1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,600 Hi, This is Gene Thornton from Nutley, New Jersey, and I play 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:08,359 at Hendricksfield Golf Course. This is Golf Smarter number nine hundred and fifty. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:16,440 Playing from the rough takes two stories. Both actually have contrasting parameters to them. 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,039 One is the story of my life starting in abject poverty, moving into 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:28,320 a world of successful businessman globe triding around the world filled with more privileged than 6 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,759 poverty. There's a parallel story that's told of me playing the top hundred golf 7 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:38,079 courses. I use that story also to show the contrast in the world of 8 00:00:38,119 --> 00:00:43,119 golf, which for so long was like a standard bearer for segregation. So 9 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,520 you have this black guy who grew up in poverty that's going to all of 10 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:52,439 the most exclusive golf courses in the country, places where people who look like 11 00:00:52,520 --> 00:01:03,560 me were prohibited from going. The compelling journey to play America's top one hundred 12 00:01:03,599 --> 00:01:11,640 courses in one year with author Jimmy James. This is Golf Smarter, sharing 13 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:15,400 stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your score 14 00:01:15,519 --> 00:01:21,879 and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome to 15 00:01:21,879 --> 00:01:25,840 the Golf Smarter podcast. Jimmy. Hello, Fred, happy to be here. 16 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:27,560 I'm great. How are you today? Doing well? How are you? 17 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,959 I'm doing well too. I'm so excited to talk to you because your 18 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,400 book it comes to me and last week we talked to somebody about, you 19 00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:42,120 know, creating your own bucket list, and then this week I have this 20 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:51,319 book where you exceeded bucket lists goals. Right. I mean the quote alone 21 00:01:52,239 --> 00:01:57,280 from Rick Riley on your book is so perfect. He says, I'm so 22 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,519 damn jealous of Jimmy James. I only pulled off my dream golf adventure, 23 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,879 but he wrote a book so good. I haven't spoken my laptop in a 24 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:14,919 week. I love that because he's prolific at the very least he is. 25 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,599 He writes a lot of really good books, has a great sense of humor. 26 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:23,120 I even quote him in my book and Playing from the Rough when I'm 27 00:02:23,159 --> 00:02:29,240 playing at Augusta on the twelfth hole and he talks about all of the green 28 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,280 jackets that have been lost on the twelfth hole. More green jackets have been 29 00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:38,159 lost on the twelfth hole than at the Augusta dry cleaners. But he has 30 00:02:38,199 --> 00:02:44,680 a way of really getting to the heart of the matter. Yeah, he 31 00:02:44,759 --> 00:02:50,000 really does, but you did too. This book goes in so many directions, 32 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,599 as far as you writing a memoir about your life, but also a 33 00:02:54,639 --> 00:03:02,439 memoir about your golf adventure. Give me a summary, Give that person who's 34 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,479 listening, give them a summary of your book, and then we'll go from 35 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:12,960 that, all right. Well, Playing from the Rough takes two stories that 36 00:03:13,319 --> 00:03:20,360 both actually have contrasting parameters to them. One is the story of my life 37 00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:30,919 starting in abject poverty and moving into a world of much much different successful businessman 38 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:38,759 globe triding around the world, more born into a life of poverty, entered 39 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:46,840 into a world of filled with more privileged than poverty. There's a parallel story 40 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:52,000 that's told of me playing the top hundred golf courses, and I use that 41 00:03:52,439 --> 00:03:58,400 story also to show the contrast in the world of golf, which for so 42 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,639 long was like a and a bearer for segregation. So you have this black 43 00:04:03,639 --> 00:04:10,199 guy who grew up in poverty that's going to all of the most exclusive golf 44 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:15,159 courses in the country, places where people who looked like me at one time 45 00:04:15,879 --> 00:04:23,199 were prohibited from going and so a contract were prohibited from from being from playing, 46 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,839 but not from being an employee, not from working here. But so 47 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:36,959 it's the it's it's really two stories braided together with common themes of progress made 48 00:04:38,519 --> 00:04:45,759 but in need for even more progress to be made exactly exactly, and the 49 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:51,920 stories are both compelling just as standalone stories. They're both compelling. And as 50 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:57,199 you mentioned, you played Augusta That, so your goal was to play This 51 00:04:57,399 --> 00:05:01,920 was post retirement from a various successful business career, and we'll get into the 52 00:05:01,959 --> 00:05:09,319 details of that later. But you set a goal for yourself to play the 53 00:05:09,439 --> 00:05:15,120 top one hundred courses in the United States in one year, not just play 54 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,879 them, but to do it in one year, which is quite a bodacious 55 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:26,560 goal to set for yourself, and you do it by starting at Augusta National, 56 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:32,120 probably the hardest of all the courses to get onto. What is so 57 00:05:32,199 --> 00:05:39,000 that in itself sounds a little insane, probably probably because it was insane, 58 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:44,800 making it even more insane, is that my goal was to get on the 59 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:53,160 all of these courses without ever asking, by just talking about what I was 60 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:59,639 doing and seeing through kindness and generosity and interest and if I'm able to stir 61 00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:03,199 with it and others that it is a desire to help me achieve a goal 62 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:12,720 that I've set for myself, and so that makes it even more ridiculous that 63 00:06:14,759 --> 00:06:17,319 I thought I could do something like that. But for the most part, 64 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,560 seventy five percent of the people who hosted me or helped me during the journey 65 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:27,360 I did not know when I started the journey. Wow, wow, So 66 00:06:27,399 --> 00:06:31,120 how did you get to the first one? You weren't invited as far as 67 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:38,720 Augusta's let's establish how you got onto Augusta. Then started the journey of having 68 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,639 people invite you. Yeah, so when I actually when I played Augusta, 69 00:06:43,959 --> 00:06:47,839 and I'll tell the story of how I got on too, Augusta. Augusta 70 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:54,879 was a present, a gift for my wife. Both of us have careers, 71 00:06:54,959 --> 00:07:02,680 dynamic careers, and we traveled a lot in those careers and we moved 72 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:08,959 a lot, sometimes driven by my career, sometimes driven by her career. 73 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:15,800 She was a professor and then senior associate dean at the Darton School at the 74 00:07:15,879 --> 00:07:19,079 University of Virginia, and I was with ex On Mobile. We were headquartered 75 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:24,759 in Fairfax, Virginia at the time, and then the opportunity to become dean 76 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:30,600 at the Groizwetta School at Business School Embra University came along for her and to 77 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:36,240 show appreciation her appreciation for my support in her making that move into that job. 78 00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:41,199 She was determined to get me on to Augusta National. So at a 79 00:07:41,199 --> 00:07:45,839 board meeting with her advisory board, she asked if any of her advisory board 80 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,920 members knew anyone from Augusta that would be willing to invite her husband to come 81 00:07:50,959 --> 00:07:57,319 and play at Augusta National. And Lynn Rodgers, an Atlanta businessman, said 82 00:07:57,319 --> 00:08:01,519 he was friends with Danny Yates and the Yates family in Georgia. They're like 83 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:09,519 royalty such a Charlie as so Danny is Charlie's nephew, so so Charlie's Dan, 84 00:08:09,319 --> 00:08:16,360 Danny's dad Pete. Dan Yates is a cousin. A is a brother 85 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:26,199 too to Charlie Yates and uh to Charlie Yates Senior. So Charlie hs Junior 86 00:08:26,279 --> 00:08:33,919 and Danny are cousins Solis. Charlie Yates Junior is a friend of a friend 87 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:39,919 of mine who I'm hoping next year when I come to Atlanta, will I'll 88 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:43,000 be playing golf with Charlie Yates. So I've played golf with Charlie HS Junior 89 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:50,039 ourselves, and Charlie and I similar circles. Charlie and I served together on 90 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,960 a committee for an event at East Lake, and we also helped support a 91 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:01,960 program that Emery University has for exchange program where students from Emory and Georgia Tech 92 00:09:03,039 --> 00:09:07,519 go over to Saint Andrew's for one year program. And so Charlie and I 93 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,080 know each other through that also. So getting back to what we were talking 94 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,759 about earlier, So that's how I ended up on Augusta. It had nothing 95 00:09:13,759 --> 00:09:16,759 to do with playing the top hundred courses in the world. It was my 96 00:09:16,919 --> 00:09:22,639 wife being determined to give me the opportunity to experience what it would be like 97 00:09:24,279 --> 00:09:31,919 to play golf at Augusta National. I totally understand a determined wife who can 98 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:37,240 break down a lot of walls. Yes, it's a similar situation. Oh, 99 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:43,279 that's a phenomenal story. So let's just review your round at Augusta. 100 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:48,320 How did that go well? And walking on starting with walking on the grounds, 101 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:54,480 not just your golf itself, but what did you go through when you 102 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,559 arrived? You know, it's interesting. So we flew in from Atlanta and 103 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,960 picked up at the Executive Airport and a van driven to Augusta and you drive 104 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:15,080 down Washington Avenue Washington Street, and it does not prepare you for Augusta Nashville. 105 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:22,519 It's this four long stretch of land with Neon signs and strip malls. 