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Being Frank virtually anytime that you want. We think it's the intelligent thing to
do. For context, we are going, as we call it, the
industry live to tape on the nineteenth of October. The current dysfunction we are
seeing in Congress has become far more than an inconvenience to the American people.
It's a clear and present danger. The Republican majority in the House of Representatives
has failed to coalesce around anyone they might find suitable to fill the vacant role
a Speaker of the House, and without one, that body continues to fail
and its only true mission, the governance of the country, unfortunately, is
emblematic of the growing partisan divide that has become the norm to many of our
representatives has chosen party over country, and it seems to be getting worse,
or perhaps in one way or another, it's always been that way. Joining
us now to give her a unique insiders perspective, gain from years on the
national political scene, including two stands inside the White House. So director of
communications for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, to frequent guest on ms NBC and co
host of the very popular showtime series The Circus, and a very busy lady
today my friend Jennifer Palmiery. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us.
I mean that lots going on today. The President is speaking tonight,
we have to talk about Congress, we have to talk about Israel. So
I really appreciate you taking the time. You know, I'm always happy to
talk to you. Frank, I love it. Yeah, it's really really
it's our pleasure. Well, let's talk a little bit about the role of
speaker. What does it mean to be Speaker of the House, Well,
it means that you're presiding over the business of the House, and the speaker
largely controls what bills come to the floor and when, so it is the
ultimate It's it's a management job. I mean, it comes with enormous power.
But because you do design, because you are you are ultimately the one
who's deciding you know when, when which regition is gonna is going to get
voted on and uh. But you also you know when you have a divided
Congress like we have now in uh White House, in one party in the
House and another, it's also a big uh. It's a compromise job.
And you know that the most successful speakers are the ones that know how to
keep their coalition together, keep their UH caucus aligned, but also are able
to have enough credibility within their caucus, you know, like the in Jordan's
case, the House Republican caucus, that they are able to negotiate deals when
they need to sort of on their own right, because you can't have four
hundred and thirty five members in a room. And Nancy Pelosi is emblematic as
somebody who was very successful in trying to do both things right. She she
she was really great at holding her caucus together. The big show is you
know, you know she would never bring you ask if the bill is going
to pass, and the question is the Nancy plusy bring it to the floor,
because anty pussy is not bringing a bill to the floor that is not
going to pass. That is never going to happen, and it never did
happen. But she also had enough credibility with the Democrats that she was able
to negotiate when she needed to with the Senate Republicans to gunt and know that
her caucus was ultimately going to back her with whatever she compromises she had to
make. So it is, it's a pretty thing. It can be often
a very thankless job. Is a very hard job. It requires a lot
of nuance and skill. Well, let's talk about right now with it.
There's a numbers game, and we mentioned artisan politics and the compromise, et
cetera. Two hundred and eighteen votes are needed to get the full majority to
elect the Speaker of the House. But in a in a divided house where
it seems like just everybody goes strictly acording to party lines, how does anyone
get to that number. I mean, well, yeah, it's I mean
it's well, we've never we've never had before, We've never had a party
failed to be able to unite behind one leader. So that has that's just
not happened, you know. You just you don't go to the floor and
wing it thea like Kevin McCarthy did in January, where it took fifteen votes
in order for him to finally get a majority to get to to eighteen and
become speaker. So the you know, it is not you know, there's
there's now sort of a question and it's I mean, Frank like I it's
it's you know, we're doing this Thursday afternoon. I didn't look at the
New York Times for an hour thought, you know, and thought that the
Republicans had decided that they would not try to opt for a third vote of
trying to get Jim Jordan O were uh to uh to tow eighteen And an
hour later they've decided no, They're going to go forward again. So this
is it is it is. It's not something that in modern certainly in modern
political history, certainly like in the last hundred years, this just is not
a situation that we have been in before. You know, it's interesting because
I said, I better check a quick look at see and then to see
what the latest is because the situation has been that mercial and and changing so
rapidly. Now you're you're the veteran of two administrations, correct, Clinton and
Obama? Clinton? Obama? Yeah, yes, So what was who was
speaker at that time? Was Pelosi? For for both of administrations? It
was for Clinton it was Tom Foley and then and then new Gingridge and he
didn't last he did not last very long. And then it was Bob Livingston
for like a hot minute, and then I guess it was Denny Hastert,
and then for Obama it was Pelosi, and then Bayner and then Ryan and
yeah, no, I was just gonna say, and Baine, I would
say, you know, Bayner and Ryan, uh it was. I would
say, that is where it started. You could see the House Republican Caucus
start to break down in terms of its ability to hold uh you know,
to to hold their members together. And Bayner and Ryan both had really difficult
times trying to uh uh you know, particularly Ryan when he was speaker in
the Trump administration, very difficult time holding holding their their their own party members
together, and so they proved to be ineffectual. And you know, they
were usually elected. You know, they're elected in mid terms. That's what
happens. Right at president it's elected midterm election. The other party does better,
might take over control of the Congress. But you know, with any
moment years they just they they not. Even though Bayner and Ryan were sort
of in the mold of what you want in a speaker, kind of a
traditional establishment, not a grand standard, someone who can work effectively behind the
scenes, but even they couldn't, uh, you know, had a hard
time keeping their caucus aligned. Talk about the relationship that the speaker has with
the president is a very direct relationship. Is it a hands on relationship?
