WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:34.320 Welcome to the USA Think Tank Craigio with your host Alejandro Rohan. Hello, 2 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:42.159 and welcome to UFO Think Tank Radio. This is your host Alejandro Roja, 3 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:49.439 and I'm very happy to be here with you all today. I want to 4 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:52.960 start up with sorry, uh, you know, a little bit of sad 5 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:57.479 news. But I someone who needs some help. As you all know, 6 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:00.600 I started this show, and I used to live in Denver, Colorado, 7 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:03.599 so you can probably know where I'm going with this. Yes, unfortunately, 8 00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:10.480 a friend of mine, her daughter, was involved with the shootings and actually 9 00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:15.120 a mutual friend of this friend of mine. In fact, I think I 10 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:19.840 had Heidi on the show because she's a mutual friend of Stan and Lisa Romanek. 11 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:23.359 And in fact, you know, I had a show a year or 12 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:27.519 two ago where I brought in just witnesses, just third parties who said they 13 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:33.599 have experienced something around Stan Romanic and I'm pretty sure she was on that show. 14 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:37.640 But anyway, Heidi is just a beautiful person. If you're one of 15 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:41.599 the Colorado people, you know who she is. She's a wonderful person and 16 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:47.640 her daughter is as well. And unfortunately she was hurt really bad in the 17 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:53.000 shootings the other day. Why I mentioned this is because they could use some 18 00:01:53.079 --> 00:02:00.599 help. And if you go to the UFO Think Tank, Facebook or any 19 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:06.640 of the facebooks including Stan Romanex, Lisa Romanex, my other Alejandro Rojas on 20 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:13.599 my personal one, you'll be able to see some information there about Sarah and 21 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:16.639 how she's doing an update. She's doing much better. It was actually really 22 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:23.719 scary up until yesterday, really and now she's doing better. But you'll see 23 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:28.319 a donate now button there. If you can help out, that would be 24 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:34.560 wonderful. And and you know, especially for those of you who know the 25 00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:40.080 family, you can go see how they're doing. So I just wanted to 26 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:49.400 start up and mention that. Otherwise other news, last week, I had 27 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:54.960 mentioned the twenty five percent off for radio listeners for the Cosmic Exploration Conference. 28 00:02:55.080 --> 00:03:00.439 So really this is a huge discount, and this is it's going to be 29 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:04.240 your chance to register, so you'll want to do this. There's only like 30 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:07.840 a little more than a week left because I'm doing this discount till the end 31 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:13.439 of the month to help get things rolling as far as the things that need 32 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:16.000 to get taken care of. So really you're going to want to register as 33 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:23.280 soon as possible. Just use the code when you're checking out U T T 34 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:30.199 that is you T T and that talks. I have updated a couple of 35 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:36.039 them, and they're of course really exciting. For instance, psychologists professor of 36 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:40.199 psychologists run Western is going to be talking about the sociology of hidden events. 37 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:45.879 So essentially this is really interesting. In the eighteen hundreds, there were meteors, 38 00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:50.599 the meteorites that were happening, and people were denying that that happened. 39 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:53.319 You know, oh that's not true. You know how we all know how 40 00:03:53.520 --> 00:04:02.919 people can be that denying this phenomenon exist. So he examined that, he 41 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:11.240 examined more recent demonstrations of phenomenas which were proven to be real and how society 42 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:15.519 reacted. And then of course he examines the UFO phenomena and the state of 43 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:20.800 denial we're in. And this is a gentleman who himself does even though he's 44 00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:26.959 at Harvard Graduate got his PhD at Harvard, He you know, believes that 45 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:33.079 there is something to this phenomena and I he essentially subscribes to the extraterrestrial hypothesis. 46 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:39.759 But he's going to talk about how that relates to today and where we 47 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:46.839 are in the whole process of accepting you know, hidden events. So this 48 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.079 is going to be extremely fascinating amongst the other talks, which of course will 49 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:56.560 also be fabulous. In fact, Lee Spiegel's going to talk about something he 50 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:00.759 never has he was on the show of course last week. He's going to 51 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:15.600 get into the details about the UN initiative from the seventies because the UN actually 52 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:21.240 was looking to do some set up a UFO group. In fact, with 53 00:05:21.399 --> 00:05:26.040 Granada they actually passed the decision to set up a group, you know, 54 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:29.680 least talk about that part. But he's going to talk in detail about what 55 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:35.240 the scientists and the special witnesses involved had to say. So that's going to 56 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:42.079 be really great. Let alone all the other great speakers and a very rare 57 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:47.120 chance to meet this Belgian general on the brower to talk about the wave in 58 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:51.439 the nineties. So lots of good stuff. Check out the website cosmicex dot 59 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:57.360 com for the latest and then go ahead and register use the code utt and 60 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:03.360 you will get the phenomen little discount. So that's what's going on there. 61 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:09.240 Otherwise, UFOs in the news. I've been so busy and it feels like 62 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:15.000 there's so much going on that I haven't really noticed that there haven't really been 63 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:18.680 too many news stories in the last week. In fact, this is one 64 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:23.439 of the weeks with one of the fewest news stories, uh out there. 65 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:27.240 I've noticed. One of the new stories, at least something I wrote about 66 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.959 on the Huffington Post so you can be aware, is Thomas Jane. So, 67 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.439 Thomas Jane was the actor in the hung TV series. He was in 68 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:40.720 He was the lead in the Executionery. He played the comic book hero guy. 69 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:47.000 He was the what else was he in? He was in Deep Blue 70 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:55.600 if you saw that with these sharks and that killed people essentially, Hello cool. 71 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.360 Jay was on that movie too, So this is a he's a really 72 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.079 big name act he's a great actor. He's a lot of fun and all 73 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:04.759 the stuff that he's in. And I think I told you guys about this 74 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:10.639 before, how he's really into the topic, and how he retweeted my tweets 75 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:14.959 or tweeted me, you know, a while ago after the Moufon conference. 76 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.439 So I wrote a little bit about that because he has tweeted the conference. 77 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:20.000 So I've been in touch with him a little bit. He's excited about the 78 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:26.959 conference. He was looking for something with more scientists and academics, and so 79 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:30.439 was I obviously, and that's why I put together a conference. So Thomas 80 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.439 Jane, hopefully we'll make it. He's going to be shooting a movie of 81 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:38.319 course, in the fall, a busy guy hanging out with all the stars 82 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:43.120 in Hollywood. But if he can, he's going to make it. And 83 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:47.839 from what I hear from my friends, I told you guys last weekend about 84 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:55.639 a benefit that La Movefon and Orange County Moufon had for doctor Roger Lear and 85 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:00.439 Thomas Jane, I guess showed up there so to the LA one just to 86 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:03.319 show you how interested he is in this topic, which he is very So 87 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.120 that's pretty exciting. We'll possibly, if not probably have some movie stars at 88 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:16.000 the conference. Other news include and list people wrote about this. And here's 89 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:20.560 another story in the Telegraph in the UK, and this is the Edinburgh University 90 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:26.199 which they're talking about. You know. The stories read that they're offering a 91 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:31.079 degree on alien life and making it seem like a UFO's and aliens. It's 92 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:37.399 actually a free course that you can't take and it is called an Introduction to 93 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:46.200 Astrobiology and the Search for Extraterrestrial Life. So it does sound very very fascinating. 94 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:50.679 It sounds like a lot of fun, and it looks like, you 95 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:54.120 know, some SETI stuff along with the other sciences searching for extraterrestrial life, 96 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:58.600 but doesn't look like it's so much a UFO oriented, which would be kind 97 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:03.840 of fun. Also, of course, speaking of SETI, there is also 98 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:09.200 a story in Forbes about a project to look for lasers. So essentially these 99 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:16.559 guys are looking for flashes. So they're thinking perhaps that an extraterrestrial civilization out 100 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.320 there could be using lasers to communicate, and so we should look out there 101 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:24.679 for some lasers and see if they're trying to communicate with us. This is 102 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:31.559 an observatory in Sydney that they write about, and they write that actually, 103 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.159 in December two thousand and eight, they did have a spike that was anomalous 104 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:41.159 and the guy wrote down in the margins of the readout for this is this 105 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:46.279 EG And later when they went to look for this signal again, they were 106 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:56.120 unable to find it. Thus they concluded that they dismissed it as spurious. 107 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:01.960 This is the exact wording the scientist uses, because if they can't detect it 108 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:05.120 again, they can't be for sure that it is repeatable and it is extraterrestrial, 109 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:11.039 so they had to write that off. But a very interesting story by 110 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:16.600 Forbes. You'll need to check that one out. And another story is about 111 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:24.000 another English gentleman or an English academic, and this is out of London, 112 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:31.600 Oxford, and this is a scientist who says, essentially, he's just saying, 113 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:35.279 and people are paying attention, you know, and it's kind of interesting 114 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:43.000 just it's such a hot topic and academia and of course on television and everywhere 115 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:48.559 else. But he is saying that perhaps, or he bets that we will 116 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:56.200 find life, possibly even intelligent life, within the next century. So he's 117 00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:07.759 saying that most likely within the next century, we will discover life and even 118 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:13.039 possibly intelligence. Of course, many of you who listen to the show will 119 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:22.559 probably agree or at least of the belief that will probably just make that discovery 120 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:30.879 much more recent than that in the near future. And of course some of 121 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.279 you believe that we've already made this discovery, and perhaps you yourself have made 122 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:37.559 that discovery, and that would be very interesting email me the details. But 123 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:45.480 of course we have people on the show who have at least do believe they 124 00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:54.639 have met extraterrestrial civilizations themselves, and of course that's all very very interesting. 