WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:05.639 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. My goodness, 2 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:14.039 Frank, Being Frank, were the only way to be is Frank. Hello, 3 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:17.440 ed, Welcome to Being Frank, where the only way to be is 4 00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:21.239 of course, Frank. I'm your host, Frank Leblono. We would like 5 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:26.199 to thank you for joining us here on what we call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. 6 00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:31.120 We know your time is valuable. The competition is fear so many podcasts 7 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:35.200 these days, but we like to think of ourselves as an alternative to well 8 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:39.280 that noise, so we really appreciate you sharing at least some of your day 9 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:43.240 with Being Frank. 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We think it's the intelligent thing to 27 00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:00.120 do. For context, we are going, as we call it, the 28 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:05.959 industry live to tape on the nineteenth of October. The current dysfunction we are 29 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:09.759 seeing in Congress has become far more than an inconvenience to the American people. 30 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:15.840 It's a clear and present danger. The Republican majority in the House of Representatives 31 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:21.400 has failed to coalesce around anyone they might find suitable to fill the vacant role 32 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.159 a Speaker of the House, and without one, that body continues to fail 33 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:30.840 and its only true mission, the governance of the country, unfortunately, is 34 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:36.360 emblematic of the growing partisan divide that has become the norm to many of our 35 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:40.360 representatives has chosen party over country, and it seems to be getting worse, 36 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:45.840 or perhaps in one way or another, it's always been that way. Joining 37 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:49.879 us now to give her a unique insiders perspective, gain from years on the 38 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:54.120 national political scene, including two stands inside the White House. So director of 39 00:02:54.159 --> 00:03:01.240 communications for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, to frequent guest on ms NBC and co 40 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:07.560 host of the very popular showtime series The Circus, and a very busy lady 41 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:13.919 today my friend Jennifer Palmiery. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us. 42 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.599 I mean that lots going on today. The President is speaking tonight, 43 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:21.039 we have to talk about Congress, we have to talk about Israel. So 44 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.840 I really appreciate you taking the time. You know, I'm always happy to 45 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:27.599 talk to you. Frank, I love it. Yeah, it's really really 46 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.599 it's our pleasure. Well, let's talk a little bit about the role of 47 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:37.039 speaker. What does it mean to be Speaker of the House, Well, 48 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:40.159 it means that you're presiding over the business of the House, and the speaker 49 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:45.000 largely controls what bills come to the floor and when, so it is the 50 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:50.800 ultimate It's it's a management job. I mean, it comes with enormous power. 51 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.800 But because you do design, because you are you are ultimately the one 52 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:01.080 who's deciding you know when, when which regition is gonna is going to get 53 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:06.199 voted on and uh. But you also you know when you have a divided 54 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:10.719 Congress like we have now in uh White House, in one party in the 55 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:15.080 House and another, it's also a big uh. It's a compromise job. 56 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:23.800 And you know that the most successful speakers are the ones that know how to 57 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:30.240 keep their coalition together, keep their UH caucus aligned, but also are able 58 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:36.240 to have enough credibility within their caucus, you know, like the in Jordan's 59 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:42.519 case, the House Republican caucus, that they are able to negotiate deals when 60 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:45.920 they need to sort of on their own right, because you can't have four 61 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.920 hundred and thirty five members in a room. And Nancy Pelosi is emblematic as 62 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:57.480 somebody who was very successful in trying to do both things right. She she 63 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:00.639 she was really great at holding her caucus together. The big show is you 64 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.600 know, you know she would never bring you ask if the bill is going 65 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:05.879 to pass, and the question is the Nancy plusy bring it to the floor, 66 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:09.480 because anty pussy is not bringing a bill to the floor that is not 67 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:13.160 going to pass. That is never going to happen, and it never did 68 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.800 happen. But she also had enough credibility with the Democrats that she was able 69 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:23.720 to negotiate when she needed to with the Senate Republicans to gunt and know that 70 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:27.920 her caucus was ultimately going to back her with whatever she compromises she had to 71 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.879 make. So it is, it's a pretty thing. It can be often 72 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:34.439 a very thankless job. Is a very hard job. It requires a lot 73 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:39.519 of nuance and skill. Well, let's talk about right now with it. 74 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:44.800 There's a numbers game, and we mentioned artisan politics and the compromise, et 75 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:49.439 cetera. Two hundred and eighteen votes are needed to get the full majority to 76 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:56.199 elect the Speaker of the House. But in a in a divided house where 77 00:05:56.279 --> 00:06:02.680 it seems like just everybody goes strictly acording to party lines, how does anyone 78 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.519 get to that number. I mean, well, yeah, it's I mean 79 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.199 it's well, we've never we've never had before, We've never had a party 80 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:16.480 failed to be able to unite behind one leader. So that has that's just 81 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:20.079 not happened, you know. You just you don't go to the floor and 82 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:25.879 wing it thea like Kevin McCarthy did in January, where it took fifteen votes 83 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:30.639 in order for him to finally get a majority to get to to eighteen and 84 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.199 become speaker. So the you know, it is not you know, there's 85 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:39.040 there's now sort of a question and it's I mean, Frank like I it's 86 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:46.000 it's you know, we're doing this Thursday afternoon. I didn't look at the 87 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:53.560 New York Times for an hour thought, you know, and thought that the 88 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:58.560 Republicans had decided that they would not try to opt for a third vote of 89 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:03.839 trying to get Jim Jordan O were uh to uh to tow eighteen And an 90 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:09.680 hour later they've decided no, They're going to go forward again. So this 91 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:15.720 is it is it is. It's not something that in modern certainly in modern 92 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:19.240 political history, certainly like in the last hundred years, this just is not 93 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:25.879 a situation that we have been in before. You know, it's interesting because 94 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.160 I said, I better check a quick look at see and then to see 95 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:35.720 what the latest is because the situation has been that mercial and and changing so 96 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:41.079 rapidly. Now you're you're the veteran of two administrations, correct, Clinton and 97 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:45.199 Obama? Clinton? Obama? Yeah, yes, So what was