WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.160 Today, I want to tell you about a journey that I've been on for 2 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:05.120 most of my life. Ever since I was a kid, I've heard tales 3 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:09.199 of Bigfoot and wild men while spending time with my friends and family. As 4 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:12.759 I grew older and read more about the paranormal, my interest in encryptids and 5 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:17.039 other things strange only deepened. That's why I'm so excited to share with you 6 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:22.960 what I've personally become involved with the Untold Radio Network. The Untold Radio Network 7 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:27.480 is a live streaming podcast network that airs a new show every day across all 8 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:31.839 podcast platforms, YouTube, and more. They have eight different shows on all 9 00:00:31.879 --> 00:00:36.119 sorts of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and 10 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:39.759 much more. I even have my own show called Weird Encounters, where I 11 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:43.920 talk about all things strange. This is more than just a podcast network. 12 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:47.759 It's a community that allows me to meet so many amazing people who share their 13 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:52.280 stories and experiences with strange. If you're interested in hearing more of these stories 14 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:56.320 and learning more about the paranormal encryptids, make sure you check out the Untold 15 00:00:56.399 --> 00:01:00.759 Radio Network for all kinds of exciting shows. It's free to subscribe. So 16 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:08.560 what are you waiting for visit www dot untold radionetwork dot com today. Thanks 17 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:12.359 so much for joining me for the show. This midweek bonus episode is something 18 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:15.480 special. It is actually a show that Wayne and I recorded over on that 19 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:21.560 Bigfoot podcast last week with doctor Hogan Shirou, who you guys are familiar with 20 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:23.560 because I've had him on over here on Sasquatch Otssey in the past. We 21 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:29.200 had a phenomenal conversation and Hogan joined Wayne and I over on that Bigfoot podcast 22 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:32.480 to continue that conversation and to get into some things that frankly, he and 23 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:34.920 I didn't get a chance to talk about here on Sasquatch Odyssy. So I 24 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:38.719 think you're really going to enjoy this episode. It was a phenomenal conversation and 25 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:42.319 it gave Wayne the opportunity to ask Hogan some questions that had been burning in 26 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:46.519 his mind since he had listened to him over here on Sasquatch Odyssey. If 27 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:49.040 you didn't catch the first episode with Hogan, it was episode four forty one, 28 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:52.799 you can go back and listen to that first and then listen to this. 29 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.120 So what you're about to hear from beginning to end is the entire episode 30 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.879 of that Bigfoot Podcast. If you guys aren't listening to that podcast, you 31 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:05.079 are missing out on some phenomenal conversations. You can get it anywhere. You're 32 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:07.759 listening to me right now on any podcast app. Wayne and I would love 33 00:02:07.800 --> 00:02:12.080 to have you join us for some of the phenomenal conversations we have over there. 34 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:14.120 But enough of that. I know you guys are ready to get into 35 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:15.800 it. Hogan and Wayne are on the line. They're ready to go. 36 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:20.719 All this left for you to do is sit back, relax and enjoy the 37 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:23.000 show. Hey guys, this is Jeremy from Australia and you're listening to Brian 38 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:37.319 and Wayne on that big Foot Podcast. Wayne, what's going on man? 39 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:39.319 Brian? What's up, buddy? How you doing today? I'm hanging in 40 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:43.039 like a hair and a biscuit here in the Bigfoot Bungalow. Ready to go 41 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:46.400 out and do some celebrating with some friends later on after we record this hang 42 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:49.840 out, kick back a little bit and get away from the Bigfoot stuff. 43 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:52.800 Had some things going on recently. We're not going to get into that now, 44 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:55.199 but I've talked about it as a guest on another podcast. A couple 45 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:58.960 of nights ago. I've had some stuff happen on the property that we'll get 46 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:00.479 into some of the time. But what's been going on with you man, 47 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:06.520 not a whole lot. Tiffany and I had our after our show last night 48 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:10.199 that went till after eleven, and then a bunch of us jumped on discord, 49 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:14.439 hung out and shot out the braders for a little while. So I 50 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:19.759 am tired. Hadn't been up very long getting ready to record this interview live 51 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.960 in that podcast gangst a life partying like it's nineteen ninety nine and twenty twenty 52 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:30.759 four. Pretzels and Mountain dew Man just going at it. Pretzels a mountain 53 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:34.039 God, you're old, dude. It's supposed to be some kind of like 54 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:37.199 acid and Red Bull or something now for the kids. I don't know. 55 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:39.319 Bourn not going to talk about any of that. We have a special guest 56 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:42.879 on the show. This is only like the second or third time we've had 57 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:47.280 anybody on here besides us pontificating on the show. But we do have an 58 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:51.639 esteemed guest. We have a doctor in the house. We have doctor Hogan 59 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:54.400 Chirou. If you guys listen to Sasquatch Ottasy you've probably heard his episode. 60 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:58.800 It was back four forty one. I actually got the looking for his episode. 61 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:01.560 Hogan was sending me message just earlier, I think this morning, asking 62 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.280 what episode he was on sasquatch Ottasy, and I was like, oh, 63 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:08.199 it's four fifty one. No, it wasn't It was four forty one. 64 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:11.879 I fat fingered the four into a five. Fat fingers. Yeah, I 65 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:15.039 had to correct that. I guess it was sausage fingers because typically I don't 66 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.720 have fat fingers, but they do tend to swell in the heat, so 67 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:21.720 I had to go back and fix that. This morning, I was like, 68 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:26.279 oh, no, actually it was four forty one was your episode. 69 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:29.639 So if you guys are interested in hearing that conversation, it was phenomenal. 70 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:33.839 He sprung his beliefs on me because skepticism. I was expecting somebody coming on 71 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.519 telling me a story about their encounter, and he's like, no, I 72 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:42.399 don't necessarily believe that sasquatch exists. So we had a really awesome conversation. 73 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:46.199 And I consider this guy friend. He is certainly one of the best in 74 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:49.560 the business as far as I'm concerned with expressing his views. The conversation we 75 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:54.759 had on Sasquatch was fantastic, So I wanted to bring him on for us 76 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.279 to have a conversation over here and get into some of the things that we 77 00:04:57.319 --> 00:05:00.839 didn't get to get into over there, and let you I have the opportunity 78 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:02.040 to talk to him as well and ask some of the questions that you might 79 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:06.600 have. So, without further ado, let's bring on our esteemed guest, 80 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:11.079 doctor Hogan Shiro. Welcome to the show, sir. Good to have you, 81 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:14.079 buddy. This is like a whole different experience for him. This is 82 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:16.959 nothing like when we did Sasquatch. Out to see this is a completely different 83 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:21.120 show. So thank you first and foremost to agreeing to come on and talk 84 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:24.720 to us about Bigfoot. So let's get right into it. I want to 85 00:05:24.759 --> 00:05:28.519 start actually in a place where I sent you guys some questions yesterday that just 86 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:30.360 popped into my mind. I worked on a little bit about what I wanted 87 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:34.079 to talk about, but I got an interesting email. Wayne and I normally 88 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:39.920 start the show talking about the mail bag and getting emails from folks and playing 89 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:44.079 voicemails and having a little fun reading some shitty reviews that we get on Apple 90 00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:47.120 podcasts and other places. I wanted to start in a different place this morning 91 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:49.439 because I got an interesting email a couple of days ago, and I was 92 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:54.160 actually going back and forth with D today. He did not want me to 93 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:56.759 use his full name, so I'm not even going to use a first name. 94 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:59.399 He wanted me to just call him D. So I got an email 95 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:01.399 from D and here was his question, And I thought this would be a 96 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:06.000 good place to start with you a doctor chirou and had this conversation because I 97 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:10.560 think we might have touched on this briefly over on Sasquatch Odyssey, but if 98 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:12.759 we didn't, I certainly want to get into this because I think it's a 99 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:15.360 place that Wayne and I have went back and forth on a couple of times. 