 twelve thousand in ships and uh yeah. I called Bob, their sassy, 356 00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:15,000 and he said he told me a few things to try, Uh nothing was 357 00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:19,559 working. Um, but yeah, and ended up getting those back though as 358 00:26:19,559 --> 00:26:26,240 well. But uh, it's just it's just crazy to me that one of 359 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,920 the biggest you know, uh, gaming companies in the US, I just 360 00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:36,119 just does not pay attention to the law. I'm surprised in Vegas too, 361 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,720 Like I can I would expect that more like somewhere out in the middle of 362 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,119 the country or whatever in Vegas. You would think they would know better by 363 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:49,079 now. Yeah, yeah, that but the casino before was was in Indiana, 364 00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:53,279 Um, the one before, but that I was talking about. But 365 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,680 yeah, there's other times I've been, you know, refused to be cashed 366 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:03,039 out because in their in their Caesar's system, I guess it says that like 367 00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:06,960 I'm marked as an advantage player, and some people misinterpret that is like they 368 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,440 don't have to pay me. And so that's happened before too. And I'm 369 00:27:10,519 --> 00:27:14,359 just at the cage on the phone and I've just called Gaming myself and told 370 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,599 them what was happening, and then Gaming calls them and I'm like there, 371 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,240 then they pay me, just like all pissed off and quiet. I'm like, 372 00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:26,319 I told you, I told you gaming on speed now let's yeah. 373 00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:29,240 Well, depending on where I am, I usually just google it, you 374 00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:32,640 know, whatever, guess you need to go with whatever local gaming there is, 375 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,480 it's always a different number. But in my experience, gaming has always 376 00:27:36,519 --> 00:27:41,079 been very helpful and even tribal even I've had issues with the tribal casino not 377 00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:45,319 paying me, and I called the tribal Gaming and they they made them cash 378 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,640 me out. That was in Arizona. Yeah, they were very nice to 379 00:27:48,759 --> 00:27:55,519 us. In Arizona. They were they reluctantly barred us. Yeah. Yeah. 380 00:27:55,599 --> 00:27:57,640 And the guy even said, like, I'm I think this is a 381 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,599 mistake, but my ball were making me do it. We were getting a 382 00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:07,200 crazy lot of vassya. Yes, have you guys told told that story on 383 00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:11,640 gambling with an edge? No, I don't think so. Okay, I 384 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:17,000 may have heard the story at some point, but we'll keep it there. 385 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,559 Yeah. Oh, there's not a lot of the story. We just want 386 00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:23,799 a lot of money. And it took them fifteen months to figure it out. 387 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,519 And even then they weren't sure. Um you know. I actually that's 388 00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:33,960 another thing you'll changed. You were my bodyguard, weren't you much getting you're 389 00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:37,559 driver? You're driv Yeah, yeah, playing and much. You could just 390 00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:41,480 stood behind me and you know, and poked me when I should make a 391 00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:48,880 bet stuff. Yeah yeah, and sometimes I would sort of They would think 392 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,920 I was asleep because I had my head down and a hat and you know, 393 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:59,119 yeah you were thinking hard. Yeah I was thinking hard. Yeah. 394 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,000 Those places where exhausting, but um uh, but they were a lot of 395 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:10,519 fun. I have to say when you were talking Colin about having more than 396 00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:15,000 one way of generating EV, it does seem much harder to generate EV at 397 00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:21,480 blackjack in different ways, Like yeah, back then we had shuffle tracking and 398 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,559 a sequencing and now there's so little of that anywhere. Yeah, I was, 399 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,720 I was going to say that there are certain plays that you know, 400 00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:37,279 we're even in books twenty years ago that people say, oh, yeah, 401 00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:41,160 you know, are you gonna cover this at a boot camp? But say 402 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,480 I can, but there's no, not really any point in covering it. 403 00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:48,000 Good luck, you know, making a living off of it. Maybe you 404 00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:52,079 can find an obscure a couple of places to do it. But actually people 405 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:57,279 sometimes contact me about learning shuffle tracking, and and I'm like, you know 406 00:29:57,319 --> 00:30:03,920 what, Uh find a game that's beatable first, because yeah, as you 407 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,279 say, you could go years and never find a casino with a trackable shuffle 408 00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:14,279 in it. Well, I've never practiced hard enough or gotten my