who was 98 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:48.120 speaker at that time? Was Pelosi? For for both of administrations? It 99 00:07:48.319 --> 00:08:00.120 was for Clinton it was Tom Foley and then and then new Gingridge and he 100 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.079 didn't last he did not last very long. And then it was Bob Livingston 101 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:07.879 for like a hot minute, and then I guess it was Denny Hastert, 102 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:16.720 and then for Obama it was Pelosi, and then Bayner and then Ryan and 103 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:20.120 yeah, no, I was just gonna say, and Baine, I would 104 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:24.800 say, you know, Bayner and Ryan, uh it was. I would 105 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:30.759 say, that is where it started. You could see the House Republican Caucus 106 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:37.440 start to break down in terms of its ability to hold uh you know, 107 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:45.159 to to hold their members together. And Bayner and Ryan both had really difficult 108 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:52.000 times trying to uh uh you know, particularly Ryan when he was speaker in 109 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:58.440 the Trump administration, very difficult time holding holding their their their own party members 110 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:07.159 together, and so they proved to be ineffectual. And you know, they 111 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:09.039 were usually elected. You know, they're elected in mid terms. That's what 112 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:13.960 happens. Right at president it's elected midterm election. The other party does better, 113 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:18.960 might take over control of the Congress. But you know, with any 114 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:24.759 moment years they just they they not. Even though Bayner and Ryan were sort 115 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:26.519 of in the mold of what you want in a speaker, kind of a 116 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:33.000 traditional establishment, not a grand standard, someone who can work effectively behind the 117 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:35.519 scenes, but even they couldn't, uh, you know, had a hard 118 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:41.360 time keeping their caucus aligned. Talk about the relationship that the speaker has with 119 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:48.120 the president is a very direct relationship. Is it a hands on relationship? 120 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:54.240 Do they do they meet on a regular basis and answer that person follow up 121 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:56.919 question from there? No, it depends. I mean I think that the 122 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:03.120 speaker that probably work the most directly with the president that I can recall as 123 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.919 Tip O'Neill and President Reagan. They I wouldn't say that happened all the time, 124 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.879 but they had divided government. The House was constantly the House was in 125 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:18.240 Tip O'Neill's control the entire time that Reagan was president, and there was a 126 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.200 lot that did pass on a bipartisan basis, so they did have to work 127 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:26.799 together. They were very ideologically in different places, but seem to respect each 128 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:33.559 other and and kind of enjoy sparring with each other. But I would say 129 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:39.440 you Pelosi and Obama had a good relationship. They It's not the kind of 130 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:45.679 thing where you're going to talk to them every week, but when you are, 131 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.039 but when you're in the situation of having to get something done, it 132 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.159 is you may talk to the speaker five times in one day. So it 133 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.240 kind of goes and fits and starts. There will be meet meetings are largely 134 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:01.639 ceremonial. They usually happen when you're trying to, you know, show that 135 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:05.879 you're working together and trying to make progress if you're at loggerheads or get when 136 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:13.799 you're getting ready to kick something off. But it's important that there is it's 137 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.399 important that there's a lot of trust in that relationship. Well, the perfect 138 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:22.480 segue with that in mind, Jen, you have two powerful people, in 139 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:28.360 some cases a woman, in other cases a man of supposedly with the balance 140 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:35.399 of power in a sense almost equally powerful, almost, but there's the enormous 141 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:41.120 power of the president president. Is that always there is that? Is the 142 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:45.919 speaker always aware of that or are they more on equal footing? What you're 143 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:48.559 feeling with that? Well, I think normally this honestly, I think when 144 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:52.240 it comes to dealing with the president, the speaker usually is I would say 145 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:58.279 has more power than the president does because the speaker the president doesn't have anything 146 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.480 that necessarily that the speaker was. The speaker very much has something that the 147 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:05.039 president wants. And of course, being president the United States might be the 148 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:09.279 most powerful job in the world. It's also the job with the president has 149 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:11.960 a lot of power. They don't have a lot of control, right, 150 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:18.720 you have very little control when you're a president and uh, and that you 151 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:24.159 know, that's it's very any anything that happens in the world can become your 152 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:28.799 problem, your responsibility can up end whatever you have planned. And this the 153 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:33.279 speaker, uh, you know, they will need the president to not undercut 154 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:37.320 them if they will need this the president to sign off on a deal that 155 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:43.559 they need the president's support. But really it is uh, the speaker that 156 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.279 the president that's relying on the speaker to move a legislative agenda on their behalf. 157 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:52.840 Interesting. Well, yeah, another point that you spoke of too, 158 00:12:52.000 --> 00:13:01.080 is working across the aisle yea a description mixed you that was Republican Congress and 159 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:07.759 a Democrat or vice versa. Yeah, and again we see that divine getting 160 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.759 wider. But before to get to that, how did it work? How 161 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:16.919 do they make it work? Can you mentioned people can be really diametrically opposed 162 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:22.440 in a very deep sense and yet still get stuff done. How so the 163 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:26.799 I would say, my first sort of up close look at that was during 164 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:30.440 the Clinton administration in nineteen ninety four. We lost both the House and the 165 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.159 Senate. It was very historic. It was the first time in forty years 166 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:39.480 that Republicans controlled the House. It was an earthquake of epic proportions politically, 167 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:48.039 and Clinton saw immediately an opportunity to try to work with Republicans to you know, 168 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:52.960 to move to move things forward. Particularly this is on the budget was 169 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:56.600 the big example of where this was done on a bipartisan basis. Two years 170 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:01.000 later, enacted a balanced for the first time in a very long time in 171 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:07.039 the UH in in US history. It can happen when the incentives in both 172 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:15.000 parties are aligned to get something done and the problem and what's happened in the 173 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:20.519 more recent history, in the last decade and a half maybe is that the 174 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:26.679 incentives and the Republican Party are such that you are rewarded for being an extremist. 