WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:03.960 This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to kf I AM six forty, 2 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:08.720 the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on demand on the iHeartRadio app. Welcome to the 3 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:13.279 Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the 4 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:16.359 iHeartRadio app. If you're new to my show, you should know I have 5 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:20.359 a PhD in clinical psychology. I'm a psychology professor. I've written three books 6 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:25.440 on relationships because I'm very excited about the science of love. And I want 7 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:31.039 to open the show with a special gush of love for all my friends and 8 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:39.840 family and colleagues in the LGBTQ plus community because it is now officially Pride Month, 9 00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:45.840 and so I hope you know how beautiful you are and how perfect you 10 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:51.359 are. And I will tell you a story about how my privilege, my 11 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:57.960 cis gender heteronormative privilege, reared its ugly head. One day, I was 12 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:03.240 at an event at USC and I think it was a Latino Alumni Association event, 13 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.760 and there was a woman there sitting at my table and we were chatting, 14 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:11.519 and I don't know how the conversation came up that she had gone to 15 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:12.920 Harvard. My daughter was at Harvard at the time, and she said, 16 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:15.400 oh yeah, I was just there, in fact, for a big pride 17 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:19.000 event. And I looked at her and said, doesn't that school have enough 18 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:25.079 to be proud of? Like why is Harvard having pride parties to be proud 19 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:30.159 of being Harvard? And literally she looked at me like I had three heads, 20 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:37.959 and she goes, always an LGBTQ pride event, Oh so embarrassed because 21 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:40.799 we were talking about Harvard. Then shecause, I was just there for a 22 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:49.519 pride event for my school. Oh doctor, Okay. So I know that 23 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:55.200 some of you out there might be having this sneaky little thought, why do 24 00:01:55.280 --> 00:02:00.439 we need Pride month? I mean, those people have equal rights, shoving 25 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:02.959 it in my face. I know there are people out there that think that, 26 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:08.080 But I want to ask you this. Have you walked the walk every 27 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:15.159 day in the body of somebody who may be lesbian, gay, bisexual, 28 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:22.719 trans, or queer or other. Have you lived that life? There is 29 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:28.000 research to show that, yes, we have come a long way, but 30 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:32.960 according to a recent Gallup poll, sixty four percent of lgbt Q plus people 31 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:40.439 have experienced anti gay violence and abuse. Sixty four percent violence and abuse. 32 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:46.400 On this particular survey, nine and ten of the people who responded said they 33 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:53.439 had been personally negatively impacted by their experiences of this from this abuse. A 34 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:58.360 report from Stonewall. Kayla, do you know what is when I say Stonewall, 35 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:00.439 I do not, Okay, was a famous bar in I think it 36 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:06.240 was New Jersey or New York, somewhere where the very first, the first 37 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:09.800 shot across the bow was thrown when a shot glass from a drag queen through 38 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:14.800 at police who were invading. Can you get the year of Stonewall, I 39 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:19.120 mean, we should look that up. And it was the Stonewall Uprising, 40 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:23.479 and it was really the first time that when a gay bar was being shut 41 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:28.560 down by police that it turned into a giant fight and war. And that 42 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:34.240 was really the beginning of building alliances, joining arms. You know, the 43 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:38.360 needs of lesbians may be different from the needs of gay men, or bisexual 44 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:42.680 people or trans people. However, the more allies, the more you can 45 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:47.000 link arms, the more you can create a rainbow flag, the more likely 46 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:53.199 it is that you will have a larger, more progressive political voice so that 47 00:03:53.400 --> 00:04:00.639 all these sexual and gender minorities can benefit. Stonewall happened in nineteen sixteen sixty 48 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:03.879 nine. That was the beginning. So it continues to do reports on the 49 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:09.479 well being of the gay community. So a recent report from Stonewall shows that 50 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:14.759 thirteen percent of LGBT plus q plus I'll get it out. You know, 51 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:16.720 we're learning. We're all learning new words. We had to learn omicron, 52 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:25.040 we had to learn delta, now we're learning LGBTQ plus thirteen percent experienced some 53 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:31.000 form of unequal