100 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:16.879 And Wayne has never heard this either, so it's new to everybody but 101 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:23.160 me obviously. D writes, my question is I want to hopefully open up 102 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:27.720 some much needed discussion in the Bigfoot community. First of all, why hasn't 103 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:32.959 any high profile Sasquatch influencer endeavored to unite the Bigfoot community in an all out 104 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:36.879 consensus to get the truth from the government. After all, the truth about 105 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:44.160 these creatures existence or non existence resides within federal agencies such as the US Fish 106 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:49.439 and Wildlife Service and notably the US slash Canada Border Patrol. In an email 107 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:57.040 I received last September from the USFWS HQ, I'm assuming that's headquarters, it 108 00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:01.480 stated, since hunting bigfoot is a recreational activity, it would be interesting to 109 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:09.800 know just how the USFWS came to that determination. Also, my original request 110 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:15.439 that I submitted to the us FWS website was removed by the agency, either 111 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:18.639 by a human or by AI. The reason I think it was was because 112 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:25.800 their boilerplate email response would have been out of context within my original request. 113 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:30.199 Thanks D. I got back with D and said, how did you get 114 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:33.720 this email from the Fish and Wildlife Service? Was it in response to some 115 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:38.079 requests that you said? I was a little confused, so he did follow 116 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:40.600 up with me via email this morning. We've been going back and forth since 117 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:45.439 about eight He sent this back and it was his original email. The subject 118 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:53.439 is email to USFWS the existence of sasquatch slash Bigfoot. The message is I 119 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:58.160 would like to speak to the person in charge of handling information concerning the sasquatch 120 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:01.439 bigfoot subject. Thank you, And this was the response that he got back, 121 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:05.639 thank you for contacting the US Fish and Wildlife Service. Our mission is 122 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:11.199 working with others to conserve, protect, and enhance fish, wildlife, and 123 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:18.279 plants and their habitats were the continuing benefit of the American people since hunting bigfoot, 124 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:24.000 bigfoot is in quotation marks is a recreational activity based on an individual's beliefs 125 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:28.480 of its existence. It does not fall under the jurisdiction of our structure for 126 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:33.799 the fish and wildlife. As a result, research or information pertaining to bigfoot 127 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:37.399 would not fall under the services that we provide, nor do we know who 128 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:43.519 would. In addition, there are no efforts to put such on an endangered 129 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.039 species list and no such spokesperson on topics for the service. Best of luck 130 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:54.600 in your research. He mentioned that wasn't his exact email that he sent the 131 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:56.679 first time around, So I inquired, like, are you saying that when 132 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:01.679 you got this response from them, that they actually can changed your initial email 133 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:05.799 because he was saying there was something off about his original email. So he 134 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:11.240 wrote back and said, yes, correct, my original email message was this, 135 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:13.919 which is the exact same message I had sent the first time to the 136 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:18.720 Department of Agriculture. Then next he sent it to the US four Service. 137 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:24.000 I would like to speak to a person who can verify for me either the 138 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:30.879 existence or non existence of the creature commonly referred to as a sasquatch or bigfoot. 139 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:33.840 He goes on to say, it is important to note that I always 140 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:39.159 wrote bigfoot or sasquatch even in the subject, but in their version it has 141 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:43.360 the two names separated by a. He calls it a sash mark. So 142 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:46.360 I said all that to say, it comes down to this, and this 143 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:50.519 is something that has come up over and over and over and over again. 144 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.879 And it's probably a little bit skewed for you, Hogan, in that if 145 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:58.200 you don't necessarily believe these creatures exist, then it probably means that the government 146 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:03.799 isn't hiding the fact that they exist or don't exist, or information about these 147 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.000 things in general. I know it was kind of clunky me getting through that 148 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:07.960 email, but I think you got the gist of it. Basically, this 149 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:11.039 guy writes into the Fish and Wildlife Service saying, Hey, I want to 150 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:15.440 talk to somebody about the existence or non existence of bigfoot, and he gets 151 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:18.320 back this sort of canned email saying, hey, you know, people out 152 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:20.200 looking for these things is based on your own beliefs. We don't really get 153 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.519 into that kind of thing. How do you feel about that in general? 154 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:28.559 Do you think there is even if it's a hypothetical, these things exist. 155 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.480 Do you think there's some sort of a cover up or do you think that's 156 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:33.519 an indicator that there's some sort of a cover up from the government related to 157 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:39.360 bigfoot. I think that most of the claims of government cover ups for most 158 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:48.240 things are speculation based on I couldn't find the information, so therefore it must 159 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.799 be a cover up. That reply right there to me, you know, 160 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:56.039 the fact that they change the wording, that sounds to me like an intern 161 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:03.159 or the lowest level person at Fish and Wildlife got this. Hey, respond 162 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:07.279 to this email. I doubt they're using AI to do a sort of auto 163 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:15.320 generated reply, especially because it says good luck in your research. That sounds 164 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:20.519 like, you know, reply to this email. Don't say anything that would 165 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:24.279 indicate that the government has any information, because that's not what we do. 166 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:30.960 Knowing a little bit about government agencies. Fish and Wildlife deals with fish wildlife 167 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:37.399 plants that are known to exist to science. Since fasquatch is not confirmed, 168 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:41.960 they have nothing to do with that. Department of agriculture, the Sasquatch grocorn 169 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:46.320 I mean they don't care. Unlet's sasquatch has got a big wheat field somewhere. 170 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:52.399 All due respect to d it sounds like this individual it was like, 171 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:54.399 I know all this, write letters to the government until I find the answer. 172 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.480 For a government agency, that would be the same as someone writing in 173 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:03.639 and saying I would like to know all the government's knowledge on Cthulhu. Okay, 174 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.000 well, yeah, Lovecraft was a creative writer. That's what we know. 175 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:11.000 I think for me, there's no sort of like, oh, well, 176 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:16.279 that must mean the government is covering something up. I just look at 177 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:22.720 it as government agencies, especially federal government agencies, are huge bureaucracies of what 178 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:26.360 is our mission? What do we do? And we only answer questions with 179 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:28.679 them that if I were to write them a letter and say, hey, 180 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:35.080 what's the official wildlife position on the best football team in America? To them, 181 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:39.759 that's the same as someone saying, what's your position on Sasquatch? It's 182 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:43.879 not part of our mission, it's not what we do. We maybe closet 183 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.919 commander fans because we're near DD, but we're not going to say anything. 184 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.720 So I just look at it as for me, if I were someone who 185 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:58.519 if I were a true believer or a nowhere as folks like to call themselves, 186 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:03.840 do a bad their class experiences or encounters, I wouldn't bother with the 187 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:07.960 federal government. For me, it's more a matter of I think the grassroots 188 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:13.159 folks have a far better chance. Efforts like the ones that you've talked about 189 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.240 before, Brian, that I've heard you talked about on Sasquatch odsty I was 190 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.039 on with Cliff and Bobo a while back, and you know Cliff doing his 191 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:26.279 kind of concentrated this is the area that I research. I've had the good 192 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:30.960 indication of activity. So I'm just going to continually go back, as you 193 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:35.200 guys know, that's how science works at a very basic level. And Brian, 194 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:41.000 we talked a little bit about the methodology that could be implemented a little 195 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:43.440 bit more. But I think that's where the folks want to find out the 196 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:52.759 facts about Sasquatch and its existence. Becoming more methodical and scientific in their approach 197 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:58.720 is really important, and sharing information between groups. I just listened to one 198 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:05.080 of your podcast recently where you were pointing out the kind of territoriality that happens 199 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.279 with some of these different groups, and as you point out, I mean, 200 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.879 it's understandable you don't want everybody coming in right. But at the same 201 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:18.639 time, this is where I think concerted efforts will be more useful, as 202 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:24.600 if these disparate groups shared information more freely, if they were kind of a 203 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:33.080 clearing house or a warehouse for information where folks could without the egos attached. 