106 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:30,279 And then you make a turn and the gates open up, and you're riding 107 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:37,879 down Magnolia Lane with the over arching branches of the magnolia trees, looking straight 108 00:10:37,919 --> 00:10:41,440 ahead at this antebellum club house with a wrap around port, and then it 109 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:48,879 hits you. It hit me. I am your breath away, I am 110 00:10:48,080 --> 00:11:01,720 at Augusta National. It's it's surreal, and so you you you have to 111 00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:07,759 catch yourself. So we played. We played the part three first, and 112 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:13,679 then we had lunch, and then we went to the first tea and I 113 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,960 really don't even remember. My head was so far above the clouds. I 114 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,240 don't even remember how we got from the clubhouse to the first tea. They're 115 00:11:22,279 --> 00:11:28,919 just next to each other, but I really don't remember that walk. And 116 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,480 then I'm really nervous. I don't want to embarrass my host. I don't 117 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,799 want to embarrass myself. And this is a part of where I think back 118 00:11:37,399 --> 00:11:43,639 also to just how did this kid who used to run barefoot down a dirt 119 00:11:43,759 --> 00:11:48,279 road playing baseball with a stick and a doll's head and a bunch of stinky 120 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:54,559 little kids just like me. Get to the first tea of Augusta National Golf 121 00:11:54,600 --> 00:12:00,519 Club, and so that's all going through my mind and I'm there. I'm 122 00:12:00,639 --> 00:12:07,080 just trying to make a swing, and fortunately my ball ends up in the 123 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,200 fairway, left side of the fairway, a little short of Danny's drive. 124 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,240 He teed off first, and then I followed. Then the other two guys 125 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:22,519 teed off, and I really couldn't fill my feet when I'm walking down that 126 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:28,519 fairway thinking about the history and all those Masters champions that had taken that same 127 00:12:30,159 --> 00:12:35,240 walk, the legends, and I'm here, I'm walking down the fairway and 128 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:41,840 so I'm really trying to breathe. And so I thought, well, let 129 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,879 me talk because I do that easily. That's my comfort zone. And so 130 00:12:46,919 --> 00:12:54,600 I talked to my caddy and get the club and I'm like one hundred and 131 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,519 seventy yards out from the pin. In a good shot lands on the green 132 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:05,799 and true to Augusta, it rolls off the green, off the right front 133 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,279 of the green. But I'm still thinking, I'm at Augusta. I'm going 134 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,639 to par that first hole. I'm going to make par on my first hole 135 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:22,320 on the championship course at Augusta National. A chip and three putts later, 136 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:30,559 I'm walking off the green with the double bogie. So I had more putts 137 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:35,440 than swings at Augusta Nashville. The hallows and mounds, the undulation of the 138 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:41,080 greens, which television doesn't do justice to. It's just it's hard to They're 139 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:48,279 hard to navigate. So eventually I collect myself and on Flowering Crab Apple, 140 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,919 which is you know, as you know, all the holes that Augusta have 141 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:56,519 names, and so on that fourth hole, after starting with three double bogies, 142 00:13:58,159 --> 00:14:03,720 I hit a high six iron over the bunker to a front pen position. 143 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,840 The ball plops onto the green and I'm feet away from a birdie. 144 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:13,279 Then I leave it short. But that's how that's my first part Augusta National. 145 00:14:13,879 --> 00:14:20,519 And I calmed down from there and I got bogies and maybe another double 146 00:14:20,879 --> 00:14:28,480 and it's just magical, and you're everything is perfect, and it's this idea 147 00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:33,080 again. I'm coming from a world. I was born into this world that 148 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:39,399 lacked almost everything, and there I am standing in this world that lacks almost 149 00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:46,960 nothing, where every blade of grassousness, every blade of grass, where every 150 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:54,120 blade of grass is in its place, where every need that a person probably 151 00:14:54,440 --> 00:15:03,879 could have when they're there is met. And so it's quite the contrast from 152 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,759 from the world I was born into, in the world I found myself in 153 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:18,200 tracing across these manicured this manicured, neatly manicured law amazing. We're talking to 154 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,919 Jimmy James, whose new book is called Playing from the Rough, a personal 155 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,799 journey through America's one hundred great as golf courses, and we're going to talk 156 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:35,320 more about it right after this. Jimmy, the way you describe your first 157 00:15:35,399 --> 00:15:41,639 impressions at Augusta as you can't remember how you got to the tee, you 158 00:15:41,759 --> 00:15:46,480 were, you were floating, you were, it was so in your head. 159 00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:52,519 Did you journal as soon as you got off the course or how did 160 00:15:52,759 --> 00:15:58,559 how did you remember so many details of so many rounds of golf? Were 161 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:00,879 you journaling through that? And well, I'm not going to ask the second 162 00:16:00,919 --> 00:16:08,159 question all to start with that, So I wrote a blog right after I 163 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:14,360 got home, So while it was still fresh in my mind, I wrote 164 00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:22,519 a blog, and for the first five or so courses, I just remembered 165 00:16:22,519 --> 00:16:26,960 everything, and then we took vacation, came back. We took vacation, 166 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:33,840 went to Ireland for a week family vacation. We came back and I started 167 00:16:33,879 --> 00:16:38,600 again. And by the time I got to about the tenth course, the 168 00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:47,679 details of every single shot in every single hole started to blend together. So 169 00:16:48,039 --> 00:16:57,399 I started then taking notes during each round so that I could make sure I 170 00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:04,640 never courses during when I wrote a blog about it. So I had notes 171 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:11,200 and details on every hole, every shot, what every hole, how I 172 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,880 saw every hole, to the to the engineer, to the engineer's minds detail, 173 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:23,119 and so that that served as a as some hard drive memory for me 174 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,440 and for years, so I could I could meet someone from a different from 175 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:32,720 a particular course and I could tell them each shot I took on their course. 176 00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:38,160 But as more time has passed, then that that starts to fade. 177 00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:42,039 Well, when you played that many rounds, I mean, had you ever 178 00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:45,160 played one hundred rounds in one year before? I played a hundred rounds in 179 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,880 one year, and that year I played about one hundred and seventy five rounds. 180 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,440 So in addition to playing all oh so an addition to playing and on 181 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,839 some of the courses, some of the top one hundred courses I played more 182 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,480 than one round, but across that year, I played about one hundred and 183 00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:07,079 seventy five rounds of golf. You like retirement, although it doesn't feel like 184 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,920 retirement when you're writing a book. No, that's right, No, you're 185 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:18,200 absolutely right. My wife published a memoir last June twenty twenty three, or 186 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,920 her memoir, and I had her on the show episode nine hundred to help 187 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:29,079 promote the book. And so living with somebody as they're writing a memoir takes 188 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,480 years. It is hard work. It takes a lot of mental fortitude and 189 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,480 memory, like jogging your memory, going back finding things, trying to remember 190 00:18:38,519 --> 00:18:44,279 exactly and trying to be accurate as best you can. But here you're all 191 00:18:44,319 --> 00:18:47,240 doing this in a year's time. But then you have your whole life to 192 00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:51,000 talk about it. Yes, and so that's that's one of the One of 193 00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:57,279 the things was while playing that would I would think back, certain things would 194 00:18:57,279 --> 00:19:03,720 spark memories from my life, and I would make a note about that because 195 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,000 it was a part of my experience on that golf course, and I really 196 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:15,240 wanted to capture the experience of what it felt like to be on the golf 197 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:18,400 course, and I did a blog, and I wanted the reader of the 198 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:25,839 blog to feel that they were right there with me on every single swing, 199 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:30,960 and at the end of that blog they could feel that they had experienced that 200 00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:36,640 course vicariously. And so I wanted to be very detailed so that they could 201 00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:41,440 picture in their mind exactly what I was doing and where the setting, all 202 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,400 those things. So that helped a lot when I started writing the book, 203 00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:52,559 because I could refer back to those blogs and be reminded, and it would 204 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:56,640 stir sort of the emotions of the moment, and that brings memories back. 205 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:03,559 So I want to go over like the sequence of events when your wife presented 206 00:20:03,599 --> 00:20:10,279 you with this opportunity to go play as your retirement present, to go play 207 00:20:10,279 --> 00:20:14,960 Augusta. At what point from there did you go, Oh, wait a 208 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,720 minute, I want to now try to get to one hundred courses, the 209 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:23,079 top one hundred courses in the United States. Where did that fit in? 210 00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:30,160 So first she told me about the gift to Augusta. Then later she gave 211 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,680 me a book by this guy John Sabino. So I had decided I was 212 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,799 going to retire, and I was putting together a plan on what I was 213 00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,680 going to do that first year of retirement because I didn't want to flunk retirement. 