WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.560 I've got a good friend of mine he thinks the whole thing with Bigfoot as 2 00:00:03.560 --> 00:00:06.000 a hopes. I'm not going to argue with him. But you know when 3 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:10.880 the phenomena is worldwide, and how things like the Last Day of the Russians 4 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:15.439 and the Yetty and you got the year, and you know all these other 5 00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:19.280 names for the same creature, and they all say the same thing, that 6 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:23.120 they'd like to kidnap women and children or whatever. When you hear these stories 7 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:26.399 and it's based worldwide, you have to scratch your head, nesk, and 8 00:00:26.519 --> 00:00:31.839 you look at the little people like Iusa. Are there otherWe just reported Leprechauns 9 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:36.679 or these other entities like Tommy Knockers and others are around the world, And 10 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:40.399 a lot of people just disregard those things. And I think what you really 11 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.119 have to do is apply yourself to look into it. And a lot of 12 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:46.679 people won't do that. Either they're afraid or they're just they don't care. 13 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:52.119 It doesn't affect in that until it happens in them. And I've filled it 14 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:55.520 thousands of pote calls in the last twenty years. And I used to get 15 00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:58.240 a lot of emails and things and talk to people and there's really funny, 16 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:02.079 man. The one line, ohs her for people. I didn't believe in 17 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:06.159 this stuff until keyword, until it happened to me, and just like you 18 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:11.079 and me, and so now here we are on a podcast together talking about 19 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:15.680 this stuff. And my whole thing is the reason I'm on your podcast is 20 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:19.079 I want people to know there's people like you and me that have had these 21 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.640 experiences. And they may laugh, That's okay. I don't care laugh at 22 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:25.719 me. Laugh all you what, when it happened to you, you'll be 23 00:01:25.760 --> 00:02:04.799 a believer. I'd like to welcome Ron Cross to Bigfoot Crossroads. Ron crossed 24 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:08.159 my path or I crossed his path fairly recently. On Facebook, of all 25 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:14.960 places, Ron started a group I believe you started the group Strange Oklahoma, 26 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:20.199 which is booming, and of course caught my attention, being from Oklahoma and 27 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.680 being into anything strange, I had to check it out and wow, man, 28 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:30.479 what a great resource, not just for Oklahoma but everywhere. No, 29 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:35.439 I'd agree with you. Actually it was Annalie Judd that started it, and 30 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:38.400 I made a post on the page, and I guess, you know, 31 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:42.560 a lot of the things I said makes sense. Of course, you know 32 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:46.800 my background, I home to certification im pir psychology and had been investigating the 33 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:53.400 paranormal for well over forty years now, and so I could answer people. 34 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:57.159 And I've always been a person likes to help people, not all about me. 35 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.719 But I'm just telling you a little bit, so your listeners who understand. 36 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:07.080 So I do emergency management stuff and search and rescue. I'm a certain 37 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:15.439 instructor search stands for emergent or community Emergency response team, and so I do 38 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:17.719 that, and I do that as an instructor for the state and hold classes 39 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:23.520 and teach people about cert and what they need to do to be prepared for 40 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:28.240 disasters. And so it's part of my nature not to get out there and 41 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:34.159 help people. And so I started answering questions and I grew up, you 42 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:40.159 know, my whole life since about four having these paranormal experiences. So I 43 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:45.719 also investigated Oklahoma City bombing and tried to get the truth out there, a 44 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:47.599 lot of things. We could have a whole show on that, but we 45 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:53.680 want is it safe to talk about that yet? Well, you can now 46 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:57.639 that there's a lot of stuff that's been removed off of the Internet about what 47 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:01.639 really happened and the things I know and so a lot of people that information 48 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:05.000 is trickled down, So a lot of people, just like the JFK assassination, 49 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:11.919 they're asking questions, and there's a lot of questions aren't easily answered, 50 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.360 like all the one car accidents that people that saw things during that time with 51 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:20.160 JFK and having heart attacks and so there's these things are coming out, you 52 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:25.720 know, and so people are asking questions, and sometimes it's years and years 53 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:30.399 later. Most people are wrapped up in things like ballgames and another entertainment instead 54 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:33.600 of being educated, so they get wrapped up in the set. They don't 55 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:38.000 think it affects them, but later it does. And then somebody presents a 56 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:41.439 question somewhere and people get to look at it and go, you know, 57 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:46.879 that's really seems odd and it's not correct, So I want to look into 58 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.600 it. So in that page, that Facebook page, that's exactly what I 59 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:54.360 started doing. It's answering questions. And of course with all the experience that 60 00:04:54.399 --> 00:05:00.639 I have, even working with Dennis hook or how he was a a consultant 61 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.800 for the movie White Noise in two thousand and five, and so he kind 62 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:10.120 of mentored me along the way, and I took some courses and anyway, 63 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:13.160 So he kind of helped me out with some of my stuff and answered a 64 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:16.000 lot of questions. And so I knew in time that he basically said, 65 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:18.639 well, Ron, I guess you're on your own. And I'm like, 66 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:24.319 what does that mean? So I found out quickly that in some cases that 67 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:27.879 there were things I knew about that he hadn't engaged in, and so I 68 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.959 had to find my own path, so to speak. And so, yeah, 69 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:33.480 I do a lot of things to try to help people, and it's 70 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:38.879 not because of my ego. Nobody on that site. Just so you know, 71 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:43.199 on Strange notice anything about my website, I don't promote it. I 72 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.680 don't promote myself. I just talk about that. I let people know my 73 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:51.519 background so they can either respect for me or not. But you can't argue 74 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:56.319 with the facts. And as you see when I put a post on Strange 75 00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:04.639 Oklahoma, I refer quite often to critical thinking and looking at people like Victor 76 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:09.879 Zama, who was a twenty five year attorney or i'll say, who's retired 77 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:14.279 now. And so he was in New Zealand, I believe, and for 78 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:17.079 twenty five years who studied the paranormal and the question of life after death, 79 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:21.759 and so that led into a bunch of things that people just don't know. 80 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:29.360 And so he explained it, and he worked with people like Rodov, who 81 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:34.839 was the one that discovered will say and brought it to the people that were 82 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:39.480 researching the paranormal was scientists, and Ron out Of himself was a scientist, 83 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:44.480 and then George Meeks same thing, he's a scientist. And so these guys 84 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.199 worked with this stuff and they figured out there's all kinds of things that where 85 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:53.920 the voices could potentially come from, and that science can't explain it, and 86 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.639 so they all like to talk about it. And you know, when you 87 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:00.920 talk to somebody about parapsychology, the first thing typical lay out of their mouth 88 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:03.759 is this, well, you know, that's a pseudoscience. And Matt, 89 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:08.839 you and I understand it when you talk about science that you have to have 90 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:13.360 all the factors. Well, so somebody from the fifteenth century to walk in 91 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:15.240 the room, you flipped the switch and the light came on, they would 92 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:19.720 think that's a form of magic, but they don't understand what's really happening here 93 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:25.360 with all the relay wires and the connections, and that there's a power plant 94 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:29.759 and that power's being generated and sent down the line and etc. Or center, 95 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:32.120 so they just know that you flipped that switch from all of a sudden, 96 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:38.480 we have this light on, and so it's the same thing. We 97 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:43.439 don't know all the factors in parapsychology. We just know that there's people that 98 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:46.759 are out there that are mediums and psychics and others that have this gift and 99 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:51.800 we don't understand it. So science can never really study it. So what 100 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:57.319 do they call it pseudoscience because they don't have all the factors. Yeah, 101 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:01.600 that's something I talk about quite often as a matter of fact. Fairly recently, 102 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:07.040 I've mentioned it a few times about how whenever it comes to this sort 103 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:11.480 of thing, the paranormal, whatever you want to label it as, it's 104 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:20.959 just a matter of we don't have the right tools or instrumentation to really document 105 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.920 it and measure it, which is what science pretty much requires before it starts 106 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:33.120 acknowledging things specifically as fact. And there's just things here that we know that 107 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:39.200 they happen. That's undeniable. It's just being able to put it in a 108 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:43.679 box and study it. That's the part that we can't do. I used 109 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:48.000 to think replication was a huge factor. But actually, now that I'm older, 110 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:52.120 I've seen so many things happen time and time again. I don't even 111 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:58.399 think repeating things is that difficult anymore in some situations. No, I agree 112 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:01.879 with each and completely. That's why I said they call it pseudoscience advissity. 