125 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:58.039 So that's some of the news. Of course, if you want to read 126 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:03.159 more about the news, you can go to Ufdailynews dot com and you can 127 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:07.240 go to the UFO news feed, and that's where you're gonna see daily updates 128 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:13.240 of the headlines out there, or you will be able to look at the 129 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:18.320 news on the front page. Of course that's updated occasionally, whereas the news 130 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:24.559 feed updated every day. Another story out there actually has to do with our 131 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:30.200 guest. Well, I forgot to tell you all about and this is exciting, 132 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:35.360 this is really cool. So last week we did our little forum on 133 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:41.080 Chase Brandon, the CIA guy, and Grant Cameron talked about a gentleman named 134 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:43.879 Robbie Graham, and of course I've talked about Robbie before also, and this 135 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:50.440 is a gentleman based out of the UK who runs a website called silver Screen 136 00:12:50.519 --> 00:13:01.279 Saucers and he is an expert on extraterrestrials and Hollywood and UFOs, so the 137 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:09.159 whole Hollywood perspective. He even has he's a doctoral candidate at the University of 138 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:18.120 Bristol, so he's researching a PhD in examining Hollywood's historical representation of UFOs and 139 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:24.759 potential extraterrestrial life, so he's examining it in a sociological way. However, 140 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:31.200 he is a firm believer as well that there are there is something to the 141 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:35.600 UFO phenomena. It sounds like, and we'll talk to him a minute that 142 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:41.519 he subscribes to the extraterrestrial hypotheses, but is open to other ideas as well. 143 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:46.679 So this is really interesting. He's an expert on Hollywood, which is 144 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:54.600 great, and being an expert in Hollywood, he has actually been familiar with 145 00:13:54.759 --> 00:14:01.799 Chase Brandon because Chase Brandon was CIA's Entertainment lays on, which meant that Chase 146 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.240 Brandon's job was to go work with movies and stuff like that. So we'll 147 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:07.080 talk to him about that. We'll talk to him how he got onto this 148 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:11.840 stuff, and we'll talk to him all about Hollywood and UFOs. And he's 149 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:16.200 got this great story up now, which I tweeted and put up on the 150 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.919 Facebook there, which is a little bit about Thomas Jane, but also about 151 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:26.440 other celebrities and UFOs and the kind of stuff I write about sometimes because it's 152 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.879 really interesting to me. I think it's a lot of fun when the cool 153 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:33.000 kids are, as he says in his story, coming out of the closet 154 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:37.399 on their UFO beliefs, which is happening more and more. What's going on 155 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:43.639 here? People? So let's talk to Robbie about all of this exciting stuff. 156 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:50.039 I am really excited to be able to talk to Robbie Graham from the 157 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:56.480 UK and the gentleman who runs Silver Screen Saucers. Hello, how are you 158 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:03.120 Alejandro? I'm good? Thanks, How are you good? Good? I 159 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.720 am really excited to be talking to you because of course we've kind of emailed 160 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:11.159 back and forth over the last probably a couple of years, and it's been 161 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.080 a lot of fun, and there's been all this interaction, so it's always 162 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:18.120 fun to finally be able to talk to someone live. Yeah, it's great, 163 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:24.240 Thanks very much. So getting into a little bit of your background, 164 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:30.360 you're currently a doctoral candidate, so you're working for your PhD and this is 165 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:35.320 for the University of Bristol at a very unique topic. So your PhD is 166 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:43.799 actually going to be around Hollywood's historical representation of UFOs and extraterrestrial life. Is 167 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:50.679 that correct? That's right, that's the topic. It's actually done through two 168 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:56.240 different departments. It's gone through the film department and it's also done through cultural 169 00:15:56.279 --> 00:16:02.639 studies, so I have two different advisors, one to oversee the cultural dimension 170 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:07.600 and one to oversee the film film side of things. So it's kind of 171 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:11.320 complicated, and it means I've got two people to answer two rather than one, 172 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:18.879 so I have to justify things especially well. But no, it's great. 173 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.039 It's it's been going on for a couple of years now. Actually, 174 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:27.840 I'm currently in a one year requested leave by absence from the pH D, 175 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:32.840 which they very kindly granted me in order to be able to write a populist 176 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:40.240 book on the subject of UFOs and Hollywood. So Bryce Sable and I got 177 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:44.320 in touch last year and we decided that we would start to work together on 178 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:51.159 a project looking at Hollywood and UFOs, which would be dual pronged. It 179 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:56.240 would consist of a book silver Screen Sources, Sorting factors from fantasy in Hollywood 180 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:00.440 UFO movies written by myself, and then that book as it's being written, 181 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:08.119 will be adapted by Bryce for a potential TV documentary series which will share the 182 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:11.920 name. So this is something that's going to be developing over the next year 183 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.480 or two, and yeah, hopefully that's all going to come to fruition. 184 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:21.920 The book's coming along nicely and I hope to have it finished by very early 185 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:25.519 next year. Great, well, that's really exciting and he's a perfect guy 186 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:30.759 to getting to partner up with on this. However, I guess getting back 187 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:34.839 to the University of Bristol, I would imagine that this was something in their 188 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:41.400 catalog where you could choose to go and do this, pursue this a degree. 189 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:45.839 I would imagine you proposed it, and if so, how did they 190 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.920 take that? What did they say? Well? Love, how most PhDs 191 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:53.680 work, I mean with PhDs is generally the case that the student will propose 192 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.880 the idea and they will have to pitch it and sell it essentially to the 193 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:04.960 apartment. And if the department deems it to be viable and will get go 194 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:10.240 ahead and you can you can go ahead and write your thesis. Of course, 195 00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:12.559 you, as I said before, you you have to undergo a lot 196 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:17.599 scrutiny during the writing process, planning process. I mean, you spend a 197 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:21.799 whole year really just planning, planning what you're going to do before you even 198 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:26.279 put pen to paper so to speak. Yeah, it was a should a 199 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:33.319 slightly controversial topic UFOs for obvious reasons. And that said, I have had, 200 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:38.960 you know, support, I've had to really make clear that this is 201 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:48.400 not necessarily a rather not strictly a thesis about UFOs. It's not looking at 202 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.519 it's not looking at solving the mystery of the UFOs. It's not seeking an 203 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:59.640 answer to the UFO riddle. It's looking at Hollywood's representations of an objectively real 204 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:07.200 phenomen regardless of what forces are behind that phenomenon. And it's looking at how 205 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.680 Hollywood ties that phenomenon to the idea of extraterrestrial life and visitation, and the 206 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:19.640 extent to which Hollywood's representations of UFOs and et life will actually impact our own 207 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:26.519 perceptions and expectations of first contact. So those are the things I'm interested in. 208 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:32.400 It's a largely cultural study. At the same time, it does encompass 209 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:36.079 the political dimension of the phenomenon as well, and it takes into account the 210 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:41.640 government's longstanding historical interest in UFOs and look at UFO secrecy, and it looks 211 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:48.279 at government involvement in the filmmaking process and the extent to which the Department of 212 00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:55.519 Defense and CIA have sought to influence the content of Hollywood ufoth in productions right 213 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.000 and culturally, I mean, or at least especially from a film perspective, 214 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:07.039 it seems to be a very valid topic because so many films are centered around 215 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:12.240 this topic exactly. There's been a boom, really an explosion in the popularity 216 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:21.119 of uffhone movies, of films that depict sxterrestrial visitation and first contact scenarios in 217 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:26.279 the past decades, since really late nineties and right through to present day, 218 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:30.480 with the likes of Battleship and Prometheus and The Watch which is coming up in 219 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:38.079 many many others. I've counted over forty titles that meet the criteria for my 220 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:41.920 PhD and that have been released just in the last ten years. So forty 221 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:47.079 ufone movies, major ufhone movies. Those are the ones that have received theatrical 222 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:51.400 release. I'm not looking at straight to video TV things. I'm looking at 223 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.319 big budget or medium bridget Hollywood productions. So just as you say there's been 224 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:00.759 about forty in the past decade, they're all listed on my blog, and 225 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.359 I will be looking at all of those in the book and in the PhD, 226 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.640 and so yeah, there's a lot to get your teeth into and then 227 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:11.559 you know, that's the same nothing of the hundreds that have been produced since 228 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:15.839 nineteen fifty. So yeah, it's absolutely a valid topic to look at from 229 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:19.640 a film studies perspected, very little has been written on this subject. Most 230 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:27.079 of what had been written relating to flying source of films has been really couched 231 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:32.440 in kind of Cold War studies, sort of looking at the idea of the 232 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:37.079 other on screen. You know that the blobs and the pods they represent communism 233 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:40.640 and fear of the other, and they represent fear of the bomb and teenagers. 234 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:45.960 But most people and whilst that's a valid reading of these many of these 235 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:48.519 films, and whilst that is the preferred reading of some of them, the 236 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:53.599 underlying inspiration for all of these films, let's not forget, was not teenagers 237 00:21:53.680 --> 00:22:00.200 or blobs or pods or the bomb. It was literally flying sources. Was 238 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.240 this flying source of craze that swept the United States and the world during the 239 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:07.039 late forties and into the fifties and throughout the Cold War and beyond. It 240 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:12.839 was these sightings of disc shaped objects of flying sources that really kind of fueled 241 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:18.359 Hollywood's screenwriters to produce this kind of material. Of course, then they laced 242 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:25.160 it with the sort of other readings and so so yeah, but I'm not 243 00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:29.440 so concerned the traditional film studies readings, And in fact, I'm going to 244 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:34.480 be suggesting that we really need to get to the court the core of of 245 00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:38.920 what has inspired these films. Then we need to sort of acknowledge that that 246 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:44.240 the UFOs are real. And lets you know, I kind of acknowledge that 247 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:47.359 very quickly and were so we can move past that fact. And I just 248 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.680 about got my supervisors to get on board with that. Really, you know, 249 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:56.519 we're not suggested the autos are lizard men or they're not. They're not 250 00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:03.000 you know, some kind of Independent day style invading force. They're not even 251 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:08.240 et or you know from from Spielberg's iconic movie. They are literally, just 252 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.240 when identified, playing objects in a strict ex sense. So let's look at 253 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.759 that first and then and then let's see what we project onto that phenomenon and 254 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:23.720 what part Hollywood plays in our in our understanding of expectations of what actually lies 255 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:30.279 got behind the phenomenon. So you had to be pretty motivated to be able 256 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.519 to tackle this, to be able to be courageous enough to probably approach the 257 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:38.680 university with this idea. What was it that motivated you to pursue this? 258 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:48.799 Excuse me? Well, I've been interested in UFOs going back to my teenage 259 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:52.559 years. I became very interested when I was about fourteen. I've always been 260 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:59.119 interested in weird scenes, ghosts and paranormal phenomena, but I suppose UFOs always 261 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.720 held particular for me. And then when I was about fourteen fifteen, I 262 00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:07.359 am just for some reason bought a book on the subject. I don't know 263 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.079 what compelled me to do it, probably the hypnotic for the cover. And 264 00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:15.319 it was actually Bill Hamilton's nineteen ninety six book Alien Magic, which is a 265 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:22.000 very thin volume and it makes for an entertaining read, but it's not particularly 266 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:25.799 scholarly. But for a fourteen year old boy, it was absolutely captivating and 267 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:30.759 it just hoogs me completely. And you know, from then I just bought 268 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:36.319 all the literature from all the big names and just consumed it very very quickly. 