WEBVTT

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The carry roll ratio with a GAF
wedge is fifty to fifty. With a

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six iron, it's twenty percent carry, eighty percent rollout. With an eight

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iron, it's one third carry,
two thirds roll. With a sand wedge

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it's two third carry, one third
roll, and with a loud wedge it's

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eighty percent carry twenty percent rollout.
See in my shipping system. Classical chipping

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you only have those five clubs.
Again, that's if it's a level green.

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Obviously, if you play on medium
sized greens, which is ninety nine

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percent golf courses are medium sized greens, classical chipping will be the most commonly

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used short game shot. All right, This is Jinny Harris from Gay to

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Oklahoma and I played the shatted golf
course. This is golf Smarter nine short

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game tricks and tips you can use
and myths to avoid with our old friend

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Jim Waldron. This is Golf Smarter
sharing stories, tips and insights from great

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golf mindes to help you lower your
score and raise your golf IQ. There's

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your host, Fred Green. Welcome
back to the Golf Smarter podcast. Jim.

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Great to be here, Fred.
I think this is episode thirty or

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thirty one for me something like that, seventy or seventy five, I don't

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know. Yeah, great to have
you back. You know, I've been

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going Everybody the listening audience is aware
that I've been going through stuff with my

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arm. But it's about to end. I think I'm ready to start playing

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again. And I yesterday was the
first day I took full swings and it

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was my back that was a little
sore, but my arm was okay.

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And so I'm going to try to
play eighteen tomorrow. I go to physical

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therapy today. See but where you
know, of course, what I've been

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doing in my head for the last
four months is don't beat yourself up.

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Don't get caught up in the fact
that you're rusty and stuff. You know

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what you have to do, you
know how to do it. Just go

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out there and you know, take
it easy and be easy on yourself and

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let it you know. Club up. That's good advice. Club up.

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Take it easy, swing easy.
Yeah, yeah for sure. But what

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else? But what else? Coach? What do I need? How do

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I how do I get bats this? You need a better working which is

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the topic of today. But in
terms of the health, I mean,

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I'm actually a pretty good person asked
that because I struggle off and on in

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my golf career with low back and
hip issues. But I think in general,

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I do as I say, not
as I do. I've I've always

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tended to come back to early and
re injure it. Really, as my

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wife will tell you, I'm stubborn. So I'll just you know, physical

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therapists will say give it three months
and then and then slowly come back into

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it. And I'll give it six
weeks and come back to it, and

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so yeah, don't do that.
Give it time to for sure. Yeah,

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this is I'm going on four months
now, so since the last time

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I played golf, so I you
know, I took the Luckily, we've

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had a lot of rain here in
northern California, so I haven't missed much,

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and I've been traveling a bunch.
But I've also like tried to take

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the mindset of my friends in the
you know, the Midwest and the northern

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Midwest and going like, hey,
i don't get to play for five or

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six months because of bad weather.
So I'm trying to like, you know,

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they do this every year, and
I'm whining about it that I have

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to do one time, I have
to wait for a couple of moren Yeah.

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Yeah, I mean, you know, Florida, California, Texas,

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Arizona, we get to play all
year long. Mexico, Mexico exactly,

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Hawaii. Yeah. But I'm like, I'm ready to thaw out here from

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my winter. Cool. Cool.
So let's talk about like where do I

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start? You know, like short
game is That's the one thing I started

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practicing a week ago in my yard. I've been putting and just doing some

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short game stuff. I feel if
i'm i'm you know, if I'm tuned

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in on that, I should be
okay. Yeah, I think that's a

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good way to look at it.
Plus, you know, you could argue

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that the short game, and there
are a lot of good teachers, we

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start with putting. They teach putting
first, then they teach chipping and pitching.

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So there's a kind of a developmental
aspect because it's, you know,

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the idea being the shorter the swing, the slower the tempo of the swing,

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the less moving parts, the easier
it is to learn to some level

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master. So, m it makes
sense. But I think the short game

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is an under taught or poorly taught
aspect of our sport. There's lots of

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myths I think in traditional teaching about
the short game. The big one is

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that a short game swing, particularly
like a like a like a less than

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full backswing, so like a three
quarterback swing or half a backswing, or

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a one quarter length backswing like in
a traditional shipping stroke, is just a

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micro version of your power swing.
That's the big myth. It's just not

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true. There's more differences than there
are commonalities between any short game swing that's

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within about sixty yards of the pin
or less. There's fundamental differences that I

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spend a lot of time in my
coaching practice pointing out to my students.

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So, for example, the tempo's
completely different. If you define one way

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to confine tempo is the rpm speed
that your upper body pivots significantly slower.

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It's going to be twenty five to
thirty percent slower rpm speed than your pow

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that much. Yeah, and I
see people come to see me with terrible

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short games. I get a lot
of people with short game yips, and

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they're rotating their chest on a little
chip shot that's only going to travel maybe

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you know, ten yards in the
air with like a gap wedge and they're

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rotating their chest the same speed they
would rotate on a driver, which is

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crazy, right, But you should
be rotating your No, you should be

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rotating your chest twenty five to thirty
percent slower our PM speed. You still

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should be rotating. Well, shouldn't
be like it's not all arms. Well,

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god, no, it's definitely not
all arms. In fact, that's

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a That's another myth is that it's
because it's a shorter shot you should use

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the spoke called levers, and the
levers and the golf swing are two upper

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arms where they connect to our shoulder
sockets, our trail, elbow folding and

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unfolding, and of course our wrist
cocking and uncocking. And the reality is,

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at least the way I understand the
short game and the way I teach

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it is it's more pivot driven in
the short game, with a few exceptions

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than even your power swing. Now, as you hit the ball more with

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your body turning through the through the
shot on a little short shot than you

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do on a longer shot. Really, yeah, the speed is, the

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speed is obviously less, like we
talked about a second ago. Yeah,

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you're going to turn through at a
lower rate of speed. But The contribution

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was the relative contribution of the lever
system versus the pivot system. There's less

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lever action on most short game shots
and more of action compared to your power

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spling. It's just the opposite of
what most amateurs think. Hmm, I'm

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blown away. Keep going. Well, you know Roberto, you know you

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know who Di Vincenzo is who lost
the Masters in sixty eight because he signed

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the incorrect squarecard you got from Argentina. Roberto DBA guy. Yeah. He

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famously said he was referring to all
his golf shots short game and longer.

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But I bring this up for a
reason. He said, when I play

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my best golf, I hit the
ball of my stomach. So he was

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identifying with the rotation of the mid
section of his body, a so called

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core right. And when you're doing
your best short game shots. It's not

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that there's no contribution. Well,
there is on classical chipping. There should

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be no risk action on classical chipping. We can go more in depth on

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that in a minute. But on
every shot other than classical chipping, there's

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always going to be some degree of
lever action, primarily how you use your

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wrist. But it's still mostly your
body most if you wanted to quantify the

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motion, mostly a pivot motion.
Whereas when I work with people who come

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to seeing you either with chipping yips
or short game yips, or just they

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don't have yips, but they have
really bad short games, it's like they're

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they're trying not to turn their body
hardly at all, and they're just sort

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of throwing their arms at it,
throwing their wrists at it, and they

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can't make solid contact. And you
know, the whole thing about the short

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game is you've got to be able
to control, which is what the ball

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does three things with consistency, which
are the carry distance meaning hitting your landing

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spot, the trajectory, and there's
four trajectories there's low, medium, high,

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and super high, super high being
a flop shot. And then the

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spin, the amount of backspin which
are low, medium, and high spin.