113 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:07.559 They don't have that full understanding. And you know, I've seen psychic and 114 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:11.799 medium walk into a room or a location and I would I wouldn't give them 115 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:16.440 the address. They knew nothing except hours before maybe you know, to get 116 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:20.759 there. And they would walk in and they would have names. There's no 117 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:26.519 way they've kind of gotten information on specifically things that happened at that location, 118 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:31.879 would just say involving the Dark Arts, and they would know, and they 119 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:35.559 would know the minimum condition of the person that did it and the things that 120 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.480 they would do. And you're just it's like, there there must be something 121 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:45.000 that they're reading from. I mean, how do even if all the information 122 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:48.879 they presented they could remember it all, you know, And so they walk 123 00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:54.519 in and they describe everything to a tea, whether it's a spirit that we're 124 00:09:54.559 --> 00:10:00.360 investigating or some something more. You know, along the dark Arts would know 125 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.480 these things. And so when you see that you have to ask those questions. 126 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:07.960 And why is it that a lot of people think that psychics aren't real 127 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:11.559 because they don't know the facts of being hidden from them. And I think 128 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:16.519 that on an educational level, I dare say that they don't want to talk 129 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:20.279 about this stuff an educational level because somebody who's going to scribe your head raise 130 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.639 your hand and say, well, professor, we're paying you how much running 131 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.679 and you're supposed to know this stuff, and you don't, And so they're 132 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:31.240 not going to talk about it. And nobody wants to talk about it. 133 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.279 And even from a religious standpoint, a lot of that stuff we don't understand, 134 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.320 so it must come from the dark side. But what I've seen is 135 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:43.200 a lot of times these gifts, if you want to call them, that 136 00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:50.399 these abilities are being used for the good of the people. And I've experienced 137 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:54.720 that more than once. I would work with a psychic who's working presently with 138 00:10:56.679 --> 00:11:01.679 believe it or not, the military and law enforcement and so even the Catholic 139 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:07.600 Church, and so I have a conversation with her, and I'll take her 140 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.039 to a location if it's really bad things going on in the words to say, 141 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:13.440 and I don't know how she knows that. I don't know how she 142 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:18.720 does, and she comes up with stuff. In one incident, my better 143 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:26.720 half was with me then and this person was telling me things, and she 144 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:31.960 said, Ron, go inside this closet and look on the floor, and 145 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:35.399 there's candle wax there. And so it was kind of a little little closet 146 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:39.039 that wasn't finished and you could use the store. So I opened the door 147 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:41.960 and there's no light in there. So I shined the flashlight and I said, 148 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.360 I'm not seeing it. And so she leaning out and she's tapping on 149 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:48.519 the wall. She said, no, rad, it's right here and it's 150 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:52.639 red. Now. She'd never been in the house, never went into that 151 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:58.519 room. We all went upstairs together. I walked in there further and guess 152 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:01.600 what, you know what happened that red candi wax exactly where she said? 153 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:09.000 How can she know? How do they know? And it's these abilities that 154 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:13.120 you really have to question and and and a lot of people don't have that 155 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:20.440 experience are they think it's all fake. But once you have those experience, 156 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.480 whether it's Bigfoot or somebody else something else like a cryptit or a ghost or 157 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:31.159 alaien, whatever, then you begin to understand so in my book and the 158 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.559 way I see it, you're walking down this long tunnel, and the closer 159 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.799 you get to the interests of the unknown, the more you understand. But 160 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:46.000 once you step into that that uh, that clearing from that tunnel, you 161 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:50.600 realize how big that that failed really is, so to speak, if that 162 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:58.399 makes sense. Something I also talk about quite often is the amount of overlap 163 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:03.159 whenever it comes to this stuff, and how it's almost like once the light 164 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.600 switch is flipped on, your entire world changes. Very rarely do I talk 165 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:13.440 to somebody about their particular encounter, whether it be bigfoot or paranormal or whatever. 166 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:20.919 After talking to them about their initial encounter, I ask, is there 167 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:26.519 anything else that you've encountered besides this? And just about every time, yes, 168 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:33.799 there is, and it's usually paranormal, ENCRYPTID and UFOs. It usually 169 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:41.080 runs the gambit. There's oftentimes an entire lifetime filled with these sort of experiences, 170 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:46.000 something that I personally can attest to for myself. You know, I 171 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.000 was experiencing paranormal things at a very young age, and my life has just 172 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:56.320 been filled with that sort of activity on a pretty regular basis. And I 173 00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:01.200 heard you mentioned that you also started having paranormal experience is at a very early 174 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:07.039 age. Is that kind of what urged you to become an investigator? Well, 175 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:16.159 then I'll say this, I'm a twin and fortunately my twin brother he 176 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:20.559 experienced a lot of the same things that I did, so I had somebody 177 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:24.480 that could say, this is what really happened. But my first experience that 178 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:28.960 I remember, I was about four years old or so, and we lived 179 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:33.399 on the edge of town is Escandido, California. My dad was in the 180 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:37.639 Navy, and we had a larger, older house and we had the big 181 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.440 i'll callum bay windows that were really at bay windows, but we'll use that. 182 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:46.480 And so I woke up and I looked outside, and I would describe 183 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:52.039 it as a hat man. He was very tall, i'd say maybe seven 184 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:56.840 feet now, and he had a black hat and a kind of a cape 185 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:01.360 on, and the whole was black. I couldn't see his face, but 186 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:05.559 I could see his eyes and it glowed red. And so the next morning 187 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:07.600 I was kind of scared, and I told my mom, well, being 188 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:13.200 that we lived on the edge of the town, she told me it was 189 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:18.559 a hoodoo. So I would hear the owls and somehow in mind at fourty 190 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:22.360 years old. There's association there to hoodows and this red eyed creature. Whatever 191 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:28.200 I saw were the same thing, and so that was my first real paranormal 192 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:33.919 experience. And then from them we moved and the house we moved into, 193 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.480 we didn't have much activity. But my biological dad died in nineteen seventy one, 194 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.480 and after he died, then all these things started happening. Of course, 195 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:48.039 at that time I didn't know that. It was years later that I 196 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:52.799 knew he died, and so my brother, my twin brother, and I 197 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:58.039 started experiencing things like these little lanterns that we had back in those days, 198 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:02.480 and it looked like an old coal owning lanner ink or something, you know 199 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:07.039 that the people had the coal mines and hanging on their porch and that you 200 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:11.879 know, people had used back in you know, eighteen we'll say sixties and 201 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.639 fifty somewhere there, and so it looked like one of those little old lamps 202 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.799 things and it