269 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:42.119 And I suppose I got to that age seventeen, sixteen, seventeen, 270 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.799 and I thought, it's just become so frustrating. Anyone who's ever looked at 271 00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:52.920 the subject for any amount of time, who's just becomes incredibly frustrated because you 272 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.440 feel a certain sense of powerlessness. What can I do about this? You 273 00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.599 know, even if it's true, even if it's weird, even if we 274 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:02.240 are being as it did, what can I do about it? Especially when 275 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:03.720 you're sixteen, seventeen years old, I suppose the answer is not a lot. 276 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:08.640 And so because you feel quite disempowered. And then, of course, 277 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.720 college got in the way, and I started to become obsessed with the film 278 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:17.839 as an academic pursuit, and so the UFOs kind of got put on the 279 00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:22.759 back burner. And then as I started to pursue my academic career, so 280 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:29.519 to speak, I gradually came back to UFOs by my early twenties, and 281 00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:33.359 I realized that I couldn't really forget about it because one thing or another would 282 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:41.480 keep dragging me back in. And so naturally, my interest in UFOs and 283 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:45.759 my passion for film merged. And by the time I, you know, 284 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:52.319 by the time I'd finished my master's degree and started thinking about PhD, I 285 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:56.920 you know, it made sense that I should do a PhD that combined the 286 00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:00.920 two interests. And so that's that's how it's come about. It seems completely 287 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.079 natural to do it for me. Yes, I was a little bit wary 288 00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:07.279 about whether or not it would be accepted. In fact, to be honest, 289 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:11.839 I was very surprised that the proposal was accepted. I felt that it 290 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:18.200 was a strong proposal. But again, when when you're dealing with with UFOs, 291 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:22.880 and when you're talking about the subject in a way that's not entirely abstract 292 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.759 and cultural, where you're actually starting to deal with nuts and bolts issues, 293 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:33.759 it becomes very tricky. So but thankfully they accepted it. And I am 294 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:37.720 still having to tread a very fine line with the approach that I'm taking, 295 00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:44.440 But you know, it's it's going ahead, it's going going well. And 296 00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:49.480 as I say, it's the thesis that I'm writing will will timately be translated 297 00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:52.559 into a into a populist book, which would be the full screen sources. 298 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:59.839 So the PhD might make for rather dry reading, as I'm sure most species 299 00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:06.599 do, will be rather more interesting. It's exciting that it is going to 300 00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:11.079 be in a book. Excited. I'm really excited about that. So in 301 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:18.400 your research, yeah, from when you started until now, I guess what 302 00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:22.640 how long has that been and how has your view on this topic? Changed? 303 00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:27.519 If it has well since since a teenager, or since I started the 304 00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:37.200 PhD, I since you started the PhD. My views haven't changed to great 305 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:41.160 extent. I suppose to change a little bit since I started the PhD. 306 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:47.759 My views, I mean since looking at somebjects obviously my back when I was 307 00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:52.240 the teenager, and my views have changed quite dramatically, But they haven't changed 308 00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:56.839 a great deal. Since I began the pH D. It's opened up more 309 00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.960 opportunities for me. I've had the chance to meet some very interesting people, 310 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:11.559 and so my view has changed slightly. I mean my I very rarely actually 311 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:17.160 express my personal opinion on the subject, to be honest, not even on 312 00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:19.880 my blog or an interview that I usually play the role of the academic and 313 00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:23.759 just kind of try and speak in strictly objective terms and splick to hard facts 314 00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:32.200 and intimate detail about you know, very specific historical cases. And but you 315 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:36.799 know, I think anyone who reads between the lines and anything I write will 316 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:41.839 probably detect that I am a proponent of the extraterrestrial hypothesis. I think that's 317 00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:47.200 the most valid hypothesis sort of for the phenomenon has reported over the years. 318 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:55.079 I do think that it goes Johns the et H. However, I think 319 00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:00.359 that the you don't have to think that the your government is involved in the 320 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:03.079 cover of Obviusly, the US government is involved in the cover up and has 321 00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:07.079 been for many decades, and historically they've treated the subject with great sensitivity and 322 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:12.680 their own documents to show this, So there's no great stretch there. But 323 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.640 I don't think that the US government has all the answers on this subject, 324 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:26.039 as many people would like to believe. I think that in many respects, 325 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.839 the US government is actually fairly clueless about UFOs, not in all respects, 326 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:37.359 acually, stress only in certain respects. I think that objects have been recovered 327 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:41.839 by the US military and of the militaries around the world. I believe obviously 328 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.400 they have the RCT knowledge of the subject. They have more knowledge than us 329 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:49.559 in certain respects, but probably not in others. And I think ultimately they're 330 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:56.200 probably clueless as to what's going on. How possibly can can anyone really understand 331 00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:03.640 the full complexity of this completely baffling phenomenon. You know, you're dealing with 332 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:11.640 apparently multiple agendas, You're dealing with things that really people struggle to put into 333 00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:17.079 words, that you know, so I think that if you're dealing with intelligence 334 00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:22.839 is from from one or more, you know, Star Systems, then I 335 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:27.160 don't know, it just seems it seems inconceivable that anyone can really have a 336 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:30.880 full picture of what's going on here, why we're being visited, what the 337 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.880 end goal is if there is one, you know, what's going to happen 338 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.480 today, what's going to happen tomorrow. And I think that overall there is 339 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:45.799 a great deal of uncertainty within the power circles who have influence on this subject. 340 00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:48.559 And I think that, well, we can get into the slater if 341 00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:55.839 it's relevant, but I do think that we're starting to see evidence of that 342 00:30:55.960 --> 00:31:03.839 uncertainty, and I think you're starting to see some steps towards preparing for worst 343 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:11.400 case scenarios on as as regards to disclosure if we use that term, Okay, 344 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:15.359 interesting, I'm glad we talked about that to kind of lay that down 345 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:19.960 that that'll be good going forward, kind of having your view. So then 346 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:25.839 having said that, I guess this might be a good chance to just get 347 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:30.680 right into some of what you've been writing about lately, which is Trace Brandon. 348 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:34.079 Of course, we had Grant Cameron and San Friedman and Li Spiegel. 349 00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:41.839 On last week I had a forum with those three and Grant talked about something 350 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:48.359 that you initiated really with this email to the CIA, where unfortunately they didn't 351 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:53.519 answer many of your questions. What were the natures of the questions you were 352 00:31:53.720 --> 00:32:02.640 asking and related to their response? Well, yeah, this is sent shortly 353 00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:08.160 after Brandon had made his public statements on the twenty third of June, when 354 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:13.960 he made him on Coast to coast. And I should note that I've been 355 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:19.960 looking at Brandon since two thousand and eight. He's figured in my research and 356 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:27.079 work for several years in his capacity as the former liaison to Hollywood for the 357 00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:31.119 CIA, And so anyone who's really looked at post nine eleven Hollywood propaganda will 358 00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:37.359 have come across Brandon's name. And most people who work in Hollywood today who 359 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:42.160 have spent any time in Hollywood, you know, at any level of seniority, 360 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:45.640 would have probably cross paths with Brandon, who's a very influential guy in 361 00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:50.160 Hollywood, right. And I was just going to say, that's one thing 362 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:52.039 I did want to ask about because when you ran across this, of course, 363 00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:57.920 and even now, there are people out there who unfortunately just haven't really 364 00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:04.160 bothered to do enough research or questioning his existence whether he really worked for the 365 00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:07.480 CIA. That for you was not in question because you already knew of his 366 00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:13.599 existence. Ask someone for the CIA with the entertainment. I mean, he's 367 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:19.640 probably one of the best known, what usually one of the best known CIA 368 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.960 operatives of the last thirty years. And it was his role to be. 369 00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:25.119 It was his. It was his, you know, it was his job 370 00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:30.039 to be to be that. He was the public face of the CIA for 371 00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:34.160 upon years. Vega ten years in his role as the elo Entertainment LEAs on 372 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:37.759 Officer. He was appointed to that role in nineteen ninety five. He was 373 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:42.319 answerable to the Director of Central Intelligence and to the head of the Public Affairs 374 00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.839 Office. But he had a great deal of autonomy within that role, and 375 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:52.799 he made contact throughout Hollywood, and he had a great deal of influence, 376 00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:57.480 and a lot of that influence, it has to be said, was covert, 377 00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:05.519 despite the fact that he was working supposedly open and public fashion. Most 378 00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.000 of the films he worked on he went uncredited. Most of the TV shows 379 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:13.920 he worked on, he went uncredited. So the video film so audiences would 380 00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:17.159 go into a film I wouldn't have any idea that Brandon had had any influence 381 00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:22.360 or the CEI had had any influence over that film at all. So it's 382 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:29.400 a little bit undemocratic and vague sinister because we don't really know the nature of 383 00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:31.320 the changes that he's made. But we do know that he's been involved in 384 00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:36.199 those films because he's admitted to it, but won't really elaborate on what he 385 00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:38.599 you know, what his involvement was, or he'll have information from the filmmakers 386 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:43.159 himself after the fact saying yes, Jas Brown in involved on you know, 387 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:45.480 he would phone us up and suggest this storyline or that storyline, or say, 388 00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:49.480 well, you know how back into this dialogue or take that dialogue out. 389 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.800 So it was all kind of a lot that was lost the books. 390 00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:57.840 So it's interesting from that perspective. But yeah, Brandon is the real deal. 391 00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.400 You know, he walks through walk he talks to talk, and he's 392 00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:06.679 he's a thirty five year veteran of the CIA. Twenty five years before the 393 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:10.440 twenty five years before his position at Yellow as a Yellow Sorry, he was 394 00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:16.440 in the elite clandestine Service. He you know, he's operated in dozens and 395 00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:21.239 dozens of countries around the world. You know, he's kind of like a 396 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:23.480 James Bond of self style, so he was only doing Bond type figure. 