204 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:35.360 I think the reality is a lot of the searchers want to be the person. 205 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.879 They want to be, the one who can stamp their name on it. 206 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:43.080 As I pointed out to a friend who asked me at once, I 207 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:45.960 was in grad school at the time. My friend said, oh, hey, 208 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:50.919 Bigfoot real and not real? One of those late night evenings that you 209 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.440 guys were discussing there at the beginning. It was probably a little later than 210 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.240 eleven at that point, and probably some different substances were involved, so the 211 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:03.840 questions roll in Bigfoot real or not real? I was just saying, well, 212 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:09.399 if it's real, whoever comes up with that body, whoever finds it 213 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:13.519 and verifies it, their kids won't ever have to work. The reality is 214 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:18.120 that the amount that you get paid on a speaking tour, let alone the 215 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:22.440 book that you're going to write and the movie rights, and so there's that 216 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:26.039 motivation itself. I think more importantly for people, it's just kind of their 217 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:30.519 status and the fame that we come with it. They look at how much 218 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:35.840 mileage Patterson and Gimlin have gotten out of there. So man Bob is a 219 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.240 rock star in the bigfoot world for a good reason. I mean, he 220 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:41.799 wears great hats and has got great mustache. But I think they see that 221 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.840 there's a lot of people who want to have that, whether they realize it 222 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:50.279 or not. I'm putting together at least a four part series from Area X 223 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:54.240 some stuff that Brian Brown has passed on to me. It's long ago defunct 224 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:58.320 podcast that they were doing back in like twenty ten through twenty eleven, twelve 225 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:02.039 thirteen. It's all the interviews from people coming out of Area X and some 226 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:03.799 of their experiences that they were having. I was editing some of that early 227 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:08.000 this morning. And one of the things that Brian's in a conversation with his 228 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.399 co host about in this particular episode, which for you guys, will be 229 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.519 part four over on Sasquatch out to see when I put this out, he's 230 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.519 talking about that in the very beginning, you know, the TBRC back then, 231 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.840 now the NAWAC, the North American wooda of Conservancy, was the Texas 232 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:26.879 Bigfoot Research Conservancy way back when. We're getting a lot of crap in a 233 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:32.879 lot of the Bigfoot forums back then about their motivation for collecting a specimen and 234 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:34.360 just doing what they're doing in general. And that's one of the things they 235 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:38.480 were talking about on this show this morning, was the fact that they're not 236 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:42.000 doing it for money motivation, because, yeah, they collect money from dues. 237 00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:45.200 That's the main way that they make their money. It's very much like 238 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.039 the BFRO or any other organization that charges people to be a part of their 239 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.120 organization and or goiat on expeditions or whatever. But he's like, look, 240 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:56.840 we're not getting rich. They're a tax exempt organization. So even if they've 241 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:00.000 got a shit ton of money by taking down a Bigfoot, they're not just 242 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.799 going to set around a poker table and divvy it all out and everybody gets 243 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:04.559 hundreds of thousands of dollars. It just doesn't work that way. So he 244 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.400 got into the other part of the motivation. He said, look, as 245 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.400 far as the fame thing is concerned, sure, if you're the person who 246 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.480 goes out and collects a specimen of bigfoot, you take one down, you're 247 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.279 going to have some fame that comes along with that. And I don't think 248 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.200 there's anything wrong with that. I think anybody who accomplishes anything, And to 249 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:25.000 Brian's point in the audio, he says the same thing. Look if somebody 250 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:27.319 goes out and accomplishes anything, and somebody pats you on the back for your 251 00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:30.920 accomplishment, whether it's hey, man, your truck looks great because you just 252 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.759 cleaned it and waxed and washed your wheels or whatever, there's a sense of 253 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:37.960 pride that comes with that, and people are like, oh, it's great, 254 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.680 and you deserve that recognition. Same thing with Bigfoot. Collecting a specimen 255 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:45.160 or collecting evidence. When you're out in Area X or anywhere else, I 256 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.400 think people always kind of point the finger and say, oh, you're just 257 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:51.960 in this for the fame. Well, I think to some extent everybody is. 258 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:53.519 Some people do a really good job at work just to get patted on 259 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:56.920 the back by the boss. Some people call you a brown noser or a 260 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:02.119 kiss ass, whatever. But it's human nature that you want to be recognized 261 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.200 for what you do. So very good points made as far as you know 262 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:08.319 the motivation behind what people do. But to kind of close out the email 263 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.200 before we move on to something else. I agree with everything you had to 264 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:15.680 say about the government agencies. I just caution people to do this on both 265 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:19.240 sides of this argument, whether you're a skeptic or whether you're a believer or 266 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.359 know where, whatever the case may be. I think we get caught up 267 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.039 in this. Sometimes for a lot of people, a lack of evidence to 268 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:30.000 them is evidence. The fact that the government doesn't say one way or the 269 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.079 other that Bigfoot exists, and they say we don't have any evidence one way 270 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:36.559 or the other. People go ah, it just proves that they know. 271 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:40.480 They're just not telling us. A lack of evidence is not evidence. You 272 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:44.519 can't go to a murder scene and try to convict somebody of murder and use 273 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:47.440 a lack of evidence, Well, there was no evidence at all that he 274 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:49.640 committed the crime, so he must be guilty. It doesn't work that way. 275 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:53.519 It doesn't work that way with bigfoot, right, So I caution people 276 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.880 on both sides of the ayele here to just remember that when it comes to 277 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.759 that. And I'm not beating up on d by any stretch of the imagination. 278 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:04.720 It's just I caution people when they get in those situations to say, 279 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:08.079 you know, like you said, you can look at every nuance in the 280 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.400 email. Oh, they put a slash between the names. That's not how 281 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.519 it was when I sent it. Like you said, it's probably a frickin' 282 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.039 I don't answer every single one of my emails. Danny answers a lot of 283 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.119 my emails for me. We might have conversations about it, but the way 284 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.279 he would write it would be completely different than the way I would structure it. 285 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:29.720 So it's technically coming from me, but it's in a different way. 286 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:32.000 I think that's all that It really boils down to. How do you feel 287 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.279 about it, Wyane, the whole situation, the email, the government cover 288 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:38.240 up, do you agree disagree? Kudos to him for taking it that far. 289 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:42.720 Most of us wouldn't sit down and take the time to actually contact government 290 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:48.400 branches, so good on him for doing that. He started out the email, 291 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:52.519 if I remember correctly, his first question was why hasn't anyone with status 292 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.839 in the community challenged the government? When you read that part, the first 293 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:02.920 thing I thought about was didn't Todd standing the Canadian government. I mean, 294 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.279 we all have our opinions on todd Standing, but he is in the community. 