would come on by itself. We had two of them. 203 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.720 They'd come on by themselves and there had to be a switch. And so 204 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:29.639 we had a lot of activity. Actually had the spirit grab us and shake 205 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:33.879 our legs and man. We were terrified at the beginning, and so it 206 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:38.519 lasted a year, but we grew past the tarra because we realize nothing bad 207 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:44.480 is happening to us. It's it's like a meaningful play, like shaking your 208 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:47.200 arm in your hand. And one time, I can tell you that this 209 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:52.080 is gonna sound crazy, I don't care. And so this object, when 210 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:56.039 you think about it, this this entity reached through the covers and grabbed me 211 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:59.679 and shaking my leg. So I grabbed its arm right. It was a 212 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:04.119 huge in hand. I could feel it and I just started filling it and 213 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:10.759 I put my both of my wrists together or fingers around that wrist, and 214 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:12.720 I thought, ah, you're not getting away this time. And it just 215 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:17.279 pulled right through my hand, just right through my hands, not by force, 216 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:19.240 but just through my hand. And I got to thinking about it and 217 00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:26.920 said, whatever this is can reach through solid and then grab me right and 218 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.759 the same thing that happened to my brother and grab me and shake me and 219 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:36.559 it's solid, but then I can feel it solid, but then it's it's 220 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:40.319 able to go right through my hand. I mean, it just doesn't make 221 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:44.440 any sense whatsoever. And it wasn't just once that's this kind of thing happened 222 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:47.960 to me, you know, and so we learned not to be scared anymore. 223 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.599 And so I think in many cases I wanted to learn. So any 224 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:59.319 anytime I could get a book that had some type of relevant parentlemal stuff, 225 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:03.000 and it goes to whatever, I would do it. I would read it. 226 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:07.079 I'd watch all the shows back during that time that was on TV, 227 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:14.279 you know, and so I studied them, and you know, I just 228 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:18.920 grew along the way I got older, old enough to drive, I was 229 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:23.359 still studying the paranormal and reading books, readers, digest articles, whatever I 230 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:27.359 could get my hands on. My mom would buy me books like Into the 231 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:30.720 Unknown and other books, and so I read it. I did a lot 232 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:34.839 of reading, and I learned. And so when we got old enough to 233 00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:40.759 have our own cars, my brother and I would go out to the cemeteries 234 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:44.079 and I saw a show on eed P. Of course, I don't I 235 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.240 don't know if they knew that term back an, because you know, knowledge 236 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:51.599 wasn't as broad as it is today. And so they would go out, 237 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:55.319 these guys were ghost standards. They'd go out with the tape recorder and you 238 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:57.799 need to use a microphone on an old tape recorder, you know, and 239 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:02.480 so you would. I would at these these tape recorders on people's grave, 240 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:07.119 and it was a grave site in the middle of nowhere, so basically we'll 241 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:10.720 just call it, for practical term, abandoned. So i'd leave it. 242 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:14.000 And of course, back then, most of the tapes only had thirty minutes 243 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:18.680 that you could tape on, and so I would go and pick that recorder 244 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:21.839 up, drive off and then come back, you know, twenty thirty minutes 245 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:25.599 later whatever, and get the tape recorder and go home and listen to it. 246 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:30.119 And sometimes I would hear voices, but I couldn't hear them very clearly, 247 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.119 and of course I didn't know what I do now that you learn it 248 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.599 along the way, and so that was kind of my first experiences. And 249 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:44.119 then I was on the news channel here in Oklahoma City with Robin Marsh I 250 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:47.440 knew here from back in the day, and she had us on there and 251 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:52.400 our team and we did an investigation at Channel NIZE news here in Oklahoma City, 252 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:55.680 and so she interviewed us and we talk about it back in our days 253 00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.640 that my brother and I would go out and put the recorders out on the 254 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.799 grade and She's like, I didn't know you guys did that. Yep, 255 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:07.440 we did. So. Anyways, just hearing your experiences as a kid and 256 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:11.599 thinking about some of the things that I experienced myself that got me interested in 257 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:15.039 the paranormal, doing the same thing you're talking about, watching all the shows, 258 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:19.880 getting my hands on any books I could find, trying to learn as 259 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:25.160 much as I could about what I was experiencing so I could try to understand 260 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:27.920 it. Little did I know, you know, that would become a lifelong 261 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:34.839 pursuit of mine. But yeah, back then, EVPs, I don't think 262 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:41.119 it was really a studied thing other than just setting out a tape recorder and 263 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:45.039 you know, listened for the disembodied voices and everything. But back then it 264 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:49.359 had a very scientific approach. I guess it still kind of does. But 265 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:57.400 I just remember being fascinated by all the different very intelligent and scientific minded people 266 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.200 studying the phenomens that were taking place, and I just always thought they were 267 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.160 going to figure it out, you know, that surely they're going to figure 268 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:10.880 all this stuff out, and it just never happened. Well, let's just 269 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:15.519 say this, I'm an old man now, And so with that said, 270 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:22.000 it was studied back in the fifties and by Jurgensen, who basically put out 271 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:29.119 a recorder trying to catch these sounds of a bird. And so when he 272 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:33.519 did, he found voices, and so he began to investigate. Now this 273 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:37.960 guy's a scientist too, so what he did, he's investigating the voices and 274 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:42.160 captured literally thousand. At one point he realized it was his dead mother was 275 00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:45.519 speaking to him, so he bought it, brought it to the attention of 276 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:52.279 Constantine rawd Eye, and Constantine Rawdye is the one that really got into it 277 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:56.599 as well. So now they're kind of teamed up. And Rod I Wassum 278 00:21:56.680 --> 00:22:02.240 his unstudied and so Rowdeye was part of the Catholic Church, and he knew 279 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:07.440 they had did these experience experiments in Faraday cages where I don't know, if 280 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.160 you know anything about radio maham operator to general class of new emergen communications as 281 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:15.119 well. And so with that said, a fair day cave is to block 282 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:21.240 all signals because when people started hearing the voices, quite often they say the 283 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:25.359 stupidest things. It's funny, they'll do anything to come up with anything to 284 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:30.440 explain it, and it's like, no, we're not capturing radio signals on 285 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:33.240 voice recorders. It just doesn't work that way. And of course those were 286 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:37.920 tape recorders, big tape recorders, and we have one when I was a 287 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:41.880 kid, and it was really real tape. And so he's actually done an 288 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:49.000 album out that he put out of these voices that Rod I captured and some 289 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:52.839 of the dead people that he knew that were on the side communicating with them, 290 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.359 and what they did. They went and studied those voices and ran them 291 00:22:56.359 --> 00:23:03.119 through analyzes and figured out that maybe later on figured out that it's a ninety 292 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:07.240 eight to ninety nine percent of a match. Wow, And that's close enough 293 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:11.839 where government work. So when I go back to those times when I'm doing 294 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.480 the thing with the taper order, I saw it on the show, but 295 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:18.599 we just didn't have that technology to get all this information out. And if 296 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.480 you aren't digging and looking in the right place like a pot of gold, 297 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.400 you're not going to know. You're just going to know. This is a 298 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:30.920 phenomenon that happens, but nobody knew it was EVP. And so now that 299 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:36.920 phenomenon has taken off in are worldwide researchers. And I studied under Dennis House 300 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:41.279 and I learned a lot from him, and he's written some books and things. 