397 00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:29.039 And yeah, so he he reported to Bill Clinton, he was a presidential 398 00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:34.320 briefer. Certainly has walked in some very interesting circles throughout his career. So 399 00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:38.639 yeah, so that's why I played Oswell statements. In fact, I knew 400 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:43.039 that he was going to make these gossbel statements before he even made them. 401 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:51.920 Really yeah, but I can't really say how I know that. What I 402 00:35:51.960 --> 00:36:00.320 knew about I knew several weeks before. But he's he can be the leading 403 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:07.199 to this other people months in advance, but he hadn't. He wasn't so 404 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:12.239 explicit about it as he was on the coast to coast. So I was 405 00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.079 actually surprised at how explicit he was on the coast to coast, I'll have 406 00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:19.559 to say. But Brandon was of interested to me and my writing partner, 407 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:25.320 my frequent writing partner, doctor Matthew Alford, because he was a figure in 408 00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:34.280 the case of the screenwriter Gary Devaure, who disappeared in extremely suspicious circumstances in 409 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:38.400 nineteen ninety seven, and we wrote an article about this, and Matthew has 410 00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:43.000 made a film about it that should be coming out next year. It's a 411 00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:45.960 very very interesting case, indeed, and you can find more information on the 412 00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:51.000 internet. But Brandon was very good friends with Gary Devare, and we have 413 00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:53.159 reason to believe, very good reason to believe that Gary Deare himself a screenwriter 414 00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:57.920 who worked on film's farm of Schwarzenegger and Van Dam and all, that he 415 00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:01.960 was a cisset himself. So we've been looking at Brandon for a long time, 416 00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:07.559 and so when he made these statements, we were very, very interested. 417 00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:15.599 And the questions that we've put to the CIA after Brandon's interview were really 418 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.719 the questions, to be quite honest, that should have been asked during that 419 00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:22.840 interview. John Wells, who was interviewing Brandon, sat there in near total 420 00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:27.320 silence. Brandon just made drop these bombshells, and there was really no follow 421 00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:31.840 upon it. George Norrey put that to right to some extent in his follow 422 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:37.079 up interview that he conducted recently. But we wanted to put some direct questions 423 00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:39.880 to the CIA, and these same questions we put to Brandon, but he 424 00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:44.159 did not reply to us, despite the fact that he had already been in 425 00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:47.599 contact with my colleague Matthew Wilford prior to this, and had had a friendly 426 00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:51.960 exchange with him, But when we put these direct questions to him, he 427 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:54.800 didn't reply. So these are the questions that we put the CIA, and 428 00:37:55.239 --> 00:38:01.880 slightly more to CIA, we wrote was mister Brandon's interview on Coast to Coast 429 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:07.360 on June twenty thirty vement well, and were the comments he made during this 430 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:14.280 interview subject to prior approval by the CIA Publication Review Board TRB Two. Does 431 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:19.000 mister Brandon's assertion that that the CIA currently has in exocession proof of extra dress 432 00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:22.360 or visitation which we threat he claims to have seen while working in his capacity 433 00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:29.079 as ELO constitute a disclosure of classified information? If so, is he subject 434 00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:32.280 to legal penalties or other action as a result of this disclosure? If not, 435 00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:37.880 why not? Three? Is mister Brandon still under contract with the CIA 436 00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:39.800 in any capacity? We know the answer to that. By the way, 437 00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:44.760 he is still under contract with the CIA by his own admission. In fact, 438 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:54.039 he is currently the senior intelligence consultant to the Intelligence Division of THEAE Systems, 439 00:38:54.079 --> 00:39:00.119 which is the defense giant. So defense corporations actually have their own intelligence 440 00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:05.239 wings which may come as a supplies to many and these intelligence wings consult with 441 00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:10.360 various governments around the world our issues of security and procurement and things like that. 442 00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:16.760 And so Brandon is a headhunter. I really expect how this intelligence division 443 00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:22.039 of BAE Systems and in that capacity he has tried to skill to the US 444 00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:28.880 government and the CIA. Or are there any circumstances under which members of the 445 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:31.920 public, academics, journalists, for example, might be granted limited access to 446 00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:37.360 the historical intelligence collection, which is where Brandon claims to have see the Roswell 447 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.519 bots. In other words, is it possible for the public to independently verify 448 00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:46.679 mister Brannan's claims regarding Roswell materials in the HIC Number five, as an extension 449 00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:51.960 of the above question, what CIA communication policies are in place to provide the 450 00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:57.559 public with an opportunity to respond to and inquire about materials observed, excusing materials 451 00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:01.280 observed and statements made by former CIA opportunity concerning the roles all matter that may 452 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.480 be seemed to communicate classified intelligence or national security information in the public forum. 453 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.920 And number six, if I having used the public verification of mister Brennan's claims, 454 00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:14.400 I'm not available at this time. We asked that the CIA officially comment 455 00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:17.800 on his statements, either either confirming or denying their veracity, and then we 456 00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:22.960 specified that these questions are not in the context of his fictional book, but 457 00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.280 in the context of his factual statements that he made un quickly on Coast to 458 00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:30.159 Coast. Their response came a week later after I'd had to send them a 459 00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:36.800 reminder email, and they replied with exactly the same replied word for word that 460 00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:42.400 they gave Billy Cox of the Whold Tribune. And their reply was, which 461 00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:46.360 I don't have institution been unfortunately, but it was essentially they said, off 462 00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:50.039 the record, so obviously it's not of the record, and I've come back 463 00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:53.079 to say it, off the record, we will not answer any of your 464 00:40:53.119 --> 00:41:00.039 questions. Basically, we were and they kind of said that they can't answer 465 00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:04.039 this question for that reason. They can't answer this question for that reason, 466 00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:07.960 et cetera, et cetera. They said, on the record, you can 467 00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:10.239 use this one sentence, and then they gave us a sentence but we used 468 00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:15.199 in our article and that Billy Cox also used in his, which was basically 469 00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:17.880 that, oh gosh, I can't even what it was now, but it 470 00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:22.760 was. It was basically it was a very polite dismissal of Brandon's claims without 471 00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:28.400 directly branding and the liar. Uh And so yeah, you know, we 472 00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:30.519 haven't published what they've said to us off the record, but it wasn't anything 473 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:36.840 explosive. It was all just we cannot will not answer the questions. So 474 00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.280 it kind of does raise questions in itself. You know, we put these, 475 00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:45.639 we put these, We put these questions to the CIA's Public Affairs Office, 476 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:47.880 whose job is to liaise with the public and in an open way. 477 00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:54.480 So but everything you asked them, they reply with off the record and then 478 00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:58.400 they say, you know when, we won't answer your questions anyway, So 479 00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:01.239 they're not really a great deal of use. And I've made other inquiries to 480 00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:07.079 the c I A p a O on other issues prelate the UFOs, and 481 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:09.400 every response I've ever given me has begun with the phrase off the record. 482 00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.079 I think it's just standard procedure. I don't think there's anything inspiratorial about that. 483 00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:20.920 I didn't stand the procedure. I think they always reply with off the 484 00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:23.280 record. But it's just it's kind of useless really as a as a public 485 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:29.079 right, and why stay off the record when they really don't have an authority 486 00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:34.280 to uh, to enforce that you could, they don't have and they don't. 487 00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.239 Well, I think I think why they might do it, and it's 488 00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:43.519 a speculation, is that they are they know they can't enforce it obviously, 489 00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:46.280 as you say, but what they can do is pay attention to whether or 490 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:54.000 not they researcher heeds their requests, right so so so for example, I 491 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:58.440 would have published the off the record statements, which I haven't done, although 492 00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:01.960 I alluded to them there. They might take notice of that and then therefore 493 00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:07.199 be less reluctant to be, you know, cooperative with me in future. 494 00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:12.079 I'm just gonna still being so that I think they want to feel out individual 495 00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:15.760 searches as to how cooperative they can be. Right. Interesting, And their 496 00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:22.599 statement was they found nothing in the agencies holding to corroborate mister Brandon's specific claims. 497 00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:28.840 So, like you said, that's right, they didn't. And I 498 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:34.239 was gonna say, what did you see about your explanation of Brandon here in 499 00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:37.719 the history that you've given, which is really helpful because it's insightful for people 500 00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:43.320 who don't understand so much who he was and what he did is that is 501 00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:46.280 how public a figure he would be. I mean, what I think is 502 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:51.480 interesting is you can go to I put in, you know, the Entertainment 503 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:55.719 Layson officer for CIA, and a site comes up and they have a site 504 00:43:55.719 --> 00:44:00.159 called Entertainment Industry lays On and it's almost like a little Hey, if you're 505 00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:02.960 making a movie, give us a call and we'll help you with your movie. 506 00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:07.280 If it's about CIA, well we'll give you information about our procedures, 507 00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:10.760 tell you what you can use and can't, and we'll also give you tours. 508 00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:15.519 I mean, they're really enticing you. Hey, let us get involved 509 00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:19.239 with what you're doing. So I'm sure a lot of movies must have done 510 00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:25.079 that, and so well. The CIA involvement in Hollywood goes back decades, 511 00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:30.519 goes back to the nineteen fifties, but their involvement prior to nineteen ninety five 512 00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:37.360 was covert, and it wasn't until nineteen ninety five that they decided that because 513 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:45.360 the media representations of the agency had for so long been so negative, what 514 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:51.599 they decided to do was to try and put that to rights by encouraging the 515 00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:59.599 entertainment industry to openly thea's kind of in a mutual way with the agency in 516 00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:02.800 order to who kind of want well, in order to from the CIA's perspective, 517 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:08.480 in order to put out a very positive, flattering image of the CIA 518 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:13.280 in order to boost recruitment and retain personnel, which is much the same as 519 00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:16.400 what the Department of defensers in Hollywood. The their goals in Hollywood officially are 520 00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:22.920 to boost recruitment and retain personnel through positive portrayals of what they do. So 521 00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:29.000 it's kind of they don't call it propaganda, but it is propaganda. Although 522 00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:35.199 it's it's it's propaganda that can only be achieved with the complicity of Hollywood. 