technique down 409 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,000 enough where I would cut like a slug of low cards out and then just 410 00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:22,640 come out like a at a true four or five, knowing that all those 411 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,960 were cut out. But I have successfully been able to just kind of willy 412 00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:30,400 nilly track and then cut the low cards to me, so that way I 413 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:36,039 know off the bat that I'm not just like coming off some like wonky deck 414 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,599 estimation or something like that, like I know, okay, well, I 415 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,160 think that's where the slug of really low cards are, like all right there, 416 00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:48,400 So I will try to cut them to myself. And I've actually successfully 417 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,599 like after the first deck is burnt, had like a true three, you 418 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,119 know, or something like that, just because then I know, because I 419 00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:57,720 saw all the high I counted all the low cards. But I've successfully done 420 00:30:57,759 --> 00:31:00,480 that a handful of times. But but but you look like a counter. 421 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,440 Yeah yeah, but it's yeah, that's ideally you want to do the opposite. 422 00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:08,559 But yeah, yeah, but that's the That's the most I've gone, 423 00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:12,559 and I've gotten pretty ripe count But it also disclaimer, this is not a 424 00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:18,920 place that I think has like people in surveillance counting the tables basically well. 425 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,759 But also often those places are too cheap to have shuffling machines, which almost 426 00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:30,000 everybody has now and and and often those places won't really take any action either, 427 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,680 so and then they're just very hard to find those games. That was 428 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,960 one funny thing at I was just eavesdropping to Stephen Bridges talking to surveillance people 429 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,359 after his talk, and a number of them came up and said, oh 430 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,039 yeah, we don't get card counters or advanced players at Arcasine House. And 431 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:52,799 I'm just snickering to myself. Yeah, You're like, where where is this? 432 00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:57,079 Exactly? This sounds like a good time to take a commercial break. 433 00:31:57,799 --> 00:32:01,319 So Richard, why don't you lead us off with that? All right? 434 00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:06,279 Well, since we're talking about blackjack, if you're serious about card counting, 435 00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:09,279 the Blackjack Apprenticeship membership is a great way to learn, train, network, 436 00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:14,480 and get the resources you need to succeed. 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Currently 463 00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:24,719 you're more into music right now, right, Daryl, That's right, And 464 00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:30,599 so I just want to ask you guys about about that, about being musicians 465 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:37,559 and if you think that helps being a blackjack player or hinders and the ability 466 00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:43,679 to go back and forth and how music plays into your life as blackjack players. 467 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,199 Well, I'm still trying to figure that out. Really. I've I've 468 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:50,679 had periods of time, you know, and I may never but I've had 469 00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:54,159 periods of time where I've been just a folk singer a good ten years and 470 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,280 at one point where I was just a folk singer, panned my bills by 471 00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:04,599 taking my acoustic guitar and singing songs for people, And then of course many 472 00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:07,079 periods of time, especially in my twenties, where I was just a blackcheck 473 00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:09,360 player, and then the rest of the time I've just sort of been juggling 474 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:14,360 it. I like, you know, the thing that sort of connects them, 475 00:35:14,559 --> 00:35:19,760 I think is that they're both sort of self employed, you know, 476 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:28,320 they're self made efforts, and they also both entail a lot of creativity, 477 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,199 you know. I mean sometimes with if you're just counting cards, that maybe 478 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:37,000 that's not as much creativity. But if you're looking for other edges or trying 479 00:35:37,039 --> 00:35:40,519 to figure out how to lay it down in a way that you won't get 480 00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:44,159 backed off, even so maybe it is card county. But a lot of 481 00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:47,760 creativity in both on both fronts. So my songwriting, you know. And 482 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,400 then the idea that we go into these casinos and we look at these games 483 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,639 and we just think, well, you know, what do they think is 484 00:35:54,719 --> 00:36:00,119 random that isn't? And how how are we going to bet it? Know? 485 00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:04,039 And it's it can be really interesting. You know that that play that 486 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,360 we