301 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.519 He's sent me a couple and I sent him a ghost box, and 302 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:51.599 back to the whole thing. I had a conversation with him and I said, 303 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:55.000 well, Dennis, have your war work with a ghost box. And 304 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.119 of course, back then, what they would do is you would buy this 305 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:02.319 certain radio, a radio shock, and go and clip the wire whatever, 306 00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:06.640 constantly scan and then set a tip recorder up and whatever. And I can 307 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:08.759 tell you how I did it, but I want for details. But anyways, 308 00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:11.440 so he said no, and so I said, well, give me 309 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:15.680 your address and I'm going to send you a ghost box and we'll talk about 310 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:22.960 these results, the results. So I sent him the ghost box and he 311 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:26.000 sent me a couple of his books. They read. In fact, I 312 00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.799 think i've got one right here. Let me go back in my chair, 313 00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:37.640 and it's called Haunted Places. Yeah, so people can go look it up 314 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:44.480 and it's a national directory, so if you want something that's interesting, you 315 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:48.240 know it's a good book to read. So he sent me both one here 316 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:53.079 from the US and I think World Wire or in Europe, so yeah, 317 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:57.319 people know about it. And he was the consultant for the movie White Noise. 318 00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:03.240 I don't know if you knew that. Yeah, yeah, I snagged 319 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:07.599 up that movie as soon as it came out. As a little kid talking 320 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:12.480 about, you know, using tape recorders and everything that was I was always 321 00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:17.279 trying to you know, I'm a little kid in the eighties, so I'm 322 00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:21.799 trying to like, you know, put together my own equipment. And eventually 323 00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:23.720 that that, you know, got a little more advanced in the nineties. 324 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:29.720 But one of the first things I did was get a bunch of walkman's and 325 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:36.160 tear them all apart and try to connect all the magnetic tape heads together and 326 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:40.640 wire them into one unit where I could, you know, turn that on 327 00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:45.720 and listen with headphones for any clicks or tapping on the magnetic heads, you 328 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:49.720 know, might be a ghost trying to communicate. Very young mind trying to 329 00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:52.559 put together the pieces. Yeah, and that's what you do. I mean, 330 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.319 when you get curious enough, you know. And that's my whole thing. 331 00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.599 And that's why, you know, Stranger Oklahoma, that group continues to 332 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:06.119 grow because I'm not saying that I'm an expert, but I'm there to help 333 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.920 people. I do have a lot of experience, personal and otherwise, you 334 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:14.640 know. And my twin brother and I once all the commantion word is Nune 335 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.200 of Pede for the little people. And so we grew up in southwest Oklahoma, 336 00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:23.400 and we were Indian students in school. My dad he was Cherokee, 337 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:32.160 and anyway, so I got to talk to a lot of Indians about their 338 00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:37.880 experiences with the paranormal and their beliefs and what they call the hairman a wild 339 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:42.200 man most often you know, bigfoot and the nunipede. So, you know, 340 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:47.079 I tell the story, and thank god, my brother was there with 341 00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:49.960 me longing and we're walking back and we've been to this pond, and on 342 00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:55.119 the way back there were a lot of jack wraps just down around the Loton 343 00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:00.279 area, you know, in Lowton, and so this jack rabbit jumps up 344 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:04.160 and it starts to run, and we're looking at it and we're thinking jack 345 00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:10.519 row because it had happened to us dozens of time before, and this time 346 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:14.759 it was strange looking. And then all of a sudden, this black hole 347 00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:18.000 opens up, we'll just call it a portal whatever, and it runs into 348 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.160 this portal and then it comes out the other side, and it's running a 349 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:26.480 zigzagging and we're looking at this thing. And I think we probably looked at 350 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:30.839 it maybe eight seconds or so, I don't know. And so it runs 351 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:34.359 into another portal and just vanishes. And I looked at my brother and I 352 00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:40.400 said, what and the hell was that? And my brother looks at me 353 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:42.079 and he's shaking his head and he said, I don't know, man, 354 00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:48.079 but it looked like a little Indian And that's exactly what I saw, and 355 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.079 he saw too. So, you know, I've had those experiences with cryptids 356 00:27:52.119 --> 00:28:00.359 and ghosts and even Bigfoot itself. And so when I came into the group 357 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.160 Strange Oklahoma, I had all these experiences. What I saw was people looking 358 00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:11.359 for answers, and nobody would really say anything because they really had experienced either. 359 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:15.279 But I had. When I did, I looked into it and I 360 00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:18.240 got a deeper understanding. And so a lot of people back when I was 361 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:25.359 young, a lot of people you said anything about anything paranormal, especially under 362 00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:29.960 the wrong circumstances, all you got was ridicule. You know, I put 363 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:34.680 up with that ridicule bull crap during Oklahoma City bombing, and I don't care. 364 00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:41.640 I'll face off with any FBI agent any day, any of them because 365 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:45.359 I have the facts and you don't, and we know exactly what you did. 366 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:48.160 You lied about the evidence and you covered up, and you wouldn't even 367 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:52.599 get the right people to come to the trials that had evidence. You never 368 00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:56.960 let those people testify. I'll go records saying that, and so we know. 369 00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.680 And so I have that attitude that I'm not going to be pushed around 370 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:04.920 and I'm not going to be intimidated by people because I know what I saw. 371 00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:08.359 I'm sorry you didn't see it. You don't have the facts. And 372 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:14.960 that's why I really began to study and help people, and so that's why 373 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.200 the site continues to grow, because I want those people to come there and 374 00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:23.759 feel safe and give their testimony of whatever happened to them. I can't say 375 00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:27.839 some of them aren't lying, or maybe they're not telling you truth, but 376 00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:33.359 I would say that if you're going to do that and go on record and 377 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:37.920 tell a lie and then everybody else knows it after that, you're a liar. 378 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.559 And I can tell you, Matt, my dad, I'm also a 379 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.400 thirty second degree Mason. He was a Mason. He's also an Indian, 380 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.640 and he told me, Son, the only thing that you have in life, 381 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:55.160 that's really worth a damn is your word. And so a many my 382 00:29:55.759 --> 00:30:00.599 Indian friends it was the same thing. If they gave you their word, 383 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:03.799 that's all they really had. And so you gave your word and you stuck 384 00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:07.480 by your word, and you didn't change your mind. And if you know 385 00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:10.440 the facts and you have the facts, you're never going to change your mind. 386 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:14.119 You're not going to run in and be intimidated by all the other people. 387 00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:15.480 Well, you know, Matt, I stood up to all those other 388 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:19.759 people. I stood up to the intelligence agencies that have been lying to us, 389 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:25.319 and I've never backed down and I'm not going to them. And that's 390 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:29.559 my whole promise now, is that I want people to feel comfortable with these 391 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:34.720 experiences and feel free to share them. And so that's why that page Matt 392 00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:40.720 is growing, because they want to share, they want a story to be 393 00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:44.240 heard. And so I listened to them. And if I can respond and 394 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.960 tell them, you know what, I've heard this story before, it makes 395 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.440 people feel better. It's not like it was back in the sixties and seventies, 396 00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:59.519 where if you told somebody you saw UFO, you know that people would 397 00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:03.400 laugh at you. Now it's it's an accepted thing. We know there will, 398 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.799 we know that the Phoenix lights happened, and all kinds of other arabinents 399 00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:11.319 out there. So that's that's my whole stance, and that's why that page 400 00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:17.160 continues to grow, and I'm going to see to it. So have you 401 00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:22.039 had a big foot sighting or a big foot encounter? Yes, I've had 402 00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.400 two in my life. I was, actually I can't I won't say exactly 403 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.680 where, but i'll tell you close to El Reno, and I was with 404 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:36.279 the Shy and Rappah tribe, and of course, you know, i'll call 405 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:41.440 them brothers and sisters. They were telling me things will just end the Indian 406 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:47.079 level, and so I knew they weren't lying to me. I just knew, 407 