175 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:31.480 And I'm not I'm trying to not be partisan myself. I'm just objectively 176 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:35.840 you know this. Those are the incentives in the Republican Party to get on 177 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:43.960 Fox News, to uh, to be to be sensational on social media, 178 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:48.639 to raise money that way, and that has so that so you do not 179 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.639 need to be uh. It used to be that both parties are trying to 180 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:58.840 sort of capture the center in politics in order to win reelection or or or 181 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:03.159 or or beat an incumbent. And what's happened then, What sort of happened 182 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.840 was that, particularly in the House of Representatives, where if the Republican districts 183 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:13.120 were gerrymandered so that they were heavily concentrated Republican voters, the incentives was just 184 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:20.039 to worry about winning a Republican primary and not a concern about capturing voters in 185 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:26.279 the middle. And then that's when the dysfunction really started to take hold. 186 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:30.679 I have a counter intuitive view about this, so that which is that I 187 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:35.240 think it's getting better, which I know when you look at the day, 188 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:37.720 I was just going to say, get worse. What are we going to 189 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:46.120 do about it? All over that one so the but so if you you 190 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:52.200 know, progress doesn't happen in a straight line. And so let's say we 191 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.639 have complete dysfunction in the household right now, that it's been more than two 192 00:15:56.679 --> 00:16:03.600 weeks that there is no speak or and you know, we don't know, 193 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.799 I don't know it's recording this on Thursday, October nineteenth, I don't you 194 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.399 know, we can't. I don't know what's going to happen. If Jordan's 195 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:15.559 going to get the votes to become speaker today, I kind of doubt it. 196 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:19.120 I mean, he's moving out of panic right now as opposed to seems 197 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:25.919 like a position to strength that he actually has the votes. But if you 198 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:32.039 look at the first two years of the Biden administration, it was by far 199 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:41.399 the most bipartisan, productive, normal Congress that we have seen since George W. 200 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.840 Bush was president. There was you know, there was no these are 201 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:49.639 low bars, but there was no there was no true threat of a government 202 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:56.919 the government shutting down there uh they you know, there was no big showdown 203 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:03.679 over the debt limit. They passed bipartisan infrastructure bill after ten years of trying. 204 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:07.480 They passed a bill that's referred to as the Chips Bill that helps to 205 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:14.480 build semiconductor plans in the US. Really important foundational bill for both technology and 206 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:19.599 infrastructure in the US that will help for decades. The Congress, with just 207 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:26.799 Democratic votes, it passed the Inflation Reduction Act that did a lot on climate 208 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:30.880 but even on you know, by the bipartisan basis judges. This is a 209 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.599 very shocking thing to say, but a lot of judges were confirmed on a 210 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:40.759 bipartisan basis, including Supreme Court justices that Republicans voted for. And then even 211 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:44.119 when the Republicans took over the House, and this is what ended up being 212 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:48.640 Kevin McCarthy's downfall. But even when the Republicans took over the House under President 213 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:53.599 Biden in the last year, again they avoided a government shut down. Kevin 214 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:56.920 McCarthy was able. He worked with Democrats to do that. He worked with 215 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:03.519 Democrats to pass the down limit agreement. Now it then blew up on him 216 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:07.279 in his own caucus. But the point is there are Democrats in Republicans in 217 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:11.519 both the House and the Senate, particularly in the Senate uh gun control. 218 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:17.079 There, they passed a measure last year after the Vivaldi shooting to UH to 219 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:23.319 to make it harder for people who shouldn't have guns to buy them. So 220 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:29.720 that I think that and that's just happening because I think individual members of Congress 221 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.720 are making the decision that they just want government to work, you know, 222 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:38.200 And I think it's really important in particularly for Democrats, even beyond accomplishing you 223 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:42.960 know, particular goal, just not showing because on the other side, on 224 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:45.680 the Republican side, it's a lot of chaos, a lot of disruptions that 225 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:49.799 were represented by President Trump himself, but on the so on the democratic side, 226 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.279 like you need to prove that government can still work, that the democracy 227 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:59.519 can respond to the concerns that people it represents. And so I think that 228 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:07.039 even though we had this craziness right now that's concentrating the Republican caucus, there's 229 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:11.680 a lot of evidence that Congress is functioning. It's just true. It's just 230 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:15.359 a fact that it's functioning better than it has in twenty years. And you 231 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:19.440 know, for this thing to work, the Democrats have to come around as 232 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:23.359 well too, and they've refused. They refused to support McCarthy, and they 233 00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:30.160 refuse to support any of the current Republicans for Speaker of the House. What's 234 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.839 that about? So I think, you know, to go back to the 235 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:38.880 original McCarthy, the vote from two weeks ago, where no Democrats voted to 236 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.920 say McCarthy. I talked to a lot of I was on the Hell that 237 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:47.839 day. I talked to a lot of moderate Democrats, Democrats who often cross 238 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:52.720 over and vote with the Republicans, and each of them said it was there 239 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:55.119 was just no question in their mind, but that would be the wrong thing 240 00:19:55.160 --> 00:20:00.920 to do. That It would that, you know, Democrats and House can't 241 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:06.880 prop up a Republican speaker. It's just not going to work. And felt 242 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:08.319 that first of all, they have a larger problem, or probably have a 243 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:14.480 larger problem in their caucus. If you can't get two hundred and eighteen people 244 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:19.039 to vote for you, to vote for your leader after you won the majority, 245 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:22.119 you've got a bigger problem you need to work out on your own. 246 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.599 But then also as a practical matter, I think it would have fallen apart. 247 00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:30.119 I think if Democrats started to vote for Kevin McCarthy, that republic more 248 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:34.279 conservative Republicans would have bolted and not voted to save McCarthy because they would have 249 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:37.440 stopt you know, some kind of fixes in or it's just so, I 250 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:44.559 just don't think that it is palatable for without a broader agreement for Democrats to 251 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:48.119 elect a Republican speaker. Now. Having said that, the Democrat leader in 252 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:52.240 the House of King Jeffrey So I think is very able, very effective. 