Do they do they meet on a regular basis and answer that person follow up
question from there? No, it depends. I mean I think that the
speaker that probably work the most directly with the president that I can recall as
Tip O'Neill and President Reagan. They I wouldn't say that happened all the time,
but they had divided government. The House was constantly the House was in
Tip O'Neill's control the entire time that Reagan was president, and there was a
lot that did pass on a bipartisan basis, so they did have to work
together. They were very ideologically in different places, but seem to respect each
other and and kind of enjoy sparring with each other. But I would say
you Pelosi and Obama had a good relationship. They It's not the kind of
thing where you're going to talk to them every week, but when you are,
but when you're in the situation of having to get something done, it
is you may talk to the speaker five times in one day. So it
kind of goes and fits and starts. There will be meet meetings are largely
ceremonial. They usually happen when you're trying to, you know, show that
you're working together and trying to make progress if you're at loggerheads or get when
you're getting ready to kick something off. But it's important that there is it's
important that there's a lot of trust in that relationship. Well, the perfect
segue with that in mind, Jen, you have two powerful people, in
some cases a woman, in other cases a man of supposedly with the balance
of power in a sense almost equally powerful, almost, but there's the enormous
power of the president president. Is that always there is that? Is the
speaker always aware of that or are they more on equal footing? What you're
feeling with that? Well, I think normally this honestly, I think when
it comes to dealing with the president, the speaker usually is I would say
has more power than the president does because the speaker the president doesn't have anything
that necessarily that the speaker was. The speaker very much has something that the
president wants. And of course, being president the United States might be the
most powerful job in the world. It's also the job with the president has
a lot of power. They don't have a lot of control, right,
you have very little control when you're a president and uh, and that you
know, that's it's very any anything that happens in the world can become your
problem, your responsibility can up end whatever you have planned. And this the
speaker, uh, you know, they will need the president to not undercut
them if they will need this the president to sign off on a deal that
they need the president's support. But really it is uh, the speaker that
the president that's relying on the speaker to move a legislative agenda on their behalf.
Interesting. Well, yeah, another point that you spoke of too,
is working across the aisle yea a description mixed you that was Republican Congress and
a Democrat or vice versa. Yeah, and again we see that divine getting
wider. But before to get to that, how did it work? How
do they make it work? Can you mentioned people can be really diametrically opposed
in a very deep sense and yet still get stuff done. How so the
I would say, my first sort of up close look at that was during
the Clinton administration in nineteen ninety four. We lost both the House and the
Senate. It was very historic. It was the first time in forty years
that Republicans controlled the House. It was an earthquake of epic proportions politically,
and Clinton saw immediately an opportunity to try to work with Republicans to you know,
to move to move things forward. Particularly this is on the budget was
the big example of where this was done on a bipartisan basis. Two years
later, enacted a balanced for the first time in a very long time in
the UH in in US history. It can happen when the incentives in both
parties are aligned to get something done and the problem and what's happened in the
more recent history, in the last decade and a half maybe is that the
incentives and the Republican Party are such that you are rewarded for being an extremist.