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:51.079 you know, because they're giving you their word and they're all saying the 408 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:52.160 same thing, so you know it's got to be true, you know. 409 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:59.960 And so we were at this one location and there was a road that went 410 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:05.039 through and I walked down the road and there was a light shining on the 411 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:09.960 road and a street lamp. And so I walked down there probably eighty yards 412 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:17.279 and I saw something we'll just call it, well say bigfoot. It was 413 00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:23.079 crossing the road and it was a two lane highway map and in three steps, 414 00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:29.359 three steps across that road. Now you tell me what human being can 415 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:32.400 cross a two lane road in three steps. And when I saw it, 416 00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:37.279 I saw the bottom half first, and because of the shadows, I couldn't 417 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.039 see the top half, but I saw the bottom and it moved in that 418 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:44.079 that I couldn't see the bottom because now in the shadows that I saw the 419 00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:50.240 top and I can tell you it was a bipedal humanoid. And then the 420 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:53.599 next time I saw it was probably about six months ago. I was coming 421 00:32:53.640 --> 00:33:00.839 home at night, about two thirty in the morning, and I saw one 422 00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:06.359 next to a tree, and it caught my attention, probably second and half. 423 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.400 And this one, the one I saw was I'm going to get dark 424 00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:14.680 colored. The first one. The second one I saw was gray, and 425 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.799 I'm going to estimate that it was probably ten to maybe twelve feet tall. 426 00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:25.119 And it didn't scare me one bed. I've never been scared by a bigfoot 427 00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:30.200 or some crypted. But anyways, when it turned, I could see it's 428 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:36.400 back. When it turned to the side to step behind this tree kind of 429 00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:38.759 go around it. You know, my headlights are on it. And when 430 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:45.880 I saw it, Matt. His side was almost three foot wide. And 431 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:52.640 I'm a hunter, you know, I've taken gun smoothing courses and other things 432 00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:55.720 and worked at a gun store, and I've heard hunters say when they saw 433 00:33:55.799 --> 00:34:00.880 one of these creatures that I don't know, you with the thirty out six, 434 00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:04.960 it's considered them all around good, not the best, but all the 435 00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:09.199 wund going. You know, I wouldn't really recommend it for big bear, 436 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:15.440 you know, Kodiak or something good probably, But anyways, these these people, 437 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:17.719 you know, they're hunting milk and stuff, and they've always said the 438 00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:22.360 same thing. If I were to shoot it, I don't think i'd have 439 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:27.679 enough gun. And when I saw that thing turn, I knew at that 440 00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:32.039 point in town that this thing was a whole lot bigger than I ever thought. 441 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:36.880 So I've seen them twice, and I had experience with going back in 442 00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:43.760 the eighties whistling and threw something large and incret so I think another one too. 443 00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:47.639 But anyways, yeah, so I've had experiences with them UFO down to 444 00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:53.440 Loton probably eighty one, maybe eighty two, maybe a little earlier someone that 445 00:34:54.880 --> 00:35:00.920 time frame. We're outside with my friends and my mom. The police scanner, 446 00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:04.599 so she knew every time you got stopped to the police, not that 447 00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:07.960 it was that frequent, but she knew everything going on in Lot and some 448 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:10.599 of the little towns around there. And so she come out and said, 449 00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:13.840 hey, boys, do you see that red light in the sky. So, 450 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.039 yeah, I've seen there twice, you know, two or three nights, 451 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:21.599 I can't remember. But anyways, it was a reported UFO that a 452 00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:25.280 lot of people saw, and they actually scrambled wider jets from Altus Air Force 453 00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:30.599 Base there. And so, you know, I've had those experiences seeing some 454 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:34.840 red lights in the sky that I can't explain. I've never seen a little 455 00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:39.960 green man or entity like that. But do I believe they exist? Absolutely. 456 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:45.519 We know there's probes that they've been taken out of people that when they 457 00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:50.559 did the surge around them, the probes dug deeper into the flash. They 458 00:35:50.599 --> 00:35:54.920 never developed scar tissue. And then when they analyze those probes or beacon devices 459 00:35:55.239 --> 00:36:01.440 that were not in this world, they couldn't determine whatsoever what that chemical composition 460 00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:07.480 or makeup was of that probe, and they they admit a frequency. So 461 00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:12.119 you know, you have more questions, you know, you do answers than 462 00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:15.920 the paramomal And so what I'm trying to do mat is all these people that 463 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:21.079 have questions, have experiences they want to question that. They want to make 464 00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:24.400 sure that it happened. Could this happen? And you know, I've worked 465 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:32.280 with some producers in Hollywood at times called me for consultation and advice, and 466 00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:36.880 I won't name any of them, but anyways, they would come up with 467 00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:39.760 the most ridiculous things for stories that they wanted to tell on one of your 468 00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:45.760 shows, and would ask me ridiculous things like, Okay, so if you're 469 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:49.199 living in your house and you have all the furniture in that room, and 470 00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:52.639 that furniture can't be moved out of that room except in pieces, Can I 471 00:36:52.760 --> 00:37:00.440 go through the wall? Absolutely? It can amport We don't know, you 472 00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:04.800 know, they would ask all these questions to just take it to the extreme. 473 00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.320 You know. It's just like all these things combined together happen at once, 474 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.519 and that's what sells. And a lot of those shows, that's what 475 00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:15.599 sells. They have to have that embellishment so people will be really interested. 476 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:22.119 And so I've seen take people out at and take pictures and they get orbs 477 00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:25.079 which are ninety nine point nine percent of the time, it's going to be 478 00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:31.280 bugs or dust. There's billions and billions and trillions google plexes of dust and 479 00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:36.039 bugs out there, right, So what are the chances of you getting a 480 00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:40.599 real arb? Well, play the lottery, and so it's not going to 481 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:45.079 happen. It's because the light's too close to the lens, and it's that's 482 00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:50.159 what how orbs are created. Even Sony put that stuff worth in their cameras 483 00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:55.159 because people were getting orbs and pictures and now everybody think that they're they're they're 484 00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:00.880 paranormal, and they're not. And so my whole thing is you got a 485 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.639 question and look for answers. And that's why that side is continuing to grow, 486 00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:10.480 going back to the old school ways of you know, getting your information 487 00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:16.239 through books on this subject. The evidence and story is that came through those 488 00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:22.320 books, I would think would have to be like heavily researched and vetted before 489 00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:25.119 they ever made it to publication. You know, this is a permanent medium 490 00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:29.000 that's going to last forever. You know, if I put something in my 491 00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:32.719 book and then it turns out it's easily debunked or something I'm ruined in the 492 00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:38.280 field. But the Internet allows anybody to post any evidence that they want to, 493 00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:44.639 and they're like, you're saying, just a flood of it constantly every 494 00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:51.039 day. Do you think that social media and the internet has helped the paranormal 495 00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:55.559 field or heard it? I think both. Anything's good is bad too. 496 00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:00.559 You know, back in the when I had a book from the seventies eighties, 497 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.800 Into the Unknown, there's a story in near about these girls that have 498 00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:12.840 pictured of berries and they wouldn't shy away from their stories. But later in 499 00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:16.079 life they admitted it was all a hoax. And it was the same thing 500 00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:21.719 with the Lockanus monster. This guy had this thing in the lake, I 501 00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:23.679 guess, and he could raise it up and people all of a sudden have 502 00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:30.519 a sighting of the Locknus monster. So does that validate the point that it's 503 00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:34.440 all fake? No, all it is is is there are people that are 504 00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.360 going to fake it. There's people out there they're going to fake footprints. 