treatment from healthcare staff because of their sexual orientation, and a 54 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:40.439 very disturbing and worrying seventy percent of trans people reported being impact by transphobia when 55 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:46.920 assessing general health services at school. We don't even have to get into it 56 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:53.720 middle school. Yahoo's middle school knuckleheads are bad enough when it comes to bullying, 57 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:57.959 but when it comes to LGBTQ plus people, they that seems to be 58 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:00.680 their victim of choice forty two perc and to have reported being bullied in the 59 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:08.519 past year. And at universities even people have hidden their sexual orientation because they 60 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:14.040 fear discrimination. So it has not stopped, and in fact, it's become 61 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:18.079 very political. You know, it's so crazy that there are a group of 62 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:23.439 Americans who say, please, government, stay out of our bodies. Our 63 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:27.879 bodies, our bodies, and then that same group votes anti abortion, and 64 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.279 then that same group is trying to take away trans rights. So it's just 65 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:34.600 like, can we all just have body autonomy? Can we say that the 66 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:40.800 state's rights and anybody's rights stops at our skin? Can we say that? 67 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:45.040 I mean, America's supposed to be the land of the free. We all 68 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:47.879 come here, we're all immigrants from somewhere, and we all came here for 69 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:51.879 freedom. And if we can't have freedom to be who we are, then 70 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:58.519 how free are we? I want to us all just stop and open our 71 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:04.759 minds, to open our hearts and think about how there are people who are 72 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:11.600 born a certain way, just like there are many flowers in the garden. 73 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:17.040 Mother nature is perfect in its variance. In fact, the more genetic variants 74 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:21.120 we have in our species, the more we have survival benefits. Right, 75 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:26.480 So there may be something that's not needed for in one particular generation, but 76 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:30.079 oh that gene is really needed for in the next generation because the environment put 77 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.759 a different kind of pressure on people, right, And so to think that 78 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:40.399 we need only heterosexual people is so backward thinking. If you look from the 79 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:45.399 beginning of evolution, from the beginning of time, when we were roving and 80 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:50.120 encampments of about thirty five people. We needed gay brothers and sisters to help 81 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:54.959 us out. We needed cooperative parents. We needed alloparents. We needed to 82 00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:00.639 raise the tribe together. We needed our gay brothers and sisters, needed them 83 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:04.560 as helpful parents, and we are a system of cooperative breeders. It took 84 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:10.279 a village, and not everybody should be burdened with the job of raising kids. 85 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:13.800 We needed hunters, we needed protectors, we needed gatherers, we needed 86 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:17.839 house cleaners, we needed people who had time. And so it's very important 87 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:21.560 that you understand that the gay gene, I'm making that up. They haven't 88 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:28.759 found an actual gay gene lives in us because of the nurturing that gay aunts 89 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:31.199 and uncles gave to their nieces and nephews who also carried their genes. By 90 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:34.639 the way, when we come back, I want to talk a little bit 91 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:41.279 about gender. I know I've done this mini lecture before, but if you're 92 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:45.560 new to opening your mind to what it is to be a transperson, then 93 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:50.839 let me talk about the diversity in just our sex chromosomes alone, and how 94 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:56.160 that ends up, how that explores, how that comes out, how that 95 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:59.879 blooms as a perfect human. When we come back, you were listening to 96 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:03.079 the Doctor Wendy Walls Show and kf I AM six forty. We're live everywhere 97 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:09.800 on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI 98 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:15.040 AM six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on KFI AM 99 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:18.720 six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. For the last eight 100 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:24.319 years, I have been teaching at California State University, Channel Islands. I 101 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:31.199 teach health psychology, I teach developmental psychology, I teach intro to psychology, 102 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:35.879 and in every one of my courses, I include a lecture on gender and 103 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:43.120 sexual orientation because I think there's so much confusion, and I think to celebrate 104 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:48.600 Pride Month, the best way that we can all celebrate the diversity of peoples 105 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:52.519 that exists among us and in our families is to have a greater understanding of 106 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:56.679 the science of it. So bear with me for a few minutes. I'm 107 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:01.519 going to enlighten you with Professor Walsh's Well, this will be a mini lecture. 