295 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:11.000 People know who he is, and he challenged the government. Look what 296 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:15.599 that got him, Absolutely nothing. Stay tuned for more sasquatch oat to see. 297 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:22.359 We'll be right back after these messages. Yet I did respond back. 298 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:25.880 I kind of left that part out. That was one of the first responses 299 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.599 that I sent, and said, look, as far as bigfoot influencers, 300 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.319 I guess there's a book out there of Bigfoot Influencers by Tim Halleran. He's 301 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:37.480 working on a second round of that book. I'm supposed to be included in 302 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.839 that because apparently I'm some sort of a big Foot influencer. And I said, 303 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:44.000 look, I do have a platform with my show, with this show 304 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:48.559 and our network in general, to bring these things out for conversation. I 305 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.720 don't have any problem doing that. The issue for me is anybody I e. 306 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.079 Todd Standing, who would be willing to do that that would be considered 307 00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:02.640 a Bigfoot influencer in the first place, would have to believe that there's some 308 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:06.000 sort of a government cover up to even start that conversation. And I'm just 309 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.960 not there. I'm not that person. I can certainly have conversations with people. 310 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:12.960 I've had some interesting conversations with people over on Sasquatch Outes. I can't 311 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.720 remember his name. He was doing a documentary and he had done another film 312 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.039 before that, very good documentary, Extremely intelligent guy. I had a great 313 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.279 conversation with him. He does a lot of Foyer request I mean, he 314 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.880 is the king of Freedom of Information Act request about Bigfoot and he's gotten a 315 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:33.440 ton of stuff back. I think it's Eric Plasios. I want to say 316 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:37.039 it's Eric Colosios. Forgive me if it's not, but he's done a lot 317 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:38.799 of work with those Foyer requests. But look, here's the other thing about 318 00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:42.000 trying to get information from the government. To your point, Hogan, I 319 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.960 would probably exclude them for the most part in general, because you're not going 320 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:49.279 to get a whole bunch a and if there's really something there. In my 321 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:52.400 opinion that he was at a point where they were trying to charge him like 322 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:56.240 five thousand dollars to get some of this information, He's like, I don't 323 00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:00.359 have five thousand dollars to get this report back, so he's having to whittle 324 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:06.480 it down and be very specific instead of getting one thousand or fifteen hundred documents 325 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:08.519 in return with his four year request, he's going to get like fifty or 326 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:12.359 sixty, but he's kind of learned how to do that because he can get 327 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:17.440 those fifty or sixty for a couple hundred bucks versus they want five thousand dollars 328 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.119 to fill this request. That's the other thing that people don't realize. There's 329 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:23.160 money involved in getting information a lot of times from the government. You can't 330 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.799 just fill out a four year request and like, oh yeah, we'll just 331 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.079 print everything for you and we'll send it out in a FedEx truck and we'll 332 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.000 send you a hard drive as well. No, you're gonna pay for it. 333 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:36.400 So there's a whole lot of reasons in my opinion, to maybe not 334 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:40.079 be involved with trying to get things from the government. Again, to the 335 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:45.319 point of a big influencer or somebody in the know in the community coming out 336 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.680 and trying to get that from the government. If somebody could give me something 337 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.319 definitive enough for me to sink my teeth into and go, oh, I 338 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:56.359 think there's something to this that this proves there may be a conspiracy. Maybe 339 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.319 it's a specific incident where it was covered up. I think there's any of 340 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:03.640 people in the forest Service. Hey, I saw bigfoot. Me and my 341 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:06.759 wife were hiking, or me and my son were hiking and bigfoot stepped out 342 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:10.319 in front of us, and they call a forest ranger from the local post 343 00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:12.759 and the forest ranger comes out and find some footprints and goes that's kind of 344 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:17.559 strange. I've actually heard stories of them going over and scuffing up the footprints 345 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:21.160 and say, oh, it's probably a bear and moving on. Is that 346 00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:25.440 a cover up? Sure could be. Maybe that one person doesn't want to 347 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:27.039 deal with that in their area, maybe they've seen it too many times. 348 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:32.599 And Okay, but it's not this vast cover up by the government. Right, 349 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:36.240 he's a government employee. He did one thing. Whatever. There's a 350 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:38.200 litany of rabbit holes we can go down with the conspiracy stuff. But I 351 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:41.279 certainly want to get into some other questions. Wayne. I know you had 352 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:45.599 some questions. I've had my chance to ask Hogan plenty of questions over on 353 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:47.839 Sasquatch Odyssey. So I'm gonna let you kick it off because I knew you 354 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.759 had some questions that you wanted to get in today. Just the main one, 355 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.200 Hogan, are you being an admitted skeptic, you don't believe that that 356 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:02.759 Bigfoot are real. You are obviously an intelligent guy, very well spoken. 357 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:07.279 So someone that has seen Bigfoot, the thousands of people in this country alone 358 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:12.759 that have reported seeing with their own eyes broad daylight, this thing stepped out, 359 00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:17.000 looked at me and ran away. What do you say to those people 360 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:21.839 that have actually seen something? I mean, are they lying or are they 361 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:25.759 just misidentifying something? How do you answer those people? Brian? I think 362 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:29.599 we touched on this well, we spoke the first time. I never assumed 363 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:33.839 someone's lying. I never put sort of the worst intentions in people. I 364 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:38.359 always think that they're coming at it from an honest perspective, unless they're certain 365 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:44.200 individuals on TV who all they do is fly, you know. But I've 366 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.960 talked to lots of people. I mean, it's amazing. My family knows 367 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:51.839 how much I love the whole Bigfoot stuff. So my kids are always getting 368 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:53.680 me, you know, big foot t shirts and things like that. I'll 369 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.279 maybe maybe I shoot a picture of my ex terra that's all sas squatched out 370 00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:02.680 in fact, and got red eyes on the top, just to play into 371 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.039 a glowing eye stuff. But I actually have a lot of people who come 372 00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:10.160 up to me and I'll see something they go, you know, they're real, 373 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:12.920 I've seen them, and I'll ask them about their experience, you know, 374 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:17.799 because I'm curious about it. I never assume that they're lying. I 375 00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:22.759 think for a lot of those folks it's a misidentification situation. I think a 376 00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:26.599 lot of them did not get as clear of you as they thought they did. 377 00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:30.200 I love when you hear that someone's driving down the road. Hardly anyone 378 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:33.880 goes twenty five miles an hour. We're not driving model teeth forwards these days. 379 00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:38.279 They're ripping down the road. There it was right there on the side 380 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:44.240 of the road. I just think about how many times, anecdotally I've been 381 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:48.480 with people where you whit past a deer or an elk standing on the side 382 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.079 of the road, and you say, hey, did you see that? 383 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:57.240 What? They're not even dried right, they're just passing. I think most 384 00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:02.160 people are far less of it than they think they are, so I think 385 00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:07.440 it's easy to have misidentification in those kind of situations. When I hear the 386 00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:11.079 we were hiking, it stepped out on the trail right in front of us, 387 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:14.319 and those I honestly don't know. As I said to Brian the first 388 00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:18.359 time we done, you never say never in biology. You should never say 389 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:22.880 never, and you should never say always, because it's hard to find laws 390 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:29.759 in biology. There are general principles that tend to hold, but you almost 391 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.240 never find anything that's hard and fast. We used to think we had a 392 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.359 pretty clear picture that Neanderthals were our closest extinct relatives, and we had a 393 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:45.559 common ancestor back four hundred, five hundred thousand years ago. Now recent human 394 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.319 evolution is about as muddy as you can get. Just the other day there 395 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:55.720 was a news speacine that was identified and named to join in the branch. 