523 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.519 It's not forced upon Hollywood. You know, they sign, they sign a 524 00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:45.239 contract. It's worrying how many how many filmmakers just do this without batting an 525 00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:47.440 eyelid, you know, yeah, let's sign a contract with the Department of 526 00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:52.320 Defense, to sign a contract with the CIA, you know, without really 527 00:45:52.360 --> 00:45:54.840 giving mu support to what effect that will have on their film in terms of 528 00:45:54.920 --> 00:46:00.320 artistic integrity. And because with the do o D they sign away well a 529 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:07.360 great deal really that the Depominent Defense has huge script control throughout you know, 530 00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:12.639 from from from day one and they can control things right through to through to 531 00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:16.199 the editing stage and even into the marketing stage. The same as with the 532 00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:21.559 CIA, although the CIA has less to offer filmmakers and the Department of Defense 533 00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:24.440 because the d o D offers filmmakers, you know, cool tanks and helicopters 534 00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:29.840 and troops and that boosts the reality, to boost the realism of the film. 535 00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:31.960 But it also cuts the cost for the filmmakers because they don't have to 536 00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:36.960 create create all that stuff in the computer. They can choose it literally, 537 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:39.800 But the CIA don't have all that stuff. What they can what they can 538 00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:45.559 offer really is just advice, and they can offer access to their language headquarters, 539 00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:50.480 uh and to you know, they can film the CIA ceel on the 540 00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:52.039 ground and it just adds to the realism and things like that and they get 541 00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:58.719 but but really what they're offering is advice. They're offering one or more CIA 542 00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:04.119 personnel to present throughout the shoot and the script writing process. Really they try 543 00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:06.840 to exert as much influence as they can be for the script is even written. 544 00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:09.559 They like to buy their own admition. They like to try and mold 545 00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:15.440 ideas before end is put to paper, so that they you know, they 546 00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:19.079 know what kind of film they're getting involved with and what the end product will 547 00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:22.920 be, so they are lefinitely in that capacity. They're free to to suggest 548 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:28.039 changes. The filmmakers don't have to go along with those changes. They can 549 00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:30.400 reject them, but if they do reject them, then the CIA will pull 550 00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:34.920 out and they will lose their support. So essentially they do have to you 551 00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:37.199 know, they do have to go with those changes, and in almost all 552 00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:43.760 cases, all filmmakers do go just you know, they take on board the 553 00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:46.840 recommendations are made to them by by the state, right, and so you 554 00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:52.360 get a huge influence from from the government in Hollywood. So and we'll get 555 00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:54.880 more into that, but kind of getting back to what you've been writing about 556 00:47:55.280 --> 00:47:59.480 in this and kind of along the line to what Grant has been writing. 557 00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:02.960 Given what you have just told us, I mean, when I read your 558 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:08.840 stories, that looked like you guys were certainly of the opinion that this was 559 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:15.039 and you wrote this in your questions, that they're most likely was some sort 560 00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:22.199 of collaboration in that Chase had let the CIA know that he was going to 561 00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:28.960 come forward with these statements. And you know, from an outsider's view, 562 00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:34.719 such as mine, and I think a lot of the public you would be 563 00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:37.239 like, well, you know, not necessarily. I don't know why that 564 00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:42.880 would happen, But he could have been independently doing what he's doing. But 565 00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:46.519 given like what you've just explained, where it's his job to kind of vet 566 00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:53.960 what is publicly being said about the CIA inside of the entertainment industry, he 567 00:48:54.199 --> 00:49:00.840 in particular would have a sensitivity around what would be going out being said about 568 00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:06.000 the CIA, and he would then because I get this feeling he's kind of 569 00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:07.480 playing dumb about this. Oh, I didn't know it would be such a 570 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.199 big deal. Well, he had to have known, and he would have 571 00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:15.159 been the person to best know it would be a big deal, and that 572 00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:19.880 he probably should get that information okay before he said something. Now I can 573 00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:29.760 see from your perspective much better. Chase Brandon knew well in advance the fallout 574 00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:34.239 of his statements. He knew what would happen, he knew the media reaction, 575 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.559 he knew how it would all play out, and he knew you know 576 00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:42.840 that he would be faced with difficult questions. But he was going to make 577 00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:46.000 these statements regardless, and he's continued to make these statements despite the fact that 578 00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:51.800 the CIA has officially and naturally dismissed his claims. I mean, what else 579 00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:55.280 are they going to do. They can't confirm them. So but despite the 580 00:49:55.320 --> 00:50:00.079 fact that they have dismissed his claims, he's still making these claims and he's 581 00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:05.440 gone more mainstream with his claims. He gave up interview just last week to 582 00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:10.599 BBC Radio UH and they were much more direct in their questioning of him, 583 00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:15.519 and it was quite interesting. But what you're seeing in his interviews is that 584 00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:20.119 he is consistently putting across three or four points, and it seems that that's 585 00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:23.760 what he's trying to do here. He's trying to hammer home two or three 586 00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:30.960 or four points that he wants people to accept. One Roswell happened. It 587 00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:34.320 was real, it was extraterrestrial. There is a craft or there was a 588 00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:37.679 craft rather and that's the key. That's the key, thinking that there was 589 00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:44.119 a craft, there were bodies. Two. Don't blame the CIA. It 590 00:50:44.199 --> 00:50:46.000 was the Air Force who covered it up, which is true. Well, 591 00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:51.440 you know, to an extent, CI I would have been involved obviously after 592 00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:54.480 the fact. CIA wasn't in existence at the time the OSS was. But 593 00:50:54.719 --> 00:51:00.400 CIA would have become involved after the fact. Uh, but he said, 594 00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:02.320 don't blame the CIA. They weren't involved. And this is a crime of 595 00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:05.800 the past. If there is a crime at all, is a crime of 596 00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:08.440 the past. It's a crime that rests with people who've been in their grades 597 00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:14.760 for decades. No one in the CIA today currently really understands the implications of 598 00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:20.679 significance of what happened. It was well, the evidence, if it exists 599 00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:24.039 anywhere in its physical form, is kind of lost under sixty five years worth 600 00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:29.800 of storage dust. And you know, it's just a vague institutional memory now. 601 00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:32.480 And it's kind of like, so if the do do hiss the fan 602 00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:37.599 regards, you know, some kind of UFO events in the future, don't 603 00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:39.639 point to the CIA and say you knew about rolls up, because yes, 604 00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:44.000 we knew that, we didn't really understand it, and we weren't the one 605 00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:47.000 who initiated the cover up. We were just you know, we only had 606 00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:51.679 very limited information about it. And no one really knows what's going on either 607 00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:58.039 one that this is the absolutely bizarre scenario that he's putting out of and obviously 608 00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:02.519 it's the most historically significantly together. No one really pays that much attention to 609 00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:05.599 it, and no one really understands it. It's just kind of lost, 610 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:07.760 lost in the storage warehouse, like in Raiders of All Stark, which is 611 00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:12.800 what he keeps saying, keeps trying to conjure this image of this this disc 612 00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:15.840 somewhere probably packed up under a million boxes in a story in you know, 613 00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:20.079 Hunger eighteen somewhere, but that no one. But the point is is that 614 00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:23.679 there's no active cover up. It's not an ongoing effort to deceive the public. 615 00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:27.400 It's just something that no one really understands and knows about, and the 616 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:30.000 few people who do know about it don't really know what to do with it. 617 00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:34.039 So that's that's the other point he's putting across. The other point of 618 00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:37.239 the different point he's putting across throughout all of this is that the CIA is 619 00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:45.639 entirely cuture, utterly uncorruptible. You know, it's it's the savior of of 620 00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:51.000 of America and of mankind. And I wish you know what he what he 621 00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:53.000 was employed to do is the public place of the agency is to put that 622 00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:58.440 image across. So he's selling that image as well. But he and then 623 00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:00.960 he's you know, he's saying yes, what happens. Those are real, 624 00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:06.440 but really there is no active cover up of it anymore. And so it's 625 00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:07.880 kind of like, you know, you could look at it as a limited 626 00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:14.280 hangout, this idea where certain information is disclosed in a very controlled way, 627 00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:20.639 in a way that best serves the agency controlling it. Uh, you know, 628 00:53:21.400 --> 00:53:23.679 perhaps with the expectation that more might be disclosed down the road. But 629 00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:25.800 for now, this is going to have to do, and this is the 630 00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:30.599 way we're going to do it. It's difficult to say, I couldn't. 631 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:35.760 I can't say conclusively what what is motivating Brandon here. I can say with 632 00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:40.559 a high degree of confidence that he is not acting autonomously. He will absolutely 633 00:53:40.599 --> 00:53:49.039 not have gone on radio and made those unequivocal, unequivical statements without first of 634 00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:52.760 all giving a heads up to his his pals at the CIA and also to 635 00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:59.039 his his employees at THEA Systems, you know, the Defense Giant. I 636 00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:05.960 mean, how I just imagine if you're if you're the CEO BAS Systems, 637 00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:08.559 and you wake up on the you know, the twenty sixth or whatever of 638 00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:14.000 June twenty twelve, and you see that you're your your senior intelligence consultant has 639 00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:17.199 just declared Roswell to be an extraterrestrial event, right, but usos are real, 640 00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:20.360 And I mean, what are you going to do. You're going to 641 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:22.159 say, well, why are you're going to be not surprised because he's already 642 00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:25.000 given you the heads up and you've given him permission, or you've actually told 643 00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.119 them to say in the first place, you know what people that you're associates 644 00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:30.840 to have orchestrated this in the first place, you're not going to be surprised. 645 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:32.920 Or two you're going to think, oh my god, he's a completely 646 00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:36.760 canon or he's insane. We're gonna have to fire him. Well, Finry, 647 00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:40.400 I know he hasn't been fired. And you know, regardless of his 648 00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:45.800 current position at BAE, he is still tied to still and if he still 649 00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:51.519 keeps close company on a personal level with Cia top Brass. He was good 650 00:54:51.519 --> 00:54:55.519 friends with d Cis for years. It's his world. He's the only world 651 00:54:55.559 --> 00:55:00.280 he knows. He you know, you never really leave the agency when you've 652 00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:02.519 been in it for that long at the right level, and but that's his 653 00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:06.480 world, and you don't all of a sudden and he knows how sense to 654 00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:08.679 youfhoe are of anyone who's ever read a book on the subject or seen an 655 00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:13.880 episode of The X File knows how sense of your foes are. And so 656 00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:19.280 he's not going to go on radio and make those unequivocal statements without first of 657 00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:27.760 all, having had approval from either CIA, Top Brass or some of the 658 00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:31.480 control groups somewhere. It's interesting too, especially when you outline exactly what he's 659 00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:36.039 saying. I say, I said he was playing dumb, and I don't 660 00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:40.400 mean that, you know, as I phrase to call him names, rightything, 661 00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:45.519 And he's kind of he's playing innocent, which is exactly kind of like 662 00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:49.880 you're describing what he's trying to pursue, perceive the CIA as is kind of 663 00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.320 innocent in all of this. You know, hey, you know what was 664 00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:54.679 the air force that did all of this cover up? Which is kind of 665 00:55:54.760 --> 00:56:02.159 interesting. And he's careful in sticking to these points that don't contradict, which 666 00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:05.800 it does seem to me, at least from listening to him, that he 667 00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:10.199 is well versed in a lot of the riswell the details of the investigation. 