214 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,000 I'd seen several colleagues flunk retirement. They go back to work. When 215 00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:51,519 you say flunk, do you mean they die or they're just bored out of 216 00:20:51,559 --> 00:20:53,799 their mind, out of their minds and they go back to work. You 217 00:20:55,799 --> 00:21:00,039 have this sense of relevance. You sit at the head of tables, you 218 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:08,599 manage large businesses and lots of people, and so you have this sense of 219 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:14,359 relevance, and then all of a sudden, you turn in your badge and 220 00:21:14,519 --> 00:21:19,920 all that's gone. So if that's been your life for thirty five years, 221 00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:27,559 forty years, it takes some adjusting to do. And so I anticipated that 222 00:21:27,759 --> 00:21:33,039 from what I'd observed, and I said, I need a project. I 223 00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:37,519 need a plan. I wanted to spend more time at home because I was 224 00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:40,799 traveling, you know, two hundred, two hundred and fifty thousand miles a 225 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,400 year around the globe, and my kids were in high school. I wanted 226 00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:49,240 to I missed so much of their lives in the years before, in those 227 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:55,359 really impressionable years of high school. I wanted to be there. I wanted 228 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,799 to be president. So and a lot of people will say, well, 229 00:21:59,839 --> 00:22:04,880 but you went off and played these hundred golf courses. I was home a 230 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:10,920 whole lot more than I was home when I was working. I was away 231 00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:15,440 eighty eighty two eighty three nights to play those hundred golf courses as opposed to 232 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:23,200 being as opposed to being away two hundred nights. So so I said, 233 00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:27,480 I'll get I'll reconnect with the country. I used to drive across the country 234 00:22:27,519 --> 00:22:32,240 all the time, meeting with people, stopping and talking with people, really 235 00:22:32,319 --> 00:22:34,599 just engaging people and getting a fill for who we were as a country, 236 00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:37,920 and I missed doing that. So I said, I'm going to travel. 237 00:22:38,319 --> 00:22:42,680 My plan was to travel to all fifty states, take the kids with me 238 00:22:42,759 --> 00:22:48,839 to some of the most intriguing places, and play two rounds of golf in 239 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,519 each state. One with this was the initial was the initial goal. Okay, 240 00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:04,079 one with strangers and one with friends in each stayed so one private course, 241 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,039 one public course. But at Christmas, my wife gave me a book 242 00:23:08,079 --> 00:23:14,200 by John Sabino, this golf writer who had traveled around the world and play 243 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,440 the top hundred courses in the world. So I was just looking at it 244 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,519 from a math standpoint, I'm going to play one hundred courses, why not 245 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:29,039 play the top hundred? And I bet no one's ever done that in a 246 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,440 year, So why don't I just play all of the top hundred courses in 247 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:40,000 the US and do it in one year. I had no idea what I 248 00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:45,440 was talking about. I did not understand at the moment at the time how 249 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:49,599 insane that idea was. But that's always the best way to approach it. 250 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,599 An insane ideas being blind. I've done it multiple times, and I was 251 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:59,960 blind to it. So a couple of months later, Golf di just there 252 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,359 their Greatest their issue with their one hundred greatest Courses comes out. I look 253 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,720 at the list. I recognize less than half the courses on the list. 254 00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:12,240 There were places I'd never heard of, like Mayacamma, the Valley Club of 255 00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:15,759 the Valley Club of Montecito. Yes, just north of you, in Santa 256 00:24:15,839 --> 00:24:21,200 Rosa it is. So here's my great Mayacamas. I have a great Mayacama 257 00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:25,039 story. A friend of mine, a neighbor of mine, when they were 258 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,119 just about to complete my e comma, he went up there was he was 259 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:36,480 a real estate genius, and he told them I'll write you a check right 260 00:24:36,519 --> 00:24:44,319 now to get a membership if on one condition, and they're like, great, 261 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,920 what's the one condition? He said that I can be the first t 262 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,720 I get the first round of golf when you open. And they're like, 263 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:59,359 uh, okay, sure, Why do you want to be the first one 264 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,119 off? He said, I want to hold the club record, even if 265 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,839 it's but for a moment. But he can say just for a moment. 266 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,960 I had that low round in my comma, and so he did take me 267 00:25:12,039 --> 00:25:15,559 up there and play once when I was just starting to play golf, so 268 00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:21,039 I had no appreciation of it whatsoever, but I do remember vaguely how gorgeous 269 00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:23,880 it was. Yeah, that first toll part four uphill. Yeah, it's 270 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:30,839 it's it's it's, it's it's. Yeah, it's a that my Comma, 271 00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:41,720 Valley Club of Montecito, Eagle Point, just Maidstone, Kenyata. The whole 272 00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:47,279 list of courses i'd never heard of that most people haven't heard of. But 273 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,279 then were they mostly West Coast. Now they're spread across or spread across the 274 00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:53,480 country, So the courses are spread across the country. There in thirty three 275 00:25:53,480 --> 00:26:00,680 states. California has twelve, New York has thirteen, and so twenty five 276 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,960 percent of the private twenty five percent of the courses of the one hundred courses 277 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:11,680 are in those two states, and then sprinkled everywhere else and sprinkled in thirty 278 00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:18,400 one other states in between. So that's how the idea came to me, 279 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,519 and I said, well, I said, this is what I'm going to 280 00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:25,720 do. So this is what I'm going to I'm going to do, and 281 00:26:25,759 --> 00:26:29,720 I to make it even more challenging. As I said, I said, 282 00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:34,640 I'm going to do this just by meeting people, seeing if they're kind enough, 283 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:41,880 enthused enough, interested enough, willing enough to help a stranger achieve a 284 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:47,960 goal, a dream by just talking to people about what I'm doing. And 285 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,000 it was amazing. I would talk to people and I could see their mental 286 00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:57,200 rolodexes going off, and people would do some of the most amazing things to 287 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:07,279 go out of their way to help. So you went from writing a blog 288 00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:11,720 about these courses, at what point did you go, oh, hey, 289 00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:17,839 I've got a book here, and then decide to incorporate your growing up memoir 290 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,640 part into the book. So I thought about it, the journey and the 291 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,799 contrast. When I finished, I said, you know, this seems like 292 00:27:26,599 --> 00:27:38,000 an amazing story that needs to be told. I think that we see the 293 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:45,359 challenges, but not as often do we hear about the triumphs and overcoming those 294 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:53,599 challenges. And so I wanted to write a story that talked about that gave 295 00:27:53,680 --> 00:28:02,519 a real, true perspective of the challenges we face, but how those challenges 296 00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:10,359 could be overcome. And it just seemed like that journey of my life, 297 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,240 the arc of my life, and the arc of that journey across those golf 298 00:28:14,279 --> 00:28:22,799 courses had enough parallels to show the contrast and to inspire anyone who dreams big, 299 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,960 whether it's in life or whether it's in golf, that no matter how 300 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:36,920 challenging things become, we can overcome it if we work together, and that 301 00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:45,319 at our core we're kind, generous people and we connect, you know. 302 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:51,920 In writing the book, one of my goals was to write the stories. 303 00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:55,960 There are lots of stories in my life, but how do I pick stories 304 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:02,440 that I think I can write well out in a way that's compelling and intriguing 305 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:08,599 and holds the interest of the reader, but also allows the reader to connect 306 00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:17,839 to me, to find a piece of themselves in those stories and realize that 307 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,720 no matter how different we may be no matter how different our backgrounds may be, 308 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,200 how different our lives may be, we can relate to each other. 309 00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:32,200 You know, there there's this, there's this piece of this you stop and 310 00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:34,960 you think about it, for it, there's this piece of this. What's 311 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,480 interesting about some guy going around to the most privileged places in the world, 312 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:48,200 in the country, hanging out with very privileged people, playing a very privileged 313 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:56,880 game that in itself, to me isn't interesting or in intriguing nor relatable. 314 00:29:57,319 --> 00:30:02,559 But when it's an everyday man like me. I have no special talents. 315 00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:07,039 I'm not some gifted athlete. I can't sing, I can't dance, I 316 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:11,960 can't I mean, I'm just any guy you can meet on the street. 317 00:30:14,039 --> 00:30:19,680 And when you look at it from that way, that tells you what is 318 00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:26,960 different about America. That tells you that we really have something here that's worth 319 00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:34,680 fighting for, that's really worth putting forth an effort to keep and to allow 320 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:42,039 to continue to progress. The aspirations are great, but the only way they 321 00:30:42,079 --> 00:30:48,160 come about is that despite our differences, we find a way to connect to 322 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:56,039 our common humanity and work together to make it a more perfect union. And 323 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:02,319 so I write about my experience. It is with people all across the country. 