WEBVTT

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This is ww Superstar Drew McIntire and
you're listening to the WWE podcast show,

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the one that Everybody wants me three
sixty and says, just rust your ass

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is my You're gonna acknowledge me?
Hey, what's going on? Guys?

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And welcome back to WWE Retro on
the WWE Podcast on this Friday, July

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twenty feet. As obviously, I
wasn't here last week. Life got the

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best of me and I didn't have
enough time to come up on here and

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record. But I am back this
week, and I am back to talk

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about what I previewed on the weekend
review or not that we can review the

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currency of WWE with Matt and that
is Sean Michaels. He'll turn in two

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thousand and five. He'll turn that
last only a matter of weeks and one

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that was a rarity for Shawn Michaels
in his career post two thousand and two,

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when he returned to the company after
taking a four and a half years

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off. Giver take and I did
cover HBK versus Hulk Hogan when this show

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was rivalries, but I wanted to
focus in more on the impact it had

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for Shawn Michaels specifically now Shawn Michaels, obviously in his first round with the

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company was predominantly a heel when he
turned heel on Marginetti, breaking up the

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Rockers, when he was the head
of Degeneration X, very much a heel,

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and when he returned in two thousand
and two, obviously in real life

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he became a born again Christian and
coming back as a legacy star, a

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guy that the fans just appreciated.
He cemented himself as a baby face and

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the top baby face on Monday Night
Raw, but by the time two thousand

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and five came around, he didn't
need to continue to be the top baby

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face on Raw. From two thousand
and two to late two thousand and four,

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he kind of always had to be. Like you had stintants of Kevin

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Nash Or Booker t Scott Steiner Goldberg
had a decent run as the top baby

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face on Monday Night Raw, Chris
Beno of course in OH four, winning

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the Rumble, coming over to Monday
Night Raw, and winning the World Championship

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at Russellming at twenty. But the
constant was always Sean Michaels. He was

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the guy that WWE could always go
back to and plug and play as the

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top baby face on Monday and Night
Raw, the typical foe for Triple Age,

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a guy that you always knew what
you were going to get. But

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by the time two thousand and five
came around, it really was a changing

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of the guard for w W.
We were moving on from the Ruthless Aggression

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era. We were still in it, but we were arting to see the

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light at the end of the tunnel, but none in a good way.

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Right. Ruthless Aggression was an amazing
era for WWE, but you were starting

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to look past the curd Angles and
the Triple H's and the Shawn Michaels and

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the Undertakers as who would be the
next faces of the company, The Batistas,

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the Randy Orton's, the Bobby Lashley's. At this point in time,

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he was just coming up on SmackDown
and obviously John Cena wrestling at twenty one

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rolls around. Batista wins the World
Heavyweight Championship. John Cena wins WWE Championship

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and we have our top two baby
faces in the company. Batista goes to

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SmackDown, John Cena comes to Raw
and all of a sudden, we have

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a brand new, top tier baby
face on Monday at Raw for the foreseeable

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future. Now, this wasn't something
that would push Shawn Michaels to the wayside.

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He still had at least another four
years in him of being a top

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tier superstar at the company, and
obviously he would go on to Long Degeneration

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X have his historic back to back
wrestling matches with the Undertaker. Just because

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you now had a top tier baby
face on Monday Night Raw in John Cena,

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a guy who was entering his prime, someone who would become the face

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of the company for the following decade, you still had a lot of runway

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left, or a decent amount of
runway left with Shawn Michaels as a baby

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face, but in the immediate future. It allowed WWE to do something that

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they weren't able to do beforehand.
And I don't think that they could have

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afforded to you Shawn Michaels as a
heel beforehand before this, because they were

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missing those top tier baby faces.
Austin was gone, the Rock was gone,

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Undertaker was on SmackDown. Bobby Lashley
or not Bobby Lashley, brock Lesner

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was supposed to be that guy,
but he quickly became better used as a

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heel and then walked away from the
company in early two thousand and four.