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And the backspin along with the trajectory, determine how much roll out there

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is after the ball lands right.
So to do those three things consistently well,

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you have to be able to make
solid contact. And almost everybody who

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comes to see me with short game
issues, they're not making solid contact.

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Now they may they have distance control, issues that they think are sort of

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standalone flaws, but they're really The
distance control issue is because they're not making

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consistent contact. Meaning on one hip
shot they'll hit a spin, it'll have

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not it'll have too much overspin,
it'll roll like twenty feet by the hole,

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and with the same club on the
next chip shot, they'll hit it

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fat, they'll hit it heavy,
and they'll be way short of the hole.

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Right. So what I teach is
on the short game, you've got

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to be able to control to have
solidness of contact, you've got to be

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able to control the angle of attack, which is the angle that the club

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head comes in from up from skyward
forward ground level when it hits the ball.

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So that could be either a shallow
angle like on a flop shot,

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or a steep angle like on a
low spinning web shot right, and generally

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speaking most short game shots, you
want your angle attack to be somewhere in

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between those two extremes, not steep
and not shallow. On a medium you

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have to be able to control where
the club bottoms out, which is called

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the low point. And since there
are many many different types of short game

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shots, they all have different low
points, so you have to know,

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where should my low point be on
this type of a shot versus another type

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of shot and be able to reproduce
it. And I have when I work

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with a new student who has short
game issues, they can't make the club

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bottom out where I want them to
bottom out on all sings, well,

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just even on power swings. Yeah, but it's almost always significantly worse.

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People who have poor low point control
in their power swing ten times worse than

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their short game. Oh yeah.
And the third issue is you have to

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have the proper amount of forward chaffeling. Now that could be as little as

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none on a traditional flop shot where
the club chefts is ninety degrees to the

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ground at the moment of impact,
or you could have like you know,

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like a low spinning wedge hitting like
a gap wedge or a pitching wedge.

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I actually had a lesson on how
to do this from Lee Trevino twenty years

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ago down in Palm Springs. Wow, where he has you know, he's

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got his hands on this low spinning
wedshot. He showed me his he's got

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like ten twelve inches of forward chafflin
in saying them out right, Yeah,

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so where the shaftling is. That's
a big part of it. I want

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to go more into that. I
want to take a break right now,

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but I want to come back and
talk about the shaftling because of what I've

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observed so many amateurs doing. And
we'll be back right after this. Jimmy,

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you know, when I watch a
lot of people that I play with,

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you know, we're mid handicap,
maybe some of us are high single,

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but still mid handicappers. There's a
lot of scooping going on. It's

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you see, you see them trying
to chip the ball or pitch the ball,

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and they're they're trying to get under
it and lift it up correct.

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Right, So in short game here
is it really Back to their conversation,

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that's one reason why people don't hit
the ball solidly because they're actually have they're

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presenting the club face to the back
of the ball with reverse shaffling, which

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is deaf in golf. You could
hit it either really thin and skull it

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over the green, or you could
hit it really fat doing that. Yeah,

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there's actually some videos going around right
now, Jim Venettos and even Mickelson

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where they're talking about the shaffleing and
the amateurs. You know, lean the

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shaft back to behind them, and
you know, it's like and pros don't

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and lay they have that forward shaft
lien and keeping the face of the club

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and the edge of the club square
to the target. You know, it's

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interesting. There are often universal throughout
the different skill categories flaws, but there

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is one, and that is scooping
in the short game. I've worked with

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multiple tour pros who came to me
with short game hips. These are guys

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who have plenty of shaftling. When
they're hitting an eye off the fairway,

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like with a six iron, they'll
have like, you know, eight inches

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of shaffling, six inches of shaffling
something like that, and then a little

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delicate little chip shot. They have
reverse shaffling and impact. They're scooping it.

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I mean, really good ball strikers
are scooping. And of course say

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with a high handicapper that they scoop
everything. So it's much more prevalent in

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the short game that is in the
power game. The scooping impulse interesting,

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especially if someone has I've never and
I've worked with hundreds of people in the

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last decade or so who have severe
short game yips. I've never had a

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single one who did that scooping impulse. In fact, there's a funny story

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about this. I'll tell you about
two summers ago in Portland, I had

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a guy who came to see me
for three days with really bad He was

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about a twelve handicap, really bad
short game yips, and we identified right

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away, you know you're scooping.
You got to stop scooping. You have

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to hit down on the ball to
some degree, you know, coming in

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at a somewhat moderately steep angled attack
with you know, some amount of schaffling.

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He understood all intellectually, couldn't do
it, and he had two ways

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he was doing it. He was
flipping his right wrist sideways like this right

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and for the audio listeners, I'm
showing how the club bad can past your

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hands by unhinging the angle in the
back of the right wrist. And he

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was pulling his left elbow in.
So both of those are common ways you

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can add loft to the club face. So you again trying to add off

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to scooping. So we fixed it. Took me about three hours to fix

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both of those flaws. And I'm
thinking, oh, he's done right now,

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he's gonna start hitting the ball.
Really solid. All of a sudden,

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he starts tilting his right shoulder down
too much. He wasn't doing that

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before. He's still trying to scoop, still trying to scoop. Of course,

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his unconscious mind says, proper proper
behavior of the club just before,

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during, and after impact is for
the club had to go from low to

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high as it's striking the ball.
It's supposed to go from high to low

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to some degree. Right. But
because he had that image in his unconscious

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mind, swing map, that's what
his body was doing. So it took

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me about another hour to fix the
excess of tilting his spine to the right.

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Thinking, now, now I think
we're done, right. Then he

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starts standing up. He starts popping
up out of his spining. He wasn't

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doing that before either. It was
like putting on a balloon. You push

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it one part in the balloon,
and then you know, the forest goes

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elsewhere, sort of like that.
It took till the end of the day

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to all the different wings he kept
trying to scoop. He finally had nothing

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left it. Finally he starts,
yeah, but that's a that's a perfect

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example what almost everybody I see who
has any type of issue. Yips are

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not in the short game. We
have to get we have to address the

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scooping impulse early on. Yeah.
Yeah, Now, when you talk about

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the controlling the spin, can you
do that on all type of terrain,

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all turf or is it really mainly
on the fairly on good lies? Yeah?

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I mean if you can't. If
you're in the rough, you can't

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control anything because you're not going to
get any spin because the grass gets caught

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between the back of the ball and
the club face. And then when that

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happens, when the two surfaces contact
each other, the grass gets compressed and

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grass juice comes out. It makes
a film, and that film reduces the

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spin dramatically. Right, Okay,
So what that means is that when the

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ball lands, you're going to get
more release on it. The ball is

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going to roll. So then don't
be aiming at the hole, correct,

235
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right? You want if you're coming
out of the rough, off the rough,

236
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yeah for sure. Okay, But
when you're on the short grass and

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you're inside of what fifty fifty sixty
yards somewhere there? Yeah, Okay,

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you want the ball, you want
to try to get the ball to get

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well, I mean, getting the
amount of backspin that we watch on TV

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is just you know, forget it. You ain't gonna We're not going to

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do that for sure. You don't
want too much. That's also a problem.