253 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.359 He has, you know, he said the next day, Democrats are standing 254 00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:02.119 ready, we are ready to work on a bipartisan basis to to you know, 255 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.000 he kind of leaves it open, but the point being it's kind of 256 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.680 like, make me an offer, you know, make me an offer about 257 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:11.839 something that we can that Democrats can get behind. And he has. You 258 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:15.920 know, there's a notion now that Patrick McHenry, the Republican Congressman who's currently 259 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:22.400 serving as a Speaker pro tem, uh that the Democrats could get behind a 260 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:26.680 deal that he remains, that he remains a speaker and you know, and 261 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:32.839 then presumably he would he would have to agree though to to you know, 262 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:37.240 some kind of agreement where the Democrats had not you know, not really a 263 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.000 power sharing agreement, but at least some some some guarantees about how that the 264 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:45.119 House, how the House was going to be conducted. We may end up 265 00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.319 there, you know, Like I I don't know, but I think that 266 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:53.400 Democrats certainly decided there was no way. They also felt like they couldn't trust 267 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:57.559 McCartney. You know, there's just also like there's honor among faiths in politics, 268 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:03.200 you know, and and they're there can be you know, like there 269 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.319 is and you know, there are Republicans they trust that sticks by their word, 270 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:10.599 and he is not one of them. And they're just like, there's 271 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:12.680 just no way we could ever trust even if he was offering to make us 272 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:17.039 a deal, that we could ever abide by it. So that's why the 273 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:21.400 days have thus far not been you know, participated. But I think that 274 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:26.519 they still could. Let's talk a little bit about the political ramifications, particularly 275 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:32.599 for Republicans and some moderate Republicans, one particularly from the area where I live. 276 00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:37.119 Mike Lawler. Mike Leler, Yeah, I've got to know him a 277 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:40.720 little bit. Has been all over the place, very well spoken, very 278 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.880 interesting in talks at least all the time about compromise going across the aisle, 279 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:53.480 and often very critical of some of his his Republican co members of Congress, 280 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:59.319 particularly the more radical, and we know we're talking about Marjorie Taylor Green, 281 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:04.640 Lauren Bolber, Matt Getz, et cetera. I think there are ramifications for 282 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:11.160 someone like that who won as a Republican in an area that was that overwhelmingly 283 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.680 voted for Biden. He has to be aware that people, even though he's 284 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:21.799 trying, he could be blamed for the failure of the government. So there 285 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:29.079 are political ramifications, particularly for more moderate Republicans like Michael. Yeah, there 286 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:33.960 eight there are eighteen House Republicans who live in districts that Joe Biden won, 287 00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:38.720 and he's you know, he's he's probably the savviest of the group. I 288 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:44.079 would say, you see him on MSNBC a lot his district, his district, 289 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:48.559 his district. I think his district could be the highest per capital of 290 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:53.519 the audience of MSNBC of any congressional district in the country, or certainly one 291 00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:59.480 of them. So he is very good at showing that he's trying to be 292 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:03.160 a different kind of Republican, and he has thus far, he has refused 293 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:07.519 to vote for Jim Jordan. But the DIC, you know, I think 294 00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:11.720 it's going to be very hard for the House for the for for people like 295 00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:19.279 I mean, Lawlor is a pretty, you know, pretty relatively talented politician. 296 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:23.279 He may survive, but I have a hard time seeing the Republicans being 297 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:27.720 able to hold onto the House in twenty twenty four when they cannot govern. 298 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:33.000 I mean, you are in charge, you have you. It's and Frank, 299 00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:36.039 it's not just that they can't, it's almost as if they don't want 300 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:38.880 to, you know, they're not. Brendon Bach, who was worked for 301 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:44.400 one of their former Republican speakers, his friend of mine, I can't. 302 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.400 I think he worked for he worked for Paul rant and he said, you 303 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.200 know, they're just the way the Republican Party is right now. They're just 304 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.599 they're not built to govern. They're just not They're built to be an opposition 305 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:56.200 and they can do that really well, and they can rile up their base 306 00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:00.680 really well. But they are not built to come to any kind of census. 307 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:03.079 And so I think it is going to be very difficult. If there 308 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:08.359 are twelve of the eighteen Republicans that represent Biden House districts that voted for Jim 309 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:14.759 Jordan, who, by the way, isn't you know Kevin McCarthy voted to 310 00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:18.319 overturn the presidential election in twenty twenty. I think people kind of don't realize 311 00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:19.680 that. I think they think that Kevin McCarthy is sort of a normal book 312 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:25.480 and he voted to not certify the presidential election in twenty twenty. But then 313 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:29.680 Jim Jordan is something wholly other because not only did he do that, but 314 00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:33.039 he was you know, he was helping behind he was behind the scenes, 315 00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:37.039 helping to try to orchestrate how the president, how President Trump could hijack the 316 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.799 election on the on the House and Senate floor. So it's just not an 317 00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:47.880 exaggeration to say he is an insurrectionist. And if Republican members and tough districts 318 00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:52.759 vote for them, the dj will see, which is the organization that Democratic 319 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.279 Congressional Campaign Committee that helps to allow Democrats to the House of Representatives. They're 320 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:02.440 fucking points on the day that the first day Jordan, the first day it 321 00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:07.200 was a Jordan votes of that any Republican in a battleground district that voted for 322 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:08.799 that, they would make sure that anyone who voted for him that there was 323 00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:12.559 a career ending move. I think they think it is a It just sort 324 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:19.359 of encapitulate, encapsulates you know, just maga extremism that people in those districts 325 00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:22.279 can have a hard time beaten back. I want to talk a little bit 326 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:29.519 about that and the so called Maga extremism. I think it's it's certainly fascinating 327 00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:33.920 to me that a relative handful nine people tend it changes from nine to ten 328 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:41.160 or eleven of these extreme Republicans again labeled as maga super support as a former 329 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:48.400 President Trump have that kind of control someone like a Matt Getz, who seems 330 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:53.720 to repel most people, I think nationally, yet has managed to garner an 331 00:26:53.839 --> 00:27:00.279 enormous amount of power, enough any way to throw Congress into a complete right. 