108 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:03.879 This is normally a three hour lecture, but let's see what I could 109 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:05.480 do in six or seven minutes. First of all, let me just say 110 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:16.279 this that gender identity, gender role, and sexual orientation are three distinct concepts 111 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:22.960 and one does not predict another. So let's break it down. Gender identity, 112 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:26.600 how you identify male, female, other, both, none, how 113 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:31.639 you feel. That's a lot of psychology, right, Gender role, what 114 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.960 you do? You know, this was a big issue back in the nineteen 115 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:39.879 seventies. There were boy jobs and girl jobs. You know. Men were 116 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:43.639 engineers, they flew airplanes. I was on a flight the other day, 117 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:48.399 pilot, copilot, flight attendants, all female. I felt very safe just 118 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:54.320 saying, let's testosterone up there for jumpy quickie decisions in my mind, So, 119 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:58.360 gender role is about what you do and what society's rules may be. 120 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:05.120 Are are women supposed to be the caretakers of the chewin or are men? 121 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:09.240 Right? These are gender roles and then their sexual orientation, and that has 122 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.759 to do with who we're attracted to. And so I want to remind you 123 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:20.799 there may be very masculine men who have a very masculine gender role and a 124 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:28.320 very masculine gender identity who might be one hundred percent gay. There also might 125 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.799 be a very feminine woman who loves to cook and clean and nurture and decorate 126 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:39.080 and make flower arrangements, and she may be one hundred percent gay. There's 127 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:45.480 no way to predict right now. Yes, there also is some science to 128 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:50.759 show that many gay people tend to be, you know, a little bit 129 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:56.600 diverse in their gender role and their gender identity. Right, So, yeah, 130 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:03.320 it's it's not wrong to say that a majority of gay females may appear 131 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:07.240 more masculine, and that's partly biological, but that's not all, So don't 132 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:15.120 make assumptions, right, So, mostly we learn our gender roles in our 133 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:18.879 childhood. And you know, back in the nineteen fifties, it was very 134 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:22.080 clear what a female gender role was, what a male gender role was, 135 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:28.240 and that has changed so much today. Nothing warms my heart better than seeing 136 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:31.759 a man wearing a baby. Literally. I went a few years ago to 137 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:37.360 Stockholm to visit my daughter on her semester abroad, and there they have figured 138 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.679 out how to get more men to parent and be involved in their kids. 139 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:46.600 They basically pay them. Here's what they say. Every parent gets, every 140 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:52.000 family gets eighteen months parental leave paid parental leave to take care of their nurture 141 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:56.120 their little kid. However, it can't all be taken by one parent, 142 00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:01.799 so they force men who may not be acculturated to be one on one dad's 143 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:05.279 to take care of babies and toddlers. So in Stockholm you see these roving 144 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:11.559 bands of muscled, tattooed, bearded dudes wearing babies, carrying babies. They 145 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:15.799 meet at coffee shops and hang out having their coffee. They had the babies 146 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:18.799 landing right out on the big farm table changing diapers. I was like, 147 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:22.960 oh, that's interesting. But anyway that it was so great to see that 148 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.240 they would find the social support of other males who were in the same boat, 149 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:30.600 and they were all hanging out dealing with babies together. I mean, 150 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:33.639 if the government is going to get involved in our personal lives, that would 151 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:37.240 be a great way, right, pay people to parent. So anyway, 152 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:45.519 gender roles mostly learned, but let's talk about how we assign a gender to 153 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:50.919 babies. You know, first of all, our sex is made up of 154 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:56.679 our chromosomeo sex. You can be x X in your sex hormone sex chromosomes 155 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:00.639 xx is female. I always say, help my students, remember my first 156 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.440 year