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Most short shots you want medium spin. There are some shots where you

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want no spin. There is classical
chip shots who should be no spin.

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By the way, there's gonna be
a little spin anytime, even on a

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putt, there's a little tiny spin
that happens. But by the time the

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ball lands, you want to backspin
to have stopped. So when you get

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a classical chip, you don't want
back spin. It should land and roll

248
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out like a putt. Right,
But except step for classical chipping, every

249
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other shorting shot, except for classical
chipping, you're going to have either low

250
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spin, medium spin, or high
spin. Like on a cut lob.

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You know what a cut lob shot, which is a type of a flap

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shot. Well, the cut lob
is where you take your lob wedge and

253
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you do you basically take the club
a little outside with the hand path and

254
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clubbed path, and then cut across
it kind of like over the top like

255
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this, oh yeah, on purpose, and you pull your thing that we're

256
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trying not to do well. You
do it on the shot. It's a

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specialty shot right again, you do
it. You got to learn and do

258
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it the right amount. You can
obviously do it too much. But it's

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00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.799
a slight out to end clubbed path, which it's facilitated by bending your left

260
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elbow a little bit just before impact. You pull your left elbow a little

261
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bit and you roll the face open, so now you're coming in steep.

262
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Anytime your path is out to end, you're going to have a steeper angle

263
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attack. The steeper the angled attack, the more the more the edges of

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the grooves on your wedge bite into
the cover of the ball and creates spin.

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And when you rotate the face open, when the club face angle itself,

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you know the club face itself is
rotating from square to open. That

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also creates more spin. Right and
the fact that you're cutting across the ball

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from out in path also creates more
spin. So you're doing three things to

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create spin. So when I demonstrate
that shot from my students, it doesn't

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go as high as a standard slop
shot. What, for Exampleevy, you

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would call this parachute shop, which
is like straight up in the air and

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it just that's actually a low spin
shot, but it just lands because it's

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so it goes straight up, but
its out comes into the ground of the

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ninety degree angle. Yeah, spin
just stops right. But on the cuplob

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you're putting maximum spin, it'll actually
land and then take take one bounce to

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the right, you're right head of
golfer, and then and then trickle out

277
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and have hardly any rollout. It's
got so much and it's a cool looking

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00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:12.759
shot. Yeah, And it's the
work I'm always You have to have the

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traditional flop shot. The ball has
to be sitting up a little bit on

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a toft of brass, right,
because you're coming here with almost traditional flop

281
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shot. You want like zero shaffling, and you want to be like straight

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up and down, which means you
have to come in very shallow, which

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means the ball has to be sitting
up a little bit. It can't be

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sitting down on the tight line.
It's a very goot to do off the

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tight line. But the cut loob, you're coming in steeper and you're hitting

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down on the ball. And so
that's that's the only shot that will work.

287
00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:45.359
That's the only super high trajectory shot
that will work, uh in a

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00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:48.920
typical round of golf where the ball's
not sitting up a little bit. So

289
00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:52.000
it's a good shot to learn the
cut level. Yeah. Yeah, and

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00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.039
it'd be a good thing to know, Like I know that I've had the

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00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:57.000
results. It's like, oh wow, look at that. The ball hit

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00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.119
right here and stop right next to
the you know, the divot. It's

293
00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.319
like an inchoay, how did I
do that? I wish I knew how

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00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.559
I did that? And then I
watched and I you know, it's so

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00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.839
bad to watch golf on TV because
you're not learning things. You're just figuring

296
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.119
out what you don't know how to
do, and then you don't even practice

297
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:18.359
it. But like when these guys, like they have all seven, they

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00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:22.519
rarely have seventy five yards to the
pin because they're either two hundred yards out

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00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.599
or they're on the green. Sometimes
there's seventy five yards from the pin on

300
00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:32.720
a shorter part four. Yeah,
right exactly now they are we had a

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00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:36.960
forty yards yeah, yeah. But
what they do is like let's just say

302
00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.000
they're at seventy five yards and they're
like, okay, the pin is at

303
00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:44.680
seventy five yards I got to hit
it seventy nine yards because it's going to

304
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:48.720
spin back. Yeah, those four
yards, and it's like that just is

305
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.519
amazing to me that that happens.
It's interesting that because generally speaking, they

306
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.359
don't like that shot. Sometimes they'll
do that shot really on the option that

307
00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:03.519
they have, but generally they're trying
not to put too much spin from that

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00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.480
distance. From about sixty five seventy
yards to about one hundred and twenty yards

309
00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:12.039
a category of short game called distance
wedges. Have you heard that term distance

310
00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:17.519
wedges? No, the turn that
Dave Pel's came up with about thirty five

311
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:19.319
years ago and pretty much everybody today
uses it. But when you're in that

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00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:23.720
sort of sixty five seventy do whatever
your full gap wedge is. So for

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00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.559
me, that's one hundred yards.
For a long it might be one hundred

314
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:32.039
and twenty. There's a particular type
of shot in there, and it's you

315
00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:36.440
want basically, you want a medium
spin type of shot. You don't want

316
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:40.519
to suck it back unless you absolutely
have to. Yeah, And what is

317
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:44.519
that wait? When you say you
absolutely have to, what are the conditions

318
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:48.640
that you face that you're going I
absolutely have to spin it bit. It

319
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:51.519
could be that because of it,
it could be like water in front of

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00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:55.920
the green, or some other type
of hazard beat in the back of the

321
00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:57.720
green where like like tall grass or
something. In other words, it might

322
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:03.599
be a situation where the only shot
that you feel that you could stick it

323
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.720
close would be a shot with high
spin. But in general, a tour

324
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:08.960
pro is not trying to hit that
shot. They talk about it a lot

325
00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:14.519
on TV because it looks cool,
but top players don't like to have that

326
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:17.799
much spin. They can't control the
carry distance as well when there's that much

327
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:22.680
backspin, and often it spins back
too much right. So what they're generally

328
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:26.720
doing on a distance wedge they're trying
to take spin off, and the way

329
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.480
they take spin off is they don't
complete their backswing. They don't do quite

330
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:34.039
full turn on their backswing. So
a normal backswing is says one hundred degrees

331
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:40.359
of shoulder turn right, they'll do
ninety degrees of shoulder turn okay right.