396 00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:00.519 So I'll never say never, al And that's why I leave it open. 397 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:04.240 And I said to Brian, I mean, I'm in Oregon. I grew 398 00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:07.039 up in the Pacific Northwest. I grew up with a dad who's a hunting 399 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:11.960 fishing guide. I've been hiking, hunting, fishing, camping, backpacking through 400 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:17.839 the Pacific Northwest for a big chunk of my life. I love the Bigfoot 401 00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:21.880 lore and I would love it. It's that's watch existed. To get back 402 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:25.039 to your what do you say to those folks. Honestly, when I talked 403 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:26.119 to him, I say, well, I want to know the detail, 404 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:32.640 the thing that rings true to me, that shows me that either everyone is 405 00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:37.599 seeing the same thing, or everyone has watched the same movies and read the 406 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:44.200 same mythology. Is that, oh, it was ten feet tall and had 407 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:48.440 a pointed head, had no neck, It's hands hung down to its knees. 408 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:55.160 Either they're seeing the same thring or mythology is a really strong force in 409 00:27:55.599 --> 00:28:00.279 a human mind. This kind of gets into the folklore stuff. I don't 410 00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:04.240 want to say that sasquatch or aliens because the Sasquatch exists. I'm in the 411 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:11.200 it's a biological species camp if it exists. But the analogy here is the 412 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:15.920 way that everyone describes aliens when they see them. Every witness who you hear 413 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:21.920 who doesn't talk about reptilions with some other species of alien. Right, they 414 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:26.880 all described Gray's being the exact same. Yeah. Close Encounters of the Third 415 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:33.279 Kind is a pretty popular movie. It permeated the American culture. I think 416 00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:37.200 that a lot of times what we don't understand is how that impacts our Subconchin 417 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.640 Brian, I think I told you about that big black bear that I saw 418 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:45.799 this last year's season where I saw this thing way from probably seventy five yard 419 00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:51.279 draft. I was driving from one hunting area to another, and I see 420 00:28:51.279 --> 00:29:00.000 this big black and brown animal that from that quick glance I was sitting there 421 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:03.720 me being the skeptical person I am, I could have easily said that was 422 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:07.680 a sasquatch. The way it moved, how quick it moved, I could 423 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:11.440 have easily said, man, that thing. It must have been a thousand 424 00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:15.279 pounds. It moves faster than any animal you've ever seen. So what I 425 00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:21.680 did was I hiked over there and found its tracks and was like, huh, 426 00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:25.119 yeah, I'm a big BlackBerry. Probably was a bore. He probably 427 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:29.359 weighed close to maybe three fifty four hundred pounds, so you know, on 428 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:33.319 the big end of a black bear in Oregon. But he wasn't ten feet 429 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.720 tall and weigh a thousand pounds. So I think that something that our minds 430 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:41.519 do without us realizing. It's kind of a survival instinct for any kind of 431 00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:45.960 animal. You see something that you don't know what it is, it's best 432 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:52.559 to assume that it's gigantic and can kill you, rather than it's tiny and 433 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:55.480 cute. I should go up and pet it. Right. I can see 434 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:59.039 if people want to pet the bison in Yellowstone, and I always think to 435 00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:02.759 myself, man wrong with their brain. Their survival instinct is gone, because 436 00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.000 when you see something big and nasty of the forest, I'll just wrap it 437 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.759 up with this really quickly. When I was studying chimpanzees in Africa, I 438 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.680 study them for fifteen years. People would often ask me, well, aren't 439 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:19.680 you afraid of the chimpanzees. Now, I'm not afraid of the chimpanzees. 440 00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:25.119 First off, because the crew there has done an amazing job habituating them. 441 00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:30.480 The directors of the site set down protocols very early on of how to be 442 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:34.400 safe around them and everything else. But the other thing is chimpanzees, but 443 00:30:34.519 --> 00:30:40.200 they stand up right. They're four feet tall at that, like a big 444 00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:44.720 one ninety five to one hundred and five pounds. If they see me walking 445 00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:48.319 through the forest, the only thing I can imagine that they think is that's 446 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:52.279 one big damn animal. I don't want to mess with that, because the 447 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.079 safest thing if you're an animal in any kind of environment is if it's bigger 448 00:30:56.119 --> 00:31:00.480 than me, it can probably kill me and will probably try and eat, 449 00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:04.079 so let's stay away. I think that's what happens in our brains a lot 450 00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:10.079 is we see something without us even knowing right. I won't go lizard brain 451 00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:15.200 as far back, but pretty close to like primal reaction is God, that 452 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.640 thing was huge. Now, I'm not saying that's all of it, because 453 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:25.400 I will leave the door open that there are folks who Jeff Meldrum, who 454 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:29.720 Brian has referenced multiple times that I've heard on this podcast. Jeff and I 455 00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.519 have known each other for twenty years. I think we're not close friends, 456 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:40.599 but we've been in professional conferences and everything together. We've chatted recently about things, 457 00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:44.519 so Jeff has been convinced by the evidence. I would never say that 458 00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:48.039 Jeff is lying or mistaken. I think that Jeff is a really, really 459 00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:55.640 knowledgeable anatomist and functional anatomist. He knows his business. When I talked to 460 00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:57.839 him, I just want to know, like, what is it that hit 461 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:01.160 the tipping point for you? That's what I'm curious about with boats a lot 462 00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:05.759 of times, what they put you over that edge if you were in the 463 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:08.200 skeptical camp. I just talked about Jeff Mildrim because I like to name drop 464 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:10.599 on my show. That's the only reason I mentioned him over and over and 465 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:16.079 over again. So he's a great guy who's also incredibly knowledgeable. I mean 466 00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:21.519 his understanding of the foot and foot mechanics. I had to put that and 467 00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:24.960 go mm hmm, yeah, it's awesome. He definitely is in to feet. 468 00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:29.440 That's a whole nother show. We could probably do just about Jeff Mildram 469 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.480 and his foot fetish. But Wayne, didn't you have some questions about bears 470 00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:36.680 in particularly. I know we've done shows in the past where we've had these 471 00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:40.200 strange stories of kids that say I was taken into the woods by the bears, 472 00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:44.319 and now Wayne, you had a couple of specific questions around that for 473 00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:50.440 Hogan, not necessarily specific. I just wanted to get his opinion on that 474 00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.359 because there are many many cases we've covered him on this show, and I've 475 00:32:53.400 --> 00:33:00.720 covered them on my show Paranormal Odyssey about these kids swearing that they were taken 476 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:08.039 by bear or a big black animal. There was a couple cases where adults 477 00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:16.359 actually witnessed a bear running with a child under one pall and like running on 478 00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:21.920 three legs. I don't know if you've heard anything like that. Would you 479 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:24.079 get any kind of credence, any kind of credibility to a story like that. 480 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:30.000 No, I wouldn't give any kind of credence to those claims. Anatomically, 481 00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:37.000 the idea that something can be bipedal and then switched to quadrupedalism, it 482 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:45.000 doesn't work in nature our own ancestry. The shift to bipedalism was a major 483 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:50.960 anatomical shift. It requires huge differences. We referenced doctor Meltrium a few minutes 484 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.799 ago. He even says that when he talks about Sasquatch as a biped it's 485 00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:59.519 a different kind of biped than we are. But still the pelvis is going 486 00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:02.599 to be completely different, The way your spine connects is going to be completely 487 00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:06.799 different, the curvature of your spine is going to be different. You're not 488 00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:08.360 going to be able to drop down to all fours. So the idea of 489 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:15.159 something running on three with something tucked under an arm or front leg, honestly, 490 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:20.079 that just sounds like a story. But as far as kids claiming they 491 00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:24.239 were let into the forest, kids make up a lot