332 00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.920 How can that be? How can that happen? Because Kevin McCarthy gave 333 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:07.839 him the power? You know, I mean they they need the you know, 334 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:12.599 I mean that is that is what what what happened was Kevin McCarthy could 335 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:19.880 not on his own gain he did he you know, didn't have the credibility, 336 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:25.160 the leadership skills whatever. For whatever reason, he was not able to 337 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:30.079 get two hundred and eighteen members of his own House caucus. And people, 338 00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:32.440 by the way, often talk about how like, oh, well, the 339 00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:37.160 Republicans, uh, their margins are so narrow that they only have a I 340 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:42.119 think it's it's the four or five set margin uh over the the over the 341 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:47.279 Democrats. That is, Kevin McCarthy had the exact same margin that Nancy Pelosi 342 00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:52.720 had, Okay, the exact same and she and look at everything she accomplished 343 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.960 in the first two years of the Biden administration with the same numbers. So 344 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:02.839 he was because I mean I and I think that Jonathan Martin, his friend 345 00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:06.200 of mine, who has the columnist for Politico, he had a great piece 346 00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:10.119 yesterday. It's just like, there's nothing that holds the Republican Party together right 347 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:15.920 now. And that's what you're seeing play out here right so you know, 348 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:22.759 so that they there's just not there's not any there's nothing that there's nothing that 349 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:29.599 is make there's no cohesion around an agenda, a particular set of principles. 350 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.440 So McCarthy had to make a bunch of deals in order to win the speakership 351 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.319 the first time. One of the deals he made was giving the power to 352 00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:44.319 any one person to you know, motion in the term is motion of ak, 353 00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:47.960 which means anyone person can say I want this, I want to vote 354 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.119 on removing the speaker by the way. That motion of ak was in place 355 00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:55.640 for a very long time, like one hundred years until twenty eighteen, and 356 00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:02.759 Nancy Pelosi had it removed because she's savvy and so it's not event So this 357 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:06.799 power has existed for a long time. No one ever used it because you 358 00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:12.160 see the result. It's a destructive It was switched gears just slightly. And 359 00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:18.440 it's certainly related to our conversation. But you mentioned it. Within the first 360 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:23.519 two years, the Biden administration has been, by most standards, enormously successful. 361 00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:27.200 There have been missteps, there have been issues the border we can talk 362 00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:34.799 about later, but there has also been a goodly amount of success. Yet 363 00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:41.000 the country is still almost equally divided. So you have the enormous political sense 364 00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:48.440 of Biden versus the continuing popularity of a man who has been indicted over has 365 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:53.200 been served over ninety indictments in former President Trump. Why is that? And 366 00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:59.880 why do you think the Biden administration has had such difficulty in conveying that. 367 00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.920 You know, they've overall have done very well. If you look at the 368 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:07.400 call numbers, they're still almost neck and neck. It's early, but that's 369 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:10.880 the truth. Yeah, they have I mean, I would say you know, 370 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:19.880 I mean the Biden administration has accomplished more than any presidency in the last 371 00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:26.079 sixty years. I mean, at this point, you have it's beyond LBG 372 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:29.720 at this point. At this point you have to go back to FDR. 373 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:34.519 So that is how phenomenally successful. Now people can agree, you know, 374 00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:40.279 just choose to agree or disagree with what they've done. But the truth is 375 00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:44.640 they've put in place with both the Infrastructure Bill and as I mentioned before, 376 00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:49.599 the Chips Bill, things you know, gains that will be made over decades 377 00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:55.160 for the United States and for the economy and sort of splaying a new a 378 00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:57.519 new, a new foundation that it can that it can grow from and really 379 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:03.799 put us in UH a position to be competitive, you know, to maintain 380 00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:11.200 our UH domination UH on the world global economic stage. But I think that 381 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:17.599 there's the two big problems are UH, the you know, the divided country. 382 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:19.319 And it's not just that we're divide over politics. We just we have 383 00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:22.799 different views of the truth. You know, we say that all the time. 384 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:32.319 Don't really positive appreciate how how damning that is. But the I I 385 00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:36.119 in my job at the circus, they spend a lot of time at Trump 386 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:40.559 rallies and talking to Trump supporters, and they you know a lot of them, 387 00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:42.599 you know, they believe they're doing the right thing. They believe President 388 00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:47.319 Trump tells them. They think he won the election. They think that the 389 00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:52.000 country is truly under siege. And uh, they're just not open to hearing 390 00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:56.880 anything about Biden and what Biden has done. And so where as you used 391 00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:04.359 to be able to win over some measure sure of Republicans by arguing facts, 392 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:07.920 there's just different view of facts. And then the second thing I think that's 393 00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:12.759 holding President Biden back, and this may change, is that even though the 394 00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:22.440 economic numbers are good, you know, wages arising, inflation is going down, 395 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:27.839 there's you know, very low unemployment, lots of job growth. Interest 396 00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:31.799 rates are you know at you know, the high as they've been in twenty 397 00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:39.000 years, and costs are still high. The average family, Mark Zandy's economist, 398 00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:43.720 I saw presentation by him recently and he said that the average family of 399 00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:49.640 four has their expenses are eight hundred dollars a month higher than they were when 400 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:54.200 Trump was president. That is a you know, that is a very big 401 00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:58.440 deal. That is a very big deal. People always think with their pockets 402 00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:01.400 or pocketbooks whatever the case, it's always been the case. You know what 403 00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:07.880 was favoring says the economy stupid. You know, that was a very a 404 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:15.440 very salient point, Jen before we take a break, and I want to 405 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:19.720 talk a little bit about the president's trip to Israel and what's going on there 406 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:25.759 and things of that nature. But before that, you mentioned the divide seems 407 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:30.559 to be widening and with people who just won't listen to reason or fact, 408 00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:36.160 they're just so and to a degree on both sides. But that's not also 409 00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:39.759 true if you haven't real it's not really because if you have real facts that 410 00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:44.599 are truthful facts, they are what they are, whether people want to listen 411 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:47.599 to them or not. But how did we get there where there is a 412 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:55.039 significant sixty million people are more voted for Trump based on many laws that they 413 00:33:55.160 --> 00:34:02.759 chose to believe. How did we get here? I think two factors. 