students, X X is female. Just think about kiss kiss and then 157 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:11.240 xy is male. But we are known to have discovered so far up to 158 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:16.159 seventy different variations in those sex chromosomes. So you can have an XX half 159 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:18.399 of a Y, you can X have a missing why, you can have 160 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.240 y Y and have a crumpled X and whatever. There are million ways and 161 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:28.399 that informs the development of the fetus for their gonadle sex, their interior or 162 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:33.519 their internal and external organs. Right now, when a baby comes out, 163 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:37.399 the doctor looks down and looks at only one thing. They don't give them 164 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:41.960 chromosome test, they don't look at their internal sex organs, they don't give 165 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:46.279 them an X ray. They look at external genital sex, and they give 166 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:50.960 what's called a sex assignment. Now, from there the parents take off and 167 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:56.879 start nurturing that baby in the way that they believe that that sex that is 168 00:13:56.919 --> 00:14:01.840 assigned should be raised. Thus comes often pain for those people who have been 169 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:07.399 misassigned. Did you know it is possible to be born with a vagina and 170 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:15.559 evolva and some undescended testes and at puberty testosterone kicks in. It's a wild 171 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:20.840 ride. It is possible to be born with a small penis and ovaries tucked 172 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.559 inside, and then at puberty, oh my gosh, breast grow. Stuff 173 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:31.159 happens. Seventy different variations have been identified so far. So when you hear 174 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:41.919 about trans people deciding to change genders, please understand that one in one hundred 175 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:50.679 people are called intersects, that biologically they have pieces of both. So I 176 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:56.399 want us to open up our hearts and have a greater understanding. And if 177 00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:03.879 somebody chooses to be sort of non gender specific and live a life of what 178 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:07.759 we call non binary where they don't identify with one or another gender, you 179 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:13.960 know what, who cares? Love them? They're a human. You know. 180 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:18.000 I always tell my students if I went away on a weekend and I 181 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:22.600 got married, and I came back into the classroom and said, from now 182 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:26.960 on, I'd like you to call me missus, you would do that out 183 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:31.200 of respect. On a college campus, it is expected that you address your 184 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:39.639 professors as doctor. You do that out of respect. If somebody says call 185 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:45.960 me they, you would do that out of respect. And that's why we 186 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.320 need Pride Month so that we can have a greater understand You know, you 187 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:54.159 don't even have to understand doesn't matter. Just respect it, trust it, 188 00:15:54.399 --> 00:16:00.639 and love each other. That's all that matters. Happy Pride Month to all 189 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:07.399 the LGBTQ plus community. I love you. When we come back. There's 190 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:14.519 a new trend in relationships. It's called being undivorced. Maybe that's you. 191 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.200 Let's talk about it when we come back. You are listening to the Doctor 192 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.840 Wendy Walls Show and kf I Am six forty. We're live everywhere on the 193 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:26.279 iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from kf I Am 194 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.600 six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on kf I Am 195 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.200 six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You know, you 196 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:38.639 can always follow me on my social media. The handle everywhere is at Dr 197 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:45.120 Wendy Walsh at doctor Wendy Walsh, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, whatever. 198 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:52.600 I'm there. So this week I was invited yet again to be on Australia's 199 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.399 version of The Today Show. They have the same kind of thing and I'm 200 00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.240 kind of their relationship expert and I do segments every once in a while, 201 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:02.000 and they wanted to talk about this growing trend that they're starting to see in 202 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:08.079 celebrity relationships called being undivorced. And it's funny because this topic was actually a 203 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:15.039 topic of mind because I met this guy recently and he and he was going 204 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.079 through a kind of emotional breakup. But when I really sorted it out with 205 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:22.480 him and tried to understand what he was talking about, I realized that this 206 00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:30.720 breakup was actually this emotional breakup was actually happening thirteen years after his divorce, 207 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:33.559 So stay with me. He and his wife had two little daughters. They 208 