And I'm not I'm trying to not be partisan myself. I'm just objectively
you know this. Those are the incentives in the Republican Party to get on
Fox News, to uh, to be to be sensational on social media,
to raise money that way, and that has so that so you do not
need to be uh. It used to be that both parties are trying to
sort of capture the center in politics in order to win reelection or or or
or or beat an incumbent. And what's happened then, What sort of happened
was that, particularly in the House of Representatives, where if the Republican districts
were gerrymandered so that they were heavily concentrated Republican voters, the incentives was just
to worry about winning a Republican primary and not a concern about capturing voters in
the middle. And then that's when the dysfunction really started to take hold.
I have a counter intuitive view about this, so that which is that I
think it's getting better, which I know when you look at the day,
I was just going to say, get worse. What are we going to
do about it? All over that one so the but so if you you
know, progress doesn't happen in a straight line. And so let's say we
have complete dysfunction in the household right now, that it's been more than two
weeks that there is no speak or and you know, we don't know,
I don't know it's recording this on Thursday, October nineteenth, I don't you
know, we can't. I don't know what's going to happen. If Jordan's
going to get the votes to become speaker today, I kind of doubt it.
I mean, he's moving out of panic right now as opposed to seems
like a position to strength that he actually has the votes. But if you
look at the first two years of the Biden administration, it was by far
the most bipartisan, productive, normal Congress that we have seen since George W.
Bush was president. There was you know, there was no these are
low bars, but there was no there was no true threat of a government
the government shutting down there uh they you know, there was no big showdown
over the debt limit. They passed bipartisan infrastructure bill after ten years of trying.
They passed a bill that's referred to as the Chips Bill that helps to
build semiconductor plans in the US. Really important foundational bill for both technology and
infrastructure in the US that will help for decades. The Congress, with just
Democratic votes, it passed the Inflation Reduction Act that did a lot on climate
but even on you know, by the bipartisan basis judges. This is a
very shocking thing to say, but a lot of judges were confirmed on a
bipartisan basis, including Supreme Court justices that Republicans voted for. And then even
when the Republicans took over the House, and this is what ended up being
Kevin McCarthy's downfall. But even when the Republicans took over the House under President
Biden in the last year, again they avoided a government shut down. Kevin
McCarthy was able. He worked with Democrats to do that. He worked with
Democrats to pass the down limit agreement. Now it then blew up on him
in his own caucus. But the point is there are Democrats in Republicans in
both the House and the Senate, particularly in the Senate uh gun control.
There, they passed a measure last year after the Vivaldi shooting to UH to
to make it harder for people who shouldn't have guns to buy them. So
that I think that and that's just happening because I think individual members of Congress
are making the decision that they just want government to work, you know,
And I think it's really important in particularly for Democrats, even beyond accomplishing you
know, particular goal, just not showing because on the other side, on
the Republican side, it's a lot of chaos, a lot of disruptions that
were represented by President Trump himself, but on the so on the democratic side,
like you need to prove that government can still work, that the democracy
can respond to the concerns that people it represents. And so I think that
even though we had this craziness right now that's concentrating the Republican caucus, there's
a lot of evidence that Congress is functioning. It's just true. It's just
a fact that it's functioning better than it has in twenty years. And you
know, for this thing to work, the Democrats have to come around as
well too, and they've refused. They refused to support McCarthy, and they
refuse to support any of the current Republicans for Speaker of the House. What's
that about? So I think, you know, to go back to the
original McCarthy, the vote from two weeks ago, where no Democrats voted to
say McCarthy. I talked to a lot of I was on the Hell that
day. I talked to a lot of moderate Democrats, Democrats who often cross
over and vote with the Republicans, and each of them said it was there
was just no question in their mind, but that would be the wrong thing
to do. That It would that, you know, Democrats and House can't
prop up a Republican speaker. It's just not going to work. And felt
that first of all, they have a larger problem, or probably have a
larger problem in their caucus. If you can't get two hundred and eighteen people
to vote for you, to vote for your leader after you won the majority,
you've got a bigger problem you need to work out on your own.
But then also as a practical matter, I think it would have fallen apart.
I think if Democrats started to vote for Kevin McCarthy, that republic more
conservative Republicans would have bolted and not voted to save McCarthy because they would have
stopt you know, some kind of fixes in or it's just so, I
just don't think that it is palatable for without a broader agreement for Democrats to
elect a Republican speaker. Now. Having said that, the Democrat leader in
the House of King Jeffrey So I think is very able, very effective.