324 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,440 You know, some of the stories as I'm playing golf on these amazing 325 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:12,519 places and hitting great shots and not so great shots at times playing golf, 326 00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:18,359 playing golf, some of the experiences I had, Like one of the ones 327 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:27,839 I thought was really intriguing was in a contrast was I was driving from from 328 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:36,119 Evansville, Indiana, to Columbus, Ohio, and I'm in this huge suv. 329 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:44,319 It's a rental car Infinity QX eighty or something. The tires on this 330 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:51,200 thing are humongous, and I'm driving along. I'm talking to an old college 331 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,799 friend about how I'm traveling very differently from the days when I used to pack 332 00:31:56,839 --> 00:32:04,559 everything I own in the back of my nineteen seventy eight Burgundy Chevy Monte Carlo. 333 00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:07,480 The books, the stereo, the little black and white television, and 334 00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:12,319 the clothes. That was it. That was all of my earthly possessions. 335 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:19,039 And now I'm driving around this huge monstrosity of a vehicle and the light, 336 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:28,200 the indicator light for low low tire pressure comes on and I pull over along 337 00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:32,319 the side of the interstate and there's the tire. I could hear the air 338 00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:37,279 coming out of the tire, and so there's no way on this It's a 339 00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:42,480 drizzly, dark, drizzly night in the middle of nowhere, and there's no 340 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,319 way I'm going to get out with eighteen wheelers going by at seventy seventy five 341 00:32:46,359 --> 00:32:52,680 miles an hour and change his flat. So I call the roadside service. 342 00:32:52,279 --> 00:32:58,359 Takes about an hour, but this guy shows up in a tow truck and 343 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:05,240 he starts to back up toward my vehicle, starts to let the bed down 344 00:33:05,319 --> 00:33:07,839 like he's gonna toe. I get out and I go over and talk to 345 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:13,160 him. I try to light in a moment with him, because he seems 346 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,480 pretty angry after I tell him that I don't need a toe, just a 347 00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:23,440 flat changed, and that really seemed to tick him off. And so finally 348 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,759 I just say to the guy I'd ask him his name, told him my 349 00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:30,839 name. His name is George. I say to George, So, George, 350 00:33:30,839 --> 00:33:37,400 what gives? Why are you so upset about this situation? It was 351 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:49,799 like, I just drove an hour for ten effing dollars, and I'm like, 352 00:33:50,039 --> 00:33:52,559 that blew me away that this guy was only going to make ten dollars 353 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:59,400 on this tire change. And so I asked him. How much would you 354 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:04,839 make if you were towing me? He said, twenty dollars. The difference 355 00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:10,000 to him was huge. And here I am, and George is white. 356 00:34:12,519 --> 00:34:15,360 I could see the tiredness in his eyes, the roughness of his hands when 357 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:20,320 I shook them. That this was a guy who spent his life working with 358 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:25,639 his hands and his back and weighed down by the burdens that came with all 359 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:30,159 of that, and all he's trying to do is make a living. And 360 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:37,079 here I am, traveling across the country, chasing this frivolous dream, spending 361 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:44,239 way more money than I'd care to talk about to do this, talking to 362 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:49,719 this guy for whom ten dollars makes the world of a difference. So I 363 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,639 assured George that my tip to him, I didn't know how much they were 364 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:55,960 going to pay ab or whatever, but my tip to him would make it 365 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,280 worth his while because to change, to change the tire, because what he 366 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:07,280 was doing for me was worth a whole lot more than ten bucks or even 367 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:12,880 twenty bucks. And so at the end, when I gave him the tip, 368 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,199 he smiled, and the anger went out of him just as quickly as 369 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,760 the air had gone out of that tire. And we shook and we took 370 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,199 we shook hands. And the way I thought about it is George went off 371 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:31,519 to his American and I went off to mine, And it's two different Americas 372 00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:36,920 that contrast that collided along the side of that interstate that night. But it 373 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,679 was a reminder to me that we can never forget that it's the Georges of 374 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:47,079 the world that make this world work. Without George, I'd been stuck on 375 00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:52,159 that freeway, stuck on that highway that night. So, but there's another 376 00:35:52,360 --> 00:36:00,000 part of America where you had to have some anxiety of being an African American 377 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:02,599 and in the middle of the night with a big SUV on the side of 378 00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:08,760 the road, you know, the stories that we hear had to be a 379 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:15,239 little create a little bit of anxiety. Actually, honestly, that night that 380 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:21,199 there was no anxiety on that I had anxiety. I had. The place 381 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,039 where I had anxiety is when I was driving through Kansas and I got pulled 382 00:36:24,079 --> 00:36:30,039 over for speeding when I knew I wasn't speeding by a coffin, by a 383 00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:35,320 coffin a pickup truck. But that that that that even turned out to be 384 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,320 just my anxiety because it was more at the end of the day, it 385 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:46,079 was really the small town h collecting money. It was a small town shakedown 386 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:51,800 as opposed to being stopped for driving while black. It was being stopped for 387 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:59,280 driving with out state tags. But that that's anxiety, and that's something that, 388 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,119 yeah, you you do feel and that comes. You know, a 389 00:37:01,159 --> 00:37:04,440 lot of people try to say, well, you look at the numbers, 390 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,639 and I'm a numbers guy, so I know that about a thousand people a 391 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,239 year, a thousand people total per year killed by police officers. That's a 392 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:23,280 thousand obviously too many. About about twenty five or so of those are unarmed. 393 00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:30,559 About a quarter of those are African Americans. And so when you look 394 00:37:30,599 --> 00:37:37,800 at the numbers, it's disproportional, but not vastly disproportional. But that doesn't 395 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:43,159 tell the whole story. I've been pulled over in my life several times for 396 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,960 driving while black. And when that happens to you and you know they're just 397 00:37:47,079 --> 00:37:53,639 messing with you, your lived experience has become more significant than the numbers. 398 00:37:54,800 --> 00:38:01,679 And so those are the things. And I think we've made a tremendous amount 399 00:38:01,679 --> 00:38:09,320 of progress from when I had a kid's college kids riding through my neighborhood through 400 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:15,480 the saw Mill quarters in Huntsville, Texas, when I was five, six 401 00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:22,119 seven years old, yelling racial epithets, Uh, we've come a long way. 402 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,000 We've still got progress to make, but we've come a long way and 403 00:38:25,199 --> 00:38:30,519 we've made I think we've made substantial progress, but still have a lot of 404 00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:35,079 work to do. But I still have times. You know, I'm in 405 00:38:35,159 --> 00:38:39,920 I'm in Philadelphia, and I was sitting out in front of a vet's office 406 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,480 next to uh it was it was a there was a bakery. There's a 407 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:52,280 bakery next to the vet's office. I'm sitting out while the vets taking care 408 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,840 of our dog, you know, doing the the exam, and and I'm 409 00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:01,039 just sitting out there hanging out. This woman passed me, stops and says, 410 00:39:01,079 --> 00:39:07,639 I'm so sorry. I don't have any change with me. I'm like, 411 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,760 excuse me. He says, I can't give you any money. I 412 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,840 said, ma'am, I didn't ask you for any money. Then she goes, 413 00:39:16,079 --> 00:39:21,760 I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but there's this assumption. 414 00:39:22,639 --> 00:39:29,440 So I have that. But at the same time, most of the people, 415 00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:34,559 the vast majority of people who helped me gain access to all these courses 416 00:39:35,079 --> 00:39:40,199 were white, and to them I was a stranger. They invited me into 417 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:49,559 their club, their homes, and their lives. And so we have to 418 00:39:49,639 --> 00:40:00,239 acknowledge that progress that's been made and then continue to work toward making more progress. 419 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:07,960 You and I are both engineering people, but with very different types of 420 00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:14,440 engineers in our training. But I've always been fascinated by there was there was 421 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,480 a great I think. I don't know it's a bumper stick or a T 422 00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:22,480 shirt, but it said optimisty the world the glass glasses have full pessimiscy. 