of stuff, especially 492 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:28.199 kids who are going to get in trouble for going in places that they're not 493 00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:31.039 supposed to go. But one of the things about the Sasquatch lord I think 494 00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:37.679 is really interesting gets back to the idea of mythology and folklore, is that 495 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:42.920 if you look at the like everyone likes to reference Native American stories about Bigfoot, 496 00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:45.880 right, They've been around for hundreds of years. Almost all the Native 497 00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:50.440 American cultures that we know of have a reference to the hairy Man, the 498 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:54.800 whatever. Yeah, that's a great boogeyman. The forest is really dangerous for 499 00:34:54.920 --> 00:35:00.280 kids, and if you want your kids to stay alive, you want them 500 00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:02.960 to stay out of certain areas, and the best way to do that is 501 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.239 to scare the crap out of them. When I was a kid in southern 502 00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:15.280 California, and Brian as a former police officer, you know this kind of 503 00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:17.360 story. Well, Like, when I was a kid in southern California, 504 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:23.119 the most dangerous thing that our parents told us about were the kidnap bands right 505 00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:30.039 where the white vans with nothing on the side and there's no windows. At 506 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.360 one point, when I was in elementary school, we were living in Orange 507 00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:37.800 County. The parents in that area had kids so worked up that the florist 508 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:43.639 van would pull up and kids would take off running like they were just freaked 509 00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:45.199 out. That somebody who's going to grab you and take you away and you 510 00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:51.119 never see your mom and dad again. When I hear the stories about the 511 00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:54.159 wild men of the forests that are children eaters that will take the kids, 512 00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:01.480 it's the same story. It's just a different contest. It's literally, I 513 00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:06.199 don't want you to die when you're young and dumb. I want you to 514 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:09.920 live. So here's a boogeyman for you to be afraid of, and that 515 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:15.239 will keep you. You know, with my kids, I described cars as 516 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:21.039 five thousand pounds predators like that thing moves a lot faster than you do, 517 00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:24.679 and it weighs five pounds and you don't so you keep your eyes on that 518 00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:29.119 and you make sure that it's not coming before you cross the road. So 519 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:34.719 I think that all of those things kind of combine and we grow up having 520 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:38.079 this in our subconscious And I think for kids, mom and dad told you 521 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:43.000 don't go into the forest, and you decided I'm going to go into the 522 00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:46.559 forest, and then you get caught. It wasn't my fault. The bear 523 00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:51.760 led me into the forest. Now Mom and Dad are just worried about you. 524 00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.440 You're not grounded anymore. Or however, kids get punished these days. 525 00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:58.719 I don't know, you take their phone away from them for twelve minutes or 526 00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:01.000 whatever. Yeah, yeah, but you can't do that if the bear did 527 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.119 it. I want to be respectful your time. So I want to get 528 00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:07.519 a couple of questions in here that I thought were interesting because I came up 529 00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:13.360 with them. Are there any known species that exhibit physical or behavioral characteristics similar 530 00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:15.480 to the descriptions of Sasquatch. I kind of already know the answer to that, 531 00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:19.440 but I want to get your take on that, because that's something that 532 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:21.880 we hear over and over. I mean, Wayne and I just did an 533 00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:28.119 entire show about you mentioned the movies and the influence that movies like The Close 534 00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:32.440 Encounters of the Third Kind had on the phenomenon of UFOs and aliens in the 535 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:37.840 Grays. We just did an entire show about the Legend of Boggia Creek because 536 00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.880 Wayne and I had never seen the movie. So we sat down and watched 537 00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:45.920 the movie just a couple of weeks ago. See that he's surprised, the 538 00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:49.320 skeptic of surprise. We've never seen the Legend of Boggy Creek, but we 539 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:52.400 watched it. Then we had a conversation about it on this show and talked 540 00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:55.599 about For me, it was more And I've got the notes here where I 541 00:37:55.639 --> 00:38:00.199 wrote down all the things in the movies, and you alluded to some of 542 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:07.639 it earlier, like the steel feeling, the smell, the unexplained fear dogs 543 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:13.159 not tracking sasquatch, the sour pigs smell, the horrible smell that comes along 544 00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:16.880 the roadside crossing, the jiggling of the door knobs, and the things that 545 00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:22.079 people describe in their encounters. That's one of the things that we had a 546 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:28.000 conversation about the influence that some of that stuff has. But there are characteristics 547 00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:34.039 like rock throwing, vocalizations, bluff charges that are very specific to what we 548 00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:36.880 know of great apes. So can you talk a little bit about some of 549 00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:39.000 that and how you see that playing out. Do you think it's just an 550 00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:45.119 influence of knowing this ape behavior, knowing what happened in the legend of Biggie 551 00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:47.480 Creek, or do you think it's possible, maybe even hypothetically, that if 552 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:53.320 sasquatch exists, that there would be some correlations between say, chimpanzees, gorillas, 553 00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:58.199 even the rangutans as far as the ape family is concerned. Yeah, 554 00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:04.400 I mean That's actually probably one of the reasons why I keep such an open 555 00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:10.719 mind is that a lot of the descriptions that people give who don't necessarily know 556 00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:16.920 when they're going into it that chimpanzees will occasionally pick up rocks and throw them. 557 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:22.719 They throw them underhanded. They don't have the same rotator cuff ability that 558 00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:27.920 we do, so they don't have the precision throwing overhand that we do. 559 00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:32.880 When you hear people talk about sasquatch throwing rocks, it sounds pretty precise the 560 00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:37.960 way people describe it. It's the rock at the side of the house. 561 00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:42.320 There's a rock that landed next to us, sort of thing, like they're 562 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:46.119 just not chucking them and wherever they land, they land in the descriptions, 563 00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:52.960 but just the fact that they're using something from their environment as part of their 564 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:58.599 displays. Some apes do that, for sure. Gorillas do that by breaking 565 00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:01.960 trees in half. They're pretty powerful, so when they want to incorporate something, 566 00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:07.079 they nap off a sapling. And I don't know if you guys have 567 00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.000 ever heard the story of Mike from Gomby, the chimpanzee who became alpha male 568 00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:19.320 by rolling petroleum cans back when Jane goodol first started, the chimps were being 569 00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:22.800 baited with beating boxes with bananas and them to get them to come in because 570 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:27.519 they were having a hard time, and they didn't understand at the time. 571 00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.880 There just wasn't the background, so they didn't understand the impact of getting the 572 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:35.960 chimps to think of food source as being there. So the chimps were coming 573 00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:40.800 into camp and checking things out. One of the males, not very big, 574 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:47.119 not very high ranking at the time, discovered that if he displayed and 575 00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:53.280 flipped the empty petrol cans down the trail and all the other chimps scattered, 576 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:58.559 it scared scared to death than they just ran, and he very quickly became 577 00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:04.880 alpha male bothered most of the offspring for the next several years, implementing things 578 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:07.559 from the environment. Not surprising. This is one of the questions that I 579 00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:12.599 thought was interesting. They all were interesting, but this for me was one 580 00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:16.239 of the more interesting ones. A lot of the behaviors we would expect to 581 00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:22.599 see from a large eight the calls, yeah, I mean a lot of 582 00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:24.760 the calls. You know. I think there's a lot going on there that 583 00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:30.440 people just start recognizing, and people aren't realizing the variation in animal calls and 584 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:35.800 things, things like the descriptions of them possibly living in kind of a family 585 00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:42.599 unit. Most states don't do that. Gorillas live in single male, multiple 586 00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:47.079 female groups. Typically chimpanzees live in multiple male, multiple female groups. O 587 00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:52.559 Rangutans live solitary lives for the most part, or