332
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.920
And they'll also there's something called the
kinematic sequence of you know what kinematic sequence

333
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.720
means? Keep talking. Kinematic sequence
is the technical term for how you transfer

334
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:53.920
energy from one body part to the
next and eventually down into the clubbed during

335
00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:59.559
the downswing, during the forward swing, and the typical kinematic sequence is on

336
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:03.880
a power swing shot is your lower
body starts first than your mid body,

337
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.599
than your upper body, than your
arms, than your wrists, than the

338
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:10.759
clubhead, So there's a transfer of
energy, sort of like when a whipmaster

339
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:15.279
cracks a bull whip, there's a
transfer of energy. There's much less transfer

340
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:18.400
of energy on a distance wedge,
which is why it flies at a lower

341
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.839
trajectory and has less spin, so
the ball doesn't stay on the face quite

342
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:27.000
as it stays on the face for
a shorter interval of time than on a

343
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:30.839
power the same guy with the same
club well even with a power swing,

344
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:34.960
whereas it the ball will compress against
the face more on a power swing and

345
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:41.160
therefore have more spin. So some
people call the distance wedge that shot like

346
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:45.000
the Pels years ago called it a
finesse swing, and the way he tried

347
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:48.559
to get people to learn it was
you want to feel like the rpm speed

348
00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:55.079
of your hips and your core and
your chest are all moving at the same

349
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:57.000
speed both on the backswing and the
forward wing, which is kind of one

350
00:23:57.079 --> 00:24:00.839
way you can do it. Where's
a normal swing. Your hips fire first,

351
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:06.720
then they decelerate in the power swing
and the core fires. Then it

352
00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:10.480
decelerates a little bit, and then
the energy from the hips transfers to the

353
00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:14.240
core. When the core slows down, it transfers to your upper torso,

354
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:17.440
your chest, your shoulder girdle,
and it slows down as the wrists are

355
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:21.160
uncocking. So again it's that whip
cracking thing. So it's about taking some

356
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:25.640
of the whip cracking element away so
it feels like a well again, it

357
00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:27.599
feels more like a finesse swing.
Some people call it a more armsy like

358
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:33.960
Tiger calls it more armsy swing.
You know, it's a softer type of

359
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:36.759
it's a softer version of your full
swing. Is one way you can think

360
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:40.759
of it. Yeah, awesome.
And then if it applies more on shots

361
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:44.359
within sixty five yards of the whole
where I want my students to feel like

362
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:49.759
the rpm speed of their chest on
the forward swing and their hands, slash

363
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:53.400
arms and the clubhead are the same. Now the clubbed will always be moving

364
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:59.400
a little faster in RPM speed unless
you're doing classical chipping where there's no rist

365
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:03.240
action. Classical chip shot, which
is a good example. There's no risk

366
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:07.079
action. So in a classical chip
shot, the clubhead and your hands and

367
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.759
your chests are all moving into same
rpm speed just before, during, and

368
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:15.039
after impact, whereas hardly any amateers
know this, and so they're trying to

369
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:18.960
make the clubbed move faster than their
hand, which again is in other ways

370
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.240
you could describe as scooping, or
they're trying to make their hands move faster

371
00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:26.200
than their body, which they disconnect, their arms come off their chest,

372
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.519
their chest slows down or stalls,
they have an armsy release. Yeah,

373
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:34.799
amazing, All right, another time
out. We'll be back right after this.

374
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:45.079
I love talking about the short game
with you. It's something we really

375
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:49.079
don't spend enough time on, but
I think it's so important because there's so

376
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:52.720
many, like you said, myths
about the short game that we need to

377
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:57.039
figure out and get past. But
I want to go back to you talked

378
00:25:57.079 --> 00:26:03.200
about distance control, trajectory control,
spin control. We talked a lot about

379
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:04.880
the spin. Let's talk about the
other parts of that as well, the

380
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:10.799
distance and trajectory control. Yeah.
Yeah, Well again, except for a

381
00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:15.440
classical chip where there's no riskcock except
for that one shot, every other shot,

382
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:18.079
since there's some degree of riskcock and
not only be a quarter of a

383
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:22.279
risk cock. So what I teach
is that there's several different types of riskcock.

384
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:26.880
You've got zero on a classical chip, so no risk action. You've

385
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.000
got a quarter riskcock, which is
a tiny amount obviously, and I will

386
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:33.359
call it chip hyphen pitch, also
called modern shipping. Modern shipping which is

387
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:37.680
what you see in the younger players
mostly today, is where they fly the

388
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:41.799
ball about eighty percent of the way
to the hole when they're chipping, and

389
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:47.079
it trickles out to the other twenty
percent, whereas classical chipping they might fly

390
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:48.839
it only halfway to the hole or
less or a third of the way to

391
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:53.799
the hole, and then it'll roll
out two thirds. What I call modern

392
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:59.319
shipping chip hyphen pitching because it it
has a pitching aspect which is there is

393
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:03.880
some risk. Therefore there's some riskcock
release on the forwards wing. So a

394
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:07.279
quarter riskcock would be the second type. Then there's a half a riskcock,

395
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:11.440
right and which pitches would work,
and then there's a full riskcock on longer

396
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:15.839
pitches. Okay, well I'm going
to stop you here because you keep saying

397
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.319
riskcock and you're doing stuff with your
hands. I can't see your hands,

398
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.119
nor can the audience. So define
what you what you mean by riskcock?

399
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.559
Are we talking? Please explain?
Sure? Sure? So from from setup,

400
00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:33.799
from address position, if you simply
moved your wrists straight up toward the

401
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.079
sky, so the club because your
wrists are hinging or cocking straight up.

402
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:44.400
Yeah, okay, that's called cocking
and golf instruction versus flexing versus some people

403
00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:47.720
call flexing. I prefer the old
school term hinging. When you go back

404
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:52.000
with your risk, that's called hinging, okay, and power swing, you

405
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:56.599
hinge back until your lead risk bows
or flattens a little bit while you cock

406
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:00.240
up. So it's a combination of
hinging and cocking in your in your normal

407
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:04.359
power swing. In the short game, there are some shots where you'll only

408
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:10.519
hinge and then hold the hinge angle
without cocking, which is one way to

409
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:15.440
do classical chipping. There are short
game shots where you'll do a little bit

410
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:18.160
of hinge and a little bit of
cocking, like I said, like a

411
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.880
chip pitch, like a quarter,
or you could add more cocking. So

412
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:26.880
there's always some degree of hinging in
any short game shot, right, But

413
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.319
you could have either no riskcock,
quarter riskcock, half a riskcock, full

414
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:33.519
riskcock, and the riskcock. The
more the more riskcock you add on the

415
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:38.559
backswing, the higher the ball goes
in trajectory, the further it goes and

416
00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:45.680
carry distance, and the more spin
it has. Quarter riskcock will fly much

417
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:48.920
lower than a full riskcock. It
won't go nearly as far in the air,

418
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.599
right, and it'll have way,
it'll have you know, much less

419
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:56.839
spin than a full risk cock.
Yeah, and we're talking on the on

420
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:02.160
the pitching and chipping side. We're
not talking full swing or we are well

421
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:07.000
again, we're talking well in terms
of what I just said about the zero.

422
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.839
What we're talking mainly short game and
your power swing. You're always going

423
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:15.839
to do a stock movement with your
wrist, which is cocking fully full range

424
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:21.240
of motion, full cock, along
with hinging back enough to flat or slightly

425
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:23.279
bow your lead risk. There's some
advantage. I think that most teachers would

426
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:29.000
agree to have a slightly bowed lead
lead risk right. Intend to get It's

427
00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:33.119
been a very it's been very challenging
for me to get that bow because I

428
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:38.079
always had a tendency on my lead
risk too top. Yeah, hinge you

429
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.599
back cup it back and I've worked
very hard on that over the years,

430
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:47.119
and I've always seen the difference.
It's just, you know, something that

431
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:51.319
I had that problem when I was
taking piano lessons as a little kid.