He has, you know, he said the next day, Democrats are standing
ready, we are ready to work on a bipartisan basis to to you know,
he kind of leaves it open, but the point being it's kind of
like, make me an offer, you know, make me an offer about
something that we can that Democrats can get behind. And he has. You
know, there's a notion now that Patrick McHenry, the Republican Congressman who's currently
serving as a Speaker pro tem, uh that the Democrats could get behind a
deal that he remains, that he remains a speaker and you know, and
then presumably he would he would have to agree though to to you know,
some kind of agreement where the Democrats had not you know, not really a
power sharing agreement, but at least some some some guarantees about how that the
House, how the House was going to be conducted. We may end up
there, you know, Like I I don't know, but I think that
Democrats certainly decided there was no way. They also felt like they couldn't trust
McCartney. You know, there's just also like there's honor among faiths in politics,
you know, and and they're there can be you know, like there
is and you know, there are Republicans they trust that sticks by their word,
and he is not one of them. And they're just like, there's
just no way we could ever trust even if he was offering to make us
a deal, that we could ever abide by it. So that's why the
days have thus far not been you know, participated. But I think that
they still could. Let's talk a little bit about the political ramifications, particularly
for Republicans and some moderate Republicans, one particularly from the area where I live.
Mike Lawler. Mike Leler, Yeah, I've got to know him a
little bit. Has been all over the place, very well spoken, very
interesting in talks at least all the time about compromise going across the aisle,
and often very critical of some of his his Republican co members of Congress,
particularly the more radical, and we know we're talking about Marjorie Taylor Green,
Lauren Bolber, Matt Getz, et cetera. I think there are ramifications for
someone like that who won as a Republican in an area that was that overwhelmingly
voted for Biden. He has to be aware that people, even though he's
trying, he could be blamed for the failure of the government. So there
are political ramifications, particularly for more moderate Republicans like Michael. Yeah, there
eight there are eighteen House Republicans who live in districts that Joe Biden won,
and he's you know, he's he's probably the savviest of the group. I
would say, you see him on MSNBC a lot his district, his district,
his district. I think his district could be the highest per capital of
the audience of MSNBC of any congressional district in the country, or certainly one
of them. So he is very good at showing that he's trying to be
a different kind of Republican, and he has thus far, he has refused
to vote for Jim Jordan. But the DIC, you know, I think
it's going to be very hard for the House for the for for people like
I mean, Lawlor is a pretty, you know, pretty relatively talented politician.
He may survive, but I have a hard time seeing the Republicans being
able to hold onto the House in twenty twenty four when they cannot govern.
I mean, you are in charge, you have you. It's and Frank,
it's not just that they can't, it's almost as if they don't want
to, you know, they're not. Brendon Bach, who was worked for
one of their former Republican speakers, his friend of mine, I can't.
I think he worked for he worked for Paul rant and he said, you
know, they're just the way the Republican Party is right now. They're just
they're not built to govern. They're just not They're built to be an opposition
and they can do that really well, and they can rile up their base
really well. But they are not built to come to any kind of census.
And so I think it is going to be very difficult. If there
are twelve of the eighteen Republicans that represent Biden House districts that voted for Jim
Jordan, who, by the way, isn't you know Kevin McCarthy voted to
overturn the presidential election in twenty twenty. I think people kind of don't realize
that. I think they think that Kevin McCarthy is sort of a normal book
and he voted to not certify the presidential election in twenty twenty. But then
Jim Jordan is something wholly other because not only did he do that, but
he was you know, he was helping behind he was behind the scenes,
helping to try to orchestrate how the president, how President Trump could hijack the
election on the on the House and Senate floor. So it's just not an
exaggeration to say he is an insurrectionist. And if Republican members and tough districts
vote for them, the dj will see, which is the organization that Democratic
Congressional Campaign Committee that helps to allow Democrats to the House of Representatives. They're
fucking points on the day that the first day Jordan, the first day it
was a Jordan votes of that any Republican in a battleground district that voted for
that, they would make sure that anyone who voted for him that there was
a career ending move. I think they think it is a It just sort
of encapitulate, encapsulates you know, just maga extremism that people in those districts
can have a hard time beaten back. I want to talk a little bit
about that and the so called Maga extremism. I think it's it's certainly fascinating
to me that a relative handful nine people tend it changes from nine to ten
or eleven of these extreme Republicans again labeled as maga super support as a former
President Trump have that kind of control someone like a Matt Getz, who seems
to repel most people, I think nationally, yet has managed to garner an
enormous amount of power, enough any way to throw Congress into a complete right.