423 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:28,719 The glass is half empty, and engineers are wondering why we need a glass 424 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:36,880 that's twice the size of art. But yeah, but you had a very 425 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:43,480 successful career working for Exxon Mobile for thirty five years, you said, and 426 00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:49,599 you worked your way up to a prominent position there where you could retire at 427 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:58,599 a doable age and pursue an amazing and outrageous goal. I'd love to talk 428 00:40:58,639 --> 00:41:02,800 to about more of the golf courses that, even without writing it down, 429 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:09,360 that would stick in your mind forever. Yeah. So there's this course that 430 00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:16,239 very few people have heard of. It's in southern Illinois, across the border 431 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:24,480 from Terry Hate Indiana up US Highway one in Marshall, Indiana and Marshall, 432 00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:30,639 Illinois, and it's called kenneyata c A n y A t d A. 433 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:39,000 It was. It's very private, owned by one guy. There's zero members, 434 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:45,679 there's no pro staff, there's just the groundskeeper and his crew. And 435 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,840 that day that I played it, I was the only guest for the course. 436 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:57,039 I had this entire course to myself. No, I mean it was 437 00:41:57,079 --> 00:42:00,440 amazing for me. So when I was a boy, I lived in what 438 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:06,719 we called the country, the wide open prairies, and I ran barefoot through 439 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:12,039 the woods and went on all these exploratory trips and just commune with nature, 440 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:19,760 and I fell at home. And for so I played the front nine by 441 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,639 myself, and the golf course superintendent played with me on the back nine. 442 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:30,159 But it was just so peaceful, the symphony of the noises from nature. 443 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:38,360 It was me and those along these de covered fairways where my footprints were the 444 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:45,840 only footprints in the dew. And I this boy who grew up without a 445 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:51,199 bed, let alone a room of his own, had a golf course all 446 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,360 to himself. That was an amazing That's an amazing course. That's private course. 447 00:42:57,559 --> 00:43:05,960 Then you've got Cyprus, Cyprus Point, the beauty, the variety of 448 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,559 holes where you can play each hole. Not only are the holes different, 449 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:15,159 but each hole can be played so many different ways. And then there's this 450 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:21,760 par three risk. Probably the best risk ward part three in the country is 451 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:28,039 the sixteenth iconic sixteenth hole, sixteenth hole where you hit you have a choice 452 00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:30,920 of hitting over this cove to the green. It takes about one hundred and 453 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:36,480 eighty five yards to clear. The hole is longer, but to clear it's 454 00:43:36,519 --> 00:43:38,679 two hundred and ten yards or so. But to clear over the cove, 455 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:45,280 you've got to hit it about one hundred and eighty five yards and you're going 456 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,719 due west, probably right into the weeds. Yes, it's coming off. 457 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:53,800 Yeah, so you're and a lot of people will bell out to the left 458 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,119 and chip up and hope that they want put and make par. But I'd 459 00:43:59,159 --> 00:44:04,039 flown three thousand miles across the country and a tube at thirty five thousand feet, 460 00:44:04,679 --> 00:44:07,880 and I said, I'm not going across the whole country to bel out 461 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:15,559 left on the golf course. I'm going for it, And for one hundred 462 00:44:15,559 --> 00:44:21,360 and eighty two of those one hundred and eighty five yards to clear the cook 463 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,079 the cove and get on the other side of the cliff. My ball looks 464 00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:31,400 splendent sailing through the blue sky, but those last three it never made it. 465 00:44:35,159 --> 00:44:40,239 It plummeted it down toward Davy Jones's locker. But still what an awesome 466 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,920 experience. Then I belt out to the left, chipped up one, put 467 00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:47,079 it for my double bogie, which would have been a part had I not 468 00:44:47,159 --> 00:44:52,159 taken the resk in that your second ballpark. So that's one of my top 469 00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:57,639 five courses that I played. Augusta National one of the top five because it's 470 00:44:57,639 --> 00:45:02,880 such a magical, mystical place. You got Marion, that's in Philadelphia. 471 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,760 What's your Mount Rushmore? Of course, so if you had to pick four, 472 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,840 five, five, I got to go with five. We talked about 473 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:16,800 Cyprus point Uh. We talked about Augusta, Marion so rich in golf tradition 474 00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:22,960 and so much respect by the membership for the traditions of the game and the 475 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:29,039 honor of the game. So and then of course that's just spectacular. With 476 00:45:29,159 --> 00:45:32,880 the layout, the holes they say you experience, the first six holes are 477 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:38,440 like I think are drama, the middle six of comedy, the last six 478 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,840 of tragedy. I felt all of that on the first three holes. I 479 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,960 had comedy, tragedy and drama on the first three holes. But it's a 480 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:52,960 it's a special place. And then there's Pine Valley, where where there you 481 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:57,199 go on your shirt, on your shirt, I'm wearing this and it's a 482 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,719 gift from a friend who played there. I did not, but I knew 483 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,440 today I had to wear this shit. Yes, yes, So you have 484 00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:08,039 Pine Valley where you know, in some courses you have what they call let 485 00:46:08,119 --> 00:46:13,440 up holes where the course could be hard, but there's an easy hole here 486 00:46:13,559 --> 00:46:17,880 there at Pine Valley. You don't even have let up shots. Every shot 487 00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:22,679 you have to be on. The slightest of misses gets you in a lot 488 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:28,519 of trouble that it's hard to recover from the holes. Some of the holes 489 00:46:28,559 --> 00:46:34,000 play extremely long, they play along ravines. They there's a lot of sand, 490 00:46:34,679 --> 00:46:43,559 the rough scraggly. The greens are surrounded by bunkers and scraggly rough. 491 00:46:43,639 --> 00:46:47,480 You've got to really always fly the ball onto the green. It's it's a 492 00:46:47,679 --> 00:46:55,039 it's a challenge to anyone's game. There's the fifth hole is a long part 493 00:46:55,039 --> 00:47:00,559 about two and thirty five and forty five yard par par three, and I 494 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:05,840 just refused, just on principle, to ever hit anything more than a three 495 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,440 wood off the tea. So it's like, I'm going to hit my three 496 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,280 wood. It's going to go as far as it's going to go, and 497 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,440 I'm gonna play it from there. I'm not going to hit a driver. 498 00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:14,880 There's too much I got too much pride to hit a drive go on a 499 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,400 part three. But it's it's it is. So it's a great experience. 500 00:47:20,559 --> 00:47:23,320 And then when you play the winds like it when you play at Bandoned Dunes 501 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,519 and you get the winds up there, that's a place where you're like, 502 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,840 yeah, I may need a drive run this hole, even though it's one 503 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,760 hundred and forty ards. Yeah, you can have that with the winds coming 504 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:40,599 off of off the ocean. And then the last one Fisher's Island. The 505 00:47:40,599 --> 00:47:45,480 fifth is Fisher's Island, which is a seth Reiner design with template holes holes 506 00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:52,239 that these holes were holes that cb McDonald discovered when he traveled through the British 507 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:59,760 Isles and saw holes that he thought both amateur golfers, novice golfers and experts 508 00:48:00,159 --> 00:48:02,719 like. And he came back to the US and designed these courses with him. 509 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:07,000 In one of his brotegs is Seth Rayner, who also designs, And 510 00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:15,400 so you have this charming island in Long Island Sound around the perimeter. These 511 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:22,039 holes formed the golf course, charming, beautiful and the template holes. So 512 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,719 those are my five Augusta National no certain order, but Augusta National, Pine 513 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:31,679 Valley, Marion, Fisher's Island in Cyprus Point. That's a lifetime worth a 514 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:37,760 golf in most cases just to play one of those. And I played those 515 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:42,719 five plus ninety five others all in that twelve month period. So it was 516 00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,559 it was a mind boggling experience to see all these great courses in such a 517 00:48:47,559 --> 00:48:59,599 short time. Jimmy, I am so honored to me too. After reading 518 00:48:59,599 --> 00:49:05,079 your book book, I closed the book, and I've read numerous golf books 519 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,960 for the podcast and otherwise, but this is the first time I ever closed 520 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,400 the book and said, I want to play golf with this guy. I 521 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,079 want to go out because there's so many things that I felt parallel in my 522 00:49:16,199 --> 00:49:23,519 life with yours, a similar age. But you know, hardships, No, 523 00:49:23,639 --> 00:49:30,679 we can't compare, and I'll never try. But there were so many 524 00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:36,639 parts in the book that I highlighted that i'd love to discuss. We won't 525 00:49:36,679 --> 00:49:42,639 have that time today. The line like I was my mother's fourth live birth, 526 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,480 that just kind of like stopped me in my tracks. But I want 527 00:49:46,519 --> 00:49:50,760 to talk about a court. One of the things he wrote. We just 528 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,760 finished the PGA Championship this past weekend that was played at Valhalla, which you 529 00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:02,760 got to play. But the line you had in there that really kind of 530 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:08,679 jumped out of me was saying being black conferred a greater sense of powerlessness than 531 00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:15,559 being poor, though poverty was a constant presence in our lives. You also 532 00:50:15,639 --> 00:50:21,000 said relentless reminder of our status as second class citizens. There were still whites 533 00:50:21,079 --> 00:50:24,599 only signs posted on doors and windows around downtown. Yeah, so that was 534 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:37,480 life in the Jim Crow era in Texas back in the early sixties. We 535 00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:43,199 lived in I was born out. I was born sort of in the backwoods. 