432
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:52.680
They were like, lift your risks, lift your wrists. And then when

433
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.119
I was taking typing class, we
actually had typing class in school. When

434
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:03.720
I went there and she didn't,
I failed, and again I was like,

435
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:07.680
had these little I had to say, limp risks, but I was,

436
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.440
you know, hinging back, and
so I noticed I've done that,

437
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:14.839
you know, and everything I've done
so it's been very hard for me to

438
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:19.640
get that motion correct. Yeah,
but it pays off, you know.

439
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:23.640
Along with scooping what we see in
terms of flaws, we see a lot

440
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:30.039
of overuse of the risks. So
a lot of people they're also scooping generally

441
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.240
along with this, but they just
don't know how to use the risk properly

442
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:34.559
in the short game. They don't
know about what I just said about.

443
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.920
You could have zero one quarter risk
cock, half a risk cock. But

444
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:41.200
it's not that hard to learn how
to do it. I mean, most

445
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:45.480
of my students can learn to do
it in a couple hours. They can

446
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:47.960
alter on command, they can do
a half a risk coock, they can

447
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:49.759
do a quarter, they can do
it full, they can do none and

448
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:55.319
it. Once you've mastered those four
risks setting angles, it makes a huge

449
00:30:55.359 --> 00:31:00.680
difference on the quality of your short
getting shots. It really doesn't incredible.

450
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:07.240
Yeah, okay, So now is
that we were talking about trajectory and we

451
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:14.759
did spend control. Now distance control, that's a critically important, critically important

452
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:17.440
Well, let me tell you how
I teach you. The first thing I

453
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.039
tell people, Look, distance control. You're wasting your time trying to learn

454
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:26.519
it if you're not making solid contact
and then not only center face contact between

455
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:30.480
you know, the club face and
the back of the ball, but also

456
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:36.359
having such good control over your angle
attack and your low point and your shaffling

457
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:41.440
that the interaction between the soul of
the club and the turf is also an

458
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.000
important part of the short game,
right. You need to know how how

459
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:49.759
the club had interacts with the ground
just before in most cases, or just

460
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:53.400
after impact, or while while the
club, base and ball are touching each

461
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.200
other. How does that bottom of
the club, the bounce of the club

462
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:00.680
especially interact with the turf. That's
a big part of it. But once

463
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:04.559
you can correct because if you don't
make so if you if you send you

464
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.000
hit the first wedge, the first
pitch shot a little thin, it's going

465
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:10.400
to travel too far, it's going
to carry too far, and it's going

466
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:14.160
to roll out too far too doesn't
have enough spin. And if you hit

467
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:15.880
the next one heavy, it's going
to travel way short. It's going to

468
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:19.920
carry short of your landing spot.
So you've got to be able to make

469
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.480
solid contact first. But once you
do that, the way I teach distance

470
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:28.400
controls and one of the miss is
that you should change your tempo. And

471
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.440
I hear people say I don't want
to have a system because I'm a field

472
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:34.920
player, And my response is every
good player is a field player. The

473
00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:38.400
story we tell ourselves can be had
a conversation with Felder about this years ago.

474
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:43.799
You can tell yourself that you're an
analytical player, someone like Bryson de

475
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:49.319
Shambo right. The story he says
to explain his success is analytical, scientific,

476
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:53.440
technical, versus someone who's more intuitive, like a Sevy biosterops. They'll

477
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:58.880
talk about fields all day long,
but the reality is everybody who's good plays

478
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:02.559
from the field. But that doesn't
mean you can't have a system. Which

479
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:07.519
is mainly centered around how big a
backswing you make right. And when I

480
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:12.400
work with someone who tells me that
they're decent at distance control, particularly within

481
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.359
the distance wedges from that, like
sixty five to one hundred and twenty yard

482
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:22.839
range, they're usually terrible at it. That's been my experience. And the

483
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:27.680
guys, guys who actually have a
system based on length of backswing are good.

484
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:35.119
Yeah. So in my pitching system, there's two lengths of backswing right

485
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.680
which are using you know how the
clockface analogy works. For a right handed

486
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:43.440
player, the left arm is the
clockface, the clock the hour hand.

487
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.960
So you go seven point thirty would
be a short pitch right, and that

488
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:51.359
when you move your left arm to
seven thirty in the clock face, you're

489
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:53.079
doing it with your pivot. You're
not doing it with your arm muscles going

490
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:57.799
on. You're not moving your arm
sideways across your chest. It's a way

491
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:02.640
of measuring how big a pivot.
Seven thirty with the left arm is about

492
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:09.800
a forty five degree rotation of your
torso roughly right. And then there's nine

493
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:14.960
o'clock, also called a three quarterback
swing. That's about a seventy five degree

494
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:20.280
rotation of your torso. Yeah,
So in my pitching system, you have

495
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:22.960
to learn how to do a seven
to thirty backswing, and you have to

496
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:27.320
learn how to do a nine o'clock
backswing. And there's three baseline distances.

497
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:30.639
There's a short distance pitch from seven
to thirty with a half a risk cock,

498
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:35.519
there's a medium distance pitch from nine
o'clock with half a risk coock,

499
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:38.679
and there's a long distance pitch which
is nine o'clock with a full risk coock.

500
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:42.840
So, for example, with my
lob wedge, which is sixty degrees

501
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:47.719
lost, my full long distance longer
pitch, which again is nine o'clock full

502
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:52.119
riskcock, flies exactly fifty yards.
Basically, it goes almost straight up in

503
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:55.719
the air, traveled fifty yards.
My media, which is nine o'clock with

504
00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:00.800
half a riskcock flies twelve yards less
it flies thirty eight yards, and my

505
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:06.880
seven thirty with half risk gott flies
twenty five yards. So I've got three

506
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:12.400
baseline distances with that club and with
my fifty five degree sandwich. Right.

507
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.840
Practice, Yeah, and so important
to practice this information. Don't believe this

508
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:21.960
BS that you can you can get
a good short game in terms of distance

509
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:25.559
controlled by just going by field.
It's it's it's just not true. You

510
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:29.719
have to have a way of regulating
it, a consistent way, and it's

511
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.880
it's two things. It's length of
it's length of backswing meaning length of pivot,

512
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:37.119
and how much risk copy use.
Those two things are what create the

513
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.320
carry distance. What you don't do
is you change. You never change the

514
00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:45.480
rhythm and you never change the tempo. Those have to be a constant to

515
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:52.360
be consistent. That makes sense,
so that the rhythm is the relationship.