really small groups because they're 588 00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:58.079 food sources. It's all dictated by how much food is available, and then 589 00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:02.480 female selection comes in there, so like in gorillas, females have selected for 590 00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:07.639 bigger and bigger and stronger males, so now you get single males that can 591 00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:14.239 control a group basically, and the females attach themselves to one big male with 592 00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:19.360 a Ranguetanser's is not that opportunity. Their food sources are widely dispersed. They 593 00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:21.960 can't get in big groups. And when they can, when they have like 594 00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:27.920 these fruiting seasons where trees just get act with fruit, orangutans will regularly come 595 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:32.159 together and they'll interact. Carl von Scheike, a professor from Duke University, 596 00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:37.199 has done some really nice research on that. When I hear about the sasquatch 597 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:43.599 thing, the family groups stuff is stuff where I go, yeah, maybe 598 00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:52.039 that's more a human characteristic to be in family units, but usually those family 599 00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:59.000 units are within larger groups for humans, groups that range from like hunter gatherer 600 00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:02.000 groups that range from forty two one hundred and fifty people. That sort of 601 00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:07.719 thing. The idea that it's one big male, his lady and their kids 602 00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:15.199 sounds like the leave it to Beaver's sort of image of American life, So 603 00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:20.119 to me, sounds a lot like projection. Again, Brian, when we 604 00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:24.119 talked originally and I was talking about the superhero component of Bigfoot descriptions, these 605 00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:30.920 days, there's a lot of idellic descriptions about Bigfoot. Right. They live 606 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:36.599 in these family groups that are in tune with nature. They understand it better 607 00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:40.239 than we do. I love how the same people will describe how in harmony 608 00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:45.199 with nature they are. Yet we found this deer with its next snap, 609 00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:47.760 and I'm like, yeah, that was harmonious for the deer. I think 610 00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:52.880 that there are behaviors that are described with what we'd expect from a large rape. 611 00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:57.639 You guys mentioned Todd Standing earlier. I just watched one of his videos 612 00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:01.800 recently where he was talking about Jake and Jane. I think the brothers sister 613 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:07.039 Sasquatches that he claims to have on video and he's talking about they're two years 614 00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:13.679 apart. Let me just say this really quickly. If Sasquatches were to live 615 00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:20.480 in family groups male and female that are having kids, there's no aide that 616 00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:25.639 has offspring two years apart, not even Gibbon. None of the great apes 617 00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:30.400 have offspring that are less than four years apart, three to four years apart, 618 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:37.239 Matt, because they have to nurse that long to get strong enough to 619 00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:42.800 be able to start foraging on their own. There are lots of reasons to 620 00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:46.519 question Todd's stuff in my opinion, but just when he said that right out 621 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:49.679 of the gate, I was like, see it now. I don't believe 622 00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:53.719 anything else that you say when you're saying that these are their ages, because 623 00:44:53.760 --> 00:45:00.440 none of it matches with what an animal that big would have to do to 624 00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:07.480 raise offsprings successfully. And stay tuned for more sasquatch Otysey, We'll be right 625 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:16.440 back after these messages. Hunter gatherer groups nursing regularly lasts for two plus years 626 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:22.159 and results in blactational elementary a good way to keep your birth spacing apart as 627 00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:28.639 long as you're nursing all the time on demand females don't ovulate, So the 628 00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:32.519 idea that Sasquatch are cranking them out every two years. First, just think 629 00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:38.320 of that every two years, how big would that population be, even if 630 00:45:38.360 --> 00:45:45.400 you started with just a couple hundred individuals. That's exponential growth there. So 631 00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:51.559 I think that these are things where scientific minds and people who know the subject 632 00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:54.800 are going to go see it doesn't match up when things start to fall into 633 00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:58.280 place. That's where, like way in your question, you know, when 634 00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:04.239 you ask about the people seeing these things and you hear the descriptions, that's 635 00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:08.320 where the good skeptical mind goes, Okay, hold on, there may be 636 00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:13.000 something here. Maybe we need to look at this further. As I told 637 00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:15.400 you before, Brian, I mean, I've told Cliff and other folks that 638 00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:20.760 if they want to get serious about doing censuses and bigfoot areas and Brian, 639 00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:22.559 we can talk about this about your property at some point if you want to 640 00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:28.840 about setting up census tracks and doing regular monitoring. You know, because I 641 00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:32.199 know that you appreciate that approach. I think that's where things need to lead. 642 00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:37.639 That's kind of my big message I think is that we need to get 643 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:42.760 more structured around things that people want to get serious about getting back to what 644 00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:45.119 we opened the show with. You know, if people want to get serious 645 00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:52.039 about finding out the facts, lining up all these descriptions and everything, they're 646 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:55.159 really useful. But then there's the next step, right that opens the door 647 00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:01.440 for Okay, let's start trying to verify rather than these kind of different groups 648 00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:06.239 that are taking different approaches. One last thing, really quickly. We don't 649 00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:07.280 have to spend a ton of time on this, but this has come up 650 00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:10.000 over and over and over again, and it's been in my mind since I've 651 00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.039 been editing some of the stuff with Area X and I'm gonna put out later 652 00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:19.880 because there is this question of if and when these things are proven to be 653 00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:23.159 real they're accepted by science. Everybody has these opinions about what's going to happen. 654 00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:28.280 The lumber industry is going to collapse. There's going to be thousands, 655 00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:31.159 probably millions of acres that are just sucked up by the government and given to 656 00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:36.519 sasquatch to protect the environments of where these things are living. Let's talk a 657 00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:39.039 little bit about what you would see, even if it's hypothetic or you want 658 00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:44.360 to compare it to say, I did the newsletter last week talking about some 659 00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:47.079 of the species that we have stepped in as human We being the human race, 660 00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:52.119 have stepped in and helped build back up their numbers, the California condor, 661 00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:54.400 the cheetah, even the gorillas. Let's talk a little bit about what 662 00:47:54.480 --> 00:48:01.840 you would see as the potential ecological and environmental factors that would change or be 663 00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:07.039 affected by these things being proven as a species, and then we have to 664 00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:12.599 step in and try to protect those ecological resources and their environments that we believe 665 00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:15.840 these things are in. Yeah. So first, I mean everyone thought when 666 00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:21.840 the government finally released the UFO information it was going to be a game changer. 667 00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:25.159 Everything was going to change. They had congressional hearings this last summer. 