505 00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:39.920 But you know, when you get to studying the evidence on Bigfoot, and 506 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:45.400 you see that these footprints are massive, bigger than the human footprint, and 507 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:51.000 nobody need to walk around barefooted anyways, And you see how far those footprints 508 00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:55.239 are pushed down into the ground. It's going to take something that at least 509 00:39:55.360 --> 00:40:00.639 will say, eight hundred to fifteen hundred pounds to do that. And a 510 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.239 human can't do that. A human can't do that unless you're gonna walk out 511 00:40:05.239 --> 00:40:07.840 in the woods, put some metal plate there and then pound it in the 512 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.639 ground with a hammer. I mean, come on, who's going to fake 513 00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:15.000 that? Yeah, and then you would see that. Like you know about 514 00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:20.280 the mid charlesar of breaking a bigfoot, the break there, nobody knew about 515 00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:23.079 that. You know, people like Jeff Muldram and other people that are firm 516 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:28.400 believed in a bigfoot. And as far as I know, Meldrum never saw 517 00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:31.559 one. But he's seen the evidence and that's all we have. And so 518 00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:36.239 I'll tell you, Matt, the best evidence of anybody who went to experience 519 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:40.480 the paranormal EVP you go back and you look, and like I said, 520 00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:45.440 these voices can be collected anywhere, anytime. So if you get an EVP 521 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:50.239 from somebody's house doesn't mean it's hot it because I can get them in my 522 00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:52.440 house. I can go outside and get them. Now, maybe it's going 523 00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:57.199 to be they never may maybe not, but there are like you talked about 524 00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:01.159 pops and clicks and things that you learn to recognize. And one of the 525 00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:07.519 things that Rona had said that people that have a propensity with music and basically 526 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:12.519 radio operators like have radio operators a two way communication. I'm one of those 527 00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:15.960 people. You have a propensity you have to listen sometimes and pick things up. 528 00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:22.719 And so you developed that ear. Wow developed the ear before I wasn't 529 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:28.599 have radio operator. But what I'm getting at is people disregard a lot of 530 00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:32.599 the information that's out there. They don't use critical thinking. That's the biggest 531 00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:38.760 I'll say filming that most people have. I've got a good friend of mine 532 00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:43.320 he thinks the whole thing with big book as a hopes. I'm not going 533 00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:46.440 to argue with him. But you know, when the phenomena is worldwide and 534 00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:52.360 how things like you know the Last Day, the Russians and the Yetty, 535 00:41:53.000 --> 00:42:00.000 and you got the YearIn and you know all these other names for the same 536 00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:04.320 creature and they all say the same thing that they'd like to kidnap women and 537 00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:08.559 children or whatever. And you know, when you hear these stories and it's 538 00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:13.239 based worldwide, you have to scratch your head, ask and you look at 539 00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:17.039 the little people like I saw. Are there other one? Yes, we 540 00:42:17.239 --> 00:42:23.440 reported leprechauns or these other entities like Tommy Knockers and others are around the world, 541 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:28.320 and a lot of people just disregard those things. And I think what 542 00:42:28.360 --> 00:42:30.519 you really have to do is apply yourself and look into it. And a 543 00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:35.639 lot of people won't do that. Either they're afraid or they're just they don't 544 00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:40.199 care. It doesn't affect in that until it happens in them. And I've 545 00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:45.559 filled it thousands of phone calls in the last twenty years. You looked at 546 00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:47.400 my website, you can see it's been up for you know, twenty years 547 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:51.599 now. And I used to get a lot of emails and things and talk 548 00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:53.440 to people. And there's really funny, man here the one line I always 549 00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:59.760 hurt from people. I didn't believe in this stuff until keyword, until it 550 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:04.440 has happened to be until and just like you and me, and so now 551 00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.000 here we are on a podcast together talking about this stuff. And my whole 552 00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:13.320 thing is the reason I'm on your podcast is I want people to know there's 553 00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:17.079 people like you and me that have had these experiences. And they may laugh, 554 00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:21.199 that's okay. I don't care laugh at me, laugh all you want, 555 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:23.400 but when it happened to you, you'll be a believer. And so 556 00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:28.800 my question is back to these people in my mind when I'm talking to I'm 557 00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:31.639 thinking, you know, it's funny. You have millions and millions of these 558 00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:37.039 reports in history, right, but you didn't believe any of it, none 559 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:40.679 of it. It was all fake. It was all lies until it happened 560 00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:45.039 to you. Now, all these other people that you were calling liars or 561 00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:52.039 whatever, you want me to believe you right and not believe what they said. 562 00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:58.079 Yeah, it's just ludicrous. So I just laugh. If we applied 563 00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:02.599 the same logic that they had previous to that one point in their life, 564 00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:08.239 yep, they wouldn't care for it very much. But like someone before me, 565 00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:12.800 much smarter than myself, said, out of all those things, it 566 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:16.039 only takes one to be true. Only one person has to be right and 567 00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:21.599 really experience what they experienced, and it changes everything. And that's the thing. 568 00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:24.840 When people experience a paranormal it's going to change your life. And you 569 00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:28.960 know, I can tell you come back to the bombing. It really changed 570 00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:34.280 my life. And we made the connections with Oklahoma City and nine to eleven 571 00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:38.000 and the wholesale and it really changed a lot of things and opened up a 572 00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.920 lot of people's eyes, but they didn't know, they didn't know the connections, 573 00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:45.519 and it was hidden from them. And so that's what I'm getting at. 574 00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:52.400 We're trying to get the unknown realized by people it they'll just simply apply 575 00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:57.320 critical thinking. And so when people come on that post, one of the 576 00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:02.000 things that I post about new members always have that link about Victor Zamba and 577 00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:10.519 a guy's a twenty five year well who retired and then investigated the paranormal for 578 00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:15.639 twenty five years, as I recall, So if you want to argue with 579 00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:19.639 me, go read his stuff first, then come back, because I'm not 580 00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.199 going to recap it with you and argue with you when you don't know the 581 00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:25.199 points. And I make it very clear when people come to me and ask 582 00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:29.800 me a questions about the Oklahoma City bombing and they have this theory, I 583 00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:30.840 tell him I sup with that. I say, no, I don't want 584 00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:34.280 to hear it. I've heard it all. Let me tell you what you 585 00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.679 don't know and then you can talk. But other than that, you need 586 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:39.840 to listen first because you don't know the facts. You've been lying to, 587 00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:45.280 Like you said, an entire show could be dedicated to that stuff, because 588 00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:50.199 you and I both, I mean we lived it. We were here, 589 00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:57.320 you know. Yeah, and there's a lot of strange situation surrounding that whole 590 00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:00.880 catastrophe. Yeah, no matter how you look at it, We'll give you 591 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:07.280 one that people should should realize that people don't know. And that was Ernest. 592 00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:14.280 This took and lint of Lina Tyree, I believe from the Governor's office, 593 00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:17.199 not the governor, but DA's office, Bob Macy's. I recall, 594 00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:22.400 we're standing in front of the Murror building and they had two deputy shares with 595 00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:25.639 them, and Ernest this took, says to Atlanta Tyree. We knew about 596 00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:30.679 this on the ninth How they let it happen? And so the deputy sheriffs 597 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:37.199 later wrote affidavias. Why would they put their names on that paper? Ruin 598 00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:40.400 their career? Right, Yeah, So that's a that's a that's a thinking 599 00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:43.880 point. I put it out. I'll to a bunch of people and other 600 00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:47.679 things like i'mium Gye trade and the whole thing. And I worked with General 601 00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:52.960 Pardon and he designed a smart bombs or military I just called them, sir 602 00:46:53.480 --> 00:47:00.440 there was other people involved that had a military background. Was working for twenty 603 00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:07.920 twenty did the free part Seria documentary on Oklahoma City bombing, and somebody from 604 00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:10.800 the White House we won't mention names, but it was during the Clinton era 605 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:21.239 called ABC and said, quote, do not play that documentary. It'll ruin 606 00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:25.000 the American people's faith in the government. So you tell me, So, 607 00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:30.679 let's get to some haunted stuff. You've done a lot, You've done a 608 00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:37.760 lot of investigations. What's the most active place you've ever visited? Well, 609 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:42.599 if I had to say on a continual basis, you know, it's always 610 00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:47.360 over time, but probably Fort Reno, and that's something that's public you can 611 00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:52.639 go to. I used to do the ghost tours there. Very active. 