536 00:50:43,199 --> 00:50:51,800 We moved to the small town Huntsville, and when I was like three 537 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,960 years old to two years old, three years old, and then we moved 538 00:50:54,960 --> 00:51:00,079 to the Selma quarters. My mother met this guy who became I guess my 539 00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:06,760 step father. But we lived in a shack. It was a ten roof 540 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:14,440 shack on a dirt road, no plumbing, no electricity, outhouse. And 541 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:20,320 on Friday nights when the music would die down and the people that would come 542 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:27,000 to my aunt Eessie Peril's next door for sort of a jute joint night, 543 00:51:27,679 --> 00:51:31,159 when they all went home, this other ritual would start and it would be 544 00:51:31,639 --> 00:51:40,280 the white college kids driving drunk down our dirt road, throwing beer bottles Peril 545 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:46,480 beer and Long Star beer bottles at us at our houses. We were inside 546 00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:53,480 sleep of course, but awakened by them and yelling racial epithets. And that 547 00:51:53,719 --> 00:52:00,960 was that sense of powerlessness at the time that I was a kid. And 548 00:52:00,039 --> 00:52:06,800 I think that's something of the progress we have made from what life was like 549 00:52:08,199 --> 00:52:15,519 during that time in the early sixties and where we are where we are now. 550 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:23,280 But sec we were clearly second class citizens, right right, you wrote 551 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:30,320 me, you wrote in the forward, said history has often been written as 552 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,599 if people like me were voiceless extras in a movie. We were never intended 553 00:52:34,599 --> 00:52:37,880 to see. Right. So my birth certificate, my birth certificate has two 554 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:44,719 words that were on it that were considered important back in the early nineteen sixties, 555 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:52,840 and they were that I was illegitimate meaning I did not legally exist and 556 00:52:52,880 --> 00:53:02,360 I was colored. So that is so dehumanizing, demeaning, and I had 557 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:13,960 to live with that. It gave me this sense of being less than and 558 00:53:14,039 --> 00:53:20,920 so that that's something that I struggled with and had to overcome, and it's 559 00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:24,119 it's challenges. But the thing that I would also say for it here is 560 00:53:25,599 --> 00:53:34,960 I write about my life factually, not to compare the challenges. I make 561 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:42,320 that point too when I take talk about Frank McCourt's version of the Irish version 562 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:49,639 of the life that I had. I think everybody has challenges and to each 563 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:57,639 person their challenge is daunting. To them, their challenge is daunting, and 564 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:07,400 that our lives are determined at the intersection of adversity and aspirations. When our 565 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:14,960 biggest hopes and dreams for our lives are threatened by the biggest challenges we face, 566 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,480 what do we do? And for me, because I had a mother 567 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:28,239 who modeled it, you don't quit, you find a way. And so 568 00:54:28,519 --> 00:54:31,480 even as I look at what we face as a country today, my answer 569 00:54:31,519 --> 00:54:37,000 to all of that is not to quit, not to give up, but 570 00:54:37,039 --> 00:54:43,280 to find a way to work through it, to find a way to get 571 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,360 beyond it to find a way to come together. You know you hear this 572 00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:52,400 just talk and I read about this in the book also, that you're only 573 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:57,400 as strong a chain, You're only as strong as your weakest link. That 574 00:54:57,599 --> 00:55:01,199 is exactly right for a chain, I can tell you from an engineering standpoint, 575 00:55:01,599 --> 00:55:06,760 when you look at the granular structure of steel and you look at the 576 00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:13,199 front body cubics and front center cubics and you have stress points, and yes, 577 00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:20,159 that chain is only as strong as that weakest link. But a society 578 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:25,480 isn't a chain. And in a society, we have strengths and weaknesses, 579 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:30,400 and we can work together to overcome each other's strengths, and we can lift 580 00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:37,119 each other up and be much stronger than we are individual as individual links, 581 00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:40,719 because we are a society. And so in the midst of all of what 582 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:47,360 we're going through now, rather than looking for what divides us, we got 583 00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:54,719 to find that common humanity. And I talk about that in the sense for 584 00:55:54,960 --> 00:56:00,960 every person, as I mentioned earlier, every person who this book, I 585 00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:07,719 hope in my stories they find a piece of themselves. They find something that 586 00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:12,360 they can relate to, something that reminds them of their lives, and something 587 00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,800 that causes them to do what I do from time to time, and that 588 00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:24,280 is get a little nostalgic for the simplicity that life wants offered because at our 589 00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:30,639 core, at our basic simple levels, what I saw at country clubs and 590 00:56:30,639 --> 00:56:36,960 what I saw on the side of the road in Evansville, Indiana eating dinner 591 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:42,960 at a Golden Corral, where that we have the same hopes and dreams and 592 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,840 aspirations for the ones we love, and the same challenges and we're all trying 593 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:52,519 to get through it right. So, yes, we all have our own 594 00:56:52,599 --> 00:56:59,719 challenges. Mine are definitely not similar to you. But I did lose both 595 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:05,440 of my parents when I was seven years old, and I've always lived my 596 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,639 life. I think this is kind of like why I love golf is that 597 00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:16,920 your life isn't defined by what has happened to you. Your life is defined 598 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:23,719 on how you deal with exactly and how you meet those challenges. And you're 599 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,960 going to have them. You don't need to. It doesn't need to be 600 00:57:28,039 --> 00:57:34,960 the first thing that enters the room in front of you. And remember a 601 00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,239 cartoon once, maybe it was a Charlie Brown cartoon, but he was like, 602 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:44,760 why did you only shine the front of your shoes, and he says, 603 00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,519 I only want no people. I want to have a good first impression 604 00:57:49,079 --> 00:57:52,519 so that people don't think of me, you know, poorly. So I 605 00:57:52,599 --> 00:57:54,679 just need to have my shoes clean in the front. And to me, 606 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:59,360 it's like I want to have the back of my shoes cleaned, right, 607 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,400 No, No, I want when I walk out people go yeah, okay, 608 00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:07,559 yeah, he's met the challenges. And golf is like that. You 609 00:58:07,559 --> 00:58:13,280 know, the first time I hit a golf ball purely and watched it sore 610 00:58:13,559 --> 00:58:16,639 off into the sky, that feeling, that sense of accomplishment, it's just 611 00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:22,159 it's amazing. And now I will tell you how I relate that back to 612 00:58:22,239 --> 00:58:32,480 life. My ancestors were put in the bottom of a ship, scrunched together 613 00:58:32,639 --> 00:58:44,199 like sardines, eating and defecating in the same space. But somehow they survived. 614 00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:50,679 And not only did they survived, they laid They helped build a country, 615 00:58:52,000 --> 00:59:01,599 and they laid a foundation for us. And they endured what they endured. 616 00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:08,079 What we endures nothing compared to what they endured. But yet they found 617 00:59:08,239 --> 00:59:19,119 a way to survive. We ought to be able together to find a way 618 00:59:19,199 --> 00:59:23,559 to make this country a better country and stop taking it from stop taking it 619 00:59:23,559 --> 00:59:27,519 for granted. You know, I played golf. One of the courses I 620 00:59:27,599 --> 00:59:31,679 played golf at was Whispering Pines. Whispering Pines is less than twenty five miles 621 00:59:32,119 --> 00:59:38,679 from the plantation where my ancestors were slaves. They could never have imagined that 622 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:49,119 one day one one of their descendants would be playing a leisure sport on that 623 00:59:49,320 --> 01:00:00,679 land where they had toiled and been chattel slavery owned by someone. And so 624 01:00:00,719 --> 01:00:04,679 I look at that. We've made a lot of progress in a couple of 625 01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,000 hundred years, but we got a lot more progress to make a long way 626 01:00:07,039 --> 01:00:10,800 ago, a lot more progress to make. But we're not going to make 627 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,960 that progress if we don't work together. If we don't come together and work 628 01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,360 together and make it happen. It is not up to someone else to make 629 01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:21,880 it happen. It's up to us working together to make it happen. It's 630 01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:23,599 not just about what white's going to do, It's not just about what blacks 631 01:00:23,639 --> 01:00:27,360 are going to do. We all have a responsibility. We got to do 632 01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:35,559 it together. Yes, So, after losing my parents, I was raised 633 01:00:35,559 --> 01:00:40,880 by my grandparents who had to escape the Ukraine, which at the time was 634 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:47,760 Russia, from the Progroms, where my grandmother who raised me lost all of 635 01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:57,760 her family to the Cossacks and then had to sneak onto a boat from Europe 636 01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:01,559 to the United States while she was pregnant, lost the baby, and they 637 01:01:01,639 --> 01:01:07,840 center back when she got to the United States. So I'm not saying we 638 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:14,039 have the same story. But as I said to you before, I want 639 01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:17,199 to play golf you because we have a lot of similarities that we can share 640 01:01:17,719 --> 01:01:23,960 the pain and suffering of lives and the successes of life. So I will 641 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:29,159 say, I will say to you share that the elements of our story may 642 01:01:29,159 --> 01:01:34,800 be different, but we have the same story. We have the human story. 643 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,519 I didn't want to be a soper. We have we have the human 644 01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:40,320 story, the human experience. You know, a lot of people make the 645 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:45,280 mistake thinking that golf is supposed to be easy. Some people make that mistake. 