were talking about, Munchkin, that you and I did, I mean 487 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,800 I had that it was the hand I'm remembering the hand of a lifetime where 488 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,320 I actually knew that the first hand, my first hand, and third hand 489 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:20,639 we're going to be black checks. I knew that right, and I remember 490 00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:22,400 I was slow to make the bet I was so excited. I was slow 491 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,039 to make the bet and they started to pull the card out and like I 492 00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:30,559 only had two hands bet. I'm like wait, you know, and I 493 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,719 just like, oh man, I just fought for it, and they let 494 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,639 me bet the three hands, and you know what, the second hand was 495 00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:44,920 a black check two just random randomly maximum bets three hands after me making such 496 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,159 a fuss, you know, let me bet three hands. Let me bet 497 00:36:47,159 --> 00:36:51,199 three hands, and then boom, boom boom. I don't know why that 498 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,199 came up to me that it has I have something to do with your question. 499 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,840 I'm not sure, but no, wait, but I have to say 500 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,559 because it brought up something for me, which was my favorite hand and out 501 00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:07,079 of all of that play over fifteen months, was we had a hand where 502 00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:15,480 you had ace deuce against a seven and I'm giving you double and you're scratching 503 00:37:15,519 --> 00:37:22,119 your head like h and I'm giving double and uh because I knew the next 504 00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:29,039 card coming was an eight and and so you finally shoved it out there and 505 00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:34,880 you know, and caught the eight and uh yeah. And so that was 506 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,320 the one hand that I really remember because I was just like, you know, 507 00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:45,280 please see this signal um but yeah. Anyway, so burning uh unto 508 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:52,480 you music and uh favorite hands and that music imprompted you well actually kind of 509 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:57,599 along the lines of that one funny in the in the UK. Uh uh, 510 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,320 As far as hands are concerned, I was, I was just playing 511 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,920 it was it was it was a low count, so I was just betting 512 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:09,639 tablemen and uh. The taeler goes to take another card and uh and I 513 00:38:09,639 --> 00:38:13,480 think it was something like stand on soft seventeen and it was soft. She 514 00:38:13,519 --> 00:38:15,719 went up and then I saw it and it was an ace and she saw 515 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,760 it too for the next for my next hand for the next round, and 516 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,320 I was like, uhally cleared off the table and I was just like Max, 517 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:27,159 just table, Max, Like I just put our table food. And 518 00:38:27,199 --> 00:38:30,280 she goes and I was like yeah yeah, and she goes, Okay, 519 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:36,840 she just dealt it. Black jack, Darrel. Do you want to tell 520 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,239 your UK story about your hand? Or is that or is it too soon? 521 00:38:42,639 --> 00:38:45,159 I don't know which which hand, but um, the one, the 522 00:38:45,159 --> 00:38:49,559 big one, Okay, yeah, I don't know if you know. I'm 523 00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:53,480 just gonna finish maybe, but to finish up and um to answer your question 524 00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:59,920 about music and and gambling. Um, oh I guess I got nothing more 525 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:01,239 to say about that. Yeah, I think they have some overlap because of 526 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:07,519 creativity, and you know, I probably you know, the black check is 527 00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:09,920 something you share with a few people, you share with your teammates. But 528 00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:14,599 in music, you can stand up before you know, one hundred people or 529 00:39:14,599 --> 00:39:19,760 two hundred people, and take the take the whole room on a ride, 530 00:39:20,039 --> 00:39:23,519 on an energy ride. And that's that's really kind of an incomparable thing. 531 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:29,400 Although it you know, it is fun to go back in the hotel room 532 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:34,440 and count the money with your friends. I would say it's the same because 533 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,039 you know, like I'm out in public and people want me to autograph their 534 00:39:37,079 --> 00:39:40,840 their album, and then you know, I'm at the table and pit boss 535 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,239 wants me to autograph his pad when he realizes who I am. You know, 536 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,599 no, just kidding. It's completely different. It's exactly more along the 537 00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:54,079 lines of like what you're saying, you're so used to like like giving yourself 538 00:39:54,159 --> 00:39:59,199 to this audience that appreciates what you're giving to them, and like you expressing 539 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,880 yourself and then you spend all this time and energy and risk management and all 540 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,320 this stuff to beat the game of blackjack, and people are like get the 541 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:13,679 hell out of here, so unappreciated, and then like with music, people 542 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,079 appreciate you so much. But as far as far as the as far as 543 00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:22,639 the similarities, I think something that really prepared me for blackjack is the travel, 544 00:40:22,679 --> 00:40:28,079 because I was a traveling musician quite often. And I mean, you 545 00:40:28,119 --> 00:40:32,199 know, I travel longer for way less money, so so it kind of 546 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:37,360 made it easier too to go on these shorter trips and make way more money. 