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:38.000 were like aged three and five. They divorced, but they decided to stay 209 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.119 together for the kids and helped raise the kids, not lived together, so 210 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.200 they had two separate houses. Although he admits he had some stuff at her 211 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.359 house, she had some stuff at his house, and if there ever was 212 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:49.400 a late night with the kids and drop off, they would just sleep on 213 00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:52.440 the couch or whatever. Right, But he said, honestly, we did 214 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:59.000 not have sex in thirteen years. We didn't date other people, mostly because 215 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:03.880 we were busy work and raising the kids. So flash forward thirteen years plus 216 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.839 five year old one turns eighteen, right, so he goes out and gets 217 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.880 a girlfriend. The kids are raised it's time, right, And he tells 218 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:19.079 his ex wife who's his best friend, and he thinks, you're ready for 219 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:25.039 those guys. He thinks she's going to be happy for him. He thinks 220 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:29.519 she's going to celebrate him. That's great. You know our daughter's eighteen. 221 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:33.279 Now it's time. But no, no, no, no, no, 222 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:38.440 she explodes. She takes a fit. She says, come get your stuff 223 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.960 out of my place. It's over. We're not getting together friendly family dinners 224 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:49.200 anymore, no more birthdays, and she loses it and he is devastated. 225 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:55.279 Now all of this was obvious to me, but I listened to stories. 226 00:18:55.799 --> 00:19:00.279 I listened to the parallel universe with a PhD in psychology, So our emotional 227 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:06.039 brain is very different from our intellectual brain. And I would say, as 228 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:10.640 I told him that you were her primary attachment figure, and you change the 229 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:15.079 relationship contract without permission. It might have been easier, but not that much 230 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:18.519 easier for you to say to her ahead of time. Hey, our kids 231 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:21.720 are getting raised. I know you're my best friend. I always want to 232 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:23.160 keep you as my best friend, but I would like to have a sex 233 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.960 partner now, so I'd like to start dating and then sort of ease her 234 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.480 into it, or see how she dealt with it, right, that would 235 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:37.559 be the thing to do. It might not have been any better because being 236 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:45.119 undivorced means that you still have this emotional lifeline between each other. And although 237 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.200 the divorce took place on paper, and you each have your own sets of 238 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.279 spatulas in two separate houses, and you've each got your own sets of sheets, 239 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:56.559 and you've each got your own cars and your own roof over your head, 240 00:19:56.279 --> 00:20:02.359 there's an emotional tie between two of you. And although you could rationalize 241 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:04.039 you but it was just about for the kids. No, you leaned on 242 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:10.319 each other, you needed each other. You were happily undivorced, and now 243 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:17.400 you're actually going through the real divorce. Right. I have a girlfriend she 244 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:22.240 has been divorced for oh gosh, I want to say six years now, 245 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:30.200 and her ex husband hasn't been doing as well, and so she is taking 246 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:33.640 him to court for more alimonia whatever, child, I don't know, whatever, 247 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:37.720 But I say to her, you know, all these hiring of lawyers, 248 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:41.079 all these going back to court is keeping you attached to him. The 249 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:47.160 relationships not over to you as long as you keep going back to fight. 250 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:52.880 Because you see there's a fine line between love and hate, and we will 251 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.440 stay attached even to something we hate because we love it and need it. 252 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:00.640 Case in point, the father of my drin and I broke up, Oh 253 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:06.440 gosh, eighteen twenty years ago. Whatever. I literally forgive him for everything 254 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:08.000 that happened. If you listen to my show for a long time, you 255 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.720 know I'm a survivor of domestic violence and went I forgive him. I understand 256 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:15.960 his traumatic childhood, I understand everything. I want nothing more than our daughters 257 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:18.240 to have a good relationship with their father. I totally forgive him. I 258 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:21.880 don't necessarily want to hang with him. I mean, I'm not calling him 259 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:23.680 up to say let's do family stuff together. Oh I have to tell you 260 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:29.160 something so you wouldn't believe. My daughter is turning twenty and we, for 261 