414 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:12.320 One is we did not do a good job dealing with the impact of globalization 415 00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:23.639 and wage inequality and the growing disparity with wealth. So for the last thirty 416 00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:29.840 years, people have been losing jobs and industries that are going away in America. 417 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:35.920 Haven't done a good job of replacing them, haven't done a good job 418 00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:42.519 dealing with you know, at the richer getting richer, the poorer getting poorer, 419 00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:46.039 and Congress has not been as a you know noted before the last twenty 420 00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:51.639 years has been really ineffectual, and so people, I mean, there are 421 00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:55.519 notable exceptions to that. For example, passing Obamacare Affordable Care Act, it's 422 00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:00.880 you know, done enormous good in helping people save mone also helping people just 423 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:06.440 have access to healthcare. But you look at the education system, you look, 424 00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:09.639 you look at people who've lost you know, you look at these pockets 425 00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:15.800 of poverty in the United States that continue to grow as well. So I 426 00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:22.199 think there's a lot of disillusionment and people were ripe to uh tune into somebody 427 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:27.320 like Trump that wanted to blow everything up. You know, I talked to 428 00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:30.760 a lot of Trump supporters, and a lot of them will say the same 429 00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:34.039 thing. He says what I think, or we just need to blow it 430 00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.639 up. He's right about that, And then I think the other you know, 431 00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.920 the sort of like catastrophic collision, is that's happening at a time where 432 00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:49.519 you have the internet, like we're we used Frank, I mean, you 433 00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.079 were at CBS for a long time, like there used to be gates that 434 00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:55.320 you had to go through in order for your views to be heard on a 435 00:35:55.360 --> 00:36:00.360 massive scale. And that is just that is gone. And I don't think 436 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:05.559 that we appreciate how big of a deal that is. You know, people 437 00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:08.559 go back you know after you know, after the printing of the Bible, 438 00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:14.039 like and you know, and and and you know what that set off in 439 00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:19.519 the UH and in the globe when you had television and radio and then you 440 00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:23.000 had like the rise of uh you know, mass media. You had the 441 00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:28.559 rise of Hitlery, the rise of fascism, riots of communism, these these 442 00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:34.760 communication math the ability to communicate in a mass level sets off big changes in 443 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.039 the world. And so I think it's both of those things happening at the 444 00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:40.000 same time. Well, you see old it must be true. I saw 445 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:45.840 it on the internet. Yeah, I mean it's I mean, internet is 446 00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:50.880 bigger than television or radio. But you know, you know, it's just 447 00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:55.519 so it is, you know, And so then there's no truth because there's 448 00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:01.440 no agreed upon set of anything there used to be. Chen Let's let's take 449 00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:04.519 a little bit of a break here. When we come back, I want 450 00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:07.679 to talk a little bit about Israel and the Middle East and the President's trip 451 00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:12.559 there and what that meant and how that was organized. Also, want to 452 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:15.960 get your thoughts. One of the presidents, lawyer Sidney Powell, was found 453 00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:21.760 was actually pled guilty today. I want to get your thoughts on that, 454 00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:27.360 and also what's ahead with co hosting the circus, what's planned for the next 455 00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:30.679 season. So we've got a lot to talk about. I'm so glad that 456 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.239 you're here. This has been so fascinating. You're watching being Frank. I'm 457 00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:37.239 your host, Frank Lebono. Remember the only way to be is Frank. 458 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:40.400 My very special guest is Jennifer Palmiery. We're back with much more right after 459 00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:46.840 these brief commercial messages. Hudson River Radio dot com bring a dash of green 460 00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:52.239 into your life. Check out the Many Shades of Green with Maxine, Margaret 461 00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:58.079 Rubin and Malcolm Berman. Get informed about environmental issues and current events that affect 462 00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:01.880 us all pic achete of Green, and raise your eco consciousness with the Many 463 00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:08.239 Shades of Green available on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify or wherever you get 464 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:15.920 your podcasts. This is Hudson Riverradio dot com, your local Rockland County station. 465 00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:22.719 Check out the Angel Quest Show with psychic media and author Karen Noe. 466 00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:30.159 Karen covers spiritual topics such as near death experiences, reincarnation, life after death, 467 00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:34.000 how your thoughts create your reality, creating peace on Earth, and so 468 00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:38.159 much more. Check out The Angel Quest Show on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, 469 00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:47.920 Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hudsonriverradio dot com. Welcome back 470 00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:53.000 to Being Frank. Remember we bring you a new topical program every week beginning 471 00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:58.920 on Thursdays, but you can listen at your convenience. Every program is archives, 472 00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:02.199 so you can listen to Being Frank virtually any time you want to. 473 00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.440 We think it's the intelligent thing to do, and we're sure having some intelligent 474 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:15.360 conversation with my very special guest, Jennifer Palmieri genuine teased a little before the 475 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:21.800 commercial break. The President was just in Israel following the horrific attacks by Hamas, 476 00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:28.800 which virtually entire world has condemned. But he must walk an incredible tightrope 477 00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:34.159 between the support of Israel and their right to exist and their right to defend 478 00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:42.920 themselves, but yet at the same time deal with the retaliation that Israel must 479 00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:46.760 do, at least on some level to protect themselves. So in other words, 480 00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:52.199 it's a real balancing act. And to travel to Israel in a battle 481 00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:58.159 zone that must have sent the White House into an incredible amount of prenetic activity 482 00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:01.639 to tell us what that might be like. So the amazing I mean it. 483 00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:08.960 I was shocked that they announced that he was going to Israel, because 484 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:13.639 we do. When I work for both President Clinton and President Obama, and 485 00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:15.800 you know this, Frank from working for CBS, we would do what we 486 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:21.000 would call dark and night trips, and that's that's when you would go to 487 00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:25.639 Afghanistan or Iraq. So in my experience and working for President Obama and President 488 00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:30.159 Clinton, we bring the press with us, but we're in a small pool 489 00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:32.559 of press on Air Force one. We take them into a room in the 490 00:40:32.559 --> 00:40:37.039 White House and tell them you are going