646 01:01:45,639 --> 01:01:50,840 Golf is not easy, golf is golf is hard. Golf is hard. 647 01:01:51,519 --> 01:01:57,440 Life is not easy. Life is hard. And one of the things 648 01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:01,119 I say in the book too is that people are resils, but life is 649 01:02:01,239 --> 01:02:09,440 tenuous and to go through, to make it through, to overcome the challenges. 650 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,920 We can never take that for granted. It's not a given. And 651 01:02:17,159 --> 01:02:23,440 we have struggled. Blacks have struggled in this country, but we're not the 652 01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:30,840 only ones that have struggled humans throughout human history. We've all struggled, and 653 01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:36,440 those struggles are different, and some of those struggles are brought about by evil 654 01:02:36,519 --> 01:02:42,440 and some are just the natural conditions of life. But as you said earlier, 655 01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:49,599 we're more defined not by the challenges we face, but by the things 656 01:02:49,639 --> 01:02:55,239 we achieve despite those challenges, by the things we overcome. And everybody has 657 01:02:55,360 --> 01:03:06,159 overcome something and we should respect that and appreciate that absolutely. I highly highly 658 01:03:06,239 --> 01:03:08,960 recommend that everybody read this book. If you're a golf fan at all, 659 01:03:09,119 --> 01:03:12,840 you got to read this book. If you're a phantom memoirs, you got 660 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:19,039 to read this book. It's it's so worth it and so powerful, and 661 01:03:19,079 --> 01:03:24,960 it's such a joyous journey to follow. Congratulations on the book, Congratulations on 662 01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:30,719 your success. The book again is called Playing from the Rough, a Personal 663 01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:37,000 Journey through America's one hundred greatest golf courses DoD DoD Dot by Jimmy James. 664 01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:42,960 Jimmy, we're gonna play golf together. Something. We're going to play golf 665 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,360 together. We'll play golf together, either in California or maybe in Atlanta with 666 01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:51,079 doctor Bob Jones over at Bobby Jones Golf Course. I'm in, or we 667 01:03:51,119 --> 01:03:54,400 could play. We could play. We could play out his at Atlanta Athletic 668 01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:59,000 Club. He's got two courses out there, so we we will play golf 669 01:03:59,119 --> 01:04:04,519 together again. Jimmy's book, Playing from the Rough, published by Simon and 670 01:04:04,559 --> 01:04:09,760 Schuster, will be available for purchase on June eleventh, twenty twenty four. 671 01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:14,079 I'm sure that you can pre order it right now from your favorite bookseller and 672 01:04:14,159 --> 01:04:19,360 get it delivered as soon as it is released. Getting to complete the interview 673 01:04:19,519 --> 01:04:26,400 and being able to deliver this conversation to you before the book's release was actually 674 01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:30,639 quite a coup. I received a press release yesterday from the PR firm saying 675 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:36,280 that Jimmy will be available for interview starting June seventh, which is a couple 676 01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:42,000 days from now. And I enjoyed this story so much that even after the 677 01:04:42,079 --> 01:04:46,000 interview, I continued to read the book, which doesn't always happen, and 678 01:04:46,039 --> 01:04:53,800 I'm enjoying it immensely. I mentioned the three day civil rights tour through Atlanta, 679 01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:57,960 Georgia, Montgomery, Selma and Birmingham, Alabama, that we went on 680 01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,679 this past February. I invite you to stay tuned after this episode because I 681 01:05:01,719 --> 01:05:08,559 want to share with you an episode of Joanne's podcast, Joanne's my wife called 682 01:05:08,679 --> 01:05:14,400 in this story about her reflections on our journey and discovery through the Deep South. 683 01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:18,960 In the story. Podcast is a collection of short micro essays Joanne writes 684 01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:25,079 reflecting on her life and life's adventures. She's got a great voice, is 685 01:05:25,119 --> 01:05:30,679 an excellent writer, and this podcast is very entertaining and enlightening. Please subscribe 686 01:05:30,719 --> 01:05:35,320 and get a new episode every other week. And I know if she's listening, 687 01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:40,119 which rarely happens, but if she is listening, she's like, would 688 01:05:40,119 --> 01:05:45,440 you stop ragging about me? No, my dear, never. But first, 689 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:50,119 let's talk about playing golf together in September and next spring on our civil 690 01:05:50,199 --> 01:05:55,920 rights tour. As the bus left Atlanta headed for Montgomery, isn't that a 691 01:05:55,960 --> 01:06:00,760 song title? Well, not long after we entered Alabama, passed a sign 692 01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:05,039 that said Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail, which I've always wanted to visit and 693 01:06:05,119 --> 01:06:11,199 now that I realized how accessible it is from Atlanta. And then was contacted 694 01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:15,039 by Tara Fox about partnering with TMI golf, about doing golf adventures with the 695 01:06:15,039 --> 01:06:20,599 golf Smarter community, especially our ambassadors. I knew this could be another bucket 696 01:06:20,599 --> 01:06:26,400 list item checked off. But first, what don't you and your partner joined 697 01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:31,800 me and Joanne for an outrageous adventure to Portugal this September fifth through the thirteenth, 698 01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:35,960 twenty twenty four. We've scheduled three rounds of golf, but if you'd 699 01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,239 prefer, you can play golf every day. We're on the coast of Villemorra. 700 01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:45,920 There's lots of flexibility in our schedule. Non golfers will experience optional spa 701 01:06:45,079 --> 01:06:49,719 visits, sightseeing and time to relax on the beach. And you'll have time 702 01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:56,000 to yourselves to make this one of the most memorable and romantic trips of your 703 01:06:56,039 --> 01:06:59,920 life. Go ahead, you make the plans. She'll be touched by your 704 01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:04,039 thoughtfulness. Right do we ever make plans other than playing golf? And do 705 01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:09,920 we get hard time for it? Okay? I speaking about myself, So 706 01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:14,239 clear your calendar and let's do this. To get all the information pricing and 707 01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:19,880 download the detailed PDF, please visit tmigolf dot com, slash golf Smarter and 708 01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:24,559 if you have any questions, please write to me directly. I want to 709 01:07:24,559 --> 01:07:28,159 thank this week's Golf Smarter Ambassador, Gene Thornton of Nutley, New Jersey. 710 01:07:28,639 --> 01:07:32,320 Gene wanted to get more out of his rounds at Hendrick's Golf Course, so 711 01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:36,840 he took advantage of getting a free copy of Tony Manzoni's video of the loss 712 01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:42,800 Fundamental. So if you've been listening to our Tony Manzoni series would like to 713 01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,079 get Tony's video for free, then all you have to do is create an 714 01:07:46,079 --> 01:07:50,960 intro for an upcoming Golf Smarter episode. But if you'd like to try something 715 01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:56,119 else, it's up to you. Choose between Tony's video, a glove and 716 01:07:56,159 --> 01:08:00,880 clove storage compartment from redroostergolf dot com, the online glove subscription service that has 717 01:08:01,079 --> 01:08:04,920 high quality gloves you get delivered to your door as often as you'd like, 718 01:08:05,719 --> 01:08:12,119 or a box of the premium Flight Path Golf Te's my favorite tea of all 719 01:08:12,199 --> 01:08:17,079 time at above all. So right to Golf Smarter podcast at gmail dot com 720 01:08:17,079 --> 01:08:20,319 and I'll get back to you with some simple instructions on what to do, 721 01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:26,239 what to say, and how to take advantage of your free gift. This 722 01:08:26,399 --> 01:08:31,720 Friday, we'll release the final episode of our Tony Manzoni series for twenty twenty 723 01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:38,439 four. It's a conversation that's never been replayed before. Edit includes one of 724 01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:43,119 my all time favorite stories that Tony has shared. I had met Frank Sinatra 725 01:08:43,119 --> 01:08:48,479 and invited to the house on many occasions with my fiance and one day out 726 01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:53,760 of the Blushet blurted to Frank, Frank, you've got to come over to 727 01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:58,560 the house and I'll we'll cook your dinner. And of course my eyes rolled 728 01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,520 back to the back of my head because she was a beautiful girl, but 729 01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:05,600 she could really couldn't boil water. Okay, So when we got in the 730 01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:09,680 car, When we got in the car, I says, that are you 731 01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,319 going to serve Frank Sinatra beans and Franks? What are you? Are you 732 01:09:12,399 --> 01:09:15,479 crazy? So I said, and she looked at me with that pretty little 733 01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,039 face, and I said, I got this handled. So I called my 734 01:09:18,119 --> 01:09:21,199 mother, who was in santase and I said, Mom, and I didn't 735 01:09:21,199 --> 01:09:25,079 say Frank Sinatra. I just said, I've got some really important people coming 736 01:09:25,119 --> 01:09:30,279 over. Can you make some homemade raviolis and meatballs, put them on dry 737 01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:33,880 ice and fly him. I'll pay for it, fly it from Santa'sday to 738 01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:39,520 Palm Springs. So she said, sure, no problem. So she sent 739 01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,600 all this food over dry ice. And I had a good friend of mine 740 01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,960 who was a musician, and he wanted to be there when Frank Sinatra was 741 01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:49,000 and he was. He said, I'll help you arrange everything, cook everything. 742 01:09:49,119 --> 01:09:54,520 So we did, and Frank shows up with Jillie Rizzo, who is 743 01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:59,439 his good time friend, and and we sit down and eat and talk. 744 01:10:00,159 --> 01:10:03,920 He said yes, she asked him to come to Oh yeah, he said 745 01:10:04,119 --> 01:10:06,920 he had said yes when at his house when we were having dinner. He 746 01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:11,439 said yes, oh yeah, ok yeah, so that the pressure was on 747 01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:15,880 me. So anyway, so we're sitting there and Frank says to me, 748 01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:19,359 or he says to my fiance Mimi. He said me, me, these 749 01:10:19,359 --> 01:10:23,239 are the best meatballs I've ever had in my life. He said, I 750 01:10:23,239 --> 01:10:26,479 mean, I've eaten all over the world. You got to give me the 751 01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:30,439 recipe. And she started to say something. I said, Frank, I 752 01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:32,119 had the sure ade. It has to be over and I told him the 753 01:10:32,159 --> 01:10:35,680 story that what I did, and he started howling. He couldn't. He 754 01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:39,600 thought that was the funniest thing. He says get your mother on the phone. 