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:32.359 each of our kids, made one of those baby time capsules. Will you 262 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:33.759 keep it open for the first year of their life, and you put in 263 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:37.000 memorabilia, and then you seal it up and for twenty five years they can't 264 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:41.079 open it. So it's supposed to be twenty five. So my oldest daughter's 265 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.400 turning twenty five in a couple of weeks. She lives in Paris. It's 266 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:48.440 a heavy, heavy time capsule. If I shipped that thing to her, 267 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.000 it is going to cost me so much money. So I said, you 268 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:52.240 know, honey, when you come home at Christmas, you'll still be twenty 269 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.240 five. Can you open it? Then? So then starts the younger one, 270 00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:59.279 Well, she's getting to open hers, I should get to open mine. 271 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:03.000 And I said, I'll only consent to it if your older sister says 272 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.920 it's okay, because you know the sibling rivalry and whatever. So she comes 273 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:11.640 back with she doesn't care. And I called dad, and Dad said he 274 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.039 would be on zoom with us, and since you and Dad made that time 275 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:18.799 capsule together, you should both be there when I open it and unpack it. 276 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:23.319 I said, fine, I don't care. I mean literally when I 277 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:26.599 say I don't care. Of course I care. I care that my daughter 278 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:32.440 has a dad involved. I'm not worried or embarrassed or ashamed or nervous about 279 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:37.240 seeing him on a zoom. I literally have no ties, no connection. 280 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.680 I've done all the emotional work, I did the therapy. He's a human 281 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:44.680 being who deserves to see his daughter do this. I'm a human being. 282 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:48.680 I deserve to see my daughter do this. So and that's how we're not 283 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:55.000 undivorced, is my point. We are fully separated emotionally, financially, physically, 284 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.880 we are fully separated, but there are a lot of people who have 285 00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:03.480 different stages of separation. And by the way, I was talking on the 286 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.440 phone with my older daughter this week and I said, so, your sister 287 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:11.119 says, it's okay, she opens her time chap, and she said, 288 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:15.119 no, she did not. She said she called me and I said, 289 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:19.880 no way, you cannot open it. So you will have to stay tuned 290 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:25.279 for this little bit of family drama because the birthdays in two weeks. And 291 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:27.279 I don't know how we're going to resolve this because I told her only if 292 00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:30.119 her older sister approves. I don't know. What do you think? Send 293 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.240 me a message on social media. I don't know how to deal with this, 294 00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:37.680 a parent parenting dilemma I'm having. Should I make her wait till she's 295 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:42.200 twenty five? Should I? Because her sister had to wait? Yes? 296 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:47.400 Oh, look that's fair. Sorry, yeah, And that's what the older 297 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:48.839 one says. She you spoil her, You give her whatever she wants because 298 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.960 she's the little one, and if she wants this now, that's why. 299 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:55.319 But then here she's got her dad involved now and he's gonna be and I 300 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:57.559 want the two of them to be together. And I know, I know, 301 00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.559 Listen, when we come back, I want to talk about other ways 302 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:07.119 that people are undivorced, either living separately, still best friends, divorced yet 303 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:12.680 family. Some people are not divorced, but they're living separately, and it's 304 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:17.680 basically having your cake and eating it too. Let's talk about when I come 305 00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:22.920 back, let's talk about the people who should never try being undivorced, because 306 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:26.519 trust me, it's going to go south. It's going to be a huge 307 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:30.279 drama. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on kf I am 308 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:36.359 six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to doctor 309 00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:41.599 Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI AM six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor 310 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.319 Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio 311 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:49.759 app. You can always follow me on my social media at doctor Wendy Walsh. 