612 00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:57.719 I don't know why. Sometimes mat you have to have the right people there 613 00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:04.239 to activate the happenings. We'll just say, you know, trigger person or 614 00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:10.119 object and so I know my side when I had it Baron Guthrie that if 615 00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:15.840 we had we'll say eighty female or more, the place was very very active. 616 00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:22.559 When we did not so active, And so you just have to be 617 00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:28.440 there at the right time. I always tell people what contings you have to 618 00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:30.880 consider when you read about them, try to find out, you know, 619 00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:36.039 who is experience and activity? Is it men? Is women? Is it 620 00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:39.599 children? And so same thing at Port Reno, there were ports that a 621 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:45.239 lot of kids, perhaps in her mom's car, parents car, would what 622 00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:53.039 they would term it was a house there. It's on the north end of 623 00:48:53.119 --> 00:48:58.760 it, and it was a better built house. And the house was built 624 00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:04.880 with her father's materials being sent to her to construct that house better than the 625 00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:09.440 average house. And anyways, in that house, quite often kids are seen 626 00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:15.360 by their children waving at them as they go by, a particularly little girl. 627 00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:22.400 And so, yeah, I've seen ghosts in that house as well. 628 00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:28.199 We're inside investigating. That will not let you in there anymore. So for 629 00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:31.400 those of you looking for thrills, that's not going to happen. They've beamed 630 00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:35.599 the place and say it's not that it's falling apart, but all the lead 631 00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:38.320 pain and EPA stuff, And so we used to go in there and investigate. 632 00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:44.320 But I saw a female in a light colored dress, it was pretty 633 00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:47.079 dark standing on the stairs. Just I looked up in there she was and 634 00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:50.719 I thought it was one of my people, but it wasn't. So I 635 00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:57.679 had I think by people there investigating, and all of a sudden, I 636 00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:00.679 look, I'm talking to somebody who so I'm trying to get her to turn 637 00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:04.960 around and see, and of course is always the ghost disappears, and about 638 00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:09.239 that time is she turns around, somebody else comes down the stairs or in 639 00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:12.920 the little hallway again and says, hey, well, what are you just 640 00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:17.440 on the stairs. So they saw her too, So two of us saw 641 00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:22.199 her, and so it's pretty active. So yeah, so there are some 642 00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:29.480 active places around Fort Reno. The cemetery, there's stories about people seeing a 643 00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:32.039 lady in wide in the trees, maybe an angel. Again, I think 644 00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:37.519 mostly children see her. They say, if you take your hat off going 645 00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:40.280 into the cemetery, you may feel somebody, you know, patch you on 646 00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:45.239 your back, particularly if you're a man. Uh. There are some interesting 647 00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:50.880 graves out there. One of them is weak in Law. Uh so we 648 00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:53.800 and then C a M and then law and you know it's a Chinese name, 649 00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:58.239 but that was not his real name. I don't know what his real 650 00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:01.400 name was and if anybody does, but he was killed there at the fort 651 00:51:02.199 --> 00:51:10.360 and anyways, uh, he's uh, he's a notable there. Ben I 652 00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:14.440 can't think of his name. Rod Off the hand. He was an He 653 00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:20.480 worked as an Indian scout with the h the cavalry back in the day. 654 00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:24.840 So there's there's some pretty notable people at the cemetery they were buried. But 655 00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:30.760 well you will find is that most of the people buried that cemetery there fort 656 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:36.679 Reno were women and children. And then they have an annex to the cemetery 657 00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:43.320 for Italian and uh German po ws And so I did. I've done a 658 00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:47.239 lot of e VP work in the in fort Reno. And one of the 659 00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:52.480 times I went, and I was with a female and she had been in 660 00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:58.119 the army and so she could speak some German, and so uh she said 661 00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:02.239 something to him and UH said goodbye in German, and I guess it's short 662 00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:07.559 word for choose, And of course I speak a little German. My grandfather 663 00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:10.000 on my mom's side, he was Amish and he used to go out to 664 00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:15.079 el Reno, fort Reno, back in the day, to fart lay from 665 00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:20.480 where they lived in the farm, and he would speak to the German POW's 666 00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:22.360 and a lot of them were just conscripts, you know. They were there 667 00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:28.360 to fight and were captured and they realized it couldn't go anywhere and anyway, 668 00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:30.639 it's long, sort of short, so I know a little bit of German, 669 00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:35.119 and you know, on the recording, we got the word choose. 670 00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.880 So we went to another place later that day to investigate, and we were 671 00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:43.360 talking about the EVP that I've got at Fort Reno, and all of a 672 00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:49.800 sudden, that same voy shows a ninety miles away on that recorder choose. 673 00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:52.159 And that's not the first time that's happened. And that's why I'm saying, 674 00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:59.320 when you get involved in this stuff, Matt, you don't realize what it 675 00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:02.840 really leads into, and you're gonna have these mind blowing events. And I've 676 00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:07.679 seen that happen more than once, where we start talking about an EMVP we 677 00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:12.599 got somewhere and all of a sudden show back up and I don't know how 678 00:53:12.679 --> 00:53:17.199 that happens. I can't tell you, but it happens. Oklahoma is well 679 00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:22.320 known, at least by the residents that live here, for it's just a 680 00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:29.320 place that has all kinds of legends and myths and folklore surrounding the entire state. 681 00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:32.960 Pretty Much everywhere you go you can find something, and one of the 682 00:53:34.039 --> 00:53:38.360 more famous things is the legend of cry Baby Bridge. Which I'm sure by 683 00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:44.880 this point every state has a cry baby bridge. I'm yeah, at least 684 00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:52.360 one. Have you ever investigated one where you actually found anything to report? 685 00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:54.760 Well, let me tell you this. There's an experiment. When you get 686 00:53:54.800 --> 00:54:00.559 time, look it up. It's called fill Up the Ghost, and I 687 00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:04.119 posted it here on Strange and a lot of people are going to look at 688 00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:12.400 it. But let's just say this that it's almost like people can create a 689 00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:15.440 haunting. And then there was a whole thing. So they made up this 690 00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:20.119 whole story about Philip the Ghost from you know, living from whatever years to 691 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:24.199 what Gary died. I think he committed suicide, and they tried to contact 692 00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:29.039 Philip the ghost, and accordingly, of course there were tricksters, and of 693 00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:32.719 course they did everything they could, and it was an experiment to keep the 694 00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:37.960 tricksters from doing their tricks. So, you know, could it happen, 695 00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:42.000 Yes, there's always going to be somebody that beats the system. But they 696 00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:45.000 had all the wraps and tacks and pangs on the walls and levitation of the 697 00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:51.960 table and other what people would call paranormal activity. So here's the question. 698 00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:58.760 Was it the trick of the people doing something that they got over on the 699 00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:07.880 people conducting the experiment or was it telekinesis being that they all had their minds 700 00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:13.599 focused on it. Could that be the answer? I don't know, but 701 00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:19.599 these are the Again, when you start studying parapsychology, you're typically always going 702 00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:23.280 to come up with more questions than you have answers. And that's because of 703 00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:28.480 all the unknown. And so that's again going back to it. A lot 704 00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:32.280 of people don't like to talk about it, or the learning people that are 705 00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:37.519 being paid agaback to teach our kids, you know in schools called universities, 706 00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:42.320 they don't want to talk about that stuff because they have they don't have the 707 00:55:42.400 --> 00:55:45.599 answers, and so they do through it. And I don't know. I 708 00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:50.920 don't I don't have the answers, but I sure have a lot of questions. 