on this trip. You're not to 491 00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:42.000 tell anyone. They don't tell their editors, they don't tell their family members 492 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:46.400 were what's happening. They just disappear. There's no public notice, and then 493 00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:52.199 we wake up to the news. You know, President Obama arrived in Afghanistan 494 00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:58.960 overnight, or or more recently, President Biden arrived in you know, we 495 00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:04.639 woke up with the President Biden is in Kiev active war zone. And so 496 00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:08.599 I mean, given how dangerous the region is in general, but after what 497 00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:12.639 happened that the fact that why a Tony Blinken, the Secretary of State, 498 00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:17.639 walked out of a meeting in the region and said President Biden has come in 499 00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:21.920 Israel on Wednesday, on Monday night, you know, so that means that 500 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.079 there's thirty six hours to get a trip together, but also thirty six hours 501 00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:29.480 that the people who wish you ill are aware of the President United States is 502 00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:36.880 coming to coming to a war zone. So you know, I guess the 503 00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:39.400 time was in their favor and that the people who want to cause trouble don't 504 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:42.920 have a lot of time to prepare, but you don't have the element of 505 00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:45.840 surprise, and they had to quickly put this trip together. So it was 506 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:50.599 scary in terms of just his safety. You know. Fortunately, you know, 507 00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:54.039 it worked out, It all works out fine. But then just incredibly 508 00:41:54.119 --> 00:42:00.280 high stakes and very tricky political balance, and and you know what happens just 509 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:05.480 as the President is leaving to get on Air Force one to fly over there, 510 00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:15.400 Uh, there's the horrible bombing of the hospital in Gaza, and the 511 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:17.920 you know, he's supposed to be with the UH. He's supposed to meet 512 00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:22.480 with Preme Miister and net Yahoo and then do an Arab summit in Jordan, 513 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:25.639 and the Arab leaders pull out, and so now he is the balance is 514 00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:30.079 gone, right, He's walking on Air Force one and all it's all it's 515 00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:37.840 all tilted towards backing Israel. And that is a very scary proposition as you're 516 00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:39.159 you know, getting present United States on this plane to go do this. 517 00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:44.440 I think they did a remarkable job, you know, going to Israel. 518 00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:45.800 And you know, he said, he kept saying, The President kept saying. 519 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:50.719 A number one message is you are not alone. Israel is not alone, 520 00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:54.320 like the United States will always back you. But because he went and 521 00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:59.920 showed his space there and stood with Israel, he was also able to say 522 00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:06.360 eight to Prime Minister net Yahoo, you know, the concerns about limiting impact 523 00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:12.360 to civilians and protecting Palestinian civilians, making the point to the world that Palestinians 524 00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:16.719 and Hamas are not the same thing. You know, they're there are the 525 00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:23.239 Palestinian civilians are caught in this crossfire from what the terrorists you control, you 526 00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:29.440 know who who who control their region, are are putting them in this situation, 527 00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:35.119 and so I think that they did a remarkable job from you know what 528 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:37.960 what they said on the ground to the israelis what that gave him the room 529 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:44.239 to say about protecting Palestinians. The humility with which President Biden said, you 530 00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:47.440 know, we had our nine to eleven and learned from our mistakes about how 531 00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:52.920 you know, we may have over corrected in our in our in our response 532 00:43:53.039 --> 00:44:00.480 and be smart about this. And then on after the after the trip, 533 00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:02.599 on the way home, went to the back of the plane on Air Force 534 00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:07.639 one to talk to the press something the press really appreciates, something that the 535 00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:13.239 president almost never does, and said, if if you know, after being 536 00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:16.079 so supportive of Israel and continuing to be supportive of Israel, also saying if 537 00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:23.119 there are unacceptable Palestinian casualties of civilians, we're going to hold Israel accountable and 538 00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:28.800 so and then came back landed it in DC and said we're going to do 539 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:30.760 an He's going to do an Oval Office address on Thursday night, which is 540 00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:37.400 the Kupda grad The ultimate thing, the ultimate tool and your toolkit as president 541 00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:39.840 of communicating to the American public is the Oval Office address. And that's what 542 00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:45.360 are going to do tonight, can now communicate to the American people what is 543 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:51.400 at stake and what our interests are here. So I mean that is talk 544 00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:54.840 about high stakes. When the rug gets pulled out from under you as you're 545 00:44:55.159 --> 00:45:01.599 leaving, I think they handled it really well. A relative question, Let's 546 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:07.039 talk about the leadership role that the United States plays in the in the world. 547 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:10.239 Uh, there are those who feel we shouldn't take care of our own 548 00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:15.719 first, et cetera, and would limit the role that we play in the 549 00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:19.519 world. None agrees with that. What are your thoughts, Jed? How 550 00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:24.840 important is it for us to or or not to play a major role in 551 00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:30.559 world politics. I am a big believer in engagement, you know, they 552 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:35.559 I think you can want. Biden has managed to do thus far, and 553 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:37.960 you know, we don't need this. What's happening in the Middle East right 554 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:44.400 now is very you know, volatile and carry situation. But he's managed to 555 00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:51.480 restore American leadership in the world. You know, I'm thinking of Ukraine and 556 00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:55.599 and rallying NATO, which after the Trump years was maybe there's a question about 557 00:45:55.639 --> 00:46:00.239 that alliance was going to survive, that alliance was even relevant anymore? Are 558 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:05.400 you know, in the post Cold War world. And I believe that, 559 00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:12.000 you know, holding native together in that in that way sort of re established 560 00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:15.840 US as a global leader. And then you know, President Biden has dove 561 00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:25.039 headfirst into the current conflict, you know, in a way that maybe he 562 00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:35.599 didn't maybe you know, other presidents haven't in recent decades. I felt that 563 00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:38.880 American leadership was really called for. I think that like, why does it 564 00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:45.559 matter the world? You know, it's it's a very global world. What 565 00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:50.480 happens in other parts of the world affects us. It certainly affects us economically, 566 00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:55.480 it's certainly terrorism certainly affects us personally. And the US, you know, 567 00:46:55.559 --> 00:47:00.360 Madame all Bright would also calls the indispensable nation. And when there's really 568 00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:04.920 you know, there's the other. You know, there's no Soviet Union, 569 00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:07.760 there is China, but there's no one else. There is a vacuum