755 01:10:40,159 --> 01:10:43,640 So I called my mother and my mother's name was Nina. So I 756 01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:45,000 said, Mom, I said, Frank Sinatra would like to talk to you. 757 01:10:45,039 --> 01:10:46,960 She didn't get the hell out of here, but I said, no, 758 01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:53,800 no, I'm no mom. That's who I said, Frank Sinatra would 759 01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,800 like to talk to you. So he gets on the phone. And you 760 01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:00,119 got to remember, at our house, we had a picture of Jesus and 761 01:11:00,159 --> 01:11:04,760 the next time we had a picture of Frank. Okay, So so my 762 01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:09,399 mother says, says hello, mister Sinatra, and he said, Nina, 763 01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,399 and he says, I got to tell you something. Those are the best 764 01:11:12,399 --> 01:11:15,399 meatballs I've ever had, blah blah blah blah, and can you send me 765 01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:17,920 the recipe? And my mother said to them, Frank, I'll make you 766 01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:21,319 all the meatballs you want, but you never get my recipe. And he 767 01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:29,319 broke up. He just loved that she denied him. Okay, nobody did 768 01:11:29,359 --> 01:11:33,560 that to Frank Sinatra. Nobody said not. He just loved her for that. 769 01:11:34,159 --> 01:11:39,840 And through the years she used to make Christmas cookies, all homemade, 770 01:11:40,399 --> 01:11:45,880 unbelievable, and she would always send him Christmas cookies every Christmas, and he 771 01:11:45,039 --> 01:11:50,319 was so wonderful. Whenever he appeared in San Francisco or wherever my folks went. 772 01:11:50,359 --> 01:11:55,399 They sat at the Sinoptra table right against the stage. The guy was 773 01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:59,079 just amazing. But he just when Christmas comes, he say, you think 774 01:11:59,079 --> 01:12:00,680 your mom's going to send the cookies? Is a rank you can just call 775 01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:04,359 on on it. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions for 776 01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:10,359 upcoming episodes, or need more information and want to discuss our September Portugal adventure, 777 01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:15,159 please write to Golf Smarter podcast at gmail dot com or click on the 778 01:12:15,199 --> 01:12:21,560 Heyfred button when you visit Golfsmarter dot com and now in this story. In 779 01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:31,319 this story a journey to Alabama, I'm joe Anne Green. On vacation, 780 01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:39,319 we travel for rest, relaxation, and adventure. Other times we brace ourselves 781 01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:44,760 and head out into a great unknown to bear witness, to expose ourselves to 782 01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:49,439 the horrors of history, to learn about people and actions that have impacted countless 783 01:12:49,479 --> 01:13:00,119 others for generations, so we don't let it happen again. Visiting the to 784 01:13:00,279 --> 01:13:05,600 Rasienstatt and Auschwitz concentration camps years ago was like that for me, seeing where 785 01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:12,039 the horrors took place and hearing from people who lived it made history come alive 786 01:13:12,119 --> 01:13:15,880 in a very different way. Yes, it was painful, but unlike so 787 01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:19,399 many Jews, including my great uncles, I got to walk out and reboard 788 01:13:19,399 --> 01:13:25,039 the bus. In many ways, my recent civil rights trip to Georgia and 789 01:13:25,119 --> 01:13:29,319 Alabama was like that. When you're face to face with people who were there, 790 01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:33,239 on the very ground where atrocities were committed, you can't pretend that it 791 01:13:33,279 --> 01:13:40,359 didn't happen, and knowing can lead to action. As a child outside of 792 01:13:40,359 --> 01:13:44,239 Boston in the early nineteen sixties, I heard about the Civil rights movement. 793 01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,359 Of course, everyone is created equal, I thought, no matter their skin 794 01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:54,279 color. Why then could Hattie, our cleaning woman's daughter come and play at 795 01:13:54,279 --> 01:13:58,479 my house? But I wasn't allowed to visit her. If her neighborhood was 796 01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:02,760 dangerous, as my father warned, why did she live there. The more 797 01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:08,960 I've learned about our country's history, from slavery through Jim Crow, the Great 798 01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:12,840 Migration, the fight for voting rights, police brutality to young black men, 799 01:14:13,159 --> 01:14:18,239 and mass incarceration, the more curious I've been to her personal stories, especially 800 01:14:18,279 --> 01:14:24,479 from those who are on the front lines. As with Holocaust survivors, time 801 01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:30,039 is running out to hear first person testimonies from Bloody Sunday on the Edmund Pettis 802 01:14:30,079 --> 01:14:34,239 Bridge in Selma and from the park in Birmingham where vicious dogs and high power 803 01:14:34,319 --> 01:14:41,600 water hoses were set on black children. Reading books, listening to podcasts, 804 01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:45,560 and watching films about the arc of African American history is powerful and I believe 805 01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:51,600 essential. To understand race relations in the US requires an understanding of what's taken 806 01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:57,920 place for hundreds of years and what is taking place today. But sitting with 807 01:14:58,079 --> 01:15:02,199 people face to face and hearing how their lives have been defined by the civil 808 01:15:02,279 --> 01:15:08,399 rights movement provides a deeper level of impact. I don't know what it's going 809 01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:12,960 to take to make the world right. I do know that you should not 810 01:15:13,119 --> 01:15:20,880 be sitting waiting for it to happen for somebody else to do it. That's 811 01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:26,920 the voice of joe Anne Bland, a wise, passionate, straight talking seventy 812 01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:30,479 year old black woman from Selma who vividly recalls staring into the window of the 813 01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:34,800 local drug store where only the white kids could order sodas instead of the counter. 814 01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:41,199 We met her in a large dark space filled with artifacts and memorabilia from 815 01:15:41,279 --> 01:15:45,840 her life of activism as a child. She told us the women of her 816 01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:49,880 church were organizing to be able to vote in the upcoming elections. Then Reverend 817 01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:56,319 Martin Luther King Junior came to town and organized a Sunday protest march across the 818 01:15:56,439 --> 01:16:00,680 Edmund Pettis Bridge. Joanne was eleven and she went with her then fifteen year 819 01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:04,640 old sister Linda. When they came up over the high point on the bridge, 820 01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:10,880 they saw sheriff's deputies mounted on horseback blocking their path. Within minutes, 821 01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:15,119 they were being chased and beaten. Linda sustained serious head injuries, but a 822 01:16:15,119 --> 01:16:20,199 few days later stitched up and ready for more. Joeanne's sister went on to 823 01:16:20,239 --> 01:16:28,479 be the youngest person to march all the way from Selma to Montgomery. Joe 824 01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:33,159 Anne Bland is among many featured in an excellent NPR podcast series entitled White Lies, 825 01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:39,239 from which this audio was taken. When you talk about reconciliation, you 826 01:16:39,359 --> 01:16:45,079 have to talk about a way to distribute the power, and nobody wants to 827 01:16:45,079 --> 01:16:50,079 give up be in the power. Anytime there's a minute shift in power from 828 01:16:50,119 --> 01:16:55,920 the people who were holding the power, a battle ensues. I can give 829 01:16:55,960 --> 01:17:00,319 you a perfect example, the signing of the voting rights that in nineteen sixty 830 01:17:00,399 --> 01:17:05,479 five. Tell me one year it has not been on the attack. Come 831 01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:12,119 on, I'm listening. So if voting is not important, why would you 832 01:17:12,239 --> 01:17:15,239 try to keep it away from me? And why would you try to stop 833 01:17:15,279 --> 01:17:24,000 people from boding after they get the right to vote if it wasn't important. 834 01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:29,039 Joe Anne Bland co founded the National Voting Rights Museum in Selma. Her sister 835 01:17:29,119 --> 01:17:33,159 Linda Blackman Lowry's book Turning fifteen on the Road to Freedom, My Story of 836 01:17:33,199 --> 01:17:39,039 the nineteen sixty five Selma Voting Rights March is appropriate for young readers and is 837 01:17:39,079 --> 01:17:55,840 available on Amazon. In Birmingham, Alabama, we have the privilege of spending 838 01:17:55,880 --> 01:18:00,359 an hour with the Bishop Calvin Wallace Woods Senior, perhaps the feistiest, most 839 01:18:00,359 --> 01:18:04,239 passionate ninety year old I'll ever meet. He told us about the march on 840 01:18:04,399 --> 01:18:09,880 Washington in sixty three, what it was like the day the Sixteenth Street Baptist 841 01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:14,880 Church was bombed and those four young girls were killed. Hearing his voice crack 842 01:18:15,279 --> 01:18:18,800 as he shared the pain he and others endured at the hands of Bull Connor, 843 01:18:19,159 --> 01:18:25,199 then Commissioner of Public Safety in Birmingham, was so powerful during the movement. 844 01:18:26,039 --> 01:18:30,960 The Lord brought different songs to us. Sometimes we didn't know what people 845 01:18:31,079 --> 01:18:38,520 gonna sing, but he always taught us to join in with those songs of 846 01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:44,439 heaven. Then he gave us un Let's begin with one we used to sing. 847 01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:50,319 I ain't gonna let nobody turn me around, turn me around. I'm 848 01:18:50,319 --> 01:18:56,840 gonna keep on a walking. I'm gonna keep on a talking. Mark it 849 01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:06,079 up to freedom land go. Let nobody turn me here around, turn me 850 01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:15,199 around, turn me round, Hang on a lit, nobody turn me here 851 01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:21,560 round. I'm gonna keep on a walking, keep on the talking, marching 852 01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:31,039 up the freedom that hang on a lit inju justice, Oh time mere round, 853 01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:38,720 No time me. Our group of twenty six was both white and Jewish, 854 01:19:39,319 --> 01:19:43,600 and it was evident that each of us felt the pain and applauded the 855 01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:48,680 courage of these civil rights heroes. We returned to our homes, changed and 856 01:19:48,720 --> 01:20:01,560 resolved to do more as the battle for voting rights continues. Thanks so much 857 01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:06,720 for listening to in this story my memoir style micro essays. I've written a 858 01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:12,039 full length book by accident, a Memoir of Letting Go, which is now 859 01:20:12,079 --> 01:20:15,600 available in paperback, as an e book and as an audiobook. You can 860 01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:19,560 purchase it online or at your favorite local bookstore. If they don't have it 861 01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:24,079 in stock, they can order it through Publishers Group West, a division of 862 01:20:24,279 --> 01:20:28,800 Ingram Again. It's By Accident, A memoir of letting Go by Joe Anne Green