How can that be? How can that happen? Because Kevin McCarthy gave
him the power? You know, I mean they they need the you know,
I mean that is that is what what what happened was Kevin McCarthy could
not on his own gain he did he you know, didn't have the credibility,
the leadership skills whatever. For whatever reason, he was not able to
get two hundred and eighteen members of his own House caucus. And people,
by the way, often talk about how like, oh, well, the
Republicans, uh, their margins are so narrow that they only have a I
think it's it's the four or five set margin uh over the the over the
Democrats. That is, Kevin McCarthy had the exact same margin that Nancy Pelosi
had, Okay, the exact same and she and look at everything she accomplished
in the first two years of the Biden administration with the same numbers. So
he was because I mean I and I think that Jonathan Martin, his friend
of mine, who has the columnist for Politico, he had a great piece
yesterday. It's just like, there's nothing that holds the Republican Party together right
now. And that's what you're seeing play out here right so you know,
so that they there's just not there's not any there's nothing that there's nothing that
is make there's no cohesion around an agenda, a particular set of principles.
So McCarthy had to make a bunch of deals in order to win the speakership
the first time. One of the deals he made was giving the power to
any one person to you know, motion in the term is motion of ak,
which means anyone person can say I want this, I want to vote
on removing the speaker by the way. That motion of ak was in place
for a very long time, like one hundred years until twenty eighteen, and
Nancy Pelosi had it removed because she's savvy and so it's not event So this
power has existed for a long time. No one ever used it because you
see the result. It's a destructive It was switched gears just slightly. And
it's certainly related to our conversation. But you mentioned it. Within the first
two years, the Biden administration has been, by most standards, enormously successful.
There have been missteps, there have been issues the border we can talk
about later, but there has also been a goodly amount of success. Yet
the country is still almost equally divided. So you have the enormous political sense
of Biden versus the continuing popularity of a man who has been indicted over has
been served over ninety indictments in former President Trump. Why is that? And
why do you think the Biden administration has had such difficulty in conveying that.
You know, they've overall have done very well. If you look at the
call numbers, they're still almost neck and neck. It's early, but that's
the truth. Yeah, they have I mean, I would say you know,
I mean the Biden administration has accomplished more than any presidency in the last
sixty years. I mean, at this point, you have it's beyond LBG
at this point. At this point you have to go back to FDR.
So that is how phenomenally successful. Now people can agree, you know,
just choose to agree or disagree with what they've done. But the truth is
they've put in place with both the Infrastructure Bill and as I mentioned before,
the Chips Bill, things you know, gains that will be made over decades
for the United States and for the economy and sort of splaying a new a
new, a new foundation that it can that it can grow from and really
put us in UH a position to be competitive, you know, to maintain
our UH domination UH on the world global economic stage. But I think that
there's the two big problems are UH, the you know, the divided country.
And it's not just that we're divide over politics. We just we have
different views of the truth. You know, we say that all the time.
Don't really positive appreciate how how damning that is. But the I I
in my job at the circus, they spend a lot of time at Trump
rallies and talking to Trump supporters, and they you know a lot of them,
you know, they believe they're doing the right thing. They believe President
Trump tells them. They think he won the election. They think that the
country is truly under siege. And uh, they're just not open to hearing
anything about Biden and what Biden has done. And so where as you used
to be able to win over some measure sure of Republicans by arguing facts,
there's just different view of facts. And then the second thing I think that's
holding President Biden back, and this may change, is that even though the
economic numbers are good, you know, wages arising, inflation is going down,
there's you know, very low unemployment, lots of job growth. Interest
rates are you know at you know, the high as they've been in twenty
years, and costs are still high. The average family, Mark Zandy's economist,
I saw presentation by him recently and he said that the average family of
four has their expenses are eight hundred dollars a month higher than they were when
Trump was president. That is a you know, that is a very big
deal. That is a very big deal. People always think with their pockets
or pocketbooks whatever the case, it's always been the case. You know what
was favoring says the economy stupid. You know, that was a very a
very salient point, Jen before we take a break, and I want to
talk a little bit about the president's trip to Israel and what's going on there
and things of that nature. But before that, you mentioned the divide seems
to be widening and with people who just won't listen to reason or fact,
they're just so and to a degree on both sides. But that's not also
true if you haven't real it's not really because if you have real facts that
are truthful facts, they are what they are, whether people want to listen
to them or not. But how did we get there where there is a
significant sixty million people are more voted for Trump based on many laws that they
chose to believe. How did we get here? I think two factors.