312 00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:55.599 All right, we're talking about undivorced people who are kind of married and 313 00:24:55.799 --> 00:25:00.839 kind of divorced and I want to explain that it's a natural and normal phenomenon 314 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.519 to have evolved in our species for a couple of reasons. First of all, 315 00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:11.000 our long life expectancies. So when Till Death Do Us part was invented, 316 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:15.279 death was pretty imminent. We were dying of disease and war, and 317 00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:18.799 women were dying in childbirth. And so if you got married in the year 318 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:23.960 nineteen hundred, the average length of that marriage was twelve years. If you 319 00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:30.119 got married in nineteen ninety, the average length of that marriage was twelve years. 320 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:34.720 But we're separating through divorce now instead of death. Now. The other 321 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:42.519 thing that's making undivorce happen is that we're reducing our village around us, and 322 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:48.400 we are replacing our village with one single human being, our partner. We 323 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.839 are making our partner be our emotional support, our financial support, our intellectual 324 00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:57.440 support, our sexual support, domestic report. So we're everything. We're putting 325 00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:02.960 all our eggs into one basket. And I will say in particular, men 326 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:07.079 do that with women. They use one woman as they're everything, right, 327 00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:11.759 And that's why men do worse after divorce than women, because women are more 328 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.279 likely to have social support and a social circle and they often take the social 329 00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:21.160 capital with them. And guys are more alone and isolated, so they may 330 00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:23.720 more want to keep this little string attached. They may want to keep this 331 00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:32.440 undivorced best friend relationship. So it's these two phenomenon that our lives are much 332 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:37.279 longer than ever. And even the most monogamous of humans can expect two or 333 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.279 even three long stints of monogamy. And I know you're thinking about my grandparents. 334 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.359 They were married for a six day five years. Good for them, 335 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:48.680 were they happy? Just saying we also are forcing people to stay on unhappy 336 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:56.039 relationships. I never judge the quality of a relationship or the success of a 337 00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:00.079 relationship based on duration. You know, you can have a relationship that's three 338 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:04.400 dates long and go, oh, I see the red flags. That person's 339 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:07.960 not for me. And that's a successful relationship for you that you moved on 340 00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:11.720 quickly, right that you knew you could read the writing on the wall, 341 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:15.200 you had grown instead of becoming attached to somebody who could hurt you. Right. 342 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:21.240 So never use duration as a litmus test for a relationship's quality or its 343 00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:26.119 health. But some people, instead of having these two or three long stints 344 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:33.400 of monogamy, are having their marriage and then this long period of being undivorced. 345 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:40.200 Undivorced meaning that they're divorced. They live separately, but they're still best 346 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:45.319 friends and use this person as their emotional lifeline. Some of them women hook 347 00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:48.160 up once in a while, a little sex with your ex action going on. 348 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.680 Then there are others who have children, so they get divorced, but 349 00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.039 they stay family for the kids. They get together for the kid's birthdays, 350 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.319 for all the religious holidays. If they're dating other people, they don't invite 351 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:03.400 those other people because I know because you guys send me the private messages, 352 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:07.440 the dms on Instagram, and you say, I'm a dating this guy for 353 00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:11.920 two years, but on the holidays he goes with his ex wife's family and 354 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:14.480 whatever, and I can't sell it. I'm not invited. Should I be 355 00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:18.319 invited? Yeah, you should be invited if he's fully divorced from her emotionally 356 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:25.720 and financially and everything else. Then there are others, and I had a 357 00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:30.319 friend who did this. They're actually not divorced, but they move out and 358 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.319 they live separately because the cost of divorce is so much. Right, And 359 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.160 I remember this girlfriend of years and years and years ago, and her husband 360 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:41.000 was paying like two hundred thousand dollars a year to support her in another house. 361 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.319 And all I kept saying to her is, look, any man who's 362 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:49.240 paying two hundred thousand dollars a year to not get a divorce is saving money. 363 00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:53.359 She's like, no, I don't think he has that much Anyway. 