547 00:40:37,039 --> 00:40:42,960 But but I miss I do miss the ability of like you express yourself. 548 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,639 And this this like catharsis when you write a song and share with people 549 00:40:45,679 --> 00:40:49,119 and they get it and they understand it and they feel it, and you're 550 00:40:49,119 --> 00:40:52,280 all like you're all there together. And then you go on a blackjack trip 551 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:58,360 by yourself and you lose horribly and you're just helping a hotel room and you're 552 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,920 just like wanting too and my wife just like gives me like encouragement, but 553 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,559 she does not know how I feel. And then it's and then like you 554 00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:07,920 know, and I don't feel like writing a song when I'm on a dead 555 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:12,400 downstading. I should just be like punching a wall. But and then when 556 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,800 it's really high, usually like oh, my god, I just won like 557 00:41:15,159 --> 00:41:19,480 thirty thousand dollars in a shoe, Holy shit. And it's like five in 558 00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:21,920 the morning, and everyone I know is asleep, and I'm like, well, 559 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:27,840 I guess or a beer for myself alone in this hotel room and stare 560 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,719 at this cold stack of cash. But it's it's different, but it's also 561 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:37,159 I don't know, it's an interest juxtaposition. Yeah, that all rings true. 562 00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:42,960 Yeah, I'll chime in. As a non accomplished musician, for about 563 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,400 ten years of my life, all I want to do is play music. 564 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:50,440 But I was gonna say, I think probably the most fun thing I've ever 565 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,800 done is performed with other musicians when you're just like locked in together like it 566 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,599 is so it's it's like euphoric. And I would say the second closest is 567 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:07,760 team play. Pulling off team play effectively, where you know everyone's in lockstep. 568 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,920 This thing that you put all this energy into is just going going perfectly 569 00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:15,639 it. You know, it's not the most profitable thing I ever did as 570 00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:20,000 a as an AP, but definitely the most fun thing I've ever done is 571 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:25,159 an AP. Yeah, I have to commit mostly guitar, guitar, bass, 572 00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:30,199 and drums. I wanted to talk about burnon when you were talking about 573 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:35,400 going back to the hotel room at five am by yourself. Um, that's 574 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:43,039 why I really UM was basically always a team player because I did not want 575 00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:45,559 to go back to the hotel room by myself. And for me, the 576 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,360 like when Darrell was saying, you know, it's fun to go back to 577 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:54,280 the hotel room and count the money, but UM, for me, the 578 00:42:54,360 --> 00:43:00,199 time in the hotel room with the other teammates was always way more important than 579 00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:07,800 the time on the table and getting to Darrell's creativity point. The most rewarding 580 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,159 things for me were going back to the hotel room and sitting around and like 581 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,639 people throwing out ideas like did you see this on this table? Like what 582 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:20,039 if we tried that? Or what if we and somebody else is like, 583 00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:22,840 oh, but we could try this, you know what I mean that that 584 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:27,360 is where the creativity would come in and when that all comes together and works, 585 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,159 to me, that's the best part of playing the game. Well you 586 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:42,440 have friends, good for you. I'm not a musician, but I still 587 00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:50,239 perform sometimes in improv and storytelling and hope to get back to teaching classes and 588 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,800 it's it's a different part of my personality than just playing in the casino. 589 00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:01,239 And now my game's not blackjack, but it's But I can easily play one 590 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:07,800 hundred hours a week every week and focus in. But when I take time 591 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,840 to do those other things, I think I live longer. I think I'm 592 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:15,880 more well rounded. I think I can relate to people better. I can 593 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,320 as long as I'm doing those other things, I have things to talk about 594 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:25,280 with people. If alls I'm doing is playing video hooker and going, well, 595 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,599 this is double points on Tuesday, I have to do that, It's 596 00:44:29,639 --> 00:44:35,360 like I run out of things to talk about with non video hooker players. 