One is we did not do a good job dealing with the impact of globalization
and wage inequality and the growing disparity with wealth. So for the last thirty
years, people have been losing jobs and industries that are going away in America.
Haven't done a good job of replacing them, haven't done a good job
dealing with you know, at the richer getting richer, the poorer getting poorer,
and Congress has not been as a you know noted before the last twenty
years has been really ineffectual, and so people, I mean, there are
notable exceptions to that. For example, passing Obamacare Affordable Care Act, it's
you know, done enormous good in helping people save mone also helping people just
have access to healthcare. But you look at the education system, you look,
you look at people who've lost you know, you look at these pockets
of poverty in the United States that continue to grow as well. So I
think there's a lot of disillusionment and people were ripe to uh tune into somebody
like Trump that wanted to blow everything up. You know, I talked to
a lot of Trump supporters, and a lot of them will say the same
thing. He says what I think, or we just need to blow it
up. He's right about that, And then I think the other you know,
the sort of like catastrophic collision, is that's happening at a time where
you have the internet, like we're we used Frank, I mean, you
were at CBS for a long time, like there used to be gates that
you had to go through in order for your views to be heard on a
massive scale. And that is just that is gone. And I don't think
that we appreciate how big of a deal that is. You know, people
go back you know after you know, after the printing of the Bible,
like and you know, and and and you know what that set off in
the UH and in the globe when you had television and radio and then you
had like the rise of uh you know, mass media. You had the
rise of Hitlery, the rise of fascism, riots of communism, these these
communication math the ability to communicate in a mass level sets off big changes in
the world. And so I think it's both of those things happening at the
same time. Well, you see old it must be true. I saw
it on the internet. Yeah, I mean it's I mean, internet is
bigger than television or radio. But you know, you know, it's just
so it is, you know, And so then there's no truth because there's
no agreed upon set of anything there used to be. Chen Let's let's take
a little bit of a break here. When we come back, I want
to talk a little bit about Israel and the Middle East and the President's trip
there and what that meant and how that was organized. Also, want to
get your thoughts. One of the presidents, lawyer Sidney Powell, was found
was actually pled guilty today. I want to get your thoughts on that,
and also what's ahead with co hosting the circus, what's planned for the next
season. So we've got a lot to talk about. I'm so glad that
you're here. This has been so fascinating. You're watching being Frank. I'm
your host, Frank Lebono. Remember the only way to be is Frank.
My very special guest is Jennifer Palmiery. We're back with much more right after
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We think it's the intelligent thing to do, and we're sure having some intelligent
conversation with my very special guest, Jennifer Palmieri genuine teased a little before the
commercial break. The President was just in Israel following the horrific attacks by Hamas,
which virtually entire world has condemned. But he must walk an incredible tightrope
between the support of Israel and their right to exist and their right to defend
themselves, but yet at the same time deal with the retaliation that Israel must
do, at least on some level to protect themselves. So in other words,
it's a real balancing act. And to travel to Israel in a battle
zone that must have sent the White House into an incredible amount of prenetic activity
to tell us what that might be like. So the amazing I mean it.