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So wwe really didn't have the ability
to you Shawn Michaels as anything other than

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a baby phase. Like I said, you had Chris Benwall, you had

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I guess Eddie Guerrero as well,
but he turned hell in two thousand and

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five two with Ray Musteo like,
you could not afford to not have Shawn

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Michaels as a baby phase. He
was that one constant guy up until John

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cen has showed up in June to
two thousand and five. Something else that

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started happening in the center of two
thousand and five was Hulk Hogan returning to

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WWE in an in ring capacity for
the first time in over two years,

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something that we had not seen Hogan
do pretty much since his program with Vince

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McMahon that culminated at Wrestling in nineteen. In two thousand and three, and

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Hogan and Michaels being two of the
greatest performers and wrestlers in the history of

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the business, we're sure to cross
pass in some capacity, and one would

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assume, and we first saw them
crossing paths as tag team partners, tagging

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them in a raw A very you
for excite a lot of way for a

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lot of fans, something that we
would have only thought was possible in a

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dream match setting. But this was
until we had a version of Sean Michael's

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Present itself that we had not seen
since nineteen ninety eight. I still can't

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plays crying Me and Hunting sing the
same on the part of Jo. They

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want to get the right out there, but we didn't even something up to

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get it. We can't go everything. I won't want you take you she

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comes, she said, get to
get your money, and it was like,

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so, you know, we always
wondered what a heel Shawn Michaels would

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be like because we hadn't seen it
in the Ruthless Aggression era. And when

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I say we, I kind of
mean in the sense of a a new

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age fan at this point in time, because if you were a fan back

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in the Attitude are you knew this
version Shawn Michaels. But in the Ruthless

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Aggression era, someone who started watching
and let's say the tail tale tail end

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of the Attitude era, like myself, you only knew Shawn Michaels as a

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baby face. You only knew Shawn
Michaels as someone who was a fan favorite

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and someone who always fought for the
site the side of good. But seeing

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him kick Hogan's head off, I
would have nowhere. And to be honest,

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just one thing I want to say. We always say RKO out of

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nowhere, but I think the sweetch
In music was the actual move that came

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out of nowhere, and in a
lot of ways was more out of nowhere

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than the RKO ever was. Like
I remember him kicking Triple h in the

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head at the beginning of their triple
threat match with c and a Survivor series.

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The entire like gimmick of his build
to John Cena against fighting John Cena

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at WrestleMania twenty three was when would
he snap and when would he finally kick

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seeing his head off? And I
just found the way that Michaels was able

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to deliver that sweet him music quite
literally out of nowhere was something we had

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never seen before, and continued,
I've never seen Orton is a close second

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with the Archao, but the sweet
Shim music is just something something special.

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The next part about this was seeing
how would Shawn Michaels build his character as

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a heel. How were we supposed
to hate Sean Michaels after loving the guy

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for three years, after just cheering
the guy and cheering him on when he

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was the World heavyweight champion, him
cheering him on and his multiple main event

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matches against Triple h and cheering him
on in his classic against Curt Angel that

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very same year at wrestleming A twenty
one. Well, one of the first

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things we got to see Shawn Michaels
display himself as a heel was when he

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went on Larry Fling and had the
chance to mock Haul Cogan um in which

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the whole thing was satire. Right
if Larry Fling, Larry King, if

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you guys have been watching wrestling for
long enough, you know what that is.

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But Shawn Michael's mocking Haul Hogan,
that was some aside to Shawn Michael's

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we had not seen, probably since
his degeneration. Next days, ladies and

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gentlemen, tonight, Oh ware gonna
join me tonight? Oh You'll be squaring

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off against Shawn Michaels. I saw
a slam. Now that's Sean Michaels.

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He's a tough guy, isn't he. We're gon be telling as something.

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Brother. This is a dream match, brother, one that I've always dreamed

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up. Brother, But I did
news story of Cobby a hundred and two

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years old. Brother. But I
tell him I said a little biting at

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summer Slam and every day at the
home, sir way, so that he's

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not a dead brother, He's a
little at the more his time. Let

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me ask you a question, hockey, are you up? Bad guy?

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You run? Good guy? What
lawn camber? Brother, I'm a great

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guy. Oh when that camera goes
off. Brother, Oh, it's a

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different story. Brother, he ho
brother, Brother, Brother, Brother,

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Brother, he's seeing Brother. Shaun
MICUs is honestly an amazing athlete. Brother,

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but he never quite made it to
the upper tier. Brother. You

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see, after I walked out of
the w W, Brother, I decided

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to go make it even more money
somewhere else. Brother. They gave the

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ball to Shawn Michels, but he
couldn't quite get the job done. You

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see, he's got more important things
on his mind that becoming the greatest sir

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that's ever stepped into the ring.
Brother. They more concerned about going out

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there each and every night brother and
stealing the show. Brother, he works

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just as hard and Dald Quick Michigan
brother as he does and Masster Square Garden

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Brother, see the holds your brother, he's got a philosophy. Brother.