597 00:44:36,159 --> 00:44:39,639 And so that balance is good. Yeah, creative outlet, we all need 598 00:44:39,639 --> 00:44:44,840 a settle. You said the word focus too, and that's another thing that's 599 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:50,280 really similar. I mean when you're performing and when you're on the black check 600 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,599 table, which in a sense it's like performing, and you you just need 601 00:44:53,639 --> 00:44:58,280 to be able to shut out you know, the you know, suits that 602 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,159 are watching you from every angle, and the and the and the cameras and 603 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:06,239 the same. You know, it requires a focus that's really similar to performing, 604 00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:09,360 where you need to shut out everything. But what's going on between you 605 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:15,519 and the people that you're playing for. Yeah, um burnon. Uh you 606 00:45:15,559 --> 00:45:21,159 know, I keep hearing people say things like, oh, it's different now 607 00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:24,360 you can't play without a player's card. Uh do you use a player's card? 608 00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:29,760 No? I mean, oh, very very few places, but no. 609 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,960 If I use a player's card, it's either going to be an automatic 610 00:45:32,039 --> 00:45:36,679 back off or a tres pass. But I have had instances where I see 611 00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:39,199 tr and it's been a place that I should not be playing, and I've 612 00:45:39,199 --> 00:45:43,840 been backed off several times. And I this has happened like twice in my 613 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,679 career, and I give them it's it's a high count. And the next 614 00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:52,039 casinos far I just give them my ID and then they make me a player's 615 00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:55,960 card and they're like, here you go and play all night. And I'm 616 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,000 like, how is this even possible? So, I mean there's weird things 617 00:46:00,039 --> 00:46:04,519 that happen like that, And that's why I say even you know, like, 618 00:46:04,519 --> 00:46:08,239 like our actual ev IS is statistical variance, but I feel like hours 619 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:12,920 in grinding creates this variance as well, where all of a sudden you'll just 620 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,599 get this session where you have a marathon session at a place you could only 621 00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:20,840 get a half hour in it, and that's only overcome by like cranking away 622 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,719 hours and going place to place to place. But um, but no, 623 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,079 I do not. I do not play rated. Uh you know there's a 624 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,119 there's a couple of places that I do. Um but you know they're off 625 00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:34,360 the beaten path, and they don't they don't have any they don't subscribe to 626 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,840 any databases. But no, my go too, and I would I would 627 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,280 recommend people don't. I mean, everything's circumstantial, you know, because you 628 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,880 have these red chippers that can't even travel to where they need to travel to 629 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,679 play unless they get some coughs. But that's a tough situation. But I 630 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,000 would always tell people that just keep your ID, save your ID. In 631 00:46:53,079 --> 00:46:55,800 the long run, if you're gonna keep doing it, it's not worth just 632 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,320 exposing yourself. How old you have? How old you have to be before 633 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:07,039 you can just forget about that because of the so many years have already gone 634 00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:09,800 by, and there's done not that many years left. How that's that's my 635 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,280 question. I asked myself all the time, how old do I have to 636 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,559 be before I just go blast? Because what's the worst that can happen? 637 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,679 You know? I could be I could be eighty years old and not happen, 638 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,679 not get to play. You know, yeah, I don't know. 639 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:29,960 That's above my above my experience. Well, all you have to do, 640 00:47:30,159 --> 00:47:35,199 Darrel is figure out exactly when you're gonna die off of that. And that's 641 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:40,159 the number. What's the problem the thing? Do the numbers? All right, 642 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:45,960 We're go ahead, bub We've had a nice chat or blackjack round table, 643 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:52,639 and at the end of our show we have a recommended section. So 644 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:58,360 um, your your friendly hosts are going to take a break this week, 645 00:47:59,039 --> 00:48:04,639 So call, do you have a recommended for our audience? I do. 646 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,719 I just finished a series it's on HBO Max called We Own This City, 647 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:16,119 and it's created by the guys that made The Wire, and it's based on 648 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:21,320 a book, a nonfiction book of the true story of corruption in the Baltimore 649 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,960 