668 00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:15.719 And it's one of the things I wanted to ask in like last week, 669 00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:19.360 was do you see any holes and problems with your research and what he's saying, 670 00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:23.719 And he said no, because he has been careful to not add anything 671 00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:30.000 to the story that is certainly something that can be dismissed or is outside of 672 00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:36.079 the realms of what's part of the research is you know exactly what to say. 673 00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:39.000 And if you listen to his interviews in fault and listen to them second 674 00:56:39.039 --> 00:56:42.440 and a third time, which I've done, and I know there's a done 675 00:56:42.679 --> 00:56:49.119 like Grant and others, they are fascinating. He's a master at what he 676 00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:53.320 does. He really knows how to play the media, how to construct a 677 00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:59.360 sentence in order that the question that you've asked is completely lost within seconds and 678 00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:02.079 forgotten that lost it, and then he'll come back and answer the question that 679 00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:07.639 he wants to answer, just much like a politician. Right, he knows 680 00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:14.199 exactly how to handle the media. And yeah, but he nevertheless, he 681 00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:17.119 is in a difficult position, and he must have known that it was going 682 00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:21.280 to get a bit tricky. But he is in a difficult position because now 683 00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:25.639 people asked us him to us slightly more pressing, more complex questions about the 684 00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:30.760 nature of these claims and also about the legal consequences of those claims Billy Cox 685 00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:35.159 for an excellent piece just to get the days ago on his blog, you 686 00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:39.239 know, suggesting that Brandon be subpoenaed and an investigator to these claims. I 687 00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:44.760 mean absolutely, I mean these are remarkable claims, but because of the laughter 688 00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.760 and surrounding UFOs, it's really just pushed to the side, and you know, 689 00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:52.960 no one really pays much attention to it. Steve Bassis currently got his 690 00:57:52.960 --> 00:58:02.079 his disclosure petition online. Students his Investigate Brandon's claims petition online in the context 691 00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:07.039 of the Roswell incident, and it points out, of course that the Brandon's 692 00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:13.599 statements directly contradict the White House's of official policy on on the UFOs, which 693 00:58:13.639 --> 00:58:16.119 is that to date, there has never been any evidence collected by the U 694 00:58:16.119 --> 00:58:21.760 S Government which suggests that the UFOs are extraterrestrial and extraterrestrials have ever business of 695 00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:24.000 us. That's the official statement put out by the Abamon in the strass I 696 00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:28.039 believe was it last year or the this year? Last year? I think, 697 00:58:28.199 --> 00:58:30.559 And you know, so they're on the record with that now, and 698 00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:34.719 that's what Steve Bassett's a petition last year a cube if nothing else, and 699 00:58:34.760 --> 00:58:37.440 so based on that position. Now you can say, well, hang on 700 00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:39.760 a minute. You're saying there's no evidence, yet one of your former high 701 00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:45.960 ranking guys, decorated, highly respected CIA official, actually says that you do 702 00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:50.440 have evidence, and that evidence is sitting as we speak in a historical intelligence 703 00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:55.840 collection at the CIA. It's so show us, it does very difficult questions. 704 00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:00.760 So I don't think that's heard the last to Brandon that I think I 705 00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:07.400 think there's more to come. I don't think we'll have anything particularly explode, 706 00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:12.119 anything more explosive than he's already said, but I do think it will hear 707 00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:15.760 them also, of thing, what I think, what I've said previously as 708 00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:21.360 to what this is just my take on it. I can't back this up. 709 00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:27.639 My my feeling on this is that Brandon is acting under orders and the 710 00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:35.239 goal here is partly limited hangout, partly disinformation, and the haut mean that 711 00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:37.719 term no excuse me, excuse me, so limited hangout is the relief of 712 00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:45.679 it. It's like an intelligence term. Is the limited release of information sensitive, 713 00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:52.840 potentially explosive information that you put out there to the public because you fear 714 00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.840 that there may be a greater disclosure to come, which could be more damaging 715 00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:01.360 in order to control. It's basically like a controlled leak, a very controlled 716 01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:06.039 leak, and it's spun in such a way that it kind of absolves the 717 01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:12.800 agency responsible of any wrongdoing. And so there's that element to it. So 718 01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:16.199 Brandon's sort of confirming to people that Roswell was real and it was alien And 719 01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:19.760 I mean, you know, we didn't necessarily need Brandon to tell us that, 720 01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:22.599 because there's a great deal of evidence suggest that anyway. So based on 721 01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:27.760 that apparently truthful statement that he's made, what he's hoping to do is gain 722 01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:30.639 our trust. And this is also part of the limit to tang Out as 723 01:00:30.639 --> 01:00:34.719 well. The person who leaks the information is expected to gain the public's trust 724 01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:39.519 so that they can then control our perceptions in the long run. So by 725 01:00:39.639 --> 01:00:42.280 making that statement, a lot of people go, well, he must have 726 01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:46.280 telling the truth. And indeed, Grant Cameron's current opinion poll that he's got 727 01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:51.760 online suggests that most people believe that Brandon is telling the truth as he knows 728 01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:57.400 it. So he's already gained people's trust. So what we'd like you to 729 01:00:57.400 --> 01:00:59.400 do then is to believe what else he has to say in the future, 730 01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:05.280 be as a genuine whistleblowers as an autonomous leader. But I don't believe he 731 01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:07.880 is at all. I believe that this is part of a much more sophisticated 732 01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:14.320 operation here, And the bigger goal I think is yes, Brandon wants people 733 01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:17.159 to read his book, but not strictly for commercial purposes. As a pointed 734 01:01:17.199 --> 01:01:22.920 out before, I don't think Brandon needs to be worrying about money. If 735 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:28.400 he's a senior intelligence consulting for multi billion dollar defense corporation, he's going to 736 01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:30.639 be earning probably more in a month than what he would earn in a year 737 01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:36.920 off his book if his books all the exceptionally well, so it's not a 738 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:43.880 huge I don't think there's a huge financial motivation behind the book. But I 739 01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:46.760 think the book is political. Put the motivation as political, and the book 740 01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:52.159 was, as a matter of fact, vested by the CIA. They checked 741 01:01:52.159 --> 01:01:55.760 it and asked him to change material that was contained in the book. Brandon 742 01:01:55.800 --> 01:02:00.360 has said that the book contains real material, real information, excuse me, 743 01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:05.360 and he's insisted that people read the book quote between the lines, and that 744 01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:07.400 there's a great deal of fact to be found in the book what he wants. 745 01:02:07.400 --> 01:02:10.519 But he's basically said obviously it's had to be published as fiction in order 746 01:02:10.519 --> 01:02:14.320 for it to be vetted by the CIA, because is not going to publish 747 01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:17.800 it a fact. But what he wants to do, he wants people to 748 01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:22.639 do is read the book as fiction, as fact disguised the fiction, if 749 01:02:22.679 --> 01:02:25.280 that makes sense. He wants people to see it as the real deal. 750 01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:34.239 And I think that is that that's the that's the goal, and the book 751 01:02:34.599 --> 01:02:39.159 is actually fiction. I think that the book which I've read, is it's 752 01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:44.960 just a paranoid fantasy. It's disinformation. But people will read it a fact 753 01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:50.039 now or largely factual, based on on his statements regarding ro as well. 754 01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:52.239 And that's the danger. I think people are going to pick up the book. 755 01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:53.599 It's going to sell really well, and people are going to go, 756 01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:55.880 oh my god, this is what's really going on because this guy told us 757 01:02:55.880 --> 01:02:59.719 now, and so we know that we know exactly how the CIA has being 758 01:03:00.440 --> 01:03:02.599 we know, you know, you know how we look covered up, we 759 01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:07.920 know what the agendas are at play here, and you know, as far 760 01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:09.719 as the books concerned, I think it's I think it really is fiction. 761 01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:14.559 I think it's fantasy, but Brandon wants us to read it as fact, 762 01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:17.000 and indeed the CIA wants us to read it fact because they betted the d 763 01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:22.639 thing getting worked up because it just annoys the hell out of it. Right, 764 01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:25.719 Well, there's some really good points there. And given that you have 765 01:03:27.360 --> 01:03:34.840 seen what Brandon's involvement has been in the entertainment industry in the past, what 766 01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:39.079 do you think if he is, you know, working with the CIA, 767 01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:44.840 what do you think they're doing here? Do you think they're trying to control 768 01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:50.239 the story the UFO kind of mythology, or do you think they are I 769 01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:54.199 think Grant was kind of thinking maybe they're trying to slowly disclose to get the 770 01:03:54.280 --> 01:03:59.599 truth out, But obviously, like what you're saying there also there is some 771 01:03:59.719 --> 01:04:04.039 not non truth here. I think that as far as and this is what 772 01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:11.000 I'm kind of proposing in my in my academic work, is as far as 773 01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:19.559 the government's interest in managing media representations of your both it's not so much about 774 01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:27.360 debunking or acclimating as it is about perception management. And it's so it's not 775 01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:30.320 so black and white necessarily, And I think you know, a lot of 776 01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:31.840 people are confused. They'll sort of say, well, this film, you 777 01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:34.480 know, this project seems to be acclimating us, you know, the Good 778 01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:38.320 Life Soviet For example of Robert em Andega case of the seventies, it seemed 779 01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:40.679 to be acclimating us. For the Ward Kimball case of the Disney one of 780 01:04:40.719 --> 01:04:43.920 the fifties, you seem to be efforts to acclimate us to us a reality, 781 01:04:44.639 --> 01:04:46.920 but then others seem to be trying to debunk the subject. And how 782 01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:50.079 do we account to this? It's not you know, the phenomenon itself is 783 01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:58.559 constantly evolving and constantly changing, and the perceptions of those in control in government 784 01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:01.559 are also changing and ship you know, constantly shifting as the phenomenon evolves, 785 01:05:01.719 --> 01:05:08.920 and so their approach with God's to media is also changing. So we're not 786 01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:14.440 just seeing debunking or demystifying, le or acclimating. You're actually just seeing a 787 01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:18.760 more subtle program of perception management. It's always constantly trying to tweak how we 788 01:05:18.880 --> 01:05:25.559 perceive this phenomenon. You can't. Ultimately, it's impossible to debunk UFOs through 789 01:05:25.599 --> 01:05:29.599 media, and the CIA would have realized this very quickly in the nineteen fifties 790 01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:33.880 because you know, how do you debunk something that continues to spectacularly manifest itself 791 01:05:33.920 --> 01:05:38.320 around the world on a daily basis. You can't debunk it. People know 792 01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:41.760 it exists, people keep seeing it, people keep recording on cameras and documenting 793 01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:44.960 it. It obviously exists. So you can't debunk it. But what you 794 01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:49.159 can do is manage how people perceive the phenomenon, and you manage it according 795 01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:55.960 to your own interests. And so that's the CIA's interest in manipulating media. 