668 00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:30.719 Paid close attention to the hearings. The government didn't say, oh, yeah, 669 00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:37.159 there's little space aliens out there. They verified that there are these unidentified 670 00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:42.480 objects that they've interacted and that there are things that don't appear to be technology 671 00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:46.039 that we have currently. They didn't say, ah, they came from you 672 00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:51.280 know, pick your favorite exo planet that you want to pick. It didn't 673 00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:57.079 change anything, didn't change the narratives of people at all. Ardently religious folks 674 00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:01.679 didn't suddenly say, oh, crap, aliens. Things are completely different for 675 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:07.599 US folks who already believe they're aliens. All it did for them was they 676 00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:10.559 went see we were right all along. That's the first thing I think that 677 00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:17.400 if and when I'll say if sasquatch is ever shown to be a biological species, 678 00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:20.239 I think for a lot of people, it's not going to change a 679 00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:25.800 lot. They're gonna go okay for the government. First off, the logging 680 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:30.480 industry will collapse because of its own ineptitudes, their lack of understanding of ecology 681 00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:35.000 itself. It will keep going as long as people need toilet paper. I 682 00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:37.559 mean, honestly, the idea that the government is just going to snatch up 683 00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:43.119 all these acres. Have they done that for grizzly bears? No? Have 684 00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:47.800 they done that for gray wolves? No? Two pretty big charismatic species that 685 00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:52.519 you can put whole campaigns around. Here. In Oregon, we just had 686 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:58.280 wolves delisted off the endangered species list on the east side of the Cascades because 687 00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:04.199 ranchers are concerned about them killing their calves. They kill a couple of calves 688 00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:08.920 a year between six or seven different packs, and the ranchers get financially compensated 689 00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:14.960 top market value for those calves, so they're not really losing on it. 690 00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:19.760 But the point there is the government is not proactive. They're not going to 691 00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:22.760 come in and go, well, hey, now there may be a huge 692 00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:30.159 ground swell of folks who demand that some area be cordoned off, but you'd 693 00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:35.400 have to declare something, put it into the monument's bill that you have to 694 00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:40.559 fit it into that. You've already got places like the Cascade Siscu National Monument 695 00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:46.400 that's already a protected area, that's a big supposed to squatch area. So 696 00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:52.159 I don't see that happening. I don't know that it changes things drastically for 697 00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:55.639 folks in their own personal narrative. I think where it would shake things up 698 00:50:55.880 --> 00:51:02.079 massively, of course, is within the scientific arena. I think academics would 699 00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:07.599 go bananas. I think that would make it almost worthwhile the chaos it would 700 00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:10.400 cause an academia. I think here's the other thing that it would do for 701 00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:16.920 those of us who are interested, maybe on the academic side or scientific community 702 00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:22.320 side, it would force us to have to rethink how we kind of think 703 00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:29.360 of things fitting within ecological niches, and how we think of things evolutionarily, 704 00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:32.960 because we don't have any non human primates that are in North America that we 705 00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:38.159 know, sasquatch would be the only one, so that itself would make things 706 00:51:38.199 --> 00:51:45.320 really odd. I mentioned before that most of the descriptions of sasquatch fit it 707 00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:53.280 within a bare ecological niche, and in most biomes, large species do not 708 00:51:53.480 --> 00:52:00.039 share ecological niches. There's a reason that lions and tigers don't overlap even in 709 00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:04.519 Asia, and they don't even share the exact same hunting knit but they're both 710 00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:09.159 large cats that are hunting large animals. So if you have sasquatch basically filling 711 00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:13.679 the same niche as black bears and living in the same area as black bears, 712 00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:17.599 scientifically, that's gonna cause a lot of folks in biology to rethink how 713 00:52:17.599 --> 00:52:22.480 they structure niches. Waine, did you have anything else before we let Hogan 714 00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:25.119 get out of here? No, I can't think of anything right now, 715 00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:29.039 but I'm sure I will soon as we get off here. That means we 716 00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:31.159 just have to do a round three. Hogan. I cannot thank you enough 717 00:52:31.159 --> 00:52:34.840 for coming back on having a conversation with Wayne and I. Man, it 718 00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:37.159 is always a blast to talk to you. We appreciate you very much. 719 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:43.599 Safe travels on your upcoming I guess expeditions would be the right word, not 720 00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:46.119 for Sasquatch but for other great apes. You keep your head on a swivel 721 00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:50.559 out there, Man, it sounds like you're going into a hairy situation out 722 00:52:50.559 --> 00:52:53.039 there. Oh thanks, It's going to be a blast. It's actually gonna 723 00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:58.159 be my daughter's graduation present from high school, so she's been wanting to go 724 00:52:58.199 --> 00:53:00.519 to Africa since she was three. Doing it. Yeah, But before that, 725 00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:05.559 I'll be at the Glide Sasquatch Festival to check that out. Second year 726 00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:08.320 in a row and Glide Oregon. It's a fun little event. Belgrum was 727 00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:12.280 there last year. I know that you guys hit those up every once in 728 00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:14.880 a while. They're fun. But you know, I'll just say this really 729 00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:17.920 quickly too, about that we're talking about the folks with the notoriety. I 730 00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:21.719 mean, look at some of the people who show up there at some of 731 00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:24.480 the festivals. You think Mick Jagger walked in the room. For a few 732 00:53:24.519 --> 00:53:29.199 minutes. That's how I feel everywhere I go with Wayne, It's just like 733 00:53:29.320 --> 00:53:32.360 Mick Jagger has walked into the room and everybody's clamoring to get to them. 734 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:37.400 Brian, I just want to say that I completely agree with you. For 735 00:53:37.480 --> 00:53:40.599 folks who accomplish things that they get recognized by their community or by other folks, 736 00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:45.559 they totally deserve it. But the endorphin rush that people get from being 737 00:53:45.639 --> 00:53:51.440 Mick Jagger walking in the room, it can get pretty addictive, and that's 738 00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:54.480 part of our natural biology too, so we can't blame folks for that at 739 00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:58.400 all. For me, it's just fun to watch how people get kind of 740 00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:01.840 a fanboy over a certain folks walking in I always look at it as not 741 00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:05.840 just we all put our pants on one leg at a time. Everybody gets 742 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:07.800 cranky, everybody gets hungry, everybody needs a way to blow off steam. 743 00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:12.360 We're all just human. So I look forward to engage a few more folks 744 00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:15.639 this year and see if we can get some good conversation going about their evidence 745 00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:19.960 that they've actually seen. Who knows, maybe we'll cross pass at one of 746 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:22.559 those one day. Brian, good to see you again, Wayne, Nice 747 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:24.199 to meet you man. Yeah you too, buddy, I look forward to 748 00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:28.800 future conversations. There you have it, Wayne, that was a cool conversation. 749 00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:30.119 It sounds like we've got plenty of stuff. I mean, I only 750 00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:32.920 got to a couple of the questions that I really wanted to get to today's 751 00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:37.320 Pogan is an interesting guy. I like his approach. He's certainly into the 752 00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:40.880 Bigfoot thing. He likes the phenomenon. I think that's what makes him approachable 753 00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:44.679 when it comes to these things, because there are PhDs, there are other 754 00:54:44.679 --> 00:54:47.519 people out there that are just ard and skeptics that you can't get anywhere with. 755 00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:52.320 I love the fact that he is so skeptical and he comes from a 756 00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:57.920 very scientific based approach to this, but he wants the phenomenon to be real. 757 00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:00.719 He wants these things to be real. I think that's the real allure 758 00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:04.400 for me to talk to people like him. I love his approach to the 759 00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:07.280 subject. This is the first time you got to have a conversation with him. 760 00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:09.480 What are your thoughts closing out on the conversation with Hogan. Yeah, 761 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:14.320 I remember when you had him on before. I've talked about it. There's 762 00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:20.119 been a few times where you will send me the audio from an interview one 763 00:55:20.119 --> 00:55:23.599 that you find particularly interesting, like the sex with Sasquats one was one of 764 00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:29.280 them. Doctor Hogan Trueau was another one you sent it to me before you 765 00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:30.280 put it out, you know, just to get my opinion on it. 766 00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:35.199 I remember telling you and I think I might've said this on the episode. 767 00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:37.960 Hogan seems like a good dude. He seems like one of us, Like 768 00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:42.639 we would get along really well with them, we go out and have a 769 00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:45.000 beer, shoot the shit with you know. He just seemed like a really 770 00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:50.480 good dude. One thing that I really like, he just touched on it, 771 00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:52.960 I think is awesome. He is a skeptic. He's a skeptic because 772 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:59.320 he's very scientific minded. He's extremely intelligent. You can tell that he doesn't 773 00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:04.320 think that they're real yet he has all this bigfoot shit. He talked about 774 00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:07.800 his exterra being decked out with all kind of sasquat stuff, just like my 775 00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:13.599 jeep is. Because I love the topic the phenomena. He doesn't think they're 776 00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:16.519 real, but he wants them to be real. I think that's really really 777 00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:21.440 cool. As always, you get the last word on the show. All 778 00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:25.199 right, everybody, We appreciate all of the continued support. Please write in 779 00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:30.599 review every chance that you get. Keep those emails coming, the voicemails. 780 00:56:30.639 --> 00:56:34.239 We love getting those. Until we talk to you again, y'all. Take 781 00:56:34.280 --> 00:58:22.760 care of yourself, take care of each other. Bye, und