I was shocked that they announced that he was going to Israel, because
we do. When I work for both President Clinton and President Obama, and
you know this, Frank from working for CBS, we would do what we
would call dark and night trips, and that's that's when you would go to
Afghanistan or Iraq. So in my experience and working for President Obama and President
Clinton, we bring the press with us, but we're in a small pool
of press on Air Force one. We take them into a room in the
White House and tell them you are going on this trip. You're not to
tell anyone. They don't tell their editors, they don't tell their family members
were what's happening. They just disappear. There's no public notice, and then
we wake up to the news. You know, President Obama arrived in Afghanistan
overnight, or or more recently, President Biden arrived in you know, we
woke up with the President Biden is in Kiev active war zone. And so
I mean, given how dangerous the region is in general, but after what
happened that the fact that why a Tony Blinken, the Secretary of State,
walked out of a meeting in the region and said President Biden has come in
Israel on Wednesday, on Monday night, you know, so that means that
there's thirty six hours to get a trip together, but also thirty six hours
that the people who wish you ill are aware of the President United States is
coming to coming to a war zone. So you know, I guess the
time was in their favor and that the people who want to cause trouble don't
have a lot of time to prepare, but you don't have the element of
surprise, and they had to quickly put this trip together. So it was
scary in terms of just his safety. You know. Fortunately, you know,
it worked out, It all works out fine. But then just incredibly
high stakes and very tricky political balance, and and you know what happens just
as the President is leaving to get on Air Force one to fly over there,
Uh, there's the horrible bombing of the hospital in Gaza, and the
you know, he's supposed to be with the UH. He's supposed to meet
with Preme Miister and net Yahoo and then do an Arab summit in Jordan,
and the Arab leaders pull out, and so now he is the balance is
gone, right, He's walking on Air Force one and all it's all it's
all tilted towards backing Israel. And that is a very scary proposition as you're
you know, getting present United States on this plane to go do this.
I think they did a remarkable job, you know, going to Israel.
And you know, he said, he kept saying, The President kept saying.
A number one message is you are not alone. Israel is not alone,
like the United States will always back you. But because he went and
showed his space there and stood with Israel, he was also able to say
eight to Prime Minister net Yahoo, you know, the concerns about limiting impact
to civilians and protecting Palestinian civilians, making the point to the world that Palestinians
and Hamas are not the same thing. You know, they're there are the
Palestinian civilians are caught in this crossfire from what the terrorists you control, you
know who who who control their region, are are putting them in this situation,
and so I think that they did a remarkable job from you know what
what they said on the ground to the israelis what that gave him the room
to say about protecting Palestinians. The humility with which President Biden said, you
know, we had our nine to eleven and learned from our mistakes about how
you know, we may have over corrected in our in our in our response
and be smart about this. And then on after the after the trip,
on the way home, went to the back of the plane on Air Force
one to talk to the press something the press really appreciates, something that the
president almost never does, and said, if if you know, after being
so supportive of Israel and continuing to be supportive of Israel, also saying if
there are unacceptable Palestinian casualties of civilians, we're going to hold Israel accountable and
so and then came back landed it in DC and said we're going to do
an He's going to do an Oval Office address on Thursday night, which is
the Kupda grad The ultimate thing, the ultimate tool and your toolkit as president
of communicating to the American public is the Oval Office address. And that's what
are going to do tonight, can now communicate to the American people what is
at stake and what our interests are here. So I mean that is talk
about high stakes. When the rug gets pulled out from under you as you're
leaving, I think they handled it really well. A relative question, Let's
talk about the leadership role that the United States plays in the in the world.
Uh, there are those who feel we shouldn't take care of our own
first, et cetera, and would limit the role that we play in the
world. None agrees with that. What are your thoughts, Jed? How
important is it for us to or or not to play a major role in
world politics. I am a big believer in engagement, you know, they
I think you can want. Biden has managed to do thus far, and
you know, we don't need this. What's happening in the Middle East right
now is very you know, volatile and carry situation. But he's managed to
restore American leadership in the world. You know, I'm thinking of Ukraine and
and rallying NATO, which after the Trump years was maybe there's a question about
that alliance was going to survive, that alliance was even relevant anymore? Are
you know, in the post Cold War world. And I believe that,
you know, holding native together in that in that way sort of re established
US as a global leader. And then you know, President Biden has dove
headfirst into the current conflict, you know, in a way that maybe he
didn't maybe you know, other presidents haven't in recent decades. I felt that
American leadership was really called for. I think that like, why does it
matter the world? You know, it's it's a very global world. What
happens in other parts of the world affects us. It certainly affects us economically,
it's certainly terrorism certainly affects us personally. And the US, you know,
Madame all Bright would also calls the indispensable nation. And when there's really
you know, there's the other. You know, there's no Soviet Union,
there is China, but there's no one else. There is a vacuum of
leadership on the world stage to try to, you know, keep just keep
a lid on things. And so while there can be isolation as tendencies in
the US, our geography certainly allows for that in some ways. It just
does you know, in the global world, it you know, you you
you were not safe from you you can You cannot insulate yourselves from these challenges,
and so I think that it is really important. And while you know
this, this still be a difficult time coming for the manings. A lot
of people say it's going to go before it gets better. You just got
to take it day by day. And that's far. The US has really
played an important role here and keeping things from descending. It could have in
the first week descended into uh, you know how the war expand hasn't happened
yet. Now it's really switched here. So I want to get your thoughts.