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Once so people are in the building. Brother, you've already got there,

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actuating from bucking Brother. But Sean
Michael's brother. He broadly go out there

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and nearly kill himself every night.
Brother, just to make sure those people

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get their money's work. Brother,
Let's you see something. He's not gonna

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It's not gonna matter, Brother,
because you're the lean Jean Brother. What

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the holiest Larry King, Larry King
whatever, Larry, I'm still a ticket

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here. Brother, Who what's you're
gonna do? Brother? When the Holster

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comes at too so much? That's
so much, Larry, Brother, who're

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gonna hold up? Brother? You
want me for the first time in history?

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Brother, for the first time.
Brother was the last time, Brother,

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the only time Brother Bell range Brother. Oh oh, brother did get

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kid? Yeah, God Gran grand
God grand brother. Brother, Brother,

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I got my brother, brother brother
the last m hm oh, Cogan,

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you've got your reality show. Hogan
knows best. What are you going to

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do in reality? Kids? So
there was a lot of truth to that

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promo of Shawn Michaels, because yes
it was comedy base, yes it was

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satire. Yes it was him mocking
Hulk Cogan, but the whole thing of

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the camera's going off and him not
caring if it's Balcreek Michigan or you know

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what Sean Michaels does as opposed to
what Hogan does. I feel like there's

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a lot of randomosity. And you've
heard the rumors and the stories about how

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Sean Michaels really didn't enjoy working with
Hulk Hogan and how they were supposed to

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have back to back matches, each
of them getting a victory or Hulk Cogan

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changing the creative you know, the
infamous thing that doesn't work for me,

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brother, which which is what he
did in at WCW, and in their

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match at SummerSlam, you saw Sean
Michael's really kind of make a mockery of

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Hulk Cogan over selling the you know
what out of all of Hogan's moves.

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So you had a heeled promo of
Shawn Michaels, but one that was still

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kind of endearing and one that had
a lot of truth to it. So

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there still was a reason to cheer
Shawn Michaels. And there still was a

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reason to back Shawn Michaels in this
match, That was until he came to

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Montreal, Quebec, Canada. And
obviously we know all the reasons as to

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why Shawn Michaels would not be welcome
at the Bell Center in Montreal, And

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yours truly was in the building for
Shawn Michael's promo on My Night Raw in

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two thousand and five in Montreal,
and I gotta tell you, if he

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wasn't over as a heel beforehand,
he certainly was over as a heel by

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the time he was done with Montreal. Six down the same, set down

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my ship and drinking us, and
he prepared to me the sun is clan,

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I'm get my real woman, two
rocks during the key more and the

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coach get up, get the same
maybe to drinking back. What's you away

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from home? My sway, myny
So I'm just just up it there.

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First off is can you believe the
booing like you became accustomed to the immediate

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pop, the explosion of cheers whenever
Sean Michael's music would hit, and just

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hearing the raining down of booze onto
him and I was there live. I

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was eleven or twelve years old.
I was there live and it was something

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to behold. It was the loudest
booing I'd ever heard, and that was

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him just making his way into the
building. That was it. Now wait

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until he actually started cutting his promo
and kind m hm mm hm oh.

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Can I hate this, lady?
Can I'm gonna game ocding rounding the bag.

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I holidan Holida. I'm no singer, but what I am it's a

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show stop by. I han't liar
lol on that the I come other wwe

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you. It's truly the heart break
kid Sean Michael Kogan that SummerSlam. I

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promise no mane, I guaranteed,
I guarantee you summer. I will give

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you fans something to remember. Course
all are you here in Montreal? I'm

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so this is the first thing is
that this was a promo originally about Haul

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Cogan, right, he was building
his match to Hogan. But as he

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alluded to, he has a lot
of history in Montreal with Bret Hart.

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Montreal screw job. They were chanting, I was chanting you screwed Brett.

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So it was only a matter of
time before Shawn Michaels would shift it over

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to Bret Hart and eventually would start
talking about Bret Hart and would eventually start

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egging on the crowd about Bret Hart, and then this would result in arguably

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the biggest ruse. I don't know
if what would you want to call it,

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but one of the biggest heel moments
probably in the history of the business.