of 570 00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:10.960 leadership on the world stage to try to, you know, keep just keep 571 00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:15.440 a lid on things. And so while there can be isolation as tendencies in 572 00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:20.400 the US, our geography certainly allows for that in some ways. It just 573 00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:22.280 does you know, in the global world, it you know, you you 574 00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:28.840 you were not safe from you you can You cannot insulate yourselves from these challenges, 575 00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:32.559 and so I think that it is really important. And while you know 576 00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:37.760 this, this still be a difficult time coming for the manings. A lot 577 00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:40.199 of people say it's going to go before it gets better. You just got 578 00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:44.840 to take it day by day. And that's far. The US has really 579 00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:49.320 played an important role here and keeping things from descending. It could have in 580 00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:53.119 the first week descended into uh, you know how the war expand hasn't happened 581 00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:58.480 yet. Now it's really switched here. So I want to get your thoughts. 582 00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:02.559 We found out one of President Trump's lawyers, Sidney Powell, pled guilty 583 00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:07.360 in the Georgia election case. What what are some of your feelings on that 584 00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:14.320 situation? So not an expert, but my friends who are you know, 585 00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:16.719 you know she she made a deal, and so that this is not the 586 00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:21.760 first time that's happened. There's going to be uh, you know, he 587 00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:25.480 has there's a trial that starts, you know, that starts next week that 588 00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:30.280 he's going to be involved in. When you look at the political calendar next 589 00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:37.239 year, Ryan, there's Egen Carroll case happens, it meets again in January 590 00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:42.639 and then the day before super Tuesday is when the election case, you know, 591 00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:46.159 another the elections case, I think it starts. So he's going to 592 00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:52.559 be you know, he's facing people are turning on him, and you know, 593 00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:57.880 we could very well be facing by the time we get to the election, 594 00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:04.280 the Republican presidential candidate for presidented States having been convicted. It's just it's 595 00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:07.239 like kind of hard to wrap your head around what that's gonna just be like. 596 00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:12.239 But it's just extraordinary. Yeah, yeah, extraordinary. Jim befre we 597 00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:14.880 have a little bit of time left. I want to know what's next for 598 00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:17.519 you with the circus. You work with MSNBC and all. You'll be at 599 00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:22.159 the White House tonight. That's why, so please that you took yeah to 600 00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:27.320 join us. You're a busy lady. Let's next, don't Jennifer Palmieri's cadis 601 00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:30.519 Oh my god. So the circus is back. So we uh, this 602 00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:34.360 is our We've been back for two weeks. We have four more weeks. 603 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:38.400 We do sort of like you know, we blocked uh uh break it down 604 00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:44.880 into different blocks because it's very it's very intense when you do it. And 605 00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:49.079 so we're on Sunday night at seven o'clock on Showtime Arizgon at seven thirty, 606 00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:53.800 also ten and ten thirty for the again for the West Coast, and this 607 00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:59.480 week we are looking at you know, we started the week saying, you 608 00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:07.280 know, looking to see how the how President Biden was dealing with the Israeli 609 00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:15.000 crisis and look to see how that was impacting his political fortunes standing overall. 610 00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:20.199 And uh, you know, there's you know, that was our theory at 611 00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:22.719 the end of the week. And then of course the week got more dramatic, 612 00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:28.599 both in Washington with the Republicans and then overseas as well. So that's 613 00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:31.840 what we're so we have We're on for four more weeks and then on MSNBC. 614 00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:34.880 By the way, I have a new podcast and I'm doing with Clara 615 00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:37.960 mccaskell. Oh cool. It's called Yeah, it's very cool. It's called 616 00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:42.280 How to Win twenty twenty four. And so each week we focus on, 617 00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:45.519 you know, kind of look at the political current political situation, say okay, 618 00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:50.280 now, how you know, look, we look very specifically at the 619 00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:54.840 electoral implications of of of what is happening. So we'll run every Thursday between 620 00:50:54.840 --> 00:51:01.000 now and the twenty twenty four election. Well, you're amazing you know you 621 00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:06.760 should uh for complete transparency. Your your husband, Jim and I are h 622 00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:12.000 plus your friends. We're childhood friends and we're looking to slow down. We 623 00:51:12.039 --> 00:51:15.559 talk about it all the time, and you just keep going faster and fast. 624 00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:20.000 That is not true for either one of you. You never you never 625 00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:22.559 cease to amaze me, Jennifer, honestly, and again, I want to 626 00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:27.920 thank you for your intelligent conversation here on being Frank. Really a pleasure and 627 00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:30.280 I know how busy you are, so it means a lot. Always a 628 00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:34.199 pleasure, All pleasure, Frank And of course we arefer special thanks to our 629 00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:37.440 listeners who take time to give us a voice in their lives. Remember we 630 00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:42.559 offer a fresh topic every week. Catch us wherever and whenever you get your 631 00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:47.360 favorite podcasts that's Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, specret more. You can also 632 00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:52.599 check us out on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page. Like us, leave 633 00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:55.159 a comment, and when you add, we ask you that you consider sharing 634 00:51:55.239 --> 00:52:00.599 Being Frank with others. Of course, I've got a couple of little nuggets 635 00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:04.239 left for you. This one is from Ben Franklin, and I think it's 636 00:52:04.360 --> 00:52:07.840 very appropriate, appropriate considering what's going on in the world. There never was 637 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:14.440 a good war or a bad piece. We have some music for you too, 638 00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:19.840 from a good friend Babner Sissy and he's just has just very clever songs. 639 00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:22.800 You'll appreciate if you listen and listen to the lyrics. This one is 640 00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:28.199 called live aids, not live aid Live aids. It's interesting. I think 641 00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:31.239 you'll find it as such. So for our engineer Neil Richter, I'm your 642 00:52:31.239 --> 00:52:35.719 host, Frank Levuono. We hope to have you join us for the next 643 00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:39.079 being. Frank, We're the only way to be is Frank. Thanks for 644 00:52:39.159 --> 00:52:46.719 listening. Pleasure Realli flair of the nineties needs of America to the really badlic 645 00:52:47.039 --> 00:53:35.159 of wits and stands, supplings of people, people taking the seafo I've got 646 00:53:35.480 --> 00:54:21.559 damn people can see food, they hung the stops can't damn school from that 647 00:54:22.360 --> 00:55:13.760 was why God God that wings well, said mister cape In markeularns the box 648 00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:30.159 and rather bad VOCALI radity for mask, super fucking Albush, super fucking audience, 649 00:55:32.719 --> 00:56:06.039 so fucking abbish, so fucking obvious, working all so fucking albis. 650 00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:09.559 This is Hudson River Radio dot Com, your local Rockland County station.