709 00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:59.199 You know, have you investigated any possession cases. I'll tell you that 710 00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:05.880 case very very long ago. My brother and I investigated the case where a 711 00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:12.639 lady had the daughter had played with a Ouiji board and that just brought all 712 00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:16.239 kinds of things in and it got to the point that culminated the kind of 713 00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:22.639 in Texas that they woke up and all the windows and doors were open, 714 00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:28.920 wide them told me this story, and it was so cold in the house 715 00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:31.199 you could you know, it should be ninety five degrees outside, you know, 716 00:56:31.239 --> 00:56:36.320 in the summer more I don't know, but it was so cold to 717 00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:39.960 the house that you could see your breath. And so they moved Oklahoma to 718 00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:44.800 get away from all this. And these things follow people, you can't get 719 00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:46.960 away from them, and things started against So she wanted me to come over 720 00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:51.679 to investigate. So me and my brother did. It's a real interesting story. 721 00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.360 I don't tell it very often, I'll tell you. And so we 722 00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:59.679 went over. Investigator took a tape recorder and asked some questions. We didn't 723 00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:04.320 have a tools that we had. Then we got no evidence whatsoever. But 724 00:57:04.840 --> 00:57:09.519 here's the key. The daughter's name was Daniela. I remember that, and 725 00:57:10.639 --> 00:57:15.360 when we went into the house, I didn't say a word. But in 726 00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:19.639 my dreams, she's not the girl of my dream so to be caw. 727 00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:23.360 But anyways, in my dreams, her and I were running from something that 728 00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:27.639 seemed to be on our heels, like a pack of dogs, and so 729 00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:31.599 we knew we couldn't get away from it. So what we had to do 730 00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:35.880 is try to delay them. If that makes sense like, hey, let's 731 00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:37.800 put this here. They got to go over and go around, and it's 732 00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:42.000 gonna buy us a little bit of time, you know. And I had 733 00:57:42.039 --> 00:57:45.000 those dreams, I don't know how many times with her and my dreams, 734 00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:47.440 and then when I saw her face, the dreams came back, and I 735 00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:52.000 knew that something was going on, and so I didn't word about brother, 736 00:57:52.719 --> 00:58:00.679 and so we left and h I called this to mind, who was a 737 00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:05.800 pastor's name was Pastor Kenny, and he'd added in the near death experience left 738 00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:08.800 his body debt for fifteen minutes. Incredible story. And so I called him 739 00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:14.519 and I told him what was going on, and he knew about these things, 740 00:58:14.559 --> 00:58:17.320 and he knew about angels and demons, you know, per san account, 741 00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:21.840 we'll just say. And so he told me, said, well, 742 00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:28.400 we'll go back in two weeks and do a blessing on that at home. 743 00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:30.440 And I'm thinking, you know, this is something we need to do now. 744 00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:35.679 It's immediate. It's sooner than better, you know. And so I 745 00:58:35.719 --> 00:58:37.000 don't know why he gave us a two week period at that time. I 746 00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:40.880 do now though, I now know by handling these cases, you know. 747 00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:49.039 And so we plan the day and I set the time of whatever, and 748 00:58:49.280 --> 00:58:52.559 after that, all these things started happening to my brother and I like our 749 00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:58.599 clocks being sent back. We were here like heavy breathing in a room. 750 00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:05.199 You're terrified footsteps even though it's carpet, you know. And so this happened. 751 00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:08.280 And so I can't tell you at what point you know this is? 752 00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:15.440 This is forty years ago more now. And so at this point this angel 753 00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:20.840 appeared to my brother, okay, and he spoke, I call his name 754 00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:24.280 Yoshua. That's his real name in Hebrew. Yes, sure, and there 755 00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:29.880 is no Jane Hebrew. But anyway, so this angel appeared and greeted him 756 00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:34.480 in the name of the Yoshua. And then this scolded book appeared in his 757 00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:37.039 hands, and in there he read I think it's Matthew twelve, where it 758 00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:40.840 talks about when you cast out demons, that they go and wonder that then 759 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:45.440 dry places, and then they come back with seven more evil spirits of themselves, 760 00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:52.400 and they found the place left and clean. And so the angel basically 761 00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:58.159 vanished. And then the angel came to my room and told me the same 762 00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:02.960 story. This is where it gets really weird, right, So I this 763 01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:08.440 this angel really got me was above the feeling so like nine feet tall at 764 01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:16.639 least, white robe, blonde hair, really blue eyes. He had an 765 01:00:16.760 --> 01:00:22.679 aura about him, you know, and he told me not to be scared, 766 01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:24.639 you know, And so he reads me that scripture is such a book. 767 01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:30.440 I guess I passed out whatever, and I woke up and the first 768 01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:34.280 thing in my head was that scripture. So I ran in my bottle and 769 01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:37.960 opened it up. It was And so I went to tell my brother about 770 01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:45.400 what happened. And he's nonchalantly listening to me, and I'm thinking this is 771 01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:49.039 very important, Matt, you know. And all of a sudden, as 772 01:00:49.119 --> 01:00:53.199 I start to tell him the scripture of my brother blurts out the scripture Wow. 773 01:00:54.000 --> 01:01:00.800 So then I realized that he had the same encounter. So our angels 774 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:05.719 real. Yeah, it's a Bible real, you know. I'm gonna say 775 01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:12.239 that there's some misinterpretations out there of it, but I think they just of 776 01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:17.039 what the Bible says. That the clarity there may be a little skewed with 777 01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:22.079 you know, man and traditions and writings and translations, but I think the 778 01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:27.519 message is still there and he is who he says he is, And so 779 01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:32.480 I follow Yoshua and I don't follow man, I'm not going I'm not going 780 01:01:32.519 --> 01:01:37.519 to go to church and being doctrinated by people. You know, I'm going 781 01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:40.960 to follow you, Shua And that's the whole thing. And so yeah, 782 01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:47.079 I have I had those experiences absolutely. Again, my twin brother was my 783 01:01:47.239 --> 01:01:51.880 witness and I was his witness, just like with the London pizza. Yeah, 784 01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:54.800 we have tons of experiences. And so he's also on the page. 785 01:01:54.840 --> 01:02:04.519 He doesn't do much, but his wife has had instances. She's a Pawnee 786 01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:12.000 Indian and they've had skim walkers according to him. And some of the things 787 01:02:12.079 --> 01:02:15.440 you sent me in this house, you know, even drew in the TV 788 01:02:16.039 --> 01:02:21.039 and I have a picture of it. And on his daughter's car, same 789 01:02:21.159 --> 01:02:25.639 thing had the drawns on her car and Brittany, she's now deceased, but 790 01:02:27.639 --> 01:02:31.239 anyway, it's lunch story short. She died in what I'll call a young 791 01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:35.559 age, and I know that was hard on my brother. And before she 792 01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:37.960 did, one of the things had happened to him, not you know a 793 01:02:37.039 --> 01:02:40.599 couple of years prior to that. She had these drawings on her car too, 794 01:02:40.639 --> 01:02:45.360 and sent pictures to my brother and he was like, Dad, I 795 01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:47.280 don't know what the heck this is? But what is it? And so 796 01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:53.119 my brother's telling her and she was in Chicago when it happened. So when 797 01:02:53.159 --> 01:02:57.880 you're dealing with these things, it doesn't matter where you go. You can't 798 01:02:57.960 --> 01:03:01.639 run from them. And so sometimes you have to deal with these things in 799 01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:06.840 life and find a way to deal with it. A lot of people that 800 01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:10.480 are having trouble dealing with these things, and that's why I'm on that page. 801 01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:15.840 Like I said, you get back. You know, I've investigated a 802 01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:20.920 lot of things, just not the paranormal, and I've always been a truth 803 01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:23.719 seeker, but the number one thing I want to do. It doesn't matter 804 01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:29.800 how much truth I have if I'm not sharing it with others and making their 805 01:03:29.920 --> 01:03:34.039 lives better, why would I do it? Because I want to make their 806 01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:37.119 people's lives better, man, And that's why I'm on your podcast. Well, 807 01:03:37.239 --> 01:03:43.239 Ron, I appreciate you coming on here and sharing some of your experiences 808 01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:46.079 and some of your insight, and I'd love to have you back on again. 809 01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:50.840 Man. I feel like we're just scratching the surface, you know, 810 01:03:51.039 --> 01:03:54.920 in all different kinds of directions that could go on forever. But thank you 811 01:03:55.039 --> 01:04:00.239 so much for coming on here and sharing my pleasure. Just reached out to 812 01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:05.199 me anytime and find out as they're checking tornado sirens and working with emergency management 813 01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:13.159 and doing field days or exercises or teaching surcourses. We'll get you squeezed in 814 01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:17.760 and we'll make it happen. Just another day in Oklahoma, that's another day 815 01:04:17.800 --> 01:04:21.119 in another life. And if you need to get a hold of Ron and 816 01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:26.440 ask him a question or seek his advice on the paranormal, you can find 817 01:04:26.559 --> 01:04:29.639 him on Facebook on the Strange Oklahoma group