We found out one of President Trump's lawyers, Sidney Powell, pled guilty
in the Georgia election case. What what are some of your feelings on that
situation? So not an expert, but my friends who are you know,
you know she she made a deal, and so that this is not the
first time that's happened. There's going to be uh, you know, he
has there's a trial that starts, you know, that starts next week that
he's going to be involved in. When you look at the political calendar next
year, Ryan, there's Egen Carroll case happens, it meets again in January
and then the day before super Tuesday is when the election case, you know,
another the elections case, I think it starts. So he's going to
be you know, he's facing people are turning on him, and you know,
we could very well be facing by the time we get to the election,
the Republican presidential candidate for presidented States having been convicted. It's just it's
like kind of hard to wrap your head around what that's gonna just be like.
But it's just extraordinary. Yeah, yeah, extraordinary. Jim befre we
have a little bit of time left. I want to know what's next for
you with the circus. You work with MSNBC and all. You'll be at
the White House tonight. That's why, so please that you took yeah to
join us. You're a busy lady. Let's next, don't Jennifer Palmieri's cadis
Oh my god. So the circus is back. So we uh, this
is our We've been back for two weeks. We have four more weeks.
We do sort of like you know, we blocked uh uh break it down
into different blocks because it's very it's very intense when you do it. And
so we're on Sunday night at seven o'clock on Showtime Arizgon at seven thirty,
also ten and ten thirty for the again for the West Coast, and this
week we are looking at you know, we started the week saying, you
know, looking to see how the how President Biden was dealing with the Israeli
crisis and look to see how that was impacting his political fortunes standing overall.
And uh, you know, there's you know, that was our theory at
the end of the week. And then of course the week got more dramatic,
both in Washington with the Republicans and then overseas as well. So that's
what we're so we have We're on for four more weeks and then on MSNBC.
By the way, I have a new podcast and I'm doing with Clara
mccaskell. Oh cool. It's called Yeah, it's very cool. It's called
How to Win twenty twenty four. And so each week we focus on,
you know, kind of look at the political current political situation, say okay,
now, how you know, look, we look very specifically at the
electoral implications of of of what is happening. So we'll run every Thursday between
now and the twenty twenty four election. Well, you're amazing you know you
should uh for complete transparency. Your your husband, Jim and I are h
plus your friends. We're childhood friends and we're looking to slow down. We
talk about it all the time, and you just keep going faster and fast.
That is not true for either one of you. You never you never
cease to amaze me, Jennifer, honestly, and again, I want to
thank you for your intelligent conversation here on being Frank. Really a pleasure and
I know how busy you are, so it means a lot. Always a
pleasure, All pleasure, Frank And of course we arefer special thanks to our
listeners who take time to give us a voice in their lives. Remember we
offer a fresh topic every week. Catch us wherever and whenever you get your
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Being Frank with others. Of course, I've got a couple of little nuggets
left for you. This one is from Ben Franklin, and I think it's
very appropriate, appropriate considering what's going on in the world. There never was
a good war or a bad piece. We have some music for you too,
from a good friend Babner Sissy and he's just has just very clever songs.
You'll appreciate if you listen and listen to the lyrics. This one is
called live aids, not live aid Live aids. It's interesting. I think
you'll find it as such. So for our engineer Neil Richter, I'm your
host, Frank Levuono. We hope to have you join us for the next
being. Frank, We're the only way to be is Frank. Thanks for
listening. Pleasure Realli flair of the nineties needs of America to the really badlic
of wits and stands, supplings of people, people taking the seafo I've got
damn people can see food, they hung the stops can't damn school from that
was why God God that wings well, said mister cape In markeularns the box
and rather bad VOCALI radity for mask, super fucking Albush, super fucking audience,
so fucking abbish, so fucking obvious, working all so fucking albis.
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