Police Department. And I didn't know until I got to the last episode that 650 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,679 it was based on true story, because my brother just said, oh, 651 00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,440 you should check this out, And the whole time I was watching it, 652 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:35,800 I thought, well, it's probably you know, sure, there's probably corruption 653 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:37,320 out there, but this is fiction. And then I got to the end 654 00:48:37,639 --> 00:48:43,440 and it's completely based on a true story and it's you know if you like 655 00:48:43,559 --> 00:48:46,920 the Wire, you'll you'll enjoy this. Kevin Bacon, right, isn't it? 656 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,760 No? Oh, I'm thinking of a different show then he's in everything 657 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:57,360 else. Yeah, Daryl, do you have a recommended for us? You 658 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,400 know I had some music to share. I've got this album in my hands, 659 00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:06,199 Singer songwriter Heaven, the Songs of Kevin Ferty. It's my friend Kevin 660 00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:10,760 Ferty from Nashville. It's twenty songs he wrote and it's all his good friends, 661 00:49:12,559 --> 00:49:16,119 each singing one of his songs, twenty songs total. I know you 662 00:49:16,159 --> 00:49:20,800 can't everybody can't see this. We're only audio, but I can show you 663 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,719 guys in the in the chat, So that's highly recommended. I also, 664 00:49:25,559 --> 00:49:30,840 you know, I have to self plug. I'm I'm. I'm headlining McCabe's 665 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,360 in Santa Monica on April twenty third, Sunday, April twenty third. It's 666 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:39,199 a big deal. I've seen everybody from rich de Havens to Farren, Peter 667 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:45,239 Case, Roger McGuinn many more there and I get to play there and it's 668 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:50,760 uh, it's it's probably my best gig. I've seen townsman Zan there the 669 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,199 first time I ever went there. I saw townsman Zan. I don't know 670 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:57,880 if you guys know Towns, but anyway, so April twenty third, mccabees 671 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:06,719 in Santa Monica, A very good talent. Yeah, Vernon, do you 672 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,559 ever recommended for our audience? I do, um. You know, I 673 00:50:10,679 --> 00:50:15,280 just feel like a lot was put into this project, and I just feel 674 00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:22,079 like whoever whoever checks it out is going to be entertained in many, many 675 00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:27,320 ways. But it's actually the book that Colin put it together with a bunch 676 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,320 of blackjack stories from tales from the Felt, twenty one card counters, and 677 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:38,239 twenty one short stories about you know, life experiences or specific experiences from playing 678 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:45,440 blackjack from professionals, and it has amazing illustrations. And I also put my 679 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:51,519 own story into it. It was a story that was straight from the heart, 680 00:50:51,559 --> 00:50:54,800 involves my father, and you know, I just feel like a lot 681 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,800 of people racked their brains for this put it together really nicely, and I 682 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,840 think calling did an amazing job. This is definitely a passion project because you 683 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,199 can tell how well it was a put together. But I would I would 684 00:51:06,199 --> 00:51:08,719 recommend checking out that that book that they put together tales from the film, 685 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,719 and we'll have a link in the show notes for it on that subject, 686 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,760 calling, do you anticipate a volume two? I'd love to do a volume 687 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:21,559 two. I'm trying to sell enough copies of Volume one to pay for itself 688 00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:28,239 and get you know, get into the money for the nonprofit. We'll get 689 00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:32,400 there. It's just but but I would absolutely love to do a volume two. 690 00:51:34,039 --> 00:51:37,880 I'm just trying to sell copies a Volume one right now. Actually, 691 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:43,559 I think it'd be great to have a podcast just like that where it's just 692 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:50,840 one person telling one gambling story. You know, the whole podcast would only 693 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,840 be ten minutes long each week or however often you did it or whatever. 694 00:51:54,159 --> 00:52:00,480 So yeah, yeah, there's so many great stories. So if we if 695 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,519 we do a volume two, Uh, Darryl, you'll you'll be the first 696 00:52:02,519 --> 00:52:06,599 person we reach out to. And and Bob, if you've got a tale 697 00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:09,679 from the felt I do. I do more than one. Actually, Bob 698 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:16,639 is a great h blackjack story about being staked out by gaming um so, 699 00:52:17,199 --> 00:52:21,920 which he is told on the show. Yeah. There's guns and naked women 700 00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,800 and all kinds of things in the story, so it's uh, sounds like 701 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:31,039 a movie. Yeah, yeah, all right, um, thank you Colin 702 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:36,840 Darryl Burning. Thank you, Richard, go out and hit lots of royal 703 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,679 flushes everybody and dealt blackjacks. Bye bye,