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If I had, if I do
say so myself, Yes, miserable,

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you want right, You're not gonna
get right because I screwed right landed

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in once and I'm do it again. We're right, dad, man hunt

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that he guts. And he walked
down night all tonight in the list ring

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and looked me eye an eye like
a man. I'd say it, man,

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I'll screwed Joe once. Now I'll
screw you like that because rushed day

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m y. So he fakes,
he fakes Bret Hart's return and then immediately

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starts back on his usual thing and
it just back on the Hull Hogan banter.

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And this was this was really something
that we hadn't really been accustomed to

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with Shawn Michaels. He would then
he did it with Hulk Hogan's theme song

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again and it was just in all
in all, we were not used to

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this version of Shawn Michaels. We
really were not. And as the promos

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started going on like this was a
promolo that lasted almost fifteen minutes to open

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the show. So then when the
promo kept going on and on, we

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just kept seeing a side of Shawn
Michaels that we were not used to in

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any capacity. And beyond the Brett
hart stuff, beyond the Hull Cogan stuff,

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it was just a Shawn Michaels that
we had no idea was even living

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inside him at this point in time. And honestly it was kind of refreshing.

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Are superstar his hands about girls and
the sullar Michaels would say goodbye.

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Some Michaels had to go anywhere.
Now, I personally I don't and ain't

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gonna sit there right now. I
tell a good shot he's gonna get comfortable,

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00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:25.759
even feel they can get all that. Well, he nothing be put

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on him so far? Why should
he start that? Now you understand who's

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running this show. I'll continue whole
Coogan. The same thing I despised about

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you is what I despised about Bret
Harten. You student or some moral fiber

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that in your real life did not
exist. Ye you student judgments of me

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00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:04.400
and you whole Cogan, Well you
stand or justifying anything. There isn't a

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00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:15.680
realistic boting in your body. I'll
go in and you're the biggest star in

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00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:26.559
WWE history and it's Summer Slar.
I want you to bring your big star.

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00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:32.240
I want you to wear your baa. I want you to have your

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00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:56.680
sun licens on and your chindelli my
language. Do your teacher toooning the same

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00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:11.640
talking you do. Yeah, every
one of you Montreal Canadian men do nothing

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00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:38.680
but stand there and talking wild walk
its goge. That's summer Slam. You're

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00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:48.680
one move from your star being snuffed
out. You don't believe me, just

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00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:57.519
ask run the hip man partner.
There's a constant reverse like showing might listen

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but like six days so Sean Michaels
really gets under the fans the skin.

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00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:14.200
In Montreal, they chant shut the
bleep up. You guys probably heard that

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00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:18.119
through the audio. But you go
on to lose against Hulkogan, as we

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00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:23.440
know, overselling in hilarious fashion,
and it would be a short lived heel

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00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:27.160
turn about five or six weeks for
Shawn Michaels, but a side of him

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that we would never see again and
had only seen it before in nineteen ninety

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eight. So it was a cool
wrinkle in Shawn Michael's post two thousand career

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in WWE, and I think in
a lot of ways was something that we

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00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:47.880
maybe should have seen more of.
But obviously Sean Michaels really found his home

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as a baby face, but always
had that scummy mentality where even in his

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00:30:53.680 --> 00:31:00.440
program with the Undertaker it kind of
peeked through. Sometimes. It was a

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side to Shawn Michaels that we didn't
get to see as full tilt here against

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Hulk Hogan, and in the summer
of O five it really was the one

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00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:14.440
of the more intriguing version of Sean
Michaels as he went full blown heel.

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Ammy, guys, that's all I
got for you today. I hoped you

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00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.119
enjoyed Shawn Michael's heel turn. As
always, you can get me on Twitter

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00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:22.839
at A to Mark A twenty five. You can get Matt on Twitter at

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00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.279
Wrestling Underscore Audio, or you can
email him each and every week for the

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00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.440
WWE podcast mail Bag. Amy,
guys, enjoy your weekend. I will

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00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:37.359
be talking to you next week.
Thanks for listening to the WWE Podcast.

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00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:41.680
Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite
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00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:48.000
or head to WWE podcast dot com
and for all of these shows add

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00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:53.319
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slash WWE podcast. Until then, we'll

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00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.200
see you next time.