796 01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:59.559 As far as your fos are concerned, it's about perception management, and it's 797 01:05:59.599 --> 01:06:01.679 never it's not necessarily to a cut, whether it's acclamation or debunking, and 798 01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:05.360 often it can be both. Of course, disinformation, as we know, 799 01:06:05.400 --> 01:06:11.400 includes both fact and fiction in order to make it effective. So so Brandon's 800 01:06:11.480 --> 01:06:15.760 core statement here it was all was real. I don't think many people who've 801 01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:18.719 looked at you know, who have looked at the case would dispute that. 802 01:06:19.559 --> 01:06:23.000 And there's a great deal love and suggested that there was, that there were 803 01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:27.440 non human entities involved in that, in that recovery. So Brandon's kind of 804 01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:34.159 confirming that, and I see that that allows to trust him and it puts 805 01:06:34.239 --> 01:06:39.440 him in a position of authority. And what happens then is that we are 806 01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:43.239 more inclined to believe what he has to say about the UFO subjects in the 807 01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:48.239 future, and we're more inclined to accept that his book is actually fact labeled 808 01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:51.800 to fiction. And I think that's dangerous because I do think that the book 809 01:06:51.880 --> 01:06:56.159 is is real disinformation. I think so if if you want to break it 810 01:06:56.199 --> 01:07:00.119 down, I suppose I view his statement about Roswell on Coast to interview and 811 01:07:00.280 --> 01:07:08.119 to the interviewers as being the limited hangout, partial disclosure in a very safe 812 01:07:08.119 --> 01:07:15.519 way, and his book is is uh is another another issue entirely, but 813 01:07:15.679 --> 01:07:18.400 his statements are made to actually encourage you to read the book, and then 814 01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:21.760 what the c I wants you to understand about the phenomenon is in the book 815 01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:30.760 got cham so all very complicated, so which kind of makes sense because what 816 01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:34.639 what I'm thinking is, of course, is CIA is also kind of if 817 01:07:34.679 --> 01:07:42.960 this is a concerted effort, that it is just more than Brandon that they're 818 01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:47.239 also kind of trying to make their spin in that it's almost like they're they're 819 01:07:47.239 --> 01:07:49.880 a great maybe the air Force, you know, they've got so many leaks, 820 01:07:49.880 --> 01:07:54.679 there's so much information coming out that the airpace realize it. Yeah, 821 01:07:54.760 --> 01:07:57.840 yeah, it they can't contain it, and so they're already doing their own 822 01:07:57.920 --> 01:08:00.119 damage control to say, you know, so if this does come out, 823 01:08:00.159 --> 01:08:03.320 if something does come out, CIA can still wash their hands there. It'll 824 01:08:03.320 --> 01:08:08.320 still look like the good guys. That's it. It's about constantly covering their 825 01:08:08.360 --> 01:08:12.519 backs, you know. And all of the agencies, all of the branches 826 01:08:12.559 --> 01:08:15.640 of the military intelligence, our practice in any government, are all actually remarkably 827 01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:20.199 self serving. They're not. You know, the Air Force couldn't care less 828 01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:24.760 if the CIA was lynched over this subject, and the CI I couldn't care 829 01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:27.720 less if the Air Force was esp Actually the way it's always been, these 830 01:08:27.800 --> 01:08:30.039 agencies are both self serving. They often don't share information with each other, 831 01:08:30.760 --> 01:08:34.640 and they're kind of like states within states, especially the CIA. So the 832 01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:39.199 CIA doesn't care about blaming the Air Force for ogwell you know, at the 833 01:08:39.239 --> 01:08:42.760 Air Force's problem. The CIA wants to cover its own back. And I 834 01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:45.840 think that's what you're seeing here. It is constantly about making sure that the 835 01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:50.319 public proceeds is phenomenon in a way that best it's them in the event that 836 01:08:50.960 --> 01:08:55.920 the crap should hit the fan. And I do think that that you're seeing. 837 01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:58.359 Going back to what I was saying earlier, I think there are signs 838 01:08:58.359 --> 01:09:03.760 that there's preparedness that now, in whatever form it might take, because what 839 01:09:03.800 --> 01:09:08.520 we're seeing, what we've been seeing over the last four or five years, 840 01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:15.359 is many, many, many countries governments around the world starting to release unmass 841 01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:20.039 thousands and thousands of UFO files. So you've had the UK, France, 842 01:09:20.680 --> 01:09:25.840 You've had Canada and New Zealand, half a dozen South and Central American countries, 843 01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:32.199 and all these files are coming out, and military officials, government officials 844 01:09:32.239 --> 01:09:38.239 have started to make statements on the issue in a very open way, if 845 01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:42.760 not explicitly stating that it's extraterrestrial, although some military officials have stated that from 846 01:09:42.800 --> 01:09:49.000 Central and South American countries. You're starting to have publicly accessible UFO investigations websites 847 01:09:49.119 --> 01:09:53.520 set up in Chile, for example, and you've got that France has had 848 01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:58.079 once so many years. Now what you're seeing is an effort on the part 849 01:09:58.079 --> 01:10:02.640 of each of these respective governments too appear to the public to be open and 850 01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:08.600 to be competent with regards to FOS. What the nightmare scenario for any government, 851 01:10:09.159 --> 01:10:11.520 especially the US government, because they have the most to lose, because 852 01:10:11.520 --> 01:10:15.520 they's the most to hide is that tomorrow morning, you know, a UFO 853 01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:20.000 decides to show up mothership to dial over over New York. Right, it 854 01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:25.560 hasn't happened to date, obviously, But if you're if you're in the national 855 01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:28.600 security apparatus, it's your job to be worried about such a thing, you 856 01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:30.920 know, especially if you're keep keeping close tabs on UFOs. You're going to 857 01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:34.439 have to plan for that. No matter how unlikely it turns out to be, 858 01:10:35.239 --> 01:10:38.279 you have to at least have that injured in the back of your mind. 859 01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:41.319 And I imagine that's the kind of scenario that keeps people up at night. 860 01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:45.199 And so what do they do? How can they how can they prepare 861 01:10:45.239 --> 01:10:47.680 for that? Well, all they can do really is is try to manage 862 01:10:47.720 --> 01:10:53.640 how people perceive the phenomenon beforehand, and they can try to put out an 863 01:10:53.640 --> 01:10:59.760 image of themselves that it's not going to get lynched, you know, when 864 01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:03.439 when im falls apart. So what you're seeing is in these other countries, 865 01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:06.479 as they say thousands of five being released, we're just doing several hundred more 866 01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:12.199 files released just last week in the UK. And what it's doing is it's 867 01:11:12.199 --> 01:11:15.680 showing to the public that one we are not negligent in our duties. We 868 01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:19.760 have taken the phenomenon seriously for decades. We've looked at it, we've analyzed 869 01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:25.479 it. We'd not drawn any solid conclusions. We don't rule out that these 870 01:11:25.479 --> 01:11:27.960 things could be extraterrestrial. We're all clear about that. They aulsod. We 871 01:11:28.039 --> 01:11:30.680 do not rule out that they could be alien, but we've not got any 872 01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:32.640 direct proof of it. They say, so, look, we're not covering 873 01:11:32.720 --> 01:11:36.279 up because here are filed. So we've released these thousands of five too, 874 01:11:36.279 --> 01:11:39.840 So you can't accuse us of being involved in a cover up, and you 875 01:11:39.880 --> 01:11:43.920 can't accuse us of being competent or negligent. So it kind of covers their 876 01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:47.520 back. So you know, if stuff were to happen tomorrow in a disclosure 877 01:11:47.920 --> 01:11:54.079 disclosure style, then the UK government would be in a fairly respectable position. 878 01:11:54.119 --> 01:11:57.000 They could say, gosh, isn't this a surprise? We were wrong, 879 01:11:57.079 --> 01:12:00.680 but at least we weren't complicitly in a cover up. Where and then I 880 01:12:00.720 --> 01:12:04.039 think you said for many of the many of the other governments, the US 881 01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:10.119 government is is well that. I think their total silence on the subject is 882 01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:15.239 rather telling. You know, they don't say anything on the subject unless they're 883 01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:17.159 you know, unless you put there, you know, twist their arm behind 884 01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:19.279 the back, that they won't say anything. And even then they say the 885 01:12:19.319 --> 01:12:26.399 most mundane things, which is to be expected. Well, they are in 886 01:12:26.439 --> 01:12:29.199 a pickle. What are they? You know, they have to prepare for 887 01:12:29.239 --> 01:12:33.479 these kind of scenarios. So I just think that that things like the Brandon 888 01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:42.880 statements and other disclosures leaks statements along similar lines over the years are part of, 889 01:12:42.920 --> 01:12:48.520 as gad Camera suggests, a controlled disclosure program. How effective that's going 890 01:12:48.560 --> 01:12:51.520 to be, I don't know, but really they don't have many options. 891 01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:55.920 What else can they do? Mm hmm? And I think, you know, 892 01:12:56.359 --> 01:13:00.079 a lot of this is bumbling. Also in that CIA I think is 893 01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:06.439 a little more controlled. They have a little they know better what they're doing. 894 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:11.000 But when it comes to like the Air Force, I mean they're one 895 01:13:11.079 --> 01:13:15.359 agency, the CIA that has a lot of procedures. They have a you 896 01:13:15.359 --> 01:13:18.640 know, a more control over everything that everybody's doing in their group because they're 897 01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:23.359 a smaller groups. It's supposed to like the Air Force, which you have 898 01:13:23.560 --> 01:13:27.800 generals all over the place, and you have you know, colonels and what 899 01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:31.479 have you, and base commanders and you have all of these many many people, 900 01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:40.239 so it's much more uncontrollable, which was a bit of according to some 901 01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:44.960 of the early researchers in this build. You know that the CIA was trying 902 01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:46.920 to take over the UFO subject because of that issue. They were saying, 903 01:13:46.960 --> 01:13:53.399 you know, you guys are too unruly because there's such big organizations, let 904 01:13:53.439 --> 01:13:58.279 alone the government itself which all has these groups, and with all this infighting 905 01:13:58.359 --> 01:14:00.760 and who knows what, there's a lot of people that don't know anything, 906 01:14:01.159 --> 01:14:08.600 no doubt, a lot of even high ranking military officials who I believe, 907 01:14:08.760 --> 01:14:11.560 you know, they don't know anything. Let you do. Yet you do 908 01:14:11.720 --> 01:14:15.079 have some people and in fact, you know, I've heard these stories again 909 01:14:15.079 --> 01:14:20.760 and again where, for instance, one person is working with an intelligence organization 910 01:14:21.760 --> 01:14:28.000 and they're bound to secrecy there while at the same time they're answering to a 911 01:14:28.039 --> 01:14:32.520 superior officer over here who they cannot tell them everything they know or everything they're 912 01:14:32.560 --> 01:14:38.760 working with. It's other intelligence organization. So it's so complicated, and there's 913 01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:43.000 all of this this. I think that's a lot of a bumbling going on 914 01:14:43.279 --> 01:14:47.199 where they're probably I wouldn't imagine, and I don't know what you think that 915 01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:51.000 other than CIA, who have probably has their stuff together pretty well. There 916 01:14:51.039 --> 01:14:55.880 probably isn't some overall plan. There's just too many different groups and it is 917 01:14:55.920 --> 01:15:00.439 too unruly that there's different people trying different things here and there. And I 918 01:15:00.479 --> 01:15:04.079 agree, agree, and I think I agree, and I think that goes 919 01:15:04.079 --> 01:15:10.199 a long way towards accounting for the different strategies that seem to to you know, 920 01:15:11.560 --> 01:15:15.119 whether apparent in in in the in the government's involvement in media over the 921 01:15:15.199 --> 01:15:18.600 years with regards to this subject. You know, one minute, are trying 922 01:15:18.600 --> 01:15:23.560 to acclimate us select to trying to debunk, but you'll find that there's different 923 01:15:23.840 --> 01:15:27.319 branches of the government involved in different films and perhaps they have different agendas. 924 01:15:27.600 --> 01:15:29.880 You know, it's a divisive issue. I always say, you know, 925 01:15:29.960 --> 01:15:32.920 the UFO issue is a divisive issue, especially not only you know, not 926 01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:36.880 only within within the UFI community, but also I expect within the corridors of 927 01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:42.039 power. And we know that going back to the to the to the forties. 928 01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:47.640 You know when when the Air Force Round Project sign it's Socioffore Investigations program, 929 01:15:47.680 --> 01:15:54.239 you know, the original offices there concluded that UFOs were interplanetary, and 930 01:15:54.279 --> 01:15:57.159 then you know you had the sector of the Air Force order, all those 931 01:15:57.840 --> 01:16:00.880 reports burned, and then you had other people suggesting, no, it was 932 01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:03.520 Soviet. People were saying, yeah, it was, it was actual phenomena, 933 01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:08.800 and it's saying it's you know, it's extraterrestrial. It's a phenomenon that 934 01:16:08.880 --> 01:16:15.520 divides opinion, and I expect that that's the case today especially. We have 935 01:16:15.600 --> 01:16:19.399 to consider, as largely points out, that it's something that only a small 936 01:16:19.479 --> 01:16:27.119 handful of people have any real access to because of the compartmentalization of the secrecy. 