516
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:54.440
There's there's more than one way to
define rhythm, but the way I most

517
00:35:54.480 --> 00:36:00.679
commonly do it for short game students
is the relationship in terms of the rpm

518
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:06.559
speed of your chest rotating on the
back swing versus the forward swing, and

519
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:09.079
that relationship should be two to one, meaning we call it five to ten

520
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:16.039
rhythms. So if your backswing with
five RPMs chest rotation on a chip or

521
00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:22.800
a pitch, your forward swing speed
should be ten twice as much five to

522
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:27.159
ten. Whereas typically when someone has
poor short game techntic, even when their

523
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:30.760
risks action is better and their length
the backswing is pretty much where we want

524
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:37.360
it, they can still hit a
chip or a pitch. Poor distances because

525
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:39.800
the rhythm might be five point fifteen
and they'll hit it too far on the

526
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:43.880
first shot, and the next shot
it'll be five to seven, which is

527
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:46.519
a dso on the little too short. So you have to have that,

528
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:51.239
you have to practice through repetition.
You have to master that five to ten

529
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:55.760
rhythm. Yeah, and the tempo
basically means the length of time of your

530
00:36:55.840 --> 00:37:01.159
back swing and your forward swing in
the short game, especially within sixty five

531
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:06.119
yards, should be identical. In
that length of time is going to be

532
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:10.320
about roughly three quarters of a second, so three quarters of a second backswing,

533
00:37:10.519 --> 00:37:14.599
three quarters of a second forward.
So it's very common for people to

534
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:19.599
over accelerate their pivot because they don't
understand what I'm talking about in terms of

535
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:22.480
rhythm and tempo, and so they
if they over accelerate their pivot, they'll

536
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:27.920
they'll do five to fifteen rhythm and
they'll hit the ball too far right,

537
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:30.960
and the next shot they'll they'll decel, they'll they'll stall their pivot and they'll

538
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:35.599
do five to seven rhythm and they'll
hit the ball too short. So having

539
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:38.360
a consistent tempo, which again the
tempo itself in terms of the overall RPM

540
00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:44.760
speed is going to be about twenty
five to thirty percent slower than your power

541
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:47.519
swing. So it takes a little
bit of practice to learn how to make

542
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:52.960
your chest rotate on a consistent basis
around twenty five thirty percent slower. Awesome,

543
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:57.760
awesome, All right, one more
time out. We'll go back right

544
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:06.920
after this. This is one of
those episodes, Jim, and it probably

545
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.239
happens on your episodes more than most, well because you're on more than most.

546
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:14.960
But you got to listen to it
multiple times because there's so much to

547
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:16.159
absorb, and it's like, wait, I got to take notes on this

548
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:21.400
now, and I think now.
The Apple podcasts they put transcripts up.

549
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:24.559
Yeah, yeah, there's a transcript
going. So you don't want to be

550
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:28.840
watching your phone while you're listening to
the podcast. But the transcripts are there.

551
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:32.679
But when you said you know that
you ask students is like, how's

552
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:35.639
your doing? Oh, I'm pretty
good in my short game? Right.

553
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:40.519
It frustrates me to no end when
I'm playing with guys who are you know,

554
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:45.760
within fifty sixty yards and they get
all excited because they're on the green,

555
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:47.800
and it's like no, no,
no, no, no no.

556
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.280
When you're there you're you're supposed to
be able to put the ball in a

557
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:57.159
place where you can one putt.
Right, it's turning three shots into two.

558
00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:00.320
That's where you're scoring. Is So
if you're on the green, it's

559
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:05.519
you know, okay, way celebrate, except the pin is on the complete

560
00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:07.400
opposite side of the green of where
you are. Just because you're on the

561
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:12.400
green doesn't mean it. So just
you know, it's not about getting there

562
00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:15.239
and then two putting it thinking you've
had success. Yeah, you'll know your

563
00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:21.400
shortcam for the rest of your life
if that's your short shortcating goals after what

564
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:25.119
you think is a decent shortcam cut. So well, my recommendation sort of

565
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:30.079
my guidelines for this issue if somewhat
depends on your skill level. But let's

566
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:36.760
say you're about a five handicap or
better, right, yeah, yeah,

567
00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:39.960
if you're doing a chip shot within
say twenty yards of the hole or less

568
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:44.880
and not I'm talking about decent lie
chip shot, not not in the rough,

569
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:46.719
not super tight, but you know, come a deep average line,

570
00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:50.480
you've got to be chipping it within
three feet of the hole. Lets you

571
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:54.039
be your goal three feet right when
you're in that sort of twenty to like

572
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:59.400
fifty yard range, you want to
be within five feet of the hole.

573
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:02.559
Wow, a little bit longer that
because bunker shots are a little harder to

574
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:07.480
control distance, maybe more like six
or seven feet from a greenside bunker.

575
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.840
And when you get in that sort
of like you know, sixty to ninety

576
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:14.039
yard range, you want to be
like in you know, eight or nine

577
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:19.519
feet from the hole because your odds
of your odds of making a putt if

578
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:23.960
you're if you're outside six feet are
a little less than fifty percent. Right,

579
00:40:24.280 --> 00:40:28.679
you're outside six feet, and that's
if you're pretty decent at short putting.

580
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:30.400
So you really have to think of
it like that. I got to

581
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:34.000
hit this thing pretty close to get
up and down. I can't. I

582
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:37.760
can't be expecting the one putt from
twelve to fifteen feet. I think.

583
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:40.800
I think the average make percentage from
fifteen feet in the PGA Tour is around

584
00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:46.039
sixteen to seventeen percent something like that. Now it's that high, yeah,

585
00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:49.519
I mean that low. That low. I'm sorry, I'm meant to say

586
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:52.880
that, like I thought, like
I thought ten foot putts are like fifty

587
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:55.199
percent on the tour. It's actually
I think I think on the tour right

588
00:40:55.239 --> 00:40:59.320
now, the fifty percent markus six
and a half or seven feet something like

589
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:04.800
that. Wow, and why do
we beat ourselves up? We can do

590
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.400
a whole other podcast just on putting. That's one of the big things we

591
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:12.880
see in putting. People have amateurs
have insanely unrealistic expectations. Yea, because

592
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.800
when the typical amateur golfer is watching
a PGA Tour event, he sees these

593
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:20.239
guys that are on the leaderboard making
everything they look at pretty much on the

594
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:25.320
putting green, right, So it
creates the illusion that that is sort of

595
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:30.360
normal for them to be making ten
footers or fifteen footers, whereas the actual

596
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:35.840
average is much less than that,
right. Yeah, So people get this

597
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:38.599
idea that they're supposed to make every
time they have a six seven eight foot

598
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:40.920
pot, that they're supposed to make
it. They don't even realize for an

599
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:45.800
amateur golfer, that's not it's more
likely than not you're going to miss that

600
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:52.599
putt, even if you're good at
putting. Yeah for sure. Yeah,

601
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:57.760
are you all caught up on this
lie angle balance the lab putters? It's

602
00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:02.119
an Oregon thing. But yeah,
I probably need to educate myself more about

603
00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:05.280
but I've been hearing more about it
just in the last month or so.

604
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.679
Yeah, well, you know,
because Lucas Adam Scott does it, and

605
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:13.239
will Zola Taurus came back from his
injury. He's got the lab putter.