364 00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:57.039 Later they finally got divorced because she did fall in love and that guy wanted 365 00:28:57.079 --> 00:29:00.759 to marry her, and he was a good guy, and that wonderful guy 366 00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.640 said, let's go to court and see what happens. Wow, she got 367 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.200 a couple of houses and boats and cars and enough for money for life. 368 00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:12.480 I don't say that that is a good savings plan for women. I'm all 369 00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:15.759 about making your own money, ladies. I'm just saying it's kind of funny 370 00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:21.440 if somebody says so. There's lots of reasons why people might be not divorced. 371 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.039 Now. Also, we see celebrity couples like Ben Stiller and Christine Taylor 372 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.839 get divorced and then get back together, or like j Lo and Aflac. 373 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:36.680 Right, they get but that's different than undivorced. That's called being retrosexual. 374 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.680 Right, that's a little bit different. I will say this that we are 375 00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:48.920 always struggling as every human being to manage our needs for autonomy versus our needs 376 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:53.960 for union. Right, So every relationship is this constantly struggle for boundaries, 377 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:57.400 like who am I as an independent, separate person? But how can I 378 00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:02.400 get the benefits of you know, using this other brain thinking as a half 379 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:07.160 a brain person cooperative thinkers, that's what we are when we're in couples. 380 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.480 And how can I get the benefits of union but still not lose myself? 381 00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:18.079 And this is a struggle in every relationship, but it's particularly pronounced in people 382 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.759 who are undivorced. And they get undivorced for these benefits. They get that 383 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.240 emotional support that I'm talking about, They get that best friend, They may 384 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:32.480 get financial support like my friend who you know was still not divorced and living 385 00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:38.400 separately. They may also get to maintain their connection with the tribe. Remember, 386 00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:45.240 marriage relationships are a bridge between tribes, and when you divorce somebody, 387 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:49.200 you don't just lose them. You lose their friends, you lose their family, 388 00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:53.720 and maybe you wanted some of those relationships. So being undivorced is a 389 00:30:53.759 --> 00:31:00.000 way to keep the tribe there. Now I will say this, there are 390 00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:04.079 a few people who should never try being undivorced. And I'm not judging undivorced. 391 00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:07.119 I'm just saying there are many ways to have a relationship across the lifespan. 392 00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:14.119 But here are the people who should avoid becoming undivorced. Anybody with an 393 00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:18.559 anxious attachment style, if you have big abandonment issues, if you're still thinking 394 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:19.960 where are they, who they with, what's happening when they're not with you, 395 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:27.119 then you are going to constantly be triggered with the inconsistency of an undivorced 396 00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:32.799 relationship. Also, if you have complete financial dependency on somebody, you're not 397 00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:36.920 actually able to give consent. You're not able to negotiate boundaries or rules in 398 00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:42.039 your undivorced relationship. You really can't enter in the relationship contract because you're too 399 00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:45.640 worried about losing the gravy train. So as a result, you can't be 400 00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:52.000 undivorced if you're still financially dependent on somebody. And also those who had an 401 00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:56.759 acrimonious divorce, Look, if you just came out of the war the roses, 402 00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.880 you should not dip one toe back in. You should cause that real 403 00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:04.759 separation that no contact, right, You've got to do that. So again, 404 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.960 it's not for everybody. It's often a temporary thing that people do to 405 00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:14.640 get the kids finished being raised. When I applaud that, but ask yourself. 406 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:19.480 Is your spouse, your ex spouse, your best friend? And why 407 00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:22.759 is it keeping you from finding real love? Is it keeping you from finding 408 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:28.759 a secure attachment and a thriving sex life? Yeah, think about it, 409 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:36.359 think about why you're undivorced. When we come back, let's talk about how 410 00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:43.279 to have a healthy relationship. Nine phrases to show that you are an emotionally 411 00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:50.079 mature and emotionally secure relationship. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on 412 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:55.559 KFI AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You've been listening to 413 00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:59.759 Doctor Wendy Walls. You can always hear us live on kf I AM six 414 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:05.079 four from seven to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.