937 01:16:27.560 --> 01:16:31.800 So it's it's impossible to know what's going on in the cord as of 938 01:16:31.800 --> 01:16:34.359 power with regards to this subject. We can only speculate. I don't think 939 01:16:34.399 --> 01:16:43.520 that speculation is always entirely beneficial, but you know, there are signs and 940 01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:47.600 there are patterns emerging with regards to disclosure efforts, to apparent disclosure efforts, 941 01:16:47.600 --> 01:16:53.600 and we can start to piece together a picture. And and the Chase Brandon 942 01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:57.640 testimony seems to be another another piece in that in that picture, in that 943 01:16:57.680 --> 01:17:00.600 puzzle. And so we'll just see how how it develops over over the next 944 01:17:00.600 --> 01:17:05.560 few weeks or months. I did want to ask you a lot more about 945 01:17:06.279 --> 01:17:11.039 UFOs and entertainment, and we didn't get to that because it got taken up 946 01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:14.000 with Chase, which has just been a lot of interesting stuff, and so 947 01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:16.399 I'll definitely need to have you back very soon to talk about that. But 948 01:17:16.760 --> 01:17:20.239 I did want to touch on one other thing you mentioned which is really interesting, 949 01:17:20.279 --> 01:17:30.279 which is that Chase did consult with Bill Clinton did some consulting with Bill 950 01:17:30.319 --> 01:17:33.239 Clinton, which is interesting because of course we all know that Bill Clinton was 951 01:17:33.279 --> 01:17:40.560 really interested in UFOs, in Roswell in particular, so it makes you wonder 952 01:17:40.600 --> 01:17:45.760 if there was some talk with these two on that topic. And beyond that, 953 01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:48.800 Bill Clinton, most likely because of his interests. The Air Force came 954 01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:51.560 out with these documents saying, oh, no, there's nothing to it. 955 01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:55.840 Of course, we're familiar with these big case studies that they put out, 956 01:17:56.319 --> 01:18:00.600 and Clinton has since said that he pretty much buys it that you know, 957 01:18:00.640 --> 01:18:04.079 they told me there's nothing to it, so there's nothing to it. Always 958 01:18:04.079 --> 01:18:11.439 with that caveat though that you know that that someone could be holding secrets from 959 01:18:11.479 --> 01:18:15.840 me. Still yeah, but yeah, Clinton, Clinton's the same, He 960 01:18:15.880 --> 01:18:19.079 always sticks to that line. He has to obviously maintain the official position that 961 01:18:19.560 --> 01:18:24.479 it's that it wasn't alien but he always has to say, has that caveat 962 01:18:24.479 --> 01:18:27.439 where he says, but I don't know what people are beholding from me. 963 01:18:27.880 --> 01:18:30.600 People don't tell me everything. And he also occasionally adds that you know, 964 01:18:30.600 --> 01:18:34.119 obviously it's probably life in the universe that he might one day find it, 965 01:18:34.159 --> 01:18:38.800 So he always dropped in the hints. I mean, his his position on 966 01:18:38.800 --> 01:18:44.399 the subject is very clear. So that's interesting itself. But one last thing 967 01:18:44.399 --> 01:18:46.359 I'll add quickly on the Chase Planet thing is is Grant said it before, 968 01:18:46.359 --> 01:18:53.319 but I'd like to clarify as well that his bop his Roswell box story where 969 01:18:53.359 --> 01:18:57.680 he claims to have seen his box containing materials and files in the Hi C 970 01:18:58.479 --> 01:19:02.079 I don't buy that for a minute. I think that's a concoction, which 971 01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:06.720 isn't to say that the essence of what he's said isn't true at Roswell as 972 01:19:06.720 --> 01:19:11.279 it was extra trustal, but I don't buy how he came across this material 973 01:19:11.479 --> 01:19:15.479 for a minute. It's not remotely plausible that you would have all of this 974 01:19:15.600 --> 01:19:23.920 material in a relatively low security location and all together in one box. You 975 01:19:23.960 --> 01:19:27.199 know, it would be compartmentalized, it wouldn't be that accessible, it wouldn't 976 01:19:27.199 --> 01:19:32.000 be it wouldn't be labeled Roswell, so it would probably have a numerical numerical 977 01:19:32.399 --> 01:19:38.800 identification. And you know it's he's using that as a device. It's a 978 01:19:38.840 --> 01:19:43.119 storytelling device. It's it's you. If Bundling genuinely does have not had the 979 01:19:43.119 --> 01:19:46.159 first time knowledge of Roswell or second Halund knowledge of Boswell, then it will 980 01:19:46.199 --> 01:19:50.560 have probably been amassed over several decades through conversations with people here and there in 981 01:19:50.680 --> 01:19:55.640 CIA at various levels. And maybe he's seen some documentation in this facility of 982 01:19:55.720 --> 01:19:59.119 that facility, but he can't talk about that because that is classes like that 983 01:19:59.159 --> 01:20:02.000 would be breaching us securities, that would be implicating other people. So what 984 01:20:02.039 --> 01:20:06.319 he can do is he can condense all of that information into this neat little 985 01:20:06.359 --> 01:20:10.279 story where he saw this was well boxing. It's all contained, no, 986 01:20:10.399 --> 01:20:13.640 So it's a storytelling devices. It's just a neat way to deliver this core 987 01:20:13.720 --> 01:20:16.640 truth to the public in a way that doesn't incriminate anyone, right and following 988 01:20:16.680 --> 01:20:20.920 that, it's almost also a signal to anybody really in it who has been 989 01:20:20.960 --> 01:20:25.920 in the CIA, who's been in this collection of books, which is what 990 01:20:26.039 --> 01:20:31.680 this historical area seems to be that they would know that that part of his 991 01:20:31.880 --> 01:20:36.520 story is not accurate, so they would know that this is something else going 992 01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:44.439 on. Yeah, really interesting. Yeah, And my final it's very it's 993 01:20:44.520 --> 01:20:47.119 very it's very well thought out, very well, as is everything, as 994 01:20:47.159 --> 01:20:51.159 is everything that Chase Brandon do. My final question would be, uh, 995 01:20:51.800 --> 01:20:57.880 just a perception. It's difference in perception from the United States to the UK. 996 01:20:58.399 --> 01:21:00.399 I mean, how does the UK interact to all of this material? 997 01:21:00.600 --> 01:21:03.600 Is you know, of course you see the Sun out there with some pretty 998 01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:09.319 wild staff. Daily Mail's kind of the same thing. But you do see 999 01:21:09.319 --> 01:21:14.960 stories in Telegraph and things like this rarely these days in the Guardian it seems, 1000 01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:17.399 which they used to cover a lot more stories. But how does the 1001 01:21:17.479 --> 01:21:24.279 UK in general, you think, take this stuff? How does the UK 1002 01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:29.520 news media or how does the UK publish a bo back to it? The 1003 01:21:29.600 --> 01:21:33.840 news media has in the last few years started to treat the subject a bit 1004 01:21:33.880 --> 01:21:40.000 more seriously, it has to be said, oftent. In terms of broadsheets, 1005 01:21:40.079 --> 01:21:45.840 the Telegraph is by far the best newspaper for serious reporting on UFOs. 1006 01:21:46.479 --> 01:21:53.920 They they you know, they consistently report on all of the UFO file file 1007 01:21:54.000 --> 01:22:00.479 releases. They report on UFO sightings and incidents and testimonies, and they more 1008 01:22:00.520 --> 01:22:03.640 often than not do it very you know, you know, could have straight 1009 01:22:03.640 --> 01:22:09.279 on. They don't. They don't couch it in silly language, and it's 1010 01:22:09.319 --> 01:22:13.880 it's straight on, it's to the point and it's respectful. That's something that's 1011 01:22:13.960 --> 01:22:16.680 quite interesting I find. And the Telegraph is the best selling broadsheet in the 1012 01:22:16.760 --> 01:22:23.359 UK. The Sun, I mean, the Sun will always go after UFOs 1013 01:22:23.359 --> 01:22:26.239 that they'll feature anything with your phos is it because they know it sells. 1014 01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:31.000 But it's problematic with the tabloids because anytime the word UFO appears in a tabloid, 1015 01:22:31.239 --> 01:22:35.039 it de regimizes as the subject, just simply through its association with the 1016 01:22:35.079 --> 01:22:39.239 with the with the you know, with the tabloid, with the trash and 1017 01:22:39.319 --> 01:22:43.720 press. So regardless of how seriously it's reported in that paper, which is 1018 01:22:43.720 --> 01:22:47.520 not usually not very people will just come away with the impression it's just another 1019 01:22:47.600 --> 01:22:50.800 Sun Sun's story and it's all Monson's. It's you know, big fort eight, 1020 01:22:50.880 --> 01:22:57.840 my baby touches us, you know, and so so so the media 1021 01:22:58.720 --> 01:23:01.680 are covering it more than they have done in a long time. There is 1022 01:23:01.760 --> 01:23:06.760 earlier a week goes by now that one of the newspapers, broadsho tabloids will 1023 01:23:06.760 --> 01:23:11.680 not feature at the UFO story, and often they'll be several a week, 1024 01:23:12.399 --> 01:23:15.399 so it's there the public are fully aware of it. I think that there 1025 01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:21.399 is people starting to treat the subject more seriously, both in the news media. 1026 01:23:21.399 --> 01:23:27.359 I'm just out on the street, people are i think quite accepting the 1027 01:23:27.359 --> 01:23:31.920 fact that there are and identified flying objects, and just because of what we've 1028 01:23:31.920 --> 01:23:40.159 been seeing in terms of scientific discoveries lately and announcements, I think that more 1029 01:23:40.199 --> 01:23:43.000 and more people are starting to get used to the idea that we're not the 1030 01:23:43.039 --> 01:23:45.520 only ones in the universe. Regardless of the UFOs take those out of the 1031 01:23:45.520 --> 01:23:48.159 equation. People are starting to think, well, perhaps we're not alone in 1032 01:23:48.199 --> 01:23:51.680 the universe. After all, we're told now that there's at least one planet 1033 01:23:51.720 --> 01:23:56.039 for every star in the galaxy, so you know, one hundreds of billions 1034 01:23:56.079 --> 01:24:00.760 of planets in our galaxy alone. It starts I think it really seem inconceivable 1035 01:24:00.800 --> 01:24:03.920 that we could be alone, and of course that the effect area that people 1036 01:24:03.920 --> 01:24:08.039 start to think, well, maybe UFOs could be alien after all. You 1037 01:24:08.079 --> 01:24:11.479 know, if we're definitely not alone, then maybe we should start looking at 1038 01:24:11.479 --> 01:24:14.960 this more seriously. So yeah, it's much the same as everywhere. I 1039 01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:18.239 think there's probably a greater percentage slightly of people who would be completely dismissive of 1040 01:24:18.279 --> 01:24:24.960 the subject, but there is a large percentage as well who treated seriously and 1041 01:24:25.039 --> 01:24:30.439 who are very open minded. And the press coverage obviously, you know mid 1042 01:24:30.520 --> 01:24:33.680 my season, the whole other conversation. But the press, you know, 1043 01:24:33.720 --> 01:24:39.840 the press can report what it's allowed on the subject. You know, if 1044 01:24:39.840 --> 01:24:42.039 I, for example, wanted to well, you know, I say, 1045 01:24:42.159 --> 01:24:48.239 I submitted my article on Brandon to which are around the sixth of July to 1046 01:24:49.079 --> 01:24:53.840 I mean about twenty newspapers in the US and UK and Canada, and not 1047 01:24:53.960 --> 01:24:57.079 one of them wanted it. Even the Roswell Daily Record turned it down. 1048 01:24:57.840 --> 01:25:01.920 And I offered them for free in person, like the so we don't so 1049 01:25:01.960 --> 01:25:05.760 we don't even want pain, and they didn't even want it. And you 1050 01:25:05.800 --> 01:25:10.000 know, this is the this is the newspaper that broke the story. This 1051 01:25:10.039 --> 01:25:14.520 is on the sixty pis anniversary. And so it's a subject that that most 1052 01:25:14.520 --> 01:25:17.760 people, regardless of government interference in the news media, most people won't touch 1053 01:25:17.760 --> 01:25:20.479 at the barge pole anyway, because they just know how to contextualize it, 1054 01:25:20.840 --> 01:25:24.960 especially if you're treating it seriously. That if I were to have written the 1055 01:25:25.000 --> 01:25:29.039 story very in a very choky fashion, they'd have probably accepted it. But 1056 01:25:29.199 --> 01:25:30.600 when you treat it seriously, they don't really know what to make of it, 1057 01:25:30.760 --> 01:25:33.039 and they think, maybe this is a bit risky, or maybe it's 1058 01:25:33.119 --> 01:25:38.640 just seems I don't know, people aren't going to like this and or respond 1059 01:25:38.680 --> 01:25:40.640 to it in the right way, so they just leave it. They don't 1060 01:25:40.640 --> 01:25:43.439 really really know what to do it or where to place it. And that's 1061 01:25:43.479 --> 01:25:46.600 the problem that you know that we've had the media for decades. I do 1062 01:25:46.640 --> 01:25:51.359 think it's gradually getting better, but there's still a great deal that needs to 1063 01:25:51.359 --> 01:25:56.039 be done. Ultimately, there can never be anything really explosive on the subject. 1064 01:25:56.079 --> 01:26:00.199 Are really insightful, shall we so? In terms of analysis, because 1065 01:26:01.199 --> 01:26:05.760 there are type points within the news media as there are in Hollywood. You 1066 01:26:05.800 --> 01:26:12.720 do have government influence in these institutions, as Carl Bernstein documented floly with the 1067 01:26:12.920 --> 01:26:17.279 CIA in the news media in America in the seventies, and that was from 1068 01:26:17.279 --> 01:26:21.319 the fifty through to the seventies. It was completely infiltrated by the Central Intelligence 1069 01:26:21.319 --> 01:26:29.039 Agency. Urgency had four hundred journalists looking for every branch of American news media. 1070 01:26:29.640 --> 01:26:31.399 All right, well, thank you so much for being on Robbie. 1071 01:26:31.479 --> 01:26:38.479 It's great to talk to you. I love the website Silverscreensaucers dot com and 1072 01:26:38.600 --> 01:26:42.199 of course everybody can see the link, and I've been reposting a couple of 1073 01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:45.279 your stories that you've offered, and so people can go to my website and 1074 01:26:45.439 --> 01:26:50.760 have links back to your site there also. But it's been great talking to 1075 01:26:50.840 --> 01:26:56.439 you, and really you this has been so insightful. You've really changed. 1076 01:26:57.239 --> 01:27:02.800 You've made this Brandon thing much more complicated for me. I'm glad to hear 1077 01:27:02.840 --> 01:27:06.119 it. Well, thanks very much having me on the show. And yeah, 1078 01:27:06.119 --> 01:27:11.600 I hope to talk to you again in the future. It is always 1079 01:27:11.680 --> 01:27:17.680 so much fun to do an intercontinental interview with someone way out there. Just 1080 01:27:17.720 --> 01:27:24.760 the technology is so cool. Anyway, great to talk to Robbie. And 1081 01:27:24.840 --> 01:27:31.079 the website it's Silverscreensaucers dot blogspot dot com. You can find his site by 1082 01:27:31.239 --> 01:27:39.319 either googling silver screen Saucers, going to Silverscreensaucers dot bogspot dot com, or 1083 01:27:39.359 --> 01:27:43.880 you could go to ufodaily news dot com and there's some stories there that he 1084 01:27:44.039 --> 01:27:48.239 has posted and there are links back to him there. I just posted his 1085 01:27:48.359 --> 01:27:54.520 story that he posted today on Facebook and on Twitter, so check it out. 1086 01:27:54.600 --> 01:27:58.199 And of course the movies are so much fun you can imagine, and 1087 01:27:58.319 --> 01:28:02.439 if you're into entertainment and movie and UFOs, then you're gonna love his website. 1088 01:28:02.520 --> 01:28:06.840 And I'm so excited about his future projects and definitely need to have a 1089 01:28:06.880 --> 01:28:12.000 mom to talk more about UFOs in Hollywood because we talk so much about Chase 1090 01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:15.680 because it's such an interesting story. Anyway, it was great to have him 1091 01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:21.520 on. Thank you, Robbie. I forgot to mention that I was on 1092 01:28:21.680 --> 01:28:27.159 Chasing UFOs. Well I did mention that before, but the episode came out 1093 01:28:27.800 --> 01:28:32.159 and there wasn't much of me in the show. But that's okay, and 1094 01:28:32.239 --> 01:28:35.000 it is kind of funny because people keep back to me about you know, 1095 01:28:35.119 --> 01:28:39.640 the if you saw the show, there was a Chinese lantern they got and 1096 01:28:39.680 --> 01:28:43.000 they played it up like everybody was freaking out and wondering what it was. 1097 01:28:43.079 --> 01:28:47.520 And actually it was quick. Somebody saw the red light. We flipped the 1098 01:28:47.560 --> 01:28:51.479 camera could see it was a Chinese lantern. Done deal. So all of 1099 01:28:51.520 --> 01:28:58.880 that getting excited was really these guys we saw the military dropping some flares, 1100 01:28:58.880 --> 01:29:00.560 and that's what they were getting all excited about. That's why at one point 1101 01:29:00.640 --> 01:29:03.800 James goes, look there's another one, you know, and of course there's 1102 01:29:03.840 --> 01:29:09.960 only one Chinese lantern, so that part kind of didn't fit completely. So 1103 01:29:10.039 --> 01:29:13.800 that's how that all went down. But it was kind of cool because we 1104 01:29:13.800 --> 01:29:16.520 did see a lot of jets and stuff in that camera they had was incredible. 1105 01:29:17.039 --> 01:29:20.159 But Jason and I got cut. They didn't even use one line from 1106 01:29:20.199 --> 01:29:23.600 Jason. I don't know if they even showed his face. Well they did, 1107 01:29:23.600 --> 01:29:27.039 I guess when we were outside of the car, but that's about it 1108 01:29:27.159 --> 01:29:33.000 anyway. Thank you so much for joining me at UFO Think Tank Radio. 1109 01:29:33.159 --> 01:29:38.640 Be sure to visit ufodaily news dot com go cash in on the twenty five 1110 01:29:38.680 --> 01:29:45.239 percent off at the Cosmic Exploration Conference. It's going to be absolutely amazing and 1111 01:29:45.399 --> 01:29:49.279 you all have a wonderful evening. I will talk to you next week. 1112 01:29:49.520 --> 01:29:58.239 People enjoy my Clothes, music, Island Maneuvers from Tours Minutes, Audio Smooth, 1113 01:29:58.359 --> 01:30:40.680 U Joes, Yes,