606
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:17.000
But what Lucas Glover did last year
after having severe yips and then coming back,

607
00:42:19.159 --> 00:42:22.679
and their whole thing is is you're
just they say, untorque yourself because

608
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:25.960
with with face balance and heel balanced
putters, you're you know, there's a

609
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:30.440
lot of torque that you have to
do when you're putting, and these just

610
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:34.480
wherever your point in your putter,
it's going to go in that direction and

611
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:38.280
you just fai doesn't rotate relative to
the path. It stays neutral to the

612
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:42.599
path. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, Oh, you should definitely

613
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.760
get in touch with Sam. He's
he's in Oregon. He's right where you

614
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.159
are, so Portland, do you
think, No, he's not in Portland,

615
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:52.679
he's near you. He's outside of
Eugene. Oh outside Eugene, Okay,

616
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.239
yeah, yeah, yeah, he's
a great guy. Great yeah.

617
00:42:55.800 --> 00:43:05.039
Yeah. So so let's let's talk
about one of the parts about about chipping

618
00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:09.360
that there's a lot of dispute or
you know, approaches to it and that

619
00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:15.400
is just off the green. Yeah, you know, and it's not necessarily

620
00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:19.559
just off the green where you can
putt from just off the green that you've

621
00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:22.719
got maybe you've got some rough or
you've got you know, something a little

622
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:30.320
ditch or something. One of the
things that Tony Manzoni instructed me to do

623
00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:36.639
years ago was take my eight iron, use it like a putter with the

624
00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:39.920
toe toe down, heel up on
it and get it close to my feet

625
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:44.360
and just do a putting motion.
And that that has worked very well for

626
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:47.320
me in the past. Yeah,
that traditionally is people call that a put

627
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:52.719
chip. It's also called the Paul
Runyon put chip method because Runyon back in

628
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:54.800
the nineteen thirties kind of came up
with it. Because if you're hitting it

629
00:43:54.840 --> 00:44:00.239
a little hit it a little toward
the toe, there's less likely good that

630
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:01.840
you'll hit it fat because the heels
up in the air a little bit.

631
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:05.559
It won't work if it's a bad
lie. The ball has to be a

632
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:08.079
pretty decent lie for that to work. But yeah, and if you're just

633
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:12.599
off the green, that can definitely
work using literally using a putting stroke.

634
00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:16.440
So I consider that one of the
one of the essential, not the essential,

635
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:20.519
but one of one of the little
bit more advanced type of a shot

636
00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:24.960
that you can call a specialty short
game shot, the put chip. Yeah,

637
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:30.239
we're seeing today as a resurgence,
thankfully, finally, because I've been

638
00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:37.159
a big preacher on the I've been
a big advocate for traditional or classical or

639
00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:42.559
Scottish chipping also called chip and run
shot, which kind of fell out of

640
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:45.159
favor or starting about twenty years ago. In fact, you won't see it

641
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:51.440
that often on the PGA tour wells
as until about a year ago. Now

642
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.880
we're starting to see some of the
younger players do it. Jordan Spieth will

643
00:44:54.920 --> 00:45:00.280
do it whenever he can. Justin
Thomas will do Scottish chipping whenever he can.

644
00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:07.280
I saw who was it the other
day, Actually it was Xela Taurus

645
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:12.280
doing it. They were talking about
it. Where you have a little what

646
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:15.559
looks scott Is shipping is it looks
almost like a putting setup your except your

647
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:21.199
feet are very close together. You
have about twenty percent more weight on your

648
00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:23.679
front foot, so you're you're kind
of leaning forward a little bit, and

649
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:28.400
you have about four inches of shaffling
that's set up and you want to maintain

650
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:30.760
that four inches of shaffling, you
don't. You don't change it throughout the

651
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:36.159
stroke. Forward shaftling, Yeah,
forward chaffling and risks arched up a little

652
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.599
bit, so the handles about an
inch an inch or two higher than neutral.

653
00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:45.199
When you raise the handle, that
automatically shallows your angle attack. So

654
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:50.599
it's less likely that the leading edge
will dig. The traditional critique of Scottish

655
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:52.800
chipping, which how it fell out
of favor about twenty years ago, is

656
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:58.679
that the leading edge will dig,
particularly in tight lives. So and very

657
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:01.400
tight lives, particularly if the ground
wet, the leading edge would dig and

658
00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:05.880
you would leave the ball be way
short of the hole because you'd be hitting

659
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:08.920
it fat. But I think some
of that was because I think at the

660
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:14.559
time where it Scottish shipping got the
bad rep that it got, it was

661
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:17.079
because people were teaching it wrong people. I don't want them to name names,

662
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:22.960
but there were some famous teachers who
were teaching ball way way back in

663
00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:28.440
the stands, in line with your
right heel or even further back than that.

664
00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:31.159
And when you have the ball position
that far back in your stands,

665
00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:34.559
of course the leading edge is going
to dig. Because you're coming in too

666
00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:37.360
steep. The angle attacks too steep. Right, Whereas the way I was

667
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:39.480
taught to do as a kid is
you put the ball in the middle of

668
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:43.960
your stands. Your stands, your
feet are about six inches apart, balls

669
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:46.880
in the middle, twenty percent weight
on your front foot, four inches of

670
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:52.920
shaffling, and simply maintain the four
inches of schaffeling right along with the slightly

671
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:55.440
arched list which had been raising the
handle. So now you're coming in in

672
00:46:55.519 --> 00:46:59.760
a five to a ten degree angle
attack instead of more than ten degrees,

673
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:05.000
and the leading edge doesn't dig right. So we're finally seeing this. In

674
00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:07.199
the last year, more and more
of the younger pros I realized that that's

675
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:14.079
actually an easier shot to do under
pressure. And when you use that shot,

676
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:16.239
what's up? Where do you use
that shot? How do you it's

677
00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:21.360
the you know the instance of that
you need it? Would you would do

678
00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:25.360
it for any type of chipping situation
where you have some green to work with,

679
00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:30.639
Right, we'll say, you know
ten feet or more of green to

680
00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:35.800
work with, and the lies DC
it doesn't work out of the rough right,

681
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:39.519
it has to be a normal fair
away lie, but would be within

682
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:47.800
typically when you're about anywhere from about
ten yards away from the pin up to

683
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:52.960
about thirty five yards away from the
pin. In that range, okay,

684
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:55.719
and involved again, depending which club
you use. In my system, there's

685
00:47:55.719 --> 00:47:59.800
several different clubs. You use a
six iron, eight iron, gap,

686
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:04.760
sand wedge, lobwards only those five
clubs. So look with the gap wedge,

687
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:06.840
which is the one you're going to
use the most. If it's a

688
00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:10.199
level green, no wind, and
the green's running sort of average speed maybe

689
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:16.119
ten on the stimpmeter, the gap
wedge will fly like mine flies fifteen yards

690
00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:22.840
in the air from a classic from
classical chipping backswing at seven to fifteen on

691
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:25.199
the clock face with my left arm, it'll fly exactly fifteen yards in the

692
00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:30.159
air and will roll out fifteen yards. So the carry roll ratio with a

693
00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:34.119
gap wedge is fifty to fifty.
With a six iron, it's twenty percent

694
00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:38.000
carry eighty percent rollout. With an
eight iron it's one third carry, two

695
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:43.320
thirds roll. With a sand wedge
it's two third carry, one third roll,

696
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:46.840
and with a lob wedge it's eighty
percent carry twenty percent rollout. Again,

697
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:50.840
that's if it's a level green,
obviously, so you only in my

698
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:54.679
shipping system, classical chipping you only
have those five clubs, and that turns

699
00:48:54.719 --> 00:49:00.719
out once you're once you've mastered that
technique, if you're playing a normal greens,

700
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:06.119
not ginormous you know, Jack Nicholas
Pete dye greens where you might have

701
00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:09.800
you know, one or more big
swales between you and the pin, in

702
00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:13.719
which case, now you've got to
figure out how much how much break the

703
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:16.960
chip's going to have after it starts
the roll, it's better just to pitch

704
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:22.639
it airmail it. They're right doing
a classical chip. So if they're not

705
00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:25.760
big greens or not really small greens, like my home course here in Enterprise

706
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:31.440
is probably smallest greens of any golf
course in the country. They're insanely small

707
00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:37.039
and they're like inverted saucers. Oh
wow, it's hard to do classical chipping

708
00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:42.159
because there's hardly any there's not enough
greens you could be blowing it by if

709
00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:45.920
you play on medium sized greens,
which is ninety nine percent golf courses are

710
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:51.039
medium sized greens. Is it turns
out classical chipping will be the most commonly

711
00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:55.079
used short game shot for sure.
So to me, I consider it the

712
00:49:55.159 --> 00:50:01.159
foundation of the short game technique,
classical chipping. Well, time to go,

713
00:50:02.199 --> 00:50:07.079
But again I want to thank you
and just let you know if you're

714
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:09.639
new to golf Smarter, then you've
got to just go back in our archives,

715
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:15.639
because Jim's been here since almost the
beginning early two thousands, and we

716
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:24.079
get together regularly, including episode four
hundred where we had what Chinese food together?

717
00:50:25.639 --> 00:50:30.920
Thai food? Right, we went
for Thai food in Oregon. That

718
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:35.199
was it? Eight hundreds where I
got to interview you, right, that's

719
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:37.360
right, eight hundred you interviewed me. That's right. Oh my gosh,

720
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:43.320
Jimmy, thank you so much.
Balancepoint goolf dot com. Right, correct,

721
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:46.400
that's the best way to reach me. It's always it's always a lesson

722
00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:51.239
in an education when we get together, and I truly appreciate your friendship.

723
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:57.960
Man. Thanks man. Likewise,
so I need to clarify a comment I

724
00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:01.519
made early in the interview about my
ten elbow recovery. Yes, I did

725
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:06.559
play two and a half weeks ago, and you probably heard that I had

726
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:12.159
my PXG driver fitting a couple of
days after that, but since then,

727
00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:15.360
no golf. I did go to
the driving range to test out my new

728
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:21.840
driver and honestly, going up against
my trusted Callaway ex hot, the PXG

729
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:27.639
black Ops driver was longer and straighter
every swing, but the pain in my

730
00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:30.960
arm persists. I'm going back to
physical therapy tomorrow and I have asked my

731
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:36.880
doctor about doing something more aggressive,
but I have yet to hear back from

732
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:42.039
her. I say that because I
am absolutely determined to get some rounds in

733
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:45.480
this spring, because I need to
be one hundred percent ready for our golf

734
00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:51.119
Smarter Royal adventure to Northern Ireland.
I really want to play golf and hang

735
00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:53.639
out with you for a week.
You know, I've never played there before

736
00:51:53.840 --> 00:52:00.239
and this is a total bucket list
opportunity for me. Hopefully it is for

737
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:04.960
you too, but even if you've
already played there before, please join me

738
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:09.400
this July for five rounds that includes
the number one course in the world,

739
00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:15.559
Royal County Downs, the host of
the twenty twenty five Open Championship, Royal

740
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:19.880
Port Rush, and what a rush
that would be to be able to watch

741
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:22.519
it and say, yeah, I
played there last year. Also one of

742
00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:27.760
the most beautiful courses you'll ever see
at Ardglass, and we'll even play a

743
00:52:27.880 --> 00:52:32.360
parkland course with the oldest clubhouse in
the world, Royal Belfast. I've partnered

744
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:37.840
up with TMI Golf and we only
have room for two foursomes, but the

745
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:43.400
clock is ticking. You can get
all the information at tmigolf dot com,

746
00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:47.960
slash golf Smarter, or at golfsmarter
dot com to hear our featured conversation about

747
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:52.920
the trip that was released just a
few minutes after episode ninety with Tara Fox

748
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:59.360
last week. This Friday is part
three of our annual series with the late

749
00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:02.920
Tony Man, and since Tony passed
away in twenty eighteen, we've been playing

750
00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:08.519
select episodes each year to get back
into playing shape for spring. What's different

751
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:14.679
this year is that we're playing every
episode in order that we did with Tony

752
00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:20.800
between twenty ten and his final appearance
in June of twenty seventeen. The huge

753
00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:25.880
difference is Golf Smarter Mulligan's is no
longer a separate podcast. Now it's included

754
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:31.159
in your free Golf Smarter subscription and
is released every Friday, so Golf Smarter

755
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:37.079
is really twice a week. Tuesdays
are the brand new episodes, and then

756
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:42.559
we dig into our archives each Friday. This week's episode is just after Tony

757
00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:47.159
released his book with Paul Servante's The
Lost Fundamental, One Simple Move, Better

758
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:52.199
Golf Forever. And even if you've
heard any of these before, there's always

759
00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:58.159
a golden nugget tucked away that reminds
you of one more effective insight to bring

760
00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:01.840
to your game. If you're one
of our Golf Smarter Ambassadors that is opened

761
00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:07.360
an episode, make sure you read
my personal invitation email that I sent you

762
00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:12.159
about our royal adventure. It may
have gotten into your spam or junk filter

763
00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:16.360
because the email came from fred S
Green, not Golf Smarter Podcast, but

764
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:21.719
I do want to thank our newest
Golf Smarter Ambassador, Denny Harris of Gaye,

765
00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:25.559
Oklahoma. Denny chose to receive a
free link to Tony Manzoni's video of

766
00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:30.360
The Lost Fundamental just for telling us
where he's from, where he plays,

767
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:34.519
and what episode number this is.
If you'd like to choose one of three

768
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:37.679
great gifts, right directly to me
and I'll send you simple instructions on how

769
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:42.800
to record. Check out today's show
notes to find links about each gift that

770
00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:46.159
you have to choose from, and
remember that links to our sponsors and their

771
00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:52.239
special offers are also in today's show
notes and our blog posts. Please check

772
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:55.280
them out as a way to say
thank you for keeping Golf Smarter Podcast coming

773
00:54:55.360 --> 00:55:00.400
week after week. And if you
have any questions, comments, or suggestions

774
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:05.920
for upcoming episodes, or need more
information and want to discuss our royal adventure,

775
00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:09.599
please write to golf Smarter Podcast at
gmail dot com or click on the

776
00:55:09.679 --> 00:55:14.039
Heyfred button when you visit golfsmarter dot
com.